What does the wyvern look like?

 krazynadechukr wrote:
What does the wyvern look like?

Wyverns are usually dragon like creatures without the forelegs. Assuming your typical Dragon has 4 legs and wings. Technically Smaug in The Hobbit is a Wyvern.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
The nice part would be they are still in the IA:1 book. So might be able to still take them, but would need an expansion.

I certainly hope this isn't the case though.

Of course the funny part will be coming against those TFG's who refuse to play against Forge World even though the Griffon uses the same rules that were in the Guard Codex up until a week before the game.

Then those people are not worth spending time playing against.

I don't get the hate for rumored wyvern. It seems super fun to use, and it ignores cover, so no 2+ cover save shenanigans.

Also, perhaps each one of the wyverns guns is 2 shots. So perhaps it has 4 shots total.

Heafstaag wrote:
I don't get the hate for rumored wyvern. It seems super fun to use, and it ignores cover, so no 2+ cover save shenanigans.

Also, perhaps each one of the wyverns guns is 2 shots. So perhaps it has 4 shots total.

It fills a role that doesn't need filling, while leaving other units that need a model out in the cold.

The "Shoot and Run for it" order is not new, Al'Reham's order "Like the Wind" is that exact same thing. I used it quite a lot in 5th edition to get giant power blobs D6" closer for a charge. I hope the special characters still get fancy orders, but I also hope they are not part of the 10 order cards as I want a good variety or orders....we'll see.

 alarmingrick wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:
I don't get the hate for rumored wyvern. It seems super fun to use, and it ignores cover, so no 2+ cover save shenanigans.

Also, perhaps each one of the wyverns guns is 2 shots. So perhaps it has 4 shots total.

It fills a role that doesn't need filling, while leaving other units that need a model out in the cold.

While that's true, I for one love options, which is what the Wyvern gives: another option.

I seem to remember there being a rumor for another plastic kit, a 5th, as so far we have scions, taurox, ogryns, and hydra/wyvern. Perhaps the 5th kit, if it exists, will be the currently missing artillery kits. I know I for one would absolutely love a plastic colossus kit.

Heafstaag wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:
I don't get the hate for rumored wyvern. It seems super fun to use, and it ignores cover, so no 2+ cover save shenanigans.

Also, perhaps each one of the wyverns guns is 2 shots. So perhaps it has 4 shots total.

It fills a role that doesn't need filling, while leaving other units that need a model out in the cold.

While that's true, I for one love options, which is what the Wyvern gives: another option.

I seem to remember there being a rumor for another plastic kit, a 5th, as so far we have scions, taurox, ogryns, and hydra/wyvern. Perhaps the 5th kit, if it exists, will be the currently missing artillery kits. I know I for one would absolutely love a plastic colossus kit.

I love options too. Viable options.....

Edit:
Oh, and welcome to Dakka!

 portugus wrote:
The "Shoot and Run for it" order is not new, Al'Reham's order "Like the Wind" is that exact same thing. I used it quite a lot in 5th edition to get giant power blobs D6" closer for a charge. I hope the special characters still get fancy orders only they have but I also hope they are not part of the 10 order cards as I want a good variety or orders....we'll see.

I really just want "Bring it down", "Fire on my target" and "Get back in the fight" to return. Those orders were the bread and butter orders I gave to my IG, even more often than FRFSRF.

And that is a good point. Wonder what Al'Reham gets for losing his signature order.

 alarmingrick wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:
I don't get the hate for rumored wyvern. It seems super fun to use, and it ignores cover, so no 2+ cover save shenanigans.

Also, perhaps each one of the wyverns guns is 2 shots. So perhaps it has 4 shots total.

It fills a role that doesn't need filling, while leaving other units that need a model out in the cold.

While that's true, I for one love options, which is what the Wyvern gives: another option.

I seem to remember there being a rumor for another plastic kit, a 5th, as so far we have scions, taurox, ogryns, and hydra/wyvern. Perhaps the 5th kit, if it exists, will be the currently missing artillery kits. I know I for one would absolutely love a plastic colossus kit.

I love options too. Viable options.....

Edit:
Oh, and welcome to Dakka!

Thanks for the welcome!

I may just be a sucker for things I consider 'cool' at the expense of competitiveness, but I don't see how it isn't viable option depending on what your list looks like. Perhaps the rest of your list is more geared for taking out tanks and mcs, and you need a little a bit of anti-horde...seems like the Wyvern would be a fairly cheap and fairly durable option to add some anti-horde to an army.

 Happygrunt wrote:
And that is a good point. Wonder what Al'Reham gets for losing his signature order.

He gets the extra special new rule called "Removed from the Codex". I hear it's all the rage these days.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
And that is a good point. Wonder what Al'Reham gets for losing his signature order.

He gets the extra special new rule called "Removed from the Codex". I hear it's all the rage these days.

Every time I think I'm getting bitter, you set the bar that little bit higher.

 Blacksails wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
And that is a good point. Wonder what Al'Reham gets for losing his signature order.

He gets the extra special new rule called "Removed from the Codex". I hear it's all the rage these days.

Every time I think I'm getting bitter, you set the bar that little bit higher.

I'd agree with the sentiment....if only Games-Workshop didn't try their damnedest to make us as bitter as possible.

 Blacksails wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
And that is a good point. Wonder what Al'Reham gets for losing his signature order.

He gets the extra special new rule called "Removed from the Codex". I hear it's all the rage these days.

Every time I think I'm getting bitter, you set the bar that little bit higher.

The real killer is his bitterness strikes home. He says what I think, though with far more ambivalence and Australianism than I.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Australianism

Awesome.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
And that is a good point. Wonder what Al'Reham gets for losing his signature order.

He gets the extra special new rule called "Removed from the Codex". I hear it's all the rage these days.

!

Do we have conformation of this because I thought GW had not removed a character from a 6th ed book (and in some cases had added old ones back)?

Nids lost some characters, didn't they?

 Blacksails wrote:
Nids lost some characters, didn't they?

They did, but they didn't have models. Only IG characters who didn't have models that I can think of was Nork (who got a new one in the Ogryn box), Chenkov (Who probably won't leave as long as conscripts are an option) and Bastonne (who will probably go, but was really just a better than average sergeant).

 Blacksails wrote:
Nids lost some characters, didn't they?

Doom of Malantai, Parasite of Mordrax, anything without a model. The Guard character have models, but they're metal or finecast exclusively. If they're seriously about tossing metal completely, all we'll have is Tactical Genius, Kell, Yarrick. Even the Commissars are metal still, save the Lord.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Nids lost some characters, didn't they?

They did, but they didn't have models. Only IG characters who didn't have models that I can think of was Nork (who got a new one in the Ogryn box), Chenkov (Who probably won't leave as long as conscripts are an option) and Bastonne (who will probably go, but was really just a better than average sergeant).

That's fair, I hope the characters stay with reasonable rules.

Also, Mordian character. Maybe. Hopefully. Probably not though. A man can dream.

 Happygrunt wrote:
They did, but they didn't have models. Only IG characters who didn't have models that I can think of was Nork (who got a new one in the Ogryn box), Chenkov (Who probably won't leave as long as conscripts are an option) and Bastonne (who will probably go, but was really just a better than average sergeant).

Well if GW are winding down their FineCost production, character models will go the way of the dodo. Moreover, as IG has so many metal characters, oddities like Alrahem and Chenkov (who does - or at least did - have a model) will vanish quicker. And then they vanish from the Codex.

But look, at the end of the day we don't really no yet. It's just speculation based upon GW's current track record of Everything™ Must™ Have™ A™ Citadel™ Miniature™ Kit™. We'll know in a week or so, but I'd suggest against holding your breath for these things.

 MajorStoffer wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Nids lost some characters, didn't they?

Doom of Malantai, Parasite of Mordrax, anything without a model. The Guard character have models, but they're metal or finecast exclusively. If they're seriously about tossing metal completely, all we'll have is Tactical Genius, Kell, Yarrick. Even the Commissars are metal still, save the Lord.

On a side note, I think it is funny you can buy the "Hero of Armageddon" in Commissar Yarrick but you can't buy any of the rank in file in the Steel Legion.

I didn't think Yarrick was working with the Cadians or Catachans now.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Nids lost some characters, didn't they?

Doom of Malantai, Parasite of Mordrax, anything without a model. The Guard character have models, but they're metal or finecast exclusively. If they're seriously about tossing metal completely, all we'll have is Tactical Genius, Kell, Yarrick. Even the Commissars are metal still, save the Lord.

On a side note, I think it is funny you can buy the "Hero of Armageddon" in Commissar Yarrick but you can't buy any of the rank in file in the Steel Legion.

I didn't think Yarrick was working with the Cadians or Catachans now.

Steel Legion are still available under Troops in IG, for now. As are the other old metal variants.

However, as GW hasn't used a single photo of non-Cadian/Catachan IG in any publication since the main rule book, I can't imagine they'll be around long. Even the "Armageddon Steel Legion" Formation uses studio Cadians, but with studio-painted Chimeras with the old Armageddon camo scheme.

The real funny part about all that is that after they're canned, you'll probably see Death Korps repainted in Steel Legion colours, when once upon a time the Death Korps were to be represented with Steel Legion models!

 MajorStoffer wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Nids lost some characters, didn't they?

Doom of Malantai, Parasite of Mordrax, anything without a model. The Guard character have models, but they're metal or finecast exclusively. If they're seriously about tossing metal completely, all we'll have is Tactical Genius, Kell, Yarrick. Even the Commissars are metal still, save the Lord.

On a side note, I think it is funny you can buy the "Hero of Armageddon" in Commissar Yarrick but you can't buy any of the rank in file in the Steel Legion.

I didn't think Yarrick was working with the Cadians or Catachans now.

Steel Legion are still available under Troops in IG, for now. As are the other old metal variants.

However, as GW hasn't used a single photo of non-Cadian/Catachan IG in any publication since the main rule book, I can't imagine they'll be around long. Even the "Armageddon Steel Legion" Formation uses studio Cadians, but with studio-painted Chimeras with the old Armageddon camo scheme.

The real funny part about all that is that after they're canned, you'll probably see Death Korps repainted in Steel Legion colours, when once upon a time the Death Korps were to be represented with Steel Legion models!

Everything seems to have come full circle.

 MajorStoffer wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Nids lost some characters, didn't they?

Doom of Malantai, Parasite of Mordrax, anything without a model. The Guard character have models, but they're metal or finecast exclusively. If they're seriously about tossing metal completely, all we'll have is Tactical Genius, Kell, Yarrick. Even the Commissars are metal still, save the Lord.

On a side note, I think it is funny you can buy the "Hero of Armageddon" in Commissar Yarrick but you can't buy any of the rank in file in the Steel Legion.

I didn't think Yarrick was working with the Cadians or Catachans now.

Steel Legion are still available under Troops in IG, for now. As are the other old metal variants.

However, as GW hasn't used a single photo of non-Cadian/Catachan IG in any publication since the main rule book, I can't imagine they'll be around long. Even the "Armageddon Steel Legion" Formation uses studio Cadians, but with studio-painted Chimeras with the old Armageddon camo scheme.

The real funny part about all that is that after they're canned, you'll probably see Death Korps repainted in Steel Legion colours, when once upon a time the Death Korps were to be represented with Steel Legion models!

If worst comes to worst you can do like I have. Buy the Cadian poster boys then go buy some neo-reigh head from max-mini (think that's right) and bam you have steel legion look a likes that also look like gas masked Germans in WWII.

I believe I heard something about the Heavy Weapons Squads getting a new weapon option. Can anyone verify this?

 Commisar Krieglust wrote:
I believe I heard something about the Heavy Weapons Squads getting a new weapon option. Can anyone verify this?

Nope. And what would they get? There really isn't any man portable heavy weapons left.

Also, welcome to Dakka. Don't forget, you are here forever.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Commisar Krieglust wrote:
I believe I heard something about the Heavy Weapons Squads getting a new weapon option. Can anyone verify this?

Nope. And what would they get? There really isn't any man portable heavy weapons left.

Also, welcome to Dakka. Don't forget, you are here forever.

Well...

There are heavy stubbers and plasma cannons. I don't think HWT can take those.

No but I got a few guesses:
Wyvern mortars upgrade?
Heavy Grav cannons?
Hot-Shot Volley gun? - (I think something like this)
Multi-Laser?
The Space marine 2 shot grenade launcher?

Who wants to bet?

Multi laser would be cool too.

Ah then the multi-laser is out :p can't have cool upgrades can we.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Commisar Krieglust wrote:
I believe I heard something about the Heavy Weapons Squads getting a new weapon option. Can anyone verify this?

Nope. And what would they get? There really isn't any man portable heavy weapons left.

Also, welcome to Dakka. Don't forget, you are here forever.

Well...

There are heavy stubbers and plasma cannons. I don't think HWT can take those.

Heavy stubber has already been show by the CSM book to be a one man gun and Plasma Cannons would be unlikely. Plus, GW JUST re-released the HWT, which would not have any new guns.

 portugus wrote:
Ah then the multi-laser is out :p can't have cool upgrades can we.

just think it would be cool to have a weapon that goes with your main rifle. They all run on batteries so IN THEORY you could share a lot of the ammo and so on.

So, does anyone think that missile launchers are going to get flak missiles? As a man of missile spam, the opportunity...enthralls me...

General Hobbs wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
What does the wyvern look like?

Wyverns are usually dragon like creatures without the forelegs. Assuming your typical Dragon has 4 legs and wings. Technically Smaug in The Hobbit is a Wyvern.

A Heavy Stubber or Multi-Laser team would be pretty sweet.

Also in those White Dwarf rules posted some time ago for the Tempestus units, it said the command squad could take a medi-pack for only 15 points. I don't suppose this may also mean that CCS and PCS can take them for 15 as well. If so then maybe people will warm up to them a bit more. I certainly like the idea of having medics in my army, but 30 points is so off putting.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 portugus wrote:
Ah then the multi-laser is out :p can't have cool upgrades can we.

just think it would be cool to have a weapon that goes with your main rifle. They all run on batteries so IN THEORY you could share a lot of the ammo and so on.

No, you can't.

Multi-lasers can't just be "loaded" with lasgun ammo. Same goes with Lascannons.

They require a complex regulating system for the charge so that it doesn't overheat and explode.

 Smitty wrote:
So, does anyone think that missile launchers are going to get flak missiles? As a man of missile spam, the opportunity...enthralls me...

I don't see why not, I think most infantry missile launchers can be upgraded to take them in most codices, and I can't imagine them neglecting the IG's missile launchers.

Heavy Weapons teams with Plasma Cannons would be amusing, and more useful than plasma guns. A single gets hot has a decent chance to kill your guardsman. But on a HWT, you'd only lose 1 wound, so you could fail more Plasma Cannon failures.

But, like how others have pointed out, I don't think they would have made the plastic HWT's available already if they were adding new weapon options.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 portugus wrote:
Ah then the multi-laser is out :p can't have cool upgrades can we.

just think it would be cool to have a weapon that goes with your main rifle. They all run on batteries so IN THEORY you could share a lot of the ammo and so on.

No, you can't.

Multi-lasers can't just be "loaded" with lasgun ammo. Same goes with Lascannons.

They require a complex regulating system for the charge so that it doesn't overheat and explode.

My multilasers in my army use a chain of lasgun packs.

The best thing about the IG. Nothing is absolute. My army has compatible battery packs for its weapons if I want them to. Just like my lasguns are bolt action if I want them to be.

 Sir Bubbles wrote:
A Heavy Stubber or Multi-Laser team would be pretty sweet.

Also in those White Dwarf rules posted some time ago for the Tempestus units, it said the command squad could take a medi-pack for only 15 points. I don't suppose this may also mean that CCS and PCS can take them for 15 as well. If so then maybe people will warm up to them a bit more. I certainly like the idea of having medics in my army, but 30 points is so off putting.

If they go to 5 points (as it is listed in my digital copy of WD) then I am definitely adding them to my CCS. Not the most competitive option, but I like the idea of a medic being present to make sure the CO survives the fight.

And I run plasma guns a lot, so FNP saves would be rad.

Yeah giving up a special weapon slot for FNP on a T3 model is still not the best option but at least it moves it into the realm of "I might actually buy that" for a CCS that sits back with a standard near HWTs.

Some other rumor from a while back I just remember was about the tech priest becoming elites. Could that still happen? More importantly is there anyway they could be good. I love the idea of the tech priest but you know its a waste of points at their current level.

That new artillery piece...(LOL!) Wow, what were they thinking?
GW design team member #1: Hey, I think think the IG...
#2. Astra Militarum...or something.
#1. Sorry, er...AM, I think the AM needs another artillery piece.
#2. Great! Maybe something that can keep them up with the over powered army lists already out there.
#1. Exactly. I was thinking that it can ignore cover.
#2. Fantastic. That would go a long way to keep them in the running.
#1. And its a small blast radius.
#2. Small? Oh, Ok, so it's really powerful then? Like a small blast but ST 9, AP 1 or something?
#1. Um, no. Not exactly. I was thinking, heavy support, small blast, low strength. Sounds awesome, right?
#2. You lost me.
#1. It'll be awesome. Trust me. It'll be as awesome as Mutilators!
(#1runs off to go tell the corporate suits the good news. #2 questions his life.)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
The nice part would be they are still in the IA:1 book. So might be able to still take them, but would need an expansion.

I certainly hope this isn't the case though.

Of course the funny part will be coming against those TFG's who refuse to play against Forge World even though the Griffon uses the same rules that were in the Guard Codex up until a week before the game.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Given it's humble price tag I don't think it deserves as much flakk as it's receiving. Overall I think the rules for it are written well, and it's a well balanced unit. That being said I don't think it will be seen often because HS a very competitive force org slot that many IG players have already over filled with more tanks than they can field in 3 force org slots.

Three things:

1. We don't know how 'well' the rules are written yet, as none of us have seen them. It could be a badly worded contradictory entry.
2. It's a slightly better Mortar. I don't recall a Guard commander ever saying "Damn. I wish I had more Mortars, and I realy wish they took up Heavy Support slots!".
3. Points are not the great leveller. Wouldn't matter how cheap something was if it wasn't useful and/or competed for slots with something more useful. This thing appears to do both, so the unit is dead on arrival (from what we know of the rules).

 schadenfreude wrote:
Overall I'm going to say it was a good idea because it's really just a couple of tiny bits added to a hydra kit, and people are going to buy hydra kits so they can build hydras.

And they could've put in a three piece modular barrel. One piece = Medusa (large barrel), two piece = Griffon (medium barrel), three piece = Basilisk (long barrel). That would have solved so many issues.

It would be rather easy to make a 4 model modular kit for the Medusa, Colossus, Griffon, and Basilisk with minimal waste of plastic, packaging, and excessive mold making. Those barrels scream out that they can be modular. It would on the other hand waste a ton of plastic to also include the Hydra.

Points are always the great leveler. If Wyverns were to cost 30 points each in the current rules as we know them then a squad of 3 would out dakka a necron annihilation barge and it would be a common sight for IG players to include 9 of them. Tau Eldar and SM players would scream bloody murder that 30 points is criminally under priced.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Points are always the great leveler. If Wyverns were to cost 30 points each in the current rules as we know them then a squad of 3 would out dakka a necron annihilation barge and it would be a common sight for IG players to include 9 of them. Tau Eldar and SM players would scream bloody murder that 30 points is criminally under priced.

No they're not. Some things are worth more than the sum of their parters, others less. Some things are so bad (and compete with other better things) that making them cheaper doesn't help. On the flip side, some things are so overpowered or scale so badly that how expensive you make them isn't an issue.


On a totally unrelated note, where's that quote in your sig from?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Points are always the great leveler. If Wyverns were to cost 30 points each in the current rules as we know them then a squad of 3 would out dakka a necron annihilation barge and it would be a common sight for IG players to include 9 of them. Tau Eldar and SM players would scream bloody murder that 30 points is criminally under priced.

No they're not. Some things are worth more than the sum of their parters, others less. Some things are so bad (and compete with other better things) that making them cheaper doesn't help. On the flip side, some things are so overpowered or scale so badly that how expensive you make them isn't an issue.


On a totally unrelated note, where's that quote in your sig from?

Littlefinger from game of thrones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRS8a8HjqFs


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the design process of the Wyvern was initially a modeling inspiration of adding 4 mortars to a hydra chassis to make a non forge world version of a thudd gun. Because plastic would be so minimal it was probably easy to get the green light for the Wyvern. My best guess is that an early playtest versions came with 2 stormshard mortars because 4 barrels usually means 4 shots, but then during playtesting somone thought it was too good and they nerfed it's firepower down to 2 shots.

If it had a TL stormshard or a piar of stormshards it would be really good. If it had a pair of TL stormshards it would be stupid OP.

 Sir Bubbles wrote:
A Heavy Stubber or Multi-Laser team would be pretty sweet.

I've wanted Heavy Stubbers available in a special weapon slot forever. I doubt we'll get them though since the Not Storm Troopers didn't have any.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Sir Bubbles wrote:
A Heavy Stubber or Multi-Laser team would be pretty sweet.

I've wanted Heavy Stubbers available in a special weapon slot forever. I doubt we'll get them though since the Not Storm Troopers didn't have any.

While unlikely I looked and Death corps can take a twin-linked heavy Stubber. I wouldn't mind a twin-linked Multi laser... might be a little op idk.

I just picked up the last copies of Creed, Kell, and Yarrick in metal at our local stores. They have almost nothing on the wall in the clam shell.

Here's hoping Creed can have gunslinger, since he's modeled after Patton!

Just had a feeling....

And thanks, Kyoto for the new "Codex" review sig. Still laughing.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
I just picked up the last copies of Creed, Kell, and Yarrick in metal at our local stores. They have almost nothing on the wall in the clam shell.

Here's hoping Creed can have gunslinger, since he's modeled after Patton!

Just had a feeling....

And thanks, Kyoto for the new "Codex" review sig. Still laughing.

If he has two pistols, and the rules say he has two pistols, then he has gunslinger.

As of now though, I think his pistol is twin linked.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
I just picked up the last copies of Creed, Kell, and Yarrick in metal at our local stores. They have almost nothing on the wall in the clam shell.

Here's hoping Creed can have gunslinger, since he's modeled after Patton!

Just had a feeling....

And thanks, Kyoto for the new "Codex" review sig. Still laughing.

If he has two pistols, and the rules say he has two pistols, then he has gunslinger.

As of now though, I think his pistol is twin linked.

Yea, it is, but how does he get the opportunity to use it anyway? I mostly hope they make him a bit cheaper. He is pretty good especially tactical genius is just epic fun sometimes, but he is too expensive, I mean for 135pts you can have almost 3 normal command squads.

 TheSilo wrote:

 Lone Cat wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:






I am really liking the rules for the Taurox Prime. For 95 points (Gatling+Heavy Stubber upgrades) you get 4 S4 AP3 shots, 10 TL S4 AP- shots, and 3 S4 AP6 shots, all at a glorious BS4. Maybe not quite a Venom, but still quite beastly.

145 points for a Scion Command Squad with full plasma has been making my eyes water, a bit late to the anti-Riptide crisis but still quite nice nonetheless. Combined with a Servo Skull Inquisitor and Psyoccolum, well the unit becomes basically broken.

D6 scatter from a servo skull, fire at a unit with Psykers in, like a psychic MC, or Farseer unit, or anything, and wipe them out with BS10 plasma.

1. What is "Hotshot Volleygun"? is it SAW version of Lasrifle? (or smaller Multilaser)
2. Ability to load an entire unit of Infantry/Scion section and being an ATV that ignores all failed rough terrain test makes it superior to Chimaera, in the other words. this is Stryker of the 41st Millenium
or isn't it?

You can just put a dozer blade on your chimera to re-roll terrain tests.

But Taurox has speed advantages that's not available to kitty mera meow~
1. does this mean that Taurox are all 'equipped with rought terrain modifications' from the start?
2. Three access points.. one on the rear, and two by the hull. Does it makes IG-versions of Rhino?

 Lone Cat wrote:


But Taurox has speed advantages that's not available tokitty mera meow~
Also does this mean that Taurox are all 'equipped with rought terrain modifications' from the start?

That pun was so bad it gave me nurgle's rot...

1) It's a special rule, so yes.

2) Yes.

Normal Taurox. still overdecorated to be joes vehicle. but will it gets gatling punisher too?

 Lone Cat wrote:


Normal Taurox. still overdecorated to be joes vehicle. but will it gets gatling punisher too?

Nope. Only primes get all of the fancy weapons.

Standard Tauroxi just get autocannons.

Even then this picture (which it's official) told us that on Normal Taurox, Autocannons can be mounted on the sponson. I don't know that is this just a 'hardpoints swap' feature or it can have pintle mounted weapons on the same position? meow

The codex entry says that the normal Taurox just has a twin-linked autocannon with no weapon upgrade options.

I foresee some arguments about which targets are actually in LOS by the TL autocannon. TFG is going to argue that targets on one side of the Taurox where the autocannon on the opposite side does not have LOS cannot be shot by both autocannons so the TL doesn't count.

For simplicity's sake, I would argue that if one autocannon can see you, then it is a TL shot. Otherwise, we'll just spend the game arguing LOS.

New orders seem cool. Precision shots with that many chances to roll 6s might end up being better than one expects (basically making the whole squad pseudo-snipers). The Shoot-run one is nice, I've always liked the idea of Al'Rahem but have not often stomached the cost. Having it free would be great. It also provides an answer to those 'run or shoot' moments: Both.

Hoping that GBITF stays, though, as that's handy.

I had to ignore that "meow" poster, ugh. Btw, I saw his link in profile and it redirects you to a porn site. Mods, anything we can do?

 krazynadechukr wrote:
I had to ignore that "meow" poster, ugh. Btw, I saw his link in profile and it redirects you to a porn site. Mods, anything we can do?

Hit the triangle and type your reason. A mod will handle it presently.

 JB wrote:


I foresee some arguments about which targets are actually in LOS by the TL autocannon. TFG is going to argue that targets on one side of the Taurox where the autocannon on the opposite side does not have LOS ...

The rounds are guided!

Please, no more "meow."

 MWHistorian wrote:
Please, no more "meow."

I agree.

again! why no feline gesture here?

Because it's spammy and unnecessary for a text medium.

I am not sure if this was posted yet -

"Tempestus Scions can be taken as part of an Astra Militarum force, but they can also be fielded as a complete army using the rules in Codex: Militarum Tempestus..."

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=13800114-gws

So scion codex is good if you want a scion army, but guard codex will have them as an entry for an elites choice!

Don't need 2 codexes afterall!

 Lone Cat wrote:
again! why no feline gesture here?

What Kan said.

And fix the link in your profile.

via a Reader on Faeit 212 wrote:
Got my hands on the new White Dwarf. Flipping through it now, I can confirm the previous reports of new orders and the Cadian Armoured Fist and Wyvern. Wyvern stats are:

AV 12 10 10, Open-Topped, Heavy Support slot and can be taken in 3s. They come with 2 Stormshard Cannons which as has been previously mentioned are TL, Heavy 2, Barrage, Ignores Cover and Shred at Str 4 AP 6 48 inch range and a Heavy Bolter that can be upgraded to Heavy Flamer.

The limited edition Astra Militarum Codex is cloth-bound and will be set at 2000 copies.

One thing that I have not seen mentioned is that all Astra Militarum detachments may now be upgraded to include up to 3 Primaris Psykers, Enginseers and Ministorum Priests.

So if the "suppressing fire" order is legit, is anyone else thinking that PBS with weaken resolve will be a fun combo with foot guard lists?

Heck, I'd take 2-3 PBS and a whole bunch of platoons just to troll people with pinning lasguns.

"Cloth-bound" AM codex?

PASS!

 krazynadechukr wrote:
I am not sure if this was posted yet -

"Tempestus Scions can be taken as part of an Astra Militarum force, but they can also be fielded as a complete army using the rules in Codex: Militarum Tempestus..."

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=13800114-gws

So scion codex is good if you want a scion army, but guard codex will have them as an entry for an elites choice!

Don't need 2 codexes afterall!

Allow me to pick up my jaw off the floor, for this news is a complete shock


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

via a Reader on Faeit 212 wrote:Wyvern stats are:

AV 12 10 10, Open-Topped, Heavy Support slot and can be taken in 3s. They come with 2 Stormshard Cannons which as has been previously mentioned are TL, Heavy 2, Barrage, Ignores Cover and Shred at Str 4 AP 6 48 inch range and a Heavy Bolter that can be upgraded to Heavy Flamer.

The lack of commitment on whether it's large or small blast there is quite dubious.

^^^ Agreed.

Glad I pre-ordered the ST one then.

And I just like the Creed model, fat stumpy Patton. He can just be my HQ, I'm good with.

Haven't seen the actual options for ST codex yet, so no idea. And if he gets an upgrade in the IG book, then all the better.

 pretre wrote:

via a Reader on Faeit 212 wrote:
Got my hands on the new White Dwarf. Flipping through it now, I can confirm the previous reports of new orders and the Cadian Armoured Fist and Wyvern. Wyvern stats are:

AV 12 10 10, Open-Topped, Heavy Support slot and can be taken in 3s. They come with 2 Stormshard Cannons which as has been previously mentioned are TL, Heavy 2, Barrage, Ignores Cover and Shred at Str 4 AP 6 48 inch range and a Heavy Bolter that can be upgraded to Heavy Flamer.

The limited edition Astra Militarum Codex is cloth-bound and will be set at 2000 copies.

One thing that I have not seen mentioned is that all Astra Militarum detachments may now be upgraded to include up to 3 Primaris Psykers, Enginseers and Ministorum Priests.

As I hoped, the Wyrvn fires FOUR SHOTS A PIECE. That is, if I am reading it right and it has two guns with those stats. For cheaper than a griffin it might be a nice suppression weapon.

And it looks like the Primaris psyker is no longer an HQ choice, but is now an "auxiliary" HQ. So long really cheap mandatory HQ, you will be missed.

Here is hoping that priests get the same rules they have in SoB and Inquisition books.

 pretre wrote:

via a Reader on Faeit 212 wrote:
One thing that I have not seen mentioned is that all Astra Militarum detachments may now be upgraded to include up to 3 Primaris Psykers, Enginseers and Ministorum Priests.

This is pretty cool. I expect Primaris Psykers will get a significant points drop (if a SM libby is 65, they should be 40 at most), and assuming priests are identical to Inq/SOB ones, then the re-rolling wounds or saves on blobs could be awesome. Hope enginseers get some cool stuff as well, but to be honest, I'd take Primaris getting cheaper an Inq-style priests and be happy.

So the Wyvern is lobbing 4 small blasts a turn. So you can get a lot of blasts for pretty cheap. Barrage is still pinning right? It sounds neat but I'll probably stick with the colossus.

Pity that the Primaris is no longer a proper HQ choice, the chap, while frail and a joke to that witch Huron, was always a joy to play.

 BrookM wrote:
Pity that the Primaris is no longer a proper HQ choice, the chap, while frail and a joke to that witch Huron, was always a joy to play.

As much fun as it was to have IG led by a counts-as inquisitor, it was kind of silly to have an IG detachment led by a PP.

Count-as Inquisitor? The guy had access to nothing but psychic powers, I wouldn't go so far as likening him to a Throne againt.

 BrookM wrote:
Count-as Inquisitor? The guy had access to nothing but psychic powers, I wouldn't go so far as likening him to a Throne againt.

I used what I could.

 BrookM wrote:
Pity that the Primaris is no longer a proper HQ choice, the chap, while frail and a joke to that witch Huron, was always a joy to play.

I think my Primaris will be seeing a lot more play, now. Assuming they're cheaper (I think that's a given) I can easily fit one in alongside my Lord Commissar, whereas before it was usually an either-or situation. In 1500+ games, I think I'll go for the trinity of Primaris, Lord Commissar and Priest, each in a blob.

The Wyvern just went from "god awful bad" to "still bad, but hilarious to watch".

if the Hydra is any good, I could see myself having one and running a Wyvern for gaks and giggles occasionally. I have a feeling that if it does find a niche, it would be in low points games, maybe a 1,000 tops. Even there though, if other IG tanks stay the same price, it will face a lot of competition.

Also, if we get SoB priests and those orders that are rumored, it could make infantry IG a lot more interesting to run. I highly doubt we would be crushing tournies, but it would at least be more viable.

 pretre wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Count-as Inquisitor? The guy had access to nothing but psychic powers, I wouldn't go so far as likening him to a Throne againt.

I used what I could.

Ahh, gotcha guv!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Paradigm wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Pity that the Primaris is no longer a proper HQ choice, the chap, while frail and a joke to that witch Huron, was always a joy to play.

I think my Primaris will be seeing a lot more play, now. Assuming they're cheaper (I think that's a given) I can easily fit one in alongside my Lord Commissar, whereas before it was usually an either-or situation. In 1500+ games, I think I'll go for the trinity of Primaris, Lord Commissar and Priest, each in a blob.

We can only hope so, they were cheap, but could always go for cheaper, seeing as he wasn't exactly all that much to write home about.

 Paradigm wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Pity that the Primaris is no longer a proper HQ choice, the chap, while frail and a joke to that witch Huron, was always a joy to play.

I think my Primaris will be seeing a lot more play, now. Assuming they're cheaper (I think that's a given) I can easily fit one in alongside my Lord Commissar, whereas before it was usually an either-or situation. In 1500+ games, I think I'll go for the trinity of Primaris, Lord Commissar and Priest, each in a blob.

I agree, if he drops in points, I may very well have a character in each of my chimeras (Priests w/ evisorators in melta vets, Psykers in plasma vets).

Maybe I'm alone here, but if the wyvern is really those stats and 65pts, it seems very good. I acknowledge that in some peoples' local scenes, where maybe there are few light infantry and many vehicles it might be a moot point. But 4 blasts, with rerolls on hits and wounds, is a very reliable way to force saves. S4 shred is not as good as S6 against T4-5, but against T3 it is even better. And look how good thunderfire cannons are, although they are much tougher (but more expensive!) And ignore cover is a big rule even on an AP6 weapon - lots of units and armies will be taking a cover save that is better than armour, especially, say, units crouching on objectives in area terrain.

Maybe it won't be the ruling spam unit of the new book, but it looks promising. Certainly it will make mortar squads look even sillier, unless they get changed somehow.

You know, I don't hate the rumored Wyvern rules. 4 TL, small, shredding, cover denying blasts a turn, even at S4, is going to cause casualties. Assuming an average of 1 hit per blast, it will be pretty decent against squishy support or minimal scoring troops. Anything bunched up will take a while lot of damage with that many templates. The high accuracy will also be good for barrage sniping shenanigans.

I don't mean to sound like I think it's great. Most of what it does can also be done by Griffon. I think that a 65 point model for 50$ is going to make it tough to stomach, though, and crummy barrage rules will make it take 20 minutes to resolve the shooting of a full squadron.

4 str4 ap6 small blasts is a lot better than what we saw before, but it's no meta-changer for the Guard codex. The fact that it's in the heavy support slot at all ensures it'll never see the table outside of beer 'n pretzel games.

Considering 3 mortars are like 60 points (and do nothing nearly as special) I think the new vehicle isnt too bad really.

It would be great if it were, say, in the Elites section, or could be taken as an upgrade for infantry squads (like the platforms for Eldar Guardians).

Using mortars as a baselne isn't really sound, since they're almost unanimously considered one of the worst weapons in the Guard codex.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It would be great if it were, say, in the Elites section, or could be taken as an upgrade for infantry squads (like the platforms for Eldar Guardians).

Using mortars as a baselne isn't really sound, since they're almost unanimously considered one of the worst weapons in the Guard codex.

Beat me to it was just about say that.... Unless something changes the elite section will still be lacking,,,, Would have been a great place for it.

Zengu wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It would be great if it were, say, in the Elites section, or could be taken as an upgrade for infantry squads (like the platforms for Eldar Guardians).

Using mortars as a baselne isn't really sound, since they're almost unanimously considered one of the worst weapons in the Guard codex.

Beat me to it was just about say that.... Unless something changes the elite section will still be lacking,,,, Would have been a great place for it.

I don't know, storm trooper platoons seems pretty crazy. Plus, we have yet to see how bad they hit Marbo, how the bullgryn/ogryn work OR how the PBS shook out.

I'll stick with the Thudd Gun, personally: 4 small blast, str 5 ap 5 and pins at -2 ld, for 55 pts, can take up to four in an elite slot, do want.

 Bobthehero wrote:
I'll stick with the Thudd Gun, personally: 4 small blast, str 5 ap 5 and pins at -2 ld, for 55 pts, can take up to four in an elite slot, do want.

No one asked you, you dirty DKoK player!

Biophysical wrote:
You know, I don't hate the rumored Wyvern rules. 4 TL, small, shredding, cover denying blasts a turn, even at S4, is going to cause casualties. Assuming an average of 1 hit per blast, it will be pretty decent against squishy support or minimal scoring troops. Anything bunched up will take a while lot of damage with that many templates. The high accuracy will also be good for barrage sniping shenanigans.

I don't mean to sound like I think it's great. Most of what it does can also be done by Griffon. I think that a 65 point model for 50$ is going to make it tough to stomach, though, and crummy barrage rules will make it take 20 minutes to resolve the shooting of a full squadron.

The Griffon may well disappear from the codex, back to a unit that could be played only in a FW-allowed environment. As I said yesterday, GW seems to have established a policy where they do no mess with FW field as much as before. We might see the FW artillery tanks left to FW for development and rules, GW having their own tanks in plastic. In this case, the wyvern will have less competitors in the role of horde slasher in pure IG codex army lists.

Today's revelation shakes the established lines : we went from a heavy 2 small blast to a heavy 2+2 twin linked barrage. This becomes quite potent, even if still highly specialized.
The twin-linking is a little bit too much, I feel. Having four barrage blasts, the wyvern should not warrant to be TL on top of that. Plus if will slow down considerably the barrage resolution that is already cumbersome.

Twin linked barrage is nice for character sniping.

The way multiple barrages work, twin-linking is incredibly powerful (ask anybody who's put a divination Inquisitor next to a thunderfire cannon). However, NOT being twin-linked makes the whole unit so inconsistent that people will probably never/rarely even think of it, since one bad scatter ruins the entire shot. Not a lot of middle ground there, so giving it a bad S/AP is really the best way to make a weapon doing what they want the Wyvern to do actually work.

Looking at the improved statline for the Wyvern, I'm thinking it will fit the bill as a consistent artillery piece.

What i mean is for standard guard artillery, you only have a 33% chance to get a spot on hit. Then depending on the guns minimum range/line of sight, you may be able to subtract 3 BS from the scatter. An average scatter is 7", so minus 3 brings us to 4". A 4" scatter even on a large blast is largely a miss. So while that colossus is great at blowing out even marines on a hit from cover, if it whiffs you've lost it all. And if you have your arty in a battery? That first shot is determining where your second & third shots go. So a complete whiff on the first shot will send the following shots to hell.Then you can factor rolling badly for wounding rolls.

On the Wyvern though, Twinlinking will help prevent the complete whiff on hitting and help keep the following shots where you want them, the number of shots is helping keeping the hit count high regardless of spacing, Shred will help keep wounds from getting wrecked from bad dice rolls, and Ignore Cover keeps people from going to ground for 2+ saves and the like.

I suppose my question would be....would 3 wyverns be more, or less effective at removing targets than a combined arty squadron of 1 Griffon + 1 Colossus. The Griffon and Colossus will clock in at 215 points (75+140), against 3 Wyverns at 195. 12 TL small blast S4 AP6 bs 1 re-roll scatter S6 AP4 Large Blast with 1 S6 AP3 Ignore Cover large blast following with barrage rules.

My mathhammer isn't that great, so I'll leave that to someone else to figure out. I'm gonna find someone to playstest with =P

 pretre wrote:
Twin linked barrage is nice for character sniping.

Anyone want to run the maths on whether Wyverns can decently or attempt to snipe Heralds out of Screamerstars?

I hope the barrage sniping mechanic will be removed from the V6.5 / V7 ruleset, rumored to be out soon.
A tweak as simple as giving defending player the choice of models removed as casualties would solve that.


For now, it will be a powerful tank, and what I like more, not painfully annoying on mirror matches in tournaments (due to AP6 only).
While current metagame is not very horde oriented, taking a wyvern or two, will certainly free other force org' slots from the task of firing at weak hidden units (scoring or not). Here is a small listing of Wyvern preferred targets : kroots, ork boyz (under KFF), ork lootas, tyranid gargoyles and gaunts (under Venomthrope cloud), chaos spawn, hidden cultists, plague-bearers. Considering this, it will certainly find some usefulness. Astra Militarum players will also have the opportunity to take their chance, aiming at small painful units such as min-sized eldar jetbikes, JSJ crisis suits, but without wasting precious manticore missiles. Provided that Wyvern tank survives of course, we know how AV 12/10/10 open-top is not exactly resilient these days...

Well now, if the Wyvern has two of those mortars, suddenly the idea of bombarding a horde of orks or those annoying Nurgle daemons is a lot more viable.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Twin linked barrage is nice for character sniping.

Anyone want to run the maths on whether Wyverns can decently or attempt to snipe Heralds out of Screamerstars?

With 1 assuming it hits with every template and hits 3 models. Might do a wound. You Should be able to kill it with all 3 firing. Add in thudd guns for amusement.

Ha, it seems my theory was right, each side of the wyvern shoots twice, for 4 shots! Awesome! I was going to get one anyway, but now I'll get two, and perhaps 3 depending on how my wallet is feeling next month. The hydra/wyvern kit has really gotten me pumped for this release, though I'm still nervous about the griffon, medusa, and colossus being removed.

So its seems like a majority of the rumors that we've been hearing for months are true. I'm still wondering about the new "never before seen flyer ." Is there still time for that to appear or is it just myth?

I don't really want to hand GW all of my money, but I have 40 Kasrkin models who've mostly been left in their box the last 5 years.

I miss the days of doctrines with Guard, and with the release of the 5th edition codex, I didn't technically have any Troops choices (oh, Grenadiers!), unless I used them as Carapace-Vets, which I ultimately was forced to, and I stocked up on Cadians.

However the thought of handing GW £60 of my money makes me sick. So I'm going to have to bite my tongue and wait it out for the so-called new Guard codex. After all, there surely aren't any Guard/'Militarum' players who favour Stormtroopers over Leman Russ?

So today I realised that Astra Militarum sounds a bit too much like a spell from Harry Potter.

So I made this.



I believe it sums up response to the Taurox pretty well.

Rob451 wrote:
So today I realised that Astra Militarum sounds a bit too much like a spell from Harry Potter.

So I made this.



I believe it sums up response to the Taurox pretty well.

Mwahahaha !
You should try with militarum tempestus, it fits mouth movement better and really relates to the Taurox!

If the Wyvvern gets four mortar shots, twinlinked, with shred and ignore cover, for 65pts, that means mortar heavy weapon squads will be what, 45pts?

BTW, mortar squads are one of the few things that are bad and overcosted, but actually needs a price drop more than a rules buff. Not that I'd mind twin-linking, but at 45pts I'd run a squad or two for giggles.

 Polonius wrote:
If the Wyvvern gets four mortar shots, twinlinked, with shred and ignore cover, for 65pts, that means mortar heavy weapon squads will be what, 45pts?

With GW's recent track record, they'll probably stay 60pts

Just pre-ordered a Monster Truckus Imperialis.
It's plucky underdog story has won me over

 LordotKasrkin wrote:
After all, there surely aren't any Guard/'Militarum' players who favour Stormtroopers over Leman Russ?

I love both! I am looking forward to allying the two books together, as I have been doing with ABG/IG for a while. I'll probably stop using the ABG list for a while, at least until FW gets an update out for it.

We still haven't heard word about this 5th kit, unless the box with the chimera is the 5th addition to this release.

 Polonius wrote:
If the Wyvvern gets four mortar shots, twinlinked, with shred and ignore cover, for 65pts, that means mortar heavy weapon squads will be what, 45pts?

BTW, mortar squads are one of the few things that are bad and overcosted, but actually needs a price drop more than a rules buff. Not that I'd mind twin-linking, but at 45pts I'd run a squad or two for giggles.

Agreed that mortar squads need a price drop to 15 per instead of 20, but compared to the Wyrven, a mortar squad is 3 shots but are troops, rather than HS, a major bonus.

Still, Wyrven is annyoing. Now I plan to get 5 of them, 2 to build as Hydras to go with my FW Hydra, and 3 to build as a Wyrven squadron. I also need to get a ton of volley guns for Scions (13 of them)

I love how we're getting a new barrage mortar weapon and the first comment is "I wonder if it's a good sniper weapon?".

Ah 6th Ed. Never change. Or do.

 DeathzHellShotz wrote:
We still haven't heard word about this 5th kit, unless the box with the chimera is the 5th addition to this release.

A mechanized squad with chimera is hardly a new thing, a limited run bow has existed before (I can't recall if it was during 4th or 5th edition).
So will there really be a fifth new kit ? If real, we should have heard at least a little bit of it now. My guess : that's all folks !

* plastic Stormtroopers (with loads of bitz)
* Taurox (ahemmm ! )
* plastic classical ogryns / shielded ogryns
* Hydra / Wyvern

Not bad, for a release in current rhythm of updates. The Taurox was not needed, nor expected, not even carefully designed, so it lowers the overall reception of the IG wave.
However, we already have a very broad range of miniatures available (not counting OOP models, FW and alternatives brands).
The decisive point will be within the rules and point costs of the codex. Tactically interesting, balanced and competitive force ? Difficult to play, monobuild prone, sub-par army ?

 Ravajaxe wrote:

 DeathzHellShotz wrote:
We still haven't heard word about this 5th kit, unless the box with the chimera is the 5th addition to this release.

A mechanized squad with chimera is hardly a new thing, a limited run bow has existed before (I can't recall if it was during 4th or 5th edition).
So will there really be a fifth new kit ? If real, we should have heard at least a little bit of it now. My guess : that's all folks !

* plastic Stormtroopers (with loads of bitz)
* Taurox (ahemmm ! )
* plastic classical ogryns / shielded ogryns
* Hydra / Wyvern

Not bad, for a release in current rhythm of updates. The Taurox was not needed, nor expected, not even carefully designed, so it lowers the overall reception of the IG wave.
However, we already have a very broad range of miniatures available (not counting OOP models, FW and alternatives brands).
The decisive point will be within the rules and point costs of the codex. Tactically interesting, balanced and competitive force ? Difficult to play, monobuild prone, sub-par army ?

If the Griffon goes away, that will also weaken this release.

 LordotKasrkin wrote:

However the thought of handing GW £60 of my money makes me sick. So I'm going to have to bite my tongue and wait it out for the so-called new Guard codex. After all, there surely aren't any Guard/'Militarum' players who favour Stormtroopers over Leman Russ?

*raises hand*

Any more rumor or leaks on the Vendetta?

I for one hope the Griffon heavy mortar doesn't go away. Most people forget that there are other methods of running Griffons outside of Forgeworld.

May I present:



Which is a Games Workshop model, and of which I have a pair, seen here:



Skirts the issue of "I don't play Forgeworld" as that's not a Forgeworld kit or model. It's all Games Workshop parts. I just hope the Griffon doesn't leave the codex, as it's a fun artillery option and a fantastic heavy support choice. A pair of them costs the same as a Leman Russ and are so very versatile against a majority of opponents. I can't see them removing this (or any of the other artillery kits in the current codex) from the lineup. Hoping for good news on this front soon.

Guess we keep on waiting for the next scrap of news. Starting to feel like a certain orphan you may have heard of in literature. "Please, sir. May I have another?"

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Which is a Games Workshop model, and of which I have a pair, seen here

Ditto. One with the original Cadian crew, and the other with Mordian Crew.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Skirts the issue of "I don't play Forgeworld" as that's not a Forgeworld kit or model. It's all Games Workshop parts.

That will of course be the irony if it reverts back to only FW rules, and if people out there refuse to play against it because it's FW.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Which is a Games Workshop model, and of which I have a pair, seen here

Ditto. One with the original Cadian crew, and the other with Mordian Crew.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Skirts the issue of "I don't play Forgeworld" as that's not a Forgeworld kit or model. It's all Games Workshop parts.

That will of course be the irony if it reverts back to only FW rules, and if people out there refuse to play against it because it's FW.

It happened before, and if it happens again, there will be people who do so again.

Yea HMBC. I'm just hoping and praying it isn't a Forge World only (as in the rules are in Imperial Armor) tank. Otherwise I'm going to be very very sad and will have to try and figure out something different to do with my pair of Griffons shown above.

I honestly can't see GW removing the option to field the Griffon from the codex. Or the Colossus, or Medusa either for that matter. I may be looking at things through rose colored glasses, but it doesn't do anything but hurt the release if they invalidate not one, not two, but three different viable artillery options from the book. Adding the Wyvern doesn't hurt, it just gives a fifth option for artillery (Which, I'll be honest, I really like now that it looks like it'll throw four small blasts a turn). I'll likely not field a Wyvern, as I prefer the Griffon's single large blast with the accurate bombardment (essentially just twinlinked) rule.

Also, and on a totally unrelated note, I find myself suddenly REALLY REALLY wanting to get a few squads of Steel Legion troopers to field as a combined element with my Vostroyans. I love the Steel Legion's look (not as much as my Vostroyans, but they are a close second) and I wonder if it wouldn't look too jarring to have a platoon of Steel Legion fighting alongside my V Firstborn Company. Thoughts to ponder I suppose.

Anyway, that's all I've got. Take it easy for now guys.

-RT-

 Ravajaxe wrote:

 DeathzHellShotz wrote:
We still haven't heard word about this 5th kit, unless the box with the chimera is the 5th addition to this release.

A mechanized squad with chimera is hardly a new thing, a limited run bow has existed before (I can't recall if it was during 4th or 5th edition).
So will there really be a fifth new kit ? If real, we should have heard at least a little bit of it now. My guess : that's all folks !

* plastic Stormtroopers (with loads of bitz)
* Taurox (ahemmm ! )
* plastic classical ogryns / shielded ogryns
* Hydra / Wyvern

Not bad, for a release in current rhythm of updates. The Taurox was not needed, nor expected, not even carefully designed, so it lowers the overall reception of the IG wave.
However, we already have a very broad range of miniatures available (not counting OOP models, FW and alternatives brands).
The decisive point will be within the rules and point costs of the codex. Tactically interesting, balanced and competitive force ? Difficult to play, monobuild prone, sub-par army ?

I am personally still holding out hope for a plastic clam pack or two. Guard dose have an issue with getting characters (either finecast or they are squads) and every 6th ed release has had 1-2 clampacks. I am hoping for a commissar and a Primaris Psyker.

 Byte wrote:
Any more rumor or leaks on the Vendetta?

The Valkyrie IS the Vendetta now. The Valk can take the loadout like the Vendetta had, still transport, and frees up a fast slot!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathzHellShotz wrote:
We still haven't heard word about this 5th kit, unless the box with the chimera is the 5th addition to this release.

What happened to the new flyer rumour?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is that rumor -

"New plastic tank based heavily on the Heresy-era Malcador. Large kit outsizes the Land Raider (way smaller than a Baneblade) Multiple variants in the kit. (NOT THE TAUROX)

Updated Basilisk returns. Gun assembly is more rearward with armored skirts replacing the delicate railing. An overall more up-armored appearance.

A NEW dogfighter flyer arrives, that is NOT an existing known model.

New Plastic Stormtrooper/Veteran kit will build a minimum sized unit. Kit includes a TON of optional bits to individualize your squad as well as bits to dress up existing Cadian ranges." WHICH WE NOW KNOW IS TRUE

So what of those rumors from Feb/March?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/21vhw7/new_guard/

I don't think these pics have been posted yet

 DrMond wrote:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/21vhw7/new_guard/

I don't think these pics have been posted yet

Nice pics. Looks like swapping from a Wyvern to a Hydra could be done with a magnetised barrel swap.

One thing I find kind of funny, the order "forward for the emperor!" will be pretty much solely be used for shooting then running away.

Nice pics.

Still not a fan of the open topped nature of both Hydra/Wyvern. Then again, I dislike open topped things by nature.

I'll likely still end up sourcing my guard out through 3rd party alternatives.

So they store the dead crew bodies in Tauroxes to provide psychic defense......wow.

On the flip side, Tank Commander Warlord!!!!!!

If it was enclosed I would be ordering a few wyverns already.

M.

Just checked something....

compare -

GW - Tempestus Scions Expeditionary Force $845

same model count

FW - 30 elysians, 1 elysian command of 5, 4 tauroses, 3 valks $681 (just run as Scions, Tauroxes, & valks)

I don't play IG but that Wyvern looks very cool in my opinion.

Edit:
Guess I should get used to call them AM

Well you could probably enclose it with some plasticard if you were desperate, lol.

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 Byte wrote:
Any more rumor or leaks on the Vendetta?

The Valkyrie IS the Vendetta now. The Valk can take the loadout like the Vendetta had, still transport, and frees up a fast slot!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathzHellShotz wrote:
We still haven't heard word about this 5th kit, unless the box with the chimera is the 5th addition to this release.

What happened to the new flyer rumour?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is that rumor -

"New plastic tank based heavily on the Heresy-era Malcador. Large kit outsizes the Land Raider (way smaller than a Baneblade) Multiple variants in the kit. (NOT THE TAUROX)

Updated Basilisk returns. Gun assembly is more rearward with armored skirts replacing the delicate railing. An overall more up-armored appearance.

A NEW dogfighter flyer arrives, that is NOT an existing known model.

New Plastic Stormtrooper/Veteran kit will build a minimum sized unit. Kit includes a TON of optional bits to individualize your squad as well as bits to dress up existing Cadian ranges." WHICH WE NOW KNOW IS TRUE

So what of those rumors from Feb/March?

The only thing there even barely worthy of credit is "Storm Trooper kit" with "ton of optional bits".

Both parts could very easily have been guessed. That set of rumours seemed complete crap and frankly I called it about 6-8 months ago. That same rumour said stuff about Inquisitional/Cadian parts and that's a load of gak.

Glad to see that they are still showing the other Guard army's even the FW's. Made my day .

The taurox fits in pretty well with all those tanks I think. Pretty big Truck though.

Pitty there wasnt a big page of regiments shown like in the old old codex. Oh well. Still excited though.

I like how they are showing more colour schemes now.

Kind of funny how 2 of the new kits won't really see many buyers.

The Taurox stats kind of blow, and unless the Hydra gets interceptor or a drop of like 25 points, I don't see anybody taking it.

No Ogryns in sight...looks like we will have another week of releases after this one. Maybe there's still hope for the new tank and flyer rumors...

Have we seen the heads in the red box?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Well you could probably enclose it with some plasticard if you were desperate, lol.

Or go 3rd party.

M.

 DrMond wrote:
I don't play IG but that Wyvern looks very cool in my opinion.

Edit:
Guess I should get used to call them AM

They're still the Imperial Guard, according to the article. The Astra Miliarium is some kind of weird rebranding scheme for the codex. Maybe to suggest it encompasses more than just the Guard (Navy flyers, Schola Scions (Stormtroopers) etc)?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
One thing I find kind of funny, the order "forward for the emperor!" will be pretty much solely be used for shooting then running away.

I was thinking more of firing heavy weapons and then moving.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 DrMond wrote:
I don't play IG but that Wyvern looks very cool in my opinion.

Edit:
Guess I should get used to call them AM

They're still the Imperial Guard, according to the article. The Astra Miliarium is some kind of weird rebranding scheme for the codex. Maybe to suggest it encompasses more than just the Guard (Navy flyers, Schola Scions (Stormtroopers) etc)?

Nope, on itunes the preview images of the Storm Troopers codex shows a structure of the imperium image. The AM is separate from the other things you mention. AM = IG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trickstick wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
One thing I find kind of funny, the order "forward for the emperor!" will be pretty much solely be used for shooting then running away.

I was thinking more of firing heavy weapons and then moving.

Yeah, I just don't envisage anyone using it to move toward the enemy. Maybe against Tau I guess.

Man they need to tone down the color clashing on their new models. The hell is the 'eavy Metal team thinking lol.

Those blue urban guys look decent though.

The reddit image leaks are leaving me very content with this release as is. Feelin' pretty good so far (tank commanders!!111oneone). The only bonuses at this point would be;

-retaining "bring it down"
-Cheaper ogryns and sentinels
-hydra gets interceptor
-big vendetta pts increase

 Sir Bubbles wrote:
Man they need to tone down the color clashing on their new models. The hell is the 'eavy Metal team thinking lol.

Those blue urban guys look decent though.

I love it. Bright colours and impractical armour etc. Looks very cool and was one of the reasons I play guard today. I hope to see more like them.

 Las wrote:
The reddit image leaks are leaving me very content with this release as is. Feelin' pretty good so far (tank commanders!!111oneone).

TANK WARLORD! TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNKKKKKKKK!

The only bonuses at this point would be;

-retaining "bring it down"

It's 6 of the 9 cards, so there's 3 we have not seen...

Maybe no "Bring It Down!" though.

 Las wrote:
The reddit image leaks are leaving me very content with this release as is. Feelin' pretty good so far (tank commanders!!111oneone). The only bonuses at this point would be;

-retaining "bring it down"
-Cheaper ogryns and sentinels
-hydra gets interceptor
-big vendetta pts increase

Care to copy paste them or provide a link?

Pics for pics god!

Other regiments confirmed still in the book, don't have to roll for orders (so the card set is just for convenience), new mortar tank looks kinda cool and MOTHER FETHING TANK COMMANDERS AS HQ CHOICES!

TANK COMMANDERS WITH TANK ORDERS!!!!! RRAAAAARGGHHHH!!!!

Now I can have a stupid tank army that will piss off my opponents without having to use FW rules

Weird as it sounds, the cards would actually be reallty good for me. I completely forget about orders, so, this would help.

TANK COMMANDER AS HQ + WARLORD TRAITS + TANK ORDERS.

GW, I might have just forgiven you for the Taurox. Don't screw this up.

 Peregrine wrote:
TANK COMMANDER AS HQ + WARLORD TRAITS + TANK ORDERS.

GW, I might have just forgiven you for the Taurox. Don't screw this up.

Sally Forth:
The ordered vehicle squadron must move Flat Out. The squadron gains the Fear special rule.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Weird as it sounds, the cards would actually be reallty good for me. I completely forget about orders, so, this would help.

Me too. Those will be useful. I also forget about reserves unless I have them directly in front of me.

Peregrine wrote:TANK COMMANDER AS HQ + WARLORD TRAITS + TANK ORDERS.

GW, I might have just forgiven you for the Taurox. Don't screw this up.

I agree, even though I liked the Taurox. The idea of having a tank HQ leading my mech army is... exciting.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
The only thing there even barely worthy of credit is "Storm Trooper kit" with "ton of optional bits".

Actually, I'd also give them credit for the Basilisk rumor. Obviously it's not an IG new release, but FW recently released this, which seems like a pretty good fit:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
The only thing there even barely worthy of credit is "Storm Trooper kit" with "ton of optional bits".

Actually, I'd also give them credit for the Basilisk rumor. Obviously it's not an IG new release, but FW recently released this, which seems like a pretty good fit:

Up-armored is right, even the crew are heavily armored.

What army is in the pics next to the DKOK????

And no one knows where those heads are from????

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sally Forth:
The ordered vehicle squadron must move Flat Out. The squadron gains the Fear special rule.

Lol. This is probably not as bad a guess as I'd like it to be. FW did an amazing job with the ABG list's command tanks and special upgrades, but the orders seem like they were written by someone who hasn't ever played the game. You get a choice of "target has to re-roll cover saves" on a tank that slaughters everything without a cover save, or a 5+ save against melee attacks if you give up shooting. Tough choice there. Same with the warlord traits, sadly. Some are awesome, but then you have stuff like getting a bonus to flat out moves on a LRBT that can't move flat out.

General Hobbs wrote:
What army is in the pics next to the DKOK????

Valhallan Ice Warriors.

General Hobbs wrote:
And no one knows where those heads are from????

Cadian heads from the Command Squad sprue w/plastic rebreathers (from the same sprue).

General Hobbs wrote:


What army is in the pics next to the DKOK????

And no one knows where those heads are from????

Clockwise: Tallarn, Vostroyan, Valhallan

General Hobbs wrote:


What army is in the pics next to the DKOK????

And no one knows where those heads are from????

New, I think. Also, the body on that Commander. Maybe we will see new sprues in the Cadian Command and Infantry Squad boxes...

General Hobbs wrote:
What army is in the pics next to the DKOK????

Valhallans. One of the old (presumably) OOP metal armies GW used to make, so they're probably included just for fluff reasons.

General Hobbs wrote:


What army is in the pics next to the DKOK????

And no one knows where those heads are from????

The heads are from the Baneblade and Hellhound kit and the soldier next to the DKoK is a Valhallan.

But where is the body and the sword of the leftmost Commander on this picture from?

Rostere wrote:
But where is the body and the sword of the leftmost Commander on this picture from?

Also the Baneblade commander. Not sure if he still comes in the kit, but he used to come with it.

Those pictures are great! That hydra/wyvern kit is absolutely fantastic looking! I sound like a broken record, but man...what an awesome kit! I'll definitely be getting a few boxes.

 Happygrunt wrote:

Rostere wrote:
But where is the body and the sword of the leftmost Commander on this picture from?

Also the Baneblade commander. Not sure if he still comes in the kit, but he used to come with it.

Yeah, I see that now. Oh well, nothing to get excited about then.

Heafstaag wrote:
Those pictures are great! That hydra/wyvern kit is absolutely fantastic looking! I sound like a broken record, but man...what an awesome kit! I'll definitely be getting a few boxes.

I'm waiting to see the rules, if the Hydra gains Interceptor I'll grab a couple of them, I don't really want a tank that can do nothing BUT fire at aircraft. The Wyvern looks ok, but I'd rather spend the Heavy Support slot on a Colossus or two.

I'm hoping the Colossus doesn't get dropped from the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone notice that the Wyvern is described as "filling the sky with flak", I wonder if it will have anti-air capabilities?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:
Those pictures are great! That hydra/wyvern kit is absolutely fantastic looking! I sound like a broken record, but man...what an awesome kit! I'll definitely be getting a few boxes.

I'm waiting to see the rules, if the Hydra gains Interceptor I'll grab a couple of them, I don't really want a tank that can do nothing BUT fire at aircraft. The Wyvern looks ok, but I'd rather spend the Heavy Support slot on a Colossus or two.

I'm hoping the Colossus doesn't get dropped from the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone notice that the Wyvern is described as "filling the sky with flak", I wonder if it will have anti-air capabilities?

I hope the colossus stays, too.

edit: Hydra's can shoot at skimmers and jetbikes just fine, which is helpful.

I see they're moving away from the old Cadian Kommando Khaki/Dark Angel Green camo pattern for their vehicles and the 2 tone Cadian colouring is also gone.

Also, anyone noticed the new uniforms for the Hydra/Wyvern crews? Is it just me or does anyone else got a feel that it closely resembles the old Guard mini with webbing and shoulder flak armour?

...but I think that Armoured Fist box will only be like the old chimera+10 troop box, with only a grenade launcher and a flamer as special weapon.

That new Cadian scheme is....wow, I think I may have to get my eyeballs some abuse counselling, it's horrifying.

Out of interest, do we know if the Storm Troopers can still take Chimeras, or are they limited to the MCRAP for transports?

Awesome sauce.

Heafstaag wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:
Those pictures are great! That hydra/wyvern kit is absolutely fantastic looking! I sound like a broken record, but man...what an awesome kit! I'll definitely be getting a few boxes.

I'm waiting to see the rules, if the Hydra gains Interceptor I'll grab a couple of them, I don't really want a tank that can do nothing BUT fire at aircraft. The Wyvern looks ok, but I'd rather spend the Heavy Support slot on a Colossus or two.

I'm hoping the Colossus doesn't get dropped from the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone notice that the Wyvern is described as "filling the sky with flak", I wonder if it will have anti-air capabilities?

I hope the colossus stays, too.

edit: Hydra's can shoot at skimmers and jetbikes just fine, which is helpful.

Only Skimmers, not Jetbikes. Skimmers, FMC's and Flyers is all it can shoot at with its full Bs.

 Yodhrin wrote:
That new Cadian scheme is....wow, I think I may have to get my eyeballs some abuse counselling, it's horrifying.

Out of interest, do we know if the Storm Troopers can still take Chimeras, or are they limited to the MCRAP for transports?

The White Dwarf listing lets them take Taurox Primes or Chimeras.

DEM ORDERS
DAT TANK COMMANDER
DAT EVERYTHING

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
...but I think that Armoured Fist box will only be like the old chimera+10 troop box, with only a grenade launcher and a flamer as special weapon.

Yeah. It'll just be the regular Cadian sprue x2, so 10 guys, 2 flamers, 2 grenade launchers, 2 laspistols, 2 chainswords and a lot of Lasguns.

 Happygrunt wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


What army is in the pics next to the DKOK????

And no one knows where those heads are from????

The heads are from the Baneblade and Hellhound kit and the soldier next to the DKoK is a Valhallan.

The head on the tank commander body is from the Baneblade/Hellhound kit(pretty sure it's Baneblade though as that has the really big 'Commissar hat' with a bionic eye) but the other one is using the Cadian Command Squad.

It contains "respirator" bits that just go over top of the face.

Tank commanders is pretty good news, although I am uncertain what will become of my co-axial stubber. I guess that I will have to buy a useless stubber upgrade. The same with my hydras, which will need to purchase crew compartments. This goes against my usual philosophy of "minimal upgrades".

I am pretty interested in how the Militarum Tempestus book is going to work as an ally though. A tank commander force backed up by deepstriking stormies sounds like my idea of fun.

Cards are nice, going to grab 2 packs of them with the codex.
Glad to see the tank commander and tank warlord traits/orders.

Wyvern looks like it just leaves the Hydra barrel extensions off, so it may be easy to just run a pin to swap between the two.

Really like the new three-tone camo scheme for the tanks.

Why does this guard release have to come along at the same time FW shows off a ton of nice new AdMech goodies?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Wyvern looks like it just leaves the Hydra barrel extensions off, so it may be easy to just run a pin to swap between the two.

I think the main challenge will be making it so the gun barrels don't look wonky. Even in the WD pics, some of the Hydra barrels aren't all aligned.

Things like that really get on my nerves, lol, I can't stand droopy gun barrels or can barrels that should be parallel but aren't.

Laughs, that Wyvern is a rather uninspired afterthought. "Just leave the long barrels off and let's call it a storm mortar or something."

 prowla wrote:
Laughs, that Wyvern is a rather uninspired afterthought. "Just leave the long barrels off and let's call it a storm mortar or something."

All the Guard tanks are lazy - just a different barrel and everything else is the same. Doesn't make them any less cool though.

So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

A very lackluster release.

Ive always wanted a guard army and this honestly makes me want one less

BrotherVord wrote:
A very lackluster release.

Ive always wanted a guard army and this honestly makes me want one less

I think this has been true of every single release since the Necrons, honestly. I, for example, got super excited about the last Chaos release, as Chaos has always been my favorite 40k army. The Hell-chicken and Mopey-fiend and Mutilators-of-my-eyes (and hopes and dreams) caused me to pass almost completely. I only picked up the Aspiring Champ single-sprue guy, since he is very much like the awesome DV stuff.

-C6

Im a critic and hate the Tarox but like the looks of everything else so far.

Anybody else really worried we're going to be randomly rolling for what orders our commanders get?

Because as far as I know, the only time we get cards is for things that are randomly rolled, like psychic powers.

I REALLY do not want to have to randomly determine orders every game with a dice roll. Especially for orders like these that all look really handy.

Also, if we're getting tank commanders, maybe it will unlock a squadron of russes as troops or something? Its no armored battle group, but I'd take it since nobody I ever met would play against FW.

I still can't fathom WHY they would think it was a good idea to change the name.

I mean, I can kind of see a very bad argument that "Imperial Guard is too generic and therefore 3rd parties can use it on their bits"... but that is a terrible argument.
1: the CHS case has shown that 3rd parties can use even the trademarked names if they are careful with the wording.
2: If that was the case, they should have also done that with Space Marines and renamed them to Adeptus Astartes - which probably would have had much wider fan support.
3: it changes the name of one of their most popular armies, reducing the brand recognition. Especially important for people buying online or from FLGS, and for relatives/parents who are used to looking for 'Imperial Guard'
4: It adds expenses in terms of repackaging everything under the new name, possibly new product codes, changes to their website...

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Anybody else really worried we're going to be randomly rolling for what orders our commanders get?

Because as far as I know, the only time we get cards is for things that are randomly rolled, like psychic powers.

I REALLY do not want to have to randomly determine orders every game with a dice roll. Especially for orders like these that all look really handy.

Also, if we're getting tank commanders, maybe it will unlock a squadron of russes as troops or something? Its no armored battle group, but I'd take it since nobody I ever met would play against FW.

Not to mention the sheer volume of possible models that may be able to issue orders you'd need to keep track of in some lists...

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Anybody else really worried we're going to be randomly rolling for what orders our commanders get?

Because as far as I know, the only time we get cards is for things that are randomly rolled, like psychic powers.

I REALLY do not want to have to randomly determine orders every game with a dice roll. Especially for orders like these that all look really handy.

Also, if we're getting tank commanders, maybe it will unlock a squadron of russes as troops or something? Its no armored battle group, but I'd take it since nobody I ever met would play against FW.

The cards are for reference. I HIGHLY doubt you will be rolling for orders.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Anybody else really worried we're going to be randomly rolling for what orders our commanders get?

Because as far as I know, the only time we get cards is for things that are randomly rolled, like psychic powers.

I REALLY do not want to have to randomly determine orders every game with a dice roll. Especially for orders like these that all look really handy.

Also, if we're getting tank commanders, maybe it will unlock a squadron of russes as troops or something? Its no armored battle group, but I'd take it since nobody I ever met would play against FW.

The cards are for reference. I HIGHLY doubt you will be rolling for orders.

I can feel you tempting fate all the way up here in Minnesota.

If we get randomly rolled orders I'm blaming it on you.

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Because it is cool looking, and FW still makes their enclosed versions.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Anybody else really worried we're going to be randomly rolling for what orders our commanders get?

Because as far as I know, the only time we get cards is for things that are randomly rolled, like psychic powers.

I REALLY do not want to have to randomly determine orders every game with a dice roll. Especially for orders like these that all look really handy.

Also, if we're getting tank commanders, maybe it will unlock a squadron of russes as troops or something? Its no armored battle group, but I'd take it since nobody I ever met would play against FW.

The cards are for reference. I HIGHLY doubt you will be rolling for orders.

Yeah, it is handy to have the cards and be able to put them on units so you know what orders you have given already. They help avoid that "I forgot to give orders!" moment.

Trasvi wrote:
I still can't fathom WHY they would think it was a good idea to change the name...

registered, trademark, copyright laws... cheaoer and easier to let got of imoerial guard trademark and get a copyright on astra blah blah.....damn beers kicked in....spelling went to sgit

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Because it is cool looking, and FW still makes their enclosed versions.

Not for long. FW tends to stop making stuff once there's a plastic kit (sales drop to near-zero, or so they claim), and the FW Hydra kit suffers from horrible casting quality issues.

 Peregrine wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Because it is cool looking, and FW still makes their enclosed versions.

Not for long. FW tends to stop making stuff once there's a plastic kit (sales drop to near-zero, or so they claim), and the FW Hydra kit suffers from horrible casting quality issues.

I've got 3 of 'em, and the things I had to do to the poor chimera kit to get them to fit were...unspeakable XD

That said, I vastly prefer the enclosed turret look and certainly prefer a non-open topped tank rules-wise.

They refer to the Imperial Guard and the AM within the leake WD articles, so I really don't think that IG have been utterly expunged from the GW consciousness.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I've got 3 of 'em, and the things I had to do to the poor chimera kit to get them to fit were...unspeakable XD

For me it's the other way around. The hull parts that go on the Chimera fit just fine, but the gun barrels were badly warped (and straightening all four of them to be perfectly parallel is a huge pain) and all of the detail on the "back" part of the guns was miscast. Straight lines were a wavy mess, the two halves of the mold were badly offset, etc.

 plastictrees wrote:
They refer to the Imperial Guard and the AM within the leake WD articles, so I really don't think that IG have been utterly expunged from the GW consciousness.

Like I've said, I don't think they intend to.

It sounds like this is just a product rebranding, not a massive change to the fluff. Astra Militarum may just be to Imperial Guard what Adeptus Astartes is to Space Marines. There are two possible reasons Codex: Space Marines remained Codex: Space Marines. The most likely is that it's their flagship property, so they were less willing to mess with the formula. They sell a ton of Space Marines so they A: don't have any incentive to rebrand it, or B: don't even want to risk trying to rebrand it. The second possible reason is that the idea of rebranding didn't come about until after it was too late in the design process to change the Space Marines. I guess we'll see whenever we get the next Codex: Space Marines.

But realistically, this just has many of the signs of an intentional rebranding. Maybe to make it sound more sci-fiey? Maybe just to make it sound cooler? Imperial Guard isn't very exciting. Who wants to guard things? Astra Militarum is fairly eye catching.


I dunno. But it seems fairly clear that the "Imperial Guard" aren't going anywhere. They're just getting a second, fancier, fake-Latin name that doesn't really translate all that well.

 krazynadechukr wrote:
I am not sure if this was posted yet -

"Tempestus Scions can be taken as part of an Astra Militarum force, but they can also be fielded as a complete army using the rules in Codex: Militarum Tempestus..."

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=13800114-gws

So scion codex is good if you want a scion army, but guard codex will have them as an entry for an elites choice!

Don't need 2 codexes afterall!

Exactly! This creates another Adepta Sororitas. yet it doesn't favor Arbites fans (Regardless that Arbitators may wear and use advanced gear Scions have). It DOES however, rebrand Stormtroops instead.

Can normal IG Command Squad takes Scion guardian

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

I would probably extend the turret armour to the side to surround the gunner somewhat, and also put a couple of plates where the handrails are in the rear, to give some kind of illusion of protection. Many WW2-era vehicles such as tank destroyers and AA guns had only partially enclosed cabs, if they had big guns or high rate of fire, to help to ventilate the gun smoke. Of course the Hydra the guns are outside, but..

The WD text is pretty funny to read. "Hydra is built for stealth.." - right, a stealthy quad AA with a huge turret, blasting rounds to the sky at massive pace. Then there's a mention of "Huge ejection ports on the Wyvern" which are the stock Hydra ejection ports, and there's a clip that would hold maybe two Wyvern rounds judging from the barrel size..

Oh well, at least it's a lot better kit than the StormPig. Not too much converting needed to make it good.

General Hobbs wrote:

Have we seen the heads in the red box?

Right is from the hellhound and left is from the baneblade

Psychic cards have a power number 1-6 on them and a primarus so I don't think they are random. I could see them being purchased individually, or specific orders being picked when psychic powers are rolled. The big news with the orders card is that there is no card for bring it down or fire on my target. I'm pretty sure that means those orders are gone.

It looks like the poor wyvern got prematurely pooped on. A 333% dakka increase now has it outgunning Griffons, collosus, and even thud guns. Sure it's redundant and does a job other igunits already does well, but it's now better than the units it wants to replace.

The wyvern is the laziest "dual-kit" thus far. Litterally the exact same ast the hydra but w/o the barrels for the guns.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Because it is cool looking, and FW still makes their enclosed versions.

Not for long. FW tends to stop making stuff once there's a plastic kit (sales drop to near-zero, or so they claim), and the FW Hydra kit suffers from horrible casting quality issues.

I've got 3 of 'em, and the things I had to do to the poor chimera kit to get them to fit were...unspeakable XD

That said, I vastly prefer the enclosed turret look and certainly prefer a non-open topped tank rules-wise.

Personally, I don't mind open topped on the hydra, if the price drops or we get interceptor on them instead. Open topped doesn't really have a ton of effect anyways, as either it will be taking glancing hits, or hit with a S7 or better weapon which tends to be higher AP as well.

 PuddlePirate wrote:
The wyvern is the laziest "dual-kit" thus far. Litterally the exact same ast the hydra but w/o the barrels for the guns.

They did the same thing for many of the Shadowsword variants. And on the plus side, it will make it trivially easy to swap between the two tanks.

Hmmm, Wyvern=Thudd-gun on a vehicle
Cards, tried in 2nd ed, dropped in 3rd ed, and on w/o cards till 6th ed. Why? because other games are doing it? that makes GW again losing an are they claimed innovations in.

I will still call my army IG not Amil to avoid confusion with Ad-Mech, it was Imperial Guard back in 1988 till now, a long time to make such a change that rolls clumsily off the tongue compared to IG

Open backed weapon controls on wyvern/hydra, Hmmm, I would box them off with sheet-plastic and add in rivets.

Taurox, was it really needed? why not a variant of Chimera?

 schadenfreude wrote:
A 333% dakka increase now has it outgunning Griffons, collosus, and even thud guns.

Not really. Four shots twin-linked is only 50% more than a single twin-linked 5" shot from a Griffon but has all of the problems of a small blast template, the re-roll to wound goes entirely into making up for the low STR, and ignoring cover isn't all that impressive when barrage weapons already ignore cover. Depending on the cost it will probably be about equal with the Griffon for killing light infantry, fail to compete with the Colossus for killing MEQs in cover, and be a sad joke compared to the thudd guns that have the same four blasts (you did bring your divination inquisitor, right?), better STR, better pinning, and much better durability.

Also, remember that the Griffon is currently considered a reasonably cost-effective infantry killer but doesn't see much use because you need to get more than a decent light infantry killer out of your precious heavy support slots. Lasguns already kill infantry, heavy support needs to be able to deal with tanks/MCs and elite infantry. A slight improvement on the Griffon in some situations is far from a guarantee that it will see any real use.

I can not hold back my enthusiasm for the idea of having a Tank commander.

That is just fantastic all-around.

As a Tyranid player who enjoys a swarm of lil' guys and Venomthrope protection, I have to say that the Wyvern is, like, my *nightmare* incarnate.

Just throwing that out there.

*sniffles and strokes the lil' Armor 6 'gants and 'gaunts*

looking to be an interesting release.

orders are FANTASITIC!

3 shots at range 12' and with hot shots, yes please!

I really doubt it will be random for the orders.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Psychic cards have a power number 1-6 on them and a primarus so I don't think they are random. I could see them being purchased individually, or specific orders being picked when psychic powers are rolled. The big news with the orders card is that there is no card for bring it down or fire on my target. I'm pretty sure that means those orders are gone.

Well, we have seen 6 of the 9 cards. Incoming! is likely gone, but Bring it Down!, Fire on my Target!, and Get Back in the Fight! may be the missing 3.

 easysauce wrote:
3 shots at range 12' and with hot shots, yes please!

Range 9" not 12". rapid fire is half range, not 12"

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

 Harriticus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Or option 3, it looks cooler that way. Or option 4, to differentiate it from the FW model.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Or option 3, it looks cooler that way. Or option 4, to differentiate it from the FW model.

Oh sweet summer child, you understand not how the beast thinks.

AM = IG = confusing.

There was really no point in muddying things up. : /

Does it matter? We will all call them IG anyway. We will confuse the new players until they call the AM the IG.

GW will then sue us all for not following their naming convention. We will be banned from GW events unless we use proper naming conventions.

The great IG Heresy will follow with the Imperium of Man split between the loyalist IG and the Chaos following AM. Blood will flow.

There is only war.

It says that there are nine cards covering each of the orders. I wonder what the other three orders will be?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Or option 3, it looks cooler that way. Or option 4, to differentiate it from the FW model.

I'm wondering why they'd need to differentiate it from the FW model, especially considering the FW model was based on the EPIC model which was not open topped either.

Either special character-only, or maybe tank related.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Or option 3, it looks cooler that way. Or option 4, to differentiate it from the FW model.

I'm wondering why they'd need to differentiate it from the FW model, especially considering the FW model was based on the EPIC model which was not open topped either.

Because they have stopped doing straight copies of FW models, like they used to with the Sky Ray, Valkyrie, and Trygon.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Or option 3, it looks cooler that way. Or option 4, to differentiate it from the FW model.

I imagine they'll do it the same way they currently do artillery tanks. Pay extra and it can be closed. That way, they'll keep selling the closed top Hydra and also have the open topped one sold by GW themselves.

Some nice models there, I'm not a fan of the new Cadian scheme with the dark green trousers and khaki tops, not sure why it just looks a bit off. They seem to have trouble with use of colour in the studio recently.
Having said that, credit where it is due the blue/grey camouflaged wyvern crew are some spectacular painting work, the detail on the commanders map especially.

Not sure if it is mentioned, and we have only seen bits, but there is a distinct lack of Catachan in the various descriptions and pictures.which seems odd. Valhallans and Steel legion, which have no models any more, Tanith, which never did, but no catachan, which still do.
Catachan supplement anyone?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
That way, they'll keep selling the closed top Hydra and also have the open topped one sold by GW themselves.

This is extremely unlikely. When GW released the plastic Manticore kit the old FW Manticore went OOP (supposedly sales for it dropped to almost nothing), and the FW Hydra kit suffers from severe casting problems that guarantee that few people will miss it. The vast majority of FW's Hydra sales are because there's no plastic kit, not because anyone actually likes it. If you're masochistic enough to want to experience the "fun" of building a FW Hydra you'd better buy it now, before they're all gone.

 Peregrine wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
That way, they'll keep selling the closed top Hydra and also have the open topped one sold by GW themselves.

This is extremely unlikely. When GW released the plastic Manticore kit the old FW Manticore went OOP (supposedly sales for it dropped to almost nothing), and the FW Hydra kit suffers from severe casting problems that guarantee that few people will miss it. The vast majority of FW's Hydra sales are because there's no plastic kit, not because anyone actually likes it.

Don't "casting problems" just mean the master model has to go back to the design studio for work and recasting?

Either way, it was just a thought, the same way Basilisks and Medusas have open and closed top variants.

Has the wyvern pic been revealed yet?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So it looks like they did make the Hydra full blown open-topped...

Christ why? Why would they change something like that?

Again it comes down to the question of do they know they changed it, and do they even care?

Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Or option 3, it looks cooler that way. Or option 4, to differentiate it from the FW model.

I imagine they'll do it the same way they currently do artillery tanks. Pay extra and it can be closed. That way, they'll keep selling the closed top Hydra and also have the open topped one sold by GW themselves.

As long as the points cost for closing the top is reasonable, that'd probably work.

Then again, if they made the points cost exorbitant, everyone would prefer open topped, making it difficult to use the old Hydra model as a stand in, as WYSIWYG it would need to be converted to be open topped (whereas if there isn't an option for it, no one will care about a stand in model...). Maybe that's just my inner skeptic talking.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Don't "casting problems" just mean the master model has to go back to the design studio for work and recasting?

Who knows. Whatever the reason is the Hydra has been notoriously bad for a long time. Even FW's own books show Hydra models with obvious problems.

Either way, it was just a thought, the same way Basilisks and Medusas have open and closed top variants.

It could be maybe, if the kit wasn't so badly flawed. The enclosed artillery tanks are awesome kits that are (IMO) even better than the plastic Basilisk, and a lot of people will gladly buy them. But I can't see anyone buying the FW Hydra now that a plastic kit exists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

angryboy2k wrote:
Has the wyvern pic been revealed yet?

Yes. All of the WD pics have been posted.

 Peregrine wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:
Has the wyvern pic been revealed yet?

Yes. All of the WD pics have been posted.

Thanks, didn't go back far enough to check.

Javin wrote:
Does it matter? We will all call them IG anyway. We will confuse the new players until they call the AM the IG.

GW will then sue us all for not following their naming convention. We will be banned from GW events unless we use proper naming conventions.

The great IG Heresy will follow with the Imperium of Man split between the loyalist IG and the Chaos following AM. Blood will flow.

There is only war.

I guess it all depends how much "Imperial Guard" is used in the actual Codex. At present AM and Imperial Guard are being used fairly interchangably in the White Dwarf articles.

Maybe they are just trying to soft talk and woo us into accepting the new title!

Is someone really interested in the game itself or is it just...

Oooooh, what a bunch of morons, they made it open topped!

Oooooh, what a bunch of morons, they have wrong color scheme!

Ooooooooh, what a bunch of morons, I cant see in the photos of WD Catachans, they retconned Catachans!

Ahem... I think there will be some stumbling with whole AM/ IG thing, because it seems they keep both parts for the army. I like the fact warlord can be in tank, that there will be tank orders, that there are great new infantry orders (just keep Bring it Down! please)... So far, from the few little pieces, we've seen I like it. And they didnt even forget on Tanith, there are Elysians, old regiments are still there (yeah, we dont see Cadians and Catachans...maybe they are on other damned page?)

And Wyvern is interesting...even I wont use him, because of my Basilisks

 Peregrine wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Don't "casting problems" just mean the master model has to go back to the design studio for work and recasting?

Who knows. Whatever the reason is the Hydra has been notoriously bad for a long time. Even FW's own books show Hydra models with obvious problems.

Either way, it was just a thought, the same way Basilisks and Medusas have open and closed top variants.

It could be maybe, if the kit wasn't so badly flawed. The enclosed artillery tanks are awesome kits that are (IMO) even better than the plastic Basilisk, and a lot of people will gladly buy them. But I can't see anyone buying the FW Hydra now that a plastic kit exists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

angryboy2k wrote:
Has the wyvern pic been revealed yet?

Yes. All of the WD pics have been posted.

Yeah, I know at one time I wanted to order FW models and they were listed as out of stock, so I sent an email asking when they'd come back and was told the moulds were in bad shape so they'd been sent back to the design studio for fixing and would be back in the store after a few weeks.

So having bad moulds isn't the end of the line for the model... unless they just don't want to continue it which is entirely possible as well.

 Happygrunt wrote:
Pics for pics god!..
...

Is the HB turret already in the Chimera MK2 kit?

I guess so from the lack of comments.

Other than that this looks like the new IG (for it is IG!) will be a ripsnorter. May Armoured Companies dominate the battlefield for evar moar!

Pask may become a must pick?

 notprop wrote:


Is the HB turret already in the Chimera MK2 kit?

I guess so from the lack of comments.

Yup. And there's a heavy flamer in there to boot.

I think I might be picking up one or two of these sets if it's discounted against buying a chimera and some grunts separately. Going by the American pricing of $60 it looks like it will be a tad cheaper. Anyone know what price that will be in £?

These will help army builders massively and looks like GW wants people to invest in armoured company - even though tanks are a bit easier to get rid of in the 6th ed meta.

Who cares how easy they are to get rid of If I'm rockin 10+ LRs!!

With that many tanks on the battlefield I wouldn't even have to get close to wining, just one complete fusillade of Battle Cannon fire would warm my heart.

It would take Leaf Blower to a whole new level, I dub thee Armoured Leaf Blower!

 Harriticus wrote:


Best point in this thread (no sarcasm).

The hydra being open-topped has some sort of purpose for GW. Either it's cheaper to make and/or harder for people to convert/kitbash with. I think that's the policy with which GW designs most of their models these days.

Probably due to sprue constraints - to maximize the detail / design without adding another sprue. I suppose it's the same reason why there are no separate mortar bits.

It seems that being cost effective has become one of the major factors with GW design work. I've thought that some of the recent designs feel like they are done on a tight schedule, which also would fit the scheme. Obviously it's smart for a business to maximize the efficiency, but I'm afraid it shows in the quality and leads to a "toy company vibe" - as in, it might feel they are underestimating their customers.

Why did GW make the hydra open topped? I can think of lots of good reasons.

It's a duel kit with an open topped wyvern which is going to sell very well.

Too many people were kit bashing hydras out of Chimera and aegis lines. If an open topped hydra costs 60, closed top is 75, and you're going to play in a strict wysiwyg tournament/meta it looks like your closed top hydra will be converted back to a chimera and someone is going to buy a new hydra that's only 80% of the cost of an old hydra.

Kit bashing from aegis defence line was never a problem for GW : they sold two kits, profit !

I think they move away from the enclosed compartment Hydra because of all the alternative small manufacturers that have taken market share from them, by producing more attractive models than FW Hydra. They were all closed compartment. Changing the Hydra design helps them escape these resin competitors who have been quicker at releasing the tank. On top of that, it was in a time when Hydra was amazingly effective for its points, and in high demand. I can show you some of these alternatives, if anybody wants.

Making an open-top resin alternative with detailed sights, control console and two crewmen would be much more difficult. They can be quiet : I guess no alternative manufacturer will dare to follow now. The new Hydra looks excellent on top of that.

I notice that the "take aim" order says:

"When resolving this shooting attack, all models in the ordered unit have the Precision Shot special rule"

Now, Precision Shot is NOT a special rule, a Precision Shot is where you can allocate the wound yourself instead of regular wound allocation.

Precision Shots occur when a Character or a Sniper rolls a 6 to hit, but the Precision Shot itself simply means you allocate wounds.

Do you think this means that "Take Aim!" lets you allocate ALL hits that a unit makes, or only ones that roll a 6 to hit? As written, it seems that it would be the former, which would make it quite a powerful order capable of removing hidden special weapons quite effectively.

The card as shown in the WD is worded poorly, I wonder if the Codex itself is similarly poorly worded!

It seems that a rule that used to apply only to IC, now applies to general fire when that card is used.

The rule says the effect happens on a 6 when rolling to hit.

Pretty straight forward.

The horribly translated (to Spanish) Eldar codex seems to suggest in the Illic page that units with precision shot allocate wounds freely instead of following the regular rules. Don't have my BRB handy to confirm if that rule is right or the BRB disagrees tho.

M.

 Moopy wrote:
AM = IG = confusing.

There was really no point in muddying things up. : /

I really don't get why people are so confused by this. We've dealt with Space Marines being Adeptus Astartes for years, same with Sisters of Battle being Adepta Sororitas.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
I think they move away from the enclosed compartment Hydra because of all the alternative small manufacturers that have taken market share from them, by producing more attractive models than FW Hydra. They were all closed compartment. Changing the Hydra design helps them escape these resin competitors who have been quicker at releasing the tank. On top of that, it was in a time when Hydra was amazingly effective for its points, and in high demand. I can show you some of these alternatives, if anybody wants.

Making an open-top resin alternative with detailed sights, control console and two crewmen would be much more difficult. They can be quiet : I guess no alternative manufacturer will dare to follow now. The new Hydra looks excellent on top of that.

I think you're all massively over-thinking it. The Hydra is open-topped because it looks cool, not because of some bizarre attempt to get rid of third-party kits. You can't use third-party kits in a GW store regardless of what the official model looks like, and only the worst TFG is going to nitpick that your third-party Hydra model isn't open-topped. The simple truth is it's a reference to the old WWII AA tanks with their open turrets, with possibly some sprue layout or assembly concerns. Speculating about the "real" reason makes about as much sense as trying to figure out why the latest space marine has his bolter held at that exact angle.

I'm going to agree with Peregrine here. The gunner attached to the weapon through a shoulder harness doesn't make any sense over a jumpseat in an electrically powered turret but it's out of the light AAA pieces seen in every WWII movie.
M.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:
I think they move away from the enclosed compartment Hydra because of all the alternative small manufacturers that have taken market share from them, by producing more attractive models than FW Hydra. They were all closed compartment. Changing the Hydra design helps them escape these resin competitors who have been quicker at releasing the tank. On top of that, it was in a time when Hydra was amazingly effective for its points, and in high demand. I can show you some of these alternatives, if anybody wants.

Making an open-top resin alternative with detailed sights, control console and two crewmen would be much more difficult. They can be quiet : I guess no alternative manufacturer will dare to follow now. The new Hydra looks excellent on top of that.

I think you're all massively over-thinking it. The Hydra is open-topped because it looks cool, not because of some bizarre attempt to get rid of third-party kits. You can't use third-party kits in a GW store regardless of what the official model looks like, and only the worst TFG is going to nitpick that your third-party Hydra model isn't open-topped. The simple truth is it's a reference to the old WWII AA tanks with their open turrets, with possibly some sprue layout or assembly concerns. Speculating about the "real" reason makes about as much sense as trying to figure out why the latest space marine has his bolter held at that exact angle.

I think there is also a game play/balance aspect to this where it makes it that bit more fragile so it's easier to shift off the board. Makes you think that bit more about where you deploy it.