It's a sisters and ig. Both can use it. Fluff wise it's perfect for sisters. They have access to other fliers but they arnt as effective or worth their points. I think sisters have 2 or 3 fliers available through forgeworld, great thing is they are non apoc.
Using Forgeworld produced 40K models is fine. And frankly, without Forgeworld, sisters don't get the Repressor transport, which is a massive help to them.
Obviously all the Apoc stuff is out, but most all for 40K is fine.
The repressor? Its absence hasn't seemed to cost me any games. What will cost me games is absurdity like the Achilles and the crazy drop pods and things of that nature. One doesn't need a vast imagination to suppose what thosekinds of things will do to a game of 40K. So again, maybe for casual games if your opponent says "sure, looks like fun". Otherwise, nay.
Not opposed to all Forge World by the way. I like some of it.
We don't really have anything "must have" game mechanically in forgeworld, Fluff wise it really is "must have" for me though. They are not terrible units either, and makes the army look more varied and different than without. It's not like we get anything official new from gw, and the last codex update decided to reduce the amount of available units rather than add to it. Not that I mind the focus of shift from witch hunters to just sisters of battle, just wish they would have added some new units and models to go with.
I was trying to find the Achilles in the imperial armor books I have available, 1 and 2, but couldn't find it. Which book is it located in? The site recommends the imperial armor apocalypse book, but I assume it only has apocalypse units? Checking out the drop pods they didn't seem that crazy, and I think I saw a mention of all the imperial armor books getting a rule update in the future to put them in line for sixth edition? They did it with the first book anyway.
The only ' easy way ' (see: cheaper, it'll be a reasonable amount of effort or it'll look like ass) would be a combination of Plasticard, Foamboard and bits.
Shandara wrote: Problem with the missiles is they are Ordnance. If you fire an Ordnance weapon all your other weapons can only be snap-shotted.
I run mine with Autocannons and just focus on infantry/light armor.
Aha, since we (sob) don't have any ordnance I had forgotten how they work, I have a vindicator of old but haven't used it since last summer. I do however feel like our anti infrantry is covered well enough as it is? In that case then autocannon seems to be the best choice.
I am trying to plan for a 2000 point game, and for that I am trying to (kinda have to) spend some points in a canoness with command squad or celestians. Is the command squad a waste of points, or is it potentially good by adding three multimeltas combined with the act of faith? Is there anything in the rules that says the canoness has to join the command squad, or can I just add a small command squad with an MM immolator while putting the canoness with celestians? The canoness seems to go better with celestians where they can buff her str and she can buff their initiative. To that effect I am trying to plan her wargear as well, and it seems I am in the same conundrum as with the seraphim in whether to bring a melta pistol or eviscerator. The melta pistol might go better with the command squad option. The eviscerator is wasting her initiative boost on her act of faith, but can work well with the celestians act of faith, making it hit at 8str. That's 4 attacks at 8str, ignores armor (and wounds on anything str4) and ws5 on the charge with possible preferred enemy. I guess the rest of the celestians would go with h. flamer, flamer and maybe plasma pistol/sword on the superior to maximize their melee/close range effectiveness? Would it also be best to go with a squad of 6 and put them in an MM immolator? I wish the canoness herself wasn't so squishy with an armor save of 3+ and T3, so even with 3 wounds she will get one hit by anything str6+, stubborn does help though.
Alternatively, might it be better to spend the points on uriah jacobs or a confessor with plasma gun and some combination of battle conclave?
Sorry for asking so many questions and thanks for the help.
Better to just take another BSS squad, or add repentias then?
For fast attack, is it best to go with one seraphim squad and two dominion squads? I am actually not too fond of scouts since I feel they make too tempting targets for my opponents and will score them first blood easier, so I feel that if I should take one dominion squad I should probably take two for target saturation? Maybe drive them together to give each other cover? I do feel that seraphim squad is better, but I also don´t feel like I need two of them.
As it is now, I have coteaz and a henchmen squad in every list I make, which does help fill some points.
The ones that are marked in yellow are the hot units which I consider moving in or out depending. I am 16 points over the total, which I might take out from the seraphim squad, or I might take out the gk squad and add inn another bss.
I have not gotten to test the dreadknight yet, as I´ve only had time for smaller games lately, so will be fun to test it. I am worried that it will die too fast and not be worth it´s points, and an autocannon dread with psybolt ammo might be better. However, most of that list is based upon the discussion from the last two pages.
Not sure why I should take bastion over ADL though, I don´t think I want my retributors in there as they will not be able to fire everything at an enemy unit through only 2 windows on one side. Taking the ADL gives me a better gun and at 10 points less, and I can put the retributors behind the armored line.
I haven´t fully understood outflanking as I haven´t had to read up on it yet, not using any scouts myself, nor have any opponents, so I do not know if it´s any good or bad.
I haven´t fully understood outflanking as I haven´t had to read up on it yet, not using any scouts myself, nor have any opponents, so I do not know if it´s any good or bad.
Really? Missing the boat! Going second is a distinct possibility ion every game so you gotta have a plan.
Infiltrators AND Scouts can make an outflank move.
They start in reserve. As normal, you roll to see if they come on from reserve (3+). If so you roll AGAIN to see which SIDE they come on from! So in other words, the board edges opposite the ones you deploy from are where they pop out!
1-2 Left side
3-4 Right side
5-6 Your choice
So 67% chance of being on the side you want, behind enemy lines! You can take your dedicated transports with you. So you could move on 6", deploy up to 6" and burninate/Meltinate whatever happens to be standing there.
It's fun. But more importantly, if you are going second, it allows these powerful units to squeeze the enemies deplyment without even being there and then blast anything silly enough to be standing too close to the edges. either way you are now Line Breaking, havent exposed yourself before your ready to enemy fire and if you make good use of terrain, you'll be able to Pac-Man the enemy from the sides as well as the front.
Good times. I was the Reserve gambit king in 5E. there's a little less need for it in the new rules but its still awfully good for Sisters of Battle Dominion squads.
I would not suggest waiting for plastic sisters. I have been hearing rumors of and waiting for plastic sisters almost since I started playing. (So about 15 years.)
They look decent on paper for Doms but are probably too spendy for normal sisters squads (both points and cost). Sisters squads should be as cheap as possible, imo.
Are they even really worth it for doms though? Most of the firepoints can only be used for "basic weapons" which I always took to mean no special weapons.
Oh, I missed that part. If you can only use bolters than I probably wouldn't use it for Doms either. You're basically paying 15 points for a dozer blade and heavy flamer. Which is okay, but not something I'm going to go gaga for.
Objectively... Both have the same base chasis and roughly the same footprint. Both are AV 11/11/10 with 3HP. Both have 3 Access Points and carry 10 men. Both are BS4
Pros: Rhinos: 35pts (cheap delivery method) Has Repair and Shield of Faith.
Repressors: Have 7 Fire Points Has a Heavy Flamer, Searchlight and Dozer Blade as standard. (roughly 26pts worth of equipment.) Can take Blessed Ammo / Holy Promethium / Holy Icon / Laud Hailer, which pretty no other Sisters stuff get anymore. Are slightly taller, so give easier cover.
Cons: Rhinos: Only 2 Firepoints. Only armed with a Storm Bolter.
Repressors: 50pts (though this is barely a con... it's probably worth 60-70 as is, and you imperials get such incredibly cheap transports it's unreal.) 6 of the 7 Fire Points can only fire basic weapons (such as las / bolt pistols, lasguns / bolters). Are slightly taller, so slightly harder to gain cover. One of only 2 Vehicles in the Sisters of Battle book without Shield of Faith (the other being the Avenger Strike Fighter)
I think they'd be best suited for Battle Sister Squads to be fair. Having base troops in these, then heavier stuff boasting Immolators. Now if only they weren't just boxes with boxes on top.
No, just put the turret on the top of the immolator for immolators.
Rhino=Rhino
Rhino with Immo top plate and Storm Bolter turret thingy (converted to HF) = Repressor
RHino with Immo top plate and Immolator Turret = Immolator
Although I have a ton of old rhinos for my SOB that I don't use for anything.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dpal666 wrote: OK, trying a 1750 list for the BAO, lemme know what you think.
Ugh. That's a lot of BSS that are going to be doing nothing. Flamer/HF with no ride? yikes. No searchlights. Yikes. Canoness? Uck. Immolator without a MM? Ick. The only part of your army doing the heavy lifting is your exos and rets, the rest of your army is dead weight. I would think about punching it up a bit. Also might consider a fort with quad or icarus.
If you are stuck on the BSS, I would drop one squad. Upgrade the immos to TL-MM. Give the Rets a simulacrum and the other squads a Rhino. Get some melta in those BSS. Find some points for at least an aegis and probably a bastion. Drop the Canoness for literally any other HQ (Celestine?).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and if you have points, combis for the Doms and or Superiors would be nice.
You could drop some battlesisters for celestine and seraphims. Might be a nice investment from what I hear. (Still waiting for my sisters to come in from ebay, so proxies are all I got atm)
Celestine may get instakilled a whole lot, but she willl just come back up. If only Yarrick had that ability to try over an over again.... he would fit the pricetag he has now.
Alright, looking for advice on how to deal with monstrous creatures!
Specifically nid MC's. Ran up against a tourney list today that had 3 tervigons and Swarmlord (and guard, 2x10 gants, 30 gargoyles, zoanthropes, ymargls and Doom).
The die were not on my side, so it got uglier than it really should have, but iron arm on 2 tervigons and the swarmlord just was... ew. DK couldn't even force weapon anything out even if I made the 3d6 check.
I was running a pretty standard Sisters with GK allies list... any advice on target priority or how to deal with 20+ T7-9 wounds would be greatly appreciated
Celestine is hilarious full stop. Especialy since she almost always strikes first (even with Warp Speed). Pop a few wounds, get splatted (or not), get up and go again! My Tryanid opponents love her.
Metaguns aren't overly useful, if they get a shot off that unit is getting squished next turn.
Multimeltas are better, but even with average rolling I'm going to kill one beasty a turn, assuming he makes/gets no cover save or FNP?
I agree Celestine is a beast, but I also think people have come to over-rely (or over-expect and thus over-whine about ) on her ability to get back up. There is just as equal a chance she stays down, and now I'm turn behind on getting anything done.... assuming she even gets up the next chance she gets.
Is there anything I'm missing, or any tricks you guys use? Looking for anything a bit more in depth than "shoot them with melta" Do we really have any other options?? I thought about hit-and-run eviscerators with Celestine, but unsure if that war of attrition is worth it given how good seraphim are at cleaning up the little bugs.
If she is up at the end of the game, she doesn't count for first blood, slay the warlord or vp in kill point missions. So the second slain unit would count.
Nearing the end of my paint queue for Sisters. After a year I've painted a massive amount, but it's nearly all done. That said, after about 180 sister models I don't think I'll be painting red capes for a while. (or white hair).
Now I also have 10 Frateris Militia on my desk, but I saved them for last since they don't have actual rules anymore, but what should I use them as?
I was thinking of getting some more and using them as an allied IG platoon or possibly a GK warrior acolyte squad. Possibly with an Inquisitor (I'll have to check the GK codex to see if any inquisitor can take acolytes as troops).
I would use them as you said, allies. Hopefully, they will get rules again in the future.
My redemptionists (from codex: Chapter Approved) got converted into IG allies until we get the unit back. Unfortunately, that means the 10-15 guys with eviscerators are just bench-warming for a while.
For fun you could pick up a second squad of seraphims of like 5, put two inferno pistols and an eviscerator or plasma pistol on them. They would hurt pretty bad especially with reroll to wound act of faith. Could roll them with celestine for a pretty badass MC hunting squad? Doms with melta in a melta immo are probably better though. Since you go Gk you could test the purifier squad I will describe below.
As for the repressors I don't find them particulary good, but I like them because they make my army more unique and sister-ish than rhinos do. There are a lot of pro's to bringing some kind of transport for our weak sisters, but so far I lose first blood to dead rhino/repressor in every game I have played, so I think footslogging is just better now adays. I pretty much rely on celestine getting up or not dying to even out the score. If they do survive they are nice if only for the ability to fire any weapon from the top hatch, running the melta out of that hatch allowed one sister to take out an Iron Clad dreadnaught with one shot without the melta range bonus. Lucky dice though.
I also went with quad gun rather than las cannon last game with my ADL and coteaz, and really noticed that a las would have been better, since I use the unit for it's high strength on plasma cannons and las cannons anyway, my other sisters can take care of the rest. Having twin linked doesn't really matter much either, with the psych power to reroll to hits for your whole squad.
I did also test out a purifier squad with my GK, and holy gak did it hurt my opponent. Don't have the book here, but with psy ammo and standing still I think it's 16 shots at str 8 with rending, and then you get 12 bolter shots on top of that. On top of that they are pretty badass in melee, and can take out anything that might threaten them there as well. Thinking the best use for these is to put them at an objective if possible. Still, the squad is like 300 points, and the 24" range on the psycannon does hurt the squads effective range.
I did also test out a purifier squad with my GK, and holy gak did it hurt my opponent. Don't have the book here, but with psy ammo and standing still I think it's 16 shots at str 8 with rending, and then you get 12 bolter shots on top of that.
Psybolt ammo doesn't improve psycannons... Unless you're talking about something else here...
I did also test out a purifier squad with my GK, and holy gak did it hurt my opponent. Don't have the book here, but with psy ammo and standing still I think it's 16 shots at str 8 with rending, and then you get 12 bolter shots on top of that.
Psybolt ammo doesn't improve psycannons... Unless you're talking about something else here...
Oh damn, then I've been cheating. When you metion it, I remember it being restricted to certain weapons, but since it doesn't mention it in the squad selection I didn't think about it when I wrote the list. Still, str 7 is quite alright, but it does mean it wont instakill any multiple wound space marine character. Can only pen up to 13 armor, but it does get rending when it does pen, so it's still pretty good.
Right, I used rending mostly to bypass armor last game, and forgot about the added armor pen against vehicles part, which is good since it would make up for me rolling as strength 8.
Why would something being AP2 matter against vehicles?
Thanks for pointing this stuff out for me. Will be playing against necrons again tomorrow which I think will be pretty tough.
Edit: Just wanted to chip in on the plastic figures rumor. I think I read some gw guy being in possession of the plastic sisters during the codex release of sisters in summer 2011 (having been rumored in development earlier in the year). I went kinda spaz at the time and ordered up what I needed in metal sisters so I could use whatever looked the best. I am not sure how accurate that rumor is, but I am not sure why someone would lie about it either. So I am hoping we will see an official release within a year or two.
Not a big game, but the store is smallish and it's going to be 6 players I believe. Tables won't be too large either, like 4x4 at most.
Giving this list a try:
HQ:
Celestine
Troops:
Sister Squads x 2 (same gear) - Melta, Multi Melta
Fast:
Seraphims x 7 - 2 x hand flamers and plasma pistol/Eviscerator on VSS Dominions x 5 - melta x 2 and combi-flamer on the VSS - Immolator with multi melta and search lights
Heavy Support:
Exorcist
Fortication:
Aegis line with Icarus Lascannon
I think I can cover all corners. I have plenty of meltas to deal with potential dreads in my backfield or any tanks or 2+ infantry advancing on me.
I have some serious horde control in the seraphim and the plasma pistol allows me to hit and run into a position where I might be able to snipe characters or non storm shield terminators if necessary. I could however possibly replace the multi melta on the Immolator for a heavy flamer for a little bit more horde control.
Strategy will change if Im going first or second, specially when it comes to the dominions
I don't expect to face multiple flyers in a 1000 points game, but assuming there is at least 1, I can keep Celestine and the seraphim behind the aegis line for a turn or two (use them as a counter charge element) and use celestine to man the gun, she should basically hit just about any flyers coming in with interceptor and shoot them down. It's also got somewhat of a chance to kill the possible Lemann Russ or Land Raider I might see while not needing to be in melta range.
Any advice on the above? I have no clue what I might face, but I expect the standard top armies. Space Wolf, Necrons or Guard, the later of which I am not afraid unless he brings in 5-10 ogryns and a commissar lord to run forward.
Usually you get an objective close enough to the ADL that you can just have your troop choice camp the gun while still being in scoring range. Then use your other BSS squad for capturing any other objectives. Seems kind of a waste to keep celestine at the gun for even one round, and if you do, then it might be better to only have her man the gun and send the seraphim squad by themselves.
So far I have not played a 1000 point game with the ADL but personally I would have a retributor squad rather than a dominion squad in the game, and use the retributor squad to man the gun, which I think will give the quad-gun rending with the act of faith. Don't read this as a suggestion, just saying what I would do, don't really think one option is better than the other in this case, especially if you just use your BSS to man the gun. At 1250+ points I always bring Coteaz from grey knights to man the gun with a henchmen squad, following the excellent suggestion and explanation for why on page 69 by MikhailLenin as quoted by Pretre.
I don't post on Dakka much, but I noticed that this was me (and that I'm pretty sure quiestdeus, who was asking for advice against Nids was the other player there, as I'm fairly sure I played the Nid list he was talking about in my third game).
First, let me apologize for the formatting of the list that you see in that link; apparently my version of word isn't terribly compatible with whatever software they run at the shop. The list was:
Celestine
Jacobus
BSS with Heavy Bolter
BSS with Multi-Melta and a Rhino with Searchlights
9 Seraphim with 2 Hand-Flamers and an Eviscerator
3 Exorcists
Company Command Squad with Lascannon
Platoon Command Squad with Lascannon
5 Infantry Squads with Flamer, Lascannon, Power Axe, and Meltabombs
Manticore
I've been playing 40k for almost three years now, and I've been running Sisters the entire time (with a brief period where I ran my Seraphim as a counts-as BA Jumper list when the new codex came out and I needed time to build/paint a list). But this was my first time running this list with the exception of two practice games, so I don't vouch for its worth. A few comments on it:
Celestine/Seraphim and the Jacobus blob were solid every game. The Manticore never did anything, although it is really just there to help deal with T4/5 multiple wound models, which I didn't run into. The Exorcists didn't do much against DE or Necrons, but they were great when the Nids showed up. I don't like them really; they're too random, but I knew there was going to be a couple of Nid lists that I'd need them for, so I took them. Our troops are pretty terrible, so I only took two and mostly just camped on objectives. I took the Rhino just so I could searchlight things, which was very helpful in two of my games. I only have 4 troops (if I blob up, which I generally do), but that was enough in all the games; a single sister hiding behind a destroyed Exorcist or a Guardsmen behind a ruin where he can't be seen is enough to hold an objective and Celestine is pretty good at making sure they aren't holding any/many.
Overall, I wasn't terribly happy with the list. The infantry portions and tank portions didn't support each other the way I'd like and flyers gave me fits; I didn't damage a single one despite shooting at them continually. Any advice on flyers would be appreciated. I'd like to run an all-foot Sisters/IG list and just ignore them, but I have a hard time finishing tournament games with this list as it is.
As for the Nids, I took first so I had a few turns of shooting before they hit me. I was able to take down a Tervigon and some Zoenthropes first turn and another one as well as the Gargoyles second turn. His fancy Genestealers came in, charged the blob, and died, although it took a couple of turns (they were T5 and the blob had been Enfeebled and had something else on it that made it reroll hits and wound rolls of a six). The Doom cam in and killed a squad of Sisters and most the PCS and CCS, but then I moved away from it and it couldn't really do anything. So his army was fairly neutered by the time it got to me. So I guess against Nids, Exorcists and allied heavy weapons. The T 7/8/9 thing makes bolters useless, we don't use plasma, and we can't really get melta in sufficient quantity to do the job (and it too easy to screen against scouting Dominions).
Glad to see your post Simon! Yeah, Keith's list tore me up... it seemed like a perfect storm. Excluding 1 tervigon each MC had iron arm, Swarmlord and some Zoeys could cast endurance, 5 objectives that we placed (so he clustered 2 next to one of mine), and the fact that the deployment was spearhead meant that when I lost first turn I really only had 1 solid turn of shooting before everything was crashing into my face.
FNP was really the star of the game on his side, and I knew I was in trouble when 2 plasma cannons, 3 lascannons, both exorcists and the rending heavy bolters only managed to do 3 wounds on a tervigon.
I think if I had faced him in any other round it would have been more interesting, but thems the ropes
With respect to fliers... I always end up taking a Bastion if I take GK allies, an ADL or a Vendetta if I take Guard so I always have one answer. For the most part though, I ignore them... the only ones that I find really scary are kitted out Void Ravens (I think those are the DE fliers), but I tend to demolish the rest of the DE army anyways so they end up mostly just a nuisance. All the AP1 and AP2 we run love open topped AV10 vehicles
I am really leaning towards trying out a bastion with retributors and Kyrinov inside. Give them a boost to their faith check, a "free" similacrum, and making a 6" fearless bubble around the bastion seems too good to pass up. Would work much better with guard allies than GK but I am completely enamored with my DK right now, so we'll see if I ever do it.
Ya, I was definitely helped by going first and by the fact that I think the only Iron Arm he rolled up was on the Swarmlord. I made sure to take down the Tervigon that I knew had the FnP power before he could go.
I'm planning on taking a Bastion full of Retributors to TempleCon, but that has more to do with what I can get painted by then than what I think will work (although, as mentioned, I don't think the list is really working anyhow, so...). I just can't see the Quad-Gun living long enough to do anything (and even if it is alive, it has a pretty dismal chance of actually taking a flyer out before it gets to do anything). I am taking an Astropath (or is it a Master of the Fleet...I get those two confused) to try and delay enemy reserves a bit; I think I'd have a much better time with enemy flyers if they were coming on one at a time.
The DE player I played first round gave me quite a thrashing, although a part of that was because I forgot that Daemons come in first turn and didn't deploy correctly (the joys of not really playing 40k for the past 5 months). That and two Voidravens hitting my blob pretty hard. He would have won handily if the game went on, but we ran out of time.
How's the DK doing for you? I was a fan in 5th (although I didn't use them personally), but with the increase in plasma (and anti-heavy infantry shooting generally), I'd be wary if I played GK. But if he's working for you, awesome.
The DK was the star of more than one game. The heavy incinerator really helps against all the foot lists out there (especially necrons, the AP4 is great and they really don't have many answers for a T6 2+ beast anyway) and the 30" shunt move is just stellar for contesting at the end of the game, or getting into something's face on the first turn. I've been trying to find points to compliment the DK with dominions, but it is tough. I haven't come across any marine plasma-spam, so I could be bias... but with the personal teleporter I love having vets in chimeras try and chase the DK around - sure they get a shot to hit here and there, but with 4 wounds and that 5++, as long as I stay just out of rapid fire range I've been all set.
I definitely always take the lascannon when choosing between that and a quad gun. You bring it to shoot fliers and S9 Ap2 just ends up being so much better than S7, even when you compare number of shots. If you're running guard toss your CCS with another lascannon on the battlements, issues orders (including twin-linking themselves) and go to town. I may end up doing something similar next tourney, having a CCS with Masters of the Fleet and Ordinance on top of the bastion.
The Lascannon would give me the points to fill out my Seraphim squad, which would be nice. The math is really quite a lot worse for taking flyers down, as well as most infantry, but it is a bit better against MCs and high AV vehicles. I think I'll be able to get a practice game in this Thursday and we'll see what works.
Hmmm....good point. I just sort of assumed it would fit; I haven't actually tried placing one up there. While I do run the old metal Valhallans when I ally with guard, I have them all on 60mm bases to forestall objections. On the assumption it won't fit, I suppose I can't have a CCS up there (which is ironic because the picture in the rulebook has what appears to be a Voystroyan CCS on it). But that doesn't change all that much; I wasn't excited about having it exposed up there anyway.
Overall, I wasn't terribly happy with the list. The infantry portions and tank portions didn't support each other the way I'd like and flyers gave me fits; I didn't damage a single one despite shooting at them continually. Any advice on flyers would be appreciated.
You could have very easily fit a Vendetta in there, especially with all the (unnecessary) upgrades on the guard. That would have given fliers something to think about, and given you the help you needed against them.
i had a great game with my sisters at the weekend. 3000pts vs Red scorpions full of forgeworld beauties.
My list:
Celestine
Kyrinov
Jacobus + 3 crusaders and 6 DCAs in rhino
2 x 5 Repentia squads
4 x 12 BSS squads each with flamer and MM 3 x 6 Seraphim with 2x inferno pistols, 1 squad with an eviscerator
2 x 10 Dominions with 4 x flamer in a rhino
2 x 5 Retributor with 4 heavy bolters
2 x 7 Retributor with 4 heavy flamers in rhino
1 x Exocist with SB Aegis Defence line with Comms Relay
His list:
Commander Culln
Severin Loth
4 x terminator squad with assault cannon
All of above in a land raider, cant remember the varient
3 x Tac squads with Multimelta and flamer
1 x 5 man scout squad with sniper rifles
3 x Contemptor Dreadnoughts, 2 with twin keres assault cannons, 1 with 2x twin lascannons
1 x land raider achilles
1 x Predator with all lascannons
1 x Storm Eagle
2 x stormtalon
I may have missed a unit off there, but i cant remember properly.
Straight away i was worried about lots of AV13/14. I didnt want to alter my list at all(from one i made a little while ago and hadnt tested yet) even though i knew he was going to bring lots of armour. I wanted to see if i could cope.
We agreed to play an objective based mission and rolled off amongst the options, and got the Scouring. This suited me nicely with 5 FA choices, 3 of them being very mobile.
We also agreed to play that i got d3 faith points per 1000 points, so a max of 9 points per turn (i never used more than 5 in any one turn in the end)
Strategy:
- Concentrate all of my might into killing his tac squads and the scouts. Once this was done he was going to struggle to take as many objectives as i could.
- Ignore his flyers unless there was nothing else i could shoot at.
- Kyrinov would stay with the BSS and keep them from running away from the objectives/defence line.
- Seraphim to DS really close to his heavy armour and try and pop them before he could respond, the comms relay would mean i could get all squads onto the table in the same turn, preferably the first turn possible so his armour was as bunched as it was going to be.
- Doms to outflank and flamer squads out of cover/off objectives
- BSS to stay still and hold back field objectives and then advance onto any mid-field objectives in turn 4/5
Highlights include:
- Both dominion squads finishing destroying a tac squad each in CC. although one squad did take 6 rounds of combat to do it!
- BSS finishing off a stormtalon with a snap shot multimelta
- Ignoring the land raider achilles the entire game, AV14 with no extra effect from melta was a waste of my time to try and kill, and my repentia were not close enough to it to try and chainfist it to death. In total i think the achilles killed a rhino and about 6 sisters. I can live with that!
- Deepstriking seraphim within 3 inches of the command land raider, popping it and then killing 2 of the terminator inside with the explosion, while taking no casualities myself
- Deepstriking seraphim within 3 inches of a contemptor and popping it straight away
- Him charging my battle conclave with Culln and Loth, after being warp speed-ed and stills triking after me and therefore dying from the amount of wounds i put out. Hes not going to do that again any time soon!
Lowlights:
- Repentia not having anything to go after, i use them as back field counter-chargers against deepstriking units of fast CC units. None of these happened. So 180 not used
- Heavy flamer retributors not managing to effect much, although they finished off the scout squad and the remnants of a tac squad. If anything had got to my back field it would have been toasted, but only his fliers did.
- Celestine actually being dead at the end of the game! (Meaning he got firstblood and slay the warlord)
Result:
- Both had slay the warlord
- He had first blood
- I had line breaker
- I held 5 of the objectives, he held none
- He had killed 3 of my FA (2 x seraphim and 1x doms) i had killed 1 of his (storm talon)
WIN for SoB. 15 - 5
Pretty happy with how the whole army played. Im really getting into using flamers and heavy bolters more than anything else. The exorcist is just too unreliable for my tastes (i know i only used 1), although it did draw a lot of fire. The more i play the more i just love a ton of sisters of the field.
Sounds like a nice battle. I did a 6k vs 6k battle this weekend (some pictures in my gallery), but didn't think of recording any of it on paper.
I also had repentia trouble. Not able to buy a transport themselves really hurts (not that I had enough transports to cover all my squads anyway). Footslogging is so slow.
They did kill some stuff though.
I didn't have much luck with deepstriking my seraphim though, since 1 squad mishapped and got destroyed.
My local store is running a campaign and is using rules from Planet Strike, Cities of Death, Crusade of Fire and etc. Now I'm not to worried about most expansions as they don't change the game to much (at least for sisters). But Planet Strike does a lot of changes to the game (like everything is scoring and FOC is different). So these games are suppose to be 1000 points. I have come up with two lists for attacking:
1000:
Saint Celestine: 115
3x5 Seraphims with 2 Twin Hand Flamers and melta bomb: 375
3x5 Dominions with 2 flamers: 240
2 Excorist: 270
Or
Saint Celestine: 115
3x5 Seraphims with 2 Twin Hand Flamers and melta bomb: 375
2x5 Dominions with 2 flamers and melta bomb: 160
2 Immolators with Multi Meltas: 160
2 Penitent Engines: 170
Total: 990 (10 points to spare)
The plan for these lists is to deep strike within 8 of a bastion and flame the people inside before assaulting the bastion and using gernades to clear up what remains and take the bastion for myself.
But I really need a list for defending and possibiliy some tactics in defending in planet strike. Though feedback on attacking is also welcome.
I haven't played those expansions, but my gut is to go with the first list. Although... Aren't vehicles deathtraps in those expansions? Might want to swap the Exos for something else.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
scrunty wrote: i had a great game with my sisters at the weekend. 3000pts vs Red scorpions full of forgeworld beauties.
Thanks for the report, scrunty! Not a fan of DS'ing Seraphim, but it sounds like it really worked out for you.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Banosby wrote: Hmmm....good point. I just sort of assumed it would fit;
Yeah, I tried it and the Icarus + HWT do not fit. HWT takes up most of the space itself.
If your defending and you deployed your vechiles instead of keeping them in reverses, then yes it is a death trap as the fire storm will kill them. Other then that can't see how it is a death trap.
You could have very easily fit a Vendetta in there, especially with all the (unnecessary) upgrades on the guard. That would have given fliers something to think about, and given you the help you needed against them.
Kinda silly I know, but I don't take flyers. I'm not happy with how they interact with 6th and don't think they're good for the game, at least as-is.
scrunty wrote: i had a great game with my sisters at the weekend. 3000pts vs Red scorpions full of forgeworld beauties.
My list:
Celestine
Kyrinov
Jacobus + 3 crusaders and 6 DCAs in rhino
2 x 5 Repentia squads
4 x 12 BSS squads each with flamer and MM 3 x 6 Seraphim with 2x inferno pistols, 1 squad with an eviscerator
2 x 10 Dominions with 4 x flamer in a rhino
2 x 5 Retributor with 4 heavy bolters
2 x 7 Retributor with 4 heavy flamers in rhino
1 x Exocist with SB Aegis Defence line with Comms Relay
Couple of questions. How do you feel the inferno pistols fared during that game? I have been considering testing them, but so far I am pretty happy with my eviscerator superior (who took down an ironclad dread on the first try in my first game, and a necron stalker thing in the second). When I get the placement right the hand flamers are pretty devestating, but most of the time I can only get one sister with hand flamers to the front of the squad to use her flamers freely in combination with celestines flame sword (I usually run them together), so that one flamer pistol seraphim is unused, most of the time. Due to 6th edition wound allocation I try to keep my flamer sisters in the middle or towards the back of the squad, so they won't die on the way to their destination. It is nice to have d3*5 hits for overwatch though. :3
Also, I am wondering why you didn't go with any simulacrum imperialis with your retributor squads, I think it's pretty handy, but do you feel it's not worth the point cost? Especially if you have agreed to house rules and you are utilizing jacobus giving you a pretty good faith point pool to use. If you would not have one for every squad, then I am not sure which of the heavy flamers squads and heavy bolters squads would benefit the most though. I like the idea of having heavy flamer retributors in a rhino though, too bad the heavy bolter retributors, exorcist and avenger uses the same heavy support slot.
I know you said that the opposing list had a lot of armor, and that you didn't want to change your list from one you had made earlier, but even so isn't the amount of anti-armor and anti-vehicle a little low? I too am not a big fan of the random nature of the exorcist, but for some reason I usually average out to few missiles that hit or many missiles that don't hit. vOv At 1500 I now only bring 1 (but have other things that can take down armor with me), but on a 3k game you probably should have at least 2, and more meltas? That's without even knowing if your opponent is bringing a lot of armor or not.
Any thought to putting a Sister squad on top of a Bastion? Seems like a decently safe spot to stick them if they don't have a rhino, and assuming proper positioning it can enable a last turn objective grab.
Part of me just thinks there are so many other better options... but if you were playing a Sisters only list, with a Bastion (to stick Rets in) what unit would you have man the gun up top?
Just trying to think of something to do with our troop tax. I really want to both spent their rhino and weapon points on something else, and not just reserve them. A 125 point lascannon is pretty expensive, but it seems better than just starting them in reserve, ya know?
Keep in mind that the Lascannon plus advantageous LOS position + 6 extra potential rending shots and the AV14 box itself are all 125.
It is a pretty sweet deal for SOB.
Make sure to give the squad that sits in the bastion a MM.
So if you put a retributor squad in the bastion, go with 3 HB and a MM? When you say 6 extra shots that's 2 HB assuming they are coming in from an angle towards the building? Does this mean it is better to deploy the building as a diamond towards the table parallel rather than a square? I bought a bastion last weekend, but haven't had time to glue and try it in a game yet.
How about putting the retributor squad on top in stead of in the building? It has less models than a regular SSB so it's an esier fit, gives whatever gun you have up there rending (useless with las, but it would be awsome with a quad gun if that is an option?), and it gives them a nice LOS advantage to boot.
Could it be fun to try and have a full MM retributor squad in the building, and a full HB retributor squad on top?
Acidian wrote: So if you put a retributor squad in the bastion, go with 3 HB and a MM? When you say 6 extra shots that's 2 HB assuming they are coming in from an angle towards the building? Does this mean it is better to deploy the building as a diamond towards the table parallel rather than a square? I bought a bastion last weekend, but haven't had time to glue and try it in a game yet.
Personally, I would go 4 HB. I angle my bastion towards the enemy force, so if playing long board edges (Dawn of War), angle corner towards long edge. If playing Vanguard, angle corner to opposite corner, etc.
You can't run the 2HB from the top. You can use the Rending with the Quadgun, but IME the extra heavy bolters are better.
Could it be fun to try and have a full MM retributor squad in the building, and a full HB retributor squad on top?
If you're going to do that, put the MM on the top with an Icarus and the HB on the bottom with the HB.
PLayed a team game last night. 1K Sisters of battle and 1K IG on my side, and Space Wolves + Space marines on the other.
I have to say: the relic mission is just so tailor made for the Sisters of Batle. I've lost ZERO games on that mission. It's like taking candy from a baby (well...depends on the player, but sometimes they are babies about it. hehehehe).
Has anyone here lost on that mission yet? Seems like you'd need to try fairly hard to lose it.
You can't run the 2HB from the top. You can use the Rending with the Quadgun, but IME the extra heavy bolters are better.
If you're going to do that, put the MM on the top with an Icarus and the HB on the bottom with the HB.
Not a fan of MM rets though.
I meant if you switched the teams, so you would have the SSB unit inside the building. I am liking the thought of going retributors with quad gun, especially if going for a pure sister list. Can anyone in the unit man the gun, or does it have to be the superior?
Regarding having two ret teams, I was thinking MM inside would be better because they only have 24" range, being higher up slightly reduces that range in favor of better los, and having the mounted heavy bolters means that even if they are out of range, they might have 2 heavy bolters they can still fire at 36". I also agree that I don't like MM ret's much, since I feel the 24" range is too low for a unit that can't move and fire, combined with not being a scoring unit so you have no reason to keep it stationary at an objective, the added rending is also pretty useless so no point bringing a simulacrum here. Then there is the fact that it's taking a slot away from an extra exorcist, HB team or even an avenger. It could be fun to try, but the enemy would need a reason to go 24" near the building, and any other heavy support choice would be better.
pretre wrote: Rets with quad are fine but rets with 2 extra hb are better. You want to give the sup the hb or quad because of precision strikes.
Precision strikes? Damn, how do I keep missing out on these rules. What is interesting is that it seems none of my opponents pick up on these rules either. Well, free precision shots/strikes for all my (and my future opponents when I inform them) squad leaders it seems. Thanks pretre.
pretre wrote: Okay, I'm curious. What advantage do SOB have on Relic versus any other army?
Hopefully I can explain this on a forum well. You need to be a heartless general to do this so if you feint at the sight of your own blood, you might want to try something else!
2 Dominion Rhinos straight up the middle on a scout move, then 6+6" drop off brings them into base with the Relic centerline (unless you're using a monomolecular objective, not that it matters anyways as they are Fast Atttack). The Dominion run forward turn 1 to form two Dominion walls (preferably flamers in front though theres no guarantee on which one will run further, so fate will decide that) with Celestine behind them forming a third wall, so to speak with her run . Seraphim can form a fourth wall or be part of the third (personally I'd separate them unless depp striking them for that task which is mighty dangrous with so much crap around). Other tanks form a wide diamond behind in preparation. Sisters etc... fill the hollow in the diamond. The tanks form more tank shocking walls as the sisters fall back later in round 3. Move and run the troops up to take control in round 2 (filling the available space, given cover by the Rhino Diamond), moving backwards afterwards.
Its really bloody but really effective. we take huge losses but In five Relic Missions doing it, no game losses. Mostly lopsided. 6-1 and 5-2 type scores thanks to the Exorcists ability at getting first blood on a tank along with the Aegis (if you use one) and the inability to stop the Sisters from getting Linebreaker (enemy has to commit to the center) and often Celestine simply isn't killable. In the worst of games, a tie is probably the worst outcome you can hope for, especially when going second.
If going second, the plan changes only slightly, because now you can actually USE both the Dominions firepower, whereas you can only use 1 units firepower in plan 1 (because in plan 1, the near unit will likely be charged and forced to run when the enemy assaults them, though I do use 10 Dominion squads so I suppose theres always a chance they could hold). Either way works fine, really, it's just slower and you're more likely to be on the attack instead of simply sacrificing units left and right as in plan 1.
Most armies that have similar "wall speed" cant stand up to the shooting of the sisters and in any event are at least matched in positioning because of the scout move and now dont really have the option to assault.. So they dont really gain advantage per se on the objective unless they too are willing to make even MORE massive sacrifices than we would. Its not as if they can move very fast once the relic is in hand and we still have the walling ability to isolate the unit that took it if going second.
Not full proof. But it has been very frustrating to opponents. Heldrake provided the best answer to it to date. The new FAQ for Heldrakes is brutal, and will make it even tougher to fight. So far, the Heldrake fight was easily the hardest but we still prevailed 4-3.
So in that one mission, it's been good. It just takes too darn long to get through all that, spatially. Some tried the flank with Ds forces, but Sisters Repentia really kinda hurts a deep striking unit and the Rhino diamond plus available cover protects them until needed to a large extent... Not that the enemy can afford too much fire on anything but Dominions and troops in this kind of attack anyways, but still.
Maybe people will find that bit of tactica useful. Or not. Go Sisters of battle! Relic mission for the very bloody win.
I went to the grand opening of the GW shop in Jacksonville this past weekend. They did a 200 pt Kill Team tournament. Force Org was limited to
0-1 Elite
0-2 Troop
0-1 Fast Attack
I brought:
5 Celestians with 1x HB and 1x Flamer
5 Seraphim with 1x twin hand flamer and a PS on the Superior (I did this because I have an Ephrael Stern model and I always use it in my SoB lists so I had to buy the PS to make her WYSIWYG)
First match was against Tau, 2x6 FW and 3x Stealth Suits. The game was over in less than 15 minutes because for the life of me I couldnt roll a single armor save. Once you take 50% casualties you take a leadership check which I promptly failed with boxcars =-(
Second match I played against the exact same list and won by a pretty serious margin wiping all his units out with only taking three casualties.
Third I played a Grey Knight list that was 6 Knights in power armor with storm bolters (psy ammo?) and Force Halberds. I think there was some other wargear mixed in because the guy talked about one of his guys being "the deamon one". I dont know but I gunned him down pretty fast because I had numbers on my side.
Last I played an IG list that had 5 Storm troopers with 1xMelta, 1x Plasma and two Sentinels with Multi-lasers. This was over quick since all I had to do was focus on his troops forcing a LD check. even with 4+ armor they died quick. I think I only lost one girl due to a plasma pistol shot.
All in all, if you havnt tried kill team you should give it a shot. All models work independently and the board size we used was 2x3. The ruling on AoFs was that I had to roll for each model separately using a faith point each time. Fun times!
pretre wrote: Cool, thanks for the report!
@jancoran: are you disembarking the doms during scout move?
No. I just redeploy the Rhino 12" in the assault move. On turn one they disembark and form up their walls. If going second, you still go 12" because getting blown out of the Rhino is no big deal when all you plan to do is wall up anyways.
It's made no difference to date which way it goes. The Dominion are 100% expendable and as an abonus, if you can get Kyrinov nearby behind them (which I am not currently doing but...) then his fearlesssness will REALLy make those dominion obnoxious.
OutlawBandit, how did the flamers and HB serve you in killteam? I've put some thought into a killteam before, and the HB sounded like a great idea with primarily infantry targets and the ability to fire each shot at a different target. Flamers didn't sound like they'd be as effective though with no coherency. How'd that work out in practice?
I'd be tempted to just make a dominion squad with 4x melta or 3x melta and 1x flamer. I think that comes to about 200, with maybe enough for a combi on the Superior.
pretre wrote: Cool, thanks for the report!
@jancoran: are you disembarking the doms during scout move?
No. I just redeploy the Rhino 12" in the assault move. On turn one they disembark and form up their walls. If going second, you still go 12" because getting blown out of the Rhino is no big deal when all you plan to do is wall up anyways.
It's made no difference to date which way it goes. The Dominion are 100% expendable and as an abonus, if you can get Kyrinov nearby behind them (which I am not currently doing but...) then his fearlesssness will REALLy make those dominion obnoxious.
Aha. Makes more sense. I thought you were disembarking during scout, which is a no-no in 6th. Cool, thanks.
I love my sisters models, though I can't afford to get more (I have 1 Flamer, 1 Meltagun (both converted), 4 other sisters and a Canones converted into a superior).
I want to play with them so I'm considering getting one more blister, Celestine and an Exorcist (eventually a Rhino as well) and ally them to my DA. What do you think?
I saw a Battle report where they had 4 motorized Sisters units all Wargeared up, 3 Exorcists, St Celestine and a Seraphim squad.
I thought 4 was one too many Sisters Squads even though it obviously presents a pain in the arse as far as scoring threats go.
Just kind of an interesting build. No Sisters Repentia nor battle conclaves to repel Deep Strikers/rearguard threats et al, No Priests or Confessors of any kind, no dominion, just the one Seraphim unit and no Retributors. About as plain a list as you'll see. He used basically just three units.
Anyways, does anyone here have a build that so many are preferable? With the other elements he has, would you take 4? It's not like they wouldn't do damage. Bolters are bolters, they're pretty good weapons, but only when they are out of the Rhino. And with no way to guarantee preferred enemy for them, which would be a good reason to take them in goodly numbers...?
Perhaps but tactically, how does one make this work.
Let's say you face the Dark Eldar. You know that they can probably silence the Exorcists in round 1, if not actually kill them all. So that leaves you with pretty few options to kill any Dark Eldar with initially. Field shrinks and noiw youre in round 2. Same story and charges are becoming imminent. Bolters and Seraphim get some kills in round 2 probably. But will it be enough? Even the most basic of assault troops will not find a Sisters Squad overly difficult, even though Celestian is going to have a say.
The Dark Eldar go secopnd so they may just lose some speed elements early, but will it be enough?
hmm... It stands on a precipice. It would work great against hordes and such. LOTSA dakka once things get close. Maybe the Exorcists really aren't there to threaten, just be ablative for the Rhinos. that makes sense. It just puts so much pressure on Celestine and crew to perform.
My battles against Dark Eldar have always revolved around staying in cover as much as possible. Against Dark Eldar your Exorcist will, as you say, probably get busted too quick, unless you're lucky with cover saves.
Retributors aren't as easily silenced as Exorcists, which is why I take always at least 1 unit of them.
Note.. Celestine versus Lilith Hesperax doesnt end well. I learned this the hard way.
By then i have added guardsmen in to add spammable Heavy Weapons to compliment the Sister squads.
3 exorcists will probably die but not ALL in turn 1. You should at the very least have 1 maybe 2 left unless you just didnt utilize cover at all.
Even if they all died at least guardsmen add some LCs and RLs to take out those pesky Raiders/Venom spammers.
CCS orders Fire on my Target to force a reroll on all cover saves. Something has to hit em eventually .... Then send in the flamers to finish off anything that lost its ride.
So had my tournament today. Ended up slightly modifying my list since I needed fully painted/based models and I hadnt had a chance to paint my aegis line of defense.
1000 points. 5 turns max. 2 hours per game max. 4 x 4 tables. Useless warlord trait
Celestine
10 x BSS, Melta, Multi Melta, Melta Bombs
10 x BSS, Melta, Multi Melta, Combi Flamer
5 x Dominions. 2 x melta gun, plasma pistol and immolator with heavy flamer
7 x seraphims. 2 x hand flamers, plasma pistol and eviscerator
Exorcist
1 x Penitent engine
Game 1 was against a Vulkan list. Crusade and dawn of war deployment. 3 objectives, all mostly deployed center field. Same useless warlord trait.
Vulkan
2 x 10 man tax squads rhino and drop pod
5 x scouts
2 x land speeders
tech marine with thunderfire cannon
Went into this game very rusty (only 1 game under my belt with 6th edition rules) and unaware of the 5 turn max at the time.
I went first and he failed to seize initiative. We had night fighting in place. I had everything on the table except for the Penitent Engine which I reserved.
He had everything on his far side of the table except for his scouts who infiltrated into bolstered ruins beside an objective.
Was a bloody matchup. My first turn was uneventful only netting me first blood on the rhino, but his first turn claimed some sisters, the exorcist and the immolator thanks to the speeders and drop pod. I made him pay for this afterwards. By turn 5 all he had left was 4 scouts and his tech marine in a far off ruin which I ignored. I still had Penitent Engine, a squad of sisters and a few seraphims and dominions on the table.
I failed a 3 inch charge on his scouts (rolled snake eyes) in turn 5 with my dominions to pull them away from the objective so shot at them with my sisters rather than run in range of the objective. Big mistake as I couldnt finish the squad of. In his turn 5 he simply moved a scout out of the ruins to claim the objective and get 3 points. This is when I learned there was no possibly turn 6. Had I known, I would have moved sisters rather than shoot, but live and learn.
Highlight of the game was Penitent chasing and burning down Vulkan and 10 tac marines. I wouldnt charge him since Iniative 3 would have meant being insta gibbed and he refused to charge since he was busy chasing down a squad of sister I kept running away from him and out of sight. He eventually killed them, but that Penitent engine got the best of Vulkan and squad with heavy flamers alone. Talk about irony!
Game 2 was against Orcs. Vanguard deployment and Purge the Alien
Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun
Wyrdboy
4 x squads of 30 boys. shootas big shootas and klaw
2 squad of lootas
Dakkajet
Boy did a mission ever get so aptly named. By turn 5 all he did not have anything left on the board. The only thing still alive was the dakkajet, which I ignored and simply flew off. The guy was a great sport about it all considering how bad it went for him.
Highlights were Celestine and squad deep striking in the middle of his forces and not scattering. 1 Shooting phase later, 30 orcs dead. He charges me on his turn with 20ish boys. Celestine challenges and kills the Nob and then I proceed to make 14 armor saves on Seraphims, hit and run and toast that squad as well on my turn.
Penitent Engine also once again shined. He only killed roughly 12 boys. but he made five 6++ saves during that game, three of which from a single Lootas voley. Immolator also made an unnatural amount of smoke launcher saves on the turn it drove up.
Sisters: 11 - everything except dakkajet. First blood, slay warlord and linebreaker
Orcs: 2 - took all he had over 5 turns, but eventually Immolator and Penitent Engine went down.
Game 3 was against Space Marines. The relic and Dawn of War. Warlord trait = scoring unit. Nice for this mission
Librarian - Gate of Infinity. He didnt use other power.
5 x sternguards with mix of weapons
10 x tactical marines. flamer multi melta rhino
5 x scouts
Ironclad in drop pod with beacon
Vindicator
Another bloody game. Celestine and seraphims died in turn 2 as he focused pretty much everything on her to prevent her from getting away with the relic and she unfortunately did not get back until turn 5. By the end of the game he had no troops left, my last troop was engaged with his Ironclad (melta bomb kept failing with 1s on the Pen table) and the relic was untended by Celestine that had to flame a marine to make it drop, but unable to pick it back up.
Sisters: 1 - Firstblood
Marines: 1 - Linebreaker
1 win, 1 tie and 1 loss. First tournament I've been to. Had never played against marines or orcs since my circle of friends don't play them so I am happy with the results given the circumstances.
The guy I tied against won his first two games so he got best general. The orc guy got best sportsman (he had a blast, but lost his 3 games). I got best painted army and best overall for total accumulated scores so I was fairly happy with those results.
Hold on, are you seriously telling me that there's been a sisters of battle post going on for 74 pages and I'm just NOW hearing about this? Man, I really need to go on the Tactics part of this more often...
The main conclusion I drew was that I have now abandoned the Jacobus bomb as it's not as effective as it once was. I usually just import Coteaz and a squad of henchmen with shiny guns to pick up the slack. However, Jacobus or Krynov is still a good choice for a 20 girl sisters blob sitting on an objective. They don't kill much at range but they're fun to camp with.
Celestine got better, as did the Seraphim because of that.
Also, I've been having fun putting 2 Plasma pistols on my BSS superiors and abusing their act of faith to re-roll 1s. It can be fun. I typically place pretty high at my local tournaments 2-4th out of a group of 14-18 people so I feel pretty good about them. They're still mono-build so it gets a little redundant so I often switch over to my Tau. (I'll have an up to date, competitive army eventually...Don't get me started on my Eldar...)
Jancoran wrote: I saw a Battle report where they had 4 motorized Sisters units all Wargeared up, 3 Exorcists, St Celestine and a Seraphim squad.
I thought 4 was one too many Sisters Squads even though it obviously presents a pain in the arse as far as scoring threats go.
Just kind of an interesting build. No Sisters Repentia nor battle conclaves to repel Deep Strikers/rearguard threats et al, No Priests or Confessors of any kind, no dominion, just the one Seraphim unit and no Retributors. About as plain a list as you'll see. He used basically just three units.
Anyways, does anyone here have a build that so many are preferable? With the other elements he has, would you take 4? It's not like they wouldn't do damage. Bolters are bolters, they're pretty good weapons, but only when they are out of the Rhino. And with no way to guarantee preferred enemy for them, which would be a good reason to take them in goodly numbers...?
Just throwing it out there for ideas.
At 1500 im using 3 squads of SOB troops and 3 squads of dominions with 3 exorcists and celestine. I don't like the elite choices in our book, i dont want another HQ unit, and using all of my heavy and fast attack slots already im just forced to take more sister squads or fritter away my points on upgrades which may or may not be useful.
Celtic Strike wrote: Hold on, are you seriously telling me that there's been a sisters of battle post going on for 74 pages and I'm just NOW hearing about this? Man, I really need to go on the Tactics part of this more often...
In all seriousness, I've been wondering where some of the SOB regulars have been in this thread. I just figured they didn't like us.
Welcome to the party, Celtic.
Most folks have abandoned the bomb at this point. The lack of assault transport really killed it. That being said, there are a lot of other good combos for sisters that we have gone over.
Mikhail-Lenin's Nova Sisters/GK/Bastion were great.
I ran Wolf / Sisters very successfully.
Sisters / IG have been pretty popular in a lot of places.
Another tournament in March. 1500 points this time. Should have hopefully plenty of time to get stuff painted and thinking of bringing:
Celestine
2 x 10 Sister squads - Flamer, Multi Melta, Combi Flamer. - I didnt get much use of the melta's on these. Multi however was nice to threaten at range. Once they got charged however, I would love the additional flamer so going to try it this time.
5 Dominions - Meltagun x 2, plasma pistol and Immolator with Multi melta
7 Seraphims - handflamers x 2, plasma pistol and eviscerator.
Exorcist
5 Retributors - Heavy Bolters x 4
Allies:
Coteaz
Servitors x 3 - Heavy bolters x 2 and multimelta
Jokaero
Dreadknight - heavy Incinerator
Bastion with Icarus Lascannon
That gets me with 55 points to spare and not sure what to do with them at this point. I think the list setup is fairly straight forward and should play well on a 4x4 table.
I thought about a teleporter for the knight, but that would need me 20 more points from somewhere and given how small table is I am not sure it will see a lot of use.
I like having Plasma pistols on the Superiors in a BSS, gives the squad 2 plasma shots if they need it. I typically don't need more than 2 Melta shots to kill what they're aiming at. I save heavy targets (Land raiders ect) for Dominions and Exorcists so I save the BSS for tacticals or softer targets. Big hoards I leave to St. Celetsine and her Seraphim.
I think they can be fun but I do see the advantage of having a Combi-flamer on a BSS for back up.
Dominions - unless you expect them to kill one thing and get shot off the board, then a combi melta may be the better option. However, I've been able to get mines to survive for several turns in the games I've played. In each of those games I've had them destroy a nasty vehicle (vindicator for example) and twin linking two meltaguns is almost certain to get the job done where an additional one gets redundant. I've used my Immolator to shelter them from fire and the next turn I start laying down the pain around on marines or terminators. A combi melta would be useless after the first shot where the plasma pistol keeps on giving and once again, with their act of faith, you are quite safe from gets hot.
Seraphim - Quite simply sniping. They have the mobility to move where you want them, on a side where it may be easy to snipe a character/special weapon by forcing him to take an AP 2 wounds bypassing all other models that could take the hit. They get stuck in assault, hit and run out in your opponents phase and position yourself again for sniping in his phase. Been able to kill specific weapons that he thought would be hidden at the back. Was able to hit and run behind an IronClad dreadnought in one phase and remove his arm that had the heavy flamer attached. Did not kill it, but made it that much easier to deal with on the charge.
Servitors - Faced a list that had a drop pop with locator beacon, a librarian with gate and a bunch of sternguard loaded with meltas and flamers. If the drop pod comes down, the sternguards port in right by your bastion with no scatter and then do mince meat of it. If I have a multi melta at least, Im nearly guaranteed that this drop pod is not going to survive it's arrival. Jokaero can get multimeltas, but I would rather have too many than not enough in this situation. With spare points I can see myself getting another jokaero potentially. if I can get the 12inch increase from their ability, thats an extra 36 inch multimelta and on a 4x4 table, it will basically reach anywhere depending on where bastion is.
As for teleporter, if I played on a 4x6 table it would be a no brainer, but starting on the 12 inch mark and moving 6 inches every turn and shooting, he can likely get anywhere I need him and I mostly want him to drawn fire away from squishier targets.
Voldrak wrote: Servitors - Faced a list that had a drop pop with locator beacon, a librarian with gate and a bunch of sternguard loaded with meltas and flamers. If the drop pod comes down, the sternguards port in right by your bastion with no scatter and then do mince meat of it.
I do have a force of Imperial guards I have been building to work as allies (Commissar Lord or Primaris Psycher, 1 infantry squad with roughly 40 guardsmen and a manticore), but I am set on testing Coteaz and divination right now and finding out how this fares.
I would however most likely use the aegis line with guards however.
I've been planning on an platoon command squad with sniper rifles in cover and having 4 infantry squad with autocannons or lascannons. Lord Commissar would likely man the quad gun while being joined to a squad of his own... but that is way down the road as I only have 1 of the 4 infantry squads painted at this time. Converted from flagellants and cadians to give them a Zealot look.
Yeah Celestine and Jacobus would be decent at higher levels.
Already have the model and a 40 man blob with heavy weapons having feel no pain would definately be annoying to remove.
You get plenty of sergeants to throw into challenges as well if you ever get assaulted.
Voldrak wrote: Another tournament in March. 1500 points this time. Should have hopefully plenty of time to get stuff painted and thinking of bringing:
Celestine
2 x 10 Sister squads - Flamer, Multi Melta, Combi Flamer. - I didnt get much use of the melta's on these. Multi however was nice to threaten at range. Once they got charged however, I would love the additional flamer so going to try it this time.
5 Dominions - Meltagun x 2, plasma pistol and Immolator with Multi melta
7 Seraphims - handflamers x 2, plasma pistol and eviscerator.
Exorcist
5 Retributors - Heavy Bolters x 4
Allies:
Coteaz
Servitors x 3 - Heavy bolters x 2 and multimelta
Jokaero
Dreadknight - heavy Incinerator
Bastion with Icarus Lascannon
That gets me with 55 points to spare and not sure what to do with them at this point. I think the list setup is fairly straight forward and should play well on a 4x4 table.
I thought about a teleporter for the knight, but that would need me 20 more points from somewhere and given how small table is I am not sure it will see a lot of use.
Yesterday I ran a similar list at 1500:
Saint Celestine
10 BSS, MM 10 BSS, F/F, Rhino
8 Seraphim HF/HF, melta bombs
Exorcist
Exorcist
5 Retributors 4HB
Again, I felt that BSS didn't do much and i think ill strip them of the last rhino. They came in from the reserves turn two and helped a bit me to dispatch infiltrated T5 4 lascannon havoc squad (which destroyed my exorcist turn1) and deep striking terminators who destroyed my other exorcist turn 2, but sat on the board edge since turn 3. I made serious mistakes with deployment as you can tell and from now on i think that i'll use these two squads to buddlewrap back of the exorcists / bastion when appropriate. Overall, the game was exciting and ended 4-4 (kill points).
The downside is that the army feels defensive and extremely static so I wouldn't enjoy playing it every game. I think i may switch dreadknight for a cheap variant of storm raven and add some purifiers/paladins/strike squad and see how it goes.
Ugh pre..... I looked at the aenger and I really dont think its worth running. It dies so easy and its not as destructive as other fliers. Its too expensive for what it does IMHO.
while on the topic of measuring things, can someone help me by measuring how tall and wide St. Celestine is supposed to be while on the typical 25mm base?
I'm using the battle sister from the 54mm inquisitor line with wings tacked on as the current model (also doubles as my daemon prince in the chaos list as I have magnetic bases) but I think it may be too big for the actual substitution.
(I'm nearly there with painting of my sacred rose battle sisters, I just need to do the faces now (oh gawd I need helmets >.< (my IG are krieg and steel legion and all my marines wear helmets ) )
thank you! Phew, mine still sorta works. it's 2.7 inches tall so 0.2 inches bigger but her halberd sticks up to 3.6 inchest total so it always looked taller. 2.5 inches wide for me from wing to wing though so it's a bit cumbersome to fit her on a 25mm base but there's 3 points of contact so it's actually pretty stable.
I may just permanently mount her on a 40 mm base though as the old daemon prince was on a 40mm base and it's just better balance though I'll probably end up with a scenic base that will make her 2.8 inches tall.
Think that'd it'd be considered modeling for advantage? I mean it does make it easier to place the flamer seraphrim around her with that compared to the 25mm base but slightly increased chance to deep strike mishap?
She's a pretty small model to put on a 40mm base assuming that you have one. She only came with a 25 mm base when i bought her from GW, is she listed as bulky in a faq or something?
"
This pack contains one Saint Celestine - a finely detailed metal miniature that comes in four components, and is supplied with a 25mm round base. This miniature is supplied unpainted and requires assembly - we recommend using Citadel Super Glue and Citadel Paints."
She had the two bases in the blister package when I bought her myself a few years ago. I originally had the small base glued on top of the larger one to "pedestal" her, but realized that would make her stand above cover even more so removed the larger one.
Weird. Mine came with a large base, but I bought her when she was first released, so I don't know if they changed it. I can't imagine her being on the small one. There's no way that's even close to stable!
There was a time when she's included both bases in the same blister as well. I've got mine on the 40mm, but mine's significantly taller, heavier, and more top-heavy than the standard model too.
Never had issues with balance when on a small base.
I chose the small one most gameplay reason. When you're deep striking in really tight quarters with 7 seraphims around, you want to take as little space as possible Bigger base can also mean more guys in contact with her and focusing on her.
I used a weighted 25mm base. Then again, My Celestine's plumage already has her at a disadvantage.
Nice model.
Also check page... 8.
You don't count weapons (guns/swords), or wings and tails, only the central torso (arms, legs and body) when determining what you can see.
As it specifically states the rules are designed to not penalise players for having awesome models, the way I read it is, this will carry over to determining Cover too.
For proxying Avenger strike fighters has any one had any success with or looked a the Puppet's War fighters?
The loads out it has should be able to match up with the Avenger with some creative extra modeling on your part and I'm strongly considering it for my ladies. Any one have a source on Immolator gunners? I need a pilot.
So I won't be able to make the Bay Area Open this year but that didn't stop me from thinking about lists. I figured I'd start with my 1500pt list from the Golden Throne GT and then rework it from there.
FAST ATTACK
Dominions - 5 Women, 2 Meltaguns, VSS with Combi-flamer, Immolator with twin-linked Multi-Meltas
Dominions - 5 Women, 2 Meltaguns, VSS with Combi-flamer, Immolator with twin-linked Multi-Meltas
Seraphim - 10 Women, 2 Twin Hand Flamers, VSS with Meltabombs
HEAVY SUPPORT
Exorcist
Retributors - 10 Women, 4 Heavy Bolters
Retributors - 10 Women, 4 Heavy Bolters
FORTIFICATION
Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun
From my experience the biggest weakness of this list is its inability deal with fliers and weak troops choices with poor mobility. There's really nothing from the SoB list that can help with that so allies are the only option. I didn't really want to use IG and the Coteaz henchmen lists that have been so successful don't add much in the Troops dept. I decided to go with a Grey Knights Strike Squad. A 10-man squad with 2 Psycannon and Psybolts is 240pts. Since I had to bring in an HQ as well, I wanted to do Coteaz, but he wouldn't be able to join the squad if they used their Deep Strike ability, so I settled on an Ordo Malleus Inq with TDA, Psycannon, Daemonhammer, Psyker L1.
The Inquisitor will take a Divination power. Prescience is guaranteed and it will make the unit quite effective against fliers. There's also a possibility of getting Forewarning for a 4++ (which will be a 3++ in combat thanks to the Nemesis Swords). The Inquisitor will also be able to shield the unit from some small arms fire with his 2+. Altogether that unit can put out 8 to 12 Psycannon rounds and 16 Psybolter shots. It's a scoring Ld 10 unit that, can twin-link (Prescience), and has Force Weapons, Hammerhand, Warp Quake, and can Deep Strike if need be. I had to drop the Aegis Line to get the points, but the Knights should be much stronger against fliers than the Quad Gun.
I Wish I Was Going To The Bay Area Open 1750 pts HQ St. Celestine
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor - TDA, Psycannon, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Psyker L1
FAST ATTACK
Dominions - 5 Women, 2 Meltaguns, VSS with Combi-flamer, Immolator with twin-linked Multi-Meltas
Dominions - 5 Women, 2 Meltaguns, VSS with Combi-flamer, Immolator with twin-linked Multi-Meltas
Seraphim - 10 Women, 2 Twin Hand Flamers, VSS with Meltabombs
HEAVY SUPPORT
Exorcist
Retributors - 10 Women, 4 Heavy Bolters
Retributors - 10 Women, 4 Heavy Bolters
Has anyone been using Strikes as allies? How have they worked out? Hopefully I can get a few games in with some of the locals who are going to the BAO and see how it fares.
Can be given a variety of different bombs and missiles or extra multi lasers, las cannons or auto-cannons.
Armour 12.
All for the cost of Saint Celestine and a Rhino. Pretty great stuff.
Yeah, its firepower is pretty good.
But the downside is the low side armour and only 2 HP. It tends to crash and burn under fire real quick. I usually hope it turns up after turn 3 so that I've had at least a chance of killing the enemy's anti-tank fire.
Amerikon wrote: So I won't be able to make the Bay Area Open this year but that didn't stop me from thinking about lists.
Sorry to hear that. I just bought a ticket, so I might be going.
I had to drop the Aegis Line to get the points, but the Knights should be much stronger against fliers than the Quad Gun.
Psycannons are only 24" and even with Prescience, it's really difficult to hit flyers. At least the Aegis Defense Line provides longer and more reliable anti-air with the added benefit of cover saves for your Retributors and static scoring elements.
Not I. But mine came with a 40mm base so I don't understand where the issue of the smaller base would come in?
I have had mine for a long time though while never actually using her for most of that time (til the new codex). So maybe it was a change at some point.
Any of you fine folks headed to NOVA this year? I'm going to be looking to pick your brains for some list tweaking in the upcoming weeks/months.
What new codices are anticipated between now and August? Daemons and Tau?
I'm still torn between running Sisters and Guard or Sisters and GK. What answers do we have for helldrakes and blastmaster spam? The surge of AP3 ignore cover templates has me running back to the safety of my metal boxes, but I'm already feeling the pain of finding points for rhinos again.
Heldrake and BlastMaster spam is gonna be pretty awesome.
Tau has been a rumor for YEARS. UNLESS someone shows me the codex, Im not going to beleive it.
Daemons got a White Dwarf treatment meaning they probably aren't next.
the logical choices would be a Xeno since they just did Dark Angels. Orcs, Tyranids, and Eldar would top my list of probabilities, in that order, but that is pure supposition and in no way a qualified opinion.
Orcs are a way off I think.
From what I've seen rumour wise, Tau or Eldar are next.
But yeah, Tau have been 'on the cards' for years, I was told not to start Tau in Oct 2011 because they were 'going to be redone in a few months'. So I agree, when I've got the new book in my hand, THEN I'll believe it.. and maybe not even then.
So I have my first match with my Sisters tomorrow against a friend in a "wrung what you brung" game where I'm still working on refining and expanding my Sisters:
1494pts
HQ Saint Celestine
Elites Repentia Squad (9x Repentia)
Troops Battle Sister Squad(9x sisters) 2x Flamers
Battle Sister Squad 13x Battle Sister - 2xSB
Battle Sister Squad(9x sisters) 2x Flamers
Fast Attack Dominion Squad (5x sisters), 2x MG Immolator w/ MM
Seraphim Squad 7x Seraphim , 2x HF, BP/PS
Heavy Support Exorcist
Penitent Engine
Retributor Squad - 4x HB, Rhino, Simulacrum Imperialis, PP (Rhino given to Repentia)
I'd rather trim the 13 sister squad down to 10 and expand the rets a bit to get extra wounds. Otherwise the first casualty means you lose an important model.
Amerikon wrote: So I won't be able to make the Bay Area Open this year but that didn't stop me from thinking about lists.
Sorry to hear that. I just bought a ticket, so I might be going.
It's cool. I've got a baby now, so it's not for some lame reason like work. If they do the Golden Throne again this year, he might be old enough by then that I won't feel like a bum taking two days to play with my toys.
I had to drop the Aegis Line to get the points, but the Knights should be much stronger against fliers than the Quad Gun.
Psycannons are only 24" and even with Prescience, it's really difficult to hit flyers. At least the Aegis Defense Line provides longer and more reliable anti-air with the added benefit of cover saves for your Retributors and static scoring elements.
I've been really unimpressed with my Quad Gun so far. I think it maybe scratched the paint on a flyer once. It's a really big target and it usually doesn't last very long. If I pare down the Retributor squads to 5 women each, I can afford to put the Quad Gun back. Similarly, if I drop the Strike Squad down to 5 men, I could fit it in as well. I'm not really too happy about either of those things though. It may be worth it to free up 50 points for just the ADL itself. I don't know. Some playtesting would help figure that out.
Just out of curiosity I ran the numbers for Psycannons vs the Quad Gun shooting at flyers. They're both S7 AP4 so hits are what count.
Here's a lot of numbers:
Spoiler:
The full squad with 3 Psycannons will get either 8, 10, or 12 shots.
(The format is the probability of a given outcome. P(3) would be the probability of exactly 3 hits, P(3+) would be the probability of 3 or more hits)
ADL Quad Gun, 4 shots, twin-linked P(0) = 0.000152
P(1+) = 0.999848
P(2+) = 0.994970
P(3+) = 0.936443
P(4) = 0.624295
TL/DR: The "full monty" of 12 twin-linked Psycannon shots are almost as good vs flyers as the Quad Gun. If the flyer is AV11 then the Psybolters can be used, which would make the unit significantly more effective. They're still not as effective as I thought they would be before I crunched the numbers. That said, even if the squad is similarly useful vs flyers as a Quad Gun, it adds so much other extra stuff it might be worth it.
It's a shame that IG Primaris Psykers can't use Divination, as it would be pretty nice to be able to put Prescience on my Retributors.
Has anyone tried an alpha-strike type list with Sisters? I generally tend to favor a much more aggressive playstyle, and am curious if something like this would work (1850pts):
Heavy Support Exorcist
Exorcist
Dreadknight -- Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword, Personal Teleporter
I know it is *very* contingent upon going first, but what alpha strike isn't? Coteaz helps with seizing, and absolute worst case the dominions are still a disruptive threat when outflanking. Dominions scout forward then unleash hell, DK shunts turn 1 to add pressure, while the GK and Sisters advance up into the middle and get to play clean up. Celestine advances on her lonesome behind the Dominion rush and either joins a unit to pass on fearless and improve their faith check, or she goes character hunting. The list has no explicit answer for fliers, but crippling what is on the ground may as well be an answer. Right now I am not worrying about only have 3 scoring units when I will have so many units actively contesting and targeting their troops...should I be?
What would you tweak to the "alpha strike" or "in your face" approach?
IMO, it's not really all that much different that a typical SoB list. I think even if you don't go first you can still get a similar effect. You can hide the NDK until your Dominions come in from reserve and then shunt.
Coteaz is tricky. I don't remember what his other special rules are, but he pretty much has to be with the Strikes to get any benefit from "I've Been Expecting You". Similarly, he's got no invulnerable save so again, he has to join the Strikes to not be sniped. What psychic powers do you want him to use?
Battle report... sorta:
Sisters vs. Vanilla Marines
1500 points
My list is above, his list was two combat squadded groups of tactical Marines spread across four razorbacks all armed with heavy bolters, a predator with AC and HB sponsons, and lead by a chaplain with vanguard veterans on foot (I think it's vanguard, the elite assault marines)
Game type: Relic
Deployment: Dawn of War
Final score:
SM: 5 kill points, possession of the relic
Sisters: 3 kill points including slay the warlord
Things I learned:
Exorcists are terrifyingly good
Bubble wrapping Retributors with extra bodies in the squad is a very good plan.
Remember faith management.
Increase squad level anti-tank
St. Celestine is nigh invincible with half way decent rolls
-Repentia are scary, but fragile and failing their act of faith can make for a bad week.
Questions I still have:
-Is shield of faith an actual act of faith? Or can I just use that invulnerable roll at any time?
-Opponent believed Seraphim pistols counted as twin linking instead of double bolt pistols. I'm pretty sure he was wrong, what's the word there?
I would add the "with halfway decent rolls" caveat to this as well. Also, your opponent's list seemed a bit short on long range anti-tank so that probably helped them out a bit. They're usually very high priority targets which is why I've been moving over to Retributors more and more.
Bubble wrapping Retributors with extra bodies in the squad is a very good plan.
Yep. They'll take some punishment before you start to lose any of your HBs and in the few cases where you get to use them, 6 rending bolters can be pretty nasty too.
-Opponent believed Seraphim pistols counted as twin linking instead of double bolt pistols. I'm pretty sure he was wrong, what's the word there?
Your opponent is wrong. Two pistols = two shots, not twin-linked. If it was twin-linked the hand flamers would be pretty lousy since they'd already get the re-roll to wound that the Seras' act of faith brings.
Amerikon wrote: IMO, it's not really all that much different that a typical SoB list. I think even if you don't go first you can still get a similar effect. You can hide the NDK until your Dominions come in from reserve and then shunt.
Coteaz is tricky. I don't remember what his other special rules are, but he pretty much has to be with the Strikes to get any benefit from "I've Been Expecting You". Similarly, he's got no invulnerable save so again, he has to join the Strikes to not be sniped. What psychic powers do you want him to use?
Misfortune or Perfect Timing are the ideal powers for Coteaz... and given NOVA is going to use mysterious objectives I think Scryer's Gaze could be handy as well (I think it affects mysterious objective rolls, please correct me if I'm wrong). The 4++ to a squad would not be horrible for the GKSS either... so really, most of the DIV powers work out nicely.
Give the transition from mech to foot, I'm not sure if I should run 2 meltagun Dom squads, or 1 melta-gun squad and 1 flamer squad. I could also break-up the 10 girl Dom squad into another 5 girl squad and use the points for some henchmen (for a 4th troop choice). Something like, 3 MM Immolators, 2x 2 flamer squads, 1x 2 meltagun squad... is the 10 strong unit of Dominions going to consistently be overkill?
Also in 5th, I ran a 10 woman Dominion squad with 3 meltas, 1 flamer, and a combi-plasma. I found that configuration to be strong against pretty much everything except maybe the hordiest of hordes.
That particular configuration really wants to twin-link successfully, so a Simulacrum is useful, but that ups the points cost.
Yeah, I was trying my best to figure out a way to get Kyrinov into the 10 girl squad for fearless and the re-rollable 3+ faith check. At one point he was running in one of the Immolators, then switching squads with the disembarkation move, but it really hampers my ability to spread out - not to mention it makes an already suicidey squad that much more expensive.
I should really just do the math on it... but do you guys think 10 Seraphim with Celestine is a better option than the 10 dominions? I lose the scout move, which takes away a bit of the alpha-strike... is 2 dominions and the DK enough to keep my opponent busy until the seraphim show up the next turn, or should I stick to just running 3 doms?
Deep Striking is safer now than it was in 5th and with Hammer and Anvil deployments it's possible that you'll have to cover a ton of ground to get to an objective or a pesky unit. You just have to pick your landing site carefully. A well placed Deep Strike can win a game. Of course the downside is that if you do mishap, you have a 50% of something very bad happening, and IIRC "Terrible accident!" is pretty much the only thing that Celestine can't come back from.
I'd say, be careful when you Deep Strike them, and don't do it unless you have a good reason.
Deep Striking is safer now than it was in 5th and with Hammer and Anvil deployments it's possible that you'll have to cover a ton of ground to get to an objective or a pesky unit. You just have to pick your landing site carefully. A well placed Deep Strike can win a game. Of course the downside is that if you do mishap, you have a 50% of something very bad happening, and IIRC "Terrible accident!" is pretty much the only thing that Celestine can't come back from.
I'd say, be careful when you Deep Strike them, and don't do it unless you have a good reason.
Except you want them to shoot at Celestine while crossing open ground. Time she's off the board is time she isn't absorbing shots and dying.
As long as you place Celestine as the first model for deep strike, she's still on the board when she's removed as a casualty so can still get back up, btw.
I agree that deep-striking is bad. Half the time you have night-fight anyway and so can advance in turn 1 in relative safety (behind cover with Stealth/Shrouded). Gambling on a turn 2 no-scatter deepstrike is just asking to get shafted.
Except you want them to shoot at Celestine while crossing open ground. Time she's off the board is time she isn't absorbing shots and dying.
True. I suppose it comes down to what you want Celestine to do. I like to use her as a "Seraphim Enhancer" and if she's bullet catching then she's either going to die leaving your Seras "unenhanced" or you're going to lose a lot of Seras trying to keep her alive. Both units need each other to be maximally effective. But, if her priority 1 mission is bullet catcher then yeah "never Deep Strike" makes sense. I wouldn't consider that her most important function though.
As long as you place Celestine as the first model for deep strike, she's still on the board when she's removed as a casualty so can still get back up, btw.
Does that actually work? It seems a bit shady. That said, if you do that and your DS works, you can't use Celestine's HF and you can't use LOS! to help keep everyone alive.
Except you want them to shoot at Celestine while crossing open ground. Time she's off the board is time she isn't absorbing shots and dying.
True. I suppose it comes down to what you want Celestine to do. I like to use her as a "Seraphim Enhancer" and if she's bullet catching then she's either going to die leaving your Seras "unenhanced" or you're going to lose a lot of Seras trying to keep her alive. Both units need each other to be maximally effective. But, if her priority 1 mission is bullet catcher then yeah "never Deep Strike" makes sense. I wouldn't consider that her most important function though.
They are not mutually exclusive. Keep in mind that if Celestine falls, she gets back up and she can absorb a lot of fire from the Seraphim. If they start shooting Str 6+ at her, start laughing because those are shots that aren't going into your mech.
As long as you place Celestine as the first model for deep strike, she's still on the board when she's removed as a casualty so can still get back up, btw.
Does that actually work? It seems a bit shady. That said, if you do that and your DS works, you can't use Celestine's HF and you can't use LOS! to help keep everyone alive.
Shandara wrote: I agree that deep-striking is bad. Half the time you have night-fight anyway and so can advance in turn 1 in relative safety (behind cover with Stealth/Shrouded). Gambling on a turn 2 no-scatter deepstrike is just asking to get shafted.
If you expect a turn 2 no-scatter result when you Deep Strike something you're setting yourself up for failure. Also, the likelihood that you'll mishap is pretty low if you pick a good landing spot.
Let's play with numbers:
You've got a 1/3 chance of hitting outright. (So 2/3 of your DSs scatter.)
Unless you're desperate, place your unit somewhere such that most of the possible scatter directions will not result in a mishap. (< 50% of scatter directions are "bad".)
We can premeasure now, so if you put your unit 7+" away from the target unit, even scattering towards them will cause a mishap less than half the time. (5/12 of the possible 2d6 results are > 7)
So even a risky strike with 50% bad scatter directions will result in a mishap (2/3 * 1/2 * 5/12) or about 14% of the time. Of those mishaps, half of them will put your unit back into reserves to DS again next turn. So one in every 20 Deep Strikes will result in a "opponent's choice" and one in every 40 will cause your unit to be destroyed.
pretre wrote: 10 Doms with 4 flamers and a combi-flamer rip everything apart. I also ran 2 melta/2 flamer/Combi-flamer and that was a nice squad (in 5th).
I was poo poo'd roundly at one point long ago on this thread for recommending full on Dominions squads, but I can assure you, full squads are worth worth worth it. I am in full agreement with Pretre. They're quite good. And Heldrakes like them because they are crunchy in milk and are a bit sweeter than Marines.
I dont honestly recall who said what. All I can say for sure is, they have done nothing but perform.
The added padding allows them to REALLY impose damage on the enemy and from a source that isn't scoring from a direction they cant really devote enough energy or else they are ALL the enemy can spend energy on which is kind of fine also, depending on the mission (I covered that before).
The root of my satisfaction ith them comes from the fact that they DONT lose combats by large margins. So while they are no Herculese, whatever they hit isn't strong enough to overpower 10 of them like would be the case otherwise. And that makes the enemy have to retreat one unit and bring a second unit in IF they want a shot at it. but the geometry maty make that such a 50/50% proposition that they may well just shoot rather than assault and for the price, the Sisters take shooting well. Even a couple survivors promises trouble for the opponent so they really NEED to finish that unit, so they just take a LOT more attention than if only two or three units of shooting were necessary. The Shield of Faith is an X Factor too.
I REALLy want to see Sisters of Battle pown some face this tournament season. I think we need a fresh thread for reporting tourney victories (or records?) to increase awareness of how cool they are. A winning percentage would do more for us than seeing if a Sisters of Battle PLayer ends in the top 5. So much goes into the scoring that has nothing to do with wins.
Rending adds +d3 to your strength so even a bolter could pen a rhino with rending.
As for deepstriking Celestine its a matter of preference and what you're fighting.
If Im fighting marines, i'll run her up. She's likely to meet them up midfield and they don't have weight of fire to seriously harm her and the seraphims.
Fight imperial guards with autocannons, eldars with lots of warwalkers or even orcs with lots of lootas and shoota boys.. I'm deep striking.
She and her crew won't last against the weight of fire coming at them. You're also playing your opponents game. He knows you're moving her up and he will take her down. If she deep strikes, he has to keep planning for her and that gets him playing your game.
While there's a risk she might not come in early, that's not always bad. It gives time for the person that you are playing against to reveal their cards. If they're focusing on an objective and leaving something weaker guarding another objective, you might decide to drop in a much better position than you would have two turns earlier. It's also a fairly easy Line Breaker point if you need it as well.
Scattering is always a risk, but it's still worth it I say. Maybe she might not get to shoot that turn due to a bad landing and she will be shot that... if they had been running up, thats also basically what would have likely happened for two turns straight before she engaged anything.
I honestly am least scared about my Sisters fighting with helldrakes. Of all the MEQ units out there, we are easily the best equipped to deal with them (without psychic powers or wargear) due to our global 6++. Given they wound our T3 as easily as a marine's T4... that invul save can be clutch.
I've also only ever DS'd Celestine once, against Tau. Results were mediocre, showed up weathered one turn of fire instead of 3 and roasted a ton of space-fish. Only problem was I am great at rolling for reserves and they showed up promptly on turn 4.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alright... subtle tweaks to get a unit of Seraphim in there (and because I think 2 melta-squads are overkill)
Heavy Support Exorcist
Exorcist
Dreadknight -- Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword, Personal Teleporter
Alternatively I could turn both BSSMMs into heavy bolters and give the 10 strong dominion squad a combi-plasma (I wouldn't do melta as I don't think I should ever be shooting them at a tank given they have 4 flamers and plasma gives them 2 shots to try and kill any pesky 2+ saves up front)... but I think I like where I have ended up. Exorcists, melta gals, and MM Immolator pop open whatever transports there are (or the MM immo goes bastion/manticore hunting) so that the flamer doms and the DK can roast stuff turn 1. Seraphim follow quickly behind, and the GKSS is right there to clean-up whatever is left. BSS hang back to hold objectives and initially bubble-wrap the Exorcists to give them 5+ cover as the ladies advance to midfield (if the Exos even need it). After the Dom's rhino has dropped them off... on the off-chance it lives it can either tank shock to clump things up for the Doms, or scoot back and pick-up one of the BSS squads.
Thoughts? I cannot wait to get a game in this Sunday
pretre wrote: 0 out of every 0 on board deployments result in mishap.
Fair enough, and if you never leave your house you've got a 0 chance of being hit by a bus, right?
Exactly!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Voldrak wrote: Fight imperial guards with autocannons, eldars with lots of warwalkers or even orcs with lots of lootas and shoota boys.. I'm deep striking.
This is exactly the time you want her on the board. With her 2+ and the girl's 3+, you love all those weak AP shots coming at you. They aren't going at your vehicles.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @quiestdeus: What was the points level because that looks nasty...
@quiestdeus: What was the points level because that looks nasty...
Heh, I agree -- point value is 1850. Going to give it a whirl for a couple of battles and see what it does. The only thing I am a little worried about is a DE beast pack deathstar as I'm not sure 4 TL flamers will do enough damage, but I suppose time will tell!
I just recently took on the DE Beast Pack Deathstar with my list and no the flamers arent enough. You have to do 5 wounds to even kill one and they can run 50+ wounds.
Best bet is any Str 6 you can unload into them.
I just Tarpitted them with an IG squad lead by St. Celestine
They real key for beating DE is to take out all their fast vehicles. For that i would favor Heavy Bolters over the Meltas or Flamers on your Dominion squads,
Yeah, Exorcists LOVE to shoot at venoms, raiders, and ravagers. I totally forgot about the DK's incinerator... so with a solid shunt I should be able to fry quite a few razorwing flocks
Although it's a risky to take desperate allies I'm take sisters of battle as allies for my eldar troops.( because what else am i gonna use? My chaos daemons? HAH)
So i got
Avatar
x5 DA Wave serpent
Starcannon
x5 DA Wave serpent
Starcannon
x5 DA Wave serpent
Starcannon
x5 DA Wave serpent
Starcannon
Wraithlord
Sword
Starcannon
Allies
Saint Celestine
x10 SOB
x2 melta
Rhino
x10 SOB
x2 melta
Rhino
All right first the biggest problem, the sisters of battle are not scoring(desperate allies) and i need to keep them at least 6" away so i don't incur one eye open, so i treat them like a wraithlord without a farseer but I want them farther away.
Since my main army is mostly troops im not lacking in scoring units, my wraithlord and Avatar can handle high AV values my plethora of starcannons will reap through MEQ's and if necessary i can deploy DA for some shooting but i want this kept at a minimum. The wave serpents will mostly dance behind or around or provide screening for the MC's.
This is where the sisters come in, because of their DA status they are completely expendable, they have more of what i need, mobility, lots of anti GEQ shooting(compared to what my DA provide and their status as scoring discourages me from using them for such use much), they have anti MEQ weaponry and can tear up nasty vehicles. Saint Celestine does what she does best at tying things up and generally being awesome, and since I want them to be at least 6" away from the eldar im encourage to use them in another area that I can't get to or don't want to engage with my eldar since they are the softer targets.
If i get into any assaults i dont want to I'm pretty much dead unless the wraithlord, avatar or celestine are near by to save me. Also im taking a gamble on the wraithlord by not bringing a farseer.
There might be better choices than sisters of battle but I am using what is available to me.
I would even use them the other way around and bring in the avatar a wraithlord and 2 wave serpents with DA as allies with a sister army using celestine, x3 sister squads, 3 exorcists and whatever is leftover with dominions.
It isn't exactly expected but I can't rely on that completely to carry the day but it gives sisters even more anti MEQ although i am paying a premium for it since starcannons are expensive it gives a little more oomph where it needs to be on squads targetted by sister squad bolters and melta guns I can clean up from 36" inches.
I have a lot of fun with it, wondering if any else (if you have the models for it) would ever try out a very unlikely alliance for sisters.
I've heard very good things about SOB/gk but it isn't the oddest coupling. and probably performs more reliably than SOB/eldar
I didn't mean to be overly negative here, but from a competitive standpoint, that is a pretty soft list.
- Your anti-tank is limited to the meltas in the Sisters squads and is 12".
- Your anti-horde is DA, who are only 5 guys each and have too few shots to do anything, not to mention they will die after they fire since there are only 5 and not a lot of targets.
- You have an Avatar, but no foot troops for Eldar.
- You have starcannons, which have been pretty horrible since 3rd edition.
- You took Celestine (good) and then two SOB squads (bad) as allies. The only thing they are good for is holding objectives, which you can't do in this list. If taking sister allies at least get one sob and then take dominions or Rets or something for your second. They are better in every way.
- Your scoring is in vehicles which are pretty fragile and is only 20 guys, most of which will die when their transports explode.
If you fight a jump pack list or foot MEQ, you might do okay. Against anything else, you will get ripped apart. Most opponents will just shoot down your wave serpents, ignore your sisters and call it a day.
Alrighty! I did not take any photos, but played a practice NOVA game this weekend (4 objectives, one in each corner, modified hammer and anvil deployment). My opponent was playing pure DA, had Azrael, a libby, a 5 man DW unit, a 10 man DW unit, a tac squad, 3 bikes with melta, a MM attack bike, a ravenwing knight squad, and a dark shroud.
He took a huge risk and decided to try and outflank the bikes (Ravenwing, Knights, and Attack bike) rather than scout toward me and DWA the large terminator block. I basically used one sister squad to line the edge of my board near my deployment and deny him any sneaky outflank moves. I deployed the other sister squad wrapping the Exorcists a bit to try and give them a cover save, but really just to prevent anything from being able to get into melta range. DK and Seraphim setup center of the board, while the GKs and Coteaz setup just north of them. Coteaz ended up with Scrier's Gaze (and Prescience) so I opt'd to outflank both dominion squads since I could basically choose when and where I wanted them to appear.
He killed 4 GKs T1, but that was about it. My T1 my GKs popped warp quake (10 scary terminators!) and their returned fire killed all 5 terminators, the DK shunted and burned a couple of tac marines, and the seraphim moved up. His turn 2 was more horribleness, only his DWA and attack bike came on. His 10-strong terminator unit scatter 8 inches and landed too close to a GK ( ), auto-mishapped, and I got to place the unit in a no-man's land taking them out of the rest of the game ( ). His bike made a suicide run on an exorcist but only managed to glance. Azrael and the Libby (started with the unit of 5 terminators) ended up joining the tac squad, and the entire unit's shooting put one wound on the DK. Bottom of turn 2, I pop scrier's gaze, get both units of dominions on the board... the 4 flamers right near the tac squad, and the dominions behind the attack bike. Melta dom's don't even disembark, and the immolator pops the bike. This unit then tries to take pot-shots and bait the 10-man terminators away from an objective the rest of the game before finally contesting it, so I'll ignore it here on out. The flamer doms disembark, pass their faith check and put 25 wounds on the tac squad. Turns out Azrael is closest... and my opponent procceeds to make 22 2+ saves. I now [almost] know what it is like to shoot against a seraphim squad and have Celestine laugh it off. Yeesh The DK shoots the tac squad too, kills 1, and then assaults it.
Turn 3 the rest of his army (bike squad, Knights, darkshroud) all come on... but things are pretty much over at this point. He cannot kill my troops (he gets 1 sister squad, and leaves me with just 3 GKs) before I kill all of his reinforcements so the game is pretty much over.
Random notes:
Azrael, the librarian (with force staff), and the tactical squad basically tied up the DK the rest of the game. I severely underestimated Azrael's 4++ to the squad... only managing to kill 1 or 2 marines a turn is not fast enough, even if they were not fearless I probably would have still been stuck there for a while. I charged in with the dominions the turn after to try and speed things up and they did not help at all I believe 6 Doms were killed, they did 1 wound (which was saved) in return, and promptly broke and ran out of the combat
Sisters outside of a rhino ARE SO SQUISHY. I knew it before when I made the list, but to finally play with foot sisters and see how quickly those ladies laid down to fire from just 6 bikes... egads. Power armor isn't bad, but it is not the end-all be-all... which leads into my main concern... I really think I need another troops choice. I will play a few more games, but if my opponent had been able to kill those last 3 GKs (or the 10 strong sister squad) that game very likely would have just been a draw.
Ah Beastmasters make me smile. I love those fellas. A lot.
Allied Manticore might do the trick. Collossus will ignore cover so you could throw one in instead. Beastmasters don't like Manticores. Cover negating large blasts are no fun either at AP 3.
pretre wrote: I didn't mean to be overly negative here, but from a competitive standpoint, that is a pretty soft list.
- Your anti-tank is limited to the meltas in the Sisters squads and is 12".
- Your anti-horde is DA, who are only 5 guys each and have too few shots to do anything, not to mention they will die after they fire since there are only 5 and not a lot of targets.
- You have an Avatar, but no foot troops for Eldar.
- You have starcannons, which have been pretty horrible since 3rd edition.
- You took Celestine (good) and then two SOB squads (bad) as allies. The only thing they are good for is holding objectives, which you can't do in this list. If taking sister allies at least get one sob and then take dominions or Rets or something for your second. They are better in every way.
- Your scoring is in vehicles which are pretty fragile and is only 20 guys, most of which will die when their transports explode.
If you fight a jump pack list or foot MEQ, you might do okay. Against anything else, you will get ripped apart. Most opponents will just shoot down your wave serpents, ignore your sisters and call it a day.
Not at all, i appreciate the criticism and feedback on it, I've only ever played in a friendly setting and never at any tournaments or stores. I play with what's available/ what i like which tends to be the same thing so I don't have the competitive experience to really know what would be required.
My Dire avengers really aren't meant to be used at all to be honest, although that in of itself is stupid to buy something and then not use it, i forget in this edition you can't control or contest objectives from inside vehicles anymore. The sister's were intended to flesh out both roles depending on what they ran across. Although I could specialize out a seperate unit with flamers for that purpose i much rather prefer meltaguns, they feel solid to me and I have not had any issues with horde armies in the past, then again they were not competitively minded.
An avatar is out of place in a mechanized list but i prefer to take him when im not running a wraith heavy army, since i only had one wraithlord i didnt want to buy a farseer just to babysit him, but I could have also bought a farseer for physic defense and fortune as well, the avatar although threatening is very slow and will probably get easily isolated from the rest of my army.
Starcannons I just love, i know they are expensive but their weapon stats make my heart race and are the only weapon I trust on the wave serpent platform, the single shot weapons are too expensive in my mind and scatter laser I absolutely detest from bad experiences against grey knight (which wasn't a good idea in the first place being GREY KNIGHTS). So my assessment on them is horrendously biased but I cannot bring myself to use the other weapons on it, if only it wasn't so expensive.... especially since im paying for a 5 man troop choice and a 90 point
vechile on top of the weapon.
Peace friend's i wont turn this into a eldar tatica,
:/ at this rate black templars will get a new codex before sisters......
Well Dervos, Do some small things to the list first.
Change one of the Sisters of Battle over to a full Dominion Squad with 4 flamers. This instantly adds an enormously useful Scout/Outflanking ability to the army, and pretty much the same models you alredy had. 5 troops is plenty. If needed you can drop the sword on the Wraithlord to do it, and possibly downgrade one weapon on a Wave Serpent..
Dominions are no joke. They make everyone cry. They might even forget about the DA for a moment while they concentrate on that. if you go first. Awesome. If you go second, outflank. Either way, its a good time.
Jancoran wrote:Ah Beastmasters make me smile. I love those fellas. A lot.
Allied Manticore might do the trick. Collossus will ignore cover so you could throw one in instead. Beastmasters don't like Manticores. Cover negating large blasts are no fun either at AP 3.
It's a thought.
I have not tried a Colossus so that definitely could help, but you would be surprised how little a manticore does when they have 2+ cover from invisibility and hugging area terrain. If the barrage rolls well and kills 3 or 4 flocks then you're all set, but if you roll poorly and kill 1 (or none) then you're in for a world of hurt.
Not sure your plan here pretre... they can readily throw away a beastmaster (like a guard SGT) while Vect keeps the unit fearless... then everything just munches whatever was escorting Celestine. If Celey was alone to just tie them up, most builds can hit and run out of combat and assault whatever they really wanted to in the first place.
@Tyrs13 - My current approach (and the one I have had the best luck with) has been to abuse the fact that have to string the unit out to keep Vect in coherency. The DK has been a lifesaver - if they leave a bunch of flocks in the "open" I can shunt next to them and instant-death at least 3, often more. If they do a good job of bubble-wrapping by placing the BM and Khymeras well I honestly just tend to ignore the unit and run away while trying to kill their troops. DK and Seraphim are GREAT for troop hunting, and I suspect I may be able to start leaving the Seraphim back to play with the beasts while the 4-flamer Doms outflank to kill his troops. I have also toyed with the idea of bringing in a Vindicare to deal with Vect... but I do not think it is practical. I would also highly recommend keeping at least 1 of your troops in reserve, if only to allow you to put them on whichever side of the board the unit does not head for, to buy it an extra turn.
Yeah, my perspective is definitely from SoB/GK... if I was running guard I'd have no idea what I would do -- probably what Jancoran said and hope the die are in your favor!
Tyrs13 wrote: Not just a normal Beast Master List ... they use the one with vec and baron ... then throw in Eldrad as a ally for invis.
Oh, so we're talking about 2/3 of their army in one unit. Fair enough. Same thing really, just focus fire. Invis doesn't help when you drop enough templates on them. Celestine and Seraphim can choose their approach so as to target the models they want and not just soak attacks into Vect. It isn't easy, but defeating a 1000+ point combo never is.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, as my opponent this weekend found out, the beastmaster/Baron/Eldrad combo is very reliant on luck. No invis during rolling and Baron eating a krak missle put that paid pretty quick.
Shandara wrote: One of my opponents is cursed that way, rolling a 1 for his first shadowfield save a few times now.
Although I don't think that is a strategy for defeating them, I do think it is bad to have a list that relies on a single deathstar or unit because if it fails you are SOL.
I'm okay with people thinking that way, so long as they pick up their models when it's time, preferably by the handful 3 times a game. That's all I ask for.
I look at my own Sisters of Battle list and think: would this list which has done nothing BUT win like to see THAT across the table? If the answer is no, it's probably worth looking into and respecting deeply.
From the Sisters side of the table, Outflanking makes a lot of sense against a force that uses Dark Reapers. For that to work well, the enemy would have to have them on the flanks. If they aren't on the flanks, it leaves those valuable units awfully exposed to anti-Rhino fire and if the Rhino can't hold up... ouch. that barrage from Two Dark Reaper units and/or my D-Cannnons (if it became necessary) will ruin their whole day. So in the grand scheme, well deployed Dark Reapers are always going to top my list for some of the bnetter units in the game. I certainly do not want to get hit with it.
I'm planning a sisters army, and I'm very excited. The way I see it though, I really should get some allies. Looking at what's missing in my sisters, I feel like they would benefit most from a) more long range shooting or b) some rock hard infantry that can take objectives. Any suggestions? I've never taken allies, and the only other army I have is chaos. I hate buying lots of guys, so I'd hope to get this right (nearly) the first time. I'm all ears.
Any of the marine chapters can do very well if you are looking for objective takers and long range. Space Wolves do particularly well in this regard.
Something like:
- Rune Priest and/or Wolf Priest
- 1-2 Grey Hunter Squads in Vehicles (optional with Wolf Priest)
- 1 Long Fang Squad
- Something choppy if you have the points (Lone Wolf, TWC, Wolf Guard, etc)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Speaking of Guard and Sisters, I am going to defend my title at the Guardian Cup next month. Looking for a good army to bring. One of my top choices right now is Sisters and Guard.
1750 -
Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Multimelta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Multimelta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword
Seraphim (5) w/ 2x Hand Flamer, Meltabombs
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors x 5, 4 HB Bastion with Icarus
Primaris Psyker
PCS with 3 Flamers
3 x Infantry with Power Axe, Flamer, Autocannon
Vendetta
Manticore
Tournament has all set objective missions (4 rounds). Kind of up in the air whether to trade the three IS autocannons for 2 Seraphim, but other than that it is pretty solid.
If you don't plan on using the seraphim as a DSing unit I would highly recommend getting them as many ablative wounds as you can (from my experiences at least).
Celestine up front can soak a lot, but 6th has been around for a while now and people have gotten much better with managing their firing lanes to reduce the impact of differing armor saves. I tried to run a 5 girl squad and the unit just gets reduced to ineffectiveness too easily.
You're paying too much for hand flamers to just let the unit end up as Celestine and 1 flamer girl by the time it makes it across the table.
Yeah, I think I would drop the flamers long before the ACs. The magic number for me has been 7 Seraphim.
I would almost drop the flamers and 1 axe for the 2 girls. Jacobus essentially gets you a "free" axe from the other 2 sarges, so you may not even really notice. Or, you could drop the meltagun from the foot sisters and the meltabombs from the seraphim to get the second gal.
Question: Why the primaris over a CCS? Who do you plan on sitting up top and firing the icarus gun?
Yeah, if you are planning on sitting the ladies on top of the Bastion, I would drop their meltagun for sure -- 12" from the top of the bastion does not go very far. Can use the points to slap a combi-weapon on the mobile squad, or a 4th flamer in the PCS and a dozer blade for the rhino... or a slew of other things -- but if all they will do is sit up top then try to objective grab later on, I think the melta-gun won't see much (if any) use.
So other than simple repairs (Bastion took a hit from a stack of boxes and a couple simple weapon reglues)... I need to touch-up the 'PCS' to have the same squad markings and swap their weapons for flamers. Base one squad of Reds for Infantry Squad 1 and the 'power axe' guy (Using Zealots with Eviscerators for Sgts with Power Axes) for IS3. Paint the Manticore entirely. Finish touch ups and basing on the Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor (Primaris Counts As).
If I get fancy, I may swap/drop the bastion squad's melta for the 10 points on something else but I'm feeling much better now that I've seen it on a table.
Yeah, it is really solid and I can't wait to hear how things go.
For the Primaris, do you plan on swapping for any particular set of powers, or keeping the defaults. I am really starting to latch on to sticking a Primaris with a unit of foot-sisters (either on the ground or on top of a bastion) to provide Nightshroud.
But the CCS Lascannon + Orders are 2 awesome for me to give up.
Vs anything relaying on a cover save "Fire On My Target!" is awesome. Its awesome vs Skimmers, Tanks in cover or Flyers. Finally get that hit? This will make sure it sticks.
Twin Link Weapons is awesome ...
Anything with that can cause an Auto rally can save your arse.
pretre wrote: Sisters are pretty good, but not a great starting army. This is due to both price and learning curve. That being said, the standouts or base list (similar to above) is generally:
Celestine
Jacobus with Conclave in Rhino
2-4 Sisters Squads in Rhinos
3 Dominions
2-3 Exorcists
0-1 Retributors
So far, this type of army has been found pretty effective up to about 2000 points. I haven't seen any play above 2k, but we are theorizing that Celestine would need to be swapped for a second conclave and Kyrinov.
There's not a lot of variety in tested builds yet and we really need a lot more data. The problem is the small play base that currently uses them doesn't give us a lot of data.
Or the ones who play a different build get told to shut it, in not so many words.
I played successfuly with one of everything in the codex. Twas quite fun. Didn't lose much except right at the beginning when I first tried it. But I'm no quitter. Got my 20 game in with it.
Anyone tried that? REMARKABLY flexible threat profile. Only two troops in the list is where it was weaker. But when I did lose, it wasn't really because of the lack of troops. I will say it got way too close for comfort in those games and I think three Sisters units is really the least I would advise unless you're just messing around like I was. Still.... Did pretty good...
If your doing a pure sisters army the price isnt 2 bad if you buy it 2nd hand.
I got a whole army for just around $500.
Back in 5ed It was more then enough for me and my friend to split for 2 whole armies with left overs. Something like 5 Immolators, 3 Exorcists, St. Celestine, at least 4~5 squads with special weapons, and a Celestine squad + Canoness.
We also had some Inquisitors and Assassins but that got taken out from under us .... :: boo ::
I got a deal on Ebay one time: over $1000 worth of Sisters stuff for $200. No joke. I have so much excess sisters stuff its not funny. Good times. Sometimes Ebay is just your friend in a big way
Humblesteve wrote: I'm planning a sisters army, and I'm very excited. The way I see it though, I really should get some allies. Looking at what's missing in my sisters, I feel like they would benefit most from a) more long range shooting or b) some rock hard infantry that can take objectives. Any suggestions? I've never taken allies, and the only other army I have is chaos. I hate buying lots of guys, so I'd hope to get this right (nearly) the first time. I'm all ears.
And why the heck are IG the only battle brothers!?
Penitent Engines are an interesting unit. With the rules changes it helped the Penitent Engines be better in a lot of ways. Open topped means you really need to take cover with them. As the only forward armor in the list you just gave me, i am thinking they are going to be expensive paperweights fairly early on that will take pressure off the other units on the approach.
Moving behind the Rhinos could work but blown rhinos serve to slow the Raging machines down so the enemy probably can pop the rhinos without giving the Engines much movement advantage, Then kill the Engines.
Terrain is going to be crucial, but I am unsure as to whether that will save them. AV 11, open topped, rushing forth with nothing scarier approaching? I suppose what you'd be counting on is the enemy firing on the exorcists if the Sisters Rhinos dont block. Trouble is, the exorcists can be dispatched later and typically dont score so the Sisters and Penitent Engines will occupy a lions share of the enemy attention even if they have to throw away a unit to blockade in order to accomplish it.
In the past I have personally used Penitent Engines as singular things. It increass dramatically the number of uniots the enemy must use to kill them all and usually allowed at least one to wreak havoc before the games end. That would mean losing the Exorcists (and aesthetic shame) but then probably gaining a Quad-Melta Dominion Squad.
In the end, if you REALLY like Penitent Engines, that's what I would do. Split the pentitnts, skip the Exoscists and gain the Dominion to replace a lot of the anti-tank firepower you lost.
Other than terrible luck I guess with positioning, had some oblits come in by deep strike and they were almost impossible to budge.
St.celestine and her 8 gal seraphrim squad killed one and a half with all their flamers and bolt pistols then charge in and fail to do anything in assault vs T5 while getting smacked by power fists. This started on turn 2 essentially and continues till turn 5's end. Failure to get away on hit and run each time on a 6 also didn't help I suppose.
Had some GK terminators come in also but the hammer guy died eariler and so all the power weapons just kept bouncing off them while power fists are still punching my face in. Between 2+ armor, T5, and their daemon 5++, oblits were damn hard to kill.
What do you guys usually do to multiple squads of these guys?
Other than terrible luck I guess with positioning, had some oblits come in by deep strike and they were almost impossible to budge.
St.celestine and her 8 gal seraphrim squad killed one and a half with all their flamers and bolt pistols then charge in and fail to do anything in assault vs T5 while getting smacked by power fists. This started on turn 2 essentially and continues till turn 5's end. Failure to get away on hit and run each time on a 6 also didn't help I suppose.
Had some GK terminators come in also but the hammer guy died eariler and so all the power weapons just kept bouncing off them while power fists are still punching my face in. Between 2+ armor, T5, and their daemon 5++, oblits were damn hard to kill.
What do you guys usually do to multiple squads of these guys?
pretre wrote:Exorcists and melta. Retributors.
Pretty much this. I wouldn't have probably thrown St. Celestine and company at them unless truly necessary, but since you did, don't forget Hit & Run so that you can break off and shoot them again.
pretre wrote:2+ armor is the thing I like to see most across the field when playing sisters.
Indeed. SoB are usually well equipped to deal with 2+ armor saves. If a SoB player is struggling with handling 2+ armor save models/units, then that is probably a good sign that they need to bring more Melta/Exorcists/Rets to the table, IMO.
Other than terrible luck I guess with positioning, had some oblits come in by deep strike and they were almost impossible to budge.
St.celestine and her 8 gal seraphrim squad killed one and a half with all their flamers and bolt pistols then charge in and fail to do anything in assault vs T5 while getting smacked by power fists. This started on turn 2 essentially and continues till turn 5's end. Failure to get away on hit and run each time on a 6 also didn't help I suppose.
Had some GK terminators come in also but the hammer guy died eariler and so all the power weapons just kept bouncing off them while power fists are still punching my face in. Between 2+ armor, T5, and their daemon 5++, oblits were damn hard to kill.
What do you guys usually do to multiple squads of these guys?
pretre wrote:Exorcists and melta. Retributors.
In addition to this, what you experienced is why I keep an eviscerator on my Seraphim Superior. 2-3 chainfist attacks back at the oblits plus the weight of the other ladies' attacks will clear them right up.
ya I tried to hit and run and failed 3 times in a row with 6's each time for the initiative test which is why I may end up with a power axe or evicerator as recommended above. Got tied into combat as I couldn't risk losing my big bastion with coteaz, rets, lascannon and ther expensive monkies in it to the oblt's fire power next turn.
Too many oblits oversaturated my AP2 shooting which incidentially missed and or bounced off their 5++ daemon invul so I ended up charging them.
Yeah, failing hit and run 3 times definitely skewed things in the oblits favor. Being able to bounce back out and shoot/charge again should overwhelm them with weight of dice pretty easily.
What are you running on top of your Bastion with Coteaz?
I've tried a couple of different things and was considering just putting a squad of ladies up there and sticking the henchmen in a chimera. 2 Jokero, 3 plasma guns and some ablative wounds in a chimera seems like it would be able to provide some anti-tank for the first couple turns, then clear an objective (3 plasma guns and 2 heavy flamers from jokero) at the end of the game pretty easily. Unsure if it is worth it though.
sudojoe wrote: ya I tried to hit and run and failed 3 times in a row with 6's each time for the initiative test which is why I may end up with a power axe or evicerator as recommended above. Got tied into combat as I couldn't risk losing my big bastion with coteaz, rets, lascannon and ther expensive monkies in it to the oblt's fire power next turn. Too many oblits oversaturated my AP2 shooting which incidentially missed and or bounced off their 5++ daemon invul so I ended up charging them.
Fair enough. Bad luck on your part then. Of the two, I would strongly recommend an Eviscerator over an Axe.
On top it was coteaz, 2 monkies, 2 plasma cannon servators and 3 bolter acolytes for ablative wounds by standing in the front.
rets with 3 heavy bolters and one firing the emplaced heavy bolter. It's one heck of a fire base lol. I guess I used up my luck with coteaz getting perfect timing. All those lascannons and plasma cannons ignoring cover and reroll to hit is just brutal unless they throw too many units deep striking at you all at once just slightly out of the IBEY bubble.
Just glad abbadon wasn't in that pile or I'd be hosed.
The sisters was the allied detatchment which meant I couldn't get an exorcist but I may have to consider swapping some things out and replacing the retributor heavy bolter spam with like some henchmen inside instead. Still trying to find the happy balance between psyflemen dreads + DK vs exorcist + rets.
coteaz with 2 monkies, 2 plasma cannon servators, 3 bolter henchmen bullet catchers (not as good at objective camping as it's big fire power so I'm kind of limiting myself with scoring units)
5 man strike squad with psycannon to give warp quake to protect the back line (and to sit on objectives)
Bastion with lascannon
St.celestine
8 strong seraphrim squad with power sword and 2 sets of hand flamers
Battle sister squad (10 gals) with multi-melta and meltagun
Storm Raven with MM and LC DK with incinerator and teleporter
Psyfleman dreadnaught (psybolts and TLAC's)
Retributors with 3 heavy bolters.
Came in at 1500 so couldn't really fit in an evicerator unless I took out some seraphrim I think.
Humblesteve wrote: I'm planning a sisters army, and I'm very excited. The way I see it though, I really should get some allies. Looking at what's missing in my sisters, I feel like they would benefit most from a) more long range shooting or b) some rock hard infantry that can take objectives. Any suggestions? I've never taken allies, and the only other army I have is chaos. I hate buying lots of guys, so I'd hope to get this right (nearly) the first time. I'm all ears.
And why the heck are IG the only battle brothers!?
Penitent Engines are an interesting unit. With the rules changes it helped the Penitent Engines be better in a lot of ways. Open topped means you really need to take cover with them. As the only forward armor in the list you just gave me, i am thinking they are going to be expensive paperweights fairly early on that will take pressure off the other units on the approach.
Moving behind the Rhinos could work but blown rhinos serve to slow the Raging machines down so the enemy probably can pop the rhinos without giving the Engines much movement advantage, Then kill the Engines.
Terrain is going to be crucial, but I am unsure as to whether that will save them. AV 11, open topped, rushing forth with nothing scarier approaching? I suppose what you'd be counting on is the enemy firing on the exorcists if the Sisters Rhinos don't block. Trouble is, the exorcists can be dispatched later and typically don't score so the Sisters and Penitent Engines will occupy a lions share of the enemy attention even if they have to throw away a unit to blockade in order to accomplish it.
In the past I have personally used Penitent Engines as singular things. It increases dramatically the number of units the enemy must use to kill them all and usually allowed at least one to wreak havoc before the games end. That would mean losing the Exorcists (and aesthetic shame) but then probably gaining a Quad-Melta Dominion Squad.
In the end, if you REALLY like Penitent Engines, that's what I would do. Split the penitents, skip the Exorcists and gain the Dominion to replace a lot of the anti-tank firepower you lost.
This seems like a good opportunity to ask for help. I'm planning on doing a 100% plastic sisters army using DE wyches, warriors, and scourges. Given that, I would like to use as much of the codex as possible (except for celestines, rets, and doms, which are just retooled sisters). I was planning on running the PEs as a "Kan Wall" for the repentia, but can repentia run alone?
I'm planning on own fluff and symbol (an open book) that will replace the flour de lyse (spelling?).
I'll drop the PEs if they just aren't worth it. I'd like to try the model but they are pretty over priced IMO. I could also be persuaded to take rets, as they're pretty awesome.
Other than terrible luck I guess with positioning, had some oblits come in by deep strike and they were almost impossible to budge.
St.celestine and her 8 gal seraphrim squad killed one and a half with all their flamers and bolt pistols then charge in and fail to do anything in assault vs T5 while getting smacked by power fists. This started on turn 2 essentially and continues till turn 5's end. Failure to get away on hit and run each time on a 6 also didn't help I suppose.
Had some GK terminators come in also but the hammer guy died eariler and so all the power weapons just kept bouncing off them while power fists are still punching my face in. Between 2+ armor, T5, and their daemon 5++, oblits were damn hard to kill.
What do you guys usually do to multiple squads of these guys?
I'll be honest, Sisters shouldn't be charging terminators with ANYTHING other than St. Celestine alone. Even then, you'd only do it to slow them down (though that is 100% legit as far as reasons go). Terminators are out of the Sisters league as a rule. they can't sweeping advance you which is nice. But really, what's the advantage of taking such excellent anti-personell units and wasting theiur um...talents... on those dudes when theres porobably a troops choice somewhere you could be killing or some Rhinos you could be grenading up?
shutting the Obliterators up so they dont keep shooting is legit thought, but do it with shooting, from a distance. =) Even if they get one more shot off than you'd like, at least your army is still doing ITS thing in the meantime.
This seems like a good opportunity to ask for help. I'm planning on doing a 100% plastic sisters army using DE wyches, warriors, and scourges. Given that, I would like to use as much of the codex as possible (except for celestines, rets, and doms, which are just retooled sisters). I was planning on running the PEs as a "Kan Wall" for the repentia, but can repentia run alone?
I'm planning on own fluff and symbol (an open book) that will replace the flour de lyse (spelling?).
I'll drop the PEs if they just aren't worth it. I'd like to try the model but they are pretty over priced IMO. I could also be persuaded to take rets, as they're pretty awesome.
Wow, souhnds like it will be a cool mashup. Guardians do have female body pieces you can trade for too, as a thought.
But my take on Penitent Engines is not 100% positive. But here is something to think about: the army isn't made up of "the best units thrown together". You need a plan. A good plan. And then you need to say "okay, can the army do that? And how?". thats how all my armies are built. There is a way I want to fight, an overall strategy. I just fit the parts to match that strategy instead of obsessing over Redundancy in my units. I eat people who pray to the redundancy Gawds for dinner. Having three awesome units wont save you. Having a plan will.
So in the case of Penitent Engines, I own three and as I metnioned before I have used a "one of everything list" to surprising effect. Just having one in the list and reserving it put the fear of gawd into the combat squading "super units" that like to drop in and assassinate tanks, like the Blood angels do. Other than Terminators, they can take on most of what you can throw at them. Great against Orc Dreadnoughts and I can go on, but If you take just one and PLAN for him to basically keep the enemy honest and away from your more precious units, it can be REALLY effective and do a lot of damage. If you try to use it to cross open groun for three rounds... well... I think you can imagine what will happen right? The unit IS good enough to cause serious consternation for the enemy so they wont let that happen if they have a say.
The big problem is that as a squadron, when they take damage, it spreads. So thats why I recommend if taking them, to take them separately. I DO think you could BOTH take pressure off the rest of your army AND actually get to something worth killing by games end with one if you did this. I think it would be a totally sound strategy. You just really gotta ask yourself what they will DO for you when they arrive and play accordingly. LURE someone to a board edge, then run away and jump them with the Penitent forcing them to shoot it or die next round...or back away. Keepos the flank clean. Just as an example.
shutting the Obliterators up so they dont keep shooting is legit thought, but do it with shooting, from a distance. =) Even if they get one more shot off than you'd like, at least your army is still doing ITS thing in the meantime.
I'm not entirely convinced that leaving them alone would have done much good for me. Sure it tied up the saint and seras but the building damage chart makes me think that losing my warlord, icarus lascannon, rets, and some space monkies would have been a worse trade off. I have a deadly fear of multi-meltas at 12' to the bastion.
Do you think it's worth the risk to the bastion?
Incidentially, what do you guys think of the list overall? The dread and exorcist are the same points so I can sorta go either way.
The big problem is that as a squadron, when they take damage, it spreads. So thats why I recommend if taking them, to take them separately. I DO think you could BOTH take pressure off the rest of your army AND actually get to something worth killing by games end with one if you did this. I think it would be a totally sound strategy. You just really gotta ask yourself what they will DO for you when they arrive and play accordingly. LURE someone to a board edge, then run away and jump them with the Penitent forcing them to shoot it or die next round...or back away. Keepos the flank clean. Just as an example.
That hasn't been my experience at all - I always squadron them up and it has made them far more survivable. With the new squadron rules the hits all go to the first PE till it dies, and then continues on - that generally means I can absorb a few hull points, shuffle the wounded one to the back, and keep on trucking. I often go four or five hull points before I lose one engine, and with them ignoring half the penetration chart they are really quite durable in a squad. I DO run them across the board sometimes, and I could never even dream of managing that if they were on their own.
As far as the Repentia, a Penitent kan-wall might be all right, but I prefer to run Repentia up behind Seraphim, fronted by Celestine. It's a wall of cover with 3+ saves, 2+ until celestine drops... and unlike PE, it does not slow the Repentia down. I run two squads of repentia up behind Celestine and company, and it is a major source of concern for the enemy. Helps keep a good deal of fire off my PE once they realize they need their high strength to get rid of Celestine fast. Mind you, that is a bit of an all or nothing trick - if Celestine survives a few rounds, you have a death star that breaks into component pieces at the enemy lines and kills several units in one nasty turn. If Celestine drops turn one, Seraphim start dropping fast and Repentia have to scatter into cover and play area denial until they are whittled down.
It matters what else you're running. Obviously if I take THREE or FOUR hammer units, the enemy is saturated by targets and now they have to prioritize differently because the Penitent Engines, while burly, DO go on I3 and grenades and fists DO work on them... But the sheer volume from the Conclave or Repentia sisters on the charge vs. the variable threat of the Penitent... I can see how an enemy might let them slide in the second round of shooting for example and just absorb a hit. Tau do this (throw away units are easy for therm).
The net impact of the Penitents is what I am looking at. As aforementioned, you might get one over there, but if the unit takes 4 hits, it can blow the whole unit apart and that can be ONE Engine or it can be three, your choice... Luck is nice, but open topped makes luck harder to find. Will it ever work? Sure. I once got all three across the board and literally tore 4 units apart without losing one. Tabled the dude eventually. So based on that you might believe they are the answer to cancer. In a game against orcs, they annihilated all his Dreads with ease. they never swung once. It happens.
Owning three of those beauties (really love that model), I've not found them to be terrible, but they certainly are not anywhere close to an auto include. On the general scale I find the Engines are an enigma. So much promise yet... Realizing the promise can be daunting.
I dont want to discourage anyone from using them. Just make sure you have a really good plan.
shutting the Obliterators up so they dont keep shooting is legit thought, but do it with shooting, from a distance. =) Even if they get one more shot off than you'd like, at least your army is still doing ITS thing in the meantime.
I'm not entirely convinced that leaving them alone would have done much good for me. Sure it tied up the saint and seras but the building damage chart makes me think that losing my warlord, icarus lascannon, rets, and some space monkies would have been a worse trade off. I have a deadly fear of multi-meltas at 12' to the bastion.
Do you think it's worth the risk to the bastion?
Incidentially, what do you guys think of the list overall? The dread and exorcist are the same points so I can sorta go either way.
To be fair, I have seen the Bastion played twice and I nuked it turn 1 both times. Im not really sure why people like them. I get the way its meant to work. I just see it flattened too often to trust it. Ultimately though, not knowing the details and what your options were i cant really tell y=a what the right move was.
Exorcists can be helpful. Retributors with Heavy Bolters are restricted by their range and Exorcists aren't impossible to kill but while alive they do a good job of taking up an opponents attention while youre meneuvering into position.
I take the etributors with Heavy Flamers and mount em up in the Rhino. Frightening amounts of damage, units get to better positions, no more need of a bastion. I like it.
Jancoran wrote: To be fair, I have seen the Bastion played twice and I nuked it turn 1 both times. Im not really sure why people like them. I get the way its meant to work. I just see it flattened too often to trust it. Ultimately though, not knowing the details and what your options were i cant really tell y=a what the right move was.
We have talked about statistical outliers before and I'll talk about it again here. The chance of someone taking out an AV14 building that cannot be glanced to death first turn are very low. With the exception of long range AP1 (Broadsides), it is unlikely that you are going to drop it on first turn. Can it happen? Sure. Is it likely? Not at all.
Exorcists can be helpful. Retributors with Heavy Bolters are restricted by their range and Exorcists aren't impossible to kill but while alive they do a good job of taking up an opponents attention while youre meneuvering into position.
I take the etributors with Heavy Flamers and mount em up in the Rhino. Frightening amounts of damage, units get to better positions, no more need of a bastion. I like it.
I get that you like the EZ Bake oven, but it is just diffcult to use, expensive and fragile. Compared to a bastion with HB rets, you are going to get a lot less mileage out of an EZ Bake.
Popping the bastion turn 1 means:
* I deployed too close and gave him the range (for say Vindicators)
* He drop-podded and I didn't screen it well enough
* He got a lucky lascannon shot
* He brought some 2D6 armour penetration long range goodies, i.e. Vanquishers
I suppose it also depends on your local scene.
I usually suffer the drop-pod treatment, don't see much Vanquishers.
Shandara wrote: Popping the bastion turn 1 means:
* I deployed too close and gave him the range (for say Vindicators)
* He drop-podded and I didn't screen it well enough
* He got a lucky lascannon shot
* He brought some 2D6 armour penetration long range goodies, i.e. Vanquishers
I suppose it also depends on your local scene.
I usually suffer the drop-pod treatment, don't see much Vanquishers.
Yeah, so the first two are preventable. The third is luck and the fourth is unlikely.
Just saying, I make lists based on likely outcomes in a game. I create redundancy and overlapping of roles through multiple slots. I do not build all my lists to counter grots even though one time grots totally wiped out a squad of terminators in hand to hand. There's likely things to factor in, unlikely things and then just freakish chance. If the freakish chance things happen, you're probably already in trouble and most pre-planning isn't going to help.
Just getting my nuns set for 6th and I have a few questions:
I am using eviserator armed redemptionists for repentia ( I had 20 don't ask) but I don't have a good model for the mistress anythoughts would like it to look "priestly" to fit the unit idea of repenting priests.
Next thinking of this as a rough list idea:
Celestine and seraphim
Jacobus with lots of crusaders
Using these units and dominions to get up and tarpit or destroy shooters and armour 2 units.
3 units of sOB in rhinos. Objective parking flamers all around.
2 dom in immolators melta all around
Then as much repentia and petinent love that I can squeeze into 500ish points
canadianguy wrote: Just getting my nuns set for 6th and I have a few questions:
Welcome to the party!
I am using eviserator armed redemptionists for repentia ( I had 20 don't ask) but I don't have a good model for the mistress anythoughts would like it to look "priestly" to fit the unit idea of repenting priests.
I did the same before I got some repentia models. If you have a lot of redemptionists, I would convert up one of the other ones and give him a pair of whips. There's some good bits in the flagellant kits for whips.
Next thinking of this as a rough list idea:
Celestine and seraphim
Jacobus with lots of crusaders
Using these units and dominions to get up and tarpit or destroy shooters and armour 2 units.
3 units of sOB in rhinos. Objective parking flamers all around.
2 dom in immolators melta all around
Then as much repentia and petinent love that I can squeeze into 500ish points
Yes an assault focussed SOB list!
Make sure to get some DCA for Jacobus as well.
Sounds like fun. Let us know how it goes. An awesome trick you can pull with assaulty sisters (or any army) is to get an aegis and put it 6-9" outside your deployment zone. Then first turn, move and run into it so you have cover.
So I have come to accept that guard is the one army that we are just meant to lose to, unless the guy playing it just isn’t competent with the army. ..
Lol. I respect IG a lot Spidey. In capable hands it is a powerful army. We have one of the best IG Generals here locally that I have faced and ironically he doesn't do tournaments really (he plays really slow and doesn't think he can finish games under normal time constraints but he beats the pants off of everyone). What I have found against him is that the Sisters stack up really well. The outflanking Dominions crash into the sides of his carefully laid out deployment, St Celestine shoves herself up his nose with her Seraphim and the Sisters and the Repentia etc... blast the Chimeras open. His allies usually include Space Wolves for defense, and they do some damage when I get there for sure.
But I've not played against IG and felt there was no winning it.
canadianguy wrote: I was thinking conclave more to tarpit than do wounds hence why the crusader imbalance with the invul and fnp from jacob they should hold up well.
That's kind of a waste for the unit, but hey, it's up to you. Conclave (when it survives) is a nasty, choppy unit that eats almost anything. Don't waste it.
Shandara wrote: Problem is getting there with it and actually charging.
Their Rhino will have a big target sign painted on it. And walking isn't much better.
Walking isn't so bad if you have enough crusaders and/or an Aegis at the center line. It still isn't a good idea though. I would never take them in a rhino now.
Assault took a hit in general and the conclave took a big hit.
Since this is the major thread for SoB I just have to post this. If anyone has missed it, Raging Heroes are launching a few Kickstarters this year with what they call:
"Imagine a movie directed by Tarantino in which a band of female warriors/soldiers are drafted from all the prisons and hellholes of the galaxy, and are then led by our very own Kurganova sisters. Imagine a bunch of punk-ass big-mouth bad girls, kind of like a mix between Aliens' Vasquez, Tank Girl, and Planet Terror's Cherry Darling, and you get an army of psyched Rambo girls – we like to call them "the Rambettes" - that you would not want to approach if you care for your life."
And more importantly:
"We've been working on a futuristic Paladin Sisterhood army for quite some time now and we have a lot of stuff tucked away for this."
Of course, taste is always something that is personal. There are likely to be those out there who find their products both stereotypical and sexist but I have to admit to beeing a huge fan of them. Given their AWESOME miniatures, I love their versions of Daemonettes (which look like the way they should before GW went PG-13 on them) and Witch Elves and how well they suit my own Sisters of Slaanesh army with their allied IG (all female ofc) these kickstarters is THE major thing I am looking forward to when it comes to new miniatures this year. Who knows, another company actually making miniatures that could be used as Sisters is perhaps the only thing that might push GW into paying us SoB-players some attention...
Okay, new idea for the Guardian Cup (1750) next month:
Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Multimelta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino (Search)
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors x7, 4 HB, Simulacrum Imperialis
Bastion with Quad-Gun
Primaris
PCS with 3 Flamers
4 x Infantry with Power Axe/MB, Autocannon
Vendetta
Manticore
BSS without a vehicle goes in the Bastion so they have 3 HB and a Storm Bolter (plus normal Bolters). Rets go on top with the quad.
Celestine, Jacobus and the Primaris go in the blob. This allows Celestine to soak wounds with her 2+ and FNP, if the Primaris gets endurance, she also gets It Will Not Die! which is hilarious. Alternatively, I could split them in two blobs depending on mission and such.
pretre wrote: Okay, new idea for the Guardian Cup (1750) next month:
Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Multimelta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino (Search)
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors x7, 4 HB, Simulacrum Imperialis
Bastion with Quad-Gun
Primaris
PCS with 3 Flamers
4 x Infantry with Power Axe/MB, Autocannon
Vendetta
Manticore
BSS without a vehicle goes in the Bastion so they have 3 HB and a Storm Bolter (plus normal Bolters). Rets go on top with the quad.
Celestine, Jacobus and the Primaris go in the blob. This allows Celestine to soak wounds with her 2+ and FNP, if the Primaris gets endurance, she also gets It Will Not Die! which is hilarious. Alternatively, I could split them in two blobs depending on mission and such.
No offense was intended. I am just stunnned to see my list sitting right there for comment.
So I guess my comment is: bravo?
There are some cosmetic differences but nothing that matters. They are different enough that we won't leave with each others armies on accident or anything. But its...well its real damn close!
I am at my insurance agency right now, so i don't have the working model with me.
But it is in every essential way this. The Manticore kills Multi-wound models like no ones business, and isn't a bad horde stopper either. It counts for the Big Guns Never Tire Mission that they announced will be part of it. Good to have three armored heavies for that. My Retributors might be Heavy Flamers so that I can score with them in that mission. Again I'll have to look.
The Vindetta provides me with a second anti-aircraft tool to use and of course is excellent in the Scouring which will be the first mission.
Jacobus and Celestine for all the obvious reasons. Same with Primaris.
Weapons loadout on Sisters of Battle isn't the same. Thats one place we differed.
And of course the IG troopies.
Im considering whether I want two exorcists though. I may go another direction there. Two is basically how many you take as an insurance policy so that we hope both of them wont suck at the same time. but there are other options there. One can afford to bet on the suckage not to be too bad if it means other positive changes.
So dont carve it in stone just yet, but I mean... There's little diff between the two.
Well, it looks like a fun list to try myself once. Shame I never get to do a mirror match, there's precious few Sister players in all of Holland, let alone my area.
Jancoran wrote:I assume one or both of us will be at the top table representing Sisters of Battle in the end.
Wishful thinking.
Perhaps your bordeom can be assuaged somewhat by the prospects of repeating. You are the returning Guardian Cup champion I believe you said?
I am, although who knows if my luck will hold out again.
Shandara wrote:I smell heresy.
Well, it looks like a fun list to try myself once. Shame I never get to do a mirror match, there's precious few Sister players in all of Holland, let alone my area.
Jancoran and I have never played yet. I have played against another Sisters player locally but he runs GK allies, which I do not. So it isn't truly mirror. We actually got paired up round one of a tournament last year which was super hilarious.
Jancoran wrote:I assume one or both of us will be at the top table representing Sisters of Battle in the end.
Wishful thinking.
Perhaps your bordeom can be assuaged somewhat by the prospects of repeating. You are the returning Guardian Cup champion I believe you said?
I am, although who knows if my luck will hold out again.
Well if I DO win the Guardian Cup, it will be the fourth tourney win in a row for my Sisters of Battle force (specifically). That would be quite a feat for anyone really and would be a personal best for them. I have something to play for, mirror or no mirror.
As for wishful thinking, I am not sure of how wishful it really is. Sun Tzu saud this as regards Tactical Dispositions:
Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights, and afterwards looks for victory.
Plus I mean... Seriously. We play Sisters of Battle! Whose going to stop us but another convent anyways? And if they do stop us, 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Sisters of Battle? I'll take it! Lower tier my sweet patooty!
So I've read through a bunch of the past few pages and am excited to be starting up Sisters of Battle I've made a local tournament-level list that I'm going to try in March and would love some feedback on it. It's more of a flavorful list than one that I would expect to win a major tournament like you guys are building for. It does take a similar guard-blob approach and, sadly, it uses a large number of points for IG because, well it's what I have right now Again, semi-competitive level here so be kind!
HQ:
Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus
Company Command Squad (Lord Castellan Creed)
Heavy Support:
5x Retributors (4x Heavy Bolters, Simulacrum)
Penitent Engine
Penitent Engine
Fortification:
Aegis Defence Line (Quad Gun)
The idea was that I was going to use the penitent engines counter-assault units riding behind my scouted (thanks to creed) infantry blob. I don't really want to get rid of them because they are really cool and iconic
I've had good success recently in much smaller games using St. Celestine in larger squads and then breaking her off to harass units in cover (especially scouts, etc.).
Castellan Creed is really awesome. He's not VERY commonly used that I have seen in my local area and the surrounding 60 miles, but he's my MVP. I love synergy characters and he's one that makes the whole army better than its parts.
Jancoran and I have never played yet. I have played against another Sisters player locally but he runs GK allies, which I do not. So it isn't truly mirror. We actually got paired up round one of a tournament last year which was super hilarious.
If you two play at the Cup you NEED to post a battle report!!!
I mean, you should both post your results anyway, but if you match up and don't share...
Going to actually look at your list now Pre to try and provide feedback, or at the very least questions for discussion.
erfunk wrote: If that wasn't finals weekend for Winter term, there might have been 3 Sisters armies at the Guardian Cup... likely with IG allies.
Are finals that week? Luckily I only have one class.
For Portland State, they're the week of March 18th. Two finals for me, but one is a pretty hefty takehome test due that Monday. At least the Sororitas will be well represented.
I've been toying with buying something from the Guard artillery section. The Manticore is obviously a good pick, but what are opinions on the Basilisk? The lower price tag, AP3, and not being limited on number of shots is appealing. Is the boon toward sniping models off of Bastions and behind an Aegis worth the loss of S10 for an army that tends to peak at 8? I don't tend to field Rets, so it may be in combination with 2-3 Exorcists and optional Vendetta.
The Basilisk is an excellent weapon but it has issues on the table top due to it's long minimum range. I'd suggest looking at a Medusa if you want full on arty.
I'm a fan of the Manticore for a sister ally. We need the S10 in our army. More S8 or cover denying? Meh.
Also, Basilisks can fire inside their minimum range, iirc. They just don't subtract their BS. I may need to look this up again.
Barrage weaponscan fire
indirectly. Thismeansthey can fire
at a target that they do not have
line ofsight to and/or a target that
is within the weapon'sminimum
range(ifit has one).When firing
indirectly, the Ballistic Skillof the
firer is not subtracted from the
scatter distance; unless a Hit! is
rolled on the scatter dice, the blast
marker always scatters a full 2D6".
Ok, I'm having a panic moment. I've got a box of DE wyches in the mail to turn into repentia. Now I'm not one for net lists, but I'm not seeing any assault elements on some of the more respectable lists here. Even then, are repentia the ones to model? I can turn them into a conclave too, and that's a great modeling opportunity.
So for your points- conclave or repentia? Or mysterious third option I'm not thinking about.
Humblesteve wrote: Ok, I'm having a panic moment. I've got a box of DE wyches in the mail to turn into repentia. Now I'm not one for net lists, but I'm not seeing any assault elements on some of the more respectable lists here. Even then, are repentia the ones to model? I can turn them into a conclave too, and that's a great modeling opportunity.
So for your points- conclave or repentia? Or mysterious third option I'm not thinking about.
lol for my money? I'd do Conclave before Repentia. Conclave and Jacobus is still pretty okay. Put Jacobus on a Quad behind an Aegis, get some crusaders and DCA and sit them there with him and dare someone to come to your deployment zone.
Super competitive? No. Super fun? Yes.
I have a bunch of conclave minis right now that are all sitting on the shelf. They were great when they could assault out of vehicles. Combine the assault out of rhino nerf with the availability of better allies and they got shelved.
Repentia? I do not run them. Some of the other guys on here have given their good points in the past. IMO, there are better things to spend your points on that will be more effective.
Humblesteve wrote: Ok, I'm having a panic moment. I've got a box of DE wyches in the mail to turn into repentia. Now I'm not one for net lists, but I'm not seeing any assault elements on some of the more respectable lists here. Even then, are repentia the ones to model? I can turn them into a conclave too, and that's a great modeling opportunity.
So for your points- conclave or repentia? Or mysterious third option I'm not thinking about.
lol for my money? I'd do Conclave before Repentia. Conclave and Jacobus is still pretty okay. Put Jacobus on a Quad behind an Aegis, get some crusaders and DCA and sit them there with him and dare someone to come to your deployment zone.
Super competitive? No. Super fun? Yes.
I have a bunch of conclave minis right now that are all sitting on the shelf. They were great when they could assault out of vehicles. Combine the assault out of rhino nerf with the availability of better allies and they got shelved.
Repentia? I do not run them. Some of the other guys on here have given their good points in the past. IMO, there are better things to spend your points on that will be more effective.
Consider it settled then. I was kinda looking forward to modeling a Jackie-bus, sister defenders, and assassin sisters. Is 5 and 5 a fair ratio?
I can model some plastic repentia later, but I'd rather have something I can play with.
Humblesteve wrote: Consider it settled then. I was kinda looking forward to modeling a Jackie-bus, sister defenders, and assassin sisters. Is 5 and 5 a fair ratio?
I think 4 and 6 or 5 and 5 is a good ratio.
Now, depending on your play group*, I would suggest the following, modelling wise:
4 Crusaders with Power Axes
2 DCA with Sword/Axe
2 DCA with Maul/Axe
2 DCA with Maul/Sword
If you want an even 5/5, I would drop one Maul/Sword.
* Some groups disagree with the free modelling of power weapons.
pretre wrote: I'm a fan of the Manticore for a sister ally. We need the S10 in our army. More S8 or cover denying? Meh.
Also, Basilisks can fire inside their minimum range, iirc. They just don't subtract their BS. I may need to look this up again.
S9, with Ordinance for armor pen and pinning like the Manticore. And Pretre is right, min range only costs them their BS (which if hidden, they've already lost it). Picking wounds off Quad-Guns is another nice perk of the AP3, if I'm shooting over their walls anyway.
Despite me defending the underdog Basi, I'm not saying I'm set on which to use. How useful or limiting do you find the Manticore's built-in mutiple barrage? If you get a hit on the 2nd or 3rd blast, does it have to be tangental to the first or can it be overlapping?
I think I can pass on the Medusa for now, since I pack a lot of AT anyway. And I'm also the most frequent DW player at the tourneys in Salem so I don't tend to see a ton of TDA fielded against me. But it occurs to me that if I build it right, I have the option to trade the barrel out to run the variants. I'd just need to scratch build more barrels...
erfunk wrote: Despite me defending the underdog Basi, I'm not saying I'm set on which to use. How useful or limiting do you find the Manticore's built-in mutiple barrage? If you get a hit on the 2nd or 3rd blast, does it have to be tangental to the first or can it be overlapping?
You can overlap some or all of the template.
I think I can pass on the Medusa for now, since I pack a lot of AT anyway. And I'm also the most frequent DW player at the tourneys in Salem so I don't tend to see a ton of TDA fielded against me. But it occurs to me that if I build it right, I have the option to trade the barrel out to run the variants. I'd just need to scratch build more barrels...
Exactly correct. I would have done this if I hadn't traded for my Manticore. Damn plastic glue.
That is what I heard
Do we really have any other options?? I thought about hit-and-run eviscerators with Celestine, but unsure if that war of attrition is worth it given how good seraphim are at cleaning up the little bugs.
), auto-mishapped, and I got to place the unit in a no-man's land taking them out of the rest of the game ( 
). His bike made a suicide run on an exorcist but only managed to glance. Azrael and the Libby (started with the unit of 5 terminators) ended up joining the 
The 
