Rubenite wrote: No worries - good write-up and very satisfying to read!
I've posted this over in YMDC, but the wording of the 'Firing Ports' ability on the Repressor seems to suggest there could possibly be NO restrictions placed upon the embarked unit firing out. Read the rule very carefully and compare to say the Land Speed Storm or something with the 'Open-topped' ability.
It could potentially mean that units embarked in a Repressor can:
- Fire normally even if the Repressor advances (not just assault weapons, and no -1 to hit penalty for them either)
- Fire normally even if the Repressor falls back
- Fire normally even if there are enemies within 1" of the Repressor, not just pistols and not restricted to shooting the unit that is within 1".
What do you guys think? Seems OP and unfriendly but I'm struggling to get a clear alternative interpretation. The 'Open-topped' ability expressly states that any modifiers or restrictions that apply to the vehicle also apply to its embarked passengers, but no such statement is included in the Repressor's ability. Only the Heavy Weapon -1 to hit when moving is expressly mentioned. This is the same for the Baneblade variants that have Firing Decks.
That's how I've been playing it as well. There are no rule contradictions.
I've been playing the Repressor as "any restrictions and penalties that would apply to the Repressor also apply to the firing model." While it may not be RAW, I'm certain it is RAI, and it keeps people from getting mad at me.
Rubenite wrote: No worries - good write-up and very satisfying to read!
I've posted this over in YMDC, but the wording of the 'Firing Ports' ability on the Repressor seems to suggest there could possibly be NO restrictions placed upon the embarked unit firing out. Read the rule very carefully and compare to say the Land Speed Storm or something with the 'Open-topped' ability.
It could potentially mean that units embarked in a Repressor can:
- Fire normally even if the Repressor advances (not just assault weapons, and no -1 to hit penalty for them either)
- Fire normally even if the Repressor falls back
- Fire normally even if there are enemies within 1" of the Repressor, not just pistols and not restricted to shooting the unit that is within 1".
What do you guys think? Seems OP and unfriendly but I'm struggling to get a clear alternative interpretation. The 'Open-topped' ability expressly states that any modifiers or restrictions that apply to the vehicle also apply to its embarked passengers, but no such statement is included in the Repressor's ability. Only the Heavy Weapon -1 to hit when moving is expressly mentioned. This is the same for the Baneblade variants that have Firing Decks.
That's how I've been playing it as well. There are no rule contradictions.
I've been playing the Repressor as "any restrictions and penalties that would apply to the Repressor also apply to the firing model." While it may not be RAW, I'm certain it is RAI, and it keeps people from getting mad at me.
99% of my games are ITC tournies or playing with my friends using ITC rules.... for blood. I'd never short myself.
Rubenite wrote: No worries - good write-up and very satisfying to read!
I've posted this over in YMDC, but the wording of the 'Firing Ports' ability on the Repressor seems to suggest there could possibly be NO restrictions placed upon the embarked unit firing out. Read the rule very carefully and compare to say the Land Speed Storm or something with the 'Open-topped' ability.
It could potentially mean that units embarked in a Repressor can:
- Fire normally even if the Repressor advances (not just assault weapons, and no -1 to hit penalty for them either)
- Fire normally even if the Repressor falls back
- Fire normally even if there are enemies within 1" of the Repressor, not just pistols and not restricted to shooting the unit that is within 1".
What do you guys think? Seems OP and unfriendly but I'm struggling to get a clear alternative interpretation. The 'Open-topped' ability expressly states that any modifiers or restrictions that apply to the vehicle also apply to its embarked passengers, but no such statement is included in the Repressor's ability. Only the Heavy Weapon -1 to hit when moving is expressly mentioned. This is the same for the Baneblade variants that have Firing Decks.
That's how I've been playing it as well. There are no rule contradictions.
I've been playing the Repressor as "any restrictions and penalties that would apply to the Repressor also apply to the firing model." While it may not be RAW, I'm certain it is RAI, and it keeps people from getting mad at me.
That's what I have been doing too - doesn't feel quite right to play it as written (and definitely wouldn't make you popular). I'll send FW an email - you never know - may also hit up GW but ask about the Baneblade variants.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: WRT drop reduction for Canonesses and Rets, I was thinking of just up and buying each Retributor team a Immolation Flamer Immolator, or perhaps a Repressor.
I'm not sure which. The Rets could stay inside the Repressor, but the Repressor won't be able to reach with its guns, and the Canoness is going to have to get out of it to buff them anyway. A Repressor is, however, cheaper than an Immolator. The rets would jump from the Immolator, along with the Canoness, into a nice piece of cover on turn 1, and the Immolator would take off to join the Dominions on the frontline. A Repressor wouldn't inflict them with the -1 to hit penalty on turn 1 since they can shoot out of it without it moving, but it's also relegated to being a platform for an H-K missile.
I played several weeks ago with a list that didn't do as well as I had liked, so Ive changed the list around to optimize those elements that did well and still provide synergy to the rest of the force-
It seems to me to be an effective TAC list, any suggestions or ideas welcome.
Troops
5 BSS, Meltagun and Stormbolter
5 BSS, Meltagun and Stormbolter
5 BSS, Meltagun and Stormbolter
5 BSS, Meltagun and Stormbolter
5 BSS, Meltagun and Stormbolter
5 BSS, Meltagun and Stormbolter
Fast Attack
5 Doms- 2 MG, 2 SB, combiplasma, Immolator w Flamer and SB 5 Doms- 2 MG, 2 SB, combiplasma, Immolator w Flamer and SB 5 Doms- 2 MG, 2 SB, combiplasma, Immolator w Flamer and SB 5 Doms- 2 MG, 2 SB, combiplasma, Immolator w Flamer and SB 8 Seraphim- 2 with dual Inferno Pistols
Heavy Support
5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters
5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters
5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters
5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters
Basic strategy is:
Doms and Seraphim with Celestine charge forward in mutual support, taking advantage of Celestine's Beacon of Faith buff.
MSU Sisters (30) with combiplasma Canoness and 3 Astropaths push forward in support of the Celestine group.
Heavies set up a fire base with the Canoness reroll 1s buff.
Totals:
4 Immolators with Flamer
81 Sisters
3 Astropaths
16 Heavy Bolters
14 meltaguns
4 Inferno Pistols
14 stormbolters
5 combiplasmas
bolters and laspistols
It's nice to have 12 Command Points in the list. I think the list provides enough melta to deal with armor and high-T models, as well as enough dakka between the heavy bolters / Immolation Flamers / mass bolters to deal with hordes. The Astropaths can shut down some Psyker attempts, and Celestine can be a one-woman wrecking machine.
Thoughts?
Damn, 21 drops is a lot of drops. I have 9, and I consider it too many!
@Inquisitor Lord Katherine, 9 drops only?? Is that at 2000 points?? If so how what kind of list are you running???
How many drops is "average" for 2000 points Sisters lists???
Whist the above data is a small sample size (and would have no doubt been skewed by flyer spam) I'd personally say that 11 drops or less is reasonably competitive if you're really vying for the first turn. 10, 9 and 8 are most likely the crunch against anything other than Knights.
I'd say that lists of 12 or more shouldn't really worry about changing (as you'd most likely require a complete change of how your army plays) but accept that it's likely that you won't get the first turn (baring 16/30% chance of seizing) and build around that fact. As previously noted, using the Dominions Vanguard move to redeploy away from your enemy and deny their Turn 1 shenanigans can also be a very powerful play, as this move is done after the roll to seize. There isn't really another faction out there that can both alpha-strike and react to an incoming alpha-strike in nearly the same way that we can.
Whist the above data is a small sample size (and would have no doubt been skewed by flyer spam) I'd personally say that 11 drops or less is reasonably competitive if you're really vying for the first turn. 10, 9 and 8 are most likely the crunch against anything other than Knights.
I'd say that lists of 12 or more shouldn't really worry about changing (as you'd most likely require a complete change of how your army plays) but accept that it's likely that you won't get the first turn (baring 16/30% chance of seizing) and build around that fact. As previously noted, using the Dominions Vanguard move to redeploy away from your enemy and deny their Turn 1 shenanigans can also be a very powerful play, as this move is done after the roll to seize. There isn't really another faction out there that can both alpha-strike and react to an incoming alpha-strike in nearly the same way that we can.
Very eye-opening, thanks Rubenite.
I am working on a new list taking what I've learned from my previous games and have condensed it to 11 drops. It's basically stormbolters in Immolators, but it seems to work really well given Flamer Immos can move 12+d6" (in addition to their Vanguard move) and shoot 2D6 at 12" (and do so at full effect even with just 1 wound remaining).
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: WRT drop reduction for Canonesses and Rets, I was thinking of just up and buying each Retributor team a Immolation Flamer Immolator, or perhaps a Repressor.
I'm not sure which. The Rets could stay inside the Repressor, but the Repressor won't be able to reach with its guns, and the Canoness is going to have to get out of it to buff them anyway. A Repressor is, however, cheaper than an Immolator. The rets would jump from the Immolator, along with the Canoness, into a nice piece of cover on turn 1, and the Immolator would take off to join the Dominions on the frontline. A Repressor wouldn't inflict them with the -1 to hit penalty on turn 1 since they can shoot out of it without it moving, but it's also relegated to being a platform for an H-K missile.
I played several weeks ago with a list that didn't do as well as I had liked, so Ive changed the list around to optimize those elements that did well and still provide synergy to the rest of the force-
It seems to me to be an effective TAC list, any suggestions or ideas welcome.
Troops
5 BSS, Meltagun and Stormbolter
5 BSS, Meltagun and Stormbolter
5 BSS, Meltagun and Stormbolter
5 BSS, Meltagun and Stormbolter
5 BSS, Meltagun and Stormbolter
5 BSS, Meltagun and Stormbolter
Fast Attack
5 Doms- 2 MG, 2 SB, combiplasma, Immolator w Flamer and SB 5 Doms- 2 MG, 2 SB, combiplasma, Immolator w Flamer and SB 5 Doms- 2 MG, 2 SB, combiplasma, Immolator w Flamer and SB 5 Doms- 2 MG, 2 SB, combiplasma, Immolator w Flamer and SB 8 Seraphim- 2 with dual Inferno Pistols
Heavy Support
5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters
5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters
5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters
5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters
Basic strategy is:
Doms and Seraphim with Celestine charge forward in mutual support, taking advantage of Celestine's Beacon of Faith buff.
MSU Sisters (30) with combiplasma Canoness and 3 Astropaths push forward in support of the Celestine group.
Heavies set up a fire base with the Canoness reroll 1s buff.
Totals:
4 Immolators with Flamer
81 Sisters
3 Astropaths
16 Heavy Bolters
14 meltaguns
4 Inferno Pistols
14 stormbolters
5 combiplasmas
bolters and laspistols
It's nice to have 12 Command Points in the list. I think the list provides enough melta to deal with armor and high-T models, as well as enough dakka between the heavy bolters / Immolation Flamers / mass bolters to deal with hordes. The Astropaths can shut down some Psyker attempts, and Celestine can be a one-woman wrecking machine.
Thoughts?
Damn, 21 drops is a lot of drops. I have 9, and I consider it too many!
@Inquisitor Lord Katherine, 9 drops only?? Is that at 2000 points?? If so how what kind of list are you running???
How many drops is "average" for 2000 points Sisters lists???
Well, I'm looking at "improving" my list to feature more doubling-up in Repressors to keep the drop count low. At 2000, my IG has 9, a friend who plays Tyranids has 8, a chaos player yesterday had 10, and so-on, so I really do have to try to cut drops. 21 is a lot.
Rubenite wrote: No worries - good write-up and very satisfying to read!
I've posted this over in YMDC, but the wording of the 'Firing Ports' ability on the Repressor seems to suggest there could possibly be NO restrictions placed upon the embarked unit firing out. Read the rule very carefully and compare to say the Land Speed Storm or something with the 'Open-topped' ability.
It could potentially mean that units embarked in a Repressor can:
- Fire normally even if the Repressor advances (not just assault weapons, and no -1 to hit penalty for them either)
- Fire normally even if the Repressor falls back
- Fire normally even if there are enemies within 1" of the Repressor, not just pistols and not restricted to shooting the unit that is within 1".
What do you guys think? Seems OP and unfriendly but I'm struggling to get a clear alternative interpretation. The 'Open-topped' ability expressly states that any modifiers or restrictions that apply to the vehicle also apply to its embarked passengers, but no such statement is included in the Repressor's ability. Only the Heavy Weapon -1 to hit when moving is expressly mentioned. This is the same for the Baneblade variants that have Firing Decks.
That's how I've been playing it as well. There are no rule contradictions.
I've been playing the Repressor as "any restrictions and penalties that would apply to the Repressor also apply to the firing model." While it may not be RAW, I'm certain it is RAI, and it keeps people from getting mad at me.
99% of my games are ITC tournies or playing with my friends using ITC rules.... for blood. I'd never short myself.
For what it's worth, if the scan posted in the previous thread is anything to go by, RAW the penalty for movement does apply, but not for being in CQC or falling back.
In response to the person asking about drops my SoB army is at 11 (and has only gone 1st once), my Grey Knights are at 8, my Dark Angels are at 9, and my IG are... always going second.
Finally got all my Sororitas sorted and have more than I thought from my buddy.
What do you think for footsloggers? A LOT of tiny little 15 girl squads, a bunch of 10 girl squads, or a few (5 or so) 15 girl squads?
I know the 15 girl squads have morale troubles, probably. 10 seems like a good compromise but still small, and 5 just strikes me as tiny, but I know MSU is the meta.
For information, they are footslogging but I don't own any Dialoguses.
For what it's worth, if the scan posted in the previous thread is anything to go by, RAW the penalty for movement does apply, but not for being in CQC or falling back.
Which scan was this? Just the rules from the FW Index?
Unit1126PLL wrote: I had my first game this weekend with my foot sisters.
I hope my list is right:
1000Pts
Celestine with both geminae
Canoness
30 sisters with as many storm bolters as possible (in 3 squads of 10)
5 sisters with melta/combi-melta (in a Melta-Immolator)
5 seraphim
Imagifier
The game went very well. I played Dark Eldar, and the Wall 'O Bullets that the 30 sisters had was more than enough. Celestine booped their warlord, but it was really the ridiculous number of shots that they put out.
I most used my 2.5 acts of faith on movement to get the girls forwards / in position.
Well done. Canoness & Imagifier with the BSSs to provide re-rolls & extra AoFs?
I feel like the Bolter Babes are in a good place right now, probably the best place they have EVER been. That actually makes me sad, because I feel like GW will go out of their way to smack us down come Codex time.
For what it's worth, if the scan posted in the previous thread is anything to go by, RAW the penalty for movement does apply, but not for being in CQC or falling back.
Which scan was this? Just the rules from the FW Index?
Yeah. Someone posted it back towards the end of the other thread, while all the datasheets were being leaked. I think it's since been removed. It says:
Firing Ports: Up to six models embarked on the Sororitas Repressor can shoot during their Shooting phase, measuring and drawing line of sight from any point on the vehicle. Units that shoot in this manner count as having moved if they or the Sororitas Repressor moved in the preceding Movement phase.
Battlescribe also has the same text, and I assume whoever wrote the Battlescribe file also has the FW Index.
I'm on the fence about actually buying the Indecies from Forgeworld. Not that they're expensive, but if I'm going to buy a book for sake of a single model's statcard [and a book otherwise for a faction I don't like and rather not buy things for, at that], I'd like it to have cool fluff and pretty pictures. I like the Imperial Armor books, and I'd like to see them again for 8e. And, of course, since people I know who like space marines have the book, I can always look at their copy for my one unit.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I had my first game this weekend with my foot sisters.
I hope my list is right:
1000Pts
Celestine with both geminae
Canoness
30 sisters with as many storm bolters as possible (in 3 squads of 10)
5 sisters with melta/combi-melta (in a Melta-Immolator)
5 seraphim
Imagifier
The game went very well. I played Dark Eldar, and the Wall 'O Bullets that the 30 sisters had was more than enough. Celestine booped their warlord, but it was really the ridiculous number of shots that they put out.
I most used my 2.5 acts of faith on movement to get the girls forwards / in position.
Well done. Canoness & Imagifier with the BSSs to provide re-rolls & extra AoFs?
I feel like the Bolter Babes are in a good place right now, probably the best place they have EVER been. That actually makes me sad, because I feel like GW will go out of their way to smack us down come Codex time.
Yes, the Canconess and Imagifier stayed back with the sisters blob while Celestine and Seraphim and the meltagirls hunted the big stuff in a large group.
Still wondering what the best numbers to run on foot are, really.
So would it be worth sticking h.flamer or multimelta retributors in with Dom's in a repressor to get them up field via vanguard? I see folks discussing double units of 5 in repressors but haven't seen this possibility mentioned yet.
Kennizard wrote: So would it be worth sticking h.flamer or multimelta retributors in with Dom's in a repressor to get them up field via vanguard? I see folks discussing double units of 5 in repressors but haven't seen this possibility mentioned yet.
If you have non-vanguard units in the transport, it doesn't get vanguard.
Kennizard wrote: So would it be worth sticking h.flamer or multimelta retributors in with Dom's in a repressor to get them up field via vanguard? I see folks discussing double units of 5 in repressors but haven't seen this possibility mentioned yet.
Having anything other than Dominions in the transport turns off Vanguard, so no. That wouldn't work.
I am trying something new to keep my number of drops down as well as to optimize our best units.
Celestine, Warlord
Canoness, combiplasma and power maul
10 Seraphim, 2 with dual Inferno Pistols, plasma pistol
9 Fast slots: 5 Dominions with 4 Stormbolters and a meltagun, on Flamer Immolators with SBs
1999 points, 11 drops, 5 CPs (2 Outrider Detachments)
45 Dominions with 36 Stormbolters and 9 meltaguns
9 Flamer Immolators with Stormbolters
10 Seraphims, Inferno and plasma pistols
Celestine and Canoness
I have never been a fan of Repressors and feel that Immolators have a few advantages over the Repressors.
Unfortunately it is not possible to double up on Immolators thus my 11 Drops.
Also, the Canoness will have to ride and keep one Immolator stalled, but she'll catch up to aura the rest of the gunline once it deploys.
I like the Immolator Flamer as it does full 2d6 damage even when down to 1 wound.
I have 9 meltaguns spread in 9 squads, a combiplasma and 4 Inferno Pistols- is that enough to take in case I run into lists like 4 Knights?
Howdy folks, I got my test Repressor add-on printed out, fixed a few issues with it, and put it up on my store. The Polished material surface finish is a little grainy, as shown, but it's a cheaper material. It's also available in frosted ultra detail which has better resolution in the details.
The picture links to the store page.
Next up I'm planning to work on some turrets for it.
Zefig wrote: Howdy folks, I got my test Repressor add-on printed out, fixed a few issues with it, and put it up on my store. The Polished material surface finish is a little grainy, as shown, but it's a cheaper material. It's also available in frosted ultra detail which has better resolution in the details.
The picture links to the store page.
Next up I'm planning to work on some turrets for it.
Kennizard wrote: What are drops? I see everyone using that term.
Units "dropped" on the table during the Deployment phase. Less drops means you are more likely to go first and GIVE the Alpha Strike rather than take it.
"Fewer."
"What?"
"Fewer."
Regardless, First Turn Shooting Phase Alpha Strike is a big part of the current meta.
I really don't like the term. It describes something important that needs to be describes in the game, but it makes me picture models dashed on the floor. Blarg.
Zefig wrote: Howdy folks, I got my test Repressor add-on printed out, fixed a few issues with it, and put it up on my store. The Polished material surface finish is a little grainy, as shown, but it's a cheaper material. It's also available in frosted ultra detail which has better resolution in the details.
Next up I'm planning to work on some turrets for it.
Very cool, man. If I didn't have the ones I wanted, I'd totally use this.
Zefig wrote: Howdy folks, I got my test Repressor add-on printed out, fixed a few issues with it, and put it up on my store. The Polished material surface finish is a little grainy, as shown, but it's a cheaper material. It's also available in frosted ultra detail which has better resolution in the details.
The picture links to the store page.
Next up I'm planning to work on some turrets for it.
With Forgeworld always out of stock and the Chinese stores becoming impossible to find, I think that this will be my next option. Hopefully 3D printing becomes a little more affordable too, though it is already decent.
The turrets shown on your pic are the FW turret and standard rhino stuff right?
I'm assuming you will try to stay as true to these as you can? It's looking really good as it is there!
For what it's worth, if the scan posted in the previous thread is anything to go by, RAW the penalty for movement does apply, but not for being in CQC or falling back.
Which scan was this? Just the rules from the FW Index?
Yeah. Someone posted it back towards the end of the other thread, while all the datasheets were being leaked. I think it's since been removed. It says:
Firing Ports: Up to six models embarked on the Sororitas Repressor can shoot during their Shooting phase, measuring and drawing line of sight from any point on the vehicle. Units that shoot in this manner count as having moved if they or the Sororitas Repressor moved in the preceding Movement phase.
Battlescribe also has the same text, and I assume whoever wrote the Battlescribe file also has the FW Index.
I'm on the fence about actually buying the Indecies from Forgeworld. Not that they're expensive, but if I'm going to buy a book for sake of a single model's statcard [and a book otherwise for a faction I don't like and rather not buy things for, at that], I'd like it to have cool fluff and pretty pictures. I like the Imperial Armor books, and I'd like to see them again for 8e. And, of course, since people I know who like space marines have the book, I can always look at their copy for my one unit.
Also read this rule the same way, but the 3 points seem correct:
You'd get a penalty for moving, but could still fire after advancing, while falling back or within 1"... I've read a few transports allow you to fire within 1", so that's not OP.
Only the firing after advancing is a little on the stronger side, but not game-breakingly good. I don't see an issue with this when firing Flamers bolters or Melta-guns. Lascannons or snipers, maybe....
Battalion (+3CP)
HQ - Canoness with Eviscerator/BP - 67
HQ - Tempestor with Command Rod - 40
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB Â - 85
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB Â - 85
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB Â - 85
Troop - 36 Conscripts - 108
Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma - 59
Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma - 59
Elite - Eversor - 70
Elite - Callidus - 80
Elite - Imagifer - 40
Elite - Imagifer - 40
Elite - Commissar with BP/CS - 31
Elite - 4 Tempestus Scions with 4 Plasma - 64
Outrider (+1CP)
HQ - St C&1G - 200
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Combi-Plasma/BP - 133
Fast - 5 Doms with 5 SB - 60
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Combi-Plasma/BP - 133
Fast - 5 Doms with 5 SB - 60
DT - Repressor with HF/SBx2 - 92
Fast - 5 Seraphim, Power Sword/BP- 59
Heavy - Penitent Engine - 129
Heavy - Penitent Engine - 129
Okay, so this is for an Annihilation event, so heavy Maelstrom with each turn being a 'set' where the player with the most points that turn wins the set. First to 4 wins, basically.
Firebase with the Rets and Conscripts (8 drops). Repressors have 2 Doms a piece in them (2 drops). Pen Engines and Repressors move aggressively forward with Celestine (3 more drops). Deep Strikes for taking objectives and hitting targets: Tempestor, 3 Scion squads, Eversor, Callidus. Seraphim either with Celestine or DS depending on deployment.
So now that troops are getting Objective Secured back, could Battle Sister Squads be back on the menu?
For me I think that the maneuverability of Doms still wins out, but if/when we ever get a codex of any kind, the stratagems might tip me into considering taking Battalion/Brigade.
But there's no denying the awesome objective holding power of a single Battle Sister in cover. 2+ save and a very tiny model that can easily stay out of LoS.
Rubenite wrote: So now that troops are getting Objective Secured back, could Battle Sister Squads be back on the menu?
For me I think that the maneuverability of Doms still wins out, but if/when we ever get a codex of any kind, the stratagems might tip me into considering taking Battalion/Brigade.
But there's no denying the awesome objective holding power of a single Battle Sister in cover. 2+ save and a very tiny model that can easily stay out of LoS.
I agree that they are slightly better with ObSec, but I don't know that it is enough.
Zefig wrote: Howdy folks, I got my test Repressor add-on printed out, fixed a few issues with it, and put it up on my store. The Polished material surface finish is a little grainy, as shown, but it's a cheaper material. It's also available in frosted ultra detail which has better resolution in the details.
The picture links to the store page.
Next up I'm planning to work on some turrets for it.
With Forgeworld always out of stock and the Chinese stores becoming impossible to find, I think that this will be my next option. Hopefully 3D printing becomes a little more affordable too, though it is already decent.
The turrets shown on your pic are the FW turret and standard rhino stuff right?
I'm assuming you will try to stay as true to these as you can? It's looking really good as it is there!
Hey, thanks! Those are indeed the forgeworld Repressor picees. My piece is designed to fit the standard rhino cupola mounts. The turret design I'm working on, I'm aiming to have it mesh stylistically a little better with my take on the Repressor plate, but it'll be functionally identical.
Unit1126PLL wrote: What would it take to put Battle Sisters over the edge?
They already have: Cheaper (not much) Access to more command points (detachments)
But they don't have: Vanguard As many special weapons
How much cheaper per-model should BSS be to be competitive? 8pts instead of 9? 6? 7?
I think BSS already do have a place.
A cheep unit to pick up command points. A decent speed bump in a blob with some character support.
What's going to 'push them over the edge' is for either of those things to become desirable in the meta. The unit doesn't have to change, you can already customize it how ever you want. It's the meta that'll have to change for them to have a place.
However I do assert that at least they can have SOME use, with two five-girl squads in a repressor. Their six special weapons can fire out just as well as dominions can. They're not as mobile as dominions, but they serve the function of being backline hitters at least, while being marginally cheaper and getting you come CP.
With the new ObSec ruling and the modified first turn rule, will your lists change to take advantage of these?
I've swapped out 3 Dom squads for 3 BSS squads. Not as fast and not as much utility, but the effects are minimal and I've bumped up my number of CPs. Still 11 drops, but now that the difference is only +1 instead of automatic I'm happy with that, especially since I think a majority of lists now will get slightly beefier with ObSec.
I think I decided to try 10 girl blobs; 5 doesn't feel like enough and 15 feels too vulnerable to morale (damn I miss the Fearless from priests!)
I am trying not to bend to the 'play mech' meta either, but I honestly am in limbo right now to be frank. That repressor kit piece looks so good, but then to add the cost of Rhinos too it :X
I think I decided to try 10 girl blobs; 5 doesn't feel like enough and 15 feels too vulnerable to morale (damn I miss the Fearless from priests!)
I am trying not to bend to the 'play mech' meta either, but I honestly am in limbo right now to be frank. That repressor kit piece looks so good, but then to add the cost of Rhinos too it :X
My last tournament I went 2-0-1 with this list:
BN
Celestine (no side chicks)
Canoness
2x10 Sisters, MM, melta gun
10 Sisters, HB 2x Penitent Engine (separate units)
2x5 Dominons, 3 melta guns
2x Repressor, extra SB Imagifer
We played Nova missions and i tied an orc brigade 16-16 round one, then beat a marine fire raptor plus quad mortar spam list and an orc list with 150+ boys/storm boys. I don't think mech is the only way to play and foot Sisters are really viable. It does require more patience with letting the battle develop though.
If they're the latter, I don't think I'll change my list, since matches have been ending with the enemy being annihilated on turn 3 or 4, but the former could present a problem.
Zefig wrote: Howdy folks, I got my test Repressor add-on printed out, fixed a few issues with it, and put it up on my store. The Polished material surface finish is a little grainy, as shown, but it's a cheaper material. It's also available in frosted ultra detail which has better resolution in the details.
The picture links to the store page.
Next up I'm planning to work on some turrets for it.
With Forgeworld always out of stock and the Chinese stores becoming impossible to find, I think that this will be my next option. Hopefully 3D printing becomes a little more affordable too, though it is already decent.
The turrets shown on your pic are the FW turret and standard rhino stuff right?
I'm assuming you will try to stay as true to these as you can? It's looking really good as it is there!
Hey, thanks! Those are indeed the forgeworld Repressor prices. My piece is designed to fit the standard rhino cupola mounts. The turret design I'm working on, I'm aiming to have it mesh stylistically a little better with my take on the Repressor plate, but it'll be functionally identical.
No problem! It looks like you put quite a bit of work into that!
I was thinking along the lines of the low cupola at the back with heavy flamer, and the "tall" cupola at the front with HB or Flamer options at the front, will you try to keep that set-up too?
I think I decided to try 10 girl blobs; 5 doesn't feel like enough and 15 feels too vulnerable to morale (damn I miss the Fearless from priests!)
I am trying not to bend to the 'play mech' meta either, but I honestly am in limbo right now to be frank. That repressor kit piece looks so good, but then to add the cost of Rhinos too it :X
My last tournament I went 2-0-1 with this list:
BN
Celestine (no side chicks)
Canoness
2x10 Sisters, MM, melta gun
10 Sisters, HB 2x Penitent Engine (separate units)
2x5 Dominons, 3 melta guns
2x Repressor, extra SB Imagifer
We played Nova missions and i tied an orc brigade 16-16 round one, then beat a marine fire raptor plus quad mortar spam list and an orc list with 150+ boys/storm boys. I don't think mech is the only way to play and foot Sisters are really viable. It does require more patience with letting the battle develop though.
Looks essentially like my list, though I'd replace the exorcists, repressors, and penitent engines with something. Not sure what. Don't think I have that many Retributors either regrettably.
Penitent engines are great. I'm hard pressed to drop them. The repressors serve to keep the melta girls alive but can probably be replaced by just more bodies.
Exorcists need a points drop or I'm really leaning towards replacing them with predators or other more efficient anti tank.
PanzerLeader wrote: Penitent engines are great. I'm hard pressed to drop them. The repressors serve to keep the melta girls alive but can probably be replaced by just more bodies.
Exorcists need a points drop or I'm really leaning towards replacing them with predators or other more efficient anti tank.
I don't want to replace them with anything; I simply don't own any penitent engines and they don't really fit my fluff that well. The only things I could really be convinced of are Immolators (because they can be produced by the Ecclesiarchy as pointed out to me earlier) and Repressors (because they can be sourced from the local Arbites precincts.) I suppose I could be convinced to get Exorcists as well but I just don't like them in the edition as you mention.
Battalion (+3CP)
HQ - Canoness with Eviscerator/BP - 67
HQ - Tempestor with Command Rod - 40
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB Â - 85
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB Â - 85
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB Â - 85
Troop - 36 Conscripts - 108
Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma - 59
Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma - 59
Elite - Eversor - 70
Elite - Callidus - 80
Elite - Imagifer - 40
Elite - Imagifer - 40
Elite - Commissar with BP/CS - 31
Elite - 4 Tempestus Scions with 4 Plasma - 64
Outrider (+1CP)
HQ - St C&1G - 200
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Combi-Plasma/BP - 133
Fast - 5 Doms with 5 SB - 60
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Combi-Plasma/BP - 133
Fast - 5 Doms with 5 SB - 60
DT - Repressor with HF/SBx2 - 92
Fast - 5 Seraphim, Power Sword/BP- 59
Heavy - Penitent Engine - 129
Heavy - Penitent Engine - 129
Okay, so this is for an Annihilation event, so heavy Maelstrom with each turn being a 'set' where the player with the most points that turn wins the set. First to 4 wins, basically.
Firebase with the Rets and Conscripts (8 drops). Repressors have 2 Doms a piece in them (2 drops). Pen Engines and Repressors move aggressively forward with Celestine (3 more drops). Deep Strikes for taking objectives and hitting targets: Tempestor, 3 Scion squads, Eversor, Callidus. Seraphim either with Celestine or DS depending on deployment.
I think I got buried by the obsec discussion, so moved it up.
I took home another victory with the SoB against the new Ultramarines codex. Highlights included seizing the initiative, vanguarding 2 squads of melta Dominions at a Land Raider, firing 10(!) Melta shots at less than 6" and doing a total of 6 or 7 wounds. A 140 point squad of Seraphim killing a Rhino, a Chaplain, a biker Captain, a few tactical, and heavily damaging another Rhino. 2 Exorcists tag teaming down some shooty Centurians, finishing the land raider, and sniping a biker Apothecary who got too close. An Eviscerator/combi melta Canoness gunning and stabbing her way through some assault Centurians, some tactical Marines, a biker techmarine, and come face to face with his biker Captain warlord, only to be killed by an exploding Rhino before she could deliver the knockout blow.
All in all it was the best 8th edition game I've had so far. It actually went 4 turns before it was decided. Saint Celestine did not really do much besides throw out some handy faith and jet across the table at the 11th hour to kill the last few defenders on his objective.
Before I go purchasing some more sisters, I’m trying to find a proper contingent to my Guard army.
Guard is entirely foot based:
Scions, Vets w/Plasma & LasCannon, Scripts, and Inf squads.
I run Celestine as my Warlord (cause she’s awesome)
My dilemma is that before, I did not want to run any sisters because any opponent worth their salt would target them first so basically 200 pts gone, but now with the increased likelihood of being able to go first (I have 20 drops) I want to incorporate sisters back in.
I have about 200 points right now (I might try 3-D modeling some Seraphim or Rets for my 3-D printer),
Currently I’m thinking 2 units of 5 Seraphim with twin mini-meltas a piece (4 pistols per squad).
Or 2 units of Rets with Heavy Bolters (8 HB’s) as a fire base
For Anti-Tank I have 4 LasCannons and 12 Plasmaguns from Vets, 24 Plasmaguns, and 6 Plasma pistols from Scions, all at @ BS3 reroll 1’s (Vets reroll wounds as well)
For Anti-Infantry, I Have Heavy Bolter Inf Squads, Conscripts FRFSRF, plus the 36 plasmaguns can put a hurt on troops (not necessarily optimized)
Any thoughts on how I should proceed would be great
Before I go purchasing some more sisters, I’m trying to find a proper contingent to my Guard army.
Guard is entirely foot based:
Scions, Vets w/Plasma & LasCannon, Scripts, and Inf squads.
I run Celestine as my Warlord (cause she’s awesome)
My dilemma is that before, I did not want to run any sisters because any opponent worth their salt would target them first so basically 200 pts gone, but now with the increased likelihood of being able to go first (I have 20 drops) I want to incorporate sisters back in.
I have about 200 points right now (I might try 3-D modeling some Seraphim or Rets for my 3-D printer),
Currently I’m thinking 2 units of 5 Seraphim with twin mini-meltas a piece (4 pistols per squad).
Or 2 units of Rets with Heavy Bolters (8 HB’s) as a fire base
For Anti-Tank I have 4 LasCannons and 12 Plasmaguns from Vets, 24 Plasmaguns, and 6 Plasma pistols from Scions, all at @ BS3 reroll 1’s (Vets reroll wounds as well)
For Anti-Infantry, I Have Heavy Bolter Inf Squads, Conscripts FRFSRF, plus the 36 plasmaguns can put a hurt on troops (not necessarily optimized)
Any thoughts on how I should proceed would be great
You're gonna want the Seraphim with Inferno Pistols first for a few reasons:
1. They're just living engines of destruction.
2. They mesh perfectly with Celestine, utilize your 2+ Faith, and are the only unit that can keep up with her to keep her from getting shot to death.
3. They're fast as all hell. If you have a foot guard list you need that.
4. They're fairly durable, especially within 6" of Celestine.
5. Just remember, they suck at melee. Sure they can shoot their pistols in melee (which does solid damage!) but with their low number of attacks and strength they'll struggle to kill anyone. The only time you want them in melee is to keep a tank from shooting, or to hang out with the Big C and shout encouraging words as she lawnmowers her way through squads.
Heavy Bolter Retributors are really good, but IG can get silly numbers of Heavy Bolters for cheeeeeaaap. You don't need the ladies for that.
Tonight I have a 75PL game and my list is mostly footsloggers:
30 battle sisters (3 squads of 10 with 3 storm bolters in each) Celestine and two friends 2x canonesses 10 seraphim (w/ inferno pistols of course) 5 melta+Combi-melta doms in my only tank (immolator with mm) 2x imagifier 1x Dialogus 5 retributors (4 HB and SB)
Before I go purchasing some more sisters, I’m trying to find a proper contingent to my Guard army.
Guard is entirely foot based:
Scions, Vets w/Plasma & LasCannon, Scripts, and Inf squads.
I run Celestine as my Warlord (cause she’s awesome)
My dilemma is that before, I did not want to run any sisters because any opponent worth their salt would target them first so basically 200 pts gone, but now with the increased likelihood of being able to go first (I have 20 drops) I want to incorporate sisters back in.
I have about 200 points right now (I might try 3-D modeling some Seraphim or Rets for my 3-D printer),
Currently I’m thinking 2 units of 5 Seraphim with twin mini-meltas a piece (4 pistols per squad).
Or 2 units of Rets with Heavy Bolters (8 HB’s) as a fire base
For Anti-Tank I have 4 LasCannons and 12 Plasmaguns from Vets, 24 Plasmaguns, and 6 Plasma pistols from Scions, all at @ BS3 reroll 1’s (Vets reroll wounds as well)
For Anti-Infantry, I Have Heavy Bolter Inf Squads, Conscripts FRFSRF, plus the 36 plasmaguns can put a hurt on troops (not necessarily optimized)
Any thoughts on how I should proceed would be great
Any chance you could post your full list?
I ask because I'm currently using a somewhat similar list (also foot-IG with Celestine as my warlord), so I'd love to see exactly what you're running.
Thx landl, I really like the mobility of the Seraphim and what you said confirmed what i was thinking.
I feel in the past that has been AM's biggest flaw was mobility (Chimera's and Vendetta's helped) but getting your suicide squads to the enemy was always an issue, especially against gun lines.
this is my current list vipoid:
HQ Straken
Company Commander x2
Temptus Prime x3
Celestine (Warlord +1 Att.)
Vets, Harker and CC's make a fire base, Straken, Celestine, Priest, Astro, and the script/Inf move forward for objectives, Scions punish long range threats, and objective seize.
i'll probably drop 1-2 Vet squads for the Seraphim, then that frees up the CC points as well
RegulusBlack wrote: Thx landl, I really like the mobility of the Seraphim and what you said confirmed what i was thinking.
I feel in the past that has been AM's biggest flaw was mobility (Chimera's and Vendetta's helped) but getting your suicide squads to the enemy was always an issue, especially against gun lines.
this is my current list vipoid:
HQ Straken
Company Commander x2
Temptus Prime x3
Celestine (Warlord +1 Att.)
Vets, Harker and CC's make a fire base, Straken, Celestine, Priest, Astro, and the script/Inf move forward for objectives, Scions punish long range threats, and objective seize.
i'll probably drop 1-2 Vet squads for the Seraphim, then that frees up the CC points as well
Interesting, that's quite different from mine. Thanks very much.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Tonight I have a 75PL game and my list is mostly footsloggers:
30 battle sisters (3 squads of 10 with 3 storm bolters in each)
Celestine and two friends
2x canonesses
10 seraphim (w/ inferno pistols of course)
5 melta+Combi-melta doms in my only tank (immolator with mm)
2x imagifier
1x Dialogus
5 retributors (4 HB and SB)
That's the rough list, what do you think?
I've shared my 75 PL list, I think, though it might be inapplicable to your situation.
As for my 2c: you're critically lacking in anti-tank capability. I'd also recommend, if you're heart is set on not using Dominions, bringing 6 squads of 5 Battle Sisters, since it nets you 9 additional Storm Bolters.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Tonight I have a 75PL game and my list is mostly footsloggers:
30 battle sisters (3 squads of 10 with 3 storm bolters in each) Celestine and two friends 2x canonesses 10 seraphim (w/ inferno pistols of course) 5 melta+Combi-melta doms in my only tank (immolator with mm) 2x imagifier 1x Dialogus 5 retributors (4 HB and SB)
That's the rough list, what do you think?
I've shared my 75 PL list, I think, though it might be inapplicable to your situation.
As for my 2c: you're critically lacking in anti-tank capability. I'd also recommend, if you're heart is set on not using Dominions, bringing 6 squads of 5 Battle Sisters, since it nets you 9 additional Storm Bolters.
I mentioned earlier in the thread my critically bad anti-tank and no one said anything, lol (or at least I never found a solution).
I'm trying to go for a foot horde and want to make use of Acts of Faith; tiny sisters squads don't really benefit from acts of faith that well and it feels silly fielding a 'foot horde' that's really just tiny MSU (multiply till you get to points limit).
The anti-tank I don't know what to do. I can bring 5 more Dominions, with meltas, but they've no ride, so they get to run upfield and hope for the best. I simply don't know how pure sisters footslogging kill tanks.
EDIT: I could bring some MM Retributors, and just run up the field. Slower than Dominions but with a longer range.
EDIT: Also it's worth noting I only have one more storm bolter that I'm not fielding anyways. I've got a ton of flamers, and bolters.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I mentioned earlier in the thread my critically bad anti-tank and no one said anything, lol (or at least I never found a solution).
Most of the time, this is a great place to ask questions and not a great place for detailed list critique. That's more an army list forum thing.
The anti-tank I don't know what to do. I can bring 5 more Dominions, with meltas, but they've no ride, so they get to run upfield and hope for the best. I simply don't know how pure sisters footslogging kill tanks.
Allies or Rets with HB/Exorcists. Foot horde is rather rough.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Tonight I have a 75PL game and my list is mostly footsloggers:
30 battle sisters (3 squads of 10 with 3 storm bolters in each)
Celestine and two friends
2x canonesses
10 seraphim (w/ inferno pistols of course)
5 melta+Combi-melta doms in my only tank (immolator with mm)
2x imagifier
1x Dialogus
5 retributors (4 HB and SB)
That's the rough list, what do you think?
I've shared my 75 PL list, I think, though it might be inapplicable to your situation.
As for my 2c: you're critically lacking in anti-tank capability. I'd also recommend, if you're heart is set on not using Dominions, bringing 6 squads of 5 Battle Sisters, since it nets you 9 additional Storm Bolters.
I mentioned earlier in the thread my critically bad anti-tank and no one said anything, lol (or at least I never found a solution).
I'm trying to go for a foot horde and want to make use of Acts of Faith; tiny sisters squads don't really benefit from acts of faith that well and it feels silly fielding a 'foot horde' that's really just tiny MSU (multiply till you get to points limit).
The anti-tank I don't know what to do. I can bring 5 more Dominions, with meltas, but they've no ride, so they get to run upfield and hope for the best. I simply don't know how pure sisters footslogging kill tanks.
EDIT: I could bring some MM Retributors, and just run up the field. Slower than Dominions but with a longer range.
EDIT:
Also it's worth noting I only have one more storm bolter that I'm not fielding anyways. I've got a ton of flamers, and bolters.
Exorcists, Penitent Engines, extra Melta Dominions. At this point, the tanks the Dominions are riding in essentially serves as a added layer of wounds, because with only 1 tanks and it filled with such an obvious cargo, it's not going to survive the first turn, and if it rushes out alone, then none of them will survive the first turn.
Earthshaker Carraige Batteries are a good choice, I think, if you're willing to consider allies.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I mentioned earlier in the thread my critically bad anti-tank and no one said anything, lol (or at least I never found a solution).
Most of the time, this is a great place to ask questions and not a great place for detailed list critique. That's more an army list forum thing.
The anti-tank I don't know what to do. I can bring 5 more Dominions, with meltas, but they've no ride, so they get to run upfield and hope for the best. I simply don't know how pure sisters footslogging kill tanks.
Allies or Rets with HB/Exorcists. Foot horde is rather rough.
I do have rets with HBs in the list. Exorcists aren't foot and allies aren't pure sisters. :/ And actually my anti-tank question was in the vein of tactics; I am willing to change up my list, just not run vehicles or allies.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Tonight I have a 75PL game and my list is mostly footsloggers:
30 battle sisters (3 squads of 10 with 3 storm bolters in each)
Celestine and two friends
2x canonesses
10 seraphim (w/ inferno pistols of course)
5 melta+Combi-melta doms in my only tank (immolator with mm)
2x imagifier
1x Dialogus
5 retributors (4 HB and SB)
That's the rough list, what do you think?
I've shared my 75 PL list, I think, though it might be inapplicable to your situation.
As for my 2c: you're critically lacking in anti-tank capability. I'd also recommend, if you're heart is set on not using Dominions, bringing 6 squads of 5 Battle Sisters, since it nets you 9 additional Storm Bolters.
I mentioned earlier in the thread my critically bad anti-tank and no one said anything, lol (or at least I never found a solution).
I'm trying to go for a foot horde and want to make use of Acts of Faith; tiny sisters squads don't really benefit from acts of faith that well and it feels silly fielding a 'foot horde' that's really just tiny MSU (multiply till you get to points limit).
The anti-tank I don't know what to do. I can bring 5 more Dominions, with meltas, but they've no ride, so they get to run upfield and hope for the best. I simply don't know how pure sisters footslogging kill tanks.
EDIT: I could bring some MM Retributors, and just run up the field. Slower than Dominions but with a longer range.
EDIT:
Also it's worth noting I only have one more storm bolter that I'm not fielding anyways. I've got a ton of flamers, and bolters.
Exorcists, Penitent Engines, extra Melta Dominions. At this point, the tanks the Dominions are riding in essentially serves as a added layer of wounds, because with only 1 tanks and it filled with such an obvious cargo, it's not going to survive the first turn, and if it rushes out alone, then none of them will survive the first turn.
Sadly, exorcists and penitent engines aren't foot units. I can bring more melta dominions on foot, and even drop the immolator to squeeze them in. Do you think it is worth it to just spam foot-squads of melta-dominions?
Unit1126PLL wrote: I do have rets with HBs in the list. Exorcists aren't foot and allies aren't pure sisters. :/ And actually my anti-tank question was in the vein of tactics; I am willing to change up my list, just not run vehicles or allies.
Well, if you want to gimp yourself, I guess walking Dominions or Retributors would have to do it.
Do you think it is worth it to just spam foot-squads of melta-dominions?
Unit1126PLL wrote: I mentioned earlier in the thread my critically bad anti-tank and no one said anything, lol (or at least I never found a solution).
Most of the time, this is a great place to ask questions and not a great place for detailed list critique. That's more an army list forum thing.
The anti-tank I don't know what to do. I can bring 5 more Dominions, with meltas, but they've no ride, so they get to run upfield and hope for the best. I simply don't know how pure sisters footslogging kill tanks.
Allies or Rets with HB/Exorcists. Foot horde is rather rough.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I do have rets with HBs in the list. Exorcists aren't foot and allies aren't pure sisters. :/ And actually my anti-tank question was in the vein of tactics; I am willing to change up my list, just not run vehicles or allies.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Tonight I have a 75PL game and my list is mostly footsloggers:
30 battle sisters (3 squads of 10 with 3 storm bolters in each)
Celestine and two friends
2x canonesses
10 seraphim (w/ inferno pistols of course)
5 melta+Combi-melta doms in my only tank (immolator with mm)
2x imagifier
1x Dialogus
5 retributors (4 HB and SB)
That's the rough list, what do you think?
I've shared my 75 PL list, I think, though it might be inapplicable to your situation.
As for my 2c: you're critically lacking in anti-tank capability. I'd also recommend, if you're heart is set on not using Dominions, bringing 6 squads of 5 Battle Sisters, since it nets you 9 additional Storm Bolters.
I mentioned earlier in the thread my critically bad anti-tank and no one said anything, lol (or at least I never found a solution).
I'm trying to go for a foot horde and want to make use of Acts of Faith; tiny sisters squads don't really benefit from acts of faith that well and it feels silly fielding a 'foot horde' that's really just tiny MSU (multiply till you get to points limit).
The anti-tank I don't know what to do. I can bring 5 more Dominions, with meltas, but they've no ride, so they get to run upfield and hope for the best. I simply don't know how pure sisters footslogging kill tanks.
EDIT: I could bring some MM Retributors, and just run up the field. Slower than Dominions but with a longer range.
EDIT:
Also it's worth noting I only have one more storm bolter that I'm not fielding anyways. I've got a ton of flamers, and bolters.
Exorcists, Penitent Engines, extra Melta Dominions. At this point, the tanks the Dominions are riding in essentially serves as a added layer of wounds, because with only 1 tanks and it filled with such an obvious cargo, it's not going to survive the first turn, and if it rushes out alone, then none of them will survive the first turn.
Sadly, exorcists and penitent engines aren't foot units. I can bring more melta dominions on foot, and even drop the immolator to squeeze them in. Do you think it is worth it to just spam foot-squads of melta-dominions?
Without vehicles, Melta Dominions basically have a target on their back. Make sure all your Sister Superiors have Inferno Pistols as a stop gap, make sure your Canonesses have Eviscerators and Melta, and be prepared to go into melee to destroy tanks, and hope you don't pull IG or SM parking lot as your opponent.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I do have rets with HBs in the list. Exorcists aren't foot and allies aren't pure sisters. :/ And actually my anti-tank question was in the vein of tactics; I am willing to change up my list, just not run vehicles or allies.
Well, if you want to gimp yourself, I guess walking Dominions or Retributors would have to do it.
Do you think it is worth it to just spam foot-squads of melta-dominions?
No, but we go with what your restrictions are.
I do try to stick to my fluff, and appreciate the challenge of building a list within the confines of written fluff (rather than within the entire scope of the game-state).
I've been looking to include allies in my fluff, and if the Sisters are defeated badly enough the Order may very well suffer an upheaval with the conservative leadership replaced by women who will absolutely look outside the Order for solutions to particular challenges. But the current leadership is very hidebound, prefers to fight alone, and its isolated nature means it has little support from manufactorums or the Adeptus Mechanicus, though it can slowly make things in its own foundries and factories.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Without vehicles, Melta Dominions basically have a target on their back. Make sure all your Sister Superiors have Inferno Pistols as a stop gap, make sure your Canonesses have Eviscerators and Melta, and be prepared to go into melee to destroy tanks, and hope you don't pull IG or SM parking lot as your opponent.
Running Sisters without tanks is hard.
Alright, I can do that. I've even considered running some Repentia as anti-tank, though they're kinda awful even for that. The inferno-pistol things cuts down on my Storm Bolters (iirc, I don't have the book out atm). I do have seraphim with inferno pistols; I can run 3 or 4 squads of 5 seraphim with 2 inferno pistols per squad (since they're supposed to be elite and more flexible than the BSS I don't mind MSUing them).
Unit1126PLL wrote: I do have rets with HBs in the list. Exorcists aren't foot and allies aren't pure sisters. :/ And actually my anti-tank question was in the vein of tactics; I am willing to change up my list, just not run vehicles or allies.
Well, if you want to gimp yourself, I guess walking Dominions or Retributors would have to do it.
Do you think it is worth it to just spam foot-squads of melta-dominions?
No, but we go with what your restrictions are.
I do try to stick to my fluff, and appreciate the challenge of building a list within the confines of written fluff (rather than within the entire scope of the game-state).
I've been looking to include allies in my fluff, and if the Sisters are defeated badly enough the Order may very well suffer an upheaval with the conservative leadership replaced by women who will absolutely look outside the Order for solutions to particular challenges.
But the current leadership is very hidebound, prefers to fight alone, and its isolated nature means it has little support from manufactorums or the Adeptus Mechanicus, though it can slowly make things in its own foundries and factories.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Without vehicles, Melta Dominions basically have a target on their back. Make sure all your Sister Superiors have Inferno Pistols as a stop gap, make sure your Canonesses have Eviscerators and Melta, and be prepared to go into melee to destroy tanks, and hope you don't pull IG or SM parking lot as your opponent.
Running Sisters without tanks is hard.
Alright, I can do that. I've even considered running some Repentia as anti-tank, though they're kinda awful even for that. The inferno-pistol things cuts down on my Storm Bolters (iirc, I don't have the book out atm). I do have seraphim with inferno pistols; I can run 3 or 4 squads of 5 seraphim with 2 inferno pistols per squad (since they're supposed to be elite and more flexible than the BSS I don't mind MSUing them).
No, it doesn't. Superiors come with both a bolt pistol and a bolt gun. The bolt pistol trades for any other pistol, the boltgun can be traded for a melee weapon or other ranged weapon, and they can take an additional melee weapon. Go Inferno Pistol/Storm Bolter/Power Axe.
Seraphim need to Act of Faith efficiency more than BSS. I'd keep them in one big squad.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I do have rets with HBs in the list. Exorcists aren't foot and allies aren't pure sisters. :/ And actually my anti-tank question was in the vein of tactics; I am willing to change up my list, just not run vehicles or allies.
Well, if you want to gimp yourself, I guess walking Dominions or Retributors would have to do it.
Do you think it is worth it to just spam foot-squads of melta-dominions?
No, but we go with what your restrictions are.
I do try to stick to my fluff, and appreciate the challenge of building a list within the confines of written fluff (rather than within the entire scope of the game-state).
I've been looking to include allies in my fluff, and if the Sisters are defeated badly enough the Order may very well suffer an upheaval with the conservative leadership replaced by women who will absolutely look outside the Order for solutions to particular challenges.
But the current leadership is very hidebound, prefers to fight alone, and its isolated nature means it has little support from manufactorums or the Adeptus Mechanicus, though it can slowly make things in its own foundries and factories.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Without vehicles, Melta Dominions basically have a target on their back. Make sure all your Sister Superiors have Inferno Pistols as a stop gap, make sure your Canonesses have Eviscerators and Melta, and be prepared to go into melee to destroy tanks, and hope you don't pull IG or SM parking lot as your opponent.
Running Sisters without tanks is hard.
Alright, I can do that. I've even considered running some Repentia as anti-tank, though they're kinda awful even for that. The inferno-pistol things cuts down on my Storm Bolters (iirc, I don't have the book out atm). I do have seraphim with inferno pistols; I can run 3 or 4 squads of 5 seraphim with 2 inferno pistols per squad (since they're supposed to be elite and more flexible than the BSS I don't mind MSUing them).
No, it doesn't. Superiors come with both a bolt pistol and a bolt gun. The bolt pistol trades for any other pistol, the boltgun can be traded for a melee weapon or other ranged weapon, and they can take an additional melee weapon. Go Inferno Pistol/Storm Bolter/Power Axe.
Seraphim need to Act of Faith efficiency more than BSS. I'd keep them in one big squad.
Alright, thank you. I will put melta (well, inferno pistols) on my Superiors right away.
Seraphim are fine in one big squad then, hopefully that's enough antitank.
To be fair, I would like to ally in some vehicles perhaps in the future - I know you're fond of the Shadowsword, but I already have my IG superheavy tank company; what about other things?
I have considered running a Supreme Command detachment of 3 Tank Commanders and calling it a SOB leman russ squadron (??) with some old 2nd edition Immolator girls in the hatches and SOB bits, almost certainly with sponson heavy flamers. Would that look nice? Not sure it solves the AT problem but it'd be easy to fluff as crusade allies or whatever. Not sure.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I do have rets with HBs in the list. Exorcists aren't foot and allies aren't pure sisters. :/ And actually my anti-tank question was in the vein of tactics; I am willing to change up my list, just not run vehicles or allies.
Well, if you want to gimp yourself, I guess walking Dominions or Retributors would have to do it.
Do you think it is worth it to just spam foot-squads of melta-dominions?
No, but we go with what your restrictions are.
I do try to stick to my fluff, and appreciate the challenge of building a list within the confines of written fluff (rather than within the entire scope of the game-state).
I've been looking to include allies in my fluff, and if the Sisters are defeated badly enough the Order may very well suffer an upheaval with the conservative leadership replaced by women who will absolutely look outside the Order for solutions to particular challenges.
But the current leadership is very hidebound, prefers to fight alone, and its isolated nature means it has little support from manufactorums or the Adeptus Mechanicus, though it can slowly make things in its own foundries and factories.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Without vehicles, Melta Dominions basically have a target on their back. Make sure all your Sister Superiors have Inferno Pistols as a stop gap, make sure your Canonesses have Eviscerators and Melta, and be prepared to go into melee to destroy tanks, and hope you don't pull IG or SM parking lot as your opponent.
Running Sisters without tanks is hard.
Alright, I can do that. I've even considered running some Repentia as anti-tank, though they're kinda awful even for that. The inferno-pistol things cuts down on my Storm Bolters (iirc, I don't have the book out atm). I do have seraphim with inferno pistols; I can run 3 or 4 squads of 5 seraphim with 2 inferno pistols per squad (since they're supposed to be elite and more flexible than the BSS I don't mind MSUing them).
No, it doesn't. Superiors come with both a bolt pistol and a bolt gun. The bolt pistol trades for any other pistol, the boltgun can be traded for a melee weapon or other ranged weapon, and they can take an additional melee weapon. Go Inferno Pistol/Storm Bolter/Power Axe.
Seraphim need to Act of Faith efficiency more than BSS. I'd keep them in one big squad.
Alright, thank you. I will put melta (well, inferno pistols) on my Superiors right away.
Seraphim are fine in one big squad then, hopefully that's enough antitank.
To be fair, I would like to ally in some vehicles perhaps in the future - I know you're fond of the Shadowsword, but I already have my IG superheavy tank company; what about other things?
I have considered running a Supreme Command detachment of 3 Tank Commanders and calling it a SOB leman russ squadron (??) with some old 2nd edition Immolator girls in the hatches and SOB bits, almost certainly with sponson heavy flamers. Would that look nice? Not sure it solves the AT problem but it'd be easy to fluff as crusade allies or whatever. Not sure.
I wouldn't take Russes with heavy flamers, they're bad. I like my Tank Commanders to have Battle Cannon, Lascannon, 2x Multimeltas, Hunter-Killer Missile [FAQ allows it], and a Pintle Storm Bolter. It's expensive, but it does it's job. As an addendum, Exorcists are superior to Leman Russes, but are inferior to Basilisks, which are in turn inferior to Manticores.
I'd just get more Immolators. Cheaper [points-wise], can take an H-K Missile, and can get your Meltaguns forward.
Two things to keep in mind:
Seraphim are not good in assault, but a tank in close combat is a tank not shooting you. Use your Seraphim to assault tanks, but only if you know you can lock them down. Be careful with things like tanks full of Berzerkers, because you'll have to surround them to keep the Berzerkers from getting out. Don't charge things like Raiders, because they have fly and troops onboard can shoot out, so you're just taking unnecessary overwatch,
Inferno Pistols on Superiors are pretty much only viable when upgrades are free. They're emergency antitank. Don't buy them when playing with points, they're too expensive for something you're not going to use, but absolutely equip them when playing Power Level. Since you have them, also don't write off going into melee with tanks with your basic units. A Power Axe lets the superior wound a Rhino or Predator on a 5, and the Inferno Pistol means you can still blow them up if they don't flee from combat with you. This is another reason why I like small squads, especially in Power Levels, because you really overpay in PL the larger your squad gets.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I do have rets with HBs in the list. Exorcists aren't foot and allies aren't pure sisters. :/ And actually my anti-tank question was in the vein of tactics; I am willing to change up my list, just not run vehicles or allies.
Well, if you want to gimp yourself, I guess walking Dominions or Retributors would have to do it.
Do you think it is worth it to just spam foot-squads of melta-dominions?
No, but we go with what your restrictions are.
I do try to stick to my fluff, and appreciate the challenge of building a list within the confines of written fluff (rather than within the entire scope of the game-state).
I've been looking to include allies in my fluff, and if the Sisters are defeated badly enough the Order may very well suffer an upheaval with the conservative leadership replaced by women who will absolutely look outside the Order for solutions to particular challenges.
But the current leadership is very hidebound, prefers to fight alone, and its isolated nature means it has little support from manufactorums or the Adeptus Mechanicus, though it can slowly make things in its own foundries and factories.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Without vehicles, Melta Dominions basically have a target on their back. Make sure all your Sister Superiors have Inferno Pistols as a stop gap, make sure your Canonesses have Eviscerators and Melta, and be prepared to go into melee to destroy tanks, and hope you don't pull IG or SM parking lot as your opponent.
Running Sisters without tanks is hard.
Alright, I can do that. I've even considered running some Repentia as anti-tank, though they're kinda awful even for that. The inferno-pistol things cuts down on my Storm Bolters (iirc, I don't have the book out atm). I do have seraphim with inferno pistols; I can run 3 or 4 squads of 5 seraphim with 2 inferno pistols per squad (since they're supposed to be elite and more flexible than the BSS I don't mind MSUing them).
No, it doesn't. Superiors come with both a bolt pistol and a bolt gun. The bolt pistol trades for any other pistol, the boltgun can be traded for a melee weapon or other ranged weapon, and they can take an additional melee weapon. Go Inferno Pistol/Storm Bolter/Power Axe.
Seraphim need to Act of Faith efficiency more than BSS. I'd keep them in one big squad.
Alright, thank you. I will put melta (well, inferno pistols) on my Superiors right away.
Seraphim are fine in one big squad then, hopefully that's enough antitank.
To be fair, I would like to ally in some vehicles perhaps in the future - I know you're fond of the Shadowsword, but I already have my IG superheavy tank company; what about other things?
I have considered running a Supreme Command detachment of 3 Tank Commanders and calling it a SOB leman russ squadron (??) with some old 2nd edition Immolator girls in the hatches and SOB bits, almost certainly with sponson heavy flamers. Would that look nice? Not sure it solves the AT problem but it'd be easy to fluff as crusade allies or whatever. Not sure.
I wouldn't take Russes with heavy flamers, they're bad. I like my Tank Commanders to have Battle Cannon, Lascannon, 2x Multimeltas, Hunter-Killer Missile [FAQ allows it], and a Pintle Storm Bolter. It's expensive, but it does it's job.
I'd just get more Immolators. Cheaper [points-wise], can take an H-K Missile, and can get your Meltaguns forward.
Two things to keep in mind:
Seraphim are not good in assault, but a tank in close combat is a tank not shooting you. Use your Seraphim to assault tanks, but only if you know you can lock them down. Be careful with things like tanks full of Berzerkers, because you'll have to surround them to keep the Berzerkers from getting out. Don't charge things like Raiders, because they have fly and troops onboard can shoot out, so you're just taking unnecessary overwatch,
Inferno Pistols on Superiors, are pretty much only viable when upgrades are free. They're emergency antitank. Don't buy them when playing with points, they're too expensive for something you're not going to use, but absolutely equip them when playing Power Level. Since you have them, also don't write off going into melee with tanks with your basic troops. A Power Axe lets the superior wound a Rhino or Predator on a 5, and the Inferno Pistol means you can still blow them up if they don't flee from combat with you. This is another reason why I like small squads, especially in Power Levels, because you really overpay in PL the larger your squad gets.
Okay, more Immolators rather than Russes. That's fluffier too because the Order factories can churn them out without the aid of the Mechanicus (to be fair they can do this with exorcists too but :X)
So how many Immolator-mounted Dominion melta squads would you say is "enough" for 75 PL? One more? Two? I need to know how many Immos to buy.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I do have rets with HBs in the list. Exorcists aren't foot and allies aren't pure sisters. :/ And actually my anti-tank question was in the vein of tactics; I am willing to change up my list, just not run vehicles or allies.
Well, if you want to gimp yourself, I guess walking Dominions or Retributors would have to do it.
Do you think it is worth it to just spam foot-squads of melta-dominions?
No, but we go with what your restrictions are.
I do try to stick to my fluff, and appreciate the challenge of building a list within the confines of written fluff (rather than within the entire scope of the game-state).
I've been looking to include allies in my fluff, and if the Sisters are defeated badly enough the Order may very well suffer an upheaval with the conservative leadership replaced by women who will absolutely look outside the Order for solutions to particular challenges.
But the current leadership is very hidebound, prefers to fight alone, and its isolated nature means it has little support from manufactorums or the Adeptus Mechanicus, though it can slowly make things in its own foundries and factories.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Without vehicles, Melta Dominions basically have a target on their back. Make sure all your Sister Superiors have Inferno Pistols as a stop gap, make sure your Canonesses have Eviscerators and Melta, and be prepared to go into melee to destroy tanks, and hope you don't pull IG or SM parking lot as your opponent.
Running Sisters without tanks is hard.
Alright, I can do that. I've even considered running some Repentia as anti-tank, though they're kinda awful even for that. The inferno-pistol things cuts down on my Storm Bolters (iirc, I don't have the book out atm). I do have seraphim with inferno pistols; I can run 3 or 4 squads of 5 seraphim with 2 inferno pistols per squad (since they're supposed to be elite and more flexible than the BSS I don't mind MSUing them).
No, it doesn't. Superiors come with both a bolt pistol and a bolt gun. The bolt pistol trades for any other pistol, the boltgun can be traded for a melee weapon or other ranged weapon, and they can take an additional melee weapon. Go Inferno Pistol/Storm Bolter/Power Axe.
Seraphim need to Act of Faith efficiency more than BSS. I'd keep them in one big squad.
Alright, thank you. I will put melta (well, inferno pistols) on my Superiors right away.
Seraphim are fine in one big squad then, hopefully that's enough antitank.
To be fair, I would like to ally in some vehicles perhaps in the future - I know you're fond of the Shadowsword, but I already have my IG superheavy tank company; what about other things?
I have considered running a Supreme Command detachment of 3 Tank Commanders and calling it a SOB leman russ squadron (??) with some old 2nd edition Immolator girls in the hatches and SOB bits, almost certainly with sponson heavy flamers. Would that look nice? Not sure it solves the AT problem but it'd be easy to fluff as crusade allies or whatever. Not sure.
I wouldn't take Russes with heavy flamers, they're bad. I like my Tank Commanders to have Battle Cannon, Lascannon, 2x Multimeltas, Hunter-Killer Missile [FAQ allows it], and a Pintle Storm Bolter. It's expensive, but it does it's job.
I'd just get more Immolators. Cheaper [points-wise], can take an H-K Missile, and can get your Meltaguns forward.
Two things to keep in mind:
Seraphim are not good in assault, but a tank in close combat is a tank not shooting you. Use your Seraphim to assault tanks, but only if you know you can lock them down. Be careful with things like tanks full of Berzerkers, because you'll have to surround them to keep the Berzerkers from getting out. Don't charge things like Raiders, because they have fly and troops onboard can shoot out, so you're just taking unnecessary overwatch,
Inferno Pistols on Superiors, are pretty much only viable when upgrades are free. They're emergency antitank. Don't buy them when playing with points, they're too expensive for something you're not going to use, but absolutely equip them when playing Power Level. Since you have them, also don't write off going into melee with tanks with your basic troops. A Power Axe lets the superior wound a Rhino or Predator on a 5, and the Inferno Pistol means you can still blow them up if they don't flee from combat with you. This is another reason why I like small squads, especially in Power Levels, because you really overpay in PL the larger your squad gets.
Okay, more Immolators rather than Russes. That's fluffier too because the Order factories can churn them out without the aid of the Mechanicus (to be fair they can do this with exorcists too but :X)
So how many Immolator-mounted Dominion melta squads would you say is "enough" for 75 PL? One more? Two? I need to know how many Immos to buy.
I run 3 Antitank squads and 2 Antiinfantry squads, plus an Exorcist, a Pengine, and Celestine. I mix the Immolators 50/50 Flamers and Multimeltas. One of the anti-infantry squads is on foot and is 10-strong, because I ran out of slots and want to have someone to accept the second Act of Faith on turn 1, and to push back the 9" perimeter. Why don't I use Rets instead? I don't know. I probably should, but I like being able to scout forward and keep up with the tanks. I can cover the rear gates of my tanks to ensure I have room to disembark if I get charged.
If your heart is set on being a foot-based army, though, you can still field so many meltaguns that the enemy can't kill them all. Sisters are better in vehicles, but that doesn't make foot non-viable.
I've been considering permutations to improve my list though. While it is undefeated, it's currently one of the metrics by which opposition lists are being build, so it's not going to stay that way for long and I need to stay one step ahead of my opponents!
Also, both in Points and in PL, my Multimelta Immolators have performed incredibly well, blowing up Dreadnoughts, Tyrants, Rhinos, and, in last game, 2 together took down a Land Raider. Are the overpriced? Yes, especially compared to Lasbacks. Are they destructive? Also yes.
Also, both in Points and in PL, my Multimelta Immolators have performed incredibly well, blowing up Dreadnoughts, Tyrants, Rhinos, and, in last game, 2 paired up to take down a Land Raider.
Ahh PL. Nevermind then. In a matched play game, I would rather spend those points on other upgrades or more dominions.
The Sisters had a crushing victory. I didn't change my list from the one I posted earlier (due to not having brought extra models), but the enemy showed up with Orks. His major vehicle-like things were a Deffkopta (very vulnerable to boltguns), a Wartrakk (very vulnerable to boltguns), a Dakkajet (very vulnerable to Celestine ripping it from the sky and dashing it on the ground doing mortal wounds to a whole mess of units), and a Trukk (very vulnerable to Dominions).
The rest of his list was an Ork horde, essentially, which, needless to say, is very vulnerable to boltguns.
He was tabled, and my Dominions were wiped out because I decided not to babysit them after the Trukk exploded. Everything else had a few casualties here and there but nothing meaningful.
The Sisters had a crushing victory. I didn't change my list from the one I posted earlier (due to not having brought extra models), but the enemy showed up with Orks. His major vehicle-like things were a Deffkopta (very vulnerable to boltguns), a Wartrakk (very vulnerable to boltguns), a Dakkajet (very vulnerable to Celestine ripping it from the sky and dashing it on the ground doing mortal wounds to a whole mess of units), and a Trukk (very vulnerable to Dominions).
The rest of his list was an Ork horde, essentially, which, needless to say, is very vulnerable to boltguns.
He was tabled, and my Dominions were wiped out because I decided not to babysit them after the Trukk exploded. Everything else had a few casualties here and there but nothing meaningful.
The Sisters had a crushing victory. I didn't change my list from the one I posted earlier (due to not having brought extra models), but the enemy showed up with Orks. His major vehicle-like things were a Deffkopta (very vulnerable to boltguns), a Wartrakk (very vulnerable to boltguns), a Dakkajet (very vulnerable to Celestine ripping it from the sky and dashing it on the ground doing mortal wounds to a whole mess of units), and a Trukk (very vulnerable to Dominions).
The rest of his list was an Ork horde, essentially, which, needless to say, is very vulnerable to boltguns.
He was tabled, and my Dominions were wiped out because I decided not to babysit them after the Trukk exploded. Everything else had a few casualties here and there but nothing meaningful.
Good to hear!
I do chalk the victory up to 'luck-of-the-draw' though on opponents. If I had pulled an IG tank company, I agree I'd've been in trouble.
I just managed to score a handful of second hand sisters at a good discount-- they're in the Simple Green as I write. This will be my first acquisition of 8th, so I'm heading in some new directions. My first Penitent Engine, 2 Heavy Bolters, 3 Stormbolters, 2 Superiors with Plasma Pistols, and an Immolator w/ Flamers.
I mostly know what to do with them, but where would y'all put the Plasma Pistols? Running them with Doms gets them close. BSS units in transports work too, eventually.
Also, this will be my first Stormbolter Dominion unit. How big, and how to deploy them? Prime targets? I'm thinking Advance and sit on an objective in the middle of the table if possible.
Helo. Dominion Party bus is doing great. But I'm gonna have my first ever 2000pts game, this Wednesday. I came up with this list, to be TAC list, but I'm not sure if this will be enough.
Retributor Squad [5 PL, 100pts] . Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
MacPhail wrote: I just managed to score a handful of second hand sisters at a good discount-- they're in the Simple Green as I write. This will be my first acquisition of 8th, so I'm heading in some new directions. My first Penitent Engine, 2 Heavy Bolters, 3 Stormbolters, 2 Superiors with Plasma Pistols, and an Immolator w/ Flamers.
I mostly know what to do with them, but where would y'all put the Plasma Pistols? Running them with Doms gets them close. BSS units in transports work too, eventually.
Also, this will be my first Stormbolter Dominion unit. How big, and how to deploy them? Prime targets? I'm thinking Advance and sit on an objective in the middle of the table if possible.
Strong opinions?
'
5, in a Repressor or Immolator. Sure, they can start on foot and make it there, but that adds a lot of drops, and a Repressor isn't a bad ride for them.
As far a Plasma Pistols, I'd pass. Combi Meltas or additional Storm Bolters are worth more, in my opinion.
So I had a major mishap with Purity Seal... The canoness ended up frosting up like I had left her in the back of a freezer for a year. Basically I'm never using an aerosol based varnish again.
That said, I was able to fix it in a surprising way: put her in a toaster oven at 130 degrees for an hour and I was able to see the teeth of her chainsaw again. There's still a grain on her features that gets picked up on camera but isn't really visible in person. Ended up placing first for single infantry sized models for the painting comp though:
MacPhail wrote: I just managed to score a handful of second hand sisters at a good discount-- they're in the Simple Green as I write. This will be my first acquisition of 8th, so I'm heading in some new directions. My first Penitent Engine, 2 Heavy Bolters, 3 Stormbolters, 2 Superiors with Plasma Pistols, and an Immolator w/ Flamers.
I mostly know what to do with them, but where would y'all put the Plasma Pistols? Running them with Doms gets them close. BSS units in transports work too, eventually.
Also, this will be my first Stormbolter Dominion unit. How big, and how to deploy them? Prime targets? I'm thinking Advance and sit on an objective in the middle of the table if possible.
Nice grab!
As far as the plasma pstols (Superior with chainsword and plasma pistol?) I would swap out the pistol for a stormbolter off of a SM character bit or Sternguard stormbolter bit.
Stormbolter Doms like to ride for sure, I field mine in squads of five with a stormbolter each. With them being only twelve points, you don't need to worry about ablative wounds, just bring another squad of five if you are in a Repressor. I don't field as many melta Doms, but I often run with stormbolter squads solo in four Repressors with two melta Dom squads riding along in two of them. Melta or SB fire out according to your need. Drop off your SB Doms if necessary and you feel they have a chance to survive enemy fire.
My Doms rarely sit still, they run in packs to take out units within 12" (repressors fire first teaming up on closer units, hoping to kill the close units with your shortest ranged weapons, stormbolters clean up and then extend outward).
MacPhail wrote: I just managed to score a handful of second hand sisters at a good discount-- they're in the Simple Green as I write. This will be my first acquisition of 8th, so I'm heading in some new directions. My first Penitent Engine, 2 Heavy Bolters, 3 Stormbolters, 2 Superiors with Plasma Pistols, and an Immolator w/ Flamers.
I mostly know what to do with them, but where would y'all put the Plasma Pistols? Running them with Doms gets them close. BSS units in transports work too, eventually.
Also, this will be my first Stormbolter Dominion unit. How big, and how to deploy them? Prime targets? I'm thinking Advance and sit on an objective in the middle of the table if possible.
Strong opinions?
As already mentioned, plasma pistols should be swapped for cheaper yet more effective stormbolters.
Doms definitely need a ride, so Immolators or Repressors. I personally like a 5-Dom squad, 2 with meltaguns and the rest with stormbolters. If you run multiple squads as I do, your opponent will have to chew through each squad to get to the meltas. Since you can split fire now, the meltas can always target your higher T opponents while the stormbolters can go after your softer targets.
Doms like to be on the move and shooting, if you want to sit on an objective get Troop Sisters or Heavy Bolters if you're in your backfield.
---------
I have a few táctica questions for the group---
In all my games thus far, Celestine has always been slain, giving my opponent the Slay VP. I have been tinkering with the heretical thought of making my Canoness the Warlord -egads!!
Celestine will always be a primary target being the beat stick that she is, so does taking that extra incentive away give her a little more chance for survival? Granted she loses her +1A, but the Canoness (mine equips a Power Maul for Str5 attacks) will get it, bumping her up to 5 attacks.
Bad idea? Thoughts?
I have 11 drops for my 2000 point list. Now that the benefit of having fewer drops only gives a +1 to the dice roll for going first (in some missions), is it still of vital importance to get as few drops as possible in a list? Or should I think of drops as I do about command points- i.e. not tailoring my list to maximize for CPs nor to minimize my drops, but rather to build a balanced list?
In a 2000 point list, what should be the minimum number of meltaguns / inferno pistols to deal with high T targets (assuming no allies or Exorcists).
I am taking 12 meltaguns spread over 6 Dominion squads and 4 Inferno Pistols equipped on a Seraphim squad, as well as a combiplasma on my Canoness. Is this enough for a tournament type list?
Captain Joystick wrote: So I had a major mishap with Purity Seal... The canoness ended up frosting up like I had left her in the back of a freezer for a year. Basically I'm never using an aerosol based varnish again.
That said, I was able to fix it in a surprising way: put her in a toaster oven at 130 degrees for an hour and I was able to see the teeth of her chainsaw again. There's still a grain on her features that gets picked up on camera but isn't really visible in person. Ended up placing first for single infantry sized models for the painting comp though:
Try lightly rubbing her with a Q-tip and olive oil, then removing the olive oil with a light dabbing of soapy water and finishing with a rinse. I've had some problems in the past with varnishes frosting up, and that can help clean it right off.
Try lightly rubbing her with a Q-tip and olive oil, then removing the olive oil with a light dabbing of soapy water and finishing with a rinse. I've had some problems in the past with varnishes frosting up, and that can help clean it right off.
It really is fine though. It's not noticeable in person, and I'm not going to go through that much trouble trying weird stuff to remedy it. I got to take her to the painting comp, had a fun anecdote to share, and got to be surprised with a win.
I want to take what I've learned and start with the battle sisters (I may finish my bloodbowl team to confirm how the paint on varnish looks under normal circumstances), I'll refine the process and when I feel really confident I'll strip her down and paint her again.
Going to be playing a 2v2 match today, sobs and primarus vs orcs and Tau, 3k points for 1500 per person.
I'm bringing a heavily themed list of faith and fire and wanted to get an opinion or two.
Outrider Detachment
Celestine +2 giminae sisters
3x of
Seraphim x7
Seraphim X2 flamer pistols
Superior with plasma and powersword
Outrider detachment
Cannoness combimelta power axe
3x of
Dominion x4 meta
superior combimelta
3x of
Immolator, flamer, storm bolter, hk missile
1498 points
Idea is to send Seraphim and Celestine at the ork and Dom squads at Tau with their vanguard one of the Dom units will have the Cannoness so I plan to use the a of for a pseudo vanguard movement. Pretty much bum rush shock and awe
In all my games thus far, Celestine has always been slain, giving my opponent the Slay VP. I have been tinkering with the heretical thought of making my Canoness the Warlord -egads!!
Celestine will always be a primary target being the beat stick that she is, so does taking that extra incentive away give her a little more chance for survival? Granted she loses her +1A, but the Canoness (mine equips a Power Maul for Str5 attacks) will get it, bumping her up to 5 attacks.
Bad idea? Thoughts?
I have 11 drops for my 2000 point list. Now that the benefit of having fewer drops only gives a +1 to the dice roll for going first (in some missions), is it still of vital importance to get as few drops as possible in a list? Or should I think of drops as I do about command points- i.e. not tailoring my list to maximize for CPs nor to minimize my drops, but rather to build a balanced list?
In a 2000 point list, what should be the minimum number of meltaguns / inferno pistols to deal with high T targets (assuming no allies or Exorcists).
I am taking 12 meltaguns spread over 6 Dominion squads and 4 Inferno Pistols equipped on a Seraphim squad, as well as a combiplasma on my Canoness. Is this enough for a tournament type list?
Celesti e is always going to be a huge bullet magnet. She might survive the game, sje mught not, depends on your rolls and how intimidated ypur opponent is by her. Its been mentioned befire that she is a great distraction fex. As nice as it is to throw an extra attack on her or up her survival chances marginally by giving her the 6+fnp, letting her be your warlord isnt the only option.
When possible, i like to have a cannoness in my lists as my warlord and let Celestine go up and ruin my opponents day. She is really able to take the focus off the cannoness when she gets killing and if she dies go down, youre not giving away a point and jonestly, its amusing seeing the confusion and frustration on an opponents face when they realise the cannoness letting tje Rets and Exos up back is the warlord and not the murderface beatstick theyve spent 2+ turns focusing down.
A cannoness these days is no slouch. Hitting on 3+ with an eviscerator and steiking first if charging, no more instant death, 4++ and rerolling 1s to hit; a cannoness can be almost as smashy as celestine...really if she had a jump pack ypud probably see less of big C and more asdaulty cannonesses.
Ive never worried about how many drops my army has. My dice have been so abysmal for years that ive gotten used to going second every game. With the change to sieze etc, i wouldnt worry too.mych about your drops, but thats just me. If we are getting to the point that the outcone is determined by who goes first tyen something is clearly wrong.
12 melta and another 4 in seraphim sounds good to me. Is that 2 per dominion squad? Couple of full melta squads? Melta immos?
The most dangerous thing about Celestine is the vast degree to which people overestimate and fear her. In terms of raw power, she's actually not the greatest investment.
Against standard 1W MEq, Celestine and her two girls will only outperform an Eversor Assassin by 1 body while costing more than three times as much. Even against multi-wound targets, the damage done doesn't justify the difference in cost. Especially since she can't benefit from any faction buffs (despite being from the Order of Our Martyred Lady, she doesn't actually have the keyword, so she can't get any rerolls).
I run an Imperial Soup army, and Celestine isn't even in the top three best units in the list (maybe not even top five, especially if you count duplicates). But she's one of the most useful because of just how much your opponent is geared to tunnel vision in on her. Combined with her mobility and resilience, she can either get a lot done, or let a lot be done.
I have 2 melta Doms in each of my 6 Dominion squads. Each squad rides in an Immolator with the Flamer.
@Captain Joystick- I have thought my anti-tank is a bit light, but sticking to a pure Sisters list limits my options. Meltaguns are slightly on the expensive side, and Exorcists seem too variable and under-performing for the cost. I could put another 3 meltaguns spread out over my 6 Dominion squads. I hesitate to put meltaguns on my Troop Sisters as I don't want them to draw fire, I just need them for support and to hold objectives.
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Fafnir wrote: But she's one of the most useful because of just how much your opponent is geared to tunnel vision in on her. Combined with her mobility and resilience, she can either get a lot done, or let a lot be done.
That's the beauty of Celestine, she has amazing mobility with her AoF (24" plus charge) and at 2/4++ she can shake off a lot of incoming. She is a threat everywhere but I would never put her up against a proper character killer.
Frankie G from Frontline Gaming is running a sisters at the Nova Invitational. It'll be interesting to see his list (lots of repressors and dominions I hear). Should be good. He's seeded 10th out of 32.
I played my first 3 games with the Sororitas this weekend at a tournament, which happened to also be my 3rd-5th games of 8th Ed. as a whole. I lost the first two and nearly tabled my opponent on the third game for the win, but I think it was largely down to army choices in all three games as well as running out of time and being unable to finish the first two games, and not fully knowing/remembering what's changed for the army as well as the rules as a whole. I had first turn in all 3 games, nobody managed to steal the initiative even with a reroll every time. I won't get crazy with writing out my list in detail, but I had:
Celestine and her minions
Canoness with combi-plasma and power maul
Three troop squads, 2 in immolators (flamer version) and 1 with extra bodies, each have a heavy flamer
A melta dominion squad in another immolator (TMM version because WYSIWYG)
10 seraphim with a plasma pistol/power sword superior (again, WYSIWYG)
3 penitent engines, single squad
Game 1 was against Blood Angels. I made an error bringing my Seraphim in behind my opponent's warlord, who was in just the right spot for me to drop in and be able to target him as the closest model. 18 bolt pistols did a single wound after saves, and the plasma pistol killed my superior (rolled a 1, CP to reroll into another 1). I then failed the charge, and my opponent's first turn was to send 10 Death Company and the warlord after my single squad. It worked out, none of those models were otherwise relevant until turn 3 since they turned around and went backwards, but in the end it didn't matter as much. We ran out of time, due to both of us having to look up too many rules, but we each got 3 full turns out of it and I lost by a single point.
Game 2 was against Necrons, which was absolutely the worst army to fight against in a kill points mission. 3x15 warriors, 10 immortals and 6 boat-legs were accompanied by some support character that boosted the "I'll be back" roll and gave out an invuln save, an overlord and a big ship thing. I managed to use my meltadoms to kill 4 of the boat-legs, and all 4 came back with full wounds the next turn. Hilariously, my opponent only managed to kill a single dominion (I chose to take out the superior, because meltas are more useful than a single boltgun) with the entire squad of boat-legs firing at them, though the two units of warriors that could have fired at them shot and killed the immolator they rode in. My second turn, I leveled the 4 remaining dominions, two immolation flamers, my canoness' combi-plasma and a penitent engine's heavy flamers and the entire squad of boat-legs died except a single model with a single wound left. I charged everything that could, and only the dominions made the distance. I actually managed to do a wound, and my opponent failed, but he used his final CP to reroll it and pass. His next turn, he got the entire squad back and I lost my dominions to the overlord. I don't like necrons anymore in this edition than I did in the last one. Literally only one table read the mission correctly for the mission (week 2 of Konor) so I think if we'd awarded the bonus points properly, I might've either won or tied this game instead of lost. As it stood, it was 12-0 because I never brought my seraphim on (we ended after my opponent's turn 4, I was planning to bring the seraphim on in turn 5) but I didn't feel like trying to go back to fix the points. We weren't going to change the W-L status of any games, but we were offered to recount the VPs if we wanted to.
Game 3 was against a dark eldar player who had 5 venoms, 2 jetfighters and a bomber, with stuff inside the venoms. By the end of the game, my canoness had died alongside my dominions and one penitent engine, but every other squad was alive, if much smaller than they started. This game mostly showed that heavy flamers are completely brutal against things that rely on being difficult to hit in shooting, and that Celestine is an absolute monster. She single-handedly took down both jetfighters and two archons within 2 rounds of combat after they charged her, as well as dumpstering multiple other small squads and venoms.
Final thoughts:
All in all, I'm not terribly impressed with seraphim as an alpha-strike unit, as their profile seems to suggest they could be. Bringing them in late-game to take an objective seems like an excellent use of them though, and something they worked really well for in my final game. The downside being you might forget to bring them in, and they'll count against you in a kill points game.
Penitent engines are my new favorite toys. I took at least one in every game I've played since I started back in the last quarter of 6th ed., but they never felt like they really did anything. Aside from Celestine, I think they had more kills than literally any other unit in my army. I think I'll be splitting them into separate units instead of keeping them together in the future. It just seemed like I really overkilled everything I went after, and on one occasion wounds spilled over from one model into the next because it was multiple D1 wounds that made it through. Plus I'd like to be able to send them after different targets, and having more than 1 chance of getting that second set of attacks seems much better. The only downside to my beloved penitent engines is the fact that they're no longer Sororitas units, so they're not valid targets for AoF and lost their invuln unless they happen to be close to Celestine. Even just for pure fluff reasons, I'm sad they were moved. I still love them, though. Great models. Frustrating, but beautiful.
Celestine is every bit the monster I'd hoped she would be. Her minions did so little over the course of the day, I almost wish I hadn't brought them to save on points but at some point one of them ate a D5 attack that I failed to save, so the extra protection is really nice. I'll keep taking them both for a little while, but as of right now I'm thinking I may eventually drop one of them.
Flamers. Are. Amazing. I used pretty exclusively heavy flamers and similar profiles for this tournament, but I'm definitely going to run a second dominion squad with flamers and a combi-flamer. I'm a little worried about the lower S and lack of AP, but I love the D6 auto-hits so much. I'm also considering the hand flamers on seraphim, mostly because 2 of my 10 models are equipped with them and I really enjoy playing WYSIWYG, but I also like bringing the squad in from reserves which means I won't be using the hand flamers until my following turn, assuming they're even alive by that point.
I'm not sure taking a regular flamer in the BSS units is really worth the points, though, as well as the loss of ranged threat by having 2 models doing nothing outside of 8". I like the HF a lot, but I think for the special weapon on my troops I'd actually prefer storm bolters. It makes up for the shots you lose for having the HF model, and is cheaper than a flamer. One of these days I'd love to take a squad of dominions with stormbolters, just to pump out 20 shots from a 5-woman squad (since the superior can take a stormbolter as well), but I'm not sure the weapon is worth an entire squad that could take something so much better. Then again, 20 shots.
Celestians' bodyguard rule triggers when a character loses a wound. A lascannon doesn't cause a model to lose wounds until it rolls damage.
If Celestine fails a save against a lascannon and it rolls a 6 for damage, then Celestine would lose 6 wounds. You roll 6 dice, and for each 2+ you can opt to have the Celestians take a mortal wound in order to ignore one of the wounds on Celestine.
Dionysodorus wrote: Celestians' bodyguard rule triggers when a character loses a wound. A lascannon doesn't cause a model to lose wounds until it rolls damage.
If Celestine fails a save against a lascannon and it rolls a 6 for damage, then Celestine would lose 6 wounds. You roll 6 dice, and for each 2+ you can opt to have the Celestians take a mortal wound in order to ignore one of the wounds on Celestine.
I am no fan of Celestians and do not use them, but I don't believe this is the way the rule reads. It says that "on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit" ....in other words the lascannnon hits ONE time, a Celestian model intercepts the hit on a 2+ and loses a mortal wound. If it were 6 HITS then yes, one Celestian would need to intercept each of the 6 hits individually.
Dionysodorus wrote: Celestians' bodyguard rule triggers when a character loses a wound. A lascannon doesn't cause a model to lose wounds until it rolls damage.
If Celestine fails a save against a lascannon and it rolls a 6 for damage, then Celestine would lose 6 wounds. You roll 6 dice, and for each 2+ you can opt to have the Celestians take a mortal wound in order to ignore one of the wounds on Celestine.
I am no fan of Celestians and do not use them, but I don't believe this is the way the rule reads. It says that "on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit" ....in other words the lascannnon hits ONE time, a Celestian model intercepts the hit on a 2+ and loses a mortal wound. If it were 6 HITS then yes, one Celestian would need to intercept each of the 6 hits individually.
They can't help St C as she is not an [Order] character.
pretre wrote: I'm wondering about the winning list from this weekend. Apparently, a big GT won by Sisters.
Well I can help you with that:
Spoiler:
Adeptus Ministorum Outrider detachment: HQ: Saint Celestine with BFFs
EL: Ministorum Priest
EL: 9x Arco-flagellants
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 9x Seraphims with 4x inferno pistols
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Rhino with 2x stormbolter
HS: Manticore
HS: Manticore
HS: Heavy Weapon Squad with 3x mortars
DT: Taurox Prime with gatling and 2x hot-shots
DT: Taurox Prime with gatling and 2x hot-shots
Here are the army I faced: Round1: Astra Militarum with lots of guards squads and conscripts
Round2: Magnus + 2 Chaos Knight + Brimstones/Malefic Lords
Round3: SM Raptor brigade with Lias and all the neat DS tricks
Round4: Magnus + 2 tzeentch princes + lots and lots of brimstones/heralds/exalted (oh and also some TS scarab termies)
Round5: Bobby G devastator gunline with a stormraven and conscripts speedbump.
For the defense of my opponent, I went first in every game except the second. Going second in round 3 or 5 would most likely have resulted in me losing those games.
pretre wrote: I'm wondering about the winning list from this weekend. Apparently, a big GT won by Sisters.
Well I can help you with that:
Spoiler:
Adeptus Ministorum Outrider detachment: HQ: Saint Celestine with BFFs
EL: Ministorum Priest
EL: 9x Arco-flagellants
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 9x Seraphims with 4x inferno pistols
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Rhino with 2x stormbolter
HS: Manticore
HS: Manticore
HS: Heavy Weapon Squad with 3x mortars
DT: Taurox Prime with gatling and 2x hot-shots
DT: Taurox Prime with gatling and 2x hot-shots
Here are the army I faced: Round1: Astra Militarum with lots of guards squads and conscripts
Round2: Magnus + 2 Chaos Knight + Brimstones/Malefic Lords
Round3: SM Raptor brigade with Lias and all the neat DS tricks
Round4: Magnus + 2 tzeentch princes + lots and lots of brimstones/heralds/exalted (oh and also some TS scarab termies)
Round5: Bobby G devastator gunline with a stormraven and conscripts speedbump.
For the defense of my opponent, I went first in every game except the second. Going second in round 3 or 5 would most likely have resulted in me losing those games.
So obviously, things went well, but any thoughts on your list and what you would change?
Dionysodorus wrote: Celestians' bodyguard rule triggers when a character loses a wound. A lascannon doesn't cause a model to lose wounds until it rolls damage.
If Celestine fails a save against a lascannon and it rolls a 6 for damage, then Celestine would lose 6 wounds. You roll 6 dice, and for each 2+ you can opt to have the Celestians take a mortal wound in order to ignore one of the wounds on Celestine.
I am no fan of Celestians and do not use them, but I don't believe this is the way the rule reads. It says that "on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit" ....in other words the lascannnon hits ONE time, a Celestian model intercepts the hit on a 2+ and loses a mortal wound. If it were 6 HITS then yes, one Celestian would need to intercept each of the 6 hits individually.
That strikes me as obviously written as flavor text. It's not like "intercept that hit" is a meaningful phrase in the rules -- it's just justifying the rule. And it just doesn't make any sense given the way you resolve attacks. The character lost 6 wounds all at once. If you read the trigger here the same way that you read it for Feel No Pain type rules, that means you roll 6 dice -- they've been clear in FAQs how they mean for this kind of trigger to work.
And of course the rule seems to be written as if you're dealing with one wound at a time. Like, surely if they intended this to turn 6 wounds into 1 mortal wound it would actually say that it can do that. Note that Tyranid Tyrant Guard have the same rule, where a character's lost wound (or wounds?) is converted into a single mortal wound on the unit, but the Tyrant Guard have 3 wounds each. Surely it's not supposed to be the case that 6 lascannon damage on a Hive Tyrant can turn into a single wound on a Tyrant Guard.
pretre wrote: So obviously, things went well, but any thoughts on your list and what you would change?
Well, to be honest right now I don't really know...
So far I never lost when going first with this list (plus/minus some tweaks over time) and lost only 3 times out of now probably 30+ competitive games including BAO, Hammer of Wrath (yesterday's GT) , 3 RTTs and the various competitive training with my local friends. So it works *really* well for now.
Then there is a bit of format pressure. The useless parts are the Cie Commander and the mortars but I need them to keep the IG part in their own detachment to be considered a sister army per ITC restriction (=my biggest detachment needs to be pure Ministorum and/or Sororitas). Otherwise they would be changed for 57pts of other stuff.
Appart from that what to change ? There isn't much choices in the sister index to start with. From my competitive point of view, besides Saint Celestine, dominions, seraphims and our transports there are no other interesting units. I sometimes contemplate the idea of a second seraphim squad: Saint C would single move while both seraphims would double move on turn 1. However, in most games it's more useful to double move Saint C to get some turn1 charges. So it doesn't feel really appealing as an idea.
I certainly don't need more CC units on the ministorum side of my army. The 9 arcos are already monsters and combined with Celestine and the seraphims, I'm happy with my CC capabilities. I liked Frankie's idea of two squads of 5-6 arcos/DCA in a couple flammolators so I might try that in the future but i need to find the points somewhere else.
Finally the AM part... well it's pretty straightforward. The tauroxes are amazing at killing light infantry while the two manticore are perfect complement of my short range melta rush.
The only thing I really tried to fit somehow in my list is a combi-melta for all 4 dominion superiors. But that's pricey and makes me less resilient overall. I have yet to find a solution that pleases me. Otherwise here's a few ideas I've been tinkering with:
- a squad of 5-6 raven guard aggressors. Those guy can "infiltrate" and throw an insane amount of shots S4. Basically they would do a better job than the tauroxes while having some power-fist ability, but they feel a lot more fragile too.
- including some DSing plasma Scions. No need to present them, it's more raw power that can't be killed until it did something.
When I first got the Index I spent a lot of time staring at my 6 Arco Flagellants, thinking they had some real potential with a priest trundling about in a Rhino. For the time being I'm doing just fine with a few BSS in a Battalion but if I ever decide I don't really need CP's I'm going to drop a squad and try those nutty guys out. Currently, Celestine and an Eviscerator Canoness have been tackling all my melee needs and they have proven adequate.
Does anyone use Seraphim as fast-moving tank hunters? With two Seraphims carrying twin melta pistols, that's 4 melta shots that can go into a tank or other high-T model. Since Seraphim can potentially double move now, they can get into those rear enemy areas rather quickly. Even though the Inferno Pistols are a bit expensive each at just one point more than a Seraphim, they're still 8 pts cheaper than what Blood Angels pay, and they are melta weapons.
I don't like running my Seraphims without a threat weapon (and the flamers were nerfed so bad I won't use them) because it makes them nothing more than a nuisance to the opponent.
I run 8-10 Seraphims with 4 Inferno Pistols doing double-duty as tank-hunters and giving Celestine some protection. Their 5/6++ rerollable is nice but I find most opponents just shoot massed bolter equivalents at them, and their basic 3+ save is enough to hold them for a turn or two.
How do most of you run your Seraphims? Any tips or power moves you like using with them?
Exactly like that for the same reasons. At this point it's become the common wisdom. if you're running big C you need a squad of seraphim as they're literally the only thing in the sisters codex that can soak for her without her being artificially constrained. if you're taking a unit and upgrading the weapons you're taking inferno pistols because hand flamers are rubbish.
I use them that way. My Melta Dominions priority are Monsters>tanks, since they are more resilient in repressor. Tanks don't retaliate well in cc, so seraphims are great to lock them. But just locking isn't very unit efficient use. While not point efficient, inferno pistols are unit efficient. Putting dent into landrider, softening it if seraphim's going to be wiped is what I aim for. This enables me to AF shoot(and probably destroy tank) and then fall back from cc if my opponent charged me (very likely) and didn't wipe the squad. If two rounds off melta didn't work, i can still split fire inferno pistols into tank and bp to other unit in cc.
Works great in 1000-1200 points range. I usually drop them last with celestine, after my opponent drops most of his drops and I see good target for them. This way my opponent can't ignore them.
5 squads of Dominions in Immolators, a squad of Seraphim, big C and 4 penitent engines because i will have about 1500 points of my 2k list in you're deployment zone on turn 1.
What do you use as plasma substitute? Or more like reliable TEQ killer unit? Is it good idea to get Imperial Knight for this job? Are there any semi-reliable SoB unit for this in your opinion?
I don't want to use other infantry or tanks than sister one. Flyers and LoW are ok since sister don't have any on their own.
Spera wrote: What do you use as plasma substitute? Or more like reliable TEQ killer unit? Is it good idea to get Imperial Knight for this job? Are there any semi-reliable SoB unit for this in your opinion?
I don't want to use other infantry or tanks than sister one. Flyers and LoW are ok since sister don't have any on their own.
This. Melta is your plasma, it doesn't have the range but it has the damage potential and you can load up on enough melta to make a Salamander green with envy.
To the poster who asked about Seraphim with Inferno pistols: oh absolutely yes you want them. Point for point they're probably the single best unit in the index if you use Faith to move them twice. My best results with them has been to jump closest to an enemy character and assassinate them and dive on unsuspecting Land Raiders. They combo perfectly with Celestine, just don't expect them to accomplish anything in melee outside of keeping something from shooting. They look like an assault unit, but they are most assuredly a gun platform.
So with the updates to ob-sec and clarifications with how it works, I'm updating my list a little bit and adding BSS (never thought I would). I also added a Manticore after RabbitMaster's performance last weekend. This will be for a heavily maelstrom event that uses the turn by turn win on maelstrom system, so focus on getting objectives is really important.
10 CP at 2k
Battalion (+3 CP) HQ - Company Commander (Laspistol/Chainsword) - 30 HQ - Lord Commissar (BP/Power Sword) - 55
Battalion (+3 CP) HQ - St Celestine & one Gemini - 200 HQ - Canoness with Power Maul/BP - 49
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Sup with Chainsword/BP/Bolter - 118 DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90 Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Sup with Chainsword/BP/Bolter - 118 DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90 Fast - 5 Seraphim, Superior with BP/Power Sword - 59
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51 DT - Immolator with IF - 103 Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51 DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90 Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51 DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB, Sup with Bolter/BP/Chainsword  - 85 Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB, Sup with Bolter/BP/Chainsword  - 85
Hey peeps, popping in once more for those of you who were interested in my counts-as Repressor conversion, I've uploaded a gun turret and a flamethrower that work with it and my Gothic Bubble Canopy (in case anyone's lost the official ones, since that happens), and I've started a thread for them here.
I would actually recommend two 5-girl BSS in repressors. They have exactly 6 storm bolters between the ten girls, and thus they can fire all six out the fire ports.
Melissia wrote: I would actually recommend two 5-girl BSS in repressors. They have exactly 6 storm bolters between the ten girls, and thus they can fire all six out the fire ports.
I was thinking about doubling up, but wanted to have more coverage on the board. Let me look though. edit: I also have a weird hangup on doubling up on transports I probably need to get over.
davidgr33n wrote: Is minimizing the number of drops no longer as important as having plenty of ObSec on the ground?
It's not. But doubling up in transports does allow you to drop off a squad on an objective while having the other squad still protected by the transport.
Between the addition of Obsec, the go-first mechanic being mission specific, and deployment being where the game is lost... I think that having the option to double up BSS in a repressor is a good option to have.
I don't think that doubling up is always the right choice, but having the option adds flexibility.
I'm sudden;y hesitant to go entirely with Repressors.
Repressors don't have 12" range on their Heavy Flamers, and can't carry Multimeltas.
I've had a lot of good things out of my MM Immolators, since they can reach the enemy artillery on Hammer and Anvil and get melta-range over IG infantry.
I am questioning if I want the Immolation Flamers for their overwatch ability, because Repressors don't get to fire their heavy flamers in overwatch, while Immolators do. The thing it, it won't stop a Trygon Prime, so I'm not sure if it's going to get the chance to fire at 'stealers and 'gaunts.
Repressors don't have 12" range on their Heavy Flamers, and can't carry Multimeltas.
I've had a lot of good things out of my MM Immolators, since they can reach the enemy artillery on Hammer and Anvil and get melta-range over IG infantry.
I am questioning if I want the Immolation Flamers for their overwatch ability, because Repressors don't get to fire their heavy flamers in overwatch, while Immolators do. The thing it, it won't stop a Trygon Prime, so I'm not sure if it's going to get the chance to fire at 'stealers and 'gaunts.
I have greater access to Immolators than Repressors, obviously. Do you think the dual-MM Immolator by itself is a good anti-tank 'tank' (if Sisters had to pick one) to cover the gaps in my footslogger's AT? I can fill it with melta-doms, too, of course.
Repressors don't have 12" range on their Heavy Flamers, and can't carry Multimeltas.
I've had a lot of good things out of my MM Immolators, since they can reach the enemy artillery on Hammer and Anvil and get melta-range over IG infantry.
I am questioning if I want the Immolation Flamers for their overwatch ability, because Repressors don't get to fire their heavy flamers in overwatch, while Immolators do. The thing it, it won't stop a Trygon Prime, so I'm not sure if it's going to get the chance to fire at 'stealers and 'gaunts.
Keep in mind the Heavy Flamers do get to Overwatch, and to devastating effect, on chargers within 8", and on those chargers outside of 9", hoping for re-rolls, adrenal glands, etc... you weren't going to deny them much by going with a Multi-Melta and Immolation Flamer, but losing out on the more general game-impacting value of firing points.
Plus, with smart placement of models, you're using Dominions in Repressors to deny a huge amount of table-space as valid locations for deep-strikers. That value can't be quantified in math-hammer, but has a huge impact on the game.
Repressors don't have 12" range on their Heavy Flamers, and can't carry Multimeltas.
I've had a lot of good things out of my MM Immolators, since they can reach the enemy artillery on Hammer and Anvil and get melta-range over IG infantry.
I am questioning if I want the Immolation Flamers for their overwatch ability, because Repressors don't get to fire their heavy flamers in overwatch, while Immolators do. The thing it, it won't stop a Trygon Prime, so I'm not sure if it's going to get the chance to fire at 'stealers and 'gaunts.
I have greater access to Immolators than Repressors, obviously. Do you think the dual-MM Immolator by itself is a good anti-tank 'tank' (if Sisters had to pick one) to cover the gaps in my footslogger's AT? I can fill it with melta-doms, too, of course.
It's expensive, but it works. I put a H-K missile and Multimeltas on some of them. On Dawn of War, they don't have to move on turn 1, so I can fire all my weapons at full BS. On Hammer and Anvil, the ability to harass a Manticore is worth quite a bit. H-K missiles only go so far.
Repressors don't have 12" range on their Heavy Flamers, and can't carry Multimeltas.
I've had a lot of good things out of my MM Immolators, since they can reach the enemy artillery on Hammer and Anvil and get melta-range over IG infantry.
I am questioning if I want the Immolation Flamers for their overwatch ability, because Repressors don't get to fire their heavy flamers in overwatch, while Immolators do. The thing it, it won't stop a Trygon Prime, so I'm not sure if it's going to get the chance to fire at 'stealers and 'gaunts.
Keep in mind the Heavy Flamers do get to Overwatch, and to devastating effect, on chargers within 8", and on those chargers outside of 9", hoping for re-rolls, adrenal glands, etc... you weren't going to deny them much by going with a Multi-Melta and Immolation Flamer, but losing out on the more general game-impacting value of firing points.
Plus, with smart placement of models, you're using Dominions in Repressors to deny a huge amount of table-space as valid locations for deep-strikers. That value can't be quantified in math-hammer, but has a huge impact on the game.
Not having at least 10" of range is basically "doesn't get to fire overwatch."
Everything that's going to charge and isn't already dead does so out of Deep Strike. In addition, it's virtually impossible to actually secure an anti-deepstrike perimeter, because they can always deliver their Genestealers within their own deployment zone.
Here's the thing, I don't think the overwatch is really worthwhile, because, even if you've only presented a Immo-Flamer Immolator to the enemy as a charge target, they'll lead with a Trygon.
So I'm thinking Repressors [2x SB, 1x Flamer, H-K Missile] and MM Immolators in some combination will be the ideal mix.
pretre wrote: I'm wondering about the winning list from this weekend. Apparently, a big GT won by Sisters.
Well I can help you with that:
Spoiler:
Adeptus Ministorum Outrider detachment: HQ: Saint Celestine with BFFs
EL: Ministorum Priest
EL: 9x Arco-flagellants
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 9x Seraphims with 4x inferno pistols
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Rhino with 2x stormbolter
HS: Manticore
HS: Manticore
HS: Heavy Weapon Squad with 3x mortars
DT: Taurox Prime with gatling and 2x hot-shots
DT: Taurox Prime with gatling and 2x hot-shots
Here are the army I faced: Round1: Astra Militarum with lots of guards squads and conscripts
Round2: Magnus + 2 Chaos Knight + Brimstones/Malefic Lords
Round3: SM Raptor brigade with Lias and all the neat DS tricks
Round4: Magnus + 2 tzeentch princes + lots and lots of brimstones/heralds/exalted (oh and also some TS scarab termies)
Round5: Bobby G devastator gunline with a stormraven and conscripts speedbump.
For the defense of my opponent, I went first in every game except the second. Going second in round 3 or 5 would most likely have resulted in me losing those games.
A knight could also fill that roll the IG are filling couldn't it? Some of those shoot as much as the IG stuff you got there, it's easier to transport, and it's somewhat competent in CC if you need it to be.
pretre wrote: So, if I dropped the Immo, I could get a total of 4 BSS with 3 SB in 2 Repressors. Add back in the Combi-Plasma and 2 Seras for 2k even.
My 2 cents on your list:
- swap the Cie Commander for a tempestor.
- get a second plasma command squad (2 tempestor = 4 orders, so always good to actually have 4).
- pay a plasma pistol on the scion sarges (you really want to maximise their impact when they drop and overcharge like crazy).
I would suggest to drop one retributor squad for points. They're not that good and you already have one to use the act of faith if needs be.
pretre wrote: I'm wondering about the winning list from this weekend. Apparently, a big GT won by Sisters.
Well I can help you with that:
Spoiler:
Adeptus Ministorum Outrider detachment: HQ: Saint Celestine with BFFs
EL: Ministorum Priest
EL: 9x Arco-flagellants
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 5x Dominions with 4x meltaguns
FA: 9x Seraphims with 4x inferno pistols
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Repressor with heavy-flamer and 2x stormbolter
DT: Rhino with 2x stormbolter
HS: Manticore
HS: Manticore
HS: Heavy Weapon Squad with 3x mortars
DT: Taurox Prime with gatling and 2x hot-shots
DT: Taurox Prime with gatling and 2x hot-shots
Here are the army I faced: Round1: Astra Militarum with lots of guards squads and conscripts
Round2: Magnus + 2 Chaos Knight + Brimstones/Malefic Lords
Round3: SM Raptor brigade with Lias and all the neat DS tricks
Round4: Magnus + 2 tzeentch princes + lots and lots of brimstones/heralds/exalted (oh and also some TS scarab termies)
Round5: Bobby G devastator gunline with a stormraven and conscripts speedbump.
For the defense of my opponent, I went first in every game except the second. Going second in round 3 or 5 would most likely have resulted in me losing those games.
A knight could also fill that roll the IG are filling couldn't it? Some of those shoot as much as the IG stuff you got there, it's easier to transport, and it's somewhat competent in CC if you need it to be.
It works too but it's not as optimal. I did play a knight along my sisters earlier in 8th and it was okay but ultimately it's the same issue as always: every good competitive army can down a knight in one phase, and some units out there are excessively efficient at removing a single high value target. In the end I preferred diluting my threats in multiple squads. Plus it actually gives me more units in my backfield to cover more ground (vs deepstrikers) and have people on my objectives. Also having some shooting with no LoS required is very important those days.
Finally the knight can replace the manticores, but not the Tauroxes. I need to be able to remove a boat load of conscripts turn 1.
RabbitMaster wrote: My 2 cents on your list:
- swap the Cie Commander for a tempestor.
- get a second plasma command squad (2 tempestor = 4 orders, so always good to actually have 4).
- pay a plasma pistol on the scion sarges (you really want to maximise their impact when they drop and overcharge like crazy).
I would suggest to drop one retributor squad for points. They're not that good and you already have one to use the act of faith if needs be.
Wow. I didn't realize guard PP were only 5 points. That's a nice catch. Gets me 2 PP, an extra CS with Plasma and an extra Seraphim model.
10 CP at 2k
Battalion (+3 CP)
HQ - Tempestor with Command Rod - 40
HQ - Lord Commissar (BP/Power Sword) - 55
Ob-Sec Troop - 35 Conscripts - 105
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma and PP - 64
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma and PP - 64
Heavy - Manticore with HB - 133
Elite - 4 Tempestus Scions with 4 Plasma - 64
Battalion (+3 CP)
HQ - St Celestine & one Gemini - 200
HQ - Canoness with Power Maul/BP - 49
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Sup with Chainsword/BP/CombiP - 133
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Sup with Chainsword/BP/CombiP - 133
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Fast - 8 Seraphim, Superior with BP/Power Sword - 92
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB, Sup with Bolter/BP/Chainsword  - 85
A Repressor doesn't have Vanguard if it's carrying 8 MM.
True that.
Just pointing out that you don't need an immo for mobile MM. And the talk was partially about two BSS with SB sharing a repressor. They don't have vanguard movements either.
pretre wrote: Wow. I didn't realize guard PP were only 5 points. That's a nice catch. Gets me 2 PP, an extra CS with Plasma and an extra Seraphim model.
Yep Scions options are incredibly cheap because they're priced for regular guardsmen. Don't forget to pay the mandatory 1pts hotshot lasgun on the remaining 2 guys though.
Also quick math: it's worth advancing if it means your SB will be in half range (important for those BSS repressors). Finally if you can, pay a second SB on the repressors and inferno pistols on the seraphims
pretre wrote: Wow. I didn't realize guard PP were only 5 points. That's a nice catch. Gets me 2 PP, an extra CS with Plasma and an extra Seraphim model.
Yep Scions options are incredibly cheap because they're priced for regular guardsmen. Don't forget to pay the mandatory 1pts hotshot lasgun on the remaining 2 guys though.
Also quick math: it's worth advancing if it means your SB will be in half range (important for those BSS repressors). Finally if you can, pay a second SB on the repressors and inferno pistols on the seraphims
Inferno pistols are just so expensive. :( I can probably get the extra SB for the vehicles though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Updated for RM's feedback.
10 CP at 2k
Battalion (+3 CP)
HQ - Tempestor with Command Rod - 40
HQ - Lord Commissar (BP/Power Sword) - 55
Ob-Sec Troop - 36 Conscripts - 108
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma and PP, 2 Hotshots - 66
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma and PP, 2 Hotshots - 66
Heavy - Manticore with HB - 133
Elite - 4 Tempestus Scions with 4 Plasma - 64
Battalion (+3 CP)
HQ - St Celestine & one Gemini - 200
HQ - Canoness with Power Maul/BP - 49
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Sup with Chainsword/BP/CombiP - 133
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Sup with Chainsword/BP/CombiP - 133
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Fast - 8 Seraphim, Superior with BP/Power Sword - 92
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51
DT - Repressor with HF/SBx2 - 92
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51
DT - Repressor with HF/SBx2 - 92
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB, Sup with Bolter/BP/Chainsword  - 85
Automatically Appended Next Post: On a side note, luckily I have a stack of Repentia chainswords from a trade that I can use to convert all of my superiors to have Chainswords.
You could remove the combi plasma from the doms and that useless powersword to pay the inferno pistols no ? It makes the seraphims more of a threat while not putting all your eggs in the dom basket.
I know the powersword is probably here for WYSIWYG reasons but still (personnaly I use a regular seraphim for the superior, i simply painted her guns gold to make her stand out in the squad)
So I read through all of the tactics thread today, slow day at work, and I'm impressed with how well sisters are right now.
So I was thinking of def adding St. C and a squad of retributors with HBs to my list of guard, seems like a bargain for 4 HBs that have a very good chance of shooting twice each turn.
Do you think I should keep them at min with the superior with a SB? Or go for like a squad of 8?
RabbitMaster wrote: You could remove the combi plasma from the doms and that useless powersword to pay the inferno pistols no ? It makes the seraphims more of a threat while not putting all your eggs in the dom basket.
I know the powersword is probably here for WYSIWYG reasons but still (personnaly I use a regular seraphim for the superior, i simply painted her guns gold to make her stand out in the squad)
Combis get me 30, power sword 4 and then I have to do some juggling.
10 CP at 2k
Battalion (+3 CP) HQ - Tempestor with Command Rod - 40 HQ - Lord Commissar (BP/Power Sword) - 55
Ob-Sec Troop - 32 Conscripts - 96 Ob-Sec Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma and PP, 2 Hotshots - 66 Ob-Sec Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma and PP, 2 Hotshots - 66
Heavy - Manticore with HB - 133 Elite - 4 Tempestus Scions with 4 Plasma - 64
Battalion (+3 CP) HQ - St Celestine & one Gemini - 200 HQ - Canoness with Power Maul/BP - 49
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Sup with Chainsword/BP/Bolter - 118 DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90 Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Sup with Chainsword/BP/Bolter - 118 DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90 Fast - 7 Seraphim, 4 Inferno Pistols, Superior with Chainsword/BP - 125
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51 Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51 DT - Repressor with HF/SBx2 - 92 Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51 Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51 DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB, Sup with Bolter/BP/Chainsword  - 85
ChobitsCrazy wrote: Do you think I should keep them at min with the superior with a SB? Or go for like a squad of 8?
That's entirely up to your preferences. Having more bodies means you'll lose firepower more slowly because the opponent needs to kill the bolter girls first before starting removing heavy bolters. However it's more expensive and those points could finance another unit and thus more firepower.
Both ways have pros and cons. Try them and see which one you prefer.
RabbitMaster wrote: You could remove the combi plasma from the doms and that useless powersword to pay the inferno pistols no ? It makes the seraphims more of a threat while not putting all your eggs in the dom basket.
I know the powersword is probably here for WYSIWYG reasons but still (personnaly I use a regular seraphim for the superior, i simply painted her guns gold to make her stand out in the squad)
Combis get me 30, power sword 4 and then I have to do some juggling.
10 CP at 2k
Battalion (+3 CP)
HQ - Tempestor with Command Rod - 40
HQ - Lord Commissar (BP/Power Sword) - 55
Ob-Sec Troop - 32 Conscripts - 96
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma and PP, 2 Hotshots - 66
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 Tempestus Scions with 2 Plasma and PP, 2 Hotshots - 66
Heavy - Manticore with HB - 133
Elite - 4 Tempestus Scions with 4 Plasma - 64
Battalion (+3 CP)
HQ - St Celestine & one Gemini - 200
HQ - Canoness with Power Maul/BP - 49
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Sup with Chainsword/BP/Bolter - 118
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Fast - 5 Doms with 4 Melta, Sup with Chainsword/BP/Bolter - 118
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Fast - 7 Seraphim, 4 Inferno Pistols, Superior with Chainsword/Power Sword - 125
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51
DT - Repressor with HF/SBx2 - 92
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51
Ob-Sec Troop - 5 BSS with 2 Storm Bolters, Sup with StormB/BP/Chainsword - 51
DT - Repressor with HF/SB - 90
Heavy - 5 Ret with 4 HB, Sup with Bolter/BP/Chainsword  - 85
I'm still not sure how ObSec will work here. Scions are in their own detachment, so they don't interfere with the ObSec on the BSS's. Right?
Seems weird that we are building lists that don't have exorcists or repentia or penitent engines.
Anpu-adom wrote: I'm still not sure how ObSec will work here. Scions are in their own detachment, so they don't interfere with the ObSec on the BSS's. Right?
Seems weird that we are building lists that don't have exorcists or repentia or penitent engines.
Right, so the pure Guard detachment gets ob-sec because it is pure and the pure sister detachment gets obsec because it is pure. And yes, it feels weird not fielding exorcists.
pretre wrote: Just converted two inferno pistol seraphim from Heavy flamer sisters, BA inferno pistols and seraphim jetpacks. Yay.
Hah, that's a cool idea. Do you have any pictures? Those heavy weapon bodies are surprisingly versatile for conversions.
Still need paint on the inferno arms and I need to repaint the chainsword for the sup to not be an eviscerator anymore (remove the blue). They are shorter than Seraphim, obviously, but I don't imagine that will be a problem. I was too lazy to light box them, but you get the idea.
I may have to try this if I ever make a guns-akimbo canoness.
Since you've worked with one so recently, does the retributor model have wires going around her back depending on what weapon she usually comes with? I'm wondering how interchangeable the big guns are, to give the Sisters carrying them some variety.
I may have to try this if I ever make a guns-akimbo canoness.
Since you've worked with one so recently, does the retributor model have wires going around her back depending on what weapon she usually comes with? I'm wondering how interchangeable the big guns are, to give the Sisters carrying them some variety.
MM Heavies (Helmeted heavy) have a ammo/power feed.
HF Heavies (Gas Mask) have a gas feed.
HB Heavies (targeting eye) have an ammo box.
Very cool. That's got me wondering, I currently have 6 stormbolter sisters but maybe 5-6 unbuilt rets that I could put some gauntlets on, and I probably have 20 Terminator stormbolter arms from various starter kits. I might be able to make something good work out of that. The ret models could probably make for good, distinct Superiors with SBs if I use the normal SB sisters as normal SB sisters.
Or that might be worth taking a stab at modelling something up in CAD and printing.
Zefig wrote: Very cool. That's got me wondering, I currently have 6 stormbolter sisters but maybe 5-6 unbuilt rets that I could put some gauntlets on, and I probably have 20 Terminator stormbolter arms from various starter kits. I might be able to make something good work out of that. The ret models could probably make for good, distinct Superiors with SBs if I use the normal SB sisters as normal SB sisters.
Or that might be worth taking a stab at modelling something up in CAD and printing.
The hands will be a bit big for SOB, if they are termy, but you can easily get SB on Rets. If they're Superiors, make sure the other hand is a chainsword and get a holster on there for a BP.
edit: It's the same theory as the Melta sisters I made out of rets. One hand with special weapon for whatever and then other for either free hand or chainsword.
For sister superiors (Have slightly different paint jobs to differentiate, apart from weapons):
The standard sister you get with the grenade in her mouth is prime for any combi-weap (just shave the top off the bolter and add in a combi part from the marine kit with green stuff and purity seals, if want a melee weapon like a power axe etc, just model it on the base (magnetised so can inter change or leave off). She just threw that weapon down to throw a grenade ). I convert up weapons that have a full handle etc for the base.
For storm bolters (I have a gak tonne standard tbh) but for some extra I just used some extra sister superior models with the bolter held out and the icon in other hand. Simply cut the bolter off and added a storm bolter (bitz buy from sternguard kits).
For Seraphim:
The twin inferno pistols: Like above I just bought a heap of inferno pistols (bitz buy) from the blood angels kit and chopped off the bolt pistols from normal seraphim and added them (think I cut a few off the twin flamers cause some have gas masks as well, been awhile). Looks good.
For superiors when I run with plasma pistol and chainsword, Just used the plasma pistol/chainsword normal BSS model, added a seraphim backpack and bent the feet down (I do all my seraphim with the clear flying stick onto a modeled base). Looks good.
For superior with plasma pistol and bolt pistol (is what I use, when take seraphim atm): just converted a normal seraphim by cutting a bolt pistol and adding a plasma pistol from vanguard set, different paint job.
If want wings instead of normal backpack for seraphim, can use blood angels sanguinary guard, swooping hawks or scourges are easy ways.
For repressors:
I use Cities of Death terrain pieces mixed with immolator pieces and MKIIC Rhino Dozer blade on front from forge world.
Think everything else I just bought the standard models (and added in some purity seals etc). I don't buy much any more have a pretty big sob army. However, I did strip some stuff and converted some just for this edition so thought would share some tips to save money.
Spectral Ceramite wrote: For storm bolters (I have a gak tonne standard tbh) but for some extra I just used some extra sister superior models with the bolter held out and the icon in other hand. Simply cut the bolter off and added a storm bolter (bitz buy from sternguard kits).
These make GREAT Superior with SB conversions since they have a holstered pistol and a sword in scabbard. It's hard to find a SB/BP/Chainsword otherwise.
The twin inferno pistols: Like above I just bought a heap of inferno pistols (bitz buy) from the blood angels kit and chopped off the bolt pistols from normal seraphim and added them (think I cut a few off the twin flamers cause some have gas masks as well, been awhile). Looks good.
I was going to do this but didn't want to chop off my seraphim.
If want wings instead of normal backpack for seraphim, can use blood angels sanguinary guard, swooping hawks or scourges are easy ways.
Mine are a conversion of Seraphim backpacks and the old metal swooping hawk wings. I bought a metric ton when you could still order bits by weight from GW.
Depends how many seraphim you have from your old conversions I suppose. I never really liked them (still on the fence, only thing they have is cheap for movement, can screen Cel (With a faith), can harass to an extent, possible double shot if enemy crazy espec when run with some twin inferno... etc. I did buy some more recently and did some superior conversions (think have 40 or so now + all my Superiors) just in case...
Not to you but to people reading about the conversions I mentioned when i say cut off I mean cut off the marine hand... you don't want them to look like monkey hands i.e. with massive hands )
While Katherine takes a Shadowsword, I was thinking of having my sort of ill-led Crusade getting its hands on a Valdor Tank Hunter. Would it be plausible for a Valdor Tank Hunter to be crewed by militia types? It's age and whatnot makes me think it is plausible that there would be one lying around...
While Katherine takes a Shadowsword, I was thinking of having my sort of ill-led Crusade getting its hands on a Valdor Tank Hunter. Would it be plausible for a Valdor Tank Hunter to be crewed by militia types? It's age and whatnot makes me think it is plausible that there would be one lying around...
I always use the Inquisition as my excuse. My MilTemp are inquisitorial ST, my manticore is seconded to the inquisition, my dev cents were inquisitorial. Pretty much, if I ally it with my SOB, it was probably seconded to the inquisition. It's amazing what a Hereticus Inquisitor Lord can get his hands on with his seal.
I prefer to keep my Sisters separate, but there's nothing wrong with having a "crusade" army of a regiment led by (de facto, if not de jure) a canoness and fighting alongside her sisters.
Melissia wrote: I prefer to keep my Sisters separate, but there's nothing wrong with having a "crusade" army of a regiment led by (de facto, if not de jure) a canoness and fighting alongside her sisters.
I like this idea, but I like to keep my detachments visually separate, so don't want to mix a canoness into that.
taking this to a tourny today. 1750pts
HQ cannoness combi plasma
HQSt Celestine, 1 geminia (warlord 6+fnp)
Elite 8 dca
Elite priest
Troops 5 sisters, 2 melta guns
Troops 5 sisters, 2 melta guns
Troops 5 sisters, 2 melta guns
Transport twin flamer immolator
Transport twin flamer immolator, hunter killer missile
Transport twin flamer immolator, hunter killer missile
Transport rhino with storm bolter, hunter killer missile
Fast 5 dominions, storm bolter
Fast 5 dominions
Fast 5 seraphim, 2 with melta pistol, chainsword/bp Heavy 2 penitent engines
HQ space marine libby on bike with sword (iron hands)
Elite culexus
I've included a librarian on bike for the following reason.... it doesn't matter how many melta guns i bring if my opponent has something like magnus with re-roll1s 3++ saves. OR they bring a ton of invulnerable saves. The librarian is there to move/advance and cast nullzone to shut down invuls. With a 20 inch movement and 6 inch bubble.. he'll let my meltas do their work when needed.
I'm bringing penitent engines cause i want to this event. Love the model, they make me sad that they are over costed....(how ever they would be correctly costed if they always got 2 activations in the fight phase!)
the seraphim are a missile unit... i'll basically send them in with double movement to take care of a problem that i can't deal with...
Melissia wrote: I prefer to keep my Sisters separate, but there's nothing wrong with having a "crusade" army of a regiment led by (de facto, if not de jure) a canoness and fighting alongside her sisters.
I like this idea, but I like to keep my detachments visually separate, so don't want to mix a canoness into that.
Could have them visually distinct, but the canoness as the overall warlord.
I say canoness because I don't like using named characters and she's all we have; for someone without that restriction, you'd use Celestine, with the guard forces bowing to her decisions as a warlord for obvious reasons.
pretre wrote: Why meltas on your sisters and not your dominions? And no repressors?What are the transport assignments for your troops?
So... I use my dominions as screening units since they have the pregame move. they literally prevent a lot of drop alphas, and give me a turn to fire at stuff that tries to hit me first turn. Pushes back a lot of BS... The sisters are obsec since we are using the rules for nova, and the dominions I know are going to die. To be honest, i don't have assignments for the troops/doms most games. I'll adjust based on my opponents deployment, but the Death cults and priest are pretty much always in the rhino.
I don't own repressors... but the extra range on the immolator flamers is more my style anyways.
Also... won all three games by tabling my opponents (although last two conceded before i could kill every unit... but i had more turns to do so)
Round 1 was space wolves with fire raptor, flying transport, small flyer, claw terminators (in the flying transport), arjac, and 2 venerable shield/ax dreads.
We played the konor mission (not balanced at all...) and i was defender. He flew his transport at me, behind my tanks and shot up the penitent engines... used his other flyers to do the same as well as shooting transports... but didn't focus fire well enough to kill off tanks but he did get first blood off the penitents. My turn 1.... i faith move the seraphim then jump them in the regular move so they are 3 inches away from the fireraptor. I faith move celestine up in that area also... which also happened to be next to his small flyer (not sure on name). The seraphim and celestine are now in range of assault from the dreads next turn... (BAIT)... but they are 24 inches from my space marine libby on bike with nullzone. I surround his other flyer full of termis and arjac with my sisters with meltas and also a very wounded immolator... and then... blow it up with the meltas/flamers from the immos. the units inside can't deploy and die. The melta seraphim knock the fire raptor down to 2 hull points... and the hunter killer missiles get a hit on the small flyer knocking it down to 5 hull points. Celestine assaults the small flyer... killing it. then consolidates into the fire raptor which doesn't hit her in combat.
Opponents turn 2, he moves and assaults with dreads... moves the fire raptor in hover mode into melta range of all the sisters trying to blow it up so he can roll to get it back later... then fails to get any of his units back except the small flyer that goes into reserve.... celestine goes down to 2 wounds from the dreads hitting her...
my turn 2. ONE sisters melta unit faith moves closer to the dreads to shoot meltas then moves closer again so they are within 6 inches. celestine uses faith for free swings doing 2 more damage throught he 3++ then moves away with fall back in movement phase. libby boosts past the fire raptor, meltas position to shoot it down, and the DCA and priest disembark to assault the raptor if they fail to shoot it. Psyker phase the libby pops nullzone, then smites the closer dread. Shooting phase... seraphim blow up one dread (without invuls thanks to nullzone...) and then the last dread dies to meltas since it doesn't get an invul or armor. Opponent is left with a 2 wound raptor about to get shot... and concedes that he was tabled... game 1 done in 30 min.... I then realize i forgot to bring in my culexus and didn't even remember to deploy the dominions....
Game 2 was genestealers/swarmlord/broodlord/2 biovores/3 warriors/exocrine/termagaunts(lots)/ hiver guard with impalers/trygon prime. Mission was hammer/Anvil (rolled), and kill points. I'll write this up later... but here is where i used the dominions to zone out my opponent and get the drop on stuff. Game went 4 turns
Game 3 was vs Ynari... also only went 2 turns... will write up later.
I'll also try to make up diagrams of the tables/where I deployed stuff.
never mind. i figured out why i'm stupid. i'm assuming that the answer is that the shield of faith is a separate invulnerable save. so technically she has a 4+ from the Armour of Saint Katherine and a totally separate 6+(becoming 5+) from her shield of faith, and then we only get the stronger one (as opposed to a 4+/5+?) is my logic correct? my gratefulness ahead of time
Automatically Appended Next Post: okay... to further my problem i have found an article on overlapped abilities and a possibly relevant faq ( in regards to tenacious survivor and disgustingly resilient). which now suggests that in fact we SHOULD be getting 4+/5+ invulnerable saves.... now i'm really confused. please help
Automatically Appended Next Post: apologies. missed your post. but she does have shield of faith herself
Automatically Appended Next Post: nevermind, it would seem that she does have two invulnerable saves. but brb states "if a model has more than one invulnerable save, it can only use one of them - choose which it will use." so it turns out i'm simply stupid. thank you
Not stupid, it just isn't clear. To make things more muddy though, for a short amount of time (pre-faq), you could take more than one Celestine and the abilities could stack.
pretre wrote: Not stupid, it just isn't clear. To make things more muddy though, for a short amount of time (pre-faq), you could take more than one Celestine and the abilities could stack.
And for that brief moment, there was wailing and crying and lamenting. So much that the Emperor grew tired of hearing it and sought to enrich his Sororitas and empower them through ensuring that they were not denied suffering in His name by the protection and presence of a multitude of Living Saints. For in truth, even one Living Saint upon the field shining as a beacon to His Sororitas and harbinger of His wrath was too much for the Heretics, Mutants, and Xenos.
What does a Sisters core army need that melta Dominions, Celestine +Serephim, and Repressors cannot provide?
Objective Secured, of course. BSS can cover this, but so can Scions or IG vets for cheaper.
Dealing with TEQ stat lines at range. We do have Exorcists here, but IG manticore seem to do it better, or at least without saving a CP reroll or two.
Counter charge. Death Cult Assasions or Arco-flagellants with a priest in a rhino seems to be the way to go.
We don't have any sort of cheap bubble wrap. But a lot of our lists seem to be aggressive enough not to use it.
Arcos won't do much on TEQ (2+ save is their bane), better go with DCA if they become popular. Celestine is pretty good at dealing with TEQ: she has AP-3 which is exactly what you need to trigger the usual 5++ and she deals 2 damage per swing. Plus she can take the hit from their nasty weapons with the 4++.
The one thing we are desperately lacking is a way to inflict mortal wounds. With stuff like Magnus under the new power to get a 3++ reroll 1s, meltaguns are not the solution anymore. We need to be able to inflict mortals or remove problematic invulnerables (and we need allies for both).
Only thing that makes me nervous with sisters is if someone brings a heavy air list with a lot of supersonic fliers that become hard to hit and just avoid everything. Other than that... nothing?
Flyers really don't like meltas. -1 to hit hurts but it's not the end of our world.
And if he brings too many flyers, simply focus the units on the ground for an easy win.
RabbitMaster wrote: Flyers really don't like meltas. -1 to hit hurts but it's not the end of our world.
And if he brings too many flyers, simply focus the units on the ground for an easy win.
Yeah, but as I was saying, the only thing that makes me slightly nervous is all since meltas can have short range.
Yeah, but as I was saying, the only thing that makes me slightly nervous is all since meltas can have short range.
I wouldn't sweat flyers all that much. Melta range may be "short," but they come on a lot of very mobile platforms - Seraphim, Dominions, Immolators if you want. Seraphim with inferno pistols can lay down 4x melta shots on anything within 30" of their starting location with an act of faith. Foot sisters can do it from 24" + 2d6" with an act of faith - meltaguns are Assault, so you can still advance and fire them, albeit on 5s against supersonic flyers. Still a good option if the alternative is no shots at all. Lastly, Celestine can carve up flyers in close combat.
If there's one thing Sisters excel at, it's putting Meltas on target over large distances. I'd argue we do it better than anyone but Guard.
If I were playing pure Sisters, the thing I'd be worried about is 2+ save 2/3 wound targets. Things that neither bolters nor meltaguns kill efficiently that preys on our lack of access to plasma or other 2/3 damage weapons. I choose to solve that problem with Scions, but there are many ways to fill that gap in our armory. I think the best solution within Adepta Ministorum is actually Penitent Engines, but they can be tough to field well.
pretre wrote: Why meltas on your sisters and not your dominions? And no repressors?What are the transport assignments for your troops?
So... I use my dominions as screening units since they have the pregame move. they literally prevent a lot of drop alphas, and give me a turn to fire at stuff that tries to hit me first turn. Pushes back a lot of BS... The sisters are obsec since we are using the rules for nova, and the dominions I know are going to die. To be honest, i don't have assignments for the troops/doms most games. I'll adjust based on my opponents deployment, but the Death cults and priest are pretty much always in the rhino.
I don't own repressors... but the extra range on the immolator flamers is more my style anyways.
Also... won all three games by tabling my opponents (although last two conceded before i could kill every unit... but i had more turns to do so)
Round 1 was space wolves with fire raptor, flying transport, small flyer, claw terminators (in the flying transport), arjac, and 2 venerable shield/ax dreads.
We played the konor mission (not balanced at all...) and i was defender. He flew his transport at me, behind my tanks and shot up the penitent engines... used his other flyers to do the same as well as shooting transports... but didn't focus fire well enough to kill off tanks but he did get first blood off the penitents. My turn 1.... i faith move the seraphim then jump them in the regular move so they are 3 inches away from the fireraptor. I faith move celestine up in that area also... which also happened to be next to his small flyer (not sure on name). The seraphim and celestine are now in range of assault from the dreads next turn... (BAIT)... but they are 24 inches from my space marine libby on bike with nullzone. I surround his other flyer full of termis and arjac with my sisters with meltas and also a very wounded immolator... and then... blow it up with the meltas/flamers from the immos. the units inside can't deploy and die. The melta seraphim knock the fire raptor down to 2 hull points... and the hunter killer missiles get a hit on the small flyer knocking it down to 5 hull points. Celestine assaults the small flyer... killing it. then consolidates into the fire raptor which doesn't hit her in combat.
Opponents turn 2, he moves and assaults with dreads... moves the fire raptor in hover mode into melta range of all the sisters trying to blow it up so he can roll to get it back later... then fails to get any of his units back except the small flyer that goes into reserve.... celestine goes down to 2 wounds from the dreads hitting her...
my turn 2. ONE sisters melta unit faith moves closer to the dreads to shoot meltas then moves closer again so they are within 6 inches. celestine uses faith for free swings doing 2 more damage throught he 3++ then moves away with fall back in movement phase. libby boosts past the fire raptor, meltas position to shoot it down, and the DCA and priest disembark to assault the raptor if they fail to shoot it. Psyker phase the libby pops nullzone, then smites the closer dread. Shooting phase... seraphim blow up one dread (without invuls thanks to nullzone...) and then the last dread dies to meltas since it doesn't get an invul or armor. Opponent is left with a 2 wound raptor about to get shot... and concedes that he was tabled... game 1 done in 30 min.... I then realize i forgot to bring in my culexus and didn't even remember to deploy the dominions....
Game 2 was genestealers/swarmlord/broodlord/2 biovores/3 warriors/exocrine/termagaunts(lots)/ hiver guard with impalers/trygon prime. Mission was hammer/Anvil (rolled), and kill points. I'll write this up later... but here is where i used the dominions to zone out my opponent and get the drop on stuff. Game went 4 turns
Game 3 was vs Ynari... also only went 2 turns... will write up later.
I'll also try to make up diagrams of the tables/where I deployed stuff.
I am now impatiently waiting for these 2 reports, great for a tactics thread!
Has anyone looked at incorporating an IG Super-heavy in the list?
Hellhammer's seem appropriate given the amount of fire that they produce. I would be tempted to use something with a transport capacity if it was "Imperium" rather than "Astral Militarium" keyworded.
Anpu-adom wrote: Has anyone looked at incorporating an IG Super-heavy in the list?
Hellhammer's seem appropriate given the amount of fire that they produce. I would be tempted to use something with a transport capacity if it was "Imperium" rather than "Astral Militarium" keyworded.
I've been considering a shadowsword, but don't actually own one yet.
I actually play both SoB and IG superheavies, thought I don't mix them really because fluff.
I know Katherine uses a Shadowsword - but if you want any specific thoughts on the IG superheavies I'd be happy to help. There are definitely niches for them to occupy in a SoB list.
The reason I'm concidering a Hellhammer is the armorment. One of the weakness of our army is dealing with 2+ and multiwound models. It seems to me that something like the Hellhammer can really fill that niche.
Hellhammer was designed for close fire support and city fighting. So is the Repressor (we actually hijacked the design from the Arbites), and so the roll makes sense. The armament makes sense. Sisters wouldn't have very long range firepower like some of the Baneblade variants.
Anpu-adom wrote: The reason I'm concidering a Hellhammer is the armorment. One of the weakness of our army is dealing with 2+ and multiwound models. It seems to me that something like the Hellhammer can really fill that niche. Hellhammer was designed for close fire support and city fighting. So is the Repressor (we actually hijacked the design from the Arbites), and so the roll makes sense. The armament makes sense. Sisters wouldn't have very long range firepower like some of the Baneblade variants.
I mean if you want to stick to the fluff, Sisters wouldn't have any superheavies at all, probably. It's what's been keeping me from running one of mine with them.
That said, the Hellhammer is a good choice, though the Stormsword is both cheaper and comparable (its average number of shots is 4, while the Hellhammer's is 7, but much less reliable, and they have the same strength and AP while the average damage of the Stormsword's gun is higher (3.9), and it has the potential for much more damage, while only having a 1/36 chance of doing a single wound, though admittedly the Hellhammer cannot do 1 wound). The stormsword lacks the Demolisher Cannon but, as mentioned, is considerably cheaper. Like a lot. 80 points or something. That's enough to buy it a set of sponsons (with points to spare), making up for the demolisher anyways.
The stormsword is also even more of a urban combat siege vehicle in the fluff than the Hellhammer (I think it existed before the Hellhammer as well by an edition or so, as a battlefield conversion of a Shadowsword).
I mean, that sisters typically are fighting in city settings.
Yep, Stormsword is what I'm wanting. Thanks.
Once I finish up my main army (4 Repressors, 3 Rhinos, and 2 Exorcists) as well as painting my Serephim, I'll look at a Stormsword.
Anpu-adom wrote: I mean, that sisters typically are fighting in city settings.
Yep, Stormsword is what I'm wanting. Thanks.
Once I finish up my main army (4 Repressors, 3 Rhinos, and 2 Exorcists) as well as painting my Serephim, I'll look at a Stormsword.
My regiment has 6; they're fantastic vehicles! Can't upvote enough. People underestimate them because they only have 2d6/highest shots instead of 2d6 flat, but the average is about the same, the Stormsword is more reliable, and is WAAAAY cheaper than the other variants to boot, though the Stormhammer is also very good (my regiment has 3 of those) but it's neither short-ranged nor urban-combat, and so I didn't mention it!
Anpu-adom wrote: Has anyone looked at incorporating an IG Super-heavy in the list?
Hellhammer's seem appropriate given the amount of fire that they produce. I would be tempted to use something with a transport capacity if it was "Imperium" rather than "Astral Militarium" keyworded.
I've been considering a shadowsword, but don't actually own one yet.
Unit1126PLL wrote:I actually play both SoB and IG superheavies, thought I don't mix them really because fluff.
I know Katherine uses a Shadowsword - but if you want any specific thoughts on the IG superheavies I'd be happy to help. There are definitely niches for them to occupy in a SoB list.
I've got a Stormlord painted up in Sister Iconography.
It has the saint trinity of Flamer and Boltgun on the Turrets + Vulcan Mega-Bolter.
Transport capacity of 40 but 20 firing points **USED** to be interesting to pack with melta-dominions.
Now it's restricted to <Astra Militarum>... sad, but it might see the table one day as allies or just ignoring the transport side of things...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anpu-adom wrote: I mean, that sisters typically are fighting in city settings.
Yep, Stormsword is what I'm wanting. Thanks.
Once I finish up my main army (4 Repressors, 3 Rhinos, and 2 Exorcists) as well as painting my Serephim, I'll look at a Stormsword.
Don't forget you can easily magnetise the whole thing and keep all of the options if that's your thing.
If not, most of the guns are quite easily interchangeable on some variants without using magnets...
I'm bored so here we go.
Last night I played a warmup ITC game for a GT i'm in this weekend.
His list was very weird, but he said he's had decent luck with it so far in 8th... until last night. He ran:
Baneblade Hellstorm
Sicaran
3x HB Razorbacks
2x Lascanon Devastators
2x Wyverns
2x Callidus
1x Vindicare
1x Eversor
1x Culexus
and 2 IGHQs, A company commander and something.
Top of 1: He went first. He killed 1 Repressor and the Doms inside. Plinked a couple wounds on the other Repressors. Killed a few rets. His assassins were all up in my backline. But unfortunately for them. So was Celestine. 2 of the 4 assasins made their charges. 1 to my Canoness blob, 1 to Celestine.
Bottom of 1: The Seraphim did 20 wounds to the Baneblade. I was not expecting that output, but was very happy. A squad of Doms did 10 wounds to the Sicarin. All of my rets/canoness blob could do nothing because his eversor made it into assault with a squad of rets. Since he was the closest and in combat my Rets could't target the other assassins. They plinked a couple wounds off the wyverns. 2 of my Doms moved up the left half of the table toward the wyverns and killed both IGHQs. The ASF did 9ish wounds to a razorback. Celestine finished off the Calidus that assaulted her turn 1 with an AoF assault, Then charged the other Calidus. The Canoness fought the eversor with the help of 2 box of bones and 8 rets. This fight lasted until turn 5. I forgot I had Elysians in reserves. They ate popcorn and watched from high orbit. My Culexus came in and assaulted a razor back on the right.
Top of 2. He killed more Rets with the Eversor. The Culexus failed his charge again. The second Calidus died to Celestine. He did some random shooting. Blew up a Repressor near the Sicaran. That was about it.
Bottom of 2. Celestine had to ignore the Eversor fight to go hold an objective. The Baneblade died by the Seraphim. Both Wyverns died to my 2 Repressors on the left. The vindicare was unscathed and ignored by this point. The Sicarin died to my foot doms. The Razorback had fled from my Culexus. I assaulted some Devastators with him, he died in overwatch to 1 lascanon. The Avenger killed 3 Devastators from the other squad and a Razorback. The Eversor, Rets, and Canoness continued to slap fight. I forgot I have Elysians again.
Top of 3. The Culexus makes it into the Canoness dog pile. It's down to the Canoness and 2 box of bones. The Vindicare shot at Celestine and failed to wound. He killed a repressor on the left, and 2 Doms from inside with the Devastators that snuffed my Culexus.
Bottom of 3. Celestine makes it into the dog pile and kills the Eversor. My seraphim and doms on the right kill the 2nd and 3rd Razorbacks. The Avenger finishes off the one squad of Devastators. I remember I have Elysians! Because after turn 2 I picked them up and held them in my hand until my turn 3. They shoot at the Vindicare and do nothing because of the -2 to hit. At this point in time he has 4 devastators, 1 Vindicare untouched, and 1 Culexus untouched.
Top of 4: He does nothing. Celestine politely informs the Eversor that his services are no longer needed at this time.
Bottom of 4: I heal the Canoness from 1 wound to 4 wounds. My opponent weeps. Devastators have been cleansed. The Repressor on the left, 3 foot doms, and the Eylsians help the Vindicare exit the battlefield. Celestine and the Canoness drunkedly swing at the Culexus. This is his only remaining model.
Top of 5: His Culexus shouts angrily, but deals no wounds. The Canoness and Celestine decide not to hit the Culexus and I beleive they were playing paper/rock/scissors for who got to kill him the next turn.
Bottom of 5: Celestine and the Canoness use AoFs for pre-turn fights. They manage to get the Culexus down to 2. They then gracefully exit the fight, and Celestine then burns the Culexus for 5 wounds. Thanks Fly! He saves 4. The Avenger Strike Fighter pilot declares there has been far too much screwing around and ends the Culexus's life.
Tabled.
Things of note:
This was my 10th game of 8th edition. Sorry, I've had a busy summer.
I have used an ASF in the last 8 games. No one has dealt a wound to it. The -1 to hit is a really good deterrent to allow it be ignored, coupled with the stigma of flyers in 7th. They seem to do decent work.
Celestine is just... She's just the bee's knees. I firmly feel 2x Geminae is a waste of 50 points.
Elysians are great on paper but have been fairly ineffective for me. Counter argument to that is I may be an idiot.
Repressors are.. To quote Queen Elizabeth, "Amazeballs, Bro."
This is the first game that made me realize that Canonesseseses are pretty good. I need to give her higher strength though, S3 does not perform adequate mustard cutting. Also, feel free to throw a brick at me, but my first 8 games in 8th I had no idea that a Canoness had a 4++. Ha...
I have seen the light for Seraphims with Inferno pistols. May the Emperor protect them.
So is the easy bake oven strat dead because of the new disembark rules? (4 doms with melts inside immo) vanguard movement is nice but having to disembark before the Immolator moves feels backwards to me, I guess use a of for an extra move?
Oberron wrote: So is the easy bake oven strat dead because of the new disembark rules? (4 doms with melts inside immo) vanguard movement is nice but having to disembark before the Immolator moves feels backwards to me, I guess use a of for an extra move?
Easy bake hasn't been good for a loooong time. The last time I remember using it was 3rd edition and 5th with the old divine guidance (rending).
Having gone to Caledonian Revolution in July and coming 37th of 100, as the only Sisters player, I’m vowing to do better at my next GT. I’m heading to heat one at Warhammer world, a 120 person tournament where the top 40 get invited to the finals next year against the top 40 from heats two and three. The missions are eternal war only, 2000 points with FW allowed and no faction specific prizes like Cally had (it’s a GW event so no hope of better missions like the ETC ones).
Here’s what I’m thinking of running:
I’m not 100% sold on the manticore having played a few games with it (against Stormraven spam with conscripts, Grey Knights, Ynnari Howling Banshees in Wave Serpents with a Warlock in each, Orks, Gulliman), and might swap it out for something else. I’ve got an ASF from 7th that I haven’t played around with since 8th dropped but people have mentioned it here that it’s been effective.
What else could I play around with in the list? Especially since it's completely uncomped there's going to be a bunch of lists that are hard as nails.
Bionid wrote: Having gone to Caledonian Revolution in July and coming 37th of 100, as the only Sisters player, I’m vowing to do better at my next GT. I’m heading to heat one at Warhammer world, a 120 person tournament where the top 40 get invited to the finals next year against the top 40 from heats two and three. The missions are eternal war only, 2000 points with FW allowed and no faction specific prizes like Cally had (it’s a GW event so no hope of better missions like the ETC ones).
Here’s what I’m thinking of running:
I’m not 100% sold on the manticore having played a few games with it (against Stormraven spam with conscripts, Grey Knights, Ynnari Howling Banshees in Wave Serpents with a Warlock in each, Orks, Gulliman), and might swap it out for something else. I’ve got an ASF from 7th that I haven’t played around with since 8th dropped but people have mentioned it here that it’s been effective.
What else could I play around with in the list? Especially since it's completely uncomped there's going to be a bunch of lists that are hard as nails.
I know it's too late for much feedback, but here's the list I'll run this weekend. My group is trying to match players with codices against each other, so I'll probably face Orks, Eldar, Tau, Necrons, or Nids as the upgraded armies square off. One player's three armies are CSM, Death Guard, and AdMech, lucky bugger... I probably won't face him for months.
Anyway, it's an all-comers list with some new elements based on some models I picked up from another player at a nice discount (namely more Storm Bolters, a couple of PP Superiors, and a couple extra HBs but not enough for a second unit of Rets just yet). I'm in the process of going away from flamers and more toward HBs and Storm Bolters, but obviously GW doesn't want my money right now, so I'm scrounging and biding my time.
Spoiler:
1999 point Brigade, 12 CP
Canoness, Inferno Pistol, Power Sword
Canoness, Bolt Pistol, Chain Sword
Celestine w/ 2x Geminae
Tempestor Prime w/ Rod
Tempestor Prime w/ Rod
The Doms do their Vanguard thing in the Immos to claim optimal range for their respective loadouts. The Rhino follows with the Heavy Flamer Rets, CC-loaded Canoness, and a couple of Imagifiers to plug themselves in where the Doms are holding up well or wherever they'll do the most good, using an AoF to get there quickly. The naked Canoness castles up with the Exo, Heavy Bolter Rets, and an Imagifier. The BSS screen against DSers and camp objectives. Scions drop on flanks to look for 2-wound targets, grab objectives, and heckle the opponent's backfield. Celestine & Friends do what they do best. I'll make CPs rain on AoFs, Exo shots, melta damage, and Celestine.
I'll report back after a game or maybe two tomorrow. The Emperor Protects!
So playing with lists again, trying to stay with pure Sisters and as competitive as possible for a small tourney next weekend.
<Outrider Detachment> 4 CP, 2000 pts
Celestine - Warlord +1A
5 Dominions, 1x meltagun, 4x Stormbolters, Immolator w Flamer and Stormbolter
5 Dominions, 1x meltagun, 4x Stormbolters, Immolator w Flamer and Stormbolter
5 Dominions, 1x meltagun, 4x Stormbolters, Immolator w Flamer and Stormbolter
5 Dominions, 1x meltagun, 4x Stormbolters, Immolator w Flamer and Stormbolter
5 Dominions, 1x meltagun, 4x Stormbolters, Immolator w Flamer and Stormbolter
5 BSS, 3x Stormbolters, Immolator w Flamer and Stormbolter
5 BSS, 3x Stormbolters, Immolator w Flamer and Stormbolter
5 BSS, 3x Stormbolters, Immolator w Flamer and Stormbolter
10 Seraphims, 2 with dual Inferno Pistols
Exorcist, Stormbolter
Exorcist, Stormbolter
That's 8 Immolators with Flamers and 2 Exorcists, 50 Doms/BSS/Seraphims
Perhaps the Exorcists aren't the most competitive but the 8 Immolators charging up a flank will give my opponent other tanks to concentrate on.
Plenty of anti horde and mobility, the Seraphims and Exorcists will be the tank and TEQ Hunters.
Any thoughts on the list?
Never have been a fan of Repressors, I've always preferred Immolators.
The single meltagun in the Dom squads can always split fire, and it makes the opponent have to cut through 4 SBs before getting to the melta. I don't plan on using AoFs except on the Seraphim squad.
I thought about the second Canoness, but to get just one more CP? I used those points toward the 2nd Exorcist.
The Exorcists and the 3 BSS squads in Immos stay back or toward midfield while the 5 Dom squads / Seraphims / Celestine move on a flank. I think this large group moving forward on a flank will be a lot of punch that the opponent will have to deal with.
Bionid wrote: Having gone to Caledonian Revolution in July and coming 37th of 100, as the only Sisters player, I’m vowing to do better at my next GT. I’m heading to heat one at Warhammer world, a 120 person tournament where the top 40 get invited to the finals next year against the top 40 from heats two and three. The missions are eternal war only, 2000 points with FW allowed and no faction specific prizes like Cally had (it’s a GW event so no hope of better missions like the ETC ones).
Here’s what I’m thinking of running:
I’m not 100% sold on the manticore having played a few games with it (against Stormraven spam with conscripts, Grey Knights, Ynnari Howling Banshees in Wave Serpents with a Warlock in each, Orks, Gulliman), and might swap it out for something else. I’ve got an ASF from 7th that I haven’t played around with since 8th dropped but people have mentioned it here that it’s been effective.
What else could I play around with in the list? Especially since it's completely uncomped there's going to be a bunch of lists that are hard as nails.
Uh, that kind of list looks familiar Since you have 2 tempestor already, you could swap the manticore for 2 Scion troops with 2 plasmagun and plasma pistol. That way you can make full use of the 4 orders you have instead of wasting 2. Heck you could also go for 3 scion troops and get a battalion out of it.
Plus obsec scions is always nice if your event uses the GW previews.
It's a strong list. Just pray you won't face a Magnus now that he can go 3++ reroll ones.
Uh, that kind of list looks familiar Since you have 2 tempestor already, you could swap the manticore for 2 Scion troops with 2 plasmagun and plasma pistol. That way you can make full use of the 4 orders you have instead of wasting 2. Heck you could also go for 3 scion troops and get a battalion out of it.
Plus obsec scions is always nice if your event uses the GW previews.
It's a strong list. Just pray you won't face a Magnus now that he can go 3++ reroll ones.
Aye, stole your Arco-flagellants idea! Went to a highlander and used them after I saw your list and they did tonnes of work to the chaff blobs I was struggling with before. Great shout It's a GW official event so if you mean the Obsec for all troops that's in chapter approved it won't be in use until that's released officially
My worry with more scions is increasing my drops. I *could* get them inside the tauroxes and reduce my drops if it's necessary, but adding 3 more squads I'd only really have the option to go first against Tau commanders lists.
Could also drop the combi-meltas, Manticore, and get another Repressor full of meltaguns.
How did you deal with Smite-Spam lists? There's no restriction on Repeated detachments like I'm used to from ETC, so there's a big possibility of the 10 inquisitors in razorbacks list, 9+ weirdboyz, etc.
MacPhail wrote: I know it's too late for much feedback, but here's the list I'll run this weekend. My group is trying to match players with codices against each other, so I'll probably face Orks, Eldar, Tau, Necrons, or Nids as the upgraded armies square off. One player's three armies are CSM, Death Guard, and AdMech, lucky bugger... I probably won't face him for months.
Anyway, it's an all-comers list with some new elements based on some models I picked up from another player at a nice discount (namely more Storm Bolters, a couple of PP Superiors, and a couple extra HBs but not enough for a second unit of Rets just yet). I'm in the process of going away from flamers and more toward HBs and Storm Bolters, but obviously GW doesn't want my money right now, so I'm scrounging and biding my time.
Spoiler:
1999 point Brigade, 12 CP
Canoness, Inferno Pistol, Power Sword
Canoness, Bolt Pistol, Chain Sword
Celestine w/ 2x Geminae
Tempestor Prime w/ Rod
Tempestor Prime w/ Rod
The Doms do their Vanguard thing in the Immos to claim optimal range for their respective loadouts. The Rhino follows with the Heavy Flamer Rets, CC-loaded Canoness, and a couple of Imagifiers to plug themselves in where the Doms are holding up well or wherever they'll do the most good, using an AoF to get there quickly. The naked Canoness castles up with the Exo, Heavy Bolter Rets, and an Imagifier. The BSS screen against DSers and camp objectives. Scions drop on flanks to look for 2-wound targets, grab objectives, and heckle the opponent's backfield. Celestine & Friends do what they do best. I'll make CPs rain on AoFs, Exo shots, melta damage, and Celestine.
I'll report back after a game or maybe two tomorrow. The Emperor Protects!
Okay, notched a win against Tau. I botched a few deployment and early game moves, but managed to outlast my opponent. Takeaways: Storm Bolter Dominons punch way above their weight... seriously, GW, get them back in stock and I'll buy ten. Also, do not mess around with a Stormsurge with EWO... just drop on the other side of the board and forget about it. In general, Mech Sisters get the job done, even without Repressors. Finally, as we know, always play to the mission. Final: 16-6; we called it after the top of turn 7 when it was clear all I would do with my final turn was rack up more VPs.
We played the mission with 3 TacOs each turn on a dense urban ruin board. I went second, opted for an overloaded flank opposite the Canoness castle. My opponent had 2x Kroot, 3x Pathfinders, Breacher Warriors w/ Devilfish, Longstrike, Hammerhead, Riptide, Stormsurge, Ethereal, 2x Commanders, Darkstrider... I think that was it.
The Melta Doms got the Devilfish, Hammerhead, and Longstrike over 5 turns with some help from the Exorcist. Celestine eventually died for good, but she distracted the Stormsurge and Riptide for most of the game, and also took out all of the Kroot. My deployment gambit meant that Celestine had to take on some big suits by herself because my Doms had cleared their table half but were too slow to redeploy. Tau Overwatch shenanigans are still pretty rough... I threw Celestine into some scenarios I regretted. Plasma Scions were not staggeringly good this game... my opponent boxed me out of his backfield and EWO on the Stormsurge snuffed half of them on arrival. They still mopped up Pathfinders and Drones and got a DSing Commander late in the game. The table in Turn 7 was the Stormsurge and a Commander vs. 2 Canonesses, 1 Imagifier, and the Storm Bolter Doms, plus the Exorcist and 2 Immolators. Play of the Game: 4 leftover Dominions from 2 different units dive into a shredded Immolator and limp into the opponents deployment zone for d3 VP.
I still do not like the idea of spamming like some of lists detail.
Doms are really flexable and I am seeing everyone go all melta or flamers.
Load out of 50/50 does well for me and do not underestimate putting a plasma pistol on the superior. Also I am not seeing the value of a repressor if you lose out on a scout move twin linked immolator, the squad is small anyway and the immolator just wrecks things. (I had one square off against two leman russes and win yesterday.)
Anyway here is my list that went 2 major wins - 1 minor loss. (Loss was of course my crap tastic clock management.)
I still do not like the idea of spamming like some of lists detail.
Doms are really flexable and I am seeing everyone go all melta or flamers.
Load out of 50/50 does well for me and do not underestimate putting a plasma pistol on the superior. Also I am not seeing the value of a repressor if you lose out on a scout move twin linked immolator, the squad is small anyway and the immolator just wrecks things. (I had one square off against two leman russes and win yesterday.)
Spam is a hollow word with an Army that has so few unit choices. Sisters are overloaded with Elite units and very few of them are worth taking, those that are aren't worth taking more than just a few. At 2k points I field all of our HQ's, all of our troop choices and fast attack choices, at least 2/3 of our heavy support choices and keep my opponents guessing a bit by switching up what elite choices I take but even then its usually at least 2 or 3 different ones because they have their uses and I enjoy trying to line up tactics that make them useful.
Melta Doms have some uses, Flamer Doms never make it into my lists, Stormbolter Doms punch way above their points and are hard not to just keep spamming till you run out of points
I'd rather run my Dom Superior with a Stormbolter and chainsword. Better in the long run than a plas pistol.
Repressors are great for Dominions, why would you lose out on scout? Are you mixing unit types in the Repressor? The ability to stay inside a T7 12W vehicle while you ride around buzzsawing units to death is delicious. They are even great for Retributors you want to keep from getting gunned down by small arms. Sure the girls inside can't make use of AoF but unless you are spamming Imagifers to get extra you have better uses for the couple you get anyways. For me the Immolator pales when compared to the Exorcist for long range shooting because it can hit things that can't assault and kill it. The Immolator pales when compared to the Repressor for a transport because the girls can shoot from inside of it.
dracpanzer wrote: For me the Immolator pales when compared to the Exorcist for long range shooting because it can hit things that can't assault and kill it. The Immolator pales when compared to the Repressor for a transport because the girls can shoot from inside of it.
She who bails, fails.
So glad that my maxim still holds water.
Also, I'd disagree with Exorcist vs Immo. Immo is good at a lot of different targets (including flamers) whereas the Exorcist is just expensive and lackluster.
dracpanzer wrote: For me the Immolator pales when compared to the Exorcist for long range shooting because it can hit things that can't assault and kill it. The Immolator pales when compared to the Repressor for a transport because the girls can shoot from inside of it.
She who bails, fails.
So glad that my maxim still holds water.
Also, I'd disagree with Exorcist vs Immo. Immo is good at a lot of different targets (including flamers) whereas the Exorcist is just expensive and lackluster.
Your right about exo's, but I find Immo's to fragile to use as AT, they may be cheaper but to use it you are too exposed to make it worth it, immo is too close and her cargo has to get out to have any effect. While the Repressor can get you close, while protecting her cargo who can still shoot. If you are hoping your tanks can put down some hurt (I prefer for my cargo to do so) I prefer the Exo since it can at least hide out of the way and stay in the fight. Apart from tinkering with units and lists I don't take anything but Repressors any longer. Mind you I generally run lists of 1500 points competitive and 500 points of lets see what this does. Having said that, my Doms in Repressors are far more effective than an Immolator or Exorcist will ever be.
I heard you say it first, but its a rule my Sisters have won by since my first tourney in 3ed.
I think the thing we are debating is how do you get the most out of your armies.
IMO, and it's in my play style, is that sisters are extremely fast for a mech power armor style army. Opponents frequently comment on how they thought a 2 foot or less army was going to be out ranged and this army constantly shows that it doesn't matter.
That being said, again in my opinion, just replacing and spamming units or weapons will get you into trouble eventually.
Imos are fantastic anti-vehicle/monster units, you hit well on the move due to twin linked and it does a massive amount of damage. Every sister has a pistol, most shooting armies are terrible at combat.
My doms don't sit around in tanks doing nothing, they go upfield to throw down not sit back and shoot. If you can tie up your opponents entire army in CC on turn 1/2 that negates their army just as well as shooting at it. And with that 3+ save and small unit size you can turn around and unload into that shooty unit with pistols and continue to bash their faces in.
If you force your opponent to have to fall back with 50+% of their army they get really nervous really fast.
The repressor imo is good at getting even tougher/punchier units into combat, again because sisters can do more than most in all phases of the game not just shooting. I'm going to start using this to get celestians upfield with massed bolter fire (storm bolters) and a priest/cannoness combo. Add on top of that a vehicle that can charge weak units well and two heavy flamers you have a pretty good 1/2 punch.
Not utilizing the repressors strengths, toughness, ability to ram things, high transport capability to just haul doms around seems silly to me but that's me :-)
Also I feel really bad using the Saint, I'm moving forward to just use her in APOC games, it's silly in anything else taking her lol.
Yeah, unfortunately I'd be tempted to take the saint just to give myself a chance at winning, even though I hate taking named characters. It's part of why my Sisters are on the shelf this edition...
I just really hope we get an update worth having. I'll spend money on sisters if we do, gladly, even if the models don't necessarily mix.
At this point, armies are based on their unique characters.
I do think it's possible to run Sisters without Celestine. 250 points does buy another squad of meltaguns in a transport. The thing is that Celestine can pull her own weight at 200-250 points, whereas Canoness mostly sit around and take up space and points.
It's not fluffy at all, actually. Named characters aren't gonna be there for every single random skirmish. But that's a bit of an off topic gripe, so I'll shush up.
I don't understand that line of thinking. I don't lose any love for chess because most powerful piece wouldn't actually be on the battlefield. Unlike Rowboat, Celestine might actually be at little skirmishes. She jumps in and out of the warp to go where she's most needed. At the end of the day, she's our primarch and a beat stick. She's an auto-include.
Melissia wrote: It's not fluffy at all, actually. Named characters aren't gonna be there for every single random skirmish. But that's a bit of an off topic gripe, so I'll shush up.
deviantduck wrote: I don't understand that line of thinking. I don't lose any love for chess because most powerful piece wouldn't actually be on the battlefield. Unlike Rowboat, Celestine might actually be at little skirmishes. She jumps in and out of the warp to go where she's most needed. At the end of the day, she's our primarch and a beat stick. She's an auto-include.
Not fluff for fighting, but as in they like the fluff of the character and playing that character to them is fun/cool.
Its not about playing the fluff, its a game, players like certain characters, its fun to play them, they are unique and special. Its fun to have something special.
I just rename the named characters to be the leader of my army. For me, the named character is just an archetype. St Seraphine leads my army, not Celestine.
That's what I did; I think it's old advice from GW in 3rd Edition (something like "just use the special character to represent your own hero in your army" or whatever).
The problem has been exacerbated with characters like Pask having the <Cadian> keyword instead of the <Regiment> keyword, but Celestine has no <Order> so she's actually fine to do it with.
Additionally, it allows for cool fluff effects, like I always run a 9-girl sister squad along with my other 10 girl squads since my Living Saint was just a random battle-sister who transcended mid-battle (before the game in this case).
Unit1126PLL wrote: Additionally, it allows for cool fluff effects, like I always run a 9-girl sister squad along with my other 10 girl squads since my Living Saint was just a random battle-sister who transcended mid-battle (before the game in this case).
So been thinking of this as a tactic but unsure of how sound it is
2 Dom squads with melts inside Immolator (or repressor)
St. Celestine
Imagnifier
Set up the two immo across from heavy unit, vanguard one up 12 inches, vanguard the other 6 inches so still in range of St c, use first a of for movement on Immolator to move+ advance another 12, use st c aof on the 6 inch Immolator for movement+ advance, imagnifier hopefully for a movement on st c.
During movement phase disembark the doms foward and move immo forward again, move st c foward.
Shoot with Dom that's further back at target, then with the closer doms them with immos. If anything from unit is left charge with immo and St c to tie up units (charge at different units with immo if there are some close enough to be a problem)
StC is Michelle Mathenius wearing the Armor of St. Musial.
My Canoness was Matilda Adams until they traded him to the braves. Now she just makes me sad. Also I just painted my Culexus to match the 1982 Cardinals jerseys. His name is Ozzius. 40k needs more baseball in the fluff.
Additionally, it allows for cool fluff effects, like I always run a 9-girl sister squad along with my other 10 girl squads since my Living Saint was just a random battle-sister who transcended mid-battle (before the game in this case).
So the GT over the weekend had a much larger turnout and ended up being a major. However, I failed us, folks. I only placed 8th of 58. 2nd highest Imperial, though (7th place was my 3rd round opponent). Renegades and Tzeentch won the day. There was a necron player there who's entire army was 1 super heavy pylon, and all scarabs. it was pretty gross.
1: Draw - 9 - 9 Emperors Will (smurfs and rowboat with banner)
2: Win - 19 - 1 Relic (dark angels with knight and 2 sicarans and an ancient dreadnaut.)
3: Loss - 10 - 9 Purge (2 plasma obliterators, 2 vultures, 100 conscripts)
4: Win - 11 - 9 Scouring (Tank IG with conscripts (My little brother, actually))
5: Win - 19 - 2 Big Guns (Black Templar, storm raven, assault cents, assassins)
Game 1 - I seized and went first. Killed 3x devastators, 3x scouts, 1x bike squad. He had a stormraven, rowboat, techmarine, ancient w/banner, and laspred. 4 turns later, he still had RG, the pred, and the techmarine. I forgot to ressurect my Geminae which ended up costing me the win when he killed celestine for slay the warlord by 1 wound.
Game 2 - He went first and killed 1 repressor and 2 doms. Celestine killed is scouts and took the relic and ran like hell to my corner behind ruins for the rest of the game. Meltas killed the knight bottom of 1. I essentially kept him tied up and immobile. He had no chance of catching Celestine.
Game 3 - I went first, and wiped out 34 of 100 conscripts, and 1 plasma obliterator. The rest of the game was a weird clusterfeth all in one corner. I got the other plasma oblit down to 1 wound. never killed it. I lost because I forgot about the tertiaries. Celestine killed Harker and a commisar isntead of Strakken, who was the lone model for king of the hill. 2 point swing right there. I'm and idiot. We also only played 3 turns. I also forgot to ressurect Geminae.
Game 4 - I went first and bumrushed him. He didn't have enough conscripts and they all died top 1. His tanks were clustered in a corner and I tied them up the rest of the game. We played 4 turns. He would have been tabled turn 5, but we ran out of time.
Game 5 - I went first. I killed a lot top of 1. 2 razorbacks and squads inside. Speeder, 2 scouts, 1 dreadnaut. He was left with a Stormraven with chaplain and assault cents, half a chapter master on bike, 1 dreadnaut, and 3 assassins. He pretty much conceded top of 1. Bottom of 1 he rolled snaked eyes 3 times in a row, Those dice went across the room never to be seen again. We ended after 5. He had 1 chaplain left with 1 wound.
Lessons learned:
Remember to ressurect your Geminae.
Ignore Plasma obliterators and kill everything else.
Finish off squads and remember tertiary objectives.
Repressors are still amazing.
My elysians didn't really do anything. They get 1 decent volley and then die.
The avenger strike fighter continued to be ignored, but it didn't really have much punch on the weekend.
Amishprn86 wrote: Can you give a list that you took? Also that necron player is just trying to have a playable army, they are doing terrible at tournaments.
deviantduck wrote: So the GT over the weekend had a much larger turnout and ended up being a major. However, I failed us, folks. I only placed 8th of 58. 2nd highest Imperial, though (7th place was my 3rd round opponent). Renegades and Tzeentch won the day. There was a necron player there who's entire army was 1 super heavy pylon, and all scarabs. it was pretty gross.
1: Draw - 9 - 9 Emperors Will (smurfs and rowboat with banner)
2: Win - 19 - 1 Relic (dark angels with knight and 2 sicarans and an ancient dreadnaut.)
3: Loss - 10 - 9 Purge (2 plasma obliterators, 2 vultures, 100 conscripts)
4: Win - 11 - 9 Scouring (Tank IG with conscripts (My little brother, actually))
5: Win - 19 - 2 Big Guns (Black Templar, storm raven, assault cents, assassins)
Game 1 - I seized and went first. Killed 3x devastators, 3x scouts, 1x bike squad. He had a stormraven, rowboat, techmarine, ancient w/banner, and laspred. 4 turns later, he still had RG, the pred, and the techmarine. I forgot to ressurect my Geminae which ended up costing me the win when he killed celestine for slay the warlord by 1 wound.
Game 2 - He went first and killed 1 repressor and 2 doms. Celestine killed is scouts and took the relic and ran like hell to my corner behind ruins for the rest of the game. Meltas killed the knight bottom of 1. I essentially kept him tied up and immobile. He had no chance of catching Celestine.
Game 3 - I went first, and wiped out 34 of 100 conscripts, and 1 plasma obliterator. The rest of the game was a weird clusterfeth all in one corner. I got the other plasma oblit down to 1 wound. never killed it. I lost because I forgot about the tertiaries. Celestine killed Harker and a commisar isntead of Strakken, who was the lone model for king of the hill. 2 point swing right there. I'm and idiot. We also only played 3 turns. I also forgot to ressurect Geminae.
Game 4 - I went first and bumrushed him. He didn't have enough conscripts and they all died top 1. His tanks were clustered in a corner and I tied them up the rest of the game. We played 4 turns. He would have been tabled turn 5, but we ran out of time.
Game 5 - I went first. I killed a lot top of 1. 2 razorbacks and squads inside. Speeder, 2 scouts, 1 dreadnaut. He was left with a Stormraven with chaplain and assault cents, half a chapter master on bike, 1 dreadnaut, and 3 assassins. He pretty much conceded top of 1. Bottom of 1 he rolled snaked eyes 3 times in a row, Those dice went across the room never to be seen again. We ended after 5. He had 1 chaplain left with 1 wound.
Lessons learned:
Remember to ressurect your Geminae.
Ignore Plasma obliterators and kill everything else.
Finish off squads and remember tertiary objectives.
Repressors are still amazing.
My elysians didn't really do anything. They get 1 decent volley and then die.
The avenger strike fighter continued to be ignored, but it didn't really have much punch on the weekend.
Darn good effort mate! Whod have ever though that sisters would place top 10 in a tourney ever?
Shame on forgetting your geminae so frequently. Shame. Shame. Shame.
Ive had similar experience with the Avenger. Just doesnt do anything in game. Hitting on 4s just hurts. Consideri g dropping it in my lists for something else.
Take note GW, this is how you do plastic sisters. Give us a box of these then we have seraphim. Fething do it already. *grumbles about geedubs doing sweet blow all for sisters 20 year anniversary*
Whats the best way to allocate wounds to Celestines unit assuming she has two Gemini with her? I've been allocating initial wounds to a Gemini then leaving one alive for putting Celestines last wound onto. Would I be better allocating to both Gemini then Celestine?
I dunno why I do it this way? Because it's demorallising to poir an loads of shots into Celestine only to have her go "Haha nope" and kill the Gemini instead perhaps.
Once Celestine (or any model in a unit) suffers a single wound, you have to continue putting wounds on her until she's either healed to her full amount, or she's slain. Always put the wounds onto the Geminae, that's their job.
The only time you'd want to put wounds on to Celestine over the Geminae would be a situation where she's at low wounds already and having her resurrect with the Geminae already in position would be favourable to losing your positioning and having to redeploy 9" away, such as when making an important charge.
It is worth noting that you can cause 40k to BSOD with celestine's unit.
Just have Celestine with wounds alive, healing tears back one of the gemini, then use an act of faith to bring back the other gemini with one wound.
The unit now has 2 wounded models. When the enemy inflicts wounds, where do they go? If there is a wounded model, it must be allocated to them, but there are two wounded models. *game breaks*
After Celestine has resurrected once, you always want to put the wounds into her when there is one G left and leave the Geminae alive. Then you can Healing Tears back Celestine.
Unit1126PLL wrote: It is worth noting that you can cause 40k to BSOD with celestine's unit.
Just have Celestine with wounds alive, healing tears back one of the gemini, then use an act of faith to bring back the other gemini with one wound.
The unit now has 2 wounded models. When the enemy inflicts wounds, where do they go? If there is a wounded model, it must be allocated to them, but there are two wounded models. *game breaks*
You have to heal Celestine for D3 wounds before you can add back her Geminae, IIRC.
Unit1126PLL wrote: It is worth noting that you can cause 40k to BSOD with celestine's unit.
Just have Celestine with wounds alive, healing tears back one of the gemini, then use an act of faith to bring back the other gemini with one wound.
The unit now has 2 wounded models. When the enemy inflicts wounds, where do they go? If there is a wounded model, it must be allocated to them, but there are two wounded models. *game breaks*
You have to heal Celestine for D3 wounds before you can add back her Geminae, IIRC.
That's only for Hospitaller.
Spirit of the Martyr: One model in the unit recovers D3 lost wounds, or you can return a single slain model to the unit with 1 wound remaining.
Healer: At the end of your Movement phase a Hospitaller can attempt to heal or revive a single model. Select a friendly ADEPTA SORORITAS INFANTRY unit within 3" of the Hospitaller and roll a D6. On a roll of 4+, one model in the unit recovers D3 lost wounds; if the chosen unit contains no wounded models but one or more of its models have been slain during the battle, then a single slain model is returned to the unit with 1 wound remaining. A unit can only be the target of the Healer ability once in each turn.
I do think it's possible to run Sisters without Celestine. 250 points does buy another squad of meltaguns in a transport. The thing is that Celestine can pull her own weight at 200-250 points, whereas Canoness mostly sit around and take up space and points.
That does seem to be the case, I have not seen a Sisters army fielded without Celestine yet.
I do think it's possible to run Sisters without Celestine. 250 points does buy another squad of meltaguns in a transport. The thing is that Celestine can pull her own weight at 200-250 points, whereas Canoness mostly sit around and take up space and points.
That does seem to be the case, I have not seen a Sisters army fielded with Celestine yet.
CB
Do you mean 'without'? Because I've haven't seen one recently without her.
I do think it's possible to run Sisters without Celestine. 250 points does buy another squad of meltaguns in a transport. The thing is that Celestine can pull her own weight at 200-250 points, whereas Canoness mostly sit around and take up space and points.
That does seem to be the case, I have not seen a Sisters army fielded without Celestine yet.
CB
You can, but why would you?
You still need to put something in your HQ slot, so you have to take a Canoness, so you're really only getting 200 of her 250 point cost to spend on something else.
Celestine offers AoF support to foot Sisters, and keeps up with mech Sisters.
If Canonesses could be fast enough to stay with Vanguarding Dominions, or had the ability to distribute Acts of Faith, I could see lists passing over Celestine in favor of a Canoness and another, more specialized unit, but as long as Canonesses are basically a brick, there's no good reason not to bring Celestine. You can forgo her and probably have a good enough list, but you really should bring her. In addition, unlike other characters for other armies, she's not locked to an Order so you don't have to be Order of Our Martyered Lady to benefit from her buffs while you do have to be Catachan to bring Harker or Dark Angels to bring Azarel.
Yeah why wouldn't you bring celestine? People bring her in non-sister armies. No reason for us to not bring BigC.
But so far we are still in better place than ad mech is with Cawl. Cannones is cheap, so you can easily justify her, and sprinkle one or two.
Taking TPD over Cawl anywhere above 1000pts is shooting yourself in the knee.
BEFORE answering my post, please re-read the concerned rules in the Index. Note also that I play rules as they are written.
Are we sure that resurrected Gemina via healing tears JOIN Celestine as a single unit. It just says to ''set up'' a slain Gemina '' within 2'' '' of Celestine. What do you think? RAW they are now separate units. (Celestine's rule doesn't say that the Gemina ''returns to the unit'' as in the case of an Act of faith.)
I think it's better! You can send them fay away as a distraction that will kill stuff and die, and then they come back next to Celestine! Amazing!
RenegadeKorps wrote: BEFORE answering my post, please re-read the concerned rules in the Index.
Note also that I play rules as they are written.
Are we sure that resurrected Gemina via healing tears JOIN Celestine as a single unit. It just says to ''set up'' a slain Gemina '' within 2'' '' of Celestine. What do you think?
RAW they are now separate units.
(Celestine's rule doesn't say that the Gemina ''returns to the unit'' as in the case of an Act of faith.)
I think it's better! You can send them fay away as a distraction that will kill stuff and die, and then they come back next to Celestine! Amazing!
The original unit is Celestine plus 0-2 Gemini. You don't have permission by RAW to break up that unit. The index pretty clearly lays out that Gemini are always returned to the original unit of Celestine plus X Gemini. Otherwise you could resurrect Gemini after not purchasing any.
Even the rules for bringing Gemini back prevent you from getting models you didn't pay for. The rule says return a slain model back within 2. If you never brought the model, she was never there to be killed.
RenegadeKorps wrote: BEFORE answering my post, please re-read the concerned rules in the Index.
Note also that I play rules as they are written.
Are we sure that resurrected Gemina via healing tears JOIN Celestine as a single unit. It just says to ''set up'' a slain Gemina '' within 2'' '' of Celestine. What do you think?
RAW they are now separate units.
(Celestine's rule doesn't say that the Gemina ''returns to the unit'' as in the case of an Act of faith.)
I think it's better! You can send them fay away as a distraction that will kill stuff and die, and then they come back next to Celestine! Amazing!
They don't 'join' Celestine's unit, they ARE Celestine's unit. They never seperate and 'by RAW' is not what you said it is. By RAW you follow inertia, nothing made them NOT part of hee unit so they still are part of her unit.
As an aside, please don't get distracted trying clever loopy rules interpretations like this. If it's ambiguous enough to be a real issue, it'll get patched, if it isn't you'll just be instigating an argument.
pretre wrote: I just rename the named characters to be the leader of my army. For me, the named character is just an archetype. St Seraphine leads my army, not Celestine.
I basically do the same, but my annoying analytical side is questioning the fluff implications.
I get the impression that a Living Saint is as different from any other Living Saint as they are from anything else. Solar Mecharius is quite different from Saint Celestine, I don't even know if he was raised from the dead, I haven't read Gaunt but what little I can find about Saint Sabbat the mechanism of her rebirth seems very different from Celestine (and I can't find anything about whether she flew around in the manner Celestine does.)
Then of course you have Saint Anais who is Celestine with the serial numbers filed off. Or the Geminae, who are by definition also living saints but are more like apparition or thralls to Celestine...
Quick question: I run a Astra Militarum army with Sisters allies and am considering swapping out my Exorcist for 3 lascannon Scout Sentinels which is the same points and arguably better firepower, though much less durable. The scout move that Denies deep strike/ enemy scout moves shenanigans is the main attraction though. Thoughts?
The thought process was I could have this long range tank ( Exorcist) in the back lines with a random damage output with its d6 shots, or 3 Sentinels out front to draw fire due to their loadout, Lascannons. Which is a better investment of points atm is my question. I just think the exorcist is way too expensive for d6 shots. If I keep the Sentinels cheap, they may just get ignored which sort of defeats the purpose. Hopefully in the future ( SOON ) the Imperial Agents/Ecclisiarchy/ Adeptus Sororitas codex gives Exorcists something more then just d6 shots and a tough chassis.
Twoshoes23 wrote: The thought process was I could have this long range tank ( Exorcist) in the back lines with a random damage output with its d6 shots, or 3 Sentinels out front to draw fire due to their loadout, Lascannons. Which is a better investment of points atm is my question. I just think the exorcist is way too expensive for d6 shots. If I keep the Sentinels cheap, they may just get ignored which sort of defeats the purpose. Hopefully in the future ( SOON ) the Imperial Agents/Ecclisiarchy/ Adeptus Sororitas codex gives Exorcists something more then just d6 shots and a tough chassis.
I can say that you'd rather have something other than the Exorcist, but I can't say for Sentinels. I've never used them and never liked them.
I can say that IG artillery does everything the Exorcist does but better.
I'm looking at running an AS detachment alongside my AM army at an ITC tournament predominantly so I can take Celestine. (Imperium isn't allowed at ITC as a faction) I already have a Priest (Adeptus Ministorum count as Adeptus Sororitas in terms of ITC factions) so a vanguard would only require an extra two elites. What other AS units would you recommend that take advantage of Celestines buffs (extra act of faith etc) that will create a complete detachment with an eye on low points cost.
Also is it worth taking Gemina with Celestine. Does taking them not turn Celestine into a unit that can be targeted if in LOS rather than an independent character?
konst80hummel wrote: Elites are indeed lackluster. If you lack in mellee howq about a mitress of repentance wit a unit of Repentia. It clocks at 140 for 6 ladies...
If you're already taking priests, I'd probably rather take Arcos in a rhino.
CaptainO wrote: I'm looking at running an AS detachment alongside my AM army at an ITC tournament predominantly so I can take Celestine. (Imperium isn't allowed at ITC as a faction) I already have a Priest (Adeptus Ministorum count as Adeptus Sororitas in terms of ITC factions) so a vanguard would only require an extra two elites. What other AS units would you recommend that take advantage of Celestines buffs (extra act of faith etc) that will create a complete detachment with an eye on low points cost.
Also is it worth taking Gemina with Celestine. Does taking them not turn Celestine into a unit that can be targeted if in LOS rather than an independent character?
1 Geminae is worth it, 2 isn't. They remain a single unit of 2 models that are both characters and gain all the character benefits, such as not being targeted.
Why can't you just stick Celestine in with your IG detachment as an HQ choice? ITC ranks your faction by the most points from a single faction in your list. 1800 IG + 200 SoB = IG faction for ITC.
Enjoyed the fact that in the latest Sororitas novel from Black Library "Whispers" - transportation for the detachment and their Rhino's was a Thunderhawk gunship.
CaptainO wrote: I'm looking at running an AS detachment alongside my AM army at an ITC tournament predominantly so I can take Celestine. (Imperium isn't allowed at ITC as a faction) I already have a Priest (Adeptus Ministorum count as Adeptus Sororitas in terms of ITC factions) so a vanguard would only require an extra two elites. What other AS units would you recommend that take advantage of Celestines buffs (extra act of faith etc) that will create a complete detachment with an eye on low points cost.
Two more priests are probably your best option. As outlined elsewhere SoB don't really have an outstanding elite choice. I'd even go so far as to suggest you go Spearhead or Outrider instead, take the priest as an optional elite.
CaptainO wrote: I'm looking at running an AS detachment alongside my AM army at an ITC tournament predominantly so I can take Celestine. (Imperium isn't allowed at ITC as a faction) I already have a Priest (Adeptus Ministorum count as Adeptus Sororitas in terms of ITC factions) so a vanguard would only require an extra two elites. What other AS units would you recommend that take advantage of Celestines buffs (extra act of faith etc) that will create a complete detachment with an eye on low points cost.
Also is it worth taking Gemina with Celestine. Does taking them not turn Celestine into a unit that can be targeted if in LOS rather than an independent character?
You're going to be running an Outrider Detachment, not a Vanguard Detachment, and it's going to have 1 unit of Seraphim, 2 units of Dominions, and their transports. That's the short answer.
Seraphim are good when benefiting from Celestine, but pretty poor otherwise, and Dominions are just good.
The Geminae are also Characters, and none of them have 10 or more wounds, so the entire unit is still untargetable. You're fine bringing her with her Geminae.
pretre wrote: Let me know how the bastion works. I'm curious since it got so much more expensive.
I hadn't read the rules for the bastion yet. 160pts for a 20 wound bubble for rets isn't terrible. I've played against two plasma obliterators and the T9 goes a long way. Plus, 1 squad of 8 rets with 4 heavy bolters gets to fire 8 heavy bolters measured anywhere from the model. Not too shabby. I think? I really can't find any rules about the squad inside firing the guns. Anyone know where they might be located? It's a shame auras don't apply to people inside transports/buildings.
I know the Penitent Engine discussion went on pages ago, but I kind of glossed over it because I didn't have one. Now I've acquired one and I'm halfway through getting it stripped, repaired, and painted. What's the community wisdom on getting them across the table, target priority, etc? I'll be running it solo at 2k in a pretty conventional list vs. all comers. Thanks!
MacPhail wrote: I know the Penitent Engine discussion went on pages ago, but I kind of glossed over it because I didn't have one. Now I've acquired one and I'm halfway through getting it stripped, repaired, and painted. What's the community wisdom on getting them across the table, target priority, etc? I'll be running it solo at 2k in a pretty conventional list vs. all comers. Thanks!
Its a cheaper and better dbl HF Dreadnought, with that said they are a huge threat to Infantry but its still only T6 W7,a couple Lances/Las Cannons can kill it.
I play with 1, i like it, I think the best way to play it is an Anti-Charge unit, 8th it is easy to get turn 1 charges now and many players will have a couple to try to charge tanks like Manticore's so they cant shoot for a couple turns.
Having a Anti-Charge unit, kind hiding out of LoS isnt a bad thing.
pretre wrote: Let me know how the bastion works. I'm curious since it got so much more expensive.
I hadn't read the rules for the bastion yet. 160pts for a 20 wound bubble for rets isn't terrible. I've played against two plasma obliterators and the T9 goes a long way. Plus, 1 squad of 8 rets with 4 heavy bolters gets to fire 8 heavy bolters measured anywhere from the model. Not too shabby. I think? I really can't find any rules about the squad inside firing the guns. Anyone know where they might be located? It's a shame auras don't apply to people inside transports/buildings.
I don't think you can fire the guns - a unit inside means you can select targets as normal but still have to use the Bastions BS.
It was useful but it never got targeted apart from one Fire Prism which bounced off so difficult to rate it - it did give me a secure base for a Sisters squad to hold an objective and 12 Heavy bolter shots a turn BS5 but some still hit.
MacPhail wrote: I know the Penitent Engine discussion went on pages ago, but I kind of glossed over it because I didn't have one. Now I've acquired one and I'm halfway through getting it stripped, repaired, and painted. What's the community wisdom on getting them across the table, target priority, etc? I'll be running it solo at 2k in a pretty conventional list vs. all comers. Thanks!
Its a cheaper and better dbl HF Dreadnought, with that said they are a huge threat to Infantry but its still only T6 W7,a couple Lances/Las Cannons can kill it.
I play with 1, i like it, I think the best way to play it is an Anti-Charge unit, 8th it is easy to get turn 1 charges now and many players will have a couple to try to charge tanks like Manticore's so they cant shoot for a couple turns.
Having a Anti-Charge unit, kind hiding out of LoS isnt a bad thing.
Edit: Spelling, Engrish herd.
Okay, so we're not talking about a countercharge unit, but anti-charge? Do you deploy near the front of your DZ to intercept fast movers or toward the back near the Canoness/HB/Exo castle to screen DSing chargers?
I'm under the impression that AoFs don't apply, so there aren't ways to get them into charge range quickly. Maybe Move/Advance to some cover on T1 while my Dominions draw fire, then Move/Charge on T2 if I can.
deviantduck wrote: Has anyone fielded Rowboat with Sisters yet? I have his box set on order and I'm going to try him out at Iron Halo at the end of the month.
I'm not sure what he'd do for a Sisters list that he wouldn't do much more effectively in an <Ultramarines> list. He's still plenty good as just a big ol' beatstick, but you'd be missing out on his most powerful rule. Let us know how it goes, though, I still think he'll do fine.
Spera wrote: Yeah why wouldn't you bring celestine? People bring her in non-sister armies. No reason for us to not bring BigC.
But so far we are still in better place than ad mech is with Cawl. Cannones is cheap, so you can easily justify her, and sprinkle one or two.
Taking TPD over Cawl anywhere above 1000pts is shooting yourself in the knee.
Because she is silly, it makes the list utterly predictable/non-fluffy, and I feel like a cretin when I use her in anything but Apocalypse.
The Saint shows up to stave off total defeat, she dies and planets burn when she shows up.
And I'm tired of hearing that she is "too good not to take". If my opponent has no clue what is "good" in my army then I have a leg up on them.
I take her b.c i like her fluff and she is a fun model both to play and visually. I dont care if she is good or bad, i look her before her change and i will take her after she is nerfed.
Amishprn86 wrote: I take her b.c i like her fluff and she is a fun model both to play and visually. I dont care if she is good or bad, i look her before her change and i will take her after she is nerfed.
This makes good sense.
I don't care too much about the fluff... the story is cool, I guess, but I'm not concerned about whether it fits or feels right in regular games. What I care about are an honestly competitive unit and a beautiful model, both for the first time in a long time. I bring her regularly at 1k and up, and I never apologize for playing her in a majority Sisters force (full discolsure: I usually run 400 points of Scions at 2k for the competitive edge and to round out the weapons profile of my army... so maybe that's "soup"?). If we had a jump Canoness or a viable assault unit, Celestine wouldnt be the gameplay crutch she's become.
Also, this being a tactics thread... I've come to the conclusion that one Gemina is enough and that the difference between zero and one is way more important than the difference between one and two. I'm going to use the extra 50 points elsewhere and see how Big C holds up. Anyone doing the same as a standard practice?
I use my Saint C very aggressively so I always felt the need for both BFFs. Fielding only one, I would be a lot more afraid of smitespam or multiple high D weapons.
The first gemini is worth maybe 3 or 4 times more than the second. The first adds on the order of 10 extra wounds to Celestine, the second adds 2, maybe 4.
I've only been fielding 1.
As far as things go, I really like Saint Celestine's model, and have always liked her in general, so I'll keep bringing her. I don't see why not too; she's good, and Canonesses seem to me to be an active detriment to my force. If they didn't block Vanguard or had jump packs I'd probably bring at least 1, if not 2, but right now they just don't so anything but cost points and add drops.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: The first gemini is worth maybe 3 or 4 times more than the second. The first adds on the order of 10 extra wounds to Celestine, the second adds 2, maybe 4.
I've only been fielding 1.
As far as things go, I really like Saint Celestine's model, and have always liked her in general, so I'll keep bringing her. I don't see why not too; she's good, and Canonesses seem to me to be an active detriment to my force. If they didn't block Vanguard or had jump packs I'd probably bring at least 1, if not 2, but right now they just don't so anything but cost points and add drops.
I've just started running 2 Canonessses (plus Celestine) at 2k and the jury is still out. The stock Canoness stands with Exorcist and HB rets as warlord. She's always been great. The new one takes inferno pistol and power sword and takes the empty seat in a Dominion Immo. I'm hoping she'll extend the impact of the melta Doms after they start taking casualties or lurk near the stormbolter Doms (and the Imagifier that rides with them). I know turn 1 is lame with that many auras embarked, but theres 4 more turns and I feel like 2 and 3 often determine quite a bit.
You lose a lot of vanguard carting them with your Doms. If your not getting your first turn buffs, you might as well runnthem with a BSS and advance them up behind your Doms turn one. Disembark for fun after that and not blow up your vanguard 1st turn.
dracpanzer wrote: You lose a lot of vanguard carting them with your Doms. If your not getting your first turn buffs, you might as well runnthem with a BSS and advance them up behind your Doms turn one. Disembark for fun after that and not blow up your vanguard 1st turn.
Shoot, that's what I meant. There a rhino with 5 BSS, F/HF/CF, CC Canoness, and Imagifier. They follow three Dominion Immos, one of stormbolters and two of meltas, and try to secure a good midfield position to hopefully deny some open ground, claim an objective, and break something expensive. Its actually kind nice having them arrive turn 2 because they can help the survivors on the doms react to the opponent's countermoves.
dracpanzer wrote: You lose a lot of vanguard carting them with your Doms. If your not getting your first turn buffs, you might as well runnthem with a BSS and advance them up behind your Doms turn one. Disembark for fun after that and not blow up your vanguard 1st turn.
Shoot, that's what I meant. There a rhino with 5 BSS, F/HF/CF, CC Canoness, and Imagifier. They follow three Dominion Immos, one of stormbolters and two of meltas, and try to secure a good midfield position to hopefully deny some open ground, claim an objective, and break something expensive. Its actually kind nice having them arrive turn 2 because they can help the survivors on the doms react to the opponent's countermoves.
That's a pretty good plan/tactic, as the Doms would not usually speed entirely across the board...
They much more comonly stand ground mid-field or be dead on Turn 2 start. Though driving around in repressors they'd get near enemy objectives, depending on how far back-field these are. But the Support Rhino you have should be able to catch up Turn 2.
I'll probably incorporate this in my list now
dracpanzer wrote: You lose a lot of vanguard carting them with your Doms. If your not getting your first turn buffs, you might as well runnthem with a BSS and advance them up behind your Doms turn one. Disembark for fun after that and not blow up your vanguard 1st turn.
Shoot, that's what I meant. There a rhino with 5 BSS, F/HF/CF, CC Canoness, and Imagifier. They follow three Dominion Immos, one of stormbolters and two of meltas, and try to secure a good midfield position to hopefully deny some open ground, claim an objective, and break something expensive. Its actually kind nice having them arrive turn 2 because they can help the survivors on the doms react to the opponent's countermoves.
That's a pretty good plan/tactic, as the Doms would not usually speed entirely across the board...
They much more comonly stand ground mid-field or be dead on Turn 2 start. Though driving around in repressors they'd get near enemy objectives, depending on how far back-field these are. But the Support Rhino you have should be able to catch up Turn 2.
I'll probably incorporate this in my list now
Mine usually cross the entire board, or can at least reach it with their weapons. I'm mostly worried about doing enough damage outright to ensure that they can survive the enemy retaliation.
That's a pretty good plan/tactic, as the Doms would not usually speed entirely across the board...
They much more comonly stand ground mid-field or be dead on Turn 2 start. Though driving around in repressors they'd get near enemy objectives, depending on how far back-field these are. But the Support Rhino you have should be able to catch up Turn 2.
I'll probably incorporate this in my list now
Mine usually cross the entire board, or can at least reach it with their weapons. I'm mostly worried about doing enough damage outright to ensure that they can survive the enemy retaliation.
The few times I've tried this it goes like this: Melta Doms in IF Immolators go their maximum movement and hope to not get their tank shot out from under them before they disembark in melta range the following turn. The Stormbolter Doms and the HB Immo pull up a little short, since they have the range advantage both in terms of the HBs on the tank and the stormbolters inside. They usually try to park near some cover (and hopefully an objective depending on the scenario) so they can disembark into both cover and rapid fire range the following turn. If all of that happens, the support Rhino (love it, I'm stealing that name) rolls up with a flame-heavy BSS to either join the objective campers or line up opposite some infantry to roast. The melee-equipped Canoness and the Imagifier have a few options: join the Stormbolter Doms for re-rolls and AoFs, advance with the flamey BSS for similar reasons, or pick whichever of the Melta Doms weathered the counterpunch the best (usually one squad gets it bad and the other is relatively unscathed). When I've run this it both extends the value of the melta Doms and enhances the impact of the midfield stornbolters.
dracpanzer wrote: Most of that changes with Repressors, but I like it with the Immo's.
Yeah, my regular group, which is pretty much my only group, is so far running a no Forge World paradigm. If some one else proposes changing that, Repressors and I will be all in favor.
dracpanzer wrote: Most of that changes with Repressors, but I like it with the Immo's.
Yeah, my regular group, which is pretty much my only group, is so far running a no Forge World paradigm. If some one else proposes changing that, Repressors and I will be all in favor.
I hate unit bans, players looking for an exploitable advantage will find it no matter what gets banned. If a group can self police enough to ban FW, why can't they do so to fix any perceived exploits amongst those units? I like my swarm of Repressors, but I can just as easily field thirty Repentia and half a dozen PenEngines backed up by a bunch of HB Ret's and Exo's. Pick your poison, roll some dice.
dracpanzer wrote: Most of that changes with Repressors, but I like it with the Immo's.
Yeah, my regular group, which is pretty much my only group, is so far running a no Forge World paradigm. If some one else proposes changing that, Repressors and I will be all in favor.
I hate unit bans, players looking for an exploitable advantage will find it no matter what gets banned. If a group can self police enough to ban FW, why can't they do so to fix any perceived exploits amongst those units? I like my swarm of Repressors, but I can just as easily field thirty Repentia and half a dozen PenEngines backed up by a bunch of HB Ret's and Exo's. Pick your poison, roll some dice.
Yeah.... while Repressors are strong, i dont think its as strong as 60 HB sisters with a Canoness and Imagifiers shooting you with 300 S5 -1ap at 36" behind a wall for a 2+/6++
dracpanzer wrote: Most of that changes with Repressors, but I like it with the Immo's.
Yeah, my regular group, which is pretty much my only group, is so far running a no Forge World paradigm. If some one else proposes changing that, Repressors and I will be all in favor.
I hate unit bans, players looking for an exploitable advantage will find it no matter what gets banned. If a group can self police enough to ban FW, why can't they do so to fix any perceived exploits amongst those units? I like my swarm of Repressors, but I can just as easily field thirty Repentia and half a dozen PenEngines backed up by a bunch of HB Ret's and Exo's. Pick your poison, roll some dice.
In the case of this group, they've played together for years and I don't think many of them play outside the group. I've played with them for three years, and I'm almost the newest member. They're wary of power creep, and with 8th just out we're giving GW a chance to get it right. Had 7th stayed around, we might have gotten around to FW. The last big change they made was opening the door to Lords of War, but a player without one still has right of refusal. Similarly we're trying to play index v. index, codex v. codex, primarch v. primarch, and so on, so that nobody gets completely brutalized until the release schedule evens everyone out. That's not going to get anyone ready for a tournament, but the win/loss records are a little more balanced for it.
dracpanzer wrote: Most of that changes with Repressors, but I like it with the Immo's.
Yeah, my regular group, which is pretty much my only group, is so far running a no Forge World paradigm. If some one else proposes changing that, Repressors and I will be all in favor.
I hate unit bans, players looking for an exploitable advantage will find it no matter what gets banned. If a group can self police enough to ban FW, why can't they do so to fix any perceived exploits amongst those units? I like my swarm of Repressors, but I can just as easily field thirty Repentia and half a dozen PenEngines backed up by a bunch of HB Ret's and Exo's. Pick your poison, roll some dice.
In the case of this group, they've played together for years and I don't think many of them play outside the group. I've played with them for three years, and I'm almost the newest member. They're wary of power creep, and with 8th just out we're giving GW a chance to get it right. Had 7th stayed around, we might have gotten around to FW. The last big change they made was opening the door to Lords of War, but a player without one still has right of refusal. Similarly we're trying to play index v. index, codex v. codex, primarch v. primarch, and so on, so that nobody gets completely brutalized until the release schedule evens everyone out. That's not going to get anyone ready for a tournament, but the win/loss records are a little more balanced for it.
Yeah, I can see how it would. As it is, they got me back to the game after ten-ish years and three-ish editions off. As a Sisters player, I might not have made it back if I'd had to go against knights and baneblades and superfriends right out of the gate. Good guys for sure, but it is a pretty insular and idiosyncratic mini-meta.
Yeah, I can see how it would. As it is, they got me back to the game after ten-ish years and three-ish editions off. As a Sisters player, I might not have made it back if I'd had to go against knights and baneblades and superfriends right out of the gate. Good guys for sure, but it is a pretty insular and idiosyncratic mini-meta.
A person playing with someone new (new ish) should not play those lists , even in a hyper comp meta they still shouldnt, so that shouldnt have been any trouble for. Also SoB had one of the Best HQ's in 7th
The Avenger killed 3 Devastators from the other squad and a Razorback. The Eversor, Rets, and Canoness continued to slap fight. I forgot I have Elysians again.
The Avenger Strike Fighter pilot declares there has been far too much screwing around and ends the Culexus's life.
Things of note:
