Orks are higgledypiggledy. Since their inception they’ve been a riot of cobbled together gubbins.
If you don't know the difference of concept and poorly executed concept sculpt then its not me who needs help, but this is where I stop with the silly debate.
You love it great buy it I don't so I save money to something else period.
That is one awesome looking mini, I've been tempted for a little while to have an Ork army after my ad mech and I think this has sealed the deal.
I both like and dislike the head. It's got a really cool "Ork in da Iron Mask" vibe but also I kind of would like just a regular orky face with maybe a monocle and a mask.
I don't understand how people cannot love that helmet.
For years people have been Kitbashing Orks with Black Orc helmets and we finally have an official model that has that aesthetic. I kind of hope that we get more Ork models with these type of helmets.
I'm torn. I like the design aesthetic of the new Vampire Counts. Those are some amazing models, but I can see how theses new models clash with my existing army.
The Ork looks great. Easily my favorite of the new releases. He's got that Mad Max style that the Snagga sculpts have really lacked. Really like the Bucket helmet.
Nice model, but AOS already has like loads of centaur types and he doesn't really have his own aesthetic and that army with him in looks a bit hodgepodge tbh.
God, these Vamptaurs are hideous. The upper halves are solid but they just look tacked onto the lower part. It just doesn't work at all.
Kragnos, on the other hand, is a believable centaur. Nothing super exciting, but solid and without any silly design twists, which is a lot to ask for these days.
People are going to need bigger hobby rooms for so many nice gigantic miniatures. Most god level characters are cool but I kind of prefer the little guys.
Vamp stuff is great apart from the Centaur-Vampire thing. I just can’t get over how stupid it must look when flying I like the rest a lot though.
Kragnos? Meh. Looks more like a Chaos model and nothing else in the Destruction alliance looks like it goes with him. I know that’s kinda the point but he just doesn’t do much for me.
BertBert wrote: God, these Vamptaurs are hideous. The upper halves are solid but they just look tacked onto the lower part. It just doesn't work at all.
Agreed. I really like the top halves, but I don't need a legless vampire with a giant bat monster stuck up their bum.
The Phazer wrote: Nice model, but AOS already has like loads of centaur types and he doesn't really have his own aesthetic and that army with him in looks a bit hodgepodge tbh.
Doesn't help that everything else in focus are all older sculpts, and none with updated paintjobs to make them more coherent as his followers.
That said, he definitely looks like he belongs more with the Beasts of Chaos, like a new warlord that unlocks Centigors as Battleline.
BertBert wrote: God, these Vamptaurs are hideous. The upper halves are solid but they just look tacked onto the lower part. It just doesn't work at all.
Kragnos, on the other hand, is a believable centaur. Nothing super exciting, but solid and without any silly design twists, which is a lot to ask for these days.
I honestly have a hard time imagining the Centaur-Bat-Vampire-thing in flight mode without its extremities constantly getting in its own way.
We at least the dire wolves look good. The rest look like lazy kitbashes of normal vampire models cut in half and glued on top of werebat models where their heads should be.
Edit: Oh Kragnos does look very nice. Good job there GW.
I really like Kragnos, they screw up so many big minis, so it's nice to see one they didn't.
I don't know that the new vampire models are all that great, but I do like the overall new faction design. The Cossack vampires and their undead minions as an idea and look works well.
The Phazer wrote: Nice model, but AOS already has like loads of centaur types and he doesn't really have his own aesthetic and that army with him in looks a bit hodgepodge tbh.
Doesn't help that everything else in focus are all older sculpts, and none with updated paintjobs to make them more coherent as his followers.
That said, he definitely looks like he belongs more with the Beasts of Chaos, like a new warlord that unlocks Centigors as Battleline.
Centigors surprisingly didn't go the way of the Tomb Kings as metal/resin models.
Not really surprised, actually. Next will be the sisters.
At least, the new Dire Wolves are gorgeous.
I laughed at the comments when they revealed the mobile game. "Do you guys not have phones ?" Ah, that was pure gold. Good thing they swiftly moved to the next video afterwards. And honestly, the reaction was completely deserved here. A fething mobile game that smells of predatory microtransactions..."auto-battlers", ugh.
I think Kragnos will be like Nagash. He (and his Morghasts) looked unlike anything from the Grand Alliance Death back when he was released, and a couple of years later he got his own faction in his image with the Ossiarch Bonereapers.
In that army shot for Soulblight it looked like there were some new skeletons in the upper right of the picture, up on the ridge. Could be an alternate build of the new kit maybe? It was only on the screen pretty quickly.
Also: The Dire Wolves are great and will find a home in my Mordheim band.
BertBert wrote: God, these Vamptaurs are hideous. The upper halves are solid but they just look tacked onto the lower part. It just doesn't work at all.
Kragnos, on the other hand, is a believable centaur. Nothing super exciting, but solid and without any silly design twists, which is a lot to ask for these days.
I honestly have a hard time imagining the Centaur-Bat-Vampire-thing in flight mode without its extremities constantly getting in its own way.
Sabotage! wrote: In that army shot for Soulblight it looked like there were some new skeletons in the upper right of the picture, up on the ridge. Could be an alternate build of the new kit maybe? It was only on the screen pretty quickly.
I think they are just Grave Guard as the old kit carries over. The Corpse cart, Zombie dragon and Vargheists are up there too.
Haven't even lifted an eyebrow so far.
Kragnos - AoS's "wants to be everything, yet fails everywhere miserably" incarnation. Trash looking model.
Vampires - yeah, cool. Until I saw their lower halves. The other ones are quite ok, I guess? Though I'd like to see them not tie so hardly to this pseudo vampire/Kislev thing.
Dire Volves - Crow is nice. Definitely wins the show.
Soul Arena - yet another example why GW must not handle their IP to everyone.
Sabotage! wrote: In that army shot for Soulblight it looked like there were some new skeletons in the upper right of the picture, up on the ridge. Could be an alternate build of the new kit maybe? It was only on the screen pretty quickly.
I think they are just Grave Guard as the old kit carries over. The Corpse cart, Zombie dragon and Vargheists are up there too.
Could be, though they looked a little different than what I am used to. Maybe a kit bash.
Edit: Looking at it a little closer I have no idea what they are. They are two infantry miniatures on the cliff above the corpse cart.
They said we've seen all the new kits for Soulblight Gravelords as of today, so I wouldn't speculate about there being some unseen skellie kit or something.
stahly wrote: I think Kragnos will be like Nagash. He (and his Morghasts) looked unlike anything from the Grand Alliance Death back when he was released, and a couple of years later he got his own faction in his image with the Ossiarch Bonereapers.
Yeah, had a similar impression. He also looks related to the Chaos Ogroids, who apparently were formerly Destruction before getting kicked out? Would fit with him having 'lost his people' etc. during his imprisonment. Didn't follow the twitch talk though, just checking out the videos on the new website + reading lore tidbits on the web.
Kragnos - AoS's "wants to be everything, yet fails everywhere miserably" incarnation. Trash looking model.
People always like to do exaggerated hyperboles for things they don't like. I'm not that interested into him, but it's not a trash model at all. It's just a giant centaur with horns, and it is honestly well done.
Vamp stuff is fine but becoming awfully bloated with named special characters - trying to push the new bloodlines hard I guess. The fact they're connected to Cursed City also makes it a giant slap in the face so, not the best idea GW.
Centaur Vamps are...awkward.
Dire Wolves - another bizarre surprise. Both them and the Skeletons seem a bit ...unneccessary as their kits are relatively new compared to the core infantry of a lot of other armies. (Seriously, Saurus, Skinks, Chaos Warriors and Marauders are all pushing 2 decades now. Skeletons and Dire Wolves were literally less than a decade old.)
Kragnos - eh. He seriously seems like he belongs with a Beasts of Chaos army more than Destruction. He doesn't have any real destruction elements but has an awful lot of Beasts elements to him.
A small reveal today and I can honestly say, I'm not terribly impressed.
The Soulblight releases - some are necessary - Zombies, Fellbats, Blood Knights - all well and good. Even the redone Wight King is nice.
But the flood of constant named character vampires (we're on, what, 5 or 6 now?) is ridiculous when there's some armies with a single named character (Seraphon, DoK, Gloomspite) and some without a single one (Beasts, Ogors, Cities of Sigmar) - and it's not like they DIDN'T have an abundance of named characters before.
Eh. Can't say I'm terribly impressed. Every faction most certainly didn't get it's day in the spotlight - unless you're Cities of Sigmar and then you're just gonna get new rules with every book it seems.
Signum Games, Magic the Gathering and a few others (that I don't recall) have done centaur winged beasts. If anything the vampire is superior as she's got forelegs (mid limbs) as wings whilst the others tend to have a full on four legged body, then wings, then an upper human body (8 limbs in all).
It likely flies about as well as a wyvern with a long neck.
And yeah vampires with wolves and terrorghast and and yeah I might end up with vampires at one point.....
Dire Wolves - another bizarre surprise. Both them and the Skeletons seem a bit ...unneccessary as their kits are relatively new compared to the core infantry of a lot of other armies. (Seriously, Saurus, Skinks, Chaos Warriors and Marauders are all pushing 2 decades now. Skeletons and Dire Wolves were literally less than a decade old.)
It's a surprise for sure, but it's not bizarre. It's good. Honestly, the previous Dire Wolves kit was just...well, true garbage. The miniatures were just Frankenstein monsters in a bad way, not reanimated corpses of giant wolves.
And skeletons...well, at least this new kit has much more character. I'm tempted to use them as new grave guards, actually.
Right the things I need to get in the future since they have so many uses are...
New dire wolves, skeletons and giant bats... maybe get just the individual small vampires characters since their sculpts are so elegant!
Zombies I think GW could have done a lot better but overall what a great army revamp we got.
The more uncommon big centre piece vampires I think they have potential they are well sculpted around the ruins and are very warhammerish but its just to big of an investment.
Big meh overall. And what is with this Cossack aesthetic all of a sudden after trying to get away from real world ethnic references since day 1 of AoS.
Sabotage! wrote: In that army shot for Soulblight it looked like there were some new skeletons in the upper right of the picture, up on the ridge. Could be an alternate build of the new kit maybe? It was only on the screen pretty quickly.
I think they are just Grave Guard as the old kit carries over. The Corpse cart, Zombie dragon and Vargheists are up there too.
No, those aren't grave guard, its the new skeleton kit, not even alt build from the look of it jest more bare heads.
lord_blackfang wrote: Big meh overall. And what is with this Cossack aesthetic all of a sudden after trying to get away from real world ethnic references since day 1 of AoS.
I think with the new characters revealed its clear to me that cursed city was to be sold side by side with this army as a complement/expansion. Cossacks and wolf heavy themed vampires, zombies and skellies are very consistently themed across both releases.
The weird half vampire half vorgulf model cracks me up.
It's like the designer made two amazing and seperate models and GW told them they only have the production capacity for 1 so he just loped the legs of the gal and the head off the beast and mashed them together.
You can even see in the design that her entire portion is a seperate assembly.
meaning all you need to do is find her some legs (or sculpt your own dress from GS)
and take any left over Crypt fiend head and bang you have two great models again lol.
Red Corsair wrote: The weird half vampire half vorgulf model cracks me up.
It's like the designer made two amazing and seperate models and GW told them they only have the production capacity for 1 so he just loped the legs of the gal and the head off the beast and mashed them together.
Red Corsair wrote: The weird half vampire half vorgulf model cracks me up.
It's like the designer made two amazing and seperate models and GW told them they only have the production capacity for 1 so he just loped the legs of the gal and the head off the beast and mashed them together.
You can even see in the design that her entire portion is a seperate assembly.
meaning all you need to do is find her some legs (or sculpt your own dress from GS)
and take any left over Crypt fiend head and bang you have two great models again lol.
The problem would be the scale since if you Greenstuff the lower half she would be something like a giant vampire. Like I say I find the small vampire characters that they have done so much better.
Red Corsair wrote: The weird half vampire half vorgulf model cracks me up.
It's like the designer made two amazing and seperate models and GW told them they only have the production capacity for 1 so he just loped the legs of the gal and the head off the beast and mashed them together.
You can even see in the design that her entire portion is a seperate assembly.
meaning all you need to do is find her some legs (or sculpt your own dress from GS)
and take any left over Crypt fiend head and bang you have two great models again lol.
More like they told them that the models had to be unique and weird enough so that they can slap people with C&Ds when they make similar models. GW can’t trademark vampires and were bats, but they can try to trademark the result when you put the upper half of a vampire where a werebat’s head should be.
The vampire monsters perfectly encapsulate everything that is usually wrong with centaurs; they're an anatomically implausible ridiculous combination of two creatures that do not seem to fit together at all. And its a real shame, as the upper bodies are great. I wonder where I could get normal legs in proper scale for them...
But despite my centaur allergy,, I find myself rather liking Kragnos. He actually looks like a complete creature, definitely a best centaur GW has ever made. Also the ancient bronze gubbins are really nice. But as many posters have already noted, he doesn't visually connect to anything in the Destruction faction'; he looks more like he should go with Beast of Chaos.
Red Corsair wrote: The weird half vampire half vorgulf model cracks me up.
It's like the designer made two amazing and seperate models and GW told them they only have the production capacity for 1 so he just loped the legs of the gal and the head off the beast and mashed them together.
You can even see in the design that her entire portion is a seperate assembly.
That's because you can make either the female Lauka Vai or the male Vengorian Lord from the single kit.
Cool: Radukar the beast
Old Lady vamp on a wolf
Dire wolves
Meh: Kragnos, another excuse to charge 200 beans for one
model , doesn’t really fit the group they chose for him, nice
fig, though I wouldn’t buy it.
WTF?: those vampire centaur things, fugly
Who cares: stupid chibi mobile game
LOL... Well so much for a new Zombie Dragon. Lauka Vai looks ridiculous! Why does she have a loincloth for her dragon parts? Does any other Dragon mini cover its junk?
Really disliking how character heavy Soulblight are, and how they seem to just be a rehash of old Vampire Counts, minus the ghosts, but with Vampires that are also half werewolf. I was hoping they would lean more into the Blood Knight theme (the new Blood Knights look amazing, but I also already have four units of the old Blood Knights, so...) and go for a more elite army. Was thinking generic Blood Knight style lords and heroes, maybe a blood knight inspired infantry kit ("Vampires-at-arms"?), and bat-monsters for support (the new bats also look amazing, but don't fit with the ones I already own, so I need to figure out what to do there). Instead they just put out more zombies and skellies that I have no interest in. The Wight King on Horse looks incredible though, probably going to pick one up even though it doesn't really fit with my army, also one of only two generic heroes being released (the other being the semi-meh vampire lord mini). Correction - three generics, forgot about the Vengari Lord or whatever its called, don't hate the centaur dragon-bat look, but I don't know that I entirely like it either, will probably pick one up. The Crimson Court had me real excited for the potential of vampiric blood knight infantry though.
NAVARRO wrote: zombies and skellies are very consistently themed across both releases.
Sabotage! wrote: In that army shot for Soulblight it looked like there were some new skeletons in the upper right of the picture, up on the ridge. Could be an alternate build of the new kit maybe? It was only on the screen pretty quickly.
I think they are just Grave Guard as the old kit carries over. The Corpse cart, Zombie dragon and Vargheists are up there too.
No, those aren't grave guard, its the new skeleton kit, not even alt build from the look of it jest more bare heads.
Ah, right you are. I hadn't really taken a close look at the new kit and didn't realize the small differences from the Cursed City ones.
Sersi wrote: LOL... Well so much for a new Zombie Dragon.
I believe this is still a likely release down the line, as it is rather prominently featured on the cover of the battletome. Same as the Dire Wolves, really.
chaos0xomega wrote: Really disliking how character heavy Soulblight are, and how they seem to just be a rehash of old Vampire Counts, minus the ghosts, but with Vampires that are also half werewolf. I was hoping they would lean more into the Blood Knight theme (the new Blood Knights look amazing, but I also already have four units of the old Blood Knights, so...) and go for a more elite army. Was thinking generic Blood Knight style lords and heroes, maybe a blood knight inspired infantry kit ("Vampires-at-arms"?), and bat-monsters for support (the new bats also look amazing, but don't fit with the ones I already own, so I need to figure out what to do there). Instead they just put out more zombies and skellies that I have no interest in. The Wight King on Horse looks incredible though, probably going to pick one up even though it doesn't really fit with my army, also one of only two generic heroes being released (the other being the semi-meh vampire lord mini). Correction - three generics, forgot about the Vengari Lord or whatever its called, don't hate the centaur dragon-bat look, but I don't know that I entirely like it either, will probably pick one up. The Crimson Court had me real excited for the potential of vampiric blood knight infantry though.
I think they want to avoid having rank and file 'mook' vampires, they want all vampires to be really powerful and scary, so they're mostly characters. I agree with this direction.
Red Corsair wrote: The weird half vampire half vorgulf model cracks me up.
It's like the designer made two amazing and seperate models and GW told them they only have the production capacity for 1 so he just loped the legs of the gal and the head off the beast and mashed them together.
You can even see in the design that her entire portion is a seperate assembly.
meaning all you need to do is find her some legs (or sculpt your own dress from GS)
and take any left over Crypt fiend head and bang you have two great models again lol.
No, I don't think you can save the top half of the model. Look at the turnaround her human torso is 2-3 times the thickness of a human. She'd have to been a female ogor before being turned. I might still get one though as something cool can still be converted out of the bestial parts.
A crypt fiend head is going to be to small for that body, maybe a spare dread abyssal head from the Mortarch kit.
chaos0xomega wrote: Really disliking how character heavy Soulblight are, and how they seem to just be a rehash of old Vampire Counts, minus the ghosts, but with Vampires that are also half werewolf. I was hoping they would lean more into the Blood Knight theme (the new Blood Knights look amazing, but I also already have four units of the old Blood Knights, so...) and go for a more elite army. Was thinking generic Blood Knight style lords and heroes, maybe a blood knight inspired infantry kit ("Vampires-at-arms"?), and bat-monsters for support (the new bats also look amazing, but don't fit with the ones I already own, so I need to figure out what to do there). Instead they just put out more zombies and skellies that I have no interest in. The Wight King on Horse looks incredible though, probably going to pick one up even though it doesn't really fit with my army, also one of only two generic heroes being released (the other being the semi-meh vampire lord mini). Correction - three generics, forgot about the Vengari Lord or whatever its called, don't hate the centaur dragon-bat look, but I don't know that I entirely like it either, will probably pick one up. The Crimson Court had me real excited for the potential of vampiric blood knight infantry though.
I think they want to avoid having rank and file 'mook' vampires, they want all vampires to be really powerful and scary, so they're mostly characters. I agree with this direction.
If they can have rank and file 'mook' vampires on horses (Blood Knights), they can have rank and file 'mook' vampires on foot.
As it stands, they've created the concept of actual mook vampires already with the introduction of those bizarre dwarf-children wolf-vampire things that are accompanying Radukar, plus the trio of teen-wolf vampires from Cursed City.
chaos0xomega wrote: Really disliking how character heavy Soulblight are, and how they seem to just be a rehash of old Vampire Counts, minus the ghosts, but with Vampires that are also half werewolf. I was hoping they would lean more into the Blood Knight theme (the new Blood Knights look amazing, but I also already have four units of the old Blood Knights, so...) and go for a more elite army. Was thinking generic Blood Knight style lords and heroes, maybe a blood knight inspired infantry kit ("Vampires-at-arms"?), and bat-monsters for support (the new bats also look amazing, but don't fit with the ones I already own, so I need to figure out what to do there). Instead they just put out more zombies and skellies that I have no interest in. The Wight King on Horse looks incredible though, probably going to pick one up even though it doesn't really fit with my army, also one of only two generic heroes being released (the other being the semi-meh vampire lord mini). Correction - three generics, forgot about the Vengari Lord or whatever its called, don't hate the centaur dragon-bat look, but I don't know that I entirely like it either, will probably pick one up. The Crimson Court had me real excited for the potential of vampiric blood knight infantry though.
I think they want to avoid having rank and file 'mook' vampires, they want all vampires to be really powerful and scary, so they're mostly characters. I agree with this direction.
Agreed, they needed to keep the Vampires special. We already have two non-character vampire units in Vargheists and Blood Knights. Although the cynic in me thinks GW just wants that sweet special character money.
But the flood of constant named character vampires (we're on, what, 5 or 6 now?) is ridiculous when there's some armies with a single named character (Seraphon, DoK, Gloomspite) and some without a single one (Beasts, Ogors, Cities of Sigmar) - and it's not like they DIDN'T have an abundance of named characters before.
FEC don't have any named character unless you count the Direchasm band.
If they wanted that? All of the characters would have been clamshell sized rather than monster. I'm ballparking around 400pts each on these characters.
So they didn't slip a plastic varghulf into the army.....bummer. This army seems too focused on named characters for my liking. As opposed to having my own generic leaders that I create my own lore for.
Thargrim wrote: So they didn't slip a plastic varghulf into the army.....bummer. This army seems too focused on named characters for my liking. As opposed to having my own generic leaders that I create my own lore for.
To me after reading all the comments about splitting them.
If you look at her waist up only, yeah just looks like a normal vampire.
And the bottom half literally has shoulders that come in to the waist.
Should easily be able to make that two models if the skirt piece doesn’t attach to the shoulders of the beast too badly..
Danny76 wrote: To me after reading all the comments about splitting them.
If you look at her waist up only, yeah just looks like a normal vampire.
And the bottom half literally has shoulders that come in to the waist.
Should easily be able to make that two models if the skirt piece doesn’t attach to the shoulders of the beast too badly..
Yeah, that's kind of the only fix I see to that model: find a decent head ad two sets of legs suitable.
Thargrim wrote: So they didn't slip a plastic varghulf into the army.....bummer. This army seems too focused on named characters for my liking. As opposed to having my own generic leaders that I create my own lore for.
Thargrim wrote: So they didn't slip a plastic varghulf into the army.....bummer. This army seems too focused on named characters for my liking. As opposed to having my own generic leaders that I create my own lore for.
The Varghulf is a FEC unit now.
Except the one in Cursed City that's Soulblight but comes bundled with 500 points of other crap.
Thargrim wrote: So they didn't slip a plastic varghulf into the army.....bummer. This army seems too focused on named characters for my liking. As opposed to having my own generic leaders that I create my own lore for.
The Varghulf is a FEC unit now.
Except the one in Cursed City that's Soulblight but comes bundled with 500 points of other crap.
Love the Dire Wolves and Blood Knights, hopefully they can rank up decently. I'm a bit worried the Blood Knights will be 9ft tall like the Characters.
Zombies remain a complete failure due to their static poses, a horde of these will look terrible on the table. I don't understand the design philosophy, surely some more variance/poseability would sell more boxes. What's the downside? I would have bought 4 boxes of these, instead I'll buy zero and go 3rd party or convert.
Skeletons aesthetic is very nice, but again the poses just kill it for me. They look like they're dancing to 'Thriller'.
Don't care about the rest, zero interest in Centaur-Vampires or Wolf-Vampires who ride wolves. Typical AoS overkill.
Thargrim wrote: So they didn't slip a plastic varghulf into the army.....bummer. This army seems too focused on named characters for my liking. As opposed to having my own generic leaders that I create my own lore for.
The Varghulf is a FEC unit now.
Except the one in Cursed City that's Soulblight but comes bundled with 500 points of other crap.
My god those vamtaurs or whatever you can call it are shocking terrible. When I saw the blood knights a while back and the varghskyr in cursed city I was mighty impressed.
I thought teclis was bad. I thought the cow people and cow head warriors were bad... These make them look like the sistine chapel in comparison. Yieks..
chaos0xomega wrote: Really disliking how character heavy Soulblight are, and how they seem to just be a rehash of old Vampire Counts, minus the ghosts, but with Vampires that are also half werewolf. I was hoping they would lean more into the Blood Knight theme (the new Blood Knights look amazing, but I also already have four units of the old Blood Knights, so...) and go for a more elite army. Was thinking generic Blood Knight style lords and heroes, maybe a blood knight inspired infantry kit ("Vampires-at-arms"?), and bat-monsters for support (the new bats also look amazing, but don't fit with the ones I already own, so I need to figure out what to do there). Instead they just put out more zombies and skellies that I have no interest in. The Wight King on Horse looks incredible though, probably going to pick one up even though it doesn't really fit with my army, also one of only two generic heroes being released (the other being the semi-meh vampire lord mini). Correction - three generics, forgot about the Vengari Lord or whatever its called, don't hate the centaur dragon-bat look, but I don't know that I entirely like it either, will probably pick one up. The Crimson Court had me real excited for the potential of vampiric blood knight infantry though.
I think they want to avoid having rank and file 'mook' vampires, they want all vampires to be really powerful and scary, so they're mostly characters. I agree with this direction.
You know for me personally all the characters revealed today are not as scary as these ones:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I find that the road to make all minis huge display pieces a trap sometimes. Sure the new half vampire half centaur have some amazing technical things going on there but I would rather have one of the above as my vampire of choice. In this particular case less is more.
Kragnos is one way to escape the self-inflicted dead end of "Gorkamorka as only god of Destruction", even if he looks like 54mm centaur, not a 32mm monster. Pretty bland, but nothing technically wrong with him. I guess he'll let you soup orcs and ogres judging by the battle scene.
Vampires...dire wolves continue the tradition of being dire models, GW can barely do a living wolf right, so making them dead only compounds the issue.
The vampire-drakes are a bizarre choice, as it literally looks like someone transplanted a torso onto a dragon body.
Wolf grandma is ok, radukar looks kinda bad.
Bit annoying how special-char heavy the army seems to be.
Thargrim wrote: So they didn't slip a plastic varghulf into the army.....bummer. This army seems too focused on named characters for my liking. As opposed to having my own generic leaders that I create my own lore for.
The Varghulf is a FEC unit now.
Except the one in Cursed City that's Soulblight but comes bundled with 500 points of other crap.
That’s a Vargskyr, completely different
I think it's just icelandic for low-fat Varghulf
I really hate that name, Vargskyr. It sounds so stupid in Icelandic.
Brutus_Apex wrote: Those are two very cool vampire torso’s that could have been great models if they were just normal vampires.
What a waste.
I agree, some of the best armoured vampires GW have made, completely ruined by the lower body. They look way too big for leg conversions too.
Well, depending on the sizing, if you make your own legs for those two torsos, you've got some good Inquisitor models. Add a head to the lower half and your got yourself a plastic Varghulf.
I like vampire babushka on the wolf and the dire wolves.
Danny76 wrote: To me after reading all the comments about splitting them.
If you look at her waist up only, yeah just looks like a normal vampire.
And the bottom half literally has shoulders that come in to the waist.
Should easily be able to make that two models if the skirt piece doesn’t attach to the shoulders of the beast too badly..
Yeah, that's kind of the only fix I see to that model: find a decent head ad two sets of legs suitable.
As a mainly Fantasy collector I do like to keep track of the latest AOS releases for anything that can be fit in somewhere, or has conversion or proxy potential. Those models are interesting alright..I'd share the consensus that they are like 2 models fitted on to each other. The Vampire torsos are excellent sculpts. Quite like the Dire Wolves...surprisingly understated.
As far as suitable legs go I'm wondering would the scale match up to Nagash as that could be a very decent work around? The legs on the Nagash kit are also fairly easy to convert too.
On a side note has it been mentioned that the Radukarr model reveal, combined with GW's silence, really feels like potential planned Cursed City expansions were actually in the pipeline but have been scrapped at short notice? Just came across like that when I saw it in the reveal earlier.
BertBert wrote: God, these Vamptaurs are hideous. The upper halves are solid but they just look tacked onto the lower part. It just doesn't work at all.
Agreed. I really like the top halves, but I don't need a legless vampire with a giant bat monster stuck up their bum.
I am thinking of taking blood knight legs, using the upper torso of the new lords, and turning their beast half into a monster they can ride.
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DaveC wrote: Here's the SBGL army pic it's just more skeletons at the back probably the hobby teams work
I really like the weird vampire-centaur-beast things. They look bizarre... like vampires in an Age of Sigmar setting should probably look. About the only thing I'm "eh" on is Grandma Wolfrider.
The Vengorian looks like two fantastic looking models that are slapped on top of each other. With a bit of modelling skill this might be three models in one kit, using left over pieces.
The Direwolves are alright but not exciting.
Radukar looks a lot better than he does in Cursed City, which is saying something. For those who missed that game, this model goes a little way to making up for it.
I shall be getting the Witch Hunters for an AoS solo-coop campaign, but sadly there is no Vargskyr or updated Varghulf for them to do battle with.
Is Kragnos anything to do with Skaeth’s Wild Hunt, from Beastgrave? Very lookie-likely.
Albertorius wrote: Holy feth, that Radukar seems designed by Rob Liefeld!
Hah! That's the best part, he'll fit right in with my nascent Space Wolf's army. I bought the Cursed City mini to convert into Wolf Lord; but now I must by the "wolfed out" model for a wulfen version of the Wolf Lord. A win, win really. Hell I probably by granny-wolf as well. I won't ever use them in my Vampire Army, but I do like them alot.
Since there was no mention of it today, I think we now know that Saturday will be the AoS 3.0 reveal. Not that I don’t want an AoS 3.0, but I’m saddened that it probably won’t be something cool like new Horus Heresy.
I suppose there’s still a chance it might not come yet and they wait until Broken Realms Kragnos actually releases. That way AoS 3.0 can be the focus all its own. Plus they are just so, so behind with a ton of other stuff.
My God! Why is gw this useless? They remake blood knights in an awesome way and then they don't follow through with blood knight characters?
Instead they give us weird vampire centaurs?! Who designed that crap? Jeez....
Megavamp which I am so-so on. The shoulder-to-waist joint doesn't work for me, and I just feel like there is not enough visual coherency between the two halves. Having more of the upper body exposed and some of the lower body armored in the same style would help a great deal IMO.
Love everything else. Especially those dire wolves, those look fantastic. I also like the character-heavy focus of Soulblight as it preserves vampires as being exclusively badass. I would raise criticism about too many named and not enough generic but with megavamp as a dual-build that fills the gap for me. Though not having a horse-mounted vampire as a 'hero blood knight' is a glaring omission. Could've even been a dual-build from the kit.
Definitely digging Kragnos as a new Destruction demigod. Really enjoying that he's a god-tier character who started off as just a mortal in the Realms. Up until now that space has largely been reserved for elves from the Old World. I don't think he seems bland, I think he isn't oversculpted with details kept contained and not covering every surface of the model. I can see that criticism, though only after others have pointed it out. Personal taste, I guess. I find that his miniature is simple and straightforward--very appropriate for Destruction. I do wish his scenic base was more detailed though, for the god of earthquakes a big blank rock with some cracks doesn't really do it.
Kragnos does nothing for me. It doesn't tie in with any of the destruction ranges so its just a really big centaur. The paint scheme is by no means bad but the proportions are taking it dangerously close to "toy" territory over being a miniature.
By contrast I need to see the Vamptaur in the flesh. Initial thoughts were "that's incredibly stupid" - but I'm moving swiftly "nah, its just weird, possibly even kind of cool". Sort of liking them more with every look.
I can sort of see the complaints about the Vampires being all special characters - but to a degree I'm not that bothered. That just seems something you have to get over.
Question for those who watched the whole stream; did we get confirmation that Soulblight are their own battletome and not LoN 2.0? The circumstantial evidence for it not being a replacement is quite piled up at this point but it would still be nice to have a definite answer.
Quasistellar wrote: Since there was no mention of it today, I think we now know that Saturday will be the AoS 3.0 reveal. Not that I don’t want an AoS 3.0, but I’m saddened that it probably won’t be something cool like new Horus Heresy.
I suppose there’s still a chance it might not come yet and they wait until Broken Realms Kragnos actually releases. That way AoS 3.0 can be the focus all its own. Plus they are just so, so behind with a ton of other stuff.
I hope so. I just can't bring myself to trust GW not to create as many (or more) problems with 3rd as they eliminate from 2nd. While it has some rough edges and the balance is (as always) horrid, at the end of the day 2nd is fun. It is a very enjoyable ruleset. I find myself flashing back to the end of 5th edition 40k, where the new edition created as many problems as it solved and just wasn't quite as much fun to play.
That appears to be more of the same Skeletons that are in the foreground. On a side note; that Corpse Cart appears to be missing one of its lanterns.
Might end up using the vampire-centaur-thing for a conversion. An experiment of a Dark Eldar Haemonculus perhaps? Not sold on the rest of the new stuff, so that saves me some money.
Kragnos looks "meh" to me. Doesn't live up to his billing.
The Mother of Nightmares & her alternative build, I have mixed feelings on. Can't decide if the lower half fits or not, but the top half is fantastic. Were I a Soulblight player I might try to just use the top half as part of a normal vamp.
Guessing this means AOS3 will be Saturday, which will be interesting to see. I hope the 40k days are a little more impressive than Monday's session.
Dire wolves are certainly a big step up; about time those were updated. Shame the swarms from Cursed City won't get a separate release apparently, would have been a great set of undeady creatures. The wolves are certainly the highlight of the event though...
The vampire centaur things feel like another case of GW wanting to do something original just for the sake of it. Scrolling down, it quickly went from "oh ye..." to "...eezus christ why, just why??" The inconsistency between the parts is so large even the two loincloths don't remotely match in style.
Other characters, meh. Not my cup of tea, but could be fun for other purposes.
Overall, it feels like GW saved me a lot of money there. Vampire release was looking awfully tempting especially with the chosen (/retained) aesthetic, but now I should be done with a box of wolves and maybe the Wight King (if he fits in with the older plastics scale-wise).
Kragnos isn't a bad sculpt or design by any means, but he neither fits with any models in the faction he's supposed to be part of, nor really feels unique enough to warrant a new entity. There are Dragon Ogres, Centigors Chaos Dwarf Bull Centaurs and Kurnothi as highly similar concepts already. So much so that people were largely expecting him to be one of those. Nice in isolation, but pretty generic and unnecessary within this context.
To be fair, Kragnos isn't meant to fit in with the factions. He's the last of his kind, the Destruction factions are just following in his wake it seems.
The Old Lady Vampire is my least favorite of this bunch.
Werewolf Vamp is good.
Vamptaurs Im undecided on.
All in all the army is mostly a pass for me other than the Blood Knights. I like keeping the old theme of Vampire Counts with some new stuff. but I wanted something more Vampire focused.
In terms of releases, they are the most WHFB I have seen of AoS. Which I like a lot. They are a good blend of old and new. The direwolves and the skellingtons which we've already seen look superb. A nice looking release over all, be interesting to see what tomorrow brings.
Kanluwen wrote: To be fair, Kragnos isn't meant to fit in with the factions. He's the last of his kind, the Destruction factions are just following in his wake it seems.
Funny thing is he'd fit great with models from two other Grand Alliances
This whole wave feels like someone just gave up halfway through designing it.
Kanluwen wrote: To be fair, Kragnos isn't meant to fit in with the factions. He's the last of his kind, the Destruction factions are just following in his wake it seems.
But that's just some nonsense GW made up and they didn't have to. An army being visually incoherent looks bad even if you have some fluff to justify it. Kragnoss should have some beastly buddies to go with him.
But it is weird. There are Beast of Chaos, which have thematically and visually very similar things. Kragnos is basically a giant centigor that doesn't look like total crap. And of course GW recently introduced the Kurnothi, which have centaurs and riff on the beast theme too. Some sort of primal beast creature faction would be cool, but GW has the design elements spread in three differnt armies that all belong to three differnt grand alliances... It's very confused.
Lord Damocles wrote: Is there any lore reason for why vampires are giants now? They all look really huge compared to the skeletons and zombies around them.
Lord Damocles wrote: Is there any lore reason for why vampires are giants now? They all look really huge compared to the skeletons and zombies around them.
Cawl is at it again
Nope. Don't see it. Everyone knows that humans that become vampires somehow become even larger than genetically modified super soldiers.
Seriously though, for some reason, the Cursed City humans were also massive, compared to other models. Maybe people in Shyish are just massive
Kanluwen wrote: To be fair, Kragnos isn't meant to fit in with the factions. He's the last of his kind, the Destruction factions are just following in his wake it seems.
Funny thing is he'd fit great with models from two other Grand Alliances
This whole wave feels like someone just gave up halfway through designing it.
I don't know but when the first illustration was revealed I thought it was one update of the Dragon ogre Shaggoth. Should be easy to convert to one.
Not sure if its halfway project I mean theres loads of big characters with these expansions so I would think its all planned. (unlike cursed box set)
Was it just me or one of the commentators was kind of very defensive with the chat?
H.B.M.C. wrote: AoS: Vampires. The next campaign book (Kragnos?). Outside chance of a new Starterbox.
Ok, so far so good. Didn't think we'd get a new Starterbox (hence 'outside chance'), but everything else is exactly as I thought it'd be.
Lot of characters for the Vamps. Not a fan of the big Vampire lady with the wings. Big fan of the Cursed City dude's 'Final Form'. Dire Wolves are pretty sweet.
Kragnos is a big boy. Shame he isn't ushering in a new range of Centigors.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Question for those who watched the whole stream; did we get confirmation that Soulblight are their own battletome and not LoN 2.0? The circumstantial evidence for it not being a replacement is quite piled up at this point but it would still be nice to have a definite answer.
Well yeah they have their own battletome. They showed it before in a previous article.
They said nothing about Legion of Nagash, but it's pretty obvious from what they showed that a lot of warscrolls will be replaced at best.
Otherwise, there are several vampire bloodlines obviously...to me, more than LoN 2.0, it's WHFB Vampire Counts : AoS edition.
But they said nothing much about the rules, other than "watch Warhammer Community, there will be more articles about them soon".
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I was fine with the models but updated Lizardmen would get me 100% into looking into AoS, assuming 3.0 fixes the balance issues (likely not).
Are the AOS balance issues from the core rules, or from the army books?
If the latter, then the theoretical 3.0 is unlikely to solve the issue - at best, it might just change where the problems are.
I dont like his grot, but he's super cool. Very nice to bring back the flying squig from the Rukkatruk set. I forget it's name, but it's a squig breed that's existed for awhile.
Definitely glad the vamps are more character heavy. Vampire peasants kind of defeats the whole thing that vampire lords represent. Model wise, I don't like them at all. Everything has something that I really don't care for that I find distracting. Those bataurs have everything wrong about them you see when you google "reverse centaur".
Kanluwen wrote: To be fair, Kragnos isn't meant to fit in with the factions. He's the last of his kind, the Destruction factions are just following in his wake it seems.
That's all fine and dandy in theory, but in practice he will stick out like a sore thumb, like bringing Nagash to an army of Slaaneshi demons. He's not meant to fit, but it still makes the army look worse, not better.
To be honest, GW undead armies were always character heavy. I mean, the base of it is powerful characters keeping the army on their feet with lots of units that are crap without them.
For a battletome named "Soulblight Gravelords", it's not that surprising the stars of the show are the characters, not the troops they lead. That there are a lot of them just show to me they want to put back the vampire bloodlines - just the AoS version of it.
Despite being the last of his kind, I'm guessing we'll get some models that would fit better with him down the line. They mention some people making idols of him, but not exactly who. Would be weird if they were just referring to ogors and orruks, unless Kragnos is getting a battle tome that combines all them into his own faction.
Kanluwen wrote: To be fair, Kragnos isn't meant to fit in with the factions. He's the last of his kind, the Destruction factions are just following in his wake it seems.
That's all fine and dandy in theory, but in practice he will stick out like a sore thumb, like bringing Nagash to an army of Slaaneshi demons. He's not meant to fit, but it still makes the army look worse, not better.
Or like bringing an Imperial Knight in an Astra Militarum army
So I googled battaur, and I did not expect to see that furries have nailed this concept down waaay before GW got to it. It isn't even a novel design, apparently, that's just how a large number of people imagine the concept of "bat centaur".
GaroRobe wrote: Despite being the last of his kind, I'm guessing we'll get some models that would fit better with him down the line. They mention some people making idols of him, but not exactly who. Would be weird if they were just referring to ogors and orruks, unless Kragnos is getting a battle tome that combines all them into his own faction.
Could a slightly more civilized beasts of Chaos rally around Kragnos? I mean if they stop worshipping Chaos undivided and just become a force to tear down the current establishment and develop a world of their own. It could be a nice battle for them to break free of the Chaos Gods to create their own society.
GaroRobe wrote: Despite being the last of his kind, I'm guessing we'll get some models that would fit better with him down the line. They mention some people making idols of him, but not exactly who. Would be weird if they were just referring to ogors and orruks, unless Kragnos is getting a battle tome that combines all them into his own faction.
Could a slightly more civilized beasts of Chaos rally around Kragnos? I mean if they stop worshipping Chaos undivided and just become a force to tear down the current establishment and develop a world of their own. It could be a nice battle for them to break free of the Chaos Gods to create their own society.
No. They're the true children of chaos and will never be anything but chaos. IIRC they don't want to just tear things down but degenerate back into some primordial soup.
GaroRobe wrote: That would be something. Chaos finally gains skaven, only to lose beastmen
I feel that the Grand Alliances are too limiting as a concept. Beast of Chaos should be able to ally with some Orruks, Ogors should be able to ally with Cities of Sigmar, etc.
And of course thematically 'Destruction' is a mess. It's just 'the leftovers' grand alliance.
GaroRobe wrote: unless Kragnos is getting a battle tome that combines all them into his own faction.
It's... pretty damn obvious that he leads mixed armies.
Obviously. But that still doesn't explain why GW would point out his totem on the base. "You can even spot a devotional effigy on his base, similar to those popping up all around Ghur, and beyond – now who might be building those?"
Like, we get it, Destruction loves this dude. But it's like having a night goblin on a base, with a moon totem, and them going like "Wonder who could be making those?"
GaroRobe wrote: unless Kragnos is getting a battle tome that combines all them into his own faction.
It's... pretty damn obvious that he leads mixed armies.
Giants, ogres and orcs... any word on gobbos?
There are goblins in the army shot with him.
They also specifically mentioned Gloomspite.
Cheers.
Well he would look a bit visually out of place specially with the gobbos. Giants ok with size and all, Orcs have big nasty ironjawz, ogres still look pants so whatever...but the tiny goblins with that brute huge centaur
I don't think he looks Chaos enough to fit in well. All his gear is rounded and ornate with artistic detail in a way Chaos gear isn't. And his body is very 'natural' so much as a creature like him can be. IMO it's only his head that would look fine as a Chaos thing without modification. But that's just me of course.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Question for those who watched the whole stream; did we get confirmation that Soulblight are their own battletome and not LoN 2.0? The circumstantial evidence for it not being a replacement is quite piled up at this point but it would still be nice to have a definite answer.
Well yeah they have their own battletome. They showed it before in a previous article.
The community came up with a theory early on that the Soulblight Gravelords battletome will replace the Legions of Nagash one, and while there is evidence this will not be the case there is no explicit confirmation. Thank you for the response anyways though
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Altruizine wrote: Nah, you're just not thinking creatively, there's a ton of conversion options out there.
Personally i really liked everything shown today (barring the mobile game, but it's a mobile game so who cares?). The Vengorian i actually really like. It's a perfect vision of a vampiristic monstrosity. I like the direction the vamps are going in.
About Kragnos, they said specifically in the video that he can be included in every Destruction army, either as a Grand Alliance of Destruction (duh) or in a similar way like Mega-Gargants as an ally.
About its totem, the question was asked about it and they just talked about the background (like these totems are everywhere and no one knows who puts them there nor why).
About the rules, it was said in the video he has 18 wounds and has a 2+ save with his shield. He hits hard and is resilient. Of course "watch out Warhammer Community to know more about it soon !".
Ok, also Mega-Centigor, which... honestly isn't that surprising either. But... I'd rather just have plastic centigors.
And between him and the dragon-centaur-vampires, this feels like an amazing missed opportunity for a plastic Dragon Ogre Shaggoth.
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Vampires are... eh.
Seriously, a pile of special characters and a non-special torso and head that just feels sort of blu-tacked on. Not sure Warhammer needed Legion of Everblight vampires (which is ironic given how people bagged on Legion for the tyranid-esque designs), and I definitely don't think it needed non-Strigoi bestial vampires when there are still Strigoi running about their own faction, but... whatever.
On the other paw, those are really excellent dire wolves, propping up some serious missed opportunities. And they're also on bases rather than climbing ridiculous pillars of junk or major terrain features.
So, huzzah?
NinthMusketeer wrote: The community came up with a theory early on that the Soulblight Gravelords battletome will replace the Legions of Nagash one, and while there is evidence this will not be the case there is no explicit confirmation. Thank you for the response anyways though
Well, they didn't talk about the Mortarchs either.
Kanluwen wrote: To be fair, Kragnos isn't meant to fit in with the factions. He's the last of his kind, the Destruction factions are just following in his wake it seems.
That's all fine and dandy in theory, but in practice he will stick out like a sore thumb, like bringing Nagash to an army of Slaaneshi demons. He's not meant to fit, but it still makes the army look worse, not better.
In practice he's a 3-up of a centigor. The whole thing is just weird. This concept already exists, in AoS. He simply has been decreed to not be a Beasts of Chaos character despite fitting right into this formula:
Dragon Ogres --> Shaggoth (and in the Old world go a step further into Kholek or the sire of the Dragon Ogres, Krakanrok the Black)
Centigors --> Kragnos.
Seems odd that they did this rather than just release a standalone Vornskyr (or whatever the not-Vargulf from Cursed City is called).
Ditto that there's no Undead Ogre kit to match the one from Cursed City. You'd think that unit as a king of 'heavy infantry' for this new AoS army would be a complete shoe-in.
Crimson wrote: But as many posters have already noted, he doesn't visually connect to anything in the Destruction faction'; he looks more like he should go with Beast of Chaos.
Maybe another example of the model designers doing something that the rules guys then had to figure out after the fact.
lord_blackfang wrote: I suppose Kragnos will be a big seller in Slovenia since he's straight ripping our iron age relics and national symbols
Don't be absurd. All of GW's ideas are completely original and are in no way inspired by outside sources. They told us much when they took a small person to caught and told us that they invented arrows, Roman numerals and grenade launchers.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: GW really needs to understand "Less is more" when it comes to AoS.
Ne'er has a truer word been spoken about Age of Sigmar. And that's going in my sig.
Kanluwen wrote: To be fair, Kragnos isn't meant to fit in with the factions. He's the last of his kind, the Destruction factions are just following in his wake it seems.
That's all fine and dandy in theory, but in practice he will stick out like a sore thumb, like bringing Nagash to an army of Slaaneshi demons. He's not meant to fit, but it still makes the army look worse, not better.
In practice he's a 3-up of a centigor. The whole thing is just weird. This concept already exists, in AoS. He simply has been decreed to not be a Beasts of Chaos character despite fitting right into this formula:
Dragon Ogres --> Shaggoth (and in the Old world go a step further into Kholek or the sire of the Dragon Ogres, Krakanrok the Black)
Centigors --> Kragnos.
Heres the thing, it could mean several things.
1. BOC are corrupted versions of the original ones. Kragnos is the ORIGINAL race that came before BoC.
2. His people were pre-chaos age.
3. Just because he looks like a beastmen does not mean he is associated with chaos. BoC especially shouldn't all be apart of chaos anyway. They were only thrown at Chaos because they were in fantasy which already was stretch before.
Definitely a mixed bag. I love the new vamp-taur model, but Radukar the Beast and his grandma do nothing for me.
Was honestly hoping for more. There are still some ancient models that could use an update in the line, and Grave Guard and Black Knights are going to look tiny compared to the new Skeletons. Still absolutely ridiculous we can't take the Vargskyr or any of the other things from Cursed City separately, but at least it'll soften the sting for those that didn't get it.
Kragnos is... Kragnos. I'm not a Destruction fan, so I won't say anything more. I do look forward to how other people paint the model. The GW paint was great around his armor and shield, but his face and flesh seem really flat.
Also, wow, a mobile game ad in the middle of the stream. Chat went wild with "Don't you guys have phones??" (reference to Diablo mobile game fiasco) and a LOT of rage and heat. In an already short reveal stream, the last thing people want is another mobile game.
Like seriously, if it was any other kind of game, fine, but a mobile game? Wow GW, is that where we're at now?
drbored wrote: Definitely a mixed bag. I love the new vamp-taur model, but Radukar the Beast and his grandma do nothing for me.
Was honestly hoping for more. There are still some ancient models that could use an update in the line, and Grave Guard and Black Knights are going to look tiny compared to the new Skeletons. Still absolutely ridiculous we can't take the Vargskyr or any of the other things from Cursed City separately, but at least it'll soften the sting for those that didn't get it.
Kragnos is... Kragnos. I'm not a Destruction fan, so I won't say anything more. I do look forward to how other people paint the model. The GW paint was great around his armor and shield, but his face and flesh seem really flat.
Also, wow, a mobile game ad in the middle of the stream. Chat went wild with "Don't you guys have phones??" (reference to Diablo mobile game fiasco) and a LOT of rage and heat. In an already short reveal stream, the last thing people want is another mobile game.
Like seriously, if it was any other kind of game, fine, but a mobile game? Wow GW, is that where we're at now?
Mobile games literally make billions of dollars wierd they didn't catch on sooner or make an AR game for their events.
I was hoping for new grave guard, black knights, etc but the stuff we got is cool. I think there will be a second release for them, and they range refresh over time and we might third edition in the coming months.
... by being predatory and exploitative time-sinks. I, too, am shocked that GW didn't jump into that kind of market years ago.
True! But as we have seen, mobile games are not what an audience that wants plastic toy soldiers wants to have advertised to them.
I think it was some 20,000+ people tuned in to the stream expecting models, and they whip out a mobile game ad. NOT a good look for any company. I don't care how much money they make, it is NOT a good look.
Kanluwen wrote: To be fair, Kragnos isn't meant to fit in with the factions. He's the last of his kind, the Destruction factions are just following in his wake it seems.
That's all fine and dandy in theory, but in practice he will stick out like a sore thumb, like bringing Nagash to an army of Slaaneshi demons. He's not meant to fit, but it still makes the army look worse, not better.
In practice he's a 3-up of a centigor. The whole thing is just weird. This concept already exists, in AoS. He simply has been decreed to not be a Beasts of Chaos character despite fitting right into this formula:
Dragon Ogres --> Shaggoth (and in the Old world go a step further into Kholek or the sire of the Dragon Ogres, Krakanrok the Black)
Centigors --> Kragnos.
Heres the thing, it could mean several things.
1. BOC are corrupted versions of the original ones. Kragnos is the ORIGINAL race that came before BoC.
Well... except he has horns, clawed hands and random bone spurs, similar to what the centigors have, except his are set to 'more.' That doesn't send a message that centigor are the corrupted ones.
You can make some arguments about hooves vs clawed feet, but GW flipped repeatedly on that for other BoC models (like minotaurs), so that's pretty inconclusive.
2. His people were pre-chaos age.
So... why doesn't he look less like a centigor, then?
Anyway, that sounds like someone rapidly doodling new fluff on the back of a napkin, not something consistent with the setting.
3. Just because he looks like a beastmen does not mean he is associated with chaos. BoC especially shouldn't all be apart of chaos anyway. They were only thrown at Chaos because they were in fantasy which already was stretch before.
Gonna have to just flatly disagree on that. All that. Granted, beastmen started looking a little more consistent once they shifted to plastic models, but.. they're _the_ children of chaos. Its was a big part of their identity in fantasy (and absolutely the fundamental aspect of their identity since RoC: Lost and the Damned), and I'm unaware that changed in AoS.
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Edit: Oh. I missed the ork model in the separate article. Cyborks are a neat unit idea... oh... nevermind. Its a Primar-ork Painboy, even more better than wot an existing model is. yaay.
... by being predatory and exploitative time-sinks. I, too, am shocked that GW didn't jump into that kind of market years ago.
True! But as we have seen, mobile games are not what an audience that wants plastic toy soldiers wants to have advertised to them.
I think it was some 20,000+ people tuned in to the stream expecting models, and they whip out a mobile game ad. NOT a good look for any company. I don't care how much money they make, it is NOT a good look.
We have no blood knight characters for you... BUUUT heres a mobile game! Thats Cool right? chachacha! I bet its one of those games that plays itself too..
Everything is either a centaur posing on some obnoxious rocks, or a floating magic man. If GW jumped the shark any harder it'd be wearing a leather jacket in a sitcom about the 50s.
drbored wrote: I think it was some 20,000+ people tuned in to the stream expecting models, and they whip out a mobile game ad. NOT a good look for any company. I don't care how much money they make, it is NOT a good look.
We have no blood knight characters for you... BUUUT heres a mobile game! Thats Cool right? chachacha! I bet its one of those games that plays itself too..
So I like the Lynel model (but probably not enough to over pay for it) but I wish it wasnt seemingly standalone and had other members of its race alongside it.
The vampire stuff does nothing for me personally (none of the undead stuff over the past year or two has) but its good to see its intended audience seems to like it.
I'm just hopeful that new chaos marauders are on the way.
As models I like all of them, but as vampire models they don't really thrill me the way I loved the previous reveal. I'm getting Lumineth vibes with how the first reveal is almost entirely reimagined/updated version of a WHFB line and then outrolls the 'different for the sake of being different' wagon.
The Giant Vampire-Bat Lady and Nameless Lord just seem like they phoned in a centrepiece because GW is now required by law to include a diorama with every AoS release and they wanted to be different for the sake of being different.
I like the concept of a Gangrel- sorry, Werewolf/Vampire hybrid Bloodline but Olenna Tyrell riding a wolf feels a bit like they're getting into Space Wolf 'Wolfcutlass Wolfangs Wolfcurse' territory.
Kragnos screams Centaur/Beasts of Chaos so much I'm not surprised BoC players are awaiting the No Longer Available signs warily.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Question for those who watched the whole stream; did we get confirmation that Soulblight are their own battletome and not LoN 2.0? The circumstantial evidence for it not being a replacement is quite piled up at this point but it would still be nice to have a definite answer.
The Legion of Nagash Battletome is 'Sold Out - No Longer Available' on the UK, US, German, Spanish, Japanese and Australian webstores so I believe that's a pretty good indication it's being superseded by the Soulblight Gravelords Battletome.
... by being predatory and exploitative time-sinks. I, too, am shocked that GW didn't jump into that kind of market years ago.
True! But as we have seen, mobile games are not what an audience that wants plastic toy soldiers wants to have advertised to them.
I think it was some 20,000+ people tuned in to the stream expecting models, and they whip out a mobile game ad. NOT a good look for any company. I don't care how much money they make, it is NOT a good look.
We have no blood knight characters for you... BUUUT heres a mobile game! Thats Cool right? chachacha! I bet its one of those games that plays itself too..
It... it is. It's like AFK Arena or something. You just put the dudes wherever and then the game plays itself. I wish I was kidding.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Question for those who watched the whole stream; did we get confirmation that Soulblight are their own battletome and not LoN 2.0? The circumstantial evidence for it not being a replacement is quite piled up at this point but it would still be nice to have a definite answer.
Well yeah they have their own battletome. They showed it before in a previous article.
They said nothing about Legion of Nagash, but it's pretty obvious from what they showed that a lot of warscrolls will be replaced at best.
Otherwise, there are several vampire bloodlines obviously...to me, more than LoN 2.0, it's WHFB Vampire Counts : AoS edition.
But they said nothing much about the rules, other than "watch Warhammer Community, there will be more articles about them soon".
Lon battletome(physical) is no longer available from gw store thoqugh
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I was fine with the models but updated Lizardmen would get me 100% into looking into AoS, assuming 3.0 fixes the balance issues (likely not).
Are the AOS balance issues from the core rules, or from the army books?
If the latter, then the theoretical 3.0 is unlikely to solve the issue - at best, it might just change where the problems are.
Making shooting and magic less efficient would help a lot. For example deny shooting in and into combat. Boom instant help. Scenarios can be used to that effect(see how 40k melee became essential with scenario changes)
GaroRobe wrote: unless Kragnos is getting a battle tome that combines all them into his own faction.
It's... pretty damn obvious that he leads mixed armies.
They didn't say so though. Pics hint but could be just shots from scenarios. What they did say is he can be added to any destruction army. Gotrek doesn't give you mixed order despite being available to every order.
Finally got home to be able to look at this.
I like the aesthetic of the vampires.....no, not those from today, the ones they've shown previously and the ones from Direchasm. The hybrid centaur vampire is ridiculously bad. At first glance (on my phone), I was intrigued by the torso....then I tried to figure out what she was standing on.....then I realized it's the rest of her body, lol. So bad.
Beast Radukar is OK I guess.
Kragnos face is just awful, really, really awful. Rest is OK if not generic, but that model is a big pass for me for any reason. I would not be afraid facing this guy, I'd be laughing at his face....he really needed a lisp in the videos to make it all come together.
Overall, not a great showing today....just sometimes they go too far, and these models definitely went too far.
... by being predatory and exploitative time-sinks. I, too, am shocked that GW didn't jump into that kind of market years ago.
True! But as we have seen, mobile games are not what an audience that wants plastic toy soldiers wants to have advertised to them.
I think it was some 20,000+ people tuned in to the stream expecting models, and they whip out a mobile game ad. NOT a good look for any company. I don't care how much money they make, it is NOT a good look.
We have no blood knight characters for you... BUUUT heres a mobile game! Thats Cool right? chachacha! I bet its one of those games that plays itself too..
Well guess they could have not shown that and have 5min shorter preview. Better?
Or what model you would have preferred to drop for blood knight character?
... by being predatory and exploitative time-sinks. I, too, am shocked that GW didn't jump into that kind of market years ago.
True! But as we have seen, mobile games are not what an audience that wants plastic toy soldiers wants to have advertised to them.
I think it was some 20,000+ people tuned in to the stream expecting models, and they whip out a mobile game ad. NOT a good look for any company. I don't care how much money they make, it is NOT a good look.
We have no blood knight characters for you... BUUUT heres a mobile game! Thats Cool right? chachacha! I bet its one of those games that plays itself too..
Well guess they could have not shown that and have 5min shorter preview. Better?
Sure. Is the length of the preview significant somehow?
They showed off the models, a mobile game certainly doesn't make this a better preview.
Not doing gak like that certainly looks better.
I really liked the chest on The Mother of Nightmares, and thought that she had a nice mount, a a new animal... then I flipped over and realised it was HER. At the moment I thought it was truly cool and fitting of a "nightmare". Now I think it is silly and quite impractical and I wonder how do they walk. I really like them and think "yeah but why?" at the same time. If they were the usual vampire lord on a gargoyle like mount this would be an insta banger in my book. Also, RIP Nightmares. I like the new Blood Knights, but I don't like the fact that they are riding skelehorses instead of angry zombiehorses.
Radukar: Cursed City is still out of print BTW.
Dire Wolves MVPs here. I love me some fwuffy bwois and gwils. I can't believe current are plastic at all, and the new ones will work great as Chaos Warhound proxies. And that raven eating the back of one of them. 10/10.
Pro-Wolf-Lives Cruella deVille Granny is truly a Queen, a "Beautiful Lady", if you like".
Mobile game nobody ca- oh feth, that Chibi-Kroxigor is just a bag of cuteness and love. I'm only looking foward that.
Kragnie: okay so I thought he was going to be a mercenary God from the Beastmen and then would have lend his services to any faction. Turns out he is entirely new God from Destruction and can be part of any army. Okay so he is the fourth... "archetype"? of miniature to do that after Archie, Megas and Be'lie.
Also, he is the "last" of his people, but remember that Nagash was the only of his sub faction and then sometime later he made the OBR, so expect the God of Earthquakes to start creating centauroid earth elementals or something in the next few years.
I really like him, particularly having optional mouths, but I already see him overpriced as all Chaosrealm, despite he being much smaller then what GW is selling him: standing on a big rock and that rock is already on a greater level, but in the War-Com article he is almost right next and the exact same size than a Thundertusk. Wonder how he managed to break a tooth of Gorkamorka (or Morkagorka?).
What I really didn't liked about this?
TOO SHORT!
Now that we know that they left Destruction for the last Broken Realms, I wonder what special boxes will they put out to sale. A big Orc-A-Palooza? An Ogre All-You-Can-Eat Buffet? 3x2 Giants? A bucket load of Goblins?
They probably won't add another Lizardmen one because of the last box, despite Kroak's re-release, but I'm quite confident in that they will add Sylvaneth, Slaanesh, or both, bundles, so I expect another hot sale.
Then maybe a Freeguilds or Teclis force, don't give Khorne even a fleeting mention and call it a day.
drbored wrote: Yeah, it definitely felt too short. Ah well, here's hoping tomorrow's reveals are a little more significant?
What I'm impressed by is that we've had virtually no leaks on the 40k side of things.
We pretty much know what 40k has in big pictures. Q is mostly what units orks get. Much like we knew soulblight getting shown but didn't know most of models shown.
Kragnos feels like a lazy "we want to milk destruction players for a big centerpiece model, but we don't want to make one for each faction, so let's just make one that fits none of them at all and let them all take him!"
Such a strange grab bag of stuff, none of which seems to fit with anything else.
Nice dire wolves, can't say the rest of it moves me much.
yukishiro1 wrote: Kragnos feels like a lazy "we want to milk destruction players for a big centerpiece model, but we don't want to make one for each faction, so let's just make one that fits none of them at all and let them all take him!"
Such a strange grab bag of stuff, none of which seems to fit with anything else.
Nice dire wolves, can't say the rest of it moves me much.
Agreed. He kind of comes out of nowhere and has no aesethetic synergy with the current model range for Destruction. What Destruction really lacks IMO right now is any significantly flavourful or narratively important special characters that help direct them in some sort of way that isn't just "go there and smash stuff". Gordrakk is somehow even less interesting than Grimgor, who at least had his slave past with the Chaos Dwarves, and just kind of goes around realmgates are and where the plot needs him to be. Skargrotti is better but also not particularly a big player beyond his stomping grounds. The mawtribes don't have anybody AFAIK and after kind of forcing them into the semi-worship of Gorkamorka for some reason rather than the Great Maw, now they kind of backpedalled again and now we have Kragnos as one of the mainline deities for Destruction. I personally don't want Gorkamorka in model form, but I feel like they could have at least had some big player that could be directly tied to one of the major subfactions in Destruction.
yukishiro1 wrote: Kragnos feels like a lazy "we want to milk destruction players for a big centerpiece model, but we don't want to make one for each faction, so let's just make one that fits none of them at all and let them all take him!"
More likely the design studio going "We made a giant Centaur. Figure out how he fits into AoS.".
Well, the obvious answer to that was BoC. If I play orcs, it's because I want to play orcs. And maybe goblins too, I'm still not 100% sold on splitting those into two armies. But it's definitely not because I wanted to play a centaur that sticks out like an absolute sore thumb.
If i'm honest, i found the whole show to be a bit lacklustre and it didn't really hold my attention.
I did have a "WTF?" moment when they trailered the mobile game... which will almost certainly be some form of p2w.
As for the "show stopper" Kragnos - i found him pretty boring. Maybe it's just the bland paint scheme that doesn't really draw your attention, but, this one has kinda put me off my idea of building a collection of all the big centre piece models. From the rules they've mentioned he'll almost certainly be an auto-include but... meh.
yukishiro1 wrote: Kragnos feels like a lazy "we want to milk destruction players for a big centerpiece model, but we don't want to make one for each faction, so let's just make one that fits none of them at all and let them all take him!"
More likely the design studio going "We made a giant Centaur. Figure out how he fits into AoS.".
It sadly isn't even the first time they've pulled shenanigans on BoC players. When they had silhouettes of the underworlds deer-elfs, I was thinking centigors then as well. But nope. Bait and switched.
@Kdash. The boring part feels like a mercy in some way. It's like if the 'Order' mega-giant had just been a giant ork with longer tusks, but no other significant changes from a standard ork model, beyond a different set of runes and glyphs on its shield.
Huh. Reading the end of the Ork Painboss article makes me think we won’t actually see Beast Snaggas for Warhammer fest. They said they’ll be back with another article in 2 weeks looking at a new dude who has some ideas about Gretchin. I hope I’m being a dope though, cos I’d very much like to see things!
The new vampires are freaking amazing. We're getting the best of both worlds, which to me was unexpected. We get the neat and more down to earth older style of skeletons and zombies, and then these new hybrid vampire creatures which really fit into the AoS design aesthetic. I really dig both of the characters, and the Radukar beast mode model was quite unexpected! I really dig it, he looks brutish and quite frightening. Would definitely not want to meet him in an ally after hours! I really like the look of his little servants as well. They come across as both fearing him and respecting him, I wonder what role in the lore he will have to play?
I'm not sure if the sculptor was going for it, but I get the feeling the two big vampires are sort of like "morphing" into these monsters from the feet up. If that's the case, they nailed it 100%. If they're going for something else, that's fine, I still really like them. The wing hands look sick and though I'd guess they'll be a nightmare to paint, I'm really excited and already dreaming up scheme ideas for colors for both the wings and the armor! I also love their bases, giving them perches makes me think of all kinds of cool other poses they could have had. It's too bad they'll likely only have the poses shown, having the wings stretched out for flight would have looked awesome. But probably would have been a pain in the rear to transport so I'm okay with the end result.
The other vampire character, the wolf rider one was sick! Great design, and amazing posing on the model. Defiantly going to be a purchase and I'm wondering if she will work well with either of the two Radukar models? I already have some great ideas for paint schemes and I hope the undead Ogres from CC get printed in a future update to the army. They will look great as some kind of elite guard for her and the other vampires. The Vengorian Lord also has that look of the old black and white movie Nosfaratu vampires which I appreciated. I kind of wonder if Soulblight will get a second release later like Lumineth did? I sort of hope so, it was nice not to have to wait a long time to get more models to add to the force.
The direwolves are sort of the meh part for me. The models are simple and fun, but I've never really liked the little hoard type creatures, stuff like necron scarabs or fenris wolves. The sculpts are well done, so I might get a box to paint up. We shall see.
I was really excited to see that it looks as though FEC are either being rolled into this Battletome, or they're definitely going to be allies for the Soulblight factions. That will be really interesting.
Kragnos is flipping amazing. I've been wanting a large centerpiece type model to make it into the destruction side and I'm really happy to see that any of the Destruction factions can take him. He seems like an absolute beast of a model too, 2+ with 18 wounds! I just hope that club hits as hard. I think Kragnos is the big hit for me of the show though, which I did not expect. I wasn't sure if he was going to be tied to the Beasts of Chaos, or if this was going to be some kind of Dwarf thing or what. But I'm happy none the less.
My guess is that we will see Kragnos set up his own faction down the line, a new group of destructo-centaurs or something? Some kind of elemental creatures? The ideas are endless and the AoS side of the hobby has been absolutely killing it in model releases lately.
The fact that the little totems are Goblin in origin intrigues me even more, I keep wondering if a new faction of Goblins isn't on the horizon in the near future?
The two vampire hunters are also a lot cooler than I was expecting. I'm tempted to start a witch hunter army, assuming one is coming.
Soul Arena looks neat. I've been sad that to date there hasn't been much in the way of AoS games...in fact I think this is the first one. I'm excited to give it a try and see how it comes out. These little mobile games can be really profitable if they're done well and o this might be a good entry into the market for them. The art style is great too, and it's going to be on steam as well, so that's a plus!
All in all it was a great reveal. I'm sad it's over and I do wish there'd been a tab more, but a lot of people think Saturday will have more for AoS in terms of surprises and possibly 3.0 so we shall see.
I don't really play 40K anymore, it got too silly with its codex release schedule and model design so I'm not as hyped for today, but hopefully there will be some neat stuff for the 40K fans out there.
Other than today and Saturday, I'm excited for the specialist games day. I'm really hoping they're ready to show us an imperator for AT! Or possibly something like Epic 40K or Warmaster reboots!
I have a feeling if the 3.0 box DOES contain Destruction(and that's looking more likely than not), that's where we'll see a more Kragnos aesthetic Faction.
Platuan4th wrote: I have a feeling if the 3.0 box DOES contain Destruction(and that's looking more likely than not), that's where we'll see a more Kragnos aesthetic Faction.
Even if they don't want to give Kraggy more models than whats already existing with the destruction races, I'd be down if GW released orruks, ogors, etc that are clearly followers of him. Similar styled armor, helmets with his antlers, etc.
Nonetheless what you think about Kragnos being "lazy design" or not, the important point of having it on Destruction's side is another sign that it's not just Gorkamorka and his greenskins and traditionnal affiliated (first was the Sons of Behemath, even if in the end, they're nothing really new). So far, Destruction is pretty much a copy-and-paste from the Old World without much innovation. That they bring a giant centaur with horns and put it on Destruction means that it can have something radically different.
Wonder if beasts of chaos won't eventually go in Destruction as well in the future...because when you read their background in AoS, they don't really side with the Chaos gods and just want to destroy all civilisation until nothing remains. That some of them are devoted to a single Chaos god and that those are already in the said Chaos god's battletome (slaangors, tzaangors) is maybe another sign of change, when they'll really redesign the Beasts of Chaos faction in the future.
Beasts of Chaos shifting to Destruction might be fine for pure beasts players, but I know a lot of Slaanesh and other mono-god armies often use Beasts of Chaos models in their forces.
That said perhaps GW is considering making the next Beasts of Chaos army split between Chaos and Destruction. Introducing two basic sub-faction groups within the battletome - one pure wild destruction and the other tainted by chaos. Limiting some of the unit options with each so that they are distinct and yet related.
Or even do what they've done with other forces that share a lot of cross over units and just have the models cross over nad have two distinct battletomes and armies - again with their own unique flavour units as well.
Much like how we expect to see Soulblight and Flesheaters share a lot of units and yet be separate and perhaps even Soulblight and Legions of Nagash
Isn't there a warband of half-animal feral Wild Elves of some sort prancing around in Underworlds? Maybe they will get upgraded to full Battle Tome status at some point?
They certainly fit Kragnos better than Ogres or Orcs.
Kragnos is a refreshing change for GW, it shows restraint. Most models that GW produce these days are too busy for my tastes, also makes them a pain to paint.
Kragnos is a nice clean sculpture that is posed in a way that look nice and isn't over the top, the level of ornamentation is just at the sweet spot.
If GW were to make a race of things like this, it may get me to buy some GW models, which is something I haven't done in about 3 years.
Having said that, doubt I'd use them in AoS, just port them over to Age of Fantasy Regiments.
Togusa wrote: I was really excited to see that it looks as though FEC are either being rolled into this Battletome, or they're definitely going to be allies for the Soulblight factions. That will be really interesting.
Much like how we expect to see Soulblight and Flesheaters share a lot of units and yet be separate and perhaps even Soulblight and Legions of Nagash
I didn't see anything at all to indicate there would be a Soulblight/FEC crossover. Where are you guys getting this idea from? Is it because the Vargheists in the Soulblight image posted yesterday? I know they look a lot like a FEC unit/Crypt Flayers, but those have always been a Soulblight unit (and not a FEC unit at all).
Isn't there a warband of half-animal feral Wild Elves of some sort prancing around in Underworlds? Maybe they will get upgraded to full Battle Tome status at some point?
They certainly fit Kragnos better than Ogres or Orcs.
I keep thinking that the Kurnothi (i.e. Skaeths Wild Hunt/the guys you're referencing) will be a Destruction faction, but I don't think GW has the guts to make a non-Order aelf faction. They certainly have some commonality with Kragnos, but they worship Kurnoth instead so it doesn't seem like he would be associated with them.
Red Corsair wrote: The weird half vampire half vorgulf model cracks me up.
It's like the designer made two amazing and seperate models and GW told them they only have the production capacity for 1 so he just loped the legs of the gal and the head off the beast and mashed them together.
You can even see in the design that her entire portion is a seperate assembly.
meaning all you need to do is find her some legs (or sculpt your own dress from GS)
and take any left over Crypt fiend head and bang you have two great models again lol.
No, I don't think you can save the top half of the model. Look at the turnaround her human torso is 2-3 times the thickness of a human. She'd have to been a female ogor before being turned. I might still get one though as something cool can still be converted out of the bestial parts.
A crypt fiend head is going to be to small for that body, maybe a spare dread abyssal head from the Mortarch kit.
Yea sorry I didn't have the time earlier to really look at more then the solo shots and I assumed they were on 40mm bases since the upper halves look like normal vamps lol. Thats even worse, they just upsized the files lol. Well I suppose you could save the top for a 54mm bust to enter into a painting comp and turn the lowers into a monster with an actual head lol. But at GW pricing I wouldn't ever do it myself.
I didn't see anything at all to indicate there would be a Soulblight/FEC crossover. Where are you guys getting this idea from? Is it because you saw the Vargheists in the Soulblight image posted yesterday? Because I hate to disappoint you, but those have always been a Soulblight unit/never been a FEC unit, despite their commonality with Crypt Flayers.
The cross over is in terms of models. FEC are basically just their getting started set and two other models; with at least the dragon and terrorghat and varghiests being soulblight and those are all in the getting started set. There's a huge amount of cross over even without it being intentional. Like I said I don't expect to see FEC rolled into soulblight as an option; it could be done but I think not. That said FEC Will want a release after this otherwise they'll feel like just a corner of soulblight.
stonehorse wrote: Kragnos is a refreshing change for GW, it shows restraint. Most models that GW produce these days are too busy for my tastes, also makes them a pain to paint.
Kragnos is a nice clean sculpture that is posed in a way that look nice and isn't over the top, the level of ornamentation is just at the sweet spot.
If GW were to make a race of things like this, it may get me to buy some GW models, which is something I haven't done in about 3 years.
Having said that, doubt I'd use them in AoS, just port them over to Age of Fantasy Regiments.
My problem is this -
Which model would you prefer (if you were just buying a cool centre piece model)? Kroak or Kragnos?
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Sotahullu wrote: So as 40k day is planned for 2 separate days does anyone have predictions or hunch what there is going to be?
I do think we see today rest of the SoB and announcement on codex (also for AdMech).
However, I really suspect that large reveal on new orks will not happen until friday.
After all that, we may see GSC and/or Eldar if going by rumour engine.
One day will probably be SoB and AdMech as we know a fair bit about them already and i'd be surprised if there were even more new models for them both.
I'd love the 2nd day to be something new, along with an estimated schedule of Codex releases. Just having that bit of scheduling would really help make it feel like the end is in sight.
Yeah, there is absolutely zero chance of them announcing a codex schedule more than three to four months in advance. Nil. I doubt even that at the moment.
Isn't AdMech just one mini and a codex? If so then I hope they don't waste time announcing it twice liek they did with Kroak and Co. yesterday. I guess today will be more sister (yay...) Fingers crossed for a cheeky Black Templar reveal at the end.
The Phazer wrote: Yeah, there is absolutely zero chance of them announcing a codex schedule more than three to four months in advance. Nil. I doubt even that at the moment.
They can announce the sequence, just not the dates.
I'd go with a quick cover of Admech, since that will probably be the preorder window after this current o e, and a full look at the new Sisters book and units tomorrow. Then Friday the orks and War of Rust part 2
yukishiro1 wrote: Kragnos feels like a lazy "we want to milk destruction players for a big centerpiece model, but we don't want to make one for each faction, so let's just make one that fits none of them at all and let them all take him!"
Such a strange grab bag of stuff, none of which seems to fit with anything else.
Nice dire wolves, can't say the rest of it moves me much.
Whilst the aesthetic incoherence bugs me a lot, and I strongly feel Kragnos should have been Beast of Chaos or Kurnothi model, I still can't stop thinking what would it take to make him actually work with current Destruction range. Now orkifying things has long and proud tradition in warhammer games, so I can easily imagine cool orkified versions of Kragnos.
Make him green, then perhaps add some orky armour bits from Ironjawz. And you could convert the orcs a bit too; make some greenstuff cast of the amulets Kragnos has, and sprinkle them on the orruks.
The Phazer wrote: Yeah, there is absolutely zero chance of them announcing a codex schedule more than three to four months in advance. Nil. I doubt even that at the moment.
They can announce the sequence, just not the dates.
Even the sequence would probably be a mistake, with the possibility of a book (or associated minis/packaging) getting stuck somewhere along the supply chain, better to just say these 3 are coming, wait and see which comes first so the can swap things round if they need to
You know, I guess modern AoS and 40K just aren't for me, but I have to say that I'm just not interested in every faction being focused on giant "centrepiece" models. I kind of liked playing with armies of miniatures representing person-sized things.
Overread wrote: Beasts of Chaos shifting to Destruction might be fine for pure beasts players, but I know a lot of Slaanesh and other mono-god armies often use Beasts of Chaos models in their forces.
That said perhaps GW is considering making the next Beasts of Chaos army split between Chaos and Destruction. Introducing two basic sub-faction groups within the battletome - one pure wild destruction and the other tainted by chaos. Limiting some of the unit options with each so that they are distinct and yet related.
Or even do what they've done with other forces that share a lot of cross over units and just have the models cross over nad have two distinct battletomes and armies - again with their own unique flavour units as well.
Sure, something like that would make sense. There are order and chaos humans* so there could be destruction and chaos beastmen.
* Weirdly, there are no destruction humans. They could and should be a thing. 'Barbarians' are a popular fantasy trope, but in Warhammer that's tied to chaos, and that is turn off to many people.
Albino Squirrel wrote: You know, I guess modern AoS and 40K just aren't for me, but I have to say that I'm just not interested in every faction being focused on giant "centrepiece" models. I kind of liked playing with armies of miniatures representing person-sized things.
Back when I started in WHFB and 40k it was typical to have an army of normal sized things and *maybe* one or two big centrepiece models. These days it seems the other way around, and when everything is special nothing is special.
Albino Squirrel wrote: You know, I guess modern AoS and 40K just aren't for me, but I have to say that I'm just not interested in every faction being focused on giant "centrepiece" models. I kind of liked playing with armies of miniatures representing person-sized things.
Back when I started in WHFB and 40k it was typical to have an army of normal sized things and *maybe* one or two big centrepiece models. These days it seems the other way around, and when everything is special nothing is special.
How many games of AoS have you actually played? Because most armies are not a ton of centerpiece models. Outside special cases like beastclaw raiders and mega gargants, of course.
And the same goes for 40k. Of course, we are no longer in the game were a leman russ and a dreadnought were the biggest of things. Maybe you now face a imperial guard army with 3 leman russes and a couple of vehicles and infantry, or a Tyranid list with 1 or 2 big bugs. But still, most people play armies that look just as they looked back then.
I mean. Your typical Lumineth army will have, at best, one giant cow elemental or Teclis as the only centerpiece model. The points don't allow for much else.
My feeling is they are going to cover what's left of the Sisters release (Guessing a flyer and something else), have a big Ork Reveal, and maybe the dex after that(Daemons?).
Not sure if that will be split up between 2 days or what.
Albino Squirrel wrote: You know, I guess modern AoS and 40K just aren't for me, but I have to say that I'm just not interested in every faction being focused on giant "centrepiece" models. I kind of liked playing with armies of miniatures representing person-sized things.
Back when I started in WHFB and 40k it was typical to have an army of normal sized things and *maybe* one or two big centrepiece models. These days it seems the other way around, and when everything is special nothing is special.
Yeah, that's how I feel. And I know I liked it at first. I remember when the plastic Trygon came out and I was pretty excited to get that. But it was a kinda special thing, and I didn't include it in every battle. Even back in 2nd edition, when admittedly it was more of a small scale skirmish game, I wasn't crazy about having a bunch of vehicles in a game, because it seemed to take away from what the game was about, the firefights/combats between squads. A vehicle heavy force could really unbalance things if the other side didn't have a lot of anti-armor weapons and really take the focus away from the infantry.
But since that Trygon came out, it has gotten more and more extreme. The Trygon initially felt like a pretty special thing I'd bring out for the really big games. Now it seems like every game will have several things that size or bigger. And it does take the focus away from the squads of guys.
It's a terrible marketing strategy to not announce a schedule, you need a schedule to drive sales, everyone will just stop buying things even more so than they already are and get even more frustrated with the lack of releases. You risk stalling on the hype train and impacting sales.
Better to announce the absolute NEXT thing, say that's the admech codex with marshall (assuming no more new models), then say the rest is 'coming afterwards'.
Then, once that next thing is in people's hands you announce the next thing that's on its way.
The problem they have at the moment is they set the schedule probably last year and some of those things couldn't be held back, like the Charadon book of rust, and the reason why we've already seen loads of admech datasheet leaks well before pre-order.
Ultimately all the delays have come to a head and they had no choice but to announce a slow down of releases to catch up in some way. Which i'm sure they hated but the hype train was already being derailed something chronic anyway, so they cut their losses I guess.
stonehorse wrote: Kragnos is a refreshing change for GW, it shows restraint. Most models that GW produce these days are too busy for my tastes, also makes them a pain to paint.
Kragnos is a nice clean sculpture that is posed in a way that look nice and isn't over the top, the level of ornamentation is just at the sweet spot.
If GW were to make a race of things like this, it may get me to buy some GW models, which is something I haven't done in about 3 years.
Having said that, doubt I'd use them in AoS, just port them over to Age of Fantasy Regiments.
My problem is this -
Which model would you prefer (if you were just buying a cool centre piece model)? Kroak or Kragnos?
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Sotahullu wrote: So as 40k day is planned for 2 separate days does anyone have predictions or hunch what there is going to be?
I do think we see today rest of the SoB and announcement on codex (also for AdMech).
However, I really suspect that large reveal on new orks will not happen until friday.
After all that, we may see GSC and/or Eldar if going by rumour engine.
One day will probably be SoB and AdMech as we know a fair bit about them already and i'd be surprised if there were even more new models for them both.
I'd love the 2nd day to be something new, along with an estimated schedule of Codex releases. Just having that bit of scheduling would really help make it feel like the end is in sight.
What's to preview for admech? No new models
We haven't alreaay seen, codex was already announced...not much to preview
Albino Squirrel wrote: You know, I guess modern AoS and 40K just aren't for me, but I have to say that I'm just not interested in every faction being focused on giant "centrepiece" models. I kind of liked playing with armies of miniatures representing person-sized things.
Back when I started in WHFB and 40k it was typical to have an army of normal sized things and *maybe* one or two big centrepiece models. These days it seems the other way around, and when everything is special nothing is special.
How many games of AoS have you actually played? Because most armies are not a ton of centerpiece models. Outside special cases like beastclaw raiders and mega gargants, of course.
And the same goes for 40k. Of course, we are no longer in the game were a leman russ and a dreadnought were the biggest of things. Maybe you now face a imperial guard army with 3 leman russes and a couple of vehicles and infantry, or a Tyranid list with 1 or 2 big bugs. But still, most people play armies that look just as they looked back then.
I mean. Your typical Lumineth army will have, at best, one giant cow elemental or Teclis as the only centerpiece model. The points don't allow for much else.
2-3 big cows isn't that hard actually. 2 cows same as teclis more or less
Crispy78 wrote: Yeah, I'd be pretty damn underwhelmed if the big Warhammer Fest announcement for 40K was the codex and model we already knew was coming...
Albino Squirrel wrote: You know, I guess modern AoS and 40K just aren't for me, but I have to say that I'm just not interested in every faction being focused on giant "centrepiece" models. I kind of liked playing with armies of miniatures representing person-sized things.
Back when I started in WHFB and 40k it was typical to have an army of normal sized things and *maybe* one or two big centrepiece models. These days it seems the other way around, and when everything is special nothing is special.
Same. I quit AOS back in 2019 after getting tired of bonkers free summoning and triple greater demons in every game.
I like big models, but i don't like them always dominating the game or having to field a 900 point model in a 2000 point game doing most if not all of the actual things that matter.
Yeah but the customer wants super heroes. Every time they release one of these big models it sells like absolute hotcakes. It's not my cup of tea either but unfortunately I think we're in the minority.
Albino Squirrel wrote: You know, I guess modern AoS and 40K just aren't for me, but I have to say that I'm just not interested in every faction being focused on giant "centrepiece" models. I kind of liked playing with armies of miniatures representing person-sized things.
Back when I started in WHFB and 40k it was typical to have an army of normal sized things and *maybe* one or two big centrepiece models. These days it seems the other way around, and when everything is special nothing is special.
Same. I quit AOS back in 2019 after getting tired of bonkers free summoning and triple greater demons in every game.
I like big models, but i don't like them always dominating the game or having to field a 900 point model in a 2000 point game doing most if not all of the actual things that matter.
I prefer army games. Not super hero games.
Nothing is stopping you from playing games using armies made of mostly infantry. Just because centerpiece models are a thing doesn't mean you have to use them. This is very much one of those "talk to your opponent" situations, but the minis that GW chooses to release shouldn't be keeping you from playing games that you enjoy.
Albino Squirrel wrote: You know, I guess modern AoS and 40K just aren't for me, but I have to say that I'm just not interested in every faction being focused on giant "centrepiece" models. I kind of liked playing with armies of miniatures representing person-sized things.
I love 40k, but I can relate to this sentiment. Despite being much lower model count, playing Star Wars Legion is much more satisfying at the very specific feeling of infantry-men in combat. 40k definitely is going for something very different these days.
tneva82 wrote: Based on what? Rumour engine pics that turned out to be sylvaneth?
Spoiler:
This?
That's a Genestealer not a Nid
By sylvaneth, did you mean the insect eggs that are part of the Broken Realm's release? Idk who thought that was tyranid. Ambull or vespid maybe, but Tyranid? We still have some tentacles that are still a mystery, but are definitely closer to tyranid than anything else.
yukishiro1 wrote: Yeah but the customer wants super heroes. Every time they release one of these big models it sells like absolute hotcakes. It's not my cup of tea either but unfortunately I think we're in the minority.
Absolutely. Its easier to go down to the game store with a handful of models than it is to pack an entire army of models down there and back.
Albino Squirrel wrote: You know, I guess modern AoS and 40K just aren't for me, but I have to say that I'm just not interested in every faction being focused on giant "centrepiece" models. I kind of liked playing with armies of miniatures representing person-sized things.
Back when I started in WHFB and 40k it was typical to have an army of normal sized things and *maybe* one or two big centrepiece models. These days it seems the other way around, and when everything is special nothing is special.
Same. I quit AOS back in 2019 after getting tired of bonkers free summoning and triple greater demons in every game.
I like big models, but i don't like them always dominating the game or having to field a 900 point model in a 2000 point game doing most if not all of the actual things that matter.
I prefer army games. Not super hero games.
Nothing is stopping you from playing games using armies made of mostly infantry. Just because centerpiece models are a thing doesn't mean you have to use them. This is very much one of those "talk to your opponent" situations, but the minis that GW chooses to release shouldn't be keeping you from playing games that you enjoy.
The problem is I play games to play the game. And in many cases, not stacking up on the super heroes puts you at a huge mathematical disadvantage. Playing the game on nightmare hard mode all the time is also not fun. talking to your opponent wont help that. If they bought the latest power build, they likely dont want to own models that are sub optimal just so the people that dont want to keep up with the meta can have good game. Thats simply not most peoples' problem.
Additionally I enjoy army games vastly more. So even if I could pack an army of infantry that wasn't at a huge disadvantage to the triple whatever greater demons are currently busted these days builds, if you want army on army game - AoS is definitely never going to deliver that because at least where I was at - most people like the small model builds for efficiency, painting, storage, transportation reasons and that was the common builds being seen almost exclusively.
Albino Squirrel wrote: You know, I guess modern AoS and 40K just aren't for me, but I have to say that I'm just not interested in every faction being focused on giant "centrepiece" models. I kind of liked playing with armies of miniatures representing person-sized things.
I love 40k, but I can relate to this sentiment. Despite being much lower model count, playing Star Wars Legion is much more satisfying at the very specific feeling of infantry-men in combat. 40k definitely is going for something very different these days.
Honestly, there's nothing stopping you organizing a similar game with 40K with a like minded friend. Marines with a couple of foot characters, a dread, a couple tac sqds, dev squad, assault squad and a rhino. Similar for the opponent. It's also a great way to play with a new army instead of having to wait until you have 2000pts painted.
And as always, i gotta wait for the "blog" thing where they actually post all the actual reveals i'm interesting in, without like an hour of cringe-y GW employees trying to instill the barest inch of excitement within people through way way too much talking, without caring what they're talking about half the time because they're all only interested in their own pay.
This just in - David Hasselhoff claims responsibility for bringing down the decades-old 'Chaos Wall', reuniting western Marines with their estranged eastern Daemons.
Overread wrote: Beasts of Chaos shifting to Destruction might be fine for pure beasts players, but I know a lot of Slaanesh and other mono-god armies often use Beasts of Chaos models in their forces.
That said perhaps GW is considering making the next Beasts of Chaos army split between Chaos and Destruction. Introducing two basic sub-faction groups within the battletome - one pure wild destruction and the other tainted by chaos. Limiting some of the unit options with each so that they are distinct and yet related.
Or even do what they've done with other forces that share a lot of cross over units and just have the models cross over nad have two distinct battletomes and armies - again with their own unique flavour units as well.
Sure, something like that would make sense. There are order and chaos humans* so there could be destruction and chaos beastmen.
* Weirdly, there are no destruction humans. They could and should be a thing. 'Barbarians' are a popular fantasy trope, but in Warhammer that's tied to chaos, and that is turn off to many people.
Wonder if beasts of chaos won't eventually go in Destruction as well in the future...because when you read their background in AoS, they don't really side with the Chaos gods and just want to destroy all civilisation until nothing remains. That some of them are devoted to a single Chaos god and that those are already in the said Chaos god's battletome (slaangors, tzaangors) is maybe another sign of change, when they'll really redesign the Beasts of Chaos faction in the future.
My first army was 6th edition pure BoC and that sounds awful. A huge part of the appeal for me was that they were the true sons of chaos. A gift from the Gods. It makes sense that they worship Chaos.They aren't natural, and their birth usually meant a horrific death for the mother. They were (rightly) hated and outcast from society.
I don't know enough about earlier editions, maybe they weren't such tragic and interesting creatures before. Everything gets re-written over time I guess.
It would be sad to see them become nothing more than angry Taurens. Kragnos does give off the vibes of a Destruction Beastman though. Now that I think about it... Doesn't Warcraft also have a faction of thunder stomping Centaurs? ... yawn.
A fine use of ones time!
