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Post by: Chopstick
Oh god, look like the female Van Saar are forever stuck on the Hopscotch pose,
Please let the front plate/top be a separated piece, that pose is terrible.
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Post by: Haighus
Lovely models, I can't wait to see the conversions popping up round the web.
They could've put more effort into the photography though- the identical poses are almost all adjacent in the image, really makes it stand out...
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Post by: BrookM
Glad I'm not the only one bothered by the model placement. 
I'll be picking a set up for sure, they'll make for excellent Imperial Knight pilots.
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Post by: Haighus
Oooh, the big gun is a rad-cannon, not a plasma cannon. That explains the odd look.
I do like rad weapons, I am interested to see the rules.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
What a time to get into N17. I just bought everything on impluse... and now I know i'll want those Van Saar and GW3.
Do we have any insight into the "quality of life" improvements to the game GW3 claims to make?
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Post by: zedmeister
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:What a time to get into N17. I just bought everything on impluse... and now I know i'll want those Van Saar and GW3.
Do we have any insight into the "quality of life" improvements to the game GW3 claims to make?
Bionics perhaps?
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Post by: ImAGeek
I love the Van Saar, can’t wait to pick them up.
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Post by: MonkeyBallistic
I’ll probably get a box of Van Saars for conversions, but it’s Cawdor I’m really wanting. I hope they’re next.
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Post by: zend
Question about GSC gangs. Do Neophytes with heavy/special weapons go on 25mm bases like the normal gangers or do they go on 32mm like the Acolytes?
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Post by: Haighus
 zend wrote:Question about GSC gangs. Do Neophytes with heavy/special weapons go on 25mm bases like the normal gangers or do they go on 32mm like the Acolytes?
There are two 32mm bases included in the box for the heavies, but they do fit on 25mm if you wish, they just look a bit crowded like Marines used to (ten 25mm and two 32mm bases are included, allowing for choice).
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Post by: schoon
Nice models. (Cha-Ching)
I'll be picking those up.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Does anyone know what weapon the heavy has?
Also does that shield mean they're getting some sort of transparent sprue as well? 
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Post by: BrookM
The heavy has a rad cannon and the Hrystrar pattern energy shield is indeed transparent, probably treated with a glaze or something to give it that colour.
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Post by: Mymearan
Love these models so much. Not buying any more Gang War books though, nope. The weird release schedule has arrested all momentum the game had at my club, so I'll be waiting until the Gang War Collected Edition, hopefully at the end of the year, and I'll be treating the game like it's a new release then... with the support needed to make it a game people want to play.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
The repeated poses kinda leap out with these guys.
“Dammit Steve you brought a box to step on too????”
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Post by: Paradigm
I wonder if that's deliberate; this way, no one can then complain about the box being duplicate sprues. It's perhaps just to be up-front about what you get.
I do still like the look of those guys, but I shall possibly wait for some reviews on how the models go together; I loved building the Escher minis as there were a ton of possibilities and didn't particularly care for the Golaith as they really lacked options in pose, so I shall see which side of that spectrum these guys fall on. I imagine the armour lends itself to a freer setup, as unlike the Goliath you don't need to worry about aligning musculature.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Yeah.
If everyone is in a characterful pose, then no one is in a characterful pose.
That box was a bad idea...
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Post by: Theophony
 H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah.
If everyone is in a characterful pose, then no one is in a characterful pose.
That box was a bad idea...
With all the extra arms on the sprue you think they could have made an extra foot attached to a different type of container/slag/I-beam/skull. Maybe that’s one of the items forgeworld will provide in the 3 resin upgrades.
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Post by: Flinty
The long awaited "underhive footrest" upgrade set. I can picture it now  Automatically Appended Next Post: To be fair though I think the Van Saars are one of the best sets I've seen for a long time. I'm sure it wouldn't take much effort to change the box for something else is even entirely change the poses to get some variety.
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Post by: BrookM
The models are not Raging Heroes levels of bad though.
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Post by: JmOz01
Anyone else thinking of using these guys as scions?
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Post by: Mymearan
Holy cow, that dog... best cyber dog I've seen since the limited Enforcer...
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I hope those cyber ponytails get a specific attack profile,
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Have hammer, will travel.
I adore that mini, almost as much as the upcoming Escher bounty hunter with the sweet power axe.
Even FW's patented "Too much fething highlighting!" painting style can't ruin it.
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Post by: Ascalam
Now that's a model I need
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Post by: Siygess
 Mymearan wrote:Holy cow, that dog... best cyber dog I've seen since the limited Enforcer...
Agreed - I hope you will be able to buy the dog on his own - because I'm going to need more than one of those!
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Does FW tend to release Hired Guns in batches? I'd love the Orlock guy with Cyberhound, and the Escher girl with Power-Axe, but there's no way I can eat $12 shipping for a single model, twice. :-p
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Post by: MajorTom11
 JohnnyHell wrote:The repeated poses kinda leap out with these guys.
“Dammit Steve you brought a box to step on too????”
That's because some damn idjit put all the dupe poses beside each other lol, makes it hard not to see!
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Post by: JohnnyHell
 MajorTom11 wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:The repeated poses kinda leap out with these guys.
“Dammit Steve you brought a box to step on too????”
That's because some damn idjit put all the dupe poses beside each other lol, makes it hard not to see!
Yeah not a smart choice! These leap out more than the Escher and way more than the Goliaths.
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Post by: streetsamurai
I've said it before and I'll say it again, but it's really unfortunate that GW didn't believe more in Necro and made 2 unique sprues for each gang instead of only 1. Game suffer a lot from it.
God damn is that orlock and his dog cool
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Post by: lord_blackfang
 streetsamurai wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, but it's really unfortunate that GW didn't believe more in Necro and made 2 unique sprues for each gang instead of only 1. Game suffer a lot from it.
For reals, it's half the size of a normal infantry sprue.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
To be fair... they do that with Bloodbowl too, and if ever a game deserved their (sometimes lacking) confidence, its a game that hasn't needed a rules re-write in functionally twenty years. :-p
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Post by: Chairman Aeon
Dude, they really are going back to the '80s source here... Must resist calling rad cannon totally tubular... Also, rad stuff destroyed Rogue Trader, so... Man, that's a lot of sentences ending in ellipsis...
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Post by: Haighus
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:I’ll probably get a box of Van Saars for conversions, but it’s Cawdor I’m really wanting. I hope they’re next.
Cawdor are supposed to be next. Personally I suspect they will be revealed at Warhammer Fest in May, quite probably alongside some Van Saar upgrade weapons.
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Post by: privateer4hire
Where are all the previews of GW3? Compared to GW2 and the recent WD articles, I've not seen anything beyond GW3's cover.
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Post by: Thargrim
 privateer4hire wrote:Where are all the previews of GW3? Compared to GW2 and the recent WD articles, I've not seen anything beyond GW3's cover.
I'm hoping we get a preview on the twitch channel this week, along with a couple community site articles before their release. Honestly all the quiet about the actual book had me thinking it would be releasing a bit later. I've got mixed feelings on the book as well, just hoping it doesn't make things worse.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
They mentioned when Andy Hoare was on Warhammer TV last week (talking about Blood Bowl) that the schedule has been disrupted recently because of event coverage. More Necromunda talk this week, apparently.
GW3 previews include the Van Saar, the Ambot and that new Orlock hired gun.
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Post by: JimmyWolf87
privateer4hire wrote:Where are all the previews of GW3? Compared to GW2 and the recent WD articles, I've not seen anything beyond GW3's cover.
Maybe it's slightly behind because they're proof-reading it this time?
.....I know, I know. A man can but hope.
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Post by: Flinty
Should we put a pool on how many copy paste errors made it through this time?
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Reckon we'll see the next gang previewed at Warhammerfest - possibly both the remaining 'core' gangs.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
 Flinty wrote:Should we put a pool on how many copy paste errors made it through this time?
All of them?
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Post by: Pacific
I think those new Van Saar look fantastic. Possibly the biggest jump so far between the old sculpts and the new with the new releases, these definitely have a new identity that has benefited from the 20/25 years in-between.
The box and dynamic poses don't bother me too much, if you don't like them I'm sure there will be additional sprues where you can get the conventional standing pose.
I think I'm likely to dirty them up a bit with paint scheme, and move away from the clean sci-fi/Infinity style paint-job that I don't think fits the grimy, roll in mud and dystopian vision of Necromunda. I think they would look ace with a more dirty cyber-punk type look.
Mymearan wrote:Love these models so much. Not buying any more Gang War books though, nope. The weird release schedule has arrested all momentum the game had at my club, so I'll be waiting until the Gang War Collected Edition, hopefully at the end of the year, and I'll be treating the game like it's a new release then... with the support needed to make it a game people want to play.
I'm just starting a campaign, and after some research am running it as a mix of new Necromunda and the classic edition. Simply put I don't think the new campaign elements are fit for purpose; not just the typos, mismatches of stats and FAQs but it doesn't have a good mechanic to regulate gang ratings so it's easy to see them spiralling out of control. That being said I love some of the new mechanics in the new game and increased speed of play (alternative activations, new melee system), it's just that the campaign system feels like its incomplete.
So I'm using new Necromunda for most of the main game (except for WS to hit and grenade weapons) and skills, but all post-game, trading, gang ratings, experience and character growth from the classic game.
I have seen venues planning tournaments of this game, and can only think the people doing it will need a medal afterwards - if there is anything left of them. Although, to be honest the game was never intended to be run in a tournament/competitive setting by design, and I struggle to think of a game less suited to that format. Maybe D&D?
BrookM wrote:The models are not Raging Heroes levels of bad though.
Yes - although those are purposefully in extreme, comic-book heroic poses, rather than being specifically posed as wargaming miniatures (although funnily enough think a few of them would look great in amongst an Escher gang, I was thinking of using the large lady as the gang leader..)
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Post by: timd
 Pacific wrote:
I'm just starting a campaign, and after some research am running it as a mix of new Necromunda and the classic edition. Simply put I don't think the new campaign elements are fit for purpose; not just the typos, mismatches of stats and FAQs but it doesn't have a good mechanic to regulate gang ratings so it's easy to see them spiralling out of control. That being said I love some of the new mechanics in the new game and increased speed of play (alternative activations, new melee system), it's just that the campaign system feels like its incomplete.
So I'm using new Necromunda for most of the main game (except for WS to hit and grenade weapons) and skills, but all post-game, trading, gang ratings, experience and character growth from the classic game.
I'm thinking much the same way. Please keep us posted on how this works out.
T
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Please do let us know how it goes. I love the original Necromunda's campaign mode, and in just starting N'17 i'm finding I love its flow of play. A hybrid sounds amazing.
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Post by: kestral
Gotta ding GW on VanSaar - I liked the other gangs, but these don't work for me. Still, nothing ever said I was going to buy them all.
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Post by: Flinty
 kestral wrote:Gotta ding GW on VanSaar - I liked the other gangs, but these don't work for me. Still, nothing ever said I was going to buy them all.
Interesting. Can you define what you don't like about them? Just curious.
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Post by: Bloodmaster
 Haighus wrote: MonkeyBallistic wrote:I’ll probably get a box of Van Saars for conversions, but it’s Cawdor I’m really wanting. I hope they’re next.
Cawdor are supposed to be next. Personally I suspect they will be revealed at Warhammer Fest in May, quite probably alongside some Van Saar upgrade weapons.
Where is it from that Cawdor will be next? Really hope its true
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Post by: Flashman
Bloodmaster wrote: Haighus wrote: MonkeyBallistic wrote:I’ll probably get a box of Van Saars for conversions, but it’s Cawdor I’m really wanting. I hope they’re next.
Cawdor are supposed to be next. Personally I suspect they will be revealed at Warhammer Fest in May, quite probably alongside some Van Saar upgrade weapons.
Where is it from that Cawdor will be next? Really hope its true
Around the time the box set was released, someone spoke to one of the developers at a convention and it was suggested that release order would be as follows;
Orlocks
Van Saar
Cawdor
Delaque
The first two were correct, so...
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Post by: insaniak
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah.
If everyone is in a characterful pose, then no one is in a characterful pose.
That box was a bad idea...
Easy enough to remove and replace with something else, at least. Yay for plastic
Love the hammer guy, and that is quite possibly the best dog that GW has ever made.
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Post by: BrookM
Not sure if mentioned already, but from Facebook:
This Friday, for just a few credits, you'll be able to add Grendl Grendlsen to your gang courtesy of his hotly awaited release from Forge World.
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Post by: Fifty
I went to the Necromunda event at Warhammer World on Saturday. It was a really good event. Four 90-minute games. Stand Off twice and Border Dispute twice. The rules pack was pretty good. 1250 points to build your gang. Items from tading post allowed, but only up to rare(9). Champions do not get their starting skill, but the gang DOES get five skills to spread around anywhere. Friendly atmosphere and a really fun day.
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Post by: zedmeister
Well I'm definitely placing a Forgeworld order this Friday 
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Post by: Baxx
 Fifty wrote:I went to the Necromunda event at Warhammer World on Saturday. It was a really good event. Four 90-minute games. Stand Off twice and Border Dispute twice. The rules pack was pretty good. 1250 points to build your gang. Items from tading post allowed, but only up to rare(9). Champions do not get their starting skill, but the gang DOES get five skills to spread around anywhere. Friendly atmosphere and a really fun day.
How did you solve charges 0.5" too short to reach target?
How did you handle blast weapons, Grenade launchers in particular (ignores target priority, no cover modifiers, cheaper than buying frag and krak grenades separate with longer range and allows reload which grenades does not)?
How did you handle advancements tax, did the initial skill bump up the XP price of subsequent purchases?
How did you handle fighters that went into recovery from lasting injuries, could they do post-battle actions in the following post-battle sequence? Or did they have to wait until after the next game?
What long range did you use on lasguns?
Could all juves buy grenades, armour and wargear, only Escher juves or no juves at all?
How much did you increase ganger cost after leveling up WS/ BS compared to Wil/Int?
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Post by: Chopstick
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Post by: Baxx
According to some screenshots I've seen from facebook, Toxin is now confirmed to allow armour saves.
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Post by: Chopstick
A handful of new scenarios in the new book it seem, some could net you hefty sum of credit, some new way to spend credit.
Also a roll for the underdog team where they plead their clan house for help, which could end up getting them punished, nothing, credit, or a champion.
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Post by: hobojebus
Baxx wrote:According to some screenshots I've seen from facebook, Toxin is now confirmed to allow armour saves.
Offs really it's changing month to month it really seems they are changing stuff not to improve things but to drive book sales.
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Post by: Baxx
Chopstick wrote:A handful of new scenarios in the new book it seem, some could net you hefty sum of credit, some new way to spend credit. Also a roll for the underdog team where they plead their clan house for help, which could end up getting them punished, nothing, credit, or a champion.
Let's hope those scenarios doesn't grant some unfortunate situation where the team that bottles and flees robs the opponent of all the rewards. Refer to stand-off, looters, ambush, border dispute, sabotage, rescue and claim the spire. Actually when I come to think about it, only 1 of 8 scenarios (The Gauntlet) seems to make sense. The underdog with clan house help, I suppose that's a one-off bonus since most teams usually have filled the available Champion slots and therefore cannot add more to the roster? Automatically Appended Next Post: hobojebus wrote:Baxx wrote:According to some screenshots I've seen from facebook, Toxin is now confirmed to allow armour saves.
Offs really it's changing month to month it really seems they are changing stuff not to improve things but to drive book sales.
Well the books usually just brings more problems and not solutions so I wouldn't expect them to sell more books until they make one that actually has the correct rules.
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Post by: BrookM
Dat Escher.. BABE! 
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Post by: BrookM
Also pretty neato, I could use one or two for my Sacristans.
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Post by: Chopstick
Ok I'm trying to recite what happen. Probably not 100% accurate.
Pet : companion for Champion and Leader. Each person can have a pack of 3 I think.
1. Orlock Doggo : spotter for sentry duty, protect owner from coup d' grace?
2. Mechanical Spider : no idea, they said it can attach all kind of fire arm.
3. Sumcroc : first ever model on 40mm base. Charge with leader to give 1 extra attack?
4. Cat : can split up from owner.
Neutral Pet : Vampire cherub thingy :you can look for one, grant extra dodge save against attack as long as your reputation on the rise, vice versa if your reputation go down it's bad (no idea how bad)
2. Expand Trading post :
More shotgun ammo
Autogun ammo? Lasgun variation?
Many type of Armors
Personald Energy Shield that give inv save : conversion field, displacement field...? What?
New scenario, name are obviously incorrect, only the description
Introducing the Abitrator, a 3rd player control various NPC, monster in the campaign. kinda like a DM/
1. Don't remember
.2 Into the pit : Fight inside a garbage compactor, the battlefield shrink over time. Kinda liike PUBG/Battle Royale game. Try to escape the pit.
3. Settlement fight: civilians on site,(use any models you like) controlled by the abitrator or random roll behavior. Trick the other team into killing more civilians than you to gain the trust of the local folks, and took over (i mean protect) the turf.
4.Caravan Raid, escort the payload. Andy suggest using Goliath truck as the caravan. So people can stand on top of it and have some cover.
5. Shootout : return of the classic scenario!
6.Spook(?) harvest, Discover lord Helmawr secret poppy field, harvest spook for FAT MUNIE. be careful because harvesting them can cause some unwanted effect, some good, somtime bad and your ganger can go insane.
7. Pitch black fight : can't see ****, captain! Abitrator can control and drop in token to present a random monster lurking in the dark. Send someone to find out what monster it is? (probably a Juve)
8. Monster hunt. : Bounty for whoever can take out a mysterious monster. Small tentacle spawn each time a ganger is down. Took down as many tentacle as possible. The monster will spawn after enough tentacle is taken out. use any models you want.
Special multiplayer fight : for 10+ gang compaign, each gang send a champion to fight, special rule allow them to be more resilient than a normal game.
Van Saar are completely immune to the Rad weapon effect, which reduce toughness.
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Post by: BrookM
I like the idea of the multiplayer fight.
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Post by: Popsghostly
Who's dat? Escher? I likey... Automatically Appended Next Post: If she's Escher, she actually looks like a girl unlike some of the plastic ones I have. Don't get me wrong, it's a really good kit with options, easy to build, etc., but they look pretty manish.
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Post by: Chopstick
Belladonna, Bounty hunter . she's in the book, and White Dwarf....
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Post by: Popsghostly
Chopstick wrote:
Belladonna, Bounty hunter . she's in the book, and White Dwarf....
I need her!!! May White Dwarf? I need that too...
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Post by: Chopstick
No, in some of the older one, only a picture with name. No rules.
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Post by: Irbis
Limbs on that BH look oddly primitive. Both spider and dog from last 2 pages look more refined and better crafted (of course, that might just be Escher having less expertise in metalwork).
Also, is that non-boob armour? The sky is about to fall, isn't it
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Post by: ImAGeek
The cyberarachnid is really cool.
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Post by: timd
 Irbis wrote:Limbs on that BH look oddly primitive. Both spider and dog from last 2 pages look more refined and better crafted (of course, that might just be Escher having less expertise in metalwork).
Also, is that non-boob armour? The sky is about to fall, isn't it
Uniboob armor...
T
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Post by: Popsghostly
timd wrote: Irbis wrote:Limbs on that BH look oddly primitive. Both spider and dog from last 2 pages look more refined and better crafted (of course, that might just be Escher having less expertise in metalwork).
Also, is that non-boob armour? The sky is about to fall, isn't it
Uniboob armor...
T
Oddly, when I look at her that Rob Zombie song, "More Human Than Human" blasts in my head.
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Post by: insaniak
They are really knocking it out of the park with the hired guns...
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Post by: kendoka
Nice design - but in resin?
Cannot see how it would work.
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Post by: sockwithaticket
With warped, easily breakable limbs for everyone.
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Post by: Yodhrin
To be fair, I seriously doubt it will be that elegant looking as a model. Compare the artwork of Goliaths to the meatsticks that are the models - these will be "heroic scaled" into something that can be sold as a resin model fairly easily.
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Post by: MajorTom11
My first thought too... unless they anchor the limbs or body to some kind of scenery, that is going to be a total b***h to deal with. Wonder why they didn't just make a proper cyber slaved sump-spider instead of a genestealer headed servo skull with spider legs.
Hired Guns are dope. My enthusiasm to keep up with Necromunda is waning (as most of my obsessive starts usually do), but the hired guns maintain their appeal.
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Post by: Thargrim
That artwork is nice but I doubt it'll look exactly like that. I'd expect the legs to be thicker, and for it to have a larger size than that suggests. The phyrr or however you spell it cats also look a bit different than the artwork. If you ask me thats like a concept and the actual thing will be pretty close, but a bit more chunky.
I like how they used an actual spider head/brain instead of AI, since AI or droid brain is kind of heresy in the imperium...unless my memory is failing me.
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Post by: DaveC
Expensive week! £74 for the set
Goliath weapon packs there now as well.
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Post by: BrookM
Just getting Belladonna myself, not often that I impulse buy from Forge World.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Belladonna is easily my fav Necro miniature since the re-release. It is just perfect. Whoever is painting these things has done their utmost to ruin her, but it's still incredible.
But let's take a look at these two (not three, thank the Emperor) weapon sets:
Nice to see that this set isn't quite as obsessed with Hand Flamers as the Escher one. No Stubguns though. Or Autoguns. Or Lasguns. Or one-handed Stub Cannons.
Still, a massive improvement over the Escher ones. Great stuff.
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Post by: Pacific
That Escher is a beautiful sculpt and wow what a paint job.
Is that a new miniature being released, a FW exclusive etc?
If anyone wants a cheaper, more Rogue Trader-esque squat to use with Necromunda Macrocosm make a nice alternative. I picked up these guys from a show a while ago and will probably paint them up to use as hired hands, extra little stand-in mercenaries (medic and his brother who serves as a bodyguard) - OK for £5
http://www.macrocosm.co.uk/product/digger-corps-medic-and-coms-officer/
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Why? Why did I pledge 'one of everything' for Necromunda?
My wallet cannot repel releases of that magnitude!
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Post by: Clockpunk
Holy hell in a hand basket, I honestly expected just the squat today! Very glad to see so many releases (wallet can't say the same) - just need one more BB star player then I can qualify for free shipping!
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Post by: schoon
Yessssss...
Those will be mine.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Can anyone give me an idea of how Bounty Hunters/Hired Guns work in N'17 (we're just assembling and getting in demo games so far).
I REALLY want to do something stupid and order all of these, but if their rules are terrible, I would feel a bit sad. Someone has mentioned in almost any case you're better just hiring more regular gangers?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Well they're cool models. And they're prohibitively expensive, and you're often better off buying multiple new gangers that stay in your gang than the ludicrous prices for a single-serve friend Hired Gun.
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Post by: Pacific
I think general consensus is that they are pretty expensive so most people probably won't bother, unless you are coming to the end of a campaign and want to burn creds. Which is a shame as these are some lovely minis.
If you have a look on the Yaktribe forum there are some ideas for changing this - either using the classic edition costs, or there are some interesting home-brew ideas for having bounty on individual gangers on the opposing gang. This will allow you to get bounty hunters at a reduced cost, but with penalties if the person they are targeting isn't taken out.
So - if you like the minis I would say go for them. Unless you're playing in a tournament which is trying to play the game RAW (why?) just use the rules from the classic edition or come up with your own adaptation.
I've always felt the rules for Bounty Hunters were one of the most under-utilised in Necromunda. There is a lot of potential there for them to fit in with the ongoing narrative, for the arbitrator to help place them in games to help struggling gangs etc (which really fits in with a movie-style narrative). Rather than just paying more creds for a tooled-up extra character with no context attached to it.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/27/may-white-dwarf-preview-27-aprgw-homepage-post-2/  This month’s White Dwarf is particularly exciting for Necromunda fans, featuring rules for making Venator gangs – essentially, a flexible set of profiles that allow you to let your imagination run wild and design any kind of gang you want, representing a pack of Bounty Hunters brought together in a grand hunt through the underhive. Everything from skill sets, to unit profiles, to weapons can be mixed and matched in a Venator gang – you can even have your fighters hail from one of the great Gang Houses. These gangs promise to be a treat for converters and tinkerers looking to build profiles for their favourite models, or narrative gamers looking to properly represent some long-lost piece of lore or even a faction of their own invention. 
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Post by: Chopstick
As expected, this is the "your dude" gang that can include any kind of model, even one from the house.
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Post by: drazz
Huh.
Enforcers anyone?
Or Pit Slaves. Yes, Pit slaves.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Well that's good timing... :-p A little extra excuse to buy the FW models I was looking for.
To be fair, we also play a lot of "This is Not a Test", and they all make awesome post-apocalyptic survivors. :-p
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Post by: Crimson
I really hope those Venator rules are super flexible. I want to convert all sorts of crazy models.
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Post by: Bob Lorgar
Um...am I reading that correctly, and they just retconned Redemptionists into gangs of bounty hunters?
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Post by: Dryaktylus
Bob Lorgar wrote:Um...am I reading that correctly, and they just retconned Redemptionists into gangs of bounty hunters?
No. They just took the Confrontation fluff of the Venators and wrote a gang list for all kinds of bounty hunters.
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Post by: Warhams-77
Good that you mention it, I totally forgot they were a thing. There is an extensive article on Leadplague about their original fluff
http://leadplague.blogspot.de/2014/02/building-venators-journey-from.html
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Post by: Thargrim
Van Saar pre orders are now up on the NZ site,
Looks like there is a lasgun, and a las carbine and they both look a bit similar. And if you didn't like the tech ponytails looks like it'll be no problem leaving them off.
GW3 is also 90 pages, a step up from the 48 or so in GW2.
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Post by: Flinty
I love the modular weapon design. Really neat way to be able to fit different weapon load outs using one set of arms. Just unfortunate that there are no shotguns. I just feel that Necromunda should be based on shotguns with everything else effectively a special weapon
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Post by: Chairman Aeon
Two bounty hunters or a new gang, what to do with $60 CAD...
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Post by: MajorTom11
Gang... wait til you need enough to get free ship for FW.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
The shield is not clear/frosted plastic it seems.
Just an optical illusion when put on a white background:
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Post by: Dr Mathias
I may be an idiot... but where is the shield on the sprue? The boss/shield center appears to be in the middle of the frame but I don't see the actual shield face. I may be interpreting what I perceive incorrectly but it looks like the shield is clear to me...
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Post by: MajorTom11
It's clear. You can see it on all the other shots, esp the ones on terrain. The shield shape is clearly not on the sprue, so guessing it is a seperate piece as one would expect.
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Post by: Chikout
H.B.M.C. wrote:The shield is not clear/frosted plastic it seems.
Just an optical illusion when put on a white background:
It is frosted. Andy Hoare talked about it on the recent live stream. He said there are two Shields on their own sprue in slightly coloured transparent plastic. Not sure why they are not shown on the website.
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Post by: Breotan
Well. So far the new Necromunda has been a complete hit. Unlike any other GW product, it looks like I'll be buying at least one of everything.
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Post by: stormboy
If you order this weekend, free shipping is just 100£.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Ah well, fair enough. The sprue's not shown/mentioned, so I guessed it was a trick of painting.
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Post by: Pacific
I guess it would just be like if you got a plastic kit for an aircraft or something, the canopy bit and any other clear components would be on a separate sprue (as different material)
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Post by: Vorian
Well this post just cost me a little over £100!
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Post by: Chopstick
Kinda disappointed there are no inferno pistol.
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Post by: Flinty
 Breotan wrote:Well. So far the new Necromunda has been a complete hit. Unlike any other GW product, it looks like I'll be buying at least one of everything.
Heh. The models are superb and the basic game mechanics are solid. Pity that the rulebooks are again a horrid morass of typos and ambiguity with limited proof reading...
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Post by: Lord Damocles
It's a shame that the Van Saar sprue doesn't include parts to make more than a single female, since the chest plates appear to be separate anyway.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Flinty wrote: Breotan wrote:Well. So far the new Necromunda has been a complete hit. Unlike any other GW product, it looks like I'll be buying at least one of everything.
Heh. The models are superb and the basic game mechanics are solid. Pity that the rulebooks are again a horrid morass of typos and ambiguity with limited proof reading...
Or that you need to buy 3+ supplements and the box set in order to get all of the rules.
The fact I can't buy the core rules separately is a rule deal breaker for me.
I don't want to pay 50 bucks for models I don't intend on using.
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Post by: ImAGeek
 Lord Damocles wrote:It's a shame that the Van Saar sprue doesn't include parts to make more than a single female, since the chest plates appear to be separate anyway.
The torsos are a different size for the female and male models, looking at the sprue.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Next weekend, the Specialist Games team are at Warhammer World for a few hours meet and greet, chit-chat-chin-wag.
We need to send a Dakkanaut. Sadly, it can’t be me, as I’ll be pissed up in a field enjoying some latex weapon related violence.
Can anyone else go?
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Post by: Pacific
Heh. The models are superb and the basic game mechanics are solid. Pity that the rulebooks are again a horrid morass of typos and ambiguity with limited proof reading...
I would say almost certainly there has to be some kind of compilation at the end of the year - combining rules and providing FAQ for everything.
It doesn't help at the moment that the on-going FAQs seem to add more confusion, or situations where you have developers adding clarifications on FB, only to remove them later.
So I would say - faced with a shifting landscape, use the new rules as much as you can, anything campaign related or post-game (which I think is the most imbalanced and incomplete) use the classic edition. If you go on to the Yaktribe website they have something called 'NCE' (Necromunda classic edition) which is basically the original rulebook + community clarifications/ FAQs which have been compiled over the past 20 years. It's very, very well balanced (as much as a game like Necromunda can be) and has so much cool stuff that currently doesn't have rules written for it yet in the new edition (I assume some bits will be in new Gang War books). There is a free download of the PDF document from the Yaktribe website.
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Sadly, it can’t be me, as I’ll be pissed up in a field enjoying some latex weapon related violence.
I've been trying to think for a while what this could be, and the best guess I can make is Thundercats re-enactment society?
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Post by: Strombones
Well the Van Saar stuff is pretty remarkable in my opinion. Satrting Necromunda is still a little out of my price range, but the models are keeping me interested.
Do we have any clue what gang may be next?
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Post by: Thargrim
 Strombones wrote:Well the Van Saar stuff is pretty remarkable in my opinion. Satrting Necromunda is still a little out of my price range, but the models are keeping me interested.
Do we have any clue what gang may be next?
Cawdor will be next, followed by Delaque at the end of the year. I think those two will look the best for some reason.
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Post by: Chairman Aeon
Strombones wrote:Well the Van Saar stuff is pretty remarkable in my opinion. Satrting Necromunda is still a little out of my price range, but the models are keeping me interested.
I'm buying bounty hunters and will pick up some gangs as money permits for the RPG coming out in Q3. If they release a complete rules compendium I might pick it up...if Kill Team doesn't allow me to use all those pretties in its rules.
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Post by: Baxx
Strombones wrote:Well the Van Saar stuff is pretty remarkable in my opinion. Satrting Necromunda is still a little out of my price range, but the models are keeping me interested.
Do we have any clue what gang may be next?
Necromunda is one of the cheapest miniature games to start. One reason why GW haven't touched it in 15 years.
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Post by: Warhams-77
From the Warhammer TV livestream
Enentol - Yaktribe
Home sick, so I took some notes from the WarhammerTV Gang War 3 preview. I missed the first hour (thought it was GMT, not BST), but the second hour was full of info. Caught some of the battle report too.
This is the first book of the series with the two new Necromunda leads writing it. It seems to contain a ton of stuff.
Van Saars
I’m guessing they covered the Van Saar list in the first hour, cause they really didn’t talk about it much. Along with Van Saars, there's a few named characters/hired-guns including new Orlock with the cyber mastiff.
Van Saar are obviously the shooty and technological gang. They’re frail, not liking close combat – so toys to compensate. Bad initiative.
Easy access to plasma, suppression lasers (laser shotguns?!), grav weapons in house list.They said that Van Saar lasguns are better than standard – but I’m not sure how. Rad Cannon and Rad Grenades in house list as well. Rad Cannon is range 32, Blast.
New Rad-phage rule – models hit take a flesh wound regardless of the wound/injury results. Van Saar suits mean they’re immune to rad.
Brutes
Brutes are hireable, big dumb guys. They include things like Ambots and Slave Ogryns. They’re a new class of Hanger On.
The list will be greatly expanded in the future. Each gang will be getting a themed brute.
Brutes are slow, but hit hard in close combat. However, they may not always do what you want.
Pets
Pets are upgrades for leaders and champions. There are limits for how many you can take based on pet type. Eg. One guy can take up to 3 cyber mastiffs. Not sure if there’s a gang limit though – or just capped at champion limit.
Pets usually have to stay close to the model that owns them. Can't go further than 3". Some have extended ranges, like Escher Phyrr cats that can go up to 9".
Each pet has different advantages and rules. Eg. Fighters can’t be coup de grace’d when they have a cyber mastiff. Cyber mastiffs are better at detection of attackers during sentry missions. Van Saar cyberarachnid is great on terrain and has different weapon modules they can plug in.
Pets can gain limited skills. Skill lists reflect gangs they're from.
Confirmed pets in GW3: cyber mastiff, phyrr cats, sump croc, cyberarachnid, caryatid.
Caryatid is a weird cherub baby thing that is attracted to lucky gangers and makes them luckier. But, if you start to fail, it can betray you.
Trading Post
Trading post = "Crazy amount of new stuff". Contains all house weapons and all imperial weapons from 40k. Some weapons are still house-exclusive (eg. Escher chem-thrower).
Gangs can have different prices for different weapons.
Huge amount of new wargear including force fields and displacer fields.
Lots of ammo and armour types.
Servo skulls are new wargear with lots of different types that have different bonuses.
No xenos weapons "yet", but lots of stuff that hasn't been seen before on 40k battlefields.
House lists have been extended so there are more options at creation time. Eg. everyone can take heavy stubbers when they create gangs now. Not sure if this means that there is an extended “house item list” for everyone, or if it’s the whole trading post open at gang creation.
Expanded Campaign Rules
Tons of new campaign rules (think Turf War 2.0). A big expansion.
Expanded role of arbitrator
More advice and guidance on running campaigns.
Balancing mechanisms for gangs – buffs for lower gangs, challenges for better gangs.
New options for battles, campaign events.
Introduces monsters, independent gangs (gilder watchmen, or other groups with narrative roles in the scenarios)
Narrative Scenarios
A lot of new scenarios Each scenario can be played in either Zone Mortalis or Sector Mechnicus styles. Each can be played as a skirmish, campaign, or "arbitrated campaign game" (add monsters, etc.)
Last Stand: Was the Warhammer TV battle report. One gang sets up whole crew within 6” of the middle of table as defender. Attackers can start on any and all table edges. Attacker has 7 turns to wipe defenders. When an attacker model is knocked out of action, it gets recycled back on as a reinforcement. Not sure if they can bring on new models as reinforcements.
Escape the Pit: Two gangs are down in a disused part of the hive. Some ancient mechanism has come to life and the walls start to close in garbage compactor-style (or a hive section starts collapsing, etc.). Start with gangs on either side of the board and an escape point in the middle. Grab loot and get out. At the end of each turn, there’s a chance that the hive closes in. Eg. take a board tile off if playing 2D or reduce playing size by 6" if playing 3D. Gangers have a chance to scramble out of the section right before it goes.
Downtown Dustup: Two gangs have found themselves in a settlement. Both are claiming its as their own. NPC civilian hive-dwellers are scattered around the bord. They'll react to combat (behaviour table with 3? random results). Gotta keep the civilians alive and protect them to have better rewards post-mission.
Shootout: It’s back! Similar to 1st edition. Big rep rewards for holding nerve.
Caravan Heist: Great for making money. A guilder caravan moves slowly across the board and one gang has to defend it from ambushers. Can model the caravan as trucks, wagons, etc. Can kit the caravan model out with heavy stubbers, flamers, etc. for defense. “Tough nut to crack, but lots of money to be made.”
Spook Harvest: One gang fights their way into a spook-growing area. Gotta harvest as much as you can and get out. When you harvest, there’s a chance it'll mess you up. You have to roll on a table (not sure if it happens if you fail a test, or every time). Results:
Oh god oh god oh god: ganger panics, may attack his friends
It’s like the universe is in my mind: random “power”
Today, I am the emperor: “you are your ‘best self’ and you go and thrash people”
In the Dark: Gang fight, but in total darkness. “Pitch Black” rules in effect. Can see about 3”. Wargear can help you overcome (night vision goggles, etc.). Muzzle flashes (or being on fire) give you away. Horrors and monsters may lurk in the dark.
Monster Hunt: Uses tentacle terrain piece - but LOTS of them. A bounty has been placed on a monster – but you have to go flush it out first. Tentacles start to pop up as gangers get seriously injured. After you kill a certain amount, the giant monster turns up. Gang who gets killing blow gets tons of money.
Multiplayer
New rules for multiplayer games - including MP-specific scenarios.
They ran out of time, but one example was "Pit fight", where each player takes one of their champions to brawl gladiator-style.
Cronewald - Yaktribe
They said they are saving the Van Saar for a more in depth look next week. The first hour was mostly a flip though of the book. It overlapped a bit with the second hour but was still interesting.
They showed off some of the artwork and talked about where some of the ideas came from. For example, a number of the ideas for pets and brutes came from Andy's work on the FFG 40k rpgs. The Ambots use an Actual Ambull brain to skirt the no A.I. rule. The ones the gangs use have had their safety locks removed and revert to basic instincts.
One thing I found interesting was that Trish Morison sculpted the pets while her daughter, who also works for Forgeworld, did the concept art for them.
I can't remember, this may have been where they talked about status items for gang leaders. It's mostly bling like gold plated weapons and fancy clothes but with a little bit of rules attached.
So mostly background and pretty pictures, not much that's going to directly impact gameplay, but still nice to see some insight into the design process.
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Post by: BrookM
Thanks for sharing!
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Post by: Theophony
At this point I’m just waiting for the beta testing to be finished and the real rule book to be released. Not buying until then.
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Post by: Skinnereal
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Next weekend, the Specialist Games team are at Warhammer World for a few hours meet and greet, chit-chat-chin-wag.
We need to send a Dakkanaut. Sadly, it can’t be me, as I’ll be pissed up in a field enjoying some latex weapon related violence.
Can anyone else go?
Well, if I'm there on the 6th, and at the time anything happens, I'll try to pay attention.
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Post by: Chairman Aeon
Trish Morrison sculpted the pets, interesting...
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Post by: kestral
 Theophony wrote:At this point I’m just waiting for the beta testing to be finished and the real rule book to be released. Not buying until then.
Yeah, I'm sort of leaning that way too. I like what I'm hearing, but I'd like it in one, cleaned up book.
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Post by: malfred
Baxx wrote: Strombones wrote:Well the Van Saar stuff is pretty remarkable in my opinion. Satrting Necromunda is still a little out of my price range, but the models are keeping me interested.
Do we have any clue what gang may be next?
Necromunda is one of the cheapest miniature games to start. One reason why GW haven't touched it in 15 years.
Well, then they figured out how to do the terrain properly and...
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Post by: Aesthete
Yeah I'm with the group waiting for the collected rules before I really dive in. Those scenarios sound pretty sweet tho'.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
 Aesthete wrote:Yeah I'm with the group waiting for the collected rules before I really dive in. Those scenarios sound pretty sweet tho'.
Yup, same. Grabbing the minis in any case (because they look fantastic), but they're probably getting used for something else in the meantime. But no rules until we get an omnibus edition. I'm not carting around half a dozen rulebooks for one game and considering the number of initial errors that are still slipping through, I'd rather a single volume where everything got an editing pass after it was first released.
The actual edition itself sounds really fun and intriguing (yeah, still has balance issues, but that has always been a part of Necro and Mordheim, so I cut it some slack there because nothing has yet to beat its feeling of attachment to your gang and campaign progression), but I'm just not on board with the release pattern that will mostly just screw early adopters in the long run. On the other hand, this does mean that Necro didn't basically curl up and die after its initial surge of releases. So that's nice.
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Post by: Lord Damocles
 malfred wrote:Well, then they figured out how to do the terrain properly and...
...re-released it as a 2D board game!
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Post by: Dryaktylus
As long as there're no dragons, griffons and manticores in the Underhive, I'm fine with that.
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Post by: Strombones
Baxx wrote: Strombones wrote:Well the Van Saar stuff is pretty remarkable in my opinion. Satrting Necromunda is still a little out of my price range, but the models are keeping me interested.
Do we have any clue what gang may be next?
Necromunda is one of the cheapest miniature games to start. One reason why GW haven't touched it in 15 years.
Unfortunately I'm not content to play the 2D game out of the box. I'd rather do it properly with some of the mechanicus terrain, nothing extravagant, maybe just a 3x3 and two terrain kits.
Add all the books to that and we're sitting at an easy 400+
It's do-able for sure, and I'll definitely get to it one day as Necromunda is far too cool for me to not own. It's just a lot to commit to when I'm used to 15mm prices.
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Post by: Baxx
In a weird way I enjoy looking for all fractions of the rules in articles, pdfs and many books. It feels like GW made a challenge to test me.
Putting into one big document also helps alot.
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Post by: stormboy
Baxx wrote:In a weird way I enjoy looking for all fractions of the rules in articles, pdfs and many books. It feels like GW made a challenge to test me.
Putting into one big document also helps alot.
It feels like the olden days where everything was scattered across WD articles and books and sometimes other books (Citadel Journals and such). Warms my heart.
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Post by: Flinty
Butbl it doesnt matter So much if its scattered across a few books. What do you actually need? The gang lists, the weapon profiles.and the special skill rules, all of which can go on a couple.of.A4 summary pages, or is already contained on the Yaktribe gang builder system
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Post by: Yodhrin
Flinty wrote:Butbl it doesnt matter So much if its scattered across a few books. What do you actually need? The gang lists, the weapon profiles.and the special skill rules, all of which can go on a couple.of.A4 summary pages, or is already contained on the Yaktribe gang builder system
Apart from needing to pay for multiple books instead of just one, sure. One can always hoist the colours, as they say, but that's hardly a vindication of the pricing model.
stormboy wrote:Baxx wrote:In a weird way I enjoy looking for all fractions of the rules in articles, pdfs and many books. It feels like GW made a challenge to test me.
Putting into one big document also helps alot.
It feels like the olden days where everything was scattered across WD articles and books and sometimes other books (Citadel Journals and such). Warms my heart.
You and I remember the olden days very differently. I recall buying complete, finished, reasonably coherent products and then getting extra content in the Journals etc, much it basically fan-content. When they split stuff up and passed it out in WD, it was explicitly a "here's something we're working on, let us know what you think" affair that took up a handful of pages in issues filled with other content.
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Post by: Baxx
Yes the olden days had those complete books of all content. If you wanted some extra spice, you looked for those scattered articles. Automatically Appended Next Post: Flinty wrote:Butbl it doesnt matter So much if its scattered across a few books. What do you actually need? The gang lists, the weapon profiles.and the special skill rules, all of which can go on a couple.of.A4 summary pages, or is already contained on the Yaktribe gang builder system
I need everything and it takes more than 60 pages.
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Post by: Elbows
I'm still waiting and may not play the game (though I'll grab some Cawdor). I think it's telling that no one in my 40K group locally has bought into Necromunda, despite being dozens and dozens of players.
The few who mentioned being interested are put off (as I am) by the release model, lack of gangs, use of Forgeworld, resin, etc. It stalled the group I was going to play it with in two other locales as well. Shame.
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Post by: Irbis
Is it me or no one here actually read Van Saar GW blurb? 
I was very excited for them but this manure basically poured a bucket of cold water on it:
- 2 each of 5 body designs, each wearing armoured bodygloves, which can be assembled in 2 recommended ways:
- Body 1 can be armed with a lasgun and power knife, or a suppression laser
- Body 2 can be armed with a plasma gun and shock stave, or a rad cannon;
- Body 3 can be armed with a lascarbine or a lasgun
- Body 4 can be armed with a combi weapon (lasgun/melta) and Hrystrar pattern energy shield, or a lasgun
- Body 5 can be armed with 2 plasma pistols, or 2 laspistols;
- 20 heads – 12 bare, 8 helmeted – which can be attached to any body you wish;
What do we see here? Only 5 poses, and what's even worse, each of these can only have two weapon loadouts. You bought second box? Congrats, now enjoy having 4 clones of each mini, 2 exactly identical pairs to boot. Not enough helmets for full 10, but you get pile of gratis junk virtually identical bare heads that go against Van Saar fluff (or attempts to fielding them as say IG/Tempestus counts as). To make matters worse, unlike the other gangs who came with pile of weapons and arms for converting, these not only don't come with extra arms (so you're SOL if you don't want dual pistols or want body #2 to have more practical loadout) but the guns come in halves, stocks being welded to hands of tiny amount of arms you have, so you can't even give the spare guns to your other armies to have neat relic weapon or fix two impaired Van Saar minis.
What we got, on the other hand, is wasting 1/4 of sprue on dumb ponytails and collar cables, because no one would want stuff like extra weapons, arms, or hell, even 2-3 more female chest pieces (so you could actually customize the ratio in your gang and maybe make some non-clones) instead, eh? 
This release is huge step back compared to first 3 gangs, sprue-wise, and I am honestly puzzled how you can fit lots of customization for much bigger Goliaths but so under-deliver here. Killing one of main selling points of Van Saar design, cool guns and gear you could (had someone more competent made these sprues) use in conversions...
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Post by: ImAGeek
Recommended ways. All the kits so far have 2 recommended ways to build each body (shown in the instruction book).
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Post by: Hekal Xul
 ImAGeek wrote:Recommended ways. All the kits so far have 2 recommended ways to build each body (shown in the instruction book).
Exactly,
For me so many drawcards with this set :
-20K aesthetic that can be used elsewhere such as carapace and las 30k Militia Grenadiers/ Skitarii from a non-steampunk Forgeworld...
-All the limbs are separate which is an obvious improvement on previous releases. Opportunities for further customization way past what you could do with the -Eschers/Goliaths/Orlocks are there if you put a little effort and imagination into it
-Modular weapon idea so most arm sets aren't a fixed combo and there's spare barrels w/out hands and stocks with just hands and forearms to add more possibilities.
Will be interesting to see FW's approach to further weapon upgrades (pack of barrels?).
-Enough helmets for the whole unit +
-Male and female option parts
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Post by: Scott-S6
ImAGeek wrote:Recommended ways. All the kits so far have 2 recommended ways to build each body (shown in the instruction book).
There's no place for that talk. He's looking for something to be outraged about, damn-it!
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Post by: Captyn_Bob
Some gw3 stuff dropping on fb.
Van saar ganger . M4 i5+ T3 bs3+ 65 creds base
Leader/champ bs2+
6+ armour but can be combined like the undersuit (possibly with the undersuit)
Again quite unique stats. Interesting stuff.
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Post by: Baxx
Bounty Hunters are out. No weapon profile inconsistencies this time, mainly because there are no weapon profiles 
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Post by: Theophony
Baxx wrote:Bounty Hunters are out. No weapon profile inconsistencies this time, mainly because there are no weapon profiles
Doesn’t that mean their weapons do nothing, which is another inconsistency 
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Post by: Baxx
Hahaha that would make for a fun game. Your opponent just collected a bunch of cool minis and then say that.
I think the timing was well planned for the bounty hunter because they will benefit greatly from the new Trading Post in GW3 and suffer under the old and very limited one in GW1.
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Post by: Yodhrin
It looks cool, but the fluff for it bothers me a bit. The whole point of the Legio Cybernetica mothballing their Heresy-era Robots and using the less efficient "punchcard" versions was that they used actual grey matter with animalistic personalities, and it turned out that made them more vulnerable to corruption by Chaos.
But now the AdMech are building industrial bots used on major hive worlds that way? That seems a bit wonko.
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Post by: zedmeister
Doubt the AdMech have anything to do with this. Most likely Van Saar dabbling with their STC!
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Post by: BrookM
I think it was posted earlier in this thread, but the AmBots use the brains of actual Ambull, so are more of a cyborg or servitor than proper robots.
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Post by: Barzam
There's plenty of instances in the fluff of servitors having full on robot bodies. It isn't surprising that they'd do the same with industrial servitors like the Ambot. It's a chunky looking model. Is he supposed to be a Forgeworld release, or will he be plastic?
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Post by: BrookM
Forge World release.
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Post by: Barzam
Oh, boo to that. So does that mean the Ambot is supposed to be the Van Saar pet, then?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
It's an everybody pet. The initial artwork was painted as part of an Escher Gang.
GW3 has Ogryns and Ambullbots as the first 'Big Guy' members of the gang. They've said that eventually all the gangs will get unique Big Guys.
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Post by: zedmeister
I'm expecting the Goliath brute to be that roided up abhuman that was mentioned in their back story!
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Post by: schoon
Nice.
The Ambot looks like a solid miniature. It will do double duty for Necromunda and the new 40K RPG on my table.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
How's the fluff in the Gang War books? Do they throw in character pieces or short stories?
Keep in mind I wrote 10,000+ words on civilian life in the Imperium...
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
No short stories that I recall - there's the odd quote in a sidebar, and every piece of artwork is of a named fighter.
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Post by: Baxx
 Barzam wrote:Oh, boo to that. So does that mean the Ambot is supposed to be the Van Saar pet, then?
I thought the Van Saar pet would be the skull with mechanic spider legs? Their logo being a spider and all.
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Post by: Clockpunk
Baxx wrote: Barzam wrote:Oh, boo to that. So does that mean the Ambot is supposed to be the Van Saar pet, then?
I thought the Van Saar pet would be the skull with mechanic spider legs? Their logo being a spider and all.
The artwork revealed on WHCommunity showed mech spiders, and someone said something about them being able to be assigned various weapon profiles.
I have to admit, very excited to see the new weapons, pets, and big guys options in GW3 - curse my online retaler for not sending the bits out so they arrive a day early!
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Post by: Baxx
I'm most excited about how they're going to solve the weapon profiles now that we get a new trading post. It's been complete chaos since the previous one.
For example Photo-googles, will it continue to be Rare(9)? If so, for which gangs would that rarity actually make a difference?
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Post by: Pacific
Ah - anyone up with current FW rates for that kind of mini? Perhaps £40-50, or am I being overly pessimistic?
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Post by: BrookM
20+ quid if the Blood Bowl big guys are anything to go by, but nowhere near as high as that horrible suggestion.
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Post by: DaveC
Looks a little smaller than a Dreadnought which retail for £32 -£36 without arms so £40 wouldn’t be out of the question. It hopefully closer to £30. But Necromunda pricing is odd the 3 pack hired guns are £20 but bounty hunters are £18 each.
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Post by: Pacific
Thanks guys - I guess watch this space then!
Of course the price is compounded by the fact you can't get the 20% off or so you can get with general GW stuff (buying through a retailer)
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Post by: ImAGeek
Pacific wrote:Thanks guys - I guess watch this space then!
Of course the price is compounded by the fact you can't get the 20% off or so you can get with general GW stuff (buying through a retailer)
Plus stupid postage prices unless you make a big order.
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Post by: zedmeister
Bloody hate Facebook, but managed to grab these:
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Post by: Mothman
My friend has book dropped me some info
Escher cat rarity 12, 120 points
mov 7" 3+ ws 2 attacks s3 2 damage -1 ap pulverise
-2 strength on fall damage
Ambot costs 215-305
grav gun- blast weapon
mov 4" ws3+ bs 5+ str 5 t 5 3 wounds 4+ save
base attacks 2 can go to 4 with combat weapons
has infiltrate
they can be captured by enemy and either sold or used by them.
Plasma canon is 130 pts melta 180
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Post by: zedmeister
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
So...Van Saar gets RA2 desolators now. That is cool.
I'm tempted to get Van Saar just so I can paint one of them up like this guy.
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Post by: BrookM
Cannot unsee now or unhear that voice.
Also, some of those Van Saar names are quite.. Dutch! Or quite close to proper Dutch names.
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Post by: Yodhrin
 zedmeister wrote:Doubt the AdMech have anything to do with this. Most likely Van Saar dabbling with their STC!
I very much hope not, the whole "oh yeah they totes have an STC that's super-sekrit shhhh" thing is already making a bit of a mockery of the AdMech(and basic common sense), throwing in local Robot manufacturing given the fluff surrounding the Legio Cybernetica would be...spectacular nonsense.
 BrookM wrote:I think it was posted earlier in this thread, but the AmBots use the brains of actual Ambull, so are more of a cyborg or servitor than proper robots.
Yes, which as I said, is how the Heresy-era bots were though using synthetic brains, and they stopped doing that for a reason, which leads to...
Barzam wrote:There's plenty of instances in the fluff of servitors having full on robot bodies. It isn't surprising that they'd do the same with industrial servitors like the Ambot.
Yes, servitors, which use lobotomised human brains and control wafers to keep them limited to their specific task.
This is why I find stuff like the Ambot so...irritating; it would take so little effort to make stuff like this match the existing background material even when making the prime consideration in development selling new models, but they don't even seem bothered to try.
For example - it's a Van Saar-produced industrial servitor - in the proper sense, human brain and all - and "Ambot" is a nickname because it kinda looks like one a bit. Gangs repurpose them by swapping out their control wafers with contraband Combat Protocol upgrades the Mechanicus use to repurpose Servitors when their facilities are invaded, but because they're stolen and resold and tweaked by Underhive cybertechs the wafers can make the servitor unpredictable. Bingo, all the same qualities of appearance and behaviour, all within the existing background material. Now, I can headcanon it that way easily enough, but fans shouldn't have to do that - headcanon should be like house rules, something you do to change the official material to something you like more, not something you need to do to fix the official material.
And yes, before someone feels the need to come along and state the obvious - none of this is a big deal, there are children starving in Africa and climate change and blah blah. It's just a minor annoyance, but it's one in a long line of such and they've been cropping up a lot more recently it seems to me.
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Post by: Tyr13
 Yodhrin wrote:
Yes, servitors, which use lobotomised human brains and control wafers to keep them limited to their specific task.
This is why I find stuff like the Ambot so...irritating; it would take so little effort to make stuff like this match the existing background material even when making the prime consideration in development selling new models, but they don't even seem bothered to try.
For example - it's a Van Saar-produced industrial servitor - in the proper sense, human brain and all - and "Ambot" is a nickname because it kinda looks like one a bit. Gangs repurpose them by swapping out their control wafers with contraband Combat Protocol upgrades the Mechanicus use to repurpose Servitors when their facilities are invaded, but because they're stolen and resold and tweaked by Underhive cybertechs the wafers can make the servitor unpredictable. Bingo, all the same qualities of appearance and behaviour, all within the existing background material. Now, I can headcanon it that way easily enough, but fans shouldn't have to do that - headcanon should be like house rules, something you do to change the official material to something you like more, not something you need to do to fix the official material.
Except that theres existing background that servitors arent always human based. Some servitors are based on cloned humans, some are based on human convicts, and some are based on non-human animals. Why use a complicated human brain for something that merely needs to dig? As long as it doesnt attack you and follows directions, you dont *need* a human brain. And something that basically just wants to dig is going to make things a lot easier for you. No need to perform drastic surgery to lobotomise the bits that could cause trouble, just inhibit aggression, make it happy all the time and add some controlling mechanism (which might be as simple as having it hear annoying noises from the side you dont want it to dig to.)
Being an animal with artificially decreased aggression also makes it a lot easier to remove those blocks. It could be as simple as disconnecting a wire, or even flipping a switch. Human-based servitors though? A whole other matter. To make a servitor safe, you seriously need to mess with their brain. And those changes are a lot more complicated than just decreasing aggression by keeping it drugged up on happy juice. A drugged human is way more unstable and unpredictable than a drugged animal. You need to actually remove bits to make everything work, which instantly makes removing blocks a lot more difficult... sure, combat servitors are a thing, but not for the public sector.
Overall, using animals is just way more efficient for what its supposed to be. So I really dont see the issue.
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Post by: BrookM
But yeah, what you described just now is what has been shared earlier as how the Ambot works: animal is great at digging, it just needs an inhibitor to curb some of its more aggressive tendencies.
Or, just disable the inhibitor when you are facing a rival gang and let it rampage, just be sure to have plenty of juves around to switch it off again post battle if it's not done via a simple remote.
Human servitors are heavily lobotomized most of the time, removing as much as needed so that it can just do simple tasks and nothing else. There are some more advanced models out there who have simply been mindwiped before conversion, like the servitor found in the Rogue Trader audio drama, which helps around with calculations and ship system maintenance.
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Post by: Haighus
 Tyr13 wrote: Yodhrin wrote:
Yes, servitors, which use lobotomised human brains and control wafers to keep them limited to their specific task.
This is why I find stuff like the Ambot so...irritating; it would take so little effort to make stuff like this match the existing background material even when making the prime consideration in development selling new models, but they don't even seem bothered to try.
For example - it's a Van Saar-produced industrial servitor - in the proper sense, human brain and all - and "Ambot" is a nickname because it kinda looks like one a bit. Gangs repurpose them by swapping out their control wafers with contraband Combat Protocol upgrades the Mechanicus use to repurpose Servitors when their facilities are invaded, but because they're stolen and resold and tweaked by Underhive cybertechs the wafers can make the servitor unpredictable. Bingo, all the same qualities of appearance and behaviour, all within the existing background material. Now, I can headcanon it that way easily enough, but fans shouldn't have to do that - headcanon should be like house rules, something you do to change the official material to something you like more, not something you need to do to fix the official material.
Except that theres existing background that servitors arent always human based. Some servitors are based on cloned humans, some are based on human convicts, and some are based on non-human animals. Why use a complicated human brain for something that merely needs to dig? As long as it doesnt attack you and follows directions, you dont *need* a human brain. And something that basically just wants to dig is going to make things a lot easier for you. No need to perform drastic surgery to lobotomise the bits that could cause trouble, just inhibit aggression, make it happy all the time and add some controlling mechanism (which might be as simple as having it hear annoying noises from the side you dont want it to dig to.)
Being an animal with artificially decreased aggression also makes it a lot easier to remove those blocks. It could be as simple as disconnecting a wire, or even flipping a switch. Human-based servitors though? A whole other matter. To make a servitor safe, you seriously need to mess with their brain. And those changes are a lot more complicated than just decreasing aggression by keeping it drugged up on happy juice. A drugged human is way more unstable and unpredictable than a drugged animal. You need to actually remove bits to make everything work, which instantly makes removing blocks a lot more difficult... sure, combat servitors are a thing, but not for the public sector.
Overall, using animals is just way more efficient for what its supposed to be. So I really dont see the issue.
This is how I see it. It is just an animal servitor. The Silica Animus was an entirely artificial brain with modular capabilities. Those are what is disfavoured by the 40k Mechanicus (I have never seen a source stating they are explicitly banned though, just considered dangerous).
The Ambot is not doctrinally different from a cyber eagle, and we know they exist.
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Post by: AduroT
I’m strongly tempted to replace my Genestealer Cult with Van Saar for more official support, plus I get to say Rad more often.
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Post by: Clockpunk
Hmmm... I see the gang description mentions a rad gun (as well as the cannon), but such a weapon isn't mentioned in the ganger builds... here's hoping its one of the secondary options and not being held back for the inevitable weapon pack(s).
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I think it's somewhat short-sighted to say that this Ambot doesn't fit with the established lore and is somehow "doing it wrong".
This is the Underhive. There's probably tons of unsanctioned and dangerous experimentation going on that the AdMech know nothing about.
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Post by: schoon
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:How's the fluff in the Gang War books? Do they throw in character pieces or short stories?
Short, but flavorful write ups on the various characters and His Guns from the book, as well as the background for the primary gang involved.
I find the fluff to be satisfying.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
H.B.M.C. wrote:I think it's somewhat short-sighted to say that this Ambot doesn't fit with the established lore and is somehow "doing it wrong".
This is the Underhive. There's probably tons of unsanctioned and dangerous experimentation going on that the AdMech know nothing about.
Especially as the idea of the Adeptus Mechanicus being omniscient IRT technology is blatantly false as they canonically don’t even know all of what’s in their own bloody library. Arkhan Land got his legend without ever even leaving Mars, by ‘discovering’ a bunch of blueprints on an expedition into the Librariam Omnis, not by crusading against heretics and xenos on the outer fringes.
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Post by: BrookM
It is said that they have a full STC library right under their noses, but don't know how to access it.
No Ambot yet, maybe next week or something they'll keep aside until Warhammer Fest, which is next week yes? Derp.
At least I got word that my bounty hunter has been sent out, so soon!
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Post by: zedmeister
H.B.M.C. wrote:I think it's somewhat short-sighted to say that this Ambot doesn't fit with the established lore and is somehow "doing it wrong".
This is the Underhive. There's probably tons of unsanctioned and dangerous experimentation going on that the AdMech know nothing about.
Indeed. Add to the fact that Brutes have appeared before (as part of the Tyrant's Legion list) as mutants or heretek creations. The underhive is a big place and having "official" patterns adjusted by the locals isn't a stretch by any means. A tweak here, a wire cut there and et viola - a handy murder machine. Just don't try to claim warranty on the thing...
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
That was the description Andy Hoare gave - the "Ambot" (or Luther-pattern mining robot) is basically a cyborg Ambull - as far as it's concerned, it's happy tunnelling away in its big, strong body. Until some gangers sneak in an pinch it from the mine and deactivate the control circuits. Then it goes back to being as unfriendly and dangerous as a wild Ambull. The one pictured in Escher colours is called "Mr Chomper".
The novel Space Marine had Squat miners riding on the shoulders of Ambulls (less heavbily cyborged than this one) with pintle-mounted multi-meltas. I feel a conversion coming on.
(by the way, Luther-pattern because Ambulls come from the deathworld Luther McIntyre IV. Presumably there are other mining machines made with the brains of other tunnelling animals)
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Post by: Pacific
 Mr_Rose wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:I think it's somewhat short-sighted to say that this Ambot doesn't fit with the established lore and is somehow "doing it wrong".
This is the Underhive. There's probably tons of unsanctioned and dangerous experimentation going on that the AdMech know nothing about.
Especially as the idea of the Adeptus Mechanicus being omniscient IRT technology is blatantly false as they canonically don’t even know all of what’s in their own bloody library. Arkhan Land got his legend without ever even leaving Mars, by ‘discovering’ a bunch of blueprints on an expedition into the Librariam Omnis, not by crusading against heretics and xenos on the outer fringes.
I have never known if the 'Arkhan Land' was an attempt at satire/ 40k-esque background that just missed the mark, or just a genuinely gakky and utterly needless bit of background re-design. But, I don't know why it annoys me so much
I suppose we can assume that we haven't yet heard of the exploits of Dave Storm, who made the Storm Raven, or the cross-franchise move of the Predator being designed by the Predator. Awful.
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Post by: WholeHazelNuts
I do love an Ambull... had to find my own for campaigns...
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
Pacific wrote:
I have never known if the 'Arkhan Land' was an attempt at satire/ 40k-esque background that just missed the mark, or just a genuinely gakky and utterly needless bit of background re-design. But, I don't know why it annoys me so much
It's been in the setting since at least 1990 (he's mentioned in the writeup for the Land Speeder in the revised vehicle rules for 1st edition 40k). It's just a cheap gag, that's all. Along with Birmingham, the black planet whose natives are renowned for their dull-wittedness. Or Obi-Wan Sherlock Clouseau, or the Space Wolves coming from the planet Lucan just so they can make a cheap gag that their Chapter Master is "Lord Lucan". Automatically Appended Next Post:
Whose Umber Hulk is that?
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Post by: WholeHazelNuts
It's from Knightmare miniatures - http://knightmareminiatures.com/
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Post by: Pacific
 AndrewGPaul wrote: Pacific wrote:
I have never known if the 'Arkhan Land' was an attempt at satire/ 40k-esque background that just missed the mark, or just a genuinely gakky and utterly needless bit of background re-design. But, I don't know why it annoys me so much
It's been in the setting since at least 1990 (he's mentioned in the writeup for the Land Speeder in the revised vehicle rules for 1st edition 40k). It's just a cheap gag, that's all. Along with Birmingham, the black planet whose natives are renowned for their dull-wittedness. Or Obi-Wan Sherlock Clouseau, or the Space Wolves coming from the planet Lucan just so they can make a cheap gag that their Chapter Master is "Lord Lucan".
Really is that old? I remember all those others but not Arkhan Land, thought that had been very much later. I obviously only came across it when it was re-printed in a later set of rules.
Was that in the vehicle rulebook with the marine (Dark Angel I think) riding the bike on the cover?
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Post by: JohnnyHell
Pacific wrote: Mr_Rose wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:I think it's somewhat short-sighted to say that this Ambot doesn't fit with the established lore and is somehow "doing it wrong".
This is the Underhive. There's probably tons of unsanctioned and dangerous experimentation going on that the AdMech know nothing about.
Especially as the idea of the Adeptus Mechanicus being omniscient IRT technology is blatantly false as they canonically don’t even know all of what’s in their own bloody library. Arkhan Land got his legend without ever even leaving Mars, by ‘discovering’ a bunch of blueprints on an expedition into the Librariam Omnis, not by crusading against heretics and xenos on the outer fringes.
I have never known if the 'Arkhan Land' was an attempt at satire/ 40k-esque background that just missed the mark, or just a genuinely gakky and utterly needless bit of background re-design. But, I don't know why it annoys me so much
I suppose we can assume that we haven't yet heard of the exploits of Dave Storm, who made the Storm Raven, or the cross-franchise move of the Predator being designed by the Predator. Awful.
Have an exalt. The “Land” naming retcon is just ridiculous.
Any word on a rules compendium or do I have to continue to sit Nucromunda out?
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Post by: Narandin
I guess everyone's mileage varies. I've never thought the whole 'Land Raider/Land Speeder being designed by a guy named Land was any more strange or ridiculous than the company that produces a Ford Focus was started by a fellow named Henry Ford.
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Post by: Thommy H
I thought Arkhan Land didn't show up until the Land Raider kit was released in 3rd Edition (I remember the White Dwarf article about him).
The logic imo was that "Land Speeder" and "Land Raider" are kind of silly names - a Land Speeder doesn't even move on the land, and what's land raider supposed to mean? It raids the land? But they sound cool if you don't think about them too much, so let's invent a reason to have "Land" in their names.
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Post by: Baxx
The conflicting weapon profiles continues in Gang War 3! So far I've discovered two different profiles for Web pistol (Cyberachnid vs Armoury). This is starting to feel like Borderlands.
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Post by: Adeptus Doritos
FYI, I've cracked open the Van Saar kit and it's pretty detailed and versatile.
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Post by: Thargrim
Hopefully the female arms are the same size as the male, I wanted to put the rad cannon on the female body. If the female bodies can only use the pistols then they won't see much use from me. I'm not sure I plan on taking any juves, and loading up on las weapons instead of pistols.
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Post by: Adeptus Doritos
 Thargrim wrote:Hopefully the female arms are the same size as the male, I wanted to put the rad cannon on the female body. If the female bodies can only use the pistols then they won't see much use from me. I'm not sure I plan on taking any juves, and loading up on las weapons instead of pistols.
They are all about the same, I got my womenfolk lugging Rad Cannons.
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Post by: richstrach
How modular are the basic weapons? The GW site seems to suggest there are only a couple of options for them.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
The modular weapon mounts are the most intriguing. I think it's a good way to open up variety. Of course, it'll probably just be a Van Saar thing, which is a shame.
In any case, looking forward to seeing what their FW weapon expansion kit looks like.
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Post by: AduroT
I’d wager take their house weapon list, subtract what’s in the kit, and what’s left is the forgeworld extras.
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Post by: Chopstick
I'm seeing FW making a bunch of extra pistol head : sub-carbine, inferno, hand flamer..... A few melee weapon, especially for the right arm, and a Shoulder mount plasma cannon.
The Bodyglove armor Van Saar had is an Undersuit armor, and everyone had them, even Juves, they don't stack with Undersuit armor.
Also
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Post by: Haighus
Chopstick wrote:I'm seeing FW making a bunch of extra pistol head : auto, inferno, hand flamer..... A few melee weapon, especially for the right arm, and a Shoulder mount plasma cannon.
Also
I could see some new rad weapons being a thing too, seeing as they seem to be angling for that as the Van Saar specialty
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Interested to see why the Baton (generally a one-handed weapon) and the Stave (generally a larger staff-like weapon) have such a hefty difference in cost.
Also a sub-carbine? And what is a suppression laser? A laser shotgun?
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Post by: Casbyness
Taking a wild guess that the 'big guy' for a Genestealer Cult gang will be a...umm...a genestealer.
So what's the deal with Gang War III? Is it as big a waste of money as the first two? Does the book include how to buy armour, any point values for it, and how it works? Or is armour still a total mystery?
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Post by: Chopstick
carbine is autogun but shoot laser
same for Suppression laser, shotgun shoot laser.
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Post by: AduroT
Baton has Parry, which the Stave trades for +1 S and a 2” Versatile.
The basic Carbine and pistol Sub-Carbine gives up 8” and 4” respectively off their Short range and go to Am 4+ to gain Rapid Fire (1).
The Suppression Laser is very similar to the Combat Shotgun, generally trading some hitting power and ability to hit multiple opponents for greater max range. It has Broad and Short burst modes. 4/8” +2/- 2 - 1 4+ Scattershot and 8/16” +1/- 4 - 2 4+ Knockback.
I’m playing around with building a gang. The desire to take multiple Special/Heavy Weapons keeps leaving me at only six members. Putting Rad Guns on the boss and champs is super tempting but I’m worried it wastes their 2+ BS. I might go all Plasma instead.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lots of rules on multiple kinds of armor and force fields.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and the only Big Guys are the Ambot and an Ogryn. Based on only those, a Purestrain wouldn’t fit the theme. Based on only this book I would be surprised if the White Dwarf gangs get anything special. They aren’t included in the updated house weapon lists, the bonesword and staff of office aren’t in the big armory list (but the more generic mining stuff is), and they don’t get any pets.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Ah, so the sub-carbine is an autopistol. Gotcha.
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Post by: AduroT
The Carbines are both slight but pure upgrades over Auto weapons, with the rifle offering an extra 2” of short range, and both having the Plentiful rule, with no downsides.
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Post by: DaveC
Can anyone with GW3 tell me what options Ogryns have? miniature wise are we expected to use the plastic Ogryns/Bullgryns set? Thanks in advance.
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Post by: AduroT
They have two Augmetic Fists, can trade one for an Arc Welder, and can purchase Furnace Plates. That’s it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, I just noticed what you meant by the hefty difference in cost between Baton and Stave. Yeah, that’s definitely a typo in the Van Saar listing. The Trading Post lists the Shock Stave as 25 creds.
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Post by: angel of death 007
Having purchased the box set awhile back I have wanted to get into the game but trying to finish bullding a house and living in a tiny rental has taken it's tool on my gaming, big time.
So aside from the box set I got WD April 2018, i know I need March 2018 for Genestealer cult.
They are releasing a lot of gang war books but are they acting more like codex's for the new gangs?
Basically what else aside from the main game may I need to enjoy the experience? By reading the side notes, probably Gang wars 1. Any advice?
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Post by: AduroT
Definitely GW 1 for the campaign rules. GW 2 has the extra fancy terrain/tiles and Hangers-On for gangs. GW 3 has the two new Big Guy Hangers-On, Pets, and an expanded/updated Trading Post. The previous White Dwarf had the Chaos Cultist gang rules.
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Post by: angel of death 007
 AduroT wrote:Definitely GW 1 for the campaign rules. GW 2 has the extra fancy terrain/tiles and Hangers-On for gangs. GW 3 has the two new Big Guy Hangers-On, Pets, and an expanded/updated Trading Post. The previous White Dwarf had the Chaos Cultist gang rules.
I got the April WD for my cultists and I definately gotta find the March WD because i love my genestealers cult. GW 1 I will get. Not sure what you mean by Hanger-On? So they each offer a little more game content.
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Post by: AduroT
Hangers-On are extra guys who join up and hang out in your base when your Rep gets high enojgh. They’re non-combat except for new Big Guys. I haven’t actually read the rules for the non-Big Guys...
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Post by: Mothman
AduroT wrote:Hangers-On are extra guys who join up and hang out in your base when your Rep gets high enojgh. They’re non-combat except for new Big Guys. I haven’t actually read the rules for the non-Big Guys...
Slopper (cooks food)- on a 6+ a fighter in recovery comes out due to being well fed 20 pts
Doctor- free medical escort for 1 person (though he can only stabilise no fully heal) 50 pts (you can have 2)
ammo jacks- services your weapons, re roll any natural 1 on an ammo check (can have 3 each one lets you go to re rolls 2s or 3s) 50 pts
Dome Runners- improve chances of getting special territory 20 pts
They are all pretty useful
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Post by: Adeptus Doritos
 Mothman wrote:
Slopper (cooks food)- on a 6+ a fighter in recovery comes out due to being well fed 20 pts
l
Sump Rat burgers must have some great nutritional value.
"Well, Carl got shot in the face but that burger brought him right out of it."
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Post by: AduroT
You can only have one hanger-on per five full rep, and if your rep drops they ditch ya.
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Post by: Crazyterran
Are you stuck building the load outs they suggest or is it more modular than the website implies?
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Post by: Flinty
If the weapons are as modular as the sprue looks surely anything can be bodgable with just a small amount of effort.
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Post by: Baxx
Breaking news in GW3: Juves can now take equipment that costs more than 20 points after their first game.
How do you solve this? I've built all my models already, and those eligible to be used as juves already have equipment that costs 20 or less.
If I want a juve with expensive equipment, I basically need 2 models, one with the expensive equipment and 1 that is only used the first game?
These limitations (like only 1 ganger can have special weapon before first game) is just absurd!
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Post by: ZoBo
maybe not the most ideal solution, also, having not actually built any necromunda models myself yet, I'm not sure how easy/difficult/impossible this would be...but could you magnetise arms/weapons?
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Post by: Mymearan
 ZoBo wrote:maybe not the most ideal solution, also, having not actually built any necromunda models myself yet, I'm not sure how easy/difficult/impossible this would be...but could you magnetise arms/weapons?
Well the whole point of loadouts being fixed (with leaders & champions having 2 loadouts) was so you wouldn’t have to.
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Post by: Baxx
ZoBo wrote:maybe not the most ideal solution, also, having not actually built any necromunda models myself yet, I'm not sure how easy/difficult/impossible this would be...but could you magnetise arms/weapons?
I quit 40k 10 years ago due to magnetizing. Never going back to a pile of bits.
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Post by: Neronoxx
Baxx wrote:Breaking news in GW3: Juves can now take equipment that costs more than 20 points after their first game.
How do you solve this? I've built all my models already, and those eligible to be used as juves already have equipment that costs 20 or less.
If I want a juve with expensive equipment, I basically need 2 models, one with the expensive equipment and 1 that is only used the first game?
These limitations (like only 1 ganger can have special weapon before first game) is just absurd!
Before: Guys couldn't take more than 20 creds of equipment.
= Limitation
Now: Guys can take more than 20 creds of equipment
= absurd limitation
I'm sorry, what?
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Post by: Vorian
Neronoxx wrote:Baxx wrote:Breaking news in GW3: Juves can now take equipment that costs more than 20 points after their first game.
How do you solve this? I've built all my models already, and those eligible to be used as juves already have equipment that costs 20 or less.
If I want a juve with expensive equipment, I basically need 2 models, one with the expensive equipment and 1 that is only used the first game?
These limitations (like only 1 ganger can have special weapon before first game) is just absurd!
Before: Guys couldn't take more than 20 creds of equipment.
= Limitation
Now: Guys can take more than 20 creds of equipment
= absurd limitation
I'm sorry, what?
The absurd bit is making it for the first game only. If it should be limited, limit it. If it's fine for them to have let them have it.
A pointless restriction to make you faff about for one game is just silly
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Post by: Flinty
The absurd limitation is that for the first game juves have a credit limit on their kit which is instantly.lifted after the first game. So to play full wysiwyg you need a starter juve model that is only.ever used for one game.
Bah ninjad
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Post by: Bi'ios
Flinty wrote:The absurd limitation is that for the first game juves have a credit limit on their kit which is instantly.lifted after the first game. So to play full wysiwyg you need a starter juve model that is only.ever used for one game.
Bah ninjad
So you’re telling me that, in a miniatures game where you customize loadouts and change the members of your teams, you might have models that get very infrequently used?
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Post by: Crimson
Flinty wrote:The absurd limitation is that for the first game juves have a credit limit on their kit which is instantly.lifted after the first game. So to play full wysiwyg you need a starter juve model that is only.ever used for one game.
Bah ninjad
It is the same sort of nonsense as with the trading post. You should be able to start with the common items from the trading post, as you can buy them after the first game anyway.
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Post by: Vorian
 Bi'ios wrote: Flinty wrote:The absurd limitation is that for the first game juves have a credit limit on their kit which is instantly.lifted after the first game. So to play full wysiwyg you need a starter juve model that is only.ever used for one game.
Bah ninjad
So you’re telling me that, in a miniatures game where you customize loadouts and change the members of your teams, you might have models that get very infrequently used?
The use of Duncey the unarmed Juve model is not the problem.
It's that there is literally no point to the rule. You have to mess about with it just because someone's decided to stick a pointless restriction in.
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Post by: RogueRegault
Crimson wrote: Flinty wrote:The absurd limitation is that for the first game juves have a credit limit on their kit which is instantly.lifted after the first game. So to play full wysiwyg you need a starter juve model that is only.ever used for one game.
Bah ninjad
It is the same sort of nonsense as with the trading post. You should be able to start with the common items from the trading post, as you can buy them after the first game anyway.
Well to be fair you don't need to model wargear on your fighter at all. Any wargear on your ganger model is purely cosmetic. (So you can use all the orlock goggle heads you want and save buying them for later.)
Technically speaking, you could buy the 160 credit full servo harness and just need to let your opponent know ahead of time.
ZoBo wrote:maybe not the most ideal solution, also, having not actually built any necromunda models myself yet, I'm not sure how easy/difficult/impossible this would be...but could you magnetise arms/weapons?
The Van Saar look to be trivial to magnetize as almost all their guns consist of a modular barrel that attaches to a trigger/stock held by the hand. The only limitation would be the two-handed lasguns, las-carbines, and suppression lasers.
Also the addition of the Hotshot Las Pack makes upgrading Eschers and Escher Juves simple enough as you just pay 20 credits to get S4 AP -1 on a model that already has a lasgun or laspistol. Automatically Appended Next Post: Baxx wrote:The conflicting weapon profiles continues in Gang War 3! So far I've discovered two different profiles for Web pistol (Cyberachnid vs Armoury). This is starting to feel like Borderlands.
To be fair, the Cyberarachnid is probably smaller than the usual web pistol so it makes sense for it to have lower strength. The Scarce trait addition is probably because it can't exactly reload without hands.
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Post by: timd
H.B.M.C. wrote:Interested to see why the Baton (generally a one-handed weapon) and the Stave (generally a larger staff-like weapon) have such a hefty difference in cost.
Also a sub-carbine?
In real world terms, a shortish rifle that fires pistol caliber ammunition.
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Post by: Baxx
Neronoxx wrote:
Before: Guys couldn't take more than 20 creds of equipment.
= Limitation
Now: Guys can take more than 20 creds of equipment
= absurd limitation
I'm sorry, what?
That's not what I meant. What I meant was absurd was that the list of accessible equipment would change just because of one game. That is something I detest in this game. I think equipment should be limited to the fighter's status (juve/ganger/champion/leader), not this pointless 'limit' of having played a single game or not.
I would just prefer juves to have a permanent limit of max 20 per equipment item. They haven't earned any respect yet, why should they have anything expensive?
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Post by: Gitzbitah
Baxx wrote:
I would just prefer juves to have a permanent limit of max 20 per equipment item. They haven't earned any respect yet, why should they have anything expensive?
Sometimes, no matter how carefully you explain to them that they're in over their heads, cannon fodder doesn't believe it's cannon fodder.
Hey- you don't know me. Do these make me look like a juve?
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
timd wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:Interested to see why the Baton (generally a one-handed weapon) and the Stave (generally a larger staff-like weapon) have such a hefty difference in cost.
Also a sub-carbine?
In real world terms, a shortish rifle that fires pistol caliber ammunition.
How would that work for a las weapon though?
Slightly bigger and stronger than a laspistol but smaller and weaker than a lasgun? So its a las SMG then?
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Post by: JoeRugby
Ganger : hey <insert preferred Leader slang>, my sisters kid wants to join the gang.
Leader: sure, chuck em a knife and a pistol and we’ll how he does on <insert mission name>
Ganger: how about we give him the combi plasma bolter?
Leader : <insert gang appropriate swear word> off
After <insert mission name>
Leader: you did ok <insert gang appropriate noob name>, grab something better than that pig sticker
Juve: *beams moronically *
Don’t see an issue with it, if you have an issue with it Baxx Don’t give your juves extra equipment
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Makes sense. Don't want to give a complete rookie a weapon that can blow your head off or kills the entire gang because the idiot doesn't have any trigger discipline.
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Post by: Yodhrin
You can come up with fictional rationales for just about anything, no matter how daft it is as an actual game mechanic. There are plenty of abstractions in N17, playing make-believe that your Juves have already had one mission "off-screen" to prove themselves in order to avoid a truly pointless(for players, anyway, it's great for GW's model sales...) fluff mechanic is hardly beyond the realm of reason.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
The larger question is why you'd ever want to give a Juve something more expensive to begin with...
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Post by: Dryaktylus
H.B.M.C. wrote:The larger question is why you'd ever want to give a Juve something more expensive to begin with...
True. I wouldn't give Juves anything expensive before they become useful.
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Post by: Adeptus Doritos
...there's a Van Saar head perfect for this. I might even paint him in obnoxious Mexican colors.
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Post by: Dr Mathias
Regarding the arming of juves, the old Necromunda anthology Status: Deadzone has a neat little story titled Mark of a Warrior.
"Armed solely with a stub gun and knife, the Goliath juve must venture down into a Milliasaur infested mine as part of an initiation test."
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Post by: Altruizine
Nobody should be playing with the strict WYSIWYG rule (or with the "models are stuck with their equipment all campaign" rule, for that matter).
Both of those rules were cynically inserted into the game to promote (*cough* extort) additional customer purchases.
Neither rule adds the slightest bit of value to actual gameplay or campaign progression. I'll fight you if you disagree.
Task #1 of anyone playing an N17 campaign should be to get all their peers on board with the elimination of both those rules (and I'm super sad for anybody whose gaming group is too stubborn/uncritical to agree to that)
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Post by: Adeptus Doritos
 Altruizine wrote:Nobody should be playing with the strict WYSIWYG rule (or with the "models are stuck with their equipment all campaign" rule, for that matter).
Yeah, the rule we're going with now is "At least the weapon". Then again, we mostly do regular skirmish games for now.
If you are considering playing, I highly advise at least getting three kits and build your starting squad out of the first kit, and keep the others on standby for when a dude gets a new gun or something.
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Post by: insaniak
Altruizine wrote:Nobody should be playing with the strict WYSIWYG rule (or with the "models are stuck with their equipment all campaign" rule, for that matter).
Both of those rules were cynically inserted into the game to promote (*cough* extort) additional customer purchases.
Neither rule adds the slightest bit of value to actual gameplay or campaign progression. I'll fight you if you disagree.
Task #1 of anyone playing an N17 campaign should be to get all their peers on board with the elimination of both those rules (and I'm super sad for anybody whose gaming group is too stubborn/uncritical to agree to that)
I disagree.
We've always tried to stick as close as possible to WYSIWYG around here. It looks better, and avoids 'Oh, wait... I forgot that he doesn't have that weapon anymore' type situations from cropping up mid game.
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Post by: Adeptus Doritos
 insaniak wrote:We've always tried to stick as close as possible to WYSIWYG around here. It looks better, and avoids 'Oh, wait... I forgot that he doesn't have that weapon anymore' type situations from cropping up mid game.
Let me know how that works out when you're running a campaign where you play 5 games a day.
Those grenades, knives, and all the other little doo-dads are going to start being a real pain.
Oh and have fun when you do your next campaign and all that stuff needs to come off.
I bet the unpainted models are gonna be a hit.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Thommy H wrote:I thought Arkhan Land didn't show up until the Land Raider kit was released in 3rd Edition (I remember the White Dwarf article about him).
The logic imo was that "Land Speeder" and "Land Raider" are kind of silly names - a Land Speeder doesn't even move on the land, and what's land raider supposed to mean? It raids the land? But they sound cool if you don't think about them too much, so let's invent a reason to have "Land" in their names.
Land Raider is a Judge Dredd reference.
Still waiting for my Killdozer 
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Post by: Dryaktylus
Altruizine wrote:Both of those rules were cynically inserted into the game to promote (*cough* extort) additional customer purchases.
Cynically? Sure, they want to make money with upgrade kits or bying the basic box twice. But changing or converting models throughout a campaign isn't really a new thing in Necromunda (except grenades, armour or some equipment - that was never a reason to change or modify models).
Altruizine wrote:Neither rule adds the slightest bit of value to actual gameplay or campaign progression. I'll fight you if you disagree.
Yeah, you could just play with differently coloured stones. Miniatures don't add anything in terms of gameplay and campaign progression.
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Post by: Yodhrin
insaniak wrote: Altruizine wrote:Nobody should be playing with the strict WYSIWYG rule (or with the "models are stuck with their equipment all campaign" rule, for that matter).
Both of those rules were cynically inserted into the game to promote (*cough* extort) additional customer purchases.
Neither rule adds the slightest bit of value to actual gameplay or campaign progression. I'll fight you if you disagree.
Task #1 of anyone playing an N17 campaign should be to get all their peers on board with the elimination of both those rules (and I'm super sad for anybody whose gaming group is too stubborn/uncritical to agree to that)
I disagree.
We've always tried to stick as close as possible to WYSIWYG around here. It looks better, and avoids 'Oh, wait... I forgot that he doesn't have that weapon anymore' type situations from cropping up mid game.
I'm always baffled that those kind of situations can crop up at all. Every single detail of both gangs should be written down right there at the table, and glancing at the cards/roster is just as easy - if not easier since there's zero ambiguity whether they have a lasgun, or a lascarbine, or a las sub-carbine, or etc etc - as looking at the model.
If people genuinely are running into this kind of thing on a regular basis, I'd mandate people bring an additional roster along for their opponent to consult during the game before I even considered enforcing strict WYSIWYG or the daft "no weapon swapping" rule - printing a sheet of paper costs pennies, extra models do not; printing a sheet of paper is easy, for some people conversions are not; better to have as few barriers to entry as possible and to focus strict stuff for where it actually has a meaningful benefit over the alternative, rather than just needlessly limiting people's budget and/or modelling creativity.
 Dryaktylus wrote:
Altruizine wrote:Neither rule adds the slightest bit of value to actual gameplay or campaign progression. I'll fight you if you disagree.
Yeah, you could just play with differently coloured stones. Miniatures don't add anything in terms of gameplay and campaign progression.
Err, it's the WYSIWYG side of this discussion that wants to treat miniatures like game counters who's primary value is in how they convey and adhere to the rules rather than models representing the characters that make up your gang.
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Post by: insaniak
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Let me know how that works out when you're running a campaign where you play 5 games a day.
Pretty well, for the most part. We would generally either sub in appropriately armed models as necessary, or leave bigger changes for between sessions.
It wasn't a criminal offense to use something that wasn't modeled. We just preferred to avoid it. Automatically Appended Next Post: Yodhrin wrote:
I'm always baffled that those kind of situations can crop up at all. Every single detail of both gangs should be written down right there at the table, and glancing at the cards/roster is just as easy - if not easier since there's zero ambiguity whether they have a lasgun, or a lascarbine, or a las sub-carbine, or etc etc - as looking at the model.
.
It's really easy in the middle of a game to forget to check. Harder to forget when the model is right there in front of you.
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Post by: Scott-S6
I'll see you outside then.
WYSIWYG should always be adhered to and not just in necromunda. I'm not coming around the table to check what's written on your roster cards every five minutes.
Also, given how infrequently equipment changes swapping equipment and touching up paint isn't actually that big a deal. At least it isn't essential that every character has a sword in addition to their rifle now. Swords in scabbards were surprisingly hard to find and that was when the bitz service was still running.
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Post by: Pacific
It says in the main Necromunda rulebook "arbitrators can amend rules and change things as they see fit" (paraphrased)
The new rule removing restrictions on juves, as has been pointed out, doesnt make sense for several reasons. Therefore, arbitrators should just ignore it and use the previous version of the rule. Simple
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I just arm people with what the model has. If I want them to have something else, then for the most part that's fine, but they'll always have what the model has.
So if I want my Lasgunner who is modelled with a Lasgun to have a pair of Autopistols, then that should be fine as long as he has a Lasgun, but if he has an Autogun and I give him a Lasgun, then that's not on.
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Post by: Mymearan
Altruizine wrote:Nobody should be playing with the strict WYSIWYG rule (or with the "models are stuck with their equipment all campaign" rule, for that matter).
Both of those rules were cynically inserted into the game to promote (*cough* extort) additional customer purchases.
Neither rule adds the slightest bit of value to actual gameplay or campaign progression. I'll fight you if you disagree.
Task #1 of anyone playing an N17 campaign should be to get all their peers on board with the elimination of both those rules (and I'm super sad for anybody whose gaming group is too stubborn/uncritical to agree to that)
Uh... the "models are stuck with their equipment" rule creates LESS purchases, not more. You have less freedom to change equipment around and thus less need for additional bits.
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Post by: Graphite
And this is why I hated the "house weapon lists" in the last version of Necromunda, and why they were instantly house ruled out of all the campaigns I ran.
And we tried for weapons wysiwyg, but nobody was going to be forced to add a grav-chute and infra goggles between games.... it just got too damn confusing otherwise.
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Post by: MonkeyBallistic
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Thommy H wrote:I thought Arkhan Land didn't show up until the Land Raider kit was released in 3rd Edition (I remember the White Dwarf article about him).
The logic imo was that "Land Speeder" and "Land Raider" are kind of silly names - a Land Speeder doesn't even move on the land, and what's land raider supposed to mean? It raids the land? But they sound cool if you don't think about them too much, so let's invent a reason to have "Land" in their names.
Land Raider is a Judge Dredd reference.
Still waiting for my Killdozer
Here you go;
https://2warpstoneptune.com/2014/03/18/matchboxs-adventure-2000-raider-command-1977/
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Post by: JohnnyHell
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Thommy H wrote:I thought Arkhan Land didn't show up until the Land Raider kit was released in 3rd Edition (I remember the White Dwarf article about him).
The logic imo was that "Land Speeder" and "Land Raider" are kind of silly names - a Land Speeder doesn't even move on the land, and what's land raider supposed to mean? It raids the land? But they sound cool if you don't think about them too much, so let's invent a reason to have "Land" in their names.
Land Raider is a Judge Dredd reference.
Still waiting for my Killdozer
And the Land Speeder is similarly nicked from Star Wars.
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Post by: Baxx
I see both sides of the WYSIWYG argument and quite enjoyed several of the humorous posts.
While I wouldn't enforce strict WYSIWYG on an opponent, I try the best to adhere to WYSIWYG myself. That means setting a core of the gang in stone, while having a few extras to swap with once there is development in the direction of rare & fancy weaponry.
This new way just breaks so heavily with the old. A juve is always dirty and poor, surviving a single game doesn't change that. Not until leveling up to Champion (previously Ganger) did they get enough status to be given more valuable weapons.
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Post by: Scott-S6
Although no-one actually says "land speeder" in star wars...
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Post by: Ascalam
I had one of those as a kid.
Ironically it got subbed in as a Land Raider a lot when I was just starting 40K 
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Post by: BrookM
Okay kids, this is about Necromunda, not toys with wargaming purposes. 
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Post by: Pacific
H.B.M.C. wrote:I just arm people with what the model has. If I want them to have something else, then for the most part that's fine, but they'll always have what the model has.
So if I want my Lasgunner who is modelled with a Lasgun to have a pair of Autopistols, then that should be fine as long as he has a Lasgun, but if he has an Autogun and I give him a Lasgun, then that's not on.
I think that's it really, it's all about intelligent and conscientious use of WYSIWYG - it's not just Necromunda but alot of similar campaign/development games going back over the years.
Things like pistols and knives can be easily hidden in holsters, bags and inside jackets.
But, it's when you get something like a ganger being turned into a puddle because the person playing didn't realise that the other ganger skulking at the back with a lasgun was actually toting a plasma cannon that's not really fair. For those kind of situations Id expect the miniature to be substituted - if not, put a token (or even weapon) on the miniatures base. It doesn't look very good but at least for gaming purposes gives the opponent a chance to remember what weapon they are using.
But, it is definitely something that has always been a problem for this kind of game. By the same token you can't really expect people to start chopping up their lovingly painted minis.
My way round it is to make a new mini with the correct weapon configuration so you just swap them - although that does get more expensive and time consuming.
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Post by: Adeptus Doritos
BrookM wrote:Okay kids, this is about Necromunda, not toys with wargaming purposes.
Yeah but that needs to be in the Caravan Mission or on my board now...
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
Pacific wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:I just arm people with what the model has. If I want them to have something else, then for the most part that's fine, but they'll always have what the model has.
So if I want my Lasgunner who is modelled with a Lasgun to have a pair of Autopistols, then that should be fine as long as he has a Lasgun, but if he has an Autogun and I give him a Lasgun, then that's not on.
I think that's it really, it's all about intelligent and conscientious use of WYSIWYG - it's not just Necromunda but alot of similar campaign/development games going back over the years.
Things like pistols and knives can be easily hidden in holsters, bags and inside jackets.
But, it's when you get something like a ganger being turned into a puddle because the person playing didn't realise that the other ganger skulking at the back with a lasgun was actually toting a plasma cannon that's not really fair. For those kind of situations Id expect the miniature to be substituted - if not, put a token (or even weapon) on the miniatures base. It doesn't look very good but at least for gaming purposes gives the opponent a chance to remember what weapon they are using.
But, it is definitely something that has always been a problem for this kind of game. By the same token you can't really expect people to start chopping up their lovingly painted minis.
My way round it is to make a new mini with the correct weapon configuration so you just swap them - although that does get more expensive and time consuming.
I build miniatures that look cool, then equip them to match. It might mean that I miss out on an "optimal" setup, but it's not that kind of game. Occasionally I'd add some more minis and convert a few. If building and painting another model is a downside, then perhaps this isn't the hobby for you?
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Post by: Clockpunk
Have to admit, I'm a little disappointed that there is only single (unmasked) female head on the Van Saar sprues... especially as a couple of the ganger pics in GW3 show some great female character concepts. Here's hoping the weapon pack won't take as long as the others have/are - and indeed features at least one alt head. Along with the rad gun (which is a very annoying thing not to feature as an alt. weapon on the base sprue) >.<
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Post by: ah64pilot5
Pacific wrote:It says in the main Necromunda rulebook "arbitrators can amend rules and change things as they see fit" (paraphrased)
The new rule removing restrictions on juves, as has been pointed out, doesnt make sense for several reasons. Therefore, arbitrators should just ignore it and use the previous version of the rule. Simple
What new rule on the juve restrictions? What/where is it?
And on the WYSIWYG, it has always made sense that the primary weapon/weapons should be visible and match, but secondary and war gear could be more flexible. I have no problem with a lasgun equipped model also having a sword and pistol but not having them modeled, or vice a versa depending on the pose, but if your gonna have a model with a special or heavy weapon, then its just nice to be able to pick those models out both as the primary player and also as the opponent. I would hate to run against a gang where each one is toting a pistol on the model, but every one of them has a different addition heavy or special weapon not shown,,, go the other way, not a big deal.
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Post by: Pacific
AndrewGPaul wrote:
But, it is definitely something that has always been a problem for this kind of game. By the same token you can't really expect people to start chopping up their lovingly painted minis.
My way round it is to make a new mini with the correct weapon configuration so you just swap them - although that does get more expensive and time consuming.
I build miniatures that look cool, then equip them to match. It might mean that I miss out on an "optimal" setup, but it's not that kind of game. Occasionally I'd add some more minis and convert a few. If building and painting another model is a downside, then perhaps this isn't the hobby for you?
Haha!
I love that part of it actually - but not batches of very similar minis with the same colour scheme, which you could end up doing if you have to paint lots of different weapon combinations. I have way to many things tempting me from the painting queue..
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Post by: Adeptus Doritos
Have any third party companies created weapons/bits options for Necromunda's new line?
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Post by: AduroT
Alright, got my starting six Van Saars built this morning and can report on the modularity of the kit.
Legs are specific to their body and only fit on one way.
All of the male necks are interchangeable, but the female has a specific neck so every lady will always be looking the same direction.
Any head will fit on any neck. You could if you wanted put dude head on lady body or vise verse.
All of the arms will work on any body and are not noticeably larger/smaller. The ladies don’t need to be dual wielding pistols.
Any gun barrel will fit on any gun grip. HOWEVER this is deceptive because some gun barrels only work with certain pairs of arms. One lasgun and the supression laser are made to be in the double handed relaxed pose. One lasgun and one las carbine are made to be in the double handed aiming pose. Every other weapon barrel is made to be wielded one handed.
111605
Post by: Adeptus Doritos
AduroT wrote:Alright, got my starting six Van Saars built this morning and can report on the modularity of the kit.
Legs are specific to their body and only fit on one way.
All of the male necks are interchangeable, but the female has a specific neck so every lady will always be looking the same direction.
Any head will fit on any neck. You could if you wanted put dude head on lady body or vise verse.
All of the arms will work on any body and are not noticeably larger/smaller. The ladies don’t need to be dual wielding pistols.
Any gun barrel will fit on any gun grip. HOWEVER this is deceptive because some gun barrels only work with certain pairs of arms. One lasgun and the supression laser are made to be in the double handed relaxed pose. One lasgun and one las carbine are made to be in the double handed aiming pose. Every other weapon barrel is made to be wielded one handed.
To add to this:
'Lady' head almost looks more like a young teen boy, but I suppose painting it a certain way would make it look more feminine? If you're not particular about maskless women, you could easily use these heads as young male Juves.
Pay careful attention to what 'Las' you use. There's a small difference between the Lasrifle and Las-Carbine's barrel shroud. Just in case you end up getting them mixed up and run into 'that guy'.
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Post by: Gimgamgoo
I haven't got my GW3 book yet. A friend tells me there's point lists for the earlier gangs in it. Have the points changed again? I only just made and printed cards for the Escher and Goliath gangs I have. I'd hate having to re-calculate, reprint etc before I even get to use them.
111605
Post by: Adeptus Doritos
 Gimgamgoo wrote:I haven't got my GW3 book yet. A friend tells me there's point lists for the earlier gangs in it. Have the points changed again? I only just made and printed cards for the Escher and Goliath gangs I have. I'd hate having to re-calculate, reprint etc before I even get to use them.
I can check.
And "I got you fam" if need be.
EDIT:
There are some additions of new weapons in there. Dude, you're gonna want that book.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
They've updated the Escher/Goliath/Orlock weapon lists to include the FW conversion pack stuff, right? So heavy bolters and hand flamers and meltaguns and whatnot are now available right from the start?\
Do Escher get a special rule if you buy all three weapon packs and use the 11 (or however many it is) hand flamers in a single gang?
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Post by: Dryaktylus
H.B.M.C. wrote:They've updated the Escher/Goliath/Orlock weapon lists to include the FW conversion pack stuff, right? So heavy bolters and hand flamers and meltaguns and whatnot are now available right from the start?\
Yes (Heavy Bolters are for Goliath and Orlock, not for Escher though*).
H.B.M.C. wrote:Do Escher get a special rule if you buy all three weapon packs and use the 11 (or however many it is) hand flamers in a single gang?
Well, everyone can take pistols and they're in the lists of all three** houses.
Edit:
*Van Saar don't have them either.
**Four.
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Post by: Baxx
Gimgamgoo wrote:I haven't got my GW3 book yet. A friend tells me there's point lists for the earlier gangs in it. Have the points changed again? I only just made and printed cards for the Escher and Goliath gangs I have. I'd hate having to re-calculate, reprint etc before I even get to use them.
Everything has changed: Rarity values (Bio-booster for example), point costs (Goliath Axe for example), weapon traits (Blaze, Webbed for example).
Skills aren't listed in GW3 so they have not changed. Automatically Appended Next Post: If you're going with 11 hand flamers, I suggest genestealer cults cause they only pay 50.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Not that I've seen but Mad Robot, Victoria's Miniatures and Minimax all have extensive lines of 28mm small arms that should fill most gaps.
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Post by: Haighus
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Not that I've seen but Mad Robot, Victoria's Miniatures and Minimax all have extensive lines of 28mm small arms that should fill most gaps.
Also Anvil Industries.
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Post by: ShortyPreds
The Guys from Mad Robot did some own Van Saar and so the heads for Gangers and Juves...without these big silly data wires in the back...if i would buy replacement heads...it would be from Mad Robot :-)
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Post by: AduroT
The wires are all seperate bits and easy to not use if you don’t want. I actually kind of like them better in person than I thought I would.
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Post by: Casbyness
So does Gang War 3 actually fix the rules about Armor or not? 
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Post by: Mr_Rose
What was wrong with the armour rules?
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Post by: Flinty
Like how you buy it? Or was that explained in GW2? I missedthatone out asim not that bothered about Orlocks.
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Post by: Chairman Aeon
Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Pay careful attention to what 'Las' you use. There's a small difference between the Lasrifle and Las-Carbine's barrel shroud. Just in case you end up getting them mixed up and run into 'that guy'.
I would except the instructions tell me nothing about what I'm gluing together or any options but what they show me. Seems like I need GW3 just to know what the weapons are.
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Post by: Haighus
Chairman Aeon wrote: Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Pay careful attention to what 'Las' you use. There's a small difference between the Lasrifle and Las-Carbine's barrel shroud. Just in case you end up getting them mixed up and run into 'that guy'.
I would except the instructions tell me nothing about what I'm gluing together or any options but what they show me. Seems like I need GW3 just to know what the weapons are.
If you look at the image in the post below, you can see the different designs at the bottom.
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Post by: Chairman Aeon
Haighus wrote:
If you look at the image in the post below, you can see the different designs at the bottom.
Thanks for the heads up. At this point I'll be happy I'm buying this stuff for the RPG because the difference between the lasgun and lascarbine is almost negligible. A fin is the difference?
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Post by: Adeptus Doritos
Chairman Aeon wrote:
Thanks for the heads up. At this point I'll be happy I'm buying this stuff for the RPG because the difference between the lasgun and lascarbine is almost negligible. A fin is the difference?
On the model, the Lascarbine is a bit 'fatter', but not much. You could also ignore that and use gun components with no stocks and say those are your carbines.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
Flinty wrote:Like how you buy it? Or was that explained in GW2? I missedthatone out asim not that bothered about Orlocks.
It’s on the trade post with prices and rarity as of GW3, if that’s what you’re looking for? There’s also a two styles of Carapace now.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
Previous to GW3, some fighters came with armour, some didn't and you couldn't buy it later, IIRC. It might not have been what people wanted, but I don't think it was unclear.
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Post by: Chopstick
Anyone with no armor can buy their house common armor, like GSC Leader can buy hazard suit, or Chaos Cult character can buy flak armor, and Juve after the Weapon pack.
They just couldn't get a better one like Mesh or carapace until GW 3.
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Post by: Mr_Rose
Neat. Van Saar hazard suit, Heavy Carapace, and a personal shield = 1+ save vs Attacks from the front.
Also about as many creds as a heavy weapon, but there you go.
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Post by: AndrewGPaul
Do you have no front arc when pinned, or a 360degree front arc?
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Post by: Adeptus Doritos
I can't see where it is specific about being pinned and your arc, but I do know when you're prone you have no arc at all. Automatically Appended Next Post: AndrewGPaul wrote:Previous to GW3, some fighters came with armour, some didn't and you couldn't buy it later, IIRC. It might not have been what people wanted, but I don't think it was unclear.
Van Saar, Orlocks, and Escher can all buy both Flak and Mesh armor from their 'house armory'- which means 'at creation'.
Goliaths can buy only Furnace plate at their 'house armory'.
From the trading post, which is a campaign thing that you can only hit after the first game- you can get other types of armor.
Mr_Rose wrote:Neat. Van Saar hazard suit, Heavy Carapace, and a personal shield = 1+ save vs Attacks from the front.
Also about as many creds as a heavy weapon, but there you go.
I believe it says anything combined with the Van Saar undersuit can only go to a maximum of 2+. I would have to look again later.
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Post by: BrookM
A question to those who have the van Saar boxed set:
What is the part in the middle of that sprue?
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Post by: AduroT
A random doodad they added in when they saw there was extra unused space. One possible use given was a biobooster.
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Post by: Adeptus Doritos
BrookM wrote:A question to those who have the van Saar boxed set:
What is the part in the middle of that sprue?
It said a 'lantern' somewhere, but it could be anything you need.
I was gonna use it as Spook Juice.
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Post by: Grot 6
You can drill a hole in the base, and use it as a light. It works on scenery as well....
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Post by: The Power Cosmic
Maybe the part that sticks in the hole in the middle to give it a handle?
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Post by: Flinty
That's what I thought to begin with, but then you would need 2 of them.
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Post by: Oguhmek
Andy Hoare said it was a flask on the twitch stream.
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Post by: Baxx
Maybe Van Saar or oher gangs simply would get away with using any lasgun/laspistol model as any las weapon (carbine/sub-carbine/suppression/long/pistol/gun).
Quite a few las weapons out now, plentiful of plentiful!
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