Mysterio wrote: Ah, so GW *thinks* the exchange rate is at 1.7 when it is actually at 1.3.
OK!
To be fair, that works the same way with a lot of companies. When we buy US and Asian goods in the UK, quite often the GBP price is very close to the USD price despite the exchange rate difference. That was even the case a few years ago, when the difference was much larger.
Mr_Rose wrote: Regarding the fluff, what more do you want from the beginning rule book? It details the crusade, the discovery of the legions, the diaspora and the founding of new Forge Worlds, and the narrative scenarios themselves are fluff; part of the background of the Heresy, ‘historical’ depictions of ‘actual’ events.
It also has those neat snippets from the rise of a Princeps from Warhound pilot all the way to commencement speaker for the graduating class of their branch of the collegiate titanica, which presumably makes her at least princeps seniores, but maybe princeps maximus.
What it feels like to be crew of titan so it's not just nameless robot firing at another robot.
I wish they would use more extracts from their own novels....
Mysterio wrote: Ah, so GW *thinks* the exchange rate is at 1.7 when it is actually at 1.3.
OK!
To be fair, that works the same way with a lot of companies. When we buy US and Asian goods in the UK, quite often the GBP price is very close to the USD price despite the exchange rate difference. That was even the case a few years ago, when the difference was much larger.
Apple products are a case in point, they're grossly overpriced in the UK compared to the US cost. (And just grossly overpriced ...)
Mysterio wrote: Ah, so GW *thinks* the exchange rate is at 1.7 when it is actually at 1.3.
OK!
To be fair, that works the same way with a lot of companies. When we buy US and Asian goods in the UK, quite often the GBP price is very close to the USD price despite the exchange rate difference. That was even the case a few years ago, when the difference was much larger.
Apple products are a case in point, they're grossly overpriced in the UK compared to the US cost. (And just grossly overpriced ...)
Most people in the UK don't realize that a surprisingly large part of the reason for that is that the UK retail price includes VAT of 20%. American retail prices as advertised never include sales taxes (probably because they vary not just by state but quite often by city as well).
A Macbook Pro 13" retailing for £1249 in the UK is actually being sold for £1040.83 + VAT of £208.17. £1040.83 = $1341.97 at today's rate - which is very close to the US price of $1299. It's only a 3.3% exchange rate difference - you wouldn't beat that by much if you were exchanging your own money to USD.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So the Reaver's retail pricing of £35 is actually £29.17 once you take out the VAT. That corresponds to $37.60 in USD. Basically everyone buying GW from overseas is getting ripped off MUCH more than they think because GW has a fictitious USD/GBP exchange rate of 2:1 and it isn't like they're treating any customers in other countries any better. Even ROW buyers who still buy in GBP no longer get the VAT taken out at checkout (though they used to) - I'm surprised GW hasn't driven ROW buyers to buy in USD even though the product is being shipped from the UK.
American products do this too. one thing to keep in mind is storage costs shippping costs etc are proably higher for GW overseas. they're still ripping folks off but some of the extra money is understandable.
There is of course other matters to consider in the extra/over amount:
• Extra rate obtained is never as good as that listed on International currency exchanges.
• Exchange rate risk
• International shipping
• Risk on losses of product and avoidance of a fluctuating price to consumers
• Import tax on goods
• Local storage and logistics
• Local shipping
• etc.
I appreciate paying what people perceive paying more money for their toys as important but please do consider that international business does come at a premium that will inevitably be reflected in price.
As I say this may be important to the individual but no need to have this repeated ad nausea on every page on every SKU released, it’s a bit dull, almost asinine given the general price point of this line and...it only upsets the Antipodeans.
notprop wrote: There is of course other matters to consider in the extra/over amount:
• Extra rate obtained is never as good as that listed on International currency exchanges. • Exchange rate risk • International shipping • Risk on losses of product and avoidance of a fluctuating price to consumers • Import tax on goods • Local storage and logistics • Local shipping • etc.
I appreciate paying what people perceive paying more money for their toys as important but please do consider that international business does come at a premium that will inevitably be reflected in price.
GW is a completely vertically-integrated company. The cost of a product to them is nowhere near the price at which they sell to the consumers. And if the cost of doing business in international markets were really so high, they would run their business from the UK and use distributors in the US in order to harmonize prices worldwide as much as possible - and the distributors would have the motivation to do this as if it were cheaper to buy direct from the UK then consumers would do that (note we no longer have this option - quite deliberately! - because it WAS cheaper for consumers to buy from UK retailers and GW itself right up until GW closed that option). No, they do what they do because they can - they've chosen to harmonize prices in line with the exchange rate data from 1981, and the people keep buying, so why not?
notprop wrote: There is of course other matters to consider in the extra/over amount:
• Extra rate obtained is never as good as that listed on International currency exchanges.
• Exchange rate risk
• International shipping
• Risk on losses of product and avoidance of a fluctuating price to consumers
• Import tax on goods
• Local storage and logistics
• Local shipping
• etc.
I appreciate paying what people perceive paying more money for their toys as important but please do consider that international business does come at a premium that will inevitably be reflected in price.
GW is a completely vertically-integrated company. The cost of a product to them is nowhere near the price at which they sell to the consumers. And if the cost of doing business in international markets were really so high, they would run their business from the UK and use distributors in the US in order to harmonize prices worldwide as much as possible - and the distributors would have the motivation to do this as if it were cheaper to buy direct from the UK then consumers would do that (note we no longer have this option - quite deliberately! - because it WAS cheaper for consumers to buy from UK retailers and GW itself right up until GW closed that option). No, they do what they do because they can - they've chosen to harmonize prices in line with the exchange rate data from 1981, and the people keep buying, so why not?
Dude, you're Canadian, why do you act like this is rare, you should be used to it, remember when the USD was lower then the Canadian Dollar? We where STILL paying more for a good many things
Dude, you're Canadian, why do you act like this is rare, you should be used to it, remember when the USD was lower then the Canadian Dollar? We where STILL paying more for a good many things
Canada's special because it's one of those places where you buy stuff from overseas and get stiffed worse by your own government than you would have if you'd just sucked it up and bought locally in the first place.
That's why I have a mailbox in Washington...
Dude, you're Canadian, why do you act like this is rare, you should be used to it, remember when the USD was lower then the Canadian Dollar? We where STILL paying more for a good many things
Canada's special because it's one of those places where you buy stuff from overseas and get stiffed worse by your own government than you would have if you'd just sucked it up and bought locally in the first place.
That's why I have a mailbox in Washington...
Dude, you're Canadian, why do you act like this is rare, you should be used to it, remember when the USD was lower then the Canadian Dollar? We where STILL paying more for a good many things
Canada's special because it's one of those places where you buy stuff from overseas and get stiffed worse by your own government than you would have if you'd just sucked it up and bought locally in the first place. That's why I have a mailbox in Washington...
So you can cheat on your taxes?
I declare everything when crossing the border, because I was on the naughty list for a while and always got pulled in for secondary inspection. No cheating involved. There's a tax-free allowance if you stay over 24 hours.
Like all residents of Canada though, I do like to smuggle shoes over. Y'know, scuff 'em up a bit first then just wear them as I travel back.
While $60 is too much for me for a Reaver, I can wait for a retailer discount coupled with an eBay coupon (would be around $43 at that point). That, I can stomach.
If the reaver is really 60 usd that is actually fine for me. Especially considering discount seller prices. So I could get two of these for slightly cheaper than a warlord. The light maniples now seem like the most cost friendly way to get into the game. So for now i'm considering skipping the warlord, getting 1 reaver and 2 warhounds in october.
I think I'm one of the fortunate ones who doesn't like the Warlord Titan...so I'm spared. If it was necessary to play I wouldn't even consider AT --- one of my friends has the game though so I can probably talk myself into a few legit or secondary market Titans and some knights.
Thargrim wrote: If the reaver is really 60 usd that is actually fine for me. Especially considering discount seller prices. So I could get two of these for slightly cheaper than a warlord. The light maniples now seem like the most cost friendly way to get into the game. So for now i'm considering skipping the warlord, getting 1 reaver and 2 warhounds in october.
intreasting to see how points would work there, I can't see to find the points costs for titans anyone know where they are?
Thargrim wrote: If the reaver is really 60 usd that is actually fine for me. Especially considering discount seller prices. So I could get two of these for slightly cheaper than a warlord. The light maniples now seem like the most cost friendly way to get into the game. So for now i'm considering skipping the warlord, getting 1 reaver and 2 warhounds in october.
intreasting to see how points would work there, I can't see to find the points costs for titans anyone know where they are?
Thargrim wrote: If the reaver is really 60 usd that is actually fine for me. Especially considering discount seller prices. So I could get two of these for slightly cheaper than a warlord. The light maniples now seem like the most cost friendly way to get into the game. So for now i'm considering skipping the warlord, getting 1 reaver and 2 warhounds in october.
Did you mean to write “slightly more than a Warlord”?
Thargrim wrote: If the reaver is really 60 usd that is actually fine for me. Especially considering discount seller prices. So I could get two of these for slightly cheaper than a warlord. The light maniples now seem like the most cost friendly way to get into the game. So for now i'm considering skipping the warlord, getting 1 reaver and 2 warhounds in october.
intreasting to see how points would work there, I can't see to find the points costs for titans anyone know where they are?
They are on the command consoles/weapon cards. But Battlescribe now has data files.
Thargrim wrote: If the reaver is really 60 usd that is actually fine for me. Especially considering discount seller prices. So I could get two of these for slightly cheaper than a warlord. The light maniples now seem like the most cost friendly way to get into the game. So for now i'm considering skipping the warlord, getting 1 reaver and 2 warhounds in october.
Light Maniple really appeals to me as a gaming challenge too. Using the Warhounds is easy enough, because they do what they do. But getting the Reaver into a good position to really unleash hell with the freebie shots?
Thargrim wrote: If the reaver is really 60 usd that is actually fine for me. Especially considering discount seller prices. So I could get two of these for slightly cheaper than a warlord. The light maniples now seem like the most cost friendly way to get into the game. So for now i'm considering skipping the warlord, getting 1 reaver and 2 warhounds in october.
intreasting to see how points would work there, I can't see to find the points costs for titans anyone know where they are?
They are on the command consoles/weapon cards. But Battlescribe now has data files.
Thargrim wrote: If the reaver is really 60 usd that is actually fine for me. Especially considering discount seller prices. So I could get two of these for slightly cheaper than a warlord. The light maniples now seem like the most cost friendly way to get into the game. So for now i'm considering skipping the warlord, getting 1 reaver and 2 warhounds in october.
Did you mean to write “slightly more than a Warlord”?
Mostly depends on where I buy specific things from, but i'm gonna take advantage of one of those ebay sales so in a way...cheaper lol
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Thargrim wrote: If the reaver is really 60 usd that is actually fine for me. Especially considering discount seller prices. So I could get two of these for slightly cheaper than a warlord. The light maniples now seem like the most cost friendly way to get into the game. So for now i'm considering skipping the warlord, getting 1 reaver and 2 warhounds in october.
Light Maniple really appeals to me as a gaming challenge too. Using the Warhounds is easy enough, because they do what they do. But getting the Reaver into a good position to really unleash hell with the freebie shots?
It's going to be tricky giving the single reaver a good loadout though. 1 reaver, 2 warhounds, and a 6 strong knight banner comes close to 1k points. Having the warhounds equipped solely to strip shields could be tricky cause if you lose the reaver somehow early on then you've got 2 warhounds that can't do enough to compensate.
Thargrim wrote: If the reaver is really 60 usd that is actually fine for me. Especially considering discount seller prices. So I could get two of these for slightly cheaper than a warlord. The light maniples now seem like the most cost friendly way to get into the game. So for now i'm considering skipping the warlord, getting 1 reaver and 2 warhounds in october.
Did you mean to write “slightly more than a Warlord”?
Mostly depends on where I buy specific things from, but i'm gonna take advantage of one of those ebay sales so in a way...cheaper lol
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Thargrim wrote: If the reaver is really 60 usd that is actually fine for me. Especially considering discount seller prices. So I could get two of these for slightly cheaper than a warlord. The light maniples now seem like the most cost friendly way to get into the game. So for now i'm considering skipping the warlord, getting 1 reaver and 2 warhounds in october.
Light Maniple really appeals to me as a gaming challenge too. Using the Warhounds is easy enough, because they do what they do. But getting the Reaver into a good position to really unleash hell with the freebie shots?
It's going to be tricky giving the single reaver a good loadout though. 1 reaver, 2 warhounds, and a 6 strong knight banner comes close to 1k points. Having the warhounds equipped solely to strip shields could be tricky cause if you lose the reaver somehow early on then you've got 2 warhounds that can't do enough to compensate.
Play Legio Gryphonicus and run with 2 reavers and 2 warhounds?
that does raise a valid question and one we should ask the FAQ, how does the Legio Gryphonicus abilities work with the Venator Maniple's special ability, does an extra reaver count as a warhound for the rules purpose, or a reaver?
Have Forge World said anything concrete about a new Battlefleet game? Like "it's coming out in 20xx"? Or is it just that they've said they'd like to do it next? I mean, they said that about Adeptus Titanicus after Blood Bowl, then we got Necromunda.
AndrewGPaul wrote: I read that as a "wen hell freezes over" comment rather than a promise of a new Battlefleet game and Adeptus Arbites.
well a new battlefleet game we know is coming. as I said Arbites is "intreasting" although I could see maybe a Necromundea Arbities "gang"
Necromunda are getting Palatine Enforcers rather than Arbites(the Governor's personal thugs, basically). If we're getting Arbites, it'll either be in a Rogue Trader-style Kill Team expansion box set, or as a GSC-style 40K minifaction.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Have Forge World said anything concrete about a new Battlefleet game? Like "it's coming out in 20xx"? Or is it just that they've said they'd like to do it next? I mean, they said that about Adeptus Titanicus after Blood Bowl, then we got Necromunda.
I can't recall what I last read on it specifically, but I think the Battlefleet might be going through some of the same change that AT went through - ergo both were envisioned at the turn of the Management and both were going to be short resin FW projects but are not being shifted into mainstream and thus plastic products. So that might be a reason the Battlefleet return has stalled or at least been delayed.
But we've not heard anything from the big events this year. I think that it is safe to say its a way off as yet.
schoon wrote: I have to agree that Reaver pricing is a welcome surprise. I see using more Reavers than Warlords.
Now just waiting for the Warhound... and the first supplement
Not forgetting the extra weapons! I think we'll see the first weapon upgrades very soon. Looking in the rulebook, you can see the Plasma Annihilator, Carapace Laser Blasters and what looks to be the Quake Cannon on the Warlords.
AndrewGPaul wrote: I read that as a "wen hell freezes over" comment rather than a promise of a new Battlefleet game and Adeptus Arbites.
well a new battlefleet game we know is coming. as I said Arbites is "intreasting" although I could see maybe a Necromundea Arbities "gang"
Necromunda are getting Palatine Enforcers rather than Arbites(the Governor's personal thugs, basically). If we're getting Arbites, it'll either be in a Rogue Trader-style Kill Team expansion box set, or as a GSC-style 40K minifaction.
Yep, and only a few weeks after launch. But I guess this game is still 'dead on arrival'...
Seems to have sold like hotcakes. The Facebook group is incredibly active.
Hell, my own personal copy arrives tonight.
Who said it's "dead on arrival"? Some well-informed individuals with fantastic business degrees who somehow are privy to the internal sales numbers and planning of Games Workshop? Or just some random internet people with a quivering lower lip, clenched fist, and tear welling in their eye?
Shame about the extra terminals/cards being webstore exclusives, but with "sensible" amounts of those being included with the rules I can see the rationale for it. I'm just not sensible is all.
endtransmission wrote: We stopped off at Warhammer World yesterday and, despite being sold out online, they keep getting restocks of the big box in the WW store.
From what I've heard they recalled all the stock meant for demo/open copies from gw stores after launch. So if I was a betting man I'd guess at least some of that has gone to keeping warhammer world in stock for a while.
Krinsath wrote: Shame about the extra terminals/cards being webstore exclusives, but with "sensible" amounts of those being included with the rules I can see the rationale for it. I'm just not sensible is all.
the cards are actually something you don't get many of I'm realizing. If you wanna run multiples of a titan with the same weapons load out you'll eaither need new cards, or need to make your own.
This picture was posted earlier to this thread. I'm not making 100% sense of the sprues since I'm still learning what everything is, but as far as I can tell:
- Power Fist
- Gatling (3 identical 2-barrel pieces)
- Apocalypse
- Laser Blaster? Looks like 3 laser barrels
TigerMafia wrote: This picture was posted earlier to this thread. I'm not making 100% sense of the sprues since I'm still learning what everything is, but as far as I can tell:
- Power Fist
- Gatling (3 identical 2-barrel pieces)
- Apocalypse
- Laser Blaster? Looks like 3 laser barrels
The reaver doesn't come with as many options, only 1 carapace weapon, fist, laser, gatling. It's unfortunate but at least they got the basics in the kit. I do hope they make an upgrade sprue with another carapace option (laser), chainfist, melta cannon, and hopefully..if they can fit it...the reaver volcano cannon. The warp missile support rack is low priority IMO, i'd just paint the apocalypse missile launcher with weird colors or convert it.
Yeah just been looking at the FW Reaver Weapons and it looks like it is just the Fist, Apoc launcher and Gatling. The sprue makes it deceptive as the fist arm looks to have a few parts.
Looking at that sprue it pretty clearly contains the four weapons from this image, plus the head.
If you look through some of the art in the AT rulebook, it's clearly based on model photographs and includes unreleased weapon & head options for both of these titans. This includes a reaver chainfist that doesn't exist on the 28mm version. I reckon only the Warhound will get all the options in the basic kit, while the Reaver & Warlord will see additional weapon/head packs on a single sprue. First up will probably be powerfirst, plasma annihilator & laser blasters for Warlord, and volcano cannon, chainfist & something else for reavers.
The game designers also specifically mentioned the warp missile as being one of the rarer things done in resin. I just want to see something aside from apocalypse launchers on every titan...
xttz wrote: If you look through some of the art in the AT rulebook, it's clearly based on model photographs and includes unreleased weapon & head options for both of these titans. This includes a reaver chainfist that doesn't exist on the 28mm version. I reckon only the Warhound will get all the options in the basic kit, while the Reaver & Warlord will see additional weapon/head packs on a single sprue. First up will probably be powerfirst, plasma annihilator & laser blasters for Warlord, and volcano cannon, chainfist & something else for reavers.
The game designers also specifically mentioned the warp missile as being one of the rarer things done in resin. I just want to see something aside from apocalypse launchers on every titan...
The Reaver chainfist did exist at one time - no idea it vanished:
xttz wrote: If you look through some of the art in the AT rulebook, it's clearly based on model photographs and includes unreleased weapon & head options for both of these titans. This includes a reaver chainfist that doesn't exist on the 28mm version. I reckon only the Warhound will get all the options in the basic kit, while the Reaver & Warlord will see additional weapon/head packs on a single sprue. First up will probably be powerfirst, plasma annihilator & laser blasters for Warlord, and volcano cannon, chainfist & something else for reavers.
The game designers also specifically mentioned the warp missile as being one of the rarer things done in resin. I just want to see something aside from apocalypse launchers on every titan...
The Reaver chainfist did exist at one time - no idea it vanished:
looks like someone just glued a land raider track to the titan!
endtransmission wrote: We stopped off at Warhammer World yesterday and, despite being sold out online, they keep getting restocks of the big box in the WW store.
Brick and mortar stores over here (Spain, Madrid) were all pretty well stocked of everything, including the big box. At least in the case of independent stores, that is.
Technically, the carapace-mounted turbolaser destructor isn't available for the 40k Reaver - you'd need to buy the redoubt RoB tile which includes one. It's got two barrels to the laser blaster's 3. I don't know how the one from the RoB tile compares, size-wise, to the one on the Warhound.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Technically, the carapace-mounted turbolaser destructor isn't available for the 40k Reaver - you'd need to buy the redoubt RoB tile which includes one. It's got two barrels to the laser blaster's 3. I don't know how the one from the RoB tile compares, size-wise, to the one on the Warhound.
The barrels are the same part actually. FW for years has put off selling the turbolaser from the RoB tile separately, I ask every few months or so.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Technically, the carapace-mounted turbolaser destructor isn't available for the 40k Reaver - you'd need to buy the redoubt RoB tile which includes one. It's got two barrels to the laser blaster's 3. I don't know how the one from the RoB tile compares, size-wise, to the one on the Warhound.
The barrels are the same part actually. FW for years has put off selling the turbolaser from the RoB tile separately, I ask every few months or so.
Wonder if it's cause there are eneugh suckers willing to buy the entire ROB tile for the weapon?
I'm thinking of doing the dual Power First Reaver just for the fun of it (don't actually think it's viable in game unless you have really dense terrain).
I'm thinking of doing the dual Power First Reaver just for the fun of it (don't actually think it's viable in game unless you have really dense terrain).
Maybe as a close combat escort for a Warlord, but I tend to agree not likely viable, in fact given the rules I'm not really sure melee weapons are worthwhile for titans.
How many are folks buying who bought the full set? 4? Two for each side?
I have the full set. I'll be buying one Reaver and probably a second some time later. But I'm painting up both my Warlords for the same Legio so I only have one side
How many are folks buying who bought the full set? 4? Two for each side?
I have the full set. I'll be buying one Reaver and probably a second some time later. But I'm painting up both my Warlords for the same Legio so I only have one side
I have the full set, I'll be buying 2. Most individual armies won't need more then 2 reaver's. Although a Legio Gryfonicus player could conceviably run a Axiom Maniple of 4 reavers and a warhound.
I'll be picking up 3 Reavers on launch. That's enough for free shipping, and I run Gryphonicus anyway so it works for a couple of maniples. I was also thinking about converting the 3rd laser blaster into a turbo-laser to get some variety in carapace options.
It was a bit disappointing not to get any AT news from NOVA. I'm starting to worry we won't get any more weapon options until after Xmas.
xttz wrote: I'll be picking up 3 Reavers on launch. That's enough for free shipping, and I run Gryphonicus anyway so it works for a couple of maniples. I was also thinking about converting the 3rd laser blaster into a turbo-laser to get some variety in carapace options.
It was a bit disappointing not to get any AT news from NOVA. I'm starting to worry we won't get any more weapon options until after Xmas.
we likely won't. although if the Warhound is indeed november there is a "hole" in October I could see a warlord weapons sprue being released
TalonZahn wrote: Old Epic was 6mm (1/285th) an the new AT is 8mm (1/225th) so Titans will definitely look out of place.
Vehicles, I guess would depend on which ones and when/who made them.
Anyone know how big the Forbidden Stars stuff is? I know they have vehicles in that game.
New AT has actually pushed me further along to buying a 3d printer. There is tons of great stuff out there.
Actually, old Epic was all over the joint - the old Warlord was smaller than the new Reaver - and we've not worked out what new AT is yet because I built my Warlord in a fancy pose and nobody else who has calipers wants to build theirs in the utterly neutral stance seen in the spec-plates in the book.
TalonZahn wrote: Old Epic was 6mm (1/285th) an the new AT is 8mm (1/225th) so Titans will definitely look out of place.
Vehicles, I guess would depend on which ones and when/who made them.
Anyone know how big the Forbidden Stars stuff is? I know they have vehicles in that game.
New AT has actually pushed me further along to buying a 3d printer. There is tons of great stuff out there.
Actually, old Epic was all over the joint - the old Warlord was smaller than the new Reaver - and we've not worked out what new AT is yet because I built my Warlord in a fancy pose and nobody else who has calipers wants to build theirs in the utterly neutral stance seen in the spec-plates in the book.
Well, I would disagree with your assessments of the measurements being figured out.
There have been many measurements taken by the STL / 3D printer communities and the agreed upon sizes are as I posted.
I agree that there were discrepancies among the oldest Epic Titans (not vehicles), but the last FW stuff (Titans) was size consistent.
They did build and measure the neutral pose. I believe that GW themselves did the same, although I can't recall which WHC update it was. 34 meters tall Warlord measured 150mm, .226.6~ or 1/225th for model scales. Although I'm not sure they were clear on the exact measurement points...top of launchers, top of carapace, etc..
The U.S. page says almost 6 inches which is @ 6 inches = 152mm... or 1/223rd scale.
Azreal13 wrote: There's a 1:1 picture on the back of the box.
Wow, derp, can't believe I didn't notice that. Thanks.
In that case - the 32.76m measurement given in the book for a "resting" Titan is stated as being exclusive of weapons, and the "actual size" image measures ~121mm to the tippy-top of its void generators, so it's 1:270-ish? Closer to 1:271. That would make a 1.8m "scale human" ~6.65mm tall. Vindication, I think - it's pretty much still "6mm scale", they just fixed the Titans to be the proper size. That also supports the interpretation of the info that came out of a 'fest ages ago that they scaled Space Marines at ~8mm to make sure they looked good and worked outward from there.
If lots of people want to give their Reavers that loadout, GW will be making money hand over Fist.....
I'll see myself out. In more related news, this game also has me looking at 28mm Titans again... Anyone else feeling a renewed draw from the big beasties of Forgeworld?
Yodhrin wrote: and we've not worked out what new AT is yet because I built my Warlord in a fancy pose and nobody else who has calipers wants to build theirs in the utterly neutral stance seen in the spec-plates in the book.
Xanthos wrote: If lots of people want to give their Reavers that loadout, GW will be making money hand over Fist.....
I'll see myself out. In more related news, this game also has me looking at 28mm Titans again... Anyone else feeling a renewed draw from the big beasties of Forgeworld?
To work on mine, yes. To buy more, not until FW ends it's stupid price hike
Xanthos wrote: If lots of people want to give their Reavers that loadout, GW will be making money hand over Fist.....
I'll see myself out. In more related news, this game also has me looking at 28mm Titans again... Anyone else feeling a renewed draw from the big beasties of Forgeworld?
To work on mine, yes. To buy more, not until FW ends it's stupid price hike
Pre order is up on the NZ site, the reaver looks even better when you look at the 360 spin. Truly an awesome model and for 60 bucks it's a no brainer for me.
Choice of carapace with or without embossed detail and the head's constructed like the IK kit, so you can paint the eye details then attach the mask. Noice.
Those wires make reposing look much more difficult than the warlord though. Going to be tricky to magnetise those arms with ball sockets and connecting wires.
That Reaver is a beautiful model, much better than the Warlord in my opinion. I may never pick up AT, but I may very well pick up a Reaver just to paint.
changemod wrote: Those wires make reposing look much more difficult than the warlord though. Going to be tricky to magnetise those arms with ball sockets and connecting wires.
I think the magnetising point is above the ball and socket, and if you look carefully the Titan end of the cables aren't attached to the body, merely positioned so it appears they are.
Remember, they've explicitly said the kits are designed with magnetization in mind.
changemod wrote: Those wires make reposing look much more difficult than the warlord though. Going to be tricky to magnetise those arms with ball sockets and connecting wires.
I think the magnetising point is above the ball and socket, and if you look carefully the Titan end of the cables aren't attached to the body, merely positioned so it appears they are.
Remember, they've explicitly said the kits are designed with magnetization in mind.
At the FW open day I went to, the guy at the Titanicus stall said the Reaver’s arms aren’t pre-prepped for magnets.
Yodhrin wrote: and we've not worked out what new AT is yet because I built my Warlord in a fancy pose and nobody else who has calipers wants to build theirs in the utterly neutral stance seen in the spec-plates in the book.
Word of the designers of models not good enough?
Well, no, because the words of the designers weren't clear, and as it turns out the interpretation of those words people chose to accept was wrong. They're 1:270 scale, which is well shy of the vague, nebulous range of actual scales encompassed by "8mm". They remain within the vague, nebulous range of actual scales instead encompassed by "6mm".
Received wisdom is always inferior to direct observation when the latter is possible.
They said in one of the videos that the pipes are in the kit and posed as they are like in the original FW model; however because this is plastic not resin the reposing of legs and arms means that the pipes might not fit. In resin you basically heated the pipes up and gently bent them to fit a new pose, with the plastic that can't quite work so you're left either with the stock pose; leaving them off or adjusting them with a bit of greenstuff and clippers.
One bonus is that as the Reaver comes with optional weapons you can at least get an idea of where you need to fit magnets and how to magnetize it.
Overread wrote: They said in one of the videos that the pipes are in the kit and posed as they are like in the original FW model; however because this is plastic not resin the reposing of legs and arms means that the pipes might not fit. In resin you basically heated the pipes up and gently bent them to fit a new pose, with the plastic that can't quite work so you're left either with the stock pose; leaving them off or adjusting them with a bit of greenstuff and clippers.
Overread wrote: They said in one of the videos that the pipes are in the kit and posed as they are like in the original FW model; however because this is plastic not resin the reposing of legs and arms means that the pipes might not fit. In resin you basically heated the pipes up and gently bent them to fit a new pose, with the plastic that can't quite work so you're left either with the stock pose; leaving them off or adjusting them with a bit of greenstuff and clippers.
Umm, guitar wire? Or would that be out of scale?
Might well work - it might just be thin enough and has all the ridges that the tubes have!
Dropped by the GW US website to check out the Reaver. It's up. Cool. Reaver pack with two reavers and a set of reaver command cards (but not rules). Cool. Maniple with three warlords, two reavers, and the necessary command cards. Um...
On the one hand, cool. On the other hand, lots of local places are apparently screaming for more stock. And it may be a while before those local places are able to get their warlords restocked from GW. So I'm feeling just a bit irritable at the suggestion that GW might be holding stock back to put into a giant bundle (which, it should be noted, does not appear to save you any money, or include the rules).
I admit that GW will probably sell only limited numbers of those bundles (which retail for just under $500US). But still...
It’s not a “bundle” - it’s a one-click time-saver. They are pulled from exactly the same pool of stock as every other order involving warlords, reavers or the Maniple terminal set.
I don't get why they haven't provided the command and weapon cards in the kit with the model. I mean I get why they didn't, so you have to buy them separately, but still....why not just throw in the bare minimum to provide for whats in the box?!
FrothingMuppet wrote: I don't get why they haven't provided the command and weapon cards in the kit with the model. I mean I get why they didn't, so you have to buy them separately, but still....why not just throw in the bare minimum to provide for whats in the box?!
proably the cut down on the cost of the cuts since they do give you some terminals and cards with the rules IIRC
I think it's so that the rules and models are kept separate. That gives them the option later of revising rules or even using the titan kits for a new set of Epic rules without expensive repackaging. Think about all the 40k kits that went to 'temporarily unavailable' while they were recalled to replace assembly instructions with ones that had 8E rules.
However the price & availability of the weapon cards & command terminals is probably the most frustrating aspect of this new range. I ordered 3 Reavers so I'm one terminal short, but the only way to fix that is to spend £15 on carboard most of which I'll never use. There's only 1 of each weapon card in the rules set so that's another £7.50 for the ~6 cards I need. Of course it's all only available direct from GW, so no discounts. Finally as far as I can see there's no way to get additional Knight banner terminals currently aside from buying a full rules pack.
Unfortunately no one on ebay has been splitting up their rules sets to sell off spare command terminals & weapon cards so far. Guess it's time to break out the photocopier 90's style.
xttz wrote: However the price & availability of the weapon cards & command terminals is probably the most frustrating aspect of this new range. I ordered 3 Reavers so I'm one terminal short, but the only way to fix that is to spend £15 on carboard most of which I'll never use. There's only 1 of each weapon card in the rules set so that's another £7.50 for the ~6 cards I need. Of course it's all only available direct from GW, so no discounts. Finally as far as I can see there's no way to get additional Knight banner terminals currently aside from buying a full rules pack.
For a few bucks more you can get a rules pack, which currently seems like the best way to acquire more terminals and cards. You get a spare rulebook and gubbinz as a bonus!
xttz wrote: I think it's so that the rules and models are kept separate. That gives them the option later of revising rules or even using the titan kits for a new set of Epic rules without expensive repackaging. Think about all the 40k kits that went to 'temporarily unavailable' while they were recalled to replace assembly instructions with ones that had 8E rules.
However the price & availability of the weapon cards & command terminals is probably the most frustrating aspect of this new range. I ordered 3 Reavers so I'm one terminal short, but the only way to fix that is to spend £15 on carboard most of which I'll never use. There's only 1 of each weapon card in the rules set so that's another £7.50 for the ~6 cards I need. Of course it's all only available direct from GW, so no discounts. Finally as far as I can see there's no way to get additional Knight banner terminals currently aside from buying a full rules pack.
Unfortunately no one on ebay has been splitting up their rules sets to sell off spare command terminals & weapon cards so far. Guess it's time to break out the photocopier 90's style.
I'm halfway toying with scanning in a command terminal so I can alter the background colour in GIMP to make both sides distinct for demos.
FrothingMuppet wrote: I don't get why they haven't provided the command and weapon cards in the kit with the model. I mean I get why they didn't, so you have to buy them separately, but still....why not just throw in the bare minimum to provide for whats in the box?!
Those cardstock components are really expensive. Would have driven up the price of the box for people that just want the model (which I think is a pretty substantial portion of people buying it) or people that want a bunch to paint/model in different ways but don't plan on using them all at once.
FrothingMuppet wrote: I don't get why they haven't provided the command and weapon cards in the kit with the model. I mean I get why they didn't, so you have to buy them separately, but still....why not just throw in the bare minimum to provide for whats in the box?!
Those cardstock components are really expensive. Would have driven up the price of the box for people that just want the model (which I think is a pretty substantial portion of people buying it) or people that want a bunch to paint/model in different ways but don't plan on using them all at once.
I (somewhat) understand why the cardboard isn’t provided with the models. What I don’t get is that the weapons cards, of which anyone absolutely needs more if fielding more than a single titan of a type, are GW web store exclusives. They are also horrendously expensive. I can’t help but feel that the rules and game boxes should have contained more than a single copy of the cards, or that they should have been readily available at retail.
Also GW doesn’t make cardboard so this would limit their ability to keep up with model demand (they can always issue pdfs it needs be).
Conversely I think it was a very good idea to include the Reaver and Warhound terminals in the GME/Ruleset boxes. They didn’t need to but there they are, buillt in expansion.
xttz wrote: However the price & availability of the weapon cards & command terminals is probably the most frustrating aspect of this new range. I ordered 3 Reavers so I'm one terminal short, but the only way to fix that is to spend £15 on carboard most of which I'll never use. There's only 1 of each weapon card in the rules set so that's another £7.50 for the ~6 cards I need. Of course it's all only available direct from GW, so no discounts. Finally as far as I can see there's no way to get additional Knight banner terminals currently aside from buying a full rules pack.
For a few bucks more you can get a rules pack, which currently seems like the best way to acquire more terminals and cards. You get a spare rulebook and gubbinz as a bonus!
Seriously considering doing this now. £30 gets me the Reaver & Warlord packs plus 5 terminal cards
Alternatively £28 gets me:
6 titan and 2 knight terminals
At least one more each of every titan's weapon card
Extra dice, tokens & battlefield assets
Another rulebook I can probably either sell, or leave for reference at my local club
notprop wrote: Also GW doesn’t make cardboard so this would limit their ability to keep up with model demand (they can always issue pdfs it needs be).
Conversely I think it was a very good idea to include the Reaver and Warhound terminals in the GME/Ruleset boxes. They didn’t need to but there they are, buillt in expansion.
I thought they did? I could be wrong, but I'm sure there was a rumour circulating a while back that GW had purchased the machinery and/or tools to produce cardstock.
Most printed GWthings I have bought recently have made in China on them.
I don’t know about GW but have a few mates in printing and they say most large scale quality printing isn’t done in the U.K. anymore. They were referring primarily to hardback books but cardstock could sit with this as well?
They used Panda Game Manufacturing, which is based in Vancouver, Canada but has a factory in Shenzhen, China.
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zedmeister wrote: I thought they did? I could be wrong, but I'm sure there was a rumour circulating a while back that GW had purchased the machinery and/or tools to produce cardstock.
Their external suppliers (for cardstock & transfers) keep letting them down, and their in-house facilities aren't up to speed yet - although we are seeing some transfers return.
notprop wrote: Also GW doesn’t make cardboard so this would limit their ability to keep up with model demand (they can always issue pdfs it needs be).
Conversely I think it was a very good idea to include the Reaver and Warhound terminals in the GME/Ruleset boxes. They didn’t need to but there they are, buillt in expansion.
I thought they did? I could be wrong, but I'm sure there was a rumour circulating a while back that GW had purchased the machinery and/or tools to produce cardstock.
Pretty much all of their card stock and boxes are printed in China. I've also been told (by a reliable source at WHW) that often the production costs of the boxes will be significantly higher than the value of the contents inside.
I wouldn't put too much faith in that photo. I'm pretty sure they get the printed materials, packaging etc delivered to the UK and assemble everything where the models are produced as that's the bulk of the weight in the final product. There's no sense in shipping thousands of sprues to China to get boxes assembled with less oversight or QC, then shipping them back out again.
The box number is almost certainly referring to the packages within a shipping container, which will be carrying a either wide range of GW stock or printed supplies for GW to use. It won't all be Titanicus.
I wouldn't put too much faith in that photo. I'm pretty sure they get the printed materials, packaging etc delivered to the UK and assemble everything where the models are produced as that's the bulk of the weight in the final product. There's no sense in shipping thousands of sprues to China to get boxes assembled with less oversight or QC, then shipping them back out again.
The box number is almost certainly referring to the packages within a shipping container, which will be carrying a either wide range of GW stock or printed supplies for GW to use. It won't all be Titanicus.
Panda have UK sites, so it's possible they're doing all the work - but I don't know.
Despite the expense of buying them separately, I'm glad they didn't pack the cards and terminals with the models.
It means you can, if you and your opponent are so inclined, buy no minis at all and still play--by using old Epic Titans instead.
GW still gets a bit of money out of it... and you don't have to pay megabucks for swanky new models just to play a game you don't yet know if you'll like.
Which may encourage you to grudgingly pick up the Rules Set for use with your old Titans.
Which may then tempt you into actually investing in the new Titans. After all, you've gone and bought the rules and accessories already, and you've had time to digest the rules and think things over, and some almost-affordable models like the Reaver have come out.
Zenithfleet wrote: Despite the expense of buying them separately, I'm glad they didn't pack the cards and terminals with the models.
It means you can, if you and your opponent are so inclined, buy no minis at all and still play--by using old Epic Titans instead.
GW still gets a bit of money out of it... and you don't have to pay megabucks for swanky new models just to play a game you don't yet know if you'll like.
Which may encourage you to grudgingly pick up the Rules Set for use with your old Titans.
Which may then tempt you into actually investing in the new Titans. After all, you've gone and bought the rules and accessories already, and you've had time to digest the rules and think things over, and some almost-affordable models like the Reaver have come out.
Which means GW gets a lot more of your money.
I mean, it could happen.
It's happening to me.
Send help.
This was what I did Just working on some templates for the smaller scale.
Of course, I traded a new Warlord this week... is this the slippery slope?
The new Reavers arrived today. They are NOT made for magnetizing out of the box, but they do look fairly easy to magnetize, at least between the different guns.
The fist assembles at the shoulder, like the 28mm version, with a ball joint, making it more difficult to magnetize for swapping with the guns.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and they are a breeze to build, great kit. Only weird thing is that the lower leg piston armor is a separate pice on these, whereas it was attached to the pistons on the Warlord.
not being mangitzeable is sad, but ahh well... so long as people know what mini is associated with what card I don't think people are gonna be anal about WYSIWYG
Xanthos wrote: The new Reavers arrived today. They are NOT made for magnetizing out of the box, but they do look fairly easy to magnetize, at least between the different guns.
The fist assembles at the shoulder, like the 28mm version, with a ball joint, making it more difficult to magnetize for swapping with the guns.
Are you saying the guns share an upper arm piece that the powerfirst doesn't, so they can't all be swapped the same way?
Xanthos wrote: The new Reavers arrived today. They are NOT made for magnetizing out of the box, but they do look fairly easy to magnetize, at least between the different guns.
The fist assembles at the shoulder, like the 28mm version, with a ball joint, making it more difficult to magnetize for swapping with the guns.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and they are a breeze to build, great kit. Only weird thing is that the lower leg piston armor is a separate pice on these, whereas it was attached to the pistons on the Warlord.
Feth it all, GW! Why in the world would you make the Warlord easily magnetized and not do the same to the Reaver? What reason could you possibly have for building up goodwill among modellers with one model and then flushing it away on the very next one? So freaking stupid.
That was the original 28mm versions. Why on Earth would you think that in this day and age, when they use computers to model literally everything they produce, they wouldn't use them for the Warhound and the Reaver?
Xanthos wrote: The new Reavers arrived today. They are NOT made for magnetizing out of the box, but they do look fairly easy to magnetize, at least between the different guns.
The fist assembles at the shoulder, like the 28mm version, with a ball joint, making it more difficult to magnetize for swapping with the guns.
Are you saying the guns share an upper arm piece that the powerfirst doesn't, so they can't all be swapped the same way?
Yup. The fist has a different upper arm piece, and won't fit on the gun lower arm in a sensible way.
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MajorWesJanson wrote: The warlord was cad designed and optimised. The reaver and wzrhound were not.
The AT models were all made as cad models. The Reaver and Warhound were meticulously measured and converted to cad for this project. So that's not why.
I suspect that the reaver was finished before the Warlord, since it shows hints of being earlier in the sculptors development of skills with cad.
Interestingly, this means that with a bit of extra work, Forgeworld could replace the existing Rever and Warhound molds for cad designed ones, which sure would help since the current masters have a few issues...
I'm honestly not all that irked with it, it's a bummer but the top carapace weapon shouldn't be too hard to magnetize. With the reavers I think i'm going to take extra care to think over what i'm going to take before gluing anything. This game was kind of intended for more experienced gamers and modelers to begin with.
I will say the reavers look funny naked without their armor plates though.
MajorWesJanson wrote: The warlord was cad designed and optimised. The reaver and wzrhound were not.
The AT models were all made as cad models. The Reaver and Warhound were meticulously measured and converted to cad for this project. So that's not why.
I suspect that the reaver was finished before the Warlord, since it shows hints of being earlier in the sculptors development of skills with cad.
Interestingly, this means that with a bit of extra work, Forgeworld could replace the existing Rever and Warhound molds for cad designed ones, which sure would help since the current masters have a few issues...
While the reaver and warhound were measured and converted to cad, they were hand sculpted originally, and lack a lot of the optimization that the warlord model has in 28mm. They have more cables and individual piston elements, which add to the versimilitude, while the warlord lacks some of that, especially in the leg area, which does make it a lot easier to build though.
At the least, it would be nice if fw finished the weapons loadout for the reaver carapace, and probably redid the plasma and megabolter for the warhound so they are ambidexterous like the newer turbolaser and flamer.
Thargrim wrote: I'm honestly not all that irked with it, it's a bummer but the top carapace weapon shouldn't be too hard to magnetize. With the reavers I think i'm going to take extra care to think over what i'm going to take before gluing anything. This game was kind of intended for more experienced gamers and modelers to begin with.
I will say the reavers look funny naked without their armor plates though.
Interestingly, having had a second look at the Carapace launcher, it DOES have magnet attachment holes. So only the arms are lacking the possibility to magnetize. Weirder and weirder...
Yup. The fist has a different upper arm piece, and won't fit on the gun lower arm in a sensible way.
Does it look viable to magnetise both the shoulder and elbow joint so guns can be swapped? Or are the guns like the Warlord volcano cannons where they assemble around the arm? Nevermind I can make sense of the sprue now
Yup. The fist has a different upper arm piece, and won't fit on the gun lower arm in a sensible way.
Does it look viable to magnetise both the shoulder and elbow joint so guns can be swapped? Or are the guns like the Warlord volcano cannons where they assemble around the arm?
Looking at the sprues the upper arm is on the weapon sprue so unless fw wants to enrage the fanbase they are gonna have to include upper arms with all the weapons packs they release for the reaver and warlord. They could just include a left and right arm per multi weapon pack but I can see them getting a lot of push back if they did.
Yep, 1 Warlord, 2 Reavers, 4 Warhounds for this guy, and I'm not even sure if it's anything more than a modeling project at this point! (Local interest is.. not strong.)
Yup. The fist has a different upper arm piece, and won't fit on the gun lower arm in a sensible way.
Does it look viable to magnetise both the shoulder and elbow joint so guns can be swapped? Or are the guns like the Warlord volcano cannons where they assemble around the arm?
Looking at the sprues the upper arm is on the weapon sprue so unless fw wants to enrage the fanbase they are gonna have to include upper arms with all the weapons packs they release for the reaver and warlord. They could just include a left and right arm per multi weapon pack but I can see them getting a lot of push back if they did.
The whole arm is on the weapon sprue for the warlord.
How hard would it be to take the ball joint off the Reaver arm and put a Ball Bearing in its place. Then put a Magnet in the carapace?
Yup. The fist has a different upper arm piece, and won't fit on the gun lower arm in a sensible way.
Does it look viable to magnetise both the shoulder and elbow joint so guns can be swapped? Or are the guns like the Warlord volcano cannons where they assemble around the arm?
Looking at the sprues the upper arm is on the weapon sprue so unless fw wants to enrage the fanbase they are gonna have to include upper arms with all the weapons packs they release for the reaver and warlord. They could just include a left and right arm per multi weapon pack but I can see them getting a lot of push back if they did.
The whole arm is on the weapon sprue for the warlord.
How hard would it be to take the ball joint off the Reaver arm and put a Ball Bearing in its place. Then put a Magnet in the carapace?
Not hard at all. I am going to accept having only planar movement and just replace the ball joint in one arm with a pair of disc magnets. That way I can switch for the fist when needed.
Daston wrote: The whole arm is on the weapon sprue for the warlord.
Yes but the only part that is likely to be universal and therefore potentially in short supply is the upper arm. The rest of the arm will almost certainly be different for each weapon so I didn't see the need to mention it.
Daston wrote: The whole arm is on the weapon sprue for the warlord.
Yes but the only part that is likely to be universal and therefore potentially in short supply is the upper arm. The rest of the arm will almost certainly be different for each weapon so I didn't see the need to mention it.
I might be missing your point. But the upper arm is on the weapon sprue. The only part that isn't is the actual mounting point which is the torso.
Daston wrote: The whole arm is on the weapon sprue for the warlord.
Yes but the only part that is likely to be universal and therefore potentially in short supply is the upper arm. The rest of the arm will almost certainly be different for each weapon so I didn't see the need to mention it.
I might be missing your point. But the upper arm is on the weapon sprue. The only part that isn't is the actual mounting point which is the torso.
Ah sorry I probably removed a little too much of the quote and with that some context.
Yup. The fist has a different upper arm piece, and won't fit on the gun lower arm in a sensible way.
Does it look viable to magnetise both the shoulder and elbow joint so guns can be swapped? Or are the guns like the Warlord volcano cannons where they assemble around the arm?
Looking at the sprues the upper arm is on the weapon sprue so unless fw wants to enrage the fanbase they are gonna have to include upper arms with all the weapons packs they release for the reaver and warlord. They could just include a left and right arm per multi weapon pack but I can see them getting a lot of push back if they did.
The whole arm is on the weapon sprue for the warlord.
My point was essentially that you saying that the whole arm is on the weapons sprue was a pointless correction since the only component that may be in short supply is the upper arm.
As mentioned the Reavers carapace weapon fits a 5mm x 1mm magnet just like the warlord.
The way I have done my arms is to cut off the top of the ball and socket of the arm. Then you can magnetise. It’s clearly much more fiddly and a lot less precise than the warlord and does mean you risk messing up your model but not the hardest thing in the world to do. Then you can do the same with the powerfist aswell so you can include them in mixing weapons around.
As with the warlord, the weapon upgrade spires better come with the upper arm or weapon swaps are not possible and will cause a lot of hate.
I haven't even got my shipment notification from GW for store pickup for my reavers, unusual cause when the rules box came out they shipped it asap and got it day of release.
Not only does $60 seem "okay" (I view it solely at max discount which I could find it at), but it makes the $110 price on the Warlord that much more galling/stupid to me.
Elbows wrote: Not only does $60 seem "okay" (I view it solely at max discount which I could find it at), but it makes the $110 price on the Warlord that much more galling/stupid to me.
I think they're counting on people buying lots of reavers as they're going to be the workhorse titan
Oh, I'm sure...however that's a pricing tactic which doesn't matter to me as a consumer. When I see a Reaver which is a more versatile kit and 80% the size of a Warlord at 50% the price, the Warlord looks like a joke.
Elbows wrote: Oh, I'm sure...however that's a pricing tactic which doesn't matter to me as a consumer. When I see a Reaver which is a more versatile kit and 80% the size of a Warlord at 50% the price, the Warlord looks like a joke.
Part of the problem is that, by all acounts, the reaver is a far less technical kit.
The posing possible with the Warlord is almost unreal, and once we get weapon packs will start to really shine through (its there right now but most people just aren't taking full advantage of it.)
The reaver is...pretty basic it sounds.
I'll get mine tomorrow, and my opinion may change once its built, but generally speaking the 'technical level"of a kit is a big decider in price levels (see the gundam line of models for a close example.)
Regardless, I doubt anyone is buying warlords atm, so it's not a big point of contention I feel.
I just hope warhounds are similarly reasonable. Maybe 50 for 2 or so.
I'm looking forward to hearing their plan for future releases, as there's literally dozens of different areas where they could expand the game after the Warhounds come out.
There's not much on the schedule, only really Spiel in Germany which tends to be more board- and card-game focused like Gencon. It's the sort of place where they'd announce content like Space Adventures, Munchkin or Blitz Bowl.
There's also a WHW 40k open day at the end of November.
Elbows wrote: Not only does $60 seem "okay" (I view it solely at max discount which I could find it at), but it makes the $110 price on the Warlord that much more galling/stupid to me.
It's not as obvious from the photo above, but the Reaver model really does have about half the mass of a Warlord and the sprues seem to be half the size too. It's basically half a Warlord for half the price.
I also have a theory that the Reaver is priced akin to an Intercessor squad in 40k because it fulfills a similar role as the main battleline unit and you're likely to have the most of them. Meanwhile the Warlord is priced akin to 40k Repulsors / Gorkanauts, because typical armies will use them as a supporting unit rather than a core unit.
xttz wrote: There's not much on the schedule, only really Spiel in Germany which tends to be more board- and card-game focused like Gencon. It's the sort of place where they'd announce content like Space Adventures, Munchkin or Blitz Bowl.
There's also a WHW 40k open day at the end of November.
Elbows wrote: Not only does $60 seem "okay" (I view it solely at max discount which I could find it at), but it makes the $110 price on the Warlord that much more galling/stupid to me.
It's not as obvious from the photo above, but the Reaver model really does have about half the mass of a Warlord and the sprues seem to be half the size too. It's basically half a Warlord for half the price.
I also have a theory that the Reaver is priced akin to an Intercessor squad in 40k because it fulfills a similar role as the main battleline unit and you're likely to have the most of them. Meanwhile the Warlord is priced akin to 40k Repulsors / Gorkanauts, because typical armies will use them as a supporting unit rather than a core unit.
thats my theory too, granted it'd be nice if we have a Maniple that gave us say.. 3 reavers and 2 warhounds (and yes a Legio Gryphonicus Axiom would fill that but.. that doesn't count
xttz wrote: There's not much on the schedule, only really Spiel in Germany which tends to be more board- and card-game focused like Gencon. It's the sort of place where they'd announce content like Space Adventures, Munchkin or Blitz Bowl.
There's also a WHW 40k open day at the end of November.
Elbows wrote: Not only does $60 seem "okay" (I view it solely at max discount which I could find it at), but it makes the $110 price on the Warlord that much more galling/stupid to me.
It's not as obvious from the photo above, but the Reaver model really does have about half the mass of a Warlord and the sprues seem to be half the size too. It's basically half a Warlord for half the price.
I also have a theory that the Reaver is priced akin to an Intercessor squad in 40k because it fulfills a similar role as the main battleline unit and you're likely to have the most of them. Meanwhile the Warlord is priced akin to 40k Repulsors / Gorkanauts, because typical armies will use them as a supporting unit rather than a core unit.
That would actually go against fluff where WARLORDS are actually most numerous. Reavers being more ancient they have technology that's harder to replicate than the warlord that's newer and not having quite as fancy technology as reaver. Reaver class technology on warlord sized titan would be superior to the warlord.
Aside from the Knights, the price for both Reaver and Warlord is reasonable to GW standard based on number of sprue and sprue size.
You might disagree or unhappy with what you get in the Warlord kit, but it's still 3 large sprue, compare to other similar 3 large sprue product, which had similar price, or higher.
xttz wrote: There's not much on the schedule, only really Spiel in Germany which tends to be more board- and card-game focused like Gencon. It's the sort of place where they'd announce content like Space Adventures, Munchkin or Blitz Bowl.
There's also a WHW 40k open day at the end of November.
Elbows wrote: Not only does $60 seem "okay" (I view it solely at max discount which I could find it at), but it makes the $110 price on the Warlord that much more galling/stupid to me.
It's not as obvious from the photo above, but the Reaver model really does have about half the mass of a Warlord and the sprues seem to be half the size too. It's basically half a Warlord for half the price.
I also have a theory that the Reaver is priced akin to an Intercessor squad in 40k because it fulfills a similar role as the main battleline unit and you're likely to have the most of them. Meanwhile the Warlord is priced akin to 40k Repulsors / Gorkanauts, because typical armies will use them as a supporting unit rather than a core unit.
That would actually go against fluff where WARLORDS are actually most numerous. Reavers being more ancient they have technology that's harder to replicate than the warlord that's newer and not having quite as fancy technology as reaver. Reaver class technology on warlord sized titan would be superior to the warlord.
I don't disbelive you but I've not been able to find anything beyond vague referances on a wiki about the reaver being an older Titan. whats the source on that info? I'd like to be able to expand my knowledge
xttz wrote: There's not much on the schedule, only really Spiel in Germany which tends to be more board- and card-game focused like Gencon. It's the sort of place where they'd announce content like Space Adventures, Munchkin or Blitz Bowl.
There's also a WHW 40k open day at the end of November.
Elbows wrote: Not only does $60 seem "okay" (I view it solely at max discount which I could find it at), but it makes the $110 price on the Warlord that much more galling/stupid to me.
It's not as obvious from the photo above, but the Reaver model really does have about half the mass of a Warlord and the sprues seem to be half the size too. It's basically half a Warlord for half the price.
I also have a theory that the Reaver is priced akin to an Intercessor squad in 40k because it fulfills a similar role as the main battleline unit and you're likely to have the most of them. Meanwhile the Warlord is priced akin to 40k Repulsors / Gorkanauts, because typical armies will use them as a supporting unit rather than a core unit.
That would actually go against fluff where WARLORDS are actually most numerous. Reavers being more ancient they have technology that's harder to replicate than the warlord that's newer and not having quite as fancy technology as reaver. Reaver class technology on warlord sized titan would be superior to the warlord.
Every bit of fluff I've ever read says the Reaver is far more numerous than the Warlord, not the other way round.
That would actually go against fluff where WARLORDS are actually most numerous. Reavers being more ancient they have technology that's harder to replicate than the warlord that's newer and not having quite as fancy technology as reaver. Reaver class technology on warlord sized titan would be superior to the warlord.
Fluffwise that's highly dependent on the titan legion. Some prefer smaller titans and therefore have few, if any, Warlords.
Gamewise, it's a very bad idea to focus mainly on Warlords except in specific situations as they're most vulnerable to being outmaneuvered.
There's no reason to think Warlords are the core unit for this game.
BrianDavion wrote: I don't disbelive you but I've not been able to find anything beyond vague referances on a wiki about the reaver being an older Titan. whats the source on that info? I'd like to be able to expand my knowledge
I've found it in the 2003 Epic: Armageddon book:
"The Reaver class Battle Titan pre-dates even the mighty Warlord Battle Titan, though the date of its original manufacture is kept hidden within the deepest sealed archives on Mars and known to a handful of Magos in the Titan Legions"
I don't disbelive you but I've not been able to find anything beyond vague referances on a wiki about the reaver being an older Titan. whats the source on that info? I'd like to be able to expand my knowledge
Original Adeptus Titanicus. Specifcally either Codex Titanicus or White Dwarf 110. They are generally explained to be rarer than the Warlords. Warlords are considered the main line Battle Titans with Reavers operating in a specific Tactical niche mixing speed and firepower.
I'm really hoping that FW starts really developing titan lore, I'll admit some dissappointment, I was hoping the AT rulebook would have a degree of info on titans on par with a 40k codex has on it's factions.
Nurglitch wrote: That was back when the Warlords were plastic and the Reavers were a metal kit.
Indeed. It's all we've ever had. The various flavours of Epic as well as the odd snippet and black library story. Nothing has really contradicted anything up to this point.
tneva82 wrote: That would actually go against fluff where WARLORDS are actually most numerous. Reavers being more ancient they have technology that's harder to replicate than the warlord that's newer and not having quite as fancy technology as reaver. Reaver class technology on warlord sized titan would be superior to the warlord.
It could be that the reason Reavers are so rare "today" is that so many of them perished in the Horus Heresy - which by all accounts really decimated the Legios.
tneva82 wrote: That would actually go against fluff where WARLORDS are actually most numerous. Reavers being more ancient they have technology that's harder to replicate than the warlord that's newer and not having quite as fancy technology as reaver. Reaver class technology on warlord sized titan would be superior to the warlord.
It could be that the reason Reavers are so rare "today" is that so many of them perished in the Horus Heresy - which by all accounts really decimated the Legios.
And they were apparently more than decimated at that!
Nurglitch wrote: That was back when the Warlords were plastic and the Reavers were a metal kit.
Point being? Nothing contradicts it. Why start contradicting good valid fluff just for fun of it
For the same reason GW decided to push the weak "Dark Imperium" fluff with its "bigger and more powerful and more purer Space Marines". Sell more models.
GW don't care about the fluff, they care about the $$$.
Nurglitch wrote: That was back when the Warlords were plastic and the Reavers were a metal kit.
Point being? Nothing contradicts it. Why start contradicting good valid fluff just for fun of it
For the same reason GW decided to push the weak "Dark Imperium" fluff with its "bigger and more powerful and more purer Space Marines". Sell more models.
GW don't care about the fluff, they care about the $$$.
boy someone's assuming. the point is that fluff is old and dtates back to a time when an aweful lot of stuff had been retconned etc. thus holding onto it as garnteed is a bad idea because they could change it simply to make it fall more in line with the setting as it's evolved since the 80s. We dunno if it's changed or not. we simply should not accept that fluff from the 2nd edition era is nesscarily gonna stay true.
Nurglitch wrote: That was back when the Warlords were plastic and the Reavers were a metal kit.
Point being? Nothing contradicts it. Why start contradicting good valid fluff just for fun of it
For the same reason GW decided to push the weak "Dark Imperium" fluff with its "bigger and more powerful and more purer Space Marines". Sell more models.
GW don't care about the fluff, they care about the $$$.
boy someone's assuming. the point is that fluff is old and dtates back to a time when an aweful lot of stuff had been retconned etc. thus holding onto it as garnteed is a bad idea because they could change it simply to make it fall more in line with the setting as it's evolved since the 80s. We dunno if it's changed or not. we simply should not accept that fluff from the 2nd edition era is nesscarily gonna stay true.
No, but until it has been contradicted, it still holds true.
Important note when building the Reaver- make sure to pay attention to which shoe goes on which leg. I paid more attention to lining up the toe sockets on my fist one and had to crack it apart to get the feet the right way around. Oops.
Nurglitch wrote: That was back when the Warlords were plastic and the Reavers were a metal kit.
Point being? Nothing contradicts it. Why start contradicting good valid fluff just for fun of it
For the same reason GW decided to push the weak "Dark Imperium" fluff with its "bigger and more powerful and more purer Space Marines". Sell more models.
GW don't care about the fluff, they care about the $$$.
boy someone's assuming. the point is that fluff is old and dtates back to a time when an aweful lot of stuff had been retconned etc. thus holding onto it as garnteed is a bad idea because they could change it simply to make it fall more in line with the setting as it's evolved since the 80s. We dunno if it's changed or not. we simply should not accept that fluff from the 2nd edition era is nesscarily gonna stay true.
No, but until it has been contradicted, it still holds true.
Important note when building the Reaver- make sure to pay attention to which shoe goes on which leg. I paid more attention to lining up the toe sockets on my fist one and had to crack it apart to get the feet the right way around. Oops.
thanks for the advice.
as for if it's contridicted thats why I'd really like to see some more fluff, One thing I loved about Battletech was the Technical Readout sourcebooks. I'd LOOVE to see something like that in a book, although with only 3 titans we'd need it to be part of something bigger
BrianDavion wrote: One thing I loved about Battletech was the Technical Readout sourcebooks. I'd LOOVE to see something like that in a book, although with only 3 titans we'd need it to be part of something bigger
Given that it wounds be a fairly small amount of material this is exactly the sort of thing that white dwarf ought to be good for.
BrianDavion wrote: One thing I loved about Battletech was the Technical Readout sourcebooks. I'd LOOVE to see something like that in a book, although with only 3 titans we'd need it to be part of something bigger
Given that it wounds be a fairly small amount of material this is exactly the sort of thing that white dwarf ought to be good for.
They have said that they plan to release other titans for the game, so perhaps when that happens there will be a corresponding book with some extra fluff. (Or at least I hope so)
BrianDavion wrote: One thing I loved about Battletech was the Technical Readout sourcebooks. I'd LOOVE to see something like that in a book, although with only 3 titans we'd need it to be part of something bigger
Given that it wounds be a fairly small amount of material this is exactly the sort of thing that white dwarf ought to be good for.
Maybe, or bundle it with some other things, one thing I'd LOVE to see Black Library do are dedicated sourcebooks for 40k.
Maybe, or bundle it with some other things, one thing I'd LOVE to see Black Library do are dedicated sourcebooks for 40k.
Oh yes please. No frills rule books for gaming and proper tomes for background would be great. While the HH black books are lovely products, they are no fun to lug around until the relevant red books get updated.
On a modelling note, I hadn't realised until mine arrived that the Reaver head is on the weapon sprue. Fingers crossed for some alternate designs in the future.
Well, I have my Reaver on the way. Just waiting for Warhounds to be unleashed so I can get those. It will be good if that's next month, give my wallet some time to recover.
I'm thinking it will be a while before I pick up a Warlord - probably wait until at least the additional weapons are available for it.
So, is the Warhound the last thing we'll be getting for AT for the time being? Has anyone heard of anything in the wings afterward?
Stormonu wrote: Well, I have my Reaver on the way. Just waiting for Warhounds to be unleashed so I can get those. It will be good if that's next month, give my wallet some time to recover.
I'm thinking it will be a while before I pick up a Warlord - probably wait until at least the additional weapons are available for it.
So, is the Warhound the last thing we'll be getting for AT for the time being? Has anyone heard of anything in the wings afterward?
Well in the book there is the plasma annihilator and turbo/laser carapace weapons for the warlord shown in the rules section, hoping those are plastic. Other than weapon upgrades I don't know, they did mention a beta garmon campaign book. I would imagine if the game continues to make money they would do cerastus knights and more variants of existing stuff, if not re envision some older titans.
Stormonu wrote: Well, I have my Reaver on the way. Just waiting for Warhounds to be unleashed so I can get those. It will be good if that's next month, give my wallet some time to recover.
I'm thinking it will be a while before I pick up a Warlord - probably wait until at least the additional weapons are available for it.
So, is the Warhound the last thing we'll be getting for AT for the time being? Has anyone heard of anything in the wings afterward?
Nothing definite, I think. All we got from the designers at various cons and the Warhammerfest, is that they have designs for the Cerastus knights underway, and obviously the extra weapons have been designed. They still weren't sure in may, whether they would be allwoed to get them out as extra sprues, or as FW resin. My money would be on resin, mainly because that is the model Bloodbowl and Necromunda have followed, but I would love to be wrong.
Another point that came to me: While it is frustrating to wait for the extra weapons packs, I think that in the long run, armor modularity is a really cool concept. Having armor parts for loyalist and traitor titans available from day one is great, and armor plating is harder to go back and change on our finished titans, than adding a different weapon is.
Xanthos wrote: ...the extra weapons have been designed. They still weren't sure in may, whether they would be allwoed to get them out as extra sprues, or as FW resin. My money would be on resin, mainly because that is the model Bloodbowl and Necromunda have followed, but I would love to be wrong.
There was a video taken when they first unveiled the box contents at an open day earlier this year, and on it one of the game designers says that most weapon options will be done in plastic with only rarer exceptions like the Warp Missile being in resin. I would totally expect to see other 'C' sprues for the Reaver and Warlord, with another set of weapons and alternative head design.
Beyond that they've also mentioned other Knights, Ordo Sinister psi-titans and the precursor design to the old Epic Slaanesh scout titans. I've also been reading Imperator this week (which was released relatively recently) and interestingly that mentions a 'Warrior' class titan fighting alongside the main three. Could be something for the future.
Nurglitch wrote: That was back when the Warlords were plastic and the Reavers were a metal kit.
Perhaps the next edition will have a line to the effect of "once rarer than Warlords, rediscovered plasti-luminum STCs have allowed for increasing Reaver production"
Automatically Appended Next Post: On a more serious note, I wonder about the future.
We know the next releases will be:
Warhounds
Extra weapons
And then...
They say they don't want to get into tanks and infantry and go full epic, so let's rule that out for the moment.
That leaves:
New Imperial titans and Knights
Chaos mutant variants
Xeno Titans (Eldar and Ork designs would be essentially unchanged from 30k to 40k)
War Engines (Leviathans, Ordinatus)
Or, close it down and move on to the big Manowar relaunch...
Assuming GW intend to support Titanicus into 2019 and beyond, its gonna have to be either Xenos Titans or "new" Imperial Titans. My money would be on more Imperial stuff. I just hope its not all via FW.
xttz wrote: There's not much on the schedule, only really Spiel in Germany which tends to be more board- and card-game focused like Gencon. It's the sort of place where they'd announce content like Space Adventures, Munchkin or Blitz Bowl.
There's also a WHW 40k open day at the end of November.
Elbows wrote: Not only does $60 seem "okay" (I view it solely at max discount which I could find it at), but it makes the $110 price on the Warlord that much more galling/stupid to me.
It's not as obvious from the photo above, but the Reaver model really does have about half the mass of a Warlord and the sprues seem to be half the size too. It's basically half a Warlord for half the price.
I also have a theory that the Reaver is priced akin to an Intercessor squad in 40k because it fulfills a similar role as the main battleline unit and you're likely to have the most of them. Meanwhile the Warlord is priced akin to 40k Repulsors / Gorkanauts, because typical armies will use them as a supporting unit rather than a core unit.
That would actually go against fluff where WARLORDS are actually most numerous. Reavers being more ancient they have technology that's harder to replicate than the warlord that's newer and not having quite as fancy technology as reaver. Reaver class technology on warlord sized titan would be superior to the warlord.
Thats the 40k fluff. This is 30k - in 30k Reavers are more numerous than the Warlords and act as the mainstay of the titan legions.
At least thats what ive been able to gather from the more recent fluff.
Lets assume they switch to the same "1 per-quarter(but sometimes more like 1 per-third)" release models as the other SGs.
-Warlord upgrade sprue.
-Reaver upgrade sprue.
-Warhound upgrade sprue.
-Questoris upgrade sprue.
-Cerastus Knights.
-Acastus Knights.
-The new GW bigknights.
-Proto-Subjugator and other "precursor" Imperial versions of later Chaos Titans.
-New Reaver-scale Titan/s.
-New Warlord-scale Titan/s.
Those are just the likely Imperial releases, and they could easily stretch that out to two year's worth if they wanted to. I'm hoping they don't, but they could.
We might start getting explicitly Chaotic releases around the climax of the new Siege of Terra series(*sigh*), though who knows when that will be.
I suspect anyone hoping for Xenos sooner than late 2020 is in for a disappointment, though I'd be happy to be wrong on that.
I suspect they'll do a single additional knight kit with 2 of the less common bodies and a bunch of alternate weapons. I can't imagine them doing separate sprues for all the different niche knights.
we can also expect additional books with additional Legio rules and Maniples. For example I've seen at least one Maniple that employs 3 reavers and 2 warhounds, it's possiable that FW will just tell us to use a Axiom Maniple with Legio Gryphonicus rules but I doubt it.
Regarding Reaver's fluff, the Reaver is still eistablished in the fluff as being older but well nothing has been offically chanegd about it being more common I think Mostly because the Warlord has been so rare when depicted in FW products (due to it not having ahd a model until VERY VERY recently)
Consider for example the Titan Task force from Siege of Vraks, a Warp Runners force from M 41
Spoiler:
A mix of Reavers and Warhounds. As I said the real reason for this has been simply the avaliability of warhound and reaver titan models but no warlords until VERY recently. but we've got 2 or so decades of examples of titan deployments with no warlords but plenty of reavers. Making Warlords more common would IMHO be at odds with what we've seen
On my way to bed, so haven't got time to link the pics, but shamelessly nicking this post from the LOTR thread with a link to a Battle Bunnies blog with dribble worthy Warhound pics..
Nurglitch wrote: That was back when the Warlords were plastic and the Reavers were a metal kit.
Perhaps the next edition will have a line to the effect of "once rarer than Warlords, rediscovered plasti-luminum STCs have allowed for increasing Reaver production"
Or why not keep it as it is? What's wrong with the current fluff? More interesting actually that biggest isn't always most rare or technologically more advanced. Fits nicely with 40k's degrading tech idea that it's the medium one that's technologically most advanced but tech lost resulting in size bigger being done on inferior tech and thus better only due to size.
Nurglitch wrote: That was back when the Warlords were plastic and the Reavers were a metal kit.
Perhaps the next edition will have a line to the effect of "once rarer than Warlords, rediscovered plasti-luminum STCs have allowed for increasing Reaver production"
Or why not keep it as it is? What's wrong with the current fluff? More interesting actually that biggest isn't always most rare or technologically more advanced. Fits nicely with 40k's degrading tech idea that it's the medium one that's technologically most advanced but tech lost resulting in size bigger being done on inferior tech and thus better only due to size.
Because it's needlessly convoluted, offers nothing of any real interest fluff wise, and won't represent the reality we'll see on the tabletop.
I mean it's literally a single throw-away line to explain the fact that the old core box only had warlord titans in it. Let it go.
Nurglitch wrote: That was back when the Warlords were plastic and the Reavers were a metal kit.
Perhaps the next edition will have a line to the effect of "once rarer than Warlords, rediscovered plasti-luminum STCs have allowed for increasing Reaver production"
Or why not keep it as it is? What's wrong with the current fluff? More interesting actually that biggest isn't always most rare or technologically more advanced. Fits nicely with 40k's degrading tech idea that it's the medium one that's technologically most advanced but tech lost resulting in size bigger being done on inferior tech and thus better only due to size.
Because it's needlessly convoluted, offers nothing of any real interest fluff wise, and won't represent the reality we'll see on the tabletop.
I mean it's literally a single throw-away line to explain the fact that the old core box only had warlord titans in it. Let it go.
Opposite is throwaway single line saying opposite. Whopedoo. You waste more time changing when there is nothing to be GAINED by changing it. You are wasting time and gain nothing compared to not changing things. You actually lose unusual fluff tidbit and go for more generic dime in a dozen version.
This is the most recent (and still in print) fluff I can find on Titan Legion composition:
The Collegia Titanica came to rate the strength of each Titan Legion according to a complex formula that allotted each a Militaris grade. First tier designations ranged from 'primus' to 'denarii', with a range of further clausal numerical definitions describing the Legio 's specific capabilities, specialisations and other characteristics. Though it rarely told the whole truth, the most obvious measure of a Titan Legion 's strength was ever the number of god-engines it could field, with the largest maintaining as many as 200-300, while the smallest might be able to muster barely a dozen. In reality however, the mixture of Titan classes was a far more reliable indicator of potency than raw numbers. Few indeed could field the colossal lmperator class, while almost all fielded significant numbers of Warhound Scout Titans, the lightest common engine, with the ubiquitous Warlord and the standard Battle Titan, a proven and powerful design which made up the bulk of most Legios' main strength. There were many other classes besides, notably the ancient Reaver and several Warlord variants such as the Nemesis and Nightgaunt and other, rarer chassis whose designs such as the Apocalypse, Carnivore and Komodo were unique.
Many Titan Legions had a particular mix of god-engines they preferred to commit to battle, exemplifying their own specific battle doctrines. Legio Audax, also known as the 'Ember Wolves ', for example, fielded a large number of Warhound Scout Titans, employing them as fast-moving hunting packs that were fearsomely effective at harrying and bringing down far larger enemy engines. Most Legios however, sought to maintain a balanced and flexible force able to prosecute a wide range of operations and confront many different foes.
The Reaver is a Battle Titan and a mainstay of the great Titan Legions. It is smaller and lighter than the massive Warlord class, but is still a vast machine, protected by thick adamantine armour plates and carries devastating firepower. A truly ancient design. each Titan Legion maintains an active number of Reavers
of various patterns and, in particular, the Mars pattern Reaver is said to the the oldest of all Titans forged on the Red Planet, its origins long predating even the Great Crusade.
Formosa wrote: If we are lucky we may see the “tri” legged imperial titans
If we're really lucky, that ridiculous nonsense will go back where it should have remained in the first place instead of leaking out - the dark corners of the numpty author's brain.
The Mechanicus/m doesn't need any more lazy, cringe-inducing "lul, War of the Worlds innit, geddit, cus they're Martians, geddit, geddit, haha, ain't we funny" pish, and Imperial Titans are and should remain bipedal.
I think the problem is that a competing product is doing Martian Tripods as straight Martian Tripods. I know 40k used to be a generic mish-mash, and still is in a lot of ways, but I think it's also become its own thing and doesn't really need to loot pop-culture for content. There's all sorts of places they can go with their own IP.
Nurglitch wrote: I think the problem is that a competing product is doing Martian Tripods as straight Martian Tripods. I know 40k used to be a generic mish-mash, and still is in a lot of ways, but I think it's also become its own thing and doesn't really need to loot pop-culture for content. There's all sorts of places they can go with their own IP.
Well that's the thing though - Titans are the GW version of "Martians use giant walking thingies" already. Going all the way to straight-up "it's an actual tripod" takes it from homage/inside joke to that guy everyone knows who's said something they're convinced is super witty and will explain to you at length exactly why it's witty and you should be laughing(because, inevitably, you're not).
I also don't see how it would work with the Mechanicum/Titanicus aesthetic - the only tripedal walkers I've seen that looked any good have a very rounded aesthetic with long flexible limbs. Ones that have a boxier, more "humanoid with an extra leg" style just look daft to my eye. There's a reason there's pretty much no tripedal(as in, "has three actual legs", not cheating nonsense like "well sometimes they rest on their tail a bit") creatures in nature.
I wouldn't mind seeing a Punisher class just to see how GW would handle a tri legged walker. But they have been leaving fluff hooks for new classes of Titan for years. Apparently one of the more recent HH novels mentions a Warrior class Titan that's smaller than a Warhound. Although from reading interviews with some of the BL authors a lot of things are initially just put in for flavour. But they can find there way to the table top(this is what happened with the SM Mastadon).
Yodrin and I are at complete odds on the tri-walker (we’ve mentioned it before). I’d love to see some tri-walkers as Admech, though an Eldar or a crazy Ork version would be interesting to me as well.
Mostly, I’d like to see a titan with leg structure akin to the Admech onager - something crab or scorpion like, maybe three, four or six-limbed. Maybe something that looks like the Goliath/Crabgunner from Battletech/Fang of the Sun Dougram or the Scorpion.
Nurglitch wrote: I think the problem is that a competing product is doing Martian Tripods as straight Martian Tripods. I know 40k used to be a generic mish-mash, and still is in a lot of ways, but I think it's also become its own thing and doesn't really need to loot pop-culture for content. There's all sorts of places they can go with their own IP.
Well that's the thing though - Titans are the GW version of "Martians use giant walking thingies" already.
I thought Titans were GW's answer to Battletech's mecha craze of the 80's?
Speaking of Battletech they have a tripod `Mech that doesn't look too bad called the Ares.
I don't think the aesthetics is the problem...the complete lack of ability to move on three legs is the problem. There is nothing in the physical world stopping that Battletech mech from toppling forward toward the leg which is lifted...space magic?
The only three legged animals in the world are basically maimed dogs and cats who have a lengthy torso and gallop rather than walk really. An erect robot body would have more or less zero ability to move with three legs.
Elbows wrote: I don't think the aesthetics is the problem...the complete lack of ability to move on three legs is the problem. There is nothing in the physical world stopping that Battletech mech from toppling forward toward the leg which is lifted...space magic?
The only three legged animals in the world are basically maimed dogs and cats who have a lengthy torso and gallop rather than walk really. An erect robot body would have more or less zero ability to move with three legs.
There’s nothing stopping a two legged Titan from toppling the moment it lifts a leg either, at that scale.
Elbows wrote: I don't think the aesthetics is the problem...the complete lack of ability to move on three legs is the problem. There is nothing in the physical world stopping that Battletech mech from toppling forward toward the leg which is lifted...space magic?
The only three legged animals in the world are basically maimed dogs and cats who have a lengthy torso and gallop rather than walk really. An erect robot body would have more or less zero ability to move with three legs.
Except modern bipedal robots already move by effectively falling forwards and catching themselves, they are using gravity.
Elbows wrote: I don't think the aesthetics is the problem...the complete lack of ability to move on three legs is the problem. There is nothing in the physical world stopping that Battletech mech from toppling forward toward the leg which is lifted...space magic?
Space Magic is part and parcel to 40k. And Battletech. And really most sci-fi.
And aesthetics were being discussed. The Ares is not a spindle-legged Martian tripod. It is a bulky, physics-rejecting block of guns and armor that spin-walks its way through your lines belching fire and raining death. Something like that is perfect for IoM.
Elbows wrote: I don't think the aesthetics is the problem...the complete lack of ability to move on three legs is the problem. There is nothing in the physical world stopping that Battletech mech from toppling forward toward the leg which is lifted...space magic?
Space Magic is part and parcel to 40k. And Battletech. And really most sci-fi.
And aesthetics were being discussed. The Ares is not a spindle-legged Martian tripod. It is a bulky, physics-rejecting block of guns and armor that spin-walks its way through your lines belching fire and raining death. Something like that is perfect for IoM.
It's worth noting no one in Battletech really likes the Ares, it only exists because wizkids put out a model of it,
IMHO a three legged walker would work best with a forward leg that acts as a stablizer. something like the AT-AP from star wars
Spoiler:
where the third leg is a stablization leg that folds up when the walker is moving.
go with a 3 legged walker design like that, maybe have a giant turreted weapon on the top and you have a design that is both visually distinct, and one whose design suggests a role (a long range artillery unit)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MajorWesJanson wrote: Or the potential answer is that is not a tripod, but has two main legs, with a third that it uses to brace when firing super heavy weapons
Not that I think that it would fit with the current aesthetic but there was a Star Wars walker on three legs that was pretty cool. I guess it folds the middle one away when walking but serves as a stabilizer when it is firing...
Commander Cain wrote: Not that I think that it would fit with the current aesthetic but there was a Star Wars walker on three legs that was pretty cool. I guess it folds the middle one away when walking but serves as a stabilizer when it is firing...
... that was literally exactly what I posted heh
my ideal would be basicly a titan with a stalizer leg that had a massive Macro canon on it's back.. or maybe several.
something like the MAC III from Macross might be a fun idea
Azreal13 wrote: Does anyone remember when this thread was for news and rumors about Adeptus Titanicus?
It still is, right now what we know for a fact is that GW/FW might release titans briefly hinted at but never actually described, we know a 3 legged titan has been described and we are thus theorizing about how it might work.
Azreal13 wrote: Does anyone remember when this thread was for news and rumors about Adeptus Titanicus?
It still is, right now what we know for a fact is that GW/FW might release titans briefly hinted at but never actually described, we know a 3 legged titan has been described and we are thus theorizing about how it might work.
I'm pretty sure tenuous speculation is still considered OT in an N+R thread.
Just hope we see weapon expansions sooner rather than later. It’s holding me off from fully committing, as I really want to play with the different weapon traits.
Warlord variants Nemesis and Nightgaunt and Apocalypse, Carnivore and Komodo.
And the Warmonger too, right?
That's mentioned elsewhere (I think the text xttz quotes is from Horus Heresy book 5, near the end).
Interestingly, the Nemesis, while quoted here as a Warlord variant is described elsewhere in the same book as an Emperor titan. I can only assume it's a significant upgrade from the basic Warlord (or that the Warlord is the top end of the Battle Titan category and Nemesis is the bottom end of the Emperor titans).
I went through the Horus Heresy black books the other day ...
HH1 p139 (Legio Mortis)
Imperator
Nemesis (later described in HH5 as both an Emperor titan (p118) and a Warlord variant (p258))
Apocalypse (these three are described as amongst the most powerful classes of titan)
Nightgaunt (later described in HH5 p258 as a Warlord variant)
HH2 p157 (Legio Atarus)
Carnivore (the Nightgaunt and Carnivore are "mid-classes", comparable to the Reaver)
HH3 p157 (Legio Fureans)
Reviler (light titan, developed and used by Legio Fureans as a "mobile inferno cannon platform" to replace the use of heavier knight chassis among the Legio's retainers
Deathbringer Warlord
HH4 p139 (Legio Tempestus)
Maines
HH5 p118 (Legio Praesagius)
Mirage
HH p258
Komodo
HH7 p133 (Ordo Sinister)
Warlord-Sinister (only 25, used by the Ordo Sinister)
Automatically Appended Next Post: I played my first game with Reavers last night - My Warlord got taken out by being punched repeatedly in the head by a Reaver titan. It wasn't pretty.
Malika2 wrote: Wasn't there mention of a three legged Titan in one of the Beast Arises novels?
Nah a Gatling Warlord saw the horde and got excited.
Apparently it was called a Punisher Class, armed with an underslung Sun Fury Plasma Annihilator.
That would heavily back the stabiliser leg theory. Essentially a variant ordinatus, designed primarily to move and fire one massive gun, possibly with a carapace mount as well.
That's mentioned elsewhere (I think the text xttz quotes is from Horus Heresy book 5, near the end).
Interestingly, the Nemesis, while quoted here as a Warlord variant is described elsewhere in the same book as an Emperor titan. I can only assume it's a significant upgrade from the basic Warlord (or that the Warlord is the top end of the Battle Titan category and Nemesis is the bottom end of the Emperor titans).
I went through the Horus Heresy black books the other day ...
HH1 p139 (Legio Mortis)
Imperator
Nemesis (later described in HH5 as both an Emperor titan (p118) and a Warlord variant (p258))
Apocalypse (these three are described as amongst the most powerful classes of titan)
Nightgaunt (later described in HH5 p258 as a Warlord variant)
HH2 p157 (Legio Atarus)
Carnivore (the Nightgaunt and Carnivore are "mid-classes", comparable to the Reaver)
HH3 p157 (Legio Fureans)
Reviler (light titan, developed and used by Legio Fureans as a "mobile inferno cannon platform" to replace the use of heavier knight chassis among the Legio's retainers
Deathbringer Warlord
HH4 p139 (Legio Tempestus)
Maines
HH5 p118 (Legio Praesagius)
Mirage
HH p258
Komodo
HH7 p133 (Ordo Sinister)
Warlord-Sinister (only 25, used by the Ordo Sinister)
Thank you for that list - very cool!
I forgot about the Psyker Titans too - looking forward to those.
Really, really want all the Eldar stuff too, soon, hopefuly. Phantoms, Warlocks and the various Eldar Knights.
Regarding Titans and walking, I figured that was one of the reasons why they had a plasma reactor, because they needed vast amounts of power for their suspensors and whatnot as well as power-thirsty void shield generators and weapons.
It's also something that I've occasionally wondered about Star Wars, in that they seem to have essentially unlimited anti-grav, and its something they'd have to use in walkers, but what the advantages might be for walkers, skimmers, and weird hybrids aside from rule-of-cool and whatnot.
And how where the Reavers able to close with your Warlord?
We had a Warlord, a Reaver (mine with twin laser blasters, his with Gatling blaster and fist) and three knights each. There was a lot of tall buildings blocking LOS, and I’m crap, that’s how he got me.
Reavers with fists are designed to sneak and duck and get hit a few times and then strike hard in close combat. I think that their validity will vary a lot depending on the terrain and board setup you use.
If its dense with tall buildings then a reaver with close combat weapons is going to be viable because it will have cover to allow it to advance without just being ganged up on by warlords and other ranged units.
If you're playing with a lot of short terrain that might hide knights but not reavers; or you're playing on a very open battle field then a Reaver is going to find it a lot harder to get into close combat without taking damage and regretting the lack of a ranged weapon itself instead of the fist.
And how where the Reavers able to close with your Warlord?
We had a Warlord, a Reaver (mine with twin laser blasters, his with Gatling blaster and fist) and three knights each. There was a lot of tall buildings blocking LOS, and I’m crap, that’s how he got me.
Makes sense!
Good to see that terrain will really be a thing we'll need lots of - but I have yet to see an 'official' GW table that has had enough!
Another thing to remember, if you run Legio Gryphonicus and swap a Warhound out for a Reaver that Reaver can be upgraded so that it always gets to move and turn with it's boosted stats without pushing the reacter. Give it the move twice order it'll get across the table in a couple of turns. I made the mistake of ignoring it in my last game and it charged my warlord turn 3 and then proceeded to punch it into oblivion.
Imateria wrote: Another thing to remember, if you run Legio Gryphonicus and swap a Warhound out for a Reaver that Reaver can be upgraded so that it always gets to move and turn with it's boosted stats without pushing the reacter. Give it the move twice order it'll get across the table in a couple of turns. I made the mistake of ignoring it in my last game and it charged my warlord turn 3 and then proceeded to punch it into oblivion.
never ever EVER ignore your enemies flankers. I've yet to play a game of AT but generally speaking from experiance with similer games, if you ever get a good clear shot on a light flanker unit you take it. you wanna put them down before they can position themselves
Imateria wrote: Another thing to remember, if you run Legio Gryphonicus and swap a Warhound out for a Reaver that Reaver can be upgraded so that it always gets to move and turn with it's boosted stats without pushing the reacter. Give it the move twice order it'll get across the table in a couple of turns. I made the mistake of ignoring it in my last game and it charged my warlord turn 3 and then proceeded to punch it into oblivion.
never ever EVER ignore your enemies flankers. I've yet to play a game of AT but generally speaking from experiance with similer games, if you ever get a good clear shot on a light flanker unit you take it. you wanna put them down before they can position themselves
This.
Sure, your opponent may be able to deal with Fisty Reaver before it gets punchy. So work with it. They can’t really allow it to get close, so exploit that. Simple one is a ‘death or glory’ affair, but there’s many other ways one can pull it off.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Fist genuinely seems wasteful on a Warlord. Just too slow and stumbly.
especially given the limits of carapiece weapons, Warlords IMHO work best at long range. in an ideal world you'd find a good hill top to park it on and rain down fire...
Actually that'd be a REALLY good table. an elevated position in the centre. with thick terrain around it,
What Legions you expect to see in Titandeath supplement?
3 per side, so... Nova Guard, Imperial Hunters and Firebrands (or Warp Runners) for loyalists and God Breakers, Death Stalkers and Death's Heads (or Tiger Eyes) for traitors?
Four Legions with new fluff and color schemes and two already existing.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Fist genuinely seems wasteful on a Warlord. Just too slow and stumbly.
Doesn't seem so when your Warlord get pummeled by the other guy
Not saying every Warlord should equip fist, but mixing thing up is good, especially when you know the enemy will be hitting you in CC, and you're unable to provide support to your warlord.
for those who like a whole maniple of big guys, having one warlord with a fist placed to move in on a Reaver who fancies his chances might be worth the loss of one gun...
So the Legions with transfers and then a high profile one from the books.. seems a good guess, although the inclusion of Legio Tempestus in the first book makes that stand out a bit as an oddity. I always thought it odd that they gave us the rules for it but Legio Mortis is being used along side Gryphonicus as the poster boy Legion.)
that said I'm not sure they'll wanna put ALL the high profile legios into one supplement, as that could hurt long term sourcebook sales.
I'm painting Legio Atarus so I expect they'll get rules and I'll hate them (this is just how my luck runs)
I think things like fists on warlords might become far more powerful when other factions join in - especially things like Chaos which have multiple types of close combat weapons and will likely have tricks to get up close and personal. Making it far more worthwhile to take your own power close combat weapon even on a Warlord Class titan.
From what I hear a fist Warlord is very good in missions that require holding the midfield. There’s one guy I’ve seen swearing by a fist/sunfury/laser blasters.
Bell of Lost Souls is reporting on some upcoming stuff Apparently suggesting a lot of knights, link to the article is here
Apparently in Q4 2018-Q1 2019 they're hoping to get the Knight weapons Set out, as well as kits of the Dominus, Armangier, Ceratus, and Porphrian class knights.
take it with serious salt but thought I'd mention it.
I can believe Titan and knight weapons followed by Cerastus in the mid term future, but I can assure you that having been at a recent open day and directly asking about knight variants, the guy at the stall answered they have no plans for dominus and armiger.
I reckon that we'll see a combined weapon upgrade sprue soon - Weapons for the Knights, Warlord and Reaver on one sprue or in one box. And the new weapons are pretty much already to go judging from the photos from the Adeptus Titanicus rulebook.
BrianDavion wrote: Bell of Lost Souls is reporting on some upcoming stuff
Just to save everyone the click, there's nothing of substance here as usual. It's a bunch of speculation based on things we already know so far, such as what the game designers have said in public or the unreleased upgrades we've seen pictures of.
BrianDavion wrote: Bell of Lost Souls is reporting on some upcoming stuff
Just to save everyone the click, there's nothing of substance here as usual. It's a bunch of speculation based on things we already know so far, such as what the game designers have said in public or the unreleased upgrades we've seen pictures of.
Heresy Online? (Is that place still up and running?)
I move at such a slow pace (Warlord, no reactor overload ability) that I'll probably wait until the weapon sprues are released before I start building/painting my AT stuff...
I've only built and base coated the chassis of one warlord. I need to start painting the armour plates, but I am putting it off as I need to learn how to paint flames, and I want to get it right... :/
Mysterio wrote: Heresy Online? (Is that place still up and running?)
I move at such a slow pace (Warlord, no reactor overload ability) that I'll probably wait until the weapon sprues are released before I start building/painting my AT stuff...
Me too! I'm all "look the God Engines walk!*"
*but only very slowly, and they're probably not going to get here any time soon.
zedmeister wrote: I reckon that we'll see a combined weapon upgrade sprue soon - Weapons for the Knights, Warlord and Reaver on one sprue or in one box. And the new weapons are pretty much already to go judging from the photos from the Adeptus Titanicus rulebook.
Going by the sizes and composition of the weapon sprues, best guess for the upgrade ones is:
Warlord- mars beta head, sunfury plasma destructor, arioch claw with vulcan bolter, twin laser blaster carapace mounts.
Reaver- alternate head (possibly the mk iv marine style one off the old metal) carapace turbolaser, volcano cannon, melta cannon, chainfist.
zedmeister wrote: I reckon that we'll see a combined weapon upgrade sprue soon - Weapons for the Knights, Warlord and Reaver on one sprue or in one box. And the new weapons are pretty much already to go judging from the photos from the Adeptus Titanicus rulebook.
Going by the sizes and composition of the weapon sprues, best guess for the upgrade ones is:
Warlord- mars beta head, sunfury plasma destructor, arioch claw with vulcan bolter, twin laser blaster carapace mounts.
Reaver- alternate head (possibly the mk iv marine style one off the old metal) carapace turbolaser, volcano cannon, melta cannon, chainfist.
It would be a shame if volcano cannon got priority over carapace megabolter: the laser blaster and melta cannon kinda already cover it’s niche thoroughly between them.
RedFurioso wrote: What Legions you expect to see in Titandeath supplement?
Huh?
Where did this rumor come from?
You been hiding under a stone? The Titandeath on Beta Garmon has been a confirmed black book for quite some time - have a scan of the OP rumour entries. It is rumoured to include expanded campaign rules, loads of extra Legions and maniple lists. As well as glorious art
RedFurioso wrote: What Legions you expect to see in Titandeath supplement?
Huh?
Where did this rumor come from?
You been hiding under a stone? The Titandeath on Beta Garmon has been a confirmed black book for quite some time - have a scan of the OP rumour entries. It is rumoured to include expanded campaign rules, loads of extra Legions and maniple lists. As well as glorious art
hopefully ti does come out soonish. coming out along side the novel would be nice doubly so if we can order the novel and game book in one nifty pack (not likely but be awesome)
Overread wrote: Reavers with fists are designed to sneak and duck and get hit a few times and then strike hard in close combat. I think that their validity will vary a lot depending on the terrain and board setup you use.
If its dense with tall buildings then a reaver with close combat weapons is going to be viable because it will have cover to allow it to advance without just being ganged up on by warlords and other ranged units.
If you're playing with a lot of short terrain that might hide knights but not reavers; or you're playing on a very open battle field then a Reaver is going to find it a lot harder to get into close combat without taking damage and regretting the lack of a ranged weapon itself instead of the fist.
I will be going into this more but Fist Reavers are interesting. They are seeking to charge in close so the Vulcan is their favored carapace weapon but the Apoc can be better simply because they can shoot it while hiding.
Now the Fist Reaver Might not even care about shooting the shields on its garter as it will plan to get inside those shields anyways.
If you have followed my Titan Types, I see the Fist Reaver as a Brawler (no surprise there) and a Sweeper which means it protects the flanks and then flanks. It is a PERFECT unit to slap about an offending Warhound or two then Melta them to death allowing the knights to mop up.
Anywho, I just found this interesting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Imateria wrote: Another thing to remember, if you run Legio Gryphonicus and swap a Warhound out for a Reaver that Reaver can be upgraded so that it always gets to move and turn with it's boosted stats without pushing the reacter. Give it the move twice order it'll get across the table in a couple of turns. I made the mistake of ignoring it in my last game and it charged my warlord turn 3 and then proceeded to punch it into oblivion.
Did you take Thermal Mines with your Free Stratagem Points? You could hurt the legs with that and remove that boost
I'm painting Legio Atarus so I expect they'll get rules and I'll hate them (this is just how my luck runs)
Dont curse me like this!!! Atarus are my Loyalist legio and Legio Vulcanum are my traitors. I demo so I need dynamically different looking sources and the Olive green of Vulcanum goes well against the Red, White, and some black of Atarus
At least Atarus are going to get rules at some point as well as Knight Houses.
Formosa wrote: If we are lucky we may see the “tri” legged imperial titans
If we're really lucky, that ridiculous nonsense will go back where it should have remained in the first place instead of leaking out - the dark corners of the numpty author's brain.
The Mechanicus/m doesn't need any more lazy, cringe-inducing "lul, War of the Worlds innit, geddit, cus they're Martians, geddit, geddit, haha, ain't we funny" pish, and Imperial Titans are and should remain bipedal.
What about the rare Imperial "Pogo" class bouncing Titans produced on the feudal forge world of Hippity Hoppity Prime?
xttz wrote: Wait until he reads about the four-legged Warhound variants
Spoiler:
that I made up just now
I've heard legends about a class of secret covert titants, they all split into smaller titans, but when the need arises, they can come together, letting their powers combine....
zedmeister wrote: You been hiding under a stone? The Titandeath on Beta Garmon has been a confirmed black book for quite some time - have a scan of the OP rumour entries. It is rumoured to include expanded campaign rules, loads of extra Legions and maniple lists. As well as glorious art
Apparently so.
Thanks for the refresh on that - I'd completely forgotten about it.
Eumerin wrote: There was a four-legged knight, though. It was actually released for Epic.
(it was an Eldar knight...)
I would love for GW to bring the different Eldar Knights back in AT and 40K. They could easily get just as much as Imperial Knights. New versions of the Bright Stallions and Towering Destroyers, as well as more Wraith Knight variants that reference the old Fire gale models
People who say that a titans only focus leaves AT with too few units are silly. the potential to expand the roster is limitless, I can think of all sorts of fun ideas such as a large titan, the size of a warlord with thinner armor and a decent amount of speed, that mounts some close in weaponry, used for back alley mugging etc. a light "battle titan" the only limits are the creativity of FW. and this goes beyond just Imperial Titans too. we only have 2 (well 3 if you count the warlock as differnt) eldar titans, but they have to have more then that... and Orks well.. every Ork titan is differant, the skys the limit with the Orks. and then you have other races such as Tyranids who could really have an entire line of Bio-Titans, Necrons (who realisticly one would think would have some sort of answer to Eldar Titans) ... hell if Forge World can't think up ideas for Titans they can just hire me, I've got TONS of ideas.
Looking at FW's HH output, a lack of ideas for new stuff is probably not an issue. The game being successful enough to warrant expansion, and whether or not new stuff will be mostly via GW plastic or FW resin are the big question marks for me.
Hey! I have that Warden 1, Paladin 2 and Lancer 3!
That lancer three looks like it just walked off a comics page - imagine it colored like Marvin from Looney Toons...
So many strange and weird ideas from 1E. I would like to see some titan variety, primarily in the Warhound - Reaver size. I really hope we won't see many in the Warlord+ size; that size just feels too big for regular gaming and feels like it should be the top end (though I know the Emperator is even larger, I'd rather it was just left out for now - at least until the line has a lot more "medium" sized titans to it).
BrianDavion wrote: I'd not be suprised to see some of those things being mined for ideas. GW's been pretty heavily mining ideas from the rogue trader era of late
Most of those knights are pretty well mined so far. Paladin 1 and 2 merged are the questoris chassis. Lancer 1 and 3, especially 1, are now armigers. The carapace mount off warden 1 is on all questoris knights, warden 2 shifted into the acastus. Warden 3 seems to have merged with the epic lord of battle to become the new lord of skulls for khorne. Lancer 2 is just a very skinny death guard, and paladin 3 these days would fit in far better as part of the ork force.
BrianDavion wrote: I'd not be suprised to see some of those things being mined for ideas. GW's been pretty heavily mining ideas from the rogue trader era of late
Most of those knights are pretty well mined so far. Paladin 1 and 2 merged are the questoris chassis. Lancer 1 and 3, especially 1, are now armigers. The carapace mount off warden 1 is on all questoris knights, warden 2 shifted into the acastus. Warden 3 seems to have merged with the epic lord of battle to become the new lord of skulls for khorne. Lancer 2 is just a very skinny death guard, and paladin 3 these days would fit in far better as part of the ork force.
Paladin 3 reminds me a little of a Crab, or King Crab Battlemech from Battletech.
The volume of plastic is about the same as the reaver though, 3 sprues. Knowing GW they might mark it up simply cause it contains two models/units instead of one. 65-70usd would be ideal, 75 is a tad rough.
. We'll have to get a dedicated thread for it then!