Aren73 wrote: @NewTruthNeomaxim - that's a fair point, you can, then again that means the second wave is still reasonably far back and a single Necromancer shouldn't be that difficult to kill, even with the new shooting rules and once he's dead that's it, no more summoning.
@rayphoton - completely true I'm being silly, of course there is that rule. So now LoN like it when you leave their units with a few guys left AND when you kill them outright...It is a decent boost to the army
I feel like people always forget the part where a killed General is immediately replaced with another hero being named General. You're right about the Necro being squishy, but technically they have to remove ALL your heroes before they're 100% safe from you summoning.
Except that isn't the way it works. You do not automatically name a new General, barring some other special rule which is not in the core rules.
Edit: This is even explicitly covered in the FAQ
Q: If your general is slain, can you choose a new model to be
your general?
A: No, unless specifically noted otherwise.
Aren73 wrote: @NewTruthNeomaxim - that's a fair point, you can, then again that means the second wave is still reasonably far back and a single Necromancer shouldn't be that difficult to kill, even with the new shooting rules and once he's dead that's it, no more summoning.
@rayphoton - completely true I'm being silly, of course there is that rule. So now LoN like it when you leave their units with a few guys left AND when you kill them outright...It is a decent boost to the army
I feel like people always forget the part where a killed General is immediately replaced with another hero being named General. You're right about the Necro being squishy, but technically they have to remove ALL your heroes before they're 100% safe from you summoning.
Q: If your general is slain, can you choose a new model to be your general?
A: No, unless specifically noted otherwise.
I'm not seeing anything in the Legions of Nagash battletome that allows you choose a new general. The "If, for any reason, you must select a new general during a battle, immediately generate a trait for them." passage doesn't allow you to choose a new general it just allows you to generate a trait for them if it happens.
Aren73 wrote: I mean....do I throw my zombie dragon vampire lord at you to munch your units or do I not do that so that a skeleton unit can come back really far away from you?
And yeah, you can make a rando necromancer your general, though that's not how I roll. But yes, possible - then again it's easier to kill/snipe a necromancer than a vampire lord on zombie dragon.
Also, if you can leave his units with 1 or 2 dudes left he can't summon them. It will be a game of "How badly can I hurt that unit without wiping it out?"
The legions of nagash summoning ability has enough restrictions that a competent player can completely shut it down. I'd worry a lot more about the tzeentch/sylvaneth/flesh eater ones
Except everything you listed here as equivalent counters for the LoN player. What happens if I have something that can block off you vampire lord long enough for my big hitters to do the munching? I also don't understand the obsession with skeletons being brought back when you can take hexwraiths or blackknights or Dire wolves and regenerate multiple times in a game and never be out of the fight for very long. Then you have graveguard which can blob up. Who said anything about a rando necromancer? You could do Arkhan or Nagash, camp them on an objective and just lay waste to your army from half a mile away, especially with umbral spell portal. The VLoZD wasn't great before, now needing a CP every turn to actually be able to hit something means it's pretty poor now. Leave the unit with 1-2 dudes left is both A. Impractically difficult to do to large units due to morale losses and the change to IP and B. Not going to help when he can bring most of the unit back to life in a turn also.
The legions of Nagash summoning has enough restrictions that a competent player can work to prevent it, but also enough freedom that a competent player should be able to guarantee significant use out of it. Is it OP? Maybe, maybe not. Is it something that you'll be able to shut down every-game against a good player just because you know theoretically how? Absolutely not.
For Slaanesh at least De-Buffing and Speed worked rather well for me running circles around my last LON opponent and he had two 40 stacks of Skeletons which covered almost half the map. He could not summon anything since we were fightning directly over the graveyards he placed and I surrounded him ans eventually completely dislodged his forces from the graveyard sites preventing him from summoning back his skeleton stack.
Pretty pumped that the newest faction focus was “The Beasts of Chaos” instead of just “Brayherd”. Gives me hope that they will get the LoN treatment, rolling all the various Chaos critters under one umbrella.
Long shot I know, but I can dream!
Need to get rebasing on my Bullgors though, to hit the ground running when they are reduced in points. I’d buy more, but they’ve been “Out of Stock”for months. May go the Bullgor/Cygor boxed set route 1-2 times though.
I'm still hoping Monsters of Chaos will be added to the allies options for Slaves to Darkness. Right now, there's no way to take a Slaughterbrute in a Slaves to Darkness army despite the Slaughterbrute being bound to a Slaves hero.
The choice of which realm you decide to set your battle in is up to you – the realm you fight in might depend on the story you want to tell, while for structured events, you could have every single game take place in the same Mortal Realm, journey through several, or roll a dice to decide. Likewise, if you don’t fancy using a Mortal Realm, you don’t have to – but you’ll be missing out on some really fun stuff if you do.
If you’re looking to use the endless spells in your army, you’ll want to make sure you pick up a Firebelly. As well as having seen a points reduction, this guy is great for healing your units with an Emerald Lifeswarm, and if you want to do some damage, there are loads of options – although for pure style, you can’t beat flinging a cloud of Quicksilver Swords at the foe:
So...currently, what we have are artefacts and spells for our army based on the realm they're from. Then, depending on the realm you're fighting in, you get different command abilities, random events/buffs and spells.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Did they just seriously brag about deep point discounts on Thundertusks???
Not sure what your point is. Beast claw have pretty much been at the bottom of the barrel competitively since their rules got tweaked.
If by competitive you strictly mean ability to win top-tier events with ultra-competitive minded players, sure.
If you mean competitive in the sense of rolling into a store-level event, or random game-night and provide absolutely miserable games to anyone against them that isn't tailored for it, I would beg to differ.
Even a super casual gaming environment like a MiniWarGaming.com is a perfect window into how unfun Beastclaw Thundertusk spam is for literally anyone not expressly loaded for bear.
Aren73 wrote: So...currently, what we have are artefacts and spells for our army based on the realm they're from. Then, depending on the realm you're fighting in, you get different command abilities, random events/buffs and spells.
Well wow...that's tons of options
Spells are based on what realm you're fighting in, not what realm the army is from.
Last, but not least, each of the Mortal Realms has a massive selection of spells associated with it, representing the unique powers that Wizards are able to harness. Each realm has seven spells, ALL of which will be available to ANY Wizard fighting in that realm.
Knight wrote: Some love for Swifthawk agents / old highborn would be appreciated.
I'm thinking we'll see some Swifthawk Agents love with Shadowkin, personally.
It's been interesting to see them further breaking up the whole "These Elves were all the same faction originally, so they can be part of this one now!" with the Daughters of Khaine and Deepkin. I didn't expect to see Eldritch Council in the Deepkin allies list.
Finally, choosing a Realm has a range of impacts on certain warscrolls. Each endless spell, for example, is more powerful when cast in its associated realm – so make sure to grab a Burning Head if you’re battling in Aqshy, or an Aethervoid Pendulum if you find yourself in Ulgu…
Sorry I meant that your Endless Spells are based on the realm you're from. Otherwise you couldn't not cast them in their associated realm. So the realm you're fighting in changes the spells available, but you can always choose endless spells from any realm before, they're almost like artefacts you have to cast.
Good thing I've got a few start collecting Skeleton Hordes laying around unbuilt. They should hopefully serve pretty well for a Nighthaunt army I didn't need.
Pretty sure the "master" bit is either a typo or can be used interchangeably - I'd be very surprised if mortrarch is a dude, from everything we've been shown so far
The model on the throne is neat. I don't like all these models loosely attached to a base by a thin ' ghost tail,' though. Seems overly fragile, and in this case, lopsided and unbalanced.
I think GW has gone way overboard chasing 'dynamic' poses. Give me something solid with feet on the ground.
Voss wrote: The model on the throne is neat. I don't like all these models loosely attached to a base by a thin ' ghost tail,' though. Seems overly fragile, and in this case, lopsided and unbalanced.
I think GW has gone way overboard chasing 'dynamic' poses. Give me something solid with feet on the ground.
Yes, because solid with feet on the ground perfectly evokes ghosts.
Voss wrote: The model on the throne is neat. I don't like all these models loosely attached to a base by a thin ' ghost tail,' though. Seems overly fragile, and in this case, lopsided and unbalanced.
I think GW has gone way overboard chasing 'dynamic' poses. Give me something solid with feet on the ground.
Yes, because solid with feet on the ground perfectly evokes ghosts.
Two boots behind an axe head, two disembodied gauntlets resting on the end of the shaft. Add wispy effect out of the top of the boots and gauntlets, paint ghostly, done.
Voss wrote: The model on the throne is neat. I don't like all these models loosely attached to a base by a thin ' ghost tail,' though. Seems overly fragile, and in this case, lopsided and unbalanced.
I think GW has gone way overboard chasing 'dynamic' poses. Give me something solid with feet on the ground.
The Tzeentch models with a similar "tail" are actually very stable.
Voss wrote: The model on the throne is neat. I don't like all these models loosely attached to a base by a thin ' ghost tail,' though. Seems overly fragile, and in this case, lopsided and unbalanced.
I think GW has gone way overboard chasing 'dynamic' poses. Give me something solid with feet on the ground.
Yes, because solid with feet on the ground perfectly evokes ghosts.
. No physical model is going to perfectly evoke ghosts. Doesn't mean a fragile tab/tail stuck to the bottom of a throne is anything but a problem.
But. Its also been a larger problem throughout multiple model ranges for years now. Lots of jumping, leaping and bad connections.
Though for the record, the old wraiths and banshees did have feet.
@Entyme- which models are you referring to? The discs and chariot have thick plumes of fire that have a solid central pillar and reinforcing flames that curl back on the layers below them.
Voss wrote: The model on the throne is neat. I don't like all these models loosely attached to a base by a thin ' ghost tail,' though. Seems overly fragile, and in this case, lopsided and unbalanced.
I think GW has gone way overboard chasing 'dynamic' poses. Give me something solid with feet on the ground.
Yes, because solid with feet on the ground perfectly evokes ghosts.
. No physical model is going to perfectly evoke ghosts. Doesn't mean a fragile tab/tail stuck to the bottom of a throne is anything but a problem.
But. Its also been a larger problem throughout multiple model ranges for years now. Lots of jumping, leaping and bad connections.
Though for the record, the old wraiths and banshees did have feet.
@Entyme- which models are you referring to? The discs and chariot have thick plumes of fire that have a solid central pillar and reinforcing flames that curl back on the layers below them.
I think, as usual, it's another exaggeration of a very minor issue. Pinning is easy if you feel you need more stability.
Kurdoss Valentian, the Craven King, is one of the named champions who leads Nagash’s Nighthaunt legions. Serving at the side of his master, the Mortarch of Grief, this arch-plotter and schemer is an incredibly astute – if embittered and cruel – commander. He’s also not afraid to smash some Stormcast skulls with that mace…
There is nothing there that refers to the gender of the Mortarch of Grief.
Voss wrote: The model on the throne is neat. I don't like all these models loosely attached to a base by a thin ' ghost tail,' though. Seems overly fragile, and in this case, lopsided and unbalanced.
I think GW has gone way overboard chasing 'dynamic' poses. Give me something solid with feet on the ground.
Yes, because solid with feet on the ground perfectly evokes ghosts.
. No physical model is going to perfectly evoke ghosts. Doesn't mean a fragile tab/tail stuck to the bottom of a throne is anything but a problem.
But. Its also been a larger problem throughout multiple model ranges for years now. Lots of jumping, leaping and bad connections.
Though for the record, the old wraiths and banshees did have feet.
@Entyme- which models are you referring to? The discs and chariot have thick plumes of fire that have a solid central pillar and reinforcing flames that curl back on the layers below them.
I think, as usual, it's another exaggeration of a very minor issue. Pinning is easy if you feel you need more stability.
Ah, I didn't realize I was ' exaggerating' a preference for more stable and solid models, let alone that it was 'usual' for me.
Also not sure how you 'pin' a thin curved surface.
Voss wrote: The model on the throne is neat. I don't like all these models loosely attached to a base by a thin ' ghost tail,' though. Seems overly fragile, and in this case, lopsided and unbalanced.
I think GW has gone way overboard chasing 'dynamic' poses. Give me something solid with feet on the ground.
Yes, because solid with feet on the ground perfectly evokes ghosts.
. No physical model is going to perfectly evoke ghosts. Doesn't mean a fragile tab/tail stuck to the bottom of a throne is anything but a problem.
But. Its also been a larger problem throughout multiple model ranges for years now. Lots of jumping, leaping and bad connections.
Though for the record, the old wraiths and banshees did have feet.
@Entyme- which models are you referring to? The discs and chariot have thick plumes of fire that have a solid central pillar and reinforcing flames that curl back on the layers below them.
The Tzaangor Shaman has the smallest point-of-contact, and I haven't have any issues with it. The Nighthaunts models I've seen previewed seem to have about the same area of contact between the model and the base.
Oooobviously the way to fix everything else being too expensive is to lower the cost of the best unit. Nobody would eeeever abuse that by taking more of them. Clearly the only logical response would be to field those other units that cost too much.
AoS 2.0 seems more and more like "Hey guys, we need a new AoS edition because it's received pretty well right now. Throw every idea you have in it, we'll fix them in the next 3 years."
I actually think the changes are positive - I'm pretty excited for the effects of realms, I think it could serve to make the games more thematic. Before we really didn't care where our battles were taking place, could have easily been the Old World again, this really helps solidify the new setting. It's probably unbalanced. You don't just add that many new artefacts, spells and in game effects to the game and expect it to be balanced but over time the worst offenders will be rooted out.
I'm very exited for AoS 2nd ed, outside of competitive play where I will wait to see the full deal but am prepared to give up entirely. What I am confused by is how GW seems to be pushing matched play as a ruleset based around two forces of equal points being reasonably balanced while pushing trends that will make it so even players not min-maxing could easily show up with lists at wildly different power levels--this forces a process of players balancing things themselves if they are interested in an even playing field, turning matched play into a set of tools for the job. Which is entirely what narrative play is supposed to be. Compare to 40k where matched play is supposed to be the balanced version (the degree of success is debatable but the intent is pretty clear) and is treated as such. What passes for matched play in AoS is just like playing 40k off only power levels; we have no option for points.
But circling back to the narrative side of things, hyped for all the new elements to play with. We are at the point of playing more Path to Glory in my community than matched play anyways and I needed something new for the next league.
These are very good! They bring back a simpler time of the Old world where the story has just gotten all the spell 'types' for wizards. I am pleased to see magic get the spotlight.
Someone with the White Dwarf has stated the contents of the new starter set are the following:
So all these items plus a full rulebook, ala Dark Imperium.
Unlike other predatory endless spells, the Aethervoid Pendulum moves constantly in a straight line, cleaving across the battlefield – making it less risky to your forces. Should it make contact with a unit, it’ll deal a decent chunk of mortal wounds to them, too.
I like how the Endless Spells have so many different movement mechanics. Some are moved by the player, at least one has a set movement pattern, and then you have the static mirror spell.
Not sure how I feel here. Death looks awesome and new spells (models and abilities) seem very cool.
SCE: I already have a HUGE force with Judicators/Liberators. I didn't do anything with the Vanguard updates and the only thing that interests me at the moment is the ballista.
Have SCE changed so much to need such a large line?
Not sure how I feel here. Death looks awesome and new spells (models and abilities) seem very cool.
SCE: I already have a HUGE force with Judicators/Liberators. I didn't do anything with the Vanguard updates and the only thing that interests me at the moment is the ballista.
Have SCE changed so much to need such a large line?
The new Stormcast Eternals are from the Sacrosanct Chamber which specialize in fighting magical foes. In case you haven't seen it, they did an article on Warhammer Community giving a sneak peek at the new models.
Not sure how I feel here. Death looks awesome and new spells (models and abilities) seem very cool.
SCE: I already have a HUGE force with Judicators/Liberators. I didn't do anything with the Vanguard updates and the only thing that interests me at the moment is the ballista.
Have SCE changed so much to need such a large line?
The new Stormcast Eternals are from the Sacrosanct Chamber which specialize in fighting magical foes. In case you haven't seen it, they did an article on Warhammer Community giving a sneak peek at the new models.
Ghaz wrote: Warhammer Community confirms base to base measuring and a document of recommended base sizes will be posted on the release of the new edition.
Yeah. Honestly they should have lead with the base to base measuring. Its a welcome piece of sanity overwriting some of the dumber decisions of AoS 1.0.
Though they should have made an official call on round bases as well, not just a list of recommendations. I get why they didn't (having rebased more than once) , but it leaves the rules open to gripes about corner cases.
Ghaz wrote: Warhammer Community confirms base to base measuring and a document of recommended base sizes will be posted on the release of the new edition.
Yeah. Honestly they should have lead with the base to base measuring. Its a welcome piece of sanity overwriting some of the dumber decisions of AoS 1.0.
Though they should have made an official call on round bases as well, not just a list of recommendations. I get why they didn't (having debased more than once) , but it leaves the rules open to gripes about corner cases.
GW has never dictated base sizes or shapes outside 3rd edition WHFB, not even in 40K which is generally considered their most competitive game (they seem to share that sentiment as well, treating AoS as more casual). Just seems to be something they are not interested in doing.
They get the best of both worlds that way. Casual/friendly settings let players use the bases they happen to have their models on with TFG basing for advantage being dealt with as one does. Meanwhile tournaments will enforce the standard sizes like they already have been.
I have a pretty decent army of Stormcast, just from buying the original starter set, and blightwar. If this is what is really in the new set, that's great! I don't see myself playing undead, but I like the models.
It would be cool if they cast the sold separately from the starter box undead in a transparent plastic, as you could do some cool painting stuff with that, and it would give a reason to buy them separate from the boxed starter, or as bits.
Been out the loop a bit recently! New edition is looking fantastic though. Any rumours of what's to come after the Nighthaunt/Stormcast? Or anyone got any guesses for fun?
Ghaz wrote: Warhammer Community confirms base to base measuring and a document of recommended base sizes will be posted on the release of the new edition.
Yeah. Honestly they should have lead with the base to base measuring. Its a welcome piece of sanity overwriting some of the dumber decisions of AoS 1.0.
Though they should have made an official call on round bases as well, not just a list of recommendations. I get why they didn't (having debased more than once) , but it leaves the rules open to gripes about corner cases.
GW has never dictated base sizes or shapes outside 3rd edition WHFB, not even in 40K which is generally considered their most competitive game (they seem to share that sentiment as well, treating AoS as more casual). Just seems to be something they are not interested in doing.
6th edition specified base sizes, largely based on unit type and Unit Strength.
Edit: Ok, whether the rulebook was included or not was a decider for me if I got the box, that answer is now a yes. Also, that's a big ass box for the Malign Sorcery set.
For some reason I had assumed the new general's handbook stuff would be part of the 2nd edition rule rulebook. Guess I'll have to choose between one of them now.
6th edition specified base sizes, largely based on unit type and Unit Strength.
That was one card insert in White Dwarf, which was never reprinted. It was missing one or two models and was out of date the next month as soon as something new was released.
really like the new night haunts (the sc are atrocious as always, bar the chocobo rider). don't like that they release even more push fit outisde the main box. I really hope that these undead flying dogs wil have a real kit. Would be a shame if they don't since they are the coolest units of the new release, and it would suck if you have to field them looking like clones
The new spells are really interesting, but I would have like them to be restricted by alliance. Wonder what the price will be. Probably around the cost of the main box. Seems like AOS stopped being the cheap alternative to 40k. If you want to have all of the rules (core rule book,Malign sorcery and General Comepdium), It probably will cost at least 300$
But I must say Good job to GW. Finally AOS is starting to look like a real game (there seems to be a ton of fluff included in the main book) and not Fisher Price my first Wargame
Well, I'll happily concede those might not be Shadespire models. Though previously, my argument was only that their bases are sculpted, not regular, which does still look to be correct.
Anyone else getting Wrath of the Lich King vibes from that video? "Arthas my son, I always wanted you to be Stormcast"
Also...GW have hit it out of the park, this is better than Deepkin....AoS has such an edge in recent releases compared to 40k it's not even funny. Primaris? Pfft, look at those ghosts!
I'm also really liking the direction they are taking spells; having magical effects and summons on the battlefield makes the magic feel far more real than it resolving just like a regular attack or ability.
Would have been nice to see unique spell sets perfaction, but perhaps we'll see that in the future as the game evolves - right now a single set of combined magic everyone can dip into at least lets them test the waters with this new direction of magic. If it proves to be a big selling product and fun key part of the game I'm sure we'd see factions or alliances getting their own permanent spell roster.
They are. And rather sneaky too, slipping in there at the end of the deluge of content.
GW went a bit nuts on this release. It's good to see.
To be fair Sigmar needs them go nuts for a bit to really push it out after a whole year of super strong 40K pushing. Granted Sigmar releases have had the bulk of new models in them thus far (at least compared to 40K where some armies got nothing or just a single new model) so there's been a huge amount of fantasy focus.
But yeah the first week along is a huge release so I'm looking forwrad to more - esp since we know that there's a lot of undead models to come!
And, to top it all off, you get the complete Core Book for the new edition – all 320 glorious pages in full colour and wrapped in a sturdy hardback cover.
The Core Book is included in the Soul Wars box, but for those that want it on its own, you will also be able to pick it up separately.
Somewhat confused as they seem to clearly say the core book is in the soul wars box, but the picture they give shows softcover booklets, with "Core Rules" not "Core Book" as the title, plus the filename of the image is: "AoSSoulWarsLaunch-Booklets12tc", note the "Launch Booklets" part.
So which is it, do we get a full hardback book with Soul Wars or a softcover rules "booklet" ?
There is a video on the community page showing everything :
We'll get :
- A small Core rules booklet
- A Start here intro booklet
- A Battles for Glymmsforge narrative intro booklet
- A builing instruction guide booklet
- the full 320 pages Corebook
Out of interest have they mentioned about the permenant spells being solo castings or if the same side in an army can cast the same one more than once - ergo meaning you'd ideally want two spell boxed sets?
Maybe its internal design lets it act as a carry-case? Since its an expansion rather than a "core" function in theory the idea that its shipping box could double as a box to hold assembled models and rules would be a neat twist.
Even if many a gamer might well replace it with a different container; plus I'm hoping that even though its designed as an expansion it will rise to become part of the normal gameplay (ergo an expansion practically everyone uses)
Now with the arrival of the Soul Wars set, 2nd edition, malign sorcery, think we can say that AoS has recovered the glory of WHFB past? It no longer seems like a tacked on rushed expansion from WHFB, their expansion on the lore seems to be fleshing out the world more, I think AoS is now coming into it's own properly.
Looks like anyone complaining that 40k had too many books to carry around is going to have even more issue with Sigmar now. Rulebook, battletome, general's handbook, sorcery book, and all the FAQs after the fact of course.
Aren73 wrote: Now with the arrival of the Soul Wars set, 2nd edition, malign sorcery, think we can say that AoS has recovered the glory of WHFB past? It no longer seems like a tacked on rushed expansion from WHFB, their expansion on the lore seems to be fleshing out the world more, I think AoS is now coming into it's own properly.
It looks like it might start coming into its own.
'Recapturing the glory' is... more difficult. While it has more setting detail now (and strikes me as going back to Moorcockian roots, a blank map slowly filled in with weird and horrible wonders cropping up for the next installment), there is still a sense of detachment and lack of identifiable motivation. The focus on grand designs and realm shattering quakes still lacks a sense of reasonable people with understandable motivations, something the old world did fairly well at times.
I think the biggest reasonable world building element I've seen so far was from the Dispossessed faction focus article. Which amounts to, yeah, the Actual Dwarfs are still around and they built the big cities post Sigmarine Assault.
mmzero252 wrote: Looks like anyone complaining that 40k had too many books to carry around is going to have even more issue with Sigmar now. Rulebook, battletome, general's handbook, sorcery book, and all the FAQs after the fact of course.
Technically you don't need the Sorcery book as that's an optional expansion. It might also be that just using the spells normally you might only need the datacards and the book only offers more varied/campaign/scripted use of the spells.
Also chances are the mini-rulebook will include all the core rules - the big rule book is over half lore and fluff and not-needed day to game for gaming.
Also FAQ's are mostly just a few sheets of paper rather than a whole book.
In terms of books - it's all pretty much for reference. How much of a GHB are you really using in a game, 4 pages? You'll need your battletome and the rules booklet to look at more regularly, everything else is just a reference should something come up.
It is somewhat of a concern as it can slow a game down, but hopefully they'll release more of those handy profile cards, so that really you only need to get the rules out in case of a query and not for minute to minute use.
@Voss - well it's becoming all quite 40k ish. There is a grand narrative, a sort of high resolution faction goals and global events, that are taking place in a pretty low resolution world where the places and people are more generic. The Old World had a beautifully crafted map that you could enjoy saying "this event is taking place here and here is what the people there are like and this is the history of the place"
AoS however, isn't place driven it is very much character and narrative driven. For all we care it could be taking place in the sugarplum kingdom in candy land, but the events of the nurgle invasions and now Nagash resurgent, all of those help to build a narrative to give your games meaning. The new realm rules also help to give your battles a bit more unique feeling.
I think it will be very difficult to give places meaning in AoS, really the better known places are what, Hammerhal and Shadespire maybe? They'd have to give places important functions, like for example a city keeping a realmgate open or the last stormcast foothold in a specific realm, to give any meaning to fighting over them.
Anyway, sorry that was somewhat of a ramble, I'm just really excited and getting the feeling that AoS is and will continue to keep getting better, more polished, better fleshed out, that GW know what they're doing and they're doing it competently. It's taken them a few tries definitely, but I think this is it.
mmzero252 wrote: Looks like anyone complaining that 40k had too many books to carry around is going to have even more issue with Sigmar now. Rulebook, battletome, general's handbook, sorcery book, and all the FAQs after the fact of course.
Technically you don't need the Sorcery book as that's an optional expansion. It might also be that just using the spells normally you might only need the datacards and the book only offers more varied/campaign/scripted use of the spells.
Also chances are the mini-rulebook will include all the core rules - the big rule book is over half lore and fluff and not-needed day to game for gaming.
Also FAQ's are mostly just a few sheets of paper rather than a whole book.
The sorcery book also has a bunch of magical items to use as well as pitched battles. So it's got uses beyond those endless spells. I included the FAQs bit because that always seems to come up when people complain about carrying so many books. "Oh the humanity I have to carry five pieces of paper!"..but it's still there all the time. From a game that used to have free rules and the ability to just carry around your phone for the free warscrolls, AoS 2.0 VERY rapidly became a game where a book back might be a good investment. Even more so if you play multiple armies.
Also to note, that the profile cards are a great and simplifying edition to the game..but they are only for the free profiles you can have on your phone already. They never include the useful information like allegiance abilities, artifacts, spells, prayers, battalions, etc. So you still need the books to reference those rules. Some of those are then also changed in the general's handbook. Now some of those are also in both the sorcery book and the main rulebook. Sure you don't NEED all of that in a casual game, but there's plenty of stores that heavily frown on you not owning the books if you're going to use things from them.
Cheap reference cards would be a really good product for...pretty much everything really. Spells, unit profiles, allegiance abilities, artefacts, with the added benefit that you can just make a "deck" of the ones you'll be using in the battle and nothing else.
Reference cards are perfect for games that require 3+ books and would be a good business initiative too as they are so convenient it would be a bad idea to not buy them.
Well, that's my AoS shopping list sorted. The new core set, Malign Sorcery, the General's Handbook, and the two pushfit kits for Nighthaunts. Maybe the objectives?
Aren73 wrote: In terms of books - it's all pretty much for reference. How much of a GHB are you really using in a game, 4 pages? You'll need your battletome and the rules booklet to look at more regularly, everything else is just a reference should something come up.
It is somewhat of a concern as it can slow a game down, but hopefully they'll release more of those handy profile cards, so that really you only need to get the rules out in case of a query and not for minute to minute use.
@Voss - well it's becoming all quite 40k ish. There is a grand narrative, a sort of high resolution faction goals and global events, that are taking place in a pretty low resolution world where the places and people are more generic. The Old World had a beautifully crafted map that you could enjoy saying "this event is taking place here and here is what the people there are like and this is the history of the place"
AoS however, isn't place driven it is very much character and narrative driven. For all we care it could be taking place in the sugarplum kingdom in candy land, but the events of the nurgle invasions and now Nagash resurgent, all of those help to build a narrative to give your games meaning. The new realm rules also help to give your battles a bit more unique feeling.
I think it will be very difficult to give places meaning in AoS, really the better known places are what, Hammerhal and Shadespire maybe? They'd have to give places important functions, like for example a city keeping a realmgate open or the last stormcast foothold in a specific realm, to give any meaning to fighting over them.
Anyway, sorry that was somewhat of a ramble, I'm just really excited and getting the feeling that AoS is and will continue to keep getting better, more polished, better fleshed out, that GW know what they're doing and they're doing it competently. It's taken them a few tries definitely, but I think this is it.
See, i don't find it character or narrative driven. The only characters of note are god versions of old world characters, largely stripped of their driving (motivational) character traits. To me, AoS is Event driven, and that's hard to connect to. By the time I find out about an event and get around to sort of catching up on it, its time for the next one. I still don't know what 'Firestorm' was, and four hero models wasn't any kind of a inducement to pay attention to malign portents.
For it to be character driven it needs protagonists and antagonists running around real landscapes interacting with each other and normal people. A Felix or Orfeo or Malus or anyone off a giant list, even the random teenage apprentices from various short stories who get in way over their heads.
There is absolutely room to tell stories about a young couple that get entangled in the web of a Tzeentch Cult in Hammerhal, or an expedition to find a legendary treasure in Aqshy, and that's the kind of grounded character story that they need to reinvent the glory days.
End of june is going to be expensive. I'm at least in for the starter, the other night haunt units, and the GHB 2018. I'm also going to try and trade the stormcast for more ghosts but we'll see how that works out.
I don't know if I'll get the starter. I'll be using nighthaunts in my Legion of Blood army but not on their own and I'm not that excited abut their battleline. So I'll probably cherrypick one or two of their units I like. I'm all about those spells though.
As for character driven, I don't know it's a bit of both, because Mannfred, Neferata, Arkhan all pop up and have their own stories, it's a mix, though I can see where some if not most armies are lacking active memorable heroes with meaningful arcs.
In Stormcast.005, they show the contents of the box, including a double-sized, folding warscroll card (I was wondering how they'd fit certain models on that)
Aren73 wrote: In terms of books - it's all pretty much for reference. How much of a GHB are you really using in a game, 4 pages? You'll need your battletome and the rules booklet to look at more regularly, everything else is just a reference should something come up.
It is somewhat of a concern as it can slow a game down, but hopefully they'll release more of those handy profile cards, so that really you only need to get the rules out in case of a query and not for minute to minute use.
@Voss - well it's becoming all quite 40k ish. There is a grand narrative, a sort of high resolution faction goals and global events, that are taking place in a pretty low resolution world where the places and people are more generic. The Old World had a beautifully crafted map that you could enjoy saying "this event is taking place here and here is what the people there are like and this is the history of the place"
AoS however, isn't place driven it is very much character and narrative driven. For all we care it could be taking place in the sugarplum kingdom in candy land, but the events of the nurgle invasions and now Nagash resurgent, all of those help to build a narrative to give your games meaning. The new realm rules also help to give your battles a bit more unique feeling.
I think it will be very difficult to give places meaning in AoS, really the better known places are what, Hammerhal and Shadespire maybe? They'd have to give places important functions, like for example a city keeping a realmgate open or the last stormcast foothold in a specific realm, to give any meaning to fighting over them.
Anyway, sorry that was somewhat of a ramble, I'm just really excited and getting the feeling that AoS is and will continue to keep getting better, more polished, better fleshed out, that GW know what they're doing and they're doing it competently. It's taken them a few tries definitely, but I think this is it.
See, i don't find it character or narrative driven. The only characters of note are god versions of old world characters, largely stripped of their driving (motivational) character traits. To me, AoS is Event driven, and that's hard to connect to. By the time I find out about an event and get around to sort of catching up on it, its time for the next one. I still don't know what 'Firestorm' was, and four hero models wasn't any kind of a inducement to pay attention to malign portents.
For it to be character driven it needs protagonists and antagonists running around real landscapes interacting with each other and normal people. A Felix or Orfeo or Malus or anyone off a giant list, even the random teenage apprentices from various short stories who get in way over their heads.
There is absolutely room to tell stories about a young couple that get entangled in the web of a Tzeentch Cult in Hammerhal, or an expedition to find a legendary treasure in Aqshy, and that's the kind of grounded character story that they need to reinvent the glory days.
Have you read Spear of Shadows - its a great adventure with a rather fine cast (and virtually no stormcast)
Sqorgar wrote: In Stormcast.005, they show the contents of the box, including a double-sized, folding warscroll card (I was wondering how they'd fit certain models on that)
It looks like she's just a generic Stormcast. It was the same with AOS proper, they used a generic Liberator rather than the Lord-Celestant(who was on Dracoth) as key art opposing Khul.
If Soul Wars has you hungry for even MORE of the new Stormcast Eternals and Nighthaunt models – well, rest assured, there’s plenty more cool stuff on the way. On the release weekend, meanwhile, you’ll be able to grab a range of push fit kits to bolster your forces from Soul Wars.
Actually in many cases thats why I love the starter sets of warhammer. The fact that they are monopose and in some cases push-fits means they have more freedom to make cool sculpts, with interesting poses, instead of the multi-plastic kits. (And if you combine both, you end up with more variety, like death guard plague marines)
Thats why I always try to buy all of GW's starters sets, at least once. Is like, all of the infantry grunts are as those monopose plastic HQ's that GW did in the past, as the dark elf sorcerer, etc...
Push fit just means good sculpt engineering. Sadly also means monopose, but push fit makes for a much stronger bond. Plus you can get multiple poses with a bit of trimming and modelling.
Chunkychip wrote: How come the Sequitors come as 8 instead of 10? for some reason this bother me alot.
So they can make you buy the 3 man set they are releasing at the same time. Same for some death units im sure. Unless that's a min squad amount.
I would say think about the first starter set released where there was 3 retrubutors and they sold the pack of 2 guys to make it a full squad but that was when the game was "take whatever no points". They release now that matched play is how they will sell and grow the game so its harder to think they could give you 8 but then have in the gen handbook 2018 the squad is a 10 man. Perhaps its a way to balance the unit? They may be better then the crapo liberators.
Chunkychip wrote: How come the Sequitors come as 8 instead of 10? for some reason this bother me alot.
So they can make you buy the 3 man set they are releasing at the same time. Same for some death units im sure. Unless that's a min squad amount.
I would say think about the first starter set released where there was 3 retrubutors and they sold the pack of 2 guys to make it a full squad but that was when the game was "take whatever no points". They release now that matched play is how they will sell and grow the game so its harder to think they could give you 8 but then have in the gen handbook 2018 the squad is a 10 man. Perhaps its a way to balance the unit? They may be better then the crapo liberators.
Chunkychip wrote: How come the Sequitors come as 8 instead of 10? for some reason this bother me alot.
In fact, the Sequitors come in 2 units :
One with 5 Sequitors with shields, inc. 1 Sequitor-Prime, and another with 3 Sequitors with double-handed weapons, inc. a Sequitor-Prime.
But between the multi part plastic kit (see the "ghostbuster" lantern lady from Warhammer fest) and the easy-to-build kit, I guess we'll be able to create some variations of those units.
Why wouldn't they have ghost boobs? That's just common sense.
Is there only one female Stormcast in the Starter Box? The Lead Casitgator looks like it could be a female but that could just be its angle...
Pretty sure the lead Castigator is one. I think two of the Sequitors are too (the two with the shields facing the camera - I think it was more obvious in the earlier photos)
NinthMusketeer wrote: Alternate champion/weapon options maybe? 8+3 being 11 and all.
That goes in line with how they did the Primaris/Death Guard easy to build kits.
The Primaris one gives you another Sergeant and two generic boltgun toting goons...but all of them have scoped rifles, allowing for someone to say that they're running Stalker Bolt-Rifles if they so choose.
The Plague Marine box gives you another Champion, a Boltgun toting goon, and a Grenade Launcher toting goon. Those 3 plus the 3 in Dark Imperium give you 2 units of 5.
It looks like there are two units of Sequitors in there, as I'm seeing two Primes. One is wielding the two handed whatevers while the other is wielding the shield and the one handed weapon. With there being 8 it makes me wonder what the hell the numbers are meant to be?
NinthMusketeer wrote: Alternate champion/weapon options maybe? 8+3 being 11 and all.
That goes in line with how they did the Primaris/Death Guard easy to build kits.
The Primaris one gives you another Sergeant and two generic boltgun toting goons...but all of them have scoped rifles, allowing for someone to say that they're running Stalker Bolt-Rifles if they so choose.
The Plague Marine box gives you another Champion, a Boltgun toting goon, and a Grenade Launcher toting goon. Those 3 plus the 3 in Dark Imperium give you 2 units of 5.
It looks like there are two units of Sequitors in there, as I'm seeing two Primes. One is wielding the two handed whatevers while the other is wielding the shield and the one handed weapon. With there being 8 it makes me wonder what the hell the numbers are meant to be?
The units seem to have two of each pose so I don’t think the numbers mean anything, other than getting a good variety of viableish units from the limited sprue space.
Great two more female Stormcasts that I didn’t realize.
Damn the weekend of the 23rd and 24th will be sweet. I’ll have my new AOS starter, the new general’s book and I’ll be seeing Jurassic Park 5. I think I’ll bring my Slann and Old Blood with me to the theater.
I like the content of the box, the Stormcasts look a bit different and not as samey as the initial ones (when AOS was released), undead are also really nice. I don't mind modern push fit as they are more like nice single pose models (and I prefer those to multi-part models with oddly cramped poses). There are no big monsters, there seem to be rules for different scales of battle, and a magic expansion. AOS—after a few years—actually has me a bit interested even if I know nothing of the lore/world anymore.
I separated the chainrasps to see how the breakup comes up. Looks like 11 designs 9 of which repeat, and 2 of which are unique. (Forgive MP quality editing)
Suppose it doesn't make much of a difference as they are just skulls with capes and smoke. By swapping out weapons and tombstones one can quickly make all of these feel unique.
Really loving the Nighthaunt stuff. This is gonna get me into AOS finally.
I could easily see nighthaunt becoming the most popular non stormcast army in the game. Which makes me not want to play them, despite liking them quite a bit.
I'm still hoping they get real multi part kits, same with the new stormcast chamber. The push fit models are nice but when you expand it's nice to have a kit you can at least personalize to some degree.
Trivial observation, The AoS teaser seems to use Total War: Warhammer music, this one is High Elf flavoured. I've played so much of it that it's going to be a bit embarrassing, if it's not so.
Hive City Dweller wrote: I separated the chainrasps to see how the breakup comes up. Looks like 11 designs 9 of which repeat, and 2 of which are unique. (Forgive MP quality editing)
Suppose it doesn't make much of a difference as they are just skulls with capes and smoke. By swapping out weapons and tombstones one can quickly make all of these feel unique.
Really loving the Nighthaunt stuff. This is gonna get me into AOS finally.
Wasn't #10 the wizards, so they'll probably just shown only one 11 but will include 2 of them
Thargrim wrote: I could easily see nighthaunt becoming the most popular non stormcast army in the game. Which makes me not want to play them, despite liking them quite a bit.
I'm still hoping they get real multi part kits, same with the new stormcast chamber. The push fit models are nice but when you expand it's nice to have a kit you can at least personalize to some degree.
On Facebook they mentioned, that multipart kits are coming later. I think it's a safe bet to assume they are doing the same as with Dark Imperium. Release starter set, release multi part kits and some easy to build ones.
Knight wrote: Trivial observation, The AoS teaser seems to use Total War: Warhammer music, this one is High Elf flavoured. I've played so much of it that it's going to be a bit embarrassing, if it's not so.
Yeah, they tend to use the music from various Warhammer games. They used a lot from the Warhammer 40000 Space Marine game.
I'm hoping there is an option to give the wraiths with the scythes swords instead, we know that's an option for the unit but the starter set could limit that.
I'm all about the banshees, there is something New Londo about them
Oh my Emperor I am so hyped for this and the coming Nighthaunt releases, seem to be getting a lot of goodies.
Absolutely can't wait to see that undead bride looking creature, amazing design.
From that video though, what creature is the Stormcast riding? Is it just that Gryphon thing? The horns and face resemble a goat to me or am I just seeing things? Hopefully that's a new model, wouldn't mind a goat like mount.
unmercifulconker wrote: Oh my Emperor I am so hyped for this and the coming Nighthaunt releases, seem to be getting a lot of goodies.
Absolutely can't wait to see that undead bride looking creature, amazing design.
From that video though, what creature is the Stormcast riding? Is it just that Gryphon thing? The horns and face resemble a goat to me or am I just seeing things? Hopefully that's a new model, wouldn't mind a goat like mount.
GW doesn't make art without models much anymore, the Nighthaunt things on the opposite side are both models so it's very nearly 100% that the griffon thing will be a model.
I think it will probably be a special character on a chimaera style mount, just based on that the new chamber looks woefully short on new models compared to the Nighthaunts (I doubt it would be 3 named characters vs 0)
I separated the chainrasps to see how the breakup comes up. Looks like 11 designs 9 of which repeat, and 2 of which are unique. (Forgive MP quality editing)
Suppose it doesn't make much of a difference as they are just skulls with capes and smoke. By swapping out weapons and tombstones one can quickly make all of these feel unique.
Really loving the Nighthaunt stuff. This is gonna get me into AOS finally.
Wasn't #10 the wizards, so they'll probably just shown only one 11 but will include 2 of them
#10 appears to be the standard bearer of the unit. The hero you're thinking of looks incredibly similar, but with a slightly different brazier and a much more intricate helmet.
Mr_Rose wrote: Looks like a Demigryph to me. Just with horns for some reason (they could be feather ‘horns’ like a Horned Owl I suppose). Not much goat there.
Looking again, it definitely looks more like a ram, has hooves rather than talons as the Demigryph has. Could make a very nice Dwarf, Beastmen mount with a little converting hopefully. Do love a ram mount.
unmercifulconker wrote: From that video though, what creature is the Stormcast riding? Is it just that Gryphon thing? The horns and face resemble a goat to me or am I just seeing things? Hopefully that's a new model, wouldn't mind a goat like mount.
The face kinda looks like the Stormcast rider on whatever the thing after 0:24 is:
Mr_Rose wrote: Looks like a Demigryph to me. Just with horns for some reason (they could be feather ‘horns’ like a Horned Owl I suppose). Not much goat there.
Looking again, it definitely looks more like a ram, has hooves rather than talons as the Demigryph has. Could make a very nice Dwarf, Beastmen mount with a little converting hopefully. Do love a ram mount.
Did I miss something or are we trying to figure out what the Sigmarine head honchon in the new box is riding?
Because that looks like a gryph-charger to me, which is already available on a couple of Vanguard Sigmarines.
No. It's trying to figure out what the feathered creature the Stormcast is riding in the into video. Looks something Gryphon-like, but probably a new creature all together.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: No. It's trying to figure out what the feathered creature the Stormcast is riding in the into video. Looks something Gryphon-like, but probably a new creature all together.
Are you sure? Because I could see the gryph-charger's head being described as goat like. Not so much the ugly kitty at the 24 second mark (which is new altogether, that's right).
Yeah, that's going to be new, although I bet it won't be completely unrelated to what we have so far in the same way as we have Dracoths and Stardrakes. Gryph-charger's winged big daddy.
changemod wrote: Kinda seems like snapfit sequiturs are useless because they can’t take advantage of that very generous number of heavy weapons.
Actually, there look to be 3 in the main box, and 1 in the collection of 3 snapfits. Getting those together would give you your full allotment of 4, and 1 extra model.
changemod wrote: Kinda seems like snapfit sequiturs are useless because they can’t take advantage of that very generous number of heavy weapons.
Actually, there look to be 3 in the main box, and 1 in the collection of 3 snapfits. Getting those together would give you your full allotment of 4, and 1 extra model.
Well, I’m not sure why I spoke then. I was mistakenly going off this image in the focus article:
changemod wrote: Kinda seems like snapfit sequiturs are useless because they can’t take advantage of that very generous number of heavy weapons.
Actually, there look to be 3 in the main box, and 1 in the collection of 3 snapfits. Getting those together would give you your full allotment of 4, and 1 extra model.
Well, I’m not sure why I spoke then. I was mistakenly going off this image in the focus article:
Remember that there's 8 Sequitors in the Soul Wars box.
4 Sequitors with the Stormsmite Maul and Soulshields, 1 Prime with the Stormsmite Maul and Soulshield(what's in the image you posted).
2 Sequitors with the Stormsmite Greatmauls and 1 Prime with the same armament(not shown here).
It makes me kind of curious as to how exactly the unit sizes are going to work for them in Matched Play.
Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
I really hope they change how the unit sizes work in general. It is annoying that you have to buy units in chunks. There should be minimum and maximum sizes for units and you should be able to take any number of models between them.
I see the Sequitors are continuing the trend of having no reason not to max out the unit upgrades. Not to mention one shield is enough protection for the whole unit.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
"Grotbag Scuttlers" was the name drop back during the Kharadron release and a sky ship of them made a cameo in the Kharadron novel.
Crimson wrote: I really hope they change how the unit sizes work in general. It is annoying that you have to buy units in chunks. There should be minimum and maximum sizes for units and you should be able to take any number of models between them.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.
If thats the case I hope they find a way to make Darkoath more unique. Cause they kind of feel like khorne barbarians without the khorne aspect...so no theme really beyond barbarian....which is kinda eh. If the moonclan character is any indication I expect them to dial up the fungus mutations and wacky aspect of the grots to a significant degree. A lot of the newer factions seem to be taking a theme and turning it up to the extreme.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
Next AOS armies after this summer Nighthaunt and Sacrosanct are Moonclan for this Fall.
Because :
1. The Fungoid Cave-shaman Harbinger (and the grot scuttling from Silver Tower) ;
2. Grot-ish Rumor engines like teeth, blades and mushrooms ;
2. LLV on TGA said so yesterday. Many other posters did but he is the most trustworthy on TGA (100% right about Soul Wars so far).
PREPARE FOR SQUIGS
(Destruction is said to get a bit more love in 2019 ; with a second wave of Ironjawz (probably with a new Battletome) and the release of the brand new Grotbag Scuttlers faction (Grot sky pirates - another good German rumor source said so recently)).
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.
If thats the case I hope they find a way to make Darkoath more unique. Cause they kind of feel like khorne barbarians without the khorne aspect...so no theme really beyond barbarian....which is kinda eh. If the moonclan character is any indication I expect them to dial up the fungus mutations and wacky aspect of the grots to a significant degree. A lot of the newer factions seem to be taking a theme and turning it up to the extreme.
I'd prefer them as more generic barbarians, just to balance out all the wacky over the top weirdness in some other factions. Getting a good balance between the normal and the fantastical is crucial to any good fantasy setting imo.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.
If thats the case I hope they find a way to make Darkoath more unique. Cause they kind of feel like khorne barbarians without the khorne aspect...so no theme really beyond barbarian....which is kinda eh. If the moonclan character is any indication I expect them to dial up the fungus mutations and wacky aspect of the grots to a significant degree. A lot of the newer factions seem to be taking a theme and turning it up to the extreme.
I'd happily take "no theme beyond barbarian". GW could use a couple of ranges that act as the baseline. But that's me.
I'd expect the goblins to go the same route as Daughters of Khaine. We have the extreme of the theme on the character, but fairly basic Night Goblins (that I don't expect to get replaced). Any new units will fall somewhere in the middle to bridge the gap. Not as much shark jumping as Idoneth.
But yeah, I really, really hope the harbingers are the, well, harbingers for their factions as the rumors make out. All I want is a mixed gender Darkoath box. So much I could use that for.
Mysterio wrote: Are Kharadron expected to be more...competitive in AoS 2.0?
Or were reports of their demise in AoS 1.0 greatly exaggerated?
The latter. Keep in mind that "bad" more often than not means "not tournament viable" which despite the use is not the same thing at all! It's only the cream of the crop that does well in tournaments--if an army is tournament viable in the current AoS that means it (or sometimes just certain builds) needs to be nerfed.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.
If thats the case I hope they find a way to make Darkoath more unique. Cause they kind of feel like khorne barbarians without the khorne aspect...so no theme really beyond barbarian....which is kinda eh. If the moonclan character is any indication I expect them to dial up the fungus mutations and wacky aspect of the grots to a significant degree. A lot of the newer factions seem to be taking a theme and turning it up to the extreme.
I'd happily take "no theme beyond barbarian". GW could use a couple of ranges that act as the baseline. But that's me.
I'd expect the goblins to go the same route as Daughters of Khaine. We have the extreme of the theme on the character, but fairly basic Night Goblins (that I don't expect to get replaced). Any new units will fall somewhere in the middle to bridge the gap. Not as much shark jumping as Idoneth.
But yeah, I really, really hope the harbingers are the, well, harbingers for their factions as the rumors make out. All I want is a mixed gender Darkoath box. So much I could use that for.
Well I would LOVE Darkoath but I fear they'll be 2019 and that we'll get Slaanesh first (okay, it's great too).
One of the Moonclan rumors is that there will be full new "baseline" Grots (there is one artwork in Malign Portents of Moonclan Grots with their hoods down).
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.
If thats the case I hope they find a way to make Darkoath more unique. Cause they kind of feel like khorne barbarians without the khorne aspect...so no theme really beyond barbarian....which is kinda eh. If the moonclan character is any indication I expect them to dial up the fungus mutations and wacky aspect of the grots to a significant degree. A lot of the newer factions seem to be taking a theme and turning it up to the extreme.
I'd happily take "no theme beyond barbarian". GW could use a couple of ranges that act as the baseline. But that's me.
I'd expect the goblins to go the same route as Daughters of Khaine. We have the extreme of the theme on the character, but fairly basic Night Goblins (that I don't expect to get replaced). Any new units will fall somewhere in the middle to bridge the gap. Not as much shark jumping as Idoneth.
But yeah, I really, really hope the harbingers are the, well, harbingers for their factions as the rumors make out. All I want is a mixed gender Darkoath box. So much I could use that for.
Well I would LOVE Darkoath but I fear they'll be 2019 and that we'll get Slaanesh first (okay, it's great too).
One of the Moonclan rumors is that there will be full new "baseline" Grots (there is one artwork in Malign Portents of Moonclan Grots with their hoods down).
I won't say no to new Slaanesh models either. The more and the sooner, the better.
Based on what we've seen in the Rumor Engine and various rumors, here is my best guess at the next year:
40k Orks are the next army release, then Space Wolves (including Leman Russ), Genestealers Cults, followed by Moonclan Grots (probably late summer or early fall), then Emperor's Children just before the holidays (based on how Tzeentch and Nurgle were released) with Hosts of Slaanesh coming in February 2019. Supposedly, we're getting a new Xenos faction at some point this year , but I'm not sure where they'll be slotted in.
Considering all the box reveals I'd thought they were going to open pre-orders this weekend; in fact is there anything set for this weekend or is it more knight stuff (since I've kind of been distracted with all the news this week being Sigmar). Unless they are going to have the weekend off (its actually been a heck of al ong time since GW didn't have something new out each WEEK)
Overread wrote: Considering all the box reveals I'd thought they were going to open pre-orders this weekend; in fact is there anything set for this weekend or is it more knight stuff (since I've kind of been distracted with all the news this week being Sigmar). Unless they are going to have the weekend off (its actually been a heck of al ong time since GW didn't have something new out each WEEK)
GW almost always tells us on Sunday what is going to be on pre-order that Saturday via Warhammer Community.
Mysterio wrote: Are Kharadron expected to be more...competitive in AoS 2.0?
Or were reports of their demise in AoS 1.0 greatly exaggerated?
The latter. Keep in mind that "bad" more often than not means "not tournament viable" which despite the use is not the same thing at all! It's only the cream of the crop that does well in tournaments--if an army is tournament viable in the current AoS that means it (or sometimes just certain builds) needs to be nerfed.
Good point(s) - thanks!
I do like the overall look/feel of the Kharadron stuff, so maybe AoS 2.0 will be where I jump in with them.
In others news thread people have posted little snippets of what looks like some sort of pricing sheet. Is it to early for that information or did I miss it earlier in this thread? I have dakka whitelisted on my adblocker, but images on other domains sometimes still get caught.
Chamberlain wrote: In others news thread people have posted little snippets of what looks like some sort of pricing sheet. Is it to early for that information or did I miss it earlier in this thread? I have dakka whitelisted on my adblocker, but images on other domains sometimes still get caught.
We haven't gotten that yet. What happens is that the prices are from the solicits that GW sends independent retailers on the week of release.
rayphoton wrote: The general scuttle is that starter is gonna be 160 and the magic addition is gonna be 80. USD...
$80 is pretty pricey for an expansion they seem pretty interested in making a core component of the new edition. I naively hoped it would be a loss-leader product that they ate some margin on in exchange for getting all/most players to pick one up. $50 was what I was hoping for.
rayphoton wrote: The general scuttle is that starter is gonna be 160 and the magic addition is gonna be 80. USD...
$80 is pretty pricey for an expansion they seem pretty interested in making a core component of the new edition. I naively hoped it would be a loss-leader product that they ate some margin on in exchange for getting all/most players to pick one up. $50 was what I was hoping for.
I think it's worth mentioning that if it includes every single one of the Endless Spells that are in the book, comparing them to the price of the Balewind Vortex solo($15)---it does come close to a loss leader in terms of pricing. Going off a price of $15, it comes out to $195 for just the Endless Spells.
I'd also look at it in terms of this being something that might be considered a "gaming group" purchase rather than every player must own it.
17 individual models (some duplicates I know), some also pretty large, plus spell cards correct? Online discount is closer to $70? Im cool with that. I was picking it up for D&D along with the objective markers, AoS is just an added bonus!
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.
If thats the case I hope they find a way to make Darkoath more unique. Cause they kind of feel like khorne barbarians without the khorne aspect...so no theme really beyond barbarian....which is kinda eh. If the moonclan character is any indication I expect them to dial up the fungus mutations and wacky aspect of the grots to a significant degree. A lot of the newer factions seem to be taking a theme and turning it up to the extreme.
I'd happily take "no theme beyond barbarian". GW could use a couple of ranges that act as the baseline. But that's me.
I'd expect the goblins to go the same route as Daughters of Khaine. We have the extreme of the theme on the character, but fairly basic Night Goblins (that I don't expect to get replaced). Any new units will fall somewhere in the middle to bridge the gap. Not as much shark jumping as Idoneth.
But yeah, I really, really hope the harbingers are the, well, harbingers for their factions as the rumors make out. All I want is a mixed gender Darkoath box. So much I could use that for.
Well I would LOVE Darkoath but I fear they'll be 2019 and that we'll get Slaanesh first (okay, it's great too).
One of the Moonclan rumors is that there will be full new "baseline" Grots (there is one artwork in Malign Portents of Moonclan Grots with their hoods down).
I won't say no to new Slaanesh models either. The more and the sooner, the better.
That seems unavoidable to me. Aside from the daemonettes (including mounts) and chariots, slaanesh basically has nothing , except those really terrible mortal riders based on the old marauders. That doesn't fly.
I'd expect fiends, keeper and themed mortal cultists at minimum. Slaangors too, hopefully. But the mortal units seem necessary to bring them in line with the disciples and bloody blood blooders. Wouldn't say no to a new daemon variety (or two) either. We're well past the days when greater, lesser, beast and mount was acceptable.
Kanluwen wrote: I don't expect Slaangors at this point. They keep mentioning the various Beastmen types but so far we have only gotten Tzaangors.
I think they're planning on releasing them with the Beastmen whenever that happens.
True, they haven't done the other two. But it is a possibility, and a slaanesh release absolutely requires new model releases. The Keeper is an obvious one, as the other greaters are already here, but the other gods have had a major increase in mortal and/or daemon models dedicated to them. Daemonettes and generic filler wouldn't be an acceptable retinue.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.
If thats the case I hope they find a way to make Darkoath more unique. Cause they kind of feel like khorne barbarians without the khorne aspect...so no theme really beyond barbarian....which is kinda eh. If the moonclan character is any indication I expect them to dial up the fungus mutations and wacky aspect of the grots to a significant degree. A lot of the newer factions seem to be taking a theme and turning it up to the extreme.
I'd happily take "no theme beyond barbarian". GW could use a couple of ranges that act as the baseline. But that's me.
I'd expect the goblins to go the same route as Daughters of Khaine. We have the extreme of the theme on the character, but fairly basic Night Goblins (that I don't expect to get replaced). Any new units will fall somewhere in the middle to bridge the gap. Not as much shark jumping as Idoneth.
But yeah, I really, really hope the harbingers are the, well, harbingers for their factions as the rumors make out. All I want is a mixed gender Darkoath box. So much I could use that for.
Well I would LOVE Darkoath but I fear they'll be 2019 and that we'll get Slaanesh first (okay, it's great too).
One of the Moonclan rumors is that there will be full new "baseline" Grots (there is one artwork in Malign Portents of Moonclan Grots with their hoods down).
I won't say no to new Slaanesh models either. The more and the sooner, the better.
That seems unavoidable to me. Aside from the daemonettes (including mounts) and chariots, slaanesh basically has nothing , except those really terrible mortal riders based on the old marauders. That doesn't fly.
I'd expect fiends, keeper and themed mortal cultists at minimum. Slaangors too, hopefully. But the mortal units seem necessary to bring them in line with the disciples and bloody blood blooders. Wouldn't say no to a new daemon variety (or two) either. We're well past the days when greater, lesser, beast and mount was acceptable.
Khorne and Nurgle also didn't get any new daemon varieties, so I would not expect anything for Slaanesh either (Khorne did not even get a beast actually). Tzeentch is the only one with multiple daemons (three varieties of horror, flamers and screamers). For a Slaanesh release I think they will just update the Greater Daemon and beast sculpt, probably some (new) characters as well. It think the release would be mostly focusing on mortal followers rather than daemons, in line with Khorne and Nurgle.
Well after all these years anything Slaanesh would be fantastic whatever it is!
What I would like would be a kit providing more "normal" demonette faces.
Oh and actually snirking ones would be great.
I can't stand the "screaming banshees" types most of them have.
Those serviceable heads are basically variation o a few CAD nasic design, more variety
would be cool in my book.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.
If thats the case I hope they find a way to make Darkoath more unique. Cause they kind of feel like khorne barbarians without the khorne aspect...so no theme really beyond barbarian....which is kinda eh. If the moonclan character is any indication I expect them to dial up the fungus mutations and wacky aspect of the grots to a significant degree. A lot of the newer factions seem to be taking a theme and turning it up to the extreme.
I'd happily take "no theme beyond barbarian". GW could use a couple of ranges that act as the baseline. But that's me.
I'd expect the goblins to go the same route as Daughters of Khaine. We have the extreme of the theme on the character, but fairly basic Night Goblins (that I don't expect to get replaced). Any new units will fall somewhere in the middle to bridge the gap. Not as much shark jumping as Idoneth.
But yeah, I really, really hope the harbingers are the, well, harbingers for their factions as the rumors make out. All I want is a mixed gender Darkoath box. So much I could use that for.
Well I would LOVE Darkoath but I fear they'll be 2019 and that we'll get Slaanesh first (okay, it's great too).
One of the Moonclan rumors is that there will be full new "baseline" Grots (there is one artwork in Malign Portents of Moonclan Grots with their hoods down).
I won't say no to new Slaanesh models either. The more and the sooner, the better.
That seems unavoidable to me. Aside from the daemonettes (including mounts) and chariots, slaanesh basically has nothing , except those really terrible mortal riders based on the old marauders. That doesn't fly.
I'd expect fiends, keeper and themed mortal cultists at minimum. Slaangors too, hopefully. But the mortal units seem necessary to bring them in line with the disciples and bloody blood blooders. Wouldn't say no to a new daemon variety (or two) either. We're well past the days when greater, lesser, beast and mount was acceptable.
Khorne and Nurgle also didn't get any new daemon varieties, so I would not expect anything for Slaanesh either (Khorne did not even get a beast actually). Tzeentch is the only one with multiple daemons (three varieties of horror, flamers and screamers). For a Slaanesh release I think they will just update the Greater Daemon and beast sculpt, probably some (new) characters as well. It think the release would be mostly focusing on mortal followers rather than daemons, in line with Khorne and Nurgle.
I'd be happy with that. Even if Slaaneshi daemons don't have much in the way of variety, Slaaneshi mortals are in even greater need of something, anything, that gives them an identity. Plus that could add models that could be converted to 40k for more cultist variety there, too. If GW doesn't outright ports them like Tzaangors.
I just hope they do a better sculpting job on the new models than the current daemons. Seekers are possibly the least dynamic and graceful cavalry unit GW ever made. And that's just sad.
rayphoton wrote: The general scuttle is that starter is gonna be 160 and the magic addition is gonna be 80. USD...
$80 is pretty pricey for an expansion they seem pretty interested in making a core component of the new edition. I naively hoped it would be a loss-leader product that they ate some margin on in exchange for getting all/most players to pick one up. $50 was what I was hoping for.
I think it's worth mentioning that if it includes every single one of the Endless Spells that are in the book, comparing them to the price of the Balewind Vortex solo($15)---it does come close to a loss leader in terms of pricing. Going off a price of $15, it comes out to $195 for just the Endless Spells.
I'd also look at it in terms of this being something that might be considered a "gaming group" purchase rather than every player must own it.
That's not a very good value comparison. The endless spells vary wildly in size and complexity. Some look to be only one piece, others could be 4+ pieces. My guess is probably two large sprues.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.
If thats the case I hope they find a way to make Darkoath more unique. Cause they kind of feel like khorne barbarians without the khorne aspect...so no theme really beyond barbarian....which is kinda eh. If the moonclan character is any indication I expect them to dial up the fungus mutations and wacky aspect of the grots to a significant degree. A lot of the newer factions seem to be taking a theme and turning it up to the extreme.
I'd happily take "no theme beyond barbarian". GW could use a couple of ranges that act as the baseline. But that's me.
I'd expect the goblins to go the same route as Daughters of Khaine. We have the extreme of the theme on the character, but fairly basic Night Goblins (that I don't expect to get replaced). Any new units will fall somewhere in the middle to bridge the gap. Not as much shark jumping as Idoneth.
But yeah, I really, really hope the harbingers are the, well, harbingers for their factions as the rumors make out. All I want is a mixed gender Darkoath box. So much I could use that for.
Well I would LOVE Darkoath but I fear they'll be 2019 and that we'll get Slaanesh first (okay, it's great too).
One of the Moonclan rumors is that there will be full new "baseline" Grots (there is one artwork in Malign Portents of Moonclan Grots with their hoods down).
I won't say no to new Slaanesh models either. The more and the sooner, the better.
That seems unavoidable to me. Aside from the daemonettes (including mounts) and chariots, slaanesh basically has nothing , except those really terrible mortal riders based on the old marauders. That doesn't fly.
I'd expect fiends, keeper and themed mortal cultists at minimum. Slaangors too, hopefully. But the mortal units seem necessary to bring them in line with the disciples and bloody blood blooders. Wouldn't say no to a new daemon variety (or two) either. We're well past the days when greater, lesser, beast and mount was acceptable.
I would be disappointed to see another marked beastman for Slaanesh. I prefer that each god has a unique feel and thus far, marked beastmen is Tzeentch's thing. It's cool if we see Pestigor, Khorngors, and Slaangors when the Brayherds get expanded, but for now, I'd rather see Slaaneshi humans with the punk rock aesthetic of the Hellstriders, or who follow the Greek theme of the Slaanesh Lord on Daemonic Mount.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.
If thats the case I hope they find a way to make Darkoath more unique. Cause they kind of feel like khorne barbarians without the khorne aspect...so no theme really beyond barbarian....which is kinda eh. If the moonclan character is any indication I expect them to dial up the fungus mutations and wacky aspect of the grots to a significant degree. A lot of the newer factions seem to be taking a theme and turning it up to the extreme.
I'd happily take "no theme beyond barbarian". GW could use a couple of ranges that act as the baseline. But that's me.
I'd expect the goblins to go the same route as Daughters of Khaine. We have the extreme of the theme on the character, but fairly basic Night Goblins (that I don't expect to get replaced). Any new units will fall somewhere in the middle to bridge the gap. Not as much shark jumping as Idoneth.
But yeah, I really, really hope the harbingers are the, well, harbingers for their factions as the rumors make out. All I want is a mixed gender Darkoath box. So much I could use that for.
Well I would LOVE Darkoath but I fear they'll be 2019 and that we'll get Slaanesh first (okay, it's great too).
One of the Moonclan rumors is that there will be full new "baseline" Grots (there is one artwork in Malign Portents of Moonclan Grots with their hoods down).
I won't say no to new Slaanesh models either. The more and the sooner, the better.
That seems unavoidable to me. Aside from the daemonettes (including mounts) and chariots, slaanesh basically has nothing , except those really terrible mortal riders based on the old marauders. That doesn't fly.
I'd expect fiends, keeper and themed mortal cultists at minimum. Slaangors too, hopefully. But the mortal units seem necessary to bring them in line with the disciples and bloody blood blooders. Wouldn't say no to a new daemon variety (or two) either. We're well past the days when greater, lesser, beast and mount was acceptable.
I would be disappointed to see another marked beastman for Slaanesh. I prefer that each god has a unique feel and thus far, marked beastmen is Tzeentch's thing. It's cool if we see Pestigor, Khorngors, and Slaangors when the Brayherds get expanded, but for now, I'd rather see Slaaneshi humans with the punk rock aesthetic of the Hellstriders, or who follow the Greek theme of the Slaanesh Lord on Daemonic Mount.
Considering the bull headed Keeper of Secrets, yeah, I think Slaaneshi beastmen are reasonable well covered by the generic models for now (not that I wouldn't take any if GW decided otherwise). Human followers are in greater need as far as I'm concerned. I always liked the Greek helmets Hellstriders are sporting. They give a sleeker look that suits Slaanesh and ties in nicely with the elves as well, now more than ever (considering how "Greek style" is often brought up when talking about Daughters of Khaine). GW should probably take the chance the blank slate of AoS offers to completely divorce new Slaaneshi models from Norsca. Let Khorne keep his viking butchers and give Slaanesh distinct aesthetics better suited to its needs.
Agreed. Like I said, I would prefer each Chaos god's mortal forces to have a unique look and feel. Thus far, they've done a good job of that. I wouldn't hate Slaangors, but I feel like it'd make Slaanesh feel too close to Tzeentch.
Slaanesh daemons are not horribly lacking, like them or not, the daemonettes are new enough and come on seekers and 3 chariot variations. An addition would be welcome, but the 2 resculpts are enough.
Hive City Dweller wrote: Not to sideline the discussion too much, but are there any solid rumors about Goblin/Grot releases in AoS?
I know it's been talked about, and we have several rumor engine pics that look like spore clouds, squigs and goblin blades, but search as I much I can't find if any reliable sources have confirmed that army.
If there are any grots coming they will probably be moonclan, as they would have been designed alongside the malign portents character. I had heard rumors about them coming in the fall, but it sounded almost like wishlisting to me, so i'll believe it when I see it for now.
The malign portents characters are reflective of the redo of the faction they represent. Darkoath and Moonclan are to come, Nighthaunt and Ordinatus we are seeing in the new set.
If thats the case I hope they find a way to make Darkoath more unique. Cause they kind of feel like khorne barbarians without the khorne aspect...so no theme really beyond barbarian....which is kinda eh. If the moonclan character is any indication I expect them to dial up the fungus mutations and wacky aspect of the grots to a significant degree. A lot of the newer factions seem to be taking a theme and turning it up to the extreme.
I'd happily take "no theme beyond barbarian". GW could use a couple of ranges that act as the baseline. But that's me.
I'd expect the goblins to go the same route as Daughters of Khaine. We have the extreme of the theme on the character, but fairly basic Night Goblins (that I don't expect to get replaced). Any new units will fall somewhere in the middle to bridge the gap. Not as much shark jumping as Idoneth.
But yeah, I really, really hope the harbingers are the, well, harbingers for their factions as the rumors make out. All I want is a mixed gender Darkoath box. So much I could use that for.
Well I would LOVE Darkoath but I fear they'll be 2019 and that we'll get Slaanesh first (okay, it's great too).
One of the Moonclan rumors is that there will be full new "baseline" Grots (there is one artwork in Malign Portents of Moonclan Grots with their hoods down).
I won't say no to new Slaanesh models either. The more and the sooner, the better.
That seems unavoidable to me. Aside from the daemonettes (including mounts) and chariots, slaanesh basically has nothing , except those really terrible mortal riders based on the old marauders. That doesn't fly.
I'd expect fiends, keeper and themed mortal cultists at minimum. Slaangors too, hopefully. But the mortal units seem necessary to bring them in line with the disciples and bloody blood blooders. Wouldn't say no to a new daemon variety (or two) either. We're well past the days when greater, lesser, beast and mount was acceptable.
Khorne and Nurgle also didn't get any new daemon varieties, so I would not expect anything for Slaanesh either (Khorne did not even get a beast actually). Tzeentch is the only one with multiple daemons (three varieties of horror, flamers and screamers). For a Slaanesh release I think they will just update the Greater Daemon and beast sculpt, probably some (new) characters as well. It think the release would be mostly focusing on mortal followers rather than daemons, in line with Khorne and Nurgle.
Eh. As a point of reference, the other Daemon lines have gotten a lot over the years, particularly Nurgle. The flies aren't that old and not trapped in old Realm of Chaos cycle Slaanesh is still stuck with. Plus he's got both his old beasties and a pile of plastic heroes at this point. Plus the putrid blight kings and their variants. And even more nurglish daemon looking things seem to be coming in the rogue trader box.
Grante, Khorne only got the cannon and throne, but that is a fairly big change (ranged artillery!), especially alongside bloodcrushers and the full mortal faction that was half the first year of AoS releases ). Sadly they never broke the flesh hound out of the shadespire box, but they can clearly do so whenever they like with some variations.
Tzeentch pretty much ran riot with the full combined faction treatment, and ended up with a second beast and a third lesser form as well, plus a couple options for heroes on top.
That's what I'm comparing the daemonettes, steeds (which are basically just daemonettes but 'even more faster') and chariots to. A real Slaanesh faction needs to be much more than just a Keeper and some stuff. They're basically functioning like its still 1989, regardless of Voltron the lawn mower chariot.
rayphoton wrote: The general scuttle is that starter is gonna be 160 and the magic addition is gonna be 80. USD...
$80 is pretty pricey for an expansion they seem pretty interested in making a core component of the new edition. I naively hoped it would be a loss-leader product that they ate some margin on in exchange for getting all/most players to pick one up. $50 was what I was hoping for.
I think it's worth mentioning that if it includes every single one of the Endless Spells that are in the book, comparing them to the price of the Balewind Vortex solo($15)---it does come close to a loss leader in terms of pricing. Going off a price of $15, it comes out to $195 for just the Endless Spells.
I'd also look at it in terms of this being something that might be considered a "gaming group" purchase rather than every player must own it.
That's not a very good value comparison. The endless spells vary wildly in size and complexity. Some look to be only one piece, others could be 4+ pieces. My guess is probably two large sprues.
It's as good of a value comparison as you're going to get sadly. The Magewrath Throne, the Balewind Vortex, and all the other Arcane Fulcrums were priced out individually at $15.
And what I'm saying is that both of those were significantly large than any individual spell, so saying each spell is worth the same as those isn't anywhere close to accurate.
EnTyme wrote: And what I'm saying is that both of those were significantly large than any individual spell, so saying each spell is worth the same as those isn't anywhere close to accurate.
They're not as large as you might think, and I think you're underestimating the size of the Endless Spells as well.
The Jaws and Sun look to be on Onager sized bases, Gravetide and Palisade look to not have a 'base' but rather they have part of them flattened to serve as a kind of base, Pendulum and Emerald Swarm look to be on 60x35mm ovals, and the rest look to be on 32mm or 40mm bases.
EnTyme wrote: And what I'm saying is that both of those were significantly large than any individual spell, so saying each spell is worth the same as those isn't anywhere close to accurate.
They're not as large as you might think, and I think you're underestimating the size of the Endless Spells as well.
The Jaws and Sun look to be on Onager sized bases, Gravetide and Palisade look to not have a 'base' but rather they have part of them flattened to serve as a kind of base, Pendulum and Emerald Swarm look to be on 60x35mm ovals, and the rest look to be on 32mm or 40mm bases.
I own a Balewind Vortex, and I've used the throne at my FLGS. You can look at the bases the Endless Spells are on and estimate the size pretty closely. From what I can tell, these will fit on 2-3 large sprues, so the kit is roughly the size of most terrain kits. In either case, there is no way anyone is going to look at these models and say the kit is worth the price of Imperial Knight: Renegade even counting the spell cards and book.
EnTyme wrote: And what I'm saying is that both of those were significantly large than any individual spell, so saying each spell is worth the same as those isn't anywhere close to accurate.
They're not as large as you might think, and I think you're underestimating the size of the Endless Spells as well.
The Jaws and Sun look to be on Onager sized bases, Gravetide and Palisade look to not have a 'base' but rather they have part of them flattened to serve as a kind of base, Pendulum and Emerald Swarm look to be on 60x35mm ovals, and the rest look to be on 32mm or 40mm bases.
I own a Balewind Vortex, and I've used the throne at my FLGS. You can look at the bases the Endless Spells are on and estimate the size pretty closely. From what I can tell, these will fit on 2-3 large sprues, so the kit is roughly the size of most terrain kits. In either case, there is no way anyone is going to look at these models and say the kit is worth the price of Imperial Knight: Renegade even counting the spell cards and book.
Luckily neither does GW, but pretty much anything would look like a very bad value proposition next to Renegade anyway.
I LIKE the Hellstriders. Lol. I’m hoping we’ll also get our first named Daemon PRINCE (not greater Daemon) in the form of Azazel, since he has a pre-existing history/hatred with sigmar from the old world. GW seems to be in a nostalgic mood for old characters lately, so fingers crossed!
Luckily neither does GW, but pretty much anything would look like a very bad value proposition next to Renegade anyway.
Oh, I think the Endless Spells look like a great value, I just don't get why Kan wants to base that value on multiplying the number of (wildly varying) models in the kit by the value of two other models that are only comparable in size to probably 3-4 of the models in the actual kit. My point is that the comparison doesn't make sense to me.
Luckily neither does GW, but pretty much anything would look like a very bad value proposition next to Renegade anyway.
Oh, I think the Endless Spells look like a great value, I just don't get why Kan wants to base that value on multiplying the number of (wildly varying) models in the kit by the value of two other models that are only comparable in size to probably 3-4 of the models in the actual kit. My point is that the comparison doesn't make sense to me.
The rumored price point for the Malign Sorcery kit is $80.
I based the price I used for the multiplication for off of the specific price point that GW seemingly feels comfortable at selling an Endless Spell at, using the Balewind Vortex as the guidepost. They feel that the Balewind Vortex is worth the same as the Magewrath Throne or the other two items that they used to sell at $15.
We're seeing them do weird things with terrain--did you imagine the Webway Portal would be $40? The new Knight piece? The Shipwreck? That seems to be what they're considering these Endless Spells to be.
So yeah, pardon me for trying to make an educated guess as to the pricing.
Galas wrote: I don't know what to think about the Endless Spells. Yeah, they look cool, but even more ways to create mortal wounds... meh.
The spells do a lot more than just damage. One blocks ranged attacks, One heals models, the mirrors basically change the point a spell is being cast from, etc. I think the entire concept is really cool, and I can't wait to try them out! I'll be preordering the spells, rulebook, and GHB for sure!
Also, spells were dishing out mortal wounds anyways and I think its more about giving access to non-battletome/non-lore armies. Tzeentch will probably still deal a ton more using their own lores.
Luckily neither does GW, but pretty much anything would look like a very bad value proposition next to Renegade anyway.
Oh, I think the Endless Spells look like a great value, I just don't get why Kan wants to base that value on multiplying the number of (wildly varying) models in the kit by the value of two other models that are only comparable in size to probably 3-4 of the models in the actual kit. My point is that the comparison doesn't make sense to me.
The rumored price point for the Malign Sorcery kit is $80.
I based the price I used for the multiplication for off of the specific price point that GW seemingly feels comfortable at selling an Endless Spell at, using the Balewind Vortex as the guidepost. They feel that the Balewind Vortex is worth the same as the Magewrath Throne or the other two items that they used to sell at $15.
We're seeing them do weird things with terrain--did you imagine the Webway Portal would be $40? The new Knight piece? The Shipwreck? That seems to be what they're considering these Endless Spells to be.
So yeah, pardon me for trying to make an educated guess as to the pricing.
I think the $80 rumor is probably pretty accurate (and a good value). I disagree with your assessment that GW is selling a $195 kit for $80. They are selling an $80 kit for $80. Saying that each spell model is worth the same as a Balewind Vortex because they're both Endless Spells is like saying a Grot Shaman is worth the same as a Megaboss because they're both Heroes. The kits are vastly different.
The endless spells look a hell of a lot better and have a hell of a lot more detail than those terrain kits. As for me I was expecting $75 for just the spells & their warscrolls so I'm happy. It seems a fair price point to me.
Glad to see the Ogres marching into the updated rules of the future... just wish I still had my army of them to keep me company.
Bar none my favorite army in terms of customization and modularity. If kits are repacked at an attractive price, I may have to start up again... maybe with normal flesh colors this time even.
In my eyes, a Slaaneshi mortal army should look like a cross between Kingdom Death figures and over designed MMORPG characters. Excessive and decadent armor, fabulous (and tainted) looking mortals of questionable gender... or at least the elite units can be like that.
Let the unwashed masses be the typical grimdark hobos
So after getting around to the AoS podcasts, I have to say I am really not concerned with free summoning anymore. They seem to be very concious about making sure summoning was not overpowered which makes me feel that the potential exploitive elements we see now will be errata'd at or after 2nd ed launch.
Also if I wasn't excited for the narrative angle before I would be after hearing them talk about it.
NinthMusketeer wrote: So after getting around to the AoS podcasts, I have to say I am really not concerned with free summoning anymore. They seem to be very concious about making sure summoning was not overpowered which makes me feel that the potential exploitive elements we see now will be errata'd at or after 2nd ed launch.
Also if I wasn't excited for the narrative angle before I would be after hearing them talk about it.
Yeah, watching those I also felt a little less worried about the summoning things, as it seems like they actually really looked at that stuff instead of just going all Oprah and giving everybody free daemons.
And I'm super excited about the narrative stuff, actually. We usually play Matched Play, but my group isn't full of tryhards, and we do stuff for more fun than anything, and the Endless Spells are gonna be a right blast, I think.
You fellas care to say how free summoning will work (and why you think its gonna be okay) based on those podcasts? Your insight is much appreciated.
Before points came in to AoS, the only thing I was ever worried about was summoning. Our cheesiest 40k demon player brought his army and tried out AoS. He summoned a bunch of stuff and crushed me only to say that it was a broken thing to be able to do.
privateer4hire wrote: You fellas care to say how free summoning will work (and why you think its gonna be okay) based on those podcasts? Your insight is much appreciated.
Before points came in to AoS, the only thing I was ever worried about was summoning. Our cheesiest 40k demon player brought his army and tried out AoS. He summoned a bunch of stuff and crushed me only to say that it was a broken thing to be able to do.
Many armies have an opportunity cost to do summoning. Most armies' summoning will be able to be limited or prevented by the other player. Some of the most feared excesses like the flesh Eater units growing beyond starting size have been curbed.
On top of that points will be adjusted somewhat to account for the power that summoning provides.
It seems likely that summoning armies will start with slightly smaller armies than non summoning armies, with the potential to get quite a bit larger as the game progresses.
It should make for interesting games.
privateer4hire wrote: You fellas care to say how free summoning will work (and why you think its gonna be okay) based on those podcasts? Your insight is much appreciated.
Before points came in to AoS, the only thing I was ever worried about was summoning. Our cheesiest 40k demon player brought his army and tried out AoS. He summoned a bunch of stuff and crushed me only to say that it was a broken thing to be able to do.
Rather than being flat spells each army will have a summoning mechanic in their allegiance, something we've already seen previewed. What alleviated my concern was that when talking about these they went out of their way to mention how it was important not to make summoning too easy such that it was overpowered. There are several points already in existence where I see free summoning as problematic (it's really not difficult to plop down an Exalted GUO on round 4 for example, which even that late in the game has no business being free) but since GW is very obviously aware of summoning as a potential problem it gives me confidence they will address those exploits, or are at least likely to.
For Tzeentch they said that they will get a point for every spell that casts and is not unbound--from either side. These points are then spent to summon with a LoC costing 36. Blood tithe for Khorne will go from the current '8 summons anything' to a specific chart that says how much each thing costs in tithe to summon, with a Bloodthirster eing 16.
NinthMusketeer wrote: So after getting around to the AoS podcasts, I have to say I am really not concerned with free summoning anymore. They seem to be very concious about making sure summoning was not overpowered which makes me feel that the potential exploitive elements we see now will be errata'd at or after 2nd ed launch.
Also if I wasn't excited for the narrative angle before I would be after hearing them talk about it.
Speaking of erratas, AoS is due for one of their big twice-a-year FAQs in July. I wonder if it will be late like the 40KFAQ was (p.s., I asked this question on the Age of Sigmar Facebook page, so let's see if I get an answer).
NinthMusketeer wrote: So after getting around to the AoS podcasts, I have to say I am really not concerned with free summoning anymore. They seem to be very concious about making sure summoning was not overpowered which makes me feel that the potential exploitive elements we see now will be errata'd at or after 2nd ed launch.
Also if I wasn't excited for the narrative angle before I would be after hearing them talk about it.
Speaking of erratas, AoS is due for one of their big twice-a-year FAQs in July. I wonder if it will be late like the 40KFAQ was (p.s., I asked this question on the Age of Sigmar Facebook page, so let's see if I get an answer).
Is it wrong that I hope the Idoneth will get errataed to have the Ritual of Rousing be able to summon an Eidolon OR heal/buff one?
I mean, look at the Warscroll for the thing. Read the product info. It even says they're "summoned" into being.
Nagash, as self-appointed God of Death and Grand Necromancer, lays eventual claim to every single soul in the Mortal Realms as his by right – an arrangement that, during the Age of Myth, was agreed upon by the other gods in Sigmar’s pantheon.
privateer4hire wrote: You fellas care to say how free summoning will work (and why you think its gonna be okay) based on those podcasts? Your insight is much appreciated.
Before points came in to AoS, the only thing I was ever worried about was summoning. Our cheesiest 40k demon player brought his army and tried out AoS. He summoned a bunch of stuff and crushed me only to say that it was a broken thing to be able to do.
Many armies have an opportunity cost to do summoning. Most armies' summoning will be able to be limited or prevented by the other player. Some of the most feared excesses like the flesh Eater units growing beyond starting size have been curbed.
On top of that points will be adjusted somewhat to account for the power that summoning provides.
It seems likely that summoning armies will start with slightly smaller armies than non summoning armies, with the potential to get quite a bit larger as the game progresses.
It should make for interesting games.
Mostly seems frustrating to me 'play the mission, but also play this minigame or my army gets twice as big as yours'
shinros wrote: Not sure if anyone has posted this yet. The article talks about souls, I recall there was a topic about this in the general AOS section.
Nagash, as self-appointed God of Death and Grand Necromancer, lays eventual claim to every single soul in the Mortal Realms as his by right – an arrangement that, during the Age of Myth, was agreed upon by the other gods in Sigmar’s pantheon.
That's actually old lore. But interesting, definitely. Nagash is not the evil bad guy he seems.
privateer4hire wrote: You fellas care to say how free summoning will work (and why you think its gonna be okay) based on those podcasts? Your insight is much appreciated.
Before points came in to AoS, the only thing I was ever worried about was summoning. Our cheesiest 40k demon player brought his army and tried out AoS. He summoned a bunch of stuff and crushed me only to say that it was a broken thing to be able to do.
Many armies have an opportunity cost to do summoning. Most armies' summoning will be able to be limited or prevented by the other player. Some of the most feared excesses like the flesh Eater units growing beyond starting size have been curbed.
On top of that points will be adjusted somewhat to account for the power that summoning provides.
It seems likely that summoning armies will start with slightly smaller armies than non summoning armies, with the potential to get quite a bit larger as the game progresses.
It should make for interesting games.
Mostly seems frustrating to me 'play the mission, but also play this minigame or my army gets twice as big as yours'
It's just resource management. If I recall, some people actually like resource management mechanics in games, they find them fun.
I for one like how it's looking, and would really like more info on the Seraphon mechanic. As of now, we only have the core of it, and not the whole list of possible summons. It is looking very tool-box like, something very useful for an army with lots of units.
So the boxed set is going to come with those 12 gorgeous colored dice?
I don't play AOS, nor am I going to start playing AOS. Modern GW rules have nothing that "clicks" with me, unless they can get BFG out and the rules are fairly close to the last set. I'll cherry pick models that work in my 6th Ed. WFB armies and call it a day, but if I can finagle three or six sets of those dice from starter sets purchased locally, I'll be one happy clam. Don't know why, but that blue looks amazing to me.
NinthMusketeer wrote: There are several points already in existence where I see free summoning as problematic (it's really not difficult to plop down an Exalted GUO on round 4 for example, which even that late in the game has no business being free) but since GW is very obviously aware of summoning as a potential problem it gives me confidence they will address those exploits, or are at least likely to.
It is remarkable how we celebrate GW finally listening and interacting with customers, when really they just abuse this to write even more garbage untested rules and fix it with errata based on public outcry.
NinthMusketeer wrote: There are several points already in existence where I see free summoning as problematic (it's really not difficult to plop down an Exalted GUO on round 4 for example, which even that late in the game has no business being free) but since GW is very obviously aware of summoning as a potential problem it gives me confidence they will address those exploits, or are at least likely to.
It is remarkable how we celebrate GW finally listening and interacting with customers, when really they just abuse this to write even more garbage untested rules and fix it with errata based on public outcry.
WE are celebrating a company that is trying new things with the resolve to do their best to make those decisions work for as many people as possible.
YOU are the one carrying around pockets full of razors there, supreme lord of edges.
You'd have to have some kind of crazy bias to believe that GW has abused anybody in the last couple of years.
You want to see abuse, go play X-wing.
WE are celebrating a company that is trying new things with the resolve to do their best to make those decisions work for as many people as possible.
YOU are the one carrying around pockets full of razors there, supreme lord of edges.
You'd have to have some kind of crazy bias to believe that GW has abused anybody in the last couple of years.
I haven't seen anything yet, though admittedly I don't really follow AOS that closely, but has anyone seen if GW is going to be doing anything with Skirmish in the new Core Book or the new General's Handbook (I heard the original book was very underwhelming)? I really don't have any desire to get into another big army type game, but I do love a lot of the AOS models, enjoy the simplicity of the rules design, and would love to have an excuse to throw some dice around with a couple of my buddy who are likewise interested.
Sabotage! wrote: I haven't seen anything yet, though admittedly I don't really follow AOS that closely, but has anyone seen if GW is going to be doing anything with Skirmish in the new Core Book or the new General's Handbook (I heard the original book was very underwhelming)? I really don't have any desire to get into another big army type game, but I do love a lot of the AOS models, enjoy the simplicity of the rules design, and would love to have an excuse to throw some dice around with a couple of my buddy who are likewise interested.
The Magic book is going to have a Skirmish section where you can play skirmish on the edge of the realms, as spell hunters trying to tame the wild magic on the fringes of the world.
If you want better Skirmish rules though I would suggest checking http://www.tga.community/ where there are a couple of fan-made skirmish systems that are more in-depth than the GW one.
ph34r wrote: I'm with Nagash on this one. If the whole bargain was for him to help vs Chaos, taking souls away from him permanently seems like a back-stabby move.
To be fair... he was struck down and gone for a bunch of hundred years... During that time the terms needed to change.
I do like the War of Souls and the using souls as a resource.
ph34r wrote: I'm with Nagash on this one. If the whole bargain was for him to help vs Chaos, taking souls away from him permanently seems like a back-stabby move.
The bargain involved helping against chaos, a bargain which Nagash broke when he retreated from the defense of All-Points.
ph34r wrote: I'm with Nagash on this one. If the whole bargain was for him to help vs Chaos, taking souls away from him permanently seems like a back-stabby move.
How is keeping some souls around a bit longer so that they could fight chaos instead of being locked up somewhere pointlessly not fighting chaos?
Seriously, Nagash just looks like a whining jerk who would rather put blinkers on and single-mindlessly fight the anti-chaos coalition over a handful of souls he was ""denied"" ignoring the fact chaos devours them by a bucketful. How the hell is small, elite force of stormcast in any reasonable way a bigger issue than whole realms occupied by chaos?
This is also my issue with the reforging story in the malign portents - somehow, author managed to both ruin the stormcast mystique and shown Nagash as dumb, one track jerk. Before, stormcast were tragic - heroes who were selflessly fighting for the greater good, losing bits of themselves due to Nagash machinations. Ok, that worked, and made Nagash look sinister, but not that petty.
Now, however, it turns out the stormcast who lose bits of memories are morons and shirkers who fail to see the big picture (like the one who saw zombies made out of his family, and wanted to hug them, ignoring the fact these empty shells wearing his family corpses had literally nothing to do with them anymore, which was amply demonstrated when they torn him to ribbons) and the bits they remove are made out of pure stupidium. If a soul would endanger his companions and break ranks dying pointlessly because Nagash/chaos/whatever killed their family and wear the remains as clothing Necron-style, instead, of you know, beating them back so that others won't suffer the same fate, then good riddance, delete the idiot bits in next reforging even if that does make them more automaton-like, because wanting to hug zombies doesn't place anywhere near even most remote definition of reasonable even when eternal enslavement and torture in hell is not the thing on the line.
I'd honestly prefer the whole 'I see family among zombies' was just evil, malignant illusion designed to weaken fighting spirit, because "evil necromancer wiped his butt with my family and now I want to join them after seeing my daddy's corpse dance on strings of some foul magic" ranks among the DUMBEST motivations of anything I have ever read in fantasy.
The story also conversely implies the heroes who have no issues with following Sigmar and in fact do agree with him, should endure reforging relatively intact in painless manner, making the 'damaged' ones no longer tragic, just stupid, and Nagash with his new anti-sigmarine (and not anti-daemon, like someone less spiteful and short-sighted would produce) spookies look so petty it honestly ruins the whole ghost faction to me. I can excuse a lot, being murderous, backstabbing, even traitor, but evil pettiness of the Dastardly & Muttley kind is rather grating
ph34r wrote: I'm with Nagash on this one. If the whole bargain was for him to help vs Chaos, taking souls away from him permanently seems like a back-stabby move.
How is keeping some souls around a bit longer so that they could fight chaos instead of being locked up somewhere pointlessly not fighting chaos?
Seriously, Nagash just looks like a whining jerk who would rather put blinkers on and single-mindlessly fight the anti-chaos coalition over a handful of souls he was ""denied"" ignoring the fact chaos devours them by a bucketful. How the hell is small, elite force of stormcast in any reasonable way a bigger issue than whole realms occupied by chaos?
This is also my issue with the reforging story in the malign portents - somehow, author managed to both ruin the stormcast mystique and shown Nagash as dumb, one track jerk. Before, stormcast were tragic - heroes who were selflessly fighting for the greater good, losing bits of themselves due to Nagash machinations. Ok, that worked, and made Nagash look sinister, but not that petty.
Now, however, it turns out the stormcast who lose bits of memories are morons and shirkers who fail to see the big picture (like the one who saw zombies made out of his family, and wanted to hug them, ignoring the fact these empty shells wearing his family corpses had literally nothing to do with them anymore, which was amply demonstrated when they torn him to ribbons) and the bits they remove are made out of pure stupidium. If a soul would endanger his companions and break ranks dying pointlessly because Nagash/chaos/whatever killed their family and wear the remains as clothing Necron-style, instead, of you know, beating them back so that others won't suffer the same fate, then good riddance, delete the idiot bits in next reforging even if that does make them more automaton-like, because wanting to hug zombies doesn't place anywhere near even most remote definition of reasonable even when eternal enslavement and torture in hell is not the thing on the line.
I'd honestly prefer the whole 'I see family among zombies' was just evil, malignant illusion designed to weaken fighting spirit, because "evil necromancer wiped his butt with my family and now I want to join them after seeing my daddy's corpse dance on strings of some foul magic" ranks among the DUMBEST motivations of anything I have ever read in fantasy.
The story also conversely implies the heroes who have no issues with following Sigmar and in fact do agree with him, should endure reforging relatively intact in painless manner, making the 'damaged' ones no longer tragic, just stupid, and Nagash with his new anti-sigmarine (and not anti-daemon, like someone less spiteful and short-sighted would produce) spookies look so petty it honestly ruins the whole ghost faction to me. I can excuse a lot, being murderous, backstabbing, even traitor, but evil pettiness of the Dastardly & Muttley kind is rather grating
That’s a remarkably one sided account, to define resisting conscription as stupidity.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I imagine it will include a 'week after' FAQ on the new rulebook too. Let use know if they respond!
They did respond, but with the non-answer I was expecting...
Warhammer Age of Sigmar wrote:That is a very good question and it's not one we can currently answer! If we hear more about the FAQ update, we'll pass it along here.
Mysterio wrote: Yeah - Nagash appears to have conveniently forgotten this point!
Nagash draws his strength from the souls sent to death. If Sigmar and the others are intercepting and pulling souls away then Nagash is losing power. Sigmar is also taking the best of souls so its not just regular, but the elite of souls.
At the start its not a problem, but given enough time Nagash would end up with an underworld populated with masses of weak souls whilst Sigmar and the elves would have armies of supersouled creatures.
Ergo Nagash very much comes off worse in the long term and ends up in a weaker position against aelve and Sigmar. So its no shock that he's mobilized armies and is attempting to correct this situation now before it becomes a serious problem. Nagahs is basically playing the long game rather than focusing on short term goals.
NinthMusketeer wrote:So after getting around to the AoS podcasts, I have to say I am really not concerned with free summoning anymore. They seem to be very concious about making sure summoning was not overpowered which makes me feel that the potential exploitive elements we see now will be errata'd at or after 2nd ed launch.
Also if I wasn't excited for the narrative angle before I would be after hearing them talk about it.
One thing I've been trying to impress on people is that this is no longer the GW who waits an entire edition to change rules. They react to the meta and make changes where necessarily. There will be balance issue in AoS 2.0, but GW will attempt to fix them. We're getting two major FAQs/Errata a year, and GW has shown in the past that they will also make balance changes outside of this (the Stormraven change). It's important that we continue communicating with GW, though. They are listening now.
NinthMusketeer wrote: There are several points already in existence where I see free summoning as problematic (it's really not difficult to plop down an Exalted GUO on round 4 for example, which even that late in the game has no business being free) but since GW is very obviously aware of summoning as a potential problem it gives me confidence they will address those exploits, or are at least likely to.
It is remarkable how we celebrate GW finally listening and interacting with customers, when really they just abuse this to write even more garbage untested rules and fix it with errata based on public outcry.
Really happy to see point cost reductions on so many of these guys. Earlier I was talking about how FEC are poor next to other battletome armies but not bad overall because there are so many armies that more or less don't even see the tabletop; these armies are among those I was talking about.
Really happy to see point cost reductions on so many of these guys. Earlier I was talking about how FEC are poor next to other battletome armies but not bad overall because there are so many armies that more or less don't even see the tabletop; these armies are among those I was talking about.
Honestly, for some of them it's just that they aren't really able to be fielded as their 'own' army but rather relegated to Allied status and some people just don't like that.
And there's some that could realistically be armies(Swifthawk Agents immediately spring to mind) but because of the weirdness of Hero choices the faction just feels very unfocused/weird.
I feel Skaven are like that. They feel odd, like a warplightning cannon is Skrye, but a plague claw catapult is nurgle and pestilens. Rat Ogres are Moulder, and the Hell Pit doesnt even have the skaven keyword but is moulder. Unless of course i missed an errata? I just wish I could play a Skaven army... why isnt it all verminous?
Elves have a truly ridiculous number of trivial subfactions. Clearly tyrion, malerion and slaanesh need to come along and clean house. Need to keep up with Morathi and Teclis!
Voss wrote: Elves have a truly ridiculous number of trivial subfactions. Clearly tyrion, malerion and slaanesh need to come along and clean house. Need to keep up with Morathi and Teclis!
Teclis doesn't have a subfaction.
That's the whole point of the Idoneth. They're the ones who shunned Teclis and his attempt to 'purify' them.
Chopxsticks wrote: I feel Skaven are like that. They feel odd, like a warplightning cannon is Skrye, but a plague claw catapult is nurgle and pestilens. Rat Ogres are Moulder, and the Hell Pit doesnt even have the skaven keyword but is moulder. Unless of course i missed an errata? I just wish I could play a Skaven army... why isnt it all verminous?
Since only Skyre and Pestilens even have allegiance abilities, you just run them as a Chaos allegiance army.
Really happy to see point cost reductions on so many of these guys. Earlier I was talking about how FEC are poor next to other battletome armies but not bad overall because there are so many armies that more or less don't even see the tabletop; these armies are among those I was talking about.
Honestly, for some of them it's just that they aren't really able to be fielded as their 'own' army but rather relegated to Allied status and some people just don't like that.
And there's some that could realistically be armies(Swifthawk Agents immediately spring to mind) but because of the weirdness of Hero choices the faction just feels very unfocused/weird.
Absolutely. My rule of thumb is five choices; if you have at least five options that include at least one hero and one battleline then you're an army.
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Chopxsticks wrote: I feel Skaven are like that. They feel odd, like a warplightning cannon is Skrye, but a plague claw catapult is nurgle and pestilens. Rat Ogres are Moulder, and the Hell Pit doesnt even have the skaven keyword but is moulder. Unless of course i missed an errata? I just wish I could play a Skaven army... why isnt it all verminous?
Skaven really suffer for lack of a generic 'Skaven' allegiance. Mixed rats can be run using Chaos allegiance but that allegiance simply isn't designed with them in mind, nor does it complinent them well at all. Look out sir and multiple command abilities will certainly help them at least.
Voss wrote: Elves have a truly ridiculous number of trivial subfactions. Clearly tyrion, malerion and slaanesh need to come along and clean house. Need to keep up with Morathi and Teclis!
Honestly I wish GW would combine several into alliance groups - ergo sub groups that can't field a whole army but be taken as allies and are designed as such. The other option is that they are going to flesh them out. I'm not opposed to that but that means that there's going to be a half dozen armies where there was just one before. That's a huge amount of models to make, release, price, balance and get onto the market. Plus it means that there's WAY more armies for the future. My worry is that we'll reach a point where Sigmar has so many armies that GW can't even find time to update older sculpts within them; let alone release new things for them (even thogh having cut the armies up like they have will leave lots of potential slots - eg a lot of the armies have no artillery right now)
NinthMusketeer wrote: Absolutely. My rule of thumb is five choices; if you have at least five options that include at least one hero and one battleline then you're an army.
I look at what they have access to. If there's not a foot hero and a mounted hero option when there are foot and mounted units, it's not enough.
Voss wrote: Elves have a truly ridiculous number of trivial subfactions. Clearly tyrion, malerion and slaanesh need to come along and clean house. Need to keep up with Morathi and Teclis!
Honestly I wish GW would combine several into alliance groups - ergo sub groups that can't field a whole army but be taken as allies and are designed as such. The other option is that they are going to flesh them out. I'm not opposed to that but that means that there's going to be a half dozen armies where there was just one before. That's a huge amount of models to make, release, price, balance and get onto the market. Plus it means that there's WAY more armies for the future. My worry is that we'll reach a point where Sigmar has so many armies that GW can't even find time to update older sculpts within them; let alone release new things for them (even thogh having cut the armies up like they have will leave lots of potential slots - eg a lot of the armies have no artillery right now)
I feel like it's worth mentioning that under the old High Elf book, many of these things effectively were their own factions/armies.
I've been plugging for larger sub-allegiances since GHB1; I think they would be a good addition. Give us a "Skaven" allegiance within Chaos that covers multiple factions and is more specialized than the grand alliance but less so than a true faction allegiance. Ditto for Aelf, Duardin, Human, Grot, Orruk, Ogor, and Chaos Daemon. But now I'm wishlisting
NinthMusketeer wrote: Absolutely. My rule of thumb is five choices; if you have at least five options that include at least one hero and one battleline then you're an army.
I look at what they have access to. If there's not a foot hero and a mounted hero option when there are foot and mounted units, it's not enough.
I just call that a bad army, but I see your perspective.
ph34r wrote:I'm with Nagash on this one. If the whole bargain was for him to help vs Chaos, taking souls away from him permanently seems like a back-stabby move.
Now a new name I can add to Sigmar. "Sigmar the No god. Sigmar the Coward. Sigmar the Betrayer". OOO sounds better in three's than in two's.
Sabotage! wrote: I haven't seen anything yet, though admittedly I don't really follow AOS that closely, but has anyone seen if GW is going to be doing anything with Skirmish in the new Core Book or the new General's Handbook (I heard the original book was very underwhelming)? I really don't have any desire to get into another big army type game, but I do love a lot of the AOS models, enjoy the simplicity of the rules design, and would love to have an excuse to throw some dice around with a couple of my buddy who are likewise interested.
The Magic book is going to have a Skirmish section where you can play skirmish on the edge of the realms, as spell hunters trying to tame the wild magic on the fringes of the world.
If you want better Skirmish rules though I would suggest checking http://www.tga.community/ where there are a couple of fan-made skirmish systems that are more in-depth than the GW one.
Thanks for the info and suggestion, I really appreciate it! I'll look into the systems at TGA.
Nagash is still a massive selfish dick about the whole thing (otherwise known as 'a bad guy') but one can see how, from his perspective, it's justified. That's how to write a good villain and I'm happy to see it. Often I see people forget that a purely evil character is just as silly and tiresome as a purely good one.
Sabotage! wrote: I haven't seen anything yet, though admittedly I don't really follow AOS that closely, but has anyone seen if GW is going to be doing anything with Skirmish in the new Core Book or the new General's Handbook (I heard the original book was very underwhelming)? I really don't have any desire to get into another big army type game, but I do love a lot of the AOS models, enjoy the simplicity of the rules design, and would love to have an excuse to throw some dice around with a couple of my buddy who are likewise interested.
The Magic book is going to have a Skirmish section where you can play skirmish on the edge of the realms, as spell hunters trying to tame the wild magic on the fringes of the world.
If you want better Skirmish rules though I would suggest checking http://www.tga.community/ where there are a couple of fan-made skirmish systems that are more in-depth than the GW one.
Thanks for the info and suggestion, I really appreciate it! I'll look into the systems at TGA.
Is Hinterlands still up or did it get taken down when Bottle got hired?
shinros wrote: Not sure if anyone has posted this yet. The article talks about souls, I recall there was a topic about this in the general AOS section.
Nagash, as self-appointed God of Death and Grand Necromancer, lays eventual claim to every single soul in the Mortal Realms as his by right – an arrangement that, during the Age of Myth, was agreed upon by the other gods in Sigmar’s pantheon.
The fluff is actually pretty interesting. Sad that the box comes with SC, cause it would have been an insta buy otherwise.
80 USD for the magic expansion is a lot less than I expected. Kudos GW
NinthMusketeer wrote:So after getting around to the AoS podcasts, I have to say I am really not concerned with free summoning anymore. They seem to be very concious about making sure summoning was not overpowered which makes me feel that the potential exploitive elements we see now will be errata'd at or after 2nd ed launch.
Also if I wasn't excited for the narrative angle before I would be after hearing them talk about it.
One thing I've been trying to impress on people is that this is no longer the GW who waits an entire edition to change rules. They react to the meta and make changes where necessarily. There will be balance issue in AoS 2.0, but GW will attempt to fix them. We're getting two major FAQs/Errata a year, and GW has shown in the past that they will also make balance changes outside of this (the Stormraven change). It's important that we continue communicating with GW, though. They are listening now.
Keep in mind though that this isn't always a good thing. GW still isn't...great at rules and the community isn't any better so we end up in this weird negative feedback loop that results in destruction being nerfed into the ground, fyreslayers being overbuffed, most battalions being useless, them failing to correctly FAQ the balewind vortex 3 times, and the rule of three(by far the worst rule GW has ever written).
shinros wrote: Not sure if anyone has posted this yet. The article talks about souls, I recall there was a topic about this in the general AOS section.
Nagash, as self-appointed God of Death and Grand Necromancer, lays eventual claim to every single soul in the Mortal Realms as his by right – an arrangement that, during the Age of Myth, was agreed upon by the other gods in Sigmar’s pantheon.
The fluff is actually pretty interesting. Sad that the box comes with SC, cause it would have been an insta buy otherwise.
80 USD for the magic expansion is a lot less than I expected. Kudos GW
SC will always be easy to offload on eBay, though.
Keep in mind though that this isn't always a good thing. GW still isn't...great at rules and the community isn't any better so we end up in this weird negative feedback loop that results in destruction being nerfed into the ground, fyreslayers being overbuffed, most battalions being useless, them failing to correctly FAQ the balewind vortex 3 times, and the rule of three(by far the worst rule GW has ever written).
I was with you right up until the "rule of three" part
NinthMusketeer wrote: Nagash is still a massive selfish dick about the whole thing (otherwise known as 'a bad guy') but one can see how, from his perspective, it's justified. That's how to write a good villain and I'm happy to see it. Often I see people forget that a purely evil character is just as silly and tiresome as a purely good one.
Sabotage! wrote: I haven't seen anything yet, though admittedly I don't really follow AOS that closely, but has anyone seen if GW is going to be doing anything with Skirmish in the new Core Book or the new General's Handbook (I heard the original book was very underwhelming)? I really don't have any desire to get into another big army type game, but I do love a lot of the AOS models, enjoy the simplicity of the rules design, and would love to have an excuse to throw some dice around with a couple of my buddy who are likewise interested.
The Magic book is going to have a Skirmish section where you can play skirmish on the edge of the realms, as spell hunters trying to tame the wild magic on the fringes of the world.
If you want better Skirmish rules though I would suggest checking http://www.tga.community/ where there are a couple of fan-made skirmish systems that are more in-depth than the GW one.
Thanks for the info and suggestion, I really appreciate it! I'll look into the systems at TGA.
Is Hinterlands still up or did it get taken down when Bottle got hired?
Hinterlands is gone sadly. Hopefully bottle is working on an official replacement
I'm hoping for some sort of revised skirmish as well. I know it will take me a while to actually complete each of the units included in the new starter, seeing as to how I tend to paint one guy at a time... I still have the khorgorath and a single Stormcast Prosecutor needing to finish off the original starter...
The new core book seems the perfect spot for new Skirmish rules. Of course, I'd say the same for the general's handbook, but that's another perfect opportunity to ding us for another purchase, isn't it...
Unless all the matched play costs are in the new core book and I missed that blurb....
I'm not alone with this : the only AOS as a whole is lacking right now is a proper Skirmish game.
I hope GW (with Bottle) release an AOSified version of Mordheim in the following years.
Yeah, there is a Skirmish game in Malign Sorcery, true ; and we have AOS2 ; an RPG in the work, card/video games, Shadespire, Warhammer Quest, a gak ton of ways to play (Path to glory, multiplayer, etc.).
But the only thing really lacking is a stand alone Skirmish game ; in the same veins as Necromunda, Kill Team, Rogue Trader, etc.
Imagine if FW made a game with crazy John Blanche like models (like those citizen of Hammerhal sketch) and the like ? Also new city scenery. That d'be awesome.
HorticulusDK wrote: I'm not alone with this : the only AOS as a whole is lacking right now is a proper Skirmish game.
I hope GW (with Bottle) release an AOSified version of Mordheim in the following years.
Yeah, there is a Skirmish game in Malign Sorcery, true ; and we have AOS2 ; an RPG in the work, card/video games, Shadespire, Warhammer Quest, a gak ton of ways to play (Path to glory, multiplayer, etc.).
But the only thing really lacking is a stand alone Skirmish game ; in the same veins as Necromunda, Kill Team, Rogue Trader, etc.
Imagine if FW made a game with crazy John Blanche like models (like those citizen of Hammerhal sketch) and the like ? Also new city scenery. That d'be awesome.
Pretty much this. I'd even settle for Bottle just porting over his Hinterland rules (which I recently discovered and are very cool). As someone who doesn't have time/ the inclination for huge army games, skirmish in Sigmar would be awesome.
Here are some 2.0 rumors/leaks that have come from a TGA user:
At the end of each turn, you will lose as many models as it takes to return that unit to coherency.
When a general dies mid game, you will select a new one.
Confirmation that command abilities can be used more than once.
Bale wind vortex adds +6" and one additional spell per round for the wizard on it. Wizards on it cannot have a wounds characteristic more than 8 (thus no Morathi or Eidolon). Enemies can banish it on a 6+ in their own hero phase, but they must be a wizard and it takes a casting attempt to do so.
The six Matched Play scenarios in the core rulebook are those from the GHB2016. This leads me to speculate that of the 12 in GHB2018, 6 will be those from GHB2017 and 6 will be new.
Monsters and Warmachines over 8 wounds will no longer gain bonuses to saves from cover.
That's all I have right now.
Bale wind vortex adds +6" and one additional spell per round for the wizard on it. Wizards on it cannot have a wounds characteristic more than 8 (thus no Morathi or Eidolon). Enemies can banish it on a 6+ in their own hero phase, but they must be a wizard and it takes a casting attempt to do so.
So regular Morathi can still be up there since she doesn't have over 8 wounds. I would also assume Monster Morathi wouldn't be able to be on it any more anyway.
Binabik15 wrote: Regarding coherency, I always liked WarmaHordes bubble coherency. Stops conga lines and other weird outcrops of "must be within x inch of y models".
Binabik15 wrote: Regarding coherency, I always liked WarmaHordes bubble coherency. Stops conga lines and other weird outcrops of "must be within x inch of y models".
I am curious. What is the bubble coherency?
All models in a unit must be in X distance to the unit leader, building a bubble of models around and making it impossible to build a conga
Binabik15 wrote: Regarding coherency, I always liked WarmaHordes bubble coherency. Stops conga lines and other weird outcrops of "must be within x inch of y models".
I am curious. What is the bubble coherency?
All models in a unit must be in X distance to the unit leader, building a bubble of models around and making it impossible to build a conga
Thank you. For some reason I was thinking it wasn't this.
Manfred von Drakken wrote: So, I'm just gonna stick Morathi MkI behind one of these things and dare people to shoot her at a -3...
Unless I missed an article...Cover still only grants a bonus to your save, not a negative to your being hit.
Also it wouldn't work if you're fishing for a "Look Out Sir!" in addition to her Enchanting Beauty rule, since it's not a unit of 3 or more models.
And it's kind of a silly chance to take since you could get stuck going first and the other play would then get to have the Gravetide chomp down on her.
I will say, I'm waiting to hear back on this but if all of these "Fly" spells can be affected by the Ritual of the Tempest from the Idoneth...things are going to get interesting.
Which means...it hurts yours and their models if it passes both. ,just cause its your turn doesn't mean your immune to the effects of its moving. if you can bury one of these spells in your opponents area then they take damage when it comes in..and when it leaves.
Which means...it hurts yours and their models if it passes both. ,just cause its your turn doesn't mean your immune to the effects of its moving. if you can bury one of these spells in your opponents area then they take damage when it comes in..and when it leaves.
"Passed across". That's important. It's why I'm looking at the whole Ritual of the Tempest thing--if you can 'ground' it, then it can be rendered harmless until your next Hero Phase.
The picking a new general thing is huge with the way it works on command traits-it creates opportunity to change command traits mid battle. Combined with traits that grant a 1/game ability that seems kinda cheesy.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The picking a new general thing is huge with the way it works on command traits-it creates opportunity to change command traits mid battle. Combined with traits that grant a 1/game ability that seems kinda cheesy.
Also, that blurb doesn't seem to expressly deny Command Traits to named characters anymore (unless that rule appears elsewhere).
NinthMusketeer wrote: The picking a new general thing is huge with the way it works on command traits-it creates opportunity to change command traits mid battle. Combined with traits that grant a 1/game ability that seems kinda cheesy.
It's going to be really, really, really iffy. They basically just cemented Fuethan Eel heavy armies with a disposable Tidecaster as being a thing.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The picking a new general thing is huge with the way it works on command traits-it creates opportunity to change command traits mid battle. Combined with traits that grant a 1/game ability that seems kinda cheesy.
It's going to be really, really, really iffy. They basically just cemented Fuethan Eel heavy armies with a disposable Tidecaster as being a thing.
I think I'm missing something here. The Tidecaster thing only tiggers at the start, it doesn't matter what happens to her after.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The picking a new general thing is huge with the way it works on command traits-it creates opportunity to change command traits mid battle. Combined with traits that grant a 1/game ability that seems kinda cheesy.
It's going to be really, really, really iffy. They basically just cemented Fuethan Eel heavy armies with a disposable Tidecaster as being a thing.
I think I'm missing something here. The Tidecaster thing only tiggers at the start, it doesn't matter what happens to her after.
That's exactly what I'm meaning...
Tidecaster gets taken, you get to reverse the tides. Fuethan counts Ebb Tide as Flood Tide(Run+Charge/Run+Shoot). Since most people are going to be loading up on at least one Namarti Corps, taking Eels as Fuethan without them being Battleline ain't no thang. Tidecaster gets given some stuff to let her run in and basically get ganked--King becomes your General, turn 2 High Tide with King.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The picking a new general thing is huge with the way it works on command traits-it creates opportunity to change command traits mid battle. Combined with traits that grant a 1/game ability that seems kinda cheesy.
It's going to be really, really, really iffy. They basically just cemented Fuethan Eel heavy armies with a disposable Tidecaster as being a thing.
I think I'm missing something here. The Tidecaster thing only tiggers at the start, it doesn't matter what happens to her after.
That's exactly what I'm meaning...
Tidecaster gets taken, you get to reverse the tides. Fuethan counts Ebb Tide as Flood Tide(Run+Charge/Run+Shoot). Since most people are going to be loading up on at least one Namarti Corps, taking Eels as Fuethan without them being Battleline ain't no thang. Tidecaster gets given some stuff to let her run in and basically get ganked--King becomes your General, turn 2 High Tide with King.
Unless the opponent understands what you're trying to do, ignores the Tidecaster and kills your Akhelian King first (which he should, because the King is definitely the bigger threat).
I really don't see that sort of strategy being a problem at all.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The picking a new general thing is huge with the way it works on command traits-it creates opportunity to change command traits mid battle. Combined with traits that grant a 1/game ability that seems kinda cheesy.
It's going to be really, really, really iffy. They basically just cemented Fuethan Eel heavy armies with a disposable Tidecaster as being a thing.
I think I'm missing something here. The Tidecaster thing only tiggers at the start, it doesn't matter what happens to her after.
That's exactly what I'm meaning...
Tidecaster gets taken, you get to reverse the tides. Fuethan counts Ebb Tide as Flood Tide(Run+Charge/Run+Shoot). Since most people are going to be loading up on at least one Namarti Corps, taking Eels as Fuethan without them being Battleline ain't no thang. Tidecaster gets given some stuff to let her run in and basically get ganked--King becomes your General, turn 2 High Tide with King.
Unless the opponent understands what you're trying to do, ignores the Tidecaster and kills your Akhelian King first (which he should, because the King is definitely the bigger threat).
I really don't see that sort of strategy being a problem at all.
In that case, you do something stupid like (spitballing here...) have her walking into your Endless Spells.
This is gonna get me into 
, but I'm not sure where they'll be slotted in.
