Not everything is super armored, some things are simple weapons platforms. Example.
The Abrahms MBT. Purpose built to pulverize and shrug off hits.
Since it exists, and is obviously a superior fighting vehicle, why do we have anything else? Because sometimes its too unwieldy. Or too expensive. Rebel forces still weld a 50cal to the back of a Toyota sometimes. Why? Why don't they just make an Abrahms? Sometimes you don't have access to everything you might want. Sometimes you just make do. Even if its not optimal for your protection. Sometimes survivability is less of a concern than the capacity for sheer destruction.
If they put more than a cage or roll bars, I will probably not get it, unless it can somehow still maintain the homage feel. Otherwise,that would kill the homage tie for me, and that is the only reason I am even thinking of getting it.
Edit:
Totally agree with you HisDivineShadow. That, and sometimes you want manueverability with some weapon systems that would otherwise be unwieldly. Also, tactically speaking, terrain also changes how one thinks about heavy support weaponry. The Abrahms is amazing when given open ground to play on. Put it in a city, get it clogged in a street, and now it is a sitting duck. The treads are okay in a desert setting, but have it go too far out, and it will sink like a stone in soft sand.
In Chad, there was a tank hunting technique of getting two cheapo civilian Toyota pick-ups, putting guys in with anti-tank missiles and "charging" a tank from opposite directions. Since the tank could only swing its turret toward one truck, it got destroyed by the other. Tanks are a lot more expensive than Toyota pick-ups.
Breotan wrote: In Chad, there was a tank hunting technique of getting two cheapo civilian Toyota pick-ups, putting guys in with anti-tank missiles and "charging" a tank from opposite directions. Since the tank could only swing its turret toward one truck, it got destroyed by the other. Tanks are a lot more expensive than Toyota pick-ups.
Bosnia, a Yugo with a British 25 pounder in it. Seen a Volkswagen bug with a 75mm pak (the short barrled WW2 US one) in it once too. The trick there is they're hard to spot until they fire, FIBUA..
Loud'n Raging wrote:You've done it again, and pretty fast at that! The Jailbirds' Mecha has been unlocked and is now available since we passed $360,000!!!
And for those who've expressed concerns about how exposed the pilot is, I'd say a protective force field is not an entirely far-fetched idea...
At $365,000, the Jailbirds' Mascot, Harry the Baby Hippo, has now been unlocked as a Freebie!
And by the way, some have you have asked if they will be able to purchase additional Freebies such as Harry the Hippo.
Indeed, we've heard that there are girlfriends, wives and daughters out there who would be happy to call Harry their own.
So the answer is Yes! Stay tuned.
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What's next
As you know, Irina Vega, Orbital Strike Commander for the Kurganova Shock Troops will become available at $370,000.
We saw somewhere a comment that said (I paraphrase): “It's nice to have a Commander who's actually doing something else other than shooting or yelling at troopers”.
We thought that was pretty cool to have someone notice this, as indeed, it was what we wished to communicate.
In fact, creating the poses for Officers and high-ranking Heroines is always a challenge because you want them looking dynamic while simultaneously standing firm and in control. And that severely limits the posing options...
After Irina, at $375,000, as mentioned earlier, you'll get Free Upgrades for the Jailbird Division, Kurganova and Iron Empire Artillery #1. (Details to be announced.)
And at $380,000, you'll unlock the infamous Lady von Stroheim from the Iron Empire.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who is Lady von Stroheim?
Lady Hilda von Stroheim is a military genius.
But she's also a free spirit who won't take orders from anyone.
When she was still a very young officer, she disobeyed orders many times to save her comrades from destruction and lead them to glorious victories.
Normally, she should have been dishonorably discharged from the army and thrown in jail. But the impact of her military prowess as well as her noble filiation stood in the way.
So Hilda was transferred to a fairly non-active outpost.
Instead of disappearing into oblivion, she used this as an opportunity to train the troops under her command to an elite level. She then took it upon herself to have them crash in the middle of battles without actual marching orders.
And each time, she brought unexpected triumph to the Empire.
The very strict Iron Empire hierarchy had not choice but to eventually consider her as a necessary evil and unofficially affect her to desperate missions and causes.
She is the only Iron Empire Officer without an actual rank, but with incommensurate power.
Your feedback is wanted on the Iron Empire Mascot
Now that we have Harry the Hippo as the Jailbirds' mascot, we are still debating what animal the Iron Empire mascot should be, as we somehow all disagree on this.
We've thought about an Egyptian cat, but this would make for a very tiny miniature. A hyena has also been mentioned and is currently a most-favoured option.
So, what do you think? Please tell us in the Comments section below this update.
And once again, thank you for your amazing support and your continuing word-of-mouth. And have Harry the Hippo bring you a beer or two: you deserve it!
Looks like some pretty sweet stuff. Unfortunately, I'm probably going to have to reduce my pledge, if not withdraw it altogether. (Medical emergency in the family.) Still, following this whole operation with avid interest. I'll still be picking up whatever I can, and looking to make a full Jailbirds/Kurganova army whenever the future permits!
Haven't found sci-fi rules I liked to use em in :( Wondering about deadzone as the scenery looks nice, models look ok but mantic have never really wowed me except the for three werewolves they have coming up
The only way that could have been worse is if you said you loved their Trolls!
Haha well the trolls are cheap, so they're an option if I ever needed them on the cheap The werewolves though in cost to model aint too bad, was going to grab a couple of boxes as stand in trolls as knocking £70 for the skinwolves from forgeworld is a bit too pricey for me
Been suggested that the Iron Empire mascot could be a bear so far from people as fitting, but then I wouldn;t have thought of a hippo for the jailbirds so maybe we will be in for a surprise as the obvious route isn't taken again
Reading through this thread actually makes me ashamed to be a member of this community. Ribbing Raging Heroes because they constantly missed their deadline was a bit of fun and wasn't done in a malicious manner, but my God people... the level of complaining, bitching, whining, super-elite levels of entitlement and general ass-hattery is just appalling.
Now a lot of what Buzz Saw has said is quite correct, especially his point about the way freebies are done and how unlocks have been (mis)handled by the RH team. And, for their part, RH have made a number of mistakes and done poorly on the communications side of things, but the way some of you are going on about it it's like they shot your dog, then resurrected your dog only so they could shoot him again.
I really want most of you to withdraw your pledges and just walk away from this one, and then really think hard about your participation in future Kickstarters because they seem to bring out the absolute worst in this site.
I'm going back in the shadows now. I'll come back when this campaign is over to see the options and amend my pledge.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'll come back when this campaign is over to see the options and amend my pledge.
Isn't this exactly what I suggested people do? I know I suggested this very thing. I know I did. I got my arse bit off for doing it, too.
Still, I'm glad RH weathered the storm of derision that sent their way and made solid adjustments to their "plan". I think it's paying off, too as pledges appear to have started increasing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I really want most of you to withdraw your pledges and just walk away from this one, and then really think hard about your participation in future Kickstarters because they seem to bring out the absolute worst in this site.
Hear, hear. A lot of people are bad and they should feel bad. Not that I care much for the campaign, either.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Reading through this thread actually makes me ashamed to be a member of this community. Ribbing Raging Heroes because they constantly missed their deadline was a bit of fun and wasn't done in a malicious manner, but my God people... the level of complaining, bitching, whining, super-elite levels of entitlement and general ass-hattery is just appalling.
+1.
And RH have adapted after a lot of feedback and after the initial madness they have been updating even more regularly which seemed to be the biggest gripe and still listening and working hard to make sure people are happy.
Hey. It's me again, inquiring about the Paypal payment mode. Could a herald help me inquire (once again) on where exactly RH's priority for Paypal's users are?
It'll be very much appreciated. Thanks
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'll come back when this campaign is over to see the options and amend my pledge.
Isn't this exactly what I suggested people do? I know I suggested this very thing. I know I did. I got my arse bit off for doing it, too.
Still, I'm glad RH weathered the storm of derision that sent their way and made solid adjustments to their "plan". I think it's paying off, too as pledges appear to have started increasing.
We'll miss you, but look forward to seeing your wrap up comments on July 7th!
I suppose we'll have to figure out some way to soldier on without you.
Given that 'the problem' was constructive criticism that never really attacked a specific user while 'the other side' did that a lot AND led to RH making some changes to the campaign, OK!
They made good changes overall to the unlock levels, for a while there I was kicking myself for stepping out of the Secret Weapon KS for this one when most of the heroines I want would not be unlocked any time soon.
I reckon it's going to be a while until we see Wolfenstein or Blondie as stretch goals. They seem to be popular enough to save for a dull moment during the campaign.
Agreed Wolfenstein is the reason I jumped in also. I don't want to bail so being sensible I will wait till the last day if she not released then I will reduce my pledge but if she released I will keep current level.
As one of the larger critics when this started I'm still not 100% happy with how they started the campaign but they are making major strides to fix the earlier issues. And while they may not have opened as many items as they should have on the initial surge they are obviously now using it to keep a steady flow of unlocks.
They adjusted well after their intiial screw-ups and the value is slowly climbing. Still not sure if it's going to be there for people who want primarily troops being that the average discount is around 15.5% for those but we'll see.
And they need to lay out the next few stretches as this is averaging enough per day to hit both of the ones that are left.
Apologies if this has asked (it's a long thread to look through) but have they said when we'll see the first actual sculpts? Would be good to see at least a few before the KS ends.
The do 3D computer model sculpts. The grey renders you see next to the concept art are the 'sculpts'. Those then get 3d printed for the master copy. I'd love to see some of those...
HisDivineShadow wrote: Not everything is super armored, some things are simple weapons platforms. Example.
The Abrahms MBT. Purpose built to pulverize and shrug off hits.
Since it exists, and is obviously a superior fighting vehicle, why do we have anything else? Because sometimes its too unwieldy. Or too expensive. Rebel forces still weld a 50cal to the back of a Toyota sometimes. Why? Why don't they just make an Abrahms? Sometimes you don't have access to everything you might want. Sometimes you just make do. Even if its not optimal for your protection. Sometimes survivability is less of a concern than the capacity for sheer destruction.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just my 2¢
A rocket launcher in a Toyota would be better than this thing, which looks slow as hell. A rocket launcher on FOOT would be better.
I think the criticism against the criticism done here is unfounded, the campaign was heading a downward trend and once the corrections have been made, which to their majority either followed the criticism or exceeded expectations, the campaign went to an upward stable trend.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: A rocket launcher in a Toyota would be better than this thing, which looks slow as hell. A rocket launcher on FOOT would be better.
A single jailbird cannot carry as many launchers/weapons/ammunition as their power loader though.
I think they can carry more than the dead one in the loader
The loader obviously carries more then a single rocket launcher. It would also theoretically manage to fire a machine gun while moving, something you cannot do on foot.
And besides, if the pilot gets killed, who says another can't take her place? They are Jailbirds, after all. Convicts. Pressed into service by the Kurganovs
I think I've managed to get most things in there. I'm missing the freebies and the digital artbook at the moment. The freebies will need to go in so that when they've been given a price we can order more than one. If I've missed anything else just post here and hopefully I'll see it through other people's comments =-)
I think I've managed to get most things in there. I'm missing the freebies and the digital artbook at the moment. The freebies will need to go in so that when they've been given a price we can order more than one. If I've missed anything else just post here and hopefully I'll see it through other people's comments =-)
Awesome - Thank you VERY much for posting that link!
It is going to make tracking and planning all of this a lot easier!
Update #12 · Jun 12, 2013 · 4 comments
As you know, at Raging Heroes, we always try to give you the most possible flexibility and customization options with our miniatures.
We had that in mind when we designed the way the Artillery boxes would work.
This means that the Artillery#1 Free upgrade is quite a rich one. With the flexibility and compatibility of the 3 Artillery boxes per Army, combined with the upcoming Artillery upgrades, you will be able to build many different artillery sets while ending up being able to choose exactly the weapons you want while at the same time having a great variety for your servants.
And in addition to what's included in this upcoming Free Upgrade, please note that you'll be able to customize your Artillery Servants even further by swapping parts between the Servants and the Regular Troops, as most of them will be compatible.
5 new items included in the Artillery#1 Free Upgrade!
As we are moving towards our next Stretch Goal ($375,000!), we can now tell you specifically what the Artillery Box #1 Free Upgrade will include.
This Free Upgrade will apply to the Artillery #1 box for all 3 armies: the Jailbirds, the Kurganova Shock Troops and the Iron Empire.
The Artillery #1 box has been designed to be a high-caliber weapon set.
And with this upcoming upgrade, Artillery #1 will now include an additional weapon's mount, so you'll be able to make it either a Mortar or a High-Caliber Short Cannon.
On top of this additional weapon's mount, you'll also get several additional elements that will allow you to customize the artillery servants. The Free upgrade will also include 2 extra heads, 1 pair of legs in a different pose, and 1 extra pair of arms holding alternative accessories.
By the way, we've updated the Artillery images on the main page to reflect this, as we realized there had been some confusion between Artillery #1, #2, and #3 when we originally created the images.
We've received A LOT of feedback on the Iron Empire mascot. This is very exciting and inspiring. The main question now seems to be: Should this character be sort of cute and tongue-in-cheek like Harry the Hippo and Charlie the war bulldog, or should it be darker, or at least, more serious to fit with the sinister feel of the iron Empire?
Even here at Raging Heroes, we are divided on this, so please don't hesitate to continue sharing your thoughts with us.
As for the animal itself, the hyena seems quite popular, all forms of cats also seem very much in favor, and many of you have talked about birds of prey (eagles, vulture), and we even saw a velociraptor, which we thought was quite a cool idea. But our options are sill wide open...
One-Shot Blondie and a Motor Bike...
When we passed $370,000, Irina Vega from the Kurganova Shock Troops got unlocked!
Once we pass the $375,000 Stretch Goal for the Artillery#1 Free Upgrade, we'll be looking at $380,000 – Lady von Stroheim.
The $390,000 Stretch Goal will be a character whom we know many of you have been waiting for: One-Shot Blondie, the frighteningly accurate Sniper for the Jailbirds.
Blondie was one of the very first characters created for the Toughest Girls of the Galaxy, and she set the tone for a lot of what was to come. So we intend to share with you a bit more about her background and how she came to life in our next update.
Oh, and by the way, just so you know, we are also very close to unveiling the first Motor Bike...
What are we up to?
Until now, we've been very busy addressing the needs of the campaign.
But we would really like to have more time to give you an insider view of how we work at Raging Heroes, what our processes are, how we work on character creation, etc. We would also like to share more info on the character backgrounds and we really do hope we'll have the time to do on a regular basis.
At the same time, we want to focus a fair amount of our time on promoting the campaign even more. We've had an amazing coverage on quite a few blogs and forums, including some specifically dedicated to women gamers, and that made us quite happy to see that many women like our characters and relate to them.
Also, we'll be translating the key points of this Kickstarter campaign in French. If any of you feel like doing something similar in your own language, that would be awesome and if you do, please drop us a note to let us know.
Help us unlock more stuff...
Your pledges and your support are making this campaign a success! And yet, there are still some key medias and social networks we still could crack, or where the buzz on the TGG Kickstarter has some room to grow.
By bringing the information there (if they are places where you are a regular poster), you can help unlock all the minis you want in this KS even faster, as well as increase the number of Freebies and Free Upgrades you can get!
This can really make push this campaign to the next level.
Such places would include, but are not limited to, Reddit, Warseer, Bells of Lost Souls, CMON forums, Heresy Online, Tumbler, Pinterest, Twitter...
If you have other in mind, please suggest them in the Comments below :-)
And of course, if there are news sites (even not game-related) which you think would be a good fit to share new of the Toughest Girls of the Galaxy project, then please don't hesitate to spread the love :-)
And as a quick reminder, here are the unlocked Freebies to date:
I'm confused - the next "free upgrade" stretch goal unlocks different weapon mounts/heads/bits for the artillery box #1.
What's the difference between that and artillery boxes #2/3? The art at least makes them the different boxes look the same. (just with different posing on the crew members)
Schmapdi wrote: I'm confused - the next "free upgrade" stretch goal unlocks different weapon mounts/heads/bits for the artillery box #1.
What's the difference between that and artillery boxes #2/3? The art at least makes them the different boxes look the same. (just with different posing on the crew members)
There seems to be a different crew and a different weapon mounted on the mechanical gun cariage for each of the boxes 1-3:
HisDivineShadow wrote: I wouldn't mind a cage like the obvious inspiriration that is the Aliens loader. But I don't her armored.
No one cries foul @ Guard Sentinels, with the open cockpit. Its lightly armored. That's the concept.
This whole range is drawing on very iconic visual inspiration. Yeah sure we could up armor the mech, but then the homage would be gone.
There is always going to an argument involved in armor. Take the Nolan origin for the Bat suit. We could probably make something like it IRL. But the cost? Soldiers, historically get just enough equipment to win. No more, no less. That's the economics of war.
While I'm not concerned personally, I think the solution is simples. Add a few optional armour plates to the kit, problem solved and they get to sell it to the people who are on the fence as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Trucking right along to unlock little Harry, who better be hauling decent beer.
Another RH response:
Furthermore, on packing, we do extensive quality control, and we are known for packing our minis very carefully to avoid breakage... And that also has a cost...
I hope this helps :-)
This is definitely true and not marketing BS. From my last retail order with them, one of the figures I bought was Skaryaa the Blood Mistress DE. This how she arrived:
This was INSIDE a cardboard box that also had packing peanuts in it.
Infinitely better than "Throw all the figures into a zip lock, then into a padded bag and send it on it's way internationally. it'll be fine!" that some other retailers and KS use.
Looks like some pretty sweet stuff. Unfortunately, I'm probably going to have to reduce my pledge, if not withdraw it altogether. (Medical emergency in the family.)
Oooh nice pledge manager. Colonel has me down for one of everything with $290 worth of minis to allocate still. Not really looking for an army from this so much as fun things to paint and little squads I can use here and there I think.
What I wonder is this: for those of us who don't have the luxury of living near a drop ship store (or even in a country that has one), are they going to tell us "This is all Wave 1 stuff, this is Wave 2 stuff, this is Wave 2016 stuff..."
Looks like some pretty sweet stuff. Unfortunately, I'm probably going to have to reduce my pledge, if not withdraw it altogether. (Medical emergency in the family.)
Hope everything works out alright, Jim.
Thanks. She's totally fine, which is the important thing. She's more important than all the little army men in the world. Now the only concern is finances, and that's uptown problems, so I'm not complaining.
And looks like it is time to unleash the bikes, and more Mechs - that will certainly get the pledges coming in - and get existing backers to increase their pledges.
Yes, I think we can be fairly confident that "the slump*" has been reached, we'll unlock most if not all of the stuff, so seeing a few bikes might be good.
I used the pledge calculator linked above, and so far I have 110$ free of use. I need to be stoked. I'd like to see more renders of the troops.
*In so far as 8K to 17K days can be called a slump. My business would lurv that kind of money.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Yes, I think we can be fairly confident that "the slump*" has been reached, we'll unlock most if not all of the stuff, so seeing a few bikes might be good.
I used the pledge calculator linked above, and so far I have 110$ free of use. I need to be stoked. I'd like to see more renders of the troops.
*In so far as 8K to 17K days can be called a slump. My business would lurv that kind of money.
Too true - good points!
I'm certainly looking forward to eventually getting everything unlocked and seeing if anything not yet hinted at comes to light!
I also wonder if we'll reach the lofty heights necessary for plastic troops?
No matter what, RH will never be the same after July 7th!
Somehow I doubt we'll get to plastic troops with this campaign, as tempting as it sounds. I'm more interested in seeing how long it is going to take for the other locked away characters and HQ models to get unveiled.
Honestly I doubt I'll stay in at this point just because I know how bad my project ADD is and a year out is pretty darn hard to remember what I originally wanted them for or get excited by the idea.
But if they get plastic troops it'll be easier to convince myself it's a good idea
And looks like it is time to unleash the bikes, and more Mechs - that will certainly get the pledges coming in - and get existing backers to increase their pledges.
I'll disagree with you slightly. As I pointed out in some earlier posts, the perception of success and failure in this campaign is uniquely shaped by factors under RH's control. Alarms were sounded because they posted a (vague) "roadmap" of the campaign in the form of many shadowed figures, and because they changed their stretch goal interval to such that it appeared they would need to go well over a million just to unlock what they had previewed with those figures.
Thus, with the changed interval they are really in little danger of not making their roadmap, which seems a reasonable metric for success. But in terms of boosting pledges, having more options seems unlikely to spur more pledges; at a certain point there is only so much pledges will increase their pledges, and how many people are really going to be tempted to pledge based on the concept art of a mech or motorcycle? Unknowable.
What is clear, however, is that this campaign is doing exceptionally well for an "ala cart" style campaign, in the lines of DFG or Bombshell Babes or others, which typically feature relatively little in the way of value added and a much more nebulousness "sweet spot". Considered along those lines, it seems to be doing fine, and indeed the daily numbers are very good indeed (so far as they go, these are yet early days).
For a blockbuster campaign, the simple fact is that TGG simply doesn't have much in the way of added value. The pledge levels are rather opaque (there are still people asking about pledge levels for only heroines, for example), and while there is value added at the LT. level and up, it is currently...
As has been pointed out, by the standards of the really huge campaigns, this is not a great deal of value added at this level of a campaign.
If they want to do blockbuster numbers, the problem does not seem (to me) to lie in the lack of options, but in the lack of added value.
If they don't? Eh, seems to be doing okay I guess.
And no time did I say, or mean to imply, that this blip was indication of any sort of 'failure' - no way!
This one is chugging along just fine, I was just curious as to what could have caused that down blip yesterday.
I would think that with the smaller stretch goals, the additional 'freebies' and the faster unlocks that we would keep going at more or less the rate of the past few days.
Still, again, by any measurement, this one is still VERY successful.
As has been pointed out, by the standards of the really huge campaigns, this is not a great deal of value added at this level of a campaign.
If they want to do blockbuster numbers, the problem does not seem (to me) to lie in the lack of options, but in the lack of added value.
If they don't? Eh, seems to be doing okay I guess.
I think that's spot on. While it's still quite early in the campaign, there's not much value added here. I remember pledging the Bones campaign, and their sweet spot was so "reasonable" that I ended up dumping triple the 'sweet spot' cost on addons... RH and Bones are technically quite different campaigns in terms of what they want to make with our pledged dollars, but in terms of a mess of miniatures they want to produce with no real game tied to it, they are fairly similar too. The major differences is that there's no set "Box O' Stuff" here that you can pledge for that keeps getting more stuff thrown in it. So, it's harder for passers by to see any value added. I kind of like the a la carte nature of this, but part of me wishes they had done Faction Starter sets or something and set the pledges up around multiples of those, THEN had the addons on top of that. That way, as we've seen with other KSs, you get the whole 'we're adding FREE mini's to the faction starter boxes WOOHOO' feeling when you hit those marks. Also, it makes the addons feel like addons, rather than 'oh, goodie, we've unlocked something I wanted at the beginning and have already pledge enough for'. Psychologically, the whole thing would feel different. The early pledgers were already pledging based on projected value (or projected availability of the models they wanted) - I know on day 1 that was my thinking.
But I'm staying in with my Captain pledge and hoping I don't drop too much more than that. I want these minis pretty bad, but I still don't think a la carte works for this as well as faction starters + addons would have done.
Although, as I said also... it's not quite a down blip the sort that Warzone or Thon had. The number still increased.
I'm a little mystified by the "Heroine only" pledge request. Since the Swap Update (#8?) was implemented... it's all just money, and a certain level of money gets you freebies.
As for value added, as Buzzsaw said, the campaign is still relatively young. We get a freebie every... two days? Let's be conservative and say that we'll get 10 freebies. Even if they are the sort of 10$ Heroine slots, that's still 100$. For myself, sitting on an EB Commander (with a bit of leeway too since the supports are meh to me), that's half the value of my pledge added, almost.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I must add, I'm a history major, not a math major. I'm drawing general lines, not precise numbers, here.
Know No Pear wrote: Also, is it possible to pay for freebies if we're not pledge at >Lt. levels?
The latest information seems to be:
Update #11 wrote:And by the way, some have you have asked if they will be able to purchase additional Freebies such as Harry the Hippo.
Indeed, we've heard that there are girlfriends, wives and daughters out there who would be happy to call Harry their own.
So the answer is Yes! Stay tuned.
It's not quite answering your question though. It'd be best to get one of the Heralds to confirm or shoot RH a pm.
I am psyched about Svetlana. She is the first, not super obvious cyborg from the Kurganovas that has gotten my interest. If she was a paid heroine, I would be forced to remanuever what I had. That said, she is free, and that just makes the choice easier!
Also, for those interested in the bikes... Raging is doing a poll on their facebook. Last I checked (which admittedly wasn't too long ago,) IE and JB were tied, and Kurganovas were way back in the pack.
Svetlana is indeed a great addition. I second the opinion about it being one of my favorite concept arts thus far. If RH continues like this, the pledge levels are really getting good additional worth, which would me go even more into it.
Those aren't eye pieces. They are full attachments from the ones we can see. They are replaced eyes. That does make you a cyborg (in my eyes.) Though obviously, we will quibble about what makes a cyborg a cyborg, since the definition varies according to the sci fi.
And Katrina I would agree, minus for the strange what looks to be pneumatic stabilizers attaching to the giant foot. (Though, to be honest, she was the only one I really had to look deep to notice it. Which means, I don't fully count her, much like Karmina, I couldn't notice any, so didn't list her.) The others are the reason I won't be touching Kurganova for the most part, and the IE almost entirely.
I had not even noticed that before! but now that I look I agree. Tech Augments do seem to be prevalent. If that makes them cyborg or not does not matter, many of them have an augment of one type or another.
And looks like it is time to unleash the bikes, and more Mechs - that will certainly get the pledges coming in - and get existing backers to increase their pledges.
I think on possible issue with yesterday's numbers is that until update #13 (today) there weren't really many details about the $385k SG as it was mostly brushed over in the update where they detailed the next couple of unlock SGs. With confirmation that there would be a freebie at this point coming in the comments feed rather than anywhere else. This may have led to people thinking that there was a brief pause in the freebies.
Whilst I appreciate that many of the freebies may not have artwork to post up straight away, but even just a name or brief note to show that there is indeed an extra freebie at $X funding would keep people happy that the value of the pledge was going to increase.
We're in a similar situation right now, we've got a £385k freebie, then the $390k unlock with talk about a bike at $400k but nothing at the $395k level. I'm sure this will change in update 14 though and we'll keep rolling forwards. Depending on how cool the bike is, we may see a spike after the update, but I think it's still a little too early for many people to go upping their pledges. Though, if we keep going with these unlocks and nothing else adds value to the higher levels, I predict there'll be more upping in the last few days as people work out what they want for their pledge money and we have most/all options unlocked.
Another issue, keeping people from pledging higher is that the current Support choices are.. minimalistic. We have 6 different types of artillery... and a mecha. The artillery don't look too different from one another within a faction, but if you are going for a set faction, then you have visual overlap, which is to be expected, but the choices are a bit minimal right now.
Once the bikes, mecha, and snipers are shown, for the various factions, we will probably see a spike in interest, as people try to finalize support choices.
The Kurganovs do have a lot of parts replaced. I suppose my level of replacement parts constituting cyborg status is far more You will be assimilated Borg, than what I see on them, which feels more prosthesis. But you are correct, the exact definition for cyborg is up for debate.
Honestly, I don't mind what people think cyborg is defined by, for some, I know in some sci fi universes, it is when you start replacing organs, which we can't see. In others, it starts when you add robotic parts at all. My definition tends to be important parts replaced by cybernetics that have to be controlled by a computer chip, and not muscle twitches.
I know people love the Kurganovas. The replacement parts just don't do it for me. Some are well done (Katrina's for example.) Others, like Ludmilla and the Soulweaver are... enough to turn me away from the faction. For the most part, to me, the models just don't have a bad arse enough feel for me to overlook the implants. Much like I can barely stand the Iron Empire, even though their fluff is amazing so far.
Needless to say, I am getting Baba, but I know she will be heavily replacement parts. I am simply getting her for the fluff, and she won't be a main piece in any army I make. Much like I am getting the Necropriestess. (Though she is because the mini just looks sufficiently creepy/bad arse, that I can look past the fact she is simply an undead creature thing.)
Raging Heroes wrote:The Iron Empire: The Iron Empire is made up of exiled people that have somehow stumbled upon necromantic knowledge from alien pharaonic gods. They combine Prussian and Germanic influences with some kind of Aegyptian cyber necromancy that allow them to raise the dead and create bio-mechanical aberrations.
PsychoticStorm wrote: oh right, I ignored the text, thought it was a legitimate concern.
Legitimate concern? This is the interwebz, mate.
Seriously. I, for one, feel like this KS is much better padded than I had thought at first. I was extremely sceptical at first, but the weight of evidence is bringing me around. We're getting so many heroine freebies that I almost feel comfortable not ordering as much during the campaign itself and doubling down on the infantry. Or the Mechs. Oh sweet penitent engines, come to poppa.
To those wondering why people are asking for heroines only, its because some of us dont want to bother having to convert costs of x and y into thisnor that and figure out which pledge level is ideal in terms of dollars spent, etc. to get one of each heroine figure being offered. It certainly would not be difficult for Raging Heroes to add a pledge level that is heroines only for say $350 that comes with all the heroines and only heroines, in fact it would be easier for them as it would require less record keeping at the end of the day (seriously i hope they have thoroughly planned their survey system out, etc otherwise theyre going to be spending ages trying to organize the damned thing).The current levels are either too high for just heroines or too low (seriously, iirc the lieutenant level actually costs more than the minis youre getting, freebies not included). In the case of too low its easy enough to add-on but it actually works out to costing more to do it this way then to pledge the "too high" level.
In other words, the options are to pay more to get just what you want, or pay more to get what you want + extra stuff you dont want.
Well, you really need to remember that while your enthusiasm has been lifted, you must also separate money from your wallet. As many sculpts as they have on offer, you wallet might be broken many times over and end up more busty than worky. I think Buzzsaw is right though. It's not fair to compare this to the juggernauts of the market. These are more in the line of a petite going for well-shaped than trying to get them as big as they can.
HDS: Chaos0xomega just told you a few replies before: the math involved is felt to be an unnecessary step. While we won't know until the end of the campaign if everything unlocks in the heroines department (and that is a big if, at this point, its chugging along fine) Offering such a level would go from "are you insane I won't pay for that much for a few heroines," to "ok... no special saving? to "insanely good deal."
It would cost 440$ plus shipping to get each heroine, so you can use a Captain Box plus a few dollars or a Major box and get stuff you don't want.
chaos0xomega wrote: seriously, iirc the lieutenant level actually costs more than the minis youre getting, freebies not included
The lieutenant level gets you $165 worth of (discounted) miniatures for $165. One of those miniatures is fixed though, the KS exclusive. On top of that you get the freebies, another four heroines until now with at least two more announced.
Edit: A get-all-heroines pledge level could be a good option i give you that.
Edit2: The Iron Empire bike (unlocked at $400k):
Edit3:
Update #14 wrote:3D renders and actual masters are on the way!
Also, you will be happy to know that in our next update, we will show you several 3D renders as we know that some of you are eagerly waiting for them.
And we are sending 2 sculpts this Friday to the 3D printer, so that you can see what the actual masters will look like.
More renderings and actual sculpts on the way. Yay!
Not all that impressed with the bike. It doesn't look awful but those forks stick out way to far and look too "girder-like" for the bike to be steerable.
somewheresomehow wrote: I am psyched about Svetlana. She is the first, not super obvious cyborg from the Kurganovas that has gotten my interest.
Which Kurganova is a super obvious cyborg, exactly?
Let us start with the newest released add on, Irina Vega. Metal hand, cyborg eye.
Then Ludmilla Magdanova, entire left side (as we look at her,) is robotic.
Arushka, Soul Weaver - Left hand is a bunch of tactile wires or robotics of some kind, and her entire right arm is robotic.
Katrina Zerga - Left leg is entirely robotic (looks replaced, not prosthetic.)
Commander Elektra Eisenstein - Her face is half robotic implant, left arm robotic in nature.
Aaqila Noyakin - Entire right arm robotic.
I didn't notice any overt robotics replacement parts on the freebies.
That answer your question?
Response from the RH staff:
" Irina Vega. Metal hand, cyborg eye." -> She does indeed have a cyber eye, but that's it.
"Then Ludmilla Magdanova, entire left side (as we look at her,) is robotic. " -> Afraid not. Ludmilla has some bio-eye enhancements and some sort of portable computer on her left arm, otherwise, she only has tall army boots but these are not cybernetic in any way.
"Arushka, Soul Weaver - Left hand is a bunch of tactile wires or robotics of some kind, and her entire right arm is robotic. " -> As explained in the background info on the Soul Weavers, the Soul Weavers indeed have many cybernetic enhancements that are made to enhance and channel their spiritual energy and their brainwaves. But they don't have fully robotic limbs. It's more like electronic devices placed on a wide bracelet.
"Katrina Zerga - Left leg is entirely robotic (looks replaced, not prosthetic.) " -> Katrina does not have a cyber leg, it is more of an exo-armor that is made to absorb the very big amount of recoil of her Heavy Weapon.
"Commander Elektra Eisenstein - Her face is half robotic implant, left arm robotic in nature. " ->Elektra only has long bangs on the right side of her face to hide face wounds from shrapnel and the elements you see on her arm is just a large shoulder armour.
"Aaqila Noyakin - Entire right arm robotic. " -> That is indeed the case.
I didn't notice any overt robotics replacement parts on the freebies.
On a side note *takes badge off* I freaking love Svetlana <3 such a bad ass mini! She's holding a high tech PPSH for the Ural mountains sake!
I'm torn about the bike...although the forks are no more raked then your average chopper, it seems a bit big for use as rough riders....they may make better sentinel stand ins then the mechas...which are armed too heavily for use as
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Hey, KM, can you put in a word for us on the waves thing? This might seriously impact what I get out of this whole slew of goodies.
Second this. Although, as frequently remarked.....Raging Heroes & deadline haven't went together well
Hence my wanting to make sure I hit Wave 1 (planned for September 2013) as much as possible. I'd rather get a sub-par selection on the last few goodies, a few months late, and pick up more at retail than have to wait on stuff that might be even more delayed.
KM, an interesting response. Thank you for getting them to somewhat set this straight! I disagree with Ludmilla. They may have concept arted it, but they really then need to fix Ludmilla's stance, because if that isn't a robot leg, her positioning with it, is so awkward she shouldn't be standing, or she dislocated her hip and thigh and it just is awkward.
On Eisenstein, it was probably the shading of the arm, cause it doesn't have a good sense of replication versus the right arm, but this is probably more visual interpretation, and I will say sorry for calling her a cyborg! And I think this could be why we need to start getting more of the large scale pictures actually published... where the front page's link says they are.
Also... glad Katrina is not cybernetic. She was one of the ones I am on the fence about from the Kurganovas.
Also...
I second the wave information. If these are being shipped to retailers, to be distributed, then retailers are going to expect to be reimbursed somehow, for their time and effort. If these stores get these minis early, to sell for retail, I may not be a very happy camper.
Agreed. Seeing them at retail while waiting on your pledge would be...problematic. since you will apparently be waiting until your order is completely complete for home shipping.
The "wave" distribution was only mentioned for the drop ship program. Which is great....for like five US counties
I'm starting to dislike this kickstarter, I was initially going to go Iron Empire only but with each new goal I can't decide what i want at all.
If the models for the kurganova witches look as awesome as the art they are a must have.
It's getting that I don't know how much money i will have to put aside for the end of the month
Guys, can you summarize exactly what info you want on the waves into one concise post I can copy and paste? Things are a little hectic here in Colorado Springs right now and I'm a little too spacey to bring it all together on my own.
Bullockist wrote: I'm starting to dislike this kickstarter, I was initially going to go Iron Empire only but with each new goal I can't decide what i want at all.
That sounds to me like one of those good problems. "They have so much awesome stuff I can't decide what to buy".
Bullockist wrote: I'm starting to dislike this kickstarter, I was initially going to go Iron Empire only but with each new goal I can't decide what i want at all.
That sounds to me like one of those good problems. "They have so much awesome stuff I can't decide what to buy".
The answer is to just keep throwing money at it until the problem is resolved.
Ouze and Talonzahn this has to be the most brutal 1st world problem i've ever faced. My budget is not fitting my wants , I might have to take a leaf out of my 20's behavior and stuff the budget for a month and eat potatoes and rice.
Thinking on it i want a kurganova with a kalishnakov . Get that done mighty herald and I'll be one happy camper.
Some Kruganova moto music for you guys. For the rodina comrades!
and your messages have been passed on to the staff, I'll let you all know when there's a response.
Don't worry about me, I'm perfectly okay and while my home is on the edge of the current voluntarily evac zone we're a couple miles behind the lines, if they're telling us to pull out thinks are well and truly fethed. I'm just running around a lot trying to help. The Black Forest area (where the fire is) is horse country, so there's a ton of displaced animals out there and there's never enough people power in those kind of situations. We'll be okay though, thank you for the concern!
I can admit the bike isn't doing it for me, but I'm not a fan of bikes in general. I'm more of a "Tanks" kinda guy. Motorcycles just don't make efficient combat vehicles.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: I can admit the bike isn't doing it for me, but I'm not a fan of bikes in general. I'm more of a "Tanks" kinda guy. Motorcycles just don't make efficient combat vehicles.
Which is why you make motorcycle dragoons - who use light bikes for mobility but fight as infantry - instead of a vehicle that's designed to keep moving to stay upright that can only fire its weapons straight ahead. Or at least give it a gunner on the back or in a sidecar so you can point your gun at things that you aren't about to crash into.
Personally think that bike is gorgeous. The Iron Empire includes a bit of stoic ugliness in its aesthetic, so I think that the rough edges of the look are perfectly acceptable. I think it looks way better than any other bike I've ever seen on miniatures for this scale. Loads better than the GW ones or the Puppetswar ones at any rate. I'm really excited to see the other ones revealed!
I see your point about the fixed weapon mounts Alex, but I think I can suspend my disbelief far enough to imagine the bikers jinking out of the way at the last second, nimbly dodging the bullet riddled corpses of their foes. Like many people, I'm going to use these for 40k, and fixed weapons on bikes would hardly be the silliest thing that 40k players have been asked to swallow.
I don't care for the bike either - but I'm not a bike person. I would have preferred sidecar & sidecar mounted guns too (that's really the only way they make sense as combat vehicles). But with 3 coming - maybe one of them will be a bit heavier and have a sidecar.
I'm with you guys, in that generally I don't like any biker infantry. It just looks... implausible. It doesn't matter how well done it is, I'm probably not going to want it.
I make an exception for Orks, of course, because improbability is their stock in trade.
Ouze wrote: I'm with you guys, in that generally I don't like any biker infantry. It just looks... implausible. It doesn't matter how well done it is, I'm probably not going to want it.
Well the problem is clearly that is doesn't looked like an up-armored and up-gunned version of a Tron Lightcycle with the rider bent over the tank wearing an armored thong.
I could get behind that design.
.....
Not really, I too have never been a fan of "motorcycle" infantry.
Ouze wrote: I'm with you guys, in that generally I don't like any biker infantry. It just looks... implausible. It doesn't matter how well done it is, I'm probably not going to want it.
I make an exception for Orks, of course, because improbability is their stock in trade.
Cyporiean wrote: Have they said if any of this is 'Kickstarter Exclusive'? I'm seeing a number of models I'd love to pick up at retail for RPGs and general collecting.
I think just the sky captain is KS exclusive thus far.
We know you all want to see some sculpts, especially about the Troops.
So below are 2 images showing the Kurganova Heavy Troopers.
As you see them here, they are nearing completion.
They are still missing some accessories, and several details will be refined.
The Trooper in the center of the second image is holding the rifle that is the closest to the definitive form.
All other weapons are just mock-ups and will therefore be upgraded.
And we've just sent one of them to the 3D printer so we'll be able to show you a prototype next week.
We know that there are many people who have said to be sitting on the fence for pledging on the TGG Kickstarter because they wanted to see more Troopers' sculpts.
So, if you like what you see, PLEASE REPOST THEM along with a LINK to our campaign: http://kck.st/18RPJfh
Click here for larger image.
Click here for larger image.
The FREE UPGRADE for the REGULAR Troops COMMAND GROUP Box
What's already in the Command Group Box
In all Command Group boxes, you already have everything needed to make 5 different Troopers (who will also be all different from the ones the Troopers box).You also have enough accessories to transform 2 of these troopers in Heavy Weapons Specialist and another one into a Squad Officer. This means
2 Heavy Weapons (Fusion Gun, Lightning Gun)
1 Officer Head
1 officer's Pistol
1 officer's Contact Weapon
1 alternate Officer torso for the Jailbirds / 1 alternate pair of legs for the Kurganova Shock Troops and the Iron Empire
With this Free Upgrade, we will add to the Command Group Boxes
3 new Heavy Weapons (Beam Cannon, Missile Launcher, Gatling Cannon)
1 new Officer Head
1 new alternate Pistol
Additional accessories (grenades, binoculars, etc.)
And please note that, for those who have very specific needs for Weapons Specialists, additional weapons sprues will be available as Add-Ons.
UNLOCKS and other STRETCH GOALS
Latest unlock
At $385,000: Svetlana, the Light of Freedom, a new Freebie which will be included for FREE in all pledges starting at LIEUTENANT BOX level... If you've missed it, check out the info on her background as well as some extra info on each army. And don't miss the following Comments section as well to see how other pledgers plan to use her.
Coming up
- At $390,000: the Jailbirds' One-Shot Blondie will be unlocked.
- At $395,000: A Free Upgrade for the Command Group Box of the Regular Troops (see all the details below)
- At $400,00: The Iron Empire Motorbike #1 will be unlocked. And you can read on how gamers are planning to use it.
- At $405,000: A new Freebie (to be announced) which will be included for FREE in all pledges starting at LIEUTENANT BOX level
I'm assuming that these are WIPs. They need a lot more work to bring them to the level of detail and design shown in the concept art.
As others have said the cup size needs to drop a couple of sizes to make the more detailed chest armor in the concepts to work. The breast cups in the concepts are MUCH smaller than the render cups. The large breasts push the upper chest armor into too small a space and cramp the great collar gorget into a non-detail.
I'm not seeing the "corners" on the render shoulder pads in the concepts. The laminated plates are much thicker in the renders than the concepts and the additional layer of detail at the edge of the shoulder pads is missing on the renders.
Rendered helmets look far too much like GW Cadian helmets compared to the concept helmets and need a lot of work to be worthy of Raging Heroes miniatures. Helmet needs to flare out over the collar as shown in the concepts. The helmet front piece needs to be laid back a few degrees, and narrowed at the ends, and the small dragoon style visor shown on the concepts added back in. Insignia could be smaller. The shape of the eye pieces need to match the concepts and the cheek ridges on the concepts need to be added.
I'm hoping that the armor detail differences (shoulder pad, knee armor, upper chest armor, etc.) we see in the different figures in the concept art will translate into the final renders.
The Kurganova heavies look much better than the earlier renders we saw for the vanilla troops. Subtler breastplates would make them even better. For me, the heavy IE and K troopers are looking more and more like the female soldiers minis I would most like to buy from this campaign. Feminine, but more deadly than showy.
Of course, for the majority of my army, I'll end up using Dreamforge plastics. Unless, of course, RH does some sort of plastic troop box in a similar style. *cough cough hint hint cough*
Fafnir wrote: Disliking the proportions on the models. Perhaps I've just grown too jaded with heroic scale, but I just can't stand the size of the heads.
I'll wait until we see more of the iron legion/heroes, but if it's more of the same, I'm out.
The heads do look to be on the large size - but these are just initial renders, possibly due to get some refinement before they are considered finished and made into actual models?
Fafnir wrote: Disliking the proportions on the models. Perhaps I've just grown too jaded with heroic scale, but I just can't stand the size of the heads.
What are you seeing that I'm not? The Cadians were a hell of a lot more bobblehead than any of these. Unless you're complaining about the heads being too small somehow?
Alpharius wrote: The heads do look to be on the large size - but these are just initial renders, possibly due to get some refinement before they are considered finished and made into actual models?
Okay, but how accurate is the size given that this is a full helmet and mask covering a woman's head & hair?
Fafnir wrote: Disliking the proportions on the models. Perhaps I've just grown too jaded with heroic scale, but I just can't stand the size of the heads.
I'll wait until we see more of the iron legion/heroes, but if it's more of the same, I'm out.
They might be a touch too big, but probably not. Helmeted heads look a bit bigger than is typically shown on wargaming figures. The only issue I see is the running figure. That pose just looks silly on miniatures.
The proportions are perfect. They will look excellent as actual 28mm miniatures. More 'realistic' proportions may look better as concept art or render, but not as actual tiny miniatures.
Crimson wrote: The proportions are perfect. They will look excellent as actual 28mm miniatures. More 'realistic' proportions may look better as concept art or render, but not as actual tiny miniatures.
Well, I disagree with you on that one. There are many good looking (more) realistically proportioned figures out there. Dreamforge, Red Box, Statuesque, etc.
Some responses from RH about concerns about the sculpts.
Regarding the various details, the renders we showed are work in progress. But that's not the whole story:
If you look at our previous work, where everybody likes the truthfulness to the original plans, you'll notice that we ALWAYS have to reduce the quantity of details.
It is VERY easy for us to sculpt them, but on a 28mm miniature, you would be unable to paint them because they would be too small and visually too rich/messy to give an overall nice look to the mini... So we hold back...
Question: "Is it me or do they look a bit... squashed. Short and thick kind of thing?"
Our Answer: "To have them compatible with the troops of various other gaming systems, they have to be this way otherwise, they would be either too thin, or too tall. BUT, if you make the image smaller on your computer screen so they they show at 28mm scale, you will see that they are perfect!"
We do care about your feedback. In fact, what we always do when we reach the end of the sculpting process, we leave it alone for a few days and don't look at it.
Then, we get back to it one last time to correct all kinds of minor details, and incorporate the feedback we have received.
This generally makes a huge difference!
The breast issue will therefore definitely be part of this process.
@ KalashnikovMarine - Okay, I guess we have a few suggestions to scale down the helmeted heads just a smidge. Just don't overdo it and make them look too small.
Regarding the various details, the renders we showed are work in progress. But that's not the whole story:
If you look at our previous work, where everybody likes the truthfulness to the original plans, you'll notice that we ALWAYS have to reduce the quantity of details.
It is VERY easy for us to sculpt them, but on a 28mm miniature, you would be unable to paint them because they would be too small and visually too rich/messy to give an overall nice look to the mini... So we hold back...
Question: "Is it me or do they look a bit... squashed. Short and thick kind of thing?"
Our Answer: "To have them compatible with the troops of various other gaming systems, they have to be this way otherwise, they would be either too thin, or too tall. BUT, if you make the image smaller on your computer screen so they they show at 28mm scale, you will see that they are perfect!"
We do care about your feedback. In fact, what we always do when we reach the end of the sculpting process, we leave it alone for a few days and don't look at it.
Then, we get back to it one last time to correct all kinds of minor details, and incorporate the feedback we have received.
This generally makes a huge difference!
The breast issue will therefore definitely be part of this process.
No, NONONONO
I don't care about "other game systems" or GW to be more precise, go realistic, non heroic or I seriously have no interest in this.
Fafnir wrote: Disliking the proportions on the models. Perhaps I've just grown too jaded with heroic scale, but I just can't stand the size of the heads.
What are you seeing that I'm not? The Cadians were a hell of a lot more bobblehead than any of these. Unless you're complaining about the heads being too small somehow?
I greatly dislike the Cadians for the same reason as well.
You can't go non heroic. I don't want these full crazy GW heroic scale, but some heroic ness is required. True scale 28mm weaponry would be teeny toothpicks.
I've got some 1/35 scale humans that came with a tank. The human are about double GW height. The weapons for those double sized giants look too small on GW products. That's how off scale weaponry is. You have to have some heroic ness.
Does the weapon been too thick have anything to do with.
A) Been squashed in proportions 1/2/3 instead of 1/3/3?
B) Requiring disproportionate parts of the body like the head or breasts?
I can live with a bit thick weapons, even the true masers of true scale CB have a bit thicker than what they should weapons (latest generations of sculpts), but there is no reason for the body to suffer from heroic scaling.
Their method of showing WIPs and letting them cool for a few days while they receive feedback is good, imho. Better than "sorry, we already send it to the foundry." Once they are in 28mm, I'm sure those will look great, honestly. As others have said, I'd rather have weapons that are a bit thicker and cast correctly, rather than too small, warped, broken or a mess of details than won't paint.
Taarnak wrote: The only issue I see is the running figure. That pose just looks silly on miniatures.
~Eric
I LOVE that pose! That's the pose that makes me want to buy something. I'm so sick of all the "just standing around looking for trouble" poses. If I wanted models of women walking or standing while holding a weapon or something, I'd just go to hasslefree.
Perhaps you have this Kickstarter confused with Lounging Heroes: Loiteringest Girls in the Zzzzzzzzzzzz?
Taarnak wrote: The only issue I see is the running figure. That pose just looks silly on miniatures.
~Eric
I LOVE that pose! That's the pose that makes me want to buy something. I'm so sick of all the "just standing around looking for trouble" poses. If I wanted models of women walking or standing while holding a weapon or something, I'd just go to hasslefree.
Perhaps you have this Kickstarter confused with Lounging Heroes: Loiteringest Girls in the Zzzzzzzzzzzz?
They can do running. That's fine, but the foot touching my ass pose is dumb. That's not running. It's, I dunno, hurdling maybe. The swing of her torso and arms is good, but that leg is off.
Perhaps you got my comment confused with someone who criticized this KS in a more broad way. I sure as gak never asked for all museum poses or any such nonsense.
Taarnak wrote: The only issue I see is the running figure. That pose just looks silly on miniatures.
~Eric
I LOVE that pose! That's the pose that makes me want to buy something. I'm so sick of all the "just standing around looking for trouble" poses. If I wanted models of women walking or standing while holding a weapon or something, I'd just go to hasslefree.
Perhaps you have this Kickstarter confused with Lounging Heroes: Loiteringest Girls in the Zzzzzzzzzzzz?
They can do running. That's fine, but the foot touching my ass pose is dumb. That's not running. It's, I dunno, hurdling maybe. The swing of her torso and arms is good, but that leg is off.
Perhaps you got my comment confused with someone who criticized this KS in a more broad way. I sure as gak never asked for all museum poses or any such nonsense.
~Eric
You said, "The only issue I see is the running figure. That pose just looks silly on miniatures." It sure sounded like you were against running poses. Now that you've explained your actual issue with that particular type of running pose, your statement is much clearer. I mostly agree with you now, although I'm more tolerant of "heroic" exaggeration in action poses.
Keep in mind that, obviously, opinions will differ, and exaggerated claims and jokes at other user's expense will most likely garner a less than enthusiastic response...
For what its worth, most running poses tend to be pretty exaggerated, simply because realistic running doesn't tend to look very interesting, if not downright silly.
Cadians are a bit too 'heroically' proportioned, but FW guard models are a perfect compromise between 'heroic' and 'realistic' scale. I think RH should try to match those, and what I can see from these renders they have.
Crimson wrote: Cadians are a bit too 'heroically' proportioned, but FW guard models are a perfect compromise between 'heroic' and 'realistic' scale. I think RH should try to match those, and what I can see from these renders they have.
As someone with a (sadly unpainted) Krieg army, I'll have to disagree. There's more Cadian than Krieg in these proportions.
tting
I got nothing so far, I'll keep asking though!
I do have info on the "benefits of the drop ship program" really for the FLGS there isn't one except getting walk in recognition from the KS backers. Drop ship stores also intent to carry RH product from my understanding.
I have to say I especially like the heretofore-unseen stars on the sternum. I hadn't been considering these but now my heads are filled with dreams of Space Russkies, especially after Svetlana.
I know I'd worry about a bunch of my KS reward being sent to a game store to sit there until I could collect it
Real life has a bad habit of getting in they way, they might be there for weeks
(hopefully not, but depending on holidays/shiftwork etc quite possible)
Would the store be happy to have a bunch of space taken up with this stuff,
could all the staff (or 'mates of staff' who hang out in the back) be trusted,
a horrible thing to say but depending on whether the KS orders were in individually sealed packs for each backer, or just a bunch of loose boxes/blisters with a list of who was to get what temptation might be there to either pocket or sell stuff.
I've certainly known cases where pre-ordered/reserved (and paid for) stock has 'accidently' been sold by certain shops either accidently or deliberately
Exactly Orlando. Which was why I brought it up. It hadn't occured to me until just a bit ago, that these "waves" mean that certain figures are going to be done first. Which means, those items can then become retail items, once they start shipping them, unless they have written contracts they can enforce with these businesses (which I doubt, as this would be international court issues, and those.... are rough.)
It also means... how are they able to afford the extra shipping to ship these minis, as they come available, to these stores, while still requiring only 23/20/26 bucks for shipping.
I made this to help people better evaluate the proportions. Scale may be off, of course.
In proportion of their height, these RH soldiers have smaller head than any of the GW, models. They're also much thinner, even though they are wearing heavy armour. In any case, they're clearly closer to FW stuff than Cadians.
Then it may just be the sense of bulk that the Krieg's greatcoats offer that helps to negate some of the flaws inherent in heroic scale miniatures.
Either way, the proportions of this kickstarter's models is enough to push me away from it. I can only hope that the Iron Legion doesn't look this off.
The TGG hands and feet don't seem to be as offensive as the GW stuff so I'm not really having a problem with them for that. I don't care about the oversized gun as that's stylistic and I can deal with it. I think it works well enough because TGG also has narrower shoulders and chest than the Cadians which is good for overall asthetic.
Thanks for the helpful pic, though I doubt the troops will be printed this small, since we know that the RH commissars stand at least a full head taller than a space marine.
I guess the only way to know is to see an actual miniature in a scale photo.
HisDivineShadow wrote: That's assuming the height is the same as Cadians. Aren't the Kurganova sisters a bit taller then normal Gw? Have they said these will be shorter?
The sisters are a bit taller, because they're in high heels and wearing peaked caps. Take those away and they're the same height.
Breotan wrote: The TGG hands and feet don't seem to be as offensive as the GW stuff so I'm not really having a problem with them for that. I don't care about the oversized gun as that's stylistic and I can deal with it. I think it works well enough because TGG also has narrower shoulders and chest than the Cadians which is good for overall asthetic.
BTW, as these troop boxes are multi-part, I really hope they make all the heads available separately, as that will increase the flexibility of the range greatly. For example if someone wants some Jailbird style infantry in heavy armour they can give Kurganova's heavy troopers Jailbird heads.
I find the desire for jail birds over Kruganova growing slightly, but I don't have the skillz required to do what I'd want to do which is give all the jail birds tattoos.
I'm not really a fan of those heavies... the torso "armor" is just comical! That said, some of the stuff here looks really great, and I'm glad they're not just showing concept art.
The one thing that was really eye-opening for me in this campaign was just how poorly proportioned the plastic Cadians are. I mean, it's one thing to have people say they're off, but then seeing that chart, it's nuts. Their hands are a foot long, the heads are appropriate only for hydrocephalics, and they're carrying a rifle that is nearly as long as they are tall (whearas a modern 68 inch soldier currently carries a rifle 33 inches long).
And that's without getting into the age-old, unsolveable debate of how tall they're supposed to be, but certainly, significantly shorter than Space Marines, right? And yet Marines are about the same size, in power armor.
The Elysians are a little better but still problematic. That's clearly a frag grenade, but it's the size of a number 10 tin can. How could you possible throw that more than 10 feet? It's got to be like a shot put.
I don't think I care that much anymore about how these scale against the deformed-ass models GW sells, frankly, since now I'm inclined to not include any GW models next to them at all. I only care that they look to be a good fit to GW vehicles, which are also poorly scaled but at least that's for a fairly good rationale; as far playability. Which, of course, then makes me think why not just go third party there as well.
This kickstarter really has me thinking about re-jiggering my whole setup frankly.
If they wanted to make the breasts less prominent, they could always use my approach. With a flat panel for the top side and a more form-fitting bottom side you get the best of both worlds - an obviously female form without looking like she's wearing a bodyglove.
I also have some model feedback I'd like a herald to relay, if they'd be so kind.
While I like the aesthetics, I think the usability as gaming pieces can be somewhat improved by providing a smooth surface on one of the shoulderpads for the Kurganovas & Iron Empire. This would allow for you to put a waterslide decal or freehand of a squad designation for use on the tabletop.
Ouze wrote: I also have some model feedback I'd like a herald to relay, if they'd be so kind.
While I like the aesthetics, I think the usability as gaming pieces can be somewhat improved by providing a smooth surface on one of the shoulderpads for the Kurganovas & Iron Empire. This would allow for you to put a waterslide decal or freehand of a squad designation for use on the tabletop.
I'd rather they didn't modify the shoulders like that, there are other ways and places to add markings. I prefer the more ornamented shoulder guards they currently have.
I like the chest plate idea though. How they're done atm isn't very good imo.
You will take what is given!
You will not complain about scale!!
You will not offer input on models!!!
*PSST, this is not GW*
Ohhh...
Uhhh...
Carry on then!
Automatically Appended Next Post: On topic. One of the guys in the comments did this work up. Reduced breast size... upgraded to 30.5mm to better proportion the mini. shrunk head a bit (i think he may be a witchdoctor but not sure) anyway I think it hits much more on the mark to the concepts.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Maybe they could take that proportion and just shrink it back to 28mm
Personally, I prefer the 28mm one. Body armor that bulky should result in a profile that is a little broader than an unarmored one. The 30mm profile is too tall and thin for my tastes. If they go with the taller, skinnier one, I think I'd reconsider whether or not to get any of the Heavy Troopers with my order.
Ouze wrote: I also have some model feedback I'd like a herald to relay, if they'd be so kind.
While I like the aesthetics, I think the usability as gaming pieces can be somewhat improved by providing a smooth surface on one of the shoulderpads for the Kurganovas & Iron Empire. This would allow for you to put a waterslide decal or freehand of a squad designation for use on the tabletop.
I, uh, think that's what they were going for with the chest plate.
Honestly I would take them either way as I personally think both directions would look pretty good.
What has me wanting them to go in the direction of the taller one is the fact that the short one is not bulky because of armor its bulky because she has no stomach which makes her look squat.
The proportions of the taller one accounts for the fact she has a stomach. which all woman actually have (its where babies come from )
Are we all assuming her body armor is paper thin? I assumed it was thick. Like, body armor thick. I mean, when I look at cops wearing riot armor, female cops I mean, the armor tends to make them look more squat and bulky. Far more like the first figure, to my eye, than the second one.
I might change my mind entirely if you placed it next to regular people and it looked okay, but RH claims that the 28 mm ones scale with regular GW figs. Which means the 30mm one, put next to a regular Guardsman, would look like a freakishly tall amazon, unless I'm missing something. (New daddy brain...no sleep...entirely possible.)
Glad to see my graphic made it over here. And no, I'm not a witch doctor....yet.
The thing that irks me about 28mm scale, coupled with heroic proportions, is that the models have no cores, just legs, a chest, arms, and a head.
GW does it, Warlord does it for their WW2 plastics...it's like the sculptors decided since a weapon will be held across the model's torso, it becomes a substitute for including an abdomen. Legs and arms stay the same length proportionately to each other, but the torso and often times the neck are shortened considerably., resulting in bobble headed, stunty models with oversized extremeties, when in reality the model just needs a stomach and lower back.
Imagine cutting the entire Lumbar system of the spine from a normal person, and moving their belly button to just below their sternum....
Well, I'm not one to try and fight the tide. I went and flipped through the photo album for the local police department just to make sure that I wasn't on crack, and I still maintain my opinion. (30mm fig looks Barbie doll tall and skinny to me. The 28mm fig looks right, but only given that she's wearing bulky body armor.) Unfortunately, I haven't seen a single other comment, here or on the KS itself, that seems to agree with me. Which is fine, I'm not going to be in the majority on every visual decision. Still, I hope that the RH team can find a happy medium, something that can satisfy me as well as the people who want more belly.
@Jim: I'd say the opposite. The 28mm one is too leggy, making her look more like a fashion sketch or Bayonetta than a real person. Even if she was going to be as bulky as the 28mm one, her torso should be a bit longer and her legs a bit shorter.
keltikhoa wrote: You will take what is given!
You will not complain about scale!!
You will not offer input on models!!!
*PSST, this is not GW*
Ohhh...
Uhhh...
Carry on then!
Automatically Appended Next Post: On topic. One of the guys in the comments did this work up. Reduced breast size... upgraded to 30.5mm to better proportion the mini. shrunk head a bit (i think he may be a witchdoctor but not sure) anyway I think it hits much more on the mark to the concepts.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Maybe they could take that proportion and just shrink it back to 28mm
Now that would see me keeping my money in for sure!
I'd put both into my Guard, but Raging are going to have to make a call about this and soon, as voices are rumbling in the comments section.
This might be the toughest decision they've faced since it began, as it seems they are in a 'can't please everyone' scenario. Maybe they can pull a rabbit out of the hat, but they'll need to respond to the concerns sooner than later.
I'd anticipate more formal word next update, but the answer for now as passed to us is "We are listening to your feed back and these are work in progress"
To use the ol' Dakka KS cliché for a second, if they feth this up and go to more than 28mm then I will withdraw my pledge. I mean, we talked about it and talked about it to the point where Kroothawk threatened to put a link in his sig to where RH said they would not mess up the scale and even got multiple assurances from RH that they would stick with the right scale. They change it now and I'm out.
The amusing thing that I kept copping gak about is that I was worried they'd go too small earlier - and apparently, I wasn't alone, who'da thunk it? Now apparently there's a push to go Dystopian Wars in scale..
I don't mind if they keep the size of the minis the same, it's just the proportions that need the change. Infinity minis are around 28mm in scale, but they still manage to keep the right proportions.
That said, I don't care what the actual scale is, but if they go with the original heroic proportions, I'm out.
Here's some rough photo-shop hack and slash, trying to get my head around scale and proportions, hope this helps. Though probably not very accurate as we don't yet know what the prints will look like yet, or how much shrinkage/compression will occur depending on the casting material.
The RH commissar next to the space marine is taken from the scale comparison shot posted on pg. 3 of this thread.
I've always liked this post, and how it shows the inherent flaw that is 28mm heroic scale (particularly for GW, which seems to be the ruler by which every miniature close in size is measured by):
28mm has no base measurement that we can scale things from. It's too vague...28mm to eyes? Top of head?
Scales are set. 1/35 scale, 1/72, 1/300, etc, of course allowing slight variations for human heights. But equipment would not vary much, if at all.
Infinity is a good example of miniatures that are designed near 1/56 scale. They vary between what many people call "True 28mm" and somewhere near the lower side of 32mm, or around 1/56 to 1/52 range.
~iPaint
(On a side note, I didn't think I'd cause this much commotion from a single image, but it's nice that we can have discussions about it.)
Edit: vic, excellent comparison, shows how daft GW is with their chunky models. I think their Eldar and Dark Eldar are probably the only models I'd consider near to proportionate any more, or they were last time I checked.
Heroic scale is a relic of an era where it was difficult to sculpt/cast more detailed miniatures with defining characteristics. With the technology we have now, it should be long gone.
Jimsolo wrote: Well, I'm not one to try and fight the tide. I went and flipped through the photo album for the local police department just to make sure that I wasn't on crack, and I still maintain my opinion. (30mm fig looks Barbie doll tall and skinny to me. The 28mm fig looks right, but only given that she's wearing bulky body armor.) Unfortunately, I haven't seen a single other comment, here or on the KS itself, that seems to agree with me. Which is fine, I'm not going to be in the majority on every visual decision. Still, I hope that the RH team can find a happy medium, something that can satisfy me as well as the people who want more belly.
No, you're not alone. I was worried that these models would be skinny with stupidly long and thin legs and would look wrong next to 40K models. But these renders are perfect. I really hope they don't change them.
Fafnir wrote: Heroic scale is a relic of an era where it was difficult to sculpt/cast more detailed miniatures with defining characteristics. With the technology we have now, it should be long gone.
Ultimately though, RH is just one of many small companies that make their living by being compatible with the big dog on the block. The "truer" your true-scale, the farther into the niche you go.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Some additionally useful images might be comparing some of the RH renders and existing Kurganovas to some Dark Eldar, along with the inevitable Imperial Guard and Space Marines...
Blondie is unlocked finally! Her and Burnadette drew me in to start with so now I'm happy. I do prefer the look of the 30.5's but I do think the 28's are a million times better than the GW gorilla bobble men, however I have a FWBA army in the works and I need them to look shorter than them.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: This might be the toughest decision they've faced since it began, as it seems they are in a 'can't please everyone' scenario.
Eh, I like either one. I like the slightly taller one with the flatter chestplate more, but neither one is a deal killer for me. Truthfully I just want the flatter chestplate, it looks a little less ridiculous. But either one will work for me in the end.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I really and honestly hope they redo all the renders in 1/3/3 I hate that squashed torso, I feel it ruins a perfect model.
But that would entail shorter (perhaps stumpy looking) legs while most (all?) of their previous minis had really long legs. The concept art wasn't 1/3/3 either btw.
I'd like to see their 3d print first before commenting on this further.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I really and honestly hope they redo all the renders in 1/3/3 I hate that squashed torso, I feel it ruins a perfect model.
But that would entail shorter (perhaps stumpy looking) legs while most (all?) of their previous minis had really long legs. The concept art wasn't 1/3/3 either btw.
I'd like to see their 3d print first before commenting on this further.
Most are 1/3/3 with a few 1/3/3,5, definitely none 1/2/3
PsychoticStorm wrote: I really and honestly hope they redo all the renders in 1/3/3 I hate that squashed torso, I feel it ruins a perfect model.
So you think their torso should be as long as their legs? I assure you, that would look weird, human legs are considerably longer than torsos. Proportion of torso and the legs is quite correct on the renders. They're just slightly stockier an have bigger heads than real humans.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I really and honestly hope they redo all the renders in 1/3/3 I hate that squashed torso, I feel it ruins a perfect model.
So you think their torso should be as long as their legs? I assure you, that would look weird, human legs are considerably longer than torsos. Proportion of torso and the legs is quite correct on the renders. They're just slightly stockier an have bigger heads than real humans.
So you link an article demonstrating that I'm right? Okay.
If you don't believe me, maybe you believe Leonardo? Notice how crotch is at halfway of the figure. Legs are way longer than the torso. Everyone who understands anatomy knows this.
Ok did some PhotoFu. The very leggy Tyra Banks provided a nice reference. This shows her proprotions at 1,3,4. and i reduced her proportions to 1,2,3. (also shrunk the width to try an compensate a bit) but the result is still quite odd looking
For those working without visual reference (or as a means of checking one's work), proportions commonly recommended in figure drawing are:
An average person is generally 7-and-a-half heads tall (including the head). This can be illustrated to students in the classroom using paper plates to visually demonstrate the length of their bodies.
An ideal figure, used for an impression of nobility or grace, is drawn at 8 heads tall.
A heroic figure used in the depiction of gods and superheroes is eight-and-a-half heads tall. Most of the additional length comes from a bigger chest and longer legs.
Note that these proportions are most useful for a standing model. Poses which introduce foreshortening of various body parts will cause them to differ.
As I said the usual is 1/3/3, idealized its 1/3/4, in any case 1/2/3 is not what the human body looks like, now if you like, spin it as you may want, the fact is the 2 heads torso is too short.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I will also add these two
No it's not. Torso being same length as legs is just flat out wrong.
idealized its 1/3/4,
Close enough, though you have to account neck, which actually makes torso less than 3/8.
in any case 1/2/3 is not what the human body looks like, now if you like, spin it as you may want, the fact is the 2 heads torso is too short.
Obviously not. Humans are not six heads tall. These are stylised miniatures though. You also notice that the render of the soldier has torso slightly over 2 heads, making it correctly proportioned in relation of the legs.
The adjusted image actually has too long torso. The rifle being in front of her helps to hide this.
The adjusted helmet on the far right looks more like what an unhelmented head would be. Also, the torso is covered in armor so it would tend to be slightly thicker than one of the Jail Bait figures.
Still, I like the adjusted 28mm legs and hips more than the proposed 28mm. The proposed one seems a little unnatural when I look at it.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I really and honestly hope they redo all the renders in 1/3/3 I hate that squashed torso, I feel it ruins a perfect model.
But that would entail shorter (perhaps stumpy looking) legs while most (all?) of their previous minis had really long legs. The concept art wasn't 1/3/3 either btw.
I'd like to see their 3d print first before commenting on this further.
Most are 1/3/3 with a few 1/3/3,5, definitely none 1/2/3
I just checked most of the concept art. None of them were 1/3/3.
No, that's why filtering is important, looking at their previous work in their sight hasty I think their work is 1/3/3 or 1/3/3,5 in proportions, should they sacrifice their stile and proportions to make cartoony, heroic scale models just to be better proportioned to fit GW models? in my opinion this will be a mistake and something that may cost them more backers that it would gain them.
To people who think torso and legs being same length is not weird:
This is what it looks like.
And yes, I know East Asians have proportionally shorter legs than Europeans, but not that short. There is no population on Earth that looks like that. Some individuals might.
That's a really bad, biased figure, but whatever, the main point of the discussion is the 2 heads chest is bad and unproportionate, legs can be averaged in 3, 3,5 and 4 heads, take whatever you may like, the 1/2/3 proportioned model RH suggested is bad.
This. They reduce the breast size and keep it at 28mm/Cadian/Elysian size, and I will find myself putting money into a kickstarter for the first time. I'm really liking the Kurgonova models, if they would drop the breastplate down to a less exaggerated size like they had in the concept art.
Jimsolo wrote: With Blondie unlocked, the only thing I really need is the snipers. Everything after that is just icing.
Kruganova snipers and Ivanka Kruganova are the only models left for me to complete my "optimum pledge"... you know unless the Kruganova mech tempts $30 out of me.
Jimsolo wrote: With Blondie unlocked, the only thing I really need is the snipers. Everything after that is just icing.
Kruganova snipers and Ivanka Kruganova are the only models left for me to complete my "optimum pledge"... you know unless the Kruganova mech tempts $30 out of me.
I'm going to guess that it will!
Initially I was thinking 100% Kurganovas, with a smattering of Jail Birds but now...I'm thinking the exact opposite.
Unless future reveals make me switch it all up again!
PsychoticStorm wrote: What is your suggestion then? keep the 1/2/3? is this what you suggest?
Yes. They look fine. Boobs are possibly slightly too large making the rest of the torso look small, but even that's not bothering me. These soldiers look tough and solid. I have no use for skinny pin-head barbies.
PsychoticStorm wrote: What is your suggestion then? keep the 1/2/3? is this what you suggest?
Yes. They look fine. Boobs are possibly slightly too large making the rest of the torso look small, but even that's not bothering me. These soldiers look tough and solid. I have no use for skinny pin-head barbies.
Ok you want disproportionate heroic troops, sorry we have nothing to discuss on that point, I am sorry I thought you wanted realistic proportionate troops.
Also a 1/3/4 example, not the best work out there but was a fast one.
I find it rather nice, albeit a bit to "heroic" in the sense of being too statuesque for a rank and file. I would make heroes in that proportion, with the rank and file somewhat less imposing.
As someone that finds GW's heroic scaling a malignant influence on modern sculpts, I sincerely hope the assembled masses don't push conformity with that aesthetic on a promising new line.
As I've said, Heroic proportions (honestly, it should be called Fisher Price scale) are something that should have died off long ago. I simply won't buy anything that is "heroic scale" anymore. To do so would only encourage it to stay around.
I prefer the heroic scale. Cadians are too disproportionate, but these RH ladies as well as FW stuff look great. It is just nicer to paint and looks better from distance. But ultimately it is a matter of taste.
Crimson wrote: I prefer the heroic scale. Cadians are too disproportionate, but these RH ladies as well as FW stuff look great. It is just nicer to paint and looks better from distance. But ultimately it is a matter of taste.
I really hate it when people quote the post above them and say 'this,' but...
This.
On the other hand, I do think that the 'revised 28mm' one on the previous page, while a bit torso-y, is a good compromise, and definitely something I'd be willing to settle on.
keltikhoa wrote: Ok did some PhotoFu. The very leggy Tyra Banks provided a nice reference. This shows her proprotions at 1,3,4. ...
...which might have meant something if it was an actual photo of a real human being, rather than a manipulated photoshop.
You will very, very rarely ever see a professional shot of a model that hasn't been tweaked to fit whichever ideal body shape is currently selling magazines.
PsychoticStorm wrote: That's a really bad, biased figure, but whatever, the main point of the discussion is the 2 heads chest is bad and unproportionate, legs can be averaged in 3, 3,5 and 4 heads, take whatever you may like, the 1/2/3 proportioned model RH suggested is bad.
It is not 1/2/3 if you are using the helmet as the measuring stick. It's more like 1(plus helmet)/2.4/3.6, assuming the helmet adds 1/5 of a head height to the head, which is reasonable to account for hair and padding/armor. 1/3/3 looks odd because it makes the legs look too small for the upper body. That's more of a Mantic thing than a Raging Heroes thing.
Just for the record: Even after "changing fundamental errors", "doing everything right", "listening to the customers" and "unlocking miniatures like crazy", the kickstarter campaign shows basically no change in dynamics, except a minor boost, when boing boing made it known outside the tabletop community. I see no problem in that, as all succesfull kickstarter dynamics look like that. And I never had any doubt, that all 150 sculpts get unlocked in the end.
I'll admit though, not sure why you feel the need to try and drag this one back on a negative track.
Thanks for the updated charts though!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Moving on...
New Update!
Here comes Blondie!
Update #16 · Jun 15, 2013 · comment
Troopers and proportions
We have followed with attention the various conversations (here on Kickstarter, but also on DakkaDakka and elsewhere) regarding the proportions of the Kurganova Heavy Troopers we showed in our previous update.
First, please know that we very much appreciate all the thinking you've been doing about this. Just as some of you have begun to do, we have also spent a great many hours (weeks, really) dissecting many miniatures from many different brands to analyze their proportions, we made tons of line-ups in Photoshop to compare their size and bulk, and of course, we brought all that into the 3D software to try it on the sculpts.
But all your comments have been enlightening for us, and helped us better understand what you actually like and what you dislike, and also, where you want the hobby to go.
Also, we noticed several commenters stating that they trust us to come up with the best solution in the end, and we want to thank you for this vote of confidence.
Just so you know, thanks to the 3D process, making changes to the proportions is really not a big deal. And so, we will continue to watch how these conversations develop before committing to a final decision.
But we can say that our personal taste is for proportions more in line to the ones of our Heroines, because we find them more beautiful, and because we think that the entire industry is moving towards “truer”, or at least, more elegant proportions.
2 new Stretch Goals now passed!
We've passed the $390,000 mark, and you've unlocked One-Shot Blondie!!
And we've just passed $395,000, which gives a Free Upgrade to all the Regular Troops Command Group boxes.
Unlocked Freebies as of today...
Thought you'd like a reminder of the Freebies to date:
So now, onwards to the next Stretch Goals:
the $400,000 Unlock of the Iron Empire Motor Bike #1. See how gamers are planning to use it...
the $405,000 Freebie (the Jailbirds' Freedom Fighter)
the $410,000 Unlock of Tarja, Yaga Soul Weaver (image coming up tomorrow)
the $415,000 Free Upgrade for the boxes of Heavy Troopers
Furthermore, we need new backers! So this week-end and beginning of the week, we're gonna focus a bit more on communicating with the outside world, and we invite you to do the same. This means that you may not get as many Updates in the next few days, but it is for a good cause. The Toughest Girls of the Galaxy will conquer the world!
The Freedom Fighters were a real surprise to me. I didn't hear anything about them, but they've been a real pleasant addition. Looking forward to the Jailbirds one.
Oh gak, it sounds like they're going to change the proportions of the models. Those renders were a first thing that assured me that these models are worth getting...
It is not 1/2/3 if you are using the helmet as the measuring stick. It's more like 1(plus helmet)/2.4/3.6, assuming the helmet adds 1/5 of a head height to the head, which is reasonable to account for hair and padding/armor. 1/3/3 looks odd because it makes the legs look too small for the upper body. That's more of a Mantic thing than a Raging Heroes thing.
Thank you. That's not a head, it's a helmet. The premise of these arguments has been flawed for several pages.
Oooh! Tarja! Sweet I was looking forward to alternate Soul Weaver unlocks. I really want the alternate Ivanka sculpt though! Or some sign of the snipers! XD
The heavy trooper upgrade sounds promising as well, with that, three of the five box types I'm getting will have upgrade sprues
I really hope RH is just humoring people. "Oh, you shooped something that you think looks better than the sculpts we made, we'll definitely take that on board!".
Since we haven't even seen the sketch for Kiki, the really isn't any info extra parts or stretch goals for more parts. Although I doubt theyll make enough for a full unit of (diverse) Ogryn.
Might'n there be a possibility for more bio experiment survivors down the road? Who know. They do have a plan for more releases further on when they do their game. Whether or not they end up in this KS is a guess at this time.
Crimson wrote: Yes. They look fine. Boobs are possibly slightly too large making the rest of the torso look small, but even that's not bothering me. These soldiers look tough and solid. I have no use for skinny pin-head barbies.
Ok you want disproportionate heroic troops, sorry we have nothing to discuss on that point, I am sorry I thought you wanted realistic proportionate troops.
Raging Heroes wrote:But we can say that our personal taste is for proportions more in line to the ones of our Heroines, because we find them more beautiful, and because we think that the entire industry is moving towards “truer”, or at least, more elegant proportions.
A lot of it is. The Games Workshop part of it, which a lot of people will be wanting these miniatures for, is largely not... but that's not a huge problem so long as these girls are still a reasonable height.
More human proportions is a great aim... but regular human females towering head and shoulders over space marines is really not.
I'd rather these scaled in with dreamforges plastic offerings rather than GWs. Though not hugely fussed as I'll mostly be using some jailbirds for some necro/inquisimunda and the tech priest in a mechanicus army made up of a mix of thallax cohort, dreamforge and other small manufacturer components with lots of conversions so I can scale things how I like.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: I'd rather these scaled in with dreamforges plastic offerings rather than GWs.
I actually agree with this. I have a few figures from companies other than GW and I'm perfectally fine with my RH girls being useful in some game other than just 40k.
Kroothawk wrote: Just for the record: Even after "changing fundamental errors", "doing everything right", "listening to the customers" and "unlocking miniatures like crazy", the kickstarter campaign shows basically no change in dynamics, except a minor boost, when boing boing made it known outside the tabletop community. I see no problem in that, as all succesfull kickstarter dynamics look like that. And I never had any doubt, that all 150 sculpts get unlocked in the end.
Whilst it's true that the trends at the moment match the 'expected' numbers, I don't think it's correct that the changes made after the early feedback had no impact, simply because we don't know what might have happened if the changes hadn't been made when they were. There was the possibility that the numbers could have taken a bigger than expected dip due to the various groups of people shouting about X or Y being wrong and then reducing / removing their pledges if they felt that nothing was being done by RH to correct things.
As for unlocking everything by the end, I'm sure we will get there. Though looking at the numbers right now it still looks a little uncertain. There's 34 unlocks still to go, including the bike at $400k, which takes us through to $730k before everything initially listed is unlocked. Doesn't seem like much, given that funding is over half way there, but based on the current numbers we're depending on their being a rush in the last 24-48 hours. This will, barring major issues, happen as it does with most KS projects that do well. Though, personally, I'd like to see everything unlocked before then as it'll let people see what they can get with their pledges before the end and help push things up further so that RH can possibly include more cool figures as add-ons.
The werewolves though in cost to model aint too bad, was going to grab a couple of boxes as stand in trolls as knocking £70 for the skinwolves from forgeworld is a bit too pricey for me 
