Inigo Montoya wrote: Spidey0804 - playing bad players with a bad list doesn't make your list good.
Squads of 20 sisters are indeed just silly to run competitively, and saying " I do it and I beat everyone " doesn't make it a good choice. lollollollollol (in your own words..)
At a competitive level, I see Russ' and griffons everywhere, and I see the griffon/basalisk squadron (which will kill the bulk of one of those 20 sister squads in a single turn) at least once. Grey knights own them - lots of things own them, and putting 20 on the board is a clear sign that your grasp on competitive list building is tenuous at best.
I'm not a big fan of Sister blobs, but to be fair ordinance heavy IG is going to do serious damage to pretty much any pure Sisters build. It's just not a good match up to begin with. Since I usually kill GK with weight of fire, I'm not too certain they'd be happy with 40 bolter shots coming their way, either. I prefer the flexibility of smaller units, but I'm sure a lot of lists are intimidated by 20 strong fearless power armor blobs. Bringing a little variety into the game is never a bad thing.
All I know is that as a foot IG player, having something whose armor save isn't ignored by literally almost every small arm in the game is very appealing. Plus, they'd make a good defensive/ screening unit for me, and if I feel like being aggressive, they can pull that off as well. I can grab one of their priest guys for my blobs if I choose (mainly because our priests are terrible and need to be fixed). And we're battle brothers so things like leadership auras are more helpful.
Plus, they're still a lot cheaper than marines, and since I hate space marines, they're really my only choice. I'd rather have 20 sisters than be yet another IG with SW allies.
Simply put, they can bring more bodies cheaper, which is the whole point of my foot IG list to begin with. Their vehicles can be handy if I want them (immolator especially would be fun to try) and their support units fill gaps in the IG codex that we can't fill well on our own. Plus, I think it'll look awesome on the table, not to mention that it's fluffy.
Vindicare-Obsession wrote: Am I the only one who dosent play with allies? I think it just takes the fun out of sisters. I mean, if I wanted allies I would just play a 2v2. Thoughts?
I don't run allies with my Sisters. I make do with what we have and go from there. I cannot think of a time where I honestly felt I needed allies to do well. We have our shortcomings, but so do all codexes. There is also a matter of pride with me and fielding Sisters and nothing but. I don't hate on allies, but I don't take them myself either.
I have to agree with Agusto on some points. Point for point Sisters will be putting out more shots then most other armies. I've been playing quite a bit since 6th(and about 6 months before the 5th/6th switch).
I play with the mentality of 2 to 1. I will almost always have twice as many bodies as my opponants (orks excluded). There is almost never a time I haven't faced down better stated armies by pushing more bolters into their face.
Here are a few tips I've found useful:
- Never get out of your rhino. Make them work to get to the soft center. Till they get there just pop out and special weapon the living hell out of them. Which brings me to.
- Melta, melta, melta. We get it on the cheap and have more of it then anybody. Melta puts just about anything in the ground and weaken whatevers left.
- Your heavy slots are very important. You will out range many armies with either your exorcists or rending heavy bolters. This forces most armies to come to you or else they will get cut down before they can get in an optimal range.
- Pick your targets carefully. Sisters are all about priority targeting and picking out the things that can take advantage of the fact that we are a bit squishy. We only have a turn or 2 to soften them up and make them managable for clean up.
- Load up on troops. I know our BSS are pretty bad compared to some of the other troop choices everyone else has. But most games are objective based, so when they are taking 3 troops on average while you are taking 4 or 5. If you kill them 1 for 1, you will sill have troops while they can not score at all. I've won so many games because of this alone.
- Last one. USE YOUR FAITH. I've seen so many game go south when a simple die roll could've changed everything. You get to have rerolls, twinlinking, rending. Use them to your advantage. There is nothing worse then having extra faith points at the end of your turn when they could've affected something important.
These aren't hard and fast rules to playing Sisters, but more what I've found to work best for my playstyle.
I would try nothing but sisters, but there's no way I can afford them, especially as I'm still building up orks and IG.
So until then, they're allies. I'm sure they do great standing on their own, but unless somebody gives me a box full of models, they're backing up my guardsmen indefinitely.
To Inari82. Thanks for agreeing, on some points I had a game this very evening against a young female (yes, they do exist) Dark Eldar player who had a tough time dealing with the sheer amount of units I had. If she stayed in long range, Exorcists and Auto cannons would grind her transports down and if she went closer, well then it was the wall of bolter and flame we are so famous for. We had a long talk after the game about the chess metaphor I mentioned earlier and why it hindered her movement the way it did. I won the game because I could force her to move in a certain way, mostly due to the fact that she is a relative new player. Don't get me wrong, she is a good player and a damn lot better than I was after only a handful of games and as she plays more games she will become more and dangerous! But what sealed her fate in the end was a situation where I moved my Penitent engine to my left flank. Spearheading her army on that flank was a Raider with Lelith and her unit of Wyches. By putting the engine as a cover for my softer targets of Seraphims and allied HQ farther behind I more or less forced her to charge the Penitent because she feared the double heavy flamers would burn her to a crisp is she charged the other units. Of course the engine got Haywired into oblivion but then my retaliation wiped out her close combat squad and secured the flank. I sacrificed a few points and killed much more!
Why I mention this is because I am more and more leaning towards including an element or two of close combat units to act as “pawns” in my own half of the table. Right now my Repentias and my Penitent are excellent in this way. Both units are monsters in CC, they wont run away and best of all are really, really cheep! So now my army is more or less like a world war one trench system with three lines. My first line, simply there to break the enemy up and force him (or her) to spend time and fire power is my Sentinel and my Dominions. Yes, a Sentinel may fall even to small arms fire BUT will you disembark and waste a unit that only MIGHT take it down? Or will you waste a valuable anti-tank shot taking out such a soft target instead of firing at my Exorcists? Either way is a win for me! The second line are my BSS, Seraphims AND my close combat pawns. Now I force my opponent to focus on one or the other. Target my shooters and I will charge you or take out the “pawns” and taste bolter! And this is before they even reach my third line of Exorcists, Auto cannons and Russ. The threat to my opponent of being killed, decimated or simply tied up by a CC unit is invaluable for me as I can more or less create a bubble around my pawns where the opposing army don't dare to tread. And by that we are back to making your opponent move the way YOU want In my case, a rather lucky string of actions from my Repentias has given them a fear factor far greater than their actual worth. They have killed terminator squads, Dreadnoughts and Special Characters and boy do I love pointing out that they don't even cost a hundred points!
I have to say that I don't agree with melta, melta, melta! There are more and more occasions where I realize that I would rather have had more flamers than more meltas. As transports have been nerfed I see fewer and fewer such and as the FAQs have made Shaken and Stunned results worse, there are more foot sloggers or equivalents out there. And with bastions, defence lines and such as well flamers are really useful. Right now I run one BSS with two flamers (possibly combi-flamer as well) and one BSS with two meltas (combi-melta if points allow) and this works for me. Positioning and manoeuvre makes sure that the right girls get to the right place. But I do agree with not getting out of the Rhino until you can be sure to wipe out your target. Target priority and wolf pack tactics! Don't fire one unit and hope to take out a few models. Pour so much fire into the unit that there will be no retaliation of any kind.
Lastly, you mention Faith. This is the one area where our army is unique and yes, the rerolls and the twin linking can be game changers but it is also the one area where the WD-codex is such a disappointment. Because Faith can be so fickle. One turn you roll a “6” and no units to use your faith on and the next you roll a “1” and now you have three or four units who all could benefit from a prayer. I sorely miss the old scaling system (including the item where you could get a one-use automatic successful prayer) that allowed us to make our prayers count and we could tactically plan for them to be as effective as possible. Now it is down to pure luck and the roll of a dice instead of skill! I would even go as far as saying that if they could make a new prayer system with some defensive prayers or at least make prayers last for the ENTIRE TURN (I hate not being able to give my Canoness preferred enemy in the shooting phase or reroll wounds for my Seraphims in close combat) I could actually live comfortably with the WD-codex until our book finally comes out. Prayers and martyrs was what made C:WH what it was, this system is... bland :(
pretre wrote:The problem with Eldar is that we get no scoring / denial from the equation. Sisters need something to buff their light scoring otherwise they shouldn't take the ally. That means a minimum of allies of convenience.
I've been cooking up ally combos for a little while. Need a good 1850 list. I may create some horrible fluff abomination for a tournament next month. SW plus Sisters? Muhahaha.
Yeah that is a pain to deal with, im only putting up with it though because i wanna try them as allies in both combinations. I have 3-4 sister squads in my list usually so I'm ok on troops, it's a lot of points bringing a 5man d squad with a ws with a starcannon but I can pick up cheap physic defense, more melta guns and a wraithlord.
It's definitely not a optimal choice but worth exploring to me since it's the only ally I can currently try out.
Vindicare-Obsession wrote:Eldar actually have one of the nastiest scoring units in rangers with the pathfinder upgrade. that 2+ cover is some rediculousness to work through.
Rangers are horrid in my experience, they roll-over whenever they so much as see a template weapons. Even placing them in great cover they get focused really hard and die incredibly fast, and are very very expensive for a unit that just camps. I wouldn't take them as allies or in a main army :/ but that's just my experience I know other people do amazing things with them.
Yeah, My eldar are based off of them. I love my 2+ cover, not to mention if someone does close the distance with templates, either your vehicle killers havent done their job, or your ranges havent done theirs. With the new sniper rules it should become impossiable to close the distance with foot infantry templates (snipe them out of the unit and all), and if you have good target priority with your tank hunters then they should be reduced to walking to hit the rangers. Its all about how you target.
Does everyone just use Celestine to bolt pistol in the shooting phase or has anyone though about grenading with her?
Inigo Montoya wrote: Spidey0804 - playing bad players with a bad list doesn't make your list good.
Squads of 20 sisters are indeed just silly to run competitively, and saying " I do it and I beat everyone " doesn't make it a good choice. lollollollollol (in your own words..)
At a competitive level, I see Russ' and griffons everywhere, and I see the griffon/basalisk squadron (which will kill the bulk of one of those 20 sister squads in a single turn) at least once. Grey knights own them - lots of things own them, and putting 20 on the board is a clear sign that your grasp on competitive list building is tenuous at best.
Yeah sorry if I take some offence to this... The guys that play here in the local Meta are GT players and Ardboyz winners. I have played in multiply GTs and know my girls inside and out. Next question do you play them? As for your Squadrons they tend not to last that long against this list. Seeing as Im going to be hitting them with 4 Las Cannons turn 1, that have the ability to re-roll hits and if I'm really lucky they ignore cover also. You think I'm just put 20 girls on the table in a huge clump... Really... Dont get me wrong I have played some bad lists but all and all you bring 2k and I bring 2k and we let the dice do the talking. FYI this type of list too 3rd best general at Nova this year I just modified to make it even more broken...
Spidey0804 wrote: FYI this type of list too 3rd best general at Nova this year I just modified to make it even more broken...
Okay, we should probably take the personal potshots and wang waving into another thread. Just wanted to correct something... Your list only vaguely resembles the Nova list at this point since he didn't use foot blobs, penitents or repentia. (Assuming your list is what you commonly talk about.)
Sorry I just cant stand someone coming in and saying that I club baby seals for a living... just is completely aggravating to me. Aside from that no I have re done my list at least for the next year. It stands as such...
Retibutors(6) Heavy Bolter (x4) Simulacrum
VRS plain.
Fortification
Bastion w Las Cannon
Allies
HQ Coteaz
Troop
Henchman Squad Jokeros(3) Crusaders(3) Servitor w Plasma Cannon(1)
Heavy
Dread Knight w Sword and Heavy Incinerator
How it Plays-----
Bastion is set on the edge of your deployment zone with Coteaz and HS manning the gun. Rets inside. 1 BSS will always be on the field for screen the Bastion, Also if playing against guard I find a nice big plot of area terrain to disperse into so I can Go to Ground if I have to. 1 BSS may or may not be in reserves. Exorcist is placed on the fringe of deployment behind ruins or hills FA 13 4+ cover save is what I'm looking for most games. Dominions go in outflanking mode for Line breaker and rooting stuff off of back field objective. DK is placed in deep strike to drop into back fields and harass what ever it can get its hands onto. So this is very similar to Jeremy's list but at the same time very different. I'm still putting 68 models on the table 50 of which are scoring depending on the mission it could be 60. A reduced amount of over all kill points compared to normal sisters lists and 2 very resilient BSS squads, A Retributor squad that cant even be targeted. The Henchman squad with its variable armor and 3+ invul saves in it and a AV 13 vehicle with a 4+ cover save.... 4 of my KPs get placed inside the BSS so you will have to chew threw that to even start touching the other KPs in it. in essence I have a 7 KP list for most of the game. Putting the Doms in Outflank and the DK in deepstrike makes that a 5 KP list, Rets inside the bastion make it a 4 KP list.... Coteaz in the HS makes it a 3 KP list.... on turn 1 the total list has 13 and that's if you table me. I can make 10 of those KPs very hard to get.
Yeah i though about it, the DK is used more for harassment and so the DS allows me to get him in the back field and I'm just cool with that . I can fail 2+ saves( I do it all the time with Celestine) LOL only have to fail 4 to makes it a huge Pnts sink that could disappear as soon as it hits.
I posted this question in the Army list forum, but didn't have any takers. So I figured I would take it straight to the experts.
I'm building a 1750 list.
I am building up a Sister's force and for the time being I wanted to add them to my existing guard. So I made up a list with two Sister options. Both include two squads of Sisters with meltas in rhinos. The two toss ups are to take Uriah and plop him into a 30 man blob for stubborn, righteous rage, FNP. Or bring Celestine with a 10 woman strong seraphim squad.
Not so sure on the Vultures, since I haven't seen the rules for them, but...
That list seems really light. How many points?
I think you'll need the scoring and Uriah is probably a good choice in that regard, although Celestine is more of a heavy hitter and will get you linebreaker more often.
Also, I wouldn't take the second BSS, just take more guard.
pretre wrote: Not so sure on the Vultures, since I haven't seen the rules for them, but...
That list seems really light. How many points?
I think you'll need the scoring and Uriah is probably a good choice in that regard, although Celestine is more of a heavy hitter and will get you linebreaker more often.
Also, I wouldn't take the second BSS, just take more guard.
Hmm, I was taking the the second Sister's Squad in place of a Veteran squad with melta guns. The price ends up being about the same when both units take their respective transports. I guess a chimera is better than a rhino, but I figured that would be offset by the sisters being able to survive longer while claiming objectives with their power armor. The loss of an extra melta gun would be mediated by addition of multi melta with more range.
It depends on your play style if anything what you see them doing... If your a camper then go with Uriah if your a striker then go with Celestine and the Searies...
The only thing I would advist is picking out some unit to run interference. Your very infantry light so you might come into some isses with the new flyers zooming aorund everywhere and blowing all of your armor up. With this kind of list you win or lose at deployment more than anything else. You have to deploy safe while maintaing good range and LOS. The biggest issue I would have running this list is most of your armor is very low, you must be careful of enemy infiltrators, outflankers, and fast movers. DE is going to be the bane of this list.
Vindicare-Obsession wrote: The only thing I would advist is picking out some unit to run interference. Your very infantry light so you might come into some isses with the new flyers zooming aorund everywhere and blowing all of your armor up. With this kind of list you win or lose at deployment more than anything else. You have to deploy safe while maintaing good range and LOS. The biggest issue I would have running this list is most of your armor is very low, you must be careful of enemy infiltrators, outflankers, and fast movers. DE is going to be the bane of this list.
Do you mean that the armor value is low? That doesn't seem to be too much of a problem since DE weapons go through AV 14 just as easily as 12. The infiltrators and outflankers probably bring melta and AV 14 won't help there either.
One possibility was to take Russes in the place of the Medusa and Manticore.
Im more referring to the world famous "Reaver Missile" where you get rammed at S-10 form 36 inches away. On top of that their 5++ could make it so you take the pen and they walk away. I know the tactic well, Ive used it too many times to count. From there the newly disembarked unit pot-shots your other low AV models until they die too. DE are the bane of Battery guard because they always build like that (From what I've seen anyway)
I would say you should include some russes. They are good firepower while still being a beast in front armor. More infantry couldnt hurt either b/c it means people have more targets to chew through than just 10 ordnance pieces
Vindicare-Obsession wrote: Im more referring to the world famous "Reaver Missile" where you get rammed at S-10 form 36 inches away. On top of that their 5++ could make it so you take the pen and they walk away. I know the tactic well, Ive used it too many times to count. From there the newly disembarked unit pot-shots your other low AV models until they die too. DE are the bane of Battery guard because they always build like that (From what I've seen anyway)
I would say you should include some russes. They are good firepower while still being a beast in front armor. More infantry couldnt hurt either b/c it means people have more targets to chew through than just 10 ordnance pieces
I will try the russes. That makes it easier actually as those are built and painted already.
I'm also thinking of just taking vendettas instead of vultures. I want to get some more unique models for the army, but the nearly 100 dollar price tag is making it hard to justify. For the price of one vulture I can get two vendettas on the internets. And it's better anti-air. The BS 4 punisher cannon seemed nice against ground targets though.
Vindicare-Obsession wrote: Punisher is on a russ and a russ dosent have to zoom. People run punisher russ with pask and you get the same thing with more armor adn versatility.
I see the zooming as a benefit, makes it harder to hit. The zooming is less of a problem on the vulture too since it gets two pivots per turn. Plus the vulture-punisher is cheaper and can hit air units at full BS. But, that's beyond the scope of my sister questions...
Vindicare-Obsession wrote: 1 Pivot as per flyer rules at 90' adn the it has to move a certain distance that I dont remember off of the top of my head. Ah, well.
It has the vector dancer special rule that allows it to pivot after it's move. I think most of the eldar forgeworld fliers have that too.
Looking for some thoughts on this list. I have been trying to find a way to squeeze Creed into a list for a little bit, as I really want to try giving Jacobus or Celestine scout and getting up in my opponent's face even faster. Putting Jacobus and conclave in a rhino and giving them scout means they have a 30" + 3d6 assault range on turn 2 (12" scout, 6" move, 6" disembark, d6 run, then 6" move and 2d6 assault) which really makes them better than they were previously.
Similarly, I can give my seraphim scout if I need to get some flamers up in the face of a horde and stall its advance.
I games, if I can establish midfield dominance I am in great shape to win the game, giving a unit scout allows me to compliment the Dominion rush and really buy my ladies the 1 turn they need to setup shop midfield. I have had solid success at 2000 points, but I am having great trouble changing my list to be viable at 1850. The 2k list uses Exorcists, an aegis line, kits out the CCS more, and uses an autocannon-spam infantry platoon (in addition to seraphim, 2x Doms, Jacobus, Celestine, and 2x BSS)... I have had to greatly change this for 1850, as seen below. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated on this, because I am leaning towards just running pure ladies at 1850, and shelving allies for 2k+ only.
HQ Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus, Protector of the Faith
-->Battle Conclave of 4 Crusaders w/Axes and 5 Assassins w/Swords & Mauls, Rhino w/Dozer Blade
Company Command Squad
-->Lord Castellan Creed
Sits on top of the Bastion like a poor man's Coteaz, I am really just paying a 90 point tax to let Jacobus assault something on turn 2
Fast Attack Seraphim Squad
-->3 Extra Sisters, 2 Hand Flamers, Eviscerator on superior
Dominion Squad
--> 2x Meltagun, Multimelta Immolator w/Dozer Blade
Dominion Squad
--> 2x Meltagun, Multimelta Immolator w/Dozer Blade
Heavy Support Retributor Squad
-->2 extra sisters, Similacrum Imperialis, 4x Heavy Bolter
These ladies sit in the bastion and shoot 6 heavy bolters, no big surprise
Frankly, I am not incredibly happy with the list, but I am unsure how to fix it (or, if it is even fixable at this points level). While it is very contingent on getting the first turn, that is almost never a concern for me. Between the way fliers work, last-minute objective grabbing dreams, and the fact that if I win the roll-off I am choosing first, I almost always get to go first.
quiestdeus wrote: Looking for some thoughts on this list. I have been trying to find a way to squeeze Creed into a list for a little bit, as I really want to try giving Jacobus or Celestine scout and getting up in my opponent's face even faster. Putting Jacobus and conclave in a rhino and giving them scout means they have a 30" + 3d6 assault range on turn 2 (12" scout, 6" move, 6" disembark, d6 run, then 6" move and 2d6 assault) which really makes them better than they were previously.
You can't assault out of a vehicle and you can't assault after scouting.
Similarly, I can give my seraphim scout if I need to get some flamers up in the face of a horde and stall its advance.
This is fine.
-->Battle Conclave of 4 Crusaders w/Axes and 5 Assassins w/Swords & Mauls, Rhino w/Dozer Blade
See above. I wouldn't bother with a vehicle anymore.
Company Command Squad
-->Lord Castellan Creed
Sits on top of the Bastion like a poor man's Coteaz, I am really just paying a 90 point tax to let Jacobus assault something on turn 2]
See above. I wouldn't bother.
w/Dozer Blade
Heavy Support Retributor Squad
-->2 extra sisters, Similacrum Imperialis, 4x Heavy Bolter
These ladies sit in the bastion and shoot 6 heavy bolters, no big surprise
Where's the rest of your heavy support? It is one of the good slots we have.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You'll have to work out points on this. If all else fails, drop the conclave and put Uriah in the Infantry Platoon.
Celestine
Uriah with Walking Conclave of 10
CCS with Lascannon, MoO (top of Bastion)
BSS with MM/Flamer, Combi, Rhino with DB
BSS with MM/Flamer, Combi, Rhino with DB
Infantry Platoon with 2 IS with AC, Bare PCSs
Bastion with Icarus
Seraphim as yours
Dominions as yours
Retributors as yours
Exorcist
Manticore or Basilisk
Aye, I understand you cannot assault out of a vehicle, or after scout - this is setting up for a turn 2 assault. Scout move, turn 1 move 6, disembark, then run. Turn 2 move then assault.
Jacobus is in the rhino to make the scout move 12", rather than 6, and to get an extra 6" move on turn 1 before disembarking.
As for the other heavy support, yeah... just did not fit. Exorcists are good, but only in bulk. 1d6 S8 shots is just too unreliable, and all the Dom's melta and Assassin's Maces can take out any armor I really need to get rid of early.
The entire list is really focused on that initial alpha-strike. Getting 4 melta guns, 2 multimeltas up close, and ensuring the battle conclave can assault on turn 2, which Creed is a necessity for.
It is not meant to be a Sisters-Guard allies list, but a "Conclave is beating your face T2, disrupting your plan and making you deal with it while everyone else gets into position" list, if that makes sense
Edit - I would love to drop the Bastion, and Retributors for 2 exorcists... but then I REALLY have nothing for Creed to be doing and he really becomes a 140 point waste, rather than a REALLY expensive TL lascannon shooter (because get can give himself Bring it Down!) so I figured Bastion + Rets was the better option. Think it is worth dropping the Simlacrum to add another lascannon to Creed's CCS?
Okay, I see what you're getting at. I just think that people will eliminate jacobus' squad after they disembark as the primary target. Weathering a turn of fire is tough, especially when they are that close.
I also think that you underestimate the importance of first turn with this list. If I see 2 doms, creed and such all in one list, you better believe I'm not giving you turn 1. Dominions are practically +1 VP for free when they scout forward since your opponent is going to pop the Immo. I have been outflanking them much more recently if I get turn 2, whereas in 5th I always kept them on the board.
Automatically Appended Next Post: save yourself some points and go Aegis with Icarus and put Creed behind that. Plus you can use the Aegis to give you cover on your vehicles if you fail to get first turn.
Yeah, totally agree with what you're saying. I absolutely must have first turn. Fortunately, most people still under-rate Sisters out here so I should be pretty set for the 3 games this list would actually be used for (local tourney).
If I do end up with turn 2 I can outflank the Doms and give the Seraphim scout instead, or even give a BSS scout and have them outflank too.
If I go back to an aegis line, instead of a bastion, I will probably swap the Vets for a Platoon (since they now have guaranteed cover). This also gives Creed some others to order around... Or, I could keep the Vets, and drop the Retributors to try and work in 2 Exorcists (since they can take cover behind the line too).
Loving the discussion Pretre, you're making me think and I like it!!! Thanks.
Edit -> As for eliminating Jacobus, 4 Crusaders with FNP is a tough nut to crack, especially if I move their rhino to provide some LOS blocking cover in t2. I just need Jaccy and the Assassins to survive, so even if 3 or 4 of the crusaders die I will be all set. People will need to shoot Jacobus, or the dominions, and splitting fire will ensure at least something survives (assuming the dice do not completely hate me). It buys time for Celestine and the Seraphim to get up for turn 3 trouble, as well as the BSSs. I'm hoping it is a solid 1-2 punch, not to mention if I come up against a flier-heavy list... I have a chance of tabling them before the fliers come on. Even if I do not table them, the majority of my army is on their side of the board making the fliers fly over to shoot at my... guardswomen behind an aegis line? Yup, that works for me
I would do platoon w/ACs, aegis with Icarus, creed + lasc + rets.
MoO would be good for this list as well to make them spread out and potentially deploy poorly putting them into your hands. If you plan on outflanking at all, grab an Astropath.
Fast Attack Seraphim Squad
-->3 Extra Sisters, 2 Hand Flamers, Eviscerator on superior
Dominion Squad
-->2x Meltagun, Multimelta Immolator w/Dozer Blade
Dominion Squad
-->2x Meltagun, Multimelta Immolator w/Dozer Blade
Heavy Support Retributor Squad
-->4x Heavy Bolter
I have 40 points left over.
-I can add a sister to carry a simlacrum for the Rets (and give the Superior a stormbolter) and have 5 points to burn
-I can upgrade the 2 autocannons to lascannons in the Infantry squads and give the CCS camo cloaks
-I can add 2 more Seraphim and an autocannon to the PCS (leaning towards this)
-I can add an Astropath to the CCS and add an autocannon to the PCS (this is a close second)
Hell, I can do a lot of things with 40 points... Thoughts on 2 more Seraphim vs an Astropath? I have only played with 10 strong Seraphim squads lately, so I am unsure if I would really notice a difference running an 8 strong squad or not.
He has the Shield of Faith rule, does that transfer over to units he joins?
I'm confused about this because he already has a rosarius that gives him a 4+ invulnerable save, so why would he need Shield of Faith if that can't transfer to units he joins?
Shield of Faith is a personal rule that almost every sisters unit just has, the wargearr is just extra. It will not transer to any squad he joins, not even sure where you got the idea it would.
It'll actually come in useful on rare occasions too, such as if he gets shot by a shieldbreaker round and loses the 4+ invun.
My IG-Sisters pairing did not have a pleasurable first outing. I got blasted off the table by a deathmark-cryptek list with Obyzon and Z-whatever (the guy who can swap USRs for units).
By turn 4 I had 4 guardsmen and one vendetta left.
So I am wondering if I was using my Sister allies incorrectly. I was probably using the guard incorrectly, but at least I have more experience there to overcome my bad strategy.
How do people use their full Sister's lists? What are the key units in the codex? Are the BS squads really just dead weight or can they be used well?
I probably ended up trying to use them more like marines then T3 ladies who happen to have power armor.
Need slightly more information to help ya out bogalubov - what did you list look like? What did you do with your units? What did your opponent do to kill them?
Your broader questions have been answered many, many times throughout the thread. Give it a once-over. Our fast attack and heavy support slots are key, BSS are essentially a necessary evil we deal with to use our FA and HS gems. They are definitely useful, but need to be used in conjunction with other units in your list to have great success.
In IG terms, you are paying for a veteran squad with greater durability (better armor, higher lead), and better guns standard. Treat them like guardsmen who magically roll amazingly well on their armor/lead saves and you are not far off.
IG have cheaper suicide/melta squads, and you have many squads that can die in cc just as well as the BSS for cheaper. What that leaves is holding ground that is far enough out that an assault unit would have to go a turn or two out of it's way to deal with them, but close or important enough (objective) that it can't be ignored entirely. In that kind of spot, they are far harder to budge than guardsmen, can put out better fire, and are generally a pain in the tuckus for the enemy.
That's useful, but the real meat of SoB allies are going to be what you choose to take elsewhere.
The mission was a Nova style affair. Table quarters, objectives, kill points. I kept all my tanks/transports together and moved up the center without having too many targets to shoot at the first turn. The blob with Uriah was on the right holding an objective/table quarter on some terrain. Second turn all his stuff came in and he Night Scythesed/Warrior glanced (they had tank hunter) my transports and tanks. The death marks roasted my blob and another death mark unit whittled down a sister squad. I failed a charge with my blob against the deathmarks thanks to being templated and wounded on a 2+. The vendettas got one hull point of his Night Scythes. On the following turn he basically killed everything I had left.
My biggest mistake was probably trying to take the center. I should have stayed put in a corner and spread out a little to keep deep striking to a minimum.
The mission was a Nova style affair. Table quarters, objectives, kill points. I kept all my tanks/transports together and moved up the center without having too many targets to shoot at the first turn. The blob with Uriah was on the right holding an objective/table quarter on some terrain. Second turn all his stuff came in and he Night Scythesed/Warrior glanced (they had tank hunter) my transports and tanks. The death marks roasted my blob and another death mark unit whittled down a sister squad. I failed a charge with my blob against the deathmarks thanks to being templated and wounded on a 2+. The vendettas got one hull point of his Night Scythes. On the following turn he basically killed everything I had left.
My biggest mistake was probably trying to take the center. I should have stayed put in a corner and spread out a little to keep deep striking to a minimum.
You already know your mistake. Most SOB builds dont do well with nothing to shoot. A lot of the units are reactionary BSS are one of those. Remember they are Vets with Power armor LOL. I have run them on foot and meched up they should becoming into play turn 3 to 7 if your in the thick with them before that you have a good chance of dropping like flies. They dont do well just out in the open by themselves either they need to be supporting an element.
Funny that most of the specail characters (hell, pretty much all) don't really get me excited... I think their only real claim to fame is that they're actually cheaper / better than the regular HQ options. xD
My only issue with that list, and maybe I'm just partial to the exorcist, is that it seems like all of your Ap 1/2 is concentrated on a melee based walker. Would it be too terrible to drop a pentient unit to build in an exorcist?
Yeah, 9 PEs is scary. Personally? I would recommend swapping the Repentia for Dominions (and dropping the Immo's from the sister squads).
Scout the Dominions up to get some melta (PEs have flame templates covered ) in your opponent's face immediately. This forces your opponent to focus on the suicide Doms for at least a turn, buying your PEs some precious time to navigate the table. Otherwise, even with 9, being really the only "armor" you have I am not sure enough will make it into combat with something to make a difference.
Ovion wrote: Funny that most of the specail characters (hell, pretty much all) don't really get me excited... I think their only real claim to fame is that they're actually cheaper / better than the regular HQ options. xD
At 1500 you might pull it off, just because there's not as much shooting. Beware though - against an army that likes to camp in back and shoot, you won't have much fun. I love all those units, but they are fragile, relatively slow, and have no range. I rely pretty heavily on distractions to keep fire off them - which generally means fast attack or heavy support slots. I also never walk my Reps without a vehicle or Seraphim squad to escort them. It might work, but my gut has always told me not to try it out. I've run the 9 PE, maxed Reps list - it either works BIG or some IG gunline player starts giving you condescending advice you are in no mood to hear as you pack away model after model.
Hollowman wrote: it either works BIG or some IG gunline player starts giving you condescending advice you are in no mood to hear as you pack away model after model.
Why can't people let me play my army? I mean if I needed someone to tell me how to play my army then 9/10 I probably wouldnt be playing it myself. I got this when I did the last Ard' and I took 3rd crons. Some Eldar Player did a last turn snatch and grab to contest every objective but one and I lost. I mena, there was only so much one could do against that many skimmmers while 3rd necrons.
So, and bear with me as I'm still learning sisters here, the only reason Cannonesses are considered bad is because their cost is almost the same as special characters that have special abilities right? Because other than the cost thing, they still appear to be solid choices if one truly wanted to run them.
Is there something I'm missing here? I'm not worried about making an uber face smhshing list, as I'm just taking the sisters for fun games and would like to take a normal canoness for fluff and modeling reasons more than anything. I know you can stick her on a quad gun but I'd much rather use her running around with a squad or something like she's "supposed" to be doing.
As far as I can see, it's because a reasonably kitted out Cannoness / Ecclesiarchy Priest isn't as good and costs more than the equivalent Special Characters.
Almost completely opposite to every other codex! : D
MrMoustaffa wrote:So, and bear with me as I'm still learning sisters here, the only reason Cannonesses are considered bad is because their cost is almost the same as special characters that have special abilities right? Because other than the cost thing, they still appear to be solid choices if one truly wanted to run them.
Is there something I'm missing here? I'm not worried about making an uber face smhshing list, as I'm just taking the sisters for fun games and would like to take a normal canoness for fluff and modeling reasons more than anything. I know you can stick her on a quad gun but I'd much rather use her running around with a squad or something like she's "supposed" to be doing.
pretre wrote:They are costly. They have no clear role as they do not shoot or assault very well. Their faith power has a very limited role.
The only thing they are good at is getting a Command Squad or babysitting an ally.
Ovion wrote:As far as I can see, it's because a reasonably kitted out Cannoness / Ecclesiarchy Priest isn't as good and costs more than the equivalent Special Characters.
Almost completely opposite to every other codex! : D
Pretty much the above. What does a Canoness really do for us? Not much. In order to compete with the cheap cost of the other SCHQ choices, a Canoness would need to do something amazing (which she doesn't) or cost significantly less point-wise (which she doesn't). The one quick and easy "fix" I see that would maybe make her worth it would be that taking a Canoness would allow Celestians to be taken as troops. But that's just wish-listing at this point.
ok so its mainly that are just way better priced things in that slot. Kind of like how every IG fast attack choice is just completely over shadowed by the vendetta. I'll probably use her a bit then, since I dont really want to use the special characters if I can. If I ever do take them to a tourney, I might take that Uriah guy, but that'd be about it.
Thanks guys, just wanted to know what to expect. Now I know not to be amazed, but she's not as bad as something like ratlings
Anybody got any tips for fun loadouts to try with her?
MrMoustaffa wrote: ok so its mainly that are just way better priced things in that slot. Kind of like how every IG fast attack choice is just completely over shadowed by the vendetta. I'll probably use her a bit then, since I dont really want to use the special characters if I can. If I ever do take them to a tourney, I might take that Uriah guy, but that'd be about it.
Thanks guys, just wanted to know what to expect. Now I know not to be amazed, but she's not as bad as something like ratlings
Anybody got any tips for fun loadouts to try with her?
Just put her with power axe and power sword and a rosary with celestines and Uriah....LOL
MrMoustaffa wrote: ok so its mainly that are just way better priced things in that slot. Kind of like how every IG fast attack choice is just completely over shadowed by the vendetta. I'll probably use her a bit then, since I dont really want to use the special characters if I can. If I ever do take them to a tourney, I might take that Uriah guy, but that'd be about it.
Thanks guys, just wanted to know what to expect. Now I know not to be amazed, but she's not as bad as something like ratlings
Anybody got any tips for fun loadouts to try with her?
Just put her with power axe and power sword and a rosary with celestines and Uriah....LOL
Last i checked she can only get a power sword.
I was thinking about power sword/eviscerator just for the heck of it. and a rosarius of course.
A canoness would be nice with a jump pack. The lack of this option is the most annoying/silly thing in the WD dex, especially compared with the options marine vanilla HQs get. The second most annoying thing is dropping seraphim to I3.
MrMoustaffa wrote: ok so its mainly that are just way better priced things in that slot. Kind of like how every IG fast attack choice is just completely over shadowed by the vendetta. I'll probably use her a bit then, since I dont really want to use the special characters if I can. If I ever do take them to a tourney, I might take that Uriah guy, but that'd be about it.
Thanks guys, just wanted to know what to expect. Now I know not to be amazed, but she's not as bad as something like ratlings
Anybody got any tips for fun loadouts to try with her?
Double Pistol as pretre stated is fun and somewhat viable now with Gunslingers. If you want cheap but can do something, take a Combi-weapon. When I ran Canonesses, I usually had them kitted out with Inferno Pistol and Eviscerator and Rosarius. Really depends on how many points you want to spend on her, what role she is going to have, and with whom (if anyone) she's going to roll with. You can make a somewhat shoot-y Canoness or a somewhat CC-oriented Canoness or a mix somewhere in between. Running her with Repentia? Take an Eviscerator. Attaching her to BSS? Take a Combi/Pistol that fits that squads role. Catching a ride with Celestians? Pistol and Power Weapon. But again, this is based on taking the less "optimal" options we have for HQ. Have fun with it!
troy_tempest wrote: The second most annoying thing is dropping seraphim to I3.
Unless I am mistaken, and someone correct me if I am, the reason we are mainly I3 is that, Whereas marines "Wear" power armor like clothes, we are far from super human so we do less "wearing" and more "Carrying". I belive the I3 is supposed to represent that we are not superhuman like them, and we suffer for that by bearing the armors weight.
Alright so I need some help, love playing the sisters and have been having a good run with them, not a perfect win rate but still damn nice. Except against one army. Grey knights I can handle, Necrons I can handle, Blood Angels, Space marines, orks, etc. Most everything I seem to be able to do well against, except Tyranids.
Tyranids is the one army I seem to be having the most trouble with and I'm looking for advice. Not really after list help but more just general strategies, target priorities and ways to deal with things like Ymgarls & a swarm lord.
Vindicare-Obsession wrote: Pre- When are you planning on doing that SW/Sisters combo? I'd love to hear how it turns out.:
Painting it now. 4 rd event on oct 13th. I'll let you guys know. Just won a store rtt yesterday with biker orks lol.
Played the SW/Sisters combo in my garage yesterday against 90 shoota boys, 2 dakkajets, 4 MANZ, Warboss, Lootas, Tankbustas, Aegis, Weirdboy. Crusade with 5th edition quarters deployment. Yikes, Aegis is nasty. Made a lot of boys evaporate, GH with Priest didn't come in until Turn 4. Ugh. Bastion got blown up by the S10 Melta power and I lost 13 sisters to the blast. Pulled out a win on 6, game went to 7. I was losing on 5. Couldn't make a save to save my life, but my turn 6 luck completely turned it around. Rets were champs. SB on the Superior took the last two wounds off the Warboss. Ignored the fliers and focused on troops. Celestine was insane.
Overall, a great test game and it gives me some things to work on for the event.
Madcat87 wrote: Alright so I need some help, love playing the sisters and have been having a good run with them, not a perfect win rate but still damn nice. Except against one army. Grey knights I can handle, Necrons I can handle, Blood Angels, Space marines, orks, etc. Most everything I seem to be able to do well against, except Tyranids.
Tyranids is the one army I seem to be having the most trouble with and I'm looking for advice. Not really after list help but more just general strategies, target priorities and ways to deal with things like Ymgarls & a swarm lord.
Hmmm.... If you are playing against swarm nids you really shouldnt have a problem.... just flame the crap out of everything. Nid-Zilla is a different story. The biggest problem I have with Nid-Zilla is that only one of my armies can handle the sheer number of multi-wound models on the field. If Nid-Zilla is your bane the only thing you can really keep in mind to help you out is that an exorcist will ID warriors (Which are very expensive to lose). Other than that, you have a problem on your hands because only my GK's can handle Nid-ZIlla. My sisters have never won a game against that kind of list.
1500 points though I play some variation of this depending on the points level.
HQ:
Saint Celestine
Troops:
BSS - Flamer, Meltagun, Superior w/Combi-melta, Power Sword, Melta bombs, Repressor
BSS - Flamer, Meltagun, Superior w/Combi-melta, Power Sword, Melta bombs, Repressor
Fast:
Seraphim Squad - 5 additional Seraphim, 2 x Dual hand flamers, Superior w/Melta bombs, Power sword
Dominion Squad - Flamer, Melta, Superior w/Combi-Melta, Melta bombs, Immolator w/TL-Multi-melta, Searchlight
Dominion Squad - Flamer, Melta, Superior w/Combi-Melta, Melta bombs, Immolator w/TL-Multi-melta, Searchlight
Heavy:
Retributor Squad - 3 additional Retributors, 4 x Heavy Bolter, Simulacrum Imperialis, Superior w/Storm bolter
Exorcist - Searchlight
Fortification:
Aegis Defence Line - Quad-gun
This is the list I've been running recently and having some good luck with but have yet to play it against nids. I know on paper this looks like I should have no problems so I figure it must be something to do with my tactics. I have noticed recently that when I'm too aggressive with my Seraphim on the initial turns they get destroyed so I've been holding them back behind the Aegis and playing more reactively with them once the enemy is closer. Perhaps I should be doing that with the rest of my army.
Not sure what the cost of a repressor vs rhino is but if you drop out some if your upgrades (power swords on S3 models are rarely worth it) you might be able to get another Exo. Nids are mostly just shoot the big ones. Most of the time we have enough ap1 that big bugs don't last long.
Power swords are just there to fill out points, can't say they ever get used. Dropping the Repressors to Rhino's would be a hard choice as I've had really good success with them but that plus dropping a lot of other upgrades that generally don't get used I could potentially squeeze in another Exorcist. I will consider it.
pretre wrote: Not sure what the cost of a repressor vs rhino is but if you drop out some if your upgrades (power swords on S3 models are rarely worth it) you might be able to get another Exo. Nids are mostly just shoot the big ones. Most of the time we have enough ap1 that big bugs don't last long.
Seconded. If you are already taking Melta Bombs, which can now be used on MCs, why take Power Swords on S3 models? Save yourself some points and drop them. Also, the Exorcist is one of the few vehicles we do not want to have a Search Light. I would recommend removing it. Also dunno on the point cost of a Repressor. Depending on how attached you are to your Repressors (and how many more points they are compared to a Rhino) you could downgrade your Repressors to Rhinos, drop the Power Swords, and possibly one or two of the "extra" bodies in your Ret Squad to get either another Ret Squad or another Exorcist. Either would be a good choice IMO, but the 2nd Ret Squad would stretch your Faith Points that much thinner.
Ymgarls will pretty much be able to assault and kill one unit unless you stay away from all terrain. You may get lucky with the Nid player getting poor rolls for charge range or you may get lucky on some Overwatch, but otherwise prepare to lose one unit to them and then kill them with fire/bolter shots. The Swarmlord can be another challenge. Just try to get some good shooting in with your Rets and Exorcists at range giving minimal, if any, cover. Enough high Str, low AP shots will down him. Celestine can try to tackle him or some of the other big bugs, but she will most likely be ID'd after a round of combat or two if you're lucky. As a general rule of thumb with Nids, do shoot the big ones first. Most of the smaller Nids will die to good ol' Bolter rounds. I hope this helps and good luck to you.
They also have 6 basic + 1 standard fire point, Storm Bolter and Heavy Flamer.
Apart from being 15pts more and ugly as sin (It's a box, on a box, oh the boxiness of imperial vehicles!) it's head and shoulders better than a Rhino, and will be doubly useful against hordes.
I never understood that about the Repressors, standard weapons If a fire point is a fire point why cant I just fire normal and special weapons out? Its not Im saying firing 4 HB from it but I should be able to fire flamers and melta guns out of them... If they did that I would but 3 of them on the field just for Dominions and not think twice about the price tag.
What do you mean? I thought you could always fire whatever you wish from a fire point. Doesn't stop IG from firing 3 plasma guns and an autocannon out of a 3 foot wide hatch on chimeras
pretre wrote: Chimera used to in previous editions, but I think the Repressor is all that is left.
Just how much stuff did they remove in the change from the old codex to the WD one? I know it was a fair amount of stuff.
Also, a random question, but it lists we can buy an immolator for our regular sister squads... yet we cannot fit the squad in the vehicle even at minimum amount of sisters.
Do you just buy it seperately and have it run around in that case, or is it illegal to buy for the sisters squad and I'm just reading the WD wrong?
pretre wrote: Chimera used to in previous editions, but I think the Repressor is all that is left.
Just how much stuff did they remove in the change from the old codex to the WD one? I know it was a fair amount of stuff.
Inquisition stuff?
Allied IG Inquisitor Lord/Inquisitor/Karamazov
Henchmen Squads (Although Crusaders were retained in Battle Conclaves)
Assassins
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
Chimeras (IST and Inquisitors only)
Orbital Strike
You'll note that all of that can still be taken as allies, so we lost nothing.
Rea Sistersl Losses?
Wargear for the Canoness (Cloak, Jump Pack, etc)
Palatine
Also, a random question, but it lists we can buy an immolator for our regular sister squads... yet we cannot fit the squad in the vehicle even at minimum amount of sisters.
Do you just buy it seperately and have it run around in that case, or is it illegal to buy for the sisters squad and I'm just reading the WD wrong?
Went to a tournament the other week, out of 85 players in the 40K section I ended up in 4th place over all. Not too bad for a SoB! Out of five games I got four solid wins against a Nidzilla, a Tau/SM alliance, an IG-mech and finally Eldar/Tau. Only got beaten by an all Tzeench daemons list. I knew I had lost that game the moment my opponent opened his box. I would rather face a Necron flying circus than 3xScreamers and 3xFlamers ever again. Seriously, how do you beat Tzeench spammed daemons with SoB? It should be mentioned that my daemon opponent was a swell guy and it was all in all a good game. But it bothers me that if GW and their WD-updates can do that to a couple of units, then why the heck didn't SoB get anything near the love that screamers and flamers received?
In all honesty I got really, really lucky at the tournament in general! I won every single roll for first turn which helped out a lot. That, and not many players are familiar with all the tricks we have in our pockets
Apart from it being an event that was fun and very well organized, I was again struck by how little tactics and skill matters in the end in 40K. It is pretty much down to picking one of the most recent codices, use only the most broken units and then spam them if you want to win :( I know that this is how the tournament scene works, no matter where you are in the world, but it is still a bit sad that you know in advance that you will have NO chance to win any major tournament. I used to be a fencer, not a very good one I must add, but it was fun Above all else I loved that it boiled down to SKILL, even if it meant that I lost a lot more than I won. You tried to outsmart your opponent, make the unexpected move, feint and parry, fooling him or her... the bout was a fight, a challenge. You won or lost because of YOU! But 40K... Some of the lists people bring... It is like standing on the piste, raising your blade and saluting your opponent... only to realize that the other guy is pulling up a 9mm semi-automatic and starts firing before the judges has even started the bout. Yeah, that was fun! Where is the skill in that? Where is the challenge? Where is the fun?
Not surprizingly, the tournament was won by a Necron flying circus...
Im surprised he had an issue with the tzeench list to be perfectly honest. Flamers kinda destroy units that have to get close but dont assault. Im in with pretre, what list did you run?
Not to mention a win against nid-zilla is quite impressive as a SoB player. Well done on placing 4th.
The way to beat a Tzech list is focus fire on his troops and drop them with mass fire power. As for the flammers you have to spread out and minimize the amount of templates he can over lap with. Its not impossible but It is a tough fight.
I already posted something similar on the army list thread, but Hey everyone, but I'll be taking my Sisters to a tournament on the 21st (1500 points), and I know for a fact that I'll be facing plenty of the new Chaos Marines as well as Necrons. I'm trying to decide between the two following lists:
Saint Celestine- 115
10 Battle Sisters- meltagun, heavy flamer, Veteran Sister- 155
-Rhino- 35
10 Battle Sisters- meltagun, heavy flamer, Veteran Sister- 155
-Rhino- 35
10 Battle Sisters- meltagun, heavy flamer, Veteran Sister- 155
-Rhino- 35
7 Seraphim- 2 hand flamers, Sister Superior w. eviscerator- 175
5 Dominions- 2 meltaguns, Sister Superior- 90
-Immolator- twin-linked multi-melta- 80
6 Retributors- 4 heavy bolters- 97
Exorcist- 135
Exorcist- 135
Aegis Defence Line- quad gun- 100
1497
The overall plan is, Battle Sisters zoom up and provide fire support/grab objectives where necessary, while Celestine and the Seraphim fly up, roast stuff with massed flamer templates, provide disruption with hit and run, and generally be a big scary threat. The Retributors will camp out behind the Aegis line with the quad gun, and, with the Exorcists, will provide fire support. Finally, the Dominions will try to be nice and sneaky and hopefully destroy a big enemy tank or two after Outflanking.
As an alternative, I've also been considering this list:
This list allows me to play with outflanking Retributor shenanigans a little more, and buffs up the Seraphim a little, but is also riskier for only having two scoring units.
Any thoughts? In particular:
-Which list do you think looks better?
-Heavy flamers or multi-meltas on the Immolators? The same goes for the Dominions- are they generally better off with flamers or meltas?
-meltaguns or flamers for the Battle Squads?
-Would you say a simulacrum would be worth it for the Retributors?
-I know for a fact that I'll be dealing with Necrons and the new Chaos Space Marines, so any tips on how to deal with either would be appreciated. In particular, advice on dealing with Wraith-stars or giant CSM blobs would be great.
Criticisms and comments, as always, are welcome. Any changes you think I should make to either list would also be great.
Hey guys, hoping for some advice for an allied detachment to bring my 1500 Sisters list up to 2K. I would like to use Space wolves as I have quite a few models available, and would like a stronger scoring unit option for mid-table. Currently I run the following core list at 1,485 points:
Celestine
2x BSS with flamer + MM, and VSS with combiflamer
2x 5-man Dominions with 2 melta, VSS with combiflamer in immos with TLMM
10 Seraphim with 2 hand flamers
2x Exorcists
10 Retributors with 4 HB ADL with Quad Gun
I'm debating adding some of the following options:
1) Rune Priest + 2 units of Grey Hunters in Drop Pods; gear load-out flexible to meet points (probably just Flamers because I'm pretty solid on anti-tank with the Dominions & Exorcists). Not sure if I would put the RP in a Pod with one squad, or camp him behind the ADL to use Lightning and provide Psyker defense.
or
2) Prescience Rune Priest with 6 Long Fangs camped behind my ADL with the retributors, + 1 Unit of Grey Hunters in Pod or Rhino. Extra points would let me take a WG with TDA and pretty extensive war gear.
Alternatively, I could drop 1 Exorcist to make space for the Long Fang unit with Rune Priest and 2 GH squads...
Yep. Plus 2 of the 4 objective missions allow other scoring. At 1500, 2 sister squads is a lot.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just won in a tourney at 1850 with 3 missions being 4+ objectives with 2 10 man GH and a sister squad. If you murder his scoring, you still win.
Fast
10 x Seraphim - 2 x Two Hand flamers, Superior w/Meltabombs
Dominion Squad - Flamer, Melta, Superior w/Combi-Melta, Immolatorw/TL Multi-melta
Dominion Squad - Flamer, Melta, Superior w/Combi-Melta, Immolatorw/TL Multi-melta
Heavy
Exorcist
Exorcist
8 x Retributors - 4 x HB, Similacrum Imperialis, Superior w/Stormbolter
Fortifications
Aegis Defence Line w/Quad-gun
First round Major win against Tyranids. Dawn of War/Purge the Alien
Your advice really helped guys and was able to pull this off quite easily. I just sat back for most of the game and made him come to me and my patience paid off. As soon as his Hive Tyrant was out in the open I put everything I had into it and from the point on his army slowly crumbled.
Second round Major loss against Necrons. Hammer & Anvil/The Emperor's Will
No flyers but so many damn scarabs, I know my biggest mistake here was deploying all the way up giving me only one round of shooting before he was on me. What I should have done was set up all the way back and make him come to me and then rely on my Dominions to contest/hold his objective while he was all they way on my side of the board.
Third Round Maojr Win against Blood Angels. The Scouring/Vanguard Strike
I was very confident going into this round with 8 scouring units on the field to my opponents 3 and I was up against a primarly melee army with minimal heavy weapons. Best moment of the game was where I took a risk turn 2 with my BSS squad and my quad gun with two assault marine squads nearby. My retributors had already been killed but the gun still had a wound on it and he still had a stormraven to come in. I jumped the sisters out and got them onto the quad gun fully expecting them to die next turn but not before taking down the stormraven the turn it came in AND killed the sanguinary guard inside leaving the librarian all by his lonesome self.
Fourth Round Minor loss against Grey Knights. Big Guns Never Tire/Hammer & Anvil
A very close game and came right down to the last roll I played this one a bit smarter and made sure to deploy just out of range of his henchmen with plasma cannons making them useless for most of the game and my over all strategy was to hold back until turn 5 where I would make a mad dash for the two objectives in my deployment and the one in the middle. The amount of firepower I had meant that he didn't go anywhere near the middle and left it fairly open for me. The end of the game came down to Celestine surviving combat to contest one of his objectives and my BSS making it to the objective in the middle. I needed both to succeed to win, one to succeed for a tie but unfortunately both failed for a loss.
Fifth Round Major Win against Space Marines. The Relic/Dawn of War
A horde of footslogging space marines with no cover anywhere near the relic, I was looking foward to this and it went exactly as you would expect. I sat back and just kept peppering the marines with bullets and as soon as they got close enough Celestine and Co. lept over the barricade and wiped out the squad of termies. They did die the very next turn with so many marines bearing down on them but all that did was leave 20 marines sitting in perfect flamer template formation. Game ended after we rolled for turn 7 and my opponent conceded as all he had was a single attack bike with my two exorcists + friends staring at him.
Overall I did better than I expected for my first tournament outing with the Sisters finishing 18th out of 47.
By shooting the hell out of them, I think I killed 7 of them through everything in range shooting at them then tried my luck in assault actually killing another one. Next turn I got assaulted by the rest of the marines and died but popped right back up ready for flaming.
So I ended up bringing this list to Guardian Cup, 15 folks showed with 4 games, book missions:
Wolf Priest w/ SotH
Rune Priest
Lone Wolf (CF/SS, TDA)
Lone Wolf (TH/SS, TDA)
10 GH - Melta x2, Standard, MotW 10 GH - Plasma x2, Standard, MotW Long Fang Pack (5 ML)
Long Fang Pack (5 ML)
Long Fang Pack (5 ML)
Bastion with Icarus
Celestine
10 Sisters with M/MM 8 Seraphim w/ 2HF, MB 8 Retributors w/ 4 HB, Storm Bolter (SS), Simulacrum
Game 1 - vs DA/SM - Crusade, 5 Objectives, 5th Edition Table Quarters Deployment
Big LOS blocker mid table which definitely made things interesting. My GH and a squad of long fangs ran up the right short board behind a huge LOS blocker there. Celestine went down to a charge from DW only to pop back up and become a challenge machine, taking out his allied HQ. Rets were on fire! in this game and took out probably 5-8 terminators (including Belial) with rends. Outflanking squad came behind his combat squads on his objective and cleared out his objective. Big win for me. I think 3 objectives, warlord and linebreaker.
Game 2 - vs New Chaos - Big Guns, 5 Objectives, Vanguard Strike
Helldrake is pretty funny. Zoom in, vector's a seraphim, burns 3 or 4 long fangs. Nothing you can do about that (short of interceptor, which missed). Long fangs took it down on my turn.
His MoN Oblits were scoring, as was his Forgefiend, which led to some interesting situations. Outflankers again cleared an enemy objective, but I f'd up movement and they didn't take it. (DOH!) His MoN bikers with lord got murdered by Seraphim shooting and then a dual charge from Lone Wolf (ate the overwatch and challenged the lord) and Seraphim. Celestine chopped up bikers and the lord took the challenge. Sergeant intervened on next phase only to get chopped down. He had murder sword on the Lord but Celestine saved against it. After that, his Plague marines would not die and took one objective. Rune Priest got the scoring warlord trait so took one with some Long Fangs. Grey hunters assaulted and contested the middle objective. Sisters had another.
2 Objectives, Warlord, Linebreaker, first blood, I believe. (Should have been 3 objectives, lol)
Game 3 - vs Nids - Purge the Alien - Dawn of War
Poor guy. This was my game to lose. Deployment was Dawn of war with a huge 3 floor ruin on either side. I put my entire army except Celestine/Seraphim in a ruin and a bastion. Spread out in ruin to prevent Ymgarls. He just had to walk across. Good iron arm rolls and poor target priority (why was I shooting at T9???) kept things alive longer than necessary and KP's low. A sisters squad got murdered in the ruins by gaunts, Swarmlord and guard got shot down by long range fire. Long fang squad got sniped by Biovores (seriously!) and the Rune Priest jumped off the bastion, took a wound and regrouped. My outflankers came in and were pretty useless and we both thought linebreaker was table half not deployment zone, so I missed a point.
I got Warlord, Swarm, Guard, Ymgarls. He got Sisters, Long Fangs, First Blood, Linebreaker. DRAW.
Game 4 - vs Nids - Scouring, 6 objectives, Hammer and Anvil
3 Tervs and 120 models+ other bodels (2 big gargs and tons of gaunts). Ouch. Celestine was a champ and got back up three times. Hit and run was key with the Seraphim who jumped out of combat with Gaunts and got into combat with Hive guard on the 4 point objective. a Lone Wolf assaulted 20 or so gaunts on a 3 point objective and held for 2 full player turns, contesting at end of game. Celestine got up, assaulted the same hive guard and made 12/13 2+ saves from gargoyles, contesting the 4 point even though the seraphim died. Outflankers held like champs and ate a lot of gaunts but died to the HQ Terv. Wolf Priest held the Terv in place though at end of game. T9 is a bitch.
I got Fast Attack (Gargs), 3 Point, First Blood, Linebreaker. He got 3 Point, Fast Attack (Seras). So win by 3. Celestine's performance made it a 5 point swing (4 point obj and Line breaker). She was a beast all day. I think she killed 4-5 guys in challenges (Chaos Lord, 1-2 Plague Sergeants, Chapter Master, Tactical Sergeant)
Both my round 3 opponent and I had 3 Wins and a Draw (against each other) so had a bunch of laughs about what the tiebreaker was going to be. It ended up being VPs and I became the newest GC champion! Yay.
I really loved the list and the only thing I want to maybe add/change is to get a ride for the outflanking greyhunters (drop to 9, maybe, or 8 and a wolf guard). It's a tough trade though, because you lose the extra weapon.
You are nothing short of amazing pre. Love the recap. I think I would hate playing against you in a tournament setting. Sounded fun, way to make a name for SoB.
Love seeing a bunch of new faces here! All the lists I saw were really solid hope you guys keep coming round!
Got my second league game in this week with the New list and it still is rocking people left and right. I pulled a KP mission with a vanguard deployment. My opponent ended up scooping at the top of four after a my Dreadknight punched his Necron Lord in the face and he fell over dead, The Score was 8 to 3 at the top of 4 and he decided that he didnt want to play out the rest of the game as I was just wrecking him in the back field. The only thing he could do was pick up 1 KP over the next 2 turns.
Nice, I'll have to tell Jeremy that his GK/SOB list is working well for others. He had a bad day on Saturday where Celestine refused to do her job whereas mine did her job and everyone elses.
@ 1250 points do you guys think that taking IG allies with SoB would be worth it? I really like using my Vendetta but at this low point range I might be spending too much on an allied HQ and Troop to get it. Figuring a basic CCS and single vet squad (both with a Lascannon) thats 160 points on models I dont really care about just to buy the flyer.
Yeah. While the only binding limit is on the second FOC I would follow that idea with allies too. I wouldnt field allies in any game less than 2k but that may just be me.
I thought maybe I was spending too much for a flyer. Thanks for the input!
Next thing, would you use the Avenger Strike Fighter in that low point game? (Obviously im digging flyers) Since Sisters can take it as a HS choice it would be cool, but maybe overcosted at this low point match.
Lastly would you go Bastion/QG or ADL/QG? I hear the merits of both. Im leaning toward the ADL because I can use it for Exorcist vehicle cover.
Looking for a pure Sisters 1850 list, and have come up with this:
Celestine
(All BSS in rhinos with dozer blades)
2x BSSMM Flamer Combi-flamer
BSS 2xMG
BSS Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Combi-flamer
Seraphim (10) w/Handflamers and Eviscerator
2x MG Dom's in MM Immolator
2x Exorcists
Retributors
Aegisline with Icarus
==1890
I need to cut 40 points somewhere. Given I have 4 units that want faith, having no Jacobus makes me sad, but I really need the 4 troop choices for the missions we end up playing. As for the 40 points to cut? Probably going to drop the Icarus lascannon, so that's 35... I was tempted to drop the entire Aegis line, but I like being able to provide 4+ cover to the rhinos at midfield, and/or the exorcists in the back. The other 5 points will either come from the eviscerator, or turning the heavy flamer into another MM-flamer combination (although, I really want to try running a heavy flamer to deal with necron warrior blobs).
That is a ton of BSS. I would drop a rhino with dozer to get your 40 points. Put that squad on the Quad Gun or holding rear objective (2xMG squad) and give them a MM instead of a Melta.
Can't help but think there has to be something better to spend points on than 4 BSS though.
I actually like the idea of dropping the rhino and having those ladies man the gun.... nice.
The need for so many is just a result from the style of missions played - 5 objectives and table quarters for primary and secondary for example, is very hard to do anything but draw on without enough troops. Trust me, I sometimes wish it was just book missions
You know, I think I asked where you were a few pages back. Nice to see you back.
As far as running 5 BSS, I agree with pre. Its bad enough that we have to field 2. 5 is going to be more trouble than they are worth.
I've been playing tyranids since 6th dropped and since they have become quite popular here I want to move away from them and back to sisters again.
A recent tournament coming up lets me give them a try...I want to play sisters/gk but unfortunately I'm struggling for models in that regard. Instead I will most likely try sisters/ig. Is the general opinion that GK adds more for a sisters army these days than IG does? I may be able to borrow some gk...
2k
Celestine
Jacobus
Lord Commissar, power fist (maybe a Primaris Psyker instead?)
6 psykers + overseer
10 sisters, mm/melta/combiplasma
10 sisters, mm/melta/combiplasma
10 sisters, mm/melta/combiplasma
Platoon Command Squad, naked
Infantry Squad, power axe
Infantry Squad, power axe
Infantry Squad, power axe
Infantry Squad, power axe
Infantry Squad, power axe
7 Retributors, 4 heavy bolters
Exorcist, searchlight
Exorcist, searchlight
Plan is to stick jacobus + guard character obviously in the blob, using them as a shield for my sisters on foot to advance behind. Dominions give me some speed to take out annoying targets early on or outflank. Seraphim are pretty good now, obviously with celestine again.
The psyker battle squad is to help against fateweaver who I have struggled with in the past as a sister player..hate that 2 headed chicken!
Question that came up for me in a recent game, the Retributor's AoC rule, being that if one is killed before making attacks, they get their attacks at I1 and then the model is removed. I get that, and understand that. What we're not getting is how this interacts with overwatch. I shot and killed 3 models on overwatch, RAW since it's in the assault phase, they still get their attacks. How would this work, as they aren't in B2B with anything, and are in fact not even in the assault?
BTW, if this has been answered, just toss me a link.
I just played a 1500 list and did really well against Orks. My list was (memory here)
Celestine
Jacobus
2 sister squads with 2 flamers and rhino with twin storm bolter
9 seraphim with 2 dual hand flamers
8 repentia and a mistress
2 excorsist with storm bolters
3 pentinent engines
Enemy list from memory
Warboss with cybork and eavy armor
12 lootas
30 boys with nob and pk 30 ard boys and nob
30 gretchin
2 deffkoptas
1 deffkopta
Ran Celestine with serephim and used her as front going up the field. Ran Jacobus with repentia that jacked a rhino from a bss. And ran the engines up the middle. The repentia did well on the assault with 5 attacks a piece with the help of Jacobus banner with the +1 attack on top of rage. They died quickly after the assault. The engines mopped up 60 boys by the end. Celestine with the seraphim hand flamers gave 31 wounds against grots and killed the warboss. I learned that Jacobus shouldn't be with the repentia even though that many attacks was awesome. I made 7 shield of faith rolls in a row with my opponents dice. All in all a very fun game against Orks. Very happy with the sisters
dpal666 wrote: Question that came up for me in a recent game, the Retributor's AoC rule, being that if one is killed before making attacks, they get their attacks at I1 and then the model is removed.
I get that, and understand that.
What we're not getting is how this interacts with overwatch. I shot and killed 3 models on overwatch, RAW since it's in the assault phase, they still get their attacks.
How would this work, as they aren't in B2B with anything, and are in fact not even in the assault?
BTW, if this has been answered, just toss me a link.
Huh - I've been playing that dying to overwatch is just like dying to fire in the enemy turn, their AoF doesn't apply. But as written in the codex you are right, it looks like they should get to hit. The only argument against it would be that they can't move after dying, so their one hit is invalid, just as if they were not close enough to strike normally. Until somebody covers it in a FAQ, I imagine it might be a point of contention among the type of folks who run YMDC. I'll probably keep playing it as I have, just because that's the way that won't result in a 5 minute argument every game (usually a good way to tell the best interpretation of a rule, to my way of thinking).
Acts of Faith in the assault phase are used right before they strike blows (which would be the fight sub-phase). Which is after they move/get hit by overwatch.
But yeah, better to have that discussion in YMDC in detail.
7 Retributors, 4 heavy bolters
Exorcist, searchlight
Exorcist, searchlight
First of all, Pre is gonna hit me for this but ever since I read "You Know What" in the GK codex I've been struggling to justify playing grey knights at all. That being said, I feel like the IG are a better matchup anyway. I would suggest taking the IG as your main detatchment so you get out of the troops "Tax" for sisters. Shave off the second sisters squad. I would really drop the psykers as well. A buddy of mine has tried running them in the past and they never performed admirably. Even less so now that terrain has specific saves. After you take out those unit, work the list until you can make use of the IG tanks/ordnance because thats what their strength is. You might even just drop the SoB tanks for guard tanks. The idea for IG/SoB, from what I understand, is to use the SoB as an auxilary force to intercept mobile enemy anti armor so that your tanks are well protected. Then you advance up the line with a sisters squad in a rhino while the IG armor cuts down things that would threaten them.
7 Retributors, 4 heavy bolters
Exorcist, searchlight
Exorcist, searchlight
I would argue that IG make a better ally since you get so much for so few slots. As to the list... It's kind of a mess. Starting at the top...
- Drop a sister squad for Points
- Get some long range guns for your Infantry Squads and some guns period for your PCS.
- A couple melta bombs on sgts don't hurt for MC insurance.
- For Doms, either go 10 girls, 4 guns in a rhino or 5 girls, 2 guns in a TL-MM Immo.
- If you already have vehicles on the table, you should probably get rhinos for your sisters. This protects them and provides vehicle target saturation.
- An Aegis or Bastion will be key, probably aegis to give cover to that huge blob.
- Never put searchlights on your exorcists, put them on your Dom rhinos/immos like you did.
- Get a Simulacrum for your Rets. You need their act to go off.
- Seems like a waste not to take some sort of Guard heavy (Manticore, basilisk, etc) or Fast (vendetta)
- Primaris makes a cheaper option and synergizes well with the PBS (Telepathy).
Overall, needs some work, but you have a start.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Re: Repentia, I believe it would not work. You roll at the start of the fight sub-phase according to the FAQ and the models are already dead and removed from the table by then.
I got a league coming up that is DFO I wanted to bring a FoR and Bastion with GK Allies I have 2350 pnts any Ideas? I have a list that I think would work but I dont think I have enough units to fully man the FoR...
Seriously? A FOR and Bastion? Where do you put any terrain? lol.
If you're going to take a FOR, you need to take Eldar allies. FOR Krakstorm plus Exarch with Fast Shot = WIN.
In all seriousness, at 2350, I would take 3 Exos, 3 Retribs, 3 Doms, 1 Seraphim, Celestine, Jacobus and Uriah with 4 Sisters squads. Anything else is just icing. Put the retribs in each of the sections with a HB. Pay for Extra HB if you can.
Might as well go Coteaz + monkeys. i imagine the game will break at that point level, but good luck.
So, my models that I'll be converting into sisters of battle will show up in november, and I realized that i have no clue what to make them. I'll have 45 infantry models available, 5 of which of which are women with melta-ish weapons. For a guy who will mostly use them in small games/ allies, what should I make? Obviously flamers are good, as are meltas, but are there other models I should have ready like heavy bolters and multimeltas? I have tons of almost any weapon imaginable in my IG bits box so I should have no trouble converting whatever weapons i would need. I'm not super concerned about having a tourney list with these gals, as I'll mostly run them for fun. Just wanted to know what to make and what not to make infantry wise. (for example, if you play Ig you NEVER make grenade launchers, as they're terrible.)
I also have a couple of rhinos and was trying to figure out if I should make them into excorcists or immolators. I won't need to use regular rhinos for my sisters squads so it really seems to just be a tossup between those two vehicles as far as i can tell.
First of all, if you arent going to use the rhino build an Immo out of them. Exorcist looks way too cool to not have a giant piano on the top of it
That being said, I find that my most important special weapons, especially now that we have overwatch, are my flamers. If I had to choose between 1 flamer and 1 melta, I would run the flamer. That being said you could run 1 of each in a unit and have them pretty balanced.
As for the heavy weapons, I would use the heavy bolters as having long range anti infantry will help your sisters out a great deal. Your exorcists shold be able to mop up pretty much anything from a good distance so your multi meltas will likely never get their 2d6 armor pen but if you take heavy bolters they will get lots of use just by shooting at the infantry that spill out of a transport after your exorcist cracks it like an egg.
I would probably run TL-Multi Meltas on the Immo because its fast enough to nail armor to the wall with 2d6 pen whiel retaining some safety. It'll help improve yhe effectiveness of your heavy bolters this way.
Hay Pre, your our resident rumor tracker right? Any outlook on a timeframe for plastic love for us?
Been a while since I browsed forgeworld but it certainly looks like sisters is gonna get some flier love in the very near future. Think this airborne tank hunter will find a place somewhere in most sisters lists?
I think they werent with like an A10 thunderbolt type of role so I expect some decent armor on it along with what looks like a big gatling gun and 2 las cannons. Not sure what the rear facing stubber is for but meh.
Nope. I read the stats on it and as far as flyers go its pretty mediocre. Dont get me wrong, it puts out quite a volume of fire, but I really would perfer to put the 150 (base) it costs into some vendettas or valks instead. I think that if oyu have to put 200+ points into an AV 32 model to make it "Good" its going to die before it can make many waves of its own.
I have the avenger and it's basically fragile but has a lot of firepower. An added problem is that it's pretty split between anti-infantry (Avenger Bolt Cannon) and anti-tank (Lascannon).
Been a while since I browsed forgeworld but it certainly looks like sisters is gonna get some flier love in the very near future. Think this airborne tank hunter will find a place somewhere in most sisters lists?
I think they werent with like an A10 thunderbolt type of role so I expect some decent armor on it along with what looks like a big gatling gun and 2 las cannons. Not sure what the rear facing stubber is for but meh.
I'll PM you when I get home :p
On that note - I need some proofreaders for the 'final cut' (absolutely massive formatting + layout overhaul)- please let me know if you're interested in helping.
The Avenger looks sick, pity it's not more points competitive.
Should have 25 sisters done this weekend and my modern immo, Lady Knight Crusader Jeanne Romee is leading the charge though. I couldn't resist finishing her.
FW has always been ok in regular games if your opponent is ok with it, same as now.
In other news, my SoB are in the big Dakka campaign with a 5 for 5 record so far... albeit against a few fluffy armies, along with a few hard cases. Already had to post up batreps for them on the Campaign site, so I'll throw some up on Dakka too sooner or later. Beat the new Chaos dex without too much pain, though Chosen brought enough plasma to give me a serious headache.
Fast Attack Seraphim Squad
5 Extra Sisters
2 Hand Flamers
Eviscerator
Vendetta
Heavy Support Exorcist
Exorcist
Manticore Rocket Launcher (Heavy Bolter swapped to Heavy Flamer)
Some notes: CCS sits behind the Aegis line and uses the Icarus, so that is a 3+ cover save shooting 2 lascannons and the MoO. More often than not they will be ordering themselves to "Bring it down!", along with issuing an order to one of the infantry platoons (if they are close enough). The PCS will fly around in the Vendetta, aiming for a last turn deep strike onto an objective (and/or linebreaker). With only 5 bodies, they should be able to land safely enough. I am torn about the Veteran squad, whether to use a Chimera or Harker. I ended up going with Harker because the flexibility he provides. The ability to infiltrate the plasma-guns whilst simultaneously being able to camp on an objective behind the Aegis line with a 2+ save (stealth from Harker plus camo cloaks from forward sentries) beat out the Chimera. I am excited to use a Manticore, and think it will synergize well with the pair of Exorcists. The storm eagle rocks can take care of AV13 and 14 easily, as well as hordes - freeing up the Exorcists to mop up everything else with Ap1 goodness.
I was initially sad to lose the Dominions I normally run, but reflecting back on past games... they are expensive and tend to just die. Sure, they will pop a tank or two in the process, but they are 350 points for what amounts to 4 free kill points (2 squads of 5 ladies in MM immos). With the Exorcists, Manticore, Vendetta, BSS's MMs, Platoon's Lascannons, and even the MoO... I think I have enough anti-tank. Celestine's Seraph-star, BSS flamers, and the MoO and Manticore provide plenty of anti-horde. So I feel good about my chances against all comers.
Thoughts? Any match-ups which will give the list oodles of trouble?
I'm looking at taking some allies for my sisters (which are still being painted) and wondered what could work. I'm not interested in guard blobs though as painting that many minis would make me go mad.
I'm hoping to get an Avenger Strike Fighter to help on the flyer side with two Exorcists as my heavy support.
I've been looking at the following so far
Imperial Guard - I like the look of the Medusa to help on the anti terminator/vehicle side
Space Marines - Plasma Stern guard in a drop pod and a Predator Executioner (would fill the same roll as the Medusa)
Eldar - Pathfinders, Swooping Hawks and an Exarch manning the quad gun and a Nightwing for my second flyer.
Medusas aren't that great for IG. If you're wanting defense against termis, grab a Demolisher. It's a russ with the same weapon the medusa has, just 12" less range.
May sound like a bad trade, but with AV 14, its far more likely to live long enough to kill those termis than the medusa is.
Plasma kills terminators, valk kills flyers and tanks (and terminators), griffon/basalisk kill everything else. Griffon rerolls scatter then basilisk doesn't scatter. Sisters take care of the rest.
Well yeah but was giving him another option from heavy support that was roughly the same price. I could tell him to take an executioner or a ton of plasma but that's not as similar of a comparison
Thanks I think plasma ccs in a chimera and plasma vets in a chimera will be the base troops.
I'll look into the Demolisher with guard allies I could run a squadron of two, which could be quite fun.
I'm not going to be using the Vendetta though as I'm doing one for my Death Guard allies and I don't like to duplicate models between armies. I'm more into the hobby for the painting and modelling aspect, although I only play at tournaments so need to do okish. Might have to see what the Vulture is armed with as its another option.
Just got back from the 11th company GT was able to pull out a 6th overall and placed 2nd in appearance behind Gabe Dobkins I would have to say that Im slightly disappointed with my overall Generalship, only going 3 and 3 but I had some really hard match ups. My losses came against the 3 by 9 flamer, screamer list Gabe's Assault blood angels and a Eldar wraithguard list with the baron buried in it. Took out a DE eldar allies list, Thousand sons list Grey Knight terminator heavy list. All the games were really close and I had a great time. I have back to back RTTS this weekend and a League game on monday the list is still very solid and Im not going to be changing it anytime soon.
Just finished painting my Sisters for their first tournament tomorrow. Its a 900 points each doubles event, I'm teamed up with a Cortez list of some sort with a couple of Storm Ravens. Should be fun.
Here's a poorly taken army shot of what I'm taking, you can find better individual pics in my Imperium blog linked in my sig.
I feel like the only problem I would have fielding that particular brand of her is now she is saying "Look at how tall I am! Someone shoot me!" I mean I would definatly use her given the choice but I would grumble to myself a bit with the new wound allocation rules if she was the only one visible.
It's generally a case of her being shot and then standing up again to flame something anyway, regardless of how big she is.
EDIT:
In other news, I did a tournament last week and did pretty well. Crushed some necrons (non flying circus variant), basically tied against chaos, but got crushed badly by a Salamander army.
I'm not sure how to deal with 3 vindicators, 3 multi-melta landspeeders, 6 multi-melta attack bikes and a drop pod with 2 combat squads with meltas.
When he seized the initiative he managed to blow up practically everything useful I had in one go. Celestine managed to hold out till turn 5, but we were only playing for keeps then.
Vindicare-Obsession wrote: Touche. I forgot for a moment that she is "expendable" Not that anyone would want to send a face that beautiful off to its death.
Going by fluff and tabletop... everyone can, and does want to kill her repeatedly.
Well, this thread isn't dying but we've pretty much said what we can about Sisters
I'm nearing completion of my army though (I started in January so it will almost have taken a year to paint) and am thinking of some Apocalypse units for sisters. I already have a flyer but I need some heavy HEAVY support.
What kind of Baneblade layout would fit their theme best?
Vulcan Megabolter + flamer sponsons? Heavy Bolter sponsons?
Shandara wrote: Well, this thread isn't dying but we've pretty much said what we can about Sisters
I'm nearing completion of my army though (I started in January so it will almost have taken a year to paint) and am thinking of some Apocalypse units for sisters. I already have a flyer but I need some heavy HEAVY support.
What kind of Baneblade layout would fit their theme best?
Vulcan Megabolter + flamer sponsons? Heavy Bolter sponsons?
Maybe a custom Baneblade (if your local meta allows such) with an inferno cannon. That's what I was considering a conversion of for my sisters.
Just finished up 2 RRTs this weekend. First one didnt go so well for me went 1 and 2 after loosing my first game it was just playing for fun... In game 3 I multi assulted 2 spores and a 2 teries and was able to kill all but eh on tervigon in two rounds fo combat LOL. Ended up getting best painted for that RTT. The one on sunday was a 12 man RTT and went 3 and 0 for a best overall prize was very happy with the results. Had to deal with Vulan Drop pod list game 1, Nurgle chaos guard list game 2 and a Noise Marine Demon list game 3 all were great games and alot of these chaps were either GT players or former Ard boyz players. Had a blast cleared and got some great prizes . Im also in a league that is rapping up that Im in the top 8 for so who knows how thats going to go.
I am 4-0-1 in that right now but when you advance to the top 8 they wipe the record clean and its a win lose thing.
pretre wrote: I've never played apoc or with the superheavies, so no opinions there.
On a separate note, our local badass won a 5 game GT with the Sisters/GK combo. 5 wins, most of them tablings or concessions, iirc.
Very awesome! Who was it that wrecked all that face and what was the point level/list? I just got ahold of a GK codex and was looking for a solid place to start for my allied detachment.
Seraphim Squad
Two extra girls
Two Hand Flamers x2
150
Exorcist
135
Retributer Squad
Heavy Bolter x4
One extra girl
97
Aegis Defence Line
Quad gun
100
My doubles partner was running
Coteaz
Henchman squad of Crusaders and Death Cult Assassins x2
Vindicare Asassin
Stormraven x2
Game 1 vs Eldar and Imperial Guard
They had two Quad guns being manned by Fire Dragon Exarch's with their special crack shot ignore cover shots. Our Stormravens went down quite quickly especially being hunted by two Vendettas as well. Celestine and her girls took out two Warwalker units that outflanked with krak grenades.
It was a good fight but one we didnt stand a chance to win.
Game 2 vs Necrons and Tyranids
We really hammered these guys hard after our 1st game the Exorcist had some fun shooting at the tyranid creature thing that breeds giving it a real head ache while the Stormravens mindstriked them and that finished them both off. After we took out the nids we moved onto the Necron allies.
We won this game quite easily.
Game 3 vs Imperial Guard and Imperial Guard
They started off with a double tank wall it really was quite daunting, we managed to get our Storm Ravens on turn two and held the tank s back with them and the Exorcist while popping off a few Melta shots here and there. Celestine got the personal trait that gave her and her girls outflanking, they worked there way across the table burning all the guardsmen that got popped out of their armoured transports.
We one by tabling them this game.
At the end of day one we were in second place with our first opponent in first place.
Game 4 vs Imperial Guard and Imperial Guard
Now this game as silly they had 4 Vendettas and a Valkyrie and took out our quad gun first turn, we really took a ton of damage but gave as good as we got. At one point Celestine had two Vendettas and the Valkyrie chasing her round the table
We lost due to objectives but it was very close and was only about 80 vp's in it.
Game 5 vs Space marines and Space marines
This game was for kill points and it was a blood fest both our armies met in the middle and there was tanks exploding everywhere and lots of marines and Sisters as well!
We managed to pull a win by one victory point because Celestine got back up in turn 6.
Game 6 vs Imperial Guard and Chaos Space marines
The last game of the second day. We deployed first with the sisters and Coteaz holding one flank and Celestine and a henchman unit holding the other. They deployed down Celestine's end of the table and her and the henchman managed to cause so much damage it was amazing. towards the end of the game my lone Seraphim with hand flamers went after a guard squad after her and Celestine with the help of the death cult assassins killed the CSM commander and his unit. She took out 8 guardsman in one unit from one round of hand flamers and charged the remaining lascannon team but got locked in combat till the end of the game.
Sadly we had to end the game due to time after turn five and lost due to them having an objective, we could have easily won if we went to turn five. When we totalled up victory points they took off us just over 300 and we had killed just over 100 points worth.
We finished the tournament in fourth place with the Eldar and guardsman player from round one going undefeated for the 1st place.
it was a great weekend and I was really impressed with the Sisters performance, I usually play Nurgle CSM so it was a nice change of pace, Celestine really does rock though
One thing I have learned is never leave home with your Sisters without super glue, Seraphim jumpacks are a right pain in the I did expect a few casualties so did bring some along but a few fell off every game was most annoying
One thing I have learned is never leave home with your Sisters without super glue, Seraphim jumpacks are a right pain in the I did expect a few casualties so did bring some along but a few fell off every game was most annoying
Try Penitent Engines sometime! Those little buggers explode if you look at them funny. One time my cat reduced all 9 of the things to their component pieces with one well timed jump.
Well folks, I posted up a BatRep from the Dakka Campaign I was in, with more coming. No idea what I am doing when it comes to BatReps, so feel free to give constructive criticism. No photos either, so apologies for that. Gives an idea how my current army can play on the table, so enjoy.
pretre wrote: You should see my seraphim. Sera jps with swooping hawk wings instead of vanes.
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I hear you, I keep my Seraphim conversions in termie sized foam slots and I've still lost a wing removing them from the foam.
Not sure if I posted that actually. Squad Divine Lightning (my Seraphim) is coming along swimmingly, and since this week is fall break I should get them and my penitent engine done. With any luck and some discipline on my part I can get the rest of the battle sisters done in December, then finish off the army and start on my Infinity troops before returning to school mid january... if I get enough time I might even get to work on my Space Marines ^^
I would like to kick some ideas about super heavies for sisters around though. I'm getting a pair of counts as Warhound Titans from those lovely folks at Dreamforge Games but I want to do something special for my girls... maybe the inferno cannon, some heavy bolters, and the sponsons off the land raider redeemer? throw some melta on there somewhere to wrap it up. Excessive holy flames? No such thing.
I started making a Sisters superheavy cathedral on a baneblade base quite a while back. Played it in one game, but I haven't worked on it at all since I moved earlier this year. It's a fun time though, and I'd recommend building something unique. It'll be for apoc anyway, and superheavies really let you explore big ideas.
pretre wrote: I've never played apoc or with the superheavies, so no opinions there.
On a separate note, our local badass won a 5 game GT with the Sisters/GK combo. 5 wins, most of them tablings or concessions, iirc.
Very awesome! Who was it that wrecked all that face and what was the point level/list? I just got ahold of a GK codex and was looking for a solid place to start for my allied detachment.
The GT winning list from Jeremy Veysseire was:
2000 Points
Celestine
Coteaz
Henchmen - 3 HB, 2 Jokaeros
Battle Sister Squad - MM/Melta, Combi-Plas Battle Sister Squad - MM/Melta, Combi-Plas Seraphim (10) with MB and 2 pair of HF Retributors (5) with 4 HB Exorcist
Exorcist
Strike Squad (10) with Psybolt, 2 Psyc, 1 DH in Rhino with Search
Vindicare
Dreadknight with Heavy Incin, Greatsword and Teleport
Bastion with Icarus
Ive been following this thread with interest for some time now. The tactics and advice on here have been invaluable for myself.
Recently ive been trying to experiment with a few different unit set ups with varying degrees of success, and i was wondering if anyone else had any knowledge advice or opinion about the units ive been running.
Firstly:
BSS - 15 sisters, flamer, multimelta, melta bombs - 205pts
Ive found these units to be massively resilient to most things, especially if camped in cover or behind a defence line. By adding the 5 extra sisters their survivability increases hugely while still being able to throw out a decent amount of close range fire power and the melta shot that still can worry anything heavily armoured as well. I havent been using rhinos for my BSS squads mainly because i find the extra numbers much more useful than the extra moveability. Also for 25pts more than a 10-man squad in a rhino you get 5 more wounds and one less unit(the rhino) that can be easily killed for the "first-blood" objective.
Secondly:
Doms - 10 doms, 4 flamers, +plasma pistol or combi plasma, simulacrum, melta bombs, in a rhino - 230pts
These have been game changing in every game ive run them. Trading the potential armour killy-ness for troop killing has meant i can clear objectives and remove potential scoring units pretty easily. If you combine them with the flexibility of using a comms relay to get them onto the table when you want then they can generally remove a scoring enemy unit very quickly. Also if FA are scoring then then can jump on an objective and sit there knowing that the wall'o'death will make a lot of people at least think twice about charging them. Also these are cheaper than melta-armed doms.
Thirdly:
Rets - 8-10 rets, 4 Heavy Flamers, simulacrum, in a rhino - 236-260pts
In every game ive played with these they have never been left on the board at the end of the game. I think this is great, it shows that my opponent is scared of them...with good reason. They are a real pain for TEQ as the rending ability can really screw them on top of just the amount of wounds they can lay down in a turn. Giving them a rhino means they are also able to quickly get to enemy scoring units and screw them over, or if HS are scoring then they can try and nab an objective if there is one close (never managed this yet). Once they have shown their destructive power these quickly become a huge target for the enemy as, they need to take them out, this grants something else in your army some slack. Yep i know they are expensive, but i dont think they havent made their points back yet in a game ive used them in. Their biggest problem is that heavy bolter rets and exorcists are more flexible. Ive been running 2 units or rets (1 Hflamers, 1 Hbolters) and 1 exorcist with alright success so far.
So is anyone else having fun/success using units in these configurations?
@scrunty:
I agree it is more durable, but not by much. Also, you need units to go take the objective. Sisters don't have a lot of options for that and rhino squads are it.
Rhino Doms are good. I would agree. I wouldn't load up on all the wargear though. Just the flamers and sim should do it.
The 'easy bake oven' is just tooo spendy for what it does. All you have to do is pop their transport and they are stuck holding the bag in the middle of nowhere. If HF were 5 points? Sure, in a heartbeat.
You are right about the lack of mobility for BSS, it has been a problem for me before, but ive found that denying the enemy from taking objectives in my own deployment works out ok for, makes the final score closer, but still able to win. I will struggle with long range enemy firepower, especially blast/barrage weapons, gun lines are not my friends. I found my best results have been against enemies who want to come and kill me up close.
I generally agree on not loading up on wargear, but ive found the extra flexibility that the plasma/melt-bombs give on the doms to be useful. I generally outflank the doms and although they come on the side i want 2 thirds of the time, when the dont the extra flexibility of being able to take out TEQ or light vehicles as well as troops means i can still get them to somewhere useful almost all of the time. But yeah the sister superior does look expensive.
I agree about the transport for the rets, without the transport they lose almost all of their use. The only way ive found of keeping their transport alive is by blocking LOS My best results with the heavy flamer rets has been holding them back as long as possible and then scooting them up at the last moment to clear an objective. 2 of these units plus celestine managed to clear an objective all 20 khorne berserkers, leaving only Kharn with 1 wound left. It denied the enemy a primary objective, but it was 600ish pts vs 400pts.....
I'd love to see a Sister's apoc build. Like a grand crusade of IG, BT's, GKs, and SoB equipped with the best of each army. 5-10k points vs Demons, Renegades, and CSM. Anyone else with me on that idea?
ENOZONE wrote: I'd love to see a Sister's apoc build. Like a grand crusade of IG, BT's, GKs, and SoB equipped with the best of each army. 5-10k points vs Demons, Renegades, and CSM. Anyone else with me on that idea?
That's basically what I'm building at present. I have 6000 odd points of IG, SM and SoB along with a pair of "titans" all I can really think to add is a Baneblade for the IG (and a Manticore while I'm buying and painting stuff) and a custom super heavy for the Sisters. Put the SM on point with the IG and SoB taking the right and left flank, and have the Warhounds at the joints of each force, with the IG and Sisters each having their own Superheavy to make their flanks extra mean. Doubt I'll ever get to run them full tilt like that... my turn alone could take an hour unless I get minions to help me.
ENOZONE wrote: Someday, when I'm rich, I'll take you on. Glory for Chaos!
Funny thing is I lucked into most of these forces one way or another. I picked the Girls up at like 1/4 total value, the SM I cheated with using the new DV sets, the IG were 1/2 value or so all things considered and the titans are DFG Leviathans of which you could get five on the Kickstarter for the price of a single Warhound new from GW and still have some cash left over for spare weapon arms. Pricey, but not as terrible as buying everything new from GW would be... I don't even want to THINK about that.
Getting the two super heavies for the Sisters conversion and for the IG would actually cost me about the same as my total SM force ending up running me.
Ok so I just got my FOR last night and im starting to build a force around it for some play testing, From what I could tell the model has 6 fire points in the front for the stairs the bunkers have emplaced weapons but no fire points for the bunkers and the tower. So I have some questions.
1.Can Coteaz use we knew you were coming from inside a fortification? I wall planning on putting him in the part of the building that has the 6 hard points. If not I was going to use Kyrnoif in there so every one on the ramparts are fearless also.
2. If a dominion squad in on the bunker with the missle silo if I get twinlinking off does that mean my silo is twinlinked?
3.in the book in one section it says that the bunkers come with 1 Heavy bolter already and that you can purchase up to 4 more so does that mean I can have 6 of them?
4.What squad would you place on the upper most tower? I was thinking of putting a Ret squad with 4 HB there and putting 2 more up there so I could fire 6 HBs
5. A second Ret squad would go on the walkway battlements with 2 additional HBolters also.
6. Can Em-placed weapons be targeted? I know Gun emplacements can but it say nothing about Em-placed guns this would lead me to believe that they cant.
Spidey0804 wrote: 1.Can Coteaz use we knew you were coming from inside a fortification? I wall planning on putting him in the part of the building that has the 6 hard points. If not I was going to use Kyrnoif in there so every one on the ramparts are fearless also.
It just allows him an out of sequence shot, right? So yes, it is only 'non shooting' attacks that can't use Fire POints.
2. If a dominion squad in on the bunker with the missle silo if I get twinlinking off does that mean my silo is twinlinked?
Yes. Amusingly, if you take an Exarch with Fast Shot, you can fire two of those suckers per turn. More appropriately, Retributors can give the template rending (very cool with the cheaper shot).
3.in the book in one section it says that the bunkers come with 1 Heavy bolter already and that you can purchase up to 4 more so does that mean I can have 6 of them?
There are no bunker HB before you buy them. There's a missile silo and an icarus. You can buy up to 4 HB though.
4.What squad would you place on the upper most tower? I was thinking of putting a Ret squad with 4 HB there and putting 2 more up there so I could fire 6 HBs
That would be nasty. Although, I think emplaced weapons are only fired by units inside, in which case you put them in the tower. Yeah, page 96, emplaced weapons are used when a building is occupied. Occupied is defined as being inside one of the building sections.
5. A second Ret squad would go on the walkway battlements with 2 additional HBolters also.
Same problem. Put them in one of the side bunkers.
6. Can Em-placed weapons be targeted? I know Gun emplacements can but it say nothing about Em-placed guns this would lead me to believe that they cant.
No, although they can be destroyed if a result from the table says so or if the building is destroyed.
I just got the new wh40k book, and am going to be playing some sisters of battle again this weekend. I noticed that we can now ally with other factions (making the lists on the last couple of pages make a lot more sens).
I have a black templar force that I would want to ally in with sob, Since black templars are awful (well, maybe not compared to sisters) and are desperate allies with sob as well, I bought the space marine codex so I can play space marines in stead.
My question is what space marine models goes well with sob to fill out our weaknesses? I see most lists on the last couple of pages use gk and guards, and I am thinking of getting some guards later on, but right now I just want to save myself the money and use what I have lying around.
I was thinking plasma cannon rather than missiles, any advantage with missiles? I was also considering a librarian for psychic powers, but I also have a chaplain that I want to use as HQ, which would go really well with the termies that pretre recommended, assuming I go assault terminators.
pretre wrote: You want long range fire power and cheap scoring out of your allies, which is why guard is so good. That being said, try to get those out of SM.
Don´t battle sisters count as cheap scoring units? Not as cheap as IG I guess, but still not space marine expensive either. I could go with a scout squad from space marines to save on points, I just don´t like them all that much, and it would mean having to buy some as well since I haven´t needed them for my BT army. I am just going with space marines since i have a bunch lying around from playing black templars, and don´t want to invest in another army. Truth be told I would want to invest in eldar if I started collecting something new, but I saw someone say earlier that eldar were pretty bad as allies for sisters.
My initial plan was to use my mandatory troop choice for space marines with bolt pistol and chain swords to have some decent melee units, as that is also an area that sisters are pretty bad. I was planning to use them as a human shield against genestealers or the like. If I didn´t have assault terminators then I could use the chaplain (gives bonus to melee) as a squad leader. However, in the space marine codex, unlike the BT codex, I can only have bolt pistol and sword on my squad leader, and marines with bolters is probably the last thing I need as a sister player, since I have enough bolters on the table. This means the best use I could get out of them is to go 10 in stead of 5 man squad, so I can have heavy weapons on them, but this means an increased investment in points.
As for terminators, I was thinking first to go assault terminators, but as you mentioned above sisters need more long range firepower, so maybe regular terminators are better? At that point I might as well just use a (venerable?) dreadnaught as my elite choice.
All in all I do notice that marines are so expensive they are not really worth it. If I wanted to max the allotment I could easily reach 1000-1500 points in marines alone, kinda defeats the purpose of having a small ally force to cover a faction weakness.
A small sister related question though, For the three heavy slots sisters get, is it best to go two exorcists and one retributer squad with heavy bolters and a imagifie? I kinda feel like I want more heavy bolters, but the exorcist is soo good as well.
edit: I ment to say retributer squad, but I said repentia*
Retributers are good to have, I usually have 2 Exorcist and 1 goup of Rets. still need at least 1 Exorcist for the 48" range and s8 ap1 shots. If you have points for more Rets in a unit go for it, a unit of 4 heavy bolters, Banner, and a few more bodies in front of them to take hits instead of your HB. more shots and a more versatile role. Taking Rets is nice since your Exorcists can crap out and shoot one missle. Sisters lack range so those options are needed,
Re: SM allies. That's why I don't favor them for SOB. The things that we need are not very cheap or good from the C:SM list. As well, they aren't Battle Brothers.
pretre wrote: Rets are also very good with a Bastion.
Re: SM allies. That's why I don't favor them for SOB. The things that we need are not very cheap or good from the C:SM list. As well, they aren't Battle Brothers.
In the end I didn't like what the SM codex gave me compared to what I already had, so I went and traded the book for a grey knight codex in stead, as well as a terminator squad, dread knight and a gunship, and I will proxy the rest until i get more money. Space marines are close enough to GK's anyway, just with the wrong weapon combos, so they are a close enough match to proxy. This is based on the last couple of pages discussion around gk being as good/better/slightly inferior to guards as allies. I am thinking I will run a list close to what you posted on the previous page. Althought the gunship I wanted in case I wanted to run GK by itself, and not as an ally.
Jancoran wrote: Newsflash: Sisters of Battle win 10 games in a row, including two tournaments!
I am rolling with them. Even beat a fellow tonight who is the only preson I know that can beat me with consistency. Confidence is high!
I hope you're all having equal success. Shield of aith saved my bacon so many times and Dominion are just champs.
Nice, what kind of list are you running?
I ran with dominions today, but I am not as convinced, although they did take out the necron doomsday cannon in the first round. I was thinking of getting the avenger strike fighter from forgeworld next month, and to get room for it in the list (I assume it's fast attack?) I was thinking dominions would be the easiest thing to drop from the list for points, even with an open fast attack slot. Dominions are better than anything we have in our elite slots though, appart from maybe assassins and crusaders?
Assassins and Crusaders are part of a Battle Conclave which is only unlocked with certain HQ choices as an add on to that HQ choice- Not a stand-alone Elite slot.
OutlawBandit wrote: Assassins and Crusaders are part of a Battle Conclave which is only unlocked with certain HQ choices as an add on to that HQ choice- Not a stand-alone Elite slot.
Only elite choices are Celestians and Repentia.
Ah, my bad, should have checked the codex before posting. I do have a Uriah Jacobus ready for a battle conclave attachment, but I haven't bothered to order the battle conclave themselves yet, I might now that I have grey knights, since both assassins and crusaders are pretty useful in inquisitorial henchmen squads, which goes hand in hand with coteaz the seemingly most popular HQ.
But are they worth the point investment? Repetia does seem better than what I remember from old codex/5th edition, but still not something I would take over anything I can put in a rhino or immolator. The celestians could be useful as a way to get an extra TLMM immolator on the field, but other than that they are just battle sisters who are slightly less worse in melee. Which kinda sucks since I remember them being quite useful in the old codex.
Regarding the avenger I was informed that it does in fact take a heavy slot, not a fast attack as I thought, would the best way to utilize the heavy slots be exorcist/avenger/retributors? Hate having to drop an exorcist, even if they are slightly unreliable. When allied with my grey knights I can always bring a stormraven gunship as an air unit, but it does cost 205 points without upgrades, which is pretty steep if one also brings a deathknight for 260 points as well.
Edit: Saw a post on the first page of the 40k tactics forum regarding celestians, and they pretty much just confirms their uselessness unless maybe taken with a canoness.
Celestians are genuinely awful in the current sham of a codex. Since they're utterly useless in CC even with their faith power, Battle Sisters are infinitely better and cheaper to boot.
If you're using Faith points at all, Jacobius is an auto-include. Having only one Exorcist is the same as having only one Vindicator - it's gonna get focused, die horribly, and leave you SOL, so take 2 always. A squad of HB Retributors in your third Heavy slot may not need its transport, so you can give it to a Repentia unit for a little fun.
You'll still lose against any remotely competitive list, unfortunately, but if you're just playing locally without too many WAAC fools about, they can still be fun.
Jancoran wrote: Newsflash: Sisters of Battle win 10 games in a row, including two tournaments!
I am rolling with them. Even beat a fellow tonight who is the only preson I know that can beat me with consistency. Confidence is high!
I hope you're all having equal success. Shield of aith saved my bacon so many times and Dominion are just champs.
Nice, what kind of list are you running?
I ran with dominions today, but I am not as convinced, although they did take out the necron doomsday cannon in the first round. I was thinking of getting the avenger strike fighter from forgeworld next month, and to get room for it in the list (I assume it's fast attack?) I was thinking dominions would be the easiest thing to drop from the list for points, even with an open fast attack slot. Dominions are better than anything we have in our elite slots though, appart from maybe assassins and crusaders?
Jancoran wrote: The most recent tourney used this list:
The previous tourney used this list and both won their tourneys:
Nice, as I am reading more of sixth and with my bad luck with exorcists I really like this list. Not entirely convinced by repentias yet, but I will have to give them a try and see how they actually do before making a call on them, I guess I will want to have a rhino or something driving in front of them?
The other variable for me would be how many dominion squads to bring and which special weapons to kit them out.
I also really like celestine with seraphim, so I might go with a full squad on them, right now I don´t have enough models for it though.
@Jancoran: I saw your post on your blog, but didn't comment. There is sooo much in that list that I don't agree with and don't see how it works, but it works for you, so whatever.
I wouldn't recommend it to someone else though.
@Acidian: Repentia are very hard to use correctly and get any kills out of.
Doms should be Flamerx2/Combi or Meltax2/Combi if you go Immolator or Flamerx4/Combi or Meltax2/Combi in a Rhino, in my opinion. I've also run Flamer x2/Meltax2/Combi in a Rhino, but think I would focus more on the Flamers.
My personal opinion is that Flamerx2/Combi Flamer in a TL-MM Immo is the best choice right now with the lack of vehicles on a lot of battlefields.
@Acidian: Repentia are very hard to use correctly and get any kills out of.
Doms should be Flamerx2/Combi or Meltax2/Combi if you go Immolator or Flamerx4/Combi or Meltax2/Combi in a Rhino, in my opinion. I've also run Flamer x2/Meltax2/Combi in a Rhino, but think I would focus more on the Flamers.
My personal opinion is that Flamerx2/Combi Flamer in a TL-MM Immo is the best choice right now with the lack of vehicles on a lot of battlefields.
I run a lot of flamers in my regular sister squads, so if I go domi´s I think it might be best to focus on melta, but since the immo has a TL-MM I can see going with flamers in stead. Maybe meltax2/combi-flamer could be good?
As you say though there seem to be less vehicles on the table currenlty. After reading about first blood and how bad rhino hulls are in the current edition, I can understand why this is. So I am tempted to try a footslogging list and increasing unit size to compensate, makes getting first blood harder for the opponent harder. The exoricist still seems safe to bring, since you can have it so far in the back and it has 13 front armor.
I would actually argue the opposite. Your sisters should have Melta/Multimelta. You don't want Sisters close enough to use flamers because then they are dead.
Doms are disposable because they are only scoring in one mission and worth VP in another.
I would highly recommend against foot slogging big squads of sisters. if you are going to foot slog, just use 10 girl squads. The extra sisters really don't get you anything.
Personally, I think that Rhino hulls are fine for sisters, even with First Blood. You just have to suck it up and accept that if you go second you will lose FB.
pretre wrote: I would actually argue the opposite. Your sisters should have Melta/Multimelta. You don't want Sisters close enough to use flamers because then they are dead.
Doms are disposable because they are only scoring in one mission and worth VP in another.
I would highly recommend against foot slogging big squads of sisters. if you are going to foot slog, just use 10 girl squads. The extra sisters really don't get you anything.
Personally, I think that Rhino hulls are fine for sisters, even with First Blood. You just have to suck it up and accept that if you go second you will lose FB.
I do see a lot more sister lists using regular squads with MM/M, which does make sense for range reasons, and with the new rules allowing you to move and shoot heavy weapons, it´s not as bad as it used to be where heavy flamers where the only thing that could. Still, any enemy charging you with a heavy flamer and rapid fire would be pretty beat up, but people go more shooty armies now anyway. I will have to get some more MM sisters now.
Going 20 sisters in a squad would definitely be hard to do, just because of trying to spread them out and avoid blast templats, then moving them would be a pain, I don´t mind losing the rhinos themselves, but I see a lot of people complain in the GK thread about FB being the winning victory point in a lot of missions, since people often have the same amount of objectives. On our pluss side, with celestine it is a lot harder for an enemy to get the warlord point against us?
I usually run a squad of doms with 2 multimeltas and a rhino, immolater if I have the points. I've been debating on dropping them for another retributer squad or more serephims in my 1000pt list. List I built for a local tourney.
HQ St Celestine 115pt
Acidian wrote: Still, any enemy charging you with a heavy flamer and rapid fire would be pretty beat up, but people go more shooty armies now anyway. I will have to get some more MM sisters now.
Heavy flamer only puts 1.5 hits up during Overwatch and costs 10 more points. Yuck. The bolters do most of the work for the squad there.
Going 20 sisters in a squad would definitely be hard to do, just because of trying to spread them out and avoid blast templats, then moving them would be a pain, I don´t mind losing the rhinos themselves, but I see a lot of people complain in the GK thread about FB being the winning victory point in a lot of missions, since people often have the same amount of objectives. On our pluss side, with celestine it is a lot harder for an enemy to get the warlord point against us?
The problem is that Sisters need their vehicles to function and can't afford to foot slog (in my opinion). T3 3+ is too weak to not have vehicles. I still run basically the same sisters list as I did in 5th, except now I use Rets (with Bastion) and Seras (to give Celestine H&R).
Automatically Appended Next Post: @conker249 : Nasty list for 1000 points.
Thanks. So far played 5 games with it for practice before the tourney. Tied 2 and won 3. Doms have always killed their points worth but usually die and give up a kp. They are a game changer so far. With the ability to either scout or outflank. Only problem I feel is should I drop to add more to serephim or add another ret squad. All 3 are good options. Feel like I should have caught this sooner but the FAQ changes all references of power swords to power weapons. So I can add a power axe for more strength since they are mostly striking last at int 3.
pretre wrote: @Jancoran: I saw your post on your blog, but didn't comment. There is sooo much in that list that I don't agree with and don't see how it works, but it works for you, so whatever.
I wouldn't recommend it to someone else though.
@Acidian: Repentia are very hard to use correctly and get any kills out of.
.
It's America! But Pretre, saying that it doesn't work after it just DID work twice is sort of like saying "don't trust in a round moon. It's definitely square. Lol.
Perhaps it would be more informing if one asked HOW it worked (past tense) instead of suggesting that it doesn't (present tense).
For those interested (and not for those not interested), here is the experience the enemy was having in some of our games:
Imagine in round 1, that two Rhinos have just arrived at yourdeployment line, killed your land Raider (TL Melta Dominion) and your Grey Hunter squad that was holding the Quadgun (with Twin linked flamers +TL bolters, it's quite likely to go well for the Nuns). There are two Rhinos blocking off two squads sitting right there. Meanwhile 12 other units are coming up behind them to Midboard. Sisters Repentia in one of those Rhinos, yes, but there are also Rending Heavy Flamers coming, dozens and doezens of bolters firing with preferred enemy and so on. The Exorcists jointly drop the artillery battery or perhaps pop a rhino because hey, what else are they good for? And St. Celestine appears to have taken an interest and is ready to charge in round 2 with a touch of luck. She has 2+ armor and isn't afraid to die. Ever.
So I postulate to you that you might be very disinclined to paying a TON of heed to those Repentia Sisters until the OTHER problems are resolved. That might take some doing because they are 10 sister Dominion per squad, not 5. And unfortunately you have to kill the two rhinos they are using to stop approaching infantry unles infantry want to do a disorganized charge... more good news for us because we at least have a chance to fight on while clogging you up for the cavalry to arrive.
So just in round 1, you can see what a big problem there is to solve before you think about those Repentias. In round 2 the Repentias get out (if there were no drop pods to worry about in round 1) and every bolter in the Imperium is unloading plus here come the Twin-linked Seraphim (in the 2K list) forming another layer of fencing to keep the enemy in front of the fusilde and St Celestine is stiiiil coming....
While you SEE a lot of flamers in the list, consider the grenades on all those sisters! If you dont kill all those Dominions and their Rhinos in that first round, the missiles will fire from the rhinos, and the remaining Dominion will surge and kill tanks with their dying breaths. So it will take a LOT of concentrated fire to avoid those Krak grenades. 10 Dominion can take a lot more punishment than they should. The Shield of Faith is invaluably useful in keeeping one and maybe even TWO more units firing at them than would normally have to be the case before they die.
This is kind of the feeling of the games. Obviously lots of other things were going on, but thats kind of the feel of it. A raging mass of waves crashing ebbing and flowing against the Aegis breakwater. Of brave brave Sisters. We mourn thine sublim sacrifice that the Emperor may taste victory.
Will you win without Sisters Repentia? Yup.. Thee are many ways to skin a cat. So play with them or dont but there's me, sharing my experience with you. If I was more into video battle reports, I'd do one to show you how. It just seems like a lot of work though.
Jancoran wrote: It's America! But Pretre, saying that it doesn't work after it just DID work twice is sort of like saying "don't trust in a round moon. It's definitely square. Lol.
Perhaps it would be more informing if one asked HOW it worked (past tense) instead of suggesting that it doesn't (present tense).
Reread what I wrote, you even quoted it. I didn't say it didn't work. I said
pretre wrote:There is sooo much in that list that I don't agree with and don't see how it works, but it works for you, so whatever.
Jancoran wrote: The most recent tourney used this list:
The previous tourney used this list and both won their tourneys:
Nice, as I am reading more of sixth and with my bad luck with exorcists I really like this list. Not entirely convinced by repentias yet, but I will have to give them a try and see how they actually do before making a call on them, I guess I will want to have a rhino or something driving in front of them?
The other variable for me would be how many dominion squads to bring and which special weapons to kit them out.
I also really like celestine with seraphim, so I might go with a full squad on them, right now I don´t have enough models for it though.
They steal a Rhino, Acidian, but only if they need to. Often their movement is enough to get them where they need to go anyways. Best to take cover when one can though. =) In THIS listi fyou dont take Repentias, it will kind of force you to take something melee oriented like the Battle Conclave. So if you like the Conclave (and its pretty good) then do that instead. I like the Repentia for their special Act of Faith and when I add Jacobus, they are really really a sure bet even in small remaining numbers. But you can go either way and end pretty happy. They bring different things to the table but Armourbane makes them the fultifaceted insurance policy I prefer.
Jancoran wrote: It's America! But Pretre, saying that it doesn't work after it just DID work twice is sort of like saying "don't trust in a round moon. It's definitely square. Lol.
Perhaps it would be more informing if one asked HOW it worked (past tense) instead of suggesting that it doesn't (present tense).
Reread what I wrote, you even quoted it. I didn't say it didn't work....
You said it you wouldn't recommend it for others. I refute that. I am not so special to the Gawds that things work only for me. lol.
So why is everyone taking MM's in their battle sister squads? Aren't those always supposed to keep moving, meaning you'd rarely get a hit in with them?
I'm used to fishing for 6's with moving heavy weapons (I play IG and orks afterall) but both those armies can take enough weapons to ensure the hits.
I feel like I'm missing something about why you would stick the multimeltas in.
Most of the time, my BSS are static. If playing straight sisters I take one with melta/hf for objective taking. Otherwise they are all mm / melta for objective holding. BSS aren't good at surviving midfield.
thoughts on aegis defence line vs a bastion.
Thinking for the minor point difference it could be a very good option to stuff a small retribution squad with heavy bolters in a bastion but I think i could hide more stuff behind the line.
Ideas?
MrMoustaffa wrote: So why is everyone taking MM's in their battle sister squads? Aren't those always supposed to keep moving, meaning you'd rarely get a hit in with them?
I'm used to fishing for 6's with moving heavy weapons (I play IG and orks afterall) but both those armies can take enough weapons to ensure the hits.
I feel like I'm missing something about why you would stick the multimeltas in.
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:I used to run 2 x MG, but with convincing from this very thread, my own experiences, and the change to 6th, MM are a more attractive option for the following reasons:
Increased threat radius for the squad
Can choose to not move the MM model if on foot while still moving most of the squad while maintaining coherency and still fire at normal BS Can move the MM or if in vehicle can still fire albeit at BS1
AoF can help mitigate the reduced BS if Snap Firing
More I'm sure, that is just the quick and dirty.
Also why.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
canadianguy wrote:thoughts on aegis defence line vs a bastion.
Thinking for the minor point difference it could be a very good option to stuff a small retribution squad with heavy bolters in a bastion but I think i could hide more stuff behind the line.
Ideas?
pretre wrote:If you have rets, bastion is better.
Both have their own merits and I think it would depend more on what kind of list(s) are being used. The ADL can provide cover to more units, especially those on foot. The Bastion provides a good "base" and LOS blocking. As noted, the ADL is slightly cheaper and sometimes you won't have the few more points it would take to get a Bastion. The ADL can provide cover for vehicles. But as pretre said, Bastions are very good for Heavy Bolter Rets.
A post from my buddy MikhailLenin about his Sisters/GK that have swept the nation.
MikhailLenin wrote:This article below will cover why you should play Sisters of Battle, what you should expect and what are their strength and weakness. I guess I should introduce myself, people know me locally in the Pacific Northwest as MikhailLenin or the French Overlord and I have been playing Warhammer 40,000 for about 18 years ever since I was 9 years old but I have only truly begun my path to being a true competitive contender in the last 5-6 years. Over the half of the last decade I have played 7 different Competitive Armies to various Regional Tournaments (OFCC, TSHFT, Guardian Cup, etc…) but it wasn’t until 6th Edition landed that the stars were aligned for me to participate in one of the biggest Competitive Event in the USA for 40k, NOVA OPEN.
6th Edition was brand new and the field wasn’t quite settled on what was reliable and working. At the time I was still building up my Sister of Battles towards a 5th Edition set-up with mechanized DCA and Sister Units. Upon reading the changes to vehicles in 6th edition, I knew instantly that mechanized DCA that weren’t in an Assault Vehicle were just not as effective especially with the Power Weapon changes; the addition of First Blood meant that lines of Low AV tanks were too risky to give it up. The Army quickly morphed into a much more Infantry based army with 1 or 2 elements of mechanization, preferably only 1 which I had to deploy since it was much easier to hide 1 Rhino than several and the other sitting in reserve. The reason for at least 1 mech unit was for access to at least 1 searchlight that didn’t depend on my Exorcists firing in the dark first, to be able to reach out the relic first turn and to set up position on farther objectives and or gaining Line Breaker.
6th Edition list building became more of composing a symphony than a rap song that was 5th edition where you could “sample” (cut & paste) redundancy of units you knew were reliably effective such as a lot of cheap scoring mechanized units. I entered this phase with my Sisters unlike any of my previous armies where they would focus on a few aspect of the Meta and do them extremely well, this Sister’s list became about bringing a lot of precision tools and focusing on maximizing on the new winning conditions. The entrance of the Ally mechanic fit that philosophy perfectly as it allowed me to take even more tools that I might not have access to or even better altogether than the ones I have access to. This gave birth to the first iteration of my Sisters of Battle with Grey Knight Allies:
Heavy Support:
Retributors – 5x – 4 Heavy Bolters
Exorcist – Searchlight
Exorcist – Searchlight
Dreadknight – Nemesis Greatsword, Nemesis Doomfist, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter
Fortification:
Bastion – Icarus Lascannon
Total – 2,000 Pts
You will probably notice the list is nothing special and in fact my first reaction after pulling out the models for the first time that this list looks like a hodgepodge of a lot of units but each choice was picked for a specific reason and let delve into these decisions:
• Why Sisters of Battle? 6th Edition has made Foot Infantry a lot lucrative than just sticking them into a Vehicle platform and the benefit of Sisters of Battle units is that they are essentially Marines with WS3, T3, I3 and no ATSKNF but retain a 3+ save, gain a 6++ save, are cheaper than a Marine with essentially the same shooting wargear but are in fact better at shooting due to the multiplicative effect of their Acts of Faith. (Think of Acts of Faith like an Order that passes on a specific dice roll)
• Why Grey Knight Allies? Essentially for the Unit Access the GK codex allows that I will discuss below.
• Saint Celestine? 6th Edition has made this HQ even more ridiculous than 5th edition. For a whopping 115 Points, you gain a Fearless, 2+/4++, Jump Infantry Independent Character that has a monster Statline (WS7,I7,A5), a Power Sword that will wound at the worse on a 4+ and fires as a Heavy Flamer. But what you really pay for her is what the special rules she has called Miraculous Intervention where after she dies, on your next turn, she will stand back up from the spot she died on a roll of 4+ with D3 wounds and acts normally if the roll is failed you get to try again later turns or until the game ends. To receive First Blood or Slay the Warlord you would need her to be “Napping” at the end of the game from her. Going Second with Saint Celestine can be a major headache for your opponents as she can easily get back up on the last turn, zoom to get Line Breaker or contest an objective or worse score an objective with the Warlord Trait. She usually rides with the Seraphim as she grants them Fearless, +1 on the Faith Check Roll and they grant her Hit&Run (At her Iniative of 7).
• Coteaz? 6th edition introduced new Psychic Powers specifically Divination which Coteaz has access to with 2 rolls on the table and is Mastery Level 2. This makes the already cheap great HQ even better from the perspective of how I set him up. Essentially I am looking for 2 Powers, Prescience and Perfect Timing (Misfortune being a close third). Prescience giving me the ability to re-roll to hit with Shooting or Close Combat and Perfect Timing granting him and his unit Ignore Cover. He exponentially makes that Henchmen Warband unit a great shooting platform while having the best vantage point of the army, the top of the Bastion. Coteaz manning the Icarus Lascannon would make the total Lascannon shots come to 4, and in addition Perfect Timing that unit is essentially death to Vehicle and Flyers even. Coteaz also allows me to negate some of the effects of Seize the Iniative with his special rule “Spy Network” and also provides great defensive bubble from Drop Pod Armies or Daemons with his special rule “I’ve been expecting you.”
• The Sisters of Battle Squads? These units are the only option for troops available from the SoB mini-Dex and while not really price optimize they are still cheaper than Marines and have similar firepower until you take into account their Faith Power. Their Act of Faith, “Light of the Emperor”, can be used once in three different phase of your turn; the first being the Movement Phase which allows the unit to automatically rally ignoring any restrictions; the second and third in the Shooting Phase and Close Combat Phase allowing them to Re-Roll any rolls of 1 to hit. This essentially makes them a bit more effective than Marines in Shooting and now that they can shoot at 24” while moving makes them decent but by no account amazing. (You can also take unit size up to 20)
• The Henchmen Warband? This unit is set-up as a great firebase for the top of the Bastion and the extra additional benefit from rolling on the Jokaero Table is a nice addition such as Rending, or the 5+ invulnerable. They can also disembark from the Bastion from the top floor through the Bastion door in 1 turn and thus making them great if I need to claim an objective near by.
• The Seraphim Squad? This unit is actually one of my favorite for many reasons. They have 2 Bolt Pistols or 2 Hand Flamers (on 2 Models) and an Eviscerator. They are babysat by the Saint and thus gain Fearless but they also have Hit & Run which now runs off the highest Initiative of the unit. Their act of Faith is called “The Emperor’s Deliverance” and it allows them to re-roll to wound from shooting essentially making Celestine’s Heavy Flamer and all those Hand Flamers quite effective. They are one of the unit that is quite reliable at getting their act of Faith off as they benefit from this rule called “Angelic Visage” allowing them to re-roll the check to see if they pass their Act of Faith. (It also allows them to re-roll their 6++ save). They make a remarkably great unit to tag along with the Saint, especially with all those Walls of Death rolls when they get charges.
• The Dominion Squad? This unit has a lot of options for gameplay as it benefits from Scout (and thus Outflank) and I decided to gear mine for anti-infantry for their flamers benefit the most out of their Act of Faith called “Holy Fusillade” as it makes their weapons Twin-Linked and thus Re-Roll to wound for their Flamers. The best setup I have seen them used is a 5 Dominion strong unit with 2 Flamers and a Combi-Melta in an Immolator with a Twin-Linked Multi-Melta but my reasons against it was because of the Scouring which essentially makes that unit more of a liability than a good one as both the unit and the vehicle are worth a Victory Point each.
• The Retributor Squad? This unit is perfect for deploying inside the Bastion as the 4 Heavy Bolter Sisters can man the 4 fire points on the mid-section and the sergeant on one of the emplaced Heavy Bolter (which now has Precision Strike). Their Act of Faith is called “Divine Guidance” and grants them Rending for the shooting phase (even the emplaced Heavy Bolters being operated by Retributors.)
• The Exorcists? Aside from their amazing weapon (48” Str 8 AP 1 D6 Shots), they have a predator chassis (13/12/10) and benefit from a 6++ save making them quite a deal for 135 points.
• The Dreadknight? This is one expensive guy and thus far he has not disappointed and while I would never consider running him in any of Grey Knight list, he was perfect for my Sister army. He function as a great support unit for the Seraphims or is great at putting pressure on my opponent on turn 1 letting the rest of the army who is walking get into better position.
• The Bastion? It probably become self-apparent in the previous unit choice why I chose a Bastion but why a Bastion over an Aegis Defense Line. Really it comes down to the fact that the Bastion provide the units inside a much better vantage point for shooting to maximize on things like Focus Fire and it is much harder for my opponent to use the Bastion in his favor than the Aegis Defense Line.
Well you are probably tired at this point of reading about the army and hear perhaps some tales about it performed at NOVA OPEN. First, I would like to point out that I made it all the way to the Semi-Finals and played Tony Kopach for my last game. The reason you never saw me under the streaming video was because at the time my army was not fully painted, it was in fact about 70% painted and the two reasons I took it to NOVA was because it felt like my most competitive army for 6th Edition (at least it was the more reliable ones in all the play testing) and there was nothing in the pamphlet that mentioned anything about being painted. Mike Brandt told me the night before the Semi-Finals that he couldn’t let a non-fully painted army win NOVA and thus either I could let the person ranked under me advance or play the Semi-Final game knowing that no matter the result, my opponent would advance. Being a TO myself, I understood Mike’s decision very well and he apologized because he was fully aware that they didn’t set this criteria first hand. I told him that I flew across the country to play new and the best players NOVA could offer and I would prefer to play the game. I was just excited to know that I made it this far. It was a dream come true for me when I found out I was playing Tony Kopach that morning, a chance to test myself against him, the NOVA Laureate. I ended losing that game by a very small margin (Time mostly) and I think Tony learned a lot that day in regards to Sisters. Here is a breakdown of what I played at NOVA and some quick commentary:
1. Draigowing – Paladins do not like Exorcists or the amount of sheer range anti-infantry the army put out. This was a very 1 sided game in my favor. Unfortunately my opponent already surrendered to the hopeless after the third turn and I could feel continuing the game was annoying him but I tried my best to be a gentleman about it.
2. Mech Grey Knight with IG Allies – The Dreadknight shunted into a Ruin in my opponent table half and I had the Stealth for my entire Army Warlord Trait. It took his army 2 turns of consecutive firing into him to kill it while losing a lot of vehicles to the rest of the army. Vendettas were shot out of the Air by Coteaz. My opponent was a great sportman and we had a very enjoyable game.
3. Drop Pod Vanilla Marines with IG Allies – Coteaz’s “I’ve Been expecting you” prevented his Pods from landing in good positions in my table half and thus were now losing a Shooting war with my army. Also Celestine got back up 4 times and was able to flame out most of his De-Mech IG. Vendetta again shot out of the Air by Coteaz. We had a stellar time playing and he was a true gentleman in regards to how annoying Celestine can be.
4. Drop Pod Vanilla Marine with Drop Pod Blood Angels (40 Sternguard) – The initial Landing was not terrible as Coteaz’s shooting was not very effective when they landed but the Dreadknight + Seraphim + Celetine quickly cleaned the LZ leaving me most of the rest of the game hunting down his remaining troops. Very fun opponent and was a nailbiter.
5. Necron with Ork Allies – This was another example of the Dreadknight being unstoppable due to lack of AP2 or 1 weapons in shooting combined with a lot of range anti-infantry. Coteaz was not very successful at shooting flyers that game and it was a great close game.
6. Blood Angels with Space Wolf Allies – This game was actually extremely close mostly due to a mistake I made with my deployment and some bad luck on my part during turn 1 which me and my opponent trade after turn 3.
7. Space Wolf with IG Allies – Tony Kopach finally. I made 1 huge error in my first turn which echoed throughout the game and that was shunting my Dreadknight to snipe off his Platoon Command Squad to prevent them gaining “first and second rank fire”. Sacrificing him to the sheer amount of Plasmaguns near him. Other than that my first turn saw me take out roughly 30 Guardsmen out of his blob from the Dominion Scouting forward and flaming his Blob as well as the Retributors focus firing on the left over the unit out of cover. Had we enough time to start our turn 6, I believe I could have pulled a win over him but it would have been meaningless from the purpose of advancing. I had a lot of fun playing Tony and I was happy of how far I got.
I enjoyed all my games at NOVA and had a blast but like every event I attend I leave with notions of what I needed to change and some recommendation for the Organizer. I have since adjusted my List to reflect the changes I feel needed to be done after my experience at NOVA and next year I intend to be back and fully painted! And hopefully next year I will get to play Tony again and all my previous opponents. My personal highlights that weekend was having a few gentlemen tell me that I re-spark their interest in playing Sisters of Battle again and hearing my opponents coming to support me in later games.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and I would like to thank the Pacific Northwest Gaming Groups: Ordo Fanaticus, Guardian 40k Players, Team BIO, TSHFT, Drunken Mamma’s Boyz and the Bellingham Warhamsters.
I leave you with my current list which recently took TSHFT Champion and what I am planning on take to BAO (Minus 250 points).
HQ:
Saint Celestine - Warlord
Coteaz
Elites:
Vindicare Assasin
Troops:
Sisters of Battle Squad – 10x – Meltagun, Multi-Melta, Combi-Plasma
Sisters of Battle Squad – 10x – Meltagun, Multi-Melta, Combi-Plasma
Henchman Warband – 3x Servitors with 2 Heavy Bolters, 1 Plasma Cannon and 2x Jokaero
Grey Knight Strike Squad – 10x – 2 Psycannons, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Psybolt Ammo
- Rhino – Searchlight
Fast Attack:
Seraphim Squad – 10x – 4 Hand Flamers, Meltabomb
Heavy Support:
Retributors – 5x – 4 Heavy Bolters
Exorcist – Searchlight
Exorcist – Searchlight
Dreadknight – Nemesis Greatsword, Nemesis Doomfist, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter
A post from my buddy MikhailLenin about his Sisters/GK that have swept the nation.
MikhailLenin wrote:Coteaz? 6th edition introduced new Psychic Powers specifically Divination which Coteaz has access to with 2 rolls on the table and is Mastery Level 2. This makes the already cheap great HQ even better from the perspective of how I set him up. Essentially I am looking for 2 Powers, Prescience and Perfect Timing (Misfortune being a close third). Prescience giving me the ability to re-roll to hit with Shooting or Close Combat and Perfect Timing granting him and his unit Ignore Cover. He exponentially makes that Henchmen Warband unit a great shooting platform while having the best vantage point of the army, the top of the Bastion. Coteaz manning the Icarus Lascannon would make the total Lascannon shots come to 4, and in addition Perfect Timing that unit is essentially death to Vehicle and Flyers even. Coteaz also allows me to negate some of the effects of Seize the Iniative with his special rule “Spy Network” and also provides great defensive bubble from Drop Pod Armies or Daemons with his special rule “I’ve been expecting you.”
How do you get 4 Lascannon shots just from Coteaz? I'm confused.
Edit: The Jakaero have 1 each, so that makes it 3....still don't see the 4th.
A post from my buddy MikhailLenin about his Sisters/GK that have swept the nation.
Wow this was very informative and well done, and bonus for me that he allies grey knights. I will definitely try this list whenever I get a 1500-2000 point game in. Feel slightly more justified in spending money I didn't have for the GK's. :3 I was planning on using a strike unit, but I see now how effective a henchmen unit can be.
The problems that I've had with the bastion is that it's basically a stationary landraider. Like any high AV vehicle it's susceptible to getting torn apart by Necrons. Scarabs chew through it pretty well. Also, basic warriors can shoot it and although they can't blow it up, their glaces result in D6 S6 hits on the people inside per glance. They're also susceptible to deep striking melta guns. But, I guess that's the brilliance of taking Coteaz, he gets rid of deep strikers who want to get close to melta it. The other bad experience I had it with it was catching a rail gun shot that penned and exploded it turn 1. But that's more just bad luck.
bogalubov wrote: The problems that I've had with the bastion is that it's basically a stationary landraider. Like any high AV vehicle it's susceptible to getting torn apart by Necrons.
No hull points mean that it can't be torn apart as easily as a land raider.
Scarabs chew through it pretty well.
If scarabs get to your bastion, you probably have bigger problems.
Also, basic warriors can shoot it and although they can't blow it up, their glaces result in D6 S6 hits on the people inside per glance.
This is incorrect. "If a glancing hit is scored, one model
inside the building suffers a Wound with the Ignores
Cover special rule."
So, 1 S4 AP5 hit to the girls inside (with their 3+ armor save) per glance. Not terrible.
They're also susceptible to deep striking melta guns. But, I guess that's the brilliance of taking Coteaz, he gets rid of deep strikers who want to get close to melta it. The other bad experience I had it with it was catching a rail gun shot that penned and exploded it turn 1. But that's more just bad luck.
In my experience, and I think ML's, people maybe shoot at it once or twice and then give up. Mine only went boom in one game and that was from a freak weirdboy shot. Sure, it is vulnerable, but much more durable than people expect.
In my experience, and I think ML's, people maybe shoot at it once or twice and then give up. Mine only went boom in one game and that was from a freak weirdboy shot. Sure, it is vulnerable, but much more durable than people expect.
The key is to have priority targets at the start of turn 2. With a Dreadknight, Strike Squad and Seraphim being mid field on turn 2, there is already too much pressure for most players to waste time shooting at the Bastion. Most often than not it gets targetted turn 1 and again much later in the game if things have gone badly for you.
bogalubov wrote: The problems that I've had with the bastion is that it's basically a stationary landraider. Like any high AV vehicle it's susceptible to getting torn apart by Necrons.
No hull points mean that it can't be torn apart as easily as a land raider.
Scarabs chew through it pretty well.
If scarabs get to your bastion, you probably have bigger problems.
Also, basic warriors can shoot it and although they can't blow it up, their glaces result in D6 S6 hits on the people inside per glance.
This is incorrect. "If a glancing hit is scored, one model
inside the building suffers a Wound with the Ignores
Cover special rule."
So, 1 S4 AP5 hit to the girls inside (with their 3+ armor save) per glance. Not terrible.
They're also susceptible to deep striking melta guns. But, I guess that's the brilliance of taking Coteaz, he gets rid of deep strikers who want to get close to melta it. The other bad experience I had it with it was catching a rail gun shot that penned and exploded it turn 1. But that's more just bad luck.
In my experience, and I think ML's, people maybe shoot at it once or twice and then give up. Mine only went boom in one game and that was from a freak weirdboy shot. Sure, it is vulnerable, but much more durable than people expect.
That's what I get for trying to go off memory. I just remembered losing my whole CCS from first turn glances to Necrons and probably blew it out of proportion.
It's the concept the same as MSU (though at the opposite end of the spectrum?).
You have a high number of targets / high priority threats all bearing down on you, you've saturated the field of fire with things that need to be put down, and so your opponent is often at a loss as to what to target first, and for most effect.
Yep, sisters are really good with target priority saturation. ML makes it even worse with the GKs. It is one of the reasons why I don't fret over my fragile scoring units. People are generally too busy worrying about all the killy things to take pot shots at the poor 10 girl squads scoring my objectives.
MrMoustaffa wrote: So why is everyone taking MM's in their battle sister squads? Aren't those always supposed to keep moving, meaning you'd rarely get a hit in with them?
I'm used to fishing for 6's with moving heavy weapons (I play IG and orks afterall) but both those armies can take enough weapons to ensure the hits.
I feel like I'm missing something about why you would stick the multimeltas in.
If they are in rhinos, you use them as pillbox's. Makes the Rhino scarier for sure, but because of its range...so what? Lol. Getting popped means you're snap firing anyways. if you have them in the open and not in a pillbox, then they are just there to stand and shoot. Personally I feel that really limits the units threat profile a lot. Best to pillbox if you're dead set on doing this.
To be fair, It's very useful for stopping dreads from daring too close when they drop or when Blood Angels get feisty and want to come and impose themselves on your Sisterly virtue. The added "Juice" range of the Multimeltas should scare any Dread into reconsidering its options before throwing its life away against a unit like that. It gives the unit THREE bigger weapons instead of just two.
Honestly this is the 5th Edition template though. People in 5E would bone up on as many melta/plasma as they could on as few models as they could and do it as redundantly as they could. That was the formula for some peoples success. Volume of fire was abandoned by most people so long ago its not even funny. I haven't seen a true volume of fire force until very very recently at a tourney but before that it's frequency was right up there with the dinosaur.
I would posit to you that volume offire is perhaps better because it implies genereally that you have more models and are less prone to losing the unit and its eficacy overall. I think Overkill is how I describe the mad scramble for melta/Plasma weapons that you STILL see people doing in 6E. I can tell you that my units can take the hit a lot better than those min/max'd ones can in the grand scheme because my losses count for less!
Anyways, all theoryhammer aside, there is a pro side to using Multimeltas on the defensive. I just feel like Sisters of Battle are heavily weighted to the offensive side and making lists that sort of try to be defensive seems a recipe for mediocre results. Sometimes the enemy is just BUILT to walk into that and has no choice. So you win. But if they aren't build like that, could be a rough day at the office.
I had fun taking that list and tinkering with it, since my Sisters are in the mail currently. My local meta uses lots of 1850 games so I am attempting to squeeze this list down to my level. Though I am tempted to gut the strike force for more jokers .
Got a question, If I join Celestine to a group of Serephim, and they have the rule angelic visage to where they can re-roll their failed shield of faith rolls. Since Celestine has the Shield of faith rule, and her invuln is 4+ , can she re-roll failed invuln? Or since its her armor that gives her a better invuln, it is no longer a shield of faith? I have not used it since i wasnt for sure about that.
Doms go in side w the silo, Cannoness goes inside on the ICRAS las cannon. Kyrinov and HBBSS goes in walkway hard point area. Bunker battlement get 2 HB a peice and the rets go on either side with Coteaz and the Monkeys go on the battlement over the walkways.
Tech marine DCA in Redeemer BSS rhino hiding behind the Landraider.
Was playing tau and all Im going to say is that by the end of the shooting phase on turn 1 My opponent said he didn't even know why he was continuing the game. 12 Rending HBltrs going in to a fire warrior squad makes then disappear. Dom with a TL missile Silo were able to drop 2 Vehicles in the first turn and 6 more guys in the ensuing explosions. By the top of 2 I was across the table with the land raider the the DCA were assaulting. Turns are quick and If I goes first the game wont last long LOL
I have a league that is allowing the FOR and a RTT coming up that is going to allow it also LOL...
Doms go in side w the silo, Cannoness goes inside on the ICRAS las cannon. Kyrinov and HBBSS goes in walkway hard point area. Bunker battlement get 2 HB a peice and the rets go on either side with Coteaz and the Monkeys go on the battlement over the walkways.
Tech marine DCA in Redeemer BSS rhino hiding behind the Landraider.
Was playing tau and all Im going to say is that by the end of the shooting phase on turn 1 My opponent said he didn't even know why he was continuing the game. 12 Rending HBltrs going in to a fire warrior squad makes then disappear. Dom with a TL missile Silo were able to drop 2 Vehicles in the first turn and 6 more guys in the ensuing explosions. By the top of 2 I was across the table with the land raider the the DCA were assaulting. Turns are quick and If I goes first the game wont last long LOL
I have a league that is allowing the FOR and a RTT coming up that is going to allow it also LOL...
Bringingthe pain. Nicely done. Take home the gold for the good of Sisters everywhere. Planet by bloody planet, we will free the deceived of their shackles.
I wonder, I mostly use Vet squads now because of so much hardware into a squad giving me this build. But I decided to try this build out using my grass roots Platoon Guard.
HQ: Celestine Uriah (For retributor boost mostly, may drop not sure) CCS - 2 FT, LC (Pushes with Sister Rhinos)
Troops: 3x 10 man Sister Squad - Melta, MM, SB(Superior) 3x Rhinos PCS - 4 FT (Guards Uriah and Rets for anti assault) Guard Squad 1 - 1 FT, LC (Pushes with CSS behind Sisters) Guard Squad 2 - 1 FT, LC (Home capture point defense)
Fast Attack: 7 man Seraphim - 2 HF, Eviscerator Vendetta
Heavy: 2x Exorcists 5 Man Retributor Squad - 4 HB
Fortification: Aegis - Quadgun
I do enjoy all of the toys at my disposal with this list but I wonder how usefull that platoon is vs the Sisters squad with MM, and melta in a rhino I lost was. Alright so Uriah allows for rerolls on faith points, FNP, and a strong shotgun. But is he worth 90 points, that is the question....I believe testing at this point is required. So this gives me a 4+ for a succesful act of faith for my Seraphim and Retributors.
If you're going to stick Uriah with the Rets, I would recommend swapping him for Kyrinov. Gives them a "free" Similacrum, and a fearless bubble for your guard that are close. Uriah's faith point reroll is awesome when you are running Seraphim, Rets, and Doms (many units all needing their act of faith) - but with only 1 unit of Rets and 1 unit of Seras... you are probably rarely going to need Uriah's reroll.
On the note of Kryinov, if you stick him in a Bastion with some Rets... the 6 inch fearless bubble extends from the hull of the Bastion, correct? Just as if it was a vehicle? My rulebook is roughly 1400 miles away :(
Just finished a local tournament and had a blast with my sisters of battle. 10 players at 1000pt level. 4x4 boards to play on with little terrain or cover. 4 games with preset missions being the scouring, emperors will, crusade, and purge the alien. Sisters did great and felt I did them justice by using them instead of CSM. I ran
Celestine
6 serephim, 2 sets hand flamers, superior 2x bolt pistol
2 exorcist
Retributer squad w/4 heavy bolter, banner, superior
First match was against imperial guard, mission was the scouring. I tried to kill as much as I could but was overwhelmed by forgeworld heavy guns. 3 gun emplacements, basilisks, manticore, all on a skyfire platform. I was just trying to survive the amount of fire. Managed my 6 victory points to his 10. Next match was against dark eldar. He had an archon with 5 incubi in a venom, 10 wyches in a raider, 10 warriors in a raider with disintegrater cannon, and 10 footslogging warriors with dark lance, and one ravenger, Mission was emperors will, used All my exorcist launchers and retributer rending to take out all his transports except one raider,and make him march on foot. His raider with wyches came fast and haywire grenaded one of my exorcist. Serephim with Celestine deepstruck and flamed all his wyches killing them. Next turn he Assaulted Celestine's group with an archon and 5 incubi. I overwatched with 5 flamers killing 2 incubi. Killed 2 more in close combat and wounding his archon And destroying his shadow field. Used hit and run with Celestine's initiative getting out of combat at the end of his turn. At the beginning of my turn I flamed them all and assaulted him. Killing his hq and his final raider with my surviving exorcist. Tabling my opponent with my 6 victory points to his 1. Next match was necrons with crusade mission. I got first turn and managed to kill one barge outright with exorcist firepower. His hq was in another barge coming up the field and took 3 excorsist shots. His turn he assaulted my sister squad and failed to make the gap, taking a wound in the process. My turn I lit up a warrior group with my retributers. Deepstruck Celestine with serephim and flamed another warrior group to death. I rapid fired my sister squad into the hq and killed him. He didn't make his reanimation. Tabling him. Next match was against space wolves, purge the alien. He had 1 group of longfangs, thunderwolf lord as hq, 3 groups of troops each with one grey hunter terminator in drop pods. I killed his long fangs with both exorcist firing at him. He drop pods In 2 groups next to each exorcist and tried to melta both. I made my shield of faith and lived. I then finish his long fang off with one exorcist. Celestine deepstruck in and with the serephim killed one on the groups of space wolves. His lord assaulted my retributers and killed them. I finished off every unit but his hq and drop pods. Then he killed off 2 BBS and killed Celestine and the serephim, I forgot to use hit and run so they got wiped out. At that point it was only Celestine vs his hq and thunder hammer. He killed Celestine 2x in the next turns. At the end of turn 5 he game didn't continue and so Celestine couldn't get up. He won 8 victory points to my 7. Very close and bloody match. I ended up with 3rd place in the local tournament. Learned a lot being my first tournament. Also taught many people to fear sisters of battle. All in all very fun and can't wait to play again.
It was fun having people call sisters overpowered and broken. I used hit and run a lot with Celestine's initiative. Exorcist with their ap1, and deep strike/flame everything with 5 well setup templates. There were 2x necron, 2 space wolf, 1 ork, 1 grey knight, myself with sisters, imperial guard, tau, and dark eldar. Tau ended up winning first prize, followed by imperial guard, then myself. Really caught the tournament fever, going for a few in St. Louis and Tennessee mid 2013.
Excellent. Allow the Sisters to illuminate the way for the lesser forces to follow in your wake. The uninitiated called us weak, but it is written: The meek shall inherit Terra. Yay verily though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Tzeetch, I shall fear no evil
I have been having some issues vs. armor in the last couple of games I have had, mostly with my celestine + seraphim squad. It's a pretty resilient and awesome squad to use in a variety of situations, especially if I can get the scoring unit special trait with celestine. However, when I play against space marines with dreadnoughts or predators, str 3 just isn't enough to do anything, so the enemy is free to harass me as much as they want. This issue is confounded if my exorcist is taken out, but due to target saturation it might be busy trying to kill something else. I also had the issue two games ago where a techmarine with a 2+ armor save destroyed my whole seraphim unit and celestine single handedly. Celestine could really benefit from having a power weapon with ap 2 or more str or something, but she is pretty badass as she is so I guess it would be too much.
So I was wondering if it could be a good idea to put an eviscerator + plasma pistol on my seraphim superior? I haven't used meltabombs yet, so no matter what I will be adding one to the superior, but it only gives me one shot to destroy a vehicle. Is it also true now that I can exchange the power sword, which I can buy for the superior, with anything else in the 6th edition rulebook, as long as it is represented on the model? Then I could get a power axe in stead, which saves me points compared to an eviscerator, and will allow me to pen a 2+ armor save or an armor 10 vehicle. Since I can't flame through my own squad anymore, I am always having issues placing one of my flamer pistol sisters as well, and could inferno pistols be a better solution?
That said, I still don't have a bastion or ADL since my local store is still sold out on those, so that would help a lot I bet. And at higher point games where I am planning to bring some gray knights then I will have a dread knight or dreadnought that I can bring. I will also add to the sentiment that bringing heavy flamers compared to multimelta is a bad idea, so far I have been running one of each and when my bss is just camping an objective the multimelta is way more useful than flamers, I pretty much never get to use it.
Celestine and seraphim have krak already. Give te superior a mb. They also have hit and run so I'm not sure how one tech marine killed the squad. Especially since Celestine could challenge him. He has one s8 ap2 attack.
pretre wrote: Celestine and seraphim have krak already. Give te superior a mb. They also have hit and run so I'm not sure how one tech marine killed the squad. Especially since Celestine could challenge him. He has one s8 ap2 attack.
He was with a giant gun howitzer thing that was annihilating the rest of my army, he said I couldn't challenge him because he was technically gun crew and not an character (or whatever it is called, he was part of the gun package) and I am pretty sure he had more than one weapon (the servo harness maybe?), but that one ap2 weapon ignored all my armor saves, including celestine. I didn't use hit and run because then he had a lot of firepower on that side he could point at my seraphim, so I wanted them locked in close combat.
I don't like the krak grenades much, as I understood it I can only throw 1 grenade? and that is at s6. Which means against anything with armor 11+ I wont even bother, since they will probably get destroyed by that very tank/dread the next round if they are still visible/within charge range. In stead I just ran off with them and hid behind a cliff on his side to score linebreaker.
I see a lot of people use combi-plasma on their bss superiors, and I think that could help me as well. I am thinking plasma pistol + eviscerator would be awsome, but it's 40 points which is too much. So right now I am leaning towards bringing an eviscerator, giving me 6str, ap2 and armorbane. I like this better than a meltabomb since I can use it against 2+ armor as well.
6-10 krak grenades are fine against most targets. Pretty sure the tech is still a char and only one attack is ap2. Evis isn't bad if you have the points
pretre wrote: 6-10 krak grenades are fine against most targets. Pretty sure the tech is still a char and only one attack is ap2. Evis isn't bad if you have the points
Doesn't it say in a rulebook that in a unit only one model may throw a grenade in a phase? When we checked the rulebook during the game (was my first time with grenades in the new system) I got the impression you could throw only one, but I might be mistaken. If not then krak grenades are actually quite decent. Having to get behind the tank to get to it's actually penetratable armor side could still be an issue? You are not allowed to assault a tank if you have 0 chance of penetrating it, meaning you can't assault it, then hit and run behind it for better positioning the next round.
That one ap 2 attack was enough to take down celestine who was down on wounds and fail her +4 inv check, and the seraphim squad started at 7, was taken down to 4 or 5 by the time they reached him, and his normal attacks was enough to take them down to 2 units or so, and fail their morale test. Can't remember if I was needing snake eyes at that point. That game was a week and a half ago and my memory isn't that good,
As you can tell I have not played that much 40k, and less so with the new edition rules, so I am sorry if I am asking stupid questions or making the wrong conclusions.
His normal attacks come first and should have bounced off Celestine. Then the ap2 hits her and the squad hits and runs. Obviously that's not what you did, but whatever. I also would have sent the superior into the challenge so as not to lose fearless against him. Just so you know for next time.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In assault everyone gets to hit with a grenade against rear armor. Makes krak pretty nasty. Do a disordered charge against a squad and a tank and then hit an run at te end of their turn.
pretre wrote: Throw is limited to one but assault is different.
His normal attacks come first and should have bounced off Celestine. Then the ap2 hits her and the squad hits and runs. Obviously that's not what you did, but whatever. I also would have sent the superior into the challenge so as not to lose fearless against him. Just so you know for next time.
Well if I could have challenged him I would, I do not have the space marine codex here, so I can't check how the gun crew is appended to the gun, since I am new I usually go along with whatever the regular players tell me. What do you mean by send the superior into the challenge? As far as I know, only another character can intervene and that's by taking a challengees place during the challenge, but otherwise no models may interact with the challengers other than to add rerolls for every 5 models in the unit watching (which would have given me at least one reroll).
In assault everyone gets to hit with a grenade against rear armor. Makes krak pretty nasty. Do a disordered charge against a squad and a tank and then hit an run at te end of their turn.
pretre wrote: Have the superior challenge him or accept the challenge instead of Celestine.
Front armor instead against walkers.
Then just hope the superior wins the challenge? I assume at this point it is using an eviscerator to even have a chance, or am I suppose to swap celestine back in at some point?
Sorry pestering you about this, I just want to get my head around it so I know what to do in other similar situations.
By the sound of it I definitely don't need the plasma pistol, just contemplating cutting off the power sword on the superior and adding an eviscerator, or if a melta bomb will be enough. Stupid question, but I can throw the melta bomb each round of assault correct? It's not only 1 in the first round, and then I am empty. Core rulebook doesn't say anything about a limit, but I think I remember there being one in 5th? logically the model would only be able to carry one bomb on her if we were going for realism, heh. I could glue like 5 meltabombs around on her body though. :3
I like pentinent engines, but IMO they work best as a squad of 3. If it takes a hull point loss you can move foreword with the wounded one in the back. They are a huge target so more than likely 1 will die quick, the added numbers helps them last to get to midfield and wreck some face.
I just wanted to help clear up some of the confusion around that Techmarine.
He is a crewman for the Thunderfire and as such he cannot be challenged unless the Cannon is already dead. He also has a Servo - harness meaning he gets a flamer, Twin-linked plasma pistol and bolt pistol, and can fire any 2 guns at a time. Additionally he has 2 servo arms which ignore armour, and a 2+ armour save.
The trick is not to challenge him, it is to drown him in attacks. He is only T4 and once he's gone the cannon dies too!
Naminé wrote: Hey guys,
The trick is not to challenge him, it is to drown him in attacks. He is only T4 and once he's gone the cannon dies too!
I pretty much was drowning him in attacks, I must have had around 25 attacks that first round without pulling a single wound on him, and that was just the assault, nevermind the shooting beforehand. I really didn't have much luck in that fight, but I do think I forgot to test act of faith on them, which would have made the unit a lot tougher. He just never rolled any ones on the dice. Even so, the techmarine is pretty good.
Anyway, I just ordered myself an avenger strike fighter, and am contemplating what the best options for it would be. Since it will probably die pretty early I am guessing the missiles might be the best choice, since you might only get to shoot for one round before it goes down, and for the missiles the hellstrike (which costs +20 points, has 72" range, ap3 and ordenance 1) might be the best bet? You do get two of them which is pretty nice. Chaff could also be good, but only works against missiles, chances are you will be shot down by a quadgun so it wont matter much. I wish it flyer was more worth its points and could take a fast attack slot rather than a heavy, but I still like having something new I can order, paint and add to the list. I am pretty new to playing the game, but I have played some fifth and I actually started collecting them when dow: soulstorm came out.
I had a game this very evening against a young female (yes, they do exist) Dark Eldar player who had a tough time dealing with the sheer amount of units I had. If she stayed in long range, Exorcists and Auto cannons would grind her transports down and if she went closer, well then it was the wall of bolter and flame we are so famous for. We had a long talk after the game about the chess metaphor I mentioned earlier and why it hindered her movement the way it did. I won the game because I could force her to move in a certain way, mostly due to the fact that she is a relative new player. Don't get me wrong, she is a good player and a damn lot better than I was after only a handful of games and as she plays more games she will become more and dangerous! But what sealed her fate in the end was a situation where I moved my Penitent engine to my left flank. Spearheading her army on that flank was a Raider with Lelith and her unit of Wyches. By putting the engine as a cover for my softer targets of Seraphims and allied 
Duh.....
) in your opponent's face immediately. This forces your opponent to focus on the suicide Doms for at least a turn, buying your PEs some precious time to navigate the table. Otherwise, even with 9, being really the only "armor" you have I am not sure enough will make it into combat with something to make a difference.
I did expect a few casualties so did bring some along but a few fell off every game was most annoying 
