soviet13 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

soviet13 wrote:

Looks to me like this unit is mostly exact duplicates. 8 completely monopose figures and then the first Boy at top left can switch to a gun (second row, last but one) and the second Boy from top left can switch to the Nob. That's disappointing.

Troke did say that it was "a couple of units" of the Boyz plus the riders, Nob, and character. That would be two boxes of the Boyz, the riders, Nob, character, and book.

Sure, but I hoped the Boyz box would at least give each dude one alternate build. Imagine a whole bunch of 20-man units in a Beast Snaggas army, all incuding the same 8 dudes twice over. Awful.

Hopefully solo box at least has different poses like sisters had.

But this was forseeable thing anyway.

 Crimson wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The Orks look okay, but also weird in that there seems to be absolutely no interchangeability in them? It seems the same body is always paired with the same head, the same gun and the same axe. Makes the repeated models stand out like a sore thumb.

You'd think they'd make those bits at the least swappable for a bit of variety, if not having entire arms swappable.

It's plastic. If you have a knife, they're swappable.

Woah woah woah there bucko, that's crazy talk....

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The Orks look okay, but also weird in that there seems to be absolutely no interchangeability in them? It seems the same body is always paired with the same head, the same gun and the same axe. Makes the repeated models stand out like a sore thumb.

You'd think they'd make those bits at the least swappable for a bit of variety, if not having entire arms swappable.

I bet it's an ETB box, just like the Sisters Army Box, which later got everything relased separately as multipart kits.

What's ETB mean?

But yeah, it looks like they'll be 10 models in a box as I count 10 unique poses. The one armed with a 2 handed gun (2nd row from the top, 2nd from the right) looks to be the same body/head/shoulder as the dude in the top left who's armed with an axe, so maybe it'll be a similar deal where a box can make either slugga or shootas, but with only 1 option for each.

Rewatched twice now. Apoligies, I musta misunderstood the ramblings the first time around, thouht the kit they was talking about referred to a new kit which was just me failing at english listening comprehension test

I still hope that upgrade sprue will also be available separately, I have a box of cadians and catachans I never bothered assembling, this upgrade kit and a few extra bits might be enough to build an interesting looking kill team out of the pile. I will want to swap the arms out though!

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The Orks look okay, but also weird in that there seems to be absolutely no interchangeability in them? It seems the same body is always paired with the same head, the same gun and the same axe. Makes the repeated models stand out like a sore thumb.

You'd think they'd make those bits at the least swappable for a bit of variety, if not having entire arms swappable.

It's plastic. If you have a knife, they're swappable.

Woah woah woah there bucko, that's crazy talk....

Depends how they go together, heads might be easily swappable, might be a bit of a headache.

But conversion is always an option, it's odd that they wouldn't have that functionality out of the box.

 ceorron wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
The army box looks greatly ETB.

Do you think there will be a multipart relase of all of them kits later down the line like with Sisters and CSM.

They said yes in the video.

Unsure. They didn’t say that.
They said these models will get a release down the line, not multipart versions.
Could go either way..

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The Orks look okay, but also weird in that there seems to be absolutely no interchangeability in them? It seems the same body is always paired with the same head, the same gun and the same axe. Makes the repeated models stand out like a sore thumb.

You'd think they'd make those bits at the least swappable for a bit of variety, if not having entire arms swappable.

Maybe the full kits will be and these are like the Sisters LTD Ed box?

Sarouan wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:


It's two half hours. And I don't mind spending that time to watch, even if I don't like several previewed things.

And GW is kinda smart enough to lure some guys with the sole intent to bitch about the show on a forum into watching it.

Well yeah, that was the point of having a live everyday of this week. Making views.

But the content was clearly enough for just one day. They stretched it out quite a lot with useless chatting in these half-hours.

As there's no live event with people I can't blame them doing this. And six days with half an hour in the early evening (or whenever you want to watch it) to show some stuff and talking about it instead of hours of your weekend if you really watch the livestream on Twitch (where they do exactly the same - i.e. 'useless chatting') isn't exactly what I'd call evil or a despicable marketing move. Don't like Troke and Eccles talking about their favorites? Don't watch it and wait a few minutes after it ends to see the stuff on WarCom.

I can understand criticism about the models - but the format? Not so much.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
What's ETB mean?

Easy To Build - like some of the Primaris & Death Guard stuff was.

Even if the separate kits wouldn't be ETB, there's still a possibility that the models will be cut in a way which is only going tohether in a specific way. This seems to be the norm recently. But it's nothing a committed modeler cant convert/kitbash around, cutting plastic is a doddle!

Can't wait to see the cool new snakebite Klans people are going to be kitbashing together with these.

I’m not sure it’s an easy to build box like the Sisters one, I think it’s more like the Lumineth one. They mentioned everything in it would be available seperately, and it sounded more like they meant the exact models, not full versions. I think it’s just an unversatile kit. I think 2 of the Squig riders would probably share parts if it was E2B.

soviet13 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

soviet13 wrote:

Looks to me like this unit is mostly exact duplicates. 8 completely monopose figures and then the first Boy at top left can switch to a gun (second row, last but one) and the second Boy from top left can switch to the Nob. That's disappointing.

Troke did say that it was "a couple of units" of the Boyz plus the riders, Nob, and character. That would be two boxes of the Boyz, the riders, Nob, character, and book.

Sure, but I hoped the Boyz box would at least give each dude one alternate build. Imagine a whole bunch of 20-man units in a Beast Snaggas army, all incuding the same 8 dudes twice over. Awful.

I got the feeling that with these you don’t take loads of 20 man units.
They’re more like Nobs, 20 might be the most anyway..

The good news is that those are just half the ork models released this year... by the dark gods I think GW is aware of the marine fatigue. Honestly the fact that 40k is getting 6 new ork kits (they said orks only got half their reinforcements teased) and cadians are getting upgraded, and it looks like they are promising a TSons vs Grey knights box... without mentioning a single space marine (unless you consider grey knights or tsons space marines). They also teased new codices... I don’t play any of those factions and I am excited. I can’t wait to see what ork players will put on the table (probably in orktober if GW is smart).

 ImAGeek wrote:
I’m not sure it’s an easy to build box like the Sisters one, I think it’s more like the Lumineth one. They mentioned everything in it would be available seperately, and it sounded more like they meant the exact models, not full versions. I think it’s just an unversatile kit. I think 2 of the Squig riders would probably share parts if it was E2B.

Yeah this is what I said further up.
They said they will be available later (shortly after).
It definitely sounded like it’s these ones.
At most there’ll be a kit for the big boys.
Mounts and the hard head one, they will be exactly this.

I don’t think they are ETB. Just monopole kits.
Some of the people saying ETB probably mean that also as in times past it seems to get mixed up when people just mean ‘goes together one way’
(I know not all of you mean that, but some might, as has happened in prior discussions about releases..)

Danny76 wrote:

I got the feeling that with these you don’t take loads of 20 man units.
They’re more like Nobs, 20 might be the most anyway..

Yeah, I hope that they're kinda elitey, but still troops, so that you can fill your troop slots without having to paint a huge horde.

I can't remember the last time I have been so excited and disappointed at the same time as I am with Cadian upgrades. The new bits look great but sticking them to 18 year old models is lame, especially knowing that it will come with an improved price tag. Upgrade sprue would almost make sense if Shock Troops were available in bulk but the original sprue is so full of empty space that I don't see them returning to boxes of twenty models. New bits would have fitted into recut sprue easily, they could even have used good amount of old bits for recut sprue. Also, I remember Shock Troops having horrible mold lines the last time I bought them about 15 years ago, I dread to think how they are nowadays.

Primariz Orks aren't bad. Individual models are quite good actually. Being somewhat different style to rest of the range feels a bit awkward but I guess that is on purpose. Similar to Primaris Space Marines, Beast Snaggas have a coherent internal style which makes collecting a new army using only new models a tempting option.

It remains unclear whether the army set is similar to Sisters where exact contents are exclusive but replaced by full option kits later, or similar to Lumineth where every model is available separately later. Or a mixed approach like Shadowspear.

 Crimson wrote:

Danny76 wrote:

I got the feeling that with these you don’t take loads of 20 man units.
They’re more like Nobs, 20 might be the most anyway..

Yeah, I hope that they're kinda elitey, but still troops, so that you can fill your troop slots without having to paint a huge horde.

Yeah. For sure want them as troops..
But two ten mans filling it out would be nice.

Like with IG years back I remember it was like one troops was the cmnd, two tens, and auxiliary or something. And you had to get that twice.
Or just do the ten man vets and done.

"Greatest Warhammer fest ever!!!"

Yep, glad I didn't bother to watch this live and waste my time. Fool me once etc.

Classic GW have teasers for future teasers

Really wasn't expecting the guard upgrade. Im not a guard player but those seem fine to me. I genuinely couldn't even tell it was the old kit bodies.

So next codexes: Ad mech, Sisters, Orks, Tsons & GK. Then we be on another Sm codex after x mas because GW will be suffering severe withdrawals by then.

macluvin wrote:
The good news is that those are just half the ork models released this year... by the dark gods I think GW is aware of the marine fatigue. Honestly the fact that 40k is getting 6 new ork kits (they said orks only got half their reinforcements teased) and cadians are getting upgraded, and it looks like they are promising a TSons vs Grey knights box... without mentioning a single space marine (unless you consider grey knights or tsons space marines). They also teased new codices... I don’t play any of those factions and I am excited. I can’t wait to see what ork players will put on the table (probably in orktober if GW is smart).

We know 2 of the other kits are a squig chariot and boys with shoulder mounted heavy weapons. Kommandos could still be an option with how they mentioned them in the video.

Are these guardsmen the same kit+ new weapons and heads?

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Are these guardsmen the same kit+ new weapons and heads?

Yeah, it’s an upgrade sprue packaged with the original kit.

Really hoping for a multipart kit down the line! All the boys look like clones, not a single extra bit that I can spot!

I'm not concerned with monopose orks in this box. I still have like60 of the ones from black reach which were posable to the degree of rotating a single arm.

That's sadly what I expected. They've moved from from the interchangeable multipose paradigm.

To me they look too monopose to be a proper kit. I mean they are obviously 10x2 sprues of the same guys.

But at the same time I know expecting more than the bare minimun is not a good bet with modern 40k.

GW's loss. 3 months and we'll have plenty of 3d print options, mono and poseable.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
That's sadly what I expected. They've moved from from the interchangeable multipose paradigm.

There's a huge irony in this. There was a time where the defenders of GW's ever-increasing prices would say that the new plastic kits, even though they were more expensive than the old metal models, were better because plastic meant a greater variety of modeling options and your army would ultimately look better and more diverse than ever before.

But numerically, this never made sense. The Squat range (yes, the Squats! The ones that disappeared in 2nd edition, though not before getting a multipart plastic kit of their own) had 145 individual metal infantry models in the original RT range (excluding Chaos squats, guys on bikes/trikes, and the very rare 2nd edition squats). Good luck getting 145 different models out of any plastic kit, let alone the current monopose ones...

Why would a single kit have the diversity of an entire range?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
At that point they really just should've made a new kit.

Agreed. Still better than nothing.

Often no effort is better then half assed. This just feels like them kicking the can down the road on something they are now tacitly admitting is horridly dated.

Whats next? New Guardian defender heads? lmao

So like...this at least gives them something. What would Eldar and other players say if they did get a new full kit and all the other kits they'd need for the army?

Not Online!!! wrote:
"everyone (faction) will get their time in the sun"

yeah, sure, go feth yourself.

Oh yea...that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
The grot is a bit of an afterthought, he could have had a whole little bunker up there.

That might make a weird silhouette though.

So, unsurprisingly the boyz are mono-posed exactly in the way I predicted.

I hope you people whining for new boyz are happy now, you got exactly what you deserved.

That said, the nob on the squig is rad. I also hope the insane runtherd isn't clan-locked.

 Hollow wrote:
Why would a single kit have the diversity of an entire range?

You're right. I should have deleted out the command figures from the total, but even so there's no apples-to-apples comparison because the Squats weren't replaced with plastic ranges.

How about Eldar Guardians? One plastic box replaced 47 different metal sculpts (27 RT-era models that are pretty much guardians, 20 late RT-era hybrid models that needed plastic arms).

Or more on-topic: orks. In the RT-era we had 69 metal ork boyz (and a plastic box of 36 boyz of limited variety). The second edition range was a bit of a mess with about three different sculpts for each clan (18 sculpts + about 10 nobz). In 3rd edition we got the plastic box that's more or less the same as today's boyz.

Anyway, really my point was that at one time, one of the great advantages of the grand shift to plastic model kits was supposed to be the variety of models you could build from them. And yet here we are back to monopose models, but now much fewer in number and variety than the metal monopose models of yesteryear.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Also lol TS before CSM again.

and lol at every faction will get it's time in the sun...

"Getting it's time in the sun" includes launching an entire faction into it.

Love the new orks, but a part of me is pretty dissapointed that even in a pic with only 20 lads you could already painfully see the duplicate models. Somewhat concerning.

Man, Kirby wasn't wrong when he suggested that Warhammer players' favourite thing was buying models.

The new Cadian stuff is a little baffling, really. They're great looking parts and look like they'll add some nice variety, but the idea of just throwing some more parts into the box just seems extremely odd when it's quite an old kit now and the quality of things has improved greatly since it was made.

Monopose is clearly the way GW is going, like it or not. Unless you refuse to buy them and make it clear via feedback it's because they are monopose, they have no reason to change their approach. They're selling more currently than they can ship, they have no reason to go out of their way to try to provide you more options.

Danny76 wrote:

 ceorron wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
The army box looks greatly ETB.

Do you think there will be a multipart relase of all of them kits later down the line like with Sisters and CSM.

They said yes in the video.

Unsure. They didn’t say that.
They said these models will get a release down the line, not multipart versions.
Could go either way..

It's a Lumineth army set. That was the comparison used. It's individual kits, bundled together, for an early release.

"The only thing exclusive to this box is the cover on the army book."

Quote.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
The new Cadian stuff is a little baffling, really. They're great looking parts and look like they'll add some nice variety, but the idea of just throwing some more parts into the box just seems extremely odd when it's quite an old kit now and the quality of things has improved greatly since it was made.

Not much different than at knights getting an upgrade sprue not long after their first box came out.

Well, except that the Cadians are much older, and were bad even when they were released.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Well, except that the Cadians are much older, and were bad even when they were released.

Upgrade sprue for the Khorne Berserkers next?

 Jidmah wrote:
So, unsurprisingly the boyz are mono-posed exactly in the way I predicted.

I hope you people whining for new boyz are happy now, you got exactly what you deserved.

Kits that aren't as mindnumbingly tedious to build?

Multipose was pretty much an illusion anyways. Oh man, my Ork looks this way instead of that! Such options! Much wow!

That said, the nob on the squig is rad. I also hope the insane runtherd isn't clan-locked.

The specific statement used, repeatedly, is that he's "a rogue runtherd".

 Crimson wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Well, except that the Cadians are much older, and were bad even when they were released.

Upgrade sprue for the Khorne Berserkers next?

Please don't tempt the powers that be

Upgrade sprue for the Eldar Falcon.


Again.

angryboy2k wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
Why would a single kit have the diversity of an entire range?

You're right. I should have deleted out the command figures from the total, but even so there's no apples-to-apples comparison because the Squats weren't replaced with plastic ranges.

How about Eldar Guardians? One plastic box replaced 47 different metal sculpts (27 RT-era models that are pretty much guardians, 20 late RT-era hybrid models that needed plastic arms).

Or more on-topic: orks. In the RT-era we had 69 metal ork boyz (and a plastic box of 36 boyz of limited variety). The second edition range was a bit of a mess with about three different sculpts for each clan (18 sculpts + about 10 nobz). In 3rd edition we got the plastic box that's more or less the same as today's boyz.

Anyway, really my point was that at one time, one of the great advantages of the grand shift to plastic model kits was supposed to be the variety of models you could build from them. And yet here we are back to monopose models, but now much fewer in number and variety than the metal monopose models of yesteryear.

Its been a big loss in therms of unique minis and the grand argument was, you know, metal is very expensive and plastics are very very cheap... (similar argument was Finecast is the best ever thing, a revolution) Some arguments stick others fall short.
For a reason metal miniatures were small scaled and packed with micro detail and textures, that is long gone, now you have flat, clean, huge surfaces and minis increasing in size. Those metal days are long gone in GW. Sorry for tangent.
20 or so years from now I will have my metal minis like little trophies of craftsmanship in a display... and plastics on a cardbox hidden away.
Sorry for tangent. But glad someone remembers that in therms of unique sculpts we have less now and a lot less worth collecting or remembering.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Well, except that the Cadians are much older, and were bad even when they were released.

Upgrade sprue for the Khorne Berserkers next?

Please don't tempt the powers that be

Now hold the phone...Khorne Berzerker as an upgrade sprue could work with the new CSM, right?

I hope you people whining for new boyz are happy now, you got exactly what you deserved.

Weren't people asking for "real" new Boyz and not these Prima-Boyz which are tied to a particular subfaction ?

 Crimson wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Well, except that the Cadians are much older, and were bad even when they were released.

Upgrade sprue for the Khorne Berserkers next?

No. An upgrade sprue for the Age of Sigmar Blood Warriors so they can be used as Berserkers

Danny76 wrote:

 ceorron wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
The army box looks greatly ETB.

Do you think there will be a multipart relase of all of them kits later down the line like with Sisters and CSM.

They said yes in the video.

Unsure. They didn’t say that.
They said these models will get a release down the line, not multipart versions.
Could go either way..

Well even if it was multipart it would be just weapon options. Maybe alternative heads for each body(which neccessarly don't fit other bodies)

 Kanluwen wrote:

Now hold the phone...Khorne Berzerker as an upgrade sprue could work with the new CSM, right?

Yes, definitely.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The Orks look okay, but also weird in that there seems to be absolutely no interchangeability in them? It seems the same body is always paired with the same head, the same gun and the same axe. Makes the repeated models stand out like a sore thumb.

You'd think they'd make those bits at the least swappable for a bit of variety, if not having entire arms swappable.

Maybe the full kits will be and these are like the Sisters LTD Ed box?

Sister box doesn't much reduce standing out as they are monoposes as well


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'm not concerned with monopose orks in this box. I still have like60 of the ones from black reach which were posable to the degree of rotating a single arm.

The way kits are designed these days rotating arm will likely require cutting and sculpting. Not something i can do. Alas that's just gw style these days


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Selfcontrol wrote:

I hope you people whining for new boyz are happy now, you got exactly what you deserved.

Weren't people asking for "real" new Boyz and not these Prima-Boyz which are tied to a particular subfaction ?

And which subfaction that is? They are no more subfaction locked than buggies or bikers are

tneva82 wrote:

The way kits are designed these days rotating arm will likely require cutting and sculpting. Not something i can do. Alas that's just gw style these days

It's never too late to learn. Once you've gotten the hang of it, you can get so much more out of this hobby.
Colour Shaper pens were a fething revelation to me.

 Jidmah wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Also lol TS before CSM again.

and lol at every faction will get it's time in the sun...

"Getting it's time in the sun" includes launching an entire faction into it.

Yup, and as much i Like some of the new orks , that statement was insulting for guard or the Players of factions that got recently legended....

And which subfaction that is? They are no more subfaction locked than buggies or bikers are

You know what I meant.

They are not "Boyz". They are "Beast Snaggas Boyz" : different options (they don't seem to have access to shootas or big shootas for example), different datasheet (they are supposed to be "stronger" than regular Boyz) different design and probably more expensive point-wise.

 Ghaz wrote:

We gonna talk about the dude sniffing panties?

They'll have Beast-Sluggas that are exactly like the normal Sluggas except with -1AP, and Beast Choppas that are...yeah, you guessed it, Choppas with -1AP. +1W, +1A. A bunch of exclusive stratagems.

angryboy2k wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
That's sadly what I expected. They've moved from from the interchangeable multipose paradigm.

There's a huge irony in this. There was a time where the defenders of GW's ever-increasing prices would say that the new plastic kits, even though they were more expensive than the old metal models, were better because plastic meant a greater variety of modeling options and your army would ultimately look better and more diverse than ever before.

But numerically, this never made sense. The Squat range (yes, the Squats! The ones that disappeared in 2nd edition, though not before getting a multipart plastic kit of their own) had 145 individual metal infantry models in the original RT range (excluding Chaos squats, guys on bikes/trikes, and the very rare 2nd edition squats). Good luck getting 145 different models out of any plastic kit, let alone the current monopose ones...

^ an absurdly bad faith take

If you look at this image ... http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/rt302squatcmd/fly8801r3-rt302x-01.jpg ... and see 12 "individual" models instead of 4, your brain's a-jumbled.

Trying to claim metal miniatures as unique when they're all based on the same foundation and only have variation in their heads, weapons, accessories, etc. is ridiculous. It's particularly ridiculous when you use that canard as a means of going in on monopose models, since, hilariously, monopose models are only usually able to be differentiated by.... heads, weapons, accessories, etc.

 Crimson wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Well, except that the Cadians are much older, and were bad even when they were released.

Upgrade sprue for the Khorne Berserkers next?

Dear me, don't give them ideas....

Tiberias wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Well, except that the Cadians are much older, and were bad even when they were released.

Upgrade sprue for the Khorne Berserkers next?

Dear me, don't give them ideas....

It would help....drive them even more bloodthirsty!

 Altruizine wrote:

^ an absurdly bad faith take

If you look at this image ... http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/rt302squatcmd/fly8801r3-rt302x-01.jpg ... and see 12 "individual" models instead of 4, your brain's a-jumbled.

Trying to claim metal miniatures as unique when they're all based on the same foundation and only have variation in their heads, weapons, accessories, etc. is ridiculous. It's particularly ridiculous when you use that canard as a means of going in on monopose models, since, hilariously, monopose models are only usually able to be differentiated by.... heads, weapons, accessories, etc.

The command models for squats were obviously done in threes from the same base models. But please take a look at a larger view of the range:
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Squat_-_Collectors_Guide

The variety is FAR greater than that provided by multipart kits. If you wish to continue to believe that multipart plastics provided more variety than the old metal ranges, knock yourself out. I'll continue to disagree.

As an aside, back in the day it was far easier for Citadel to add a bunch of new models to a range. If one of their sculptors bashed out a bunch of new greens they could be easily and cheaply molded and put into productions. Plastic production is much more rigid and it leaves you with situations like the Cadian one, where we've waited 18 years for... yeah, an upgrade sprue.

I should have used this example in the first place, but Imperial Guard: go and take a look at the variety in RT Imperial Guard and then consider how that lines up against the Cadian multipart kit.
55 individuals in this list:
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Imperial_Army_-_Up_to_the_1988_Catalogue
and a similar number here although a bunch of these (maybe all) are repeats - I've not checked them all:
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Imperial_Guard_-_1988_to_1994

Oof.

The Cadian sprues are terrible, whoever greenlit that needs to be canned asap. Feels like kick to the nuts for guard players.

Is the psychic war another Psychic Awakening book series?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
GW's loss. 3 months and we'll have plenty of 3d print options, mono and poseable.

Doesn't matter. The 3d print market is already full of these. Still, they don't seem to manage to give the same plastic we enjoy to build. Or aren't as glorious when you print it on your low-cost printer that you can only afford with your salary / space at home.

No, it must be GW holding this 3d print revolution back. Give it just 3 more months !

Like it will change anything, really.

Togusa wrote:
Oof.

The Cadian sprues are terrible, whoever greenlit that needs to be canned asap. Feels like kick to the nuts for guard players.

Is the psychic war another Psychic Awakening book series?

One of those battle boxes by the looks of things; Grey Knights vs Thousand Sons.

Upscaled Grey Knights would be right up my alley. Along with a new Inquisitor and retinue of course.

The Cadian sprue is insulting. Especially since FW used to sell upgrade kits a while back(which are now gone forever like most of the good stuff). Taking something away from us, making it worse and giving it back expecting people to be excited is not fun.

I'm unsure what to think about the upgrade. On one hand it means I wouldn't need to replace my eighteen years work of Cadians and have a few years of half the army looking out of scale next to the new kits (if I bought into them at all). On the other hand, I can't say I'm thrilled we lost the existing FW respirators. Although I don't need to buy anymore, I wonder what the price increase will look like on this box now.

Togusa wrote:

Is the psychic war another Psychic Awakening book series?

Probably a Versus box like Piety and Pain, most likely with the new HQ.

 BertBert wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

The way kits are designed these days rotating arm will likely require cutting and sculpting. Not something i can do. Alas that's just gw style these days

It's never too late to learn. Once you've gotten the hang of it, you can get so much more out of this hobby.
Colour Shaper pens were a fething revelation to me.

off topic, but what are color shaper pens?

I'm split on the Guard upgrade sprue.

On the one hand, I see it as a potentially positive indication that a plastic guard regiment is in fact coming, just not Cadians obviously. I can't say I am all too bothered by this and could actually be a nice way of keeping the Cadian line pretty relevant and redoing Catachans which are far worse sculpts. Or perhaps even an entirely new regiment in plastic.

If nothing develops though, this would be a really disappointing guard update. I'm hopeful this is just an extra and new guard will come with a codex.

 lord marcus wrote:


off topic, but what are color shaper pens?

Imagine a brush with a rubber tip. They will adjust to pressure and resistance which makes them great for smoothing out surfaces and creating round shapes (contrary to metal/wooden tools).

I use them extensively to sculpt things like shoulders/armpits/necks whenever I want to cut off a limb and reposition it.

 lord marcus wrote:

 BertBert wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

The way kits are designed these days rotating arm will likely require cutting and sculpting. Not something i can do. Alas that's just gw style these days

It's never too late to learn. Once you've gotten the hang of it, you can get so much more out of this hobby.
Colour Shaper pens were a fething revelation to me.

off topic, but what are color shaper pens?

Colour shapers are silicone tipped tools which are by far the best things to use as sculpting tool when working with green stuff. They make sculpting far easier because the gs doesn’t stick to the silicone.

The cadians haven't aged as badly as eldar guardians...so at least that's something. I'd rather they kept cadians the same and redid vostroyans/steel legion or something else as part of the range. Would be cool to have multiple regiments with plastic options.

 Thargrim wrote:
The cadians haven't aged as badly as eldar guardians...

Hard disagree. Guardians are boring and samey, but their proportions and overall design is fine.

BertBert wrote:

 lord marcus wrote:


off topic, but what are color shaper pens?

Imagine a brush with a rubber tip. They will adjust to pressure and resistance which makes them great for smoothing out surfaces and creating round shapes (contrary to metal/wooden tools).

I use them extensively to sculpt things like shoulders/armpits/necks whenever I want to cut off a limb and reposition it.

Thargrim wrote:The cadians haven't aged as badly as eldar guardians...so at least that's something. I'd rather they kept cadians the same and redid vostroyans/steel legion or something else as part of the range. Would be cool to have multiple regiments with plastic options.

Thank you gents! Exalted you both.

I'm wondering why they are called "colour" shapers, when they are a sculpting tool, but I can do some research and figure it out.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 lord marcus wrote:

 BertBert wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

The way kits are designed these days rotating arm will likely require cutting and sculpting. Not something i can do. Alas that's just gw style these days

It's never too late to learn. Once you've gotten the hang of it, you can get so much more out of this hobby.
Colour Shaper pens were a fething revelation to me.

off topic, but what are color shaper pens?

Colour shapers are silicone tipped tools which are by far the best things to use as sculpting tool when working with green stuff. They make sculpting far easier because the gs doesn’t stick to the silicone.

thank you i have just ordered some. why did i not know about these before??

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
At that point they really just should've made a new kit.

Agreed. Still better than nothing.

Often no effort is better then half assed. This just feels like them kicking the can down the road on something they are now tacitly admitting is horridly dated.

Whats next? New Guardian defender heads? lmao

So like...this at least gives them something. What would Eldar and other players say if they did get a new full kit and all the other kits they'd need for the army?

Not Online!!! wrote:
"everyone (faction) will get their time in the sun"

yeah, sure, go feth yourself.

Oh yea...that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
The grot is a bit of an afterthought, he could have had a whole little bunker up there.

That might make a weird silhouette though.

At this stage Eldar players would be happy with plastic upgrade sprues if that's all we was getting lol...

Eldar players have been wondering why on earth there isint a shining spear plastic upgrade sprue.. We already have decent plastic jetbikes...

Likewise Id be down for a plstic storm guardian upgrade sprue or another a variant for banshees.

I feel like we need to quell the "New Grey Knights" idea pretty fast.

I could be wrong, but there's a pretty big chance all we're getting is Stern or whoever the grey knight is. No new dreadknight, etc.

It's very rare for GW to do a battle box that introduces something other than a new hero for either side of the boxset. Blood of the Phoenix had four new models total, but we've seen the tzaangor before, so don't hold your breath. d

I think 100 of theseETB beast snagga boyz will look way better than 100 of the current multipose or boys. If the monpose style is a pretty neutral pose it can repeat a bunch and look ok. If multi pose get too far from “as intended” they tend to look bad. Both require a knife and maybe some green stuff to get more variety that looks good.

Either/Or wrote:
I think 100 of theseETB beast snagga boyz will look way better than 100 of the current multipose or boys. If the monpose style is a pretty neutral pose it can repeat a bunch and look ok. If multi pose get too far from “as intended” they tend to look bad. Both require a knife and maybe some green stuff to get more variety that looks good.

I respectfully disagree

So.... orks. Not a shock.
A 'preview' box is... interesting. I guess its a way to split up product demand and rebuild stock for the actual release, so... whatever. I just wish it weren't quite so dull. 2 squads of monopose Better Boyz and a handful of cav. Plus an SC of dubious value (a grot specialist with no grots...)

Megaboss is nice. More to come is hopeful

The shown beastsnaggas being 'only half' of the release is kinda sad, since the beastsnaggas are, at the moment, two kits. I was expecting a bit more (whether counting or not counting the Better Doc, Megaboss and Wortsnagga).
---

Cadian upgrade sprue is... nice, I guess? If it doesn't absurdly raise the price of an already overpriced kit.
IMO, though, it brings the hammer down on the idea of new guard.

---
Thousand sons vs Grey Knights is kinda interesting.
There's potential there, assuming it isn't just a few character models facing off a Versus Box of old stuff.
Glad to see them added to the lineup of 'Soon' (Summer-ish, probably?) either way.

So snakebites, why don’t they just call them snakebites?

Also the guard upgrade sprue, for old bad models is not what guard players have been waiting for. Knowing GW they won’t sell it separately as well, expecting you to buy a new squad box to get it.

Their creating a bit of bad blood this week. Tomorrow’s surprise better be a good one. (Full sized plastic thunderhawk good!)

 Tamereth wrote:
So snakebites, why don’t they just call them snakebites?

Also the guard upgrade sprue, for old bad models is not what guard players have been waiting for. Knowing GW they won’t sell it separately as well, expecting you to buy a new squad box to get it.

Their creating a bit of bad blood this week. Tomorrow’s surprise better be a good one. (Full sized plastic thunderhawk good!)

Because they’re not Snakebites, and you can use them in any klan.

The Dreadknight in the video looks like it's got a proper armour plate at the front, which is cool.

The Knight looks like Castellan Crow, and appears not to be Primarised. Interesting.

Their creating a bit of bad blood this week. Tomorrow’s surprise better be a good one. (Full sized plastic thunderhawk good!)

Mark my words. Tommorrow's surprise will be unrelated to the tabletop games.

It will be something about animations or TV or even a movie.

They're snakebites if you want them to be

Yeah, I'm expecting that too. They've been closing on the animation a lot in previews. And bringing up new ones rather than announcing a date or platform for the ones they've been going on about for... chaos gods know how long now.

Abaddon303 wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 lord marcus wrote:

 BertBert wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

The way kits are designed these days rotating arm will likely require cutting and sculpting. Not something i can do. Alas that's just gw style these days

It's never too late to learn. Once you've gotten the hang of it, you can get so much more out of this hobby.
Colour Shaper pens were a fething revelation to me.

off topic, but what are color shaper pens?

Colour shapers are silicone tipped tools which are by far the best things to use as sculpting tool when working with green stuff. They make sculpting far easier because the gs doesn’t stick to the silicone.

thank you i have just ordered some. why did i not know about these before??

I don't know and honestly I don't know why GW hasn't rebranded a set of their own. They are awesome tools and a must have for working with putties.

Note they come in many shapes but also 3 colours. Black are the firmest, then grey then white. Of course even the black is very soft and smooth, though working one to the next you can really smooth over a surface. It cuts down on sanding and such a lot.

lord marcus wrote:

BertBert wrote:

 lord marcus wrote:


off topic, but what are color shaper pens?

Imagine a brush with a rubber tip. They will adjust to pressure and resistance which makes them great for smoothing out surfaces and creating round shapes (contrary to metal/wooden tools).

I use them extensively to sculpt things like shoulders/armpits/necks whenever I want to cut off a limb and reposition it.

Thargrim wrote:The cadians haven't aged as badly as eldar guardians...so at least that's something. I'd rather they kept cadians the same and redid vostroyans/steel legion or something else as part of the range. Would be cool to have multiple regiments with plastic options.

Thank you gents! Exalted you both.

I'm wondering why they are called "colour" shapers, when they are a sculpting tool, but I can do some research and figure it out.

They are also called clayshapers.
They are used in other arts and crafts and happen to also work really well with miniature sculpting. Heck in general any "clay" tools work for miniature sculpting.


Note greenstuff and other putties can still stick to them so it still helps to keep them wet with water. Also do keep the tips away from superglues as they will make a total mess of them



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:
Yeah, I'm expecting that too. They've been closing on the animation a lot in previews. And bringing up new ones rather than announcing a date or platform for the ones they've been going on about for... chaos gods know how long now.

I think the animations got hit hard with corona. That said I do agree they've been teasing them a lot and I've lost track of even a casual idea how many or what numbers there are, esp as a few are clearly "adventure of the week" style formats. I'd love for one or two to get out into the wild to be seen.

 ceorron wrote:
Really not keen on the new Zodgrod, looks kinda bland for a special character the hair being an exception to that.

The what, now?

Zodgrod is possibly my new favourite Ork model ever.

angryboy2k wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

^ an absurdly bad faith take

If you look at this image ... http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/rt302squatcmd/fly8801r3-rt302x-01.jpg ... and see 12 "individual" models instead of 4, your brain's a-jumbled.

Trying to claim metal miniatures as unique when they're all based on the same foundation and only have variation in their heads, weapons, accessories, etc. is ridiculous. It's particularly ridiculous when you use that canard as a means of going in on monopose models, since, hilariously, monopose models are only usually able to be differentiated by.... heads, weapons, accessories, etc.

The command models for squats were obviously done in threes from the same base models. But please take a look at a larger view of the range:
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Squat_-_Collectors_Guide

The variety is FAR greater than that provided by multipart kits. If you wish to continue to believe that multipart plastics provided more variety than the old metal ranges, knock yourself out. I'll continue to disagree.

As an aside, back in the day it was far easier for Citadel to add a bunch of new models to a range. If one of their sculptors bashed out a bunch of new greens they could be easily and cheaply molded and put into productions. Plastic production is much more rigid and it leaves you with situations like the Cadian one, where we've waited 18 years for... yeah, an upgrade sprue.

I should have used this example in the first place, but Imperial Guard: go and take a look at the variety in RT Imperial Guard and then consider how that lines up against the Cadian multipart kit.
55 individuals in this list:
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Imperial_Army_-_Up_to_the_1988_Catalogue
and a similar number here although a bunch of these (maybe all) are repeats - I've not checked them all:
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Imperial_Guard_-_1988_to_1994

In this post: a guy complaining about monopose plastics by pointing out the "superiority" of monopose metal minis.

Hate to burst your bubble dude, but having 155 different sculpts or whatever doesn't make them non-monopose minis, nor does it make them superior to plastics. Of those 150 or so minis you're probably looking at a total of about 40-50 actual poses, of which only may be 20 or so are actually distinct (as in varied enough to be noticeable from 3 feet away and not just a slight difference in the angle in which the gun is being held). The vast majority of those sculpts are simply permutations of the same core handful of sculpts achieved by swapping out arms/legs/weapons/heads in order to create very slight variations on the appearance. Heres the thing about that - GWs monopose plastics allow you to do the same *exact* thing by giving you alternative heads, weapons, and accessories that *you* get to swap in and out on your minis the way you want them to be, as opposed to having to hunt through blisters for the exact specific sculpt pre-set you were looking for. And as for quantity, you can come up with a similar number of "distinct" plastic sisters across their minis range through that same process.

Doesn't matter. The 3d print market is already full of these. Still, they don't seem to manage to give the same plastic we enjoy to build. Or aren't as glorious when you print it on your low-cost printer that you can only afford with your salary / space at home.

No, it must be GW holding this 3d print revolution back. Give it just 3 more months !

Like it will change anything, really.

Yeah this communities attitude towards 3d printing has become kinda laughable. I own a small 3d miniatures company, I've sunk a lot of time and money into 3d printing miniatures (both my own and minis sculpted by others). As nice as a lot of it is, I'd still rather have GWs hard plastics. And despite the insistence that 3d printing will kill GW or whatever, the community still goes nuts whenever another company releases a new plastic miniatures kit, even if the detail and quality is mediocre compared to what you might otherwise be able to get from a 3d printed mini instead.

It's very rare for GW to do a battle box that introduces something other than a new hero for either side of the boxset. Blood of the Phoenix had four new models total, but we've seen the tzaangor before, so don't hold your breath.

I don't entirely disagree with you, but it bares mentioning that every once in a while GW does release a wave of new minis in a box set - Feast of Bones for example was the first time that any of the Ossiarch Bonereapers minis were made available. Also Blood of the Phoenix had 4 new *units* - 2 character models, new Howling Banshees (5 models), and new Incubi (5 models). Wrath & Rapture was similar, they gave us 2 characters, a unit of fiends, and a unit of flesh hounds. And then of course there are boxes like Shadowspear which gave us an entire box of all new minis.

The dream is alive, folks.

Looking ahead to tomorrow it might be a new edition of Kill Team and Soulblights for Warcry.

AoS 3rd edition will probably be announced in a following preview.

#doubt

But if its true I will be over the fething moon.

OVER. THE. fething. MOON.

Not just because I prefer 15mm scale, but because the rage in the facebook community will be *amazing*.

God I hope its true.

chaos0xomega wrote:


In this post: a guy complaining about monopose plastics by pointing out the "superiority" of monopose metal minis.

Hate to burst your bubble dude, but having 155 different sculpts or whatever doesn't make them non-monopose minis, nor does it make them superior to plastics.

:(
I'm not pointing out the superiority. I'm saying there was more variety than people think there was, and that it's ironic since just a few years ago people were saying that the great benefit of plastic kits is the multiposeability and variety, and yet now, here we are: a handful of monopose plastic miniatures that are less varied than the ranges of metal miniatures of old...

I know you've been around long enough to have lived through this change yourself and seen the attitudes I'm referring to. (In fact, I'm pretty sure you and I have talked in other forums in the past (eBay? Yahoo's CCM group? Portent/Warseer? Some BFG forum somewhere?))

FWIW I like these orks quite a lot, monopose or not... I don't think I've complained about them at all.
In fact, there's a possibility that deep inside, I prefer monopose models (which is why I loved metal models back in the day, and I've amassed a large number of Deathguard because of their monopose variety).

 BertBert wrote:
The dream is alive, folks.

I'm going to laugh and laugh if it turns out that Old World is 15mm. I've had that suspicion for ages now, and I get shouted down by the "Nuh-uh, it's totally 28mm!!!!" crowd every time I mention it.

The Cadian upgrade sprue is awesome. I think my favourite part is the obvious print lines on the special weapons...


Aside from being monopose kits, I love the Beast Snaggas.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
'Oh you want a mega armoured Warboss?
Well yeeeesss we can help with that!
Oh, what's that? We gave the model a weapon which will invalidate everyone's' existing models?
Ooh how silly of us!'

A weapon is an easy fix. It could have been worse... instead of a Mega Armoured Warboss, they could have released six different monopose 'Warboss in SupaDupa Armour' kits...

The new Cadian sprue looks a'ight, and if it were being sold as a pure upgrade I'd be a little stoked. It driving up the cost of the infantry squad box (Which I still remember as a $40 box of 20 guardsmen.) will be rough. Should buy a couple more boxes at the current price before it gets added unless you want plasma in every squad.

I'm very happy that they're not scrapping the modular nature of the current Cadian minatures though. I love that about them.

And the Orks look like barbarous vile xenos to die before my flamers, so that's good.

I will say this about multipart vs monopose; monopose is generally superior in terms of the individual models, and gives better variation on poses. But multipart models are easier to kitbash and convert and that should be worth something. People ignore the actual virtue of multipart models and pursue this fantasy that 28mm multipart models can actually be posed in a bunch of different ways when really it’s just a few variations on how the torso is turned from the legs, how high or low the gun is aiming in the same direction, the direction the head is turning, and whether the pistol is pointing up in the air, towards an enemy, or something... and maybe the angle the close combat weapon arm is angled. Admittedly though kits like the chaos space marine raptors kit offered a bit of variety for poses and dynamic looks of the models, but it really doesn’t look that different with posing for most models, especially generic infantry.

The real magic of multipart models is variations of interchangeable parts and ease of converting, not the posing. Converting ETB/monopose models isn’t impossible but i is more work than I am willing to do comparatively.

angryboy2k wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


In this post: a guy complaining about monopose plastics by pointing out the "superiority" of monopose metal minis.

Hate to burst your bubble dude, but having 155 different sculpts or whatever doesn't make them non-monopose minis, nor does it make them superior to plastics.

:(
I'm not pointing out the superiority. I'm saying there was more variety than people think there was, and that it's ironic since just a few years ago people were saying that the great benefit of plastic kits is the multiposeability and variety, and yet now, here we are: a handful of monopose plastic miniatures that are less varied than the ranges of metal miniatures of old...

I know you've been around long enough to have lived through this change yourself and seen the attitudes I'm referring to. (In fact, I'm pretty sure you and I have talked in other forums in the past (eBay? Yahoo's CCM group? Portent/Warseer?))

FWIW I like these orks quite a lot, monopose or not... I don't think I've complained about them at all.

Sorry, I'm just getting fed up with the "debate" about monopose/multipose plastics and you were a convenient "target" for my rage I guess. I think the arguments against GW minis are overblown - GWs plastics are better quality and more detailed than they have *ever* been, and in large part thats because monopose comes with serious mold engineering benefits that allow them to pack greater levels of detail and hide things like mold lines, etc. that wouldn't otherwise be possible. There are advantages and disadvantages to both for sure, but the multipose side is IMO being pretty damned silly about the whole thing. Thats not to say I don't necessarily miss certain aspects of the multipose approach, but 99.9% of the advantages inherent to them have nothing to do with unique/dynamic posing of the models themselves and instead are centered around ease of convertability and interchangeability with other kits.

But yeah, I've been around on all of those other places over the years

macluvin wrote:
I will say this about multipart vs monopose; monopose is generally superior in terms of the individual models, and gives better variation on poses. But multipart models are easier to kitbash and convert and that should be worth something. People ignore the actual virtue of multipart models and pursue this fantasy that 28mm multipart models can actually be posed in a bunch of different ways when really it’s just a few variations on how the torso is turned from the legs, how high or low the gun is aiming in the same direction, the direction the head is turning, and whether the pistol is pointing up in the air, towards an enemy, or something... and maybe the angle the close combat weapon arm is angled. Admittedly though kits like the chaos space marine raptors kit offered a bit of variety for poses and dynamic looks of the models, but it really doesn’t look that different with posing for most models, especially generic infantry.

The real magic of multipart models is variations of interchangeable parts and ease of converting, not the posing. Converting ETB/monopose models isn’t impossible but i is more work than I am willing to do comparatively.

I do think there is a potential that gw is moving toward less homogenized parts / mono pose in order to cut down on the ability for 3rd party producers to make alternatives and bits for their miniatures.

Anyone else getting the feeling the mystery reveal will be another animation trailer?

 Mr. Grey wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
The dream is alive, folks.

I'm going to laugh and laugh if it turns out that Old World is 15mm. I've had that suspicion for ages now, and I get shouted down by the "Nuh-uh, it's totally 28mm!!!!" crowd every time I mention it.

15mm Old World would actually make me care about the "Old World." Though...I doubt it. I mean, If I want to play 28MM fantasy, I'll just play with my AoS models which are far superior in terms of rules and models anyway. Brining back the Old World is weird because I highly doubt even 10% of the people they pissed off when they blew it up will come back. New fans are going to say "I've already bought into AoS, and have round based models, why do I need squares?" To be honest, I'd personally have rather had the resources being wasted on brining back the Old World spent on new AoS factions/Updates to existing factions, or given to the specialist games team for things like AT, AI, and possibly things like BFG or Epic.

 insaniak wrote:
The Cadian upgrade sprue is awesome. I think my favourite part is the obvious print lines on the special weapons...

They tend to use printed versions of the kit to paint for box art or display purposes due to advance times on printed materials vs actually producing the sprues. I remember the plastic valkyrie kit had the resin fw version painted up and used for the box art.

Not interested in monopose orcs.

I'm stunned by the Cadian update.

So now they can increase the price of a 20 year old kit with a lazy upgrade sprue. Great. This could mean no IG update for another 10 years, or maybe they're just keeping the grognards (who like their squat mutants) happy for now and will eventually release some 'not Cadians'.

Togusa wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
The dream is alive, folks.

I'm going to laugh and laugh if it turns out that Old World is 15mm. I've had that suspicion for ages now, and I get shouted down by the "Nuh-uh, it's totally 28mm!!!!" crowd every time I mention it.

15mm Old World would actually make me care about the "Old World." Though...I doubt it. I mean, If I want to play 28MM fantasy, I'll just play with my AoS models which are far superior in terms of rules and models anyway. Brining back the Old World is weird because I highly doubt even 10% of the people they pissed off when they blew it up will come back. New fans are going to say "I've already bought into AoS, and have round based models, why do I need squares?" To be honest, I'd personally have rather had the resources being wasted on brining back the Old World spent on new AoS factions/Updates to existing factions, or given to the specialist games team for things like AT, AI, and possibly things like BFG or Epic.

Total Warhammer has brought a lot of interest back into the old world setting

 Mr. Grey wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
The dream is alive, folks.

I'm going to laugh and laugh if it turns out that Old World is 15mm. I've had that suspicion for ages now, and I get shouted down by the "Nuh-uh, it's totally 28mm!!!!" crowd every time I mention it.

Same. On some level I feel like I started it, when the first news about The Old World broke I made some comments here, on reddit, facebook, and in a couple other places to the effect of "it would be awesome if the game was warmaster scale", etc. - like *immediately* after the news broke, within seconds - I was one of the first to comment on the various social media posts and forum threads, etc. *Immediately* I was getting shouting down by arseholes insisting that the only thing it ever possibly could be is legacy 28mm in the exact same scale as the original (never mind the fact that GW doesn't actually design 28mm minis anymore and all their new releases going back 5 or so years have been in the 32-35mm range).

Personally - I don't really care what scale its in, I want a 10-15mm scale game because I like minis of that scale, theres a big hole in the market for fantasy minis in that scale range, and im of the opinion that its the largest scale at which you can do a mass battle rank and file/rank and flank minis game (yes I know there are games that do it at 28mm, I've played or tried many/most of them, I find them to be overwhelmingly mediocre as they have to make a lot of sacrifices to work with the large footprint that blocks of infantry and cavalry occupy on the table). If it is a 28+mm scale game, I'll probably still buy it anyway. My stance has never been that the game will be one scale or another, only that there is the possibility that it might be in a scale other than 28mm, and I would welcome it openly if it was... the "purists" out there, on the other hand, can't seem to approach the discussion in good faith and see no other possibility but 28mm - the worst of whom seem to think that GW is actually just going to re-release all the legacy WHFB minis and life is going to go back to "normal" as if they were never discontinued in the first place.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Sorry, I'm just getting fed up with the "debate" about monopose/multipose plastics and you were a convenient "target" for my rage I guess. I think the arguments against GW minis are overblown - GWs plastics are better quality and more detailed than they have *ever* been, and in large part thats because monopose comes with serious mold engineering benefits that allow them to pack greater levels of detail and hide things like mold lines, etc. that wouldn't otherwise be possible. There are advantages and disadvantages to both for sure, but the multipose side is IMO being pretty damned silly about the whole thing. Thats not to say I don't necessarily miss certain aspects of the multipose approach, but 99.9% of the advantages inherent to them have nothing to do with unique/dynamic posing of the models themselves and instead are centered around ease of convertability and interchangeability with other kits.

We've possibly got similar viewpoints on this in a way. The monopose kits bring back some of what I loved about the best of the metal range: we get better-looking figures that are well-posed and beautifully detailed and less hassle to put together than a bunch of disparate parts that are a compromise between pose and physical fit. The old Necron warriors are a great example of how multipart models offer zero advantage over near-monopose plastics; they are a pain to put together and in the end your army doesn't look any better or more varied than the current unposeable warriors.

I think the bigger issue is less with the models and more with the rules. GW's decision to eliminate rules for models that no longer exist is a real shame and makes the monopose range a bit of a bitter pill. If people who wanted to could still chop figures up and actually be able to field them, maybe they'd not be as bothered by the monopose range.

I doubt it will be 15mm, but it'd be quite the surprise!

As for the orks, they look decent. Still not fan of the new pale green they paint them in, but they definitely look better than the 20yo kit.

The guards...just what the heck were they thinking.

IHateAoS wrote:
Not interested in monopose orcs.

I'm stunned by the Cadian update.

So now they can increase the price of a 20 year old kit with a lazy upgrade sprue. Great. This could mean no IG update for another 10 years, or maybe they're just keeping the grognards (who like their squat mutants) happy for now and will eventually release some 'not Cadians'.

Simmer down there. There are literally clear examples of new Guard models in the Rumor Engine pictures. It may not be Cadians, it could be a guard version of Snaggas. "Cawls Defense Forces" or something like that which could be taken by any regiment, but have special equipment and better training. Also, while the upgrade sprue might seem lazy, I'm already seeing extremely positive reactions to it online and irl. It's smart by business standards and extends the life of the models.

 Sledgehammer wrote:

macluvin wrote:
I will say this about multipart vs monopose; monopose is generally superior in terms of the individual models, and gives better variation on poses. But multipart models are easier to kitbash and convert and that should be worth something. People ignore the actual virtue of multipart models and pursue this fantasy that 28mm multipart models can actually be posed in a bunch of different ways when really it’s just a few variations on how the torso is turned from the legs, how high or low the gun is aiming in the same direction, the direction the head is turning, and whether the pistol is pointing up in the air, towards an enemy, or something... and maybe the angle the close combat weapon arm is angled. Admittedly though kits like the chaos space marine raptors kit offered a bit of variety for poses and dynamic looks of the models, but it really doesn’t look that different with posing for most models, especially generic infantry.

The real magic of multipart models is variations of interchangeable parts and ease of converting, not the posing. Converting ETB/monopose models isn’t impossible but i is more work than I am willing to do comparatively.

I do think there is a potential that gw is moving toward less homogenized parts / mono pose in order to cut down on the ability for 3rd party producers to make alternatives and bits for their miniatures.

Thats a good part of it, alongside upscaling the minis from 28mm to the new 32-35mm ish standard (which is mostly to combat the use of 3rd party fantasy/scifi/historical minis as stand-ins for Age of Sigmar/fantasy and their guard range). The aftermarket/3rd party industry has been kind of slow to realize it, and competitors in the plastics space (like warlord and mantic) can't easily make the adjustment as many manufacturers are reliant on intercompatability with other ranges owing to the costs of building out an entire range of minis in a reasonable timeframe.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Togusa wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
The dream is alive, folks.

I'm going to laugh and laugh if it turns out that Old World is 15mm. I've had that suspicion for ages now, and I get shouted down by the "Nuh-uh, it's totally 28mm!!!!" crowd every time I mention it.

15mm Old World would actually make me care about the "Old World." Though...I doubt it. I mean, If I want to play 28MM fantasy, I'll just play with my AoS models which are far superior in terms of rules and models anyway. Brining back the Old World is weird because I highly doubt even 10% of the people they pissed off when they blew it up will come back. New fans are going to say "I've already bought into AoS, and have round based models, why do I need squares?" To be honest, I'd personally have rather had the resources being wasted on brining back the Old World spent on new AoS factions/Updates to existing factions, or given to the specialist games team for things like AT, AI, and possibly things like BFG or Epic.

Total Warhammer has brought a lot of interest back into the old world setting

To the setting, yes. But will that translate to model sales? I do not know and I have my doubts that it will. I've spent a lot of time in the Total War community and I've seen hundreds of people talking about how cool Warhammer models are, but then saying "can't afford, will just play the video game, it's good enough." So there is a bit of "remains to be seen" in there I think for how well it will do sales wise. If it works, it works.

There is still the matter of the gaping hole in that particular market niche. GW seizing on that with a beloved old IP would not be unreasonable.

angryboy2k wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Sorry, I'm just getting fed up with the "debate" about monopose/multipose plastics and you were a convenient "target" for my rage I guess. I think the arguments against GW minis are overblown - GWs plastics are better quality and more detailed than they have *ever* been, and in large part thats because monopose comes with serious mold engineering benefits that allow them to pack greater levels of detail and hide things like mold lines, etc. that wouldn't otherwise be possible. There are advantages and disadvantages to both for sure, but the multipose side is IMO being pretty damned silly about the whole thing. Thats not to say I don't necessarily miss certain aspects of the multipose approach, but 99.9% of the advantages inherent to them have nothing to do with unique/dynamic posing of the models themselves and instead are centered around ease of convertability and interchangeability with other kits.

We've possibly got similar viewpoints on this in a way. The monopose kits bring back some of what I loved about the best of the metal range: we get better-looking figures that are well-posed and beautifully detailed and less hassle to put together than a bunch of disparate parts that are a compromise between pose and physical fit. The old Necron warriors are a great example of how multipart models offer zero advantage over near-monopose plastics; they are a pain to put together and in the end your army doesn't look any better or more varied than the current unposeable warriors.

I think the bigger issue is less with the models and more with the rules. GW's decision to eliminate rules for models that no longer exist is a real shame and makes the monopose range a bit of a bitter pill. If people who wanted to could still chop figures up and actually be able to field them, maybe they'd not be as bothered by the monopose range.

Yeah, the whole "if it has rules it needs a mini, and if it has a mini it needs rules" approach has, to some extent, killed a lot of the creativity in the community. I miss this aspect of the game and the hobby, but I think in some part the shift in approach on GWs end has been a driving force in the growth of the "Inq 28" community/subculture, which is starting to bare fruit by way of games like Sludge and Turnip 28, etc. To be honest, I think its a win/win, as I think the Inq movement has moved in directions that it probably would not have moved in if GWs games were the wide open blank canvas that they used to be when I first got into it, and I think as games 40k/AoS, etc. are mechanically better off by eliminating some of the "variability" that arose as a result of some of the more out-there conversions and stand-ins that people used to work into the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BertBert wrote:
There is still the matter of the gaping hole in that particular market niche. GW seizing on that with a beloved old IP would not be unreasonable.

By which you mean the 10-15mm hole? Yeah - 28mm fantasy on the other hand is a crowded field, and part of hte reason GW abandoned it was because it was not only crowded but in the long run they ended up helping their competitors sell minis as stand-ins to their own. The shift to monopose, as another poster pointed out, as well as the aforementioned scale shift would cut back on that to some extent if GW wanted to re-enter that market, but I don't think it would be worth it, especially not when theres basically an entirely untapped market that they could otherwise fill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I can't find that "TOW1eaks" twitter account, either whoever created it deleted it after posting or its just a doctored photo (or I really suck at twitter, thats possible to)

VonGerrow wrote:
The new Cadian sprue looks a'ight, and if it were being sold as a pure upgrade I'd be a little stoked. It driving up the cost of the infantry squad box (Which I still remember as a $40 box of 20 guardsmen.) will be rough. Should buy a couple more boxes at the current price before it gets added unless you want plasma in every squad.

I'm very happy that they're not scrapping the modular nature of the current Cadian minatures though. I love that about them.

And the Orks look like barbarous vile xenos to die before my flamers, so that's good.

It is kind of good that they are not making everyone's painted guardsmen look outdated with new models.
Existing players can add in from the new kit here and there and maintain consistency. Just my thought, being a bit
uptight visually myself.

chaos0xomega wrote:


By which you mean the 10-15mm hole?

Exactly. Back when ToW was announced and first discussions about it possibly becoming the new Warmaster started here, my initial take was that it makes no sense to make it 28mm because it would only cannibalize AoS sales.

Large part of why WHFB failed in the first place was that you had to spend unreasonable amounts of money to fill your regiments (which was then compounded by the rules basically mandating 40+ sized blocks). Scaling the game down would erase that issue and people would actually be able to achieve that rank and file look with hundreds of units, which also happens to mirror what people see in TW:Warhammer.

It all just fits, but I'm sure there is a lot more to it which I'm not privy to.

 BertBert wrote:
The dream is alive, folks.

After getting people interested in WHFB via the video games only for those people to find out the setting is gone and knowing that people really miss WHFB and a, they announce that they're working on a big project that'll see a return to the beloved setting. They tease that and hype it up with things like a teaser even showing the classic square bases again. They show entirely new units and factions while mentioning it'll be a somewhat similar project to WHFB as what The Horus Heresy is to W40K, going on about how it's a big thing and they know people are excited to see a return. They do all that for well over a year.....and then suddenly go "Oh, we forgot to tell you, this isn't really anything to do with the WHFB game! This is closer to a Warmaster reboot than WHFB, woops!"? I think that would be quite absurd if it turns out to be the case.

The rumour keeps getting repeated but I don't see how it makes any sense at all, really.

I'm guessing the guard upgrade sprue will only increase the guard kit price minimally, and also be available on it's own on the gw website, like the titanicus questorus knights and their upgrade sprue. Went up by $5 when the sprue was added.

I dunno, GW's success comes from the detailed models, not the rules, and you can't really do that in 15mm scale; either you include detail and it's impossible to paint for most people and a huge pain even for those with incredible brush control, or you don't and it looks bland. And either way, the miniatures always look bad because again it's too small to do proper shading on so nothing looks like it's reflecting light in the right way. 15mm also makes stuff like conversions much more difficult, again because everything is just too small. Basically 15mm takes most of the hobby out of the hobby.

A big part of the reason epic died is that the scale didn't allow for the hobby side of the game.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
The Cadian upgrade sprue is awesome. I think my favourite part is the obvious print lines on the special weapons...

They tend to use printed versions of the kit to paint for box art or display purposes due to advance times on printed materials vs actually producing the sprues. I remember the plastic valkyrie kit had the resin fw version painted up and used for the box art.

Yeah, before 3D printing was a thing, they used to use resin prototypes for the studio models. Presumably now they just print off the studio versions...

 lord marcus wrote:
I'm wondering why they are called "colour" shapers, when they are a sculpting tool, but I can do some research and figure it out.

They were originally a painting tool, that was adopted by sculptors.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
The dream is alive, folks.

I'm going to laugh and laugh if it turns out that Old World is 15mm. I've had that suspicion for ages now, and I get shouted down by the "Nuh-uh, it's totally 28mm!!!!" crowd every time I mention it.

Same. On some level I feel like I started it, when the first news about The Old World broke I made some comments here, on reddit, facebook, and in a couple other places to the effect of "it would be awesome if the game was warmaster scale", etc. - like *immediately* after the news broke, within seconds - I was one of the first to comment on the various social media posts and forum threads, etc. *Immediately* I was getting shouting down by arseholes insisting that the only thing it ever possibly could be is legacy 28mm in the exact same scale as the original (never mind the fact that GW doesn't actually design 28mm minis anymore and all their new releases going back 5 or so years have been in the 32-35mm range).

Personally - I don't really care what scale its in, I want a 10-15mm scale game because I like minis of that scale, theres a big hole in the market for fantasy minis in that scale range, and im of the opinion that its the largest scale at which you can do a mass battle rank and file/rank and flank minis game (yes I know there are games that do it at 28mm, I've played or tried many/most of them, I find them to be overwhelmingly mediocre as they have to make a lot of sacrifices to work with the large footprint that blocks of infantry and cavalry occupy on the table). If it is a 28+mm scale game, I'll probably still buy it anyway. My stance has never been that the game will be one scale or another, only that there is the possibility that it might be in a scale other than 28mm, and I would welcome it openly if it was... the "purists" out there, on the other hand, can't seem to approach the discussion in good faith and see no other possibility but 28mm - the worst of whom seem to think that GW is actually just going to re-release all the legacy WHFB minis and life is going to go back to "normal" as if they were never discontinued in the first place.

I would love it if The Old World was GW's entry into 15mm, fantasy tabletop wargaming. And Warhammer Total War being as popular as it is just seems to make this even more likely - what better tie-in to the video game than actually being able to play those battles out on the tabletop at a more "realistic" scale? By which I mean way more regiments than a typical 28mm WHFB game could ever field. At 15mm, you could do it far more easily.

Large part of why WHFB failed in the first place was that you had to spend unreasonable amounts of money to fill your regiments (which was then compounded by the rules basically mandating 40+ sized blocks). Scaling the game down would erase that issue and people would actually be able to achieve that rank and file look with hundreds of units, which also happens to mirror what people see in TW:Warhammer.

It all just fits, but I'm sure there is a lot more to it which I'm not privy to.

Good points all around. Imagine being able to spend, say, $100 and get half of a huge Orc and Goblin army all in one go, at 15mm scale. And so far, GW has been very careful to not declare anything more than "It'll be on square bases". Well.. you could fit a decent sized 15mm night gobbo regiment on a 50mm square base, I bet...

GW is having enough trouble keeping up with their current games, especially since the pandemic started, they don’t need another big mass battle game set in the old world. Most of the people who were interested in playing WHFB moved on to 9th age, and having quite a few friends that now play it, I doubt they would move back.

If the did something in 15mm that was different I could see the niche for it.

Or if they really wanted to go back to the Old World, just hit up a Mordheim reboot. It’s basically the Old World distilled to it’s strongest form. Plus it would only need a few plastic kits as opposed to whole armies being redone.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
The dream is alive, folks.

They tease that and hype it up with things like the teaser even showing the square bases again

You do know that plenty of games in the 2mm-15mm range use square bases... right? Like, I don't get this logic or hangup, "NOOOO GW PROMISED US SQUARE BASES, THAT MEANS 28MM!". FFS, Epic was on square and rectangular bases and that was 6mm.

They show entirely new units and factions while mentioning it'll be a somewhat similar project to WHFB as what The Horus Heresy is to W40K, going on about how it's a big thing and they know people are excited.

I will point out that the only "The Horus Heresy" branded game thats getting consistent support form GW at the moment is actually Adeptus Titanicus. I think FW is still putting out occasional 28mm HH/30k releases, but its been a couple years at least since it seems like anyone at GW actually really gave a damn about that game in particular. In a general sense, GW seems to use and understand "The Horus Heresy" as a sub-brand/sub-label which encompasses a variety of games and product lines (see also: persistent rumors that the revamped Battlefleet Gothic will likewise be a Horus Heresy product line) more than they do one specific game, its entirely possible when they said "it will be to AoS as The Horus Heresy is to 40K" what they were actually saying is that The Old World will be the fantasy equivalent of the Horus Heresy sub-brand, rather than the fantasy equivalent of the Horus Heresy 28mm tabletop wargame.

"They do all that for well over a year.....and then suddenly go "Oh, we forgot to tell you, this isn't really anything to do with the WHFB game! This is a Warmaster reboot, woops!"?

They were pretty clear that the only thing they had actually figured out for TOW at the time of the announcement was the name and nothing else, and that the were only just starting to work on development, etc. Any reasonable minded individual would have interpreted that to mean "literally anything is possible" rather than "this is a WHFB reboot", because if it was a WHFB reboot they would have outright stated it as such.

If it is TOW in 15mm I'm down if not no dice.

I'd rather it be plastic 30k tho

I'd be happy to see a true mass battle style game for the Old World in 15mm.

I'd also be happy to see an AoS scale Old World using the round bases in square trays approach. It would make a lot of sense in a cross recruitment sense especially if the core units are compatible but the high profit margin kits are kept system locked.

With recent Chaos and Undead Units looking completely at home in the Old World it could come true.

If the new Fantasy is in a smaller scale, then i'm out.

One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

Would depend how CA models their game assets, etc. Its not entirely out of the question, but even if they could claim them, its not as easy as typing in a scale multiplier and hitting print, theres a dramatic amount of rework that would likely be involved in converting them into a manufacturable product unless GW and CA integrated and cooperated closely enough that CAs 3d artists sculpted with manufacturing in mind from the get-go.

 Sabotage! wrote:
Most of the people who were interested in playing WHFB moved on to 9th age, and having quite a few friends that now play it, I doubt they would move back.

Definitely going to disagree with your statement of "most". Most people that went to T9A were people already playing by ETC rules. The rest went to Kow, kept with 8th, went to Warhammer Army Project's 9th Ed(especially after the big changes to T9A split that community further), or went back to 6th/7th. There's literally NO consensus from WHFB players, much less "most", as to which rules to play. The end of 8th caused a massive rift in the community that saw them scattershot FAST rather than universally migrate.

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).

Bear cavalry... How is that going to be 15mm ? Plus all the concept at rich in detail? Not o mention WHT3 dropping imminently and we know kislev is going to be main faction.

28mm Bear cav, Nippon, or cathay minis... Nobody will have those models from Legacy WHFB or AOS...
GW makes models. Detailed models they can show off painted and huge upsales from the hobby side. You cant paint 15mm are more to the point most people will nto wnat to paint 15mm scae.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:
Most of the people who were interested in playing WHFB moved on to 9th age, and having quite a few friends that now play it, I doubt they would move back.

Definitely going to disagree with your statement of "most". Most people that went to T9A were people already playing by ETC rules. The rest went to Kow, kept with 8th, went to Warhammer Army Project's 9th Ed(especially after the big changes to T9A split that community further), or went back to 6th/7th. There's literally NO consensus from WHFB players, much less "most", as to which rules to play. The end of 8th caused a massive rift in the community that saw them scattershot FAST rather than universally migrate.

People in my area mostly play 7th / old editions.

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

Not sure GW would want to do that. I also doubt the game assets will have the exact details GW has put into the designs at a usable level for models.

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

Would depend how CA models their game assets, etc. Its not entirely out of the question, but even if they could claim them, its not as easy as typing in a scale multiplier and hitting print, theres a dramatic amount of rework that would likely be involved in converting them into a manufacturable product unless GW and CA integrated and cooperated closely enough that CAs 3d artists sculpted with manufacturing in mind from the get-go.

As far as I recall from reading some article regarding the relationship - GW has reserved rights to any sculpts/ IP. CA is renting warhammer IP and GW flips out its big fat &^%% and tells them what they can and cant change whenever they feel like it. TW franchise is CA's golden egg goose.

 Argive wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

Would depend how CA models their game assets, etc. Its not entirely out of the question, but even if they could claim them, its not as easy as typing in a scale multiplier and hitting print, theres a dramatic amount of rework that would likely be involved in converting them into a manufacturable product unless GW and CA integrated and cooperated closely enough that CAs 3d artists sculpted with manufacturing in mind from the get-go.

As far as I recall from reading some article regarding the relationship - GW has reserved rights to any sculpts/ IP. CA is renting warhammer IP and GW flips out its big fat &^%% and tells them what they can and cant change whenever they feel like it. TW franchise is CA's golden egg goose.

All of the designs for the new stuff originates from the GW design team anyway, according to things both sides have stated.

Togusa wrote:

IHateAoS wrote:
Not interested in monopose orcs.

I'm stunned by the Cadian update.

So now they can increase the price of a 20 year old kit with a lazy upgrade sprue. Great. This could mean no IG update for another 10 years, or maybe they're just keeping the grognards (who like their squat mutants) happy for now and will eventually release some 'not Cadians'.

Simmer down there. There are literally clear examples of new Guard models in the Rumor Engine pictures. It may not be Cadians, it could be a guard version of Snaggas. "Cawls Defense Forces" or something like that which could be taken by any regiment, but have special equipment and better training. Also, while the upgrade sprue might seem lazy, I'm already seeing extremely positive reactions to it online and irl. It's smart by business standards and extends the life of the models.

What do you mean simmer down? Aren't you just repeating what I said?

Anyways, I think this confirms there won't be new Cadians. Whether that means new Catachans instead, or something completely different remains to be seen. I think the whole IG line needs a redo and it looks like it's not gonna happen any time soon. In the end I save money, so it's a bittersweet feeling.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Argive wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

Would depend how CA models their game assets, etc. Its not entirely out of the question, but even if they could claim them, its not as easy as typing in a scale multiplier and hitting print, theres a dramatic amount of rework that would likely be involved in converting them into a manufacturable product unless GW and CA integrated and cooperated closely enough that CAs 3d artists sculpted with manufacturing in mind from the get-go.

As far as I recall from reading some article regarding the relationship - GW has reserved rights to any sculpts/ IP. CA is renting warhammer IP and GW flips out its big fat &^%% and tells them what they can and cant change whenever they feel like it. TW franchise is CA's golden egg goose.

All of the designs for the new stuff originates from the GW design team anyway, according to things both sides have stated.

The way i understood it they agree on some concept art and then GW green lights any assets moving forward

 Argive wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:
Most of the people who were interested in playing WHFB moved on to 9th age, and having quite a few friends that now play it, I doubt they would move back.

Definitely going to disagree with your statement of "most". Most people that went to T9A were people already playing by ETC rules. The rest went to Kow, kept with 8th, went to Warhammer Army Project's 9th Ed(especially after the big changes to T9A split that community further), or went back to 6th/7th. There's literally NO consensus from WHFB players, much less "most", as to which rules to play. The end of 8th caused a massive rift in the community that saw them scattershot FAST rather than universally migrate.

People in my area mostly play 7th / old editions.

Yup, it very much seems to be a regional thing as each group decides amongst themselves which to play. I know there's a decent sized 8th group in DFW.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
If the new Fantasy is in a smaller scale, then i'm out.

Agreed.

IHateAoS wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
If the new Fantasy is in a smaller scale, then i'm out.

Agreed.

I've said time and again, a different scale will make TOW DOA. Yes, there's a vocal contingent that wants smaller, but across several boards and groups, they're definitely a minority and I doubt there's enough of them to make it a viable risk for GW.

 Argive wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).

Bear cavalry... How is that going to be 15mm ? Plus all the concept at rich in detail? Not o mention WHT3 dropping imminently and we know kislev is going to be main faction.

28mm Bear cav, Nippon, or cathay minis... Nobody will have those models from Legacy WHFB or AOS...
GW makes models. Detailed models they can show off painted and huge upsales from the hobby side. You cant paint 15mm are more to the point most people will nto wnat to paint 15mm scae.

You sound like someone thats never touched a 15mm mini before tbh, or is wholly unaware of the existence of Warmaster... kinda awkward tbh, heres a 10mm bear cavalry mini that GW made about 10-15 years ago:



You'll have to google more photos for yourself, a lot of them don't allow linking.

Scale it up 50% and add a whole lot of capability improvements in terms of GWs ability to model digitally and produce high-precision and high-detail plastic kits in-house, and its pretty clear theres not much of an argument here. The amount of detail that some companies are able to pack into the 6mm through 15mm scale minis is quite frankly insane, theres no reason to believe that GW wouldn't be able to blow them out of hte water.

PS, heres some amazingly painted 15mm minis for you, I'm sure the people who painted them would love to hear about how you can't paint minis at that scale:








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 Argive wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
"Smallhammer" seems to be an astonishingly popular concept, the last few months it really does seem like I'm seeing more people who would support (or would *only* support) a 15mm or smaller range than I am people who would only buy 28mm. When you consider that 15mm means you would have to buy an entirely new line of minis, vs 28+mm supporters have a large number of people insisting they will use their legacy minis or buy 3rd party, it really does make it seem like smallhammer is a viable choice (and possibly even the more likely choice).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

Would depend how CA models their game assets, etc. Its not entirely out of the question, but even if they could claim them, its not as easy as typing in a scale multiplier and hitting print, theres a dramatic amount of rework that would likely be involved in converting them into a manufacturable product unless GW and CA integrated and cooperated closely enough that CAs 3d artists sculpted with manufacturing in mind from the get-go.

As far as I recall from reading some article regarding the relationship - GW has reserved rights to any sculpts/ IP. CA is renting warhammer IP and GW flips out its big fat &^%% and tells them what they can and cant change whenever they feel like it. TW franchise is CA's golden egg goose.

yeah, but modeling for video games and modeling for plastics production are two very different things. There is a degree of overlap between them, but that doesn't mean that CAs staff knows how to fill in the parts needed to make the designs manufacturable. GW reserving rights to the models is fairly typical for licensing and doesn't mean anything in terms of the ability to actual manufacture them.

I've said time and again, a different scale will make TOW DOA. Yes, there's a vocal contingent that wants smaller, but across several boards and groups, they're definitely a minority and I doubt there's enough of them to make it a viable risk for GW.

Can you prove theyre a minority? Ive yet to see a poll on the topic, but my own observation is that theres more people pro-15 or smaller than there are anti-15 or smaller... which would make the smallhammer contingent a *majority*.

HEY EVERYONE. That Twitter screenshot about the old world is fake. There is no such account.

Chikout wrote:
HEY EVERYONE. That Twitter screenshot about the old world is fake. There is no such account.

Yeah, i questioned the same earlier, waiting for someone to elaborate on where it was sourced from (i.e. was it an account that was deleted between may 5th and today, or was it actually a photo-edit/fake).

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
The dream is alive, folks.

They tease that and hype it up with things like the teaser even showing the square bases again

You do know that plenty of games in the 2mm-15mm range use square bases... right? Like, I don't get this logic or hangup, "NOOOO GW PROMISED US SQUARE BASES, THAT MEANS 28MM!". FFS, Epic was on square and rectangular bases and that was 6mm.

Yes, other games they've made have used square bases....but the one people remember most fondly, that they know people wanted a return to, that comes to mind first and was their most 'recent' game to use square bases, is WHFB.

"They do all that for well over a year.....and then suddenly go "Oh, we forgot to tell you, this isn't really anything to do with the WHFB game! This is a Warmaster reboot, woops!"?

They were pretty clear that the only thing they had actually figured out for TOW at the time of the announcement was the name and nothing else, and that the were only just starting to work on development, etc. Any reasonable minded individual would have interpreted that to mean "literally anything is possible" rather than "this is a WHFB reboot", because if it was a WHFB reboot they would have outright stated it as such.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Chikout wrote:
HEY EVERYONE. That Twitter screenshot about the old world is fake. There is no such account.

Yeah, i questioned the same earlier, waiting for someone to elaborate on where it was sourced from (i.e. was it an account that was deleted between may 5th and today, or was it actually a photo-edit/fake).

It was from 4chan and almost certainly fake. I also didn't want to portray it as a proof, just as a tongue in cheek remark to get the discussion going in anticipation of the big reveal tomorrow. Smallhammer is still a rather long shot in my view, but it's fun to theorise about it.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
The dream is alive, folks.

They tease that and hype it up with things like the teaser even showing the square bases again

You do know that plenty of games in the 2mm-15mm range use square bases... right? Like, I don't get this logic or hangup, "NOOOO GW PROMISED US SQUARE BASES, THAT MEANS 28MM!". FFS, Epic was on square and rectangular bases and that was 6mm.

Yes, other games they've made have used square bases....but the one people remember most fondly, that they know people wanted a return to, that comes to mind first and was their most 'recent' game to use square bases, is WHFB.

"They do all that for well over a year.....and then suddenly go "Oh, we forgot to tell you, this isn't really anything to do with the WHFB game! This is a Warmaster reboot, woops!"?

They were pretty clear that the only thing they had actually figured out for TOW at the time of the announcement was the name and nothing else, and that the were only just starting to work on development, etc. Any reasonable minded individual would have interpreted that to mean "literally anything is possible" rather than "this is a WHFB reboot", because if it was a WHFB reboot they would have outright stated it as such.

chaos0xomega wrote:
if they can change the setting, they can change literally everything else about it.

I mean, sure, they can do anything, but they've changed the setting multiple times(WHFRP1 killing Karl Franz and electing a new Emperor, retconning Storm of Chaos and Malekith's invasion of Ulthuan, Tamurkhan originally being an entirely separate timeline just to name a few) without changing the base facts of the game itself.

 Platuan4th wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
if they can change the setting, they can change literally everything else about it.

I mean, sure, they can do anything, but they've changed the setting multiple times(WHFRP1 killing Karl Franz and electing a new Emperor, retconning Storm of Chaos and Malekith's invasion of Ulthuan, Tamurkhan originally being an entirely separate timeline just to name a few) without changing the base facts of the game itself.

This entire conversation basically goes back to what I said previously - you're incapable of acknowledging the possibility, and therefore not debating the point in good faith. In less kind terms, you're in a whole lot of denial if you're unable to recognize that there is a potential for a different scale.

You need to read better then. I have stated in the past it's a possibility, it's just a bad idea for them to actually do so.

SO, how about we leave the 15mm WHFB speculation for a different thread?

Feel free to revisit it here if it does turn out to be the next reveal, obviously...

Edit: Replied before I saw the mod post.

Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

As far as the Cadian upgrade sprue goes, I like it and would welcome the same kind of treatment for the ancient Catachan box set.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

Apparently the miniatures are from a very early stage in the series where there were no named female members yet. The medic and the piper boy from their previous iteration are not included either.

 BertBert wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

Apparently the miniatures are from a very early stage in the series where there were no named female members yet. The medic and the piper boy from their previous iteration are not included either.

And still no MkVenner or Varl.

 BertBert wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

Apparently the miniatures are from a very early stage in the series where there were no named female members yet. The medic and the piper boy from their previous iteration are not included either.

Well, they could have chosen a later stage of the series.

Guys, I'm really close to cracking the code. I know what they're going to reveal tomorrow.

During the Boxed Game reveals, they showed off the "Plastic Thunderhawk", granted it was in smaller scale.

What else comes to mind when you think "plastic thunderhawk?"

YES! YOU'RE RIGHT!! LION EL'JOHNSON!!!

Tomorrow we're either going to see Epic (probably set in 30k) so you can stick a primarch on top of the new plastic thunderhawk... OR it'll be Lion El'Johnson for 40k!!!

 Crimson wrote:

 BertBert wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

Apparently the miniatures are from a very early stage in the series where there were no named female members yet. The medic and the piper boy from their previous iteration are not included either.

Well, they could have chosen a later stage of the series.

Or maybe they have more planned for later, but thought that the beginning was a very good place to start...

I gotta say (and this is a weird feeling for someone as negative as me) that I am pretty darn happy with today's reveals (speaking as an ENTIRELY ork player).

They revealed a mega-armor warboss, which was a welcome addition to the model range. That also, to me, strongly signified that they are NOT abandoning the old scrap/ramshackle ork vibe for Beast Snaggas, but actually just adding a new option to the line. It looks a LOT like some third party miniature Warboss models, which is also a positive development to me, because it signals (to me) that they are not jettisoning the old look because people are reproducing it (ala Primaris), but are taking the good ideas when they see them (akin to them hiring animators who did their own pet projects).

They brought back Zogrod Wortsnagga! Not only am I happy to see such a classic ork revisited, it gives me hope that other, fan-favorite models like Ol' Zogwort, or (dare I say it), Wazdakka Gutsmek, may again see the light of day. Also, the return of the pre-eminent grot herder may be a good sign for those players who long to field a grot army--who else could organize the little blighters into a capable fighting force?

The Beastsnagga boys are (as I sadly feared) obviously monopose, which was predictable and perhaps inevitable. However, they are pretty darn cool models, and the fact that they are chonky bois and fairly distinctive means that there is less impetus for them to compose the 'new boyz horde'. Instead, 10-20 of them seems like an acceptable amount, rather than expecting players to field multiple horde units of them.

This works particularly well for me, as it lets the Beast Snaggas fit nicely into existing ork fluff. For me, for example, I had a small Snakebite army, but I didn't really have a good option for nobs, or any elite sorts of Snakebites. I did, however, have two squiggoths and one gargantuan squiggoth. It seemed weird to have regular boys in the big squig, and a unit of nobs riding in a small one. Now, however, I can use the Snagga boys as the equivalent of Skarboyz (without spending CP), and have one unit of 20, riding in the big squiggoth, 2 units of boyz (from Fantasy orcs) riding in the smaller squiggoths, and use the mounted Snaggas as nobs (akin to the Snakebite equivalent of Biker Nobs) and a Warboss on the squig. I can use the models to reinforce the existing background of the orks, rather than having their existence complicate the whole thing (like the Primaris marines seemed to do).

Finally, the mere existence of a Cadian upgrade sprue gives me hope that, hey, GW could do an upgrade sprue for orks, allowing them to keep churning out the old boyz sprue, but giving us bits for Kommandos and Tankbustas on a sprue!

Sure, I may have been happier with some plastic tankbustas, kommandos, and a deffkopta, but I like all of this stuff, and it seems (maybe even intentionally) designed not to give you the 'Primaris' "you guys are getting replaced" vibe.

And they mentioned Gorkers and Morkers--is this a sign of Gorkamorka (or are GW just yanking the janglies of all the neckbeards who still remember the game)?

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

The female Ghosts don't join until after the third book.

The bigger crime is using the starter cast and forgetting Milo.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

The female Ghosts don't join until after the third book.

The bigger crime is using the starter cast and forgetting Milo.

Yeah, but in the old Ghosts box you'd get a few females too. And Milo.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

The female Ghosts don't join until after the third book.

The bigger crime is using the starter cast and forgetting Milo.

I want a 2 pack with Milo and Sabatine. Usable in either a guard or sisters army.

I love the beast snaggas! I can't wait for that army box and build those squig riders!

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

The female Ghosts don't join until after the third book.

The bigger crime is using the starter cast and forgetting Milo.

I want a 2 pack with Milo and Sabatine. Usable in either a guard or sisters army.

But Sabatine isn't tied to the Sisters, it wouldn't make sense fluffwise.

Man, just wanna say how stoked I am that GW finally started to come good on the promises of the "You Will Not Be Missed" post. Some actual tasteful racially diverse human sculpts are really nice. I dearly hope that they make these nice and cheap, so kids can get them when they start out.

It's a little rare coming from me, and tbh, I absolutely feel the frustration from guard players that this is the first infantry release since I've been in the hobby, but it's really refreshing to see a bit of diversity, gender- and racially-speaking, esp. when in the past GW's representation has been largely 'paint heads with white ethnotypical features some shade of brown and call it a day'.

Good job, GW, hope to see more of it going forward, across a few more ranges. (also pls GW remember there are more races than just White and Black kthnksbye)

 insaniak wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 BertBert wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

Apparently the miniatures are from a very early stage in the series where there were no named female members yet. The medic and the piper boy from their previous iteration are not included either.

Well, they could have chosen a later stage of the series.

Or maybe they have more planned for later, but thought that the beginning was a very good place to start...

Most likely its just a tie-in to the new book (which is set in the past) and this is the start AND end.

 posermcbogus wrote:
Man, just wanna say how stoked I am that GW finally started to come good on the promises of the "You Will Not Be Missed" post. Some actual tasteful racially diverse human sculpts are really nice. I dearly hope that they make these nice and cheap, so kids can get them when they start out.

It's a little rare coming from me, and tbh, I absolutely feel the frustration from guard players that this is the first infantry release since I've been in the hobby, but it's really refreshing to see a bit of diversity, gender- and racially-speaking, esp. when in the past GW's representation has been largely 'paint heads with white ethnotypical features some shade of brown and call it a day'.

Good job, GW, hope to see more of it going forward, across a few more ranges. (also pls GW remember there are more races than just White and Black kthnksbye)

Expect the current Cadian Shock Troops to go the way of the dodo and be reboxed with this new sprue (all the old sprues will still be there with all the current parts, just with an extra sprue added)

And also expect the price to go from 36 USD to 60 USD for 10 guardsmen.

I mean, yeah, but still. It's nice to at least pretend that GW might make inclusivity a bit more, dare I say...

...inclusive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I know like it's probably unlikely, but I hope to Gork & Mork that the megaboss has options.

 posermcbogus wrote:
I mean, yeah, but still. It's nice to at least pretend that GW might make inclusivity a bit more, dare I say...

...inclusive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I know like it's probably unlikely, but I hope to Gork & Mork that the megaboss has options.

Of course the mega boss has options. He can smash a primary fluent with his weapon, with his boot, or headbutt them to death.

I think yesterday's show was pretty good. Sure they didn't show a huge amount of stuff but we have a pretty good idea what the next 5 codexes will be. We also found out that the new Ork releases will not just be beast snaggas.

We've seen 6 new kits so far. There look to be 2 more beast snagga kits to go: the warboss and the vehicle. That leaves about 4 kits to go. (If we take Eddie at his word) There is a pretty good chance that some of the old resin units will get a new plastic version.


This looks like it will be the release Ork players were hoping for last time.

The imperial guard upgrade kit is good but my hope is that frees up gw to have a new regiment as their imperial guard focus for the next codex.

As for tomorrow, it will be AoS3. Look at the banner icons. There's one that hasn't referred to anything yet.

 posermcbogus wrote:
I mean, yeah, but still. It's nice to at least pretend that GW might make inclusivity a bit more, dare I say...

...inclusive?

If the price goes up with the inclusion of the sprue, I'm going to call it a net negative. The base models are well overdue for an update, they come from a time when GW's model proportions were at their worst, so to make them even more expensive certainly isn't a good thing.

Then, secondly, I don't see great appeal to attaching a female-ish head to a distinctly over exaggerated male physique.

Then, thirdly, personally, I only have unhelmeted Cadians for officers. The rank and file in my IG army always keep their helmets on and that's the way I like it. I think Guardsmen work best when they're a horde of uniformity.

I think a better attempt at inclusivity was the Slaves to Darkness kits.

 posermcbogus wrote:
I mean, yeah, but still. It's nice to at least pretend that GW might make inclusivity a bit more, dare I say...

...inclusive?

Is it really inclusive if it prices people out of the army?

GW is very much of the "diversity means we're happy to take anybody's money, as long as they can pay our premium prices" school of thought.

Chikout wrote:
I think yesterday's show was pretty good. Sure they didn't show a huge amount of stuff but we have a pretty good idea what the next 5 codexes will be. We also found out that the new Ork releases will not just be beast snaggas.

We've seen 6 new kits so far. There look to be 2 more beast snagga kits to go: the warboss and the vehicle. That leaves about 4 kits to go. (If we take Eddie at his word) There is a pretty good chance that some of the old resin units will get a new plastic version.


This looks like it will be the release Ork players were hoping for last time.

The imperial guard upgrade kit is good but my hope is that frees up gw to have a new regiment as their imperial guard focus for the next codex.

As for tomorrow, it will be AoS3. Look at the banner icons. There's one that hasn't referred to anything yet.

What did they actually say I the show with regards to how many new kits Orks are getting?

drbored wrote:


And also expect the price to go from 36 USD to 60 USD for 10 guardsmen.

Yep, this is guaranteed. They were already too expensive at this point for the quality of the sculpts and their tabletop performance (needing vast numbers to be at all effective)

Come one peep, it'll be 55USD and everyone rejoiced.

 dan2026 wrote:

Chikout wrote:
I think yesterday's show was pretty good. Sure they didn't show a huge amount of stuff but we have a pretty good idea what the next 5 codexes will be. We also found out that the new Ork releases will not just be beast snaggas.

We've seen 6 new kits so far. There look to be 2 more beast snagga kits to go: the warboss and the vehicle. That leaves about 4 kits to go. (If we take Eddie at his word) There is a pretty good chance that some of the old resin units will get a new plastic version.


This looks like it will be the release Ork players were hoping for last time.

The imperial guard upgrade kit is good but my hope is that frees up gw to have a new regiment as their imperial guard focus for the next codex.

As for tomorrow, it will be AoS3. Look at the banner icons. There's one that hasn't referred to anything yet.

What did they actually say I the show with regards to how many new kits Orks are getting?

They did say that this was the first half of the Ork models to be released, but that could mean a lot or it could mean nothing. Personally I want to lean towards it meaning little (New MA Warboss they teased, new Meganobz, the Chariot, the Beast Snagga Boss, and maybe new Grots since Zodgrod is here). That would be 4-5 models and would be enough to constitute a second half of a release.

Looking at it in the most optimistic, unlikely, and wish-listing light possible, and assuming everything in the initial teaser was a hint here is what is possible;

1. Grots - Grots shown with newer looking blastas and carrying grenades (which grots normally can't use, except for the Red Gobbo)
2. Boyz - Boyz shown in the trailer with some new gear. One has a double barrel kustom-shoota, one has a shoulder-mounted KMB, and another has a shoulder-mounted Big Shoota. No Ork models for sale have Kustom Shootas except the MANZ. Maybe this is a hint of a Boyz Upgrade Sprue, like what Guard is getting.
3. Meganobz - Initial Teaser has meganobz that look a lot different from our current ones. Less box with legs, more suit of armor like the MA boss they showed today. It wields a Choppa (which MANZ can't take) and it's Kustom Shoota is held in the hand like a pistol instead of replacing the hand.
4. Trukk - The trukk looks pretty different from the current one and the narrator says "new trukk." Personally I am skeptical, but who knows.
5. Big Mek with KFF - No appearance in the trailer, but it's extremely odd that War of the Beast gave us it's datasheet back. GW never ever posts rules without models to sell anymore, why would they do it for the KFF Big Mek? Maybe one of the rules designers is secretly an Ork player and has a soft spot for them.

This is just conjecture for fun, and I don't expect most of these things to appear.

No One Important wrote:

 posermcbogus wrote:
I mean, yeah, but still. It's nice to at least pretend that GW might make inclusivity a bit more, dare I say...

...inclusive?

Is it really inclusive if it prices people out of the army?

This, the inevitable price increase will not improve the Situation.
Nvm legal drinking age mainbody still there...

So the new boyz are super cool but painfully obviously repeated sculpts, as expected; I’m still definitely getting that box if I can, because I want everything in it. I have enough boyz bits to add some individuality for quite a while if the full release doesn’t add some more options. The mega-armour boss is awesome, everything he should be.

Cadian upgrade sprue was a surprise, but I’m guessing it’s a interim solution until they can reboot the entire guard range, which I assume will not be Cadian style when they get there. It gives them some fresh new options and allows GW to retire the last metal kits (plasma gunners and snipers). Given that the GSC box is £25 vs £22.50 for Cadians, I would assume a similar price here (maybe £27ish at most).

Anyone thinking that the Grey Knight vs Thousand Sons box is going to be anything but a re-box of existing sprues with two new characters is having a laugh. Will be nice to have a new Crowe model, I never particularly liked the old one.

Hmm, so does this imply that we are going to get Thousand Sons and Grey Knights after Admech, Orcs and Sisters of Battle ?

The new 40k orruks are not my cuppa at all: as models they're decent enough, but obviously monopose and and with much more human proportions than I like (I do like the "not HZD-like armor" bits, though).

The squig riders look horrendous to me, and the megaboss is nice (about damn time already)

The Cadian sprue is such a weird idea, at this time... I'm kinda baffled. I have more than enough Cadians already, and these are nowhere near enough to make me buy more, or even just the bits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jadenim wrote:
Cadian upgrade sprue was a surprise, but I’m guessing it’s a interim solution until they can reboot the entire guard range, which I assume will not be Cadian style when they get there. It gives them some fresh new options and allows GW to retire the last metal kits (plasma gunners and snipers). Given that the GSC box is £25 vs £22.50 for Cadians, I would assume a similar price here (maybe £27ish at most).

The command sprue already had those, though.

Anything about when that box/ork codex is going to be available?

So, plastic cadian sprue is interesting. I hope it means more guard on the way at some point. I like a lot of the heads. I probably won't like how much it costs. Hopefully the cadian kits will finally be retired in favour of something better. I still think they should create a whole new regiment as a new cadia.

The new Orks look great, I quite like that direction they went in by looking through and revamping some old 2nd edition stuff.

Bit disappointed in it being GK vs TS. If they wanted a pysker war they should have gone for GK against Eldar instead and finally release some new kits.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Anyone else bummed that when they redid the Ghosts they seem to have 'forgotten' the female Ghosts?

The female Ghosts don't join until after the third book.

The bigger crime is using the starter cast and forgetting Milo.

Yeah, but in the old Ghosts box you'd get a few females too. And Milo.

This one's based on time no female was in regiment yet though. Sorry but if you want to stay true to books you can't have females on box based on pre-vervunhive war.

This is intended for fans of book　series and they care about it being accurate to books.

Of course gw could have done sculpts based on post-vervunhive. Then they would have had to tell author write story set in other timeframe as well...

It might just be AOS but we have seen some Duel Battle Boxes with either a couple of new units, some resculpted units, or even entire new factions (thinking of Ossiarch Bonereapers for example).

So I don't think it is too much of a stretch to see GK given similar treatment in this box.

GK sculpts were good in their day but on my painting desk right now I'm working on a primaris marine and a current GK. It looks like bring your kid to work day.

 Albertorius wrote:

The command sprue already had those, though.

You don't think buying command　box for every squad is...excessive? And likely more expensive than this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Souleater wrote:
It might just be AOS but we have seen some Duel Battle Boxes with either a couple of new units, some resculpted units, or even entire new factions (thinking of Ossiarch Bonereapers for example).

So I don't think it is too much of a stretch to see GK given similar treatment in this box.

GK sculpts were good in their day but on my painting desk right now I'm working on a primaris marine and a current GK. It looks like bring your kid to work day.

Well if gw wants gk stay true scale they can't make them primaris sized. Gk are　7 feet. Primaris 8

Not really, if GW say that GK primaris are just as tall as regular primaris marines then they are.

I also have Custodes who in the novels are taller than primaris (although not by much) yet their standard troops are fractionally shorter than my primaris guys.

At 0:51 in the Beastsnagga video, is that grot on the hogg with wheel instead of hindlegs holding a gun with a squig tied to it? Maybe as a rifle grenade? Oh my.

I've wanted to do some Mad Max Ork Speedfreak outriders for a more militaristic Death Skullz clan for a couple of years now, but was aways to lazy do get a lot of shirtless boyz done. This could be it. And if they have infantry with rocket spears, even better, otherwise I'll make some stikkbomb-onna-stikk boyz as Kamikaze tankbustas as I was thinking about.

Honestly im hoping for 10mm Horus Heresy. All the Aeronautica space marine craft shown is 30k era vehicles, all the titans and knights already exist, making some infantry and tanks would be easy. Im really thinking I might sell out of my Horus Heresy stuff if they release 10mm alternatives.

As an Ork/chaos player I'm absolutely buzzing with this release. Will be hovering on the pre order button.

I absolutely love the mega armoured Warboss and the painboss as well as all the stuff in the box, happy player here.

tneva82 wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

The command sprue already had those, though.

You don't think buying command　box for every squad is...excessive? And likely more expensive than this.

Not really?

The sprue was sold as a "Command HQ", but the useability of the parts was much wider. You had a flamer and a GL plus sergeant parts and bits to make five regular IGs if you wanted (much like the regular box in that regard), plus parts to make officers, medics and banner bearers for the HQ... but also a whole lot more, plus heavy flamer, fusion gun, plasma gun and sniper rifle...

All in all, it was very much worth it to buy multiple boxes or hunt down bits... and people has had what, a decade, to do that already?

The original price was quite better, though.

Simply put, is this:



versus this:



And had this new sprue been released 15 year ago, I'd been over the moon, as they would have worked really well with the other cadian sprues, don't get me wrong!

It's just that by today standards, and given that (other than the cosmetic options, meaning the heads, which are cool) there's a sprue that's been sold for a decade that already has everything in this one, well... in not exactly overwhelmed by it.

I could buy the sprue to make a Kill Team, but not much else, nowadays. And that's because I still have unassembled cadians.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Honestly im hoping for 10mm Horus Heresy. All the Aeronautica space marine craft shown is 30k era vehicles, all the titans and knights already exist, making some infantry and tanks would be easy. Im really thinking I might sell out of my Horus Heresy stuff if they release 10mm alternatives.

Why would you want 10 mm versions when the already compatible AI and AT models are scaled for heroic 6 mm proportions ?

 Sherrypie wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Honestly im hoping for 10mm Horus Heresy. All the Aeronautica space marine craft shown is 30k era vehicles, all the titans and knights already exist, making some infantry and tanks would be easy. Im really thinking I might sell out of my Horus Heresy stuff if they release 10mm alternatives.

Why would you want 10 mm versions when the already compatible AI and AT models are scaled for heroic 6 mm proportions ?

Yeah, I can attest to that. 10mm would make no sense at all, now.

 Souleater wrote:
Not really, if GW say that GK primaris are just as tall as regular primaris marines then they are.

I also have Custodes who in the novels are taller than primaris (although not by much) yet their standard troops are fractionally shorter than my primaris guys.

Not an important fact, but when comparing the scale of custodian guard vs intercessors for example you have to take into account the pose. Most custodians have a rather wide stance, which makes them appear shorter in some cases than primaris. They are the same scale really. Only auilon terminators and trajann are noticeably taller than standard primaris.

 Sherrypie wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Honestly im hoping for 10mm Horus Heresy. All the Aeronautica space marine craft shown is 30k era vehicles, all the titans and knights already exist, making some infantry and tanks would be easy. Im really thinking I might sell out of my Horus Heresy stuff if they release 10mm alternatives.

Why would you want 10 mm versions when the already compatible AI and AT models are scaled for heroic 6 mm proportions ?

This sounds like a very great thread to resurrect the endless AT scale debate!
To go back to the original quote, an AT/AI scale Horus Heresy game ("official Epic 30k") would be absolutely awesome (and completely murder my wallet). If they do that, I hope that would be a dedicated game (which could use the AT&AI minis), and not just bolting some Tank and Infantry rules onto the rules of Adeptus Titanicus.

Imagine walking into a store for the first time and seeing the Cadians next to the Primaris. Assuming this potential customer doesn't walk out the door immediately because of the price, what models are they more likely to buy?

I was in highschool when the Cadian kit was released, I think it had a recut in that time too. Even then, people were complaining about the scale.

Revealing those new Gaunts Ghost models, and then revealing the Cadians, is one of the greatest troll jobs GW has pulled since nuking WHFB.

O'well, back to whining about too many Space Marine players

 posermcbogus wrote:
Man, just wanna say how stoked I am that GW finally started to come good on the promises of the "You Will Not Be Missed" post. Some actual tasteful racially diverse human sculpts are really nice. I dearly hope that they make these nice and cheap, so kids can get them when they start out.

It's a little rare coming from me, and tbh, I absolutely feel the frustration from guard players that this is the first infantry release since I've been in the hobby, but it's really refreshing to see a bit of diversity, gender- and racially-speaking, esp. when in the past GW's representation has been largely 'paint heads with white ethnotypical features some shade of brown and call it a day'.

Good job, GW, hope to see more of it going forward, across a few more ranges. (also pls GW remember there are more races than just White and Black kthnksbye)

Yes definitely. Stunning and brave!

The Cadian upgrade is great, exept for the fact its just more Cadians, more of the same.
GWs AM releases are infuriating. Catachan commanders, two named ratlings and a not full squad of Tanith. Seriously

Yet, it sure beats having to get 3 command boxes to build a veteran squad with meltas.
I mean, in case third party bits mongers didnt exist.

Well i thought they were 10mm. Since nobody seems to know for sure, who cares I guess? Im hoping for "small heresy bois"

I love how in the absence of any actual information people have latched on to 10mm Horus Heresy that someone literally made up 3 pages ago

 Jadenim wrote:
So the new boyz are super cool but painfully obviously repeated sculpts, as expected...

I'm sure a lot of people were expecting that, but I was really hoping for at least some interchangeability with arms / heads / weapons which would have helped hide the repeated bodies.

I was pretty surprised to see the display image models seem to match a single body to a single head to a single arm to a single weapon, I'll be curious to see the sprue, or if like other people suggested maybe it's a pushfit easy to build set.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:
So the new boyz are super cool but painfully obviously repeated sculpts, as expected...

I'm sure a lot of people were expecting that, but I was really hoping for at least some interchangeability with arms / heads / weapons which would have helped hide the repeated bodies.

I was pretty surprised to see the display image models seem to match a single body to a single head to a single arm to a single weapon, I'll be curious to see the sprue, or if like other people suggested maybe it's a pushfit easy to build set.

Why surprised? Common gw style these days.

Alternative would have been have just 10 boys in box. Think i take more models　still

 BertBert wrote:
One more thing that comes to mind: Would GW be able to "claim" Creative Assembly's 3D sculpts and re-use them in a lower resolution?
Not sure how their contract is set up, but as the copyright holder I'd imagine they have some leverage there to at least iterate on them.

i've seen 3D prints of Total War assets, so I assume GW would be able to do so just as well as Ivan in his shed at least.

Chatting at the pub last night. My friend is near certain the release is going to be Mordheim. I'm the complete opposite, I suspect if they do release a boxed game today it's more likely to be BFG, or, and this is a bit of a stretch, an announcement about The Old World game they mentioned a few years ago.

I'm liking the new Cadian stuff, but honestly the amount of bitching on Facebook groups is a bit ridiculous, people complaining about the proportions, or that they haven't done enough, or that it took too long for them to do it. I'm not the biggest GW fan, but seems in some cases it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

tneva82 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:
So the new boyz are super cool but painfully obviously repeated sculpts, as expected...

I'm sure a lot of people were expecting that, but I was really hoping for at least some interchangeability with arms / heads / weapons which would have helped hide the repeated bodies.

I was pretty surprised to see the display image models seem to match a single body to a single head to a single arm to a single weapon, I'll be curious to see the sprue, or if like other people suggested maybe it's a pushfit easy to build set.

Why surprised? Common gw style these days.

Alternative would have been have just 10 boys in box. Think i take more models　still

Surprised because it wouldn't have been a difficult thing to do, they've done similar in the past (Savage Orcs come to mind first) and it's more important for Orks to not look terribly same-ish even than most other armies. Even if the arms weren't interchangeable, not even having head interchangeability is surprising.

I imagine there will be 10 boyz in a box, what we've seen is an army set that includes Zodgrog and the Squig riders. Given they have 10 unique Boyz which are paired to the heads / weapons, I imagine they'll be sold as 10 man kits also. In an ideal world they would have had a bit of interchangeability and been boxed as 20 man kits, but a doubt that from what we've seen so far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Valkyrie wrote:
I'm liking the new Cadian stuff, but honestly the amount of bitching on Facebook groups is a bit ridiculous, people complaining about the proportions, or that they haven't done enough, or that it took too long for them to do it. I'm not the biggest GW fan, but seems in some cases it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

You can't do a token gesture like a few heads and then claim "damned if you do, damned if you don't.". Most long term guard players are already aware of many many options for 3rd party Guardsmen heads, Victoria miniatures have a whole range of not-Cadian females and female bits.

The Cadian kit is old and tired, don't expect wonderful compliments when an upgrade sprue is released for it.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Chatting at the pub last night. My friend is near certain the release is going to be Mordheim. I'm the complete opposite, I suspect if they do release a boxed game today it's more likely to be BFG, or, and this is a bit of a stretch, an announcement about The Old World game they mentioned a few years ago.

I'm liking the new Cadian stuff, but honestly the amount of bitching on Facebook groups is a bit ridiculous, people complaining about the proportions, or that they haven't done enough, or that it took too long for them to do it. I'm not the biggest GW fan, but seems in some cases it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

When thinking of a potential guard update, the last thing on anyone's mind was the current (18 year old) Cadian troop box getting a head upgrade sprue.

If they left it at Gaunt's Ghosts, everyone would have been hyped for potential new sculpts in the future. I think the reaction is completely justified.

If The Old World is a secret plot to revive Warmaster I’m sold. Fantastic game that sadly died the slow death of zero marketing and barely any support.

I wouldn’t even mind if they up and recycled the War of the Ring rules either.

IHateAoS wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Chatting at the pub last night. My friend is near certain the release is going to be Mordheim. I'm the complete opposite, I suspect if they do release a boxed game today it's more likely to be BFG, or, and this is a bit of a stretch, an announcement about The Old World game they mentioned a few years ago.

I'm liking the new Cadian stuff, but honestly the amount of bitching on Facebook groups is a bit ridiculous, people complaining about the proportions, or that they haven't done enough, or that it took too long for them to do it. I'm not the biggest GW fan, but seems in some cases it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

When thinking of a potential guard update, the last thing on anyone's mind was the current (18 year old) Cadian troop box getting a head upgrade sprue.

If they left it at Gaunt's Ghosts, everyone would have been hyped for potential new sculpts in the future. I think the reaction is completely justified.

I think the most dissapointing aspect of this upgrade sprue, is a confirmation the ancient-arse Cadian kit won't get updated for the forseeable like, 10 years

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Well i thought they were 10mm. Since nobody seems to know for sure, who cares I guess? Im hoping for "small heresy bois"

But we know for sure and have known since 2018. AT scale was chosen so that small marines would look nice and the designers ended up at about 8 mm MARINES, who being 7-8' tall transhuman monsters in fiction, means the normal 6' scale human would be about 6-7 mm with gear. With heroic proportions, of course, thus "heroic 6 mm". All talk of 8 mm or 10 mm scales has been nothing but hogwash from the very beginning, aided by GW's less than stellar media team's fumblings.

Without dragging the off-topic further, I wouldn't mind some hard GW plastics for Epic infantry either

I'm in no hurry for Epic given the pricing and size/ high detail of Aeronautica cause we're looking at 2 or 3 Rhinos per sprue for 20€, not half a company like it used to be.

 Sherrypie wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Well i thought they were 10mm. Since nobody seems to know for sure, who cares I guess? Im hoping for "small heresy bois"

But we know for sure and have known since 2018. AT scale was chosen so that small marines would look nice and the designers ended up at about 8 mm MARINES, who being 7-8' tall transhuman monsters in fiction, means the normal 6' scale human would be about 6-7 mm with gear. With heroic proportions, of course, thus "heroic 6 mm". All talk of 8 mm or 10 mm scales has been nothing but hogwash from the very beginning, aided by GW's less than stellar media team's fumblings.

Without dragging the off-topic further, I wouldn't mind some hard GW plastics for Epic infantry either

Why oh why did you have to make this post AI stuff is closer to 8mm. You can look up the fluff sizes for the aircraft, measure the AI aircraft, see what scale they are, and you will find they match 8mm scale. The original AI was 6mm scale, the original Epic was completely whacko scale with some things being as small as 3mm scale and others being as big as 7mm scale.

I don't know about AT, I don't own any AT to check it.

But in many ways there's little point talking about things like "8mm marines" or "normal 6' scale humans would be about 6-7mm", because none of those things exist at the AI/AT scale to make a comparison. In 40k, a human is the same size as a Space Marine anyway (these days it seems like the humans are getting even bigger ). The only non-vehicle thing we have are the Grot gunners on some weapons, and they are 5.5mm tall/long in a seated position, but ya know, they're grots, they aren't exactly a good reference bar.

What if the Cadian sprue was just a quick response to add some diversity to the range?

I fully expect that the Catachan resculpts will be released this year, and add more females and ethnotypes.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm in no hurry for Epic given the pricing and size/ high detail of Aeronautica cause we're looking at 2 or 3 Rhinos per sprue for 20€, not half a company like it used to be.

Who knows what we'd get with GW pricing. I'd hope that if Epic ever comes around they'll price it according to how many of a unit you are likely to need. In AI you rarely want more than 4 to 6 fighters, so they're boxed up as units of 4 to 6. But in Epic where you're going to need 10's of tanks to make a decent sized force, hopefully they're boxed and priced appropriately.

I’m still expecting a plastic Heresy thing. Simply because Forgeworld has been curiously absent this week.

 Sherrypie wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Well i thought they were 10mm. Since nobody seems to know for sure, who cares I guess? Im hoping for "small heresy bois"

But we know for sure and have known since 2018. AT scale was chosen so that small marines would look nice and the designers ended up at about 8 mm MARINES, who being 7-8' tall transhuman monsters in fiction, means the normal 6' scale human would be about 6-7 mm with gear. With heroic proportions, of course, thus "heroic 6 mm". All talk of 8 mm or 10 mm scales has been nothing but hogwash from the very beginning, aided by GW's less than stellar media team's fumblings.

Without dragging the off-topic further, I wouldn't mind some hard GW plastics for Epic infantry either

The official scale of AT is 25% of the 40k version - that's all. The issue is that GW has never even tried to do an official 'scale' in 40k. That depends entirely on the era it was designed.

A 2E era Firstborn marine or skitarii given the AT treatment would be around 7mm tall. 6E/7E era Firstborn models would be ~8mm. Primaris marines would be 9mm.

I do think that Horus Heresy would be a interesting way to continue 'Epic' scale stuff. Both sides can be covered by the same models at first (like the original games), there's a lot of customer overlap between existing HH & AT content, and it allows for the increase in battle scale as the storyline reaches the Siege of Terra.

During the previews this week, did they mention updating the GW site? I left a tab open while browsing, and a pop-up appeared saying that I had been on the page for awhile and if I'd like to talk to some "GW Help"

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:
So the new boyz are super cool but painfully obviously repeated sculpts, as expected...

I'm sure a lot of people were expecting that, but I was really hoping for at least some interchangeability with arms / heads / weapons which would have helped hide the repeated bodies.

I was pretty surprised to see the display image models seem to match a single body to a single head to a single arm to a single weapon, I'll be curious to see the sprue, or if like other people suggested maybe it's a pushfit easy to build set.

See, I told you this is exactly what would happen.

From the pictures and videos it seems like every boy is four parts - a front/back side bit which includes the head and should pads and two arms with either slugga/choppa or shoota. None of the weapons appear on different torsos, so it's safe to assume that each weapon is meant to fit on only one pose. We might be lucky and some arms might fit with other torsos with just a little bit of green stuff, similar to the plague marine or blightlord sets.

It's also worth noting that all of them use chain-axe choppas, so this might be a special choppa similar to the astartes chainsword.

I'm also wondering what this boy is holding:


Is that a shotgun? A grenade launcher? It doesn't look like a shoota or the boomstikks on the wartrike/squigbuggy.

I mean the closest real world thing I can think of is a PIAT? Possibly a grenade launcher*, which would be an odd addition to the Ork range after all this time.

* Sorry, “Boom-stikk chukka”

 Jidmah wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:
So the new boyz are super cool but painfully obviously repeated sculpts, as expected...

I'm sure a lot of people were expecting that, but I was really hoping for at least some interchangeability with arms / heads / weapons which would have helped hide the repeated bodies.

I was pretty surprised to see the display image models seem to match a single body to a single head to a single arm to a single weapon, I'll be curious to see the sprue, or if like other people suggested maybe it's a pushfit easy to build set.

See, I told you this is exactly what would happen.

From the pictures and videos it seems like every boy is four parts - a front/back side bit which includes the head and should pads and two arms with either slugga/choppa or shoota. None of the weapons appear on different torsos, so it's safe to assume that each weapon is meant to fit on only one pose. We might be lucky and some arms might fit with other torsos with just a little bit of green stuff, similar to the plague marine or blightlord sets.

It's also worth noting that all of them use chain-axe choppas, so this might be a special choppa similar to the astartes chainsword.

I'm also wondering what this boy is holding:

Spoiler:

Is that a shotgun? A grenade launcher? It doesn't look like a shoota or the boomstikks on the wartrike/squigbuggy.

I think he's just holding a very large pipe and making "pew-pew" noises

 Jidmah wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:
So the new boyz are super cool but painfully obviously repeated sculpts, as expected...

I'm sure a lot of people were expecting that, but I was really hoping for at least some interchangeability with arms / heads / weapons which would have helped hide the repeated bodies.

I was pretty surprised to see the display image models seem to match a single body to a single head to a single arm to a single weapon, I'll be curious to see the sprue, or if like other people suggested maybe it's a pushfit easy to build set.

See, I told you this is exactly what would happen.

I never had a strong opinion what "would" happen, just thoughts on different options. I'm not exactly crying either way.

It's not like they're removing old boyz, so you're free to continue buying the crusty 18 year old models

From the pictures and videos it seems like every boy is four parts - a front/back side bit which includes the head and should pads and two arms with either slugga/choppa or shoota. None of the weapons appear on different torsos, so it's safe to assume that each weapon is meant to fit on only one pose.

That's why I think the people suggesting these are just easy to build kits are probably right.

Monopose is one thing, but not even having interchangeable heads is pretty extreme and only really makes sense if they're easy to build kits.

So hey, not all is lost, maybe we'll get a not-so-easy-to-build kit down the track.

At this point, I’m really hoping they are a separate sprue for the box set, or will at least come with an additional weapon sprue in the final independent release, because this will kill the look of Ork armies. I could get behind combined legs and torso bodies, but at least give the option to switch around the heads and arms to stop them looking identical.

The Necromunda kits are a great example of this; I can get a huge variety in my Escher gang even with only five basic bodies and it’s annoying that one part of GW seems to get this and others don’t.

Could be a net launcher?!? they hunt big game so why not.

 Jadenim wrote:
At this point, I’m really hoping they are a separate sprue for the box set, or will at least come with an additional weapon sprue in the final independent release, because this will kill the look of Ork armies. I could get behind combined legs and torso bodies, but at least give the option to switch around the heads and arms to stop them looking identical.

The Necromunda kits are a great example of this; I can get a huge variety in my Escher gang even with only five basic bodies and it’s annoying that one part of GW seems to get this and others don’t.

Poor Cawdor...

 Jadenim wrote:
At this point, I’m really hoping they are a separate sprue for the box set, or will at least come with an additional weapon sprue in the final independent release, because this will kill the look of Ork armies. I could get behind combined legs and torso bodies, but at least give the option to switch around the heads and arms to stop them looking identical.

The Necromunda kits are a great example of this; I can get a huge variety in my Escher gang even with only five basic bodies and it’s annoying that one part of GW seems to get this and others don’t.

I don't own them, but was looking at the Goliath kit and from what I can see they're monopose but with heaps of options in terms of which chest plate, head and arms go on which of the bodies, but they wouldn't fall into the easy-to-build category.

So it's not like GW don't know how to do a monopose kit that also has lots of flexibility.

Hopefully these Orks are just for this initial boxed set and we get something more akin to the Goliath for the regular boxed set that come out later.

Imagine something like the Goliath sprue, but with 10 body and arm options instead of 5, I think you could put together a pretty unique horde of 50 to 100 Orks without too much in the way of repetition.

As an ork and guard player. I'm quite happy with this lot. I have no doubt in my mind that there will be more coming along for both factions in the very near future. Orks certainly soon, as they mentioned this first lot is only about half of what's coming. I really hope a new Boyz box is part of it as I've been holding off from buying another mob since that tease with the shoulder mounted weapons. The guard head sprue should have come years ago but hey.. I do hope though that they will start selling an entire sprue of re-breathers, ski masks, etc..
As others have mentioned over many threads. The upgrade sprue could be a way of filling in the unsupported regiments along with a long coat base box.

Vim

Not Online!!! wrote:
Could be a net launcher?!? they hunt big game so why not.

Net launcher or some variant of punt gun yea

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Could be a net launcher?!? they hunt big game so why not.

Net launcher or some variant of punt gun yea

i mean there was talk of harpooning, so maybee it's the empty harpoon gun?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
It's not like they're removing old boyz, so you're free to continue buying the crusty 18 year old models

Yeah right, this argument again. They undoubtedly will be shoved to the side with unfavorable rules just like most of the firstborn range to force you into buying the new hot stuff. Considering how boyz are already only marginally usable under specific circumstances, it's not even hard to do.

From the pictures and videos it seems like every boy is four parts - a front/back side bit which includes the head and should pads and two arms with either slugga/choppa or shoota. None of the weapons appear on different torsos, so it's safe to assume that each weapon is meant to fit on only one pose.

That's why I think the people suggesting these are just easy to build kits are probably right.

Monopose is one thing, but not even having interchangeable heads is pretty extreme and only really makes sense if they're easy to build kits.

So hey, not all is lost, maybe we'll get a not-so-easy-to-build kit down the track.

Grasping to straws to deny reality again, are we?

DG full kits only have one helmeted and one unhelmeted head per model, these heads rarely, if ever, fit other models.

Limited premium boxes also don't contain ETB sets. This is neither a starter box nor duel set.

GW also should have learned that no one will buy the full set for troops as long as a cheaper ETB variant is around.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:
At this point, I’m really hoping they are a separate sprue for the box set, or will at least come with an additional weapon sprue in the final independent release, because this will kill the look of Ork armies. I could get behind combined legs and torso bodies, but at least give the option to switch around the heads and arms to stop them looking identical.

The Necromunda kits are a great example of this; I can get a huge variety in my Escher gang even with only five basic bodies and it’s annoying that one part of GW seems to get this and others don’t.

I don't own them, but was looking at the Goliath kit and from what I can see they're monopose but with heaps of options in terms of which chest plate, head and arms go on which of the bodies, but they wouldn't fall into the easy-to-build category.

So it's not like GW don't know how to do a monopose kit that also has lots of flexibility.

Hopefully these Orks are just for this initial boxed set and we get something more akin to the Goliath for the regular boxed set that come out later.

I have all the base gang kits, Escher, Goliath and Orlocks are noticeably better than the others, pretty much any head/arm combo works. Although some Eschers are like Juves and have smaller arms and bodies. Cawdor and Van Saar are extremely limited by comparison. Delaque is still in the box so I can't comment.

 Jidmah wrote:
Grasping to straws to deny reality again, are we?

Dude, you are taking this discussion / argument approximately 50 million times more seriously than I am, give it a rest.

Until we see the final sprues we don't know what's going to happen. Maybe this is all we get, given it's a sub-branch of Orks rather than replacing the main Ork Boyz kit I don't necessarily expect them to put a huge amount of effort into doing both a starter easy-to-build kit and also a more flexible kit later. Maybe this is just a taster of a bigger Ork update to come.

Just look at the Goliath and pray you get something like that. Then look at the new Cadian upgrade sprue and pray you don't get something like that****



****I'm joking, something like the Cadian sprue for Orks would actually be nice, it just sucks for Cadians.


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IHateAoS wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Jadenim wrote:
At this point, I’m really hoping they are a separate sprue for the box set, or will at least come with an additional weapon sprue in the final independent release, because this will kill the look of Ork armies. I could get behind combined legs and torso bodies, but at least give the option to switch around the heads and arms to stop them looking identical.

The Necromunda kits are a great example of this; I can get a huge variety in my Escher gang even with only five basic bodies and it’s annoying that one part of GW seems to get this and others don’t.

I don't own them, but was looking at the Goliath kit and from what I can see they're monopose but with heaps of options in terms of which chest plate, head and arms go on which of the bodies, but they wouldn't fall into the easy-to-build category.

So it's not like GW don't know how to do a monopose kit that also has lots of flexibility.

Hopefully these Orks are just for this initial boxed set and we get something more akin to the Goliath for the regular boxed set that come out later.

I have all the base gang kits, Escher, Goliath and Orlocks are noticeably better than the others, pretty much any head/arm combo works. Although some Eschers are like Juves and have smaller arms and bodies. Cawdor and Van Saar are extremely limited by comparison. Delaque is still in the box so I can't comment.

I'm not familiar with the chronologyof Necro releases, but does that mean the kits are getting worse with time, or just random?

Yes. They are getting worse.

I don't own Palanites though. I assume Corpse Grinders are monopose as hell.

The infuriating thin is that when GW wants they can do "monopose" kits that are extremely varied like blightkings or the newer Rockgutt Troggoth box (That I tought had 0 options because literally ALL photos that GW used are of the exact same 3 models but it has a ton of variety) but then they sell you crap like the Slaangor box that is an insult compared with the trogg one.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm not familiar with the chronologyof Necro releases, but does that mean the kits are getting worse with time, or just random?

Seems like a practical limitation. It's harder to do multiple poses on models with full body outfits like Delaques, compared to designs like Escher / Goliath where a lot have bare arms. Not impossible, but it’s definitely harder to make everything look natural.

The Rockgutt Troggoths are a standout kit for sure, the ultimate fusion of 90s modularity and modern detail. Putting the whole shoulder down to the spatula for each arm was genius and allows for varied poses while keeping the musculature fully detailed and realistic (contrast to the ball/socket joint of old Rat Ogres, for example).

I was also pretty impressed with how the arm poses of the first Goliath sprue made for very different figures. And yeah, wasn't really continued in later kits.

It’s not as if the existing Boyz kit is all that full of variety, as they share a common pose.

Specifically most left and right arms at roughly 45 degree angles. Majority of right hands are Sluggas, Choppas for Left (I think only one deviation per side).

So by the time you’ve finished assembling them. Even if you’ve taken care to ensure no two assembled models use exactly the same part? They look entirely much of a muchness, especially when deployed as larger Mobs?

To get more variety out of the Snaggas, from the ones we’ve seen it looks to be a relatively straight forward hand or weapon swap.