1. Models made by any company can be used to play the game even homemade ones.
2. Rules must come from GW.
Which is funny, because a more sensible person might realize two very different things:
1) Models must be made by someone, and you can't get good models for free.
2) Anyone with an internet connection can pirate your rulebooks.
The obvious thing to do is focus on making money from the models and use high-quality rules, whether or not you make much (or any) money from them, to drive sales of those models. But I guess GW would rather get the short-term profit from selling a few more $50 zero-effort "books".
I despair at this.
Model quality is going downhill, the only think to increase in quality are the plastic sprues themselves, they can fit in a lot and can make big kits and GW has the tooling to build them.
Hence by doing so they think they are acting like genii. However with some exceptions most kits are badly thought out, some are poor additions to the IP for the factions concerned, not fitting in with what the faction does and then have the mess of plastic compounded by a mess of rules often with a twist to make the new models essential for competitive play.
As for the rulebooks, the edition cycle is sped up and the cost of a new codes has rocketed above and beyond the normal case for GW price hikes. Yes the books are well formatted and artistic, but the quality of text is the same mish mash and the quality of the rules is often piss poor despite decades of experience of how to do it wrong.
My main problem however is that because codexes are so expensive, are liable to replacement without warning and offer next to nothing in terms of value for money it is too tempting just to download the relevant info.
Bull0 wrote: They are a little pricey, I went to my favourite 20% off place which made it doable. I'm glad there are 5 hellguns in there. I got 4 boxes, and plan to do 2 squads of 10 and use the spares to turn 5 spare cadians into a scion command squad. Steered clear of the wagons.
Much like similar kits, this one promises to offer enough bits to convert quite a few other models to be pretty awesome.
While I do love bitz, that argument would have a lot more impact if GW still sold basic infantry boxes at a reasonable price, but the way we're going soon every bloody box will be five blokes and acres of unusable extras. Sell these alongside a box of 20 plastic Cadians for £20, and this kit gains value by osmosis, as it stands it's barely justifiable at 20% off, nevermind full price.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Hmm... Imperial Fleet rather than Imperial Navy. Is that new?
The Navy is part of the Fleet, which also encompasses to some degree all other interstellar space traffic in the Imperium except for the Rogue Traders, Mechanicus, and Inquisitorial Black Ships.
Don't know if this has been mentioned but in this weeks WD you can read the following about the Taurox: "Left: The Taurox is armed with a twin-linked autocannon that can be mounted on the sides of the hull or on a small turret."
Now why would you ever mount the guns on the sides of the hull (which is dumb by itself as if you look at the vehicle from the front it would actually hit the vehicle slightly) when you can make them turret mounted?
Does this mean for the Prime that I can have 2 weapons on the turret? or is the Prime limited to having them on the side of the hull?
From what I can tell, the Prime gets guns on the side and a turret, or guns on the side and that missile rack. The vanilla version either gets buns on the side or a turret. The guns on the side look super herpy-derpy (and can only fire straight ahead, and only at large targets or squads) so I'd just stick with the turret.
Give the widespread use of the new and completely unwelcome 'Astra Militarum' in the fluff sections posted above it seems that the name change may be far more pervasive than I originally feared. Why do you do it GW, Why?
Hmmm, 35bucks for 5 soldiers? 7bucks a model once done, no matter what style you make them.
Oh the releases talk about the stormtroopers as Ordo Tempestus apart from the IG which GW schlubs are renaming Astra Militarum, the fact that they already have FW making AM kits as in Adeptus Mechanicus, did they even bother considering how dumb the new name will sound, and how confucing it will be that they have 2 separate forces using the same acronym of A.M.????
The truck still looks unbelievably bad no matter what configuration it's in. Will probably get a cheap one on ebay at some point to make into a battlewagon.
People take the mick out of the Land Raiders side guns when they're put further back. But at least they can rotate 90 degrees to theoretically give some covering fire to people exiting out the side hatches.
As far as the taurox goes it's defiantly getting wheels when/if I get my hands on one, and side sponsons as well. The stormies fit well with my guard's medieval asthetic already so I'll need mininal kitbashing, maybe cloaks or a few WHFB bits. The thing that confused me is the "preorder" for the HWT. Price hike and spliting them into single packages because GW thinks we won't notice it then?
Ir0njack wrote: The thing that confused me is the "preorder" for the HWT. Price hike and spliting them into single packages because GW thinks we won't notice it then?
Of course. Why sell 3 for $30 when you can sell one for $15?
1. Models made by any company can be used to play the game even homemade ones.
2. Rules must come from GW.
Which is funny, because a more sensible person might realize two very different things:
1) Models must be made by someone, and you can't get good models for free.
2) Anyone with an internet connection can pirate your rulebooks.
The obvious thing to do is focus on making money from the models and use high-quality rules, whether or not you make much (or any) money from them, to drive sales of those models. But I guess GW would rather get the short-term profit from selling a few more $50 zero-effort "books".
I despair at this.
Model quality is going downhill, the only think to increase in quality are the plastic sprues themselves, they can fit in a lot and can make big kits and GW has the tooling to build them.
Hence by doing so they think they are acting like genii. However with some exceptions most kits are badly thought out, some are poor additions to the IP for the factions concerned, not fitting in with what the faction does and then have the mess of plastic compounded by a mess of rules often with a twist to make the new models essential for competitive play.
As for the rulebooks, the edition cycle is sped up and the cost of a new codes has rocketed above and beyond the normal case for GW price hikes. Yes the books are well formatted and artistic, but the quality of text is the same mish mash and the quality of the rules is often piss poor despite decades of experience of how to do it wrong.
My main problem however is that because codexes are so expensive, are liable to replacement without warning and offer next to nothing in terms of value for money it is too tempting just to download the relevant info.
There is another business model out there that another company has used instead to generate steady and consistent growth. They have really solid rules, models that aren't always the best, but are often better than GW. They release small amounts for all factions. They provide a lot of support to generate a quality competitive scene, which in turn allows them to require their models to be used on said scene therefore limiting the use of second party models. Did I mention that they're not money grubbing bastards beholden to investors that don't care about the product?
Leprousy wrote: There is another business model out there that another company has used instead to generate steady and consistent growth. They have really solid rules, models that aren't always the best, but are often better than GW. They release small amounts for all factions. They provide a lot of support to generate a quality competitive scene, which in turn allows them to require their models to be used on said scene therefore limiting the use of second party models. Did I mention that they're not money grubbing bastards beholden to investors that don't care about the product?
I can see a few worms trying to wriggle their way out of that can you're opening. I suggest you shut it before they escape.
Does anyone else find the basic equipment on the Scions weird to the point of it being a mistake in the WD rules?
Everybody: Carapace Armor, Hotshot Lasgun
-Okay, nothing weird here
Tempestus Scions only: Hotshot Laspistol
-Soooo regular dudes get a pistol, but the squad leader doesn't? This goes against every trend in 40k ever that I'm aware of.
Tempestor only: Close combat weapon, Frag & Krak grenades
-WTF? First he trades a pistol for a sword (serious downgrade), then he's the only one carrying the squad's grenades? That's the daftest thing in the whole rules list. When has there ever been grenade options ONLY on the squad leader?
I'm pretty sure the laspistol and lasgun options were just an unintentional swap, as the Tempestor is later given the option to swap out his pistol for something else. Grenades on just one guy, though. This is just weird.
Either way, my old super-cool bolter/plasma pistol armed Stormtrooper Sergeant is no longer legal.
Basically you're reading it wrong because of the way the text wraps around from line to line. The troopers have hot shot lasguns, the sgt has pistol and ccw, they all have grenades. Honestly, no offence but I am not sure why you would jump to your conclusion like that - they are essentially the same as every other IG type squad.
TedNugent wrote: But here in the real world, where there is government enforced monopolies over the distribution of copyrighted content and you have a de facto sole legitimate distributor on the marketplace, yeah, gouging exists. Stop being a Randroid and look at the actual government system we have rather than your textbook capitalist fantasy world, please. We live under a mixed economic system, and believe it or not, the government is a party to every legitimate transaction.
No, gouging is not relevant here. Gouging applies only to essential goods and services, and there is no plausible definition of "essential" that includes toys like GW produces. Gouging is selling $1 bottles of water for $100 in the aftermath of a natural disaster that shut down the entire city's water supply, not charging more than you want to pay for a toy.
As far as I'm aware, gouging simply refers to charging a price higher than is considered fair. The term doesn't have to refer to essential goods, but price gouging on essential goods is illegal in many places and often the thing people are referring to when they say "gouging".
Leprousy wrote: There is another business model out there that another company has used instead to generate steady and consistent growth. They have really solid rules, models that aren't always the best, but are often better than GW. They release small amounts for all factions. They provide a lot of support to generate a quality competitive scene, which in turn allows them to require their models to be used on said scene therefore limiting the use of second party models. Did I mention that they're not money grubbing bastards beholden to investors that don't care about the product?
I can see a few worms trying to wriggle their way out of that can you're opening. I suggest you shut it before they escape.
Good point. Merely trying to point out that GWs reasoning isn't only flawed, as was being discussed, but is built on a faulty foundation. The other company isn't perfect, and isn't the only workable business model, but it is a solid one. Honestly if GW took the money they spend on unnecessary lawsuits, and put towards game design, and supporting a competitive scene they could solve two problems at once: Make the game balanced, and encourage the use of GW models.
I say this as a painter that doesn't compete, but we have all witnessed what a grassroots community oriented campaign to create a supported scene can do. I keep coming back to this thread in the hopes that I'll be inspired to restart my IG force, but I think I'm to the point of selling/trading it. Any body need an army that's painted well above tabletop quality?
shasolenzabi wrote: Hmmm, 35bucks for 5 soldiers? 7bucks a model once done, no matter what style you make them.
Oh the releases talk about the stormtroopers as Ordo Tempestus apart from the IG which GW schlubs are renaming Astra Militarum, the fact that they already have FW making AM kits as in Adeptus Mechanicus, did they even bother considering how dumb the new name will sound, and how confucing it will be that they have 2 separate forces using the same acronym of A.M.????
Biophysical wrote: Does anyone else find the basic equipment on the Scions weird to the point of it being a mistake in the WD rules?
Everybody: Carapace Armor, Hotshot Lasgun
-Okay, nothing weird here
Tempestus Scions only: Hotshot Laspistol
-Soooo regular dudes get a pistol, but the squad leader doesn't? This goes against every trend in 40k ever that I'm aware of.
Tempestor only: Close combat weapon, Frag & Krak grenades
-WTF? First he trades a pistol for a sword (serious downgrade), then he's the only one carrying the squad's grenades? That's the daftest thing in the whole rules list. When has there ever been grenade options ONLY on the squad leader?
I'm pretty sure the laspistol and lasgun options were just an unintentional swap, as the Tempestor is later given the option to swap out his pistol for something else. Grenades on just one guy, though. This is just weird.
Either way, my old super-cool bolter/plasma pistol armed Stormtrooper Sergeant is no longer legal.
I think that the (this model only) bits are meant to be after the wargear name.
So it should be read as:
Carapace Armour
Hotshot Lasgun (Tempestus Scions only)
Hotshot Laspistol (Tempestor only)
Close Combat Weapon
Frag and Krak Grenades
Biophysical wrote: Does anyone else find the basic equipment on the Scions weird to the point of it being a mistake in the WD rules?
Everybody: Carapace Armor, Hotshot Lasgun -Okay, nothing weird here
Tempestus Scions only: Hotshot Laspistol -Soooo regular dudes get a pistol, but the squad leader doesn't? This goes against every trend in 40k ever that I'm aware of.
Tempestor only: Close combat weapon, Frag & Krak grenades -WTF? First he trades a pistol for a sword (serious downgrade), then he's the only one carrying the squad's grenades? That's the daftest thing in the whole rules list. When has there ever been grenade options ONLY on the squad leader?
I'm pretty sure the laspistol and lasgun options were just an unintentional swap, as the Tempestor is later given the option to swap out his pistol for something else. Grenades on just one guy, though. This is just weird.
Either way, my old super-cool bolter/plasma pistol armed Stormtrooper Sergeant is no longer legal.
The Tempestor has a Hotshot laspistol, and everyone does have grenades.
Biophysical wrote: Does anyone else find the basic equipment on the Scions weird to the point of it being a mistake in the WD rules?
Everybody: Carapace Armor, Hotshot Lasgun
-Okay, nothing weird here
Tempestus Scions only: Hotshot Laspistol
-Soooo regular dudes get a pistol, but the squad leader doesn't? This goes against every trend in 40k ever that I'm aware of.
Tempestor only: Close combat weapon, Frag & Krak grenades
-WTF? First he trades a pistol for a sword (serious downgrade), then he's the only one carrying the squad's grenades? That's the daftest thing in the whole rules list. When has there ever been grenade options ONLY on the squad leader?
I'm pretty sure the laspistol and lasgun options were just an unintentional swap, as the Tempestor is later given the option to swap out his pistol for something else. Grenades on just one guy, though. This is just weird.
Either way, my old super-cool bolter/plasma pistol armed Stormtrooper Sergeant is no longer legal.
The Tempestor has a Hotshot laspistol, and everyone does have grenades.
Read the entry carefully.
Notice the placement of commas. Although the way they laid this out is silly, they should have made new lines for each entry. Even i could do that.
Biophysical wrote: Thanks to everybody who pointed out the text wrapping issues. It makes much more sense that way. I'm not sure why I didn't see that.
Yeah, the wall-of-text format they use for wargear can get confusing. Fine if everyone is the same unit type with the same gear (like necrons).
Not so fine for more complex units.
Biophysical wrote: Thanks to everybody who pointed out the text wrapping issues. It makes much more sense that way. I'm not sure why I didn't see that.
Yeah, the wall-of-text format they use for wargear can get confusing. Fine if everyone is the same unit type with the same gear (like necrons).
Not so fine for more complex units.
It's not confusing when you look at the Tempestor's upgrade options.
SJM wrote: I guess you could save some money and buy the earlier design - lol
Funny I had that kit in my closet for years to turn into an IG truck. Finally threw it out a year or two ago.
Just for the record: The quads were all unarmoured despite the look.
I never thought Quad tractors ever looked armoured, too much glass. However I do wonder if someone in the War Office decided 'lets make it orky'. That kit would make excellent battlewagon conversion material.
Interesting find. Assuming this carries over to IG/AM, there are a few things that stick out.
No gun slinger plasma option. Was nice to sometimes have 2 BS5 precision plasma shots.
Also, if LC is now an upgrade, does this mean you can't take Comms in Platoons and they're both HQ, or that neither are HQ and you can only take them in platoons? Also, do either of them have Independent Character?
I shall be very annoyed if they can't be HQs, as my IG have been commissar-led from the start.
Paradigm wrote: Interesting find. Assuming this carries over to IG/AM, there are a few things that stick out.
No gun slinger plasma option. Was nice to sometimes have 2 BS5 precision plasma shots.
Also, if LC is now an upgrade, does this mean you can't take Comms in Platoons and they're both HQ, or that neither are HQ and you can only take them in platoons? Also, do either of them have Independent Character?
I shall be very annoyed if they can't be HQs, as my IG have been commissar-led from the start.
The skull in the circle is the HQFOC symbol. And given that this is the Stormtrooper book, commissars may only be HQ in there, while Codex IG/AM has them as HQ and platoon squad upgrades.
Leprousy wrote: Did I mention that they're not money grubbing bastards beholden to investors that don't care about the product?
We're talking about a company that sold the rights to one of their games, effectively killing it in the middle of a release cycle and leaving players with half-complete factions? That one?
TedNugent wrote: But here in the real world, where there is government enforced monopolies over the distribution of copyrighted content and you have a de facto sole legitimate distributor on the marketplace, yeah, gouging exists. Stop being a Randroid and look at the actual government system we have rather than your textbook capitalist fantasy world, please. We live under a mixed economic system, and believe it or not, the government is a party to every legitimate transaction.
No, gouging is not relevant here. Gouging applies only to essential goods and services, and there is no plausible definition of "essential" that includes toys like GW produces. Gouging is selling $1 bottles of water for $100 in the aftermath of a natural disaster that shut down the entire city's water supply, not charging more than you want to pay for a toy.
As far as I'm aware, gouging simply refers to charging a price higher than is considered fair. The term doesn't have to refer to essential goods, but price gouging on essential goods is illegal in many places and often the thing people are referring to when they say "gouging".
You're making the mistake of approaching the issue from the perspective of a normal, rational human being for whom concepts like fairness and reciprocity have meaning. Randroids and other militant capitalists don't believe such things exist; there is only The Holy Market, and whatever price it will bear.
The main thing we get from this is that Commissars start out at 25, and Lord Commissars start at 65.
So Commissars are 10pts cheaper and Lord Commissars are 5pts cheaper. Wonder if they've changed the rules for them at all.
They certainly did, both are initiative 3 now. And I thought Commissars had 2 wounds. But they do get refractor fields.
Still don't get why Scions have ld 7.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From the iBooks preview:
"Tempestus Scions
Shock assault troops without peer, Tempestus Scions are elite soldiers used to enact missions that the regular Imperial Guard cannot accomplish alone."
Good to know that Scions are better shock troops than Space Marines.
"their indoctrinated sense of obedience and duty overrides any instincts of personal safety...Tempestus Scions will stop at nothing to fulfil (sic.) their orders"
So I guess that means unless they fail their ld 7 test.
They certainly did, both are initiative 3 now. And I thought Commissars had 2 wounds. But they do get refractor fields.
Only Lord Commissars have Refractor Fields.
Basic Commissars at the moment can only be purchased as upgrades to Platoon Command Squads/Infantry Squads and they only have 1 wound.
Still don't get why Scions have ld 7.
Because Stormtroopers are LD7 now?
Sergeants are LD8--the Tempestors are LD8.
The Tempestor Prime(Junior Officer equivalent for the Tempest Platoon Command Squad) is LD9, same as a basic Commissar is at the moment.
They certainly did, both are initiative 3 now. And I thought Commissars had 2 wounds. But they do get refractor fields.
Still don't get why Scions have ld 7.
Automatically Appended Next Post: From the iBooks preview:
"Tempestus Scions
Shock assault troops without peer, Tempestus Scions are elite soldiers used to enact missions that the regular Imperial Guard cannot accomplish alone."
Good to know that Scions are better shock troops than Space Marines.
"their indoctrinated sense of obedience and duty overrides any instincts of personal safety...Tempestus Scions will stop at nothing to fulfil (sic.) their orders"
So I guess that means unless they fail their ld 7 test.
And typos? Seriously GW? This book costs $50.
Cause those rare and elite Space Wolves Grey Hunters with 300 years of battle experience, psycho indoctrination, Canis Helix, ATSKNF and LD8 simply can't be everywhere, right? Not to mention that they like to sing and dance with Eldar, while slaughtering Sisters of Battle, so they aren't exactly "reliable".
Why wouldn't the Guard try to train some elite guys instead?
So Commissars are 10pts cheaper and Lord Commissars are 5pts cheaper. Wonder if they've changed the rules for them at all.
They certainly did, both are initiative 3 now. And I thought Commissars had 2 wounds. But they do get refractor fields.
Not in the current dex although they were 2 wounds IIRC and definitely were I4 two books ago. The "new" thing in that entry is that the commissar and lord are together where as before the commissar was an upgrade option in other units' entries like a line on the platoon page.
"Tempestus Scions
Shock assault troops without peer, Tempestus Scions are elite soldiers used to enact missions that the regular Imperial Guard cannot accomplish alone."
Good to know that Scions are better shock troops than Space Marines.
Space Marines can't be everywhere at once, and they don't take orders from the Guard.
"their indoctrinated sense of obedience and duty overrides any instincts of personal safety...Tempestus Scions will stop at nothing to fulfil (sic.) their orders"
So I guess that means unless they fail their ld 7 test.
Well, with Clarion Vox-Network from a Platoon Command Squad they're LD9.
Paradigm wrote: Interesting find. Assuming this carries over to IG/AM, there are a few things that stick out.
No gun slinger plasma option. Was nice to sometimes have 2 BS5 precision plasma shots.
Also, if LC is now an upgrade, does this mean you can't take Comms in Platoons and they're both HQ, or that neither are HQ and you can only take them in platoons? Also, do either of them have Independent Character?
I shall be very annoyed if they can't be HQs, as my IG have been commissar-led from the start.
The skull in the circle is the HQFOC symbol. And given that this is the Stormtrooper book, commissars may only be HQ in there, while Codex IG/AM has them as HQ and platoon squad upgrades.
Good to know they're still HQ (I don't like CCS). Although I hope they re still available in platoons as well.
Didn't notice the drop in init, that's kind-of annoying as I could usually rely on my LC taking out MEQ sergeants in challenges. Now they swing last, a power weapon could end up being painful (a maul would ID him if it got through)
Paradigm wrote: Didn't notice the drop in init, that's kind-of annoying as I could usually rely on my LC taking out MEQ sergeants in challenges. Now they swing last, a power weapon could end up being painful (a maul would ID him if it got through)
Lord Commissars are I3 in the current Codex, so no drop.
I'm with you . There will probably be supplements for days on all the different IG army's because GW knows that's what the people wants and will charge $50 for each one. The nerve
"Don't worry, let me install you a single-use, disposable replacement bionic arm!"
**Jams tree branch in the stump**
"Thanks Doc; I'm ready for action now!"
"For the EMPRAH!"
I think they mean it isn't a proper bionic arm (like one that would have been installed by a techpriest), but instead a temporary replacement arm that's meant to last until the wounded receives proper treatment.
It probably has limited run time or is weaker or something.
BrookM wrote: Digital edition is now also on pre-order with some nice art previews:
Single-use, disposable bionics?
Single-use.
Disposable.
Bionics!?!?
"Doc, DOC! I just lost my arm!"
"Don't worry, let me install you a single-use, disposable replacement bionic arm!"
**Jams tree branch in the stump**
"Thanks Doc; I'm ready for action now!"
"For the EMPRAH!"
I think they mean it isn't a proper bionic arm (like one that would have been installed by a techpriest), but instead a temporary replacement arm that's meant to last until the wounded receives proper treatment.
It probably has limited run time or is weaker or something.
Yep. Pretty clear it's a limited-use field replacement. Like a bionic eye, or whatever. Probably not a whole arm, you'd struggle to fit that in there.
Ir0njack wrote: The thing that confused me is the "preorder" for the HWT. Price hike and spliting them into single packages because GW thinks we won't notice it then?
Of course. Why sell 3 for $30 when you can sell one for $15?
This way they can create a nice one-click bundle of 3 HWT to save their customers from having to put three of them in their cart sepererately. Oh, wait...
It's useful to be able to get one team again, like you used to. If you're unhappy about the price increase get the 3-man box. Which you can still get, and the price hasn't changed. But you know
Leprousy wrote: Did I mention that they're not money grubbing bastards beholden to investors that don't care about the product?
We're talking about a company that sold the rights to one of their games, effectively killing it in the middle of a release cycle and leaving players with half-complete factions? That one?
What game was that? Is the Hobbit/LOTR finally dead?!
€38 for the Taurox?
I dont usually complain about GW prices - if you like it, buy it but for its stats this seems a littlre crazy imo.
Its basically a Rhino with a bit more firepower?
Am I missing something?
azreal13 wrote: ... alongside the slightly more important one that the arc of fire, RAW, for the turret is directly ahead, as it cannot rotate left or right.
What makes you say that?
Because I slightly misinterpreted how it was connected. If the turret is supposed to pivot around the base of the pod, rather than the weapon, which in the light of day looks to be the case (I'd initially thought the pod was static and the gun was a separate item.)
It now looks more like the gun can traverse left, although that looks horribly vulnerable to getting snagged IRL and to enemy fire in universe, but if it try to traverse right, the rear of the gun looks like it will snarl up on the raised roof of the rear section. It might just have clearance, but given the rules states the arc is supposedly governed by how the gun moves on the model (I know most reasonable players won't enforce this, but we'd still need an idea of what arc the gun is supposed to have) it looks like it might be an issue, potentially.
Ratius wrote: €38 for the Taurox?
I dont usually complain about GW prices - if you like it, buy it but for its stats this seems a littlre crazy imo.
Its basically a Rhino with a bit more firepower?
Am I missing something?
It looks bigger than a Rhino and has diverse weapon options and interior detail. Being more expensive than a Razorback isn't crazy to me from a model perspective. From a points/$ perspective...
And didn't they say at one point Chimera engines were in the side track areas?
Yup. It's been since the beginning or so that the Chimera has two "independent engines" in the track assemblies.
The Chimera was based off the real world BMP... here is a pic of what it looks like inside...the "benches" in the back inside sides house the engines.
Sorry, no.
The engine is on the front right side, next to the driver, just like it is in a Bradley. The enclosure in the back houses fuel and batteries.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you think that it's stupid to place those between the seats for the squad riding in the back, I hope you'll also notice the fuel tanks in the rear doors, the lack of turret screens separating the crew compartment from the turret, and the lack of screens to prevent the gunner from having his arm grabbed by the autoloader.
azreal13 wrote: ... alongside the slightly more important one that the arc of fire, RAW, for the turret is directly ahead, as it cannot rotate left or right.
What makes you say that?
Because I slightly misinterpreted how it was connected. If the turret is supposed to pivot around the base of the pod, rather than the weapon, which in the light of day looks to be the case (I'd initially thought the pod was static and the gun was a separate item.)
It now looks more like the gun can traverse left, although that looks horribly vulnerable to getting snagged IRL and to enemy fire in universe, but if it try to traverse right, the rear of the gun looks like it will snarl up on the raised roof of the rear section. It might just have clearance, but given the rules states the arc is supposedly governed by how the gun moves on the model (I know most reasonable players won't enforce this, but we'd still need an idea of what arc the gun is supposed to have) it looks like it might be an issue, potentially.
Yes, the BMP 1 & 2 had a right front engine....
However, The BMP-3 is powered by the UTD-29 diesel engine, developing 500 hp. Engine is mounted at the rear. This IFV has a hydropneumatic suspension, which can be adjusted to suit the type of ground being crossed. Vehicle is fully amphibious. Propulsion on water is provided by two waterjets.
I have a confession! I kind of like the Taurox, I also really like the Scions and Ogres they have this (world of warcraft stylized cartoon) look to them.
I went ahead and ordered 4 boxes of Scions (not from GW of course!) I will not be ordering a Taurox, until I see the new Chimera rules.
If possible I do plan on making a full Stormtrooper/Ogre army.
Ugh, I just noticed that the fender guns would also hit those pipes on the prime.
That's even worse than shooting past the doors; there's a rear entry so you can imagine the passengers exiting through a place that is not certain death.
There's no way though that those pipes can avoid the gun fire.
It's missing the multilaser tip?
Other than that it looks alot better!
But the 11/10/10 is ultimately the deal breaker for me. Unless the Chimera gets too expensive (point's wise), they're staying.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Ugh, I just noticed that the fender guns would also hit those pipes on the prime.
That's even worse than shooting past the doors; there's a rear entry so you can imagine the passengers exiting through a place that is not certain death.
There's no way though that those pipes can avoid the gun fire.
1.We admitted we were powerless over the ugly appeal of the Taurox —that our lives had become unmanageable.
2.Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves, Games Workshop, could restore us to sanity.
3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of fellow Dakkanites and our gaming club
4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves and our GW40k collection.
5.Admitted to fellow Dakkanites, to ourselves, and to our gaming group the exact nature of our wrong of liking the Taurox
6.Were entirely ready to have our fellow Dakkanites slam us for liking the Taurox
7.Humbly asked them to remove our shortcomings and pro Taurox posts
8.Made a list of all persons in our gaming group we had harmed or insulted in bringing a Taurox to a game
9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others (i.e. throwing the Taurox out a moving car window).
10.Continued to take personal inventory of our 40k army, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it and sold the Taurox on ebay for 20% what it cost
11.Sought through a roll of 2d6 & a chart how to improve our conscious contact with our gaming group, hoping the Taurox mistake can be forgiven.
12.Having had a gamers awakening as the result of these steps, and NEVER EVER GET ANOTHER TAUROX for my army
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Ugh, I just noticed that the fender guns would also hit those pipes on the prime.
That's even worse than shooting past the doors; there's a rear entry so you can imagine the passengers exiting through a place that is not certain death.
There's no way though that those pipes can avoid the gun fire.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Ugh, I just noticed that the fender guns would also hit those pipes on the prime.
That's even worse than shooting past the doors; there's a rear entry so you can imagine the passengers exiting through a place that is not certain death.
There's no way though that those pipes can avoid the gun fire.
How so?
Huh, must be the perspective of the side view then. That's ok I guess. It's still very close to dangerous, but not as bad as I thought it was. The fact that there's a rear exit actually makes the fender guns more plausible, as then the soldiers have somewhere to go. Still a silly design, but not as silly as people make it out to be.
I actually really like the comedy aspect of the rear access point being a circular hatch, because that is conducive to ten full grown, armed and armoured men disembarking in a hurry while under fire!
azreal13 wrote: I actually really like the comedy aspect of the rear access point being a circular hatch, because that is conducive to ten full grown, armed and armoured men disembarking in a hurry while under fire!
Well, that's silly. It should be a ramp, not a hatch :/
azreal13 wrote: I actually really like the comedy aspect of the rear access point being a circular hatch, because that is conducive to ten full grown, armed and armoured men disembarking in a hurry while under fire!
kind of like jumping through a flaming hoop. Especially while it's blowing up!
Remember there're Commissars in the army. If some cowards want to disembark (through the side doors) and try to flee into safety they get executed immediately.
azreal13 wrote: I actually really like the comedy aspect of the rear access point being a circular hatch, because that is conducive to ten full grown, armed and armoured men disembarking in a hurry while under fire!
azreal13 wrote: I actually really like the comedy aspect of the rear access point being a circular hatch, because that is conducive to ten full grown, armed and armoured men disembarking in a hurry while under fire!
Ratius wrote: Are Humans supposed to get in the above and feel safe? lol
It's the M113 APC. It came about thanks to the Vietnam War.
It's also what the Rhino basically is.
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Dryaktylus wrote: Remember there're Commissars in the army. If some cowards want to disembark (through the side doors) and try to flee into safety they get executed immediately.
Yeah, and the Commissars are as likely to break as a Scion within 18" of the Command Squad.
Well, now having seen more pics of them and the rules and points in full, I like them more! One thing to be said, they make an excellent kill-team for games. So i have pre-ordered the scions and a taurox. Should be fun, lots of AP3 weapons, and a FAST tank. Never underestimate a fast vehicle, 18 inch move and 5+ cover due to jink can be very handy. I think they could well be seen across AM armies all over the place. I mean the interior detail is fantastic and the four tracks idea actually makes more sense, as they'll be able to go over more difficult terrain than lots of wheels. Just need to come up with a cool paint scheme.
Ratius wrote: Are Humans supposed to get in the above and feel safe? lol
It's the M113 APC. It came about thanks to the Vietnam War.
It's also what the Rhino basically is.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dryaktylus wrote: Remember there're Commissars in the army. If some cowards want to disembark (through the side doors) and try to flee into safety they get executed immediately.
Yeah, and the Commissars are as likely to break as a Scion within 18" of the Command Squad.
Rear door is totally wrong for an M113. It's a M114.
1.We admitted we were powerless over the ugly appeal of the Taurox —that our lives had become unmanageable.
2.Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves, Games Workshop, could restore us to sanity.
3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of fellow Dakkanites and our gaming club
4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves and our GW40k collection.
5.Admitted to fellow Dakkanites, to ourselves, and to our gaming group the exact nature of our wrong of liking the Taurox
6.Were entirely ready to have our fellow Dakkanites slam us for liking the Taurox
7.Humbly asked them to remove our shortcomings and pro Taurox posts
8.Made a list of all persons in our gaming group we had harmed or insulted in bringing a Taurox to a game
9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others (i.e. throwing the Taurox out a moving car window).
10.Continued to take personal inventory of our 40k army, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it and sold the Taurox on ebay for 20% what it cost
11.Sought through a roll of 2d6 & a chart how to improve our conscious contact with our gaming group, hoping the Taurox mistake can be forgiven.
12.Having had a gamers awakening as the result of these steps, and NEVER EVER GET ANOTHER TAUROX for my army
Bull0 wrote: It's useful to be able to get one team again, like you used to. If you're unhappy about the price increase get the 3-man box. Which you can still get, and the price hasn't changed. But you know
Funnily enough I was in Frankfurt and stopped by the local gw to grab some guard and a hwt along with some DE for the wife and if was only later when I had notice the one team set. But was looking at the america ssite and compared it to the german price and well... my math skills were never very good. Unforunatly couldnt squeeze anything out of the redshirt about anything that might have arrived early, I tried my best though Dakka, honestly.
Back on topic though. So we have the stormies, ogryn, taurox, and hydra that have been confirmed, think thats it for the guard updat as far as new stuff??
It is interesting to me how many times I see that if you are going to scratch build a model, it has to look like what it represents. Then they release a new vehicle and say: "You can choose to build the Taurox Prime gun turret with battle cannon or a twin-linked Taurox gatling cannon."
Only in the picture, that looks more like an autocannon.
I do like the infantry models, but they are pretty much stormtroopers.
And rather selfishly, I have to ask, GW, where is the Ork codex? It has been 7 years.
Gorgrimm wrote: WTHGW, that is yet another ugly model. (Taurox)
It is interesting to me how many times I see that if you are going to scratch build a model, it has to look like what it represents. Then they release a new vehicle and say: "You can choose to build the Taurox Prime gun turret with battle cannon or a twin-linked Taurox gatling cannon."
Only in the picture, that looks more like an autocannon.
I do like the infantry models, but they are pretty much stormtroopers.
And rather selfishly, I have to ask, GW, where is the Ork codex? It has been 7 years.
A price drop on Commisars (Whose stats didn't change, had to go eyeball that after all the up-thread chatter) makes me lament the non-existance of a plastic COmmisar box. Toss five plastics in there (Make one female, just to mess with people and drive the secondary market), give a nice assortement of gear, call it $20 (Or, well, more likely $35 in today's GW, le sigh) and watch 'em fly out of there.
Let's see. Five bolt pistols, five swords, maybe toss an axe, mace, even a spear in there for CCW giggles, a power axe and three power swords, a power fist, two boltguns, three plasma pistols, some assorted flair (cigarette on a stick, cigar, swagger stick, a bulldog, whatever), should be good to go. Make one of 'em a little fancy for use as a Commissar Lord to be nice.
Gorgrimm wrote: WTHGW, that is yet another ugly model. (Taurox)
It is interesting to me how many times I see that if you are going to scratch build a model, it has to look like what it represents. Then they release a new vehicle and say: "You can choose to build the Taurox Prime gun turret with battle cannon or a twin-linked Taurox gatling cannon."
Only in the picture, that looks more like an autocannon.
Because it's not a Leman Russ battle cannon, but rather a smaller calibre cannon.
Rulewise it's less powerful than the standard battle cannon. Not by a huge amount, mind you, but enough to justify there being two different items. Plus it's called the "Taurox Prime Battle Cannon".
I do like the infantry models, but they are pretty much stormtroopers.
Because they are Stormtroopers. Militarum Tempestus=rebranded Stormtroopers.
And rather selfishly, I have to ask, GW, where is the Ork codex? It has been 7 years.
And the Ork book, purportedly, is well into its development cycle...while the current one is still going strong, at least according to some players.
Gorgrimm wrote: WTHGW, that is yet another ugly model. (Taurox)
It is interesting to me how many times I see that if you are going to scratch build a model, it has to look like what it represents. Then they release a new vehicle and say: "You can choose to build the Taurox Prime gun turret with battle cannon or a twin-linked Taurox gatling cannon."
Only in the picture, that looks more like an autocannon.
I do like the infantry models, but they are pretty much stormtroopers.
And rather selfishly, I have to ask, GW, where is the Ork codex? It has been 7 years.
The Taurox and Taurox Prime have different weapon options. The Taurox can have turret autocannons, the Prime has the battlecannon/ gatling options.
Well, there goes my dual plasma pistol commander. Hope that doesn't go over to the Company command squad.
I can't get over how dumb that is, gunslinger is a rule IN THE MAIN RULEBOOK. There is no reason they should not be able to swap for two guns.
Just because it's a rule doesn't mean that everyone should have access to it, IMO.
I understand that. Joe the average sergeant should not be able to, but heroes like Commissars or company level commanders, who probably have much more of a choice on how they equip themselves, should be able to.
Well, there goes my dual plasma pistol commander. Hope that doesn't go over to the Company command squad.
I can't get over how dumb that is, gunslinger is a rule IN THE MAIN RULEBOOK. There is no reason they should not be able to swap for two guns.
Just because it's a rule doesn't mean that everyone should have access to it, IMO.
I understand that. Joe the average sergeant should not be able to, but heroes like Commissars or company level commanders, who probably have much more of a choice on how they equip themselves, should be able to.
It's less "Cinematic" when Joe the Sgt. does it......
Well, there goes my dual plasma pistol commander. Hope that doesn't go over to the Company command squad.
I can't get over how dumb that is, gunslinger is a rule IN THE MAIN RULEBOOK. There is no reason they should not be able to swap for two guns.
Just because it's a rule doesn't mean that everyone should have access to it, IMO.
I understand that. Joe the average sergeant should not be able to, but heroes like Commissars or company level commanders, who probably have much more of a choice on how they equip themselves, should be able to.
Actually, I don't think they do. I can't see commissars or stormtrooper leaders duel wielding as if they were in a John Woo flick - it goes against the IoM's combat training and style. I mean, something like Chaos, sure. But Commies are too regimented and strict.
The only IoM unit that I can think of who duel wields are the serephim, and their style of combat revolves around gun-slinging.
Well, there goes my dual plasma pistol commander. Hope that doesn't go over to the Company command squad.
I can't get over how dumb that is, gunslinger is a rule IN THE MAIN RULEBOOK. There is no reason they should not be able to swap for two guns.
Just because it's a rule doesn't mean that everyone should have access to it, IMO.
I understand that. Joe the average sergeant should not be able to, but heroes like Commissars or company level commanders, who probably have much more of a choice on how they equip themselves, should be able to.
It's less "Cinematic" when Joe the Sgt. does it......
Which is why I think Joe the Sgt. should be left in the cold on this one. Maybe when he makes Major, but until then, "gunslinger" should be a heroes only thing and should be available to the IG.
The main thing we get from this is that Commissars start out at 25, and Lord Commissars start at 65.
Well, there goes my dual plasma pistol commander. Hope that doesn't go over to the Company command squad.
I can't get over how dumb that is, gunslinger is a rule IN THE MAIN RULEBOOK. There is no reason they should not be able to swap for two guns.
The screen shots from ibooks have been wrong before. Its also possible its a legitimate error and the option should and soon afrer release will read "close combat weapon and/or bolt pistol" and ad an 'each' to the points costs.
Of course, they are likely to make the options match the models they sell and these options match up pretty well so don't hold your breath.
Left Hand of the Pheonix wrote: Well, now having seen more pics of them and the rules and points in full, I like them more! One thing to be said, they make an excellent kill-team for games. So i have pre-ordered the scions and a taurox. Should be fun, lots of AP3 weapons, and a FAST tank. Never underestimate a fast vehicle, 18 inch move and 5+ cover due to jink can be very handy. I think they could well be seen across AM armies all over the place. I mean the interior detail is fantastic and the four tracks idea actually makes more sense, as they'll be able to go over more difficult terrain than lots of wheels. Just need to come up with a cool paint scheme.
Which would be helpful if they got jink.
They don't. Neither do Ork trukks or buggies.
Only fast SKIMMERS get jink, unfortunately, vehicle-wise
I can still see them having a use though, as fast expendable rapid-deployment vehicles that you don't expect to live that long.
I don't play guard, but i'd be happy to pay those points for the thing for my orks.
I can still see them having a use though, as fast expendable rapid-deployment vehicles that you don't expect to live that long.
I don't play guard, but i'd be happy to pay those points for the thing for my orks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Left Hand of the Pheonix wrote: Well, now having seen more pics of them and the rules and points in full, I like them more! One thing to be said, they make an excellent kill-team for games. So i have pre-ordered the scions and a taurox. Should be fun, lots of AP3 weapons, and a FAST tank. Never underestimate a fast vehicle, 18 inch move and 5+ cover due to jink can be very handy. I think they could well be seen across AM armies all over the place. I mean the interior detail is fantastic and the four tracks idea actually makes more sense, as they'll be able to go over more difficult terrain than lots of wheels. Just need to come up with a cool paint scheme.
They can take smoke launchers though. Only lasts a turn, but should increase their resilience.
1.We admitted we were powerless over the ugly appeal of the Taurox —that our lives had become unmanageable.
2.Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves, Games Workshop, could restore us to sanity.
3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of fellow Dakkanites and our gaming club
4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves and our GW40k collection.
5.Admitted to fellow Dakkanites, to ourselves, and to our gaming group the exact nature of our wrong of liking the Taurox
6.Were entirely ready to have our fellow Dakkanites slam us for liking the Taurox
7.Humbly asked them to remove our shortcomings and pro Taurox posts
8.Made a list of all persons in our gaming group we had harmed or insulted in bringing a Taurox to a game
9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others (i.e. throwing the Taurox out a moving car window).
10.Continued to take personal inventory of our 40k army, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it and sold the Taurox on ebay for 20% what it cost
11.Sought through a roll of 2d6 & a chart how to improve our conscious contact with our gaming group, hoping the Taurox mistake can be forgiven.
12.Having had a gamers awakening as the result of these steps, and NEVER EVER GET ANOTHER TAUROX for my army
........ too much truth in this!
the first hate, errr, support group for taurox suffers is on release day.
Kanluwen wrote: Just because it's a rule doesn't mean that everyone should have access to it, IMO.
They already have access to it right now. This change makes legal models suddenly illegal, for no apparent reason.
Happygrunt wrote: I can't get over how dumb that is, gunslinger is a rule IN THE MAIN RULEBOOK. There is no reason they should not be able to swap for two guns.
Your problem is you're looking at it from the perspective of someone who wants to have fun, and that means you aren't playing the game the right way. GW doesn't sell any commissar models with dual pistols, so the option has to be removed. Buy your Citadel™ Fine™Cast™ Commissar™ with Power™ Sword™ and be happy that you are allowed to use such amazing Games™ Workshop™ Products™.
Kanluwen wrote: Just because it's a rule doesn't mean that everyone should have access to it, IMO.
They already have access to it right now. This change makes legal models suddenly illegal, for no apparent reason.
...And?
I had a bunch of Sergeants invalidated from the Doctrines book to the soon to be replaced Guard book, because they lost their Lasguns and only got pistols/CCWs.
It sucks, but you'll be fine.
I'm just patiently waiting on the new codex to get here and see what comes with it. We already know we're getting the Hydra kit (Which I'll be honest, I'm rather happy with how it looks), and I expect the rumor mill from the recent past regarding more tank options will be coming down the pipe in the future. We'll see.
I'm hoping for a Griffon/something else combo kit and perhaps some updated unique stuff for the less common regiments such as Mordian, Valhallan, Steel Legion and Vostroyan.
For now I'll just keep on playing the waiting game.
Kanluwen wrote: Just because it's a rule doesn't mean that everyone should have access to it, IMO.
They already have access to it right now. This change makes legal models suddenly illegal, for no apparent reason.
...And?
I had a bunch of Sergeants invalidated from the Doctrines book to the soon to be replaced Guard book, because they lost their Lasguns and only got pistols/CCWs.
It sucks, but you'll be fine.
Kanluwen wrote: I had a bunch of Sergeants invalidated from the Doctrines book to the soon to be replaced Guard book, because they lost their Lasguns and only got pistols/CCWs.
It sucks, but you'll be fine.
When did "GW did other incredibly stupid things" become a valid excuse when we're talking about one particular incredibly stupid thing?
And of course I'll be fine, because I'm done playing this game competitively and I can always say "hey, can I still use my awesome dual plasma pistol models". And their rules are pretty bad, so it's not like there's any real reason to refuse. But the lack of impact on me personally doesn't mean that it's anything other than an incredibly stupid decision made by an incompetent idiot who needs to be fired ASAP.
Yeah, I've got a Mordian Iron Guard army and I use the Lieutenant from the 2nd Edition Cadian range as my Colonel.
Mostly because I figured, if there's going to be one guy in an army that has worked out armour may be a good thing in the battlefields of the 41st Millennium, it's probably the dude in charge.
The main thing we get from this is that Commissars start out at 25, and Lord Commissars start at 65.
So Commissars are 10pts cheaper and Lord Commissars are 5pts cheaper. Wonder if they've changed the rules for them at all.
They certainly did, both are initiative 3 now. And I thought Commissars had 2 wounds. But they do get refractor fields.
Nope, wrong on both accounts. Basic Commissars were previously 1 wound and both the Commissar and Lord Commissar have previously been Ini3. The stat lines are identical to the current Commissar/Lord Commissar.
I was more talking about whether the special rules had changed or whether GW just thought Commissars were too expensive previously and lowered the pts with no change.
Peregrine wrote: Your problem is you're looking at it from the perspective of someone who wants to have fun, and that means you aren't playing the game the right way. GW doesn't sell any commissar models with dual pistols, so the option has to be removed. Buy your Citadel™ Fine™Cast™ Commissar™ with Power™ Sword™ and be happy that you are allowed to use such amazing Games™ Workshop™ Products™.
And this is why I never bother with WYSIWYG for heroes. It's not just that I have to buy a new miniature, it's that I want to play the cool looking officer I bought and painted years ago and not having to change because GW decides I'm not playing the right way.
How big do you think the taurox is? Looking at the sprue pics looks like it is about he size of a chimera. The top down shot with the storm bolter seems to line up with this. Seems small to me.
Eww. Normally once I see some proper pics of models from GW it dulls the awfulness of some sculpts. With the stormtroopers though they just look worse. The armour is way too chunky and looks very Chaosy with that trim aroun the edges. I am however impressed with the model that managed to balance that massive coat on his shoulders though...
Taurox is stupid both because it looks like a warthog and the fact that it matches nothing currently in the IG arsenal.
Also the fact that GW had the audacity to release a codex around a 5-man kit is gross. It wouldn't be so bad if the book didn't cost $60 on its own.
Wow, aren't I a bundle of joy today! Watching three seasons of An Idiot Abroad must have rubbed off on me...
Commander Cain wrote: Eww. Normally once I see some proper pics of models from GW it dulls the awfulness of some sculpts. With the stormtroopers though they just look worse. The armour is way too chunky and looks very Chaosy with that trim aroun the edges. I am however impressed with the model that managed to balance that massive coat on his shoulders though...
Taurox is stupid both because it looks like a warthog and the fact that it matches nothing currently in the IG arsenal.
Also the fact that GW had the audacity to release a codex around a 5-man kit is gross. It wouldn't be so bad if the book didn't cost $60 on its own.
Wow, aren't I a bundle of joy today! Watching three seasons of An Idiot Abroad must have rubbed off on me...
I've been equally confounded. The only thing I can come up with is they think that we'll by anything, along with 13 year old kids with too much money. I keep waiting to get excited, but instead I'm disappointed, and go back to painting other companies models...
Crud. I thought I'd picked up two boxes of STs ages ago to eventually go with my Elysians...I just checked, and they're Kasrkin. Not bad models, but VERY Cadian.
Peregrine wrote: Your problem is you're looking at it from the perspective of someone who wants to have fun, and that means you aren't playing the game the right way. GW doesn't sell any commissar models with dual pistols, so the option has to be removed. Buy your Citadel™ Fine™Cast™ Commissar™ with Power™ Sword™ and be happy that you are allowed to use such amazing Games™ Workshop™ Products™.
And this is why I never bother with WYSIWYG for heroes. It's not just that I have to buy a new miniature, it's that I want to play the cool looking officer I bought and painted years ago and not having to change because GW decides I'm not playing the right way.
M.
That is an odd stance to take. "I don't bother using a meltagun on my storm bolter captain despite always using the former and never the later because there is a chance that the combigrav gun that was just introduced might get taken away in 5 years." an obvious sarcastic example. Sure some loadouts get worse or better but it's fairly rare for one that isn't really fringe to go the way of the dodo. Dual pistols is frankly an uncommon loadout and I have a single model who uses it in over 20,000pts I own and likely the 20k that I've sold over the years... Cypher. Other than a deathwing apothecary who lost his powerfist, I can't think of a single model I've owned that needed to be changed with an edition flip. If anything, 40k and GW has been very nice in that regard as long as you ignore the obvious outliers like whole armies and units (squats, LATD, nid spore pods, etc).
BrookM wrote: Digital edition is now also on pre-order with some nice art previews:
Single-use, disposable bionics?
Single-use.
Disposable.
Bionics!?!?
"Doc, DOC! I just lost my arm!"
"Don't worry, let me install you a single-use, disposable replacement bionic arm!"
**Jams tree branch in the stump**
"Thanks Doc; I'm ready for action now!"
"For the EMPRAH!"
I think they mean it isn't a proper bionic arm (like one that would have been installed by a techpriest), but instead a temporary replacement arm that's meant to last until the wounded receives proper treatment.
It probably has limited run time or is weaker or something.
Yep. Pretty clear it's a limited-use field replacement. Like a bionic eye, or whatever. Probably not a whole arm, you'd struggle to fit that in there.
We're taking this too seriously.
Or they're taking it too lightly; even with your eye example, you think jamming some metallic ball in some bloody eye socket will suddenly allow someone to see? got to connect the nerves and everything else, which requires surgery...or are disposable bionics like a pirate's hook or a wooden toe (peg leg)?
Maybe temp bionics are just a way of stemming the flow of blood and stopping the wounded person from going into shock?
Miguelsan wrote: And this is why I never bother with WYSIWYG for heroes. It's not just that I have to buy a new miniature, it's that I want to play the cool looking officer I bought and painted years ago and not having to change because GW decides I'm not playing the right way.
Whereas I take the opposite view: It's a chance to make a cool new model.
That's why I like the Deathwatch RPG so much. I can basically go kit-bash happy and make whatever I want. Last week I made a Howling Griffon Marine with a Jump Pack and two Grav Pistols. Why? 'Cause I can!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Maybe temp bionics are just a way of stemming the flow of blood and stopping the wounded person from going into shock?
Miguelsan wrote: And this is why I never bother with WYSIWYG for heroes. It's not just that I have to buy a new miniature, it's that I want to play the cool looking officer I bought and painted years ago and not having to change because GW decides I'm not playing the right way.
Whereas I take the opposite view: It's a chance to make a cool new model.
That's why I like the Deathwatch RPG so much. I can basically go kit-bash happy and make whatever I want. Last week I made a Howling Griffon Marine with a Jump Pack and two Grav Pistols. Why? 'Cause I can!
BrookM wrote: Digital edition is now also on pre-order with some nice art previews:
Single-use, disposable bionics?
Single-use.
Disposable.
Bionics!?!?
"Doc, DOC! I just lost my arm!"
"Don't worry, let me install you a single-use, disposable replacement bionic arm!"
**Jams tree branch in the stump**
"Thanks Doc; I'm ready for action now!"
"For the EMPRAH!"
I think they mean it isn't a proper bionic arm (like one that would have been installed by a techpriest), but instead a temporary replacement arm that's meant to last until the wounded receives proper treatment.
It probably has limited run time or is weaker or something.
Yep. Pretty clear it's a limited-use field replacement. Like a bionic eye, or whatever. Probably not a whole arm, you'd struggle to fit that in there.
We're taking this too seriously.
Or they're taking it too lightly; even with your eye example, you think jamming some metallic ball in some bloody eye socket will suddenly allow someone to see? got to connect the nerves and everything else, which requires surgery...or are disposable bionics like a pirate's hook or a wooden toe (peg leg)?
Well back in the 2ed fluff that's pretty much how bionic implants were installed.
The tech marine would have a few bionic limbs handy for when a marine got a leg or arm blown off. The Apothecary would then clean up the wound and pretty much just jam the bionic on the stump.
I'm not saying that this is plausible or good, but I'm pretty sure it was established in the 40k fluff a long time ago.
If I can find where I read this in my old books I'll properly source it.
BrookM wrote: Digital edition is now also on pre-order with some nice art previews:
Single-use, disposable bionics?
Single-use.
Disposable.
Bionics!?!?
"Doc, DOC! I just lost my arm!"
"Don't worry, let me install you a single-use, disposable replacement bionic arm!"
**Jams tree branch in the stump**
"Thanks Doc; I'm ready for action now!"
"For the EMPRAH!"
I think they mean it isn't a proper bionic arm (like one that would have been installed by a techpriest), but instead a temporary replacement arm that's meant to last until the wounded receives proper treatment.
It probably has limited run time or is weaker or something.
Yep. Pretty clear it's a limited-use field replacement. Like a bionic eye, or whatever. Probably not a whole arm, you'd struggle to fit that in there.
We're taking this too seriously.
Or they're taking it too lightly; even with your eye example, you think jamming some metallic ball in some bloody eye socket will suddenly allow someone to see? got to connect the nerves and everything else, which requires surgery...or are disposable bionics like a pirate's hook or a wooden toe (peg leg)?
So first they steal the Ork's vehicle aesthetic and now they think they can just hone in on how Painboy's operate?
From what I have seen your arguments generally boil down to 'if you don't like it don't buy it' and you then ignore anyone giving reasons why they might want to comment on something even though they don't buy it.
jonolikespie wrote: From what I have seen your arguments generally boil down to 'if you don't like it don't buy it' and you then ignore anyone giving reasons why they might want to comment on something even though they don't buy it.
It's getting annoying.
Its also annoying to see people go "ïts not that simple", when in fact it is.
Are people addicted to this? Is there some dark entity forcing people to buy this? I dont understand, why anyone in their right mind would purchase something, or dedicate a huge portion of their time, to something they not happy with, then blame someone else for it.
It really is as simple, as not buying it if you arent happy with it.
jonolikespie wrote: From what I have seen your arguments generally boil down to 'if you don't like it don't buy it' and you then ignore anyone giving reasons why they might want to comment on something even though they don't buy it.
It's getting annoying.
Its also annoying to see people go "ïts not that simple", when in fact it is.
Are people addicted to this? Is there some dark entity forcing people to buy this? I dont understand, why anyone in their right mind would purchase something, or dedicate a huge portion of their time, to something they not happy with, then blame someone else for it.
It really is as simple, as not buying it if you arent happy with it.
If it is so simple, why are you on a forum?
.
If it's "buy-it-or-leave-it" to you, there seems to be little purpose to visiting (and creating an account for) a website, which has (almost) no other purpose but to exchange opinions and thoughts about wargaming products.
Swastakowey wrote: I have it easy at work lately. When it gets busy I wont be on here. Dont worry im probably temporary.
But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"
I mean seriously. Thats stupid.
The need to express one's opinion about a piece of plastic isn't anymore stupid than your need to express your opinion about people expressing their opinion about a piece of plastic.
But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"
I mean seriously. Thats stupid.
Wrong.
There's been many cases of units entries being included in another codex that comes out later, that are little more than, "See Codex: XYZ for the stats/abilities/details". Except Codex: XYZ is a $50 2 unit codex. So I can't get full functionality of the codex I actually want without coughing up even more money.
If everything was in one book then I might agree with you, but it's not. It's interlaced through several products that aren't worth purchasing for the money they're asking.
I've been in on the Storm Troopers since the 2nd Ed WD article giving hints for fielding them as a platoon/ army.
That was a WD article though. I am not paying £30 to have the rules to field them as an army, especially as I have this week's White Dwarf. I was going to advance order a couple of squads but I haven't even done that because I want to see the new full IG Codex first.
I will probably end up buying some Scions but only two boxes for a squad rather than more for an army.
At £21 for 5 IG figures I am finding them resistable. If they had been a 10 man box at £25, I would have had the beginnings of a new army by now.
As a die hard IG collector, GW should have been looking to hoover up my cash but the company's approach and pricing at the moment are preventing that.
But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"
I mean seriously. Thats stupid.
Wrong.
There's been many cases of units entries being included in another codex that comes out later, that are little more than, "See Codex: XYZ for the stats/abilities/details". Except Codex: XYZ is a $50 2 unit codex. So I can't get full functionality of the codex I actually want without coughing up even more money.
If everything was in one book then I might agree with you, but it's not. It's interlaced through several products that aren't worth purchasing for the money they're asking.
Which book does that though? Only supplements do. But its pretty clear that supplements, well supplement the codex. just like the codex supplements the rule book.
I've been in on the Storm Troopers since the 2nd Ed WD article giving hints for fielding them as a platoon/ army.
That was a WD article though. I am not paying £30 to have the rules to field them as an army, especially as I have this week's White Dwarf. I was going to advance order a couple of squads but I haven't even done that because I want to see the new full IG Codex first.
I will probably end up buying some Scions but only two boxes for a squad rather than more for an army.
At £21 for 5 IG figures I am finding them resistable. If they had been a 10 man box at £25, I would have had the beginnings of a new army by now.
As a die hard IG collector, GW should have been looking to hoover up my cash but the company's approach and pricing at the moment are preventing that.
I agree. One squad is all thats worth getting. Especially with the white dwarf rules available.
But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"
I mean seriously. Thats stupid.
Wrong.
There's been many cases of units entries being included in another codex that comes out later, that are little more than, "See Codex: XYZ for the stats/abilities/details". Except Codex: XYZ is a $50 2 unit codex. So I can't get full functionality of the codex I actually want without coughing up even more money.
If everything was in one book then I might agree with you, but it's not. It's interlaced through several products that aren't worth purchasing for the money they're asking.
Can you give an example of another time a codex has had a unit entry that says "See Codex: X for details"? I don't think it's ever happened before at all, let alone "many cases". Unless you're talking about supplements... which would be stupid, because they're supplements.
Swastakowey wrote: I have it easy at work lately. When it gets busy I wont be on here. Dont worry im probably temporary.
But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"
I mean seriously. Thats stupid.
Nobody is stupid enough to think they're actually being forced to do anything, when people talk about GW making us do something, it's saying they're making us do it to continue playing with up to date rules (which is how I think the majority of people play).
Sure, we can keep playing with old editions, but trying to organise a game is significantly harder if you don't just play the most up to date rules.
It's hardly stupid, as you say, to feel like you are being strongly compelled to buy something when you look at the reality of 40k gaming for most people.
Yep. I made a mistake. Supplements do that, basic Codexs do not. The caveat is "Do not so far." It will be very interesting to see if this changes in the new Imperial Guard codex.
However, it's far from stupid to want the a complete listing with no "See Codex XYZ" in bull ****, especially if you pay $50 for the thing. If you don't want it replacing the old codex, don't give the new codex all the options and just leave them out so it's different. If you think having less is fine, then you're well trained consumers.
Moopy wrote: However, it's far from stupid to want the a complete listing with no "See Codex XYZ" in bull ****, especially if you $50 for the thing. If you don't want it replacing the old codex, don't give the new codex all the options and just leave them out so it's different. If you think having less is fine, then you're well trained consumers.
I doubt GW are going to do that with this codex. I wouldn't put it past them, but I seriously doubt it. Even the IK codex copy/pasted the rules for super heavies and D weapons.
I doubt we'll see "see codex XYZ for blah" on anything BUT a supplemental codex any time soon.
Moopy wrote: Yep. I made a mistake. Supplements do that, basic Codexs do not. The caveat is "Do not so far." It will be very interesting to see if this changes in the new Imperial Guard codex.
However, it's far from stupid to want the a complete listing with no "See Codex XYZ" in bull ****, especially if you pay $50 for the thing. If you don't want it replacing the old codex, don't give the new codex all the options and just leave them out so it's different. If you think having less is fine, then you're well trained consumers.
Totally fair, I agree with you. I don't think the Codex Supplements have been good value so far, and I wouldn't buy one, unless they did one for a sub-faction I was totally crazy about (can't really think of any examples...). It'd be a new, horrible development if this started to bleed through into the books billed as Codexes now (particularly the core ones we've had for decades, like IG).
Moopy wrote: Yep. I made a mistake. Supplements do that, basic Codexs do not. The caveat is "Do not so far." It will be very interesting to see if this changes in the new Imperial Guard codex.
However, it's far from stupid to want the a complete listing with no "See Codex XYZ" in bull ****, especially if you pay $50 for the thing. If you don't want it replacing the old codex, don't give the new codex all the options and just leave them out so it's different. If you think having less is fine, then you're well trained consumers.
Totally fair, I agree with you. I don't think the Codex Supplements have been good value so far, and I wouldn't buy one, unless they did one for a sub-faction I was totally crazy about (can't really think of any examples...). It'd be a new, horrible development if this started to bleed through into the books billed as Codexes now (particularly the core ones we've had for decades, like IG).
Agreed. Not good for value unless you really want it.
But its not like its a bad thing they are releasing stuff like this though. Models wise its kind of like imperial Guard part 1. Which is really cool. And who knows, some one out there may have been waiting for an opportunity like this and is excited about it. To that person they might love it and pick one up.
Not for me though. Standard codex (well, real faction codices...) are all I will get for now. And im sure many people feel the same way.
It's definitely murkier than that, and I do think it could get worse before long because GW smell money - but that said, as it stands right now I can't say I personally have a huge problem with it or that it has affected me. I'm 100% the filthy casual though. I definitely see why it's a bigger problem for others.
Except it's not good when they do things like this and I'm priced out of the hobby that I've been in 1988. I'm certain that there are many others in my shoes.
That makes me furious. Not that I can't buy plastic soldiers, but that things that could have been shipped together are not. Instead they're being split into smaller and smaller and smaller pieces that you have to buy piecemeal. It means my limited funds get me even less every financial quarter that ticks by. The current marine codex is huge, so there's zero reason that these new sub-guard couldn't be part of the main IG codex, even if it meant raising the cost just a little to to accommodate the bigger size.
I'm going to go out on a limb and make a prediction: IG will be able to take Knights, and that's the first time we'll see a codex point to a supplement. I dearly hope it's not true, but that would be profitable and that's all that really matters now. Actually, I'm wrong and right now that I think about it. They're already doing it because they're covering themselves by saying "Imperial factions can take Knights". So they don't even need to put an entry into the codex because you'll need two books defacto.
Swastakowey wrote: But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"
I mean seriously. Thats stupid.
Wrong.
There's been many cases of units entries being included in another codex that comes out later, that are little more than, "See Codex: XYZ for the stats/abilities/details". Except Codex: XYZ is a $50 2 unit codex. So I can't get full functionality of the codex I actually want without coughing up even more money.
If everything was in one book then I might agree with you, but it's not. It's interlaced through several products that aren't worth purchasing for the money they're asking.
Can you give an example of another time a codex has had a unit entry that says "See Codex: X for details"? I don't think it's ever happened before at all, let alone "many cases". Unless you're talking about supplements... which would be stupid, because they're supplements.
The old Codex Armageddon had "See Codex: X" unit entries but I suppose that was technically a supplement, too.
Moopy wrote: Except it's not good when they do things like this and I'm priced out of the hobby that I've been in 1988. I'm certain that there are many others in my shoes.
That makes me furious. Not that I can't buy plastic soldiers, but that things that could have been shipped together are not. Instead they're being split into smaller and smaller and smaller pieces that you have to buy piecemeal. It means my limited funds get me even less every financial quarter that ticks by. The current marine codex is huge, so there's zero reason that these new sub-guard couldn't be part of it, even if it meant raising the guard codex just a little to to accommodate the bigger size.
I'm going to go out on a limb and make a prediction: IG will be able to take Knights, and that's the first time we'll see a codex point to a supplement. I dearly hope it's not true, but that would be profitable and that's all that really matters now.
If they do this. I will come back here and apologize. I mean seriously that would be oh so annoying.
It is the trend now to stretch things out more than they should. I mean movies are starting to be done in parts. Songs are sold individually (I think) and so on. I think GW is just following this trend.
But heaps of people must be loving it if they continue on the way they are.
Moopy wrote: I'm going to go out on a limb and make a prediction: IG will be able to take Knights, and that's the first time we'll see a codex point to a supplement. I dearly hope it's not true, but that would be profitable and that's all that really matters now. Actually, I'm wrong and right now that I think about it. They're already doing it because they're covering themselves by saying "Imperial factions can take Knights". So they don't even need to put an entry into the codex because you'll need two books defacto.
Honestly I'm not that bothered if that happens - Knights are new, and they're also kind of crap in game terms. It's not the same as taking stuff *out* of the codex and monetizing it separately.
Swastakowey wrote: But heaps of people must be loving it if they continue on the way they are.
Not necessarily. GW seems to be perfectly happy if introducing another $50 book gets one person to buy it, and one person to quit the game in frustration. The immediate sales keep their next financial report from being a disaster, while the long-term lost sales from the people who quit are an issue for someone else to deal with later.
Swastakowey wrote: But heaps of people must be loving it if they continue on the way they are.
Not necessarily. GW seems to be perfectly happy if introducing another $50 book gets one person to buy it, and one person to quit the game in frustration. The immediate sales keep their next financial report from being a disaster, while the long-term lost sales from the people who quit are an issue for someone else to deal with later.
It's interesting that you read that as "Lots of customers must love this if GW are still doing it". Maybe that is what he meant but I read it more as "If GW continue on this self-destructive path their competitors will love it". Guess it could really be taken either way
But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"
I mean seriously. Thats stupid.
Wrong.
There's been many cases of units entries being included in another codex that comes out later, that are little more than, "See Codex: XYZ for the stats/abilities/details". Except Codex: XYZ is a $50 2 unit codex. So I can't get full functionality of the codex I actually want without coughing up even more money.
If everything was in one book then I might agree with you, but it's not. It's interlaced through several products that aren't worth purchasing for the money they're asking.
Can you give an example of another time a codex has had a unit entry that says "See Codex: X for details"? I don't think it's ever happened before at all, let alone "many cases". Unless you're talking about supplements... which would be stupid, because they're supplements.
All of the 3rd ed marine dexes and Armageddon referred you to the Space Marine Ork or Guard codex
But I get, ill stop. Its just a pain when people say things like "GW is making me pay for this?"
I mean seriously. Thats stupid.
Wrong.
There's been many cases of units entries being included in another codex that comes out later, that are little more than, "See Codex: XYZ for the stats/abilities/details". Except Codex: XYZ is a $50 2 unit codex. So I can't get full functionality of the codex I actually want without coughing up even more money.
If everything was in one book then I might agree with you, but it's not. It's interlaced through several products that aren't worth purchasing for the money they're asking.
Can you give an example of another time a codex has had a unit entry that says "See Codex: X for details"? I don't think it's ever happened before at all, let alone "many cases". Unless you're talking about supplements... which would be stupid, because they're supplements.
All of the 3rd ed marine dexes and Armageddon referred you to the Space Marine Ork or Guard codex
Yeah, I know it's going to sound silly but I'm not talking about those - as I understand it they were priced appropriately, they were supplements in everything but name. The modern equivalent are the codex supplements.
Bull0 wrote: ... they were supplements in everything but name.
Just like the Knight and Stormy books are supplements in everything but name (and price).
Well, yes and no. You could theoretically use the Knight and Stormy books standalone (we aren't even really sure what's in the Stormy book yet, it does feel rather as though we're burying it before it's dead). I take the point, though.
And I doubt you can make a legal 1850 point army with just the LotD Codex and its basically one unit.
And even if you can, you will autolose after round 1 before you field anything of your army
I did say theoretically. It's pretty clear LoTD, IK, Inq, and others are intended to be taken as plug-ins for other armies. I don't really know why they're calling them Codexes rather than Supplements. I suspect they sell better. Do we need to get in to this whole thing again, it's pretty played out at this point
I dont mind "codexes" with few units.
They create lots of flexibility in armybuilding and add a great narrative element to battles that were hard to do rulewise not even a year ago.
Had they done a separate "imperial flyers" codex instead of death from the skies, my SW would have been very happy.
Obviously GW is trying out some brave new ways of releasing new rules and new models. I say everybody has a great oppurtunity to boycott certain releasea to let gw know they are in the wrong direction.
I don't mind it, just overpriced, i don't like this "Codex lite" before the main IG drop though, i feel like it cheats the kids a little.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I don't mind it, just overpriced, i don't like this "Codex lite" before the main IG drop though, i feel like it cheats the kids a little.
Kroothawk wrote: And I doubt you can make a legal 1850 point army with just the LotD Codex and its basically one unit.
And even if you can, you will autolose after round 1 before you field anything of your army
Just demand they play your special LotD missions or they are a WAAC jerk! Or something.... f'n goobs.
Jadenim wrote: Anyone else noticed that Kasrkin have disappeared?
autoquote from two days ago :
Ravajaxe wrote: And poof goes the V3 stormtroopers and V4 kasrkins (by Juan Diaz) on GW website. Dear Kasrkins, you will be missed.
For my kasrkin, I regret now not having bought a special weapons blister to have a pair number of plasma & melta. I used Kasrkin as veteran squad with carapace, I will have to switch them to scion equivalent. But there is still ebay, so no big deal.
Ditto; annoyingly I have three of each special weapon for my Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, but the WD rules only allow two per squad.
What really kills me with this is that, yes GW, you've made a shiny new kit, which is very cool, but what the hell is wrong with having OPTIONS! It's boring as hell to have every army, particularly one as diverse as the Imperial Guard is supposed to be, with exactly the same damn models.
Earlier, when Hydra picture dropped, here we were discussing and guessing which of Basilisk or Griffon, or even Salamander would be the second option in the new heavy support kit.
Myself going for a modernization of the basilisk.
Now we have an answer, and guess who was right ?
Ha ha !
Well no one. It will be a completely new artillery, not even seen in Epic 40k
The Wyvern.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
The Wyvern is on the next cover of the White Dwarf #10
Wyvern Support Battery-Heavy Choice and can take 3 in total.
Comes with a Stormshard Mortar 48" S4 AP6 heavy 2, barrage, blast, ignores cover, shred
Armour Value is the same as a Chimera and it costs 10 points less than a Griffon
The model has a chimera hull and looks a lot like Hydra, but with two large short barrels instead of the Hydra's long Autocannons.
It is a dual kit: Astra Militarum Hydra/ Astra Militarum Wyvern
Ravajaxe wrote: (Ground)breaking news, from Faeit 212, right now.
Earlier, when Hydra picture dropped, here we were discussing and guessing which of Basilisk or Griffon, or even Salamander would be the second option in the new heavy support kit.
Myself going for a modernization of the basilisk.
Now we have an answer, and guess who was right ?
Ha ha !
Well no one. It will be a completely new artillery, not even seen in Epic 40k
The Wyvern.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
The Wyvern is on the next cover of the White Dwarf #10
Wyvern Support Battery-Heavy Choice and can take 3 in total.
Comes with a Stormshard Mortar 48" S4 AP6 heavy 2, barrage, blast, ignores cover, shred
Armour Value is the same as a Chimera and it costs 10 points less than a Griffon
The model has a chimera hull and looks a lot like Hydra, but with two large short barrels instead of the Hydra's long Autocannons.
It is a dual kit: Astra Militarum Hydra/ Astra Militarum Wyvern
So shred means it wounds on a 2+ right? The ap is trash but I can see it doing a ton of wounds.
Ravajaxe wrote: (Ground)breaking news, from Faeit 212, right now.
Earlier, when Hydra picture dropped, here we were discussing and guessing which of Basilisk or Griffon, or even Salamander would be the second option in the new heavy support kit.
Myself going for a modernization of the basilisk.
Now we have an answer, and guess who was right ?
Ha ha !
Well no one. It will be a completely new artillery, not even seen in Epic 40k
The Wyvern.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
The Wyvern is on the next cover of the White Dwarf #10
Wyvern Support Battery-Heavy Choice and can take 3 in total.
Comes with a Stormshard Mortar 48" S4 AP6 heavy 2, barrage, blast, ignores cover, shred
Armour Value is the same as a Chimera and it costs 10 points less than a Griffon
The model has a chimera hull and looks a lot like Hydra, but with two large short barrels instead of the Hydra's long Autocannons.
It is a dual kit: Astra Militarum Hydra/ Astra Militarum Wyvern
What a load of irredeemable crap. Its like a Mortar HWS, only even worse. Hopefully the Hydra sucks less.
I hope to hell that the Stormies, the ugly-gryns and the Hydra/Wyvern are all we're getting.
Ravajaxe wrote: (Ground)breaking news, from Faeit 212, right now.
Earlier, when Hydra picture dropped, here we were discussing and guessing which of Basilisk or Griffon, or even Salamander would be the second option in the new heavy support kit.
Myself going for a modernization of the basilisk.
Now we have an answer, and guess who was right ?
Ha ha !
Well no one. It will be a completely new artillery, not even seen in Epic 40k
The Wyvern.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
The Wyvern is on the next cover of the White Dwarf #10
Wyvern Support Battery-Heavy Choice and can take 3 in total.
Comes with a Stormshard Mortar 48" S4 AP6 heavy 2, barrage, blast, ignores cover, shred
Armour Value is the same as a Chimera and it costs 10 points less than a Griffon
The model has a chimera hull and looks a lot like Hydra, but with two large short barrels instead of the Hydra's long Autocannons.
It is a dual kit: Astra Militarum Hydra/ Astra Militarum Wyvern
So shred means it wounds on a 2+ right? The ap is trash but I can see it doing a ton of wounds.
No it means re-rolls to wound, so that means its maybe slightly better than a 3 Mortar HWS.
Wyvern Support Battery-Heavy Choice and can take 3 in total.
Comes with a Stormshard Mortar 48" S4 AP6 heavy 2, barrage, blast, ignores cover, shred
Armour Value is the same as a Chimera and it costs 10 points less than a Griffon
Ooh, ooh, ooh! I'll take three! No, wait... sounds like complete arse...
This really puts the fear into me that other IG vehicles will have gotten the nerfbat, if this is meant to be the new hotness.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: It doesn't sound too horrible rules wise. Shred and Ignore cover will punish light infantry like boyz and gaunts.
S6 AP4 pie plate with re-rolls to hit on the Griffon is frankly better, even if there was a need for that kind of light anti-infantry unit. (Hint: there isn't)
CthuluIsSpy wrote: It doesn't sound too horrible rules wise. Shred and Ignore cover will punish light infantry like boyz and gaunts.
Unless they spread a little their miniatures. Against small blasts, you don't even need a full 2" spacing to avoid a torrent of hits.
Why this, when we have access to the humble mortar squad ?
I like mortars personally, I'm hoping they will not nerf them by moving the heavy weapons squads from troops platoons, to a heavy support selection.
When we see such horrible ideas (Taurox, Wyvern rules) anything is possible !
CthuluIsSpy wrote: It doesn't sound too horrible rules wise. Shred and Ignore cover will punish light infantry like boyz and gaunts.
S6 AP4 pie plate with re-rolls to hit on the Griffon is frankly better, even if there was a need for that kind of light anti-infantry unit. (Hint: there isn't)
Yeah, that is better. What's the range on it though?
So far you are making it very difficult and I may end up not buying any of the new models...
The Wyvern is highly redundant. Lets see what we already have that covers this:
- Mortar Heavy weapon teams that score
- Hellhounds that are going to do more damage and are more accurate
- Collosus that can kill marines and light vehicles
- Lasguns with the fire on my target order
- Special weapon teams/platoon command squads with 3 or 4 flamers jumping out of chimeras or vendettas
I am not going to waste a heavy support slot with some Wyverns.
Hmm so I notic that the "Militarum Tempestus"
Get their own section in the army list at GW site ?? they are a army by they now right now ..with TWO modells ..a hole section for TWO modells ...
I know the knights get their own section ..but they are not a part of any other army so it make a bit more seens
I find it really confusing that Imperial guard elite units do not include the new"stormtroopers" aka Militarum Tempestus
I find it really confusing that Imperial guard elite units do not include the new"stormtroopers" aka Militarum Tempestus WHY ?!
I'm completely sick of people spreading this assumption like it's an established fact. Yeah, they haven't added them to the IG bit of the site yet - they also haven't renamed the section Astra Militarum, but they will. Means nothing
Sorry for the idea of "it will rack up a ton of wounds". I said that thinking that shred wounded on a +2 ( what I get for not having a rule book in front of me). Its a joke now why did they create this?
BrookM wrote: Unless, of course, the other artillery tanks (that lack a kit), are removed, the Wyvern is quite a joke.
A second joke would be to move every other heavy support tanks that do not have a plastic model to a new dataslate ® : Astra Militarum ® artillery ! Oh and nerf the Manticore, because it is obviously too good, while his kit counterpart needs some overhaul.
So why not a Deathstrike throwing a strength : D large blast ?
BrookM wrote: Unless, of course, the other artillery tanks (that lack a kit), are removed, the Wyvern is quite a joke.
A second joke would be to move every other heavy support tanks that do not have a plastic model to a new dataslate ® : Astra Militarum ® artillery ! Oh and nerf the Manticore, because it is obviously too good, while his kit counterpart needs some overhaul.
So why not a Deathstrike throwing a strength : D large blast ?
We need to have a conversation about the word "joke"
I use mortars..and the only thing I see of the Wyvern is that it got armour and no leadership, so it would need 3 glancing or a single good penetrating hit to get it killed.
"From Faeit 2012 New looks like some more goodies. Things from IA:1 goodness?
This week we are getting confirmations that the Astra Militarum (Imperial Guard) are getting their new codex with a new Hydra Flakk Tank dual box set that includes the new Wyvern artillery. The one thing missing here are leaked Ogryns that we have seen and talked so much about, and I can assume that these are coming the week after.
Please remember that these are rumored still, as there has been no official release information out.
via Dex in Alaska on Faeit 212
Pre-Orders April 5th, Released April 12th
Astra Militarum Hydra/ Astra Militarum Wyvern $56
Codex: Astra Militarum $49.50
104 Pages, New Warlord Traits, background, “Along with a number of units never seen in the army before” “including rules for tank commanders and tempestus Scions platoons”
Codex: Astra Militarum Limited Edition $100 (online only)
Astra Militarum Cadian Armoured Fist $60 (11 models)- chimera +10guardsmen
Astra Militarum Orders: $6 (10 cards)
Horus Heresy Book III: Extermination $116 (online only)"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Zengu wrote: "From Faeit 2012 New looks like some more goodies. Things from IA:1 goodness?
This week we are getting confirmations that the Astra Militarum (Imperial Guard) are getting their new codex with a new Hydra Flakk Tank dual box set that includes the new Wyvern artillery. The one thing missing here are leaked Ogryns that we have seen and talked so much about, and I can assume that these are coming the week after.
Please remember that these are rumored still, as there has been no official release information out.
via Dex in Alaska on Faeit 212
Pre-Orders April 5th, Released April 12th
Astra Militarum Hydra/ Astra Militarum Wyvern $56
Codex: Astra Militarum $49.50
104 Pages, New Warlord Traits, background, “Along with a number of units never seen in the army before” “including rules for tank commanders and tempestus Scions platoons”
Codex: Astra Militarum Limited Edition $100 (online only)
Astra Militarum Cadian Armoured Fist $60 (11 models)- chimera +10guardsmen
Astra Militarum Orders: $6 (10 cards)
I'm curious if the limited edition codex will follow the utterly useless GW mould (stupid $50 dust jacket) or the useful one done by FW (the Istvaan 3 LE). Obviously the former is much more likely. Every time I see one of those up on the swap shop or bartertown I cross my fingers that the person selling gets no more than $5-10 over the cost of the normal codex.
It might be somewhere in between the two, like the Imperial Knight Limited Edition was with art prints.
Also it's worth noting that previously, "limited editions" for Forge World were just that if you ordered quick enough you got a signed book with no price difference.
The Istvaan LE is seemingly them dipping their toes into the LE marketplace.
I think that seals the deal that the Colossus (and Penal Guard) are goners.
Um... why exactly?
No kit usually means the unit is a goner. Especially if other companies make models for them. I was holding out the slim hope the Hydra or Basi would be packaged with the Colossus, but the Wyvern overlaps enough (except for AP) that it tells me it will replace Colossus. You have Basilisks to kill Marines, and Wyverns for light infantry, no real niche for the Colossus except to deny 3+ a cover save....
12/10/10 48" S4 AP6 heavy 2, barrage, blast, ignores cover, shred. Oh wow sweet! That's so awesome. Just what I wanted. This is going to see so much play wow.
Up next, Codex: Gunslinger! Now we can use dual wielding plasma pistol characters again!
I wonder if you can take a tank as your warlord and how that works with warlord traits.
As for the Wyvern, why does GW insist on having so many multiple blast weapons and such bad multiple blast rules? Not in terms of effectiveness, just that they take so bloody long to resolve each salvo. I don't want to make six separate rolls and fiddle about placing a template for each one just to see how many hits I aren't going to be converting into casualties in the end anyway.
Claimh_Solais wrote: Hmm so I notic that the "Militarum Tempestus"
Get their own section in the army list at GW site ?? they are a army by they now right now ..with TWO modells ..a hole section for TWO modells ...
I know the knights get their own section ..but they are not a part of any other army so it make a bit more seens
I find it really confusing that Imperial guard elite units do not include the new"stormtroopers" aka Militarum Tempestus
WHY ?!
Its because adding "codex" seems to justify charging full amount on something that should be no more then $20.
Paradigm wrote: As much as HQ Russes would be awesome, I imagine (although I hope I'm wrong) it refers to Pask-type characters, who command tanks.
I think tank-HQs are pretty much the realm of the ABG list.
So?
I'm not saying it's not possible, and I would actually love it if you really could take HQ Russes, but I don't think GW would want to compromise FW sales by essentially making ABG (a primary selling point of IA) an in-codex feature.
Assuming these are true, I'm glad Scion rules are in the codex.
Why do people think they won't be? Do you have to buy Codex: Space Marines to field Rhinos or Land Raiders in Dark Angels or Grey Knights?
Because there has been talk of the rules not being included, and also because I wouldn't put it past GW to try and sell us 2 £30 books rather than 1.
Blacksails wrote: Anyone want to take bets on the point cost of the Wyvern?
5 internetz says 100pts.
Its apparently going for 65pts.
Wow, that's...not completely awful.
Just mostly awful.
Units of 3 for 195pts, and assuming each template hits 3 guys is 18hits, 13 wounds or 4 dead marines a turn. All in all pretty situational and geared for killing orks and nids really.
Paradigm wrote: As much as HQ Russes would be awesome, I imagine (although I hope I'm wrong) it refers to Pask-type characters, who command tanks.
I think tank-HQs are pretty much the realm of the ABG list.
So?
I'm not saying it's not possible, and I would actually love it if you really could take HQ Russes, but I don't think GW would want to compromise FW sales by essentially making ABG (a primary selling point of IA) an in-codex feature.
I think that calling the ABG army list a "primary selling point of IA" is a little much.
Assuming these are true, I'm glad Scion rules are in the codex.
Why do people think they won't be? Do you have to buy Codex: Space Marines to field Rhinos or Land Raiders in Dark Angels or Grey Knights?
Because there has been talk of the rules not being included, and also because I wouldn't put it past GW to try and sell us 2 £30 books rather than 1.
Were you forced to buy Codex: Space Marines to field Rhinos, Predators, Vindicators, or Land Raiders for Codex: Chaos Space Marines or Dark Angels?
That "talk" mostly centers around the fact that the Scions are not currently in the "Elites" section of the Imperial Guard webstore.
It also ignores that the WD with the rules for the Scions specifically talks about how "First rank fire! Second rank fire!' enables Tempestus Scions to get an extra shot from their hot-shot lasguns. While that contradicts what is in Codex: Imperial Guard right now, in the very near future Astra Militarum Officers will be able to do just that." and that Tempestor Primes are going to have "six Militarum Tempestus Orders that can be used exclusively by Tempestor Primes within a Militarum Tempestus Detachment. " and that the Taurox Prime "takes vehicle upgrades from the Astra Militarum vehicle equipment list".
warboss wrote: Every time I see one of those up on the swap shop or bartertown I cross my fingers that the person selling gets no more than $5-10 over the cost of the normal codex.
Paradigm wrote: As much as HQ Russes would be awesome, I imagine (although I hope I'm wrong) it refers to Pask-type characters, who command tanks.
I think tank-HQs are pretty much the realm of the ABG list.
So?
I'm not saying it's not possible, and I would actually love it if you really could take HQ Russes, but I don't think GW would want to compromise FW sales by essentially making ABG (a primary selling point of IA) an in-codex feature.
I think that calling the ABG army list a "primary selling point of IA" is a little much.
Assuming these are true, I'm glad Scion rules are in the codex.
Why do people think they won't be? Do you have to buy Codex: Space Marines to field Rhinos or Land Raiders in Dark Angels or Grey Knights?
Because there has been talk of the rules not being included, and also because I wouldn't put it past GW to try and sell us 2 £30 books rather than 1.
Were you forced to buy Codex: Space Marines to field Rhinos, Predators, Vindicators, or Land Raiders for Codex: Chaos Space Marines or Dark Angels?
That "talk" mostly centers around the fact that the Scions are not currently in the "Elites" section of the Imperial Guard webstore.
Like I said, I didn't expect it, but on the other hand, at this point, I really wouldn't be surprised if GW decided to just put 'see Codex: Militarium Tempestus' and force us to buy 2 books.
Wyvern isn't bad. It's not a really good unit, but it's also not bad.
2 of them are 10 points under a hellhound, and 20 under an erradicator. Both of those hit with 6/4 ignore cover at s6. The 4small blasts can keep up when shooting xenos/geq.
2 of them are 30 under a collosus, or 3 of them are 35 over a collosus. The wyverns will out perform the collosus against t3 geq & xenos while the collosus will do better against meq.
I still prefer the griffon. Barrage is usually good enough to avoid walls, and I prefer rerolls to hit over rerolls to wound.
You have to assume a competent opponent who uses the available spacing and will be greater than an inch away from each model. That greatly reduces the effectiveness of the Wyvern compared to the (torrent) flamer template, or large blast variants available to the Guard.
via Dex in Alaska on Faeit 212
"Take Aim": Gives the ordered unit Precision Shot
"Smite At Will": Gives the ordered unit Split Fire
"First Rank Second Rank": Ordered unit gains an additional attack with lasguns and hot-shot lasguns
"Forwards for the Emperor" After shooting, ordered unit must run even if they can't normally
"Move, Move, Move" Ordered unit must run, roll dice and use the highest.
"Suppressive Fire" Ordered unit's weapons have the pinning rule
Hmm. I'm on the fence about legitimacy of these orders, but I'm loving the sound of them.
We could have to roll to see which orders we get, or ones like "Take Aim" or "Forwards for the Emperor" could be character exclusive, or they could be purchaseable. Interesting.
schadenfreude wrote: Wyvern isn't bad. It's not a really good unit, but it's also not bad.
2 of them are 10 points under a hellhound, and 20 under an erradicator. Both of those hit with 6/4 ignore cover at s6. The 4small blasts can keep up when shooting xenos/geq.
2 of them are 30 under a collosus, or 3 of them are 35 over a collosus. The wyverns will out perform the collosus against t3 geq & xenos while the collosus will do better against meq.
I still prefer the griffon. Barrage is usually good enough to avoid walls, and I prefer rerolls to hit over rerolls to wound.
Your math leaves much to be desired. Two Wyverns at 65 points a piece is 130 points. Thats the same price as one hellhound (which is the better buy being a FAST vehicle at S6 AP4 Torrent) and only 10 points less than the colossus (which is also a better buy at S6 AP 3 Large Blast, Ordnance).
Owing to people not giving small blast the spacing necessary for multiple wounds (thank you 2" coherency), Large Blast will be far more effective at getting hits, with the higher strength/ap better chances of having wounds that stick.
The Wyvern, like the Taurox, fill a role that is already filled, and will receive a model when we've been screaming for years we want official griffon/medusa/colossus kits, not just the extra-pricey FW models.
schadenfreude wrote: Wyvern isn't bad. It's not a really good unit, but it's also not bad.
2 of them are 10 points under a hellhound, and 20 under an erradicator. Both of those hit with 6/4 ignore cover at s6. The 4small blasts can keep up when shooting xenos/geq.
2 of them are 30 under a collosus, or 3 of them are 35 over a collosus. The wyverns will out perform the collosus against t3 geq & xenos while the collosus will do better against meq.
I still prefer the griffon. Barrage is usually good enough to avoid walls, and I prefer rerolls to hit over rerolls to wound.
Two of them ( 2x 65 =130) equal the Hellhound and are 30 under an Eradicator, but i'm afraid it's only S4/AP6, not the other way around.
A Colossus is is 140, so two Wyverns are 10 less, not 30, while three of them are 55 more than a Colossus. I doubt the Wyvern will outperform any of the current artillery tanks.
Suppressing Fire and Take Aim sound somewhat usefull. Fire at will though......if something is in range of base guardsmen, you should be getting it dead dead, not looking to split flashlight fire.
I'm not seeing "Fire on my Target" or "Bring it Down" though....and I would be very upset to lose those orders. Those two orders have helped my guardsmen out too much to consider losing them, and gaining the Taurox, Wyvern, and Scions a fair trade. Hell, even the hot shot volley gun is pretty gak, unless you are in the habit of having your stormtroopers sitting back in a static gunline.
We know there are either 9 or 10 orders, thanks to the card pack being 10 cards.
Fire on my Target, Bring it Down, and Get Back in the fight could still be around.
kir44n wrote: Suppressing Fire and Take Aim sound somewhat usefull. Fire at will though......if something is in range of base guardsmen, you should be getting it dead dead, not looking to split flashlight fire.
I'm not seeing "Fire on my Target" or "Bring it Down" though....and I would be very upset to lose those orders. Those two orders have helped my guardsmen out too much to consider losing them, and gaining the Taurox, Wyvern, and Scions a fair trade. Hell, even the hot shot volley gun is pretty gak, unless you are in the habit of having your stormtroopers sitting back in a static gunline.
Split fire to the unit means one model can shoot at a different target, say letting that lascannon shoot at the tank while the rest of the men take lasgun potshots at something up to 24" away?
kir44n wrote: Suppressing Fire and Take Aim sound somewhat usefull. Fire at will though......if something is in range of base guardsmen, you should be getting it dead dead, not looking to split flashlight fire.
I'm not seeing "Fire on my Target" or "Bring it Down" though....and I would be very upset to lose those orders. Those two orders have helped my guardsmen out too much to consider losing them, and gaining the Taurox, Wyvern, and Scions a fair trade. Hell, even the hot shot volley gun is pretty gak, unless you are in the habit of having your stormtroopers sitting back in a static gunline.
Well, there's a rumor that we're going to see "Heavy Weapons Platoons" so Fire At Will might be for that, not just Lasguns.
You have to assume a competent opponent who uses the available spacing and will be greater than an inch away from each model. That greatly reduces the effectiveness of the Wyvern compared to the (torrent) flamer template, or large blast variants available to the Guard.
The same logic indicates thudd guns and tfc are of no use. Max 2" coherency also greatly reduces damage from templates and large pie. Small pie is 3" so the 2nd and following shots can always catch 2 models.
I noticed earlier that kasrkin have also been removed from the mainsite along with the generic storm troopers, weather this means a finecast re-release (unlikely imo seeing as finecast appears to be phasing out) or theyre going to be removed and retconned into scions or veterans with carapace armour is anyones guess. Just thought i'd point it out.
You have to assume a competent opponent who uses the available spacing and will be greater than an inch away from each model. That greatly reduces the effectiveness of the Wyvern compared to the (torrent) flamer template, or large blast variants available to the Guard.
The same logic indicates thudd guns and tfc are of no use. Max 2" coherency also greatly reduces damage from templates and large pie. Small pie is 3" so the 2nd and following shots can always catch 2 models.
Thudd guns have double the shots and cost less though. They also take up a far less valuable FOC slot, and have shell shock
kir44n wrote: Suppressing Fire and Take Aim sound somewhat usefull. Fire at will though......if something is in range of base guardsmen, you should be getting it dead dead, not looking to split flashlight fire.
I'm not seeing "Fire on my Target" or "Bring it Down" though....and I would be very upset to lose those orders. Those two orders have helped my guardsmen out too much to consider losing them, and gaining the Taurox, Wyvern, and Scions a fair trade. Hell, even the hot shot volley gun is pretty gak, unless you are in the habit of having your stormtroopers sitting back in a static gunline.
Well, there's a rumor that we're going to see "Heavy Weapons Platoons" so Fire At Will might be for that, not just Lasguns.
While an interesting idea on the Heavy Weapons Platoons, I can't see it effectively happening. Heavy Weapons Squads are rare enough as it is when they can be scoring. Making them non-scoring,AND having then compete for the same Heavy slots as tanks and artillery would be utterly asinine. I'm not saying it couldn't happen.....but it would be just another reason to continue playing with my 5th edition dex instead of 6th. Some of the rumors for 6th guard up to this point really are rather......pathetic.
Having seen the all-around pics....taken as a whole, I still think it looks like arse. However, I like enough of the design elements that I'll probably keep an eye-out for a cheapo deal for a salvage job off ebay that I can convert into a civilian vehicle to use as terrain in INQ28 games.
Bobug wrote: I noticed earlier that kasrkin have also been removed from the mainsite along with the generic storm troopers, weather this means a finecast re-release (unlikely imo seeing as finecast appears to be phasing out) or theyre going to be removed and retconned into scions or veterans with carapace armour is anyones guess. Just thought i'd point it out.
You have to assume a competent opponent who uses the available spacing and will be greater than an inch away from each model. That greatly reduces the effectiveness of the Wyvern compared to the (torrent) flamer template, or large blast variants available to the Guard.
The same logic indicates thudd guns and tfc are of no use. Max 2" coherency also greatly reduces damage from templates and large pie. Small pie is 3" so the 2nd and following shots can always catch 2 models.
Thudd guns have double the shots and cost less though. They also take up a far less valuable FOC slot, and have shell shock
FW atrillery is far superior to all standard gw tanks, and thudds got moved to hs. My point still stands on small pie,
Also on a previous comment I had a brain fart and was thinking manticore price in place of a col, and hellhounds almost always clock in 10 points above stock price
schadenfreude wrote: Wyvern isn't bad. It's not a really good unit, but it's also not bad.
2 of them are 10 points under a hellhound, and 20 under an erradicator. Both of those hit with 6/4 ignore cover at s6. The 4small blasts can keep up when shooting xenos/geq.
2 of them are 30 under a collosus, or 3 of them are 35 over a collosus. The wyverns will out perform the collosus against t3 geq & xenos while the collosus will do better against meq.
I still prefer the griffon. Barrage is usually good enough to avoid walls, and I prefer rerolls to hit over rerolls to wound.
Two of them ( 2x 65 =130) equal the Hellhound and are 30 under an Eradicator, but i'm afraid it's only S4/AP6, not the other way around.
A Colossus is is 140, so two Wyverns are 10 less, not 30, while three of them are 55 more than a Colossus. I doubt the Wyvern will outperform any of the current artillery tanks.
If those options remain in the codex, you are right, it makes little sense. Given that GW has fallen into the habit of removing entries from their books that do not have a model, it could mean the Wyvern is taking the place of those variants, effective or not. By the by, is the Basilisk a direct-only still?
We could have to roll to see which orders we get, or ones like "Take Aim" or "Forwards for the Emperor" could be character exclusive, or they could be purchaseable.
The trend does seem to be for this stuff to be random this edition. Which would be totally rubbish for this but I still think they'd probably do it. "Oh, this Lieutenant only knows how to tell his men to do suppressing fire this game, but last game he knew how to tell them to fire and advance. Because of reasons, yeah. Selective amnesia or something, I guess"
The most sensible system would be some variation on the current book's, where there's a pool of orders for junior officers and another for senior officers.
FW atrillery is far superior to all standard gw tanks, and thudds got moved to hs. My point still stands on small pie,
Thudd guns are also more durable, have more shots, and are cheaper, as well as having better AP.
TFC fill a role not well covered in the marine book and has built in versatility to be effective against a wide variety of units.
The Wyvern has none of these things. It does something everything else in the book does, but worse, in a slot heavily contested with better, more versatile options.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Given that GW has fallen into the habit of removing entries from their books that do not have a model, it could mean the Wyvern is taking the place of those variants, effective or not. By the by, is the Basilisk a direct-only still?
The Griffon and Colossus both have models already.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Given that GW has fallen into the habit of removing entries from their books that do not have a model, it could mean the Wyvern is taking the place of those variants, effective or not. By the by, is the Basilisk a direct-only still?
The Griffon and Colossus both have models already.
Colossus does not have a model. You are thinking of the Bombard.
via Dex in Alaska on Faeit 212
"Take Aim": Gives the ordered unit Precision Shot
"Smite At Will": Gives the ordered unit Split Fire
"First Rank Second Rank": Ordered unit gains an additional attack with lasguns and hot-shot lasguns
"Forwards for the Emperor" After shooting, ordered unit must run even if they can't normally
"Move, Move, Move" Ordered unit must run, roll dice and use the highest.
"Suppressive Fire" Ordered unit's weapons have the pinning rule
Hmm. I'm on the fence about legitimacy of these orders, but I'm loving the sound of them.
We could have to roll to see which orders we get, or ones like "Take Aim" or "Forwards for the Emperor" could be character exclusive, or they could be purchasable. Interesting.
Emphasis on some because reputedly there's more.
Oh yeah !
I have been underwhelmed by most of the new stuff, but these orders sound really fun and sufficiently powerful to be tactically interesting.
"Smite at will" could remove any reluctance to include lascannons in basic squads, if you could gain a reliable way to fire antitank at their target while doing something of your laser guns.
"Take Aim" and "Forwards for the Emperor" seem too huge to be true, so they may be limited to the commander.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Well given that we're getting cards, maybe there's a "Primaris" order, and then you roll for other orders.
That sounds awful.
Since I doubt we're getting a Guard specific Psyker school, they probably just wanted a way to make that extra $6 that would normally go to a Psyker specific thing.
"Take Aim": Gives the ordered unit Precision Shot
TLLC sabers can be even more scary
"Smite At Will": Gives the ordered unit Split Fire
Good news for LC hidden in a platoon and melta guns
"First Rank Second Rank": Ordered unit gains an additional attack with lasguns and hot-shot lasguns
Stormtroopers really need this. 10 of them are now a very beefy unit.
"Forwards for the Emperor" After shooting, ordered unit must run even if they can't normally
The name is ironic because most of the time the run will be away from the unit that was shot. Also RAW guardsmen can pick up an earthshaker carriage and run with it. Who needs a trojan lolz.
"Move, Move, Move" Ordered unit must run, roll dice and use the highest.
Great bread and butter order.
If the other rumor that all commisars now have the 6" ld bubble & cost 5 guardsmen orders can easily be passed
"Suppressive Fire" Ordered unit's weapons have the pinning rule
If PBS and weaken resolver are still in this order will be awesome.
warboss wrote: Every time I see one of those up on the swap shop or bartertown I cross my fingers that the person selling gets no more than $5-10 over the cost of the normal codex.
Seems kind of needlessly bitter.
Agreed...but if people didn't instantly scoop up overpriced crap LEs (a significant portion going to people with little interest other than to resell at even more ridiculous prices) then GW might come out with ones that actually give you $50 worth of stuff.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Given that GW has fallen into the habit of removing entries from their books that do not have a model, it could mean the Wyvern is taking the place of those variants, effective or not. By the by, is the Basilisk a direct-only still?
The Griffon and Colossus both have models already.
Colossus does not have a model. You are thinking of the Bombard.
The bombard and colossus are the same thing it just modelled on a leman russ chassis but it still has the chimera statline.
warboss wrote: Every time I see one of those up on the swap shop or bartertown I cross my fingers that the person selling gets no more than $5-10 over the cost of the normal codex.
Seems kind of needlessly bitter.
Agreed...but if people didn't instantly scoop up overpriced crap LEs (a significant portion going to people with little interest other than to resell at even more ridiculous prices) then GW might come out with ones that actually give you $50 worth of stuff.
New orders sound ok but as previously mentioned the reall useful ones were always Bring it Down, Get back in the Fight and Fire on my Order I'd really miss those..
Nice to start seeing some actual rumours (for actual Guard) finally too.
streetsamurai wrote: I think it was written somewhere that the MT codex orders would be different form the ones in AM.
Not necessarily "different", but there are specifically mentioned "6 unique orders in the Militarum Tempestus Codex which can only be used by Tempestor Primes in a Militarum Tempestus detachment".
And, where the beeeep are the plastic comissar squad rumoured by 40k radio ?
They might not be happening? Who knows at this point.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RandyMcStab wrote: New orders sound ok but as previously mentioned the reall useful ones were always Bring it Down, Get back in the Fight and Fire on my Order I'd really miss those..
So far, most of the Orders we've had described were Junior Officer orders...
Kanluwen wrote: Colossus does not have a model. You are thinking of the Bombard.
Nope. IA1 changes the Bombard to the Colossus Bombard, with the exact same rules as the codex one. The Leman Russ hull is purely an aesthetic difference.
H.B.M.C. wrote: By that argument why did they make a plastic Hydra?
Because the current Hydra suffers from major casting problems and is long overdue for replacement. The barrels are always badly warped, and the entire gun section has all of its straight lines turned into a wavy mess.
Also, the post you quoted was in response to the idea of removing the Griffon and Colossus because they "don't have a model", not a suggestion that the Griffon or Colossus might get new models.
Kanluwen wrote: Colossus does not have a model. You are thinking of the Bombard.
Nope. IA1 changes the Bombard to the Colossus Bombard, with the exact same rules as the codex one. The Leman Russ hull is purely an aesthetic difference.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Well given that we're getting cards, maybe there's a "Primaris" order, and then you roll for other orders.
That sounds awful.
God I hope that isn't true. I hope the are reference cards. I am PRAYING they are reference cards.
schadenfreude wrote:
"Forwards for the Emperor" After shooting, ordered unit must run even if they can't normally
The name is ironic because most of the time the run will be away from the unit that was shot. Also RAW guardsmen can pick up an earthshaker carriage and run with it. Who needs a trojan lolz.
"Hup hup hup hup!"
"Suppressive Fire" Ordered unit's weapons have the pinning rule
If PBS and weaken resolver are still in this order will be awesome.
I really hope the PBS gets to stay. I am thinking they might do well in the Taurox, as mobility is an issue while lack of fire points isn't.
Also, with the stats for the Wyrvn, I am HOPING that someone got the stats wrong and it has a large blast. Would go a long way to fixing it.
I am also hoping that it doesn't make the griffin, or any other artillery variant, go away.
More so when there is things like the eradicator that is S6 ap3 ignores cover.
The Eradicator is only AP4, it's the Colossus that's AP3.
But yeah, Wyvern sounds terrible. It's only redeeming feature seems to be that a unit of 3 will add 9 HP your opponent has to deal with. So next to an IK, some Leman Russes, some Chimeras and some other Artillery, the Wyvern squadron will probably be ignored.
As I expected, I'm starting to get disappointed. I hope they make kits for the artillery tanks and haven't nerfed the hell out of all our tanks.
Peregrine wrote: The Griffon and Colossus both have models already.
By that argument why did they make a plastic Hydra?
The decision to make a completely unknown tank may seem absurd, but I think it shows how GW relates with its subsidiary society Forgeworld, now. Years ago, GW studio copied some successful kits from FW, effectively "stealing" a part of their commercial line. Examples such as Piranha, Valkyrie, Trygon come to my mind. In fact, I have not seen recent examples. It seems plausible that they have found a gentlemen's agreement, and GW no longer takes models away from FW line.
On the other hand, Hydra being one of the oldest Forgeworld kits, it may have warranted an exception. A kit which shared many parts with now OOP Manticore. Both outdated kits with not so sharp detail (among other issues). It has taken GW two years, after 5th ed. codex to release the Manticore kit, but now it is part of the regular IG armoury. Here comes the turn of its " brother " model. Notice that Manticore box, so as Hydra box, now have both exclusive secondary counterparts, nowhere to be found in FW "Imperial armour" line : Deathstrike and Wyvern.
We will see soon if this separation removes "FW tanks" from Astra Militarum codex. It would not surprise me.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: But yeah, Wyvern sounds terrible. It's only redeeming feature seems to be that a unit of 3 will add 9 HP your opponent has to deal with. So next to an IK, some Leman Russes, some Chimeras and some other Artillery, the Wyvern squadron will probably be ignored.
Don't you mean that it adds 9 HP your opponent doesn't have to deal with? Unless you're planning on using them as ablative armour for your other, better tanks, of course.
It's small pie gun is not ordinance so it can fire both the main gun and a heavy bolter.
Given it's humble price tag I don't think it deserves as much flakk as it's receiving. Overall I think the rules for it are written well, and it's a well balanced unit. That being said I don't think it will be seen often because HS a very competitive force org slot that many IG players have already over filled with more tanks than they can field in 3 force org slots.
Overall I'm going to say it was a good idea because it's really just a couple of tiny bits added to a hydra kit, and people are going to buy hydra kits so they can build hydras.
Happygrunt wrote: The nice part would be they are still in the IA:1 book. So might be able to still take them, but would need an expansion.
I certainly hope this isn't the case though.
Of course the funny part will be coming against those TFG's who refuse to play against Forge World even though the Griffon uses the same rules that were in the Guard Codex up until a week before the game.
schadenfreude wrote: Given it's humble price tag I don't think it deserves as much flakk as it's receiving. Overall I think the rules for it are written well, and it's a well balanced unit. That being said I don't think it will be seen often because HS a very competitive force org slot that many IG players have already over filled with more tanks than they can field in 3 force org slots.
Three things:
1. We don't know how 'well' the rules are written yet, as none of us have seen them. It could be a badly worded contradictory entry. 2. It's a slightly better Mortar. I don't recall a Guard commander ever saying "Damn. I wish I had more Mortars, and I realy wish they took up Heavy Support slots!". 3. Points are not the great leveller. Wouldn't matter how cheap something was if it wasn't useful and/or competed for slots with something more useful. This thing appears to do both, so the unit is dead on arrival (from what we know of the rules).
schadenfreude wrote: Overall I'm going to say it was a good idea because it's really just a couple of tiny bits added to a hydra kit, and people are going to buy hydra kits so they can build hydras.
And they could've put in a three piece modular barrel. One piece = Medusa (large barrel), two piece = Griffon (medium barrel), three piece = Basilisk (long barrel). That would have solved so many issues.
. There will probably be supplements for days on all the different 
