Personally, what I'd like to see (and something that will feature in my Extended codex), is an expansion on the Repentia - Sisters who are fighting for their own redemption, stripped of power armour and fighting with righteous zeal.

Being able to field an entire army of the damned appeals to me.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Howdy, new to the forum. Been playing Sisters since they first came out but haven't played in a long while. (Never played 4th or 5th and just now getting into 6th.) Read the entire thread here. Lots of good advice and interesting strategies. Also, find I must change my army for 6th ed. I have the "update." Can't really call it a codex. Did Repentia always suck or am I looking at memories through rose tinted glasses? Anyways, lots of Necron in my neck of the woods. Wraiths and flyers giving me trouble. Got the Aegis but still...
I think they're an interesting army to play but not an easy one.
Just wanted to say, thanks for all the information, opinions and advice here. Good stuff.

Welcome, welcome!

Unsure what they were like in 2nd or 3rd, but at least in 5th and 6th Repentia have been a relatively niche unit that relies on too many stars aligning to really shine. In 5th you could get them into a rhino and eventually assault from that rhino, in 6th they just kinda run across the table into overwatch with their fingers crossed. So..... probably some rose-colored glasses

Against wraith's, I've found Exorcists (S8 vs T4 = instant death for each failed save), large flamer Dominion squads (include a meltagun and/or combi-plasma for that pesky Destroyer Lord) and Seraphim worth their weight in gold... they can put out a TON of wounds and force enough failed 3++ saves to whittle the unit down before they charge. Against fliers.... Retributors with heavy bolters are probably the only option to shave off some hull points, so I highly recommend allies of some sort to grab a flier of your own. Rets and an Aegis line are good, but Rets, an Aegis line, and a Vendetta are great.

Sisters don't need buddies in the Custodes or GK or whatever. They can use the Ecclesiarchy and the Sisters, as they did originally.

edit: Okay, that sounded dismissive. I meant that there is more than enough material in the Ecclesiarchy and the existing Sisters, with a little creativity for new units, etc to make a force without having to rely on allies.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Howdy, new to the forum. Been playing Sisters since they first came out but haven't played in a long while. (Never played 4th or 5th and just now getting into 6th.) Read the entire thread here. Lots of good advice and interesting strategies. Also, find I must change my army for 6th ed. I have the "update." Can't really call it a codex. Did Repentia always suck or am I looking at memories through rose tinted glasses? Anyways, lots of Necron in my neck of the woods. Wraiths and flyers giving me trouble. Got the Aegis but still...
I think they're an interesting army to play but not an easy one.
Just wanted to say, thanks for all the information, opinions and advice here. Good stuff.

You read the entire thing? It's 90 pages from 2 different editions. That's impressive as ball. Welcome aboard. I've found Seraphim to be a good answer to wraiths, just shoot them a bunch and hope you get lucky. Exorcists can be good too. S8. Repentia got better in the update. If you're looking for a flier don't neglect the Avenger strike fighter.

I was toying with the idea of adding Custodes but it seemed like they'd just end up looking like grey knights. I thought adding Enforcers to the Battle conclave would be a good idea to get those arbites in there but, as someone else suggested, I needed to give them a better range of weapons to show them off. I think I'll hit that in round two of the edits.

All 90 pages. I've been lurking for a while.

Im not sure if this has been posted already, but i just stumbled across a new data sheet for the repressor on the forgeworld website:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/r/RepressorFAQversion1P.pdf

Quite a bit of change there..... front armour 13??

It was posted yes. It's nice but he points increase is pretty hefty though.

Oops sorry for the repeat post.

Seems like it might make the heavy flamer retributor squad more useable but even more expensive

Totally worth the new cost though, there is something about AV13 dedicated transport that changes the game.

Totally worth the new cost though, there is something about AV13 dedicated transport that changes the game.

Maybe...People stil bring the gear hanele av13+, but a saturation of av13 can cause problems (See BA AV13 Wall lists), trouble is Sisters aren't fast so it's not difficult for your opponent to get your side/rear.

Gonna have my first game of 6th with my Sisters next week, wish me luck.

D

Thaks ofr the info re the Repressor - very interesting now its a least a different thing to the Rhino and now gives me another option for my Dminions if I want a larger squad - plus fire points .

"Fire" points.

Heh.

Anyone know of good non-gw seraphim style models I. Could use? The local GW store just keeps getting worse to the point I'm trying to never buy from them again, frankly.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Did Repentia always suck or am I looking at memories through rose tinted glasses?

Depends when you played - Repentia were at their best after the WD codex but before 6th dropped. Throw them in another transport, fleet out and krump something, then fleet to whatever is next closest to krump them. They are not awful in 6th, but you need to run them behind Seraphim or vehicles, overwatch really limits their potential for second and third charges, and any kind of artillery ruins their day. The FnP nerf doesn't help at all, either. For awhile there finesse could make them great, nowadays it takes finesse to make them useful. I can still make use of them, but the reward isn't great enough that I recommend everybody else take the time to learn to use them well.

-D

So to carry on from a conversation I had earlier today, I got a chance to play against the new Eldar today with my Sisters.

It was a 2k game, and the rough makeup of the Eldar army was:

Arsumen
Eldrad
2x Dire Avengers
Wraithguard
Big squad of Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent
2 squadrons of Vypers
Wraithguard
Warlocks
2 Crimson Hunters

I pulled a 5-1 victory (First Blood, Linebreaker, Warlord and 2 objectives to his Warlord kill...my Celestine never gets up ;p ) and here are my thoughts on how the new Eldar play.

Eldrad is a buffing machine. He can make a squad he runs with very killy and very, very hard to kill. Definitely prioritize getting rid of him, or limiting the amount of buffs he can throw out.

As I predicted, the quasi-Rending on all of the shuriken weapons is what proved to be the hardest thing to handle. Not so much on the Dire Avengers, but the Starcannon/Shruiken cannon Vypers. Those things ripped my Rhinos apart in very short order, and they can be very hard to get rid of with the upgrade that buffs their cover save.

Wraithguard and Warlocks were no issue to me. My opponent gambled on the Wraithguard's toughness to save him in turn 1. Exorcists mulch Wraithguard in a big hurry, and heavy bolter Rets cleaned up his Warlocks right after that. I'd not write them off entirely either, because my opponent used those units real poorly imo.

I thought the Crimson Hunters were going to be a pain, and they were. They can kick out a lot of lance shots, and the Sisters army has little in the way to deal with them. However, as a veteran of Dark Eldar, I know that Lances are very middle of the road options that don't quite excel the same way against armor. They are irritating, but nothing breaking. That said, be careful of Crimson Hunter Exarchs, that precision fire on their big guns can make things dangerous. Also, side note, gold star to Hero Melta girl, who blew that exarch out of the sky.

Discussing it after the battle with my opponent, he said he thought about a Wraithknight, but added that Sisters are one of the few armies that will regularly have tools to deal with them (Exorcists and heavy bolter Rets) without much trouble.

I use repentia as a counter assault unit to hold a line. It's useful. I think the new AV13 wall would be pretty cool actually.

OK. So, I have been playing Sisters of Battle now for about 6 months and have gotten familiar with how they work. I have found them to be a fairly effective army to use. However, on another thread about someone asking how to handle Celestine with Necrons, someone made a comment about how "you're going against sisters... is this joke?" This got me to thinking, what is the general consensus on how well the SOB codex holds up against the rest of the GW spectrum. I thought that Sisters can make (pretty much one) competitive list. What is the thoughts of the people reading this thread (and I know it may be slightly biased)?

I know I cannot be the only one this has happened to. I show up at a tournament and start pulling my girls out. Someone comes up and says "Wow, you're playing Sisters. That is so cool. I have so much respect for you running that army." And, while this may sound like a compliment at face value, it cannot help but make me feel like I should have a helmet on while playing and be sure to have my permission slip signed before I get on the 40K short bus.

Against any but the top-tier cheese lists I usually have a fighting chance with my pure sisters.

For instance the WD Daemons Update was quite hard to do anything against. Having Fateweaver and lots of flamers/screamers with re-rollable saves and multipile wounds.

Necron flyer spam was quite tough (since we have no AA except 1 quad-gun)

Mix in allies (usually IG) and the picture becomes different, but I usually felt I'd be better off switching to the Allies completely.

The only allies I usually use are grey knight henchmen squads with cotaez. Gives the feel of the old inquisitikn stormtroopers

 Green is Best! wrote:

I know I cannot be the only one this has happened to. I show up at a tournament and start pulling my girls out. Someone comes up and says "Wow, you're playing Sisters. That is so cool. I have so much respect for you running that army." And, while this may sound like a compliment at face value, it cannot help but make me feel like I should have a helmet on while playing and be sure to have my permission slip signed before I get on the 40K short bus.

That really depends on your environment.

The more competitive it is, the lower the sisters will preform.

At a casual-ish environment, sisters is a fine army, heck its even a good army. but at a WAAC environment, they just lack the tools to match up to flying bakeries and the such.

It the same as old tau, the codex itself was falling apart, but COULD be milled to get an extra kick that would put it on the same scale of casual lists from other codices, by doing the same things that would make a tier 1 codex be overpowering and annoying to fight against, spamming the few best units.

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK. So, I have been playing Sisters of Battle now for about 6 months and have gotten familiar with how they work. I have found them to be a fairly effective army to use. However, on another thread about someone asking how to handle Celestine with Necrons, someone made a comment about how "you're going against sisters... is this joke?" This got me to thinking, what is the general consensus on how well the SOB codex holds up against the rest of the GW spectrum. I thought that Sisters can make (pretty much one) competitive list. What is the thoughts of the people reading this thread (and I know it may be slightly biased)?

I know I cannot be the only one this has happened to. I show up at a tournament and start pulling my girls out. Someone comes up and says "Wow, you're playing Sisters. That is so cool. I have so much respect for you running that army." And, while this may sound like a compliment at face value, it cannot help but make me feel like I should have a helmet on while playing and be sure to have my permission slip signed before I get on the 40K short bus.

lol ^^^

The one compettitive list is still okay, but yes, it requires abusing what other armies would become cheese by abusing, and any other list barring very minor changes is resoundingly bottom-tier.

Things such as repentia who can't stand up to overwatch fire at all, and paying a premium for a 6+ invuln on almost every model where it simply being a cheap barebones 3+ armour T3 with a bolter would be far more effective are a big pain.

A codex coming with plastic and reasonably priced models would allow the army to be sensible as the model cost in cash would be less prohibitive and allow better units.

So I'm curious. What is this 'one competitive list'. I know what I like, but I also haven't frequented the tourney scene yet.

It's usually a variant of:
Celestine

2-4 Sisters Squads (sometimes in Rhinos)

3 Dominion Squads in an Immolator
and/or Seraphim Squads

3 Exorcists and/or Retributors

That list isnt "the" competitive build, Its practically the only possible build due to the lack of choice in certain areas of the army, especially troops.

If you want to be able to perform in tournaments/competitive games where objectives are then you have to take the troops/FA/HS choices mentioned. The expense of the troops choices mean that there is little left over to spend in the elite section of the army, and as it can never score, adds kill points to the list and is generally accepted as woeful in general (although i regularly use a small unit of repentia as a counter attack unit with some effect).

Ok, thats about what I figured. The elite troops always seemed to me a waste of points for what you get.

When I build a list I find myself wishing I had more fast slots, then heavy. Glad to see i'm not totally lost.

I just wish I could use repentia or penitent engines without expecting them to get wiped without any contribution. That, and why aren't inq. henchmen squads troops in a sisters army..?.. It'll be interesting if they ever do a rewrite of the book i guess.

I find repentia work quite nicely as a small unit that sits in your own deployment zone and hide. They are great at nipping out of cover and smacking something stupid enough to land in there charge range. They are nasty, especially against vehicles or deepstriking stuff

 scrunty wrote:
I find repentia work quite nicely as a small unit that sits in your own deployment zone and hide. They are great at nipping out of cover and smacking something stupid enough to land in there charge range. They are nasty, especially against vehicles or deepstriking stuff

Hmmmm..... I may have to try this. I have been trying to find a use for anything out of the Elites section of this codex.

Since I run a lot of Seraphim, I tend to use Celestians as my Immolator-mounted troops. And I'm liking what they can do. Essentially in my force, they are troubleshooters, bringing enough melta shots (twin linked MM on the immolator and 2 in the squad) to make anything have a bad day and in a dire pinch, they can work in melee. Note, I would never make a batlteplan around them getting into melee, but if something needs to be locked up or finished off, Celestians have the armor and attacks to fend off minor stuff. Plus if you can get Fearless off on them, they can tie stuff down.

Ok, so rewriting that:
I intend to try one (or both) of these lists out - A Repentia Heavy list.
Saint Celestine 115
1x5 Seraphim w/ 1 Pair of Hand Flamers, Superior w/ Eviscerator 125
3x9 Repentia 474
2x10 BSS w/ Heavy Bolter 260
3x2 Penitent Engine 510
1484

Saint Celestine 115
1x5 Seraphim w/ 1 Pair of Hand Flamers, Superior w/ Eviscerator 125
3x9 Repentia 474
4x10 BSS w/ Heavy Bolter 520
3x3 Penitent Engine 765
1999

 Ovion wrote:
Ok, so rewriting that:
I intend to try one (or both) of these lists out - A Repentia Heavy list.
Saint Celestine 115
1x5 Seraphim w/ 1 Pair of Hand Flamers, Superior w/ Eviscerator 125
3x9 Repentia 474
2x10 BSS w/ Heavy Bolter 260
3x2 Penitent Engine 510
1484

Saint Celestine 115
1x5 Seraphim w/ 1 Pair of Hand Flamers, Superior w/ Eviscerator 125
3x9 Repentia 474
4x10 BSS w/ Heavy Bolter 520
3x3 Penitent Engine 765
1999

I was actually toying around with something similar. I would be curious to see how this list panned out in actual game play. As much as I would like it to work, I think it would struggle.

If Repentia were cheaper I'd love to take them, but they're way too expensive for how fragile they are.

Well as soon as I can get a game or three in vassal with them, I'll let you know how it goes.
Maybe even try my hand at a battle report!

What allies have people tried with SoB? Obviously IG offers the only BB option, but has anyone had any luck or success with other armies?

Ill be honest, Ig are SUCH a perfect choice for Sistrs that I really HAVENT tried other allies. That is great question actually.

 Jancoran wrote:
Ill be honest, Ig are SUCH a perfect choice for Sistrs that I really HAVENT tried other allies. That is great question actually.

I've been giving consideration to some flavor of Dark Angels, probably Ravenwing to provide mobility, AP2 and outflanking units to support Dominions.

Well, Sisters can Ally with the following (including Forgeworld lists):
Battle Brothers:
Armoured Battle Group
Death Korps Armoured Battle Group
Death Korps Siege Regiment
Elysian Drop Troops
Imperial Guard

Allies of Convenience:
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Grey Knights
Space Marines
Space Marine Siege Assault Force
Space Wolves

Black Templars
Dark Eldar
Eldar
Eldar Corsairs
Necrons
Tau Empire

Personally - I'll be starting my Sisters as an allied force to my Dark Eldar, not entirely sure what it'll bring other than 'hey look - cool slaves' though.

I use GK just so I can take inquisitorial henchmen

 pretre wrote:

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:They wouldn't be a starting army I've been playing daemonhunters since 3rd, this was for my possible second army

Well, since you were a DH player for so long, we know you are already a masochist. Feel free to jump right in then!

BAHAHAHA AAAAAAMEN!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If the Penitent Engines were Elites, I'd definitely run them more, but if the choice of them or Exorcists, the choice doesn't become that hard

There was speculation based on the order of the entries in the first WD that they were but alas...

I have been tinkering with a few allies, mainly IG (duh) and GK for fluff reasons.

With IG, I usually take a Penal Legion squad as one of my troops. I put them right on the edge of the deployment zone and stick St. Celestine with them. This is simply to take advantage of their scout move. (Note, I usually run triple dominions and no seraphim. I have the seraphim models, but they need to be painted and put on bases first. That is the only reason I do not use them). Depending on the points level, I may also add an infantry platoon, but usually not.

I had originally taken IG to gain access to LRBT, but I have found their low BS skill to be infuriating. Anymore, I lean towards 2 basilisks or other heavy artillery and park them in the back with my exorcists and one or two battle sister squads.

As for my HQ, I take the primaris psyker, a 10 strong psychic battle squad, and a chimera. There is all sorts of tomfoolery you can do with Dominate / Terrify / Psychic Shriek combined with Weaken Resolve.

With GK, I lean towards the Inquisitor route instead of terminators and paladins. I play a lot of DA and I love having the servo skulls on the board to deny scout movement to those bikes.

Just keep in mind Celestine can't assault unless you go second.

 pretre wrote:
Just keep in mind Celestine can't assault unless you go second.

I know. But it is still useful for getting her in close to at least use her flamer.

I never said it was the best strategy, but it does come in handy from time to time. Plus, it helps here keep up with the Dominion squads that are usually scouting as well.

So, had my first game of 6th with my Sisters of Battle last night. A good game but was quite surprised to pull a win out of the bag. It wss 1500pts, purge the alien, hammer and anvil set up agaibstvSM who went first.

I was running:

St Celestine
Battle Sister Squad - melta,melta, combi melta. DT: Rhino
Battle Sister Squad - flamer, flamer, combi flamer. DT: Rhino
Battle Sister Squad - flamer, flamer, combi flamer. DT: Immolator with HB (DT and unit deployed separately)

Seraphim Squad (10) - 2x dual flamer
Seraphim Squad (10)- 2x dual flamer

Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors (10) - 4x heavy bolters

When i wrote my list I was pretty impressed by how much you can fit into a 1500 pt list,; 61 bodies and a handful of vecicles seemed like quite alot for an opponent to deal with. Then we started the game and i remembered how fragile T3 is. From this game I fear I'll really struggle against the newer codexes with lots of access to ap3 or better weaponry...

It almost goes without saying the the Rets and Exorcists carried me throughout the game, the BSS achieved very little on their own but keeping units together and having them support each other will really help I reckon.r I think there's a decent roll for using rhinos as line of sight blocks to mitigate the damage on the girls.
H
I made the mistake of DSing my Seraphim squads, one arrving T3 and Celestine and her Squad arriving T4; s they were a bit late to the party and did very little (although I can see their act of faith has alot of potential to be great when it comes off as planned). How does everyone else tend to run them? I'm thinking creeping them behind the rhinos and jumping over to land a good round of shooting is probably a be a better bet than DSing them into the thick of it and risking the scatter (I'm obviosly too used to playing BA and find scatterung more than D6 unacceptable).

Overall I enjoyed playing them again and am excited about getting them on the table again soon.

D

 curran12 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Ill be honest, Ig are SUCH a perfect choice for Sistrs that I really HAVENT tried other allies. That is great question actually.

I've been giving consideration to some flavor of Dark Angels, probably Ravenwing to provide mobility, AP2 and outflanking units to support Dominions.

Anyone who knows me, knows i dig tyhe outflank. A bike unit to protect the Dominion from imminent charge? EXCELLENT! Hmm... May have to think about that idea...

I support that idea, I play DA successors, and giving my girls some back up in the form of bikers and some termies isn't a terrible idea.

Whenever I use Pentinent engines or Repentia I run them both together, 3 PE and 1 full squad of Repentia. Had a blast with them one game, they won me the match, another game.....they died turn early and easily.

Two questions I want to throw out there.

Never though about using Allies but after putting money towards the recent Raging heroes kickstater I figured these would be perfect for some IG allies. Now I have no idea about how IG works so what would be the goto units for some allies for SoB.

Also I recently though about upgrading my Aegis w/Quadgun to a Bastion w/Quadgun. It's only 25 points more and I don't lose much functionality of the Aegis but I do gain a much better firing position. Anyone had experience with Bastion and how well it works with Sisters?

 Green is Best! wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
Ok, so rewriting that:
I intend to try one (or both) of these lists out - A Repentia Heavy list.
Saint Celestine 115
1x5 Seraphim w/ 1 Pair of Hand Flamers, Superior w/ Eviscerator 125
3x9 Repentia 474
2x10 BSS w/ Heavy Bolter 260
3x2 Penitent Engine 510
1484

Saint Celestine 115
1x5 Seraphim w/ 1 Pair of Hand Flamers, Superior w/ Eviscerator 125
3x9 Repentia 474
4x10 BSS w/ Heavy Bolter 520
3x3 Penitent Engine 765
1999

I was actually toying around with something similar. I would be curious to see how this list panned out in actual game play. As much as I would like it to work, I think it would struggle.

I play a Repentia/Penitent Engine heavy list - it has it's up and downs I wouldn't dream of taking it to a tourney in this edition - flyers eat it up, and there's just too much Anti-infantry fire these days. I'm just flat afraid of meeting the new Tau, really. I foresee nothing good coming of it.

Here are my comments on this kind of list:

-If you are advancing Repentia up the field, you need to hide them behind something. I run two up behind a Seraphim unit led by Celestine, and a third either runs behind an Immolator or stays back to smash deep strikers and flankers. if you keep their screen alive long enough to reach an enemy, they will delete the first unit you hit... overwatch, striking last and all the rest be damned. But hit the right one, because overwatch and 5+ FnP now means you cannot expect enough to survive for an effective second assault, much less the three assaults I used to get out of the girls. If their screen falls, they die. Best bet is to run them into the nearest cover and sulk around hoping an enemy advance get's close enough for them to pounce. Fleet can be really awesome on these ladies.

-Penitent Engines can fall fast if you are not scaring the enemy with other things. I run Rets and an Exorcist instead of 2 more units of PE, because I find their ability to kill the biggest threat to the one squad is more useful than having two more squads who die to said threat. On the other hand, with the drop in AT out there, I am considering bringing more PE back... shuffling the glanced one's to the back of the squadron can help them stay alive - oddly, I find them more survivable than last edition, where they often died outright to glances. Their flamers often kill more than their assault (what's left to assault?), but that's fine by me. If they make a long charge, you cheer and dance.

-Find points for Kyrinov. A lot of the time what works when everything else has gone to pot, is that there are two fearless units of BSS on objectives that no one thought to shoot at because they had a huge mess of enraged doom stampeding towards them. By the time they think to focus on killing troops, they can't do it fast enough to budge a couple of fearless power armor girls.

-Flyers ruin your day. Finding points for a quad gun helps. A little.

- Celestine and Seraphim eat a lot of bullets until she dies, and they do terrible things if they make it. Especially with Repentia on their heels.

-Target saturation is key. Play at 2k, and try to mix more in. 4 BSS squads have never really done much for me, but a Dom Immolator, quad gun, and more Seraphim have helped the game go my way plenty of times. Two fearless BSS can handle your backfield, and a third can push forward if you need a last objective. The fourth isn't much of a threat, and you need to lay on threats to split up fire... I dropped the third unit too after some testing, but to each their own.



If you are playing a high point for fun game, ignore all that and run 3 Seraphim squads screening 3 Repentia squads and 3 full PE squads, and just grin the whole time. Even if they put down a few flyers and delete the whole mess with you unable to do a thing back... keep grinning. It will spook the enemy, and you will win a higher form of victory in the eyes of all. (Also when it works, it is a genuine terror on the field).

Here is my current list for an 1850 tournament. Thoughts?

HQ:
Saint Celestine [Warlord]
Uriah Jacobus

Troops:
15x Battle Sisters (Flamer, Melta, Melta Bomb)
15x Battle Sisters (Flamer, Melta, Melta Bomb)
15x Battle Sisters (Flamer, Melta, Melta Bomb)

Fast Attack:
5x Dominion (2x Melta, Melta Bomb)
+ Immolator (TL MM)
5x Dominion (2x Melta, Melta Bomb)
+ Immolator (TL MM)
10x Seraphim (2x 2 Hand Flamers, Power Maul, Melta Bomb)

Heavy Support:
5x Retributor (4x Heavy Bolter, Simulacrum)
5x Retributor (4x Heavy Bolter, Simulacrum)
Exorcist

Fortification:
Imperial Bastion (Quad Gun)

The imperial bastion provides a central firing point for the retributors to sit in. While that makes them vulnerable to heavy high str anti-tank weapon, a lot of lists aren't bringing as many as they used to and there are still a good number of people who are surprised at how much damage a few rending heavy bolter squads can do. Its one draw back is that it's stationary so can be avoided in certain deployment types.

Although slow, blocks of 15+ models in power armor are tough to move; especially when one of the has FNP courteous of Uriah.

The exorcist ruins riptides and wraithknights (and other high value targets) but can importantly draw fire away from the bastion as a perceived "bigger" threat.

10 battle sisters with a Rhino/Repressor is just better than 15 without, imo. I know you like the blobs, but your scoring needs to be able to get somewhere.

The only deployment type that becomes a problem in is Hammer & Anvil, but then the outflanking ability of the dominions and the higher mobility of the seraphims play a bigger role.

I also am not a fan of bare bones Ret squads. The way they are set up in your list, any casualties will really hamper the squad's firepower. I prefer to run a squad of 10 with 4 heavy bolters, simulacrum and a storm bolter on the superior, you get more rending shots and some wounds to soak up fire and damage.

jmswargaming wrote:
The only deployment type that becomes a problem in is Hammer & Anvil, but then the outflanking ability of the dominions and the higher mobility of the seraphims play a bigger role.

I disagree. Opponents don't tend to leave their objectives in easy to reach places. Either way, up to you.

jmswargaming wrote:

Heavy Support:
5x Retributor (4x Heavy Bolter, Simulacrum)
5x Retributor (4x Heavy Bolter, Simulacrum)
Exorcist

Didn't the FAQ rule that you cannot put a Simulacrum or Banner on a model with a heavy weapon, or am I remembering incorrectly? You may need to find the points for an extra Retributor to rock the Simulacrum.

Q: If a model in a Sororitas Command Squad is equipped with a
simulacrum imperialis or blessed banner, can they also be equipped with
a special or heavy weapon? (p85)
A: No.

I think it's safe to assume that the ruling applies to all squads not just the SCS.

I second the motion of putting extra bodies in the Ret squads, finding the points from cutting back troops and finding them transports. Normal bolters with rending are so much better tban normalbolters, and extra Rets means they can man the HBs on the Bastion.

D

So I think I am going to try out an allied force of Ravenwing to bulk out my Sisters. I'm thinking of something small to begin with, 1000 points or so of Ravenwing. Given the rules for allies, I can't simply bring Sammael to make the Ravenwing Troops, but this actually may serve my purposes better.

I'm thinking a Company Master on a bike and a full Black Knight command squad. Outfit the Master with at least an auspex so that the Black Knights can outflank with Dominons. The Doms blow up a transport if available, and the Black Knights rip up what's inside with plasma talons. Since the Commander bike cannot take a plasma talon, I throw him an auspex so that the other talons in the bike squad have less cover to worry about against the S7 AP2.

I haven't pointed out everything yet, but I think that squad, another of Black Knights would support my Doms or Seraphim nicely. The issue I am running into is a Troops selection. Should I go simple with a Tac squad? Cheap with bare bones scouts?

 curran12 wrote:
So I think I am going to try out an allied force of Ravenwing to bulk out my Sisters. I'm thinking of something small to begin with, 1000 points or so of Ravenwing. Given the rules for allies, I can't simply bring Sammael to make the Ravenwing Troops, but this actually may serve my purposes better.

I'm thinking a Company Master on a bike and a full Black Knight command squad. Outfit the Master with at least an auspex so that the Black Knights can outflank with Dominons. The Doms blow up a transport if available, and the Black Knights rip up what's inside with plasma talons. Since the Commander bike cannot take a plasma talon, I throw him an auspex so that the other talons in the bike squad have less cover to worry about against the S7 AP2.

I haven't pointed out everything yet, but I think that squad, another of Black Knights would support my Doms or Seraphim nicely. The issue I am running into is a Troops selection. Should I go simple with a Tac squad? Cheap with bare bones scouts?

That actually sounds really promising.I'd lean more towards Scouts. Sit them in cover with cloaks and ty to get precision shots on threatening special weapons. You should point up a full list and let us know what you come up with.

D

 curran12 wrote:
I also am not a fan of bare bones Ret squads. The way they are set up in your list, any casualties will really hamper the squad's firepower. I prefer to run a squad of 10 with 4 heavy bolters, simulacrum and a storm bolter on the superior, you get more rending shots and some wounds to soak up fire and damage.

The 20 points for the simulcrum is a must buy for me and my Rets. Apparently, my faith in the Emperor is not very strong so they need all the help they can get making that Act of Faith go off.

Seriously, my consistent poor rolling for them is the reason I switched to a pair of Exorcists and am seriously considering buying a third, or a pair of penitent engines for that coveted third heavy slot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hello fellow Sisters players. I just played a 1250 tournament this weekend and overall, had pretty favorable results. Tabled Dark Eldar and Chaos. Minor victory against Tau Riptides, Minor loss to Tau with a shadowsun bomb. There is an 1850 tournament coming up in a week (no forgeworld allowed, so repressors and avengers are out). I was pretty happy with the core list, but I am conflicted over what to add to get to 1850.

1250:
St. Celestine

Battle Sister Squad (Multi-melta, Flamer)
Battle Sister Squad (Flamer, Flamer)
Battle Sister Squad (Flamer)

Dominion (Stormbolter, 2 meltaguns, Immolator w/ TL MM and searchlight)
Dominion (Plasma Pistol & Chainsword, 2 meltaguns, Immolator w/ TL MM and searchlight)

Exorcist
Exorcist

Aegis Defense Line w/ TL Quad gun

Pretty straight forwards sisters list. BSS camp with Exorcists behind ADL while Dominions and St. C do most of the heavy lifting.

Now, this is what I have available to add:
Uriah
4 Heavy Bolter Girls
3 Simulcrums
Numerous bodies with bolters
Twin Plasma Sister Superiors
Plasma Chainsword Sister Superiors
25 repentia
6 DCAs with swords and axes
4 Crusaders
2 Immolators w/ TL MM or used as rhinos
Canoness with bolt pistol and chainsword (yeah, like she will ever see the light of day)
9 Seraphim (Superior w/ plasma and powersword, 2 hand flamer models, rest are regular)

I have yet to use Repentia or a battle conclave yet and don't have much time to playtest. As always, the biggest issue is how to deliver this unit into assault? I would say leave them in the backfield as a counter charge unit, but for the most part, that has yet to be a problem.

So, as I see it I can add 2 of the 3 below:
Seraphim
Dominion Squad in an immolator
Ret squad with heavy bolters, simulcrum, and stormbolter.
Battle Conclave (4 crusaders, 6 DCAs)

I am a big fan of the scouting dominion squads as they just catch people napping. I know there is a lot of love for seraphim, but I have only used them once or twice. Same goes for the conclave. Any thoughts on which units I should add? If I had the model, I would just add another exorcist in lieu of the Retributors (see previous post. My sisters lack faith in the emperor)

Thanks in advance for your help.

How about a Seraphim squad with 2x duel flamer and a 10 Sister Ret Squad with 4xHB. You could probably fit in another BSS and transports for the existing units too. 600 pts can bring a fair bit to the table, if you've got the models (which is always my problem).

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
How about a Seraphim squad with 2x duel flamer and a 10 Sister Ret Squad with 4xHB. You could probably fit in another BSS and transports for the existing units too. 600 pts can bring a fair bit to the table, if you've got the models (which is always my problem).

D

I have the models to bring another BSS squad (with rhino support). However, here is my dilemma. I feel at 1850 3 troops is marginally enough, but not really. But the BSS squads rarely do much other than camp on objectives. So, I tend to gravitate towards what adds more killing power to my list.

I may try out the seraphim squad. It would be nice to give Celestine hit & run. What is the common deployment method for seraphim and celestine? On the board or deep striking?

 Green is Best! wrote:
I may try out the seraphim squad. It would be nice to give Celestine hit & run. What is the common deployment method for seraphim and celestine? On the board or deep striking?

Always on the board.

Depending on my opponent, I like to deep strike my Seraphim if they are well-entrenched. But I also run 2 full squads of them, so I have some safety and redundancy in case the worst happens.

 curran12 wrote:
Depending on my opponent, I like to deep strike my Seraphim if they are well-entrenched. But I also run 2 full squads of them, so I have some safety and redundancy in case the worst happens.

You can get 24+d6 inches across the board with Celestine and Seraphim by Turn 2. That's a pretty good threat range. I suppose if you're playing hammer and anvil or got severely out deployed, you could be out of reach at that point, but still... I just don't see the risks of deep strike as ever being worth it for a unit that begs to be on the board.

Has anyone gotten much table time against daemon-based FMC lists?

I have NOT played against them at all, and am likely to face one in an upcoming tournament (the meta here is apparently saturated with daemons). While I can think about some strategies on paper... I only have an answer to 1, maybe 2 princes/greater daemons before they are crashing into things and making my ladies quite sad.

Shooting is likely to hurt or kill one (assuming I can get lucky enough to ground it), and Jacobus and company can mulch a second... but after that... yeesh - I feel like I have no solutions to the 3rd or 4th (let alone anything else in the list).

 Green is Best! wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:
How about a Seraphim squad with 2x duel flamer and a 10 Sister Ret Squad with 4xHB. You could probably fit in another BSS and transports for the existing units too. 600 pts can bring a fair bit to the table, if you've got the models (which is always my problem).

D

I have the models to bring another BSS squad (with rhino support). However, here is my dilemma. I feel at 1850 3 troops is marginally enough, but not really. But the BSS squads rarely do much other than camp on objectives. So, I tend to gravitate towards what adds more killing power to my list.

I may try out the seraphim squad. It would be nice to give Celestine hit & run. What is the common deployment method for seraphim and celestine? On the board or deep striking?

Perhaps you should reconsider how you use your Troops, then?

I've had great luck with saying "Forget my home field objectives. The only objectives that matter are ones with enemy models holding them."

Send the Sisters up the board with everything else and use Retributors and Exorcists to keep your objectives clear of enemy drop pods, etc. Force the enemy off their camped objectives and take them away from the enemy. This is a little like the Annihilation tactic - building an army purely to win by tabling the opponent - except somewhat more reliable, because you only need to hold 1 point more than the enemy to win, so if you take one of their objectives and kill their warlord, and they have 2 objectives, you've won - Celestine won't die in a game (she is your warlord, right?) and you get a free point for Linebreaker just for holding an enemy objective.

 pretre wrote:

You can get 24+d6 inches across the board with Celestine and Seraphim by Turn 2. That's a pretty good threat range. I suppose if you're playing hammer and anvil or got severely out deployed, you could be out of reach at that point, but still... I just don't see the risks of deep strike as ever being worth it for a unit that begs to be on the board.

It's contextual, imo. The board factors a lot into it, as a squad of Seraphim dramatically loses killing power once the casualties start rolling in, and if I don't have a nice method of LOS blocking, I figure the risks of the squad getting shot up en route to their target to be about the same as a deep strike.

That's not to say you should never deploy em, it really comes down to what I'm fighting and what they are using. I'll happily embrace the risk of bad deep strikes against a Tau gunline, as running up to that line is a way more dangerous situation. On the other hand, if it is an Ork horde, having the Seraphim on the ground and working as a troubleshooting unit has way more benefits than dropping them. That said, I tend to be very aggressive and ambitious with my deep striking Seaphim, so I think my risk tolerance for that is higher than yours. Has it bitten me before? Totally and I'm not gonna deny that. But I'm of the mindset that a Seraphim drop is one of the best shock weapons the SoB have, and they can get very disruptive very fast.

I like to use the cheapest cannoness with her HQ squad, park them on the Quad gun with 3 heavy bolters. I already got 3 excorcists so this adds a bit more dakka.

 curran12 wrote:
It's contextual, imo. The board factors a lot into it, as a squad of Seraphim dramatically loses killing power once the casualties start rolling in, and if I don't have a nice method of LOS blocking, I figure the risks of the squad getting shot up en route to their target to be about the same as a deep strike.

The risk isn't that they aren't getting shot up. The risk is that they are off the table. Celestine off the table is just bad. She needs to be on the table, drawing attention and fire as soon as possible. Every shot they put into her is a wasted shot and you want those shots to keep coming. Yes, the Seraphim are great and all but they are just there to escort Celestine and hopefully drop a bunch of flamer templates on someone. If I was going to deep strike Seraphim, I would never do it with Celestine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I like to use the cheapest cannoness with her HQ squad, park them on the Quad gun with 3 heavy bolters. I already got 3 excorcists so this adds a bit more dakka.

So you are paying ~195 points for 3 non-scoring Heavy Bolters and someone to fire the quad-gun. Ouch.

If you're going to spend that much, just get a sister squad and give them Jacobus or Kyrinov. Then they are scoring, tough to dislodge and still have a BS5 quad-gun. You lose 2 Heavy Bolters, but the scoring and FNP or Fearless more than makes up for it.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Perhaps you should reconsider how you use your Troops, then?

I've had great luck with saying "Forget my home field objectives. The only objectives that matter are ones with enemy models holding them."

Send the Sisters up the board with everything else and use Retributors and Exorcists to keep your objectives clear of enemy drop pods, etc. Force the enemy off their camped objectives and take them away from the enemy. This is a little like the Annihilation tactic - building an army purely to win by tabling the opponent - except somewhat more reliable, because you only need to hold 1 point more than the enemy to win, so if you take one of their objectives and kill their warlord, and they have 2 objectives, you've won - Celestine won't die in a game (she is your warlord, right?) and you get a free point for Linebreaker just for holding an enemy objective.

This is definitely something to consider. This last tournament, I did not have the points or slots for a Retributor squad, so I had to leave one behind to man the quad gun. However, I have toyed with putting them in rhinos to do exactly what you are saying. My only concern there is the added easy kill points. I guess it really depends on what type of army you are playing. If they are going to cower on the back edge like the filthy xeno scum they are, you definitely need to advance. But, if they are going to come to you (orks, nids, etc.) I think you can just start off on the front edge of your deployment zone and slowly fall back while giving them the Emperor's deliverance with boltguns to the face.

Also, if playing against cron air or other highly mobile troops choices (IG, etc). You can't just ignore your own objectives.

Obviously tactics will need reconsidering in circumstances, but we're one of the few armies that can still do mechanized blitzkrieg, and with Necrons at least retributors have an easy enough time forcing those flying warriors back into reserve.

Yeah I tried DSing my Sereaphim recently, it was far from successful. Running them behind Rhinos seems much more sensible in most situations.

D

Deep Striking is risky, but can work.

At 2000+ points with double force organizations I am wanting to try an "in your face list".

Buy an Aegis defence line with Comms Relay. Turn 2 you have a good chance of getting almost everything on the board.

Two avenger strike fighters, at least one Seraphim group for Celestine and fill up your points left (after 4 troups and other hq) with as many dominions and seraphims as you can.

Overwhelming your opponent's side of the table on turn 2 would be fun to play. Here's a 2500 points list I am planning on eventually trying.

Celestine
Kyrinov

10 Sisters in Repressor. Flamer, CombiFlamer, Heavy Flamer
10 Sisters in Repressor. Flamer, CombiFlamer, Heavy Flamer
10 Sisters. Heavy Bolter, Flamer
10 Sisters. Heavy Bolter, Flamer

7 Seraphims. Hand Flamers x 2, MeltaBombs
5 Dominions in Immolator. Meltagun x 2. Heavy Flamer on tank.
5 Dominions in Immolator. Meltagun x 2. Heavy Flamer on tank.
5 Dominions in Immolator. Meltagun x 2. Heavy Flamer on tank.
5 Dominions in Immolator. Meltagun x 2. Heavy Flamer on tank.
5 Dominions in Immolator. Meltagun x 2. Heavy Flamer on tank.

Avenger Strike Fighter
Avenger Strike Fighter
Exorcist

Aegis Line with Comms relay.

That comes up to 2380 so still 120 points to play around so maybe a beefed up retributor squad or with some point shifting a second exorcist.

Kyrinov babysits 2 sister squads behind line to hold home objective and you have 2 repressors going forward turn one, hopefully staying in cover or out of LoS.

Turn 2 should see you getting almost everything on the table. My gaming club is small so only 4x4 tables. There's going to be nowhere to hide from outflanking Immolators.

Playing 2500 pts on a 4x4.. that's going to be a massacre!

Voldrak wrote:
Buy an Aegis defence line with Comms Relay. Turn 2 you have a good chance of getting almost everything on the board.

And you give up one of your only sources of anti-air in your list.

Turn 2 should see you getting almost everything on the table. My gaming club is small so only 4x4 tables. There's going to be nowhere to hide from outflanking Immolators.

Wow. 2500 points each on a 4x4? That isn't even 40k anymore. That's just insanity.

Yeah. Small tables, but still lots of terrain to block LoS or provide cover.

Still, there usually is not a whole lot of stuff left on the board by turn 4

Giving up on the quad gun can be painful, but two Avengers should be able to deal with enemy flyers assuming they live past one turn themselves.

Could also get a second defensive line with quad gun for the 120 points left.

Voldrak wrote:
Giving up on the quad gun can be painful, but two Avengers should be able to deal with enemy flyers assuming they live past one turn themselves.

Avengers are guaranteed to live past turn 1 since they can't be on the board until turn 2.
I have found Avengers pretty disappointing for anti-air. They are only AV12/10/10 and go down pretty quick against any other flyer.

Could also get a second defensive line with quad gun for the 120 points left.

Or a Bastion with Icarus. Elevation is awesome.

 pretre wrote:
Yes, the Seraphim are great and all but they are just there to escort Celestine and hopefully drop a bunch of flamer templates on someone. If I was going to deep strike Seraphim, I would never do it with Celestine.

I think you're dramatically downplaying the usefulness of Seras and Celestine. It's a two-way street, in that both units improve each other, the Seras aren't just ablative wounds for Celestine. If that were the case you'd just be wasting your time running them together because Celestine has no use for extra wounds.

With Deep Strike you can dictate where your opponent has to deal with your threat much more so than with a deployed unit. On top of that, if your strike is even remotely accurate (which is not hard to do) whatever you land near WILL DIE. So what you've done is traded 2 turns of Celestine getting shot at (assuming she didn't die and not get back up in those turns) for putting a killy unit that's actually pretty hard to take down into some soft spot of your opponent's army. Worst case there is that you swap units (Seras for whatever they landed near) and now Celestine is freelancing in the enemy's backfield.

Curran12 was right in that it IS contextual. There are loads of scenarios where you want to stay grounded, but there are lots of others where a calculated risk can really gut your opponent's plans. (And obviously the proliferation of Interceptor weapons has dampened this strategy a bit as well.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I feel like we have this discussion every 6 months or so.

DSing is still probably vilable in some situations, but considering the short range it's unlikely to bear fruit much of the time. Also the weaponry, chance of scatter and nature of the act of faith means it's not great against vechicles.

So yes, can still be useful but lack of decent payoffs often mean it isn't viable.

D

Amerikon wrote:
I think you're dramatically downplaying the usefulness of Seras and Celestine. It's a two-way street, in that both units improve each other, the Seras aren't just ablative wounds for Celestine. If that were the case you'd just be wasting your time running them together because Celestine has no use for extra wounds.

Celestine needs extra wounds to suck up S6+ AP2.

With Deep Strike you can dictate where your opponent has to deal with your threat much more so than with a deployed unit. On top of that, if your strike is even remotely accurate (which is not hard to do) whatever you land near WILL DIE. So what you've done is traded 2 turns of Celestine getting shot at (assuming she didn't die and not get back up in those turns) for putting a killy unit that's actually pretty hard to take down into some soft spot of your opponent's army. Worst case there is that you swap units (Seras for whatever they landed near) and now Celestine is freelancing in the enemy's backfield.

2+ turns of Celestine not absorbing shots for your army and getting in place is a big deal. Celestine is a fire magnet. You WANT her getting shot at because every shot at her is a wasted one. If you DS her, even on turn 2, she can't get into hand to hand until turn 3. The whole point of Seras and Celestine is more flamers and Hit and Run. If she is on the board, she's using Hit and Run on turn 2.

I feel like we have this discussion every 6 months or so.

We do. And my opinion hasn't changed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of playing with ideas, I am going to a FW allowed tournament that is happening in August... (1850)

Here's my three current ideas for mulling.

List 1: Pure Mech Sisters
List 2: Drive me forward so I can shoot them! SOB/IG
List 3: More traditional Mixed Blob/Sisters

List 1: Pure Mech Sisters
Saint Celestine
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Multi-melta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Multi-melta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Melta, Flamer, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino (Search)
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Melta, Flamer, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Repressor (Search)
Dominions (5) with Flamer x2, Combi-Flamer, TL-MM Immo (Dozer, Search)
Dominions (5) with Flamer x2, Combi-Flamer, TL-MM Immo (Dozer, Search)
Dominions (10) with Melta x2, Flamer x2, Meltabomb, Repressor (Search)
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist

List 2: Drive me forward so I can shoot them! SOB/IG
6 AV13 front hulls, 1 AV14, 2 AV12. Just drive forward onto their doorstep and laugh maniacally.

Saint Celestine
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Multi-melta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Repressor
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Multi-melta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Repressor
Dominion Squad (10) with 2x Melta, 2xFlamer, Combi-Melta in Repressor
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
Primaris Psyker (Jumps in with Infantry or PCS depending on powers)
PCS with 3 Flamers (In Vendetta)
Infantry with Melta, AC in Chimera (ML/HF)
Infantry with Melta, AC in Chimera (ML/HF)
Vendetta
Leman Russ Demolisher

List 3: More traditional Mixed Blob/Sisters
Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Multi-melta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Repressor (Searchlight)
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Multi-melta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Repressor (Searchlight)
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors x6, 4 HB (In Bastion)
Bastion with Icarus
Primaris Psyker (With Sabre or Blob)
PCS with 3xFlamer (Vendetta)
4 x Infantry with Power Axe, Autocannon
Sabre with TL-Lascannon (On top of bastion)
Vendetta
Manticore

Does the Sabre platform fit on top of the Bastion? I know I was depressed to find out HWTs did not fit up there :(

Honestly though, depending on the missions I think option 2 will be the best bet. People cannot deal with AV13 or 14 well these days, and you have plenty of shots to ground FMCs before blasting them to pieces. I think option 2 wins.

I feel like we have this discussion every 6 months or so.

We do. And my opinion hasn't changed.

Yeah, I just feel like there should be a counterpoint whenever someone says "NEVER Deepstrike".

Also, run List 2. It looks like fun.

Lol I'm trying that Friday. Good to know we are the same kind of crazy. Flyers? Who cares!

If this is true, retributors just got broken:

Vengeance Weapons Battery $50
-The box comes with two Vengeance Weapons Batteries. Each can be armed with either a Punisher Gatling Cannon or a Battle Cannon
-The rules for both Apocalypse and Warhammer 40k are included in the box

Firestorm Redoubt $65
-Large fortification that has a pair of Quad-Linked Icarus Lascanons
-The rules for both Apocalypse and Warhammer 40k are included in the box

Aquila Strongpoint $115
-Has two options: Macro-Cannon or Vortex Missile
-Macro Cannon fire at a long range with an enormous blast radius. Can even target flyers.
-Vortex Missile comes with 7 Vortex Missles, which are bigger versions of a Vortex Grenade, but with infinite range
-The rules for both Apocalypse and Warhammer 40k are included in the box

What's that you say? 52 S5 rending shots? Yeah....

...comes with two Vengeance Weapons Batteries...

So we're thinking that two batteries will count as a single fortification? Even one Punisher is probably worth it though.

Amerikon wrote:

...comes with two Vengeance Weapons Batteries...

So we're thinking that two batteries will count as a single fortification? Even one Punisher is probably worth it though.

Exactly my current thought. So two VWB, hoping that they are gun emplacements like the quad-gun/etc. So 10 Rets with 4 HB, Simulacrum and those things. Yikes.

When you absolutely, positively need to end EVERYTHING.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
When you absolutely, positively need to end EVERYTHING.

Seriously... It's crazy. 52 S5 shots is just a lot of hurt.

 pretre wrote:
If this is true, retributors just got broken:

Vengeance Weapons Battery $50
-The box comes with two Vengeance Weapons Batteries. Each can be armed with either a Punisher Gatling Cannon or a Battle Cannon
-The rules for both Apocalypse and Warhammer 40k are included in the box

Firestorm Redoubt $65
-Large fortification that has a pair of Quad-Linked Icarus Lascanons
-The rules for both Apocalypse and Warhammer 40k are included in the box

Aquila Strongpoint $115
-Has two options: Macro-Cannon or Vortex Missile
-Macro Cannon fire at a long range with an enormous blast radius. Can even target flyers.
-Vortex Missile comes with 7 Vortex Missles, which are bigger versions of a Vortex Grenade, but with infinite range
-The rules for both Apocalypse and Warhammer 40k are included in the box

What's that you say? 52 S5 rending shots? Yeah....

Are you implying that the punisher gatling cannon would benefit from the rending rule? While I would love that to work, I have always had it ruled against me so I don't even bother trying anymore..

 Green is Best! wrote:

Are you implying that the punisher gatling cannon would benefit from the rending rule? While I would love that to work, I have always had it ruled against me so I don't even bother trying anymore..

It works with all the other gun emplacements, so why not?

Looks like I want some of these! Oh yesss.... :3

 pretre wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:

Are you implying that the punisher gatling cannon would benefit from the rending rule? While I would love that to work, I have always had it ruled against me so I don't even bother trying anymore..

It works with all the other gun emplacements, so why not?

That was not how it got ruled to me. I was told the gun emplacement was a weapon fired by the unit, but not one of the unit's weapons so no rending.

 Green is Best! wrote:
That was not how it got ruled to me. I was told the gun emplacement was a weapon fired by the unit, but not one of the unit's weapons so no rending.

Gun Emplacements

One model in base contact with the gun emplacement can
fireit instead of his own weapon,following the normal rules
for shooting.

Emplaced Weapons

Use the firing model's
BallisticSkill and the line of sight of the weapon.All relevant
specialrules from the firing model and the weaponare used.

The unit's weapons gain rending until the end of the phase

As far as I have seen, you can use all special rules that a model has when shooting either type. (Fire Dragons with Tank Hunters were fun before their codex got updated.) That means rending Punisher Cannons.

Yeah. That's worth $50 bucks. Bring me your aircraft that I might smite them! Along with everything else!

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Yeah. That's worth $50 bucks. Bring me your aircraft that I might smite them! Along with everything else!

Well, against aircraft, it isn't spectacular. 52 shots is 52/6 hits. Assuming AV11, that's still only 52/36 (~1.4) results. Against everything else is where it really shines. 52 shots = 156/4 hits, and 156/24 rends (6.5 rends)

If you want anti-air, that double quad-icarus lascannon looks pretty nasty.

That level of torrent of fire will end almost anything. I wonder what the points cost will be on it? I'd say its worth at least 250-300. Wonder how its physical stats will work, because if it stays at T7 2 wounds like a quad gun, it is dead turn one, highest priority target..

I've been playing with ways of getting punishers into my sob army recently and this would give me a lovely easy way of doing it......but might make a few people cry!

Can you imagine a horde army player's FACE? Sisters lined up with flamers, exorcists, and hanging out in the back, a pair of Emperor blessed bullet hoses to ensure nothing but stains are left in their arc of fire.

Oh yes. I'm buying one.

I'm ready to push the button on that and the air defense bunker depending on rules and points.

Thanks for the references Pretre. So what are considered gun emplacements vs. emplaced weapons?

Can't wait for new terrain if they are 40k compatible. I didn't like playing with bastion so I sold it and sticked with ADL. Hopefully these ones allow some variation.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Thanks for the references Pretre. So what are considered gun emplacements vs. emplaced weapons?

Gun emplacements are the Quad-gun and Icarus that are on the little stand.
Emplaced weapons are the heavy bolters on the Bastion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

meh_ wrote:
Can't wait for new terrain if they are 40k compatible. I didn't like playing with bastion so I sold it and sticked with ADL. Hopefully these ones allow some variation.

It's too bad you never went with the Bastion. It was AWESOME for sob. The 4 extra heavy bolters (2 at any given time) really helped out the Rets.

So..... you take the bastion and pop the Ret squad inside and those heavy bolters become rending as well?

Excellent. How many weapons can fire out of the window? 1 or 2?

 Green is Best! wrote:
So..... you take the bastion and pop the Ret squad inside and those heavy bolters become rending as well?

Excellent. How many weapons can fire out of the window? 1 or 2?

Yes.

So My general loadout:
6 Rets with Simulacrum and 4 HB.

At any given time, only 2 of the bastion heavy bolters can see one target (generally). Each window gives you two shots. So...

5 HB and 1 HB with Precision (Superior) can all be rending (if they make their faith check). It is a nasty combo. I then generally put a sisters squad with Multi-melta on top to run the Icarus.

This will definitely change my list. My only problem with Rets is that my faith in the Emperor is not very strong. It never seems to go off when I need it. That is why I shifted to three exorcists.

But I do like what I am seeing here.

Put a Canoness in that squad to have BS5 with one of the punisher cannon and +1 to the act of faith roll, it should help .

Also, it may be a reason to field her again, which is rare these days.

Bastion is good until the impossible happens to you.

Playing a 1500 points game against a Vulkan themed army.

Put the bastion far into my deployment zone. Coteaz and Henchmen on top. Rets inside and a sister squad bubble wrapping the bastion as best they can to prevent deep striking within melta range.

Mission was relic and opponent had a Vindicator, which I managed to immobilize it, while facing the relic, roughly 28 inches away from the bastion so I was technically safe... or so I thought.

Turn 2 I move forward my second sister squad keeping in cover to go grab the relic. I know I'll likely loose, but with a little luck I should be able to grab relic on turn 3-4.

He shoots vindicator at them and actually scatters 12 inches back directly towards my bastion. After we adjusted scatter accounting for his ballistic reduce, the template barely clipped the corner of the bastion... still a hit. Roll dices and not only penetrates it, but rolls a 6 on the chart, which becomes a 7 due to AP2.

Bastion blows up, kill all henchman, does a wound to Coteaz who has to jump off. Retributors inside all die and the squad bubble wrapping loses 6 girls.

Managed to tie that game nonetheless in the end, but I've been wary of taking a bastion since.

 Static-Cat wrote:
Put a Canoness in that squad to have BS5 with one of the punisher cannon and +1 to the act of faith roll, it should help .

Also, it may be a reason to field her again, which is rare these days.

Still not worth it. :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voldrak wrote:
Bastion is good until the impossible happens to you.

Well, yeah... Everything is awesome until the impossible happens. And that is a horror story.

This all does have me thinking I want a bastion.

 MWHistorian wrote:
This all does have me thinking I want a bastion.

Give it a week or so until we see the rules for the new ones. The double Quad-Icarus bunker looks like it may be better anti-flyer and the double punishers looks like a better match for Rets. Depends on points and rules though.

Hopefully the new terrain isn't Apoc-only.

 Shandara wrote:
Hopefully the new terrain isn't Apoc-only.

Most recent rumors say that each one comes with rules for Apoc and 40k.

 pretre wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Hopefully the new terrain isn't Apoc-only.

Most recent rumors say that each one comes with rules for Apoc and 40k.

Ah yes, I should read further back in the thread (top of page in fact)

Confirmed that rules for 40k will be included in the boxes are per pre-order items up on the website.

Already ordered the battlecannon/punisher kit. Just hoping it's not going to be 200 points or more to field.

I am also disappointed there are no formation for the sisters
While I agree it's harder being direct only on everything I would have loved a formation that included 3+ Exorcists or a massive wall of immolators.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh.. and to make up for the bastion story.

For every bad game there's a good one.

1000 points against Orks tonight.

Tabled him on the bottom of 3 and and my total losses were 7 dominions and 1 seraphims... which I dont think even amounted to 100 points.

Played that second list vs necrons with chaos allies. It runs counter meta so much! People are used to killing infantry from turn 1 and my army was in high av until turn 3+ when he started to actually pop stuff. Av13 repressora are awesome!

Tie at end of 5 but game went to 6 and 7 and I kept pulling farther ahead!

 Green is Best! wrote:
This will definitely change my list. My only problem with Rets is that my faith in the Emperor is not very strong. It never seems to go off when I need it. That is why I shifted to three exorcists.

But I do like what I am seeing here.

Tonight, I had a game where every single roll to do with Acts of Faith was a 1. It was a 5 round long game. Every turn I got 1 Faith Point, and failed the one I got on a 1. That was 9 rolls of ones, as the first turn I was saving it since nothing really needed it, and then I realised there was nothing left to use it.

On the other hand, my repentias wrecked face. They took out Dante and his unit of golden cuckolds losing only the Mistress in sacrificial challenge with Dante.

(Very un-fluffy I'll admit, to sacrifice the mistress to save the repentias.)

Played a 1000 pt game against Necrons. Draw, but it we went one more turn I would have annihilated him. :( My acts of faith saved my bacon form a loss when my SOB squad rolled almost all ones on a shooting phase. (What are the mathematical odds of that?) And because of my act of faith, got to reroll them. Booyah! The hero of the game was Celestine and her squad of Seraphim.
I'll be posting a fluff full battle report with pics later in the battle report section.


Oh, here's a link to the battle report.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/536921.page

I played a 1500pt game last week against C:SM. I took:

Celestine
Kyrinov
2 x 10 BSS with flamer and MM in repressors
1 x 5 doms with 2 meltagun and combi melt a in repressor
2 x 6 seraphim with hand flamers
2 x 7 rets with heavy bolters
Exorcist

Game was great fun, the repressors took on a shed load of fire power and survived. Including a full unit of devs with las cannons, a las cannon razorback, and twin autcannon dread. In the whole game I lost 1 repressor and that was only due to having to park it sideways on to block a charge route.

I love having high av, its so different. I can move my squads around and leave the girls inside while sniping with melta out the top. Great fun. I'm now busy converting my tanks, got 3 repressors made and a fourth on the way.

Voldrak wrote:
Confirmed that rules for 40k will be included in the boxes are per pre-order items up on the website.

Already ordered the battlecannon/punisher kit. Just hoping it's not going to be 200 points or more to field.

I am also disappointed there are no formation for the sisters
While I agree it's harder being direct only on everything I would have loved a formation that included 3+ Exorcists or a massive wall of immolators.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh.. and to make up for the bastion story.

For every bad game there's a good one.

1000 points against Orks tonight.

Tabled him on the bottom of 3 and and my total losses were 7 dominions and 1 seraphims... which I dont think even amounted to 100 points.

There are SoB apocalypse formations in the WD, which was released around the same time as WD dex. It included Repentant Host and Purge Squadron.

So today I found out Wraitknights have a 3+ armour. Sure my Exorcists spent the majority of the game shooting missiles at it but the fact that Celestine took the last wound from it on the last turn was so good.

I had a similar revelation about the wraith knight a couple of weeks back, my opponent at the time then spent the rest of the game running away from celestine!

 scrunty wrote:
I had a similar revelation about the wraith knight a couple of weeks back, my opponent at the time then spent the rest of the game running away from celestine!

I've just got images of this giant running and scrabbling to get away from this chick charging full pelt after it waving a sword above her head....

Exactly what it felt like. It was great, it massively tied up the wraithknight as it used most of its fire power trying to kill her. Even when it eventually did it still wouldn't go next to the marker I left to show where she had karked it!

 Ovion wrote:

 scrunty wrote:
I had a similar revelation about the wraith knight a couple of weeks back, my opponent at the time then spent the rest of the game running away from celestine!

I've just got images of this giant running and scrabbling to get away from this chick charging full pelt after it waving a sword above her head....

Celestine is the baddest dude in 40k. There is no one I have ever allowed to get in harms way the way I throw Celestine into the fray. I used her my last game to shut down a death company squad completely. They kept killing her, and she kept resurrecting and charging them again, taking small chunks out of it every time.

So what makes us believe that the Punishers on the new terrain kits will be 'emplaced weapons' rather that gun emplacements?

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
So what makes us believe that the Punishers on the new terrain kits will be 'emplaced weapons' rather that gun emplacements?

D

They'll be gun emplacements but that doesn't really matter.

Fair enough I was getting the vibe that we'd be getting the rending on them with the vets but couldn't quite see the conection. Still the Punishers will be awesome, I'm certainly picking up these kits.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
Fair enough I was getting the vibe that we'd be getting the rending on them with the vets but couldn't quite see the conection. Still the Punishers will be awesome, I'm certainly picking up these kits.

D

Both emplaced guns and gun emplacements can rend.

I just wanted to add about my recent battle. Celestine was a beast. Best character I've ever played. In one battle her squad took out an annhialation barge, a squad of immortals and the necron lord that was with them. Granted, I had luck on my side, but still....dang.
Also, I'll throw a shout out to my hospitilar. I know I get flack for using a command squad with 3 heavy bolters, but that feel no pain rule for my heavy weapons came in handy. Perhaps not the most efficient way to do it, but it's fun.

 pretre wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:
Fair enough I was getting the vibe that we'd be getting the rending on them with the vets but couldn't quite see the conection. Still the Punishers will be awesome, I'm certainly picking up these kits.

D

Both emplaced guns and gun emplacements can rend.

Wow. Needless to say "Boom!".

D

Yaknow, don't count on shenanigans with retributers, if the guns are automated like the tau's, that option will go out the window.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yaknow, don't count on shenanigans with retributers, if the guns are automated like the tau's, that option will go out the window.

They're fortifications though, which means BS2 auto, or someone to fire them, like every other fortification.

I'm actually looking forward to this - one of the few guard things I liked was the Heavy 20 gatling cannon, and now I don't need the ugly old Leman Russ to get it.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yaknow, don't count on shenanigans with retributers, if the guns are automated like the tau's, that option will go out the window.

Every other fort doesn't work like that though.

Yeah, these new models cannot come quickly enough. I just played necron air force this weekend at a tournament and got tabled. TABLED! (3 doom scythes and 4 night scythes).

I did not feel outplayed, just out cheesed. However, the dice gods were against me. I had Celestine and her squad 2 inches away from ruins that would have completely blocked LOS from all his fliers AND was his objective. I went to move through cover.... snake eyes. I went to run, one again. So, here I am with my sisters out in the open when his entire air force converged on them. Needless to say.... it was bloody.

I was about to start asking what allies to take in order to get more AA (besides the Avenger which is not always allowed). I was leaning towards Khan, a squad of 5 bikes, and a storm talon. Escort and outflank the whole unit of White Scars and call it a day.

Guard is the easy answer.

What a shock - looking at the GW site no SOB Appocalypse formations :(

 Mr Morden wrote:
What a shock - looking at the GW site no SOB Appocalypse formations :(

In some ways, I don't mind this, as really - are they suited to the massive engagements involved in apoc?
If they were to take part in it, they'd be supporting / have support from, Imperial Guard / Space Marines / Inquisition / etc.

But then, for Sisters (and Tau), the new Fortifications do seem pretty amazing, 'specially if it is 2x Heavy 20, Str5 guns!

Has anywhere leaked/confirmed the new fortification rules? I know there is some 40k approved version... but my brain is having a really hard time believing a heavy 20 gun is it...

 Mr Morden wrote:
What a shock - looking at the GW site no SOB Appocalypse formations :(

I can't say that surprises me, given the metal models and the small capacity for them to be bundled. I am hoping for formations/stratagems in the book and cards though.

Got about 4500 points of Sisters now to Apoc up. ;3

quiestdeus wrote:
Has anywhere leaked/confirmed the new fortification rules? I know there is some 40k approved version... but my brain is having a really hard time believing a heavy 20 gun is it...

not yet.

quiestdeus wrote:
Has anywhere leaked/confirmed the new fortification rules? I know there is some 40k approved version... but my brain is having a really hard time believing a heavy 20 gun is it...

The Punisher Gatling Cannon can be found in the Imperial Guard Codex, mounted on the Leman Russ Punisher, at 180pts.
The gun itself, is 24", Str5, AP-, Heavy 20.

It's one of the few Imperial Guard things I like, and now I don't have to use Guard to have it

Right but we want to know the points and rules for the forts themselves.

My friend who has never played sisters of battle got my list and my tactical notes from me while he visited. He's got a month off or something so he's touring his friends. Really good painter and modeler.

He's immediately buying sisters of Battle and very excited about the idea. Should be interesting to get reports back since he plays in the JAPAN meta.

Interesting thing about the Japan meta: they REALLY like mechanized lists apparently. a pair of Storm Ravens is common. 6 Razorbacks is still seeing use. Kinda interesting. The list goes on. thought that was an interesting bit of insight.

Honestly, I'm finding my tanks live longer these days than before. Then again, my meta is people who think TLLC/fist dreads sitting back sniping is good, and TFG types who bring triple helturkey/coteaz + stormraven lists against the first sort, so...

But against both, AV13 can survive the game if I don't let it get charged. I honestly think the internet standard of vehicles is only true about weak transports like chimerae and metal bawxes, which really do feel like they need to be spammed to work, and silly things like shooty dreads, or lone podding dreads, which would not have worked in 5th either.

Yeah, mass av13 is pretty damn decent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a separate note, I am trying to dig up some affordable dozer blades (big ones) to convert my vehicles to repressors. Any ideas? I'm thinking I may have to raid a toy store for bulldozers, but would like to see if anyone has a better plan.

The ones in my gallery on my home made repressors are also homemade using styrene sheet. I did a quick tutorial on my p&m blog a while back about how to make them. Search for "venatores" on the p&m blog forum. They were pretty simple to do. I would link, but posting from my phone.

Hmm. I remember seeing your thread but hadn't remembered the dozer blade thing. I'll have to see if I can work something up.

 Mr Morden wrote:
What a shock - looking at the GW site no SOB Appocalypse formations :(

Maybe there are rules for SoB formations, but they just don't bundle them as they literally don't have the models for it?

We can but hope...........

If you want Dozer blades, you can get some Here =)

I cannot wait to see the rules on the double punisher cannon fortification!

It may be the first thing I buy from GW since 4th Edition! (and seriously, I won't buy a thing until I've seen it's rule, so I hope for them that it get leaked soon or they might lose a sale, lol)

And for the formation thing... You really want a bundle that cost EXACTLY the same price than the individual objects? (and in some rare cases, even more?)

However, I'll admit that it would give some visibility for a normally ignored army.

Yeah, I saw those. $7.50 isn't horrible ($5 shipping).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
These ones are pretty cool too:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hive-City-Terrain-Dozer-Blade-suitable-for-28mm-scale-tanks-40k-Dust-Tactics-/181165360021?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item2a2e4c0395

Static-Cat wrote:If you want Dozer blades, you can get some Here =)

I cannot wait to see the rules on the double punisher cannon fortification!

It may be the first thing I buy from GW since 4th Edition! (and seriously, I won't buy a thing until I've seen it's rule, so I hope for them that it get leaked soon or they might lose a sale, lol)

And for the formation thing... You really want a bundle that cost EXACTLY the same price than the individual objects? (and in some rare cases, even more?)

However, I'll admit that it would give some visibility for a normally ignored army.

If it's not leaked beforehand, I intend to pre-order it (Having been giving a £20 voucher for GW, so £10 for it is perfectly ok ), so I can enlighten everyone here to it!

I pre-ordered both of them locally, so I'll do the same if I get them first.

OK, need some advice, the sisters haven't stood up too well vs my Tau, and our SoB player is getting aggravated with it.
His list:
cannoness
4 BSS in rhinos
3 doms in immos
2 exos
1 HB ret squad

My tau is a jumble
commander, w bodyguard (MP/ BC)
Ethereal
2x3 crisis (TLPG, MP)
1 riptide ion
3x12 firewarriors
2x8 pathfinders 1 in fish
2 hammerheads 1 ion, 1 rail
2 railsides

main problem he's having, is I'm wiping his non reserve units by T3, the doms outflank and can really screw up my day, but that's about it.

any advice?

The only other units he has available is 2x10 serap squads and 1 more rhino

Is this one of those cases where you have a "friend" who needs help with a problem?

So another game with my SoB and anotther win, much to the surprise of many in my gaming group.

Against SM again, but a much more competent player, it was Big Guns never tire, Hammer and anvil style.

He poured alot of points into Hammernators (2 x 5 man squads) and had a LRR for one squad. He had two tac squads, a dev squad and a librarian as a HQ.

I think it would've been a tougher game if I hadn't got rid of the tac squad and droppod that appeared behind my lines T1. I was also lucky in the fact that the tac squads melta weapons failed to do anything and I escaped with only losing 1 hp to bolter fire on my rear armour.

Despite my 2 exorcists and my rets lasting nearly the whole game I really struggled with the Hammernators, that 3++ just refused to fail, I think I only killed two terminators the whole game
. I also really struggled with the LR, once my melta battle sisters bit the dust I could only glance it but even then I was focussing on the termies, because of this I am seriously considering switching out a squad of seraphim for melta doms as I need more redundency to tackle av14. Saying that the seraphim with Celestine performed well, and Celestine is full on beast-mode, she was much more successful jumping across the table rather than dsing in.

Can't wait for the new terrain kits, should make a nice new dynamic.

D

 dpal666 wrote:


main problem he's having, is I'm wiping his non reserve units by T3, the doms outflank and can really screw up my day, but that's about it.

any advice?

The only other units he has available is 2x10 serap squads and 1 more rhino

He probably shouldn't be reserving then. Doms are good for early game pressure and you need them on the board.

 pretre wrote:

 dpal666 wrote:


main problem he's having, is I'm wiping his non reserve units by T3, the doms outflank and can really screw up my day, but that's about it.

any advice?

The only other units he has available is 2x10 serap squads and 1 more rhino

He probably shouldn't be reserving then. Doms are good for early game pressure and you need them on the board.

If I don't get first turn against a shooty army like Tau, I'd probably want to outflank just because I'd expect the Dominion Immos to be a big first turn target. Although, the Riptide can Intercept, right? If that's the case that's not even a sure thing anymore.

Also at 4 BSS and a Canoness that's almost 450 points of dead weight in a 1500ish pt army.

Tau are surprisingly easy to win against for sisters.
I've only lost one game against them so far and it was an extremely close match.
Lost because Celestine died on turn 5 and game didnt move on which put him 1 point ahead. A 6th turn would have meant warlord for me and celestine may coming back, but such is fate.


Things that need to change in his list.

Proxy the canoness as Celestine. Drop 1 dominion and put Seraphims in.

Keep reserving the Dominions. They play an essential role in getting the tau player to bunch up in the middle of the table and not spreading on the side of the table. Once they come in, they will likely still get to kill something.

Walk Celestine up with the Seraphims. If everything is in the center, then they can get cover/block LOS (assuming there's terrain) as they move up and everything they want to flame will likely be close to each other.

Focus on the pathfinders. Everything else is second class target. I've won my fights against Tau because I always remove their pathfinders first.

Exorcists and Rets should be able to kill the Riptide in 1 turn of shooting.

If you're not going first, hide everything. You don't want Tau killing your exorcist or retributors before they have contributed.

If your friend is playing 4 troop choices, he needs to give you troops to chew on. Move 2 aggressively forward, in plain sight if needed.

You need to be aggressive against Tau. Give them too many targets to shoot at and keep them bunched up. If you can flame a squad and touch another squad with the same flamer template, then you are doing it right.

 dpal666 wrote:
OK, need some advice, the sisters haven't stood up too well vs my Tau, and our SoB player is getting aggravated with it.
His list:
cannoness
4 BSS in rhinos
3 doms in immos
2 exos
1 HB ret squad

My tau is a jumble
commander, w bodyguard (MP/ BC)
Ethereal
2x3 crisis (TLPG, MP)
1 riptide ion
3x12 firewarriors
2x8 pathfinders 1 in fish
2 hammerheads 1 ion, 1 rail
2 railsides

main problem he's having, is I'm wiping his non reserve units by T3, the doms outflank and can really screw up my day, but that's about it.

any advice?

The only other units he has available is 2x10 serap squads and 1 more rhino

First thing first, he should scrap the cannonnes and buy a new HQ (preferably celestin), as the cannonnes competes for the worst HQ in the game. not as bad as old codex Anuva, but she's a total waste of points and contributes nothing to the game.
Also, trying to upgrade rhinos into repressors (somehow, probably a hard conversion) might also help.

Other then that, donno, what guns his squads and immos got? because the unit TYPES seems ok.

Maybe its a tactics issue as well, he might just be playing poorly. because as a tau, SoB is the hardest army for me to fight against, alongside necrons.

But I disagree on keeping the doms in reserves, forcing the tau to cam up is meaningless, as we do it alot anyway, it makes up charge-proof from non-dedicated assault. a sisters team can take out a tau team in melee without supporting fire to back them off.
If you had alot of AoE weapons it could be a good "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type of deal, but without them you wont get much millage out of it. actually making the tau split up might actually serve you well, as it will allow you to charge at his squads without getting butchered in overwatch.

If your doms are melta domes, scouting alpha strike MIGHT be a better idea, depends on terrain and turn order. (and if the tau got enough EWO around)

I find people often fall into the trwp of reserving when you have specials rules like infultrate, even when it can be more benefitial to start on the board. I guess it fan just become habitual.

D

yes, I gorgot about his load outs, all BSS have flamer/MM
doms are flamers with flamer turrets

I haven't found BSS squads to be dead weight at all, then again, since 2nd ed, I'm one of those players that ALWAYS loads up on troops.
As for Celestine over a cannoness... he doesn't want to do the "everyone take it, so I must also" approach. He takes no special characters and has been very successful without them. That is until the Tau and Eldar dexes
We can try the serphs, but it would be a case of going to double FOC, he loves his doms too much to lose any, I like the idea of repressors, we may have to proxy those for a few games

And yes, this is a friend, I sold him my sisters years ago.
Tau is my main army, eldar are my secondary.

 evildrcheese wrote:
I find people often fall into the trwp of reserving when you have specials rules like infultrate, even when it can be more benefitial to start on the board. I guess it fan just become habitual.

D

Reserves for the win.

Its not a point of "everyone takes it", its just that the cannonnes itself is just wasted points as she gets nothing done, and celestin is probably undercosted. its just more practical.

As for the dominos.
So much flamers! whats the deal?
Who NEEDS so many flames?
He should try packing the dominos as meltas and go for T1 hammerhead kills. at the very least the immo should be packing the MM.
Or, if he insists on so many flamers, got for T1 pathfinder and firewarrior kills.

Either way, dominos are there to cripple your army on T1, then distract you until the rest of the army moves up. SoB are a point-blank army, and needs something to take attention of them until the bulk of the force gets in the action.

Yeah, the Sisters of Battle codex is one of those few (if only) instances, where the Special Characters are cheaper, more efficient, and just outright better than the non-special characters.

Which is wierd.

Tell him to get over it and Take Celestine. Every time I play, she's the best thing I have on the board. And for how cheap she is, you'd be foolish not to take her.

Absolutely right. Celestine is possibly the best HQ choice in the game, let alone the codex. She's needs to be in every sob army. I would love to have a codex where she wasn't needed but at present we don't have that, so just include her and enjoy the 9-15 wounds you get from her every game!

...and someone had to be the best. Why NOT her?

Because she is absurdly so, and holds the entire "codex" on her shoulders. she alone is worth like 2 squads.

Im not really feeling sad about it. She gets clubbed by STR 6. She's only wounding on 4+. It's good, but I really just don't have a lot of strong feelings of agreement here. Someone in 40K had to be "the best". A world full of fairness and rainbows exists, but only if you're a Brony.

Go Sisters of Battle!

 Jancoran wrote:
Im not really feeling sad about it. She gets clubbed by STR 6. She's only wounding on 4+. It's good, but I really just don't have a lot of strong feelings of agreement here. Someone in 40K had to be "the best". A world full of fairness and rainbows exists, but only if you're a Brony.

Go Sisters of Battle!

What he said. Celestine FTW!

I don't know about you, but I would much prefer an non-overpowred celestine accompanied by an army that does not require the current overpowered one to function.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I don't know about you, but I would much prefer an non-overpowred celestine accompanied by an army that does not require the current overpowered one to function.

I agree with you, but we have what we have and it is not going to change anytime soon. There is no point in dwelling on it.

Frankly, she is not nearly as good as she was, due to all the S6 and S7 flying around. She could tank psybolt stormbolters and pulse carbines like a champ, but with HYMP, burst cannons, serpent shields, scatter lasers, and shuriken cannons being the "new hotness"? She WILL fail that 2+ in a single round of shooting and then you're stuck on hoping a coin-flip gives you your bullet-soak back. What little I feel we had going for us is getting blasted away by this new meta. For once I actually wish FW was more widely accepted, as I think AV13 spam is the perfect counter... but no point on dwelling

I have found myself running Celey back in a guard blob, she seems to be worth more providing fearless and denying slay the warlord than soaking up front these days.

I am also considering taking a page from petre's book and giving SW allies a shot... double JotWW priests in drop pods seems... handy

So I'm coming full circle on an issue that has been on my mind since I first started SoB those several years ago. And that issue is Combi Weapons!

When I first started, I never bothered with Combi Weapons at all for my Sisters. With some advice from Dakka, I revised my position on Combi's and have since taken them on just about every model that can take them.

Now with us thoroughly into 6th Ed., I am once again rethinking the usefulness and opportunity costs of Combi Weapons on all of my squads. The change of wound allocation from 5th to 6th really hurt SoB Special Weapons IMO and along those same lines, Combi Weapons.

Here's what I've noticed so far in my experiences in 6th with Combi's:

On Ret's, when I take Rets, it is almost always a waste of points. I'd rather save 7 points and just take a Stormbolter if anything or just the normal Bolter.

On Doms, Combi Weapons shine. I run the min squad size, so have that 3rd Special Weapon on what is essentially a "suicide" squad has almost always been useful. At the full 10, I could see Combi's being less useful unless it was to fill a gap in the unit's shooting, i.e. a Combi Flamer with 4 MG.

Where I'm still conflicted is on my BSS. I want them to have as much punch as they can, but I can't think of anytime a Combi Weapon on a BSS has done anything noteworthy. I may just need to keep them for now and continue to evaluate their performance with Combi's.

Like on Doms, when/if I run Celestians, I run them min sized and I would run them with a Combi Weapon. Although I'm pretty sure that the last time I ran Celestians was with C:WH...

So I'm back to where I started, but at a slightly different place. Combi Weapons for some, miniature American flags for others.

For the TL;DR, what is your take on Combi Weapon use for the various SoB Sisters Superior that can take them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On that note, another thought that I mentioned demanded further attention in my brain:

How are you guys dealing with 6th Ed. wound allocation and Special Weapons in your SoB squads? Are you all keeping your Flamers and Meltas in the back, thus "denying" vital inches, or are you placing them as far forward as you can to get closer sooner? This is assuming after the vehicle they were in has otherwise been rendered moot.

I find that the "right" place for unique guns in a team is actually in the middle, far enough not to get shot first, close enough to get into range, and not too far back to be easy hit by deepstrike/outfank manuvers

Though I AM a tau player, so with nearly no unique models in squads, my actual experience is based on what gives me trouble, rather then what I do.

Well, rather than combi weapons on my dominion squads, I have been running dual plasma pistols on my sister superior. But, when I do this, I almost always blow myself up, so this means I need to add a simulacrum and an extra sister to soak up wounds. It tends to make this a pricey unit, so I don't do this to every dominion squad. I usually use this as my dedicated terminator / tac marine killers while my immolators and other dominions focus on vehicles.

30 points for two plasmas is crazypants. Would you pay that much for a regular Plasma gun? You're better off spending 10 for a combi-Plasma. You'll get the same effect.

Gunslinger plasmas looks pretty darn cool, though.

Really badly out of place for a sister superior, mind.

At least she can twin-link.

I did the duel plasma pistol thing for a while and loved the extra firepower in my battle sisters squads.. but I realized that I really only ever used it once per game and i couldn't assult anyway because the rest of the sisters were using their bolters (double taping, so not using their pistols). 30 points is a lot so I gave up on the idea and generally go with combi plasma or combi flamer now.

Combiplasma is cheaper and does the same two pistols once per game. So yeah...

If you for some wierd reason are assaulting with sisters (are you playing tau or guard?) Then the pistols are still worse than a combi (giving you the option to double-tap alongside the generic sisters) and a power weapon...

I prefer combi flamers just because of my local meta. I get charged a lot.

I lean towards combi flamers, but mostly because I've got WYSIWYG models for it.

D

Amerikon wrote:
30 points for two plasmas is crazypants. Would you pay that much for a regular Plasma gun? You're better off spending 10 for a combi-Plasma. You'll get the same effect.

Hey, I never said it was the best option.

But, my problem with sisters is around 1800 points, you start running out of cool things to take because of force org restrictions. So, I start putting in things like this to make my dominion squads even more killier. Heck, my friend and I were joking around with a dominion squad that looked like this:

5 Dominions (2 melta guns, simulacrum, 2 plasma pistols on superior)
5 priests with 2 plasma pistols each. (at 75 points per priest!!!!! YIKES!!!!)
Repressor / Rhino

This was a unit that was guaranteed to kill something dead. The only problem was it came in just north of 500 points if I recall correctly.

I wish sisters had more access to plasma guns, but the only one who can take is the confessor. While I am wishing, I REALLY wish the condemnor boltgun was AP2 on the turn it fired. It has so much modelling potential yet seems like so much meh being 15 points for one shot that is AP 5.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 evildrcheese wrote:
I lean towards combi flamers, but mostly because I've got WYSIWYG models for it.

D

This is my other problem. I don;t have combi-plasma modelled. But, I may have to change one of my sisters up just to accomodate this. The more I think about it, my dominion squads usually don't have a long life span. Combi-plasma would make more sense. I am just a fan of the idea of gunslinging.

Yeah the dual pistol look is wicked, it's probably the reason why bought so many seraphim, i just loved the models.

The gunslingers rules are such a huge improvment over the TLing, I remember being very please when I read the rule when 6tg ed came out, I mean who can say to to potentially doubling your damage output.

D

Yea, for some reason I've played an awful lot of guard and tau recently. Generally i'll park my sisters 12 inches away and pour fire into whatever i'm up against until they keel over in a mound of heresy and cleansing bolter fire. That said, if I can wipe a firewarrior unit out by punching them then I will.... depending on supporting fire. I figure its better to take snapshots from a unit or 2 than getting the entire army focusing on me.

Just need to remember that bolters cannot be fired if you plan to assult. I forget and have to sit there far to often for my liking

war wrote:
Just need to remember that bolters cannot be fired if you plan to assult. I forget and have to sit there far to often for my liking

Good thing SOB have bolt pistols.

The key to SOB (in my opinion) is 'She who bails, fails'. I.e. Never get out of your transport. Even better with repressors.

 pretre wrote:

war wrote:
Just need to remember that bolters cannot be fired if you plan to assult. I forget and have to sit there far to often for my liking

Good thing SOB have bolt pistols.

The key to SOB (in my opinion) is 'She who bails, fails'. I.e. Never get out of your transport. Even better with repressors.

I'm currently experimenting with demechanised, maxed BSS squads - meltagun, heavy flamer, combi-flamer and power maul. I still keep some mechanised scoring squads, but so far I've been pleasantly surprised by the survivability and raw dakka of a 20-model power-armoured blob of BS4-and-two-thirds bolters.

Mythal wrote:
I'm currently experimenting with demechanised, maxed BSS squads - meltagun, heavy flamer, combi-flamer and power maul. I still keep some mechanised scoring squads, but so far I've been pleasantly surprised by the survivability and raw dakka of a 20-model power-armoured blob of BS4-and-two-thirds bolters.

The problem is the amount of anti-infantry on the field right now. Plus how spendy those squads are for their killing power.

Interesting though...

Mythal wrote:

 pretre wrote:

war wrote:
Just need to remember that bolters cannot be fired if you plan to assult. I forget and have to sit there far to often for my liking

Good thing SOB have bolt pistols.

The key to SOB (in my opinion) is 'She who bails, fails'. I.e. Never get out of your transport. Even better with repressors.

I'm currently experimenting with demechanised, maxed BSS squads - meltagun, heavy flamer, combi-flamer and power maul. I still keep some mechanised scoring squads, but so far I've been pleasantly surprised by the survivability and raw dakka of a 20-model power-armoured blob of BS4-and-two-thirds bolters.

That's what I've been trying, with 17 models in each squad. It puts out a lot of hurt in one turn. But it always depends on who you're going against and what the mission is.

Hm. Surprised that it works out so well, T3 with a 3+ isn't that durable even with 20 bodies and the threat-range of 24" is hardly anything to write home about. Then there's the fact you have to footslog and the density of special weapons go down...

I do miss H Flamers though and power mauls are great.

D

I have toyed with some larger squads as well. I have found that most of the time my opponent is stuck dealing with dominion squads and exorcists that they are forced to ignore the BSS squads.

 Green is Best! wrote:
I have toyed with some larger squads as well. I have found that most of the time my opponent is stuck dealing with dominion squads and exorcists that they are forced to ignore the BSS squads.

This is what I've discovered, at least against my local players. They get a few turns of bolter broadside to get a lot killing done.

Also, I've sent an e-mail to GW telling them that they don't respect their own products, exemplified by them not even bothering to turn the codex into a downloadable PDF. (Give me the WD codex. I'll use photoshop and have it for you in a day.) I told them that if they continue to ignore my favorite army that I'll go to Warmachine.

Not that I have the faintest shred of faith that they'll listen, because they just don't care, but I figured I should at least tell them.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:
I have toyed with some larger squads as well. I have found that most of the time my opponent is stuck dealing with dominion squads and exorcists that they are forced to ignore the BSS squads.

This is what I've discovered, at least against my local players. They get a few turns of bolter broadside to get a lot killing done.

Also, I've sent an e-mail to GW telling them that they don't respect their own products, exemplified by them not even bothering to turn the codex into a downloadable PDF. (Give me the WD codex. I'll use photoshop and have it for you in a day.) I told them that if they continue to ignore my favorite army that I'll go to Warmachine.

Not that I have the faintest shred of faith that they'll listen, because they just don't care, but I figured I should at least tell them.

The works already been done.
And I'm sure the guy that made it wouldn't mind if they just used it - at least it'd be available.
Maybe if they gave him a sisters army in return.

There's multiple copies of it around.

Most are better made than GW could do.

 pretre wrote:

war wrote:
Just need to remember that bolters cannot be fired if you plan to assult. I forget and have to sit there far to often for my liking

Good thing SOB have bolt pistols.

The key to SOB (in my opinion) is 'She who bails, fails'. I.e. Never get out of your transport. Even better with repressors.

I kind of go by a variant of this. I bail to shoot on certain conditions:

1. If I know I can wipe out/neuter the target with a bailed-out shooting, and there's no immediate reprisal, I'll do it.

2. If I have a spare Rhino in the area that can flat out to give me an ad-hoc wall after I bail and shoot, I'll do it.

I tend to run a very mechanized list (3 rhinos, 2 immos at 2k) and I've found that it is pretty effective. I do run the risk of giving up a First Blood point, sure, but the amount of battlefield control that much mobility gives me usually makes up for it.

So no love with the new forts...

pretre wrote:


Click the links and zoom.

Gah.
Vengeance Weapon Battery - 75 points for an emplaced Punisher that can't be fired by a model. +10 for a Battle Cannon. I was hoping for more.

Firestorm Redoubt - 200 points for 2 Quad LInked Lascannons! Yay. The lascannons only can automated fire. Boo. But they come with a free frogurt! Yay. But the frogurt is cursed. Boo. Firing only at the nearest flyer or MC? Boo.

I feel like my purchases are a waste. :(

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
I kind of go by a variant of this. I bail to shoot on certain conditions:

1. If I know I can wipe out/neuter the target with a bailed-out shooting, and there's no immediate reprisal, I'll do it.

2. If I have a spare Rhino in the area that can flat out to give me an ad-hoc wall after I bail and shoot, I'll do it.

I tend to run a very mechanized list (3 rhinos, 2 immos at 2k) and I've found that it is pretty effective. I do run the risk of giving up a First Blood point, sure, but the amount of battlefield control that much mobility gives me usually makes up for it.

Well sure, but generally if your opponent is competent, there will be reprisal.

My SOB army sits in a glass case waiting for a day when it can be used again.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
My SOB army sits in a glass case waiting for a day when it can be used again.

Umm. You can use it right now. I just played SOB last night and pulled a win against Necrons. (2xCCB, 2xAB, 2xGA,2xNS,5xWraiths)

Sisters are still solid.

They may be solid, but they are boring. The WD hack job book sucked the life out of that army for me. Thus they wait in a glass vault. They may come out as allies to my IG in a future APOC game now that the rules are hours away from release.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
They may be solid, but they are boring. The WD hack job book sucked the life out of that army for me. Thus they wait in a glass vault. They may come out as allies to my IG in a future APOC game now that the rules are hours away from release.

I can't change your mind or your opinions, but this is just flat out wrong.

Sisters are a lot more than just immo spam (C:WH's build of choice). I've been running a variety of build recently and they have been great. My AV13 spam was hilarious last night.

 pretre wrote:


Well sure, but generally if your opponent is competent, there will be reprisal.

Sucks to hear about the terrain, though I can't say I'm overly surprised. Even I know that there is a lot of potential to do some crazy stuff with that Punisher cannon if you could man it.

And yes, you're right about reprisal, though that gets into the back-and-forth of a given game. A lot comes down to placing the Rhino before or after disembarkation to either give cover or block LOS, as well as how the rest of my army moves and presents itself as a threat. For example, a Sister squad jumping out to rapid fire down some tatter of an enemy unit is less likely to get reprisal if a Dom squad is on the far flank, raising hell in their own special way, or a Seraphim squad slams down next to his other units.

in spite of not being able to use Rets on the punisher cannon, the battle cannon option may be useful. Nothing in the SoB book gives blast (aside from grenades) so maybe it could be useful for that.

war wrote:
in spite of not being able to use Rets on the punisher cannon, the battle cannon option may be useful. Nothing in the SoB book gives blast (aside from grenades) so maybe it could be useful for that.

Yeah and BS2 doesn't really hurt it. Is it worth giving up a bastion or aegis though?

Not sure, and the other side of the coin is that its always going to be shooting at the closest target. A good opponent will know how to mitigate losses from it... also at BS 2 an AP 3 weapon has the potential to wipe SoB on a poor scatter roll. I'm still trying to decide if it is worth while

Thanks for the information Pretre

However, I must admit that the "Batterie Vengeance" confuse me a little. (seriously, is the french translation really as bad as I think it is? )

It says that it can attacks and be attacked even if it is unoccupied... Does that means that units can go inside as a normal building? Or it is just a bad case of copy-paste of the "Sentry Defense System" universal rule?

If it cannot be manned, it is a great lost for some sister cheese, but at least, it put the Vengence battery as useful for all the armies that can use it. Orks using it with BS2 while sisters could use it with BS4 + Rending at 75pts for both of them would just be bad game-design IMHO (I know, but it's not because that it's already been made with the bastion that it was good game-design originally! )

 pretre wrote:
So no love with the new forts...

pretre wrote:Gah.
Vengeance Weapon Battery - 75 points for an emplaced Punisher that can't be fired by a model. +10 for a Battle Cannon. I was hoping for more.

What's the justification for "can't be fired by a model"? It looks like the rules say that it has an automated fire mode, which seems to imply that it has a non-automated fire mode, right?

It is an impassable building. Emplaced weapons can only be fired by occupants of the building.

Amerikon wrote:

 pretre wrote:
So no love with the new forts...

pretre wrote:Gah. Vengeance Weapon Battery - 75 points for an emplaced Punisher that can't be fired by a model. +10 for a Battle Cannon. I was hoping for more.

What's the justification for "can't be fired by a model"? It looks like the rules say that it has an automated fire mode, which seems to imply that it has a non-automated fire mode, right?

pretre wrote:It is an impassable building. Emplaced weapons can only be fired by occupants of the building.

With no entry points.
If it did, I could have still stuck an Ethereal in there to fire the gun.

I'm actually tempted to not open it, and trade it in for something else now...

I'd say they got some potential, except not for IG (who has the most obvious icongraphy)
Sisters can use the cannons they have little in terms of AP3 OR ranged bombardment, some of the more "ranged lacking" SM could too.

As they are set to only automatic, nids can make quite good use of them without penalties for being nids (just convert it to look more...nid...)

Don't know about others though, these are nice, but not "omgwtfbbq" as some suspected. most armies CAN use them, but also can not to.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Sisters can use the cannons they have little in terms of AP3 OR ranged bombardment, some of the more "ranged lacking" SM could too.

Except they shoot at the closest target. Which really doesn't help a lot.

As they are set to only automatic, nids can make quite good use of them without penalties for being nids (just convert it to look more...nid...)

This is good for nids.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I'd say they got some potential, except not for IG (who has the most obvious icongraphy)
Sisters can use the cannons they have little in terms of AP3 OR ranged bombardment, some of the more "ranged lacking" SM could too.

As they are set to only automatic, nids can make quite good use of them without penalties for being nids (just convert it to look more...nid...)

Don't know about others though, these are nice, but not "omgwtfbbq" as some suspected. most armies CAN use them, but also can not to.

My problem is, for the Vengeance Weapons Battery that I preordered, it's 75-85pts for 6-7 Str5 hits (that can be completely nullified by having something AV12 closer than other enemy units), or a not entirely reliable battle cannon, that can't really hide anything behind.

So it goes from 32-52 Str5 rending shots for Retributors (with 1-2 Batteries), or 64-112 for 2 Ethereals + 2 squads of Firewarriors, to 40 shots, that'll put out 12-14 hits a turn on average, for 150pts.

The sad part is, the emplacement is modeled with an access point, which is why I preordered it in the first place.

well, I am extremely disappointed with these rules at this point.

I had hunch to wait before pre-ordering, but I let myself be swayed and purchased on.

Considering there is absolutely no formations for sisters in the Apocalypse book I was hoping this would be our golden ticket.

Ill either trade it in at that point or build a second Leviathan and use those parts to get it to throw a ton of dices at my opponents..

Man this sucks, I was totally willing to drop some cash on this kits, but thankfully waited for the rules to leak..

Nevermind. Makes me laugh that GW manage to stop me from opening my wallet when genuinely like to make some hobby purchases..

D

Not one Sister-specific formation, asset or thing in the new Apocalypse.

feth you, GW.

Apocalypse launch day today at my local games workshop.

3 of us on one side and 5 on the other side.

I entered on the second turn to allow some stuff to die in order to clear room on the board.

Brought 2000 points of sisters which basically did almost nothing. Only 3 Exorcists and 2 Immolators even partook in the fight.

My Leviathan, Stormlord and 2 Baneblades however accounted for 7 Blood Thirsters, 20ish terminators and quite a lot of marines over turn 2 and 3.

We won in the end by 1 points... first blood... and how did we get it? Ilic Nightspear infiltrating in a booby trapped building and blowing himself up.

D weapons are incredibly powerful against... everything. I find them near cheese and would not play them unless it's on a model that costs 1000 points or more.

Voldrak wrote:
Apocalypse launch day today at my local games workshop.

3 of us on one side and 5 on the other side.

I entered on the second turn to allow some stuff to die in order to clear room on the board.

Brought 2000 points of sisters which basically did almost nothing. Only 3 Exorcists and 2 Immolators even partook in the fight.

My Leviathan, Stormlord and 2 Baneblades however accounted for 7 Blood Thirsters, 20ish terminators and quite a lot of marines over turn 2 and 3.
U
We won in the end by 1 points... first blood... and how did we get it? Ilic Nightspear infiltrating in a booby trapped building and blowing himself up.

D weapons are incredibly powerful against... everything. I find them near cheese and would not play them unless it's on a model that costs 1000 points or more.

D Weapons are prety cheap too though 120pts for a Str D, AP2 Hellstorm weapon...

 curran12 wrote:
Not one Sister-specific formation, asset or thing in the new Apocalypse.

feth you, GW.

Thus is bad news that worries me greatly. I felt quite comfortable after seeing the pages dedicated to OB in the big 6th ed rulebook,but zero coverage in the biggest 40kexpansion does leave my worried about my first and favourite army. Let's hope my fears aren't justified.

D

I'm holding out hope to see something in the pandorax supplement

Thoughts on home made sisters formations?

Exorcism Squadron: 3+ exorcists, gains +1 missile shot per tank. I thus three tanks are 3d6+3 at a given target. Also 36" Fearless bubble for SOB only.

Fiendish Penance: 3+ PE engines, gain It Will Not Die, 12" movement, ignores cover.

Hymn on High: St Celestine, 3+ Seraphim, Cannoness, Command Squad. The command squad provides a 24" no mishap bubble and the cannoness can mark a target, all Seraphim count as two linked. Celestines Fearless becomes a 12" bubble and makes Seraphim 5++.

The SoB do have information in the book, just no specific formations. That's better than nothing from a 'they didn't forget us' standpoint.

I'm thinking if hijacking the Necron Transcended C'Tan as a Transcended Living Saint.

 TheKbob wrote:
Thoughts on home made sisters formations?

Exorcism Squadron: 3+ exorcists, gains +1 missile shot per tank. I thus three tanks are 3d6+3 at a given target. Also 36" Fearless bubble for SOB only.

Fiendish Penance: 3+ PE engines, gain It Will Not Die, 12" movement, ignores cover.

Hymn on High: St Celestine, 3+ Seraphim, Cannoness, Command Squad. The command squad provides a 24" no mishap bubble and the cannoness can mark a target, all Seraphim count as two linked. Celestines Fearless becomes a 12" bubble and makes Seraphim 5++.

I was thinking about this, while talking to my friend who plays SoB and griping about the lack of formations. Thought I'd check this thread before starting one over in the homebrew rules section.

My thought for the exorcists was to use the apoc. barrage template. Basically let the squad fire together as a S8, AP1, Heavy X, apoc barrage. shot, where X is the number of tanks in the squadron.

And there needs to be something to boost faith points. Either a strategic asset, or every SoB apoc formation granting an extra d6, or something to help with the lack of scaling.

Other formations that need to exists:
Some sort of HQ formation
Something that utilizes the hellstorm flamer template (immolator squad?)
A -real- decent of angels formation (Celestine+seraphim)

 pretre wrote:
The SoB do have information in the book, just no specific formations. That's better than nothing from a 'they didn't forget us' standpoint.

Ah, I didn't realise that. At least there's something then. I plan to puck up the Apoc book at somepoint, but not in a huge rush to see it.

D

 pretre wrote:
The SoB do have information in the book, just no specific formations. That's better than nothing from a 'they didn't forget us' standpoint.

any new or interesting info? thanks

 Mr Morden wrote:

 pretre wrote:
The SoB do have information in the book, just no specific formations. That's better than nothing from a 'they didn't forget us' standpoint.

any new or interesting info? thanks

No, I mean they are included in the rules. Like X thing can be taken by IG, SM or SOB. I don't have the book so can't say on fluff.

I have the book and it looks good overall.
If any of you have questions, fire away, I'll answer best I can.

I'll also run up some sisters formations and such tonight.

Thanks Ovion

Does it actaully mention any SOB fluff - what cool things can they take which are new / Apoocaplyse.

Maybe with sisters not having much of a showing is because they figure the amount of faith points generated in an apoc. game would be insane!

Why - its not related to your army size? you get D6 full stop.

Now a formation that generated more would make sense..........

 Talizvar wrote:
Maybe with sisters not having much of a showing is because they figure the amount of faith points generated in an apoc. game would be insane!

I assume you mean 'too low' kind of insane? A flat D6 just ian't enough for the army past 1500 pts and even it's pushing it. D3 per 500 points would make sense to a certain degree but considering some tournaments run points levels that would be non-divisabe with that system (I'm looking at you 1850), it wouldn't reakly work out anyway.

D

I can't change your mind or your opinions, but this is just flat out wrong.

My opinion is my own...thus not wrong.

Sisters are a lot more than just immo spam (C:WH's build of choice). I've been running a variety of build recently and they have been great. My AV13 spam was hilarious last night.

I don't even run immo spam in my SOB army. The most I've used is 3 for my dominions.The army is boring. Period. One troop choice. Celestians being a shell of their former selves and essentially auto take HQ characters that overshadow a basic canoness. The loss of a jump pack option for a canoness. The chance for GW to make seldom taken units better, but utterly failed. I could go on, but what's the point? While the army has potential to be effective...in doing so it's effectively boring..LOL.

Thoughts on home made sisters formations?

The two that exist previously aren't bad.

Personally, I'd like to see a penitent engine formation, a retributor formation, or a formation that allows repentia to infiltrate. :shrug:

How about 50 repentia blob "Holy Furvor" and they get to run with fleet and assault with scout move. Possibly 5++ invul since they believe so much more?

 evildrcheese wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Maybe with sisters not having much of a showing is because they figure the amount of faith points generated in an apoc. game would be insane!

I assume you mean 'too low' kind of insane? A flat D6 just ian't enough for the army past 1500 pts and even it's pushing it. D3 per 500 points would make sense to a certain degree but considering some tournaments run points levels that would be non-divisabe with that system (I'm looking at you 1850), it wouldn't reakly work out anyway.D

Are you not able to go above the initial D6 as units die or some of the units add faith points?
I do not play them but thought I knew enough about where some of the points came from.
Obviously not...

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
I don't even run immo spam in my SOB army. The most I've used is 3 for my dominions.The army is boring. Period. One troop choice. Celestians being a shell of their former selves and essentially auto take HQ characters that overshadow a basic canoness. The loss of a jump pack option for a canoness. The chance for GW to make seldom taken units better, but utterly failed. I could go on, but what's the point? While the army has potential to be effective...in doing so it's effectively boring..LOL.

We haven't had two troop choices since Codex: Chapter Approved (Redemptionists). Unless you're missing inquisition, in which case you lost nothing since you can ally them in and they were never SoB anyways. As for choice in HQs? C:WH was Jump-Pack Canoness, period. One effective choice. No different than now. The difference now is that we have three effective HQs instead of either Jump-Pack Canoness or cheapest possible palantine.

Keep perspective.

We haven't had two troop choices since Codex: Chapter Approved (Redemptionists). Unless you're missing inquisition, in which case you lost nothing since you can ally them in and they were never SoB anyways.

You missed my point. One Troops choice STILL. GW had the opportunity to add more and they didn't.

As for choice in HQs? C:WH was Jump-Pack Canoness, period. One effective choice.

Canoness on foot with celestians via a LR was effective as well.

No different than now. The difference now is that we have three effective HQs instead of either Jump-Pack Canoness or cheapest possible palantine.

Sorry, I like making my own HQ characters..not having to be shackled by taking a Special Character just to be effective. If given the choice...I'd rather have a character I can build effectively, vs. the point and click special character who you have to take or overshadows all other choice in the book. The wargear list was sad as feth...in the WD update...one column. No Cloak, no mantle...nothing interesting...but greatly boring.

Keep perspective.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
You missed my point. One Troops choice STILL. GW had the opportunity to add more and they didn't.

Sure, they could have added a lot to the codex. I will totally give you that.

As for choice in HQs? C:WH was Jump-Pack Canoness, period. One effective choice.

Canoness on foot with celestians via a LR was effective as well.

Really? Because I never saw or heard of that build. And the Land Raider was inquisition.

Sorry, I like making my own HQ characters..not having to be shackled by taking a Special Character just to be effective. If given the choice...I'd rather have a character I can build effectively, vs. the point and click special character who you have to take or overshadows all other choice in the book. The wargear list was sad as feth...in the WD update...one column. No Cloak, no mantle...nothing interesting...but greatly boring.

Fair enough. You like to build. I think that the Jump Pack builds were boring because they were point and click and the same canoness for everyone. YMMV.

Either way, I agree that they could have done more to the book. No one is arguing that the WD codex is the best they could have done. It is far from boring, however. I've played through a lot of editions of SOB and, for me, this is the most fun and most variety since Codex Chapter Approved.

Well, they limited the army to 1 viable build, but at least they made it a fun and rather effective one

What's the one viable build?

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, they limited the army to 1 viable build, but at least they made it a fun and rather effective one

Really? Because I've played a lot more than one viable build out of the new WD dex.

There's immo spam. Walking sisters with Penitents. Mixed Mech. Allies bring in a ton of builds including Celes-Jaco-blob. Forgeworld brings in AV13 spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheKbob wrote:
What's the one viable build?

He is ill informed.

I play heavy mech. Building a foot sisters list would require finding another army to buy! I have three PEs myself.

A guard blob with all those bonus, lol. I don't think it'd be effective, though.

 TheKbob wrote:
I play heavy mech. Building a foot sisters list would require finding another army to buy! I have three PEs myself.

A guard blob with all those bonus, lol. I don't think it'd be effective, though.

I have run guard blob with sisters, something like this was VERY effective:

Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Flamer, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino (Search)
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Multi-Melta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino (Search)
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors x6, 4 HB
Bastion with Quad-Gun
Primaris
PCS with 3 Flamers
4 x Infantry with Power Axe/MB, Autocannon
Vendetta
Manticore

Celestine, Primaris and Jacobus into the blob.

I was under the impression that the only noteworthy -pure- sisters army is celectin, 2-4 BSS, 2 exors, HB rets, and and mix of dominos/sephs. (number of BSS, dominos/sephs and what cars are around depends on point value)

 BoomWolf wrote:
I was under the impression that the only noteworthy -pure- sisters army is celectin, 2-4 BSS, 2 exors, HB rets, and and mix of dominos/sephs. (number of BSS, dominos/sephs and what cars are around depends on point value)

Well, -pure- now has three builds: Foot, Mech and Mixed Mech

As for 2-4 BSS that is just the way it goes.

The variants I see:
- Seraphim and Celestine.
- Mech with Doms and Exos
- Foot with Rets and Kyrinov
- Rets and Bastion

And, of course, Forgeworld just made AV13 spam possible.

The only 'required' units at this point are BSS. Other than that, you have 2-3 choices in every slot.

 pretre wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I play heavy mech. Building a foot sisters list would require finding another army to buy! I have three PEs myself.

A guard blob with all those bonus, lol. I don't think it'd be effective, though.

I have run guard blob with sisters, something like this was VERY effective:

Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Flamer, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino (Search)
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Multi-Melta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino (Search)
Exorcist
Exorcist
Retributors x6, 4 HB
Bastion with Quad-Gun
Primaris
PCS with 3 Flamers
4 x Infantry with Power Axe/MB, Autocannon
Vendetta
Manticore

Celestine, Primaris and Jacobus into the blob.

I fought this. It held up pretty well. MY St. Celestine just wouldn't wake up, which was pretty much the game right there, but it fights well.

And even though I've only got to try it against a fairly horrible Elysian List (7 flyers! 7!) so far,
Celestine+Seraphim,
3x 9 Repentia
2-4 BSS (w/ Heavy Bolter),
3x3 Penitent Engines
Has stood its own... and people I try to get a test game against it with seem scared to.

I've been toying with a similar idea. Does it preform well then? the repentia/penetint engine spam?

I really wish that there was a character that could make repentia troop choices. They're silly expensive for how fast they die and they become somewhat meaningless because they're elite.

Course i'd also like immolators to be fast or have torrent... and scouting penetent engines with AV13 in the front, but I don't like to be greedy.

war wrote:
I've been toying with a similar idea. Does it preform well then? the repentia/penetint engine spam?

I really wish that there was a character that could make repentia troop choices. They're silly expensive for how fast they die and they become somewhat meaningless because they're elite.

Course i'd also like immolators to be fast or have torrent... and scouting penetent engines with AV13 in the front, but I don't like to be greedy.

Considering it was facing a list where it couldn't hurt 7 of the units, it did pretty well.
The Repentia / Penitents just owned the field - nothing left, and even managed to take out 2 flyers.

On paper, Celestine + 5 Seraphim, 2 squads of Repentia and 3 units of Penitent Engines charging at the enemy is going to give something a headache, and dealing with 9 vehicles ramming down your throat isn't that easy either.
Then sitting the 2-4 BSS back / on objectives with 1 squad of Repentia (for counterassaulting / deterring deepstrikers / outflank), seems like a good plan.

So on paper, you have a solid core of objective holders with defenders, and you have 6 high priority threats coming at you to rape face.

I don't like the HB rets. They have never done enough for me and are too static. I run the HF rets and they have been doing rockstar for me and fits with an all in sisters list. This is my list soon:

Celestine

BSS (flamer, flamer, Rhino)
BSS (flamer, flamer, Rhino)

Dominion (melta, melta, combi-melta, TLMM Immolator)
Seraphim (2x Two Hand Flamers, 10 girls)
Seraphim (2x Two Hand Flamers, 5 girls)

2x Exorcist
Retributors (4x Heavy Flamer, Simalcrum, Rhino, 8 girls)

Company Command (4x Flamer)

Veterans (3x Melta, chimera)

Vendetta

Yeah, but how many points is that one squad of Rets?

A lot. Much better than a static unit and it's a great answer to terminators . I have never had the heavy bolters do anything significant outside man a pop gun on the sticks and slats. And I feel being static doesn't play well for sisters.

I guess the only thing I'd do differently would be three exorcists or two plus three PEs.

 TheKbob wrote:
A lot. Much better than a static unit and it's a great answer to terminators . I have never had the heavy bolters do anything significant outside man a pop gun on the sticks and slats. And I feel being static doesn't play well for sisters.

I guess the only thing I'd do differently would be three exorcists or two plus three PEs.

I used to love the Easy Bake oven, but it just isn't cost effective anymore.

Okay, so let's take a look at two units:
Retributors (4x Heavy Flamer, Simalcrum, Rhino, 8 girls) - 236

vs

Retributors (4x HB, Simulacrum) - 105 + Bastion with Quad (125) - 230

Yes, your squad works against Terms, if they get there and if they don't get popped. Let's say you get 4 hits a template. That's 16 hits. 8 Wounds and 2.66 Rends. You kill maybe 2-3 Terminators. Your squad had to disembark in front of them to fire all 4 templates. Ouch.

Now my squad. Let's assume I can only fire 2 extra heavy bolters. So I am firing 18 Heavy bolter shots. 12 Hit. 2 Rends. 6 Wounds. I kill, you guessed it, 2-3 terminators. I am safe in an AV14 bunker, and I have anti-flyer if I put another squad on the roof. Plus, the HB rets can threaten other targets at distance including flyers (albeit not well) and light vehicles.

Sure, you don't want to be static, but something has to guard your objective. You have the rest of the army to be aggressive.

edit: Also, if the HB rets fail their faith check (25% chance most of the time) they are okay. If the Flamer rets fail, they have just completely failed you for the battle since they don't generally live to get a second try.

I've had some success with HB Rets. The rending is sorta hit or miss, but it gives enough punch against vehicles at range that it can pay off in a fairly big way.

that and they can do all right against terminators from time to time. more shots at the enemy is always nice.

I haven't done the heavy flamer rets squad due to price tag and also if they lose their rhino they become far less useful. anything with a template weapon needs to be able to move 12' a turn to get decent shots as far as i'm concerned. That said, I like penitent engines for the amount of kill they can dish out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Your really quite taken with the bastion aren't you. Idk, it seems like a decent deal to some degree but have you ever been charged out of it or have it fall on your head?

One thing that makes me want to use the HF Rets more is the fact that there are more and more tau and eldar players now, with mostly worse than 3+ saves. The heavy flamer makes mince meat of them, especially when they are sticking behind terrain to take advantage of things such as jump-shoot-jump or run-and-shoot. If you are able to use the repressor then it makes the HF rets more useable as they are much more likely to get into range of what they want to kill. Moving flat out in the first turn their full distance and counting on their front AV13 to protect them, or intervening cover. Next turn you jump them forward another 6 inches, disembark full distance and flame what ever you want to.

I know this is very very expensive, - 7 x rets with 4x HF, and Repressor - 244pts. (No need for simulacrum, if you get rending its a bonus, but its not required at all)

But if you theme an army around it, it might work for instance:

Celestine
2 x 5 Repentia
2 x 10 BS with HB in rhino
3 x 7 man Rets with 4 x HF in Repressors
3 x 6 Seraphim with 2x2 Hand Flamers and Melta bombs
ADL - Naked (im sure i can find enough point for a quad gun)

About 1850 give or take 20 points. At 2k id add another BSS squad

The basic idea is run the Repressors Forward towards the enemy troops choices, or most concentrated group of infantry. Let the Repentia nick the rhinos of the BSS and run them directly behind the repressors.
The seraphims jump along beside them as well, going for another 1 or 2 enemy infantry choices.

The BSS sit back behind ADL and hold objectives and stay alive or ad fire support to anything in range.

Once into the enemy lines the HF, hand flamers and repressors can start burninating and the repentia can start popping any armour hanging around too.

Its a big gamble as you are just hoping the repressors dont get too screwed too early. Bright lances/dark lances will be a problem. But if you play it super aggressive then you hope that the sheer amount of targets that your enemy would need to kill will overwhelm them. All enemy troop choices would be in trouble just from the sheer amount of wounds you can dish at close range, and the lack of cover saves.

Its definitely not points efficient, but would be fun to play i reckon.

I think ill give it a go at the weekend and see what happens.

 scrunty wrote:

Its definitely not points efficient, but would be fun to play i reckon.

I think ill give it a go at the weekend and see what happens.

Fun? Cool. I just think that points efficiency is one of the things we have going for us.

I agree with you, hence Celestine and the Seraphim.

Im just looking at other ways of using them and the other units we have at our disposal in more useful/different ways. I know SoB are generally not seen that often but playing the same list over again and across every SoB list there is cannot be useful in the long run as people will know what to expect. Granted this may take some time, but with the groups i play with they are getting wise to the tricks the SoB can pull and therefore finding different ways to use them is always useful....

 scrunty wrote:
I agree with you, hence Celestine and the Seraphim.

Im just looking at other ways of using them and the other units we have at our disposal in more useful/different ways. I know SoB are generally not seen that often but playing the same list over again and across every SoB list there is cannot be useful in the long run as people will know what to expect. Granted this may take some time, but with the groups i play with they are getting wise to the tricks the SoB can pull and therefore finding different ways to use them is always useful....

I am not saying to play the same list again and again. I vocally post a number of different lists on here and other places. I just don't think playing the least efficient units is going to surprise anyone other than with how many points you put into an ineffective unit.

Well, speaking of different lists, I am trying to change things up. I am actually thinking of running this at the next 1850 list. Feedback is always welcome:

St. Celestine
BSS (Multi-melta, Flamer)
BSS (HB, Flamer)
Dominion (2MG, Combi-Plasma, TL MM Imm w/ SL)
Dominion (2MG, Combi-Plasma, TL MM Imm w/ SL)
Dominion (2MG, Plasma Pistol, TL MM Imm w/ SL)
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
ADL w/ Quad Gun

Coteaz
3 Servitors w/ MM
6 Acolytes (3 plasma, 3 hot shot) w/ razorback (psybolt, storm bolter, SL)
Vindicare Assassin

Main reason I am taking coteaz is to help with flyers. Most smart players will just stay out of his threat bubble of I've been expecting you, but if I place it right, it could hopefully keep my exorcists protected for an extra turn. But, Coteaz would be on the quad-gun and I would fully abuse the heck out of his rule against the one list I currently despise (necron air force - fight cheese with cheese).

And, with it being an inquisitor themed list, it is still semi-fluffy.

While I do have 4 troops choices, my GK troops are flimsy at best. But, everything in this list has AP3 or better, so hopefully it is still killy.

I would swap the Aegis for a Bastion with Icarus to put Coteaz on top of. Then put Rets instead of a Exo inside. Also, why a PP?

Mostly that's just nit-picking though. Looks fun.

Plasma pistol is because I only have two combi-plasma's modelled.

I am pretty thin on points as it is, switching to a bastion would probably force me to scrap either a dominion squad or the acolytes (which could probably go). However, I REALLY wanted to be on the giving end of psybolt ammunition for a change.

Except for tournaments I have not played the same list twice with my sisters and my win/lose ratio is pretty solid.

My only auto include to data have been Celestine and 5-7 Seraphims as an escort unit, but after that I have always played different lists in one way or another.

I have been wanting to try Penitent Engine and Repentia spam, but only having two engines and them being, not only expensive, but a massive annoyance to build up, has deterred me so far.

Have anyone had any success with 9 Penitent Engines and 16-30 Repentias walking up? I would love to read a battle report with someone playing this.

Here's the list I would love to try for 1850 and you have spare points for gear upgrades

Celestine

3 x 7 Repentias squads

2 x 10 sisters of battle with repressors

1 x dominions in immolator

3 x 3 Penitent Engines


Very simple in your face list. Sisters lend their Repressors to two Reptentia squads that will flat out on turn one. Celestine accompanies last repentias to take shots for them. Anything that can ignore her armors gets LoS. Dominions scout forward.

The strategy is to hope to have your opponent shoot at the dominions, which are hopefully in cover, and you want this since they are a decoy. If not, then he will likely shoot at Celestine, if they know what she can do, and she will be doing her job as a decoy as well.

Turns 2 you should have nearly all your forces threatening to assault and once they do, it should be devastating enough.

I've tried that list, or near enough:
Celestine + Seraphim
2x BSS in Rhinos
2x 10 Repentia
3x3 Penitent Engines

Sadly, the PE and Repentia are just too fragile. it worked against some lists/with some terrain setups, but usually the penitent engines would get smacked quick by fire and the repentia would chew up some unit and then get shot.

Marines (with grenades and striking first) make the PE weep.

Heavy Flamer Retributors are very awesome.

Sometimes you don't want there to be any chance of survival. Period.

How many times in a game have you cursed to the gawdfs when your rolls to hit were...subpar? When you had a unit dead to rights but they just wouldn't go down with the number of shots?

Almost never a problem

with the easy bake over as you call it. You're catching 5-6 models in the teardrop, Four of them plus the Combi if you go that route. I mean that is a TON of HITS. And now its STR 5 and Rending? Oofta. Very scary indeed.

I use them to trail behind the rest of the force and they make GREAt goalies. People are so scared of getting hit with them that they wont dare break my lines until they are SURE the Retributors are done for and that takes effort since they are in a rhino til needed. Takes two or three rounds sometimes to kill em off and thats a lot of lost time.

The rest of the list ultimately determines if its a good or a bad thing to take them, but man... they are really really good at area denial and are not to be trifles with if you enjoy life.

The "problem" I have with the Easy-bake Oven is that for the same cost I could get two Exorcists. In most cases, I'd rather have the Exorcists over the HF Rets. Besides, that's what I have Doms and Seraphim for and they do a much better job of it point for point IMO.

well, preference is one thing, but utility another. My guess is if you could see into the future and know that your Exorcists would fire a mere 4 shots before being destroyed, whereas the late game flamination of the Retributers would reduce a pair of units to a pile of ash, you might well favor the Retributors. Of course, we can never know what the opponent or terrain will do to us, nor can we know how many shots the Exorcist will fire, nor how capable the enemy will be at silencing them. All we know is that in a list with X,Y and Z, the Heavy Flamers are devastatingly effective even IF the Exorcists would also be. So the question really is: do you play with X,Y and Z or not?