ClockworkZion wrote: With Andy Hoare leading the HH team I don't expect it to bloat in the same way the new blood 40k team has been taking 40k, but time Will tell.
Does he lead the current necromunda edition?
I don't know honestly. I don't recall him on the dev video for Necromunda, so maybe not.
lord_blackfang wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote: With Andy Hoare leading the HH team I don't expect it to bloat in the same way the new blood 40k team has been taking 40k, but time Will tell.
Oh you sweet summer child
I said "expect" and "same way as the 40k team". I'm not saying we can't or won't see any bloat, just that if they have any bloat it'll be milder than the 40k version.
I double checked (I get names switched) and he’s the leader of the necromunda team. The current editionish has been around since 2017 and has been clicking out supplements very regularly for the past four and a half years. The volume of material coupled with those updates often raising more questions and needing house rules to work around are a thing. So it’s a decent bet that there will be a goodly supply of material for this if he’s in charge.
Indeed. I've been having that fear myself, so much so that I'm even thinking over dropping future heresy if GW does slot a treadmill under our feets. However, I do have hope. Petitioner's City posted this on B&C:
So I think the big answer is given to us on a monthly basis, namely Andy Hoare. Now he manages six games (AT, AI, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, The Old World and Heresy). Given that Andy Hoare runs heresy, I think it's pretty clear its his team of rules writers who will also be working on Heresy (especially given that they work on one heresy game, already!). That's:
- Barnes (whose career includes as mentioned above a lot of FFG work with Hoare and Bligh, and since joining SG, Necromunda, AI, AT, under Hoare).
- Jonathan Taylor-Yorke (very prominent in SG media about 2017-19 for ATand Necromunda, but also one of the leads on AI and BB 2nd edition last year; his facebook currently shows a lot of Old World love too)
- Tom Clarke (who joined SG in March 2018, after leaving his Phd - check out his Twitter, this great Voxcast interview. You can also read his Grandmaster series on AT.)
Barnes, JTY and Clarke have consistently worked together on the other SG games - AI, AT, Necromunda and Blood Bowl - under Andy Hoare. So it makes sense - after Hoare took over Heresy in the year prior to the pandemic (after the 2019 weekender when he isn't in the Heresy seminars, or at the latest after Anuj Malhotra had his final day in November 2020) - they also moved "over" to work on HH, as they also seem to be doing for TOW.
TBH, I am not sure if Wyllie are still with FW, though, but Anuj's message does suggest that he still was at the end of 2020. However it is clear now that his former co-writer, Hoare, is his boss, if he is still in the studio. And Hoare doesn't seem like the person to leave Neil alone on the project, especially as he has the aforementioned "team" of reliable collaborators who were (and potentially still are) seemingly in the same room (if Hewitt's description of FW from 2017 is correct - "Forge World, everyone is all in one room.")
and
But more seriously, I play - and rewrite for my group - Necromunda, I love the old (sometimes spotty) FFG books, and am very familiar with their (often flawed, yet still brilliant) work.
But for me thats ok. What matters always is the world building and imagination of the games - and that’s something SG have in spades. You see what this has done with Necromunda - where the FFG supplement approach hasn't yielded a strong game, per se, but such a strong world-building that emulates a RPG model. Despite the former, and perhaps because of the latter, people build and play, irrespective of the game's shaky state, and it's become a huge success. AI and AT and BB don't have a patch on how messy Necromunda is, but overall each are strong games - if not "competitive" or "perfect" games, as such. But as we know, neither quite was heresy itself.
I guess heresy has the issue of somehow being both a fluff-driven, primarily campaign-playtested, non-competitve game - and a competitive game where people extensively mathshammer everything about it so as to create the most monster lists possible.
In Necromunda the game breaks I think when the latter occurs - when gangs with too many credits buy things with too many flawed or ott rules and make too easy monsters. However, the errant rules can just be "for he arbitrator" to smooth over, but that becomes harder the larger the game, the more reticent the playing group to such changes or the more competitive the environment.
It will be cool to see where the game goes, and what the studio's inclination is - and if those rumoured three ways to play really come into the game.
ClockworkZion wrote: With Andy Hoare leading the HH team I don't expect it to bloat in the same way the new blood 40k team has been taking 40k, but time Will tell.
Does he lead the current necromunda edition?
I don't know honestly. I don't recall him on the dev video for Necromunda, so maybe not.
lord_blackfang wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote: With Andy Hoare leading the HH team I don't expect it to bloat in the same way the new blood 40k team has been taking 40k, but time Will tell.
Oh you sweet summer child
I said "expect" and "same way as the 40k team". I'm not saying we can't or won't see any bloat, just that if they have any bloat it'll be milder than the 40k version.
I double checked (I get names switched) and he’s the leader of the necromunda team. The current editionish has been around since 2017 and has been clicking out supplements very regularly for the past four and a half years. The volume of material coupled with those updates often raising more questions and needing house rules to work around are a thing. So it’s a decent bet that there will be a goodly supply of material for this if he’s in charge.
"Leader of the Necromunda team" is not exactly a ringing endorsement, in my book, give the state of the game.
Necromunda is kinda book vomit(not necessarily bad, but sure as gak not good) and while irritating, I feel they might have actually learned from the response to it.
But 30k isn't a SG anymore, it's now a full frontal assault like AOS/40K. So thinking of it as still a SG is kinda folly. I'm just not sure how they'll achieve their goals without the book/edition churn "success" of AOS/40K. One can expect the ensuing plastic cavalry charge to soak up a fair amount $€£¥. But sustaining it will actually require them to fill out the non-astartes factions & it's up to them to buckle-up and just do it.
I guess the decision if HH willl be a third main System will be solved when it gets a localisation in the common translation languages of german, french, italian, spanish...
I think the difference between necromunda vs titanicus/30k is that they make each necromunda book a wierd seperate campaign but have stuff you need for core so if you want all toys you need every book. I expect closer to codexes and titanicus campaign books for horus heresy, get your legion book eventually then campaigns might have a squad of renown like the PDF horus heresy stuff for an extra unit here or there, or a right of war.
The EC trait has received some colossal buffs, both over the leaked playtest phase 1 version and last edition's. It now works on disordered charges which brings the legion in line with others, e.g. BA & WE, and prevents the new "hold the line" reaction from instantly countering their main draw.
Biggest of all though is that EC can now strike with unwieldy weapons, e.g. power fists/chain fists, before their peers. Absolutely huge - can't wait to put it into effect.
ClockworkZion wrote: With Andy Hoare leading the HH team I don't expect it to bloat in the same way the new blood 40k team has been taking 40k, but time Will tell.
Does he lead the current necromunda edition?
I don't know honestly. I don't recall him on the dev video for Necromunda, so maybe not.
lord_blackfang wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote: With Andy Hoare leading the HH team I don't expect it to bloat in the same way the new blood 40k team has been taking 40k, but time Will tell.
Oh you sweet summer child
I said "expect" and "same way as the 40k team". I'm not saying we can't or won't see any bloat, just that if they have any bloat it'll be milder than the 40k version.
I double checked (I get names switched) and he’s the leader of the necromunda team. The current editionish has been around since 2017 and has been clicking out supplements very regularly for the past four and a half years. The volume of material coupled with those updates often raising more questions and needing house rules to work around are a thing. So it’s a decent bet that there will be a goodly supply of material for this if he’s in charge.
"Leader of the Necromunda team" is not exactly a ringing endorsement, in my book, give the state of the game.
Agreed. Necromunda has been heavily supported from a book production viewpoint if measured solely by volume. But those books were the reason I eventually dropped out and sold them off. Hopefully HH2 fares better.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Really? Out of the pot leadbelcher is pretty glossy, would be odd if the rattle can version isn't. I have a rattle can of it kicking around somewhere but I haven't fired it in anger yet (that KT Octarius terrain is still waiting for me, lol).
I was as surprised as anyone, but yeah it was very flat. I had to go over the buildings with regular leadbelcher to get it looking right. You can see a bit of it here. The darker bits on the roof is the spray colour.
Interesting, it does kinda look cool to brush the regular leadbelcher over the sprayed leadbelcher to create a contrast in sheen. Though in the video, the model does look pretty glossy after the leadbelcher spray, makes me wonder if there's some can-to-can variability.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: I find it hilarious that they didn't spray the Iron Warriors with Lead Belcher
Same here.
They basecoated the Emperor's Children with a metallic spray and then violet with the brush but the Iron Warrior gets a basecoat in black and metallic with the brush. The "weathering" with the thinned Skrag Brown looks also hilarous and ugly as hell.
What I dislike is how the past up the feets with their technicals base stuff.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: I find it hilarious that they didn't spray the Iron Warriors with Lead Belcher
I dunno how different Iron Warriors metallic is different to the Leadbelcher metallic, but yeah, from the video they look similar enough to just hit it with the rattle can Leadbelcher and then after a Agrax and Nuln washes they'll probably look much the same. If Iron Warriors is brighter than Leadbelcher you could spray the Leadbelcher first then stipple on the Iron Warriors with a large filbert brush, it'll be a lot quicker than applying it with the round pointy brush over a black undercoat like that.
I don't love her brushwork, maybe it's because she's trying to paint for the camera.
Yes IW is a bit brighter than leadbelcher. On the brushwork, think they're a lefty and the camera rig is set up for righties, looked very very awkward.
Fair enough, then yeah, my thought would be to spray leadbelcher then get a big ol' brush and stipple/drybrush on the iron warriors metallic, will be waaaay faster.
On the brushwork, think they're a lefty and the camera rig is set up for righties, looked very very awkward.
I wondered about that, but the other bloke that did the Emperor's Children was also a lefty, so I don't think that's it.
Maybe she's not used to painting on camera and couldn't find a comfortable position. But it seemed like she overloaded her brush (maybe not thin enough too?) and was taking a lot of stabs at an area in a way that wasn't ending up with a very smooth coat. The way the model was jerking around also made it seem like she wasn't braced properly. But when the camera cut back to the finished product it looked okay-ish, so probably just a working-around-the-camera thing.
It is against site rules to describe how I feel about Wrack and Ruin.
I do hope they kept the ignoring Ld tests against shooting, makes my games run quicker.
I'm loving that the writers of these articles are having fun with it as well and it's nice to see things like "man-of-the-people Perturabo" pop up in WarCom articles.
2 takeaways from that article.
- They're not mentioning any turret options, which seems like a gross oversight or, more likely, a missed opportunity.
- They think the Kratos is "sleek."
Azreal13 wrote: 2 takeaways from that article.
- They're not mentioning any turret options, which seems like a gross oversight or, more likely, a missed opportunity.
- They think the Kratos is "sleek."
My own takeaway is that, logically, the Sicaran should be available for regular 40k armies ^^, taking into account that it was "Originally designed by Roboute Guilliman and Ferrus Manus" and Guilliman is born again and all.
Azreal13 wrote: 2 takeaways from that article.
- They're not mentioning any turret options, which seems like a gross oversight or, more likely, a missed opportunity.
- They think the Kratos is "sleek."
My own takeaway is that, logically, the Sicaran should be available for regular 40k armies ^^, taking into account that it was "Originally designed by Roboute Guilliman and Ferrus Manus" and Guilliman is born again and all.
Um, they already are, and have been since 2013 (Loyalists) and 2014 (CSM), respectively.
Quite chuffed with the plastic Sicaran confirmation. Don't even really play Astartes of any sort, but I do like the idea of having one of those with yes, the added bonus on having a kit that isn't seven shades of gak warped resin. If the 40k variant has access to volkite sponsons, even tastier.
Azreal13 wrote: 2 takeaways from that article.
- They're not mentioning any turret options, which seems like a gross oversight or, more likely, a missed opportunity.
- They think the Kratos is "sleek."
My own takeaway is that, logically, the Sicaran should be available for regular 40k armies ^^, taking into account that it was "Originally designed by Roboute Guilliman and Ferrus Manus" and Guilliman is born again and all.
Um, they already are, and have been since 2013 (Loyalists) and 2014 (CSM), respectively.
Well, it just shows how much I have been paying attention xD. Must admit I don't usually look what's permitted from FW.
But I kinda meant that it probably should be in the codex, what with Big G being in charge and all.
Wouldn't wonder when 40k Space Marines can take Sicarans and Kratos with the next Campaign Book and the Deimos Rhino and derivates get re-released with Chaos sprues for the next Codex Chaos Space Marines.
Gert wrote: It is against site rules to describe how I feel about Wrack and Ruin.
I do hope they kept the ignoring Ld tests against shooting, makes my games run quicker.
I'm loving that the writers of these articles are having fun with it as well and it's nice to see things like "man-of-the-people Perturabo" pop up in WarCom articles.
I don't even play IW and I'm mad at it. This rule is so representative of 40k design. Everything that was wrong in chaos warbands or chapter traits but was avoided in HH 1.0... let's hope the others legions avoid this fate
Gert wrote: It is against site rules to describe how I feel about Wrack and Ruin.
I do hope they kept the ignoring Ld tests against shooting, makes my games run quicker.
I'm loving that the writers of these articles are having fun with it as well and it's nice to see things like "man-of-the-people Perturabo" pop up in WarCom articles.
I don't even play IW and I'm mad at it. This rule is so representative of 40k design. Everything that was wrong in chaos warbands or chapter traits but was avoided in HH 1.0... let's hope the others legions avoid this fate
What's wrong with it? +1 Str vs Vehicals, Dreads and so on is pretty nice.
Gert wrote: It is against site rules to describe how I feel about Wrack and Ruin.
I do hope they kept the ignoring Ld tests against shooting, makes my games run quicker.
I'm loving that the writers of these articles are having fun with it as well and it's nice to see things like "man-of-the-people Perturabo" pop up in WarCom articles.
I don't even play IW and I'm mad at it. This rule is so representative of 40k design. Everything that was wrong in chaos warbands or chapter traits but was avoided in HH 1.0... let's hope the others legions avoid this fate
What's wrong with it? +1 Str vs Vehicals, Dreads and so on is pretty nice.
I just doesn't really represent the Iron Warriors all that much. Or at all, really. IWs are specialized in siege breaking and taking fortifications, mainly via using overwhelming firepower and an utter lack of regard for their own lives. They pay the piper, and get the job done by whatever means.
Hitting slightly harder to vehicles, dreads, robots and buildings is... a thing.
I don't even play IW and I'm mad at it. This rule is so representative of 40k design. Everything that was wrong in chaos warbands or chapter traits but was avoided in HH 1.0... let's hope the others legions avoid this fate
Sorry I should have been more clear. Even if the Ld stuff isn't kept, this is a brilliant Legion rule for IW. I love it.
Hitting slightly harder to vehicles, dreads, robots and buildings is... a thing.
A thing that represents their ability to analyze and exploit a target's weak points. They don't take fortifications through brute force, but in a methodical way that tears down an enemy piece by piece through careful planning before applying that force.
Hitting slightly harder to vehicles, dreads, robots and buildings is... a thing.
A thing that represents their ability to analyze and exploit a target's weak points. They don't take fortifications through brute force, but in a methodical way that tears down an enemy piece by piece through careful planning before applying that force.
Or whatever other thing you'd like to, yes. Like pure dumb luck, overpowered rounds, the guide of the dark gods... at least it works on buildings, too, for the fluff.
But they are Iron Warriors. They totally DO take fortifications through brute force. They are Iron Warriors. They go where the fight is toughest, and ugliest, and do whatever they need (be it to the enemy, to their allies or to themselves) to get the work done.
So If I am not a crazy man, can we assume that they're going to do five legion articles a week for three weeks, ending with legions 17 and 18 on May 30 and 31? And that would leave us a minimum of two more Horus Heresy Thursday reveals (Which could be Plastic Levithans, Predators, Landraiders or some other units?) before a two week preorder announcement for the box set possibly on June 5 for delivery on June 25th?
Hitting slightly harder to vehicles, dreads, robots and buildings is... a thing.
A thing that represents their ability to analyze and exploit a target's weak points. They don't take fortifications through brute force, but in a methodical way that tears down an enemy piece by piece through careful planning before applying that force.
Or whatever other thing you'd like to, yes. Like pure dumb luck, overpowered rounds, the guide of the dark gods... at least it works on buildings, too, for the fluff.
But they are Iron Warriors. They totally DO take fortifications through brute force. They are Iron Warriors. They go where the fight is toughest, and ugliest, and do whatever they need (be it to the enemy, to their allies or to themselves) to get the work done.
Togusa wrote: What would you have preferred the rule to be?
Probably something to do with them shrugging off casualties, or a way to mitigate those casualties, plus probably something to assault to and from cover or fortified positions.
Togusa wrote: What would you have preferred the rule to be?
Probably something to do with them shrugging off casualties, or a way to mitigate those casualties, plus probably something to assault to and from cover or fortified positions.
Togusa wrote: What would you have preferred the rule to be?
Probably something to do with them shrugging off casualties, or a way to mitigate those casualties, plus probably something to assault to and from cover or fortified positions.
Isn't durability more of dg thing?
DG would be not dying. IWs would be ignoring casualties.
Is it bad that I mostly only care about the vehicle releases? RTB01 style 20-man boxes of marines is fun but I just want to convert a bunch of former Forge World exclusives without suffering asbestosis.
+ Please GW, if you're reading this, change the tone of this marketing copy going forward.
I understand the desire to appeal to a younger audience, but this kind of language was popular when I was a kid in the late 80s and early 90s, it sounds bizarrely anachronistic now. There's also just a "sick" amount of repetition. If you insist on this style, may I suggest broadening your vocabulary to include Gnarly, Tubular, Outrageous, Harsh, Spaz or Bogus?
"each biker competing to catch the sweetest air."
"we really must stress this – he’s a sick biker."
"Khan tries to balance the dangers of psychic Legionaries with the appeal of sick lightning powers."
+ I appreciate the desire to make "rad" happen, but there can be too much of a good thing:
"rad wheel flicks and barspins through even the roughest terrain"
"As we said, he’s rad."
"Discover Your Legion quiz to find out if you’re a rad enough person to join the Khan’s Great Horde."
+ A more vernacular approach than the typical super-serious presentation of the legions that have accompanied past editions is fine, but who are you targeting? Young teens? Old parents?
"found himself faced with a barrage of fake news."
"Like a tired dad whose child has heard an ice cream van"
+ This copy just feels like PG MajorKill, it's what an edgelord might have written in an AOL forum back in 1996.
"lured by the secret handshakes and team-building exercises of the Warrior Lodges, the Khan was unmoved – duelling Mortarion, his smelliest brother."
"Warhawk pits Jaghatai against his bigger, tougher, and much uglier brother Mortarion at the very gates of the Throneworld."
+ If you want to target a new generation, invest in TikTok or Snap. A huge portion of your customer base are over 35 and this tone make an expensive product feel juvenile. I'm not sure this copy is any more appealing to 13-year-olds. As I might have said at that age "Gag me with a spoon."
I had to check out the article after the posts above. Wow.
the Legion’s no-scope 720 tactics came to define their attitude to combat
I'm glad to see that the quasi-historical gaming tone (admittedly decreased as of late) of the past decade's worth of HH is alive and well and not replaced with Halo 2 multiplayer levels of edgelord dudebro douchebagness. I can't wait for the follow up Emperor's Children tiktok dance video.
Platuan4th wrote: If this sort of thing makes you cringe, stay away from 90's era GW Codexes and Army Books.
I started with them and they were fine.. in the 1990's. I don't want to go back to it though. GW might want to relabel this as Horus Heresy eXtreme! if we're going full 90's marketing though to differentiate it from the former if this isn't an off season April Fool's joke.
flaherty wrote: I understand the desire to appeal to a younger audience, but this kind of language was popular when I was a kid in the late 80s and early 90s
Odds are it's aimed at appealing to young people today and not old ones like yourself. Whether it veers into "fellow kids" territory, I can't say, because I am also very far from being a teenager.
Maybe we all just need to accept that we're grown adults buying a product primarily enjoyed and marketed to children.
Leavening the self-serious tone of the setting with humor is great. But you should actually make jokes, not just say "rad" and "sick" over and over.
I understand the pressure GW is facing – they've increasingly been positioning 40K as a satire of fascism with no "good guys" but the books have obvious heroes, baddies, and a moral POV. This kind of writing seems to be an attempt to provide cover, "See it's all just a lark!" and is discordant with the super-serious launch videos they've been using to introduce new editions. They've got a difficult needle to thread, but as kids today say "This ain't it, chief."
As throwaway marketing copy, it's fine, but I really hope this isn't the direction the codices and books go.
tneva82 wrote: Guess the try-hard tsport "fans" have to start policy gw marketing now
Well, then they would just say "This game's balance is absolutely bloody awful, don't play it, and if you do, here's the most OP thing this month because we can't be bothered to balance the game"
Some would probably see it as a welcome change tbh.
zedmeister wrote:Looks like they've hired a few 1d4chan contributors...
If that is the case, then someone summon the Inquisition - there are some heretics that need a-burnin'...
Platuan4th wrote:If this sort of thing makes you cringe, stay away from 90's era GW Codexes and Army Books.
And Lizardmen names in general, I guess.
While I'll give you the bad-joke Lizardman character names, at no point do I recall anyone referring to "sick lightning powers", "doing rad wheel flicks", or "no-scope 720 tactics" in that material. It may have been OTT in what it described, but it did so in a manner that wasn't... profoundly insulting the material or the audience.
zedmeister wrote:Looks like they've hired a few 1d4chan contributors...
If that is the case, then someone summon the Inquisition - there are some heretics that need a-burnin'...
Platuan4th wrote:If this sort of thing makes you cringe, stay away from 90's era GW Codexes and Army Books.
And Lizardmen names in general, I guess.
While I'll give you the bad-joke Lizardman character names, at no point do I recall anyone referring to "sick lightning powers", "doing rad wheel flicks", or "no-scope 720 tactics" in that material. It may have been OTT in what it described, but it did so in a manner that wasn't... profoundly insulting the material or the audience.
I remember one character in WFRP that was literally "culprit" in german, or somesuch. Among oodles of joke names, of course. But yeah, none of the above. And I don't expect to see it inside of the books either, but as I said above, it's what they do on the webpage. Bit ridiculous? Well, yeah, not their best work.
Hear hear! I think we can all agree that our game of expressing ourselves through pretending little plastic toys are fighting each other needs to be far more serious and adult.
I like it. It's very Gen-Z tongue-in-cheek ironic meminess. I don't think for a second that anyone's actually taking "rad" seriously - what's more likely is that's being deliberately corny and exaggerated to show that every one of these Primarch/Legion reviews is biased to sound great.
The HH crowd take them selves far too seriously. I thought it was amusing BECAUSE it was being overly hip and rad in an article about something that is usually stuffy and a bit pompous.
They are going to have to expand the market a bit to as all this investment worthwhile. I don’t think is seriously aimed at kids who care about 720 no-scoping things. Just adults who find HH gaming up its self and don’t mind a giggle at its expense.
Andykp wrote: The HH crowd take them selves far too seriously. I thought it was amusing BECAUSE it was being overly hip and rad in an article about something that is usually stuffy and a bit pompous.
They are going to have to expand the market a bit to as all this investment worthwhile. I don’t think is seriously aimed at kids who care about 720 no-scoping things. Just adults who find HH gaming up its self and don’t mind a giggle at its expense.
Most HH players have a historical gaming mindset; its just fictional history. I think more people would be open to the humor of it if more was known. There is a significant concern that HH is losing the detail, focus, and reverence of the lore that won people over to FW and got them to pay stupid sums of money for mostly resin armies. Right now the only certainty is GW's desire for people to "pay stupid sums of money" and their messaging still needs to reaffirm the rest. Anything that doesn't is going to be met with similar mixed feelings.
They're really bombing out on these tutorials. At least they primed this one a reasonable colour, but damn, that white is so flat, it has no contrast to it.
I was looking forward to see how they did some of the other Legions but given how they've turned out so far I'm losing interest.
Also, yeah, the shoulder pad seam line is very visible, they just rarely provide shots over the left shoulder to see it properly.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I like it. It's very Gen-Z tongue-in-cheek ironic meminess. I don't think for a second that anyone's actually taking "rad" seriously - what's more likely is that's being deliberately corny and exaggerated to show that every one of these Primarch/Legion reviews is biased to sound great.
I, for one, think that's hilarious.
Agreed. Too many people are taking things too seriously and yelling at clouds again it seems.
Interesting division in views on the white scars article. The folks from the USA think it's really childish, the Brits seem to think it's funny. Obviously the sample size is far to small to make any sensible generalisations, but your all going to now I've pointed it out.
I'm Canadian and don't really give a crap. I stopped reading things GW wrote some point a decade ago. Do like the pictures though, should make a decent sized tank that doesn't look like the generally terrible primaris stuff. (That said, I am now accepting the random missile / grenade launchers stuck to everything primaris as a form of kinetic antimissle defence)
MaxT wrote: Horus Heresy is Very Serious BusinessTM for some people
One could compare them to historicals grognards who’ll point out that tartan on your models actually wasn’t used until the early 1700s. Except that they’re taking actual history too seriously instead of taking fake future ‘history’ too seriously.
MaxT wrote: Horus Heresy is Very Serious BusinessTM for some people
One could compare them to historicals grognards who’ll point out that tartan on your models actually wasn’t used until the early 1700s. Except that they’re taking actual history too seriously instead of taking fake future ‘history’ too seriously.
Those small little details are sort of the fun part, plus there’s always the thing, why try and make Horus heresy the loosey goosey mindset 40k is, and not just play 40k. Nothin stopping you from running deimos rhinos and mk3 in your 40k space marines.
Because HH still fits that mindset. You won't find the Flame Falcons Chapter or Hello Kitty Marines but there are loads of variant Legion colour schemes in the Black Books, Visions and novels.
The idea that a new influx is going to demand things like Primaris or be allowed to port their M37 founding Chapter army over to HH is such a non issue yet it keeps getting treated like a really big deal.
The fans treat is seriously because GW treats it seriously.
They've commissioned 50+ books to fill out the lore of the Horus Heresy and bill it as one of the longest and most epic narratives in sci-fi. They hire classically trained voice actors to read the audiobooks with sonorous flair. The video they produced to announce the new edition features monumental figures fighting a pitched battle in which the narrator claims the fate of humanity hangs in the balance, all with a backdrop of choral music to set the tone.
Then they hired the writing team that added Poochie to Itchy & Scratchy to write these legion overviews. It's just discordant.
Adeptus Ridiculous, If The Emperor Had a Text-To-Speech Device, MajorKill, r/grimdank, have shown how to celebrate/take the piss out of 40K in a humorous way. I'm all for them going that way with their copywriting. These legion overviews just remind me of a critique of "The Big Bang Theory" that the writers don't make jokes as much as shoehorn in references to pop culture as a substitute for a proper setup and payoff.
You won't find that at all in any capacity that isn't "Hey look I made a joke army lol".
Do you want to know what's really funny? New hobbyists have been asking for a while now about Legion schemes and how accurate they need to be with them on various platforms. And do you know what the majority of responses were? They were positive and helpful, pointing out:
A - They are your models, do what you want.
B - Legion paint schemes can vary from company to company because paint isn't the same colour at every single supply depot.
C - There are a buttload of alternate Legion schemes to choose from.
D - Pointed out that Blackshields (currently) exist and they don't have all their own schemes as well.
Plant wrote: Interesting division in views on the white scars article. The folks from the USA think it's really childish, the Brits seem to think it's funny. Obviously the sample size is far to small to make any sensible generalisations, but your all going to now I've pointed it out.
Rad!
As a Yank I thought it was a good chuckle, but I don't pretend that HH is something that needs to be treated like real history of real events like some seem to.
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flaherty wrote: The fans treat is seriously because GW treats it seriously.
They've commissioned 50+ books to fill out the lore of the Horus Heresy and bill it as one of the longest and most epic narratives in sci-fi. They hire classically trained voice actors to read the audiobooks with sonorous flair. The video they produced to announce the new edition features monumental figures fighting a pitched battle in which the narrator claims the fate of humanity hangs in the balance, all with a backdrop of choral music to set the tone.
Then they hired the writing team that added Poochie to Itchy & Scratchy to write these legion overviews. It's just discordant.
Adeptus Ridiculous, If The Emperor Had a Text-To-Speech Device, MajorKill, r/grimdank, have shown how to celebrate/take the piss out of 40K in a humorous way. I'm all for them going that way with their copywriting. These legion overviews just remind me of a critique of "The Big Bang Theory" that the writers don't make jokes as much as shoehorn in references to pop culture as a substitute for a proper setup and payoff.
40k has more books than HH does but we still have a laugh with it. Plus people make 30k related memes as well. Maybe the only people acting like it's "serious" are the ones bent out of shape about a fun article.
Obviously the White Scars article is just about the least important thing in the world, but it is terribly written. If the tone is genuine it is horrifying; if in jest, unsuccessful. Perhaps it is meant as broad satire, but by hitting its target directly it missed the mark?
JSG wrote: If you unironically enjoy your own hobby there's clearly something wrong with you.
PSA that sarcasm doesn't carry well via text.
...on the off chance that you were sincere, I don't think there's anything wrong with someone who enjoys a fictional setting (and not just as a punching bag for endless self-referential and self-deprecating humor). That seems like a peculiarly judgemental thing to say, frankly.
Saber wrote: Obviously the White Scars article is just about the least important thing in the world, but it is terribly written. If the tone is genuine it is horrifying; if in jest, unsuccessful. Perhaps it is meant as broad satire, but by hitting its target directly it missed the mark?
It is as the Scars themselves. Without obvious direction and impossible to discern the true target. An overwhelming thematic victory, I would say.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Quick question about the starter- Are all the tactical marines just bolters or is there an option for bolt pistol and chain sword?
It's looking like just bolters. Bolt pistol and chainsword will probably be an upgrade pack in the future.
I'd expect assault marines to get a full kit. GW loves its jumping stances and traditionally assault marines had a harness across the chest for the jump pack.
The poses for the units in the main box just don't work as assaults.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Quick question about the starter- Are all the tactical marines just bolters or is there an option for bolt pistol and chain sword?
It's looking like just bolters. Bolt pistol and chainsword will probably be an upgrade pack in the future.
I'd expect assault marines to get a full kit. GW loves its jumping stances and traditionally assault marines had a harness across the chest for the jump pack.
The poses for the units in the main box just don't work as assaults.
This is my hope as well.
Ideally, the assault kit has not only the chainsword and bolt pistol, but also the extra bolt pistol and rad grenade launcher to make destroyers. Those might be in a separate special weapon pack though.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The Sicaran is one of the few kits where I like it less after seeing it from all angles and next to other models.
Spoiler:
Even if the plastic sicaran lacks alternate turret options, it is super trivial for FW to adjust the turret ring for the sicaran variants and sell them separately. Except for the venator, that will be a more involved conversion.
I also can imagine the sponson weapons being their own sprue like was suggested. Single flamer, hbolter, lascannon, and volkite plus a mount. Drop 2 of that sprue into the sicaran, kratos, and eventually deimos predator kits.
Depending how they do the kit the Sicaran could be a new chassis for a whole bunch of things kind of like the Rhino chassis in 40k. Put a different sprue in the box for different turrets, give it a different pattern name and you have a new kit.
ClockworkZion wrote: Depending how they do the kit the Sicaran could be a new chassis for a whole bunch of things kind of like the Rhino chassis in 40k. Put a different sprue in the box for different turrets, give it a different pattern name and you have a new kit.
There is the arquitor as well, so not out of the question.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Quick question about the starter- Are all the tactical marines just bolters or is there an option for bolt pistol and chain sword?
It's looking like just bolters. Bolt pistol and chainsword will probably be an upgrade pack in the future.
I'd expect assault marines to get a full kit. GW loves its jumping stances and traditionally assault marines had a harness across the chest for the jump pack.
The poses for the units in the main box just don't work as assaults.
This is my hope as well.
Ideally, the assault kit has not only the chainsword and bolt pistol, but also the extra bolt pistol and rad grenade launcher to make destroyers. Those might be in a separate special weapon pack though.
Anything that doesn't make these release, will no doubt be released later down the road with a wave 2,3,4 etc. If the game does well (and I think it will) then I imagine a lot more stuff will migrate to plastic in the coming months to years.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Quick question about the starter- Are all the tactical marines just bolters or is there an option for bolt pistol and chain sword?
It's looking like just bolters. Bolt pistol and chainsword will probably be an upgrade pack in the future.
I'd expect assault marines to get a full kit. GW loves its jumping stances and traditionally assault marines had a harness across the chest for the jump pack.
The poses for the units in the main box just don't work as assaults.
my biggest fear is if they put out a HH assault marine kit it'll have those fething FLIGHT STANDS!
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Quick question about the starter- Are all the tactical marines just bolters or is there an option for bolt pistol and chain sword?
It's looking like just bolters. Bolt pistol and chainsword will probably be an upgrade pack in the future.
I'd expect assault marines to get a full kit. GW loves its jumping stances and traditionally assault marines had a harness across the chest for the jump pack.
The poses for the units in the main box just don't work as assaults.
my biggest fear is if they put out a HH assault marine kit it'll have those fething FLIGHT STANDS!
I didn't truly understand the meaning of fear until I read this post
I’d like three options for assault marines, give them the parts to be able to be stood on the ground, leaping from a “tactical rock” (give them some variety, dead marines/solar etc) and the flying stands. Give people the option to make them how they want to.
No new legion update today, so we'll presumably get one each working day and be done on June 2nd. A two-week pre-order starting from June 4th would seem to make sense. Exciting times!
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: So, these are alternate builds for the Plastic Praetors, aye? They were both in the White Scars article.
sort of, the new kits have the standard arms that are slot on and off like all marines but the shoulder pads have part of the cape molded to them so if you want to leave the cape off you need different shoulder pads, otherwise the rest of the kit is compatible with all the other heresy stuff in the same manner a plastic mkIII or IV is.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: So, these are alternate builds for the Plastic Praetors, aye? They were both in the White Scars article.
sort of, the new kits have the standard arms that are slot on and off like all marines but the shoulder pads have part of the cape molded to them so if you want to leave the cape off you need different shoulder pads, otherwise the rest of the kit is compatible with all the other heresy stuff in the same manner a plastic mkIII or IV is.
Possible that the generic Praetor with the Sword has seperate Weapons with hands on it you could switsch with parts from other sets or a close weapon set.
Fafnir Rann is also very generic and you can switch both axes with other weapons.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Does anyone have an MSRP breakdown the value of the starter box? GW said that it would be below $300 USD.
I can't find any of the models on the website.
Nearly all the models are new, but rough estimates:
40 mk vi marines @ $60 per 10, or maybe $90 or 100 per box of 20
10 cataphractii terminators @ $60 per 5
2 praetors @ $35 each
Contempt or dread @ $60 for the old plastic one
Spartan @ $130 to $140 probably
You won’t have long to wait to get your hands on this unbelievably packed boxed set, and while we can’t reveal full details of pricing, we can confirm that the set will cost less than £200 or $300 (US) when it launches. That’s a lot of Beakies for your bucks…
As it says "when it launches" it might still change afterwards I guess.
It begs the question going forward will they replace only the most iconic or most popular resin kits into plastic? Things like the Leviathan are immensely popular in both Heresy and 40k, but what else would realistically be in plastic?
My hopes is that they release a "character upgrade" box that would allow you to further Customisation to praetors, including making them into their specialised roles, such as master of signals, champion, etc. In their specific Mk of armours too.
I've heard it told that legion-specific units and primarchs would remain in resin, but everything shared between multiple legions would at least be a candidate for plastic.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I've heard it told that legion-specific units and primarchs would remain in resin, but everything shared between multiple legions would at least be a candidate for plastic.
I hope this stays the case for a long time. I’d rather see the plastic range expanded into other factions before they start adding legion specific units in plastic.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I hope this stays the case for a long time. I’d rather see the plastic range expanded into other factions before they start adding legion specific units in plastic.
I'd be worried for you that we won't see the same push to plastic for other factions, because you'd be talking about a lot of kits that wouldn't have the same potential sales as appealing to marine players. As it stands, making more legion kits is almost a braindead easy choice for GW because of the sheer number of legion players. I suspect mechanicum will see some of their base units in plastic but that's it.
Most generic stuff is already plastic. The only things missing would be Assault and Breacher squads with perhaps a form of power armoured Recon squad.
For most vehicles its just patterns and the gist seems to be that anything removed from the FW range in recently will be getting plastic kit e.g. Deimos vehicles.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I hope this stays the case for a long time. I’d rather see the plastic range expanded into other factions before they start adding legion specific units in plastic.
I'd be worried for you that we won't see the same push to plastic for other factions, because you'd be talking about a lot of kits that wouldn't have the same potential sales as appealing to marine players. As it stands, making more legion kits is almost a braindead easy choice for GW because of the sheer number of legion players. I suspect mechanicum will see some of their base units in plastic but that's it.
Custodes would make sense since their units are used in 40k
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I hope this stays the case for a long time. I’d rather see the plastic range expanded into other factions before they start adding legion specific units in plastic.
I'd be worried for you that we won't see the same push to plastic for other factions, because you'd be talking about a lot of kits that wouldn't have the same potential sales as appealing to marine players. As it stands, making more legion kits is almost a braindead easy choice for GW because of the sheer number of legion players. I suspect mechanicum will see some of their base units in plastic but that's it.
Custodes would make sense since their units are used in 40k
That seems like something gw might hold back until the next custodes codex release. At least with the sicaran he is willing to port units directly from resin to plastic again instead of making alternate designs, so hopefully the caladus and custodes contemptors get plasticized.
I hope the project is enough of a success that they begin to port some of the "units of renown" over to plastic. The quality of resin sculpts is so uneven. The NL Contekar Elite and DA Cenobium terminators are magnificently well sculpted. The Salamander Firedrakes and pyroclasts are just mushy messes of poorly sculpted texture. Feels like a long shot though, maybe we'll see a DA/BA/SW unit, but I'm not holding out hope.
There were rumors of faction-specific upgrade sprues. I really hope those look more like the Black Templar kit than the six-legion-specific upgrade blisters. This would be an awesome area to go overboard and have lots of faction-specific bits so people can really make their armies their own.
Theres enough generic units to keep them busy for years to come before they should even consider addressing "units of renown". Its hard to justify plasticizing a unit that only Imperial Fists or Alpha Legion can use, when there are dozens of units that everyone can use.
chaos0xomega wrote: Its hard to justify plasticizing a unit that only Imperial Fists or Alpha Legion can use, when there are dozens of units that everyone can use.
Tell that to whatever clown who is deciding the sprues of next 40K mini. Instead of taking AoS approach and including generic version of whatever unit they are releasing to broaden sales, they double down on idiotic specifity. See canoness in the paragon walker, you can't have generic for your order, have to be specific, locked one. Primaris captain with claws and jump pack? No can do, has to be Shrike. Gravis techmarine to match your gravis army? LOLNO, better make him IH only. Etc, etc. Customer appeal? What's that?
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Quick question about the starter- Are all the tactical marines just bolters or is there an option for bolt pistol and chain sword?
It's looking like just bolters. Bolt pistol and chainsword will probably be an upgrade pack in the future.
I'd expect assault marines to get a full kit. GW loves its jumping stances and traditionally assault marines had a harness across the chest for the jump pack.
The poses for the units in the main box just don't work as assaults.
my biggest fear is if they put out a HH assault marine kit it'll have those fething FLIGHT STANDS!
I didn't truly understand the meaning of fear until I read this post
right... I dunno why GW is so fixated on those stands.. they're AWEFUL
chaos0xomega wrote: Theres enough generic units to keep them busy for years to come before they should even consider addressing "units of renown". Its hard to justify plasticizing a unit that only Imperial Fists or Alpha Legion can use, when there are dozens of units that everyone can use.
I could see them doing a splash release of a "new generic unit" by having a Legion specific one to get released first, then the "generic" later.
IE: Something like the Mor Deythan Squad--bundle of a RG upgrade frame and Legion Recon Squad in one box.
Is there anything wrong with each Legion getting a signature unit?
Like, say, for World Eaters you could get their Red Butcher Terminators. For White Scars the Ebon Keshig. Dark Angels the Deathwing Companions. Ultramarines the Invictarus Suzerain. Alpha Legion Lernaean Terminators. Emperor's Children Kakophoni. Iron Hands Tyrant Siege Terminators. Night Lord Raptors.
And on on.
I realise that there are a lot of Terminators in the above list. Maybe as additional sprues for existing squads?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Is there anything wrong with each Legion getting a signature unit?
Like, say, for World Eaters you could get their Red Butcher Terminators. For White Scars the Ebon Keshig. Dark Angels the Deathwing Companions. Ultramarines the Invictarus Suzerain. Alpha Legion Lernaean Terminators. Emperor's Children Kakophoni. Iron Hands Tyrant Siege Terminators. Night Lord Raptors.
And on on.
I realise that there are a lot of Terminators in the above list. Maybe as additional sprues for existing squads?
Honestly trickling out updates of specialized units into plastic could be a great way to keep updating the game without just adding books or units, but I'm sure someone will tell me why it's bad.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Quick question about the starter- Are all the tactical marines just bolters or is there an option for bolt pistol and chain sword?
It's looking like just bolters. Bolt pistol and chainsword will probably be an upgrade pack in the future.
I'd expect assault marines to get a full kit. GW loves its jumping stances and traditionally assault marines had a harness across the chest for the jump pack.
The poses for the units in the main box just don't work as assaults.
my biggest fear is if they put out a HH assault marine kit it'll have those fething FLIGHT STANDS!
I didn't truly understand the meaning of fear until I read this post
right... I dunno why GW is so fixated on those stands.. they're AWEFUL
I miss the old ones, which says something, given how often they broke with hybrid metal/plastic (or all metal) vehicles. I stay still shy away from land speeders and dark eldar because of it.
But at least you could hide they old ones with a lot of vehicles so they didn't wreck the look of the model with a giant arc of bare, shiny plastic (and no real connector).
Despite all their technology, flight stands are something that have never improved over the years, and actually sometimes seem to go backwards in quality.
We haven't even seen a plastic kit of assault marines or breachers and people are already talking about legion-specific plastics...
Well, once they do get a lot of the generic ones out, and if they can get some nice legion-specific upgrade kits for shoulder pads and heads, then I'd be happy to see some of the legion-specific stuff to get some plastic conversion.
I feel like instead of simply moving more resin to plastic, they would take the opportunity to make new things, but who knows?
drbored wrote: We haven't even seen a plastic kit of assault marines or breachers and people are already talking about legion-specific plastics...
Well, once they do get a lot of the generic ones out, and if they can get some nice legion-specific upgrade kits for shoulder pads and heads, then I'd be happy to see some of the legion-specific stuff to get some plastic conversion.
I feel like instead of simply moving more resin to plastic, they would take the opportunity to make new things, but who knows?
I'm hoping for assault marines to be announced soon, but that's the Night Lords talking. Mainly what I want from early HH is MkVI legion specific upgrades. Bonus points for beaky batwing helmets.
drbored wrote: We haven't even seen a plastic kit of assault marines or breachers and people are already talking about legion-specific plastics...
Well, once they do get a lot of the generic ones out, and if they can get some nice legion-specific upgrade kits for shoulder pads and heads, then I'd be happy to see some of the legion-specific stuff to get some plastic conversion.
I feel like instead of simply moving more resin to plastic, they would take the opportunity to make new things, but who knows?
I'm hoping for assault marines to be announced soon, but that's the Night Lords talking. Mainly what I want from early HH is MkVI legion specific upgrades. Bonus points for beaky batwing helmets.
The Assault Marines box will probably just be a box of 50 chainswords, 1 hammer, 1 power sword, and 1 power fist.
drbored wrote: We haven't even seen a plastic kit of assault marines or breachers and people are already talking about legion-specific plastics...
Well, once they do get a lot of the generic ones out, and if they can get some nice legion-specific upgrade kits for shoulder pads and heads, then I'd be happy to see some of the legion-specific stuff to get some plastic conversion.
I feel like instead of simply moving more resin to plastic, they would take the opportunity to make new things, but who knows?
I'm hoping for assault marines to be announced soon, but that's the Night Lords talking. Mainly what I want from early HH is MkVI legion specific upgrades. Bonus points for beaky batwing helmets.
The Assault Marines box will probably just be a box of 50 chainswords, 1 hammer, 1 power sword, and 1 power fist.
drbored wrote: We haven't even seen a plastic kit of assault marines or breachers and people are already talking about legion-specific plastics...
Well, once they do get a lot of the generic ones out, and if they can get some nice legion-specific upgrade kits for shoulder pads and heads, then I'd be happy to see some of the legion-specific stuff to get some plastic conversion.
I feel like instead of simply moving more resin to plastic, they would take the opportunity to make new things, but who knows?
I'm hoping for assault marines to be announced soon, but that's the Night Lords talking. Mainly what I want from early HH is MkVI legion specific upgrades. Bonus points for beaky batwing helmets.
The Assault Marines box will probably just be a box of 50 chainswords, 1 hammer, 1 power sword, and 1 power fist.
Meh. If it were a 40k chaos release, maybe. But that pile of boxes with 10s of heavy and special weapons says 'nah.'
drbored wrote: We haven't even seen a plastic kit of assault marines or breachers and people are already talking about legion-specific plastics...
Well, once they do get a lot of the generic ones out, and if they can get some nice legion-specific upgrade kits for shoulder pads and heads, then I'd be happy to see some of the legion-specific stuff to get some plastic conversion.
I feel like instead of simply moving more resin to plastic, they would take the opportunity to make new things, but who knows?
I'm hoping for assault marines to be announced soon, but that's the Night Lords talking. Mainly what I want from early HH is MkVI legion specific upgrades. Bonus points for beaky batwing helmets.
The Assault Marines box will probably just be a box of 50 chainswords, 1 hammer, 1 power sword, and 1 power fist.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Is there anything wrong with each Legion getting a signature unit?
Like, say, for World Eaters you could get their Red Butcher Terminators. For White Scars the Ebon Keshig. Dark Angels the Deathwing Companions. Ultramarines the Invictarus Suzerain. Alpha Legion Lernaean Terminators. Emperor's Children Kakophoni. Iron Hands Tyrant Siege Terminators. Night Lord Raptors.
And on on.
I realise that there are a lot of Terminators in the above list. Maybe as additional sprues for existing squads?
Honestly trickling out updates of specialized units into plastic could be a great way to keep updating the game without just adding books or units, but I'm sure someone will tell me why it's bad.
1) They're more marine releases.
2) They're firstborn releases, so not even relevant for most players because they're being squatted and everyone prefers Primaris proportions.
3) They're out of scale anyway as they're too big. They won't match up with the rest of the models in that army.
4) They're out of scale anyway as they're too small. They won't match up with the rest of the models in that army.
5) They're firstborn marine releases that only one army can use. And the 40k version of that army. And Deathwatch players. Or anyone with a DIY chapter with similar iconography. And anyone capable of owning a file or craft knife.
No One Important wrote: 2) They're firstborn releases, so not even relevant for most players because they're being squatted and everyone prefers Primaris proportions.
5) They're firstborn marine releases that only one army can use. And the 40k version of that army. And Deathwatch players. Or anyone with a DIY chapter with similar iconography. And anyone capable of owning a file or craft knife.
Who cares? These aren't 40k releases. They're 30k releases. They're for a different game.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Is there anything wrong with each Legion getting a signature unit?
Like, say, for World Eaters you could get their Red Butcher Terminators. For White Scars the Ebon Keshig. Dark Angels the Deathwing Companions. Ultramarines the Invictarus Suzerain. Alpha Legion Lernaean Terminators. Emperor's Children Kakophoni. Iron Hands Tyrant Siege Terminators. Night Lord Raptors.
And on on.
I realise that there are a lot of Terminators in the above list. Maybe as additional sprues for existing squads?
There’s nothing wrong with per se. If the game becomes popular then they should be able to give full support to a lot of factions.
My only issue is that I think giving each legion specific squads in plastic should be something only considered once every army in the Heresy has a range of basic troops and some vehicles in plastic. I’d want to include Mechanicum and Solar Auxilia in that. Heresy has more factions than marines and they deserve plastic too.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Is there anything wrong with each Legion getting a signature unit?
Like, say, for World Eaters you could get their Red Butcher Terminators. For White Scars the Ebon Keshig. Dark Angels the Deathwing Companions. Ultramarines the Invictarus Suzerain. Alpha Legion Lernaean Terminators. Emperor's Children Kakophoni. Iron Hands Tyrant Siege Terminators. Night Lord Raptors.
And on on.
I realise that there are a lot of Terminators in the above list. Maybe as additional sprues for existing squads?
Honestly trickling out updates of specialized units into plastic could be a great way to keep updating the game without just adding books or units, but I'm sure someone will tell me why it's bad.
1) They're more marine releases.
2) They're firstborn releases, so not even relevant for most players because they're being squatted and everyone prefers Primaris proportions.
3) They're out of scale anyway as they're too big. They won't match up with the rest of the models in that army.
4) They're out of scale anyway as they're too small. They won't match up with the rest of the models in that army.
5) They're firstborn marine releases that only one army can use. And the 40k version of that army. And Deathwatch players. Or anyone with a DIY chapter with similar iconography. And anyone capable of owning a file or craft knife.
Points 1-5 are countered by "they're Horus Heresy releases" that don't have to be reliant on 40k to be a thing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Is there anything wrong with each Legion getting a signature unit?
Like, say, for World Eaters you could get their Red Butcher Terminators. For White Scars the Ebon Keshig. Dark Angels the Deathwing Companions. Ultramarines the Invictarus Suzerain. Alpha Legion Lernaean Terminators. Emperor's Children Kakophoni. Iron Hands Tyrant Siege Terminators. Night Lord Raptors.
And on on.
I realise that there are a lot of Terminators in the above list. Maybe as additional sprues for existing squads?
There’s nothing wrong with per se. If the game becomes popular then they should be able to give full support to a lot of factions.
My only issue is that I think giving each legion specific squads in plastic should be something only considered once every army in the Heresy has a range of basic troops and some vehicles in plastic. I’d want to include Mechanicum and Solar Auxilia in that. Heresy has more factions than marines and they deserve plastic too.
2) They're firstborn releases, so not even relevant for most players because they're being squatted and everyone prefers Primaris proportions.
3) They're out of scale anyway as they're too big. They won't match up with the rest of the models in that army.
4) They're out of scale anyway as they're too small. They won't match up with the rest of the models in that army.
5) They're firstborn marine releases that only one army can use. And the 40k version of that army. And Deathwatch players. Or anyone with a DIY chapter with similar iconography. And anyone capable of owning a file or craft knife.
No One Important wrote: 2) They're firstborn releases, so not even relevant for most players because they're being squatted and everyone prefers Primaris proportions.
5) They're firstborn marine releases that only one army can use. And the 40k version of that army. And Deathwatch players. Or anyone with a DIY chapter with similar iconography. And anyone capable of owning a file or craft knife.
Who cares? These aren't 40k releases. They're 30k releases. They're for a different game.
Basic utility. Would it be better for players and sales to have gw make 18 kits each for a single legion, or combine that sprue budget and plasticize a dozen kits that can be taken by all 18 legions?
MajorWesJanson wrote: Basic utility. Would it be better for players and sales to have gw make 18 kits each for a single legion, or combine that sprue budget and plasticize a dozen kits that can be taken by all 18 legions?
Kind of as simple as that. And the more plastic kits there are, the easier is to do conversions if you want to personalize stuff for your legion.
Plus there's oodles of stuff that everyone could use that would be nice to see in plastic, as the aforementioned breachers and assault squads, or bikes, jetbikes, speeders et all.
Has there been any indication of the sort of release schedule we're looking at for the things we've seen? As in, is everything so far going to be a day 1 release, or more spread out?
I'm assuming the two army list books will release alongside the main box, and I would imagine the weapon sets as well (else it would be really annoying if you wanted to build any of the marines from the box with optional weapons).
The re-release of the other marks of armour would also seem likely, but wondering about the various tanks etc. thinking it might be likely that they will come out shortly later, rather than a huge one day release.
Don't remember hearing anything about this on the stream, don't know if there were any hints at the open day?
Points 1-5 are countered by "they're Horus Heresy releases" that don't have to be reliant on 40k to be a thing.
I was just getting them out of the way, but considering 1 already came up (wanting releases for non-marine units before releasing legion specific releases) and 3/4 have nothing to do with 40k but instead are the inevitable whining of someone whose new shiny plastic interemptors are a different size than their old resin interemptors, who do I talk to about changing my user name to Cassandra? Oh nevermind, don't answer. They wouldnt believe me anyway.
I am pretty well versed in the classics and even I don't know what point is being made.
People complain about Warhammer and GW? Does the poster also want us to know water is wet?
So since they skipped legion articles over the weekend, five more this week, five more next week, the final four the week after that and pre-order on June 4? Or pre-order announcement on June 5 and a week of general rules previews after that?
Albertorius wrote: Well, the seam line on that shoulder pad is totally invisible xD
If you worked for the wages GW pays, you wouldn't bother doing anything about it either.
I was tempted, but I'm not going to say any more about it because I don't think we need another three pages of that particular discussion.
Mr_Rose wrote: Who writes these articles? Who do that think they are writing them for?
I work as a copy writer and I can promise you, this is just cynical bs made to try and appeal to the lowest common denominator. People telling others to 'lighten up' over it are ironically in a sense far more cynical than the people they are attacking.
Mr_Rose wrote: Who writes these articles? Who do that think they are writing them for?
I work as a copy writer and I can promise you, this is just cynical bs made to try and appeal to the lowest common denominator. People telling others to 'lighten up' over it are ironically in a sense far more cynical than the people they are attacking.
More's the pity. I can understand not taking things too seriously, but I don't think treating your own product as a joke is a good idea.
blood reaper wrote: I work as a copy writer and I can promise you, this is just cynical bs made to try and appeal to the lowest common denominator. People telling others to 'lighten up' over it are ironically in a sense far more cynical than the people they are attacking.
Oh look, another individual who needs more lamps in their life.
"Help I'm being attacked by people who aren't constantly miserable about warhammer!"
blood reaper wrote: I work as a copy writer and I can promise you, this is just cynical bs made to try and appeal to the lowest common denominator. People telling others to 'lighten up' over it are ironically in a sense far more cynical than the people they are attacking.
Oh look, another individual who needs more lamps in their life.
Bro it's cynical corporate marketing - it's not something worthy of defence.
I mean, they probably got a chuckle or two in the first couple articles, but is this really going to last for another dozen articles without becoming tiresome?
blood reaper wrote: Bro it's cynical corporate marketing - it's not something worthy of defence.
Bro, who cares? If it's not worthy of defense then it isn't worthy of attack either. Find something else to wind yourself up about.
Because no time is lost saying "this is crap". The desperation for positivity and endless optimism on this place about everything and anything is almost as bad as reddit.
I can imagine, going from the title (and what was said about the WS article) that it reeks of redditry. I wouldn't know because I haven't read it and I'll be content to skip all of them, they really don't matter. Whatever is written for actual the books, on the other hand, I'll be disappointed if it isn't good.
Mr_Rose wrote: Who writes these articles? Who do that think they are writing them for?
I work as a copy writer and I can promise you, this is just cynical bs made to try and appeal to the lowest common denominator. People telling others to 'lighten up' over it are ironically in a sense far more cynical than the people they are attacking.
I threw up a bit in my mouth when I read that title.
At first I thought maybe they're trying to appeal to a younger audience compared to the 30 and 40 somethings, but I would have cringed at that even as a youngling, and what 10 year old has $300 to spend on a HH boxed set anyway...
I'm curious who reads this and becomes inspired to buy into HH versus the number of people who are put off by it. It seems to me the best approach would be to have a more balanced writing style to avoid putting off either type of 40k fan, rather than writing it for the clown-shoes type of 40k fan and making everyone else cringe.
On the plus side, this is probably my least hated painting style out of the tutorials so far. Granted I think the end result looked like arse, but the same basic techniques followed a bit differently could lead to something that looks decent and is actually quick to paint.
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infinite_array wrote: I mean, they probably got a chuckle or two in the first couple articles, but is this really going to last for another dozen articles without becoming tiresome?
I'm sure out of the thousands of people who read those articles they got a chuckle... or two... in total.
Mr_Rose wrote: Who writes these articles? Who do that think they are writing them for?
Not for the tryhard crowd on their misguided attemp at making warhammer into tsport.
LOL, I would imagine most of the people who cringed at this were people who are happy enough making fun of their own hobby, but when GW themselves try and get on the joke it's just off putting. It's like when your 43 year old teacher tries to get hip with the humour of the 14 years old they're teaching.
Mr_Rose wrote:Who writes these articles? Who do that think they are writing them for?
Me. It's funny.
Same.
GW's light hearted posts and advertising for HH are making me really excited to buy into it and actually play the game (I own a Word Bearers army I got for a song from a local player a year or two ago but have not played the system yet other than a descending familiarity of 3rd through 7th 40k)
It's a weird dichotomy as these posts from GW get me into an elevated mood about the game, and then visiting Dakka to see if there's any actual rumors in the Rumors thread to feed my excitement (maybe someone got a leak of an unannounced release! or similar) unfailingly deflates my mood because of the average acrid non-news-and-rumor-related post content
Points 1-5 are countered by "they're Horus Heresy releases" that don't have to be reliant on 40k to be a thing.
I was just getting them out of the way, but considering 1 already came up (wanting releases for non-marine units before releasing legion specific releases) and 3/4 have nothing to do with 40k but instead are the inevitable whining of someone whose new shiny plastic interemptors are a different size than their old resin interemptors, who do I talk to about changing my user name to Cassandra? Oh nevermind, don't answer. They wouldnt believe me anyway.
If someone wants to whine on the internet nothing is going to stop them so why make it a concern?
JWBS wrote:The upset caused by the criticism is mildly amusing. Classic Dakka.
As is the criticism itself. Classic Dakka.
"I don't like this" <- Reasonable statement
"I do like this" <- Reasonable statement
"You shouldn't dislike this otherwise you're a tryhard" <- Absurd statement
I'm mostly questioning it from a marketing perspective. I appreciate some people might find it amusing while I find it cringe... but if you liked it does it make you more likely to buy it enough to offset the decrease in desire to buy of the people who found it cringe?
It seems to me the smart marketing decision is to hit somewhere in the middle, where you're not putting off the people who like silliness by being absurdly serious about toy dollies, nor are you putting off the people who take their hobby a bit more seriously by being super silly.
HH has always had more of a gritty bent to it, so I think in this case it's more important to be more balanced (anyone still collecting 40k Space Wolves has probably embraced the clown shoes, though folk interested in 30k Vlka Fenryka are probably the types who were put off by Logan Santa in his sleigh).
People can enjoy what they want to enjoy, people can cringe at what makes them cringe. I would think as a business though you aren't trying to make a significant portion of your customers cringe.
Mr_Rose wrote: Who writes these articles? Who do that think they are writing them for?
I work as a copy writer and I can promise you, this is just cynical bs made to try and appeal to the lowest common denominator. People telling others to 'lighten up' over it are ironically in a sense far more cynical than the people they are attacking.
More's the pity. I can understand not taking things too seriously, but I don't think treating your own product as a joke is a good idea.
GW has has a comedic tone in a lot of their marketting going back a long ways. Did people forget the week the Orks "ran" the Regimental Standard? Or even the more recent hover trike preview?
Marketting =/= lore and the tone between the two don't have to match.
Mr_Rose wrote: Who writes these articles? Who do that think they are writing them for?
I work as a copy writer and I can promise you, this is just cynical bs made to try and appeal to the lowest common denominator. People telling others to 'lighten up' over it are ironically in a sense far more cynical than the people they are attacking.
More's the pity. I can understand not taking things too seriously, but I don't think treating your own product as a joke is a good idea.
GW has has a comedic tone in a lot of their marketting going back a long ways. Did people forget the week the Orks "ran" the Regimental Standard? Or even the more recent hover trike preview?
Marketting =/= lore and the tone between the two don't have to match.
Agreed. Also, 30Ks and 40Ks background is far too absurd to be taken seriousely all the time. I mean, White Scars, Space Wolves, Nightlords and others are clearly joke factions so why would you present them dead-seriously? Primarch Iron Hand with his Iron Hands from the Iron Hands legion? Yeah...
JWBS wrote:The upset caused by the criticism is mildly amusing. Classic Dakka.
As is the criticism itself. Classic Dakka.
"I don't like this" <- Reasonable statement
"I do like this" <- Reasonable statement
"You shouldn't dislike this otherwise you're a tryhard" <- Absurd statement
"Who would like this? A clown-shoes type of 40k fan" - Also an absurd statement.
Sorry, works both ways.
I'm mostly questioning it from a marketing perspective. I appreciate some people might find it amusing while I find it cringe... but if you liked it does it make you more likely to buy it enough to offset the decrease in desire to buy of the people who found it cringe?
Do you think there's a lot of people who will refuse to buy it because it's cringe?
It seems to me the smart marketing decision is to hit somewhere in the middle, where you're not putting off the people who like silliness by being absurdly serious about toy dollies, nor are you putting off the people who take their hobby a bit more seriously by being super silly.
If you can't take your hobby seriously because someone else is poking fun at it, that's kinda on you. Likewise, if I couldn't have fun because everyone else was being super serious, then that's on me, and is up to make to make my own fun.
HH has always had more of a gritty bent to it, so I think in this case it's more important to be more balanced (anyone still collecting 40k Space Wolves has probably embraced the clown shoes, though folk interested in 30k Vlka Fenryka are probably the types who were put off by Logan Santa in his sleigh).
These articles aren't the same thing as the actual 30k campaign/novel material, and I think that's good. If you want the "gritty" stuff, re-read your Black Books. If you want something more tongue-in-cheek and trivial, then read these articles. If we're talking about being "balanced", then these articles provide that, in contrast to the Black Books.
People can enjoy what they want to enjoy, people can cringe at what makes them cringe. I would think as a business though you aren't trying to make a significant portion of your customers cringe.
Is the cringe enough to put you off buying it entirely? If it cringes you out, do you need to read the completely optional webpage articles?
ClockworkZion wrote: GW has has a comedic tone in a lot of their marketting going back a long ways. Did people forget the week the Orks "ran" the Regimental Standard? Or even the more recent hover trike preview?
Marketting =/= lore and the tone between the two don't have to match.
Indeed, but this isn't light hearted nor humourous. This just treats the entire concept and product as a joke. It is really off putting.
It's unfunny. It makes the entire concept look crap and a bit of joke by looking and sounding cheap, tacky. cringy, embarrassing and I don't want anything to do with it.
zedmeister wrote:It's unfunny. It makes the entire concept look crap and a bit of joke by looking and sounding cheap, tacky. cringy, embarrassing and I don't want anything to do with it.
Okay. It is funny. It makes the entire concept sound like something I can have fun with and engage with as an enjoyable hobby by looking and sounding fun, human, and filled with personality, and I want more to do with this than a more dour, clenched teeth, regurgitating-the-same-information article.
JWBS wrote:The upset caused by the criticism is mildly amusing. Classic Dakka.
As is the criticism itself. Classic Dakka.
"I don't like this" <- Reasonable statement
"I do like this" <- Reasonable statement
"You shouldn't dislike this otherwise you're a tryhard" <- Absurd statement
"Who would like this? A clown-shoes type of 40k fan" - Also an absurd statement.
Sorry, works both ways.
LOL, sorry if that sounded harsh, I don't actually consider "clown-shoes type" to be an insult but I can see how it could be misinterpreted. It just means person who likes the silly aspects of stuff.
"Tryhard" to me always has a negative connotation, "clown-shoes" is just someone who likes silly stuff.
I've frequently heard the term "clown shoes" or "big red nose" used by people to describe themselves liking something that your typical person might find silly, whether it be cars, hobbies, humour, whatever.
It wouldn't have even become a talking point if didn't start attacking people for not liking it.
I'm mostly questioning it from a marketing perspective. I appreciate some people might find it amusing while I find it cringe... but if you liked it does it make you more likely to buy it enough to offset the decrease in desire to buy of the people who found it cringe?
Do you think there's a lot of people who will refuse to buy it because it's cringe?
I doubt that'd be the sole reason, I think there'd be some who are put off by it, and surely the purpose of marketing is to draw people in rather than putting them off, no?
It seems to me the smart marketing decision is to hit somewhere in the middle, where you're not putting off the people who like silliness by being absurdly serious about toy dollies, nor are you putting off the people who take their hobby a bit more seriously by being super silly.
If you can't take your hobby seriously because someone else is poking fun at it, that's kinda on you. Likewise, if I couldn't have fun because everyone else was being super serious, then that's on me, and is up to make to make my own fun.
It's not "someone else", it's literally the company making and marketing it.
If it cringes you out, do you need to read the completely optional webpage articles?
Again, it's marketing, it's supposed to bring people in and not push them away.
Someone on a previous page said they get deflated seeing the negativity on dakka... that's fair enough, but do you really want people being deflated by the actual marketing material designed to get people interested in it?
I would say this very discussion is evidence that such marketing is a bad idea, the fact it's garnered such negative bickering among the community is a bad outcome.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: Okay. It is funny. It makes the entire concept sound like something I can have fun with and engage with as an enjoyable hobby by looking and sounding fun, human, and filled with personality, and I want more to do with this than a more dour, clenched teeth, regurgitating-the-same-information article.
Actually, I want to see more humour based on the subtle acerbic satire that 40k has offered up in the past rather than this meme crap. But hey ho, horses for courses
TalonZahn wrote: Jesus, this conversation is more stupid than the split shoulderpad rant....
Don't get me started, I did notice in the SW video more than the others the split shoulder pad and eagerly await people to magically turn it invisible with a simple application of <insert thin plastic cement here>.
As someone who went through most of my life being told by others that I have no sense of humor and take things too seriously and am way too negative, etc. take it from me when I say that you lot have no sense of humor, take things too seriously, and are way too fething negative. We are talking about toy soldiers here, specifically a blog post about toy soldiers thats meant to be tongue-in-cheek. This is less than nothing to get your feathers in a ruffle over, if you are getting your feathers in a ruffle over it then you got bigger problems than "cynical corporate marketing" or whatever malarky you're bandying around.
Now, best part of the article was definitely the part where they call out the silliness (nay, abject stupidity) of the Space Wolves having about a dozen different names they go by. They're fething Space Wolves, people that go around referring to them as "the Rout" or "Vlka Fenryka" are try-hard pretentious hipster snobs.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: Okay. It is funny. It makes the entire concept sound like something I can have fun with and engage with as an enjoyable hobby by looking and sounding fun, human, and filled with personality, and I want more to do with this than a more dour, clenched teeth, regurgitating-the-same-information article.
Actually, I want to see more humour based on the subtle acerbic satire that 40k has offered up in the past rather than this meme crap. But hey ho, horses for courses
Yeah, maybe I'm misremembering or looking through rose tinted glasses at the past, but I seem to recall them being smarter about their humour and satire. Sure, lizardmen has silly names, but the way they used those silly names in an otherwise well written story was what made the silly names funny and bearable.
Agreed. Also, 30Ks and 40Ks background is far too absurd to be taken seriousely all the time. I mean, White Scars, Space Wolves, Nightlords and others are clearly joke factions so why would you present them dead-seriously? Primarch Iron Hand with his Iron Hands from the Iron Hands legion? Yeah...
Oh Primarch Sand-Eater who can catch and crush energy weapon shots in his hands? Yeah, totally supposed to be read 100% seriously all the time.
Mr_Rose wrote:Who writes these articles? Who do that think they are writing them for?
Me. It's funny.
Indeed, it is...
Some folks should chill and relax, you're not forced to read them or see them in the Books and Rules...
Anyway... it's also funny how much some folks get triggered by those articles...
ClockworkZion wrote: GW has has a comedic tone in a lot of their marketting going back a long ways. Did people forget the week the Orks "ran" the Regimental Standard? Or even the more recent hover trike preview?
There was also that White Dwarf in 2018 with the Ork Thema or the Black Gobbo issue back in the 90s.
blood reaper wrote: Bro it's cynical corporate marketing - it's not something worthy of defence.
Bro, who cares? If it's not worthy of defense then it isn't worthy of attack either. Find something else to wind yourself up about.
Because no time is lost saying "this is crap". The desperation for positivity and endless optimism on this place about everything and anything is almost as bad as reddit.
You found optimism on Dakka? What??? Are we on the same forum?
Honestly if that article upset anyone then they bought wayyyyy too hard into the "Heresy is srs bznss historical" crap, and clearly never opened a White Dwarf in the past 30 years. In-jokes and self-deprecating humour are rife on WHC. It's been their thing since it launched, carrying on that 90s White Dwarf tradition. Sorry if it's not all sombre sadness and being angry about which mark of armour anyone is allowed to use, etc.
Back on topic, sometime in the future, I hope that GW makes plastic versions of Legion-specific elites. The Rampager Squad needs to seriously be updated, and I would sacrifice to Khorne for a plastic Gal Vorbak kit.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Back on topic, sometime in the future, I hope that GW makes plastic versions of Legion-specific elites. The Rampager Squad needs to seriously be updated, and I would sacrifice to Khorne for a plastic Gal Vorbak kit.
I feel like they'll mostly focus on getting the shared units into plastic first. Hopefully in all marks in the long run for people who want them, but I'm all in on the MkVI train for Night Lords. I have no beakie nostalgia, but honestly I've really warmed up to them the more I've seen.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Back on topic, sometime in the future, I hope that GW makes plastic versions of Legion-specific elites. The Rampager Squad needs to seriously be updated, and I would sacrifice to Khorne for a plastic Gal Vorbak kit.
I feel like they'll mostly focus on getting the shared units into plastic first. Hopefully in all marks in the long run for people who want them, but I'm all in on the MkVI train for Night Lords. I have no beakie nostalgia, but honestly I've really warmed up to them the more I've seen.
I for one am hoping the rumored plastic Deimos Predator, Vindicator, and Whirlwind kits come out. I have been reserving a vintage RT Rhino and Predator to use for 30k but would almost rather shuffle them over to my little RTB01 vs RTB02 minis project and go full new plastic Deimos kits style for my 30k fellas.
Tyel wrote: Hate Space Wolves, always will hate Space Wolves. But that paintjob is amazing.
Legion Specific units are obviously cool - but equally, its a lot of investment for what could be a relatively niche return.
I mean has there been any polling of HH players by faction?
That would be... difficult. At least, doing 30k players, and not people who might, people who want to and 40k players who want to weigh in on their favorites.
My guess would be that there is some weird skews in there, particularly on the loyalist side, for legions that were larger parts of the narrative. (though some will like that aspect).
I also think the legion special rules changing from their previous form to their new forms will cause some migration. Particularly for the ones in the older books that had... less.
judgedoug wrote:I for one am hoping the rumored plastic Deimos Predator, Vindicator, and Whirlwind kits come out
I think they'd be crazy not to do them. It may be a bit, but with the Rhino chassis done, it'd be weird to stop. (Same with assault marines).
I get hesitation on legion-specifics, but the basics (and cross-game basics at that, which they've called out for both the Rhino and Sicarian).. even for Games 'Missed Opportunity' Workshop, that seems a bit much.
Tyel wrote: I mean has there been any polling of HH players by faction?
As far as I'm aware, the spread is pretty even.
I think the more narrative influence of the setting encourages people to go for themes and stories rather than OP broken stuff.
At an upcoming HH event I'm going to, 16 Legions are represented, good showings from Mechanicum and Militia as well as Talons and Blackshields. There are duplicates but overall its a very mixed bag of armies and we haven't even got to the lists yet. The last event had multiple Scars players and they all ran very different lists. One mechanised, one biker and a full recon company.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Back on topic, sometime in the future, I hope that GW makes plastic versions of Legion-specific elites. The Rampager Squad needs to seriously be updated, and I would sacrifice to Khorne for a plastic Gal Vorbak kit.
Imagine if the legion upgrade sprues didn't just have shoulder pads and legion-specific weapons but instead had all the parts necessary to turn a regular unit into a legion-specific unit - if all of those parts were used on a single unit. For example, if the Dark Angels sprue had hooded cataphractii heads, cataphractii shoulder pads, terranic greatswords for cataphractii, a few cataphractii front torsos, etc. But no legs and only the necessary arms to match the weapons. It could be used to make very Dark Angel praetor or to carry on the aesthetic to regular Cataphractii terminator squads by only using a few of the options. Or make sergeants stand out a bit. Or build Knights Cenobium if you used every single terminator part to upgrade a box of Cataphractii. Ideally it would have parts to upgrade at least one type of terminator and one type of power armor to legion-specific units, but not all the parts to build a complete unit on its own except possibly just enough to build one terminator and one power armor praetor. Might be too much for a single sprue, in which case it could be set up so you get a little over half of what you need so that two sprues would cover a 5 man squad and still allow you to build a praetor or scatter upgrade parts to other units. With some clever work and reliance on the base kit, it wouldn't even appear too repetative. Of course it wouldn't work for units that are wholely unique in appearance, but it would cover more than a few.
I know it's more likely we'll get a sprue with 10 mk 6 pads, 10 mk 4 pads, 10 mk 3 pads, 10 cataphractii pads, 10 tartaros pads, a few heads, some accessories, and a scattering of legion-specific weapons - and even that is too much - but it would be a nice way for them to bring in the unique units and help tie in their aesthetics with the rest of a force, without even taking up an additional production slot. Though people would complain about why didn't GW just add legs so you can build the unit without buying a second box.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Maybe a silly question- Where do you find the various Legion rules? I've heard the game is based on 7th ed but I haven't seen any "official" rules.
There was a large playtest document leak a while back, but on launch the game is going to have it's own ruleset in the boxset that'll see individual release later as well.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Is there anything wrong with each Legion getting a signature unit?
Like, say, for World Eaters you could get their Red Butcher Terminators. For White Scars the Ebon Keshig. Dark Angels the Deathwing Companions. Ultramarines the Invictarus Suzerain. Alpha Legion Lernaean Terminators. Emperor's Children Kakophoni. Iron Hands Tyrant Siege Terminators. Night Lord Raptors.
And on on.
I realise that there are a lot of Terminators in the above list. Maybe as additional sprues for existing squads?
Honestly trickling out updates of specialized units into plastic could be a great way to keep updating the game without just adding books or units, but I'm sure someone will tell me why it's bad.
1) They're more marine releases.
2) They're firstborn releases, so not even relevant for most players because they're being squatted and everyone prefers Primaris proportions.
3) They're out of scale anyway as they're too big. They won't match up with the rest of the models in that army.
4) They're out of scale anyway as they're too small. They won't match up with the rest of the models in that army.
5) They're firstborn marine releases that only one army can use. And the 40k version of that army. And Deathwatch players. Or anyone with a DIY chapter with similar iconography. And anyone capable of owning a file or craft knife.
Who says HH stuff needs to be useable in both games? I'd prefer they keep them segregated personally, HH is the more serious and adult version of the game now with all the Tonka truck looking toys in the #New40K line.
"there aren’t currently any such plans for the Legion-specific units or Primarchs."
Yeah, that's totally a nail in the coffin.
A. There are plans, I guarantee you it has been discussed, analyzed and mathed out in terms of both cost, risk and reward.
B. Whether or not it comes to fruition is entirely dependent on how the second edition of the game does, how it's received and what the player base askes GW for in any future surveys or emails.
For now, we have a pretty good idea of what we are getting. But what comes next (and I absolutely know something will come in the form of a second wave) is something we will just have to wait for.
Any future waves will tackle everything and anything that would belong in a generic Legion list prior to any unique units. Stormeagles, Mk2/5, Deredeo dreads, units using the Spartan chassis, units using the Sicaran chassis, Breachers, Dreadclaws, the list goes on before we would get close to Legion specifics.
Gert wrote: Any future waves will tackle everything and anything that would belong in a generic Legion list prior to any unique units. Stormeagles, Mk2/5, Deredeo dreads, units using the Spartan chassis, units using the Sicaran chassis, Breachers, Dreadclaws, the list goes on before we would get close to Legion specifics.
More than likely. Also we have three more Thursdays for new unit reveals including this week before the possible earliest preorder date, so I'd expect to see more stuff. Not going to lie, Stormeagles would be sick!
But I will die on the hill that if they see profit in releasing specific characters, primarchs or units, they will absolutely do it.
Well yeah there'd be money in it. But not as much money as generic stuff, plus FW is hardly making a loss when it sells specialist items and the character models are far better than GW.
Gert wrote: Well yeah there'd be money in it. But not as much money as generic stuff, plus FW is hardly making a loss when it sells specialist items and the character models are far better than GW.
Having the Generic stuff will be good. Hoping for a lot more to come. But, respectfully I think that [second part] is a matter of opinion. The plastic 40K guilliman looks much, much better than the Resin one. I'd much rather have them in plastic for ease of access. Many, many people do not collect the resin models because they simply do not wish to fight with Resin. That equates to a lot of lost sales.
Agreed. Also, 30Ks and 40Ks background is far too absurd to be taken seriousely all the time. I mean, White Scars, Space Wolves, Nightlords and others are clearly joke factions so why would you present them dead-seriously? Primarch Iron Hand with his Iron Hands from the Iron Hands legion? Yeah...
He should have had an Iron Neck.
HEYOOOOO
I'll see myself out
(iron hands are my legion so it's okay for me to make fun of primarch iron hand with his iron hands from the iron hands legion)
Who says HH stuff needs to be useable in both games? I'd prefer they keep them segregated personally, HH is the more serious and adult version of the game now with all the Tonka truck looking toys in the #New40K line.
Ferrus Manus eats sand. I think HH is just as silly, it's just buried under a LOT of bolter porn.
I mean we're getting the unique space wolf and 1k son characters in plastic, and Imperial fists and blood angels got those black library weekend minis. So we're seeing a liiitle bit of plastic characters. I'd not be TOO suprised to see GW foillow that up with more Heresy characters on the BL weekends.
as for the tone of the article, it feels to me they're just trying to have some fun. I imagine writing constant "THIS FACTION IS AWESOME" posts with complete seriousness gets boring over time.
maybe a third Praetor, while the two known are Set only?
Close Combat Weapons, Terminator Weapons, Assault Marines, the Leviathan and the Predator would be nice but whe have possible only three weeks remaining for previews. Maybe we will see Legion specific expansion sets with shoulder pads and other stuff.
blood reaper wrote: The desperation for positivity and endless optimism on this place about everything and anything is almost as bad as reddit.
Yeah, god forbid those of us that watched this place turn into a cesspool of negativity over the past 20 years look for any slight amount of the reverse.
blood reaper wrote: The desperation for positivity and endless optimism on this place about everything and anything is almost as bad as reddit.
Yeah, god forbid those of us that watched this place turn into a cesspool of negativity over the past 20 years look for any slight amount of the reverse.
I personally don't understand this war between positivity and negativity.
People that want to complain about a release will point to someone that likes the release and go "UGH, POSITIVITY!!!"
Someone that doesn't quite like the style GW is going with on a model will get dogpiled on by "UGH, NEGATIVITY!!!"
It's called having a different opinion. God forbid we leave it at that.
Strangest thing about it is that the people who don't like a certain thing bear no ill will towards the people that do like it, generally they're just expressing their dislike. The people that do like the thing though - they find this expression quite distressing. Actually it's probably not strange at all and just some sort of basic psychology - the people that liek the thing feel that they're being attacked, because at that moment, in their mind the thing is a proxy for them, the person that likes the thing.
BrianDavion wrote: I mean we're getting the unique space wolf and 1k son characters in plastic, and Imperial fists and blood angels got those black library weekend minis. So we're seeing a liiitle bit of plastic characters. I'd not be TOO suprised to see GW foillow that up with more Heresy characters on the BL weekends.
as for the tone of the article, it feels to me they're just trying to have some fun. I imagine writing constant "THIS FACTION IS AWESOME" posts with complete seriousness gets boring over time.
For sure, I wouldn't be surprised to see more of them and I hadn't thought of the Black Library celebration weekends as being a good release point for such things.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Plastic Stormeagle... of Fire Raptor. Now that'd be interesting.
I'm not familiar with their resin kits, but could they be combined into a dual build kit easily? They're very pretty airships.
JWBS wrote: Strangest thing about it is that the people who don't like a certain thing bear no ill will towards the people that do like it, generally they're just expressing their dislike. The people that do like the thing though - they find this expression quite distressing. Actually it's probably not strange at all and just some sort of basic psychology - the people that liek the thing feel that they're being attacked, because at that moment, in their mind the thing is a proxy for them, the person that likes the thing.
Ah yes, because the 20 years of accusations of white knighting when people aren't on board the negativity train never happened.
I have no issues with people not liking things, I do have some issues with the endless hyperbole about how everything is ruined forever everytime James Workshop breathes through his left nostril.
I admit I try to give GW some rope to hang themselves with when it comes to releases but it's because I've been burned by them in the past by getting too hyped, but I've also been pleasantly suprised so instead I withhold fully forming a position until I've seen the actual rules and the full release. I get that some people don't like this since I've been lamblasted for saying "wait for the codex" because the community has been left in the dark about details in the past which has left us looking a bit silly and reactionary but I've given up on telling people to wait and see.
Honestly I like it when GW lets the old school tongue in cheek show through even if some people can't stop taking a setting with heretical load bearing walls too seriously. To me part of the appeal of the setting is how ridiculous things are (flying churches through space, drop churches, a missile firing church organ mounted on top of a tank just to name some quick examples) presented like they're completely normal and you're the odd one for not seeing it as normal.
blood reaper wrote: The desperation for positivity and endless optimism on this place about everything and anything is almost as bad as reddit.
Yeah, god forbid those of us that watched this place turn into a cesspool of negativity over the past 20 years look for any slight amount of the reverse.
But fighting negativity with negativity (i.e., "I don't like this", "you're a tryhard for not liking this!") does not make a place more positive, it just makes it more negative.
If we want a more positive environment, the answer is to just reply to "I don't like this" with "Too bad, I do like it", then at most each side can expound on the aspects they do or don't like and since taste is subjective it just eventually ends once the analysis is exhausted and people just accept what they do and don't like.
It's when we get into the attacks on character on why people do / don't like something that things turn into a cesspool of negativity (and I say that acknowledging that I've likely said things that people have taken as attacks on their character even if I didn't intend them as such but maybe worded them carelessly).
H.B.M.C. wrote: Is there anything wrong with each Legion getting a signature unit?
Like, say, for World Eaters you could get their Red Butcher Terminators. For White Scars the Ebon Keshig. Dark Angels the Deathwing Companions. Ultramarines the Invictarus Suzerain. Alpha Legion Lernaean Terminators. Emperor's Children Kakophoni. Iron Hands Tyrant Siege Terminators. Night Lord Raptors.
And on on.
I realise that there are a lot of Terminators in the above list. Maybe as additional sprues for existing squads?
Honestly trickling out updates of specialized units into plastic could be a great way to keep updating the game without just adding books or units, but I'm sure someone will tell me why it's bad.
1) They're more marine releases.
2) They're firstborn releases, so not even relevant for most players because they're being squatted and everyone prefers Primaris proportions.
3) They're out of scale anyway as they're too big. They won't match up with the rest of the models in that army.
4) They're out of scale anyway as they're too small. They won't match up with the rest of the models in that army.
5) They're firstborn marine releases that only one army can use. And the 40k version of that army. And Deathwatch players. Or anyone with a DIY chapter with similar iconography. And anyone capable of owning a file or craft knife.
Who says HH stuff needs to be useable in both games? I'd prefer they keep them segregated personally, HH is the more serious and adult version of the game now with all the Tonka truck looking toys in the #New40K line.
yeah 'serious'. Dude, just because you pay 200 dollars more for your rectangle of resin doesn't make it 'mature' or 'adult' especially considering HH marines are still running around with those ridiculous little chicken legs.
blood reaper wrote: The desperation for positivity and endless optimism on this place about everything and anything is almost as bad as reddit.
Yeah, god forbid those of us that watched this place turn into a cesspool of negativity over the past 20 years look for any slight amount of the reverse.
Agreed. This forum is still entertaining though - it's generally the same 20 people that comment on everything telling you why something is poo poo.
Does anyone know what the standard number of models for a 30K army is? I’ve heard that it is more than 40k, and mostly consists of tactical marines. I stopped playing 40k a few years ago, but 30k has (cautiously) piqued my interest. It seems like the larger troop boxes would be inline with larger armies overall.
cpugeek13 wrote: Does anyone know what the standard number of models for a 30K army is? I’ve heard that it is more than 40k, and mostly consists of tactical marines. I stopped playing 40k a few years ago, but 30k has (cautiously) piqued my interest. It seems like the larger troop boxes would be inline with larger armies overall.
Eh it can depend entirely on what sort of list you want to run. It's very easy to get massive footslogger lists in 30k which can run near 100 infantry in a 2k list. But then if you craft a somewhat sensible list, then you're likely to find you'll have a number of infantry to a similar sized 40k game, as a lot of the points end up being sunk in expensive tanks/flyers/primarchs.
I imagine it would depend somewhat on the local meta somewhat too. In my area at any rate, unless playing ZM which normally runs 750-1250 points, games tend to start around the 2-2.5k points mark and average out at about 3-3.5k points. Then on top of that if you're playing to a specific Rite of War that will likely influence what you take. Pride of the Legion lists tend to run 20-30 terminators or may 40ish power armoured vets. Armour lists will be lower troops, maybe 20ish, but more tanks. One local guy like to cram in 6 fire raptors and feth all else into a list. (shockingly, people don't like playing him too much. )
It’s a helluva price if it’s true. Seems it’s from a reliable source who Valrak says is yet to be wrong.
I mean, it’s still a big old chunk of cash. Of course it is. But I’m going to stick my neck out and say for anyone looking to get into Horus Heresy, it’s pretty damned close to Ojectively Good Value.
Hell. Two of those and a judicious selection of the weapon packs, and you’ve a really solid (if admittedly unvaried) core force to pad out with tastier tidbits.
More so if online discounters can get you 20-25% off.
I still don't buy the announcement from the Stream that this set (with a hardcover rulebook) is permanent availaible. I guess we will see a smaller set (with a softcover rulebook) later like for Killteam and not three level starter system.
I've seen others say £180 too, but it may all just be coming ultimately from the same source. I'd be amazed and also pleased if this is true, down from the £240 first rumoured that's a very much better price and I didn't think 240 was terrible.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: "Who would like this? A clown-shoes type of 40k fan" - Also an absurd statement.
Sorry, works both ways.
LOL, sorry if that sounded harsh, I don't actually consider "clown-shoes type" to be an insult but I can see how it could be misinterpreted. It just means person who likes the silly aspects of stuff.
"Tryhard" to me always has a negative connotation, "clown-shoes" is just someone who likes silly stuff.
I think they absolutely both have negative connotations. Calling someone a clown when they express something they like isn't exactly a good thing, any more so than "tryhard" could be read as a positive thing. But I think you understand that you worded it badly, and didn't mean offence - however, that's not how it came across.
It wouldn't have even become a talking point if didn't start attacking people for not liking it.
In all fairness too, it also wouldn't have been a talking point if people had just moved on and not started insinuating that people were "clowns" or somehow less of a fan for enjoying it.
All I hope is that people don't kick this all off again with the next article. We've all shared our opinion on if we do or don't like it - doesn't need more than that.
Yeah, these painting videos are dull as dishwater and do not do the models justice. I get the argument that they're going for attainable paintjobs so as not to put off casuals but I think that's a mistake, there are plenty of simple techniques that give a more dramatic look than this very flat painting
All I hope is that people don't kick this all off again with the next article. We've all shared our opinion on if we do or don't like it - doesn't need more than that.
I, for one, await eagerly! I wonder what form the egregiousness will take? What (un)imaginative ways will they find to cringify the Noble Fists of Dorn? My breath is baited.
There are rumored legion-specific upgrade packs coming for at least some of the legions. Should we expect shoulder pads with legion insignia that can be used instead of the studded pads or is that not how the MK VI armor works? Really not looking forward to gluing, scraping, and gap-filling 40+ pads
BrianDavion wrote: I mean we're getting the unique space wolf and 1k son characters in plastic, and Imperial fists and blood angels got those black library weekend minis. So we're seeing a liiitle bit of plastic characters. I'd not be TOO suprised to see GW foillow that up with more Heresy characters on the BL weekends.
Not like the Wolf or Ahriman are new sculpts, though - they're just finally getting a solo release post-BoP. I'd be very wary of using either them or the BL releases to establish a trend.
flaherty wrote: There are rumored legion-specific upgrade packs coming for at least some of the legions. Should we expect shoulder pads with legion insignia that can be used instead of the studded pads or is that not how the MK VI armor works? Really not looking forward to gluing, scraping, and gap-filling 40+ pads
There's the FW pads, but they're fecking expensive, add ~$100USD (or $120 AUD) to kit out the full 40 models from the boxed set with FW resin.
I have thought about casting my own but I can't really be arsed and it'd probably end up a similar amount of work to just dealing with the seamlines. But yeah, I do find the seamlines to put a serious damper on my desire to buy the kit.
flaherty wrote: There are rumored legion-specific upgrade packs coming for at least some of the legions. Should we expect shoulder pads with legion insignia that can be used instead of the studded pads or is that not how the MK VI armor works? Really not looking forward to gluing, scraping, and gap-filling 40+ pads
When it's true, they will be shoulder pads for the right shoulder while the left one remains the studded.
flaherty wrote: There are rumored legion-specific upgrade packs coming for at least some of the legions. Should we expect shoulder pads with legion insignia that can be used instead of the studded pads or is that not how the MK VI armor works? Really not looking forward to gluing, scraping, and gap-filling 40+ pads
There's the FW pads, but they're fecking expensive, add ~$100USD (or $120 AUD) to kit out the full 40 models from the boxed set with FW resin.
I have thought about casting my own but I can't really be arsed and it'd probably end up a similar amount of work to just dealing with the seamlines. But yeah, I do find the seamlines to put a serious damper on my desire to buy the kit.
I'll go the easy way and just design and print me some.
flaherty wrote: There are rumored legion-specific upgrade packs coming for at least some of the legions. Should we expect shoulder pads with legion insignia that can be used instead of the studded pads or is that not how the MK VI armor works? Really not looking forward to gluing, scraping, and gap-filling 40+ pads
When it's true, they will be shoulder pads for the right shoulder while the left one remains the studded.
Don't insignia normally go on the left shoulder pad? So an insignia would replace the studded one? Or am I missing something?
flaherty wrote: There are rumored legion-specific upgrade packs coming for at least some of the legions. Should we expect shoulder pads with legion insignia that can be used instead of the studded pads or is that not how the MK VI armor works? Really not looking forward to gluing, scraping, and gap-filling 40+ pads
When it's true, they will be shoulder pads for the right shoulder while the left one remains the studded.
Don't insignia normally go on the left shoulder pad? So an insignia would replace the studded one? Or am I missing something?
flaherty wrote: There are rumored legion-specific upgrade packs coming for at least some of the legions. Should we expect shoulder pads with legion insignia that can be used instead of the studded pads or is that not how the MK VI armor works? Really not looking forward to gluing, scraping, and gap-filling 40+ pads
Not how the heraldry works. Chapter symbol goes on the right shoulder, studded is for the left. (Supposedly reinforced against incoming fire with the way marines are trained to aim and fire boltguns)
It was never clear why they changed the chapter symbol to the left when they retired the RTB kit, there had been quite a few 'Codex Astartes' articles about paint schemes and lots of artwork, and suddenly, randomly they were wrong.
flaherty wrote: There are rumored legion-specific upgrade packs coming for at least some of the legions. Should we expect shoulder pads with legion insignia that can be used instead of the studded pads or is that not how the MK VI armor works? Really not looking forward to gluing, scraping, and gap-filling 40+ pads
There's the FW pads, but they're fecking expensive, add ~$100USD (or $120 AUD) to kit out the full 40 models from the boxed set with FW resin.
I have thought about casting my own but I can't really be arsed and it'd probably end up a similar amount of work to just dealing with the seamlines. But yeah, I do find the seamlines to put a serious damper on my desire to buy the kit.
I'll go the easy way and just design and print me some.
I have a 3D printer, but I dunno if it's good enough to print a shoulder pad without visible layer lines somewhere.
flaherty wrote: There are rumored legion-specific upgrade packs coming for at least some of the legions. Should we expect shoulder pads with legion insignia that can be used instead of the studded pads or is that not how the MK VI armor works? Really not looking forward to gluing, scraping, and gap-filling 40+ pads
When it's true, they will be shoulder pads for the right shoulder while the left one remains the studded.
Don't insignia normally go on the left shoulder pad? So an insignia would replace the studded one? Or am I missing something?
Yeah. You're missing the studs ^^
Is that a studded armour thing only? Because the pics I found on FW of sculpted insignia typically show the insignia on the left.
flaherty wrote: There are rumored legion-specific upgrade packs coming for at least some of the legions. Should we expect shoulder pads with legion insignia that can be used instead of the studded pads or is that not how the MK VI armor works? Really not looking forward to gluing, scraping, and gap-filling 40+ pads
Not how the heraldry works. Chapter symbol goes on the right shoulder, studded is for the left. (Supposedly reinforced against incoming fire with the way marines are trained to aim and fire boltguns)
It was never clear why they changed the chapter symbol to the left when they retired the RTB kit, there had been quite a few 'Codex Astartes' articles about paint schemes and lots of artwork, and suddenly, randomly they were wrong.
To this day I still put chapter markings on the “wrong” shoulder due to the core of RTB01s in my army. Makes it a bit of a hassle when minis come with pre-sculpted insignia.
Do we know if the blank shoulderpad of the new Mk. VI is removable and suitable for chapter upgrades?
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I have a 3D printer, but I dunno if it's good enough to print a shoulder pad without visible layer lines somewhere.
It's just a matter of dialing your settings correctly, IME. That said, if you print in resin, it will be difficult for the layer lines to be more visible than the seams.
Is that a studded armour thing only? Because the pics I found on FW of sculpted insignia typically show the insignia on the left.
No? The 'advanced reactions' are all a single once-per-battle bit of legion fluff, and a second reaction seems to be part of the Warlord trait (that goes away when the warlord dies).
I always thought that as armour tech improved (or perhaps they found more archeotech/STCs) that the molecular bonding studs became redundant
so newer armour marks (or mixed suits) provide as much or more protection without them, so there's plenty of space for insignia etc (and we know how much 40K armies love insignia)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I always thought that as armour tech improved (or perhaps they found more archeotech/STCs) that the molecular bonding studs became redundant
so newer armour marks (or mixed suits) provide as much or more protection without them, so there's plenty of space for insignia etc (and we know how much 40K armies love insignia)
Not really, bonding studs were used due to reinforce/repair stuff because of lack of supplies of better parts, not due to tech level.
It's basically due to the HH putting a big strain in every side's logistics, more than anything else. After the HH, Corvus armor kept them on the shoulder pad to honor the Eternity Gate defense.
