shasolenzabi wrote: I am amused that they showcased a variant of the model, but used one that is obviously warped due to being taken out of the mold still too hot and not allowed to cool, settle, and hold a better shape, I had some deformed Tau devilfish like that, but 30 bucks per devilfish, and greenstuff, no need to complain.
Likely they will charge a lot more for that beast and I am sorry, but it is already ugly enough as sin for the insane overcharge it will likely have attached to be sold in such poor condition. Of course they are counting on enough little Timmies who won't know quality vs crap to help push the things, as well as some of the fanbase here who know better, but still drool over that abomination worthy only of Orkification (which would be my only reason for spending cash for it).
So, are the Imperial Guard still getting a new codex? Or is it just this new stormtrooper supplement? I mean, I love the new models( yes, even the taurox) but if I don't get a new codex im gonna feel cheated...
BlackTemplar1 wrote: So, are the Imperial Guard still getting a new codex? Or is it just this new stormtrooper supplement? I mean, I love the new models( yes, even the taurox) but if I don't get a new codex im gonna feel cheated...
"So we have a Codex Astra Militarum (better known as Imperial Guard), release probably second week.
Then a mail order only Codex Militarum Tempestus (better known as Stormtroops Supplement).
Stormtroopers (Command and "Scions")
Big Transport (Taurox for IG, Taurox Prime for Stormtroopers)
Ogryn/Bullgryn box (probably 3, Bullgryns armoured)
Hydra (anti-air tank)"
ultimentra wrote: Anyone else having deja-vu from the whole Centurion debacle? Everyone was like "Rah rah rah these are gak and terrible and made of AIDS and pig disgusting rah rah rah" when the pics first came out with terrible color schemes. Then when better pics came out people were like, "oh okay."
I think its a funny and interesting development.
Nope. the Centurians, the Taurox, the Stormtalen, and the Imperial Knight (Titan) are all still fugly models in my book. From day 1 to day 10,000.
I have to say, I was not keen when the pics were first leaked but having seen it from new angles and featuring more interesting paint jobs... I like it!
As for knocking centurions, as with the High Elf phoenix in my book, I'd go as far as to say they look great in person... yet pics never seem to do them justice?
GuardRalph wrote: Hmmm, looks good. Like it so far, good twist on what we have seen before.
thanks friend.
Automatically Appended Next Post: a quick paint job. would look much better IMO with an extra little tread in the center, then it won't look so top-heavy.
I'm an IG collector through and through. I love the look of the Scions and can't wait to pick some up and see what I can do with them.
The Taurox though...
I want to actually have the model in front of me because I'd like to judge if the turret would be suitable to kitbash a command variant Chimera. I can't at present see myself wanting to have a Taurox. It just doesn't look right.
ultimentra wrote: Anyone else having deja-vu from the whole Centurion debacle? Everyone was like "Rah rah rah these are gak and terrible and made of AIDS and pig disgusting rah rah rah" when the pics first came out with terrible color schemes. Then when better pics came out people were like, "oh okay."
I think its a funny and interesting development.
Nope. the Centurians, the Taurox, the Stormtalen, and the Imperial Knight (Titan) are all still fugly models in my book. From day 1 to day 10,000.
Agreed on everything but the knight, here. The ugliest thing about the knight is the price tag in my opinion. And I'll add the stormraven to the list, too...even though funnily enough I actually kinda liked it at first, but grew to hate it after a while.
Not only do I still find the Taurox ugly, but judging from the examples they've deemed worthy of showcasing, I'd be really worried about the quality of that kit if I were about to fork out $50 for it because of all the warped parts I can see.
GuardRalph wrote: Hmmm, looks good. Like it so far, good twist on what we have seen before.
thanks friend.
Automatically Appended Next Post: a quick paint job. would look much better IMO with an extra little tread in the center, then it won't look so top-heavy.
Hmmm, strangely compelling.
Is there a reverse law of diminishing returns on silly looking tracks? There must be.......
Now someone paint that sucker white and put some Valhallans next to it.
The Taurox does not grow on me at all. It looks like a huge monster truck cab... doesn't matter if you put wheels on it or not and if you are doing that much converting anyway why not just get something else...
I would maybe use it for some paramilitary 40k thing like Arbites or as an Ash Wastes vehicle. Thank you GW for sparing my wallet, if you had come out with some sensible large tank transport (was hoping for something CRASSUS-like here) or a slightly larger tank to the Leman then I'd have no defense and have to get it...
The scions are kind of just okay. Of course out of all the plastic kits they could have done that people would have just eaten up like candy (greatcoats in particular) they have to do the one that nobody really cares or gives a feth about. I can see some uses for their bits though, especially those backpacks and guns. There are already a thousand third party heads in berets so that I really really don't care.
Meade wrote: The Taurox does not grow on me at all. It looks like a huge monster truck cab... doesn't matter if you put wheels on it or not and if you are doing that much converting anyway why not just get something else...
Depending on how the tracks attach, it could be a lot of work or it could be virtually nothing.
I would maybe use it for some paramilitary 40k thing like Arbites or as an Ash Wastes vehicle. Thank you GW for sparing my wallet, if you had come out with some sensible large tank transport (was hoping for something CRASSUS-like here) or a slightly larger tank to the Leman then I'd have no defense and have to get it...
Do you realize how big the Crassus actually is?
I mean, I love my Crassus but it is hardly conducive to being a "40k general" transport...plus what would you realistically use it to transport? A squad of 5 Ogryn would take up half its carrying capacity--that's it.
The scions are kind of just okay. Of course out of all the plastic kits they could have done that people would have just eaten up like candy (greatcoats in particular) they have to do the one that nobody really cares or gives a feth about. I can see some uses for their bits though, especially those backpacks and guns. There are already a thousand third party heads in berets so that I really really don't care.
Their goal isn't necessarily to do the kits that "people would eat up like candy", but to get rid of the need for them to still have metal/Finecast production.
Why do you think they did Ogryn and Stormtroopers?
Plus anyone who thinks that they were going to add a third plastic Troop choice (which would necessitate a third plastic Command Squad box and a third plastic Heavy Weapons Team box) was going to be disappointed anyways.
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HisDivineShadow wrote: At 48$ this thing is not going to be huge from the pics it looks barely bigger then a chimera. Possibly only taller.
It does in fact seem only to be taller, maybe slightly longer.
Depending on how the tracks attach, it could be a lot of work or it could be virtually nothing.
That is a good point. if there are pre-defined axles the wheels might go on easy.
Do you realize how big the Crassus actually is?
I mean, I love my Crassus but it is hardly conducive to being a "40k general" transport...plus what would you realistically use it to transport? A squad of 5 Ogryn would take up half its carrying capacity--that's it.
Sure, but riptides, knights, and wraithknights? I really meant something along the lines of the same aesthetic... an armored bunker type front with an assault ramp door in the front. A 20 man transport is very reasonable, especially when we are talking guard blobs.
Their goal isn't necessarily to do the kits that "people would eat up like candy", but to get rid of the need for them to still have metal/Finecast production.
Why do you think they did Ogryn and Stormtroopers?
Plus anyone who thinks that they were going to add a third plastic Troop choice (which would necessitate a third plastic Command Squad box and a third plastic Heavy Weapons Team box) was going to be disappointed anyways.
good point too... but in that case I would have been happier to buy plastic kasrkin then what they came out with, at least it goes with the Cadian aesthetic, but what they came out with is a medieval armor type that does not go well with a lot of the range outside inquisitorial stuff. Yes they have two plastic ranges but Catachans are hopelessly outdated. And the other troops do have metal command squads already, like Vostroyans and Steel Legion but also could be moved to plastic production. All they would need is a simple kit with options. I guess the ranges will just be dropped then? All I'm saying is I don't see the logic.
I'm hoping the scions are totally modular and not monoppose figures, so you can stick the arms and legs onto cadian bodies...That will make them almost exactly like the Kasrkin.
I'm hoping the scions are totally modular and not monoppose figures, so you can stick the arms and legs onto cadian bodies...That will make them almost exactly like the Kasrkin.
That could be a saving grace of the box. Five full Scions and enough bits left over to convert some Cadian Grenadiers/ Kasrkin depending on what rules and options IG end up with.
The arms at least have got to be separate based on all the different builds on display in the pictures. Could be that the torsos and legs are all one piece, though. Even if they aren't, there'll probably be shenanigans with the side plates at waist level making the torsos not fit cadian legs / the legs not fit cadian torsos etc, so if you've got big plans for kitbashing them (I do) I'd wait and see the sprue pictures on friday on the GW site.
I was thinking that any truck-like vehicle with treads have it so it is narrower at the top than the bottom.
I really think that would improve the look.
It just seems strange to see all that tread and supports with so little support on the business end, it just looks pointless to use tracks and top-heavy.
Call-out to photoshop with the treads flipped?
Do you realize how big the Crassus actually is?
I mean, I love my Crassus but it is hardly conducive to being a "40k general" transport...plus what would you realistically use it to transport? A squad of 5 Ogryn would take up half its carrying capacity--that's it.
Sure, but riptides, knights, and wraithknights? I really meant something along the lines of the same aesthetic... an armored bunker type front with an assault ramp door in the front. A 20 man transport is very reasonable, especially when we are talking guard blobs.
So basically, you want the Crassus but not a Crassus. I see...
Plus I really don't understand the fascination with assault ramps for Guard vehicles.
Their goal isn't necessarily to do the kits that "people would eat up like candy", but to get rid of the need for them to still have metal/Finecast production.
Why do you think they did Ogryn and Stormtroopers?
Plus anyone who thinks that they were going to add a third plastic Troop choice (which would necessitate a third plastic Command Squad box and a third plastic Heavy Weapons Team box) was going to be disappointed anyways.
good point too... but in that case I would have been happier to buy plastic kasrkin then what they came out with, at least it goes with the Cadian aesthetic, but what they came out with is a medieval armor type that does not go well with a lot of the range outside inquisitorial stuff.
Which was the point. They wanted something new that players wouldn't just be able to readily convert or buy cheap on the second hand market. Why do you think they added a new special weapon choice to the Scions in the form of the "volley hotshot lasgun"? Or the vox-operator, or the standard bearer?
As it stands now, depending on how the volley hotshot lasgun and how it can be distributed is I have earmarked 8 of my Kasrkin to be potentially converted with "volley" versions of the hotshot lasgun.
Yes they have two plastic ranges but Catachans are hopelessly outdated. And the other troops do have metal command squads already, like Vostroyans and Steel Legion but also could be moved to plastic production. All they would need is a simple kit with options. I guess the ranges will just be dropped then? All I'm saying is I don't see the logic.
The logic is that the other troops never really sold well, despite what people would have you believe. The fact that they still have metal versions in stock--and shipping within 24 hours no less, meaning they're not being cast up to order--kind of puts that to bed.
I got a copy of White Dwarf issue 9 at the local comic book store..
Taurox is 50 points, BS 3 11-10-10, HP3, Vehicle (transport), comes with a twin-linked autocannon, has a capacity of 10 men, has two fire points on each side of the hull and three access points. It's got access to all the usual vehicle upgrades, nothing new there.
Special rule: All-terrain APC (Re-roll all failed dangerous terrain tests)
Taurox Prime is 80 points, BS 4, 11-10-10, HP 3, Vehicle (Fast, transport), comes with a battle cannon (48", S7 AP4, heavy 1, blast) and a twin-linked hot-shot volley gun (24", S4 AP3, Salvo 2/4), same capacity and firing points. May replace battle cannon with gatling cannon (24" S4 AP- heavy 10) for 10 pts, missile launcher (frag & krak, heavy 2) at 20 pts and may swap the volley guns with a twin-linked autocannon for free.
Kit comes with two crew members and a full interior.
Storm trooper platoon is made up of one command squad and between one and three storm trooper squads.
Regular squads, stat-wise these guys are the same, five men for 70 pts, 12 pts per model, two men may swap their hellguns for the usual stuff or a volley gun at 10 pts. One guy may take a vox caster at 5 pts. The sergeant may take a power weapon (15 pts!) or power fist (25 pts!), plasma pistol (15 pts) or bolt pistol (free). Squads come with deep-strike and move through cover, special operations appears to be gone. They may take a Taurox or Chimera as a transport.
Command squad; Officer has I4(!), 2 wounds and Ld9, may take the same upgrades as the sergeant, same price. All models that have not been upgraded to specialists (medic = 15 pts, standard bearer = 10 pts, vox operator = 5 pts) may take a special weapon. Special rules are Clarion vox-net (Friendly units within 18" of the officer may use his Ld for any fear, morale or pinning tests) and Voice of Command (Officer is treated like a junior officer and may issue one order per turn with a radius of 12", no orders listed, though it references codex: IMPERIAL GUARD, so no new orders?).
Red text-box is interesting.
The upgrades : dozer blade, extra armour and camo net are down 5 points from the V5 codex cost. Looking to see such prices in regular IG regiment codex.
Profiles for scions weapons.
The taurox prime is a complete abomination from both model and rules standpoints.
The price of a Devilfish for this... joke.
OK the twin-linked hot-shot volleyguns with BS:4 will score almost certainly 4 hits at STR:4 AP:3 but that's it. Plus they are hull-monted. Not so clever for such a vehicle, potentially having to expose its AV:10 flanks for aiming at a target.
On the other hand, the stortroopers (tempestus scions 'scuse...) are potentially good this time.
The taurox prime is a complete abomination from both model and rules standpoints.
The price of a Devilfish for this... joke.
It's better than the price of a devilfish for a devilfish .
You can't be serious...
The Devilfish has much better armour, it's immune to bolter fire except from rear, has a permanent 5+ cover save (which can be augmented).
It carries serious STR:5 firepower and 2 drones that can overwatch or annoy your opponent once detached.
Tau army can play well wihout the Devilfish, it does not mean it is a bad vehicle, plus it has a sleek fine futuristic look.
Taurox prime is bad from every point of view. Regular Taurox is barely playable.
As for the actual rules I think they're pretty solid. For 100pts you can get a fast tank that re-rolls terrain that has 2 TL-St7 and 2 BS4 St8 shots. That's pretty nice actually. And has transport capacity.
Though for saturation you're probably better off running 2 of the regular ones.
I am realizing now that the Taurox is essentially GWs (horrible) attempt to mimick the CHIMEDON Chimera with a battlecannon in the turret, CHIMERRO The Chimerro is a standard Chimera with additional Hunter-Killer missiles, CHIMERAX Quad autocannons for use against ground and air targets, in order to get more $$$$ from gamers instead of redesigning a new chimera kit with options.... Sadness.
Also, the Cadian studio army may or may not have received a more cartoony paintjob: Khaki shirts, dark green trousers, and light green armour with brown stripes.
The taurox prime is a complete abomination from both model and rules standpoints.
The price of a Devilfish for this... joke.
It's better than the price of a devilfish for a devilfish .
You can't be serious...
The Devilfish has much better armour, it's immune to bolter fire except from rear, has a permanent 5+ cover save (which can be augmented).
It carries serious STR:5 firepower and 2 drones that can overwatch or annoy your opponent once detached.
Tau army can play well wihout the Devilfish, it does not mean it is a bad vehicle, plus it has a sleek fine futuristic look.
Taurox prime is bad from every point of view. Regular Taurox is barely playable.
Also interesting that storm troops have a platoon option in the new IG book. They no longer are single units. And the cost for deepstriking killers isn't bad either. 90pts for 2 deepstriking meltas with no dangerous tests for landing in terrain.
Additionally they dropped 15pts for the base squad and 4pts for each additional model (so 25%). If they function like IG platoons and are a single reserve roll it could be fun, especially with the command squad giving out orders on the drop.
I am really liking the rules for the Taurox Prime. For 95 points (Gatling+Heavy Stubber upgrades) you get 4 S4 AP3 shots, 10 TL S4 AP- shots, and 3 S4 AP6 shots, all at a glorious BS4. Maybe not quite a Venom, but still quite beastly.
145 points for a Scion Command Squad with full plasma has been making my eyes water, a bit late to the anti-Riptide crisis but still quite nice nonetheless. Combined with a Servo Skull Inquisitor and Psyoccolum, well the unit becomes basically broken.
D6 scatter from a servo skull, fire at a unit with Psykers in, like a psychic MC, or Farseer unit, or anything, and wipe them out with BS10 plasma.
The taurox prime is a complete abomination from both model and rules standpoints. The price of a Devilfish for this... joke.
It's better than the price of a devilfish for a devilfish .
You can't be serious...
The Devilfish has much better armour, it's immune to bolter fire except from rear, has a permanent 5+ cover save (which can be augmented). It carries serious STR:5 firepower and 2 drones that can overwatch or annoy your opponent once detached. Tau army can play well wihout the Devilfish, it does not mean it is a bad vehicle, plus it has a sleek fine futuristic look. Taurox prime is bad from every point of view. Regular Taurox is barely playable.
Dude, calm down, he was making a joke.
A joke that's true. The devilfish is to expensive. It has S5, with a maximum range of 18". It can upgrade (for ten points) to have SMS, but at that point it's 90 points. It has OK armour, but it can't do anything. It's often more expensive then the unit it is transporting. The Taurox Prime is faster than it and better armed than it. The only things that the devilfish has above it is AV, it's a skimmer, and it can transport two extra people.
The taurox prime is a complete abomination from both model and rules standpoints.
The price of a Devilfish for this... joke.
It's better than the price of a devilfish for a devilfish .
You can't be serious...
The Devilfish has much better armour, it's immune to bolter fire except from rear, has a permanent 5+ cover save (which can be augmented).
It carries serious STR:5 firepower and 2 drones that can overwatch or annoy your opponent once detached.
Tau army can play well wihout the Devilfish, it does not mean it is a bad vehicle, plus it has a sleek fine futuristic look.
Taurox prime is bad from every point of view. Regular Taurox is barely playable.
Dude, calm down, he was making a joke.
Huh OK, sorry he was not serious after all.
Need to take a step back, I'm overwhelmed with disappointment with the Taurox.
It might not even deserve the hassle to take an alternative miniature.
Tauroxes are both ugly and overcosted, but at least suicide melta squads got 15pts cheaper.
Some of those over costed options make me somewhat concerned for the guard dex. Here's hoping Im wrong that GW is going to make incomplete books in order to sell formations and micro transaction BS.
I'm happy that Stormtroopers now have platoons, as it frees up elites slots for Marbo and Ogryn while I can still bring 30 of them. The Command Squad might be nice as well as otherwise ST typically drop outside of orders range.
Kind of gutted they lost the Special Operations, though. Outflank was always a neat option and re-rolling DS was awesome. Losing the pistol+ccw is also a blow.
Still, at 12ppm, I can bring loads. Pretty happy with this change overall, and good to see evidence of platoons and orders staying just about the same (assuming they aren't going to invalidate these rules a week after publication)
I can't see the Taurox being that useful. Too fragile for the points and could only work en masse.
Yeah, the plasma pistol/power weapon/power fist pricing is moronic, the platoon standard is probably just as gak as it previously was and Incoming/Move Move Move is of questionable use, but there is definitely some good things going on here.
The Taurox Prime I think will be quite a bastion of firepower outfitted properly, and I think the Scions will prove mental with an Inquisitor.
Tauroxes are both ugly and overcosted, but at least suicide melta squads got 15pts cheaper.
Some of those over costed options make me somewhat concerned for the guard dex. Here's hoping Im wrong that GW is going to make incomplete books in order to sell formations and micro transaction BS.
Dude, I've not noticed that on the first glance. I'm so shocked. Plasma pistol and above that, close combat weapons priced at space marines cost. This is outrageous !
It will certainly be the same for the platoon. Platoon CC-capable blob is dead.
You can have one Stormtrooper command squad per elite slot basically. They just require a 5-man normal trooper squad.
And there is something kinda funny depending on how the stormtrooper codex turns out. 50 Deepstriking kill teams (assuming melta) and 10 Taurox are only 1400pts Still leaves plenty of points for allies or other silliness
I find it amusing that they make a point that all Stormtroopers carry a dagger in the fluff text.....and then in the rules they don't have a CCW. ( I know, technically all models have 1, they just don't have an official CCW for 2 attacks purposes....but still, you think they would to make them more elite).
Hulksmash wrote: Also interesting that storm troops have a platoon option in the new IG book. They no longer are single units. And the cost for deepstriking killers isn't bad either. 90pts for 2 deepstriking meltas with no dangerous tests for landing in terrain.
Additionally they dropped 15pts for the base squad and 4pts for each additional model (so 25%). If they function like IG platoons and are a single reserve roll it could be fun, especially with the command squad giving out orders on the drop.
This looks to me a way to tempt players who like to play veteran IG troops rather than the normal hordes to change armies. To deep strike or use a "fast" transport does look like an objective grabbing army this is "elite lite", I am assuming they are "normal" troop choices.
My assumption was for the codex supposedly coming out. I figured if they are the primary detachment they score. If they are actual troops in the codex that would be awesome but it's unlikely since then they'd be amazing allies. Imagine any of the other "Codexes" like Knights, LotD, or Inquisition being primary and counting as scoring and then adding these. I'm betting they are just Elite choices that score if primary.
the Taurox looks unfortunately to be somewhat dead on arrival, unless they murdered the Chimera the Taurox just seems pointless. Meanwhile the Taurox Prime seems to suffer the problem of putting too much on too fragile a platform, a 100pt missile Rhino isn't going to strike too many people's fancy.
I'm hoping the volleygun is an indicator as to what will happen to Hotshot lasguns, S3 and 18" just isn't usable.
I'm disappointed they remained WS3 and Ld7/8 and lost the pistol/CCW combo, these should be the best guys in the Imperium outside the Space Marines, as opposed to just being upgunned Guardsmen. At 12ppm, unless they made the Hotshot Lagun *real* sweet, they still look expensive for what they offer.
I'm happy they're available in platoons, that's super cool though, and something I've looked forward to for years.
I'm hoping the volleygun is an indicator as to what will happen to Hotshot lasguns, S3 and 18" just isn't usable.
The hotshot lasgun is not displayed in red text-box of WD p.22.
As I feared, it simply means you have to refer to BRB where the hotshot lasgun is described along with other laser type weapons.
In short : its profile is unchanged, unfortunately.
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BrookM wrote: Storm trooper platoons are storm trooper codex only people. The regular codex will only be able to field single squads of storm troopers.
No.
Leaked next WD p.24 states :
Militarum tempestus platoons are an elite choice for Codex : Imperial Guard.
(Plus the platoon composition of 1-3 squads + 0-1 command squad).
BrookM wrote: Storm trooper platoons are storm trooper codex only people. The regular codex will only be able to field single squads of storm troopers.
No.
Leaked next WD p.24 states :
Militarum tempestus platoons are an elite choice for Codex : Imperial Guard.
(Plus the platoon composition of 1-3 squads + 0-1 command squad).
Oddly enough, codex: Imperial Guard will cease to be in a few weeks though.
BrookM wrote: Storm trooper platoons are storm trooper codex only people. The regular codex will only be able to field single squads of storm troopers.
No. Leaked next WD p.24 states : Militarum tempestus platoons are an elite choice for Codex : Imperial Guard. (Plus the platoon composition of 1-3 squads + 0-1 command squad).
Yep, beat me to it.
I'm excited, it's blown my plans wide open. 3 squads of stormtroopers in one slot with (correct me if I'm wrong) a nice little points cost drop? Admittedly, with a bit of a command squad tax, but all the same, I'm all over it. Exciting stuff.
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BrookM wrote: Oddly enough, codex: Imperial Guard will cease to be in a few weeks though.
Good try but there's no way this implies what you're saying it implies.
BrookM wrote: Storm trooper platoons are storm trooper codex only people. The regular codex will only be able to field single squads of storm troopers.
What are you talking about? Look back at WD scan, at top of it clearly states Scions are an elites choice for codex imperial guard & each elites choice is 1 to 3 squads (of 5 to 10 men) & an optional command squad of 5! In essence, 105 scions can be in a guard army (3 elites, each with 3 ten man squads & a command of 5)!
You are not even forced to buy the tempestus command squad.
But this squad gives nice LD bonuses, and a full platoon, made of minimal sized squads appropriately equipped will certainly be a powerful MSU strike force.
BrookM wrote: Storm trooper platoons are storm trooper codex only people. The regular codex will only be able to field single squads of storm troopers.
What are you talking about? Look back at WD scan, at top of it clearly states Scions are an elites choice for codex imperial guard & each elites choice is 1 to 3 squads (of 5 to 10 men) & an optional command squad of 5! In essence, 105 scions can be in a guard army (3 elites, each with 3 ten man squads & a command of 5)!
I think what BrookM is hinting at is that we have seen the cover for Codex:Astra Militarum that will soon replace Codex : Imperial Guard. We do not know at present if the new book will allow Scion platoons. Of course, the wording in Codex Tempestus could say Scions are elite for Codex:AM
I could see where he was coming from. But I wouldn't think GW would say grab a platoon for your IG army. Oh....can't use a platoon in an IG army that's been renamed
But I could see where he was coming from. I think the standard Taurox is fine. There are give and takes between it and the chimera but I think they are costed appropriately. I do wish the Prime had been 10-15pts cheaper or the weapon upgrades cheaper but I can still see a use for them.
Hulksmash wrote: I could see where he was coming from. But I wouldn't think GW would say grab a platoon for your IG army. Oh....can't use a platoon in an IG army that's been renamed
I've already notified my favourite mod, let's just keep calm and carry on. Though I am sure that wrongful statement I made will be requoted by overeager childer for some time to come. Oy vey!
Only sad thing about the new storm trooper squads is the rather overpriced power weaponry, good luck swinging that sword when everybody and their mum hits faster than you sarge!
Upgraded, its an 80-100pts AV11 vehicle with no additional save. That looks incredibly fragile, and not even cheap enough to spam effectively for saturation.
The base one is at least cheaper (slightly) with slightly better firepower. Eh, I'll still be taking Chimeras.
kronk wrote: 25 point power fists for Imperial Guard are as silly as 15 point plasma pistols for... anyone!
Both are 10 points too high.
Indeed, particularly in an Imperial Guard list when those extra 10pts here and there can be spent on lascannons elsewhere, etc. If you want your stormtroopers to have shiny swords, the option's there, but the smart thing is to stow that stuff and load them up with shootybang instead
kronk wrote: 25 point power fists for Imperial Guard are as silly as 15 point plasma pistols for... anyone!
Both are 10 points too high.
Indeed, particularly in an Imperial Guard list when those extra 10pts here and there can be spent on lascannons elsewhere, etc. If you want your stormtroopers to have shiny swords, the option's there, but the smart thing is to stow that stuff and load them up with shootybang instead
Perhaps it's GW's way of bringing balance to an army full of low S, high AP weaponry?
Upgraded, its an 80-100pts AV11 vehicle with no additional save. That looks incredibly fragile, and not even cheap enough to spam effectively for saturation.
The base one is at least cheaper (slightly) with slightly better firepower. Eh, I'll still be taking Chimeras.
I wonder if it being a Fast vehicle with essentially a dozer blade (re-rolling failed Terrain tests) will enable to Prime to get easy cover saves--making it hardier than it appears on paper. Would be interesting to test out. I am especially curious how the Ogryns will work with the Prime (if they can use it at all) because that might make for a fun delivery system for the brutes.
Indeed, particularly in an Imperial Guard list when those extra 10pts here and there can be spent on lascannons elsewhere, etc. If you want your stormtroopers to have shiny swords, the option's there, but the smart thing is to stow that stuff and load them up with shootybang instead
Perhaps it's GW's way of bringing balance to an army full of low S, high AP weaponry?
What, by hoping people will nerf themselves by giving out overpriced melee weapons to their troops like they're candy bars?
I wonder if it being a Fast vehicle with essentially a dozer blade (re-rolling failed Terrain tests) will enable to Prime to get easy cover saves--making it hardier than it appears on paper. Would be interesting to test out. I am especially curious how the Ogryns will work with the Prime (if they can use it at all) because that might make for a fun delivery system for the brutes.
Eh, I think that's a bit of a stretch, and more situational than other durable vehicles, like the Wave Serpent.
I'm not getting my hopes up for it.
Then again, I hate the model anyways, so I wouldn't use it if it was AV13/13/11 with an executioner plasma cannon for 40pts.
Indeed, particularly in an Imperial Guard list when those extra 10pts here and there can be spent on lascannons elsewhere, etc. If you want your stormtroopers to have shiny swords, the option's there, but the smart thing is to stow that stuff and load them up with shootybang instead
Perhaps it's GW's way of bringing balance to an army full of low S, high AP weaponry?
What, by hoping people will nerf themselves by giving out overpriced melee weapons to their troops like they're candy bars?
It would make the squad leaders slightly more useful, I'm pretty pissed that the sergeants and platoon commanders cannot take rifles like the rest of their squad.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DarkTraveler777 wrote: I wonder if it being a Fast vehicle with essentially a dozer blade (re-rolling failed Terrain tests) will enable to Prime to get easy cover saves--making it hardier than it appears on paper. Would be interesting to test out. I am especially curious how the Ogryns will work with the Prime (if they can use it at all) because that might make for a fun delivery system for the brutes.
The Taurox does come with a comically oversized circular rear hatch and two doors on the side, making it a wee bit friendlier than a Chimera in terms of getting out.
Hulksmash wrote: My assumption was for the codex supposedly coming out. I figured if they are the primary detachment they score. If they are actual troops in the codex that would be awesome but it's unlikely since then they'd be amazing allies. Imagine any of the other "Codexes" like Knights, LotD, or Inquisition being primary and counting as scoring and then adding these. I'm betting they are just Elite choices that score if primary. .
After the Knight 'codex', I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Stormtrooper book turns out to be just the Command Squad and the Stormtrooper squad, taken in platoons with no FOC chart.
Damn they really did a number on plasma pistols. Can't take two for gunslinger AND they got bumped to 15 points. Can't even just take a hullgun on Sarge anymore. Bloody hell. I guess the points drop is good enough.
BrookM wrote: The sergeant may take a power weapon (15 pts!) or power fist (25 pts!)
I see GW still thinks that Guard have a place in HTH, and thus price their HTH weapons as though they were actually good at it.
BrookM wrote: Special rules are Clarion vox-net (Friendly units within 18" of the officer may use his Ld for any fear, morale or pinning tests)...
So in order to use the special radio network... you must be within shouting distance. Do they not understand how radios work?
All I see here are two problems the Guard have had since 3rd Ed that haven't been addressed.
I agree with the "do they not understand how radios work" thing, but it looks like you do not actually have to buy a Vox-Caster in order to use the Clarion Vox-Net.
Hulksmash wrote: My assumption was for the codex supposedly coming out. I figured if they are the primary detachment they score. If they are actual troops in the codex that would be awesome but it's unlikely since then they'd be amazing allies. Imagine any of the other "Codexes" like Knights, LotD, or Inquisition being primary and counting as scoring and then adding these. I'm betting they are just Elite choices that score if primary. .
After the Knight 'codex', I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Stormtrooper book turns out to be just the Command Squad and the Stormtrooper squad, taken in platoons with no FOC chart.
Well I would since they always have an FOC. It's just normally a very limited one and might only include a single slot multiple times like the Inquisition (HQ & Elite), Knight (Knight Force Org.), and LotD (Elite) Codexes. Also most of the rumors have them including the Ogryn units in the codex. Guess we'll just have to wait and see
I could be wrong but I thought I remembered the force org showing a symbol with 3 Knights on it. Maybe there wasn't one for the "Army" though. Lord knows I've been wrong before
Not that it needs an FOC when they are an army because they aren't an HQ, Elite, Troop, FA, or Heavy Support.....Kinda of unique instance.
Especially when the other two (one of which coming out after the Knight book) do have them. It's totally logical to deduce that units that are an elite choice wouldn't have some sort of FOC in the upcoming codex.
BrookM wrote: The sergeant may take a power weapon (15 pts!) or power fist (25 pts!)
I see GW still thinks that Guard have a place in HTH, and thus price their HTH weapons as though they were actually good at it.
It would be horrible if regular squad sergeants are also stuck with laspistols instead of lasguns. I mean, if space marine sergeants have bolters as standard kit, you'd think that the Astra Blah Blah would also allow this..
I've got a feeling my Elysians will be collecting dust on the shelf for another codex span, as their sergeants don't come with swords and pistols, but rather lasguns, like good lads. gak.
Next week also sees two reboxed units, both weapon teams in single team boxes:
Nicholas Sacco on the Bols Lounge wrote:So, it seems MILITARUM TEMPESTUS is only an expansion for the imperial guard and not the real imperial guard.. the codex (released the same week as direct only) will be only in english and it'll have only the extra unit seen in the wd photos and maybe something else.
MILITARUM TEMPESTUS TAUROX PRIME Plastic Box 38€
MILITARUM TEMPESTUS SCIONS Plastic Box 27€
WARHAMMER: VISIONS 3 (ENGLISH) 9€
ASTRA MILITARUM CADIAN HEAVY WEAPON Plastic Box 12.5€
ASTRA MILITARUM CATACHAN HEAVY WEAPON Plastic Box 12.5€
CODEX: MILITARUM TEMPESTUS Book (HB) 39€
ALTAR OF WAR Book (HB) 39€
BLACK LIBRARY
HORUS HERESY: SCARS (C-FORMAT) Novel 15.95€
HORUS HERESY: SCARS (AUDIOBOOK) Audio Book 35
BrookM wrote: The sergeant may take a power weapon (15 pts!) or power fist (25 pts!)
I see GW still thinks that Guard have a place in HTH, and thus price their HTH weapons as though they were actually good at it.
It would be horrible if regular squad sergeants are also stuck with laspistols instead of lasguns. I mean, if space marine sergeants have bolters as standard kit, you'd think that the Astra Blah Blah would also allow this..
I've got a feeling my Elysians will be collecting dust on the shelf for another codex span, as their sergeants don't come with swords and pistols, but rather lasguns, like good lads. gak.
Yeah...last book, only Stormtrooper Sergeants had Hellguns. Looks like that option is gone now.
Although they have gone down in points, storm troopers got worse even at 12pts/model they only cost 1pt less than a tac marine, still dont score (unless the stormtrooper codex allows it) now only have ld7, and lost special operations, WS4, hotshot pistols, and CC weapons. thats still 130pts for 10 models with fire warrior stats and 18" range guns :/ and if the needlessly silly named sergeant dies from the firepower theyre bound to take before they can do anything, your elite choice is likely to run back the way it came. Also the models still dont stand up to the current metal storm troopers imo, far too cartoony. Oh and you only actually get 9 of those 18" guns firing since the sergeant lost his hellgun in his rise to ld9.
Also the taurox actually looks worse after more pictures, its like a concept that got abandoned from RA3 for being too cartoony. (not slating RA3, just saying that kind of art style has no place in 40k)
Bobug wrote: Although they have gone down in points, storm troopers got worse even at 12pts/model they only cost 1pt less than a tac marine, still dont score (unless the stormtrooper codex allows it) now only have ld7, and lost special operations, WS4, hotshot pistols, and CC weapons. thats still 130pts for 10 models with fire warrior stats and 18" range guns :/ and if the needlessly silly named seargent dies from the firepower theyre bound to take before they can do anything, your elite choice is likely to run back the way it came. Also the models still dont stand up to the current metal storm troopers imo, far too cartoony.
Take a look in your Codex: Imperial Guard again. The Stormtrooper statline(and the Stormtrooper Sergeant statline for that matter) is unchanged.
The Tempestor Prime(Junior Officer, only available in the Command Squad) is LD9 and can issue Orders...which could be a good thing or a bad thing.
kronk wrote: 25 point power fists for Imperial Guard are as silly as 15 point plasma pistols for... anyone!
Both are 10 points too high.
Indeed, particularly in an Imperial Guard list when those extra 10pts here and there can be spent on lascannons elsewhere, etc. If you want your stormtroopers to have shiny swords, the option's there, but the smart thing is to stow that stuff and load them up with shootybang instead
Perhaps it's GW's way of bringing balance to an army full of low S, high AP weaponry?
The scribes of departemento gamus workshopus have forgotten to update their dataslate base following V6 edition change for some reason.
Imperial Guard is still recorded as an exceptionally strong force thanks to Chimera spam, Hydra spam and power blob platoons.
They will all get a nerf treatment, perhaps.
Why spending SM prices for CC weapons giving retaliating power to your platoons ? On STR:3 WS:3 squishy dudes ?
Absurd.
I get it, it's an incentive to take Ogryns, the new IG heroes of close combat !
Bobug wrote: Although they have gone down in points, storm troopers got worse even at 12pts/model they only cost 1pt less than a tac marine, still dont score (unless the stormtrooper codex allows it) now only have ld7, and lost special operations, WS4, hotshot pistols, and CC weapons. thats still 130pts for 10 models with fire warrior stats and 18" range guns :/ and if the needlessly silly named seargent dies from the firepower theyre bound to take before they can do anything, your elite choice is likely to run back the way it came. Also the models still dont stand up to the current metal storm troopers imo, far too cartoony.
Take a look in your Codex: Imperial Guard again. The Stormtrooper statline(and the Stormtrooper Sergeant statline for that matter) is unchanged.
The Tempestor Prime(Junior Officer, only available in the Command Squad) is LD9 and can issue Orders...which could be a good thing or a bad thing.
hmm, i stand corrected, I guess statwise the officer has improved then! I thought the WD was getting at only the command squad seargimibob being able to issue orders?
Also, the Tempestor has Initiative 4, hopefully a sign of certain Guard characters, such as the commanding officer and the Lord Commissar receiving I4 as well. Yay, now we can hit as fast as certain faction troops!
Hulksmash wrote: My assumption was for the codex supposedly coming out. I figured if they are the primary detachment they score. If they are actual troops in the codex that would be awesome but it's unlikely since then they'd be amazing allies. Imagine any of the other "Codexes" like Knights, LotD, or Inquisition being primary and counting as scoring and then adding these. I'm betting they are just Elite choices that score if primary. .
After the Knight 'codex', I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Stormtrooper book turns out to be just the Command Squad and the Stormtrooper squad, taken in platoons with no FOC chart.
I don't understand why storm troopers get their own codex. Does that mean they won't be present in the IG codex? Are they trying to piece meal every codex into new codexes with more fluff and less rules?!
Eventually we are going to get 100 page books with 90% fluff and some new special rule on the last page, along with the old repackaged rules.
Why doesn't GW get on the same page as privateer press and have many versions of named characters? I may jinx myself and come to learn its in the works in the form of data slates. god I hate dataslates. I want a card with the stats, not some pdf.
tjnorwoo wrote: I don't understand why storm troopers get their own codex. Does that mean they won't be present in the IG codex? Are they trying to piece meal every codex into new codexes with more fluff and less rules?!
Eventually we are going to get 100 page books with 90% fluff and some new special rule on the last page, along with the old repackaged rules.
Why doesn't GW get on the same page as privateer press and have many versions of named characters? I may jinx myself and come to learn its in the works in the form of data slates. god I hate dataslates. I want a card with the stats, not some pdf.
The WD scans clearly state the new Tempestus Scions are an elites choice in Codex: Imperial Guard.
And I'd rather have a PDF I can download as many times as I need it and keep on all my devices than one card I'd probably just lose
Eventually we are going to get 100 page books with 90% fluff and some new special rule on the last page, along with the old repackaged rules.
Welcome back to 3rd Edition pamphlet codex - except they're charging you the FULL PRICE for the data sheet.
Also, that codex had double to triple the number of rules compared with recent full priced ones.
Four army lists, each with either new units or special compositions, a bit of fluff and well, that's it. But I've got fond memories of this one and its successor: Eye of Terror.
tjnorwoo wrote: I don't understand why storm troopers get their own codex.
"They'll buy what we make."
And now I know why I am the last of my friends to abandon GW. My budget has made me slighlty less concerned with price increases, but this is getting a little crazy even for me. Did someone say the codex was direct only too?
* Special "doctrine" abilities gone entirely. No more accurate deep striking, no more infiltrating.
* Melee weapons now priced at space marine point costs instead of the discount IG used to get to reflect their weaker stats.
* No more dual plasma pistols, one of the few good things 6th edition added.
* No more pistol + CCW.
* References C:IG for orders, which will probably be obsolete in a month. Has GW just set a new record for shortest time to make the printed rules useless?
This must be the reason for GW's secrecy policy: if people learn how bad the rules are nobody will ever buy them!
I rebember that 40k radio said that theyr was a commissar squad that was going to be release. Since so far they seem to have a 100 percent accuracy rate, i assumed they will be in the 3rd week of the release.
When players have shown a complete willingness to buy the fairly pointless supplements.. why would GW go back to providing quality books? I mean come on, why would you buy the LOTD book? All you need to do is look at the unit entry in Codex: Space Marines and then add in the Animus relic..done. Money saved!
BrookM wrote: Special rules are Clarion vox-net (Friendly units within 18" of the officer may use his Ld for any fear, morale or pinning tests)...
So in order to use the special radio network... you must be within shouting distance. Do they not understand how radios work?
All I see here are two problems the Guard have had since 3rd Ed that haven't been addressed.
From what I see, that clarion vox-net thingy comes with the command Squad as a standard thing, like frags and kraks; I suspect the vox-caster will merely be used for,yet again, re-rolling order rolls
and will sergeants be name..prime now?
EDIT: sorry, that's the ST officer; the sarge are called Tempestor..so Guardsmen sarge is now a...guardsmanor? guardsmanus?
I always find it weird that people complains about supplement price (especially for digital products), since we are in the 21st century, and it's pretty easy to get them way cheaper than the MSRP.
* References C:IG for orders, which will probably be obsolete in a month. Has GW just set a new record for shortest time to make the printed rules useless?
This must be the reason for GW's secrecy policy: if people learn how bad the rules are nobody will ever buy them!
Those are the White Dwarf rules. The official release will most likely have Codex : IG replaced with codex : AM.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Those are the White Dwarf rules. The official release will most likely have Codex : IG replaced with codex : AM.
IOW, don't buy WD for the rules because the rules will be obsolete as soon as the codex arrives. Good thing someone scanned the WD rules so nobody has to buy them.
I'm not worrying that much on Tempestus scions rules availability. They will certainly get a full page platoon description in "Astra Militarum" codex, like the WD one we have discovered today.
Sure, this places them on elite section, while they will be troops in their dedicated codex. So they will switch places like Crisis teams in Tau /vs/ Farsight Enclave codices, along with detachment specific rules (warlord traits & so on).
Well, a good thing or an irrelevant thing; and given how good Orders are now, I like the odds of this being useful.
But he's only a Junior Officer, so he only knows the crappy orders of a standard platoon commander. No "Bring it Down!" and no "Get back in the Fight!. So basically... meh.
* Special "doctrine" abilities gone entirely. No more accurate deep striking, no more infiltrating.
* Melee weapons now priced at space marine point costs instead of the discount IG used to get to reflect their weaker stats.
* No more dual plasma pistols, one of the few good things 6th edition added.
* No more pistol + CCW.
* References C:IG for orders, which will probably be obsolete in a month. Has GW just set a new record for shortest time to make the printed rules useless?
This must be the reason for GW's secrecy policy: if people learn how bad the rules are nobody will ever buy them!
The special doctrine abilities weren't needed in the first place and just inflated the cost. Scout/Infiltrate was rarely useful, the real reason people took Stormies was for the accurate deepstrike.
I'm not surprised you forgot to mention Inquisitors, despite the fact you trumpet them frequently (though I'd care to think that was the mandatory thing to point out and shove down people's throats of last month) since they give you accurate 1D6 deepstriking for 9 points, in the form of Servo Skulls.
Noone used the melee weapons unless you were a complete pillock. Dual plasma pistols was meh, not a great loss, and complaining about pistol/CCW being gone is frankly hilarious. You are aware these are S3, T3, I3 Guardsmen, not even in high numbers, right?
As for orders:
An article in the upcoming White Dwarf mentions that First Rank Second Rank Fire will be available for hot shot lasguns out of the upcoming Astra Militarum codex.
In addition the Miltarum Tempestus codex will contain 6 orders for Tempestor Primes to issue within a Militarum Tempestus Detachment.
Maxurugi wrote: But he's only a Junior Officer, so he only knows the crappy orders of a standard platoon commander. No "Bring it Down!" and no "Get back in the Fight!. So basically... meh.
For now. Who knows what those orders will be when the real rules are released (for another $50). Maybe the next not-IG codex will give platoon commanders the "win game" order which says "you win the game, make some gun noises and fly your airplanes around the room and then go buy more Citadel™ Space™ Marines™".
Well, one thing I DID see, if those WD rules are based on the new Astra Miligalingaling codex,
Dozer-blades, Stubbers, Extra armour, camo nets are all 5 points cheaper...not much but it's something..sorta.
but even then, the loss of hot-shot psitols and basic CCW on the basic storm trooper is a bummer and rather odd; or will ALL guardsmen loose their CCW to push those ogryns sales?
Inquisitor Jex wrote: Well, one thing I DID see, if those WD rules are based on the new Astra Miligalingaling codex,
Dozer-blades, Stubbers, Extra armour, camo nets are all 5 points cheaper...not much but it's something..sorta.
but even then, the loss of hot-shot psitols and basic CCW on the basic storm trooper is a bummer and rather odd; or will ALL guardsmen loose their CCW to push those ogryns sales?
In the codex its cheaper by 10 points to give Leman Russes camo over the Artillery. I think they price it based on the vehicle itself over a flat price. Its more useful on artillery so its more expensive. Less useful on a fast light vehicle so cheaper.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: Well, one thing I DID see, if those WD rules are based on the new Astra Miligalingaling codex,
Dozer-blades, Stubbers, Extra armour, camo nets are all 5 points cheaper...not much but it's something..sorta.
but even then, the loss of hot-shot psitols and basic CCW on the basic storm trooper is a bummer and rather odd; or will ALL guardsmen loose their CCW to push those ogryns sales?
In the codex its cheaper by 10 points to give Leman Russes camo over the Artillery. I think they price it based on the vehicle itself over a flat price. Its more useful on artillery so its more expensive. Less useful on a fast light vehicle so cheaper.
I actually used the Hellhound/Sentinel to compare price; it seems it IS higher priced for the artillery..how odd.
Mr.Omega wrote: The special doctrine abilities weren't needed in the first place and just inflated the cost. Scout/Infiltrate was rarely useful, the real reason people took Stormies was for the accurate deepstrike.
And now that accurate deep strike is gone. See the problem?
I'm not surprised you forgot to mention Inquisitors, despite the fact you trumpet them frequently (though I'd care to think that was the mandatory thing to point out and shove down people's throats of last month) since they give you accurate 1D6 deepstriking for 9 points, in the form of Servo Skulls.
As long as you aren't trying to do it within 6" of an enemy model to melta a tank. Which was the main thing storm troopers were used for.
Noone used the melee weapons unless you were a complete pillock. Dual plasma pistols was meh, not a great loss, and complaining about pistol/CCW being gone is frankly hilarious. You are aware these are S3, T3, I3 Guardsmen, not even in high numbers, right?
The point is that GW just took an option that was already too expensive and made it more expensive. This is undeniable proof that GW's rule authors have absolutely no clue what they're doing and don't make even a minimal attempt to keep things balanced. This is utter, inexcusable incompetence.
And yeah, dual plasma pistols weren't very good at winning games. But they were fun, they made some awesome models, and they were one of the few good rules that 6th edition added. Now that's gone for no apparent reason. I guess the idiot who wrote these rules didn't bother reading the 6th edition rulebook?
An article in the upcoming White Dwarf mentions that First Rank Second Rank Fire will be available for hot shot lasguns out of the upcoming Astra Militarum codex.
In addition the Miltarum Tempestus codex will contain 6 orders for Tempestor Primes to issue within a Militarum Tempestus Detachment.
Yep, that just confirms GW's strategy: buy WD for the rules, even though those rules aren't complete and you have to buy the rules again if you ever want to use them.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: Well, one thing I DID see, if those WD rules are based on the new Astra Miligalingaling codex,
Dozer-blades, Stubbers, Extra armour, camo nets are all 5 points cheaper...not much but it's something..sorta.
but even then, the loss of hot-shot psitols and basic CCW on the basic storm trooper is a bummer and rather odd; or will ALL guardsmen loose their CCW to push those ogryns sales?
In the codex its cheaper by 10 points to give Leman Russes camo over the Artillery. I think they price it based on the vehicle itself over a flat price. Its more useful on artillery so its more expensive. Less useful on a fast light vehicle so cheaper.
I actually used the Hellhound/Sentinel to compare price; it seems it IS higher priced for the artillery..how odd.
For a very long time I priced all my camo at 30 points because I never noticed that. Oh well. But yea so for the camo it may just be differently priced for different groups.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Hold on... people took Storm Troopers in the last Codex? Storm Troopers have never had good rules. Not since they first showed up in 2nd Ed.
sadly, this is, and looks to continue to be, the unfortunate truth. They've been my favorites IG units for a very long time, but the only place it looks like they'll be largely useable is in DKoKAB lists, unless something magical happened to the Hotshot lasgun.
I mean I love Storm Troopers - I have over 60 of the damned things to make up my Inquisitorial army - but they've never been good. I never expected to do well with my Inquisitorial force (and never really have).
People shouldn't act surprised that these new Stormies are just as bad as the old ones (25 point power fists? These people do not understand the rules of their own game...).
Is it meant to be just one photo of a completed model from one angle? I don't really understand how that would be useful to anybody.
Wow, errr, your comment reminded me of Zoolander! LMFAO.
Dakkite: What is this? A picture of a converted model? How can we be expected to make a 3 dimensional model with a 2 dimensional picture? Use our brains?
Me: Uh, this is just a ...
Dakkite: I DON'T WANNA HEAR YOUR EXCUSES! The visual has to be completely blue printed out to scale with references to every bit that will be used! I can't be creative or think of anything myself!
H.B.M.C. wrote: I mean I love Storm Troopers - I have over 60 of the damned things to make up my Inquisitorial army - but they've never been good. I never expected to do well with my Inquisitorial force (and never really have).
People shouldn't act surprised that these new Stormies are just as bad as the old ones (25 point power fists? These people do not understand the rules of their own game...).
It was always fun to put a thunder hammer on a Inq. Stormie sergeant and have him fight something...could not be picked out as he was not an IC etc. Fun times when you could mob a Bloodthirster.
Taurox stats makes it less survivable than a Chimera! Pffft!
Loved the names give to the stormies
Too bad GW ignores the community and still goes thru with forcing such abominations on the folks they want to buy their gak from. I admit, the Knights are as close to the original shape of their old epic scale ones, more detailed of course, but 140bucks ain't happening!
White Dwarf A:
Step 1: Release MT Scions.
Step 2: Publish rules to use them with 'Codex: Imperial Guard' (Remember, the little Timmy's don't know of Codex: Astra Militarum)
Step 3: Little Timmy buys 15-25 MT Scions for an allied platoon.
Step 4: "Hey, now you've got those Scions, you know you can make an army out of them with this book here?
Step 5: Little Timmy buys Codex: Militarum Tempestus
White Dwarf B:
Step 6: Codex Astra Militarum is released.
Step 7: White Dwarf A is now low on stock. Codex: Imperial Guard no longer exists and therefore White Dwarf A is irrelevant.
Step 8: Little Timmy now has too many Scions he can reasonably use in a Codex Astra Militarum army. GW has sold notably more Scions to him (Plus a copy of White Dwarf A) than they would have bought otherwise if steps 1-7 were re-arranged in any order.
Is it meant to be just one photo of a completed model from one angle? I don't really understand how that would be useful to anybody.
Wow, errr, your comment reminded me of Zoolander! LMFAO.
Dakkite: What is this? A picture of a converted model? How can we be expected to make a 3 dimensional model with a 2 dimensional picture? Use our brains?
Me: Uh, this is just a ...
Dakkite: I DON'T WANNA HEAR YOUR EXCUSES! The visual has to be completely blue printed out to scale with references to every bit that will be used! I can't be creative or think of anything myself!
You don't have to be a knob about it, I was legitimately asking in case I was missing the link to the step by step, perhaps some in progress shots, or god forbid a component list or anything. Pardon me for living. Better top this off with some patronising bloody facepalms. LMFAO ben stiller movies LMFAO etc
Wow! err, your "comment" (post) was totally unnecessary and condescending! LMFAO. How am I supposed to respond to a legitimate question without being horrible? Use my brain? Derrr
Compel wrote: I think it makes GW crazy sense to me...
White Dwarf A: Step 1: Release MT Scions. Step 2: Publish rules to use them with 'Codex: Imperial Guard' (Remember, the little Timmy's don't know of Codex: Astra Militarum) Step 3: Little Timmy buys 15-25 MT Scions for an allied platoon. Step 4: "Hey, now you've got those Scions, you know you can make an army out of them with this book here? Step 5: Little Timmy buys Codex: Militarum Tempestus
White Dwarf B: Step 6: Codex Astra Militarum is released. Step 7: White Dwarf A is now low on stock. Codex: Imperial Guard no longer exists and therefore White Dwarf A is irrelevant. Step 8: Little Timmy now has too many Scions he can reasonably use in a Codex Astra Militarum army. GW has sold notably more Scions to him (Plus a copy of White Dwarf A) than they would have bought otherwise if steps 1-7 were re-arranged in any order.
Assuming he wants an AM army. Why should it matter if he has more scions than he can use in an AM army anyway? He still has them for TM, Apoc and I doubt he would have enough scions to exceed the 2 FOC limit.
Don't underestimate the buying power of Little Timmy's mother's/fathers purse/wallet when s/he's out looking for daycare in the local town centre while out shopping.
And I was thinking, if he already had an Imperial Guard force.
I don't believe there's any way that's what's happening anyway. You're welcome to believe that until the AM book is out, but when you're proven wrong hopefully you'll come back here and cop to it. Serious tinfoil hat stuff there.
You're not convincing me. Is he trying to replace his absent parents with little plastic men? Does he have a secret brother in the attic that he hopes to play 40k with, but can't...until it's too late!
I need some pathos here.
Compel wrote: Don't underestimate the buying power of Little Timmy's mother's/fathers purse/wallet when s/he's out looking for daycare in the local town centre while out shopping.
And I was thinking, if he already had an Imperial Guard force.
Ah, but if he's going so far as to get a supplement that allows whole armies of scions, then would he not care he has scions in excess?
It would be like me complaining that I can't use 60+ deathmarks in a standard necron army when I bought a hypothetical deathmark supplement.
Compel wrote: I think it makes GW crazy sense to me.
Just as long as you only look at short-term sales to low-information kids, and ignore the damage that their policies are doing to the rest of the community. But that "strategy" seems to be pretty typical for GW lately.
Compel wrote: Don't underestimate the buying power of Little Timmy's mother's/fathers purse/wallet when s/he's out looking for daycare in the local town centre while out shopping.
And I was thinking, if he already had an Imperial Guard force.
Ah, but if he's going so far as to get a supplement that allows whole armies of scions, then would he not care he has scions in excess?
It would be like me complaining that I can't use 60+ deathmarks in a standard necron army when I bought a hypothetical deathmark supplement.
Little Timmy is clearly an irrational sociopath. Piles of unassembled plastic is the only thing between him and a killing spree.
We should really be thanking GW for this important social service.
Compel wrote: Don't underestimate the buying power of Little Timmy's mother's/fathers purse/wallet when s/he's out looking for daycare in the local town centre while out shopping.
And I was thinking, if he already had an Imperial Guard force.
Ah, but if he's going so far as to get a supplement that allows whole armies of scions, then would he not care he has scions in excess? It would be like me complaining that I can't use 60+ deathmarks in a standard necron army when I bought a hypothetical deathmark supplement.
Little Timmy is clearly an irrational sociopath. Piles of unassembled plastic is the only thing between him and a killing spree.
Clearly, he buys the sets only for the spare heads, so he can make his own skull throne.
Of course he will. That's why you have stores with people to sell the models instead of just a website, kids will always be interested in the shiny new thing that the friendly employee tells them will crush all of their friends (or is necessary to keep playing their army, if you want to be less honest about it).
I didn't mean to suggest that 'he' actually cared, however, 'he' would be less inclined to buy loads of scions and the supplement, if Codex: Astra Militarum came out first.
plastictrees wrote: You're not convincing me. Is he trying to replace his absent parents with little plastic men? Does he have a secret brother in the attic that he hopes to play 40k with, but can't...until it's too late!
I need some pathos here.
Compel wrote: I think it makes GW crazy sense to me...
White Dwarf A:
Step 1: Release MT Scions.
Step 2: Publish rules to use them with 'Codex: Imperial Guard' (Remember, the little Timmy's don't know of Codex: Astra Militarum)
Step 3: Little Timmy buys 15-25 MT Scions for an allied platoon.
Step 4: "Hey, now you've got those Scions, you know you can make an army out of them with this book here?
Step 5: Little Timmy buys Codex: Militarum Tempestus
White Dwarf B:
Step 6: Codex Astra Militarum is released.
Step 7: White Dwarf A is now low on stock. Codex: Imperial Guard no longer exists and therefore White Dwarf A is irrelevant.
Step 8: Little Timmy now has too many Scions he can reasonably use in a Codex Astra Militarum army. GW has sold notably more Scions to him (Plus a copy of White Dwarf A) than they would have bought otherwise if steps 1-7 were re-arranged in any order.
"Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?"
Ellen Ripley, Aliens
Does anyone really see the Taurox as a good buy/useful?
11/10/10. I can't get past those stats. I can't see me replacing all (Hell, any!) of my Chimera for the Taurox.
I've seen a few others comment similarly, but I also see people liking it.
alarmingrick wrote: Does anyone really see the Taurox as a good buy/useful?
11/10/10. I can't get past those stats. I can't see me replacing all (Hell, any!) of my Chimera for the Taurox.
I've seen a few others comment similarly, but I also see people liking it.
I think it partly depends on what they've done to the Chimera.
In a perfect world of rainbow and sunshine, the Chimera would remain unchanged, and have an autocannon turret option. Then the Taurox would be pretty much useless.
But with GW, we'll never know until we see it. Personally, it could shoot rapid fire Knight Titans and I wouldn't use it.
Compel wrote: I think it makes GW crazy sense to me...
White Dwarf A:
Step 1: Release MT Scions.
Step 2: Publish rules to use them with 'Codex: Imperial Guard' (Remember, the little Timmy's don't know of Codex: Astra Militarum)
Step 3: Little Timmy buys 15-25 MT Scions for an allied platoon.
Step 4: "Hey, now you've got those Scions, you know you can make an army out of them with this book here?
Step 5: Little Timmy buys Codex: Militarum Tempestus
White Dwarf B:
Step 6: Codex Astra Militarum is released.
Step 7: White Dwarf A is now low on stock. Codex: Imperial Guard no longer exists and therefore White Dwarf A is irrelevant.
Step 8: Little Timmy now has too many Scions he can reasonably use in a Codex Astra Militarum army. GW has sold notably more Scions to him (Plus a copy of White Dwarf A) than they would have bought otherwise if steps 1-7 were re-arranged in any order.
"Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?"
Ellen Ripley, Aliens
No, but they appear to have dipped significantly now you're back. azreal13, just then.
I think everyone is missing the more disturbing issue:
These are WD rules for a revamped unit that's going to be in the Astra Militarum Codex a week or two from the model release and the WD is still referencing Codex: Imperial Guard. To put it another way, this is a new unit for a new Codex that GW won't even admit exists, so are specifically referencing something that will be out of date a fortnight after this new unit hits store shelves.
I don't think their strategy is some sort of "Ha! Let's release rules and then invalidate them a week later!" (followed by several hours of moustache twirling), but I do think that their secrecy policy has reached insane levels when they're releasing new units for a Codex and won't even tell you the name of that Codex (or that a new Codex is even coming) and then go out of their way to reference the Codex that will be replaced by the new one instead of mentioning the new one.
General Hobbs wrote: It was always fun to put a thunder hammer on a Inq. Stormie sergeant and have him fight something...could not be picked out as he was not an IC etc. Fun times when you could mob a Bloodthirster.
Did that. Even converted an officer model using a FW head and Coteaz's hammer. Not very useful but still loads of fun.
Compel wrote: I think it makes GW crazy sense to me...
White Dwarf A: Step 1: Release MT Scions. Step 2: Publish rules to use them with 'Codex: Imperial Guard' (Remember, the little Timmy's don't know of Codex: Astra Militarum) Step 3: Little Timmy buys 15-25 MT Scions for an allied platoon. Step 4: "Hey, now you've got those Scions, you know you can make an army out of them with this book here? Step 5: Little Timmy buys Codex: Militarum Tempestus
White Dwarf B: Step 6: Codex Astra Militarum is released. Step 7: White Dwarf A is now low on stock. Codex: Imperial Guard no longer exists and therefore White Dwarf A is irrelevant. Step 8: Little Timmy now has too many Scions he can reasonably use in a Codex Astra Militarum army. GW has sold notably more Scions to him (Plus a copy of White Dwarf A) than they would have bought otherwise if steps 1-7 were re-arranged in any order.
"Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?" Ellen Ripley, Aliens
No, but they appear to have dipped significantly now you're back. azreal13, just then.
alarmingrick wrote: Does anyone really see the Taurox as a good buy/useful?
11/10/10. I can't get past those stats. I can't see me replacing all (Hell, any!) of my Chimera for the Taurox.
I've seen a few others comment similarly, but I also see people liking it.
I love light vehicles. I own one open topped Chimera and I dont even see those as worth my money. But the Taurox thing is amazing to me after I have seen more of it. Im gonna get one and some storm troopers just because I love light vehicles. Its fast, got a cool cannon on there that isnt too wacky in size and well yea. I like it. I also think it suits the storm trooper/inquisition. A small, fast and not very suspicious rover vehicle that has a fair amount of fire power.
I cant wait to get one. I dont buy GW products very often, but i am very excited about this vehicle. And the storm troopers. My scottish are currently acting as storm troopers at times, but I find their kilts flying up while they deep strike a bit too repulsive to keep them as storm troopers.
alarmingrick wrote: Does anyone really see the Taurox as a good buy/useful?
11/10/10. I can't get past those stats. I can't see me replacing all (Hell, any!) of my Chimera for the Taurox.
I've seen a few others comment similarly, but I also see people liking it.
I think it partly depends on what they've done to the Chimera.
In a perfect world of rainbow and sunshine, the Chimera would remain unchanged, and have an autocannon turret option. Then the Taurox would be pretty much useless.
But with GW, we'll never know until we see it. Personally, it could shoot rapid fire Knight Titans and I wouldn't use it.
I hope they don't do much, if anything. I doubt it'll get the AC option.
alarmingrick wrote: Does anyone really see the Taurox as a good buy/useful?
11/10/10. I can't get past those stats. I can't see me replacing all (Hell, any!) of my Chimera for the Taurox.
I've seen a few others comment similarly, but I also see people liking it.
I love light vehicles. I own one open topped Chimera and I dont even see those as worth my money. But the Taurox thing is amazing to me after I have seen more of it. Im gonna get one and some storm troopers just because I love light vehicles. Its fast, got a cool cannon on there that isnt too wacky in size and well yea. I like it. I also think it suits the storm trooper/inquisition. A small, fast and not very suspicious rover vehicle that has a fair amount of fire power.
I cant wait to get one. I dont buy GW products very often, but i am very excited about this vehicle. And the storm troopers. My scottish are currently acting as storm troopers at times, but I find their kilts flying up while they deep strike a bit too repulsive to keep them as storm troopers.
I just don't see the being fast option as a reason to overlook the 11/10/10. Not picking on your likes, at all.
To me, ST's DSing in, or infiltrating in seem suited to their MO.
Yeah........., and I will let the conspiracy theorists continue with thinking GWs grand plan is a bait and switch of Scions/White Dwarf/Guard/Astra theory........ Okayyyyyyyyyyy (backs away slowly)....
You would have to be mad to not want an Adeptus Mechanicus army!
Wait... Stupid GW and giving things the same acronyms. )-:
Anyway, I really can't figure out why you would take a volley gun over a plasma gun in a squad. With an 18" range weapon on your infantry guns you are not going to be standing still to make use of the salvo rule, as everything will out range you. Plus, you can't use it fully after deepstriking. The only way that I can see myself taking one is if the codex gives an order granting relentless. That would actually be really nice, as you could double tap hot shots and then charge the remnants of a squad.
When I worked GW retail, kids would come in, do the demo, buy a starter set. Then they would come in and gravitate towards 2 armies: Marines, and Guard. We always tried to steer them away from Guard because you needed soooo many models and little Timmy's parents would start to get grumbly, and little Timmy would get upset that his army was smaller than little Tommy's, even though they had spent the same amount of money.
As for the release schedule, let me put this out: When I worked for Battlefront, we had a situation where a book was due to go out for shipping, and the boat from Turkey ( yeah, the book was published in Turkey, I kid you not), was late. The books came in the day before the shipping date.
Mayyyyybbbeee.....the reason for this release schedule is the book is late, either because of the publisher or shipper, and rather than have a no release weekend, they made the schedule as is. I can guarantee you that with both GW and Battlefront, we got goods in the week they were due ;to sell. Oftentimes they do not sit in a warehouse waiting to go on sale weeks before hand.....( though rumors have the scions being ready ages ago). They often arrive the week they are due too go out. In short, it is not a process.where goods come in, company sells to retailers, goods go out to retailers...it is often company sells to retailers, goods come in, goods then ship out.
I doubt the GW heads are that devious as to try and get sales and then nullify the purchases with different rules a week or two later.
alarmingrick wrote: Does anyone really see the Taurox as a good buy/useful?
11/10/10. I can't get past those stats. I can't see me replacing all (Hell, any!) of my Chimera for the Taurox.
I've seen a few others comment similarly, but I also see people liking it.
I love light vehicles. I own one open topped Chimera and I dont even see those as worth my money. But the Taurox thing is amazing to me after I have seen more of it. Im gonna get one and some storm troopers just because I love light vehicles. Its fast, got a cool cannon on there that isnt too wacky in size and well yea. I like it. I also think it suits the storm trooper/inquisition. A small, fast and not very suspicious rover vehicle that has a fair amount of fire power.
I cant wait to get one. I dont buy GW products very often, but i am very excited about this vehicle. And the storm troopers. My scottish are currently acting as storm troopers at times, but I find their kilts flying up while they deep strike a bit too repulsive to keep them as storm troopers.
I just don't see the being fast option as a reason to overlook the 11/10/10. Not picking on your likes, at all.
To me, ST's DSing in, or infiltrating in seem suited to their MO.
I can see them bombing around on fast, heavily armed vehicles, special forces style.
alarmingrick wrote: Does anyone really see the Taurox as a good buy/useful?
11/10/10. I can't get past those stats. I can't see me replacing all (Hell, any!) of my Chimera for the Taurox.
I've seen a few others comment similarly, but I also see people liking it.
I love light vehicles. I own one open topped Chimera and I dont even see those as worth my money. But the Taurox thing is amazing to me after I have seen more of it. Im gonna get one and some storm troopers just because I love light vehicles. Its fast, got a cool cannon on there that isnt too wacky in size and well yea. I like it. I also think it suits the storm trooper/inquisition. A small, fast and not very suspicious rover vehicle that has a fair amount of fire power.
I cant wait to get one. I dont buy GW products very often, but i am very excited about this vehicle. And the storm troopers. My scottish are currently acting as storm troopers at times, but I find their kilts flying up while they deep strike a bit too repulsive to keep them as storm troopers.
I just don't see the being fast option as a reason to overlook the 11/10/10. Not picking on your likes, at all.
To me, ST's DSing in, or infiltrating in seem suited to their MO.
Its not all about rules though. Otherwise there would be many models unsold.
But my group also plays with decent cover and smaller points so things dont always blow up on turn 1.
It all depends on where and who you play really.
But I like the idea. Of course im not gonna buy 10 and hope to win but I dont see having one or 2 as a huge detriment to an army.
I think that writing IG instead of the new sillier name is more a result of GW confusing policies than a master plan. Probably half the studio is not aware what the other half is doing to avoid those horrible leaks!!!
Remember never attribute to malice what it's pure incompetence.
Miguelsan wrote: I think that writing IG instead of the new sillier name is more a result of GW confusing policies than a master plan. Probably half the studio is not aware what the other half is doing to avoid those horrible leaks!!!
Remember never attribute to malice what it's pure incompetence.
M.
Interestingly, the Taurox page has the Astra Militarum name.
Could it possibly be that they want to give people a chance to test the new stormies out with the current codex (by purchasing the shiny new models, of course...) and then will simply put them in as an identical entry when the new book comes out, minus the "you may use this with Codex: Imperial Guard" bit?
Hulksmash wrote: You can have one Stormtrooper command squad per elite slot basically. They just require a 5-man normal trooper squad.
And there is something kinda funny depending on how the stormtrooper codex turns out. 50 Deepstriking kill teams (assuming melta) and 10 Taurox are only 1400pts Still leaves plenty of points for allies or other silliness
You can bet that "dex" will add a storm trooper detachment, because we need more franken-army bs.
Hulksmash wrote: You can have one Stormtrooper command squad per elite slot basically. They just require a 5-man normal trooper squad.
And there is something kinda funny depending on how the stormtrooper codex turns out. 50 Deepstriking kill teams (assuming melta) and 10 Taurox are only 1400pts Still leaves plenty of points for allies or other silliness
You can bet that "dex" will add a storm trooper detachment, because we need more franken-army bs.
So you think the stormtrooper stats will be in the new IG codex?
I will be quite upset if they just rip storm troopers out of the IG/AM codex. I won't be buying the Tempestus' supplement but I do like my storm troopers....hmm even if it's the old storm troops.
I cant wait to get one. I dont buy GW products very often, but i am very excited about this vehicle. And the storm troopers. My scottish are currently acting as storm troopers at times, but I find their kilts flying up while they deep strike a bit too repulsive to keep them as storm troopers.
Have you seen Carry On Up The Khyber? Never underestimate the psychological shock value of a flying kilt.
I cant wait to get one. I dont buy GW products very often, but i am very excited about this vehicle. And the storm troopers. My scottish are currently acting as storm troopers at times, but I find their kilts flying up while they deep strike a bit too repulsive to keep them as storm troopers.
Have you seen Carry On Up The Khyber? Never underestimate the psychological shock value of a flying kilt.
I have wondered that, strangely enough the kilt flash has not improved their combat record.
The search will have to wait due to work customers. If I type they think its me typing up notes or their quotes, but I cant quite do the same if they hear a you tube video. Even my serious face wont make it look work related.
Back on track though, I dont think anybody has mentioned the gear on the storm troopers. One thing I love on my men is lots of gear. I am really liking the backpacks and so on. Anything to make them look like they have more than 2 clips and a pouch is great.
I'm really confused. Why is there a separate Tempestus/Storm Trooper codex? Why are all the rumors about MTempestus, wtf is going on with Astra Militarum?
Tempestus sounds like a half-baked revamp of the Sisters of Battle, the halfway between IG and Space Marines.
TheSilo wrote: I'm really confused. Why is there a separate Tempestus/Storm Trooper codex?
Because GW figured out that a non-zero number of people will pay $50 for a "book" that consists of one unit copy/pasted from another codex, and why turn down easy money?
TheSilo wrote: I'm really confused. Why is there a separate Tempestus/Storm Trooper codex?
Because GW figured out that a non-zero number of people will pay $50 for a "book" that consists of one unit copy/pasted from another codex, and why turn down easy money?
Apparently somebody is buying all these Imperial Knights and Limited Edition Clan Raukaan codices.
As far as the plastic models, once upon a time they released plastic models so that people could afford basic troops. When I got into the game it was $20 for 20 plastic guardsmen. It is now $30 for 10 guardsmen. They've tripled the price. For the record, inflation has only been about 30% over that period, not 300%
insaniak wrote: Codex: Chimera, and Codex: Yarrick's Power Klaw.
These two will be data slates.
Nah, there is way too much fluff behind Yarrick's power klaw for it to not be a 112 page codex, with rules for fielding it in as a force all by itself, or alongside your Ork, Guard or Titan Legion armies.
Or your Ork Guard Titan Legion armies, which is what they will become in 7th edition...
insaniak wrote: Or your Ork Guard Titan Legion armies, which is what they will become in 7th edition...
Nah, 7th edition will just be Codex: Army. The FOC and entire concept of different factions will be removed in favor of allowing you to play with whatever you want. Point values will remain, however, so you can still brag about how big your collection of Citadel™ Miniatures™ is. But only TFGs will insist on strict point limits for games, since that would interfere with Forging™ The™ Narrative™.
insaniak wrote: Codex: Chimera, and Codex: Yarrick's Power Klaw.
These two will be data slates.
Nah, there is way too much fluff behind Yarrick's power klaw for it to not be a 112 page codex, with rules for fielding it in as a force all by itself, or alongside your Ork, Guard or Titan Legion armies.
Or your Ork Guard Titan Legion armies, which is what they will become in 7th edition...
insaniak wrote: Or your Ork Guard Titan Legion armies, which is what they will become in 7th edition...
Nah, 7th edition will just be Codex: Army. The FOC and entire concept of different factions will be removed in favor of allowing you to play with whatever you want. Point values will remain, however, so you can still brag about how big your collection of Citadel™ Miniatures™ is. But only TFGs will insist on strict point limits for games, since that would interfere with Forging™ The™ Narrative™.
I don't know if I should be more worried about my mental state or GWs because I fully expect half of that to come through.
Seriously, I'm not actually joking here...
Hulksmash wrote: You can have one Stormtrooper command squad per elite slot basically. They just require a 5-man normal trooper squad.
And there is something kinda funny depending on how the stormtrooper codex turns out. 50 Deepstriking kill teams (assuming melta) and 10 Taurox are only 1400pts Still leaves plenty of points for allies or other silliness
You can bet that "dex" will add a storm trooper detachment, because we need more franken-army bs.
So you think the stormtrooper stats will be in the new IG codex?
If storm troopers aren't in the new dex, and you need to buy the supplement in order to take them, then I suggest we all get a new hobby. Because that would be excessively greedy and underhanded, then again half the morons would buy it anyway, and the other half would defend it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TheSilo wrote: I'm really confused. Why is there a separate Tempestus/Storm Trooper codex? Why are all the rumors about MTempestus, wtf is going on with Astra Militarum?
Tempestus sounds like a half-baked revamp of the Sisters of Battle, the halfway between IG and Space Marines.
In all likelihood its 2 pages of rules and adds another detachment into the mix.
Hulksmash wrote: You can have one Stormtrooper command squad per elite slot basically. They just require a 5-man normal trooper squad.
And there is something kinda funny depending on how the stormtrooper codex turns out. 50 Deepstriking kill teams (assuming melta) and 10 Taurox are only 1400pts Still leaves plenty of points for allies or other silliness
You can bet that "dex" will add a storm trooper detachment, because we need more franken-army bs.
So you think the stormtrooper stats will be in the new IG codex?
If storm troopers aren't in the new dex, and you need to buy the supplement in order to take them, then I suggest we all get a new hobby. Because that would be excessively greedy and underhanded, then again half the morons would buy it anyway, and the other half would defend it.
If they removed ST from the IG 'dex and replaced them with something that is basically the same, I wouldn't care. Cadians have Kasrkin, DKOK have Grenadiers, they could remove ST and just have a generic elite force that comes from within the IG itself instead of the ST.
Im talking remove them all together to force you to buy the other full priced dex for 2 pages of rules. If that happens the future is dark and full of terrors with GW.
What would be more interesting is if they get rid of veterans and put in storm troopers instead, forces a lot people to get new models.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I mean I love Storm Troopers - I have over 60 of the damned things to make up my Inquisitorial army - but they've never been good. I never expected to do well with my Inquisitorial force (and never really have).
People shouldn't act surprised that these new Stormies are just as bad as the old ones (25 point power fists? These people do not understand the rules of their own game...).
I know we shouldn't be, but you'd think at some point GW would learn? I mean, you'd think they'd at least make the correlation that good rules sell good models and good models with poor rules sell poorly. I *want* to buy a ton of these guys, but at the rumored prices, they're as much as Forgeworld DKoK Grenadiers, and I've already got a whole bunch of them, and at least in a DKoKAB list they have some mitigators for their appallingly bad statline.
Hulksmash wrote: You can have one Stormtrooper command squad per elite slot basically. They just require a 5-man normal trooper squad.
And there is something kinda funny depending on how the stormtrooper codex turns out. 50 Deepstriking kill teams (assuming melta) and 10 Taurox are only 1400pts Still leaves plenty of points for allies or other silliness
You can bet that "dex" will add a storm trooper detachment, because we need more franken-army bs.
So you think the stormtrooper stats will be in the new IG codex?
If storm troopers aren't in the new dex, and you need to buy the supplement in order to take them, then I suggest we all get a new hobby. Because that would be excessively greedy and underhanded, then again half the morons would buy it anyway, and the other half would defend it.
If they removed ST from the IG 'dex and replaced them with something that is basically the same, I wouldn't care. Cadians have Kasrkin, DKOK have Grenadiers, they could remove ST and just have a generic elite force that comes from within the IG itself instead of the ST.
I just started fearing that GW might be thinking about that... but instead of using Kasrkin as ST they'll move veterans from troops to elite.
GuardRalph wrote: Hmmm, looks good. Like it so far, good twist on what we have seen before.
thanks friend.
Automatically Appended Next Post: a quick paint job. would look much better IMO with an extra little tread in the center, then it won't look so top-heavy.
Spoiler:
I think it goes the wrong way when i look at it it screams monster truck it needs big wheels!
Like this!
I gotta say, the Taurox doesn't look at all fast to me. Tracked vehicles can be quite speedy, but since it doesn't have much in the way of visible suspension, it gives the impression that it'd shake itself apart going anything faster than a brisk jog, and probably give everyone inside concussions to boot.
Vaktathi wrote: and at least in a DKoKAB list they have some mitigators for their appallingly bad statline.
Honestly the DKoK grenadiers are pretty good. 12 points a model gets you BS/WS 4, carapace armor, immunity to morale problems from shooting losses, and a decent gun. As a troops stat line I don't really know what else you can expect. The new storm troopers aren't bad because of their stat line, they're bad because they don't seem to have any kind of coherent role. They can't score, they can't really deliver special weapons all that effectively, they can't outflank/infiltrate anymore. They're dedicated MEQ killers in an army that has an abundance of dedicated anti-MEQ infantry in troops, and an abundance of tanks that just slaughter MEQs.
The melee weapon point costs and loss of pistol + CCW don't really have any impact on their competitive value, they're just proof that GW's rule authors (I refuse to call such hopeless incompetents "game designers") have absolutely no clue how the game works. But apparently GW exists for the sole purpose of providing "productive" employment for complete idiots who would otherwise have no hope of rising above a career as a janitor or burger flipper.
Seriously people you're getting worked up over nothing - codex MT exists so that non imperial guard players can field the new models, that's all. I guarantee it
TuddFudders wrote: Going off the statline and point cost of the Scions, it appears they didn't learn why nobody takes storm troopers.
Well let's hope not everything else in the normal codex sucks now.
Yeah, they made them cheaper, gave them command squad, orders, some more toys and fast transport with solid firepower. Silly GW. I was expecting 15/15/15 taurox with D launchers and 2pts Scions with 48'' melta torrent snipers too...such disappointment. Scions suck mate, I stand with ya!
UlrikDecado wrote: Yeah, they made them cheaper, gave them command squad, orders, some more toys and fast transport with solid firepower. Silly GW. I was expecting 15/15/15 taurox with D launchers and 2pts Scions with 48'' melta torrent snipers too...such disappointment. Scions suck mate, I stand with ya!
But now they have no purpose. They're essentially veteran squads that don't score, and IG have absolutely no use for non-scoring infantry that just kill marines reasonably well. Storm troopers had exactly one reason to exist in the current codex: their special deployment options. Take those away and you're left with a redundant unit and a transport that is just garbage. The only way the new storm troopers are going to be even moderately useful is if veteran squads are nerfed into uselessness and IG players are desperate for any unit that can take more than one BS 3 melta gun.
What storm troopers actually needed was to keep their current rules, drop a bit in price, and add a Valkyrie (NOT Vendetta) dedicated transport option and/or a FOC swap to make them scoring. But apparently GW's rule authors don't play the game they're writing rules for, and we're stuck with this joke of a unit for a few years.
You're pretty confident that the WD rules are the full and complete rules for the unit, and that they aren't going to benefit from any hitherto unseen changes in the new guard codex or any new material in the stormtrooper codex.
I get that based on the WD the loss of special operations is a problem, but it's probably the case that that isn't the full picture. Gonna wait and see.
Vaktathi wrote: and at least in a DKoKAB list they have some mitigators for their appallingly bad statline.
Honestly the DKoK grenadiers are pretty good. 12 points a model gets you BS/WS 4, carapace armor, immunity to morale problems from shooting losses, and a decent gun. As a troops stat line I don't really know what else you can expect. The new storm troopers aren't bad because of their stat line, they're bad because they don't seem to have any kind of coherent role. They can't score, they can't really deliver special weapons all that effectively, they can't outflank/infiltrate anymore. They're dedicated MEQ killers in an army that has an abundance of dedicated anti-MEQ infantry in troops, and an abundance of tanks that just slaughter MEQs.
The melee weapon point costs and loss of pistol + CCW don't really have any impact on their competitive value, they're just proof that GW's rule authors (I refuse to call such hopeless incompetents "game designers") have absolutely no clue how the game works. But apparently GW exists for the sole purpose of providing "productive" employment for complete idiots who would otherwise have no hope of rising above a career as a janitor or burger flipper.
Actually I fail to see what Troops you are refering to as dedicated anti-MEQ infantry. I might be stupid but I can´t see it.
UlrikDecado wrote: Yeah, they made them cheaper, gave them command squad, orders, some more toys and fast transport with solid firepower. Silly GW. I was expecting 15/15/15 taurox with D launchers and 2pts Scions with 48'' melta torrent snipers too...such disappointment. Scions suck mate, I stand with ya!
But now they have no purpose. They're essentially veteran squads that don't score, and IG have absolutely no use for non-scoring infantry that just kill marines reasonably well. Storm troopers had exactly one reason to exist in the current codex: their special deployment options. Take those away and you're left with a redundant unit and a transport that is just garbage. The only way the new storm troopers are going to be even moderately useful is if veteran squads are nerfed into uselessness and IG players are desperate for any unit that can take more than one BS 3 melta gun.
What storm troopers actually needed was to keep their current rules, drop a bit in price, and add a Valkyrie (NOT Vendetta) dedicated transport option and/or a FOC swap to make them scoring. But apparently GW's rule authors don't play the game they're writing rules for, and we're stuck with this joke of a unit for a few years.
Now we are talking and not just "it suuuucks" Well, not really if you speak about joke units, but, well, its you, I take it as matter of personality Except the part where the transport is garbage. Its not, sorry, serves its use well in both versions. Yeah, its paper...so is chimera. But really, to tired with horde of discussion where transport without 13/12/12 is bad.
For the purpose. Scions have now, IMO, greater range of options. We dont know stats of hotshot lasgun. We dont know range of orders. We dont know what is in SW list.
For the FoC swap - are you sure that Tempestus cant be your primary with scoring rules? Because what we see is just WD snippets of rules... What really interests me if in full codex with they have doctrines - lose of deep strike reroll would actually hurt.
And in the final, yeah, you are just saying "it suuuucks" because only way to play IG is stuff vets into chimera and fly around with dettas Sorry mate, the game can be played in other ways and its still fun and good, there isnt one way to play it But, maybe GW doesnt really play the game, maybe you are right...certainly...
Except it doesn't release alongside, it releases before.
You will also note, the storm trooper codex cover does NOT say it's a supplement. All other supplements (that I know of at least) specifically state on the cover that it's a supplement. Iyanden, Clan Raukaan, Sentinels of Terra, Farsight Enclaves.
So either the pictures we have are lying to us (totally possible!) or the storm troopers codex is stand-alone.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I gotta say, the Taurox doesn't look at all fast to me. Tracked vehicles can be quite speedy, but since it doesn't have much in the way of visible suspension, it gives the impression that it'd shake itself apart going anything faster than a brisk jog, and probably give everyone inside concussions to boot.
But it has 4 tracks!
That's twice as many tracks as a slow tracked vehicle!
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Bull0 wrote: Seriously people you're getting worked up over nothing - codex MT exists so that non imperial guard players can field the new models, that's all. I guarantee it
Er... but can't they do that anyway, with the allies rules...?
Vaktathi wrote: and at least in a DKoKAB list they have some mitigators for their appallingly bad statline.
Honestly the DKoK grenadiers are pretty good. 12 points a model gets you BS/WS 4, carapace armor, immunity to morale problems from shooting losses, and a decent gun. As a troops stat line I don't really know what else you can expect. The new storm troopers aren't bad because of their stat line, they're bad because they don't seem to have any kind of coherent role. They can't score, they can't really deliver special weapons all that effectively, they can't outflank/infiltrate anymore. They're dedicated MEQ killers in an army that has an abundance of dedicated anti-MEQ infantry in troops, and an abundance of tanks that just slaughter MEQs.
The melee weapon point costs and loss of pistol + CCW don't really have any impact on their competitive value, they're just proof that GW's rule authors (I refuse to call such hopeless incompetents "game designers") have absolutely no clue how the game works. But apparently GW exists for the sole purpose of providing "productive" employment for complete idiots who would otherwise have no hope of rising above a career as a janitor or burger flipper.
I have to agree with you here. GW's "rule authors" somehow took an already overpriced unit and made it slightly worse while effectively removing a lot of options. The only role for Stormtroopers now, is to deepstrike, melta something, and die, and they are slightly worse at that than before. If you ever deploy them on the table, they will be gone turn one.
These couple of releases related to IG have somehow been both confusing and disappointing to me. I have been an IG player for a long time, and this isn't giving me the itch to buy more miniatures or even start playing 40K again. Only the Hydra is a little bit interesting.
Two remarks:
1.) The main Codex being released in the second week is not due to some shipping delays, but to a general shift in release schedule, that has to fill the weekly WD.
2.) To be fair: The new WD makes no effort at all to hide the fact that IG will be renamed. On the cover you see the biggest headline ASTRA MILTARUM". Turn the page and the editorial begins with "The Astra Militarum, also known as Imperiual Guard, ...", turn another page and the scions are introduced as the "warrior elite of Astra Miltarum". The Taurox article begins with "The Astra Militarum uses the Taurox as ...", the "MT Codex" article begins with The Militarum Tempestus is the elite of the Astra Militarum". Changing the name might be silly, but they don't make a secret of it but instead shove the new name down your throat every second page.
At first I thought the Taurox had 2 engines because of the headers at the front and the exhaust stacks at the rear... I just realised the headers run back IN to the vehicle and then out again to the exhaust stacks.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: At first I thought the Taurox had 2 engines because of the headers at the front and the exhaust stacks at the rear... I just realised the headers run back IN to the vehicle and then out again to the exhaust stacks.
Yes, and everyone who wants to flee from the exhausts filling the cabin is shot by the autocannons pointing at the doors
BTW the interior shows that the tracked vehicle is steered by a steering wheel!
Scions look solid, but the Taurox prime is DOA in competitive play. It's a good unit with speed, accuracy, transport, and loads of dakka for a good price. That being said smart opponents will make it a priority to shoot a prime loaded with scions before shooting an av12 chimera loaded with less precious cargo or most other av12 targets. A good unit can turn bad real fast if it's easy and obvious for the enemy to counter it.
Bull0 wrote: Seriously people you're getting worked up over nothing - codex MT exists so that non imperial guard players can field the new models, that's all. I guarantee it
Er... but can't they do that anyway, with the allies rules...?
Sure they can, as long as they don't mind taking a CCS and a troops choice too! Which they 99% likely won't have to with the stormtroopers book.
Kroothawk wrote: Two remarks:
1.) The main Codex being released in the second week is not due to some shipping delays, but to a general shift in release schedule, that has to fill the weekly WD.
2.) To be fair: The new WD makes no effort at all to hide the fact that IG will be renamed. On the cover you see the biggest headline ASTRA MILTARUM". Turn the page and the editorial begins with "The Astra Militarum, also known as Imperiual Guard, ...", turn another page and the scions are introduced as the "warrior elite of Astra Miltarum". The Taurox article begins with "The Astra Militarum uses the Taurox as ...", the "MT Codex" article begins with The Militarum Tempestus is the elite of the Astra Militarum". Changing the name might be silly, but they don't make a secret of it but instead shove the new name down your throat every second page.
The most likely answer to this whole thing is that they wanted to release the scions first and wanted to give people rules for the week between release and the new books. So they put them in WD with rules that work with the old codex. Silly, but probably what's going on.
Peregrine wrote: But now they have no purpose. They're essentially veteran squads that don't score, and IG have absolutely no use for non-scoring infantry that just kill marines reasonably well. Storm troopers had exactly one reason to exist in the current codex: their special deployment options. Take those away and you're left with a redundant unit and a transport that is just garbage. The only way the new storm troopers are going to be even moderately useful is if veteran squads are nerfed into uselessness and IG players are desperate for any unit that can take more than one BS 3 melta gun.
I suspect veteran squad availability will drop significantly this time around regardless of whether they get nerfed. Something like a flat 0-2 limit or especially 1 vet per platoon feels likely.
alphaecho wrote: My scottish are currently acting as storm troopers at times, but I find their kilts flying up while they deep strike a bit too repulsive to keep them as storm troopers.
If they are "true" Scots everything within 6" should have to take a blind test upon their arrival
I am really liking the rules for the Taurox Prime. For 95 points (Gatling+Heavy Stubber upgrades) you get 4 S4 AP3 shots, 10 TL S4 AP- shots, and 3 S4 AP6 shots, all at a glorious BS4. Maybe not quite a Venom, but still quite beastly.
145 points for a Scion Command Squad with full plasma has been making my eyes water, a bit late to the anti-Riptide crisis but still quite nice nonetheless. Combined with a Servo Skull Inquisitor and Psyoccolum, well the unit becomes basically broken.
D6 scatter from a servo skull, fire at a unit with Psykers in, like a psychic MC, or Farseer unit, or anything, and wipe them out with BS10 plasma.
1. What is "Hotshot Volleygun"? is it SAW version of Lasrifle? (or smaller Multilaser)
2. Ability to load an entire unit of Infantry/Scion section and being an ATV that ignores all failed rough terrain test makes it superior to Chimaera, in the other words. this is Stryker of the 41st Millenium
or isn't it?
Pedro Kantor wrote: 1. It is a Salvo 2 / 4 | S 4 | AP 3 weapon and the squad can take 2 of them.
2. Not at 11 / 10 / 10 it isn't. As has been mentioned, it will be targeted for first blood and to make your Scions footslog to where you want them.
1. So the volleygun is Scion exclusive one? And does it serve a modern SAW function if normal Infantry section can take it too?
2. So it makes Taurox a hummer . correct?
Bull0 wrote: Am I being dumb or would it be really silly to swap a hot-shot las pistol for a bolt pistol, even if it is free? Aren't they 12" S4 AP3?
6", S3, AP3.
That's why hot-shot weapons mostly suck. The guns are 18" range, the pistols 6", AP3 is great for killing marines, but S3 means you need a 5+ to wound. If you're not fighting MEQs, you're just burning points on a low Str AP3 weapon.
The AP3 makes them look like the ultimate marine killers until you realise there's a ton of stuff in the guard codex that kills marines better but is also decent against non-MEQs.
Pedro Kantor wrote: 1. It is a Salvo 2 / 4 | S 4 | AP 3 weapon and the squad can take 2 of them.
2. Not at 11 / 10 / 10 it isn't. As has been mentioned, it will be targeted for first blood and to make your Scions footslog to where you want them.
1. So the volleygun is Scion exclusive one? And does it serve a modern SAW function if normal Infantry section can take it too?
2. So it makes Taurox a hummer . correct?
1) Yes. It is basically a large, fast firing hotshot lasgun by the looks of it.
11/10/10 isn't the problem. The problem is it's awesome speed, dakka, bs4, and elite cargo are in a package that is less armored than cheaper, slower, and less dakkalicious bs3 transports that carry more expendible cargo.
If that's a compilation of all of the special missions from all of the Alters of War to-date, this will be a good book. Not 39€ ($75US) good, but still good.
I just realized the kind of funny reason the Taurox can reroll difficult terrain tests. The writer saw that it has 4 tracks. Which is double the amount of tracks on a chimera. Therefore, more tracks = less likely to get stuck. Right? Physics?
Aaaaaaa, I rememberz back in my days when a bottle of cokee cola was a nickel.... aaaaaa (said in an old man's voice)....
Ah, the sarcasm...
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Goresaw wrote: I just realized the kind of funny reason the Taurox can reroll difficult terrain tests. The writer saw that it has 4 tracks. Which is double the amount of tracks on a chimera. Therefore, more tracks = less likely to get stuck. Right? Physics?
You play a game with 28mm men - don't start putting logic into this mess!
So essentially a Taurox is a more expensive, up-gunned Ork trukk? And the Prime is a very expensive glass cannon without much of a cannon (small blast blast auto-cannon? A cyclone missle launcher?)
Frankly the Chimera is probably straight up better than the regular Taurox. Heavy bolter and a multilaser with AV12 front for almost the same cost as the Taurox's AV 11 front and a twinlinked auto-cannon. The Prime would simply be targeted and wiped off the board by anything stronger than a lasgun; a mob of ork shoota boyz could reliably bring one down with just shooting.
However, we get 2 new pieces of information. The hydra's alternate built will not be a salamander, and that a regular non-hotshot vollygun may exist.
I am really liking the rules for the Taurox Prime. For 95 points (Gatling+Heavy Stubber upgrades) you get 4 S4 AP3 shots, 10 TL S4 AP- shots, and 3 S4 AP6 shots, all at a glorious BS4. Maybe not quite a Venom, but still quite beastly.
145 points for a Scion Command Squad with full plasma has been making my eyes water, a bit late to the anti-Riptide crisis but still quite nice nonetheless. Combined with a Servo Skull Inquisitor and Psyoccolum, well the unit becomes basically broken.
D6 scatter from a servo skull, fire at a unit with Psykers in, like a psychic MC, or Farseer unit, or anything, and wipe them out with BS10 plasma.
1. What is "Hotshot Volleygun"? is it SAW version of Lasrifle? (or smaller Multilaser)
2. Ability to load an entire unit of Infantry/Scion section and being an ATV that ignores all failed rough terrain test makes it superior to Chimaera, in the other words. this is Stryker of the 41st Millenium
or isn't it?
You can just put a dozer blade on your chimera to re-roll terrain tests.
I'm not buying a Taurox because I'm not going to pay $50 for a 50 point unit. I've got two chimeras that I bought back when their prices were reasonable. My biggest fear is that they make Scions/Taurox ridiculously OP in order to sell more of their ridiculously over-priced models. Honestly, that's how you make money in this business, introduce new units that each army needs, make them OP, and then sell expensive new models of them.
Toburk wrote: Frankly the Chimera is probably straight up better than the regular Taurox. Heavy bolter and a multilaser with AV12 front for almost the same cost as the Taurox's AV 11 front and a twinlinked auto-cannon. The Prime would simply be targeted and wiped off the board by anything stronger than a lasgun; a mob of ork shoota boyz could reliably bring one down with just shooting.
Would only remain true if the Chimera is to stay the same points cost, unless that has been confirmed I wouldn't at all be surprised if they have bumped up the price of the Chimera to try and balance it against the Taurox and make the Taurox look more appealing...
Interesting that Power weapons are 15 points vs 10 in the current IG Dex and a Fist is 25 vs 15.
Could this portend the future for the IG dex??? Cheaper guys but more expensive wargear (making it a points wash)??
dkellyj wrote: Interesting that Power weapons are 15 points vs 10 in the current IG Dex and a Fist is 25 vs 15.
Could this portend the future for the IG dex??? Cheaper guys but more expensive wargear (making it a points wash)??
The costs are just copy/pasted from the various Space Marine books.
dkellyj wrote: Interesting that Power weapons are 15 points vs 10 in the current IG Dex and a Fist is 25 vs 15.
Could this portend the future for the IG dex??? Cheaper guys but more expensive wargear (making it a points wash)??
The costs are just copy/pasted from the various Space Marine books.
That's not a good design choice. A fist on a SMis worth more than a fist on a guardsman.
Honestly the DKoK grenadiers are pretty good. 12 points a model gets you BS/WS 4, carapace armor, immunity to morale problems from shooting losses, and a decent gun.
My one major point of disagreement would be the gun. I can count on one hand how many models have taken a wound due to the AP3 that they wouldn't have taken if they were AP5 or AP-, most of the time I'm facing 2+ armor, crap armor, or some sort of cover or invul save by the time those S3 18" guns come into play. For 1pt less than a CSM or Dire Avenger, they're still not particularly amazing, especially as they don't have access to much in terms of deployment options to get that AP3 into play more effectively and the low S/range of the gun makes its value somewhat overstated by the AP.
As a troops stat line I don't really know what else you can expect. The new storm troopers aren't bad because of their stat line, they're bad because they don't seem to have any kind of coherent role. They can't score, they can't really deliver special weapons all that effectively, they can't outflank/infiltrate anymore. They're dedicated MEQ killers in an army that has an abundance of dedicated anti-MEQ infantry in troops, and an abundance of tanks that just slaughter MEQs.
All true, that said, my problem with the statline is largely Ld related, the elite of the largest fighting force in the universe should be better than Ld7/8. This is huge in trying to run these units, as it's very easy to break armies built around such units. Eldar can work with T3 4+sv units when they've got mini-rending S4 assault 18" guns and lots of inbuilt psychic survivability support with enhanced mobility on foot and when mechanized and Ld9, MEQ's have their increased T and 3+ sv and Ld9, but these guys, just 1pt less, all they get is AP3.
The melee weapon point costs and loss of pistol + CCW don't really have any impact on their competitive value,
Not too much, but given that "stormtrooper" as an archetype is an assault role, having a generalist elite unit would have been nice
they're just proof that GW's rule authors (I refuse to call such hopeless incompetents "game designers") have absolutely no clue how the game works. But apparently GW exists for the sole purpose of providing "productive" employment for complete idiots who would otherwise have no hope of rising above a career as a janitor or burger flipper.
Question guys.. if that entry is indeed for new IG and not for Stormie Supplement.. does that mean IG can now take 1-3 Stormie squads for a single elite choice, and does that also mean since they're now a platoon, if you choose to deep strike them you have to hold them all in reserve, and then you only roll once for reserves for the whole platoon?
Toburk wrote: So essentially a Taurox is a more expensive, up-gunned Ork trukk?
It's really nothing like a trukk. It isn't fast, it isn't open-topped and it isn't packed with orks, so it's got a totally different battlefield role.
I'd say the closest vehicle in the game already would be a Razorback. You lose 1 BS, 1 point of side armour and the option of taking better guns for more generally useful weapons, a five point discount, a free dozer-blade equivalent and a couple of firepoints. I believe that is actually a fairly good trade-off and Razorbacks are considered a viable option.
The Chimera is a little better in most respects (less effective against light vehicles, more awkward to disembark, but tougher, better anti-personnel shooting, more transport capacity,more options and better fire points) but also a bit more expensive, so I wouldn't say that the Taurox is completely outclassed.
What I don't understand is why they would release a new vehicle which fills a very similar role to the Chimera and makes the Chimera's aesthetic design flaws much worse. I just don't see who is meant to be the market for this thing.
GenRifDrake wrote: Question guys.. if that entry is indeed for new IG and not for Stormie Supplement.. does that mean IG can now take 1-3 Stormie squads for a single elite choice, and does that also mean since they're now a platoon, if you choose to deep strike them you have to hold them all in reserve, and then you only roll once for reserves for the whole platoon?
It says for that a Stormtroop Platoon is an Elite choice for "Codex: Imperial Guard", not "Codex: Militarum Tempestus".
Yeah, because the evil bastards are selling "little Timmy" a load of Scions that he then won't be able to use in Codex: Astra Militarum, in a moustache-twirling display of senseless villainy! And we broke the story here first, folks
Or they just used Imperial Guard there instead of Astra Militarum because they're still using the two names anyway and it's quite confusing and when the unit entry is exactly the same in Codex:AM you conspiracy theorists will be NOWHERE to be found
*edit* Not sure if that was what Kanluwen was driving at, but on the other hand, if it wasn't, I'm not sure what point was being made there
On the Taurox Prime/Taurox, the vehicle upgrades tell you to "refer to Codex: Astra Militarum" and the Tempestus units tell you they are an option for "Codex: Imperial Guard".
Are you really saying you think they intentionally published rules that will only last for a week though
*edit* Your thing about the Taurox doesn't hold up anyway, the Taurox entry says any Imperial Guard unit that can take a Chimera can have one. So... where does that leave your theory? It's clearly just to delineate that Taurox can be taken by any IG unit but Primes only by Tempestus Scions or Tempestus Command Squads. It's got nothing to do with the AM/IG selling stuff people can't use bs conspiracy.
I think they made it for me. Because the new storm trooper codex is really Codex: Arbites in disguise and was only renamed after GW realized they had stopped producing Arbite miniatures. Can't wait to put flashing lights on those ugly tracked trucks.
Also, am I the only one who is disappointed that only the prime is listed as fast?
Pedro Kantor wrote: 1. It is a Salvo 2 / 4 | S 4 | AP 3 weapon and the squad can take 2 of them.
2. Not at 11 / 10 / 10 it isn't. As has been mentioned, it will be targeted for first blood and to make your Scions footslog to where you want them.
1. So the volleygun is Scion exclusive one? And does it serve a modern SAW function if normal Infantry section can take it too?
2. So it makes Taurox a hummer . correct?
1. I don't know.
2. Yes, and we learned how that worked out in Iraq. (spoiler alert: it sucked)
There's a rumor going around that they lose the armored option...which would be so stupid.
Why does GW suddenly have the habit of removing options from codexes? Or is this a "maybe they'll be in a later data slate if we get around to it" kind of situation?
Goresaw wrote: I just realized the kind of funny reason the Taurox can reroll difficult terrain tests. The writer saw that it has 4 tracks. Which is double the amount of tracks on a chimera. Therefore, more tracks = less likely to get stuck. Right? Physics?
According to the White Dwarf article, the Taurox has 2 mag plates underneath it hat help lift it off the ground while going at high speeds.
From 1936, the RRT was developed by Saurer as an artillery tractor for the Austrian army. Testing was completed and in 1937, an order was placed for the tractors which were manufactured in 1938. About 12 vehicles were made prior to “Anschluss”. After Austria was incorporated into Germany in 1938, the vehicle continued to be manufactured. Records indicate that a total of 140 units were built. The new designator for Germany was Sd Kfz 254. Notable features of this tank were its wheel-cum-track layout and a diesel motor.
Depending on terrain and speed, they could switch from wheels to tracks...."...to help lift it off the ground while going at high speeds."
General Hobbs wrote: According to the White Dwarf article, the Taurox has 2 mag plates underneath it hat help lift it off the ground while going at high speeds.
Zengu wrote: Is it safe to believe that this time next week there should be alot more info because of the next white dwarf will have more IG/ whatever its name is?
We'll probably know more about the next "wave." Earlier rumors stated that IG/AM will be released over a 3 week period. I'm assuming that the MT release this weekend will be "week 1," with the two following weeks being dedicated to the remainder of the release.
Ministry wrote: As a non-IG player these transports have "KILL ME FIRST" written all over them. Especially the Taurox prime as its more of a threat with its fast + guns options.
Taking out these paperweights will be quick and merciless for my Necrons, Tau, Eldar and Space Marine armies.
Which is fine, but it comes at the cost of not shooting at the other nasty things inside the IG list. These transports are quick, deadly, and a viable enough threat to compete as a target priority with IG tanks and artillery. I think the Taurox Prime makes a balanced mech IG list better.
I'm lolling at people who think armour is even an issue at this point
If you field light vehicles the reality is they're going to die anyway. There are many ways you can mitigate the issue, starting by not being a complete idiot that dismisses them before you've even used them.
1) Use Leman Russes as an AV14 front barrier/manipulate LOS 2) Use invuln/cover generators
3) If nothing else, you've got a cheap distraction that was never really critical to your plan in the first place unless you shoved a 10 man Stormie squad inside them (lol don't)
4) Accept the fact that they die and make sure they fire enough to justify their cost before they do
The 90 point Taurox Prime with TL Gatling and TL Hotshot Volley Gun is going to be absolute murder at 24''.
TL HSVG, BS4: 1.778 wounds on MEQ, 1.778 unsaved wounds
2.370 wounds on GEQ, 2.370 GEQ unsaved wounds
Total: 6.222 wounds inflicted on MEQ, 3.259 MEQ unsaved wounds
8.296 wounds inflicted on GEQ, 6.321 GEQ unsaved wounds
And comparing to the DE Venom with 2x SC: 4 wounds inflicted on MEQ and GEQ, 1.333 unsaved wounds on MEQ or 4 unsaved wounds on GEQ
You lost a 5+ jink, gain one AV, don't have to worry about terrain in movement, get an extra hull point, and pay about 25-30 points extra depending on how well my memory is doing. The Venom is revered as one of the greatest weapons the DE have, yet people find no appeal in the Taurox. Heh.
The Taurox Prime with TL Gatling is mental.
I wouldn't even put the Stormies inside the Taurox, I'd deep strike them and buy the Taurox Primes as dedicated transports for them.
General Hobbs wrote: According to the White Dwarf article, the Taurox has 2 mag plates underneath it hat help lift it off the ground while going at high speeds.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: At first I thought the Taurox had 2 engines because of the headers at the front and the exhaust stacks at the rear... I just realised the headers run back IN to the vehicle and then out again to the exhaust stacks.
Yes, and everyone who wants to flee from the exhausts filling the cabin is shot by the autocannons pointing at the doors
BTW the interior shows that the tracked vehicle is steered by a steering wheel!
The WD actually says you can choose between mounting the TL autocannons in the turret on on the hul - Now why would I exchange a 360 degree high mounted turret with a medium-low fixed mount?
...And FYI - most AFV's today are steered by wheel both tracked and wheeled - Its actually one of the few realistic vehicle features I've seen from GW in a long time! (Yes, yes "realistic" )
AllSeeingSkink wrote: At first I thought the Taurox had 2 engines because of the headers at the front and the exhaust stacks at the rear... I just realised the headers run back IN to the vehicle and then out again to the exhaust stacks.
Yes, and everyone who wants to flee from the exhausts filling the cabin is shot by the autocannons pointing at the doors
BTW the interior shows that the tracked vehicle is steered by a steering wheel!
The WD actually says you can choose between mounting the TL autocannons in the turret on on the hul - Now why would I exchange a 360 degree high mounted turret with a medium-low fixed mount?
...And FYI - most AFV's today are steered by wheel both tracked and wheeled - Its actually one of the few realistic vehicle features I've seen from GW in a long time! (Yes, yes "realistic" )
look closer at model, the roof obstructs it from turning, more like 2 degrees of movement.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: At first I thought the Taurox had 2 engines because of the headers at the front and the exhaust stacks at the rear... I just realised the headers run back IN to the vehicle and then out again to the exhaust stacks.
Yes, and everyone who wants to flee from the exhausts filling the cabin is shot by the autocannons pointing at the doors
BTW the interior shows that the tracked vehicle is steered by a steering wheel!
The WD actually says you can choose between mounting the TL autocannons in the turret on on the hul - Now why would I exchange a 360 degree high mounted turret with a medium-low fixed mount?
...And FYI - most AFV's today are steered by wheel both tracked and wheeled - Its actually one of the few realistic vehicle features I've seen from GW in a long time! (Yes, yes "realistic" )
look closer at model, the roof obstructs it from turning, more like 2 degrees of movement.
GW Design team...we need to talk. Sit down a second.
I know you're making models for a sci-fi/fantasy setting so you're allowed to let your imagination go wild. That said, certain things still have to be based in reality. For example, humans still look and act like humans unless there's a specific reason they don't. (example: mutation from planet's harsh atmosphere.) There are also other things to consider like vehicle design. As a military veteran and someone with basic common sense, let me be the first to tell you that mounting a large, autocannon on the rear fender is neither stable, efficient nor effective. In fact, its one of the worst places to mount a gun not counting slung under the rear axle and pointing at the treads. Sci-fi/fantasy setting yes, but laws of reason should still apply.
Let's now go to this autocannon turret you have pictured above. Do you see the height of the cannon? Now look at the rotation of it. See the problem? Yeah, that's right. It can't actually turn. That would be a design flaw. You see, in this 40k universe we've established that there are demonic forces that can bend the laws of physics, but no such power has been granted to the Imperium. Seeing as how the laws of physics are still in place, the turret design has a major problem. These are things that should be figured out before a model goes into production. In order to let the customer buy into the crazy parts of the world, you have to keep them grounded in as much realism as possible. This throws the viewer right out of the realm of believability and into the "I think this was designed by a twelve year old" category.
All of this is assuming that piece is actually meant to rotate. I'm not convinced.
Of course, from a utility standpoint, it'd be better if it did rotate, so you can actually aim the gun, but hey.
That said... which is sillier? A gun mount that doesn't rotate to allow for aim without moving the whole vehicle... or a gun mount that's meant to rotate but gets caught on the hull? Either way...
alphaecho wrote: My scottish are currently acting as storm troopers at times, but I find their kilts flying up while they deep strike a bit too repulsive to keep them as storm troopers.
If they are "true" Scots everything within 6" should have to take a blind test upon their arrival
I may propose that rule next game I think. Its only fair given the situation haha.
General Hobbs wrote: According to the White Dwarf article, the Taurox has 2 mag plates underneath it hat help lift it off the ground while going at high speeds.
...
Please tell me you're joking about this.
It's not. Page 30 shows off the part in question.
The best part is that magnets don't work that way. You would have to magnetize the substance underneath it for it to work.
Hold your tongue, vile heretek! The sacred form of The Omnissiah, made manifest in the Taurox, is far beyond your comprehension. The design for His most benificent avatar was pieced together after a millennia long study of a thousand archives and STC data fragments. Three explorator fleets were lost in the Ghoul stars recovering a STC fragment, simply to fit the hinges for the elegant portals upon its flanks. It is not your place to interpret the will of The Omnissiah, for the machine spirits of this divine creation will take offence and strike you down with fire and vengeance.
Have you lilly livered ninnies got cotton candy for brains!? This is the Militarium Tempestus private! Our turrets dont need to rotate, cas the only thing they are gonna be shootin at, is anything in front of em. Now hop to it soldier and cover the scions flanks!
Hold your tongue, vile heretek! The sacred form of The Omnissiah, made manifest in the Taurox, is far beyond your comprehension. The design for His most benificent avatar was pieced together after a millennia long study of a thousand archives and STC data fragments. Three explorator fleets were lost in the Ghoul stars recovering a STC fragment, simply to fit the hinges for the elegant portals upon its flanks. It is not your place to interpret the will of The Omnissiah, for the machine spirits of this divine creation will take offence and strike you down with fire and vengeance.
Looked at the older pics of the Taurox. The gatling turret can move a smidge to the right, but still move 90 to 95 degrees to the left, for a total of a 98 degree radius...(forward and to the left side).
Nice catch.
