ntdars wrote: What do you guys think will happen to existing WHFB kits? Do you think ones like Lizardmen will be discontinued? I'm trying to stock up on as many as I can for Mordheim kitbashes :/
I couldn't see GW removing so many awesome plastic kits though, especially ones like Dwarves that are still relatively new
Quoting my own post to let everyone know my local GW rep said a single WHFB kit is getting scraped EXCEPT for Island of Blood - which is good news for kit hoarders myself.
Auswin wrote: I'd rather not go into detail because there are people's jobs involved, but the sales staff here in the US has told independent retailers that all current army books would be defunct following Age of Sigmar and that they would not longer be supported in their current state.
I could not find out if this meant model lines would be discontinued too, but my understanding is that Age of Sigmar would be a ruleset intended for skirmish sized games that DOES contain rules for every current army. HOWEVER, it is not GWs intention to support some armies beyond AoS.
I don't know which armies will get new books and which wont, but this store owner was strongly advised not to order replacement stock for Lizardmen, Wood Elves and Tomb Kings -- those were the only ones I was told.
I find that hard to believe since all are well represented on the GW site.
Maybe it means Lizard Men, Wood Elves and Tomb Kings are getting redone?
Lots of the "six factions" rumours put Lizardmen in their own group. Perhaps they are getting fleshed out with more servants of the old ones (giant Mayan Stone golems or something).
If Elves are going into one faction, then many of the kits overlap. Maybe Wood Elves become more crazy and Forest-like.
Tomb Kings will be getting merged with Vampire Counts in a similar fashion so lots of the skeleton infantry will no longer be needed.
Lots of great miniatures on those 3 armies, I really hope they get bundled with other factions than rather being discontinued. Specially lizies, always wanted to flesh out 2000pts of them and add my own flavour with some crocs etc.
Auswin wrote: Lizards especially has never made sense to me. I'd think it would be one of their most-protectable IPs.
GW is supporting the Black Templars Space Marines, and they are, by far, the least-protectable IP in the GW stable.
If GW can continue to keep the BT around for 40k, they can keep LMs for WFB.
Does GW really have to do much for BT? They don't have a codex and all they really got are a few direct-only IC's. Quite different from taking up shelf space with big kits.
Auswin wrote: Lizards especially has never made sense to me. I'd think it would be one of their most-protectable IPs. This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if it's because we'll see an aesthetic shift (as has been rumored before). All three armies I noted would likely need the most work to pull them into a more modern setting than other forces.
They probably are one of their most protectible IP's, but they got spanked pretty hard over the Chapterhouse stuff so I can see them taking the ball and going home.
That said, whilst they aren't a common trop, they are still just Aztec Lizards, which has been done before.
The odd thing is that if WFB follows the 40k model, then I would expect Tomb Kings to live on. After all, the two Undead factions operate off similar rules and units, though very few units are actually identical; they could easily make three books out of that. One with basic undead, necromancers/liche priests, and stuff like bone giants and suchlike... Then one book for Vampire gothic horror and one for Egyptian horror. Both combined and not. It may sound flimsy, but then they split four units off to create the MT codex...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, Games Workshop got themselves a Twitter account, and immediately starting trolling. Glorious.
I can't actually decide if that's a real GW account or not... I'm leaning towards not... For one thing, would GW really have decided @voxCaster was too toxic to resurrect?
And how embarassing is that? Going for @Games_Workshop1. - I mean, come on?
And... This seems crazy too. https://twitter.com/Games_Workshop1/status/609906461053972480 - would a company like GW really admit that?
It's not verified... (Mind you @voxcaster wasn't either)
For anyone who has forgotten. GW ragequit social media a few years ago after the Spots The Space Marine debacle.
I thought if they were to start a Twitter account they would have spent a week previewing the different aspects of it on What's New Today building up to a "How to tweet" guide from Duncan Rhodes. :-p
Auswin wrote: I'd rather not go into detail because there are people's jobs involved, but the sales staff here in the US has told independent retailers that all current army books would be defunct following Age of Sigmar and that they would not longer be supported in their current state.
I could not find out if this meant model lines would be discontinued too, but my understanding is that Age of Sigmar would be a ruleset intended for skirmish sized games that DOES contain rules for every current army. HOWEVER, it is not GWs intention to support some armies beyond AoS.
I don't know which armies will get new books and which wont, but this store owner was strongly advised not to order replacement stock for Lizardmen, Wood Elves and Tomb Kings -- those were the only ones I was told.
Interesting. I'll have to ask about this tomorrow. Books going away was a couple of weeks ago. But nothing said about Wood Elves, TK, or Lizards. Then again, I'm not re-ordering any WFB until i see what's going on, and have pretty much no reason to as no one is buying any kits until they see what's going on. Another two weeks until they can supposedly tell us.
Bottle wrote: I thought if they were to start a Twitter account they would have spent a week previewing the different aspects of it on What's New Today building up to a "How to tweet" guide from Duncan Rhodes. :-p
Auswin wrote: I'd rather not go into detail because there are people's jobs involved, but the sales staff here in the US has told independent retailers that all current army books would be defunct following Age of Sigmar and that they would not longer be supported in their current state.
I could not find out if this meant model lines would be discontinued too, but my understanding is that Age of Sigmar would be a ruleset intended for skirmish sized games that DOES contain rules for every current army. HOWEVER, it is not GWs intention to support some armies beyond AoS.
I don't know which armies will get new books and which wont, but this store owner was strongly advised not to order replacement stock for Lizardmen, Wood Elves and Tomb Kings -- those were the only ones I was told.
Interesting. I'll have to ask about this tomorrow. Books going away was a couple of weeks ago. But nothing said about Wood Elves, TK, or Lizards. Then again, I'm not re-ordering any WFB until i see what's going on, and have pretty much no reason to as no one is buying any kits until they see what's going on. Another two weeks until they can supposedly tell us.
I could see Wood Elves getting a new Glade Guard and Glade Rider kit.
It would actually make a lot of sense considering how crummy the army was.
Then you called my contention that people need to be invested in the background to justify the investment of time and resources ridiculous and poof! your whole stance looks on decidedly more shaky ground.
It's blatantly not a ridiculous thing to say, let alone flat out ridiculous.
But I do despair slightly that more than one person seems to have taken my reference to "nobody" as literally nobody ever. That'll teach me to talk like a normal person in the domain of the po-faced and the literal that is the internet.
No, that premise is not what i called ridiculous. I called your argument, as presented, in point of fact, ridiculous.
Investment in the lore / background / cannon is one of, but not the only, reason people support the game / buy the models.
A literal reading of your post, quite literally, suggested otherwise. How is anyone reading your words supposed to know that when you say "let's face it, nobody [buys or paints GW figs] for any reason other than the background" that you actually mean "most", "lots", "tons", "bazillions", "oodles", or any other synonymous word ? Nobody means literally "not anyone", or in vernacular "no one of any importance." (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nobody?s=t)
The first is untrue, the second is ridiculous to think that if someone buys a GW model to paint or play with and not due to the background, that their purchase or import as a customer is somehow less important than one who does so because of the background. It's ridiculous because it's unsupportable or sustainable as an argument, being wholly comprised of opinion.
Dakka is a place rife with hyperbole and unsupported stance / argument, so I made my statement in support of the other poster that said you were making sweeping generalizations, which you claimed you didn't and indicated that you were open to refutation. I did just that. If you meant "I think most people" instead of "Not anyone or at least not anyone of any importance" then you should have used a different series of words or words. I can only interpret what you mean by writing, so if you intend a different meaning, use the right word. You can't expect people to infer whatever common argot you've attached to a word that isn't actually what the word means. And then when someone calls you out on that meaning, get defensive on top !
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Back on topic: This in from BOLS... allegedly someone's rep giving them a watered down press release junket on AoS : Nothing too earth shattering, but it appeasr to be the first hint of official "stance" to retailers on the topic, probably trying to drum up pre-orders would be my guess.
I receieved the same info from my source that he will have all the info he could want from his GW rep on the 29th. So I'm inclined to believe at least part of the BoLS posting. Plus it agrees with what I posted weeks ago that every model will still be valid (although personal opinion I expect that many special character models will become "generic captain #42" now.
I am not usre, but I think I read the "every model will still be valid" sentence everytime when warhammer makes a change. And I have models and armys from a long time ago which are now just proxys.
I don't believe that it will be different with AoS. Everything is valid, as long as your fine with your dwarf warriors beeing played as human sword fighters.
Compel wrote: I can't actually decide if that's a real GW account or not... I'm leaning towards not... For one thing, would GW really have decided @voxCaster was too toxic to resurrect?
And how embarassing is that? Going for @Games_Workshop1. - I mean, come on?
And... This seems crazy too. https://twitter.com/Games_Workshop1/status/609906461053972480 - would a company like GW really admit that?
It's not verified... (Mind you @voxcaster wasn't either)
For anyone who has forgotten. GW ragequit social media a few years ago after the Spots The Space Marine debacle.
Yup, parody account. They've just updated their description.
"Follow for all your latest Warhammer Fantasy, Warhammer 40,000 & The Hobbit needs! Regular hobby news and updates. Unofficial and hobbyist led."
Azreal13 wrote: The same applies for an existing, widely played game as it does for an obscure one or even a home brew ruleset. If it isn't played in the circles you inhabit, and you need to get it off the ground first.
The conversation went "there's plenty of other games" "yeah, well, name me some!" "Here's a long list of other games" "yeah, well nobody plays those!"
Nobody plays anything until somebody does, it doesn't invalidate their existence.
Though it is nice when a large group goes over, all at once. (Which is how Kings of War took over the local group... and having the rules available for free really did not hurt!)
The sad thing - even with Fantasy dropping like a lead balloon, I suspect that its sales are still enough to eclipse Kings of War.
TheAuldGrump is right. There is a critical mass moment where a game goes from unplayed, to having a community.
I have been trying for months to get KoW going in upstate NY, and all of the sudden, after being a game played by my wife and I, and one friend... I had a wave of players who suddenly acted as if a lightbulb went off.
Most asked, several times, if they could use their WHFB armies, not believing that an official system would actively encourage using whatever models they wanted, even at the tournament level.
Now I am suddenly organizing WHFB "Refugee" Demo Nights, and a tournament.
So yeah... two players can become twenty with shockingly little dilligence and passion on one player's part.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: TheAuldGrump is right. There is a critical mass moment where a game goes from unplayed, to having a community.
I have been trying for months to get KoW going in upstate NY, and all of the sudden, after being a game played by my wife and I, and one friend... I had a wave of players who suddenly acted as if a lightbulb went off.
Most asked, several times, if they could use their WHFB armies, not believing that an official system would actively encourage using whatever models they wanted, even at the tournament level.
Now I am suddenly organizing WHFB "Refugee" Demo Nights, and a tournament.
So yeah... two players can become twenty with shockingly little dilligence and passion on one player's part.
Yep - I had been pushing KoW since one of the early Betas - but it wasn't until WHFB stumbled that KoW took off....
And now Mantic is putting up official versions of the Warhammer armies on their site.... Empire, Skaven, and Beastmen so far. (Though the KoW Beastmen are aligned with Nature, not the Abyss... I will admit, I am very happy about that change!)
It is taking a while, but folks have started switching over their GW minis to other companies - since Mantic really does not care what miniatures you use when playing. (That said, my dwarf army is mostly Mantic....)
I wonder if GW is going to be silly enough to try to sue them.... (The fact that it is not illegal is not something that GW always takes into account....)
Grot 6 wrote: Of all of the "News and Rumors" ever read, THIS thread by far is the most disturbing one I've ever read on Dakka.
I look at it ever now and then, but at this point.... damn.
Why would anyone even want to play WHF, at this point? Much less buy into this shlock?
At this point in time, WHF is pretty much dead on arrival.
Pretty blind of you to write-off the new edition, when very few facts have been released about it.
Why would anyone want to play? I dunno... because they like the rules? The setting? Though it's hard to know yet if AoS is 'likable' or not because mostly what we have are rumors.
But the sky is not yet falling. We've only heard -rumors- that the sky is falling.
I lol'd when I read the part about GW doing cons and trade shows.
Does that make me a bad person? The idea that the great and mighty GW might deign to soil themselves by giving demos to the common player like some kickstarter?
I mean, it might actually be a good idea -- I suspect a lot of people got into the game because a local employee at a GW store gave a good demo. It just seems like the kind of community relations GW is so bad at, now, and doesn't even seem to care about.
ComTrav wrote: I lol'd when I read the part about GW doing cons and trade shows.
Does that make me a bad person? The idea that the great and mighty GW might deign to soil themselves by giving demos to the common player like some kickstarter?
I mean, it might actually be a good idea -- I suspect a lot of people got into the game because a local employee at a GW store gave a good demo. It just seems like the kind of community relations GW is so bad at, now, and doesn't even seem to care about.
TheAuldGrump wrote: Well, rumors and looking at the gak that GW has been releasing for rules over the last several years.
Just because it is rumor does not mean that it is uninformed rumor.
The Auld Grump - after all, Dread Fleet was so very good, right?
Still, it is -rumor-, no matter how you try to dress it up.
If someone chooses to base their opinion on rumor ('informed' or not), that's their right, of course. But completely writing off the game before seeing the -non- rumored material and facts is just plain ignorant.
If WHFB is as 'bad' as people claim it was, is it really out of the realm of possibility for the new product to offer -some- sort of improvement over the old? Maybe it won't.... Maybe it will. But the possibility certainly exists.
Not sure what the point is of your reference to Dread Fleet - apples and oranges. AoS obviously =/= Dread Fleet, other than it comes from the same company.
I understand pessimism. I understand not giving GW the benefit of the doubt. But to summarily judge the product before it's even been -seen- is willfully ignorant.
TheAuldGrump wrote: Well, rumors and looking at the gak that GW has been releasing for rules over the last several years.
Just because it is rumor does not mean that it is uninformed rumor.
The Auld Grump - after all, Dread Fleet was so very good, right?
Still, it is -rumor-, no matter how you try to dress it up.
If someone chooses to base their opinion on rumor ('informed' or not), that's their right, of course. But completely writing off the game before seeing the -non- rumored material and facts is just plain ignorant.
If WHFB is as 'bad' as people claim it was, is it really out of the realm of possibility for the new product to offer -some- sort of improvement over the old? Maybe it won't.... Maybe it will. But the possibility certainly exists.
Not sure what the point is of your reference to Dread Fleet - apples and oranges. AoS obviously =/= Dread Fleet, other than it comes from the same company.
I understand pessimism. I understand not giving GW the benefit of the doubt. But to summarily judge the product before it's even been -seen- is willfully ignorant.
But many of us already have seen the thing that we're basing our judgement on; the Warhammer World is gone, dead, caput, finito. They can drape the bloody rags of its skin over whatever new drek they've written up under the lash of the IP lawyers, but the only reason this new game isn't actually a new game is GW don't have the sack or imagination to just kill WHFB properly and do something genuinely new.
It's not really ignorant when people have years worth of facts and observations to back up their opinions, if you ask me. And from what one can tell GW has not changed its attitude significantly, they don't seem to have any more desire to put out a quality product than they did before, if anything still insisting that what they're putting out is absolutely the best even when no one is buying it, and they're relying on the exact same team of "talent" that killed WHF dead with 8th and turned 40k into an unplayable mess.
What reason do you have to be optimistic about this new product? Why should we believe this is going to be an improvement when GW has been doing everything it can to make things worse, throwing any semblance of structure or balance completely out the window? What have you got to go on other than hopes and prayers at this point? For all we know this is GW making change for the sake of change, just barely realizing that there was a problem with one of their flagship games that needed to be fixed but not having any clue what that problem was or what needed to be done to correct it, because they absolutely refuse to do any research whatsoever or engage with the customer base that have all but given up on them.
Is it possible that Age of Sigmar might not only be good, but might be exactly what everyone's been waiting for? Yeah, it could be, but I think the smart thing to do at this point is to assume the worst and wait to be proven wrong, because believing at this point that AoS is going to be a hit flies in the face of all logic. Some people might very well change their minds once they actually see the new game, but I don't think it's wrong to assume, based on what's been rumored, that they're going to be disappointed. Personally I'm still interested in seeing what it is, but I'm not kidding myself, either.
TheAuldGrump wrote: Well, rumors and looking at the gak that GW has been releasing for rules over the last several years.
Just because it is rumor does not mean that it is uninformed rumor.
The Auld Grump - after all, Dread Fleet was so very good, right?
Still, it is -rumor-, no matter how you try to dress it up.
If someone chooses to base their opinion on rumor ('informed' or not), that's their right, of course. But completely writing off the game before seeing the -non- rumored material and facts is just plain ignorant.
If WHFB is as 'bad' as people claim it was, is it really out of the realm of possibility for the new product to offer -some- sort of improvement over the old? Maybe it won't.... Maybe it will. But the possibility certainly exists.
Not sure what the point is of your reference to Dread Fleet - apples and oranges. AoS obviously =/= Dread Fleet, other than it comes from the same company.
I understand pessimism. I understand not giving GW the benefit of the doubt. But to summarily judge the product before it's even been -seen- is willfully ignorant.
No.
Usually, when you see a new edition of a game, you get a sense of excitement. WANT, Want to need. whatever you want to call it. There is nothing in the news for this edition of the game to make me want to go run out and buy three copies, and a fourth to rip apart and add to my army and my pals armies.
You call it willfully ignorant? on what grounds, aside from your opinion?
I read this rumor, it goes nothing from bad to worse, and your calling me ignorant? Read what I wrote, next time, instead of just shooting from the hip.
Want to have some fun?
Point me in the right direction of a semblance of "Good news" in this rumor of the new edition of this .... new car smell?
I wrote, and again, that I read through this "New edition news" and I'm not excited for a new game, I'm dreading it.
Its not what I signed up for, and its sure not going to be worth the 80- 120 $$$ price tag.
Pretty blind of you to write-off the new edition, when very few facts have been released about it.
Why would anyone want to play? I dunno... because they like the rules? The setting? Though it's hard to know yet if AoS is 'likable' or not because mostly what we have are rumors.
But the sky is not yet falling. We've only heard -rumors- that the sky is falling.
This is the same company that after 15+ years managed to kill stone cold dead my enthusiasm for 40k right?
Same writers even?
Why would anyone assume that they'll have a sudden attack of competence this time?
I actually find the rules and such for 40k quite good for the most part. And the product they are producing is excellent. The issue for most people is, oddly, the release schedule. The sheer mass of items being released, let alone rules, is the main issue with 40k. Not the rules or models themselves.
At least that's the feeling from most people that I talk to.
Hulksmash wrote: I actually find the rules and such for 40k quite good for the most part. And the product they are producing is excellent. The issue for most people is, oddly, the release schedule. The sheer mass of items being released, let alone rules, is the main issue with 40k. Not the rules or models themselves.
At least that's the feeling from most people that I talk to.
My gaming group doesn't have any major issues with GW, were playing and very much enjoying 7th and find the rules to be a big improvement on 6th. Easier when you only play against people you know (who don't enjoy cheese) or in tournaments of course, since the "pick-up game" doesn't exist here (or really anywhere outside the U.S. i reckon). The release pace is pretty great compared to the snails pace they were going at before, with a few exceptions (Knights).
Anyway, really looking forward to 9th, and I'm very hopeful that I'll finally be able to get into Fantasy again without having to assemble and paint hundreds of generic troop guys...
I think I am at ease at last with Warhammer going skirmish.
The Old World is gone, I will always remember it and still write my FF set in it, but I can move on from it. I am willing to play the new warhammer and 8th will still be strong at my club. AoS is going to be a new game that I am going to go into for my skirmish battles. The rest of my group have access to KoW and with the new Not-Warhammer army lists available at Mantic we'll make the transistion for larger scaled battles there. In fact I think it will be a lot of fun running a smaller AoS game earlier in the day and then use that as a set up for the larger battle for the KOW battles.
So with Age of Sigmar, the Old World is gone, a land that I have been following for over 12 years. But I gained all new ones in exchange. Worlds that I have a chance to explore, play in and eventually conqueror... if only on the table top.
TheAuldGrump wrote: Well, rumors and looking at the gak that GW has been releasing for rules over the last several years.
Just because it is rumor does not mean that it is uninformed rumor.
The Auld Grump - after all, Dread Fleet was so very good, right?
Still, it is -rumor-, no matter how you try to dress it up.
If someone chooses to base their opinion on rumor ('informed' or not), that's their right, of course. But completely writing off the game before seeing the -non- rumored material and facts is just plain ignorant.
If WHFB is as 'bad' as people claim it was, is it really out of the realm of possibility for the new product to offer -some- sort of improvement over the old? Maybe it won't.... Maybe it will. But the possibility certainly exists.
Not sure what the point is of your reference to Dread Fleet - apples and oranges. AoS obviously =/= Dread Fleet, other than it comes from the same company.
I understand pessimism. I understand not giving GW the benefit of the doubt. But to summarily judge the product before it's even been -seen- is willfully ignorant.
No.
Usually, when you see a new edition of a game, you get a sense of excitement. WANT, Want to need. whatever you want to call it. There is nothing in the news for this edition of the game to make me want to go run out and buy three copies, and a fourth to rip apart and add to my army and my pals armies.
You call it willfully ignorant? on what grounds, aside from your opinion?
I read this rumor, it goes nothing from bad to worse, and your calling me ignorant? Read what I wrote, next time, instead of just shooting from the hip.
Want to have some fun?
Point me in the right direction of a semblance of "Good news" in this rumor of the new edition of this .... new car smell?
I wrote, and again, that I read through this "New edition news" and I'm not excited for a new game, I'm dreading it.
Its not what I signed up for, and its sure not going to be worth the 80- 120 $$$ price tag.
Their 'wall of silence' approach to advertising seems to be frightening more people off rather than exciting them. There were rumours way back that the end of times would result in a total redesign of the game rendering a lot of models obsolete. No wonder so many people have stopped playing and traders like Mikhalia stop stocking. GW really need to be open an communicate things to reassure their customer base, panicking and scaring them off product for months because they refuse to even acknowledge a replacement product that has clearly been coming for nearly a year is stupid.
mikhaila wrote: So this is from GW as of a minute ago. I will continue to hammer my sales rep about 4 times a week, and he's promised to call me whenever new info pops up.
-Ages of Sigmar is a new system, not necessarily WFB 8.5 or 9.0
-Story advances after the events in Endtimes.
-All current models will be usable. But it's a new system, so how good/bad something was in 8th isn't an indication of how it will perform in AoS.
-Age of Sigmar is not a boardgame, is not an intro game to something larger. It's the main event.
I know this was a few pages back, but just catching up. Specifically regarding the "All current models will be usable", this could mean several different things, but as it's from the perspective of a GW rep to a store owner, it could mean that the models currently stocked by FLGS will be usable, NOT all models will be usable. For example the Bone Giant has been direct only for years, it could be cut from the new edition with the above quote still being 100% correct.
My big fear is that what happens with 40K normally happens with Fantasy and vice versa. Seems they're taking this approach a bit literally now. I'm envisaging lots of USRs with dumb names, multiple mini-army books, and stupidly expensive full size army books which are replaced every 12 months.
It will be somewhat encouraging to see GW actually paying attention to things like "Cost Barriers to Entry" and other sales data.
Smaller armies/skirmish sized games are something they consciously moved away from - even though many (most?) people buy multiple armies when they play such systems?
But as you note - this is GW, even if this is a smaller scale skirmish sized ruleset, they're figure out some other way to up the prices.
Maybe the all the models will just get an awful increase?
If Age of Sigmar is a skirmish system, then I'm seeing two different elements at work.
First, is Age of Sigmar, which is most definitely not a replacement for Warhammer Fantasy Battle.
Second is the sudden pulling of army books, which would suggest that those books are shortly going to be replaced in some fashion. A skirmish system would not replace those books.
Alpharius wrote: It will be somewhat encouraging to see GW actually paying attention to things like "Cost Barriers to Entry" and other sales data.
Smaller armies/skirmish sized games are something they consciously moved away from - even though many (most?) people buy multiple armies when they play such systems?
But as you note - this is GW, even if this is a smaller scale skirmish sized ruleset, they're figure out some other way to up the prices.
Maybe the all the models will just get an awful increase?
Still, I'll remain cautiously optimistic here!
As much as I am alright with the new system coming out. I can't help but think of this in regards to how GW views it's data collection.
Flashman wrote: My big fear is that what happens with 40K normally happens with Fantasy and vice versa. Seems they're taking this approach a bit literally now. I'm envisaging lots of USRs with dumb names, multiple mini-army books, and stupidly expensive full size army books which are replaced every 12 months.
Yay.
Yeah I believe that the spam of lots of books will only cause more confusion and frustration. May seem like its not much of a problem but when others are giving away rules for free
So, they had LOTR exclusively in a fantasy setting.
Recognizable IP, solid game, and entirely new model range. It lasted, what, three years total? Then hobbit flopped. Now try the same thing with what amounts to a fresh IP and world, with the current rules guys (the same guys who have had over ten years to figure out how Sisters of Twilight are supposed to work, but haven't; who cannot manage one FAQ every six months; who still can't establish what "unmodified leadership" really is), and the GW Marketing Team (the guys who decided the way to deal with the internet was to pretend it didn't exist; who have been recycling the same artwork for going on three decades; who honestly believed that charging the same for a tablet rulebook as the hard cover would not result in rampant piracy). Yeah, not a chance this goes well.
There is more to it than simple IP stuff, but I think Fantasy has suffered from a number of issues in the last few years, most of which are GW's own fault. As others pointed out, they let other companies chip away at the market share unchallenged and (worse) did an inferior job at, well really everything other than _maybe_ miniature production. They spent tons of time defending their IP only to have Chapterhouse happen, which was an enormous waste of money and actually damaged their ability to defend their own holdings. They blew tons of money to make one of the worst web sites imaginable. The worst thing to me is that they largely neglected Fantasy for a long time, mostly because from their standpoint why bother developing a complex line when you can just toss a different set of shoulder sprues on the same marine models and call it another chapter? That LOTR shelf space and design time had to come from somewhere (though I did not mind being deprived of the comedy rules design stylings of Mr Ward....), further cannibalizing the line. The specialist games that served as good gateways into Fantasy all disappeared (instead, when 40k peeps got Space Hulk to reel people in, we got.... Dreadfleet?).
They got complacent and lazy. Then as they bleed money, they got desperate and short sighted. That's why they sold their balls to New Line for the lopsided Hobbit license agreement. They were hoping for another quick buck like the LOTR bubble gave them before they flushed all of that away. They existed so long without any competition that they essentially forgot how to make a good product, which is what happens when a niche game lets the bean counters and marketing people take over. At this point, I think Kirby and Jervis are just looking to ride the dead horse carcass long enough to cash out their options.
So, one of my spies returned, wounded unto death and managed to give me a bit of info on the Great Enemies battleplan.
He was delerious and really wanted a cookie before he died, so take this with a grain of salt.
-The new system will have both Skirmish and large battle with ranked troops versions.
-Skirmish can use round or square. Large version is square.
-The round 32mm bases in the space marine boxes were originally made for WH:AoS, but the 40k studio guys liked the look and they fit space marines better.
-AOS box will have both round and square bases in the box.
I don't know if I like the sound of the "square or round bases" as far as separating the skirmish from the large scale. It feels like the same problem with demons in that you have to commit one way or the other (40k or WHFB), but with this both bases are effectively within the same game realm (as opposed to two different ones).
I guess they might be trying to maintain the large scale game, but it feels like everyone will just go to skirmish size and large scale will be no more the popular.
I suppose if they are sticking with 25mm rounds, any 25mm square based models could be done by putting the model on a 25mm round and then magnetizing into a 25mm square base or movement tray. 20mm squares could be mounted on the model then magnetized to a round.
No clue what to do with cavalry or monsters with that though.
-Skirmish can use round or square. Large version is square.
-The round 32mm bases in the space marine boxes were originally made for WH:AoS, but the 40k studio guys liked the look and they fit space marines better.
-AOS box will have both round and square bases in the box.
Thanks for the news!
I like the sound that my squared bases fits both, I will be keeping mine square. The extra 32mm round ones will also be nice for my 40k stuff.
So the round base debacle makes it feel like GW just wanted to stir up conversation. If the large scale is Square only, then who is gonna put there models on rounds for the skirmish when clearly they get bang for the buck by putting them on squares and using them for both formats... so frustrating. It would have been nice though if it was an all in on rounds. I would like to try 40k sometime and have a Fantasy deamons army.
But if the line in Mikhalia's post about the 32mm being designed for Age of Sigmeh is true, then we can toss out all of our notions of ranking up round based modela; they'll be wildly out of size, base wise, for any existing unit.
Not sure how Elven infantry would look on a base that big. I bet that it will make Black Orcs, Gors and Warriors of Chaos look mean though.
Alpharius wrote: It will be somewhat encouraging to see GW actually paying attention to things like "Cost Barriers to Entry" and other sales data.
GW's version of paying attention to that (at least judging from 40k) is to come out with $25-30 single pose plastic kits with little to no extras (you get a hat!). In their mind, lowering the model count necessary is just the first step to raising the price per fig then.. profit? I don't think we'll return to the days of making a mordheim warband from a single plastic kit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
mikhaila wrote: Or play the skirmish version with square bases. They said that was an option.
It will be interesting to see how much compatibility there is between the rules (beyond the basic mechanics that obviously would likely stay the same like hit/wound/save).
Im going to go all in on this skirmish game though, and hope for the best. As much is I like rank and file, its sooo painstaking to get units to line up. I made some custom Vampire counts Vargheists using savage orc bodies, really great models, dont rank up at all =/ Same problem with my Plague Drones.
mikhaila wrote: -The new system will have both Skirmish and large battle with ranked troops versions.
-Skirmish can use round or square. Large version is square.
-The round 32mm bases in the space marine boxes were originally made for WH:AoS, but the 40k studio guys liked the look and they fit space marines better.
-AOS box will have both round and square bases in the box.
No, no, no. No square bases, no rank and file, no two game systems.
-------------------------
I had the chance to look thoroughly through the proper Age of Sigmar rulebook (the one that consists of three books) yesterday evening. Spent my time with the three books and ignored the novel in favour of the real interesting things. So I cannot fill in the blanks there. But maybe I have the opportunity to look at the rulebook and novel again and hopefully the age of sigmar box, too. But now I have a way clearer picture what’s coming and I’d like to share with you because I am very (!!!) excited, but I cannot provide any photos for obvious reasons. So if you don’t believe me, I don’t blame you. But please don’t attack me personally.
- Title of the rulebook is: Age of Sigmar: a Warhammer strategy game
- first the basics (most of which are already known):
- full fledged rule system; no skirmish game - meaning not restricted to low miniature count: 50 models on average, way lower possible, in general you use units but you can field an army consisting of only single models
- everything is on round or oval bases (there paragraph that explicitly allows legacy and diorama bases, though);
- 2 books: the rules (rules and scenarios) and compendium (pictures, unit cards and fluff)
- there are unit cards for every (as far as I can see) old unit in the second book, including warhammer forge models and most or all special characters. Some units get the full treatment with a small fluff text, pictures of the actual miniatures and rules, some units get only rules with nothing more.
- all new rules with complete new mechanics: think not of 40k 2nd -> 3rd but Warhammer 8th -> Bloodbowl, very compact and fast paced, huge emphasis on individual champions, magic and gods (don’t know how powerful, but these have the most rule pages)
- no photos (and no artworks except some very generic drawings) of new miniatures except a couple chaos and human miniatures that are very likely from the Age of Sigmar box.
- all the races are in, but some are clearly favored. There are few pictures of beastmen and lizardmen for example and some units like steamtanks, gunpowder units (Skaven and new-dwarfs use them still), etc. can only be fielded as mercenaries from a different world or summoned units (in case of most special characters, there is even a picture of a Teclis painted in ghost colors)
- the tech level is between and ancient roman empire and early medieval times, lots of nomadic barbarian tribes, etc. But judging by to the age of sigmar miniatures the armour design draws only a little bit from history and is has a very stylized high-fantasy design instead
- there are lots of different people, races, gods and lots of different alliances. The world is a lot more open minded than the old one, Empire-Orc Alliance would be unthinkable, but a human-waaghkin force is nothing unusual in this setting
Army building
- you pick one or more gods that determine the theurgic or magic schools (don’t know what the difference is, sorry) you can use and how your champions get power-ups during the game. You can take several gods, but they have to be from the same pantheon - so no nurgle-sigmar armies, but Nagash-Morr is possible.Then you choose whichever unit you want - from every race. There is no limit as far as I can tell.
- The only mechanic that I have spotted that limits the useful choices somehow is that most spells and special rules only affect units with certain traits, the powers of Grimgor (magic and gods are always connected, each lore has a patron god that grants the power) affects only mortals or enemy units in the proximity of mortals.
- There are only rules for one pantheon in the rule book, all the other gods and pantheons are only mentioned in the fluff
- Guardians of Regalia, a conglomerate native spirits and gods and lately some new gods, the incarnates Grimgor, Gelt and Nagash, there are thousand of gods and their relevance changes over time and in different regions, but there are seven big gods that have seven schools of magic associated with them and have rules in the book
- Geshemet or Gesheket or something like this (male and female, fertility, natural disaster) is the head of the pantheon, the other six gods are dual pair of good and evil:
two death gods: Nagahs and Morr
two smith and labour gods: Hashut and Gelt
two war gods: Grimgor and Myrmidia
- five other pantheon get a page of fluff each, and additional minor pantheons/deities are mentioned in the fluff. The big five are Chaos, Sigmar, Cuth’adai (elven gods), Exoatl (old ones) and the triumvi-rats (Horned Rat + 2 more)
- all characters can earn favor of their gods and get promoted just like the chaos champions until they reach apotheosis, this is also a huge mechanic in the game + you can field gods or at least their avatars, but only three incarnates have rules in the book
Rules
- there is only one ruleset (don’t know what is in the AoS box, but in the book there is no distinction between skirmish mode and battle mode or something like this)
- rules have nothing to do with the old warhammer rules,
- profile is: Melee, Range, Might, Armour, Initiative, Resolve, Wounds, values from 1-6, lower is better
- simple turn sequence: initiative -> player 1 unit 1 moves, shoots, casts -> p1 unit 2 moves, shoots, casts -> ... -> player 2 moves, shoots, casts -> melee
- players roll always against each other, for example Melee vs Initiative and Range vs Initiative, Might vs Armour
- units regenerate all lost wounds at the end of the phase
- both sides in a melee fight simultaneously, winner can roll to fight instantaneously another round until one side is extinct or one side chooses to break from the combat
- there is no moral system or combat resolution whatsoever, but unit can be bounced back
- units use a 1” 40k formation without any facing
- magic spells are all one-use only, when you use it, you have to discard the card
- you can collect ascension points throughout the game and spend the point to buff your champions, mechanic depends on your god(s)
- unit costs points as before, you are not allowed to field multiple units of the same kind unless the former unit have full strength - there are all kinds of unit sizes from 1-3 to 3-15 (that’s the highest I have seen), but you can field lots of different 1-man units
- you don’t buy champions, a set number of models are automatically upgraded to champions, but you cannot exceed the limit
- there are rules for different weapons, magic items, war engines, monsters, special rules, etc and a large section for scenarios and terrain, larger than the actual rules
Setting
game is set on world Regalia that is connected with other young realms through portals of the old ones. Young realms are realms that were populated by the old creators and were guided on similar historical paths. They were untouched by chaos but this has changed since the arrival of sigmar (as a new faith) and archaon (as an actual emissary in flesh and blood)
there is no explanation (or just a brief one so that I have missed it) how this all came to be, just a description of the history of Regalia (and to a lesser extent some neighbouring realms)
On Regalia is dominated by hundreds of human kingdoms. Fast travel is possible through a number of stone circles that allows mages to open portal from one to another and a system of streams and seas under the earth that can be navigated by ship. There were a long period of peace curated by the Exoatl (Old Ones) that watched over the world from the North and Southpole. But then suddenly new faiths arrived, lots of human tribes started to pray to Sigmar and to conquer their neighbouring kingdoms. These lands are each independent, but are united in their faith to Sigmar. The history ends with the conquering of the Worlds Edge mountains and the crowning of the first emperor. At the same time, the first agents of Chaos arrived and began to corrupt the native people. A part of the Waaghkins rebelled against the old ones in favour of new gods, the Skaven arrived the first time, and in the south and east a death cult began to spread. The world is in turmoil. There are lots of unfinished story hooks so I think the story will be continued, but that might be wishful thinking.
humans are the majority in this world and they have kingdom and tribes everywhere, most of the known earth-inspired regions like cathay are there, but they are not described as fully flegded feudal nations but constantly changing petty empires and nomadic people ruled by warlords and champions of the gods. there are two factions of humans, the worshippers of sigmar and the polytheistic rest, both are not monocultural, but have different skin colors and cultures. Women fight beside men!
The dominion of sigmar is special, because they are the only ones that are reluctant to allow any other race than humans. They have only one god and their goal is to destroy all other gods and conquer their domains - for the greater good of the world of course. This has nothing in common with the Empire of the old world, except the heraldry, griffons are still en vogue. All tribes and city states and kingdoms are independent, the only common ground is their faith, the emperor is only a warlord with the purpose to expands the dominion towards the east. There a still knightly orders, zealots, witchhunters - so they retain some of their medieval flair but there are no state troops. There is no gunpowder, except from some dwarven imports, but they are known for using large warwaggons on their trek to the east. Kislec, Estalia, Araby, city states of Bretonnia, Norse and tribes of the Reiklands are part of the dominion. There are also some enclaves scattered across the world that are connected with magic portals
The Skaven arrived on their own on Regalia and are basically the same. Haven’t spent much time on them. They have now three gods called the triumvi-rat …..
Dawikorr (dwarfs) and Inneadim (elfs) have their own realms that are connected with Regalia. The Inneadim have outposts in America.
Dawikorr are only a legend on Regalia and nobody has seen them, but there are legends that they aid whorshippers of Sigmar in peril. They deliver the dominions of Sigmar with artifacts. They live underneath the world Karak Korr and guard the Soul Mill. Dawikorr have rules, so they can be fielded.
The Soul Mill is a huge machinery that allows minor deities to feed on the power of dead spirits or let them reincarnate or serve them as guardian hosts. It was built by the surviving dwarves of the old world on command of the Incarnates on a older machinery of the old ones. The dwarfs guard the soul mill and are aligned with Sigmar after the shattering of the Incarnates, but are under siege of the skaven that have found their way on this world and managed to steal two mighty souls that formed their new gods.
Inneadim whorship the dreamers, gods that have dreamt themselves, basically the elven gods. They live on their own world and protect the dreamchild. Under Araloth they founded enclaves on Regalia in search for the archelves, lost gods of their pantheon. They are a darker take on the elves, nightmare are as much part of their culture then dreams. They use necromancy and the death god Ynnead is at the centre of their pantheon. But they still live in symbiosis with the nature. The artwork shows an elf on a feathered mount, not like a chocobo, but more like a feathered raptor. the artbook shows pictures (and rules) from all existing elf armies.
Skaven and Dawikorr are the only races that use blackpowder, the rest of Regalia is on stuck on an ancient/medieval tech level. The Exoatl use magic techno gear. There is a certain level of anachronistic gear but it is not steampunk but powered by ancient magic. The only steampunk elements are in the Skaven and to a lesser extent the neo-dwarven fluff.
Chaos has no foothold in the north but is anywhere and consists of corrupted tribes and companies from every region of the world. The barbarian theme of the nomadic tribes is more associated with khorne than with chaos as a whole. Beastmen and demons are likely part of their faction because they are described in the same chapter (both in the fluff and unit cards), but demons can be summoned by everyone, so I don’t know for sure. And beastmen have very few pictures, so that’s a bad omen.
Waaghkins: orcs, goblins and are the servants of the old gods and live in a strict caste system, orcs are the manual laborers. There is a new race called nigmos: a tall and slender priest caste. Waaghkins travel the undersea, a system of flooded caverns that connects the whole world, on longboats and do the dirty work for the Exoatl. There is an artwork of the three different kinds of greenskins (no squigs and snotlings mentioned): an ork in very strange armour, very front heavy, textured like a symmetric turtle shell, he wields is an axe with multiple disc shape blades, goblin looked like a viking but has a futuristic looking handgun, the third was taller than a ork, female, slender - probably a nigmo. But in the photos of actual miniatures only show the old orc style. There is a subfaction of waaghkins that changed allegiance from the old gods to grimgor incarnate and are much more ferocious than their cousins.
undeads, deamons and spirits, and guardian hosts are used by every faction of the game, necromancy but not summoning is common in the dominion of Sigmar. The Inneadim are famous for their use of animated constructs. These things are not a big taboo in Regalia. However the most fearsome necromancers are (obviously) employed by the Empire of Nehekhara (which is not a desolate wasteland and has no egyptian vibe but is a rich and green country and feels more babylonian to me) and their death gods. But there is no Undead faction per se anymore. Vampires are called Necrarchs now.
Guardians hosts are troops that were granted by a god from another realm or the realm of the dead. They are living beings and have free will, but were brought to Regalia on the command of a deity.
- Lizardmen are not gone. There is a race called Servants of the Exoatl that guard the pole portals on flying pyramids, but no drawings and no fluff page (other races and tribess get at least half a page). They get unit cards for their old units (which confirms that they are simply lizardmen with a new name), but instead of beautiful pages with pictures like the rest of the bunch they get a simple list in the appendix of the compendium book.
Beastmen get the same lowkey treatment, but ogres get pictures and all, but I cannot say with which pantheon/faction they align. They are mortal, so you can use them in any the guardians of regalia army, but I don’t know if this is a stop gap solution or not.
Age of Sigmar box content:
Extrapolated from the pictures, they are the only new models. If you think you get 3-5 UNITS for each side, you are wrong. you get 10-15 (haven’t counted) CHARACTERS per side. Each model is really individual and it is in no way possible to field the majority of them as a visual coherent unit. It is late and this summary is long as it is, so I make this brief, but I will come back later and add some info on the miniatures. Chaos looks very similar to the old style except the berserkers, the Sigmarite Force is completely different.
Missionary Force:
3 Knights of the Order of Sigmars Blood, Roman looking armour but more bulky, leather Bands, swords and teardrop-shaped shields, champion is a woman
a pair of vigilantes: Male and female, leathercloaked, tricorn, 2 hand-crossbows
a hand full of heavy armoured warrior with different weapons and cloaks, almost knightly in appearance but completely over the top bulky, some have eagleshaped helmets
One hooded, chainmail wearing, hammer wielding girl
a bulldog
standard bearer: naked, chains that are hooked into the flesh, very archaic looking
one arabic looking guy with a two-handed scimitar and full armour
one guy in rags that wields a chain that burns at both ends, very impractical looking
Chaos Cult:
two outriders, basically chaos barbarians as we know them, but female
~5 berserkers: african looking, no armour, barefeet, clad in cloth stripes, two axes, bald and gaunt looking, not overly muscular, bone chain, both male and female
three pristesses: flowing robes, sacrifical ziggzagged daggers, skullmasks
two armoured harpies with spears and shields, crooked looking, feathered wings
at least five chaos warriors similar in appearance to the old chaos warriors, very dynamic fur cloaks and poses, one of them bigger on a larger base, all male as far as I could see
one large bloodletter, almost twice the size of a human
the leader has armour that looks like a chaos dwarfish, very babylonic, rides a demonwolf, a juggernaut, but with flesh and fur and spikes
some more viking-like infantry but with more chainmail
That’s only a broad description. Every model is highly individual.
Sorry for the chaotic nature of the info, I spent the evening writing this in a very fast manner. This is only the tip of the iceberg and I will come back with a little bit more soon - hopefully in a more ordered fashion. If you have a questions or need specifics and a topic, feel free to ask, maybe I remember something of use.
mikhaila wrote: -The new system will have both Skirmish and large battle with ranked troops versions.
-Skirmish can use round or square. Large version is square.
-The round 32mm bases in the space marine boxes were originally made for WH:AoS, but the 40k studio guys liked the look and they fit space marines better.
-AOS box will have both round and square bases in the box.
No, no, no. No square bases, no rank and file, no two game systems.
-------------------------
I had the chance to look thoroughly through the proper Age of Sigmar rulebook (the one that consists of three books) yesterday evening. Spent my time with the three books and ignored the novel in favour of the real interesting things. So I cannot fill in the blanks there. But maybe I have the opportunity to look at the rulebook and novel again and hopefully the age of sigmar box, too. But now I have a way clearer picture what’s coming and I’d like to share with you because I am very (!!!) excited, but I cannot provide any photos for obvious reasons. So if you don’t believe me, I don’t blame you. But please don’t attack me personally.
Spoiler:
- Title of the rulebook is: Age of Sigmar: a Warhammer strategy game
- first the basics (most of which are already known):
- full fledged rule system; no skirmish game - meaning not restricted to low miniature count: 50 models on average, way lower possible, in general you use units but you can field an army consisting of only single models
- everything is on round or oval bases (there paragraph that explicitly allows legacy and diorama bases, though);
- 2 books: the rules (rules and scenarios) and compendium (pictures, unit cards and fluff)
- there are unit cards for every (as far as I can see) old unit in the second book, including warhammer forge models and most or all special characters. Some units get the full treatment with a small fluff text, pictures of the actual miniatures and rules, some units get only rules with nothing more.
- all new rules with complete new mechanics: think not of 40k 2nd -> 3rd but Warhammer 8th -> Bloodbowl, very compact and fast paced, huge emphasis on individual champions, magic and gods (don’t know how powerful, but these have the most rule pages)
- no photos (and no artworks except some very generic drawings) of new miniatures except a couple chaos and human miniatures that are very likely from the Age of Sigmar box.
- all the races are in, but some are clearly favored. There are few pictures of beastmen and lizardmen for example and some units like steamtanks, gunpowder units (Skaven and new-dwarfs use them still), etc. can only be fielded as mercenaries from a different world or summoned units (in case of most special characters, there is even a picture of a Teclis painted in ghost colors)
- the tech level is between and ancient roman empire and early medieval times, lots of nomadic barbarian tribes, etc. But judging by to the age of sigmar miniatures the armour design draws only a little bit from history and is has a very stylized high-fantasy design instead
- there are lots of different people, races, gods and lots of different alliances. The world is a lot more open minded than the old one, Empire-Orc Alliance would be unthinkable, but a human-waaghkin force is nothing unusual in this setting
Army building
- you pick one or more gods that determine the theurgic or magic schools (don’t know what the difference is, sorry) you can use and how your champions get power-ups during the game. You can take several gods, but they have to be from the same pantheon - so no nurgle-sigmar armies, but Nagash-Morr is possible.Then you choose whichever unit you want - from every race. There is no limit as far as I can tell.
- The only mechanic that I have spotted that limits the useful choices somehow is that most spells and special rules only affect units with certain traits, the powers of Grimgor (magic and gods are always connected, each lore has a patron god that grants the power) affects only mortals or enemy units in the proximity of mortals.
- There are only rules for one pantheon in the rule book, all the other gods and pantheons are only mentioned in the fluff
- Guardians of Regalia, a conglomerate native spirits and gods and lately some new gods, the incarnates Grimgor, Gelt and Nagash, there are thousand of gods and their relevance changes over time and in different regions, but there are seven big gods that have seven schools of magic associated with them and have rules in the book
- Geshemet or Gesheket or something like this (male and female, fertility, natural disaster) is the head of the pantheon, the other six gods are dual pair of good and evil:
two death gods: Nagahs and Morr
two smith and labour gods: Hashut and Gelt
two war gods: Grimgor and Myrmidia
- five other pantheon get a page of fluff each, and additional minor pantheons/deities are mentioned in the fluff. The big five are Chaos, Sigmar, Cuth’adai (elven gods), Exoatl (old ones) and the triumvi-rats (Horned Rat + 2 more)
- all characters can earn favor of their gods and get promoted just like the chaos champions until they reach apotheosis, this is also a huge mechanic in the game + you can field gods or at least their avatars, but only three incarnates have rules in the book
Rules
- there is only one ruleset (don’t know what is in the AoS box, but in the book there is no distinction between skirmish mode and battle mode or something like this)
- rules have nothing to do with the old warhammer rules,
- profile is: Melee, Range, Might, Armour, Initiative, Resolve, Wounds, values from 1-6, lower is better
- simple turn sequence: initiative -> player 1 unit 1 moves, shoots, casts -> p1 unit 2 moves, shoots, casts -> ... -> player 2 moves, shoots, casts -> melee
- players roll always against each other, for example Melee vs Initiative and Range vs Initiative, Might vs Armour
- units regenerate all lost wounds at the end of the phase
- both sides in a melee fight simultaneously, winner can roll to fight instantaneously another round until one side is extinct or one side chooses to break from the combat
- there is no moral system or combat resolution whatsoever, but unit can be bounced back
- units use a 1” 40k formation without any facing
- magic spells are all one-use only, when you use it, you have to discard the card
- you can collect ascension points throughout the game and spend the point to buff your champions, mechanic depends on your god(s)
- unit costs points as before, you are not allowed to field multiple units of the same kind unless the former unit have full strength - there are all kinds of unit sizes from 1-3 to 3-15 (that’s the highest I have seen), but you can field lots of different 1-man units
- you don’t buy champions, a set number of models are automatically upgraded to champions, but you cannot exceed the limit
- there are rules for different weapons, magic items, war engines, monsters, special rules, etc and a large section for scenarios and terrain, larger than the actual rules
Setting
game is set on world Regalia that is connected with other young realms through portals of the old ones. Young realms are realms that were populated by the old creators and were guided on similar historical paths. They were untouched by chaos but this has changed since the arrival of sigmar (as a new faith) and archaon (as an actual emissary in flesh and blood)
there is no explanation (or just a brief one so that I have missed it) how this all came to be, just a description of the history of Regalia (and to a lesser extent some neighbouring realms)
On Regalia is dominated by hundreds of human kingdoms. Fast travel is possible through a number of stone circles that allows mages to open portal from one to another and a system of streams and seas under the earth that can be navigated by ship. There were a long period of peace curated by the Exoatl (Old Ones) that watched over the world from the North and Southpole. But then suddenly new faiths arrived, lots of human tribes started to pray to Sigmar and to conquer their neighbouring kingdoms. These lands are each independent, but are united in their faith to Sigmar. The history ends with the conquering of the Worlds Edge mountains and the crowning of the first emperor. At the same time, the first agents of Chaos arrived and began to corrupt the native people. A part of the Waaghkins rebelled against the old ones in favour of new gods, the Skaven arrived the first time, and in the south and east a death cult began to spread. The world is in turmoil. There are lots of unfinished story hooks so I think the story will be continued, but that might be wishful thinking.
humans are the majority in this world and they have kingdom and tribes everywhere, most of the known earth-inspired regions like cathay are there, but they are not described as fully flegded feudal nations but constantly changing petty empires and nomadic people ruled by warlords and champions of the gods. there are two factions of humans, the worshippers of sigmar and the polytheistic rest, both are not monocultural, but have different skin colors and cultures. Women fight beside men!
The dominion of sigmar is special, because they are the only ones that are reluctant to allow any other race than humans. They have only one god and their goal is to destroy all other gods and conquer their domains - for the greater good of the world of course. This has nothing in common with the Empire of the old world, except the heraldry, griffons are still en vogue. All tribes and city states and kingdoms are independent, the only common ground is their faith, the emperor is only a warlord with the purpose to expands the dominion towards the east. There a still knightly orders, zealots, witchhunters - so they retain some of their medieval flair but there are no state troops. There is no gunpowder, except from some dwarven imports, but they are known for using large warwaggons on their trek to the east. Kislec, Estalia, Araby, city states of Bretonnia, Norse and tribes of the Reiklands are part of the dominion. There are also some enclaves scattered across the world that are connected with magic portals
The Skaven arrived on their own on Regalia and are basically the same. Haven’t spent much time on them. They have now three gods called the triumvi-rat …..
Dawikorr (dwarfs) and Inneadim (elfs) have their own realms that are connected with Regalia. The Inneadim have outposts in America.
Dawikorr are only a legend on Regalia and nobody has seen them, but there are legends that they aid whorshippers of Sigmar in peril. They deliver the dominions of Sigmar with artifacts. They live underneath the world Karak Korr and guard the Soul Mill. Dawikorr have rules, so they can be fielded.
The Soul Mill is a huge machinery that allows minor deities to feed on the power of dead spirits or let them reincarnate or serve them as guardian hosts. It was built by the surviving dwarves of the old world on command of the Incarnates on a older machinery of the old ones. The dwarfs guard the soul mill and are aligned with Sigmar after the shattering of the Incarnates, but are under siege of the skaven that have found their way on this world and managed to steal two mighty souls that formed their new gods.
Inneadim whorship the dreamers, gods that have dreamt themselves, basically the elven gods. They live on their own world and protect the dreamchild. Under Araloth they founded enclaves on Regalia in search for the archelves, lost gods of their pantheon. They are a darker take on the elves, nightmare are as much part of their culture then dreams. They use necromancy and the death god Ynnead is at the centre of their pantheon. But they still live in symbiosis with the nature. The artwork shows an elf on a feathered mount, not like a chocobo, but more like a feathered raptor. the artbook shows pictures (and rules) from all existing elf armies.
Skaven and Dawikorr are the only races that use blackpowder, the rest of Regalia is on stuck on an ancient/medieval tech level. The Exoatl use magic techno gear. There is a certain level of anachronistic gear but it is not steampunk but powered by ancient magic. The only steampunk elements are in the Skaven and to a lesser extent the neo-dwarven fluff.
Chaos has no foothold in the north but is anywhere and consists of corrupted tribes and companies from every region of the world. The barbarian theme of the nomadic tribes is more associated with khorne than with chaos as a whole. Beastmen and demons are likely part of their faction because they are described in the same chapter (both in the fluff and unit cards), but demons can be summoned by everyone, so I don’t know for sure. And beastmen have very few pictures, so that’s a bad omen.
Waaghkins: orcs, goblins and are the servants of the old gods and live in a strict caste system, orcs are the manual laborers. There is a new race called nigmos: a tall and slender priest caste. Waaghkins travel the undersea, a system of flooded caverns that connects the whole world, on longboats and do the dirty work for the Exoatl. There is an artwork of the three different kinds of greenskins (no squigs and snotlings mentioned): an ork in very strange armour, very front heavy, textured like a symmetric turtle shell, he wields is an axe with multiple disc shape blades, goblin looked like a viking but has a futuristic looking handgun, the third was taller than a ork, female, slender - probably a nigmo. But in the photos of actual miniatures only show the old orc style. There is a subfaction of waaghkins that changed allegiance from the old gods to grimgor incarnate and are much more ferocious than their cousins.
undeads, deamons and spirits, and guardian hosts are used by every faction of the game, necromancy but not summoning is common in the dominion of Sigmar. The Inneadim are famous for their use of animated constructs. These things are not a big taboo in Regalia. However the most fearsome necromancers are (obviously) employed by the Empire of Nehekhara (which is not a desolate wasteland and has no egyptian vibe but is a rich and green country and feels more babylonian to me) and their death gods. But there is no Undead faction per se anymore. Vampires are called Necrarchs now.
Guardians hosts are troops that were granted by a god from another realm or the realm of the dead. They are living beings and have free will, but were brought to Regalia on the command of a deity.
- Lizardmen are not gone. There is a race called Servants of the Exoatl that guard the pole portals on flying pyramids, but no drawings and no fluff page (other races and tribess get at least half a page). They get unit cards for their old units (which confirms that they are simply lizardmen with a new name), but instead of beautiful pages with pictures like the rest of the bunch they get a simple list in the appendix of the compendium book.
Beastmen get the same lowkey treatment, but ogres get pictures and all, but I cannot say with which pantheon/faction they align. They are mortal, so you can use them in any the guardians of regalia army, but I don’t know if this is a stop gap solution or not.
Age of Sigmar box content:
Extrapolated from the pictures, they are the only new models. If you think you get 3-5 UNITS for each side, you are wrong. you get 10-15 (haven’t counted) CHARACTERS per side. Each model is really individual and it is in no way possible to field the majority of them as a visual coherent unit. It is late and this summary is long as it is, so I make this brief, but I will come back later and add some info on the miniatures. Chaos looks very similar to the old style except the berserkers, the Sigmarite Force is completely different.
Missionary Force:
3 Knights of the Order of Sigmars Blood, Roman looking armour but more bulky, leather Bands, swords and teardrop-shaped shields, champion is a woman
a pair of vigilantes: Male and female, leathercloaked, tricorn, 2 hand-crossbows
a hand full of heavy armoured warrior with different weapons and cloaks, almost knightly in appearance but completely over the top bulky, some have eagleshaped helmets
One hooded, chainmail wearing, hammer wielding girl
a bulldog
standard bearer: naked, chains that are hooked into the flesh, very archaic looking
one arabic looking guy with a two-handed scimitar and full armour
one guy in rags that wields a chain that burns at both ends, very impractical looking
Chaos Cult:
two outriders, basically chaos barbarians as we know them, but female
~5 berserkers: african looking, no armour, barefeet, clad in cloth stripes, two axes, bald and gaunt looking, not overly muscular, bone chain, both male and female
three pristesses: flowing robes, sacrifical ziggzagged daggers, skullmasks
two armoured harpies with spears and shields, crooked looking, feathered wings
at least five chaos warriors similar in appearance to the old chaos warriors, very dynamic fur cloaks and poses, one of them bigger on a larger base, all male as far as I could see
one large bloodletter, almost twice the size of a human
the leader has armour that looks like a chaos dwarfish, very babylonic, rides a demonwolf, a juggernaut, but with flesh and fur and spikes
some more viking-like infantry but with more chainmail
That’s only a broad description. Every model is highly individual.
Sorry for the chaotic nature of the info, I spent the evening writing this in a very fast manner. This is only the tip of the iceberg and I will come back with a little bit more soon - hopefully in a more ordered fashion. If you have a questions or need specifics and a topic, feel free to ask, maybe I remember something of use.
Thanks for going through the effort of typing that. It sounds interesting but not very warhammer-ish which sounds like it is the point as a revolution instead of an evolution. I guess we'll see in a few weeks if it comes to pass as you posted. Just in case, I quoted your post. I'm torn whether or not I want 40k to undergo the same type of upheavel as I think that it is both mechanically and fluff-wise very unbalanced and stale (respectively).
Not that im one to call someone out since I myself have been a member since only January. BUUUUT that dudes only been a member 3days and has 2 posts? Makes you wonder about people. Anyone seen the reddit post from the "fired" Bethesda employee who claimed to have all the know about Fallout 4?
Sounds far fetched once again. No images, and i'm not believing it. Its unclear to me why people get their hands on stuff, and yet somehow can't sneak at least 1-2 photos or have some sort of evidence. Unless the guy is looking right over your shoulder as you look at it. No one is going to know where the photos originated from if you know how to do it right, obviously people don't
Even if this is the Ye Olde Pancake Fantasy Edition, why the hostility? It'll likely be proven completely wrong or completely right (since it is so different from the current rules) in just a few weeks.
I would prefer it to be either a 9th edition or a completely new skirmish system as the new poster described. Not excited by the idea of GW attempting to do both in one ruleset.
While I like how it sounds mechanically there are too many interesting concepts and departures from their way of doing things to easily believe they would go with it. Alternating activation, opposed rolls etc.
You understand that Mikhaila is a retailer and getting his information right from his GW rep, correct?
This is a link to my first post on DakkaDakka in 2008, when I correctly called 40K 5th Edition release becuase of what was said by a GW sales Rep, who probably should have kept his mouth shut.
This is a link to the first of a few posts where Mikhaila called BS on it and me, because he thought he would know about it if it was true.
Owning a store, and having a recognizable online presence, probably makes people less likely to share information like that with you.
Also, people are more likely to share information with you if they like you. A decade ago, I used to consistantly know more about future releases than the owner and manager of the LGS, because they were both ... um.. less personable than myself.
Nowadays, beacuase of the internet, I know more about GW release schedule than the LGS staff and their GW sales Rep. The GW sales rep for this region doesn't even game, she was hired for her sales experience.
Now I'm not saying we should take everything SinaLeibniz is saying without a salt shaker's worth of salt, but that being a retailer, with GW currently policies, isn't doing anyone any favors for finding out what's coming out next these days.
You understand that Mikhaila is a retailer and getting his information right from his GW rep, correct?
Is there something in Mikhaila's post that is 100% unreconcilable with the big rumor post that you're referring to? I didn't see something there. I could easily see the support for both types of bases listed in each post as well as the talk about skirmish to larger sized games being supported coming from the same base info but just interpreted differently. The only thing I could see as completely opposed would be Mikhaila talking about ranked formation support whereas Sina talks about 1" 40k style coherency. His post goes into a ton of detail so it'll be incredibly easy to disprove if needed once anything definitive (like pics of a WD article) come out. I'd be more suspicious if he posted half that and then told us the rest was on his advert filled blog as I'd suspect he was just looking for hits but I didn't see anything. I don't really have a dog in this fight (most of my purchased fantasy figs were for a generic system 20 years ago or for D&D) nor do I know him so I'm not partial either way... I'm just curious to see what happens.
Sounds terrible. Fortunately im willing to bet my left testicle that this is a hoax. No way that gw release a starter whrre half the mini are woman. And orks being led by a female priest caste!!! Id be very surprised
mikhaila wrote: -The new system will have both Skirmish and large battle with ranked troops versions.
-Skirmish can use round or square. Large version is square.
-The round 32mm bases in the space marine boxes were originally made for WH:AoS, but the 40k studio guys liked the look and they fit space marines better.
-AOS box will have both round and square bases in the box.
No, no, no. No square bases, no rank and file, no two game systems.
-------------------------
I had the chance to look thoroughly through the proper Age of Sigmar rulebook (the one that consists of three books) yesterday evening. Spent my time with the three books and ignored the novel in favour of the real interesting things. So I cannot fill in the blanks there. But maybe I have the opportunity to look at the rulebook and novel again and hopefully the age of sigmar box, too. But now I have a way clearer picture what’s coming and I’d like to share with you because I am very (!!!) excited, but I cannot provide any photos for obvious reasons. So if you don’t believe me, I don’t blame you. But please don’t attack me personally.
- Title of the rulebook is: Age of Sigmar: a Warhammer strategy game
- first the basics (most of which are already known):
- full fledged rule system; no skirmish game - meaning not restricted to low miniature count: 50 models on average, way lower possible, in general you use units but you can field an army consisting of only single models
- everything is on round or oval bases (there paragraph that explicitly allows legacy and diorama bases, though);
- 2 books: the rules (rules and scenarios) and compendium (pictures, unit cards and fluff)
- there are unit cards for every (as far as I can see) old unit in the second book, including warhammer forge models and most or all special characters. Some units get the full treatment with a small fluff text, pictures of the actual miniatures and rules, some units get only rules with nothing more.
- all new rules with complete new mechanics: think not of 40k 2nd -> 3rd but Warhammer 8th -> Bloodbowl, very compact and fast paced, huge emphasis on individual champions, magic and gods (don’t know how powerful, but these have the most rule pages)
- no photos (and no artworks except some very generic drawings) of new miniatures except a couple chaos and human miniatures that are very likely from the Age of Sigmar box.
- all the races are in, but some are clearly favored. There are few pictures of beastmen and lizardmen for example and some units like steamtanks, gunpowder units (Skaven and new-dwarfs use them still), etc. can only be fielded as mercenaries from a different world or summoned units (in case of most special characters, there is even a picture of a Teclis painted in ghost colors)
- the tech level is between and ancient roman empire and early medieval times, lots of nomadic barbarian tribes, etc. But judging by to the age of sigmar miniatures the armour design draws only a little bit from history and is has a very stylized high-fantasy design instead
- there are lots of different people, races, gods and lots of different alliances. The world is a lot more open minded than the old one, Empire-Orc Alliance would be unthinkable, but a human-waaghkin force is nothing unusual in this setting
Army building
- you pick one or more gods that determine the theurgic or magic schools (don’t know what the difference is, sorry) you can use and how your champions get power-ups during the game. You can take several gods, but they have to be from the same pantheon - so no nurgle-sigmar armies, but Nagash-Morr is possible.Then you choose whichever unit you want - from every race. There is no limit as far as I can tell.
- The only mechanic that I have spotted that limits the useful choices somehow is that most spells and special rules only affect units with certain traits, the powers of Grimgor (magic and gods are always connected, each lore has a patron god that grants the power) affects only mortals or enemy units in the proximity of mortals.
- There are only rules for one pantheon in the rule book, all the other gods and pantheons are only mentioned in the fluff
- Guardians of Regalia, a conglomerate native spirits and gods and lately some new gods, the incarnates Grimgor, Gelt and Nagash, there are thousand of gods and their relevance changes over time and in different regions, but there are seven big gods that have seven schools of magic associated with them and have rules in the book
- Geshemet or Gesheket or something like this (male and female, fertility, natural disaster) is the head of the pantheon, the other six gods are dual pair of good and evil:
two death gods: Nagahs and Morr
two smith and labour gods: Hashut and Gelt
two war gods: Grimgor and Myrmidia
- five other pantheon get a page of fluff each, and additional minor pantheons/deities are mentioned in the fluff. The big five are Chaos, Sigmar, Cuth’adai (elven gods), Exoatl (old ones) and the triumvi-rats (Horned Rat + 2 more)
- all characters can earn favor of their gods and get promoted just like the chaos champions until they reach apotheosis, this is also a huge mechanic in the game + you can field gods or at least their avatars, but only three incarnates have rules in the book
Rules
- there is only one ruleset (don’t know what is in the AoS box, but in the book there is no distinction between skirmish mode and battle mode or something like this)
- rules have nothing to do with the old warhammer rules,
- profile is: Melee, Range, Might, Armour, Initiative, Resolve, Wounds, values from 1-6, lower is better
- simple turn sequence: initiative -> player 1 unit 1 moves, shoots, casts -> p1 unit 2 moves, shoots, casts -> ... -> player 2 moves, shoots, casts -> melee
- players roll always against each other, for example Melee vs Initiative and Range vs Initiative, Might vs Armour
- units regenerate all lost wounds at the end of the phase
- both sides in a melee fight simultaneously, winner can roll to fight instantaneously another round until one side is extinct or one side chooses to break from the combat
- there is no moral system or combat resolution whatsoever, but unit can be bounced back
- units use a 1” 40k formation without any facing
- magic spells are all one-use only, when you use it, you have to discard the card
- you can collect ascension points throughout the game and spend the point to buff your champions, mechanic depends on your god(s)
- unit costs points as before, you are not allowed to field multiple units of the same kind unless the former unit have full strength - there are all kinds of unit sizes from 1-3 to 3-15 (that’s the highest I have seen), but you can field lots of different 1-man units
- you don’t buy champions, a set number of models are automatically upgraded to champions, but you cannot exceed the limit
- there are rules for different weapons, magic items, war engines, monsters, special rules, etc and a large section for scenarios and terrain, larger than the actual rules
Setting
game is set on world Regalia that is connected with other young realms through portals of the old ones. Young realms are realms that were populated by the old creators and were guided on similar historical paths. They were untouched by chaos but this has changed since the arrival of sigmar (as a new faith) and archaon (as an actual emissary in flesh and blood)
there is no explanation (or just a brief one so that I have missed it) how this all came to be, just a description of the history of Regalia (and to a lesser extent some neighbouring realms)
On Regalia is dominated by hundreds of human kingdoms. Fast travel is possible through a number of stone circles that allows mages to open portal from one to another and a system of streams and seas under the earth that can be navigated by ship. There were a long period of peace curated by the Exoatl (Old Ones) that watched over the world from the North and Southpole. But then suddenly new faiths arrived, lots of human tribes started to pray to Sigmar and to conquer their neighbouring kingdoms. These lands are each independent, but are united in their faith to Sigmar. The history ends with the conquering of the Worlds Edge mountains and the crowning of the first emperor. At the same time, the first agents of Chaos arrived and began to corrupt the native people. A part of the Waaghkins rebelled against the old ones in favour of new gods, the Skaven arrived the first time, and in the south and east a death cult began to spread. The world is in turmoil. There are lots of unfinished story hooks so I think the story will be continued, but that might be wishful thinking.
humans are the majority in this world and they have kingdom and tribes everywhere, most of the known earth-inspired regions like cathay are there, but they are not described as fully flegded feudal nations but constantly changing petty empires and nomadic people ruled by warlords and champions of the gods. there are two factions of humans, the worshippers of sigmar and the polytheistic rest, both are not monocultural, but have different skin colors and cultures. Women fight beside men!
The dominion of sigmar is special, because they are the only ones that are reluctant to allow any other race than humans. They have only one god and their goal is to destroy all other gods and conquer their domains - for the greater good of the world of course. This has nothing in common with the Empire of the old world, except the heraldry, griffons are still en vogue. All tribes and city states and kingdoms are independent, the only common ground is their faith, the emperor is only a warlord with the purpose to expands the dominion towards the east. There a still knightly orders, zealots, witchhunters - so they retain some of their medieval flair but there are no state troops. There is no gunpowder, except from some dwarven imports, but they are known for using large warwaggons on their trek to the east. Kislec, Estalia, Araby, city states of Bretonnia, Norse and tribes of the Reiklands are part of the dominion. There are also some enclaves scattered across the world that are connected with magic portals
The Skaven arrived on their own on Regalia and are basically the same. Haven’t spent much time on them. They have now three gods called the triumvi-rat …..
Dawikorr (dwarfs) and Inneadim (elfs) have their own realms that are connected with Regalia. The Inneadim have outposts in America.
Dawikorr are only a legend on Regalia and nobody has seen them, but there are legends that they aid whorshippers of Sigmar in peril. They deliver the dominions of Sigmar with artifacts. They live underneath the world Karak Korr and guard the Soul Mill. Dawikorr have rules, so they can be fielded.
The Soul Mill is a huge machinery that allows minor deities to feed on the power of dead spirits or let them reincarnate or serve them as guardian hosts. It was built by the surviving dwarves of the old world on command of the Incarnates on a older machinery of the old ones. The dwarfs guard the soul mill and are aligned with Sigmar after the shattering of the Incarnates, but are under siege of the skaven that have found their way on this world and managed to steal two mighty souls that formed their new gods.
Inneadim whorship the dreamers, gods that have dreamt themselves, basically the elven gods. They live on their own world and protect the dreamchild. Under Araloth they founded enclaves on Regalia in search for the archelves, lost gods of their pantheon. They are a darker take on the elves, nightmare are as much part of their culture then dreams. They use necromancy and the death god Ynnead is at the centre of their pantheon. But they still live in symbiosis with the nature. The artwork shows an elf on a feathered mount, not like a chocobo, but more like a feathered raptor. the artbook shows pictures (and rules) from all existing elf armies.
Skaven and Dawikorr are the only races that use blackpowder, the rest of Regalia is on stuck on an ancient/medieval tech level. The Exoatl use magic techno gear. There is a certain level of anachronistic gear but it is not steampunk but powered by ancient magic. The only steampunk elements are in the Skaven and to a lesser extent the neo-dwarven fluff.
Chaos has no foothold in the north but is anywhere and consists of corrupted tribes and companies from every region of the world. The barbarian theme of the nomadic tribes is more associated with khorne than with chaos as a whole. Beastmen and demons are likely part of their faction because they are described in the same chapter (both in the fluff and unit cards), but demons can be summoned by everyone, so I don’t know for sure. And beastmen have very few pictures, so that’s a bad omen.
Waaghkins: orcs, goblins and are the servants of the old gods and live in a strict caste system, orcs are the manual laborers. There is a new race called nigmos: a tall and slender priest caste. Waaghkins travel the undersea, a system of flooded caverns that connects the whole world, on longboats and do the dirty work for the Exoatl. There is an artwork of the three different kinds of greenskins (no squigs and snotlings mentioned): an ork in very strange armour, very front heavy, textured like a symmetric turtle shell, he wields is an axe with multiple disc shape blades, goblin looked like a viking but has a futuristic looking handgun, the third was taller than a ork, female, slender - probably a nigmo. But in the photos of actual miniatures only show the old orc style. There is a subfaction of waaghkins that changed allegiance from the old gods to grimgor incarnate and are much more ferocious than their cousins.
undeads, deamons and spirits, and guardian hosts are used by every faction of the game, necromancy but not summoning is common in the dominion of Sigmar. The Inneadim are famous for their use of animated constructs. These things are not a big taboo in Regalia. However the most fearsome necromancers are (obviously) employed by the Empire of Nehekhara (which is not a desolate wasteland and has no egyptian vibe but is a rich and green country and feels more babylonian to me) and their death gods. But there is no Undead faction per se anymore. Vampires are called Necrarchs now.
Guardians hosts are troops that were granted by a god from another realm or the realm of the dead. They are living beings and have free will, but were brought to Regalia on the command of a deity.
- Lizardmen are not gone. There is a race called Servants of the Exoatl that guard the pole portals on flying pyramids, but no drawings and no fluff page (other races and tribess get at least half a page). They get unit cards for their old units (which confirms that they are simply lizardmen with a new name), but instead of beautiful pages with pictures like the rest of the bunch they get a simple list in the appendix of the compendium book.
Beastmen get the same lowkey treatment, but ogres get pictures and all, but I cannot say with which pantheon/faction they align. They are mortal, so you can use them in any the guardians of regalia army, but I don’t know if this is a stop gap solution or not.
Age of Sigmar box content:
Extrapolated from the pictures, they are the only new models. If you think you get 3-5 UNITS for each side, you are wrong. you get 10-15 (haven’t counted) CHARACTERS per side. Each model is really individual and it is in no way possible to field the majority of them as a visual coherent unit. It is late and this summary is long as it is, so I make this brief, but I will come back later and add some info on the miniatures. Chaos looks very similar to the old style except the berserkers, the Sigmarite Force is completely different.
Missionary Force:
3 Knights of the Order of Sigmars Blood, Roman looking armour but more bulky, leather Bands, swords and teardrop-shaped shields, champion is a woman
a pair of vigilantes: Male and female, leathercloaked, tricorn, 2 hand-crossbows
a hand full of heavy armoured warrior with different weapons and cloaks, almost knightly in appearance but completely over the top bulky, some have eagleshaped helmets
One hooded, chainmail wearing, hammer wielding girl
a bulldog
standard bearer: naked, chains that are hooked into the flesh, very archaic looking
one arabic looking guy with a two-handed scimitar and full armour
one guy in rags that wields a chain that burns at both ends, very impractical looking
Chaos Cult:
two outriders, basically chaos barbarians as we know them, but female
~5 berserkers: african looking, no armour, barefeet, clad in cloth stripes, two axes, bald and gaunt looking, not overly muscular, bone chain, both male and female
three pristesses: flowing robes, sacrifical ziggzagged daggers, skullmasks
two armoured harpies with spears and shields, crooked looking, feathered wings
at least five chaos warriors similar in appearance to the old chaos warriors, very dynamic fur cloaks and poses, one of them bigger on a larger base, all male as far as I could see
one large bloodletter, almost twice the size of a human
the leader has armour that looks like a chaos dwarfish, very babylonic, rides a demonwolf, a juggernaut, but with flesh and fur and spikes
some more viking-like infantry but with more chainmail
That’s only a broad description. Every model is highly individual.
Sorry for the chaotic nature of the info, I spent the evening writing this in a very fast manner. This is only the tip of the iceberg and I will come back with a little bit more soon - hopefully in a more ordered fashion. If you have a questions or need specifics and a topic, feel free to ask, maybe I remember something of use.
Thanks for posting this! I have a question about chaos dwarfs, you posted this which relates from what I can see:
- there are unit cards for every (as far as I can see) old unit in the second book, including warhammer forge models and most or all special characters. Some units get the full treatment with a small fluff text, pictures of the actual miniatures and rules, some units get only rules with nothing more.
...
...there are seven big gods that have seven schools of magic associated with them and have rules in the book
- Geshemet or Gesheket or something like this (male and female, fertility, natural disaster) is the head of the pantheon, the other six gods are dual pair of good and evil:
two death gods: Nagahs and Morr
two smith and labour gods: Hashut and Gelt
two war gods: Grimgor and Myrmidia
If Hashut is one of the 7 main gods / schools of magic in the book (if I'm reading this right), what is the role of chaos dwarfs in the book? Part of the chaos cult...? I don't see further mention of them except where you say the chaos cult have a new model of a leader that "has armour that looks like a chaos dwarfish". Could you check and see where chaos dwarfs slot in? You mention that only skaven and "new-dwarfs" or "neo-dwarfs" have black powder weapons, but it seems like chaos dwarfs would have them too (as well as any existing empire units) so I'm not quite making the connection there. Any more info about chaos dwarfs would be greatly appreciated
SinaLeibniz wrote: No, no, no. No square bases, no rank and file, no two game systems.
-------------------------
I had the chance to look thoroughly through the proper Age of Sigmar rulebook (the one that consists of three books) yesterday evening. Spent my time with the three books and ignored the novel in favour of the real interesting things. So I cannot fill in the blanks there. But maybe I have the opportunity to look at the rulebook and novel again and hopefully the age of sigmar box, too. But now I have a way clearer picture what’s coming and I’d like to share with you because I am very (!!!) excited, but I cannot provide any photos for obvious reasons. So if you don’t believe me, I don’t blame you. But please don’t attack me personally.
- Title of the rulebook is: Age of Sigmar: a Warhammer strategy game
- first the basics (most of which are already known):
- full fledged rule system; no skirmish game - meaning not restricted to low miniature count: 50 models on average, way lower possible, in general you use units but you can field an army consisting of only single models
- everything is on round or oval bases (there paragraph that explicitly allows legacy and diorama bases, though);
- 2 books: the rules (rules and scenarios) and compendium (pictures, unit cards and fluff)
- there are unit cards for every (as far as I can see) old unit in the second book, including warhammer forge models and most or all special characters. Some units get the full treatment with a small fluff text, pictures of the actual miniatures and rules, some units get only rules with nothing more.
- all new rules with complete new mechanics: think not of 40k 2nd -> 3rd but Warhammer 8th -> Bloodbowl, very compact and fast paced, huge emphasis on individual champions, magic and gods (don’t know how powerful, but these have the most rule pages)
- no photos (and no artworks except some very generic drawings) of new miniatures except a couple chaos and human miniatures that are very likely from the Age of Sigmar box.
- all the races are in, but some are clearly favored. There are few pictures of beastmen and lizardmen for example and some units like steamtanks, gunpowder units (Skaven and new-dwarfs use them still), etc. can only be fielded as mercenaries from a different world or summoned units (in case of most special characters, there is even a picture of a Teclis painted in ghost colors)
- the tech level is between and ancient roman empire and early medieval times, lots of nomadic barbarian tribes, etc. But judging by to the age of sigmar miniatures the armour design draws only a little bit from history and is has a very stylized high-fantasy design instead
- there are lots of different people, races, gods and lots of different alliances. The world is a lot more open minded than the old one, Empire-Orc Alliance would be unthinkable, but a human-waaghkin force is nothing unusual in this setting
Army building
- you pick one or more gods that determine the theurgic or magic schools (don’t know what the difference is, sorry) you can use and how your champions get power-ups during the game. You can take several gods, but they have to be from the same pantheon - so no nurgle-sigmar armies, but Nagash-Morr is possible.Then you choose whichever unit you want - from every race. There is no limit as far as I can tell.
- The only mechanic that I have spotted that limits the useful choices somehow is that most spells and special rules only affect units with certain traits, the powers of Grimgor (magic and gods are always connected, each lore has a patron god that grants the power) affects only mortals or enemy units in the proximity of mortals.
- There are only rules for one pantheon in the rule book, all the other gods and pantheons are only mentioned in the fluff
- Guardians of Regalia, a conglomerate native spirits and gods and lately some new gods, the incarnates Grimgor, Gelt and Nagash, there are thousand of gods and their relevance changes over time and in different regions, but there are seven big gods that have seven schools of magic associated with them and have rules in the book
- Geshemet or Gesheket or something like this (male and female, fertility, natural disaster) is the head of the pantheon, the other six gods are dual pair of good and evil:
two death gods: Nagahs and Morr
two smith and labour gods: Hashut and Gelt
two war gods: Grimgor and Myrmidia
- five other pantheon get a page of fluff each, and additional minor pantheons/deities are mentioned in the fluff. The big five are Chaos, Sigmar, Cuth’adai (elven gods), Exoatl (old ones) and the triumvi-rats (Horned Rat + 2 more)
- all characters can earn favor of their gods and get promoted just like the chaos champions until they reach apotheosis, this is also a huge mechanic in the game + you can field gods or at least their avatars, but only three incarnates have rules in the book
Rules
- there is only one ruleset (don’t know what is in the AoS box, but in the book there is no distinction between skirmish mode and battle mode or something like this)
- rules have nothing to do with the old warhammer rules,
- profile is: Melee, Range, Might, Armour, Initiative, Resolve, Wounds, values from 1-6, lower is better
- simple turn sequence: initiative -> player 1 unit 1 moves, shoots, casts -> p1 unit 2 moves, shoots, casts -> ... -> player 2 moves, shoots, casts -> melee
- players roll always against each other, for example Melee vs Initiative and Range vs Initiative, Might vs Armour
- units regenerate all lost wounds at the end of the phase
- both sides in a melee fight simultaneously, winner can roll to fight instantaneously another round until one side is extinct or one side chooses to break from the combat
- there is no moral system or combat resolution whatsoever, but unit can be bounced back
- units use a 1” 40k formation without any facing
- magic spells are all one-use only, when you use it, you have to discard the card
- you can collect ascension points throughout the game and spend the point to buff your champions, mechanic depends on your god(s)
- unit costs points as before, you are not allowed to field multiple units of the same kind unless the former unit have full strength - there are all kinds of unit sizes from 1-3 to 3-15 (that’s the highest I have seen), but you can field lots of different 1-man units
- you don’t buy champions, a set number of models are automatically upgraded to champions, but you cannot exceed the limit
- there are rules for different weapons, magic items, war engines, monsters, special rules, etc and a large section for scenarios and terrain, larger than the actual rules
Age of Sigmar box content:
Extrapolated from the pictures, they are the only new models. If you think you get 3-5 UNITS for each side, you are wrong. you get 10-15 (haven’t counted) CHARACTERS per side. Each model is really individual and it is in no way possible to field the majority of them as a visual coherent unit. It is late and this summary is long as it is, so I make this brief, but I will come back later and add some info on the miniatures. Chaos looks very similar to the old style except the berserkers, the Sigmarite Force is completely different.
Missionary Force:
3 Knights of the Order of Sigmars Blood, Roman looking armour but more bulky, leather Bands, swords and teardrop-shaped shields, champion is a woman
a pair of vigilantes: Male and female, leathercloaked, tricorn, 2 hand-crossbows
a hand full of heavy armoured warrior with different weapons and cloaks, almost knightly in appearance but completely over the top bulky, some have eagleshaped helmets
One hooded, chainmail wearing, hammer wielding girl
a bulldog
standard bearer: naked, chains that are hooked into the flesh, very archaic looking
one arabic looking guy with a two-handed scimitar and full armour
one guy in rags that wields a chain that burns at both ends, very impractical looking
Chaos Cult:
two outriders, basically chaos barbarians as we know them, but female
~5 berserkers: african looking, no armour, barefeet, clad in cloth stripes, two axes, bald and gaunt looking, not overly muscular, bone chain, both male and female
three pristesses: flowing robes, sacrifical ziggzagged daggers, skullmasks
two armoured harpies with spears and shields, crooked looking, feathered wings
at least five chaos warriors similar in appearance to the old chaos warriors, very dynamic fur cloaks and poses, one of them bigger on a larger base, all male as far as I could see
one large bloodletter, almost twice the size of a human
the leader has armour that looks like a chaos dwarfish, very babylonic, rides a demonwolf, a juggernaut, but with flesh and fur and spikes
some more viking-like infantry but with more chainmail
That’s only a broad description. Every model is highly individual.
Sorry for the chaotic nature of the info, I spent the evening writing this in a very fast manner. This is only the tip of the iceberg and I will come back with a little bit more soon - hopefully in a more ordered fashion. If you have a questions or need specifics and a topic, feel free to ask, maybe I remember something of use.
Iiiinteresting....seems a bit of a stretch in a lot of ways but I would still preorder that.
I'm looking for a way to play fantasy is a smaller more narrative way and this seems like it might work. He said all models will be round bases tho so I'm not rebases my 400-500+ skaven models...and it makes me sad if I can't use them all!
We will see when we get some pictures or more solid rumours what happens but km genuinely excited about it!
Man, I hope that's not true. That is the worst piece of crap I ever heard. I was excited for an excuse to get into fantasy. Generic 4th edition d&d world of Warcraft angular triangle armour fest high magic bs most certainly is not that.
Doubting the rumor for one simple reason. He quotes there being artwork without a supporting miniature. As we have seen in a post-CHS, GW doesn't release any artwork that doesn't have a supporting miniature released at the same time.
From that standpoint I would be shocked if this turns out to be true.
If I were using say, 20 skeleton warriors, a liche priest, a tomb prince, a catapult, and maybe one necroknight or one giant, I could have a lot of fun with that.
Assuming for a moment that's not a hoax, it sounds like it could be a very interesting world, even if it's very obviously been written almost entirely under the lash of a sales executive who wanted minimal barriers to Unbound-style "buy what you want, use it how you want!(but mostly the buying part)" shenanigans.
What it isn't is Warhammer. It sounds like exactly what I was afraid it would be; WoWWarmaHammer Bigpauldrons The Third, esq wearing the loosely-fitting rags of skin stripped from Warhammer Fantasy Battle's carcass and shouting "No really guv, I'm Warhammer honest I is, I is. Look; 'Sigmar', 'Cathay', 'Morr'! Those are things that were things, innit!"
Pass. If it goes that way I'll check in every so often to see if there's any models that might work as fodder for INQ28 or Mordheim conversions, but there is nothing in that atrocious list of Young Adult Fiction drek that makes me desirous of Newhammer Fantasy Mashup.
Chopxsticks wrote: Anyone seen the reddit post from the "fired" Bethesda employee who claimed to have all the know about Fallout 4?
The ones who were mostly right? They were wrong about only being able to play a male character, but it's not hard to imagine someone making that mistake when the female PC got about 5 seconds of screen time to the male PC's 17 minutes in the E3 presentation.
What Sina is saying certainly sounds insane but so did the End Times, and that turned out to be true.
Iiiinteresting....seems a bit of a stretch in a lot of ways but I would still preorder that.
I'm looking for a way to play fantasy is a smaller more narrative way and this seems like it might work. He said all models will be round bases tho so I'm not rebases my 400-500+ skaven models...and it makes me sad if I can't use them all!
We will see when we get some pictures or more solid rumours what happens but km genuinely excited about it!
Sounds like 40k pancake edition.. GW, in my opinion, has no ability to make large scale changes to the rules of their games. Way too much creativity and thinking outside the box for this to be true.
I agree, that sounds like a giant mess. People will find ways to mix and match to create shockingly OP armies. Whereas players like me who play fluffy themed armies will have to be paranoid about who to play against.
That entire giant block of text is full of stuff that sounds like it was made up specifically to make people on the internet angry, which is why I think it's probably the world's most dedicated trolling.
Those rumours sound cool. Perhaps better than the real thing.
But the good guys of the starter really are Fantasy Space Marines for all intents. And nothing else. Even a bit broader than Space Marines, even a bit chubby looking. Models might make reasonable Adeptus Custodes conversions even. And they are all male of course.
Yup, sounds nothing like Warhammer but it does sound mildly interesting. From a modeling perspectie I'd be more than happy with such an offering, especially once boxes started getting parted out online.
We'll see though.
I hate stupid GW's absolute silence on everything rather than trying to get the world excited. Any other company would have been previewing the crap out of this through every available channel so far.
Sounds like it was made into a pretty generic D&D type setting, designed to offer lots of chances for high adventure, not just being slaughtered all the time. GW going full noblebright? I don't hate this.
Add the blatant critique of the tendency of monotheistic religions to declare themselves the sole arbiters of good and justice, and I'm getting an 80s GW vibe from it.
His Master's Voice wrote: Well, at least the description of the box content makes me wish this was true.
Yeah, I'd buy the starter box just to paint the mini's. Though with that many female mini's and that much range I'm skeptical, to put it mildly. The rest of it seems pretty credible (in that it sounds awful).
mikhaila wrote: Or play the skirmish version with square bases. They said that was an option.
It sounds like that's the *only* option though. Why would anyone go for round bases if it makes them incompatible with the big game?
I'm pretty disappointed by the rumours so far (in that I'm not liking how the game is starting to look).
mikhaila wrote: -The new system will have both Skirmish and large battle with ranked troops versions.
-Skirmish can use round or square. Large version is square.
-The round 32mm bases in the space marine boxes were originally made for WH:AoS, but the 40k studio guys liked the look and they fit space marines better.
-AOS box will have both round and square bases in the box.
No, no, no. No square bases, no rank and file, no two game systems.
-------------------------
I had the chance to look thoroughly through the proper Age of Sigmar rulebook (the one that consists of three books) yesterday evening. Spent my time with the three books and ignored the novel in favour of the real interesting things. So I cannot fill in the blanks there. But maybe I have the opportunity to look at the rulebook and novel again and hopefully the age of sigmar box, too. But now I have a way clearer picture what’s coming and I’d like to share with you because I am very (!!!) excited, but I cannot provide any photos for obvious reasons. So if you don’t believe me, I don’t blame you. But please don’t attack me personally.
wrote loads of stuff.............
.
thanks for this.....
All sounds quite interesting - I love Warhammer fluff and will continue to use and write stuff for it but I am interested in this quite a bit. Skirmish type games are often much more fun and in vogue at our club.
Any more info on Vampires - is Neferata or any of the others back?
If its not real - make a good world / kickstarter game
If the system goes round base will there be anyway to get old units?
My wife started a woodelf army before Christmas and has a few more units to go. We are fairly on the fence about AoS as we have a number of large 8th edition armies and don't want to see them shelved.
mikhaila wrote: -The new system will have both Skirmish and large battle with ranked troops versions.
-Skirmish can use round or square. Large version is square.
-The round 32mm bases in the space marine boxes were originally made for WH:AoS, but the 40k studio guys liked the look and they fit space marines better.
-AOS box will have both round and square bases in the box.
No, no, no. No square bases, no rank and file, no two game systems.
-------------------------
I had the chance to look thoroughly through the proper Age of Sigmar rulebook (the one that consists of three books) yesterday evening. Spent my time with the three books and ignored the novel in favour of the real interesting things. So I cannot fill in the blanks there. But maybe I have the opportunity to look at the rulebook and novel again and hopefully the age of sigmar box, too. But now I have a way clearer picture what’s coming and I’d like to share with you because I am very (!!!) excited, but I cannot provide any photos for obvious reasons. So if you don’t believe me, I don’t blame you. But please don’t attack me personally.
...
- units regenerate all lost wounds at the end of the phase
...
- magic spells are all one-use only, when you use it, you have to discard the card
...
undeads, deamons and spirits, and guardian hosts are used by every faction of the game, necromancy but not summoning is common in the dominion of Sigmar. The Inneadim are famous for their use of animated constructs. These things are not a big taboo in Regalia. However the most fearsome necromancers are (obviously) employed by the Empire of Nehekhara (which is not a desolate wasteland and has no egyptian vibe but is a rich and green country and feels more babylonian to me) and their death gods. But there is no Undead faction per se anymore. Vampires are called Necrarchs now.
...
Those two rules are crazy
And no undead faction per se? So, undead are now a weapon of good?
And Vampires are now only Necrarchs? What happened with the rest of the lines? Something is wrong here...
Most of the things you said, makes sense... But those two rules and what happens to the undead are strange things...
Maybe you didn't understood everything you read cause you didn't had time to read every page to the minimal detail
Let's wait and see but thank you for the spoiler.
P.S. IF there are only Necrarchs, how can we use our models of Nagash and Mortarchs? They are useless if that happens... And it was said that our models from the End of Times would still be used... It will be a big mistake from GW if they make the rules for undead like that...
I don't know how long I've got until they catch me, but at last, I can give everybody the info they need on Age of Sigmar.
I've never posted rumours before on Dakka, so imagine my surprise, when two nights ago, I got a late night phone call from one of my old 'Nam buddies.
Hand on heart, I thought he was looking for a loan, but he had an interesting story to tell.
As part of his job as a travelling asbestos salesman, he obviously gets around the country. 3 days ago, he stopped in Nottingham and decided to have a few drinks in the hotel bar. Somebody else was in there, somebody who looked depressed beyond measure. Being a compassionate human being, my friend got talking to him. Apparently, this person was a games designer for Games forge or something. He had just been fired, and the criticism he received for writing a book called 50 grey knights had really stung him. Please bear in mind there was a lot of alcohol consumed at this stage.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, my friend told me there was interesting info for me, and that I should collect it in a Nottingham park around midnight the next day.
So, I turned up, and there was a large envelope on a park bench. I grabbed it and ran off, but I'm pretty sure I seen a drone or something in the sky...
Make of this what you will, but I can reveal the following:
New version will be called Age of Sigmar: The Warhammer years.
It's not a skirmish game, or a full scale game like 8th. It's something in between that allows you to switch systems mid game. GW are calling it Skir-battle.
4 Chaos gods are back, and there is a new, 5th god called Y'B'R'I'K - the god of despair and no hope.
It's similar to unbound in 40k. You can pick what you want. Dwraves and goblins? It's allowed. High elves dark elves. No problem.
Rulebook comes in 3 versions: gold, silver, and bronze.
Bronze gives you rules for moving your troops and building army lists. You can't charge with bronze rules, but may fight if charged. Price £30/$50. Bronze version is unavailable in Australia.
Silver rules: As bronze, but with the ability to declare charges. Price: £40/$60 Silver version is unavailable in Australia.
Gold edition: As silver, but you can shoot with missile troops, cast spells, and place terrain on the table. Price: £50/$70. Available to Australia, but print only and ONLY 1000 copies to be made available from ONE shop in ALICE SPRINGS. . Australia doesn't have the web or something according to my source.
Army books are changing and this may annoy some people. All the old races are gone, but replaced with new races in army books.
Bronze rule books give you basic lists, but no options for extra equipment.. If you want heroes to lead your troops, you need silver and gold. You can purchase silver and gold mid game, so you can boost your troops at a crucial moment, giving you extra tactical options.
Example. Say you buy archers, but the bronze book doesn't give you bow options. You can still buy archers, and then mid game, upgrade to silver. This could catch your opponent off guard.
Base sizes are changing. Round and square are out. It's triangle bases.
Finally, the chapterhouse case has GW worried, so they're paranoid about copyright and people producing alternatives to their models, and this applies to the measuring system as well. GW have decided not to use metric or imperial, so there is a brand new unit of measurement in this rule book. It's micro fractions or something.
Anyway, If I get anymore info I'll post here, but I'm constantly looking over my shoulder on this one.
Grimtuff wrote: So, assuming this is true, what the hell has happened to my Ogres?
See my post above. Ogres start of as human in the bronze rules, but you can buy the upgrade mid-game to turn them into ogres. It's a supplement that costs £5.
Sad Panda wrote: Those rumours sound cool. Perhaps better than the real thing.
But the good guys of the starter really are Fantasy Space Marines for all intents. And nothing else. Even a bit broader than Space Marines, even a bit chubby looking. Models might make reasonable Adeptus Custodes conversions even. And they are all male of course.
Sad Panda denies? So basically confirmed that huge wall of text is bs. Too bad, it sounded cool...
And no undead faction per se? So, undead are now a weapon of good?
And Vampires are now only Necrarchs? What happened with the rest of the lines? Something is wrong here...
Some of the undead have always been much more shades of grey than the Hammer House of Evil of the later depictions of the Van Carsteins.
Really old fluff def has if not "good" then relatively benevolent vampires such as Genevieve (she did save the Emperor and seems to even got a bit part in the End times :0 ), certain areas of Kislev even used undead against the Chaos invaders..............given the fairly dark background they were not usually much worse than some of the Empires own nobility.
I would hope that its not just the Necrarch line that has survived - although they are the ones closest to Nagash so the ones he would likely bring back - Neferata and friends hated and feared him for the most part.
And no undead faction per se? So, undead are now a weapon of good?
And Vampires are now only Necrarchs? What happened with the rest of the lines? Something is wrong here...
Some of the undead have always been much more shades of grey than the Hammer House of Evil of the later depictions of the Van Carsteins.
Really old fluff def has if not "good" then relatively benevolent vampires such as Genevieve (she did save the Emperor and seems to even got a bit part in the End times :0 ), certain areas of Kislev even used undead against the Chaos invaders..............given the fairly dark background they were not usually much worse than some of the Empires own nobility.
I would hope that its not just the Necrarch line that has survived - although they are the ones closest to Nagash so the ones he would likely bring back - Neferata and friends hated and feared him for the most part.
Ok... But that wouldn't invalidate the use of the Mortarchs? I can't believe new models that were brought with the "End of Times" are going to be useless :/
And no undead faction per se? So, undead are now a weapon of good?
And Vampires are now only Necrarchs? What happened with the rest of the lines? Something is wrong here...
Some of the undead have always been much more shades of grey than the Hammer House of Evil of the later depictions of the Van Carsteins.
Really old fluff def has if not "good" then relatively benevolent vampires such as Genevieve (she did save the Emperor and seems to even got a bit part in the End times :0 ), certain areas of Kislev even used undead against the Chaos invaders..............given the fairly dark background they were not usually much worse than some of the Empires own nobility.
I would hope that its not just the Necrarch line that has survived - although they are the ones closest to Nagash so the ones he would likely bring back - Neferata and friends hated and feared him for the most part.
Ok... But that wouldn't invalidate the use of the Mortarchs? I can't believe new models that were brought with the "End of Times" are going to be useless :/
Mortarchs might be the Greater Daemons / Angels of Nagash?
Gaaaaaaaaghhh... Gork and Mork will not be pleased.
Other than that - sounds interesting, I guess? Not Warhammer, but not reprehensively vile.
FEMALE Orcs?! Gork & Mork planned this. NOW there will be some REAL FIGHT'IN!!!
As for 'peaceful' Orcs... that's just a male orc taktik for gettin' da she-orc angry...
Mortarchs might be the Greater Daemons / Angels of Nagash?
I can see that... But more like: Bodyguard of Nagash :p
But I'm also finding hard to believe about the magic being used only once... How could the undead army be strong if not being able to resurrect models every turn?
The basic mechanics (not so much the unbound thing) that SinaLeibniz posted sound like a step in the right direction.
But the only thing I liked about the proposed fluff is feathered raptors might be gaining one more tiny foothold against pop culture's resistance. Otherwise, whoever said it earlier was right: looks like it's going full-on World of Warmaconfrontation, with plenty of goofy names so that GW can continue to pretend to own elves and dwarfs and orcs.
plastictrees wrote:Three elves per base!
If you are talking about traysfor ranking up anyway then round/square/size isn't super relevant.
It is if Warhammer keeps the old big battle version which relies on cramming as many individual models' attacks into the front rank as possible.
Mortarchs might be the Greater Daemons / Angels of Nagash?
I can see that... But more like: Bodyguard of Nagash :p
But I'm also finding hard to believe about the magic being used only once... How could the undead army be strong if not being able to resurrect models every turn?
Maybe it will be that you can only do it once per game so its tactical and/or rank and file undead are cheap, or just really hard to kill.
Often in the old fluff - they tended to have a big cinematic moment when a great horde is raised
Zombies (and similar) might be (this versions equivalent) of T5 with a ward save to represent that you have to stab them in the head and that they get back up unless you do.
Skeletons might be relative good in a fight - quick and agile - Harryhausen style.
Perhaps it will have a rule that every model that the undead kill has a chance of becoming a Zombie.
Chopxsticks wrote: Anyone seen the reddit post from the "fired" Bethesda employee who claimed to have all the know about Fallout 4?
The ones who were mostly right? They were wrong about only being able to play a male character, but it's not hard to imagine someone making that mistake when the female PC got about 5 seconds of screen time to the male PC's 17 minutes in the E3 presentation.
What Sina is saying certainly sounds insane but so did the End Times, and that turned out to be true.
Yeah but you have to have no idea about the whole Fallout franchise, or how Bethesda makes games to believe that it will not have both sexes playable.
Maybe it will be that you can only do it once per game so its tactical and/or rank and file undead are cheap, or just really hard to kill.
Often in the old fluff - they tended to have a big cinematic moment when a great horde is raised
Zombies (and similar) might be (this versions equivalent) of T5 with a ward save to represent that you have to stab them in the head and that they get back up unless you do.
Skeletons might be relative good in a fight - quick and agile - Harryhausen style.
Perhaps it will have a rule that every model that the undead kill has a chance of becoming a Zombie.
Lots of fun ways to do it I think..............
Undead with ward saves would be crazy
Maybe we get some magic with Vampires+Undeath lores? This way, we would had 4 or 5 spells that could bring back the dead... And we would had access to all magic spells in that lore instead of using only one for each magic level of the wizard...
And I only can see the "one use only" if it is like this: "You can only successfully cast it once".
If not, then you try to use the spell once, it gets dispelled and the magic phase becomes really bad...
Maybe it will be that you can only do it once per game so its tactical and/or rank and file undead are cheap, or just really hard to kill.
Often in the old fluff - they tended to have a big cinematic moment when a great horde is raised
Zombies (and similar) might be (this versions equivalent) of T5 with a ward save to represent that you have to stab them in the head and that they get back up unless you do.
Skeletons might be relative good in a fight - quick and agile - Harryhausen style.
Perhaps it will have a rule that every model that the undead kill has a chance of becoming a Zombie.
Lots of fun ways to do it I think..............
Undead with ward saves would be crazy
Maybe we get some magic with Vampires+Undeath lores? This way, we would had 4 or 5 spells that could bring back the dead... And we would had access to all magic spells in that lore instead of using only one for each magic level of the wizard...
And I only can see the "one use only" if it is like this: "You can only successfully cast it once".
If not, then you try to use the spell once, it gets dispelled and the magic phase becomes really bad...
Yeah maybe but like I say there are lots of ways to do this - make it a rule about zombies being raised for every kill as long as your have a necromancer (or Vampire etc) on the table - keep Crumble.
This way you keep the flavour but can keep the magic for other stuff?
I wonder what would happen to bound items if the one use rule for magic spells turns out to be true. Will they go up in points and be the only way to cast spells more than once, be reduced in points to compensate for the once per game, or if they will be removed. Of course knowing GW they very well may just copy paste them in with no thought on how the value of the item has changed
Yeah maybe but like I say there are lots of ways to do this - make it a rule about zombies being raised for every kill as long as your have a necromancer (or Vampire etc) on the table - keep Crumble.
This way you keep the flavour but can keep the magic for other stuff?
With "each would you make" instead of "each kill" I would say: Wow!!!! That would make the vampire a machine of rising undead...
How many wound you did this turn with all your army? 10? 10 new skellies/zombies it is...
Death Magic, Terrorgheist, half the special units, the vampire and the units that we use to hunt machines would give us a significant number of models each turn
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jaceevoke wrote: I wonder what would happen to bound items if the one use rule for magic spells turns out to be true. Will they go up in points and be the only way to cast spells more than once, be reduced in points to compensate for the once per game, or if they will be removed. Of course knowing GW they very well may just copy paste them in with no thought on how the value of the item has changed
Dunno if you read some theories we are discussing here, but if the "one use rule for magic spells" would be "one use only of a successful cast spell" I think it wouldn't be bad enough...
And yes... One use only, would sure needs to be spells that would care for less points to cast and/or with the same points, cast augmented spells, to be fair...
They now have three gods called the triumvi-rat...
Oh, no... Triumvirate, maybe? Please don't let it be triumvi-rat...
I hesitate to call BS because of the wall of text... Do people really go that far to troll the boards? Seems like you could cause just as much havoc with a third of that and then have time to go kick puppies or something (NOT saying THIS poster would do such a thing or even that THIS poster is trolling... Just seems like something that someone who would do this also might enjoy).
If this is true, I'm not sure how I feel. I guess we'll know more in a few weeks...
No one noticed that the turn sequence changed from YGIG to unit activation? That's huge, if true.
Nigmos.
Also, some of it sounds a bit odd, but some of it sounds entirely plausible. Remember, IP protection and sales are now GW's overarching concerns. Change all the names! Use all the models! Also remember that this is a German speaker posting in English. There will be some contextual mistakes.
Nigmos.
Here's the problem with Nigmos. Here in the States, most white people don't like using a word, even perfectly reasonable English words (let alone madeup words), with the first three letters being "nig." Call it what you will, white guilt or PC nonsense. There will be no Nigmos in my Warhamer Fan... er... Age of Sigmar games. I will refer to them as Orcs and "these guys over here."
If these new rumours are true... Well, then... Ugh.
What has been described sounds like a really ham fisted attempt to carry forward some of their existing IP into a new one. They've carried forward some warhammer names and ideas, but in doing so, detached them from the things that made them what they were. It's "Empire," but it isn't. They're orcs! (But not really). Etc.
I'm prepared to play provided that my existing models have use, but if the game asks me to make a sudden large new investment, I'm out. If I were going to do that, I'd probably just start playing a non-GW game like infinity.
No one noticed that the turn sequence changed from YGIG to unit activation? That's huge, if true.
Nigmos.
Also, some of it sounds a bit odd, but some of it sounds entirely plausible. Remember, IP protection and sales are now GW's overarching concerns. Change all the names! Use all the models! Also remember that this is a German speaker posting in English. There will be some contextual mistakes.
Nigmos.
Here's the problem with Nigmos. Here in the States, most white people don't like using a word, even perfectly reasonable English words (let alone madeup words), with the first three letters being "nig." Call it what you will, white guilt or PC nonsense. There will be no Nigmos in my Warhamer Fan... er... Age of Sigmar games. I will refer to them as Orcs and "these guys over here."
So in the US what comes after the day? And what do you call bad dreams? And what do you call that African country presided by Muhammadu Buhari?
I don't think the name is as much of a problem as they're basically trying to take concepts they took from other places and pretend they created them from scratch.
GW: "These aren't orcs, they're nigmos!"
Players: "Uh, they're just the old Orc models you used to sell."
GW: "What are orcs? You mean the orks we have in our unique game Warhammer 40,000? Those are the only ORKS we sell! Nigmos are an entirely new concept!"
I agree, that sounds like a giant mess. People will find ways to mix and match to create shockingly OP armies. Whereas players like me who play fluffy themed armies will have to be paranoid about who to play against.
It'll get cranked up to 11 once you factor in formation using 40k as an example. Take 2 units of Empire crossbow plus one unit of spearmen and everyone is t4 for free. If you take two of those, you additionally get a cannon at no charge. (Example, not a rumor)
There's not even the slightest whiff this new background is coming to 40k is there? I feel like they're turning Fantasy into World of Warcraft the tabletop game or something.
I don't understand why'd they overhaul the background this severely as not all of it could have been threatened by copyright issues? If that was even the driving issue?
Perhaps they just wanted the background between fantasy and 40k to be significantly different?
So in the US what comes after the day? And what do you call bad dreams? And what do you call that African country presided by Muhammadu Buhari?
Because those all have a "nye" sound, not "nig". People have been fired or gotten in trouble for using the word "niggardly" though, despite it having no etymological relation to the n-word. So it's not a far stretch to think that calling something "nig-whatever" is going to cause some kind of trouble.
the_Armyman wrote: No one noticed that the turn sequence changed from YGIG to unit activation? That's huge, if true.
The wording on that wasn't very clear, but I thought it was just that each unit was activated fully before moving on to the next (with combat at the end) rather than individual phases. YGIG / alternating activations could be cool, though!
Anyway, that's one place the rumors above certainly do ring true - the almost frantic need to come up with 'new' names in order to TM and R the holy hell out of everything...
Nvs wrote: There's not even the slightest whiff this new background is coming to 40k is there?
Remember that in order to institute this in Fantasy they had to cram in the End Times. It wasn't easy to engineer a new giant undead invasion (necrons awakening), the destruction of elven homeland (the eldar fall), and a massive chaos invasion lead by a champion of all the chaos gods (abaddon's 13th crusade) in order to get the fluff minutes before midnight on the doomsday clock. So basically if 40k sales continue to drop, we are one marketing decision (because who needs the design studio) away from something like this.
Anyway, that's one place the rumors above certainly do ring true - the almost frantic need to come up with 'new' names in order to TM and R the holy hell out of everything...
If he counts snark as rumor, I'll end up with alot of pessimistic positives in the long run as GW gets more desperate.
The rules the guy stated in that giant post seem very similar to the lord of the rings rules, which are a good set of rules (just not super deep in my opinion) so I wouldn't be upset with those rules.
Read that they won't be restocking the old army books once they sell out of them so I'm kind of thinking I should buy every army book I want just in case....but that seems like a bad idea until it comes out. I did just pick up the hard back version of Thanqoul (since its still available on the GW website) so I'm good with that finally some kind of skaven hardback lol
Anyway, that's one place the rumors above certainly do ring true - the almost frantic need to come up with 'new' names in order to TM and R the holy hell out of everything...
I did add the Liebniz guy though.
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warboss wrote: If he counts snark as rumor, I'll end up with alot of pessimistic positives in the long run as GW gets more desperate.
If I tracked snark as rumors, I would have died from over work by now.
So in the US what comes after the day? And what do you call bad dreams? And what do you call that African country presided by Muhammadu Buhari?
Because those all have a "nye" sound, not "nig". People have been fired or gotten in trouble for using the word "niggardly" though, despite it having no etymological relation to the n-word. So it's not a far stretch to think that calling something "nig-whatever" is going to cause some kind of trouble.
I had a quick read-through this. I didn't read it too carefully since there's a lot there and it is worthy of lots of salt. I suspect that, much like other highly detailed accounts of new rules books I've seen in the past (such as a similar post that cropped-up when 7th edition 40K was close) it is probably founded in fact but far from 100% accurate. Perhaps he looked at an early draft and some things didn't pan out in the final version.
I have very mixed feelings about what I read. Overall, it sounds like it could work and be a good step in the right direction to reinvigorating Warhammer. However, the two things I really don't like and hope are not true is the abandonment of WS, BS, S, T, &c. as well as an abandonment of morale/psychology. Those two things were the #1 draws for me to Warhammer back in 1999 when I first took the plunge and bought the 5th edition starter box. To take away those two things would really gut the game for me because that's what set Warhammer apart.
So if that's true, I will definitely be sticking with 6th Edition (or possibly 8th) for all my games with family and friends, but I would not be adverse to picking up the basic rules so that we can occasionally partake of games or tournaments at the local gaming shop. But Warhammer is what I love so that will remain my bread-and-butter.
On the other hand, I can see potential in the dark ages/early medieval tech versus later medieval/steam-punk. It seems to me that late Roman/Dark Ages/early Medieval is far less common. Seems like all the competitors, especially Wormahordes, are all about the steam punk and late medieval/weird advanced tech mashup. This could be refreshing. Sounds a lot more hero hammer than I'd have expected though. Colour me intrigued.
If they retain the WS, BS, S, T, et al., I would be more inclined to go "whole hog" and use Age of Sigmar both at home and abroad. Time will tell. Either way my purchasing/modelling is unlikely to be much impacted.
What doesn't ring true for me is that the rumored rules seem to be a mishmash of other systems. Morale and "regenerating at the end of the turn" sounds like Nerve or whatever in Mantic's KoW.
The world fluff feels like the PC game Eador, the broken world or the Warlock game.
agnosto wrote: What doesn't ring true for me is that the rumored rules seem to be a mishmash of other systems. Morale and "regenerating at the end of the turn" sounds like Nerve or whatever in Mantic's KoW.
The world fluff feels like the PC game Eador, the broken world or the Warlock game.
Personally, I think these rumours are total hogwash, because no company would introduce such a kamikaze background and gaming system...but then again, it's GW
So in the US what comes after the day? And what do you call bad dreams? And what do you call that African country presided by Muhammadu Buhari?
Because those all have a "nye" sound, not "nig". People have been fired or gotten in trouble for using the word "niggardly" though, despite it having no etymological relation to the n-word. So it's not a far stretch to think that calling something "nig-whatever" is going to cause some kind of trouble.
Anyway, that's one place the rumors above certainly do ring true - the almost frantic need to come up with 'new' names in order to TM and R the holy hell out of everything...
I did add the Liebniz guy though.
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warboss wrote: If he counts snark as rumor, I'll end up with alot of pessimistic positives in the long run as GW gets more desperate.
If I tracked snark as rumors, I would have died from over work by now.
Pretre I don't think we say this enough but you are a true patron of the community and the hobby, kudos.
No one noticed that the turn sequence changed from YGIG to unit activation? That's huge, if true.
Nigmos.
Also, some of it sounds a bit odd, but some of it sounds entirely plausible. Remember, IP protection and sales are now GW's overarching concerns. Change all the names! Use all the models! Also remember that this is a German speaker posting in English. There will be some contextual mistakes.
Nigmos.
Here's the problem with Nigmos. Here in the States, most white people don't like using a word, even perfectly reasonable English words (let alone madeup words), with the first three letters being "nig." Call it what you will, white guilt or PC nonsense. There will be no Nigmos in my Warhamer Fan... er... Age of Sigmar games. I will refer to them as Orcs and "these guys over here."
This is an odd change in name for them and I agree they will remain Orcs as far as I am concerned.
There is also the option of a slight pronunciation difference that seems to be all too common in GWs games. So instead of pronouncing the "i" as in "pig" pronounce it with an "e" sound as in "leg".
SinaLeibniz wrote: Army building - you pick one or more gods that determine the theurgic or magic schools (don’t know what the difference is, sorry) you can use and how your champions get power-ups during the game. You can take several gods, but they have to be from the same pantheon - so no nurgle-sigmar armies, but Nagash-Morr is possible.Then you choose whichever unit you want - from every race. There is no limit as far as I can tell. - The only mechanic that I have spotted that limits the useful choices somehow is that most spells and special rules only affect units with certain traits, the powers of Grimgor (magic and gods are always connected, each lore has a patron god that grants the power) affects only mortals or enemy units in the proximity of mortals. - There are only rules for one pantheon in the rule book, all the other gods and pantheons are only mentioned in the fluff
Etc, etc, etc.
Curiously enough, I've recently been looking into the Of Gods and Mortals fantasy skirmish system, as I heard good things and if Fantasy heads that way, why not shop around? Anyway, this big wall of rumors sounds a whole lot like OGAM 2.0 - which would actually be really cool for OGAM, which IMO is a little too simple for my tastes as it is. But Warhams? I doubt it. Though the poster being German certainly adds some cred
(If you're curious about OGAM, this site is a pretty good place to get started.)
I had the chance to look thoroughly through the proper Age of Sigmar rulebook (the one that consists of three books) yesterday evening. Spent my time with the three books and ignored the novel in favour of the real interesting things. So I cannot fill in the blanks there. But maybe I have the opportunity to look at the rulebook and novel again and hopefully the age of sigmar box, too. But now I have a way clearer picture what’s coming and I’d like to share with you because I am very (!!!) excited, but I cannot provide any photos for obvious reasons. So if you don’t believe me, I don’t blame you. But please don’t attack me personally.
- Title of the rulebook is: Age of Sigmar: a Warhammer strategy game
- first the basics (most of which are already known):
- full fledged rule system; no skirmish game - meaning not restricted to low miniature count: 50 models on average, way lower possible, in general you use units but you can field an army consisting of only single models
- everything is on round or oval bases (there paragraph that explicitly allows legacy and diorama bases, though);
- 2 books: the rules (rules and scenarios) and compendium (pictures, unit cards and fluff)
- there are unit cards for every (as far as I can see) old unit in the second book, including warhammer forge models and most or all special characters. Some units get the full treatment with a small fluff text, pictures of the actual miniatures and rules, some units get only rules with nothing more.
- all new rules with complete new mechanics: think not of 40k 2nd -> 3rd but Warhammer 8th -> Bloodbowl, very compact and fast paced, huge emphasis on individual champions, magic and gods (don’t know how powerful, but these have the most rule pages)
- no photos (and no artworks except some very generic drawings) of new miniatures except a couple chaos and human miniatures that are very likely from the Age of Sigmar box.
- all the races are in, but some are clearly favored. There are few pictures of beastmen and lizardmen for example and some units like steamtanks, gunpowder units (Skaven and new-dwarfs use them still), etc. can only be fielded as mercenaries from a different world or summoned units (in case of most special characters, there is even a picture of a Teclis painted in ghost colors)
- the tech level is between and ancient roman empire and early medieval times, lots of nomadic barbarian tribes, etc. But judging by to the age of sigmar miniatures the armour design draws only a little bit from history and is has a very stylized high-fantasy design instead
- there are lots of different people, races, gods and lots of different alliances. The world is a lot more open minded than the old one, Empire-Orc Alliance would be unthinkable, but a human-waaghkin force is nothing unusual in this setting
Army building
- you pick one or more gods that determine the theurgic or magic schools (don’t know what the difference is, sorry) you can use and how your champions get power-ups during the game. You can take several gods, but they have to be from the same pantheon - so no nurgle-sigmar armies, but Nagash-Morr is possible.Then you choose whichever unit you want - from every race. There is no limit as far as I can tell.
- The only mechanic that I have spotted that limits the useful choices somehow is that most spells and special rules only affect units with certain traits, the powers of Grimgor (magic and gods are always connected, each lore has a patron god that grants the power) affects only mortals or enemy units in the proximity of mortals.
- There are only rules for one pantheon in the rule book, all the other gods and pantheons are only mentioned in the fluff
- Guardians of Regalia, a conglomerate native spirits and gods and lately some new gods, the incarnates Grimgor, Gelt and Nagash, there are thousand of gods and their relevance changes over time and in different regions, but there are seven big gods that have seven schools of magic associated with them and have rules in the book
- Geshemet or Gesheket or something like this (male and female, fertility, natural disaster) is the head of the pantheon, the other six gods are dual pair of good and evil:
two death gods: Nagahs and Morr
two smith and labour gods: Hashut and Gelt
two war gods: Grimgor and Myrmidia
- five other pantheon get a page of fluff each, and additional minor pantheons/deities are mentioned in the fluff. The big five are Chaos, Sigmar, Cuth’adai (elven gods), Exoatl (old ones) and the triumvi-rats (Horned Rat + 2 more)
- all characters can earn favor of their gods and get promoted just like the chaos champions until they reach apotheosis, this is also a huge mechanic in the game + you can field gods or at least their avatars, but only three incarnates have rules in the book
Rules
- there is only one ruleset (don’t know what is in the AoS box, but in the book there is no distinction between skirmish mode and battle mode or something like this)
- rules have nothing to do with the old warhammer rules,
- profile is: Melee, Range, Might, Armour, Initiative, Resolve, Wounds, values from 1-6, lower is better
- simple turn sequence: initiative -> player 1 unit 1 moves, shoots, casts -> p1 unit 2 moves, shoots, casts -> ... -> player 2 moves, shoots, casts -> melee
- players roll always against each other, for example Melee vs Initiative and Range vs Initiative, Might vs Armour
- units regenerate all lost wounds at the end of the phase
- both sides in a melee fight simultaneously, winner can roll to fight instantaneously another round until one side is extinct or one side chooses to break from the combat
- there is no moral system or combat resolution whatsoever, but unit can be bounced back
- units use a 1” 40k formation without any facing
- magic spells are all one-use only, when you use it, you have to discard the card
- you can collect ascension points throughout the game and spend the point to buff your champions, mechanic depends on your god(s)
- unit costs points as before, you are not allowed to field multiple units of the same kind unless the former unit have full strength - there are all kinds of unit sizes from 1-3 to 3-15 (that’s the highest I have seen), but you can field lots of different 1-man units
- you don’t buy champions, a set number of models are automatically upgraded to champions, but you cannot exceed the limit
- there are rules for different weapons, magic items, war engines, monsters, special rules, etc and a large section for scenarios and terrain, larger than the actual rules
Setting
game is set on world Regalia that is connected with other young realms through portals of the old ones. Young realms are realms that were populated by the old creators and were guided on similar historical paths. They were untouched by chaos but this has changed since the arrival of sigmar (as a new faith) and archaon (as an actual emissary in flesh and blood)
there is no explanation (or just a brief one so that I have missed it) how this all came to be, just a description of the history of Regalia (and to a lesser extent some neighbouring realms)
On Regalia is dominated by hundreds of human kingdoms. Fast travel is possible through a number of stone circles that allows mages to open portal from one to another and a system of streams and seas under the earth that can be navigated by ship. There were a long period of peace curated by the Exoatl (Old Ones) that watched over the world from the North and Southpole. But then suddenly new faiths arrived, lots of human tribes started to pray to Sigmar and to conquer their neighbouring kingdoms. These lands are each independent, but are united in their faith to Sigmar. The history ends with the conquering of the Worlds Edge mountains and the crowning of the first emperor. At the same time, the first agents of Chaos arrived and began to corrupt the native people. A part of the Waaghkins rebelled against the old ones in favour of new gods, the Skaven arrived the first time, and in the south and east a death cult began to spread. The world is in turmoil. There are lots of unfinished story hooks so I think the story will be continued, but that might be wishful thinking.
humans are the majority in this world and they have kingdom and tribes everywhere, most of the known earth-inspired regions like cathay are there, but they are not described as fully flegded feudal nations but constantly changing petty empires and nomadic people ruled by warlords and champions of the gods. there are two factions of humans, the worshippers of sigmar and the polytheistic rest, both are not monocultural, but have different skin colors and cultures. Women fight beside men!
The dominion of sigmar is special, because they are the only ones that are reluctant to allow any other race than humans. They have only one god and their goal is to destroy all other gods and conquer their domains - for the greater good of the world of course. This has nothing in common with the Empire of the old world, except the heraldry, griffons are still en vogue. All tribes and city states and kingdoms are independent, the only common ground is their faith, the emperor is only a warlord with the purpose to expands the dominion towards the east. There a still knightly orders, zealots, witchhunters - so they retain some of their medieval flair but there are no state troops. There is no gunpowder, except from some dwarven imports, but they are known for using large warwaggons on their trek to the east. Kislec, Estalia, Araby, city states of Bretonnia, Norse and tribes of the Reiklands are part of the dominion. There are also some enclaves scattered across the world that are connected with magic portals
The Skaven arrived on their own on Regalia and are basically the same. Haven’t spent much time on them. They have now three gods called the triumvi-rat …..
Dawikorr (dwarfs) and Inneadim (elfs) have their own realms that are connected with Regalia. The Inneadim have outposts in America.
Dawikorr are only a legend on Regalia and nobody has seen them, but there are legends that they aid whorshippers of Sigmar in peril. They deliver the dominions of Sigmar with artifacts. They live underneath the world Karak Korr and guard the Soul Mill. Dawikorr have rules, so they can be fielded.
The Soul Mill is a huge machinery that allows minor deities to feed on the power of dead spirits or let them reincarnate or serve them as guardian hosts. It was built by the surviving dwarves of the old world on command of the Incarnates on a older machinery of the old ones. The dwarfs guard the soul mill and are aligned with Sigmar after the shattering of the Incarnates, but are under siege of the skaven that have found their way on this world and managed to steal two mighty souls that formed their new gods.
Inneadim whorship the dreamers, gods that have dreamt themselves, basically the elven gods. They live on their own world and protect the dreamchild. Under Araloth they founded enclaves on Regalia in search for the archelves, lost gods of their pantheon. They are a darker take on the elves, nightmare are as much part of their culture then dreams. They use necromancy and the death god Ynnead is at the centre of their pantheon. But they still live in symbiosis with the nature. The artwork shows an elf on a feathered mount, not like a chocobo, but more like a feathered raptor. the artbook shows pictures (and rules) from all existing elf armies.
Skaven and Dawikorr are the only races that use blackpowder, the rest of Regalia is on stuck on an ancient/medieval tech level. The Exoatl use magic techno gear. There is a certain level of anachronistic gear but it is not steampunk but powered by ancient magic. The only steampunk elements are in the Skaven and to a lesser extent the neo-dwarven fluff.
Chaos has no foothold in the north but is anywhere and consists of corrupted tribes and companies from every region of the world. The barbarian theme of the nomadic tribes is more associated with khorne than with chaos as a whole. Beastmen and demons are likely part of their faction because they are described in the same chapter (both in the fluff and unit cards), but demons can be summoned by everyone, so I don’t know for sure. And beastmen have very few pictures, so that’s a bad omen.
Waaghkins: orcs, goblins and are the servants of the old gods and live in a strict caste system, orcs are the manual laborers. There is a new race called nigmos: a tall and slender priest caste. Waaghkins travel the undersea, a system of flooded caverns that connects the whole world, on longboats and do the dirty work for the Exoatl. There is an artwork of the three different kinds of greenskins (no squigs and snotlings mentioned): an ork in very strange armour, very front heavy, textured like a symmetric turtle shell, he wields is an axe with multiple disc shape blades, goblin looked like a viking but has a futuristic looking handgun, the third was taller than a ork, female, slender - probably a nigmo. But in the photos of actual miniatures only show the old orc style. There is a subfaction of waaghkins that changed allegiance from the old gods to grimgor incarnate and are much more ferocious than their cousins.
undeads, deamons and spirits, and guardian hosts are used by every faction of the game, necromancy but not summoning is common in the dominion of Sigmar. The Inneadim are famous for their use of animated constructs. These things are not a big taboo in Regalia. However the most fearsome necromancers are (obviously) employed by the Empire of Nehekhara (which is not a desolate wasteland and has no egyptian vibe but is a rich and green country and feels more babylonian to me) and their death gods. But there is no Undead faction per se anymore. Vampires are called Necrarchs now.
Guardians hosts are troops that were granted by a god from another realm or the realm of the dead. They are living beings and have free will, but were brought to Regalia on the command of a deity.
- Lizardmen are not gone. There is a race called Servants of the Exoatl that guard the pole portals on flying pyramids, but no drawings and no fluff page (other races and tribess get at least half a page). They get unit cards for their old units (which confirms that they are simply lizardmen with a new name), but instead of beautiful pages with pictures like the rest of the bunch they get a simple list in the appendix of the compendium book.
Beastmen get the same lowkey treatment, but ogres get pictures and all, but I cannot say with which pantheon/faction they align. They are mortal, so you can use them in any the guardians of regalia army, but I don’t know if this is a stop gap solution or not.
Age of Sigmar box content:
Extrapolated from the pictures, they are the only new models. If you think you get 3-5 UNITS for each side, you are wrong. you get 10-15 (haven’t counted) CHARACTERS per side. Each model is really individual and it is in no way possible to field the majority of them as a visual coherent unit. It is late and this summary is long as it is, so I make this brief, but I will come back later and add some info on the miniatures. Chaos looks very similar to the old style except the berserkers, the Sigmarite Force is completely different.
Missionary Force:
3 Knights of the Order of Sigmars Blood, Roman looking armour but more bulky, leather Bands, swords and teardrop-shaped shields, champion is a woman
a pair of vigilantes: Male and female, leathercloaked, tricorn, 2 hand-crossbows
a hand full of heavy armoured warrior with different weapons and cloaks, almost knightly in appearance but completely over the top bulky, some have eagleshaped helmets
One hooded, chainmail wearing, hammer wielding girl
a bulldog
standard bearer: naked, chains that are hooked into the flesh, very archaic looking
one arabic looking guy with a two-handed scimitar and full armour
one guy in rags that wields a chain that burns at both ends, very impractical looking
Chaos Cult:
two outriders, basically chaos barbarians as we know them, but female
~5 berserkers: african looking, no armour, barefeet, clad in cloth stripes, two axes, bald and gaunt looking, not overly muscular, bone chain, both male and female
three pristesses: flowing robes, sacrifical ziggzagged daggers, skullmasks
two armoured harpies with spears and shields, crooked looking, feathered wings
at least five chaos warriors similar in appearance to the old chaos warriors, very dynamic fur cloaks and poses, one of them bigger on a larger base, all male as far as I could see
one large bloodletter, almost twice the size of a human
the leader has armour that looks like a chaos dwarfish, very babylonic, rides a demonwolf, a juggernaut, but with flesh and fur and spikes
some more viking-like infantry but with more chainmail
That’s only a broad description. Every model is highly individual.
Absolutely no clue what to make of this Some of it sounds really great imo, other bits not so much.
Its one hell of a change however if it is true, Basically an entirely new game for Fantasy. Im kinda excited.
So in the US what comes after the day? And what do you call bad dreams? And what do you call that African country presided by Muhammadu Buhari?
Because those all have a "nye" sound, not "nig". People have been fired or gotten in trouble for using the word "niggardly" though, despite it having no etymological relation to the n-word. So it's not a far stretch to think that calling something "nig-whatever" is going to cause some kind of trouble.
I better make sure I don't have any niggling concerns when I next go to the US
Stop sniggering.
OOPS!
For the love of this website, can we please get back to the topic and stop ranting on about cultural vocabulary issues.
The text wall rules sound rubbish. Basically you'd end up getting almost every veteran to quit the game, which reduces the number of new players being introduced to the system.
So you get into combat, but regen all wounds, and combat continues until someone decides they've had enough and runs?
If it were a skirmish style game, I could perhaps see characters that are facing off against each other being limited to losing 1 wound per turn max, and the first to zero dies, or something in that vein. But entire units constantly going to full strength?
And for someone who "only had a short glance" at the book, the post is pretty detailed. I don't think I'd remember that many details after looking at a book for even 30 minutes straight.
And while it's not an absolute, but I always take rumors from brand new accounts with the largest grain of salt the Old Ones could fathom, especially when they are as radical as those presented here. If it was Harry or someone with a solid track record saying them, I'd be much more inclined to listen.
monders wrote: To those calling bull, do you honestly think someone would come up with all of that just troll half a dozen gorgnards?!
I'm not calling bull, because I completely believe GW will change the force selection to allow for Unbound Fantasy armies. Of that I believe he his 100% correct.
As for whether it's a "troll", you're new here, right?
There is also the option of a slight pronunciation difference that seems to be all too common in GWs games. So instead of pronouncing the "i" as in "pig" pronounce it with an "e" sound as in "leg".
That's not going to matter to a whole boat load of idiot players out there. I knew a guy once who insisted that Wyches were pronounced with a long I sound, regardless of my having had many discussions about them with a friend who worked in the studio and who, in particular, worked with the development of Dark Eldar back when 3rd first hit the scene. GW can pronounce it as if it were "Negmos" all they want, if they spell it with an I, a lot of slack-jaws are going to pronounce it that way.
monders wrote: To those calling bull, do you honestly think someone would come up with all of that just troll half a dozen gorgnards?!
I'm not calling bull, because I completely believe GW will change the force selection to allow for Unbound Fantasy armies. Of that I believe he his 100% correct.
As for whether it's a "troll", you're new here, right?
I will say this is real, because otherwise I don't want to think of one person that is obviously a lunatic walking free through the streets.* Because that is what it would take to make up something like that, it goes way beyond 'troll'.
* Unless people in white-padded cells now have access to a laptop and wi-fi
Well, if 40k pancake edition has taught me anything, it's that people will go to *any* level to troll others, even by making rule sets superior to GW's!
However, I do have a sneaking suspicion that this will be closer to the reality of the game.
As for alienating WHFB veterans, why should GW care? It's the vets' faults they didn't sustain the game well enough, they weren't buying before so GW will make sure they buy NOW! That'll teach 'em.
Just like making up a whole new ruleset and claiming it was 6th, just like that yeah, then some other magical people claiming it was a "test" set the design wanted to do "honest", people will go to any length to piss others off if they think it's funny.
My mind can't take in those rumours.. salt poisoning levels.. but if more female models did turn up.. especially Orcs, I'd be very willing to give it a try.
I heard the new ed will be the same as 40k rules, everything moves 6.1 inches and the new world will have 6 factions all released exclusively and only 2 copies sold only on the Isle of Man, 1 per customer sadly, also the magic phase is replaced by rhw "pray and roll" phase on a d99 chart, using exclusive d15's made only by gw and again only 230000 available, in Australia only, for $450 each.
In general so would I, the only reason I am giving it more than a second of my time is due to Hastings apparent comments.
Although he has noted a number of times he no longer has a vested interest in GW lines, so even with his comment, I still look at all and think, nah, no way.. GW can't be that desperate, that would obviously be a play for WoW and D&D fans.
Formosa wrote: Just like making up a whole new ruleset ...
Seriously dudes, it reads a lot like 'Of Gods and Mortals' combined with LotR and a little Fantasy. If he's making it up, it's not totally from scratch. And if this is how 9E is going to roll, then GeeDub isn't pulling these completely out of nowhere either - thankfully by all accounts OGAM is good fun?
warboss wrote: So basically if 40k sales continue to drop, we are one marketing decision (because who needs the design studio) away from something like this.
Which honestly makes this sound more like a hostage situation than anything else. The End Times and the Age of Sigmar was just GW showing they were serious.
Formosa wrote: I heard the new ed will be the same as 40k rules, everything moves 6.1 inches and the new world will have 6 factions all released exclusively and only 2 copies sold only on the Isle of Man, 1 per customer sadly, also the magic phase is replaced by rhw "pray and roll" phase on a d99 chart, using exclusive d15's made only by gw and again only 230000 available, in Australia only, for $450 each.
That's the level I hold the current rumours at.
I was with you up until the point where Austrailia got exclusives.....besides price hikes that is.
Formosa wrote: Just like making up a whole new ruleset ...
Seriously dudes, it reads a lot like 'Of Gods and Mortals' combined with LotR and a little Fantasy. If he's making it up, it's not totally from scratch. And if this is how 9E is going to roll, then GeeDub isn't pulling these completely out of nowhere either - thankfully by all accounts OGAM is good fun?
- Salvage
Thanks for injecting a bit of perspective, Salvage! Very curious to see your take (and Red_Zeke's if he resurfaces for the new edition!) on the ruleset once it's more fully spoilered.
What do you think Naggaroth was? Seriously, look at the maps, and it's clearly a distorted version of North America, just like you could look at the the rest of the WHFB map and see that they'd taken a map of the world and fiddled with it a bit.
What do you think Naggaroth was? Seriously, look at the maps, and it's clearly a distorted version of North America, just like you could look at the the rest of the WHFB map and see that they'd taken a map of the world and fiddled with it a bit.
These new rumours have me a little anxious. I have an Empire army and if my Empire army can no longer use gunpowder weapons or state troopers I guess that leaves me with my huntsmen, wizards and Knights :/
I have a little pool of money and GW vouchers set aside for AoS, and I do want to get into it because I chose WHFB to be the game I play in GWs and I have had lots of fun doing just that with my Empire dudes.
I will be very sad if my army is shelved. I thought Humans were the safest bet...
Bottle wrote: These new rumours have me a little anxious. I have an Empire army and if my Empire army can no longer use gunpowder weapons or state troopers I guess that leaves me with my huntsmen, wizards and Knights :/
I have a little pool of money and GW vouchers set aside for AoS, and I do want to get into it because I chose WHFB to be the game I play in GWs and I have had lots of fun doing just that with my Empire dudes.
I will be very sad if my army is shelved. I thought Humans were the safest bet...
You said nothing when they came for our square bases...
More inside info from my spy, this time stuffed through my letterbox a few hours ago. The info, not the spy
New realm to be called the realm of Matwardia. It's like an alternative version of Earth.
I was mislead about the rules being divided into Bronze, Silver, and Gold. There's two more levels - platinum, and ultimate. Ultimate is the only version going on sale in Australia, and only then from 17th January 1959, at precisely 19:43 hrs. GW's found a wormhole. Presumably, Australian gamers will have to do the same, or invent time travel.
Triangle bases are out - it's pentagons.
Bad news if you like using other company paints like Vallejo. The new rulebook has a built in sensor, and will automatically self-destruct if it detects models painted with non-citadel paints. According to my source, even if you have such models locked away, the sensor can still detect the paint on your hand, even if it's a tiny dot.
Some guy called Draigo makes an appearance. Any clues to who this may be? The name means nothing to me.
Spoiler:
Magic has been totally revamped. You get one lore with the rules, but the 47 other lores have to be purchased separately. £5/$10 per lore.
Game has been reduced to 4 turns, but the option's there to buy more turns mid-game. £10/$15 per turn.
Miscast is no longer two 6s. You have to roll a 1, then a 6 and a 3 to make 9, then a 6, then a 4. You get 1964, which is the year Tom Kirby was born.
Anyway, that's all I got. I'll keep the community posted if there's any further developments.
streetsamurai wrote: Darnok has pretty much said that these rumours are fake. Thsnks god
Which makes you question Hastings...
Indeed, although Hastings did say that he hasn't had as reliable a source more recently.
Hmm, well this whole situation has been interesting to say the least.
I also see that, with all of the 8th edition books being pulled, the Dwarfs and Wood Elves books lasted all of one year. Going for the record there alongside the new Imperial Knights book!
@Do_Not_Like_That: damn your "rumors"! They catch me with a hint of surprise and then the follow-up "damn!" Why can't I stay mad at you?
Here is the full Darnok quote:
"Just a few words of warnign about those "Dakka rumours": they sound nothing like what I've been told so far. No overlap with things that I have heard about, but lots of things that where not in that. I can not go into more detail, but to me it sounds like somebody either got a lot of things wrong, or stuff has just been made up. "
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: More inside info from my spy, this time stuffed through my letterbox a few hours ago. The info, not the spy
New realm to be called the realm of Matwardia. It's like an alternative version of Earth.
I was mislead about the rules being divided into Bronze, Silver, and Gold. There's two more levels - platinum, and ultimate. Ultimate is the only version going on sale in Australia, and only then from 17th January 1959, at precisely 19:43 hrs. GW's found a wormhole. Presumably, Australian gamers will have to do the same, or invent time travel.
Triangle bases are out - it's pentagons.
Bad news if you like using other company paints like Vallejo. The new rulebook has a built in sensor, and will automatically self-destruct if it detects models painted with non-citadel paints. According to my source, even if you have such models locked away, the sensor can still detect the paint on your hand, even if it's a tiny dot.
Some guy called Draigo makes an appearance. Any clues to who this may be? The name means nothing to me.
Spoiler:
Magic has been totally revamped. You get one lore with the rules, but the 47 other lores have to be purchased separately. £5/$10 per lore.
Game has been reduced to 4 turns, but the option's there to buy more turns mid-game. £10/$15 per turn.
Miscast is no longer two 6s. You have to roll a 1, then a 6 and a 3 to make 9, then a 6, then a 4. You get 1964, which is the year Tom Kirby was born.
Anyway, that's all I got. I'll keep the community posted if there's any further developments.
Accolade wrote: Well, if 40k pancake edition has taught me anything, it's that people will go to *any* level to troll others, even by making rule sets superior to GW's!
However, I do have a sneaking suspicion that this will be closer to the reality of the game.
You would be correct in that statement, except that the pancake edition wasn't just a troll attempt. I had it on good authority from someone in GW that it was actually a fan-made version that had been released onto the net. The guys responsible had made it for their gaming group, and had then contact GW because they were worried they were going to receive some kind of legal notice. GW told them of course not.
The cracker is that all through that gak-storm, where the 40k fan community tore itself asunder over the implications of the new system, GW saw all of that and didn't do a single thing to stop it (and the feeling I got from it also was that they actually found the whole thing rather amusing). All it would have taken was a single note on their web page.. If you ever wanted evidence that they don't give a flying gak about the fan and veteran community, that's it right there.
That's why you need to have a laugh on these threads, helps to lighten the mod.
These threads always follow a similar pattern. An announcement and 20 pages of discussion. Then boredom, as people wait for release date, then speculation, then speculation about speculation then the release date is here, and you get 50 pages of moans, and then another 50 pages of how 40k is totally broken, and then Whembley mentions Bill and Hilary Clinton
Anybody who follows the politics thread on the off-topic forum will know what I mean
Don't worry, mods, there is a point to this.
If we knew what was coming on 4th July, we could plan armies. We could build terrain in anticipation, buy more paints, get more hobby stuff, maybe even from GW.
People like Mikalia (sorry if there's a spelling error) could plan launch parties at their shops and create buzz and anticipation. Dakka could create a buzz, word would spread. There's chance that I would have kept my hobby budget for this version and bought it for old times' sake. Instead, that money is going on Flames of war. Because they told me what was coming this summer: Berlin.
In short, by acting like a 'normal' business, GW could have made a lot of money from AOS. But they'll flounder with this version, through their own self-inflicted stupidity, and that's a shame.
Also, thanks, Streetsamurai and Mutter, Darnok's post is interesting indeed.
Darnok
PENDING Warhammer Fantasy Rumors - June 2015
Just a few words of warnign about those "Dakka rumours": they sound nothing like what I've been told so far. No overlap with things that I have heard about, but lots of things that where not in that. I can not go into more detail, but to me it sounds like somebody either got a lot of things wrong, or stuff has just been made up.
Bottle wrote: These new rumours have me a little anxious. I have an Empire army and if my Empire army can no longer use gunpowder weapons or state troopers I guess that leaves me with my huntsmen, wizards and Knights :/
I have a little pool of money and GW vouchers set aside for AoS, and I do want to get into it because I chose WHFB to be the game I play in GWs and I have had lots of fun doing just that with my Empire dudes.
I will be very sad if my army is shelved. I thought Humans were the safest bet...
You said nothing when they came for our square bases...
You know nothing would make me happier than to spend the GW vouchers I got for my birthday on circle bases so I can lovingly rebase my entire army! :-p
Mutter wrote: Here is the full Darnok quote:
"Just a few words of warnign about those "Dakka rumours": they sound nothing like what I've been told so far. No overlap with things that I have heard about, but lots of things that where not in that. I can not go into more detail, but to me it sounds like somebody either got a lot of things wrong, or stuff has just been made up. "
Has Darnok posted anything that he's "been told so far"? I.e. is he offering any alternatives?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Storm of Magic have a bunch of statlines for non existent models that Warhammer Forge made? Like that rat looking lizard and fishy dragon?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Storm of Magic have a bunch of statlines for non existent models that Warhammer Forge made? Like that rat looking lizard and fishy dragon?
Storm of Magic was made when Warhammer Forge was just starting out.
Warhammer Forge themselves don't even sell the rules for anything that has a model and is still available; they have free PDFs instead.
Yes, but Storm of Magic is a core GW supplement, not a Forge World one. The statlines inside may or may not transfer to the new iteration of the game, so refuting the rumour based on WF models getting official entires is perhaps not the strongest line of argument.
mikhaila wrote: -The new system will have both Skirmish and large battle with ranked troops versions.
-Skirmish can use round or square. Large version is square.
-The round 32mm bases in the space marine boxes were originally made for WH:AoS, but the 40k studio guys liked the look and they fit space marines better.
-AOS box will have both round and square bases in the box.
No, no, no. No square bases, no rank and file, no two game systems.
-------------------------
I had the chance to look thoroughly through the proper Age of Sigmar rulebook (the one that consists of three books) yesterday evening. Spent my time with the three books and ignored the novel in favour of the real interesting things. So I cannot fill in the blanks there. But maybe I have the opportunity to look at the rulebook and novel again and hopefully the age of sigmar box, too. But now I have a way clearer picture what’s coming and I’d like to share with you because I am very (!!!) excited, but I cannot provide any photos for obvious reasons. So if you don’t believe me, I don’t blame you. But please don’t attack me personally.
- Title of the rulebook is: Age of Sigmar: a Warhammer strategy game
- first the basics (most of which are already known):
- full fledged rule system; no skirmish game - meaning not restricted to low miniature count: 50 models on average, way lower possible, in general you use units but you can field an army consisting of only single models
- everything is on round or oval bases (there paragraph that explicitly allows legacy and diorama bases, though);
- 2 books: the rules (rules and scenarios) and compendium (pictures, unit cards and fluff)
- there are unit cards for every (as far as I can see) old unit in the second book, including warhammer forge models and most or all special characters. Some units get the full treatment with a small fluff text, pictures of the actual miniatures and rules, some units get only rules with nothing more.
- all new rules with complete new mechanics: think not of 40k 2nd -> 3rd but Warhammer 8th -> Bloodbowl, very compact and fast paced, huge emphasis on individual champions, magic and gods (don’t know how powerful, but these have the most rule pages)
- no photos (and no artworks except some very generic drawings) of new miniatures except a couple chaos and human miniatures that are very likely from the Age of Sigmar box.
- all the races are in, but some are clearly favored. There are few pictures of beastmen and lizardmen for example and some units like steamtanks, gunpowder units (Skaven and new-dwarfs use them still), etc. can only be fielded as mercenaries from a different world or summoned units (in case of most special characters, there is even a picture of a Teclis painted in ghost colors)
- the tech level is between and ancient roman empire and early medieval times, lots of nomadic barbarian tribes, etc. But judging by to the age of sigmar miniatures the armour design draws only a little bit from history and is has a very stylized high-fantasy design instead
- there are lots of different people, races, gods and lots of different alliances. The world is a lot more open minded than the old one, Empire-Orc Alliance would be unthinkable, but a human-waaghkin force is nothing unusual in this setting
Army building
- you pick one or more gods that determine the theurgic or magic schools (don’t know what the difference is, sorry) you can use and how your champions get power-ups during the game. You can take several gods, but they have to be from the same pantheon - so no nurgle-sigmar armies, but Nagash-Morr is possible.Then you choose whichever unit you want - from every race. There is no limit as far as I can tell.
- The only mechanic that I have spotted that limits the useful choices somehow is that most spells and special rules only affect units with certain traits, the powers of Grimgor (magic and gods are always connected, each lore has a patron god that grants the power) affects only mortals or enemy units in the proximity of mortals.
- There are only rules for one pantheon in the rule book, all the other gods and pantheons are only mentioned in the fluff
- Guardians of Regalia, a conglomerate native spirits and gods and lately some new gods, the incarnates Grimgor, Gelt and Nagash, there are thousand of gods and their relevance changes over time and in different regions, but there are seven big gods that have seven schools of magic associated with them and have rules in the book
- Geshemet or Gesheket or something like this (male and female, fertility, natural disaster) is the head of the pantheon, the other six gods are dual pair of good and evil:
two death gods: Nagahs and Morr
two smith and labour gods: Hashut and Gelt
two war gods: Grimgor and Myrmidia
- five other pantheon get a page of fluff each, and additional minor pantheons/deities are mentioned in the fluff. The big five are Chaos, Sigmar, Cuth’adai (elven gods), Exoatl (old ones) and the triumvi-rats (Horned Rat + 2 more)
- all characters can earn favor of their gods and get promoted just like the chaos champions until they reach apotheosis, this is also a huge mechanic in the game + you can field gods or at least their avatars, but only three incarnates have rules in the book
Rules
- there is only one ruleset (don’t know what is in the AoS box, but in the book there is no distinction between skirmish mode and battle mode or something like this)
- rules have nothing to do with the old warhammer rules,
- profile is: Melee, Range, Might, Armour, Initiative, Resolve, Wounds, values from 1-6, lower is better
- simple turn sequence: initiative -> player 1 unit 1 moves, shoots, casts -> p1 unit 2 moves, shoots, casts -> ... -> player 2 moves, shoots, casts -> melee
- players roll always against each other, for example Melee vs Initiative and Range vs Initiative, Might vs Armour
- units regenerate all lost wounds at the end of the phase
- both sides in a melee fight simultaneously, winner can roll to fight instantaneously another round until one side is extinct or one side chooses to break from the combat
- there is no moral system or combat resolution whatsoever, but unit can be bounced back
- units use a 1” 40k formation without any facing
- magic spells are all one-use only, when you use it, you have to discard the card
- you can collect ascension points throughout the game and spend the point to buff your champions, mechanic depends on your god(s)
- unit costs points as before, you are not allowed to field multiple units of the same kind unless the former unit have full strength - there are all kinds of unit sizes from 1-3 to 3-15 (that’s the highest I have seen), but you can field lots of different 1-man units
- you don’t buy champions, a set number of models are automatically upgraded to champions, but you cannot exceed the limit
- there are rules for different weapons, magic items, war engines, monsters, special rules, etc and a large section for scenarios and terrain, larger than the actual rules
Setting
game is set on world Regalia that is connected with other young realms through portals of the old ones. Young realms are realms that were populated by the old creators and were guided on similar historical paths. They were untouched by chaos but this has changed since the arrival of sigmar (as a new faith) and archaon (as an actual emissary in flesh and blood)
there is no explanation (or just a brief one so that I have missed it) how this all came to be, just a description of the history of Regalia (and to a lesser extent some neighbouring realms)
On Regalia is dominated by hundreds of human kingdoms. Fast travel is possible through a number of stone circles that allows mages to open portal from one to another and a system of streams and seas under the earth that can be navigated by ship. There were a long period of peace curated by the Exoatl (Old Ones) that watched over the world from the North and Southpole. But then suddenly new faiths arrived, lots of human tribes started to pray to Sigmar and to conquer their neighbouring kingdoms. These lands are each independent, but are united in their faith to Sigmar. The history ends with the conquering of the Worlds Edge mountains and the crowning of the first emperor. At the same time, the first agents of Chaos arrived and began to corrupt the native people. A part of the Waaghkins rebelled against the old ones in favour of new gods, the Skaven arrived the first time, and in the south and east a death cult began to spread. The world is in turmoil. There are lots of unfinished story hooks so I think the story will be continued, but that might be wishful thinking.
humans are the majority in this world and they have kingdom and tribes everywhere, most of the known earth-inspired regions like cathay are there, but they are not described as fully flegded feudal nations but constantly changing petty empires and nomadic people ruled by warlords and champions of the gods. there are two factions of humans, the worshippers of sigmar and the polytheistic rest, both are not monocultural, but have different skin colors and cultures. Women fight beside men!
The dominion of sigmar is special, because they are the only ones that are reluctant to allow any other race than humans. They have only one god and their goal is to destroy all other gods and conquer their domains - for the greater good of the world of course. This has nothing in common with the Empire of the old world, except the heraldry, griffons are still en vogue. All tribes and city states and kingdoms are independent, the only common ground is their faith, the emperor is only a warlord with the purpose to expands the dominion towards the east. There a still knightly orders, zealots, witchhunters - so they retain some of their medieval flair but there are no state troops. There is no gunpowder, except from some dwarven imports, but they are known for using large warwaggons on their trek to the east. Kislec, Estalia, Araby, city states of Bretonnia, Norse and tribes of the Reiklands are part of the dominion. There are also some enclaves scattered across the world that are connected with magic portals
The Skaven arrived on their own on Regalia and are basically the same. Haven’t spent much time on them. They have now three gods called the triumvi-rat …..
Dawikorr (dwarfs) and Inneadim (elfs) have their own realms that are connected with Regalia. The Inneadim have outposts in America.
Dawikorr are only a legend on Regalia and nobody has seen them, but there are legends that they aid whorshippers of Sigmar in peril. They deliver the dominions of Sigmar with artifacts. They live underneath the world Karak Korr and guard the Soul Mill. Dawikorr have rules, so they can be fielded.
The Soul Mill is a huge machinery that allows minor deities to feed on the power of dead spirits or let them reincarnate or serve them as guardian hosts. It was built by the surviving dwarves of the old world on command of the Incarnates on a older machinery of the old ones. The dwarfs guard the soul mill and are aligned with Sigmar after the shattering of the Incarnates, but are under siege of the skaven that have found their way on this world and managed to steal two mighty souls that formed their new gods.
Inneadim whorship the dreamers, gods that have dreamt themselves, basically the elven gods. They live on their own world and protect the dreamchild. Under Araloth they founded enclaves on Regalia in search for the archelves, lost gods of their pantheon. They are a darker take on the elves, nightmare are as much part of their culture then dreams. They use necromancy and the death god Ynnead is at the centre of their pantheon. But they still live in symbiosis with the nature. The artwork shows an elf on a feathered mount, not like a chocobo, but more like a feathered raptor. the artbook shows pictures (and rules) from all existing elf armies.
Skaven and Dawikorr are the only races that use blackpowder, the rest of Regalia is on stuck on an ancient/medieval tech level. The Exoatl use magic techno gear. There is a certain level of anachronistic gear but it is not steampunk but powered by ancient magic. The only steampunk elements are in the Skaven and to a lesser extent the neo-dwarven fluff.
Chaos has no foothold in the north but is anywhere and consists of corrupted tribes and companies from every region of the world. The barbarian theme of the nomadic tribes is more associated with khorne than with chaos as a whole. Beastmen and demons are likely part of their faction because they are described in the same chapter (both in the fluff and unit cards), but demons can be summoned by everyone, so I don’t know for sure. And beastmen have very few pictures, so that’s a bad omen.
Waaghkins: orcs, goblins and are the servants of the old gods and live in a strict caste system, orcs are the manual laborers. There is a new race called nigmos: a tall and slender priest caste. Waaghkins travel the undersea, a system of flooded caverns that connects the whole world, on longboats and do the dirty work for the Exoatl. There is an artwork of the three different kinds of greenskins (no squigs and snotlings mentioned): an ork in very strange armour, very front heavy, textured like a symmetric turtle shell, he wields is an axe with multiple disc shape blades, goblin looked like a viking but has a futuristic looking handgun, the third was taller than a ork, female, slender - probably a nigmo. But in the photos of actual miniatures only show the old orc style. There is a subfaction of waaghkins that changed allegiance from the old gods to grimgor incarnate and are much more ferocious than their cousins.
undeads, deamons and spirits, and guardian hosts are used by every faction of the game, necromancy but not summoning is common in the dominion of Sigmar. The Inneadim are famous for their use of animated constructs. These things are not a big taboo in Regalia. However the most fearsome necromancers are (obviously) employed by the Empire of Nehekhara (which is not a desolate wasteland and has no egyptian vibe but is a rich and green country and feels more babylonian to me) and their death gods. But there is no Undead faction per se anymore. Vampires are called Necrarchs now.
Guardians hosts are troops that were granted by a god from another realm or the realm of the dead. They are living beings and have free will, but were brought to Regalia on the command of a deity.
- Lizardmen are not gone. There is a race called Servants of the Exoatl that guard the pole portals on flying pyramids, but no drawings and no fluff page (other races and tribess get at least half a page). They get unit cards for their old units (which confirms that they are simply lizardmen with a new name), but instead of beautiful pages with pictures like the rest of the bunch they get a simple list in the appendix of the compendium book.
Beastmen get the same lowkey treatment, but ogres get pictures and all, but I cannot say with which pantheon/faction they align. They are mortal, so you can use them in any the guardians of regalia army, but I don’t know if this is a stop gap solution or not.
Age of Sigmar box content:
Extrapolated from the pictures, they are the only new models. If you think you get 3-5 UNITS for each side, you are wrong. you get 10-15 (haven’t counted) CHARACTERS per side. Each model is really individual and it is in no way possible to field the majority of them as a visual coherent unit. It is late and this summary is long as it is, so I make this brief, but I will come back later and add some info on the miniatures. Chaos looks very similar to the old style except the berserkers, the Sigmarite Force is completely different.
Missionary Force:
3 Knights of the Order of Sigmars Blood, Roman looking armour but more bulky, leather Bands, swords and teardrop-shaped shields, champion is a woman
a pair of vigilantes: Male and female, leathercloaked, tricorn, 2 hand-crossbows
a hand full of heavy armoured warrior with different weapons and cloaks, almost knightly in appearance but completely over the top bulky, some have eagleshaped helmets
One hooded, chainmail wearing, hammer wielding girl
a bulldog
standard bearer: naked, chains that are hooked into the flesh, very archaic looking
one arabic looking guy with a two-handed scimitar and full armour
one guy in rags that wields a chain that burns at both ends, very impractical looking
Chaos Cult:
two outriders, basically chaos barbarians as we know them, but female
~5 berserkers: african looking, no armour, barefeet, clad in cloth stripes, two axes, bald and gaunt looking, not overly muscular, bone chain, both male and female
three pristesses: flowing robes, sacrifical ziggzagged daggers, skullmasks
two armoured harpies with spears and shields, crooked looking, feathered wings
at least five chaos warriors similar in appearance to the old chaos warriors, very dynamic fur cloaks and poses, one of them bigger on a larger base, all male as far as I could see
one large bloodletter, almost twice the size of a human
the leader has armour that looks like a chaos dwarfish, very babylonic, rides a demonwolf, a juggernaut, but with flesh and fur and spikes
some more viking-like infantry but with more chainmail
That’s only a broad description. Every model is highly individual.
Sorry for the chaotic nature of the info, I spent the evening writing this in a very fast manner. This is only the tip of the iceberg and I will come back with a little bit more soon - hopefully in a more ordered fashion. If you have a questions or need specifics and a topic, feel free to ask, maybe I remember something of use.
When I first started through the above I thought it was true and my heart started to sink. Even contemplating this as true is depressing. It is so bad it cannot be true but actually funny.
Oh and 'Nigmos' the new race...what a PR disaster that would be if that was their official name
I think darnok calling out against these rumors really put them on false end of spectrum to me. The nigmos thing just feels a bit like trolling on top of rumor cake.
I agree with HMV, you can type pretty much any absurdity in urban dictionary and get some profane term. It's basically their bread and butter (I wonder if that expression has a double meaning...)
His Master's Voice wrote: Ah, so there's nothing actually wrong with Nigmos. Thanks for clearing that up.
No, it's one of those words that it's only ok to use if you are one.
No, it's a moronic slang word no one in their right mind should care about.
The word which we aren't even typing is also a slang term. Are you suggesting no one in their right mind should care about that?
Fact remains that even if it is slang term, having your product have that connection to racism is moronic and a sure sign of incompetence. Type in nigmo into google and urban dictionary is the first result. That will not be good advertising for GW when people forget to put the 's' on the end. Type nigmos and urban dictionary is the 7th result, after a load of results for The Sims. So either GW has to be bigger than The Sims (not likely) or it has to overcome potentially racist undertones.
A Town Called Malus wrote: The word which we aren't even typing is also a slang term. Are you suggesting no one in their right mind should care about that?
[see forum posting rules] does not fit the definition of a slang term, given it's widespread use across multiple social class vocabularies during a significant period of time and the resulting social connotations today.
Nigmo is a slang word. Its use is limited to a very narrow sample of the population given multiple natively English speaking posters here had no idea it's supposed to have a derogatory meaning. To bend to this kind of idiocy is to invite the destruction of language because "will someone think of the children" syndrome. Next thing we know a homosexual black male you don't know will be described as an engimo, then a black lesbian will become an enigma. And then what?
As for the Google hits, the fifth and eight result show people with that name. Really, it's a non issue.
Edit: Are you fething me? Let's see if this works for other words like that? Soap? Nope. Polnische Schweine? Nope. Guess those are not bad words no one should ever read, eh?
"A type of language consisting of words and phrases that are regarded as very informal, are more common in speech than writing, and are typically restricted to a particular context or group of people."
In what way does the N-word not fit in that definition? It's certainly not formal english.
75hastings69 on warseer wrote:Yep...... I think this guy is actually NOT talking entirely about the AoS box/set but in some instances the Rules AFTERWARDS...
....... consists of three books (what I have heard too)
- full fledged rule system; no skirmish game - meaning not restricted to low miniature count: (as I understand it AoS WILL be skirmish level, the later rules bring about massed battle rules)
- there are unit cards for every (as far as I can see) old unit. I was told there would be separate rules to allow fielding of old units, however I thought these were included in the kits
Setting
game is set on world Regalia that is connected with other young realms through portals of the old ones. Young realms are realms that were populated by the old creators and were guided on similar historical paths. Exactly what I was told
...... Fast travel is possible through a number of ..... circles that allows mages to open portal from one to another ..... There were a long period of peace curated by the Exoatl (Old Ones) ...... Exactly what I was told
The Skaven arrived on their own on Regalia and are basically the same. Exactly what I was told
The Soul Mill is a huge machinery ...... to feed on the power of dead spirits..... Exactly what I was told
- Lizardmen are not gone. There is a race called Servants of the Exoatl - I was not aware of the "servants of" part but the name Exoatl was mentioned to me.
"A type of language consisting of words and phrases that are regarded as very informal, are more common in speech than writing, and are typically restricted to a particular context or group of people."
In what way does the N-word not fit in that definition? It's certainly not formal english.
It was part of formal English for centuries, in use across multiple social groups. And now it's not. It's not a slang term. Not that it matters, since we're talking about nigmo and nigmos here.
I am well aware of that word, and its history. I refuse to use it here out of respect for others. I don't see such refusal as childish, but rather mature.
It's one thing to throw a potentially sensitive word without a good reason, because you can. It's another to use it in a formal discussion on the nature of language and its implications on a commercial product. And I didn't mean to imply you're acting like a child. Sorry about that.
Edit: So it looks like Hastings is straight up confirming large sections of the rumour. I trust the man.
If hastings is confirming that abortion they call fluff, then I guess it's now down to the rules, the fluff for 30/40k and fantasy are all that has kept me playing and if the fluff is as bad as that looks, I'm out, the rules may mitigate it a little as I can just use more models and stick to the proper fantasy world.
But GW's track record with rules leads me to believe that fantasy is dead, rip 20+ years of my hobby if that's the case.
Hastings confirming the weird fluff is a pretty huge deal. I too thought those rumours sounded pretty fictionalized. Almost any change is a good thing as far as I'm concerned with pretty much all GW's messy rulesets but this business of a new magic place that serves as the magic hub of a magic multiverse all sounds a bit... Blizzard for my tastes.
Did Hastings make a follow up post referring specifically to the fluff? If so, could someone quote it over? Only fair since the rumour originated in this thread
Magic the Gathering is pretty much singlehandedly keeping, some, gaming shops open across the US.
Stealing some of that audience would be a major win. Those people drop $300-$500+ every few months on the latest set and they are used to anything 2 years or older being obsolete. GW would love those people.
adamsouza wrote: Magic the Gathering is pretty much singlehandedly keeping, some, gaming shops open across the US.
Stealing some of that audience would be a major win. Those people drop $300-$500+ every few months on the latest set and they are used to anything 2 years or older being obsolete. GW would love those people.
They would love those people if they could gain their patronage without having to put in the effort to make solid, balanced rules free of ambiguous language as well as not having to support with both cash money and product the myriad of competitive play opportunities. Basically, they'd love to have everything that makes MTG lucrative without putting in any of the work that got it there.
(Let's see if I can get on Bell of Lost Souls too! )
I got a look at the rule book this weekend and can confirm many of the rumors floating around.
As expected End Times is IN continuity, sorry to all the folks who expected a bit reset button at the end.
The Olde Worlde is gone and it ain't coming back.
that bieng said, GW is now about to scrap its entire product line so yes, the game is backwards compatible with all extant army books and models!
Bases can be round or square.
The big change is in deployment, movement and terrain.
IGOUGO is gone, now all movement is simultanious, with players trying to move as many models or units as they can, it's a lot like speed chess and really speeds up the game.
In 9th edition battles are fought over the Formless Void which is all the remains of the Warhammer world. You still use terrain such as buildings, woods and cemetaries, but they're like floating islands in the Formless Void and in fact move d6" a turn.
Models are deployed randomly using scatter dice.
At the start of each turn they drift 2d6" inches. If they end in contact with a friendly model they may link arms and now move as one unit for the rest of the game (they can disengage at the start of any movement phase).
If they bump into an enemy model they immediatly fight until one or the other is dead.
Flying models are very interesting as they can fight against the swirling winds of the Formless Void. They can reroll direction and, once direction is finalized, may choose to roll 1, 2, 3 or 4d6 for move. They're really going to dominate.
After the movement phase comes the shooting phase.
Since all models are floating in the formless void (BTW the rule book has a picture of the new Formless Void Realms of Battle board, it is amazing!) all shooting attacks have unlimited range but the shooting model then moves d6 inches in the opposite direction (2d6 for firearms, 3d6 for cannon).
Models that fall off the edge of the table are automatically destroyed by the all consuming maw of the maelstrum.
Magic, surprisingly, is largely unchanged from End Times save for the addition of the Lore of the Formless Void which can really allow a player to dominate the movement phase with spells that move everyone d6" to the left or cause the table edge to move inwards d6".
Oh I forgot to mention that the old 4'x6' table is GONE GONE GONE, legal tables are now round with a radius equal to the the point value of the game/2 in milimeters. So a 1000 point game is played on a 1m in diameter round table.
Variously sized round folding tables will be available online and in GW stores (sorry no FLGS or indies).
As promised we have a game that allows all prior armies to play while also moving the storyline forward.
I didn't think they could pull it off but they did!
JohnHwangDD wrote: Thanks, KK. With all this 9E nonsense, I am so nostalgic, I am now thinking to eBay a 7E hardback rulebook for posterity.
I hear there's another company in Notingham making a grimdark fantasy battle game.
I even hear rumors they care about the quality of their games.
Now if they only cared about the quality of their miniatures more than the next Kickstarter loot haul.....
+1 and QFT.
Kickstart has done some great things, but it's also made companies feel like they are entitled to money without any risk or venture, or customer satisfaction.
The female orcs feel like a red flag to me on those rumors. Let alone the name. Alot of it dose sound like interesting ideas. But it reads like a spell jammer whfb mash up then anything.
Dawikorr (dwarfs) and Inneadim (elfs) have their own realms that are connected with Regalia. The Inneadim have outposts in America.
Uhm wut?
Guess Im not too familiar with the fluff but thats a bit that screams fake doesnt it?
Renaming the incredibly derivative race names to something they can copyright sounds like something they'd do. (Though didn't the CH case rule that third party companies could use GW's names to reference their compatibility?) If the new world has a nearly identical map (despite how stupid that would be) Someone seeing Naggaroth could easily describe it as America.
Dawikorr (dwarfs) and Inneadim (elfs) have their own realms that are connected with Regalia. The Inneadim have outposts in America.
Uhm wut?
Guess Im not too familiar with the fluff but thats a bit that screams fake doesnt it?
Renaming the incredibly derivative race names to something they can copyright sounds like something they'd do. (Though didn't the CH case rule that third party companies could use GW's names to reference their compatibility?) If the new world has a nearly identical map (despite how stupid that would be) Someone seeing Naggaroth could easily describe it as America.
And kicking dwarves and elves off of the main world makes it easy to marginalize them and focus on properties GW can make more distinct.
So that actually didn't sound totally impossible to me.
If it's true that us nerds will be frantically moving troops all at the same time, I cringe thinking about going into a store whilst AoS is being played. Smells bad enough with some just sitting there.... Yikes...
Also, manual dexterity requires are further narrowing the audience. I don't think our 300lbs friend will enjoy this one...
ultraatma wrote: If it's true that us nerds will be frantically moving troops all at the same time, I cringe thinking about going into a store whilst AoS is being played. Smells bad enough with some just sitting there.... Yikes...
Also, manual dexterity requires are further narrowing the audience. I don't think our 300lbs friend will enjoy this one...
Pushing through a rename of the dwarves seems particularly odd for another reason. Namely, dwarves are one of the four races that will be in Total War Warhammer at launch.
Pre end times i'm guessing, as evidenced by the trailer. Im surprised people don't recall WH: Mark of Chaos...which was set in the Old World as well, on a smaller scale than Total War though. That wasn't a bad game at all, not great...but not awful either...they nailed the look and feel rather well.
Pre end times i'm guessing, as evidenced by the trailer. Im surprised people don't recall WH: Mark of Chaos...which was set in the Old World as well, on a smaller scale than Total War though. That wasn't a bad game at all, not great...but not awful either...they nailed the look and feel rather well.
Strangely I was just thinking of installing that today. Remember it being a bit clunky but as you said it did nail the aesthetics quite well.
I apologize if this is already posted, but EVERY 8th ed army book has just rocketed up in price. The description says that all sales of these books will be ended on June 26th.
Rulebook is 125 USD
Army books are ranging from 55 - 83 USD
The Age of Sigmar is coming...
EDIT: Nearly every single price has just shot up for fantasy
atribix wrote: I apologize if this is already posted, but EVERY 8th ed army book has just rocketed up in price. The description says that all sales of these books will be ended on June 26th.
Rulebook is 125 USD
Army books are ranging from 55 - 83 USD
The Age of Sigmar is coming...
EDIT: Nearly every single price has just shot up for fantasy
Check the flag on the GW site; you're on Australia.
atribix wrote: I apologize if this is already posted, but EVERY 8th ed army book has just rocketed up in price. The description says that all sales of these books will be ended on June 26th.
Rulebook is 125 USD
Army books are ranging from 55 - 83 USD
The Age of Sigmar is coming...
EDIT: Nearly every single price has just shot up for fantasy
Check the flag on the GW site; you're on Australia.
I periodically check this thread and it is becoming even more farcical as time goes on.
GW either needs an immediate change of management (at this stage virtually anyone could do a better job) or they need to die so that they can't do even more damage to the fluff.
monders wrote: To those calling bull, do you honestly think someone would come up with all of that just troll half a dozen gorgnards?!
I'm not calling bull, because I completely believe GW will change the force selection to allow for Unbound Fantasy armies. Of that I believe he his 100% correct.
As for whether it's a "troll", you're new here, right?
monders wrote: To those calling bull, do you honestly think someone would come up with all of that just troll half a dozen gorgnards?!
As for whether it's a "troll", you're new here, right?
Trolling us with fake rumors is a 'fine' tradition. Pretty much anyone with no history who posts is probably trolling us at this point.
I really should know better. This isn't my first rodeo. I'm still heart broken over the distinct lack of Blood Bowl re-make.
Pacific wrote:
I will say this is real, because otherwise I don't want to think of one person that is obviously a lunatic walking free through the streets.* Because that is what it would take to make up something like that, it goes way beyond 'troll'.
* Unless people in white-padded cells now have access to a laptop and wi-fi
JohnHwangDD wrote: Thanks, KK. With all this 9E nonsense, I am so nostalgic, I am now thinking to eBay a 7E hardback rulebook for posterity.
I hear there's another company in Notingham making a grimdark fantasy battle game.
I even hear rumors they care about the quality of their games.
Too bad their miniatures look like gak sculpted by a half-blind one-armed halfwit.
That's not strictly true JohnHwangDD: Sure, SOME of their models are a bit crappy but they have come out with some awesome stuff too. I think most of this stems from us being spoilt with GW stuff (barring finecast of course).
atribix wrote: I apologize if this is already posted, but EVERY 8th ed army book has just rocketed up in price. The description says that all sales of these books will be ended on June 26th.
Rulebook is 125 USD
Army books are ranging from 55 - 83 USD
The Age of Sigmar is coming...
EDIT: Nearly every single price has just shot up for fantasy
Check the flag on the GW site; you're on Australia.
Thanks for that. I was freaking out
We should still be freaking out. Every army book on the website says "This product will be removed from sale on June 26th. The Age of Sigmar is coming!"
There goes everything.
Edit: It also says this for every End Times book. Great job invalidating all of our purchases for the past few months, GW.
(That said, my dwarf army is mostly Mantic....)
)
