Those Termies look good in the better pics, but at this point I'm wondering if they are literally just Assault Termies with the option for a Chapter Banner, or whether they are a new unit.
I like the new banner. The terminators are OK but nothing special. I've already got my 3rd edition space hulk termies long ago and I won't swap them out for those.
Did you really need to requote all those pictures?
And yes, it does appear to be Dante.
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Kanluwen wrote: I hate filing off fiddly details like that, just to field a damn Librarian for my Deathwing.
Could you not just cut off the gems under his wrist and paint the rest of the blood droops green, pretend they're gems and call it a day? Why deny yourself a fairly cool looking TermieLib.
Very underwhelmed with the kits so far in this release and the upcoming terminators. Guess I've been spoiled by the DC and Sang kits so much that these don't really do much for me. I'll still pick up a box of everything so I can add them to my collection but so far everything looks just "meh".
Nevelon wrote: Looking at the sprue pics of the sang. priest it should be easy to work with. The BA shoulder pad even looks to be separate, for all the successor chapters.
Or for those of us who say "Deathwatch!" whenever we see a Marine character model with an optional shoulder pad.
Well looks Like I'm Gonna grab a couple boxes of terminators to go along with the new tac kits. With the Death storm boxes I bought I'll just mix n match the terminators all up giving everyone a little Blood Angels bling, add on some TH and SS bits and good to go.
Sorry for the pic quote but at quick glance I thought that might have been a new sculpt for Dante, but it's the old one. Mephiston and Astorath are also in the picture too. Same models. So if there is any new SC models, it would most likely be tycho. But doubt it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, looks like Meph and Big D ain't gettin' new models.
The bad news is that they're not apparently getting new sculpts. The good news is that they're apparently not getting new sculpts which, judging by the Space Wolves, would have mephiston riding this psychic contraption:
H.B.M.C. wrote:Are those new Termies on 50mm bases?
Doesn't look like it. I think they're still on 40's.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah, looks like Meph and Big D ain't gettin' new models.
Dante wouldn't be a hard conversion. The SangGuard box is ripe for the picking.
Even Meph wouldn't be too tricky I don't think. I'd even be tempted to knock him up out of the new Sangpriest. Take the body, leave off the arms and backpack. Give him a plasma pistol then find an ornate looking sword, again, something out of the SangGuard box.. The hardest part would be finding an a appropriate head.
So to keep with tradition, this is the first indicator Seth, Tycho, and the Sanguinor are to be cut from the codex? Unless we're getting a bigger Sanguinor because we can't have Warmachine showing us up (Harbinger, baby!). But in reality, that's the only model that could go absolutely bonkers with a new sculpt (more dynamic, for one) versus two more PA dudes.
Alright. I added a 55 page PDF to my compilation post that compiles previews from: Blood Angels Codex iBooks Interactive Edition, Blood Angels Codex eBooks Edition, Sons of Sanguinius iBooks Interactive Edition. You can download it here.
Also... is that an Ultramarine Symbol on his kneepad?
Uh, no. The upper edging of the black wing on his greave is painted gold.
I'm talking about the one with Lightning Claws, his right knee (our left). In the center of the cross/circle.
good eye, but I think it's just the gemstone painting since its green. either that or it's an Alpha legion disguised as a blood angel with ultramarine symbols to try and get them fighting each other
Is it just me, or do the BA Termies and the new Libby look like slightly modded ports of the Space Hulk plastics? The Deathstorm SC was a one off, so maybe that's understandable to re-use a 3D file for a smaller run. But it strikes me as just cutting corners to reuse digital assets for a multi-part plastic kit; a bit too copy-paste for my tastes.
It's funny: with all this technology and supposedly limitless possibilities, we're back to when sculptors would re-cast a pose and sculpt on a different head and some dangly bitz and create a variant. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Still no plastic Terminator Librarian. That guy is Blood Angels specific.
So dumb. Let's give the Chapter/Legion that isn't famed for their obscene amounts of Terminator armor a new Terminator kit and a Terminator Librarian model!
I can't imagine why they went and made the Termy Libby BA-specific. Such a bone-headed move.
And GWOZ lied. My Deathstorm box didn't ship on Thursday. I guess they're sticking to their usual inane shipping method, where they ship Friday so you don't get it on release-day Saturday. x = GW.
I don't get GW these days. They could have released a brand new dual-kit of Terminator plastics that made up either Assault or Tactical Terminators, alongside a plastic Terminator Librarian that would no doubt sell well despite the inevitably ridiculous price, and just painted them up all Blood Angel-y to tie them into the release, thereby garnering extra sales from other Marine players and free up store shelf space at the same time.
Instead they release a chapter-specific box(two, including the Tacticals) that are just duplicates of existing models with more specific bling, and coat the Librarian in chapter-specific iconography. It's like they don't actually want to make money.
Anyone else notice that Descent of Angels is now a warlord trait? Thats mildly disconcerting. The traits have super cool names though. Like artisan of war, or soul warden.
th3maninblak wrote: Anyone else notice that Descent of Angels is now a warlord trait? Thats mildly disconcerting. The traits have super cool names though. Like artisan of war, or soul warden.
Pretty safe to assume the army wide Descent of angels is gone.
Sang guard and Death Company didn't have it
It's not in the jump pack rules
And it's shown up as a warlord trait.
Maybe we will get parts of it back via a formation/dataslate, but it's gone by default I think.
Hm no DoA.. Operation: Make all armies Bland .. is continuing as planned. Blood Talons might as well get their named changed to "Blanderizer Talons" as that's the theme lately lol
Welp, with the updated tacticals it's finally worth taking a squad or two with a standard BA army I think, although I have to wait and see if the ASM's get any buffs or nerfs to really be sure.
As much as I want the model, I'm pretty annoyed that the sanguinary priest is a monopose 30 dollar model - *shakes fist*.
th3maninblak wrote: Anyone else notice that Descent of Angels is now a warlord trait? Thats mildly disconcerting. The traits have super cool names though. Like artisan of war, or soul warden.
It was beyond inevitable.
Nothing says "balance" and "forge the narrative" like your list working in randomly different ways every game unless you take a specific SC.
I made my own Mephiston a while ago using nipple armour torso, robe legs plasma pistol/sword and a bare head from the SW the one that looks like He-Man :-) he turned out really nicely!
Any rumor or confirmation on how to give the Terminator that Company Banner? That looks like it's going to be a sure addition for my own army but I'm not seeing a precedent for Terminators carrying banners other than the Grey Knight Paladins. While I'm all for 2 Wound Terminators, that seems very expensive.
th3maninblak wrote: Anyone else notice that Descent of Angels is now a warlord trait? Thats mildly disconcerting. The traits have super cool names though. Like artisan of war, or soul warden.
......... this is going to suck, if there isn't something in return for basically losing this to randomness. Considering it was our basic equivalent of a chapter tactic....... but hey .....why make sense.
Given it looks like a new kit...I'd say the rumor is there's going to be a new termi kit for BA.
As for those who wish to whine ALREADY without the codex even being out, please go elsewhere. You make the internet a crappy place with your overt and unwarranted negativity.
warboss wrote: I wonder if the termie humpback decorations are really iron halos or just bling. They look like the former visually and it would be interesting to see a full squad of 4+ invul tactical termies.
Bling most likely. Just look at the Space Hulk termies.
Still don't know the answer for sure. In the PDF that collated all the ipad previews, it actually labels the thing an "Aureate Halo". Since it is a preview pdf, I can't access the little "i" info tag next to it though.
th3maninblak wrote: Anyone else notice that Descent of Angels is now a warlord trait? Thats mildly disconcerting. The traits have super cool names though. Like artisan of war, or soul warden.
......... this is going to suck, if there isn't something in return for basically losing this to randomness. Considering it was our basic equivalent of a chapter tactic....... but hey .....why make sense.
Has anyone seen a leak or preview yet of the red thirst rules? Do all blood angels have furious charge like they used to? In the preview pdf posted a few pages back by Dedard, they don't have anything listed under army special rules. Space wolves get counterattack and acute senses, DA get stubborn, vanilla marines get pretty much one of everything depending on which chapter tactic you take... and Blood Angels get... nipples?
Like I said before, be careful what you wish for. Everyone wanted a new BA codex sooo bad, you ignored the warnings and didn't pay attention when all the other 7th edition codices dropped ("You're just being negative!"), or you naively thought you would be getting better treatment despite two other Marine armies not being so lucky ("Negative!")...and now it's starting to look like the new codex might not actually be an improvement over the old like you previously believed?
...yeah, totally didn't see that one coming. There was absolutely no precedent for this. Completely...unexpected...
Personally, though, I'm still holding out a slight sliver of hope that this book ends up being OP as feth, just so it takes some more of the heat off of Tau and everyone has a new army to whine about. Bonus points if it ends up driving BA players out of the game because either there's no challenge anymore and the game is completely unfulfilling, or better yet, the community forces them to "retire" their armies because it's just so unfair to play against them, and all their beautiful nipple-y models sit on the shelf gathering dust again or get sold on eBay for a pittance. But I find it unlikely.
Yes, I'm a vindictive son of a bitch, bite me.
Anyway, I heard that the Librarian model might be $50, is there any truth to that or is it just wild speculation? I assume it would be $30 like the other Marine characters, which is still pretty ludicrous on its own, but $50 is just so absurd, even for GW, that I find it pretty hard to believe.
Anyway, I heard that the Librarian model might be $50, is there any truth to that or is it just wild speculation? I assume it would be $30 like the other Marine characters, which is still pretty ludicrous on its own, but $50 is just so absurd, even for GW, that I find it pretty hard to believe.
I haven't heard that anywhere. What I have heard is he is a made from the supposed (and seemingly confirmed from those previews the BL has released) BA terminator kit, which could make him $50(or $10, since those usually come ing roups of 5 in a box).
I haven't heard that anywhere. What I have heard is he is a made from the supposed (and seemingly confirmed from those previews the BL has released) BA terminator kit, which could make him $50(or $10, since those usually come ing roups of 5 in a box).
So perhaps the only way to buy him, much like the Chaplain in the Reclusiam Command Squad? That would make sense from a sales perspective from GW's side of things.
but still a loss or randomizing of DOA actually, would make me a sad panda.
I really hope all of special rules aren't tied to getting charges off though........ I had way to many opponents figure out they should start charging me first in order to cancel out any special effects and sand bag me down. This was my main hope for this codex really. But enough wish listing. answers are only a week away now
In all seriousness though I hope it's not that bad. My brother plays Blood Angels and I'd hate to see him get another crappy update after already having endured the new CSM book. One of his Khorne-worshipping armies of lunatics should at least have a playable book.
Anyway, I heard that the Librarian model might be $50, is there any truth to that or is it just wild speculation? I assume it would be $30 like the other Marine characters, which is still pretty ludicrous on its own, but $50 is just so absurd, even for GW, that I find it pretty hard to believe.
I haven't heard that anywhere. What I have heard is he is a made from the supposed (and seemingly confirmed from those previews the BL has released) BA terminator kit, which could make him $50(or $10, since those usually come ing roups of 5 in a box).
Oh, really? I assumed it was a clampack like the priest and other Marine characters. Packaging him in a box like that might not be so bad...in my opinion anyway. Yeah, you have to buy a bunch of models you might not necessarily want, but considering the only other option is paying out the ass anyway and only getting the one model then it's certainly not the worst option.
And with a lowly tactical squad slowly creeping up there to match ($43 now, wow...), $50 for a terminator kit doesn't sound quite as bad anymore.
Sidstyler wrote: Like I said before, be careful what you wish for. Everyone wanted a new BA codex sooo bad, you ignored the warnings and didn't pay attention when all the other 7th edition codices dropped ("You're just being negative!"), or you naively thought you would be getting better treatment despite two other Marine armies not being so lucky ("Negative!")...and now it's starting to look like the new codex might not actually be an improvement over the old like you previously believed?
Death Company with JP is either 23 or 25 and they only lost 1 WS and became scoring. Sanguinary Guard seem to be 33 points. So it's already better than the old Codex, nothing to worry about.
And with a lowly tactical squad slowly creeping up there to match ($43 now, wow...), $50 for a terminator kit doesn't sound quite as bad anymore.
Actually, the new BA-squad is a euro cheaper than the general one.
Based on the Space Wolves (and other recent) Codexes, if Decent of Angels has moved into Warlord Traits (much like our old sagas) you will we one or more specific named characters with it as a fixed warlord trait. It will likely only affect the warlord, his unit or 1d3 units.
Several of those warlord traits will be built around making the core elements of Blood Angels more effective, so expect a lot of Deep Strike/Assault related buffs that will make not getting Descent of Angels on the roll not as bad as you may have feared.
You will also see a formation or detachment specific to Blood Angels that will allow a reroll on the table for your HQ plus some sort of cool detachment/formation wide rule that let's you do something very Blood Angel-ly, such as drop striking part of your army on turn one, or reduced scatter army wide.
Yodhrin wrote: I don't get GW these days. They could have released a brand new dual-kit of Terminator plastics that made up either Assault or Tactical Terminators, alongside a plastic Terminator Librarian that would no doubt sell well despite the inevitably ridiculous price, and just painted them up all Blood Angel-y to tie them into the release, thereby garnering extra sales from other Marine players and free up store shelf space at the same time.
Instead they release a chapter-specific box(two, including the Tacticals) that are just duplicates of existing models with more specific bling, and coat the Librarian in chapter-specific iconography. It's like they don't actually want to make money.
It's probably their way of distinguishing the two codices out. I know it's kind of hard from a money making kind of view but then again Forge World are already on their way to releasing different Terminator kits for different chapters and they already have a different Terminator box for Grey Knights. The banner with the models is an indication that they are going to be diverting even the Terminators for Blood Angels away from the Codex Space marines ones. Perhaps we might see some new termies when they redo C:SM.
troa wrote: As for those who wish to whine ALREADY without the codex even being out, please go elsewhere. You make the internet a crappy place with your overt and unwarranted negativity.
You realize the hypocrisy in whining about whining, I hope.
Anyway, I don't see the point in trying to sugar-coat it. If DoA is a warlord trait, then that sucks. End of. And it's also very likely, considering the trend.
They'll probably get a formation that does something similarly though.
troa wrote: As for those who wish to whine ALREADY without the codex even being out, please go elsewhere. You make the internet a crappy place with your overt and unwarranted negativity.
You realize the hypocrisy in whining about whining, I hope.
Anyway, I don't see the point in trying to sugar-coat it. If DoA is a warlord trait, then that sucks. End of. And it's also very likely, considering the trend.
They'll probably get a formation that does something similarly though.
Thats the general consensus. It does suck though. A lot.
But it cant all be sunshine and rainbows. The other major rumors so far (points adjustments for death co and sanguinary guard, army wide furious charge) have all been awesome changes. There are always new codex changes that most people wont like.
You know that with a model release at £18 a pop they will make them awesome rules wise so they can sell some kits.
That staggers me, £18 for a single 28mm plastic figure. That's absurdity, do people pay this? There are Forgeworld resins that are less that that and their quality is far ahead. Clearly I'm out of touch with GW pricing, I usually just look at the pictures now, and the Blood Angels do look good. I consider Knight Models pricy asking £13 for individual Batman figures but at least they're a small company covering what is likely an expensive licence. £18 for a plastic stuns me.
Sidstyler wrote: Like I said before, be careful what you wish for. Everyone wanted a new BA codex sooo bad, you ignored the warnings and didn't pay attention when all the other 7th edition codices dropped ("You're just being negative!"), or you naively thought you would be getting better treatment despite two other Marine armies not being so lucky ("Negative!")...and now it's starting to look like the new codex might not actually be an improvement over the old like you previously believed?
...yeah, totally didn't see that one coming. There was absolutely no precedent for this. Completely...unexpected...
Personally, though, I'm still holding out a slight sliver of hope that this book ends up being OP as feth, just so it takes some more of the heat off of Tau and everyone has a new army to whine about. Bonus points if it ends up driving BA players out of the game because either there's no challenge anymore and the game is completely unfulfilling, or better yet, the community forces them to "retire" their armies because it's just so unfair to play against them, and all their beautiful nipple-y models sit on the shelf gathering dust again or get sold on eBay for a pittance. But I find it unlikely.
Yes, I'm a vindictive son of a bitch, bite me.
I've been playing since 3rd edition so I remember the times when we didn't have descent of angels. If the whole army is going back to having furious charge then that's what we had back in 3rd edition. I still think we will end with a better codex than what we had before. I just think there is a bit too much negativity about us "losing things" when in reality what we gain will give us the much updated boost we needed. It's always swings and roundabouts whenever a new codex gets released anyway from my personal experience, but I had to give you the thumbs up because I echo you sentiment about the warnings that of course our new codex is going to come with some major changes. It always has.
troa wrote: As for those who wish to whine ALREADY without the codex even being out, please go elsewhere. You make the internet a crappy place with your overt and unwarranted negativity.
You realize the hypocrisy in whining about whining, I hope.
Anyway, I don't see the point in trying to sugar-coat it. If DoA is a warlord trait, then that sucks. End of. And it's also very likely, considering the trend.
They'll probably get a formation that does something similarly though.
Thats the general consensus. It does suck though. A lot.
But it cant all be sunshine and rainbows. The other major rumors so far (points adjustments for death co and sanguinary guard, army wide furious charge) have all been awesome changes. There are always new codex changes that most people wont like.
For sure, a mixed bag of changes thus far. I don't think the codex is doomed from what we've seen- but then I also haven't seen anyone seriously make that claim either.
I am concerned though, won't lie. Things like army-wide furious charge and minor points drop are nice, but they don't address the BA's core issue. We've never had an issue with killing things once we reach them, it's actually getting to them in one piece that prevents us from being competitive. We've almost assuredly lost our ability to assault after deep-striking, and now it's likely that DoA is a warlord trait, further destabilizing our DS capabilities.
Fingers crossed that GW will give us a safe delivery method.
troa wrote: As for those who wish to whine ALREADY without the codex even being out, please go elsewhere. You make the internet a crappy place with your overt and unwarranted negativity.
You realize the hypocrisy in whining about whining, I hope.
Anyway, I don't see the point in trying to sugar-coat it. If DoA is a warlord trait, then that sucks. End of. And it's also very likely, considering the trend.
They'll probably get a formation that does something similarly though.
This only means something if you think that whining is something you shouldn't do under any circumstance. I think he was pointing out the circumstances in which they were whining. i.e. whining about the codex when we don't even have it yet. I am thinking he is ok with whining about people who are whining about something when they have a lack of information.
You know that with a model release at £18 a pop they will make them awesome rules wise so they can sell some kits.
That staggers me, £18 for a single 28mm plastic figure. That's absurdity, do people pay this? There are Forgeworld resins that are less that that and their quality is far ahead. Clearly I'm out of touch with GW pricing, I usually just look at the pictures now, and the Blood Angels do look good. I consider Knight Models pricy asking £13 for individual Batman figures but at least they're a small company covering what is likely an expensive licence. £18 for a plastic stuns me.
I suppose it is a lot but nobody ever said that this hobby would be cheap.
I might buy or two cause I do like the look of the model itself. As I said before though I'm not a big fan in the colours they painted him up in.
troa wrote: As for those who wish to whine ALREADY without the codex even being out, please go elsewhere. You make the internet a crappy place with your overt and unwarranted negativity.
You realize the hypocrisy in whining about whining, I hope.
Anyway, I don't see the point in trying to sugar-coat it. If DoA is a warlord trait, then that sucks. End of. And it's also very likely, considering the trend.
They'll probably get a formation that does something similarly though.
This only means something if you think that whining is something you shouldn't do under any circumstance. I think he was pointing out the circumstances in which they were whining. i.e. whining about the codex when we don't even have it yet. I am thinking he is ok with whining about people who are whining about something when they have a lack of information.
No doubt he thinks that his whining is somehow justified while other peoples' aren't.
He's just wrong. If people are allowed to post their jubilation at every posted change, whether it's confirmed or not, then people are also allowed to post their concerns at every posted change, whether they're confirmed or not. That's the difference between a public discussion and a echo chamber.
angelofvengeance wrote: To be honest, I'd field that plastic SP as Corbulo over Corbulo's current model any day. Not a great deal of difference between em.
Loving those BA tactical squads, but I'd not have all my squad leaders with mop tops.
Bit lazy of GW to copy paste Calistarius/Mephiston's model from SH and basically just re-pose him
It's not just Calistarius, there are QUITE a few that are space hulk reposes.
Claudio (lightening claws?) is the blatant base for the sergeant of the lightening claws termies.
angelofvengeance wrote: To be honest, I'd field that plastic SP as Corbulo over Corbulo's current model any day. Not a great deal of difference between em.
Loving those BA tactical squads, but I'd not have all my squad leaders with mop tops.
Bit lazy of GW to copy paste Calistarius/Mephiston's model from SH and basically just re-pose him
Its more than that. Its also a copy and paste of the old metal TDA libby, just turned to the right imstead of left (the Librarian's right and left). The old Librarian had a open hand a Heresy Style Combi-Weapon (side by side rather than under/over like the Tacticals), although it was a plasma rather than melta. It is actually a very clever model because they just rehashed the old model, which is safe business as they know the old one sold well, and to make it BA, added some Space Hulk flavour, because they know SH sold incredibly well. They are playing it safe with Deathstorm and the BA release me thinks.
Redemption wrote: They do seem to be cementing in the term Archangels for the 1st Company, akin to the Dark Angel's Deathwing. Perhaps they will get some extra rules?
Think Champions of Frnris for what you'll probably get.
Alternate relics, alternate warlord traits, special rules for formation and/or detachment.
angelofvengeance wrote: To be honest, I'd field that plastic SP as Corbulo over Corbulo's current model any day. Not a great deal of difference between em.
Loving those BA tactical squads, but I'd not have all my squad leaders with mop tops.
Bit lazy of GW to copy paste Calistarius/Mephiston's model from SH and basically just re-pose him
Its more than that. Its also a copy and paste of the old metal TDA libby, just turned to the right imstead of left (the Librarian's right and left). The old Librarian had a open hand a Heresy Style Combi-Weapon (side by side rather than under/over like the Tacticals), although it was a plasma rather than melta. It is actually a very clever model because they just rehashed the old model, which is safe business as they know the old one sold well, and to make it BA, added some Space Hulk flavour, because they know SH sold incredibly well. They are playing it safe with Deathstorm and the BA release me thinks.
I'm not sure you have a strong understanding of what 'copy paste' means in relation to sculpting.
I kind of understand it as the Dread and Death Company are too blinged up to fit any transfers on but having seen the Stormclaw SW transfers these are a bit underwhelming.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: I kind of understand it as the Dread and Death Company are too blinged up to fit any transfers on but having seen the Stormclaw SW transfers these are a bit underwhelming.
Any pics of the Stormclaw ones for comparison? I didn't get to see em.
Well if that is all we are going to get for decals in Deathstorm, I am going to try to make soft copies (so they wrap around the shoulder pad) of the FW Blood Angels icons to attach to my Terminators so they look more like the rest of the army with molded parts.
As for Do A being pushed to a Warlord trait, I hope there is an abundance of characters with the trait, because otherwise DS heavy armies(which most of BA are...) are doomed. I guess they are probably going to move a ton of BA Tactical squads. I am rethinking the entirety of my planned army. Sucks because I love the jump pack aesthetic. Might need to get a squad of Scout Bikers to infiltrate with a locator beacon.
So is the consensus that the librarian is part of the terminator kit? There are two versions here, the darker one with the combi weapon featured with the new termies and the lighter one with outstretched hand on his own, suggesting it isn't simply a clampack character like the priest.
It's just a hand swap (not unlike the current Terminator Librarian), the rest of the model is completely the same so is probably mono-pose. Don't see why they would put a mono-pose option in a multi-part kit. Also, think of how much they could charge for him if he came in a clam pack; at least £20. My money's on solo figure.
The difference in paint quality of the combi-melta one and the oustretched hand version is stark, with the former being markedly superior to the latter. In general I noticed that a lot of the codex photos don't bear up to much zooming, very untidy line highlights on anything other than the Terminators.
I think the transfers in the Baal box could never aspire to the FW sheet why worry about it . If you are serious about Blood Angel transfers you would have that already .
angelofvengeance wrote: To be honest, I'd field that plastic SP as Corbulo over Corbulo's current model any day. Not a great deal of difference between em.
Loving those BA tactical squads, but I'd not have all my squad leaders with mop tops.
Bit lazy of GW to copy paste Calistarius/Mephiston's model from SH and basically just re-pose him
Its more than that. Its also a copy and paste of the old metal TDA libby, just turned to the right imstead of left (the Librarian's right and left). The old Librarian had a open hand a Heresy Style Combi-Weapon (side by side rather than under/over like the Tacticals), although it was a plasma rather than melta. It is actually a very clever model because they just rehashed the old model, which is safe business as they know the old one sold well, and to make it BA, added some Space Hulk flavour, because they know SH sold incredibly well. They are playing it safe with Deathstorm and the BA release me thinks.
I'm not sure you have a strong understanding of what 'copy paste' means in relation to sculpting.
Nope, I use it in reference to Ctrl+C Ctrl+V where it duplicates what you've selected.
Anyway, its more akin to the old TDA Libby than Callistarus in terms of pose, but with elements of SH's version to promote sales (safety net because SH sold well so something like SH will sell well).
With regards to all the moaning & gnashing of teeth over the potential move of DoA to a Warlord Trait...
Does absolutely no one really think to have just a quick word with their opponent about simply choosing a Warlord Trait in their army list instead of rolling randomly?
And is Astronomi-con really the only tournament out there that allows players to pick a specific trait as long as it's clearly listed in their army list?!
This isn't a serious problem. A little bit of civilised conversation and both players can have some cake and eat it too.
keas66 wrote: I think the transfers in the Baal box could never aspire to the FW sheet why worry about it . If you are serious about Blood Angel transfers you would have that already .
Or not if you don't want half a sheets' worth of successor transfers you won't get around to using. Forgeworld has a good sheet is not a reason for GW to abrogate their responsibilities as far as transfer sheets go. The above just looks unfinished.
Experiment 626 wrote: With regards to all the moaning & gnashing of teeth over the potential move of DoA to a Warlord Trait...
Does absolutely no one really think to have just a quick word with their opponent about simply choosing a Warlord Trait in their army list instead of rolling randomly?
And is Astronomi-con really the only tournament out there that allows players to pick a specific trait as long as it's clearly listed in their army list?!
This isn't a serious problem. A little bit of civilised conversation and both players can have some cake and eat it too.
It is such an easily solved issue in the first place. Infiltrated Scouts, characters with set abilities, etc. Never know, there might even be some wargear of some sort that mitigate the problem somehow. We really won't know until the codex hits.
DoA just seems like something that would have been more integral to the army than armywide Furious Charge.
troa wrote: As for those who wish to whine ALREADY without the codex even being out, please go elsewhere. You make the internet a crappy place with your overt and unwarranted negativity.
You realize the hypocrisy in whining about whining, I hope.
I wonder if they gonna boost sang priest in order to justify those 18£ for the new model (25€ in my country, damn crazy) and nerf Corbulo so people dont buy a far cheaper priest.
I'm sorry but running around with a cup in your hand while there is a planet infested with nids [MOD EDIT - Please find a different way to express yourself. - Alpharius]. Baal deserves everything that's coming to it!
Is it just me or the sheer amount of Blood Angel specific bling on the Terminators and Tactical squad really off putting if you collect a successor chapter, like, say....Flesh Tearers.
I mean, I don't mind the odd blood drop, chalice or winged bit here or there but it'd be really nice if all the shoulder pads weren't Blood Angel specific and if at least some of that was 'optional' decoration.
Experiment 626 wrote: With regards to all the moaning & gnashing of teeth over the potential move of DoA to a Warlord Trait...
Does absolutely no one really think to have just a quick word with their opponent about simply choosing a Warlord Trait in their army list instead of rolling randomly?
And is Astronomi-con really the only tournament out there that allows players to pick a specific trait as long as it's clearly listed in their army list?!
This isn't a serious problem. A little bit of civilised conversation and both players can have some cake and eat it too.
This is what both of my gaming groups do, it's SOOOOO much better than the current system. There's still 2 other things to note though:
1) Guaranteed, there will be a character who comes with DOA that you can get if it's integral to your strategy.
2) We still just don't know the rules and are knee-jerk reacting. The warlord trait may do something entirely different than the old rule, and it might have just been shuffled elsewhere or become a detachment special rule.
If nothing else though, mass deep strike still kinda sucks. I was always overjoyed to see a mass deepstriking DOA list because it meant I'd feth them up so badly (weak shooting on the drop, everyone's spaced together, they can't charge so neuter the army's strength by charing them first, etc).
Is anyone else surprised by the apparent focus on tactical marines and terminators? Seems to go against how most people have been building and playing Blood Angels armies in the past (i.e. fast moving / assault focused).
Being cynical you might say Games Workshop figures BA players already have plenty of those units and therefore want to push others instead, but if so you'd expect certain boons in the rules for those units to make them more appealing... Are we seeing a shift in the style of the army with this codex?
LutherMax wrote: Is anyone else surprised by the apparent focus on tactical marines and terminators? Seems to go against how most people have been building and playing Blood Angels armies in the past (i.e. fast moving / assault focused).
Being cynical you might say Games Workshop figures BA players already have plenty of those units and therefore want to push others instead, but if so you'd expect certain boons in the rules for those units to make them more appealing... Are we seeing a shift in the style of the army with this codex?
Indeed, it is pretty strange that GW focuses on Tacticals and normal Termies which have had no place in BA armies in the current incarnation of the codex.
Normal Termies are meh anyway and Assault Marines were superior to Tacticals.
Let's see what GW is giving us now.
LutherMax wrote: Being cynical you might say Games Workshop figures BA players already have plenty of those units and therefore want to push others instead, but if so you'd expect certain boons in the rules for those units to make them more appealing...
Not sure if this can already be said. With no rules leaked this time (seriously, ZERO) other than what GW wants to show and there is much more in both books I would not worry about things like that
I hope an a bit less cynical approach is okay? The Dark Eldar Codex and especially the SW one looked bad at first, but both turned out fine after their releases
Lord_Osma wrote: I actually almost never played DOA and got into BA because I liked all the tanks being fast. Have we confirmed if that rule is still around?
Same here. I wouldn't play BA if it wasnt for the fast vehicles. I've never cared about paying extra points for it.
We are fast and always (should) be.
Lord_Osma wrote: I actually almost never played DOA and got into BA because I liked all the tanks being fast. Have we confirmed if that rule is still around?
IIRC the 6th Ed FAQ had only the Baal Pred as Fast and all other Rhino-hull vehicles down as just Tank – resulting in widespread uproar among BA players!
The current FAQ has them all back as Fast
LutherMax wrote: Being cynical you might say Games Workshop figures BA players already have plenty of those units and therefore want to push others instead, but if so you'd expect certain boons in the rules for those units to make them more appealing...
Not sure if this can already be said. With no rules leaked this time (seriously, ZERO) other than what GW wants to show and there is much more in both books I would not worry about things like that
I hope an a bit less cynical approach is okay? The Dark Eldar Codex and especially the SW one looked bad at first, but both turned out fine after their releases
And better not start about the latest eldar dex
The Eldar Dex is old and out of date - should have been revised but GW can't be bothered to tone several units down in a faq to make them at the same level as eveyone else.
The Space Wolves Codex is "ok" - some nice pics, declining amount fluff and some oddities like the truely immense size of their fleet relative to the now more specfic Chapter size. TheM urder Dreadnought and Logan Sleigh were not high points for me....
The Dark Eldar Codex had its most of its Character section gutted and thrown away, they spat on the Wyches corpses and despite some nice images of them spent all its time trying to make you play with the Hormuclus Covens - including the supplement. Depsite the huge fluff support they didn;t even make the flyers Vector Dancers -
I would not be surpised if they focus on specfiic elements of the BA army - maybe its now Tac squads and Terminators (Space Hulk is re-released remember) - no sign of the usual supplement which I had thought might be Death Company (like The Storm Troopers) but looks like they have stayed in the main Dex.....
LIke most GW things, fast vehicles will stay or go on a whim - be a little shocked if something is not made into a Monsterous Creature.................
LutherMax wrote: Is anyone else surprised by the apparent focus on tactical marines and terminators? Seems to go against how most people have been building and playing Blood Angels armies in the past (i.e. fast moving / assault focused).
Being cynical you might say Games Workshop figures BA players already have plenty of those units and therefore want to push others instead, but if so you'd expect certain boons in the rules for those units to make them more appealing... Are we seeing a shift in the style of the army with this codex?
Maybe they're trying to get you guys to stop trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole with assaulty units in a shooty game.
The space wolf dex is very strong. Sure, there are some seriously stupid things in that book (murderface, santa wolf) but in general the book has fantastic internal and external balance.
The dark eldar codex is fairly dull and bland, but extremely powerful as well. Same with Grey Knights.
How do you guys feel about the FOC swaps?
Libby dreads to HQ, Seth to LOW, regular dread to elites, not sure where the DC sit as they are in troops for Deathstorm but elites in something else I read.
Seth to LOW surprised me, but I understand since him and Dante are the chapter masters. And he's only 155 points. Cheapest LOW so far. I hope he's viable, as I really like the model and his fluff.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, it seems like the painting schemes are moving away from the brighter orange-red and more into deeper darker red. I think the pictures that have been making the rounds look very good, and similar to how I paint mine.
If Rhino pattern stuff remains Fast for Blood Angels, I think I am going to recommission all of unbuilt Rhinos from my Crimson Fists army as Blood Angels.
Part of me thinks that GW got rid of DoA as an army wide thing because this way people have to buy a ton of transports. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. I am definitely going to magnetize my Death Company backpacks. I wonder if Blood Angels are going to get access to the Land Speeder Storm. Would rather use one of those than a Scout Biker Squad.
Not to point out the obvious, but that does not show Dante or Seth as lords of war. That shows them as highlighted of an unselected choice that actually looks like an HQ.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you look at the bottom of what the person has selected, no LoW is selected. One HQ, two troops, one elite, one fast and one heavy have been selected.
breakingstick wrote: Not to point out the obvious, but that does not show Dante or Seth as lords of war. That shows them as highlighted of an unselected choice that actually looks like an HQ.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you look at the bottom of what the person has selected, no LoW is selected. One HQ, two troops, one elite, one fast and one heavy have been selected.
If it was the HQ section, librarians, reclusiarch, captains, etc. would be an option to choose. But, seeing as it's only Dante and Seth as the only choices, you can assume it's LOW. At least that's my reasoning.
breakingstick wrote: Not to point out the obvious, but that does not show Dante or Seth as lords of war. That shows them as highlighted of an unselected choice that actually looks like an HQ.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you look at the bottom of what the person has selected, no LoW is selected. One HQ, two troops, one elite, one fast and one heavy have been selected.
Actually, you can view the LoW section but your selection won't show in the bottom til you press add to collection. If it was the HQ there would be the Priest, Chaplain, Librarian, Mephiston and Captain etc
Actually you would not see those because he actually has Dante and Seth selected but is not on the HQ or the LoW screen. So since he is not in those menus you will not see all of those except for those he has selected.
He is a good hand to hand fighter but he is not a lord of war. People are really misunderstanding how the app the works. Since nothing is selected it is not showing a LOW screen. It is showing the two guys that the user has moved into possible use.
Experiment 626 wrote: With regards to all the moaning & gnashing of teeth over the potential move of DoA to a Warlord Trait...
Does absolutely no one really think to have just a quick word with their opponent about simply choosing a Warlord Trait in their army list instead of rolling randomly? And is Astronomi-con really the only tournament out there that allows players to pick a specific trait as long as it's clearly listed in their army list?!
This isn't a serious problem. A little bit of civilised conversation and both players can have some cake and eat it too.
Why am I paying Games Workshop for rules if I'm going to house-rule their gak away on the grounds of it being idiotic?
If you took your car in to a mechanic shop to have it fixed, and the guy only fixed some of what you paid for him to repair, would you just say "lulz oh well, I can always just fix the rest of this myself"?
Lord_Osma wrote: I actually almost never played DOA and got into BA because I liked all the tanks being fast. Have we confirmed if that rule is still around?
Fingers crossed for fast to stay in!
I would even accept having to pay to upgrade them to fast.
Because this is not the same as a car. That's a terrible analogy since physical mechanics dictating whether or not something works and abstract mechanics allowing people to agree on how to play a game are not the same.
The same principle applies for payment though: if you don't like it and know that from the start, don't pay for it.
I think you misunderstand.
Nearly every BA-model I own has a Jump Pack which I use because Descent of Angels exists.
Deep Strike on itself sucks and I would have never bought so many JP-models if they scattered 2D6"
So the idea of "If you don't like it and know that from the start, don't pay for it" doesn't apply because I didn't know I would lose DoA.
But before we all panic we should probably wait until the entire Codex is released since I am sure we will obtain the D6"-scatter in some way, I'm guessing as a Detachment-ability or a fixed Warlord Trait on some HQ.
All JP is still decent even without DoA; running up the board 12+d6" a turn will still get you into CC by turn 3 or so, and it is easy enough to go from cover to cover within that move.
But for the record I still expect the detachment to help out.
troa wrote: Because this is not the same as a car. That's a terrible analogy since physical mechanics dictating whether or not something works and abstract mechanics allowing people to agree on how to play a game are not the same.
The analogy works because the principle is exactly the same, as you... point out directly below. There's no point in paying for a service that you're going to end up performing yourself as a result of the person you paid being incompetent. Ergo "just house rule it!" doesn't excuse gak game design.
troa wrote: Because this is not the same as a car. That's a terrible analogy since physical mechanics dictating whether or not something works and abstract mechanics allowing people to agree on how to play a game are not the same.
The analogy works because the principle is exactly the same, as you... point out directly below. There's no point in paying for a service that you're going to end up performing yourself as a result of the person you paid being incompetent. Ergo "just house rule it!" doesn't excuse gak game design.
Agreeing a house rule on warlord traits is more like topping your cars water up than performing anything mechanical on it though. I agree on your argument that GW should sort its rules out but this one is a minor fix.
troa wrote: Because this is not the same as a car. That's a terrible analogy since physical mechanics dictating whether or not something works and abstract mechanics allowing people to agree on how to play a game are not the same.
The analogy works because the principle is exactly the same, as you... point out directly below. There's no point in paying for a service that you're going to end up performing yourself as a result of the person you paid being incompetent. Ergo "just house rule it!" doesn't excuse gak game design.
You're serious? You are comparing that you personally don't like the rule changes in a codex is the same equivalent as your car being broke? You see this is the problem right here, you personally think that jump packs are useless without DoA and you don't like the rule being lost, even though we established that you don't know this since we don't have the codex and are therefore complaining about something with a complete lack of data. You simply don't know how jump packs will operate with Blood Angels this edition yet and that is a fact. The rules could be just fine for what all we know for jump pack models and your personal preference for the rules isn't the absolute standard of what the rules should be. The fact that you compare this to a broken car not being fixed just shows that to you this is more than just a personal opinion, you consider it to be objective fact when it is not. I get that you personally don't want to lose the rule and that's fine but please don't compare it to a situation like your car being broke and not working. A car has a clear objective on how it works. A game with rules does not operate in such a manner.
DarthOvious wrote: You're serious? You are comparing that you personally don't like the rule changes in a codex is the same equivalent as your car being broke?
metaphor
noun
1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable
you personally think that jump packs are useless without DoA
I said that moving the abilities to randomized warlord traits is bad game design and is unnescesarry. It "making jump packs useless" is an assertion you've made up to fuel your faux outrage.
Kangodo wrote: I think you misunderstand.
Nearly every BA-model I own has a Jump Pack which I use because Descent of Angels exists.
Deep Strike on itself sucks and I would have never bought so many JP-models if they scattered 2D6"
So the idea of "If you don't like it and know that from the start, don't pay for it" doesn't apply because I didn't know I would lose DoA.
But before we all panic we should probably wait until the entire Codex is released since I am sure we will obtain the D6"-scatter in some way, I'm guessing as a Detachment-ability or a fixed Warlord Trait on some HQ.
Well said, Kangodo! My Blood Angel army is DoA-focused and features 30 assault marines with jump packs as main element of my force. I did not do this because of the perceived value of the rules at the time. I did it because jump pack marines, in my mind, embodied the Blood Angels way of fighting. It was, and still is, extremely evocative. Yeah, you can tell me all about tac marines being the heart of any Astartes chapter and all that. However, the point remains that Blood Angels ARE assault marines (and like to go fast).
I think, at this point, my only hope for the codex is, as others suggest. a formation. Or, at the very least, assault marines will still be a Troops choice.
Kangodo wrote: I think you misunderstand.
Nearly every BA-model I own has a Jump Pack which I use because Descent of Angels exists.
Deep Strike on itself sucks and I would have never bought so many JP-models if they scattered 2D6"
So the idea of "If you don't like it and know that from the start, don't pay for it" doesn't apply because I didn't know I would lose DoA.
But before we all panic we should probably wait until the entire Codex is released since I am sure we will obtain the D6"-scatter in some way, I'm guessing as a Detachment-ability or a fixed Warlord Trait on some HQ.
See this:
Paradigm wrote: All JP is still decent even without DoA; running up the board 12+d6" a turn will still get you into CC by turn 3 or so, and it is easy enough to go from cover to cover within that move.
But for the record I still expect the detachment to help out.
12" moves every turn is WAY more useful to you than dropping from the sky once. D6" is good to have, but losing it is hardly going to completely invalidate the army... if you even lose it at all that is.
At work so I can't view the image *shakes fist at engineers* but in response to the Librarian being 65pts, FINALLY. It only took a fething year. Not surprised about the terminators, there was no way they were going to be any sort of different when DA and GK get their special snowflake terminators for fluff reasons and BA has no reason for different terminators.
For those of us without access to the site, any relevant information I'm missing?
Alright, let me try this again. Looks like the 90pts on the left page belongs to a Captain and the Librarian is equipped with Power Armor and the Bolt Pistol and has the upgrade option to lvl 2. Seems pretty normal. The pictures aren't of the whole page.
Super weird if it's just a BA assault terminator box.
Somehow that's more weird to me than a BA tactical box, I guess I've been prepped for that since 2nd edition.
So has it been confirmed that assault marines will still be a troop choice that is still my biggest fear. All other changes I can deal with but seeing as I don't own a single tactical marine for my blood Angels I would be very upset if all 50 of my assault marines no longer could be troops.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: So has it been confirmed that assault marines will still be a troop choice that is still my biggest fear. All other changes I can deal with but seeing as I don't own a single tactical marine for my blood Angels I would be very upset if all 50 of my assault marines no longer could be troops.
No word yet that I've seen.
So, no new terminator type, but a BA blinged out kit to go with the tactical kit and a new Sang priest kit.
There best be something hidden up their sleeve, or I'm not buying a thing this release. This is looking to be GK level of release ATM, nothing new, some nerfs, some buffs (only DC that's I've seen so far) but nothing particularly interesting. Bleh.
Posted by Natpri771 in 40k General Discussion:
1. Sanguinary Priests are now HQ choices
2. Death Company are now elites
3. Mephiston is not a lord of war
4. Tactical squads have been beefed up
5. There is a new Blood Angels psychic discipline
6. There is a new Blood Angels force organisation chart, The Baal Strike Force
7. Some new Blood Angels relics and wargear
8. Tycho has not been removed
9. There is a new Blood Angels successor chapter, The Carmine Blades
10. Hopefully, there will be a Flesh Tearers supplement
11. Hopefully, the Wardinator's taint will be removed
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625994.page#7409841
There has to be something new Terminator related. The Banner carrying Termi in a few pictures is more like the Grey Knight Paladins than anything else. I'm holding out for either a Terminator Command Squad or something special like 'Archangel Terminators'. I'm getting into this army with the plan on running atleast 13 Terminators per game..
Looking through the released preview pics, it is starting to look like the banner is part of an Assault Squad. Lots of Hammers and Claws in 'Captain Karlaen and Squad Bavetius'
Rippy wrote: Posted by Natpri771 in 40k General Discussion:
1. Sanguinary Priests are now HQ choices
2. Death Company are now elites
3. Mephiston is not a lord of war
4. Tactical squads have been beefed up
5. There is a new Blood Angels psychic discipline
6. There is a new Blood Angels force organisation chart, The Baal Strike Force
7. Some new Blood Angels relics and wargear
8. Tycho has not been removed
9. There is a new Blood Angels successor chapter, The Carmine Blades
10. Hopefully, there will be a Flesh Tearers supplement
11. Hopefully, the Wardinator's taint will be removed
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625994.page#7409841
Yuk if true and death company are elites and sang priests are hq feel like that really over loads the elite section and angers me a little what on earth am I going to do with 9 custom made sang priests
Rippy wrote: Posted by Natpri771 in 40k General Discussion:
1. Sanguinary Priests are now HQ choices
2. Death Company are now elites
3. Mephiston is not a lord of war
4. Tactical squads have been beefed up
5. There is a new Blood Angels psychic discipline
6. There is a new Blood Angels force organisation chart, The Baal Strike Force
7. Some new Blood Angels relics and wargear
8. Tycho has not been removed
9. There is a new Blood Angels successor chapter, The Carmine Blades
10. Hopefully, there will be a Flesh Tearers supplement
11. Hopefully, the Wardinator's taint will be removed
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625994.page#7409841
Yuk if true and death company are elites and sang priests are hq feel like that really over loads the elite section and angers me a little what on earth am I going to do with 9 custom made sang priests
Looked at some of the pictures that were posted on that link above. I doubt DC are elites (as it has a special group of them as troops). The biggest thing I have noticed is that Death Company are no longer WS5. That saddens me greatly :(
Rippy wrote: Posted by Natpri771 in 40k General Discussion:
1. Sanguinary Priests are now HQ choices
2. Death Company are now elites
3. Mephiston is not a lord of war
4. Tactical squads have been beefed up
5. There is a new Blood Angels psychic discipline
6. There is a new Blood Angels force organisation chart, The Baal Strike Force
7. Some new Blood Angels relics and wargear
8. Tycho has not been removed
9. There is a new Blood Angels successor chapter, The Carmine Blades
10. Hopefully, there will be a Flesh Tearers supplement
11. Hopefully, the Wardinator's taint will be removed
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625994.page#7409841
Yuk if true and death company are elites and sang priests are hq feel like that really over loads the elite section and angers me a little what on earth am I going to do with 9 custom made sang priests
Looked at some of the pictures that were posted on that link above. I doubt DC are elites (as it has a special group of them as troops). The biggest thing I have noticed is that Death Company are no longer WS5. That saddens me greatly :(
IMO the massive points reduction more than makes up for it. And IMO it never made sense to me that DC and Berserker got BETTER in CC. Should they be so rage-filled that their WS goes LOWER, if anything?
IMO the massive points reduction more than makes up for it. And IMO it never made sense to me that DC and Berserker got BETTER in CC. Should they be so rage-filled that their WS goes LOWER, if anything?
Also yuk, it looks like the magna-grapple is no longer a shooting attack, just gives the dread move through cover (which is nice). I also hope the DC dread's None Shal Stay My Wrath special rule isn't only going to be for that named DC dread. The more I look at these rumors the more I notice my DC + dreads army is dead. :(
Also looks like the massive point reduction given to death company are in the form of -10 points per jump pack.
Also, anyone notice that Cassor the Damned is missing a strength value?
IMO the massive points reduction more than makes up for it. And IMO it never made sense to me that DC and Berserker got BETTER in CC. Should they be so rage-filled that their WS goes LOWER, if anything?
Also yuk, it looks like the magna-grapple is no longer a shooting attack, just gives the dread move through cover (which is nice). I also hope the DC dread's None Shal Stay My Wrath special rule isn't only going to be for that named DC dread. The more I look at these rumors the more I notice my DC + dreads army is dead. :(
Also looks like the massive point reduction given to death company are in the form of -10 points per jump pack.
Also, anyone notice that Cassor the Damned is missing a strength value?
Rippy wrote: Posted by Natpri771 in 40k General Discussion:
1. Sanguinary Priests are now HQ choices
2. Death Company are now elites
3. Mephiston is not a lord of war
4. Tactical squads have been beefed up
5. There is a new Blood Angels psychic discipline
6. There is a new Blood Angels force organisation chart, The Baal Strike Force
7. Some new Blood Angels relics and wargear
8. Tycho has not been removed
9. There is a new Blood Angels successor chapter, The Carmine Blades
10. Hopefully, there will be a Flesh Tearers supplement
11. Hopefully, the Wardinator's taint will be removed
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625994.page#7409841
Yuk if true and death company are elites and sang priests are hq feel like that really over loads the elite section and angers me a little what on earth am I going to do with 9 custom made sang priests
Looked at some of the pictures that were posted on that link above. I doubt DC are elites (as it has a special group of them as troops). The biggest thing I have noticed is that Death Company are no longer WS5. That saddens me greatly :(
I'm afraid it's true. If you look at the blood Angels elite section on the GW site, you will find death company. It looks like they have been nerfed as well. This is bad for my BA army, as I now have to drop my landspeeders and replace them with assault squads which cannot deep strike due to it breaking the 50% rule.
Rippy wrote: Posted by Natpri771 in 40k General Discussion:
1. Sanguinary Priests are now HQ choices
2. Death Company are now elites
3. Mephiston is not a lord of war
4. Tactical squads have been beefed up
5. There is a new Blood Angels psychic discipline
6. There is a new Blood Angels force organisation chart, The Baal Strike Force
7. Some new Blood Angels relics and wargear
8. Tycho has not been removed
9. There is a new Blood Angels successor chapter, The Carmine Blades
10. Hopefully, there will be a Flesh Tearers supplement
11. Hopefully, the Wardinator's taint will be removed
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625994.page#7409841
Yuk if true and death company are elites and sang priests are hq feel like that really over loads the elite section and angers me a little what on earth am I going to do with 9 custom made sang priests
Looked at some of the pictures that were posted on that link above. I doubt DC are elites (as it has a special group of them as troops). The biggest thing I have noticed is that Death Company are no longer WS5. That saddens me greatly :(
I'm afraid it's true. If you look at the blood Angels elite section on the GW site, you will find death company. It looks like they have been nerfed as well. This is bad for my BA army, as I now have to drop my landspeeders and replace them with assault squads which cannot deep strike due to it breaking the 50% rule.
Rippy wrote: Posted by Natpri771 in 40k General Discussion:
1. Sanguinary Priests are now HQ choices
2. Death Company are now elites
3. Mephiston is not a lord of war
4. Tactical squads have been beefed up
5. There is a new Blood Angels psychic discipline
6. There is a new Blood Angels force organisation chart, The Baal Strike Force
7. Some new Blood Angels relics and wargear
8. Tycho has not been removed
9. There is a new Blood Angels successor chapter, The Carmine Blades
10. Hopefully, there will be a Flesh Tearers supplement
11. Hopefully, the Wardinator's taint will be removed
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625994.page#7409841
Yuk if true and death company are elites and sang priests are hq feel like that really over loads the elite section and angers me a little what on earth am I going to do with 9 custom made sang priests
Looked at some of the pictures that were posted on that link above. I doubt DC are elites (as it has a special group of them as troops). The biggest thing I have noticed is that Death Company are no longer WS5. That saddens me greatly :(
Are you telling me I've been pranked since May of this year? Goddammit
I'm afraid it's true. If you look at the blood Angels elite section on the GW site, you will find death company. It looks like they have been nerfed as well. This is bad for my BA army, as I now have to drop my landspeeders and replace them with assault squads which cannot deep strike due to it breaking the 50% rule.
Well, there's a warlord trait called "Descent of Angels" and Descent of angels is absent from the jump pack rules and death company at least....beyond that is speculation, but it seems like DoA is a warlord trait now, and one I expect Dante to have by default. What it does now is anyone's guess of course.
evildrcheese wrote: Maybe DC, if they are moved to elites, will be a slotless elites choice, a bit like how the new Nid 'drop pod' is a slotless heavy?
Also, DC and the named DC dread are troops in the Deathstorm, seems strange that this would change in the main dex?
D
Maybe they are troops as long as you spend money on a limited edition boxset
Ork player here, we lost our "signature" troops in the form of nobz. Don't be surprised, they want you to play unbound, so that kid that bought 2 riptides, 2 knights and 2 wraithknights has someone to play against.
th3maninblak wrote: Except assault marines are just troops, and nobs were a force org swap.
This. Orks never had Nobz as 'signature' troops. It was a force org swap from a Warlord and to be fair, the only thing close to that (a Force Org swap from a HQ) that remains in the game is Chaos Marines and the Mark dictating whether Berserkers, Plague Marines, T. Sons or Noise Marines are troops. And, to be perfectly fair this has been something of a Chaos staple since their 3rd edition codex (when the force org chart was introduced as what it is to this day). Expecting Nobz to remain troops was a joke and you know it. Anything that became a Force Org swap by taking X or Y that wasn't in existence previously wasn't going to survive to the next codex and you knew it.
Now, Blood Angels having Assault Marines as troops? That wasn't a swap, that was part of the book itself. Look at Troops, see Assault Marines - I doubt GW are so willing to invalidate armies by structure alone. (P.S., look at your old Ork Codex. Nobz are in Elites.)
This. It's gone. Now, the rule where you lose by default if you have nothing on the table is still there...but that's why you take a few squads of footsloggers or some drop pods and keep them safe. Also consider Deep Striking got a lot easier this edition.
Rippy wrote: Posted by Natpri771 in 40k General Discussion:
1. Sanguinary Priests are now HQ choices
2. Death Company are now elites
3. Mephiston is not a lord of war
4. Tactical squads have been beefed up
5. There is a new Blood Angels psychic discipline
6. There is a new Blood Angels force organisation chart, The Baal Strike Force
7. Some new Blood Angels relics and wargear
8. Tycho has not been removed
9. There is a new Blood Angels successor chapter, The Carmine Blades
10. Hopefully, there will be a Flesh Tearers supplement
11. Hopefully, the Wardinator's taint will be removed
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625994.page#7409841
Yuk if true and death company are elites and sang priests are hq feel like that really over loads the elite section and angers me a little what on earth am I going to do with 9 custom made sang priests
Although that sucks about your 9 sang priests, I suspect that taking certain HQ types will unlock elites and make them troops, much te same way as chaos works with marked marines. That is complete speculation though.
Rippy wrote: Posted by Natpri771 in 40k General Discussion:
1. Sanguinary Priests are now HQ choices
2. Death Company are now elites
3. Mephiston is not a lord of war
4. Tactical squads have been beefed up
5. There is a new Blood Angels psychic discipline
6. There is a new Blood Angels force organisation chart, The Baal Strike Force
7. Some new Blood Angels relics and wargear
8. Tycho has not been removed
9. There is a new Blood Angels successor chapter, The Carmine Blades
10. Hopefully, there will be a Flesh Tearers supplement
11. Hopefully, the Wardinator's taint will be removed
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625994.page#7409841
Sigh. Explains the 30 dollar Sanguinary Priest model.
If DC are elites that's going to be interesting...and yet not all that lame given how they couldn't score before, makes sense for them to populate the Elites slot. Now they compete with Dreadnoughts and Terminators, even then it's not really a competition.
natpri771 wrote: I'm afraid it's true. If you look at the blood Angels elite section on the GW site, you will find death company. It looks like they have been nerfed as well. This is bad for my BA army, as I now have to drop my landspeeders and replace them with assault squads which cannot deep strike due to it breaking the 50% rule.
It's a tiny nerf and totally worth it with the point-cost reduction.
They also lost Black Rage and now just have Rage which means they are scoring.
And they are still Troops since Raphen's Death Company are Troops.
DarthOvious wrote: You're serious? You are comparing that you personally don't like the rule changes in a codex is the same equivalent as your car being broke?
metaphor
noun
1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable
Except you called it an analogy earlier on.
Analogy
1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based:
And as pointed out your analogy does not work because you are not the be all and end all of rules design. Just because you don't like the rules then doesn't mean that others don't like them.
you personally think that jump packs are useless without DoA
I said that moving the abilities to randomized warlord traits is bad game design and is unnescesarry. It "making jump packs useless" is an assertion you've made up to fuel your faux outrage.
It certainly was over the DoA rule being taken from the army list and put into war lord traits.
"Anyway, I don't see the point in trying to sugar-coat it. If DoA is a warlord trait, then that sucks. End of. And it's also very likely, considering the trend."
If you are not asserting that this somehow makes jump packs useless to take then on what basis are you able to call this bad rule design?
th3maninblak wrote: Except assault marines are just troops, and nobs were a force org swap.
This. Orks never had Nobz as 'signature' troops. It was a force org swap from a Warlord and to be fair, the only thing close to that (a Force Org swap from a HQ) that remains in the game is Chaos Marines and the Mark dictating whether Berserkers, Plague Marines, T. Sons or Noise Marines are troops. And, to be perfectly fair this has been something of a Chaos staple since their 3rd edition codex (when the force org chart was introduced as what it is to this day). Expecting Nobz to remain troops was a joke and you know it. Anything that became a Force Org swap by taking X or Y that wasn't in existence previously wasn't going to survive to the next codex and you knew it.
Now, Blood Angels having Assault Marines as troops? That wasn't a swap, that was part of the book itself. Look at Troops, see Assault Marines - I doubt GW are so willing to invalidate armies by structure alone. (P.S., look at your old Ork Codex. Nobz are in Elites.) Well according to Forge World assault marines where troops in 30k not now because rowboat changed how it was back in the day
This. It's gone. Now, the rule where you lose by default if you have nothing on the table is still there...but that's why you take a few squads of footsloggers or some drop pods and keep them safe. Also consider Deep Striking got a lot easier this edition.
Rippy wrote: Posted by Natpri771 in 40k General Discussion:
1. Sanguinary Priests are now HQ choices
2. Death Company are now elites
3. Mephiston is not a lord of war
4. Tactical squads have been beefed up
5. There is a new Blood Angels psychic discipline
6. There is a new Blood Angels force organisation chart, The Baal Strike Force
7. Some new Blood Angels relics and wargear
8. Tycho has not been removed
9. There is a new Blood Angels successor chapter, The Carmine Blades
10. Hopefully, there will be a Flesh Tearers supplement
11. Hopefully, the Wardinator's taint will be removed
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625994.page#7409841
Yuk if true and death company are elites and sang priests are hq feel like that really over loads the elite section and angers me a little what on earth am I going to do with 9 custom made sang priests
Although that sucks about your 9 sang priests, I suspect that taking certain HQ types will unlock elites and make them troops, much te same way as chaos works with marked marines. That is complete speculation though.
Yea that will not happen again short of a data slate, Space Wolves could take Wolf Guard as troops last edition as long as Logan was played as well.
Be it they got around that with his formation having 8 Elite slots the Wolf Guard are still not troops.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: There will no doubt be a death company, assault marine and sang guard formation(s) that allow them to be troops
Nope. There's one special detachment and one formation in the book. Go dig about 10-15 pages back and you'll find them mentioned on a screenshot somewhere. IIRC, they were called something like BA Battle Company (the detachment) and BA Strike Force (the formation).
I found it in the itunes webstore and guessed the URL of its larger 960x960 version which I posted here. This screenshot is not confirming Seth and Dante as LoW
Breakingstick has explained it here:
breakingstick wrote: He is a good hand to hand fighter but he is not a lord of war. People are really misunderstanding how the app the works. Since nothing is selected it is not showing a LOW screen. It is showing the two guys that the user has moved into possible use.
Regarding formations, is Shield of Baal III teasered on the last page of the Deathstorm Campaign book like SR III was in Stormclaw?
In regards to the force or swap comments. Space Marine Captains still swap Bikes from fast to troops. (Which would be amazing, and right From GW playbook, if the BA Captain with a jump pack moved Assault Marines from fast to troop.) It would make BA players buy captain models. Something which many didn't do before because he was the worse space marine character out of all of the space marine books, IMO.
Coyote81 wrote: In regards to the force or swap comments. Space Marine Captains still swap Bikes from fast to troops. (Which would be amazing, and right From GW playbook, if the BA Captain with a jump pack moved Assault Marines from fast to troop.) It would make BA players buy captain models. Something which many didn't do before because he was the worse space marine character out of all of the space marine books, IMO.
It'd be nice if that was applied to the BAHQ's in general; i.e. Chaplains, Librarians, Sanguinary Priests (if the rumor is true), and Captains take JPs then ASM's move from FA to Troops. It'd let ASM heavy BA players play the way they wanted to while keeping it fluffy.
BlackRaven1987!! wrote: So has it been confirmed that assault marines will still be a troop choice that is still my biggest fear. All other changes I can deal with but seeing as I don't own a single tactical marine for my blood Angels I would be very upset if all 50 of my assault marines no longer could be troops.
No word yet that I've seen.
So, no new terminator type, but a BA blinged out kit to go with the tactical kit and a new Sang priest kit.
There best be something hidden up their sleeve, or I'm not buying a thing this release. This is looking to be GK level of release ATM, nothing new, some nerfs, some buffs (only DC that's I've seen so far) but nothing particularly interesting. Bleh.
Pretty much my take on it so far. Stuff going through the blanderiser without anything else catching my eye. Terminators still at 40pts per model means I'm not going anywhere near those.
Hopefully there's something exciting to come
Probably i'm on my own here, but doesn't anyone kind of like the thrill or challenge of a new Codex? as long as they keep the soul of our Chapter alive I'm interested to see how the changes make us re-think and battle slightly different in the theater of war. no matter what they do, if you're a BA player you can/will figure out a way to continue using the force in a way that you ENJOY, there will be changes of course but that's the beauty of it I feel, I have lots of Dreadnoughts and fifteen Terminators both units are pretty much useless but yet I still find myself enjoying the times I use them and trying to see what I CAN do with them.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: There will no doubt be a death company, assault marine and sang guard formation(s) that allow them to be troops
More likely a detachment that lets you field a lot more elites or fast attack, but ggives you a different detachment rule than objective secured making it pointless for you to take troops anyway.
Rippy wrote: Posted by Natpri771 in 40k General Discussion:
1. Sanguinary Priests are now HQ choices
2. Death Company are now elites
3. Mephiston is not a lord of war
4. Tactical squads have been beefed up
5. There is a new Blood Angels psychic discipline
6. There is a new Blood Angels force organisation chart, The Baal Strike Force
7. Some new Blood Angels relics and wargear
8. Tycho has not been removed
9. There is a new Blood Angels successor chapter, The Carmine Blades
10. Hopefully, there will be a Flesh Tearers supplement
11. Hopefully, the Wardinator's taint will be removed
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/625994.page#7409841
Yuk if true and death company are elites and sang priests are hq feel like that really over loads the elite section and angers me a little what on earth am I going to do with 9 custom made sang priests
Although that sucks about your 9 sang priests, I suspect that taking certain HQ types will unlock elites and make them troops, much te same way as chaos works with marked marines. That is complete speculation though.
Pretty sure Death Company and the Death Company Dread are not Elites given the icons on the rule sheets from Deathstorm both have the troops triangle icon, and the Terminators have the elites crux terminatus symbol (as they should).
DarthOvious wrote: And as pointed out your analogy does not work because you are not the be all and end all of rules design. Just because you don't like the rules then doesn't mean that others don't like them.
Just because people like them that doesn't make them good, either.
nerdfest09 wrote: Probably i'm on my own here, but doesn't anyone kind of like the thrill or challenge of a new Codex? as long as they keep the soul of our Chapter alive I'm interested to see how the changes make us re-think and battle slightly different in the theater of war. no matter what they do, if you're a BA player you can/will figure out a way to continue using the force in a way that you ENJOY, there will be changes of course but that's the beauty of it I feel, I have lots of Dreadnoughts and fifteen Terminators both units are pretty much useless but yet I still find myself enjoying the times I use them and trying to see what I CAN do with them.
all in all, we just gotta wait and see
That sounds like heresy my friend. Heresy most foul. Are you sure you and your Flesh Eaters are entirely loyal to the Golden Throne?
nerdfest09 wrote: Probably i'm on my own here, but doesn't anyone kind of like the thrill or challenge of a new Codex? as long as they keep the soul of our Chapter alive I'm interested to see how the changes make us re-think and battle slightly different in the theater of war. no matter what they do, if you're a BA player you can/will figure out a way to continue using the force in a way that you ENJOY, there will be changes of course but that's the beauty of it I feel, I have lots of Dreadnoughts and fifteen Terminators both units are pretty much useless but yet I still find myself enjoying the times I use them and trying to see what I CAN do with them.
all in all, we just gotta wait and see
This. Exactly this. I'm all for new strategies and looking at glass half full. The codex is not in my hands yet. I'm ok with army wide DoA going away and I have several iterations of an all jump army (sanguinary guard army, 30 assault marines, 3 different honor guard squads and death company with jump packs). I have a feeling the eponymous warlord trait will be similar to that listed on Captain Karlaen's datasheet from deathstorm (reroll seize initiative and bonus to reserve rolls)
I'm excited to have new kits as I enjoy the collection aspect of the hobby more so than the hard core competitive play scene. Looking forward to Saturday!
th3maninblak wrote: Except assault marines are just troops, and nobs were a force org swap.
This. Orks never had Nobz as 'signature' troops. It was a force org swap from a Warlord and to be fair, the only thing close to that (a Force Org swap from a HQ) that remains in the game is Chaos Marines and the Mark dictating whether Berserkers, Plague Marines, T. Sons or Noise Marines are troops. And, to be perfectly fair this has been something of a Chaos staple since their 3rd edition codex (when the force org chart was introduced as what it is to this day). Expecting Nobz to remain troops was a joke and you know it. Anything that became a Force Org swap by taking X or Y that wasn't in existence previously wasn't going to survive to the next codex and you knew it.
Now, Blood Angels having Assault Marines as troops? That wasn't a swap, that was part of the book itself. Look at Troops, see Assault Marines - I doubt GW are so willing to invalidate armies by structure alone. (P.S., look at your old Ork Codex. Nobz are in Elites.)
Wow, someone is getting EXTREMELY defensive and hostile. Speaking of things you knew, you must suspect in your heart that jump troops are going to be fast attack only, barring some special leader shenanigans. Or I doubt you would be this mad.
This. It's gone. Now, the rule where you lose by default if you have nothing on the table is still there...but that's why you take a few squads of footsloggers or some drop pods and keep them safe. Also consider Deep Striking got a lot easier this edition.
Considering there aren't any Stormtalons (or Centurions for that matter) in any of the army pictures (where the yet to be announced terminator and librarian kit can be seen), I wouldn't hold my breath for them.
I am going to steal a head out of the Tactical Squad box for my Sanguinary Priest. I really don't care for the Pumpkin-Pie haircut all the BAs with no helmets have.
its a kitbash similar to those in the other paint guides. The space wolves one had a sven bloodhowl kitbash. the Dark Eldar one had vraesque malidrach. They were both generic HQs.
Taffy17 wrote: its a kitbash similar to those in the other paint guides. The space wolves one had a sven bloodhowl kitbash. the Dark Eldar one had vraesque malidrach. They were both generic HQs.
I think they're just for inspiration.
Yeah, but in terms of artwork to kitbash. Nailed it.
I actually have an inkling it is done the other way round.
They make up a HQ and build the artwork off of that. It's a bit convenient that they can kit bash a model and match it so closely to all the detail of the artwork from just plastic kit parts, without greenstuff.
Wow, someone is getting EXTREMELY defensive and hostile. Speaking of things you knew, you must suspect in your heart that jump troops are going to be fast attack only, barring some special leader shenanigans. Or I doubt you would be this mad.
Mad? No, I just tend to not cry doom and make comparisons that didn't really exist in the first place. Suspect we'll be keep our jump packs - considering they were blatantly put in the Troops section - i.e. not a force org swap like Ork Nobz or Tervigons. But I do very much suspect that DoA, being a trait now will make the jump army far less reliable than it previously was and that's something we're going to have to live with.
Eldercaveman wrote: So is the Captain Aphael and Honour Guard kit bashed, or new kits?
Guy on the left looks like he's taken one too many punches to the head, he should probably put his helmet back on lest he suffer more brain damage and lose more teeth... (God the fangs look terrible from a distance)
Red Marine wrote: Ive only read about fifty pages of this thread. What talk has there been about chapter tactics? Looks like just FC. Any other clues?
No Chapter Tactics, since the book isn't a Supplement for Codex: Space Marines. All the rumblings point to army-wide Furious Charge, with no mention of DoA beyond Warlord traits. I'd imagine the book will, like the DE, GK, and SW books, largely rely on the use of a codex-specific Detachment to give you that feel you want, in exchange for losing ObSec.
But it's cool. I'll still run over fools with Baal Predators and light them up with Furiosos. I hope my precious frag cannons don't suddenly suck.
DarthOvious wrote: And as pointed out your analogy does not work because you are not the be all and end all of rules design. Just because you don't like the rules then doesn't mean that others don't like them.
Just because people like them that doesn't make them good, either.
So i played through all 3 scenarios in the deathstorm box yesterday, and i learned a couple key things.
1- the scenarios are an absolute blast. I suggest that everyone who gets it plays through at least once.
2- death company are awesome. Losing ws5 sucks, but having a 3 attack base sgt with a thunder hammer and rage is sweet.
3- the death company dread is still a murder machine. 6 str10 ap2 shred attacks on the charge gets stuff done in a hurry. The move through cover on magna grapples is hot.
4- captain Korlean is a boss. Decent survivability, solid combat capabilities with master crafted+furious charge+ counter attack, and a great warlord trait make him fantastic when combined with his low cost.
5- the formation is actually VERY strong. Fearless on the whole detachment (and counter attack for the death company) is very strong. Bloody toll is also awesome.
Ugly Green Trog wrote: As to the unusual state of banners on termies I'm wondering if we'll see terminator honour guard, would explain the banners anyway.
Extremely unlikely. Then you'd need a terminator Apothecary/sang priest (no model AFAIK) and a whole extra unit entry. That said, I'd love some Dark Angel-esque banners.
More likely it's just a 25-50 point option for your terminator squad and gives +1 attack or LD rerolls and combat resolution bonus.
The only space marine banners worth using ATM are Dark Angels Devastation banner I think.
th3maninblak wrote: So i played through all 3 scenarios in the deathstorm box yesterday, and i learned a couple key things.
1- the scenarios are an absolute blast. I suggest that everyone who gets it plays through at least once.
2- death company are awesome. Losing ws5 sucks, but having a 3 attack base sgt with a thunder hammer and rage is sweet.
3- the death company dread is still a murder machine. 6 str10 ap2 shred attacks on the charge gets stuff done in a hurry. The move through cover on magna grapples is hot.
4- captain Korlean is a boss. Decent survivability, solid combat capabilities with master crafted+furious charge+ counter attack, and a great warlord trait make him fantastic when combined with his low cost.
5- the formation is actually VERY strong. Fearless on the whole detachment (and counter attack for the death company) is very strong. Bloody toll is also awesome.
I'd argue that ATSNNF is actually better than fearless and kinda voids the detachments unique rules although counter attack is handy.
Banners are more of a fluff thing. I look forward to including them in my Ultramarines 3rd Company and the Blood Angels 1st, no matter what bonus they give.
But there was a rumor, and I can't for the life of me remember where I read it so take it with many grains of salt, but it was attributed to Faeit 212 that a new box of dual purpose Termies was inbound. Death Company or Honor Guard box set. Sorry I can't cite the source though.
In 6th edition youd be right. But in 7th with the slight nerf to ATSKNF and the much increased power of pinning weapons, fearless pulls out ahead. Particularly when playing an army that needs to stay mobile.
th3maninblak wrote: So i played through all 3 scenarios in the deathstorm box yesterday, and i learned a couple key things.
1- the scenarios are an absolute blast. I suggest that everyone who gets it plays through at least once.
2- death company are awesome. Losing ws5 sucks, but having a 3 attack base sgt with a thunder hammer and rage is sweet.
3- the death company dread is still a murder machine. 6 str10 ap2 shred attacks on the charge gets stuff done in a hurry. The move through cover on magna grapples is hot.
4- captain Korlean is a boss. Decent survivability, solid combat capabilities with master crafted+furious charge+ counter attack, and a great warlord trait make him fantastic when combined with his low cost.
5- the formation is actually VERY strong. Fearless on the whole detachment (and counter attack for the death company) is very strong. Bloody toll is also awesome.
Yea this Box was well worth the money.
The art/ the stories/ the detachments are pretty cool. Also since I play nids , the Broodlord model is just awesome. so awesome in fact that I cant believe it will be a one off model. Once I built the captain I was actually pretty happy with him. I'm going to start painting him up tonight.
The second box only cost me $50.00 after selling the extra rule/campaign book and a couple models I didn't need seconds of such as the captain. couldn't be happier
And as pointed out your analogy does not work because you are not the be all and end all of rules design.
That's ridiculous. What does "be all end all of game design" even mean?
DarthOvious wrote: Just because you don't like the rules then doesn't mean that others don't like them.
Find a single instance of me criticizing someone for liking the rumored changes.
t'was you who jumped up my ass for criticizing the rumored changes, not the other way around. I don't give a gak if people like or don't like what they're hearing about the codex. You've already pre-ordered 50 copies of the codex and 80 blood angels tactical kits? Good for you.
If you are not asserting that this somehow makes jump packs useless to take then on what basis are you able to call this bad rule design?
So you admit that I never made that assertion and that you're putting words in my mouth. I accept your concession then. Not a good practice, my friend.
This is what I meant by it being bad game design:
BlaxicanX wrote: Nothing says "balance" and "forge the narrative" like your list working in randomly different ways every game unless you take a specific SC.
protip: you should read an entire conversation before jumping into it.
To the people arguing in this thread, this is why we can't have nice rumour threads. Behave or its going to have to go away, along with people who cross the lines of politeness or dakka's other rules
Pro tip. If someone is figuratively jumping up your ass, it generally means they're agreeing with you or just giving you compliments to the point where it's over the top.
The phrase you were looking for is "jumped down my throat"
The leaked pictures a few pages back showed librarians at 65 points and what may be captains at 90. So earlier assumptions that we'll be getting point adjustments down to space marine levels seem to be correct.
The leaked pictures a few pages back showed librarians at 65 points and what may be captains at 90. So earlier assumptions that we'll be getting point adjustments down to space marine levels seem to be correct.
DarthOvious wrote: And as pointed out your analogy does not work because you are not the be all and end all of rules design. Just because you don't like the rules then doesn't mean that others don't like them.
Just because people like them that doesn't make them good, either.
But you aren't a reasonable person to listen to when determining if an army is good...
th3maninblak wrote: So i played through all 3 scenarios in the deathstorm box yesterday, and i learned a couple key things.
1- the scenarios are an absolute blast. I suggest that everyone who gets it plays through at least once.
2- death company are awesome. Losing ws5 sucks, but having a 3 attack base sgt with a thunder hammer and rage is sweet.
3- the death company dread is still a murder machine. 6 str10 ap2 shred attacks on the charge gets stuff done in a hurry. The move through cover on magna grapples is hot.
4- captain Korlean is a boss. Decent survivability, solid combat capabilities with master crafted+furious charge+ counter attack, and a great warlord trait make him fantastic when combined with his low cost.
5- the formation is actually VERY strong. Fearless on the whole detachment (and counter attack for the death company) is very strong. Bloody toll is also awesome.
Thanks for this, man. Nice to get some real feedback on what it looks like on the tabletop. The info about the viability of the DC and Dread is also very reassuring. That's one part of the fluff that I am looking forward to getting back into.
DarthOvious wrote: And as pointed out your analogy does not work because you are not the be all and end all of rules design. Just because you don't like the rules then doesn't mean that others don't like them.
Just because people like them that doesn't make them good, either.
But you aren't a reasonable person to listen to when determining if an army is good...
So 30 dudes with rage and thunder hammers is... 150 str9 ap2 attacks on the charge? Nah, thats not overkill at all. You might need to kill a squadron of reaver titans some day.
th3maninblak wrote: So i played through all 3 scenarios in the deathstorm box yesterday, and i learned a couple key things.
1- the scenarios are an absolute blast. I suggest that everyone who gets it plays through at least once.
2- death company are awesome. Losing ws5 sucks, but having a 3 attack base sgt with a thunder hammer and rage is sweet.
3- the death company dread is still a murder machine. 6 str10 ap2 shred attacks on the charge gets stuff done in a hurry. The move through cover on magna grapples is hot.
4- captain Korlean is a boss. Decent survivability, solid combat capabilities with master crafted+furious charge+ counter attack, and a great warlord trait make him fantastic when combined with his low cost.
5- the formation is actually VERY strong. Fearless on the whole detachment (and counter attack for the death company) is very strong. Bloody toll is also awesome.
So did the non-marine player enjoy the scenarios? Quite often they have a different opinion.
And as pointed out your analogy does not work because you are not the be all and end all of rules design.
That's ridiculous. What does "be all end all of game design" even mean?
All I'm asking for is that you don't state your personal opinion as fact. That is all. I'm not having a go at you although you seem to think I am. I understand it's difficult to read someones mood over the internet.
DarthOvious wrote: Just because you don't like the rules then doesn't mean that others don't like them.
Find a single instance of me criticizing someone for liking the rumored changes.
Now it's you giving out strawmen. I never said that you criticized someone for liking the rumoured changes, what I said is that you were arguing your personal opinion into fact when that is clearly not the case.
t'was you who jumped up my ass for criticizing the rumored changes, not the other way around. I don't give a gak if people like or don't like what they're hearing about the codex. You've already pre-ordered 50 copies of the codex and 80 blood angels tactical kits? Good for you.
You argued with troa over the rule changes but it was the way you argued though. You tried to make it sound like these changes to the rules were like a broken car and I just pointed out that your personal opinion does not make it fact. A broken car is obviously broken and needs fixed. A rule change in a game can't be determined in such a manner. I also acknowledged that you didn't like the change and that was fine but don't try to make out that this is objectively bad or anything. Please I understand that you don't like the change, even though we don't have the codex yet. That I have no problem with.
If you are not asserting that this somehow makes jump packs useless to take then on what basis are you able to call this bad rule design?
So you admit that I never made that assertion and that you're putting words in my mouth. I accept your concession then. Not a good practice, my friend.
You are avoiding the question. Why is it bad rule design? If it doesn't make taking jump packs invalid then why is it a bad rule?
This is what I meant by it being bad game design:
BlaxicanX wrote: Nothing says "balance" and "forge the narrative" like your list working in randomly different ways every game unless you take a specific SC.
protip: you should read an entire conversation before jumping into it.
I've been reading the whole thread, however you put a strawman up from my arguments. Please can you answer the question. Why is this bad rule design? Does it invalidate taking jump packs in any manner? Why is it an issue to balance? Sounds to me like you are saying that moving DoA into a warlord trait does affect the balance of the list. So how does it affect the balance of the list?
I'm not asking for much here, just a reasoned argument.
EDIT: Edited in response to the moderators requests to be more polite.
th3maninblak wrote: So 30 dudes with rage and thunder hammers is... 150 str9 ap2 attacks on the charge? Nah, thats not overkill at all. You might need to kill a squadron of reaver titans some day.
I'd go for a unit of fifteen with jump packs myself. 75 attacks should be good for killing just about anything I want.
th3maninblak wrote: So 30 dudes with rage and thunder hammers is... 150 str9 ap2 attacks on the charge? Nah, thats not overkill at all. You might need to kill a squadron of reaver titans some day.
I'd go for a unit of fifteen with jump packs myself. 75 attacks should be good for killing just about anything I want.
If you do DC Dual Thunder Hammers, Do it right! 30 man no less!
th3maninblak wrote: So 30 dudes with rage and thunder hammers is... 150 str9 ap2 attacks on the charge? Nah, thats not overkill at all. You might need to kill a squadron of reaver titans some day.
I'd go for a unit of fifteen with jump packs myself. 75 attacks should be good for killing just about anything I want.
If you do DC Dual Thunder Hammers, Do it right! 30 man no less!
th3maninblak wrote: So 30 dudes with rage and thunder hammers is... 150 str9 ap2 attacks on the charge? Nah, thats not overkill at all. You might need to kill a squadron of reaver titans some day.
I'd go for a unit of fifteen with jump packs myself. 75 attacks should be good for killing just about anything I want.
If you do DC Dual Thunder Hammers, Do it right! 30 man no less!
Got mine this morning direct from GW (was expecting them to sell out otherwise would have used Wayland Games - £60 instead of £75).
I used the 'free' postage rather than pay extra for express or whatever it's called - feel sorry for those that paid extra for upgraded postage!!
Taffy17 wrote: its a kitbash similar to those in the other paint guides. The space wolves one had a sven bloodhowl kitbash. the Dark Eldar one had vraesque malidrach. They were both generic HQs.
I think they're just for inspiration.
Yeah, but in terms of artwork to kitbash. Nailed it.
Bit late reply although its not even 24hours later. Their all really good kit bashes in the Paint Guides
Not much out there in terms of rumors on BA in my opinion. I was hoping to hear about any possible changes to Dante by now. Axe Mortalis will become a Relic so I was crossing my fingers on it striking at normal initiative again. Plus I know EW isn't given out much anymore but I was praying to Sanguinius for 1100 year old Dante to get it.
So, like I figured, I checked Ebay and assclowns have put up multiples of the Psychic/Tactical cards and the BA dice for 50%-100% increased prices, and GW is sold out, - sometimes I really fething hate people.
On a happier note, I watched a Spike Bits review of Deathstorm, and I'm pretty excited about it. Hell, I don't go for the 'extras' like the campaign books normally, but I might go for it and get them.
th3maninblak wrote: So i played through all 3 scenarios in the deathstorm box yesterday, and i learned a couple key things.
1- the scenarios are an absolute blast. I suggest that everyone who gets it plays through at least once.
2- death company are awesome. Losing ws5 sucks, but having a 3 attack base sgt with a thunder hammer and rage is sweet.
3- the death company dread is still a murder machine. 6 str10 ap2 shred attacks on the charge gets stuff done in a hurry. The move through cover on magna grapples is hot.
4- captain Korlean is a boss. Decent survivability, solid combat capabilities with master crafted+furious charge+ counter attack, and a great warlord trait make him fantastic when combined with his low cost.
5- the formation is actually VERY strong. Fearless on the whole detachment (and counter attack for the death company) is very strong. Bloody toll is also awesome.
Yea this Box was well worth the money.
The art/ the stories/ the detachments are pretty cool. Also since I play nids , the Broodlord model is just awesome. so awesome in fact that I cant believe it will be a one off model. Once I built the captain I was actually pretty happy with him. I'm going to start painting him up tonight.
The second box only cost me $50.00 after selling the extra rule/campaign book and a couple models I didn't need seconds of such as the captain. couldn't be happier
Thanks for the feedback. I was debating whether or not I wanted to pick up the new boxed set. However since I play Tyranids and have some Blood Angels already, this is actually a pretty nice complement for me.
th3maninblak wrote: So i played through all 3 scenarios in the deathstorm box yesterday, and i learned a couple key things.
1- the scenarios are an absolute blast. I suggest that everyone who gets it plays through at least once.
2- death company are awesome. Losing ws5 sucks, but having a 3 attack base sgt with a thunder hammer and rage is sweet.
3- the death company dread is still a murder machine. 6 str10 ap2 shred attacks on the charge gets stuff done in a hurry. The move through cover on magna grapples is hot.
4- captain Korlean is a boss. Decent survivability, solid combat capabilities with master crafted+furious charge+ counter attack, and a great warlord trait make him fantastic when combined with his low cost.
5- the formation is actually VERY strong. Fearless on the whole detachment (and counter attack for the death company) is very strong. Bloody toll is also awesome.
Crimson Devil wrote:So did the non-marine player enjoy the scenarios? Quite often they have a different opinion.
th3maninblak wrote:He enjoyed it as much, if not more, than i did.
Interesting.
How was mission balance?
Would you say either side could have won each mission?
In your games who won each mission?
th3maninblak wrote: So 30 dudes with rage and thunder hammers is... 150 str9 ap2 attacks on the charge? Nah, thats not overkill at all. You might need to kill a squadron of reaver titans some day.
I'd go for a unit of fifteen with jump packs myself. 75 attacks should be good for killing just about anything I want.
Both squads would be pretty screwed if they ran into 12 Death Cult Assassins with some priests to back them up and maybe an inquisitor to throw Rad Grenades, or really any squad that can make AP3 swings at initiative.
On Warseer Iuchiban with the codex is posting the new rules.
I compiled them and edited some spelling mistakes
Iuchiban
Hi guys, I got already my copy of the new codex! Feel free to ask me any questions!!
There has been a rumour of Death Company having access to Terminator armour.
Can you confirm or deny?
No terminator armour for DC. But there are good news, Jump packs are now only +3 points. On the other hand their WS has been downgraded to 4.
What are the troop choices ?
Only troop choices are Tactical squads and scouts.
New units, centurions, storm talons etc?
No new units. No Centurions and no talons.
Dantes Axe is +2S, AP2, mastercraft and NOT unwieldy. BTW he is now eternal warrior
Chalice gives +1WS
Some changes are:
- Death Company is now elite as DC dreadnought
- Predator Baal is Heavy Support
- Librarian Dreadnought is HQ
- Mephiston is HQ and IC
- All units have now Furious Charge
No squadrons for Dreads. "Standard" dreads are now Elite, Furiosos and DC dreads too. Librarian dreads are HQ.
1. Vanguard Veterans cannot charge after DS 2. Only rule is combat squads
3. As I see in the pictures of the codex there is nothing coming after the terminator kit. Librarian is separate.
Warlord traits are:
1. Warlod gets Rampage
2. Warlord gets +1 I
3. One warlord's weapong gets mastercrafted
4. Warlord gets Adamantium will
5. Warlord gets Descent of the Angles (Dante's trait)
6. 12" fearless bubble
What options do tactical squads have? As usual, or only the options that come in the new tactical squad kit (e.g. only heavy flamer or heavy bolter for heavy weapons)?
As usual + new options. They can get anti-air missiles BTW. And no more LR as dedicated transports for everybody, just for termies.
Physic powers are:
Primaris: Blessing. +D3 to A and I to psyker or target character at 12"
1. Malediction. Target unit at 12" takes a Moral test with -2
2. Blessing. Target unit at 18" gets Rage. If they had already that rule, they get +1A instead
3. Blessing. Psyker and his unit get 5++
4. Focussed witch fire. Target makes 2 T tests. Take one W for each failed test. If targed dies, place 5" blast with S4 and AP5.
5. Beam.12" S8, AP1 Lance
6"Blessing. Targe infantry unit, moves 12" in the psychic phase. No charging after this movement.
Fast vehicles are:
Rhinos, Razorbacks and Baal Predators
Special rules for DC: FC, Fearless, Relentless, FnP, Rage. They cannot reroll to wound if chaplain in the unit. Only Astorath gives them this ability.
Detachment is nice:
Mandatory 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops
Optional: as usual, but 3 additioanl Elite (Total 4)
Special rule: +1I when charging, all the army, any turn.
Mephiston has chaged a lot:
WSBS S T W I A L A
6 5 5 5 3 5 4 10 2+
Warlord trait: Adamantium will
Lvl 3
Special rules: FC, IC, Fleet, No Fear, Hypnotic Trance: Roll 2D6 if fighting in a challenge: If result is the L of the opponent or more, Mephiston hits on 2+.
Has one unique power: Blessing, he gets S10.
His sword is AP3
Cost: XXX
Sanguinor pretty the same but: gets only 4++, re-rolls to hit and wound in challenges
Sanguinary Priests are HQ, XX points and units he joins get +1WS and FnP. The are ICbtw.
either that or it's an Alpha legion disguised as a blood angel with ultramarine symbols to try and get them fighting each other
x 
= 
! So awesome. Thanks for sharing!
