monarda wrote: I have Celestine (and her Geminae) and an Immolator. What ten to twelve infantry models would you advise I buy next to make a patrol detachment?
(Think of it as a finishing off my Start Collecting! Sororitas box )
The good thing is that many of the specialist Sisters units are the same model as the normal battle sisters - so basic sisters with bolters, Stormbolters, Hv Bolters, flamers and melta guns are a good choice as they can represent Battle Sisters, Dominions, Retributors, Celestians
As GW still can't be bothered to support the line you might want to see if you like these?
monarda wrote: I have Celestine (and her Geminae) and an Immolator. What ten to twelve infantry models would you advise I buy next to make a patrol detachment?
(Think of it as a finishing off my Start Collecting! Sororitas box )
Assuming you cant get anything off of ebay, which is where I would look first just make sure you get back packs with your models, go for one Dominion squad set and one Sororitas squad set.
Would give you:
two meltaguns
two flamers
two stormbolters
two sisters superior
one Imagifer
six bolter sisters
Which could then become:
HQ- Canoness (sister superior model with power sword)
Elites- Imagifer
Troops- BSS (5) superior w/ stormbolter, 2 meltaguns, 2 bolter sisters
Troops- BSS (5) superior w/ stormbolter, 2 flamers, 2 bolter sisters
Leaving you with:
sister superior (with holstered sword)
2 bolter sisters
These you could easily dump into whichever squad isn't in the Immolator or turn into a third BSS by picking up two special weapons of your choice. Or a Retributor squad by picking up some heavy weapons. None of them are terrible choices really. I just wouldn't go too far into the BSS box set beyond the first. Gets you pretty close to 750 points without tacking on a bunch of wargear.
Is the Repressor pretty much accepted as part of the Sisters arsenal on the gaming table, or are there venues / opponents who don't allow them? I'm thinking of (finally) converting some of my Immolators to Repressors.
davidgr33n wrote: Is the Repressor pretty much accepted as part of the Sisters arsenal on the gaming table, or are there venues / opponents who don't allow them? I'm thinking of (finally) converting some of my Immolators to Repressors.
You'll have to check with your local events/stores first, but around here FW is accepted.
dracpanzer wrote: Assuming you cant get anything off of ebay, which is where I would look first just make sure you get back packs with your models, go for one Dominion squad set and one Sororitas squad set.
Thanks, that's clearly a good starting place. But the cost means it will be waiting till my next pay-cheque or later. But I imagine such is the way for potential Sisters players.
Hello my fellow Sister players!
I am new to this forum and new to the Sisters of Battle and fell in love with them in this Edition.
I read the whole thread and you all are amazing!
all of your tips helped me to build lists and ideas to destroy the enemy
But I still have a lot of Questions about a lot of stuff and hope you guys could help me out .
For example, can someone give me a hint were I can find the ruleing that Sister Superiors or the Cannoness can have Storm Bolter ?
I can`t seem to find it...
GW release some balance changes and missed wargear sections for many armies (the index's were rushed)
Also the BSS Superior it is a "Range weapon" that has the SB on it as well as in "special weapons" some of the weapons are in 2 spots. Dbl check to make sure.
Does anyone have a favorite 500 point build? My group is going to run some low stakes round robin games at 500 to help some new players learn the rules. I'm leaning toward a Spearhead with HB Rets with a Canoness, HF Rets in a Rhino, and my new Penitent Engine I just acquired and rebuilt. Good output at various ranges, good mobility, some anti armor from the PE, and very cool flavor.
Other options... The all-Fast Attack option of 3x Doms rocking the holy trinity? Battalion with 3x BSS blobs and Jacobus? Some other nutty scheme? I'd love some ideas...
Now with codexes being released and detachments having to be purely of one facrion to benefit from "chapter tactics" and similar what would be ideal cheap detachment to bring along Guard list. I think I'm really going to need Celestine.
I play the mobility game (well as much as SOB can do, it not Eldar mobility, but with Scout and a large Seraphim unit)
Use this list if you want to stomp the new people's faces in. But.. since the goal for this seems like its based in fun and teaching new people the basics of the game, I'd go with:
Canoness
Retributors
Imagifer
Penitent Engine
Seraphim w/hand flamers
Dominion squad if there's points still.
It's a rounded list that shows a little bit of every type of unit as well as a couple AoF shenanigans. Or if you want to win, use Amish's.
I play the mobility game (well as much as SOB can do, it not Eldar mobility, but with Scout and a large Seraphim unit)
Use this list if you want to stomp the new people's faces in. But.. since the goal for this seems like its based in fun and teaching new people the basics of the game, I'd go with:
Canoness
Retributors
Imagifer
Penitent Engine
Seraphim w/hand flamers
Dominion squad if there's points still.
It's a rounded list that shows a little bit of every type of unit as well as a couple AoF shenanigans. Or if you want to win, use Amish's.
3 units starting on the board 2 rhinos and a jump unit, yeah its strong, but its all just bolters and 3 flamers, the melta is on the fragile unit.
It seems scary but really its just like 22-24 bolter shots a turn if the opponent stays out of range.
The Doms can get within range someone easy, but if they are new, you dont have to scout them.
Its a list made to help new players understand Threat and positioning.
I'd stray away from Repressors for new people, since shooting out of transports is a rarity this edition, it will only add a confusing layer off the start. I guess I'm too used to using kid gloves with new people. I tend to pull my punches and play dumb to let them have a feeling of accomplishment to get them more interested.
deviantduck wrote: I'd stray away from Repressors for new people, since shooting out of transports is a rarity this edition, it will only add a confusing layer off the start. I guess I'm too used to using kid gloves with new people. I tend to pull my punches and play dumb to let them have a feeling of accomplishment to get them more interested.
DE, Harlequins, Orks, Necrons only have open top transports, its not that rare.
Still, open-topped is a slightly different rule than what the repressors have. Necrons don't have anything that is open-topped (irritatingly).
That being said, I believe that it is up to each player to give his opponent a good game. I probably would stay away from Forgeworld units... at least at the beginning.
Fueli wrote:Now with codexes being released and detachments having to be purely of one facrion to benefit from "chapter tactics" and similar what would be ideal cheap detachment to bring along Guard list. I think I'm really going to need Celestine.
will give you a solid allied detachment, but it isn't cheap.
If you just want Celestine, you can go:
Auxiliary Support [-1CP], (200)
200 - Celestine, 1x Gemini
and that's the cheapest you can be. I think the 1 CP tax from using an Aux. Support detachment is less than the 45 point tax from using a Patrol detachment.
As a Guard player, if I'm trying to wreck someone's day, I think buying another Manticore, more Conscripts, more Stormtrooper Command Squads and Commanders, or some combination of the above, would go considerably further.
MacPhail wrote:Does anyone have a favorite 500 point build? My group is going to run some low stakes round robin games at 500 to help some new players learn the rules. I'm leaning toward a Spearhead with HB Rets with a Canoness, HF Rets in a Rhino, and my new Penitent Engine I just acquired and rebuilt. Good output at various ranges, good mobility, some anti armor from the PE, and very cool flavor.
Other options... The all-Fast Attack option of 3x Doms rocking the holy trinity? Battalion with 3x BSS blobs and Jacobus? Some other nutty scheme? I'd love some ideas...
and it worked. However, it, much like the IG lists I brought that day, didn't make me any friends.
At 500, and with new players, I might shy away from using St. Celestine, stick to a patrol detachment, and probably not use more than one squad of Dominions. I don't really believe in handicapping myself, though.
deviantduck wrote:I'd stray away from Repressors for new people, since shooting out of transports is a rarity this edition, it will only add a confusing layer off the start. I guess I'm too used to using kid gloves with new people. I tend to pull my punches and play dumb to let them have a feeling of accomplishment to get them more interested.
It's not confusing, but it's rather nasty, and you don't want to be kicking new player's asses around left and right.
deviantduck wrote: I'd stray away from Repressors for new people, since shooting out of transports is a rarity this edition, it will only add a confusing layer off the start. I guess I'm too used to using kid gloves with new people. I tend to pull my punches and play dumb to let them have a feeling of accomplishment to get them more interested.
DE, Harlequins, Orks, Necrons only have open top transports, its not that rare.
Very true. But that's still a fraction of factions compared to 7th.
On a separate note:
How do we interpret this?
When shooting a flyer:
Hard to Hit: Your opponent must subtract 1 from hit rolls for attacks that target this model in the Shooting phase.
So, do we fire at full BS when using AoF shooting on Flyers? It's not the shooting phase... but we shoot as if it it was... but it's not.
Fueli wrote:Now with codexes being released and detachments having to be purely of one facrion to benefit from "chapter tactics" and similar what would be ideal cheap detachment to bring along Guard list. I think I'm really going to need Celestine.
will give you a solid allied detachment, but it isn't cheap.
If you just want Celestine, you can go:
Auxiliary Support [-1CP], (200)
200 - Celestine, 1x Gemini
and that's the cheapest you can be. I think the 1 CP tax from using an Aux. Support detachment is less than the 45 point tax from using a Patrol detachment.
As a Guard player, if I'm trying to wreck someone's day, I think buying another Manticore, more Conscripts, more Stormtrooper Command Squads and Commanders, or some combination of the above, would go considerably further.
MacPhail wrote:Does anyone have a favorite 500 point build? My group is going to run some low stakes round robin games at 500 to help some new players learn the rules. I'm leaning toward a Spearhead with HB Rets with a Canoness, HF Rets in a Rhino, and my new Penitent Engine I just acquired and rebuilt. Good output at various ranges, good mobility, some anti armor from the PE, and very cool flavor.
Other options... The all-Fast Attack option of 3x Doms rocking the holy trinity? Battalion with 3x BSS blobs and Jacobus? Some other nutty scheme? I'd love some ideas...
and it worked. However, it, much like the IG lists I brought that day, didn't make me any friends.
At 500, and with new players, I might shy away from using St. Celestine, stick to a patrol detachment, and probably not use more than one squad of Dominions. I don't really believe in handicapping myself, though.
deviantduck wrote:I'd stray away from Repressors for new people, since shooting out of transports is a rarity this edition, it will only add a confusing layer off the start. I guess I'm too used to using kid gloves with new people. I tend to pull my punches and play dumb to let them have a feeling of accomplishment to get them more interested.
It's not confusing, but it's rather nasty, and you don't want to be kicking new player's asses around left and right.
Totally forgot about auxiliary detachment, doh!
I'm liking Dominions though. Maybe I'll get some Sisters. Although I got plenty of Scions to fill almost a same role already.
Fueli wrote:Now with codexes being released and detachments having to be purely of one facrion to benefit from "chapter tactics" and similar what would be ideal cheap detachment to bring along Guard list. I think I'm really going to need Celestine.
will give you a solid allied detachment, but it isn't cheap.
If you just want Celestine, you can go:
Auxiliary Support [-1CP], (200)
200 - Celestine, 1x Gemini
and that's the cheapest you can be. I think the 1 CP tax from using an Aux. Support detachment is less than the 45 point tax from using a Patrol detachment.
As a Guard player, if I'm trying to wreck someone's day, I think buying another Manticore, more Conscripts, more Stormtrooper Command Squads and Commanders, or some combination of the above, would go considerably further.
MacPhail wrote:Does anyone have a favorite 500 point build? My group is going to run some low stakes round robin games at 500 to help some new players learn the rules. I'm leaning toward a Spearhead with HB Rets with a Canoness, HF Rets in a Rhino, and my new Penitent Engine I just acquired and rebuilt. Good output at various ranges, good mobility, some anti armor from the PE, and very cool flavor.
Other options... The all-Fast Attack option of 3x Doms rocking the holy trinity? Battalion with 3x BSS blobs and Jacobus? Some other nutty scheme? I'd love some ideas...
and it worked. However, it, much like the IG lists I brought that day, didn't make me any friends.
At 500, and with new players, I might shy away from using St. Celestine, stick to a patrol detachment, and probably not use more than one squad of Dominions. I don't really believe in handicapping myself, though.
deviantduck wrote:I'd stray away from Repressors for new people, since shooting out of transports is a rarity this edition, it will only add a confusing layer off the start. I guess I'm too used to using kid gloves with new people. I tend to pull my punches and play dumb to let them have a feeling of accomplishment to get them more interested.
It's not confusing, but it's rather nasty, and you don't want to be kicking new player's asses around left and right.
Totally forgot about auxiliary detachment, doh!
I'm liking Dominions though. Maybe I'll get some Sisters. Although I got plenty of Scions to fill almost a same role already.
I don't actually think Guard+Sisters works all that well, actually. Sisters+Guard works considerably better, I think.
As Sisters, splashing Guard to bring Earthshaker batteries [or any ranged firebase unit] instead of Exorcists works.
is a good add-on, if it's allowed. Every asset can pull it's weight and it's cheap, so it doesn't detract heavily from the core function of the parent army. It's also more efficient than the alternative, and fill a hole in the force, so it adds meaningfully to the ability of the parent force.
However, as Guard, splashing Sisters to bring Dominions instead of Scions doesn't.
Scions are good. Bringing Dominions doesn't shore up a hole in the Guard army, and the Sisters allied detachment is expensive. It doesn't add meaningfully, but it detracts fairly heavily in the form of cost.
As a general rule, Guard right now can do whatever you do more efficiently than you can, so it's almost always good to splash Guard as anyone else and almost never good to splash anyone else as Guard. The only thing I'd consider splashing as Guard would be Imperial Knights, but even then Baneblades are probably superior for cost.
Notched a win and a draw today at 1000 points. My list was thrown together (I had planned for 500) but played adequately.
The win was against CSM with Abaddon, cultists, and SO much plasma... I felt pretty good about my range management and charge decisions. Charging with Immolators at times is worth sacrificing a turn of shooting if it ties up a bunch of S7 rapid fire.
The draw was against Termagant respawn 'Nids. We called it when we realized that Tervigons are big enough to target despite being characters. Neither of us had realized it, leading to decisions on both sides we weren't happy with. Celestine was drowning in gribblies, the Tervigons were boxed in, nobody could budge to pursue objectives, and we were tied in Turn 4. We agreed the game had veered in an unsatisfying direction due to player error and agreed on a rematch. It was the first time I'd faced big bugs and the first time he'd played them. Lesson learned!
Still a good day for the Imperium, and an agreeable day of gaming among gentlemen.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thanks for the excellent 500 point suggestions, too. I didn't end up playing that point value or those opponents, but the ideas were solid... I ended up merging the Outrider and Spearhead suggestions into a pretty functional 1k army.
In the case of this group, they've played together for years and I don't think many of them play outside the group. I've played with them for three years, and I'm almost the newest member. They're wary of power creep, .
A very intelligent position and one that has the benefit of hindsight already.
Played a 2k game against Death Guard yesterday. Mortarion is an absolute beast, flew right up to my three squads of HB Rets, Canoness, Imagifers (2) and Exorcists (2) base of fire. I ignored him as best I could apart from feeding him piece meal. Was able to contain him a bit by overloading models into the objective he had a defend card for. Celestine and the SB Doms wrecked Typhus and everything else including 60-80? Poxwalkers. Mortarion probably killed 1250 points by himself. I didn't fire on him until I had too but was able to manage seven wounds on the big guy. 11-10 win for the Sisters. Mortarion is a great model, rules make him an absolute beast, and he proves to me Celestine is not OP.
So as i heared sisters are a lot better this edition, but would you say that sisters are Over Powered in comparison to the other armys ?
My friends and I all started fresh this edition so we are pretty unexperienced wenn it comes to playing, but i manage to win 99% of my games at an
Point level from 500pts to 1000pts.
They all hate playing against sisters, saying "they are to cheap for what they bring" and " 4 AoF`s a Turn is stupid", but all hate Celestine the most.
I think you guys have more practice then we do, so i just want to ask.
monarda wrote: I have Celestine (and her Geminae) and an Immolator. What ten to twelve infantry models would you advise I buy next to make a patrol detachment?
(Think of it as a finishing off my Start Collecting! Sororitas box )
Assuming you cant get anything off of ebay, which is where I would look first just make sure you get back packs with your models, go for one Dominion squad set and one Sororitas squad set.
Having taken your advice about eBay I have
1 x Sister Superior with plasma pistol and chain sword.
2 x battle sisters with Storm Bolter
7 x battle sisters with bolt gun
on the way.
I imagine the Dominion squad is still a good idea but that it's now probably worth picking out the individual models I want rather than going for a Sororitas squad set. Thanks again for your advice.
WhiteListedUser wrote: So as i heared sisters are a lot better this edition, but would you say that sisters are Over Powered in comparison to the other armys ?
My friends and I all started fresh this edition so we are pretty unexperienced wenn it comes to playing, but i manage to win 99% of my games at an
Point level from 500pts to 1000pts.
They all hate playing against sisters, saying "they are to cheap for what they bring" and " 4 AoF`s a Turn is stupid", but all hate Celestine the most.
I think you guys have more practice then we do, so i just want to ask.
Uh no? I don't think so, but I seem to have won my local league, so take that with a grain of salt.
Compare to Scions, Dominions are 1 point more base, are more vulnerable, pay more for fewer weapon options, and also have to pay for a transport. Compare Genestealers, and we also don't stack up, considering that we're still paying for the transport. You can basically do this across the board.
However, we're going to field our one good unit whether the game is "casual" or "competitive". We don't have a lot of options. So we'll wreck casual players, but if our opponent is actually trying to win, then we might encounter a bit of problems.. The main advantage Dominions have over Scions, 'stealers, etc. is being able to start on the board, which is a vulnerability but means we don't run afoul of the 1/2 on the board rule limiting the maximum power of our turn-1 strike.
I also am not sure why you're fielding 3-4 Imagifiers. I wouldn't.
dracpanzer wrote: Played a 2k game against Death Guard yesterday. Mortarion is an absolute beast, flew right up to my three squads of HB Rets, Canoness, Imagifers (2) and Exorcists (2) base of fire. I ignored him as best I could apart from feeding him piece meal. Was able to contain him a bit by overloading models into the objective he had a defend card for. Celestine and the SB Doms wrecked Typhus and everything else including 60-80? Poxwalkers. Mortarion probably killed 1250 points by himself. I didn't fire on him until I had too but was able to manage seven wounds on the big guy. 11-10 win for the Sisters. Mortarion is a great model, rules make him an absolute beast, and he proves to me Celestine is not OP.
I got a peek a Mortarion on the table next to me this weekend. He looks absolutely devastating. He was matched against Guilliman and for that reason alone the game played out to its full extent... short of that it would have been extremely one-sided. I think Sisters will need to focus on the mission, feed him sacrificial units, and try to minimize damage as you've said, because I don't see a head-to-head confrontation being an option, even with Celestine.
WhiteListedUser wrote: So as i heared sisters are a lot better this edition, but would you say that sisters are Over Powered in comparison to the other armys ?
My friends and I all started fresh this edition so we are pretty unexperienced wenn it comes to playing, but i manage to win 99% of my games at an
Point level from 500pts to 1000pts.
They all hate playing against sisters, saying "they are to cheap for what they bring" and " 4 AoF`s a Turn is stupid", but all hate Celestine the most.
I think you guys have more practice then we do, so i just want to ask.
Sisters of Battle do well in 500-1000pt games, but scale very poorly at high values due to the fact that you get one free Act of Faith, but everything after the first taste costs a little extra.
Let's say you have one unit of Sisters, and that's your entire army. (Or two units, if one of them is Celestine.)
100% of your army can either move twice, shoot twice, fight twice, or regenerate a model. The effectiveness of that one unit is increased by a good 50%, or even wholly doubled if it's a stationary fire base like Retributors.
Now let's say that you have five units - Celestine and four others.
40% of your army can use those abilities.
Now let's say you take a Brigade. Even if you take Celestine and all three of your mandatory Elites choices are Simalcrum Imperialus bearers, you're only getting an average of 3.5 Acts of Faith to your 18+ units. That's less than 20% of your army.
Even with that in mind, though... No, Sisters of Battle are not overpowered. They're too limited on options and bound to certain, specific builds to be overpowered. If you have lots of good AP at medium strength, you can kill them all really easily.
WhiteListedUser wrote: So as i heared sisters are a lot better this edition, but would you say that sisters are Over Powered in comparison to the other armys ?
My friends and I all started fresh this edition so we are pretty unexperienced wenn it comes to playing, but i manage to win 99% of my games at an
Point level from 500pts to 1000pts.
They all hate playing against sisters, saying "they are to cheap for what they bring" and " 4 AoF`s a Turn is stupid", but all hate Celestine the most.
I think you guys have more practice then we do, so i just want to ask.
Sisters of Battle do well in 500-1000pt games, but scale very poorly at high values due to the fact that you get one free Act of Faith, but everything after the first taste costs a little extra.
Let's say you have one unit of Sisters, and that's your entire army. (Or two units, if one of them is Celestine.)
100% of your army can either move twice, shoot twice, fight twice, or regenerate a model. The effectiveness of that one unit is increased by a good 50%, or even wholly doubled if it's a stationary fire base like Retributors.
Now let's say that you have five units - Celestine and four others.
40% of your army can use those abilities.
Now let's say you take a Brigade. Even if you take Celestine and all three of your mandatory Elites choices are Simalcrum Imperialus bearers, you're only getting an average of 3.5 Acts of Faith to your 18+ units. That's less than 20% of your army.
Even with that in mind, though... No, Sisters of Battle are not overpowered. They're too limited on options and bound to certain, specific builds to be overpowered. If you have lots of good AP at medium strength, you can kill them all really easily.
This is most likely change with our Codex.
Edit: You can make sure GW knows this tho and how we feel if you wanted to shoot them a message, they are listening this time for sure.
WhiteListedUser wrote: So as i heared sisters are a lot better this edition, but would you say that sisters are Over Powered in comparison to the other armys ?
My friends and I all started fresh this edition so we are pretty unexperienced wenn it comes to playing, but i manage to win 99% of my games at an
Point level from 500pts to 1000pts.
They all hate playing against sisters, saying "they are to cheap for what they bring" and " 4 AoF`s a Turn is stupid", but all hate Celestine the most.
I think you guys have more practice then we do, so i just want to ask.
Celestine and the Relic Mission is stupid for sure. But then the Relic Mission is the dumbest mission. So there's that.
Battle Sister Squad [8 PL, 96pts] . 7x Battle Sister . Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter . Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter . Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
Battle Sister Squad [8 PL, 96pts] . 7x Battle Sister . Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter . Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter . Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
Battle Sister Squad [8 PL, 96pts] . 7x Battle Sister . Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter . Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter . Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
+ Elites +
Imagifier [2 PL, 40pts]
Imagifier [2 PL, 40pts]
+ Fast Attack +
Dominion Squad [5 PL, 137pts] . Dominion Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-melta . Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun . Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
+ Heavy Support +
Retributor Squad [5 PL, 85pts] . Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword . Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter . Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter . Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter . Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
Retributor Squad [5 PL, 85pts] . Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword . Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter . Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter . Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter . Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
+ Dedicated Transport +
Sororitas Repressor [5 PL, 107pts]: Heavy flamer, Heavy flamer, Storm bolter
I've just gotten a Sisters squad to add to my Space Marines army. Celestine along with a regular troop squad of Battle Sisters with Storm Bolters to help add some dakka.
I also have a Dominion Squad with 2 flamers and 2 meltas, along with Veridyan (so, a Canoness) but I'm wondering if it would be worth it to bring those into the force?
WhiteListedUser wrote: So as i heared sisters are a lot better this edition, but would you say that sisters are Over Powered in comparison to the other armys ?
My friends and I all started fresh this edition so we are pretty unexperienced wenn it comes to playing, but i manage to win 99% of my games at an
Point level from 500pts to 1000pts.
They all hate playing against sisters, saying "they are to cheap for what they bring" and " 4 AoF`s a Turn is stupid", but all hate Celestine the most.
I think you guys have more practice then we do, so i just want to ask.
Celestine and the Relic Mission is stupid for sure. But then the Relic Mission is the dumbest mission. So there's that.
Oh yes, that was funny. Relic came up while I was playing in the league, and though my opponent had first, he didn't get anyone on the point turn 1, and I ran out, grabbed it, and ran off and played keep away for the rest of the game, because 9" of move was still faster than anything he had to chase after me with.
WhiteListedUser wrote:
I also am not sure why you're fielding 3-4 Imagifiers. I wouldn't.
I was running 2 Imagifier, the Celestine AoF in addition to the 2+ one.
Battle Sister Squad [8 PL, 96pts]
. 7x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
Battle Sister Squad [8 PL, 96pts]
. 7x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
Battle Sister Squad [8 PL, 96pts]
. 7x Battle Sister
. Battle Sister w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Battle Sister w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
. Sister Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
+ Elites +
Imagifier [2 PL, 40pts]
Imagifier [2 PL, 40pts]
+ Fast Attack +
Dominion Squad [5 PL, 137pts]
. Dominion Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-melta
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Dominion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
+ Heavy Support +
Retributor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
Retributor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]
. Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
+ Dedicated Transport +
Sororitas Repressor [5 PL, 107pts]: Heavy flamer, Heavy flamer, Storm bolter
++ Total: [60 PL, 1000pts] ++
I see. It seems critically deficient in anti-tank capacity.
drbored wrote:I've just gotten a Sisters squad to add to my Space Marines army. Celestine along with a regular troop squad of Battle Sisters with Storm Bolters to help add some dakka.
I also have a Dominion Squad with 2 flamers and 2 meltas, along with Veridyan (so, a Canoness) but I'm wondering if it would be worth it to bring those into the force?
Dominions, yes, mechanized.
Well, more precisely, they're like Sternguard, but cheaper, with vanguard, and limited weapon choices. Sternguard do not make as good an antitank squad as Dominions, however, Space Marines also have other excellent antitank options [particularly ones with range] that we don't, so take that with a grain of salt.
drbored wrote: I've just gotten a Sisters squad to add to my Space Marines army. Celestine along with a regular troop squad of Battle Sisters with Storm Bolters to help add some dakka.
I also have a Dominion Squad with 2 flamers and 2 meltas, along with Veridyan (so, a Canoness) but I'm wondering if it would be worth it to bring those into the force?
A Dominion squad with full stormbolters is probably a nice add to any but a full gunline army. Use Vangaurd to find cover and the AoF to unleash midfield dakka. I had a squad of 5x SB Doms last the whole game on an objective last weekend. What you have is a nice Jack of all trades unit that can still break something fancy and dish out hits, but they'll need to be close to be effective and they aren't mech'd up. Great that you're adding a Troop to Celestine!
drbored wrote: I've just gotten a Sisters squad to add to my Space Marines army. Celestine along with a regular troop squad of Battle Sisters with Storm Bolters to help add some dakka.
I also have a Dominion Squad with 2 flamers and 2 meltas, along with Veridyan (so, a Canoness) but I'm wondering if it would be worth it to bring those into the force?
A Dominion squad with full stormbolters is probably a nice add to any but a full gunline army. Use Vangaurd to find cover and the AoF to unleash midfield dakka. I had a squad of 5x SB Doms last the whole game on an objective last weekend. What you have is a nice Jack of all trades unit that can still break something fancy and dish out hits, but they'll need to be close to be effective and they aren't mech'd up. Great that you're adding a Troop to Celestine!
Only trouble is getting the extra Storm Bolters. I'll only have two models, and the individual Storm Bolter models are sold out... I'll effectively have 2 Storm Bolters, 2 Flamers, and 2 Melta Guns to play with, which isn't great since it mixes up the weapons in a squad...
drbored wrote: I've just gotten a Sisters squad to add to my Space Marines army. Celestine along with a regular troop squad of Battle Sisters with Storm Bolters to help add some dakka.
I also have a Dominion Squad with 2 flamers and 2 meltas, along with Veridyan (so, a Canoness) but I'm wondering if it would be worth it to bring those into the force?
A Dominion squad with full stormbolters is probably a nice add to any but a full gunline army. Use Vangaurd to find cover and the AoF to unleash midfield dakka. I had a squad of 5x SB Doms last the whole game on an objective last weekend. What you have is a nice Jack of all trades unit that can still break something fancy and dish out hits, but they'll need to be close to be effective and they aren't mech'd up. Great that you're adding a Troop to Celestine!
Only trouble is getting the extra Storm Bolters. I'll only have two models, and the individual Storm Bolter models are sold out... I'll effectively have 2 Storm Bolters, 2 Flamers, and 2 Melta Guns to play with, which isn't great since it mixes up the weapons in a squad...
Im the opposite lol, i have like 20 SB ones and only 4 Melta and 4 Flamers :(
WhiteListedUser wrote: So as i heared sisters are a lot better this edition, but would you say that sisters are Over Powered in comparison to the other armys ? My friends and I all started fresh this edition so we are pretty unexperienced wenn it comes to playing, but i manage to win 99% of my games at an Point level from 500pts to 1000pts.
They all hate playing against sisters, saying "they are to cheap for what they bring" and " 4 AoF`s a Turn is stupid", but all hate Celestine the most.
I think you guys have more practice then we do, so i just want to ask.
Sisters of Battle do well in 500-1000pt games, but scale very poorly at high values due to the fact that you get one free Act of Faith, but everything after the first taste costs a little extra. Let's say you have one unit of Sisters, and that's your entire army. (Or two units, if one of them is Celestine.) 100% of your army can either move twice, shoot twice, fight twice, or regenerate a model. The effectiveness of that one unit is increased by a good 50%, or even wholly doubled if it's a stationary fire base like Retributors.
Now let's say that you have five units - Celestine and four others. 40% of your army can use those abilities. Now let's say you take a Brigade. Even if you take Celestine and all three of your mandatory Elites choices are Simalcrum Imperialus bearers, you're only getting an average of 3.5 Acts of Faith to your 18+ units. That's less than 20% of your army.
Even with that in mind, though... No, Sisters of Battle are not overpowered. They're too limited on options and bound to certain, specific builds to be overpowered. If you have lots of good AP at medium strength, you can kill them all really easily.
I can attest that Primaris Marines are amazing against Sisters. Massed S4-5 with AP -1 just shreds them.
WhiteListedUser wrote: So as i heared sisters are a lot better this edition, but would you say that sisters are Over Powered in comparison to the other armys ?
My friends and I all started fresh this edition so we are pretty unexperienced wenn it comes to playing, but i manage to win 99% of my games at an
Point level from 500pts to 1000pts.
They all hate playing against sisters, saying "they are to cheap for what they bring" and " 4 AoF`s a Turn is stupid", but all hate Celestine the most.
I think you guys have more practice then we do, so i just want to ask.
Sisters of Battle do well in 500-1000pt games, but scale very poorly at high values due to the fact that you get one free Act of Faith, but everything after the first taste costs a little extra.
Let's say you have one unit of Sisters, and that's your entire army. (Or two units, if one of them is Celestine.)
100% of your army can either move twice, shoot twice, fight twice, or regenerate a model. The effectiveness of that one unit is increased by a good 50%, or even wholly doubled if it's a stationary fire base like Retributors.
Now let's say that you have five units - Celestine and four others.
40% of your army can use those abilities.
Now let's say you take a Brigade. Even if you take Celestine and all three of your mandatory Elites choices are Simalcrum Imperialus bearers, you're only getting an average of 3.5 Acts of Faith to your 18+ units. That's less than 20% of your army.
Even with that in mind, though... No, Sisters of Battle are not overpowered. They're too limited on options and bound to certain, specific builds to be overpowered. If you have lots of good AP at medium strength, you can kill them all really easily.
I can attest that Primaris Marines are amazing against Sisters. Massed S4-5 with AP -1 just shreds them.
WhiteListedUser wrote: So as i heared sisters are a lot better this edition, but would you say that sisters are Over Powered in comparison to the other armys ?
My friends and I all started fresh this edition so we are pretty unexperienced wenn it comes to playing, but i manage to win 99% of my games at an
Point level from 500pts to 1000pts.
They all hate playing against sisters, saying "they are to cheap for what they bring" and " 4 AoF`s a Turn is stupid", but all hate Celestine the most.
I think you guys have more practice then we do, so i just want to ask.
Sisters of Battle do well in 500-1000pt games, but scale very poorly at high values due to the fact that you get one free Act of Faith, but everything after the first taste costs a little extra.
Let's say you have one unit of Sisters, and that's your entire army. (Or two units, if one of them is Celestine.)
100% of your army can either move twice, shoot twice, fight twice, or regenerate a model. The effectiveness of that one unit is increased by a good 50%, or even wholly doubled if it's a stationary fire base like Retributors.
Now let's say that you have five units - Celestine and four others.
40% of your army can use those abilities.
Now let's say you take a Brigade. Even if you take Celestine and all three of your mandatory Elites choices are Simalcrum Imperialus bearers, you're only getting an average of 3.5 Acts of Faith to your 18+ units. That's less than 20% of your army.
Even with that in mind, though... No, Sisters of Battle are not overpowered. They're too limited on options and bound to certain, specific builds to be overpowered. If you have lots of good AP at medium strength, you can kill them all really easily.
I can attest that Primaris Marines are amazing against Sisters. Massed S4-5 with AP -1 just shreds them.
Really? Hot pocket marines aren't as good as Razorbacks and Leviathans, and have a tendency to die very easily. Hellblasters, and Incestors to a lesser degree, and really the only Primaris units I've actually even thought about as far as countering goes.
Not when you have 50+ bits that can be used for the same purpose....... and not when i want to covert many of them, why spend 20+ dollars when i have the bits?
Not when you have 50+ bits that can be used for the same purpose....... and not when i want to covert many of them, why spend 20+ dollars when i have the bits?
Well, if you have the bits, why would you even be looking?
It's a reasonable price for someone who needs them.
Not when you have 50+ bits that can be used for the same purpose....... and not when i want to covert many of them, why spend 20+ dollars when i have the bits?
Well, if you have the bits, why would you even be looking?
It's a reasonable price for someone who needs them.
Didnt say i was looking for bits.... i have large amounts of Flamers and Melta bits, i could use some bits for HB's but thats it and i have friends with those that are giving me a few.....
Not when you have 50+ bits that can be used for the same purpose....... and not when i want to covert many of them, why spend 20+ dollars when i have the bits?
Well, if you have the bits, why would you even be looking?
It's a reasonable price for someone who needs them.
Didnt say i was looking for bits.... i have large amounts of Flamers and Melta bits, i could use some bits for HB's but thats it and i have friends with those that are giving me a few.....
So why comment then? For those of us who need more meltas, it's a great deal. As for HB, I've posted in this thread how I converted a ton of them for my army.
Not when you have 50+ bits that can be used for the same purpose....... and not when i want to covert many of them, why spend 20+ dollars when i have the bits?
Well, if you have the bits, why would you even be looking?
It's a reasonable price for someone who needs them.
Didnt say i was looking for bits.... i have large amounts of Flamers and Melta bits, i could use some bits for HB's but thats it and i have friends with those that are giving me a few.....
So why comment then? For those of us who need more meltas, it's a great deal. As for HB, I've posted in this thread how I converted a ton of them for my army.
B.c he quoted me
Bc i think its overpriced anyways
Bc i wanted to say my 0.02c
Why do you get your 0.02c and i dont?
The guy you replied to and the reply I quoted didn't quote you. If you were replying to someone else, try quoting them instead. Whatever, man. Enjoy your day.
Speaking of melta. Bought as squad of seraphim to go along with the odd couple i got off of ebay and had to convert me some of them there Inferno Pistols.
Pretty simple process. cut the barrel and clip off the pistol then smooth down the side. Hack up a melta gun for the barrel and power thing on the side.
Spoiler:
Glue it all together....
Spoiler:
Mug shot of the Seraphim, Inferno pistols are on the right.
I picked up 5 Blood Angels inferno pistols off eBay and cut the hand flamers off two Seraphim. It was an easy conversion, but they are a tiny bit too large for "realism". For regular melta sisters I took the bolter girl holding the grenade and switched her gun out (very easy, sometimes leaves a spot on her cloak that needs touching up) and the girl who has her rifle shouldered. (Slightly tougher, requires a bit more care.) All you really need is a good set of clippers and some files.
Not when you have 50+ bits that can be used for the same purpose....... and not when i want to covert many of them, why spend 20+ dollars when i have the bits?
Well, if you have the bits, why would you even be looking?
It's a reasonable price for someone who needs them.
Not when you have 50+ bits that can be used for the same purpose....... and not when i want to covert many of them, why spend 20+ dollars when i have the bits?
Well, if you have the bits, why would you even be looking?
It's a reasonable price for someone who needs them.
Precisely. As a price goes, $1 is very fair.
Didnt say it was a bad price, i only said something b.c someone suggested it to me and i was just showing idont need them lol.
Played in a local tourney this past weekend with a new list I'd been tinkering with. Went 3 wins in 3 games. It was not a very competitive setting but think this list could do well for a larger tournament. See what you think. 1999 pts
Amishprn86 wrote: How did the 2 meltas/3SB in your doms do? Did you like them like that?
Why didnt you just do 3 units of Meltas and 3 units of SB's?
They did very good for me, the trick is you can split fire now, so if I needed to shoot at a high-T unit I could do that with my meltas while shooting the stormbolters at regular troops. This list has to get close to your opponent but the Repressors protection make it a lot more doable than foot slogging.
The reason I don't split units into all-meltas and all-SBs is target priority. Any opponent with lots of tough models will target the meltas and wipe them out first. With 12 meltas in 6 units it's a lot harder to wipe them out. I don't use AoFs on my small squads typically so that is not part of my list building strategy.
Looks fairly competitive and better for hordes than tanks. Repressor Sisters are pretty competitive in what is rapidly becoming our one good build. What kind of opposition did you see?
Captain Joystick wrote: For those of you who were (like me) waiting impatiently for it, the storm bolter sister is back in stock.
Thanks for the heads up! $60 later I'm on my way towards completed second units of HB Rets and SB Doms to supplement the excellent output of the ones I've already got .
Looks fairly competitive and better for hordes than tanks. Repressor Sisters are pretty competitive in what is rapidly becoming our one good build. What kind of opposition did you see?
Correct- it was easier playing against massed infantry than against the more elite armored armies. I had a Guard opponent with two Conscript blobs which stuck around because of the Comissar, but disintegrated to massed fire and flaming. That force had a Shadowsword that was wreaking havoc on my Repressors but it could only take out one at a time. I left it alone as I had no desire to get my Seraphim close to it and it was screened heavily so couldn't get my meltas there.
My second opponent was a Guilliman gun line. I struck first and was able to get into his lines for massed fire effect. Guilliman wrecked me hard but I played to the mission and won handily.
Third opponent was Grey Knights smite spam light. Again played to the mission and won.
Two take aways----
Celestine has great defense with her Geminae and the 2+ save, but it does nothing to stop Smite from killing her rather handily.
Without the Exorcist there is no long range anti-tank in a pure Sisters force (except flying melta Seraphim). Heavy screens will protect vulnerable armor and there is little that can be done. Playing to the mission and pulverizing everything else was my MO.
Some great insights. Of course, with the Exorcist as unreliable as it is, I see focusing on the mission being the better thing to do. With Acts of Faith and a lot of vehicles, you can get to the objectives before your opponent, and if they want to put their vehicles in a better firing position, that generally means sacrificing some of their screen.
How are you guys running Seraphim squads? I have seen more than a couple lists that show them running 8-sister squads, which seemed like an odd number to choose vs the standard 5 or 10.
4x Inferno pistols also seemed to be the often-chosen upgrade, but does that mean people usually start them on the table instead of deepstriking them? As the inferno's are useless on a deepstrike turn
Niiru wrote: How are you guys running Seraphim squads? I have seen more than a couple lists that show them running 8-sister squads, which seemed like an odd number to choose vs the standard 5 or 10.
4x Inferno pistols also seemed to be the often-chosen upgrade, but does that mean people usually start them on the table instead of deepstriking them? As the inferno's are useless on a deepstrike turn
My current list is 5x 2 BP, 2x 2 IP, 1x PP/BP Superior. If there isn't a viable target within 30", I'll deepstrike them. But then only if I know they'll be completely out of site for targeting for a turn. They are usually my last unit to deploy.
Niiru wrote: How are you guys running Seraphim squads? I have seen more than a couple lists that show them running 8-sister squads, which seemed like an odd number to choose vs the standard 5 or 10.
4x Inferno pistols also seemed to be the often-chosen upgrade, but does that mean people usually start them on the table instead of deepstriking them? As the inferno's are useless on a deepstrike turn
My current list is 5x 2 BP, 2x 2 IP, 1x PP/BP Superior. If there isn't a viable target within 30", I'll deepstrike them. But then only if I know they'll be completely out of site for targeting for a turn. They are usually my last unit to deploy.
How are Seraphim used? I assume you try and get them into combat against specific targets?
I'm still new to the 8th rules, but isn't 30" a bit optimistic? 12" + (average rolls of) 3" + 6" so 21" seems more realistic, unless you plan to use an act of faith on them for a double move (which personally I would be, but I didn't know what others do with their acts of faith).
Seraphim really just hide in combat. Inferno Pistol Seras are meant to move forward and double or single tap into nasty units. Then assault to hide in hand to hand until next turn.
What do you make of Crusaders? I'm planning on running a squad of ten in a rhino to jam straight down the throat of the enemy and tie up something important - with a 3++ they're going to ignore about two-thirds of all the wounds they recieve, and since they get Acts of Faith, if the combat lasts for a whole battleround and comes back to me, they can use The Passion to squish the enemy and get ready to hit someone else. For the price they seem excellent as an additional choppy option.
jbeil wrote: What do you make of Crusaders? I'm planning on running a squad of ten in a rhino to jam straight down the throat of the enemy and tie up something important - with a 3++ they're going to ignore about two-thirds of all the wounds they recieve, and since they get Acts of Faith, if the combat lasts for a whole battleround and comes back to me, they can use The Passion to squish the enemy and get ready to hit someone else. For the price they seem excellent as an additional choppy option.
And they now seem to get access to Imperial Guard things, as they are apparently gaining the Astra Militarium keyword.
I have been toying with putting a squad of 10 into a valkyrie, with a priest and a primaris psyker.
They can also seem to use the stratagem which gives them +1 to the saving throws. So 2+ invulnerable saves and 3 power sword attacks each.
Actually with the psyker, they would have 1+ invulnerable saves, but I believe 1's always fail even with modifiers? Still means if the opponent attacks with any AP-1 weapons you can just ignore them.
@niiru
The reason most people take fewer than 10 Seraphim, and as you mentioned it's typically 8, is twofold: 1. points, since 8 will do what 10 can do and provide enough ablative wounds for the heavy pistols to do their work, and 2. If they lose enough models and fail a morale test you will lose extra models regardless, so it's better to keep the squad smaller as far as morale tests go.
Inferno pistols are the go- to weapon for Seraphim due to the need for more melta. Seraphim usually accompany Celestine and use an AoF for rapid movement to get into melta range.
@jbeil
Crusaders are not the most competitive unit but if you need an assault force they are not a bad option.
Did everyone notice in the new FAQ the Knights' Thermal Cannons got a nice bump from Heavy D3 to Heavy D6, I just hate they don't take the initiative to do the same for our poor Exorcist missile launcher!! I want to love the Exorcist and they beg me to bring them off the shelf and include them in my games, I just can't see myself bringing 160 points of fail in my list for one of them. I have a feeling once we get our Codex they'll bring the gun in line with reality.
davidgr33n wrote: @niiru
The reason most people take fewer than 10 Seraphim, and as you mentioned it's typically 8, is twofold: 1. points, since 8 will do what 10 can do and provide enough ablative wounds for the heavy pistols to do their work, and 2. If they lose enough models and fail a morale test you will lose extra models regardless, so it's better to keep the squad smaller as far as morale tests go.
Inferno pistols are the go- to weapon for Seraphim due to the need for more melta. Seraphim usually accompany Celestine and use an AoF for rapid movement to get into melta range.
@jbeil
Crusaders are not the most competitive unit but if you need an assault force they are not a bad option.
Did everyone notice in the new FAQ the Knights' Thermal Cannons got a nice bump from Heavy D3 to Heavy D6, I just hate they don't take the initiative to do the same for our poor Exorcist missile launcher!! I want to love the Exorcist and they beg me to bring them off the shelf and include them in my games, I just can't see myself bringing 160 points of fail in my list for one of them. I have a feeling once we get our Codex they'll bring the gun in line with reality.
The Leman Russ is being reduced in cost by 10 points and getting 2d6 shots, so I'd expect at lest some change to the Exorcist.
The fact that the Leman Russ will still probably be bad notwithstanding, it would at least be an attempt.
davidgr33n wrote: @niiru
The reason most people take fewer than 10 Seraphim, and as you mentioned it's typically 8, is twofold: 1. points, since 8 will do what 10 can do and provide enough ablative wounds for the heavy pistols to do their work, and 2. If they lose enough models and fail a morale test you will lose extra models regardless, so it's better to keep the squad smaller as far as morale tests go.
Inferno pistols are the go- to weapon for Seraphim due to the need for more melta. Seraphim usually accompany Celestine and use an AoF for rapid movement to get into melta range.
@jbeil
Crusaders are not the most competitive unit but if you need an assault force they are not a bad option.
Did everyone notice in the new FAQ the Knights' Thermal Cannons got a nice bump from Heavy D3 to Heavy D6, I just hate they don't take the initiative to do the same for our poor Exorcist missile launcher!! I want to love the Exorcist and they beg me to bring them off the shelf and include them in my games, I just can't see myself bringing 160 points of fail in my list for one of them. I have a feeling once we get our Codex they'll bring the gun in line with reality.
The Leman Russ is being reduced in cost by 10 points and getting 2d6 shots, so I'd expect at lest some change to the Exorcist.
The fact that the Leman Russ will still probably be bad notwithstanding, it would at least be an attempt.
Except that the Exorcist would be in a SoB specific codex, which wont be released for a long time yet more than likely.
Your only hope is if they remember it exists, and put an alteration in Chapter Approved at the end of the year. But how likely is it that GW will remember it exists?
davidgr33n wrote: @niiru
The reason most people take fewer than 10 Seraphim, and as you mentioned it's typically 8, is twofold: 1. points, since 8 will do what 10 can do and provide enough ablative wounds for the heavy pistols to do their work, and 2. If they lose enough models and fail a morale test you will lose extra models regardless, so it's better to keep the squad smaller as far as morale tests go.
Inferno pistols are the go- to weapon for Seraphim due to the need for more melta. Seraphim usually accompany Celestine and use an AoF for rapid movement to get into melta range.
@jbeil
Crusaders are not the most competitive unit but if you need an assault force they are not a bad option.
Did everyone notice in the new FAQ the Knights' Thermal Cannons got a nice bump from Heavy D3 to Heavy D6, I just hate they don't take the initiative to do the same for our poor Exorcist missile launcher!! I want to love the Exorcist and they beg me to bring them off the shelf and include them in my games, I just can't see myself bringing 160 points of fail in my list for one of them. I have a feeling once we get our Codex they'll bring the gun in line with reality.
The Leman Russ is being reduced in cost by 10 points and getting 2d6 shots, so I'd expect at lest some change to the Exorcist.
The fact that the Leman Russ will still probably be bad notwithstanding, it would at least be an attempt.
Leman Russes just became great. They dropped a couple points and the different regiments give them all kinds of flavor. The only problem now is which regiment. Do you want to shoot twice, overwatch on 4+, or need to be dropped to 3 hull points before hitting mid tier?
What codexes are left? Tau, Eldar, DE, Orks, Nids, Necrons, Inquisition/Assassins, Custodes/ Silent Sisters, yea we might be waiting awhile, and with every new Dex our competitiveness gets worse.
I had a Marine player the other day complain about my Repressors, and they had all the Relics, new units, command options, etc, I kinda let it get to me and pointed out that they were complaining about one of the 3 options we have when they get 50 times the options and benefits we get.
davidgr33n wrote: What codexes are left? Tau, Eldar, DE, Orks, Nids, Necrons, Inquisition/Assassins, Custodes/ Silent Sisters, yea we might be waiting awhile, and with every new Dex our competitiveness gets worse.
I had a Marine player the other day complain about my Repressors, and they had all the Relics, new units, command options, etc, I kinda let it get to me and pointed out that they were complaining about one of the 3 options we have when they get 50 times the options and benefits we get.
I've known marine players complain about Eldar too, and even Orks can you believe.
"Omg you have that one unit that's steamrollering me right now, should be nerfed we can't do that".
Forgetting that they have more unit options than all the Xenos combined.
Though tbh that includes Sisters, as you do have a lot of *options* you can take. It's just that if you stay pure sisters you struggle.
As far as Codex releases go, I suspect Sisters will be folded into a single codex with Custodes, Silent Sisters and Inquisition. Maybe Assassins in there too. None of those need a whole codex to themselves, and it'd be easier to do a "Ministorium" or "Imperial Agents" codex and be done with it.
davidgr33n wrote: @niiru
The reason most people take fewer than 10 Seraphim, and as you mentioned it's typically 8, is twofold: 1. points, since 8 will do what 10 can do and provide enough ablative wounds for the heavy pistols to do their work, and 2. If they lose enough models and fail a morale test you will lose extra models regardless, so it's better to keep the squad smaller as far as morale tests go.
Inferno pistols are the go- to weapon for Seraphim due to the need for more melta. Seraphim usually accompany Celestine and use an AoF for rapid movement to get into melta range.
@jbeil
Crusaders are not the most competitive unit but if you need an assault force they are not a bad option.
Did everyone notice in the new FAQ the Knights' Thermal Cannons got a nice bump from Heavy D3 to Heavy D6, I just hate they don't take the initiative to do the same for our poor Exorcist missile launcher!! I want to love the Exorcist and they beg me to bring them off the shelf and include them in my games, I just can't see myself bringing 160 points of fail in my list for one of them. I have a feeling once we get our Codex they'll bring the gun in line with reality.
The Leman Russ is being reduced in cost by 10 points and getting 2d6 shots, so I'd expect at lest some change to the Exorcist.
The fact that the Leman Russ will still probably be bad notwithstanding, it would at least be an attempt.
Leman Russes just became great. They dropped a couple points and the different regiments give them all kinds of flavor. The only problem now is which regiment. Do you want to shoot twice, overwatch on 4+, or need to be dropped to 3 hull points before hitting mid tier?
I'd argue with that.
A Leman Russ Battle Tank outputs 2d6 direct fire shots at S8, AP-2 for ~150 points.
A Mancitore outputs 2d6 indirect fire shots at A10, AP-2 for 133 points.
Leman Russes have +1T and +1W. The Regimental Doctrines apply to the Manticore too, and has the whole indirect fire thing going for it.
Going back to the long range missile discussion, what are the thoughts on the Hunter-Killer missiles (HKMs), does anyone equip those on their vehicles? I am seriously considering removing my lone Geminae from my go-to list to get 8 HKMs to go on each of my vehicles. That salvo could potentially take out one or two light vehicles early game or put a dent in a Knight, and would help me better mitigate armor threats. For the points I think they are a good bargain.
Thoughts?
davidgr33n wrote: Going back to the long range missile discussion, what are the thoughts on the Hunter-Killer missiles (HKMs), does anyone equip those on their vehicles? I am seriously considering removing my lone Geminae from my go-to list to get 8 HKMs to go on each of my vehicles. That salvo could potentially take out one or two light vehicles early game or put a dent in a Knight, and would help me better mitigate armor threats. For the points I think they are a good bargain.
Thoughts?
Yes. So far, an opening salvo of H-K missiles has managed to cripple leman russes and wreck dreadnoughts, and, more importantly, crack transports.
I wouldn't trade Gemini 1 for it, but I would trade Gemini 2 for them.
davidgr33n wrote: Going back to the long range missile discussion, what are the thoughts on the Hunter-Killer missiles (HKMs), does anyone equip those on their vehicles? I am seriously considering removing my lone Geminae from my go-to list to get 8 HKMs to go on each of my vehicles. That salvo could potentially take out one or two light vehicles early game or put a dent in a Knight, and would help me better mitigate armor threats. For the points I think they are a good bargain.
Thoughts?
I have swapped Geminae 2 out for the HK's twice now, but have forgotten to use them both times. Need to get some modeled up so I remember I took them.
davidgr33n wrote: @niiru
The reason most people take fewer than 10 Seraphim, and as you mentioned it's typically 8, is twofold: 1. points, since 8 will do what 10 can do and provide enough ablative wounds for the heavy pistols to do their work, and 2. If they lose enough models and fail a morale test you will lose extra models regardless, so it's better to keep the squad smaller as far as morale tests go.
Inferno pistols are the go- to weapon for Seraphim due to the need for more melta. Seraphim usually accompany Celestine and use an AoF for rapid movement to get into melta range.
@jbeil
Crusaders are not the most competitive unit but if you need an assault force they are not a bad option.
Did everyone notice in the new FAQ the Knights' Thermal Cannons got a nice bump from Heavy D3 to Heavy D6, I just hate they don't take the initiative to do the same for our poor Exorcist missile launcher!! I want to love the Exorcist and they beg me to bring them off the shelf and include them in my games, I just can't see myself bringing 160 points of fail in my list for one of them. I have a feeling once we get our Codex they'll bring the gun in line with reality.
The Leman Russ is being reduced in cost by 10 points and getting 2d6 shots, so I'd expect at lest some change to the Exorcist.
The fact that the Leman Russ will still probably be bad notwithstanding, it would at least be an attempt.
Leman Russes just became great. They dropped a couple points and the different regiments give them all kinds of flavor. The only problem now is which regiment. Do you want to shoot twice, overwatch on 4+, or need to be dropped to 3 hull points before hitting mid tier?
I'd argue with that.
A Leman Russ Battle Tank outputs 2d6 direct fire shots at S8, AP-2 for ~150 points.
A Mancitore outputs 2d6 indirect fire shots at A10, AP-2 for 133 points.
Leman Russes have +1T and +1W. The Regimental Doctrines apply to the Manticore too, and has the whole indirect fire thing going for it.
And yes, Space Marines seem to be like that.
T8 is few and far between and goes a long way. I'm still surprised Exorcists got it. Plus, depending on regiment, the manticore could potential be out of missiles turn 2 and then useless.
So is Geminae #1 so necessary that she's better than 8 HKMs?
Also, when you have used HKMs (which I'm assuming you do 1st turn), do your vehicles stay stationary in order to get the 3+ hit, or do you move your vehicles regardless and go with 4+ to hit?
My meta is a mix of both extremes (hordes on one end and tanks at the other), so against tank heavy forces I think I'd sit still and get the 3+ to hit, possibly with my Canoness in buff range for re-rolls of 1.
davidgr33n wrote: Without the Exorcist there is no long range anti-tank in a pure Sisters force (except flying melta Seraphim). Heavy screens will protect vulnerable armor and there is little that can be done. Playing to the mission and pulverizing everything else was my MO.
I'd argue we don't have that long range anti-tank even with the Exorcist. The Exorcist is better equipped to handle heavy infantry now, tanks and MCs not so much.
Agreed, the Exorcist is a much better Hunter of men than vehicles. D3 damage doesn't take down armor efficiently but blasting devastator squads in cover is a nice utilization of the Exorcist. I hate to admit it, but if I had more squad leader models my 2 Exorcists would be traded in for more Immolators filled with BSS or Dominions.
The most effective anti tank we have is a toss up between Inferno pistol Seraphim and Dominions. My vote is the Seraphim.
I've only played one game using a Geminae, she didn't seem to do much for Celestine. In the game she took a ton of hits before finally going down, but once Celestine starts taking hits, even if the Geminae comes back next turn Celestine will keep taking them until she goes down. Offensively the Gem threw a grenade and swung her sword a few times with no results.
So why take the Gem? I want to be convinced she's worth taking.
davidgr33n wrote: I've only played one game using a Geminae, she didn't seem to do much for Celestine. In the game she took a ton of hits before finally going down, but once Celestine starts taking hits, even if the Geminae comes back next turn Celestine will keep taking them until she goes down. Offensively the Gem threw a grenade and swung her sword a few times with no results. So why take the Gem? I want to be convinced she's worth taking.
In your scenario: - Geminae dies - Celestine takes 1 wound - Geminae res'd - Celestine dies because she has to take wounds - Miraculous Intervention - Geminae Dies - Celestine takes 1 wound - Geminae Res'd - Celestine dies because she has to take wounds. - Use Spirit of the Martyr to res Celestine - Rinse - Repeat
davidgr33n wrote: I've only played one game using a Geminae, she didn't seem to do much for Celestine. In the game she took a ton of hits before finally going down, but once Celestine starts taking hits, even if the Geminae comes back next turn Celestine will keep taking them until she goes down. Offensively the Gem threw a grenade and swung her sword a few times with no results.
So why take the Gem? I want to be convinced she's worth taking.
In your scenario:
- Geminae dies
- Celestine takes 1 wound
- Geminae res'd
- Celestine dies because she has to take wounds
- Miraculous Intervention
- Geminae Dies
- Celestine takes 1 wound
- Geminae Res'd
- Celestine dies because she has to take wounds.
- Use Healing Tears to res Celestine
- Rinse
- Repeat
This... isn't how the rules work? Unless there has been an FAQ I haven't read.
Main issue being, you can't res celestine with Healing Tears, it's for Geminae only. And it can't work if Celestine is dead, because you have to res the Geminae within 2" of Celestine.
So the actual events would be:
- Geminae dies
- Celestine takes 1 wound
- Geminae res'd (With healing tears)
- Celestine dies because she has to take wounds
- Miraculous Intervention
- Geminae Dies
- Celestine takes 1 wound
- Geminae Res'd
- Celestine dies because she has to take wounds.
- Use Healing Tears to res Celestine - Geminae dies
- End
Sometimes if Celestine takes a wound or two I use Spirit of the Martyr on her to heal her to full wounds. Then her favorite meat shields can keep taking bullets for her again
davidgr33n wrote:So is Geminae #1 so necessary that she's better than 8 HKMs?
Also, when you have used HKMs (which I'm assuming you do 1st turn), do your vehicles stay stationary in order to get the 3+ hit, or do you move your vehicles regardless and go with 4+ to hit?
My meta is a mix of both extremes (hordes on one end and tanks at the other), so against tank heavy forces I think I'd sit still and get the 3+ to hit, possibly with my Canoness in buff range for re-rolls of 1.
It depends. The tanks don't have to move, since they're already in range of their primary weapons, but if I have to move them for more optimal shots or to set up something later, like a charge, then I'll go ahead and move them.
As for Gemini 1, yes. For 50 points, she adds a lot to Saint Celestine, since Celestine can heal herself back up with Spirit of the Martyr.
deviantduck wrote:
T8 is few and far between and goes a long way. I'm still surprised Exorcists got it. Plus, depending on regiment, the manticore could potential be out of missiles turn 2 and then useless.
That's not a bad thing. That means it did 4d6 S10, Ap2, Dd3 shots during the first two turns. I really like frontloaded damage.
The amount of damage you need to be able to deal decreases over the course of the game. A Manticore has a fixed potential, and the faster it's capable to doing it, the better.
Okay, I'm trying to figure out how to organize my 2000 point list. With the new AM codex, Scions gain a nice buff if they run their own detachment. That would mean passing on the Brigade and instead combining the same army I have been running into an optimal combination of detachments. I'll be down a few CP in the process...
If I do split it up, which detachments get me the most CP? How could I rearrange these units to greater advantage? This configuration gives 8 CP with about 30 points left. Or should I stick with a Brigade and 12 CP instead of Scions rolling extra hits on 6s?
Deep Strike Battalion Detachment (344, prior to codex price increase which should add 48 points)
Prime with Rod
Prime with Rod
Plasma Scions
Plasma Scions
Plasma Scions
Plasma Scions
Front Line Outrider Detachment (1081)
Celestine +1 GS Canoness, Inferno Pistol, Power Sword
Imagifier
Melta Doms
Immolator
Melta Doms
Immolator
Stormbolter Doms
Stormbolter Doms
Rhino
Penitent Engine
Okay, wait... there's another detachment if I peel off a Canoness and all the Imagifiers, right? Whatever the Elite detachment is called. So it's 9 CP, if I can bring more than 3 detachments.
Hi all, been reading for several weeks now after getting back into playing again. Thought I'd finally join.
MacPhail wrote: Okay, wait... there's another detachment if I peel off a Canoness and all the Imagifiers, right? Whatever the Elite detachment is called. So it's 9 CP, if I can bring more than 3 detachments.
You do have a Vanguard detachment there. Can I ask how you plan to use your Cannoness w/ Power Sword & Inferno Pistol? I ask because I use one in my casual games.
Lammia wrote: Hi all, been reading for several weeks now after getting back into playing again. Thought I'd finally join.
MacPhail wrote: Okay, wait... there's another detachment if I peel off a Canoness and all the Imagifiers, right? Whatever the Elite detachment is called. So it's 9 CP, if I can bring more than 3 detachments.
You do have a Vanguard detachment there. Can I ask how you plan to use your Cannoness w/ Power Sword & Inferno Pistol? I ask because I use one in my casual games.
Camp her with the rets+exorcists and wait for deepstrikers.
Lammia wrote: Hi all, been reading for several weeks now after getting back into playing again. Thought I'd finally join.
MacPhail wrote: Okay, wait... there's another detachment if I peel off a Canoness and all the Imagifiers, right? Whatever the Elite detachment is called. So it's 9 CP, if I can bring more than 3 detachments.
You do have a Vanguard detachment there. Can I ask how you plan to use your Cannoness w/ Power Sword & Inferno Pistol? I ask because I use one in my casual games.
Thanks, and welcome!
I've just started experimenting with a second Canoness tooled for close quarters and pushed forward behind the Dominions. In the past I've run her with an Imagifier in the empty seats in a Rhino with Heavy Flamer Rets. In this list they Advance on foot turn 1 while a Rhino full of 10 Stormbolters gets ready to jump out onto some midfield cover or objective. By turn 2 the rerolls are in effect for all those dice, and the Imagifier kicks in Turn 3.
The Canoness can also push past the Stormbolter Doms to support the Melta Doms. I often find I can embark one or two damaged squads after the alpha strike and run them across to another target. If she can join them the rerolls will offset their reduced numbers. Some unit of Dominions is usually in melee by turn 3, either because they're getting swept off an objective or because taking overwatch is better than getting gunned down in the open. That's where her pistol and sword will hopefully add a casualty or two while the enemy grinds away at my power armor.
Basically he failed to do anything relevant first turn and I take out 2x Flyrants and bunch of gribblies my turn one. I win 38-12.
Game Two - Knights, Magnus, and Deamon Princes
1 for 1 Kill point and Maelstrom
I actually win the roll for first turn and my opponent siezes. I decline to scout and opt to keep my Tanks near celestine for a 5++. Through an incredible stroke of luck he only manages to do 11 out of 12 wounds to repressor and kill 3 scouts. I also deny Mangus’ 3++.
My turn one I cast null zone. Take out a knight with no Invol and do decent damage to the other. With no 3++ Mangus stayed too far back to be worth going for. I manage to get ahead on maelstorm and take out enough of his army to keep kill points close. I win 38-12.
Game Three - Custodes and Robby G
End Game and Maelstrom
I lose the roll for 1st turn and fail to seize. I scout up just enough to get into melta range in my turn one but out side of charge range. Once again I somehow manage to not give up first blood despite 8x las canon shots coming at me.
My Turn one I take out a razor back for first blood, cast null zone again, and do a lot of damage to one of the land raiders. Robby g and some custodes take out a handful of tanks in return I kill the customs and finish off one of the land raider. From here on out it’s pretty much clean up. I win 37-13.
I finish day one in 5th place.
Day Two.
Game Four - Secret Maelstrom and End Game
Grey Knights/INQ
This game was a nail bitter. I lost the roll for first turn and didn’t sieze. Not having much of a choice as he was rocking 3x Las Razorbacks and a land raider I scout all the way up (Hammer and Anvil I think). I somehow once again don’t give up first blood. My Turn one I get first blood killing an acoloye. Cripple a Razor back and do 1 point of damage to another. Not a great turn. I do score something like 5x Maelstrom to his none so that was a good start.
His turn two 2x Repressors die as do 10x melta sisters from the combined shooting of and close combat of his army. My turn two I take out two razor backs, 3x Paladins, do 6 wounds to a land raider, and kill a strike squad. Celtine kills two marines in combat.
His turn three I lose another reresspor. He goes all in on trying to kill my libby who survives with one wound left. In return I take out a handful of strikes.
His turn for he begins to close in on me and takes out 2 tuaroxes, and my last repressor. In my turn I use my seraphim to pick off troops on objectives and shuffle around for turn 5, knowing chances are we most likely didn’t have time to play a 5th turn (we did however agree to roll for it and would quickly play it out if it got there).
On the bottom of five I’m up by a lot of Maelstrom but he has most of the objectives. All I have left is a priest, Celestine, my libby, 7x Acros, the rhino, and a culuexess. I shuffle around and manage to hold 2 objectives. He rolls for the game to end. It does. We tie 25-25.
Game Five - Basically Emperors Will and Maelstrom
Guard + Elysians + The saint.
This game is pretty simple. I get first turn. Barely kill 5 scouts and 14x conscripts and in return on his turn one more than 50% of my army dies.
0-50 Loss.
My take aways - Sisters are good but the first four games would have been 50-0 blow outs in my favor had I gone first. Because I didn’t have first turn and lost board control. The Scouts generally never mattered. I only took them to protect my scout move but I never had the first drop anyway. Acros are amazing if they have a target. In 3 of the games they just sat in their rhino or ran around collecting an objective or two. I could have played 250 points down and would have had a similar result. I for sure didn’t need 3x Dakka Tauroxs but 96 points is a weird number and there was nothing else I found worth taking.
I went 3-1-1 but wound up in like 30th or 40th place because of pure battle points, which was really disappointing.
Kapitan Montag wrote: Thanks Macphail!
That sort of practical tactical detail is what a tactics thread should be all about. Very useful
I like how you are using the canoness and imagifier. Would you ever use more than one imagifier?
The three I have in this list are a holdover from the Brigade list... my 3 Elites. There one for each HB Rets unit and one to Advance with the Canoness... I suspect she uses her Turn 1 AoF to move the Canoness up so the bubble catches as many Stormbolters and Meltas as possible in the alpha strike. By Turn 2 or Turn 3 at the latest she's either giving extra Shooting phases or returning wounds to Immolators or Meltas to the squads. She might be optional, but with fewer CP I think I like having more attempts at shooting twice. The ones that hold back with HBs seem really valuable... The extra rounds of T5 -1 Shooting is where most of my damage comes from.
@Rynner: do you think your Elite detachment did as well as your Sisters detachment? I am going to a local tourney this coming weekend, what would you have done differently in your games? I count 12 drops in your list, would fewer drops have made a difference with regards to going first?
I had 13 drops. No I don't think less would have mattered. I generally rolled a 2 or 3 for the roll to go first and my opponents with +1 rolled a natural 4 or 5. It would have made no difference in my case. Had I also rolled a 4 or 5 and lost the roll because of the +1 then I would say, yeah, less drops for sure. But in my experience with it made no difference.
The elite detachment really didn’t perform amazing. The stand outs of the detachment were the Libby and Culuxess. I had them to mostly deal with Magnus and Chaos (WHO WERE EVERYWHERE!). What I didn’t account for was how powerful null zone in action really is. More so when your opponent has a -2 to try to deny it. I didn’t cast it on day two because I didn’t need it but on day 1 I cast it successfully 8 out of 9 times to take out knights, keep Robby G away, and just cause my opponent to pick up big bugs. At the worst it's a deterrent and at best it's crippling.
Like I said the Acros, Priest, and the Rhino mostly did nothing. I could have not even deployed them and maybe wound up with 6 less battle points at most. They are great if you can get them there but my Repressors and the saint mostly delt with trash mobs (conscripts, brims, etc…) quicker than the acros could get there. Being that the Repressors were usually in heavy flamer range by the time they fired they were putting 32 shots s4 shots + 4d6 shots, that, along with them charging in, was usually enough.
The scouts could have made a huge difference had I gone against a true Robby G gun line but I didn’t. They are the one unit I took knowing that in most cases they would be a waste of 55 points but when I needed them they would be worth 10x their cost.
As the for Taruox’s - 3 is way too much and I will for sure be dropping one once I figure out what to replace it with. On a whole they performed about how I expected them to. The main issue though was deployment. You generally want all your tanks on the line so everything can move up pregame/turn 1 as needed. Well 8x Tanks (4x Repressors, 1x Rhino, and 3x Tauroxs) plus Celestine creates quite a road block and I found that between terrain and my own tanks they usually didn’t have great lines of site or shots and would up only really firing turns 2 or 3. They were helpful to pick off stranglers turn 2 or 3 but by then it was just icing on the cake. I’d like to try to replace them with Ravengaurd Aggressors but I’d have to really rework my list detachment wise. Well see if I do it. If I do I'll post my list.
To answer your main question - No the elite detachment didn’t perform as well as my sisters one. However its there mostly for support and to cover holes in my sisters detachment and it did that quite well. I never felt out listed really or at least I always had a way to deal with anything that was thrown at me.
If Elysian drop troops and guard were fairly coasted then game 5 would have been way closer. In fact had I played cagey turns 1-2 I might haven been able to win that one. It wouldn’t have been a huge win, maybe 1-2 points but never the less.
In terms of games played and mistakes made -
The one major mistake I would make throughout the event was staying too close (Multi Charges, and the electric slide). It didn’t matter in most cases but it could have. I need to get better at preventing my units from getting multi charged and locked up from shooting.
Game 1 - Nothing really major other than letting a multi charge happen that I shouldn’t have.
Game 2 - Staying too close in deployment could have really bit me had my opponent charged forward with Magnus. He could have tied up most of my army/taken out 2-3 tanks turn 1 alone.
Game 3 - Other than keeping things too close to each other a lot of the time, no.
Game 4 - I really underestimated Grey Knights close combat potential. If they can get close they they’ll shred most things. My opponent made me pay for keeping my tanks too close with some devastating multi charges.
Game 5 - This one is a toss up. As I said before I could have played cagey (I.E. wait out the drop while eating manticore/wyvern fire) and probably won but I would be giving up board control for at least 2-3 turns.
Thanks for the insights, sounds like you did well up to the last battle. Guard are tough to deal with as their new Codex gives them a lot of flexibility we don't have ATM.
I had also wondered why bring SM Scouts in your detachment, but you answered that question.
My list is heavy mech (8 Repressors) launching forward with Doms and BSS, so getting close (8" average) is necessary- I totally get being multi charged and it is something I'm learning to deal with as well.
At least when I go first, I have taken to following up my Dom rush with Repressor charges against those units that I don't want shooting at me. It can get messy, sometimes your opponent will fall back or sonetimes not. It leaves you the option of dropping off your Doms out the back on turn two while you have the Repressor fall back opening up those targets to concentrated fire. Situational sure, but it has its uses, and few players have been able to recover once half their force is removed from the table by turn two.
Repressor passengers only care if they or the Repressor moved last movement phase, they ignore all other restrictions. I wouldn't expect that to last, as currently the Repressor is using the rules typically found on SHVs and not those typically found on standard Transports.
Who knows what they mean. It’s the only none open topped transport with firing ports in the game. They could very well mean for the rules on it to work as it does.
@dracpanzer - that has been my tactic as well, charging units I don't want shooting at me with my Repressors.
@Rynner - but I did not know that units shooting out of the Repressor could shoot even when the vehicle falls back. That is nice as it keeps the girls safe even if the vehicle itself cannot shoot. Just curious, how are you getting to that conclusion.
It doesn’t say you can’t. Every other open topped type transport says exactly what happens to the models inside when the tank does something. The repressor says nothing about combat, only that they could as having moved.
I charge everything I can with repressors. I try to get them tied up in combat so the tanks can't be shot at and the ladies inside can blast away at everything in 12". Plus, you shoot and damage 1 unit, then charge another. The charged unit has to fall back next turn so the rest of his army can shoot at the repressors. Do this with a few repressors and you pretty much knock out a ton of units from doing anything on their turn.
I had an idea for my next tournament but I think it might be over the top, let me know what you think:
Guilliman
Celestine with 1x Geminae
7 squads of: 5 Dominions, 2 Meltaguns, 3 Stormbolters, in Repressors with a Heavy Flamer and 2 Stormbolters
10 Seraphim, 4 Inferno Pistols, plasma pistol
That's 1999 pts, 8 CP, 10 drops
The Dominions in Repressors and Celestine with the Seraphim alpha into the opponents lines with Guilliman right behind, buffing re-rolls of 1 and helping Celestine in the close combat department.
I don't know how competitive this really is or if I'd get a lot of hate for it, but it sounds fun to me.
A new season of my clubs 40k league is kicking off and this season I've gone for:
Celestine with 2 Geminae
A unit of 10 Seraphim with plasma, power sword and infernos
5 units of Dominons with 4 melta and a storm bolter.
2 units of 2 Penitent Engines.
5 Repressors with 1 heavy flamer and 2 storm bolters.
Basically the same list as i ran last season but now all the Doms are armed with melta and the Immolators have become Repressors.
The penitents did the lords work last season. They take a while to get to where they're going, but when they do they just straight up delete anything they charge at.
The penitents did the lords work last season. They take a while to get to where they're going, but when they do they just straight up delete anything they charge at.
Really glad to hear this. I've just made one a regular part of my army, part distraction carnifex, part objective sitter, part face wrecker when vehicles or characters wander too close. Struggling with travel distances, but it sure jams up a gap on a tight board nicely. I'd consider another from what I've seen so far.
davidgr33n wrote: I had an idea for my next tournament but I think it might be over the top, let me know what you think:
Guilliman
Celestine with 1x Geminae
7 squads of: 5 Dominions, 2 Meltaguns, 3 Stormbolters, in Repressors with a Heavy Flamer and 2 Stormbolters
10 Seraphim, 4 Inferno Pistols, plasma pistol
That's 1999 pts, 8 CP, 10 drops
The Dominions in Repressors and Celestine with the Seraphim alpha into the opponents lines with Guilliman right behind, buffing re-rolls of 1 and helping Celestine in the close combat department.
I don't know how competitive this really is or if I'd get a lot of hate for it, but it sounds fun to me.
Let me know how it goes. I was considering trying something like this. I just got my RG finished up and used her in a tourney this weekend with great success. The only difference is I have 2 ret squads with a canoness in a corner camping a rear objective. But with the new ITC rules rolling out now, you can pretty much send an entire army mid field and do well.
30 points buys you a free Act of Faith on a 2+ now in the Elites slot using the Crusaders from the AM dex. There is also nothing in the Crusader's version of the rules saying that a unit may only benefit once.
Therefore, if you bring, say, 6 units of AM crusaders, you can use your Army AOF on a Dominion squad after it vanguarded to move it up, Celestine's AOF to move it again (or fire with them), and then the 6 Crusader's AOF to fire their guns six times or whatever.
And then the game starts.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Least'ways until the FAQ, lol...
30 points buys you a free Act of Faith on a 2+ now in the Elites slot using the Crusaders from the AM dex. There is also nothing in the Crusader's version of the rules saying that a unit may only benefit once.
Therefore, if you bring, say, 6 units of AM crusaders, you can use your Army AOF on a Dominion squad after it vanguarded to move it up, Celestine's AOF to move it again (or fire with them), and then the 6 Crusader's AOF to fire their guns six times or whatever.
And then the game starts.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Least'ways until the FAQ, lol...
There's nothing in the rules to indicate that this is how this would work anywhere at all, please don't waste your or anyone else's time on crap like this.
30 points buys you a free Act of Faith on a 2+ now in the Elites slot using the Crusaders from the AM dex. There is also nothing in the Crusader's version of the rules saying that a unit may only benefit once.
Therefore, if you bring, say, 6 units of AM crusaders, you can use your Army AOF on a Dominion squad after it vanguarded to move it up, Celestine's AOF to move it again (or fire with them), and then the 6 Crusader's AOF to fire their guns six times or whatever.
And then the game starts.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Least'ways until the FAQ, lol...
There's nothing in the rules to indicate that this is how this would work anywhere at all, please don't waste your or anyone else's time on crap like this.
Okay, look at the Crusader entry in Codex: Imperial Guard.
It has the same wording as the army-wide Act of Faith as the Index, except that it doesn't apply to the Army; instead, each unit has the ability.
This means that (as written), you roll a d6 for each unit of Crusaders, and "on a 2+, a unit from your army with this special ability may:" and then the normal stuff they may do.
Essentially, you get to copy the Act of Faith (army-wide) special rule for however many units of Crusaders you have, rather than just doing it once.
There is no "a unit may only benefit from this rule once" wording (or anything like it) in the Crusader's rules as well.
Basically they put Acts of Faith on the unit dataslate rather than as a army rule so mutiple units of Crusaders could be argued to provide multiple AOF.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Okay, look at the Crusader entry in Codex: Imperial Guard.
It has the same wording as the army-wide Act of Faith as the Index, except that it doesn't apply to the Army; instead, each unit has the ability.
This means that (as written), you roll a d6 for each unit of Crusaders, and "on a 2+, a unit from your army with this special ability may:" and then the normal stuff they may do.
Essentially, you get to copy the Act of Faith (army-wide) special rule for however many units of Crusaders you have, rather than just doing it once.
There is no "a unit may only benefit from this rule once" wording (or anything like it) in the Crusader's rules as well.
I don't own the Imperial Guard codex, and won't until November sometime.
However, even if you can farm and stack them with IG Crusaders, that only applies to IG Crusaders. The rule has the same name, but Dominions are benefiting from the army-wide Sisters version while the Crusaders are benefiting from a different Imperial Guard version,
That being said, since it says 'with this ability', it would only work on Crusaders, so it is less useful.
You could take 4 units of Crusaders and make one of them really good though.
The only way I could see it working is taking lots of crusader squads so you get one act per unit and then tactically applying them to the most useful unit. Entertainingly enough, you could get 100 crusaders and then 500 points of something else in 2k. Your biggest limitation is going to be detachments.
Amusingly, with 12 units (1800 points) of 10, you could get 10 acts. Means you can move 2 units 36" on turn 1 and still charge.
They have Divine Guidance and can't use it. lol
They get the AM keyword so you can take commissars to protect from leadership.
As an aside, this would be a great way to fix SOB and make them pretty competitive. Give each unit with AoF a chance to generate an AoF each turn.
Wait. I think it might work like that now.
Each unit in the SOB/AM list has the Acts of Faith Special Rule independently. I always assumed that it was an army special rule and not tied to the unit and that having the AoF special rule just meant you could use it. But... If each entry references it individually, you get to roll a D6 for each SOB unit with AoF.
"ACTS OF FAITH Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns. On a roll of 2+, one unit from your army with the Acts of Faith ability can perform an Act of Faith chosen from the following list. Some abilities may allow you to use more than one Act of Faith in the same turn; when this is the case, a different unit must be chosen to perform each Act of Faith. " The index says:
"ABILITIES The following abilities are common to several Adeptus Ministorum units: ACTS OF FAITH oll a D6 at the start of each of your turns. On a roll of 2+, one unit " So the ability is unique to the unit.
So even though the ability is named the same as the SoB army wide rules, it's technically a unique ability, and since it grants the 2+ AoF to any unit in your army, aka any detachment, not just this unit, nor just the IG detachment, it could carry over to a SoB unit?
deviantduck wrote: So even though the ability is named the same as the SoB army wide rules, it's technically a unique ability, and since it grants the 2+ AoF to any unit in your army, aka any detachment, not just this unit, nor just the IG detachment, it could carry over to a SoB unit?
Sounds like FAQ/Errata bait.
The Crusader one only works on Crusaders.
The SOB one though...
It isn't named the same as the Army Wide rules, it's listed under 'Abilities' in the SOB rules, which means each unit gets it.
Hi guys! New Sisters player here after recently getting back into the hobby.
Been reading through this thread past few weeks, but thought I'd jump in and get your opinions on how best to kit out my standard BSS?
Slowly building my force. I've already got a unit of Rets (4 HB/1 SB) and two units of Doms (4 Melta/1 SB), but wasn't sure what the ideal loadout for my normal ladies should be. Only got 1 unit of 10 so far.
I saw you guys mention combi weapons a while back on this thread, and i'd sure have enjoy giving them combi-flamers. But couldn't remember what the takeaway was on best way to go. So: standard bolters, combiweapons, or saturate them with storm bolters?
I've got the parts for any of these options, so lmk your thoughts!
Sidenote - if i get around to a third Dom squad, do i need more melta or would i be better served by mixing it up and running a squad of flamer doms or stormbolter doms?
Doms are best with Melta (maybe Combi-Plasma) and/or all storm bolters.
Rets are HBx4, maybe SB.
Sisters are SBx3.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, To be clear, on the Act of Faith thing, I wouldn't build an army around it until it is FAQ'd one way or the other, which it probably will never be.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Okay, look at the Crusader entry in Codex: Imperial Guard.
It has the same wording as the army-wide Act of Faith as the Index, except that it doesn't apply to the Army; instead, each unit has the ability.
This means that (as written), you roll a d6 for each unit of Crusaders, and "on a 2+, a unit from your army with this special ability may:" and then the normal stuff they may do.
Essentially, you get to copy the Act of Faith (army-wide) special rule for however many units of Crusaders you have, rather than just doing it once.
There is no "a unit may only benefit from this rule once" wording (or anything like it) in the Crusader's rules as well.
I think I'll interject here. The rule in the IG Codex says "roll a D6 at the start of your turns. [then] on a roll of 2+ ONE UNIT from your army with this ability blah blah blah "; what I don't read is "Roll a D6 for each unit with this ability". In other words, roll 'a' (one, singular, individual, by itself) dice and apply the benefit if the dice roll is 2+. How can this be read any other way?
It's a shame when players look for ways around the reading of a rule to get some benefit. It's already bad enough Sisters have to put up with grief over our legitimate rules, let's not give other factions more fodder to hit us with.
davidgr33n wrote: It's a shame when players look for ways around the reading of a rule to get some benefit. It's already bad enough Sisters have to put up with grief over our legitimate rules, let's not give other factions more fodder to hit us with.
Always this argument. We're not trying to look for ways around the rules, we're discussing the literal interpretation of the rules. Without the studio stepping in with a faq, we literally have no way to know what they meant when they wrote it. We only have what they wrote.
pretre wrote: Right now, SB saturation is the way to go.
Doms are best with Melta (maybe Combi-Plasma) and/or all storm bolters.
Rets are HBx4, maybe SB.
Sisters are SBx3
Agreed, SBs are your most cost efficient weapon, especially for BSS.
Doms need melta but second choice goes to SBs.
With Retributors only the superior can have a a SB
pretre wrote: Right now, SB saturation is the way to go.
Doms are best with Melta (maybe Combi-Plasma) and/or all storm bolters.
Rets are HBx4, maybe SB.
Sisters are SBx3
Agreed, SBs are your most cost efficient weapon, especially for BSS.
Doms need melta but second choice goes to SBs.
With Retributors only the superior can have a a SB
I agree with this, and Rets should have HB's, the -1ap and S5 helps more than you would think.
When a rule is a property of a unit, each copy of that unit instantiates a copy of that rule into play.
Then there's the FAQ that says that a unit can only gain the benefit of a given special rule once, and additional instances have no effect.
Each time I buy a IG Crusaders unit, it puts a copy of Acts of Faith into play attached to itself. At the beginning of each turn, the ability triggers, and you roll a D6. If I have 5 Crusaders units, then each unit's copy checks for the beginning of the turn, and rolls a D6.
Then the rule targets a unit with the Acts of Faith ability for the next part. If a unit is targeted by more than one instance of the ability, only then does the FAQ kicks in and it only gains the benefits once.
I'm 90% certain this isn't intended, based on the idea that it's supposed to be identical to the Sisters of Battle special rule which instantiates one of itself per army [or at least we've been playing it that way], but as written I don't really see the logic in interpreting it alternately. However, there's precedence for using the Rule as Intended over the Rule as Written, so I don't really intend to let IG Crusaders gen multiple Acts of Faith. And for sure, because Sisters' Acts of Faith is a global ability, and IG Crusaders' Acts of Faith is a unit ability, IG Crusaders cannot proc Sisters Acts of Faith, since that would break encapsulation, probably.
I'll concede the point. GW should really get with the program and check what they're copy/pasting every time they do it.
They're looking more like the old GW every day.
Huh, this is a good point. Sisters have the rule written the same way. Each unit has the ability that says "Roll a D6, on a 2+ one unit with this ability can use an act of faith". So you should be able to roll a D6 for each unit with this ability.
Probably not how the rule was intended to work, but it's how it's written. Makes imagifiers totally useless though.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: I'm away from home right now, does the index specify that units with the AoF rule gain the full text?
Shield of Faith says that "models with the Shield of Faith ability", same for Zealot, while Acts of Faith does not.
"The following abilities are common to several Adeptus Ministorum units"
Doesn't say "models with this ability", but then it doesn't need to, as the codex entry says that they have the ability, and the description tells you what that ability is.
Like I said, it's not RAI, and you'd be pretty cheesy to play it like that, but thats just the way 40k works sometimes lol
For the record: the entry in the guard codex says you roll the dice and on a 2+ one unit in your army with the Act of Faith ability may perform an act of faith. It's pretty clear that you won't get more acts of faith if you also run a sisters detachment, or multiple small squads of crusaders. It's pretty cut and dry.
I wonder if this would work:
You can take a ministorum priest in your guard detachment as an elite. If you're warlord is guard you can give that priest a Dagger of Tu'Sakh, and keep that priest in reserve with one other infantry unit. And can place them within 6 inches of any board edge and 9 inches away from enemy models.
That infantry unit has to be the same regiment as the character holding the knife, but since the priest has no regiment rule, it can be any infantry unit. Including Arco-Flagellants.
Captain Joystick wrote: For the record: the entry in the guard codex says you roll the dice and on a 2+ one unit in your army with the Act of Faith ability may perform an act of faith. It's pretty clear that you won't get more acts of faith if you also run a sisters detachment, or multiple small squads of crusaders. It's pretty cut and dry.
Each "Acts of Faith" ability entry, gives you the ability "Acts of Faith". So if you have 3 units of crusaders, then you have 3 units with the "Acts of Faith" (AoF) ability.
Each instance of the AoF ability gives you the rule - "Roll a dice and on a 2+ one unit can perform an AoF"
So RAW, for each unit in your army with AoF, you roll a dice, and on a 2+ you can perform an AoF.
I wouldn't play it like this, and its clearly not how it's intended, but it's how the rules work. They should have named the rule for the ability something different, like "The Faithful", so it would end up something like:
THE FAITHFUL - Roll a D6, on a 2+ one unit with the Acts of Faith ability may perform an act of faith.
Means that the rule/ability doesn't end up self referencing, and recursive.
Wow. What a mess. Has anyone tried e-mailing GW about this conundrum to get clarification? FAQ means 'Frequently Asked Questions'. It won't get FAQ'd if nobody's asking.
drbored wrote: Wow. What a mess. Has anyone tried e-mailing GW about this conundrum to get clarification? FAQ means 'Frequently Asked Questions'. It won't get FAQ'd if nobody's asking.
I put it on their FB page and got the "we read it the way you do but we'll forward it to the designers for a future FAQ" standard canned answer lol.
drbored wrote: Wow. What a mess. Has anyone tried e-mailing GW about this conundrum to get clarification? FAQ means 'Frequently Asked Questions'. It won't get FAQ'd if nobody's asking.
I put it on their FB page and got the "we read it the way you do but we'll forward it to the designers for a future FAQ" standard canned answer lol.
That's progress! Now if two or three more of you guys post this on their FB page or send an e-mail, it might actually get FAQ'd. I'll send a message too.
It's clearly a RAI thing. It's just a port of the sisters of battle rule onto the cursader datasheet for the IG codex. Unless they FAQ it otherwise it's some stretchy rules lawyering to try to say every single unit of crusaders gets to roll, and then try to apply those rolls to sisters units.
cmspano wrote: It's clearly a RAI thing. It's just a port of the sisters of battle rule onto the cursader datasheet for the IG codex. Unless they FAQ it otherwise it's some stretchy rules lawyering to try to say every single unit of crusaders gets to roll, and then try to apply those rolls to sisters units.
The rule is the same in the sisters codex, and RAW works the same way. As in, for every unit of sisters, you get to roll a D6.
It's wrong, and clearly not intended, but it's the same for both.
I suspect it only got noticed because crusaders became viable for IG lists, and there's a lot more rules lawyers for IG than there are for sisters. Sisters players (being a respectable, holy sort of folk) didn't look for these kinds of loopholes
Yeah sorry my point was that my Seraphim use the 2+ act of faith most of the time and I don't have an imagifier so the Rets won't have an act of faith to use for a bit.
The 2+ save is great. 8x heavy bolters is great. You need an act of faith for it though and as I said before acts of faith don't scale great. I'd rather have 40 more points of something than an Imagifer. It's not worth paying roughly 50% of the points cost of the unit for a 50% chance it can shoot (or do anything else twice).
Rynner wrote: Yeah I thought about heavy bolters. The problem is acts of faith don't really scale well right now and I'm not sure they are better than a 3rd taurox.
Well, I won't be giving advice to add IG to your SoB in a Sisters thread. I appreciate those players who ally Sisters into their lists, I just can't do it.
It is unfortunate that right now Sisters are best as an ally. Patrol Detachment Celestine with a squad of Storm Bolter Battle Sisters and add Repressors, Immolators, or Dominions for flavor, or save the points for your main army. :/
Though I'm curious, how would people like to see Acts of Faith changed to make 2000+ point Sisters lists scale better?
I'd like to see Acts of Faith go back to the way they were set up in 3rd edition, where you had a pool of Faith points that was determined by your army selection. For those of you weren't around then, you got one to three points for every "Faithful" units in your army and you could spend them on any unit on any of the Acts that they had in the Codex. You did have to make a test for each act, and I don't want to see that come back, but it did actually scale well. My old lists tended to have 9-12 Faith Points, and it was always a tough strategic question on when to use them. There was no limit on how many you could use in a turn. You could burn a bunch early to try and hit hard fast, or save them for the late game, a bit like CP's these days.
I would personally like to see acts of faith scale per character. I.E. You have one to start and each sisters character (priest, Canoness, Celestine, etc...) give you another. Also I shouldn't have to roll for it.
Guard auto get orders. Chaos gets to attack twice (Berserkers) and marines get to auto heal your tanks. The fact that we even have to roll is really just blah at this points.
@drbored in my opinion and I think most 8th veteran Sister's players will agree with me - Sisters are about as top tier as your going to get this edition without being Chaos or Guard. They are good but are starting to show their 8th edition age.
However if repressors ever get nerfed or changed at all. Their competitiveness drops like brick in the river.
I'd like to see one per canoness, and one per three infantry units. Imagifers still do what they do if you want more. You'd have to adjust your faith pool as units die. So if you started the game with celestine, a canoness, and six infantry units, you'd have five acts of faith a turn. (1 free, one per HQ, two for six units).
Alternatively, have celestians give a free act of faith, just for them.
I'd be more inclined to take celesians if I knew each unit got an act of faith just for them. Then have the HQ all add one.
One per detachment with a 50/50 chance, plus 1 per 40 point Imagfier on a 2+, plus a reliable freebie from Celestine. That would be about double what I have now with more reliability, and would feel pretty punchy.
We're getting a bit wish list-y here, but I'd like to see our Box of Bones just give a free AoF while we roll for others.
Rynner wrote: I would personally like to see acts of faith scale per character. I.E. You have one to start and each sisters character (priest, Canoness, Celestine, etc...) give you another. Also I shouldn't have to roll for it.
Guard auto get orders. Chaos gets to attack twice (Berserkers) and marines get to auto heal your tanks. The fact that we even have to roll is really just blah at this points.
@drbored in my opinion and I think most 8th veteran Sister's players will agree with me - Sisters are about as top tier as your going to get this edition without being Chaos or Guard. They are good but are starting to show their 8th edition age.
However if repressors ever get nerfed or changed at all. Their competitiveness drops like brick in the river.
I feel Immolators are a perfectly viable alternative to Repressors. They play differently, but they are a different unit.
Sentionaut wrote:Question - do you guys spend the points on the extra Storm Bolter on your Immolation Flamer Immolators?
Yes, absolutely.
With regards to Act of Faith scaling, we need to be able to control which unit gets the benefit of each Act of Faith, and the number available per turn needs to be proportional to the number of eligible units on the board.
In the vein of wishlisting, I think a simple way to go about this would be:
Line units, like Battle Sisters, Dominions, and Retributors gets to act under an Act of Faith on a X+ at the beginning of the turn.
Elite units, like Seraphim, Repentia, and Celestians, may have a +1 to this roll.
Banner units, like Imagifiers and Seraphim, may additionally grant a +1 to all nearby units.
Leader units, like Canonesses and Saint Celestine, auto-pass one other nearby unit's attempt.
Character units, like Canonesses, Imagifiers, and Hospitallers, automatically get to use one that a nearby unit used.
drbored wrote: Though I'm curious, how would people like to see Acts of Faith changed to make 2000+ point Sisters lists scale better?
I would be fine allowing each battleforged detachment of Sisters to add a 2+ roll for an additional AoF. Allow Imagifers to purchase wargear to make them useful, still grant an AoF on a 4+ but allow you to pick from a list of aura like effects for whatever they have in their box of bones. Return Martyrdom as a rule where SoBHQ choices grant an automatic AoF every turn after they are dead. Celestians always get an AoF only they can use or have an aura buff effect for the army.
So how many Gemini have people been running with Celestine? I’ve been taking two and making her my warlord but I’m really strongly considering dropping both and making someone else my warlord.
2 seem to have the opposite effect. Unless people know they can kill her she just gets ignore and the things I need her to keep alive (Repressors) die instead.
Rynner wrote: So how many Gemini have people been running with Celestine? I’ve been taking two and making her my warlord but I’m really strongly considering dropping both and making someone else my warlord.
2 seem to have the opposite effect. Unless people know they can kill her she just gets ignore and the things I need her to keep alive (Repressors) die instead.
The general consensus in here is that taking 1 gemini is preferred over 2. 50pts for the second one is better spent elsewhere.
I just realized the new ITC missions don't have Slay the Warlord. So dropping both gemini might not be so bad. Actually the wording on the ITC Head Hunter Rule makes them more of a liability anyway.
So not playing since 6th edition, my friends have finally convinced me to start playing a few games and I am starting to get the hang of it and finding it to be pretty fun.
So I notice a few things, Repressors are great, the fact that I can shot six different weapons out of it makes it great. Like I feel I am getting the rule wrong but you can move 12 with that thing and then still fire out of it as if you just moved normally? So I could move 12, then fire my Melta, Inferno Pistol, Heavy Flamer and a bunch of bolters out of it. And it's so cheap. Oh, and it can fight in close combat as well. If it's going to get shot a lot, I just pop smoke and keep moving forward and have the passengers shot. Just seems amazing for it points cost.
The next thing I notice is Inferno pistols are great. I have killed several characters with it, sometimes in close combat by using my act of faith. I give all my sister superior and my Canoness an Inferno pistol.
Storm Bolters are great as well, I now always give my vechiles extra storm bolters when I can.
Seraphim I have not had much luck due to some bad rolling. But the fact that they can move 24 in a single turn and then hit a unit with 4 inferno pistols makes them a very valuable unit.
Though I am sure you guys probably already covered this all but I just thought I would share my 2 cents.
So just want to make sure I am getting this right, but I was thinking of maybe putting in 6 battle sisters in a repressor, with 3 repentia and a mistress. Is this actually legal?
Thinking of doing this just to give my squad a bit more of a close combat punch.
drbored wrote:Do people bother to screen Celestine with Seraphim? Is it worth it?
Sort of. I think Celestine does the screening, as it were.
Seraphim are pretty useful, especially if the enemy doesn't have an adequate perimeter.
Necrosis wrote:So just want to make sure I am getting this right, but I was thinking of maybe putting in 6 battle sisters in a repressor, with 3 repentia and a mistress. Is this actually legal?
Thinking of doing this just to give my squad a bit more of a close combat punch.
It's legal. Is it useful? I can't say. I actually tried something of the sort, and they achieved nothing. I could have seen them adding something maybe if the game had gone less well, but overall I was unimpressed.
I like the inferno pistol because it's cheaper then a melta gun and it can be used in close combat if you survive the assault. As I said with the act of faith, that is two times you can attempt to shot them with it. Inside a repressor, it is easy to get close.
Necrosis wrote: I like the inferno pistol because it's cheaper then a melta gun and it can be used in close combat if you survive the assault. As I said with the act of faith, that is two times you can attempt to shot them with it. Inside a repressor, it is easy to get close.
I have yet to be that tight on points so far in 8th. I still take the combi melta because for 9 points more you're getting twice the range and the bolter shots. More often then not, a couple rapid fire bolter shots to clear out some fodder comes in handy. Plus, at BS4+ you get the melta and the bolter shots.
So I played a few more competitive games this weekend and noticed more AM players and tanks.
As factions with codexes get their buffs, I'm wondering what is everyone's most competitive Sisters build in their current meta, and take the ideas from those builds to help others.
I personally think fully-loaded Dominions in Repressors with Celestine and accompanying Seraphim are our top tier performers. My top list- no BSS so no ObSec, but it has lots of dakka and mobility, 10 drops, 5 CP, 1999 pts
Celestine
Canoness with Stormbolter
9 squads of 5 Dominions (2 Meltaguns, 3 Stormbolters)
2 squads of 5 Dominions (5 Stormbolters)
8 Repressors (HF, 2 Stormbolters)
8 Seraphim (4 Inferno Pistols)
Totals: 55 Dominions (18 Meltaguns, 37 Stormbolters)
The Canoness rides with a 5 Stormbolter Dominion squad in a Repressor while everything else rushes forward. It's an aggressive list concentrating on picking apart the opponent.
davidgr33n wrote: So I played a few more competitive games this weekend and noticed more AM players and tanks.
As factions with codexes get their buffs, I'm wondering what is everyone's most competitive Sisters build in their current meta, and take the ideas from those builds to help others.
I personally think fully-loaded Dominions in Repressors with Celestine and accompanying Seraphim are our top tier performers. My top list- no BSS so no ObSec, but it has lots of dakka and mobility, 10 drops, 5 CP, 1999 pts
Celestine
Canoness with Stormbolter
9 squads of 5 Dominions (2 Meltaguns, 3 Stormbolters)
2 squads of 5 Dominions (5 Stormbolters)
8 Repressors (HF, 2 Stormbolters)
8 Seraphim (4 Inferno Pistols)
Totals: 55 Dominions (18 Meltaguns, 37 Stormbolters)
The Canoness rides with a 5 Stormbolter Dominion squad in a Repressor while everything else rushes forward. It's an aggressive list concentrating on picking apart the opponent.
I like some Melta, i always have and always will, i also LOVE the Condemnor Boltgun and it really helps me a lot. So far im 5-0 with SoB, 1st game was Jack of all units to play test each unit, all others was this list. (I dont play them much b.c i like my Harlequins more)
So, this is probably going to sound silly to all of you, but the only reason I'm not going full ham into getting a bunch of Repressors and Dominions and all that is JUST IN CASE those rumors are true and Sisters are going to get a Jan. 2018 update. Now, if they don't, then I'll probably start getting those Repressors, even though they are FW rules.
It's impressive that Sisters can do so well with literally three kinds of weapons. Storm Bolters, Heavy Flamers, and Melta Guns.
drbored wrote: So, this is probably going to sound silly to all of you, but the only reason I'm not going full ham into getting a bunch of Repressors and Dominions and all that is JUST IN CASE those rumors are true and Sisters are going to get a Jan. 2018 update. Now, if they don't, then I'll probably start getting those Repressors, even though they are FW rules.
I wouldn't wait for anything in particular on sisters. I've been playing them for almost 20 years now and waiting for new models has never been a good idea.
It's impressive that Sisters can do so well with literally three kinds of weapons. Storm Bolters, Heavy Flamers, and Melta Guns.
That doesn't take into account Bolters, Bolt Pistols and Inferno Pistols.
drbored wrote: So, this is probably going to sound silly to all of you, but the only reason I'm not going full ham into getting a bunch of Repressors and Dominions and all that is JUST IN CASE those rumors are true and Sisters are going to get a Jan. 2018 update. Now, if they don't, then I'll probably start getting those Repressors, even though they are FW rules.
There's no guarantee (or even a credible rumor) sisters are getting anything anytime soon.
You can always play the Repressors you build as Rhino's or Immolators if you build them correctly.
Being FW means that even if a new codex drops, odds are their rules won't change at all.
Even if the codex drops in a few months the sisters special weapons won't be unusable. If you look at the codex updates from the indexes, other than some points adjustments and adding rules, units have mostly stayed the same.
In terms of competitive lists, heres what I'm debating running at Dragon Fall:
davidgr33n wrote: So I played a few more competitive games this weekend and noticed more AM players and tanks.
As factions with codexes get their buffs, I'm wondering what is everyone's most competitive Sisters build in their current meta, and take the ideas from those builds to help others.
I personally think fully-loaded Dominions in Repressors with Celestine and accompanying Seraphim are our top tier performers. My top list- no BSS so no ObSec, but it has lots of dakka and mobility, 10 drops, 5 CP, 1999 pts
Celestine
Canoness with Stormbolter
9 squads of 5 Dominions (2 Meltaguns, 3 Stormbolters)
2 squads of 5 Dominions (5 Stormbolters)
8 Repressors (HF, 2 Stormbolters)
8 Seraphim (4 Inferno Pistols)
Totals: 55 Dominions (18 Meltaguns, 37 Stormbolters)
The Canoness rides with a 5 Stormbolter Dominion squad in a Repressor while everything else rushes forward. It's an aggressive list concentrating on picking apart the opponent.
What's your top builds?
No forge world permitted in my local league, but I ran the following 75PL list in my local league, and placed first:
However, this was back in August. I haven't played any matches since September.
The Penitent Engine only achieved the destruction of a Land Raider in all the games I player. The Exorcist's total contribution was sitting on my backfield objective. The Immolator tanks were very valuable, and did quite a bit, from capturing objectives to locking things in close combat.
drbored wrote: Seeing as Forgeworld no longer sells the Repressor at all, I'm finding myself in a bit of a bind.
Does anyone have pics of conversions they've done? I know there's that one guy with the shapeways option, but does anyone have one painted up?
Just need a rhino with a dozer blade, stormbolter and a heavy flamer. I built mine with city of death terrain to make a church top. The sheways stuff is great too. You would do fine just adding a 1/4" of plastic under the silhouette of sororitas rhino top too.
Zefig: I forgot to tell you, I've been spreading around the gospel of your work. I saw one in person in the local store last week.
They said it was the $40 one.
deviantduck wrote: i think the horizontal lines are the print itself. the paint doesn't look too thick on the smoke stacks.
Yeah, there is a little bit of extra prep work that needs to be done on a 3d print in order to make it smooth. Actually, that print might have been one of the cheaper, unpolished materials. Overall, the paint job isn't all that hot, but it is nice to see the addons see the table.
deviantduck wrote: i think the horizontal lines are the print itself. the paint doesn't look too thick on the smoke stacks.
Yeah, there is a little bit of extra prep work that needs to be done on a 3d print in order to make it smooth. Actually, that print might have been one of the cheaper, unpolished materials. Overall, the paint job isn't all that hot, but it is nice to see the addons see the table.
I specifically asked them which one they got, and they said it was the more expensive one. But yes, I do believe the roughness is due to the lack of prep work. The monotone paint job doesn't help either. But, she's brand new to the hobby and that model is still an unfinished work in progress. I'll get some better pictures if she shows up tomorrow.
deviantduck wrote: Zefig: I forgot to tell you, I've been spreading around the gospel of your work. I saw one in person in the local store last week.
They said it was the $40 one.
Spoiler:
That's awesome to see! Thanks for sharing. I hope she's happy with the purchase.
The red/white one I posted is one of the cheaper strong and flexible plates, with a light dusting of primer and no other surface prep. I sanded it lightly afterwards and it cleaned up the finish a decent amount. Sanding before painting should work better, but I don't have another piece yet to try that on and it'll take a bit to strip this one.
I heard there's a trick you can use with acetone on 3d prints to help smooth them out, but if you mess up, you lose all the detail. I don't know if I'd be willing to put in the effort into the prepwork to make a 3d print smooth, and while I think your sculpts are fantastic, Zefig, I really wish they weren't 3d printed XD
deviantduck wrote: i think the horizontal lines are the print itself. the paint doesn't look too thick on the smoke stacks.
Yeah, there is a little bit of extra prep work that needs to be done on a 3d print in order to make it smooth. Actually, that print might have been one of the cheaper, unpolished materials. Overall, the paint job isn't all that hot, but it is nice to see the addons see the table.
I specifically asked them which one they got, and they said it was the more expensive one. But yes, I do believe the roughness is due to the lack of prep work. The monotone paint job doesn't help either. But, she's brand new to the hobby and that model is still an unfinished work in progress. I'll get some better pictures if she shows up tomorrow.
FDM printers typically use ABS or PLA filament. Acetone only works for ABS. if it's PLA it wont work.
If it's an SLA or some other form of resin printer, it probably wont work either, but you probably wont need to do much post print work on an SLA print.
Acetone vaporing is a great way to smooth ABS prints. For PLA, however, acetone smoothing does not work. ... This is a pity, since PLA is much easier to work with than ABS. We found some solutions for smoothing PLA, but most involve rather dangerous-sounding chemicals such as Tetrahydrofuran and Dichloromethane
deviantduck wrote: Zefig: I forgot to tell you, I've been spreading around the gospel of your work. I saw one in person in the local store last week.
They said it was the $40 one.
Hey that's our Repressor! I feel a bit obligated to answer some questions. It's also a work in progress, so try not to judge too harshly on the paint scheme just yet! I will admit fully that I'm not new to hobby, but I fell into a classic newbie trap: rushing work to get ready for a con. We just really wanted to test out the rules before taking it to Dragon-Fall.
The paint on the topper is somewhat thick - a coat of GW black primer followed by about 3 layers of Vallejo's glorious gold. Most of the texture left is from the print. I had hoped that a few more layers than usual would help even things out, but it still comes through a bit. I could try adding a layer of varnish on the end, but I don't think it'll make a huge difference. Hopefully once I get to doing shading and highlighting, it will draw attention away from the texture.
What I should have done is apply a thin layer of wood glue first, or used a more filling primer like Liquitex gesso. Both those things help immensely to "even out" the bumpiness/lines from the print, at least on large-scale objects. I have yet to try either on something of this scale, but the topper doesn't have very much fine detail, so I think it would work well here. I'll almost certainly be picking up another kit at some point, so I'll test it out then.
I'll post some pictures once the paint job is in a better state, and hopefully that will be a better representation of the product. In any case, you will need some plan to even out the texture from the base print.
P.S.: the Repressor is an amazing profile, and you should all try it out if you are able.
Great to see one of those in use! My regular group is still Forge World free, so here's a question...
It seems like a popular tactic is to run your Repressor into combat to tie up a dangerous shooting unit or buy time to bring more guns to bear. Obviously the dozer blade is a benefit here, and you can do it with the unit still embarked. But does it work as well with Immolators? I usually disembark turn 1 (stormbolters into cover, meltas into optimum range) and then have the option to position the Immo for a charge. Is it worth it without the dozer? How do you manage the risk of getting surrounded by a pile in and being unable to move? I often end up reembarking something before the end of the game, so I don't want my Immos to get bogged down.
It's harder to do with Immolators since they don’t have fire ports. You have to get your sisters out of the Immolators to do anything. With the repressor the tank can fall back and the guys inside don’t care.
The only draw back to repressors is that the women inside can’t act of faith and that the tank’s guns aren’t assault.
MacPhail wrote: Great to see one of those in use! My regular group is still Forge World free, so here's a question...
It seems like a popular tactic is to run your Repressor into combat to tie up a dangerous shooting unit or buy time to bring more guns to bear. Obviously the dozer blade is a benefit here, and you can do it with the unit still embarked. But does it work as well with Immolators? I usually disembark turn 1 (stormbolters into cover, meltas into optimum range) and then have the option to position the Immo for a charge. Is it worth it without the dozer? How do you manage the risk of getting surrounded by a pile in and being unable to move? I often end up reembarking something before the end of the game, so I don't want my Immos to get bogged down.
I've done it fairly successfully. Tanks are good tarpits.
I run six Repressors with SB Doms in 4, melta Doms in the rest. Then I sprinkle a couple of SB Doms in to Immolators just to get that Immolation flamer the scout rule. Celestine, Canoness for the second Vanguard and some HB Rets to put my 2+ AoF to good use.
Immo Doms are just passengers until something goes boom or unless I want to disengage the Immo and think it would be nice to shoot what it was trying to run over.
Rynner wrote: It's harder to do with Immolators since they don’t have fire ports. You have to get your sisters out of the Immolators to do anything. With the repressor the tank can fall back and the guys inside don’t care.
The only draw back to repressors is that the women inside can’t act of faith and that the tank’s guns aren’t assault.
My tanks are almost always empty after the turn 1 movement phase... the Vanguard is usually enough to give them a target.
I did almost get myself surrounded by some fast moving tzeentch demons last week. I wouldn't have been able to move or unload and there wasn't any support nearby, but I managed to weasel out. I guess there's always risk.
Thanks for the guidance on that, everyone.
Another question: I've been running Scions as Troops at 2000 points (brigade detachment) and I want to write up a pure sisters list. Any advice for running gunline infantry? My collection offers mostly flamers and heavy flamers backed by priests and Imagifiers. I'm guessing staggered rows moving up the field, taking charges, then falling back to free targets for rapid fire?
MacPhail wrote: Another question: I've been running Scions as Troops at 2000 points (brigade detachment) and I want to write up a pure sisters list. Any advice for running gunline infantry? My collection offers mostly flamers and heavy flamers backed by priests and Imagifiers. I'm guessing staggered rows moving up the field, taking charges, then falling back to free targets for rapid fire?
For a backfield, I've had pretty good success with 1 canoness, 2x Retributors, 2x Imagifers. You get to fire 12-24 heavy botlers a turn. (Statistically 16 HB) The canoness lets them reroll all the pesky 1s, and she's a really good defensive beatstick, tarpit. I assault any deep striking unit nearby to tie them up on their turn. Then on my next turn back the canoness away and fire again. I had one canoness tank an eversor an entire game. Granted the rolls went in my favor, but it still worked. When the canoness dies, you send in an imagifer to soak up 4 wounds. This way your retributors are unmolested and plugging away at whatever they want the whole time.
Also, tell your club it's not the 1950s. Civil rights have come a long way, everyone can use Forgeworld now.
MacPhail wrote: Another question: I've been running Scions as Troops at 2000 points (brigade detachment) and I want to write up a pure sisters list. Any advice for running gunline infantry? My collection offers mostly flamers and heavy flamers backed by priests and Imagifiers. I'm guessing staggered rows moving up the field, taking charges, then falling back to free targets for rapid fire?
For a backfield, I've had pretty good success with 1 canoness, 2x Retributors, 2x Imagifers. You get to fire 12-24 heavy botlers a turn. (Statistically 16 HB) The canoness lets them reroll all the pesky 1s, and she's a really good defensive beatstick, tarpit. I assault any deep striking unit nearby to tie them up on their turn. Then on my next turn back the canoness away and fire again. I had one canoness tank an eversor an entire game. Granted the rolls went in my favor, but it still worked. When the canoness dies, you send in an imagifer to soak up 4 wounds. This way your retributors are unmolested and plugging away at whatever they want the whole time.
Also, tell your club it's not the 1950s. Civil rights have come a long way, everyone can use Forgeworld now.
Ha! I'll tell my club what you said... who knows?
I just started running exactly what you describe, plus occasionally an Exorcist in between, and it's great. I've also experimented with a single unit of non-upgraded sisters to screen them against deep strikers.
My question is more what to do with infantry in the midfield as opposed to the backfield. For example, if I try to stagger a unit with flamers in front to take the charge and a unit with stormbolters behind to take advantage of the fall back move by shooting the chargers in rapid fire range the next turn, how big should the gap be? Is it dangerous to stick a priest in between? How about non-warlord Canoness support?
Most of my errors involve enemy pile ins and consolidations that cost me overwatch or a charge of my own, and if I make a list that drops an extra 30+ sisters on the table I feel like I'm extending that risk.
1x Bike Libby, Force Sword
Culuxess Assassin
7x Acros
1x Priest
1x Acolyte
1x Acolyte
Game One -
I drew an assassin list with 20ish Evisor Assasins (The ones that charge 3d6), 6x stock infantry squads, 5 guard Psyker, 2x Saber weapon’s batteries with search lights, and 6x cyber wolves.
For my relic I took the Armor Indomius (spelling?) and took storm of fire as my warlord trait. I also took Null Zone and might of heroes on my Librarian.
For secondaries I picked kill 3 units in a turn, head hunter, and reaper (kill a unit with 10 or more models, 20+ is worth 2).
I had turn one. He failed to seize. I infiltrated my Aggressors, reserved the culuxess, and the captain. I infiltrated the Aggressors away from my force to hopefully bait most of his assassins away from me. I dropped my captain near the aggressors. My turn one the Aggressors kill 40 Gaurdsmen and both saber weapon platforms to max me on Reaper and score one point for kill 3. My repressors take out all 6 lone wolves and kill a handful of gaurdsmen.
His turn one all his assassins drop in. He sends about 7 against my aggressors and captain, the rest go against the rest of my force. I was hoping to screen with my Seraphim but it didn’t keep them out enough. I auxpex scanned and killed an assassin when it came in. The Assassins charge the captain and pile into the aggressors who I think take out one of them. Celestine takes out one in combat. He kills a tank, a captain, and a handful of guys.
My turn two I fall back and take out 3ish assassins, get another point for kill 3 and max on Head Hunter. His turn two he takes out 2 tanks, my librarian, and a couple of aggressors.
From here on out I’m playing a losing game of wack a mole vs Assassins. All in all I max on secondaries (as does my opponent) and don’t manage to score many primary points as there are only so many characters I can kill a turn. It’s also impossible to stop him from controlling or contesting objectives.
Loss 25-33.
Game Two -
Orks! WAAAAGH. My opponent has something like 90-120 boys, some KFFs, 3ish weird boys, some lootas, ghaz, and assorted other stuff.
For secondaries I pick the reaper (kill a unit for 10 or more), head hunter, and kill 3 a turn for 3 points. For psychic powers I take might of heroes, psychic fortress, and smite. For relics I take the teeth of terra.
I lose the roll to go first. I don’t seize and chose not to scout. I deploy my aggressors in the cover near the center of the board. And unless my opponent rolls super hot for his runs they will have to move turn one. I also reserve my captain and culuxess. My opponent moves up and kills nothing. He does decent damage to a Repressor.
My turn one my Repressors and Rhino moves up as does Celestine. The seraphim move up cautiously. The captain drops in to support the Aggressors. The aggressors drop 20 out of 30 boys from a unit and the repressors and the guys inside drop 15ish from another.
His turn two he counter charges and takes out the Acro’s rhino and some tanks. My turn the Acros and the Aggressors drop 30-40ish models. From here on out it’s pretty much clean up.
35 - 15ish Win.
Game Three -
Guard. I draw the one person I showed my list to pre event. He had 6ish sentinels with las canons, a punisher russ, 6ish las plas guard squads, some HQs, 2x search lights 70ish ratings, as well as the drill thing, 10 man unit with shot guns, 4-6 las canon teams, and some rough riders.
Once again I infiltrate the aggressors, deep strike the captain and culuxess. I take kill 3, the reaper, and line breaker. For my psychic powers I take might of heroes, vial of time, as well the teeth of terra.
I lose the roll to go first. I scout forward and place my aggressors in a center piece of terrain.
The rough riders come in near the rhino with the acres. His first turn shooting is incredible. He kills 2x repressors and the rhino. 2 models die from the rhino being destroyed. He makes the charge with the rough riders into the acros. He kills 3, I kill 2 in return. My unit basically evaporates from moral.
I move everything up and send the seraphim off on their own to deal with the 2 scout sentinels that 30ish ratlings on my left flank. My turn 1 the aggressors take out 3 units of guardsmen and a search light. The Repressors and the guys inside take out a few things here and there. I had to spread my characters out to hold 3 objectives.
His turn turn two he kills a repressor, handful of melta gunners, and sniper fire takes out the priest. His death strike hits and with the stratagem kills 1.5 aggressors. It also puts 1 wound on the captain. My turn 2 I take out some more ratings with the seraphim and bunch more guardsmen.
His turn 3 I think Celestine dies for the first time, he kills my captain due to poor positioning on my part and kills the last tank.
I really up on points by this point but I don’t have much left and he has a lot. By now it’s just about keeping my lead and not getting tabled. By the end of the game I only have Celestine with 1 wound left and he has a handful of guardsmen, his russ, and that drill thing.
Win 28 - 21.
Game Four -
Iron Warriors? My opponent is playing a list thats super rough in ITC missions. There are no good secondaries vs it. He has 30ish cultists, a Malefic lord, 6x of the death guard mortar tanks, and 3x fire raptors.
I take might of heroes, null zone, and smite. I don’t remember what relic I took. Deployment hammer and anvil. I take big game hunter, line breaker, and recon for secondaries. I deploy as I have been normally doing with the Aggressors, captain, and Culuxess.
I once again lose the roll to go first but seize the initiative. Turn one I kill all the cultists and do some wounds here and there to his tanks. I manage to charge 4 of them.
Basically the game comes down to how much damage I can do to his tanks before charging in and tying them up while the fire raptors delete anything and everything. I wind up getting tabled turn 4 or 5.
Lose 17 - 30.
Game 5 -
Guard, again. Sigh…
He has 4x punisher russes, 3x bassiliks, 2x manticores, 60x conscripts, 5x scions with no upgrades, and bjorn.
I take the teeth of terra, and some psychic powers that don’t matter. I choose storm of fire for my warlord trait and by now you can guess how I handled my reserves. I also choose kill 3, reaper, and big game hunter.
I once again lose the roll to go first but before seizing I come to the realization that I had lost every game I went first and won every game I went second. Being that I was already 2-2 and couldn’t place top 5 I figured I might as well test this theory.
I don’t bother to try to seize and deploy the aggressors in range of both units of conscripts. I also scout up.
His turn 1 shooting is once again brutal. He kills 2ish repressors and the acro rhino. My turn 1 I act of faith a unit of dominions into a repressor, opting to save the seraphim for turn 2-3. Celestine moves up. The culuxess comes on near some conscripts on the left flank.
The aggressors delete 45 conscripts, the acros finish the job. I also take out a russ and fail all my charges with my repressors.
His turn two I lose another repressor, he brings back 30 conscripts which kill my acros and bjorn charges something.
My turn 2 I take out bjorn, 30 more conscripts, and a tank.
His turn 3 he doesn’t do much as raven guard are -1 to hit, so he needed 4s and 5s to hit and 4+s to wound. With 2+ cover I think he killed an aggressor.
My turn 3 I take out another tank and tie up a couple with celestine. The seraphim surround another so they are safe from shooting.
From here on out it’s just playing tag with the tanks to keep my guys alive.
I win 38 - 21 to go 3-2 for the event. I finish 10th.
Thoughts - between Dragon Fall and Michigan I have 100% win ratio going second and 100% lose ratio going first. I’m not sure it really means anything other than being amusing as sisters generally want to alpha strike you.
Thoughts on the army -
The Aggressors were amazing. I was hesitant to take them but given how lack luster I found Taurox’s to be I figured they couldn’t be much worse damage wise. They synergize really well sisters. They are basically mid field from the get go and given that sisters operate best from board having everything there is great. I have yet to see anything take out as many conscripts or cultists in a single turn than they did.
The Seraphim, and Celestine over performed the entire event. Maybe it was my opponents under estimating them or me playing better with them but they were all stars.
The acros did exactly what they needed to do. I felt they didn’t under or over perform which is fine my book.
The Dominions in the Repressors I felt really under performed damage wise but did about as expected board control wise.
Batallion
Greyfax
Primaris Psyker
3x BSS (5), HB 2x culexus assassin or 1 culexus and 1 callidus, (2 culexus to screen for the other characters. 1 culexus and 1 callidus is doable but not as effective, but the callidus also feths with strat on turn 1 for all those codex armies).
Super Heavy Aux
Knight Crusader, Avenger gatling cannon, heavy flamer, stormspear rocket pod, thermal cannon,
Batallion
Greyfax
Primaris Psyker
3x BSS (5), HB 2x culexus assassin or 1 culexus and 1 callidus, (2 culexus to screen for the other characters. 1 culexus and 1 callidus is doable but not as effective, but the callidus also feths with strat on turn 1 for all those codex armies).
Super Heavy Aux
Knight Crusader, Avenger Gatling Cannon, heavy flamer, stormspear rocket pod, thermal cannon,
Seems like all your bases are covered, is it 2000 point games?
I would maybe add a Rhino or some Immolators to move your Psykers and a BS squad up the field in and limit your drops.
GK purist here looking to add a small detachment of "Inquisition" to go with my boys in silver....
Currently own Celestine and her gang. Have a cannoness model plus some other random inquisition stuff. That being said how do you guys run your Cannoness? Thinking of throwing one in a Supreme Command detachment since she's cheap and has a 2+ WS/BS.
Is Celestine all she seems cracked up to be? I play a pure Paladin force with Doomglaive support so units would need to be fast and durable since getting singled out is a definite possibility.
GK purist here looking to add a small detachment of "Inquisition" to go with my boys in silver....
Currently own Celestine and her gang. Have a cannoness model plus some other random inquisition stuff. That being said how do you guys run your Cannoness? Thinking of throwing one in a Supreme Command detachment since she's cheap and has a 2+ WS/BS.
Is Celestine all she seems cracked up to be? I play a pure Paladin force with Doomglaive support so units would need to be fast and durable since getting singled out is a definite possibility.
Thanks in advance!
I generally run her with just a power weapon (the canoness). Celestine is great.
GK purist here looking to add a small detachment of "Inquisition" to go with my boys in silver....
Currently own Celestine and her gang. Have a cannoness model plus some other random inquisition stuff. That being said how do you guys run your Cannoness? Thinking of throwing one in a Supreme Command detachment since she's cheap and has a 2+ WS/BS.
Is Celestine all she seems cracked up to be? I play a pure Paladin force with Doomglaive support so units would need to be fast and durable since getting singled out is a definite possibility.
Thanks in advance!
I generally run her with just a power weapon (the canoness). Celestine is great.
It's a toss up between her and an Imperial Knight. Since I 0lay paladin heavy and the fire base of the knight is probably pretty useful.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I might knuckle under and just get a full-sponson Shadowsword as all the antitank my Sororitas ever need; do you think that works?
And how do I make it more "sororitas-y"? Thoughts?
Put a church on top
LMAO I meant rules-wise, hahaha.
OF course I put a church on top.
Rules-wise, just take a shadowsword and a bunch of lascannons. Probably a big sisters squad to bubble wrap it.
I was thinking more like, crewed by sisters, or something.
I was trying to figure out how my Minor Order got their hands on a Shadowsword - but why there aren't sisters crewmen / shield of faith / etc. Like, they got it as a gift from some planet or lord or something, and then crewed it with Bs4+ fuckwits who have no faith, lmao.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I was thinking more like, crewed by sisters, or something.
I was trying to figure out how my Minor Order got their hands on a Shadowsword - but why there aren't sisters crewmen / shield of faith / etc. Like, they got it as a gift from some planet or lord or something, and then crewed it with Bs4+ fuckwits who have no faith, lmao.
Oh, that's fluff, not rules.
I always go with Inqusition requisitioned.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You could also go with it being from the PDF of a Shrine World and decided to go on crusade with the Sisters.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I was thinking more like, crewed by sisters, or something.
I was trying to figure out how my Minor Order got their hands on a Shadowsword - but why there aren't sisters crewmen / shield of faith / etc. Like, they got it as a gift from some planet or lord or something, and then crewed it with Bs4+ fuckwits who have no faith, lmao.
Oh, that's fluff, not rules.
I always go with Inqusition requisitioned.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You could also go with it being from the PDF of a Shrine World and decided to go on crusade with the Sisters.
Well yes but I like my fluff to line up with the rules, lol.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I was thinking more like, crewed by sisters, or something.
I was trying to figure out how my Minor Order got their hands on a Shadowsword - but why there aren't sisters crewmen / shield of faith / etc. Like, they got it as a gift from some planet or lord or something, and then crewed it with Bs4+ fuckwits who have no faith, lmao.
Oh, that's fluff, not rules.
I always go with Inqusition requisitioned.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You could also go with it being from the PDF of a Shrine World and decided to go on crusade with the Sisters.
Well yes but I like my fluff to line up with the rules, lol.
Would a PDF really have a Shadowsword?
Shrine World's are a bit wacky. The Ecclesiarchy has a ridiculous amount of money and if they shrined it up, I could see it being a legit purchase.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I was thinking more like, crewed by sisters, or something.
I was trying to figure out how my Minor Order got their hands on a Shadowsword - but why there aren't sisters crewmen / shield of faith / etc. Like, they got it as a gift from some planet or lord or something, and then crewed it with Bs4+ fuckwits who have no faith, lmao.
Oh, that's fluff, not rules.
I always go with Inqusition requisitioned.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You could also go with it being from the PDF of a Shrine World and decided to go on crusade with the Sisters.
Well yes but I like my fluff to line up with the rules, lol.
Would a PDF really have a Shadowsword?
Shrine World's are a bit wacky. The Ecclesiarchy has a ridiculous amount of money and if they shrined it up, I could see it being a legit purchase.
Hmm, what sort of crew should I have out of the hatches then? I was thinking priesty types, perhaps fantasy models?
I got to play a few games this past weekend with a combined Sisters-Guard list that was both fun to play and competitive. I’ve always loved Tallarn Guard and looking at their unique Regiment abilities they are a perfect fit for a fast moving Sisters force. Allying with Guard allowed me to use some of the new Warlord traits and Relics that can make a big difference in competitive play.
Without going off-topic, Tallarn can outflank several units (including vehicles), infantry can advance and still shoot all but heavy weapons, and their vehicles can move and shoot heavy weapons at their normal BS. Here is the list I took:
<Outrider Detachment>
Celestine
9 Seraphim, 4 Inferno Pistols
(5): 5 Dominions, 5 Stormbolters, Repressors with Heavy Flamer and 2 Stormbolters
<Battalion Detachment>
Leman Russ Commander (Warlord, Old Grudges trait, Kurov’s Aquila Relic)
Exec Plasma Cannon, 2 Plasma Cannon sponsons, Lascannon, Stormbolter
Company Commander with Bolter (Dagger of Tusakh - allows 2 units to outflank)
(3) DevilDogs (Melta Cannons, Heavy Bolter)
(2) Scout Sentinels with MultiLasers
(2) Scout Sentinels with Lascannons
Special Weapons Squad with 3 plasma guns
(3) Infantry Squads, Grenade Launcher
My strategy was pretty much the same the 2 games I played:
Celestine and the Seraphims launched into the opponents’ backfield while the Doms and the Scout Sentinels (multilasers) engaged the main part of my opponent. The 3 Devildogs, the SWS, 2 Infantry Squads and the Company CO came in from a flank / table edge to take the enemy from the rear, while my Leman Russ and 2 Lascannon Sentinels (with an Infantry Squad escort) moved and fired at their heavies (Old Grudges Warlord trait allows my tank and any units within 6” to reroll wounds against a single unit).
I like the way this force plays, my “Speartip” (Sisters) hit fast with some cover from the Scout Sentinels (which move 9” pregame), the “Dagger” of Melta Hounds, plasma infantry and Infantry Squads come in from flanks and stay out of the line of Fire the first turn, while my “Mace” of plasma-loaded Leman Russ and Lascannon Sentinels hit from distance.
It’s a fast moving hard hitting force, very fun to play. I wonder how it’ll hold up in tournament play.
Anyone else using Guard to bolster our girls until we get our proper Codex?
I have been unable to wade my way back to playing my Sisters for quite a while. Lot of armies and a lot of changes so Im kindof methodically stress testing them one at a time right now.
IG seem a natural fit, ever since the 3rd Edition Witch Hunters codex, for covering their "blank" areas. So I like the idea and always have really.
I tend to play a Pure sisters army but when I do allies, its usually IG
Jancoran wrote: I tend to play a Pure sisters army but when I do allies, its usually IG
I prefer to play Pure Sisters as well, but the competitive side of me sees our girls losing steam, so until we get our Codex I’ll be allying Tallarn Guard (my go-to allies for years). To my surprise, I actually found the synergy between the Tallarn and Sisters to mesh well.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I desperately want pure sisters to work but our anti-tank just doesn't have a long enough range and I've not found a solution.
Exorcists are hardly anti-tank weapons, being d3 damage.
I think this is going to be a "hole" for Sisters for a long time, even if/when we get a codex release. The best options at the moment seem to be multi-melta Immolators or Retributors, both of which are quite expensive and get punished for moving around.
It's a lot more straightforward to just pop in an IG detachment and bring some Basilisks/Manticores/Shadowswords to shore up that weakness. So I think that's the solution for now, until the Exorcist gets a much-needed buff.
well it seems likely they should either go D6 damage or 2D6 damage, take the highest for the Exorcist. It SHOULD do severe damage. If a Basilisk can do as much as it does... the Exorcist should be accorded similar power.
oh yes... i'm 0-2 at the moment in the top bracket in my clubs league. Two hammer and anvil deployments, two games of just being kited about the the place and shot up out of range.
First game was Vs codex guard with a 9 drop russ list, 5 of them commanders. move and shoot and double shoot oh my. I actually played the same guy with an index version of more or less the same list and the power boost from the codex made a huge difference to what already felt like a strong list.
Second game vs Codex craftworld/ynnari. -1s and -2s to hit everywhere and soul burst and psychic powers to reduce saves by 1 (Celestine with a 3+/5++). So even if i advance my repressors to get some melta shots off at the things they should be shooting then i'm hitting on 5s or 6s.
Needless to say both of these games have been frustratingly one sided.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I actually have a bunch of immolator sprues (like, 5).
Let me know if you want to move one or more of those along... I could probably use some.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
davidgr33n wrote: Anyone else using Guard to bolster our girls until we get our proper Codex?
I've been loving 4x5 Scions with plasma/plasma/plasma pistol and 2x Primes as four of the six Troops in a Brigade for around 400 points (the other two units are cheap backfield objective holder / screening BSS). They're great against bikes of all sorts, multi-wound infantry generally, MEQ/TEQ, and notably Necron Quantum Shielding shenanigans that can totally stymie a melta-heavy alpha strike. I've been tooling up a pure Ministorum force as more of a philosophical exercise, but it'll be hard to see all that plasma volume shift back onto the shelf to test it out.
Both the IG and Eldar codex lost options that don't have models. So, assuming we don't get new/plastic figs, how much is going to be left of our options. Worried about: Evicerator anything (except repentia) Inferno pistol seraphim and veteran sisters Stormbolters and combi-bolters for veteran superiors and cannoness Plasma and pretty much any weapon option for priests
Both the IG and Eldar codex lost options that don't have models.
So, assuming we don't get new/plastic figs, how much is going to be left of our options.
Worried about: Evicerator anything (except repentia)
Inferno pistol seraphim and veteran sisters
Stormbolters and combi-bolters for veteran superiors and cannoness
Plasma and pretty much any weapon option for priests
Yep, the same thing happened to an extent after the WH codex. We lost jump packs for characters and a bunch of other options. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose.
Both the IG and Eldar codex lost options that don't have models.
So, assuming we don't get new/plastic figs, how much is going to be left of our options.
Worried about: Evicerator anything (except repentia)
Inferno pistol seraphim and veteran sisters
Stormbolters and combi-bolters for veteran superiors and cannoness
Plasma and pretty much any weapon option for priests
Biggest reason why I have been so happy with our Index. Codex updates don't go so well for Sisters.
Canoness still has an Eviscerator in her kit. Might not help other characters but she should keep the option.
Veteran Sisters? Celestians? Currently no difference rules wise but at this point we wouldn't be losing much.
Inferno pistols would suck to lose, maybe that would entice them to fix the hand flamer?
A stormbolter Sister could be a Superior as well, combi's could easily go, biggest reason why I have moved away from modeling them.
I run a retributor 3 heavy flamers / 1 multimelta repressor of flaming doom in my Guard list as a sort of distraction carnifex. Sucks we can't put arco's, dealt cult, priests in repressors because that's what I really want to do as a one two punch.
If I ally in anything, I bring my shadowsword, since it's big and scary [and more than a little OP] and basically is an army in and of itself, so I don't really have to care for it and it can sit there and do its thing. I've considered Scions, but then I realize that they're basically Dominions +1, so at that point I should just play Guard.
I don't usually have antitank deficiencies. I've been very pleased with my ability to neutralize vehicles. I've generally found my ability to deal with close-quarters medium and heavy infantry more of a problem. I can't kill them efficiently.
All things considered, I don't think a codex will bring anything revolutionary.
davidgr33n wrote: Looks like Chapter Approved coming out in December will have a few extras for us. Doesn’t look very exciting but we’ll see when it comes out.
Assuming its true, I love the martyrdom rule. Could be very fun, imagine taking Dialogus just to claim objectives... Nevermind Geminae getting back up the turn after giving Celestine a freebie AoF in close combat.
Relic looks great if you can take it on a Seraphim superior.
Deny is actually pretty good for a 4+ to deny buffed psyker casting.
I just hope the Eviscerator gets the powerfist treatment.
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