Anyway, I can see some potential to a mass Taurox charge with Scions. Move 12" on turn one, straight in to cover, and fire the weapons. Next turn you can move up and hop out, hopefully in to rapid fire range of something. If you do it with enough units it could work. The side doors of the Taurox are going to be a major advantage over the Chimera, as it gives you a bit of extra reach when dismounting. That is one of the biggest drawbacks of the Chimera, the limited access point has screwed me on more than one occasion.
General Hobbs wrote: According to the White Dwarf article, the Taurox has 2 mag plates underneath it hat help lift it off the ground while going at high speeds.
...
Please tell me you're joking about this.
It's not. Page 30 shows off the part in question.
The best part is that magnets don't work that way. You would have to magnetize the substance underneath it for it to work.
fething Magnets, how do they work?!
Sorry, I just couldn't resist dropping that old meme.
Isn't there a sci-fi trope that hovercraft work by using a planet's magnetic field to levitate off the ground? I might be using fuzzy FASA-physics from my Battletech days, but maybe that is how GW justifies the mag pads under the Taurox.
alphaecho wrote: Warhammer 40 000. Science fiction or science fact?
Yeah, but there still has to be a basis of reality. If a grav plate works like a magnet, then it can't suddenly do magic anti-grav. The universe can have ridiculously implausible stuff, but it has to be consistent to the rules it makes up.
Mag plates sound like they use magnetism or electro-magnetism to make things fly.
Anti-gravitics use some other magical force to reduce the effects of gravity on an object.
alphaecho wrote: Warhammer 40 000. Science fiction or science fact?
Yeah, but there still has to be a basis of reality. If a grav plate works like a magnet, then it can't suddenly do magic anti-grav. The universe can have ridiculously implausible stuff, but it has to be consistent to the rules it makes up.
Once I got my head around genetically engineered superhumans using the warp and holes in space to gad about in the name of an immortal corpse-god, the fiction that a "mag plate" could help a four tracked brick go fast doesn't phase me.
Now a hovering 1944 Sherman in a Bolt Action game would freak me out
Kanluwen wrote: ... and a blatant ripoff of the Vulture Gunship.
You keep saying this, but it really doesn't matter how many times you say it because it will never be true. The Vulture is a gunship. It flies around shooting things. The Vendetta is an up-gunned transport, something the Vulture is not.
Don't worry everyone, we'll get a full explanation next month when they sell us a $50.00 book, Codex: Mag Plates. Add mag plates to any imperial vehicle, with desperate mag plates to Tau and Eldar.
MWHistorian wrote: Why does GW suddenly have the habit of removing options from codexes? Or is this a "maybe they'll be in a later data slate if we get around to it" kind of situation?
Yup. "Armoured Sentinel Company" dataslate incoming no doubt.
Bull0 wrote: All of this is assuming that piece is actually meant to rotate. I'm not convinced.
Assuming that a ---turret--- is meant to rotate? MADNESS!
Kanluwen wrote: ... and a blatant ripoff of the Vulture Gunship.
You keep saying this, but it really doesn't matter how many times you say it because it will never be true. The Vulture is a gunship. It flies around shooting things. The Vendetta is an up-gunned transport, something the Vulture is not.
The fact that the unit entry is the "Vendetta Gunship Squadron" begs to differ with you, HBMC.
Kanluwen wrote: ... and a blatant ripoff of the Vulture Gunship.
You keep saying this, but it really doesn't matter how many times you say it because it will never be true. The Vulture is a gunship. It flies around shooting things. The Vendetta is an up-gunned transport, something the Vulture is not.
The fact that the unit entry is the "Vendetta Gunship Squadron" begs to differ with you, HBMC.
Calling it a Vulture Gunship rip off is still completely wrong. The Vulture has mixed weapon loadouts unless its fielding TL Punishers or 4 MRP's (both anti infantry weapons) whereas the Vendetta is a pure tank hunter.
The Vulture is seemingly designed to hover around a target and pulverise it with fire (this is represented by it having the Vector Dancer rule and its unique shape) while the Vendetta is capable of this to a lesser extent, possibly just so it can land full stop and disgorge its cargo. The Vulture doesn't carry infantry, it purely exists for the purpose of fire support.
In gameplay terms, the Vulture is never a particularly good dedicated tank hunter/MC wound shaver.
This is just as wrong as the arse speak when you claimed the 2nd ed models being moved was recent enough to be relevant.
Bull0 wrote: All of this is assuming that piece is actually meant to rotate. I'm not convinced.
Assuming that a ---turret--- is meant to rotate? MADNESS!
Unthinkable, right? Oh, wait (I know that's not exactly bulletproof but there are a ton of examples there of guns mounted on raised turret-like constructions that don't rotate. Also, in classic fashion, your joke only works by taking that line, and removing my lines that qualified it - that a non-rotating gun mount is just as silly as one that's meant to rotate but can't.)
Also, can someone explain how a GW model being a "rip off" of a FW model is a problem?
Bull0 wrote: All of this is assuming that piece is actually meant to rotate. I'm not convinced.
Assuming that a ---turret--- is meant to rotate? MADNESS!
Unthinkable, right? Oh, wait (I know that's not exactly bulletproof but there are a ton of examples there of guns mounted on raised turret-like constructions that don't rotate. Also, in classic fashion, your joke only works by taking that line, and removing my lines that qualified it - that a non-rotating gun mount is just as silly as one that's meant to rotate but can't.)
Also, can someone explain how a GW model being a "rip off" of a FW model is a problem?
From the second link, since most of your images were of turrets that could, in fact, move. The rest were from vehicles without turrets. Amazing.
A gun turret is a weapon mount that protects the crew or mechanism of a projectile-firing weapon and at the same time lets the weapon be aimed and fired in many directions. The turret is also a rotating weapon platform.
Kanluwen wrote: ... and a blatant ripoff of the Vulture Gunship.
You keep saying this, but it really doesn't matter how many times you say it because it will never be true. The Vulture is a gunship. It flies around shooting things. The Vendetta is an up-gunned transport, something the Vulture is not.
The fact that the unit entry is the "Vendetta Gunship Squadron" begs to differ with you, HBMC.
Calling it a Vulture Gunship rip off is still completely wrong. The Vulture has mixed weapon loadouts unless its fielding TL Punishers or 4 MRP's (both anti infantry weapons) whereas the Vendetta is a pure tank hunter.
It's a lazy creation of Robin Cruddace. The Vulture has "mixed weapon loadouts" but again, it was to be the dedicated airborne gunship. The Vendetta was just lazy lazy lazy LAZY. It clearly was intended to be something like the Vulture, but then LAZY LAZY LAZY got into it.
The Vulture is seemingly designed to hover around a target and pulverise it with fire (this is represented by it having the Vector Dancer rule and its unique shape) while the Vendetta is capable of this to a lesser extent, possibly just so it can land full stop and disgorge its cargo. The Vulture doesn't carry infantry, it purely exists for the purpose of fire support.
Yeah, and according to the description...
"Multiple lascannon hard points allow the Vendetta to function as a dedicated gunship, often formed into roving search-and-destroy wings that hunt enemy battle tank formations."
Dollars to donuts the Vendetta was not going to have transport capacity and was going to get some kind of different body, but then the design team cheaped out and just added lascannons to it.
Kanluwen wrote: The fact that the unit entry is the "Vendetta Gunship Squadron" begs to differ with you, HBMC.
Semantics. It's a transport. Neither one replaces the other one.
Kanluwen wrote: It's a lazy creation of Robin Cruddace. The Vulture has "mixed weapon loadouts" but again, it was to be the dedicated airborne gunship. The Vendetta was just lazy lazy lazy LAZY. It clearly was intended to be something like the Vulture, but then LAZY LAZY LAZY got into it.
Great. No one argued that it wasn't. Put the goalposts down and leave them where they were.
Kanluwen wrote: Dollars to donuts the Vendetta was not going to have transport capacity and was going to get some kind of different body, but then the design team cheaped out and just added lascannons to it.
Irrelevant. The two are not the same in-game or in-universe, no matter what their real world origin might be.
Bull0 wrote: All of this is assuming that piece is actually meant to rotate. I'm not convinced.
Assuming that a ---turret--- is meant to rotate? MADNESS!
Unthinkable, right? Oh, wait (I know that's not exactly bulletproof but there are a ton of examples there of guns mounted on raised turret-like constructions that don't rotate. Also, in classic fashion, your joke only works by taking that line, and removing my lines that qualified it - that a non-rotating gun mount is just as silly as one that's meant to rotate but can't.)
Also, can someone explain how a GW model being a "rip off" of a FW model is a problem?
From the second link, since most of your images were of turrets that could, in fact, move. The rest were from vehicles without turrets. Amazing.
A gun turret is a weapon mount that protects the crew or mechanism of a projectile-firing weapon and at the same time lets the weapon be aimed and fired in many directions. The turret is also a rotating weapon platform.
There were a ton of images of assault guns with fixed weapons. And OK, so "turret" was the wrong word. The word I used was "piece", HBMC said turret, so even that doesn't work. Cheers now
I have heard from a company sales rep. that it is just a suppliment to use with imperial forces (militarium) and that IG will be coming later this year. But it is just hersay so take it for what it is worth. If what I have heard is true it is just the transport, and 2 unit boxes for the codex release.
Aren't most vehicles with weapons that can't move side to side basically just artillery vehicles? ie. Not what the Taurox is.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nemoaddler1979 wrote: I have heard from a company sales rep. that it is just a suppliment to use with imperial forces (militarium) and that IG will be coming later this year. But it is just hersay so take it for what it is worth. If what I have heard is true it is just the transport, and 2 unit boxes for the codex release.
Given we already have leaked photos of the IG codex, I'm thinking it comes out much sooner than "later this year".
nemoaddler1979 wrote: I have heard from a company sales rep. that it is just a suppliment to use with imperial forces (militarium) and that IG will be coming later this year. But it is just hersay so take it for what it is worth. If what I have heard is true it is just the transport, and 2 unit boxes for the codex release.
On the other hand, there are repeated rumors of main codex following just after tempestus militrarum, and we have seen its cover illustration already, plus a hydra new version.
I don't believe that main IG codex would be postponed to later this year, sorry.
Kanluwen wrote: ... and a blatant ripoff of the Vulture Gunship.
You keep saying this, but it really doesn't matter how many times you say it because it will never be true. The Vulture is a gunship. It flies around shooting things. The Vendetta is an up-gunned transport, something the Vulture is not.
The fact that the unit entry is the "Vendetta Gunship Squadron" begs to differ with you, HBMC.
You're ALL wrong
The Vendetta, by design, is clearly one of the best fighter/Intercepter craft in the 40k universe. with it's AV12, triple TL Lascannons(with optional Heavy Bolters) and the Sky fire rules, there are few flyers that can compete as a low cost highly effective dog-fighter. Upping it's AA abilities even further is its ability to poop troops out the back and fire even MORE GUNS at Xenos Aircraft! Dakka Dakka Dakka!!!
Kanluwen wrote: ... and a blatant ripoff of the Vulture Gunship.
You keep saying this, but it really doesn't matter how many times you say it because it will never be true. The Vulture is a gunship. It flies around shooting things. The Vendetta is an up-gunned transport, something the Vulture is not.
The fact that the unit entry is the "Vendetta Gunship Squadron" begs to differ with you, HBMC.
You're ALL wrong
The Vendetta, by design, is clearly one of the best fighter/Intercepter craft in the 40k universe. with it's AV12, triple TL Lascannons(with optional Heavy Bolters) and the Sky fire rules, there are few flyers that can compete as a low cost highly effective dog-fighter. Upping it's AA abilities even further is its ability to poop troops out the back and fire even MORE GUNS at Xenos Aircraft! Dakka Dakka Dakka!!!
The Vendetta is an example of why flyer rules don't really fit in a 28mm game. There's nothing wrong with the Vendetta, it's a gunship hovering over a small battlefield, if you were a fighter or fighter bomber plane flying as slowly as you possible can to actually maintain a presence over the tiny skirmish going on below, yeah, you'd get blown out of the sky by the gunship.
If we wanted more realistic flyer rules, most aircraft would make passes over the battlefield similar to the old epic 40k rules (have a separate "flyer" phase where flyers enter from one point on a table edge, move in a straight line, attack things, then fly straight off the other edge of the table).
Well the Valkyrie & Vulture are rumored to be in the next codex. The name "Vendetta" is no longer going to be used, but the Vendetta configuration will be an option for the Valkyrie.
The Vulture entry will be (just like FW made it) .... the default armament of a Vulture consists of a nose-mounted Heavy Bolter, Twin-linked Multi-Lasers, and 2 Hellstrike Missiles. The craft has two weapon hard-points on each of its wings, and can equip two different weapon systems which are linked to their counterpart on the opposite side of the aircraft. The inner hard-point, closest to the center of the aircraft, is capable of exchanging the Twin-linked Muti-Laser for external fuel tanks that will extend the aircraft's operational time and range. Twin-linked Lascannons can be attached for increased anti-armour firepower as well as Twin-linked Missile Launchers with either Frag or Krak warheads, Twin-linked Autocannons, or Twin-linked Rocket Pods. The outer weapon hard-point is capable of exchanging the Hellstrike Missiles for external fuel tanks, 2 Bomb Racks with up to 3 bombs each, 2 Heavy Smart Bomb Racks, with up to 3 Heavy Smart Bombs on each, 2 Missile Racks with 3 Hunter Killer Missiles per rack, 2 Hellfury Missiles, or 2 Multi-Rocket Pods. Both wing hard-points can be used for a single Twin-linked Punisher Gatling Cannon on each wing. The Vulture can also be equipped with ejector seats, flare or chaff launchers, a more heavily armoured cockpit, a searchlight, extra armour plating, an infra-red targeting system, and illumination flares.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Pretty stoked about the Scions. It looks like I just will need the $4 WD. As luck would have it I have 50 DKOK Grenadiers which will serve as Scions & 5 Salamanders that will serve as Tauroxes, and this is my plan -
Elite 1
"Scions" Squad 1 - 10 man (dkok Grenadier minis) with Sergeant (plasma pistol & power sword), meltagun and plasma gunner. (185 points)
in Taurox with twin linked autocannon & heavy bolter, 55 pts.
"Scions" Squad 2 - SAME
Elite 2
"Scions" Squad 1 - SAME
"Scions" Squad 2 - SAME
Elite 3
"Scions" Command Squad of 5 with plasma pistol/power sword, vox, medic, melta, plasma gunner & Squad of 5 with Sergeant (plasma pistol & power sword), meltagun and plasma gunner. (290 points)
in Taurox with twin linked autocannon & heavy bolter, 55 pts.
There were a ton of images of assault guns with fixed weapons. And OK, so "turret" was the wrong word. The word I used was "piece", HBMC said turret, so even that doesn't work. Cheers now
In fairness the images that you linked to, even the hull mounted guns, had a fairly decent traverse. Designs with a fixed gun, Like the Char B1, were quickly shown to be fatally flawed or were stop gap vehicles rushed into production.
The taurox looks to have a very limited traverse (as well as a massive silhouette) so its got the main drawback of a turret without the main advantage of a turret. This isn't a suprise given that GW is absolutely hopeless at designing vehicles, probably the best ones are the Rhino and the Chimera, both of which are basically real vehicles with skulls stuck on them.
Whoa! Take this with a grain of salt folks, I just left my local Games Workshop. I've been friends with the manager since the army. Decades. He has returned from Memphis, and he was the one who told me months ago about FW/BL going to be stocked in Memphis & the new website (FW/BL/GW merging into one on a website), etc... Also a few other things I dropped on this thread way back.....
Anyways, he got a quick look (I guess) or was told about the upcoming codexes....
The AT & AM codexes have a dedicated transport page section ,i.e. Chimera, Taurox, Valkyrie, etc...
Unit entries (HQ, Troops, Elites, etc...) clearly state "May choose one transport from the Dedicated Transport Section."
krazynadechukr wrote: Whoa! Take this with a grain of salt folks, I just left my local Games Workshop. I've been friends with the manager since the army. Decades. He has returned from Memphis, and he was the one who told me months ago about FW/BL going to be stocked in Memphis & the new website (FW/BL/GW merging into one on a website), etc... Also a few other things I dropped on this thread way back.....
Anyways, he got a quick look (I guess) or was told about the upcoming codexes....
The AT & AM codexes have a dedicated transport page section ,i.e. Chimera, Taurox, Valkyrie, etc...
Unit entries (HQ, Troops, Elites, etc...) clearly state "May choose one transport from the Dedicated Transport Section."
Air guard hell spam from hell in the depths of hell.
HQ 2 vendettas
Elite
3 vendettas+
Troops
6 vendettas+
Fast
3 vendettas+
Heavy
3 vendettas+ (I mean why the hell not at this point, right?)
Palindrome wrote: This isn't a suprise given that GW is absolutely hopeless at designing vehicles, probably the best ones are the Rhino and the Chimera, both of which are basically real vehicles with skulls stuck on them.
Ork Trukks look significantly more plausible than Chimeras. In fact, ork designs in general tend to be a lot more believable than their Imperial counterparts.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: I dunno..2 large blast missile pod sure can leave a nice mark in an infantry formation....
Except the vendetta doesn't have the MRP, but "only" three twin-linked lascannons. You'd have to upgrade all of them to carry Heavy Bolter sponsons to make is worth your while.
(I know, at this point, who's counting those measly 10 points each...)
Kanluwen wrote: There is nothing in Heavy that can take a transport.
There is a chance that heavy weapon platoons could be in heavy support. They seem to be popular in FW lists.
certainly hope. I have 9 teams...
Automatically Appended Next Post: From what I heard, 1 heavy choice can be 1-3 squads of 3 heavy weapons (squads must have same weapons, one can be 3 las, the other 3 mortars, etc...) & 0-1 heavy weapons command
TBH i never got any of the hype over the vendetta . It's a damn good flier as they go, but i have never seen them do any good, and there are much better things to spend 130 points on IMO. Spamming them costs too much for too few models, although they could do with a rise in points cost.
Soggy Kittenz wrote: TBH i never got any of the hype over the vendetta . It's a damn good flier as they go, but i have never seen them do any good, and there are much better things to spend 130 points on IMO. Spamming them costs too much for too few models, although they could do with a rise in points cost.
You're either using them wrong, have had bad luck or haven't used them enough.
One of my Vendettas has the following record (I tally everything with my IG, though I started recording game outcomes far sooner than unit kills, so it doesn't fully illustrate just how much my Vendetta has killed):
Kills:
Riptide x1
Librarian x1
Farsight Enclave Crisis Command Team of 3
Storm Talon x1
Dreadnought x1
Necron Overlord x3
Annihilation Barge x2
Company Master x1
Wraithknight x1
Razorwing x1
Deff Dread x1
Warboss x1
Killa Kan x1
Chapter Master in Terminator Armour x1
All of the kills were either as a result of outright, in one shooting phase, with total contribution, or as final contribution to their death. The longest number of consecutive games it survived before dying on record is13. It only died in the last game because 5 snapfiring Lootas got one hit, a penetrate and an explodes result. Its currently on 4 consecutive survived battles.
All this hipster crap about them not being effective I laugh at, basically.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: I dunno..2 large blast missile pod sure can leave a nice mark in an infantry formation....
Except the vendetta doesn't have the MRP, but "only" three twin-linked lascannons. You'd have to upgrade all of them to carry Heavy Bolter sponsons to make is worth your while.
(I know, at this point, who's counting those measly 10 points each...)
You can swap out 2 of the TL lascannons with Hellfury missiles for free.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Soggy Kittenz wrote: TBH i never got any of the hype over the vendetta . It's a damn good flier as they go, but i have never seen them do any good, and there are much better things to spend 130 points on IMO. Spamming them costs too much for too few models, although they could do with a rise in points cost.
3 Twin Linked Lascannons on a 12/12/10 flyer platform is totally worth more than 130pts. There's nothing for 130pts in the Guard codex that unleashes as much anti-tank/MC/flyer on a platform that is reasonably hard to kill.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: I dunno..2 large blast missile pod sure can leave a nice mark in an infantry formation....
Except the vendetta doesn't have the MRP, but "only" three twin-linked lascannons. You'd have to upgrade all of them to carry Heavy Bolter sponsons to make is worth your while.
(I know, at this point, who's counting those measly 10 points each...)
You can swap out 2 of the TL lascannons with Hellfury missiles for free.
True, but they still are a one-shot weapon that doesn't have a blast. So it'll kill one target, but is one shot, not twin-linked.
jspyd3rx wrote: Posted links to more pics in the commemtshttp://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/03/another-leaked-image-for-militarum.html?m=1
before anyone starts freaking out about the mention of FRF, read the sidebar!
And it certainly looks like the Astra Militarum codex is incoming. We're all tense as anything now... What, if anything, will get hit by the nerf bat? What beloved tactic will be impossible? What new tactics will arise from the ashes of the old (if any?)
BunkerBob wrote: So ST can get one order a turn, squaded into massive platoons. It works great?
I don't think I saw a rule anywhere that said CCS' can't give orders to MT units...
send a PCS and a CCS in chims along behind them, and you've got 4 units FRFing.
An interesting step up, but as persons have remarked earlier, we're not suffering from a lack of MEQ-killing kit in the current 'dex, and ST's are not the most efficient way to do it.
So Astra Militarum is just the high and mighty High Gothic name (we never heard before) of the (commonly called by the rank and file grunts) Imperial Guard.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: So Astra Militarum is just the high and mighty High Gothic name (we never heard before) of the (commonly called by the rank and file grunts) Imperial Guard.
Most people guessed that, especially after Sisters of Battle were changed to Adeptas Sororitas. It's obviously BS'd out of no where but it does make sense when you consider that EVERY other Imperial Organization has a high gothic name as well as (in most cases) a low gothic one.
Nice to see it official/canon that they're still called Imperial Guard by most though.
I thought everyone knew Astra Mili WERE Guard & it was a (unwanted/unneeded) name change. Who thought guard were gone & it was a new army replacing guard?
I just think the name change wasn't really needed and sounds kind of too ostentatious. Also it's a mouthful to say sometimes, along with the names of those new kits and supplements as well.
Having said that I like the look of the new models and it could encourage me start a small guard force.
I love the models but I dont like how one guy is wearing a helmet while driving the vehicle. Looks really weird.
The fender guns will definitely be put on the turret of my vehicle. It looks like a gun has just been glued onto it lazily and doesnt make much sense as has been noted.
But the interior is cool, I had a lot of joy when putting the reaver together because it has a cool interior. Hopefully this one is similar.
I am surprised by the size of it. I thought it was some tiny vehicle when I first saw it, but it started getting bigger and now its shape and size isnt so comical.
Definitely getting one. But it will be reserved solely for my storm trooper squad. But man the head gear on the drivers is annoying. They dont even have the uniform to match.
mattyrm wrote: So, is the codex still going to be called IG and the AM is just an addition then? I'm kinda confused.. I do prefer the name Imperial Guard though....
No. The Codex is called Codex: Abra Cadabra. It's name is changing.
mattyrm wrote: So, is the codex still going to be called IG and the AM is just an addition then? I'm kinda confused.. I do prefer the name Imperial Guard though....
AM/ IG are the same. Compare the name to Adeptus Astartes and the more commonly used Space Marine.
Storm Troopers or by the new name Scions have a stand alone Codex giving you platoon organisation and can be taken by IG.
IG will be getting their full Codex to be called Codex Astra Militarum.
I think most people will continue to use Imperial Guard as a name.
Not gunna lie, I am really excited after reading those white dwarf pages. I like how they seem to be trying to expand on the IG rather than retcon them.
Also:
... To create something which complemented, rather than competed with, the Chimera...
Augh, somehow I know I'm going to end up getting the Taurox, even though I despise the looks.
Do you think 1/35th M3A2 model US half-tracks do a decent job of making alternate Tuaroxes, with a little blinging up? (Ork stuff seems to be modelled on German stuff - ork trucks remind me of a Sd Kfz. 251).
... To create something which complemented, rather than competed with, the Chimera...
This is the same group that thinks power fists are worth 25 points on Guardsmen. Do you honestly believe them capable of making a second transport that complements rather than competes with the Chimera?
The armored car reminds me of this old thing from Go-Bots:
I'm not sure GW is capable of doing anything that isn't embarrassing anymore. I also wonder what kind of idiots will actually walk around calling this the "Astra Militarum" in stores and games.
Wasnt going to bother with this release I really thought it was unsalvagable but im warming to a project heres my ideas so far please bear in mind its super rough.
I know wtf seriously. I shouldnt have to be fething around in photoshop lol is it at least an improvement or am i wasting my time totally... I quitew like it with the raised tracks... I think i need to move the smoke stacks.... possibly just one to the top left of the door. hmmm
Going to be interesting to see all of those tempestus orders but even FRFSRF is a big get, even if it doesn't make much thematic sense (the whole "crushing volleys of fire" thing fits big infantry squads a lot better than small squads of elite troops, imo).
I own 3.5K imperial guard and if what i am seeing is true I am not NOT getting the new codex's and sticking with my old codex to play with my friends. This is not the army and fluff I liked so much. I would much rather spend my money on forgeworld models than on this cashgrabbing gak.
aliusexalio wrote: I own 3.5K imperial guard and if what i am seeing is true I am not NOT getting the new codex's and sticking with my old codex to play with my friends. This is not the army and fluff I liked so much. I would much rather spend my money on forgeworld models than on this cashgrabbing gak.
The fluff is still the same. The name just changed.
Goresaw wrote: Don't worry, if the sales of the new codex are poor, GW can just blame it on consumer confusion.
I didn't understand... is the Astra Millii U a new system, or is it a new peripheral I can use with my current Imperii Guard system? I'm so confused!
Codex: Astra Militarum is just the new name on the cover of Codex: Imperial Guard 6th Edition
Codex: Militarum Tempestus is a standalone expansion that lets you run Stormtroopers and a few friends with some bonuses, and without booting up the whole IG Codex.
To sum up :
You will be able to take up to 3+1 squads of Scions as a single elite selection very soon, using WD N.9 as an add-on to your IGV5 codex .
Most probably, the WD N.9 organisation will be inserted in V6 IG "Astra Militarum" codex (in replacement of what we currently have as stormtroopers).
Impeding stand-alone codex will be an option, where Scions will be troops.
Assuming they will be battle brothers, is there any reason that someone shouldn't just ally the two armies together and take them all as troops? What benefit is there to plugging them into your army as elites haha
Because normally units keep the same slot in the sub-codexes as it seems from Inquisition and Legion of the Damned. So they would only score if they were primary. Which would limit the amount of toys you could take from Codex: IG.
That said I'm not sure how much stuff you'd need from C:IG and the idea of scoring platoons of deepstriking specialists is genius to me.
The entry under elites in the AM codex will have option for Scion (takes up an elites choice),, and it says you will need a copy of the AT codex. Scion stats are not in AM.
krazynadechukr wrote: The entry under elites in the AM codex will have option for Scion (takes up an elites choice),, and it says you will need a copy of the AT codex. Scion stats are not in AM.
But in funny enough in a $4 WD.
Have you got a source for this? If that actually happens it'll definitely drive me further away from 40k. £30 was already too much for a codex, when they tend to be unimaginative retreads. £60 to use IG with stormtroopers would be a joke. My personal belief is that this won't happen but I certainly wouldn't put it past GW - it'd definitely be a bridge too far for me, though. Where does it end? The next Ork codex will be released alongside Codex:Grots? etc
I don't think there's a precedent for what you're proposing though, which is why I ask if you're the source or if someone told you this or what...?
Take it with a grain of salt, but my old army buddy, who is a GW manager, who goes back and fourth to Memphis, has clued me into several things already.
The new codexes are similar to how, say a Blood Angels Codex, or Space Wolves one is. Meaning, several entries refer you to have the Space Marine Codex to use that unit.
Like the SM codex, there is a dedicated transport section. In AT, the Taurox info is there, but the Chimera & Valkyrie are also there, but reference you to use the AM codex.
The AM codex is the same, where in Elites there is a small blurb you can choose Scions, but reference the AT codex, and also the AM codex had a dedicated transport section and Taurox is mentioned as an option but "use the AT codex for this choice."
He also was the one that told me that the Valkyrie (1-3) has the Vendetta options now (and can still transport), and the Vendetta is no longer an actual seperate fast choice (by name at least)...Freeing up a fast slot...
Again, not sure if he saw, or was told, this info.
He told me the GW website change was coming, the FW/BL stuff would be in GW April 7th, he told me that finecast is phasing out the stock & replacing with FW formula, that the twitter & facebook (GW) was going, all months ago...And much more...
krazynadechukr wrote: The new codexes are similar to how, say a Blood Angels Codex, or Space Wolves one is. Meaning, several entries refer you to have the Space Marine Codex to use that unit.
OK, cool, I'm not saying your buddy is lying or anything but the Blood Angels book at least doesn't work like that. There are lots of things that say refer to the main 40k rulebook - special rules and generic weapons like power fists - but there's nothing in there that says refer to Codex Space Marines. The generic marine units are in there, with their own profiles, you don't need to refer to Codex SM. So, I still think this idea of a codex that actually has empty profiles in it with instructions to refer to another codex is basically unprecedented and (hopefully) not going to happen. Because you shouldn't have to pay £60 to use IG with stormtroopers.
krazynadechukr wrote: Take it with a grain of salt, but my old army buddy, who is a GW manager, who goes back and fourth to Memphis, has clued me into several things already.
The new codexes are similar to how, say a Blood Angels Codex, or Space Wolves one is. Meaning, several entries refer you to have the Space Marine Codex to use that unit.
Uhh...
Pages 40 through 48 in the Space Wolves codex say "wat?".
Like the SM codex, there is a dedicated transport section. In AT, the Taurox info is there, but the Chimera & Valkyrie are also there, but reference you to use the AM codex.
The AM codex is the same, where in Elites there is a small blurb you can choose Scions, but reference the AT codex, and also the AM codex had a dedicated transport section and Taurox is mentioned as an option but "use the AT codex for this choice."
This is very doubtful. As far as I know(I don't have the digital Inquisition book, which is where I think it might come into play), this is very very very unlikely. This is something that used to be done with the little tiny pamphlet "mini-dexes" for the Space Marine Chapters. It's partially why most of the Chapters that had the mini-dexes then got full-sized Codexes, and it caused some issues when books got updated as one army would pay X while another might pay Y for an item with the same rules, same usage, etc.
He also was the one that told me that the Valkyrie (1-3) has the Vendetta options now (and can still transport), and the Vendetta is no longer an actual seperate fast choice (by name at least)...Freeing up a fast slot...
pretre wrote: All months ago... Too bad you didn't say anything then.
Might want to check my previous posts & topics I started.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What's the point though? Everyone knows when you post on sites like this with "My friend who works at GW saw..." The cries of heresy start. Heck, I had seen first hand (years ago) a model before release, and no one would believe me. Eh, *shrugs shoulders* people will believe what they want to...
pretre wrote: All months ago... Too bad you didn't say anything then.
Might want to check my previous posts & topics I started.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What's the point though? Everyone knows when you post on sites like this with "My friend who works at GW saw..." The cries of heresy start. Heck, I had seen first hand (years ago) a model before release, and no one would believe me. Eh, *shrugs shoulders* people will believe what they want to...
re: Memphis stocking FW and FW/BL merge on the site. If you have other posts that predicted things previously, send me a pm and I'll get you added to the tracker.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
krazynadechukr wrote: What's the point though? Everyone knows when you post on sites like this with "My friend who works at GW saw..." The cries of heresy start. Heck, I had seen first hand (years ago) a model before release, and no one would believe me. Eh, *shrugs shoulders* people will believe what they want to...
The point is that when you build up reliability, then people believe you when you say something. So provide some links and we'll get you some reliability.
pretre wrote: All months ago... Too bad you didn't say anything then.
Might want to check my previous posts & topics I started.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What's the point though? Everyone knows when you post on sites like this with "My friend who works at GW saw..." The cries of heresy start. Heck, I had seen first hand (years ago) a model before release, and no one would believe me. Eh, *shrugs shoulders* people will believe what they want to...
Can you post a link to your threads? I found this one, which talks about the Memphis bunker to stock FW and BL stuff.
Not sure if this was covered, but as many might know the GW Memphis location closed it's production side (everything is made in uk) a while back, and the huge open area is set up for forgeworld and black library stuff. GW stores received new computer and register programs this week which are being installed in March. Fw and bl will merge with GW website, and everything will be ordered through GW main site. At least we will save time and shipping costs by having it go to a local store!
I will talk to him today to clarify it better.....
Regardless, just using common sense, if GW is making 2 codexes (AT & AM), which we know they are, GW would not put all the same info from AT into AM &/or AM into AT. What would be the point of making two codexes!
From their (GWs) financial/sales sense, it would eliminate the need to even buy the AT codex if the (bigger and more complete) AM codex had the same AT info......
Oh, btw, I had had 2 dakka profiles (I forgot the older krazynadechukr) and a Mod helped me regain the older & deleted my other (that I had posted with).... I will search for the threads I mentioned earlier.
I'm not asking for them to put anything new into the "AM" book (although, hey! that'd be nice), I just object to the idea of GW taking stormtroopers out of the IG book (call them Scions, whatever), putting them into a different book, and thus requiring me to buy 2 books to continue using the army I currently need 1 book for. This is fairly simple stuff we're talking about.
There is a very big difference between "like the Forge World books" and "like Codex: Space Wolves and Blood Angels".
I think, to be fair to krazy, that his friend probably explained it well and krazy just posted it poorly.
Pretre, always liked you man. Still do. My conversation with him was quick, and maybe I didn't articulate it here properly. Point of the story - YOU NEED BOTH AT & AM CODEXES IF YOU WANT TO USE UNITS FROM ONE OR THE OTHER CODEX TOGETHER.
Bull0 wrote: I'm not asking for them to put anything new into the "AM" book (although, hey! that'd be nice), I just object to the idea of GW taking stormtroopers out of the IG book (call them Scions, whatever), putting them into a different book, and thus requiring me to buy 2 books to continue using the army I currently need 1 book for. This is fairly simple stuff we're talking about.
Agreed, 1000%. I have a DKOK force I run as reg guard with grenadiers (as elite "scions" now?), and my wallet is already hurting.... Maybe I will run them as Vets instead....
Bull0 wrote: I'm not asking for them to put anything new into the "AM" book (although, hey! that'd be nice), I just object to the idea of GW taking stormtroopers out of the IG book (call them Scions, whatever), putting them into a different book, and thus requiring me to buy 2 books to continue using the army I currently need 1 book for. This is fairly simple stuff we're talking about.
Agreed, 1000%. I have a DKOK force I run as reg guard with grenadiers (as elite "scions" now?), and my wallet is already hurting.... Maybe I will run them as Vets instead....
There is a very big difference between "like the Forge World books" and "like Codex: Space Wolves and Blood Angels".
I think, to be fair to krazy, that his friend probably explained it well and krazy just posted it poorly.
Pretre, always liked you man. Still do. My conversation with him was quick, and maybe I didn't articulate it here properly. Point of the story - YOU NEED BOTH AT & AM CODEXES IF YOU WANT TO USE UNITS FROM ONE OR THE OTHER CODEX TOGETHER.
So what you're saying is AT is a supplement, like Crimson Slaughter, Black Legion, Sentinels of Terra, Clan Raukan(?), Iyanden or Farsight Enclaves, and not a stand alone book like Inquisition or LotD?
Disagree. It's a bit of a game changer if GW start deliberately leaving units out of codexes that were in prior editions, and selling them in separate, £30 books. Those supplements are all a new twist on an existing book. If they'd taken Wraithguard out of Codex Eldar, and put them in the Iyanden supplement, for example, then it'd be the same. And I'd have gone mental about it at the time, because it seems really unfair to me.
There is a very big difference between "like the Forge World books" and "like Codex: Space Wolves and Blood Angels".
I think, to be fair to krazy, that his friend probably explained it well and krazy just posted it poorly.
Pretre, always liked you man. Still do. My conversation with him was quick, and maybe I didn't articulate it here properly. Point of the story - YOU NEED BOTH AT & AM CODEXES IF YOU WANT TO USE UNITS FROM ONE OR THE OTHER CODEX TOGETHER.
So what you're saying is AT is a supplement, like Crimson Slaughter, Black Legion, Sentinels of Terra, Clan Raukan(?), Iyanden or Farsight Enclaves, and not a stand alone book like Inquisition or LotD?
Hardly a massive revelation.
I'm not sire but I think they are saying that you need AT to use units in AM and vice-versa.
I still don't think it's true, on the basis that WD says the Scion platoons are an elites choice for codex Imperial Guard (and I know there are people here that think that's a deliberate ploy to flog people models they won't be able to use in a week's time, but I think that's probably not a thing - why wouldn't they have just said they're for the MT book, to get you to buy the new MT book, instead of getting you to buy them, then find they're not in the AM book and THEN disgruntledly buy the MT book later?)
Also, why would GW force themselves to provide several pages of original content to meet the page-count when they can just re-print material from the other book?
The new IG Codex may just have a bog standard one squad as Elites entry for Scions.
If you want the full bells and whistles, new orders and to have them as an Army in their own right you need the Tempestus Codex...which you can then ally with IG.
At least that's what I'm hoping as I want Scions but have no real urge to pay for a Tempestus Codex.
Perfect Organism wrote: Also, why would GW force themselves to provide several pages of original content to meet the page-count when they can just re-print material from the other book?
Regardless, just using common sense, if GW is making 2 codexes (AT & AM), which we know they are, GW would not put all the same info from AT into AM &/or AM into AT. What would be the point of making two codexes!
From their (GWs) financial/sales sense, it would eliminate the need to even buy the AT codex if the (bigger and more complete) AM codex had the same AT info......
Yeah... I'm sorry krazy but the combo of unclear wording/shifting goalposts (I predict X!... I mean X+1! I mean just like Y used to be!) plus claims of "I knew this months before" don't add up well together. You frankly sound like your friend is making educated guesses. If the codex is a "supplement" then it will refer to the main book just like Farsight Enclaves does. If it is a standalone codex like Knight Titans, it won't. It's not much of a rumor to pick one of the existing types for a rumor and then claim knowledge of a rumored website change for months when the rumor has been around for months (and mentioned in the GW financial report even). Sorry but your redshirt friend has provided you (at least based on what you're posting) with nothing more than a reading of the existing rumors with a small dose of educated guess.
warboss wrote: Yeah... I'm sorry krazy but the combo of unclear wording/shifting goalposts (I predict X!... I mean X+1! I mean just like Y used to be!) plus claims of "I knew this months before" don't add up well together. You frankly sound like your friend is making educated guesses. If the codex is a "supplement" then it will refer to the main book just like Farsight Enclaves does. If it is a standalone codex like Knight Titans, it won't. It's not much of a rumor to pick one of the existing types for a rumor and then claim knowledge of a rumored website change for months when the rumor has been around for months (and mentioned in the GW financial report even). Sorry but your redshirt friend has provided you (at least based on what you're posting) with nothing more than a reading of the existing rumors with a small dose of educated guess.
Most likely (I hope).
The conversation went like this (after he had just returned from Memphis)...
(jumping to the part in question)
Me - Yeah, I was thinking of doing a Scion Drop Trooper army, kinda like an Elysian force.
Him - Cool idea. The Scions do get to use Valkyries as transports, but you'll need to get the new Astra Militarum codex for the updated Valkyrie stats and stuff. I'm not sure Scions can be a stand alone army though.
Me - What? If the Scions have access to the Valkyrie, and for that matter the Chimera, are you telling me they're (the Chimera & Valkyrie) not in the Astra Tempestus codex?
Him - That was my understanding. Don't sweat it though, there's a new White Dwarf coming out that will have the Scion info in it.
Me - I might just run my Grenadiers as Vets then in Valkyries, or give them those souped up Tauroxes.
Him - I don't know if they (vets) can get Tauroxes. The upcoming White Dwarf has the Taurox info in it too. We'll see.
Me - Should I bother to preorder the Stormtrooper codex then?
Him- If you plan on using Stormtroopers in your guard army, then yes, I would when they come up for preordering. Make sure you do it in my store, so I get the credit!
Me - I'd imagine the new Guard codex will have the same info for Scions though. I don't want to buy a whole extra codex for one unit. I'm still pissed at the Knight codex.
Him- From what I gathered, the entry for Stormtroopers, Scions that is, has a brief entry (in the AM Codex) for the unit, but refers you to the Astra Tempestus codex for further information to use them with an imperial army.
Me - That will be such bull$&^% if that is true.
Him - I think the White Dwarf will have enough of the information you need, if you are just doing like one or two elites of Scions, along with the new guard codex. If not, you can get the info from the store codex.
I'd wager good money that the codex MT will contain reprints of the storm trooper units in codex AM. There will be more in depth fluff and rules for making a warlord and running them as scoring units in TM. You won't need the AM book to run an MT army and you won't need the MT book to include storm troopers in a AM army.
My reasons for this?
No supplement has introduced new models, just alternate rules for existing models. If TM was a supplement for AM then those new storm trooper models would likely be available in some form in the MA codex.
Nothing titled as a codex in WD has required another codex to be played. In fact other than codex specific supplements like black legion/crimson slaughter nothing in 6th has required any additional books beyond the core rule book to be used. Even the data slate formations are self contained.
Being a digital exclusive codes it feels exactly like codex inquisition/legion of the damned. Both are essentially mini-codexs that let you take an elite choice and run them as a stand alone force with a few extra bells and whistles.
DJGietzen wrote: I'd wager good money that the codex MT will contain reprints of the storm trooper units in codex AM. There will be more in depth fluff and rules for making a warlord and running them as scoring units in TM. You won't need the AM book to run an MT army and you won't need the MT book to include storm troopers in a AM army.
I'm all but certain this is how it's going to go down too.
Altar of War
Battle in the 41st millennium is a bloody affair with conflicts raging across the galaxy. Every opponent represents a new challenge and each army has their own battle tactics. On the battlefield, you have hundreds, if not thousands, of different ways you can play games of Warhammer 40,000.
The Altar of War compendium is a collection of 63 missions (that first appeared in digital products) presented in a handy hardback book.
The missions encapsulate all the methods of war being fought across the Imperium and beyond. Each one is tailored to the specialist tactics and unique weaponry of many of the factions fighting in the 41st Millennium - from the rapid shock assaults of the Space Marines to the insidious incursions of the daemonic legions. Each mission is designed to challenge your tactical ability and this book features the Altar of War missions from:
- Space Marines, including Sentinels of Terra and Clan Raukaan
- Dark Angels
- Imperial Knights
- Eldar, including lyanden
- Tau Empire, including Farsight Enclaves
- Tyranids
- Chaos Daemons
- Chaos Space Marines, including Black Legion.
There's now a Militarum Tempestus section on the website which includes not only Scions and Tauroxes but Commissars and Valkyries, casting some doubt on this idea that you need the AM *and* MT books.
Altar of War book looks surprisingly worth getting. And I love that cover art.
Not too many surprises other than a servo skull and two (armless) separate Hellguns. EDIT: Oops, the servo skull was actually shown earlier so I guess the extra Hellguns are the only surprise. The kit seems to have the anticipated options for a command squad, plenty of heads, one special weapon of each type, and enough Hellguns for all five models. I see no Grav Gun but someone else's eyes may be sharper than mine.
Not too many surprises other than a servo skull and two (armless) separate Hellguns. It seems to have the anticipated options for a command squad, plenty of heads, one special weapon of each type, and enough Hellguns for all five models. I see no Grav Gun but someone else's eyes may be sharper than mine.
Grav Guns weren't one of the options listed in White Dwarf. There's a bulkier Hellgun in there, where it looks like it has two barrels and that is the previously unknown "Volley Hellgun".
Alter of War sounds good though probably not up my alley. Models look good. Sprues look pretty good except I'm not a fan of the Scion torsos since I like converting and giant gaping holds is bad.
There's a Scion Expeditionary Firce on the GW site.
1x command squad, 6x scion squads, 4x Taurox and 3x Valk - £512!
A nice looking force certainly and an indication perhaps where Scions are intended to take support from. Could be a good book for all you Elysian Drop troopers (model your buggies to twin AC and you set! ).
I am aware, its mostly just for visuals, and I got used to my Watchmasters (Sergeants) being able to use lasgun (but Grenadiers Watchmasters are stuck with pistols? Okay...) I am probably not even going to play with them, since I play the Death Korps.
It would be cool if they didn't cost more per model than Grey Knights, I already thought that was bad. I'll probably pass on the new Stormies even though the models are pretty nice.
Bobthehero wrote: I am aware, its mostly just for visuals, and I got used to my Watchmasters (Sergeants) being able to use lasgun (but Grenadiers Watchmasters are stuck with pistols? Okay...) I am probably not even going to play with them, since I play the Death Korps.
It's possible that Death Korps will get to keep their current choices.
For the purposes of using them in a Guard Army I just need the White dwarf correct?
If so I will get that instead of the book and save a decent amount of cash. anyone know if there will be some rules that say "refer to tempestus codex" in there?
They are a little pricey, I went to my favourite 20% off place which made it doable. I'm glad there are 5 hellguns in there. I got 4 boxes, and plan to do 2 squads of 10 and use the spares to turn 5 spare cadians into a scion command squad. Steered clear of the wagons.
Swastakowey wrote: So no opinion changes on the Scions Taurox? I think its awesome personally. I might use them over Chimeras if I ever decide to go mechanized.
What do you mean no opinions, there are pages and pages of them in this thread!
Unless they've completely nerfed the Chimera, I see no reason to spend my money on the Taurox - it's $48 for a flimsier version of the Chimera, which is $37 (and which I already have coming out my ). Not a big fan of the way it looks, and doesn't really fill a need for my IG army. Not sure why I can't just deep strike some Scions with meltas or plasmas to a spot where I need 'em instead of driving them up in a big "first blood" magnet.
Swastakowey wrote: For the purposes of using them in a Guard Army I just need the White dwarf correct?
If so I will get that instead of the book and save a decent amount of cash. anyone know if there will be some rules that say "refer to tempestus codex" in there?
After a skim-read the only thing I've noticed is that the codex will have new orders for them.
Bull0 wrote: They are a little pricey, I went to my favourite 20% off place which made it doable. I'm glad there are 5 hellguns in there. I got 4 boxes, and plan to do 2 squads of 10 and use the spares to turn 5 spare cadians into a scion command squad. Steered clear of the wagons.
Much like similar kits, this one promises to offer enough bits to convert quite a few other models to be pretty awesome.
So, looking at the pre-order site and the new pics/360* views, I can safely say I'm still thoroughly unimpressed by the Taurox model, the treads are just badly done and it looks more suited to an Ork army. I don't know why GW thought this thing was a good idea, but they were wrong.
The Scion models aren't bad, I'm not at all a fan of the beret heads (though I understand others are) and the flag with "Scions" on it just looks silly, but with helmeted heads I think they look pretty cool. Still not quite understanding why they needed to reinvent the wheel instead of porting the older ST's or Kasrkin to plastic, but these are kinda cool too.
That said, the Scions are as expensive as Forgeworld Death Korps Grenadier models, so that's a thing...
Swastakowey wrote: So no opinion changes on the Scions Taurox? I think its awesome personally. I might use them over Chimeras if I ever decide to go mechanized.
What do you mean no opinions, there are pages and pages of them in this thread!
Unless they've completely nerfed the Chimera, I see no reason to spend my money on the Taurox - it's $48 for a flimsier version of the Chimera, which is $37 (and which I already have coming out my ). Not a big fan of the way it looks, and doesn't really fill a need for my IG army. Not sure why I can't just deep strike some Scions with meltas or plasmas to a spot where I need 'em instead of driving them up in a big "first blood" magnet.
Um... What do I mean when I say no opinion changes? Well it means are there any opinion changes.
I should have specified looks over rules, but in appearance. When I first saw the vehicle it looked like a stubby small car for 3 men. Now it looks a bit more like a vehicle and I have grown fond of it.
Deep striking is probably better competitively, but I have too much terrain on my boards to deep strike reliably where they will do damage. But its a light vehicle thats fast and carries troops. Something I have always wanted in my codex. Now I finally have it. Doesnt need to fill a unfilled role (all codices need unfilled roles) just needs to open up more oppurtunities to make a cool force your own.
Also the Chimera and Taurox are the same price I think.
Swastakowey wrote: So no opinion changes on the Scions Taurox? I think its awesome personally. I might use them over Chimeras if I ever decide to go mechanized.
What do you mean no opinions, there are pages and pages of them in this thread!
Unless they've completely nerfed the Chimera, I see no reason to spend my money on the Taurox - it's $48 for a flimsier version of the Chimera, which is $37 (and which I already have coming out my ). Not a big fan of the way it looks, and doesn't really fill a need for my IG army. Not sure why I can't just deep strike some Scions with meltas or plasmas to a spot where I need 'em instead of driving them up in a big "first blood" magnet.
Um... What do I mean when I say no opinion changes? Well it means are there any opinion changes.
I should have specified looks over rules, but in appearance. When I first saw the vehicle it looked like a stubby small car for 3 men. Now it looks a bit more like a vehicle and I have grown fond of it.
Deep striking is probably better competitively, but I have too much terrain on my boards to deep strike reliably where they will do damage. But its a light vehicle thats fast and carries troops. Something I have always wanted in my codex. Now I finally have it. Doesnt need to fill a unfilled role (all codices need unfilled roles) just needs to open up more oppurtunities to make a cool force your own.
Also the Chimera and Taurox are the same price I think.
Apologies, read right past "changes" and just saw "are there any opinions."
Swastakowey wrote: So no opinion changes on the Scions Taurox? I think its awesome personally. I might use them over Chimeras if I ever decide to go mechanized.
tbh, I kind of like them, they seem a more "believable" tank, which doesn't really fit with the rest of the 40k world . I really don't get the bolt on hull mounted Autocannons/hotshots, how would you aim those things? they also look strange like little thought as gone into them.
I am still not sold on the Taurox, and if I get one I'll likely add wheels to it but overall I am not sure if I want that model in my army.
The Scions are a different story. I want at least a full squad of 10 just for modeling purposes. Those are really lovely models even at $7 per figure. Thank goodness for online discounts!
I have a sudden urge to build a Miltarum Tempestus army just because I'm fascinated by airborne units.
I would have got Elysians already if I hadn't got a Cadian army, but this is different. I really like the Scion models and I reckon there's a lot of potential for a massive deepstrike-alpha strike army.
Swastakowey wrote: So no opinion changes on the Scions Taurox? I think its awesome personally. I might use them over Chimeras if I ever decide to go mechanized.
tbh, I kind of like them, they seem a more "believable" tank, which doesn't really fit with the rest of the 40k world . I really don't get the bolt on hull mounted Autocannons/hotshots, how would you aim those things? they also look strange like little thought as gone into them.
I don't think its as bad as people make out.
I will add those side guns to the turret somehow. It looks like someone has rested guns on the fender. That and the helmets for the crew are the only things I dont like.
From what I can see, it looks tall enough for people to sit in (although the tracks could cause this illusion).
(...)
Deep striking is probably better competitively, but I have too much terrain on my boards to deep strike reliably where they will do damage. But its a light vehicle thats fast and carries troops. Something I have always wanted in my codex. Now I finally have it. Doesnt need to fill a unfilled role (all codices need unfilled roles) just needs to open up more oppurtunities to make a cool force your own.
Also the Chimera and Taurox are the same price I think.
Keep in mind scions gained move through cover compared to old stormtroopers. So they can be deep struck in difficult terrain without taking dangerous terrain tests (if it is what worries you).
Cerebrium wrote: So, using my (lack of) Photoshop skills, I've mocked up the colour scheme I'm going to use, which I reckon is much better than the studio scheme.
Cerebrium wrote: So, using my (lack of) Photoshop skills, I've mocked up the colour scheme I'm going to use, which I reckon is much better than the studio scheme.
Badass, anyone care to photoshop some steel legion colours on there?
(...) Deep striking is probably better competitively, but I have too much terrain on my boards to deep strike reliably where they will do damage. But its a light vehicle thats fast and carries troops. Something I have always wanted in my codex. Now I finally have it. Doesnt need to fill a unfilled role (all codices need unfilled roles) just needs to open up more oppurtunities to make a cool force your own.
Also the Chimera and Taurox are the same price I think.
Keep in mind scions gained move through cover compared to old stormtroopers. So they can be deep struck in difficult terrain without taking dangerous terrain tests (if it is what worries you).
Aaaah good point. Well this changes things up a bit.
im gonna paint mine up an bright impractical red and white colour scheme. Match my inquisition.
Cerebrium wrote: So, using my (lack of) Photoshop skills, I've mocked up the colour scheme I'm going to use, which I reckon is much better than the studio scheme.
The black and grey look much better, especially for the helmet
Cerebrium wrote: So, using my (lack of) Photoshop skills, I've mocked up the colour scheme I'm going to use, which I reckon is much better than the studio scheme.
Kinda nice, too bright a red however. With a trusted red ochre (or other slightly desaturated red) and some patches of contrasting color here and there, this will speak badass.
Cerebrium wrote: So, using my (lack of) Photoshop skills, I've mocked up the colour scheme I'm going to use, which I reckon is much better than the studio scheme.
Kinda nice, too bright a red however. With a trusted red ochre (or other slightly desaturated red) and some patches of contrasting color here and there, this will speak badass.
Yeah, I was thinking of toning down the red, using something like Mephiston Red, and Carroburg Crimson wash. I'm using the green of the lenses as a contrasting colour.
Ravajaxe wrote: And poof goes the V3 stormtroopers and V4 kasrkins (by Juan Diaz) on GW website.
Dear Kasrkins, you will be missed.
Aww that's a bummer. I bought myself 2 squads of the Stormtroopers and 2 sets of the assault weapons a few weeks back since I had a hunch they'd be getting pulled soon. I'm glad I got them when I could, I wish I could've gotten some Kasrkin as well, but there's always eBay. Can't wait to see all the extremely overpriced OOP listings.
Cerebrium wrote: So, using my (lack of) Photoshop skills, I've mocked up the colour scheme I'm going to use, which I reckon is much better than the studio scheme.
Spoiler:
I like it. Black armour is clearly the way to go. This is roughly what I'm thinking - I'm going for the feel of the SAS character models in video games (like counter-strike)
27€ is a tad pricey, but there are intems in GW's catalog with a worse cost-to-value ratio. FIve Deathwing termies/knights go for 45€, for example.
I'll be getting ten scions to boost my Inquisition detachment. The remaining bits I'll use on guardsmen bodies to make non-power armored inquisitiors (dat tabard!) and assorted henchmen. I was considering orkifying a Taurox, but I think I'll pass for now.
Keep in mind scions gained move through cover compared to old stormtroopers. So they can be deep struck in difficult terrain without taking dangerous terrain tests (if it is what worries you).
But with the Reconnaissance Special Operation, the ST in the current Codex have that and also Scouts. Basically, they've lost Scouts and the other Special Operations.
Keep in mind scions gained move through cover compared to old stormtroopers. So they can be deep struck in difficult terrain without taking dangerous terrain tests (if it is what worries you).
But with the Reconnaissance Special Operation, the ST in the current Codex have that and also Scouts. Basically, they've lost Scouts and the other Special Operations.
That tank is just crying out for a battlewagon conversion. Or maybe it might be an idea to go the other way and take a battlewagon into the Militarum Tempestus.
...I still think the Taurox is an ugly bastard and I still think the Storm troopers are over priced.
...I also still think the MT codex is stand alone and not a supplement to the AM codex and have no intention of purchasing the MT codex.
So, what's next week? AM codex and Ogryns?
nah next Week its the Codex ; Abhumans, With Ogryns and ratlings for 49$, with all the fluff, photo gallery and rules to play Ogryns and ratlings units.
Yep, it's most likely a standalone for those who want to play MT without going full IG/AM(?). Thing is, I believe the Astra Militarum codex will have all rules for Tempestus Scions in it, but will probably restrict them to the elite slot.
Also, notice how Militarum Tempestus has its own tab on the armies' sidebar. That's pretty telling.
I was really expecting more than just Scions and Taurox. Did anyone else think that there'd be more than just these two units for a whole codex? Or is everything now the Imperial Knights style?
I would buy a squad of Scions, if they cost half as much. $7 per soldier is obscene.
TheSilo wrote: I was really expecting more than just Scions and Taurox. Did anyone else think that there'd be more than just these two units for a whole codex? Or is everything now the Imperial Knights style?
I would buy a squad of Scions, if they cost half as much. $7 per soldier is obscene.
Don't forget the Valkyries and Commissars!
I am a bit disappointed to GW's push to half-arsed armies. First the IK army and now the Storm Troopers codex.
TheSilo wrote: I was really expecting more than just Scions and Taurox. Did anyone else think that there'd be more than just these two units for a whole codex?
I thought Bullgryns would be in as well, if only to assemble a "riot police" style force. Besides, the leaked images had them painted in that fugly baby blue they used for the Prime and the Scions...
TheSilo wrote: I was really expecting more than just Scions and Taurox. Did anyone else think that there'd be more than just these two units for a whole codex?
I thought Bullgryns would be in as well, if only to assemble a "riot police" style force. Besides, the leaked images had them painted in that fugly baby blue they used for the Prime and the Scions...
Might be in the codex, but the models are coming week 2.
Also, as a side note, you can now buy individual Heavy Weapon teams again for one dollar more than you could previously.
TheSilo wrote: I was really expecting more than just Scions and Taurox. Did anyone else think that there'd be more than just these two units for a whole codex?
I thought Bullgryns would be in as well, if only to assemble a "riot police" style force. Besides, the leaked images had them painted in that fugly baby blue they used for the Prime and the Scions...
Might be in the codex, but the models are coming week 2.
Also, as a side note, you can now buy individual Heavy Weapon teams again for one dollar more than you could previously.
but buy'em in a box of 3 and it's around 12$ worth of saving. I can see why some would only buy one, but I always bought them in 3s.
TheSilo wrote: I was really expecting more than just Scions and Taurox. Did anyone else think that there'd be more than just these two units for a whole codex?
I thought Bullgryns would be in as well, if only to assemble a "riot police" style force. Besides, the leaked images had them painted in that fugly baby blue they used for the Prime and the Scions...
Might be in the codex, but the models are coming week 2.
Also, as a side note, you can now buy individual Heavy Weapon teams again for one dollar more than you could previously.
but buy'em in a box of 3 and it's around 12$ worth of saving. I can see why some would only buy one, but I always bought them in 3s.
At Australian pricing you only save $1 buying 3 at once instead of 3 separately.
Hmmmmm...it's going to take a bit of work, but I think those stormtrooper backpacks, arms, legs and hellguns will nicely combine with FW renegade conversion torsos.
Altar of War
Battle in the 41st millennium is a bloody affair with conflicts raging across the galaxy. Every opponent represents a new challenge and each army has their own battle tactics. On the battlefield, you have hundreds, if not thousands, of different ways you can play games of Warhammer 40,000.
The Altar of War compendium is a collection of 63 missions (that first appeared in digital products) presented in a handy hardback book.
The missions encapsulate all the methods of war being fought across the Imperium and beyond. Each one is tailored to the specialist tactics and unique weaponry of many of the factions fighting in the 41st Millennium - from the rapid shock assaults of the Space Marines to the insidious incursions of the daemonic legions. Each mission is designed to challenge your tactical ability and this book features the Altar of War missions from:
- Space Marines, including Sentinels of Terra and Clan Raukaan
- Dark Angels
- Imperial Knights
- Eldar, including lyanden
- Tau Empire, including Farsight Enclaves
- Tyranids
- Chaos Daemons
- Chaos Space Marines, including Black Legion.
The Altar of War book is $49.50 USD.
Should we worry that they did not bother to include the Sororitas (again)
Question. If these guys are to be their own army and seeing that stormtroopers have disappeared from the IG elite section, do we (IG) need to ally them in order to get stormtroopers?
PuddlePirate wrote: Question. If these guys are to be their own army and seeing that stormtroopers have disappeared from the IG elite section, do we (IG) need to ally them in order to get stormtroopers?
I'm guessing the IG codex will have the rules for Storm Troopers still, but we won't know until the codex comes out a few weeks (or we get more leaks!).
PuddlePirate wrote: Question. If these guys are to be their own army and seeing that stormtroopers have disappeared from the IG elite section, do we (IG) need to ally them in order to get stormtroopers?
I'm guessing the IG codex will have the rules for Storm Troopers still, but we won't know until the codex comes out a few weeks (or we get more leaks!).
TheSilo wrote: I was really expecting more than just Scions and Taurox. Did anyone else think that there'd be more than just these two units for a whole codex? Or is everything now the Imperial Knights style?
Well, there's also Commissars and I expect a few of the IG transport vehicles will be available to the MT too. Maybe a few other units, like Bullgryns. But yes, basically, new armies are going to be restricted to a very small range of models. GW just aren't going to sink a large investment into something new and untested.
At least with the new system of unit-light codexes which can be allied to other armies, we have a bit more opportunity to see new stuff. If they release an Adeptus Mechanicus, Arbites, Genestealer Cult or Kroot Mercenaries list, they will have to make a whole 'army' out of a couple of kits. This model lets them do that.
PuddlePirate wrote: Question. If these guys are to be their own army and seeing that stormtroopers have disappeared from the IG elite section, do we (IG) need to ally them in order to get stormtroopers?
I'm guessing the IG codex will have the rules for Storm Troopers still, but we won't know until the codex comes out a few weeks (or we get more leaks!).
*fingers crossed*
If they aren't in the codex I suggest dropping the hobby, because it means the gouge train is only going to get worse as GWs desperate thrashing continues.
I love the commander with the great coat...I hate that he's got only a puny little dagger..and I'm pretty sure there's no way you can have him hold a power sword or any other melee weapons without some slicin' and fiddling around with glue and greenstuff..and even then it'll look weird
Well I guess that puts paid to the whether the turret can actually function or not discussion!
Also, sci fi or no, what exactly is the suspension supposed to do when bolted together like that?!!
Who cares dude. Nobody studies these. Suspension wont work regardless. Its a model made by people who have nothing to do with mechanics. Get over it now I think. If you dont like it, you dont like it.
If you are gonna look for technical difficulties then stop looking at warhammer 40k once you have read the title. You will save yourself a lot of time and money if things like suspension bother you.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: I love the commander with the great coat...I hate that he's got only a puny little dagger..and I'm pretty sure there's no way you can have him hold a power sword or any other melee weapons without some slicin' and fiddling around with glue and greenstuff..and even then it'll look weird
The dagger hand looks separate from the coat arm. The dagger he's holding looks like part 59 on the bottom of sprue 2.
PuddlePirate wrote: Question. If these guys are to be their own army and seeing that stormtroopers have disappeared from the IG elite section, do we (IG) need to ally them in order to get stormtroopers?
I'm guessing the IG codex will have the rules for Storm Troopers still, but we won't know until the codex comes out a few weeks (or we get more leaks!).
*fingers crossed*
If they aren't in the codex I suggest dropping the hobby, because it means the gouge train is only going to get worse as GWs desperate thrashing continues.
Fully agree. Really hope it doesn't come to that and Stormtroopers are still in the guard book. Pretty confident but hey, this is GW
Well I guess that puts paid to the whether the turret can actually function or not discussion!
Also, sci fi or no, what exactly is the suspension supposed to do when bolted together like that?!!
Who cares dude. Nobody studies these. Suspension wont work regardless. Its a model made by people who have nothing to do with mechanics. Get over it now I think. If you dont like it, you dont like it.
If you are gonna look for technical difficulties then stop looking at warhammer 40k once you have read the title. You will save yourself a lot of time and money if things like suspension bother you.
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
"Nobody studies these", I totally disagree. Almost everyone does to varying degrees. Especially when it's simply modern science. Eldar and Necrons can get away with a lot because we assume it's out of our understanding. IG vehicles very much use technology we have now so it can destroy the cool-factor when you see something stupid.
That said, I don't actually know what is the problem with the Taurox suspension that Az is talking about. It has a big thick beam as the main suspension linkage, a bushing at the chassis side and a bushing at the track side and a shock absorber above. The main thing about the Taurox suspension is the track itself has no suspension and the vertical travel is tiny for an off road vehicle, so even though it has suspension, it does not have the suspension of an off road vehicle and would rattle like a bastard.
Well I guess that puts paid to the whether the turret can actually function or not discussion!
Also, sci fi or no, what exactly is the suspension supposed to do when bolted together like that?!!
Who cares dude. Nobody studies these. Suspension wont work regardless. Its a model made by people who have nothing to do with mechanics. Get over it now I think. If you dont like it, you dont like it.
If you are gonna look for technical difficulties then stop looking at warhammer 40k once you have read the title. You will save yourself a lot of time and money if things like suspension bother you.
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
"Nobody studies these", I totally disagree. Almost everyone does to varying degrees.
True, people study them, but no one will pick up this tank randomly if they see you using one and look at the suspension, motor, track width and fuel type etc. Its a bit over board.
TheSilo wrote: I was really expecting more than just Scions and Taurox. Did anyone else think that there'd be more than just these two units for a whole codex? Or is everything now the Imperial Knights style?
Well, there's also Commissars and I expect a few of the IG transport vehicles will be available to the MT too. Maybe a few other units, like Bullgryns. But yes, basically, new armies are going to be restricted to a very small range of models. GW just aren't going to sink a large investment into something new and untested.
At least with the new system of unit-light codexes which can be allied to other armies, we have a bit more opportunity to see new stuff. If they release an Adeptus Mechanicus, Arbites, Genestealer Cult or Kroot Mercenaries list, they will have to make a whole 'army' out of a couple of kits. This model lets them do that.
I get that they would be cautious about launching a whole new line out of the blue. But here's the thing, the MT codex costs $50. When they released Codex: Assassins, it cost about $5.00, and was about 15 pages and had four assassins. Codex: Catachans was like $15.00 and prolly 20-30 pages with a modified IG army list and extensive new jungle rules. MT is being launched as a whole new army with a $50 codex. If they wanted to test the waters, why not launch a $5.00 data-slate with rules for a storm trooper force and the new taurox model? Ebooks are perfect for launching small quantities of published products. Putting the money into publishing hard-cover codices priced at $50 seems insane to me. This isn't a two-year update to IG, it's coming out literally two weeks before the new IG codex. If the Scions and Taurox are in the Astra MIlitarum codex then fine, they'll still sell models, but the MT codex seems like such a weird waste of time and effort for a weak launch.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: I love the commander with the great coat...I hate that he's got only a puny little dagger..and I'm pretty sure there's no way you can have him hold a power sword or any other melee weapons without some slicin' and fiddling around with glue and greenstuff..and even then it'll look weird
The dagger hand looks separate from the coat arm. The dagger he's holding looks like part 59 on the bottom of sprue 2.
Just use a different hand.
Well, that's what I said; since there are no extra hand, I will need to chop the chainsword/powersword hand and fiddle around in the hopes it'll match and won't look horrible.
It's nice they put all the options in one kit, but it appears that if I want a commander with great coat, I'm 'stuck' with the dagger-of course the coat could work with another arm, but right now it seems to be a dagger hand only that fits
TheSilo wrote: I was really expecting more than just Scions and Taurox. Did anyone else think that there'd be more than just these two units for a whole codex? Or is everything now the Imperial Knights style?
Well, there's also Commissars and I expect a few of the IG transport vehicles will be available to the MT too. Maybe a few other units, like Bullgryns. But yes, basically, new armies are going to be restricted to a very small range of models. GW just aren't going to sink a large investment into something new and untested.
At least with the new system of unit-light codexes which can be allied to other armies, we have a bit more opportunity to see new stuff. If they release an Adeptus Mechanicus, Arbites, Genestealer Cult or Kroot Mercenaries list, they will have to make a whole 'army' out of a couple of kits. This model lets them do that.
I get that they would be cautious about launching a whole new line out of the blue. But here's the thing, the MT codex costs $50. When they released Codex: Assassins, it cost about $5.00, and was about 15 pages and had four assassins. Codex: Catachans was like $15.00 and prolly 20-30 pages with a modified IG army list and extensive new jungle rules. MT is being launched as a whole new army with a $50 codex. If they wanted to test the waters, why not launch a $5.00 data-slate with rules for a storm trooper force and the new taurox model? Ebooks are perfect for launching small quantities of published products. Putting the money into publishing hard-cover codices priced at $50 seems insane to me. This isn't a two-year update to IG, it's coming out literally two weeks before the new IG codex. If the Scions and Taurox are in the Astra MIlitarum codex then fine, they'll still sell models, but the MT codex seems like such a weird waste of time and effort for a weak launch.
I'm suprised there is a printed codex actualy. i was sure mt was fallowing the model of LoTD and =][=
Bus i suspect the tourox will be a dedicated transport option, along with the valkarie. The commisars will be an HQ choice, possibly the only HQ choice, and the storm troopers will be scoring elites.
Well I guess that puts paid to the whether the turret can actually function or not discussion!
Also, sci fi or no, what exactly is the suspension supposed to do when bolted together like that?!!
Who cares dude. Nobody studies these. Suspension wont work regardless. Its a model made by people who have nothing to do with mechanics. Get over it now I think. If you dont like it, you dont like it.
Actually, the same thing with the arms connected to the top of the track unit would at least look like it worked. I agree, nobody studies these, I spotted it a fractions of a second because I have a fething clue how things like this are supposed to work.
Interested what it is I need to "get over" as I was simply commentating on an earlier discussion based in something I'd observed and added a further observation of something else on the model that doesn't "work?"
If you are gonna look for technical difficulties then stop looking at warhammer 40k once you have read the title. You will save yourself a lot of time and money if things like suspension bother you.
Well thank you, oh patronising one, I can't believe I've wasted twenty five years being involved with 40K, only for your comments to cause the scales to fall from my eyes!
Or, alternately, I might just carry on, ignore your sage words, and just occasionally comment on things which jump out at me, and break my suspension of disbelief in a thread that is pertinent to those things?
I'm getting one ST box, perhaps two if they paint nicely!
But I really don't understand why people are so upset with the ST dex price. I agree that GW is grasping at straws but if all you want are the stats everything is already online. You can even buy the WD if you fell you have to give GW money for your ease of mind. For all I care GW can split the IG in five, as long as I only play with friends the worst it can happen is that I continue playing with the current dex.
On the other hand I pity TOs , with dataslates, codexes and codex supplements soon making a tournament list is going to be like a puzzle.
I wouldn't worry too much about the Storm troopers not being on the IG page on the website. The taurox isn't there either, and we know it will be part of the IG codex.
Is this the first hardcover stand-alone Codex that is direct only and English only?
Hope the rumours that everyone buying the Scions now for his IG army will have to buy the English 39€/50$ extra book to actually play them are nonsense. That would also make it the first stand-alone Codex that is not stand-alone.
Well I guess that puts paid to the whether the turret can actually function or not discussion!
Also, sci fi or no, what exactly is the suspension supposed to do when bolted together like that?!!
Spoiler:
Who cares dude. Nobody studies these. Suspension wont work regardless. Its a model made by people who have nothing to do with mechanics. Get over it now I think. If you dont like it, you dont like it.
Actually, the same thing with the arms connected to the top of the track unit would at least look like it worked. I agree, nobody studies these, I spotted it a fractions of a second because I have a fething clue how things like this are supposed to work.
Interested what it is I need to "get over" as I was simply commentating on an earlier discussion based in something I'd observed and added a further observation of something else on the model that doesn't "work?"
If you are gonna look for technical difficulties then stop looking at warhammer 40k once you have read the title. You will save yourself a lot of time and money if things like suspension bother you.
Well thank you, oh patronising one, I can't believe I've wasted twenty five years being involved with 40K, only for your comments to cause the scales to fall from my eyes!
Or, alternately, I might just carry on, ignore your sage words, and just occasionally comment on things which jump out at me, and break my suspension of disbelief in a thread that is pertinent to those things?
Good work Azreal, after 25 years you can feel pride in yourself about being able to spot technical faults in heroic scale vehicles made by a company whom makes models that resemble flying boxes and many others have little to no plausible way of working. Must be great, being able to point those out. I sure am jealous. Maybe after 25 years I hope I can be so cool and do it too! Jee Wizz Mister.
Due to my, apparently substantially, greater life experience, it is much easier for this to be broken for me. If you're of an age where toy cars have still played a greater part in your life than real ones, I understand why things wouldn't be as jarring for you, should you notice them.
Or are you somehow saying that a 1/72 scale model kit is somehow more or less subject to the laws of physics than a 1/38?
No heroic scale is very very unnatural. Surely as a human you can look at a cadian and realize that having hands and a head like that is not natural and will not work. Let alone a space marine. Heroic and true scale a different. So if you enjoy space marines, im sure you can let some technical faults slide. You may want to try true scale kits.
Also how do you explain transports if realism is so important that the suspension needs to be looked at?
Or are you somehow saying that a 1/72 scale model kit is somehow more or less subject to the laws of physics than a 1/38?
No heroic scale is very very unnatural. Surely as a human you can look at a cadian and realize that having hands and a head like that is not natural and will not work. Let alone a space marine. Heroic and true scale a different. So if you enjoy space marines, im sure you can let some technical faults slide. You may want to try true scale kits.
Also how do you explain transports if realism is so important that the suspension needs to be looked at?
If we were discussing how it would be impossible to fit 10 men into the back of the vehicle as it is modelled, you'd have a point.
But we're not, just like we aren't discussing that Cadian's head and hands are too big, we are discussing whether the details of the Taurox have internal logic, plausibility or consistency, which they don't. A more appropriate comparison would be if the Cadian's lasguns all had a 90 degree bend in them, which they obviously don't, but that could also be hand waved away by "sci-fi" and "made up." But the fact that guns, like vehicles, have real world, contemporary analogues, means anyone with even a basic knowledge of these things will know that something is inherently "wrong" and if they notice it, this may break their SoD, and this isn't really desirable in this context.
EDIT
I don't need to explain transports, they already exist as real world military vehicles, and there are numerous explanations in fluff, that while perhaps not bullet proof, go some way to explaining why, in the far future, the alternate ways of getting from A to B on the battlefield aren't always possible or desirable.
Also, please stop suggesting things "I might want to try" if I want recommendations on something, I'll start a thread in the appropriate forum. Thx!
Lets rewind the bitch fight a bit... what are you actually complaining about with the Taurox suspension?
The main thing I can see wrong with it is that it doesn't have enough travel and really the tracks themselves should have suspension rather than the entire assembly (but that's a problem with almost all IG vehicles).
Or are you somehow saying that a 1/72 scale model kit is somehow more or less subject to the laws of physics than a 1/38?
No heroic scale is very very unnatural. Surely as a human you can look at a cadian and realize that having hands and a head like that is not natural and will not work. Let alone a space marine. Heroic and true scale a different. So if you enjoy space marines, im sure you can let some technical faults slide. You may want to try true scale kits.
Also how do you explain transports if realism is so important that the suspension needs to be looked at?
If we were discussing how it would be impossible to fit 10 men into the back of the vehicle as it is modelled, you'd have a point.
But we're not, just like we aren't discussing that Cadian's head and hands are too big, we are discussing whether the details of the Taurox have internal logic, plausibility or consistency, which they don't. A more appropriate comparison would be if the Cadian's lasguns all had a 90 degree bend in them, which they obviously don't, but that could also be hand waved away by "sci-fi" and "made up." But the fact that guns, like vehicles, have real world, contemporary analogues, means anyone with even a basic knowledge of these things will know that something is inherently "wrong" and if they notice it, this may break their SoD, and this isn't really desirable in this context.
So your telling me realism only applies to this one vehicle? And not the whole model range? Ok so in other words you are limiting the argument to something where the best I can say is:
It is unrealistic like every single GW model piece made.
I am fairly sure by now, after 25 years you would know that.
So you have been in a car with 5 seats, traveled though a rough explosion filled terrain and come out alive? Because thats a 40k transport for you. Clown cars. If you find the cartoon clown cars realistic then yea I dont think you can comment on technical problems.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Lets rewind the bitch fight a bit... what are you actually complaining about with the Taurox suspension?
The main thing I can see wrong with it is that it doesn't have enough travel and really the tracks themselves should have suspension rather than the entire assembly (but that's a problem with almost all IG vehicles).
What problem are you talking about?
Exactly that, place the struts at the top of the track unit, it at least looks like it could travel up and down, as it sits, they'd just collide with or destroy the track guards.
Also, not a complaint, merely an observation, alongside the slightly more important one that the arc of fire, RAW, for the turret is directly ahead, as it cannot rotate left or right.
Exactly that, place the struts at the top of the track unit, it at least looks like it could travel up and down, as it sits, they'd just collide with or destroy the track guards.
Also, not a complaint, merely an observation, alongside the slightly more important one that the arc of fire, RAW, for the turret is directly ahead, as it cannot rotate left or right.
Because I hate it when people make stupid criticism about something stupid. So yes I will go wannabe Facist and find out why you would bother!
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Lets rewind the bitch fight a bit... what are you actually complaining about with the Taurox suspension?
The main thing I can see wrong with it is that it doesn't have enough travel and really the tracks themselves should have suspension rather than the entire assembly (but that's a problem with almost all IG vehicles).
What problem are you talking about?
Exactly that, place the struts at the top of the track unit, it at least looks like it could travel up and down, as it sits, they'd just collide with or destroy the track guards.
Also, not a complaint, merely an observation, alongside the slightly more important one that the arc of fire, RAW, for the turret is directly ahead, as it cannot rotate left or right.
It was a throw away line, but it does seem to have upset superswastika for some reason!
Yeah, I'm not sure why a comment about how realistic the suspension of the Taurox is equired a condemnation, especially since the comment was relatively neutral/non-inflammatory
I don't know if this has been commented on yet, but I see that the Imperial Guard tab on GW's website has begun to undergo some changes. Rough Riders are gone from Fast Attack. There are also no more kasrkin under the Elites tab.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Lets rewind the bitch fight a bit... what are you actually complaining about with the Taurox suspension?
The main thing I can see wrong with it is that it doesn't have enough travel and really the tracks themselves should have suspension rather than the entire assembly (but that's a problem with almost all IG vehicles).
What problem are you talking about?
Exactly that, place the struts at the top of the track unit, it at least looks like it could travel up and down, as it sits, they'd just collide with or destroy the track guards.
The strut position looks fine to me, it would need a control arm going from the chassis to the top of the track (which you can't see in the picture) that would make it basically like a double-a-arm system or if there is no top control arm, the bottom joint on the outboard side needs to be a solid joint. My only gripe is that the track guard is too close to the track, it means the whole suspension system only has a few inches of travel, and given the track itself has no suspension as is not soft like a tire would be, it would have a very rough ride.
Also, I can't see how the power gets from the engine to the track, though I guess there could be an axle inside that rectangular arm.
I think we're saying the same thing from differing perspective, my thinking was if the strut was affixed to the top of the track unit (by moving the track unit down) then there would be sufficient room for decent travel without taking the guard out.
All a bit odd, as this has sparked almost a page of redundant discussion, when the fact that you cannot aim the gun turret (meaning you've got to commit to your target in the move phase) has gone largely unremarked!
Got the White Dwarf today. Not only am I pleased at getting it weekly, the last few weeks have had great content. Today the new elite guardsmen are featured very well. I was sceptical when I saw the first pictures on Dakka Dakka, but man those are really nice figures, the transport is cool knowing you get to re-roll difficult terrain. I will, get a squad for sure, and the new vehicle. The contents of the boxes are great! I am stoked to add another unit to the guard I got for Christmas!
Kelly502 wrote: Got the White Dwarf today. Not only am I pleased at getting it weekly, the last few weeks have had great content. Today the new elite guardsmen are featured very well. I was sceptical when I saw the first pictures on Dakka Dakka, but man those are really nice figures, the transport is cool knowing you get to re-roll difficult terrain. I will, get a squad for sure, and the new vehicle. The contents of the boxes are great! I am stoked to add another unitto the guard I got for Christmas!
I got the WD as well, and pre-ordered 2 boxes of Scions; while I won't get the MT codex at freakin' 60$ (I'd rather wait for others to get it and give me the dirt on it- don't want a fluff book with 6 orders and that's it after all) the box having both the troop ANd the command option in it is a real nice buy..even if it's 8.40$CDN/model
Kelly502 wrote: Got the White Dwarf today. Not only am I pleased at getting it weekly, the last few weeks have had great content. Today the new elite guardsmen are featured very well. I was sceptical when I saw the first pictures on Dakka Dakka, but man those are really nice figures, the transport is cool knowing you get to re-roll difficult terrain. I will, get a squad for sure, and the new vehicle. The contents of the boxes are great! I am stoked to add another unitto the guard I got for Christmas!
Doing the same, the White Dwarf rules will get me by, and if the Scions codex is any good then maybe I will get that. But 10 Storm Troopers and 1 Truck will be a cool addition to my army.
Were I to get some of the Storm Troopers (Just prefer to call them that, personally), It'd be tough to blend them with my army. I guess I could just paint them up however I want, but it would be jarring to have a bunch of Vostroyans in their red greatcoats, bronze armor and giant furry hats backed up by a squad of random Storm Troopers.
I'm almost tempted to try something. Using my Vostroyans with the new White Dwarf stormtrooper rules. The Vostroyans have the (very) ornate Lasguns I could conceivably call Hotshot Lasguns, and they also have armor that resembles Carapace Armor across the board as well. Would be an interesting way to field my army to be sure. The only thing I wouldn't be able to adequately represent would be the Hot Shot Volleygun. Beyond that, it seems like they'd work very well as counts-as 'Scions'.
I may just try this, in the near future. We'll see. Would anyone have an issue with seeing Vostroyans being used to represent Scions?
Well the new models are nice except the Tank/Vehicle thing is dumb looking in my opinion. Just a funky truck thing but I won't be buying guard anyways haha
What exactly is the Altar of War book? Looks interesting but I haven't read anything about it on news and rumours. What kind of scenarios are they?
This is really nitpicky, but I hate that the scion's backpacks have the tent/cloak/coat whatever rolled up on the top. It makes the pack look....too big and awkward.
Though I think if I the MT can take a russ as heavy support, I am going to make an Ally detachment for my tau/marines using the Taurox, first GW vehicle model I have really liked in a while.
azreal13 wrote: ... alongside the slightly more important one that the arc of fire, RAW, for the turret is directly ahead, as it cannot rotate left or right.
azreal13 wrote: ... alongside the slightly more important one that the arc of fire, RAW, for the turret is directly ahead, as it cannot rotate left or right.
What makes you say that?
How close the turret is to a raised section on the back end. You can see it better from the side on the 360 angle on the items page.
Kelly502 wrote: Got the White Dwarf today. Not only am I pleased at getting it weekly, the last few weeks have had great content. Today the new elite guardsmen are featured very well. I was sceptical when I saw the first pictures on Dakka Dakka, but man those are really nice figures, the transport is cool knowing you get to re-roll difficult terrain. I will, get a squad for sure, and the new vehicle. The contents of the boxes are great! I am stoked to add another unitto the guard I got for Christmas!
Doing the same, the White Dwarf rules will get me by, and if the Scions codex is any good then maybe I will get that. But 10 Storm Troopers and 1 Truck will be a cool addition to my army.
If you are in only for the rules that's the clever move. Let GW keep the new "fluffy codexes" (worth crap) while we get the core rules in the WD.
Kelly502 wrote: Got the White Dwarf today. Not only am I pleased at getting it weekly, the last few weeks have had great content. Today the new elite guardsmen are featured very well. I was sceptical when I saw the first pictures on Dakka Dakka, but man those are really nice figures, the transport is cool knowing you get to re-roll difficult terrain. I will, get a squad for sure, and the new vehicle. The contents of the boxes are great! I am stoked to add another unitto the guard I got for Christmas!
Doing the same, the White Dwarf rules will get me by, and if the Scions codex is any good then maybe I will get that. But 10 Storm Troopers and 1 Truck will be a cool addition to my army.
If you are in only for the rules that's the clever move. Let GW keep the new "fluffy codexes" (worth crap) while we get the core rules in the WD.
M.
Agreed. I might boycott them as I think thats kinda stupid. So regardless of whats in the supplement I wont bother with it.
Also to people complaining about the price of the scions: $35 USD isn't that bad, considering Dire Avengers, Sternguard Veterans, Vanguard Veterans, and Deathwing Terminators. I mean the SM Combat squad is only $10 cheaper and has far fewer bits, as well as not being a dual kit.
Swastakowey wrote: It is unrealistic like every single GW model piece made.
Yes, but it's not about strict realism, it's about having things that feel plausible. I have a the FW Mars Alpha LRBT (which fixes a lot of the issues with the plastic kit) sitting on the shelf here, and it looks like a plausible tank at first glance. Yeah, there's no suspension, and the armor layout probably isn't very good, but it passes the "first glance" test. It looks like the result of someone with a decent idea of how real tanks work wanted to make a fictional tank with some WWI design influences. The Taurox, on the other hand, looks like a cheap toy designed by someone whose entire knowledge of tanks consists of spending a few minutes in the toy section at walmart. The proportions look wrong at first glance, and then when you start to look at the details you just find stuff that doesn't make any sense. It's a random cut and paste of various "tank-like" shapes, and not even very good ones.
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SlaveToDorkness wrote: At least this IG vehicle has an engine. The Chimera must run on foot power like a Flintstones car.
The Chimera's engines are in the side sections, inside the track loop.
PuddlePirate wrote: Question. If these guys are to be their own army and seeing that stormtroopers have disappeared from the IG elite section, do we (IG) need to ally them in order to get stormtroopers?
I'm guessing the IG codex will have the rules for Storm Troopers still, but we won't know until the codex comes out a few weeks (or we get more leaks!).
*fingers crossed*
If they aren't in the codex I suggest dropping the hobby, because it means the gouge train is only going to get worse as GWs desperate thrashing continues.
The gouge train began a while back. Someone at GW realized two things.
1. Models made by any company can be used to play the game even homemade ones.
2. Rules must come from GW.
Then someone went to work on how to sell more rule books. Such as selling a 72 page coffee table book for $50.00 that contains rules for a single squad of 10 models (or in one particular case, two versions of a single model). Or even worse, selling the same content online, without the construction or shipping costs, for the same amount!!!
I saw that train coming down the tracks when the hard cover editions began. I believe that before too long the "big" codexes will go away and all you'll see are these "unit specific" codexes causing you to spend five times more for rules to field the same size army.
1. Models made by any company can be used to play the game even homemade ones.
2. Rules must come from GW.
Which is funny, because a more sensible person might realize two very different things:
1) Models must be made by someone, and you can't get good models for free.
2) Anyone with an internet connection can pirate your rulebooks.
The obvious thing to do is focus on making money from the models and use high-quality rules, whether or not you make much (or any) money from them, to drive sales of those models. But I guess GW would rather get the short-term profit from selling a few more $50 zero-effort "books".
1. Models made by any company can be used to play the game even homemade ones.
2. Rules must come from GW.
Which is funny, because a more sensible person might realize two very different things:
1) Models must be made by someone, and you can't get good models for free.
2) Anyone with an internet connection can pirate your rulebooks.
The obvious thing to do is focus on making money from the models and use high-quality rules, whether or not you make much (or any) money from them, to drive sales of those models. But I guess GW would rather get the short-term profit from selling a few more $50 zero-effort "books".
Indeed, That's why I believe that this rapid fire/low effort production is here to stay. Too much competition on the model front and rules "piracy" within days of release. Technology has caught up with GW and they are not stable enough to weather the storm nor nimble enough to stay ahead of it.
Edit: the new "Alter of War" book is another example of this. It's just a cut and paste from existing stuff with a shiny $50.00 price tag.
ace101 wrote: Also to people complaining about the price of the scions: $35 USD isn't that bad, considering Dire Avengers, Sternguard Veterans, Vanguard Veterans, and Deathwing Terminators. I mean the SM Combat squad is only $10 cheaper and has far fewer bits, as well as not being a dual kit.
And it's just as ridiculous a price as for many of those other units, particularly Dire Avengers. They're on par with Forgeworld prices. $35 for 5 models was passable when it was for elite expensive units you wouldn't need many of and the models were metal. For plastic Troops? Absurd.
Maxurugi wrote: I think it's funny how everyone refers to the Taurox (Prime) as a tank, which it is not.
Many things in 40k are referred to as "tanks" when they in fact are not.
As an Army vet, its annoying, but not as annoying as calling a magazine a "clip."
ace101 wrote: Also to people complaining about the price of the scions: $35 USD isn't that bad, considering Dire Avengers, Sternguard Veterans, Vanguard Veterans, and Deathwing Terminators. I mean the SM Combat squad is only $10 cheaper and has far fewer bits, as well as not being a dual kit.
And it's just as ridiculous a price as for many of those other units, particularly Dire Avengers. They're on par with Forgeworld prices. $35 for 5 models was passable when it was for elite expensive units you wouldn't need many of and the models were metal. For plastic Troops? Absurd.
Remember These are elites in AM as well, they are cheaper per man than Sternguard, who are an elite unit in C:SM sold in a 5 man kit (and not the only one).
Okay, I think the Knight is much cooler than the Dreamforge Leviathan.
But that Loki is way better than the Turock or whatever its called.
It's not even close.
ace101 wrote: Also to people complaining about the price of the scions: $35 USD isn't that bad, considering Dire Avengers, Sternguard Veterans, Vanguard Veterans, and Deathwing Terminators. I mean the SM Combat squad is only $10 cheaper and has far fewer bits, as well as not being a dual kit.
And it's just as ridiculous a price as for many of those other units, particularly Dire Avengers. They're on par with Forgeworld prices. $35 for 5 models was passable when it was for elite expensive units you wouldn't need many of and the models were metal. For plastic Troops? Absurd.
Dire Avengers: Are also crap value.
Sternguard Veterans, Vanguard: Also crap value, though at least they're worth more points in game.
Terminators: Also crap value, but at least they're large infantry rather than regular sized infantry and at least they're worth a lot of points in game so you aren't going to need many of them.
SM Combat Squad: "Only" $10 cheaper is $5 per model vs $7 per model, that's 40% more expensive. Also, you can get SM 10 for $40, $4 per model, the ST are 75% more expensive per model.
Forge World: They're actually more expensive than the old FWDKOK Grenadiers. But yeah, similar price to a lot of other FW stuff. But since when do we consider a box of plastic models costing the same as FW resin an "okay" thing?
The artwork is nice, I actually do like most of it, and the fluff isn't too bad, seems like just a slight recasting of the original Stormtrooper fluff, though they are putting an amusingly large amount of effort into making an army of Ld7/8 dudes sound like the most desensitized, cold-hearted, unshakeable killing machines in existence...
I'm really hoping they get more than just an Ld bubble to help out on that, I know the DKoK special rules about 25% morale tests are the biggest factor in making an Grenadier based IA12 Assault Brigade work at all.
EDIT: as for the Org chart above, it looks like they ignored the Departmento Munitorum completely in the 6E rulebook as well...
Vaktathi wrote: EDIT: as for the Org chart above, it looks like they ignored the Departmento Munitorum completely in the 6E rulebook as well...
The Munitorum is part of the Imperial Guard. The chart in the 6th edition rulebook also lacks a Munitorum entry, but when you look under the Imperial Guard entry, the Munitorum is listed there, as a part of the Imperial Guard.
Or are you somehow saying that a 1/72 scale model kit is somehow more or less subject to the laws of physics than a 1/38?
No heroic scale is very very unnatural. Surely as a human you can look at a cadian and realize that having hands and a head like that is not natural and will not work. Let alone a space marine. Heroic and true scale a different. So if you enjoy space marines, im sure you can let some technical faults slide. You may want to try true scale kits.
Also how do you explain transports if realism is so important that the suspension needs to be looked at?
If we were discussing how it would be impossible to fit 10 men into the back of the vehicle as it is modelled, you'd have a point.
But we're not, just like we aren't discussing that Cadian's head and hands are too big, we are discussing whether the details of the Taurox have internal logic, plausibility or consistency, which they don't. A more appropriate comparison would be if the Cadian's lasguns all had a 90 degree bend in them, which they obviously don't, but that could also be hand waved away by "sci-fi" and "made up." But the fact that guns, like vehicles, have real world, contemporary analogues, means anyone with even a basic knowledge of these things will know that something is inherently "wrong" and if they notice it, this may break their SoD, and this isn't really desirable in this context.
EDIT
I don't need to explain transports, they already exist as real world military vehicles, and there are numerous explanations in fluff, that while perhaps not bullet proof, go some way to explaining why, in the far future, the alternate ways of getting from A to B on the battlefield aren't always possible or desirable.
Also, please stop suggesting things "I might want to try" if I want recommendations on something, I'll start a thread in the appropriate forum. Thx!
This. I am so tired of hearing the "it doesn't have to make sense" argument for EVERYTHING.
SlaveToDorkness wrote: At least this IG vehicle has an engine. The Chimera must run on foot power like a Flintstones car.
Made me laugh out loud, thank you Sir!
Always thought that the engine might be hidden away in the back somewhere like a VW camper. And, with equal levels of reliability, "everyone out lads, push!"
Seriously though, I've always thought it's better to think of 40k as a 'space fantasy', rather than sci-fi. There has only ever been the most tenuous link to the world of physics in terms of how things are supposed to actually function.
I guess if you completely ignore that copyright law exists, then sure.
But here in the real world, where there is government enforced monopolies over the distribution of copyrighted content and you have a de facto sole legitimate distributor on the marketplace, yeah, gouging exists. Stop being a Randroid and look at the actual government system we have rather than your textbook capitalist fantasy world, please. We live under a mixed economic system, and believe it or not, the government is a party to every legitimate transaction.
TedNugent wrote: But here in the real world, where there is government enforced monopolies over the distribution of copyrighted content and you have a de facto sole legitimate distributor on the marketplace, yeah, gouging exists. Stop being a Randroid and look at the actual government system we have rather than your textbook capitalist fantasy world, please. We live under a mixed economic system, and believe it or not, the government is a party to every legitimate transaction.
No, gouging is not relevant here. Gouging applies only to essential goods and services, and there is no plausible definition of "essential" that includes toys like GW produces. Gouging is selling $1 bottles of water for $100 in the aftermath of a natural disaster that shut down the entire city's water supply, not charging more than you want to pay for a toy.
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/03/another-leaked-image-for-militarum.html?m=1
). Not a big fan of the way it looks, and doesn't really fill a need for my 
