I love you. Please, make it so. I have so much to assemble.
Done and done. Not my scan/work :p
Hey, what a guy!
You wouldn't happen to have any DA, would you?
Nah, this was posted in the AdMech facebook group and I live in the middle of nowhere.
Now any guys, that've been witholding the Chaos Daemon scans, can come forward :p
In the meanwhile, I'm gonna go write up this book in a .doc file for better use
After seeing the knight and admech anti air weapons it looks like IG Hydras are going to be BS4+ T7 w12 +3 with Quad autocannon Heavy 8 S7 Ap-1 Dmg2 hitting flyers on 3+ and other stuff on 5+. If we got BS boosting orders or characters I might have to knock the dust off mine
Awesome! Thanks for posting. And thanks for putting it in Spoilers!
Again, it bothers me that Transonic Blades suck so bad. But from the looks of it, I can give the Princeps two Transonic Blades and a Chord Claw while giving the rest of them Razors and a Chord Claw. This was never an option before and it is actually quite awesome.
zalak wrote: Drop pod rules have been leak and well damn they are pretty bad. Can only carry troops (no dreads, or cents :| ) and requires 9" bubble that everyone already has for 100ish points. That has really killed my love for 8th, I can't see the logic in sticking tac troops in a pod instead of taking terminators.
Hold on. You may be applying 7th edition rules that no longer apply in 8th.
Drop Pod Assault ... Any models embarked inside must immediately disembark, but they must be setup more than 9" from enemy models. Any models that cannot be set up because there is not enough room are slain.
Disembark ... Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) during the remainder of their turn.
I see no mention that the squad has any restrictions on what it can do after they Disembark from a Drop Pod. That would definitely justify the points cost if your Marines could move and assault after they get out of the Drop Pod.
zalak wrote: Drop pod rules have been leak and well damn they are pretty bad. Can only carry troops (no dreads, or cents :| ) and requires 9" bubble that everyone already has for 100ish points. That has really killed my love for 8th, I can't see the logic in sticking tac troops in a pod instead of taking terminators.
Hold on. You may be applying 7th edition rules that no longer apply in 8th.
Drop Pod Assault ... Any models embarked inside must immediately disembark, but they must be setup more than 9" from enemy models. Any models that cannot be set up because there is not enough room are slain.
Disembark ... Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) during the remainder of their turn.
I see no mention that the squad has any restrictions on what it can do after they Disembark from a Drop Pod. That would definitely justify the points cost if your Marines could move and assault after they get out of the Drop Pod.
You place the Drop Pod and its contents at the end of the movement phase. Since the Movement phase has ended, the contents can't move.
I saw that the bottom of the Razorback confirms that Primaris can't ride current Marine Transports. I bet they can't even ride in a Land Raider either. So incredibly lame.
Looks I might be getting more electro priests, Corpus dropped 4pts, Fulg dropped 2pts and became much more likely to get that 3+ invuln thanks to the voltagheist field change. They're still not stellar but definitely better and if we get a delivery method for them later down the road then they could be really nasty.
I'm both externally and internally squealing like a child, you sir are wonderful
Wow gauss sucks. So much for one of the greatest weapons in 40K.
It was so great everybody got a piece.
I haven't played Necrons since 5th and I never did like the whole glancing vehicles to death, but at least it was something. You think they would have given it higher damage against vehicles. Like 2 or D3. Oh well.
I'm both externally and internally squealing like a child, you sir are wonderful
Wow gauss sucks. So much for one of the greatest weapons in 40K.
You must be joking, it's better against anything with a 4+ or better than it was in 7th.
The special rule of auto glancing on a 6 was powerful, and now that vehicles have wounds and an armor save, 4+ is better than a 3+
zalak wrote: Drop pod rules have been leak and well damn they are pretty bad. Can only carry troops (no dreads, or cents :| ) and requires 9" bubble that everyone already has for 100ish points. That has really killed my love for 8th, I can't see the logic in sticking tac troops in a pod instead of taking terminators.
While I can respect your feelings for a favorite unit/tactic getting hit - ALL transports went up in points. Some A LOT.
So, this is a pretty universal thing. Also, as a guy who loves drop pods (I even painted the insides of mine, and magnetized the doors) - yeah, they were WAY under-costed before.
So, this kind of should be no surprise.
Overall, as a trend (except bugs....) basic troops stayed about the same cost (or cheaper) and anything bigger went up in points...some times a lot.
(of course, they have a lot more wounds now, but you get the idea).
I loved 2nd, hated 3rd, liked 4th and 5th, and 6th and 7th drove me out of 40K.
So, I'm...cautiously optimistic for 8th, as it looks like an...OK combo of 2nd and 3rd?
I'd be willing to say that this feels a lot like what 3rd Edition would have been if it were the evolutionary facelift to 2nd rather than something that supplanted it (like it ended up doing). A 2.75e if you will.
So yeah, I think the description makes sense. It is a revolutionary change, like 3rd, but mostly in so far as it shares more DNA with 2nd than it does with 3rd to 7th.
Definitely an evolution of 2nd. When third came out the Inquisitor magazine crew had been working on a 40K 2.5 rule set. We had already been using Strength and Toughnesses higher than 10 and Toughness instead of AV for vehicle armor in the Inquisitor Titan and vehicle rules so were carrying it into the new rules. Will be very interesting to compare vehicle and Titan numbers when we get a full set of vehicle rules.
As with others, played Rogue Trader and second edition, but dropped 40K completely shortly after third edition came out. Fifth was better than third, but still not all that great. My only games in fifth were played in a small three game tournament tournament against guys playing in tournaments regularly and I won the tournament. Sixth and then seventh: bleagh... not even. Am very hopeful for 8th though. Would like to start playing 40K again...
Fingers crossed that we get some Thousand Sons leaks soon!
I'm hoping that they get the same buff to psychic as Tzeench in AoS where you match the lowest dice with the highest when casting and denying. That may make them more viable considering that the whole pool of psychic dice deal we banked on has been removed...
We have most everything. Scarabs and exalted still missing. Arian has a plus 1. Maguns plus 2 or 3 possibly.
Whew, so glad I didn't buy all those drop pods I was planning on buying a few months back.
I am really hoping we don't have to wait months for Chapter Tactics. That was the change I was most excited to see. At this point, might as well just "Counts As" Blood Angels, Dark Angels or Space Wolves. Is there any reason to play Vanilla if Chapter Tactics aren't there?
zalak wrote: Drop pod rules have been leak and well damn they are pretty bad. Can only carry troops (no dreads, or cents :| ) and requires 9" bubble that everyone already has for 100ish points. That has really killed my love for 8th, I can't see the logic in sticking tac troops in a pod instead of taking terminators.
Hold on. You may be applying 7th edition rules that no longer apply in 8th.
Drop Pod Assault ... Any models embarked inside must immediately disembark, but they must be setup more than 9" from enemy models. Any models that cannot be set up because there is not enough room are slain.
Disembark ... Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) during the remainder of their turn.
I see no mention that the squad has any restrictions on what it can do after they Disembark from a Drop Pod. That would definitely justify the points cost if your Marines could move and assault after they get out of the Drop Pod.
Drop Pod comes in at the end of the phase. You can charge, but you can't be closer than 9". It'll happen sometimes, but not always. And not being able to Pod dreadnoughts sucks.
zalak wrote: Drop pod rules have been leak and well damn they are pretty bad. Can only carry troops (no dreads, or cents :| ) and requires 9" bubble that everyone already has for 100ish points. That has really killed my love for 8th, I can't see the logic in sticking tac troops in a pod instead of taking terminators.
Hold on. You may be applying 7th edition rules that no longer apply in 8th.
Drop Pod Assault ... Any models embarked inside must immediately disembark, but they must be setup more than 9" from enemy models. Any models that cannot be set up because there is not enough room are slain.
Disembark ... Units that disembark can then act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) during the remainder of their turn.
I see no mention that the squad has any restrictions on what it can do after they Disembark from a Drop Pod. That would definitely justify the points cost if your Marines could move and assault after they get out of the Drop Pod.
Drop Pod comes in at the end of the phase. You can charge, but you can't be closer than 9". It'll happen sometimes, but not always. And not being able to Pod dreadnoughts sucks.
To ne fair, the Dreadnought Drop Pod was FW's thing first. Giving it back to them only seems fair.
Hmm, not sure I like the fact I didn't see the executioner plasma cannon for AS. Maybe it'll just be 3 plasma cannons? Also the exterminator used to be hvy 4 twin linked now its just hvy 4! Lame.
We have always known the Rhino Primaris was going to be in there. It is the Rhino half of the Space Marine Command Tanks. The Land Raider Excelsior is the other half. It can't transport Primaris models. This makes me very angry. Neither can Land Raiders.
Seriously, GW wants me to buy a whole new motor pool for my Space Marines. This is absolutely moronic.
In other news, a Rhino Primaris that overcharges a Plasma Gun will be removed from play. 10/10 I will NEVER be using this function on my Rhino Primaris.
We have always known the Rhino Primaris was going to be in there. It is the Rhino half of the Space Marine Command Tanks. The Land Raider Excelsior is the other half. It can't transport Primaris models. This makes me very angry. Neither can Land Raiders.
Seriously, GW wants me to buy a whole new motor pool for my Space Marines. This is absolutely moronic.
In other news, a Rhino Primaris that overcharges a Plasma Gun will be removed from play. 10/10 I will NEVER be using this function on my Rhino Primaris.
Brian888 wrote: I'm a little depressed that Magnus can now suffer from Perils. Hopefully these are stop-gap rules, and the actual codex will flesh out the models quite a bit more.
Considering, with the rule of one, if you have an army with Magnus and Arhiman you will only be able to cast EACH of the THREE spells you know, total, once... It seems not the best, right now.
Assuming that the Rule of One ports over to 40K, of course. But yeah, the Sons are in serious need of many, many more psychic powers to choose from, as well as systemic boosts to their casting rolls.
No need to assume. We know it is ported over.
Which means psychics aren't scalable at all. The smaller the game, the more effect the bigger spell effects will be. Sigh.
We have always known the Rhino Primaris was going to be in there. It is the Rhino half of the Space Marine Command Tanks. The Land Raider Excelsior is the other half. It can't transport Primaris models. This makes me very angry. Neither can Land Raiders.
Seriously, GW wants me to buy a whole new motor pool for my Space Marines. This is absolutely moronic.
In other news, a Rhino Primaris that overcharges a Plasma Gun will be removed from play. 10/10 I will NEVER be using this function on my Rhino Primaris.
So will a Leman Russ with a plasma cannon.
Are we sure the Leman Russ with a Plasma Cannon doesn't have a Heavy Plasma Cannon like the Stormraven has?
For everyone that keeps saying the Rhino Primaris is the Primaris Marines Rhino:
davethepak wrote: So, does every army have snipers now? Or ways to get character models?
(I think nids will have to use mawlocs...not sure).
Thoughts?
I assume there will be some that don't have snipers, but certain Psychic powers look to be able to single out units. I'm also ok with some armies not having a way to deal with them since each army should play differently and it's not a huge detriment as far as we've seen so far.
Caederes wrote: Or maybe people realize you are not going to prevent 10+ boys from dying in a 30 boy squad in the average of 3 turns it takes them to get into reliable charge range because they move dirt freakin slow.
Averaging 17"+2d6" for 2nd turn assault. 18" between deployment zones. Unless enemy deploys really far(good for orks due to not taking objectives then) you have decent shot at 2nd turn charge.
Has it been stated/confirmed anywhere, that we will get codex releases later on?
I seem to remember something about yearly updates, which I think will get difficult if several books needs to be re-released or FAQ'ed every year?
Or am I missing something?
Rydria wrote: Do auras effect the bearer of the aura as well, so does a herald of Slaanesh, buff her own strength by 1 ?
I don't think so, most of those rules state it affects nearby friendly units with a certain keyword. They don't say anything about the character being able to take it themselves.
axisofentropy wrote: yeah those space marine librarius powers feel twice as good as any others i've seen.
It's blatantly better. Very annoying.
Like I mentioned previously, Tzeentch literally has a power that does (randomly) EITHER str, toughness OR attacks, Marines have the same power but it does all 3.
Rydria wrote: Do auras effect the bearer of the aura as well, so does a herald of Slaanesh, buff her own strength by 1 ?
I don't think so, most of those rules state it affects nearby friendly units with a certain keyword. They don't say anything about the character being able to take it themselves.
If the aura is worded as "Any friendly unit within X" of this unit/hero" it targets itself. At least in AoS it does.
axisofentropy wrote: yeah those space marine librarius powers feel twice as good as any others i've seen.
It's blatantly better. Very annoying.
Like I mentioned previously, Tzeentch literally has a power that does (randomly) EITHER str, toughness OR attacks, Marines have the same power but it does all 3.
This is the moment you realize that in fact, Tigurius has been Tzeentch all along, and that all the Space Marine Librarians are really Chaos Sorcerers! Chaos Space Marines are the loyal ones! Whenever you kill Chaos Cultists you are killing innocent Imperial Citizens!
JUST AS PLANNED!
axisofentropy wrote: yeah those space marine librarius powers feel twice as good as any others i've seen.
It's blatantly better. Very annoying.
Like I mentioned previously, Tzeentch literally has a power that does (randomly) EITHER str, toughness OR attacks, Marines have the same power but it does all 3.
Look again. Txeentch power affects a unit. Librarius power affects a model.
axisofentropy wrote: yeah those space marine librarius powers feel twice as good as any others i've seen.
It's blatantly better. Very annoying.
Like I mentioned previously, Tzeentch literally has a power that does (randomly) EITHER str, toughness OR attacks, Marines have the same power but it does all 3.
Look again. Txeentch power affects a unit. Librarius power affects a model.
So what you're saying is, "it's 1am, go to sleep instead of typing like a madman on the internet"?
it's the other two powers that are shockingly better. re-roll charges AND always fight first? Nullify enemy invulnerable saves AND malus enemy phychic tests?
I'm imagining deep-striking some terminators with a librarian or two next to my enemy's warlord, casting one or both of those, and wrecking them swiftly. could lead to that non-interactive play that most people hate.
If the aura is worded as "Any friendly unit within X" of this unit/hero" it targets itself. At least in AoS it does.
Hmm, I would be very interested to get clarification on this. If it works that way, Sammael would be able to reroll his own overcharged gets hot rolls.
neogeo wrote: Has it been stated/confirmed anywhere, that we will get codex releases later on?
I seem to remember something about yearly updates, which I think will get difficult if several books needs to be re-released or FAQ'ed every year?
Or am I missing something?
It's been stated so long ago and SO many times. Yes, everyone will get codexes with bonus army rules, relics and stratagems...
If the aura is worded as "Any friendly unit within X" of this unit/hero" it targets itself. At least in AoS it does.
Hmm, I would be very interested to get clarification on this. If it works that way, Sammael would be able to reroll his own overcharged gets hot rolls.
The rules on Sammael says "Friend Dark Angels" and he has Keyword "Dark Angels" so yeah he does.
If the aura is worded as "Any friendly unit within X" of this unit/hero" it targets itself. At least in AoS it does.
Hmm, I would be very interested to get clarification on this. If it works that way, Sammael would be able to reroll his own overcharged gets hot rolls.
The rules on Sammael says "Friend Dark Angels" and he has Keyword "Dark Angels" so yeah he does.
That would be pretty wild for Daemons if it is indeed the case as Be'Lakor and other daemon princes would all be hitting on a 2++ rerollable at full health.
If the aura is worded as "Any friendly unit within X" of this unit/hero" it targets itself. At least in AoS it does.
Hmm, I would be very interested to get clarification on this. If it works that way, Sammael would be able to reroll his own overcharged gets hot rolls.
The rules on Sammael says "Friend Dark Angels" and he has Keyword "Dark Angels" so yeah he does.
Right, but it says, "friendly <Dark Angels> units within 6" of this model," without specifying that the model itself gets to take the rule too. I read it as the model being the epicenter of the effect, not being affected by it as well.
If the aura is worded as "Any friendly unit within X" of this unit/hero" it targets itself. At least in AoS it does.
Hmm, I would be very interested to get clarification on this. If it works that way, Sammael would be able to reroll his own overcharged gets hot rolls.
The rules on Sammael says "Friend Dark Angels" and he has Keyword "Dark Angels" so yeah he does.
Right, but it says, "friendly <Dark Angels> units within 6" of this model," without specifying that the model itself gets to take the rule too. I read it as the model being the epicenter of the effect, not being affected by it as well.
This has been covered before by GW, and I think was in one of the facebook feeds. The answer is usually "are you within 6" of your self?" yes, yes you are.
A Leman Russ firing a Plasma Cannon will not explode, it will just lose 6 wounds and then not be able to fire the cannon again. Rule is "Something Plasma Vents". Source, Tank Commander:
alleus wrote: A Leman Russ firing a Plasma Cannon will not explode, it will just lose 6 wounds and then not be able to fire the cannon again. Rule is "Something Plasma Vents". Source, Tank Commander:
Upon some inspection, Magnus the Red seems crazy powerful. 415 points isn't that much compared to the vehicle and monster prices around. It's quite a bit cheaper than a kitted out Wraithknight, even.
Yet, he has a 4+ invulnerable save, T7 18 wounds, utterly recks face in close combat with his sword (S16 AP-4 D3 and 7 attacks boys and can create Chaos Spawns), and casts a ton of spells, including moving himself twice every turn. Even his smite has the potential to do 2D6 mortal wounds every turn, which is pretty insane, is it not, especially considering he gets bonuses for manifesting and denying spells.
I like him at least ^_^ Dude that moves 16" TWICE per turn and demolishes nearly anyone he touches in CC has to be one of the best beatsticks so far.
I'm not sure if his re-roll buff bubble applies to himself. If it does, he's even better. I guess he's a friendly Thousand Son unit.
Right, but it says, "friendly <Dark Angels> units within 6" of this model," without specifying that the model itself gets to take the rule too. I read it as the model being the epicenter of the effect, not being affected by it as well.
This has been covered before by GW, and I think was in one of the facebook feeds. The answer is usually "are you within 6" of your self?" yes, yes you are.
Just sayin.
It's still awkward phrasing, in my opinion. If you put me in a room with my friends, and told me to give a beer to all of my friends within 12' of me, I wouldn't assume that you meant I should take one as well. And if you then asked me if I wasn't my own friend and within 12' of myself, I'd think you were trying to be cute.
Do I have all the leaks? Updating OP is a full time job at the moment, thanks so much to all the people who have been PMing me!
If I didn't credit you for a PM, please let me know as I was updating at work and had to do so quickly
Right, but it says, "friendly <Dark Angels> units within 6" of this model," without specifying that the model itself gets to take the rule too. I read it as the model being the epicenter of the effect, not being affected by it as well.
This has been covered before by GW, and I think was in one of the facebook feeds. The answer is usually "are you within 6" of your self?" yes, yes you are.
Just sayin.
I guess that means Pedro Kantor has SEVEN attacks with his Power Fist at 3+ WS. He is going to wreck major face in CC.
It's still awkward phrasing, in my opinion. If you put me in a room with my friends, and told me to give a beer to all of my friends within 12' of me, I wouldn't assume that you meant I should take one as well. And if you then asked me if I wasn't my own friend and within 12' of myself, I'd think you were trying to be cute.
Since the new edition is SO much like Sigmar - there's like maybe 1% chance that the dude with the aura isn't affected by the aura.
I'm wondering what the keyword <Legion> means. It says, for example: Keywords: Heretic Astartes, <Legion>
Does that mean you can affiliate it with one Legion yourself? Or is <Legion> a keyword on its own that all Legions have something in common?
I'm just wondering as a follow-up to Magnus the Red's rules, as he buffs Thousand Sons units with re-rolls. A lot of the Chaos units, even vehicles or monsters, have the keyword <Legion> in them. If you can just make them Thousand Sons you get more out of the re-rolls naturally.
Therion wrote: I'm wondering what the keyword <Legion> means. It says, for example: Keywords: Heretic Astartes, <Legion>
Does that mean you can affiliate it with one Legion yourself? Or is <Legion> a keyword on its own that all Legions have something in common?
I'm just wondering as a follow-up to Magnus the Red's rules, as he buffs Thousand Sons units with re-rolls. A lot of the Chaos units, even vehicles or monsters, have the keyword <Legion> in them. If you can just make them Thousand Sons you get more out of the re-rolls naturally.
It's a stand in so you can select whatever legion you want for that unit. So your Havocs or Land Raider or whatever unit could be World Eaters, Thousand Sons, or a legion you made up.
Therion wrote: I'm wondering what the keyword <Legion> means. It says, for example: Keywords: Heretic Astartes, <Legion>
Does that mean you can affiliate it with one Legion yourself? Or is <Legion> a keyword on its own that all Legions have something in common?
I'm just wondering as a follow-up to Magnus the Red's rules, as he buffs Thousand Sons units with re-rolls. A lot of the Chaos units, even vehicles or monsters, have the keyword <Legion> in them. If you can just make them Thousand Sons you get more out of the re-rolls naturally.
Yep that seems to be how it works with any of the keywords in < > being replaceable with a specific Legion/Chapter/Craftworld ect. Although some do have limitations on what units they can be used with.
Megaknob wrote: All of that war gear is built into its profile to begin with or do you have to add every single weapon to every single model in your army ?
Matched play requires you to add it all up. But lots of basic wargear is 0.
I think power level will catch on as a preferred way to play pickup games as it's so much simpler. I will just require wysiwyg and that prevents power game shenanigans typically. For tournaments I think matched is still the way to go.
I really don't think so. Everyone is going to have favorite loadouts with their points memorized or written down. It really isn't much harder to remember 187 than 17.
Whatabout players who change everything game by game?
Aye, the Ad mech explanation of <Forge World> is you can use any of the forge world's from GW's background or books or invent your own. Nice and flexible really.
And that Neutron laser and Icarus Array for the Onager Dunecrawler...oh my.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Aye, the Ad mech explanation of <Forge World> is you can use any of the forge world's from GW's background or books or invent your own. Nice and flexible really.
And that Neutron laser and Icarus Array for the Onager Dunecrawler...oh my.
Sadly, you will always say "Mars" due to Belisarius.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Aye, the Ad mech explanation of <Forge World> is you can use any of the forge world's from GW's background or books or invent your own. Nice and flexible really.
And that Neutron laser and Icarus Array for the Onager Dunecrawler...oh my.
I am so glad I gave my Onager a Neutron Laser.
I think I am going to use Mars as my Forge World so I can get Cawl, but still flavor it as Forge World Tarn (which is Dark Angels colors, BTW). (Above poster is right, Mars will be the only Forge World people will see until a character comes out for some of the other Forge Worlds.)
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: @ casvalremdeikun the damage rolls of 1 or 2 counting as a 3 is plain nasty on the neutron laser.
I know. It is going to be awesome. Donkeytank to the rescue! I think I need to get another Skitarii Start Collecting.
I still gotta say, I am thrilled I will be able to give the Princeps for my Ruststalkers twin Transonic Blades and a Chord Claw while still giving the rest of the Unit Transonic Razors and Chord Claws. This way I still get the awesome looking dual-wielder (tri-wielder?) without having to sacrifice the effectiveness of the whole squad. One thing I did notice that was missing was the dataspike tail thing. It makes me sad! And it is dumb, since the model has the part, but now it doesn't do anything.
casvalremdeikun wrote: In other news, a Rhino Primaris that overcharges a Plasma Gun will be removed from play. 10/10 I will NEVER be using this function on my Rhino Primaris.
Said this on other thread to other but you KNOW that just begs for you to run into situation where it's maybe win and automatically lose if you don't
Or in tournament you end up in situation where you win 20-0 if you take a shot and succeed, 13-7 if you don't and 7-13 if you take and fail spectaculary(that actually happened to me once. Had to take a shot with executioner LR to win 20-0. Tried, blew out own baneblade instead, lost narrowly).
casvalremdeikun wrote: In other news, a Rhino Primaris that overcharges a Plasma Gun will be removed from play. 10/10 I will NEVER be using this function on my Rhino Primaris.
Said this on other thread to other but you KNOW that just begs for you to run into situation where it's maybe win and automatically lose if you don't
Or in tournament you end up in situation where you win 20-0 if you take a shot and succeed, 13-7 if you don't and 7-13 if you take and fail spectaculary(that actually happened to me once. Had to take a shot with executioner LR to win 20-0. Tried, blew out own baneblade instead, lost narrowly).
Oh I am totally going to blow that sucker up in a glorious fashion at least once. Best thing about it is that it will still trigger an explosion result so I could blow it up while blowing it up to blow other stuff up.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: @ casvalremdeikun the damage rolls of 1 or 2 counting as a 3 is plain nasty on the neutron laser.
Onagers looks INSANE. They pretty much left icarus as is but pretty much removed the huge penalty for shooting at non-flying.
And Neutron is just... just... *barfs rainbows*
alleus wrote: A Leman Russ firing a Plasma Cannon will not explode, it will just lose 6 wounds and then not be able to fire the cannon again. Rule is "Something Plasma Vents". Source, Tank Commander:
Emergency Plasma Vents.
Leman russ executioner is even more of a suicide tank than before! Before it had 5 shots so in average not even hull pointing itself every turn. Now with average 7 shots odds of not rolling 1 diminishes a lot and 4 shots of those halve wounds(worse than previous) AND take out 2 plasma cannons...
And executioner cannon went from 3 plasma templates to mere d6 shots.
Exterminator autocannon also got halved in firepower.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: @ casvalremdeikun the damage rolls of 1 or 2 counting as a 3 is plain nasty on the neutron laser.
Onagers looks INSANE. They pretty much left icarus as is but pretty much removed the huge penalty for shooting at non-flying.
And Neutron is just... just... *barfs rainbows*
Onagers are pretty tough too point by point. Quickly looking the Neutron setup it still costs under 150 points, yet brings 11 T7 wounds and an invulnerable save together with the heavy guns.
Anyone else notice that two of the AM orders are identical?
Also, do the new shooting/wounding rules mean that if the Baneblade cannon hits an infantry squad, it just kills 2D6 guys really, really dead? (As opposed to pretty much the entire squad, plus the one next to it currently)
Gordy2000 wrote: Anyone else notice that two of the AM orders are identical?
Also, do the new shooting/wounding rules mean that if the Baneblade cannon hits an infantry squad, it just kills 2D6 guys really, really dead? (As opposed to pretty much the entire squad, plus the one next to it currently)
Yes. 2d6 shots, you roll to hit and to wound for them. Then damage but damage does not spill out.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: @ casvalremdeikun the damage rolls of 1 or 2 counting as a 3 is plain nasty on the neutron laser.
Onagers looks INSANE. They pretty much left icarus as is but pretty much removed the huge penalty for shooting at non-flying.
And Neutron is just... just... *barfs rainbows*
If the Neutron Laser can shoot Flyers out of the sky...
That is what I was getting at. It is one weapon, so when you fire it, you use all of those profiles. I wasn't exactly clear though. Thanks for being better and words to keyboard than me.
So for Canticles of the Omnissiah you could choose the option you wanted for the first 3 turns, and then start rolling on the D6 table hoping to get one of the best ones again?
Don't get too excited about sub-factions yet (Clans / Septs / Forge-worlds, etc). They mostly seem to exist as a placeholder rule for now. Currently all we've seen them do is restrict AoE buffs, so you can't have both a Dark Angel and Space Wolf character buffing everyone nearby.
GW will probably flesh them out later with unique stratagems or USRs, but for now they're largely irrelevant.
Did anyone else notice in the Necron leaks that Obyron can basically Deepstrike himself and another unit MOVE THAN 1 INCH from the enemy?????
That's basically a guaranteed charge. Necron aren't great in close combat, but can tear up some soft to medium toughness opponents. That would also be nice for close-range shooting.
Plas-Destroyers all the way! 36 inches and with reroll 1s as canticle or in 6 inches to Belisarius? Jeeeeez...Supercharge all day everyday!
While I am a little bit annoyed that the army got dumbed down a little and instead of pumping Sicarian they just got cheaper and worse (the hell with the Infiltrators Aura?!), I do love what is happening with this.
Our Donkeytank is nothing short but insane! Sadly, Dragoons got a little kick to the teeth but hey...
Adeptus Mechanicus is finally on the tables outside of the War Convocation. It was about damn time! (and no, I am no WarCon player, I rally tried to make CultMech and Skitarii work at tournaments without that dumbass datasheet^^)
One reason for increased points costs for eldar rangers/tau snipers is with vehicles now all having a T value, maybe snipers are going to be Tank hunters?
Sort of like back in 3rd edition when T8 wraithlord's stomped armies, some people were using sniper squads to take them down.
Bottle wrote: So for Canticles of the Omnissiah you could choose the option you wanted for the first 3 turns, and then start rolling on the D6 table hoping to get one of the best ones again?
Iago40k wrote: Plas-Destroyers all the way! 36 inches and with reroll 1s as canticle or in 6 inches to Belisarius? Jeeeeez...Supercharge all day everyday!
While I am a little bit annoyed that the army got dumbed down a little and instead of pumping Sicarian they just got cheaper and worse (the hell with the Infiltrators Aura?!), I do love what is happening with this.
Our Donkeytank is nothing short but insane! Sadly, Dragoons got a little kick to the teeth but hey...
Adeptus Mechanicus is finally on the tables outside of the War Convocation. It was about damn time! (and no, I am no WarCon player, I rally tried to make CultMech and Skitarii work at tournaments without that dumbass datasheet^^)
Yeah but Sicarians got a LOT cheaper
Also, how are Dragoons a lot worse? I didn't use them, so do tell.
One reason for increased points costs for eldar rangers/tau snipers is with vehicles now all having a T value, maybe snipers are going to be Tank hunters?
Sort of like back in 3rd edition when T8 wraithlord's stomped armies, some people were using sniper squads to take them down.
Yes, when using a Sniper weapon, if you roll a 6+ when rolling to wound, the target takes a wound AND a mortal wound. It can target characters even if they aren't the closest unit.
One reason for increased points costs for eldar rangers/tau snipers is with vehicles now all having a T value, maybe snipers are going to be Tank hunters?
Sort of like back in 3rd edition when T8 wraithlord's stomped armies, some people were using sniper squads to take them down.
Yes, when using a Sniper weapon, if you roll a 6+ when rolling to wound, the target takes a wound AND a mortal wound. It can target characters even if they aren't the closest unit.
Do they still always wound on a 4+? (i havent played since 5th so I dont know the 6th/7th rules)
looking at that one change leaps out at me immediatly
Veterans are ELITES now. but unless it's on a page that hasn't been photographed it looks like Guard players may not have to take platoons now, which outta make things easier for them.
This thread is moving faster than I can keep up with, but I wanted to thank Rippy for all the great work keeping the OP up to date. Greatly appreciated!
One reason for increased points costs for eldar rangers/tau snipers is with vehicles now all having a T value, maybe snipers are going to be Tank hunters?
Sort of like back in 3rd edition when T8 wraithlord's stomped armies, some people were using sniper squads to take them down.
Yes, when using a Sniper weapon, if you roll a 6+ when rolling to wound, the target takes a wound AND a mortal wound. It can target characters even if they aren't the closest unit.
Do they still always wound on a 4+? (i havent played since 5th so I dont know the 6th/7th rules)
No. They wound based on their strength. SM Sniper Rifles are only Str 4. But if you roll a 6+, no saves can be taken against the mortal wound.
casvalremdeikun wrote: No. They wound based on their strength. SM Sniper Rifles are only Str 4. But if you roll a 6+, no saves can be taken against the mortal wound.
My only thought about vets being elites, infantry squad troops, her heavy and sws as elite is that since they're in a weird order on the page jtroop, elite, heavy, elite) then that may well mean they're part of a platoon? But yeah, kinda excited by that as it means the new detachments are VERY easy to fill out.
Also, note the tank commander can order himself to reroll 1s to hit for his plasma cannons....
Geifer wrote: This thread is moving faster than I can keep up with, but I wanted to thank Rippy for all the great work keeping the OP up to date. Greatly appreciated!
Seconded! Been crazy trying to keep up, can't imagine having to update things while doing so.
Those guard sneak peeks are sexy. I like the extra movement granted by the orders, one let's you about fter running, the other gives you an extra move that you also get to run in.
Yeah but Sicarians got a LOT cheaper
Also, how are Dragoons a lot worse? I didn't use them, so do tell.
I am not a fan of T6. Any Bolter can wound them on a 5+ which sucks.
In a vacuum they are still very very good and you should play them. I know the models are expensive but good lord they were the backbone of my army in 7th. And still will do a great job in 8th. In 7th they had 3 jobs: Distracting the enemy with scout and their insane movement speed to stand in front of the enemies army at the end of t1, killing stuff in a charge with their nasty melee weapons (I am looking at you Khornedogs) and, even more important, buffing my Cult Mechanicus units. I used them as moving intervening models for a cover save. Most armies had to shoot through them to get to my Grav Destroyers...but if you used shroudpsalm, those devastating units had a 2+ cover save in the open. Or they had to shoot at the Dragoons which had a 5+ cover save as ability, and in the best of circumstances +1 due to night fight and +1 due to a miserious objective with +1 cover. So a 3+ on a AV11 walker in the open For 90 points for 2 Dragoons and very large models. I played 3 times 2 Dragoons and they have been worth their points in every single game I have ever played with them. Easily my favorite unit of Skitarii in 7th.
Can someone explain to me exactly how a Battle Cannon works now?
So it's Heavy D6, so do I roll D6 and that's how many SHOTS or HITS I get? If it's shots, then I'm not really in love with this change. Say you get 4 shots, you will probably hit 2 or 3 and then wound 2. On larger models that could be 6 wounds, but it's still only two dead MEQs, IF they fail their saves which they get now..
Also, wasn't the point in removing blast markers that it would be faster? I am having a hard time seeing how this process would be faster:
New system: Roll for shots, roll for hits, roll for wounds, save, roll for damage (if applicable, will not be needed most of the time I suppose).
Old system: Roll scatter, roll for wounds, save (if any).
If the Russ somehow got cheaper, I can sorta get behind this, but I don't think they got cheaper. Since most vehicles got more expensive now I don't think the Russ would have gotten cheaper. Do we have IG points somewhere?
Also with Veterans being Elite now, I need to take regular Guardsmen for scoring? Or do we know how scoring/obsec works in this edition yet?
alleus wrote: Can someone explain to me exactly how a Battle Cannon works now?
So it's Heavy D6, so do I roll D6 and that's how many SHOTS or HITS I get? If it's shots, then I'm not really in love with this change. Say you get 4 shots, you will probably hit 2 or 3 and then wound 2. On larger models that could be 6 wounds, but it's still only two dead MEQs, IF they fail their saves which they get now..
Also, wasn't the point in removing blast markers that it would be faster? I am having a hard time seeing how this process would be faster:
New system: Roll for shots, roll for hits, roll for wounds, save, roll for damage (if applicable, will not be needed most of the time I suppose).
Old system: Roll scatter, roll for wounds, save (if any).
If the Russ somehow got cheaper, I can sorta get behind this, but I don't think they got cheaper. Since most vehicles got more expensive now I don't think the Russ would have gotten cheaper. Do we have IG points somewhere?
Also with Veterans being Elite now, I need to take regular Guardsmen for scoring? Or do we know how scoring/obsec works in this edition yet?
You're not including all the time it took to move and space models to mitigate Blast damage. Also the inane "4 guys. No 6. Pretty sure it's 4, maybe a case for that 5th guy..."
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Latro he is also the first I've seen with a Power Fist equivalent that doesn't hit you with a -1.
alleus wrote: Can someone explain to me exactly how a Battle Cannon works now?
So it's Heavy D6, so do I roll D6 and that's how many SHOTS or HITS I get? If it's shots, then I'm not really in love with this change. Say you get 4 shots, you will probably hit 2 or 3 and then wound 2. On larger models that could be 6 wounds, but it's still only two dead MEQs, IF they fail their saves which they get now..
Also, wasn't the point in removing blast markers that it would be faster? I am having a hard time seeing how this process would be faster:
New system: Roll for shots, roll for hits, roll for wounds, save, roll for damage (if applicable, will not be needed most of the time I suppose).
Old system: Roll scatter, roll for wounds, save (if any).
If the Russ somehow got cheaper, I can sorta get behind this, but I don't think they got cheaper. Since most vehicles got more expensive now I don't think the Russ would have gotten cheaper. Do we have IG points somewhere?
Also with Veterans being Elite now, I need to take regular Guardsmen for scoring? Or do we know how scoring/obsec works in this edition yet?
You're not including all the time it took to move and space models to mitigate Blast damage. Also the inane "4 guys. No 6. Pretty sure it's 4, maybe a case for that 5th guy..."
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Latro he is also the first I've seen with a Power Fist equivalent that doesn't hit you with a -1.
Not to mention "It scatters X inches that way. No, not that way, *that* way. No, no, the other way."
alleus wrote: Can someone explain to me exactly how a Battle Cannon works now?
So it's Heavy D6, so do I roll D6 and that's how many SHOTS or HITS I get? If it's shots, then I'm not really in love with this change. Say you get 4 shots, you will probably hit 2 or 3 and then wound 2. On larger models that could be 6 wounds, but it's still only two dead MEQs, IF they fail their saves which they get now..
Also, wasn't the point in removing blast markers that it would be faster? I am having a hard time seeing how this process would be faster:
New system: Roll for shots, roll for hits, roll for wounds, save, roll for damage (if applicable, will not be needed most of the time I suppose).
Old system: Roll scatter, roll for wounds, save (if any).
If the Russ somehow got cheaper, I can sorta get behind this, but I don't think they got cheaper. Since most vehicles got more expensive now I don't think the Russ would have gotten cheaper. Do we have IG points somewhere?
Also with Veterans being Elite now, I need to take regular Guardsmen for scoring? Or do we know how scoring/obsec works in this edition yet?
You're not including all the time it took to move and space models to mitigate Blast damage. Also the inane "4 guys. No 6. Pretty sure it's 4, maybe a case for that 5th guy..."
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Latro he is also the first I've seen with a Power Fist equivalent that doesn't hit you with a -1.
Not to mention "It scatters X inches that way. No, not that way, *that* way. No, no, the other way."
Yes, I can agree on the whole scatter issue. That will probably go faster, but the new system has so much dice rolling I can't help but think it will take some time as well.
In either case the time is not the biggest issue for me. In my experience I hit more often than I scattered, so I am just not sure if this new Battle Cannon is better or worse. It feels worse just thinking about it right now, but maybe I need to actually see it in action first. I just want my tank list, focused on Leman Russes, to actually be viable and feel as powerful as a tank army should feel!
I'm both externally and internally squealing like a child, you sir are wonderful
Wow gauss sucks. So much for one of the greatest weapons in 40K.
Wtf are you on about? You guys now get eternal reanimation protocol, are pretty cheap at 120pts with a -1 ap... Necrons look badass in 8th ed. I'm freaked out to play against a faction that always scared me before. Now factions like Orks, who won't do very much shooting damage to you, basically can't take you out if you role lucky.
Latro_ wrote: Olde gaz is a bit of a beast 8 wounds, 2+ 4++!
+1 attack for units so near a unit of 20 choppa boyz they charge in get 100 s4 attacks! 20 boyz!
Even better, 2 attacks base, + 1 for having a choppa, + 1 for being a unit of more than 20, add weirdboy to cast warpath on them (+1 attack) and add ghazghkull equals a total of 6 attacks per boy. 30 man squad can potentially have 180 attacks.
Of course that would require the stars aligning and is unlikely to ever happen but hey lets dream.
alleus wrote: A Leman Russ firing a Plasma Cannon will not explode, it will just lose 6 wounds and then not be able to fire the cannon again. Rule is "Something Plasma Vents". Source, Tank Commander:
Emergency Plasma Vents.
Leman russ executioner is even more of a suicide tank than before! Before it had 5 shots so in average not even hull pointing itself every turn. Now with average 7 shots odds of not rolling 1 diminishes a lot and 4 shots of those halve wounds(worse than previous) AND take out 2 plasma cannons...
And executioner cannon went from 3 plasma templates to mere d6 shots.
Exterminator autocannon also got halved in firepower.
Geifer wrote: This thread is moving faster than I can keep up with, but I wanted to thank Rippy for all the great work keeping the OP up to date. Greatly appreciated!
No worries, still a bit behind but currently playing catch up!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Honestly only reason we have most of the leaks is thanks to people PMing me them
lolman1c wrote: Wtf are you on about? You guys now get eternal reanimation protocol, are pretty cheap at 120pts with a -1 ap... Necrons look badass in 8th ed. I'm freaked out to play against a faction that always scared me before. Now factions like Orks, who won't do very much shooting damage to you, basically can't take you out if you role lucky.
Necrons look great against infantry but they can't deal with big models at all. If someone takes a Wraithknight, Imperial Knight, 3 Rhinos, or frankly any model with 10+ wounds, Necrons may as well pack up and go home. We're talking 1 lascannon for 75 points level of screwed for Necrons, and that's the cheapest possible option for AT in the entire army.
To be blunt, I don't think you'll be seeing many Necron armies in 8th, especially if Marines and Tyranids are are ridiculous on the table as they look on paper.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Latro he is also the first I've seen with a Power Fist equivalent that doesn't hit you with a -1.
Abaddon does not either but his fist isnt as good s8 gaz is s12! plus gaz does 3 damage standard abby is d3
The grey knight character from gathering storms thunder hammer also hits without the -1 penalty by the looks of things. I expect Calgar to be the same.
lolman1c wrote: Wtf are you on about? You guys now get eternal reanimation protocol, are pretty cheap at 120pts with a -1 ap... Necrons look badass in 8th ed. I'm freaked out to play against a faction that always scared me before. Now factions like Orks, who won't do very much shooting damage to you, basically can't take you out if you role lucky.
Necrons look great against infantry but they can't deal with big models at all. If someone takes a Wraithknight, Imperial Knight, 3 Rhinos, or frankly any model with 10+ wounds, Necrons may as well pack up and go home. We're talking 1 lascannon for 75 points level of screwed for Necrons, and that's the cheapest possible option for AT in the entire army.
To be blunt, I don't think you'll be seeing many Necron armies in 8th, especially if Marines and Tyranids are are ridiculous on the table as they look on paper.
I don't see the problem, just bring immortal with a -2 or tesla cannon. Plus we don't know if scarabs are just gunu eat up vehicles yet (now they attack first).
Thank you for the leaks and the translations of said leaks. They've gotten me even more pumped for this release, which I didn't think was humanly possible.
From the Italian leak there was a melee weapon called "Mandibles" that was S:user and AP: 0 with damage 1, but the rule that if the target had higher T than the model's S it'd always wound on a 5+.
I think that's the weapon sacarbs use, meaning they actually are pretty useful, expecially if they keep being so mobile and with a good number of attacks.
SO the IG faction focus made reference to Vets being super soldiers and heavy weapon squads being good too. Both look the same barring moving FOC slot. Obviously there is other stuff to be revealed but I have no idea what they are talking about.
alleus wrote: A Leman Russ firing a Plasma Cannon will not explode, it will just lose 6 wounds and then not be able to fire the cannon again. Rule is "Something Plasma Vents". Source, Tank Commander:
Emergency Plasma Vents.
Leman russ executioner is even more of a suicide tank than before! Before it had 5 shots so in average not even hull pointing itself every turn. Now with average 7 shots odds of not rolling 1 diminishes a lot and 4 shots of those halve wounds(worse than previous) AND take out 2 plasma cannons...
And executioner cannon went from 3 plasma templates to mere d6 shots.
Exterminator autocannon also got halved in firepower.
Eradicator might be russ of choise in the future.
This is why you always magnetise Russ weapons
And is it a suicide tank? Only if you overcharge, and even then you can mitigate it with the right orders.
From the DE leaks, poison still wounds on 4+, but wounds vehicles on 6+.
Haywire is S4 AP-1, but does a mortal wounds on vehicles on a 4+ to wound, and D3 mortal wound on a 6+, on top of the normal damage.
I'm pretty happy with poison. Haywire is a bit weird, as it does mortal wounds, but you still only do <1 wound per shot (assuming BS3+). So while it stills wounds large vehicles as easily as small ones, the sheer number of wounds of things like IK mean they won't die to haywire too quickly.
lolman1c wrote: Wtf are you on about? You guys now get eternal reanimation protocol, are pretty cheap at 120pts with a -1 ap... Necrons look badass in 8th ed. I'm freaked out to play against a faction that always scared me before. Now factions like Orks, who won't do very much shooting damage to you, basically can't take you out if you role lucky.
Necrons look great against infantry but they can't deal with big models at all. If someone takes a Wraithknight, Imperial Knight, 3 Rhinos, or frankly any model with 10+ wounds, Necrons may as well pack up and go home. We're talking 1 lascannon for 75 points level of screwed for Necrons, and that's the cheapest possible option for AT in the entire army.
To be blunt, I don't think you'll be seeing many Necron armies in 8th, especially if Marines and Tyranids are are ridiculous on the table as they look on paper.
You kidding me? High Power doomsday cannon is scary as hell to big models, specially now that does d3 shots rather than one and d6 damage. Specially if they don't have invulnerable saves.
"Deathwatch Librarians and Chaplains may not be equipped with jump packs."
"A Deathwatch Chaplain may not be equipped with a power fist."
"A Deathwatch Librarian in Terminator may not be equipped with a storm shield."
Why?
These restrictions made no sense in the Deathwatch Codex. Why would you keep them? They're so fething arbitrary.
RandyMcStab wrote: SO the IG faction focus made reference to Vets being super soldiers and heavy weapon squads being good too. Both look the same barring moving FOC slot. Obviously there is other stuff to be revealed but I have no idea what they are talking about.
Heavy weapons got fixes on certain heavy weapons, point efficiency and survivability boost.
"Deathwatch Librarians and Chaplains may not be equipped with jump packs."
"A Deathwatch Chaplain may not be equipped with a power fist."
"A Deathwatch Librarian in Terminator may not be equipped with a storm shield."
Why?
These restrictions made no sense in the Deathwatch Codex. Why would you keep them? They're so fething arbitrary.
I saw all the Necron stuff. It was basically what I expected, although Deathmarks no longer have a 2+ wounding ability, Szeras doesn't give out a 5++ bubble and the Triarch Stalker only gives rerolls of 1's. Also, the T C'tan just makes things ignore cover of enemies within 6" of it which seems pretty much worthless. Generally, they still seem pretty screwed against big models.
I managed to get hold of all the Harlequin stuff. It makes me very happy.
Yes, it will help the shadowseer and its 7+ save And now it's army-wide 4+ invul (including vehicles). So Harlequins officially don't care at all about the opponent's AP. I don't think it's great game design.
But a few things are weird. Like how come a neuro disruptor is 10pts when a fusion pistol is 9? The fusion is higher S, better AP, more damages, no restrictions on vehicles. The only small drawback is the shorter range.
The Kiss seems a bit too expensive compared to the caress too.
I'm pretty sad to see that becoming Ynarri will still be a no-brainer. Loosing run+charge and H&R to gain SftD is always worthwhile imo. And you don't even need to bring another faction's HQ to do that now.
Got through most of the Dangle stuff before it went down. Didn't get to the unit costs though.
In either case, Deathwing Knights are not 3W and lost shield wall. In return they gained the standard extra terminator wound (of course) and the Mace of Absolution is basically a thunder hammer with no to-hit penalty (the flail can cause overflow damage as hinted previously).
It also looks like SM bikes are going to 2 wounds now (at least all the basic RW were).
Plasma Talons are Assault 2 with the usual overcharge rule. The hammer RWBK's wield is +1S/-1AP and deals d3 damage on rolls to wound of 6.
Didn't see anything about Dangles re-rolling all plasma (but re-roll 1's is a common commander rule so no biggie).
Deathwing basically dumped all the cruft extra rules they had accumulated. They are just fearless terminators (as it should be). Just wish I knew the cost!
The Darkshroud creates a bubble where units within are -1 to hit. And the big DA speeders are now 9 wound with T6.
Sableclaw looks monstrous now, but as a vehicle it can be targeted freely despite also being a character. But it has 7 wounds, T6, 3+/4++ and the weapons you would expect (including the previously spoiled x2 strength on the charge Raven Sword). Looks to actually maybe be worth taking this edition.
Sadly, that's all I can remember until it's back up.
Ronin_eX wrote: Got through most of the Dangle stuff before it went down. Didn't get to the unit costs though.
In either case, Deathwing Knights are not 3W and lost shield wall. In return they gained the standard extra terminator wound (of course) and the Mace of Absolution is basically a thunder hammer with no to-hit penalty (the flail can cause overflow damage as hinted previously).
It also looks like SM bikes are going to 2 wounds now (at least all the basic RW were).
Plasma Talons are Assault 2 with the usual overcharge rule. The hammer RWBK's wield is +1S/-1AP and deals d3 damage on rolls to wound of 6.
Didn't see anything about Dangles re-rolling all plasma (but re-roll 1's is a common commander rule so no biggie).
Deathwing basically dumped all the cruft extra rules they had accumulated. They are just fearless terminators (as it should be). Just wish I knew the cost!
The Darkshroud creates a bubble where units within are -1 to hit. And the big DA speeders are now 9 wound with T6.
Sableclaw looks monstrous now, but as a vehicle it can be targeted freely despite also being a character. But it has 7 wounds, T6, 3+/4++ and the weapons you would expect (including the previously spoiled x2 strength on the charge Raven Sword). Looks to actually maybe be worth taking this edition.
Sadly, that's all I can remember until it's back up.
Okay so vanquisher cannon is more expensive than battlecannon and worse against tanks AND infantry. GG. Wonder what it's supposed to be for? Against another russ BC wins. Against infantry BC wins. Against necron quantum shielding BC wins. I was expecting VC to at least be cheaper then but seems that was in error...
And points are funny in a way. Volcano cannon 0 points. Wonder how they would do if something could upgrade to volcano cannon while shadowstorm would stay as it is. Wonder why they didn't just go for base price+price of weapons for everything uniformedly rather than this way.
And volcano cannon 2d6 damage. Makes that VERY poor against quantum shield On average roll you cause 0 damage! Heh. Still feels odd that best weapons against necron tanks are weak anti-light vehicle guns rather than heavy stuff.
I gotta say, I am a bit disappointed that Codex Space Marines Chapters don't grant any special rules at this point. Where's my Boltgun rerolls for Crimson Fists?! Oh well, Pedro is going to be fun to run. He is a beast and I can't wait to play him. I would have stuck him with a Hellblaster Squad, but for whatever reason, Primaris Marines can't ride in ANY of the Space Marine vehicles.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I gotta say, I am a bit disappointed that Codex Space Marines Chapters don't grant any special rules at this point. Where's my Boltgun rerolls for Crimson Fists?! Oh well, Pedro is going to be fun to run. He is a beast and I can't wait to play him. I would have stuck him with a Hellblaster Squad, but for whatever reason, Primaris Marines can't ride in ANY of the Space Marine vehicles.
They are coming when the actual codex start to drop.
Well. No more tau-eldar or tyranid-something else alliances in matched play it seems. In matched play you need to share at least one faction keyword within all detachments.
I'm sure not many will weep loss of taudar but sucks when part of your army is now invalid without heavy reinforcements. I remember WHF 6th ed when quickly my chaos army lost hefty chunk of it when beastmen went to their own and I would have needed to invest a lot and then daemons likewise.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
casvalremdeikun wrote: I gotta say, I am a bit disappointed that Codex Space Marines Chapters don't grant any special rules at this point. Where's my Boltgun rerolls for Crimson Fists?! Oh well, Pedro is going to be fun to run. He is a beast and I can't wait to play him. I would have stuck him with a Hellblaster Squad, but for whatever reason, Primaris Marines can't ride in ANY of the Space Marine vehicles.
If I wasn't sure they would be coming later I would be overjoyed. No more rules driving armies to unfluffy junk like all bike white scars and less incentive to chapter hopping between games.
tneva82 wrote: Well. No more tau-eldar or tyranid-something else alliances in matched play it seems. In matched play you need to share at least one faction keyword within all detachments.
I'm sure not many will weep loss of taudar but sucks when part of your army is now invalid without heavy reinforcements. I remember WHF 6th ed when quickly my chaos army lost hefty chunk of it when beastmen went to their own and I would have needed to invest a lot and then daemons likewise.
Taudar was broken as hell, no-one using them was doing anything but investing in a big old slab of
They finally did it! They managed to price Deathwing the same as normal terminators by not adding a bunch of pointless to their profile!
And it looks like Deathwing Knights are 50 points a pop (stormshield included). They are pretty damn resilient now and hit about as hard as TH/SS terminators, but without the penalty to hit. Bring a Deathwing Ancient along and a Librarian to pop Veil of Time and they can get downright scary off a teleport assault. Or better still, pop them in an LRC because the stupid army doesn't live or die on teleport assault anymore! Rejoice!
So for once, Deathwing lack the insane markup they've been used to and have a ton of great units to buff them. Their fearlessness is nice, but due to the small sizes and huge toughness, it isn't all that different from ATSKNF in most cases. So for once, we get something that is costed appropriately and still fluffy. This is basically all I could have hoped for.
Meanwhile, with bikes at 2 wounds, RW are looking pretty damn good, even with a nerfed Jink. They'll certainly be giving Inceptors a run for their money. 50 points a pop, still great shooters, still excellent in close combat, faster, and better protected. About all they lack in comparison is Fly.
Sadly, still no Master on a bike (unfortunately the RW company champ is Elite, so not a good replacement). So this kind of screws Ravenwing a bit, but not too much because the flexible detachments mean you can take a Librarian or a Chaplain as your HQ and still field all bikes. So a bit of good with the bad this time around. Oh well, I feel like a lot of folks wont be saying no to Sammael being fielded as a successor's MotRW.
Overall, I like it a lot. Good synergy, not just "marines, but they cost more" for once. Can't wait to field my DW.
Does Assault Cannon Razorbacks seem like the best Anti Horde platform for Marines? 12 shots at 6/-1/1 for 100 points. Throw some tacs in there with a meltagun to get out and slag a tank or something big and nasty.
tneva82 wrote: Well. No more tau-eldar or tyranid-something else alliances in matched play it seems. In matched play you need to share at least one faction keyword within all detachments.
I'm sure not many will weep loss of taudar but sucks when part of your army is now invalid without heavy reinforcements. I remember WHF 6th ed when quickly my chaos army lost hefty chunk of it when beastmen went to their own and I would have needed to invest a lot and then daemons likewise.
The good thing for Chaos in 40K is that Daemons and Marines all share Chaos so they can all play together nicely.
Genestealer Cult armies with Guard units are also still allowed, so now I need to build a Cult Baneblade
And Ogryn have 3 wounds. In a world where most of the bigger things got more wounds, or tougher, including Terminators, Ogryn, who are bigger than most Orks mind you, stayed the same.
I'm probably missing something obvious, but it seems to me that units summoned via Daemonic Ritual don't count towards the points limit of matched play? Could someone confirm if I'm reading that right?
tneva82 wrote: Well. No more tau-eldar or tyranid-something else alliances in matched play it seems. In matched play you need to share at least one faction keyword within all detachments.
I'm sure not many will weep loss of taudar but sucks when part of your army is now invalid without heavy reinforcements. I remember WHF 6th ed when quickly my chaos army lost hefty chunk of it when beastmen went to their own and I would have needed to invest a lot and then daemons likewise.
The good thing for Chaos in 40K is that Daemons and Marines all share Chaos so they can all play together nicely.
Genestealer Cult armies with Guard units are also still allowed, so now I need to build a Cult Baneblade
Yeah not HUGE amount where fluffy alliances gets banned from matched play. Closest would be no IG-ork alliance(there's mention of more...practical...commanders hiring ork merceneries. Though albeit that's more of PDF+ork so you could use that)
Still annoying for those who find expensive models become useless without more expensive purchaces.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I gotta say, I am a bit disappointed that Codex Space Marines Chapters don't grant any special rules at this point. Where's my Boltgun rerolls for Crimson Fists?! Oh well, Pedro is going to be fun to run. He is a beast and I can't wait to play him. I would have stuck him with a Hellblaster Squad, but for whatever reason, Primaris Marines can't ride in ANY of the Space Marine vehicles.
If I wasn't sure they would be coming later I would be overjoyed. No more rules driving armies to unfluffy junk like all bike white scars and less incentive to chapter hopping between games.
I played Baby's First Chapter Tactics, so I wasn't jamming a bunch of bikes into my army. I liked my boosted Boltguns and Devastators, but I will live without. I just wish I could work my incoming Primaris Marines in. No transports is dumb as hell.
JakeSiren wrote: I'm probably missing something obvious, but it seems to me that units summoned via Daemonic Ritual don't count towards the points limit of matched play? Could someone confirm if I'm reading that right?
The rules concerning that are in the matched play rules.
The only Primaris Marines i see myself using so far is the Lieutenants. Rerolls ones to wound while hanging out near some Devastators could be really nice.
I am sadded by the lack of chapter tactcis (now I know how every other army feels) but at least most of the Salamander stuff became a rule of He'Stan (if only at 6") now an even better reason (as if you never field him...) to take him!
tneva82 wrote: Okay so vanquisher cannon is more expensive than battlecannon and worse against tanks AND infantry. GG. Wonder what it's supposed to be for? Against another russ BC wins. Against infantry BC wins. Against necron quantum shielding BC wins. I was expecting VC to at least be cheaper then but seems that was in error...
And points are funny in a way. Volcano cannon 0 points. Wonder how they would do if something could upgrade to volcano cannon while shadowstorm would stay as it is. Wonder why they didn't just go for base price+price of weapons for everything uniformedly rather than this way.
And volcano cannon 2d6 damage. Makes that VERY poor against quantum shield On average roll you cause 0 damage! Heh. Still feels odd that best weapons against necron tanks are weak anti-light vehicle guns rather than heavy stuff.
Would a tank be hit D6 times by the battlecannon? Or does it hit D6 targets? Modeling a blast
Lack of army wide chapter tactics and the SW losing their army wide rules of counter attack and acute sense rules (or whatever their 8th edition equivalent would be) is very disheartening.
Having read the rules I am utterly shocked at how bland everything has turned out, which is a sincere shame considering I was filled with such initial hope at the basic rules.
Aside from the usual Chaos being neutered (Khorne notwithstanding as he seems to have once again done well), all the armies seem to be pale imitations of their former selves. Where is the character? Where are the relics? Why has every non-imperial character got a 4+ invulnerable and every imperial character got a 3+ invulnerable save? Why are mortal wounds thrown about like candy, more isn't necessarily better... Where has the choice and hobbying gone? If I wanted a game like this with bog standard cut and paste units I can stick to RTS', they're much cheaper.
I'll certainly give this edition a go and try to avoid too much prejudice (i'll try) but so far i'm sticking with the more cerebral and colourful 7th (i'd go back further if I had the willing participants available) until GW make good on their word and update things a little more. It's a shame that from the lofty heights of 3rd Ed and Andy Chambers, seeing 40k turn into some sort of everything is size A4 from its more flexible and varied days is quite tragic really. I was inspired to play this game by the scope I saw others convert and create armies from the broad books and available options, back in the days when there were sanctioned vehicle and monster design rules and chapter approved came out every month with something new and colourful to try. This new set up is a bit of an anathema to me presently.
Musings on CSM
Spoiler:
- Why are death guard the only legion to get a unique power set up (TS have just had a big release?)
- Why has Magnus (and Ahriman to a degree) been nerfed so hard psychic wise?
- Can I only summon daemons with a ritual now, even in matched play? That might be pretty hard with a Bloodthirster having power 17, even with CP re-rolls (considering you only get 3D6, lmao)...
- Where did the marks go?
- Why have they changed Zombies into some awful toon side-kick?
- Daemon Princes seem to have forgotten where the armory is...
- Did I miss word on all the expansion books previously made? Traitor Legions and the Wulfen expansion for Daemons? Are those books just entirely redundant now, not even a year since their release?
- Happy with Khorne units in general, Abaddon is all good, Nurgle seems a bit odd, Tzeenthc has been oddly nerfed and Slannesh is fair enough. I can live with the change to obliterators in exchange for the increased power of combat overall and my favour for khorne/tzeentch double teams
Semper wrote: Having read the rules I am utterly shocked at how bland everything has turned out, which is a sincere shame considering I was filled with such initial hope at the basic rules.
This index release is the 'Ravening Hordes' release that guarantees all models are playable. It's a lot better than I imagined in fact, so we have very different expectations. I expected four page pamphlets with stat lines and no special rules whatsoever, and a flat statement of 'Wait for the codex'.
Now, we have very playable rules, and we'll wait for the codex books to flesh the individual armies out with fancy stuff.
Lastly, I'm curious what you mean by Chaos getting neutered? Wasn't Chaos largely a trash army in 8th edition, as far as competitive was concerned? Now it seems a lot of their units seem very good.
Semper wrote: Having read the rules I am utterly shocked at how bland everything has turned out, which is a sincere shame considering I was filled with such initial hope at the basic rules.
Aside from the usual Chaos being neutered (Khorne notwithstanding as he seems to have once again done well), all the armies seem to be pale imitations of their former selves. Where is the character? Where are the relics? Why has every non-imperial character got a 4+ invulnerable and every imperial character got a 3+ invulnerable save? Why are mortal wounds thrown about like candy, more isn't necessarily better... Where has the choice and hobbying gone? If I wanted a game like this with bog standard cut and paste units I can stick to RTS', they're much cheaper.
I'll certainly give this edition a go and try to avoid too much prejudice (i'll try) but so far i'm sticking with the more cerebral and colourful 7th (i'd go back further if I had the willing participants available) until GW make good on their word and update things a little more. It's a shame that from the lofty heights of 3rd Ed and Andy Chambers, seeing 40k turn into some sort of everything is size A4 from its more flexible and varied days is quite tragic really. I was inspired to play this game by the scope I saw others convert and create armies from the broad books and available options, back in the days when there were sanctioned vehicle and monster design rules and chapter approved came out every month with something new and colourful to try. This new set up is a bit of an anathema to me presently.
Musings on CSM
Spoiler:
- Why are death guard the only legion to get a unique power set up (TS have just had a big release?)
- Why has Magnus (and Ahriman to a degree) been nerfed so hard psychic wise?
- Can I only summon daemons with a ritual now, even in matched play? That might be pretty hard with a Bloodthirster having power 17, even with CP re-rolls (considering you only get 3D6, lmao)...
- Where did the marks go?
- Why have they changed Zombies into some awful toon side-kick?
- Daemon Princes seem to have forgotten where the armory is...
- Did I miss word on all the expansion books previously made? Traitor Legions and the Wulfen expansion for Daemons? Are those books just entirely redundant now, not even a year since their release?
- Happy with Khorne units in general, Abaddon is all good, Nurgle seems a bit odd, Tzeenthc has been oddly nerfed and Slannesh is fair enough. I can live with the change to obliterators in exchange for the increased power of combat overall and my favour for khorne/tzeentch double teams
Because we only have the mass hold you over indexes and not the codexes. Give it time and it will be fleshed out.
Semper wrote: Having read the rules I am utterly shocked at how bland everything has turned out, which is a sincere shame considering I was filled with such initial hope at the basic rules.
Aside from the usual Chaos being neutered (Khorne notwithstanding as he seems to have once again done well), all the armies seem to be pale imitations of their former selves. Where is the character? Where are the relics? Why has every non-imperial character got a 4+ invulnerable and every imperial character got a 3+ invulnerable save? Why are mortal wounds thrown about like candy, more isn't necessarily better... Where has the choice and hobbying gone? If I wanted a game like this with bog standard cut and paste units I can stick to RTS', they're much cheaper.
I'll certainly give this edition a go and try to avoid too much prejudice (i'll try) but so far i'm sticking with the more cerebral and colourful 7th (i'd go back further if I had the willing participants available) until GW make good on their word and update things a little more. It's a shame that from the lofty heights of 3rd Ed and Andy Chambers, seeing 40k turn into some sort of everything is size A4 from its more flexible and varied days is quite tragic really. I was inspired to play this game by the scope I saw others convert and create armies from the broad books and available options, back in the days when there were sanctioned vehicle and monster design rules and chapter approved came out every month with something new and colourful to try. This new set up is a bit of an anathema to me presently.
Musings on CSM
Spoiler:
- Why are death guard the only legion to get a unique power set up (TS have just had a big release?)
- Why has Magnus (and Ahriman to a degree) been nerfed so hard psychic wise?
- Can I only summon daemons with a ritual now, even in matched play? That might be pretty hard with a Bloodthirster having power 17, even with CP re-rolls (considering you only get 3D6, lmao)...
- Where did the marks go?
- Why have they changed Zombies into some awful toon side-kick?
- Daemon Princes seem to have forgotten where the armory is...
- Did I miss word on all the expansion books previously made? Traitor Legions and the Wulfen expansion for Daemons? Are those books just entirely redundant now, not even a year since their release?
- Happy with Khorne units in general, Abaddon is all good, Nurgle seems a bit odd, Tzeenthc has been oddly nerfed and Slannesh is fair enough. I can live with the change to obliterators in exchange for the increased power of combat overall and my favour for khorne/tzeentch double teams
Because we only have the mass hold you over indexes and not the codexes. Give it time and it will be fleshed out.
Ah, thanks. I had wondered if I had missed some news akin to that. This makes me feel a bit better and optimistic again. I was quite enjoying the new edition to this point but your aanswers (and the other chaps) is good to see.
Thanks man! Now I can't help but think about an army with Magnus flying 32" to the enemy and then having a 50 Chaos Terminators teleport next to him turn one. Magnus destroys one unit by himself, and everything re-rolls 1's to hit and failed 1's on their invulnerable saves.
vim_the_good wrote: So I can now have Conscripts and Special Weapon squads without platoon tax
I am quite liking the IG stuff.
Even better you can make an army of only HWT teams (and a command squad). Add a fortification network or two and the defensive army I've dreamed off will come true.
The Terminator teleport strike rule is insanely good, is it not? I'm so used to the idea of reserves entering the play randomly and then scattering, that the fact that they can enter play at the end of ANY movement phase, and will not scatter, sounds just insane.
So they deploy wherever they want, right when you want. Easiest alpha strike ever. And they don't seem to pay that much for their free ride, considering their stats.
after reading all of it i can honestly say i'm a bit meh... most of the basic units are as you'd expect not much change.
standouts are the previous leaked stuff zerkers etc... normal chaos marines are back to 'meh why bother'
Lack of army wide chapter tactics and the SW losing their army wide rules of counter attack and acute sense rules (or whatever their 8th edition equivalent would be) is very disheartening.
I'm hoping the SW get a CP ability that is an actual Counter Charge. IE opponent charges one of your units, you pay CP and may immediately charge the chargers with one of your units. But that is probably too complicated for this ruleset.
No Havocs, Raptors, Oblits, Warpsmiths, Vindicators, Daemon Engines apart from Defilers.
And no Chaos Terminators.
WAT.
Looks like til we see a proper faction book I'm running my Keywords as Chaos and Nurgle then. The non-inclusion of Chaos Terminators on that list is ridiculous when you consider the Death Guard were one of the most Terminator-heavy legions of the lot....
No Havocs, Raptors, Oblits, Warpsmiths, Vindicators, Daemon Engines apart from Defilers.
And no Chaos Terminators.
WAT.
Looks like til we see a proper faction book I'm running my Keywords as Chaos and Nurgle then. The non-inclusion of Chaos Terminators on that list is ridiculous when you consider the Death Guard were one of the most Terminator-heavy legions of the lot....
Which is why they have a specific incoming unit of terminators.
JakeSiren wrote: I'm probably missing something obvious, but it seems to me that units summoned via Daemonic Ritual don't count towards the points limit of matched play? Could someone confirm if I'm reading that right?
The rules concerning that are in the matched play rules.
Ah, missed that on the first few read throughs. Cheers.
I played WHFB with 6th edition and Ravening Hordes and it was some of the best gaming ever. As was 2nd edition 40k with just the little black book. The army lists in the back of 3rd edition were okay too.
While I'm sure we'll see a Space Marine codex sooner rather than later, I'm thinking 8th with the indices might go down in miniature gaming history as one of the top gaming experiences.
No Havocs, Raptors, Oblits, Warpsmiths, Vindicators, Daemon Engines apart from Defilers.
And no Chaos Terminators.
WAT.
Looks like til we see a proper faction book I'm running my Keywords as Chaos and Nurgle then. The non-inclusion of Chaos Terminators on that list is ridiculous when you consider the Death Guard were one of the most Terminator-heavy legions of the lot....
Which is why they have a specific incoming unit of terminators.
Still bloody frustrating when you consider that the World Eaters can literally field a huge block of just about anything and that Thousand Sons have more choices than them. Meh, Keywords Chaos and Nurgle it is then. I guess I'm going to be end up making a multi-detachment list - one Death Guard, one Chaos and Nurgle using the new Daemons I bought to pad the Troops block out.
So much for one of the greatest weapons in 
