As far as Astra Militarum goes for allying in, what would be an optimal troop/hq tax for a CAD to get things like basilisks and wyverns?
Commissar? Command Squad? 2x10 Veteran squads? I've played vs guard enough to know what those units do, but i really don't have any experience actually using them myself.
A Lord Commissar (converted up to be some form of Magus?) and two squads of veterans toting flamers and shotguns would fit nicely with the rest of the cult, and then give you access to all the nasty artillery pieces.
Ambience 327 wrote: GSC are rumored to "Allies of Convenience" with Astra Militarum - which makes it easy to ally them in.
It also means I can have my Deathstrike "Doomsday Weapon" with a very small tax of an HQ and a squad of Veterans.
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
So if you have Tyranids be Ally of Convenience to Genestealer Cult and be Ally of Convenience Astra Militrarium how does it work between Tyranids and Astra Militarium? They still be Come the Apocalypose or what ever it's called now? Or can you only ally with one other codex at the same time?
I haven't seen any conformation of this new allies chart. I suspect that it isn't true due to posted by a extreme dubious source and that we just just the one we already know of. But in the case that it is true.
A - B allies of Con
A - C Allies of Con
B - C Come at the appoc.
So A and B can come close to each other without any issues. So can A and C, but B and C have to watch follow all the rules for come at the appoc.
Ambience 327 wrote: GSC are rumored to "Allies of Convenience" with Astra Militarum - which makes it easy to ally them in.
It also means I can have my Deathstrike "Doomsday Weapon" with a very small tax of an HQ and a squad of Veterans.
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
So if you have Tyranids be Ally of Convenience to Genestealer Cult and be Ally of Convenience Astra Militrarium how does it work between Tyranids and Astra Militarium? They still be Come the Apocalypose or what ever it's called now? Or can you only ally with one other codex at the same time?
Indeed. What it really does is makes it quite inconvenient and less powerful to combine all three armies, but makes it really easy to add one or the other to the Cult to represent various possible occurrences.
A) Only in a formation there will be guard troops.
"- formations that make use of both the Genestealer Cults and Astra Militarum ranges, with notes on the wargear that Genestealer Cults scavenge and use for their own sinister ends;"
B) (Looking on the writing on the conversion page):
Normal Neophytes can take also guard equipment.
"Any Goliath Rockgrinder may be equipped with a cache of demolition charges"
Could it be? Does GW actually have the guts to give the Genestealer Cult an actual terrorist car-bomb?
(Also, my homebrew Cult Codex "rigged systems" already being modeled on to some of my vehicles may be a nice boon. )
Either it's a car bomb(so would explode using a higher strength and ap than usual), or rather just a ranged demolitions charge that can be thrown from the vehicle the way Marbo used to do with his. Still, could be a nice way to add some S8 AP3 large blasts into the force.
"Any Goliath Rockgrinder may be equipped with a cache of demolition charges"
Could it be? Does GW actually have the guts to give the Genestealer Cult an actual terrorist car-bomb?
(Also, my homebrew Cult Codex "rigged systems" already being modeled on to some of my vehicles may be a nice boon. )
Either it's a car bomb(so would explode using a higher strength and ap than usual), or rather just a ranged demolitions charge that can be thrown from the vehicle the way Marbo used to do with his. Still, could be a nice way to add some S8 AP3 large blasts into the force.
Could act as assault grenade as well. For 20 points it better be something good.
Timeshadow wrote: Or it could be like frag launchers so genestealer assaults into cover at init. Doh ninjaed
As much as I'd love that I really don't forsee GW rules writers allowing Genestealers to have an assault vehicle at their disposal. I'd love to be wrong about that I just don't see it happening.
xttz wrote: Pre-emptively getting in on the ground floor with questions now, should someone surface with access to the codex:
Can we ever take more than one Patriarch, Magus or Primus?
Can there be more than 2 Broodmind psykers in an army? Do Cult psykers still get the Telepathy discipline?
What options Brood Brothers get compared to an IG infantry platoon? Do they get command/heavy/special weapons squads, etc?
Do we get any Leman Russ variants?
Are there any anti-air options in the codex?
I really don't see the need for anti-air, to be honest. Your Nid allies provide you with flying hive tyrants, i.e. one of the best anti-air units in the game. If that doesn't strike your fancy, take a Crone, or just ignore the enemy flyers. With the notable exception of Flyrants, most flyers aren't that great a dealing with hordes.
I don't think that the cult is intended to be used with tyranid allies. Those "allies" will also devour the cult when they reach the planet, thats the whole fun of the fluff behind this army ; )
shadowfinder wrote: Could act as assault grenade as well. For 20 points it better be something good.
Timeshadow wrote: Or it could be like frag launchers so genestealer assaults into cover at init. Doh ninjaed
I thought about that, but the Goliath Rockgrinder is not Open-Topped nor an Assault Vehicle, so how would that work? On the next turn?
No, I don't think it will be like the Frag Launchers. It will probably either be a car-bomb type deal, or else anti-assault defense like fire barrels.
Asmodas wrote: I really don't see the need for anti-air, to be honest. Your Nid allies provide you with flying hive tyrants, i.e. one of the best anti-air units in the game. If that doesn't strike your fancy, take a Crone, or just ignore the enemy flyers. With the notable exception of Flyrants, most flyers aren't that great a dealing with hordes.
Either that, or just take a fortification with anti-air guns.
Theory for Tyranids, Genestealer Cults and Astra Militarum allies.
It is possible that Genestealer Cults's Astra Militarum become brood brother and cannot mix them up because of issues order and different rank. Military and mining don't mix. Military won't let mining people use their vehicle or ride one.
Same story as Tyranids don't want ride in mining tank or accept order from genestealer cult. Warriors dislike non-biotech anyway.
Astra Militarum become part of Genestealer cult instead of imperial then can be allies with Tyranids.
Aren't they just giving the squad free Imperial guard style demo charges the turn they disembark. This doesn't seem bad at all.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Solidcrash wrote: Theory for Tyranids, Genestealer Cults and Astra Militarum allies.
...
....
Same story as Tyranids don't want ride in mining tank or accept order from genestealer cult. Warriors dislike non-biotech anyway.
..
Tyrands are the eldritch horrors of the 40k universe they come from the depths of the void when called by an insane cult. They don't play nice or ask for a ride, they just eat everybody : P
Maybe the 20pts charge transform the goliath into an assault vehicle. Especially if purestrains (and maybe abherrants or metamorph) are not able to embark upon vehicles.
100% sure IG and Tyranids are allies of convenience
100% sure they're not lol. You mean GSC and IG?
I can't remember the exact wording they use but GSC can be ally of convenience with Tyranids/IG, and all other is Apocalypose
But the problem is, is it "Tyranids and IG" or "Tyranids or IG"
Tyranid607 wrote: As I told both of the new tank is not open top and can fire up to 6 from rear and I can't recall seeing anything like IG troop inside
The tank have ability to destroy/ignore terrains
And one of the tank is able to do something like tank shock ( no idea what it is)
Automatically Appended Next Post: One of the tank see water as a open ground instead of different terrain
Do you know what the transport capacity is on the Goliath? Not the Rockgrinder version; we already know that one.
Tyranid607 wrote: As I told both of the new tank is not open top and can fire up to 6 from rear and I can't recall seeing anything like IG troop inside
The tank have ability to destroy/ignore terrains
And one of the tank is able to do something like tank shock ( no idea what it is)
Automatically Appended Next Post: One of the tank see water as a open ground instead of different terrain
Do you know what the transport capacity is on the Goliath? Not the Rockgrinder version; we already know that one.
I will update you tomorrow when I back to store
I believe it is 10 or 12
And can't transport genestealer, at the page of genestealer it said so
Tyranid607 wrote: As I told both of the new tank is not open top and can fire up to 6 from rear and I can't recall seeing anything like IG troop inside
The tank have ability to destroy/ignore terrains
And one of the tank is able to do something like tank shock ( no idea what it is)
Automatically Appended Next Post: One of the tank see water as a open ground instead of different terrain
Do you know what the transport capacity is on the Goliath? Not the Rockgrinder version; we already know that one.
I will update you tomorrow when I back to store
I believe it is 10 or 12
And can't transport genestealer, at the page of genestealer it said so
I just can't believe that neither of the vehicles are open-topped... it defies all logic. Then again, this is GW, so I can't say I'm surprised.
Do you know any other information about the Metamorphs?
oldzoggy wrote: I don't think that the cult is intended to be used with tyranid allies. Those "allies" will also devour the cult when they reach the planet, thats the whole fun of the fluff behind this army ; )
Well they're willingly devoured, with the hybrids being under the Tyranids psychic control n all.
oldzoggy wrote: I don't think that the cult is intended to be used with tyranid allies. Those "allies" will also devour the cult when they reach the planet, thats the whole fun of the fluff behind this army ; )
Well they're willingly devoured, with the hybrids being under the Tyranids psychic control n all.
Precisely, and if some pesky interlopers arrive when that's about to happen, the nids and their willing subjects will all attack the intruders.
Why so eager to have transports, especially open-topped, when Genestealer Cult units can pop up basically everywhere on the table, charge and fight a round of combat and go into ongoing reserve to strike again. Something like this was mentioned in the game design video or on the GW website. With enough fire points to make use of the passengers' special and heavy weapons not being open-topped is a plus, preventing template weapons from destroying the passengers. The use of the Goliath is probably more like a mobile gun platform than a CC unit delivery system.
Its not open topped, as it seems to be a closed hull with a firing platform on the back. Surely you should be able to target the people on the back then?
SJM wrote: Its not open topped, as it seems to be a closed hull with a firing platform on the back. Surely you should be able to target the people on the back then?
Technically, no. It isn't open-topped. The passengers can't be targeted.
Fluff-wise, yes.
I'd wait to see if either vehicle has some special rule regarding this before passing any further judgment, though.
Warhams-77 wrote: Why so eager to have transports, especially open-topped, when Genestealer Cult units can pop up basically everywhere on the table, charge and fight a round of combat and go into ongoing reserve to strike again. Something like this was mentioned in the game design video or on the GW website. With enough fire points to make use of the passengers' special and heavy weapons not being open-topped is a plus, preventing template weapons from destroying the passengers. The use of the Goliath is probably more like a mobile gun platform than a CC unit delivery system.
Yeah, I agree. It seems like the Transports are more of a limitation than benefit to the mobile units.
Warhams-77 wrote: Why so eager to have transports, especially open-topped, when Genestealer Cult units can pop up basically everywhere on the table, charge and fight a round of combat and go into ongoing reserve to strike again. Something like this was mentioned in the game design video or on the GW website. With enough fire points to make use of the passengers' special and heavy weapons not being open-topped is a plus, preventing template weapons from destroying the passengers. The use of the Goliath is probably more like a mobile gun platform than a CC unit delivery system.
Because this depends on a random roll on a chart no one has seen, and is likely to be gak. An assault vehicle would solve a lot of issues and mitigates a lot of derp.
I will gladly eat my words if it's awesome and they're more than MSU maelstrom hopper units.
What I want to know is the Pure-strain Genestealers rules are and the unit size. Their formation would be nice to know too. Would really like to know that.
The army wide rule would be nice as well. As in the what's the random aspect of it .
Super late to the party but I ordered the CE and a set of cards. Dice are already on 'email me', so I made sure they'll let me know when/if they get back in stock. Love love love this release.
The seismic cannon "shakes" the enemy to death--what if it has the graviton rule?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also is the codex not yet for sale on iBooks? I was hoping to at least peek at the sampler and maybe see a glossary but I can't find it.
I want it to be grav for the sake of the army's effectiveness, but simultaneously don't want it to be grav because I think its too rock-paper-scissorsy for the game.
I don't want it to be grav because hi-tech is not really the genestealer's cult thing. Grav, on any level, is not portrayed as something miners have lying around.
No plasma, no grav, no melta please, unless we are talking cut-down versions of the things (like the mining laser is a poor man's lascannon).
Automatically Appended Next Post: My guess is the seismic cannon will be something like S5 AP4 Large Blast Strikedown Pinning.
Alcibiades wrote: I don't want it to be grav because hi-tech is not really the genestealer's cult thing. Grav, on any level, is not portrayed as something miners have lying around.
No plasma, no grav, no melta please, unless we are talking cut-down versions of the things (like the mining laser is a poor man's lascannon).
Automatically Appended Next Post: My guess is the seismic cannon will be something like S5 AP4 Large Blast Strikedown Pinning.
I am thinking it is more in line of a sonic weapon. Ignore cover more then likely. Hopefully large blast with ap3.
Chikout wrote: Is this pic clear enough? Looks like 4 crew.
Oh yes, totally not in any way open-topped.
On another note, that twin-autocannon is in a terrible position. What's it got, a 90 degree fire arc... to the front right!? Madness. At least the Rockgrinder variant's weapons are on a crane arm, making it a more sensible 'technical'.
Chikout wrote: Is this pic clear enough? Looks like 4 crew.
Oh yes, totally not in any way open-topped.
On another note, that twin-autocannon is in a terrible position. What's it got, a 90 degree fire arc... to the front right!? Madness. At least the Rockgrinder variant's weapons are on a crane arm, making it a more sensible 'technical'.
If the Machine Gods wanted us to shoot at people on the left they would have placed the gun on a center mount!
Alternate explanation-After the Horus Heresy PDF weapons were moved to the right side of their vehicles and a new doctrine established that trustworthy Imperial forces would always march on their left. This anti-rebellion measure has saved uncounted trillions of lives since those dark days.
Chikout wrote: Is this pic clear enough? Looks like 4 crew.
Oh yes, totally not in any way open-topped.
On another note, that twin-autocannon is in a terrible position. What's it got, a 90 degree fire arc... to the front right!? Madness. At least the Rockgrinder variant's weapons are on a crane arm, making it a more sensible 'technical'.
I think its based of one of the large number of infer-war light tanks that had of set min turrets set up like this so it could be crewed buy a passenger without increasing the axel length
They had offset mini-turrets on both sides, though. In the case of the Austin-Putilov armoured car, for example, it had two mini-turrets each mounting a Maxim gun.
I'll be sticking my guns on the crane arm, or building my own mount.
It's hard to be certain, but I think it has a lot more than a 90 degree arc. I suspect it will hit the whole of the side arc and most or all the front arc too. Which is enough for me, if it does.
Urg, the Grant. Similar to the Char B with its hull-mount 75mm, it was an attempt to provide heavier firepower at a point where turrets large enough to accommodate those weapons weren't really being produced.
Note that neither the Grant nor the Char B could angle their heavy cannon much, it was essentially a fixed forwards-firing piece that required the tank to be aimed, not the turret.
godardc wrote: Eventually, I think this vehicle looks like a toy.
I think it's probably the fact that it's painted in the usual GW catalog style, with bright colors and minimal weathering. Paint it in a more realistic style like real-world heavy construction equipment with a level of weathering to match and I think it will look a lot less like a toy. The basic shape of it doesn't seem like a major problem, at least any more so than GW's other vehicle designs.
Awesome stuff - I'm really interested to see the route this release has taken, they've essentially created two different legitimate looks for the neophytes, according to whether your cult is industrial or military.
More of this kind of thing in future and I'll be a very happy individual.
Are there independent upgrade sprues?
Is there a sentinel with upgrade sprue set?
Price of the Goliath?
Is there a release of HQs/Abberants, or are you just meant to buy box sets?
Oh, and I'll toss in a fluff one: Is it not kind of weird they're focusing on hybrids in the millitary there when the codex already focuses on hybrids?
Where are the contagi cultists?
Eh it's a shame that the Cadian Infantry & Upgrade kit are classed as Neophytes and aren't a separate unit entirely. The other Neophyte kit has much better sculpts for the same price and comes with a host of spare bits for conversions, too.
Then again, I suppose there isn't really much of a need for a separate unit rules-wise as (assuming they remain the same as the DW:OK rules) Neophytes are I4 Guardmen, and they are meant to get access to most common Imperial weapons in the codex anyway.
It's all more of a fluff difference in the end... and also a cool factor, which is where the Cadians lose out with their old, boring sculpts.
EDIT: Also new (and apparently improved) texture paints! Doubt I'll have a need for them any time soon but good all the same.
EDIT: Also new (and apparently improved) texture paints! Doubt I'll have a need for them any time soon but good all the same.
Oh, didn't see that actually.
That's actually really bad news, companies are -supposed- to be phasing out microbeads where possible because of their horrible environmental impact. Get those things into water sources and they have all kinds of negative effects.
I believe the only companies that are phasing microbeads out are cosmetic companies. Though they are the primary users of them, and most the Laws and the like put in (or planned to be put in) place only target cosmetic companies. Probably why GW is using them.
I suppose users are going to have to be extra careful to get all the beads off their brushes before washing them in that case...
Don't have the mag right now but it looked really interesting. They talk to all Three guys who worked on the miniatures and even specify which kits they worked on, which feels like they really didn't want to do previously. I Think they also talk to the Codex writers.
Tyranid607 wrote: Get access to the dex Can't take photo but can give you answer as you wish
Name all the GSC units and what they are. How does the new transport/vehicle work and what are the differences between the two types? How do Seismic weapons work? How do Web weapons work? How does the Drill/Saw/Demolition Charges/Blasting Caps work? What's special about Purestrain Genestealers? Can they get a Broodlord? Are there any Brood Brother units outside of the vehicles, or are they all controlled by Hybrids as well? Or do allies take care of that aspect? What are the relics? How do relics even work in a force that is, by design, meant to overthrow a world and then be eaten? What do Metamorphs do? Please tell me they don't have some dumb random chart to roll on to get abilities... How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
I just want to know exaclty how the Cult Ambush rule works:
dependent on a dice roll, Genestealer Cults units can set up anywhere on the table, deploy and charge in the same turn, and burst from their hidden lairs to surprise and engulf the enemies of the Cult;
So what is in the armoured vehicles section?
Also, what is the rule that allows assaulting out of a land raider? Could the Goliath have something like that?
It is weird that the model looks so open topped... Maybe designed before the rules?!
I find the the armoured claw boxed set (Cadian Neophytes and Chimera) a bit odd as well as it is not an actual named codex entry just a Neophyte squad with added troop transport. Glad that there is a discount on buying the Cadians and Chimera separately though (£25 minus the heavy weapon team+ £22.50 = £47.50, so a nice £12.50 saving straight away).
Am happy that the Neophytes have so many options though, auto guns, Lasguns and numerous Imperial and cult special weapons. So plenty of variety equipment and modelling wise.
Tyranid607 wrote: Get access to the dex
Can't take photo but can give you answer as you wish
You're online but you're not replying. Where are you? We eagerly await your presence :( Thanks in advance for any questions you can answer!
My questions were as follows; what does the Iconoward (spelling?) do? Are Acolyte Hybrids still Fearless? Do Neophyte Hybrids actually get Heavy Weapon teams and do all Neophyte Hybrids have the same profile? What are the new psychic powers like? Again, thank you.
I hope the Neophytes have access to lasguns. While a lasgun and an autogun are functionally identical in the game, it would really stink to not have wysiwyg neophyte squads if you chose to go the military cult rather than mining cult / hive gangers.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: I find the the armoured claw boxed set (Cadian Neophytes and Chimera) a bit odd as well as it is not an actual named codex entry just a Neophyte squad with added troop transport. Glad that there is a discount on buying the Cadians and Chimera separately though (£25 minus the heavy weapon team+ £22.50 = £47.50, so a nice £12.50 saving straight away).
You're forgetting that the Cult Upgrade sprue is included as well.
In any regards, "Armored Claw" is likely just the name they wanted to give them. When the Cadian and Chimera set was last being sold, it was billed as an "Armored Fist Squad" despite that moniker long since having been gone from the codex.
I would be willing to bet that one of the boxed sets, possibly the Broodkin box, is just the DW:OK GSC stuff repackaged. That way people can get their aberrants and whatnot all in one place.
Good point, that is the best bit. So 14 heads on the upgrade sprue, I will certainly be buying the armoured claw and a leman Russ so 28 heads to go round.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I would be willing to bet that one of the boxed sets, possibly the Broodkin box, is just the DW:OK GSC stuff repackaged. That way people can get their aberrants and whatnot all in one place.
The Broodkin box is the three characters from the GSC side. Pictures were posted in this very thread.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: I find the the armoured claw boxed set (Cadian Neophytes and Chimera) a bit odd as well as it is not an actual named codex entry just a Neophyte squad with added troop transport. Glad that there is a discount on buying the Cadians and Chimera separately though (£25 minus the heavy weapon team+ £22.50 = £47.50, so a nice £12.50 saving straight away).
You're forgetting that the Cult Upgrade sprue is included as well.
In any regards, "Armored Claw" is likely just the name they wanted to give them. When the Cadian and Chimera set was last being sold, it was billed as an "Armored Fist Squad" despite that moniker long since having been gone from the codex.
Am i mis-remembering, or was the "armored fist" bundle $60 USD? It was still saving cash vs buying the chimera and the cadian team seperately. But this for $55 and includes a HWT *and* a GSC upgrade sprue? madness! I will probably get one or two before they stop making them.
Oh, and as a non-guard player i have to ask another dumb question - are the cadian squads supposed to be veterans or platoon squads and is there specific modeling to differentiate the two?
casvalremdeikun wrote: I would be willing to bet that one of the boxed sets, possibly the Broodkin box, is just the DW:OK GSC stuff repackaged. That way people can get their aberrants and whatnot all in one place.
The Broodkin box is the three characters from the GSC side. Pictures were posted in this very thread.
oh, well in that case, who knows if the Aberrants will ever see standard release.
godardc wrote:Eventually, I think this vehicle looks like a toy.
Caederes wrote:
Tyranid607 wrote: Get access to the dex
Can't take photo but can give you answer as you wish
You're online but you're not replying. Where are you? We eagerly await your presence :( Thanks in advance for any questions you can answer!
My questions were as follows; what does the Iconoward (spelling?) do? Are Acolyte Hybrids still Fearless? Do Neophyte Hybrids actually get Heavy Weapon teams and do all Neophyte Hybrids have the same profile? What are the new psychic powers like? Again, thank you.
Do we have a stalker here? Oh my just because he says "online" doesn't mean he can really type. You know how hard it is to type out on a cell phone? Easier to read than to reply to so many question.
Mymearan wrote: How exactly does the "go into ongoing reserves then pop up anywhere" rule work? How do you get access to it? Which units can use it?
Points cost and stats for the Goliath and its weapons?
How are GSC Genestealers different from Tyranid ones?
What are their Psychic Powers?
Any good formations?
Not going to answer how and why
Appendix/
Cult ambush
Instead of arriving from reserves normally, unit can roll the ambush table D6 1/ your own table edge
2/ roll d6 1-2 left 3-4 right 5-6 you choose
3/ anywhere more 9" from enemy or 6" from enemy which have no los 4/ 6"
5/ 6" + bouns shooting or run
6/ 3" + charge on the turn arrive
Return the Shadows
Instead of moving in movement phase, unit have this rule and not within 6" of enemy models can be removed from battlefield and placed into ongoing reserve. Unit can't use this rule arrive from reserve or ongoing reserve and can't do so when in vehicle
Genestealer/aberrants/Metamorphs/neophyte/acolyte/ and all HQ
godardc wrote:Eventually, I think this vehicle looks like a toy.
Caederes wrote:
Tyranid607 wrote: Get access to the dex
Can't take photo but can give you answer as you wish
You're online but you're not replying. Where are you? We eagerly await your presence :( Thanks in advance for any questions you can answer!
My questions were as follows; what does the Iconoward (spelling?) do? Are Acolyte Hybrids still Fearless? Do Neophyte Hybrids actually get Heavy Weapon teams and do all Neophyte Hybrids have the same profile? What are the new psychic powers like? Again, thank you.
Do we have a stalker here? Oh my just because he says "online" doesn't mean he can really type. You know how hard it is to type out on a cell phone? Easier to read than to reply to so many question.
Mymearan wrote: How exactly does the "go into ongoing reserves then pop up anywhere" rule work? How do you get access to it? Which units can use it?
Points cost and stats for the Goliath and its weapons?
How are GSC Genestealers different from Tyranid ones?
What are their Psychic Powers?
Any good formations?
Not going to answer how and why
Appendix/
Cult ambush
Instead of arriving from reserves normally, unit can roll the ambush table D6 1/ your own table edge
2/ roll d6 1-2 left 3-4 right 5-6 you choose
3/ anywhere more 9" from enemy or 6" from enemy which have no los 4/ 6"
5/ 6" + bouns shooting or run
6/ 3" + charge on the turn arrive
Return the Shadows
Instead of moving in movement phase, unit have this rule and not within 6" of enemy models can be removed from battlefield and placed into ongoing reserve. Unit can't use this rule arrive from reserve or ongoing reserve and can't do so when in vehicle
Genestealer/aberrants/Metamorphs/neophyte/acolyte/ and all HQ
Thank you for posting. Greatly appreciated taking your time doing so.
*edit*
I would like to know, is it possible to do an all Stealer army? If so how can it be done? Any special rules?
Motograter wrote: The gs cult datacards are the last of the datacards. No more updates after these. Sign 8th wont use datacards?
One can hope because this sounds like the death of the random freakin table roll for everything. My guess is this means GW is trying to make games faster by removing some of the excessive setup time and random riling elements.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: I find the the armoured claw boxed set (Cadian Neophytes and Chimera) a bit odd as well as it is not an actual named codex entry just a Neophyte squad with added troop transport. Glad that there is a discount on buying the Cadians and Chimera separately though (£25 minus the heavy weapon team+ £22.50 = £47.50, so a nice £12.50 saving straight away).
You're forgetting that the Cult Upgrade sprue is included as well.
In any regards, "Armored Claw" is likely just the name they wanted to give them. When the Cadian and Chimera set was last being sold, it was billed as an "Armored Fist Squad" despite that moniker long since having been gone from the codex.
Am i mis-remembering, or was the "armored fist" bundle $60 USD? It was still saving cash vs buying the chimera and the cadian team seperately. But this for $55 and includes a HWT *and* a GSC upgrade sprue? madness! I will probably get one or two before they stop making them.
Oh, and as a non-guard player i have to ask another dumb question - are the cadian squads supposed to be veterans or platoon squads and is there specific modeling to differentiate the two?
The Cadian Squads are meant to be Platoon Squads or Veteran Squads.
There is no box specific to Veterans.
streamdragon wrote:So the Cult Neophyte Hybrid Squad is 10 Cadian Shock Troops, a Heavy Weapon Team and the Cult Upgrade sprue: $45 bucks.
Heavy Weapons Teams are normally not individually available, only in groups of 3. So we will look at 3 GSCNHS squads at $135.
GSC Armoured Claw: $55 AM Chimera: $37.25 AM Cadians: $29 AM Total: $66.25
So the Armoured Claw Team is actually CHEAPER than the comparable AM squads! You're getting the GSC Upgrade Sprue for (effectively) NEGATIVE $11.25!
Guess I know what I'm ordering!
Heavy Weapons Teams are available by themselves. They're $16 USD, up from the original price of $10 when they released waaaaay back in the day, and Direct Only.
29+16+37.25+13.50=$95.75
The upgrade sprue, if sold separately, would be $13.50(they've done upgrade sprue prices as static no matter the content for Marines, so it would be quite odd to see the price shifted for GSC). The Deathwatch stuff was sold more or less at cost with the upgrade frames being discounted as well.
ADDITIONALLY, Chimeras do not include Track Guards anymore. That requires you to purchase the "Astra Militarum Tank Accessories" pack which is $15 by itself. Plan accordingly, as it's a Direct Only item.
Yes it was established within their fluff that they still need to drink, eat, and do all that sort of living stuff, that they can still feel fear and the like.
Goliath Truck/50pts
BS3 11/10/10 hp3 open-topped/transport 10 models no genestealer or patriarch
With heavy stubber + twinlinked autocannon
Special rule/ rugged construction / 4+ to ignore crew stunned shaken or immobilised but still lose hp Option/ a cache of demolition charge 20pts/ 1 model can choose to throw one instead of firing its normal weapon 6" S8 AP2 assault 1 , large blast
Tyranid607 wrote: Goliath Truck/50pts
BS3 11/10/10 hp3 open-topped/transport 10 models no genestealer or patriarch
With heavy stubber + twinlinked autocannon
Special rule/ rugged construction / 4+ to ignore crew stunned shaken or immobilised but still lose hp Option/ a cache of demolition charge 20pts/ 1 model can choose to throw one instead of firing its normal weapon 6" S8 AP2 assault 1 , large blast
Tyranid607 wrote: Goliath Truck/50pts
BS3 11/10/10 hp3 open-topped/transport 10 models no genestealer or patriarch
With heavy stubber + twinlinked autocannon
Special rule/ rugged construction / 4+ to ignore crew stunned shaken or immobilised but still lose hp Option/ a cache of demolition charge 20pts/ 1 model can choose to throw one instead of firing its normal weapon 6" S8 AP2 assault 1 , large blast
As we hoped, the normal Goliath is open-topped. Seems like a good exchange for the Chimera, you get an assault vehicle and more firing ports, better firepower and that whole ignoring half of the negative vehicle damage results, but you get weaker front armor. Good stuff.
Cheers mate!
Any news on what the Seismic Cannon does?
tetrisphreak wrote: Is the result that allows you to charge on the turn you arrive force a disordered charge?
Thanks, btw, for the info.
Don;'t put too much on this "I have the codex" guy. He has deleted any predictions that he made that straight up contradicted the known materials now.
Really? Last time I saw him called out it was because he said there was no Brood Brothers unit entry despite it being 'confirmed', and now we know they're Neophytes.
Pretty sure the stuff he deleted was actually correct too. If I'm not mistaken he talked about the Rockgrinder, the Seismic Cannon, etc. Nothing he's said to my memory has been contradicted, he was called out for saying there are no Broodkin but the codex glossary leak has confirmed he was right.
tetrisphreak wrote: Is the result that allows you to charge on the turn you arrive force a disordered charge?
Thanks, btw, for the info.
Don;'t put too much on this "I have the codex" guy. He has deleted any predictions that he made that straight up contradicted the known materials now.
Really? Last time I saw him called out it was because he said there was no Brood Brothers unit entry despite it being 'confirmed', and now we know they're Neophytes.
I believe him.
Honestly it's not a matter of whether or not he's trolling. I love thinking about the things i'm going to be able to do with this army and everything so far i've read falls in line with the "hints" given out by the games workshop facebook studio, as well as some lines of text i was able to read in the BOLS teaser video on saturday. The statline and rules for the goliath truck seem pretty legit for it's points cost and yeah 60 for a transport is expensive in dollars but with the cult ambush rule, i can't imagine a force that would need more than 2 or 3 total especially if you're doing larger hordes of cultists. The demo charges rule is pretty cool too. Short range but a heck of a punch. Of course there will be the times when it scatters backwards and blows up the transport that was carrying it, but that's war!
So the only releases on the 15th are the Leman Russ and the chimera bundle. This makes for a very slight release week. On the 8th for comparison we get a new tank, a new clam pack, imperial guard and space marine bundles and a new battle mat. There must be something else coming.
When he posts something new and true, Then I am going to post an excuse to the user with 30 post, that until now only has posted rumors that are quite safe and removed all falls hoods by edits.
I just say don't get your hopes up, only based on Tyranid607's posts
tetrisphreak wrote: Is the result that allows you to charge on the turn you arrive force a disordered charge?
Thanks, btw, for the info.
Don;'t put too much on this "I have the codex" guy. He has deleted any predictions that he made that straight up contradicted the known materials now.
He predicted the ultramarine bundle up this week - which is now confirmed.
Maybe he is not Sad panda but obviously he have some info.
And I'd better not put my attention for a new account - 1) anonimity 2) cross-forum users (B&C on maintenance,Warseer RIP) 3) read only users. I was reading this forum since 2013 - registered only few month back.
oldzoggy wrote: When he posts something new and true, Then I am going to post an excuse to the user with 30 post, that until now only has posted rumors that are quite safe and removed all falls hoods by edits.
I just say don't get your hopes up, only based on Tyranid607's posts
Yeah, because that Ultramarine bundle he predicted dropping in the middle of the Genestealer Cult release was clearly a safe rumor.
oldzoggy wrote:When he posts something new and true, Then I am going to post an excuse to the user with 30 post, that until now only has posted rumors that are quite safe and removed all falls hoods by edits.
I just say don't get your hopes up, only based on Tyranid607's posts
And it's so easy to be a negative nancy on the internet and call out people as being false. Remember if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say it at all. We are all big boys and girls we don't need someone telling us someone is a liar. We can make that decision for ourselves.
What do you want to be? A certain poster on Dakka who has to come on and "thump" on their chest proclaiming they where right? What you want to win "internet of the day" or some buttons because you were correct?
Let us enjoy what he says. If he is wrong he is wrong. No big deal. If he is right, he is right and did us a favour which I appreciate either way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also way to go and if we have a new user to Dakka make him/her feel welcome.
Motograter wrote: The gs cult datacards are the last of the datacards. No more updates after these. Sign 8th wont use datacards?
One can hope because this sounds like the death of the random freakin table roll for everything. My guess is this means GW is trying to make games faster by removing some of the excessive setup time and random riling elements.
You still roll for table side, you would still roll for objectives, and still roll for first turn/ deploy and still roll for night fighting.
This would change nothing for rolling.
Unless you were too lazy to own the cards and had people wait on you to roll your cards every turn.
Plus this does not effect the generic deck or the new deck.
So, the Cult Ambush rule looks like a disappointment, as random rules in general are. 33% chance of derp table edges. 33% chance of your standard Tyranid PICABOO PLEASE SHOOT ME!. And only a 1/6 chance to actually assault when the unit arrives. Which means for it to be effective you actually need shooty units to build a viable reserve based army around, as every other codex in 40K history and not the meta changing army hinted by the developers. And chances are that the units with 'Cult Ambush' rule aren't of the shooty kind... Tau will laugh it off the table.
Not looking rosy at this point. Of course, there could be things in the codex that gives + to the roll on the chart.
GSC Armoured Claw: $55
AM Chimera: $37.25
AM Cadians: $29
AM Total: $66.25
So the Armoured Claw Team is actually CHEAPER than the comparable AM squads! You're getting the GSC Upgrade Sprue for (effectively) NEGATIVE $11.25!
Guess I know what I'm ordering!
Heavy Weapons Teams are available by themselves. They're $16 USD, up from the original price of $10 when they released waaaaay back in the day, and Direct Only.
29+16+37.25+13.50=$95.75
The upgrade sprue, if sold separately, would be $13.50(they've done upgrade sprue prices as static no matter the content for Marines, so it would be quite odd to see the price shifted for GSC).
The Deathwatch stuff was sold more or less at cost with the upgrade frames being discounted as well.
ADDITIONALLY, Chimeras do not include Track Guards anymore. That requires you to purchase the "Astra Militarum Tank Accessories" pack which is $15 by itself. Plan accordingly, as it's a Direct Only item.
The Armoured Claw Team doesn't come with a Heavy Weapon Team according to the WD description (at least it neither shows nor mentions it), so that's still a great deal for GSC and even AM players.
But yeah, 29 + 16 for the Heavy Weapon squad = $45, making the GSC FREE(!) in the Neophyte Squad. Even AM players should be buying that bundle and just eBaying the GSC Upgrade Sprue (or using the bits to trophy up their AM squads!).
Kind of crazy. I don't know if GW will be releasing the GSC upgrade sprue on its own, but if they do I suspect it will be about the same time these bundles vanish from stores.
N.I.B. wrote: So, the Cult Ambush rule looks like a disappointment, as random rules in general are. 33% chance of derp table edges. 33% chance of your standard Tyranid PICABOO PLEASE SHOOT ME!. And only a 1/6 chance to actually assault when the unit arrives. Which means for it to be effective you actually need shooty units to build a viable reserve based army around, as every other codex in 40K history and not the meta changing army hinted by the developers. And chances are that the units with 'Cult Ambush' rule aren't of the shooty kind... Tau will laugh it off the table.
Not looking rosy at this point. Of course, there could be things in the codex that gives + to the roll on the chart.
I'll be surprised if the purestrain formation doesn't give something like a re-roll on this chart.
But honestly, I don't think it's bad. It's a 1 in 6 chance of your reserves acting normally, otherwise it's either free Outflank or various best-of-both crossovers between Infiltrate and Deep Strike. Combined with the very cheap troop units we're going to see I think we'll get enough rolls on this table during a game for it to pay off well.
oldzoggy wrote:When he posts something new and true, Then I am going to post an excuse to the user with 30 post, that until now only has posted rumors that are quite safe and removed all falls hoods by edits.
I just say don't get your hopes up, only based on Tyranid607's posts
And it's so easy to be a negative nancy on the internet and call out people as being false. Remember if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say it at all. We are all big boys and girls we don't need someone telling us someone is a liar. We can make that decision for ourselves.
What do you want to be? A certain poster on Dakka who has to come on and "thump" on their chest proclaiming they where right? What you want to win "internet of the day" or some buttons because you were correct?
Let us enjoy what he says. If he is wrong he is wrong. No big deal. If he is right, he is right and did us a favour which I appreciate either way.
Also way to go and if we have a new user to Dakka make him/her feel welcome.
Do be considerate of rule no.1, unlike many others on this thread who have not.
I always have my doubts about people who conveniently pop up in these kinds of thread, with minimal post history and evidence. However, I would lean towards his information as being mostly accurate seeing what I have seen now.
Still, take it with a grain of salt people.
Also, this information is pretty pointless to everyone anyway - you won't even have the opportunity to play the new faction until release day, and if you preordered all your gear, well... you can only be responsible for that if the Codex is gak, and you only bought it for play rather than nostalgia or whatever.
Perhaps I don't understand these rumour threads properly, but outside of model and lore discussion, I struggle to see the significance or benefit of talking about Codex rules before their release.
gorgon wrote: It's gak like that causes people who know things to become reluctant to even post it.
If I had certain facts about something, or new information, then I'd post it, but I'd always hold back on possibly false information, or at least add a disclaimer that I'm unsure, which Tyranid607 did do a few pages back. I think people take rumour too seriously sometimes, which then leads to annoying hype and disappointment. Unless confirmed in solid pictorial or similar form, people should try not to get so heated or exited about these things.
N.I.B. wrote: So, the Cult Ambush rule looks like a disappointment, as random rules in general are. 33% chance of derp table edges. 33% chance of your standard Tyranid PICABOO PLEASE SHOOT ME!. And only a 1/6 chance to actually assault when the unit arrives. Which means for it to be effective you actually need shooty units to build a viable reserve based army around, as every other codex in 40K history and not the meta changing army hinted by the developers. And chances are that the units with 'Cult Ambush' rule aren't of the shooty kind... Tau will laugh it off the table.
Not looking rosy at this point. Of course, there could be things in the codex that gives + to the roll on the chart.
I'll bet you one armless Abaddon that one or more formations have the ability to manipulate rolls on the Cult Ambush chart.
N.I.B. wrote: So, the Cult Ambush rule looks like a disappointment, as random rules in general are. 33% chance of derp table edges. 33% chance of your standard Tyranid PICABOO PLEASE SHOOT ME!. And only a 1/6 chance to actually assault when the unit arrives. Which means for it to be effective you actually need shooty units to build a viable reserve based army around, as every other codex in 40K history and not the meta changing army hinted by the developers. And chances are that the units with 'Cult Ambush' rule aren't of the shooty kind... Tau will laugh it off the table.
Not looking rosy at this point. Of course, there could be things in the codex that gives + to the roll on the chart.
I see it in an entirely different light. Genestealer Cult have some incredibly potent and cheap Troops choices in the form of the Acolyte Hybrids. Being able to freely take those units off the board so that they can't be harmed then have a 66% chance of popping up right in front of the enemy army will make for a lot of guaranteed turn three charges. Heck, even rolling a 2 on that chart is still good as it lets you perform a normal Outflank and the unit is guaranteed to pop up on turn two. This lets you protect your nasty assault units before they get to the front-line and save them at least a turn or two of trying to get into position to possibly charge. It also makes it really easy for the army to grab objectives! Even despite how random the rule is, letting your units go into ongoing reserves on turn one and be guaranteed to pop up turn two and 5/6 results let them arrive very close to enemy units or even just far away from your own deployment zone offers a lot of tactical flexibility.
Besides, if you don't like the rule and what it can do for your army, just take Goliaths instead; I hear assault units love open-topped transports
On the other hand if someone is leaking pre-production info it's possible they would have something to lose (like a job) by being traceable so creating a new 'disposable' account might seem prudent, no?
The Armoured Claw Team doesn't come with a Heavy Weapon Team according to the WD description (at least it neither shows nor mentions it), so that's still a great deal for GSC and even AM players.
But yeah, 29 + 16 for the Heavy Weapon squad = $45, making the GSC FREE(!) in the Neophyte Squad. Even AM players should be buying that bundle and just eBaying the GSC Upgrade Sprue (or using the bits to trophy up their AM squads!).
Kind of crazy. I don't know if GW will be releasing the GSC upgrade sprue on its own, but if they do I suspect it will be about the same time these bundles vanish from stores.
That one is my bad, I'm still waking up.
I was meaning that at the least, the Neophyte Squad is a better deal than most people know.
N.I.B. wrote: So, the Cult Ambush rule looks like a disappointment, as random rules in general are. 33% chance of derp table edges. 33% chance of your standard Tyranid PICABOO PLEASE SHOOT ME!. And only a 1/6 chance to actually assault when the unit arrives. Which means for it to be effective you actually need shooty units to build a viable reserve based army around, as every other codex in 40K history and not the meta changing army hinted by the developers. And chances are that the units with 'Cult Ambush' rule aren't of the shooty kind... Tau will laugh it off the table.
Not looking rosy at this point. Of course, there could be things in the codex that gives + to the roll on the chart.
I'll bet you one armless Abaddon that one or more formations have the ability to manipulate rolls on the Cult Ambush chart.
Agreed.
Most likely Warlord Trait as well.
Let people be negative, it is the trendy thing to do on the interwebs.
I don't even really understand the negativity towards the cult ambush rule. Having only a 1/6 chance of getting a guaranteed and safe turn two charge doesn't instantly invalidate the incredible flexibility and tactical options the rule gives you.
I say this as someone that had to put up with freaking Swooping Hawks pre-grenade nerf, mind you. Ugh.
N.I.B. wrote: So, the Cult Ambush rule looks like a disappointment, as random rules in general are. 33% chance of derp table edges. 33% chance of your standard Tyranid PICABOO PLEASE SHOOT ME!. And only a 1/6 chance to actually assault when the unit arrives. Which means for it to be effective you actually need shooty units to build a viable reserve based army around, as every other codex in 40K history and not the meta changing army hinted by the developers. And chances are that the units with 'Cult Ambush' rule aren't of the shooty kind... Tau will laugh it off the table.
Not looking rosy at this point. Of course, there could be things in the codex that gives + to the roll on the chart.
I'll be surprised if the purestrain formation doesn't give something like a re-roll on this chart.
But honestly, I don't think it's bad. It's a 1 in 6 chance of your reserves acting normally, otherwise it's either free Outflank or various best-of-both crossovers between Infiltrate and Deep Strike. Combined with the very cheap troop units we're going to see I think we'll get enough rolls on this table during a game for it to pay off well.
True, there's a lot of things we don't know yet and the Devil's in the details. IIRC only units with Infiltrate get the Cult Ambush rule. Which can be many units, which would be great! Or only Genestealers, which would suck.
The Armoured Claw Team doesn't come with a Heavy Weapon Team according to the WD description (at least it neither shows nor mentions it), so that's still a great deal for GSC and even AM players.
But yeah, 29 + 16 for the Heavy Weapon squad = $45, making the GSC FREE(!) in the Neophyte Squad. Even AM players should be buying that bundle and just eBaying the GSC Upgrade Sprue (or using the bits to trophy up their AM squads!).
Kind of crazy. I don't know if GW will be releasing the GSC upgrade sprue on its own, but if they do I suspect it will be about the same time these bundles vanish from stores.
That one is my bad, I'm still waking up.
I was meaning that at the least, the Neophyte Squad is a better deal than most people know.
Oh I definitely agree and was just building off what you said. (You aren't the first one to suggest the AC comes with a HWT either. )
Both the Neophyte Squad and the Armoured Claw are amazing deals. I never ended up buying the Deathwatch board game, so I will be starting my GSC almost from scratch (I have an old Cadian Armoured Fist box I never assembled). So these bundles are great deals for me! It's a great change from the former "these are basically the same thing but we're marking up the new one 20% because reasons" pricing we used to see.
Mr_Rose wrote: On the other hand if someone is leaking pre-production info it's possible they would have something to lose (like a job) by being traceable so creating a new 'disposable' account might seem prudent, no?
That I completely understand.. I would never leak anything with a non disposable user behind some serious protection of a one time internet connection.
So that's not the issue for me, it only makes me just a bit skeptical . Its that he or she started to remove past predictions as soon as they became less likely that makes me doubt the validity of this source.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It seems very strange to actually have the book, start leaking vague and non interesting things like Ap's of weapons etc. Only to remove them later and come up with the shocking stuff later on when most other players can kinda piece them together from what is out there.
The most natural reaction of a players tumbling on something would be to immediately release things like army and detachment specific rules wouldn't it ?
Cultists entering table from ongoing reserves gain d6 models lost previously in the battle. Not sure if it works with purestrains or aberrants. I read that on the fuzzy BOLs video. It's a command benefit of the cult insurrection decurion.
tetrisphreak wrote: Cultists entering table from ongoing reserves gain d6 models lost previously in the battle. Not sure if it works with purestrains or aberrants. I read that on the fuzzy BOLs video. It's a command benefit of the cult insurrection decurion.
Surprised nobody else has mentioned it.
That's really damn good. Say your opponent gets first turn. They kill some of your infantry but perhaps not the whole unit because you cower in cover. Your turn, you jump into reserves and keep the unit alive. Your next turn, the unit re-appears and is highly likely (5/6 results let you pop up either in or near your opponents' deployment zone) to appear on an objective you need to take or close to the enemy to set up a next turn assault (or an assault on that turn if you're lucky) while also healing D6 models. The rule is also funny because as long as your units don't flee the board you can essentially keep recycling them and refreshing their numbers to win the objective game or just generally denying victory points. Also another funny idea; an assault unit is closing on your lines, then your slower units instantly disappear and your faster units just dance around them. Won't work in every game obviously but I'm looking forward to seeing the shenanigans people pull off with the army.
Mr_Rose wrote: On the other hand if someone is leaking pre-production info it's possible they would have something to lose (like a job) by being traceable so creating a new 'disposable' account might seem prudent, no?
That I completely understand.. I would never leak anything with a non disposable user behind some serious protection of a one time internet connection.
So that's not the issue for me, it only makes me just a bit skeptical . Its that he or she started to remove past predictions as soon as they became less likely that makes me doubt the validity of this source.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It seems very strange to actually have the book, start leaking vague and non interesting things like Ap's of weapons etc. Only to remove them later and come up with the shocking stuff later on when most other players can kinda piece them together from what is out there.
The most natural reaction of a players tumbling on something would be to immediately release things like army and detachment specific rules wouldn't it ?
I have a quick look at the codex at first, I don't really spend time on the detail of formation and special rules
I just have time to see what new units are included and how many pts they are before.
But you guys want more detail of the dex , as I promised I will give out the detail now
It is totally alright if you think I am trolling around.
Motograter wrote: The gs cult datacards are the last of the datacards. No more updates after these. Sign 8th wont use datacards?
Nope, sign that there will be a tiny update and a chance for GW to sell us new ones.
Not really. None of the aos updated forces came with cards when they had them before.
To be fair, the only things we had before were spell lores with WHFB.
Cards for the various factions in 40k are Tactical Objectives and unique lores as well.
This is something I wanted to bring back up.
So, there's a bunch of datacard sets now listed as "Last Chance to Buy".
The complete listing is:
Raven Guard
White Scars
Farsight Enclaves
Khorne Daemonkin
Harlequin
Imperial Knights(No Longer Available)
Cadians
Skitarii
Cult Mechanicus
Space Marines
Craftworld Eldar(No Longer Available)
Dark Angels
Out of all of those, you have three sets which came bundled with psychic powers as part of them(Harlequin, Craftworld Eldar, and Dark Angels).
You have another four sets(Raven Guard, White Scars, Farsight Enclaves, and Cadians) with Warlord traits.
Space Marines detailed Chapter Tactics and Combat Doctrines with their cards, Daemonkin did the "Blood for the Blood God!" rewards, Knights did the Heirlooms of the Knightly Houses, and Skitarii did the Doctrina Imperatives while Cult Mechanicus did the Canticles of the Omnissiah.
Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults are, currently, the only two sets of cards not marked as "While Stocks Last" on the US webstore.
There is now rumor flying around that this means datacards are going away with the new edition...but if that were the case, we wouldn't have seen cards released for those two period, would we?
Hey mate, what are the stats on weapons like the Seismic Cannon, Webber Gun and the other weapons the Goliaths' can use? Can all Genestealer Cult infantry units innately make use of the ambush and into the shadows rules (or whatever it's called) or only certain units or in certain detachments? What does the Iconward do? What is the difference between Hybrid Metamorphs and Acolyte Hybrids? Are Acolyte Hybrids like the ones in Deathwatch: Overkill or can they be outfitted to be that way (i.e. Fearless). Cheers!
Motograter wrote: The gs cult datacards are the last of the datacards. No more updates after these. Sign 8th wont use datacards?
Nope, sign that there will be a tiny update and a chance for GW to sell us new ones.
Not really. None of the aos updated forces came with cards when they had them before.
To be fair, the only things we had before were spell lores with WHFB.
Cards for the various factions in 40k are Tactical Objectives and unique lores as well.
This is something I wanted to bring back up.
So, there's a bunch of datacard sets now listed as "Last Chance to Buy".
The complete listing is:
Raven Guard
White Scars
Farsight Enclaves
Khorne Daemonkin
Harlequin
Imperial Knights(No Longer Available)
Cadians
Skitarii
Cult Mechanicus
Space Marines
Craftworld Eldar(No Longer Available)
Dark Angels
Out of all of those, you have three sets which came bundled with psychic powers as part of them(Harlequin, Craftworld Eldar, and Dark Angels).
You have another four sets(Raven Guard, White Scars, Farsight Enclaves, and Cadians) with Warlord traits.
Space Marines detailed Chapter Tactics and Combat Doctrines with their cards, Daemonkin did the "Blood for the Blood God!" rewards, Knights did the Heirlooms of the Knightly Houses, and Skitarii did the Doctrina Imperatives while Cult Mechanicus did the Canticles of the Omnissiah.
Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults are, currently, the only two sets of cards not marked as "While Stocks Last" on the US webstore.
There is now rumor flying around that this means datacards are going away with the new edition...but if that were the case, we wouldn't have seen cards released for those two period, would we?
as far as I know datacard have always been limited, so I'm not sure if you should read to much in it
There is now rumor flying around that this means datacards are going away with the new edition...but if that were the case, we wouldn't have seen cards released for those two period, would we?
as far as I know datacard have always been limited, so I'm not sure if you should read to much in it
That's the point I'm trying to get across actually.
All of those cards, barring the two new sets, are listed as "Last Chance to Buy"...but some of them have effectively been sold out for months, if not years in the case of Craftworld Eldar.
I probably missed it and I'm too lazy to read through all the pages ... I think it's time to start a new army (that I'll never finish painting).
So, is there a post that's got all the info from what's in the book? Like, which units are there gonna be (besides what's on the GW site right now), and which ones are Troops or HQ or whatever? Can you use any tyranid models? Assuming Genestealers, but anything else? I'd like to buy what I need to get started in 1 fell swoop, would be great if I could mix in some of my old nids.
gorgon wrote: It's gak like that causes people who know things to become reluctant to even post it.
And it's the unquestioning "Schrodinger's Rumour" attitude some wish to encourage that's given birth to clickbait factories like BoLS and Naffy.
If people are so fragile they can't deal with somebody doubting their at-that-time unverifiable information until they build up a rep for honesty and accuracy, you have to wonder how they've managed to survive in life with such a tissue-thin skin.
People being arses is another matter, but skepticism isn't a bad thing and that alone doesn't make you an arse.
I have a quick look at the codex at first, I don't really spend time on the detail of formation and special rules
I just have time to see what new units are included and how many pts they are before.
But you guys want more detail of the dex , as I promised I will give out the detail now
It is totally alright if you think I am trolling around.
Kanluwen wrote: There is now rumor flying around that this means datacards are going away with the new edition...but if that were the case, we wouldn't have seen cards released for those two period, would we?
If they'd sell and players could use them for the next 9(?) months...why not?
Edit: Note that I agree that people shouldn't read too much into the while stocks last thing.
tetrisphreak wrote: Cultists entering table from ongoing reserves gain d6 models lost previously in the battle. Not sure if it works with purestrains or aberrants. I read that on the fuzzy BOLs video. It's a command benefit of the cult insurrection decurion.
Surprised nobody else has mentioned it.
That's really damn good. Say your opponent gets first turn. They kill some of your infantry but perhaps not the whole unit because you cower in cover. Your turn, you jump into reserves and keep the unit alive. Your next turn, the unit re-appears and is highly likely (5/6 results let you pop up either in or near your opponents' deployment zone) to appear on an objective you need to take or close to the enemy to set up a next turn assault (or an assault on that turn if you're lucky) while also healing D6 models. The rule is also funny because as long as your units don't flee the board you can essentially keep recycling them and refreshing their numbers to win the objective game or just generally denying victory points. Also another funny idea; an assault unit is closing on your lines, then your slower units instantly disappear and your faster units just dance around them. Won't work in every game obviously but I'm looking forward to seeing the shenanigans people pull off with the army.
Imagining a Wolfstar getting just close enough for a next-turn charge on some Purestrains only for them to disappear.
Imagining a Wolfstar getting just close enough for a next-turn charge on some Purestrains only for them to disappear.
Actually, combining this with Neophyte Hybrids and that restore D6 models thing would be absolutely unfair against Orks/Tyranids/slow moving assault armies now that I think about it. Just keep zipping around and shooting them from every direction!
Caederes wrote: Hey mate, what are the stats on weapons like the Seismic Cannon, Webber Gun and the other weapons the Goliaths' can use? Can all Genestealer Cult infantry units innately make use of the ambush and into the shadows rules (or whatever it's called) or only certain units or in certain detachments? What does the Iconward do? What is the difference between Hybrid Metamorphs and Acolyte Hybrids? Are Acolyte Hybrids like the ones in Deathwatch: Overkill or can they be outfitted to be that way (i.e. Fearless). Cheers!
1. goliath rockgrrinder default come with heavy stubber + heavy mining laser + drilldozer blade, can replace mining laser with clearance incinerator or heavy seismic cannon
Heavy mining laser 36" S9 AP2 Heavy 1
Heavy seismic 0-12" S8 AP3 Heavy 2 / 12-24" S5 AP4 Heavy 6, with special rule To wound roll or APen roll of 6 always resolved at AP1
drilldozer blade is very interesting to me, it auto pass dangerous terrain test + RAMS enemy vehicle add an extra D6 to S to hit, if cause pen hit add 1 to result of damage table and when performs a tank shock, each enemys the vehicle reach must take a intiative test before taking a morale check. if int test is passed, the unit avoid the cutter but if fail, the enemy suffer D3 S10 Ap2 hit. if enemy unit make a death or glory attack on drilldozer vehicle and fail to stop it, the unit suffer an additional D3 S10 AP2 hit
2. all hybrid and genestealer can do cult ambush and return to shadows, no detechments is needed
3. Iconward other then the sacred relics it can choose to carry
the banner give freindly unit of generstealer faction within 12" gain furious charge and feel no pain(6+) if model already have feel no pain then 1+ to it
4.the stat of Metamorphs and Acolyte Hybrid is very similar, one can take heavy rock cutter/drill/saw, which is basically power fist with special ability, the other one is +2S in sub fight or +3I or +2 ws depends on what it is carrying
Watching that video BoLS posted up...we got full rules now! I'll do a summary for anyone that is anti-BoLS or doesn't have the time to watch it.
Their super-detachment is as normal, 1-6 Core, 1+ Auxiliary, 0-3(?) Command. You can't have more than one Patriarch, Magus and Primus in the Cult Insurrection detachment (super detachment) which is a bummer. Patriarch gets a codex warlord trait re-roll, all non-vehicle units gets Infiltrate, if they already have Infiltrate then they get Shrouded for the first game turn, you add 1 to reserve rolls and enemies subtract 1 from reserve rolls. All units that arrive from ongoing reserves gain D6 models back that were killed earlier in the game.
The two Core formations are very different; one has most of the units in the codex, the other is Neophyte Hybrids and the IG tanks - mandatory Leman Russ squadron and Sentinel squadrons.
THE STATS FOR THE MODELS HAVE CHANGED SINCE DEATHWATCH OVERKILL!
The Patriarch is now 90 points but is Strength 6, starts off as a ML1 psyker but can buy ML2, can buy two Familiars on the cheap and gets access to Biomancy, Broodmind and Telepathy. He also confers Fearless to all friendly Genestealer Cult units within 12". Yikes!
The Magus is 40, comes with Adamantium Will and Infiltrate now, is ML1 base but can pay for ML2 and gets the same disciplines as the Patriarch, he also gives Adamantium Will to all Genestealer Cult units within 12". Yikesx2!
Chimera and Sentinel data-shoots look identical to the Astra Militarum versions, still BS3.
Goliath rules confirmed per Tyranid607, the normal Goliath is an open-topped transport!
The First Curse formation does the following; 1 Patriarch, 1 Purestrain Genestealer unit, you roll a D6 before the start of the game and add the result to the Purestrain Genestealers for the whole game; 1: they get assault grenades, 2: they get 4+ armor, 3: they get Poisoned melee attacks, 4: they get Rage, 5: they get Preferred Enemy, 6: you pick which one you want.
That small Core formation I mentioned earlier with the Neophytes and IG tanks does the following; Neophytes have to take Chimeras as DTs, all vehicles get Outflank and the Scout Sentinels get Cult Ambush (this works with that restore D6 models rule in the Cult Insurrection detachment???), ignores stunned and shaken on a 4+.
They also show the profiles at the back (meaning stats only) here's what we got;
Acolyte Iconward; basically a Primus but only 2 wounds and LD9. Primus; now has WS5 and 3 Wounds. The stats for Acolytes and Neophytes remain the same, they now have unit leaders with +1 Leadership and Attacks. Weapon Teams for Neophytes are in and are the same as IG except for +1 Initiative and LD just like the actual Neophytes. Metamorphs look to have the same stats as Acolyte Hybrids but are Elites, presumably they will have extra special rules and nastier weapons. Purestrain Genestealers look to have 3 attacks base now but are otherwise the same.
The weapons list confirms that the Leman Russ variants in the standard Leman Russ kit are the only ones available. The Clearance Incinerator is a S5 AP4 Torrent Template weapon. The Heavy Mining Laser is just a Mining Laser with 36" range. The Heavy Seismic Cannon is either Heavy 3(or 2?) and S8 AP3 at 0-12", or S5(?) AP4 Heavy 6 at 12-24", and both have the "Resonance" or something akin to that special rule. Normal Seismic Cannon is the same, just with one less shot in the first profile and two less shots in the second profile. The Webber weapons fire blasts and are S3 (pistol) and S4 (rifle), they also have some over special rule that looks to be different to the one the Seismic Cannons have. The Rock Cutter, Rock Drill and Rock Saw are all basically power fists, the cutter has some special rule I can't make out (maybe Shred?), the drill has "Pulverize", the saw has Armorbane, all of them are two-handed. Metamorph weapons now, they are all S: user but have different special rules, it looks like at least one of them is AP3 and their special rules seem to be unique/new. There's also something called a Power xxx or something that is Unwieldy, Two Handed, AP2, I can't make out the strength and has a few special rules.
so reading that blurry pic from bols vid, relics are:
dagger of swift sacrifice
staff of subterranean mastery
icon of cult ascension
sword of v**** eye
c****
scourge of D**** stars?
Also our psykers have access to biomancy(sp?) telepathy and broodmind but start level one and can only buy to level 2
Caederes wrote: Hey mate, what are the stats on weapons like the Seismic Cannon, Webber Gun and the other weapons the Goliaths' can use? Can all Genestealer Cult infantry units innately make use of the ambush and into the shadows rules (or whatever it's called) or only certain units or in certain detachments? What does the Iconward do? What is the difference between Hybrid Metamorphs and Acolyte Hybrids? Are Acolyte Hybrids like the ones in Deathwatch: Overkill or can they be outfitted to be that way (i.e. Fearless). Cheers!
1. goliath rockgrrinder default come with heavy stubber + heavy mining laser + drilldozer blade, can replace mining laser with clearance incinerator or heavy seismic cannon
Heavy mining laser 36" S9 AP2 Heavy 1
Heavy seismic 0-12" S8 AP3 Heavy 2 / 12-24" S5 AP4 Heavy 6, with special rule To wound roll or APen roll of 6 always resolved at AP1
drilldozer blade is very interesting to me, it auto pass dangerous terrain test + RAMS enemy vehicle add an extra D6 to S to hit, if cause pen hit add 1 to result of damage table and when performs a tank shock, each enemys the vehicle reach must take a intiative test before taking a morale check. if int test is passed, the unit avoid the cutter but if fail, the enemy suffer D3 S10 Ap2 hit. if enemy unit make a death or glory attack on drilldozer vehicle and fail to stop it, the unit suffer an additional D3 S10 AP2 hit
2. all hybrid and genestealer can do cult ambush and return to shadows, no detechments is needed
3. Iconward other then the sacred relics it can choose to carry
the banner give freindly unit of generstealer faction within 12" gain furious charge and feel no pain(6+) if model already have feel no pain then 1+ to it
4.the stat of Metamorphs and Acolyte Hybrid is very similar, one can take heavy rock cutter/drill/saw, which is basically power fist with special ability, the other one is +2S in sub fight or +3I or +2 ws depends on what it is carrying
Cheers!
So the Seismic Cannons can either have a few guaranteed high Strength AP3 shots or lots of Strength 5 AP4 shots, but you get AP1 on 6s to wound/penetrate which is pretty darned cool.
The Drilldozer Blade sounds absolutely bonkers. High strength Ram attack, +1 to vehicle damage chart, and the tank shocking....yikes. Low Initiative armies are going to cry, and death or glory is likely going to be a bad idea against it too.
So we now know all the infantry get Cult Ambush and Return to Shadows, with how those rules work and the buff that happens in the detachment, that's really strong!
The Iconward follows the trend of the Patriarch and Magus of giving out buffs to all friendly units within 12", Furious Charge and FNP 6+ or +1 to FNP....combine with Biomancy that the Genestealer Cult now gets for maximum hilarity. The Cult characters seem really powerful to me for their points. The Iconward might be worth it just for that Feel No Pain alone.
I like the sound of the Metamorphs, basically hyper powered Acolytes. The Acolytes are already deadly in a melee so getting any of those buffs sounds like fun, especially as one of their weapons looks to be AP3.
Hey guys, the Scout Sentinels in the Neophyte Cavalcade formation get the rule that lets them go into ongoing reserves and pop up near enemy lines via Cult Ambush. The detachment bonus for the Cult Insurrection detachment specifies all units resurrect D6 models when they arrive from ongoing reserves.
I didn't see anything about a 5+ invulnerable save in that formations' rules. Apparently Purestrains now have a 5+ invulnerable save standard? Or that might be only if they are with the Patriarch? Either way....
Wow.
Motograter wrote: The gs cult datacards are the last of the datacards. No more updates after these. Sign 8th wont use datacards?
Nope, sign that there will be a tiny update and a chance for GW to sell us new ones.
Not really. None of the aos updated forces came with cards when they had them before.
To be fair, the only things we had before were spell lores with WHFB.
Cards for the various factions in 40k are Tactical Objectives and unique lores as well.
This is something I wanted to bring back up.
So, there's a bunch of datacard sets now listed as "Last Chance to Buy".
The complete listing is:
Raven Guard
White Scars
Farsight Enclaves
Khorne Daemonkin
Harlequin
Imperial Knights(No Longer Available)
Cadians
Skitarii
Cult Mechanicus
Space Marines
Craftworld Eldar(No Longer Available)
Dark Angels
Out of all of those, you have three sets which came bundled with psychic powers as part of them(Harlequin, Craftworld Eldar, and Dark Angels).
You have another four sets(Raven Guard, White Scars, Farsight Enclaves, and Cadians) with Warlord traits.
Space Marines detailed Chapter Tactics and Combat Doctrines with their cards, Daemonkin did the "Blood for the Blood God!" rewards, Knights did the Heirlooms of the Knightly Houses, and Skitarii did the Doctrina Imperatives while Cult Mechanicus did the Canticles of the Omnissiah.
Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults are, currently, the only two sets of cards not marked as "While Stocks Last" on the US webstore.
There is now rumor flying around that this means datacards are going away with the new edition...but if that were the case, we wouldn't have seen cards released for those two period, would we?
Lol that last bit. Have you met gw? Yes we would. We've seen them do worse. These cards are tiny in comparison. When you e been playing since 2nd ed you get used to stuff like this
1. goliath rockgrrinder default come with heavy stubber + heavy mining laser + drilldozer blade, can replace mining laser with clearance incinerator or heavy seismic cannon
Heavy mining laser 36" S9 AP2 Heavy 1
Heavy seismic 0-12" S8 AP3 Heavy 2 / 12-24" S5 AP4 Heavy 6, with special rule To wound roll or APen roll of 6 always resolved at AP1
drilldozer blade is very interesting to me, it auto pass dangerous terrain test + RAMS enemy vehicle add an extra D6 to S to hit, if cause pen hit add 1 to result of damage table and when performs a tank shock, each enemys the vehicle reach must take a intiative test before taking a morale check. if int test is passed, the unit avoid the cutter but if fail, the enemy suffer D3 S10 Ap2 hit. if enemy unit make a death or glory attack on drilldozer vehicle and fail to stop it, the unit suffer an additional D3 S10 AP2 hit
Neophyte Cavalcade:
2 Neophytes plus a Chimera each
1 Leman Russ
1-2 Sentinels
Talk about unit taxes...
Sorry, my Guard can't hear you with having to field 15 Infantry Squads and a minimum of 3 Sentinels or a minimum of 5 Leman Russ hulls and an Enginseer as their Core tax for their big Detachment...
Caederes wrote: Hey guys, the Scout Sentinels in the Neophyte Cavalcade formation get the rule that lets them go into ongoing reserves and pop up near enemy lines via Cult Ambush. The detachment bonus for the Cult Insurrection detachment specifies all units resurrect D6 models when they arrive from ongoing reserves.
I didn't see anything about a 5+ invulnerable save in that formations' rules. Apparently Purestrains now have a 5+ invulnerable save standard? Or that might be only if they are with the Patriarch? Either way....
Wow.
yes, they do have 5+ inv as standard profile, no formation is needed
Ok, I had my doubts but the Cult is actually sounding both fun and pretty powerful. All the infantry get Cult Ambush and Return to the Shadows (basically a random version of the Swooping Hawks ability, but with all of your dudes and the potential to allow charging from reserves, will be really strong for objective games and scoring things like Linebreaker or protecting your victory points, i.e. ESPECIALLY the Warlord). The vehicles are carbon copies of the Astra Militarum units but combined with the superior Genestealer Cult units, and the new Goliath tanks give the Cult an assault transport as well as a really powerful ramming machine (one or the other). Their characters dole out some pretty powerful area-of-effect abilities like Fearless, Adamantium Will, Furious Charge and Feel No Pain 6+. The Purestrains appear to have 5+ invulnerable saves and three attacks base, the Metamorphs get lots of stat boosts and weapon upgrades over the Acolytes, meaning the Cult has some really deadly assault units.
Then we get to things like the psykers of the army having access to three disciplines; jury is out on Broodmind but gaining Biomancy is a big deal. Their detachment bonuses are also really funny and can lead to things like resurrecting Scout Sentinels (I'm not kidding, per the rules as written, that's what happens) who pop in and out of reserves, resurrecting infantry units who also pop in and out of reserves, Shrouded Purestrains, all infantry in the army gaining Infiltrate, some powerful weapons (the Seismic weapons look decent for their cost) and versatility (hello Leman Russes). Hell, even if you are a Tyranid player, Leman Russ Vanquishers give you *something* that can deal with heavy armor at long range more reliably than the Tyrannofex! It looks like the existing units from Overkill got buffed too with added special rules, weapon choices, character upgrades and even stat boosts (the Patriarch is now S6!). Another thing that's really funny...the Chimera appears to allow Genestealers and Patriarchs to be carried in it; the Goliaths have that special rule in their entry, but the Chimera doesn't!
This looks like it will be a really fun army. The basic infantry choices are all strong for their points and Acolytes are one of the deadlier infantry units in the game for their points, and it's really easy to gain them Infiltrate and a form of resurrection as well as other means of closing with the enemy. Lots of buffs to Purestrain Genestealers (!), characters that majorly buff the rest of the army and are high value or damaging themselves (trust me, you do not want to have an Unwieldy weapon and go against the Primus, especially as he is WS5 now, Rending + Bonesword = please have mercy), a good selection of vehicles including open-topped and enclosed transports as well as heavy tanks. I like it. I like it a LOT.
yes, they do have 5+ inv as standard profile, no formation is needed
Guys. Guys. Purestrain Genestealers have 3 attacks base now (from what I can tell from the stat page) and a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
Wow. They also get Shrouded for the first game turn in the Cult Insurrection detachment and have an in-built means of disappearing and reappearing around the battlefield.
With how good the Patriarch (he's extremely good for his points even if you don't upgrade him) is and how nice their formation is, are we going to start seeing a lot more Genestealers on the battlefield?
And other than the goliath, there is a unit looks a lot like the IG Cadian Heavy Weapon Squad with the name of genestealer cult on it. announcing next week.
but still no availability info of aberrants
and acolyte/metamorphs shares the same box, there is a good chance you can get one of this box and build the new item with deathwatch model
Cheers for all your answers Tyranid607, the codex leak confirms everything you've said so far. We really appreciate it!
There's still a few things I think we're all eager to find out though;
What are the Broodmind powers?
What are the Warlord Traits?
What are the Relics and what do they do?
Lastly, what are the points costs like on the units? Thanks again!
yes, they do have 5+ inv as standard profile, no formation is needed
Guys. Guys. Purestrain Genestealers have 3 attacks base now (from what I can tell from the stat page) and a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
Wow. They also get Shrouded for the first game turn in the Cult Insurrection detachment and have an in-built means of disappearing and reappearing around the battlefield.
Points cost matters, but yeah, it looks like they finally acknowledged that 4 arms and teeth should net you more than 2 attacks. FINALLY some changes to the basic profile.
Had a quick look through the new white dwarf when I got home from work. My god the new cult minis look sweet. Hmm do I need another new force.
Would look good against my Krieg tank company. Love the new wheeled truck.
yes, they do have 5+ inv as standard profile, no formation is needed
Guys. Guys. Purestrain Genestealers have 3 attacks base now (from what I can tell from the stat page) and a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
Wow. They also get Shrouded for the first game turn in the Cult Insurrection detachment and have an in-built means of disappearing and reappearing around the battlefield.
Points cost matters, but yeah, it looks like they finally acknowledged that 4 arms and teeth should net you more than 2 attacks. FINALLY some changes to the basic profile.
I checked his earlier posts, apparently they are 13 points each. Not sure how much better a 13 point Genestealer with 3 attacks base and a 5+ invulnerable save along with all the extra special rules like Hit and Run and so on are than the ones in the Tyranid codex though, I haven't looked at them in ages. I'm guessing the answer is "hugely"? They sound like they could actually be a decent unit now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for the Cults alliance with other armies, Tyranid607 confirmed they are Allies of Convenience with Astra Militarum and Tyranids, but are Come the Apocalypse with everyone else.
If anyone wants a summary of all the leaked rules stuff we have so far, check my post in the previous page; it's a large one and hard to miss.
If you want a summary on this page, basically, Genestealers themselves have been mega-buffed and the codex looks like it's going to be really fun, unique and seemingly fairly powerful too.
Thematically, they should have no allies, but I bet they end up being desperate allies to the Astra Militarum or possibly the forces of Chaos.
I'm hoping for that to be the case, as CSM/KDK are my primary armies. Less about being "allies" in the truest sense as the cult capitalizing on a chaos incursion to take out the stronger force before taking out the chaos forces. Or, the Khornate dudes taking whatever skulls they can to maximize bloodshed.
*edit*
Well, nuts to that idea. It can still work, I'll just have to be more careful.
Caederes wrote: Cheers for all your answers Tyranid607, the codex leak confirms everything you've said so far. We really appreciate it!
There's still a few things I think we're all eager to find out though;
What are the Broodmind powers?
What are the Warlord Traits?
What are the Relics and what do they do?
Lastly, what are the points costs like on the units? Thanks again!
Just re-posting for the new page so hopefully Tyranid607 sees it Thanks again buddy.
Mr Morden wrote: Well next thing is to ask the FAQ boys to update the Tyranid ones in the same way as they updated Marine Dreadnought attacks
Doubtful - the designer preview video they specifically said the genestealers sent out ahead of the Hive Fleets are better versions than the more disposable shock troops in a Tyranid force.
Caederes wrote: As for the Cults alliance with other armies, Tyranid607 confirmed they are Allies of Convenience with Astra Militarum and Tyranids, but are Come the Apocalypse with everyone else.
I would have expected them to be Come the Apocalypse with everything - I guess their reasoning for Tyranids is some kind of control over the invasion force to leave the Genestealer Cult as their last meal, but I always thought they would have been indiscriminately devoured upon sight by any Tyranid outside of the Cult.
As for Astra Militarum... I was hoping my statement was a joke and nothing more. Unfortunately, it's worse. I don't really care about the consequences of their potential allies game wise, only lore wise, which I deem to be unconvincing.
yes, they do have 5+ inv as standard profile, no formation is needed
Guys. Guys. Purestrain Genestealers have 3 attacks base now (from what I can tell from the stat page) and a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
Wow. They also get Shrouded for the first game turn in the Cult Insurrection detachment and have an in-built means of disappearing and reappearing around the battlefield.
Points cost matters, but yeah, it looks like they finally acknowledged that 4 arms and teeth should net you more than 2 attacks. FINALLY some changes to the basic profile.
I checked his earlier posts, apparently they are 13 points each. Not sure how much better a 13 point Genestealer with 3 attacks base and a 5+ invulnerable save along with all the extra special rules like Hit and Run and so on are than the ones in the Tyranid codex though, I haven't looked at them in ages. I'm guessing the answer is "hugely"? They sound like they could actually be a decent unit now.
Well, thats 1 extra attack base, a 5+invuln that they didn't have before and hopefully they've kept the Hit and Run and maybe even Stealth from the DW:O set. And if they're really 13ppm, it's all that for 1 point less than they are in the Nids Codex!
AM makes perfect sense as allies for the Cult, as every single human model in an army with Cult units in it can be considered a Brood Brother (or whatever they're called right now).
Hell, it makes more sense for the Cult to ally with AM than it does for them to get along with Nids. Nids should have no allies whatsoever.
Due to the Broodmind of the Cult I would think the Tyranid Hive Mind would see them as a friendly asset to utilise until the planet is conquored and everything gets eaten anyway (including the nid ground forces).
Not sure why people keep thinking nids would insta-nom the GSC.
Caederes wrote: As for the Cults alliance with other armies, Tyranid607 confirmed they are Allies of Convenience with Astra Militarum and Tyranids, but are Come the Apocalypse with everyone else.
I would have expected them to be Come the Apocalypse with everything - I guess their reasoning for Tyranids is some kind of control over the invasion force to leave the Genestealer Cult as their last meal, but I always thought they would have been indiscriminately devoured upon sight by any Tyranid outside of the Cult.
As for Astra Militarum... I was hoping my statement was a joke and nothing more. Unfortunately, it's worse. I don't really care about the consequences of their potential allies game wise, only lore wise, which I deem to be unconvincing.
You find the idea that they can infiltrate and take over a locally stationed AM regiment unconvincing? You do know thats a large part of the point of a Genestealer Cult?
So its possible to build mulitple unit of super stealers that can infiltrate at 20 with 5 plus inv and 3+ fnp with shrouded on first turn whilst also been able go back into reserve to not only avoid shutting but heal d6 of their numbers plus possibly assault next turn, also you can have one uber unit that gains assault grenades (1 third of the time). this is great!
Icon of the Cult Ascendant Friendly units that have the Genestealer Cult Faction and are withing 12" of a model equipped with the Icon of the Cult Ascendant have the Furious Charge special rule and can re-roll failed Morale, Pinning and Fear tests. In addition, models in the same unit as the Icon of the Cult Ascendant have +1 whilst the bearer is alive
Dagger of Swift Sacrifice Strenght User, AP -, Melee, Istant Death, Poisoned 2+
Scourge of Distant Stars Whilst in a challenge with the bearer, the opponent must first make a Toughness test. If the opponent does not pass such test, he immediately takes a Wound with any kind of save allowed and gets his Attacks and Initiative characteristics reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1) until the end of the Fight subphase-
Staff of the Subterrenean Master Range 18", Strenght 2, AP -, Assault 10, Ignores Cover, Rending
Sword of the Void's Eye Strenght +1, AP 3, Melee, Bio-sentience (Reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls of 1), Life Drain (Istant Death on a To Wound roll of 6)
The Crouchling Adds another +2 Strenght 4, AP -, Rending melee attacks (perhaps stackable with both the 2 familiars you can take for every character) and gives you another ADDITIONAL (so only Patriarch and Magus) Psychic power at the start of the game
Motograter wrote: The gs cult datacards are the last of the datacards. No more updates after these. Sign 8th wont use datacards?
One can hope because this sounds like the death of the random freakin table roll for everything. My guess is this means GW is trying to make games faster by removing some of the excessive setup time and random riling elements.
You still roll for table side, you would still roll for objectives, and still roll for first turn/ deploy and still roll for night fighting.
This would change nothing for rolling.
Unless you were too lazy to own the cards and had people wait on you to roll your cards every turn.
Plus this does not effect the generic deck or the new deck.
Completely off topic but we are talking about 8th Ed and you should not know of any of that is true. Hence why I said I hope there is less random table rolls.
Caederes wrote: Cheers for all your answers Tyranid607, the codex leak confirms everything you've said so far. We really appreciate it!
There's still a few things I think we're all eager to find out though;
What are the Broodmind powers?
What are the Warlord Traits?
What are the Relics and what do they do?
Lastly, what are the points costs like on the units? Thanks again!
broodmind
primars power warp charge 1/ malediction single unit within 24" reduce WS/BS/I/A by 1 to a min of 1
psychic stimulus warp charge 1/ blessing frdly unit not in combat gain relentless and fleet, can charge even ran in shooting phase
psionic blast 1/ witchfire 24" S5 Ap3 Assult 1 Blast
Might from beyond 1/ blessing a frdly unit 24" +1S and gain rage
mental onslaught 2/ focussed witchfire 24" both Psyker and target model roll a dice + LDS, if drawn target model -3I until next turn. if Psyker is higher, target suffer wound equal to the difference and no armor and cover saves are allowed
mind control 2/ focussed witchfire targets a single non-vehicle unit not lock in combat and makes shooting attack exactly as if it were one of your model
telepathic summons 2 or 3/ choose 2 or 3, conjuration create a single unit , 2 = 5 Acolyte or 5 Metamorphs or 10 Neophyte, 3 = 10 Acolyte or 10 Metamorphs or 20 Neophyte or 4 aberants or 8 genestealer, these model can be equipped with ANY UPGRADES list on their data sheet
Warlord trait
1. Steath
2. frdly unit of GSC have counter-attack with 12" of warlord
3. Move through cover, warlord and his unit never suffer penalty to I for charging through difficult terrain
4.It will not die
5. all model in your warlords detachment can use his LD 6.When using vult ambush with any unit he joined, do not roll on the ambush table, you can choose a result
relics
1.icon of the cult/ frdly unit within 12" of bearer have furious charge and can reroll failed Morale/pinning/feat test, model in same unit of bearer +1 A
2. dagger of swift sacrifice/ can instead make a single atk rolling to hit as normal S user Instant Death/Poisoned(2+)
3. Scourge of distat stars/ bearer involved in a challenge, their opponent must pas a T test before any attack are made, if fail that model suffer a wound with no save of any kind allowd and -1 I + Auntil the end of phase
4 staff of the subterran master / shooting attack 18" S2 AP- Assauly 10/Ignore cover/Rending
5 Sword of the void's eye/ +1S AP3, reroll to hit and to wound of 1 and to wound of 6 has the instant death rule
6. the crouchling in CCB make additional 2 S4 AP- Rending attack, bearer can generate one additional psychic power at the start of game
yes, they do have 5+ inv as standard profile, no formation is needed
Guys. Guys. Purestrain Genestealers have 3 attacks base now (from what I can tell from the stat page) and a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
Wow. They also get Shrouded for the first game turn in the Cult Insurrection detachment and have an in-built means of disappearing and reappearing around the battlefield.
Points cost matters, but yeah, it looks like they finally acknowledged that 4 arms and teeth should net you more than 2 attacks. FINALLY some changes to the basic profile.
I checked his earlier posts, apparently they are 13 points each. Not sure how much better a 13 point Genestealer with 3 attacks base and a 5+ invulnerable save along with all the extra special rules like Hit and Run and so on are than the ones in the Tyranid codex though, I haven't looked at them in ages. I'm guessing the answer is "hugely"? They sound like they could actually be a decent unit now.
Well, thats 1 extra attack base, a 5+invuln that they didn't have before and hopefully they've kept the Hit and Run and maybe even Stealth from the DW:O set. And if they're really 13ppm, it's all that for 1 point less than they are in the Nids Codex!
no model in the codex can hit and run
genestealers special rules are Cult ambush/Fleet/infiltrate/Moe through cover/return to shadows/steath
oldzoggy wrote: When he posts something new and true, Then I am going to post an excuse to the user with 30 post, that until now only has posted rumors that are quite safe and removed all falls hoods by edits.
I just say don't get your hopes up, only based on Tyranid607's posts
His Master's Voice wrote:AM makes perfect sense as allies for the Cult, as every single human model in an army with Cult units in it can be considered a Brood Brother (or whatever they're called right now).
Hell, it makes more sense for the Cult to ally with AM than it does for them to get along with Nids. Nids should have no allies whatsoever.
Imateria wrote: You find the idea that they can infiltrate and take over a locally stationed AM regiment unconvincing? You do know thats a large part of the point of a Genestealer Cult?
So why aren't they declared as Battle Brothers then? Also, explain how special characters will factor into an alliance while still being lore friendly - it makes more sense for IG equipment to just be included in their Codex, or a disclaimer saying they can use X specific units from the AM Codex.
Nostromodamus wrote:Due to the Broodmind of the Cult I would think the Tyranid Hive Mind would see them as a friendly asset to utilise until the planet is conquered and everything gets eaten anyway (including the nid ground forces).
Not sure why people keep thinking nids would insta-nom the GSC.
Guess that's open to interpretation - I can't find anything to disclose this either way, only this from Lexicanum: "However, after the planet comes to the Hive Fleet's notice, the destiny of the cult is sealed, because all surviving members are absorbed like the rest of the planet".
Caederes wrote: Cheers for all your answers Tyranid607, the codex leak confirms everything you've said so far. We really appreciate it!
There's still a few things I think we're all eager to find out though;
What are the Broodmind powers?
What are the Warlord Traits?
What are the Relics and what do they do?
Lastly, what are the points costs like on the units? Thanks again!
broodmind
primars power warp charge 1/ malediction single unit within 24" reduce WS/BS/I/A by 1 to a min of 1
psychic stimulus warp charge 1/ blessing frdly unit not in combat gain relentless and fleet, can charge even ran in shooting phase
psionic blast 1/ witchfire 24" S5 Ap3 Assult 1 Blast
Might from beyond 1/ blessing a frdly unit 24" +1S and gain rage
mental onslaught 2/ focussed witchfire 24" both Psyker and target model roll a dice + LDS, if drawn target model -3I until next turn. if Psyker is higher, target suffer wound equal to the difference and no armor and cover saves are allowed
mind control 2/ focussed witchfire targets a single non-vehicle unit not lock in combat and makes shooting attack exactly as if it were one of your model
telepathic summons 2 or 3/ choose 2 or 3, conjuration create a single unit , 2 = 5 Acolyte or 5 Metamorphs or 10 Neophyte, 3 = 10 Acolyte or 10 Metamorphs or 20 Neophyte or 4 aberants or 8 genestealer, these model can be equipped with ANY UPGRADES list on their data sheet
Warlord trait
1. Steath
2. frdly unit of GSC have counter-attack with 12" of warlord
3. Move through cover, warlord and his unit never suffer penalty to I for charging through difficult terrain
4.It will not die
5. all model in your warlords detachment can use his LD 6.When using vult ambush with any unit he joined, do not roll on the ambush table, you can choose a result
relics
1.icon of the cult/ frdly unit within 12" of bearer have furious charge and can reroll failed Morale/pinning/feat test, model in same unit of bearer +1 A
2. dagger of swift sacrifice/ can instead make a single atk rolling to hit as normal S user Instant Death/Poisoned(2+)
3. Scourge of distat stars/ bearer involved in a challenge, their opponent must pas a T test before any attack are made, if fail that model suffer a wound with no save of any kind allowd and -1 I + Auntil the end of phase
4 staff of the subterran master / shooting attack 18" S2 AP- Assauly 10/Ignore cover/Rending
5 Sword of the void's eye/ +1S AP3, reroll to hit and to wound of 1 and to wound of 6 has the instant death rule
6. the crouchling in CCB make additional 2 S4 AP- Rending attack, bearer can generate one additional psychic power at the start of game
Holy...Umm. Broodmind powers are insane. WC1 S5 AP3 blasts? Mass buffs including running and charging or +1 Strength and Rage, or mass debuffs and character assassination spells? A power that lets you shoot an enemy unit that's not in close combat at WC2 (WHAT, Chaos gets that power in a formation only and for WC3! WHAT), and a power that SUMMONS MORE CULTISTS????????????
Warlord Traits are decent, but that number 6....hilarious. If you get that trait (use the re-roll!) you can guarantee a Patriarch (for example) and a big unit of Purestrains can pop up right next to an enemy unit and charge them when they arrive. WOAH!
Relics seem pretty good but obviously we need to see the points to make good judgements. The Icon sounds like fun but other than the +1 attack and Furious Charge could well be superfluous if you have him near a Patriarch for the Fearless aura. The Dagger seems...eh. Provided the Primus' kept Rending as a special rule, it has potential, but at that point you'd just rather the Bonesword I think. Still, not bad. The Scourge would stack really well with Enfeeble from Biomancy. The Staff is funny as it's essentially guaranteed at least one Rend on a BS4 model. The Sword of the Void's Eye sounds tailor made for the Patriarch or the Primus, S7 AP3, re-rolling 1s to hit and wound with 6s being Instant Death, or the Primus who adds Rending to it (again, if he kept that as a special rule). And a familiar that gives an extra power to the Cults' cheap psykers? Also nice.
I'm liking the sound of all this, especially the Broodmind powers. That discipline makes me shudder.
EDIT: No Hit and Run in the codex, that sucks. The Patriarch profile does kinda confirm this. Oh well. Still, Purestrains sound like a really fun unit.
Also, can I just get another holla for Broodmind? The Primaris is one of the better Maledictions I've seen considering the Cult wants to be in combat. The power that lets them shoot with an enemy unit is absolutely bananas, as is the summoning spell. Genestealer Cult units might be cheap, but they are deceptively dangerous - especially the Acolytes and now the Metamorphs. Getting them for free without the massive risks that Malefic Daemonology imposes to non-Chaos psykers is simply incredible. Those two powers...game-changers, that's for damn sure. It helps that Genestealer Cult psykers are incredibly cheap! The rest of the powers in the discipline are pretty good too. The character assassination spell is a classic counter to monstrous creatures, Strength 5 AP3 small blasts at WC1 will ravage Marines and lighter infantry, giving Relentless + Fleet + Run and Charge for WC1 to things like Purestrains and Aberrants is bonkers, and +1 Strength and Rage for a whole unit? Yeah, umm...take a big unit of Acolytes. Stack +1 Strength, Rage, Fleet, Run and Charge on them. Get the Inconward for Furious Charge. Get the Primus for (hopefully he kept this) Zealot. Unleash the beast. Suddenly all those WS4 I4 Rending attacks with assault grenades handy will tear apart anything in the game, and they can potentially auto-charge on turn two without being shot at once And if you don't get those powers, you get the nasty witchfires or the ridiculous last two spells. Win-win. Is Broodmind one of the strongest disciplines in the game now?
CaptainSomas wrote: Those broodmind powers look bonkers. Especially the summoning one..yikes.
And MIND CONTROL is back!
Hey...Wraith Knight....how about shoot your D's nutz at your buddy over there.
or
Hey Broadside....all of those ignores cover misses look kind of heavy in that pod....why don't you let me aim them for you!
More like this....hi Stormsurge. What's that? You have one-use-only missiles that rip apart Broadsides and Riptides? What about those secondary weapons that scythe through Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors/Kroot? Or how about your main gun that destroys pretty much any non-monstrous unit that Tau have?
This discipline scares the bajeezus out of me as someone who isn't a Cult player.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That's a good point actually, @Tyranid607 how much do individual Neophytes, Acolytes and Metamorphs cost? Are they similar to those in Deathwatch: Overkill? Are Acolytes still Fearless?
conker249 wrote: It would be cool if the Genestealer claws shown in the transport(not the dozer bladed one) was an option to add a single purestrain one to buff the squad. Kinda like a "RELEASE THE KRAKEN!"
The text of the conversion article says they used a Familiar. That's what's poking out of the luggage compartment.
Mr Morden wrote:Well next thing is to ask the FAQ boys to update the Tyranid ones in the same way as they updated Marine Dreadnought attacks
BloodGrin wrote:
CaptainSomas wrote: Those broodmind powers look bonkers. Especially the summoning one..yikes.
And MIND CONTROL is back!
Hey...Wraith Knight....how about shoot your D's nutz at your buddy over there.
or
Hey Broadside....all of those ignores cover misses look kind of heavy in that pod....why don't you let me aim them for you!
Caederes wrote:More like this....hi Stormsurge. What's that? You have one-use-only missiles that rip apart Broadsides and Riptides? What about those secondary weapons that scythe through Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors/Kroot? Or how about your main gun that destroys pretty much any non-monstrous unit that Tau have?
Or how about hi Imperial Knight Crusader, I notice that your allied to a Space Marine army that really doesn't want 12 AP3 Rending shots and 2 AP3 Large Blasts coming their way...oops.
This discipline scares the bajeezus out of me as someone who isn't a Cult player.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That's a good point actually, @Tyranid607 how much do individual Neophytes, Acolytes and Metamorphs cost? Are they similar to those in Deathwatch: Overkill? Are Acolytes still Fearless?
Thanks again, you're doing an awesome job!
Are those vehicles? Maybe now it's time to stop crying that they should be vehicles and not Monstrous Creatures.
Really liking this release so far, and I can't wait for payday. However, couple of weird omissions in the release like an Abberant kit (or even the Abberants from the boxed game released separately) and a separate upgrade sprue - there goes my idea of using the Cadian and Catachan command squads to avoid using the rubbish guardsman models!
Are those vehicles? Maybe now it's time to stop crying that they should be vehicles and not Monstrous Creatures.
That's my bad lol, I didn't read the "non-vehicle" part. The Stormsurge is a Gargantuan Creature but the Imperial Knight is a vehicle. Still, the power is great, even for simple things like shooting a heavy weapon team into the rear armor of a nearby Leman Russ or something along those lines.
Caederes wrote: More like this....hi Stormsurge. What's that? You have one-use-only missiles that rip apart Broadsides and Riptides? What about those secondary weapons that scythe through Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors/Kroot? Or how about your main gun that destroys pretty much any non-monstrous unit that Tau have?
Or how about hi Imperial Knight Crusader, I notice that your allied to a Space Marine army that really doesn't want 12 AP3 Rending shots and 2 AP3 Large Blasts coming their way...oops.
This discipline scares the bajeezus out of me as someone who isn't a Cult player.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That's a good point actually, @Tyranid607 how much do individual Neophytes, Acolytes and Metamorphs cost? Are they similar to those in Deathwatch: Overkill? Are Acolytes still Fearless?
Thanks again, you're doing an awesome job!
Neophytes 5pts min size of 10, max 20
Acolytes 8pts min of 5 max 20
matamorphs 9pts min of 5 max 10 (this unit is insane for its ability and pts)
All of them model does have rending claws excluding neophyte
and Aberrants 30pts min of 4 max 8
Neophytes 5pts min size of 10, max 20
Acolytes 8pts min of 5 max 20
matamorphs 9pts min of 5 max 10 (this unit is insane for its ability and pts)
All of them model does have rending claws excluding neophyte
and Aberrants 30pts min of 4 max 8
oldzoggy wrote: When he posts something new and true, Then I am going to post an excuse to the user with 30 post, that until now only has posted rumors that are quite safe and removed all falls hoods by edits.
I just say don't get your hopes up, only based on Tyranid607's posts
Just look at the time...
The reason i removed all post is because gw post a video that is very similar to what i know
and people just think i am trolling around
Neophytes 5pts min size of 10, max 20
Acolytes 8pts min of 5 max 20
matamorphs 9pts min of 5 max 10 (this unit is insane for its ability and pts)
All of them model does have rending claws excluding neophyte
and Aberrants 30pts min of 4 max 8
So Neophytes and Acolytes both work out to be about a point more expensive than their Overkill versions, but given the army special rules, new weapons, sergeants, etc that only makes sense. They're still great, Neophytes are just superior Guardsmen and Acolytes might be the best melee horde unit in the game right now.
What are the details on the Metamorphs? 9 points each sounds really cheap given what I saw of their weapons, I couldn't make them out very clearly but one of them looked to be AP3? That they get +2 Strength or +3 Initiative or +2 Weapon Skill and otherwise seem like generic Acolytes sounds crazy for only 1 point extra per model. What are the AP values of their weapons and which ones get which stat boosts? Is it free to pick those three weapons or do they start with one and have to pay for the different stat-boosting weapons?
Also, are Acolytes and Metamorphs Fearless?
What does the Primus do now that we've seen the Patriarch, Magus and Iconward?
ImAGeek wrote: Really liking this release so far, and I can't wait for payday. However, couple of weird omissions in the release like an Abberant kit (or even the Abberants from the boxed game released separately) and a separate upgrade sprue - there goes my idea of using the Cadian and Catachan command squads to avoid using the rubbish guardsman models!
This is just the first wave of releases. The trucks haven't even gotten released yet. I'm sure we'll see some more stand-alone kits.
Right now you can't get the Primus or Magus individually yet either. The upgrade kit has been confirmed. It just hasn't gotten released yet. GW likes to release things in smaller waves. I'm sure the strategy being that if they space them out to match up with payday, you'll be more likely to buy because you're flush with cash and the total expenditure is lower, rather than trying to get you to drop $200 or more at once on every model in the range.
oldzoggy wrote: When he posts something new and true, Then I am going to post an excuse to the user with 30 post, that until now only has posted rumors that are quite safe and removed all falls hoods by edits.
I just say don't get your hopes up, only based on Tyranid607's posts
Just look at the time...
The reason i removed all post is because gw post a video that is very similar to what i know
and people just think i am trolling around
I don't think you are trolling. I appreciate everything you are doing.
ImAGeek wrote: Really liking this release so far, and I can't wait for payday. However, couple of weird omissions in the release like an Abberant kit (or even the Abberants from the boxed game released separately) and a separate upgrade sprue - there goes my idea of using the Cadian and Catachan command squads to avoid using the rubbish guardsman models!
This is just the first wave of releases. The trucks haven't even gotten released yet. I'm sure we'll see some more stand-alone kits.
Right now you can't get the Primus or Magus individually yet either. The upgrade kit has been confirmed. It just hasn't gotten released yet. GW likes to release things in smaller waves. I'm sure the strategy being that if they space them out to match up with payday, you'll be more likely to buy because you're flush with cash and the total expenditure is lower, rather than trying to get you to drop $200 or more at once on every model in the range.
I've got the White Dwarf with all the releases in it. No Aberrants, and no upgrade sprue separate from the sets its in. The Primus, Magus and Patriarch are in a set together.
Neophytes 5pts min size of 10, max 20
Acolytes 8pts min of 5 max 20
matamorphs 9pts min of 5 max 10 (this unit is insane for its ability and pts)
All of them model does have rending claws excluding neophyte
and Aberrants 30pts min of 4 max 8
What can metamorphs do?
What upgrades / options can purestrains take?
metamorphs default come with rending claws and metamorph talon which bascially +1WS
and can replace rending claws and metamorph talon with 2 metamorph talons = +2WS for free
or replace metamorph talon to replace metamorph claws = +2S for 2pts
or replace metamorph talon to replace metamorph whip = +3I for 2pts
leader can take bonesword for 20pts
Oh, the Cult Ambush rule is even better than I thought. The #5 result lets you shoot twice! Really darned good with Neophytes, then you cast Relentless on them in the Psychic phase so that their second shooting attack lets them use their Heavy weapons to full effect.
Neophytes 5pts min size of 10, max 20
Acolytes 8pts min of 5 max 20
matamorphs 9pts min of 5 max 10 (this unit is insane for its ability and pts)
All of them model does have rending claws excluding neophyte
and Aberrants 30pts min of 4 max 8
What can metamorphs do?
What upgrades / options can purestrains take?
metamorphs default come with rending claws and metamorph talon which bascially +1WS
and can replace rending claws and metamorph talon with 2 metamorph talons = +2WS for free
or replace metamorph talon to replace metamorph claws = +2S for 2pts
or replace metamorph talon to replace metamorph whip = +3I for 2pts
leader can take bonesword for 20pts
Here's the real kicker, do the stat boosts work even if you use the Rending Claws? I.e. do the rules for the Metamorph weapons state "a model equipped with this weapon gets +2 Strength" and so on? Double yikes if that's how it works.
Caederes wrote: As for the Cults alliance with other armies, Tyranid607 confirmed they are Allies of Convenience with Astra Militarum and Tyranids, but are Come the Apocalypse with everyone else.
I would have expected them to be Come the Apocalypse with everything - I guess their reasoning for Tyranids is some kind of control over the invasion force to leave the Genestealer Cult as their last meal, but I always thought they would have been indiscriminately devoured upon sight by any Tyranid outside of the Cult..
From a post back during the FAQ that changed the Genestealer Cult to AoC:
The Warzone Valdore book has a section in the back of the book detailing the phases of Tyranid invasion and includes the role of the Hybrid forces.
Excerpts from the relevant sections.
Discovery: As the infiltrator beasts prosper upon the target world, so their numbers multiply. Genestealers impregnate their prey-creatures with alien taint on a genetic level, forcing their victims to spawn horrific offspring that are nonetheless nurtured as beloved children away from the sight of mortal authorities. As such hidden communities flourish, so does their collective psychic spoor grow stronger, presumably attracting the notice of the ever-hungry Hive Mind as it draws close. A flourishing hybrid community of this kind is a sure indication of rich feeding grounds. In some cases, those in the thrall of the Genestealers may seek to infiltrate the world's ruling classes, aiming to prepare it for the hive fleet's arrival by weakening defenses or moral resolve.
Attack: [...] It is during these primary invasions that any infested local communities make their move, acting entirely under the control of the Hive Mind and seeking to disrupt what little resistance the defenders are able to mount from within.
Consumption: As the Tyranid digestion pools swell, the hive ships cluster closer and closer to the planet's surface.[...] At this point, any infested natives the vanguard organisms have cultivated upon the world add their biomass to the harvest. The minds of these creatures are, by this point, entirely subsumed to the Hive Mind's gestalt will, and they march blank-faced into the depths of the digestion pools, along with all the other Tyranids to be rendered down into nutrients.
Basically they are treated as any other combat organism by the Tyranids.
Based on the (highly exciting) leaks so far, I suspect allies of convenience is to represent certain incompatibilies between the two, such as use of technology or the zealous leadership employed by the cult leaders. In addition, there are a few odd rules interactions that could cause trouble with battle brothers (Fearless conferred by a non-synaptic character to IB: Lurk creatures for instance - they are required to fall back but can't because of Fearless and have no clause to upgrade to the next result like IB: Hunt does).
Flying Hive Tyrants. You can get a single one in an allied detachment for the low cost of a single Mucolid or up to three in a Leviathan detachment for three Mucolids. Adds extra warp charges and some anti-heavy tank too if you splurge for Electroshock Grubs.
ImAGeek wrote: Really liking this release so far, and I can't wait for payday. However, couple of weird omissions in the release like an Abberant kit (or even the Abberants from the boxed game released separately) and a separate upgrade sprue - there goes my idea of using the Cadian and Catachan command squads to avoid using the rubbish guardsman models!
This is just the first wave of releases. The trucks haven't even gotten released yet. I'm sure we'll see some more stand-alone kits.
Right now you can't get the Primus or Magus individually yet either. The upgrade kit has been confirmed. It just hasn't gotten released yet. GW likes to release things in smaller waves. I'm sure the strategy being that if they space them out to match up with payday, you'll be more likely to buy because you're flush with cash and the total expenditure is lower, rather than trying to get you to drop $200 or more at once on every model in the range.
The truck / HQ and Cadian like Heavy Weapon Squad is in stock already
but no news for aberrants
and i dont heard of any start collecting kit for GSC so the cheapest way to get it is by deathwatch overkill, and grab a box Acolyte which the drill upgrade go for overkill Acolyte, and you cab build 5 metamorphs out of this
The Warzone Valdore book has a section in the back of the book detailing the phases of Tyranid invasion and includes the role of the Hybrid forces.
Excerpts from the relevant sections.
Discovery: As the infiltrator beasts prosper upon the target world, so their numbers multiply. Genestealers impregnate their prey-creatures with alien taint on a genetic level, forcing their victims to spawn horrific offspring that are nonetheless nurtured as beloved children away from the sight of mortal authorities. As such hidden communities flourish, so does their collective psychic spoor grow stronger, presumably attracting the notice of the ever-hungry Hive Mind as it draws close. A flourishing hybrid community of this kind is a sure indication of rich feeding grounds. In some cases, those in the thrall of the Genestealers may seek to infiltrate the world's ruling classes, aiming to prepare it for the hive fleet's arrival by weakening defenses or moral resolve.
Attack: [...] It is during these primary invasions that any infested local communities make their move, acting entirely under the control of the Hive Mind and seeking to disrupt what little resistance the defenders are able to mount from within.
Consumption: As the Tyranid digestion pools swell, the hive ships cluster closer and closer to the planet's surface.[...] At this point, any infested natives the vanguard organisms have cultivated upon the world add their biomass to the harvest. The minds of these creatures are, by this point, entirely subsumed to the Hive Mind's gestalt will, and they march blank-faced into the depths of the digestion pools, along with all the other Tyranids to be rendered down into nutrients.
Basically they are treated as any other combat organism by the Tyranids.
Based on the (highly exciting) leaks so far, I suspect allies of convenience is to represent certain incompatibilies between the two, such as use of technology or the zealous leadership employed by the cult leaders. In addition, there are a few odd rules interactions that could cause trouble with battle brothers (Fearless conferred by a non-synaptic character to IB: Lurk creatures for instance - they are required to fall back but can't because of Fearless and have no clause to upgrade to the next result like IB: Hunt does).
Thanks for that Strat, that fills the gaps in my knowledge nicely However I would say that whichever group of soldiers they bring under their wing, be they PDF or AM, would probably function in the same way as the rest of the Hybrids, which still confuses me on how they are not Battle Brothers - the Cults aren't using the equipment or tactics anyway, they will still function as PDF/AM. Rules wise it makes sense though, I guess.
His Master's Voice wrote: AM makes perfect sense as allies for the Cult, as every single human model in an army with Cult units in it can be considered a Brood Brother (or whatever they're called right now).
Hell, it makes more sense for the Cult to ally with AM than it does for them to get along with Nids. Nids should have no allies whatsoever.
I was glad to see they downgraded Battle Brothers to AoC, but I agree, Tyranids have no friends, nor should they. Even the Genestealer Cult is a tool, not an ally. A beacon to locate populous planets for consumption. They hinted at this in the video Warhammer TV released, but went soft on it in the rules allowing them to ally. The idea of the Cult fighting alongside Tyranid creatures is silly. The Hivemind exists only to devour biomass. The manipulation of the Cult, the Ascendency, etc, that's all a fabrication of the Magus/Patriarch to lure in unwitting new followers, while disguising the true nature of the Cult (an eventual beacon for the Hivemind). Nobody actually ascends anywhere except up a Tyranid feeding tube, lol.
Even if the stat boosts don't combine with the Rending Claws on Metamorphs (Tyranid607, can you confirm please?), there's still a lot to like there. The +3 Initiative weapon means you strike before things like Harlequins, denying their main advantage; you go first with a plethora of attacks, hitting on 4s and wounding on 3s and they only get their 5+ invulnerable save. Bye-bye Harlequins. Also generally works against Eldar in general of course.
Caederes wrote: Oh, the Cult Ambush rule is even better than I thought. The #5 result lets you shoot twice! Really darned good with Neophytes, then you cast Relentless on them in the Psychic phase so that their second shooting attack lets them use their Heavy weapons to full effect.
Neophytes 5pts min size of 10, max 20
Acolytes 8pts min of 5 max 20
matamorphs 9pts min of 5 max 10 (this unit is insane for its ability and pts)
All of them model does have rending claws excluding neophyte
and Aberrants 30pts min of 4 max 8
What can metamorphs do?
What upgrades / options can purestrains take?
metamorphs default come with rending claws and metamorph talon which bascially +1WS
and can replace rending claws and metamorph talon with 2 metamorph talons = +2WS for free
or replace metamorph talon to replace metamorph claws = +2S for 2pts
or replace metamorph talon to replace metamorph whip = +3I for 2pts
leader can take bonesword for 20pts
Here's the real kicker, do the stat boosts work even if you use the Rending Claws? I.e. do the rules for the Metamorph weapons state "a model equipped with this weapon gets +2 Strength" and so on? Double yikes if that's how it works.
I believe yes for the rending claws, as the only option to give up the rending claws is replaced with 2 metamorph talons
so the other options you still have the rending claws
Really the kicker is will they release the acolytes from overkill as stand alone. $40 for 5 dudes is tough to handle for 8 point guys. Other than that this seems like a really interesting army to play.
His Master's Voice wrote: AM makes perfect sense as allies for the Cult, as every single human model in an army with Cult units in it can be considered a Brood Brother (or whatever they're called right now).
Hell, it makes more sense for the Cult to ally with AM than it does for them to get along with Nids. Nids should have no allies whatsoever.
I was glad to see they downgraded Battle Brothers to AoC, but I agree, Tyranids have no friends, nor should they. Even the Genestealer Cult is a tool, not an ally. A beacon to locate populous planets for consumption. They hinted at this in the video Warhammer TV released, but went soft on it in the rules allowing them to ally. The idea of the Cult fighting alongside Tyranid creatures is silly. The Hivemind exists only to devour biomass. The manipulation of the Cult, the Ascendency, etc, that's all a fabrication of the Magus/Patriarch to lure in unwitting new followers, while disguising the true nature of the Cult (an eventual beacon for the Hivemind). Nobody actually ascends anywhere except up a Tyranid feeding tube, lol.
At least according to the Novel released last Saturday by the author who also did "Fire Caste" not even the cult leaders and Patriarch are fully aware of the coming of the Tyranids. The Patriarch gains gradual sentience and awareness as it grows but it seems to be unaware of what-is-coming only a "Bloodline" or "Genetic" Imperative that drives it. In the novel a Patriarch that was gaining awareness took the symbolism and they concepts of the Sororitas and applied them to itself and brood. So they are all true believers. They just don't know what.
I believe yes for the rending claws, as the only option to give up the rending claws is replaced with 2 metamorph talons
so the other options you still have the rending claws
So that means the weapons say "a model equipped with this weapon xxxx" rather than "a model that uses this weapon" or something to that effect? If they work at the same time as the Rending Claws, meaning you can have +2 Strength or +3 Initiative and Rending simultaneously on the Metamorphs, that's ridiculous!
Thanks for that Strat, that fills the gaps in my knowledge nicely However I would say that whichever group of soldiers they bring under their wing, be they PDF or AM, would probably function in the same way as the rest of the Hybrids, which still confuses me on how they are not Battle Brothers - the Cults aren't using the equipment or tactics anyway, they will still function as PDF/AM. Rules wise it makes sense though, I guess.
Think of it this way: The GSC "IG" units are the ones comprised entirely of Cult members. Due to their need to maintains secrecy, they can't necessarily get access to some of the more limited equipment and wargear (such as Manticores and rare Leman Russ variants) where the necessary clearence could carry too much of a risk of exposure.
IG units that are allied to a GSC force are the ones that have been compromised but not totally taken over (e.g. the commander of the unit might be a cultist while the troops are loyal but opperating under bad faith orders), or had to stay secret enough they can't act in coordinated concert with the main GSC force once things break out.
Aegis Defense line.
Works great with their stealth and whatnot
I mean, it doesn't really fit with anyone's army, lol. Where do the Space Marines get them from? They're supposed to be a rapid strike force. Are they carrying them down on their backs and assembling them on the fly wherever they go? Are they just randomly placed on Imperial words in strategically advantageous locations? Why are they always around when the White Scars or Raven Guard show up?
Purchaseable fortifications were a great idea for narrative play. In casual or tournament play, you start to wonder why every battle takes place around these randomly located defensive positions, oddly blocked by hills or forests. It's like competitive X-Wing. How many asteroids are there in the Star Wars universe?
75$ for the characters. Lol. Almost half the price of a overkill box. Oh GW, you will never cease to amuse me. Gotta say that the GOliath is a lot more affordable than I would have tought.
KiloFiX wrote: Anyone know what the Cavalcade Formation gives?
Vehicles ignore shaken/stunned on a 4+, vehicles gain outflank, and sentinels instead gain Cult Ambush. Also, Chimera are mandatory for the two squads.
Coolest part is that means your Sentinel Squads bring back D6 destroyed members of the squad each time they enter cult ambush, so if they don't all get wiped out, there's a good chance the whole squad will come back.
With a bit of luck, there's some crazy stuff you can do with this army.
Take a 160 point unit of 20 Acolytes without upgrades, use Cult Ambush. Get lucky by rolling a 6, charge on the turn they arrive from ongoing reserves. Get into combat with something scary like a Dreadknight. After Overwatch with a Heavy Incinerator and Heavy Psycannon, you're looking at 17 Acolytes attacking and they have assault grenades so you're not worried about cover. Those 17 dudes output 68 attacks on the charge at WS4 I4 with Rending, meaning they should average something like 5-6 Rends and kill the Dreadknight in one go....for a lower points cost, and unlike other melee units like Daemonettes, they can do it without ever being shot if you have a bit of luck.
Alternatively, take a twenty-man unit of Neophyte Hybrids; for 100 points before upgrades, if you roll up the 5 result on the Cult Ambush rule with them, you get 40 BS3 S3 AP- shots in guaranteed rapid fire range....then in the shooting phase, you get another 40 BS3 S3 AP- shots (if you're still in rapid fire range) and potentially at a different unit! Add in Flamers/Grenade Launchers/Mining Lasers and a Magus with (hopefully) the Relentless power so that they can fire potential Mining Lasers at full Ballistic Skill in the second round of shooting. Profit!
Random, of course. But fun and if you get it off, absolutely brutal.
RedFox wrote: So the turned imperial guards are the same unit than the neophyte hybrids? just a cosmetic change
That's all they really ever were. What are now called "Neophyte Hybrids" used to just be called "Brood Brothers" and were representative of anything from mind-controlled/infected cultists, to subverted members of the Planetary Defense Forces. Their equipment was variable to reflect that. Genestealer Cult was one of those armies that were expected to be conversion-heavy back in the old days when White Dwarf battle reports still used scratch-built terrain, lol.
So, is it safe to say there will be a "start collecting" bundle before xmas? I'm fine with getting just the codex for now and waiting for a bundle as long as it's not a long wait
KiloFiX wrote: Anyone know what the Cavalcade Formation gives?
2 units of neophyte
1 leman russ squadron
1-2 of the following units, in any combination:Scout sentinels/Armoured sentinels
restrictions/ each neophyte must take a chimera as a dedicated transport
Mechanised ambush: this formation's units of neophyte hyrids must start the game embarked within their transports. vehicle unit in this formation have the outflank rule. Scout Sentinels from this formation instead gain the cult ambush rule
devoted crew: roll a dice each time a vehicle from this formation suffers a crew stunned or crew shaken resuly. on 4 or more that result is ignored(still loss HP)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necros wrote: So, is it safe to say there will be a "start collecting" bundle before xmas? I'm fine with getting just the codex for now and waiting for a bundle as long as it's not a long wait
i dont think so, your start collecting bundle is deathwatch
KiloFiX wrote: Anyone know what the Cavalcade Formation gives?
2 units of neophyte
1 leman russ squadron
1-2 of the following units, in any combination:Scout sentinels/Armoured sentinels
restrictions/ each neophyte must take a chimera as a dedicated transport
Mechanised ambush: this formation's units of neophyte hyrids must start the game embarked within their transports. vehicle unit in this formation have the outflank rule. Scout Sentinels from this formation instead gain the cult ambush rule
devoted crew: roll a dice each time a vehicle from this formation suffers a crew stunned or crew shaken resuly. on 4 or more that result is ignored(still loss HP)
Man, suddenly all those IG/AM units I bought when Apocalypse came out to make my counts-as GSC are going to see play! Go go 9 sentinels!
@Tyranid607, just reposting this for the new page, with regards to the Metamorph weapons, what's the wording of how they get the stat boosts? Is it clear that they have to actually use those weapons to get the stat boosts, meaning they get them even if they attack with the Rending Claws, or do they merely have to be equipped with the Metamorph weapons to get the stat boosts?
Last question for you, what does the Primus do now? Does he still have Zealot? Does he have a 12" rule bubble? Does he still have Rending as a special rule rather than a weapon?
Caederes wrote: With a bit of luck, there's some crazy stuff you can do with this army.
Take a 160 point unit of 20 Acolytes without upgrades, use Cult Ambush. Get lucky by rolling a 6, charge on the turn they arrive from ongoing reserves. Get into combat with something scary like a Dreadknight. After Overwatch with a Heavy Incinerator and Heavy Psycannon, you're looking at 17 Acolytes attacking and they have assault grenades so you're not worried about cover. Those 17 dudes output 68 attacks on the charge at WS4 I4 with Rending, meaning they should average something like 5-6 Rends and kill the Dreadknight in one go....for a lower points cost, and unlike other melee units like Daemonettes, they can do it without ever being shot if you have a bit of luck.
Alternatively, take a twenty-man unit of Neophyte Hybrids; for 100 points before upgrades, if you roll up the 5 result on the Cult Ambush rule with them, you get 40 BS3 S3 AP- shots in guaranteed rapid fire range....then in the shooting phase, you get another 40 BS3 S3 AP- shots (if you're still in rapid fire range) and potentially at a different unit! Add in Flamers/Grenade Launchers/Mining Lasers and a Magus with (hopefully) the Relentless power so that they can fire potential Mining Lasers at full Ballistic Skill in the second round of shooting. Profit!
Random, of course. But fun and if you get it off, absolutely brutal.
ImAGeek wrote: Really liking this release so far, and I can't wait for payday. However, couple of weird omissions in the release like an Abberant kit (or even the Abberants from the boxed game released separately) and a separate upgrade sprue - there goes my idea of using the Cadian and Catachan command squads to avoid using the rubbish guardsman models!
Apologies, as I'm sure it's buried here somewhere, but can someone please link me to the post describing the Neophyte squad and what upgrades/weapons/etc they can take?
Aegis Defense line.
Works great with their stealth and whatnot
I mean, it doesn't really fit with anyone's army, lol. Where do the Space Marines get them from? They're supposed to be a rapid strike force. Are they carrying them down on their backs and assembling them on the fly wherever they go? Are they just randomly placed on Imperial words in strategically advantageous locations? Why are they always around when the White Scars or Raven Guard show up?
Purchaseable fortifications were a great idea for narrative play. In casual or tournament play, you start to wonder why every battle takes place around these randomly located defensive positions, oddly blocked by hills or forests. It's like competitive X-Wing. How many asteroids are there in the Star Wars universe?
For my GCult, I used the Secret Weapon Miniatures jersey barriers to represent an improvised defense line.
Aegis Defense line.
Works great with their stealth and whatnot
I mean, it doesn't really fit with anyone's army, lol. Where do the Space Marines get them from? They're supposed to be a rapid strike force. Are they carrying them down on their backs and assembling them on the fly wherever they go? Are they just randomly placed on Imperial words in strategically advantageous locations? Why are they always around when the White Scars or Raven Guard show up?
Purchaseable fortifications were a great idea for narrative play. In casual or tournament play, you start to wonder why every battle takes place around these randomly located defensive positions, oddly blocked by hills or forests. It's like competitive X-Wing. How many asteroids are there in t
the Star Wars universe?
Not sure where you get the impression that Space Marines are a rapid strike force. Perhaps certain units, but more than that they are a military.
You find your defensive position and then you fortify it. Yes they would carry the parts it is a deployable wall.
Do you think tank traps just appear? Space Marines are more the Army than Seal Team 6.
I will gladly take my deployable 4+ base cover and quad gun over many vehicles which will get popped first turn.
3 up, 2 up with shrouded first turn.
Caederes wrote: @Tyranid607, just reposting this for the new page, with regards to the Metamorph weapons, what's the wording of how they get the stat boosts? Is it clear that they have to actually use those weapons to get the stat boosts, meaning they get them even if they attack with the Rending Claws, or do they merely have to be equipped with the Metamorph weapons to get the stat boosts?
Last question for you, what does the Primus do now? Does he still have Zealot? Does he have a 12" rule bubble? Does he still have Rending as a special rule rather than a weapon?
Thank you so much for your patience
Metamorph weapons boost with rending claws, i think yes.
if not whats the point of having rending claws by default
or you have to choose what weapon to attack? i am not sure about that
Skullhammer wrote: A couple of questions
are stealers a troop choice (on phone and stats are to blurred) and is the patriarch an hq.
Hoping for a pure stealer list.
Patriarch is HQ but 'stealers are Elites. That said, you could do a purely Purestrain list by spamming the First Curse formation (though it wouldn't get the overall detachment bonus).
And the HQ of GSC will be very hard to kill
as they got "unquestioning loyality", which auto pass look out sir attemps and can even make look out sir attempts when fighting in a challenge
minionboy wrote: Coolest part is that means your Sentinel Squads bring back D6 destroyed members of the squad each time they enter cult ambush, so if they don't all get wiped out, there's a good chance the whole squad will come back.
I don't think this works. The Cult Ambush rule only lets you roll on the table when you come on from Reserves. It is the Return to the Shadows rule which lets you remove them from the table and enter Ongoing Reserves. The Sentinels don't have any way (that I have seen) to get the Return to the Shadows rule - hence no way to enter Ongoing Reserves and thus get the D6 models back when they use Cult Ambush.
streetsamurai wrote:75$ for the characters. Lol. Almost half the price of a overkill box. Oh GW, you will never cease to amuse me. Gotta say that the GOliath is a lot more affordable than I would have tought.
What character is that you are talking about that is $75?
Necros wrote:So, is it safe to say there will be a "start collecting" bundle before xmas? I'm fine with getting just the codex for now and waiting for a bundle as long as it's not a long wait
A lot longer than that I think. Deathwatch doesn't have theirs yet unless they are going to release them both side by side. I am guess December or around Christmas times. Since GW seems to be changing they might be thinking these would be great Christmas gifts and waiting to boost up December sales.
Question is, how many of these "Christmas gifts" will be for other people and not themselves? If true that is. I am not saying this is a rumour.
minionboy wrote: Coolest part is that means your Sentinel Squads bring back D6 destroyed members of the squad each time they enter cult ambush, so if they don't all get wiped out, there's a good chance the whole squad will come back.
I don't think this works. The Cult Ambush rule only lets you roll on the table when you come on from Reserves. It is the Return to the Shadows rule which lets you remove them from the table and enter Ongoing Reserves. The Sentinels don't have any way (that I have seen) to get the Return to the Shadows rule - hence no way to enter Ongoing Reserves and thus get the D6 models back when they use Cult Ambush.
According to the screencap on the previous page, you can also DEPLOY using cult ambush.
So glad I've got my hands on DW:OK and the Space Hulk Stealers, I'mma use the First Curse formation and have like a 15 Stealer unit wth a 1/3 chance to be able to choose to charge every time they return from the shadows.
Really great release rules wise, i love how they nailed that the GSC *already* has you surrounded. Every game will feel like a scenario where you can't leave units alone lest hybrids come crawling from the sewers to get you.
Finally a reason to run my Genestealers! I've been painting up an extra Broodlord and like 24 stealers to go with my GSC when they dropped - and now they will definitely be put to good use!
Caederes wrote: @Tyranid607, just reposting this for the new page, with regards to the Metamorph weapons, what's the wording of how they get the stat boosts? Is it clear that they have to actually use those weapons to get the stat boosts, meaning they get them even if they attack with the Rending Claws, or do they merely have to be equipped with the Metamorph weapons to get the stat boosts?
Last question for you, what does the Primus do now? Does he still have Zealot? Does he have a 12" rule bubble? Does he still have Rending as a special rule rather than a weapon?
Thank you so much for your patience
Metamorph weapons boost with rending claws, i think yes.
if not whats the point of having rending claws by default
or you have to choose what weapon to attack? i am not sure about that
and Primus do 12" Hatred, no zealot,
What is the bonus for the other Core formation the Brood cycle?
Also the subterranean assault formation what doe it do ??
)
Oh my just because he says "online" doesn't mean he can really type. You know how hard it is to type out on a cell phone? Easier to read than to reply to so many question.
