I find the CC threat range they put out allows more flexibility in board control then an equitable investment in more troops would provide. I also like the fact that, provided ample CP support, the Flayed Ones can take on just about anything.

They are aggressive area denial that can DS and do it quite well.

So the newly ranked #1 necron player placed 6th in the most recent GT (slugga):
4W 1L
Mephrit Outrider:
Destroyer Lord
Deceiver
3x6 Destroyers

Mephrit Batallion
Cryptek veil, chronometron
Lord staff, immortal pride(WL)
3x16 warriors(15 in one)

So uh... that's kinda weird.

 Brymm wrote:
That can't be right. The emergency beam has to over ride that as intended I'm sure, does it state in that Faq specifically the emergency invasion beam?

Right or not, it's the current wording of the FAQ.

Invasion beam is not mentioned explicitly.

That's why it's a beta rule. Make sure to send in the feedback to GW so they can be sure to clarify it when it becomes official.

So, wait....Mephrit, the DLord, and Warriors aren't the worst most useless things in the history of 40k?

That is weird. It's almost like the 6 weeks since the Dex dropped wasn't nearly enough time to collect evidence to make demonstrative statements about the units/dynasties within. Almost...

I don't see why we're comparing FO vs. Wraith against GEQ/MEQ. I expect FO to win every time because that is their prime target; it makes no sense to point a S6 -2AP 2dmg weapon at a T3/4 target with only a single wound...

A better comparison would be delivery and what they bring to the table.

For delivery, FO with DS will require 9" charge. Even with a warlord nearby with RR failed charge and command reroll a die, your odds aren't very great. Nephrekh Wraiths (what I run them as) have a 18" + 2D6" threat range using 1CP to charge.

I think most people agree that Necrons don't have that much for AV. My strat has always been to lock up vehicles that aren't being targeted by Destroyers/DDA. And what better unit than Wraiths with their massive movement and fly to bypass screens.

FO fill a slot, and unreliably so, that is better off done by immortals or warriors if you're targeting GEQ/MEQ. And if trying to lock up other things, well they don't have fly, so good luck getting them past the screens. If you're looking for area denial and more lockup, then a better unit would be scarabs/Wraiths. If you're holding on to them til T2/3 since there won't be as much dakka on the field, then you're just playing to Necrons RP weakness, allowing them to focus fire other units down with no punishment. Anyway, I just don't see a slot they fill that can't be done better by another unit.

/shrug
It still lost in the end.
I always admited that Mephrit was good with warriors and tomb blades.
Mephrit Destroyers and the mass of warriors is what's weird.

DLord is an enigma to me. I haven't bothered looking at it much as I see other factions having similar better things

If you're looking for area denial and more lockup, then a better unit would be scarabs/Wraiths.

I think that's two different roles, the latter of which I agree scarabs and Wraiths are more suited towards.

FOs excel at area denial because they legitimately threaten anything. Wraiths/Sacrabs are a tar pit that can get tar pitted themselves because they simply don't hit that hard. Novohk FOs can literally kill just about anything in the game. Bubble wrap is close to useless against FOs as they can quite readily chop right through it.

I think that's what most people aren't realizing. This is probably the hardest hitting unit in the entire Codex. You have to invest some CP to unlock its full potential, but that goes for most units in 8th. I haven't even mentioned the Novohk WL trait yet.

This is the kind of potential numbers you can see out of 20 FOs if you combine it all together (Novohk, Crimson Haze WL trait, MWBD, DF, BR):

Against T8 3+:
25.81 wounds.
Against MEq:
41.29
Against TEq:
20.64
Against GEq:
61.93

Granted, I'm just doubling the numbers for Blood Rites to simplify the scenario, you will likely take some casualties, but this is primarily to illustrate properly buffed FOs hit really really hard. Also, they do so through the flexibility of WL traits and stratagems. This important because if you need to pull back with them they have the full propensity to do so. You have tremendous amount of control over their damage output allowing you to frequently execute the ideal "kill them on their turn in CC" strat.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
So the newly ranked #1 necron player placed 6th in the most recent GT (slugga):
4W 1L
Mephrit Outrider:
Destroyer Lord
Deceiver
3x6 Destroyers

Mephrit Batallion
Cryptek veil, chronometron
Lord staff, immortal pride(WL)
3x16 warriors(15 in one)

So uh... that's kinda weird.

Either Deceiver the Warriors up to rapid fire, or deceiver the destroyers into firing position or cover turn 1. That's a neat concept. The mephrit on destroyers is a little odd...but I actually kind of like the list. I get that the warrior blocks are fearless from IP, so they are probably sticking tight in a block with the chronotek

Shadar_Logoth wrote:
So, wait....Mephrit, the DLord, and Warriors aren't the worst most useless things in the history of 40k?

That is weird. It's almost like the 6 weeks since the Dex dropped wasn't nearly enough time to collect evidence to make demonstrative statements about the units/dynasties within. Almost...

Thats why he only ranked 6th. If he had read this thread, knowing that those units are the worst, and choose other better ones mentioned here, he would have won

He ranked 6th due to battle points. There were 5:0 people bellow him.

Are you able to treat Kultakh as a Nephrekh? If so that is definite the way to go.

 Brymm wrote:
That can't be right. The emergency beam has to over ride that as intended I'm sure, does it state in that Faq specifically the emergency invasion beam?

Its a teleport type. Therefore it doesn't work 1st turn if the scythe is gunned down. The scythe isn't a transport its a teleport node as is very apparent from how it functions in the codex.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
So the newly ranked #1 necron player placed 6th in the most recent GT (slugga):
4W 1L
Mephrit Outrider:
Destroyer Lord
Deceiver
3x6 Destroyers

Mephrit Batallion
Cryptek veil, chronometron
Lord staff, immortal pride(WL)
3x16 warriors(15 in one)

So uh... that's kinda weird.

I don't think it's that Weird. There's 18 Destroyers, almost half the list is the best unit in the codex. The rest of the list seems built to support them in an interesting way. How do you stop someone from killing those Destroyers? Use the Deceiver and Veil to shove 47 Warriors in their face. To deal with the Warriors you need to focus down whole units to deny RP- not the hardest thing in the world to do, but it still requires considerable effort, effort that is not being directed at destroyers. If the opponent targets the destroyers early, it will be a lot harder to focus down the warriors in later turns.

As ever with the Deceiver, the list is a lot less impressive going second, the general idea still works, but hitting someone with 94 S4 AP-2 shots and 18 Destroyers before they get to respond is pretty massive.



On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Surround the Knight with wraith and he can't fall back because he cannot move over them. They are neither INFANTRY nor SWARM. Unless you have enough deceivers to mortal wound the knight to death wraiths and destroyers with MD are our most effective weapons i think.

 p5freak wrote:
Surround the Knight with wraith and he can't fall back because he cannot move over them. They are neither INFANTRY nor SWARM. Unless you have enough deceivers to mortal wound the knight to death wraiths and destroyers with MD are our most effective weapons i think.

That was my thinking with the Wraith, I'm not sure how long they can hold it or if they can get to it though. Tanks/MCs with invuls are always a problem for my crons, but a 3++ Knight takes that to the extreme. I reckon massed tesla is about as effective as our anti tank vs that.


edit: yep 10 Tesla Immortals do more damage than a DDA vs T8 3++.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Nope. You only make a knight a character if it's part of an IK super heavy detachment. Not an auxiliary detachment. If it's not a character, you can't make it a warlord and can't give it relics. The only way is if he took Canis Rex, but that severely limits his firepower. Canis Rex also has a predetermined Warlord trait and can't be given heirlooms (relics).

Skhmt wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Nope. You only make a knight a character if it's part of an IK super heavy detachment. Not an auxiliary detachment. If it's not a character, you can't make it a warlord and can't give it relics. The only way is if he took Canis Rex, but that severely limits his firepower. Canis Rex also has a predetermined Warlord trait and can't be given heirlooms (relics).

Oooh, are you sure? Is it a stratagem to make it a character? I think Superheavy Auxiliaries still unlock stratagems. This thing definitely had a relic, it was an "I delete QS vehicles" flamethrower.


Edit: Thanks for snuffing out hope p5freak. I'm sure you miss out on some aspect of the rules with a Superheavy Auxiliary but I can't remember what.

Skhmt wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Nope. You only make a knight a character if it's part of an IK super heavy detachment. Not an auxiliary detachment. If it's not a character, you can't make it a warlord and can't give it relics. The only way is if he took Canis Rex, but that severely limits his firepower. Canis Rex also has a predetermined Warlord trait and can't be given heirlooms (relics).

You are wrong. You can do it like the way he did. There was a post in YMDC I believe answering that question, if you can include a knight in a auxiliary detachment. Yes you can.

 p5freak wrote:

Skhmt wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Nope. You only make a knight a character if it's part of an IK super heavy detachment. Not an auxiliary detachment. If it's not a character, you can't make it a warlord and can't give it relics. The only way is if he took Canis Rex, but that severely limits his firepower. Canis Rex also has a predetermined Warlord trait and can't be given heirlooms (relics).

You are wrong. You can do it like the way he did. There was a post in YMDC I believe answering that question, if you can include a knight in a auxiliary detachment. Yes you can.

The question isn't if you can use a knight in an auxiliary detachment.

But yeah I forgot about the Exalted Court stratagem.

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know (roughly) where in this thread some ideas for the gauss mechanic were proposed?

I remember reading about a few suggestions on how gauss could work, rather than the flat ap value. I was hoping to review what some of those proposed changes were

 Dynas wrote:
Are you able to treat Kultakh as a Nephrekh? If so that is definite the way to go.

If you use a Dynasty other than one of the ones listed you get to choose a Dynastic Code, your units are still Maynarkh in this case, but they benefit from Translocation Beams. I posted short thoughts on my two battles with Kutlakh, one with Nephrekh, one with Maynarkh. Nephrekh game was against a massive screen of Pink Horrors, 3+ invul beats AP-4. I lost 3 characters and 20 Lychguard in a turn. In the Novokh game I went up against 40 Genestealers and the named Hive Tyrant and a bunch of artillery. I was able to beat his melee units, but with Novokh I was too slow to get to his artillery. I don't think Kutlakh works, foot-slogging Lychguard are terrible, Kutlakh needs to be quite OP to make up for that fact, he is not. Deceiver + Novokh is probably the way to go for LG.

punisher357 wrote:
Slightly off topic, but does anyone know (roughly) where in this thread some ideas for the gauss mechanic were proposed?

I remember reading about a few suggestions on how gauss could work, rather than the flat ap value. I was hoping to review what some of those proposed changes were

It would probably have been discussed before the cidex dropped, so perhaps in the old tactica thread

Pink Horrors only have a 4+ Invuln, unless he's popping a strat on them.

Hey everyone, I'm going to be playing in a fun league and am looking for your help to flesh out the rest of my list. I want to keep the melee Novokh outrider, is there any changes you would make to the battalion? The idea is Novokh units advance up the board with the tesla immortals following behind trying to get into rapid fire range for that ap-1. I'll either veil up the destroyers or telsa immortals depending on how well I can hide the destroyers.

A cool interaction is wraiths can fall out of combat and let my immortals fire away at the unit if needed and then charge back in. Seem like a fun list to play against?

So I've been playing with variations of D/Cult lists, I've found 3 squads, even though I usually only lose 1 squad a game, is too many. I find either one squad is out of range or a bunch from each unit are out of range. This is due to having to chain them around the cryptek to keep 5++ and RP.

I feel 2x 6 man squads is much more managable than 3x5 etc.

On the FO topic, yes I agree, they put out prodigious damage, but they are t4 4+ 1w infantry that deepstrike/usually are not supported, and if they are supported by a cryptek, they are slow as hell and not eating anything...

Wraiths on the other hand are ludicrously hard to kill, insanely fast and still put out respectable damage against most units. 3 attacks each on a squad of 6 is still 18 attacks, vs drukhari they wound on 4's with 2d, really eat venoms and ravagers alike.

Getting T1 charges off fairly reliably is still way more beneifical than DS'ing, hoping to make a 9" charge or else youll lose the squad.

I love FO, but on a competitive setting I find them underwhelming due to their significant drawbacks in comparison to the other CC unit we have.

(For reference the only other CC units i realistically count on to do any actual work in a game is a C'tan shart, usually the nightbringer. 8"M with fly, T7 4++ and terrifying within 12" means he gets to where he needs to be, stays there as long as possible and eats things alive).

thisgui wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm going to be playing in a fun league and am looking for your help to flesh out the rest of my list. I want to keep the melee Novokh outrider, is there any changes you would make to the battalion? The idea is Novokh units advance up the board with the tesla immortals following behind trying to get into rapid fire range for that ap-1. I'll either veil up the destroyers or telsa immortals depending on how well I can hide the destroyers.

A cool interaction is wraiths can fall out of combat and let my immortals fire away at the unit if needed and then charge back in. Seem like a fun list to play against?

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [49 PL, 895pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynastic Heirlooms: Dynastic Heirlooms: 1 Extra Artefact (-1CP)

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Mephrit

+ HQ +

Cryptek : Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Staff of Light

Overlord : Voidblade

+ Troops +

Immortals : 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals : 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals : 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Fast Attack +

Destroyers
. 6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [61 PL, 1105pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

[Reference] Powers of the C'tan (All)

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Novokh

+ HQ +

Destroyer Lord Artefact: The Nanoscarab Casket, Phylactery, Warscythe
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Codex 5): Implacable Conqueror

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs : 8x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Wraiths : 6x Canoptek Wraith

Canoptek Wraiths : 6x Canoptek Wraith

Created with BattleScribe

I think you'll get more mileage out of other WL traits. Enduring Will or Crimson Haze would be my best bet, you won't get a first turn charge regardless and you're moving 24+3D6" in the first two turns so getting in will be easy T2 in my estimation. I'd get a warscythe on the OLord, when you need extra attacks then the 1 attack is nice, but when you need D2 then D1 is real bad. Removing a Scarab Swarm makes your list better for ITC because Scarabs usually end up dying and the 8th one is going to die from morale anyways (I know you're probably not playing ITC, that's just how I'd get the 5 pts for the warscythe, having a list that's good in more formats also means you won't have to design a new list for each type of game you want to play). I'd also try Sautekh Battalion if you're willing to make your OLord your WL, hyperlogical strategist is definitely better than Implacable Conqueror and almost certainly also my other suggestions. As has been discussed trying to achieve Mephrit is dangerous, Sautekh is a lot more safe. If you face a list like I did with 30 Plaguebearers with -2 to hit until they get cut down to 20, then I think you'll regret taking Mephrit.

I tried out the DLord for the first time since the codex dropped, failed the 4+ to come back at the bottom of turn 2 with the nanoscarab casket and also failed my command re-roll. I was tabled by Tau on turn 6 in a CA Maelstrom game, I had 11 VP my opponent had 5 at the end of turn 5 but the game continued so I was wiped and suffered a crushing defeat.

 vict0988 wrote:

I tried out the DLord for the first time since the codex dropped, failed the 4+ to come back at the bottom of turn 2 with the nanoscarab casket and also failed my command re-roll. I was tabled by Tau on turn 6 in a CA Maelstrom game, I had 11 VP my opponent had 5 at the end of turn 5 but the game continued so I was wiped and suffered a crushing defeat.

Spoiler:

42 Models Sautekh Flyer-Wing + Sautekh Battalion 8 CP 1999

1 Night Scythe 160

1 Night Scythe 160

1 Night Scythe 160

1 Cryptek (staff of light + canoptek cloak) Relic (Veil of Darkness) 85

1 Destroyer Lord (warscythe + resurrection orb + phylactery) Warlord (Hyperlogical Strategist) Relic (Nanoscarab Casket) 171

8 Immortals (tesla carbines) 136

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 85

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 85

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

1 Heavy Destroyer (heavy gauss cannon) 57

I put all the Destroyers and my characters in a ruin, the rest of my units were on the Tomb World. The Night Scythes did rather poorly because I had no targets to use the Sautekh strat on, I ended up shooting single drones several times with 8 shots so my Destroyers could hit his Broadsides, here some Tomb Blades would have done a ton better. The mobility wasn't a very big deal against a gunline like the one I faced, more Troops would probably have done better, but then I did achieve 11 VP to my opponent's 5. My opponent was really far back and my Destroyers were in a huge blob meaning I only got to shoot 7 of them turn 1, that was a big mistake. For the Tau I think I would need more smaller units to get around their stratagems and markerlights to have a better chance. I don't think Night Scythes are the right supplement for a Destroyer Harvest except in a few circumstances, a Destroyer Harvest likely already has a good enough chance against melee foot-slogging list already. I might try stuffing the Night Scythes with Lychguard, but neither Novokh Nightscythes or Sautekh/Mephrit Lychguard appeal to me. Heavy Destroyers go very well with Night Scythes I think, so maybe I'll try running 3 squads of 3 HDestroyers and cut out 12 of the normal Destroyers, replace the DLord with a Lord.

That is a weird list. Three night scythes ? What a waste of points. No overlord to buff the tesla immortals ? No destroyer unit on the tombworld ? Get a DDA instead of 3 Hdestroyers, you get more firepower, more range, more durability.

 p5freak wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

Spoiler:

42 Models Sautekh Flyer-Wing + Sautekh Battalion 8 CP 1999

1 Night Scythe 160

1 Night Scythe 160

1 Night Scythe 160

1 Cryptek (staff of light + canoptek cloak) Relic (Veil of Darkness) 85

1 Destroyer Lord (warscythe + resurrection orb + phylactery) Warlord (Hyperlogical Strategist) Relic (Nanoscarab Casket) 171

8 Immortals (tesla carbines) 136

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 85

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 85

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

1 Heavy Destroyer (heavy gauss cannon) 57

That is a weird list. Three night scythes ? What a waste of points. No overlord to buff the tesla immortals ? No destroyer unit on the tombworld ? Get a DDA instead of 3 Hdestroyers, you get more firepower, more range, more durability.

One Night Scythe isn't useful for bringing in more than one unit, I wanted to be able to put my troops on the TW so I could grab objectives with them, hence 3 Night Scythes. An Overlord to buff 5 Immortals? What a waste of points. I had a 60% chance of going first, if I put a unit on the Tomb World it would be useless turn 1 guarenteed, I thought I'd be able to get in range with all 18 of them, but yeah, that turned out to be a mistake. Whether I had 12 or 18 on the board my opponent was going to pop a squad each turn (although he was unlucky and left one alive turn 2).

3 HDDs within 6" of a Lord have more anti-vehicle fire-power than a DDA does, they can also deploy on the TW, which is kind of the point of bringing 3 Night Scythes, to reliably get units out of the Tomb World, if I didn't make a list using that ability then 3 Night Scythes would indeed be a waste of points. I suppose I should say I'm trying to find the best Necron list with 3 or more Flyers.

 vict0988 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

Spoiler:

42 Models Sautekh Flyer-Wing + Sautekh Battalion 8 CP 1999

1 Night Scythe 160

1 Night Scythe 160

1 Night Scythe 160

1 Cryptek (staff of light + canoptek cloak) Relic (Veil of Darkness) 85

1 Destroyer Lord (warscythe + resurrection orb + phylactery) Warlord (Hyperlogical Strategist) Relic (Nanoscarab Casket) 171

8 Immortals (tesla carbines) 136

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 85

5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 85

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300

1 Heavy Destroyer (heavy gauss cannon) 57

That is a weird list. Three night scythes ? What a waste of points. No overlord to buff the tesla immortals ? No destroyer unit on the tombworld ? Get a DDA instead of 3 Hdestroyers, you get more firepower, more range, more durability.

One Night Scythe isn't useful for bringing in more than one unit, I wanted to be able to put my troops on the TW so I could grab objectives with them, hence 3 Night Scythes. An Overlord to buff 5 Immortals? What a waste of points. I had a 60% chance of going first, if I put a unit on the Tomb World it would be useless turn 1 guarenteed, I thought I'd be able to get in range with all 18 of them, but yeah, that turned out to be a mistake. Whether I had 12 or 18 on the board my opponent was going to pop a squad each turn (although he was unlucky and left one alive turn 2).

3 HDDs within 6" of a Lord have more anti-vehicle fire-power than a DDA does, they can also deploy on the TW, which is kind of the point of bringing 3 Night Scythes, to reliably get units out of the Tomb World, if I didn't make a list using that ability then 3 Night Scythes would indeed be a waste of points. I suppose I should say I'm trying to find the best Necron list with 3 or more Flyers.

It's always good to try things out.

Key is to bring in multiple units in forward positions for target saturation. Personally I find that throwing 6 wraiths up there with them helps a great deal with reducing fire on other units.

 vict0988 wrote:

One Night Scythe isn't useful for bringing in more than one unit, I wanted to be able to put my troops on the TW so I could grab objectives with them, hence 3 Night Scythes. An Overlord to buff 5 Immortals? What a waste of points. I had a 60% chance of going first, if I put a unit on the Tomb World it would be useless turn 1 guarenteed, I thought I'd be able to get in range with all 18 of them, but yeah, that turned out to be a mistake. Whether I had 12 or 18 on the board my opponent was going to pop a squad each turn (although he was unlucky and left one alive turn 2).

You can teleport in more than one unit with a stratagem. An overlord can buff up to 20 immortals, with a stratagem, your fault for only taking 2*5 and 1*8.

 vict0988 wrote:

3 HDDs within 6" of a Lord have more anti-vehicle fire-power than a DDA does, they can also deploy on the TW, which is kind of the point of bringing 3 Night Scythes, to reliably get units out of the Tomb World, if I didn't make a list using that ability then 3 Night Scythes would indeed be a waste of points. I suppose I should say I'm trying to find the best Necron list with 3 or more Flyers.

I played a 2k game yesterday vs Tau, fielding a Mephrit silver tide and tomb blade outrider, and won a quite crushing victory. S4 AP -2 shooting was the main workhorse of my army, though depended on deceiver and Veil to get in range and wraiths for distraction.

List:


I got first turn and redeployed Deceiver, wraiths, 20 warriors, and veiled up another 20 warriors , moved up CCB and ghost ark carrying the last 10 warriors.

DLord and 12 tomb blades moved up the left flank but ended up in the traffic jam in the middle. Great that they flew so could jump around where there was space, getting their particle beamers in range for their S6 -1 shooting.

S4 AP -2 was pivotal in driving fire warriors out of cover. Riptide was 2+/3++ so -2 made no difference, only for blades which were now that critical -1 AP.

Wraiths advanced (could not charge first turn) to end up 1" from the gun line. Problem is though that most of his big suits and vehicles are fly, so it'd be a waste charging them without comiting the rest of the army to take them out, which I would not because out of yeh Mephrit half range. So wraiths took out Pathfinders and kept transport busy from charging my warriors (very important)

He spent first turn shooting 5 out of 6 wraiths, I reanimated 2, and shot 14 warriors, I got back ~10 with help of GArk.

I lost the deceiver to his Commander and the GArk to his Longstride or some such, big cannon tank character with Fly. It was the only viable target for his anti tank.

He soon was out gunned in the center.

He had stealth suits and ghost keel on my right, and soon his commander, which almost tipped the balance in his favour, but tomb blades could get there, GArk unloaded 10 warriors and soon hat situation was under control.

At turn 5 he had Ghost keel with 1 wound, Longstride with 1 wound, broadsides locked in CC, some drones here and there, I held all key markers for the Eternal War mission, and although the game would go on, we called it.

Picture after my turn 1 movement. His ghost keel and stealth suits are not seen to my right.

The list would struggle more against cc oriented lists. Might swap in Anrakyr to help with that.

torblind wrote:

S4 AP -2 was pivotal in driving fire warriors out of cover. Riptide was 2+/3++ so -2 made no difference, only for blades which were now that critical -1 AP.

Riptide can get 3++ by using nova reactor on his movement, and suffering MW.
Its 5++ on your first turn, have a talk.

Ah. Turn 1 I shot the fire warriors in front of him


I had planned to not worry too much about the Riptide but turn 2 warriors didn't have any better targets so shot at him anyway and brought him down 7-8 wounds or so. Which was awesome and I easily killed him off turn 3

torblind wrote:
I played a 2k game yesterday vs Tau

Awesome, nice battlereport!

Got a couple of questions:

-No anti-tank?! Very brave! What was your plan behind this, ignore the enemy armour or rely on massive Gauss fire to deal with enemy tanks?

-No scarabs/units to hold back-field objectives. You felt like you missed that a lot?

-Interesting choice on the Tomb Blades /w Particle Beamers. Did you not feel like you were missing out on a lot of fire-power, considering how powerful Mephrit Tesla is?

-How useful was the Ghost Ark in general? Did he really help a lot with the RP?
I would personally have skipped the GA and put in more Warriors/Tesla Tomb Blades. Then Deceive those up and let the Wraiths just 'footslog' forward. If you get a decent roll on the advance, you might even be able to pull of a turn 1 charge with them.

-How useful was the Chronemetron on the Cryptek? I know it's only 15 points, but would a naked Cryptek have done the same job?
Or you can turn him into a Cloaktek and turn the CCB into an Overlord /w the Veil of Darkness. Saves a lot of points while keeping the mobility for both HQ's.

Doctoralex wrote:

torblind wrote:
I played a 2k game yesterday vs Tau

Awesome, nice battlereport!

Got a couple of questions:

-No anti-tank?! Very brave! What was your plan behind this, ignore the enemy armour or rely on massive Gauss fire to deal with enemy tanks?

-No scarabs/units to hold back-field objectives. You felt like you missed that a lot?

-Interesting choice on the Tomb Blades /w Particle Beamers. Did you not feel like you were missing out on a lot of fire-power, considering how powerful Mephrit Tesla is?

-How useful was the Ghost Ark in general? Did he really help a lot with the RP?
I would personally have skipped the GA and put in more Warriors/Tesla Tomb Blades. Then Deceive those up and let the Wraiths just 'footslog' forward. If you get a decent roll on the advance, you might even be able to pull of a turn 1 charge with them.

-How useful was the Chronemetron on the Cryptek? I know it's only 15 points, but would a naked Cryptek have done the same job?
Or you can turn him into a Cloaktek and turn the CCB into an Overlord /w the Veil of Darkness. Saves a lot of points while keeping the mobility for both HQ's.

Thanks.

- About tanks: Anti-tank is definitely a weakness. My plan was to have wraiths harass tanks if need be, later helped by destroyer lord, and equally importantly have as much of my army in up close as soon as possible for target saturation and so that even if he picked one unit off, the rest of it would soon be brought to bare in half range. With only tanks left, it would still have been an up-hill battle for him. Things definitely need to be revised before going up against a 4-5 LRBT AM army.

- Ok with no Scarabs? Sort of.. we played Eternal War mission nr 1 from CA book, a mission where we only scored at end of game (agreed on Eternal war beforehand). But during-turn objective scoring could still have been a thing. My plan was to either cover enough ground with warriors to let one stray of to hold an objective, or let tomb blades run off to hold one. His deep striking Commander did get to harass my characters though, perhaps unnecessarily being allowed to gun down the Deceiver (after I sent the Deceiver off to help against stealth suits in cc with my warriors). But board control was managable against a gunline such as this.

- Did I miss Tesla tomb blades? Not really. Against T3 targets, the S6 makes up for some of it. There would also be -1 to hit to go around, which cancels out the tesla advantage almost all together. This was also meant to be a harassing skirmish force, cheap was key, the more models the merrier. If they drew fire from my warriors, then fine. Also except for stealth suits and Riptide and Longstrike, his army was T3, T5 and T6, all of which favor S6 to S5. So all in all, for what I got for the points, I think it was ok to go with beamers. I could have used more shield vanes though. Your suggested HQ swap could have fixed that. The CCB Gauss cannon did next to nothing, as it moved almost every turn, and was set to deal with the -1 to hit flank (stealth/ghost)

- Ghost Ark useful? It was shot dead bottom of turn 2, exploded, causing havoc in my ranks. It did get me back some 5-6 warriors the one time I got to do the extra RP roll. Tau Longstrike was unable to do much to it with its D6 damage, it was a S7 D2 weapon from the Riptide (perfectly suited to bring down ghost ark), that did it in. Taking that fire meant the Riptide didn't instead wipe a unit of tomb blades or 7 warriors, letting them march further to actually shoot dead the Riptide. He did clear a total of 10-12 enemy models with the gauss arrays too. For this list, the Ghost Ark could be potensially very vaulable. Enough so that it would be a focused target. The way I see it, if a unit of yours is considered valuable enough by your opponent that he kills it early, its most likely a very good choice for you to bring. He may be right or wrong, but you still force his choice. Also there wasnt really physical room for more warriors as I closed in on him. Not in RF range at least. Having a 10 warriors payload inside it also is a nice flexible asset to have available. Helped me adapt to his Ghostkeel/Stealth suit flank, getting 20 extra S4 AP-2 shots where they needed to be when I needed them.

- I don't think the warriors were hit with an AP-2 weapon once this battle. so the chronometron was likely never in effect. I brought it for that one occasion where he would near-wipe a untit of warriors and then brought his heavy AP weapon to bear just to finish it off. Keeping those warrior blobs alive to win by attrition the focus of my list. However the swap you suggest would be very interesting. The CCB didnt bring much to the table. He was never >6" from the unit he chose to MWBD, and the gauss cannon underperformed wildly, inflicting 4 damage total during 5 turns. The mephrit special staff would probably have been better. Still the movement of the CCB is nice to adapt to changing battle fields. Shouldnt underestimate speed. Still the extra points saved would be nice for extra wargear for the blades, and he could help a little bit keeping the GA alive.

 p5freak wrote:
Any necron flyer is a waste of points.

Probably, but you won't be the person to find any hidden gems in the codex with that attitude, I'm planning on playing at least 3 games with each unit before throwing it away entirely, but I understand if you can't afford to do this because you don't have the models and you aren't willing to proxy or if you're playing against tournament lists that will wipe the floor with you if you bring any non-optimal units. My opponent specifically requested a non-tournament list, it's not like it takes a genius to look up the Necron lists that do well in tournaments and see that none of them have flyers.

torblind wrote:

Spoiler:

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [45 PL, 758pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Mephrit

+ HQ +

Destroyer Lord [7 PL, 131pts]: Artefact: The Nanoscarab Casket, Phylactery, Warscythe

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 330pts]: 6x Canoptek Wraith

Tomb Blades [10 PL, 150pts]
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer

Tomb Blades [10 PL, 147pts]
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer, Shieldvanes
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Particle Beamer

++ Total: [109 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Why not make the Outrider Nephrekh? Split one of the TB units into 2x3 and put the remaining 6-man squad in the Mephrit Battalion, if not replace the second squad with Scarabs. 2 CP for 4+ RP vs 1 CP for 6" extra movement on the Wraiths I think the 6" move is better when you only have 8 CP. You also get to move 20" with your TBs and you don't have to waste your 24" range on getting within 12". Try taking Anrakyr, MWBD the unit you're going to Veil turn 1, stick him in the Ghost Ark, move it up. Miss one turn of MWBD, but you get +1 A on all your Warriors turn 2+.

Skhmt wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Nope. You only make a knight a character if it's part of an IK super heavy detachment. Not an auxiliary detachment. If it's not a character, you can't make it a warlord and can't give it relics. The only way is if he took Canis Rex, but that severely limits his firepower. Canis Rex also has a predetermined Warlord trait and can't be given heirlooms (relics).

Here is a question not sure if it’s been covered yet there is a Knight weapon that does 10 damage is this an auto ignore for quantum shielding if it is that’s funny!!!

Curious79 wrote:

Skhmt wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Nope. You only make a knight a character if it's part of an IK super heavy detachment. Not an auxiliary detachment. If it's not a character, you can't make it a warlord and can't give it relics. The only way is if he took Canis Rex, but that severely limits his firepower. Canis Rex also has a predetermined Warlord trait and can't be given heirlooms (relics).

Here is a question not sure if it’s been covered yet there is a Knight weapon that does 10 damage is this an auto ignore for quantum shielding if it is that’s funny!!!

Yes, you are correct. Which is why vehicle spam is hilarious in Apoc-level games.

Quick question on the CTan Power I think it’s times arrow what wound count do you use is it what they are on when you use it or at the start of the battle

Curious79 wrote:
Quick question on the CTan Power I think it’s times arrow what wound count do you use is it what they are on when you use it or at the start of the battle

I'm pretty sure the wording is their Wound characteristic, which would mean the wounds they started with.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Curious79 wrote:
Quick question on the CTan Power I think it’s times arrow what wound count do you use is it what they are on when you use it or at the start of the battle

I'm pretty sure the wording is their Wound characteristic, which would mean the wounds they started with.

Yeah it has nothing to do with remaining wounds

torblind wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Curious79 wrote:
Quick question on the CTan Power I think it’s times arrow what wound count do you use is it what they are on when you use it or at the start of the battle

I'm pretty sure the wording is their Wound characteristic, which would mean the wounds they started with.

Yeah it has nothing to do with remaining wounds

Thanks a lot it’s just alot of bat reps I have seen have taken as their wounds characteristic at that time and I was think fantastic!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Raven Guard up next please help thinking try and get the best Melee units it’s quick to hold up do some damage while the rest move up thinking Orikan with WSLG trying to think how to get around the -1 to hit for the DDA outwith M.D. i think they will really suffer what about HD? if there isn’t my anti tank will be the LG loads of MWBD Tesla any other thoughts would be much appreciated I will get a list up and let you guys pick it apart constructively or not

I played tournament last weekend. Between 4 games i had "luck" to play 3 of them against new knights codex. I can say you, its a real problem for us. Btw, 4th game was against imperial guard and i won it 20-0.

My list:


Opponent lists:
1. Bobby G, 3 Knights, 3x5 mechs, 2 mech solos - lost 0-20 to that one
2. Biggest Knight, 2 knights smaller, 2 armigers, 3x5 mechs, 2 mech solos - won 12-8, but only due to a VERY good table - lot of ruins and walls. Knights loose 8" movement passing over those.
3. 4 knights, some IG troops - played 2 turns, then my opponent told me he have to drop from tournament. I feel that it goes to draw - I lost 2 DDA and 3 destroyers, but was able to kill 1 knight and engage another one with 5 wounds left by wraiths, immortals were veiled at his deploy. Still, that would be something about 10-10 or even worse - 2 knights kill DDA and my army, immortals kill his home units.

How games went: Opponent usually goes first. He walks knights, and with 3 gatling cannons (38 shots at s6 -2 2) and some other shooting kills 2 DDA. Then i do about 20 wounds to 1 knight. He ignores lower profile and keep killing my antitank till its over.

Basic knight is 28 wounds 3+ 5++. 12 shots s6 -2 2; Battlecannon - 2d6 shots s8 -2 d3; 2 Stubbers, 1 grenade launcher d6 shots s5 -1 2. House which gives them 6+ fnp and stratagem to resurrect like necrons characters - on 4+ at the end of phase. In melee they make 12 attacks 8 -2 d3. Cannot be engaged in most cases, walk through infantry and swarm, can charge after leaving combat. Just a powerhouse. Relics are 2+ save, 4++. On top of that, they can ignore lower profile with stratagem, charge after advance, one might have +1 invul whole phase when you target him with shooting.

Honestly i cant imagine what we can do here to win. To take some points - i do, but how to win - no idea.

Skhmt wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Nope. You only make a knight a character if it's part of an IK super heavy detachment. Not an auxiliary detachment. If it's not a character, you can't make it a warlord and can't give it relics. The only way is if he took Canis Rex, but that severely limits his firepower. Canis Rex also has a predetermined Warlord trait and can't be given heirlooms (relics).

You can also use one strategem to make him character with warlord and/or another strategem to make him character and give him relic. Note that the relic strategem alone makes the knight character so you don't need to use BOTH strategems to get relic. So basically:

1CP: Either warlord trait or relic.
2CP: Both warlord trait and relic.

Or both strategems have 3 CP version for 2 knights.

-Sentinel- wrote:
I played tournament last weekend. Between 4 games i had "luck" to play 3 of them against new knights codex. I can say you, its a real problem for us. Btw, 4th game was against imperial guard and i won it 20-0.

My list:

Spoiler:

Nephrekh +5 CP
HQ: Overlord (84) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [87] Warlord: Immortal Pride
HQ: Overlord (84) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [87] Artefact: Veil of Darkness
Troops: 10x Immortals with Tesla Carbine [170]
Troops: 10x Immortals with Tesla Carbine [170]
Troops: 10x Immortals with Tesla Carbine [170]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Fast Attack: 9x Canoptek Scarabs [107]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 6x Canoptek Wraith [330]

Total: 2000
CP: 8

Opponent lists:
1. Bobby G, 3 Knights, 3x5 mechs, 2 mech solos - lost 0-20 to that one
2. Biggest Knight, 2 knights smaller, 2 armigers, 3x5 mechs, 2 mech solos - won 12-8, but only due to a VERY good table - lot of ruins and walls. Knights loose 8" movement passing over those.
3. 4 knights, some IG troops - played 2 turns, then my opponent told me he have to drop from tournament. I feel that it goes to draw - I lost 2 DDA and 3 destroyers, but was able to kill 1 knight and engage another one with 5 wounds left by wraiths, immortals were veiled at his deploy. Still, that would be something about 10-10 or even worse - 2 knights kill DDA and my army, immortals kill his home units.

How games went: Opponent usually goes first. He walks knights, and with 3 gatling cannons (38 shots at s6 -2 2) and some other shooting kills 2 DDA. Then i do about 20 wounds to 1 knight. He ignores lower profile and keep killing my antitank till its over.

Basic knight is 28 wounds 3+ 5++. 12 shots s6 -2 2; Battlecannon - 2d6 shots s8 -2 d3; 2 Stubbers, 1 grenade launcher d6 shots s5 -1 2. House which gives them 6+ fnp and stratagem to resurrect like necrons characters - on 4+ at the end of phase. In melee they make 12 attacks 8 -2 d3. Cannot be engaged in most cases, walk through infantry and swarm, can charge after leaving combat. Just a powerhouse. Relics are 2+ save, 4++. On top of that, they can ignore lower profile with stratagem, charge after advance, one might have +1 invul whole phase when you target him with shooting.

Honestly i cant imagine what we can do here to win. To take some points - i do, but how to win - no idea.

That was a disheartening read

tneva82 wrote:

Skhmt wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On an unrelated note:

Has anyone had to deal with one of the new Knights? If my last opponent was playing correctly, you can take one Knight as a superheavy Auxiliary in an imperium list, make it the Warlord and use a combo of relics and stratagems to give it a 3++ vs shooting. I could not deal with that. It's firepower was enough that I couldn't ignore it but I don't see a way to kill it efficiently. Grabbing it with a unit of Wraith might work.

Nope. You only make a knight a character if it's part of an IK super heavy detachment. Not an auxiliary detachment. If it's not a character, you can't make it a warlord and can't give it relics. The only way is if he took Canis Rex, but that severely limits his firepower. Canis Rex also has a predetermined Warlord trait and can't be given heirlooms (relics).

You can also use one strategem to make him character with warlord and/or another strategem to make him character and give him relic. Note that the relic strategem alone makes the knight character so you don't need to use BOTH strategems to get relic. So basically:

1CP: Either warlord trait or relic.
2CP: Both warlord trait and relic.

Or both strategems have 3 CP version for 2 knights.

I know it’s a huge financial investment I think ForgeWorld tech is our only answer Arks Pylons and the new Titan anybody seen the rules for it yet? Do any of these knights have Titan keyword though?

-Sentinel- wrote:

Basic knight is 28 wounds 3+ 5++. 12 shots s6 -2 2; Battlecannon - 2d6 shots s8 -2 d3; 2 Stubbers, 1 grenade launcher d6 shots s5 -1 2. House which gives them 6+ fnp and stratagem to resurrect like necrons characters - on 4+ at the end of phase. In melee they make 12 attacks 8 -2 d3. Cannot be engaged in most cases, walk through infantry and swarm, can charge after leaving combat. Just a powerhouse. Relics are 2+ save, 4++. On top of that, they can ignore lower profile with stratagem, charge after advance, one might have +1 invul whole phase when you target him with shooting.

Honestly i cant imagine what we can do here to win. To take some points - i do, but how to win - no idea.

Good news: Only 24 wounds. 28 is on the biggest chassis only which costs ~600 pts(compared to 350-450 for basic knight chassises) and pays 3CP for extra invulnerable strategem(the strategem you mentioned last. Though mind you it's not shooting but invulnerable save period. Usually means shooting as usually knight save is inv only but there's relic that gives 5++ also in h2h).

Also it can walk through infantry and swarm ONLY when it's falling back. On normal movement and charge THEY CANNOT! Keep this in mind. Park scarab swarm front of knights and they have to move around them(or charge them). My orks would have fun facing h2h based knights. Just keep da jumping line of grots front of them. Have fun charging this grot squad. Shooty knights alas would be more annoying.

9 scarabs wont survive one turn against a knight. A shooty knight will kill them before they get to him, and finish the rest in melee. A CC knight will need 1-2 turns to kill them, more like 1 turn. Knights can still shoot and/or charge when they fall back. He doesnt even have to bother with them, when you charge him he can choose to ignore them and walk over them. There is a CC knight which can advance 2D6+2 discarding lowest dice, and charge 3D6+2 discarding lowest dice. His basic movement is 12". With a stratagem he can charge after advancing. Thats a threat range of ~30".

 p5freak wrote:
9 scarabs wont survive one turn against a knight. A shooty knight will kill them before they get to him, and finish the rest in melee. A CC knight will need 1-2 turns to kill them, more like 1 turn. Knights can still shoot and/or charge when they fall back. He doesnt even have to bother with them, when you charge him he can choose to ignore them and walk over them. There is a CC knight which can advance 2D6+2 discarding lowest dice, and charge 3D6+2 discarding lowest dice. His basic movement is 12". With a stratagem he can charge after advancing. Thats a threat range of ~30".

Well yes point wouldn't be to lock them forever but delay them. 10 gretchins won't survive long either. But it will keep h2h knight for 1 turn from charging anything valuable. And you don't charge but go front of him. If he goes sideways good. Takes more time. If not he's stuck as he can't go over them.

Albeit I don't know how expensive scarabs are per area covered. With grots it's cheap to surround knight so that it either shoots(useless with gallant for example) only or charges the chaff you put front as it cannot bypass.

knight

screen

your big unit

As long as screen is wide enough he can't go sideways long(or screen completely surrounds knight) your big unit is 100% safe from the charge.

30 grots gives me screen of 60"(more if they are in separate units as big base of knight means I don't need to have very small gaps only between models) that he cannot get past without killing them. And sure he kills them. But they are dirt cheap unit I don't expect to survive. It will be enough they keep more valuable targets safe from charges. Still leaves shooting to worry but at least it's something. They cannot willy nilly ignore infantry and swarm as that applies only for fall back move.

Even 27 scarabs, which is the max we can have with the rule of 3, will not stop a knight from going whereever he wants to go. A 2k knight list has 3-4 big knights (~400 pts. each), and the rest is filled by armigers (~180 pts each). One or two knights and some armigers will easily kill a 9 scarab unit during shooting. If you put all 27 in front of them you will probably delay them 1 turn, thats it. We cant have 90 scarabs like orks do with gretchin.

Well true that I'm not that familiar with necrons. How wide area 9 scarabs fill? Should block at least one knight from moving around a bit and shooting is after movement so at least some delay.

Also worth keeping in mind with just basic warriors protecting more valuable targets from being charged. Do you want to lose DDA to charge or 10 necron warriors? If you can't kill the knight(and you aren't killing all knights in 1 round ever anyway) next best thing is delay it from doing anything worthwhile. Feeding gallant some necron warriors should(at least to my logic though I'm not familiar with necrons) be preferable to having gallant rampaging across your DDA's and other anti tank units giving you time to deal with shooty knights before they shoot you to death.

9 scarabs can fill 30". DDAs arent effective against knights, because they can get a 3+ invuln sv with a stratagem. Lots of buffed tesla immortals with MWBD and MD are more effective because of volume of fire, unless the knight has a 2+ sv. What is "effective" to stop a knight are nihilakh wraith and their reclaim a lost empire stratagem. When the wraith are within 3" of an objective marker, or didnt move this turn, they get +1 to their saves, giving them a 2+ invuln sv and +1 attack. Wraith are neither INFANTRY nor SWARM. If they surround him he cant fallback. Problem is the wraith need to survive two turns, because they must surround him, the stratagem is played at the end of the turn and lasts for the opponents turn.

They get 3++ for one knight. Potential which you know(who has the 4++ warlord trait). If you shoot at other knights he gets 4++ at best with strategem(at whopping cost of 3CP if it's the big chassis and knights are generally struggling with CP's. They have 11 generally at best if they have IG ally minus bunch for relics and warlord traits). And if he pops strategem you can switch target and hit at 5++ knights instead.

tneva82 wrote:


Good news: Only 24 wounds.

Also it can walk through infantry and swarm ONLY when it's falling back. On normal movement and charge THEY CANNOT! Keep this in mind. Park scarab swarm front of knights and they have to move around them(or charge them). My orks would have fun facing h2h based knights. Just keep da jumping line of grots front of them. Have fun charging this grot squad. Shooty knights alas would be more annoying.

1. Yep, my mistake. Played games correctly, i just typed different number.

2. Well, if thats how things goes, then i got cheated in last game. Cause i screened by 2 scarabs between table edge and impassable terrain, and opponent was willing to walk over them.

If i were the knight player i would wait until the necron player uses any of his stratagems before i use my 3+ invuln sv stratagem. Then that strat cant be used against my other 4+ or 5+ invuln knights.

-Sentinel- wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Good news: Only 24 wounds.

Also it can walk through infantry and swarm ONLY when it's falling back. On normal movement and charge THEY CANNOT! Keep this in mind. Park scarab swarm front of knights and they have to move around them(or charge them). My orks would have fun facing h2h based knights. Just keep da jumping line of grots front of them. Have fun charging this grot squad. Shooty knights alas would be more annoying.

1. Yep, my mistake. Played games correctly, i just typed different number.

2. Well, if thats how things goes, then i got cheated in last game. Cause i screened by 2 scarabs between table edge and impassable terrain, and opponent was willing to walk over them.

"When this model Falls Back, it can move over enemy INFANTRY and SWARM models,"

If he moved over your infantry/swarm without having started within 1" of your units(ie be in combat) then yes he played incorrectly(whether intentional cheat or not I don't judge). Easy to make as it sounds illogical at first that when you fall back you ignore but when not suddenly tiny grot might just as well be mount everest so...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:
If i were the knight player i would wait until the necron player uses any of his stratagems before i use my 3+ invuln sv stratagem. Then that strat cant be used against my other 4+ or 5+ invuln knights.

What strategem would that be and is there anything necrons have shooting wise that doesn't really benefit from that but hurts knight? If yes start those. If he pops then switch target, if not you will shoot at will for a while without boosted shield.

And of course if it's not 100% essential don't start with the 4++ knight so he can't get the 3++. Keep that 4++ knight busy meanwhile and concentrate on easier targets.

Also you don't even need to kill it as degrades hurts knights a lot. Half stage alone drops their power quite a lot.

tneva82 wrote:

Also you don't even need to kill it as degrades hurts knights a lot. Half stage alone drops their power quite a lot.

Problem is that they easily ignored degrade for only 1 CP everytime they faced it.

-Sentinel- wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Also you don't even need to kill it as degrades hurts knights a lot. Half stage alone drops their power quite a lot.

Problem is that they easily ignored degrade for only 1 CP everytime they faced it.

True that's annoying if they are mechanicum house(iirc it was mechanicum only strategem so if it's imperial house like hawkshround that's out). Way to combat that would be then get multiple ones. Also at least they then burn through their small amount of CP's(I struggle to come up with list that has more than ~5 to begin with. Knights are really starved for CP and only way to get decent amount adds soft bodies to kill)

tneva82 wrote:

True that's annoying if they are mechanicum house(iirc it was mechanicum only strategem so if it's imperial house like hawkshround that's out). Way to combat that would be then get multiple ones. Also at least they then burn through their small amount of CP's(I struggle to come up with list that has more than ~5 to begin with. Knights are really starved for CP and only way to get decent amount adds soft bodies to kill)

look at my initial post. List with Bobby G, mechs and 3 knights have about 14 CP to begin with. And returns them on 5+ everytime uses it.

-Sentinel- wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

True that's annoying if they are mechanicum house(iirc it was mechanicum only strategem so if it's imperial house like hawkshround that's out). Way to combat that would be then get multiple ones. Also at least they then burn through their small amount of CP's(I struggle to come up with list that has more than ~5 to begin with. Knights are really starved for CP and only way to get decent amount adds soft bodies to kill)

look at my initial post. List with Bobby G, mechs and 3 knights have about 14 CP to begin with. And returns them on 5+ everytime uses it.

14 minus extra relics and warlord traits. Those eat up easily as knights have plenty of those. And of course assumes you don't take any ad mech relics.

Am I the only one feeling the power creep is really bad with the new knights and just dont want to even see them across from me on the board? I mean, these things just seem designed to sell the models. Glad my local tourneys only allow 1 lord of war. Still... 3 knights and Bobby g? That's stupid as far as a balanced type of game goes. Narrative I can see, matched play it's bad.

How do they start with 14CP?

tneva82 wrote:
What strategem would that be and is there anything necrons have shooting wise that doesn't really benefit from that but hurts knight? If yes start those. If he pops then switch target, if not you will shoot at will for a while without boosted shield.

It makes no sense to damage multiple knights, you must try to take one out. Two units of 10 tesla immortals buffed with MWBD playing the methodical destruction stratagem. Thats 40 shots hitting on 2+, and 4+ will trigger tesla, 3 hits instead of 1. You can easily score 50 hits with that. Wounding a knight on 5s will do 17 wounds. Tesla has no AP though (unless you are mephrit). The knight will lose 6 wounds if his armor save is 3+.
Another stratagem is extermination protocols. Played on a unit of 6 destroyers will let them re-roll all failed hit and all failed wound rolls. Because of methodical destruction they will also hit on 2+. 18 shots re-rolling all failed hit rolls, wounding on 5s, re-rolling all failed wound rolls will put another 6 wounds on a 3+ invuln sv knight. Or 9 on a knight with 4+ invuln sv.
A DDA with 3.5 shots needs some luck to do a successful hit on a knight with a 3+ invuln sv. If it works the knight loses another 3.5 wounds. The knight would lose 15.5 wounds with 4 CP in one turn. Wraith could do more damage in CC, they might kill one knight, or at least bring him down to his last bracket, which is then ignored by the knight player with a 1CP stratagem. And thats the best necrons can do.

 p5freak wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
What strategem would that be and is there anything necrons have shooting wise that doesn't really benefit from that but hurts knight? If yes start those. If he pops then switch target, if not you will shoot at will for a while without boosted shield.

It makes no sense to damage multiple knights, you must try to take one out. Two units of 10 tesla immortals buffed with MWBD playing the methodical destruction stratagem. Thats 40 shots hitting on 2+, and 4+ will trigger tesla, 3 hits instead of 1. You can easily score 50 hits with that. Wounding a knight on 5s will do 17 wounds. Tesla has no AP though (unless you are mephrit). The knight will lose 6 wounds if his armor save is 3+.
Another stratagem is extermination protocols. Played on a unit of 6 destroyers will let them re-roll all failed hit and all failed wound rolls. Because of methodical destruction they will also hit on 2+. 18 shots re-rolling all failed hit rolls, wounding on 5s, re-rolling all failed wound rolls will put another 6 wounds on a 3+ invuln sv knight. Or 9 on a knight with 4+ invuln sv.
A DDA with 3.5 shots needs some luck to do a successful hit on a knight with a 3+ invuln sv. If it works the knight loses another 3.5 wounds. The knight would lose 15.5 wounds with 4 CP in one turn. Wraith could do more damage in CC, they might kill one knight, or at least bring him down to his last bracket, which is then ignored by the knight player with a 1CP stratagem. And thats the best necrons can do.

Never take the DDA, random number of shots of the big cannon will do you more harm than help. Because it made you roll dices for one more stage, which adds the peobability of occurrences of bad things. In my last two games against Tsons, the side arm of the DDA actually puts nore wounds on Magnus (a similar guy to the most tough Imperial Knight (i.e. got buffed to 3++) in the aspect of toughness) than the main gun. Since throughout the game I keep rolling 1s and 2s for the number of shots for both of my DDA.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Never take the DDA, random number of shots of the big cannon will do you more harm than help. Because it made you roll dices for one more stage, which adds the peobability of occurrences of bad things. In my last two games against Tsons, the side arm of the DDA actually puts nore wounds on Magnus (a similar guy to the most tough Imperial Knight (i.e. got buffed to 3++) in the aspect of toughness) than the main gun. Since throughout the game I keep rolling 1s and 2s for the number of shots for both of my DDA.

And whats the alternative to a DDA ?

 p5freak wrote:

It makes no sense to damage multiple knights, you must try to take one out.

Yes but do you want to try taking down somebody with 3inv or 5? If he triggers it right away to first shooting why not shoot elsewhere? Unless first unit did enough damage it makes sense.

If he doesn't(fearing above) you obviously benefit by shooting as much as possible first while he has no strategem.

Fire first less important weapons that he would benefit from boosted inv save. That way you either might get all but that one squad(which might not get anything done thus you didn#t even waste it) or you get some firepower before strategem.

Worst you can do is starting with your best shot commiting you and making his decicion where to boost inv save easy. Make it hard by avoiding commiting as long as possible. There's no downside but as minimum you'll get chance to hit them few times with worse inv save even if that knight ends up target after all

Oh and getting multiple damaged into brackets does help as he can't use strategem to get all shoot normally and damaged knight loses lots of it's power

tneva82 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

It makes no sense to damage multiple knights, you must try to take one out.

Yes but do you want to try taking down somebody with 3inv or 5? If he triggers it right away to first shooting why not shoot elsewhere? Unless first unit did enough damage it makes sense.

If he doesn't(fearing above) you obviously benefit by shooting as much as possible first while he has no strategem.

Fire first less important weapons that he would benefit from boosted inv save. That way you either might get all but that one squad(which might not get anything done thus you didn#t even waste it) or you get some firepower before strategem.

Worst you can do is starting with your best shot commiting you and making his decicion where to boost inv save easy. Make it hard by avoiding commiting as long as possible. There's no downside but as minimum you'll get chance to hit them few times with worse inv save even if that knight ends up target after all

Oh and getting multiple damaged into brackets does help as he can't use strategem to get all shoot normally and damaged knight loses lots of it's power

It is fairly sensible strategy, but in this particular match up, matters very little. Necrons have by nature so little capability to hurt imperial knights in the first place that dividing your fire even a little bit usually means you aren't doing much anything to either knight. If the knight player has a half a brain, he just waits until you either use a vault or similar, or pop your strategems before using his, necron shooting without strategems isn't anything a knight player will be nervous about. And merely damaging a knight is meaningless since they can just pay a bit of cp to act like they have full wounds anyway, and the best you can do in your turn is damage two knights, one which will ignore the damage anyway, everything you have accomplished is to give one knight -1 or maybe even -2 to hit when it shoots, yay. In any competitive game the knight player has AM battalion or two with him with guard warlord since imperial knights very charitably can have their own warlords at the same time, so he will never run out of cp before he has decimated you.

Necrons can't outshoot, outmelee or screen knights effectively, that is just a fact, knights have been built to take the worst eldar and tau can do and be able to tank it, necrons won't win that way.

I feel like if we're looking at knights, some of them come out to 600 points.

x3 DDA is practically mandatory, just blast the heck out of the smaller units first, reduce the amount of incoming fire quickly with each kill. I don't think its impossible. But I have not yet attempted.

Alternatively, for 600, 2x6 Destroyers can probably trade. Ctan would mess them up in melee, but would be destroyed in kind.
Warscythe Lychguard with The Strength boost strat and MWBD would do a number on one since that invuln doesn't work in melee. Realistically, for 600 points, you could get 20 of them, or 10, a support character and a delivery mechanism

How do 3 Heavy Destroyers fare with MWBD? It probably isn't fantastic but I've got a list with Stormlord doing that to three squads of them for fun.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How do 3 Heavy Destroyers fare with MWBD? It probably isn't fantastic but I've got a list with Stormlord doing that to three squads of them for fun.

Lets see
9 Shots
7.5 hits
(Assuming T8)
5 Wounds
No Armor saves, Ap-4
5 wounds get through
17.5 damage on average.

With a 5++ invuln
3.33 wounds failed after 5++ invuln
11.667 damage average

With a 4++ invuln
2.5 wounds failed after 4++ invuln
8.75 damage average

 p5freak wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Never take the DDA, random number of shots of the big cannon will do you more harm than help. Because it made you roll dices for one more stage, which adds the peobability of occurrences of bad things. In my last two games against Tsons, the side arm of the DDA actually puts nore wounds on Magnus (a similar guy to the most tough Imperial Knight (i.e. got buffed to 3++) in the aspect of toughness) than the main gun. Since throughout the game I keep rolling 1s and 2s for the number of shots for both of my DDA.

And whats the alternative to a DDA ?

Exactly. The only thing I can think of is Pylon.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:How do 3 Heavy Destroyers fare with MWBD? It probably isn't fantastic but I've got a list with Stormlord doing that to three squads of them for fun.

They may do some damage, but they dont have the durability of the DDA. They cant be repaired, they cant ignore damage. They cant get -1 to QS rolls.

rvd1ofakind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Never take the DDA, random number of shots of the big cannon will do you more harm than help. Because it made you roll dices for one more stage, which adds the peobability of occurrences of bad things. In my last two games against Tsons, the side arm of the DDA actually puts nore wounds on Magnus (a similar guy to the most tough Imperial Knight (i.e. got buffed to 3++) in the aspect of toughness) than the main gun. Since throughout the game I keep rolling 1s and 2s for the number of shots for both of my DDA.

And whats the alternative to a DDA ?

Exactly. The only thing I can think of is Pylon.

The pylon wont survive two turns against knights.

 p5freak wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:How do 3 Heavy Destroyers fare with MWBD? It probably isn't fantastic but I've got a list with Stormlord doing that to three squads of them for fun.

They may do some damage, but they dont have the durability of the DDA. They cant be repaired, they cant ignore damage. They cant get -1 to QS rolls.

rvd1ofakind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Never take the DDA, random number of shots of the big cannon will do you more harm than help. Because it made you roll dices for one more stage, which adds the peobability of occurrences of bad things. In my last two games against Tsons, the side arm of the DDA actually puts nore wounds on Magnus (a similar guy to the most tough Imperial Knight (i.e. got buffed to 3++) in the aspect of toughness) than the main gun. Since throughout the game I keep rolling 1s and 2s for the number of shots for both of my DDA.

And whats the alternative to a DDA ?

Exactly. The only thing I can think of is Pylon.

The pylon wont survive two turns against knights.

I actually think the units of 3 Heavy Destroyers would work better than DDA in providing heavy firepower. They vomit more shots than DDA for me because I always roll 1s and 2s, get the buff of MWBD, they reroll 1s to wound from Dlord. They can hide behind LOS blocking terrain to avoid IK alpha strike before jumping out to shoot back. They also have 2+ save when in terrain against Avenger Gatling Cannon, and 5++ against that huge plasma when near a cryptekh.

Actually, if knows before hand that I am going up against IK army, 3 units of 3 HD and 3 units of 6 Destroyers (w 1 HD in each squad)(5men if short in points) will be my go to choice. plus the Storm Lord, Lord and Cryptekh, then rest are just fillers.

Yep, after 3 games my thoughts are:

- DDA just don't survive any long enought. 2 games I lost 2 DDA in a first turn. Last game i didn't just because opponent prefered to concentrate on 20 necron warriors, which he should wipe with 3 knights shooting (i had 2 left cause his dice gone bad).
- Destroyers even without stratagem do more damage to knights for their points than DDA, survive longer and have alpha. They are way to go.
- Knights are overpowered, and built to raise GW sells.

Overall i don't see how necrons can win knights player with at least some degree of skill. You can try to save points with silver tide + destroyers list i think...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:
How do they start with 14CP?

Base 3, +5 for mechs - 3 troops, 2 HQ; +3 for superheavy detach of 3 knights; +2 for bobby G being warlord. Thats 13. Maybe i missed 1 somewhere or he had 13.

Disagree on them being overpowered. Necrons might have it hard but other armies have plenty of tools and there's serious hard counters available like hordes.

Problem seems to be that necrons don't have tools. Not enough good weapons available from multiple sources making rotate ion shields lot more effective than against many other armies. They are also expensivish so playing to knight strenght making them able to take out more points and don't have good horde solution. For price of a knight IG can bring like 100 guys that will take forever to clear for example. Ork boyz are pain to clear as well and gretchins? Forget it. This makes it easy to out-scenario them.

I expect knight armies be middle pack in tournaments. In top tables maybe lone knights or armigers in part soup but not as main core. More of a gatekeeper army than one to head for tournament victory.

I’m honestly more worried about a different faction that hard-counters us: Khorne Deamons.

A few days ago, I got absolutely steamrolled in Tabletop Simulator by one. A combination of a Bloodthirster, two Deamon Princes and 3x30 Bloodletters just flooded my army. The Bloodletters come in from deepstrike with a 3D6 +1“ charge.

The two biggest issues is that the Bloodletter is the ideal unit for cutting through our Warriors/Wraiths (S5 AP-3).
The other one is a Bloodthirster that can get a 3++ thanks to a relic and a strategem.

Anyone got any ideas how to counter this?

xDDDDDDDDDDDDD Khorne daemons.
I'm done. Post FAQ they're one of the worst armies in the game.

Bloodthirster is right now the joke of 40k. It's pretty much beyond me how you'd manage to lose to it. Khorne can't deepstrike turn 1. If you get first turn - they can't deepstrike for 2 full turns. Meaning you can keep them in their deployment zone be zoning out their deepstrike.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
xDDDDDDDDDDDDD Khorne daemons.
I'm done. Post FAQ they're one of the worst armies in the game.

Bloodthirster is right now the joke of 40k. It's pretty much beyond me how you'd manage to lose to it. Khorne can't deepstrike turn 1. If you get first turn - they can't deepstrike for 2 full turns. Meaning you can keep them in their deployment zone be zoning out their deepstrike.

Ah yea I forgot to mention, this was played without the beta rules. And he got 1st turn.

Doctoralex wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
xDDDDDDDDDDDDD Khorne daemons.
I'm done. Post FAQ they're one of the worst armies in the game.

Bloodthirster is right now the joke of 40k. It's pretty much beyond me how you'd manage to lose to it. Khorne can't deepstrike turn 1. If you get first turn - they can't deepstrike for 2 full turns. Meaning you can keep them in their deployment zone be zoning out their deepstrike.

Ah yea I forgot to mention, this was played without the beta rules. And he got 1st turn.

Well then you are worried about scenario that is hyper rare outside your game group.

Pre-faq pure khorne daemons would only beat screenless/low model count armies. I can see how that'd pose a threat to Necrons. Still, the Bloodthirster is a complete joke that should cost 240 pts, not 340.
You have to prevent khorne from going combat->combat->combat by spacing out units.

Against that Khorne army just take more Tesla weapons and make good use of MWBD. Also, more Scarabs for screening.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Against that Khorne army just take more Tesla weapons and make good use of MWBD. Also, more Scarabs for screening.

Pretty much this. Wraiths work too as Khorne's biggest str is AP

 iGuy91 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How do 3 Heavy Destroyers fare with MWBD? It probably isn't fantastic but I've got a list with Stormlord doing that to three squads of them for fun.

Lets see
9 Shots
7.5 hits
(Assuming T8)
5 Wounds
(Assuming Base 3+ Armor)
4.16667 Wounds failed after 6+ save
14.58 damage on average.

With a 5++ invuln
3.33 wounds failed after 5++ invuln
11.667 damage average

With a 4++ invuln
2.5 wounds failed after 4++ invuln
8.75 damage average

That’s really interesting didn’t think they were that potent so how do they compare to DDA then as they can’t get the MWBD boost and then you have the bonus of MD for HD and or DDA

That's 9 heavy destroyers, right? 3 full units?

torblind wrote:
That's 9 heavy destroyers, right? 3 full units?

Yeah, 3 units of 3, figured nobody would run just 3 if they were, and its closer to points-equivalent.

Compared to x3 DDA

Same Maths
(3+ Armor, T8)
Average 3.5 shots per
10.5 shots average
7 hits
4.667 Wounds
No Saves allowed
Average 3.5 damage per wound
16.33 Wounds on T8

5++ Invuln, T8
Average 3.5 shots per
10.5 shots average
7 hits
4.667 Wounds
After 5++
3.111 Wounds get through
Average 3.5 damage per wound
10.89 wounds


4++ Invuln T8
Average 3.5 shots per
10.5 shots average
7 hits
4.667 Wounds
After 4++
2.3335 wounds get through
Average 3.5 damage per wound
8.167 Wounds

So to recap
Vs T8, 3+ Armor Only
DDA 17.5
Heavy D 16.33

Vs T8, 5++
DDA 11.667
Heavy D 10.89

Vs T8 4++
DDA 8.75
Heavy D 8.167

The Doomsday Arks Mathematically at least win in every category.

Isn't there a Knight Household that gives them -1 to hit outside of 18"? Might wanna put that in the math too

Doctoralex wrote:
Isn't there a Knight Household that gives them -1 to hit outside of 18"? Might wanna put that in the math too

Yes. For one(warlord) in household that's otherwise fairly poor. I would be relieved to see that one rather than hawkshroud, raven, terryn etc really nasty ones. It also takes away the 4++ warlord trait as can't have 2 warlord traits at the same time on same knight.

Soon I will be facing 3 assassins they have been the Bain of my Warlord and my Cryptek life’s recently didn’t know they were going to be in the list not sure how to approach them my first thoughts are hide all characters until they are dealt with or take ones that heal better deathmarks, auto advance scarabs blow one up, CTan powers? Any quick wins would be much appreciated

Curious79 wrote:
Soon I will be facing 3 assassins they have been the Bain of my Warlord and my Cryptek life’s recently didn’t know they were going to be in the list not sure how to approach them my first thoughts are hide all characters until they are dealt with or take ones that heal better deathmarks, auto advance scarabs blow one up, CTan powers? Any quick wins would be much appreciated

Nestle them into the middle of a 20 man squad of warriors. Take the Immortal Pride Warlord Trait, and the Veil of Darkness
Assassins run into the warriors. Kill a bunch, warriors can't fail morale.
Teleport warriors and HQ to safety. Shoot the assassins out in the open to death.

What type of assassins? Sniper assassins or cc assassins? If sniper i would use snipers back, deathmarks are a bit over priced but i find no one expects them in numbers and have done quite well dropping 30 deathmarks infront of some stuff i want dead. Charecters hate mortal wounds.

Otherwise if its cc ones iGuy91 has the right idea. Especially if you go Nihilakh. Having 20 warriors sitting on an objective, pop the stratagem to give them 3+/4++ saves with a cryptek inside with immortal pride, watch how much firepower is needed to kill all 20. Move a ghost ark up next turn to get 2 rp rolls at 4+, you have an expensive but very hard to move group that can dish out quite a few shots.

"Sniper assassins" - that's not a thing in competitive games. 90 points for 1 shot that gets -1 when moving(and deepstriking) and only does D3 damage? Where do I sign up

Anyway, you hardcounter the best assassin with C'tan powers as they aren't psychic powers and bypass 6s to hit.
The other two... eh. Just surround your characters with dudes so they can't fit

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
xDDDDDDDDDDDDD Khorne daemons.
I'm done. Post FAQ they're one of the worst armies in the game.

Bloodthirster is right now the joke of 40k. It's pretty much beyond me how you'd manage to lose to it. Khorne can't deepstrike turn 1. If you get first turn - they can't deepstrike for 2 full turns. Meaning you can keep them in their deployment zone be zoning out their deepstrike.

Does it make you feel like a better person belittling strangers on the internet? You who have won nothing of significance in your life and gravy train off the success of others? Is it really so hard to add meaningful elements to the discussion without being such a caustic douchebag?

I honestly don't get it. You don't even play competitive 40k, yet feel the need to belittle anyone else who doesn't play to your perceived standard of what 40k is suppose to be. It's completely inane and pointless. For the record, you play however you want to play. If you get your enjoyment copying other people's lists so you can steamroll your locals in meaningless games, you do you. Just try and have enough self awareness to realize your unearned hubris and caustic attitude is adding nothing to the hobby or the enjoyment of others. You are pretty well informed on the current tournament trends so your perspective has value, it can just be shared in a significantly more productive fashion.

 iGuy91 wrote:

The Doomsday Arks Mathematically at least win in every category.

Add to that the higher durability of a DDA, the stratagems you can use on it, and a DDA outperforms heavy destroyers in every way, except for point cost, where its a little more expensive.

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
xDDDDDDDDDDDDD Khorne daemons.
I'm done. Post FAQ they're one of the worst armies in the game.

Bloodthirster is right now the joke of 40k. It's pretty much beyond me how you'd manage to lose to it. Khorne can't deepstrike turn 1. If you get first turn - they can't deepstrike for 2 full turns. Meaning you can keep them in their deployment zone be zoning out their deepstrike.

Does it make you feel like a better person belittling strangers on the internet? You who have won nothing of significance in your life and gravy train off the success of others? Is it really so hard to add meaningful elements to the discussion without being such a caustic douchebag?

I honestly don't get it. You don't even play competitive 40k, yet feel the need to belittle anyone else who doesn't play to your perceived standard of what 40k is suppose to be. It's completely inane and pointless. For the record, you play however you want to play. If you get your enjoyment copying other people's lists so you can steamroll your locals in meaningless games, you do you. Just try and have enough self awareness to realize your unearned hubris and caustic attitude is adding nothing to the hobby or the enjoyment of others. You are pretty well informed on the current tournament trends so your perspective has value, it can just be shared in a significantly more productive fashion.

I'm an owner of 12k pts of deamons, who's pissed that ALL greater daemons(and basically all non-nurgle deamons post FAQ) suck. If I see anyone saying they're good - the person is either trolling, stupid or bad at the game. It triggers me. I have not gotten a greater daemon in combat in the whole of 8th ed(and this is in FRIENDLY games as I'd not take a greater daemon to competitive):
1. It dies turn 1 before I can do anything when I'm moving
2. It fails 9'' charge from deepstrike and dies

Also it was a misunderstanding to begin with. Since he played without the beta rules... for some reason.

 p5freak wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

The Doomsday Arks Mathematically at least win in every category.

Add to that the higher durability of a DDA, the stratagems you can use on it, and a DDA outperforms heavy destroyers in every way, except for point cost, where its a little more expensive.

Fascinating that still includes MWBD and a reroll of 1 to wound. I'd have figured 3 shots rerolling 1's to hit was better mathematically than D6 shots but color me surprised.

I still like doing Stormlord + 3 ×3 Heavy Destroyers but I guess competitively I would have to go with Arks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
xDDDDDDDDDDDDD Khorne daemons.
I'm done. Post FAQ they're one of the worst armies in the game.

Bloodthirster is right now the joke of 40k. It's pretty much beyond me how you'd manage to lose to it. Khorne can't deepstrike turn 1. If you get first turn - they can't deepstrike for 2 full turns. Meaning you can keep them in their deployment zone be zoning out their deepstrike.

Does it make you feel like a better person belittling strangers on the internet? You who have won nothing of significance in your life and gravy train off the success of others? Is it really so hard to add meaningful elements to the discussion without being such a caustic douchebag?

I honestly don't get it. You don't even play competitive 40k, yet feel the need to belittle anyone else who doesn't play to your perceived standard of what 40k is suppose to be. It's completely inane and pointless. For the record, you play however you want to play. If you get your enjoyment copying other people's lists so you can steamroll your locals in meaningless games, you do you. Just try and have enough self awareness to realize your unearned hubris and caustic attitude is adding nothing to the hobby or the enjoyment of others. You are pretty well informed on the current tournament trends so your perspective has value, it can just be shared in a significantly more productive fashion.

I'm an owner of 12k pts of deamons, who's pissed that ALL greater daemons(and basically all non-nurgle deamons post FAQ) suck. If I see anyone saying they're good - the person is either trolling, stupid or bad at the game. It triggers me.

Bloodletter bomb took a hit but it's hardly as bad as you're making it to be. Even with the nerf it is pretty dangerous.

No top list is taking the bomb anymore AFAIK.Anywho, this is offtopic anyway

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
xDDDDDDDDDDDDD Khorne daemons.
I'm done. Post FAQ they're one of the worst armies in the game.

Bloodthirster is right now the joke of 40k. It's pretty much beyond me how you'd manage to lose to it. Khorne can't deepstrike turn 1. If you get first turn - they can't deepstrike for 2 full turns. Meaning you can keep them in their deployment zone be zoning out their deepstrike.

Does it make you feel like a better person belittling strangers on the internet? You who have won nothing of significance in your life and gravy train off the success of others? Is it really so hard to add meaningful elements to the discussion without being such a caustic douchebag?

I honestly don't get it. You don't even play competitive 40k, yet feel the need to belittle anyone else who doesn't play to your perceived standard of what 40k is suppose to be. It's completely inane and pointless. For the record, you play however you want to play. If you get your enjoyment copying other people's lists so you can steamroll your locals in meaningless games, you do you. Just try and have enough self awareness to realize your unearned hubris and caustic attitude is adding nothing to the hobby or the enjoyment of others. You are pretty well informed on the current tournament trends so your perspective has value, it can just be shared in a significantly more productive fashion.

I agree with everything you say, and for anyone else who are slowly getting enough, just thought I'd add that the ignore function on these forums is really great, you can live on as if he's not there. Eventually when fewer people care what he writes perhaps he just goes away.

RULE #1 people - BrookM

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

The Doomsday Arks Mathematically at least win in every category.

Add to that the higher durability of a DDA, the stratagems you can use on it, and a DDA outperforms heavy destroyers in every way, except for point cost, where its a little more expensive.

Fascinating that still includes MWBD and a reroll of 1 to wound. I'd have figured 3 shots rerolling 1's to hit was better mathematically than D6 shots but color me surprised.

torblind wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

The Doomsday Arks Mathematically at least win in every category.

Add to that the higher durability of a DDA, the stratagems you can use on it, and a DDA outperforms heavy destroyers in every way, except for point cost, where its a little more expensive.

Fascinating that still includes MWBD and a reroll of 1 to wound. I'd have figured 3 shots rerolling 1's to hit was better mathematically than D6 shots but color me surprised.

Note the 3 DD Cannon alone comes out on par with 9 HD. MWBD puts HDs ahead of the cannons

Adding G Array shots puts DDark ahead again

Also if you add rerolling 1 to wound it gets complex, with DD Ark best where S10 has an advantage over S9, ie T5, T9 and T10 if there is such a thing

torblind wrote:
Also if you add rerolling 1 to wound it gets complex, with DD Ark best where S10 has an advantage over S9, ie T5, T9 and T10 if there is such a thing

S10 isn't an advantage against any of the Knights except that Las one from FW as far as I know. All of them are T8 otherwise correct?

 iGuy91 wrote:
I feel like if we're looking at knights, some of them come out to 600 points.

x3 DDA is practically mandatory, just blast the heck out of the smaller units first, reduce the amount of incoming fire quickly with each kill. I don't think its impossible. But I have not yet attempted.

Alternatively, for 600, 2x6 Destroyers can probably trade. Ctan would mess them up in melee, but would be destroyed in kind.
Warscythe Lychguard with The Strength boost strat and MWBD would do a number on one since that invuln doesn't work in melee. Realistically, for 600 points, you could get 20 of them, or 10, a support character and a delivery mechanism

Gauss Pylon is still only 550 points. You can keep it off the table if you don't get first turn. It's macro shot hits on 3's, wounds knights on 2's, and does a minimum of 14 damage per unsaved hit (thanks to the macro vs. titanic rules) of which it gets d6 of them.

 D6Damager wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I feel like if we're looking at knights, some of them come out to 600 points.

x3 DDA is practically mandatory, just blast the heck out of the smaller units first, reduce the amount of incoming fire quickly with each kill. I don't think its impossible. But I have not yet attempted.

Alternatively, for 600, 2x6 Destroyers can probably trade. Ctan would mess them up in melee, but would be destroyed in kind.
Warscythe Lychguard with The Strength boost strat and MWBD would do a number on one since that invuln doesn't work in melee. Realistically, for 600 points, you could get 20 of them, or 10, a support character and a delivery mechanism

Gauss Pylon is still only 550 points. You can keep it off the table if you don't get first turn. It's macro shot hits on 3's, wounds knights on 2's, and does a minimum of 14 damage per unsaved hit (thanks to the macro vs. titanic rules) of which it gets d6 of them.

You still need two full turns to down the knight (15.56 damage per turn), and the moment he dons a 4++ save, you're down to half that.

And you only get to keep the pylon on for maximum 2 turns, second turn at reduced BS.

It's questionable if that's a worthwhile investment

torblind wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I feel like if we're looking at knights, some of them come out to 600 points.

x3 DDA is practically mandatory, just blast the heck out of the smaller units first, reduce the amount of incoming fire quickly with each kill. I don't think its impossible. But I have not yet attempted.

Alternatively, for 600, 2x6 Destroyers can probably trade. Ctan would mess them up in melee, but would be destroyed in kind.
Warscythe Lychguard with The Strength boost strat and MWBD would do a number on one since that invuln doesn't work in melee. Realistically, for 600 points, you could get 20 of them, or 10, a support character and a delivery mechanism

Gauss Pylon is still only 550 points. You can keep it off the table if you don't get first turn. It's macro shot hits on 3's, wounds knights on 2's, and does a minimum of 14 damage per unsaved hit (thanks to the macro vs. titanic rules) of which it gets d6 of them.

You still need two full turns to down the knight (15.56 damage per turn), and the moment he dons a 4++ save, you're down to half that.

And you only get to keep the pylon on for maximum 2 turns, second turn at reduced BS.

It's questionable if that's a worthwhile investment

You will one shot a knight a turn if you get two unsaved hits. The damage doubles after your roll the d6+6. So one hit is anywhere from 14-24 points of damage vs. titanic keyword. The macro profile gets d6 shots at 120" range.

Oh right, yes, never mind me.

dice-hammer.com has been updated with a compare-mode (top right button), causing it to show the difference from one group of units to another.

Punching in numbers from HDs and DDAs, produces the following, showing that if you fire all flayer arrays outside of rapid fire range, and manage to bring a Lord to have HDs reroll 1s to wound, they are fairly close in performance against T8, difference probably negligable. MWBDs gives some additional advantage to HDs.

Good post torblind.

I find them pretty interchangeable in terms of damage output personally. I really like the HDs mobility, though, and their ability to grab cover saves and use LOS blocking terrain more effectively. As some one mentioned earlier, the fact that HDs can hide until they shoot is pretty massive.

I think it comes down to how much terrain you are use to seeing. If you play on tables with a lot of LOS blocking terrain I think the HDs are more effective. If you are playing on generally more open tables then the DDAs will be more effective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Klowny wrote:


On the FO topic, yes I agree, they put out prodigious damage, but they are t4 4+ 1w infantry that deepstrike/usually are not supported, and if they are supported by a cryptek, they are slow as hell and not eating anything...

Wraiths on the other hand are ludicrously hard to kill, insanely fast and still put out respectable damage against most units. 3 attacks each on a squad of 6 is still 18 attacks, vs drukhari they wound on 4's with 2d, really eat venoms and ravagers alike.

Getting T1 charges off fairly reliably is still way more beneifical than DS'ing, hoping to make a 9" charge or else youll lose the squad.

I love FO, but on a competitive setting I find them underwhelming due to their significant drawbacks in comparison to the other CC unit we have.

(For reference the only other CC units i realistically count on to do any actual work in a game is a C'tan shart, usually the nightbringer. 8"M with fly, T7 4++ and terrifying within 12" means he gets to where he needs to be, stays there as long as possible and eats things alive).

I pair them with a veiling chronotek who usually either brings along veiling Gauss Immortals or Warriors. They veil/DS together turn 2 against more shooty lists. I have found the combination quite effective.

I just haven't had the experience of them wiping very often if they fail their charge. I run a pretty aggressive list , though, with 3 squads of FOs. 1x20 and 2x5, with the smaller units tending to operate independently of the two bricks and the Chronotek. I find opponents tend to focus on the smaller units and my scarabs first, rather then take the gamble of trying to work through all 20 and potentially failing to do so, or being incapable of doing so because a couple are hidden too well to get angles on.

I also support both bricks with a Res Orb touting CCB, which really makes opponents pay if they try to take either the Warriors or the FOs and fail. Lastly, I run Sszeras in the list, so that 20 brick of Novohk Warriors tends to be pretty versatile one way or another.

Hey all, need some advice, figured I'd turn here. I recently had a new comer in my gaming group challenge me to an interesting game. After a bout of light hearted boasting I was challenged to a game of 1500 points of Necrons vs 2500 in Death Guard, to which I gladly accepted. So I came up with a list that seemed like it would do well, but I'm not actually sure how well it would do against Death Guard. The game was supposed to be a couple days ago but due to circumstances was pushed back a week, so I'm hoping to get some feedback from some of you more veteran Necron players and those who have faced Death Guard. I know Destroyers are hot stuff right now but I have none, my own collection is slightly limited. Mission wise I know it's going to be Eternal War so no Tactical Objectives

List:

Any help would be much appreciated

What people are overlooking is the 72"' range DDAs have. Meaning they outrange most things that are dangerous to them. Due to 24'' range Necrons have the "stand in the center" playstyle so it is really hard to get to the DDA
Finally the dda has quite a lot of other shots so even if people do get there - it's not fun.

That's why I think DDAs and H Destroyers have a niche - range

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Hey all, need some advice, figured I'd turn here. I recently had a new comer in my gaming group challenge me to an interesting game. After a bout of light hearted boasting I was challenged to a game of 1500 points of Necrons vs 2500 in Death Guard, to which I gladly accepted.

Stupid idea. I dont think any army can win with 1000 pts. less. But here is my help. No to the stalker. If you have another DDA use this instead. No to deathmarks, they are weak. Always max units if you can (warriors, wraith, scarabs). Why mephrit on wraiths and scarabs ?? Thats useless. Make them novokh or nephrekh.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Hey all, need some advice, figured I'd turn here. I recently had a new comer in my gaming group challenge me to an interesting game. After a bout of light hearted boasting I was challenged to a game of 1500 points of Necrons vs 2500 in Death Guard, to which I gladly accepted. So I came up with a list that seemed like it would do well, but I'm not actually sure how well it would do against Death Guard. The game was supposed to be a couple days ago but due to circumstances was pushed back a week, so I'm hoping to get some feedback from some of you more veteran Necron players and those who have faced Death Guard. I know Destroyers are hot stuff right now but I have none, my own collection is slightly limited. Mission wise I know it's going to be Eternal War so no Tactical Objectives

List:

Spoiler:

Battalion Detachment: Mephrit
HQ
-Overlord (Warlord- Immortal Pride)
---Staff of Light, Veil of Darkness
-Cryptek
---Staff of Light, Chronometron

Troops
-10x Warriors
-10x Warriors
-10x Immortals (Tesla)

Elites
-5x Deathmarks
-Triarch Stalker
---Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

Heavy Support
-Doomsday Ark

Outrider Detachment: Mephrit
HQ
-Lord
---Staff of Light, Resurrection Orb

Fast Attack
-3x Canoptek Scarabs
-3x Canoptek Wraiths
-3x Tomb Blades
---Shield Vanes, Twin Gauss Blasters, Shadowloom

Any help would be much appreciated

I have to assume there is some kind of special scenario in mind here.

Make the outrider Novohk
Remove the deathmarks, Remove the stalker
Beef up your anti-armor with another DDA, or heavy destroyers.
Use any leftover points to get bigger squad of wraiths/scarabs/warriors.

I would not expect much, being 1000 points down

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Hey all, need some advice, figured I'd turn here. I recently had a new comer in my gaming group challenge me to an interesting game. After a bout of light hearted boasting I was challenged to a game of 1500 points of Necrons vs 2500 in Death Guard, to which I gladly accepted. So I came up with a list that seemed like it would do well, but I'm not actually sure how well it would do against Death Guard. The game was supposed to be a couple days ago but due to circumstances was pushed back a week, so I'm hoping to get some feedback from some of you more veteran Necron players and those who have faced Death Guard. I know Destroyers are hot stuff right now but I have none, my own collection is slightly limited. Mission wise I know it's going to be Eternal War so no Tactical Objectives

List:

Spoiler:

Battalion Detachment: Mephrit
HQ
-Overlord (Warlord- Immortal Pride)
---Staff of Light, Veil of Darkness
-Cryptek
---Staff of Light, Chronometron

Troops
-10x Warriors
-10x Warriors
-10x Immortals (Tesla)

Elites
-5x Deathmarks
-Triarch Stalker
---Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon

Heavy Support
-Doomsday Ark

Outrider Detachment: Mephrit
HQ
-Lord
---Staff of Light, Resurrection Orb

Fast Attack
-3x Canoptek Scarabs
-3x Canoptek Wraiths
-3x Tomb Blades
---Shield Vanes, Twin Gauss Blasters, Shadowloom

Any help would be much appreciated

Honestly, I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but that is a list I wouldn't expect to win very many 1500 point games. You are planning on using it vs 2500? I think you need a more competitive edge to stand any chance. More destroyers, more DDA, more wraiths, more tomb blades. You can't afford to mess around with useless units and minimum size units.

I understand where you all are coming from and it is quite silly, but I wanted to humor him so im not expecting much either. Thank you all for the advice, here's a revised list.


I wish I could add more troops by thats actually all I have troops wise. Got rid of the Deathmarks and stalker for more Tomb Blades and another Ark

Just played a 1.5k game against a vehicle heavy DG list and lost 10-8. Two crawlers, two plague drones with spitters, Typhus with 10 poxwalkers, 2*10 cultists, 2*5 plague marines, a lord, one defiler and one hellbrute. I moved my 6 wraith forward, and veiled a cryptek with 6 destroyers in my opponents deployment zone because i had to, tactical objective, three of my units inside the enemys deployment zone. Wraith charged the marines and killed them. After that they tanked almost all shots from his entire army, i lost 1 wraith. The 20 cultists managed to do 2 damage with 40 shots, more than the crawlers, hellbrute and the defiler together, who only did 1 damage. 3+ invuln sv rocks. I was very annoyed when my 20 immortals scored 61 hits on a plague drone with MWBD and methodical destruction, but only managed to do 6 wounds, i hate disgustingly resilient. My 6 destroyers were unable to kill one crawler in three turns with extermination protocols, i lost some destroyers in turn 2 and 3. He made lots of 5+ invuln svs and 5+ disgustingly resilient rolls. The crawler should have died in turn 2. Wraiths were the best unit by far i had on the table followed by destroyers. Immortals had a hard time shooting at T7 vehicles with disgustingly resilient like drones, nothing else was in range. I have no DDAs yet. Here is my list, its not meant to be competitive, just for casual games at the FLGS :

 p5freak wrote:
Just played a 1.5k game against a vehicle heavy DG list and lost 10-8. Two crawlers, two plague drones with spitters, Typhus with 10 poxwalkers, 2*10 cultists, 2*5 plague marines, a lord, one defiler and one hellbrute. I moved my 6 wraith forward, and veiled a cryptek with 6 destroyers in my opponents deployment zone because i had to, tactical objective, three of my units inside the enemys deployment zone. Wraith charged the marines and killed them. After that they tanked almost all shots from his entire army, i lost 1 wraith. The 20 cultists managed to do 2 damage with 40 shots, more than the crawlers, hellbrute and the defiler together, who only did 1 damage. 3+ invuln sv rocks. I was very annoyed when my 20 immortals scored 61 hits on a plague drone with MWBD and methodical destruction, but only managed to do 6 wounds, i hate disgustingly resilient. My 6 destroyers were unable to kill one crawler in three turns with extermination protocols, i lost some destroyers in turn 2 and 3. He made lots of 5+ invuln svs and 5+ disgustingly resilient rolls. The crawler should have died in turn 2. Wraiths were the best unit by far i had on the table followed by destroyers. Immortals had a hard time shooting at T7 vehicles with disgustingly resilient like drones, nothing else was in range. I have no DDAs yet. Here is my list, its not meant to be competitive, just for casual games at the FLGS :

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [49 PL, 904pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynastic Heirlooms: Dynastic Heirlooms: 1 Extra Artefact (-1CP)

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Sautekh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Overlord [6 PL, 94pts]: Artefact (Sautekh): The Abyssal Staff, Staff of Light
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Sautekh): Hyperlogical Strategist

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Fast Attack +

Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
. 6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [35 PL, 597pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Novokh

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs [6 PL, 91pts]: 7x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs [6 PL, 91pts]: 7x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 330pts]: 6x Canoptek Wraith

++ Total: [84 PL, 1501pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Honestly, that's not a bad list for the task at hand. That being said, sounds like your destroyers whiffed a few turns in a row, which is a shame. They should have been able to do what you said. I find DG play really boils down to their DR dice. If they are hot, they win. If they are cold, they lose. Not much I'd have changed in your list tbh.

Does anyone know how long Destroyers have been out of stock on the UK store.
Or whats going on with them. Getting reboxed?

 iGuy91 wrote:

Honestly, that's not a bad list for the task at hand. That being said, sounds like your destroyers whiffed a few turns in a row, which is a shame. They should have been able to do what you said. I find DG play really boils down to their DR dice. If they are hot, they win. If they are cold, they lose. Not much I'd have changed in your list tbh.

I know, and the destroyers performed well, good number of hits and good number of wounds, its just that he made so many invuln svs and DR rolls. Same with the plague drones. Those things just dont want to die. Did i already mention that i hate DG and their DR ?

 p5freak wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

Honestly, that's not a bad list for the task at hand. That being said, sounds like your destroyers whiffed a few turns in a row, which is a shame. They should have been able to do what you said. I find DG play really boils down to their DR dice. If they are hot, they win. If they are cold, they lose. Not much I'd have changed in your list tbh.

I know, and the destroyers performed well, good number of hits and good number of wounds, its just that he made so many invuln svs and DR rolls. Same with the plague drones. Those things just dont want to die. Did i already mention that i hate DG and their DR ?

Aye, they are a pain.

The only thing I’d change is to take min-squads of Scarabs as back-field obj holders and fill the last Immortal Squad.

 p5freak wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

Honestly, that's not a bad list for the task at hand. That being said, sounds like your destroyers whiffed a few turns in a row, which is a shame. They should have been able to do what you said. I find DG play really boils down to their DR dice. If they are hot, they win. If they are cold, they lose. Not much I'd have changed in your list tbh.

I know, and the destroyers performed well, good number of hits and good number of wounds, its just that he made so many invuln svs and DR rolls. Same with the plague drones. Those things just dont want to die. Did i already mention that i hate DG and their DR ?

The DG player in my meta must make between 50-60% of his DR saves. its absurd.

Doctoralex wrote:

The only thing I’d change is to take min-squads of Scarabs as back-field obj holders and fill the last Immortal Squad.

No, i like my scarabs. They can do some nasty damage with selfdestruct. I need some more models for that.

 p5freak wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:

The only thing I’d change is to take min-squads of Scarabs as back-field obj holders and fill the last Immortal Squad.

No, i like my scarabs. They can do some nasty damage with selfdestruct. I need some more models for that.

Self Destruct is an underrated stratagem that turns a screen into something your opponent actively wants to avoid. I even ran a scarab farm list in my escalation once just for fun, and it actually did pretty well against a small force of Custodes. I'm always surprised at how well you can do when you run something the meta isn't designed to beat.

 dan2026 wrote:
Does anyone know how long Destroyers have been out of stock on the UK store.
Or whats going on with them. Getting reboxed?

Almost a decade.

As to what's going on with them: they just aren't in production.

They tend to make very small production runs of models that aren't bought very often, then when they run out, they add them to list to do another small run. DDAs, Destroyers etc go out of stock on the UK store a fair amount.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Does anyone know how long Destroyers have been out of stock on the UK store.
Or whats going on with them. Getting reboxed?

Almost a decade.

As to what's going on with them: they just aren't in production.

Wow really?
So GW straight don't sell them.

 EnTyme wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:

The only thing I’d change is to take min-squads of Scarabs as back-field obj holders and fill the last Immortal Squad.

No, i like my scarabs. They can do some nasty damage with selfdestruct. I need some more models for that.

Self Destruct is an underrated stratagem that turns a screen into something your opponent actively wants to avoid. I even ran a scarab farm list in my escalation once just for fun, and it actually did pretty well against a small force of Custodes. I'm always surprised at how well you can do when you run something the meta isn't designed to beat.

Ooooooo tell me more I will prob face custodes soon!! And also love scarabs !!!!

 dan2026 wrote:
Wow really?
So GW straight don't sell them.

They are sold, they just aren't kept in constant production. They make some, sell them, then when stock hits 0, they will start up another run.

Jackers wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Wow really?
So GW straight don't sell them.

They are sold, they just aren't kept in constant production. They make some, sell them, then when stock hits 0, they will start up another run.

Ah got it thanks.
So I just need to keep an eye out for when they go back in stock.

Curious79 wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:

The only thing I’d change is to take min-squads of Scarabs as back-field obj holders and fill the last Immortal Squad.

No, i like my scarabs. They can do some nasty damage with selfdestruct. I need some more models for that.

Self Destruct is an underrated stratagem that turns a screen into something your opponent actively wants to avoid. I even ran a scarab farm list in my escalation once just for fun, and it actually did pretty well against a small force of Custodes. I'm always surprised at how well you can do when you run something the meta isn't designed to beat.

Ooooooo tell me more I will prob face custodes soon!! And also love scarabs !!!!

So the list was basically an Overlord and Cloaktek with 3x5 Gauss Immortals, 2x4 Scarabs (only had 8 bases), and two Spyders with a particle beamer plus a few Tomb Blades to fill out the points (we weren't playing objectives). It was only a 1250 or so point game in our escalation league. Got one unit of scarabs into melee as soon as I could, then used the Self Destruct stratagem to nuke a base for d3 MW. Any extra damage the Scarabs did in melee (which wasn't much) was gravy. I kept the Immortals behind the screen and had the Scarabs fly away every turn so the rest of the army could shoot, then charged in the other unit. At the top of the turn, I burned 2 CP to give the Scarabs RP and used the Spyders to bring back one base for free in each Scarab unit. Rinse and repeat. By the end of the fight, I had only lost one base. This was the kind of strategy that probably only works in one fight, and I did get pretty lucky in some cases, but by the end of turn three, I had more or less won the fight.

had the Scarabs fly away every turn so the rest of the army could shoot, then charged in the other unit.

Strage wording here. Did you fly away and charge with the same unit? Unless you mean you charged with the other scarab unit that didn't retreat.

Also how many bikes did the custodes have?

EnTyme wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:

The only thing I’d change is to take min-squads of Scarabs as back-field obj holders and fill the last Immortal Squad.

No, i like my scarabs. They can do some nasty damage with selfdestruct. I need some more models for that.

Self Destruct is an underrated stratagem that turns a screen into something your opponent actively wants to avoid. I even ran a scarab farm list in my escalation once just for fun, and it actually did pretty well against a small force of Custodes. I'm always surprised at how well you can do when you run something the meta isn't designed to beat.

Yes, it is underrated. With two units of scarabs you can do D3 MW every turn. One charges in, explodes, the other one waits. Next turn the scarabs in CC falls back, and the other one charges, explodes, and so it goes on and on. I wouldnt recommend running spyders with them, for the points of one spyder you can get 5 more scarab bases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

had the Scarabs fly away every turn so the rest of the army could shoot, then charged in the other unit.

Strage wording here. Did you fly away and charge with the same unit? Since you cannot do that without stratagem. Unless you mean you charged with the other scarab unit that didn't retreat.

Scarabs cannot charge in the same turn they fall back. What stratagem are you talking about ?

I typed that and thought:
"hey wait how does the stratagem work again, it's only on advance not falling back, right"
*checks book*
"yeah, that's right"
*completelly forgets to fix the post*

I'M SMART

I suggest watching super wargamer on youtube, he has some nice tactics for necrons. Also IDICbeer 40k has videos about necrons.

 p5freak wrote:
I suggest watching super wargamer on youtube, he has some nice tactics for necrons. Also IDICbeer 40k has videos about necrons.

Can you post links? IDICbeer's video is not very competitive IIRC. His version of competitive necron list is 15 novokh wraiths.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnC8_7_RQv5EXiiUOjA2qEg

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

had the Scarabs fly away every turn so the rest of the army could shoot, then charged in the other unit.

Strage wording here. Did you fly away and charge with the same unit? Unless you mean you charged with the other scarab unit that didn't retreat.

Also how many bikes did the custodes have?

I guess I didn't word it well. I alternated the Scarab unit that was in melee every round. Scarabs B would be behind while Scarabs A were in melee. A falls back, army shoots, B charges. Next round, B falls back, army shoots, A charges. Rinse, lather, repeat. The only bike was the warlord. Like I said, this was an escalation league.

What Dynastic Code are people thinking is of the most use for Destroyers?
I'm leaning towards Mephrit as the Talent for Annihilation strategm seems useful.

A lot of the other codes seem mostly useless for them.
I'm interested to see what people think though.

Destroyers can be sautekh, their heavy weapons will turn into assault, and you can still fire them with -1 to hit after advancing. Mephrit is ok, but i wouldnt feel comfortable with my destroyers only 12" from the enemy. With nephrekh you can deepstrike them with a stratagem. Nihilakh is useless, because they already can re-roll 1s. Novokh is pretty useless as well, they arent CC units.

 p5freak wrote:
Destroyers can be sautekh, their heavy weapons will turn into assault, and you can still fire them with -1 to hit after advancing. Mephrit is ok, but i wouldnt feel comfortable with my destroyers only 12" from the enemy. With nephrekh you can deepstrike them with a stratagem. Nihilakh is useless, because they already can re-roll 1s. Novokh is pretty useless as well, they arent CC units.

For what it's worth regarding Novokh, it means if you deploy bad and they get charged they might kill a model at least? Better choice than Nihilakh and Mephrit at minimum, where I don't think the Strategem makes up for a lousy trait for them.

Also the potential to kill models on the charge is never a bad thing even with models that are seemingly terrible in melee. Last edition when we got Relentless using the Decurion I was ecstatic as it allowed us to bully smaller units we ordinarily couldn't (and of course tie things up, but that's out the window as anything can run away). You shoot, you charge models in your deployment zone, and worse case scenario they have fly and run away?

 dan2026 wrote:
What Dynastic Code are people thinking is of the most use for Destroyers?
I'm leaning towards Mephrit as the Talent for Annihilation strategm seems useful.

A lot of the other codes seem mostly useless for them.
I'm interested to see what people think though.

Overall I'd say the dynasty matters very little for destroyers. In any situation besides an auxiliary detachment of course, choose the dynasty based on the other units in the detachment.

Skhmt wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
What Dynastic Code are people thinking is of the most use for Destroyers?
I'm leaning towards Mephrit as the Talent for Annihilation strategm seems useful.

A lot of the other codes seem mostly useless for them.
I'm interested to see what people think though.

Overall I'd say the dynasty matters very little for destroyers. In any situation besides an auxiliary detachment of course, choose the dynasty based on the other units in the detachment.

I think either Nephrekh for Deep Strike, or the Sautekh paired with pair them with Overlord or CCB to make them advance and shoot normally.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

For what it's worth regarding Novokh, it means if you deploy bad and they get charged they might kill a model at least? Better choice than Nihilakh and Mephrit at minimum, where I don't think the Strategem makes up for a lousy trait for them.

 p5freak wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

I think either Nephrekh for Deep Strike, or the Sautekh paired with pair them with Overlord or CCB to make them advance and shoot normally.

Sautekh destroyers get -1 to hit when they advance.

He meant for the CCB or overlord to give them +1

 p5freak wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

For what it's worth regarding Novokh, it means if you deploy bad and they get charged they might kill a model at least? Better choice than Nihilakh and Mephrit at minimum, where I don't think the Strategem makes up for a lousy trait for them.

I think sautekh and nephrekh are the best for destroyers, novokh sits in the middle, and mephrit and nihilakh are the worst. I dont feel comfortable charging a unit out in the open, trying to kill it in melee with my destroyers. I run them with a cloaktek, so he can keep up with them, which means no 5+ invuln sv. In cover they have a 5+ armor sv against AP-3 weapons.

I personally run Destroyers as Nephrekh 99% of the time. Run an Outrider Detachment of a Chronotek, a unit of Destroyers, and 2 units of Scarabs. Nephrekh allows both of them to Deepstrike in and the Nephrekh Code allows the Chronotek to move 11" while advancing so he can stay in range of the Destroyers.

^

I aprove

Welp, the escalation league at my LFGS has kicked of and so far, it hasn't gone great for me :(

Played four matches, lost them all. Some horribly.

Here's my list:


1st match: VS IG (Cadian/Tempestus)



2nd match: VS IG (Cadian)


3rd match: VS Custodes

4th match: VS Khorne Deamons


Thoughts so far (bit ranty, apologies)

-Why on earth does Szeras not hit on a 2+? The man is 2x as expensive as a regular Cryptek. I can't think of a character that expensive that does not hit on 2+ with either shooting or melee.

-So eh, what exactly is the counterplay for us Necrons to Shield-Captains on Bike with 3++ relics/Warlord traits at 500 points?

-One thing I definitely learned is to keep a good spacing between my two units. My Immortals getting tied up after the enemy consolidated when they were done with my Warriors is a HUGE blow to my army.

@DoctorAlex

Sheesh...Those are some really rough matchups. Minus the first one, those lists are custom-made to drop yours.

Szeras is a cryptek, so they gave him a comperable statline...and it sucks.

There is no counterplay to that custodes list at 500 points. It is the absolute cheese supreme. You'd need a big squad of destroyers to have a chance, or wraiths, or exploding scarabs.

I'd run the warriors in a line, with Szeras behind them, and then the immortals behind him to prevent multicharges.

Doctoralex wrote:
Welp, the escalation league at my LFGS has kicked of and so far, it hasn't gone great for me :(

Played four matches, lost them all. Some horribly.

Here's my list:

Spoiler:

500P Mephrit patrol
HQ:
Illuminor Szeras (warlord trait Immortal Pride)

Troops:
15x Warriors
10x Immortals /w Tesla

Necron named characters are not worth the points they cost. I dont use them. Your list is weak. At 500pts i would play this. Wraith can kill shield captains, and destroyers have a chance killing vehicles with EP. Wraiths and destroyers are our best units. If the immortals and the overlord are being pressured by whatever they can just veil away to safety. As dynasty i would play novokh, to help the wraith in melee and to enable the destroyers to do something in melee as well. They are not the best with S5 AP0 D1 A2, but at 500 pts. you have to make best use from what you get for free. I like exploding scarabs, but with only 3CP you cant do much with them. I would use my CP on my destroyers.

The problem is that you took the named character, probably thinking - "He looks cool, he should be good-ish right?"

I guess this because of "Why isn't he hitting on 2s" - meaning you didn't look at his statline before very thoroughly.

Basically you have to realise "GW sucks at balancing. Most things in every codex are trash and that sucks".

In this case, pretty much every named Necron character sucks.

Named Necrons characters need a 10-20% points drop.

 p5freak wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
Welp, the escalation league at my LFGS has kicked of and so far, it hasn't gone great for me :(

Played four matches, lost them all. Some horribly.

Here's my list:

Spoiler:

500P Mephrit patrol
HQ:
Illuminor Szeras (warlord trait Immortal Pride)

Troops:
15x Warriors
10x Immortals /w Tesla

Necron named characters are not worth the points they cost. I dont use them. Your list is weak. At 500pts i would play this. Wraith can kill shield captains, and destroyers have a chance killing vehicles with EP. Wraiths and destroyers are our best units. If the immortals and the overlord are being pressured by whatever they can just veil away to safety. As dynasty i would play novokh, to help the wraith in melee and to enable the destroyers to do something in melee as well. They are not the best with S5 AP0 D1 A2, but at 500 pts. you have to make best use from what you get for free. I like exploding scarabs, but with only 3CP you cant do much with them. I would use my CP on my destroyers.

Spoiler:

++ Patrol Detachment (Necrons) [28 PL, 494pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Novokh

+ HQ +

Overlord [6 PL, 94pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Staff of Light
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Codex 1): Enduring Will

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 85pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Wraiths [9 PL, 165pts]: 3x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers [9 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Destroyer: 3x Gauss Cannon

++ Total: [28 PL, 494pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Agree. this second list is better. Or maybe even drop the wraiths. Take a unit of 6 scarabs for cheap CC screeners and tie up units in combat. Use mortal wound stratagem. Pump the immortals to 10 and keep the destroyer and overlord.

 p5freak wrote:
Named Necrons characters need a 10-20% points drop.

Can agree with that, but I wouldn't say most of them stuck as much as half of them do.

Those 500 pt lists look designed to murder anything not on the stupid train. As in, if your not alpha striking or hitting t1 forget it.

I would play stupid with stupid.

Catacomb command bardge, 2 squads of 6 scarabs, 3 destroyers or wriaths depending on playstyle. Give ccb lightning field and warscythe, and make your opponet go "what?"

Your suggestion is not a valid patrol detachment.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Named Necrons characters need a 10-20% points drop.

Can agree with that, but I wouldn't say most of them stuck as much as half of them do.

Yeah, I agree with that. Sszeras is pretty solid in the right lists, and I've seen people have success with Imo. I have a feeling Orikan+WS LG or FOs has the potential to be a pretty snazzy combo if you can deliver them together correctly. Anraykr's +1 attack is pretty cool it's just a headache to get him anywhere to us it effectively.

Everyone else is pretty underwhelming. Trazyn in particular is pretty bad.

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Named Necrons characters need a 10-20% points drop.

Can agree with that, but I wouldn't say most of them stuck as much as half of them do.

Yeah, I agree with that. Sszeras is pretty solid in the right lists, and I've seen people have success with Imo. I have a feeling Orikan+WS LG or FOs has the potential to be a pretty snazzy combo if you can deliver them together correctly. Anraykr's +1 attack is pretty cool it's just a headache to get him anywhere to us it effectively.

Everyone else is pretty underwhelming. Trazyn in particular is pretty bad.

Isn't trazyn fairly priced for the wargear he brings? (Not saying you necessarily would want that wargear)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I played Anrakyr and Orikan with 10 WS LG on the receiving end of 80 genestealers once with great success


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course they come to you. Hence the success.

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Named Necrons characters need a 10-20% points drop.

Can agree with that, but I wouldn't say most of them stuck as much as half of them do.

Yeah, I agree with that. Sszeras is pretty solid in the right lists, and I've seen people have success with Imo. I have a feeling Orikan+WS LG or FOs has the potential to be a pretty snazzy combo if you can deliver them together correctly. Anraykr's +1 attack is pretty cool it's just a headache to get him anywhere to us it effectively.

Everyone else is pretty underwhelming. Trazyn in particular is pretty bad.

Szeras, effective? Pray tell me how, cause so far he's just been handing out +1 S upgrades and missing his anti-tank shot for me.

By hitting with his shot and handing out +1 BS I wager.

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

Yeah, I agree with that. Sszeras is pretty solid in the right lists, and I've seen people have success with Imo. I have a feeling Orikan+WS LG or FOs has the potential to be a pretty snazzy combo if you can deliver them together correctly. Anraykr's +1 attack is pretty cool it's just a headache to get him anywhere to us it effectively.

By the time orikan gets empowered the game is over. The fact that he is sautekh and slow are two more nails in his coffin. Szeras looks good on paper, until you read the FAQ which says that his buffs are removed when you veil a unit that he buffed. No buffing destroyers and veiling them somewhere.

 p5freak wrote:

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

Yeah, I agree with that. Sszeras is pretty solid in the right lists, and I've seen people have success with Imo. I have a feeling Orikan+WS LG or FOs has the potential to be a pretty snazzy combo if you can deliver them together correctly. Anraykr's +1 attack is pretty cool it's just a headache to get him anywhere to us it effectively.

By the time orikan gets empowered the game is over. The fact that he is sautekh and slow are two more nails in his coffin. Szeras looks good on paper, until you read the FAQ which says that his buffs are removed when you veil a unit that he buffed. No buffing destroyers and veiling them somewhere.

I thought the jury was still not out on that one, since the FAQ only states it for units who are buffed only by stratagems. This was done to tone down Tide of Traitors a bit.
Anyway, Destroyers can't get upgraded by Szeras.

Hi everybody, long time lurker in this thread and was hoping for some list building advice. I joined an escalation league last week and soon we will be going up to 750pts for our armies. Here are my two lists I am thinking about running, if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. I am thinking of fiddling with Nephrekh to try out deep striking my destroyers, but I am not married to it.

#1


#2


My thoughts on these lists: I like having the extra scoring troops and CP in the battalion, but I feel I won't have enough to use them on other than my destroyers. I am also worried two squads of 5 immortals just won't bring enough firepower. The patrol is going to make CP very hard to come by, but I like the idea of having scarabs and the firepower of a doomsday ark in a low points game. What do you, more experienced overlords think I should bring?

Doctoralex wrote:

Anyway, Destroyers can't get upgraded by Szeras.

True. Only warriors and immortals.

 p5freak wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:

Anyway, Destroyers can't get upgraded by Szeras.

True. Only warriors and immortals.

Surely also the stratagem distinction still holds for Veiling them?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Named Necrons characters need a 10-20% points drop.

Can agree with that, but I wouldn't say most of them stuck as much as half of them do.

I think Immotekh the Stormlord is the character worth considering. His MWND twice, Call the Storm and extra CP is worth his points, especially combo with Methodical Destruction.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Methodical Destruction.

What are you shooting at that requires more than 2 units worth of shooting? Methodical Destruction is an overpriced trap.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Methodical Destruction.

What are you shooting at that requires more than 2 units worth of shooting? Methodical Destruction is an overpriced trap.

Magnus, with his -1 to hit and 3++. I put MWBD on Immortals and Destroyer Lord with Void Reaper. Then It took my whole 10 man warriors to cause 1W on him, triggered MD, then piled in my two DDAs with both big cannons and side arms, 10 men Telsa Immortals, a Night Scythe, to drop him down to 4W remains, tbh it was the most lucky moment my DDAs had ever enjoyed they striped off total of 8W from Magnus.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Methodical Destruction.

What are you shooting at that requires more than 2 units worth of shooting? Methodical Destruction is an overpriced trap.

Imperial Knights are creating quite a buzz in the AdMech thread, obviously. Then the Primarchs of course.

 p5freak wrote:

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

Yeah, I agree with that. Sszeras is pretty solid in the right lists, and I've seen people have success with Imo. I have a feeling Orikan+WS LG or FOs has the potential to be a pretty snazzy combo if you can deliver them together correctly. Anraykr's +1 attack is pretty cool it's just a headache to get him anywhere to us it effectively.

Szeras looks good on paper, until you read the FAQ which says that his buffs are removed when you veil a unit that he buffed.

No. FAQ says that buffs removed when you redeploy unit with stratagem. Veil is not a stratagem.

Still, Szeras is not very usefull. Mainly because of price and cause you can't give him artefact.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
I think Immotekh the Stormlord is the character worth considering. His MWND twice, Call the Storm and extra CP is worth his points, especially combo with Methodical Destruction.

Imotekh is the most overpriced of them all. What can he do ? Re-roll 1s for FO. No one plays with them. Can he deepstrike like they do ? No. Is he nephrekh ? No, cant use their stratagem. You need a teleport method for him, which is expensive, makes him even more overpriced. He gives 1 CP. Not bad, but i would rather invest the extra points he costs in a battalion. Lord of the storm, nice, but random. MWBD twice ? Every overlord can do that for 1 CP. He regains D3 wounds, useless if he is slain. A cloaktek can do the same. 160 pts would be ok for him.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Methodical Destruction.

What are you shooting at that requires more than 2 units worth of shooting? Methodical Destruction is an overpriced trap.

Simple fething bloat drone. Scored 61 hits on one with MWBD and MD, but only 6 wounds. They arent just OP, they are OP².

-Sentinel- wrote:
No. FAQ says that buffs removed when you redeploy unit with stratagem. Veil is not a stratagem.

Ok.

-Sentinel- wrote:
Still, Szeras is not very usefull. Mainly because of price and cause you can't give him artefact.

 p5freak wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
I think Immotekh the Stormlord is the character worth considering. His MWND twice, Call the Storm and extra CP is worth his points, especially combo with Methodical Destruction.

Imotekh is the most overpriced of them all. What can he do ? Re-roll 1s for FO. No one plays with them. Can he deepstrike like they do ? No. Is he nephrekh ? No, cant use their stratagem. You need a teleport method for him, which is expensive, makes him even more overpriced. He gives 1 CP. Not bad, but i would rather invest the extra points he costs in a battalion. Lord of the storm, nice, but random. MWBD twice ? Every overlord can do that for 1 CP. He regains D3 wounds, useless if he is slain. A cloaktek can do the same. 160 pts would be ok for him.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:
Methodical Destruction.

What are you shooting at that requires more than 2 units worth of shooting? Methodical Destruction is an overpriced trap.

Simple fething bloat drone. Scored 61 hits on one with MWBD and MD, but only 6 wounds. They arent just OP, they are OP².

-Sentinel- wrote:
No. FAQ says that buffs removed when you redeploy unit with stratagem. Veil is not a stratagem.

Ok.

-Sentinel- wrote:
Still, Szeras is not very usefull. Mainly because of price and cause you can't give him artefact.

He is ok when you roll the right numbers, T+1 or BS+1 is nice.

So if other armies wish for this "amazing HQ?, then why are so few Necrons topping events and... did ANY lists with Immotekh do well... ever? I'm not aware of any. Feel free to tell me the GT/Major name and I'll look it up

Well army is rarely one model only...If your arqument is necrons aren't topping reason is unlikely to be the HQ but whole army.

IG has pretty awesome HQ model in form of company commander. Even Pask is nice. Good luck winning tournament with either if rest of the army is crap though

On a related note to named characters:

Why can other faction's powerful HQ's just laugh at The Nightbringer/T.C'tan in terms of killing power, while also being cheaper AND providing buffs to nearby units?

I'm mostly talking about a Chaos Deamonprince, Tyranid Flyrant and Custodes Shield-captain on bike.

Why are these just straight up better in melee, cheaper and provide buffs?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

3. And with 1 CP Stormlord can give MWBD to three total units.

It is not clearly ruled yet. Cause his ability gives him MWBD second time, and stratagem gives him MWBD second time. So its up to as tournament organiser decides.

I don't see any ambiguity - there's nothing in the rules that allows Imhotek to use MWBD more than twice.

tneva82 wrote:
Well army is rarely one model only...If your arqument is necrons aren't topping reason is unlikely to be the HQ but whole army.

IG has pretty awesome HQ model in form of company commander. Even Pask is nice. Good luck winning tournament with either if rest of the army is crap though

No, I clearly stated that the Necron lists that are winning do not use Immotekh. Prove me wrong.

The main objection is perhaps that for the price of two OLs you get performance near 2 OLs (you're not taking OLs for shooting or CC damage anyway), but you only get to fill one HQ slot.

That may or may not be a problem, depending on your situation. If it is a problem, then Immo is not for you.

Personally everytime ive used Imo hes been great, hes very well rounded, great buffs(stuff FO's), great CC, great shooting and that storm is golden - especially for activating M.D. which i combo alot with units depending on what i need dead.

Would i like him to be cheaper sure!! but he isn't crap by any stretch.

Anraykyr has been solid harder to use for sure positioning and planning his use is key.

Szeras is the same bad positioning nad you have wasted him.

Doctoralex wrote:
On a related note to named characters:

Why can other faction's powerful HQ's just laugh at The Nightbringer/T.C'tan in terms of killing power, while also being cheaper AND providing buffs to nearby units?

I'm mostly talking about a Chaos Deamonprince, Tyranid Flyrant and Custodes Shield-captain on bike.

Why are these just straight up better in melee, cheaper and provide buffs?

They cost about the same amount. But have mostly, more attacks, or otherwise let themselves reroll failed hit rolls of 1. I'm pretty sure the Nightbringer would drop a flyrant in a round going head to head between powers, gaze of death, and then either entropic strike, or decent rolling, since he wounds all non-vehicles on 2's.

That also said, the nightbringer is made to kill fleshy targets, not vehicles, so his strength isn't through the roof, that's one of his bigger drawbacks, he has a niche forced on him that doesn't apply to others.

Deceiver is all about redeployment. T-Ctan are all about powers, and are pretty lackluster otherwise.

torblind wrote:

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Named Necrons characters need a 10-20% points drop.

Can agree with that, but I wouldn't say most of them stuck as much as half of them do.

Yeah, I agree with that. Sszeras is pretty solid in the right lists, and I've seen people have success with Imo. I have a feeling Orikan+WS LG or FOs has the potential to be a pretty snazzy combo if you can deliver them together correctly. Anraykr's +1 attack is pretty cool it's just a headache to get him anywhere to us it effectively.

Everyone else is pretty underwhelming. Trazyn in particular is pretty bad.

Isn't trazyn fairly priced for the wargear he brings? (Not saying you necessarily would want that wargear)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I played Anrakyr and Orikan with 10 WS LG on the receiving end of 80 genestealers once with great success


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course they come to you. Hence the success.

Excellent I really want to run these together can’t ever decide the best delivery mechanism I have thought through some combos and they just seem really expensive to get both HQs into where they would do most damage, They seem expensive and maybe not worth it for the output?

Not Sure which of these lists I like more to fight Ad-Mech.

List 1


List 2


Let me know your thoughts. Both are similar in that the immortals stay tight for MWB, chrono, and RA support.
I expect to probably run into 4 triple heavy phosphor blaster Kastelan robots.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Not Sure which of these lists I like more to fight Ad-Mech.

List 1

Spoiler:

Sautekh Bat +5 CP

Cryptek with Chrono
Overlord with SOL, Immortal Pride,
3x10 Tesla Immortals

DDA
x3 Heavy Destroyers

Nephrek Outrider +1CP

Destroyer Lord with SOL, VoD Relic

x9 Scarabs
x6 Wraiths
x6 Destroyers

2k on the nose, 9cp base

List 2

Spoiler:

Sautekh Bat +5CP
Cryptek with Chrono
Overlord with SOL, Immortal Pride,
3x10 Tesla Immortals

DDA
DDA

Nephrek Outrider +1CP

Cryptek with Cloak, VoD

x6 Wraiths
x6 Destroyers
x6 TB with Tesla Carbines, Shieldvanes

2k on the nose, 9cp

Let me know your thoughts. Both are similar in that the immortals stay tight for MWB, chrono, and RA support.
I expect to probably run into 4 triple heavy phosphor blaster Kastelan robots.

I‘d go with your 2nd list but I would drop the TB. You already have 30TImmortals and not that much of targets for them. If hes playing 4robots I assume hes also having Cawl and is going for the wrath of mars stratagem. Just stay out of LOS of them and as soon as hes making them double shoot RUN your Wraiths at them and tie them up.
Your DDA should focus Dunecrawlers. As already mentioned drop the TB get some scarabs, and maybe another DDA or more Wraiths idk.
Admech is pretty much a one trick pony. If the robots are tied up and dunecrawlers are destroyed you have pretty much won.
You‘ll need scarabs if hes deepstriking dragoons or electropriests. TImmortals will kill the priests and your Destroyers should target dragoons.