Xenomancers wrote: The void dragon looks kind of OP. Max 3 damage per phase and it has character protection. Is the nocrodermis on all ctans? If that is the case its gonna be hard not to take at least 1 in your list.
All have necrodermis but no confirmation he's a character at present.
Are Ctan characters right now?
Ctans were characters in 8th, and they still are in 9th. Unless the codex changes it.
Yes. Ain't it funny coincidence this comes with new codex.
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Bosskelot wrote: People saying the ability is worthless on multiwound models are also exposing their balls and inability to understand how 40k works.
It doesn't matter if old-RP meant a Destroyer could get back up on one 5+ if you were never making that dice roll in the first place. Actively getting chances to resurrect models after attacks still increases the survivability of units to a really high degree because every saved ones leads to more models subsequent units have to chew through which also leads to more RP rolls.
Is it as strong as a traditional FNP? Of course not, but to call it worse than the 8th edition rule is pure comedy.
The times you weren't rolling in 8e are generally the times you won't be rolling in 9e either. When you are rolling in 9e are when you were most likely rolling for 8e.
The rule as is isn't really improvement. Sidestep and still forgeatable rule. 8e only times I really rolled it was for lychguard and destroyers. Now it's useless for those and 1w infantry still gets no big improvement(maybe 4-5 gets back before unit is dead)
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Mixzremixzd wrote: That's why I said "but let's not blow this outta proportion without seeing if those units have been hit with a big RP tax.".
Pitchforks and complain after you have the relevant information, not before.
They always have been. Unlikely GW will drop necron prices with new codex after making fuss about how they increased points to reduce model count...
Question then for those concerned cause I'm interested. Assuming Lychguard stay at 30ppm, Praetorians at 23 and Skorpekhs at 40, would you consider it too expensive based "solely" on the new RP?
Are you hoping that these units go down in cost or are you worried that GW would mark them up?
If it goes up I groan. RP won't help all that much if any and they are already expensive.
Especially skorpek's would be nerfed with price hike. RP is equally non-existant rule for them 8e or 9e so price hike is just nerf.
Praetorians ditto. Only lychguard I could see actually benefit from RP with shields and cryptek for 4+ RP as they are tough enough single unit isn't most likely to remove.
Problem is price hike would criple warscythe variant unless gw finally abandons idea equipment is equal price...
I really think for me it depends on what the competing units look like in other armies; if there is a general trend to more expensive units in other factions (which I suspect might be the case? Certainly seems to be some noise that is what will happen with SM), broadly I'm fine with our units staying static or coming down only a smidge. My gut feel is that basic troops should stay at about the same and the currently more expensive units come down a touch (all relatively).
Yeah, we certainly are missing a lot of information. But really, what was Games workshop expecting when they previewed the rule on its own in such a way to begin with. I'd imagine from what I've been hearing they'll be pushing more context of how RP works to today to clarify it for people.
+1 and a re-roll on Reanimation is a significant boost, no?
Until we’ve the Codex in hand, and a chance to digest it, people are jumping the gun somewhat.
Plus a few are jumping that RP is the only good element to necron units and are ignoring their potential to perform outside of reanimation chances. Which is a very one dimensional way to look at the army. Granted RP is one of the few major rules we are aware of at this stage, but we have to remember its not the only rule in the book. Necron units do more than just die and come back to life.
Plus don't forget most armies are getting point increases, GW has been very open that 9th edition is them reigning in some of the army size elements for a 2K game (since that's the default standard many aim for). Basically aiming to reduce model load a bit. It's part of a balancing act around 2K as that's what the market seems to gravitate toward in general; GW has to balance their desire to sell models; Gamers desire to collect models with peoples desire to build new armies and get to that 2K point without being overwhelmed.
So yes expect point increases, but remember that that goes alongside other armies also getting them steadily through 9th edition.
Hopefully we'll get one or two more leaks in the run up which can give people something else to sink their teeth into besides RP
Darsath wrote: Yeah, we certainly are missing a lot of information. But really, what was Games workshop expecting when they previewed the rule on its own in such a way to begin with. I'd imagine from what I've been hearing they'll be pushing more context of how RP works to today to clarify it for people.
Uuh this is standard for GW. They never reveal everything at once
Plus don't forget most armies are getting point increases, GW has been very open that 9th edition is them reigning in some of the army size elements for a 2K game (since that's the default standard many aim for). Basically aiming to reduce model load a bit. It's part of a balancing act around 2K as that's what the market seems to gravitate toward in general; GW has to balance their desire to sell models; Gamers desire to collect models with peoples desire to build new armies and get to that 2K point without being overwhelmed.
So yes expect point increases, but remember that that goes alongside other armies also getting them steadily through 9th edition.
Hopefully we'll get one or two more leaks in the run up which can give people something else to sink their teeth into besides RP
We got point increases. Don't expect more just for sake of point increases.
Also while hoping not the case...last time we got point increases start of edition the points started going DOWN from first codex onward.
Mixzremixzd wrote: Question then for those concerned cause I'm interested. Assuming Lychguard stay at 30ppm, Praetorians at 23 and Skorpekhs at 40, would you consider it too expensive based "solely" on the new RP?
Are you hoping that these units go down in cost or are you worried that GW would mark them up?
Praetorians won't stay at their currenct cost since they had heavy damage output enhancements
For me, my core choices are always going to be Warriors and Immortals.
With Immortals going back to T5, they’re getting a decent whack of extra resilience against most small arms fire, such as Bolters and other S4 goodies, and to a lesser degree against S5.
Add in RP, and their 3+ save, and they become more difficult to get off the board.
We’ll also need to consider our own damage output in a turn, and that will of course fluctuate from army to army, based on what the player has included.
Let’s look at the Monolith, and arm it with Death Rays.
That.....that’s a lot of damage potential. Decent strength, fair number of shots, solid AP and, crucially, reliable Damage. With a fair wind and only slightly jammy dice, there’s not a great many vehicles that can soak enough to stay on the board.
And reliable Damage on our heavy weapons does kind of look to be the norm, when we look at the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer.
3D3 damage is quite nice - especially if we can take that bugger in squadrons (I don’t recall seeing confirmation either way, but may simply have missed it).
So, from admittedly restricted amounts of info, it looks like we’ll be quite well placed to be a frustrating foe. Anything we aim at is in for a rough time, and RP gives us a leg up in terms of attrition, should our big guns fluff it in a given turn.
I find it rather obvious, too, that necrons will still get their old RP in 9th; and everyone Seams to be discounting it.
That is to say I’d your warriors get shot up and end the turn eith 12 models left you’ll then, on you’re turn, get to use rights of reanimation to fire off 8 dice to bring yourself up to par.
This will also help out destroyers, etc.
Furthermore, as mentioned by a few, the more complex setup for RP leaves them tons of knobs to address its relative power. Adding dice to the pool, being able to store models for a future set of RP dice pool generation, etc.
This RP is, quite frankly, brilliant. It makes RP what it kind of is: FNP...yet preserves the theme extremely well.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: For me, my core choices are always going to be Warriors and Immortals.
With Immortals going back to T5, they’re getting a decent whack of extra resilience against most small arms fire, such as Bolters and other S4 goodies, and to a lesser degree against S5.
Add in RP, and their 3+ save, and they become more difficult to get off the board.
We’ll also need to consider our own damage output in a turn, and that will of course fluctuate from army to army, based on what the player has included.
Let’s look at the Monolith, and arm it with Death Rays.
That.....that’s a lot of damage potential. Decent strength, fair number of shots, solid AP and, crucially, reliable Damage. With a fair wind and only slightly jammy dice, there’s not a great many vehicles that can soak enough to stay on the board.
And reliable Damage on our heavy weapons does kind of look to be the norm, when we look at the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer.
3D3 damage is quite nice - especially if we can take that bugger in squadrons (I don’t recall seeing confirmation either way, but may simply have missed it).
So, from admittedly restricted amounts of info, it looks like we’ll be quite well placed to be a frustrating foe. Anything we aim at is in for a rough time, and RP gives us a leg up in terms of attrition, should our big guns fluff it in a given turn.
3 heavy destroyers with a lord is over 300 points, it's landing 12 wounds on most vehicles without an invuln which is nice but that's a hefty investment compared to the 9th ed bad boys of the eradicators who almost double that almost with character support for equal points in metla range or beat it by 2 outside of melta.
Breaking it down into clear steps is also a nice move toward GW perhaps taking more attention to abilities. I think 8th edition started to show to them that even when they had an ability that was clearly set out; the lack of specific ordered wording in the ability or other areas of the game; resulted in confusion from players because bits were assumed or missing from stages.
Or its a case like damage rolls that everyone rolls them together which works 99.9% of the time then for one ability it breaks because that ability needed you to roll one at a time not all at once.
So hopefully it might be a positive sign of an attitude change from GW toward how they write rules.
3 heavy destroyers with a lord is over 300 points, it's landing 12 wounds on most vehicles without an invuln which is nice but that's a hefty investment compared to the 9th ed bad boys of the eradicators who almost double that almost with character support for equal points in metla range or beat it by 2 outside of melta.
Are they 300 points though? We simply do not know that at this time, because we’re getting an entirely new Codex in a few days.
Nor do we know what we might get to spend our CPs on.
You’re also working solely on averages, which is something I always disagree with. Instead, look at the range of possible outcomes. Those three Heavy Destroyers, maxing out, have the potential to drop an Imperial Knight in a single fusillade.
Then there’s supporting fire. If these guys can do the legwork (hover platform work?), then we still have options to make whatever it is we want dead, dead. And every unit we can annihilate is one less to shoot back.
Bitharne wrote: I find it rather obvious, too, that necrons will still get their old RP in 9th; and everyone Seams to be discounting it.
That is to say I’d your warriors get shot up and end the turn eith 12 models left you’ll then, on you’re turn, get to use rights of reanimation to fire off 8 dice to bring yourself up to par.
Bitharne wrote: I find it rather obvious, too, that necrons will still get their old RP in 9th; and everyone Seams to be discounting it.
That is to say I’d your warriors get shot up and end the turn eith 12 models left you’ll then, on you’re turn, get to use rights of reanimation to fire off 8 dice to bring yourself up to par.
Uuuuh based on....what?
Sorry no. RP got changed. Accept it.
Whilst it does remain to be seen exactly what buffs are available, and how they work, we can reasonably predict they’ll exist.
One we do know of is the Canoptek Reanimator. That allows us to select one Dynasty unit in our command phase, and add 1 to RP rolls for that unit until our next command phase.
That’s actually rather saucy, as even if the Reanimator gets wrecked during our opponents turn, we still get the benefit of its buff.
Bitharne wrote: I find it rather obvious, too, that necrons will still get their old RP in 9th; and everyone Seams to be discounting it.
That is to say I’d your warriors get shot up and end the turn eith 12 models left you’ll then, on you’re turn, get to use rights of reanimation to fire off 8 dice to bring yourself up to par.
Uuuuh based on....what?
Sorry no. RP got changed. Accept it.
Whilst it does remain to be seen exactly what buffs are available, and how they work, we can reasonably predict they’ll exist.
One we do know of is the Canoptek Reanimator. That allows us to select one Dynasty unit in our command phase, and add 1 to RP rolls for that unit until our next command phase.
That’s actually rather saucy, as even if the Reanimator gets wrecked during our opponents turn, we still get the benefit of its buff.
Actually the Reanimator still has to survive and remain with 9" of the unit in order for it to benefit from the +1
Currently, at least. Obviously the codex wording could be different
Bitharne wrote: I find it rather obvious, too, that necrons will still get their old RP in 9th; and everyone Seams to be discounting it.
That is to say I’d your warriors get shot up and end the turn eith 12 models left you’ll then, on you’re turn, get to use rights of reanimation to fire off 8 dice to bring yourself up to par.
Uuuuh based on....what?
Sorry no. RP got changed. Accept it.
Whilst it does remain to be seen exactly what buffs are available, and how they work, we can reasonably predict they’ll exist.
One we do know of is the Canoptek Reanimator. That allows us to select one Dynasty unit in our command phase, and add 1 to RP rolls for that unit until our next command phase.
That’s actually rather saucy, as even if the Reanimator gets wrecked during our opponents turn, we still get the benefit of its buff.
As someone suggested before, we just need the Reanimator to go down in points and the ability to be taken in squadrons. Then they could honestly be a very valuable/usable supporting unit.
Squadrons, or at least 1-3 etc per slot I agree with. That way we should be able to field a few, and really brace for first or second turn carnage.
We may also bank on our opponents aiming to dismantle our buff providers ASAP. This means we can, potentially, channel their early shooting and combat phases to our advantage.
That first turn out the way, it’s on us to be smart about what we’re targeting in the enemy turn. Because once we swing attrition our way, our opponents may well seriously struggle.
The reanimators core issue is that it has a potentially powerful rule that makes it an almost nightmare to properly balance and point accurately. It's funny in that in making this new RP rule they've solved that issue that used to plague RP as a rule, only to make a specific unit that suffers the same sort of problem.
With its terrible statline the only thing that really makes sense is if the Nanoscarab Beam rule is actually an aura, rather than a targeted ability, because otherwise I have no idea how to make the unit work. I suppose with sufficient obscuring cover you can weather turn 1 shooting (if you didn't get first turn) without the RP buff it provides and so maybe that's the conditions it's been playtested and designed with in mind.
I'm hoping that "Living Metal" will allow multi-wound Necrons to always be considered "Reanimating" so that even after it fails on RP roll it can still roll next attack too.
Bitharne wrote: I find it rather obvious, too, that necrons will still get their old RP in 9th; and everyone Seams to be discounting it.
That is to say I’d your warriors get shot up and end the turn eith 12 models left you’ll then, on you’re turn, get to use rights of reanimation to fire off 8 dice to bring yourself up to par.
Uuuuh based on....what?
Sorry no. RP got changed. Accept it.
Whilst it does remain to be seen exactly what buffs are available, and how they work, we can reasonably predict they’ll exist.
One we do know of is the Canoptek Reanimator. That allows us to select one Dynasty unit in our command phase, and add 1 to RP rolls for that unit until our next command phase.
That’s actually rather saucy, as even if the Reanimator gets wrecked during our opponents turn, we still get the benefit of its buff.
Unless rules change a) it needs to stay alive b) it's useless on turn 1 if opponent goes first. Also you need to know in advance which unit to buff which hurts. Enemy has following options to bybass the buff:
a) simply wipe out unit in one go. Plenty of units that can still do that. No RP b) kill the reanimator. It's super soft target.
c) simply shoot another unit. There's unit of warrior buffed? Shoot at the other one. Rarely opponent can do neither a nor b AND there's unit that just needs to be killed rather than the other.
Lord Clinto wrote: I'm hoping that "Living Metal" will allow multi-wound Necrons to always be considered "Reanimating" so that even after it fails on RP roll it can still roll next attack too.
I would expect something more akin to the various healer rules in other codexes:
If there is a wounded model in this unit, it recovers X wounds, otherwise you can return one destroyed model to the unit with X wounds.
Bosskelot wrote: The reanimators core issue is that it has a potentially powerful rule that makes it an almost nightmare to properly balance and point accurately. It's funny in that in making this new RP rule they've solved that issue that used to plague RP as a rule, only to make a specific unit that suffers the same sort of problem.
With its terrible statline the only thing that really makes sense is if the Nanoscarab Beam rule is actually an aura, rather than a targeted ability, because otherwise I have no idea how to make the unit work. I suppose with sufficient obscuring cover you can weather turn 1 shooting (if you didn't get first turn) without the RP buff it provides and so maybe that's the conditions it's been playtested and designed with in mind.
Bosskelot wrote: The reanimators core issue is that it has a potentially powerful rule that makes it an almost nightmare to properly balance and point accurately. It's funny in that in making this new RP rule they've solved that issue that used to plague RP as a rule, only to make a specific unit that suffers the same sort of problem.
With its terrible statline the only thing that really makes sense is if the Nanoscarab Beam rule is actually an aura, rather than a targeted ability, because otherwise I have no idea how to make the unit work. I suppose with sufficient obscuring cover you can weather turn 1 shooting (if you didn't get first turn) without the RP buff it provides and so maybe that's the conditions it's been playtested and designed with in mind.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: For me, my core choices are always going to be Warriors and Immortals.
With Immortals going back to T5, they’re getting a decent whack of extra resilience against most small arms fire, such as Bolters and other S4 goodies, and to a lesser degree against S5.
Add in RP, and their 3+ save, and they become more difficult to get off the board.
We’ll also need to consider our own damage output in a turn, and that will of course fluctuate from army to army, based on what the player has included.
Let’s look at the Monolith, and arm it with Death Rays.
That.....that’s a lot of damage potential. Decent strength, fair number of shots, solid AP and, crucially, reliable Damage. With a fair wind and only slightly jammy dice, there’s not a great many vehicles that can soak enough to stay on the board.
And reliable Damage on our heavy weapons does kind of look to be the norm, when we look at the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer.
In an edition where they've shown shown some progress towards evening out the wild random swingy weapons (with things like 3D3, D3+3 etc.) I'm disappointed they decided to revert the particle whip from Heavy 6 back to Heavy D6.
Yes - it's blast but it feels like a S12 D3 weapon should have better targets than massed infantry.
I really don't understand why RP still has to turn off when the unit is wiped. Imagine the collective cries of DG players if causing enough wounds to kill a unit just turned off FNP. RP is still going to be so easy to get around this edition. Even warriors that seem to be best will probably only get 4-6 back before its depleted enough to just be 1 shot
Asmodios wrote: I really don't understand why RP still has to turn off when the unit is wiped. Imagine the collective cries of DG players if causing enough wounds to kill a unit just turned off FNP. RP is still going to be so easy to get around this edition. Even warriors that seem to be best will probably only get 4-6 back before its depleted enough to just be 1 shot
Quasi-fluff I'd guess. And wanting to have a different mechanic to just having a 5+++.
In an edition where they've shown shown some progress towards evening out the wild random swingy weapons (with things like 3D3, D3+3 etc.) I'm disappointed they decided to revert the particle whip from Heavy 6 back to Heavy D6.
Yes - it's blast but it feels like a S12 D3 weapon should have better targets than massed infantry.
That fact that its heavy d6 and blast helps make it worse. Blast isn't a 'cool new thing,' its a nerf button. Especially on AT weapons.
A) it can be turned off (by running someone into combat)
B) being heavy d6 means its not very good against its primary targets
@Asmodios- GW apparently doesn't want markers on the field, which would be required to have some point to RP back to if a unit is wiped out.
Its also clear that they think of RP as a minor bonus, not a signature ability that gives major benefits. They're being cautious about the line between getting models back and the points value of having 'extra' models. Not sure they drew the line in the right place for multi-wound models, but that's the 'why.'
Asmodios wrote: I really don't understand why RP still has to turn off when the unit is wiped. Imagine the collective cries of DG players if causing enough wounds to kill a unit just turned off FNP. RP is still going to be so easy to get around this edition. Even warriors that seem to be best will probably only get 4-6 back before its depleted enough to just be 1 shot
Quasi-fluff I'd guess. And wanting to have a different mechanic to just having a 5+++.
It still would have been different and fluffy without having an easy off switch for no apparent reason. I even could have seen them leaving this get around in the game if we could stack more then +1 onto RP. But instead, they left this in which just makes it a really lame version of FNP that can be easily turned off and discourages MSU even more in an edition where like 200 weapons just got better at killing hordes
Asmodios wrote: I really don't understand why RP still has to turn off when the unit is wiped. Imagine the collective cries of DG players if causing enough wounds to kill a unit just turned off FNP. RP is still going to be so easy to get around this edition. Even warriors that seem to be best will probably only get 4-6 back before its depleted enough to just be 1 shot
I mean, I can shoot a plague marine with a plasma gun and make its odds of surviving drop from 33% to near nil, which is not a thing I can do with a necron warrior.
@Asmodios- GW apparently doesn't want markers on the field, which would be required to have some point to RP back to if a unit is wiped out.
Its also clear that they think of RP as a minor bonus, not a signature ability that gives major benefits. They're being cautious about the line between getting models back and the points value of having 'extra' models. Not sure they drew the line in the right place for multi-wound models, but that's the 'why.'
I think we started to see this steadily in how they changed the Synapse for tyranids a while back. There was a time that taking out synapse was very damaging to Tyrainds. You basically lost all control and gaunts would more as not flee. Which whilst it fit the idea that taking out synapse was good, it also made it such a powerful element that it shut down some list building options and Tyranid players would load up on a lot of synapse anyway. Now its more of a bonus that they lose rather than a cornerstone of the army taken out.
RP might well be the same; something that once defined the army, now being made weaker to be one of many features.
It likely plays into them giving Necrons a lot more models and diversity and thus more potential build options and ways to take the army. So some old tricks weaken a bit because now its no longer the crutch the whole army works on
I figure we will see the same pattern for many AoS armies which right now might have less than half a dozen different models outside of leaders. Seeing them have powerful combos and troops that will get weaker/change over time as they add more and more diversity and options into the range.
In an edition where they've shown shown some progress towards evening out the wild random swingy weapons (with things like 3D3, D3+3 etc.) I'm disappointed they decided to revert the particle whip from Heavy 6 back to Heavy D6.
Yes - it's blast but it feels like a S12 D3 weapon should have better targets than massed infantry.
That fact that its heavy d6 and blast helps make it worse. Blast isn't a 'cool new thing,' its a nerf button. Especially on AT weapons.
A) it can be turned off (by running someone into combat)
B) being heavy d6 means its not very good against its primary targets
@Asmodios- GW apparently doesn't want markers on the field, which would be required to have some point to RP back to if a unit is wiped out.
Its also clear that they think of RP as a minor bonus, not a signature ability that gives major benefits. They're being cautious about the line between getting models back and the points value of having 'extra' models. Not sure they drew the line in the right place for multi-wound models, but that's the 'why.'
You wouldn't need any markers on the board just let the units that fail their saves to roll a RP before being removed even if they are all "killed" just like a FNP. Why does this ability magically turn off if there are enough wounds caused to kill the unit? Once again we allow FNP even if 3 wounds are caused to the last 3 models in a DG unit why not allow necrons an equally potent ability.
Asmodios wrote: I really don't understand why RP still has to turn off when the unit is wiped. Imagine the collective cries of DG players if causing enough wounds to kill a unit just turned off FNP. RP is still going to be so easy to get around this edition. Even warriors that seem to be best will probably only get 4-6 back before its depleted enough to just be 1 shot
I mean, I can shoot a plague marine with a plasma gun and make its odds of surviving drop from 33% to near nil, which is not a thing I can do with a necron warrior.
this doesn't change the fact that you still get to use your rule. The fact that you can so easily make it so that necrons don't get to use RP is BS.
RP likely stops because the unit received so much fire that there is nothing left to reanimate. It would also stand to reason that Necrons might even disable RP if units are destroyed entirely and there are no friendly units around. Why risk reanimating when the enemy clearly has you overwhelmed - stay dead and reanimate later when the rest of the legion marches over.
Don't forget they still have saves and any other protective bonuses, RP isn't the only way they can survive.
Lord Clinto wrote: I'm hoping that "Living Metal" will allow multi-wound Necrons to always be considered "Reanimating" so that even after it fails on RP roll it can still roll next attack too.
Unlikely if we're using the Edge of Silence datasheets for guidance, as there are models with Living Metal and not Reanimation Protocols (e.g., the Overlord).
Overread wrote: RP likely stops because the unit received so much fire that there is nothing left to reanimate. It would also stand to reason that Necrons might even disable RP if units are destroyed entirely and there are no friendly units around. Why risk reanimating when the enemy clearly has you overwhelmed - stay dead and reanimate later when the rest of the legion marches over.
Don't forget they still have saves and any other protective bonuses, RP isn't the only way they can survive.
That makes no sense from a gameplay or fluff perspective. Just imagine a 10 man warrior unit gets shot “our lord over there needs are help we better try to stand back up and save him.... ahh crap they knocked down all 10 of us instead of just 9 of us better not even try to stand back up” once again no different then a pox walker unit saying “it’s a shame they did 10 wounds of damage to us if they only had done 9 we could have attempted our FNP”
It's currently three, if Battlescribe doesn't fail me, which actually makes it kinda scary in melee. AP-3, D3, and autohits... Well, it certainly ain't that scary for the PRICE, but it's a damn sight meaner than just about any other tank.
Overread wrote: RP likely stops because the unit received so much fire that there is nothing left to reanimate. It would also stand to reason that Necrons might even disable RP if units are destroyed entirely and there are no friendly units around. Why risk reanimating when the enemy clearly has you overwhelmed - stay dead and reanimate later when the rest of the legion marches over.
Don't forget they still have saves and any other protective bonuses, RP isn't the only way they can survive.
That makes no sense from a gameplay or fluff perspective. Just imagine a 10 man warrior unit gets shot “our lord over there needs are help we better try to stand back up and save him.... ahh crap they knocked down all 10 of us instead of just 9 of us better not even try to stand back up” once again no different then a pox walker unit saying “it’s a shame they did 10 wounds of damage to us if they only had done 9 we could have attempted our FNP”
I mean aside from the fact that necrons teleport away when they suffer heavy damage and always have.
Odds are the large warrior blobs will actually be a negative with the number of weapons with the blast profile. Yes more warriors more RP rolls, but these 'blobs' will be taking more wounds to begin with. Larger footprint on the board ect.
Restrictions - Entire army myst be from same Dynasty (Exclude C'tan, agents, unaligned) - Must have Necron <NOBLE> as warlord - Must be a Necron <NOBLE> on the battlefield that turn - Unit must be within 6" of non-C'tan <CHARACTER> (so... C'tan are still characters)
Choose order of Command Protocols - This is done AFTER deplyment but BEFORE roll for 1st turn - Can note down secretly on army rost - Can lay datacards down in order - Each turn select one of the two directives (named dynasties have both of 1)
If game goed on longer than 5 turns, the last one continues in effect
Eternal Guardian: - If didn't move, fall back or advance this BR, gain light cover. - Can holt steady or set to defend as if in heavy cover
Sudden Storm +1" movement - Can do actions and still shoot
Vengeful Stars - Ranged wound roll of 6 = AP better by 1 - Ranger attacks <half range = ignore cover
Hungry Void - Melee wound roll of 6 = AP better by 1 - +1S if charged, was charged or made heroic int.
Undying Legions - Living metal = gain 2 wounds instead of 1 - Re-Roll one die each time the unit makes RP
Concuering Tyrant - +3" to auras and " Rites of reanimation", Lords will and My will be done - Fall back and shoot but will be =1 to hit
Overread wrote: RP likely stops because the unit received so much fire that there is nothing left to reanimate. It would also stand to reason that Necrons might even disable RP if units are destroyed entirely and there are no friendly units around. Why risk reanimating when the enemy clearly has you overwhelmed - stay dead and reanimate later when the rest of the legion marches over.
Don't forget they still have saves and any other protective bonuses, RP isn't the only way they can survive.
That makes no sense from a gameplay or fluff perspective. Just imagine a 10 man warrior unit gets shot “our lord over there needs are help we better try to stand back up and save him.... ahh crap they knocked down all 10 of us instead of just 9 of us better not even try to stand back up” once again no different then a pox walker unit saying “it’s a shame they did 10 wounds of damage to us if they only had done 9 we could have attempted our FNP”
I mean aside from the fact that necrons teleport away when they suffer heavy damage and always have.
Yeah but they haven’t taken damage any more heavily then normal they just never attempt to re animate. Imagine having 1 necron left and he fails a wound to a las gun. He now doesn’t even try to stand up despite it only being a las gun
Well, at least we can say those are rules worthy of the King.
It is rather a hodge-podge of disconnected abilities.
Most of it fits, I guess, but 'generalist commander' doesn't sit right in my head, and he doesn't share enough space with what Overlords usually do.
His abilities are also mostly not _him_. Its his balcony or his pillars, or his rocks or his secretaries.
_His_ only ability is 'voice of the triarchs' which is odd for a guy called the 'silent king.'
You could farm all these functions out to other characters, scenery or vehicles.
So the article noted that the silent King still has more rules that they havent shown. I imiagine its more of his defensive abilities and such, I also imagine the triarch can shoot/fight as well.
Ironically the Hexmark Destroyer is a non-Ctan character so it might be useful for getting protocols towards the front of the army or in the backfield
Sasori wrote: One thing to keep in mind that this is not the full preview for the SK, he still has more abilities.
Also, picking the Protocols before turn order is decided is really stupid.
Agreed, but if you pick one that'll help regardless, like the +1" movement then it'll still be useful.
I'm trying to figure out what would be the optimum order to go in. Perhaps start with movement, got to shooting, then a close ranged one, then combat? Oh no it's just like combat doctrines
I'm trying to figure out what would be the optimum order to go in. Perhaps start with movement, got to shooting, then a close ranged one, then combat? Oh no it's just like combat doctrines
I would have thought best to start off with Eternal Guardians defensive buffs just in case you don't get first turn you can mitigate some alpha strike, otherwise it's business as usual and you won't have wasted a shooting buff when you're not in good range or LOS.
Well, at least we can say those are rules worthy of the King.
It is rather a hodge-podge of disconnected abilities.
Most of it fits, I guess, but 'generalist commander' doesn't sit right in my head, and he doesn't share enough space with what Overlords usually do.
His abilities are also mostly not _him_. Its his balcony or his pillars, or his rocks or his secretaries.
_His_ only ability is 'voice of the triarchs' which is odd for a guy called the 'silent king.'
You could farm all these functions out to other characters, scenery or vehicles.
A king delegating a bunch of tasks so he doesn't have to do as much? Wow that's a first.
Trying to figure out when they happen. If they're automatic at the start of the battle round, regardless of who goes first, then the defensive ones aren't bad for turn 1.
If your command phase has to happen before they engage, the defensive protocols are amazingly bad for turn 1.
T1: Eternal Guardian for cover
T2: Vengeful Stars for either IC or bonus AP depending on what you need
T3: Hungering Void: This turn you'll be in combat likely or just about to charge, either buff could work here depending on what you field
T4: Conquering Tyrant: Let your more shooty units fall back and shoot, or if youre doing well give the aura buff to help the crons in combat
T5: Undying Legions: Hopefully that repair or Res buff will help you keep an objective or keep a character alive or something
You could easily replace the last one with Sudden Storm to grab lat minute objectives
As the Immovable Phalanx is written, does that mean if the opponent takes the first turn, you always get the bonus since they begin the battle round and the Necrons cannot have moved that round? Harsh
Sherrypie wrote: As the Immovable Phalanx is written, does that mean if the opponent takes the first turn, you always get the bonus since they begin the battle round and the Necrons cannot have moved that round? Harsh
Nevermind, slip upped the slip up. Eternal Guardian and Immovable Phalanxes would give you 2+ Sv Warriors
The only gripe I have with RP, ignoring stratagems/abilities/etc., is that if we're trying to build a list around RP, it backs us into a corner of having to bring max sized units again. MSU can be easily cleaned off the table, with no use of RP as it's currently written. And max sized units opens us up to Blast weapons and locking up larger shooting units in CC.
As un-thematic as it would have been, I would have just preferred a FNP.
Necronplayer wrote: The only gripe I have with RP, ignoring stratagems/abilities/etc., is that if we're trying to build a list around RP, it backs us into a corner of having to bring max sized units again. MSU can be easily cleaned off the table, with no use of RP as it's currently written. And max sized units opens us up to Blast weapons and locking up larger shooting units in CC.
As un-thematic as it would have been, I would have just preferred a FNP.
Yes it's certainly very un-thematic for necrons to be fielded as some kind of...large phalanx of robo-zombies marching implacably toward the enemy.
Necronplayer wrote: The only gripe I have with RP, ignoring stratagems/abilities/etc., is that if we're trying to build a list around RP, it backs us into a corner of having to bring max sized units again. MSU can be easily cleaned off the table, with no use of RP as it's currently written. And max sized units opens us up to Blast weapons and locking up larger shooting units in CC.
As un-thematic as it would have been, I would have just preferred a FNP.
Yes it's certainly very un-thematic for necrons to be fielded as some kind of...large phalanx of robo-zombies marching implacably toward the enemy.
How terribly out of their theme!
To be fair RP works rather well for 1 wound models and that's before we consider any buffs/synergies in the codex. So chances are yes you can have your zombie army. It's just if you want to add destroyers and canoptek there are other options and functions beyond RP.
In the end Necron lore has also changed as has their method of battle. They are no longer an army with 3 troop choices, 1 leader and 1 fast attack and one heavy unit spawning monolith. With the number of new destroyer models I'd be surprised if there isn't a Destroyer Cult Dynasty option that lets you take them as troops instead of warriors.
Necronplayer wrote: The only gripe I have with RP, ignoring stratagems/abilities/etc., is that if we're trying to build a list around RP, it backs us into a corner of having to bring max sized units again. MSU can be easily cleaned off the table, with no use of RP as it's currently written. And max sized units opens us up to Blast weapons and locking up larger shooting units in CC.
As un-thematic as it would have been, I would have just preferred a FNP.
Yes it's certainly very un-thematic for necrons to be fielded as some kind of...large phalanx of robo-zombies marching implacably toward the enemy.
How terribly out of their theme!
It's in-theme for Warriors, certainly. But should Destroyers, Praetorians etc. also be punished for not appearing in max-sized units?
They have been for editions now. Has there been edition they havent?
Though still. Max sized or not. You didn't use RP in 8e, you don't get use of it in 9e. It's special rule on paper only. No change there. Question is how much of necron tax they have on points.
Necronplayer wrote: The only gripe I have with RP, ignoring stratagems/abilities/etc., is that if we're trying to build a list around RP, it backs us into a corner of having to bring max sized units again. MSU can be easily cleaned off the table, with no use of RP as it's currently written. And max sized units opens us up to Blast weapons and locking up larger shooting units in CC.
As un-thematic as it would have been, I would have just preferred a FNP.
Yes it's certainly very un-thematic for necrons to be fielded as some kind of...large phalanx of robo-zombies marching implacably toward the enemy.
How terribly out of their theme!
It's in-theme for Warriors, certainly. But should Destroyers, Praetorians etc. also be punished for not appearing in max-sized units?
I think the post was misunderstood. Un-thematic with FNP as opposed to RP and standing back up. I agree the theme of warriors is a large phalanx.
The foundation of most of my lists, and I imagine others, is troops with ObSec, so we'd want to try to optimize the survivability of those troops. My point is that MSU gives up that survivability as it's less likely to roll for RP.
I'm okay with them punishing them, as long as the point costs reflects that.
Necronplayer wrote: The only gripe I have with RP, ignoring stratagems/abilities/etc., is that if we're trying to build a list around RP, it backs us into a corner of having to bring max sized units again. MSU can be easily cleaned off the table, with no use of RP as it's currently written. And max sized units opens us up to Blast weapons and locking up larger shooting units in CC.
As un-thematic as it would have been, I would have just preferred a FNP.
Yes it's certainly very un-thematic for necrons to be fielded as some kind of...large phalanx of robo-zombies marching implacably toward the enemy.
How terribly out of their theme!
It's in-theme for Warriors, certainly. But should Destroyers, Praetorians etc. also be punished for not appearing in max-sized units?
This reminds me of the argument from the space marine players that their army is punished by not having doctrines if they take soup.
The current resurrection protocol rule does not allow you to roll for it if your opponent wipes your unit given their ENTIRE TURN to do so.
The new resurrection protocol rule does not allow you to roll for it if your opponent wipes your unit with A SINGLE ATTACK.
necrons have, since 2nd edition, not gotten to get up by default if there's no nearby unit to get up to. Older editions, your dead 'crons would actually be at a fixed position on the field, and if you wanted them back you had to either have a spyder collect them, or keep the unit hanging around the dead guys - otherwise, they'd be gone.
So what you have is an army-wide rule that certain units (the units whose theme arguably fits the concept of being destroyed and getting back up to fight like zombies) take advantage of better than other units.
And currently, we also know how exactly 1 mechanic - the baseline rule - actually works. We know of at least one new rule where we know the name, but don't know how the mechanic functions. And we know from obvious context clues that "+1 to Rule" is going to be a rule, probably on the units like the Cryptek and Reanimator that already do that thing.
Regardless, small units of necrons function better with the new rule, than they did with the old rule. Just because a mechanic that's already been there - the fact that wiping the unit out entirely prevents them from reanimating - still exists, does not mean that smaller units are being "punished."
Necronplayer wrote: The only gripe I have with RP, ignoring stratagems/abilities/etc., is that if we're trying to build a list around RP, it backs us into a corner of having to bring max sized units again. MSU can be easily cleaned off the table, with no use of RP as it's currently written. And max sized units opens us up to Blast weapons and locking up larger shooting units in CC.
As un-thematic as it would have been, I would have just preferred a FNP.
Yes it's certainly very un-thematic for necrons to be fielded as some kind of...large phalanx of robo-zombies marching implacably toward the enemy.
How terribly out of their theme!
It's in-theme for Warriors, certainly. But should Destroyers, Praetorians etc. also be punished for not appearing in max-sized units?
I think the post was misunderstood. Un-thematic with FNP as opposed to RP and standing back up. I agree the theme of warriors is a large phalanx.
The foundation of most of my lists, and I imagine others, is troops with ObSec, so we'd want to try to optimize the survivability of those troops. My point is that MSU gives up that survivability as it's less likely to roll for RP.
I'm okay with them punishing them, as long as the point costs reflects that.
Ideally yeah, units that will rarely benefit from new RP should not be costed heavily with new RP in mind.
...or a mechanic should exist, say, on res orbs, that allows you to 'round up' the roll and get 1 more duder.
personally I think it'd be funny if res orbs were fluffed as like, a way for a noble to resurrect his particularly special favorite necron, so they let you resurrect 1 extra guy or round up the roll. So the Overlord's favorite Lychguard goes down and he's like 'no, Steve! I liked Steve, his head crest was my favorite. Get back here Steve."
Necronplayer wrote: The only gripe I have with RP, ignoring stratagems/abilities/etc., is that if we're trying to build a list around RP, it backs us into a corner of having to bring max sized units again. MSU can be easily cleaned off the table, with no use of RP as it's currently written. And max sized units opens us up to Blast weapons and locking up larger shooting units in CC.
As un-thematic as it would have been, I would have just preferred a FNP.
Yes it's certainly very un-thematic for necrons to be fielded as some kind of...large phalanx of robo-zombies marching implacably toward the enemy.
How terribly out of their theme!
It's in-theme for Warriors, certainly. But should Destroyers, Praetorians etc. also be punished for not appearing in max-sized units?
This reminds me of the argument from the space marine players that their army is punished by not having doctrines if they take soup.
The current resurrection protocol rule does not allow you to roll for it if your opponent wipes your unit given their ENTIRE TURN to do so.
The new resurrection protocol rule does not allow you to roll for it if your opponent wipes your unit with A SINGLE ATTACK.
necrons have, since 2nd edition, not gotten to get up by default if there's no nearby unit to get up to. Older editions, your dead 'crons would actually be at a fixed position on the field, and if you wanted them back you had to either have a spyder collect them, or keep the unit hanging around the dead guys - otherwise, they'd be gone.
So what you have is an army-wide rule that certain units (the units whose theme arguably fits the concept of being destroyed and getting back up to fight like zombies) take advantage of better than other units.
And currently, we also know how exactly 1 mechanic - the baseline rule - actually works. We know of at least one new rule where we know the name, but don't know how the mechanic functions. And we know from obvious context clues that "+1 to Rule" is going to be a rule, probably on the units like the Cryptek and Reanimator that already do that thing.
Regardless, small units of necrons function better with the new rule, than they did with the old rule. Just because a mechanic that's already been there - the fact that wiping the unit out entirely prevents them from reanimating - still exists, does not mean that smaller units are being "punished."
I wasn't comparing the new mechanic to the current one. I was just saying I wish the mechanic didn't strongly discourage MSU builds, which I enjoyed in 5th.
the_scotsman wrote: I would say that ATSKNF and Combat Squads not working on them does not discourage marine players from going for an MSU build.
It's a universal rule that applies to larger units.
I see your point, but I think it's more appropriate to look at something similar to RP, DG's Disgustingly Resilient. A unit will be able to use that ability at min and max size.
To a degree I think its a trade off. If you take 5 immortals you get the added flexibility, and lower investment cost, and, to a very small degree, your opponent is concerned with overkilling them massively. (Although really lets say worst case, they kill 4, you resurrect 2, oh no.)
I think this rule will help 1-2 wound models in bigger squads compared to what they have now. Its a less obvious boost for 3+ wound models, which *feels* bad as its the major faction rule, but if the points reflect that fact its not the end of the world.
Much like Protocols in general really. It feels like a weak incarnation of a rule - but if the units themselves are pointed aggressively it won't matter.
the_scotsman wrote: I would say that ATSKNF and Combat Squads not working on them does not discourage marine players from going for an MSU build.
I don't think that's a fair comparison.
I mean, Combat Squads is literally about turning a Marine army MSU.
And using small units basically negates any need for ATSKNF.
In contrast, Necrons tend to be built much more heavily around RPs, in the same way that Death Guard are priced with their 5+++ in mind.
Now, you might well be right in that it might not be as bad as I fear (or perhaps Necrons will get a way to bring back destroyed units). I was just hoping that the new mechanic wouldn't still discourage MSU armies.
Tyel wrote: To a degree I think its a trade off. If you take 5 immortals you get the added flexibility, and lower investment cost, and, to a very small degree, your opponent is concerned with overkilling them massively. (Although really lets say worst case, they kill 4, you resurrect 2, oh no.)
Surely the worst case scenario would be your opponent killing all 5? In which case you get to resurrect 0.
Necronplayer wrote: Also, on a side note, a big complaint of 8th edition RP was that it was strong in small games (<1000), and weak in large games (2000+).
Doesn't the new 9th RP exacerbate this issue even more for smaller point games?
I don't think so.
The issue with the old one was that in small games you could reach the point where squads were effectively immortal - as you'd reach the point where you simply couldn't kill enough to wipe out the squad.
However, with the new rules, models that fail their saves stay dead permanently. So even if some end up coming back, the squad is still going to be permanently shrinking in size whenever it takes damage.
Necronplayer wrote: Also, on a side note, a big complaint of 8th edition RP was that it was strong in small games (<1000), and weak in large games (2000+).
Doesn't the new 9th RP exacerbate this issue even more for smaller point games?
I don't think so.
The issue with the old one was that in small games you could reach the point where squads were effectively immortal - as you'd reach the point where you simply couldn't kill enough to wipe out the squad.
However, with the new rules, models that fail their saves stay dead permanently. So even if some end up coming back, the squad is still going to be permanently shrinking in size whenever it takes damage.
Yeah, that's true. I was thinking in a 1k game with 8th RP, they may just be able to wipe a full squad of immortals or warriors with all their offense. In 9th, that doesn't seem possible after every attack RP procs.
Yeah, Sautekh warriors are the best option for reapers.
Mephrit, imo, isn't really in the running for anything, despite their own way of bumping range (and AP). 3" just doesn't make enough difference.
I'm leaning towards Nephrekh making for a better melee army than Novokh. A little extra protection for the multiwound models especially and the ability to close the distance faster with utterly reliable 6" advances. Helps grab objectives early too.
Voss wrote: Yeah, Sautekh warriors are the best option for reapers.
Mephrit, imo, isn't really in the running for anything, despite their own way of bumping range (and AP). 3" just doesn't make enough difference.
I'm leaning towards Nephrekh making for a better melee army than Novokh. A little extra protection for the multiwound models especially and the ability to close the distance faster with utterly reliable 6" advances. Helps grab objectives early too.
The Translocate for the move is also very nice, means models without fly can reliably move across units and terrain with no problem. I like Nephrekh a lot. Doesn't hurt that both directives of the Sudden Storm is very good. I plan to playtest it and Nihilakh.
I agree with Mephirt, it feels like the trap dynasty (again). Vengeful Stars is really good, but that's not anywhere enough reason to take Mephrit when the other Dynasties seem much better.
It'd be nice for it to feel like a real choice rather than 6 types of smite.
Maybe even some buffing ones? But I feel a star god would be hard pressed to help its enslavers
Very likely. We've got 2 good powers, and the rest range from really bad, to mediocre.
With the Void Dragon, and likely the Silent King being able to use Silent kings I expect an overhaul and more powers.
I think at this point it's more of a question of what didn't change, as so far nearly every single weapon and datasheet has. Tesla Carbines and Gauss flayers are about the only thing that appears to have not changed! haha.
-Ňecrontyr- wrote: I hadnt thought of Szarekh being able to use the enslaved Ctans powers...interesting
I suspected that might be the case, he's gonna be a fun char
I am not convinced by those tiny green energy beams where he, and the Triarchal Menhirs, stand on. Looks like they will break of very easily. Also, center of gravity is pretty high, so they might fall over when touched.
Easy enough to attach additional supports. Ive done so on all my 'hover'vehicles and eitger disguised them as flotsam or painted dead black like the base
It'd be nice for it to feel like a real choice rather than 6 types of smite.
Maybe even some buffing ones? But I feel a star god would be hard pressed to help its enslavers
Very likely. We've got 2 good powers, and the rest range from really bad, to mediocre.
With the Void Dragon, and likely the Silent King being able to use Silent kings I expect an overhaul and more powers.
I think at this point it's more of a question of what didn't change, as so far nearly every single weapon and datasheet has. Tesla Carbines and Gauss flayers are about the only thing that appears to have not changed! haha.
Man, seeing the new ctans spear just makes me wish GW would allow themselves to climb out of the teeny tiny box labeled "mortal wounds" that they stuffed themselves into in 8th for psychic powers.
Every single fething offensive power feels EXACTLY THE SAME, because of course MWs are a mechanic that has to be strictly limited! You can't have an antihorde psychic power, you can't have an antitank psychic power, because if you did it would absolutely DEMOLISH elite infantry because none of the games normal established limits fething apply to mortal wounds.
It'd be nice for it to feel like a real choice rather than 6 types of smite.
Maybe even some buffing ones? But I feel a star god would be hard pressed to help its enslavers
Very likely. We've got 2 good powers, and the rest range from really bad, to mediocre.
With the Void Dragon, and likely the Silent King being able to use Silent kings I expect an overhaul and more powers.
I think at this point it's more of a question of what didn't change, as so far nearly every single weapon and datasheet has. Tesla Carbines and Gauss flayers are about the only thing that appears to have not changed! haha.
Man, seeing the new ctans spear just makes me wish GW would allow themselves to climb out of the teeny tiny box labeled "mortal wounds" that they stuffed themselves into in 8th for psychic powers.
Every single fething offensive power feels EXACTLY THE SAME, because of course MWs are a mechanic that has to be strictly limited! You can't have an antihorde psychic power, you can't have an antitank psychic power, because if you did it would absolutely DEMOLISH elite infantry because none of the games normal established limits fething apply to mortal wounds.
Nice to know I'm not the only one who'd fed up with a million variations on 'do d3 Mortal Wounds'.
That said, the other aspect is that the C'tan powers also don't attempt to do anything besides Mortal Wounds. At least psychic powers also have stuff like buffs and debuffs. Could we not have a C'tan power that reduces an enemy's movement? Maybe one that removes Fly from any unit bar an actual Flier? Maybe one that prevents Overwatch? (To an extent, these would be mirroring many of the old Cryptek powers). Just stuff other than bloody Mortal bloody Wounds.
-Ňecrontyr- wrote: Easy enough to attach additional supports. Ive done so on all my 'hover'vehicles and eitger disguised them as flotsam or painted dead black like the base
Right, i pay ~130€ and have to do additional work ?
Just because they look unstable doesn't necessarily mean that they are. Mortarion is only held up by three swirly parts of his cloak and they are probably the least likely part of the model to break.
-Ňecrontyr- wrote: Easy enough to attach additional supports. Ive done so on all my 'hover'vehicles and eitger disguised them as flotsam or painted dead black like the base
Right, i pay ~130€ and have to do additional work ?
You don't have to, but if you're concerned you could for peace of mind if you're concerned about the model being man handled.
-Ňecrontyr- wrote: Easy enough to attach additional supports. Ive done so on all my 'hover'vehicles and eitger disguised them as flotsam or painted dead black like the base
Right, i pay ~130€ and have to do additional work ?
The silent king looks a lot more stable than bloodthirsters do honestly. and bloodthirsthers aren't that fragile anyway
Jidmah wrote: Just because they look unstable doesn't necessarily mean that they are. Mortarion is only held up by three swirly parts of his cloak and they are probably the least likely part of the model to break.
I was going to say the same thing. Pretty much every time a large model comes out, someone talks about some part of it being too easy to break, and they're almost always wrong. GW's plastic is surprisingly strong, and they really know what they're doing when it comes to the practical side of model design.
If you want to get silly you can have his Dais carried by a bunch of necron warriors
I'm pretty sure those leaked rules were confirmed fake, that being said, if we got something similar to what it shows the plasmacyte doing or the Canoptek Node that would be a pretty big boon
EnTyme wrote: I was going to say the same thing. Pretty much every time a large model comes out, someone talks about some part of it being too easy to break, and they're almost always wrong. GW's plastic is surprisingly strong, and they really know what they're doing when it comes to the practical side of model design.
Hmmm.
On one hand, yes, I built metal models that required you to bend the laws of physics (or use rods I guess) to keep together - so this lament always seems a bit weak.
On the other, those thin spindly bits often manage to catch on things when in transport, unless you create a bespoke cushion, which can be a bit awkward when the model is quite three dimensional. Its usually a problem with bits at the top of the model rather than at the base though.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: If you want to get silly you can have his Dais carried by a bunch of necron warriors
I'm pretty sure those leaked rules were confirmed fake, that being said, if we got something similar to what it shows the plasmacyte doing or the Canoptek Node that would be a pretty big boon
They're obviously fake, since the actual rules from Indomitus are quite different.
We might see some tweaks from the Indomitus version (like apparently separating out the plasmacyte as an independent model), but a major overhaul to the fake rules isn't going to happen.
What more would you expect that would make him worth the $150 and likely 400+pts?
I mean the article literally said we have more rules we haven't seen. I'd probably expect more for the bodyguards, the CTan stuck on top to do powers, and probably something else.
What more would you expect that would make him worth the $150 and likely 400+pts?
I mean the article literally said we have more rules we haven't seen. I'd probably expect more for the bodyguards, the CTan stuck on top to do powers, and probably something else.
I also want to say at some point it was mentioned he would do something with Reanimation, but I could be wrong on that.
I don't know if it's just me, but the colours make this look like a magic-eye picture.
I almost disagreed at first, but then I looked at it some more, focusing on the 'reap-blades' to see if I could determine if there was a non-EZ build skorpekh destroyer kit hiding in there.
It took a lot longer than it should have to determine that no, there was not.
The bases are jumbled to the point they look like one solid game board, and the models are just one non-Euclidean edge highlight doubling back on itself endlessly.
The deathless arise stratagem makes it sound like the current resurrection rules, or something similar, may also be in the army in some way in addition to the new ones.
Play this when your Reanimation Protocols haven’t been as successful as you would have liked. Just when your opponent thinks they have an advantage, your dead Necrons return to the fray.
PHAERON keyword is a thing...
You can only blow up a single Scarab base and not the whole unit...
I do like this Strat, it's an interesting decision: would you use the reroll strat if this failed? Well, guarantee it with a strat. But then... what if I succeeded without spending it? You pay for the consistency.
I also really like the idea of a bunch of Crypteks standing round looking at astral charts and arguing about the exact frequency a random warrior's gauss rifle should be programmed to in order to take the last wound off a Leman Russ in a week's time.
So Crypteks can raise the dead in the command phase? Nice. Makes the reanimator ability more interesting if crypteks don't do that anymore.
I feel like a lot of the new rules make necrons feel more like undead from fantasy; characters raising the dead and enabling nearby units to work properly.
Also I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere that Szeras gets to do rites of reanimation twice, so 3 times with this strat.
I'm very happy to see what looks like wargear/relics having points costs attached to be honest, dealing with all this stuff through CPs and 'free' Relics really limits the scope of what they can do.
I don't know what any of these things do, or what they are... but the names sound awesome.
Cool to see Necrons actually getting some new wargear (or, if I was to guess, getting back some of their old wargear but with new, more pretentious names).
Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's with 1 shot I think but depending on what you're firing with that might be worth it.
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack on a single model if that's not clear, but yeah it seems pretty useful in some situations.
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack on a single model if that's not clear, but yeah it seems pretty useful in some situations.
Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack, so it can be good
Right, me properly reading the text might have been beneficial.....
But yeah, that of course seems a lot more reasonable.
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack on a single model if that's not clear, but yeah it seems pretty useful in some situations.
Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack, so it can be good
Right, me properly reading the text might have been beneficial.....
But yeah, that of course seems a lot more reasonable.
With malevolent arcing the MW effect always happens. It doesnt matter if 20 or 1 model shoot, and it doesnt matter whether their attacks hit or not. You still roll for enemy units within 6"
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack on a single model if that's not clear, but yeah it seems pretty useful in some situations.
Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack, so it can be good
Right, me properly reading the text might have been beneficial.....
But yeah, that of course seems a lot more reasonable.
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack on a single model if that's not clear, but yeah it seems pretty useful in some situations.
Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack, so it can be good
Right, me properly reading the text might have been beneficial.....
But yeah, that of course seems a lot more reasonable.
I'm already polishing up my Tachyon arrows.
Then you roll a 1 for damage.
That's fine - then I'll just use another CP for a reroll.
Into another
But you're right - Ideally you want this on something that has a high consistent damage to make 100% sure you get it.
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack on a single model if that's not clear, but yeah it seems pretty useful in some situations.
Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack, so it can be good
Right, me properly reading the text might have been beneficial.....
But yeah, that of course seems a lot more reasonable.
I'm already polishing up my Tachyon arrows.
Then you roll a 1 for damage.
That's fine - then I'll just use another CP for a reroll.
Into another
But you're right - Ideally you want this on something that has a high consistent damage to make 100% sure you get it.
Those huge ass menhirs the silent has as embellishment for his pimp throne might be a good candidate.
They each have one shot at S12 and flat 6 dmg.
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack on a single model if that's not clear, but yeah it seems pretty useful in some situations.
Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Tiberias wrote: Wait, am I missing something or is the new strategem "techno-oracular targeting", where you automatically wound your target in the shooting phase, ridiculously strong. Especially for 1 CP.
It's for a single attack, so it can be good
Right, me properly reading the text might have been beneficial.....
But yeah, that of course seems a lot more reasonable.
I'm already polishing up my Tachyon arrows.
Then you roll a 1 for damage.
That's fine - then I'll just use another CP for a reroll.
Into another
But you're right - Ideally you want this on something that has a high consistent damage to make 100% sure you get it.
p5freak wrote: With malevolent arcing the MW effect always happens. It doesnt matter if 20 or 1 model shoot, and it doesnt matter whether their attacks hit or not. You still roll for enemy units within 6"
Boy, you'd almost think that some special rules should have remained tied to specific units/weapons, rather than being made into Stratagems to pad them out.
I think it likely makes sense any time you need to do damage and aren't wounding on a 2+. But definitely should be on stuff where you have high damage without randomness. So death rays and such if you aren't working with the silent king.
It's any Necron model, so yeah, works as well for an Anni Barge as it does a Tesla Immortal. Are we complaining about a stratagem that procs consistently without having to roll for permission to roll first?
vipoid wrote: Especially after seeing this wargear list, I'm really curious to see the new Cryptek lineup.
Also really hoping the old fashioned Destroyer Lord gets some love.
Denegaar wrote: I'm pretty happy for you Necron players, you actually are getting a lot of cool toys.
Hope all Xenos got this treatment, and I don't see why not.
Yeah, even as a Necron player, I'll be extremely disappointed if Dark Eldar and other neglected races don't get similar treatment.
I'd temper expectations then. I think the only reason we got this huge focus is because we are the "Bad Guys" this edition, and they put a lot of money into the marketing of everything.
I do think other Xenos books will get a fair amount (the general weapon changes make it mandatory). I'm just leery that Craftworlds and Dark Eldar will get the short end of the stick in favor of Ynnari. (which to be fair need to either be a faction, not just 3 characters, or they need to dump the concept).
I'm intensely curious to see who wins the Golden Ticket for the 'early 2021 Xenos codex'
It would be awesome if living metal added an extra dice to the RP roll as if the model had +1 wound. That would help give RP some milage with multi-wound models....
It would still need it's current wound recovery as well, and hopefully that'll get a buff too, so it's not completely wasted on a model like the monolith!
MrPieChee wrote: It would be awesome if living metal added an extra dice to the RP roll as if the model had +1 wound. That would help give RP some milage with multi-wound models....
It would still need it's current wound recovery as well, and hopefully that'll get a buff too, so it's not completely wasted on a model like the monolith!
I don't think the +1W aspect will change, it's good as is imo. And they could easily add a strat to increase the wounds for something like a monolith, or you could use a technomancer.
But I'm with you in hoping it adds more dice to the pool, that'd be the saving grace of RP, and perhaps the Technomancer too
MrPieChee wrote: It would be awesome if living metal added an extra dice to the RP roll as if the model had +1 wound. That would help give RP some milage with multi-wound models....
It would still need it's current wound recovery as well, and hopefully that'll get a buff too, so it's not completely wasted on a model like the monolith!
Living metal is mentioned in the command protocols. 'Undying legion' can increase the wounds regained from 1 to 2. So by default LM still only does 1 wound of healing.
MrPieChee wrote: It would be awesome if living metal added an extra dice to the RP roll as if the model had +1 wound. That would help give RP some milage with multi-wound models....
It would still need it's current wound recovery as well, and hopefully that'll get a buff too, so it's not completely wasted on a model like the monolith!
Living metal is mentioned in the command protocols. 'Undying legion' can increase the wounds regained from 1 to 2. So by default LM still only does 1 wound of healing.
That doesn't mean that that may be all living metal does. It could just be that's the only thing the protocol enhances about it.
Voss wrote: I do think other Xenos books will get a fair amount (the general weapon changes make it mandatory). I'm just leery that Craftworlds and Dark Eldar will get the short end of the stick in favor of Ynnari. (which to be fair need to either be a faction, not just 3 characters, or they need to dump the concept).
I'm intensely curious to see who wins the Golden Ticket for the 'early 2021 Xenos codex'
In former editions I would have said Eldar.
But Eldar doesn't have the love they received in former editions
which you can see from the changes made for Ynnari.
Ynnari is more geared towards cc and this is not I would expect from a competitive Eldar army.
Not much of interest except to confirm we can get Skorpeks in units of 3-6 and they're down by 5 points/1PL from Edge of Silence.
That's pretty nice, saves 30 points on a full unit. I'm so glad that it's finally confirmed we can take them in units of 6.
Here was a leak that was up on Reddit. The Quantum Shielding matches the quantum field rule from the Battle report, and Rites about matches up what I thought it would do.
Quantic Shield : is now a 5+ invulnerable save and on top of that, you ignore unmodified wound roll of 1/2/3.
Doomstalker : has a 4+ invulnerable save. It can overwatch à la T'au, which means he get to shoot at ennemy units which charged a friendly unit within 6" of the Doomstalker. He can fire at it with the "big profile" of its weapon (forgot its name). Does not have QS.
Canoptek units : they now all have RP.
Rites of Reanimation : each Necron unit can only be targeted once by Rites of Reanimation. Select a Necron unit : D3 Necron Warriors are revived or 1 model if it's not a Necron Warriors unit.
Monolith is 380 points with 4 "mini Death Rays". Silent King is 450 and Ctan of the Void Dragon is 350
I really hope they aren't accurate. QS as it is now is one of the best rules in the game IMO because of how fluffy it is. That new version is just dull by comparison.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: I really hope they aren't accurate. QS as it is now is one of the best rules in the game IMO because of how fluffy it is. That new version is just dull by comparison.
The current one renders new melta almost pointless so needed to change.
QS change is a little disappointing, it's essentially a -1 to wound on most AV weapons and not much change on everything else...
...BUT very nice to finally get an inv save on vehicles.
EDIT: An RoR looks nice if that's accurate, better than the Hospitaller ability which I had my hopes pegged on. Again, a lot more consistent and even, and I really really like warriors with all the rules they have now (assuming they keep the reroll 1s ability too).
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: I really hope they aren't accurate. QS as it is now is one of the best rules in the game IMO because of how fluffy it is. That new version is just dull by comparison.
The current one renders new melta almost pointless...
You say this like its a bad thing....
FWIW I think *effectively* -1 to wound and a 5++ is a solid defensive profile. Its less swingy, but probably easier to value and therefore justifies lower points costs.
I like the new QS, not as good against melta or things with constant high damage. But now we're less likely to get vaporozed by plasma and other high AP, high S, low damage weapons. And considering we're tough 6, the wounding on 4's helps a lot
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: I really hope they aren't accurate. QS as it is now is one of the best rules in the game IMO because of how fluffy it is. That new version is just dull by comparison.
What makes it fluffy?
It's interesting, to be sure, but what makes it fluffy?
It's interesting, to be sure, but what makes it fluffy?
The Necrons are far more technologically advanced than the other 40k races. Their tech is from the time of war in heaven when their opponents were far more advanced than 40k races. Because of this, their vehicles are not tough and covered in thick armour like 40k races (because that wouldn't help against the super powered weaponry of the war in heaven), instead they have energy shields designed to shrug of ridiculously powerful shots.
The current QS rules are great at representing this because really powerful weapons that do 6 damage are useless against it. The way to beat it is with lower tech, low damage weapons that the Necrons did not used to have to worry about. It allows the Necrons to have rules that represent their superior technology, without breaking the game.
I suspect the old QS rule prevented GW from increasing the damage of weapons in the game without having it become broken. We will probably be seeing more weapons doing damage along the lines of the Death ray, Anihilator Beam, and close range melta in the new codexes.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Well we now have confirmation on Bladeguard being 2-5. A 4-5 man unit in an Impulsors could be fun.
No, 3-6. They also have a sergeant. It's somewhat confusingly laid out
Also, I'm quite pleased they inadvertently confirmed skorpekh destroyers cap at 6 models and not 3.
And thinking about it, a technomancer with cloak might be good to run forward if you're fielding skorpekh to help keep them fighting, it can mitigate the one killed from the plasmacyte if nothing else
My question now is whether or not the Skorpekh Lord will lose the -1 to hit on his blade
It's interesting, to be sure, but what makes it fluffy?
The Necrons are far more technologically advanced than the other 40k races. Their tech is from the time of war in heaven when their opponents were far more advanced than 40k races. Because of this, their vehicles are not tough and covered in thick armour like 40k races (because that wouldn't help against the super powered weaponry of the war in heaven), instead they have energy shields designed to shrug of ridiculously powerful shots.
The current QS rules are great at representing this because really powerful weapons that do 6 damage are useless against it. The way to beat it is with lower tech, low damage weapons that the Necrons did not used to have to worry about. It allows the Necrons to have rules that represent their superior technology, without breaking the game.
I suspect the old QS rule prevented GW from increasing the damage of weapons in the game without having it become broken. We will probably be seeing more weapons doing damage along the lines of the Death ray, Anihilator Beam, and close range melta in the new codexes.
This actually makes a surprising amount of sense if you figure Orks into the equation. Weren't Orks originally created by the Old Ones to combat the C'tan and Necrons? Can't get much lower tech then a greenskin, riding a boar & attacking with a stone spear...
And thinking about it, a technomancer with cloak might be good to run forward if you're fielding skorpekh to help keep them fighting, it can mitigate the one killed from the plasmacyte if nothing else
My question now is whether or not the Skorpekh Lord will lose the -1 to hit on his blade
It's 2-5 Veterans and they have 1 mandatory Veteran Sergeant, so in reality the modelcount of the unit is 3-6.
And thinking about it, a technomancer with cloak might be good to run forward if you're fielding skorpekh to help keep them fighting, it can mitigate the one killed from the plasmacyte if nothing else
My question now is whether or not the Skorpekh Lord will lose the -1 to hit on his blade
It's 2-5 Veterans and they have 1 mandatory Veteran Sergeant, so in reality the modelcount of the unit is 3-6.
Oh gotcha, I'm used to having the profiles grouped together, so that makes more sense
Claas wrote: I might paint an army like this just to make my opponents brain melt from lookyimg ab frum folky Ann Urug
Perhaps a bit old - but just wanted to say I was half tempted by something similar to this scheme, but just don't think I could do it justice.
And as people say, it kind of hurts the eyes. Sort has the Bad Moon effect - one model looks great, a whole army just is an indistinguishable sea of colour.
Not sure if *anyone* will get this reference, but it reminds me of X:\ No Way Out, a Theme Park ride at Thorpe Park uh... 20+ years ago. Which I've weirdly always associated with Necrons.
The temptation continues. I wonder if you could make it work but don't use black. Which might mean the green/yellow doesn't pop as much - but it might mean the detail on models doesn't melt away.
Lord Clinto wrote: This actually makes a surprising amount of sense if you figure Orks into the equation. Weren't Orks originally created by the Old Ones to combat the C'tan and Necrons? Can't get much lower tech then a greenskin, riding a boar & attacking with a stone spear...
You might want to have a look at the ork tech. Much of it is more advanced than what the imperium has and on the same level als eldar and necron tech.
Their primary function was to provide masses of rank&file troops to overwhelm the numerically limited necrons while the eldar were created to be superior elite warriors.
Lord Clinto wrote: This actually makes a surprising amount of sense if you figure Orks into the equation. Weren't Orks originally created by the Old Ones to combat the C'tan and Necrons? Can't get much lower tech then a greenskin, riding a boar & attacking with a stone spear...
You might want to have a look at the ork tech. Much of it is more advanced than what the imperium has and on the same level als eldar and necron tech.
Their primary function was to provide masses of rank&file troops to overwhelm the numerically limited necrons while the eldar were created to be superior elite warriors.
Yeah orks can make an entire moon into a death star
Sasori, being of impeccable standards, posted this in the News and Rumors thread, figured I'd put it here for him
Sasori wrote: Royal Court:
• If the silent king is in your army, he must be the warlord.
• If not, if you have a Phaeron, he must be your warlord
• If not, if you have a “Tetraque” he must be your warlord
• If not, if you have a Dynasty character, he must be your warlord
• If not, choose warlord normally
Dynastic Agents and Star Gods
• Dynastic Agents and C’tan shards can be included in necron detachments without preventing them from getting dynastic codes
• Dynastic Agents and C’tan shards Never get dynastic codes
Custom Dynasties:
• Pick a dynastic tradition and a condition of awakening
• If picked Royal Vassal, do not get condition of awakening
Dynastic Conditions:
o Eternal conquerors:
All models with this code have OBSEC.
If a model already had OBSEC, they count as one additional model
o Ruthless hunters
Essentially bolter drill
Can rapid fire at max range if infantry model stood still
o Majestic artisans
Each time this unit is chosen to shoot or fight re-roll one wound roll per unit
o Radiation halo
All units have the following aura: as long as an enemy unit is within 1 inch of this unit, subtract 1 from its Toughness
o Immovable Phalanx
Whenever an attack with a wound characteristic of 1 is allocated to an infantry model with this code, and that model did not move, advance or fall back this battle round, add 1 to any armor save against the attack
o Inflexible
6+ invuln
o Disdain for the codes
Add one to hit rolls for attacks made against characters
o Ruthless horde
Re-roll morale tests
o Martial masters
Each time this unit is chosen to shoot or fight re-roll one hit roll per unit
o Butchers
Add 1 to charge rolls
o Brocken
Units benefit from command protocols if they are within 9 inches of a necron character instead of 6
o Royal Vassal
Get to pick one of the normal dynastic codes
Condition of Awakening:
o The ancients stir
Add one to Canoptek units
Canoptik units Can pile in and consolidate 4 inches
o Fight the intruders
Melee attacks against infantry or bikers auto-wound on unmodified hit rolls of 6.
o Saine paranoia
Add 3 inches to the range of pistols
o Implacable expansionist
At the beginning of the first battle round and before starting the first turn, all units with this code can move 6 inches
o Isolationists
Each time a model makes an attack with a rapid-fire weapon against a target within 12 inches, at one to the strength of the attack
o Noble warriors
Each time a noble makes a melee attack, reroll all hit and wound rolls of 1
o Interplanetary invaders
Vehicles can fall-back and shoot at -1 to hit.
Vehicles can shoot heavy weapons into combat without the normal -1 penalty
Name
CP Ability
Dimensional Corridor
1
Select a CORE <DYNASTY> unit, remove it from the battlefield and place it wholly within 3” of a MONOLITH and more than 9” away from enemy models
Techno Ocular Aiming
1
Use in the shooting phase, one wound automatically wounds
Extermination Protocols
2
Use in the shooting phase select a unit of LOKHURST DESTROYERS or heavy LOKHURST DESTROYERS, re roll all wound rolls for this unit this phase
Blade Tornado
2
Use at the end of the combat phase, one unit of FLAYED ONES can fight again
Fractal Aim
1
Use in the shooting phase, select a TOMB BLADE unit, that unit treats all rapid fire weapons as assault 2 and can advance and shoot without penalty
Eternal Protectors
1
Use in the fight phase, select a <DYNASTY> unit, as long as it is within 3” of a DYNASTY NOBLE, add 1 to models attack characteristic
Resurrection Protocols
1
Use this strategem when a NOBLE or CRYPTEK INFANTRY unit dies, roll a D6, on a 4+ put the model back as close as possible to where it died, this effect cannot be used with any other ability that triggers on this models death. Can only be used once per game
Strange Echos
1
Use in your command phase, select a C’TAN SHARD unit from your army, replace one of its C’tan powers with a new power
The Undying rise
1
Use in the command phase, select a TECHNOMANCER, that unit can use its rites of reanimation one additional time this phase
Dimensional Instability
2/1
Use at the end of your movement phase when a C’TAN SHARD uses a C’tan power, roll a D6 on the C’tan power table, you may cast the corresponding C’tan power even if it has already been cast this turn, this stratagem costs 2CP for TITANIC units
Entropic Strike
1
Use in the fight phase when a C’TAN SHARD is chosen to fight, this unit ignores invulnerable saves until the end of the phase
Dynastic Heritage
1
Use before the battle as long as your warlord is a NECRON. Choose a NECRON CHARCTER(execpt C’TAN SHARDS), the chosen model gains a relic, this stratagem can be used once, or twice in a strike force mission
Hand of the Phareon
2
Not sure
Rare Nobility
1
Use before the battle as long as your warlord is a NECRON. Choose a NECRON CHARCTER(execpt C’TAN SHARDS), the chosen model gains a warlord trait, this stratagem can be used once, or twice in a strike force mission
Enslaved protectors
1
Select a CANOPTEKunit, until your next command phase this unit can heroicly intervene as if it were a character
Stellar Allignment Protocol
2/1
Use in the command phase, select a NECRON VEHICLE with 10 or more wounds, this unit counts as being on its top profile until your next command phase, this costs 2CP on a TITANIC unit
Priority Reanimation
2
Use this trategem in the enemy’s shooting phase whena friendly NECRON unit is chosen as the target of an attack. Select a CANOPTEK REANIMATOR within 6” of the targeted unit. That unit can use its nano-scarab reanimation beams as if where your command phase, the unit previously affected by the beam isnt affected anymore
Burrowing nightmares
1
Use at the start of your movement hase, select an OPHYDSIAN DESTROYER unit, remove this unit from the battlefield and place it in reinforcements. At the start of your next movement phase this unit can be setup anywhere on the battlefield more than 9” away from an enemy models
Self Destruction
1
Use in the fight phase, select a CANOPTEK SCARD SWARM unit that has been selected to fight. Select one model in the unit after it has finished piling in, select an enemy unit within engagement range of that model and roll a D6, on a 2-5 the unit suffers D3 mortal wounds, on a 6 it suffers 3 mortal wounds, remove the CANOPTEK SCARB SWARM model from the gamel
Prismatic Dimensional Breach
1
Use this stategem at the end of your movement phase, select a <DYNASTY> CORE> unit from strategic reserves, then choose a friendly <DYNASTY> MONOLITH or NIGHT SCYTHE, place the chosen CORE unit anywhere wholly within 3” and outside engagement range of any enemy models. This cannot be used during the first battle round
Shadows of Drazakh
1
Use this trategem in any phase where a friendly FLAYED ONES unit is chosen as the target of an attack, until the end of the phase subtract one from any hit rolls that target the unit
Aetheral Inception
1
Not sure
Relentless onslaught
1
Use during your shooting phase when a CORE INFANTRY unit is chosen to shoot. Until the end of the phase rapid fire weapons cause an additional hit on each on each unmodified hit roll of a six
Phareon Curse
3/1
Use this stratagem when a friendly NECRON VEHICLEis destroyed, this unit automatically explodes, if it is a titanic unit this costs 3CP
Atavic Instigation
1
Not sure
Doomstalker’s revenge
2
Use in any phase, when a friendly CHARACTER <DYNASTY> unit is destroyed by an enemy unit, select a <DYNASTY> CANOPTEK DOOMSTALKER from your army, that unit may shoot at the end of this phase at the unit that destroyed the CHARACTER and for the rest of the game gains plus one to hit against the enemy unit
Disruptive fields
1
Uwe this stratagem in the fight phase when a NECRON CORE unit is chosen to fight, add one strength to the strength characteristic of models in the chosen unit
Disintegration Capacitors
1
Use in yout shooting phase when a NECRON unit is chosen to shoot, gauss weapons in the unit automatically wound the target on unmodified hit rolls of 6
Malevolent arcing
1
Use in you shooting phase when a friendly NECRON unit fires a tesla weapon, after making that weapons attack rolls, roll a D6 for each other unit within 6”, on a 4+ the unit suffers 1 mortal wound
Whirling Assault
1
Use when a SKORPECH DESTROYER or SKORPECH LORD unit is chosen as the target of an attack, until the end of the phase subtract 1 from hit rolls that target this unit
Quantic Deflection
1
Use when a unit with quantum shielding is targeted, until the end of the phase that units models have a 4+ invulnerable save
Solar Impulse
1
Use in your shooting phase, select an enemy unit, that unit does not receive the benefits of cover
Reconstitution Protocols
1
Use in the command phase, select a GHOST ARK unit from your army, when this unit uses its repair barge ability you can bring back D6 models instead of D3
Name
CP Ability
Dimensional Corridor
1
Select a CORE <DYNASTY> unit, remove it from the battlefield and place it wholly within 3” of a MONOLITH and more than 9” away from enemy models
Techno Ocular Aiming
1
Use in the shooting phase, one wound automatically wounds
Extermination Protocols
2
Use in the shooting phase select a unit of LOKHURST DESTROYERS or heavy LOKHURST DESTROYERS, re roll all wound rolls for this unit this phase
Blade Tornado
2
Use at the end of the combat phase, one unit of FLAYED ONES can fight again
Fractal Aim
1
Use in the shooting phase, select a TOMB BLADE unit, that unit treats all rapid fire weapons as assault 2 and can advance and shoot without penalty
Eternal Protectors
1
Use in the fight phase, select a <DYNASTY> unit, as long as it is within 3” of a DYNASTY NOBLE, add 1 to models attack characteristic
Resurrection Protocols
1
Use this strategem when a NOBLE or CRYPTEK INFANTRY unit dies, roll a D6, on a 4+ put the model back as close as possible to where it died, this effect cannot be used with any other ability that triggers on this models death. Can only be used once per game
Strange Echos
1
Use in your command phase, select a C’TAN SHARD unit from your army, replace one of its C’tan powers with a new power
The Undying rise
1
Use in the command phase, select a TECHNOMANCER, that unit can use its rites of reanimation one additional time this phase
Dimensional Instability
2/1
Use at the end of your movement phase when a C’TAN SHARD uses a C’tan power, roll a D6 on the C’tan power table, you may cast the corresponding C’tan power even if it has already been cast this turn, this stratagem costs 2CP for TITANIC units
Entropic Strike
1
Use in the fight phase when a C’TAN SHARD is chosen to fight, this unit ignores invulnerable saves until the end of the phase
Dynastic Heritage
1
Use before the battle as long as your warlord is a NECRON. Choose a NECRON CHARCTER(execpt C’TAN SHARDS), the chosen model gains a relic, this stratagem can be used once, or twice in a strike force mission
Hand of the Phareon
2
Not sure
Rare Nobility
1
Use before the battle as long as your warlord is a NECRON. Choose a NECRON CHARCTER(execpt C’TAN SHARDS), the chosen model gains a warlord trait, this stratagem can be used once, or twice in a strike force mission
Enslaved protectors
1
Select a CANOPTEKunit, until your next command phase this unit can heroicly intervene as if it were a character
Stellar Allignment Protocol
2/1
Use in the command phase, select a NECRON VEHICLE with 10 or more wounds, this unit counts as being on its top profile until your next command phase, this costs 2CP on a TITANIC unit
Priority Reanimation
2
Use this trategem in the enemy’s shooting phase whena friendly NECRON unit is chosen as the target of an attack. Select a CANOPTEK REANIMATOR within 6” of the targeted unit. That unit can use its nano-scarab reanimation beams as if where your command phase, the unit previously affected by the beam isnt affected anymore
Burrowing nightmares
1
Use at the start of your movement hase, select an OPHYDSIAN DESTROYER unit, remove this unit from the battlefield and place it in reinforcements. At the start of your next movement phase this unit can be setup anywhere on the battlefield more than 9” away from an enemy models
Self Destruction
1
Use in the fight phase, select a CANOPTEK SCARD SWARM unit that has been selected to fight. Select one model in the unit after it has finished piling in, select an enemy unit within engagement range of that model and roll a D6, on a 2-5 the unit suffers D3 mortal wounds, on a 6 it suffers 3 mortal wounds, remove the CANOPTEK SCARB SWARM model from the gamel
Prismatic Dimensional Breach
1
Use this stategem at the end of your movement phase, select a <DYNASTY> CORE> unit from strategic reserves, then choose a friendly <DYNASTY> MONOLITH or NIGHT SCYTHE, place the chosen CORE unit anywhere wholly within 3” and outside engagement range of any enemy models. This cannot be used during the first battle round
Shadows of Drazakh
1
Use this trategem in any phase where a friendly FLAYED ONES unit is chosen as the target of an attack, until the end of the phase subtract one from any hit rolls that target the unit
Aetheral Inception
1
Not sure
Relentless onslaught
1
Use during your shooting phase when a CORE INFANTRY unit is chosen to shoot. Until the end of the phase rapid fire weapons cause an additional hit on each on each unmodified hit roll of a six
Phareon Curse
3/1
Use this stratagem when a friendly NECRON VEHICLEis destroyed, this unit automatically explodes, if it is a titanic unit this costs 3CP
Atavic Instigation
1
Not sure
Doomstalker’s revenge
2
Use in any phase, when a friendly CHARACTER <DYNASTY> unit is destroyed by an enemy unit, select a <DYNASTY> CANOPTEK DOOMSTALKER from your army, that unit may shoot at the end of this phase at the unit that destroyed the CHARACTER and for the rest of the game gains plus one to hit against the enemy unit
Disruptive fields
1
Uwe this stratagem in the fight phase when a NECRON CORE unit is chosen to fight, add one strength to the strength characteristic of models in the chosen unit
Disintegration Capacitors
1
Use in yout shooting phase when a NECRON unit is chosen to shoot, gauss weapons in the unit automatically wound the target on unmodified hit rolls of 6
Malevolent arcing
1
Use in you shooting phase when a friendly NECRON unit fires a tesla weapon, after making that weapons attack rolls, roll a D6 for each other unit within 6”, on a 4+ the unit suffers 1 mortal wound
Whirling Assault
1
Use when a SKORPECH DESTROYER or SKORPECH LORD unit is chosen as the target of an attack, until the end of the phase subtract 1 from hit rolls that target this unit
Quantic Deflection
1
Use when a unit with quantum shielding is targeted, until the end of the phase that units models have a 4+ invulnerable save
Solar Impulse
1
Use in your shooting phase, select an enemy unit, that unit does not receive the benefits of cover
Reconstitution Protocols
1
Use in the command phase, select a GHOST ARK unit from your army, when this unit uses its repair barge ability you can bring back D6 models instead of D3
'Hand of the Phaeron' is on Warhammer Community. Didn't see 'The Deathless Arise' stratagem on the list, nor the Szarekhan's 'Empyric Damping' so it may not have the Dynasty specific Stratagems.
The French Translation calls it the Undying rise, which is on there.
Let me grab the Dynastic specific ones.
Mephrit
1
Use in the shooting phase when a MEPHRIT unit from your army is selected to shoot, until the end of the phase each time a model makes an attack an unmodified hit roll of 6 generates a mortal wound in addition to any other damage(Max 3 mortal wounds per phase)
Nephrekh
1
Use before the battle when declaring reserves, choose a nephrekh unit except for VEHICLES or MONSTER, that unit gains the translocation beam ability
Nihilakh
1
Use in the shooting phase, choose a NIHILAKH INFANTRY unit that is completing an action, that unit may shoot without failing the action
Sautekh
2
Use in the shooting phase after a SAUTEKH unit finishes its attack, choose an enemy unit that was targeted by the SAUTEKH unit, until the end of phase other SAUTEKH units add one to hit rolls against the chosen enemy unit
Szarekhan
1
Use in the psychic phase after and enemy PSYKER tries to manifest a psychic power within 18” of a SZAREKHAN unit, roll a D6 on a 4+ it gets denied
Novokh
1
Use in the fight phase, when a NOVOKH unit is chosen to fight add 1 to models in the units attack characteristic
I'm a little surprised that the powers of the c'tan have all remained relatively interchangeable MW-causing abilities, and they added a few more which do MW in different ways. There are so many cool things they could do as well as just various amounts of MW.
Twilight Pathways wrote: I'm a little surprised that the powers of the c'tan have all remained relatively interchangeable MW-causing abilities, and they added a few more which do MW in different ways. There are so many cool things they could do as well as just various amounts of MW.
GW has honestly had a problem with mortal wounds ever since they introduced the concept, and in both 40k and AoS. It should be something exceptional, rare and dangerous. Instead it has ended up as a trickle you can just spam at will. In the 'right' armies.
But it always seems to supersede characterful abilities, because presumably its an easier thing to balance, and there isn't much of a problem with 'unexpected' interactions.
• If not, if you have a “Tetraque” he must be your warlord
Probably "Tétrarque" (French for "Tetrarch") and likely the French name for the Overlord.
Yeah, that's just the French word for an Overlord. Its been that way since 5th ed.
Personally I think its a terrible translation, as a Tetraque actually refers to a very specific form of government in a very specific time period.
A more accurate translation would have been something like Suzerain or Haut-Seigneur.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote: The French Translation calls it the Undying rise, which is on there.
Let me grab the Dynastic specific ones.
Mephrit
1
Use in the shooting phase when a MEPHRIT unit from your army is selected to shoot, until the end of the phase each time a model makes an attack an unmodified hit roll of 6 generates a mortal wound in addition to any other damage(Max 3 mortal wounds per phase)
Nephrekh
1
Use before the battle when declaring reserves, choose a nephrekh unit except for VEHICLES or MONSTER, that unit gains the translocation beam ability
Nihilakh
1
Use in the shooting phase, choose a NIHILAKH INFANTRY unit that is completing an action, that unit may shoot without failing the action
Sautekh
2
Use in the shooting phase after a SAUTEKH unit finishes its attack, choose an enemy unit that was targeted by the SAUTEKH unit, until the end of phase other SAUTEKH units add one to hit rolls against the chosen enemy unit
Szarekhan
1
Use in the psychic phase after and enemy PSYKER tries to manifest a psychic power within 18” of a SZAREKHAN unit, roll a D6 on a 4+ it gets denied
Novokh
1
Use in the fight phase, when a NOVOKH unit is chosen to fight add 1 to models in the units attack characteristic
Supposedly the Gauss Reaper is now assault 2 range 12"? A buff in most situations - but I find it interesting for how the Sautekh interaction felt a bit weird, and they've just gone "nah, ignore completely".
Lol. Did the guys writing indominatus rules and codex happen to be separate and not talk with each other?-) Hehe. Well nice solid buff for them. 13 pts hurts though
tneva82 wrote: Lol. Did the guys writing indominatus rules and codex happen to be separate and not talk with each other?-) Hehe. Well nice solid buff for them. 13 pts hurts though
Well multiple teams didn't know AoS existed till it appeared.
That said its more likely that Indomtius was sent to the printers before the Codex since it was coming out sooner and was a more complex production run (it had multiple parts to it whilst the codex is just one thing). So it might well be Indomitus used a slightly earlier version of the balanced points system and the codex continued development for a while after. Plus Indomitus might have been adjusted to try and internally balance the two forces a bit against each other for start up games.
Also made my order - a simple Codex and Doomstalker for me. That said its also because I'm considering a 4th Indomitus set so I can have 2 units of 6 destroyers; another 20 warriors and another reanimator which I want to use for a conversion. Considering most troops are at least £20 if not £30 for a set these days those spare leaders are pretty much free in the split Indomitus sets right now.
Lots of details. (also long, and I suspect the author's enthusiasm at a new codex that doesn't completely suck is obscuring some issues and overstating others)
CORE units are non-Canoptek units that are also sane. (Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard, Deathmarks, Tomb Blades) Praetorians answer to a higher power so they aren't Core (but get stuff from the SK, as he is the 'higher power')
This limits MWBD and Relentless March a lot. The folks who did the Indomitus profile (or the editors) were really on a different planet.
Expected Weirdness:
The 'lokhust lord' is just the old destroyer lord
Flayed Ones aren't core. [The author makes a weird deal about not understanding this, but fluffwise, flayed ones are bizarre aberrations that are despised and outcast. Of course they aren't Core.]
Unexpected Weirdness:
If the unit has more than one model, it gets RP. If a model has more than 1 wound, it gets living metal. Yes. Including C'tan.
Spyders wandered into the Elite slot.
Praetorians are in Fast Attack now.
'Lokhust' Destroyers are all in HS now.
Nightbringer is the god of murder.
--replacement gaze attack averages about 10 MW.
-- has a sweep attack that works out to 12 attacks
-- alternately has a big attack that ignores everything: Invulnerable, feel no pain, ghaghkull's/necrodermis damage limit ability, all nothing to this.
-- It might be possible that the Nightbringer can one-round anything in the game.
-- Shame about the finecast model, though.
Most Disappointing Weirdness:
Monolith
But why though? Extra expensive and costs CP and all the other issues is just... ugh. I wasn't even sold on the new kit in the first place, and this puts it at 'never buy.' Even with more wounds and a 2+ save
One good thing I'm seeing about both books is the points section got a much needed formatting and readability upgrade
Monolith is a lord of war.
Flayed ones don't have core, and my will be done is core only
praetorians are fast attack
Scarabs get living metal
Scythe is a transport 20 unit
Normal destroyer with Gauss cannons are still a thing
Both praetorians and lych guard have living metal
To read the review, the C'Tan sound bonkers - but then the named ones are 350, which is getting up towards the cheapest Knight territory/ 50% more than a greater daemon, so they'd kind of have to be.
Necrodermis rule etc - but I think some armies may be able to reasonably reliably pop the 9 wounds in 3 phases, which is a bit awkward. But then with living metal, and potentially other buffs, if you come up against an army that can only do damage in 1-2 phases, they are never going to die.
I don't know why Flayed Ones not being Core is weird. They're basically a bunch of corrupted nutjobs who turn up uninvited from their creepy blood dimension and everyone just tries their best to make it work out.
Sim-Life wrote: I don't know why Flayed Ones not being Core is weird. They're basically a bunch of corrupted nutjobs who turn up uninvited from their creepy blood dimension and everyone just tries their best to make it work out.
I think its just the Goonhammer view of the game. Its very tournament focused and fluff often feels left out.
But they do pretty good summaries if you can keep their viewpoint in mind.
Sim-Life wrote: I don't know why Flayed Ones not being Core is weird. They're basically a bunch of corrupted nutjobs who turn up uninvited from their creepy blood dimension and everyone just tries their best to make it work out.
Fluffwise yes - although there are questions of how *elite* they meaningfully are, and flayer kingdoms have been a common Necron archetype more or less since the 5th edition retcon. It feels historically they've always been elite just because they get deep strike, which GW don't want on what amounts to an "assault warrior" having.
All in all, I don't think this will effect things very much, but it just seems a bit mean given how far and wide Core seems to go in the Marines book. Hard to see how giving them say My Will Be Done would break the game.
Sim-Life wrote: I don't know why Flayed Ones not being Core is weird. They're basically a bunch of corrupted nutjobs who turn up uninvited from their creepy blood dimension and everyone just tries their best to make it work out.
Fluffwise yes - although there are questions of how *elite* they meaningfully are, and flayer kingdoms have been a common Necron archetype more or less since the 5th edition retcon. It feels historically they've always been elite just because they get deep strike, which GW don't want on what amounts to an "assault warrior" having.
All in all, I don't think this will effect things very much, but it just seems a bit mean given how far and wide Core seems to go in the Marines book. Hard to see how giving them say My Will Be Done would break the game.
I kind of get the marine Core thing. Yes, its a huge difference and pretty stark in game terms, but its downright weird to say that a fully fledged space marine somehow isn't Core anymore when he picks up a different gun
The major difference is Necrons have a huge servitor class in Canoptek, and a pile of crazies. Both have 'fluffy' reasons not to be considered Core to a Necron legion.
The deep strike aspect is also true, but I feel less bad about that, given that marine Scouts have been summarily booted from Troops (and thus ObSec).
'Elite' doesn't have the same meaning any more with scouts and spyders joining that category. It now seems to be a catch all category: not troops, but also not fast attack or big guns.
I think that goonhammer have made slightly too big a deal of the Nightbringer. Yeah, he's good and will probably 1v1 anything in the game in melee. But he's 350 points. You'd think at that price point, the C'tan would move more than 8" and probably should have a 2+ save
Nightbringer is the god of murder.
--replacement gaze attack averages about 10 MW.
10? 3 rolls, 4+ d3 mw. 4.5 mw more like it.
3d6 rolls- average 10,
works on 4+, from 10, average is 5 successes.
d3 mortal wounds each, average is 2.
5*2=10
That article doesn't say you roll 3d6 time for 4+. If you read it even says "kills 4 wound characters half the time".
I beliere guy who wrote the article. He has seen codex. have you? Article writer says you roll 3 times. Not 3d6 times
3 times, 4+ so 1.5 times. D3 is 2 so 3. 50% times you get 2 success which averages 4 wounds(though this means you kill 4w character less than half the time. Error on article writer)
Cynista wrote: I think that goonhammer have made slightly too big a deal of the Nightbringer. Yeah, he's good and will probably 1v1 anything in the game in melee. But he's 350 points. You'd think at that price point, the C'tan would move more than 8" and probably should have a 2+ save
His survivability is tied up in the fact that he has the Character rule and necrodermis. You don't want him zooming off ahead of your army.
Cynista wrote: I think that goonhammer have made slightly too big a deal of the Nightbringer. Yeah, he's good and will probably 1v1 anything in the game in melee. But he's 350 points. You'd think at that price point, the C'tan would move more than 8" and probably should have a 2+ save
He has a 4++ invulnerable save, he cannot lose more than 3 wounds per phase, he has 9 wounds and he heals 1 wound at the beginning of each command phase. He ignores invulnerable saves and FnP and he hits like a monster truck against hordes and elites.
He is a nightmare to deal with if your army deals most of its damage in a single phase (looking at you, T'au, most Knights and IG), his profile does not degrade and he murders everything he touches.
He fully deserves to be that expensive. Because of its price, he is (probably) not auto-include and rightfully so.
Nightbringer is the god of murder.
--replacement gaze attack averages about 10 MW.
10? 3 rolls, 4+ d3 mw. 4.5 mw more like it.
3d6 rolls- average 10,
works on 4+, from 10, average is 5 successes.
d3 mortal wounds each, average is 2.
5*2=10
That article doesn't say you roll 3d6 time for 4+. If you read it even says "kills 4 wound characters half the time".
I beliere guy who wrote the article. He has seen codex. have you? Article writer says you roll 3 times. Not 3d6 times
3 times, 4+ so 1.5 times. D3 is 2 so 3. 50% times you get 2 success which averages 4 wounds(though this means you kill 4w character less than half the time. Error on article writer)
Ah. I misread. My bad
I thought he was saying you rolled 3d6 for the number of rolls, which is a very GW thing to do.
the 'murdering 4W characters half the time. NBD.' read like gibberish to me so I ignored it (still have no idea what the 'NBD' is supposed to stand for).
The nightbringer is... brutally OP. C'tan are some of the toughest models in the game now, and the nightbringer is a hard counter to everything but the largest horde units.
Like, legit, I think the nightbringer can kill 2000 points of custodes before 2000 points of custodes can kill it XD.
The monolith being a LoW is a weird choice unless they change how LoW interact with force orgs. Cause, otherwise, this thing is probably not getting taken.
nerf to old destroyers is fine in the context of the book getting a big ol' boost overall, they'd be pretty brutal if they kept the same goodies they had in 8th where they were one of a handful of things worth taking.
Sim-Life wrote:
His survivability is tied up in the fact that he has the Character rule and necrodermis. You don't want him zooming off ahead of your army.
In the article it mentions that C'tan specifically do not benefit from Look out Sir.
Selfcontrol wrote:He fully deserves to be that expensive. Because of its price, he is (probably) not auto-include and rightfully so.
Sim-Life wrote: I don't know why Flayed Ones not being Core is weird. They're basically a bunch of corrupted nutjobs who turn up uninvited from their creepy blood dimension and everyone just tries their best to make it work out.
Fluffwise yes - although there are questions of how *elite* they meaningfully are, and flayer kingdoms have been a common Necron archetype more or less since the 5th edition retcon. It feels historically they've always been elite just because they get deep strike, which GW don't want on what amounts to an "assault warrior" having.
All in all, I don't think this will effect things very much, but it just seems a bit mean given how far and wide Core seems to go in the Marines book. Hard to see how giving them say My Will Be Done would break the game.
eliteness or not doesn't seem to factor into what is core. Again, marines have almost every infantry and dreadnought model acting as core, including all their incredibly bloated non character elite slot infantry and dreadnoughts.
Goonhammer specified deceiver to have 3 att, and nightbringer have one more. straight ignore inv is good, but I think if you're fighting with a c'tan you're spending entropic strike.
He's definitely [b]very[b/] good, but I feel like OneWing is maybe a little excited about him. 350 points is a fair price.
Hmm, actually, Living metal + necrodermis + powers. Maybe I'm wrong.
Regardless, will be interesting to see lists incorporating him, or any other c'tan, and seeing how the meta adjusts to deal with them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nevermind. He has 6 attacks. Yeah, this boy looking nice.
Maybe time to break out the 5 immortals nightbringer I own from when I started...
Goonhammer specified deceiver to have 3 att, and nightbringer have one more. straight ignore inv is good, but I think if you're fighting with a c'tan you're spending entropic strike.
He's definitely [b]very[b/] good, but I feel like OneWing is maybe a little excited about him. 350 points is a fair price.
Hmm, actually, Living metal + necrodermis + powers. Maybe I'm wrong.
Regardless, will be interesting to see lists incorporating him, or any other c'tan, and seeing how the meta adjusts to deal with them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nevermind. He has 6 attacks. Yeah, this boy looking nice.
Maybe time to break out the 5 immortals nightbringer I own from when I started...
The Nightbringer doens't need entropic strike for his heavy swing. He ignores invulns and damage reduction by default on that.
Goonhammer specified deceiver to have 3 att, and nightbringer have one more. straight ignore inv is good, but I think if you're fighting with a c'tan you're spending entropic strike.
He's definitely [b]very[b/] good, but I feel like OneWing is maybe a little excited about him. 350 points is a fair price.
Hmm, actually, Living metal + necrodermis + powers. Maybe I'm wrong.
Regardless, will be interesting to see lists incorporating him, or any other c'tan, and seeing how the meta adjusts to deal with them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nevermind. He has 6 attacks. Yeah, this boy looking nice.
Maybe time to break out the 5 immortals nightbringer I own from when I started...
He also ignors FNP and his own damage limiting abilities, which makes him key even in the ork matchup where he'd otherwise struggle a bit to clear 30 boyz for an effective cost. But he's able to 1 round ghaz, which is a huge tool in the ork playbook.
He also one rounds the demon primarchs, which is very strong. Essentially he takes out units that aren't normally killable by the enemy very cost effectively.
That said, I am being a bit facetious about the eradicators. He's better than a hypothetical 9 man squad for his points, but 3 by 3 eradicators have board flexibility he lacks and so, while he can kil the handful of models they can't, they don't suffer the same overkill limit he does. Though they are even worser against hordes and, like, harlies. The nightbringer absolutely mercs harlies and still can output enough attacks against a horde to clear them, just not with great points efficiency.
vipoid wrote: Good to confirm that my favourite relic from the 8th edition codex, the Nanoscarab Casket, has been nerfed into utter oblivion.
Thank you for that, GW.
My favourite relic, the Voidreaper, was also slightly nerfed for seemingly no good reason.
I really want to run a Destroyer Lord (either Skorpekh or Lokhust) as a beatstick but it doesn't seem very viable unless you run it with a unit of melee Destroyers, which I'm not sure about since saving points is the aim of the game if our big new toys are this expensive. I wish they could buff non Destroyer units.
Also, has anyone managed to find any pictures of the datasheets or this all second hand knowledge?
Summaries mostly, a few images.
Standard readthrough here (well, standard for a _2 hour_ readthrough, so fair warning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obzhpIGQRyM Rules start about 7:30 or so
Datasheets start at 1:23:30 (yes, almost an hour and a half in), sadly and bizarrely he starts skipping through them and doesn't do a thorough look like everything else in the book.
And oh for... gaah.
The books are a different size. Slightly longer spine-to-edge, and slightly taller. May not fit on the same shelves.
Books do have color coded tabs, but they've reordered a lot of stuff. Dynasties, Strats, traits, rules, etc are before the unit roster now.
vipoid wrote: Good to confirm that my favourite relic from the 8th edition codex, the Nanoscarab Casket, has been nerfed into utter oblivion.
Thank you for that, GW.
My favourite relic, the Voidreaper, was also slightly nerfed for seemingly no good reason.
I really want to run a Destroyer Lord (either Skorpekh or Lokhust) as a beatstick but it doesn't seem very viable unless you run it with a unit of melee Destroyers, which I'm not sure about since saving points is the aim of the game if our big new toys are this expensive. I wish they could buff non Destroyer units.
Yeah, I really don't get some of these nerfs.
I'm also irritated that the Staff of Light stayed at D1 and the Warscythe at D2. Why do our weapons have to be such utter garbage? These stats were poor even in the index era, but now SMs are running around with weapons with D3 or even D4.
vipoid wrote: Good to confirm that my favourite relic from the 8th edition codex, the Nanoscarab Casket, has been nerfed into utter oblivion.
Thank you for that, GW.
My favourite relic, the Voidreaper, was also slightly nerfed for seemingly no good reason.
I really want to run a Destroyer Lord (either Skorpekh or Lokhust) as a beatstick but it doesn't seem very viable unless you run it with a unit of melee Destroyers, which I'm not sure about since saving points is the aim of the game if our big new toys are this expensive. I wish they could buff non Destroyer units.
Yeah, I really don't get some of these nerfs.
I'm also irritated that the Staff of Light stayed at D1 and the Warscythe at D2. Why do our weapons have to be such utter garbage? These stats were poor even in the index era, but now SMs are running around with weapons with D3 or even D4.
100% it's very frustrating. I was secretly hoping to see Warscythe go to D3 and Voidreaper D4, very much in line with Marines. Oh well.....
I'm still waiting on the Lychguard datasheet to see if they can mix and match their weapons but I'm not hopeful
vipoid wrote: Good to confirm that my favourite relic from the 8th edition codex, the Nanoscarab Casket, has been nerfed into utter oblivion.
Thank you for that, GW.
My favourite relic, the Voidreaper, was also slightly nerfed for seemingly no good reason.
Kind of? It doesn't wound on 2+ against all non-vehicles (unless they're T3) but it now has 'rules that ignore wounds cannot be used' (so no FNP or the like).
That's pretty huge.
vipoid wrote: Good to confirm that my favourite relic from the 8th edition codex, the Nanoscarab Casket, has been nerfed into utter oblivion.
Thank you for that, GW.
My favourite relic, the Voidreaper, was also slightly nerfed for seemingly no good reason.
Kind of? It doesn't wound on 2+ against all non-vehicles (unless they're T3) but it now has 'rules that ignore wounds cannot be used' (so no FNP or the like).
That's pretty huge.
Wounding everything that bleeds on a 2+ was a really big deal though. It was the reason Destroyer Lords were good beatsticks vs big things. I know it has a new rule but just isn't as good
Got curious on nightbringer's actual chance of killing 4W character with his MW generator. Article was bit off with it's 50% claim. More accurate is 37% chance to oneshot 4W model(assuming no FNP). 23% for 5W. 12% for 6W.
To the surprise of no one, Marines get stuff like Dreadnoughts as core, whilst our Destroyers - which have been in Necrons since their very first appearance - clearly aren't core at all.
Well "Core" isn't about "oldest models" or units that are ancient in the army (because then the whole Necron army would be core). It's about a mechanic that fits a certain niche which GW feels the destroyers don't now fit into.
Which in a way is a good thing, it gives different units different up and downsides to them. The other extreme is AoS where there's only four unit blocks and broadly speaking for most of them all they are is a unit limit mechanic (eg you can only take X number of leaders/artillery and monsters)
Overread wrote: Well "Core" isn't about "oldest models" or units that are ancient in the army (because then the whole Necron army would be core). It's about a mechanic that fits a certain niche which GW feels the destroyers don't now fit into.
An how convenient that almost every non-vehicle Marine unit is core, whilst Necrons get barely any.
But I see we're still praising GW for this sort of gak, so I hold no hope of them changing.
Basically if its a Necron AND sane (and not Triarch), it gets Core. Canoptek doesn't get it, neither does destroyer anything. Nor vehicles, unsurprisingly.
Also the Goonhammer review does mention deathmarks:
Mechanical Augmentation can now target any Core unit, which puts Tomb Blades, Lychguard and Deathmarks on the table along with Warriors and Immortals.
and also when talking about the unit itself.
That’s enough that 10 of these are a real worry for enemy characters, especially as they’re base BS2+ and can be further buffed thanks to being CORE.
Overread wrote: Well "Core" isn't about "oldest models" or units that are ancient in the army (because then the whole Necron army would be core). It's about a mechanic that fits a certain niche which GW feels the destroyers don't now fit into.
An how convenient that almost every non-vehicle Marine unit is core, whilst Necrons get barely any.
But I see we're still praising GW for this sort of gak, so I hold no hope of them changing.
Yes but Necrons aren't Marines. You can't just cherry pick "core" as one metric to compare them because it is bound to fail. Some armies will have more core and some will have less. What's important isn't the amount or lack of core, but how the whole army balances and adds up. Necrons just might not need so many core options to make the army work.
Overread wrote: Well "Core" isn't about "oldest models" or units that are ancient in the army (because then the whole Necron army would be core). It's about a mechanic that fits a certain niche which GW feels the destroyers don't now fit into.
Which in a way is a good thing, it gives different units different up and downsides to them. The other extreme is AoS where there's only four unit blocks and broadly speaking for most of them all they are is a unit limit mechanic (eg you can only take X number of leaders/artillery and monsters)
It would be a good thing if they had been a bit more judicious with core in SM. Necrons get a whole cross section of units with support characters breaking down into different sections of the army. Spaces marine characters apply to everyone in army except vehicles. Maybe they could have taken the same idea and made certain characters give bonuses to units instead of the easy way out. I mean it'd give a point for the 5 different primaris captain datasheets they keep putting out other than their slavish devotion of forcing you to play models exactly how they are in a kit, no conversions allowed.
It makes me worry about what they are going to do with core as other armies go forward. Will they take the standard space marine everyone is core? Or are they giving future armies the same diversity of keywords and supporting characters like they did the necrons?
It almost feels like GW thinks marine players are too dumb to manage their army if they separated specialist units out with their own supporting characters too much, so everything gets all the bonuses except tanks. And centurions. I think the current game writers feel like centurions were a mistake XD.
CKO wrote: Thanks guys, with Dynastic Traditions and Circumstances of Awakening, what exactly does Royal Vassal do?
Royal Vassal is pretty much exactly like the 'Inheritors of the Primarch' trait in the current SM codex. Its the 'use your own color scheme, but the Chapter Tactics of a known Chapter.' Or Dynasty in this case.
So if you pick Vassal, you _don't_ get a Circumstance of Awakening, and use Mephrit, Novokh, Nepherek, Sautek, Szarken or Nihilaik Dynasty rules instead.
@stratigo, for marines I think they're going off of training, where the tactical squad is the end result of marine training before you get into veterans and promotions. Fluffwise marines progress from scout->assault->devastator->tactical. If assault marines get core, everything past that level of training should be core, because they're not going to 'forget' how to obey orders from their captain.
For necrons, its a little different, since canonically destroyers (and flayed ones) are mad/defective minds that DO ignore orders to pursue their bloodletting/destruction of all life goals. And Canopteks are purely mechanical servitors. So that's the kind of criteria they're working with for these two. We'll see how it turns out.
Basically if its a Necron AND sane (and not Triarch), it gets Core. Canoptek doesn't get it, neither does destroyer anything. Nor vehicles, unsurprisingly.
Also the Goonhammer review does mention deathmarks:
Mechanical Augmentation can now target any Core unit, which puts Tomb Blades, Lychguard and Deathmarks on the table along with Warriors and Immortals.
and also when talking about the unit itself.
That’s enough that 10 of these are a real worry for enemy characters, especially as they’re base BS2+ and can be further buffed thanks to being CORE.
Sorry for sourcing at you.
From 'Army Abilities - Keywords':
Core: As heavily previewed, this indicates units that are meant to be the backbone of an army, and have access to the most buffs. Here, that’s Warriors, Immortals, Tomb Blades and Lychguard. It’s a surprisingly short list compared to Marines.
So they failed to list a CORE unit where they were telling you which units are CORE...
CKO wrote: Thanks guys, with Dynastic Traditions and Circumstances of Awakening, what exactly does Royal Vassal do?
Royal Vassal is pretty much exactly like the 'Inheritors of the Primarch' trait in the current SM codex. Its the 'use your own color scheme, but the Chapter Tactics of a known Chapter.' Or Dynasty in this case.
So if you pick Vassal, you _don't_ get a Circumstance of Awakening, and use Mephrit, Novokh, Nepherek, Sautek, Szarken or Nihilaik Dynasty rules instead
So how is that different from using your own colour scheme and say they are mephir/whatever? Ie is the royal vassal good for anything or is it just nerf?
Basically if its a Necron AND sane (and not Triarch), it gets Core. Canoptek doesn't get it, neither does destroyer anything. Nor vehicles, unsurprisingly.
Also the Goonhammer review does mention deathmarks:
Mechanical Augmentation can now target any Core unit, which puts Tomb Blades, Lychguard and Deathmarks on the table along with Warriors and Immortals.
and also when talking about the unit itself.
That’s enough that 10 of these are a real worry for enemy characters, especially as they’re base BS2+ and can be further buffed thanks to being CORE.
Sorry for sourcing at you.
From 'Army Abilities - Keywords':
Core: As heavily previewed, this indicates units that are meant to be the backbone of an army, and have access to the most buffs. Here, that’s Warriors, Immortals, Tomb Blades and Lychguard. It’s a surprisingly short list compared to Marines.
So they failed to list a CORE unit where they were telling you which units are CORE...
OK? But in the unit itself, and in the strats section, they say it is. And in the video you can see the word Core on the actual page of the Codex.
So... they forgot in the first section. They're fans doing a review, not Word of God.
CKO wrote: Thanks guys, with Dynastic Traditions and Circumstances of Awakening, what exactly does Royal Vassal do?
Royal Vassal is pretty much exactly like the 'Inheritors of the Primarch' trait in the current SM codex. Its the 'use your own color scheme, but the Chapter Tactics of a known Chapter.' Or Dynasty in this case.
So if you pick Vassal, you _don't_ get a Circumstance of Awakening, and use Mephrit, Novokh, Nepherek, Sautek, Szarken or Nihilaik Dynasty rules instead
So how is that different from using your own colour scheme and say they are mephir/whatever? Ie is the royal vassal good for anything or is it just nerf?
It's not different. Royal Vassal is GW's term for allowing people to do so officially.
CKO wrote: Thanks guys, with Dynastic Traditions and Circumstances of Awakening, what exactly does Royal Vassal do?
Royal Vassal is pretty much exactly like the 'Inheritors of the Primarch' trait in the current SM codex. Its the 'use your own color scheme, but the Chapter Tactics of a known Chapter.' Or Dynasty in this case.
So if you pick Vassal, you _don't_ get a Circumstance of Awakening, and use Mephrit, Novokh, Nepherek, Sautek, Szarken or Nihilaik Dynasty rules instead
So how is that different from using your own colour scheme and say they are mephir/whatever? Ie is the royal vassal good for anything or is it just nerf?
It's not different. Royal Vassal is GW's term for allowing people to do so officially.
it's just like the inheritors of the primarch trait, largely pointless sure but good to have.
Basically if its a Necron AND sane (and not Triarch), it gets Core. Canoptek doesn't get it, neither does destroyer anything. Nor vehicles, unsurprisingly.
Also the Goonhammer review does mention deathmarks:
Mechanical Augmentation can now target any Core unit, which puts Tomb Blades, Lychguard and Deathmarks on the table along with Warriors and Immortals.
and also when talking about the unit itself.
That’s enough that 10 of these are a real worry for enemy characters, especially as they’re base BS2+ and can be further buffed thanks to being CORE.
Sorry for sourcing at you.
From 'Army Abilities - Keywords':
Core: As heavily previewed, this indicates units that are meant to be the backbone of an army, and have access to the most buffs. Here, that’s Warriors, Immortals, Tomb Blades and Lychguard. It’s a surprisingly short list compared to Marines.
So they failed to list a CORE unit where they were telling you which units are CORE...
OK? But in the unit itself, and in the strats section, they say it is. And in the video you can see the word Core on the actual page of the Codex. So... they forgot in the first section. They're fans doing a review, not Word of God.
Yet you're using a different part of the same article as 'Word of God'. Either section had an equal chance of being wrong so why even bring up the second section? Basically your post should have been something like this...
... because the rules in the codex are what matter. When it comes to Goonhammer's article we might as well have flipped a coin to decide which was correct in the absence of being able to see the actual rules.
Basically if its a Necron AND sane (and not Triarch), it gets Core. Canoptek doesn't get it, neither does destroyer anything. Nor vehicles, unsurprisingly.
Also the Goonhammer review does mention deathmarks:
Mechanical Augmentation can now target any Core unit, which puts Tomb Blades, Lychguard and Deathmarks on the table along with Warriors and Immortals.
and also when talking about the unit itself.
That’s enough that 10 of these are a real worry for enemy characters, especially as they’re base BS2+ and can be further buffed thanks to being CORE.
Sorry for sourcing at you.
From 'Army Abilities - Keywords':
Core: As heavily previewed, this indicates units that are meant to be the backbone of an army, and have access to the most buffs. Here, that’s Warriors, Immortals, Tomb Blades and Lychguard. It’s a surprisingly short list compared to Marines.
So they failed to list a CORE unit where they were telling you which units are CORE...
OK? But in the unit itself, and in the strats section, they say it is. And in the video you can see the word Core on the actual page of the Codex.
So... they forgot in the first section. They're fans doing a review, not Word of God.
Yet you're using a different part of the same article as 'Word of God'. Either section had an equal chance of being wrong so why even bring up the second section? Basically your post should have been something like this...
... because the rules in the codex are what matter. When it comes to Goonhammer's article we might as well have flipped a coin to decide which was correct in the absence of being able to see the actual rules.
No, I was providing evidence, from multiple sources, not claiming something solely based on a _lack_ of mention in one place.
They're Core. Arguing about it is pointless
The -1 to toughness while within 1" is also a pretty good contender.
Wraiths can melt MEQ with their 4 attacks at S6 -2AP 2D:
+1 to hit aura for Canoptek units
-1 to toughness (T4 to T3)
Hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s sounds pretty juicy.
-1 to toughness is great for Flayed Ones assuming they still get Shred on their claws.
The article states they lost rerolling wounds, but I haven't seen a datasheet yet. Wouldn't be surprised though. And GW want me to believe that my Novokh Flayed Ones that lost rerolling hits and wounds are now better lol
The -1 to toughness while within 1" is also a pretty good contender.
Wraiths can melt MEQ with their 4 attacks at S6 -2AP 2D:
+1 to hit aura for Canoptek units
-1 to toughness (T4 to T3)
Hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s sounds pretty juicy.
-1 to toughness is great for Flayed Ones assuming they still get Shred on their claws.
The article states they lost rerolling wounds, but I haven't seen a datasheet yet. Wouldn't be surprised though. And GW want me to believe that my Novokh Flayed Ones that lost rerolling hits and wounds are now better lol
Flayed ones did lose shred. They have the Flesh Hunger for exploding 6's on non-vehicle units, the native -1 ap on their claws, 3 A base and enemies subtract 2 from their LD while within 3' of them. 13 PPM and they can deepstirke.
The -1 to toughness while within 1" is also a pretty good contender.
Wraiths can melt MEQ with their 4 attacks at S6 -2AP 2D:
+1 to hit aura for Canoptek units
-1 to toughness (T4 to T3)
Hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s sounds pretty juicy.
-1 to toughness is great for Flayed Ones assuming they still get Shred on their claws.
The article states they lost rerolling wounds, but I haven't seen a datasheet yet. Wouldn't be surprised though. And GW want me to believe that my Novokh Flayed Ones that lost rerolling hits and wounds are now better lol
Flayed ones did lose shred. They have the Flesh Hunger for exploding 6's on non-vehicle units, the native -1 ap on their claws, 3 A base and enemies subtract 2 from their LD while within 3' of them. 13 PPM and they can deepstirke.
Shred is VASTLY superior to AP-1 and exploding 6s.
The -1 to toughness while within 1" is also a pretty good contender.
Wraiths can melt MEQ with their 4 attacks at S6 -2AP 2D:
+1 to hit aura for Canoptek units
-1 to toughness (T4 to T3)
Hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s sounds pretty juicy.
-1 to toughness is great for Flayed Ones assuming they still get Shred on their claws.
The article states they lost rerolling wounds, but I haven't seen a datasheet yet. Wouldn't be surprised though. And GW want me to believe that my Novokh Flayed Ones that lost rerolling hits and wounds are now better lol
Flayed ones did lose shred. They have the Flesh Hunger for exploding 6's on non-vehicle units, the native -1 ap on their claws, 3 A base and enemies subtract 2 from their LD while within 3' of them. 13 PPM and they can deepstirke.
Shred is VASTLY superior to AP-1 and exploding 6s.
Just did the math on this 10 flayed ones vs T4, you cause an average of 5 unsaved wounds vs 3+, 6 with the new rules.
Against T5 you cause an average of 3 unsaved wounds against 3+ with the old rules vs 2 with the current rules.
So it's not vastly superior at all. It's very slightly better against T5+, while the new rule being better on T4 and below. That's not even starting to get into the bonus' you can get between the stratagems and the Novokh Dynasty.
Every Necron player I know is. They seemed to have finally made it worth while (Well, maybe once Eradicators are gone...) But now you are either spending 3 CP and not giving it dynasty bonus' or you are bringing 3 of them.
Oh yes.
I'm pretty certain its my personal biggest disappointment in the entire book.
I was honestly hoping the point cost would come down for the flux arc loadout, but instead it went UP 90 points AND costs CP on top.
The only solace here is the new marine vehicles are also overpriced.
GW seems to vastly overrate vehicles this edition, but I have absolutely no idea why. I can't even guess.
I think it's worth mentioning that being non-core doesn't mean you don't get buffs in the Necron army, Canoptek and Destroyer Cult are both keywords that pop up pretty often. It's just different HQ's to take.
Twilight Pathways wrote: If a Nightscythe is destroyed can the occupants now disembark without having to use a friggin strat? Or have they just kept it the same
I believe Night Scythes are now just regular Transports with a capacity of 20 now. So wonky Tomb World Deployment and strat to save your units are thankfully a thing of the past.
Anyone with better info know what the exact wording is on the Doomstalker's overwatch ability? They get to fire overwatch for free on anything charging a friendly within 6"... but do they still need 6's to hit?
Automatically Appended Next Post: One wonders if the Night Shroud bomber and the other Forgeworld kits will get better rules.
Just did the math on this 10 flayed ones vs T4, you cause an average of 5 unsaved wounds vs 3+, 6 with the new rules.
Against T5 you cause an average of 3 unsaved wounds against 3+ with the old rules vs 2 with the current rules.
So it's not vastly superior at all. It's very slightly better against T5+, while the new rule being better on T4 and below. That's not even starting to get into the bonus' you can get between the stratagems and the Novokh Dynasty.
Long story short, they were bad before and are still bad now. It's a shame. I think if they had 4 attacks base each they would be viable
Just did the math on this 10 flayed ones vs T4, you cause an average of 5 unsaved wounds vs 3+, 6 with the new rules.
Against T5 you cause an average of 3 unsaved wounds against 3+ with the old rules vs 2 with the current rules.
So it's not vastly superior at all. It's very slightly better against T5+, while the new rule being better on T4 and below. That's not even starting to get into the bonus' you can get between the stratagems and the Novokh Dynasty.
Long story short, they were bad before and are still bad now. It's a shame. I think if they had 4 attacks base each they would be viable
Just did the math on this 10 flayed ones vs T4, you cause an average of 5 unsaved wounds vs 3+, 6 with the new rules.
Against T5 you cause an average of 3 unsaved wounds against 3+ with the old rules vs 2 with the current rules.
So it's not vastly superior at all. It's very slightly better against T5+, while the new rule being better on T4 and below. That's not even starting to get into the bonus' you can get between the stratagems and the Novokh Dynasty.
Long story short, they were bad before and are still bad now. It's a shame. I think if they had 4 attacks base each they would be viable
.. whats their points cost?
13, so one down from prior. Sasori also gave the result in "unsaved wounds". The new models have AP1, which tilts it further into their advantage.
Necron melee is better, there might be a marginal difference in damage output when you compare old rules and new rules for Flayed Ones but they are a 1 wound model with the new RP rule. That means defensively they are far superior.
Another question; as Destroyers are now "Lokhust Destroyers" are the old Heavy Destroyers essentially re-done into the new "Lokhust Heavy" variant? Or are the old 'heavy destroyers' now just a weapon swap for 'lokhust destroyers'
-Ňecrontyr- wrote: Another question; as Destroyers are now "Lokhust Destroyers" are the old Heavy Destroyers essentially re-done into the new "Lokhust Heavy" variant? Or are the old 'heavy destroyers' now just a weapon swap for 'lokhust destroyers'
Little confused.
We still have the old destroyers I think the name may have changed.
-Ňecrontyr- wrote: Another question; as Destroyers are now "Lokhust Destroyers" are the old Heavy Destroyers essentially re-done into the new "Lokhust Heavy" variant? Or are the old 'heavy destroyers' now just a weapon swap for 'lokhust destroyers'
Little confused.
I'd say so. You take your old heavy destroyers as Lokhust heavy destroyers, your old destroyers as Lokhust destroyers and your destroyer lord as lokhust destroyer lord.Even the options stayed similar as you can still mix one heavy destroyer into a group of normal destroyers.
