Aza'Gorod wrote: The guess reaper range is weird, but is is a very powerful weapon on a troup choice, I think we should wait for changes to terrain and our transports to see how it plays out.
I cam see myself having 1 squad of them and beaming them in to quickly eradicate a tough target. Or being there to hold the line against CC armies
Maybe they have been designed to take objectives and clear troops out of terrain or to keep a few in your blob for overwatch
It's interesting that you say that, I've just realized something. Notice how whenever they show the warriors, they show both options in the squad?
That would make warriors the first infantry unit Necrons have that can replace weapons on a model by model basis, do you think we might see other units getting this option, or will warriors likely be 1 or the other?
Aza'Gorod wrote: The guess reaper range is weird, but is is a very powerful weapon on a troup choice, I think we should wait for changes to terrain and our transports to see how it plays out.
I cam see myself having 1 squad of them and beaming them in to quickly eradicate a tough target. Or being there to hold the line against CC armies
Maybe they have been designed to take objectives and clear troops out of terrain or to keep a few in your blob for overwatch
It's interesting that you say that, I've just realized something. Notice how whenever they show the warriors, they show both options in the squad?
That would make warriors the first infantry unit Necrons have that can replace weapons on a model by model basis, do you think we might see other units getting this option, or will warriors likely be 1 or the other?
I feel that they're just showing how the models can be built, not necessarily that it will be an option in 9th edition.
-10" of range for an extra ap and str, that's a tough sell. They would be out of rapid fire range even if they deep struck, so they would be relying on tomb world deployment to get close. If they had the ability to shoot them in CC, maybe, but having to be that close and not being great at CC, probably a non-starter. It feels like a real missed opportunity, if they had been assault 2 instead of rapid fire, I think that would have been an interesting decision. Still kit looks great and they aren't making you use the reapers, so yeah for options.
Also the very minor points increase warriors got is another strong indication that RP isn't changing, at least not changing into something GW thinks is more powerful than the current system. If it is changing, it would have to be something with trade offs, like you always get a chance to reanimate, but if you fail it the model is removed. In which case the tall boy would be useful, he could give the +1 to a unit with lots of reanimation rolls, and since it's at the beginning of your command phase you know what units need it the most.
With that said my bet is still on RP being unchanged, it's fluffy, and doing incremental changes makes more sense when your introducing a bunch of new factors.
We know that 9th edition is tiered toward CC and mid range weapons, and indeed reveal after reveal that is becoming to be apparent, so these could be more useful than we think.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Wouldn't the changes to terrain help RP? If they can't delete us off the board because cover and hiding is better, then RP might actually have time to work.
Gauss Reaper looks lackluster. That 14" range is ridiculous. I was expecting 18".
Except so far terrain rules have made it EASIER than what we have had before. Sure if you play by the book this is improvement but at least here the 1st floor blocks LOS has been use since day 1 of 8th ed...And the 9th ed makes it easier to get LOS to...
Wonder what's the good target for new gun or what buffs you need to make it better assuming >7"<=14" range(the most likely due to veil). No buffs marines the gauss flayer wins at rapid fire range.
And lol at the FB notifications. I never got message W40k community replied to my comment so I actually saw it here
Spoletta wrote: We know that 9th edition is tiered toward CC and mid range weapons, and indeed reveal after reveal that is becoming to be apparent, so these could be more useful than we think.
One thing to keep in mind. What Games workshop wants the game to be, and what it actually will be are very, very different things. I don't think that the game has ever developed the way that Games workshop wanted or expected it to be.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Wouldn't the changes to terrain help RP? If they can't delete us off the board because cover and hiding is better, then RP might actually have time to work.
Gauss Reaper looks lackluster. That 14" range is ridiculous. I was expecting 18".
Except so far terrain rules have made it EASIER than what we have had before. Sure if you play by the book this is improvement but at least here the 1st floor blocks LOS has been use since day 1 of 8th ed...And the 9th ed makes it easier to get LOS to...
Wonder what's the good target for new gun or what buffs you need to make it better assuming >7"<=14" range(the most likely due to veil). No buffs marines the gauss flayer wins at rapid fire range.
And lol at the FB notifications. I never got message W40k community replied to my comment so I actually saw it here
Speaking of FB, I found this one as well in a new scarab related post
I remember reading somewhere that the new Skorpekh Destroyers had a rule that let them roll RP after they destroyed a unit in CC and the end of the fight phase. I can't remember which article, so if anyone can remember please let me know, but it does give some hope that some of the issues are being addressed. As to why Games workshop want to hide these I haven't a clue.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Wouldn't the changes to terrain help RP? If they can't delete us off the board because cover and hiding is better, then RP might actually have time to work.
Gauss Reaper looks lackluster. That 14" range is ridiculous. I was expecting 18".
Except so far terrain rules have made it EASIER than what we have had before. Sure if you play by the book this is improvement but at least here the 1st floor blocks LOS has been use since day 1 of 8th ed...And the 9th ed makes it easier to get LOS to...
Wonder what's the good target for new gun or what buffs you need to make it better assuming >7"<=14" range(the most likely due to veil). No buffs marines the gauss flayer wins at rapid fire range.
And lol at the FB notifications. I never got message W40k community replied to my comment so I actually saw it here
Speaking of FB, I found this one as well in a new scarab related post
Darsath wrote: I remember reading somewhere that the new Skorpekh Destroyers had a rule that let them roll RP after they destroyed a unit in CC and the end of the fight phase. I can't remember which article, so if anyone can remember please let me know, but it does give some hope that some of the issues are being addressed. As to why Games workshop want to hide these I haven't a clue.
It was some 4chan rumors that have been thoroughly debunked at this point.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Wouldn't the changes to terrain help RP? If they can't delete us off the board because cover and hiding is better, then RP might actually have time to work.
Gauss Reaper looks lackluster. That 14" range is ridiculous. I was expecting 18".
Except so far terrain rules have made it EASIER than what we have had before. Sure if you play by the book this is improvement but at least here the 1st floor blocks LOS has been use since day 1 of 8th ed...And the 9th ed makes it easier to get LOS to...
Wonder what's the good target for new gun or what buffs you need to make it better assuming >7"<=14" range(the most likely due to veil). No buffs marines the gauss flayer wins at rapid fire range.
And lol at the FB notifications. I never got message W40k community replied to my comment so I actually saw it here
Speaking of FB, I found this one as well in a new scarab related post
what did Dave say?
Ha. I take this one back. I didn't notice the name difference. Dave's comment was minimized (only showed original message and GW response). Dave simply posed a pic of the warrior spruce with the scarabs.
It's very concerning that they did not reveal a new reanimation protocol rule in the faction focus. RP is a major problem in 8th. Not even mentioning that it's getting updated is a problem.
Pretty much, you don't get to use it. A lot of Necron infantry units die really easily, and the lethality of the game makes RP a rare rule to actually see get use.
Grimgold wrote: -10" of range for an extra ap and str, that's a tough sell. They would be out of rapid fire range even if they deep struck, so they would be relying on tomb world deployment to get close. If they had the ability to shoot them in CC, maybe, but having to be that close and not being great at CC, probably a non-starter. It feels like a real missed opportunity, if they had been assault 2 instead of rapid fire, I think that would have been an interesting decision. Still kit looks great and they aren't making you use the reapers, so yeah for options.
Also the very minor points increase warriors got is another strong indication that RP isn't changing, at least not changing into something GW thinks is more powerful than the current system. If it is changing, it would have to be something with trade offs, like you always get a chance to reanimate, but if you fail it the model is removed. In which case the tall boy would be useful, he could give the +1 to a unit with lots of reanimation rolls, and since it's at the beginning of your command phase you know what units need it the most.
With that said my bet is still on RP being unchanged, it's fluffy, and doing incremental changes makes more sense when your introducing a bunch of new factors.
Seems like if they want these mid range weapons to get used, they need to bring back being able to disembark and shoot after a transport moves.
RP is baked into the points of models. If a unit is wiped out there is no chance of doing RP. Necrons pay for a rule which can easily be denied for them. It gets worse with more points, the opponent has more firepower to kill a unit. The reverse is true for less points.
Lance845 wrote: It's very concerning that they did not reveal a new reanimation protocol rule in the faction focus. RP is a major problem in 8th. Not even mentioning that it's getting updated is a problem.
This faction focus was neither a preview of an upcoming codex or a PA article.
They literally just made a review of the current faction in view of the new models released.
I wouldn't expect news in this series of faction focuses that is coming. Except the usual "This faction is fantastic and will become more fantastic in 9th! Look, this weapon is now blast!"
Effectively it doesn't scale with the size of the game.
Bellow 1000 points necrons are near unstoppable because the enemy doesn't have enough fire power to wipe an entire unit in a single turn and so RP keeps undoing any damage they have done. By the time you hit 2k points the enemy can and will focus fire a single unit until the whole thing is dead. Once the unit is wiped off the board it doesn't get a chance to do it's RP. But as others said, they still pay for it in points.
Lance845 wrote: It's very concerning that they did not reveal a new reanimation protocol rule in the faction focus. RP is a major problem in 8th. Not even mentioning that it's getting updated is a problem.
They have to save something for the previews when the codex drops.
Tamwulf wrote: Am I the only one that is going to miss the green plastic rods? :(
They were very cool and one of the things that got me into the range when I first started, but I think they've shown their age at this point and just don't fit in quite like they used to, IMO.
I'm not ready to go doom and gloom, but my hopefulness for necrons getting the help they need is fading. That gauss reaper was a pretty big disappointment.
The reanimator was a little bit of a let down too. I just don't think it will be very survivable or practical.
I'm really hoping they step it up.
The playtester didn't really give any useful info at all.
Yeah I wouldn't worry about these faction rules, they're clearly just old codex stuff being sold as good. Mephrit (and all dynasties will get two traits when the new rules rock up).
We may even get a make your own dynasty in pariah. A + 3 range trait might make Gauss Reapers more interesting. As it stands, yeah they're a little too short on range for my liking. I'd have preferred Assault 2 with 12" range, then at least they'd be OK for Deceiver shenanigans.
Still, we'll see. Maybe Night Scythes and Ghost Arks will be the order of business in 9th.
IanVanCheese wrote: Yeah I wouldn't worry about these faction rules, they're clearly just old codex stuff being sold as good. Mephrit (and all dynasties will get two traits when the new rules rock up).
We may even get a make your own dynasty in pariah. A + 3 range trait might make Gauss Reapers more interesting. As it stands, yeah they're a little too short on range for my liking. I'd have preferred Assault 2 with 12" range, then at least they'd be OK for Deceiver shenanigans.
Still, we'll see. Maybe Night Scythes and Ghost Arks will be the order of business in 9th.
Yeah, looks like Mephrit is *still* worse than a doctrine lmao.
IanVanCheese wrote: Yeah I wouldn't worry about these faction rules, they're clearly just old codex stuff being sold as good. Mephrit (and all dynasties will get two traits when the new rules rock up).
We may even get a make your own dynasty in pariah. A + 3 range trait might make Gauss Reapers more interesting. As it stands, yeah they're a little too short on range for my liking. I'd have preferred Assault 2 with 12" range, then at least they'd be OK for Deceiver shenanigans.
Still, we'll see. Maybe Night Scythes and Ghost Arks will be the order of business in 9th.
Yeah, looks like Mephrit is *still* worse than a doctrine lmao.
Different, I'd have a hard time saying which is better. Mephrit works in all turns and for all weapon types, with the disadvantage of having to be close, doctrines depend on turn and weapon type. The fact that Marines have an extra layer of rules that have no equivalent for necrons is the annoying part.
Still it's not all doom and gloom, new models are always welcome, and with the amount of new models coming at least some of them have to be good right? Warriors also got the smallest points increase we've seen so far, if that holds true for the rest of the codex we'll be in a pretty good place. The article was not great, and covered the literal least exciting news they could have given us, and padded the rest of the article with an attempt at inside humor, and a bunch of rules that didn't change. Not great, but I'll take the good with the bad.
In theory it sounds cool. You come back alive on 5+! Yey! And the crypteks make it to 4+! And there's stratagems to give rerolls and various ways to do 2 or even 3 time for unit! Yey! Awesome!
Except the issue is unit needs to have survivors to roll it...If every model is dead no rolling. Unit is gone. And overall necrons are not that tough especially for point costs. Warriors we are looking at 20 wounds at T4 4+ save. Not hard to remove. And 9th ed makes it easier due to blast.
Immortals? 10 wounds with 3+ save. I would take warriors instead for durability.
Destroyers? 6 models, 3 wound each. T5 at least. But still not THAT super tough.
Only unit I regularly roll it is lychguard due to 4++(that can be buffed to 3++ in shooting phase) and even that's not that common. Too much high ROF -0/-1 dam2 or d3 guns out there to rely on that.
And it's not like how RP works is super secret so opponents know to focus stuff dead.
It also has issue in that it scales very badly. 500-1000 pts you can actually roll it sometimes and there RP can be frustrating to opponent. In 2k it's much less common. 3k? Just forget it. Rules that are sooooooooooo badly scalable are extra bad.
Problem though is it's not easy to fix. If units roll even after all dead then units are essentially undying especially if you go 2nd(good luck failing 10 5+ roll in a row...) so either opponents would not get any kill vps(you come back alive) or you would bleed them all the time. Stratagem would at least add cost but then back to non-scalability.
Really not sure what the point of that faction focus article was. Apart from revealing the Death Ray is Blast now and showing off the underwhelming statline for the new gun it was literally just showing stuff that's currently true but may well change in the upcoming Codex (which they haven't officially announced and therefore can't talk about yet).
Take it for what its worth, but maybe better transportation for our new short range warriors.
Again, take it for what its worth.
This is kind of an interesting one since they certainly don't answer all questions and comments.
So if there are no plans to remove existing units then that makes me question what exactly they plan to do with the correct destroyer lord. Make it into a Lokhust lord, maybe a shooter lord like in the original sketch so it has 1 big and some kind of shoulder rocket pods?
Bosskelot wrote: Bear in mind the warhammer facebook page is run by interns from a completely different department who know as much about what's coming as you or me.
OK lol didn't know that. I guess time will tell then
torblind wrote: I created a kitbash of the new necron warrior weapon while waiting (well mainly the gun):
weapon made with an Immortal's sawed-off gauss blaster. Quiz: Can you guess which part from another muldi-model necron kit the weapon's claw is made from?
Spoiler:
Nice model and I'm leaning towards Canoptek spider?
It's taken from a pair of ribs from the cage that sits on the back of praetorians. (left over when building Lychguards)
Bosskelot wrote: Bear in mind the warhammer facebook page is run by interns from a completely different department who know as much about what's coming as you or me.
It's funny when I read comments like this, because 'Social Media Staff' that have to handle disgruntled members of this 'community' are probably not interns.
Bosskelot wrote: Bear in mind the warhammer facebook page is run by interns from a completely different department who know as much about what's coming as you or me.
It's funny when I read comments like this, because 'Social Media Staff' that have to handle disgruntled members of this 'community' are probably not interns.
I'm not sure about GW, but my companies Social Media is not handled by interns, or even low level employees. It's way to easy to someone to make a small mistake have such a huge cascading effect that is all public.
Yeah, having interns handle your social media is a recipe for disaster. I think it's just more likely that the social media staff have no real insight into the games development side of things. GW is run in a very siloed way and I think some people would be surprised at the amount of division between the various departments. It's really not a case of the whole company sitting in a big development studio all bouncing ideas for new rules off one another.
Bosskelot wrote: Bear in mind the warhammer facebook page is run by interns from a completely different department who know as much about what's coming as you or me.
Gonna need a citation for that, given they advertised such a role.
Bosskelot wrote: Bear in mind the warhammer facebook page is run by interns from a completely different department who know as much about what's coming as you or me.
OK lol didn't know that. I guess time will tell then
Even if they do know more, they're not permitted to 'spill the beans' until GW has made an official announcement.
-Sounds like support units are getting a bit of an overhaul. Tomb Spyders were called out by name in stream. We should expect these to provide better support
-Called out the Wargear and Crypteks supporting RP -Said RP isn't the only Army-wide special rule. Said one is much more "proactive" Context implied it's more offensive.
-Seems the army will be a lot more customiziable, with the Overlord having some choices, followed by Dyanstys. Some kind of "Protocols"
-Sounds like support units are getting a bit of an overhaul. Tomb Spyders were called out by name in stream. We should expect these to provide better support
-Called out the Wargear and Crypteks supporting RP -Said RP isn't the only Army-wide special rule. Said one is much more "proactive" Context implied it's more offensive.
-Seems the army will be a lot more customiziable, with the Overlord having some choices, followed by Dyanstys. Some kind of "Protocols"
You, good sir, have made my day with this information. I shall celebrate by painting 20 Praetorians.
Hopefully Spyders move to a Canoptek support role, I feel that would make a little more sense
I'm cautiously optimistic, because it probably means you always get a chance to reanimate, but as a balance you probably only get one chance. That other rule they talked about and the comment about the new warrior weapon sure sounds like a Gauss rule, like losing the -1 ap and gaining a special rule.
Darsath wrote: I'm not optimistic yet. Kinda lost that after yesterday. If they want to show us that things are different, then they should just show it.
They won't preview rules from a book that might be 3 months off yet. Its not so far out nobody can wait though.
Darsath wrote: I'm not optimistic yet. Kinda lost that after yesterday. If they want to show us that things are different, then they should just show it.
Yesterday wasn't a rules preview for anything that is going to be in our new codex or pariah. It was a focus on our current codex + 9th edition rules. You shouldn't be discouraged by that, as nothing was going to change for that article, as far as fundamental core rules go.
Supposedly this week we are taking a look at Dynasties, and they seemed to imply they were going to be new ones.
Darsath wrote: I'm not optimistic yet. Kinda lost that after yesterday. If they want to show us that things are different, then they should just show it.
Yesterday wasn't a rules preview for anything that is going to be in our new codex or pariah. It was a focus on our current codex + 9th edition rules. You shouldn't be discouraged by that, as nothing was going to change for that article, as far as fundamental core rules go.
Supposedly this week we are taking a look at Dynasties, and they seemed to imply they were going to be new ones.
I'm only really giving it till the end of the week tbh. If Games workshop are just gonna stretch this out, then I'm not interested. If it's coming out in 3 months, then they should talk about the stuff that's coming out this month. They're just spreading it too thin, and I'm on my wit's end with it as is. I don't have the time or energy to put up with it.
Here is an updated and more through transcript that somebody took of today's stream
stream highlights:
-Redesigning necron models provided insight into how GW wants necrons to play, both in strengths and weaknesses
-GW want to play up the horror aesthetic with the new necrons
-Reanimation Protocols have been given a big overhaul
-Right now there are a lot of ways to mitigate RP. GW wants to make it so bringing back your units is constant and consistent
-Canoptek Reanimator uses it's nano-scarab beam to break down and reconstruct necron units. For enemies, it's just the break down part.
-New necron codex has a lot of emphasis on being broken down and getting back up again.
-"A relentless, grinding playstyle" with a mid-field shooting emphasis
-Command phase will prompt decisions for in what way necron units should reanimate. The player should be responsible more making the decisions, they are the overlord
-"Dynastic noble" aesthetic will still exist with the triarch units
-While necrons do have fast units, they want necrons to be slow and methodical, with lots of firepower
-"100% more guns"
-Necrons will get other army-wide rules besides Reanimation Protocols
-Necrons main weakness is their speed. They also want necrons to use more infantry than vehicles
Darsath wrote: I'm not optimistic yet. Kinda lost that after yesterday. If they want to show us that things are different, then they should just show it.
Yesterday wasn't a rules preview for anything that is going to be in our new codex or pariah. It was a focus on our current codex + 9th edition rules. You shouldn't be discouraged by that, as nothing was going to change for that article, as far as fundamental core rules go.
Supposedly this week we are taking a look at Dynasties, and they seemed to imply they were going to be new ones.
I'm only really giving it till the end of the week tbh. If Games workshop are just gonna stretch this out, then I'm not interested. If it's coming out in 3 months, then they should talk about the stuff that's coming out this month. They're just spreading it too thin, and I'm on my wit's end with it as is. I don't have the time or energy to put up with it.
I'm pretty sure its coming out end of July and that's still over 4 weeks away. Plenty of time to reveal new things.
At end of the day if they reveal new rules it not like we can use them anyway, in glad to get new rules reveals but in all honesty I wouldn't care if we don't find out till the new edition as at least then I can use them
Darsath wrote: I'm only really giving it till the end of the week tbh. If Games workshop are just gonna stretch this out, then I'm not interested. If it's coming out in 3 months, then they should talk about the stuff that's coming out this month. They're just spreading it too thin, and I'm on my wit's end with it as is. I don't have the time or energy to put up with it.
9th edition is going to be released in July, with Codex Necrons sometime after that (the first 8th edition codex came out a month after the game dropped). Expecting all of the information by the end of the week is an unrealistic expectation.
As for talking about what's coming out this month, what do you think they've been doing? They've already discussed all of the Psychic Awakening releases, the Lumineth and Sons of Behemat releases, etc.
Sasori wrote: Here is an updated and more through transcript that somebody took of today's stream
stream highlights:
-Redesigning necron models provided insight into how GW wants necrons to play, both in strengths and weaknesses
-GW want to play up the horror aesthetic with the new necrons
-Reanimation Protocols have been given a big overhaul
-Right now there are a lot of ways to mitigate RP. GW wants to make it so bringing back your units is constant and consistent
-Canoptek Reanimator uses it's nano-scarab beam to break down and reconstruct necron units. For enemies, it's just the break down part.
-New necron codex has a lot of emphasis on being broken down and getting back up again.
-"A relentless, grinding playstyle" with a mid-field shooting emphasis
-Command phase will prompt decisions for in what way necron units should reanimate. The player should be responsible more making the decisions, they are the overlord
-"Dynastic noble" aesthetic will still exist with the triarch units
-While necrons do have fast units, they want necrons to be slow and methodical, with lots of firepower
-"100% more guns"
-Necrons will get other army-wide rules besides Reanimation Protocols
-Necrons main weakness is their speed. They also want necrons to use more infantry than vehicles
Relentless grinding play style with a focus on infantry sure sounds like 7th ed necrons, when we were impossible to kill but hit like wet noodles.
I'm curious how they're going to make speed a weakness and shift emphasis onto infantry, for a faction that built most of its fire support into vehicles and has units like Jetbikes, Skimmer & Flyer transports, swarms & wraiths, etc that can get speed pretty much wherever it wants it. My gut says that they're probably not going to achieve this but will attempt to do so by adding gobs of special rules and ability interactions to infantry units
Vaktathi wrote: I'm curious how they're going to make speed a weakness and shift emphasis onto infantry, for a faction that built most of its fire support into vehicles and has units like Jetbikes, Skimmer & Flyer transports, swarms & wraiths, etc that can get speed pretty much wherever it wants it. My gut says that they're probably not going to achieve this but will attempt to do so by adding gobs of special rules and ability interactions to infantry units
Yea, I've been wondering the same thing as I glace back at my necron fly/hover/phase through objects shelf...
Probably nerf the movement profiles of everything that was introduced in 5th ed except for flyers. I can see Annihilation barges and arks getting dropped down to Movement 8".
I'm fine with this. Necrons were supposed to get around primarily through teleportation. 5th ed forgot about that and just made them tougher Eldar with their fast and sort of flimsy vehicles that rely on gimmicks to survive...you know, like Wave Serpents.
It's super easy to make us an infantry focused army, give Gauss a mortal wound rule. For instance it could mirror the sniper rifle rule, "When a natural 6 to hit is rolled, this attack inflicts a mortal wound in addition to causing a hit". Suddenly we want as much gauss as we can get, which means warriors and immortals. They'll have to jack up the cost of tomb blades to keep people from spamming them, but GW has always been willing to crack a few eggs to make an omelet.
That could easily double the output of a squad of immortals against tough opponents, and quite a bit more for warriors.
Grimgold wrote: It's super easy to make us an infantry focused army, give Gauss a mortal wound rule. For instance it could mirror the sniper rifle rule, "When a natural 6 to hit is rolled, this attack inflicts a mortal wound in addition to causing a hit". Suddenly we want as much gauss as we can get, which means warriors and immortals. They'll have to jack up the cost of tomb blades to keep people from spamming them, but GW has always been willing to crack a few eggs to make an omelet.
That could easily double the output of a squad of immortals against tough opponents, and quite a bit more for warriors.
If we make a 6 a mortal wound at most it'll cause 2 extra wounds with warriors and 1 with immortals a turn. It won't make a massive difference to Gauss in the grand scheme of things. Fair enough you could have a lucky turn but statistically speaking with 20 warriors in rapid fire you'll get 26 hits of which 13 will wound and 2 should be a 6 so that's not a massive difference maybe 1 more dead primaries.
In previous editions before everything got so many wounds this would be a big change but nowadays it wouldn't make a humongous difference.
It would mean they could slowly pick off a T 8 model but 2 wounds a turn isn't exactly gonna turn the tide
Sasori wrote: Here is an updated and more through transcript that somebody took of today's stream
stream highlights:
-Redesigning necron models provided insight into how GW wants necrons to play, both in strengths and weaknesses
-GW want to play up the horror aesthetic with the new necrons
-Reanimation Protocols have been given a big overhaul
-Right now there are a lot of ways to mitigate RP. GW wants to make it so bringing back your units is constant and consistent
-Canoptek Reanimator uses it's nano-scarab beam to break down and reconstruct necron units. For enemies, it's just the break down part.
-New necron codex has a lot of emphasis on being broken down and getting back up again.
-"A relentless, grinding playstyle" with a mid-field shooting emphasis
-Command phase will prompt decisions for in what way necron units should reanimate. The player should be responsible more making the decisions, they are the overlord
-"Dynastic noble" aesthetic will still exist with the triarch units
-While necrons do have fast units, they want necrons to be slow and methodical, with lots of firepower
-"100% more guns"
-Necrons will get other army-wide rules besides Reanimation Protocols
-Necrons main weakness is their speed. They also want necrons to use more infantry than vehicles
This is the first thing I've heard for 9th that's actually got me interested (and maybe even the tiniest bit enthused), rather than making me express a deep sigh.
Grimgold wrote: It's super easy to make us an infantry focused army, give Gauss a mortal wound rule. For instance it could mirror the sniper rifle rule, "When a natural 6 to hit is rolled, this attack inflicts a mortal wound in addition to causing a hit". Suddenly we want as much gauss as we can get, which means warriors and immortals. They'll have to jack up the cost of tomb blades to keep people from spamming them, but GW has always been willing to crack a few eggs to make an omelet.
That could easily double the output of a squad of immortals against tough opponents, and quite a bit more for warriors.
If we make a 6 a mortal wound at most it'll cause 2 extra wounds with warriors and 1 with immortals a turn. It won't make a massive difference to Gauss in the grand scheme of things. Fair enough you could have a lucky turn but statistically speaking with 20 warriors in rapid fire you'll get 26 hits of which 13 will wound and 2 should be a 6 so that's not a massive difference maybe 1 more dead primaries.
In previous editions before everything got so many wounds this would be a big change but nowadays it wouldn't make a humongous difference.
It would mean they could slowly pick off a T 8 model but 2 wounds a turn isn't exactly gonna turn the tide
Rapid fire for warriors would be 6-ish mortals in addition to the damage they are doing now, and 3ish for immortals. So take warriors shooting at primaris marines, 2/3 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 40 = 6.6, and 6 mortal wounds, so when I say double I really mean double. Immortal shooting marines 2/3 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 20 = 5.9 + another 3, so 50% increase, against units they are already relatively good at killing, and against heavy units and units with invuls well more that double. With that rule warrior blobs will out damage DDAs against Knights, 3.5 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 1/2 * 3.5 = 2.7, meaning that with just the bonus mortal wounds the warriors will do twice the damage of a DDA.
It's a stupid powerful rule, meta defining even. Math hammer peeps were heavy breathing over the new GK mortal wounds total, and necrons would make that look like amature hour. You could be pumping out almost 20 mortals a round with 720 points worth of troops.
mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
Darsath wrote: I'm not optimistic yet. Kinda lost that after yesterday. If they want to show us that things are different, then they should just show it.
Yesterday wasn't a rules preview for anything that is going to be in our new codex or pariah. It was a focus on our current codex + 9th edition rules. You shouldn't be discouraged by that, as nothing was going to change for that article, as far as fundamental core rules go.
Supposedly this week we are taking a look at Dynasties, and they seemed to imply they were going to be new ones.
I'm only really giving it till the end of the week tbh. If Games workshop are just gonna stretch this out, then I'm not interested. If it's coming out in 3 months, then they should talk about the stuff that's coming out this month. They're just spreading it too thin, and I'm on my wit's end with it as is. I don't have the time or energy to put up with it.
They were only talking about stuff thats out within the next month when they did the faction focus, but too many people couldn't see the writing on the wall and whined about how rubbish the new units were, only previewed existing rules and that RP was crap. So they were kind enough to spell out there will be a new codex in the future with revised rules.
If your addiction can't handle not having the new rule book, new codex an every item of information on the new units available within the next week I think you need to take a break for a bit
Grimgold wrote: It's super easy to make us an infantry focused army, give Gauss a mortal wound rule. For instance it could mirror the sniper rifle rule, "When a natural 6 to hit is rolled, this attack inflicts a mortal wound in addition to causing a hit". Suddenly we want as much gauss as we can get, which means warriors and immortals. They'll have to jack up the cost of tomb blades to keep people from spamming them, but GW has always been willing to crack a few eggs to make an omelet.
That could easily double the output of a squad of immortals against tough opponents, and quite a bit more for warriors.
If we make a 6 a mortal wound at most it'll cause 2 extra wounds with warriors and 1 with immortals a turn. It won't make a massive difference to Gauss in the grand scheme of things. Fair enough you could have a lucky turn but statistically speaking with 20 warriors in rapid fire you'll get 26 hits of which 13 will wound and 2 should be a 6 so that's not a massive difference maybe 1 more dead primaries.
In previous editions before everything got so many wounds this would be a big change but nowadays it wouldn't make a humongous difference.
It would mean they could slowly pick off a T 8 model but 2 wounds a turn isn't exactly gonna turn the tide
Rapid fire for warriors would be 6-ish mortals in addition to the damage they are doing now, and 3ish for immortals. So take warriors shooting at primaris marines, 2/3 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 40 = 6.6, and 6 mortal wounds, so when I say double I really mean double. Immortal shooting marines 2/3 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 20 = 5.9 + another 3, so 50% increase, against units they are already relatively good at killing, and against heavy units and units with invuls well more that double. With that rule warrior blobs will out damage DDAs against Knights, 3.5 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 1/2 * 3.5 = 2.7, meaning that with just the bonus mortal wounds the warriors will do twice the damage of a DDA.
It's a stupid powerful rule, meta defining even. Math hammer peeps were heavy breathing over the new GK mortal wounds total, and necrons would make that look like amature hour. You could be pumping out almost 20 mortals a round with 720 points worth of troops.
Aah I see, I had my numbers wrong fair enough sorry about that
Wait and see. Dunno about pariahs unless they do a last minute reveal we aren't getting any and for flayed ones we haven't heard anything. Going by the fact they say they want our army to effectively be a rolling gun line it makes me wonder how they are gonna fit Flayed ones in
Vaktathi wrote: I'm curious how they're going to make speed a weakness and shift emphasis onto infantry, for a faction that built most of its fire support into vehicles and has units like Jetbikes, Skimmer & Flyer transports, swarms & wraiths, etc that can get speed pretty much wherever it wants it. My gut says that they're probably not going to achieve this but will attempt to do so by adding gobs of special rules and ability interactions to infantry units
I agree. The whole strong midfield shooting approach to Necrons is their main problem in 8th. Yes, getting a whole bunch of Gauss Blasters in 12" is great, as is walking a blob of 20 Warriors into rapid fire range and opening up with MWBD and a Lord nearby. But the core rules of 8th and the general design philosophy of the edition don't lend themselves to mid-range shooting. Everything else is too lethal at too long a range so Necrons just can't get their infantry into range to be effective. That's why most successful Necron armies in 8th contained very few actual Necron models and barely any infantry. If they want this playstyle to work in 9th Necrons need one of two things:
1. More resilience. We need to get into that effective range and doing so means we need to stay alive through walls of bolter fire.
2. Better effectiveness when we do get there. If Necrons still struggle to survive in large numbers then we need to be utterly lethal once we're at optimal range. As 8th went on getting a bunch of S4 AP-1 shots just wasn't that impressive.
Or they copy 3rd ed and give necrons some actual teleportation abilities back.
So unlimited VoD usage, Monoliths actually doing their jobs, remove that stupid dynasty lock on the teleport stratagem, Tomb World Deployment and Invasion Beams actually useful, etc.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Or they copy 3rd ed and give necrons some actual teleportation abilities back.
So unlimited VoD usage, Monoliths actually doing their jobs, remove that stupid dynasty lock on the teleport stratagem, Tomb World Deployment and Invasion Beams actually useful, etc.
That'd be nice. One thing I don't like about Necrons now is how few of their rules really evoke the idea of a ridiculously technologically advanced civilisation. I think QS is about the only rule that really represents it particularly well, maybe Living Metal as well. But there really isn't that sense of being utterly technologically inferior as there was when they were first released, or even in previous editions when gauss weapons were ripping tanks to shreds. Much of their supposed superior technology functions exactly like everyone else's, or worse in the case of our teleport-based transport vehicles.
The new Overwatch rules are nice, but I don't see them greatly benefiting Necrons unless we have a viable assault loadout. Guess it depends on how easily Pratorians/Lychguard/Skorpekh can get into combat
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Or they copy 3rd ed and give necrons some actual teleportation abilities back.
So unlimited VoD usage, Monoliths actually doing their jobs, remove that stupid dynasty lock on the teleport stratagem, Tomb World Deployment and Invasion Beams actually useful, etc.
That'd be nice. One thing I don't like about Necrons now is how few of their rules really evoke the idea of a ridiculously technologically advanced civilisation. I think QS is about the only rule that really represents it particularly well, maybe Living Metal as well. But there really isn't that sense of being utterly technologically inferior as there was when they were first released, or even in previous editions when gauss weapons were ripping tanks to shreds. Much of their supposed superior technology functions exactly like everyone else's, or worse in the case of our teleport-based transport vehicles.
Totally agree, this has also been a sticking point with me and one of the reasons I haven't picked them back up after selling my old army back in 5th Ed. The 3rd, 4th Ed Crons could move like no other army at the time with their teleportation, and it was incredibly fun to play. Double Monolith and VoD constantly rearranging your battle line felt so good.
Eonfuzz wrote: mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
If you get rid of mortal wounds you have to get rid of invul saves, because there is no way around invuls except for mortal wounds. Like I have a player in my local meta who runs two max squads of vanguard vets with TH/SS, and mortal wounds is the only way to deal with them effectively.
Eonfuzz wrote: mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
If you get rid of mortal wounds you have to get rid of invul saves, because there is no way around invuls except for mortal wounds. Like I have a player in my local meta who runs two max squads of vanguard vets with TH/SS, and mortal wounds is the only way to deal with them effectively.
Maybe make Gauss AP work on invulns? A gauss flayer shooting a terminator with storm shield would give it a 3+/4++ rather than a 3+/3++
Or make it to where one less ap works, so Ap-2 would worsen an invuln by 1?
Eonfuzz wrote: mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
If you get rid of mortal wounds you have to get rid of invul saves, because there is no way around invuls except for mortal wounds. Like I have a player in my local meta who runs two max squads of vanguard vets with TH/SS, and mortal wounds is the only way to deal with them effectively.
Maybe make Gauss AP work on invulns? A gauss flayer shooting a terminator with storm shield would give it a 3+/4++ rather than a 3+/3++
Or make it to where one less ap works, so Ap-2 would worsen an invuln by 1?
I like the idea of gauss ap working on invulns. It's unique and solves some of our issues.
Eonfuzz wrote: mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
If you get rid of mortal wounds you have to get rid of invul saves, because there is no way around invuls except for mortal wounds. Like I have a player in my local meta who runs two max squads of vanguard vets with TH/SS, and mortal wounds is the only way to deal with them effectively.
You know what else kills those? Bolt shots. You don't NEED Mortal Wounds for that.
Eonfuzz wrote: mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
If you get rid of mortal wounds you have to get rid of invul saves, because there is no way around invuls except for mortal wounds. Like I have a player in my local meta who runs two max squads of vanguard vets with TH/SS, and mortal wounds is the only way to deal with them effectively.
Maybe make Gauss AP work on invulns? A gauss flayer shooting a terminator with storm shield would give it a 3+/4++ rather than a 3+/3++
Or make it to where one less ap works, so Ap-2 would worsen an invuln by 1?
I like the idea of gauss ap working on invulns. It's unique and solves some of our issues.
We also have the ability to get some easy Ap-3 on gauss too (Provided you field mephrit) so they could even cap it on a 5++ or 6++
Definitely gives our weapons some of that much needed punch
Eonfuzz wrote: mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
If you get rid of mortal wounds you have to get rid of invul saves, because there is no way around invuls except for mortal wounds. Like I have a player in my local meta who runs two max squads of vanguard vets with TH/SS, and mortal wounds is the only way to deal with them effectively.
Maybe make Gauss AP work on invulns? A gauss flayer shooting a terminator with storm shield would give it a 3+/4++ rather than a 3+/3++
Or make it to where one less ap works, so Ap-2 would worsen an invuln by 1?
I like the idea of gauss ap working on invulns. It's unique and solves some of our issues.
We also have the ability to get some easy Ap-3 on gauss too (Provided you field mephrit) so they could even cap it on a 5++ or 6++
Definitely gives our weapons some of that much needed punch
Perhaps Gauss could get a rule where the save can never be better than X?
Eonfuzz wrote: mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
If you get rid of mortal wounds you have to get rid of invul saves, because there is no way around invuls except for mortal wounds. Like I have a player in my local meta who runs two max squads of vanguard vets with TH/SS, and mortal wounds is the only way to deal with them effectively.
Maybe make Gauss AP work on invulns? A gauss flayer shooting a terminator with storm shield would give it a 3+/4++ rather than a 3+/3++
Or make it to where one less ap works, so Ap-2 would worsen an invuln by 1?
I like the idea of gauss ap working on invulns. It's unique and solves some of our issues.
We also have the ability to get some easy Ap-3 on gauss too (Provided you field mephrit) so they could even cap it on a 5++ or 6++
Definitely gives our weapons some of that much needed punch
Perhaps Gauss could get a rule where the save can never be better than X?
So against MEQ, they'd get a 4+ even in cover against the Flayers, but GEQ still get reduced to a 6+.
I'm not so sure about that, maybe make it that any unit that suffers casualties/wounds worsens their saves by 1 to a cap of X for the rest of the battle? That way the AP system's not mitigated?
Eonfuzz wrote: mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
If you get rid of mortal wounds you have to get rid of invul saves, because there is no way around invuls except for mortal wounds. Like I have a player in my local meta who runs two max squads of vanguard vets with TH/SS, and mortal wounds is the only way to deal with them effectively.
Maybe make Gauss AP work on invulns? A gauss flayer shooting a terminator with storm shield would give it a 3+/4++ rather than a 3+/3++
Or make it to where one less ap works, so Ap-2 would worsen an invuln by 1?
I like the idea of gauss ap working on invulns. It's unique and solves some of our issues.
We also have the ability to get some easy Ap-3 on gauss too (Provided you field mephrit) so they could even cap it on a 5++ or 6++
Definitely gives our weapons some of that much needed punch
Perhaps Gauss could get a rule where the save can never be better than X?
So against MEQ, they'd get a 4+ even in cover against the Flayers, but GEQ still get reduced to a 6+.
I'm not so sure about that, maybe make it that any unit that suffers casualties/wounds worsens their saves by 1 to a cap of X for the rest of the battle? That way the AP system's not mitigated?
But then you'd have to roll each shot individually, till the cap is hit.
Eonfuzz wrote: mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
If you get rid of mortal wounds you have to get rid of invul saves, because there is no way around invuls except for mortal wounds. Like I have a player in my local meta who runs two max squads of vanguard vets with TH/SS, and mortal wounds is the only way to deal with them effectively.
Maybe make Gauss AP work on invulns? A gauss flayer shooting a terminator with storm shield would give it a 3+/4++ rather than a 3+/3++
Or make it to where one less ap works, so Ap-2 would worsen an invuln by 1?
I like the idea of gauss ap working on invulns. It's unique and solves some of our issues.
We also have the ability to get some easy Ap-3 on gauss too (Provided you field mephrit) so they could even cap it on a 5++ or 6++
Definitely gives our weapons some of that much needed punch
Perhaps Gauss could get a rule where the save can never be better than X?
So against MEQ, they'd get a 4+ even in cover against the Flayers, but GEQ still get reduced to a 6+.
I'm not so sure about that, maybe make it that any unit that suffers casualties/wounds worsens their saves by 1 to a cap of X for the rest of the battle? That way the AP system's not mitigated?
But then you'd have to roll each shot individually, till the cap is hit.
That'd be tedious as all heck.
Make it a per turn/phase mechanic that goes into effect after a unit makes its attacks, that would get rid of tediousness I think
JNAProductions wrote: Which loops around to the RP issue-if you're gonna shoot a unit, you typically shoot it dead, not just a bit.
Point taken, so maybe just ap works on invuln to a min 6++?
I'd rather not have that happen-that disproportionately effects units like Harlequins or Daemonettes.
They don't HAVE an armor save to start with (well, a 6+) so they get shafted, whereas a Terminator with a Storm Shield still gets a 3+ (Flayer) or 4+ (Reaper/Blaster).
Eonfuzz wrote: mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
If you get rid of mortal wounds you have to get rid of invul saves, because there is no way around invuls except for mortal wounds. Like I have a player in my local meta who runs two max squads of vanguard vets with TH/SS, and mortal wounds is the only way to deal with them effectively.
Yes there is. You do know right inv saves fail right? You don't auto pass inv saves.
JNAProductions wrote: Which loops around to the RP issue-if you're gonna shoot a unit, you typically shoot it dead, not just a bit.
Point taken, so maybe just ap works on invuln to a min 6++?
I'd rather not have that happen-that disproportionately effects units like Harlequins or Daemonettes.
They don't HAVE an armor save to start with (well, a 6+) so they get shafted, whereas a Terminator with a Storm Shield still gets a 3+ (Flayer) or 4+ (Reaper/Blaster).
Fair enough. I don't think we'll be seeing a change to gauss though, it seems like they wouldve mentioned it by now, or in the article with the Gauss reaper
JNAProductions wrote: Which loops around to the RP issue-if you're gonna shoot a unit, you typically shoot it dead, not just a bit.
Point taken, so maybe just ap works on invuln to a min 6++?
I'd rather not have that happen-that disproportionately effects units like Harlequins or Daemonettes.
They don't HAVE an armor save to start with (well, a 6+) so they get shafted, whereas a Terminator with a Storm Shield still gets a 3+ (Flayer) or 4+ (Reaper/Blaster).
Fair enough. I don't think we'll be seeing a change to gauss though, it seems like they wouldve mentioned it by now, or in the article with the Gauss reaper
Yeah, this is ultimately wish-listing. But one can dream.
Eonfuzz wrote: mortal wounds are bad design and should be removed. It makes offensive stats all that matter (ie, it's defensive just hit it with mortals lol1).
Why not just have Gauss gain +2S if a 6 to hit is rolled. Making it slightly better against most things.
Doing that would *also* make it contrast nice with tesla. Gauss gets stronger, tesla hits more.
If you get rid of mortal wounds you have to get rid of invul saves, because there is no way around invuls except for mortal wounds. Like I have a player in my local meta who runs two max squads of vanguard vets with TH/SS, and mortal wounds is the only way to deal with them effectively.
You know what else kills those? Bolt shots. You don't NEED Mortal Wounds for that.
How many lick does to take to get to the center of a tootsieroll pop
2/3 * 1/2 * 1/3 = 1/9 so 10 divided by 1/9 takes 90 flayer shots, I understand space marines are blessed by the GW gods to have an unreasonable number of shots, but us poor necrons have never been able to chuck those kind of numbers. It would take over 30 Tesla immortals at a cost of more than 450 points, and that's literally the most efficient unit I have to do it. If he moves into cover (and why wouldn't he) forget about tesla because it's next to useless against a 2+ save. Also since they are vanguard vets I get one chance to get them on the way in.
To put it another way, the cost to benefit ratio of invul giving items like storm shields is based around it having a hard counter in the form of mortal wounds, without mortal wounds the granted durability is far in excess of the cost of that equipment, like a 3++ makes a unit like vanguard vets 3 times as durable against heavy weapon fire, for a cost of 25% the base model price.
So the new reserves rule seems great for a shooting army with access to bulky melee units (y'know, us). Protect your backline with wraiths that aren't even on the board to get shot at! It's more important for us than the overwatch change imo.
New rules for overwatch and "defensible" terrain are up. I'd suggest taking the gauss talk and wishlists to the proposed rules section. Just my opinion though.
A little bit late now we know RP is getting overhauled, but:
RP if it stayed as it is now, it would be better in 9th - with everything getting a price hike, the standard 2k game is now closer to 1.5k pts, therefore making it harder to wipe units...
Also, I'm sure one of the early 9th announcements mentioned a mandatory level of terrain? With lots more terrain on the board long firing lanes will disappear, making shorter range weapons much more useful. Also, reapers as a front line against an assault force would provide lethal overwatch - providing necrons get some way of using overwatch more than once per turn!
And for Gauss - making natural 6's double ap and damage seems like the best solution to me. Could even add that the unmodified ap also works on ++ saves.
Still want to see Tesla as rapid fire and blasters as assault, but the reaper reveal suggests that's not happening :(
MrPieChee wrote: A little bit late now we know RP is getting overhauled, but:
RP if it stayed as it is now, it would be better in 9th - with everything getting a price hike, the standard 2k game is now closer to 1.5k pts, therefore making it harder to wipe units...
Also, I'm sure one of the early 9th announcements mentioned a mandatory level of terrain? With lots more terrain on the board long firing lanes will disappear, making shorter range weapons much more useful. Also, reapers as a front line against an assault force would provide lethal overwatch - providing necrons get some way of using overwatch more than once per turn!
And for Gauss - making natural 6's double ap and damage seems like the best solution to me. Could even add that the unmodified ap also works on ++ saves.
Still want to see Tesla as rapid fire and blasters as assault, but the reaper reveal suggests that's not happening :(
Blast rule hurts RP. Real life effect remains to be seen.
They did reveal the name today as the Szarekhan dynasty, so for those that called it earlier in the thread, congrats! I'm still not a fan of it, but it is what it is.
MrPieChee wrote: A little bit late now we know RP is getting overhauled, but:
RP if it stayed as it is now, it would be better in 9th - with everything getting a price hike, the standard 2k game is now closer to 1.5k pts, therefore making it harder to wipe units...
Sasori wrote: They did reveal the name today as the Szarekhan dynasty, so for those that called it earlier in the thread, congrats! I'm still not a fan of it, but it is what it is.
Sasori wrote: They did reveal the name today as the Szarekhan dynasty, so for those that called it earlier in the thread, congrats! I'm still not a fan of it, but it is what it is.
Yeah not much of a fan of the name either. Seems uninspired imo.
Anyone wanna speculate on how this new class of Enmitic weapons is going to function? So far we've seen the Skorpekh Lord's Enmitic Annihilator and the Lokuhst Heavy Destroyers Enmitic Exterminator
Is it possible that when the new Destroyer kit comes out they'll also have Enmitic weapons?
Anyone wanna speculate on how this new class of Enmitic weapons is going to function? So far we've seen the Skorpekh Lord's Enmitic Annihilator and the Lokuhst Heavy Destroyers Enmitic Exterminator
Is it possible that when the new Destroyer kit comes out they'll also have Enmitic weapons?
My understanding is that our current destroyers are being replaced by the Lokuhst destroyers. There was a twitch stream a while back that talked about the Skorpekh destroyers, the Lokuhst destroyers, (which would replace our current destroyers) and then a third variant was mentioned without a name.
I'm still really curious about the figure that's creeping behind the Monolith on the left in the released photo. Maybe a new flayed one? I don't think the sphere is attached to the model, I think it's in the background, but I could be completely wrong. Time will tell.
I was a little disappointed with the Gauss Reaper's stats. Doesn't seem very useful, but who knows. It all depends on other factors in the game that we don't know about. Once they confirmed they were re-booting reanimation protocols I was happy. I'm not expecting a miracle, but the fact that they're going to try something different is a good sign to me.
Did anyone notice that the Royal Warden is equipped with a Relic Gauss Blaster? I wonder if that will be something like master-crafted. I'm curious what its stats will be to set it apart from a regular gauss blaster. If there's a relic gauss blaster, maybe there's a relic tesla carbine!
I think our army is finally being fleshed out (no pun intended). We're getting a lot of what I've seen the community asking for over the last 2 or 3 editions, at least it seems that way. Maybe Deathmarks will be re-worked to be the actual assassins they're described as too!
Kharne the Befriender wrote: Is it possible that when the new Destroyer kit comes out they'll also have Enmitic weapons?
Well they need people who already have Necron armies to buy the new kit, so of course they will.
Genius, truly they are blessed with good marketing consultants
And I don't think that the model behind the monolith is a flayed one, I think that'll be the third destroyer or something else. I think Flayed Ones will come with Pariah but thats my wishful thinking.
I agree with what a few other people said that the Reaper is more of a shock tactic or one-trick-pony than anything.
The Royal Warden sprue didnt come with a carbine so I doubt it'll have the option
Anyone wanna speculate on how this new class of Enmitic weapons is going to function? So far we've seen the Skorpekh Lord's Enmitic Annihilator and the Lokuhst Heavy Destroyers Enmitic Exterminator
Is it possible that when the new Destroyer kit comes out they'll also have Enmitic weapons?
I suspect it'll be something like on a unmodified 6 to wound it does a MW in addition to normal damage. I also hope it has quite a few shots as it would make a nice alternative to the Heavy Gauss Cannon for multiple tough targets vs 1 really tought target
Anyone wanna speculate on how this new class of Enmitic weapons is going to function? So far we've seen the Skorpekh Lord's Enmitic Annihilator and the Lokuhst Heavy Destroyers Enmitic Exterminator
Is it possible that when the new Destroyer kit comes out they'll also have Enmitic weapons?
My understanding is that our current destroyers are being replaced by the Lokuhst destroyers. There was a twitch stream a while back that talked about the Skorpekh destroyers, the Lokuhst destroyers, (which would replace our current destroyers) and then a third variant was mentioned without a name.
I'm still really curious about the figure that's creeping behind the Monolith on the left in the released photo. Maybe a new flayed one? I don't think the sphere is attached to the model, I think it's in the background, but I could be completely wrong. Time will tell.
I was a little disappointed with the Gauss Reaper's stats. Doesn't seem very useful, but who knows. It all depends on other factors in the game that we don't know about. Once they confirmed they were re-booting reanimation protocols I was happy. I'm not expecting a miracle, but the fact that they're going to try something different is a good sign to me.
Did anyone notice that the Royal Warden is equipped with a Relic Gauss Blaster? I wonder if that will be something like master-crafted. I'm curious what its stats will be to set it apart from a regular gauss blaster. If there's a relic gauss blaster, maybe there's a relic tesla carbine!
I think our army is finally being fleshed out (no pun intended). We're getting a lot of what I've seen the community asking for over the last 2 or 3 editions, at least it seems that way. Maybe Deathmarks will be re-worked to be the actual assassins they're described as too!
Someone mentioned that GW is redesigning RP so its more balanced but harder to stop. Apparently GW wants to go back to when neurons were a rolling gun line so even if our guns are mid range we will be able to get into range
Someone mentioned that GW is redesigning RP so its more balanced but harder to stop. Apparently GW wants to go back to when neurons were a rolling gun line so even if our guns are mid range we will be able to get into range
Kharne the Befriender wrote: Is it possible that when the new Destroyer kit comes out they'll also have Enmitic weapons?
Well they need people who already have Necron armies to buy the new kit, so of course they will.
Genius, truly they are blessed with good marketing consultants
And I don't think that the model behind the monolith is a flayed one, I think that'll be the third destroyer or something else. I think Flayed Ones will come with Pariah but thats my wishful thinking.
I agree with what a few other people said that the Reaper is more of a shock tactic or one-trick-pony than anything.
The Royal Warden sprue didnt come with a carbine so I doubt it'll have the option
The model behind the Monolith is likely some sort of melee assassin type character in the vein of Deathmarks. Has a stealthy look with the same one-eyed head of the Deathmarks.
My prediction for the model behind the Monolith is that it is the 3rd Destroyer Cult they've hinted at and rather than being melee (Skorpekh) or ranged (Lokhust) it's more of a de-buffing or support type deal. Like an aura called "Nihilistic Dread" that reduces enemy LD or T or something.
Someone mentioned that GW is redesigning RP so its more balanced but harder to stop. Apparently GW wants to go back to when neurons were a rolling gun line so even if our guns are mid range we will be able to get into range
This has always been the Necron MO, no?
It has but I its not really worked for us in 7th. This edition from what I'm aware we've relied more on long range support to soften up the enemy as sending in warriors usually gets them melted.
Pretty much every game I've played with warriors has then annihilated before they get chance to come back so I usually hung them back and find DDA or sent in faster units on the flanks but now they want to make it so warriors can march up and still have that chance of coming back even under heavy fire
Someone mentioned that GW is redesigning RP so its more balanced but harder to stop. Apparently GW wants to go back to when neurons were a rolling gun line so even if our guns are mid range we will be able to get into range
This has always been the Necron MO, no?
It has but they want to doubly down on it. This edition from what I'm aware we've relied more on long range support to soften up the enemy as sending in warriors usually gets them melted.
Pretty much every game I've played with warriors has then annihilated before they get chance to come back so I usually hung them back and find DDA or sent in faster units on the flanks but now they want to make it so warriors can march up and still have that chance of coming back even under heavy fire
Sure. Also I'm pretty sure GW intended for them to be slow and sturdy, and for RP to be functional also in 8th.
Someone mentioned that GW is redesigning RP so its more balanced but harder to stop. Apparently GW wants to go back to when neurons were a rolling gun line so even if our guns are mid range we will be able to get into range
This has always been the Necron MO, no?
It has but they want to doubly down on it. This edition from what I'm aware we've relied more on long range support to soften up the enemy as sending in warriors usually gets them melted.
Pretty much every game I've played with warriors has then annihilated before they get chance to come back so I usually hung them back and find DDA or sent in faster units on the flanks but now they want to make it so warriors can march up and still have that chance of coming back even under heavy fire
Sure. Also I'm pretty sure GW intended for them to be slow and sturdy, and for RP to be functional also in 8th.
The intention has always been there, is my point.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I'm sure GW intended a lot of things with the necron rules in 8th. Here's hoping that they came up with a good mechanism for RP. I have no idea what it could be and all the suggestions I've heard in this forum (proposed rules section) have been either overcomplicated, inefficient/ineffectual, poorly designed/thought out, or all of the above.
Writing rules isn't easy, but I'm hopeful they will have at least improved RP.
Reanimation protocol rolls are on a 6+, but morale no longer means perma death. If the unit is destroyed, place a marker where the last model was, next turn you roll RP rolls for the unit. When setting the unit back up, models must be placed within coherency of at least 2 other models from that unit, even if they too have come back this turn. And let them res within 1" of enemy units as well
Reanimation protocol rolls are on a 6+, but morale no longer means perma death. If the unit is destroyed, place a marker where the last model was, next turn you roll RP rolls for the unit. When setting the unit back up, models must be placed within coherency of at least 2 other models from that unit, even if they too have come back this turn. And let them res within 1" of enemy units as well
Leave it on 5+, and if a unit is destroyed, reanimations can join a unit within 6" or 12" anyway.
Reanimation protocol rolls are on a 6+, but morale no longer means perma death. If the unit is destroyed, place a marker where the last model was, next turn you roll RP rolls for the unit. When setting the unit back up, models must be placed within coherency of at least 2 other models from that unit, even if they too have come back this turn. And let them res within 1" of enemy units as well
Leave it on 5+, and if a unit is destroyed, reanimations can join a unit within 6" or 12" anyway.
Reanimation protocol rolls are on a 6+, but morale no longer means perma death. If the unit is destroyed, place a marker where the last model was, next turn you roll RP rolls for the unit. When setting the unit back up, models must be placed within coherency of at least 2 other models from that unit, even if they too have come back this turn. And let them res within 1" of enemy units as well
Leave it on 5+, and if a unit is destroyed, reanimations can join a unit within 6" or 12" anyway.
That would be cool
This makes it easier for the common units to reanimate after destruction, but harder for rarer units.
Reanimation protocol rolls are on a 6+, but morale no longer means perma death. If the unit is destroyed, place a marker where the last model was, next turn you roll RP rolls for the unit. When setting the unit back up, models must be placed within coherency of at least 2 other models from that unit, even if they too have come back this turn. And let them res within 1" of enemy units as well
Leave it on 5+, and if a unit is destroyed, reanimations can join a unit within 6" or 12" anyway.
That would be cool
This makes it easier for the common units to reanimate after destruction, but harder for rarer units.
True, but still a net improvement. Id also imagine a unit wouldnt be able to increase above starting size
We’ll be having a peek at some of the new rules inside Pariah, as well as continuing our Faction Focus articles exploring how everyone is going to fare in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. There will also be a look at (or should that be a listen to) the soundtrack to Angels of Death, the forthcoming animated series. We have another exciting week planned on Warhammer TV for you too.
We’ll be having a peek at some of the new rules inside Pariah, as well as continuing our Faction Focus articles exploring how everyone is going to fare in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. There will also be a look at (or should that be a listen to) the soundtrack to Angels of Death, the forthcoming animated series. We have another exciting week planned on Warhammer TV for you too.
Sweet, im right for once.
Although they dont even mention what Necrons get besides szeras, so im skeptical as to what we get
We’ll be having a peek at some of the new rules inside Pariah, as well as continuing our Faction Focus articles exploring how everyone is going to fare in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. There will also be a look at (or should that be a listen to) the soundtrack to Angels of Death, the forthcoming animated series. We have another exciting week planned on Warhammer TV for you too.
Sweet, im right for once.
Although they dont even mention what Necrons get besides szeras, so im skeptical as to what we get
If they gave away the new rules in the Sunday Preview there wouldn't be a point to doing a sneak peek later in the week.
We’ll be having a peek at some of the new rules inside Pariah, as well as continuing our Faction Focus articles exploring how everyone is going to fare in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. There will also be a look at (or should that be a listen to) the soundtrack to Angels of Death, the forthcoming animated series. We have another exciting week planned on Warhammer TV for you too.
Sweet, im right for once.
Although they dont even mention what Necrons get besides szeras, so im skeptical as to what we get
If they gave away the new rules in the Sunday Preview there wouldn't be a point to doing a sneak peek later in the week.
My bad, not what I meant, they didn't even say if we were getting strats/relics/etc like they do with every other preview.
My though is there are no strats/relics/etc for Necrons in Pariah, because they wouldn't overlook stating that if there are. Therefore, the most logical conclusion is Codex Necrons is not far away. No point in putting out additional rules in the PA that are immediately (less than 2 months) folded into a new codex.
Reanimation protocol rolls are on a 6+, but morale no longer means perma death. If the unit is destroyed, place a marker where the last model was, next turn you roll RP rolls for the unit. When setting the unit back up, models must be placed within coherency of at least 2 other models from that unit, even if they too have come back this turn. And let them res within 1" of enemy units as well
How you fix them either not giving any vp's for being killed seeing units would be essentially impossible to keep down or on same result bleed vp's like there's no end to it?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
alextroy wrote: My though is there are no strats/relics/etc for Necrons in Pariah, because they wouldn't overlook stating that if there are. Therefore, the most logical conclusion is Codex Necrons is not far away. No point in putting out additional rules in the PA that are immediately (less than 2 months) folded into a new codex.
Or they keep PA around and not have everything transfered. They have stated not all from PA's goes to new codexes anyway. No doubt leaving best parts to PA so competive players need to buy both anyway
Automatically Appended Next Post:
IHateNids wrote: I thought it was made clear that PA book sremain in circulation and that none of that stuff is getting Codex'd
Or am I hearing things again?
They said some stuff would be put to to codex. "best of" style. Of course GW being GW will likely leave the real best stuff to PA. From orks the stompa mob thing goes to codex but SSAG relic is left to PA
IHateNids wrote: I thought it was made clear that PA book sremain in circulation and that none of that stuff is getting Codex'd
Or am I hearing things again?
I strongly suspect what they really mean is nothing in PA is technically invalidated going into 9th. So all your rules still work, maybe with a few tweaks here and there. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 9th edition Codices completely replace the PA books. I'd bet quite a lot of money that the Necron Codex will contain the new Szeras rules, for example. If they really do try to go with this idea of both the new Codex and the PA books being valid at the same time I can see that causing problems.
Reanimation protocol rolls are on a 6+, but morale no longer means perma death. If the unit is destroyed, place a marker where the last model was, next turn you roll RP rolls for the unit. When setting the unit back up, models must be placed within coherency of at least 2 other models from that unit, even if they too have come back this turn. And let them res within 1" of enemy units as well
How you fix them either not giving any vp's for being killed seeing units would be essentially impossible to keep down or on same result bleed vp's like there's no end to it?
They only give up a VP for being killed the first time the unit is wiped
I'm pretty Okay with this. Saves me 40$ and I can just work on getting everything ready for 9th. Not like I was going to get many games in before the codex anyway.
Would have preferred that we got a sneak peak at the stuff they are doing to fix Necrons though.
And to be kind of fair to GW, I think it was lose/lose/ They print rules in this that get invalidated with the dex, people are mad. They don't print rules, people are mad.
Sasori wrote: I'm pretty Okay with this. Saves me 40$ and I can just work on getting everything ready for 9th. Not like I was going to get many games in before the codex anyway.
Would have preferred that we got a sneak peak at the stuff they are doing to fix Necrons though.
Yep, same here. And tomorrow's stream will be on Inquisition rules, so we can skip that too.
Sasori wrote: I'm pretty Okay with this. Saves me 40$ and I can just work on getting everything ready for 9th. Not like I was going to get many games in before the codex anyway.
Would have preferred that we got a sneak peak at the stuff they are doing to fix Necrons though.
And to be kind of fair to GW, I think it was lose/lose/ They print rules in this that get invalidated with the dex, people are mad. They don't print rules, people are mad.
I see your point there, and now that I've thought about it. If necrons are getting a big rework rules wise, anything they might have made for 8th might just get invalidated for 9th.
In which case it was an L GW had to take, but one that'll be better than "I paid 40 for rules that don't even work anymore"
alextroy wrote: My though is there are no strats/relics/etc for Necrons in Pariah, because they wouldn't overlook stating that if there are. Therefore, the most logical conclusion is Codex Necrons is not far away. No point in putting out additional rules in the PA that are immediately (less than 2 months) folded into a new codex.
Or they keep PA around and not have everything transfered. They have stated not all from PA's goes to new codexes anyway. No doubt leaving best parts to PA so competive players need to buy both anyway
Stu Black pretty much said the same thing I did in the stream. No point putting rules in the PA when the new Codex is coming out really soon. Rejoice Necron players. If you don't want the rules for playing on an Necron Tomb world and the background for the Pariah Nexus, you can wait for the Codex to come out.
punisher357 wrote: Also in that article, they mentioned that illuminor szeras has an ability to boost warriors
Wow, new szeras gets an ability which the old one already has,
So you know for a fact that it's the same ability? Didn't think so.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The community website has a pic of Pariah's table of contents up.
I didn't really follow the other Psychic Awakening book reveals. Should we be concerned that the only thing Necron in the table of contents is Illuminor Szeras?
punisher357 wrote: Also in that article, they mentioned that illuminor szeras has an ability to boost warriors
Wow, new szeras gets an ability which the old one already has,
So you know for a fact that it's the same ability? Didn't think so.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The community website has a pic of Pariah's table of contents up.
I didn't really follow the other Psychic Awakening book reveals. Should we be concerned that the only thing Necron in the table of contents is Illuminor Szeras?
punisher357 wrote: Also in that article, they mentioned that illuminor szeras has an ability to boost warriors
Wow, new szeras gets an ability which the old one already has,
So you know for a fact that it's the same ability? Didn't think so.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The community website has a pic of Pariah's table of contents up.
I didn't really follow the other Psychic Awakening book reveals. Should we be concerned that the only thing Necron in the table of contents is Illuminor Szeras?
Necrons arent getting anything aside from Szeras
Other than a Theatre of War based on a Necron Tomb World.
I can only imagine what would happen if necron rules came out in the last PA. and then a few weeks later the necron codex with changed costs and rules came out. I am sure necron players would be super happy.
So I was looking at past articles on the upcoming necron models. The lokhust destroyer has a "gauss destructor" or an enmitic annihilator. I can't believe I missed that before.
So no more heavy gauss cannon, I guess.
I wonder what other weapon names will be changing.
Lance845 wrote: wow. Necrons got fethed. No build your own dynasty rules or nothing. What a bunch of bs.
Err - pretty sure they're getting a codex?
It's a pretty big assumption to make that the rules Necrons would have gotten in PA are going into the codex, especially when they've already said that everyone else gets to keep their PA books.
I'm not saying it won't happen but... the odds are poor.
Lance845 wrote: wow. Necrons got fethed. No build your own dynasty rules or nothing. What a bunch of bs.
Err - pretty sure they're getting a codex?
It's a pretty big assumption to make that the rules Necrons would have gotten in PA are going into the codex, especially when they've already said that everyone else gets to keep their PA books.
I'm not saying it won't happen but... the odds are poor.
Likewise they'd be pissed they had to buy a campaign book for 6 pages of rules that were intentionally left out of their codex. GW can't win but they did the best thing for people in the long run, even if it means necrons don't have a name generator (the thing people clearly wanted).
Lance845 wrote: wow. Necrons got fethed. No build your own dynasty rules or nothing. What a bunch of bs.
Err - pretty sure they're getting a codex?
So is everyone else. Did you really think they haven't been testing/writing 9th ed since PA started? Everyones been getting their build your own _____ rules since PA started and SM codex 2.0 came out. But necrons don't get their rules until their codex drops?
Lance845 wrote: wow. Necrons got fethed. No build your own dynasty rules or nothing. What a bunch of bs.
Err - pretty sure they're getting a codex?
So is everyone else. Did you really think they haven't been testing/writing 9th ed since PA started? Everyones been getting their build your own _____ rules since PA started and SM codex 2.0 came out. But necrons don't get their rules until their codex drops?
Well, yeah, they are getting their codex right after PA. All it means is that Necron players don't have to waste money on PA and just have to wait for the codex to come out.
Let me put it this way, if there were necron rules in PA, and you know that the necron codex is coming out soon after, would you still spend money on PA?
I wouldn't. So Necrons not getting extensive rules in PA is a non-issue for me.
Lance845 wrote: wow. Necrons got fethed. No build your own dynasty rules or nothing. What a bunch of bs.
Err - pretty sure they're getting a codex?
So is everyone else. Did you really think they haven't been testing/writing 9th ed since PA started? Everyones been getting their build your own _____ rules since PA started and SM codex 2.0 came out. But necrons don't get their rules until their codex drops?
Interesting, where are my build your own chaos warband, diy daemon legions or home brew orders for sisters?
Bosskelot wrote: Necrons are looking like the first army to be getting their 9th ed Codex so waiting an extra 3 or so weeks isn't exactly a big deal.
where is this time frame coming from?
Probably just deductive reasoning. There was a definite pattern with 8E's timeframes and they were trying to get books out ASAP there.
8th edition came out with the Indices in June 2017. Codex: Space Marines was the first release in July 2017.
If you want a full release schedule?
August 2017 was CSM and Grey Knights
September 2017 was Death Guard and AdMech
October was Guard and Craftworlds
November was Tyranids
December was Blood and Dark Angels
January 2018 was Daemons and Custodes
February was Thousand Sons
March was Tau Empire, Necrons, and Drukhari
April, from the list I'm seeing, had no Codex release.
May was Deathwatch and Harlequins
June was Imperial Knights
July had no Codex release.
August had Space Wolves
September had Gellerpox Infected and Elucidian Starstriders via Kill Team's "Rogue Trader". This is a kinda/sorta counts.
October was Orks
November had no Codex release.
December was a dead month for "NEW!" items, as usual.
January 2019 had no Codex release.
February had Genestealer Cults
March had Vanguard Space Marines and Chaos Marines Daemonkin minibooks via Shadowspear. Again, a kinda/sorta counts. Also the 2E of Chaos Marines alongside of Vigilus Ablaze seems to have been here.
April, May, June were relatively...not there again it seems.
July marked Chaos Knights.
August was C: Space Marines and the supplements ran for 3 months after that.
September, October were dead months for Codex releases aside from the Marine supplements and Psychic Awakening starting up.
November was the Sisters of Battle codex via the big box--the full thing didn't come for awhile yet(january or february 2020 I think it was?)
I would not be shocked if that were the case, Therion.
We are probably looking at preorders for 9E opening up on 7/4 or 7/11, going for two weeks(meaning either 7/18 or 7/25 for a release) and then the 'Expanded' stuff the following week or a breather for Sons of Behemat to drop before August starts with Necrons and Marines.
Therion wrote: I’m pretty close to 100% sure both SM and Necrons get codexes in August.
I'll be shocked if there is no Necron Codex in August. I'll be equally shocked if there is a Space Marine Codex anytime this year, since that would mean that last August's Codex Space Marines lasted less than 18 months. GW loves Space Marines, but I don't see them antagonizing their customers like that.
Given the way PA went and offhand comments from GW, I'll be surprised if the next three codex aren't Necrons, Deathwatch, and Harlequins.
Therion wrote: I’m pretty close to 100% sure both SM and Necrons get codexes in August.
I'll be shocked if there is no Necron Codex in August. I'll be equally shocked if there is a Space Marine Codex anytime this year, since that would mean that last August's Codex Space Marines lasted less than 18 months. GW loves Space Marines, but I don't see them antagonizing their customers like that.
Given the way PA went and offhand comments from GW, I'll be surprised if the next three codex aren't Necrons, Deathwatch, and Harlequins.
You should prepare to get shocked then, because I got it on pretty damn good authority (and know some stuff from the new codex: sm already) that it’s the first or second one out the door. In August.
Don’t ask me if supplements will be invalidated also, I don’t have that answer yet. But what I do know is that BA and SW etc. will be supplements in the future, so the upcoming dex will be some kind of ultimate Marine book.
If there is no Codex for a while (1-2 months) after Indominus box being released, there better be an updated Resurrection Protocol rule released in the Box set. There are units in that Box set that have rules that do not work under the current Necron Codex version.
Lance845 wrote: wow. Necrons got fethed. No build your own dynasty rules or nothing. What a bunch of bs.
Err - pretty sure they're getting a codex?
So is everyone else. Did you really think they haven't been testing/writing 9th ed since PA started? Everyones been getting their build your own _____ rules since PA started and SM codex 2.0 came out. But necrons don't get their rules until their codex drops?
Well, the release timeline is all out of whack. This book should have come earlier. No sense in putting in there anyway with a proper codex around the corner. Here's hoping they didn't phone it in like last time.
You'd think with a name of "Pariah" one might see an anti-Psyker Stratagem or Relic, at least, if not units or buildings of models they haven't made yet.
Charistoph wrote: You'd think with a name of "Pariah" one might see an anti-Psyker Stratagem or Relic, at least, if not units or buildings of models they haven't made yet.
Yeah, this feels like a really crappy bait and switch from GW. They call the book Pariah and say it'll have Necron content, then much closer to its release they tell us it's about the Pariah Nexus area of space (or something, not really been keeping up with the PA fluff too much) rather than the iconic unit of an army the book features.
I'm really hoping Necrons get some sort of proper anti-psyker tech in their new Codex. One of the most annoying things about the current army is how bad they are on that front. Considering they defeated the most psychically powerful race that has ever existed in the galaxy and previous fluff had them genetically engineering some of the most potent anti-psyker beings that seems like an odd omission.
Charistoph wrote: You'd think with a name of "Pariah" one might see an anti-Psyker Stratagem or Relic, at least, if not units or buildings of models they haven't made yet.
Yeah, this feels like a really crappy bait and switch from GW. They call the book Pariah and say it'll have Necron content, then much closer to its release they tell us it's about the Pariah Nexus area of space (or something, not really been keeping up with the PA fluff too much) rather than the iconic unit of an army the book features.
I mean, they've literally been pulling this sort of thing since book 1.
"Oh hey, check out these new Howling Banshees, now with alternate heads to represent ones that have taken the Ynnari path."
"Oh wow, I guess the Ynnari rules must be getting expanded, perhaps with rules much more tailored to individual units or (former) factions."
"Hah, just messing with you! Nah, it's the same garbage we released in WD. But we couldn't be arsed making any content for Dark Eldar, and the book was looking a bit thin with just a handful of pages of Eldar stuff. The Ynari rules, though, proved to be excellent padding. We're even thinking of turning the ones that don't sell into Citadel-brand loft-insulation."
Charistoph wrote: You'd think with a name of "Pariah" one might see an anti-Psyker Stratagem or Relic, at least, if not units or buildings of models they haven't made yet.
Yeah, this feels like a really crappy bait and switch from GW. They call the book Pariah and say it'll have Necron content, then much closer to its release they tell us it's about the Pariah Nexus area of space (or something, not really been keeping up with the PA fluff too much) rather than the iconic unit of an army the book features.
I'm really hoping Necrons get some sort of proper anti-psyker tech in their new Codex. One of the most annoying things about the current army is how bad they are on that front. Considering they defeated the most psychically powerful race that has ever existed in the galaxy and previous fluff had them genetically engineering some of the most potent anti-psyker beings that seems like an odd omission.
Come on now, iconic unit? It existed for 2 editions and is only noteworthy by virtue of it being removed from the army, newer players (anyone playing less than 9 years) won't even know that they were a unit before. Pariahs are also the term for psychically null beings; which the crons used to make their unit and one of the new models is a psychic null.
Charistoph wrote: You'd think with a name of "Pariah" one might see an anti-Psyker Stratagem or Relic, at least, if not units or buildings of models they haven't made yet.
Yeah, this feels like a really crappy bait and switch from GW. They call the book Pariah and say it'll have Necron content, then much closer to its release they tell us it's about the Pariah Nexus area of space (or something, not really been keeping up with the PA fluff too much) rather than the iconic unit of an army the book features.
I'm really hoping Necrons get some sort of proper anti-psyker tech in their new Codex. One of the most annoying things about the current army is how bad they are on that front. Considering they defeated the most psychically powerful race that has ever existed in the galaxy and previous fluff had them genetically engineering some of the most potent anti-psyker beings that seems like an odd omission.
Come on now, iconic unit? It existed for 2 editions and is only noteworthy by virtue of it being removed from the army, newer players (anyone playing less than 9 years) won't even know that they were a unit before. Pariahs are also the term for psychically null beings; which the crons used to make their unit and one of the new models is a psychic null.
For what they were I think pariah were pretty iconic. Fair enough they got shot off the board if you played them but nobody would let them near their units with them having armour bane Str 5 attacks that allowed no kind of save whatsoever.
They were very risky but at the time they were arguably out strongest CC unit.
Then we got lychguard instead so which are more survivable but lack the ability to eat anything like the old Pariahs could
Well the book includes inquisition and sisters of silence. The story COULD have been about how Szeras got a hold of some sisters of silence, tore them apart to study them, and through them with some black stone tech reinforcement built the pariahs as psychic nulls for the necrons.
Instead the story is a wet fart nobody gives a feth about.
So, what are your thoughts on the new morale ans reserves for necrons?
Being able to put any stuff in 'deep strike' is certainly interesting; finally, you can use LoS-blocker terrain to put some gauss reaper warriors behind - they'll either shoo the enemy away or attract them to, making the enemy leave an objective or disrupting their plans.
Same for Wraiths or Skorpekhs!
Veil of Darkness for everyone!
---
On morale, now units will usually lose less models than today. Also a plus for 20-man warrior units
Vector Strike wrote: So, what are your thoughts on the new morale ans reserves for necrons?
Being able to put any stuff in 'deep strike' is certainly interesting; finally, you can use LoS-blocker terrain to put some gauss reaper warriors behind - they'll either shoo the enemy away or attract them to, making the enemy leave an objective or disrupting their plans.
Same for Wraiths or Skorpekhs!
Veil of Darkness for everyone!
---
On morale, now units will usually lose less models than today. Also a plus for 20-man warrior units
The morale change helps the 20 blob warriors, but I think you were taking Immortal Pride in most cases anyway. I don't think the morale change is enough to really counteract the blast rules.
I don't think we'll see the Morale stuff effect us that much.
The strategic reserves is much more interesting in my opinion. It's not quite a veil of darkness for interesting, but really will need to play some games to feel it out. Doesn't do anything for Guass Reapers though, which is too bad.
I think the new morale system is better for Necrons, I'm also hoping we get some a faction wide morale shenanigan like ignoring modifiers to combat attrition.
And with the new strategic reserve rules, I'm definitely going to be trying out 2x 20 Reaper squads from each edge, at least once I reckon
Strategic reserves kind of hurts Nephrekh as the Translocation Crypt stratagem doesn't seem as impressive any more. Though, I suppose this can change with the new book coming out.
Kharne the Befriender wrote: I think the new morale system is better for Necrons, I'm also hoping we get some a faction wide morale shenanigan like ignoring modifiers to combat attrition.
And with the new strategic reserve rules, I'm definitely going to be trying out 2x 20 Reaper squads from each edge, at least once I reckon
It does make Immortal Pride a little less auto-take when running Silver Tide, at least.
Using reapers to sneak up on the enemy does sound interesting, but you still have to keep them 9" away from enemies, so no surprise double tap.
The changes to flyers makes necron aircraft better as a whole. Which is great, because Necron aircraft provide some useful tactical options. I just hope we can disembark after a move. Then we can have a night scythe come in and unload troops in the enemy's face.
The changes to morale will really be biggest in how they interact with new RP and if you have to separate out your dead and fleeing models anymore. Overall it's a general better system, but I'd still be incentivised to take Immortal Pride when running big blobs just because the extra housekeeping on RP is just really tedious.
IHateNids wrote: If Night Scythes become valid again, I am gonna just drop 20 Reapers into double-tap range from them...
Because, y'know, most of the guys at my local have forgotten to fear the Necron Flyby from 6th
Bring back the flying bakery
Agreed. As someone with 5 (1 Doom, 4 interchangable), and eyes on a Bomber if the rules get better, I eagerly await our bakery being back in buisness.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bosskelot wrote: The changes to morale will really be biggest in how they interact with new RP and if you have to separate out your dead and fleeing models anymore. Overall it's a general better system, but I'd still be incentivised to take Immortal Pride when running big blobs just because the extra housekeeping on RP is just really tedious.
I made a point of placing "dead" models close to their unit for marker purposes, and putting those that "ran" straight off the table. Granted, I'm lucky enough our local has 8' tables so there's room at the ends to do such a thing, but it was a small trick that worked for me.
If you’re wondering how to paint them, we have good news for you. A new set of paints will be released to help you achieve that aged brass look, alongside our first-ever Technical paint formulated to create glowing effects! We’ll tell you all about them a little later on, including some handy painting guides to show you how to achieve the same look. Keep an eye out!
While they've mentioned a few times of leaning into the horror aspect, that picture really does it.
While I like the new brass scheme, to me it's not very horror-like. While I understand that may not be the intent, it's a bit at odds with the theme they were going for, IMO.
Warhammer Community wrote:... alongside our first-ever Technical paint formulated to create glowing effects!
I think I'm more excited for this than I am for 9th edition!
I'm a little bit concerned what this might be. I've found Hexwraith Flame, Aethermatic Blue, and Warp Lightning to be fairly effective at making glowy effects. Makes me wonder what this actually will be.
Warhammer Community wrote:... alongside our first-ever Technical paint formulated to create glowing effects!
I think I'm more excited for this than I am for 9th edition!
I'm a little bit concerned what this might be. I've found Hexwraith Flame, Aethermatic Blue, and Warp Lightning to be fairly effective at making glowy effects. Makes me wonder what this actually will be.
I was planning on seeing what kind of effect I could get over a layered metal base (hadn't decided between gold or silver) with thinned Warp Lightning similar to what they've done with some of the Pre-Heresy Space Marines (e.g., Alpha Legion). I'll hold off on this until I see what the new Technical paint can do.
Interesting quote from the Tau faction focus today.
The largest challenge for the T’au Empire in the new edition is the change to the Fly keyword. It no longer offers units the ability to Fall Back and shoot, which means you need to put extra effort into screening enemy charges and preventing your critical shooting units from being engaged in combat.
It looks like there's no more fall back and shoot with fly.
The largest challenge for the T’au Empire in the new edition is the change to the Fly keyword. It no longer offers units the ability to Fall Back and shoot, which means you need to put extra effort into screening enemy charges and preventing your critical shooting units from being engaged in combat.
It looks like there's no more fall back and shoot with fly.
Its annoying but I think kinda of fair. It was silly how floaty tanks could just leave combat and shoot whilst ground based tanks couldn't
The largest challenge for the T’au Empire in the new edition is the change to the Fly keyword. It no longer offers units the ability to Fall Back and shoot, which means you need to put extra effort into screening enemy charges and preventing your critical shooting units from being engaged in combat.
It looks like there's no more fall back and shoot with fly.
Its annoying but I think kinda of fair. It was silly how floaty tanks could just leave combat and shoot whilst ground based tanks couldn't
What do you think about destroyers? Its tough to say without knowing more about the new ones, but they likely wont be monsters so cant shoot in combat and if they fall back now they cant shoot.
MannyMcCoconut wrote: What do you think about destroyers? Its tough to say without knowing more about the new ones, but they likely wont be monsters so cant shoot in combat and if they fall back now they cant shoot.
With the size of the new Lokhust Destroyers I would say that there's a good chance that they may gain the MONSTER keyword when the nex codex drops.
H.B.M.C. wrote: More notable is the bit about their warriors having bits of Blackstone.
Seems their dynastic trait will be some sort of anti-psyker thing.
Sounds like it, which is unfortunate. That's automatically useless against some armies (or builds) and somewhere between mediocre and must-have (depending on the effect) for the rest.
I find it frustrating that they still haven't worked out that particular kink of their design space.
An army trait that's universal or can be built around is good, something the opponent can just opt to not interact with is terrible.
MannyMcCoconut wrote: What do you think about destroyers? Its tough to say without knowing more about the new ones, but they likely wont be monsters so cant shoot in combat and if they fall back now they cant shoot.
With the size of the new Lokhust Destroyers I would say that there's a good chance that they may gain the MONSTER keyword when the nex codex drops.
MannyMcCoconut wrote: What do you think about destroyers? Its tough to say without knowing more about the new ones, but they likely wont be monsters so cant shoot in combat and if they fall back now they cant shoot.
With the size of the new Lokhust Destroyers I would say that there's a good chance that they may gain the MONSTER keyword when the nex codex drops.
Spoiler:
Maybe, but models have generally been getting bigger over the last decade or so and these seem to be in the same sort of size range as Ogryns and Tyranid Warriors, maybe a little bigger. I think the inclusion of a proper base gives the impression of a much bigger model than the current Destroyers too, where the clear flying stand was often hidden by the model itself.
If they do end up as Monsters I hope GW adjusts how some of our buffs work since a lot of them only affect units with the Infantry keyword.
H.B.M.C. wrote: More notable is the bit about their warriors having bits of Blackstone.
Seems their dynastic trait will be some sort of anti-psyker thing.
Sounds like it, which is unfortunate. That's automatically useless against some armies (or builds) and somewhere between mediocre and must-have (depending on the effect) for the rest.
I find it frustrating that they still haven't worked out that particular kink of their design space.
An army trait that's universal or can be built around is good, something the opponent can just opt to not interact with is terrible.
It's probably ONE of their bonuses. Remember; subfaction traits now contain multiple bonuses so the Szarekhan Dynasty will likely have some form of anti-psyker defense alongside potentially 2 other bonuses.
H.B.M.C. wrote: More notable is the bit about their warriors having bits of Blackstone.
Seems their dynastic trait will be some sort of anti-psyker thing.
Im pretty sure their dynasty trait will be ignore MW in the psychic phase on a natural 6. One of the most useless abilities in the entire game. Szeras may increase this to 5+, when he is within 6".
H.B.M.C. wrote: More notable is the bit about their warriors having bits of Blackstone.
Seems their dynastic trait will be some sort of anti-psyker thing.
Im pretty sure their dynasty trait will be ignore MW in the psychic phase on a natural 6. One of the most useless abilities in the entire game. Szeras may increase this to 5+, when he is within 6".
It might just be ignores mw on a 5+ flat across the board.
IanVanCheese wrote: We're almost certainly getting double dynasty traits, same as every other recent codex so at the worst it would be that, plus something else.
I'm hoping that at some point they'll mention a starter box, if there is one.
They probably haven't said anything about it to keep up the sales of the Indomitus box, so would they unveil it after the indomitus preorder/release?
What would be in the starter box, I assume similar stuff to Indomitus.
Also, theres a picture with the new Overlord (the last picture in the Szarekhan dynasty WHC post), 10 warriors, Scarabs, 2 Skorpekh Destroyers, and the Canoptek Doom Stalker, considering some of the sculpts in the current SC! box for necrons are out of date, that looks like the prime candidate for a new SC! Necrons box
MannyMcCoconut wrote: What do you think about destroyers? Its tough to say without knowing more about the new ones, but they likely wont be monsters so cant shoot in combat and if they fall back now they cant shoot.
With the size of the new Lokhust Destroyers I would say that there's a good chance that they may gain the MONSTER keyword when the nex codex drops.
Spoiler:
Seems more likely they will get the obliterator treatment,
Shaelinith wrote: Assuming the 10 warriors stay at 6PL, it leaves 13 PL for the skorpekh destroyers and the skorpekh lord.
Don't know what to do with that though
Points wise it probably puts the Skorpekh Lord at 125 and the Skorpekh Destroyers at 45 each.
Shaelinith wrote: Assuming the 10 warriors stay at 6PL, it leaves 13 PL for the skorpekh destroyers and the skorpekh lord.
Don't know what to do with that though
Points wise it probably puts the Skorpekh Lord at 125 and the Skorpekh Destroyers at 45 each.
I agree, this is probably what the points values are going to be for each unit.
If you look at the art for the Enter the Darkness article on the WHC main page, it's an expanded piece of art from the one we saw in the Szarekhan article, if you look at the right side the art has the same terrain piece seen in the image with the monolith.
Not sure if it means anything, but it gives me hope for terrain
H.B.M.C. wrote: More notable is the bit about their warriors having bits of Blackstone.
Seems their dynastic trait will be some sort of anti-psyker thing.
Im pretty sure their dynasty trait will be ignore MW in the psychic phase on a natural 6. One of the most useless abilities in the entire game. Szeras may increase this to 5+, when he is within 6".
It could be that the whole army gets the rule they showed for Szeras. It seemed a pretty crap rule on him but something similar army wide would be decent.
That rule is crap no matter how you look at it.
With a reroll you are looking at a 1.4% chance of it doing anything. That is not a rule that is a joke. Having to play on average over 98 games to see a rule do something is not ok.
Pyrothem wrote: That rule is crap no matter how you look at it.
With a reroll you are looking at a 1.4% chance of it doing anything. That is not a rule that is a joke. Having to play on average over 98 games to see a rule do something is not ok.
It's not 98 games, it's 98 triggers for the rule to occur.
I think the rule szeras has would be awful as a trait. Firstly, a good chunk of armies dont even have psykers, amd even less rely on more than a couple. Secondly, necrons are supposedly slower now, so the chances of a unit marching into range are very slim, even with the new rules. The save against wounds/mortal wounds would be better, but unless that is half the dynasty trait there are much better choices
I like it how this week GW revealed the stats for everyone in Pariah apparently from Szeras Unless they are revealing him next week just before they actually release it
Unless they just forgot (very possible) they might be saving the preview for closer to the actual release date because something about his new stats and rules might be a big spoiler for the new Necron rules in general.
Bosskelot wrote: Unless they just forgot (very possible) they might be saving the preview for closer to the actual release date because something about his new stats and rules might be a big spoiler for the new Necron rules in general.
Bosskelot wrote: Unless they just forgot (very possible) they might be saving the preview for closer to the actual release date because something about his new stats and rules might be a big spoiler for the new Necron rules in general.
Aah fair point
Maybe its a hint as to how RP works now
Yeah Crypteks could be changing in how they interact with RP which would obviously effect Szeras.
According to the preview video for this week they are going to be viewing the statlines of Indomitus units this Saturday. Should give us an idea of how things are going be shaking out.
Sasori wrote: According to the preview video for this week they are going to be viewing the statlines of Indomitus units this Saturday. Should give us an idea of how things are going be shaking out.
Sasori wrote: According to the preview video for this week they are going to be viewing the statlines of Indomitus units this Saturday. Should give us an idea of how things are going be shaking out.
Sasori wrote: According to the preview video for this week they are going to be viewing the statlines of Indomitus units this Saturday. Should give us an idea of how things are going be shaking out.
They will still be using the existing codex as a basis however, unless the new codex is shown alongside.but id expect most of the army wide rules to be as they are now on Saturday.
I'm expecting new codex for Necrons and Marines to appear fairly swiftly after/at the same time. The other option is an upgrade book like Chaos got whereby there's a new codex, but its basically the same as the old with a few addendums - whilst a separate upgrade book is released at a cheaper price for those who already have a current codex.
I can't really see them doing an entirely new Codex for Marines less than a year after the current one came out. Besides, it wouldn't be the first time that Marines weren't the first new 'dex for an edition; just look at 6th.
Bosskelot wrote: I can't really see them doing an entirely new Codex for Marines less than a year after the current one came out. Besides, it wouldn't be the first time that Marines weren't the first new 'dex for an edition; just look at 6th.
I'm pretty sure SM are getting a new Codex early in 9th, likely as the second one after Necrons. Stu's made a few comments to that effect on stream and rumours seem to indicate it too. We already know they've worked on the Crusade elements of the SM Codex because they've explicitly been mentioned on stream.
Finally getting to see the statlines of the Indomitus stuff would be great. I wonder if they literally just mean statlines or whether we'll also see the datasheet abilities as well. That would probably be more revealing in telling us the direction they're taking Necrons than just their stats.
Sasori wrote: According to the preview video for this week they are going to be viewing the statlines of Indomitus units this Saturday. Should give us an idea of how things are going be shaking out.
They will still be using the existing codex as a basis however, unless the new codex is shown alongside.but id expect most of the army wide rules to be as they are now on Saturday.
Indomitus comes with a 'minidex' with rules for the units within. I can pretty much guarantee you that they'll sneak in whatever new army-wide rules are coming.
Sasori wrote: According to the preview video for this week they are going to be viewing the statlines of Indomitus units this Saturday. Should give us an idea of how things are going be shaking out.
They will still be using the existing codex as a basis however, unless the new codex is shown alongside.but id expect most of the army wide rules to be as they are now on Saturday.
Indomitus comes with a 'minidex' with rules for the units within. I can pretty much guarantee you that they'll sneak in whatever new army-wide rules are coming.
OK but when the warriors in the mini dex have a different reanimation protocol ruleset to the main codex, how do you expect the codex cryptek to interact with them? Likewise if there's a month delay between it coming out and a new codex, new players might buy the old codex and get confused. If it ends up being hard to purchase then there's some players who can't use the new rules until a codex drops etc.
Causes a lot of problems to have 2 variations of the same rules active at the same time, especially if you don't know how long they'll be relevant for.
Sasori wrote: According to the preview video for this week they are going to be viewing the statlines of Indomitus units this Saturday. Should give us an idea of how things are going be shaking out.
They will still be using the existing codex as a basis however, unless the new codex is shown alongside.but id expect most of the army wide rules to be as they are now on Saturday.
Indomitus comes with a 'minidex' with rules for the units within. I can pretty much guarantee you that they'll sneak in whatever new army-wide rules are coming.
OK but when the warriors in the mini dex have a different reanimation protocol ruleset to the main codex, how do you expect the codex cryptek to interact with them? Likewise if there's a month delay between it coming out and a new codex, new players might buy the old codex and get confused. If it ends up being hard to purchase then there's some players who can't use the new rules until a codex drops etc.
Causes a lot of problems to have 2 variations of the same rules active at the same time, especially if you don't know how long they'll be relevant for.
I don't disagree, but I also don't think GW really cares about that kind of thing. Their thinking seems to be more along the lines of shoving the datasheets in the Indomitus box and calling ti a day. Whether that works with the current rules probably isn't that relevant to them. It's also not impossible for GW to have changed the RP rules and still have them work with the current Cryptek. As long as there's still a dice roll involved (which we know there is because of the Reanimator preview) the Cryptek's rule still works.
First, this has both RP and Living metal. I don't think any other unit does that. We know that RP is changing in some way, but the core of getting guys back is staying.
This indicates a change to Living Metal though, as I don't think the recover one wound a turn makes any sense. The model also has Canoptek.
On the surface, these seem really good. With the new character rules, these just remove the ability to shoot your Crypteks all together while they are in range. They can also pump out a lot of pistol shots and CC attacks for what appears to be a very low cost.
Yeah, the thralls seem pretty good. Those 6 attacks seem nasty.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lord Damocles wrote: I like how random canoptek thralls are apparently so superior to the bodies of the elite Immortals.
Why not just make armies of Thrall constructs?
It would seem that they can only function properly if there's a cryptek nearby. So logistically speaking, making an entire army out of constructs that can only really function if there's another construct close by doesn't really make sense. Immortals don't need crypteks to function properly.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, the thralls seem pretty good. Those 6 attacks seem nasty.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lord Damocles wrote: I like how random canoptek thralls are apparently so superior to the bodies of the elite Immortals.
Why not just make armies of Thrall constructs?
It would seem that they can only function properly if there's a cryptek nearby.
So logistically speaking, making an entire army out of constructs that can only really function if there's another construct close by doesn't really make sense.
Immortals don't need crypteks to function properly.
Not just that, the wording reads to me that you can't bring thralls without a cryptek.
Having Cryptothralls balances out the really sub par and mediocre durability/attack ability of crypteks, makes them less of a liability to keep forward
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, the thralls seem pretty good. Those 6 attacks seem nasty.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lord Damocles wrote: I like how random canoptek thralls are apparently so superior to the bodies of the elite Immortals.
Why not just make armies of Thrall constructs?
It would seem that they can only function properly if there's a cryptek nearby. So logistically speaking, making an entire army out of constructs that can only really function if there's another construct close by doesn't really make sense. Immortals don't need crypteks to function properly.
Not just that, the wording reads to me that you can't bring thralls without a cryptek.
Having Cryptothralls balances out the really sub par and mediocre durability/attack ability of crypteks, makes them less of a liability to keep forward
I think you can take them without a cryptek, they just chew up detachment slots. Spending a slot on 2 model unit that's not actually that powerful without a cryptek isn't really efficient.
Edit : Oh nevermind, I misread it. Yeah, you can only take thralls if you have teks.
Aza'Gorod wrote: Also on a side note "Oh boy another space marine unit that can double tap"
Unless they get stuck in a repulsor I can see the new primaris unit attracting a lot of attention
They are eggshells armed with a hammer, at about 33 points a model, or 11 points per wound. Marines are about to discover why we have a love-hate relationship with our destroyers.
Aza'Gorod wrote: Also on a side note "Oh boy another space marine unit that can double tap"
Unless they get stuck in a repulsor I can see the new primaris unit attracting a lot of attention
They are eggshells armed with a hammer, at about 33 points a model, or 11 points per wound. Marines are about to discover why we have a love-hate relationship with our destroyers.
Haha, I like the comparison there.
I was actually surprised at the reveal. I was under the impression we won't be finding out more till Saturday, unless they are going to release 2 models each day in the build up till Sat?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
torblind wrote: kinda sucks that destroyers max out at 6 models, which means all kinds of hazzles and penalties trigger for them at the moment.
The new edition hurts them a bit. Though considering cryptothralls have Living metal, RP and the canoptek key word that makes me wonder if destroyers have gained living metal or maybe wraiths
Interesting info on the Cryptothralls. Looks like the new datasheets will specifically call out things that are Auras. Also, I wonder if that new Protectors rule is what most Bodyguard rules will eventually change to?
Eh, I tend to field destroyers in groups of 3. 6 feels too unwieldy, and its a big investment for one unit. I prefer the flexibility of having multiple units of destroyers.
Cryptothralls seem great, but I can see that protector rule getting abused. If you hide the thralls you pretty much made your cryptek immortal. There should at least be some damage redirection to prevent cheese.
No question that it is a replacement for Look Out, Sir (specifically the unit of 3+ models within 3"), but does it also Negate the typical Sniper weapon ability to target any character within it's range?
Of course this question is based on our understanding of the current wording on those various Sniper weapons, which may or may not change.
No question that it is a replacement for Look Out, Sir (specifically the unit of 3+ models within 3"), but does it also Negate the typical Sniper weapon ability to target any character within it's range?
Of course this question is based on our understanding of the current wording on those various Sniper weapons, which may or may not change.
From the wording my understanding is yes it negates Snipers ability, but the sniper rule might get modified next edition.
Though let's be honest if it doesn't affect snipers in some way then its kind of a pointless rule
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'd argue Szeras is probably one of our best CC characters if only he had an invulnerable save. He has more attacks then an overlord and is tougher with a fairly reliable damage.
Not saying he is a combat master at all I'm sure the skorpekh Lord will be, but he's quite good for say heroic interventions now to catch out an opponent with 4 3+ str 7 -3 2 damage attacks
Here is a points "leak". As always take with salt. It closely adds up about what I did for my napkin math, but someone else could have just done the same thing.
/Overlord is a regular one so i skip for the jucy bits he got a trachionarrow 120" assault 1 S12 Ap-5 D D6 one use only and Hyperphase Scythe S+2 AP-3 D D3
/Kingsguard: M5" WS3+ BS3+ S5 T5 W4 A3 LD10 SV3+ Reqlic Gaus Blaster 24" Rapidfire2 S5 AP-2 D2 living metal in the movement phase, can select a friendly dynasty unit within 9" that unit can fall back and still shoot & attack
Anihilator: 19" Assault 2d3 S6 Ap-1 D1 Explosive (the new auto hit mechanic vs hordes) "For each wound a unit takes from this weapon, roll a D6. On a 5+, it deals a MW to the unit. Then roll a D6 for each MW done to the unit. On a 5+, another MW is dealt. Continue until either the dice pool is empty, or the unit is destroyed." Claws: S user Ap-1 D1 can do 2 attack rolls instead of 1 for each attack Scythe S+2 AP-4 D3 -1 to hit
living metal friendly destructor cult units within 6" gain reroll 1 on wound rolls 4+ invul he can reroll hit rolls of 1
/Skorpekh destructors M8" WS3+ BS3+ S5 T5 W3 A3 LD10 SV3+ Plasmacyte: M8" WS4+ BS4+ S4 T5 W1 A1 LD10 SV4+ Their Twin CC weapons: Suser AP-3 D2 the user can make 1 additional attack with that weapon Their big CC weapon S+2 AP-4 D3 Plasmacyte: Suser AP-1 D1
reanimation protocolls (see codex necrons) weapon infusion. if a unit has a plasmacite it can roll a d6 at the start of the close combat phase. if a 1 is rolled, 1 destructor gets removed. in any case the whole unit gains +1S and +1A
they all can reroll hit rolls of 1
/Kryptothralls have allready been leaked, skipping those.
/Kanoptech Reanimator M8" WS4+ BS4+ S5 T5 W6 A4 LD10 SV3+ Atomiser (he got those 2x) 12" Assault 3 S6 AP-2 D1 Melee S user AP-2 D1
living metal in your command phase, select a friendly dynasty unit within 9" of this model, add 1 to reanimation protocoll rolls for that unit
/last is necron warriors and scarabs, profiles havent changed, warriors only got that one new weapon that was allready leaked.
Thats it for the book. i will come back in a few hours and post some rule changes. keep at being awesome, love you guys
The extra MW stuff for the gun was not in the original leak so it's likely false.
Really quite underwhelmed by a lot of those stats, especially when compared to anything Primaris. The fact the Skorpekh Lord has the same wounds and less attacks as a Primaris Captain (without buffs!) is just a joke. And the fact it's giant sword is damage D3 also just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
Yeah yeah, it might be cheaper or worth the points, but this is more about rules not really reflecting the nature of a model, either through its design or its lore.
Bosskelot wrote: The extra MW stuff for the gun was not in the original leak so it's likely false.
Really quite underwhelmed by a lot of those stats, especially when compared to anything Primaris. The fact the Skorpekh Lord has the same wounds and less attacks as a Primaris Captain (without buffs!) is just a joke. And the fact it's giant sword is damage D3 also just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
Yeah yeah, it might be cheaper or worth the points, but this is more about rules not really reflecting the nature of a model, either through its design or its lore.
Original leak?
And I think the sword is Damage 3, not d3, but i could have misread
Bosskelot wrote: The extra MW stuff for the gun was not in the original leak so it's likely false.
Really quite underwhelmed by a lot of those stats, especially when compared to anything Primaris. The fact the Skorpekh Lord has the same wounds and less attacks as a Primaris Captain (without buffs!) is just a joke. And the fact it's giant sword is damage D3 also just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
Yeah yeah, it might be cheaper or worth the points, but this is more about rules not really reflecting the nature of a model, either through its design or its lore.
Original leak?
And I think the sword is Damage 3, not d3, but i could have misread
It should definitely be like 8W though
Ah true, I misread it.
But this stuff was all leaked on 4chans /tg/ board and the actual posts don't mention the MW stuff for the emnitic annihilator gun.
Curious observation - the Destroyers on the GW Website are out of stock, but are not listed as sold-out. Interesting because the Monolith, Warriors and such are sold out. Suggests perhaps that GW isn't replacing destroyers, OR that the update for those models is much further along (or that the intern didn't get told)
Bosskelot wrote: The extra MW stuff for the gun was not in the original leak so it's likely false.
Really quite underwhelmed by a lot of those stats, especially when compared to anything Primaris. The fact the Skorpekh Lord has the same wounds and less attacks as a Primaris Captain (without buffs!) is just a joke. And the fact it's giant sword is damage D3 also just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
Yeah yeah, it might be cheaper or worth the points, but this is more about rules not really reflecting the nature of a model, either through its design or its lore.
Original leak?
And I think the sword is Damage 3, not d3, but i could have misread
It should definitely be like 8W though
Ah true, I misread it.
But this stuff was all leaked on 4chans /tg/ board and the actual posts don't mention the MW stuff for the emnitic annihilator gun.
I thought the 4chan stuff was debunked as false weeks ago
Bosskelot wrote: The extra MW stuff for the gun was not in the original leak so it's likely false.
Really quite underwhelmed by a lot of those stats, especially when compared to anything Primaris. The fact the Skorpekh Lord has the same wounds and less attacks as a Primaris Captain (without buffs!) is just a joke. And the fact it's giant sword is damage D3 also just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
Yeah yeah, it might be cheaper or worth the points, but this is more about rules not really reflecting the nature of a model, either through its design or its lore.
Original leak?
And I think the sword is Damage 3, not d3, but i could have misread
It should definitely be like 8W though
Ah true, I misread it.
But this stuff was all leaked on 4chans /tg/ board and the actual posts don't mention the MW stuff for the emnitic annihilator gun.
I thought the 4chan stuff was debunked as false weeks ago
The leak and unit stats we're talking about right now are being posted on 4chan currently by a guy who has the Indomitus box and is posting pictures of stuff in it.
MWBD is 9" and not infantry only, that's very good.
Relentless March is interesting but no more help with charge rolls (i sometimes used it to try an 8" charge after a Veil).
The glaive feels like a sub-warscythe to me, less AP and random damage is not a deal breaker to me.
The damage D3 and still low attacks really suck, but the new aura and MWBD are gigantic improvements. Finally your characters can affect more than just infantry!
Shaelinith wrote: MWBD is 9" and not infantry only, that's very good.
Relentless March is interesting but no more help with charge rolls (i sometimes used it to try an 8" charge after a Veil).
The glaive feels like a sub-warscythe to me, less AP and random damage is not a deal breaker to me.
Overall a meh feeling, love the miniature though.
This is a pretty gigantic improvement. Longer reach on the Aura, Longer reach for MWBD, which affects everything now.
Yeah, it has subpar attacks, but the leaked points values put it at 90 pts.
OK really liking scarabs now.
I know they are weak but if you catch an opponent off guard they will regret it
Edit: I realise you still get your save but I can see them being useful to against against models which are poor in CC just or models with few wounds to knock them out
Surprised that the reanimator is an elite, also not happy its T5, if it had an inv then it wouldn't be too bad but its a big target. Though at PL5 it not the most expensive thing ever
Plasma guy is fairly interesting. Decent weapon, a steady trickle of mortal wounds. Definitely needs his bodyguards.
Skorpekhs... eh. Not sold on the weapon loadout or the plasmacyte. The big weapon is fine- lets them deal with a variety of targets. +1 attack for the 'threshers' is rather bland- not sure that's enough hitting power for the current (or 8th edition) ruleset.
If a real kit comes with the full book, I'd hope for more options, rather than being stuck with a reap-blade and 2 threshers.
The damage output of Skorpekhs looks very tasty, assuming MWBD, Lord re-rolls and Plasmacyte buff. I'll be extra interested in their full wargear options in the full codex/box release because the sheer amount of strength 8 hitting on 2+'s attacks could be very nasty.
Voss wrote: Plasma guy is fairly interesting. Decent weapon, a steady trickle of mortal wounds. Definitely needs his bodyguards.
Skorpekhs... eh. Not sold on the weapon loadout or the plasmacyte. The big weapon is fine- lets them deal with a variety of targets. +1 attack for the 'threshers' is rather bland- not sure that's enough hitting power for the current (or 8th edition) ruleset.
If a real kit comes with the full book, I'd hope for more options, rather than being stuck with a reap-blade and 2 threshers.
The Skorpekhs seem like they can output a huge amount of damage. You're getting 6 attacks with the threshers if you use the plasmacyte. at -3 and Damage 2 that's going to tear through everything, even with an invuln save.
Voss wrote: Plasma guy is fairly interesting. Decent weapon, a steady trickle of mortal wounds. Definitely needs his bodyguards.
Skorpekhs... eh. Not sold on the weapon loadout or the plasmacyte. The big weapon is fine- lets them deal with a variety of targets. +1 attack for the 'threshers' is rather bland- not sure that's enough hitting power for the current (or 8th edition) ruleset.
If a real kit comes with the full book, I'd hope for more options, rather than being stuck with a reap-blade and 2 threshers.
The Skorpekhs seem like they can output a huge amount of damage. You're getting 6 attacks with the threshers if you use the plasmacyte. at -3 and Damage 2 that's going to tear through everything, even with an invuln save.
How are you getting to 6? 3 base, +1 for Thrashers, +1 for tainted energy?
Overread wrote: Curious observation - the Destroyers on the GW Website are out of stock, but are not listed as sold-out. Interesting because the Monolith, Warriors and such are sold out. Suggests perhaps that GW isn't replacing destroyers, OR that the update for those models is much further along (or that the intern didn't get told)
Or maybe they'll just leave them as 'Temporarily out of stock Online' until they're ready to release the Lokhust Destroyer kit. (Note that the Necron Warriors are still listed as 'Temporarily out of stock Online' in the US web store).
Shaelinith wrote: MWBD is 9" and not infantry only, that's very good.
I'd hold off on the celebrations until we see the codex, since the Indomitus box has no Necron vehicles it could be an omission to prevent confusion (and doing just the opposite for veteran players).
Voss wrote: Plasma guy is fairly interesting. Decent weapon, a steady trickle of mortal wounds. Definitely needs his bodyguards.
Skorpekhs... eh. Not sold on the weapon loadout or the plasmacyte. The big weapon is fine- lets them deal with a variety of targets. +1 attack for the 'threshers' is rather bland- not sure that's enough hitting power for the current (or 8th edition) ruleset.
If a real kit comes with the full book, I'd hope for more options, rather than being stuck with a reap-blade and 2 threshers.
The Skorpekhs seem like they can output a huge amount of damage. You're getting 6 attacks with the threshers if you use the plasmacyte. at -3 and Damage 2 that's going to tear through everything, even with an invuln save.
5 attacks with the plasmacyte (3 base+1 weapon+1plasmacyte), The plasmacyte strength buff doesn't matter much against most targets (you'll still wound on 3s unless they were t5, and the amount of t6 and t10 stuff is very low)
Its just... for anti-horde duty they're not a great choice, they just don't have enough attacks. For anti primaris duty, I guess they're fine, but +1A over the reap blades is just OK. For anti-vehicle they just aren't enough. The strength buff and d3 will take you further than the bonus attack and less everything else.
I like that they're in the elite slot though.
----
Lord is nice, actually. Mini anti-horde gun, and anti-horde claw (8 attacks against chaff, basically). Only baffling thing is his main weapon is Identical to the reap-blade except the -1 to hit. That really bugs me. Why is +1 S and A on the lord's profile the dividing line when the unit has a way to get +1 S and A????
Voss wrote: Plasma guy is fairly interesting. Decent weapon, a steady trickle of mortal wounds. Definitely needs his bodyguards.
Skorpekhs... eh. Not sold on the weapon loadout or the plasmacyte. The big weapon is fine- lets them deal with a variety of targets. +1 attack for the 'threshers' is rather bland- not sure that's enough hitting power for the current (or 8th edition) ruleset.
If a real kit comes with the full book, I'd hope for more options, rather than being stuck with a reap-blade and 2 threshers.
The Skorpekhs seem like they can output a huge amount of damage. You're getting 6 attacks with the threshers if you use the plasmacyte. at -3 and Damage 2 that's going to tear through everything, even with an invuln save.
5 attacks with the plasmacyte (3 base+1 weapon+1plasmacyte), The plasmacyte strength buff doesn't matter much against most targets (you'll still wound on 3s unless they were t5, and the amount of t6 and t10 stuff is very low)
Its just... for anti-horde duty they're not a great choice, they just don't have enough attacks. For anti primaris duty, I guess they're fine, but +1A over the reap blades is just OK. For anti-vehicle they just aren't enough. The strength buff and d3 will take you further than the bonus attack and less everything else..
They can get 14 rerolling 1s to hit with at least str 6 so they aren't bad at cutting through hordes (or primaris for that matter) im hoping for an advance and charge stratagem though as M8 isn't huge but the overlord does help
Voss wrote: Plasma guy is fairly interesting. Decent weapon, a steady trickle of mortal wounds. Definitely needs his bodyguards.
Skorpekhs... eh. Not sold on the weapon loadout or the plasmacyte. The big weapon is fine- lets them deal with a variety of targets. +1 attack for the 'threshers' is rather bland- not sure that's enough hitting power for the current (or 8th edition) ruleset.
If a real kit comes with the full book, I'd hope for more options, rather than being stuck with a reap-blade and 2 threshers.
The Skorpekhs seem like they can output a huge amount of damage. You're getting 6 attacks with the threshers if you use the plasmacyte. at -3 and Damage 2 that's going to tear through everything, even with an invuln save.
5 attacks with the plasmacyte (3 base+1 weapon+1plasmacyte), The plasmacyte strength buff doesn't matter much against most targets (you'll still wound on 3s unless they were t5, and the amount of t6 and t10 stuff is very low)
Its just... for anti-horde duty they're not a great choice, they just don't have enough attacks. For anti primaris duty, I guess they're fine, but +1A over the reap blades is just OK. For anti-vehicle they just aren't enough. The strength buff and d3 will take you further than the bonus attack and less everything else..
Yeah, I corrected my mistake.
I don't see how they are anti-horde. They will carve through most everything except T8 Units with relative ease.
Edit: Ignore me sorry my phone screen wasn't playing ball and showing the picture properly
1 thing I will say itd annoying to see we still suffer from the fact none of our units seem to be allowed a 2+ Save. Maybe we would be if our living metal was made out of adamantium and ceramite
