Arch-Fiend wrote: Good, now the background is at least clear. Is that a helmet he's wearing? I do not recognize it. But I'm seeing more than two arms and a mining harness like from Overkill.
Arch-Fiend wrote: Good, now the background is at least clear. Is that a helmet he's wearing? I do not recognize it. But I'm seeing more than two arms and a mining harness like from Overkill.
It looks like the visor goggles from the mining laser hybrids (presumably something akin to a welding mask to protect the eyes).
The industrial saw looks promising. If it ends up a special weapon option for Acolytes and the codex includes a multiple ways to get the Brood-kin bonuses I could see them being a successful Ork boy equivalent.
Arch-Fiend wrote: Good, now the background is at least clear. Is that a helmet he's wearing? I do not recognize it. But I'm seeing more than two arms and a mining harness like from Overkill.
It looks like the visor goggles from the mining laser hybrids (presumably something akin to a welding mask to protect the eyes).
Spoiler:
The industrial saw looks promising. If it ends up a special weapon option for Acolytes and the codex includes a multiple ways to get the Brood-kin bonuses I could see them being a successful Ork boy equivalent.
Yep, looks a lot like Geordi La Forge to me.
Actually, now that I think about it, this army is also lead by a bald guy with a bulbous head…
I'm predicting the flyer to look like the enterprise!
So this new contrast guy in the background looks like a new guy also? Can't find that pose in any of the existing nid mans. Flyer seems like something they wouldn't have access to. Perhaps a shuttle but it would be bulk landers not really game scale. As soon as a whiff of xenos taint is detected I think protocols would be IoM navy blockade and any surface to space travel be cut off. And if keeping the mining theme can anyone give me an example of any form of flyers? Admech has no flyers so its not unprecedented to have a flyer free army. Perhaps instead they will get a AA platform. Could see a converted rivet gun filling the sky with hypervelocity shot. Or mining charge flak launcher. Anyone else have ideas on mining equipment they might scavenge?
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: So this new contrast guy in the background looks like a new guy also? Can't find that pose in any of the existing nid mans. Flyer seems like something they wouldn't have access to. Perhaps a shuttle but it would be bulk landers not really game scale. As soon as a whiff of xenos taint is detected I think protocols would be IoM navy blockade and any surface to space travel be cut off. And if keeping the mining theme can anyone give me an example of any form of flyers? Admech has no flyers so its not unprecedented to have a flyer free army. Perhaps instead they will get a AA platform. Could see a converted rivet gun filling the sky with hypervelocity shot. Or mining charge flak launcher. Anyone else have ideas on mining equipment they might scavenge?
The guy in the background looks like an acolyte to me. We know that acolytes/neophytes will have new kits, so new poses are to be expected. I see two right arm (the top one with a melee weapon, the bottom one with rending claws), and a single left arm. If that arm holds a pistol, it will be very similar to the current acolytes.
As for the flyer, the only rumor I saw mentioning it was mentioning a single new infantry box. We know there are at least two (but maybe the person thought these two were repacks, or at least not "new").
Harlequins don't have any flyers either (and no AA), and are also a rather new codex. However, both Admech and Harlequins could ally flyers easily (and Harlequins can even have them look a lot like the rest of their army), whereas GSC shouldn't be BB with anyone.
GSC has a greater need to be self-sufficient, and are not meant as an ally codex. But depending on what they can loot from IG, they might no need a flyer of their own.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: So this new contrast guy in the background looks like a new guy also? Can't find that pose in any of the existing nid mans. Flyer seems like something they wouldn't have access to. Perhaps a shuttle but it would be bulk landers not really game scale. As soon as a whiff of xenos taint is detected I think protocols would be IoM navy blockade and any surface to space travel be cut off. And if keeping the mining theme can anyone give me an example of any form of flyers? Admech has no flyers so its not unprecedented to have a flyer free army. Perhaps instead they will get a AA platform. Could see a converted rivet gun filling the sky with hypervelocity shot. Or mining charge flak launcher. Anyone else have ideas on mining equipment they might scavenge?
The guy in the background looks like an acolyte to me. We know that acolytes/neophytes will have new kits, so new poses are to be expected. I see two right arm (the top one with a melee weapon, the bottom one with rending claws), and a single left arm. If that arm holds a pistol, it will be very similar to the current acolytes.
As for the flyer, the only rumor I saw mentioning it was mentioning a single new infantry box. We know there are at least two (but maybe the person thought these two were repacks, or at least not "new").
Harlequins don't have any flyers either (and no AA), and are also a rather new codex. However, both Admech and Harlequins could ally flyers easily (and Harlequins can even have them look a lot like the rest of their army), whereas GSC shouldn't be BB with anyone. GSC has a greater need to be self-sufficient, and are not meant as an ally codex. But depending on what they can loot from IG, they might no need a flyer of their own.
Surely they should be BB's with nids? Hell as soon as the hivemind gets close enough they become directly under their control!
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: So this new contrast guy in the background looks like a new guy also? Can't find that pose in any of the existing nid mans. Flyer seems like something they wouldn't have access to. Perhaps a shuttle but it would be bulk landers not really game scale. As soon as a whiff of xenos taint is detected I think protocols would be IoM navy blockade and any surface to space travel be cut off. And if keeping the mining theme can anyone give me an example of any form of flyers? Admech has no flyers so its not unprecedented to have a flyer free army. Perhaps instead they will get a AA platform. Could see a converted rivet gun filling the sky with hypervelocity shot. Or mining charge flak launcher. Anyone else have ideas on mining equipment they might scavenge?
The guy in the background looks like an acolyte to me. We know that acolytes/neophytes will have new kits, so new poses are to be expected. I see two right arm (the top one with a melee weapon, the bottom one with rending claws), and a single left arm. If that arm holds a pistol, it will be very similar to the current acolytes.
As for the flyer, the only rumor I saw mentioning it was mentioning a single new infantry box. We know there are at least two (but maybe the person thought these two were repacks, or at least not "new").
Harlequins don't have any flyers either (and no AA), and are also a rather new codex. However, both Admech and Harlequins could ally flyers easily (and Harlequins can even have them look a lot like the rest of their army), whereas GSC shouldn't be BB with anyone. GSC has a greater need to be self-sufficient, and are not meant as an ally codex. But depending on what they can loot from IG, they might no need a flyer of their own.
Surely they should be BB's with nids? Hell as soon as the hivemind gets close enough they become directly under their control!
When Deathwatch overkill was first released, GW published rules for the model so they could be used in normal 40K. GSC was BB with nids (not everyone agreed on the interpretation of their ally matrix, but that's how I read it). But GW clarified that they are not BB with tyranids.
We'll see what the codex says, but GW's mind seems pretty set.
FW has been moving away from the renegades as of late, they may come out with a new line for the horus heresy but IDK if the main GW folks will take that over for their version of 30k.
Yeah, I was actually working on a "gifts of the hive mind" rule set when the current genestealer cults came on the scene.
Dropped it due to official support, but would have traded chaos for Tyranids and made the army feel like the final assault by a cult that had taken over the P.D.F.
Just a heads up as I have a good friend who is a dealer. Not much info has been let out of the bag but the contents of the codex will indeed have rules for Astra militarum units available to the cults! As well as eight formations and stolen war gear. Makes me wonder what vehicles may be available!
The description he received gave no specifics just Astra militarum units usable by the cults but I will be estatic if that includes a leman Russ! More likely a chimera
MajorWesJanson wrote: You have Limos. If anyone needs Land Raider access, it's Harlequins.
I'm an equal Land Raider opportunity kind of Commissar. Everyone can have them! Even the Ta... ok no, not the Tau. I'm not that crazy.
The Tau would just use them to drive away from the enemy, anyway. Everyone knows the proper use of a Land Raider is to rock right up the enemy and slowly file out into their gunfire before your survivors charge them in glorious melee.
MajorWesJanson wrote: You have Limos. If anyone needs Land Raider access, it's Harlequins.
I'm an equal Land Raider opportunity kind of Commissar. Everyone can have them! Even the Ta... ok no, not the Tau. I'm not that crazy.
The Tau would just use them to drive away from the enemy, anyway. Everyone knows the proper use of a Land Raider is to rock right up the enemy and slowly file out into their gunfire before your survivors charge them in glorious melee.
Commissar-Danno wrote: FW has been moving away from the renegades as of late, they may come out with a new line for the horus heresy but IDK if the main GW folks will take that over for their version of 30k.
How do you figure that? Most recent IA is all about renegades and Vraks version 2 featured them also. Not exactly a very evidence based opinion :p
We have detected possible alien contamination in your sector.
The Ordo Xenos has requested that all guardsman be on the lookout for individuals acting suspiciously, sickly, or showing any sign of alien taint. The exact nature of the alien infection has not been disclosed, but the Inquisition has requested that any individuals showing unusual symptoms, or those folically challenged, be subject to immediate quarantine, for their own good*.
In addition, your usual supply of rations has been identified as a possible source of infection, and as such, shipments from usual locations have been halted with immediate effect and are headed for the incinerator. Fortunately, we have secured an alternate supplier. Ghosar Agri Solutions were only too happy to help with the war effort and have kindly donated 10,000 crates of supplies. These are already on route and will be with you in a matter of days.
In related news, following the sad death of Preacher Theodor Harex** we are delighted to announce that your regiment’s spiritual guidance will henceforth be provided by a new preacher, also generously provided by Ghosar Agri Solutions: Sebastian Quintus. He has requested that the first congregation be held in the hangar bay upon delivery of our new rations so that we may thank the Emperor for such a glorious bounty.
Fear not, we are sure that the Ordo Xenos will have the situation resolved quickly.
Thought for the Day:
“Death brings no peace to the unfaithful.”
*Any guardsmen who fail to report such individuals will also be quarantined.
**Investigation into his death has found no cause for suspicion.
What are the odds that GSC will have access to artillery like basilisks and wyverns, do you suppose?
If they are getting access to Russ’s, I think it’s well within the realm of possibility.
The only thing holding them back would be an overall meta-theme to the army. If GW wanted to keep them from just being tainted guard++, they might not allow them access to heavy artillery, etc.
What are the odds that GSC will have access to artillery like basilisks and wyverns, do you suppose?
If they are getting access to Russ’s, I think it’s well within the realm of possibility.
The only thing holding them back would be an overall meta-theme to the army. If GW wanted to keep them from just being tainted guard++, they might not allow them access to heavy artillery, etc.
If GW wanted to keep them from doing that, then they shouldn't even allow Russes.
BrookM wrote: Holy gak man, calm the feth down already.
Perfectly calm. Annoyed, but calm.
It's ridiculous that Guard got shoved the Taurox nonsense but here we're seeing a vehicle that would have fit in perfectly(an open-topped transport with a small-ish heavy weapon) to replace the legacy nonsense that is the Rough Riders...and we're seeing Guard vehicles shoveled in as well, because hey it's not like Genestealer Cults have traditionally been tied to Planetary Defense Forces instead of Guard Regiments...and it's not like they've been making an effort to distance the two even further, to the point of wrecking an integral part of the Cadian fluff(Interior Guard was pure Guardsmen; now it's a PDF quality organization).
It's my understanding that in the original cult army list they had access to russes, sentinels, chimeras, and a friend told me they could take Valkyries as well (I didn't think the Valkyrie existed in 3e)
tetrisphreak wrote: It's my understanding that in the original cult army list they had access to russes, sentinels, chimeras, and a friend told me they could take Valkyries as well (I didn't think the Valkyrie existed in 3e)
The Valkyrie did not exist then.
I don't know the original Cult army list, but there was mention in this thread from people who would have been playing around that time about Land Raiders...which used to be a more widespread thing, so who cares what the original Cult army list had?
BrookM wrote: Holy gak man, calm the feth down already.
Perfectly calm. Annoyed, but calm.
It's ridiculous that Guard got shoved the Taurox nonsense but here we're seeing a vehicle that would have fit in perfectly(an open-topped transport with a small-ish heavy weapon) to replace the legacy nonsense that is the Rough Riders...and we're seeing Guard vehicles shoveled in as well, because hey it's not like Genestealer Cults have traditionally been tied to Planetary Defense Forces instead of Guard Regiments...and it's not like they've been making an effort to distance the two even further, to the point of wrecking an integral part of the Cadian fluff(Interior Guard was pure Guardsmen; now it's a PDF quality organization).
I'm looking at an old Genestealer Cult codex right now and Leman Russes were available to them. What's your problem exactly?
Could we maybe wait and see exactly how things work? The last time we saw true looted vehicles in 40K, they had a special rule that made them less reliable than their IG counterparts. Perhaps these liberated vehicles will be similarly hampered?
And if you don't like something they have access to, don't use it, or convert/scratchbuild a PDF-based equivalent. Who says your "Leman Russ" has to be an actual "Leman Russ" instead of a locally produced heavy battle tank or even a "Ghosar Quintus Pattern Heavy Hauler retrofitted with a battle cannon"
Maybe they'll have access to many things, but with strong limitations on the numbers they can field.
It could be "you can only bring one looted vehicle per X units of something else".
Or the looted stuff is only part of formations, where it's only a small portion of the force.
There are ways to include some IG vehicle without stealing IG's thunder.
The one I'm looking at has no Land Raiders, but it does have Captured Predators and Captured Rhinos. Note that the Leman Russ didn't have the Captured keyword...
fresus wrote: Maybe they'll have access to many things, but with strong limitations on the numbers they can field.
It could be "you can only bring one looted vehicle per X units of something else".
Or the looted stuff is only part of formations, where it's only a small portion of the force.
There are ways to include some IG vehicle without stealing IG's thunder.
When was the last book you came across with a 0-1 option?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ambience 327 wrote: Could we maybe wait and see exactly how things work? The last time we saw true looted vehicles in 40K, they had a special rule that made them less reliable than their IG counterparts. Perhaps these liberated vehicles will be similarly hampered?
That was for Orks. GSCs aren't Orks, are they?
And if you don't like something they have access to, don't use it, or convert/scratchbuild a PDF-based equivalent. Who says your "Leman Russ" has to be an actual "Leman Russ" instead of a locally produced heavy battle tank or even a "Ghosar Quintus Pattern Heavy Hauler retrofitted with a battle cannon"
Look at the picture. That's a Leman Russ with a hull mounted Multi-Melta.
Okay, cool, I didn't play 40k when genestealer cults were a thing. And yeah, what they had in the past doesn't guarantee this update will include any of it, but it's a good idea of the types of things this book might include.
So we should probably anticipate two more teaser photos tomorrow and friday with preorders going up saturday morning and a full codex cover reveal, etc. I'm really excited over this.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I hope they do interviews with the authors again as well, like with Deathwatch. That was an enjoyable watch.
I like the way they are rolling this out with teasers within teasers. I tried to show the background image a little better but I'm not very good with photoshop. Edit assuming this is the new vehicle, may we be seeing a dual build? That glimpse looks quite different from what was shown in the earlier artwork.
I'm happy for those who are excited for the Genestealer Cults, no matter my feelings on the Guard stuff being thrown in. I'm gonna bow out of this thread for awhile so that I don't let my negativity dampen anyone's feelings.
Bro, calm down. The established narrative for Genestealer Cult saw them using Leman Russes and even commandeered Space Marine Predators and Rhinos. This is not breaking their fluff. Besides, as an earlier poster pointed out, if you have a problem with it on that front then you can just heavily convert or scratch build other models and use them as appropriate stand-ins.
The Cult mixing their own unique units, select Astra Militarum units all the while being the only faction that can properly ally with Tyranids is a stroke of genius. Regardless of how you feel about the Cult itself, Tyranid players are going to be jumping for joy at the added versatility they just received without having to worry about Come the Apocalypse rules.
The background of the tank image appears to be a front-view of the GSC Hum-vee that we saw artwork for in the video on Sunday, and silhouetted to the left in the foreground of the same image.
Its pretty smart of GW honestly. If all the guard vehicles, or most at least, are useful to the GSC then all they need to do is sell a few infantry and character kits and put vehicle crew on those sprues. Done and done. It make a release WAY easier then if they had to flesh out a whole new line. I mean look at the cult mech and skitarii, they are neat but holy crap they have two vehicles, the chicken and the crab. They should have many more then that eventually, but look how long that takes.
Chikout wrote: I like the way they are rolling this out with teasers within teasers. I tried to show the background image a little better but I'm not very good with photoshop. Edit assuming this is the new vehicle, may we be seeing a dual build? That glimpse looks quite different from what was shown in the earlier artwork.
Yeah, that makes it look more like a technical.
Edit: I'm not convinced yet about favorable allying with Tyranids. They approach allies from a fluff perspective, and there's a definite argument to be made that GCults would never be "allied" with a hive fleet. Obviously, fluff can change.
kronk wrote: IF they can be Battle Bros with each other (GSC and Tyranids).
Common, GW. Don't wuss out! Throw a gaunt a bone!
It ain't even necessary, Allies of Convenience has no real downsides for the two armies if you want to run a mass of Tyranids ahead of a wall of Guard tanks or whatever other permutation you desire. Genestealer Cult are going to be so darned good for Tyranids!
@gorgon Genestealer Cult are currently Allies of Convenience with Tyranids.
kronk wrote: IF they can be Battle Bros with each other (GSC and Tyranids).
Common, GW. Don't wuss out! Throw a gaunt a bone!
It ain't even necessary, Allies of Convenience has no real downsides for the two armies if you want to run a mass of Tyranids ahead of a wall of Guard tanks or whatever other permutation you desire. Genestealer Cult are going to be so darned good for Tyranids!
@gorgon Genestealer Cult are currently Allies of Convenience with Tyranids.
Yeah, I'm just not expecting anything better than that like some are. And I wouldn't be shocked if it got worse with the codex.
Ambience 327 wrote: Could we maybe wait and see exactly how things work? The last time we saw true looted vehicles in 40K, they had a special rule that made them less reliable than their IG counterparts. Perhaps these liberated vehicles will be similarly hampered?
That was for Orks. GSCs aren't Orks, are they?
No, but that wasn't my point. My point was, just because they are getting access to some Guard stuff, doesn't invalidate Guard. The vehicles could be worse, and they certainly won't benefit from Tank Commanders and Orders and the like, nor will they be Battle Brothers with Armies of the Imperium, so there is still a place for the Astra Militarum.
And if you don't like something they have access to, don't use it, or convert/scratchbuild a PDF-based equivalent. Who says your "Leman Russ" has to be an actual "Leman Russ" instead of a locally produced heavy battle tank or even a "Ghosar Quintus Pattern Heavy Hauler retrofitted with a battle cannon"
Look at the picture. That's a Leman Russ with a hull mounted Multi-Melta.
Oh yes, that is definitely a Leman Russ model, but I'm saying you don't have to use a Leman Russ if you don't think they should have one. Leave it out, or use something more appropriate in your eyes. Forge your own narrative.
And for all those who continue to dog on the illustrious cult limo, I have to say my peace. The limo makes sense to me. While the Cult is in hiding, high ranking members may need to travel around in relative anonymity and safety - an armoured civilian transport can be rather useful for such purposes. The 40K universe is a rather dangerous place, so having a few guns mounted on such a vehicle would likely be a common occurrance. When the Cult is unmasked or chooses to reveal itself, they would want to press every asset they have into service For the Father! Thus, if they already have a civilian vehicle that has been armoured and armed, why wouldn't they use it in battle?
That bit of fluff posted last page ha me giggling a bit. Looks like the GSC on Ghosar didn't get wiped. Or its slightly before that. Either way, this is awesome.
Carnikang wrote: That bit of fluff posted last page ha me giggling a bit. Looks like the GSC on Ghosar didn't get wiped. Or its slightly before that. Either way, this is awesome.
Yup. And it looks like I need to buy some containers for my cult to travel in
Red Corsair wrote:Its pretty smart of GW honestly. If all the guard vehicles, or most at least, are useful to the GSC then all they need to do is sell a few infantry and character kits and put vehicle crew on those sprues. Done and done. It make a release WAY easier then if they had to flesh out a whole new line. I mean look at the cult mech and skitarii, they are neat but holy crap they have two vehicles, the chicken and the crab. They should have many more then that eventually, but look how long that takes.
Why stop there? Why not ally with Tau and CST Tau? This way Tau players can have access to psychic powers. Why not Eldar? Why not Orks or any other race? Hell you can even say Necrons would accept this since it's giving the Necrons flesh and be able to be put in sentinent bodies and have a full grown flesh Necron force in a about 100 years or so.
So basically get the person to buy a lot of kits not just kits for AM. Then maybe tha tperson would get a taste of Tau or Eldar or Ors or what ever and then start collecting them. NOw that would have been genius.
Ambience 327 wrote: And for all those who continue to dog on the illustrious cult limo, I have to say my peace. The limo makes sense to me. While the Cult is in hiding, high ranking members may need to travel around in relative anonymity and safety - an armoured civilian transport can be rather useful for such purposes. The 40K universe is a rather dangerous place, so having a few guns mounted on such a vehicle would likely be a common occurrance. When the Cult is unmasked or chooses to reveal itself, they would want to press every asset they have into service For the Father! Thus, if they already have a civilian vehicle that has been armoured and armed, why wouldn't they use it in battle?
It doesn't literally have to be a limo, either. Remember how the A-Team used to weld steel plates to B.A.'s van? It's like that.
fresus wrote: Maybe they'll have access to many things, but with strong limitations on the numbers they can field.
It could be "you can only bring one looted vehicle per X units of something else".
Or the looted stuff is only part of formations, where it's only a small portion of the force.
There are ways to include some IG vehicle without stealing IG's thunder.
When was the last book you came across with a 0-1 option?
I didn't talk about a true 0-1 option, as these are indeed a rare sight nowadays.
But limitations still exist: either in the form of slots that are unlocked when taking other things (like the lone wolf in the Space wolf codex, you can only take 0-1 per troop that you buy), or again, in formations: the looted vehicles could very well be exclusive to formations that require many troops, HQ and other things to be fielded, while allowing you to take a single looted vehicle.
A single Leman Russ in a formation that clocks at 1000pts would not step on IG's toes, while allowing GSC to have some flavor and nice modeling options.
Anyway, I guess we'll have to wait for the codex to know how this will work out.
Red Corsair wrote:Its pretty smart of GW honestly. If all the guard vehicles, or most at least, are useful to the GSC then all they need to do is sell a few infantry and character kits and put vehicle crew on those sprues. Done and done. It make a release WAY easier then if they had to flesh out a whole new line. I mean look at the cult mech and skitarii, they are neat but holy crap they have two vehicles, the chicken and the crab. They should have many more then that eventually, but look how long that takes.
Why stop there? Why not ally with Tau and CST Tau? This way Tau players can have access to psychic powers. Why not Eldar? Why not Orks or any other race? Hell you can even say Necrons would accept this since it's giving the Necrons flesh and be able to be put in sentinent bodies and have a full grown flesh Necron force in a about 100 years or so.
So basically get the person to buy a lot of kits not just kits for AM. Then maybe tha tperson would get a taste of Tau or Eldar or Ors or what ever and then start collecting them. NOw that would have been genius.
Genestealer Cults have been known to arise in Ork society - usually short lived but they do happen.
Spyro_Killer wrote: I love the abundance of birching before it's even up for advance order
To be fair the bitching is basically two people and one of which already pulled out of the thread to not dampen the mood since it's a personal gripe and not something he thinks should affect others. Overall this seems to be a very, very well received released. And judging by the lack of Overwatch GC stuff on ebay it seems to be popular beyond it too
Spyro_Killer wrote: I love the abundance of birching before it's even up for advance order
Welcome to the internet.
After messing around in photoshop a bit, it appears that the background image is a close-up of the black silhouetted vehicle in the bottom left, which is the same vehicle we saw teased in the video. It looks different because it's coming towards the camera from the left to the right, which is the opposite direction as seen in the video. The background grey-scale shows a dual barreled turret and then what appears to be a railing moving from the right to the top left corner of the image, similar to what is visible in the silhouette. It's possible that the kit will have two options, one that has an almost truck-like open rear section (as hinted in this new image) and one that's armoured (as visible in the video).
Can't wait to see proper images of what we are getting for this release GSC will more than likely be on my list of to get items. If not for anything more than kill team. I'd love to be able to properly ally them with my nids.
Sure the tyranids don't technically "ally" with the cult. But they do take them over.
It doesn't literally have to be a limo, either. Remember how the A-Team used to weld steel plates to B.A.'s van? It's like that.
From what I recall their shooting was about as accurate as BS2 cultists too
Well, they shot no better or worse than the other elite military force from the '80s.
The '80s were certainly the golden age of firing thousands of rounds of ammo, blowing up some conveniently-placed fuel drums, and sending the bad guys scurrying away without a casualty.
I eagerly await the salty goodness when the tears start flowing from those who honestly believe that GSC will ally with Tyranids in any way different than they were ruled already.
From Natfka. Don't want to hear about your opinion of him. Don't like him then don't read any further. Need to make a comment on him then that speaks more of your character than it does of Natfka.
We have heard a couple of legit rumors about what is going to be in the new codex, including a "limo" of some type, and that some Astra Militarum entries will be accessible to the new Genestealer codex.
Now we have the details for this week's pre-orders...... check them out!
These are from great sources and answers several questions.... Including where the icon is on the new dice!
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Here are some Details regarding the Upcoming release:
Codex Genestealer Cults:
-Will have a new Psychic Discipline, "Broodmind" with 7 powers.
-8 New Formations
- 104 Pages, Including All datasheets for the previous Overkill releases as well as Wargear.
-50$
Genestealer Cult Acolyte Hybrids:
-5 Acolyte Hybrids with Autopistols, Close Combat Weapons, Blasting charges and Rending Claws
-Can also be built as Hybrid Metamorphs with autopistols, metamorph Talons, Blasting Charges and Reding Claws
-Options for a Acolythe or Metamorph Leader with 2 Special Heads that can be armed with a Bonesword
-optional Handflamers, 1 heavy rock saw, 1 heavy rock drill, 1 heavy rock cutter.
-40$
genestealer Cult Neophyte Hybrids:
-10 Neophytes with autoguns, autopistols and blasting charges.
-optional seismis cannon, heavy stubber or mining laser aswell as 10 shotguns
-options for a neophyte leader with various wargear.
-40$
Genestealer Cult Dice:
-20 Dice with Genestealer Cult icon on the 1.
-20$ Limited time only
Genestealer Cult Datacards:
-7 Psychic Powers of the Broodmind Discipline
- 36 Tactical Objectives
-13.50$
Davor wrote: From Natfka. Don't want to hear about your opinion of him. Don't like him then don't read any further. Need to make a comment on him then that speaks more of your character than it does of Natfka.
Rawr.
Although in this case, Natfka's post is almost certainly accurate as it isn't really a rumor since the WD is already out in the wild. Someone opened the shrink and typed up what is inside.
BloodGrin wrote: I eagerly await the salty goodness when the tears start flowing from those who honestly believe that GSC will ally with Tyranids in any way different than they were ruled already.
Not that I wont be if they aren't, I'm hopeful considering they're getting their own psychic power list, rather than using book powers like the GSC formation from DW:OK.
Neophyte box comes with shotguns eh? Those puppies will go for a lot, IG players are always making shotgun vets.
@Nostrodamus
Thats definitely a Leman Russ. It's the older model based on the look of it but it checks out. Has the raised turret ring platform thing and has the classic hull shape. Probably has the old track guards on it which is throwing off the profile to you
This look so amazing. Except for the 1 on the dices. Damn is GW stubborn and moronic sometime. Eveybody and their mothers been asking for the symbol on the 6, yet they continue to put it on the 1. They lose a lot of sales because of that.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Has the raised turret ring platform thing and has the classic hull shape.
The one on the left with the dude on top, manning the gun? Sweet!
Or are we talking about different pictures?
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streetsamurai wrote: This look so amazing. Except for the 1 on the dices. Damn is GW stubborn and moronic sometime. Eveybody and their mothers been asking for the symbol on the 6, yet they continue to put it on the 1. They lose a lot of sales because of that.
My GSC will be so counter culture, our symbols will be on the 4s.
streetsamurai wrote: This look so amazing. Except for the 1 on the dices. Damn is GW stubborn and moronic sometime. Eveybody and their mothers been asking for the symbol on the 6, yet they continue to put it on the 1. They lose a lot of sales because of that.
You say that, but as far as I can tell, these limited dice always seem to sell out.
Davor wrote: From Natfka. Don't want to hear about your opinion of him. Don't like him then don't read any further. Need to make a comment on him then that speaks more of your character than it does of Natfka.
Rawr.
Although in this case, Natfka's post is almost certainly accurate as it isn't really a rumor since the WD is already out in the wild. Someone opened the shrink and typed up what is inside.
That is what I thought but then how come we don't have more stuff about Custodes then if that was the case? I thought WD was suppose to talk about the month before, not what is happening in the current month. Maybe that rumour was wrong then how WD is going to work now. Time will tell this Saturday I guess.
Davor wrote: From Natfka. Don't want to hear about your opinion of him. Don't like him then don't read any further. Need to make a comment on him then that speaks more of your character than it does of Natfka.
Rawr.
Although in this case, Natfka's post is almost certainly accurate as it isn't really a rumor since the WD is already out in the wild. Someone opened the shrink and typed up what is inside.
That is what I thought but then how come we don't have more stuff about Custodes then if that was the case? I thought WD was suppose to talk about the month before, not what is happening in the current month. Maybe that rumour was wrong then how WD is going to work now. Time will tell this Saturday I guess.
Custodes is the month after, preorder for cults is this Saturday with release the following week, so they would be released the same week as October WD. This matches exactly with how it was supposed to work looking over the releases of the following month and current week. For example this months white dwarf ends with gore chosen which is released this week.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Has the raised turret ring platform thing and has the classic hull shape.
The one on the left with the dude on top, manning the gun? Sweet!
Or are we talking about different pictures?
Can't tell if this is a joke or not.
I'm talking about the obvious leman Russ silhouette on the right side of the picture. You can even see the typical commander they use all the time with his hand in the air in the cupola on it
streetsamurai wrote: This look so amazing. Except for the 1 on the dices. Damn is GW stubborn and moronic sometime. Eveybody and their mothers been asking for the symbol on the 6, yet they continue to put it on the 1. They lose a lot of sales because of that.
It's actually a perfect metaphor for what is wrong tho.. even something as simple as dice they do the exact opposite of what people have wanted for years and years.
kronk wrote: Well, yeah. Agreed! The right one is definitely a Leman Russ. The one of the left looks...different!
Oh yeah of course the left model is new. Nostradamus was acting like the silhouette on the right wasn't a russ. Maybe I'm hilariously misreading this.
I really want some pics of the new cult vehicles, It looks better than the taurox by a longshot and all Ive seen is a blurry artwork piece and a silhouette May even use them as a substitute for tauroxes
I think it does. I think it's from a front three-quarter perspective with a bit of the tank's right multi-melta sponson visible. The little bump just above that, is the top of the sponson casing and then the smoke grenade canisters are visible. If you look closely, you can even see the driver's view port barely visible amongst all the textural noise.
In fact, a close inspection doesn't reveal anything that isn't available in the stock LR kit. Even the head appears to be the padded cap from the standard commander model. I *might* be wrong, but it I don't see anything in this picture that would indicate there's an upgrade sprue available for GSC. (though I'm still hoping that they get one!)
I think it does. I think it's from a front three-quarter perspective with a bit of the tank's right multi-melta sponson visible. The little bump just above that, is the top of the sponson casing and then the smoke grenade canisters are visible. If you look closely, you can even see the driver's view port barely visible amongst all the textural noise.
In fact, a close inspection doesn't reveal anything that isn't available in the stock LR kit. Even the head appears to be the padded cap from the standard commander model. I *might* be wrong, but it I don't see anything in this picture that would indicate there's an upgrade sprue available for GSC. (though I'm still hoping that they get one!)
This exactly. I held up one of mine a few minutes ago and it matches the profile perfectly. Well, as perfectly as it can match being its executioner with plasma sponsors, but it checks out.
I'd be interested in compering the contents and sprue numbers of the Acolyte and Neophyte boxes as there both the same price. I'm guessing that the Acotytes and Metamorphs only share a few parts(probably legs) so the two boxes have the same number of overall sprues even though they make a different number of similar sized models.
Dudeface wrote:Custodes is the month after, preorder for cults is this Saturday with release the following week, so they would be released the same week as October WD. This matches exactly with how it was supposed to work looking over the releases of the following month and current week. For example this months white dwarf ends with gore chosen which is released this week.
Thank you for the explanation. I was going by what I read here where a few people were ADDAMANT that White Dwarf is one month behind, so anything coming out in October would be November's issue. I see they are wrong now.
streetsamurai wrote: This look so amazing. Except for the 1 on the dices. Damn is GW stubborn and moronic sometime. Eveybody and their mothers been asking for the symbol on the 6, yet they continue to put it on the 1. They lose a lot of sales because of that.
It's actually a perfect metaphor for what is wrong tho.. even something as simple as dice they do the exact opposite of what people have wanted for years and years.
Quite confusing. As a sucker for themed tie-ins I'd have bought them for most armies. As is, I only got the Deathwatch set as their reroll 1s rule actually make their setup advantageous for once.
Dudeface wrote:Custodes is the month after, preorder for cults is this Saturday with release the following week, so they would be released the same week as October WD. This matches exactly with how it was supposed to work looking over the releases of the following month and current week. For example this months white dwarf ends with gore chosen which is released this week.
Thank you for the explanation. I was going by what I read here where a few people were ADDAMANT that White Dwarf is one month behind, so anything coming out in October would be November's issue. I see they are wrong now.
Preorders for GSCs are September 24th(this Saturday), releases are October 1st(next Saturday).
People are adamant that White Dwarf is one month behind, because that's how GW has said it will work. We get an issue covering the month instead of a week.
streetsamurai wrote: This look so amazing. Except for the 1 on the dices. Damn is GW stubborn and moronic sometime. Eveybody and their mothers been asking for the symbol on the 6, yet they continue to put it on the 1. They lose a lot of sales because of that.
It's actually a perfect metaphor for what is wrong tho.. even something as simple as dice they do the exact opposite of what people have wanted for years and years.
If they sell out how are they going to figure out that isn't what most people want?
The "jeep" looks to have the same wheel base and proportions as that "armored car" we've seen art for... it seems easy to believe GW might have two versions from one kit for it. One purely open topped as the silhouette version looks like and then the semi-enclosed with the parapet like the art.
I'm going to be kinda pissed if I converted up all my Deathwatch Overkill Hybrids to be better than everyone else's, and then the plebs get multi-pose boxed sets anyway.
Just kidding. I'm unreasonably excited about this release, and I hardly play 40K anymore. This will be the first proper, officially published Genestealer Cult list since 2nd Edition, and that's awesome. They were always one of my favorite parts of the lore.
Don't forget a totally cool Kroot Mercenaries with a Predator (movie)theme to it and not the lame space chicken theme. They can evolve to look different. Just say they evolved already and give the Kroot a cooler look than space chickens.
If Squats and Sisters come out before Kroot Mercenaries/Hunters/New Xenos faction ima be pissed.
streetsamurai wrote: This look so amazing. Except for the 1 on the dices. Damn is GW stubborn and moronic sometime. Eveybody and their mothers been asking for the symbol on the 6, yet they continue to put it on the 1. They lose a lot of sales because of that.
It's actually a perfect metaphor for what is wrong tho.. even something as simple as dice they do the exact opposite of what people have wanted for years and years.
Horse gak.
What will it take for people to get over the cliche "Games Workshop bad" brain disease that permeates this place?
GW has done pretty much everything right now for well over a year.
You want FAQs? BOOM
You want lower priced boxes? BOOM
You want to move the story? BOOM
Plastic HH? BOOM
Deathwatch? BOOM
Genestealer Cult? BOOM
Admech? Harlequins? Making good codexes with alot of updates and campaigns? BOOM
Even White Dwarf is fantastic again.
Get over living in the boo hoo past and enjoy what is happening, if you don't you have nobody to blame but yourself.
what are the lower priced boxes you are talking about? A lot of their release are still outrageously expensive.
Don't say the start collecting boxes, since they are not different than the batallion we had before, and are therefore not something new (GW always had some discounted bundles). The problem never was the price of what is included in these bundles, but the price of the minis that you have to buy individually. And they have done nothing to change this (Kharn at 35 USD, and 10 ugly monoposed naked swarves at 60 USD)
Agreed for the rest of your post ( except that I don't think a lot of people actually wanted GW to move the storyline, at least, not the majority of the customers
streetsamurai wrote: This look so amazing. Except for the 1 on the dices. Damn is GW stubborn and moronic sometime. Eveybody and their mothers been asking for the symbol on the 6, yet they continue to put it on the 1. They lose a lot of sales because of that.
It's actually a perfect metaphor for what is wrong tho.. even something as simple as dice they do the exact opposite of what people have wanted for years and years.
Horse gak.
What will it take for people to get over the cliche "Games Workshop bad" brain disease that permeates this place?
GW has done pretty much everything right now for well over a year.
You want FAQs? BOOM
You want lower priced boxes? BOOM
You want to move the story? BOOM
Plastic HH? BOOM
Deathwatch? BOOM
Genestealer Cult? BOOM
Admech? Harlequins? Making good codexes with alot of updates and campaigns? BOOM
Even White Dwarf is fantastic again.
Get over living in the boo hoo past and enjoy what is happening, if you don't you have nobody to blame but yourself.
Squats, Sisters when those return then... then you can say GW has reformed.
streetsamurai wrote: what are the lower priced boxes you are talking about? A lot of their release are still outrageously expensive.
Don't say the start collecting boxes, since they are not different than the batallion we had before, and are therefore not something new (GW always had some discounted bundles). The problem never was the price of what is included in these bundles, but the price of the minis that you have to buy individually. And they have done nothing to change this (Kharn at 35 USD, and 10 ugly monoposed naked swarves at 60 USD)
Agreed for the rest of your post ( except that I don't think a lot of people actually wanted GW to move the storyline, at least, not the majority of the customers
Storm cloud boxes, knight renegade boxes they've had a few discount bundles, free sprues in deathwatch boxes, death masque etc. To name a few
I don't see, why SC boxes aren't a good example of
Lower prices. Instead of making every kit in existence a little bit cheaper, they make bundles,(not online one-click crap, like before) that offers a good discount. Making every kit cheaper won't happen. Ever. Can you give me an example of any other wargaming company, that lowers their price on already existing models
Afaik, not unless it's Black Friday or something, but that's just for a limited period of time.
Death Masque, Imperial Knight game- they give you a chance to save, thus a sum you spend per army is less= cheaper product. Death watch vets are cheaper, than sternguard, as well as the master of the watch.
Squats are eaten by nids though plus they would just be stunty marines, which is kinda boring, imho.. In my opinion everything further away from SM design is cooler.
It turning into a pricing thread again, so back on topic
I hope sentinels are in the list- converting some ad mech dragoons into Giger-walkers with a gene cult theme would be awesome! Leman Russes are a tougher to "Giger/gene cult-tify"... Maybe carnifexes adjacent to hybrids?
streetsamurai wrote: what are the lower priced boxes you are talking about? A lot of their release are still outrageously expensive.
Don't say the start collecting boxes, since they are not different than the batallion we had before, and are therefore not something new (GW always had some discounted bundles). The problem never was the price of what is included in these bundles, but the price of the minis that you have to buy individually. And they have done nothing to change this (Kharn at 35 USD, and 10 ugly monoposed naked swarves at 60 USD)
Agreed for the rest of your post ( except that I don't think a lot of people actually wanted GW to move the storyline, at least, not the majority of the customers
How is the Start Collecting box not different? It's a starting force with an exclusive formation. All you need is the codex and a rule book to start playing. Or grab an AoS one where the rules are free, and the Handbook is only required for points play
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: I don't see, why SC boxes aren't a good example of
Lower prices. Instead of making every kit in existence a little bit cheaper, they make bundles,(not online one-click crap, like before) that offers a good discount. Making every kit cheaper won't happen. Ever. Can you give me an example of any other wargaming company, that lowers their price on already existing models
Afaik, not unless it's Black Friday or something, but that's just for a limited period of time.
Death Masque, Imperial Knight game- they give you a chance to save, thus a sum you spend per army is less= cheaper product. Death watch vets are cheaper, than sternguard, as well as the master of the watch.
It turning into a pricing thread again, so back on topic
I hope sentinels are in the list- converting some ad mech dragoons into Giger-walkers with a gene cult theme would be awesome! Leman Russes are a tougher to "Giger/gene cult-tify"... Maybe carnifexes adjacent to hybrids?
The point is that these kind of bundles always existed and are not something new for GW. Pointing to them as an example of lowering prices is not a good example since they only replaced the batallion and strike force that existed before, and which offered a comparable discount.
streetsamurai wrote: what are the lower priced boxes you are talking about? A lot of their release are still outrageously expensive.
Don't say the start collecting boxes, since they are not different than the batallion we had before, and are therefore not something new (GW always had some discounted bundles). The problem never was the price of what is included in these bundles, but the price of the minis that you have to buy individually. And they have done nothing to change this (Kharn at 35 USD, and 10 ugly monoposed naked swarves at 60 USD)
Agreed for the rest of your post ( except that I don't think a lot of people actually wanted GW to move the storyline, at least, not the majority of the customers
How is the Start Collecting box not different? It's a starting force with an exclusive formation. All you need is the codex and a rule book to start playing. Or grab an AoS one where the rules are free, and the Handbook is only required for points play
Same thing applied for the strikeforce/battalion (minus the formation, which didn't exist at the time), yu cpould play a game out of the box with them (yes you had to convert a guy to a HQ, but it's easy to do)
The "jeep" looks to have the same wheel base and proportions as that "armored car" we've seen art for... it seems easy to believe GW might have two versions from one kit for it. One purely open topped as the silhouette version looks like and then the semi-enclosed with the parapet like the art.
This is exactly what I thought when I saw this image...I think this is a variant of the armored car from the teaser video.
I think the kit will be the spiritual ancestor of the Arbites Riot Control Vehicle scratch built by McVey back in the day...
And with their current track record of bringing back all that was once cool, we'll see an Arbites release sooner than later...and this vehicle may likely be the basis for an Arbites armored vehicle...just like they have multiple variants based on the Chimera chassis.
The discount wasn't as good, iirc. Also, the new boxes may be played legally straight out of the box. Meaning you don't also then have to buy an H.Q. model to play, thereby also lowering the entry price point by another $25-$35.
Anyway, if they don't include an upgrade sprue for any guard vehicles for gsc I'll be disappointed. It would be a perfect way to create even more genestealer cult models because any head swaps etc would be compatible with the rest of the guard range.
streetsamurai wrote: what are the lower priced boxes you are talking about? A lot of their release are still outrageously expensive.
Don't say the start collecting boxes, since they are not different than the batallion we had before, and are therefore not something new (GW always had some discounted bundles). The problem never was the price of what is included in these bundles, but the price of the minis that you have to buy individually. And they have done nothing to change this (Kharn at 35 USD, and 10 ugly monoposed naked swarves at 60 USD)
Agreed for the rest of your post ( except that I don't think a lot of people actually wanted GW to move the storyline, at least, not the majority of the customers
How is the Start Collecting box not different? It's a starting force with an exclusive formation. All you need is the codex and a rule book to start playing. Or grab an AoS one where the rules are free, and the Handbook is only required for points play
Same thing applied for the strikeforce/battalion (minus the formation, which didn't exist at the time), yu cpould play a game out of the box with them (yes you had to convert a guy to a HQ, but it's easy to do)
So GW raised the prices, people complained, then GW did the right thing and made deals and you're still mad? Sure, it's not new, but the sitrkeforce/battalions are no longer in production and can only be bought on eBay or Amazon for a higher amount.
I do hope we'll at least get a reference in the fluff to other species succumbing to GC's. But, it's looking Imperium heavy.
Orks definitely used to have a freebooter faction, but the ork genome at least partly resisted the cult. Also, I can imagine Tau, with their shorter lifespans working as well. Kroot? Ratlings? Eldar would be difficult, slow, long gestation etc. But possible. - Has their ever been a Chaos world that was infiltrated?
I suppose the lifespan and inherent psykers make humans the most viable, but still.
BloodGrin wrote:Horse gak. What will it take for people to get over the cliche "Games Workshop bad" brain disease that permeates this place? GW has done pretty much everything right now for well over a year.
False. Over a year? It's only been 8 months that GW started the Smoke and Mirrors. Not over a year at all.
You want FAQs? BOOM
SHUKALAKA! Where are they? I don't seem them anywhere. Just first drafts that are not official or on GW website. Oh yeah FAQs on GW web site are over a year old.
You want lower priced boxes? BOOM
SHUKALAKA. I think people wanted cheaper prices on what they want, not WHAT GW is telling you to buy. Where are my cheaper prices for the Pyrovore? Where are my cheaper prices for Raveners? Where are my cheaper prices or anything that is not in a Get Started box? GW is not cheaper, just an illusion it s cheaper to get into. $100 Canadian is still a good chunk of coin to get started. Cheaper yes, but then shockingly expensive when you have to buy the rule book, codices and OTHER MINIS that ARE NOT CHEAPER.
You want to move the story? BOOM
SHUKALAKA. OOOOOOO the throne has started to fail. That is story advancement? Not very original. Oh wait, a story GW did Years ago, they are doing it again. Been there done that. Not very exciting since it can all disappear just like the first time.
Plastic HH? BOOM
SHUKALAKA. What was that about cheaper prices?
Deathwatch? BOOM
Out of how many BOOM you are doing you only have one fact correct. I guess that is the crap that stuck to the wall?
Genestealer Cult? BOOM
SHUKALAKA. Ah tooting the horn before it's even released? You know that poop I was just talking about? It might stick to the wall. But again it can slide right now. Looks like you may have BOOMED pre maturely
Admech? Harlequins? Making good codexes with alot of updates and campaigns? BOOM
SHUKALAKA. Not really seeing the Harlequins on the table. Are they really that good? Has the crap stuck to the wall or did it slide down? Might have to give you this one.
Even White Dwarf is fantastic again.
No it's not. It just doesn't smell as bad. Yet. Again why not wait after 12 issues and then toot your horn. Already two pre matures shots? Is this a third?
Get over living in the boo hoo past and enjoy what is happening, if you don't you have nobody to blame but yourself.
Or you have people like you white knighting everything and making excuses where people actually have LEGITAMITE reasons?
streetsamurai wrote: This look so amazing. Except for the 1 on the dices. Damn is GW stubborn and moronic sometime. Eveybody and their mothers been asking for the symbol on the 6, yet they continue to put it on the 1. They lose a lot of sales because of that.
It's actually a perfect metaphor for what is wrong tho.. even something as simple as dice they do the exact opposite of what people have wanted for years and years.
Horse gak.
What will it take for people to get over the cliche "Games Workshop bad" brain disease that permeates this place?
GW has done pretty much everything right now for well over a year.
You want FAQs? BOOM
You want lower priced boxes? BOOM
You want to move the story? BOOM
Plastic HH? BOOM
Deathwatch? BOOM
Genestealer Cult? BOOM
Admech? Harlequins? Making good codexes with alot of updates and campaigns? BOOM
Even White Dwarf is fantastic again.
Get over living in the boo hoo past and enjoy what is happening, if you don't you have nobody to blame but yourself.
GW is getting better, but they're nowhere near as good as youre making them out to be. Codexes are still widely imbalanced and prices have gone up if anything. Those Genestealer cultists for example are probably going to be over $40 a box MSRP for models that are maybe 50-60 pts a squad tops.
I'm not arguing that they're not improving, just that they're nowhere near as good as you make them sound.
streetsamurai wrote: what are the lower priced boxes you are talking about? A lot of their release are still outrageously expensive.
Don't say the start collecting boxes, since they are not different than the batallion we had before, and are therefore not something new (GW always had some discounted bundles). The problem never was the price of what is included in these bundles, but the price of the minis that you have to buy individually. And they have done nothing to change this (Kharn at 35 USD, and 10 ugly monoposed naked swarves at 60 USD)
Agreed for the rest of your post ( except that I don't think a lot of people actually wanted GW to move the storyline, at least, not the majority of the customers
How is the Start Collecting box not different? It's a starting force with an exclusive formation. All you need is the codex and a rule book to start playing. Or grab an AoS one where the rules are free, and the Handbook is only required for points play
Same thing applied for the strikeforce/battalion (minus the formation, which didn't exist at the time), yu cpould play a game out of the box with them (yes you had to convert a guy to a HQ, but it's easy to do)
So GW raised the prices, people complained, then GW did the right thing and made deals and you're still mad? Sure, it's not new, but the sitrkeforce/battalions are no longer in production and can only be bought on eBay or Amazon for a higher amount.
I wonder how on earth you arrived to the conclusion that I'm mad by reading my post. Only thing I did was correct the fallacy that GW has reduced their prices recently, by pointing out that bundle box is not something new from GW.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Really don't know what the problem is with GSC stealing Guard vehicles. Them getting Russes is nothing new.
I'm pretty exited about the GSC, but I can see how looted vehicle can be irritating to IG players.
Tanks are IG's thing. The Leman Russ is an iconic model, and is part of what defines IG. If another army is given the right to use that model, then IG looses some of what makes it unique.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: The discount wasn't as good, iirc. Also, the new boxes may be played legally straight out of the box. Meaning you don't also then have to buy an H.Q. model to play, thereby also lowering the entry price point by another $25-$35.
Anyway, if they don't include an upgrade sprue for any guard vehicles for gsc I'll be disappointed. It would be a perfect way to create even more genestealer cult models because any head swaps etc would be compatible with the rest of the guard range.
Variety being the spice of life, and all that.
The discount were in fact pretty much the same iirc. And the fact that no HQ were included actually made these boxes more usefull, since you weren't stuck with a bunch of useless HQ if you bought more than one.
For example, for the same price of the start collecting boxes (50 pounds) the Orks battleforce included 82,50 worth of stuffi, while the start collecting only include 80 pounds worth of stuff. And, as I said, if you bought multiple battleforce, you weren't stuck with multiple painboyz, as would be the case with the start collecting boxes.
Am I raging mind at GW for it? No. But I won't give them credit for doing something they always done like some white knights do.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Really don't know what the problem is with GSC stealing Guard vehicles. Them getting Russes is nothing new.
I'm pretty exited about the GSC, but I can see how looted vehicle can be irritating to IG players.
Tanks are IG's thing. The Leman Russ is an iconic model, and is part of what defines IG. If another army is given the right to use that model, then IG looses some of what makes it unique.
Orks had the Leman Russ, LatD too, even Space Wolves (the Exterminator version). It's really not that new.
Regarding the dice: just perform the old and sacred ritual of changing them with your opponent before the match and it all makes sense.
Yeah, nearly all the IGuard vehicles were included in the last "official", proper Genestealer Cult list (2nd Edition). The idea being that it would represent Planetary Defense Forces that had been infiltrated and subverted by cultists.
I see no problem with the Cult getting tanks and APCs. In fact, I'd be disappointed if they didn't.
streetsamurai wrote: This look so amazing. Except for the 1 on the dices. Damn is GW stubborn and moronic sometime. Eveybody and their mothers been asking for the symbol on the 6, yet they continue to put it on the 1. They lose a lot of sales because of that.
It's actually a perfect metaphor for what is wrong tho.. even something as simple as dice they do the exact opposite of what people have wanted for years and years.
Horse gak.
What will it take for people to get over the cliche "Games Workshop bad" brain disease that permeates this place?
GW has done pretty much everything right now for well over a year.
You want FAQs? BOOM
You want lower priced boxes? BOOM
You want to move the story? BOOM
Plastic HH? BOOM
Deathwatch? BOOM
Genestealer Cult? BOOM
Admech? Harlequins? Making good codexes with alot of updates and campaigns? BOOM
Even White Dwarf is fantastic again.
Get over living in the boo hoo past and enjoy what is happening, if you don't you have nobody to blame but yourself.
Squats, Sisters when those return then... then you can say GW has reformed.
S.Y.
People actually want Squats? What would they even do with them nowadays as an army type anyways? The better stuff for them was epic and I doubt we'd see some strange train weaponry.
gorgon wrote: Well, Obi-Wan called them precise, so perhaps they're BS2 in a universe of BS1.
I know I'm a bit late to the party, but I couldn't stop laughing when I saw this.
And the amazing thing is that Obi-Wan is probably right. I deal with precision and accuracy at work a fair deal, precision is essentially your ability to replicate similar results, and accuracy being your ability to obtain your intended target. Thus one can be precise and not accurate. When I read your comment I just imagined stormtroopers continually firing at Obi-Wan in cover, and continuously hitting the same barrel and him thinking "Man are these guys precise!"
All goofiness aside, I'm really excited a proper Cult codex is coming out. I don't really have interest in 40k for a number of reasons, but I'm pretty keen on putting together a Kill Team from my Overkill stuff, and this gives me that option now. Hopefully the boxed sets have some cool new options. I'm really intrigued by the idea they could be getting more mining based weapons.
Honestly, I never thought Sisters were that strong of a concept. Space marine nuns with guns seems shallow to me compared to the more archetypical concepts GW tends to roll with. I also think faith is a hard concept to translate into game mechanics, and GW has struggled with that IMO.
When you see them on the tabletop, I don't think there's enough differentiation from SM. The freakshow stuff, sure. But Sisters themselves are still more or less weaker SM, carrying similar equipment and riding around in similar vehicles. Maybe that's just a matter of better rules for the freakshow units that get them on the table.
I think they're mostly strong visually, but to me they don't seem like a polished concept despite having been through a few codices and permutations. Not saying they should be squatted, mind you. Given how they're getting through concepts as old as GCults, I'm sure they have something planned.
streetsamurai wrote: This look so amazing. Except for the 1 on the dices. Damn is GW stubborn and moronic sometime. Eveybody and their mothers been asking for the symbol on the 6, yet they continue to put it on the 1. They lose a lot of sales because of that.
It's actually a perfect metaphor for what is wrong tho.. even something as simple as dice they do the exact opposite of what people have wanted for years and years.
Horse gak. What will it take for people to get over the cliche "Games Workshop bad" brain disease that permeates this place? GW has done pretty much everything right now for well over a year. You want FAQs? BOOM You want lower priced boxes? BOOM You want to move the story? BOOM Plastic HH? BOOM Deathwatch? BOOM Genestealer Cult? BOOM Admech? Harlequins? Making good codexes with alot of updates and campaigns? BOOM Even White Dwarf is fantastic again.
Get over living in the boo hoo past and enjoy what is happening, if you don't you have nobody to blame but yourself.
GW is getting better, but they're nowhere near as good as youre making them out to be. Codexes are still widely imbalanced and prices have gone up if anything. Those Genestealer cultists for example are probably going to be over $40 a box MSRP for models that are maybe 50-60 pts a squad tops.
I'm not arguing that they're not improving, just that they're nowhere near as good as you make them sound.
Agreed, btw, I never expected to see someone praise GW for the quality of their codex Guess it shows that Roundtree could talk a gak directly in these fanboys mouth and make them believe it's chocolate ice cream (which they'll have to pay for of course)
H.B.M.C. wrote: Really don't know what the problem is with GSC stealing Guard vehicles. Them getting Russes is nothing new.
I'm pretty exited about the GSC, but I can see how looted vehicle can be irritating to IG players.
Tanks are IG's thing. The Leman Russ is an iconic model, and is part of what defines IG. If another army is given the right to use that model, then IG looses some of what makes it unique.
Orks had the Leman Russ, LatD too, even Space Wolves (the Exterminator version). It's really not that new.
Regarding the dice: just perform the old and sacred ritual of changing them with your opponent before the match and it all makes sense.
Space Wolves used to be able to take Leman Russ Tanks, too. Right?
Anyway, it doesn't matter anymore with Allies and Formations and gak. My Black Templars can take Leman Russ tanks buffed by Sanctioned Psychers!
gorgon wrote: Honestly, I never thought Sisters were that strong of a concept. Space marine nuns with guns seems shallow to me compared to the more archetypical concepts GW tends to roll with. I also think faith is a hard concept to translate into game mechanics, and GW has struggled with that IMO.
When you see them on the tabletop, I don't think there's enough differentiation from SM. The freakshow stuff, sure. But Sisters themselves are still more or less weaker SM, carrying similar equipment and riding around in similar vehicles. Maybe that's just a matter of better rules for the freakshow units that get them on the table.
I think they're mostly strong visually, but to me they don't seem like a polished concept despite having been through a few codices and permutations. Not saying they should be squatted, mind you. Given how they're getting through concepts as old as GCults, I'm sure they have something planned.
Indeed, I love the religious holy theme but I do hope they gain some more additional 'Unique' things to themselves.
Agreed, btw, I never expected to see someone praise GW for the quality of their codex Guess it shows that Roundtree could talk a gak directly in these fanboys mouth and make them believe it's chocolate ice cream (which they'll have to pay of course)
Not the 40k, but I can certainly say I'm enjoying the AoS Battletomes.
Not even the finest Dakka whining can dampen my excitement for this release. 20+ years I've waited, only now the minis are better and we get pretty tank toys too and big silly buzzsaws and mining lasers that even Marine players twist about. It's amazing!
And then I'll line them all up and they'all get shot to pieces before getting near assault and I'll still be smiling because GUYS IT'S FULL-ON GENESTEALER CULT.
And infantry. And guns. GSC got them to. The thieves!!!
fresus wrote: The Leman Russ is an iconic model, and is part of what defines IG. If another army is given the right to use that model, then IG looses some of what makes it unique.
Wolves had access to the Russ in 3rd Ed as well. Just sayin'. Plus with all the allies shenanigans that's been added to the game over the past few editions, I don't think that armies having units from other armies that big a deal. Again, it doesn't devalue the Russ, and it certainly doesn't stop people using it. Besides, the Leman Russ being part of GSC has been around for quite some time. I used to field them (and Land Raiders!) back in the day.
This is a complete non-issue, and is just Kan getting annoyed about nothing.
BloodGrin wrote: Horse gak. What will it take for people to get over the cliche "Games Workshop bad" brain disease that permeates this place? GW has done pretty much everything right now for well over a year. You want FAQs? BOOM You want lower priced boxes? BOOM You want to move the story? BOOM Plastic HH? BOOM Deathwatch? BOOM Genestealer Cult? BOOM Admech? Harlequins? Making good codexes with alot of updates and campaigns? BOOM Even White Dwarf is fantastic again.
Get over living in the boo hoo past and enjoy what is happening, if you don't you have nobody to blame but yourself.
Grot 6 wrote: Does anyone know where the plans are located to make the old school limo?
I have plenty of the old school hybrids, a couple of boxes of IG, and some conversion stuff for Genestealers....
Would like to see the old school Deathwing story scenarios, as well.
There werent plans for scratchbuilding limos, were there? I remember the text-only WD article and this excellent, recent report by the Eldritch Epistle blog also showing the underside of the original limos:
The Fyreslayers release was still set under the 'old' GW mentality. The releases since then have been cheaper. The Start Collecting boxes have a number of options which offer significantly increased savings as compared to the old battalion boxes, but more importantly they are better because they more or less only include units people would actually use, whereas the majority of battalion boxes had at least one unit that was bad enough few players used it. All-in-all having a Genestealer Cult release at all is an improvement and I think the placement of symbols on limited edition dice is a minor detail.
gorgon wrote: Honestly, I never thought Sisters were that strong of a concept. Space marine nuns with guns seems shallow to me compared to the more archetypical concepts GW tends to roll with. I also think faith is a hard concept to translate into game mechanics, and GW has struggled with that IMO.
The original Sisters with their psychology-based rules, frenzy, hatred, fearlessness, etc was good.
The Magical Space Jesus but Not Psychic Powers stuff that started in 3rd edition was bad. Took them from fanatical religious zealots, and tried to turn them into D&D Clerics. Which made even less sense the more the lore tried to push the Emperor as a Secular Leader fluff. Even if the Emperor transcended to godhood, why would he grant boons to the followers of the Ecclesiarchy just because they believed in him, since he never wanted to be a god when he was alive? The irony of the Ecclesiarchy in 40K is that they're actually perverting the word of the Emperor, and not bolstering it. The Ecclesiarchy represents everything that the Emperor punished Lorgar for. Giving the Sisters of Battle faith-based powers is downright daft.
I'd love to see the Sisters get completely re-tooled. Possibly built around the Frateris Milita and other mechanisms of the Crusade or something, rather than just as an uninspiring magical fire-based Ladymarines army. And I say this as somebody who actually owns SIsters of Battle, and has since they debuted in the late 90s. This idea probably won't happen, but some kind of differentiation other than pageboy haircuts and corsets.
And I say this as someone who has actually owned Sisters models dating all the way back to the late 90s when they debuted. Their fluff doesn't make sense, the army doesn't capture enough people's imagination, and they historically haven't sold very well (at least well enough to get any new models since 2003).
NinthMusketeer wrote: The Fyreslayers release was still set under the 'old' GW mentality. The releases since then have been cheaper. The Start Collecting boxes have a number of options which offer significantly increased savings as compared to the old battalion boxes, but more importantly they are better because they more or less only include units people would actually use, whereas the majority of battalion boxes had at least one unit that was bad enough few players used it. All-in-all having a Genestealer Cult release at all is an improvement and I think the placement of symbols on limited edition dice is a minor detail.
So, 40k Armies Thread, I guess that's not the least travelled part of the forum. Maybe.
I've seen a couple of threads asking about whether or not it was worth it to purchase an armies respective Battleforce. This being the case I decided to do a basic comparison of each Battleforce's cost compared to the cost of buying each set separately. In general the Battleforce generally gets you a little over a set for free making it a good buy in most situations, especially when starting out. Additionally, should GW bump the price of all the sets by $5 as they are wont to do, the Battleforce will save you an average of $15. In absolute terms the CSM, Necron, and SM Battleforces all represent exceptionally good purchases IMHO, and the Tau might depending on your preference for Kroot.
Blood Angels Battleforce: $100
Battleforce Contents: $136.25
Savings: $36.25
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Chaos Space Marine Battleforce: $110
Battleforce Contents: $153.08
Savings: $43.08
Review for Current Codex: AcasualDream (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Chaos Daemon Battleforce: $105
Battleforce Contents: $140.75
Savings: $35.75
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Dark Angels Ravenwing Battleforce: $105
Battle Force Contents: $164
Savings: $59
Review for Current Codex: sithjack (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Dark Eldar Battleforce: $95
Battleforce Contents: $125.75
Savings: $30.75
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Eldar Battleforce: $95
Battleforce Contents: $128.13
Savings: $33.13
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Cadian Battleforce: $115
Catachan Battleforce: $115
Battleforce Contents: $151.75
Savings: $36.75
Review for Current Codex: Nitrokitty (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Necron Battleforce: $90
Battleforce Contents: $141.66
Savings: $51.66
Review for Current Codex: Nitrokitty (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Ork Battleforce: $100
Battleforce Contents: $132.25
Savings: $32.25
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Space Marine Battleforce: $110
Battleforce Contents: $153.25
Savings: $43.25
Review for Current Codex: (Polaria (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces))
Space Wolves Battleforce: $100
Battleforce Contents: $132.50
Savings: $32.50
Review for Current Codex: mynameisgrax (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Tau Battleforce: $110
Battleforce Contents: $143.25
Savings: $33.25
Review for Current Codex: Aun'Vre (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Tyranid Battleforce: $110
Battleforce Contents: $144.50
Savings: $34.50
Review for Current Codex: Heirodule (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
This is all up to date as of 8/17/11, should it prove helpful I will endeavor to update whenever GW introduces a new Battleforce/Army Deal or raises price
Space Marines
Tier 3
10 Tactical Marines USD $40
1 Space Marine Dreadnought USD $46.25
1 Space Marine Captain in Terminator Armor USD $33 (Based off BA captain cost)
Total: $119.25 USD, with savings of 34.25
Astra Militarum
Tier 3
1 Leman Russ $49.50
1 Heavy Weapon team $16.00
1 Commissar $16.00
10 Cadian shock troops $29.00
Total: $110.50 with savings of $25.00
Tyranids
Tier 2
1 Hive Tyrant $53.75
3 Tyranid Warriors $51.00
10 Gargoyles $29.00
Total: $133.75 with savings of $48.75
Space Wolves
Tier 3
3 Thunderwolf Calvary $54.50
10 Grey Hunters/Blood Claws $37.00
1 Wolf Lord $16.00 (Extra model usually converted from a grey hunter model. Estimated price based on HQ unit costs)
Savings: $107.50 with a savings of $22.5
Daemons of Khorne
Tier 3
1 Herald on Blood Throne $40.00
3 Bloodcrushers $50 (Retail the box comes with a total of 6 at $100)
10 Bloodletters $29
Total: $119 with savings of $34
Daemons of Nurgle
Tier 1
3 Plague Drones $60
1 Herald of Nurgle $25.00
3 Nurglings $25
10 Plague bearers $29.00
Total: $139 with a savings of $54
end quote
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as we can see, the savings were pretty much comparable (to be honest the saving on the sc boxes might be a bit better s, but their worth is inflated by the ridiculous price of the clampack HQ). And as I said before, if you buy multiple start collecting boxes, you get the same HQ numerous times, and most of the time, you don't need more than one. Personally, I think that it compensate for the ''worthless'' unit in the battleforce, but ymmv.
Anyway, it's time for some minis to leak cause we are getting dangerously off topic
GW has been keeping this release really tight. Here we are roughly 2 days away from the preorders going live and we have only seen what they've publicly released. Is it safe to say there have been no real leaks?
NinthMusketeer wrote: The Fyreslayers release was still set under the 'old' GW mentality. The releases since then have been cheaper. The Start Collecting boxes have a number of options which offer significantly increased savings as compared to the old battalion boxes, but more importantly they are better because they more or less only include units people would actually use, whereas the majority of battalion boxes had at least one unit that was bad enough few players used it. All-in-all having a Genestealer Cult release at all is an improvement and I think the placement of symbols on limited edition dice is a minor detail.
So, 40k Armies Thread, I guess that's not the least travelled part of the forum. Maybe.
I've seen a couple of threads asking about whether or not it was worth it to purchase an armies respective Battleforce. This being the case I decided to do a basic comparison of each Battleforce's cost compared to the cost of buying each set separately. In general the Battleforce generally gets you a little over a set for free making it a good buy in most situations, especially when starting out. Additionally, should GW bump the price of all the sets by $5 as they are wont to do, the Battleforce will save you an average of $15. In absolute terms the CSM, Necron, and SM Battleforces all represent exceptionally good purchases IMHO, and the Tau might depending on your preference for Kroot.
Blood Angels Battleforce: $100
Battleforce Contents: $136.25
Savings: $36.25
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Chaos Space Marine Battleforce: $110
Battleforce Contents: $153.08
Savings: $43.08
Review for Current Codex: AcasualDream (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Chaos Daemon Battleforce: $105
Battleforce Contents: $140.75
Savings: $35.75
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Dark Angels Ravenwing Battleforce: $105
Battle Force Contents: $164
Savings: $59
Review for Current Codex: sithjack (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Dark Eldar Battleforce: $95
Battleforce Contents: $125.75
Savings: $30.75
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Eldar Battleforce: $95
Battleforce Contents: $128.13
Savings: $33.13
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Cadian Battleforce: $115
Catachan Battleforce: $115
Battleforce Contents: $151.75
Savings: $36.75
Review for Current Codex: Nitrokitty (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Necron Battleforce: $90
Battleforce Contents: $141.66
Savings: $51.66
Review for Current Codex: Nitrokitty (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Ork Battleforce: $100
Battleforce Contents: $132.25
Savings: $32.25
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Space Marine Battleforce: $110
Battleforce Contents: $153.25
Savings: $43.25
Review for Current Codex: (Polaria (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces))
Space Wolves Battleforce: $100
Battleforce Contents: $132.50
Savings: $32.50
Review for Current Codex: mynameisgrax (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Tau Battleforce: $110
Battleforce Contents: $143.25
Savings: $33.25
Review for Current Codex: Aun'Vre (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Tyranid Battleforce: $110
Battleforce Contents: $144.50
Savings: $34.50
Review for Current Codex: Heirodule (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
This is all up to date as of 8/17/11, should it prove helpful I will endeavor to update whenever GW introduces a new Battleforce/Army Deal or raises price
Space Marines
Tier 3
10 Tactical Marines USD $40
1 Space Marine Dreadnought USD $46.25
1 Space Marine Captain in Terminator Armor USD $33 (Based off BA captain cost)
Total: $119.25 USD, with savings of 34.25
Astra Militarum
Tier 3
1 Leman Russ $49.50
1 Heavy Weapon team $16.00
1 Commissar $16.00
10 Cadian shock troops $29.00
Total: $110.50 with savings of $25.00
Tyranids
Tier 2
1 Hive Tyrant $53.75
3 Tyranid Warriors $51.00
10 Gargoyles $29.00
Total: $133.75 with savings of $48.75
Space Wolves
Tier 3
3 Thunderwolf Calvary $54.50
10 Grey Hunters/Blood Claws $37.00
1 Wolf Lord $16.00 (Extra model usually converted from a grey hunter model. Estimated price based on HQ unit costs)
Savings: $107.50 with a savings of $22.5
Daemons of Khorne
Tier 3
1 Herald on Blood Throne $40.00
3 Bloodcrushers $50 (Retail the box comes with a total of 6 at $100)
10 Bloodletters $29
Total: $119 with savings of $34
Daemons of Nurgle
Tier 1
3 Plague Drones $60
1 Herald of Nurgle $25.00
3 Nurglings $25
10 Plague bearers $29.00
Total: $139 with a savings of $54
end quote
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as we can see, the savings were pretty much comparable (to be honest the saving on the sc boxes might be a bit better s, but their worth is inflated by the ridiculous price of the clampack HQ). And as I said before, if you buy multiple start collecting boxes, you get the same HQ numerous times, and most of the time, you don't need more than one. Personally, I think that it compensate for the ''worthless'' unit in the battleforce, but ymmv
It's also meaningful to take into account that some of the new Start Collecting kits (notably, the orks, Necron, Blood Angels and SM) have their value artificially inflated by the ridiculous price GW charge for new clampack charcter. Still, looking at the % of savings, it seems the new Start Collecting kits offers a greater discount on average
Grot 6 wrote: Does anyone know where the plans are located to make the old school limo?
I have plenty of the old school hybrids, a couple of boxes of IG, and some conversion stuff for Genestealers....
Would like to see the old school Deathwing story scenarios, as well.
There werent plans for scratchbuilding limos, were there? I remember the text-only WD article and this excellent, recent report by the Eldritch Epistle blog also showing the underside of the original limos:
That is exactly the information on what I was looking for. The added bonus is the add on of the old IG troopers as fodder. I have them as well...
Absolutely amazing!!!!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
streetsamurai wrote: Agreed. I like the old school focus of GW, but squats would be a disaster. What an uninteresting concept that was.
Not really. I have the old school RT books, and the concept fits in context to the original game. Mantic took the idea and ran with it, and even if it was a half step, it was at least in the right direction. IIRC, didn't Bob Olley have a few in the till for sale over in his neck of the woods? "Old School" was pretty much get your figures and use them from wherever.... That's what is drawing me back to 40K after a little Hiatus to get my some time to drink Bacardi and chase Bikinis. Now back and well rested, its time to get back to the serious side of collecting and digging up RT era figures.
I like the Old school focus as well, and I want to take it back a step and gather my stuff at reasonable prices, while at the same time try to catch the essence of the game. scratch build some stuff, paint and possibly play, depending on the reaction to the projects.
On another topic, can these Genestealers capture a titan/ knight? Are we going to see other races Hybrids within the cults?
Quarterdime wrote: GW has been keeping this release really tight. Here we are roughly 2 days away from the preorders going live and we have only seen what they've publicly released. Is it safe to say there have been no real leaks?
Yes. Their marketing department seems to have gone from "shaky leaked photos" to releasing more teaser stuff instead.
Indeed, it odd that we have the November White Dwarf cover and not the October one. That said there is still two weeks before the release of the October issue.
I am looking forward to seeing the new miniatures and if they are half as good as the ones in Deathwatch Overkill then we are in for a treat.
We get week one previews on Saturday and then the white dwarf will be out from Monday or Tuesday, so it will not be long until we see everything this release has to offer.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The Fyreslayers release was still set under the 'old' GW mentality. The releases since then have been cheaper. The Start Collecting boxes have a number of options which offer significantly increased savings as compared to the old battalion boxes, but more importantly they are better because they more or less only include units people would actually use, whereas the majority of battalion boxes had at least one unit that was bad enough few players used it. All-in-all having a Genestealer Cult release at all is an improvement and I think the placement of symbols on limited edition dice is a minor detail.
So, 40k Armies Thread, I guess that's not the least travelled part of the forum. Maybe.
I've seen a couple of threads asking about whether or not it was worth it to purchase an armies respective Battleforce. This being the case I decided to do a basic comparison of each Battleforce's cost compared to the cost of buying each set separately. In general the Battleforce generally gets you a little over a set for free making it a good buy in most situations, especially when starting out. Additionally, should GW bump the price of all the sets by $5 as they are wont to do, the Battleforce will save you an average of $15. In absolute terms the CSM, Necron, and SM Battleforces all represent exceptionally good purchases IMHO, and the Tau might depending on your preference for Kroot.
Blood Angels Battleforce: $100
Battleforce Contents: $136.25
Savings: $36.25
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Chaos Space Marine Battleforce: $110
Battleforce Contents: $153.08
Savings: $43.08
Review for Current Codex: AcasualDream (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Chaos Daemon Battleforce: $105
Battleforce Contents: $140.75
Savings: $35.75
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Dark Angels Ravenwing Battleforce: $105
Battle Force Contents: $164
Savings: $59
Review for Current Codex: sithjack (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Dark Eldar Battleforce: $95
Battleforce Contents: $125.75
Savings: $30.75
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Eldar Battleforce: $95
Battleforce Contents: $128.13
Savings: $33.13
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Cadian Battleforce: $115
Catachan Battleforce: $115
Battleforce Contents: $151.75
Savings: $36.75
Review for Current Codex: Nitrokitty (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Necron Battleforce: $90
Battleforce Contents: $141.66
Savings: $51.66
Review for Current Codex: Nitrokitty (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Ork Battleforce: $100
Battleforce Contents: $132.25
Savings: $32.25
Review for Current Codex: (Pending)
Space Marine Battleforce: $110
Battleforce Contents: $153.25
Savings: $43.25
Review for Current Codex: (Polaria (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces))
Space Wolves Battleforce: $100
Battleforce Contents: $132.50
Savings: $32.50
Review for Current Codex: mynameisgrax (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Tau Battleforce: $110
Battleforce Contents: $143.25
Savings: $33.25
Review for Current Codex: Aun'Vre (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
Tyranid Battleforce: $110
Battleforce Contents: $144.50
Savings: $34.50
Review for Current Codex: Heirodule (The Comparative Worth of Battleforces)
This is all up to date as of 8/17/11, should it prove helpful I will endeavor to update whenever GW introduces a new Battleforce/Army Deal or raises price
Space Marines
Tier 3
10 Tactical Marines USD $40
1 Space Marine Dreadnought USD $46.25
1 Space Marine Captain in Terminator Armor USD $33 (Based off BA captain cost)
Total: $119.25 USD, with savings of 34.25
Astra Militarum
Tier 3
1 Leman Russ $49.50
1 Heavy Weapon team $16.00
1 Commissar $16.00
10 Cadian shock troops $29.00
Total: $110.50 with savings of $25.00
Tyranids
Tier 2
1 Hive Tyrant $53.75
3 Tyranid Warriors $51.00
10 Gargoyles $29.00
Total: $133.75 with savings of $48.75
Space Wolves
Tier 3
3 Thunderwolf Calvary $54.50
10 Grey Hunters/Blood Claws $37.00
1 Wolf Lord $16.00 (Extra model usually converted from a grey hunter model. Estimated price based on HQ unit costs)
Savings: $107.50 with a savings of $22.5
Daemons of Khorne
Tier 3
1 Herald on Blood Throne $40.00
3 Bloodcrushers $50 (Retail the box comes with a total of 6 at $100)
10 Bloodletters $29
Total: $119 with savings of $34
Daemons of Nurgle
Tier 1
3 Plague Drones $60
1 Herald of Nurgle $25.00
3 Nurglings $25
10 Plague bearers $29.00
Total: $139 with a savings of $54
end quote
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as we can see, the savings were pretty much comparable (to be honest the saving on the sc boxes might be a bit better s, but their worth is inflated by the ridiculous price of the clampack HQ). And as I said before, if you buy multiple start collecting boxes, you get the same HQ numerous times, and most of the time, you don't need more than one. Personally, I think that it compensate for the ''worthless'' unit in the battleforce, but ymmv.
Anyway, it's time for some minis to leak cause we are getting dangerously off topic
Just to point out that you show that the new Start Collecting boxes are a better saving.
Average savings on the battalions: 73%
Average savings on Start Collecting: 68%
Also, on the Age of Sigmar side, newer boxes for troops have been going down since Roundtree took over. The cost of large 5 man infantry boxes were $55 to $57 during the Ends Times release, $50 for the new Ironjaws Brutes. Prices of new boxes are have remained flat or have gone down for the most part.
Somewhat back on topic, I suspect the recent plastic custodes leak might have been a GW trap to get one of their leakers. With him out of the picture, we may truly have to rely on GW for info. But on the bright side, they are actually showing stuff a couple weeks earlier for some things.
Just need to see one pic of one dude to set my hype in check. Seriously mining weapons and theme is just perfect for my renegades force but I just hope they dont look too tyranidy and can be made to look like mutants which is also perfect for me.
I was gonna just do a renegade army from Vraks book but if GC have loads of AM units I might just do the artillery and militia from Vraks and mining force from GC, damn I hope it looks good.
Looks like the transport vehicle from the teaser. If it's one of the "tools if the oppressors", hopefully that means imperial guard get that transport too. That'd make me a happy Bull0
I would approve of Demiurg, but not squats. Squats are the one race I would raise my eyebrow at big time. Sisters of Battle are cooler than squats and I think the SOB are the most bland faction in the game by a light year. Both in terms of fluff, rules, and model design. Demiurg would finally see the Tau have a cool battle brother to throw down with.
Gamgee wrote: Don't forget a totally cool Kroot Mercenaries with a Predator (movie)theme to it and not the lame space chicken theme. They can evolve to look different. Just say they evolved already and give the Kroot a cooler look than space chickens.
If Squats and Sisters come out before Kroot Mercenaries/Hunters/New Xenos faction ima be pissed.
I'll be equally pissed if the almighty Tau ie Kroots get yet more stuff rather than actually giving the Sisters new models and a updated Codex.
Back on topic rather than which other Codex needs stuff: A Genestealer Cult based 40k or Kill team campaign pack with rules for Arbites and the like would be very interesting and with lots of potential for varied scenarios.
Why? Space Marines get stuff all the time. Eldar get stuff all the time. If a race is becoming popular support it I say. The SOB are so low priority since the IoM is absolutely bloated with factions and support.
Look at the poor Necrons. Cool rules but they haven't had a model release in ages.
I don't personally like the GSC, but I say support it anyways! Good to see more Xenos and less IoM bloat.
Gamgee wrote: Why? Space Marines get stuff all the time. Eldar get stuff all the time. If a race is becoming popular support it I say. The SOB are so low priority since the IoM is absolutely bloated with factions and support.
Look at the poor Necrons. Cool rules but they haven't had a model release in ages.
I don't personally like the GSC, but I say support it anyways! Good to see more Xenos and less IoM bloat.
Tau get stuff all the time - not just from GW but from FW - were you not get excited at the all the new super suits?
Why is the IOM so bloated - manly due to the constant Marine releases. So Space Marines get all the stuff so the Sisters should get SFA? Awesome.
If you don't realise anything for it how exactly does it become popular - its a self fulfilling prophecy.
I am more than happy to see GSC - its looks ace - and hence why I bought the recent boxed set.
Maybe Alan Merrett had a point, because I'm going to play Devil's advocate here and say I do not like this idea of a Genestealer Cult.
First and foremost, I will say the cult models we have to date are wonderful models, and I have no doubt that these new models will be equally as good, none the less, for me, the fluff is important here, and the fluff doesn't add up IMO.
I'm a huge Space Hulk fan, and for me, the terror of genestealers has always been those dark, narrow corridors, and that heart in mouth feeling when a genestealer is rushing towards your terminator, and then your storm bolter jams....
I like the genestealer models, and have always seen them as shock troops to tear apart power or terminator armour, but I never saw them as infiltrators (the lictor is far better for that IMO) or even as cultists...
For me, the dark heart of the Imperium, the enemy within, has always been Chaos cultists, and these are far more terrifying than any alien cult, because these humans, are no different to you or I, fluff wise...
If they could fall, so could we...
To my mind, it seems nonsensical to have two different cults like this in the background, because it dilutes the impact like both...
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Maybe Alan Merrett had a point, because I'm going to play Devil's advocate here and say I do not like this idea of a Genestealer Cult.
First and foremost, I will say the cult models we have to date are wonderful models, and I have no doubt that these new models will be equally as good, none the less, for me, the fluff is important here, and the fluff doesn't add up IMO.
I'm a huge Space Hulk fan, and for me, the terror of genestealers has always been those dark, narrow corridors, and that heart in mouth feeling when a genestealer is rushing towards your terminator, and then your storm bolter jams....
I like the genestealer models, and have always seen them as shock troops to tear apart power or terminator armour, but I never saw them as infiltrators (the lictor is far better for that IMO) or even as cultists...
For me, the dark heart of the Imperium, the enemy within, has always been Chaos cultists, and these are far more terrifying than any alien cult, because these humans, are no different to you or I, fluff wise...
If they could fall, so could we...
To my mind, it seems nonsensical to have two different cults like this in the background, because it dilutes the impact like both...
So yeah, great models, but gak fluff.
Just to put it one way, originally genestealer cults were a separate faction to tyranids... and this was even before space hulk was released. Back then there was even a possibility of the cults being chaos worshippers! They were still fairly similar xenomorph from aliens though.
Then GW did their copy pop culture thing (before they tried to claim all their idea's were origional) and make them inhabit space hulks as a way for genestealers to get planet side in the first places. So taking even more from the alien franchise, even making the models look slightly more xenomorph like! After this GW then decided after space hulk to make them the scouting, infiltration and covert ops aspect of tyranids. This is even backed up and supported fluff wise seeing genestealer cults were a fairly common occurance within the imperium long before the tyranids showed up and it took a while for the imperium to realise the link between the two.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Maybe Alan Merrett had a point, because I'm going to play Devil's advocate here and say I do not like this idea of a Genestealer Cult.
First and foremost, I will say the cult models we have to date are wonderful models, and I have no doubt that these new models will be equally as good, none the less, for me, the fluff is important here, and the fluff doesn't add up IMO.
I'm a huge Space Hulk fan, and for me, the terror of genestealers has always been those dark, narrow corridors, and that heart in mouth feeling when a genestealer is rushing towards your terminator, and then your storm bolter jams....
I like the genestealer models, and have always seen them as shock troops to tear apart power or terminator armour, but I never saw them as infiltrators (the lictor is far better for that IMO) or even as cultists...
For me, the dark heart of the Imperium, the enemy within, has always been Chaos cultists, and these are far more terrifying than any alien cult, because these humans, are no different to you or I, fluff wise...
If they could fall, so could we...
To my mind, it seems nonsensical to have two different cults like this in the background, because it dilutes the impact like both...
So yeah, great models, but gak fluff.
Just to put it one way, originally genestealer cults were a separate faction to tyranids... and this was even before space hulk was released. Back then there was even a possibility of the cults being chaos worshippers! They were still fairly similar xenomorph from aliens though.
Then GW did their copy pop culture thing (before they tried to claim all their idea's were origional) and make them inhabit space hulks as a way for genestealers to get planet side in the first places. So taking even more from the alien franchise, even making the models look slightly more xenomorph like! After this GW then decided after space hulk to make them the scouting, infiltration and covert ops aspect of tyranids. This is even backed up and supported fluff wise seeing genestealer cults were a fairly common occurance within the imperium long before the tyranids showed up and it took a while for the imperium to realise the link between the two.
Good point.
Another problem I have with Genestealers, as much as I like them, is the role of Lictors.
Why do you need Genestealers when Lictors can do the whole assassination - demoralize - the - enemy - thing, just as well?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Maybe Alan Merrett had a point, because I'm going to play Devil's advocate here and say I do not like this idea of a Genestealer Cult.
First and foremost, I will say the cult models we have to date are wonderful models, and I have no doubt that these new models will be equally as good, none the less, for me, the fluff is important here, and the fluff doesn't add up IMO.
I'm a huge Space Hulk fan, and for me, the terror of genestealers has always been those dark, narrow corridors, and that heart in mouth feeling when a genestealer is rushing towards your terminator, and then your storm bolter jams....
I like the genestealer models, and have always seen them as shock troops to tear apart power or terminator armour, but I never saw them as infiltrators (the lictor is far better for that IMO) or even as cultists...
For me, the dark heart of the Imperium, the enemy within, has always been Chaos cultists, and these are far more terrifying than any alien cult, because these humans, are no different to you or I, fluff wise...
If they could fall, so could we...
To my mind, it seems nonsensical to have two different cults like this in the background, because it dilutes the impact like both...
So yeah, great models, but gak fluff.
Just to put it one way, originally genestealer cults were a separate faction to tyranids... and this was even before space hulk was released. Back then there was even a possibility of the cults being chaos worshippers! They were still fairly similar xenomorph from aliens though.
Then GW did their copy pop culture thing (before they tried to claim all their idea's were origional) and make them inhabit space hulks as a way for genestealers to get planet side in the first places. So taking even more from the alien franchise, even making the models look slightly more xenomorph like! After this GW then decided after space hulk to make them the scouting, infiltration and covert ops aspect of tyranids. This is even backed up and supported fluff wise seeing genestealer cults were a fairly common occurance within the imperium long before the tyranids showed up and it took a while for the imperium to realise the link between the two.
Good point.
Another problem I have with Genestealers, as much as I like them, is the role of Lictors.
Why do you need Genestealers when Lictors can do the whole assassination - demoralize - the - enemy - thing, just as well?
Bit of a contradiction in my book...
Genestealers carry tyranid DNA and are primarily used to start these cults. They also happen to be skilled at melee therefore making them shock troops. Lictors are camouflaged and super strong, so their primary purpose is to be assassins.
tetrisphreak wrote: The background image appears to be a haruspex, or something else low to the ground with crushing claws. Any photo shoppers want to enhance?
Another problem I have with Genestealers, as much as I like them, is the role of Lictors.
Why do you need Genestealers when Lictors can do the whole assassination - demoralize - the - enemy - thing, just as well?
Bit of a contradiction in my book...
Lictors are solitary hunters. They are more like alien Rambo. They are useful for shortening a war by taking out important targets behind enemy lines and sowing fear and doubt amongst the enemy troops.
In contrast, Genestealer Cults are the long-advance vanguard. They work slowly, over generations, to infiltrate, undermine and destabilize a world before the Hive Fleet arrives. If a Genestealer Cult is properly successful, the target planet can throw up no more than a token resistance before the entire place is overthrown and becomes nothing more than a free buffet.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Maybe Alan Merrett had a point, because I'm going to play Devil's advocate here and say I do not like this idea of a Genestealer Cult.
First and foremost, I will say the cult models we have to date are wonderful models, and I have no doubt that these new models will be equally as good, none the less, for me, the fluff is important here, and the fluff doesn't add up IMO.
...
For me, the dark heart of the Imperium, the enemy within, has always been Chaos cultists, and these are far more terrifying than any alien cult, because these humans, are no different to you or I, fluff wise...
If they could fall, so could we...
To my mind, it seems nonsensical to have two different cults like this in the background, because it dilutes the impact like both...
So yeah, great models, but gak fluff.
I am the opposite. I am very tired of the trope that anything malignant within the imperium has to be tied to Chaos. The imperium is a large and diverse place after all. I love the fluff of the shadow dimensions and the beings within in the Dark Eldar codex for example. I played a Cult "army" in 2nd/3rd, and I got a very different feel of the threat from GSC and Chaos, and I loved it. Hopefully they will manage to distinguish them enough from each other.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Maybe Alan Merrett had a point, because I'm going to play Devil's advocate here and say I do not like this idea of a Genestealer Cult.
First and foremost, I will say the cult models we have to date are wonderful models, and I have no doubt that these new models will be equally as good, none the less, for me, the fluff is important here, and the fluff doesn't add up IMO.
...
For me, the dark heart of the Imperium, the enemy within, has always been Chaos cultists, and these are far more terrifying than any alien cult, because these humans, are no different to you or I, fluff wise...
If they could fall, so could we...
To my mind, it seems nonsensical to have two different cults like this in the background, because it dilutes the impact like both...
So yeah, great models, but gak fluff.
I am the opposite. I am very tired of the trope that anything malignant within the imperium has to be tied to Chaos. The imperium is a large and diverse place after all. I love the fluff of the shadow dimensions and the beings within in the Dark Eldar codex for example. I played a Cult "army" in 2nd/3rd, and I got a very different feel of the threat from GSC and Chaos, and I loved it. Hopefully they will manage to distinguish them enough from each other.
So you're tired of the core fluff of the entire system of 40k? That's gotta be tough then since chaos being at the heart of the Imperium IS what the game is all about :p
lord_blackfang wrote: I expect we'll all goo our pants when we see the truck... and then buy Mantic Mules for 1/3 the cost instead.
Why, Mantics models are terrible?
That's going a little hyperbolic, don't you think?
For an open-topped jeep/humvee-type vehicle, the Mule looks decent - though I'd want to wait until it is on general release before picking one up, given I wasn't involved int he Warpath KS.
So you're tired of the core fluff of the entire system of 40k? That's gotta be tough then since chaos being at the heart of the Imperium IS what the game is all about :p
Wrong, if the game was all about that then the entire game would be a RPG in which Inquisitors hunt Chaos Cultists. In fact, I'm pretty sure that game already exist, but its called Dark Heresy IIRC.
There's a whole other section of the site for which bits of the fluff do and don't fit your head-canon.
What's coming out is the new fluff and it looks simultaneously reverential AND introducing new units and armaments.
Discuss the Lashwhip and Bonesword on that Acolyte for sure (like, WTF? CRAY CRAY) but discussing whether Cults should be infiltrated into Imperial society is futile, as it has been thus since the first Hybrid models came out. You're 20+ yrs too late to protest that bit! It's also OFF TOPIC.
So about that Lashwhip and Bonesword, and that Cutting Saw... these kits could have quite the array of bits in them! It's rather exciting. And is the vehicle a dual-build? Seems like it may well be?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Maybe Alan Merrett had a point, because I'm going to play Devil's advocate here and say I do not like this idea of a Genestealer Cult.
First and foremost, I will say the cult models we have to date are wonderful models, and I have no doubt that these new models will be equally as good, none the less, for me, the fluff is important here, and the fluff doesn't add up IMO.
I'm a huge Space Hulk fan, and for me, the terror of genestealers has always been those dark, narrow corridors, and that heart in mouth feeling when a genestealer is rushing towards your terminator, and then your storm bolter jams....
I like the genestealer models, and have always seen them as shock troops to tear apart power or terminator armour, but I never saw them as infiltrators (the lictor is far better for that IMO) or even as cultists...
For me, the dark heart of the Imperium, the enemy within, has always been Chaos cultists, and these are far more terrifying than any alien cult, because these humans, are no different to you or I, fluff wise...
If they could fall, so could we...
To my mind, it seems nonsensical to have two different cults like this in the background, because it dilutes the impact like both...
So yeah, great models, but gak fluff.
Wait, whut?
First, as Baldeagle points out, the Tyranids appropriated the Genestealers, not the other way around - they were infiltrators seeding cults before they were shock troops shredding Terminators. Regardless though, why are the two mutually exclusive? The cults are a side-effect of one stage of their lifecycle, the Terminator-shredding is part of a different part - the fact they're more than just a generic OpFor for Space Marines or mindless drones for the Hive Mind makes them more intriguing, not less.
Second, why on earth would it be nonsensical to have more than one non-Imperial cult in the background? That's like saying there's no point in having more than one Chaos God, or more than one alien race, or more than one Guard regiment - GSCults are as different in form and purpose from Chaos cults as Chaos cults are from Imperial religion. Chaos cults are the Enemy Within, our own flaws consuming us, our own discord undermining us, the manifestation of the corruption that was already within us. Genestealer cults are the Enemy Without, an insidious external assault, our fear of the Other made manifest, a foe that corrupts even the pure and the righteous.
Third, if there aren't any truly insidious alien threats, you also just made the Ordo Xenos a hell of a lot more boring, since they have less to do, and fewer reasons to be in conflict with other Inquisitors.
Nah man, we need more cults, xenos & otherwise, not less.
Yodhrin wrote: Third, if there aren't any truly insidious alien threats, you also just made the Ordo Xenos a hell of a lot more boring, since they have less to do, and fewer reasons to be in conflict with other Inquisitors.
Their Cup Of Tea And A Sit Down Strike Force always has a backlog of applicants, for some reason...
Thanks to all those who replied to my original post, and I'll just do a general response to cover most of the points.
I like Tyranids, and I like the models, especially the Deathwatch cultists, so this is not a anti-Tyranid rant, as the 40k galaxy is big enough for an alien race.
For me, the endearing appeal of the 40k background is a story theme that has existed in mankind since our ancestors walked the Earth - the struggle in every heart between good and evil.
If you're fan of Milton's Paradise Lost, which I am, then you'll instantly recognize the influence it had on the Horus Heresy, and the war in Heaven between God (The Emperor) and Lucifer (Horus)
This is not news to anybody, but for me, the black heart, the malignant influence of the Chaos Cults is the long continuation of that.
That's why I don't like Chaos Cults being elbowed out by Genestealer cults...
GW, as we know, has already borrowed heavily from pop and sci-fi culture, and there's nothing wrong that,
but IMO, the 40k fluff is beginning too feel to 'crowded; with so much stuff going on.
Will probably start a thread on this idea sometime
ZebioLizard2 wrote: ..But genestealer cults have existed since rogue trader, they've been there since the beginning and just been in the background mostly.
Lurking unseen, just below the surface, like the good little cultists they are. Waiting, always waiting, for the perfect moment to reveal themselves.
I’m in the camp thinking there is plenty of space for all. 40k is a big place, and the Imperium is beset by many foes, within and without.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: For me, the endearing appeal of the 40k background is a story theme that has existed in mankind since our ancestors walked the Earth - the struggle in every heart between good and evil.
If you're fan of Milton's Paradise Lost, which I am, then you'll instantly recognize the influence it had on the Horus Heresy, and the war in Heaven between God (The Emperor) and Lucifer (Horus)
The important fundamental difference with Genestealer Cults is that they have nothing to do with the underlined.
Despite the name, Genestealer Cults aren't truly about worship or religion. The corruption involved isn't of one's morals -- it's a genetic level. The implantation process not only causes a species to bear hybrid children, it also reprograms their brains. The growing 'family' that's created takes on the appearance of a religion or cult, but that really has nothing to do with it. What joins them is genetic material, not shared beliefs.
When you boil both entities down, Chaos cults are a kind of devil worship horror archetype, while Genestealer cults relate to a 'body snatchers' sci-fi archetype.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Thanks to all those who replied to my original post, and I'll just do a general response to cover most of the points.
I like Tyranids, and I like the models, especially the Deathwatch cultists, so this is not a anti-Tyranid rant, as the 40k galaxy is big enough for an alien race.
For me, the endearing appeal of the 40k background is a story theme that has existed in mankind since our ancestors walked the Earth - the struggle in every heart between good and evil.
If you're fan of Milton's Paradise Lost, which I am, then you'll instantly recognize the influence it had on the Horus Heresy, and the war in Heaven between God (The Emperor) and Lucifer (Horus)
This is not news to anybody, but for me, the black heart, the malignant influence of the Chaos Cults is the long continuation of that.
That's why I don't like Chaos Cults being elbowed out by Genestealer cults...
GW, as we know, has already borrowed heavily from pop and sci-fi culture, and there's nothing wrong that,
but IMO, the 40k fluff is beginning too feel to 'crowded; with so much stuff going on.
Will probably start a thread on this idea sometime
That's awesome.
My opinion is that the dualistic storyline between one-dimensional, puffed up "good guys" and one-dimensional, slavering "bad guys" is the single least interesting aspect of the fluff. To me, the single most telling bit of this aspect of fluff came from the original Dawn of War game. If you enter the game as the Space Marines, one of their common quotes when clicked on is "Cleanse, purge, kill!" and if you choose the chaos marines, they instead say (in similar inflection) "Maim, burn, kill!"
One is (in this aspect of the story, at least) depicted as white, and shiny, and brave, and everything that is good, and one is depicted as black, pointy, and cartoonishly evil.
And then there are fluff elements brought in by the IoM's interaction with the various Xenos elements. Barring the tyranids, every alien race as well as the humans are morally complex and interesting. Genestealer cults, even if they don't bring that complexity to the still one-note tyranids, at least they allow them to provide a backdrop for an actually interesting story. A chaos cult of khorne goes crazy because there's a massively powerful god of crazy bloodlust. They'll do blood things with skulls and violence because of the crazy god. A genestealer cult (at least partially) can have more complex motives. With GW's mining motif, they're showing a totally justified, and inevitably doomed, rebellion against an oppressive and monstrous government by the lower class.
But you know what the most important part of my opinion on the matter is?
It doesn't invalidate yours. You can enjoy the dualistic aspects of the story, and amazingly, the game takes place in an entire galaxy with LOTS of room in it. The game doesn't have to have just one thing.
The way I see it, there is plenty of room in the 40K Universe for everything that is going on. Basically, it is a huge, multi-layered canvas that anyone can pick a spot on and say "that's my kind of art". Then we can all play games together in that shared space and have lots of fun with whatever aspects appeal most to us.
Is it a change that the cults know something is coming?
In the old background the cults were unaware about the fleets coming until they arrived and took over as far as I remember, but now they are referring to the coming fleets as gods
Vorian wrote: Is it a change that the cults know something is coming?
In the old background the cults were unaware about the fleets coming until they arrived and took over as far as I remember, but now they are referring to the coming fleets as gods
In the old background they weren't linked to the tyranids at all.... which was explained by the modern fluff as the imperium not knowing they were linked.
I think most the fluff since the link was established stated that they became directly under the control of the tyranid hive mind via a psychic link once the hive fleet became so close. Prior to that it wasn't clarified whether their were motivated simply by genetic behaviour adaption, religion or social causes. So for example some simple went mental, some would raise up by some created religion and others would rise up to address social inequalities. I think it kinda makes sense that it would be dependent on the situation, for example in a relativley social equal world a religious uprising would make more sense, but when it comes to the average hive, a social cause makes more sense seeing the imperiums religious intolerance.
Either way they have always in some way, shape or form been under the psychic control of the patriarch. That said I was always under the impression that the religious/social reasons behind the cults was more a recruiting tool late in the cults lifespan as it gets larger to encourage more recruits to volunteer before indoctrination. The initial cultists always retreat underground as their mutations are far too obvious.
Lash whip and bonesword are tyranid weapons. I though they were created by the tyranids, in their hives, out of bio stuff. So how did the cultists get their (too numerous) hands on them?
They have rending claws because they're part of their bodies. And they use human weapons (lasguns, mining laser, and now what seems to be circular saws and other mining-related equipment). This all made sense to me. The bonesword and lash whip, not so much.
Is there something I'm completely missing fluff wise?
fresus wrote: Lash whip and bonesword are tyranid weapons. I though they were created by the tyranids, in their hives, out of bio stuff. So how did the cultists get their (too numerous) hands on them?
They have rending claws because they're part of their bodies. And they use human weapons (lasguns, mining laser, and now what seems to be circular saws and other mining-related equipment). This all made sense to me. The bonesword and lash whip, not so much.
Is there something I'm completely missing fluff wise?
I was under the impression bioweapons were grown at the same time as the host organism. So it would make sense for the Patriarch to *grow them* onto genestealers of various generations if the need arose.
If the Genestealers are capable of spawning other Tyranid creatures, one wonders if it isn't possible for a cult to evolve into an actual Hive Fleet if there isn't any Hive Fleet "nearby".
Tyran wrote: If the Genestealers are capable of spawning other Tyranid creatures, one wonders if it isn't possible for a cult to evolve into an actual Hive Fleet if there isn't any Hive Fleet "nearby".
They can't spawn other creatures, albeit some genestealers are directly spawned by hive fleets. I dunno it was just an idea on how it could be possible.
Tyran wrote: If the Genestealers are capable of spawning other Tyranid creatures, one wonders if it isn't possible for a cult to evolve into an actual Hive Fleet if there isn't any Hive Fleet "nearby".
They can't spawn other creatures, albeit some genestealers are directly spawned by hive fleets. I dunno it was just an idea on how it could be possible.
Tyranid bio-weapons are Tyranid creatures, if you can spawn them then you in theory can spawn other Tyranid creatures.
Tyran wrote: If the Genestealers are capable of spawning other Tyranid creatures, one wonders if it isn't possible for a cult to evolve into an actual Hive Fleet if there isn't any Hive Fleet "nearby".
They can't spawn other creatures, albeit some genestealers are directly spawned by hive fleets. I dunno it was just an idea on how it could be possible.
Tyranid bio-weapons are Tyranid creatures, if you can spawn them then you in theory can spawn other Tyranid creatures.
Yeah which I suppose shot that one down. Although bio-weapons range from symbiotic organs to fully formed symbiotic creatures with their own limited consciousness.
Tyran wrote: If the Genestealers are capable of spawning other Tyranid creatures, one wonders if it isn't possible for a cult to evolve into an actual Hive Fleet if there isn't any Hive Fleet "nearby".
They can't spawn other creatures, albeit some genestealers are directly spawned by hive fleets. I dunno it was just an idea on how it could be possible.
Tyranid bio-weapons are Tyranid creatures, if you can spawn them then you in theory can spawn other Tyranid creatures.
then the real question is, do they know how the spawn other tyranid creatures
Vorian wrote: Is it a change that the cults know something is coming?
In the old background the cults were unaware about the fleets coming until they arrived and took over as far as I remember, but now they are referring to the coming fleets as gods
Depends on which "old background" you're referring to.
In the 1st Edition fluff, the Tyranids and Genestealers had nothing to do with eachother, but they were slowly intermixed. By the time the 2nd Edition Tyranid Codex was released,they were fully intermeshed, and the cultists knew the Tyranids were their gods.
Gods that showed up and ate the cultists indiscriminately along with the rest of the planet's defenders, lol. Which is why I've argued it's silly to let Cult ally with Tyranids.
But no, to answer your question, the leaked fluff referring to the Tyranids as gods isn't new. That's been around for over 20 years.
Being consumed by the hive fleet is their "ascention".
All biological matter on a conquored planet is consumed by the fleet, including the Tyranid invasion force. It is then repurposed to spawn whatever the fleet needs next time.
I don't see BB as being a silly idea. At that point the cult is just another military asset for the fleet.
I guess being a genestealer hybrid lets you give birth to weapon organisms now.
With genestealer cults weapons being both Tyranid and Astra Militarum, looks like we will finally get a canonical explanation for a C.S Goto multilaser carnifex
Either way they have always in some way, shape or form been under the psychic control of the patriarch. That said I was always under the impression that the religious/social reasons behind the cults was more a recruiting tool late in the cults lifespan as it gets larger to encourage more recruits to volunteer before indoctrination. The initial cultists always retreat underground as their mutations are far too obvious.
Well, that kinda makes sense. I could also imagine a bunch of underhivers wanting to become members despite knowing that there's something weird about it, just to gain some power. And of course if they are recruiting from underhive and have a large amount of affiliated gangs, the low-level members don't even have to know anything, just that they take orders from some unknown bigger gang and those who are loyal will be rewarded.
I don't know if there's really that much difference between a GSC and some random Chaos cult that has been sipping daemon blood and received a few blessings - growing a few extra appendages is pretty standard, right? - so I suppose you could use the codex for something like that as well.
But that's the thing. The Tyranid creatures aren't supposed to recognize the Cult as allies. They just consume them right along with everyone else. So sure, the Cult allies with the Tyranids. Then the Tyranids just eat them anyway. How do you represent that on the tabletop?
Making them allies (at any level) ruins the entire thematic concept of the Cult. It's the grimdark tragic downfall. The Cult puts in so much work to subvert the planet's human authority and welcome their saviors... and their reward is to be completely disregarded and consumed as if they were nobody special.
I think people don't really put much consideration into the story aspect of it. The ultimate fate of the Genestealer Cult is supposed to be tragic and senseless. The Patriarch, the magi, and the rest of the Cult's leadership have led their followers not to salvation and ascension, but to ruin and oblivion. You're taking their sermonic propaganda and interpreting it at face value. Ascension is an imaginary story told by the leaders of the cult. It's not a real thing. The Cult believes it will ascend. The Heaven's Gate guys believed they'd ascend too. The Hive Fleet isn't part of this ascension nonsense. It's an alien intelligence with no concept of the human ways of the Cult.
Vorian wrote: Gods that showed up and ate the cultists indiscriminately along with the rest of the planet's defenders, lol. Which is why I've argued it's silly to let Cult ally with Tyranids.
To counter that and without naming any religious beliefs, there are a lot of people even in todays age let alone in the past history of human kind that will GLADLY die for their god. So not it's not sill to let Cult ally with Tyranids at all.
For a lot of people dying for your god or dying at the feet of your god means you will be with them in "what ever world/afterlife" you believe in.
As to Tyranids will absorb them right away if false in my eyes. Tyrainds wouldn't be that stupid to devourer their followers just because they show up. Tyranids don't devourer anything until the battle is over so yes the Genestealer Cult SHOULD be battle brothers with Tyranids.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: But that's the thing. The Tyranid creatures aren't supposed to recognize the Cult as allies. They just consume them right along with everyone else. So sure, the Cult allies with the Tyranids. Then the Tyranids just eat them anyway. How do you represent that on the tabletop?
Making them allies (at any level) ruins the entire thematic concept of the Cult. It's the grimdark tragic downfall. The Cult puts in so much work to subvert the planet's human authority and welcome their saviors... and their reward is to be completely disregarded and consumed as if they were nobody special.
I think people don't really put much consideration into the story aspect of it. The ultimate fate of the Genestealer Cult is supposed to be tragic and senseless. The Patriarch, the magi, and the rest of the Cult's leadership have led their followers not to salvation and ascension, but to ruin and oblivion. You're taking their sermonic propaganda and interpreting it at face value. Ascension is an imaginary story told by the leaders of the cult. It's not a real thing. The Cult believes it will ascend. The Heaven's Gate guys believed they'd ascend too. The Hive Fleet isn't part of this ascension nonsense. It's an alien intelligence with no concept of the human ways of the Cult.
Great post, and I totally agree. Once a world has had it's defenses sufficiently compromised by a cult, a Hive Fleet would be flooding it with billions of organisms. On this scale the actions of a few thousand cultists are no longer a consideration for the Hive Mind. In fact a larger priority for it at this point would be to get some cultists on as many evacuation transports as possible to spread further infestations. Putting them on a frontline alongside monstrous creatures, bio-titans and millions of guants is like adding a couple of drops of water to a tidal wave.
The main motivation behind players wanting BB rules is to find powergamey combos like Invisible Dimachaerons or tanks full of Warriors. Personally I'm more than happy with AoC, which provides plenty of options without crazy fluff-breaking situations.
I think that tyranids, when they are under synapse control would not attack the cult as long as long as the hive mind deem them useful. However, they will gladly eat them once their utility is past its peremption date. THe fact that the cultist will get eaten doesn't have to be represented in the tabletop game, since we can assume that it occurs after the battle. Also, Tyranids themselves are consumed by the hive fleet once the planets is conquered. But there's no rule to represent that in the game.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: But that's the thing. The Tyranid creatures aren't supposed to recognize the Cult as allies. They just consume them right along with everyone else. So sure, the Cult allies with the Tyranids. Then the Tyranids just eat them anyway. How do you represent that on the tabletop?
Making them allies (at any level) ruins the entire thematic concept of the Cult. It's the grimdark tragic downfall. The Cult puts in so much work to subvert the planet's human authority and welcome their saviors... and their reward is to be completely disregarded and consumed as if they were nobody special.
I think people don't really put much consideration into the story aspect of it. The ultimate fate of the Genestealer Cult is supposed to be tragic and senseless. The Patriarch, the magi, and the rest of the Cult's leadership have led their followers not to salvation and ascension, but to ruin and oblivion. You're taking their sermonic propaganda and interpreting it at face value. Ascension is an imaginary story told by the leaders of the cult. It's not a real thing. The Cult believes it will ascend. The Heaven's Gate guys believed they'd ascend too. The Hive Fleet isn't part of this ascension nonsense. It's an alien intelligence with no concept of the human ways of the Cult.
Great post, and I totally agree. Once a world has had it's defenses sufficiently compromised by a cult, a Hive Fleet would be flooding it with billions of organisms. On this scale the actions of a few thousand cultists are no longer a consideration for the Hive Mind. In fact a larger priority for it at this point would be to get some cultists on as many evacuation transports as possible to spread further infestations. Putting them on a frontline alongside monstrous creatures, bio-titans and millions of guants is like adding a couple of drops of water to a tidal wave.
The main motivation behind players wanting BB rules is to find powergamey combos like Invisible Dimachaerons or tanks full of Warriors. Personally I'm more than happy with AoC, which provides plenty of options without crazy fluff-breaking situations.
Agree with the transports but using the 2nd best mcdonalds available that's a fw unit with experimental rules an example of a broken list is a little far fetched.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: But that's the thing. The Tyranid creatures aren't supposed to recognize the Cult as allies. They just consume them right along with everyone else. So sure, the Cult allies with the Tyranids. Then the Tyranids just eat them anyway. How do you represent that on the tabletop?
Making them allies (at any level) ruins the entire thematic concept of the Cult. It's the grimdark tragic downfall. The Cult puts in so much work to subvert the planet's human authority and welcome their saviors... and their reward is to be completely disregarded and consumed as if they were nobody special.
I think people don't really put much consideration into the story aspect of it. The ultimate fate of the Genestealer Cult is supposed to be tragic and senseless. The Patriarch, the magi, and the rest of the Cult's leadership have led their followers not to salvation and ascension, but to ruin and oblivion. You're taking their sermonic propaganda and interpreting it at face value. Ascension is an imaginary story told by the leaders of the cult. It's not a real thing. The Cult believes it will ascend. The Heaven's Gate guys believed they'd ascend too. The Hive Fleet isn't part of this ascension nonsense. It's an alien intelligence with no concept of the human ways of the Cult.
Totally disagree with that one. Especially seeing those who actually have genestealer DNA become directly under control of the Synapse hive mind. By comparison their human parents and affiliates (aka affiliate gangs etc) wouldn't be. So while those in the background would most likely be nommed straight away, the Genestealer Cultists on the tabletop would not be absorbed any sooner than a normal genestealer or other synapse or non synapse creature (seeing some tyranids operate independently anyway).
They may be changing the fluff, but it was always hinted that Cultists were directly under the control of the Hive Mind once the Hive Fleet was within a certain range. Only a few purestrain genestealers tend to flee the hive fleets advance, long before they actually make planetfall. As such it totally makes sense for them to be full allies, it make more sense than some IOM factions who will open fire on each other quite openly.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: But that's the thing. The Tyranid creatures aren't supposed to recognize the Cult as allies. They just consume them right along with everyone else. So sure, the Cult allies with the Tyranids. Then the Tyranids just eat them anyway. How do you represent that on the tabletop?
Making them allies (at any level) ruins the entire thematic concept of the Cult. It's the grimdark tragic downfall. The Cult puts in so much work to subvert the planet's human authority and welcome their saviors... and their reward is to be completely disregarded and consumed as if they were nobody special.
I think people don't really put much consideration into the story aspect of it. The ultimate fate of the Genestealer Cult is supposed to be tragic and senseless. The Patriarch, the magi, and the rest of the Cult's leadership have led their followers not to salvation and ascension, but to ruin and oblivion. You're taking their sermonic propaganda and interpreting it at face value. Ascension is an imaginary story told by the leaders of the cult. It's not a real thing. The Cult believes it will ascend. The Heaven's Gate guys believed they'd ascend too. The Hive Fleet isn't part of this ascension nonsense. It's an alien intelligence with no concept of the human ways of the Cult.
Great post, and I totally agree. Once a world has had it's defenses sufficiently compromised by a cult, a Hive Fleet would be flooding it with billions of organisms. On this scale the actions of a few thousand cultists are no longer a consideration for the Hive Mind. In fact a larger priority for it at this point would be to get some cultists on as many evacuation transports as possible to spread further infestations. Putting them on a frontline alongside monstrous creatures, bio-titans and millions of guants is like adding a couple of drops of water to a tidal wave.
The main motivation behind players wanting BB rules is to find powergamey combos like Invisible Dimachaerons or tanks full of Warriors. Personally I'm more than happy with AoC, which provides plenty of options without crazy fluff-breaking situations.
Well part of my response here is mentioned after the first quote. The cult has many uses and results. Sometimes it simply creates political upheaval so there is no united front to fight back against the main invasion, sometimes it results in a civil war, sometimes it results in regime change or even more rarely a total planets population being converted to the cult!
This whole cults acting purely on *mistaken religious belief* thing seems to be new to the new teasers. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the fluff, just as an excuse to deny Tyranids full allies, but the previous fluff doesn't support this view at all.
I am also of the opinion that the later fluff (2nd Ed onwards) is fine and will most likely be what the new Codex is going to use.
Allies of Convenience, though, does not mean they aren't fighting side by side It means they cannot cast psychic buffs at each other, join units and so on. They do join forces in a battle though.
It was mentioned earlier on this or the previous page that Tyranids and GSC had been linked fluffwise in 2nd Edition (Ruleset in '93, Codex: Tyranids in '95). This was a lot earlier. Ca. 1990, in Advanced Space Crusade they were already fully connected.
The first 40k Tyranid Army list was the one in White Dwarf 145 (1st Edition) and both were fighting side-by-side
Some page scans from the list:
We should wait for the Codex with fluff discussions like these. Answers will be in it for sure
The main motivation behind players wanting BB rules is to find powergamey combos
Without a doubt. I understand that for the majority of the players, consideration of things like "theme" and "story" is the boring stuff that gets in the way of finding the rules and painting guides.
But as somebody whose first Genestealer Cult army saw the table over 20 years ago, the tragic futility of the Cult's existence is part of its charm. The idea of the victorious Genestealer Cult striding out to meet their Tyranid saviors, and getting swept under by the tide of teeth and claws is the most perfect ending for them possible.
40K is chock full of these themes too. The entire Horus Heresy is a stark example. The Traitors thought they were doing the right thing, but their reward was 10,000 years of damnation, anger, mutation, and misery to which they desperately try to fool themselves into thinking was what they wanted all along. Either that or they've become so sanity-blasted that they're no longer capable of rational thought. Nobody in 40K gets what they want. Why would the Genestealer Cult? The only happy ending is for the Orks, because all they want is to fight. For everybody else, it's all a lie. Serving the Emperor is a lie. Resisting the Emperor is a lie. And that's where the Chaos Cults and the Genestealer Cults and the Tau subversion comes in. Newer, different lies to manipulate the weak-minded into believing.
The Genestealer Cult isn't supposed to be a military asset for the Hive Fleet. They're the locator beacon for the Hive Fleet to find populated worlds. If the Cult represents biomass that won't resist, all the better. But the Cult itself is just a manifestation of the Patriarch's slow evolution of understanding of human culture to create a fabricated "religion" for them to follow. The Hive Mind doens't believe in the ascension. But it knows that its followers will be receptive to the idea.
Handing Tyranids tanks would effectively make fielding regular guard the most useless thing in the game. Why would anyone take plain guard, ever, when they can just take the Tanks + Biomonsters of a BB genestealer cult.
No, there's no way they end up BB. It would mean the end of IG almost completely.
DAMN YOU GW! DAMN YOU TO HELL! Three years, since I last played a 40k game and now I am excited like the first time I read through the 2nd edition codex.
In all honesty I am confused why cultists are BS3?
Like aren't renegades and conscripts BS2? Which I would of thought would of reflected GSC's melee focus better?
If the have BS2 and more expensive vehicles with limited upgrade options I would be completely fine with GSC's running tanks and allying with normal Nids.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Handing Tyranids tanks would effectively make fielding regular guard the most useless thing in the game. Why would anyone take plain guard, ever, when they can just take the Tanks + Biomonsters of a BB genestealer cult.
No, there's no way they end up BB. It would mean the end of IG almost completely.
I really truly cannot tell if you're serious or joking here.
Are you saying that the ability to ally in tyranids as battle brothers would make IG totally obsolete, because who would take IG at that point?
...You know IG is currently classified as "Armies of the Imperium" right? this means they have...if I'm counting right...eleven battle brother factions already?
What do tyranid MCs do that, say, allied Kastelan robots or dreadknights do not?
Mr.Church13 wrote: Handing Tyranids tanks would effectively make fielding regular guard the most useless thing in the game. Why would anyone take plain guard, ever, when they can just take the Tanks + Biomonsters of a BB genestealer cult.
No, there's no way they end up BB. It would mean the end of IG almost completely.
I really truly cannot tell if you're serious or joking here.
Are you saying that the ability to ally in tyranids as battle brothers would make IG totally obsolete, because who would take IG at that point?
...You know IG is currently classified as "Armies of the Imperium" right? this means they have...if I'm counting right...eleven battle brother factions already?
What do tyranid MCs do that, say, allied Kastelan robots or dreadknights do not?
Armies of invisible FMCs backed up by the IG armory is pretty devastating.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Handing Tyranids tanks would effectively make fielding regular guard the most useless thing in the game. Why would anyone take plain guard, ever, when they can just take the Tanks + Biomonsters of a BB genestealer cult.
No, there's no way they end up BB. It would mean the end of IG almost completely.
I really truly cannot tell if you're serious or joking here.
Are you saying that the ability to ally in tyranids as battle brothers would make IG totally obsolete, because who would take IG at that point?
...You know IG is currently classified as "Armies of the Imperium" right? this means they have...if I'm counting right...eleven battle brother factions already?
What do tyranid MCs do that, say, allied Kastelan robots or dreadknights do not?
Armies of invisible FMCs backed up by the IG armory is pretty devastating.
You mean no different to the likes of other FMC's like flying demon princes? And I bet at most they'll get sentinels, chimeras and non specialist leman russes. So no fliers, arty, punishers etc.
I would bet BS2 akin to renegades if it wasn't for the fact their basic infantry is BS3.... 'cos reasons'.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Handing Tyranids tanks would effectively make fielding regular guard the most useless thing in the game. Why would anyone take plain guard, ever, when they can just take the Tanks + Biomonsters of a BB genestealer cult.
No, there's no way they end up BB. It would mean the end of IG almost completely.
I really truly cannot tell if you're serious or joking here.
Are you saying that the ability to ally in tyranids as battle brothers would make IG totally obsolete, because who would take IG at that point?
...You know IG is currently classified as "Armies of the Imperium" right? this means they have...if I'm counting right...eleven battle brother factions already?
What do tyranid MCs do that, say, allied Kastelan robots or dreadknights do not?
Armies of invisible FMCs backed up by the IG armory is pretty devastating.
Yes, but we have no idea *what* GSC can bring other than a limo. Nor do we know if its at a reduced stateline, or increased price, or anything of that nature.
Furthermore, Nids are in such a bad spot atm anyway, that we really should wait and see what happens. If nothing else, it gives nids options insead of "Bring as many Flyrants as physically possible" to *try* to compete.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Handing Tyranids tanks would effectively make fielding regular guard the most useless thing in the game. Why would anyone take plain guard, ever, when they can just take the Tanks + Biomonsters of a BB genestealer cult.
No, there's no way they end up BB. It would mean the end of IG almost completely.
I really truly cannot tell if you're serious or joking here.
Are you saying that the ability to ally in tyranids as battle brothers would make IG totally obsolete, because who would take IG at that point?
...You know IG is currently classified as "Armies of the Imperium" right? this means they have...if I'm counting right...eleven battle brother factions already?
What do tyranid MCs do that, say, allied Kastelan robots or dreadknights do not?
Armies of invisible FMCs backed up by the IG armory is pretty devastating.
Yes, but we have no idea *what* GSC can bring other than a limo. Nor do we know if its at a reduced stateline, or increased price, or anything of that nature.
Furthermore, Nids are in such a bad spot atm anyway, that we really should wait and see what happens. If nothing else, it gives nids options insead of "Bring as many Flyrants as physically possible" to *try* to compete.
I was very exciter when the cult formation from death watch hit since it let me field tyranids warriors with a character that gave them stealth as well as shrouded 1st Turn and some cool new psychic shenanigans. Made me drop a flyrant and some other stuff. I was heartbroken when we lost battle brothers. Space marines can have invisible teleporting cent stars but an invisible melee unit of warriors is too op I guess. I'm really looking forward to the new codex and hoping for battle Bros again since they have their own psychic discipline now.
Yes, but we have no idea *what* GSC can bring other than a limo. Nor do we know if its at a reduced stateline, or increased price, or anything of that nature.
Read the rules for the GSC stuff, specifically "The Faithful Throng", from Overkill.
They're Guardsmen in everything but name and unit size.
Furthermore, Nids are in such a bad spot atm anyway, that we really should wait and see what happens. If nothing else, it gives nids options insead of "Bring as many Flyrants as physically possible" to *try* to compete.
Except then what happens to Guard?
We've seen this in the past with Marine books(and we're seeing it get fixed/adjusted now with the supplemental materials) where if multiple books have the same units and one book lingers but the others get updated, it makes for a really poor design and leaves players feeling like their army is getting shafted in favor of the "new hotness".
I was very exciter when the cult formation from death watch hit since it let me field tyranids warriors with a character that gave them stealth as well as shrouded 1st Turn and some cool new psychic shenanigans. Made me drop a flyrant and some other stuff. I was heartbroken when we lost battle brothers. Space marines can have invisible teleporting cent stars but an invisible melee unit of warriors is too op I guess. I'm really looking forward to the new codex and hoping for battle Bros again since they have their own psychic discipline now.
You do know that the "invisible teleporting centstars" is basically costing that Marine player all his points, yeah? Or making him do some weird thing of formation+CAD?
Additionally, with the way the new detachments for the various Chapters are set up--a few cannot even get Librarius Conclaves or Centurions.
Just looking at the PDF you linked, Kan, it looks like GSC members with Boneswords happened first in DW:OK - Primus Vorgan Trysst is wielding one, though there is no explanation of where he got it from.
I just noticed something in re-reading the fluff for Primus Vorgan Trysst. It says that he can render his opponents comatose with his needle pistol, and that the toxins in it are derived from his own blood. This reminded me of the stuff I recently re-read from the old RT era Cult rules - that some early gen Hybrids still had Ovipositors, but those that didn't could still infect hosts using their blood. It is also mentioned that victims of the Genestealer Kiss are rendered unconscious and later wake up with no memory of being attacked by a Genestealer. Anyone else think that little tidbit may be a subtle reference in Primus Trysst's fluff info to that old notion?
Thinking on it, the idea of using his weapon not only to knock out opposing forces, but to also secretly infect them with Genestealer DNA so that they can be "rescued" by their friends later, only to subvert them in turn is pretty sweet.
From a background perspective, the originating genestealer came from a hive ship, it will be covered in nid 'bacteria' or nid 'microscopic constructs' or 'biological nanites' or whatever they want to call them, when the stealer remains in a single place long enough, that stuff starts growing, gets secreted whathaveyou, eventually bioorganic structures form, some of those might bud or fruit the weaponry and so on.
'Looks like some kind of secreted resin...'
'Yeah but secreted from what?'
'Nobody touch nothing...'
You know, I've long been opposed to the idea of the Genestealer Cult including anything other than the weapons and such that Genestealer's normally have as part of their anatomy, and that includes these boneswords and lash whips, but the explanation you just gave might actually convince me otherwise. The Tyranid threat is insidious indeed!
And what a great (and terrible) mental image - a bonesword or lash whip "budding" as the fruit of a Tyranid bio-factory plant that came along for the ride.
Don't get me wrong though, I still don't want Cultists with Devourers and Fleshborers and such - I think keeping it to the more simple, single-organism close-combat biomorphs would be best. (Kind of like how the T-1000 was limited to making stabbing and slashing weapons, but wasn't sophisticated enough to form bombs or firearms.)
Dysartes wrote: Just looking at the PDF you linked, Kan, it looks like GSC members with Boneswords happened first in DW:OK - Primus Vorgan Trysst is wielding one, though there is no explanation of where he got it from.
I think it is implied that the Bonesword was something 'grown' via a failed hybrid aberrant.
I'm happy for those who are excited for the Genestealer Cults, no matter my feelings on the Guard stuff being thrown in. I'm gonna bow out of this thread for awhile so that I don't let my negativity dampen anyone's feelings.
This is a very mature thing to do, good for you, no sarcasm.
Sidenote - As stated previously, it was the natural path for GSC to get imperial vehicles, this has always been the theme of the army, always. I loves it!
A few quick things on this all over topic just because a PDF force or guard regiment can be technically subverted to the genecult doesn't mean the Astra Militarum unit will have access to the rest of the imperial forces that signify the current guard codex. In other words I don't expect any flyers which all fall under the imperial navy, I don't expect any vehicles that fall under forgeworlds jurisdictions, and I don't expect any units that fall under the auxilia sections of the Astra Militarum. This mainly leaves only infantry, chimeras, basic taurox, and leman Russ tanks. The rest is essentially outside the normal PDF/guard jurisdictions.
Furthermore the main point of genestealers is not just subverting local populaces to make them easier to consume but thier main design is being scouts to locate a large enough organic matter and once it has that location subverted enough send a psychic signal back to the hive to consume the location. Genestealers are basically food hunters for the hive. They spread and scout until they find this food and send out a call.
You do know that the "invisible teleporting centstars" is basically costing that Marine player all his points, yeah? Or making him do some weird thing of formation+CAD?
Additionally, with the way the new detachments for the various Chapters are set up--a few cannot even get Librarius Conclaves or Centurions.
You do know that fitting five or more flyrants into a list costs tyranid players the majority of their points or make them do weird or undesirable things like taking two mucolids and a flyrant as one detachment x5.
You do also know that that centastar still wrecks havoc on most other lists despite being only part of an army, albeit a good chunk of points. And it can be Allied into other forces.
What I see from most tyrants players is that they just want to be able to compete while not having to spam FMC. Giving us GSC could Very well be th first step in fixing some of the issue that plague the Codex. The first of a good few steps that hopefully include a semblance of balance amongst the armies.
If I understand correctly how GSC reproduces, the 1st generation corresponds to babies born to women who were infected by a genestealer. Then the 2 generation is made of the offspring of 1st generation hybrids, and so on. There should therefore be female genestealer hybrids, to produce the generations beyond the first.
I think all the models from Deathwatch OK were male. Is there a fluff reason why we would only see males?
fresus wrote: If I understand correctly how GSC reproduces, the 1st generation corresponds to babies born to women who were infected by a genestealer. Then the 2 generation is made of the offspring of 1st generation hybrids, and so on. There should therefore be female genestealer hybrids, to produce the generations beyond the first.
I think all the models from Deathwatch OK were male. Is there a fluff reason why we would only see males?
First gnerations are from male or female. Then the first gen breeds with the general populace via snatch and grab or hypnosis, breeding the second. They appear more human, making it easier to produce the third gens, who appear wholly human. Then they produce Purestrains from whomever they breed with.
Female genehybrids can hide away from their partners if they aren't hybrids, while female humans that birth hybrids or Purestrains have their biology altered while the creature gestates. When born, they're essentially permanently enthralled by their child.
fresus wrote: If I understand correctly how GSC reproduces, the 1st generation corresponds to babies born to women who were infected by a genestealer. Then the 2 generation is made of the offspring of 1st generation hybrids, and so on. There should therefore be female genestealer hybrids, to produce the generations beyond the first.
I think all the models from Deathwatch OK were male. Is there a fluff reason why we would only see males?
First gnerations are from male or female. Then the first ten breeds with the general populace via snatch and grab or hypnosis, breeding the second. They appear more human, making it easier to produce the third gens, who appear wholly human. Then they produce Purestrains from whomever they breed with.
Female genehybrids can hide away from their partners if they aren't hybrids, while female humans that birth hybrids or Purestrains have their biology altered while the creature gestates. When born, they're essentially permanently enthralled by their child.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Really don't know what the problem is with GSC stealing Guard vehicles. Them getting Russes is nothing new.
I'm pretty exited about the GSC, but I can see how looted vehicle can be irritating to IG players.
Tanks are IG's thing. The Leman Russ is an iconic model, and is part of what defines IG. If another army is given the right to use that model, then IG looses some of what makes it unique.
You mean like Orks and The Lost and the Damned used to be able to do back in 3rd edition?
That said, it seems that for the past few editions only real cross-codex vehicles were to get spiky and non-spiky versions of SM/CSM vehicles. They changed the looted vehicle rules for orcs from just taking one from another codex to one with a generic armor value and standard orky weapons. Shame LatD is now just formations with cultists, though. Renegade IG types with cultists that aren't messed with by the current allies table would have been nice.
IIRC the 1st and 2nd gen hybrids "reproduced" in the same way as purestrains, they used there optivisers to infect humans with there DNA. It was with the 3rd and 4th gens that they lost that ability. Purestrains were born by infecting a human female with blood from the Magus.
What other vehicles "fall under forgeworlds jurisdictions"? That would be the vehicles in the Codex: Skitarii and Codex: Cult Mechanicus. All the ones in the Astra Militarum army list may have been built on a Forge World, but they're owned and operated by the Departmento Munitarum or the government of whichever planet's PDF they're in.
If they're even built on a Forge World at all. Armageddon builds Basilisk and Medusa artillery pieces, for example.
As for the real-world history of the genestealers, originally in the Rogue Trader rules the genestealer was a wild beast, which created hybrids pretty much instantly (and which burst out from the implanted victim, like the Alien).
In 1989,Space Hulk introduced the idea of them infesting space hulks and reinvented their reproductive cycle into having them mutate their victim's offspring. The revised 40k rules which came along at roughly the same time added the Genestealer Invasion Force army list (Purestrains and early-generation hybrids awoken from stasis on a space hulk) and the Genestealer Cult army list.
At this point, the generic term for the extended family led by a Patriarch was the Genestealer Brood or when it had spread over several generations, the Clan. The Cult was a Brood which had allied with Chaos - to the extent that the Patriarch had offered itself up for daemonic possession - to gain more power.
There were also Ork hybrids, although the Orks' reproductive cycle (old Orks would wander off into the wilderness to breed, and then leave the resulting youngsters to survive on their own as wildboyz before being reintegrated into mainstream Ork society) meant that this wasn't a viable life cycle, and any purestrain desperate enough to end up with a brood of Ork Hybrids would try to use them as a means to encountering more useful hosts.
The Tyranid army list in WD145 (1992) made Brood units an adjunct of the Tyranid army, but without making the previous two army lists irrelevant. Then 2nd edition came along and dropped the Chaos angle entirely, as part of 2nd edition's efforts to make the different factions more distinct. A move that backfired slightly when they had access to every bit of kit the Imperial Guard had at the time (as well as plenty of things the Guard no longer had, like plasma cannons, multi-meltas, thud guns, mole mortars, Rhinos and Land Speeders).
GoatboyBeta wrote: IIRC the 1st and 2nd gen hybrids "reproduced" in the same way as purestrains, they used there optivisers to infect humans with there DNA. It was with the 3rd and 4th gens that they lost that ability. Purestrains were born by infecting a human female with blood from the Magus.
1st and 2nd have the kiss, it's often sterile in 2nd gen, so 3rd gen sees a population slump, are most welcomed, and are the first of two generations that 'conventionally' mate. The 4th generation, all of them, have the capacity to produce purestrain genestealer offspring, through conventional mating. In some background this was only ever the firstborn child, in other mentions, it was all children of the 4th.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: But that's the thing. The Tyranid creatures aren't supposed to recognize the Cult as allies. They just consume them right along with everyone else. So sure, the Cult allies with the Tyranids. Then the Tyranids just eat them anyway. How do you represent that on the tabletop?
Making them allies (at any level) ruins the entire thematic concept of the Cult. It's the grimdark tragic downfall. The Cult puts in so much work to subvert the planet's human authority and welcome their saviors... and their reward is to be completely disregarded and consumed as if they were nobody special.
But that does not make any sense whatsoever. The cultists are brainwashed. They do whatever hive mind does. They are PART of the hive mind by the time it comes there. Why hive mind would use part of itself killing part of itself while there's still humans to kill around before planet is conquered? When all it takes is flick of thought and cultists would be killing humans alongside other tyranids...
This is inficting typical of orks and makes it more likely tyranid fleet will get beaten up and defeated. Is hive mind in reality total idiot?
You do know that the "invisible teleporting centstars" is basically costing that Marine player all his points, yeah? Or making him do some weird thing of formation+CAD?
Additionally, with the way the new detachments for the various Chapters are set up--a few cannot even get Librarius Conclaves or Centurions.
You do know that fitting five or more flyrants into a list costs tyranid players the majority of their points or make them do weird or undesirable things like taking two mucolids and a flyrant as one detachment x5.
You do also know that that centastar still wrecks havoc on most other lists despite being only part of an army, albeit a good chunk of points. And it can be Allied into other forces.
What I see from most tyrants players is that they just want to be able to compete while not having to spam FMC. Giving us GSC could Very well be th first step in fixing some of the issue that plague the Codex. The first of a good few steps that hopefully include a semblance of balance amongst the armies.
So much this. One of these years I want a codex where the army isn't limited to one build, and doesn't have to rely on FW stuff, to be semi competitive. I know as a Tyranid player what I want - and from reading other threads I think other Nid players feel the same - is the ability to have variety without sacrificing the ability to even compete. I'm ok with the Allies of Convenience for the GSC, but I really don't think BB would be as OP as some people seem to think.
gorgon wrote: It makes me such a proud patriarch to see all you guys talking the intricacies of Cult fluff. Brings a tear to my eye.
Until the rules are out and then it will go the way of Deathwatch and Blood Angels, and not really herd from again. Funny how lackluster rules will kill excitement.
streetsamurai wrote: don't think it will. I'd say that a lot of 40k don't really care about the competitiveness of an army, uneles they are pure lemon
If it's good enough for casual play, then it's good enough for most. How many people truly play the game competitively anyone, and base all their purchases and decisions on whether an army can handle an invisible deathstar or gargantuan creature?
GoatboyBeta wrote: IIRC the 1st and 2nd gen hybrids "reproduced" in the same way as purestrains, they used there optivisers to infect humans with there DNA. It was with the 3rd and 4th gens that they lost that ability. Purestrains were born by infecting a human female with blood from the Magus.
1st and 2nd have the kiss, it's often sterile in 2nd gen, so 3rd gen sees a population slump, are most welcomed, and are the first of two generations that 'conventionally' mate. The 4th generation, all of them, have the capacity to produce purestrain genestealer offspring, through conventional mating. In some background this was only ever the firstborn child, in other mentions, it was all children of the 4th.
I know in the Shield of Baal campaign, the Deathstorm boxed set's missions involved hunting down a Broodlord and a pack of genestealers (The Children of Cryptus) who were born from a Genestealer Cult, and rescuing his brother, who is a human. So they're not all Purestrains. As a matter of fact, he's (the brother) afraid of them. It's explained (sorta) that they have a tenuous psychic link (which is likely because the Broodlord is psychic itself), but the human born of that generation has no desire to rejoin or assist the Hive.
Yeah, I can imagine that they feel a connection to the greater Hive depending on how much Tyranid blood they have in them. This is why the Religious aspects of the Cult are important to control the less tainted members.
Bi'ios wrote: I know in the Shield of Baal campaign, the Deathstorm boxed set's missions involved hunting down a Broodlord and a pack of genestealers (The Children of Cryptus) who were born from a Genestealer Cult, and rescuing his brother, who is a human. So they're not all Purestrains. As a matter of fact, he's (the brother) afraid of them. It's explained (sorta) that they have a tenuous psychic link (which is likely because the Broodlord is psychic itself), but the human born of that generation has no desire to rejoin or assist the Hive.
The novelisation heavily implies that they're only half brothers.
You do know that the "invisible teleporting centstars" is basically costing that Marine player all his points, yeah? Or making him do some weird thing of formation+CAD?
Additionally, with the way the new detachments for the various Chapters are set up--a few cannot even get Librarius Conclaves or Centurions.
You do know that fitting five or more flyrants into a list costs tyranid players the majority of their points or make them do weird or undesirable things like taking two mucolids and a flyrant as one detachment x5.
You do also know that that centastar still wrecks havoc on most other lists despite being only part of an army, albeit a good chunk of points. And it can be Allied into other forces.
Clarify what you're referring to as a Centstar please.
And explain how it's being allied in.
What I see from most tyrants players is that they just want to be able to compete while not having to spam FMC. Giving us GSC could Very well be th first step in fixing some of the issue that plague the Codex. The first of a good few steps that hopefully include a semblance of balance amongst the armies.
That's great and all, but GSC throwing in armored vehicles isn't going to fix Tyranids being a subpar book.
I'm hoping to grab 2-3 boxes of neophytes and box of Accolytes to round everything out plus whatever else it turns out might be good. I mean, currently what I have only totals like 1400pts per the pts from the DW:Overkill rules.
I have no idea how the new genestealer cult history will go, but I can tell a little about their first story and then we can just wait and see if gw will try to capture some of the original story.
The genestealer cycle. The genestealers or more likely the genestealer (who turns into a patriarch) implats the geneseed into a host.
The host will be altered by the geneseed, making the stronger, healthier and gain a long life. When the host breeds their shield will be a 1st generation hybrid.
The 1st generation implants the next host, which again breeds a 2nd generation hybrid.
The cycle continues with a 3rd generation hybrid. The gene is not always strong in the 3rd generations, so some may be drones who arn't able to implant the geneseed.
For those 3rds who still can implant they give their host the ability to breed a 4th generation hybrid, these hybrids can breed themselves their children can be either of their own kind, a hybrid or a genestealer.
The clan will always try to implants the purest and strongest host, so they avoid mutants, but favor psykers as these are the most evolved specimen of a race. And the psyker gene will also carry through the generation giving 3rd and 4th generation hybrid s psychic powers.
From this could be deprived that broodbrothers are above the average population, since it is the best who are implanted and the geneseed bolster them even further. Also the army could also be quite psyker heavy since these are the prime target for implant attacks.
The original rules did not include rules for genestealer clans. It included rules for genestealer cults, which are clans who have turn to chaos.
Often the genestealers clans weren't able to grown enough power on their own, so the patriarch would make the pragmatic choice and turn to chaos. This would turn the patriarch into an oracle and often it would let a demon posses it.
The genestealers are a strong willed race, and chaos can't really lure them like they can with other races, so cult is more a allied with chaos than taken over by chaos.
Though the cult gain access to demons, mutant, beastmen and chaos spawns, the cult may suffer on long turn basis due to the genestealers natural adaptability to alien biology. Their adaptability also welcomes chaos mutation and many of the implanted hosts will breed mutated children. Mutants are instinctively avoided as hosts as they would mutate the gene. So a genestealer cult may run out of usable hosts if they don't launch their final attack early enough.
If gw follow this story the genestealer cult should be able to ally with chaos and demons, since its a chaos cult not a pure genestealer clan. They should even be able to include mutant/beastmen units.
The original cult force, where very light on heavy weaponry and armor. It relied on psykers and overwhelming numbers of trash troops with a touch of super assault troops (be it genestealers, hybrids, demons or chaosspawns, that could used as mounts!).
The cult could include lots of vehicles. But vehicles weaponry where quite spares. So it was mainly transport vehicles ranging from bikes and jetbikes to citycars and apcs.
So even though the cult did try to infiltrate military organizations to weaken the targets defense and gain access to trained troops and weapons, they were never able to steal military grade vehicles since this would rise unwanted attention.
Considering this, the cult shouldn't really have tanks but rhinos, bikes etc. could be fair game. But maybe the brood brothesr from the military could be able to commandeer a few tanks when hell breaks loose.
Something I've never quite understood, other than it's "Because GW says so" - why is it that the 4th generation hybrids can breed purestrain genestealers (let alone the technical aspects of actually giving live birth to a baby genestealer)?
Accounting for the fact that hybrids cannot breed with other hybrids until the 4th generation:
Original purestrain - 100% genestealer DNA
1st generation hybrid - 50% DNA
2nd generation - 25% DNA
3rd generation - 12.5% DNA
4th generation - 6.25% genestealer DNA
Average recombinant DNA would be roughly 6.25% if the 4th generation breeds with another 4th generation, or 3.125% if they breed with a non-hybrid. At most, through random gene pairing, you could get as much as 12.5% genestealer DNA, that somehow rewrites the entire organism to present as a purestrain.
The science doesn't add up. Is there a canon explanation as to why this can occur in a cult?
MeanGreenStompa wrote: From a background perspective, the originating genestealer came from a hive ship, it will be covered in nid 'bacteria' or nid 'microscopic constructs' or 'biological nanites' or whatever they want to call them, when the stealer remains in a single place long enough, that stuff starts growing, gets secreted whathaveyou, eventually bioorganic structures form, some of those might bud or fruit the weaponry and so on.
'Looks like some kind of secreted resin...'
'Yeah but secreted from what?'
'Nobody touch nothing...'
Sort of what I was thinking too.
From a fluff perspective, GSC owes a lot to the Alien franchise. I highly recommend the Alien: Book One graphic novel by Verheiden. It came out in 1990 and featured a storyline where a religious cult which (you guessed it) worships the Aliens (aka xenomorphs) and uses human wave attacks to break into the lab where they are being held so that they can intentionally infect themselves with the "face hugger" aliens. It's a good read - likely better than whatever tripe they'll serve up in the new codex.
As an aside, I have my doubts about whether the cult has any idea about the true nature of the Tyranid race. As I recall, the Imperium has gone to great lengths to compartmentalize knowledge about the Nid threat. Thus, even if they knew ther "saviors" are out there, it's not likely the average hybrid has any idea what's in store for him once the Tyrannocytes start falling
I always viewed it as a time delay mechanism for a weapon rather than biology.
The inital stage is that the genestealer seed arrives on the planet and begins infecting the natives.
While stage 2-3 are breeding they have to remain largely in the shadows due to how physical differences would betray their presence, they are very active but mostly concealed in the underhives and other out of the way areas where they need to build a support base.
Stage 4 they are at the point where they can properly infiltrate themselves into the planets population without detection allowing them to place themselves in vital areas to sabotage and subvert. Once this process is fully in place they no longer need the human disguise but need the genestealer muscle again so they revert back to producing purestrains to be the final stage in the invasion cycle.
Their genetics override the hosts, it temporarily imprints part of the host onto their form as a hybrid but at root they are still foremost a genestealer. It's part of a calculated & well planned sleeper cycle, the hybrid form is an adopted external disguise while the core is still always genestealer they eventually "reset" giving up any imprints of the host and going back to their true form once the final invasion is ready to be sprung.
Yeah i mean it's sci-fantasy so it does happen because it's cool and progresses the story. I just tried wrapping my head around it because the progression from purestrain through 4th generation is actually shown very realistically in the current DWOK minis.
From a fluff perspective, GSC owes a lot to the Alien franchise. I highly recommend the Alien: Book One graphic novel by Verheiden. It came out in 1990 and featured a storyline where a religious cult which (you guessed it) worships the Aliens (aka xenomorphs) and uses human wave attacks to break into the lab where they are being held so that they can intentionally infect themselves with the "face hugger" aliens. It's a good read - likely better than whatever tripe they'll serve up in the new codex.
As an aside, I have my doubts about whether the cult has any idea about the true nature of the Tyranid race. As I recall, the Imperium has gone to great lengths to compartmentalize knowledge about the Nid threat. Thus, even if they knew ther "saviors" are out there, it's not likely the average hybrid has any idea what's in store for him once the Tyrannocytes start falling
They have no more understanding than the average Gaunt... aka none at all.
paulson games wrote: I always viewed it as a time delay mechanism for a weapon rather than biology.
The inital stage is that the genestealer seed arrives on the planet and begins infecting the natives.
While stage 2-3 are breeding they have to remain largely in the shadows due to how physical differences would betray their presence, they are very active but mostly concealed in the underhives and other out of the way areas where they need to build a support base.
Stage 4 they are at the point where they can properly infiltrate themselves into the planets population without detection allowing them to place themselves in vital areas to sabotage and subvert. Once this process is fully in place they no longer need the human disguise but need the genestealer muscle again so they revert back to producing purestrains to be the final stage in the invasion cycle.
Their genetics override the hosts, it temporarily imprints part of the host onto their form as a hybrid but at root they are still foremost a genestealer. It's part of a calculated & well planned sleeper cycle, the hybrid form is an adopted external disguise while the core is still always genestealer they eventually "reset" giving up any imprints of the host and going back to their true form once the final invasion is ready to be sprung.
To be honest, I've never put that much thought into it, but that seems like a pretty reasonable explanation. Exalted.
Well, to break it down in roughly scientific terms...
First off, we know that 4th gens can birth pure genestealers, meaning that the entire genetic code remains intact through the generations in some form. Secondly, we know that aside from the above there is a reduction in genestealer-traits from one generation to another. This makes me think that the initial implant includes one or more viral elements which insert themselves into the host genome appropriately, as well as a separate bacterial element which exists and multiplies within the host's cells but keeps its own distinct genetic code (somewhat similar to mitochondria) and holds the entire genestealer genome. This extra element does not modify the host's code, but is passed on to offspring while the initial viral elements are not. This means the alien traits are reduced in frequency with subsequent generations but said generations still carry the full genome of a 'stealer via the bacterial parasite. Upon an appropriate trigger, this parasite commandeers the host's reproductive systems, replacing the native genome with the full genestealer one that it carries.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Handing Tyranids tanks would effectively make fielding regular guard the most useless thing in the game. Why would anyone take plain guard, ever, when they can just take the Tanks + Biomonsters of a BB genestealer cult.
No, there's no way they end up BB. It would mean the end of IG almost completely.
Col. Hardsell says
What sort of Heresy talk is that! No self respecting guard commander is going to put up with that alien filth in the ranks! Even if you need to unzip your trousers to count to count past 10 you can figure out 2 arms good 3 arms bad suffer not the alien to live!
Oooo look, someone has got their hands on a LRBT,well whoop de do,we field them them in fething squadrons!
End rp rant.
That was my way of saying I don't think so, though I am looking forward to a small GSC army, and will loot any imperial vehicle they add for my arbites!
jah-joshua wrote: i still have a purple Leman Russ tank in a box somewhere from 1991, alongside all of the metal hybrids...
it might be time to bust out that box
Funnily, this kinda possible (though not mentioned and of course not thought through by GW)... Genestealers and early generation hybrids don't have a gender, but the 4th generation mates like humans, so... female Magus as Forge World event-only miniature when?
The novelisation heavily implies that they're only half brothers.
Also the brother is older, he has no genestealer DNA on him.
I don't recall that part (not that I doubt you), so I think I might have to reread that one. It's not too long anyway, and it was sweet anyway (DC Dread blowing the Carnifex's head off with its melta = awesome). But thats going OT anyway. But, yeah, there ya go. Modern example of a GS cult right there.
Warhams-77 wrote: The first 40k Tyranid Army list was the one in White Dwarf 145 (1st Edition) and both were fighting side-by-side
Did you know that the Ultramarines Chapter were a 2nd Founding Chapter created to replace the original Ultramarines who all turned to Chaos? Did you also know that the Ultramarines Chief Librarian is a half-human/half-Eldar hybrid?
The point I'm making is that Rogue Trader was a long time ago, and what was written then may not be what is true now.
I guess this all stems from a lack of information GW has put out on the subject of GSC/Tyranid interaction. Hopefully something in the codex or black library will address this.
Eh... not really. The Cult isn't going to expose a pregnant mother to combat, it would be like having a pregnant IG female.
Sarcasm, friend.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quarterdime wrote: I guess this all stems from a lack of information GW has put out on the subject of GSC/Tyranid interaction. Hopefully something in the codex or black library will address this.
There's a GSC novel coming alongside the codex that I'd like to read.
Guess it shows that Roundtree could talk a gak directly in these fanboys mouth and make them believe it's chocolate ice cream (which they'll have to pay for of course)
