Yeah, Ork Boyz are badass compared to all our melee units, except Genestealers.

As for pointless wishlisting - I hope for Swarmlord to get a resurrect ability similar to Bobby G and Celestine. After all he's supposed to always be resurrected by the Great Devourer.

And I hope for some ability similar to Khorne Daemonkin had in Bloodtithe.

And I hope for key changes that opens up tactics, like the ability to take several units in our pods (like other factions can), viable Tyranid Primes with Wings, more useful auras and tons of other buffs.

And the eternal wish - close combat biomorph options for Raveners! Their inexplicable absence is on the verge of collapse into itself and form a black hole that will swallow 40K.

 Tsol wrote:


Lictors: I would like the lictors to have 4 attacks base. Otherwise pretty good.

I generally like your ideas, but the lictor seems about right to me. An extra attack would be cool but with flesh hooks they already get 5 S6 attacks at WS2+. If you strip a lictor back to a warrior with rending claws and flesh hooks, and then boosted their strength, gave them deepstrike, faster movement, +2 save in cover, -1 to hit and traded a point of armour save for an extra wound, would the points they cost be inappropriate? I think they're just right.

The Deathleaper is what I'd buff instead. Its special sneak attack rule is fluffy but seems impractical in reality. Probably not worth the cost of two lictors

I want lictors to have a BS buff, it’s near impossible to do anything with the fleshooks. Also it’d be nice if they dropped intstinctive bevhaviour as they’re supposed to be solitary creatures

How’s a maximised Warrior unit jumping out a Tcyte look? Shame they can’t be joined by a Prime, but we can’t all be Noise Marines. I’m thinking them, another Tcyte with Dakkagaunts, a Trygon with Raveners? I’d like to bring in my Pyrovores, too, now they’re ok. But they don’t seem as useful as the range on devourers.

 lindsay40k wrote:
How’s a maximised Warrior unit jumping out a Tcyte look? Shame they can’t be joined by a Prime, but we can’t all be Noise Marines. I’m thinking them, another Tcyte with Dakkagaunts, a Trygon with Raveners? I’d like to bring in my Pyrovores, too, now they’re ok. But they don’t seem as useful as the range on devourers.

Dunno yet but I'm looking forward to trying it out. I want a Warrior strike to be good.

Seems like you'd want tbe gaunts with the Trygon, as you can only get 20 in the Tcyte. :(

Ah yes, and I see that the Raveners can make their own way to the deep insertion point. Pyrovores it is in the second Pod

 Lance845 wrote:

 TonyH122 wrote:

Thanks for the follow up! Just one question. Being new to Nids, and reading around, I haven't seen anyone else impressed by warriors. How are you running them?

Ive seen almost nothing but glowing reviews for warriors (and by extension shrikes).

Personally I kit out warriors with scytal, deathspitters, and a biocannon. Broods of 3-6.

Shrikes I go Scytal, Boneswords, flesh hooks, and adrenal glands.

Warriors are for synapse in mid/backfield with fire support.

Shrikes are melee surgical strike units and front line synapse to support fast melee broods (Genestealers/hormagaunts). Get in and get chopping.

I mostly agree here. I could see the argument that Warriors are bad because they seem to be somewhat expenseive for such a 'fragile unit' but if your enemy is shooting your warriors either you built your army wrong or you're about to win. What I mean by this is, either your warriors are about to charge or kill soemthing and your opponet has decided to shoot them to try and hamper the coming storm or you built your list poorly. Tyrands win by overwhelming your opponet with threats. Just like Guard you should have a strong mix of units on the table. Put down 90 gaunts with two or three warrior squads and have them push the table. They will shoot your guants cause those are the more immediate threat. They won't bother shooting your wawrriors because of those three carnifexes pushing on their flank. They may not shoot your carnifexes because your 6 biovores are launching mortal wounds across the table and if they miss are spaming spore mines. And they may not shoot the biovores because of those the Terivigon and Tyranofex blobbed in with your gaunts. At least, thats how I play my Nids.
Warriors I use as support for my guants, I will either give them boneswords and talons or I will load them up with devourers, in most cases I give them fleshhooks as well (I like having pistols). They just run/follow my broods forward or sit on an objective if I build them for range support.

Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

Id like our drop pod to allow a number of models instead of a single unit so it can be used to transport characters and support.

Looks like they're adding more options to the carnifexes and adding specific loadouts as separate datasheets like the Screamer Killer.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/WDPreview-Oct27-Spread2yq.jpg

Can someone read the profile on the screamer killer?

I see a T7 and the WS and BS look like different numbers, so probably WS is 3+.

 Overread wrote:
I can't help but feel that saying you can use what you want is a kind of cop-out when you consider base to base and such is a key mechanic

Kind of thing that maybe has to be raised higher than the phone trollz?

It's because GW used various base sizes and shapes for the same critters over the eyars and they are all legal.

My original Biovores came on square bases.
I rebased them to 40mm rounds when those became a thing.

How many Space Marine players would riot if you had to rebase hundreds of Space Marines from 25mm to 32mm ?

It's not practical to expect people to rebase, and there are pros and cons to various base sizes. The general rule is to use what looks best.

 Zimko wrote:
Looks like they're adding more options to the carnifexes and adding specific loadouts as separate datasheets like the Screamer Killer.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/WDPreview-Oct27-Spread2yq.jpg

Oh boy, this could prove a slight nightmare. All of the different carnifex components gets a rule assosiated with it again. While that is AWSOME for somebody who is assembling a new Carnifex, I find it particuraly bad for me personally. I have 4 carnifex torsoes that I am salvaging from my 5th edition army, almost painted up. I have used a lot of heads in conversions of other models back when we did not have Trygons and Tyranofexes.

I am hopefull for the new codex but I hope I don't need to much conversion. :-)

On the picture it still says 6 powerpoints, and the wound and armour seems the same. I was hoping for a small point reduction.

 Zimko wrote:
Looks like they're adding more options to the carnifexes and adding specific loadouts as separate datasheets like the Screamer Killer.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/WDPreview-Oct27-Spread2yq.jpg

Sounds amazing. Can anyone get a read on that stat line?

The resolution is not bigger until somebody gets another source.

 Niiai wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
Looks like they're adding more options to the carnifexes and adding specific loadouts as separate datasheets like the Screamer Killer.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/WDPreview-Oct27-Spread2yq.jpg

Oh boy, this could prove a slight nightmare. All of the different carnifex components gets a rule assosiated with it again. While that is AWSOME for somebody who is assembling a new Carnifex, I find it particuraly bad for me personally. I have 4 carnifex torsoes that I am salvaging from my 5th edition army, almost painted up. I have used a lot of heads in conversions of other models back when we did not have Trygons and Tyranofexes.

I am hopefull for the new codex but I hope I don't need to much conversion. :-)

On the picture it still says 6 powerpoints, and the wound and armour seems the same. I was hoping for a small point reduction.

Hah! I got 3 of these babies fully magnetized

Oh man, the carnifex kit is my favoret kit ever I think. Just look at that sweetness. :-)

Does this mean we can expect something similar for all those options in the Genestealer kit?

God I hope not. Or rather I hope we do, and then I magicaly hope my tyranids are asembeled legal and in a way I get rules I am satesfied with.

Tsol wrote: Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

Thats another way of saying they're not particular good at anything. Walking slowly towards the enemy without any great damage output doesn't make a great unit. 8th edition is all about doing as much damage first and second turn and warriors suck at that.

Snake Tortoise wrote:I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

That's because a lot of casual tyranid players that are playing against other casual armies, are capable of actually making an armylist that works with different tyranid threats. At that game the warriors are a good deal but even then other tyranid units are better in a particular role. Against any semi-competitive enemy army it doesn't work because the tyranid units simply come in at manageable chucks and get blown to pieces. Warriors that walk 2/3 turns before the can actually do anything (useful) suck at that competitive game.

shogun wrote:

Tsol wrote: Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

Thats another way of saying they're not particular good at anything. Walking slowly towards the enemy without any great damage output doesn't make a great unit. 8th edition is all about doing as much damage first and second turn and warriors suck at that.

Snake Tortoise wrote:I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

That's because a lot of casual tyranid players that are playing against other casual armies, are capable of actually making an armylist that works with different tyranid threats. At that game the warriors are a good deal but even then other tyranid units are better in a particular role. Against any semi-competitive enemy army it doesn't work because the tyranid units simply come in at manageable chucks and get blown to pieces. Warriors that walk 2/3 turns before the can actually do anything (useful) suck at that competitive game.

Luckily this is getting slowly less and less true. With every codex the game is becoming more centered on attrition and less on alpha strikes. It was just the first codex which introduced Robby and made the "shoot everything away turn 1" the standard. With conscripts nerf, scions nerf and hopefully an RG nerf in the Chapter approved, the game will become more stable. All those -1 to hit going around are also a great help.

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

I think Tyranid Warriors are comparable to Ork Nobz. They are somewhat more durable, have more dakka, but a bit less choppa. And they are like 3 times more expensive money-wise. Tyranid Warriors really ought to have S 5, though.

 Zimko wrote:
Looks like they're adding more options to the carnifexes and adding specific loadouts as separate datasheets like the Screamer Killer.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/WDPreview-Oct27-Spread2yq.jpg

Yowza! That makes me happy. I have always loved me some Screamer Killas

I'm probably seeing things, but if you suppose that the W value of the screamer killer is 8 and the Ld is 6, it seems to me that the S value is more similar to a 8 than to a 6.

Spoletta wrote:
I'm probably seeing things, but if you suppose that the W value of the screamer killer is 8 and the Ld is 6, it seems to me that the S value is more similar to a 8 than to a 6.

Because of the low resolution and the fact that the picture is tilted a bit it could just be the pixels not lighning up properly. A S8 carnifex would do much better vs all these horid T7 things they keep running into. Make them better or make the cheaper. Let my carnifexes go. And I will part red of of my enemies blood.

Spoletta wrote:
Luckily this is getting slowly less and less true. With every codex the game is becoming more centered on attrition and less on alpha strikes. It was just the first codex which introduced Robby and made the "shoot everything away turn 1" the standard. With conscripts nerf, scions nerf and hopefully an RG nerf in the Chapter approved, the game will become more stable. All those -1 to hit going around are also a great help.

Uh, I think you're pretty wrong here. AM has pretty firmly centered the game around large, cheap screening tarpits with overwhelming alpha strike capability (Deep striking/outflanking/long range firepower) and/or smite spam. Basically every one of the top lists at SoCal open operated off this style of play except the Deathstar style bash-bros with gunzerker knight.

Smite spam armies are the closest thing to "attrition" armies, and they generally revolve around using tarpits to protect and secure targets for smite.

The only outlier is Ynnari aeldar, who abuse the soulburst ability to make out-of-sequence actions that allow them to get multiple shots/charges out of each unit. Generally done through alpha striking.

The basic rules of 40k mean we aren't likely to ever deviate too far from this style of play, there's far too much benefit from alpha striking. Whether it's from null deployment style play, to min drop gunline heavy, the whole point is to do maximum damage before your opponent can do any back. Which is why 120 conscripts surrounding 9 primaris psykers works. You can't possibly do enough damage to the list without it being able to hit you at full capacity. The list isn't designed to grind you into paste slowly, it's just useless crap keeping the smite spam alive so they can obliterate anything that they can get to, supported by deep striking heavy hitters and super efficient high output tanks. It basically makes it impossible for them to be alpha struck effectively, but guarantees they will do it to you.

Bring back 5th edition mawlocks. Now lets see how clumbed together they like to stand. :-)

That's what i'm saying. Those lists depend heavily on the screening units. Now that best one has been solidly nerfed (in particular for soups), those lists have lost some efficacy.

 Tsol wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 TonyH122 wrote:

Thanks for the follow up! Just one question. Being new to Nids, and reading around, I haven't seen anyone else impressed by warriors. How are you running them?

Ive seen almost nothing but glowing reviews for warriors (and by extension shrikes).

Personally I kit out warriors with scytal, deathspitters, and a biocannon. Broods of 3-6.

Shrikes I go Scytal, Boneswords, flesh hooks, and adrenal glands.

Warriors are for synapse in mid/backfield with fire support.

Shrikes are melee surgical strike units and front line synapse to support fast melee broods (Genestealers/hormagaunts). Get in and get chopping.

I mostly agree here. I could see the argument that Warriors are bad because they seem to be somewhat expenseive for such a 'fragile unit' but if your enemy is shooting your warriors either you built your army wrong or you're about to win. What I mean by this is, either your warriors are about to charge or kill soemthing and your opponet has decided to shoot them to try and hamper the coming storm or you built your list poorly. Tyrands win by overwhelming your opponet with threats. Just like Guard you should have a strong mix of units on the table. Put down 90 gaunts with two or three warrior squads and have them push the table. They will shoot your guants cause those are the more immediate threat. They won't bother shooting your wawrriors because of those three carnifexes pushing on their flank. They may not shoot your carnifexes because your 6 biovores are launching mortal wounds across the table and if they miss are spaming spore mines. And they may not shoot the biovores because of those the Terivigon and Tyranofex blobbed in with your gaunts. At least, thats how I play my Nids.
Warriors I use as support for my guants, I will either give them boneswords and talons or I will load them up with devourers, in most cases I give them fleshhooks as well (I like having pistols). They just run/follow my broods forward or sit on an objective if I build them for range support.

Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

Whatever they decide to target out of that list will die too easily for its points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoletta wrote:
That's what i'm saying. Those lists depend heavily on the screening units. Now that best one has been solidly nerfed (in particular for soups), those lists have lost some efficacy.

Not really nerfed at the competitive level. Valhallans can still screen soup lists.

What is a soup list?

 Niiai wrote:
What is a soup list?

A mish mash of a bunch of armies. Guard with a space marine chapter and knight for some imperial soup.

Cool term.

Can this be aplied to everything, or is it mostly imperials that share this keyword?

Everything.

Aeldari Soup is Eldar, DE, Harlequins
Chaos Soup is all the Chaos
Tyranids, GSC, IG can be also

Tho SM has the LARGEST soup, where Eldar-kin, CSM/Daemon, and Nids have rules written into them synergies with each other and it is know to be play together (aka GSC rule and Ynnari), Imperial doesnt have that synergy and are more-so seen as Sm, IG, SOB as separate Factions when really they are 1 faction with many Sub-factions.

Most players get but hurt about Imperial Soup b.c their is an infinite amount of more options than Nids/GSC/Ig and Aeldari soup.

A good example of a Aeldari Soup that EVERYONE HATED was when 6th 1st came out and the Eldar book was new, BUT the DE book was still a 5th edition codex.
You could have 10 Khymeras, a Beastmaster, The Baron, a Farseer and a Shadowseer in 1 unit for a 4++, Hit and Run, FnP, cant be target for shooting outside of 2d6, melee monster, moving 12" a turn, ignore terrain.

It was the 1st Deathstar of 6th, you can look up Beast pack Deathstar for more info on google.

But over all soup sitn bad, its when you can have imbalance characters buffing armies outside of their codes that is bad, like Guilliman, and then having another character like St. Celestine in a IG army, thats what players dont like.

EDIT: Nevermind, Amishprn86 got in ahead of me

 Niiai wrote:
Cool term.

Can this be aplied to everything, or is it mostly imperials that share this keyword?

Anyone. Tyranid soup is nids gsc and ig.

Chaos soup etc etc...


Imperium of just has the easiest time of it with the best results.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SCREAMER KILLERS

Picked up another 10 gargoyles to work on. I wanted to know what model represents the tyranid prime model? It appears that the warrior fits the bill, am I correct?

 luke1705 wrote:
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SCREAMER KILLERS

Who cares, walking 6 inch and dying with new cool options isn't helpful.

Tarval wrote:
Picked up another 10 gargoyles to work on. I wanted to know what model represents the tyranid prime model? It appears that the warrior fits the bill, am I correct?

The Warrior Kit atm has the Bits to make the Warriors Prime, since you are new to Tyranids, back in the day Warriors were HQ's and as time went by they kept a better one as HQ and then made them troops also, hence why they are the same kit.

In the future i'm sure they will be different kits.

Added: If you buy a Warrior box and you really like warriors, even tho you are going to "miss" a warrior from the unit if you make one Into a Prime, give each warriors a Bio-range Weapon (The heavy looking 2) and just buy another Box of 3, that way you have 3 basic ones and 2 with special weapons. Of make 3 different primes lol, w/e floats you boat, just an idea for you.

shogun wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SCREAMER KILLERS

Who cares, walking 6 inch and dying with new cool options isn't helpful.

Kinda agree, honestly cant tell till we see the Fleets, if you can have -2 to hit in total, might be survivable, or if we can give out more double movements.

We dont know how expensive (cheap) screamer killers will be. But it looks really promising. If we getvsome good delivery methods or whatever they could be amazing. Gotta wait to see.

I'm waiting to know if they received some offensive buffs. I'm fine with walking a cfex to the other side, as long as it breaks what it touches.

shogun wrote:

Tsol wrote: Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

Thats another way of saying they're not particular good at anything. Walking slowly towards the enemy without any great damage output doesn't make a great unit. 8th edition is all about doing as much damage first and second turn and warriors suck at that.

Snake Tortoise wrote:I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

That's because a lot of casual tyranid players that are playing against other casual armies, are capable of actually making an armylist that works with different tyranid threats. At that game the warriors are a good deal but even then other tyranid units are better in a particular role. Against any semi-competitive enemy army it doesn't work because the tyranid units simply come in at manageable chucks and get blown to pieces. Warriors that walk 2/3 turns before the can actually do anything (useful) suck at that competitive game.

I will say not quite true, but I understand your reasoning. Warriors are excellent at close combat if you kit them for it. To me saying that Warriors are not good at anything is like saying a Space Marine veteran squad is not good at anything: until you gear it. They can be kitted out to be close range support, long range support anti anti and so forth. I am not exaggerating when I say they can be kittted out to handle any target. Yes, the base squad is in and of itself not great but you can tool it to do anything you want or need. In all my games Warriors have performed well, better than any other units other than my guants. But I fully admit, I like warrriors because I can take them in so many ways. I am not a static list builder. I have never played the same list twice and probably never will, so I love unit which I can build and run differently; warriors and being one of my favorites.

Warriors just dont do enough and are a threat only b.c they have synapse, so they tend to die a bit quickly, even they dont do enough damage as is to me they are not worth it at all.

IF they all could gain Strangle or Venom cannons then i would take them, b.c all 3 could get in range a turn earlier and actually do damage, its 15pts more total for 3man unit to gain dbl range and str of their guns, thats pretty good to me.

It's not a ringing endorsement of a unit to say that gaunts are outperforming them.

 Tsol wrote:

shogun wrote:

Tsol wrote: Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

Thats another way of saying they're not particular good at anything. Walking slowly towards the enemy without any great damage output doesn't make a great unit. 8th edition is all about doing as much damage first and second turn and warriors suck at that.

Snake Tortoise wrote:I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

That's because a lot of casual tyranid players that are playing against other casual armies, are capable of actually making an armylist that works with different tyranid threats. At that game the warriors are a good deal but even then other tyranid units are better in a particular role. Against any semi-competitive enemy army it doesn't work because the tyranid units simply come in at manageable chucks and get blown to pieces. Warriors that walk 2/3 turns before the can actually do anything (useful) suck at that competitive game.

I will say not quite true, but I understand your reasoning. Warriors are excellent at close combat if you kit them for it. To me saying that Warriors are not good at anything is like saying a Space Marine veteran squad is not good at anything: until you gear it. They can be kitted out to be close range support, long range support anti anti and so forth. I am not exaggerating when I say they can be kittted out to handle any target. Yes, the base squad is in and of itself not great but you can tool it to do anything you want or need. In all my games Warriors have performed well, better than any other units other than my guants. But I fully admit, I like warrriors because I can take them in so many ways. I am not a static list builder. I have never played the same list twice and probably never will, so I love unit which I can build and run differently; warriors and being one of my favorites.

You're only making the case that warriors can be kitted out differently but not that they're actually good at what the do. Being very good in close combat doesn't help if you cannot reach the enemy unit before turn 3. Deathspitters with 18 inch range are also not really game changers. The got toughness 4 and a low armor save, so an carnifex compared to the same amount of points warriors is a better deal with toughness 6 and a 3+ save. I have had this discussion before on this topic and in the end I asked the pro-warrior people to provide an army list in which the 'excel' so that I could prove that other tyranid units are actually better suited for the job. Never got that armylist.

Warriors are a nice complement to all lists featuring a lot of gaunts. I tried a couple of things, but in the end the warriors are the ones better suited for the job.

shogun wrote:
Being very good in close combat doesn't help if you cannot reach the enemy unit before turn 3.

With adrenal glands and a 1-turn advance they will reliably charge into the enemys deployment zone in their second turn.

shogun wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SCREAMER KILLERS

Who cares, walking 6 inch and dying with new cool options isn't helpful.

7 inches (plus Advance if melee) but I agree. Spore Cysts will help (-1 to be hit by ranged attacks) it to survive into turn 2. I will try hard to enjoy the new Carnifex upgrade options when dreadnoughts with Blizzard Shield tapdances on its reeking carcass.

Spoletta wrote:Warriors are a nice complement to all lists featuring a lot of gaunts. I tried a couple of things, but in the end the warriors are the ones better suited for the job.

What job? Please give me an armylist and I can show you a better way to spend points.

pismakron wrote:

shogun wrote:
Being very good in close combat doesn't help if you cannot reach the enemy unit before turn 3.

With adrenal glands and a 1-turn advance they will reliably charge into the enemys deployment zone in their second turn.

This is just wishful thinking. Only if your opponent is really stupid or simply doesn't care if you do (bubblewrap) and then you got bigger problems.

It really all depends on the book. We’ll see what happens, but if we get infiltrate like Alpha legion.....3 CP I would gladly pay to infiltrate my Carnifexes. And with Alpha legion, they move on the first turn too. It would be hard to hate on a carnifex that could be 2.1” away from an enemy on turn 1. If such a thing were to happen.

In any case, we’ll find out soon what the Hive fleets do, and as someone gets the book with access to stratagems and psychic powers, I think we’ll all be happier with the new options we have.

 Lance845 wrote:
We dont know how expensive (cheap) screamer killers will be. But it looks really promising. If we getvsome good delivery methods or whatever they could be amazing. Gotta wait to see.

The picture in the preview says power level 6, so it will probably be between 110 and 120-ish points give or take. One thing I did notice while squinting for info is that the Screamer Killer's "Bio-Plasmic Scream" is Assault D6 instead of the regular Bio Plasma's Assault D3, so it might be that the fixed template Carnifexes will get a bonus over the adaptable versions.

I just hope they rebox them with the new oval bases they have been displayed on since the Shield of Baal campaign. They look so much better than on the comparatively dinky 60mm bases.

shogun wrote:

Spoletta wrote:Warriors are a nice complement to all lists featuring a lot of gaunts. I tried a couple of things, but in the end the warriors are the ones better suited for the job.

What job? Please give me an armylist and I can show you a better way to spend points.

pismakron wrote:

shogun wrote:
Being very good in close combat doesn't help if you cannot reach the enemy unit before turn 3.

With adrenal glands and a 1-turn advance they will reliably charge into the enemys deployment zone in their second turn.

This is just wishful thinking. Only if your opponent is really stupid or simply doesn't care if you do (bubblewrap) and then you got bigger problems.

Literally anything with 90 between hormagaunts and termagants. The gants are a more pressing targets, so the warriors make contact without problems while providing synapse. And no, we are not talking about AAA lists, we are talking about mid tier gaming, Tyranids don't have good builds for top tier except for some unfun spams and heavy AM support, so why bother with top tier?

shogun wrote:

pismakron wrote:

shogun wrote:
Being very good in close combat doesn't help if you cannot reach the enemy unit before turn 3.

With adrenal glands and a 1-turn advance they will reliably charge into the enemys deployment zone in their second turn.

This is just wishful thinking. Only if your opponent is really stupid or simply doesn't care if you do (bubblewrap) and then you got bigger problems.

It is not wishful thinking at all. My footslogging boyz pretty much always connect on the second turn, and Tyranid Warriors with glands are only very marginally slower.

But it requires that you play a mission where at least some objectives can be scored every turn, and even then Hammer and Anvil or Vanguard strike deployments can be tough (ie require a good advance or charge roll)

As for Tyranid Warriors they are not exactly great, and they really ought to be S5. But you can definitely charge with them on your second turn.

If the screamer killer sheet is to be believed and used as an indicator of anything going on, we could be seeing a bit of stat line adjustments not just point adjustments in the codex.

Instead of almost exclusively midling statlines on all our troops and the bulk of our bigger bugs maybe those organism bred to do a job will actually have stats to reflect their bred-for-a-purpose capabilities.

3+ becomes 2+ when stationary exocrines? (probably not. but then I would have never hopped a carnifex would get +1 to hit either).

Exocrines are fine. They’re one of the few good things we have currently, even if maybe they’re a little expensive for what they do.

But I think you’re right that units will start to be more diverse in their stat lines and have the ability to do the job they’re intended to. And really, that’s all most of us want.

 luke1705 wrote:
Exocrines are fine. They’re one of the few good things we have currently, even if maybe they’re a little expensive for what they do.

But I think you’re right that units will start to be more diverse in their stat lines and have the ability to do the job they’re intended to. And really, that’s all most of us want.

Agree, exocrines are fine. My exocrine kitbash is my favorite model so I tend to think of exocrines first when I need an example.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Questions,

Do we want to start a new tactics thread when the codex releases or keep this one going?

Do we want to start that thread when the community articles start to show up or wait for the actual codex release?

Does anyone else want to start it/keep the first post updated (if not I will: Note: I haven't received much from any one to populate the first post with)?

Personally I think we should start a new one when the community articles show up. I don't have a preference for who maintains the first post me or anyone else as long as they are generally active and will get the relative public information on there.

I think starting fresh would be a good plan. That way anybody new can get up to speed with the current game, without wading through tons of pages. If my new meds work as advertised, I might be able to get some games in, and actually add some content.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the review of units is real useful, and if the new 'dex delivers, maybe a seperate set of Fleet tactic, and how to use them. So if Fleet Medusa gets a "super evolution" stat, what units use it best? what sort of set up, and move work best? for example...

I think starting a new thread could be quite good. We 10 of the 72 pages or probably discussing warriors.

If the stats do not change I think several of the mathammer breakdows could probably be in the first post, or 2. post.

 Niiai wrote:
What is a soup list?

It's when someone creates the apparant heresy of using the 'Imperium', 'Chaos', or 'Alderi' keywords to build their detatchments instead of the specific subfaction keywords. For example, adding gulliman in an AdMech list or Morttarian in a Thousand Sons list

Reposts from news and rumors.

Davor wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Saw this on The Tyranid Hive from poster Seeg.

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/post/921859

not sure if this is allowed. but i guess since im just a fresh ripper either nobody will care or i'll just get removed.
so here goes nothing.

our hive tyrant is now t7, 12W. wings will have deepstrike. has a base 4++. down one attack. didnt manage to see the pointage or the wargear options. no idea if monstrous rending claws are still a thing.

carnifex are t7 as well. slight cost reduction. didnt get to see anything else.

maleceptors deal 3 mortal wounds if we roll a 6 on that weird aoe ability. it knows 2 spells and can cast and deny 2 spells. also t7. also 4++

thats all i managed to see

Read more: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/53797/new-codex-rules-preview?page=7#ixzz4wrsmEK00

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Followed by,

"i roughly remember 2 more things
1 is a stratagem tied to a fleet whose name i cant remember.
start of psychic phase, choose one enemy psyker (cant remember if there's a range or if its from one of our own psykers). Targeted enemy psyker uses only 1 dice to roll his spells
and a warlord trait: if an enemy psyker within x inches (cant remember the range) fails his cast he suffers d3 mortal wounds. i'm sure i missed something else here. my memory sucks ass."

Read more: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/53797/new-codex-rules-preview?page=7#ixzz4ws1A8o00

That would be +2 wounds +1 toughness +1 invul save and the ability to deepstrike for hive tyrants. That makes their melee threat much better and the bonus to invul and wounds is definitely a boost to surviveability.

And then, unless the Swarmlord is getting a complete redo means he should be at least 14 wounds with a 3+ invul in melee.

Normally I wouldn't post a blatant plug for a painting and modeling thread, but as it was requested earlier when I mentioned I was making an army out of classic Tyranid Warriors, I'm putting up a link here and in my sig.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598

And just because it was asked:

Tarval wrote:
I wanted to know what model represents the tyranid prime model? It appears that the warrior fits the bill, am I correct?

I did some custom Primes based on a conversion a friend of mine did. I think they look a little more suitably impressive than the Warrior-with-a-fancy-head model GW provides. The stat increase of the primes is quite good, and since I'm using the older, taller models anyways I thought these would be more appropriate. Also, they're a nice in-between from the classic Warriors to a Hive Tyrant.

Those are really cool.
They remind me of those old rogue trader Warriors.
Only yours are a lot cooler.

Some info from the rumor thread.

Psychic scream, WC5, Targets nearest enemy within 18" does d3 mortal wounds. if the target is a psyker, also roll 2d6. if the value is higher than the enemy psyker's leadership, the enemy psyker loses 1 spell at random

paroxysm WC5, target enemy unit within 12" of the psyker fights last. (there's a whole big ass block of text here talking about exceptions and what not)

*cant remember the name* target unit within 36" of the psyker essentially gains synapse

here's a bunch of random (please do not swear)

old one is is now 9 wounds. 200 pts. hits of 6 generate one additional attack. can be equipped with a scything talons relic that +1s ap-3, 3dmg, +1 attack. uses behemoth warlord trait
swarmlord is t7, 12w, 4++. his blade parry makes it 3++. no other notable change i think. uses leviathan warlord trait


hivefleet gorgon warlord trait: enemy units within 3" of the warlord at the end of the turn take 1 mortal wound each on a 4plus
hivefleet behemoth warlord trait: on 6's to wound he deals an additional damage
hivefleet leviathan warlord trait: after deployment but before start of game, redeploy your warlord

tyrannocyte is now 100 pts. 5pts for each deathspitter.

hivefleet kronos stratagem: 2cp, when an enemy psyker attempts to cast a spell, make it use only 1 dice to roll
hivefleet behemoth stratagem: 2cp, choose on unit. roll a d6 for each charging model. for each 6 deal 1 mortal wound to the enemy unit it charged. for monsters its on a roll of 2+

2cp stratagem: choose one unit. at the end of the shooting phase it shoots again. (cannot target monsters)

maleceptors total pointage including wargear is 172. T7, 12W

tyranofex is 185 pts.
rupture cannon is 47 or 49.
rupture cannon profile is heavy 3, s10 ap-3 d6 damage. thats all. no more funky "if it hits both..blablabla"

exocrine with all wargear is 210 or something like that. minor points decrease
venomthropes and zoans are still fielded as units of 3
venomthropes when in grp of 3 also affect monsters. when in a grp of 6, the aura becomes 6".
the carnifex biomorpth that gives -1 to hit to enemy shooters does not stack with venomthrope. said biomorph is 10 pts.

genestealers remain the same. but have an option of getting +1 armour but they lose swift and deadly. (wtf GW)

there is a relic for any character that gives either +1S, +1A or +1T during fight phase. roll dice to see which buff
haruspex is something around 220 pts with wargear.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743288.page#9672155

New Tactics thread. I compiled all the rumors so far there since the announcement post from the community site gave credence to the source with the hive flees names (Including one we have never heard of before).

It will get updated with the factual information from the community site as we get it and any other rumors until we get the book. At which point it will become more of a tactics compilation and unit review.

 Insectum7 wrote:

I did some custom Primes based on a conversion a friend of mine did. I think they look a little more suitably impressive than the Warrior-with-a-fancy-head model GW provides. The stat increase of the primes is quite good, and since I'm using the older, taller models anyways I thought these would be more appropriate. Also, they're a nice in-between from the classic Warriors to a Hive Tyrant.

Sweet conversions.

What're the legs from?

Old 3E Carnifex?

 Jin wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

I did some custom Primes based on a conversion a friend of mine did. I think they look a little more suitably impressive than the Warrior-with-a-fancy-head model GW provides. The stat increase of the primes is quite good, and since I'm using the older, taller models anyways I thought these would be more appropriate. Also, they're a nice in-between from the classic Warriors to a Hive Tyrant.

Sweet conversions.

What're the legs from?

Old 3E Carnifex?

Yup, those are the ones! The cconversion was not my idea though, I copied it from a friend.

shogun wrote:

 Tsol wrote:

shogun wrote:

Tsol wrote: Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

Thats another way of saying they're not particular good at anything. Walking slowly towards the enemy without any great damage output doesn't make a great unit. 8th edition is all about doing as much damage first and second turn and warriors suck at that.

Snake Tortoise wrote:I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

That's because a lot of casual tyranid players that are playing against other casual armies, are capable of actually making an armylist that works with different tyranid threats. At that game the warriors are a good deal but even then other tyranid units are better in a particular role. Against any semi-competitive enemy army it doesn't work because the tyranid units simply come in at manageable chucks and get blown to pieces. Warriors that walk 2/3 turns before the can actually do anything (useful) suck at that competitive game.

I will say not quite true, but I understand your reasoning. Warriors are excellent at close combat if you kit them for it. To me saying that Warriors are not good at anything is like saying a Space Marine veteran squad is not good at anything: until you gear it. They can be kitted out to be close range support, long range support anti anti and so forth. I am not exaggerating when I say they can be kittted out to handle any target. Yes, the base squad is in and of itself not great but you can tool it to do anything you want or need. In all my games Warriors have performed well, better than any other units other than my guants. But I fully admit, I like warrriors because I can take them in so many ways. I am not a static list builder. I have never played the same list twice and probably never will, so I love unit which I can build and run differently; warriors and being one of my favorites.

You're only making the case that warriors can be kitted out differently but not that they're actually good at what the do. Being very good in close combat doesn't help if you cannot reach the enemy unit before turn 3. Deathspitters with 18 inch range are also not really game changers. The got toughness 4 and a low armor save, so an carnifex compared to the same amount of points warriors is a better deal with toughness 6 and a 3+ save. I have had this discussion before on this topic and in the end I asked the pro-warrior people to provide an army list in which the 'excel' so that I could prove that other tyranid units are actually better suited for the job. Never got that armylist.

I'm not sure what to tell you. I've only played about 10 games of Tyranids in 8th but I've played closer to 100 of 8th with my other armies. I think you may just be using tunnel vision? I don't know how to repond to units which can by used to fill any tactical role you need is bad because its bad? I'll try to make my view on them more clear as I don't think I am conveying it to you properly from your reponses. The base unit in and of itself is medicore. Its not bad, not great. Its fearless and competant in melee and with just a slight point bump of about 4pts per model can be made into decent assualt troops who are still good at melee. They can then be further upgrade to have a dedicated roll of support, melee, range or even HQ guards. Their strongest value in my opinion is they accent other units wonderfully by granting synapse and being able to field them in any roll you need.

Its like a gaunt, a single squad of 10 gaunts in and of itself it not very useful, but when you take 20 more and give them synapse, they become very useful. Warriors are the same, they should be viewed as a cog in your Tyranid Machine, not the machine itself. I hope that makes sense.

pismakron wrote:

shogun wrote:

pismakron wrote:

shogun wrote:
Being very good in close combat doesn't help if you cannot reach the enemy unit before turn 3.

With adrenal glands and a 1-turn advance they will reliably charge into the enemys deployment zone in their second turn.

This is just wishful thinking. Only if your opponent is really stupid or simply doesn't care if you do (bubblewrap) and then you got bigger problems.

It is not wishful thinking at all. My footslogging boyz pretty much always connect on the second turn, and Tyranid Warriors with glands are only very marginally slower.

But it requires that you play a mission where at least some objectives can be scored every turn, and even then Hammer and Anvil or Vanguard strike deployments can be tough (ie require a good advance or charge roll)

As for Tyranid Warriors they are not exactly great, and they really ought to be S5. But you can definitely charge with them on your second turn.

My point still stands, you either play dumb opponents or the don't care that you charge for good reasons. With 24 inch range between two deploying forces the warriors move (6 inch) advance (5 inch with glands), move second turn (6 inch) and charge (8 inch with glands) = 25 inch. If your opponent didn't move his units back a bit when the warriors move in their direction the deserve to die.

Tsol wrote: I'm not sure what to tell you. I've only played about 10 games of Tyranids in 8th but I've played closer to 100 of 8th with my other armies.

Would like to see your armylist. Using a bad unit to kill even worse units doesn't make them good.

Tsol wrote:I think you may just be using tunnel vision? I don't know how to repond to units which can by used to fill any tactical role you need is bad because its bad? I'll try to make my view on them more clear as I don't think I am conveying it to you properly from your reponses. The base unit in and of itself is medicore. Its not bad, not great. Its fearless and competant in melee and with just a slight point bump of about 4pts per model can be made into decent assualt troops who are still good at melee. They can then be further upgrade to have a dedicated roll of support, melee, range or even HQ guards. Their strongest value in my opinion is they accent other units wonderfully by granting synapse and being able to field them in any roll you need.

Melee: genestealers are better,
Synapse: Let the broodlords and malanthrope handle that,
Shooting: Let the devourer gaunts handle that.
Speed: to slow. Walking towards the enemy (gun) line didn't work in 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and also not in 8th edition.

Tsol wrote: Its like a gaunt, a single squad of 10 gaunts in and of itself it not very useful, but when you take 20 more and give them synapse, they become very useful. Warriors are the same, they should be viewed as a cog in your Tyranid Machine, not the machine itself. I hope that makes sense.

I do understand that principle but comparing them with 10 or 20 gaunts is silly because you have to look at the complete picture and what kind of rol the unit fulfils. I could have multiple 10 gaunts units if I want the minimum troop choice bubble wrap for my shooty tyranid army.

Please let me know how warriors are a great 'cog' in your armylist, so that I can show you how your 'machine' can do better with other parts.

Show me the armylist's pro warrior people!

I’m less interested in ‘Warriors are suboptimal, don’t take them’ perspectives than I am in ‘Warriors look awesome and are characterful and if you want to take a load of them this is the best way to use them’.

Nine coming out of a Tcyte looks tasty. I’m gonna give it a try. I’m sure there’s room for improvement but I paid good money for them and as long as it’s not a GT and they’re not Mutilator tier I’d like to give them a fielding.

nevermind, new thread

If you find a way to make warriors useful, I’m interested in hearing about it.