Huh. Must really be 'to each their own' since I love the way the Marauders are coming out. I don't mind true scale models at all but I don't hate heroic scale the way some people do. The Aesterian concept art is the first thing I've seen from Deadzone that I hate. Way, way too thin. They'll look like Mantic's anorexic elves if they're not careful. True scale is fine as long as it's "true", meaning nimble and graceful should never translate into pipe cleaner thin and sickly looking.
I think the idea of thin cyborgs for the Asterians works well enough, but I do find the KoW elves too thin for my tastes. I'd like a little more meat on the bones for actual Asterian models, but that's just my personal opinion.
Riquende wrote: I'm currently in the process of converting the video from today's seminar, but one thing I do remember from it is the question of hard plastic Enforcers. Definitely happening in the Warpath KS, but not this one (Ronnie said it would be hard plastic for every faction). If the Deadzone KS goes high enough there might be a hard plastic sprue made for the 'plague zombies' though.
Pity about no "hard plastic" Enforcers here. I would spend very heavily on them, and I know I'm not alone. Plus, tooling them here would allow for more in the Warpath KS.
Not sure I'm into the Plague Zombie idea. They don't really make sense based upon what I know of the Plague so far. i.e.: The further from the source of the infection you are, the less mindless you become.
~Eric
The idea behind the plague zombies are that they are infected citizens from the fallout of the artifact and may turn up randomly in a scenario. Not part of The Plague faction but an additional threat for you to deal with.
They've seen the KS comments their attitude seems to be we'll get better pictures for you and they'll look brilliant - ah no you can't make those poses look brilliant no matter how good a photographer you are in this case I don't think it matters how much we complain they're not going to change them. Ultimately it will hurt their long term sales of this line and any money they spend to put things right will have a long term benefit but for the KS we don't get a choice at Strike Team so it's a case of like it or lump it I'm afraid
DaveC wrote: They've seen the KS comments their attitude seems to be we'll get better pictures for you and they'll look brilliant - ah no you can't make those poses look brilliant no matter how good a photographer you are in this case I don't think it matters how much we complain they're not going to change them.
Disappointing. Replace the head and the arms and the models will look great IMO. Make them fit with either the plastic warpath marauders, or with the dreadball orcs stylistically - either would be fine, but they need to fit with one or the other.
DaveC wrote: They've seen the KS comments their attitude seems to be we'll get better pictures for you and they'll look brilliant - ah no you can't make those poses look brilliant no matter how good a photographer you are in this case I don't think it matters how much we complain they're not going to change them. Ultimately it will hurt their long term sales of this line and any money they spend to put things right will have a long term benefit but for the KS we don't get a choice at Strike Team so it's a case of like it or lump it I'm afraid
I think that's a harsh evaluation on the single post they made since the reaction began.
Its too big sudden and negative response for the PR/ community manager guy to respond.
I feel its a nice diplomatic response, the fact they did not respond again after that may mean they are in an out of schedule meeting to see how they will handle the situation.
Yes, it may mean they will stick to this, it may also mean they may scrap them, time will tell the ball is in their court.
Well, I've said enough on the Orx. The rest looks good enough to keep a Strike Team (the upgrade playing surface, Rebs, and extra sprues make it enough savings to stick with).
I'd really like for them to bring 3-4 more Mercs in the next 200k or so though.
TBH I think I'd have liked the Marauders to go down the wise-cracking bad-ass route of 80s action films like Predator or anything with Arnie/Stallone/Willis etc in. Y'know, tough as nails, non-regulation gear look, cigar chomping etc etc.
I'm fairly indifferent to whether they go heroic scale or not for the Warpath universe - I just want each faction to have a consistent style to it across the model range.
Well have to say I am in the 'what a shame' camp with the Marauders..
Why just make copies of the GW/Brian Nelson comedy Orks concept? We can buy those already.
Looking at this concept art..
Made me hope that they would follow the more 'serious/cunning' ork of D&D or LoTR, a sinister intelligence style of ork , rather than the violent buffoon.
Iv'e got loads of the KoW Orx for that reason.. that they were different. Maybe they didn't sell that well?
Since 'Heroic' scale isn't a real thing and just slang, its a matter of opinion. But I will say look at the Rebs. The humans and Yndij have fairly realistic sized weapons, while the beefier Grogan is lugging around Tank/Chopper/Mounted size guns. But is that cause they are purposefully trying to go over the top, or would you naturally arm a guy with a weapon normally too big for a man on a race that has a more solid frame, and a lower center of gravity?
Those Orcs are just gak. If it's an attempt to match the GW style, it's a total fail. GW Orks aren't defined by comedy sculpts these days, that was mostly through a period in 2nd edition, and when it extended in WHFB much of it was through the goblins, or games like Blood Bowl (which was OTT for most races). Modern Brian Nelson Orks look pretty mean, actually for the most part.
So, yeah. It's nothing to do with "heroic scale". It's simply bad sculpts and bad posing. Did Remy do those? I guess it's clear he can produce awful sculpts as well as great ones, in that case. I hope they let us swap them out, because I really don't want to pay for those. This is where the whole "but there're so cheap" starts to fall down.
Pacific wrote: Well have to say I am in the 'what a shame' camp with the Marauders..
Why just make copies of the GW/Brian Nelson comedy Orks concept? We can buy those already.
Looking at this concept art..
Made me hope that they would follow the more 'serious/cunning' ork of D&D or LoTR, a sinister intelligence style of ork , rather than the violent buffoon.
Iv'e got loads of the KoW Orx for that reason.. that they were different. Maybe they didn't sell that well?
Honestly, if I choose to play the Marauders, I'll get a pack of the KoW troops to act in as the base troops. The snipers look good, and the Mek suit is looking better then previously anticipated
DaveC wrote: Nope Remy doesn't sculpt in Greenstuff he uses Fimo so these are very unlikely to be his sculpts.
OK, after Squig's 6,343'rd post assuring us that only Remy was allowed to sculpt stuff for Warpath, I was wondering why they looked so awful. I think it's worth reiterating though - it's not because they're heroic or not, or even "comedy" or not (note those Confrontation gobboes posted above!). It's about bad sculpting or not. Those figures look like the sort of thing put out by "not-40k" producers in the 1990's.
This harks back to the exact same thing I was/am bitching about in the KoW thread - Mantic have no effective Quality Control/"Sculpt Editor". It's clear that sculptors are just producing whatever they want and whoever is in charge just keeps saying "that's great!" instead of "NO! Do it again!" They should add another 3 months to the fulfilment time and get all of the sculpts redone and up to scratch, if they want to be selling these for any length of time.
Well the dreadball orx may have been good, didn't really interest me that much were included in the bundle, didn't care, plenty of other good races to be happy about, on retrospect the fact they didn't bother me could be described as them been decent.
these on the other hand are really bad, so bad I cannot ignore them, the plague for example is indifferent to me, so while they are not good, they are not bad enough to draw attention.
I really hope they redo them and they increase/ introduce quality control to the sculptors.
Well, like I said, I'm cool with them as is. I don't have any orcs from anyone at the moment, so having even a few, even if they're goofy is fine with me. Their poses don't bother me and neither do the exaggerated features. That being said, if Mantic sees all of the negative feedback related to them, maybe they'll go and redo them? I'm kind of doubting it seeing how far along they are at this point and because it might set back the game's release, but it is certainly a possibility. If they did redo them to be more in line with the existing orcs, I'd still be happy with them.
Maybe it's just me though. One slightly goofy faction isn't going to make or break it for me.
Yeah, not to pile on but the rank-and-file Orx are not doing it for me. Liking the Ripper suit and I don't mind the Gobbos being a bit silly, but the normal ones really have me reconsidering my eventual pledge. The Rebs and Enforcers look nice, but they can't fully offset the Marauders. Not to say "Doooooom!", but it does give me a great deal of pause on doing a Suppression Team-level pledge if a quarter of the models will be "meh" (The niceness of the Ripper suit being offset by the Enforcer captain).
Obviously Mantic doesn't need to change anything to appease me; I'm just stating where I stand as a prospective backer.
Time for them to announce a willingness to let people swap factions out. I'd swap those Orks out for more Enforcers or Rebs, since many of those have been seen now, and are nice sculpts. After seeing the KoW sculpts, I'm not willing to keep throwing money at these clowns for whatever sculpts they say "good enough" to.
Azazelx wrote: Time for them to announce a willingness to let people swap factions out. I'd swap those Orks out for more Enforcers or Rebs, since many of those have been seen now, and are nice sculpts. After seeing the KoW sculpts, I'm not willing to keep throwing money at these clowns for whatever sculpts they say "good enough" to.
They need to make it a 4 pack of factions you choose so people can choose expansions or doubles. Otherwise they are asking people to buy 3 factions for the price of 4 and "oh by the way, we mail you some garbage, please throw these away for us."
Azazelx wrote: Time for them to announce a willingness to let people swap factions out. I'd swap those Orks out for more Enforcers or Rebs, since many of those have been seen now, and are nice sculpts. After seeing the KoW sculpts, I'm not willing to keep throwing money at these clowns for whatever sculpts they say "good enough" to.
They need to make it a 4 pack of factions you choose so people can choose expansions or doubles. Otherwise they are asking people to buy 3 factions for the price of 4 and "oh by the way, we mail you some garbage, please throw these away for us."
Agreed. A good way to put it as well. Though I suspect that they won't do either, since they'll want to sell the other, unpreviewed factions as additional add-ons instead of trade-ins.
The way the stretch goals are designed, if you want to get things like the scenery add-ons, mats, extra figures, etc you really do need to get Strike Team. At present ST comes with 2 extra scenery sprues, which is (more than) half of the reason to be backing this KS at present.
But hey, if anyone here wants to swap out my Orx for their Enforcers or Rebs, just let me know.
DaveC wrote: Nope Remy doesn't sculpt in Greenstuff he uses Fimo so these are very unlikely to be his sculpts.
OK, after Squig's 6,343'rd post assuring us that only Remy was allowed to sculpt stuff for Warpath, I was wondering why they looked so awful.
That was what I'd heard, quite a while ago. It's clearly changed since then and sculptors other than Remy are now doing stuff for Warpath.
Plague 3rd Gen are non-Remy, as are the Marauders quite clearly.
Then again, the Rebs don't seem to be Remy sculpts either, so if the same person who did the marauders did the Rebs then it's clear they're capable of good sculpts, as long as they stick to the concept art properly.
On the other hand the concept art is to blame to some extent for the posing, the dancing goblin and the spread guns commando poses both appear in the concept art.
For me, the KoW orcs are *perfect*, absolutely mean, lean, murderous looking buggers. Quite clearly huge slabs of muscle but without the 'roided out look. The heads make them look cunning/ violent/ unpredictable, a lot of them have this awesome little sneer on them, and the little touches like the ornate armour with leering faces embossed in it, little bones here and there give an overall style quite similar to D&D or the really old citadel orcs, which is brilliant. Now, you can't just use the bodies for sci-fi and expect people to buy the models because they're covered in fantasy stuff, which is why the marauders probably didn't sell well for warpath, but the overall size/pose/shape of the orc is perfect and doesn't need to be re-imagined for sci-fi, they got it right the first time when making the fantasy ones.
^ Fantastic model... it doesn't need to have hands 4x times bigger or a bloated torso with the head coming out of the centre, it doesn't need to have a 6 foot axe with a 4 foot blade in each hand to make it look good... it's just a good sculpt, plain and simple.
Of course, Dakka complained *endlessly* about the KoW Orcs when they were released, saying they looked stupid all because there was one head on the sprue that didn't look very good. Mantic painted the armour blue at first which was a terrible idea, but that didn't mean the sculpts were bad.
Anyone who complained about that back then (and I don't mean you, azazel, I know you're fine with the more truescale stuff), or anyone who has complained at length about "Mantic minis too skinny, the elves suck, make it all more heroic scale and more like GW" has no right to be complaining about the Marauders.
I'm wondering why they felt the need to redesign their sci-fi orcs and go heroic scale instead of the truescale that the Warpath marauders are sculpted in... I think they might possibly have looked at poor sales for the marauders and misinterpreted that as "people aren't buying them because they're not big and beefy like the GW ones" rather than the actual reason of "people aren't buying them because they're fantasy models with goggles on".
I'd really like to see the KoW style of orc in Warpath, although obviously wearing sci-fi clothing and armour instead of bare feet, animal skins and bones.
I agree that it is clearly Mantic responding to the fact that tons of people out there want them to basically be putting out 40K armies so they don't have to pay GW prices.
OK, after Squig's 6,343'rd post assuring us that only Remy was allowed to sculpt stuff for Warpath, I was wondering why they looked so awful.
That was what I'd heard, quite a while ago. It's clearly changed since then and sculptors other than Remy are now doing stuff for Warpath.
Yep, I'm in no way rubbing it in. I guess we should just be careful of what is stated as fact, since I can see you're as disappointed as many of the rest of us.
Plague 3rd Gen are non-Remy, as are the Marauders quite clearly.
Then again, the Rebs don't seem to be Remy sculpts either, so if the same person who did the marauders did the Rebs then it's clear they're capable of good sculpts, as long as they stick to the concept art properly.
On the other hand the concept art is to blame to some extent for the posing, the dancing goblin and the spread guns commando poses both appear in the concept art.
I'm not even going to blame the concept art or posing. If they were good or great sculpts, they would simply be good or great sculpts, regardless of mad posing, cartoony or comedy elements or any of the rest. Again, look at the Rackham goblins posted earlier, which are all of the above and still great sculpts.
For me, the KoW orcs are *perfect*, absolutely mean, lean, murderous looking buggers. Quite clearly huge slabs of muscle but without the 'roided out look. The heads make them look cunning/ violent/ unpredictable, a lot of them have this awesome little sneer on them, and the little touches like the ornate armour with leering faces embossed in it, little bones here and there give an overall style quite similar to D&D or the really old citadel orcs, which is brilliant. Now, you can't just use the bodies for sci-fi and expect people to buy the models because they're covered in fantasy stuff, which is why the marauders probably didn't sell well for warpath, but the overall size/pose/shape of the orc is perfect and doesn't need to be re-imagined for sci-fi, they got it right the first time when making the fantasy ones.
Of course, Dakka complained *endlessly* about the KoW Orcs when they were released, saying they looked stupid all because there was one head on the sprue that didn't look very good. Mantic painted the armour blue at first which was a terrible idea, but that didn't mean the sculpts were bad.
Anyone who complained about that back then (and I don't mean you, azazel, I know you're fine with the more truescale stuff), or anyone who has complained at length about "Mantic minis too skinny, the elves suck, make it all more heroic scale and more like GW" has no right to be complaining about the Marauders.
Speaking for myself at least, I like GW orcs/orks and I actually don't mind the Mantic take on them, either. Again, what's important is the fact that they're (mostly) well sculpted (both GW and Mantic). I would say again though that the problem with these Orx isn't that they've attempted heroic scale, but the fact that they've done it badly. I've got GW Orcs and Orks from the pre-slottabase days, RT figures through almost every change to the modern ones. With the exception to the plastic-armed 2nd edition ones, (and the Bob Olley ones!) pretty much everything sculpted by Kev Adams and Brian Nelson works for me, because they're well sculpted. The Gorka Morka orcs are clearly different to Kev's ones, and again to Brian's ones. The GM ones are not great, but they're still decent - Like the KoW/Warpath ones. Ultimately, I don't mind what scale type they go with as long as they're good sculpts.
I really hope they take the opportunity to redo them now rather than take the usual "it's just bad photos, guys!" It might be easier in the short-term, but it'll do far less good for them in the long run than getting high-quality sculpts done now. Measure twice, cut once. I suspect that they're already locked into manufacturing deadlines though, due to the way Mantic runs their KS projects.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AegisGrimm wrote: I agree that it is clearly Mantic responding to the fact that tons of people out there want them to basically be putting out 40K armies so they don't have to pay GW prices.
To be fair, that's how Mantic started off and ran for a long time, so it's no surprise to see that perception continuing...
They'd get a lot more money just by allowing faction swaps in Strike Team, regardless of any Marauder resculpts or not. Even if it was just for the basic 4, and no swaps outside of the basic 4 allowed.
I'd go 50/50 Rebs/ Enforcers and be super-happy with Mantic if that happened. Pledge-upping happy.
I know the logistics would be tricky, but it can't be that hard to add up the total no. of each starter ordered in the survey, then when packing, make up baggies containing a starter, then first put together the strike team boxes that haven't asked for changes.. then take the ones that have asked for it (probably about 30% or so, I'd imagine most will stick with the default) individually.
The other Warpath Orx, including the recent Dreadball Orx, are all Ape-like, so that part of it really shouldn't be disturbing any of the Dreadball players who were paying attention.
That's the downside to nerd-rage rants: folks complain about EVERY little thing about what they are raging about versus really sticking to what the problem(s) is.
I feel the issues are the overly comical, non-serious look, and the overall bad sculpts. The Orx were already under the micro-scope after the silly looking ranged Ripper-suit preview.
Let's just cross our fingers were about done with starting factions anyhow and can start digging into the next 2 and then the next 2. They really do look like they have quite a bit of options each at this point.
DaveC wrote: Nope Remy doesn't sculpt in Greenstuff he uses Fimo so these are very unlikely to be his sculpts.
OK, after Squig's 6,343'rd post assuring us that only Remy was allowed to sculpt stuff for Warpath, I was wondering why they looked so awful.
That was what I'd heard, quite a while ago. It's clearly changed since then and sculptors other than Remy are now doing stuff for Warpath.
Plague 3rd Gen are non-Remy, as are the Marauders quite clearly.
Then again, the Rebs don't seem to be Remy sculpts either, so if the same person who did the marauders did the Rebs then it's clear they're capable of good sculpts, as long as they stick to the concept art properly.
On the other hand the concept art is to blame to some extent for the posing, the dancing goblin and the spread guns commando poses both appear in the concept art.
For me, the KoW orcs are *perfect*, absolutely mean, lean, murderous looking buggers. Quite clearly huge slabs of muscle but without the 'roided out look. The heads make them look cunning/ violent/ unpredictable, a lot of them have this awesome little sneer on them, and the little touches like the ornate armour with leering faces embossed in it, little bones here and there give an overall style quite similar to D&D or the really old citadel orcs, which is brilliant. Now, you can't just use the bodies for sci-fi and expect people to buy the models because they're covered in fantasy stuff, which is why the marauders probably didn't sell well for warpath, but the overall size/pose/shape of the orc is perfect and doesn't need to be re-imagined for sci-fi, they got it right the first time when making the fantasy ones.
^ Fantastic model... it doesn't need to have hands 4x times bigger or a bloated torso with the head coming out of the centre, it doesn't need to have a 6 foot axe with a 4 foot blade in each hand to make it look good... it's just a good sculpt, plain and simple.
Of course, Dakka complained *endlessly* about the KoW Orcs when they were released, saying they looked stupid all because there was one head on the sprue that didn't look very good. Mantic painted the armour blue at first which was a terrible idea, but that didn't mean the sculpts were bad.
Anyone who complained about that back then (and I don't mean you, azazel, I know you're fine with the more truescale stuff), or anyone who has complained at length about "Mantic minis too skinny, the elves suck, make it all more heroic scale and more like GW" has no right to be complaining about the Marauders.
I'm wondering why they felt the need to redesign their sci-fi orcs and go heroic scale instead of the truescale that the Warpath marauders are sculpted in... I think they might possibly have looked at poor sales for the marauders and misinterpreted that as "people aren't buying them because they're not big and beefy like the GW ones" rather than the actual reason of "people aren't buying them because they're fantasy models with goggles on".
I'd really like to see the KoW style of orc in Warpath, although obviously wearing sci-fi clothing and armour instead of bare feet, animal skins and bones.
HERE HERE . I would love to see the KOW designs sci-fied into warpath.
DaveC wrote: Nope Remy doesn't sculpt in Greenstuff he uses Fimo so these are very unlikely to be his sculpts.
OK, after Squig's 6,343'rd post assuring us that only Remy was allowed to sculpt stuff for Warpath, I was wondering why they looked so awful.
That was what I'd heard, quite a while ago. It's clearly changed since then and sculptors other than Remy are now doing stuff for Warpath.
Plague 3rd Gen are non-Remy, as are the Marauders quite clearly.
Then again, the Rebs don't seem to be Remy sculpts either, so if the same person who did the marauders did the Rebs then it's clear they're capable of good sculpts, as long as they stick to the concept art properly.
On the other hand the concept art is to blame to some extent for the posing, the dancing goblin and the spread guns commando poses both appear in the concept art.
For me, the KoW orcs are *perfect*, absolutely mean, lean, murderous looking buggers. Quite clearly huge slabs of muscle but without the 'roided out look. The heads make them look cunning/ violent/ unpredictable, a lot of them have this awesome little sneer on them, and the little touches like the ornate armour with leering faces embossed in it, little bones here and there give an overall style quite similar to D&D or the really old citadel orcs, which is brilliant. Now, you can't just use the bodies for sci-fi and expect people to buy the models because they're covered in fantasy stuff, which is why the marauders probably didn't sell well for warpath, but the overall size/pose/shape of the orc is perfect and doesn't need to be re-imagined for sci-fi, they got it right the first time when making the fantasy ones.
^ Fantastic model... it doesn't need to have hands 4x times bigger or a bloated torso with the head coming out of the centre, it doesn't need to have a 6 foot axe with a 4 foot blade in each hand to make it look good... it's just a good sculpt, plain and simple.
Of course, Dakka complained *endlessly* about the KoW Orcs when they were released, saying they looked stupid all because there was one head on the sprue that didn't look very good. Mantic painted the armour blue at first which was a terrible idea, but that didn't mean the sculpts were bad.
Anyone who complained about that back then (and I don't mean you, azazel, I know you're fine with the more truescale stuff), or anyone who has complained at length about "Mantic minis too skinny, the elves suck, make it all more heroic scale and more like GW" has no right to be complaining about the Marauders.
I'm wondering why they felt the need to redesign their sci-fi orcs and go heroic scale instead of the truescale that the Warpath marauders are sculpted in... I think they might possibly have looked at poor sales for the marauders and misinterpreted that as "people aren't buying them because they're not big and beefy like the GW ones" rather than the actual reason of "people aren't buying them because they're fantasy models with goggles on".
I'd really like to see the KoW style of orc in Warpath, although obviously wearing sci-fi clothing and armour instead of bare feet, animal skins and bones.
HERE HERE . I would love to see the KOW designs sci-fied into warpath.
Tell this to Mantic in the comments of the KS... They already know something is wrong....
I mean, the general awser to the photos was "wtf?"...
DaveC wrote: Nope Remy doesn't sculpt in Greenstuff he uses Fimo so these are very unlikely to be his sculpts.
OK, after Squig's 6,343'rd post assuring us that only Remy was allowed to sculpt stuff for Warpath, I was wondering why they looked so awful.
That was what I'd heard, quite a while ago. It's clearly changed since then and sculptors other than Remy are now doing stuff for Warpath.
Plague 3rd Gen are non-Remy, as are the Marauders quite clearly.
Then again, the Rebs don't seem to be Remy sculpts either, so if the same person who did the marauders did the Rebs then it's clear they're capable of good sculpts, as long as they stick to the concept art properly.
From what was said at the open day was that Remy does not really do multipart plastic kits due to how he sculpts. But then they don't really look like plastic kits.
scarletsquig wrote: They'd get a lot more money just by allowing faction swaps in Strike Team, regardless of any Marauder resculpts or not. Even if it was just for the basic 4, and no swaps outside of the basic 4 allowed.
I'd go 50/50 Rebs/ Enforcers and be super-happy with Mantic if that happened. Pledge-upping happy.
I know the logistics would be tricky, but it can't be that hard to add up the total no. of each starter ordered in the survey, then when packing, make up baggies containing a starter, then first put together the strike team boxes that haven't asked for changes.. then take the ones that have asked for it (probably about 30% or so, I'd imagine most will stick with the default) individually.
50/50 Rebs and Enforcers would be a dream come true for me as well, they are by far the best looking sculpts and lack the cartoony aspects of the Marauders and Plague.
Might even have to venture into the comments section to ask if such a swap would be possible...
From what was said at the open day was that Remy does not really do multipart plastic kits due to how he sculpts. But then they don't really look like plastic kits.
From my talking with Ronnie, it seemed more like Remy didn't "get" multi-part-multi-option kits, and that it just works out better to have him sculpt limited bits kits.
After several years of working with sculptors, I can understand that thinking.
Might even have to venture into the comments section to ask if such a swap would be possible...
After being reassured that the BB malarkey stopped after a couple of days I checked myself and found this to be true. So could we please stop this 'argh the comments section is an evil place that we must not venture as we may catch something'. Is getting rather old chaps.
scarletsquig wrote: They'd get a lot more money just by allowing faction swaps in Strike Team, regardless of any Marauder resculpts or not. Even if it was just for the basic 4, and no swaps outside of the basic 4 allowed.
I'd go 50/50 Rebs/ Enforcers and be super-happy with Mantic if that happened. Pledge-upping happy.
I know the logistics would be tricky, but it can't be that hard to add up the total no. of each starter ordered in the survey, then when packing, make up baggies containing a starter, then first put together the strike team boxes that haven't asked for changes.. then take the ones that have asked for it (probably about 30% or so, I'd imagine most will stick with the default) individually.
That's a bit of unproven theorycraft saying "they'd get a lot more money". There are a lot of factors to consider, and I really don't want to get into it beyond saying you have no way of proving that statement.
As a backer, of course I like options, but I also understand the impact that would have on the business.
scarletsquig wrote: Just look at the amount of complaints you see about "too skinny" elves, which are in fact perfectly in proportion... that's one reason why Mantic is going more heroic-scale with their sculpting, due to feedback on forums such as these.
No, they are not perfectly in proportion. And I say that as someone who has spent far more time in the past decade drawing and painting pictures of people in true scale than I have working on 28mm miniatures.
scarletsquig wrote: allowing faction swaps in Strike Team, regardless of any Marauder resculpts or not. Even if it was just for the basic 4, and no swaps outside of the basic 4 allowed.
I'd go 50/50 Rebs/ Enforcers and be super-happy with Mantic if that happened. Pledge-upping happy.
THIS. With the exact same breakdown.
I'd even pay for the big spiky mutant guy as an add-on, since he's the only one of that faction that appeals.
Might even have to venture into the comments section to ask if such a swap would be possible...
After being reassured that the BB malarkey stopped after a couple of days I checked myself and found this to be true. So could we please stop this 'argh the comments section is an evil place that we must not venture as we may catch something'. Is getting rather old chaps.
Comments sections of kickstarters are just not a place I wish to spend my online time. The layout is horrible as is the noise/signal ratio. Official game forums are often way too skewed by sycophants and those who would troll them, so I avoid those as well. I prefer moderated forums like this one.
Apologies about video, it's apparently been 7 years since I uploaded anything to youtube and had no idea you could even make something private. Should be sorted now:
From what was said at the open day was that Remy does not really do multipart plastic kits due to how he sculpts. But then they don't really look like plastic kits.
From my talking with Ronnie, it seemed more like Remy didn't "get" multi-part-multi-option kits, and that it just works out better to have him sculpt limited bits kits.
After several years of working with sculptors, I can understand that thinking.
With the greatest respect to Riquiende (and thanks so much for taking the shots that you did!) but are there any better shots of the marauders than this?
Might have been good timing now for Mantic to show some promotion-type shots. Not excusing the quality of the models, whatever you may think of them and their concept, but it would be interesting to see a larger collection of some better photos.
scarletsquig wrote: Just look at the amount of complaints you see about "too skinny" elves, which are in fact perfectly in proportion... that's one reason why Mantic is going more heroic-scale with their sculpting, due to feedback on forums such as these.
No, they are not perfectly in proportion. And I say that as someone who has spent far more time in the past decade drawing and painting pictures of people in true scale than I have working on 28mm miniatures.
Funny, guys, arguing over the perfect proportions of an elf
From what was said at the open day was that Remy does not really do multipart plastic kits due to how he sculpts. But then they don't really look like plastic kits.
From my talking with Ronnie, it seemed more like Remy didn't "get" multi-part-multi-option kits, and that it just works out better to have him sculpt limited bits kits.
After several years of working with sculptors, I can understand that thinking.
What do you mean by "get" and "that thinking"?
Quite simple really, multipart models need to be blunt, not really smooth and segmented in such a way that many different parts can be stuck in them, if a sculptor wants to create a fluid characterful sculpt, or is stuck in that mindset, well, he cannot produce multipart models.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pacific wrote: With the greatest respect to Riquiende (and thanks so much for taking the shots that you did!) but are there any better shots of the marauders than this?
Ripper suits look great - but I honestly never have found any appeal to sci-fi orcs.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Riquende wrote: Apologies about video, it's apparently been 7 years since I uploaded anything to youtube and had no idea you could even make something private. Should be sorted now:
Thanks for posting.
The logistics for the mats is interesting - might help people realise the limitations on small model companies.
From what was said at the open day was that Remy does not really do multipart plastic kits due to how he sculpts. But then they don't really look like plastic kits.
From my talking with Ronnie, it seemed more like Remy didn't "get" multi-part-multi-option kits, and that it just works out better to have him sculpt limited bits kits.
After several years of working with sculptors, I can understand that thinking.
What do you mean by "get" and "that thinking"?
Quite simple really, multipart models need to be blunt, not really smooth and segmented in such a way that many different parts can be stuck in them, if a sculptor wants to create a fluid characterful sculpt, or is stuck in that mindset, well, he cannot produce multipart models.
As a sculptor I'm quite familiar with the differences mate... and so are the majority of any competent sculptor in the biz... thats why I don't understand the claim of "didn't get", " that thinking" and now " stuck in that mindset"...
My question was also aiming to the comment of "after several years of working with sculptors"... What does that mean? most sculptors dont "get" multipart?????
I hope that it's just me not reading this right because atm looks quite a depreciative way to address sculptors and in this case one of the best in the world ( remy)
I can tell you this much talented sculptors are always too busy to take most projects and they do select what they prefer or is better payed etc... That is different from not understanding multipart process.
Citizen Jael had read all of the reports – colossal abominations, mutated aliens and rumours of supersoldiers executing civilians. He had hoped that the Enforcers would quarantine the area in Nicorasi on the south coast but the disease was virulent and intel was coming in suggesting the outbreak was more widespread than first thought. Jael looked up at the Laser Cannon Engineer Talbot had installed and over to the defence lines being erected. He hoped it would be enough.
If we hit this goal we will fund the Fortifications BattleZone – a new Buildings Sprue that contains enough components to build a defence line, including the mighty Laser Cannon and Large Gate, and add reinforcements to your Core Worlds BattleZone. These components will allow you to further militarise your gaming table in preparation for the oncoming Plague onslaught and defend against the raiding Rebs and Marauder Forces!
Sample Concept Art:
The Fortifications BattleZone contains 3 Buildings Sprue of approximately 6 tiles and 1 Connector Sprue.
By hitting this goal you will:
- Unlock the Fortifications as one of your choices if you have pledged for the Urban Fight ($25), Urban Skirmish ($50), Urban Battle ($95) or Urban War ($185) scenery
What's next?
A new mercenary is coming and then, could it be? New Factions? Just maybe!
I'm guessing that Cyporiean is just saying some sculptors are more comfortable working on figures mono-pose
(which will allow the most freedom to create the 'perfect' look based on what's in their mind or in the art provided by the client)
while others find it easier to make the compromises to their vision that will allow them to produce figures where you can swap in/out various legs/arms/heads
As an outstandingly talented sculptor Remy (I see no sing of Cyp implying he's not) will be in a position where he can sign a contract where he gets to work more in a way he prefers rather than accepting any work he's offered
(of cource this is only my take on what's been said)
Remy does do multi-pose hard plastic, both the KoW men-at-arms and upcoming hard plastic enforcers were sculpted by him, then digitally scanned and finished off by Mantic's 3d sculptor.
As for the "Allowing us to pick Strike Team factions would be impossible for Mantic's logistics" suggestion... well, that's not really accurate, barring some kind of strange pre-arranged agreement with China to pre-pack all the strike team stuff in China. All of the previous Mantic KS's have been packed in the UK.
The Loka Kickstarter had 4 factions in its sweet spot pledge level, and you could pick and choose which ones you wanted, and double-up on them if you wanted.
In this kickstarter, the terrain pledge levels allow you to "pick and mix" any battlezones you want out of a choice of 6-8 ones that they have planned in the long run.
It'd be a little extra work, but not a huge amount (I've spent a good number of months doing pick & pack warehouse work myself, so I do know what's involved), and certainly within the realms of possibility.
In dreadball, it was all supposed to be in a shrink-wrapped box coming from china, but with this, we're not getting any kind of "game box" edition in our pledges at all, it's all a bunch of separate starters.
Even with the new Marauder pictures, I would still rather play this game using my GW Orks as troops combined with the actual Mantic Ripper suit. The ripper suit is all kinds of awesome next to a GW mega-armor Ork. The Kromlech one is cool, too, but I like the clean look of the Ripper suit.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I'm guessing that Cyporiean is just saying some sculptors are more comfortable working on figures mono-pose
(which will allow the most freedom to create the 'perfect' look based on what's in their mind or in the art provided by the client)
while others find it easier to make the compromises to their vision that will allow them to produce figures where you can swap in/out various legs/arms/heads
As an outstandingly talented sculptor Remy (I see no sing of Cyp implying he's not) will be in a position where he can sign a contract where he gets to work more in a way he prefers rather than accepting any work he's offered
(of cource this is only my take on what's been said)
Yeah, basically this.
Every sculptor has their strengths and weaknesses, and its better to assign tasks based on that. From my talking with Ronnie it seemed like there was a lot of needing to go back to Remy with corrections when trying to get him to do multi-option kits, and less when having him do mono-pose/low bits kits.
From what was said at the open day was that Remy does not really do multipart plastic kits due to how he sculpts. But then they don't really look like plastic kits.
That is just silly. Seriously. I hope that's not true.
Cyporean wrote:
From my talking with Ronnie, it seemed more like Remy didn't "get" multi-part-multi-option kits, and that it just works out better to have him sculpt limited bits kits.
After several years of working with sculptors, I can understand that thinking.
Classy, really classy. I will drop this since its not my beef but bloody hell if its not poor form to dump this kind of info to third parties and then they drop it on a forum...
Let me just say that Remy is the best thing that happened to mantic because most that is not done by him is errr average at best.
Remy did bring one thing that was missing in mantic and that is quality! To blame him for being not competent at multipart, specially looking at those enforcers etc, got to be a joke!
Ronnie even mentions it in the video on the previous page here skip to 38 minutes to hear for yourself. Remy is one of my favourite sculptors he does some truly great work if it wasn't for him I wouldn't have gone near Mantic.
Wow, those Orxs are...disappointing, to say the least. The rest of the line is looking pretty good, so I really can't understand how those Orxs managed to pass muster with Mantic.
DaveC wrote: Ronnie even mentions it in the video on the previous page here skip to 38 minutes to hear for yourself. Remy is one of my favourite sculptors he does some truly great work if it wasn't for him I wouldn't have gone near Mantic.
Yeah Ronnie really talks to much... not professional and total lack of courtesy towards his own collaborators...
Hope Remy does not picks that up since it's not his main language and keeps on going... its a case of mantic needing him more than he needs them.
NAVARRO wrote: Classy, really classy. I will drop this since its not my beef but bloody hell if its not poor form to dump this kind of info to third parties and then they drop it on a forum...
Let me just say that Remy is the best thing that happened to mantic because most that is not done by him is errr average at best.
Remy did bring one thing that was missing in mantic and that is quality! To blame him for being not competent at multipart, specially looking at those enforcers etc, got to be a joke!
I find it less classy for you to be dropping slightly veiled insults at folks for discussing a company and an artist who are putting things out to the public both for review and sale. Please feel free to PM me if you want to discuss more.
I agree that Remy is the best thing, sculptor-wise, to happen to Mantic. He is supremely talented. No question there. They need an art director, in my opinion (provided they don't have one, that is). Someone who can keep all of the various creative types on the same track. A single, strong vision.
I find it silly because to not have him try to improve at his weaknesses is folly. I don't know that he isn't though, so I will qualify my statements by saying that it is silly if it is true. Also, they may be working to address that by using the digital scan and modify process. Time will tell I guess.
Hope we get some new pictures soon for the existing sculpts. Maybe they will help with people's opinions of the Marauders.
Yeah Ronnie really talks to much... not professional and total lack of courtesy towards his own collaborators...
Hope Remy does not picks that up since it's not his main language and keeps on going... its a case of mantic needing him more than he needs them.
Poor show Mr Ronnie.
He uses words such as astounding to describe remy's work. not really a lack of courtesy... What he's saying is that mantic use Remy that suits his strengths and that's how we got three or the four starting teams for Dreadball. his sculpts and fantastic but his multipart stuff really does only go together one way like the veer-myn nightcrawlers. why cut the heads off? the guns only go together one way and it blocks the other head. the enforcers waists don't turn because there oval rather than circular. true posibility would have meant they were circular. take a look at the cat lord though or the 1st gen and they are beautiful models because he can make the model he wants.
youre right of course, remy and there other french sculptor who did the vermyn team add some real quality. the rebs were done by the same guy as the guy who did john doe and the nameless so there are other quality sculptors on the line too, some hit and miss guys as well no denying. Remy is fantastic and I think Ronnie is just telling the truth but I think in a professional manner. these seminars are a way to find out behind the scenes information I think its great the company can be so honest.
Remy does do multi-pose hard plastic, both the KoW men-at-arms and upcoming hard plastic enforcers were sculpted by him, then digitally scanned and finished off by Mantic's 3d sculptor.
As for the "Allowing us to pick Strike Team factions would be impossible for Mantic's logistics" suggestion... well, that's not really accurate, barring some kind of strange pre-arranged agreement with China to pre-pack all the strike team stuff in China. All of the previous Mantic KS's have been packed in the UK.
The Loka Kickstarter had 4 factions in its sweet spot pledge level, and you could pick and choose which ones you wanted, and double-up on them if you wanted.
In this kickstarter, the terrain pledge levels allow you to "pick and mix" any battlezones you want out of a choice of 6-8 ones that they have planned in the long run.
It'd be a little extra work, but not a huge amount (I've spent a good number of months doing pick & pack warehouse work myself, so I do know what's involved), and certainly within the realms of possibility.
In dreadball, it was all supposed to be in a shrink-wrapped box coming from china, but with this, we're not getting any kind of "game box" edition in our pledges at all, it's all a bunch of separate starters.
not when it's a core pledge though. can you imagine having to break down and track nearly 2500 order and who wants which combination and make sure that goes to the right person? think of all of the permeatations. absolute nightmare job. lokas fine because its a small print run. also im sure mantic want economies of scale and the cost benefits of doing an efficient job. more time would be needed on the packing line for the changes in setup potentially meaning more days and higher wage bills. did i read that the entire office was down in the warehouse? think of the opportunity cost of those guys not doing there day jobs... trade sales, web sales, marketing, sending orders out to retailers.
i suspect packing will be similar to sedition wars in that you get a core box that will be released to retailers say enforcers and plague and then a separate box with the bonuses from recon and strike team packed into them. that's how i'd do it anyway.
EDIT: also he sculpted 1 static men at arms plus weapons and heads. according to stew this was scanned into a computer and made into five poses with the gaps filled in by the 3d guy.
Em, I find nothing bad in what Ronnie said he praised quite well Remy for his exceptional work in single pose models.
Ok he does not do multipart (actually they should be called multiposed) models, big deal, so much the better in my opinion, multiposed models are a real waste of talent.
@BN: I didn't say it'd be easy, I did say it'd be possible, and that it would be good.
I have personally packed over 200 boxes in a 10-hour shift while doing warehouse work, and that's with all sorts of different stuff going in the boxes. Given a week in the warehouse I'm pretty sure I could handle 1000 backers easy, regardless of whether it's 1 order code or 4 going in each strike team set. Might need to overtime it a bit, but it's not all that difficult as long as you can keep your mind sharp for that long and there's highly efficient line management in place.
Another idea: Allow swap-outs, but add a $10 surcharge to anyone who wants to do this. I'd still go for it! Then you'd have a smaller number of packages to deal with swap-outs on and more than adequate compensation for the extra work involved.
I dunno, a bit more of a "can do" attitude would be good to see as far as this goes. Hire more staff if the warehouse is understaffed, taking people out of offices is an inefficient use of their skillsets.
I can see why this would be difficult for a small company like Mantic that doesn't have an aircraft-hangar sized warehouse operation and has to deal with massive spikes in what it has to get shipped during kickstarter shipment months (meaning temp staff who aren't familiar with the product which leads to higher error rates), but it should be seen as a challenge and a good chance to improve, rather than something to shy away from as "too difficult". Mantic is actually really good at punching above its weight when it gets down to the business end of things, dreadball kickstarter done by any other company would have been several months late with all the manufacturing delays it suffered, but Mantic got it sorted on time, because the staff are totally determined and commited.
I can imagine that things might get similarly mixed for future Warpath starter-sets. Remy does (some) mono-pose specialists and perhaps elements of the multi-part miniatures, perhaps heads or armour-plates, while other guys may do other bits and pieces (weapons? multi-pose limbs).
I kinda doubt that Remy would be totally out of the loop there, just because he doesn't do the whole things start-to-finish all by himself.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Em, I find nothing bad in what Ronnie said he praised quite well Remy for his exceptional work in single pose models.
Ok he does not do multipart (actually they should be called multiposed) models, big deal, so much the better in my opinion, multiposed models are a real waste of talent.
I agree. There is a certain.....static/stale look that accompanies models with interchangeable poses. Some of my favorite GW models of late have been from their boxed sets like the Ellyrian Reavers and the bulk of the Chaos models.
You do gain something by having a model in a fixed position.
NAVARRO wrote: Classy, really classy. I will drop this since its not my beef but bloody hell if its not poor form to dump this kind of info to third parties and then they drop it on a forum...
Let me just say that Remy is the best thing that happened to mantic because most that is not done by him is errr average at best.
Remy did bring one thing that was missing in mantic and that is quality! To blame him for being not competent at multipart, specially looking at those enforcers etc, got to be a joke!
I find it less classy for you to be dropping slightly veiled insults at folks for discussing a company and an artist who are putting things out to the public both for review and sale. Please feel free to PM me if you want to discuss more.
~Eric
What? Insults at folks? I only commented Ronnie comment ( as unpolite, lack of courtesy, unprofessional, ridiculous etc) and the comment of the user Cyporiean who was cryptic at best when mentioning his wide knowledge of sculptors to back is statement that Remy did not "Get" multipart... Which I assume most sculptors he knows don't "GET" it either...
The ridiculous is that a mini Remy does not GET is light years ahead of anything Mantic has put out.
Again its not my beef but alas both are poor form, one towards Remy and the other towards sculptors in general... But hey its all in good faith so you can say whatever you like in a conference right? Wrong.
But move along and keep on slagging the few sculptors that have the patience to still be working in this industry.
Cryptic? I post a lot of cryptic things in Mantic threads and that was hardly cryptic. Just my opinion after talking shop with Ronnie. As for my wide knowledge it comes from hiring them and talking with sculptors nearly daily.
Some are better with doing multipose models, others are better at single part ones, some are dreadful with mechanical elements, and a number are horrible with communication and keeping a deadline.
Cyporiean wrote: Cryptic? I post a lot of cryptic things in Mantic threads and that was hardly cryptic. Just my opinion after talking shop with Ronnie. As for my wide knowledge it comes from hiring them and talking with sculptors nearly daily.
Some are better with doing multipose models, others are better at single part ones, some are dreadful with mechanical elements, and a number are horrible with communication and keeping a deadline.
What? Insults at folks? I only commented Ronnie comment ( as unpolite, lack of courtesy, unprofessional, ridiculous etc) and the comment of the user Cyporiean who was cryptic at best when mentioning his wide knowledge of sculptors to back is statement that Remy did not "Get" multipart... Which I assume most sculptors he knows don't "GET" it either...
My bad then. It seemed that you were aiming that at the users here.
Again its not my beef but alas both are poor form, one towards Remy and the other towards sculptors in general... But hey its all in good faith so you can say whatever you like in a conference right? Wrong.
You seem to be taking it a bit personally though.
I agree that perhaps the comments should not have been made at the conference. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that.
But move along and keep on slagging the few sculptors that have the patience to still be working in this industry.
Anyone who puts themselves or their work out to the public are de facto inviting criticism and comment. It comes with the territory. You appear to have problems with that idea. Which is a shame since you are a sculptor, and you are likely to be on the receiving end of it.
I can't say I'm a fan of the ugly turn this thread has taken in terms of the sculptor discussion.
I'll try and get things back on track by mentioning that the Dreadball backer total has been beaten, which means we're now getting an extra scenario written based around rescuing a dreadball MVP from a deadzone.
Also in the latest update comments they mention that there will be a special figure to represent the Dreadball MVP - hope it's a new or at least alternate/modified sculpt.
Ok last comment here don what to derail into offtopic but these need a reply.
Cyporiean wrote: Cryptic? I post a lot of cryptic things in Mantic threads and that was hardly cryptic. Just my opinion after talking shop with Ronnie. As for my wide knowledge it comes from hiring them and talking with sculptors nearly daily.
Some are better with doing multipose models, others are better at single part ones, some are dreadful with mechanical elements, and a number are horrible with communication and keeping a deadline.
Ah ok so it was a clear sculptors "dont get it" or "suck at X"...type of comment, nice one. For a moment I thought it was just me reading silly jabs incorrectly.
@ Taarnak "Anyone who puts themselves or their work out to the public are de facto inviting criticism and comment. It comes with the territory. You appear to have problems with that idea. Which is a shame since you are a sculptor, and you are likely to be on the receiving end of it. "
Either that or I did not express correctly or maybe you did not read with attention... maybe both... I have zero problems with anyone approaching me and say my work is cr@p, seriously you have no idea of how much worse I do see my own stuff, its not about me here... The problem I'm addressing here is another different beast... A company CEO commenting publicly the shortcomings of its own collaborators. That it's just errr a big no no. Specially when that collaborator has put Mantic on the map of interesting sculpts.
But I rest my case and no its not personal I just dont see the need to 1) Send some jabs towards a group of professionals on this thread and 2) CEO talking to much and unable to keep certain things under the professional sphere.
Might even have to venture into the comments section to ask if such a swap would be possible...
After being reassured that the BB malarkey stopped after a couple of days I checked myself and found this to be true. So could we please stop this 'argh the comments section is an evil place that we must not venture as we may catch something'. Is getting rather old chaps.
You would be wrong in saying that. The Brian Blessed cult is still in full effect, and think they're smart by not using the name, but CONSTANTLY posting about "the man himself", begging for "hawkman" model, and encouraging the other three nutters to dress like him and over-take Mantic Open-Day.
It is not a terribly fun place to post and hold meaningful discussion if you're outside their weird/sad attempt at a "cool kids club".
Think the variations in terrain are a great idea.. can see mixing and matching being quite popular, and being able to make a particular style of board.
Anything that Mantic makes that can also be used in 40K doubles it's usefullness and encourages additional sales to 40K crowd.
It also encourages people with 40K armies that want to try Warpath without buying a shiny new army first.
Deadzone got me to read Warpath 2.0.
Reading Warpath 2.0 had me repurposing some of my 40K collection to play it.
Playing Warpath 2.0 has me salivating at the idea of the Warpath Kickstarter later this year for plastic models.
In what way is that anything like a ww2 quad battery aa gun and concrete walls, erm I mean an aegis defense line?
Oh wait it's a set of walls and turret yeah I can see why that would be considered a blatant rip off GW's IP as no other armed force has ever had or will ever use a bunker and turret.
I think it is unfortunate that a simple real world concept, as is an enclosed weapon turret, brings to some people in mind GW stuff, more free thinking would not be bad.
Anything that Mantic makes that can also be used in 40K doubles it's usefullness and encourages additional sales to 40K crowd.
It also encourages people with 40K armies that want to try Warpath without buying a shiny new army first.
Deadzone got me to read Warpath 2.0.
Reading Warpath 2.0 had me repurposing some of my 40K collection to play it.
Playing Warpath 2.0 has me salivating at the idea of the Warpath Kickstarter later this year for plastic models.
Ronnie mentioned this in the video. Essentially saying what you just said and added once the intrest is there thegrest will follow.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yes it's great to have there own unique stuff as well, but if they design something that could be used in both systems then there will be more sales for Mantic
Just a quick update to give people a rough idea of "how much free stuff is there?"...
At the moment, Strike Team has $314 worth of stuff for $150, and Recon has $195 worth of stuff for $100.
So, we're at the 50% discount mark on this kickstarter already, which is pretty sweet!
And yes, Warpath 2.0 is an amazing set of rules, it has been throughly playtested with a large internet-based feedback process, so it's already "been through the mill" so to speak in terms of being thrown up on the internet, torn apart by the public, then reworked based on the feedback.
Definitely go download and read it if you haven't already. Full-colour 80-page .pdf book with all the rules, army lists and background right there.
NO!!!!! There is no place for vehicles or asymetrical designs in the game! It must be terrain only or I will cancel the pledges of an entire orphanage worth of backers.... :-p
The barricade thingy looks very useful. Double use as a generic Aegis is a nice plus for me. I just saw Tau using it on friday and it looked kinda strange. This one would have been better for example.
Has there been any talk of how everything will be sent out?
With the scientist level, which I'm assuming will be the board game edition, how will it be boxed? Flimsy Dwarf King's Hold style or chunky Fantasy Flight box style?
Which then leads in to the next question of how are the higher levels going to get packaged? In a big cardboard box with lots and lots and LOTS of various things stuffed inside?
I like me some boxes. Especially game boxes that all stack up nice and neat.
NO!!!!! There is no place for vehicles or asymetrical designs in the game! It must be terrain only or I will cancel the pledges of an entire orphanage worth of backers.... :-p
See how that sounds? :-p
That was uncalled for as I was against tanks and "heavy" vehicles and never threatened to cancel my pledge over it. So I really don't care how it sounds
Joyboozer wrote: Well if they'd just put wheels on the terrain sprues and completely change the game to be about futuristic gypsy battles, everyone would be happy.
Wait... what kind of gypsies we talking about? The ones in Dracula or the ones in Snatch?
After doing a little math breaking down the success of the first 4 days, middle stretch, last week, and last day of the Dreadball KS, comparing that to how this one has done so far in those stretches, these are my new predictions of where this will end:
Technically speaking, the canon spelling of 'cannon' has three 'n's. Any less would be non-canonical.
Fighting with canons would be extremely interesting, although I don't believe Mantic has more than one. Now, pitting GW 2nd edition against 5th edition would be a very interesting battle of canons. But a rules set that allowed both to interact would be harder to find than the hero of canon, the man they call Jayne.
Sorry, I'm finished now. This kickstarter looks more and more awesome every day- I am seriously considering how I could divert the funds to pledge. What's the going rate on plasma these days?
If you're finding it hard to find the cash, you could always pledge low now and bump it in the post-KS pledge manager. Not ideal in some ways but it still gets you in, and gets the KS a few more shekels.
Going back in the conversation a bit, I really do hope when the new factions they're hinting at come in that they'll also allow us to swap what's in the pledge. In my case that could mean a 2x-3x difference in pledge amounts.
It'd also give Mantic some good feedback on the stuff they have. In a comment section there's always going to be a lot of rage about anything even slightly off from personal expectations, so that's not very helpful. However, if they notice a lot of backers opting to skip one faction or another, it could inform them of things that might need to be tweaked prior to WarPath's KS. So while it does create more work for them to allow it, it also helps them in the long run on what they undoubtedly hope to be one of their flagship products. It's also a great deal more valid than comments since that is literally people putting their money where their mouth is, so it's not just the vocal minority having it's way.
Still waiting to see what comes down the pike before committing though.
NO!!!!! There is no place for vehicles or asymetrical designs in the game! It must be terrain only or I will cancel the pledges of an entire orphanage worth of backers.... :-p
See how that sounds? :-p
That was uncalled for as I was against tanks and "heavy" vehicles and never threatened to cancel my pledge over it. So I really don't care how it sounds
Just playing, man. :-) I don't have a stake in what does, or doesn't end up in the game... It just all looks awesome....
Compel wrote: This one does not think it is too far outside the new standards...
This one is also painting his forces in Mass Effect colour schemes and is so very happy to have Blasto join the crew.
[Moderately Impressed] Now, if only we could get an Elcor. [Disappointed] Oh well, I don't suppose that will happen. [Enthusiastically] At least new factions seem to be coming up next.
Psychedelic!
Update #35 · May 13, 2013 · 35 comments
Absolutely brilliant! That's the Fortifications BattleZone unlocked - incredible!
The Fortifications BattleZone contains 3 Buildings Sprue of approximately 6 tiles and 1 Connector Sprue.
By hitting this goal you have:
- Unlocked the Fortifications as one of your choices if you have pledged for the Urban Fight ($25), Urban Skirmish ($50), Urban Battle ($95) or Urban War ($185) scenery add-ons.
- Unlocked the Fortifications as one of your choices if you have pledged at either the One-Click Urban Battlefield ($100) or One-Click Urban Wargames Table ($285) scenery-only pledge level.
Next up!
$460,000 – Chovar Mercenary
The Chovar are among the strangest sentient creatures encountered by the GCPS, intensely telepathic creatures that bear a striking resemblance to the jellyfish of Old Earth. They exist in a shared consciousness, but despite this (or possibly because of it) they are fiercely individualistic and consequently keen to seek out new cultures and technologies. They are traditionally employed by corporations to witness important contracts, but are often sent to scientific outposts on frontier worlds where their mind-networks are capable of astounding computational feats.
A multi-tendril alien capable of computing immense calculations in seconds, having the Chovar in your ranks can only lend your squad a tactical advantage.
If we hit this goal we will be able to tool the Chovar Mercenary and make him available to add-on to your pledge for $10:
After that, we’re going to be looking at new factions…
So Forgefathers and Asterians (Spelling?) coming soon!?!?
You know the bit in Family Guy where Peter does the child-like clapping and laughing? That's me right now..
That must surely be the Forge Fathers! Really looking forward to what these guys will turn out (and intrigued whether they will follow the 'mini juggernaut' style of the Dreadball team).
Cheers for posting that video Alpharius, makes the Plague somewhat more interesting with that explanation.
I love the Mantic fantasy orcs and think they're the best orcs on the market, but I guess they didn't sell too well, so now they're trying a different direction for greenskins, more in-line with what the market expects.
This breaks my gamer-heart. I love the Mantic Orcs, and I agree, they are hands down and overwhelming the best, most evil looking Orcs on the market.
The new art direction blows.
I LOVE the Forge-Father team from Dreadball, and think they're some of the coolest dwarf miniatures i've seen, stylistically. Of all the races I hope get very direct translations to Deadzone/Warpath, they're the ones I wish for most. Fingers very much crossed.
Did you guys not see the lineart for the Forge Fathers posted earlier? They had pics of the art at Open Day. We already know what they look like. They're decked out in exoskeletons like the old Squat Terminators. I even pointed that out a page or so back.
They also mentioned in the comments that the Asterians and Forge Fathers will be paid add-ons and that there will not be faction swapping. Disappointing, but not surprising.
^ I'm kinda wondering what this means for the rest of the kickstarter now that the first 4 factions are "complete".
E.g. will future stretch goals be "free asterian mini, but only if you've bought an asterian starter as an add-on" and similar?
I'm hoping not, since it would mean a a move to a more CMoN-style kickstarter where there isn't as much value and you have to buy one mini for $10 before you get a second one for free.
If faction swap-outs were possible, that kind of thing would be a lot more palatable, since I'd ditch the Plague and Marauders and replace them with Forgefathers and Asterians in a flash.
I think you either have to offer loads of value or loads of flexibility in any given Kickstarter campaign for it to really work out.
E.g. Reaper Vampire pledge came with a ton of stuff that a lot of people won't use, but the sheer mass of minis overrided that.
Other kickstarters haven't been massively generous with freebies, but have allowed people the chance to pick their freebies, or customize what they get from their pledge levels, and that in itself has offered good value since people only end up with the minis they want.
I think there's a risk here of this offering neither, if we're set for the next $300k or so of stretch primarily being composed of "free minis for forgefather/asterian backers only" stretches.
They may start doing stretches as a grab-bag of minis. Maybe one or two Mercs and some FF/Asterian upgrades. The Mercs (and add-on versions of the latter) being paid upgrades helps to subsidize free upgrades to starters, and it wouldn't be a wash for those not getting FF/Asterians. Either that or maybe the initial FF and Asterian starters will begin more "complete" than the others. I guess we'll see once we hit the current stretch and see what lies ahead.
Well, I did my duty and gave feedback on the Orx, and got the "your feedback is noted and we really do appreciate you taking the time to tell us Hopefully the actual photos of the models will be more to your liking " response.
Sad to hear about the Orx. If the Forge Fathers are add-on only it could actually lead to me cancelling the strike pledge (naturally much closer to the conclusion) and purchasing what I want.
As it stands I like the Rebels, I'm ok with the Plague and Enforcers, and loathe the Orx. So the value for me right now is basically the Rebels and the Terrain (of which there is a $85 value total). Now some of the Enforcer stuff is pretty cool so let's add that in at $35 more. So you're up to $120 which means just $30 for two more factions (one that isn't turning out well at all), a cool playing matt, the Survivor, and some misc. gaming stuff. Right now it's ok. But the value might not be there if I'm suddenly deciding between faction specific stuff I'm interested in.
Oddly enough if they let us swap out for what we wanted I'd probably go with Assault Team in a heartbeat. Guess we'll see.
Hulksmash wrote: Sad to hear about the Orx. If the Forge Fathers are add-on only it could actually lead to me cancelling the strike pledge (naturally much closer to the conclusion) and purchasing what I want.
As it stands I like the Rebels, I'm ok with the Plague and Enforcers, and loathe the Orx. So the value for me right now is basically the Rebels and the Terrain (of which there is a $85 value total). Now some of the Enforcer stuff is pretty cool so let's add that in at $35 more. So you're up to $120 which means just $30 for two more factions (one that isn't turning out well at all), a cool playing matt, the Survivor, and some misc. gaming stuff. Right now it's ok. But the value might not be there if I'm suddenly deciding between faction specific stuff I'm interested in.
Oddly enough if they let us swap out for what we wanted I'd probably go with Assault Team in a heartbeat. Guess we'll see.
That is a good point Hulk, and I think I'd be joining you there if they allow us to do this!
I imagine the upgrades will still give a free mini every one and a while, but probably every 50k or so. Actually....this is probably a good point to add free terrain for stretches. Over a $50k area, they could have an addition to the new race, the addition of a battleground, and the addition of a terrain sprue. Add a bit of spice with some paid mercs and the odd free merc, and it looks like a good mix. Certainly doesn't compare to the KoW or dreadball KS, but it's could still provide good value.
One thing that the current setup may make possible is for all of the basic pledges to be completed in a single shipment.
I bet mantic could increase pledges considerably by saying that assault team (and higher multiples of strike team) lets you pick any 8 factions (including duplicates) rather than just being double of strike team. Let people make warpath armies, etc..
@Decker - I believe that's what their going for. People don't realize how taxing a Striker bundle really was/is when you factor in it's still has another shipment to send out even to those that just stuck with a $150 pledge. So factor in shipping x3. I don't see them going past two shipments on this one, at least on the package bundles. Everything pasted shipment #2 will be add-on
I'm pleased to be getting something that is clearly not humanoid. Hell, it isn't even insectoid. As far as miniature gaming goes, I think that might actually be fairly unique. I can't recall any other games that let you use flying jellyfish in combat.
Regarding freebie/upgrades for factions, I'm still quite certain we haven't receied everything yet. By now, we've received every Enforcer that's shown up in various photos and artwork except for one. That's the one with the powerfist. He's the only one missing. So, I suspect we will have at least one more basic faction upgrade. I'm hoping though that either the Forge Fathers & Asterians come with everything unlocked from the get-go, or that they have some unlocks that get included free even if you don't purchase their starters. Enough free figures included from both factions to let you field small forces of them without actually having to purchase the starters would be kind of cool.
With Kow and DB you got freebies when they hit the certain stretch goal lvl, for example: Free Angel at certain pledge lvl and 3 at a higher pledge, 2 players from each team when they were funded. The tokens have yet to be upgraded, I asked if we were going to get a acrylic tokens streach goal in the seminar and was told yes but they may look at 3D resin tokens. Maybe upgrading the rulebook to hardback? start to fund the 1st expansion I.e Swarm Deadzone (Zz'or), Infested Deadzone (Ver'myn). They could actually just add more of the same figures to each set. If the pot gets bigger then whats to stop them adding bew stuff like specific new leader's, a support Enforcer commander. An Orx boss in Ripper suit. The possibility is almost endless.
I've never wanted "some of every faction" which is part of the reason why I think Mantic's campaigns have never appealed to me. I want a lot of one faction, for almost any game I play as a general rule... not a little bit of each.
scarletsquig wrote: ^ I'm kinda wondering what this means for the rest of the kickstarter now that the first 4 factions are "complete".
E.g. will future stretch goals be "free asterian mini, but only if you've bought an asterian starter as an add-on" and similar?
I'm hoping not, since it would mean a a move to a more CMoN-style kickstarter where there isn't as much value and you have to buy one mini for $10 before you get a second one for free.
If faction swap-outs were possible, that kind of thing would be a lot more palatable, since I'd ditch the Plague and Marauders and replace them with Forgefathers and Asterians in a flash.
I think you either have to offer loads of value or loads of flexibility in any given Kickstarter campaign for it to really work out.
E.g. Reaper Vampire pledge came with a ton of stuff that a lot of people won't use, but the sheer mass of minis overrided that.
Other kickstarters haven't been massively generous with freebies, but have allowed people the chance to pick their freebies, or customize what they get from their pledge levels, and that in itself has offered good value since people only end up with the minis they want.
I think there's a risk here of this offering neither, if we're set for the next $300k or so of stretch primarily being composed of "free minis for forgefather/asterian backers only" stretches.
I love Mantic games, and have for some time, but am late to their whole Kickstarters. I've heard them spoken of in hushed-tones as value-laden as hell, etc... To be honest, i'm not sure i'm seeing it thus far. YES, someone will pull up a graphic explaining how you get "X" dollars of freebies already at "Y" tier.... but I heard about famously high volumes of minis, etc... Considering my Orx stand to be turds that get chopped up for bits, I actually feel like the added freebies so far just kind of put me back at, "Ok... we're cool."
I'm still sitting on about a $400 pledge... but had the weird realization that I would enjoy this more, AND likely spent more, if this were two Kickstarters. I'm in half for terrain, and half for the game, but both being desired by me for somewhat different reasons, it just feels like several half-Kick-starts. :-p
You know how a lot of you guys in this thread have said "I have an idea/ suggestion, but I'm not going anywhere near the comments section because I'll get shouted down by a dozen people with brian blessed avatars" ...?
Hi first post long time lurker, ive been on the dz comments from day one and it seems recently to have become very negative towards any criticism or alternative suggestion. In particular there seems to be an instance that bringing up any issues you have are damaging to the ks and should not be voiced.
Is this usual for ks, ive never experienced this before?
This KS has a weird comments section. No amount of negative posting is going to have the negative effect that the Brian Blessed spamming has on the overall experience. TBH, where I usually read most KS comments, I pretty much avoid the comments on this KS.
To be honest ive had a bit of fun with the brian comments at the start even having a bb avatar but I changed it last week after people started to get fed up with it.
A little bit of light hearted fun is fine but I agree I shouldnt dominate the comments section.
The problem at the mo is nobody is will to let you discuss the orx figures any comments are instantly shot down and told to go away. I was really excited by the concept art but I feel the figs dont live up to it
I fully expect the Marauders I receive to be ones shown on Saturday no changes.
I've dipped in and out of the comments but I find myself reading them less and less recently and then to just pick out Mantic's own posts to see what's going on that said this is no Rivet Wars comment section that was truly terrible.
Got my Dreadball wave 2 stuff today very nice it is to some of the official paint jobs don't do the miniatures justice that said what they said about sorting the issues with the first wave miniatures castings from what I've seen they are pretty much the same as before mostly OK some bad flash here and there though and I've had to hot water treat all of my Void Sirens to make them stand correctly.
edlowe wrote: Hi first post long time lurker, ive been on the dz comments from day one and it seems recently to have become very negative towards any criticism or alternative suggestion. In particular there seems to be an instance that bringing up any issues you have are damaging to the ks and should not be voiced.
Is this usual for ks, ive never experienced this before?
Hi Ed, glad to see one of the voices of reason here.
It can happen with kickstarter, most often in the middle of a campaign when things are naturally slower and people who are heavily invested in wanting it to succeed are keen to stamp out anything "negative" as they feel it will put people off of pledging.
IMO, the arguing is often a bigger problem than the criticism itself, so I'm going to leave the comments section alone for any suggestion and just message Mantic if I feel the need to mention something. Otherwise you get the situation you can currently see over there with 10x more complaints about people complaining about complaints (and variations on that kind of noise) than the (often polite and succinct) criticism that started it all.
There's quite a lot of people in this thread (judgedoug etc.) who already had this figured out.
Thanks scarletsquig!
The stupid thing is there are a lot of things mantic have got spot on. I love the plague figures and the helfather merc, not so keen on the giant jellyfish but heh I dont have to buy it.
The problem is I have to have the orx since im taking a strike pledge. I would much rather swap them out for more plague or astarians.
I was thinking more of the dudes that float around in Mass Effect, with the echoey voices!
Although, 'alien jellyfish thing' has been a sci-fi trope for some time, I wouldn't be surprised to see some floating around in some cheesy 60's B-movie!
Interesting to see what the 'improved tactics' element might be, regarding the use of the model in the game..
the hanar from masseffect, and i love mantics twist, hanar meets enslaver. hanar are mostly peaceful, enslavers are power hungry, so mantics beast must be completely indifferent. lol
Yes... to those who asked, KS'er comments are often that bad... generally when the hardest core of the fanboys claim the space as their own personal blog.
Luckily, here we're kept to a higher standard of civility where we can disagree... but have a real conversation about why.
Deadzone's comments section is particularly bad because several folks have claimed the space, and those people happen to have formed a weird solidarity. The result is a brick-wall any counter opinion has to bump against.
I disagree that the comments are the wrong place to have the debates though. People act as if raising as much money as possible is our principle goal as backers. I see how it can be confusing as our winfall CAN align with Mantics... but make no mistake... we are potential investors. I WANT to see Mantic do well, hit stretch-goals, etc... as I happen to gain... but they still have to prove their product to me as an investor, and I in turn should be able to voice concerns... be they about ugly Orx, or whatever.
Problem is, the aforementioned will not let comments be, where they might potentially help shape/improve the product, but instead turn everything into a fight, which yes... just serves to scare off others.
While I've only got extensive experience in a single Kickstarter, it seems to me that the individual update comments are less dominated by Kickstarter Paris Hiltons/Kardashians than the general ones. Is that true for Deadzone?
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Yes... to those who asked, KS'er comments are often that bad... generally when the hardest core of the fanboys claim the space as their own personal blog.
Luckily, here we're kept to a higher standard of civility where we can disagree... but have a real conversation about why.
Deadzone's comments section is particularly bad because several folks have claimed the space, and those people happen to have formed a weird solidarity. The result is a brick-wall any counter opinion has to bump against.
I disagree that the comments are the wrong place to have the debates though. People act as if raising as much money as possible is our principle goal as backers. I see how it can be confusing as our winfall CAN align with Mantics... but make no mistake... we are potential investors. I WANT to see Mantic do well, hit stretch-goals, etc... as I happen to gain... but they still have to prove their product to me as an investor, and I in turn should be able to voice concerns... be they about ugly Orx, or whatever.
Problem is, the aforementioned will not let comments be, where they might potentially help shape/improve the product, but instead turn everything into a fight, which yes... just serves to scare off others.
The reason why that comments section is a bad place for lengthy debates is because of how awful the organization is for the comments. Squig's whole "someone ran me off when I tried to voice an opinion" was less actually running her off and more "Mantic just said that's not gonna happen". At that point, you're best served to e-mail Mantic directly and plead your case, otherwise Mantic's actual post gets more and more buried.
And I don't see why folks are so afraid to say "Hey guys. The hockey discussion is making it harder for me to find solid information from Mantic. Can we try to keep it to a minimum?" That's not out of line. Complaining about the comments section has, in essence, made this thread about as bad to find discussion about the ACTUAL game and KS difficult in and of itself. In order to prevent infringing on others freedom of speech, many here instead infring on their own. It really is a silly comcept
warboss wrote: While I've only got extensive experience in a single Kickstarter, it seems to me that the individual update comments are less dominated by Kickstarter Paris Hiltons/Kardashians than the general ones. Is that true for Deadzone?
You realize that in the Robotech one there's a guy with 10% of the total comments. He's also one of the most useless posters in there.
That's impressive considering there's almost 28000 comments.
In most KS comments section, there's always that one guy....
timetowaste85 wrote: I can't believe I'm one of the few who really likes the Orx. I want them to stay as they are. But, as always, differing opinions.
I'm waiting to see some better photos of the things, but 90 Degree Arm Bend Man is pretty awkward, and Dancing Monkey Sniper is hard to get out of my head.
Got my Dreadball wave 2 stuff today very nice it is to some of the official paint jobs don't do the miniatures justice that said what they said about sorting the issues with the first wave miniatures castings from what I've seen they are pretty much the same as before mostly OK some bad flash here and there though and I've had to hot water treat all of my Void Sirens to make them stand correctly.
Dear god, I hope this is not the case. I will be super disappointed if I have to re-sculpt detail because the flash is so thick that it damages the model and the mold lines are in bad locations.
Did they twist and yank the models off the sprue leaving plastic damage or snip them cleanly?
warboss wrote: While I've only got extensive experience in a single Kickstarter, it seems to me that the individual update comments are less dominated by Kickstarter Paris Hiltons/Kardashians than the general ones. Is that true for Deadzone?
You realize that in the Robotech one there's a guy with 10% of the total comments. He's also one of the most useless posters in there.
That's impressive considering there's almost 28000 comments.
In most KS comments section, there's always that one guy....
Definitely. It's hard to not see his comments and he would be a prime example of the Kardashian type I was referring to (the other being Bad_Syntax aka Eric Smith who pulled his 2k pledge one night because people were mean to him and then came back after changing his username). It sounds like the actor cult of whatshisname (the "other" annoying gungan) fills that role in deadzone.
warboss wrote: While I've only got extensive experience in a single Kickstarter, it seems to me that the individual update comments are less dominated by Kickstarter Paris Hiltons/Kardashians than the general ones. Is that true for Deadzone?
You realize that in the Robotech one there's a guy with 10% of the total comments. He's also one of the most useless posters in there.
That's impressive considering there's almost 28000 comments.
In most KS comments section, there's always that one guy....
Definitely. It's hard to not see his comments and he would be a prime example of the Kardashian type I was referring to (the other being Bad_Syntax aka Eric Smith who pulled his 2k pledge one night because people were mean to him and then came back after changing his username). It sounds like the actor cult of whatshisname (the "other" annoying gungan) fills that role in deadzone.
I personally have NO idea how that KS is doing as well as it is, but that is a derailment.
WWX had a few guys who BS a bit too much, and just a few folks asking them to chill did the trick. It really doesnt hurt to ask
warboss wrote: While I've only got extensive experience in a single Kickstarter, it seems to me that the individual update comments are less dominated by Kickstarter Paris Hiltons/Kardashians than the general ones. Is that true for Deadzone?
You realize that in the Robotech one there's a guy with 10% of the total comments. He's also one of the most useless posters in there.
That's impressive considering there's almost 28000 comments.
In most KS comments section, there's always that one guy....
YUP. and that dude also disseminates a lot of wrong info.
RiTides wrote: I've never wanted "some of every faction" which is part of the reason why I think Mantic's campaigns have never appealed to me. I want a lot of one faction, for almost any game I play as a general rule... not a little bit of each.
I think its a great idea, lets you sample models before buying. Then again you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all the time. This is perfectly apt with KS.
I've pledging on Deadzone and have been following the KS comments and Mantic forums. It seems people here are a bit more open, so I thought I'd give it a go.
First, hats off to Scarletsquig for making reasoned, informed suggestions on the KS thread.
If Mantic fail to crack 1 million - something that once seemed impossible - it will be because they didn't price their product attractively enough. In business, when your hot item isn't selling as hotly as you'd like, that usually means you priced it wrong. Current pledgers, content or not, are not the issue. It's the people sitting on the sidelines that have to be convinced, and evidently a fair number of them don't yet find the Deadzone pledge deals good enough to jump aboard. You can't sell the game to those people by arguing the point. All you can do is try to tempt them, and that means sweetening your current deals by lowering prices or adding more to them.
For current pledgers, on the other hand, there's no getting around the fact that the Marauders issue is a big one. I'm a first time Mantic customer. If they decide to keep the Marauders as is, I'll probably stay on anyway if the total deal is good enough, but they still won't be getting as much of my money.
Why? Because of unsold miniature add-ons. If it becomes clear that Mantic find poor quality sculpts of high quality concept drawings acceptable, then people will conclude that putting down a lot of money for figures on the basis of concept sketches is a very, very bad idea. Low pricing could offset that gamble somewhat, but Mantic's current KS add-on prices are not low. With the commando situation unresolved, it doesn't matter how much I like Heath's drawing of a Kraaw or a Marauder Hulk. I'm not buying his drawings; why should I pledge money for sculpts that may look nothing like them?
I like Mantic's ambition, their market hutzpah, and their aesthetic. I'm probably going to end up quite happy with this kickstarter. But it would be a shame to see that 1 million + mark slip through their fingers, and if they play their cards right, I see no good reason for that to happen.
^ Welcome to the forums, Vermonter - great first post.
As for wondering if it'll be good value... it will be, eventually.
I'd put a safe bet on ~100+ minis for $150 by the time this ends, or 70% overall discount (we're already at 50%).. both KoW and Dreadball finished at this sum.
Mantic are pretty heavily committed to actually using KS money purely for tooling and manufacture, it is genuinely about creating as many new minis as possible.
It's possible that their pricing was too high off the bat, though, the starting offer of 6 minis for $40 required a lot of stretch goal freebies before it started looking like a good deal, and a lot of early birds that jumped in purely on the notion of "expected value" might be getting itchy fingers at this point since we've had 2 non-freebie goals in a row now, and Mantic have said that the next 1-2 stretch goals (new faction starters) will not be freebies either.
I'm quite surprised that Mantic doesn't have Warpath 2.0 lists for all the minis in all 4 factions already live + heavily pimping the "buy an extra couple of starters and then you'll have an elite shock trooper army for Warpath too!" angle... there's a lot of missed potential for cross-promotion here since WP 2.0 is a very good game, and they should be shouting from the rooftops about it and how you can use your deadzone minis in this awesome game of theirs instead of not really mentioning much about it at all.
Hell, have "Elite Warpath army bundles" and whatnot as add-ons, people would lap it up. Feels like there's an obvious upsell route that isn't being taken, it's hinted at with the 6x4 board options available, but has never been explicitly stated.
The biggest thing Mantic could improve upon is instead of one-by-one goals, maybe try freebie to freebie. Having the next free model visible on the horizon is attractive to all, even if you aren't 100% enthusiastic about that particular freebie.
That's the biggest thing that hurt their retention this past day: the fear that the freebies were over.(At least of the stuff that happened yesterday specifically)
I've been watching this project like a hawk since they introduced the terrain pledge levels knowing mantic have a habit of making the end value of a pledge more appealing than the starting value. The current value is not enough to make me go in for the project, but hopefully that will improve over the next two and a half weeks. I haven't read the comments so I'm unsure if there are any intentions to add more sprues or battleones but I imagine it is on their mind with earlybird deals still available almost a week after introduction.
Though I have no interest in the game or miniatures, I agree with your sentiments on the company's standards of sculpt quality as well. I remember being wowed by the kings of war ogre concept art and let down by the greens. They are very hit and miss on their ranges right now.
I'm quite surprised that Mantic doesn't have Warpath 2.0 lists for all the minis in all 4 factions already live + heavily pimping the "buy an extra couple of starters and then you'll have an elite shock trooper army for Warpath too!" angle... there's a lot of missed potential for cross-promotion here since WP 2.0 is a very good game, and they should be shouting from the rooftops about it and how you can use your deadzone minis in this awesome game of theirs instead of not really mentioning much about it at all.
Hell, have "Elite Warpath army bundles" and whatnot as add-ons, people would lap it up. Feels like there's an obvious upsell route that isn't being taken, it's hinted at with the 6x4 board options available, but has never been explicitly stated.
Seconding this. While I like Deadzone's Alpha rules (And so does my fiance, a minor miracle in and of itself!), I absolutely love Warpath and the ability to find models or such that interest me now for WP would encourage my purchasing of add-ons. Currently, only looking at adding the original Enforcer Captain and that'll be about it barring a really phenomenal sculpt that sways me...
I've been watching this project like a hawk since they introduced the terrain pledge levels knowing mantic have a habit of making the end value of a pledge more appealing than the starting value. The current value is not enough to make me go in for the project, but hopefully that will improve over the next two and a half weeks. I haven't read the comments so I'm unsure if there are any intentions to add more sprues or battleones but I imagine it is on their mind with earlybird deals still available almost a week after introduction.
Though I have no interest in the game or miniatures, I agree with your sentiments on the company's standards of sculpt quality as well. I remember being wowed by the kings of war ogre concept art and let down by the greens. They are very hit and miss on their ranges right now.
It has been strongly implied earlier by Ronnie himself that the bigger terrain packages would get sweetened. My best guess, a different type of accessory type sprue. Maybe a specific blockade/sandbag type sprue? Maybe a good thing to suggest. Mantic is very responsive to e-mails. Drop them a line and see if you can't pry out of them what they have in store. I've gotten some great info. Or PM me if you'd like me to ask.
I'd put a safe bet on ~100+ minis for $150 by the time this ends, or 70% overall discount (we're already at 50%).. both KoW and Dreadball finished at this sum.
Mantic are pretty heavily committed to actually using KS money purely for tooling and manufacture, it is genuinely about creating as many new minis as possible.
It's possible that their pricing was too high off the bat, though, the starting offer of 6 minis for $40 required a lot of stretch goal freebies before it started looking like a good deal, and a lot of early birds that jumped in purely on the notion of "expected value" might be getting itchy fingers at this point since we've had 2 non-freebie goals in a row now, and Mantic have said that the next 1-2 stretch goals (new faction starters) will not be freebies either.
I'm just sitting on an early bird, and I only got that because it's an early bird. While I like the enforcers and rebs, there's not enough value there for me at this point, especially with the dual issue of the orcs being gak "we'll take better photos, we swears!" and the ...shall we say? ...mixed results of great concept art in the KoW stuff. Basically, I'll stay in for now, and if I drop down dramatically it'll be in the final 48 hours, but as the KS stands right now I'd pull money out before I added anymore in. Minis I'm not even interested in painting don't really add value to me. Let's see what the next 2 weeks brings, and if they decide to become a bit more flexible. I can't see them changing it up now, but they might at the 11th hour.
While I don't particularly care about sci-fi Orcs in general (though the sniper and ripper suit look good), I wouldn't swap them as I'd prefer to have the option to use them and try them in the game - whether myself or a friend.
Looking forward to more factions, variety is the spice of life!
Perfectly understandable. Squig (and I, and others) are simply after the option to do so. I've got figures I much prefer from both GW and Mantic themselves I'd much rather use than those previewed.
I find I'm struggling to get into this. I love the idea of the game, the factions and the setting,but something's missing. It just feels like an attempt to sell terrain and draw board gamers into war gaming with Warpath light.
Joyboozer wrote: I find I'm struggling to get into this. I love the idea of the game, the factions and the setting,but something's missing. It just feels like an attempt to sell terrain and draw board gamers into war gaming with Warpath light.
Well that is what it is
A fun game with plenty of potential that will (hopefully for mantic) will feed players into their main larger scale system in the same way that GWs specialist games used to.
(not to say that the game itself won't be lots of fun)
Maybe you are somebody who thrives on larger model count games? that could be while you feel a bit uneasy.
I had thought Mantic had rekindled my love of the skirmish game and I was done with larger scale war gaming. Well except for Robotech. Oh and three Tablescapes themes.
Oh god, I'm a closet war gamer!
guess we shouldnt tell you that the deadzone figures are compatible with the warpath figures effecitively meaning that you're starting your warpath army with this lot
plus you'll get enough scenery to fill those tablescapes.
deadzone figures are compatible with the warpath figures effecitively meaning that you're starting your warpath army with this lot
How can you say that when the Mauraders from Warpath have a totally different scale and anatomy than the Deadszone models...
It would be like Combining LotR Orcs with Warhammer Fantasy orcs and claiming they will be good for the same army.
Unless they make some Fluff where when Orx are young, they have normal humanoid proportions and grow up to have hands twice the size of their heads and are constantly unable to walk correctly and have an innate tendency to show off their guns opposed to hold them like actual weapons. Every 'oversized' orx sculpt mantic as right now looks like they are having a stroke, even back to the horrible warlord model.
As for wondering if it'll be good value... it will be, eventually.
I'd put a safe bet on ~100+ minis for $150 by the time this ends, or 70% overall discount (we're already at 50%).. both KoW and Dreadball finished at this sum.
While that is what KoW and Dreadball did, we don't really know if that's what Deadzone will do.
Maybe Mantic felt that they gave away too much with those campaigns?
With the disappointing Marauder miniatures shown to date, I'll have to sit down and figure out if there's a better way to get the stuff I really want/like outside of Strike Team.
Azazelx wrote: Basically, I'll stay in for now, and if I drop down dramatically it'll be in the final 48 hours, but as the KS stands right now I'd pull money out before I added anymore in.
Minis I'm not even interested in painting don't really add value to me. Let's see what the next 2 weeks brings, and if they decide to become a bit more flexible. I can't see them changing it up now, but they might at the 11th hour.
All kidding aside, I agree with you 100% on this...
deadzone figures are compatible with the warpath figures effecitively meaning that you're starting your warpath army with this lot
How can you say that when the Mauraders from Warpath have a totally different scale and anatomy than the Deadszone models...
It would be like Combining LotR Orcs with Warhammer Fantasy orcs and claiming they will be good for the same army.
Unless they make some Fluff where when Orx are young, they have normal humanoid proportions and grow up to have hands twice the size of their heads and are constantly unable to walk correctly and have an innate tendency to show off their guns opposed to hold them like actual weapons. Every 'oversized' orx sculpt mantic as right now looks like they are having a stroke, even back to the horrible warlord model.
The other alternative is that they plan on releasing new Marauder plastics in the Warpath kickstarter. And let's not pretend that there isn't companies that have kept models as stylistically different in the same line for 15 years. Look no further than the 40k Orks - compare the drivers of the gorkamorka vehicles to the rest of the line.
deadzone figures are compatible with the warpath figures effecitively meaning that you're starting your warpath army with this lot
How can you say that when the Mauraders from Warpath have a totally different scale and anatomy than the Deadszone models...
It would be like Combining LotR Orcs with Warhammer Fantasy orcs and claiming they will be good for the same army.
Except I believe mantic has already stated marauders and forgefathers would be getting new hard plastics with the WP final release KS, in all likelihood. So I'm guessing they're moving away from the KoW orcs look entirely.
As for wondering if it'll be good value... it will be, eventually.
I'd put a safe bet on ~100+ minis for $150 by the time this ends, or 70% overall discount (we're already at 50%).. both KoW and Dreadball finished at this sum.
Mantic are pretty heavily committed to actually using KS money purely for tooling and manufacture, it is genuinely about creating as many new minis as possible.
It's possible that their pricing was too high off the bat, though, the starting offer of 6 minis for $40 required a lot of stretch goal freebies before it started looking like a good deal, and a lot of early birds that jumped in purely on the notion of "expected value" might be getting itchy fingers at this point since we've had 2 non-freebie goals in a row now, and Mantic have said that the next 1-2 stretch goals (new faction starters) will not be freebies either.
I'm quite surprised that Mantic doesn't have Warpath 2.0 lists for all the minis in all 4 factions already live + heavily pimping the "buy an extra couple of starters and then you'll have an elite shock trooper army for Warpath too!" angle... there's a lot of missed potential for cross-promotion here since WP 2.0 is a very good game, and they should be shouting from the rooftops about it and how you can use your deadzone minis in this awesome game of theirs instead of not really mentioning much about it at all.
Hell, have "Elite Warpath army bundles" and whatnot as add-ons, people would lap it up. Feels like there's an obvious upsell route that isn't being taken, it's hinted at with the 6x4 board options available, but has never been explicitly stated.
I cannot agree with you more Squig. I was there, literally from Day 1 of this KS'er shouting from the roof-tops that they should link this to Warpath 2.0 in every way possible, without compromising it as a stand-alone game.
Lets be frank... Deadzone stands to be a wonderful game, but it is a diversion. In a year or two, like most hobbyist board-games, it will be relegated to niche product. What WILL endure, is the terrain born from it, and the Warpath game, which Ronnie has often said stands to be their HUGE game that really makes waves.
The problem is... I was met, so often, with Brian Blessed types telling me to go away, leave Warpath out of this.... blah blah blah.... And the problem, as I see it, is that this extremely loud minority yelling their vision to the high-heavens, have planted an ear-worm in Mantic.
I'll say again... your "Warpath Army" bolt-on is a BRILLIANT idea, and it would get me throwing more money into this KS rather than debating pulling back some, or at least re-jiggering my investment so I can avoid paying for those disgusting Orx. Likewise, they absolutely should play-up, on the front page that the minis will ALL come with Warpath rules, and that WP rules are available for free...
A nice selling point for Dust miniatures was always, "Buy one set of affordable models/unit, and play it as either a simple board-game for that crowd, or as a serious table-top war-game." Familiar opportunity here, being wasted because of some folks so obnoxious that it made me flee the comments, never-to-return.
This is moving so very slow today. I know Tuesdays are slow but at this rate we "might" break the 460k mark today. Makes me sad as I want to see what's next.
Sidenote the update has a new models sculpt photo and it's pretty solid.
I'd put a safe bet on ~100+ minis for $150 by the time this ends, or 70% overall discount (we're already at 50%).. both KoW and Dreadball finished at this sum.
We're at 52(53?) figures and 9 Scenery Sprues.
I suspect the inclusion of the Scenery Sprues is going to keep the model count down to something a lot closer to what it is now than 100.
I'd bet on us getting some of the new scenery sprues, as they are unlocked, instead of additional figures at this poiint.
Is "The Survivor" included,or just unlocked and available for purchase ?
I'm quite surprised that Mantic doesn't have Warpath 2.0 lists for all the minis in all 4 factions already live + heavily pimping the "buy an extra couple of starters and then you'll have an elite shock trooper army for Warpath too!" angle... there's a lot of missed potential for cross-promotion here since WP 2.0 is a very good game, and they should be shouting from the rooftops about it and how you can use your deadzone minis in this awesome game of theirs instead of not really mentioning much about it at all.
Hell, have "Elite Warpath army bundles" and whatnot as add-ons, people would lap it up. Feels like there's an obvious upsell route that isn't being taken, it's hinted at with the 6x4 board options available, but has never been explicitly stated.
I definitely agree. Warpath 2.0 stats should already be up. Definitely missed sales potential.
Honestly, I'd be willing to bet they don't have the stats ready. KS to see what models are included, and then write stats for them before they are released.
I feel like this is awful for me to say, because I don't wanna be one of those folks... as such, I will put the blame squarely on me, and say maybe I simply found this game for the wrong reason.... BUT... the more I read people's comments who mention Warpath, the more I realize that really IS what I wanted this KS to be.
I have Dreadball for a fun, side, novelty game... so I really wish they had just skipped straight to WP2.0.
Increasingly i'm wondering if I should just go all-in for terrain, and cherry pick a bunch of models, but not at the level I previously expected to. Obviously i'm not crazy enough to do anything until we see how this all shapes up... but I just don't want all these random race merc units, etc... I wanted wider/deeper faction boxes, and options.
Meanwhile, in a chilling resemblance to CMoN Kickstarters (which i've come to loath as opportunistic cash-grabs), I see sooo many of the comments, etc... devoted to people asking for random tribute models, asking for favorite characters, races, etc... to get one-off models.... and all the while I just see the shrinking potential for the core factions, and their future viability to Mantic as multi-purpose models for several games.
We're pretty close to on the same page. I admire Mantic ability to play the crowd but at this point I'm in for $300 and it's looking more and more like I won't actually be finishing at that level. I might be in for a Rebs Faction, all the FF stuff, some random other attractive single mini's for painting, and a ton of the terrain.
Right now, with the way the Orx look, I feel like the Strike Team is actually costing me money I could apply better elsewhere.
Warpath SHOULD be left out of this in the sense that what is added should be of the benefit of this game, not warpath. It should be a side effect it melds with Warpath. You can tell by some of the comments that there are Warpath players who don't care about the survivability of this game at all and just want it to develop more Warpath options. So naturally, when your comments clearly show that intent, people who are in this for Deadzone and NOT warpath are gonna get a little defensive.
And I don't see why they wouldn't have every right to expect that Deadzone supports Deadzone first, and brings Warpath options as a side effect.
It's not guarenteed to be a passing fad but it's likely. There are a lot of sci-fi skirmish games. This is another one. It's not offering anything outside of what's been offered before and not offering some things that have been offered before. It's extremely likely it isn't going to become a long established game.
However Warpath, and the mini's Deadzone produces that can be used for Warpath, is one of Mantic's primary systems. It's going to be around as long as Mantic is. This means it's smart to tie the two together. Especially in this day and age of gaming.
I'm starting to feel the same way Hulk; I'm not ruling out a Strike Team because I'm a completion-ist. However, I've gone from astronomical thoughts (Suppression Team + mats + terrain + other factions) to maybe a strike team and some terrain, depending on what I see in the future.
While I'm just one person, I can't help but feel that Mantic is uncharacteristically missing out on a lot of support with how they're going about things. Time will tell though, as we're a long way from the finish line here and these things always pick up at the end.
The only Sci fi Skirmish game worth it's salt IMO is Infinity, cant think of any others. DB was an entry gate to Mantic and Deadzone will be an entry gate to Warpath. There is plenty of room for expansions with the Zz'or and also the Ver'myn. I also think its doing Mantic and Jake a disservice by saying it will be a passing fad. If Deadzone is a great set of rules and gets the support (both from Mantic AND the community) it will be around for a long time.
Necromunda and Infinitey tend to rule the skirmish roost. There are more but they off the two things people love. Infinitey adds insane depth and crazy tactical gaming. Necromunda provides a fun game with an RP element. Deadzone seems to be trying to be a middle ground, which is fine but while the game might be around a while you probably won't be getting pick-up games for it, at least here in the US.
Hulksmash wrote: Necromunda and Infinitey tend to rule the skirmish roost. There are more but they off the two things people love. Infinitey adds insane depth and crazy tactical gaming. Necromunda provides a fun game with an RP element. Deadzone seems to be trying to be a middle ground, which is fine but while the game might be around a while you probably won't be getting pick-up games for it, at least here in the US.
And that's all theorycraft. I see it as a viable option as it breaks the barrier between board and miniature games. If it has good gameplay and the same sort of system that pushes you to want to play more like Necromunda, it'll have a following even in the states. I think a couple rough days have a bunch of people looking for reasons to jump ship as well. If something was a little different yesterday, half of these DOOOOOOOM!! Comments would be something positive instead.
Except from nkelsch
I don't see why this game isn't given a fair chance. If Deadzone compares to Necro like Dreadball compares to Blood Bowl. We got something. And since GW is abandoning its specialist games......
Tyrant... I love Mantic... Heck... that is why I am willing to give them $400 for a game i'm not really sure I want. :-p That said... if I am being candid, as much as I like Jake Thornton (Dreadball is AMAZING), Deadzone is very, very similar to Dust Tactics, with a mature layer of progression/campaign system over-laid. Even the much discussed innovations in melding cover, but retaining measuring in "squares" is an advancement, yes.... but you really can experience some of the flavor of DZ right now by picking up a Dust Tactics Revised Core set.
Mind you, this isn't a bad thing. DT got me to try it out, which led me to Dust Warfare which essentially everyone agrees is the superior game. That said... everyone wins as it is a viable board-game for a more casual, pick-up-and-play, crowd, or evening... whereas it is a gateway to a much, much, more substantial product.
Deadzone will have a niche, no doubt, and i'll be right there to support it... but there is every likelihood that this will be part of a secondary line for Mantic. Its a nice, relatively self-contained experience that can give folks the flavor of "My First Miniatures War-Game", but I just cannot see it existing WITHOUT Warpath as a companion. The two games will benefit from each-other, and might even need each-other... so I don't see why Mantic shouldn't embrace this all the sooner, at welcome in both crowds more fully.
Do you really think Mantic is showing off 6x4 tables, massive terrain bundles, and already talking about 4x4 rules for DZ, for fun? ;-)
How can you say that when the Mauraders from Warpath have a totally different scale and anatomy than the Deadszone models...
easily.
because i have a marauder guard and a warpath warboss, which the crappy pics I've seen of the wip commandos that everyone's basing their opinions on more resemble.
There is plenty of room for expansions with the Zz'or and also the Ver'myn. I also think its doing Mantic and Jake a disservice by saying it will be a passing fad. If Deadzone is a great set of rules and gets the support (both from Mantic AND the community) it will be around for a long time.
quite right, necromunda is still being played, workshop just don't support it.
there's a reason for the former and a reason for the latter.
dreadball was such a success they won't be droppping that, imagine the same with deadzone.
While I'm just one person, I can't help but feel that Mantic is uncharacteristically missing out on a lot of support with how they're going about things.
I just don't think that a fully fledged wargame of the scope of Warhammer 40K is a good fit for Kickstarter. It's just too huge.
So the smart way of building your "sci-fi" wargaming universe IMO is the way Mantic is building it. An all-out-board game like DreadBall to wet people's appetite. A near-board-game like Deadzone to launch terrain and expand the miniature range. Perhaps a GorkaMorka-style game to introduce a few vehicle kits. Perhaps even a pen-and-paper-RPG thrown in a-la Malifaux.
Step-by-step you'll be building something approaching the depth of a "full wargame" without "overloading" the limits of the Kickstarter-format.
Azazelx wrote: Basically, I'll stay in for now, and if I drop down dramatically it'll be in the final 48 hours, but as the KS stands right now I'd pull money out before I added anymore in.
Whew!
I was getting worried there for a bit!
I threw that in just for you, HMBC and RiTides. On a serious note, I may end up changing my pledge significantly to a terrain one with a few specific models if the value there increases and the figures don't pan out/no trades/etc.
Minis I'm not even interested in painting don't really add value to me. Let's see what the next 2 weeks brings, and if they decide to become a bit more flexible. I can't see them changing it up now, but they might at the 11th hour.
All kidding aside, I agree with you 100% on this...
Yeah. There are some nice models involved. I like the new space-Jellyfish sculpt they've just shown off. I'd love to see it in scale with other models though so I can decide if/how many to get. In many ways it's got a bit of an old-school vibe to the weird and wonderful stuff in the bestiary in the back of the original Rogue Trader book. (and probably good for the 40kRPGs in that context as well as various Fantasy ones)
Zweischneid wrote: I just don't think that a fully fledged wargame of the scope of Warhammer 40K is a good fit for Kickstarter. It's just too huge.
So the smart way of building your "sci-fi" wargaming universe IMO is the way Mantic is building it. An all-out-board game like DreadBall to wet people's appetite. A near-board-game like Deadzone to launch terrain and expand the miniature range. Perhaps a GorkaMorka-style game to introduce a few vehicle kits. Perhaps even a pen-and-paper-RPG thrown in a-la Malifaux.
Step-by-step you'll be building something approaching the depth of a "full wargame" without "overloading" the limits of the Kickstarter-format.
Mantic already used KS to fill out and relaunch an underdeveloped wargame they had with the KoW kickstarter. Sounds like the focus for Warpath is likely to be plastics and vehicles, so there's unlikely to be the same volume of development, but it's entirely possible.
Robotech is a highly successful Kickstarter, no doubt. The game will clearly have fans, even clubs, etc... . But similar to Wild West Exodus or Relic Knights, etc..., I don't see it gaining the kind of "pick-up-games-in-your-next-door-FLGS" kind of traction.
Awfully dismissive of what's been, from what I can tell, very candid and well thought out points. I'm not calling doom and gloom. I'm merely pointing out where it currently stands and I've noted that unless there is a shift, and there might be, that my pledge likely won't finish as high as it is now.
As for my statement being theory craft it's theory craft based on being in an area of the US that's one of the largest(percentage to population) and most active gaming communities in the country. I live where FFG is based and I'm pretty much in a gaming mecca. That said Dust Tactics is an excellent comparison, and guess how much that get played even here, where FFG is located and can push it.
I'm not saying they won't keep it around, I'm saying it's not filling a new niche. It's adding to an existing one. One that many gamers already have their itch scratched in. I can see it as an intro game to Warpath and honestly that's how they should use it when it's done in my opinion. But I don't think this is going to be another Dreadball (which I'll also add isn't played or really discussed in my neck of the woods). Granted a part of that is that Mantic isn't carried by any local store due to the cannibalization of their other higher costed lines.
@eilif - Honestly, its Mantics refusal to post multiple stretch goals. If, instead, they had posted "450k terrain options, 460k add-on mini, 475k something with freebie" it would have been received better. It's their own sense of mystery that's hurting retention.
The Orx didn't help
That's the one bit of mismanagement I think Mantic has played though.
dreadball was such a success they won't be droppping that, imagine the same with deadzone.
I hope you're right. I see alot of statements like this, but the fact is that Mantic is far too young a company to make any real predictions about whether and how long they will keep a given game around.
The comparison is often made of Deadzone and Necromunda. Consider the fact that Necromunda was first introduced in 1995 and the last edition of the game was produced in 2003, with -IIRC) the last official product being released a couple years later. That's about a 10 year period of support (in various forms) for a game, from a 37 year old company.
Then consider the fact that Mantic games products of any kind have only been in production since 2009 (less than 5 years) and it becomes clear that any statements about the longevity of a given Mantic game or line are pure speculation at this point.
So the smart way of building your "sci-fi" wargaming universe IMO is the way Mantic is building it. An all-out-board game like DreadBall to wet people's appetite. A near-board-game like Deadzone to launch terrain and expand the miniature range. Perhaps a GorkaMorka-style game to introduce a few vehicle kits. Perhaps even a pen-and-paper-RPG thrown in a-la Malifaux.
Ronnie pretty much said this in the seminar. Step by step I feel is the best way and something I would like to eco. Introduce people to Mantic VIA the fantastic game and miniatures (IMO) of Dreadball. Expand the universe to skirmish lvl whilst building the support and background brought and built upon from the previous two games then when it's at a critical mass then release your pierce de la resistance for maximum effect.
dreadball was such a success they won't be droppping that, imagine the same with deadzone.
I hope you're right. I see alot of statements like this, but the fact is that Mantic is far too young a company to make any real predictions about whether and how long they will keep a given game around.
The comparison is often made of Deadzone and Necromunda. Consider the fact that Necromunda was first introduced in 1995 and the last edition of the game was produced in 2003, with -IIRC) the last official product being released a couple years later. That's about a 10 year period of support (in various forms) for a game, from a 37 year old company.
Then consider the fact that Mantic games products of any kind have only been in production since 2009 (less than 5 years) and it becomes clear that any statements about the longevity of a given Mantic game or line are pure speculation at this point.
But Games Workshop clearly is the outlier case.
Mantic Games seems to be doing pretty good by most standards of the industry (remember Confrontation? Ex Illis?)
I threw that in just for you, HMBC and RiTides. On a serious note, I may end up changing my pledge significantly to a terrain one with a few specific models if the value there increases and the figures don't pan out/no trades/etc.
I wouldn't hope for the ability to trade stuff out. On the BGG forum I got told:
Hi guys,
We're hearing a lot of strong feedback about the Orx, but please do remember that these were work-in-progress figures that were put in the cabinet at the open day to give people a sneak peek. They're not the finished article! We'll be taking all of your feedback into account and re-working the Orx accordingly. We'll get some better pictures (in decent lighting!) up once they're a bit closer to being finished.
As for the Goblin sniper... well, we're getting really mixed viewpoints. Of course, with two variant models, people could easily switch out the "victory dance" pose and have two of the aiming Goblin.
Thanks for the feedback, though. Much appreciated!
James Mantic Games
I thought that was a good indicator and asked:
James, Are you guys going to allow folks to switch out figures like this? Right now several of those poses end up being useless to me, making the Orx (25% of the factions I get at my pledge level) useless. It isn't the lighting, it is the poses and silly/funny styling that totally ruin them for me. Different lighting is not going to fix that.
and he replied:
Sorry, I wasn't very clear there. The faction starter will contain one of each sniper, but as some people are keen and others aren't, you could swap with someone else and get two of the same. Alternatively, with the force creation rules, you might only want one sniper in your force.
And yes, as I said, we are re-working the models. I wasn't trying to say that the lighting was to blame, just that the actual photos we release will look a lot nicer! These models haven't come out as we intended them to, so we're going to re-work the Orx (change the poses, change some of the detail, etc) based on the feedback we've received.
Hope that's a bit clearer!
So, I don't expect Mantic to allow trades/swapping within the KickStarter pledges...
dreadball was such a success they won't be droppping that, imagine the same with deadzone.
I hope you're right. I see alot of statements like this, but the fact is that Mantic is far too young a company to make any real predictions about whether and how long they will keep a given game around.
The comparison is often made of Deadzone and Necromunda. Consider the fact that Necromunda was first introduced in 1995 and the last edition of the game was produced in 2003, with -IIRC) the last official product being released a couple years later. That's about a 10 year period of support (in various forms) for a game, from a 37 year old company.
Then consider the fact that Mantic games products of any kind have only been in production since 2009 (less than 5 years) and it becomes clear that any statements about the longevity of a given Mantic game or line are pure speculation at this point.
But Games Workshop clearly is the outlier case.
Mantic Games seems to be doing pretty good by most standards of the industry (remember Confrontation? Ex Illis?)
I also can't stress enough that with viable options for their beloved GW specialty games, those gamers will be prone to move over to something that is being supported currently.
Sorry, I wasn't very clear there. The faction starter will contain one of each sniper, but as some people are keen and others aren't, you could swap with someone else and get two of the same. Alternatively, with the force creation rules, you might only want one sniper in your force.
And yes, as I said, we are re-working the models. I wasn't trying to say that the lighting was to blame, just that the actual photos we release will look a lot nicer! These models haven't come out as we intended them to, so we're going to re-work the Orx (change the poses, change some of the detail, etc) based on the feedback we've received.
Hope that's a bit clearer!
Well, that sounds like good news for the people that don't like the current designs. As I said, I don't really care one way or the other, but I'm glad they're taking public reaction into consideration. Imagine if they waited until the figures were already cast and ready for production to post photos. Now, I know it wouldn't happen, but it would be kind of neat if they released both the goofy Orx and more realistic ones that're in-line with the artwork. That way they could cover botht he people who like their comical GW orcs and people who like their gritty Orx. Maybe make the goofy ones a KS exclusive starter add-on option?
After trying to have a constructive conversation regarding swapping factions out at the Assualt Team level + (even if they kept the first 4 factions the same) I have given up. I have also reduced my pledge after the positive comments I received.
...Then consider the fact that Mantic games products of any kind have only been in production since 2009 (less than 5 years) and it becomes clear that any statements about the longevity of a given Mantic game or line are pure speculation at this point.
But Games Workshop clearly is the outlier case.
Mantic Games seems to be doing pretty good by most standards of the industry (remember Confrontation? Ex Illis?)
Funny that you mention Confrontation. It did die a very sad death, but the Rackham company lasted 12 years, whereas Mantic is only 5 years old. Mantic is doing great by game company standards, but by those same standards, it's still a baby with a very short track record.
Not trying to dis Mantic (I've got some Warpath Forgefathers and am supporting Deadzone too), just wanting to add a bit of perspective.
It's kind of ironic, but Mantic is starting to resemble the GW of 15 years ago or so.. full of vitality and humour, willing to bring a variety of new games to the market, engage with the fans and still that sense of optimism around them.
It will be interesting to see how things go over the next few years.. .
Almost $460,000.. please be the new starter races!
I also can't stress enough that with viable options for their beloved GW specialty games, those gamers will be prone to move over to something that is being supported currently.
BloodBowl and Necromunda have rules easily available online, and can sub in any number of proxy miniatures (many far better than anything GW ever put out!) Neither has been supported properly in ages, so I don't really see Necro or BB gamers who are still playing them at this point changing over. They might play something else as well (which I'm sure most already do), but I don't see them "leaving" Necro or BB in droves for DB or DZ.
I also can't stress enough that with viable options for their beloved GW specialty games, those gamers will be prone to move over to something that is being supported currently.
BloodBowl and Necromunda have rules easily available online, and can sub in any number of proxy miniatures (many far better than anything GW ever put out!) Neither has been supported properly in ages, so I don't really see Necro or BB gamers who are still playing them at this point changing over. They might play something else as well (which I'm sure most already do), but I don't see them "leaving" Necro or BB in droves for DB or DZ.
I've seen a number of people who had casually played bloodbowl now and then when leagues came that have now picked up dread ball. I know there are still necro players, but I haven't actually seen anyone who does in the past 5 years. It's pretty obvious that it's a much smaller market than bloodbowl (difficulty finding figures and the need to convert are two barriers to entry I found). I actually think Deadzone is a much better setting to run a skirmish game in - if GW had done a skirmish level game which shared models with 40k, it would have been much more popular than necromunda.
I've seen a number of people who had casually played bloodbowl now and then when leagues came that have now picked up dread ball. I know there are still necro players, but I haven't actually seen anyone who does in the past 5 years. It's pretty obvious that it's a much smaller market than bloodbowl (difficulty finding figures and the need to convert are two barriers to entry I found). I actually think Deadzone is a much better setting to run a skirmish game in - if GW had done a skirmish level game which shared models with 40k, it would have been much more popular than necromunda.
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.
What you nor I "see" in our limited areas means all that much in the global scheme of things, particularly given the fact that Necromunda isn't all that much of an "in-store" game these days, but it's pretty clearly still going pretty strongly today (as are Epic, Mordheim, etc). I also was quite specific in saying that BB players will also try DB, but that it's not an either/or situation. Same deal with DeadZone, though it seems to have a bit of a Dust Tactics vibe going as well. The scenery working well for Necromunda is also learly a choice, and a smart one at that. Setting up a Necromunda force in 2013 really comes down to 2 steps:
1) Choose a Gang template
2) Find figures you like.
It's not like there's any pressure to use official GW miniatures, and there's a huge range of appropriate proxies from pretty much everyone who makes sci-fi adventurers/infantry/miniatures, ranging from direct clones of the GW styles to using whatever you think looks cool.
"These models haven't come out as we intended them to, so we're going to re-work the Orx (change the poses, change some of the detail, etc) based on the feedback we've received. "
Which restores some faith. I will reserve final judgment if they do indeed go back to re-work the Orx.
judgedoug wrote: Thank you CptJake, this quote is my favorite bit
"These models haven't come out as we intended them to, so we're going to re-work the Orx (change the poses, change some of the detail, etc) based on the feedback we've received. "
Which restores some faith. I will reserve final judgment if they do indeed go back to re-work the Orx.
This, and thank you for sharing that tidbit CptJake. This is more the Mantic I've come to expect after watching them. They still might not make them look attractive enough to me, but at least they didn't just blaze ahead.
I'm hopeful too, but as a great NCO I knew used to remind me, "Hope isn't a method". We'll see. It seems they are happy with 'silly orx' and will likely maintain that theme even if some of the sculpts are redone. I was hoping for Brutal Warmonger Orx and silly/fun/happy just doesn't cut it for me. When you look at the Dreadball big Orxs which just look like they are out to hammer their opponents, I was hoping for Orx with a similar philosophy towards war. Obviously that is just MY opinion, and won't be valid for others, but for ME it does make that faction next to useless which lowers my perception of value for the pledge I am making right now.
Not my picture but this guy looks serious, and I hoped the Deadzone Orx would too:
Don't say that in the comments CptJake. Some people there are vigorously shoot down anything that isn't their vision of the project. It's pretty silly that some of them are actively against the project making more money...
Got a fair bit of negative feedback today in the comments, id suggested some one faction bundle deals for people looking a dz as a starting point for warpath.
Should be a new update shortly, hopefully improve the mood
judgedoug wrote: Thank you CptJake, this quote is my favorite bit
"These models haven't come out as we intended them to, so we're going to re-work the Orx (change the poses, change some of the detail, etc) based on the feedback we've received. "
Which restores some faith. I will reserve final judgment if they do indeed go back to re-work the Orx.
Didn't they say the same thing about the Judwan and some of their KOW sculpts, all of which stayed unchanged? How many times have they acutally changed a model between green and release due to feedback?
I also can't stress enough that with viable options for their beloved GW specialty games, those gamers will be prone to move over to something that is being supported currently
Though technically sold until recently, Necromunda hasn't really been supported or grown for the better part of a decade. If those gamers had wanted a similar, new game, they would have already moved on to Infinity or Dark Age, or Rezolution. etc....
This whole Deadzone as Necromunda replacement is way over blown. It's a miniatures/board game that will have to attract players on it's own merits. Something I think it will do well.
Interestingly, the style of Deadzone seems to have alot more in common with Inifinity than with anything GW has done. Despite the inclusion of space orks, the overall look is much more anime than grimdark.
edlowe wrote: Got a fair bit of negative feedback today in the comments, id suggested some one faction bundle deals for people looking a dz as a starting point for warpath.
Should be a new update shortly, hopefully improve the mood
Yeah I felt bad for ya buddy. You came in right after someone stirred up the pack
judgedoug wrote: Thank you CptJake, this quote is my favorite bit
"These models haven't come out as we intended them to, so we're going to re-work the Orx (change the poses, change some of the detail, etc) based on the feedback we've received. "
Which restores some faith. I will reserve final judgment if they do indeed go back to re-work the Orx.
Aye, thanks for posting that! As others have said I doubt very much if we will get a complete re-working of concept (which would perhaps be unreasonable.. it seems many here do prefer the 'giant ape' style of orx, rather than the KoW ones) but even if they made an extra sculpt or two, or changed some details, that would be something.
Oh the agony of choice....
Lets face it, it's going to be forge fathers.
Looking good, hope it makes the pledge level soon, I want to see more FF stuff.
Earth Dragon wrote: Wow...that sure showed the "Strike Team doesn't get enough stuff" they were full of crap lol. Plus TWO NEW FACTIONS for $50.....awesome
erm, you might want to pull your head in a little bit. People discuss what's available at the time based on the information available at the time. "lol"
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm not seeing where these "free factions" fit in at all? Well, as add-ons they're pretty straightforward but not seeing where they fit in as "free"?
Whoa, this is a very good deal from Mantic. Question is whether I should get more enforcers or branch out into Asterians?
While I quite liked the Dreadball idea of giving away a couple of players from each team I like this a whole lot more, especially if we start to see more add ons for the new factions.
I'm not seeing where these "free factions" fit in at all? Well, as add-ons they're pretty straightforward but not seeing where they fit in as "free"?
All Strike Teams get their choice of faction starter for free (+$10 for shipping if it's one of the new ones). Quote from update 37:
To celebrate this goal we will add One Free Faction Starter Of Your Choice (Miniatures PLUS Faction Card Deck) to game pledges of Strike Team ($150) and up*.
It's an interesting option, and good show to Mantic, but I'm still on the fence about how I want to proceed.
Earth Dragon wrote: Wow...that sure showed the "Strike Team doesn't get enough stuff" they were full of crap lol. Plus TWO NEW FACTIONS for $50.....awesome
erm, you might want to pull your head in a little bit. People discuss what's available at the time based on the information available at the time. "lol"
Whatever dude. The point is there is stuff constantly being added to it and those fools over-reacted to 30k worth of measly stretch goals.
To celebrate this goal we will add One Free Faction Starter Of Your Choice (Miniatures PLUS Faction Card Deck) to game pledges of Strike Team ($150) and up*.
to the person who asked whether thenew faction starters get freebies from stretch goals, it says yes in the update.
its Mantics refusal to post multiple stretch goals. If, instead, they had posted "450k terrain options, 460k add-on mini, 475k something with freebie" it would have been received better. It's their own sense of mystery that's hurting retention.
same strategy they used for kow and dreadball, same strategy as cmon used mostly... didn't hurt either of them so I don't subscribe to this.
This is a pretty awesome stretch goal. Think I will add $50 and get both the Forge Fathers and Asterians plus add a second set of Enforcers or Rebs or Plague...
Yeah, I'm upping by $50 too, it's a no-brainer add-on.
Don't forget the 2 new factions will be expanded via stretch goals as this progresses, same as the initial four.
Another tempting option is 2x Strike Team, to get both the forgefathers and asterians for free as well as doubling up on the initial four + all the terrain and mats + other bits.
Yep seems to make more sense to add $50 for the EU bundle and double up on an existing faction as your effectively getting the extra existing faction for $15
If you want any add ones at all for a current faction it makes more sense
Earth Dragon wrote: Wow...that sure showed the "Strike Team doesn't get enough stuff" they were full of crap lol. Plus TWO NEW FACTIONS for $50.....awesome
erm, you might want to pull your head in a little bit. People discuss what's available at the time based on the information available at the time. "lol"
Whatever dude. The point is there is stuff constantly being added to it and those fools over-reacted to 30k worth of measly stretch goals.
Just hold on to your damn butts next time.
Really? Calling people fools for pointing out a lack of value (reasonable) that was enhanced by what many perceived as poor sculpts for one of the factions seems a bit overblown. Many people also noted that things could change but at the moment the value still wasn't there.
By the way, another starter is cool. The ability to pick whatever extra starter you want has officially made the Strike level mostly worthwhile again. Which was a good move after the Orx issue. I'm still of the opinion that many of the add-ons are priced to high to dive in on without actual sculpts based on Mantics track record.
Quite liking the Asterian concepts so far, they have a real Eldar crossed with Protoss (starcraft) feel to them, but still have their own distinct flair which sets them apart. So glad they didn't turn out to be just "not-Eldar", oh and Forge fathers are nice, I'm sure Pacific will be buying a bucket full.
So, since I took the earlybird $148, I get to choose one free faction of my choice (asterians) and if I'm interested (I am) I can add on $45 for an expanded universe faction. That sound right?
Black Nexus wrote: to the person who asked whether thenew faction starters get freebies from stretch goals, it says yes in the update.
its Mantics refusal to post multiple stretch goals. If, instead, they had posted "450k terrain options, 460k add-on mini, 475k something with freebie" it would have been received better. It's their own sense of mystery that's hurting retention.
same strategy they used for kow and dreadball, same strategy as cmon used mostly... didn't hurt either of them so I don't subscribe to this.
Yet the last two days were self evidence it DID hurt a bit. The plan may need slight adjustments and I've definitely stated it was an over-reaction to the situation by those guys jumping ship cause there was no constant freebie.
I'm not saying there isn't plus sides, but someone pondered the reason, and I gave a big one, at least one that applies to Americans as we require constant maintenance and entertainment.
The thing is, it's not really 'for free' it is, "get Forge Father or Asterians for another 10 dollars."
So, it seems to me, it's not really worth adding anything on right now in my mind (especially since I already 'estimated high' on my initial bid), as it entirely depends on whether I'm going to want to buy any more shipment 2 items, which presumably will require the 10 dollar shipment 2 charge.
It might actually be a bit more foot shooting now.
If you treat it as a, "shipment 2 = 10 dollars" then someone, eg me, will be tempted to just go for the 1st shipment then never bother with anything else.
Or, just go for something like the FF/Ast double pack. - Which, I'm probably wrong in saying, does not APPEAR to have the "Shipment 2 charge" on it?
Barzam wrote: So, since I took the earlybird $148, I get to choose one free faction of my choice (asterians) and if I'm interested (I am) I can add on $45 for an expanded universe faction. That sound right?
$10 for the second wave faction freebie, and $35 for the other
Or, add $50.00 for both new factions via the bundle deal (which includes shipping), and pick your favorite existing faction for the free one. This is what I currently intend to do.
Well, I upped my pledge to $200 though the remainder is basically for add-ons at this point (hoping we see some FF add-ons down the line). Will probably be upping it a bit more (possibly to grab a second FF starter) but for now I will up it as a show of thanks for Mantic and to edge it closer to the Forge Father/Asterian goal. I'm kind of stoked that they will all be in Forge Guard armour, the concepts look bad-arse.
Taarnak wrote: Or, add $50.00 for both new factions via the bundle deal (which includes shipping), and pick your favorite existing faction for the free one. This is what I currently intend to do.
My biggest issue now is trying to decide if I wanna aim for strike+add-on spam, or jump up to enforcer or even assault. I already wanted to make an enforcers army before this dropped, and with the free faction starter per strike...
Ofc that will horrendously bloat my pledge when you factor in I still want a terrain set (only way to get the new landing pad, fortifications etc..),the new faction starter double-pack, and the optional mercs. That and enforcers would probably like to have a few of those burst laser add-on guys =\
May end up doing that before the end myself. But for now I'm in for $10 shipping and the FF starter +$27 in whatever add-ons catch my interest down the road. But once my paycheck comes in for all the extra hours I'm working (half-way to month end... go faster time!) I'll probably up to $300 for the $50 expanded universe, a free FF starter to complement and the $95 terrain pack. So much goodness in there.
Edit - Hmm, at that level Assault Team starts looking pretty good. Aw, nine hells, my wallet is weeping already.
Alpharius wrote: Can someone copypasta the text that says if you go for the Q2 Forgefathers/Asterians bundle that it ships free?
I can't locate that language...
Thanks!
Adding an Expanded Universe Faction Starter
If you decide you want an existing Faction as your free choice or you really like the designs of the new factions and want lots of figures, you can add on the Expanded Universe Faction Starters to your pledge, either individually or as part of a Kickstarter Exclusive Bundle Deal never to be seen again!
Note that each of these bundles includes free UK and US shipping.
THIS is how you make EVERYONE happy. I'm not sure how any contingent won't come away from this one pleased as can be. We get freebies/added value, we get new factions, we get an acknowledgement of building a collection for Deadzone AND future games... Heck... this is an amazing shot in the arm in general.
If they'll allow it, i'm definitely going to add $90 to my pledge for TWO Asterian/Forge-Father bundles (Supposedly only the first has a $10 surcharge for Wave 2 shipping, right?)
If you decide you want an existing Faction as your free choice or you really like the designs of the new factions and want lots of figures, you can add on the Expanded Universe Faction Starters to your pledge, either individually or as part of a Kickstarter Exclusive Bundle Deal never to be seen again!
Note that each of these bundles includes free UK and US shipping.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: THIS is how you make EVERYONE happy. I'm not sure how any contingent won't come away from this one pleased as can be. We get freebies/added value, we get new factions, we get an acknowledgement of building a collection for Deadzone AND future games... Heck... this is an amazing shot in the arm in general.
If they'll allow it, i'm definitely going to add $90 to my pledge for TWO Asterian/Forge-Father bundles (Supposedly only the first has a $10 surcharge for Wave 2 shipping, right?)
$100 for 2 sets the $10 is in addition to the bundle prices you don't subtract it from them if you qualify for free postage you just don't have to pay it.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: THIS is how you make EVERYONE happy. I'm not sure how any contingent won't come away from this one pleased as can be. We get freebies/added value, we get new factions, we get an acknowledgement of building a collection for Deadzone AND future games... Heck... this is an amazing shot in the arm in general.
If they'll allow it, i'm definitely going to add $90 to my pledge for TWO Asterian/Forge-Father bundles (Supposedly only the first has a $10 surcharge for Wave 2 shipping, right?)
$100 for 2 sets the $10 is in addition to the bundle prices you don't subtract it from them if you qualify for free postage you just don't have to pay it.
Wasn't it said elsewhere that $10 would cover ALL Wave 2 shipping? I vaguely recall seeing it, and it being something akin to, any terrain, models, etc... shipped later only require paying the shipping extra ONCE?
The way it breaks down is if you are grabbing the add-on versions of the new sets (the bundle or the singles) then it is free shipping to the UK or US. If you live outside these areas then you pay the $10 for any and all Wave 2 shipments.
If you are a US/UK backer and decided to grab a Wave 2 starter as your freebie, then you add the $10 to cover the second shipment.
The free US/UK shipping on the bundles doesn't seem to preclude the $10 charge for the freebie from my reading. But for those who were in for an extra starter anyways, it is a cheaper option for Strike Team+ pledgers to grab the one they are already paying for as a freebie and to get the Wave 2 as an add-on is they are US/UK residents.
Those outside of either look to need to pay the $10 Wave 2 shipping charge if they are going for any Wave 2 stuff. And those US/UK folk only getting a Wave 2 starter as a freebie will also be ponying up the $10 shipping charge. The main confusion seems to lie in whether the free US/UK shipping on the add-ons counts for the $10 freebie shipping for US/UK pledgers.
So that is my reading at least, I guess we'll wait for clarification from Mantic.
That said, $15 for two international shipments is still mind-boggling good from my standpoint. So I'm happy to pay it, myself. If US/UK backers can alleviate the $10 shipping fee on the freebie by grabbing an add-on then that is a crazy good deal (if that is the way it works).
Nice. It's been a few days since there's been a 'Holy crap, must grab that' stretch goal (which, I suppose, says something about what I expect from a Kickstarter.) At an absolute minimum I'll be in for Strike Team and Expanded Universe now. I'm still waiting to see what happens to the terrain for Strike Team and the add-ons before I know for sure what I'll do with that. Right now I'm planning on grabbing a Mantic buttload of terrain add-ons, but I may switch to Assault or Suppression Team depending on how the value works out. Regardless I'm sure I'll end with this costing me $300-500.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ronin_eX wrote: If US/UK backers can alleviate the $10 shipping fee on the freebie by grabbing an add-on then that is a crazy good deal (if that is the way it works).
That should be the way it works.
Jason Gifford about 2 hours ago
Quick Question. Assault Team (So two strike Teams), taking one each of the Asterians and Forge Fathers for the 2 free faction sets, and also ordering an EU Bundle Deal, so I'll end up with 2 each of the Asterians and Forge Fathers... how much should I add for US shipping?
Mantic wrote:@ Jason - Ah, good question! Adding the EU bundle on would cover the cost of the Second Shipment postage meaning you wouldn't need to pay any additional shipping.
Yep... This is the Mantic I was hoping for. Now, for $100 total added to my pledge, I get a second Enforcer starter, and two Forge Father/Asterian starters.
Been doing some thinking, and unless they change the 6 building sprues in the strike package to two battlezones, I can't see myself going over assault team.
Suppression would be pretty darn close to what I want (basically an enforcer army, plus everything else they make for the game), if I were to tack on the EU double and the mercs...
The hitch is that I'd be stuck with 18 some-odd core worlds sprues with no option to swap out for landingpad/reinforced/ruins/etc battle zones.
So for this humble deadzone fan, I think assault plus EUbundle, plus mercs, plus skirmish(to get current tile sets)/battle(depending on how many sets we unlock), plus some add-on enforcers (specialist with burst laser, i'm looking at you!).. will be what I settle on.
Ofc they could throw another monkey wrench at this with another ridiculously high value stretch goal... Good times
I must admit, the Forgefather "not-terminator" squad is pretty cool. The real bummer is that it won;t be useable in Warpath until halfway through next spring. Ugh, that'd be a long wait.
gohkm wrote: I must be one of the few who don't actually like the new factions. It seems that the Strike Team pledge is still my sweet spot.
I'll have to get in on this, funds permitting, at a later stage.
I'm likely going to just double up my rebels with the free box. I like both new concepts, but just don't feel like spending more than Strike Team at this point, and I really don't mind the idea of getting my whole Kickstarter in a single package, rather than most everything with a bit later. I would probably add even more if they made the 2 factions for $50 into a general upgrade option rather than just the FF/asterians.
I dont mind dwarfoids in a scifi setting, and the not-eldar are mostly cyborg/robots so those are cooler than they could have been.
I'll most likely pick up the $50 EU set for the sake of completeness (they're both neat but i'm not crazy about them) and focus on enforcers with however many free factions I end up with...
Though the rebs are preeety awesome... toughest decision for me right now, but the rebs wont play well with my 46 man corp army box, and enforcers will.
I'd be ok with another "season 3" set with zzor and/or veermyn, the more fancy teams you've got laying around the easier it will be to entice someone who doesn't already play into a pickup/demo game.
Unfortunately Grim, this thing will have to explode for them to get into Veer-myn. It's planned as a later release in and of itself with its own set of faction choices and what have you (I'm sure there'll be a lot of cross-over factions in each setting).
If you're familiar with Mordhiem, it'd be like the Lustria setting.
Kids want Forge Fathers, Dad wants Asterians. Will likely have to get the EU bundle and get a bonus Plague faction to mob both of them with.
Hopefully we'll at least see that infected Teraton in the near future.
My big conundrum of the moment is what to do with other games I've pledged for. Do I want to keep my pledge for Galaxy Defenders, or just go in balls- deep and pledge at Assault for Deadzone?
I was going off of your two more factions comment. Those are the only other WP factions I know of so that's why I said that.
I'd be happy to see the KS explode like that but I'm already digging far deeper into the old wallet than planned and more factions will only add to that
GrimDork wrote: I was going off of your two more factions comment. Those are the only other WP factions I know of so that's why I said that.
I'd be happy to see the KS explode like that but I'm already digging far deeper into the old wallet than planned and more factions will only add to that
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Beats me what the other two factions might be. Zees? Maybe Survivors like was suggested? Should be interesting. Maybe at that point it'd more setting specific type factions, which could be cool.
Hrm, not really liking the Asterians. I REALLY want space elves, but I want space ELVES and not Space Elf+ a dozen Cylons. I totally understand the fluff reasoning, I do. It makes MUCH more sense than say, a dying race using it's civilian militia as front line troops wearing paper mache armor. But it hardly makes me want to use the models or play the faction.
At least that makes the decision of free faction pretty wasy (and yet SO HARD!): more Enforcers or more Rebels?
Kalamadea wrote: It makes MUCH more sense than say, a dying race using it's civilian militia as front line troops wearing paper mache armor.
This sort of thing is representative of my main gripe with the 40k universe. It's enough to make me happy that a logical reason is behind the models and gameplay even if it's not my ideal situation.
. I would love to see the 
Any less would be non-canonical.
'ed up ^^
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