It’s not like you can day trip to Austin from out of state like you can day trip to nottingham from elsewhere in the UK.
Frankly: I’m going to Nottingham from Scotland next month, and because I don’t have a driving licence It’ll be a three day round trip.
Even if I was a driver it’d be more practical to make it at least a two day journey.
You must be an exception, Nottingham is a day trip for 90% of the UK population, Grapevine TX is a day trip for maybe 5% of the US population. From the North East US, it is a 3.5 hr plane ride, or 3-day drive (each way).
Grapevine, TX, is as far from Houston & Austin as Glasgow, Edinburgh or Plymouth are from Nottingham.
Warhammer Cafe/Citadel is in Grapevine, TX. Like 15 minutes from DFW Airport.
So, 3-4 hours there, an hour to get out of the DFW airport (or more) half an hour there and back, and then another hour to get back into the DFW airport, and then 3-4 hours home. Still sounds like a hotel stay, particularly if you don't want to ride the red eye home.
Warhammer Cafe/Citadel is in Grapevine, TX. Like 15 minutes from DFW Airport.
So, 3-4 hours there, an hour to get out of the DFW airport (or more) half an hour there and back, and then another hour to get back into the DFW airport, and then 3-4 hours home. Still sounds like a hotel stay, particularly if you don't want to ride the red eye home.
And, of course, will that save on what you'd have to pay for in postage + "fees" if you just order it direct?
It’s not like you can day trip to Austin from out of state like you can day trip to nottingham from elsewhere in the UK.
Frankly: I’m going to Nottingham from Scotland next month, and because I don’t have a driving licence It’ll be a three day round trip.
Even if I was a driver it’d be more practical to make it at least a two day journey.
You must be an exception, Nottingham is a day trip for 90% of the UK population, Grapevine TX is a day trip for maybe 5% of the US population. From the North East US, it is a 3.5 hr plane ride, or 3-day drive (each way).
Grapevine, TX, is as far from Houston & Austin as Glasgow, Edinburgh or Plymouth are from Nottingham.
If it's to buy forgeworld, the fuel costs probably make Scotland to Nottingham inefficient if nothing else.
It’s not like you can day trip to Austin from out of state like you can day trip to nottingham from elsewhere in the UK.
Frankly: I’m going to Nottingham from Scotland next month, and because I don’t have a driving licence It’ll be a three day round trip.
Even if I was a driver it’d be more practical to make it at least a two day journey.
You must be an exception, Nottingham is a day trip for 90% of the UK population, Grapevine TX is a day trip for maybe 5% of the US population. From the North East US, it is a 3.5 hr plane ride, or 3-day drive (each way).
Grapevine, TX, is as far from Houston & Austin as Glasgow, Edinburgh or Plymouth are from Nottingham.
There are more people who live in London alone than Scotland, yes. Scotland is roughly 7.5% of the total population.
Which is why my example of the difficulty of “just making a day trip” even in a much smaller country is relevant to the absurdity of just making a day trip to a specific Texan town.
It’s not like you can day trip to Austin from out of state like you can day trip to nottingham from elsewhere in the UK.
Frankly: I’m going to Nottingham from Scotland next month, and because I don’t have a driving licence It’ll be a three day round trip.
Even if I was a driver it’d be more practical to make it at least a two day journey.
You must be an exception, Nottingham is a day trip for 90% of the UK population, Grapevine TX is a day trip for maybe 5% of the US population. From the North East US, it is a 3.5 hr plane ride, or 3-day drive (each way).
Grapevine, TX, is as far from Houston & Austin as Glasgow, Edinburgh or Plymouth are from Nottingham.
It may be a day trip to most of the UK but that would still involve 3+ hours of travel each way for most, it vcan take that long just from london to nottingham.
JohnnyHell wrote: So all we’ve established is that it’s not really convenient for anyone to pick up FW from the one dedicated shop on their continent. Cool, cool. ;-)
Hell, i live 30 miles away from Nottingham, and it can still take the best part of an hour and a half to get there.
Jadenim wrote: I’m beginning to wonder if Fires was an Alan Bligh pet project and no one else wants to touch it out of pain / respect. FW is a pretty close knit community and if that was the last thing one of my friends wrote, I’d be loathe to re-write it.
(...) Because let's be honest here, nobody really cares about FoC because of the fluff about some random war we've never heard of. We want it because we want rules updates to use our models in 40k.
Thats where you are wrong! I get all the IA books just for the fluff
TwilightSparkles wrote: Can take 30-40 minutes just to get across Nottingham some days in car ..... the tram takes over an hour to go one side to the other.......
FW does need to sort its postage out as if they were an eBay seller charging those prices they'd be getting hammered on feedback.
Indeed.
GW, free shipping over £40
FW, free shipping over £250
It’s not like you can day trip to Austin from out of state like you can day trip to nottingham from elsewhere in the UK.
Frankly: I’m going to Nottingham from Scotland next month, and because I don’t have a driving licence It’ll be a three day round trip.
Even if I was a driver it’d be more practical to make it at least a two day journey.
You must be an exception, Nottingham is a day trip for 90% of the UK population, Grapevine TX is a day trip for maybe 5% of the US population. From the North East US, it is a 3.5 hr plane ride, or 3-day drive (each way).
Grapevine, TX, is as far from Houston & Austin as Glasgow, Edinburgh or Plymouth are from Nottingham.
It may be a day trip to most of the UK but that would still involve 3+ hours of travel each way for most, it vcan take that long just from london to nottingham.
Grapevine, TX is a 24 hour drive from NYC and a 25 hour drive from San Francisco. 3 hours is a day trip. But, it's a 25 min drive for me.
JohnnyHell wrote: So all we’ve established is that it’s not really convenient for anyone to pick up FW from the one dedicated shop on their continent. Cool, cool. ;-)
I used to wake up Friday mornings hoping that the House Vyronii decals would be released. Now I wake up Friday morning dreading what will be put on LCTB this week...
I don’t really resent FW for doing this - they’re a company and have to manage inventory. I do resent the lack of communication on their end. When is this paring down of kits going to end? Can you just list them all at once, but give it a 2-month order period so people can save up and order as needed?
I still think the Thallax were the coolest mechanicum unit FW or GW came up with, I much prefer them over the skitarii. The only issue is they aren't plastic, and seemed to be a HH thing and rare in 40k era. Weirdly enough 1-2 months ago I had a fearful thought more stuff including them would go out of production...
If the Thallax are going OOP then I fear for the legion of azgorh model range, they can't be too far behind especially considering one of their molds broke and FW said ah frack it and it's gone for good.
Most of the knight heads looked off, like they were from other ips than 40k. Not a huge loss there.
Thallax, hopefully they will just merge all the units into one bundle of 3 with the various options included. Or mod the legs slightly and they could make a plastic version.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Most of the knight heads looked off, like they were from other ips than 40k. Not a huge loss there.
Yeah. I mean, points for trying, but most of those heads looked worse than the stock options. I'm not really surprised that at least some of them would go OOP.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Most of the knight heads looked off, like they were from other ips than 40k. Not a huge loss there.
Yeah. I mean, points for trying, but most of those heads looked worse than the stock options. I'm not really surprised that at least some of them would go OOP.
Indeed. I'd rate only two of the Questoris heads. The Cerastus type heads were alright though
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, just had the newsletter in, and no LCTB this week. Looks like it has been deferred for now
Yep rules up for free for Sigmar - though a shame that they've not revised any of the beasts alliances (was very sure the myrewurm was going to end up at least allowed into Deepkin). Quite a few are also past the 400 point limit on a 2K list ally so a good few are only going to be for much larger Sigmar games.
Overread wrote: Yep rules up for free for Sigmar - though a shame that they've not revised any of the beasts alliances (was very sure the myrewurm was going to end up at least allowed into Deepkin). Quite a few are also past the 400 point limit on a 2K list ally so a good few are only going to be for much larger Sigmar games.
I think they'll wait for a proper book to expand on the current rules (it was already said by the AOSFW team they wanted to made the Merwyrm available to the Idoneth)
This release is probably only a (quite good IMO) stopgap.
Dozens of Necroumnda bits and Blood Bowl star known to be in the pipeline - needed even to make teams and gangs playable - and yet another week of sweet hee-haw.
Continued ridiculous scheduling by FW, really ticks me off.
Dozens of Necroumnda bits and Blood Bowl star known to be in the pipeline - needed even to make teams and gangs playable - and yet another week of sweet hee-haw.
Continued ridiculous scheduling by FW, really ticks me off.
They need to build up a buffer of stock before putting things up for sale, so it could be they're having trouble with a mold, or something else is taking up casting time (the last chance stuff, for example).
Clockpunk wrote: Dozens of Necroumnda bits and Blood Bowl star known to be in the pipeline - needed even to make teams and gangs playable - and yet another week of sweet hee-haw.
Continued ridiculous scheduling by FW, really ticks me off.
I've got two boxes of Orlocks and two boxes of Van Saars just waiting for their conversion kits.
I'm still waiting for them to fix sw terminators, redo the
preator, make a deathsworn kit, release priests, give us boot pistols that Arnt upside down.
That’s going to suck if Thallax go OOP. They’re a troops choice for Mechanicum armies, and a good one at that. Even if it’s just the pack with no weapon upgrades, that sucks for players who use the Ferrox upgrade as they can’t take special weapons.
FW is basically telling people to go to recasters if they want to buy a troops choice for a Mechanicum army.
Thanatos73 wrote: That’s going to suck if Thallax go OOP. They’re a troops choice for Mechanicum armies, and a good one at that. Even if it’s just the pack with no weapon upgrades, that sucks for players who use the Ferrox upgrade as they can’t take special weapons.
FW is basically telling people to go to recasters if they want to buy a troops choice for a Mechanicum army.
One of the problems is that Mechanicum players are already going to recasters - the last major HH event I was at half the Mech players were boasting about having fully recast armies :-(
People complain about Fires, but if FW aren't seeing the sales they're not going to invest resources into a new book.
Yeah...these two things are not really the same. He's saying that at the last major HH event(read: one where Fires doesn't matter) had people boasting about fully recast armies. This is an issue surrounding not a book, but rather the fact that an army of these things gets expensive fast.
That's always been the case with FW 'exclusive' stuff.
Forgeworld won’t release Fires because they hate money.
Overread wrote: Yep rules up for free for Sigmar - though a shame that they've not revised any of the beasts alliances (was very sure the myrewurm was going to end up at least allowed into Deepkin). Quite a few are also past the 400 point limit on a 2K list ally so a good few are only going to be for much larger Sigmar games.
I think they'll wait for a proper book to expand on the current rules (it was already said by the AOSFW team they wanted to made the Merwyrm available to the Idoneth)
This release is probably only a (quite good IMO) stopgap.
If that's the case, then they need to redo the Merwyrm. Kit is awful to build.
I'd love for plastic Thallax to be a thing. They are probably my favourite Mechanicus unit across the board. I am sad to see them threatened. Hopefully the versions with a special weapon stay.
Forgeworld won’t release Fires because they hate money.
Yep, this is just bloody insane. I bought some Thallaxii when they first announced Cyraxus, and I've been waiting for rules for them ever since and I would have gladly bough more Mechanicum stuff. Apparently that is not going to happen.
To be fair, it's not like completing it and releasing it is like pressing a button. They have limited staff, and have that staff working on other projects that customers also want.
Now, maybe they should have more staff, but GW would hold those pursestrings. And I'd also find it hard to believe that supplements like FoC earn enough to justify new hires.
I think the main fault here might be with FW for overreaching and overpromising. Which are behaviors they've shown in the past. And I'm sure it's not intentional...they just get big new ideas and get excited about them, and then run into issues with the execution. Very creative people can be prone to this.
gorgon wrote: To be fair, it's not like completing it and releasing it is like pressing a button. They have limited staff, and have that staff working on other projects that customers also want.
They wrote 8th edition rules for most of their existing 40K range overnight. Sure, the the rules were crap, but crap rules is better than no rules. It really cannot be that hard to make some sort of rules for the Mechanicum range.
gorgon wrote: To be fair, it's not like completing it and releasing it is like pressing a button. They have limited staff, and have that staff working on other projects that customers also want.
Now, maybe they should have more staff, but GW would hold those pursestrings. And I'd also find it hard to believe that supplements like FoC earn enough to justify new hires.
I think the main fault here might be with FW for overreaching and overpromising. Which are behaviors they've shown in the past. And I'm sure it's not intentional...they just get big new ideas and get excited about them, and then run into issues with the execution. Very creative people can be prone to this.
They've literally said that it was done, ready to rock, but then 8th dropped and they knew they'd have to retool the rules so it got backburnered while they did the indexes, which is fine, everyone understands that. The issue is that they then chose to devote their time to writing a completely new Imperial Armour related to the Custodes which will be released before Fires, and now they're saying it will be delayed even further(and so far as we know right now, indefinitely) because now they've decided to rewrite all the fluff as well so it's set post-Return of the Rowboat.
Fires could be done right now and up for sale. Even if the Custodes delay was somehow mandatory and unavoidable, it should still be a fairly quick job to get a print-ready book sorted out(apply the same conversion process used for the indices, tweak the result based on what they've learned about 8th since the indices, done - if they could produce 8th rules for almost their whole catalogue with a quality level of "mostly OK" in a month or so, they could produce the necessary rules for one Imperial Armour to the usual IA level of quality in the same time. They're simply choosing not to bother.
Forgeworld won’t release Fires because they hate money.
Yep, this is just bloody insane. I bought some Thallaxii when they first announced Cyraxus, and I've been waiting for rules for them ever since and I would have gladly bough more Mechanicum stuff. Apparently that is not going to happen.
they are my shooty electropriests.
I play my Thanatar as a neutron onager, my castellax as punchbots, my vorax as shootbots, my myrmidons as battle servitors, my thallax as electropriests and my Triaros now joins the party as a siege drill.
I bought them all years ago, and have held off on buying any more since because of all the Fires delays, but if that book ever actually comes out a Domitar, Scoria, Ursarax, and a Krios will all be mine.
gorgon wrote: They've literally said that it was done, ready to rock, but then 8th dropped and they knew they'd have to retool the rules so it got backburnered while they did the indexes, which is fine, everyone understands that. The issue is that they then chose to devote their time to writing a completely new Imperial Armour related to the Custodes which will be released before Fires, and now they're saying it will be delayed even further(and so far as we know right now, indefinitely) because now they've decided to rewrite all the fluff as well so it's set post-Return of the Rowboat.
Fires could be done right now and up for sale. Even if the Custodes delay was somehow mandatory and unavoidable, it should still be a fairly quick job to get a print-ready book sorted out(apply the same conversion process used for the indices, tweak the result based on what they've learned about 8th since the indices, done - if they could produce 8th rules for almost their whole catalogue with a quality level of "mostly OK" in a month or so, they could produce the necessary rules for one Imperial Armour to the usual IA level of quality in the same time. They're simply choosing not to bother.
And they'd have to re-work the fluff to include Cawl & Primaris. Custodes are selling better than GWs wildest dreams - that's why they're getting all the attention. FW/GW didn't think people cared about AdMech, but we all wrote & called them and got rules back for Secutarii. I've emailed them again today asking about Fires (and to re-think dropping Thallax) - if enough people do the same we'll soon see it :-)
gorgon wrote: They've literally said that it was done, ready to rock, but then 8th dropped and they knew they'd have to retool the rules so it got backburnered while they did the indexes, which is fine, everyone understands that. The issue is that they then chose to devote their time to writing a completely new Imperial Armour related to the Custodes which will be released before Fires, and now they're saying it will be delayed even further(and so far as we know right now, indefinitely) because now they've decided to rewrite all the fluff as well so it's set post-Return of the Rowboat.
Fires could be done right now and up for sale. Even if the Custodes delay was somehow mandatory and unavoidable, it should still be a fairly quick job to get a print-ready book sorted out(apply the same conversion process used for the indices, tweak the result based on what they've learned about 8th since the indices, done - if they could produce 8th rules for almost their whole catalogue with a quality level of "mostly OK" in a month or so, they could produce the necessary rules for one Imperial Armour to the usual IA level of quality in the same time. They're simply choosing not to bother.
And they'd have to re-work the fluff to include Cawl & Primaris.
No they didn't, that was my point. Absolutely nothing required them to rewrite the finished and ready to print background material, they could have run the 7th>8th process on the rules and sent it to the printers. Nobody has had issues with FW publishing "historical" content in the past, whether it's a few decades or ten thousand years before the "present day", and the same would have been true for Fires.
Hell, for some of us it's made it a less appealing purchase - I don't care for Dark Imperium at all, and the fluff was the main reason I bought the FW books in the past, so if they're all going to be tied directly in to the ongoing Saturday Morning Cartoon narrative of the main GW studio fluff from now on I'll probably be giving most of them a miss, but it still would have been nice to finally have 40K rules for all this stuff.
I've held off on buying any mechanicum FW stuff for my Admech cuz I want 40k rules, now they just do this stuff and piss everyone off.
I have a bunch of FW stuff for my 40k salamanders and would gladly spend more on a bunch of robots. But I do hope that they make more stuff in plastic tho, maybe all factions troops choices?
I don't know why they didn't have an index for mechanicum like they did for almost everybody else.
The thing is fires doesn't support GW main studio narrative or kit sales.
The Imperial Armour Talons is actually going to include the first Forge world codex for sister's of silence. I for one am excited to see what Forgeworld can come upwith in terms of warlord traits and stratageums.
The change of direction was also alluded to being a GW management directive, I believe that forgeworld have lost alot of the independence it used to enjoy under Alan and are drowning under specialist games, LoR, lack of space and a bit of lack of drive for HH. Hopefully it shakes out and they find themselves again, but for now fires has been shelved for whatever reason they can't share.
Yeah, I think alot of forgeworlds ills migjt he related to the (still, and always sad) passing of Alan Bligh. For the heresy he was a driving force, and goodness knows whats its like trying to steer that ship without him.
I do hope he left enough accessible notes to give the full story of the rangdan xenocides.
This was a technical glitch and wasn't supposed to go online, which is why you won't have seen it on our website.
As you may know from our previous Last Chance to Buy we are performing range reviews and these kits are on the list to be put into Last Chance to Buy.
This being said, this is a range review and we are looking at this and currently, we don't have a date in mind.
'We know that we're going to drop these products, we've made the advertising saying that we're going to drop these products, but the timing of when we drop these products is totally up in the air and we have no idea because apparently we make decisions like that on a whim.'
I'd just ordered several of the heads (which I hadn't done a year ago, because, y'know, new Knight codex only released a couple of weeks ago).
Could be that they have noticed the surge in demand when things go on to last chance. So there in the really odd position of wanting to build up stock before they discontinue something.
Once they start deleting troop choices for there own forces(not marines) then that's pretty much game over for Forgeworld as an independent part of the company.
So it went somthing like this right.
Step 1 - Release Mechanicum to an enthusiastic public
Step 2 - announce that there will be no 40k rules
Step3 - watch sales drop
Step4- announce 40k rules are coming
Step5 - spike in sales followed by 4yesrs of it is coming honest
Step6 - sales are low so we're no longer releasing 40k rules
Step7 - start killing range
Step8 - ???
Step9 - profit?
Lord Damocles wrote: 'We know that we're going to drop these products, we've made the advertising saying that we're going to drop these products, but the timing of when we drop these products is totally up in the air and we have no idea because apparently we make decisions like that on a whim.'
It does make some sense, especially if you assume that FW is operating under GW's information control policy and not allowed to announce a date even if they have one already set. They're almost certainly going to go OOP, but FW has to consider how to schedule the expected demand for them while they're on LCTB. And it's completely believable that they've been picked to be discontinued but the process of finalizing a schedule isn't complete.
Davespil wrote: No kidding. I wish everyone would stop crying about them discontinuing things that didn' t sell. You had a year or so to get it.
People are unhappy because it's a choice that makes zero sense. These are resin kits, a medium perfectly suited to a cast-on-demand business model. It costs FW nothing to keep the store entry and molds available, and they only have to pull the molds out and cast something if a customer has handed over cash for it. Who cares if it only sells one copy a decade, keeping the kit in stock to make that single sale costs the same as throwing away the molds and discontinuing it. But apparently GW continues to be incapable of making obvious business choices and insists on treating FW like a garage kit business where "my wife says I have to clean out the storage closet" is a likely event.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SeanDrake wrote: Once they start deleting troop choices for there own forces(not marines) then that's pretty much game over for Forgeworld as an independent part of the company.
To be fair, the very vague banner doesn't specify which of the kits are going OOP. It could be all of the different variants, it could be "we saw that {special weapon option} has terrible rules and doesn't sell so we're discontinuing it and leaving the ones that do sell". But I agree that it doesn't make sense to cut the whole line. They're a core of the army, probably the best troops option they have, and seem to be popular on the painting side. Cutting them would just be handing free sales to the recasters.
It costs money to store a mould, it costs just as much money to store an unused mould as one used every day. To suggest it's still worth keeping a mould for one sale a decade is ludicrous.
Now I'll admit I know nothing about the sizes of these moulds or their values but to store them means either storing them on site - which fills volume of possible moulds to store on site, or it means storing them off site and renting somewhere to do so.
On site has capacity, why use that space for a once in a lifetime sale? Seems pointless to me. They have no more room to expand in to on the Nottingham site so there is a finite amount of room.
If they store a mould off site it means they need to keep tabs on it, pay for storage, dedicate time and money to bringing it back to the factory to be used. It's just not as simple as "it costs nothing" - it costs a lot. In my job we store a lot of documents off site and it costs a fortune just to pay for rental space.
Forge World clearly do not have machines sat doing nothing all day waiting for someone to order a kit, they are producing kits regularly. So scheduling in that once in a decade sale would mean resetting all manner of machines and schedules and disrupt other product availability.
That's not to say they couldn't sell it with a minimum order count - they notify you when there's enough interest and when the minimum X people pay for it that registered the interest they bring the mould out.
Or
They could have a minimum really high turnaround time (100 days+) on a kit that doesn't sell often so they could schedule it when it suits them
But that's faff. And faff costs time and money too. So it's better in terms of cost to just retire stuff that doesn't sell.
PS - i've heard it's just the non special weapons thallax squads going.
Now I'll admit I know nothing about the sizes of these moulds or their values...
Then why are you holding forth on the subject? Unless FW are being gratuitously wasteful with their silicone, they should be able to fit all the molds for any given product entry(a squad of infantry, a tank etc) into a shoebox for all but the big stuff. Hell I could probably store most of FW's range just by lining the walls of my one bedroom flat with bookshelves. The only real "cost" in keeping low sales volume products available is when the molds wear out and need to be replaced, which can require a good few hours of labour, but stored properly molds will last for years and years without being used, and good quality silicone properly cared for(which FW do, judging by the amount of 'orrible greasy mold release you often find on their stuff when you order) can get dozens of flawless pulls and sometimes hundreds of slightly imperfect ones after that depending on how many overhangs and intricate & rough details are on the cast, so if they're only having to cast something say five times a year it could be a decade or more before replacing the molds becomes a consideration. And doing the actual casts isn't some epic, production line-disrupting task like it is with injection molded plastics, you literally just mix a cup of resin, pour it in, stick it in a pressure chamber for a wee while and then pull the cast, most commercial casting resins have a demold time of a few hours at most.
As for "what's the point" - goodwill? Giving customers the impression that you're committed to the products you produce and aren't going to just discontinue half of them while people are only part way through buying armies from you at great expense? Maintaining the appearance that FW is a boutique entity distinct from GWHQ that exists to cater to artistic whim and veteran customers with high quality niche products? Dismissing "intangible" value is the reason GW canned the specialist games last time around, but as usual they seem to have learned the lesson only in very specific terms and continue to make the same mistakes elsewhere.
People are unhappy because it's a choice that makes zero sense. These are resin kits, a medium perfectly suited to a cast-on-demand business model. It costs FW nothing to keep the store entry and molds available, and they only have to pull the molds out and cast something if a customer has handed over cash for it. Who cares if it only sells one copy a decade, keeping the kit in stock to make that single sale costs the same as throwing away the molds and discontinuing it.
Molds take up quite a bit of space, especially if you are being efficient and making gang molds (multiple casts of a piece or pieces from a single mold) and apparently space has become an issue at GW. With a set of gang molds you also end up with multiple sets of cast miniatures, not just one, so the excess sets need to be stored until someone orders another one.
timd wrote: Molds take up quite a bit of space, especially if you are being efficient and making gang molds (multiple casts of a piece or pieces from a single mold) and apparently space has become an issue at GW. With a set of gang molds you also end up with multiple sets of cast miniatures, not just one, so the excess sets need to be stored until someone orders another one.
Space is cheap. The cost of the warehouse space required to store all of FW's molds is a rounding error in GW's overall budget. This is what I mean about treating FW like one guy running a garage kit business. You expect that kind of operation to discontinue stuff because they run out of space in the garage and can't afford $100/month to put their spare parts in a storage unit, you don't expect it from a company with hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue.
Now I'll admit I know nothing about the sizes of these moulds or their values...
Then why are you holding forth on the subject? Unless FW are being gratuitously wasteful with their silicone, they should be able to fit all the molds for any given product entry(a squad of infantry, a tank etc) into a shoebox for all but the big stuff. Hell I could probably store most of FW's range just by lining the walls of my one bedroom flat with bookshelves. The only real "cost" in keeping low sales volume products available is when the molds wear out and need to be replaced, which can require a good few hours of labour, but stored properly molds will last for years and years without being used, and good quality silicone properly cared for(which FW do, judging by the amount of 'orrible greasy mold release you often find on their stuff when you order) can get dozens of flawless pulls and sometimes hundreds of slightly imperfect ones after that depending on how many overhangs and intricate & rough details are on the cast, so if they're only having to cast something say five times a year it could be a decade or more before replacing the molds becomes a consideration. And doing the actual casts isn't some epic, production line-disrupting task like it is with injection molded plastics, you literally just mix a cup of resin, pour it in, stick it in a pressure chamber for a wee while and then pull the cast, most commercial casting resins have a demold time of a few hours at most.
As for "what's the point" - goodwill? Giving customers the impression that you're committed to the products you produce and aren't going to just discontinue half of them while people are only part way through buying armies from you at great expense? Maintaining the appearance that FW is a boutique entity distinct from GWHQ that exists to cater to artistic whim and veteran customers with high quality niche products? Dismissing "intangible" value is the reason GW canned the specialist games last time around, but as usual they seem to have learned the lesson only in very specific terms and continue to make the same mistakes elsewhere.
Worktime of employer also costs money. Along with storage.
But sure keep on living world where company pays to sell stuff at loss just for fun if you want.
tneva82 wrote: Worktime of employer also costs money. Along with storage.
Storage is so cheap that it isn't worth considering, and labor costs are already included in the cost of the kit. Remember, you still have to store the molds for all of the in-production stuff, so the additional labor costs of keeping everything are negligible things like the employee doing the casting having to spending 10 seconds more to pull a set of molds off a shelf a few steps farther down the row in the warehouse.
But sure keep on living world where company pays to sell stuff at loss just for fun if you want.
Lots of companies sell stuff at a loss, because the net effect on their profit is positive. For example, grocery stores will take a loss on certain products just to get you in the door because they know that while you're there you'll pick up all of your other needs and many of those have a much higher profit margin. Or console manufacturers will eat a major loss on every console sold because profit matters much less than getting market share and driving sales of the games people buy to play on that console. Even if you assume that FW takes a loss occasionally (probably rarely, given that cast-on-demand as a business model only has a cost when it also has a sale) the benefits of having a more diverse model range may be worth it. For example, the commonly cited argument of "FW just does Imperial stuff, ban it" hurts FW's sales of Imperial kits because few people want to buy models they can't use. Eating a loss on every kit to keep some DE/ork/etc stuff in production undermines the anti-FW argument and has the side effect of increasing overall sales on top of whatever revenue comes in from the xenos kits.
Now I'll admit I know nothing about the sizes of these moulds or their values...
Then why are you holding forth on the subject? Unless FW are being gratuitously wasteful with their silicone, they should be able to fit all the molds for any given product entry(a squad of infantry, a tank etc) into a shoebox for all but the big stuff. Hell I could probably store most of FW's range just by lining the walls of my one bedroom flat with bookshelves. The only real "cost" in keeping low sales volume products available is when the molds wear out and need to be replaced, which can require a good few hours of labour, but stored properly molds will last for years and years without being used, and good quality silicone properly cared for(which FW do, judging by the amount of 'orrible greasy mold release you often find on their stuff when you order) can get dozens of flawless pulls and sometimes hundreds of slightly imperfect ones after that depending on how many overhangs and intricate & rough details are on the cast, so if they're only having to cast something say five times a year it could be a decade or more before replacing the molds becomes a consideration. And doing the actual casts isn't some epic, production line-disrupting task like it is with injection molded plastics, you literally just mix a cup of resin, pour it in, stick it in a pressure chamber for a wee while and then pull the cast, most commercial casting resins have a demold time of a few hours at most.
As for "what's the point" - goodwill? Giving customers the impression that you're committed to the products you produce and aren't going to just discontinue half of them while people are only part way through buying armies from you at great expense? Maintaining the appearance that FW is a boutique entity distinct from GWHQ that exists to cater to artistic whim and veteran customers with high quality niche products? Dismissing "intangible" value is the reason GW canned the specialist games last time around, but as usual they seem to have learned the lesson only in very specific terms and continue to make the same mistakes elsewhere.
And as you seem to know nothing about resin moulds maybe you should stop your yakking as well. I've been a Patternmaker for 23yrs so I know what nonsense your spewing
timd wrote: Molds take up quite a bit of space, especially if you are being efficient and making gang molds (multiple casts of a piece or pieces from a single mold) and apparently space has become an issue at GW. With a set of gang molds you also end up with multiple sets of cast miniatures, not just one, so the excess sets need to be stored until someone orders another one.
Space is cheap. The cost of the warehouse space required to store all of FW's molds is a rounding error in GW's overall budget. This is what I mean about treating FW like one guy running a garage kit business. You expect that kind of operation to discontinue stuff because they run out of space in the garage and can't afford $100/month to put their spare parts in a storage unit, you don't expect it from a company with hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue.
You clearly dont spend much time in england my friend. Space is certainly not cheap. (Or even available a lot of the time)
Now I'll admit I know nothing about the sizes of these moulds or their values...
Then why are you holding forth on the subject? Unless FW are being gratuitously wasteful with their silicone, they should be able to fit all the molds for any given product entry(a squad of infantry, a tank etc) into a shoebox for all but the big stuff. Hell I could probably store most of FW's range just by lining the walls of my one bedroom flat with bookshelves. The only real "cost" in keeping low sales volume products available is when the molds wear out and need to be replaced, which can require a good few hours of labour, but stored properly molds will last for years and years without being used, and good quality silicone properly cared for(which FW do, judging by the amount of 'orrible greasy mold release you often find on their stuff when you order) can get dozens of flawless pulls and sometimes hundreds of slightly imperfect ones after that depending on how many overhangs and intricate & rough details are on the cast, so if they're only having to cast something say five times a year it could be a decade or more before replacing the molds becomes a consideration. And doing the actual casts isn't some epic, production line-disrupting task like it is with injection molded plastics, you literally just mix a cup of resin, pour it in, stick it in a pressure chamber for a wee while and then pull the cast, most commercial casting resins have a demold time of a few hours at most.
As for "what's the point" - goodwill? Giving customers the impression that you're committed to the products you produce and aren't going to just discontinue half of them while people are only part way through buying armies from you at great expense? Maintaining the appearance that FW is a boutique entity distinct from GWHQ that exists to cater to artistic whim and veteran customers with high quality niche products? Dismissing "intangible" value is the reason GW canned the specialist games last time around, but as usual they seem to have learned the lesson only in very specific terms and continue to make the same mistakes elsewhere.
And as you seem to know nothing about resin moulds maybe you should stop your yakking as well. I've been a Patternmaker for 23yrs so I know what nonsense your spewing
Then I pity whoever's been employing you, because I've been molding and casting stuff for my own projects for more than a decade and what I'm "spewing" are basic facts verified by personal experience.
There’s an opportunity cost to storing low-selling molds as well- they aren’t storing molds that sell well. Simple thought, but it’s worth considering they have limited space available. If they’re planning on producing more molds for new units with limited space available, they’ll have to retire something to make room.
GoatboyBeta wrote:Could be that they have noticed the surge in demand when things go on to last chance. So there in the really odd position of wanting to build up stock before they discontinue something.
I don’t know why, but this thought just tickles me to no end.
tneva82 wrote: Worktime of employer also costs money. Along with storage.
Storage is so cheap that it isn't worth considering, and labor costs are already included in the cost of the kit. Remember, you still have to store the molds for all of the in-production stuff, so the additional labor costs of keeping everything are negligible things like the employee doing the casting having to spending 10 seconds more to pull a set of molds off a shelf a few steps farther down the row in the warehouse.
Storage in general is cheap, but online storage at the factory is not cheap as they are already struggling for space at the factory for FW for molds and stock. So, offsite storage would be cheap, onsite storage means sacrificing space for other stuff actively in use and comes at a much higher cost.
Not really, if you think about it. If FW is really being shifted to handle Specialist games, they're gonna phase out everything eventually. Not that they lower the prices, they just announce this is IT and wait for the panic buys to roll in.
I wonder if FW will take over the GW path of bringing back old kits for a limited time? “Due to popular demand, we’re taking orders for *whatever* for a limited time. Get yours now before we put them back into storage!”
Heard some rumors from someone who heard some rumors that FW Knights might be on LCTB tomorrow...
I highly doubt it. More likely you'll see transfers and the heads go. Possibly the Terryn upgrade kit.
This, especially given how poor or aesthetically different the heads are. I can't imagine the heads were big sellers, whereas, using the entirely unscientific 'what do I see on the web' rule, the Knights themselves seem to do ok.
None of those heads looked good at all. I'm happy their getting rid of them. Glad to see FW doing spring cleaning and getting rid of the garbage. Hopefully some new products will be coming soon.
It's not like GW/FW remove products based on finger in the air guesses, they know the costs of maintaining the moulds/production of them, the warehousing costs, they know it's opportunity cost, and they know their actual sales figures. No company should keep every one of their products they make available forever, it's just bad business.
Granted it sucks when they just disappear with no warning, but must stuff goes onto LCTB.
It would be nice if they started a rolling made to order programme, or even a kick starter-esque pre-order system for the less popular stuff.
The last chance to buy for some of these ranges *cough*Elysians*cough* resulted in large backlogs of orders, so there is latent demand there. FW just need to find a way of making it active.
aldo1234 wrote: I'm hoping its not too long before the Van Saar weapon packs get released, I want a full group of breach and clear suppression lasers and shields
BaronIveagh wrote: If FW is really being shifted to handle Specialist games, they're gonna phase out everything eventually.
And this is based on... ?
Because FW lacks the manpower, storage, money, and equipment to have too many projects simultaneously. So, eventually they'ed have to pick 40k or these other projects. Since GW says they want them doing the other projects, then it only stands to reason what happens next.
BaronIveagh wrote: If FW is really being shifted to handle Specialist games, they're gonna phase out everything eventually.
And this is based on... ?
Because FW lacks the manpower, storage, money, and equipment to have too many projects simultaneously. So, eventually they'ed have to pick 40k or these other projects. Since GW says they want them doing the other projects, then it only stands to reason what happens next.
People already complain about the index FW rules could you imagine how broken they would be under the GW design team.
Also you just know someone would have the bright idea of moving the models over to failcast.
MaxT wrote: It's not like GW/FW remove products based on finger in the air guesses, they know the costs of maintaining the moulds/production of them, the warehousing costs, they know it's opportunity cost, and they know their actual sales figures. No company should keep every one of their products they make available forever, it's just bad business.
Granted it sucks when they just disappear with no warning, but must stuff goes onto LCTB.
Part of the lack of profitability stems from the same thing that led GW to kill off specialist games - release thing and then proceed to ignore thing (bar minor edition related rules tweaks every now and then). Funnily enough, stuff that gets ignored stops being purchased.
A lot of stuff's most recent boost would have been from second editions of their Imperial Armour book, many of which are years old or never came to be.
LCTB isn't much better than no warning and if you do several weeks of stuff as they have done recently it prices people out who can't suddenly spring a few hundred pounds.
Well I sure am glad that the Knight head which Forgeworld advertised as Last Chance To Buy, then said wasn't Last Chance To Buy, is now no longer available, and so it clearly was the last chance to buy it despite Forgeworld saying that it wasn't.
That wasn't a complete shambles at all.
Just as well I ordered mine when they said that it wasn't the last chance.
I wonder if they'll still use the advert with it on..?
People already complain about the index FW rules could you imagine how broken they would be under the GW design team.
Also you just know someone would have the bright idea of moving the models over to failcast.
Wow, did you just post from 2007 or have you not had anything to do with 40k for a while? (BTW Failcast is dead)
Eldar aspect warriors, Tau charictors, Flayedones, heavy destroyers are all failcast, so clearly not dead.
You checked the eldar codex's, full of game breaking BS.
-3 to hit is balanced and fun, strategum of not today, doesn't screw over armies that rely on strategums.
Ice_can wrote: You checked the eldar codex's, full of game breaking BS.
-3 to hit is balanced and fun, strategum of not today, doesn't screw over armies that rely on strategums.
It's full of BS thanks to Phil Kelly's incompetence for three straight editions (potentially four, no idea if he wrote 8th ed eldar too, but their current power level had to be either Kelly's influence or someone too afraid to nerf them too much from the OP gak that was 6th and 7th) and making his pet army broken to win in-office matches.
Even so, Eldar are outlier in 8th and besides, are now the most balanced they were in ages (especially thanks to DR stupidity being partially fixed). Funnily enough, virtually all efforts to counter Eldar I saw on the net were made up with pay-to-win FW junk. Various kinds of leviathans, relic dreads, fire raptors, Tau crap, lots of cherrypicked nonsense being straight up better than regular units (or even whole armies, see FW chaos renegades and IG when 8th dropped), yeah, FW is really "balanced" if people expect it to counter broken units, eh?
changemod wrote: Given the FW and specialist games open day is next Sunday, shouldn’t we have heard something about it by now?
I’m going, but honestly all I know is I have a ticket and when it is.
I'd expect some pictures nearer the end of the week if there is anything new to buy for the Sunday. Not expecting a lot, probably slightly different preview shots to the same models I've seen at the last few events. I'm only going because all my mates are, we are going for lunch afterwards, and its down the road.
Apologies, didn't see it mentioned on the last few pages, but has it been noted that the airbrush paint range is on LCTB? Probably not as big a deal as miniatures to most people, but bad news for the people who use them.
Tim the Biovore wrote: Apologies, didn't see it mentioned on the last few pages, but has it been noted that the airbrush paint range is on LCTB? Probably not as big a deal as miniatures to most people, but bad news for the people who use them.
I'm amazed it lasted this long with the main GW paint range now having an Air product line.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Maybe their seminar this time around will include a preview of all the models that will soon be added to the Last Chance to Buy section?
Any mention of seminars has disappeared online.... hope this isn't going to be like the terrible AoS days which was basically "look what's in white dwarf July" day.
Ice_can wrote: You checked the eldar codex's, full of game breaking BS.
-3 to hit is balanced and fun, strategum of not today, doesn't screw over armies that rely on strategums.
It's full of BS thanks to Phil Kelly's incompetence for three straight editions (potentially four, no idea if he wrote 8th ed eldar too, but their current power level had to be either Kelly's influence or someone too afraid to nerf them too much from the OP gak that was 6th and 7th) and making his pet army broken to win in-office matches.
Even so, Eldar are outlier in 8th and besides, are now the most balanced they were in ages (especially thanks to DR stupidity being partially fixed). Funnily enough, virtually all efforts to counter Eldar I saw on the net were made up with pay-to-win FW junk. Various kinds of leviathans, relic dreads, fire raptors, Tau crap, lots of cherrypicked nonsense being straight up better than regular units (or even whole armies, see FW chaos renegades and IG when 8th dropped), yeah, FW is really "balanced" if people expect it to counter broken units, eh?
Nobody claims fw is perfect balance. That's impossible. But it's more balanced than gw codexes that contains highest % of broken stuff and most broken stuff in power.
There's reason you don't see fw in top tables. Gw stuff is better.
Oh my god that still doesn’t have rules for the misericordia
At least they addressed why:
Forgeworld wrote:The Misericordia is a symbol of office for the Legio Custodes; it has no in-game use and can be ignored on any unit entry which lists it as a piece
of wargear
Oh my god that still doesn’t have rules for the misericordia
At least they addressed why:
Forgeworld wrote:The Misericordia is a symbol of office for the Legio Custodes; it has no in-game use and can be ignored on any unit entry which lists it as a piece
of wargear
They spent ten thousand years in the palace installing power fields in their knives, huh.
*Nerfs to Preternatural skill.
*Shields are +1 to invul.
*Shields no longer allow rerolls.
*Valdor lost 1 attack.
*Dreadspear is 20 points more expensive.
*Boltodes are now assault 3 instead of heavy 3 - such buffs, wow.
*Power talons are +2S instead of +1. - and the point of that waaas? +1 was still enough to wound Marines and T3 on 2+...Punch through AV13 on 6?
I guess this brought Custodes from top tier to somewhat middle up.
*Boltodes are now assault 3 instead of heavy 3 - such buffs, wow.
.
I'm hoping that this is a sign of how the stats will work in their 40k Rules. Assault Heavy bolters with decentish AP, and a combi-weapon underslung will make 40k Custodes awesome.
*Boltodes are now assault 3 instead of heavy 3 - such buffs, wow.
.
I'm hoping that this is a sign of how the stats will work in their 40k Rules. Assault Heavy bolters with decentish AP, and a combi-weapon underslung will make 40k Custodes awesome.
*Boltodes are now assault 3 instead of heavy 3 - such buffs, wow.
.
I'm hoping that this is a sign of how the stats will work in their 40k Rules. Assault Heavy bolters with decentish AP, and a combi-weapon underslung will make 40k Custodes awesome.
It'd definitely make them interesting, especially if the disintegrator beam ends up dishing out mortal wounds like you'd think it would.
It needs to be something bonkers like AoS breath weapons where there’s no stat-line; you just roll to hit and it deals D3 mortal wounds. Or it deals 1 MW to the wielder on a 1 on the hit roll.
*Boltodes are now assault 3 instead of heavy 3 - such buffs, wow.
.
I'm hoping that this is a sign of how the stats will work in their 40k Rules. Assault Heavy bolters with decentish AP, and a combi-weapon underslung will make 40k Custodes awesome.
Especially if they can take a misericordia.
Quoted for truth.
A unit like this, deepstriking, could nuke and area around them of infantry. Even if there was anyone around them to counter-assault them, having 3 strength 5 attacks each with power knives doesn't exactly make them tempting targets.
*Boltodes are now assault 3 instead of heavy 3 - such buffs, wow.
.
I'm hoping that this is a sign of how the stats will work in their 40k Rules. Assault Heavy bolters with decentish AP, and a combi-weapon underslung will make 40k Custodes awesome.
That actually turns them from unusable in 30k to kinda mediocre in 30k. I was surprised they weren't Assault in the first place.
Oh my god that still doesn’t have rules for the misericordia
At least they addressed why:
Forgeworld wrote:The Misericordia is a symbol of office for the Legio Custodes; it has no in-game use and can be ignored on any unit entry which lists it as a piece
of wargear
They spent ten thousand years in the palace installing power fields in their knives, huh.
Yeah, to turn them into (illuminated) badges of office.
Forgeworld wrote:The Misericordia is a symbol of office for the Legio Custodes; it has no in-game use and can be ignored on any unit entry which lists it as a piece
of wargear
It's such a lazy excuse though. Optional knife is now a symbol of office? What? Not, say, something iconic and unique, like oh, a guardian spear, or armor festooned with eagles and thunderbolts, or being supermen taller than the astartes, emperor's elite is identifiable by inert, glued to scabbards, gilded toothpicks?
Well, if we’re talking about not reading external things that give context, people have already replied to me on that a few times...
It’s also a bit ridiculous to put it away from the other custodes FAQs, and still doesn’t qualify as giving rules. If the original intent was for it to be a flavour detail that does nothing, it shouldn’t have been a rule in the first place.
Forgeworld wrote:The Misericordia is a symbol of office for the Legio Custodes; it has no in-game use and can be ignored on any unit entry which lists it as a piece
of wargear
It's such a lazy excuse though. Optional knife is now a symbol of office? What? Not, say, something iconic and unique, like oh, a guardian spear, or armor festooned with eagles and thunderbolts, or being supermen taller than the astartes, emperor's elite is identifiable by inert, glued to scabbards, gilded toothpicks?
10' guy dressed in solid gold shows up in Emperor's Palace carrying a spear the size of a lamppost and asks to be let in. Custodeus points to a sign "No Misericordia, no service'.
I can't tell you how many assassinations have been foiled by that simple precaution.
Forgeworld wrote:The Misericordia is a symbol of office for the Legio Custodes; it has no in-game use and can be ignored on any unit entry which lists it as a piece
of wargear
It's such a lazy excuse though. Optional knife is now a symbol of office? What? Not, say, something iconic and unique, like oh, a guardian spear, or armor festooned with eagles and thunderbolts, or being supermen taller than the astartes, emperor's elite is identifiable by inert, glued to scabbards, gilded toothpicks?
Of course its lazy, its FW/GW we are talking about, did you expect something else?
My guess is that they forgot to give it rules first time around (or usual copy and paste error resulting in the rules going missing from the printed version), then decided the boys in gold had enough cool stuff (as everybody was complaining at every FW event I went to directly to the rules team) so weren't going to give them any additional wargear. Or, my other guess, is that it'll do something when the Emperor shows up.
Just for 39.99 this book will get you new zoomable pictures, 360 degree pictures of miniatures, more panoramic pictures and, obviously, very handy links to the store!
The iPad books are better, IMO, than the regular ebook format. I don't know what the reasons are for them being iPad only, but the internal links between army list entries, weapon stats and special rules make them nice and easy to use.
I got my rogue psykers and apostate preachers a while ago as my first dip into forgeworld just because they looked cool. It's a shame to see them going.
Looky Likey wrote: They have to save this week's release of Legion themed rhino doors till Sunday so the open day has something new to release as an exclusive.
Okay, but they generally reveal these exclusives a week in advance. I’m not holding out hope there’ll be anything exclusive now.
General Kroll wrote: Before long there won’t be much of anything left that’s not Space Marine related.
Certainly looking that way. Not entirely sure what is going on inside GW/FWatm. We just lost all of the metal guard regiments, now this. I use those chaos renegades in my army as ganger conscripts (the ones without chaos insignia). Shame to see them go.
General Kroll wrote: Before long there won’t be much of anything left that’s not Space Marine related.
Certainly looking that way. Not entirely sure what is going on inside GW/FWatm. We just lost all of the metal guard regiments, now this. I use those chaos renegades in my army as ganger conscripts (the ones without chaos insignia). Shame to see them go.
Just a stab in the dark, but I wouldn't be at all surprised is plastic versions of all this stuff is coming in the future. IF I was a betting man, I'd say that the New Rouge Trader "Guardsmen" are going to update the loyalist range, and their LaTD models will be the new renegades, all ported directly into current 40K lore with plastic ranges.
Was planning on making a Renegades Killteam once the game was published at the end of the month (probably using the Astra Militarum rules but was waiting for the actual book to decide). This LCTB has really put a brief end to that plan.
Oh look, another range that was basically unsupported bar occasional edition updates after the initial IA campaign book debut is being scrapped as it doesn't sell. It's almost as though if you ignore something peoples' interest in the product or awareness that it exists wanes.
3rd parties like Anvil (who have some traitor and heretics stuff in the worls for their Regiments line) Puppets War and Mad Robot would be fairly pleased with this development I'd have thought.
Usually ships within 35 days . Wow. Made to Order?
Seeing the Renegades go is sad - they made the Guard plastics look good. And hey, they told us to use Rogue Psykers for Necromunda only a few month ago.
hobojebus wrote: You think recasters send them thank you cards when they do this?
Doubt it it's nearly all low sales volume items.
Which are supposed to be the whole point of Forgeworld as a company.
When you're the low sales volume selling items in the segment of the company that sells lower than normal volume then we are likely talking REALLY slow sales. And honestly with GW and FW loading themselves up with a lot more products that are selling and where there is demand I suspect that niche stuff is going to keep vanishing. There likely isn't room in the release schedual nor work rota to fit in a lot of these army types for a larger release for a long while.
It's sad to see things go, but at the same time I'd rather FW cut some stuff and then focused on producing more stuff that can and will sell
hobojebus wrote: You think recasters send them thank you cards when they do this?
Doubt it it's nearly all low sales volume items.
Which are supposed to be the whole point of Forgeworld as a company.
When you're the low sales volume selling items in the segment of the company that sells lower than normal volume then we are likely talking REALLY slow sales. And honestly with GW and FW loading themselves up with a lot more products that are selling and where there is demand I suspect that niche stuff is going to keep vanishing. There likely isn't room in the release schedual nor work rota to fit in a lot of these army types for a larger release for a long while.
It's sad to see things go, but at the same time I'd rather FW cut some stuff and then focused on producing more stuff that can and will sell
I had this argument a couple of pages ago - TL;DR, it costs them almost nothing to keep these products available, and it's certainly worth the goodwill.
It is not in any way a zero sum situation unless FW are in the kind of serious trouble in terms of their storage and casting facilities that makes dumping a handful of underperforming products like trying to stop a bleeding artery with a sticking plaster, in which case what they need is for GW to expand their facilities to the level necessary to support the range of products they're supposed to be selling. Hell they could put all this stuff into the "ships within 35 days" made to order timescale on a permanent basis and they wouldn't have to keep even a single cast in stock, just budget a couple of hours a month for the casting team to run up however many pre-paid orders have come in.
More & more this looks to me like it's not a case of necessity at all, it's GW-proper reorienting FW to basically serve as their low-volume casting house to replace metal/finecast going forward, for AoS in particular. If so that'd be a damn shame.
So, GW just teased about EU Day, but FW/Specialist is tomorrow and there has been zero info on what's going on.
Either they have so much stuff prepared (hence clearing shelf space with lctb), or they have absolutely nothing new and will end up showing painted Scoria and some 3 year old concept from Cyraxus
CragHack wrote: So, GW just teased about EU Day, but FW/Specialist is tomorrow and there has been zero info on what's going on.
Either they have so much stuff prepared (hence clearing shelf space with lctb), or they have absolutely nothing new and will end up showing painted Scoria and some 3 year old concept from Cyraxus
I’m taking a three day round trip to visit this event so I’m not exactly thrilled about that.
Still, I can at least pick up an Ixion Hale I guess.
Well EU day is probably going to be loaded up with Titanicus stuff; plus its a major European event and new so makes sense that they are bigging it up.
I think FW is in a transitional phase and thus at present we are seeing things lost in advance of seeing more stuff come out; however there is likely a lag time; they might only have greens and concepts at present rather than models; but we can wait in hope.
I hope that when it's the Ork turn to lose all of their stuff, I have enough to pick up the Gargantuan Squiggoth or the Kill Blaster.
I do think that they are heading for a model where forgeworld only sell stuff for the newer specialist games, eg titanicus, killteam and necromunda etc. As they're the team that will be driving them IIRC.
Rinky I don't think so since they've already announced that they've put together a Sigmar team for that whole range. Plus they've teased several new 40K focused models over the last months such as the new Necron knight scale unit.
What we are seeing is them focusing and cutting out a lot of stuff that just hasn't sold well for a long time or is/was part of a larger release that now isn't coming.
Backlash tomorrow morning if it's as bad as it's looking should be interesting..... I don't get why FW is potentially frustrating people spending money to visit them ?
Trying to resist buying more renegades. got most of the sets already but they've been boxed for ages. might just go for the psykers as i don't have them yet.
CragHack wrote: FW/Specialist is also sold out. So unless they do like 200 tickets, I wouldn't call it small. GW event is a MONTH away and they are already teasing.
Still, I can at least pick up an Ixion Hale I guess.
Rinkydink wrote: I hope that when it's the Ork turn to lose all of their stuff, I have enough to pick up the Gargantuan Squiggoth or the Kill Blaster.
I do think that they are heading for a model where forgeworld only sell stuff for the newer specialist games, eg titanicus, killteam and necromunda etc. As they're the team that will be driving them IIRC.
Orks have already lost loads iirc. Not in this latest wave of multiple consecutive weeks of lctb, but in a previous one and before we even got lctb warnings.
I picked up 20 torsos. Was planning on getting way more in the future, so this is pretty annoying for me. I really like the look of the gas masks.
The disappearance of the old metal IG regiments and the traitor guard models makes me think there must be something in the pipeline. I won't hold my breath though. That wouldn't explain the disappearance of a few of the models in the range though, unless they will be replaced.
Kill Team would be an extremely sensible way to re-intoduce the Lost and Damned in plastic, especially with what we've seen from Rogue Trader.
The same would make sense for giving us plastic Regiments. Not holding my breath for either - GW are just as likely to put out more Cadians instead at this point...
Getting rid of Elysians would also support the idea of a new plastic set in the works with new FW components to support them ala the Heresy components to go with the newer plastics.
Dedwoods42 wrote: Kill Team would be an extremely sensible way to re-intoduce the Lost and Damned in plastic, especially with what we've seen from Rogue Trader. The same would make sense for giving us plastic Regiments. Not holding my breath for either - GW are just as likely to put out more Cadians instead at this point...
Was it the release of Scions, a whole new style of Stormtrooper and a massive reworking of the Stormtrooper fluff, rather than Kasrkin(essentially a localized variant of Stormtroopers) that made you think GW is more likely to put out more Cadians?
If we see anything for Cadians, it's likely to be a refresh of the basic Infantry kit to include some new options like we saw with the Tau Fire Warriors. I'm genuinely expecting a rejig of what Heavy Weapons can be taken in a Guard Infantry/Veteran Squad--expecting it to drop down to Missile Launchers, Heavy Stubbers, and a few other things that could conceivably be operated by a single person while the Heavy Weapon Teams retain the Mortars, Heavy Bolters, Autocannons, etc. I'd expect to potentially see the Heavy Weapon Squad box rejigged as well to also be able to be a Special Weapon Squad box as both would have 6 'models' effectively--3 with Lasguns and 3 with the main weapon.
People are overestimating what the various Regiments would need as well. There's a way to do things but it won't be pretty for anyone wanting to do an army. A single infantry box, a Heavy Weapon Squad/SWS box, and a Command Squad box--one of the three boxes could have spare bits ala the Wrack box for vehicle crew figures in your 'style'.
Dedwoods42 wrote: Kill Team would be an extremely sensible way to re-intoduce the Lost and Damned in plastic, especially with what we've seen from Rogue Trader.
The same would make sense for giving us plastic Regiments. Not holding my breath for either - GW are just as likely to put out more Cadians instead at this point...
Was it the release of Scions, a whole new style of Stormtrooper and a massive reworking of the Stormtrooper fluff, rather than Kasrkin(essentially a localized variant of Stormtroopers) that made you think GW is more likely to put out more Cadians?
If we see anything for Cadians, it's likely to be a refresh of the basic Infantry kit to include some new options like we saw with the Tau Fire Warriors. I'm genuinely expecting a rejig of what Heavy Weapons can be taken in a Guard Infantry/Veteran Squad--expecting it to drop down to Missile Launchers, Heavy Stubbers, and a few other things that could conceivably be operated by a single person while the Heavy Weapon Teams retain the Mortars, Heavy Bolters, Autocannons, etc. I'd expect to potentially see the Heavy Weapon Squad box rejigged as well to also be able to be a Special Weapon Squad box as both would have 6 'models' effectively--3 with Lasguns and 3 with the main weapon.
People are overestimating what the various Regiments would need as well. There's a way to do things but it won't be pretty for anyone wanting to do an army. A single infantry box, a Heavy Weapon Squad/SWS box, and a Command Squad box--one of the three boxes could have spare bits ala the Wrack box for vehicle crew figures in your 'style'.
Dunno. Many kit-refreshs after the Scions have had a tendency to build a whole (mini-faction) around a formerly single codex entry such as Harlequins, Rubric Marines or Plague Marines. Seems that's more profitable to GW than simply doing the one ancient non-plastic Codex-entry in plastic without other add-ons.
If there're now "Guardsmen", it'll probably end up being its own spin-off Codex with some more unique units, not just a new kit to use with the existing AM Codex (doubly so, if GW needs to find ideas for Codex releases for 2019, 2020, etc. once all the existing armies have an 8th edition book).
Overread wrote: Rinky I don't think so since they've already announced that they've put together a Sigmar team for that whole range. Plus they've teased several new 40K focused models over the last months such as the new Necron knight scale unit.
What we are seeing is them focusing and cutting out a lot of stuff that just hasn't sold well for a long time or is/was part of a larger release that now isn't coming.
They put together a Sigmar team and then kill the extra stuff for the Free Guild. It does not make any sense.
They don’t even have warscrolls for everything in the AoS range. I imagine it will be monsters and marines by the tie they are finished.
Dunno. Many kit-refreshs after the Scions have had a tendency to build a whole (mini-faction) around a formerly single codex entry such as Harlequins, Rubric Marines or Plague Marines. Seems that's more profitable to GW than simply doing the one ancient non-plastic Codex-entry in plastic without other add-ons.
Harlequins were their own army before becoming a single unit entry in the two Eldar books. Tzeentch and Death Guard got the same treatment that Khorne did with their Daemonkin book.
You're also forgetting that the Skitarii, Scions, and Farsight Enclaves(two of which had their own mini-dex while the third radically altered the codex itself) have been rolled into their codices proper.
If there're now "Guardsmen", it'll probably end up being its own spin-off Codex with some more unique units, not just a new kit to use with the existing AM Codex (doubly so, if GW needs to find ideas for Codex releases for 2019, 2020, etc. once all the existing armies have an 8th edition book).
I don't think they're lacking for ideas for codices.
CragHack wrote: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1710575492567307/ Next time you can just ask people in this group to pick something for you, if you are unable to do it by yourself
Verviedi wrote: How’d I manage to miss the fact that Open Day is tomorrow? Will watch with interest for the latest exact same 3-year-old Cyraxus slideshow.
Sorry to disappoint already but it seems the seminars have been quietly removed..... TBF they said at Warhammer fest that it's basically on the back burner and the next books are talons and heresy book 8, then a focus on Titanicus and filling gaps in the Heresy range, alongside LOTR.
Verviedi wrote: How’d I manage to miss the fact that Open Day is tomorrow? Will watch with interest for the latest exact same 3-year-old Cyraxus slideshow.
Because tomorrow is likely to be a disaster on a par to that infamous UK gamesday that nearly killed them off.
Seminars all quietly given the emperor's mercy because they have nothing to talk about as GW have "advised" that the Tatanicus and Necro unveils will be at the European gamesday which is the next "major" event.
They cannot talk about new books as there are none after they were told to squat the IA books and other stuff they have been working on to do 3 other books requested by GW and to finish off that HH line thingy.
Expect to see a few HH models that may be available at some point for a few weeks. However in an exciting new twist rather than pre relase miniatures you will get to see the exciting line up of future LCTB miniatures and will have 1st chance to purchase them.
You will get to speak to a number of depressed and sheepish writers who will give non committal answers to every question and a member of management to blow smoke up your ass and ensure company line is toes.
Sadly there will be no sculptors present as FW proper no longer has a team just 1 guy so he is strangely busy considering the lack of product. Also there will be no members of the casting team present as they have been chained to there workstations to attempt to meet production targets of all the products that don't sell, please ignore any muffled screams or calls for help.
Remember this is new GW kindly do not look behind the curtains.
@Seandrake your description of depressed writers and management is spot on to how it's been last couple of HQ events. I don't doubt they are talented people but most are obviously not comfortable in the setting they are in.
I think a tad too pessimistic on Titanicus as the blurb for 'fest talks about a new game being released then so it's likely Titanicus is released that weekend.i don't think we will get much more than a look at components in a cabinet though.
I always look forward to this event so I'm hoping to be surprised but I suspect for the first time in years I'll be coming awY disappointed and not spent much. Ofc if they early release the Sisters of Silence character then all is forgiven
There had better be a more in depth cawdor reveal and news on gang war 4 contents, it's about time. Going by how GW has been doing things with necro Cawdor should be due out the first half of august. They haven't even done a proper reveal video for Cawdor like they did the first 4 gangs. A small teaser of chaosdwarfs/undead/lizardmen (I hope) for blood bowl also couldn't hurt.
I guess I should just prepare myself for disappointment.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But Sean, they have a Facebook page now. And a YouTube channel! GW have changed!
You'll find that many companies have that double face. They will present themselves as very friendly to the customer but then have horrible condition to their employees. Is actually, at least in Spain, very common. The better one companny treats you the customer, the worst it is to his own employees. I don't know why.
Galas wrote: You'll find that many companies have that double face. They will present themselves as very friendly to the customer but then have horrible condition to their employees. Is actually, at least in Spain, very common. The better one companny treats you the customer, the worst it is to his own employees. I don't know why.
Oh I'm well aware. I just like to make fun of those who think that GW having a good social media presence some how makes up for (or even wipes away) all the bs they've done in the past, and continue to do to this day.
Not sure if you are implying it looks great or terrible. In terms of previews it looks like today's main focus is the new lotr stuff. I can't believe GW are releasing 4 different big boxed games in 3 months. If they launched over the course of a year I would probably buy all of them, but as it is I am probably going to stick with soul wars for now.
I am very happy with the increased variety of products that forgeworld is putting out, but I can understand Heresy players feeling a bit left out.
Chikout wrote: Not sure if you are implying it looks great or terrible.
I can't see how anyone can say anything but 'great' for these. Recent PA releases from FW were all terrible, from Red Scorpions to Custodes, but BA and AL shown today are ace...
EDIT - Though on second look, hands on the above mini are falling off. If that is the best expert FW modellers could do, it looks like all the steam went into looks, none into good build
Far as I'm aware a lot of GW and FW models are not fully assembled but are tacked together. This is oft done because I think a fair few of their painting staff work with separate parts and then put them together formally.
There was a funny situation in the past when one product photo made it all the way to the box of a unit of new Eldar models and the guns weren't on the models themselves. They were fully painted and clearly between shots the swap out of one gun for another didn't take place.
Don't forget you're viewing the model at a front to corner on angle; its far longer, you can just see the back leg quite far out the rear of it in the photo (the glass and angle somewhat hides it).
The necron model has hooks to allow easy swapping and there were two weapon options on display. No price , size wise I'd guesstimate 175-250 as it looks to be on par with an imperial larger knight parts wise.
Call me pedantic - but how does he draw his sword with a scabbard like that...
Spoiler:
At the risk of upsetting every Xenos player everywhere - I hope to god they hurry up and release Praetors for all the Legions. Need me some Salamanders goodness (Alongside those' unique' stormshields that they never got )
Warpig1815 wrote: I take it that it's based on the Ancient Greek/Near East Kopis. In which case it should look like this:
Spoiler:
That would require GW artists to have ever seen an actual weapon or have some understanding of how it functions. One only has to look at or read about bolters to see how that does not happen.
Ahhh, bolters are sort of ok - the Gyrojet range of weapons from the 50's (I believe) worked on a similar principle of rocket propelled rounds - but they weren't terribly reliable. That said, GW does seem to be amusingly unaware about the need to place the ejection port in line with the barrel...
Worth mentioning that this time it seemed the staff on the various stands were far more keen to talk to people and whilst some topics were obviously no go (exact dates, exact prices, releases not shown) they were very happy to talk naturally about what was on show and to get stuff out of cabinets for photos, etc
Twilight were there any hints or pointers on the fantasy realms and the work there? Early days to be sure but be neat if there's any news on that front.
Warpig1815 wrote: Ahhh, bolters are sort of ok - the Gyrojet range of weapons from the 50's (I believe) worked on a similar principle of rocket propelled rounds - but they weren't terribly reliable. That said, GW does seem to be amusingly unaware about the need to place the ejection port in line with the barrel...
No, they aren't. And we know that precisely BECAUSE of those gyrojet rounds. The advantages of this technology are that it's nearly recoilless and allows for light weight weapons. Sort of the OPPOSITE of a bolt gun.
Sword at least has grip, compared to some bolters, so you have to give em slack, they are advancing. Soon we will even have barrel on the right side of the gun!
smurfORnot wrote: Sword at least has grip, compared to some bolters, so you have to give em slack, they are advancing. Soon we will even have barrel on the right side of the gun!
It just bothers me because, when I went to college for art, the first words out of the teachers mouth on day one of sculpting class was 'Do Your Research'.
GW wrote:The release will see a variety of different ways to get your hands on the new game, the ultimate one being the epic Grand Master Edition. This includes two(!) Warlord Titans, six Questoris Knights, a set of Adeptus Titanicus buildings and much more – including the rulebook, of course, plus Command Terminals for your Titans and Knights, Weapon cards, Mission cards, Stratagem cards, Battlefield Assets, templates and dice – literally everything you need to get started.
I'm sure I read somewhere that we were getting a couple of Reavers in the big set along with the Warlords and Knights. Has it been downsized or am I just remembering incorrectly?
smurfORnot wrote: Sword at least has grip, compared to some bolters, so you have to give em slack, they are advancing. Soon we will even have barrel on the right side of the gun!
It just bothers me because, when I went to college for art, the first words out of the teachers mouth on day one of sculpting class was 'Do Your Research'.
Yes, but problem is, it's something that just a bit of well, every day logic tells you is possible or impossible...if for example you have wider blade than sheet, don't you hear that little woice called reason or logic telling you...you can't really put that sword in nor out. If your car doesn't have steering wheel, you won't really be able to turn it,lol, it kinda does make sense, right?
Warpig1815 wrote: Ahhh, bolters are sort of ok - the Gyrojet range of weapons from the 50's (I believe) worked on a similar principle of rocket propelled rounds - but they weren't terribly reliable. That said, GW does seem to be amusingly unaware about the need to place the ejection port in line with the barrel...
No, they aren't. And we know that precisely BECAUSE of those gyrojet rounds. The advantages of this technology are that it's nearly recoilless and allows for light weight weapons. Sort of the OPPOSITE of a bolt gun.
@Baronlveagh - At the risk of veering off-topic - true the rocket-propelled part is near recoil-less, but the conventional primer used to propel the round from the barrel before ignition of the rocket would produce recoil. The Gyrojet did not use a two-stage propulsion system, like the bolt-gun is stated to. Hence, a degree of recoil will be produced by firing a .75 Calibre round (Which, if you've fired anything approaching .300 Win Mag or .50 BMG, you'll appreciate is not... inconsiderable, shall we say ). As for weight, the boltgun is still requiring a strengthened chamber and barrel (Not to mention the action in the receiver, which must be strengthened against recoil/pressure stress) due to the initial firing - especially in sustained combat where heat would begin to warp lighter components. Furthermore, combat punishes weapons - so a stronger weapon is needed. Typically, this is going to mean heavier components.
That Necron titan though...it's basically everything I wanted. Granted I always imagined more centipede but something hulking like that works excellent too.
GW wrote:The release will see a variety of different ways to get your hands on the new game, the ultimate one being the epic Grand Master Edition. This includes two(!) Warlord Titans, six Questoris Knights, a set of Adeptus Titanicus buildings and much more – including the rulebook, of course, plus Command Terminals for your Titans and Knights, Weapon cards, Mission cards, Stratagem cards, Battlefield Assets, templates and dice – literally everything you need to get started.
I'm sure I read somewhere that we were getting a couple of Reavers in the big set along with the Warlords and Knights. Has it been downsized or am I just remembering incorrectly?
You may be remembering something from the more recent pages of the dedicated AT thread here, where someone else made a similar error then later retracted it.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Surprised that there was nothing shown for IK. Especially after the community site teased an Armiger variant.
It's been reported that they're cutting down on the amount of stuff they preview - they've shown some things off too early in the past apparently, according to Tony Cottrell. Everything seen today is meant to be released within 4 months.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Surprised that there was nothing shown for IK. Especially after the community site teased an Armiger variant.
It's been reported that they're cutting down on the amount of stuff they preview - they've shown some things off too early in the past apparently, according to Tony Cottrell. Everything seen today is meant to be released within 4 months.
Translation: they took too much crap from the Fires book disappearing, so the are limiting previews.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Surprised that there was nothing shown for IK. Especially after the community site teased an Armiger variant.
It's been reported that they're cutting down on the amount of stuff they preview - they've shown some things off too early in the past apparently, according to Tony Cottrell. Everything seen today is meant to be released within 4 months.
Translation: they took too much crap from the Fires book disappearing, so the are limiting previews.
Possibly, but it goes back to Bran Redmaw (and continues with the Atomantic Pavaise).
Anyone know from prior experience about how long it takes for the necromunda gang upgrades to go from a preview like this to on sale?
Got my eye on those orlock weapons!
Sentionaut wrote: Anyone know from prior experience about how long it takes for the necromunda gang upgrades to go from a preview like this to on sale?
Got my eye on those orlock weapons!
They were on-sale there today, so shouldn't be too long.
Warpig1815 wrote: Ahhh, bolters are sort of ok - the Gyrojet range of weapons from the 50's (I believe) worked on a similar principle of rocket propelled rounds - but they weren't terribly reliable. That said, GW does seem to be amusingly unaware about the need to place the ejection port in line with the barrel...
No, they aren't. And we know that precisely BECAUSE of those gyrojet rounds. The advantages of this technology are that it's nearly recoilless and allows for light weight weapons. Sort of the OPPOSITE of a bolt gun.
@Baronlveagh - At the risk of veering off-topic - true the rocket-propelled part is near recoil-less, but the conventional primer used to propel the round from the barrel before ignition of the rocket would produce recoil. The Gyrojet did not use a two-stage propulsion system, like the bolt-gun is stated to. Hence, a degree of recoil will be produced by firing a .75 Calibre round (Which, if you've fired anything approaching .300 Win Mag or .50 BMG, you'll appreciate is not... inconsiderable, shall we say ). As for weight, the boltgun is still requiring a strengthened chamber and barrel (Not to mention the action in the receiver, which must be strengthened against recoil/pressure stress) due to the initial firing - especially in sustained combat where heat would begin to warp lighter components. Furthermore, combat punishes weapons - so a stronger weapon is needed. Typically, this is going to mean heavier components.
I've fired several 'destructive devices' in the past. The problem is that you're assuming that the priming charge is the equivalent to a modern rifle round. It would be much smaller, in order to not damage (or worse, prematurely detonate) the bolt round before it ignites it's rocket motor. Given the stated weight of a bolt, we're talking maybe the equivalent of a 9mm handgun. If it were powerful enough to fire the bolt rifle style, there would be no need for the second stage, so all that initial charge does is push it out the barrel and ignite the rocket.
Warpig1815 wrote: Call me pedantic - but how does he draw his sword with a scabbard like that...
Spoiler:
Simple, activates the power field first
Is there a line - that may be a split - along the bottom of the scabbard, or am I imagining it (and if it is there, he's going to cut his fingers off)?
Warpig1815 wrote: Call me pedantic - but how does he draw his sword with a scabbard like that...
Spoiler:
Simple, activates the power field first
Is there a line - that may be a split - along the bottom of the scabbard, or am I imagining it (and if it is there, he's going to cut his fingers off)?
Overread wrote: Twilight were there any hints or pointers on the fantasy realms and the work there? Early days to be sure but be neat if there's any news on that front.
No the AOS bit was literally the same guys as the AOS Open day with the same damn Chaos Dragon master model that's been dragged around events since 2015 with umpteen changes and the painted version. It's nice but I can see it being at least £300, pain in the ass to transport, slaves to darkness are not exactly popular either and they'll either have to give it rules to fit its mass - it is the biggest AOS model I have seen that isn't scenery (rough size would be one and half times the length of smaug from hobbit and around one and a half time the height of the carmine dragon, width I dunno what to compare it to) - or it'll be rubbish rules on an expensive model. I seriously don't know why they made it given the stuff they could be doing and that would sell more.
The general rule for these events now is that the staff will talk about what you can see but no prices, no definite dates, no speculation on what you cannot see. Even in the Forge World store at WHW the AoS stuff has been chucked out of it's cabinet and corner by Necromunda and Bloodbowl FW stuff and is now housed in what are not much different than locked ikea cabinets opposite about half the space it had before.
On balance, 40K barely had anything previewed either beyond the new model for the dreadnaught drop pod and the new necron titan thing. This was very much Specialist Games and focused on Titanicus - especially the terrain tiles which had two seperate stands (one where they were painting them, one where they displayed all the variants and the train and buildings.
Warpig1815 wrote: Ahhh, bolters are sort of ok - the Gyrojet range of weapons from the 50's (I believe) worked on a similar principle of rocket propelled rounds - but they weren't terribly reliable. That said, GW does seem to be amusingly unaware about the need to place the ejection port in line with the barrel...
No, they aren't. And we know that precisely BECAUSE of those gyrojet rounds. The advantages of this technology are that it's nearly recoilless and allows for light weight weapons. Sort of the OPPOSITE of a bolt gun.
@Baronlveagh - At the risk of veering off-topic - true the rocket-propelled part is near recoil-less, but the conventional primer used to propel the round from the barrel before ignition of the rocket would produce recoil. The Gyrojet did not use a two-stage propulsion system, like the bolt-gun is stated to. Hence, a degree of recoil will be produced by firing a .75 Calibre round (Which, if you've fired anything approaching .300 Win Mag or .50 BMG, you'll appreciate is not... inconsiderable, shall we say ). As for weight, the boltgun is still requiring a strengthened chamber and barrel (Not to mention the action in the receiver, which must be strengthened against recoil/pressure stress) due to the initial firing - especially in sustained combat where heat would begin to warp lighter components. Furthermore, combat punishes weapons - so a stronger weapon is needed. Typically, this is going to mean heavier components.
I've fired several 'destructive devices' in the past. The problem is that you're assuming that the priming charge is the equivalent to a modern rifle round. It would be much smaller, in order to not damage (or worse, prematurely detonate) the bolt round before it ignites it's rocket motor. Given the stated weight of a bolt, we're talking maybe the equivalent of a 9mm handgun. If it were powerful enough to fire the bolt rifle style, there would be no need for the second stage, so all that initial charge does is push it out the barrel and ignite the rocket.
I'd have thought it would be equivalent to a modern round. You have to consider that we're talking about a .75 Caliber round - close in size to a 20mm shell (Well, 19.05 to be precise). A shell that size is going to need a considerable amount of propellant to get it moving down the barrel fast enough to engage a target in a timely fashion. The rocket motor, really, is just there to give the round extra energy and hence range and destructive power - but the primer is needed to enable the round to get up to speed before the target shifts. As for the premature detonation of the round - consider the enormous amounts of cordite needed to propel a battleship shell - and yet they did not readily explode in the barrel. That's mainly due to the fact that there is little pressure exerted on the round itself - more just a force pushing it along the path of least resistance.
Also, (just remembered now after writing the above) - I do believe that a good number of armies use RAP (Rocket Assisted Projectile) rounds in their artillery, with the rockets igniting after firing to provide extra energy and range. Certainly, the British AS-90 uses this system with US M549 Shells. The rockets in these shells are ignited 7 seconds after firing - which is long after the round has left the barrel and is en route to target. Perhaps the main problem with GW is that they misunderstand the functioning of RAP rounds in that the rocket provides extra imparted energy, but is not responsible for the actual propelling of the round (accomplished with the main propellant).
In any case, this debate is a touch OT. I do appreciate and respect your points, but, in principle at least, I feel the boltgun isn't quite so wild a theory.
Warpig1815 wrote:Call me pedantic - but how does he draw his sword with a scabbard like that...
Spoiler:
At the risk of upsetting every Xenos player everywhere - I hope to god they hurry up and release Praetors for all the Legions. Need me some Salamanders goodness (Alongside those' unique' stormshields that they never got )
yes, more xenos stuff(Drukhari)but I want more Salamanders badassery!
Is there a line - that may be a split - along the bottom of the scabbard, or am I imagining it (and if it is there, he's going to cut his fingers off)?
Ideally he would draw the same as Thorin draws Orcrist in the Hobbit movies; there is a slot along the bottom edge of the scabbard that allows the wide part of the blade to be drawn. What the GW sculptor missed was that you need a wide spot at the front end of the scabbard that is slightly wider than the blade to hold the opening of the scabbard open. The other concern is that is it very easy to slice off the fingers in your left hand (that are holding the scabbard) when drawing this type of blade.
I was looking forward to seeing new stuff. But it's nothing. Another flash in the pan specialist game, and nothing new for 40,30k or AOS.
FW, stop with the specialist games gak, no one cares.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was looking forward to seeing new stuff. But it's nothing. Another flash in the pan specialist game, and nothing new for 40,30k or AOS.
FW, stop with the specialist games gak, no one cares.
With the renegade militia going away, I can only hope Scoria getting a model is a sign that it's to make room for dark ad mec and new infantry kits. Still really sad to see them go.
We went to the FW open day yesterday, was very disappointing. Highlight was picking up Scoria who was finally out.
It was quite telling the sales area was a corner by the entrance to Bugmans from the gaming hall and they didn't clear the gaming tables away to make room for the shopping queue.
No seminars, rumour was Tony was avoiding more questions around the last chance to buy.
Hardly anything I hadn't seen before outside of AT. The AT stuff was really good, will probably get the ATFW tiles as they look amazing, really clever how the scenery just plugs into the tile.
Had a good nose through the big box for AT including the rule book.
Looky Likey wrote: We went to the FW open day yesterday, was very disappointing. Highlight was picking up Scoria who was finally out.
It was quite telling the sales area was a corner by the entrance to Bugmans from the gaming hall and they didn't clear the gaming tables away to make room for the shopping queue.
No seminars, rumour was Tony was avoiding more questions around the last chance to buy.
Hardly anything I hadn't seen before outside of AT. The AT stuff was really good, will probably get the ATFW tiles as they look amazing, really clever how the scenery just plugs into the tile.
Had a good nose through the big box for AT including the rule book.
So other than AT the day was a bust for me.
Completely agreed. AT was nice, but nothing really new. One of the most lackluster open days I've ever been to and I ended up leaving early. I'll add that a small bunch of studio staff looked glum and Tony Cottrell looked thoroughly fed up. Hardly any stock of the Warhammer World exclusives (they had so little stock of the Land Speeder that it sold out in half an hour). Should have stayed home as it all appeared on WHC anyway.
..
