Ashiraya wrote: Keep in mind the Warlord has Machine Destroyer on its main guns.
It's not a very significant advantage since it's only re-rolling 1s, and only on two of its eight shots. The 16% increase in per-gun firepower (ignoring 6s) is only a 4% increase in overall firepower, and only brings the 2:1 ratio in shot count down to 1.92:1. Even if you do the harder math and include 6s the Warlord is still out-gunned by a huge margin.
You all leave out the fact hat the warlord can curb stomp/ kick the war hounds for extra points where the others can't even the warlord in close combat
Theophony wrote: You all leave out the fact hat the warlord can curb stomp/ kick the war hounds for extra points where the others can't even the warlord in close combat
I leave it out because it isn't relevant. Titan vs. titan is all about shooting, you're almost never going to survive long enough to get into melee range or get through the screening units blocking a successful charge.
On a normal table, the Maniple has the advantage. On a large Apoc sized battlefield, if we are assuming Laser Blaster Reaver to maximize shots, the Warlord can start puttin a pair of D shots onto the maniple from 180", while all the turbolasers are limited to 96"
I can safely say the FW model I am most hyped for is Alpharius. He has enormous potential, and if they mess him up (like they did Sevatar, who should have had a calmer, less wide pose, and a better helmet) I will be most sad.
With his Pale Spear, I imagine him to be posed something like Vulkan He'stan.
Spoiler:
Of course, both He'stan and Sigismund had roughly that pose, and perhaps Alpharius deserves something newer.
FW did an excellent job with Armillus Dynat, so they could do a good job with Alpharius if they wanted to make an effort. But then again, Alpharius in the Extermination has only a helmeted head picture so there is no guarantee.
He is the only Primarch to be helmeted in art, and his helmet looks simply great to boot.
Of course, whether that helmet will translate well into a model remains to be seen. Armillus Dynat, while a far better model than Sevatar, suffered just as much from having his head translated from art to model.
Bronzefists42 wrote: Also he was referring to the updated FW book art (where he does have a helmet).
Yes, the master of disguise has one of the flashiest helmets going. Presumably prolonged exposure to plain battle-plate builds up to a point where he just can't take it any more and has to bust out his whole wardrobe, possibly with a Broadway-style number on laud hailer to truly intimidate the foe.
Early morning, lack of coffee, the mind can do strange things.
Bronzefists42 wrote: Also he was referring to the updated FW book art (where he does have a helmet).
Yes, the master of disguise has one of the flashiest helmets going. Presumably prolonged exposure to plain battle-plate builds up to a point where he just can't take it any more and has to bust out his whole wardrobe, possibly with a Broadway-style number on laud hailer to truly intimidate the foe.
Early morning, lack of coffee, the mind can do strange things.
Guess that's why he turned, sick of people misspelling his name to Alpharius when it should be Alphabulus.
You might have noticed that something exceptionally huge deployed onto the Forge World website last week. The Mars pattern Warlord Titan is available to order now and people haven’t been shy about doing so! You can currently arm your Warlord with two Belicosa Volcano Cannon and a pair of Laser Blasters, and hearing a rumour that more weapon options weren’t too far off, I tracked down a new set of carapace-mounted weapons in the Forge World Studio. As the carapace-mounted weapons don't need to be glued into place they can be swapped with the Laser Blasters in seconds!
Carapace-mounted missile launchers will soon be raining down death upon your foes!
The Warlord is so huge that it can be hard to grasp the sheer scale of it. In the Warhammer World Exhibition Centre they have not one but two fully painted Warlord Titans on display, plus there’s another unpainted one in the Forge World Store. They really have to be seen in the flesh to get the full impact, but here’s a look at the display of Imperial Titans so you can get an idea.
Imperial Titans on display in the Warhammer World Exhibition Centre.
To get another great look at the Mars pattern Warlord Titan, check out the latest video from the Forge World Visual Feed.
That’s all from me for now. Make sure you check back soon for more from the Forge World Studio.
While I'm not a particular fan of the curvy style as compared to the blocky armor style, that is a very nice lineup of models. I kind of which they had put them in order of height along with a slew of knights (both their own variants as well as a few plastics) for the full Titan Legion class picture.
Well, they have got a Cerastus Knight, a Warhound, Reaver and Warlord all in order, it just then drops back down to another Warhound, and then it would appear another Reaver.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SirDonlad wrote: These upper carapace weapons are going to make for some truly jaw dropping fortification projects!
That will be great to see I do like a good fort (which is a good thing, living in the Welsh Marches, there are castles everywhere).
Imperial Titans on display in the Warhammer World Exhibition Centre.
That pic is droolworthy. Not just a titan, not just titans, but a fully-painted lineup of resin beauties. I'll probably never own anything bigger than a knight, but they're so damned cool to look at and imagine stomping across the battlefield God Machines of Mankind indeed!
The Titan weighs in at £1240, though that is with worldwide free delivery. There are no weapon options so far, you have to take laser blasters and volcano cannon or wait for later.
Scaling is right, but it is nevertheless a new design, the fourth Warlord chassis design so far.
More stompy images.
The titan has secondary weapons. This is not new, you used to be able to add 'carapace multilasers' for free, and in the rule every titan head had heavy bolter for the princeps to use when needed, though often he was way too busy to make use of it.
Rear loading hatch and balcony soon. As a design feature it fits rule of cool, but the balcony should be drawbridged or otherwise dully retractable. If an assault marine with melta gun jumps there it's all over. The Princeps model comes with the titan by the way. Note the rear facing twin-linked heavy stubber turrets, nice addition, but like the Eldar titans this deserves a more potent range of free add on weaponry.
The addition of th hood makes the head much smaller than for previous warlords, which had a fairly specious command deck and room for four Moderati plus the Princeps. This model goes against that part of the background, its far more cramped, smaller than the Reaver head interior it appears. I musdt admit to being disappointed, I would have loved to see an interior similar to the deck scenes on the Imperius Dictatio, which an older style head would have had room for. What they should have done here was give the titan a face not a head and extend the command deck onto the hull as a bridge. with a face as a mask/helmet in front. This would have kept the style and the size but also allowed room for a proper command deck.
No engineering deck on this titan, I wonder if they bothered to sculpt one. Pity if they did not, at £1240 you have paid for the whole titan, there should be the normal servitors wired in, techpriests and at least one,preferably two internal decks with detail.
All in all I am less impressed than I should be, and it cut corners, but it's still a warlord titan in 40K scale, and if nothing else it hardens the scale now, which should do something to prevent the five foot mega- titan syndrome.
To address a couple of points that Orlanth made:
It is somewhat a new design, but only slightly. It's pretty close to the old Mk I Mars pattern Beetleback Epic model, just updated to functional 28mm scale. The major difference between this and the epic model is the Carapace being a bit more segmented and the addition of Lucius style reactor ridges up top. I'd call it a Mk Ia really, as opposed to the Mk II Metallica pattern, the Lucius Pattern, or the Apocalypse pattern.
Rear guns are not Stubbers, but Twin Linked Lascannons, a rather more effective defense against invading Assault Marines.
Agree that the head is smaller than would be optimal, but Titan size and crew is all over the place in the fluff. Looking at the pictures, the head is not smaller than the Reaver, but slightly larger. It's like the Warhound with the moderatii side by side in the front, while the Reaver has them to each side of the Princeps, making the head wider but shorter and more cramped. The Reaver head may appear wider because of the cables that stick out to the sides, but the Warlord head is about twice as tall and longer. It may not be a Star Trek style bridge, but this head is quite spacious compared to the Reaver that is more like a B52 cockpit.
They could have made the head larger though. It they made the interior section a bit wider, say 3/4 or an inch or so, they could have jammed in another pair of crew.
No engineering section I can live with, as it was a design compromise to allow for a solid core body, instead of filling it with an interior and having to add a bunch more removable parts so you could see the inside.
Aye, they are Ardex-Defensor pattern mauler bolt cannons along with Ardex-Defensor twin-linked lascannons covering the back, NOT twin-linked stubbers like pointlessly speculated above.
Hmm, makes me wonder just how many secondary guns they will have on an Emperor if they ever get round to one. Well, probably more tertiary guns really, seeing as the lesser Titan-class weapons are secondary weapons on an Imperator. I know the old Apocalypse datasheet had fire points for the embarked models.
Also, how high is that gantry above the table-top level? If it is more than 12" high, an Assault Marine wouldn't be able to reach it anyway. Edit: looks like it is just in range, but the Marine would have to be directly below it. Would make for epic stuff in game! I know it is technically against the rules, but I would totally allow that gantry as a Battlement for units to stand on.
Also really like how the Warlord and Warhound look together- a Warlord flanked by a pair of Warhounds would look epic, like a warrior with his faithful wardogs. Would put me back 2 grand though, so that will have to wait awhile.
BrookM wrote: The Warlord has quite an arsenal of options for both the carapace and its arms. The point defence weapons are fixed however.
Yeah, this is a pity, as I would personally want to swap out the lascannons for more maulers IMO. Or at least stick the lascannons pointing forward and the maulers rearward.
But I was talking about a theoretical Emperor class, which would probably be festooned in weaponry.
Realistically there are probably only a few rooms inside... but it would be cool to play out a scenario where a player could try to destroy the Warlord from the inside, if they can land some assault marines on the back. They can run around a side board a "zone mortalis" like series of rooms and levels to fight to different subsections that can effect the Warlords use in a larger game. Survive being stomped, survive those rear lascannons overwatching... ok now you're on the balcony and you have a slim chance of busting in the door... oh now you're inside... small cadre of skitariii are stationed on it... but if you're successful maybe it stops shooting a weapon or walking and stomping, or its void shields reduced.
aka_mythos wrote: Realistically there are probably only a few rooms inside... but it would be cool to play out a scenario where a player could try to destroy the Warlord from the inside, if they can land some assault marines on the back. They can run around a side board a "zone mortalis" like series of rooms and levels to fight to different subsections that can effect the Warlords use in a larger game. Survive being stomped, survive those rear lascannons overwatching... ok now you're on the balcony and you have a slim chance of busting in the door... oh now you're inside... small cadre of skitariii are stationed on it... but if you're successful maybe it stops shooting a weapon or walking and stomping, or its void shields reduced.
...or they even manage to get a melta-bomb into the plasma reactor.... Sounds fun though. Could add the head as the ultimate target- boarding and taking control of the Titan as a spoil of war, with a slim chance of the thing going berserk and fighting by itself if the the Princeps is killed.
Haighus wrote: Hmm, makes me wonder just how many secondary guns they will have on an Emperor if they ever get round to one. Well, probably more tertiary guns really, seeing as the lesser Titan-class weapons are secondary weapons on an Imperator. I know the old Apocalypse datasheet had fire points for the embarked models.
Also, how high is that gantry above the table-top level? If it is more than 12" high, an Assault Marine wouldn't be able to reach it anyway. Edit: looks like it is just in range, but the Marine would have to be directly below it. Would make for epic stuff in game! I know it is technically against the rules, but I would totally allow that gantry as a Battlement for units to stand on.
Also really like how the Warlord and Warhound look together- a Warlord flanked by a pair of Warhounds would look epic, like a warrior with his faithful wardogs. Would put me back 2 grand though, so that will have to wait awhile.
I would love to see that on the tabletop but the fluffnut in me would be screaming inside. Imperial Titans are prohibited from operating in units of more than a single Titan (or a pair for the Warhounds) due to the atrocities of squad-size Warhound packs and Reaver packs during the Heresy). Seeing a Warlord flanked by a Reaver pair and a pack of Warhounds in Imperial colours would simulataneously have me saying "awesome" and "fuuuuuuu."
Something of note I missed, the carapace weapons are not lighter titan weapons like in the current datafax. Lasblasters are heavy titan weapons. This is good as it brings the titan back to it's stats in Epic. So maybe we can have plasma destructors and quake cannon on the carapace like the beetleback often had.
It also means you don't miss out on so much if you take a titan ccw, which while generally a poor use of a hardpoint is great for style and fun.
Nice catch on the specifics on the point defense weapons, wish to you could add a heavy bolter to a Reaver for flavour like in old epic.
BrookM wrote:Aye, they are Ardex-Defensor pattern mauler bolt cannons along with Ardex-Defensor twin-linked lascannons covering the back, NOT twin-linked stubbers like pointlessly speculated above.
What exactly does Ardex-Defensor give the weapons, compared to normal?
Deadshot wrote:I would love to see that on the tabletop but the fluffnut in me would be screaming inside. Imperial Titans are prohibited from operating in units of more than a single Titan (or a pair for the Warhounds) due to the atrocities of squad-size Warhound packs and Reaver packs during the Heresy). Seeing a Warlord flanked by a Reaver pair and a pack of Warhounds in Imperial colours would simulataneously have me saying "awesome" and "fuuuuuuu."
Didn't that only apply to Warhounds? Reavers still operate in maniples when supporting Warlords and Imperators.
BrookM wrote:Aye, they are Ardex-Defensor pattern mauler bolt cannons along with Ardex-Defensor twin-linked lascannons covering the back, NOT twin-linked stubbers like pointlessly speculated above.
What exactly does Ardex-Defensor give the weapons, compared to normal?
They are point-defence weapons that may always overwatch at BS 2, not that there's a lot that can hurt a Warlord in assaults.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Warlord has the following arm options:
Belicosa pattern volcano cannons (standard issue)
Sunfury plasma annihilator
Mori quake cannon
Saturnyne lascutter
Arioch titan power claw
Macro-gatling blaster
And the following carapace options:
Two Apocalypse missile launchers (standard issue)
Two double-barrelled turbo laser destructors
Two twin-linked vulcan mega-bolters
Two titan plasma blastguns
Two Reaver laser blasters
Two Reaver melta cannons
Two Reaver gatling blasters
Two vortex missile banks
Two incinerator missile banks
"Standard issue" being what the model starts out with in the army list entry.
BrookM wrote:Aye, they are Ardex-Defensor pattern mauler bolt cannons along with Ardex-Defensor twin-linked lascannons covering the back, NOT twin-linked stubbers like pointlessly speculated above.
What exactly does Ardex-Defensor give the weapons, compared to normal?
They are point-defence weapons that may always overwatch at BS 2, not that there's a lot that can hurt a Warlord in assaults.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Warlord has the following arm options:
Belicosa pattern volcano cannons (standard issue)
Sunfury plasma annihilator
Mori quake cannon
Saturnyne lascutter
Arioch titan power claw
Macro-gatling blaster
And the following carapace options:
Two Apocalypse missile launchers (standard issue)
Two double-barrelled turbo laser destructors
Two twin-linked vulcan mega-bolters
Two titan plasma blastguns
Two Reaver laser blasters
Two Reaver melta cannons
Two Reaver gatling blasters
Two vortex missile banks
Two incinerator missile banks
"Standard issue" being what the model starts out with in the army list entry.
I love how all of the Warlord primary weapons got names.
BrookM wrote:Aye, they are Ardex-Defensor pattern mauler bolt cannons along with Ardex-Defensor twin-linked lascannons covering the back, NOT twin-linked stubbers like pointlessly speculated above.
What exactly does Ardex-Defensor give the weapons, compared to normal?
They are point-defence weapons that may always overwatch at BS 2, not that there's a lot that can hurt a Warlord in assaults.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Warlord has the following arm options:
Belicosa pattern volcano cannons (standard issue)
Sunfury plasma annihilator
Mori quake cannon
Saturnyne lascutter
Arioch titan power claw
Macro-gatling blaster
And the following carapace options:
Two Apocalypse missile launchers (standard issue)
Two double-barrelled turbo laser destructors
Two twin-linked vulcan mega-bolters
Two titan plasma blastguns
Two Reaver laser blasters
Two Reaver melta cannons
Two Reaver gatling blasters
Two vortex missile banks
Two incinerator missile banks
"Standard issue" being what the model starts out with in the army list entry.
Are you sure its Plasma Annihilator and not Destroyer? IIRC, Titan Plasma Weapons went up from Blastguns (Warhound arms, Battle Titan carapace) with Rg 96 Str 8 AP2 2 shot/Rg 120 Str 10 AP 2 1 shot. Then you had Destroyer which were Warlord arms and Emperor carapace which had 4/2 shots in its modes, then Annhilator with 6/3 shots respectively. If the Annihilator is moved to Warlord arm, is the Destroyer gone?
Enigwolf wrote:
BrookM wrote:Aye, they are Ardex-Defensor pattern mauler bolt cannons along with Ardex-Defensor twin-linked lascannons covering the back, NOT twin-linked stubbers like pointlessly speculated above.
What exactly does Ardex-Defensor give the weapons, compared to normal?
Deadshot wrote:I would love to see that on the tabletop but the fluffnut in me would be screaming inside. Imperial Titans are prohibited from operating in units of more than a single Titan (or a pair for the Warhounds) due to the atrocities of squad-size Warhound packs and Reaver packs during the Heresy). Seeing a Warlord flanked by a Reaver pair and a pack of Warhounds in Imperial colours would simulataneously have me saying "awesome" and "fuuuuuuu."
Didn't that only apply to Warhounds? Reavers still operate in maniples when supporting Warlords and Imperators.
i think it applies to all Titans. I mean, the rule is in place because rogue Titans were wiping out whole districts and being in such large groups were too difficult to destroy. Should a 10 strong group turn rogue the Imperial forces couldn't fight back, but with 1 or 2 they could at least have a go with Lascannons. Warhounds are pretty fragile but Reavers and Warlords are going to be too tough for anything except D weapons to crack, at least in fluff.
That said, I think it only applies to general deployments. Full Titan on Titan warfare l, you don't really have a choice except to deploy your Legio en masse.
Imperial Titans on display in the Warhammer World Exhibition Centre.
That pic is droolworthy. Not just a titan, not just titans, but a fully-painted lineup of resin beauties. I'll probably never own anything bigger than a knight, but they're so damned cool to look at and imagine stomping across the battlefield God Machines of Mankind indeed!
My God those truly are stonking models, lovely display
Deadshot wrote:I would love to see that on the tabletop but the fluffnut in me would be screaming inside. Imperial Titans are prohibited from operating in units of more than a single Titan (or a pair for the Warhounds) due to the atrocities of squad-size Warhound packs and Reaver packs during the Heresy). Seeing a Warlord flanked by a Reaver pair and a pack of Warhounds in Imperial colours would simulataneously have me saying "awesome" and "fuuuuuuu."
Didn't that only apply to Warhounds? Reavers still operate in maniples when supporting Warlords and Imperators.
i think it applies to all Titans. I mean, the rule is in place because rogue Titans were wiping out whole districts and being in such large groups were too difficult to destroy. Should a 10 strong group turn rogue the Imperial forces couldn't fight back, but with 1 or 2 they could at least have a go with Lascannons. Warhounds are pretty fragile but Reavers and Warlords are going to be too tough for anything except D weapons to crack, at least in fluff. That said, I think it only applies to general deployments. Full Titan on Titan warfare l, you don't really have a choice except to deploy your Legio en masse.
Where is this fluff from? Just literature I have read involving Titans often has more than 2 fighting together. Not necessarily right next to each other, as the nature of their long range firepower and size makes their 'squad' tactics happen on a much larger scale, but examples such as the Battle of Helsreach and the Priests/Lords/Gods of Mars trilogy has larger groups of Titans deployed as one force. I thought the whole purpose of Warhounds was to support their larger brethren, hence them being referred to as 'scout' titans rather than 'battle' titans. FW also has (post HH) rules for deploying Reaver maniples, with 2 Reavers supported by 3 Warhounds for example.
I have no idea who can actually justify buying this.
Rich people.
"Rich" is a relative and loaded term. Most people have credit card debt well in excess of $2000, and I would imagine quite a few of those people actually have little to show for that debt. As cool as the Warlord is, there are so many other things that I want and would get much more mileage out of for the money spent.
Deadshot wrote: Are you sure its Plasma Annihilator and not Destroyer? IIRC, Titan Plasma Weapons went up from Blastguns (Warhound arms, Battle Titan carapace) with Rg 96 Str 8 AP2 2 shot/Rg 120 Str 10 AP 2 1 shot. Then you had Destroyer which were Warlord arms and Emperor carapace which had 4/2 shots in its modes, then Annhilator with 6/3 shots respectively. If the Annihilator is moved to Warlord arm, is the Destroyer gone?
That's what it says in the book.
The Sunfury plasma annihilator is 72" S9 AP2 Primary Weapon 4, Apocalyptic Barrage, Plasma Wave (successful cover saves must be re-rolled)
The plasma blastguns (with the variable settings) can be mounted on the carapace.
"Rich" is a relative and loaded term. Most people have credit card debt well in excess of $2000, and I would imagine quite a few of those people actually have little to show for that debt. As cool as the Warlord is, there are so many other things that I want and would get much more mileage out of for the money spent.
They do?! I mean I knew I didn't really live in the real world but I don't and never have. I mean sure I have the usual student debt and a mortgage if you include that but my current (and usual) CC debt is 0.00
I can see why people would want this but it is rather expensive for a single "model", albeit a centre piece one of a kind.
It's an amazing model but will mostly be reserved for collection purposes, or possibly a "everything against the Warlord" match on the rare occasion. Moving this model seems to be on the side of fairly dangerous- I'm guessing it gets its own seatbelt on the way to the store!
Accolade wrote: It's an amazing model but will mostly be reserved for collection purposes, or possibly a "everything against the Warlord" match on the rare occasion. Moving this model seems to be on the side of fairly dangerous- I'm guessing it gets its own seatbelt on the way to the store!
Exalted as now I'm imagining people watching some poor neckbeard trying to manuever this thing into a baby seat then driving off with "Warlord Titan on Board" in his back window.
Pete Melvin wrote: They do?! I mean I knew I didn't really live in the real world but I don't and never have. I mean sure I have the usual student debt and a mortgage if you include that but my current (and usual) CC debt is 0.00
I can see why people would want this but it is rather expensive for a single "model", albeit a centre piece one of a kind.
I'm one of the people who basically took out a loan to get this thing. I know it might see the table once a year at most, but for me, this thing will provide months of hobby time building it and coming up with fluff and likely years fully painting the thing.
I suspect there are a fair few buyers with 'decent' levels of income who have most of what they want/need
and will pick up something like a warlord (or a new racing bike, or Canoe, or fishing rod etc) if they get extra spending money from a bonus or the first few months of a raise
Pete Melvin wrote: They do?! I mean I knew I didn't really live in the real world but I don't and never have. I mean sure I have the usual student debt and a mortgage if you include that but my current (and usual) CC debt is 0.00
I can see why people would want this but it is rather expensive for a single "model", albeit a centre piece one of a kind.
I'm one of the people who basically took out a loan to get this thing. I know it might see the table once a year at most, but for me, this thing will provide months of hobby time building it and coming up with fluff and likely years fully painting the thing.
Well, I hope you've bought a baby seat for your car
I won't judge, its your money, spend it how you want. I just bought a £400 watch, a £10 one from down the market does the job just as well, no way I can cast stones.
I have spoken to a couple of people that will be buying one and I already know a chap that has one on order, its like the perfect centerpiece to a 30k collection, hell even your entire collection.
Its a little too much for me and I would not touch credit ever, but I understand why people that have that sort of disposable income would be all over it.
It would also take a hell of a lot of time to assemble and paint it and thats a lot of enjoyment in it if you like that sort of thing too.
Deadshot wrote:I would love to see that on the tabletop but the fluffnut in me would be screaming inside. Imperial Titans are prohibited from operating in units of more than a single Titan (or a pair for the Warhounds) due to the atrocities of squad-size Warhound packs and Reaver packs during the Heresy). Seeing a Warlord flanked by a Reaver pair and a pack of Warhounds in Imperial colours would simulataneously have me saying "awesome" and "fuuuuuuu."
Didn't that only apply to Warhounds? Reavers still operate in maniples when supporting Warlords and Imperators.
i think it applies to all Titans. I mean, the rule is in place because rogue Titans were wiping out whole districts and being in such large groups were too difficult to destroy. Should a 10 strong group turn rogue the Imperial forces couldn't fight back, but with 1 or 2 they could at least have a go with Lascannons. Warhounds are pretty fragile but Reavers and Warlords are going to be too tough for anything except D weapons to crack, at least in fluff.
That said, I think it only applies to general deployments. Full Titan on Titan warfare l, you don't really have a choice except to deploy your Legio en masse.
Where is this fluff from? Just literature I have read involving Titans often has more than 2 fighting together. Not necessarily right next to each other, as the nature of their long range firepower and size makes their 'squad' tactics happen on a much larger scale, but examples such as the Battle of Helsreach and the Priests/Lords/Gods of Mars trilogy has larger groups of Titans deployed as one force. I thought the whole purpose of Warhounds was to support their larger brethren, hence them being referred to as 'scout' titans rather than 'battle' titans. FW also has (post HH) rules for deploying Reaver maniples, with 2 Reavers supported by 3 Warhounds for example.
Here is where I first read it and seen it mentioned other times by other people before. It makes sense as well. I mean, if a unit of 10 Titans went rogue on mission, you'd be hard pressed to keep them down. Whereas 2 Warhounds could be feasibly toppled by a tank or Basilisk regiment or a few Devastator Squads. The 6th Ed rulebook (big version) has a story at the back end where one of Ultramarine's Dev Squads systematically ravaged a whole Legion coming through a choke point, evem landing a Reaver kill.
I could be fooling myself but I just take it that unless the need was that great, general deployment of Titans would not have 6 or 7 Reavers or Warlords operating as a squad. If they were regularly a single unit then the chances of them cahooting into mutiny is higher, whereas of its a single Princeps or pair of Warhounds it'd be easier to deal with.
I do understand what you are saying. Titanicus remains one of my favourite 40k and sci fi novels. But I could argue that its artistic license and the idea of authors having to stick to a single Titan would make it boring. Novels like that require a full legion of towering war engines. Plus, those novels are very much Apocalypse level, all put warfare, no time for semantics scenarios.
Anyway, maybe we should open a background thread rather than detract from this? Its just my own personal fluffnut based on that page, so its not exactly important.
I have no idea who can actually justify buying this.
Rich people.
"Rich" is a relative and loaded term. Most people have credit card debt well in excess of $2000, and I would imagine quite a few of those people actually have little to show for that debt. As cool as the Warlord is, there are so many other things that I want and would get much more mileage out of for the money spent.
To me, rich implies a comma in the back account. I've personally never had more than £450 after Xmas amd birthday, but then again I'm 18 and earn around 160 a month at most. But if I had, say 3000, I'd still not consider myself rich enough. I try to never drop more than 1/8 of my monthly earnings on any one thing (meaning if I wanted something for £50, I'd wait 5 months). So at say 1300 for the model, and extra weapons should I choose, I'd say having at least £11k in the bank DISPOSABLE would be enough. Be that over a year or over a month, but having 11k disposable at Christmas or something to spend on yourself or as a gift, I'd say you're pretty well off.
BrookM wrote:
Deadshot wrote: Are you sure its Plasma Annihilator and not Destroyer? IIRC, Titan Plasma Weapons went up from Blastguns (Warhound arms, Battle Titan carapace) with Rg 96 Str 8 AP2 2 shot/Rg 120 Str 10 AP 2 1 shot. Then you had Destroyer which were Warlord arms and Emperor carapace which had 4/2 shots in its modes, then Annhilator with 6/3 shots respectively. If the Annihilator is moved to Warlord arm, is the Destroyer gone?
That's what it says in the book.
The Sunfury plasma annihilator is 72" S9 AP2 Primary Weapon 4, Apocalyptic Barrage, Plasma Wave (successful cover saves must be re-rolled)
The plasma blastguns (with the variable settings) can be mounted on the carapace.
Hmmm. Maybe they are rejigging the titan scaling up system then.
Deadshot wrote:I would love to see that on the tabletop but the fluffnut in me would be screaming inside. Imperial Titans are prohibited from operating in units of more than a single Titan (or a pair for the Warhounds) due to the atrocities of squad-size Warhound packs and Reaver packs during the Heresy). Seeing a Warlord flanked by a Reaver pair and a pack of Warhounds in Imperial colours would simulataneously have me saying "awesome" and "fuuuuuuu."
Didn't that only apply to Warhounds? Reavers still operate in maniples when supporting Warlords and Imperators.
i think it applies to all Titans. I mean, the rule is in place because rogue Titans were wiping out whole districts and being in such large groups were too difficult to destroy. Should a 10 strong group turn rogue the Imperial forces couldn't fight back, but with 1 or 2 they could at least have a go with Lascannons. Warhounds are pretty fragile but Reavers and Warlords are going to be too tough for anything except D weapons to crack, at least in fluff.
That said, I think it only applies to general deployments. Full Titan on Titan warfare l, you don't really have a choice except to deploy your Legio en masse.
Where is this fluff from? Just literature I have read involving Titans often has more than 2 fighting together. Not necessarily right next to each other, as the nature of their long range firepower and size makes their 'squad' tactics happen on a much larger scale, but examples such as the Battle of Helsreach and the Priests/Lords/Gods of Mars trilogy has larger groups of Titans deployed as one force. I thought the whole purpose of Warhounds was to support their larger brethren, hence them being referred to as 'scout' titans rather than 'battle' titans. FW also has (post HH) rules for deploying Reaver maniples, with 2 Reavers supported by 3 Warhounds for example.
I've read this a couple of times on more than one occasion. I believe that this applies only to (but it's not explicitly stated) "conventional-scale" warfare, where they're the only Titan-sized warmachine operating in the theater. I'm of the impression that when you're looking at larger-scale engine engagements (Chaos in Titanicus, Gargants in Armageddon, moar Chaos in Cadia or Hydra Cordatus/Storm of Iron, defending against 'nids attacking a Forge World) then you're going to see demi-legions deployed in strength together, as someone else had mentioned before. Just my two cents and speculation, however.
Considering Titan Legions travel together rather than in units of one or two Titans, that rule makes absolutely zero sense.
When Legio turn traitor or get corrupted by Chaos it's usually across the entire unit, with internal schisms a brief Titan on Titan battle occurs with the survivors getting to keep the Legio name and colours.
Don't worry, you're young and while two thousand pounds may seem like a lot of money, in the grand scheme of things it isn't much. I know people who've spent more on a dinner.
Hmm, yeah, and in the case of an enemy that didn't require the combined might of the Legion, spreading the Titans out to bolster the battle line would make more sense anyway. With how connected Titans are to each other through the noosphere, I can't see it making much difference if they are within 100m of each other or on different continents, would have to be on a different planet to have an appreciable difference.
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Asmodai Asmodean wrote: Don't worry, you're young and while two thousand pounds may seem like a lot of money, in the grand scheme of things it isn't much. I know people who've spent more on a dinner.
It will be about a 20th of my future yearly salary (yay for vocational courses), so it is still a scary price, but I suspect what you say is true for the future, at least assuming I pass every stage of exams. Will have £36,000 of debt to pay off though, plus maintenance...
When Legio turn traitor or get corrupted by Chaos it's usually across the entire unit...
I think there is a huge possibility that just like with Traitor Legions, there were Loyal elements within Legios who were "purged" by the Legios when they turned Traitor. Remember, we didn't know anything about Loyalist elements from the Traitor Legions until Black Library started writing its HH books.
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Considering Titan Legions travel together rather than in units of one or two Titans, that rule makes absolutely zero sense.
When Legio turn traitor or get corrupted by Chaos it's usually across the entire unit, with internal schisms a brief Titan on Titan battle occurs with the survivors getting to keep the Legio name and colours.
Don't worry, you're young and while two thousand pounds may seem like a lot of money, in the grand scheme of things it isn't much. I know people who've spent more on a dinner.
Well like I said earlier, let's open up a fluff thread but here's my last post about it on this thread.
Just because they travel together doesn't mean they deploy together. A space marine battle company might all travel together but end up deployed to different continents. The rule would be in place to stop a group of say 3 Warlords being isolated from the rest of the Legio and planning a coup. 3 Warlords suddenly turning on you would be devastating. Its the same as the Chapters division. Its much easier to turn a small group, but the effects are much lesser. 1 squad loyal to their sergeant would be easy for a sergeant to turn, but ultimately inconsequential. If one Princeps took his Warhound and crew for a joyride, easy to stop. If a whole company or chapter went rogue, a lot more difficult. 6 or more Titans and you havd serious problems. But a company has 1 captain, 9 sergeants, 99 Marines, Librarians, veterans and command staff for the sergeant to convince, many of whom don't feel personal loyalty to him, same as with the various other Princeps and Moderati of other Titans. Simple divide and conquer as a precaution.
Also, I talked to my friends earlier after reading this post. I asked that if I ever spend 2 grand on a meal, just to put me out of my misery because I've gone too far to be helped. I mean, there's only so much KFC you can eat, and I can cook a perfect fillet steak at home for £7:50 so yeah, 2 grand is a lot no matter what you have. For reference, I'm going to expecting a maximum account balance of 2 grand after a 1500 loan comes in to last me 4 months of university.
Don't worry, you're young and while two thousand pounds may seem like a lot of money, in the grand scheme of things it isn't much. I know people who've spent more on a dinner.
Also, I talked to my friends earlier after reading this post. I asked that if I ever spend 2 grand on a meal, just to put me out of my misery because I've gone too far to be helped. I mean, there's only so much KFC you can eat, and I can cook a perfect fillet steak at home for £7:50 so yeah, 2 grand is a lot no matter what you have. For reference, I'm going to expecting a maximum account balance of 2 grand after a 1500 loan comes in to last me 4 months of university.
I've spent $6,275 on a work dinner. What really made the meal expensive was the alcohol. We bought 3 bottles of wine that cost nearly $900 a piece which was just about half the bill. There were 13 people and we finished a project way ahead of schedule and the Company was able to bill our work out at about $800,000. We all got a nice bonus on top of the meal. I think partner's exact words were, "Work hard, play harder". My team was working 7 days per week for almost 4 months and I was the project lead. We were working some 80+ hour weeks at times. Since we had to travel across the country for the job as well, it made it even more difficult and the Company rented several apartments for the team next door to each other. We had a men's apartment and women's apartment. I think several of the team members are married as a result of the project (possibly some divorced now as well ). Oh the jobs you take right out of college before you know what you're really worth
Sorry that I went off topic...
I agree that was the reason the legions were broken up - they were harder to corrupt and even the god like primarchs were not above being corrupted and turning on their father, the Emperor. Its why the Imperial Navy is separate from the Space Marines - because no individual should hold that much power again. Also, its well known that the majority of the leadership in the Space Marine chapters distrust both the Ecclesiarchy and the High Lords of Terra. They don't revere the Emperor as a god (exception would be the Templars). They don't like the High Lords because their decisions many times put them at odds with what they were created to do. Space Marines are conquerors for mankind - they are not nation builders (exception would be the Ultramarines and their empire of 500+ worlds). Even in the 41st millennia, that's what they continue to do and what is expected of them. They are blunt instruments that are used to take something from their enemy. The Astra Millitarum is used to hold worlds and prevent the enemy from taking it back. The Space Marines are there to assist if the threat is great enough (Armageddon, Badab, etc.) The same would go for the Titan Legions as well. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
"Rich" is a relative and loaded term. Most people have credit card debt well in excess of $2000, and I would imagine quite a few of those people actually have little to show for that debt. As cool as the Warlord is, there are so many other things that I want and would get much more mileage out of for the money spent.
They do?! I mean I knew I didn't really live in the real world but I don't and never have. I mean sure I have the usual student debt and a mortgage if you include that but my current (and usual) CC debt is 0.00
I can see why people would want this but it is rather expensive for a single "model", albeit a centre piece one of a kind.
My guess is that the comment is more in reference to Americans. We are not the most financially competent group of people. We spend now and save later. Look at what America is now - we want "free" healthcare, "free" college, "free" everything. Nobody wants to pay for it through taxes - they want to push it up and have someone else pay for it. Without going into a diatribe about the US tax system and perceived inequalities in the tax code, I'm going to leave it as if we the people want it, we should ALL pay for it.
I'm the same way - I have no credit card debt. I have a mortgage and no student loans (paying those off was a great feeling)
I'm in the same boat, no debt besides my regular bills, and no credit cards. With a single income, when I adhere to my budget *it's rather loose, hobby costs factored in as well* I stash about 1.5k a month. Its not much but it gets me a the missus by.
She said that she "saw that gleam in my eye" when I showed her to warlord and gave me a the greenlight to indulge, but even then I'll still wait a year or two I need to "finish" my IG and AM first. With that being said, I don't think it would ever see a table unless someone requested it. I'm more interested in just building, painting, and then displaying like the glorious hunk of resin it is heh.
Deadshot wrote:I would love to see that on the tabletop but the fluffnut in me would be screaming inside. Imperial Titans are prohibited from operating in units of more than a single Titan (or a pair for the Warhounds) due to the atrocities of squad-size Warhound packs and Reaver packs during the Heresy). Seeing a Warlord flanked by a Reaver pair and a pack of Warhounds in Imperial colours would simulataneously have me saying "awesome" and "fuuuuuuu."
I dont think this is true, Titans are deployed singly due to rarity and combat losses. the numbers of Titans available to the Imperium was much less than in thr past. Take the concept of the Warhound, they were supposed to be deployed in pairs, though you could always take them singly it wasn't usual. More to the point they are scout Titans intended to act as recon for a battlegroup of larger Titans. By 40k the Warhounds role had changed from scout to ambush predator, as even a Warhound became increasingly precious for its firepower and void shields, and would change role from the 'lighter' armed unit to a rare heavy armed unit as the Imperium relied more and more on mundane weaponry.
During the Horus Heresy the Warlord was the most common titan, ten millenium later the Reaver is the most common, probably due to heavier losses of the Warlord which was a heavy assault Titan, wheras the Reaver normally had a stand off role. Both types formed into Battlegroups of up to three, this organisation is evident even in the more recent publications which included them. Only Emperor class titans were ever deployed as single units, and even they were sometimes deployed with multiple units together.
IIRC the restrictions on the Adeptus Titanicus prevent deployment in larger than maniple strength, and that is to avoid catastrophic loss. Largest campaign organisation is a demi-Legio (half thee titans of a Titan legion) and a quarter-Legio is more common. This however might be also due to the need for a garrison or general reserve force at the forgeworld.
The Warlord has the following arm options:
Belicosa pattern volcano cannons (standard issue)
Sunfury plasma annihilator
Mori quake cannon
Saturnyne lascutter
Arioch titan power claw
Macro-gatling blaster
And the following carapace options:
Two Apocalypse missile launchers (standard issue)
Two double-barrelled turbo laser destructors
Two twin-linked vulcan mega-bolters
Two titan plasma blastguns
Two Reaver laser blasters
Two Reaver melta cannons
Two Reaver gatling blasters
Two vortex missile banks
Two incinerator missile banks
"Standard issue" being what the model starts out with in the army list entry.
That is change from before.
Carapce weapons need not be paired in the past.
The arm weaponry is the same as before excepting a wider array of close combat weaponry, including the wrecker ball, which only Warlord titan could mount.
Nice to see they get the upgraded gatling blaster.
The only real change in organization of Titans due to the heresy was in Warhounds- They used to be deployed in wolfpacks that could take on even an Emperor in some cases, but after the terror of wolfpacks rampaging on Terra, they now are generally only deployed as singles or pairs. Battle Titans are still generally organized in groups of 1-3 battle titans making up a battlegroup. Emperors were more common (and now appear to include the Nemesis, an upgunned Warlord chassis) during the Heresy, and used to kill smaller titans and larger cities, but now are much rarer, making them generally relegated to the command and control role
Well, the rules state that you can use it in your regular games of 40k.
Plus there is a 30k force org chart that allows you to take 1-3 lords of war as your primary detachment. So you could legally field the Warlord and nothing else, call it a day.
I find it interesting that there is no free experimental rules PDF for using the Warlord in 40k yet- the email about Titans I just got from FW today links to book 5 for rules, so at the moment they are expecting house-ruling essentially for 40k. It will probably be in the next Imperial Armour.
Should we be expecting the next Primarch reveal at the open day? I seem to remember talk of another Primarch being almost done at the weekender, so hopefully we see one or more of the book 3 primarchs.
Accolade wrote: It's an amazing model but will mostly be reserved for collection purposes, or possibly a "everything against the Warlord" match on the rare occasion. Moving this model seems to be on the side of fairly dangerous- I'm guessing it gets its own seatbelt on the way to the store!
Exalted as now I'm imagining people watching some poor neckbeard trying to manuever this thing into a baby seat then driving off with "Warlord Titan on Board" in his back window.
Haighus wrote:I find it interesting that there is no free experimental rules PDF for using the Warlord in 40k yet- the email about Titans I just got from FW today links to book 5 for rules, so at the moment they are expecting house-ruling essentially for 40k. It will probably be in the next Imperial Armour.
BrookM wrote:Well, the rules state that you can use it in your regular games of 40k.
Plus there is a 30k force org chart that allows you to take 1-3 lords of war as your primary detachment. So you could legally field the Warlord and nothing else, call it a day.
Accolade wrote: It's an amazing model but will mostly be reserved for collection purposes, or possibly a "everything against the Warlord" match on the rare occasion. Moving this model seems to be on the side of fairly dangerous- I'm guessing it gets its own seatbelt on the way to the store!
Exalted as now I'm imagining people watching some poor neckbeard trying to manuever this thing into a baby seat then driving off with "Warlord Titan on Board" in his back window.
Aaand exalted...
Can we get a size comparison between a Warlord Titan and a baby if anyone has both?
Rygnan wrote: Should we be expecting the next Primarch reveal at the open day? I seem to remember talk of another Primarch being almost done at the weekender, so hopefully we see one or more of the book 3 primarchs.
Possibly, at least a WIP of one. I hope it's Perturabo or Corax.
Accolade wrote: It's an amazing model but will mostly be reserved for collection purposes, or possibly a "everything against the Warlord" match on the rare occasion. Moving this model seems to be on the side of fairly dangerous- I'm guessing it gets its own seatbelt on the way to the store!
IIRC Foda Bett designed a titan with bendy legs for just that reason. There mgiht be a pic somewhere in the gallery.
Rygnan wrote: Should we be expecting the next Primarch reveal at the open day? I seem to remember talk of another Primarch being almost done at the weekender, so hopefully we see one or more of the book 3 primarchs.
Possibly, at least a WIP of one. I hope it's Perturabo or Corax.
I'm thinking if they do show one off it'll be Rogal Dorn, what with all the other IF stuff they've been doing lately
Rygnan wrote: Should we be expecting the next Primarch reveal at the open day? I seem to remember talk of another Primarch being almost done at the weekender, so hopefully we see one or more of the book 3 primarchs.
Possibly, at least a WIP of one. I hope it's Perturabo or Corax.
I'm thinking if they do show one off it'll be Rogal Dorn, what with all the other IF stuff they've been doing lately
I know at the last event Simon Egan mentioned something about the one he's working on has some hurdles to overcome, I think people took it to be Corax because of the pinions, I think they were having trouble with them before; and I can't see Dorn having many hurdles to overcome, he seems quite straightforward. Plus the Raven Guard and the Iron Warriors have got hardly anything, would be nice to throw them a bone.
ImAGeek wrote: I know at the last event Simon Egan mentioned something about the one he's working on has some hurdles to overcome, I think people took it to be Corax because of the pinions, I think they were having trouble with them before; and I can't see Dorn having many hurdles to overcome, he seems quite straightforward. Plus the Raven Guard and the Iron Warriors have got hardly anything, would be nice to throw them a bone.
Did they not mention Dorn's huge chainsword to be an issue as well?
I would love to see Perturabo. He is one of my favorite primarchs. I would be tempted to order him, but first I would have to get Night Haunter or my legion may disown me.
Edit:Can anyone with one of the primarchs tell me how easy it would be to put a helmet on one? I can't paint faces to save my life.
You'd have to get the right sized helmet... They're a fair bit bigger than marines. Not hugely, but enough that a marine helmet would look really silly probably.
Lord Blackscale wrote: I would love to see Perturabo. He is one of my favorite primarchs. I would be tempted to order him, but first I would have to get Night Haunter or my legion may disown me.
Edit:Can anyone with one of the primarchs tell me how easy it would be to put a helmet on one? I can't paint faces to save my life.
So far all heads of the Primarchs are separate ... so if you have a fitting helmet it should be no problem to use it.
ImAGeek wrote: You'd have to get the right sized helmet... They're a fair bit bigger than marines. Not hugely, but enough that a marine helmet would look really silly probably.
That's the one thing that always bugged me about the Lion Helm with Azrael for Dark Angels. If that's Lion El'Johnson's helmet then I'm a chinaman.
Well, maybe some great artificer who had never met him made it as a gift to standard Marine sizes and the Lion got it and was like "Well, uh, that's... lovely. Thank you, Magos, very... interesting. Do you have the receipt?".
Well all the primarchs had their own uniqueness. Angron was short, Russ had pointy teeth, Kurze was pastey white, Vulkan had a bad case of red eye, perhaps Lion'el had a tiny head.
Yeah, finding a helmet that would fit is probably impossible. I would even pay extra for one though. The only primarch I have seen so far with a head i liked was Konrad, but that's because he looks like the murderous sociopath he is.
ImAGeek wrote: You'd have to get the right sized helmet... They're a fair bit bigger than marines. Not hugely, but enough that a marine helmet would look really silly probably.
That's the one thing that always bugged me about the Lion Helm with Azrael for Dark Angels. If that's Lion El'Johnson's helmet then I'm a chinaman.
When Azrael first came out, Lion El'Johnson wasn't necessarily anything more than a legendary Space Marine Commander...
Lord Blackscale wrote: Yeah, finding a helmet that would fit is probably impossible. I would even pay extra for one though. The only primarch I have seen so far with a head i liked was Konrad, but that's because he looks like the murderous sociopath he is.
I like Horus' head. I would pay extra for certain Primarchs helmets, Vulkans would be cool and I'd love to see the Khans in model form. I wager Alpharius will probably come with a helmet.
ImAGeek wrote: You'd have to get the right sized helmet... They're a fair bit bigger than marines. Not hugely, but enough that a marine helmet would look really silly probably.
That's the one thing that always bugged me about the Lion Helm with Azrael for Dark Angels. If that's Lion El'Johnson's helmet then I'm a chinaman.
When Azrael first came out, Lion El'Johnson wasn't necessarily anything more than a legendary Space Marine Commander...
Think I wasn't even aware of 40k's existence when he came out then lol. I was about 6 or 7 lol.
Lord Blackscale wrote: Well, to be far to Horus I never liked Abbadon's head either. If I ever buy him he will get a helmet. I just don't like marines without helmets.
BTW ImAGeek, who is your new avatar? I am digging it.
Enigwolf wrote: Look at us discussing Titan FOC/ORBAT like they're any normal 40k unit now. Oh, how far we've come since the earliest days of GW...
The bulk of the Titan fluff comes from 1989 and the release of Codex Titanicus for 1st edition Epic. Andy Chambers wrote consistent fluff and was comprehensive in his explanations. So all this is not new, second editionAdeptus Titanicusrounded out the fluff roughly described many of the Legios and included Emperor class titans for the first time, that was in 1995 I think.
So what we are seeing is a slow reawakening of the fluff from dormancy. Though Forgeworld has added stuff of their own, and even changed armament of all the Titans except the Warhound. The Reaver and Warlord are not legal for Epic with regards to main armament, and the Warlord contradicts the current Warlord datafax. The new measure is official though.
I dont think the fluff has changed significantly though, from what I have seen from Talos Campaign, and Doom of Mymeara the Titan Legions description does not go against Andy Chamber's vision from 1989. Titans came into Epic partly because of the popularity of Battletech at the time, the Clans storyline had just been introduced. Warlord titans were the most common titans in existence in the fluff because they were sold in plastic boxsets of six, wheras Warhounds and Reavers were in metal in blisters. To encourage variety for the very common Warlord titans you could even reduce or remove the carapace armament in return for a performance boost. In 1st edition Epic Warlords counted for over half of all Titans, in the 41st Millenium Reavers do. This need not be a contradiction, 1st Edition Epic was set in the Horus Heresy and both Titans and space marines were more common then.
Good Times:
Kurtz the scout Ace hunting for parts to replace a MIU, from memory from last reading the story attached to this picture in 1990. Kurtz was a very laid back individual for a Titan Princeps, from the story the titan is capable if limited independent movement and thought, but not combat. The Titan wasnt just parked that way, its actually watching Kurtz work. It was not capable of combat though, even though two Moderati were aboard. In 1st edition Titans didn't include a tech priest, that came with the next edition, but did make sense as each Titan had an accessible engineering area.
Notice the emergency loadout on the Reaver, Titans would fight Titans, and survive, but their weapon modules often wouldn't. Salvage was important, you can see the Battltech 3025 ethos throughout the product.
Loved all this, Orks and Eldar got a significant write up also.
Man, if GW could do Plastic Epic Titans to the standards of their FW Titans that would be fantstic. I think the icing on the cake would be 6mm scale plastic terrain. Mind you, in the meantime there's so many suppliers of 6mm off-brand Epic stuff it's kind of incredible.
Maybe its me, but it seems like the raven guard transfer sheet is gone from the forgeworld store. Maybe this points to Corax being the next primarch? Since the last set of new transfer sheets was for ultramarines and word bearers.
Ustrello wrote: Maybe its me, but it seems like the raven guard transfer sheet is gone from the forgeworld store. Maybe this points to Corax being the next primarch? Since the last set of new transfer sheets was for ultramarines and word bearers.
It probably points to a Raven Guard transfer sheet rather than Corax...
Orlanth wrote: ... The Reaver and Warlord are not legal for Epic with regards to main armament, and the Warlord contradicts the current Warlord datafax. ...
An excellent post. Many fond memories of playing Epic here. Still got piles of the stuff (actually painting some Epic Imperial Guards stands as I type). On the above quote, I assume you mean from just Adeptus Titanicus? Reavers were only restricted from taking plasma cannons and plasma destructors from 2nd edition onwards and I'll have to refresh my memory on the loadout rules from AT. Not sure why the Warlord isn't legal?
I'm still undecided on the walking LoS, its those chicken feet that make me think twice about it. I'm not expecting anything else new to be on sale for Sunday now, which is a little disappointing but I need to be catching up with my painting anyway.
zedmeister wrote: Imperial Fists players about to go Bananas about it being not Dorn in 3... 2... 1...
I'm an IF player and I was more excited for Polux and Sigy then Dorn. I'm actually assuming we wont see a model for him for quite sometime.
That being said its painful to say ,but Perturabo looks awesome. I cant wait to see the full model this weekend.
I really like the AL stuff. They give a nice little touch of character but are generic enough to blend into other legions to fit their whole 'It was me all along'-thing. Even as they are most of the time the lamest of the Chaos legions.
Perturabo fits the old artworks we had of him. He could have some more prominent safety stripes but that could be the perspective. Otherwise he is fine
zedmeister wrote: Imperial Fists players about to go Bananas about it being not Dorn in 3... 2... 1...
I'm an IF player and I was more excited for Polux and Sigy then Dorn. I'm actually assuming we wont see a model for him for quite sometime.
That being said its painful to say ,but Perturabo looks awesome. I cant wait to see the full model this weekend.
Yeah, he will look good whilst he is pulverised under the blows of our TH/SS Terminators too... For Dorn!
Is NOT a Titan Princeps, despite what the card says behind it. This is in fact an Imperial Knight pilot.
Don't care what they call it, will it fit in my Knight Warden?
IIRC the interior of both the Cerastus and plastic Knight are of the same format, it shouldn't be too hard to pull off.
Now, they just need to put him up before my birthday and I know what I'll be getting in addition to IA: Volume 1.5
I'm not sure what the idea behind this mini is, seeing as he's available both on foot and seated on his Throne Mechanicum. Maybe they're doing a universal interior kit for all patterns of Knight?
So I'm guessing perty will be available for pre-order at the event, but what about at Warhammer World after the event but before online? Haha I ask because I'm heading to Nottingham on Tuesday and may be tempted to make a bigger purchase than I had initially intended now that Perty has been announced...
BrookM wrote: I'm not sure what the idea behind this mini is, seeing as he's available both on foot and seated on his Throne Mechanicum. Maybe they're doing a universal interior kit for all patterns of Knight?
I think it's for dioramas and the like.
I know I would find it cool to have a 'quickswap' Throne Mechanicum, one empty and one with him seated.
Yeah that's my favourite too although I do like the two outside ones on the bottom row too.
To me they look a bit overdone. The left one needs to lose that chain and the right one didn't need that "Oh-my-God-so-secretive-that-no-one-knows-what-it-means" design.
Perturbo looks interesting but, at least from that partial view, in the middle of the pack for me personally. I'll reserve my final judgement for when we see the whole model but I suspect he'll stay in the good but not great primarch pile for me.
Yeah that's my favourite too although I do like the two outside ones on the bottom row too.
To me they look a bit overdone. The left one needs to lose that chain and the right one didn't need that "Oh-my-God-so-secretive-that-no-one-knows-what-it-means" design.
Isn't it just 'XX'? But a bit fancy? Basically their Legion number in a stylistic way.
Jpogfreak886 wrote: So I'm guessing perty will be available for pre-order at the event, but what about at Warhammer World after the event but before online? Haha I ask because I'm heading to Nottingham on Tuesday and may be tempted to make a bigger purchase than I had initially intended now that Perty has been announced...
Most likely he will be on general sale on the Sunday and not be available to order online or in person at WW for a couple of weeks going by the release of all the other primarchs. I know not everybody agrees but I've seen a clear pattern that FW keep back some of the new models just for the shows to make it worth while to attend them.
The Alpha Legion stuff looks solid. The helmets look different but somehow like every Legion could use them (which fits the Alpha Legion perfectly).
Perturabo looks good, but final judgement has to wait until I see a picture of the whole model. As you I am interested if Forgebreaker will be part of the model.
This chaos thing however ... the proportions look very ugly.
Also, whoever is going, take a lot of pictures. Ple-e-e-e-ese.
P.S. O.K., I just red through all math tables on 1d4chan and Alpharius gets killed by every Primarch. What the hell? Unless there is a miniature of Omegon coming up with his special rules where two of them actually become "one Primarch", I think Alpharius has a really dumb set of rules. Can anyone who is going to FW Open Day ask if there is a plan to have another HH campaign book with AL where Omegon appears? Thanks, much appreciated.
reds8n wrote: Polite request for anyone attending the open day tomorrow :
I'm sure people would be very happy if you could ask about any ETA for updated AoSigmar compliant rules for their fantasy range.
Thanks in advance.
Better yet, could someone ask if there's any chance we'll see real Warhammer revived as a Heresy-esque project by the FW team? Huge longshot, obvie, but I'm still in the Bargaining stage right now.
EDIT: And I don't just mean the game rules, I mean the Old World fluff too.
Yaraton wrote: P.S. O.K., I just red through all math tables on 1d4chan and Alpharius gets killed by every Primarch. What the hell? Unless there is a miniature of Omegon coming up with his special rules where two of them actually become "one Primarch", I think Alpharius has a really dumb set of rules. Can anyone who is going to FW Open Day ask if there is a plan to have another HH campaign book with AL where Omegon appears? Thanks, much appreciated.
Alpharius is widely considered one of the best primarchs. He has some of the best army buffs, and despite the fact that he loses to any other primarch in a duel, he's actually a combat beast too. His brother primarchs can brag that they would theoretically beat him if only games lasted a few turns longer, but Alpharius has rules like armourbane and instant death that make him lethal in combats that will actually be resolved before the end of the game.
Thamor wrote: Blood Angel and Dark Angel upgrades. Unremembered Empire tie in with the Shadow Crusade for the next book?
They're getting upgrade sets and possibly ROWs for every legion they haven't done yet so everyone has something; we saw the WS ones at the last event.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
White Scars, Blood Angels and Dark Angels are all in the next book. They will have legion rules but no characters or legion specific units.
Book 6 will cover shattered legions and will focus on players creating own narratives for small scale engagements.
Future book will be Thramas and Signis Prime (mirroring the old Blood Angels/Dark Angels codex)
Prospero may not even be book 7. They need to ensure that they can produce the entire range quickly and efficiently and not keep people waiting. To create all the models needed for Prospero would take about a year.
Thamor wrote: Blood Angel and Dark Angel upgrades. Unremembered Empire tie in with the Shadow Crusade for the next book?
They're getting upgrade sets and possibly ROWs for every legion they haven't done yet so everyone has something; we saw the WS ones at the last event.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
White Scars, Blood Angels and Dark Angels are all in the next book. They will have legion rules but no characters or legion specific units.
Book 6 will cover shattered legions and will focus on players creating own narratives for small scale engagements.
Future book will be Thramas and Signis Prime (mirroring the old Blood Angels/Dark Angels codex)
Prospero may not even be book 7. They need to ensure that they can produce the entire range quickly and efficiently and not keep people waiting. To create all the models needed for Prospero would take about a year.
Book 6 will be another shattered legions similae to Conquest? What about the Shadow Crusade?
Thamor wrote: Blood Angel and Dark Angel upgrades. Unremembered Empire tie in with the Shadow Crusade for the next book?
They're getting upgrade sets and possibly ROWs for every legion they haven't done yet so everyone has something; we saw the WS ones at the last event.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
White Scars, Blood Angels and Dark Angels are all in the next book. They will have legion rules but no characters or legion specific units.
Book 6 will cover shattered legions and will focus on players creating own narratives for small scale engagements.
Future book will be Thramas and Signis Prime (mirroring the old Blood Angels/Dark Angels codex)
Prospero may not even be book 7. They need to ensure that they can produce the entire range quickly and efficiently and not keep people waiting. To create all the models needed for Prospero would take about a year.
Book 6 will be another shattered legions similae to Conquest? What about the Shadow Crusade?
Conquest doesn't touch the Shattered Legions at all, afaik. They were meant to be in there but it got too big. And I dunno about that, it was meant to be book 6 but at the last event they said they didn't know anymore, the order hadn't been finalised. Until it's announced properly it's always open to change.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Mastadon's basically "What if we merged the CAD files for the Land Raider, the super-heavy Land Raider and a Thunderhawk together!".
And I see they're padding outtreading waterstalling writing lots of new HH books.
Quite annoying that they're stalling now isn't it? I wish they'd just get all the Legions done and expand from there.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Mastadon's basically "What if we merged the CAD files for the Land Raider, the super-heavy Land Raider and a Thunderhawk together!".
And I see they're padding outtreading waterstalling writing lots of new HH books.
Quite annoying that they're stalling now isn't it? I wish they'd just get all the Legions done and expand from there.
Is that not what they're doing putting WS, DA and BA in the next book...?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thousand Sons upgrades should be released in September apparantly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Book 6 will be shattered legions plus basci legiones asartes rules for DA, BA and WS.
Having some issues with rules balance on shattered legions front.
Prospero pretty much sorted, waiting for models to be done.
End of year for book 6.
No prospero till next year
Will get a horus heresy era marine red book.
Then a seige of terra/scouring/protochaos redbook.
Those are both far off though.
Legions can change their spots (ala word bearers). Some specific ones mentioned were fists and alphas.
Some juicy alpha stuff hinted at being in the pipeline. (Mr blighs words were yes they will change/split but i cant tell you any more).
Space wolves will be very different from 40k wolves when they arrive. Bligh is expecting :cuss to hit the fan.
Will post more soon
The Tau knight is slowed, it's another huge leap in FW's design ethos of basically covering a model in superglue and rolling it in a box of weapons. I don't know why they're so insistent that every new release has to outgun every older model in its size class.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Mastadon's basically "What if we merged the CAD files for the Land Raider, the super-heavy Land Raider and a Thunderhawk together!".
And I see they're padding outtreading waterstalling writing lots of new HH books.
Quite annoying that they're stalling now isn't it? I wish they'd just get all the Legions done and expand from there.
Is that not what they're doing putting WS, DA and BA in the next book...?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thousand Sons upgrades should be released in September apparantly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Book 6 will be shattered legions plus basci legiones asartes rules for DA, BA and WS.
Having some issues with rules balance on shattered legions front.
Prospero pretty much sorted, waiting for models to be done.
End of year for book 6.
No prospero till next year
Will get a horus heresy era marine red book.
Then a seige of terra/scouring/protochaos redbook.
Those are both far off though.
Legions can change their spots (ala word bearers). Some specific ones mentioned were fists and alphas.
Some juicy alpha stuff hinted at being in the pipeline. (Mr blighs words were yes they will change/split but i cant tell you any more).
Space wolves will be very different from 40k wolves when they arrive. Bligh is expecting :cuss to hit the fan.
Will post more soon
I suppose they are getting the rules out but no rules for specific units like other Legions.
So Thramas/Signus is in between book 6 and prospero?
Thanks to everyone who took pictures and are nice enough to share with us, I look forward to every event from forge world.
So perturabo makes it primarch #10 to be released, I think forge world have been keeping up the pace with all character releases so far, I know it blows when the one you want hasn't been released, but they are coming.
Tamereth wrote: Any one else notice the price of perturabo if £70. Wasn't the first Primarch £45?
At this rate by the time Russ / Dorn come they will be he price of a titan.
And it does really feel like they are dragging out the series now.
The first was £50 I think. His price does annoy me because you're basically paying for the base which is bigger than Perty himself.
I still don't get the impression that they're dragging it out though.
No, they are really speeding up with regards to models. It is tough for me to finish all models of the character series and put some special units in between because of the sheer number they are releasing right now. Its just not possible for them to do the books faster ... and I am alright with that.
Tamereth wrote: Any one else notice the price of perturabo if £70. Wasn't the first Primarch £45?
At this rate by the time Russ / Dorn come they will be he price of a titan.
And it does really feel like they are dragging out the series now.
The first was £50 I think. His price does annoy me because you're basically paying for the base which is bigger than Perty himself.
I still don't get the impression that they're dragging it out though.
No, they are really speeding up with regards to models. It is tough for me to finish all models of the character series and put some special units in between because of the sheer number they are releasing right now. Its just not possible for them to do the books faster ... and I am alright with that.
Mastodon: want. Should make a lovely command vehicle/mobile lab for my Archmagos after I fiddle with the interior a bit. From the pics it's a bit hard to tell the scale; do you think a Centaur would fit into the front bay if you removed the dividing wall?
Macrotech Enginseer & skitters: WANT. I have no idea what I'd use the automata for, but I want them anyway, and the Enginseer is fantastic - it's an update of one of the ancient AM sculpts you could get through the Skullz programme right?
Techmarines; first impression is "meh", although that might just be the poor lighting in the pic and the fact they're competing with the Enginseer.
Perturabo; eh, nice enough, but not for me - always liked the IW as a Legion, but Perty always seemed a bit of a berk. Plus, the trend of giving them HUEG bases and then making us pay through the nose for them is getting tiresome - release them with the 40mm insert and sell the display 60mm separately to folk that want them IMO.
I'll ask my wee favour again; could someone ask the designers if there's any prospect we could see a revival of the Old World and real WHFB rules as a Heresy-style project from FW? Not soon obviously, but maybe in future?
That Tau model is so stupid. I really want to like it, it's a much better look than the riptide, but it's so fething over-the-top it's just not funny anymore. Three giant cannons on the back (don't look like rail weapons, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was a new look for them), what appears to be six ion accelerators with three on each arm (people cry enough as it is about just one), multiple smart missile systems and burst cannons on the torso, god only knows what else. It also looks ridiculously top heavy; way, way worse than the old broadside ever was. Personally I love back-mounted guns like that and miss the old silhouette the broadside used to have, but this is just stupid.
I was pissed off enough when the riptide came out. Even more annoyed when FW started putting out multiple new kits based on the riptide instead of, you know, cool models I'd actually like to buy like new vehicles and aircraft (or how about something out of left field and release a new infantry unit for once?). And now this, with rumors that GW is going to be releasing another big plastic robot like the riptide but with a ton of missiles. THIS ISN'T TAU. Tau relied on man-sized units like stealth suits and crisis suits/broadsides were as big as they could get, standing only two to two and a half times the size of a man. Anything bigger than that was too impractical and the role better filled by tanks and aircraft. They didn't need gak like this before to bust titans with, the tigersharks retro-fitted with starship-sized railguns were good enough, and if I'm not mistaken they even canonically have super heavy grav tanks and stuff that have yet to materialize as models, even though they would probably look really cool (if the hammerhead is anything to go by, which is still my favorite Tau model) as well as being perfectly fluffy. It was good fluff, made sense, and also had the bonus of not being trope-y, with the giant super robot theme being exactly what you'd expect from something that's meant to be anime-inspired. Tau USED TO BE one of the only exceptions, but GW threw that out the window because apparently Gundams = $$$.
Only thing that's missing now is a new warlord-sized suit with a dock for a smaller suit. Maybe we can get a new unit of riptide-sized suits specifically designed to fight daemons that are all piloted by emotional female Tau. Or how about a battlesuit the size of a GALAXY. Give me a god-damned break, I'm so fething mad now between this and AoS. Just kill everything I like about your games why don't you, who gives a gak anymore?
Yodhrin wrote: I'll ask my wee favour again; could someone ask the designers if there's any prospect we could see a revival of the Old World and real WHFB rules as a Heresy-style project from FW? Not soon obviously, but maybe in future?
I wouldn't count on it. I'm surprised they even had that Tau model to show off because they're almost completely dedicated to pushing out Horus Heresy stuff. I remember there being rumors of that thing in the works a while ago but just assumed it would have been scrapped so we could get MORE MAHREENS. Obviously, I'm a little upset that it wasn't...or at least that it turned out to be another fethhueg battlesuit instead of something not stupid.
I a big fan of that bad boy, Liking purterabo apart from the price tag, not really a fan of that ridiculous lord of skulls with legs, but i guess I cant have everything !!
Just got back, picked up the new Chaos Knight and the Khorne Walker on top of my pre order of destroyers, assault marines and scallax. Both the Knight and the Walker have good quality paper rules in the box, I really hope this trend carries on as it is really useful, I'd like to see the paper replaced with laminated cardboard though.
The new Tau walker is just massive, really impressive model.
The Masterdon looks almost finished now, had two options for weapons on display, missile launcher or some sort of auto cannon variant. It is massive, 40 marine capacity, looks to be very good.
They had a painted warlord with the missile launchers in the participation game so looks like those will be available very shortly.
Okay. I spoke to his Bligh-ness about a few things. (very cool bloke ^_^ )
The reason why some models and kits come out sooner than others is due to the main models being completed as a priority. Once a sculptor is free, they might be inclined to do a certain thing over another. As long as the main models etc are done, there is a little room to accommodate this. Hence Eidolon appearing seemingly out of nowhere, for example.
There WILL be a Ventanus model. The intention is there to do Thiel at some point too :wub:
The book that deals with Calth and the aftermath (along with Angrons' assention and other stuff) will be the book after the next AT THE EARLIEST.
Also Hyaenidae - the Tyrant Siege Termis. They will be along SOONER than later
Looky Likey, roughly how big is the Tau thing? Knight sized? Looks huge.
Okay, so in the dark angel upgrade pics, the blank shoulder pad has a thicker rim to match the upgrade pad. Does anyone else think and hope that this is an indication of an update to the legion armour kits? It was so frustrating the first time I ordered a set of shoulder pads only to find out that they had a thick rim that looked out of place with the regular pads
by the by, thanks to those taking and uploading the pictures
Crap.... I just failed my 2++ rerollable mental armor save... that mega broadside looks awesome!!!! I wouldn't even convert anything on it unlike the Yvahra that I also like. It's like a Tau version of the Robotech MAC II monster mech.
Mechanicum red book? Yes, please. Gimme now.
Eidolon looks awesome. My EC are loyalist, but I may still have to pick him up as a totally not yet evil Eidolon.
Awesome stuff. The Tau titan is a bit ridiculous. I mean it's really cool in a Gundam/anime/mecha style but, would take 10 minutes just to resolve all of it's shooting!
Everything else looks awesome as well. I want to see a Mastadon next to a CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!!
SickSix wrote: Awesome stuff. The Tau titan is a bit ridiculous. I mean it's really cool in a Gundam/anime/mecha style but, would take 10 minutes just to resolve all of it's shooting!
I'm ok with that...you know...for the greater good and all.
LOL Dirge Caster Chaos Knight. That's awesome. I don't like how the same "Daemon Knight of <X>" is basically the same thing compared to all their old FW Chaos vehicle god-upgrades. I do like that the chainsword is +1 to the D table, though! (But that price tag...)
By chance did they mention the GW Horus Heresy line at all (is it still a rumor we're expecting to be true?)? I'm curious if all future releases will end up being upgrade sprues to go over the upcoming GW plastics or if we'll see complete kits still.
Also news of Thousand Sons models coming as early as September is amazing. I wonder if FW is the reason for all the Thousand Sons rumors we've seen so far.
lord_blackfang wrote: Oooh, better watch out, the Tzeentch one has Soul Blaze on the heavy stubber!
Right? I expected at least +1 to Ion Shield. In any case, I think the order of bad to worse is Khorne->Nurgle->Slaanesh->Tzeentch. Which is a change-up from Slaanesh typically being the worse in FW!
But they arent bad though, are they. They are exactly the same as regular knights but woth +1 ln the d table vs mc's/ gmc's. Demon upgrades are choize. Tzeentch one is actually pretty good!
I find the Khorne one pretty good. Imperials pay 15 points for a 6+ to all facings that doesnt work in CC. Chaos pay 50 for a 5++ to all facings, that works in CC, in addition to their ion shields, rerollable number of stomps and upto 6 attacks on the charge.
Right, I'm back in a hotel now so can do more of a detailed breakdown.
I think I've posted all of the pictures that I took. I spoke to Blake Spence about the Mastadon first thing (it was the first thing in the display room), and that is a fantastic kit. Rules are still being worked on, and the model on show was a first Production run to which they need to fine tune the molds. In terms of transport capacity it is alleged to hold between 30 and 40, and is designed to cut through and blow through walls to deliver shock troops - it's like a Karybdiss, but as a tank. It was originally thought up with front tracks based on the Sicarian and the rear as a Land Raider. Front doors have Frag Assault launchers, and are operated on moving Pistons - this thing could a pain to put together. It has Void Shields (2x bubble things on the top in the middle) and has a rear turret that can fit razorback size armaments. I'm recalling loving it, and can see this being a purchase. Timeframes are unclear, but there's still a month or two of work left on it.
Spent a long time talking to Alan Bligh about various bits and pieces. For the non heresy stuff, they'll be releasing warscrolls for their Warhammer Forge things in the next month or two, and they would like to do another book in the future if time permits. For 40k they are looking to do more Imperial Armour, and the hint is that Tau may be involved (hence the giant battle suit). They would like to do more, but they have a lot of projects and could really do with more writers to get through all the things they would like to do. I asked about a 40k Mechanicus book using 30k models and rules, and the response I got was "we'd be stupid not too" - the caveat that I was given was that a lot of the Cybernetica stuff would most likely be out of production for 10,000 years and they can't rebuild it, and also likely to be forbidden tech. I think it's something they are throwing about in the early design process at the moment.
With respect to the Heresy stuff - book 6 is now almost certainly Shattered Legions, but they may sneak in a chapter at the end of the book with 'the remaining legions' specific rules and Rites of War, just not named characters or Primarchs. This follows nicely with the upgrades we've been seeing, and is an acknowledgement to players that want to get started with their legion before the specified book comes out. As an aside I heard second hand, and not via Alan Bligh, that book 6 would be called Retalliation, and would feature Iron Warriors. Which also coincides with the artwork that was being done as demos, they were working on a Salamanders Falchion (so Shattered Legions) and Iron Warrior legionnaires.
Alan also had a Mechanicum red book on his desk, which is Production ready and awaiting arrival on the ship - so should be 5-6 weeks before it comes up for order. Alan mentioned going forward that if there were a large shift in the basic 40k rules that needed addressing they would update the red book rather than the main books, so no Massacre 2nd Edition. Also red book has Orinatus rules in it, 2 different profiles.
For Prospero, it sounds like the rules have progressed but are still being play tested, now the delays are coming in from model design. There are 4 unique looking armies to consider, and according to Alan the Wolves are very different to their 40k iteration, and he's looking forward to seeing how people react to them. Customers sound like they're going down full army route (another "we'd be silly not to" remark) and sound like they'd eventually get Terminators, Dreadnoughrs, and other units.
He is working on a lot of stuff in parallel, even within the Heresy side, including some preliminary stuff on the other untouched legions. He remarked that some of the nuggets of information in Unremembered Empire about the Dark Angels was based on some of his thoughts that he'd provided to the author and they had dropped in. Discussing how Black Library and ForgeWorld operate, there isn't any delay on either the ForgeWorld or Black Library sides to keep the timeline in sync, but ForgeWorld do have to keep an eye on not accidentally spoiling upcoming books when writing their own background and narratives.
The Moddelling Masterclass book is looking good, and should be coming available in the next couple of months. Saw snapshots of the photos for painting an Imperial Fist Falchion, and a Warlord Titan.
Simon Egan is not giving away anything on the next Primarch he's working on. Heard him get asked a number of times, and every time he stated he wasn't allowed to say anything or drop any hints, which he didn't. My thought - if book 6 is Shattered Legions and Iron Warriors, the only Legion without a Primarch would be the Raven Guard, so personally I think it would make sense for it to be Corax. But, that's just my opinion.
Transfers look like they're getting a big push now, and saw Imperial Fist sheets being worked upon by Holly Goodwin. There's an entire book of various Legion and Legio sheets that are closing to Production, so these should be coming out thick and fast soon enough.
Of the new sneak peeks, I was really impressed with the Techmarines. I couldn't get a decent photo due to the light coming in from the outside, but did try some basic iPhone imagine manipulation to show them up. They have a bit of an iron Hands feel to them, but the armour is very unique. With two there I'm assuming it must be similar to theApothecaries where they come in 2 to a pack.
The only downside was that the Design area was as hot as Hell! I don't know if that room had air con or not, but with the Bugmans kitchen next door, lots of studio lights, and an increasingly busy area, it quickly became unbearable for me. They had industrial floor fans, but by mid morning they were only blowing the warm air about. I don't know how the ForgeWorld team managed to survive in there, so Kudos to them all.
I'll try and have a think back to see what other nuggets I managed to glean. I couldn't find anything about the Stormbird, or rules for the new release models (although it looks like one was spied). Several characters sound like they're getting rules, but whether they will or not is another matter.
That Mastodon!! After reading its description in a couple of HH novels I've been racking my brains over how it should look in case I ever wanted to design and scratch build my own! I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore. It's not quite how I pictured it, of course, but I like it, adding to my Christmas list for sure! Excited about this(these) new "medium" tank being hinted at. Also looking forward to Shattered Legions stuff!
Yeah I think that the Mastadon is the highlight of the open day and what will probably be the centerpiece of my army. Looks like it would make for a great command vehicle.
It's sad to hear that Prospero is getting pushed back once more but understandable given that it is the most anticipated book and they really want to make it something special.
I'd rather they took their time on Prospero to do it justice, but every time they push it back the expectations rise so it better be bloody good! I agree the Mastodon is a favourite of mine. Excited for the BA upgrades too. Pretty happy with everything shown really, the only negative is Perturabo's price, don't get why he's so expensive (well the base, but I don't get why he needed such a massive base).
Formosa wrote:So... Do I get an unequivocal apology in regards to the dark angels that are "nowhere on the horizon"
If you could show me where the new named units are, new Dark Angels background is and how I was wrong in saying 'you'll get a torsos and shoulder pads kit', that would be great.
There are 3 people who write this stuff up at the top end. They have not begun anything in relation to Dark Angels. I know this.
So, again, to reiterate, a unit kit isn't a legion release indication, Dark Angels continue to be nowhere on the horizon. The 3 might sit down tomorrow morning and decide that it's time to start thinking about them, but right now, the have not. As I mentioned previously, those unit upgrades and so on, the 'bits and pieces' don't require sanction and people can sculpt them and release them as they affect nothing in gaming. Anything larger requires meeting and approval, FW isn't like GW, it still has a unified design team who work together, rather than siloed.
I'll suggest to you that perhaps you know someone who's in casting or sculpting who's seen the Dark Angel kit and the rest was conjecture or speculation on their part, but again, 100%, the Dark Angels Legion has not been started on, there has been no, zero, ziltch discussion on named units or abilities or anything else. There has been no pondering in meetings nor enthusiastic idea bouncing at the pub, Dark Angels have not been looked at by the big 3 at all. There is no brief.
Please reread what you wrote and what I wrote in response.
Formosa wrote:This is the first rumour I'm happy to go on the tracker about, I spoke to my mate whom works at forge world (in a prominent well known position) and the person has informed me that dark angels are now being worked on, they have had a brief about how they want the dark angels to behave, and are hashing out the pre lion el jonson fluff, this ive been told will be more extensive than any of the other pre primarch fluff as I was told it is key to the events that happen during and after the heresy, I asked what units to expect and they stated that nothing solid has been nailed down just yet, but throwing around names such as deathwing paladins, doom knights (not a clue what this could be) and several others, I personally don't know how long development takes bit this is exciting to me.
Glad to share all.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
This isn't personal, I don't know you and I'm not trying to pick a fight. What I will say is that if you're going about saying people from FW told you stuff at WW and there were people from FW at WW, you could potentially land those people in very serious gak if there was validity to you claim. If you think this forum isn't read by people in the company at high level, you'd be wrong. Hypothetically.
If they'd been started on, with units named, rules proposed, primarch worked on as you suggest, then the holy trinity would know about it, that's Alan, Neil and Andy. Hypothetically they have not touched on Dark Angels at all and the most you might see are some shoulder pads/torsos etc knocked out at some stage, as those don't require the big sanction, but rules, names of units, whole unit figure releases etc, newp...
Sidstyler wrote: That Tau model is so stupid. I really want to like it, it's a much better look than the riptide, but it's so fething over-the-top it's just not funny anymore. Three giant cannons on the back (don't look like rail weapons, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was a new look for them), what appears to be six ion accelerators with three on each arm (people cry enough as it is about just one), multiple smart missile systems and burst cannons on the torso, god only knows what else. It also looks ridiculously top heavy; way, way worse than the old broadside ever was. Personally I love back-mounted guns like that and miss the old silhouette the broadside used to have, but this is just stupid.
I was pissed off enough when the riptide came out. Even more annoyed when FW started putting out multiple new kits based on the riptide instead of, you know, cool models I'd actually like to buy like new vehicles and aircraft (or how about something out of left field and release a new infantry unit for once?). And now this, with rumors that GW is going to be releasing another big plastic robot like the riptide but with a ton of missiles. THIS ISN'T TAU. Tau relied on man-sized units like stealth suits and crisis suits/broadsides were as big as they could get, standing only two to two and a half times the size of a man. Anything bigger than that was too impractical and the role better filled by tanks and aircraft. They didn't need gak like this before to bust titans with, the tigersharks retro-fitted with starship-sized railguns were good enough, and if I'm not mistaken they even canonically have super heavy grav tanks and stuff that have yet to materialize as models, even though they would probably look really cool (if the hammerhead is anything to go by, which is still my favorite Tau model) as well as being perfectly fluffy. It was good fluff, made sense, and also had the bonus of not being trope-y, with the giant super robot theme being exactly what you'd expect from something that's meant to be anime-inspired. Tau USED TO BE one of the only exceptions, but GW threw that out the window because apparently Gundams = $$$.
Only thing that's missing now is a new warlord-sized suit with a dock for a smaller suit. Maybe we can get a new unit of riptide-sized suits specifically designed to fight daemons that are all piloted by emotional female Tau. Or how about a battlesuit the size of a GALAXY. Give me a god-damned break, I'm so fething mad now between this and AoS. Just kill everything I like about your games why don't you, who gives a gak anymore?
Exactly what I was going to say. FFS, stop making more giant anime robots and give us proper tanks and aircraft.
Formosa wrote:So... Do I get an unequivocal apology in regards to the dark angels that are "nowhere on the horizon"
If you could show me where the new named units are, new Dark Angels background is and how I was wrong in saying 'you'll get a torsos and shoulder pads kit', that would be great.
There are 3 people who write this stuff up at the top end. They have not begun anything in relation to Dark Angels. I know this.
So, again, to reiterate, a unit kit isn't a legion release indication, Dark Angels continue to be nowhere on the horizon. The 3 might sit down tomorrow morning and decide that it's time to start thinking about them, but right now, the have not. As I mentioned previously, those unit upgrades and so on, the 'bits and pieces' don't require sanction and people can sculpt them and release them as they affect nothing in gaming. Anything larger requires meeting and approval, FW isn't like GW, it still has a unified design team who work together, rather than siloed.
I'll suggest to you that perhaps you know someone who's in casting or sculpting who's seen the Dark Angel kit and the rest was conjecture or speculation on their part, but again, 100%, the Dark Angels Legion has not been started on, there has been no, zero, ziltch discussion on named units or abilities or anything else. There has been no pondering in meetings nor enthusiastic idea bouncing at the pub, Dark Angels have not been looked at by the big 3 at all. There is no brief.
Please reread what you wrote and what I wrote in response.
Formosa wrote:This is the first rumour I'm happy to go on the tracker about, I spoke to my mate whom works at forge world (in a prominent well known position) and the person has informed me that dark angels are now being worked on, they have had a brief about how they want the dark angels to behave, and are hashing out the pre lion el jonson fluff, this ive been told will be more extensive than any of the other pre primarch fluff as I was told it is key to the events that happen during and after the heresy, I asked what units to expect and they stated that nothing solid has been nailed down just yet, but throwing around names such as deathwing paladins, doom knights (not a clue what this could be) and several others, I personally don't know how long development takes bit this is exciting to me.
Glad to share all.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
This isn't personal, I don't know you and I'm not trying to pick a fight. What I will say is that if you're going about saying people from FW told you stuff at WW and there were people from FW at WW, you could potentially land those people in very serious gak if there was validity to you claim. If you think this forum isn't read by people in the company at high level, you'd be wrong. Hypothetically.
If they'd been started on, with units named, rules proposed, primarch worked on as you suggest, then the holy trinity would know about it, that's Alan, Neil and Andy. Hypothetically they have not touched on Dark Angels at all and the most you might see are some shoulder pads/torsos etc knocked out at some stage, as those don't require the big sanction, but rules, names of units, whole unit figure releases etc, newp...
Key note, "being worked on", I was right, just admit it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also in the break down above it was also stated that the dark angels are being worked on.
I could pick any legion that's not yet been covered in detail, pull some names out of my arse and say 'it's being worked on', because, logically, if FW doesn't fall into the ocean and the HH isn't suddenly dropped as unpopular, the legion will eventually get covered off.
As of today, the big 3 have done nothing, there has been no meeting about names, no looking into the legion at all. They are not being worked on and they were not being worked on when you started this rumor.
An upgrade set does not maketh a legion release. There will be a release for the legion, but as of yet, there most certainly isn't and you either conjured it or got your wires crossed or someone else got their wires crossed.
The Dark Angels are not being 'worked on'. There is no release of this legion penned in yet, no 'brief' has been set.
It's already been mentioned a couple of times from the open day that the Blood Angels, White Scars, and Dark Angels will get their legion rules in the next book, just not special units or characters. That still qualifies as "being worked on."
It'll be interesting to see how they manage the Mechanicum in 40k. The problem being as they say all the Cybernetica stuff that no longer exists in the 40k era. So now they have to come up with an excuse. In my opinion the fact that in some cases it's forbidden technology makes it a perfect point of distinction for the Dark Mechanicum to still use them.
I think for 40k they should just neuter them a bit to represent the safeguards on the technology... Like no cybertheulegy... And make them conform to the squad structure of the 40k robots we already have... That is a tech priest handler who keeps them in line incase they go bonkers.
Tannhauser42 wrote: It's already been mentioned a couple of times from the open day that the Blood Angels, White Scars, and Dark Angels will get their legion rules in the next book, just not special units or characters. That still qualifies as "being worked on."
Agreed, I would count it too.
This event has done nothing to help me choose which legions to do. My list genuinely has 16 out of the 18 legions on it...
Peregrine wrote: Exactly what I was going to say. FFS, stop making more giant anime robots and give us proper tanks and aircraft.
I disagree in this case although I don't think I'd want it to continue. I was a fan of the idea of the riptide but not the execution of the plastic kit (I'm not a fan of that design). For better or worse, the tau were designed (despite GW's chapterhouse assertions) and continue to be looked at as anime mecha and mecha come in different sizes which wasn't adequately represented in the Tau lineup. I know the fluff was initially that things like the Manta were supposed to take on the titans (latter joined by the two fliers) but they simply didn't sell nor inspire most folks. The rules also didn't help since they kind of sucked for the bigger tau stuff. The manta was a very cool design but a price north of $1000 (but including a landing bay full of other models) but very crappy stats compared to the biggest titans that they were fighitng. The Orca was roughly in the same spot as well with a cool design but crap stats. I can't speak for anyone else but the Tigershark and Barracuda model designs really turned me off to them regardless fo the stats and they were the only choice for "bigger" tau stuff. I'm a fan of having one of each "bigger" apoc style tau suits to match the "normal" 40k ones. Obviously with the current apoc everywhere every game 40k mentality of 7th edition those distinctions no longer apply but I'm glad that they'll have one of each. I wouldn't support have even more in plastic than one of each class (a "fast" one and a "heavy" one) though from GW proper. I would have hoped something like that would be out in plastic for the tau but it looks like FW is instead leading the way straight past GW.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I could pick any legion that's not yet been covered in detail, pull some names out of my arse and say 'it's being worked on', because, logically, if FW doesn't fall into the ocean and the HH isn't suddenly dropped as unpopular, the legion will eventually get covered off.
As of today, the big 3 have done nothing, there has been no meeting about names, no looking into the legion at all. They are not being worked on and they were not being worked on when you started this rumor.
An upgrade set does not maketh a legion release. There will be a release for the legion, but as of yet, there most certainly isn't and you either conjured it or got your wires crossed or someone else got their wires crossed.
The Dark Angels are not being 'worked on'. There is no release of this legion penned in yet, no 'brief' has been set.
You remain wrong.
Even though the information posted jn this exact forum has contradicted you, you still remain adamant you are correct in spite of what I and others are telling you, I shared information That has been later confirmed, where as you have provided nothing, not a thing, other than refusing to admit it may be you that has his wires crossed.
aka_mythos wrote: It'll be interesting to see how they manage the Mechanicum in 40k. The problem being as they say all the Cybernetica stuff that no longer exists in the 40k era. So now they have to come up with an excuse. In my opinion the fact that in some cases it's forbidden technology makes it a perfect point of distinction for the Dark Mechanicum to still use them.
I think for 40k they should just neuter them a bit to represent the safeguards on the technology... Like no cybertheulegy... And make them conform to the squad structure of the 40k robots we already have... That is a tech priest handler who keeps them in line incase they go bonkers.
He might be saying that because Castellax are functionally and aesthetically too similar to Kastellans for GW's comfort, and will either cannibalise sales of the latter or cause too much overlap.
There are enough HH Mechanicum units for a more substantial 40k Codex already, give us a Mechanicus Armour book!
aka_mythos wrote: It'll be interesting to see how they manage the Mechanicum in 40k. The problem being as they say all the Cybernetica stuff that no longer exists in the 40k era. So now they have to come up with an excuse. In my opinion the fact that in some cases it's forbidden technology makes it a perfect point of distinction for the Dark Mechanicum to still use them.
I think for 40k they should just neuter them a bit to represent the safeguards on the technology... Like no cybertheulegy... And make them conform to the squad structure of the 40k robots we already have... That is a tech priest handler who keeps them in line incase they go bonkers.
He might be saying that because Castellax are functionally and aesthetically too similar to Kastellans for GW's comfort, and will either cannibalise sales of the latter or cause too much overlap.
There are enough HH Mechanicum units for a more substantial 40k Codex already, give us a Mechanicus Armour book!
Some possibilities to incorporate such models without too much overlap would be to put limitations on how many can be fielded. If, for example, The various battle-automata, like the Castellax, become Elite choices that can only be fielded in units of one. Thallax could be Elites that only come in units of three. The Thanatar could be a Lord of War. Options like Paragon of Metal might not be available. That's just a few ideas that spring to mind right away. A lot of Mechanicum stuff should still be available, like the vehicles, Myrmidons, tech-thralls etc.
Does the Khorne Knight and Chaos knight come as one kit or do I have to buy the Lord of skulls and the Imperial Knight kit in addition? In other words, is what is shown just and upgrade kit or an all in one package?
Bodacious2182 wrote: Does the Khorne Knight and Chaos knight come as one kit or do I have to buy the Lord of skulls and the Imperial Knight kit in addition? In other words, is what is shown just and upgrade kit or an all in one package?
If somebody already mentioned this I missed it.
The Chaos knight is definitely a full kit, it's £110 so it'll have the plastic parts included. The other one I'm not so sure; it's £90 so that's cheaper than the actual Khorne thing it's based on right? So probably just the legs? Or maybe it only comes with the sprue said for the upper... Actually the leaflet of models you could buy today just says 'Kitan Khorne Daemon Engine', no conversion kit or whatever.
warboss wrote: For better or worse, the tau were designed (despite GW's chapterhouse assertions) and continue to be looked at as anime mecha and mecha come in different sizes which wasn't adequately represented in the Tau lineup.
They were designed with those influences, but that doesn't mean that they need to be literal copies. Who cares if anime has different sizes of giant robots? Tau were just fine with limiting their battlesuits to Starship Troopers style power armor.
I know the fluff was initially that things like the Manta were supposed to take on the titans (latter joined by the two fliers) but they simply didn't sell nor inspire most folks.
I don't really see how this is relevant. The Manta and Tigershark were obviously going to sell poorly because they're large resin kits with huge price tags and rules that, until 7th edition, were not allowed in normal 40k games. The Manta especially suffers from this problem, most people don't have the skill to build one even if they can afford the cost, and it just isn't practical to put one on most gaming tables. A Manta-sized battlesuit would have the same problems and sell just as poorly.
The rules also didn't help since they kind of sucked for the bigger tau stuff.
Then fix the rules. You don't need to make new fluff-destroying giant anime robots just to give Tau decent superheavy rules.
I can't speak for anyone else but the Tigershark and Barracuda model designs really turned me off to them regardless fo the stats and they were the only choice for "bigger" tau stuff.
Alternatively, I love both of those models and wish that FW had given them better rules. And I would have loved to see a superheavy counterpart to the Hammerhead, another design I really like.
Sidstyler wrote: That Tau model is so stupid. I really want to like it, it's a much better look than the riptide, but it's so fething over-the-top it's just not funny anymore. Three giant cannons on the back (don't look like rail weapons, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was a new look for them), what appears to be six ion accelerators with three on each arm (people cry enough as it is about just one), multiple smart missile systems and burst cannons on the torso, god only knows what else. It also looks ridiculously top heavy; way, way worse than the old broadside ever was. Personally I love back-mounted guns like that and miss the old silhouette the broadside used to have, but this is just stupid.
I was pissed off enough when the riptide came out. Even more annoyed when FW started putting out multiple new kits based on the riptide instead of, you know, cool models I'd actually like to buy like new vehicles and aircraft (or how about something out of left field and release a new infantry unit for once?). And now this, with rumors that GW is going to be releasing another big plastic robot like the riptide but with a ton of missiles. THIS ISN'T TAU. Tau relied on man-sized units like stealth suits and crisis suits/broadsides were as big as they could get, standing only two to two and a half times the size of a man. Anything bigger than that was too impractical and the role better filled by tanks and aircraft. They didn't need gak like this before to bust titans with, the tigersharks retro-fitted with starship-sized railguns were good enough, and if I'm not mistaken they even canonically have super heavy grav tanks and stuff that have yet to materialize as models, even though they would probably look really cool (if the hammerhead is anything to go by, which is still my favorite Tau model) as well as being perfectly fluffy. It was good fluff, made sense, and also had the bonus of not being trope-y, with the giant super robot theme being exactly what you'd expect from something that's meant to be anime-inspired. Tau USED TO BE one of the only exceptions, but GW threw that out the window because apparently Gundams = $$$.
Only thing that's missing now is a new warlord-sized suit with a dock for a smaller suit. Maybe we can get a new unit of riptide-sized suits specifically designed to fight daemons that are all piloted by emotional female Tau. Or how about a battlesuit the size of a GALAXY. Give me a god-damned break, I'm so fething mad now between this and AoS. Just kill everything I like about your games why don't you, who gives a gak anymore?
Exactly what I was going to say. FFS, stop making more giant anime robots and give us proper tanks and aircraft.
Exalted! It looks like something from that trash Robotech. Guns everywhere and far too over the top. Blergh
Peregrine wrote: Exactly what I was going to say. FFS, stop making more giant anime robots and give us proper tanks and aircraft.
I should also say the remark about "emotional female" pilots wasn't supposed to be a dig at women, it was just supposed to be a reference to Evangelion that sounds a bit misogynistic in retrospect.
But yeah, I guess I should accept the fact I'm never going to get what I want at this point. We've seen GW's idea of what Tau aircraft should look like and if that's the best they got then I'd rather they just didn't, and FW is so busy with the Horus Heresy we're "lucky" we're even getting this monstrosity.
zedmeister wrote: Lovey stuff. White Scars, Taghmata red book and the Mastadon which reminds me of these:
Kind of wish the Mastadon was for the IG/SA/AM/cannon fodder dudes.
Really, really, really early on in Epic (maybe even Adeptus Titanicus days) GW started releasing tanks, the first 40k tanks since the LR and Rhino and all the IG ones were superheavies along the lines of the Capital Imperialis or Leviathan.
I'll see if I can find the references.
So I liked the idea that maybe in the HH era the IGSAAMCFD only used big building sized tanks with the marines in small swift ones.
The Tau were anime SF inspired, but until the riptide have been much more in the realm of "tactical armour" than "giant magical robot piloted by 12 year olds".
I really despised the riptide, partially because it's fugly, partially because it was a blantant OP cashgrab without dumb rules (should have been a walker) and partially because it is DIRECTLY COUNTER to previous Tau fluff. That last one I can get over if it's cool enough.
That Tau Knight is just disgusting. If it had been Riptide sized, with those proportions, but much less guns, it could be pretty awesome. Give it arm hard points that can fit slightly killier versions of battle suit weapons (twin linked weapon on each arm?) and a twin linked weapons array on the top that can be either Hammer Head gun, or maybe a skyray missile rack, and then make it a walker. Just my preference though.
It'll probably be a gargantuan creature with new Earth cast tech that allows it to channel the warp and summon daemons while simultaneously tea-bagging the Golden Throne.
maceria wrote: The Tau were anime SF inspired, but until the riptide have been much more in the realm of "tactical armour" than "giant magical robot piloted by 12 year olds".
I really despised the riptide, partially because it's fugly, partially because it was a blantant OP cashgrab without dumb rules (should have been a walker) and partially because it is DIRECTLY COUNTER to previous Tau fluff. That last one I can get over if it's cool enough.
That Tau Knight is just disgusting. If it had been Riptide sized, with those proportions, but much less guns, it could be pretty awesome. Give it arm hard points that can fit slightly killier versions of battle suit weapons (twin linked weapon on each arm?) and a twin linked weapons array on the top that can be either Hammer Head gun, or maybe a skyray missile rack, and then make it a walker. Just my preference though.
It'll probably be a gargantuan creature with new Earth cast tech that allows it to channel the warp and summon daemons while simultaneously tea-bagging the Golden Throne.
"Directly counter to previous Tau fluff"? Seriously?
If any army out there besides Tyranids is suitable for a constant flow of new units, it's the Tau. They adapt their technology and tactics to match their enemies. It's not beyond belief, especially given the whole reasoning behind Tau getting the whole Titan-Killer flyer for Taros, that they might have figured out the psychological and morale advantages for a giant suit(which could even be piloted by an AI based around the brainscans of a now deceased Fire Caste pilot, ala the Broadside character "Ob'Lotai 9-0" from the Farsight Enclaves codex) could be a boon for the next Expansion they embark upon.
Alternatively, I love both of those models and wish that FW had given them better rules. And I would have loved to see a superheavy counterpart to the Hammerhead, another design I really like.
There is of course nothing stopping them from doing that. The only problem in the evolving fluff (and if any races in 40k deserve evolving fluff it would be tau and nids) is how they transport it to go along with their theories of mobile warfare. A simple solution would be to create a variant of the manta capable of transporting the larger suits (riptide and up) like the thunderhawk transporter.
Alternatively, I love both of those models and wish that FW had given them better rules. And I would have loved to see a superheavy counterpart to the Hammerhead, another design I really like.
There is of course nothing stopping them from doing that. The only problem in the evolving fluff (and if any races in 40k deserve evolving fluff it would be tau and nids) is how they transport it to go along with their theories of mobile warfare. A simple solution would be to create a variant of the manta capable of transporting the larger suits (riptide and up) like the thunderhawk transporter.
Even simpler solution?
Tau built Drop Pod equivalent. It's not like they would not have examples of them at this point in time.
That was the first thing I thought of when I saw the Tau suit
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrookM wrote: Here's hoping it won't be as cheaply costed pointswise as the Knight.
I'd be fine with that, I mean... they could make it's cost on par with the Wraith Knight
Hey, I already made that joke! I do agree on the inspiration and it is a large reason why I like it. The tau FW stuff is very hit or miss for me personally. I love the variant crisis and broadside suits/tertas/rymr/turrets/orca/manta/yvahra but not a fan of the xv9/ralai/rvarna/baracuda/tigershark.
That Tau Knight is just disgusting. If it had been Riptide sized, with those proportions, but much less guns, it could be pretty awesome.
***snip***
It'll probably be a gargantuan creature with new Earth cast tech that allows it to channel the warp and summon daemons while simultaneously tea-bagging the Golden Throne.
Honestly, I would have preferred it to be the riptide variant size as well for cost and storage reasons but I guess the Rvarna fills the "big armored gun" role and the Yvahra the "speedy lighter" role with the standard plastic riptide a compromise in between. As for that last part, Gw is obviously saving that for Eldar: Craftworlds 2k16 edition.
the warlord in close combat 
God Machines of Mankind indeed!
even though I will never own it...
). Oh the jobs you take right out of college before you know what you're really worth 
