SickSix wrote: Well that's disappointing. Instead of harkening back to the old artwork they just made the Stormbird a 'super Thunderhawk'.
This style Stormbird is a pattern in between the Stormbird and the Thunderhawk, I forget the pattern name, but it only carries half the troops and vehicles of the Stormbird, but I think an actual stormbird would be far too large to ever play on a table with. Being able to carry a full marine company...It would be more than a objective on the table, it would be the whole table itself.
FW should release a conversion kit for GW carry cases.......
SickSix wrote: Well that's disappointing. Instead of harkening back to the old artwork they just made the Stormbird a 'super Thunderhawk'.
This style Stormbird is a pattern in between the Stormbird and the Thunderhawk, I forget the pattern name, but it only carries half the troops and vehicles of the Stormbird, but I think an actual stormbird would be far too large to ever play on a table with. Being able to carry a full marine company...It would be more than a objective on the table, it would be the whole table itself.
CalgarsPimpHand wrote: I'm glad I waited to buy a red book now. Does that include all the rules you'd need to run any of the legions, or is there still stuff scattered throughout other books you need to reference?
Aye, same here - If they are all within the same book, that would be awesome!
The only stuff the new Red book dosen't have as the new things in book 6, and the relics in book 4. But the relics are tired to the campaign system in book 4, and are not meant for normal games.
e.earnshaw wrote: Does any one know when the imperial army red book is coming out? Or how close to compeltion it is?
It's done, but they were not selling early copies like Book 6 and the new legion red book. So some time after thows two books.
Considering that the milita show up as required allies multiple times in book 6's new rites of war I Imagen that they would want the imperial army red book out as soon as they can.
Warhams-77 wrote: The FW Stormbird looks like those in Codex: Titanicus (Epic 1st Edition)
Yeah, I called the Stormbird waaaayyyy back in Jan 2012 after a friend of mine from FW told me about it in the works... He said it was years off though....
Yeah, I called the Stormbird waaaayyyy back in Jan 2012 after a friend of mine from FW told me about it in the works... He said it was years off though....
Yeah, I called the Stormbird waaaayyyy back in Jan 2012 after a friend of mine from FW told me about it in the works... He said it was years off though....
There was a time when I first heard about the HH coming from forgeworld and honestly thought it would fail. It sounded way too ambitious to me. Later, I thought it would continue to exists, but get more expensive due to the lack of a player base willing to invest. Now, BaC exists. What a time to be alive.
Has anyone actually seen in real life a Tau Manta assembled and painted? It seems like one of those legendary kits, like the former Imperial Walls that look good on the FW website but when you imagine paying for it, putting it together and painting you probably going to say "no, thanks".
Yaraton wrote: Has anyone actually seen in real life a Tau Manta assembled and painted? It seems like one of those legendary kits, like the former Imperial Walls that look good on the FW website but when you imagine paying for it, putting it together and painting you probably going to say "no, thanks".
I've never seen one in person, amd I've often wondered the same thing myself. It's just so ridiculously huge and unwieldly, I can't imagine someone actually transporting it to an Apoc game and then risking having it on the table. How would you even place it on the table? The base would be so large you could never put it on/over terrain!
Yaraton wrote: Has anyone actually seen in real life a Tau Manta assembled and painted? It seems like one of those legendary kits, like the former Imperial Walls that look good on the FW website but when you imagine paying for it, putting it together and painting you probably going to say "no, thanks".
I've never seen one in person, amd I've often wondered the same thing myself. It's just so ridiculously huge and unwieldly, I can't imagine someone actually transporting it to an Apoc game and then risking having it on the table. How would you even place it on the table? The base would be so large you could never put it on/over terrain!
When I first saw it I figured it was going to be primarily a collector or diorama makers thing, but people play it none the less... I'm glad the largest thing Necrons have is the Pylon
Yaraton wrote: Has anyone actually seen in real life a Tau Manta assembled and painted? It seems like one of those legendary kits, like the former Imperial Walls that look good on the FW website but when you imagine paying for it, putting it together and painting you probably going to say "no, thanks".
I have. Guy who plays at the local GW shop has one, and it's been in to be used in games from time to time. A bit boring, other than the spectacle, because they just put the two gaming tables end to end (so 4x12) and literally all it can do is start at one end and fly in a straight line down the long table. Really, it's a model that demands a big special event game that takes place on a ballroom floor.
Yaraton wrote: Has anyone actually seen in real life a Tau Manta assembled and painted? It seems like one of those legendary kits, like the former Imperial Walls that look good on the FW website but when you imagine paying for it, putting it together and painting you probably going to say "no, thanks".
I've never seen one in person, amd I've often wondered the same thing myself. It's just so ridiculously huge and unwieldly, I can't imagine someone actually transporting it to an Apoc game and then risking having it on the table. How would you even place it on the table? The base would be so large you could never put it on/over terrain!
Yes, like a boogie board Guy in our apocalypse group holds his up with a mic stand, music sheet stand. Works really well. But yeah, quite big.
I find my thunderhawk a pain to use in a game let alone transport to our gaming club. In 5 years its been used a few times as scenery and once in a game.
I can see the storm bird being even worse, I wonder if it has an attachment for a flying base, would be sad to cut a hole in it.
Daston wrote: I find my thunderhawk a pain to use in a game let alone transport to our gaming club. In 5 years its been used a few times as scenery and once in a game.
I can see the storm bird being even worse, I wonder if it has an attachment for a flying base, would be sad to cut a hole in it.
Aye, on an 8x4 table filled with ground forces these colossal flyers are such a ballache to game with. Nice models but they take up acres of space due to the rod+stand used to keep it "airborne". They'll probably spend more time making a nice but very expensive terrain piece. In fact, I'm willing to bet that most Thunderhawks are warming shelves a lot more than the average superheavy.
Daston wrote: I find my thunderhawk a pain to use in a game let alone transport to our gaming club. In 5 years its been used a few times as scenery and once in a game.
I can see the storm bird being even worse, I wonder if it has an attachment for a flying base, would be sad to cut a hole in it.
Aye, on an 8x4 table filled with ground forces these colossal flyers are such a ballache to game with. Nice models but they take up acres of space due to the rod+stand used to keep it "airborne". They'll probably spend more time making a nice but very expensive terrain piece. In fact, I'm willing to bet that most Thunderhawks are warming shelves a lot more than the average superheavy.
The last few games I've played against Thunderhawks they've spent all game sat on a landing pad.
Daston wrote: I find my thunderhawk a pain to use in a game let alone transport to our gaming club. In 5 years its been used a few times as scenery and once in a game.
I can see the storm bird being even worse, I wonder if it has an attachment for a flying base, would be sad to cut a hole in it.
Aye, on an 8x4 table filled with ground forces these colossal flyers are such a ballache to game with. Nice models but they take up acres of space due to the rod+stand used to keep it "airborne". They'll probably spend more time making a nice but very expensive terrain piece. In fact, I'm willing to bet that most Thunderhawks are warming shelves a lot more than the average superheavy.
I have both a Thunderhawk and Marauder Destroyer and the biggest pain is indeed the base. To support a heavy model it needs to be big and heavy (I use an oak plinth). This does not work well with tables with a lot of terrain and/or other models.
Has it been announced when Raid on Kastorel-Novum is being reprinted/updated? It's not available on the website any more, and hasn't been for a few months now, but I can't find any information about when it'll be back.
Goliath wrote: Has it been announced when Raid on Kastorel-Novum is being reprinted/updated? It's not available on the website any more, and hasn't been for a few months now, but I can't find any information about when it'll be back.
RoKN was never a big seller, it might well be gone for good.
Daston wrote: I find my thunderhawk a pain to use in a game let alone transport to our gaming club. In 5 years its been used a few times as scenery and once in a game.
I can see the storm bird being even worse, I wonder if it has an attachment for a flying base, would be sad to cut a hole in it.
Aye, on an 8x4 table filled with ground forces these colossal flyers are such a ballache to game with. Nice models but they take up acres of space due to the rod+stand used to keep it "airborne". They'll probably spend more time making a nice but very expensive terrain piece. In fact, I'm willing to bet that most Thunderhawks are warming shelves a lot more than the average superheavy.
I have both a Thunderhawk and Marauder Destroyer and the biggest pain is indeed the base. To support a heavy model it needs to be big and heavy (I use an oak plinth). This does not work well with tables with a lot of terrain and/or other models.
I do wish that I purchased a Reaver titan instead, I imagine it would be used far more frequently.
Yaraton wrote: Has anyone actually seen in real life a Tau Manta assembled and painted? It seems like one of those legendary kits, like the former Imperial Walls that look good on the FW website but when you imagine paying for it, putting it together and painting you probably going to say "no, thanks".
Yes. Saw it at the weekend when I met some 'Dakka members for a game of 40K at Warhammer World.
The thing is massive. It was part of a display. Looked like it would take up at least half a standard gaming board.
Edit: Whereas with this SM one you could even use it play games around - place it in the middle as a crash land and have one army try and protect something inside.
Yaraton wrote: Has anyone actually seen in real life a Tau Manta assembled and painted? It seems like one of those legendary kits, like the former Imperial Walls that look good on the FW website but when you imagine paying for it, putting it together and painting you probably going to say "no, thanks".
A guy in our local club bought one a few years ago. He let someone else assemble it for him. Just the amount of Resin dust after he was finished was.... EPIC
Frozen Ocean wrote: I love how Perturabo solved his personal protection needs by having a bunch of big robots follow him around with shields and hammers.
Both a) great in and of itself and b) a great illustration of how he really only has one method to solve problems -- throw tonnage at it.
I really like seeing how much some of the fallen Primarchs' fates seem tied to them being ill-fitting tools of war, but the reality is almost none of the Primarchs are particularly warlords first.
Frozen Ocean wrote: I love how Perturabo solved his personal protection needs by having a bunch of big robots follow him around with shields and hammers.
Both a) great in and of itself and b) a great illustration of how he really only has one method to solve problems -- throw tonnage at it.
I really like seeing how much some of the fallen Primarchs' fates seem tied to them being ill-fitting tools of war, but the reality is almost none of the Primarchs are particularly warlords first.
I don't think Perturabo only has one method to solve problems. In fact, I'd say the one real depiction we have of him in the Horus Heresy novels is that he's arguably one of the most brilliant of the Primarchs at actual warfare. I'd agree with Primarchs not being warlords first. In his case he's a craftsman. He applies that same methodology to warfare as he does to creating his mind boggling tech.
But yes, it's awesome that he created robot bodyguards because he cant' trust anyone. Boy do those primarchs have trust issues.
I think it is more that different primarchs need dirrerent sorts of protections based on their fighting styles. Angron is a berzerker, so he needs warriors that get in close with him. Guilliman is more a strategist, so he needs a mix of advisors. Alpharius needs spymasters. And Pertuabo is a siegemaster, so he needs bodyguards who can protect him from heavy artillery shells if need-be.
But yes, it's awesome that he created robot bodyguards because he cant' trust anyone. Boy do those primarchs have trust issues.
They were described as also being "gifts" to Pertuabo's commanders. While it's useful to have a giant robot bodyguard, they are still slaved to Pertuabo, not the commander and serve as a watchman as well as a bodyguard.
Frozen Ocean wrote: I love how Perturabo solved his personal protection needs by having a bunch of big robots follow him around with shields and hammers.
Both a) great in and of itself and b) a great illustration of how he really only has one method to solve problems -- throw tonnage at it.
I really like seeing how much some of the fallen Primarchs' fates seem tied to them being ill-fitting tools of war, but the reality is almost none of the Primarchs are particularly warlords first.
I don't think Perturabo only has one method to solve problems. In fact, I'd say the one real depiction we have of him in the Horus Heresy novels is that he's arguably one of the most brilliant of the Primarchs at actual warfare. I'd agree with Primarchs not being warlords first. In his case he's a craftsman. He applies that same methodology to warfare as he does to creating his mind boggling tech.
But yes, it's awesome that he created robot bodyguards because he cant' trust anyone. Boy do those primarchs have trust issues.
I love the idea of Perturabo being a craftsman first, but it's hard to believe that if that was really his dream it woudn't have been done. Guilliman built an empire. Lorgar before his fall couldn't restrain his zeal (or after, but I'm trying to stay within the 'not fallen' range of behavior). I think if Perturabo had taken all those mock-ups and actually built them, if he had applied that sense of delicate but precise craftsmanship to his warfare, I'd buy into him being a craftsman. He's really not, though. There's no one stopping him from building these things, no one telling him how to wage war. He's a craftsman as much as a lawyer who has dozens of unsubmitted scripts is a tv writer -- he's not.
And the bodyguards just illustrate the same method that, as far as we know, he applies to warfare -- throw shells, bodies, and iron at something until it breaks. Even before his fall he treats his own men as disposably as he treats shells or steel; making his most trusted cadre of guardians literally replaceable steel shells only drives the point home. Dorn is no less crazily comitted to how he does things -- see Sigismund and Dorn's relationship -- but Dorn is fundamentally results, not process, orientated. He'd rather be wrong about method and improve than be right and stagnate; Perturabo would rather make slave robots to defend himself than address the fact that as a Primarch he still doesn't have a cadre of his own gene-sons whom he truly trusts.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: I disagree - I think that most of the Primarchs are in fact Warlords first, but that's not all they are.
Maybe Lorgar wasn't?
And maybe...er...
...that's it?
I'll go through how I see them:
The Lion: Knight Errant. Almost pure Warlord, but lacking in the real rubber-to-road personal skills that you really need for that (takes after Dad). Arguably the best straight-up 'take this world/system and move on' of the Primarchs, depending on author.
Fulgrim: Bon vivant.
Perturabo: Craftsman.
The Khan: Warlord.
Leman Russ: Raider.
Rogal Dorn: Architect.
Konrad Curze: Prophet.
Sanguinus: 1:1 fighter.
Ferrus Mannus: Tribal elder.
Angron: Gladiator.
Roboute Guilliman: Politician.
Magnus the Red: Scholar.
Horus: Warlord.
Lorgar: Philosopher.
Vulkan: Wise man.
Corax: Assassin.
Alpharius: Spy/secret police/spy.
I think each of them would have been happier (or at least less likely to fall) in those roles. Few if any of them really are born to and cherish warfare except as a means to an end.
The Lion: Knight Errant. Almost pure Warlord, but lacking in the real rubber-to-road personal skills that you really need for that (takes after Dad). Arguably the best straight-up 'take this world/system and move on' of the Primarchs, depending on author.
Fulgrim: Bon vivant.
Perturabo: Craftsman.
The Khan: Warlord.
Leman Russ: Raider.
Rogal Dorn: Architect.
Konrad Curze: Prophet.
Sanguinus: 1:1 fighter.
Ferrus Mannus: Tribal elder.
Angron: Gladiator.
Roboute Guilliman: Politician.
Magnus the Red: Scholar.
Horus: Warlord.
Lorgar: Philosopher.
Vulkan: Wise man.
Corax: Assassin.
Alpharius: Spy/secret police/spy.
I think each of them would have been happier (or at least less likely to fall) in those roles. Few if any of them really are born to and cherish warfare except as a means to an end.
How on earth did you manage to get Lorgar down as 'philosopher', but Night Haunter as 'prophet'?
deadairis wrote: And the bodyguards just illustrate the same method that, as far as we know, he applies to warfare -- throw shells, bodies, and iron at something until it breaks.
If that's the most efficient solution then why not? Perturabo saw war as a mathematical problem to solved. In essence it was a maximization problem - how to achieve the objective for the minimum expenditure of resources. In his calculus he would have measured the value of his men's lives using the same metrics as any other resource and would have weighed this against other finite resources - ammunition, equipment, fuel, time.
deadairis wrote: Even before his fall he treats his own men as disposably as he treats shells or steel; making his most trusted cadre of guardians literally replaceable steel shells only drives the point home.
That's because his own men were disposable. Iron Warriors geneseed had one of the lowest rejection rates of any of the legions and so they were able to replace losses faster. The rate of attrition vs the rate of replacement would have entered into Perturabo's unsentimental calculus - he expended the lives of his men at a faster rate than other legions because he could afford to do so. To him, the less costly they were to produce, the less their lives were worth.
I'm fairly certain that Perturabo HAD a bodyguard made up of marines until his flagship the Ironblood was boarded by Imperial fists who made it all the way to his personal chambers, at which point he personally wiped the IFs out. He did trust his sons to guard him until they failed so horribly it almost cost him his flagship and life. Granted by this point he's already been declared a traitor by the imperium, wiped out his homeorld, was was already paranoid to top it all off. I couldn't really blame him at that point for implementing the iron circle.
Perturabo wanted to be a statesman and build (which he's been shown to be very good at!), but ultimately he was the best at tearing things down. I honestly think if the fist and IW had been reversed in roles during the heresy, that the fist wouldn't have been able to crack the imperial palace and the traitors would have paid a much higher price. My 2 cent
All that aside, my IW are definitely getting some of this awesome Iron circle action. The models are just too nice to not get atleast one. The only thing that concerns me is the long thin shaft of the thunder hammer, it look so liable to break.
It would be nice if GW opening a store in your state meant that you could do things like order FW products and have them shipped free to the store, rather than just "We have a storefront in the state, so now we have to charge you sales tax on top of our own VAT
deadairis wrote: And the bodyguards just illustrate the same method that, as far as we know, he applies to warfare -- throw shells, bodies, and iron at something until it breaks.
If that's the most efficient solution then why not? Perturabo saw war as a mathematical problem to solved. In essence it was a maximization problem - how to achieve the objective for the minimum expenditure of resources. In his calculus he would have measured the value of his men's lives using the same metrics as any other resource and would have weighed this against other finite resources - ammunition, equipment, fuel, time.
deadairis wrote: Even before his fall he treats his own men as disposably as he treats shells or steel; making his most trusted cadre of guardians literally replaceable steel shells only drives the point home.
That's because his own men were disposable. Iron Warriors geneseed had one of the lowest rejection rates of any of the legions and so they were able to replace losses faster. The rate of attrition vs the rate of replacement would have entered into Perturabo's unsentimental calculus - he expended the lives of his men at a faster rate than other legions because he could afford to do so. To him, the less costly they were to produce, the less their lives were worth.
I think you've got the long and short of it 100% right. I was at least attempting not to call Perturabo's way right or wrong, and I think you did a better job describing what I see as 'his way' than I did. If he really intended to be a craftsman, than he would have had to have taken the more subtle realities of, well, craftsmanship into account in how he waged war. Instead he was a master bean counter.
Alpharius wrote: It was certainly a big part of his 'older' background - be a shame if it is gone now...
It's not gone, he still has visions of the future, but they're very personal to him, he doesn't really share them like a prophet would.
Yeah, especially as of Unremembered Empire.
Spoiler:
he's in almost Dune Messiah level of precognitive function, making decisions moment by moment as visions of the future fly by.
I would note that I mean Prophet more in the Mad Prophet/Man on the Mountain sense than I do the potentially implied cult leader of Prophet of (X). Someone else called out already how what KC does flows from those prophecies, that's what I was aiming at. He's a vigilante as much as he's a warlord -- that is to say, tremendously skilled at it by dint of blood and power, but I don't think that's the crux of him. I don't think that's his "word" or what defines him when all else is stripped away. If he lived in a universe where no one did anything wrong to anyone else, I don't know that the KC would see the need for, well, himself.
Whereas as much as I love the tragic epic of Sangunius, if there was no one for him to slay I think he would be lost. Although chewing on it I think that there's something to be said for Sangunius as ... I don't know, primitive faith healer? That might just be because we don't really see the horrors the Red Angels reap on screen very often, just hear them compared to legions such as the World Eaters in terms of sheer brutality.
@Nicocrx --I certainly wouldn't shoot down Lorgar as Theologian. Taking a few seconds to read definitions I think you're more right than I was with Philosopher. If he found out he lived in a world where there was no divinity I think he'd be torn apart.
The idea that Perturabo wasn't a master craftsman because he never built anything (one of your earlier posts) is factually incorrect. The amphitheater that hosted the Council of Nikea was constructed by Perturabo and was intended as a place of cultural significance and learning but, like most things regarding Perty and his Legion, was misused by the Imperium. It is routinely described as a monumental architectural achievement. Furthermore, he was responsible for the development of all kinds of weapons, buildings and other technologies in his early years on Olympia - and here's a quote on that latter topic; "....the boy plying his way both as a fighter for hire and as an artisan of phenomenal talent despite his great youth....." One of the great ironies of Perturabo's character is that he designed so many things that would have been supremely beneficial to the Imperium culturally - the words of authors from GW and FW basically - but his superiors only ever saw him as a tool for destruction. The books pretty much flat out state that the Battle for Terra would have gone differently if Perturabo had been the one to fortify the Imperial Palace, so much so that it would have been a massacre and a clear Imperial victory. He was forced into destroying and whatever he did build was used for the wrong purpose - Perturabo was disgusted that the aforementioned amphitheater was used to trial one of the few Primarchs he called friend (Magnus) rather than what it was intended for. Ergo, he was a master craftsman and that was tied with learning as his greatest pleasures, and unlike some Primarchs (namely Angron) he actually would have had a proper place in the Imperium post Crusade as a result. As an aside, here's another quote from Book 3 regarding the subject; "...even from the beginning was his genius noted not simply for war, but also invention....from his chambers a constant stream of blueprints and discoveries sprung, encompassing everything from revolutionary new machines, to treatises on architecture and production methods, and even ground-breaking works on medicine and astronomy..."
As for how he wages war, Book 3 has the following to say; "....none could fault his ability to deconstruct any campaign and plot the most direct course to victory regardless of the cost..."
Also; "(the Emperor) in Perturabo he found a new weapon for the arsenal of the Great Crusade; a warlord and general whose savage might was only eclipsed by his razor-keen intellect. To Perturabo each battle and each campaign was no more than a problem to be objectified, deconstructed and overcome...."
And; "(Perturabo) Having observed the unfolding battle, his superhuman intellect had discerned patterns and vulnerability amid the chaos and din of war, and had calculated the precise point at which to attack to the greatest effect."
As well as; "(Perturabo) Like a vengeful god he ploughed into the heart of them.....As the Black Judges reeled in shock and sought to realign their counter-attack against this new and terrible threat, the gears of Perturabo's plan turned and the elite heavy weapons support units of the 4th Legion.....advanced in precisely co-ordinated attack patterns that predicted their foes' response with preternatural accuracy."
He's far more than a "master bean counter" and I'm amazed that you would think otherwise. He's clearly a master strategist and tactician that simply did not care about what price he had to pay to attain victory, a mentality that greatly contributed to the disdain he and his Legion drew.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for what's coming out tonight, I'm expecting it to be either Retribution or the updated red books - if we're lucky it will be both. I'm expecting the Mastodon and the Stormbird to both be in March at the earliest.
"Victory is won by the precise application of superior force at the point of maximum vulnerability. All else - deft manoeuvres, honour, glory, skill-at-arms -- all are worthless trivia in comparison, no matter what pretty lies my brothers may spout to the contrary." - Perturabo (Mechanicum - Taghmata army list)
That pretty much just reinforces what I said. He coordinates his armies both on a local and global scale with incredible precision and he knows where and when to attack. I don't have the quote ready but Angel Exterminatus shows he has an almost unparalleled eye for detail when it comes to warfare, and he knows how to apply his genius to it. However, he's among the most ruthless Primarchs and he was willing to pay any price for total victory in any scenario even if the odds were stacked massively against his forces. Ergo, yes, when Dorn said "he throws bodies at walls" that does ring true to an extent, but saying he's just a "master bean counter" is objectively wrong as he's still counted among the most intelligent military minds of the Primarchs. It's kind of required if you are described as the unparalleled master of siege warfare.
The idea that Perturabo wasn't a master craftsman because he never built anything (one of your earlier posts) is factually incorrect. The amphitheater that hosted the Council of Nikea was constructed by Perturabo and was intended as a place of cultural significance and learning but, like most things regarding Perty and his Legion, was misused by the Imperium. It is routinely described as a monumental architectural achievement. Furthermore, he was responsible for the development of all kinds of weapons, buildings and other technologies in his early years on Olympia - and here's a quote on that latter topic; "....the boy plying his way both as a fighter for hire and as an artisan of phenomenal talent despite his great youth....." One of the great ironies of Perturabo's character is that he designed so many things that would have been supremely beneficial to the Imperium culturally - the words of authors from GW and FW basically - but his superiors only ever saw him as a tool for destruction. The books pretty much flat out state that the Battle for Terra would have gone differently if Perturabo had been the one to fortify the Imperial Palace, so much so that it would have been a massacre and a clear Imperial victory. He was forced into destroying and whatever he did build was used for the wrong purpose - Perturabo was disgusted that the aforementioned amphitheater was used to trial one of the few Primarchs he called friend (Magnus) rather than what it was intended for. Ergo, he was a master craftsman and that was tied with learning as his greatest pleasures, and unlike some Primarchs (namely Angron) he actually would have had a proper place in the Imperium post Crusade as a result. As an aside, here's another quote from Book 3 regarding the subject; "...even from the beginning was his genius noted not simply for war, but also invention....from his chambers a constant stream of blueprints and discoveries sprung, encompassing everything from revolutionary new machines, to treatises on architecture and production methods, and even ground-breaking works on medicine and astronomy..."
As for how he wages war, Book 3 has the following to say; "....none could fault his ability to deconstruct any campaign and plot the most direct course to victory regardless of the cost..."
Also; "(the Emperor) in Perturabo he found a new weapon for the arsenal of the Great Crusade; a warlord and general whose savage might was only eclipsed by his razor-keen intellect. To Perturabo each battle and each campaign was no more than a problem to be objectified, deconstructed and overcome...."
And; "(Perturabo) Having observed the unfolding battle, his superhuman intellect had discerned patterns and vulnerability amid the chaos and din of war, and had calculated the precise point at which to attack to the greatest effect."
As well as; "(Perturabo) Like a vengeful god he ploughed into the heart of them.....As the Black Judges reeled in shock and sought to realign their counter-attack against this new and terrible threat, the gears of Perturabo's plan turned and the elite heavy weapons support units of the 4th Legion.....advanced in precisely co-ordinated attack patterns that predicted their foes' response with preternatural accuracy."
He's far more than a "master bean counter" and I'm amazed that you would think otherwise. He's clearly a master strategist and tactician that simply did not care about what price he had to pay to attain victory, a mentality that greatly contributed to the disdain he and his Legion drew.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for what's coming out tonight, I'm expecting it to be either Retribution or the updated red books - if we're lucky it will be both. I'm expecting the Mastodon and the Stormbird to both be in March at the earliest.
What book makes clear how the Imperial Palace would have gone with Perturabo on defense? Is it the mock-up battles he and his own legionnaires do? I don't recall, but I am fairly certain it's a much more open question. I don't disagree with any of your points about what Perturabo has the potential for, but when you get down to it, the ideas that someone is both a master strategist and tactician and doesn't care what price they have to pay for victory aren't able to live in peace with each other. That's why pyrrhic victories are different than 'real' victories. Each Primarch is one of a set of 20 of raw ability in the entire galaxy, so winning by huge margins is really the cost of admission. How they do so is -- and when your defining method is to win 'regardless of losses,' that's not really how one expects 'craftsmanship' to be described.
You could argue it just means 'skill in a particular craft,' but that doesn't really help here. All the Primarchs are 'craftsman' by that standard. I think any of us who are experts in our own fields at least feel they are craftsman even if their field is traditionally boring, and I'd include accounting/bean-counting in that. Well-done finance work is it's own beauty.
So what craftsman needs to mean to be useful here as a term distinct from competence is something more about artistry married with skill. While there is a particular artistry about finding one thing and just doing that one thing with all the force at your disposal, it's not a typical description. A more typical representation of pursing victory, even very competently, with no regard for the cost is madness, hubris, or just plain self-serving stupidity and arrogance.
There's a simple test to be done here: if Perturabo is the craftsman and what-not he saw himself as, why don't his conquered worlds reflect that? The extent of his 'superiors' for the majority of his existence are The Emperor and ... that's about it. Lorgar had time to build; Guilliman had time to build; even Angron had time to normalize a non-trivial piece of surgical work across his whole Legion. If what truly drove Perturabo was the craftsman that he was certainly technically capable of being, than he would have built. His compliant worlds would be works of, well, craftsmanship.
Do want to stress that it isn't that Perturabo is incompetent in what he does. Like all of the Primarchs, his hobbies are a normal beings lifelong apex skills. That noted, in a universe as morality-tale driven as 40k/30k can be, Perturabo's greatest enemy is himself. He can have as many awesome designs as he likes hidden in his non-Euclideanly-bound labyrinth lair, but who cares if he doesn't build them and foster them?
Russ didn't go rogue, or at least any roguer, because his ambitions were sharply limited. Dorn didn't go rogue because his sense of obedience and duty was structural to him. Guilliman didn't go rogue because the 500 worlds were the proof that he was better left free to run his own mini-Empire than made to dream smaller to ensure the Empire proper felt safe. Each of these three had to give up something, swallow some core value of their own, in order to both serve their own passions and serve the Emperor. The rogue Primarchs seemed to fail to be willing to give up anything, failed to be willing to swallow any pride or other value, and/or failed to be able to simultaneously understand how serving their own passions and the Emperor could be one path leading them forward, not two paths tearing them apart. That doesn't make it less sad, but it certainly makes it less tragic.
Just when I had convinced myself not to buy it upon its release because there isn't anything I'll need from it any time soon, FW release it and make me question my decision...
That Contemptor Talon is the being sold as the Contemptor Cortus. Looks like we're spared from another round of contemptor variants at least. Still waiting for the Furibundus!
deadairis wrote: What book makes clear how the Imperial Palace would have gone with Perturabo on defense? Is it the mock-up battles he and his own legionnaires do? I don't recall, but I am fairly certain it's a much more open question. I don't disagree with any of your points about what Perturabo has the potential for, but when you get down to it, the ideas that someone is both a master strategist and tactician and doesn't care what price they have to pay for victory aren't able to live in peace with each other. That's why pyrrhic victories are different than 'real' victories. Each Primarch is one of a set of 20 of raw ability in the entire galaxy, so winning by huge margins is really the cost of admission. How they do so is -- and when your defining method is to win 'regardless of losses,' that's not really how one expects 'craftsmanship' to be described.
You could argue it just means 'skill in a particular craft,' but that doesn't really help here. All the Primarchs are 'craftsman' by that standard. I think any of us who are experts in our own fields at least feel they are craftsman even if their field is traditionally boring, and I'd include accounting/bean-counting in that. Well-done finance work is it's own beauty.
So what craftsman needs to mean to be useful here as a term distinct from competence is something more about artistry married with skill. While there is a particular artistry about finding one thing and just doing that one thing with all the force at your disposal, it's not a typical description. A more typical representation of pursing victory, even very competently, with no regard for the cost is madness, hubris, or just plain self-serving stupidity and arrogance.
There's a simple test to be done here: if Perturabo is the craftsman and what-not he saw himself as, why don't his conquered worlds reflect that? The extent of his 'superiors' for the majority of his existence are The Emperor and ... that's about it. Lorgar had time to build; Guilliman had time to build; even Angron had time to normalize a non-trivial piece of surgical work across his whole Legion. If what truly drove Perturabo was the craftsman that he was certainly technically capable of being, than he would have built. His compliant worlds would be works of, well, craftsmanship.
Do want to stress that it isn't that Perturabo is incompetent in what he does. Like all of the Primarchs, his hobbies are a normal beings lifelong apex skills. That noted, in a universe as morality-tale driven as 40k/30k can be, Perturabo's greatest enemy is himself. He can have as many awesome designs as he likes hidden in his non-Euclideanly-bound labyrinth lair, but who cares if he doesn't build them and foster them?
Russ didn't go rogue, or at least any roguer, because his ambitions were sharply limited. Dorn didn't go rogue because his sense of obedience and duty was structural to him. Guilliman didn't go rogue because the 500 worlds were the proof that he was better left free to run his own mini-Empire than made to dream smaller to ensure the Empire proper felt safe. Each of these three had to give up something, swallow some core value of their own, in order to both serve their own passions and serve the Emperor. The rogue Primarchs seemed to fail to be willing to give up anything, failed to be willing to swallow any pride or other value, and/or failed to be able to simultaneously understand how serving their own passions and the Emperor could be one path leading them forward, not two paths tearing them apart. That doesn't make it less sad, but it certainly makes it less tragic.
I might have mistakenly drawn the information regarding the Imperial Palace from conjecture rather than factual sources, so my bad. I believe it is implied in certain works but that might just be bad memory on my part.
I don't subscribe to Perturabo achieving a long line of phyrric victories because unlike the real life examples of that, any losses he suffered were instantly replaced and his victories were absolute and ended in entire planetary populations being nearly wiped out. He also engaged in some of the most brutal conflicts of the Great Crusade in terms of what opposition he faced as well as siege warfare being described as the most perilous which should attest to the fact that the high casualty rates were inevitable and not solely a fault of Perturabo's military application (but obviously they contributed to them), again sourcing Extermination; "siege assault - the most dangerous and unpredictable of all forms of line warfare", "Meanwhile Perturabo's own 125th Expeditionary Fleet was driven into the teeth of deadly foe after deadly foe, neither asking for, nor being sent reinforcements or additional resources, save for those it could itself generate and acquire", "thankless sieges and garrison postings in the most dangerous, forlorn and isolated corners of the ever-widening Imperium". Ergo, if he was able to routinely replace any losses he suffered, fight on without actual reinforcements and routinely engage in some of the harshest war-zones of the Great Crusade, I would suggest that the losses he suffered weren't a mar on his military acumen as you imply but more a reflection of the terrible battles the Iron Warriors were constantly forced to engage in - he won victory after victory in those circumstances and used his brutally efficient means of warfare to do so. Being the "siege experts" also pretty much constitutes suffering high attrition rates due to their grueling nature, something that no other Legion had to deal with to the same extent. Some more food for thought in that regard; "For over a year, the Iron Warriors Legion had been involved in the almost single-handed suppression of a major infestation of....Hrudd.....all such actions in the history of the Great Crusade have proved costly both in terms of lives and the sanity of those who must fight such nightmares, and this was no exception....Forced to contend with the violent disruptions in the fabric of time, storms of solar flares and tectonic instability attendant on these incomprehensible entities, as well as the malign technology wielded by the creatures themselves, the Iron Warriors Legion is estimated to have lost more than a fifth of its then active strength in a campaign located far from the border of the Imperium and what to many seemed a doomed and purposeless expedition under what appeared at least to be direct orders from Terra." This ties into both the genius and flaws of Perturabo; the implication here is that any other Legion would have likely given up and lost the conflict by being forced to retreat, but Perturabo still managed to achieve victory against seemingly impossible odds. However, it is as you say in the sense that it only exemplifies his growing madness. I would say he is a psychopath as you say, there's no doubt about that and it is one of his defining attributes and is ultimately a big part of why he turns to Chaos. Annihilating the population of Olympia snapped his mind in half. He also achieved victories that other Legions with incredibly impressive combat records failed to accomplish, which in itself is testament to his military capacity. Whether costly or not, he was the one responsible for those victories where other Legions failed. Using the war against Waaagh! Mashogg as an example; "in this latter incident for example, although before Perturabo and the Iron Warriors' arrival in the war zone, Overdog Mashogg's vast orbital fortifications had previously repulsed attack after attack from both the Space Wolves and the White Scars, Perturabo, whose plan succeeded at last in breaking the line and allowing for the Orks slaughter..." So, long story short, he was most assuredly a military genius that, per Angel Exterminatus, earned respect from Roboute himself despite the latter hating Perty's guts for the decimation order. His methods were utterly brutal but that doesn't take away from his many amazing accomplishments which, surprise, were undervalued by the Imperium and his fellow Primarchs/Legions.
As for craftsmanship and how he applied that to war, he designed or was pivotal in the development of a lot of different weapons, armors and so on; he had a hand in the Typhons' creation, he developed the weapons used both by himself and the Iron Circle, he crafted his personalized suit of armor which - rules-wise - is among the most advanced worn by any Primarch, and if we are looking at the theoretical side of warfare then I'll simply point to an earlier pair of quotes I used; "none could fault his ability to deconstruct any campaign and plot the most direct course to victory" and "each battle and each campaign was no more than a problem to be objectified, deconstructed and overcome." It flat out states there that he saw wars as equations to be solved which is a pretty overt link to his architectural and intellectual pursuits, he applied his genius to conflicts just as he did his creations.
Your point about the worlds Perturabo left behind is rather unusual given that he wasn't given the opportunity to ever remain for a time in any location and was constantly forced into a new engagement, leaving token forces behind to garrison and fortify the world. He held ire towards Rogal Dorn because Dorn actually was given ample opportunities to build which was Perturabo's greatest desire. If you want some examples of what Perturabo actually made - ergo proving the "he doesn't build them" point utterly wrong, here are some (using Angel Exterminatus as a reference point and the 40Kwiki as a source); the amphitheater in the heart of a stratovolcano which would house the Council of Nikaea followed by "a silver lyre in the shape of a horse's head, gilded eggs, fabulously wrought birdcages...(in his quarters) miniature war machines competed for space alongside automata of all shapes and description - animal, mechanical, human and alien....a host of clockwork automatons.....a golden lion that was to be presented to Lion El'Jonson....but which had never been finished, a bronze horse that had been designed for a great centrepiece at Nikaea and never used and a celestial timepiece that Roboute Guilliman had mounted on the tallest tower of his Temple of Correction on Macragge." He was pivotal in the design of the Typhon Heavy Siege Tank, and as per his time on Olympia (again using Retribution here) "new weapons, munitions and hitherto unimagined siege engines were all birthed at Perturabo's hand..." If you seriously want to argue that Perturabo "doesn't build them and foster them" you would be very, very wrong. He built them. It wasn't his fault that the Imperium didn't use his latter designs - see Nikaea - but many of them did see use in Olympia and elsewhere.
As for your final paragraph, I mostly agree but with a few caveats. Perturabo turned to Horus because he knew the Emperor would never forgive him for what he did on Olympia even though he was only doing what the Imperium had fashioned him and his Legion to be - a relentless weapon of destruction. Perturabo despises himself because he became a monster and betrayed his oath to the Emperor. Perturabo gave up his love of creation - as the Imperium didn't want him for that - and he had to swallow his core value of peace before war (again, Angel Exterminatus) to serve the Imperium so as to serve the Emperor. What's the difference? Perturabo - like the Iron Warriors - was misused and it is why he is undeniably one of the most relatable of the Traitor Primarchs, falling short perhaps only of Magnus and maybe Kurze. If you aren't convinced as to why his story is tragic, here's the most telling quote from Angel Exterminatus that speaks volumes about him; "You don't know the things I dream. No one does, no one ever cared enough to find out." Add to that the fact that he was remorseful at turning traitor, actively despised the other traitors for their affiliation with Chaos and lack of honor as well as hoped for the Emperor surrendering rather than dying at the end of the Heresy.
Automatically Appended Next Post: But enough off-topic discussion, woo hoo for Book 6! Going to have to order it at some point for sure, price isn't too bad.
Finally, I've been waiting for a Leviathan Dread bundle since I saw you could take them as a Talon, but this is one of those zero discount bundles so I was all
Paradigm wrote: There's also a new bundle with the new book and the Crusade Army List, presumably the new version?
It's most likely the old one, it doesn't say anything about it being the updated one and it's not available updated on its own. I think it's probably the old one still.
Paradigm wrote: There's also a new bundle with the new book and the Crusade Army List, presumably the new version?
It's most likely the old one, it doesn't say anything about it being the updated one and it's not available updated on its own. I think it's probably the old one still.
I'd think that, but hadn't they explicitly said that the old book out out of print and out of stock, and the next print run would be the new version? Seems odd that you can't get the book on its own, but it's in stock if you order it in a bundle.
I emailed FW and was told that it was the current Red book.
I replied and asked if the new one was coming out soon, since the new legion book was coming out soon. I've yet to get a response to that (I don't really expect one).
Don't forget there are two red books. The general army list and the legion specific book. The legion specific book is out of stock and the new one was previewed at the weekender. The general army list is due to be updated in the near future (it was sent to the printers within the last week or so), and the book being sold in this bundle is the old one. Avoid this bundle and wait for the updated version.
I get it, there are good 6mm and bad 6mm. These are good 6mm. My point, though possibly hyperbolic, was simply that GW will want a scale that they can show off the superiority of their modern model making technology. I see the change of scale GW is taking with epic as no different than what they've done with 40k over the years as they've gone from a truer 25mm to 28mm to 28mm heroic... I think the infantry models quality will be a bit moot, since they've said the greater emphasis is on titans, and I can only imagine it is all about whatever scale will make the titans look best.
I get it, there are good 6mm and bad 6mm. These are good 6mm. My point, though possibly hyperbolic, was simply that GW will want a scale that they can show off the superiority of their modern model making technology. I see the change of scale GW is taking with epic as no different than what they've done with 40k over the years as they've gone from a truer 25mm to 28mm to 28mm heroic... I think the infantry models quality will be a bit moot, since they've said the greater emphasis is on titans, and I can only imagine it is all about whatever scale will make the titans look best.
its more likely that they are just trying to stiff people that already have epic so they need to get new scaled ones. AND to mess with all the 3rd parties that already make it too.
I honestly never remember epic being compatible with other gameing miniatures back in the day. Epic failed because they didn't sell enough to sustain it, so you can't blame GW for doing whatever it takes to sell enough now lest history repeats itself. As someone who worked with a 3rd party bit manufacturer to designed with compatibility to GW models I never blamed them for making changes to their product line. It's their game and they're the ones risking greatest sum of money on whether it lives or dies.
aka_mythos wrote: I honestly never remember epic being compatible with other gameing miniatures back in the day. Epic failed because they didn't sell enough to sustain it, so you can't blame GW for doing whatever it takes to sell enough now lest history repeats itself. As someone who worked with a 3rd party bit manufacturer to designed with compatibility to GW models I never blamed them for making changes to their product line. It's their game and they're the ones risking greatest sum of money on whether it lives or dies.
MajorWesJanson wrote: It would be nice if GW opening a store in your state meant that you could do things like order FW products and have them shipped free to the store, rather than just "We have a storefront in the state, so now we have to charge you sales tax on top of our own VAT
No kidding. This very thought crossed my mind when I got book 4 in the mail and noticed it had been shipped from Memphis.
Damn, those are some sexy sketches. Makes me really wish they went that direction with the Space Wolves as space vikings rather than wolf mcwolferson with all the subtly of a wolf-shaped wolfhammer.
EDIT: ah, but wait, this is Forgeworld! They might actually get this right then!
The Lion: Knight Errant. Almost pure Warlord, but lacking in the real rubber-to-road personal skills that you really need for that (takes after Dad). Arguably the best straight-up 'take this world/system and move on' of the Primarchs, depending on author.
Fulgrim: Bon vivant.
Perturabo: Craftsman.
The Khan: Warlord.
Leman Russ: Raider.
Rogal Dorn: Architect.
Konrad Curze: Prophet.
Sanguinus: 1:1 fighter.
Ferrus Mannus: Tribal elder.
Angron: Gladiator.
Roboute Guilliman: Politician.
Magnus the Red: Scholar.
Horus: Warlord.
Lorgar: Philosopher.
Vulkan: Wise man.
Corax: Assassin.
Alpharius: Spy/secret police/spy.
I think each of them would have been happier (or at least less likely to fall) in those roles. Few if any of them really are born to and cherish warfare except as a means to an end.
Hey, @ Deadair, I had (what I thought was) an interesting thread about this a while ago. If you're interested, here's the link.
I think they were all bred for war, but that the Emperor had (initially at least) planned a different use for each of them...before the Primordial Annihilator got involved and messed everything up. The best laid plans, and all that.
Not necessarily. I was pretty surprised when I saw the model on the right in person as it was roughly in between an ogryn and a dreadnought but significantly smaller than the plastic 40k robot released a year or two ago. I'm guessing the new, larger 30k one is actually the size of the 40k plastic robot.
Not necessarily. I was pretty surprised when I saw the model on the right in person as it was roughly in between an ogryn and a dreadnought but significantly smaller than the plastic 40k robot released a year or two ago. I'm guessing the new, larger 30k one is actually the size of the 40k plastic robot.
I feel like your scaling is a little off. The Domitar looks like it'll be larger than the Kastelan.
Haighus wrote: I feel like your scaling is a little off. The Domitar looks like it'll be larger than the Kastelan.
Thanks for the pic. I quick matched the size of the older FW robot (the name escapes me at the moment) in both pics. The older FW one is smaller than the Kastelan but the new one is noticeably larger.
It looks like it'll only be a wee bit shorter than the Thanatar, but much less bulky. Certainly the Ferrox variant will make a fitting bodyguard for Perturabo...
The humanoid fingers and hands of the Domitar are much more reminiscent of the Thallax, while the Castellax and Thanatar share a sort of pneumatic claw hand design. I wonder if, in addition to the Ferrum-class for IH, they'll have a close combat variant for the Mechanicum?
Last Friday was HH6, now it's the Domitar, perhaps they will continue the AdMech trend?
I'm not expecting to see the Secutarii until Inferno, since they're supposed to be specifically the troops of the Legio Titanicus and they will feature in that apparently.
As for the evil stunty - lovely model, shame almost nobody will be able to buy the damn thing. Seriously the event-only stuff was bad enough, but apparently even that was too wide an audience for them so now the special models can only be bought in literally one store on the entire planet? Feck's sake FW.
That's pretty cool. It'll be interesting to see if FW comes out with AoS support for Chaos Dwarfs now.
Looks like the event exclusive from 2013 I believe. The weapon is slightly different. and there are adjustments. I had the older model and was pleased so this looks even better.
Yup, totally the same model except for the weapon. And the pose. And the hat. And face. Beard too. Oh, and the mail skirt, the palm-down fire-hand, the base, the shoulder pads….
Other than that, completely identical.
the_Armyman wrote: The humanoid fingers and hands of the Domitar are much more reminiscent of the Thallax, while the Castellax and Thanatar share a sort of pneumatic claw hand design. I wonder if, in addition to the Ferrum-class for IH, they'll have a close combat variant for the Mechanicum?
No, the Domitar is already supposed to be the close combat specialist. Those Grav Hammers on each arm double his strength like a Power Fist and he comes with the Rampage USR.
As cool as the Domitar looks though, rules wise the new unit that was introduced in Retribution seems like it would be far more effective for the same points cost.
I'll echo the sentiment about the rotor cannon; looks so cool but is one of the few truly bad choices in game. They should at least be s4, salvo4/5 would help too. I really like the look of the lascannnon, same with the missile launcher even if it's a bit impractical.
While these sets are mainly a fast and economical way of putting out more heavy weapon variants for the Calth plastics, they have a sweet rule of cool vibe to them. Sure, the low-slung missile launcher looks like a bad choice, but it has a certain coolness to it, especially when paired with that targeting unit mounted on the pack.
Looking at the rotor cannon again, I'll wait and see how the back of the model looks, because with a little cutting and snipping, these will make for excellent not-Veletaris upgrades.
edit.
Orrrrrr, use them as count-as heavy bolters. I mean, feth it right?
BrookM wrote: While these sets are mainly a fast and economical way of putting out more heavy weapon variants for the Calth plastics, they have a sweet rule of cool vibe to them. Sure, the low-slung missile launcher looks like a bad choice, but it has a certain coolness to it, especially when paired with that targeting unit mounted on the pack.
Looking at the rotor cannon again, I'll wait and see how the back of the model looks, because with a little cutting and snipping, these will make for excellent not-Veletaris upgrades.
edit.
Orrrrrr, use them as count-as heavy bolters. I mean, feth it right?
They're very nice, but I can't help but feel a tad resentful that Marines are getting an entirely new set of heavy weapons to go with the existing complete set of heavy weapons they already have, while the Secutor and Destructor weapon packs Mechanicum players were promised two years ago are still MIA.
You know, the ones without which it's impossible to build loadout-matched units without extensive conversions.
Yodhrin wrote: You know, the ones without which it's impossible to build loadout-matched units without extensive conversions.
Not to diminish your grievance, but you could just buy more and match weapon types without converting, provided you have deep enough pockets. Crappy solution, though, I know.
And I am still waiting on Vyronii decals that, via email, were said to be right around the corner. So, I somewhat feel your pain.
Yodhrin wrote: You know, the ones without which it's impossible to build loadout-matched units without extensive conversions.
Not to diminish your grievance, but you could just buy more and match weapon types without converting, provided you have deep enough pockets. Crappy solution, though, I know.
And I am still waiting on Vyronii decals that, via email, were said to be right around the corner. So, I somewhat feel your pain.
I'm pretty sure all weapon options aren't available though, so you couldn't do that even if you had the money.
Missile launcher would be good for the suspensor equipped versions the Vets and Destroyers use. I'm waiting for the drum fed Auto cannons they showed at the weekender though.
Yodhrin wrote: You know, the ones without which it's impossible to build loadout-matched units without extensive conversions.
Not to diminish your grievance, but you could just buy more and match weapon types without converting, provided you have deep enough pockets. Crappy solution, though, I know.
And I am still waiting on Vyronii decals that, via email, were said to be right around the corner. So, I somewhat feel your pain.
I'm pretty sure all weapon options aren't available though, so you couldn't do that even if you had the money.
I thought each 3-man pack had one of each... but I don't know AdMech/Taghmata that well. That seems crappy if there are missing options! FW has such a bizarre release schedule/priority. Like, why not drop the new book and everything in it at once? Like a real general release? I get that logistics might be hell, but... I mean, it has been some years now for a lot of this stuff. Or maybe just an ETA once in a while, instead of the typical secrecy pattern they inherited from GW.
angelofvengeance wrote: Not sure about the missile launcher.. if you're stomping about the battlefield, there's lots of potential for crap to get stuck in the ammo feed.
and no convenient way to reload either, a top mounted feed makes far more sense
Yodhrin wrote: You know, the ones without which it's impossible to build loadout-matched units without extensive conversions.
Not to diminish your grievance, but you could just buy more and match weapon types without converting, provided you have deep enough pockets. Crappy solution, though, I know.
And I am still waiting on Vyronii decals that, via email, were said to be right around the corner. So, I somewhat feel your pain.
I'm pretty sure all weapon options aren't available though, so you couldn't do that even if you had the money.
I thought each 3-man pack had one of each... but I don't know AdMech/Taghmata that well. That seems crappy if there are missing options! FW has such a bizarre release schedule/priority. Like, why not drop the new book and everything in it at once? Like a real general release? I get that logistics might be hell, but... I mean, it has been some years now for a lot of this stuff. Or maybe just an ETA once in a while, instead of the typical secrecy pattern they inherited from GW.
The Secutors have one each for the Maxim Bolter, Phased Plasma Fusil and Graviton gun in the set. I have no idea if you can contact them and ask for a set with all the same weapons or not, but theirs no parts for the Volkite Charger or Irad-Cleanser yet. For the Destructors you get the Volkite Culverine, Irradiation Engine and Conversion Beamer but no Photon Thruster or Graviton Imploder.
I agree that their release schedule can be a bit bizare and it would certainly be nice to have all the weapon options available for the models they've already released, but I relaly wouldn't say they have a secrecey policy, I mean they've just recently shown off what they'll be working on for the next year or so, that a hell of a lot more than we got from GW main.
The Secutors have one each for the Maxim Bolter, Phased Plasma Fusil and Graviton gun in the set. I have no idea if you can contact them and ask for a set with all the same weapons or not, but theirs no parts for the Volkite Charger or Irad-Cleanser yet. For the Destructors you get the Volkite Culverine, Irradiation Engine and Conversion Beamer but no Photon Thruster or Graviton Imploder.
I agree that their release schedule can be a bit bizare and it would certainly be nice to have all the weapon options available for the models they've already released, but I relaly wouldn't say they have a secrecey policy, I mean they've just recently shown off what they'll be working on for the next year or so, that a hell of a lot more than we got from GW main.
Huh. Didn't know that.
Also, by secrecy I meant that you can email them and they give a general non-answer. I like that they do previews of what is coming and all, but it makes planning these (expensive) armies a bit tough sometimes. I don't want to start a project and spend a ton on conversions only to have official models release a week after that. Though I am a perfectionist, so that kinda is my issue.
The Secutors have one each for the Maxim Bolter, Phased Plasma Fusil and Graviton gun in the set. I have no idea if you can contact them and ask for a set with all the same weapons or not, but theirs no parts for the Volkite Charger or Irad-Cleanser yet. For the Destructors you get the Volkite Culverine, Irradiation Engine and Conversion Beamer but no Photon Thruster or Graviton Imploder.
I agree that their release schedule can be a bit bizare and it would certainly be nice to have all the weapon options available for the models they've already released, but I relaly wouldn't say they have a secrecey policy, I mean they've just recently shown off what they'll be working on for the next year or so, that a hell of a lot more than we got from GW main.
Huh. Didn't know that.
Also, by secrecy I meant that you can email them and they give a general non-answer. I like that they do previews of what is coming and all, but it makes planning these (expensive) armies a bit tough sometimes. I don't want to start a project and spend a ton on conversions only to have official models release a week after that. Though I am a perfectionist, so that kinda is my issue.
What annoys me the most is that I have to get one of each instead of being able to buy 3 phased plasma fusil. So, I'm just gonna avoid that unit all together.
mechanicalhorizon wrote: Is it just me, or is scale creep becoming more prevalent in GW models these days?
Everything seems to be getting even bigger, even some of the bases were increased in size for some models.
Aye - At this point we're hard pressed to claim that we're collecting miniatures. We're slowly, but surely, ascending to collecting... Well... Puppets and/or dolls.
Looks like the new guns are for the BaC box, so you can make your heavy weapon squads without needing special arms. Not sure they needed to do the ML, as that’s already in plastic, but it’s nice to have for completeness.
Shoulder mounted lascannon and Proteus pattern missile launchers already exist:
Oh, I'm aware. I have 2 or each sets. I just don't want them to go away for these hip-shot missile launchers...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nevelon wrote: Looks like the new guns are for the BaC box, so you can make your heavy weapon squads without needing special arms. Not sure they needed to do the ML, as that’s already in plastic, but it’s nice to have for completeness.
Shoulder mounted lascannon and Proteus pattern missile launchers already exist:
Oh, I'm aware. I have 2 or each sets. I just don't want them to go away for these hip-shot missile launcher...
The new ones haven't even been released yet so isn't this kinda premature?
Heck, maybe they'll make a matching set of "over the shoulder" weapons to fill out the range, like a shouldered volkite culverin or rotor cannon…
Lascannon is merely ok, not really feeling it.
Missile Launcher is awful and ridiculous.
Plasma cannon looks like he's going to do some serious hoovering!
Rotor cannon? Hell yeah. Easily the best of the bunch.
Personally the hip fired Las-cannons look a treat to me. I'm tempted to pick some up with MKIII for my iron warriors. But in all honesty I don't think I would ever use them. My heay support is always jammed full of tanks. lol
Nevelon wrote: Looks like the new guns are for the BaC box, so you can make your heavy weapon squads without needing special arms. Not sure they needed to do the ML, as that’s already in plastic, but it’s nice to have for completeness.
You would have to buy the box set 5 times to get enough ML to make a 10 man Heavy Support Squad of them.
For people building from the clath box, being able to quickly build a heavy weapon missle squad with these ML or you can put the other style in your vet squads helps alot for building a 30k army quickly with out breaking the bank to drastic.
If you want MKIV with the standard style ML you need to buy the MKIV heavy support squad and then buy the ML's. Haveing ML's that work with the plastics is great!
edit: I just noticed. The didn't glue the hand into the wrist on this model.
I wish they'd done these new missile launchers earlier, so I wouldn't have had to cut a bit off the vane on a Thousand Sons Chaos Marine head to get the shoulder-mounted version to fit.
While we're on the subject of the Missile Launchers, can anyone explain to me why the 30K ones have that weird bit on the back end of them? What actual purpose does it serve?
angelofvengeance wrote: While we're on the subject of the Missile Launchers, can anyone explain to me why the 30K ones have that weird bit on the back end of them? What actual purpose does it serve?
Guess is as good as mine. Stabiliser fins? Or, should the missile get jammed and the launcher takes off, they help it fly straight and true
The space Crusade ones looked more like rocket launchers (or they were, i forgot)
No, I meant Space Crusade.
Since the one's we're all talking about are the ones that are being fired from the hip. Just like Space Crusade.
I wasnt sure if my memories were wrong but after checking Stuff of Legends the original heavy weapon marines were metal. GW released them before or at the time of the first plastic kit. They had at least five poses holding weapons. On the previous pages of the Blue Catalogue (link below) there are also different poses with special weapons among more heavy weapon models. It shows how much modern SM (well it started at the end of first edition) have lost variety of poses and I would love to see more conversions on the tables - if they are well done of course - and FW/GW offering these with their kits.
angelofvengeance wrote: While we're on the subject of the Missile Launchers, can anyone explain to me why the 30K ones have that weird bit on the back end of them? What actual purpose does it serve?
Blast diffuser/deflector? The backblast from some missiles can be a couple of dozen feet long without mitigation of some sort so it makes sense there would be some way to make it not kill the guy behind them.
Hey everyone!
Forge World is back on Facebook.
We've been away for well over a year, so hopefully you've all been busily painting awesome new miniatures and have loads of new stuff to show us.
Post up your pictures on the wall and let us know what you've been working on.
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Oh, as a quick aside, you can ask us rules questions if you like, but we probably don’t know any better than you, and we’re just going to guess...
Finally, if you have a customer service query, or a question about any order made on forgeworld.co.uk, rather than post on our wall or send us a message on Facebook, please get in touch directly with our Customer Service team. We’ll be able to respond much faster that way, and our dedicated staff will be able to help with whatever you need.
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Spoilsports! Can't even link to DakkaDakka.. nice caveat on Rules Questions too..
I'm pretty disappointed by this week's releases being tickets only. Yay tickets for an event across the ocean instead of Warlord titan parts that were available to people at the last event across the ocean weeks ago!
angelofvengeance wrote: While we're on the subject of the Missile Launchers, can anyone explain to me why the 30K ones have that weird bit on the back end of them? What actual purpose does it serve?
It's there because it was there on the RTB01 Missile Launcher, and it's a throwback design point. The purpose is whatever you or they manage to think of.
MELT THROUGH THE OPPOSITION! Last week I was talking about big guns and showed you some new Space Marine weapons that’ll be on their way soon from the Forge World Studio. Apparently those guns, mighty as they are, just weren’t big enough.
The Cyclonic Melta Lance is a new weapon for the Leviathan Dreadnought that’ll be causing havoc on the battlefield soon. It’s a supercharged multi-melta that fires in bursts that will annihilate even the heaviest armour plating.
This immense war machine is carrying a gun bigger than most Titan weapons!
The Ordinatus Saggitar is on my list of wants. I've got a chance of fielding it in a 30k 3,000 point game!
I Swear if that 'Cyclonic Melta Lance' Has the Lance rule and fires more than 1 shot, it will be stupidly OP and make it able to take out Titans
A DREADNOUGHT THAT CAN TAKE OUT TITANS (Does that sound Absurd?)
And if it does, ill be picking up 2
(Leviathan come down in a Drop Pod infront of a Warhound and just goes 'Eh' and blows it up)
commander dante wrote: I Swear if that 'Cyclonic Melta Lance' Has the Lance rule and fires more than 1 shot, it will be stupidly OP and make it able to take out Titans
A DREADNOUGHT THAT CAN TAKE OUT TITANS (Does that sound Absurd?)
And if it does, ill be picking up 2
(Leviathan come down in a Drop Pod infront of a Warhound and just goes 'Eh' and blows it up)
6 shots, or probably D3+3 looking at those barrels!. Possibly D6 because reliability is not a design parameter!
Assuming it is the same as the Warlord, it is a Belicosa Pattern Volcano Cannon. The Shadowsword has a regular Volcano cannon (same as the Reaver can take I believe).
Yaraton wrote: Is Ordinates more like a Titan on tracks or more like a big gun that can also move a bit?
Ordinatus-class weaponry is actually meant to be larger than Titan-class weaponry. An Ordinatus is a mega-weapon of unparalleled power, it's a starship gun on tracks.
Smaller Super-heavy tanks can have titan-class weaponry.
Yaraton wrote: Is Ordinates more like a Titan on tracks or more like a big gun that can also move a bit?
Ordinatus-class weaponry is actually meant to be larger than Titan-class weaponry. An Ordinatus is a mega-weapon of unparalleled power, it's a starship gun on tracks.
Smaller Super-heavy tanks can have titan-class weaponry.
Yeah. The Ordinatus we have a model for, is an 'Ordinatus Minoris'; ie the smallest Ordinatus.
Yaraton wrote: Is Ordinates more like a Titan on tracks or more like a big gun that can also move a bit?
Ordinatus-class weaponry is actually meant to be larger than Titan-class weaponry. An Ordinatus is a mega-weapon of unparalleled power, it's a starship gun on tracks.
Smaller Super-heavy tanks can have titan-class weaponry.
Yeah. The Ordinatus we have a model for, is an 'Ordinatus Minoris'; ie the smallest Ordinatus.
This particular one, with the Bellicosa pattern Volcano Cannon is even the cheapest and easiest to build…
Also, the notion that anything that would take a demolisher cannon or railgun with Tank Hunters to even glance, and which has a further save on top of that, could be called "minor" is hilarious.
Ok, that is just taunting now. "You want the plasma destructor for the Warlord titan that was for sale at our event? How about we take the one existing arm weapon and put it on tracks instead!"
Yaraton wrote: Is Ordinates more like a Titan on tracks or more like a big gun that can also move a bit?
Ordinatus-class weaponry is actually meant to be larger than Titan-class weaponry. An Ordinatus is a mega-weapon of unparalleled power, it's a starship gun on tracks.
Smaller Super-heavy tanks can have titan-class weaponry.
Yeah. The Ordinatus we have a model for, is an 'Ordinatus Minoris'; ie the smallest Ordinatus.
Yaraton wrote: Is Ordinates more like a Titan on tracks or more like a big gun that can also move a bit?
Ordinatus-class weaponry is actually meant to be larger than Titan-class weaponry. An Ordinatus is a mega-weapon of unparalleled power, it's a starship gun on tracks.
Smaller Super-heavy tanks can have titan-class weaponry.
Yeah. The Ordinatus we have a model for, is an 'Ordinatus Minoris'; ie the smallest Ordinatus.
Yep the one in Helsreach mounts a Nova Cannon
Which, for those of you who don't know is something they usually mount on their starships... which is pretty fething huge!
Which, for those of you who don't know is something they usually mount on their starships... which is pretty fething huge!
The rules were pretty good in Epic. You'd charge it up each turn and then release a series of pulses or an all out blast (with a potential -9 save modifier!). I've seen one blast apart an unshielded Imperator Titan in one Game.
It wasn't the same Nova cannon - the naval weapon is about half a mile log and fires an explosive projectile at relativistic speed. The one on Ordinatus Armageddon was a large plasma weapon.
IIRC Ordinatus Oberon had a down-sized Nova Cannon, the same way that a Minigun and the GAU-8 are both Gatling guns. Nova Cannons fire shells that are accelerated to relativistic speeds.
Not that we know of unfortunately. Wouldn't have a clue on price for the Mastodon - probably in the 200+ pound range - but you can expect the Stormbird to be 500+ pounds given that it is larger than a Thunderhawk which costs closer to 400 pounds.
Caederes wrote: Not that we know of unfortunately. Wouldn't have a clue on price for the Mastodon - probably in the 200+ pound range - but you can expect the Stormbird to be 500+ pounds given that it is larger than a Thunderhawk which costs closer to 400 pounds.
Very interesting... I now have the dilemma of choosing solely air transports or ground transports
From my experience with a Thunderhawk is you'll get far more table time with the mastodon, the TH is a bugger to transport and the large base is tricky to place on anything but a sparce table.
I agree with Daston, I hardly use my Thunderhawk compared to my Titans. However the Masterdon is going to be painful to move around on the table based on my experience with the Ordinatus as scenery gets in the way.
Azeroth133 wrote: Looks like the Mechanicum Triaros Armoured Conveyer is No Longer Available.
Wonder if it just need a new mold or if its being replaced with something.
Mechanicum Thanatar-Calix Siege-Automata aswell,
Usually means a new mould. Very unlikely that they'd pull those models.
Azeroth133 wrote: Looks like the Mechanicum Triaros Armoured Conveyer is No Longer Available.
Wonder if it just need a new mold or if its being replaced with something.
Mechanicum Thanatar-Calix Siege-Automata aswell,
Usually means a new mould. Very unlikely that they'd pull those models.
Or they're changing how they're packaged. Same thing happened with the Deimos Rhinos a little while back, they now come in a snazzy white FW box instead of the big bag o' doom.
Azeroth133 wrote: Looks like the Mechanicum Triaros Armoured Conveyer is No Longer Available.
Wonder if it just need a new mold or if its being replaced with something.
Mechanicum Thanatar-Calix Siege-Automata aswell,
Usually means a new mould. Very unlikely that they'd pull those models.
Or they're changing how they're packaged. Same thing happened with the Deimos Rhinos a little while back, they now come in a snazzy white FW box instead of the big bag o' doom.
I hope that becomes the norm. Those bags are the worst idea! Delicate, fragile fiddly resin pieces getting to bash together in a bag. Of course, a box is worse if it isn't in there with padding... so...
Azeroth133 wrote: Looks like the Mechanicum Triaros Armoured Conveyer is No Longer Available.
Wonder if it just need a new mold or if its being replaced with something.
Mechanicum Thanatar-Calix Siege-Automata aswell,
Usually means a new mould. Very unlikely that they'd pull those models.
Or they're changing how they're packaged. Same thing happened with the Deimos Rhinos a little while back, they now come in a snazzy white FW box instead of the big bag o' doom.
I hope that becomes the norm. Those bags are the worst idea! Delicate, fragile fiddly resin pieces getting to bash together in a bag. Of course, a box is worse if it isn't in there with padding... so...
More importantly the instructions that come in the new packaging are actual instructions, with exploded 3D diagrams and highlighted glue surfaces and everything, compared to the baggie version which is a leaflet with a parts list and a single grainy picture.
That seems to be for the newer, digitally-sculpted models; because it's easy to use the digital images themselves to generate the instructions.
Still, could be worse; the Horus Heresy Character Series models have a link to an online PDF of the instructions - which no longer works since the website revamp. Assembling Draykavac was a massive pain in the derriere.
AndrewGPaul wrote: That seems to be for the newer, digitally-sculpted models; because it's easy to use the digital images themselves to generate the instructions.
Still, could be worse; the Horus Heresy Character Series models have a link to an online PDF of the instructions - which no longer works since the website revamp. Assembling Draykavac was a massive pain in the derriere.
Great to hear. I have Dray on my table for an upcoming project. :(
AlmightyWalrus wrote: IIRC Ordinatus Oberon had a down-sized Nova Cannon, the same way that a Minigun and the GAU-8 are both Gatling guns. Nova Cannons fire shells that are accelerated to relativistic speeds.
Which one's Oberon? I was referring to one of the three original Ordinatus with Epic-scale miniatures and rules. Or is Lexicanum in error and the one used at Helsreach in the third war was different to the one used in the first war?
AlmightyWalrus wrote: IIRC Ordinatus Oberon had a down-sized Nova Cannon, the same way that a Minigun and the GAU-8 are both Gatling guns. Nova Cannons fire shells that are accelerated to relativistic speeds.
Which one's Oberon? I was referring to one of the three original Ordinatus with Epic-scale miniatures and rules. Or is Lexicanum in error and the one used at Helsreach in the third war was different to the one used in the first war?
Ordinatus Armageddon was called Oberon in Helsreach.
AndrewGPaul wrote: That seems to be for the newer, digitally-sculpted models; because it's easy to use the digital images themselves to generate the instructions.
Still, could be worse; the Horus Heresy Character Series models have a link to an online PDF of the instructions - which no longer works since the website revamp. Assembling Draykavac was a massive pain in the derriere.
I didn't really have any issues assembling him. The abeyant is only a few parts and you can tell from 2 pics on the FW site where everything is supposed to go. The only minor hangup was a couple of the long cables didn't want to fit properly so I used a hair dryer to heat them up and bend them a different way.
AndrewGPaul wrote: That seems to be for the newer, digitally-sculpted models; because it's easy to use the digital images themselves to generate the instructions.
Still, could be worse; the Horus Heresy Character Series models have a link to an online PDF of the instructions - which no longer works since the website revamp. Assembling Draykavac was a massive pain in the derriere.
I didn't really have any issues assembling him. The abeyant is only a few parts and you can tell from 2 pics on the FW site where everything is supposed to go. The only minor hangup was a couple of the long cables didn't want to fit properly so I used a hair dryer to heat them up and bend them a different way.
I still have no idea where those cables go. And I built the model last week.
How would you like to add a Titan to your collection? Well, we’ve got four incredible god-machines to give away! We’re giving you the chance to win one of two Warhound Titans; a Reaver Titan; or even a Warlord Titan.
You read that correctly; you can win a colossal Warlord Titan!
This is our biggest giveaway ever! Next month you could be putting an earth shattering, army crushing Titan on the battlefield, armed with the weapons of your choice. So don’t miss your chance!
To enter, place an order of £100 or more on forgeworld.co.uk between 4th March and 31st March 2016. Then complete the following statements, and email your answers to us at win-a-titan@gwplc.com:
Choose a name for your Titan.
In 400 words or less, tell us how your Titan earned its glorious or infamous name.
Please include your order number as the subject line of your email.
The Forge World Panel of Judgment are eagerly awaiting your responses, and are ready to award each of the four finest with a towering Titan!
Terms & Conditions apply; please see below for details and a full list of prizes.
Bah. Given that there is no choice for the new Warlord weapons, just dual Belicosas, are they not going to be released in March? Weren't they for sale at the HH event?
Would have been cool if you could choose the Mars Beta or Lucius heads for the Warlord as well, given that it is a contest.
I like this part "Multiple entries are permitted." the most. The most annoying part is that I will have to come up with multiple "stories" for the Titan names. I bet they are pooling the ideas to use them later in the FW books.
Pretty cool giveaway.. even if I laugh when they say "biggest prizes ever" when the Warlord probably costs like 200$ to make. (based on reseller prices anyway)
Patience chap. You don't need to keep banging on and on about Warlord Weapons, that's the 5th time you've posted that over the last few pages. They'll appear in good time.
I'm a bit curious about the story of the name. Are we supposed to name the titan we want to win, one we already have, or any sort of titan? Could I use the name and story behind my epic Emperor Titan?
Patience chap. You don't need to keep banging on and on about Warlord Weapons, that's the 5th time you've posted that over the last few pages. They'll appear in good time.
Well, my Warlord is currently missing one of his arms thanks to the wait. And FW keeps taunting me- "We have them for sale, but only in person across the Atlantic from any Yanks"
"Heres some other Mechanicum stuff"
"How about we show off a titan weapon mounted on an ordinatus?"
"Contest to win a free titan, except not the new parts!"
Kirasu wrote: Pretty cool giveaway.. even if I laugh when they say "biggest prizes ever" when the Warlord probably costs like 200$ to make. (based on reseller prices anyway)
Maybe they mean tallest...
and $200 to make of resin is not the same as $200 to develop and then make out of resin....
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'm a bit curious about the story of the name. Are we supposed to name the titan we want to win, one we already have, or any sort of titan? Could I use the name and story behind my epic Emperor Titan?
To be entered into the competition, you must:
Place an order on the Forge World web store of at least £100 (excluding Virtual Gift Vouchers and shipping costs) between 01:00 4th March 2016 (GMT) and 23:59 31st March 2016 (GMT); and
You must email your answers to the following statements to win-a-titan@gwplc.com. Please include your order number only in the subject line of your email. Emails must be received by 23:59 3rd April 2016 (GMT) to be considered.
ii (a) Choose a name for your Titan.
ii (b) In 400 words or less, tell us how your Titan earned its glorious or infamous name.
Wow...I finally get ready to make my once-every-two-years Forgeworld order and I see they have this contest! I get excited! Then I get depressed because for some reason I'm disqualified because I live in Colorado.
Screw you FW!!!
Now take my money anyway! I didn't want your smelly 'ol Titan!
Kirasu wrote: Pretty cool giveaway.. even if I laugh when they say "biggest prizes ever" when the Warlord probably costs like 200$ to make. (based on reseller prices anyway)
Safe to say it cost way more than that when you include the salaries of the artist developing the concepts, the sculptor, the graphic designers making promotional art, instruction, the casters, etc...
Kirasu wrote: Pretty cool giveaway.. even if I laugh when they say "biggest prizes ever" when the Warlord probably costs like 200$ to make. (based on reseller prices anyway)
Safe to say it cost way more than that when you include the salaries of the artist developing the concepts, the sculptor, the graphic designers making promotional art, instruction, the casters, etc...
That was true at some point, but I'd think they'd at least have made back their initial investment for the Warhound and maybe the Reaver by now.
godswildcard wrote: Wow...I finally get ready to make my once-every-two-years Forgeworld order and I see they have this contest! I get excited! Then I get depressed because for some reason I'm disqualified because I live in Colorado.
Screw you FW!!!
Now take my money anyway! I didn't want your smelly 'ol Titan!
godswildcard wrote: Wow...I finally get ready to make my once-every-two-years Forgeworld order and I see they have this contest! I get excited! Then I get depressed because for some reason I'm disqualified because I live in Colorado.
Screw you FW!!!
Now take my money anyway! I didn't want your smelly 'ol Titan!
Lol, why are those few areas in the US excluded?
Individual state laws governing legality of contests. Some don't allow contests where you must purchase something to win.
godswildcard wrote: Wow...I finally get ready to make my once-every-two-years Forgeworld order and I see they have this contest! I get excited! Then I get depressed because for some reason I'm disqualified because I live in Colorado.
Screw you FW!!!
Now take my money anyway! I didn't want your smelly 'ol Titan!
Lol, why are those few areas in the US excluded?
I dunno, check if they plumped for Trump in the primaries?
Is it me, or would be one of the new style A4 decal sheets with all sorts of Chaos runes, symbols, sigls etc be a hugely useful thing right now?
There's some awesome stuff on the WB sheet, so more of that plus some god specific runes, unaligned stars etc.. Not in the god awful primary colors like the CSM sheets either.
Or, heck, one for each God.
Anyone recall anything from an event or a rumor that's slipped my mind?
godswildcard wrote: Wow...I finally get ready to make my once-every-two-years Forgeworld order and I see they have this contest! I get excited! Then I get depressed because for some reason I'm disqualified because I live in Colorado.
Screw you FW!!!
Now take my money anyway! I didn't want your smelly 'ol Titan!
Lol, why are those few areas in the US excluded?
Individual state laws governing legality of contests. Some don't allow contests where you must purchase something to win.
That's because a contest that requires you to buy something to enter is not a contest its a raffle which is gambling, and in this case its online gambling which is highly regulated in some areas.
The cynic in me thinks this contest means there won't be much in the way of cool new releases this month, hence the need for a contest to drum up sales.
I'd go that they've got something they know is going to sell boat loads under wraps for a few weeks time, so they're running this comp to encourage people to place an order, and then feel compelled to place another one when whatever it is gets announced.
Wha.... is this the first one of these new patterns of dreadnoughts FW has created? A.. con..temp.tor? Awesome, so excited to see what this looks like!
we had pictures of the completed models from open day a month ago. It's nice that they are finally catching up and releasing some of the kits from then.
Onto the comments now about titan weapons and meh another space marine release what about some xeno love
I hope this doesn't release while the titan competition is still going because then I would have a very good excuse to spend 100 pounds on more glorious resin...
Thats ok by me. The books won't have recycled artwork and that way they focus on the miniatures (or at least the guys who do the artwork are busy enough on the next books).
What is included in the Legion Astartes: Crusade Army List red book? From posts in this thread it seems to be everything from books 1-5, including legion rules, characters, special units, etc. all updated with errata and changes, as well as some new material like Iron Circle (but otherwise excluding the relics found in book 4), however the books page on the FW site makes it seem like it only includes material fromm books 1-3.
Also, is the red book worth buying at all or will it be invalidated/updated in 8 months when Book 7 drops (not that its fully up to date as it is, since its mysteriously absent the info from book 6 even though it was (re?)released at the same time)? Is forgeworld taking a "codex" approach with these books, updating them every x often, or are they going to take more of a "volume" approach (considering the book is called "crusade" army lists even though by book 6 we have seemed to moved beyond the era of great crusade style organization and into the realm of "heresy" style organization within the legions, evidenced by blackshields and shattered legions rules)?
Sod that. I can wait a little while...
) Never gonna clear my backlog at this rate
Pity it's a piece of crap ingame.
