There's clearly an eye to the future, but GW is being very firm in their marketing and communication about what IS actually coming. Which is sensible as any future "Similar scaled game" is likely at good 5 years off at best from any release. No sense even hinting at that yet from their angle. Esp since 5 years is a long time and the market could change drastically which would affect GW's choices. Everything from total collapse to such good success that t speeds things up to going another direction entirely.
A bit disappointed no mention of Legio Metalica. I'd like to see official layouts for the colors. The pictures of them floating about the internet aren't exactly consistent.
Hopefully someday we will see some Eldar Phantom Titans.
Hopefully someday we will see some Eldar Phantom Titans.
I'm surprised there's no mention of Eldar Titans actually. They were present during the HH and they have the models for the wraithknight, revenant and phantom titan models they just have to adjust scale. Another faction that can be used as allies too.
mikesorensonxx wrote: ...they have the models for the wraithknight, revenant and phantom titan models they just have to adjust scale.
It's more complicated than that. The 40k scale titans were all made by hand, not CAD. They have to build digital models from scratch. That's why it took two years to get the Imperial stuff done.
Mysterio wrote: It's been a while, but...weren't those Chaos Knights just Chaos versions of...Knights?
Weird that we're getting a class between Knights and Warhounds when that's basically what Knights already are, for the most part?
The Hell … units are Knights (although clearly not the same chassis as the Imperial Knights, so we could see "pre-Chaos" versions of what would become those Hell ... Knights), but the Castigator and Questor are definitely scout titans, and smaller than the Warhound.
mikesorensonxx wrote: ...they have the models for the wraithknight, revenant and phantom titan models they just have to adjust scale.
It's more complicated than that. The 40k scale titans were all made by hand, not CAD. They have to build digital models from scratch. That's why it took two years to get the Imperial stuff done.
The Warlord was, IIRC, the first 40k titan model designed using CAD. It's also not just a matter of making the models; they have plenty of other ideas for expanding the Horus Heresy setting with new units. Yes, the Orks and Eldar were present during the Heresy, but they're basically bystanders, and rather irrelevant to the story and theme of the Heresy.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Yes, the Orks and Eldar were present during the Heresy, but they're basically bystanders, and rather irrelevant to the story and theme of the Heresy.
Sure, but it's "Adeptus Titanicus: Horus Heresy", implying the the 30K setting is but the first stop along the line of "Adeptus Titanicus: xxx".
I'd be happy to see Chaos-edition of the existing titans released, followed by the first Xenos machines - Orks and Eldar being the obvious.
changemod wrote: It seems like it would be a really weird decision to invent a bunch of new Titan types wholecloth before introducing a second faction.
Third faction. Or more, since each Legio is its own faction. But it's not that weird if the focus of the game is the Horus Heresy. It's also what they've been saying will happen right from the beginning.
changemod wrote: It seems like it would be a really weird decision to invent a bunch of new Titan types wholecloth before introducing a second faction.
Third faction. Or more, since each Legio is its own faction. But it's not that weird if the focus of the game is the Horus Heresy. It's also what they've been saying will happen right from the beginning.
No, I can assure you it would be a second faction. The only reason there’s a Horus Heresy subtitle is as an excuse to have one faction, as making it loyalist vs chaos in the modern era would require releasing two factions up front.
Unless they -drastically- up the differences in later supplements, even the rules are no more different between legions than the effect of chapter tactics in the marine codex.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Yes, but I think there'll be a lot of Heresy releases before we see any aliens; I think seeing any Orks at all in 2019 will be optimistic.
I think that's massively too optimistic. 2019 will be the releases following from Titan Death, possibly another HH era supplement late in the year, new Titans and Knights, and resin weapons. The new titans will very likely be resin unless they've already started and likely already finished them. SG have just hired a sculptor to put on AT full time, and he'll be starting with Titan weapon kits.
Bear in mind someone worked on the design for the plastic Warlord every day for months to give us that kit (and putting the whole thing in plastic instead of resin delayed release for more than a year), and the Specialist Games team is still less than 15 people across BB, Necro, AT and the other SG projects. For comparison that's the same size as the project team in the main studio for just the Sisters of Battle.
SG has proved they can get the sales, and that's why GW have given them the resources for plastics, but there will still be a lot of resin in the finished range for weapon options, knights and scenery, and the 4+ Imperial Titan classes they're going to bring back from the background and into the game.
I really want Gargants, but to be realistic late 2020 might still be too optimistic.
So don't wait. The community(I like Apologist's version) have already put together Gargant rules in the new style, and Orks are the most bodgeable, convertable faction. Or there are third party options.
I'm sure GW's AT Orks will be lovely, but as you say it'll be years before they get around to it and there's no reason to limit yourself to the "Official[tm]" stuff in the meantime(unless you're posting on a certain FB group... ).
Eldar are a bit harder, but I've already some some quite nice Knight conversions derived from Wraithguard and a couple of folk have said they're working on rules. Nobody seems to be giving the Nids any love rules-wise, but that's only a matter of time and their Biotitans can also be kitbashed from the plastic 40K range with a bit of thought & effort.
changemod wrote: It seems like it would be a really weird decision to invent a bunch of new Titan types wholecloth before introducing a second faction.
We've probably already got a second faction on the way. Right now loyalists and traitors play more or less the same, with the only difference being the specific titan legion that you pick, and which side it's affiliated with. But that might change as we get further into the Heresy, with the traitor titans becoming more and more warped under the influence of Chaos. It's quite possible that we'll have a distinct second faction before we get either Orks or Eldar.
More distinctly Chaos bits will come before Xenos stuff. It's much easier to do some Chaos-ified armour plates and specific weapons than a whole range with multiple plastic kits.
But that's not in Titan Death, so somewhere in 2019 at the earliest for that.
mikesorensonxx wrote: ...they have the models for the wraithknight, revenant and phantom titan models they just have to adjust scale.
It's more complicated than that. The 40k scale titans were all made by hand, not CAD. They have to build digital models from scratch. That's why it took two years to get the Imperial stuff done.
Not quite true. In one of the sculpting interviews he mentioned having 40k scaled models made it easier by taking measurements off of them. Something is always better than nothing, and the design work is done on a 3d model as well. It took 2 years because they only have 1 guy working on the models and just hired 1 more to work on the accessories. There's only a couple guys it seems working on it.
I still don't see why they can't scan and scale down the 40k versions and touch them up. People are doing that on 3d printers to make the other weapons they haven't released yet.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Heck, you could kit bash wraithguard and wraithlords as titans. Nids have tons of options. Orks I'm sure do too, we just need the rules!
Well, it's not just scaling it down. A lot of features don't translate to smaller scales. The design process is a lot more than just sculpting a 3D render. Have to make it fit on a pre-determined set of sprues, everything has to be placed in such a way to optimize the casting process to not get sink marks and whatever. It's a lot of technical work to bring the model into production.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Yes, the Orks and Eldar were present during the Heresy, but they're basically bystanders, and rather irrelevant to the story and theme of the Heresy.
Ah but the Squats were there too! Anyone fancy a Cyclops, Colossus, Leviathan or Land Train?
From what's been shared thus far, several HH supplements - as well as their associated Legios, weapons, Knights, Titans, etc. are in the works before they think about Chaos, much less Xenos.
Which is not to say that I wouldn't dearly love to see AT: Xenos on the shelves tomorrow. However, my guess is that we've got a bit of a wait.
The fact that the wait will involve new weapons, Titan classes, and more dies make it a big easier to stomach
mikesorensonxx wrote: Heck, you could kit bash wraithguard and wraithlords as titans. Nids have tons of options. Orks I'm sure do too, we just need the rules!
FW produced rules ain't gonna happen. The community will have to do the heavy lifting here.
Given it's Specialist Games not FW slating FW seems a bit irrelevant to the discussion.
And SG have been pretty good at producing content for Necro and BB, including more plastics (though AT so far involves the same or slightly more plastic design than Necro so far) so I don't see why you are so negative about it. It won't be an intense release schedule, but they are continuing support.
Ben2 wrote: Given it's Specialist Games not FW slating FW seems a bit irrelevant to the discussion.
And SG have been pretty good at producing content for Necro and BB, including more plastics (though AT so far involves the same or slightly more plastic design than Necro so far) so I don't see why you are so negative about it. It won't be an intense release schedule, but they are continuing support.
I for sure love to see carapace bits, weapons and heads for the chaos titans before
any new titans types.
I still have these little gems of Slaaneshi knights
and titans sleeping in boxes, these were amazing.
Ben2 wrote: Given it's Specialist Games not FW slating FW seems a bit irrelevant to the discussion.
Hmm let's see. GW treats them as one and the same and same guys are working on both. I wonder why people keep using term FW?-) Okay technically incorrect but in practice same thing. Bit like technically IG isn't IG but Astra whatever yet people keep referring them as IG.
changemod wrote: It seems like it would be a really weird decision to invent a bunch of new Titan types wholecloth before introducing a second faction.
Third faction. Or more, since each Legio is its own faction. But it's not that weird if the focus of the game is the Horus Heresy. It's also what they've been saying will happen right from the beginning.
No, I can assure you it would be a second faction. The only reason there’s a Horus Heresy subtitle is as an excuse to have one faction, as making it loyalist vs chaos in the modern era would require releasing two factions up front.
Unless they -drastically- up the differences in later supplements, even the rules are no more different between legions than the effect of chapter tactics in the marine codex.
No, there's multiple factions that happen to use the same units (end not even then; Gryphonicus have two different Reaver variants that no-one else can get).
keep in mind AT came out originally set during the HH, and even in modern times chaos has used the same titan types as loyalists. go look on forge world and you'll see examples of traitor reavers etc
I'm hoping that we get to at least see the weapons sprues soon. I don't want the sprues just because of the additional weapons. I'd also like to know whether the Reaver sprue has additional upper arm pieces included. If the sprue doesn't have extra upper arm pieces (or doesn't have enough for all of the weapons), then you need to magnetize the elbows as well as the shoulders. If there are enough upper arm pieces, then only the shoulders should need to be magnetized if you want to be able to swap your weapons.
schoon wrote: My guess is that at least one of the weapon sprues will be this month's release for AT18.
As nothing was in this month's WD, I think they're going to skip November in favour of the new Shadespire / Blood Bowl / Necromunda stuff. Instead I'd expect to see the weapon sprues in Dec/Jan just before Titandeath.
schoon wrote: My guess is that at least one of the weapon sprues will be this month's release for AT18.
As nothing was in this month's WD, I think they're going to skip November in favour of the new Shadespire / Blood Bowl / Necromunda stuff. Instead I'd expect to see the weapon sprues in Dec/Jan just before Titandeath.
That mean nothing in first half but leaves 2-3 weeks for november where weapons could come without appearing in november wd.
Ben2 wrote: Bear in mind Blackstone Fortress isn't in the November White Dwarf because it releases 23rd.
I've heard weapons sprue for preorder 24th November, but I've got no solid confirmation on that.
23rd? That's friday. GW does releases on saturday so that sounds odd. 24 for black fortress(preorder at 17 so fits for the WD thing perfectly) and weapons on preorder that I could believe.
Problem is the stream made it sound like they aren't coming in soon :-/
Ben2 wrote: Bear in mind Blackstone Fortress isn't in the November White Dwarf because it releases 23rd.
I've heard weapons sprue for preorder 24th November, but I've got no solid confirmation on that.
23rd? That's friday. GW does releases on saturday so that sounds odd. 24 for black fortress(preorder at 17 so fits for the WD thing perfectly) and weapons on preorder that I could believe.
Problem is the stream made it sound like they aren't coming in soon :-/
23rd was said by GW in the ‘preorder next weekend’ article for Blackstone Fortress. It’s Black(stone) Friday.
This is most likely a concession to the US market. For those of you overseas, Thursday the 22nd is a national holiday, Thanksgiving. Friday the 23 is traditionally the biggest Christmas shopping day of the season, as many people are off from work that day also. So the Blackstone release was likely timed so it could be front and center for this.
schoon wrote: My guess is that at least one of the weapon sprues will be this month's release for AT18.
As nothing was in this month's WD, I think they're going to skip November in favour of the new Shadespire / Blood Bowl / Necromunda stuff. Instead I'd expect to see the weapon sprues in Dec/Jan just before Titandeath.
That mean nothing in first half but leaves 2-3 weeks for november where weapons could come without appearing in november wd.
GW have been saving the big releases they don't want leaked via WD for mid-late month. Weapon packs hardly fall into that category. All AT releases so far have been in that month's WD.
reds8n wrote: ...including Legio Solaria (a light Legio, lots of warhounds and reavers) - the good guys - and Legio Vulpa (a heavy Legio) - the bad guys "
Hmmmm. The only thing new I'm seeing in these images (and even then only for the Warlord) is the weapons.
Perhaps these are simply pictures from the fluff section of Titandeath.
CragHack wrote: 23rd would make sense if they would be made in resin and sold by FW... :?
We already know weapon sprues will be in plastic except rare ones. I doubt they start weapoe releases with warp missile
The comment was a reference to the date. The 23rd is on a Friday. GW's releases of late have been on Saturdays.
But the 23rd is also the single shopping day of the year in the US, so having a release on that date makes a certain amount of sense.
And he referred to FW resin and FW does indeed do friday releases. So if they were FW resin 23rd could be indeed possibility. Except weapon sprues we know to be resin.
reds8n wrote: ...including Legio Solaria (a light Legio, lots of warhounds and reavers) - the good guys - and Legio Vulpa (a heavy Legio) - the bad guys "
Hmmmm. The only thing new I'm seeing in these images (and even then only for the Warlord) is the weapons.
Perhaps these are simply pictures from the fluff section of Titandeath.
Or new legio specific rules. What did you expect from 2 legions that use "lots of warhounds and reavers" and one that's heavy legion(so presumably would be lots of warlords and maybe some reavers).
Also, do we know if they're going to make some cosmetic upgrades? Feels like the Lucius-Alpha head features prominently both in the rulebook and now on the new legio art. I would personally much rather have that or even a Mars-Beta head on my Warlord.
I know Andy said during the AT talk on Twitch that there were no plans on doing conversion kits for Lucius pattern titans, but the Warlord heads would make sense since they're current kits that feature in art etc.
There's been no official confirmation, but as Reaver / Warlord heads are on the current weapon sprues it wouldn't surprise me if we saw alternative versions on the other sprues. I left the head for one of each magnetised just in case.
We still don't even have news on the weapon upgrades for the existing Knights & Titans, I doubt we'll see news about new actual-miniatures until the next Weekender in February.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'm debating grabbing some pretty good conversion weapons from online to swap on a warlord, or wait for an official weapon sprue.
Well made conversions never lose their value or coolness. Do it.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'm debating grabbing some pretty good conversion weapons from online to swap on a warlord, or wait for an official weapon sprue.
btw I was thinking how sprues will be and I'm leaning toward idea of 2 sprues for warlord. Both with carapace and 2 guns plus 2nd carapace for one. Alas I suspect gatling blasters+sunfury+claw for one and quake cannon+macro blasters+vulcan mega bolter for one(plus turbo lasers either). I would prefer claw and macro blasters switch place.
Why I think? Well that weapon amount match the standard weapons sprue weapon count so if the sizes are about same can't be much more than that. And I would presume the one they have 40k sized digital files already would be first ones out.
Of course it's possible they sell them in packs of both.
If separate and composition matches I think I need 3 sprues with sunfury and 2-3 of the other(that macro blaster...)
Reaver needs 3 arm weapons and 1 carapace(warp missile is resin add on) so these could actually be on one sprue.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'm debating grabbing some pretty good conversion weapons from online to swap on a warlord, or wait for an official weapon sprue.
Do you have a link for sellers of these?
On a phone, so link issues. seller:timowenschmidt on ebay.
tneva82 wrote: btw I was thinking how sprues will be and I'm leaning toward idea of 2 sprues for warlord. Both with carapace and 2 guns plus 2nd carapace for one. Alas I suspect gatling blasters+sunfury+claw for one and quake cannon+macro blasters+vulcan mega bolter for one(plus turbo lasers either). I would prefer claw and macro blasters switch place.
Why I think? Well that weapon amount match the standard weapons sprue weapon count so if the sizes are about same can't be much more than that. And I would presume the one they have 40k sized digital files already would be first ones out.
Of course it's possible they sell them in packs of both.
If separate and composition matches I think I need 3 sprues with sunfury and 2-3 of the other(that macro blaster...)
Reaver needs 3 arm weapons and 1 carapace(warp missile is resin add on) so these could actually be on one sprue.
Please come soon!
At this point I fully do not give a gak exactly how they choose to do it, I just want them to do it. Mainly so people can start posting 3D printed versions to the AT2018 FB group to spite its ridiculous gatekeeping admins, who insist they can totes tell the difference, but who obviously won't be able to once the "official" ones exist.
mjl7atlas wrote: Any news on knight variants making it to the field soon?
They did some livestream thing for the game where they mentioned a few titan classes off-hand but I don't know if that means they'll actually make it to titanicus. Imperators, psi-titans, scout titans, and some weapon changes like the grapple claw thing the warhounds in Betrayer had. Also more knights is a rumor, which would also be nice. I'd like to be able to run an all-titanicus standing in for space marines army because that sounds like a terrible but fun idea, and thinner/thicker knights would make that a bit easier.
mjl7atlas wrote: Any news on knight variants making it to the field soon?
They did some livestream thing for the game where they mentioned a few titan classes off-hand but I don't know if that means they'll actually make it to titanicus. Imperators, psi-titans, scout titans, and some weapon changes like the grapple claw thing the warhounds in Betrayer had. Also more knights is a rumor, which would also be nice. I'd like to be able to run an all-titanicus standing in for space marines army because that sounds like a terrible but fun idea, and thinner/thicker knights would make that a bit easier.
I'd expect resin cerastus and acastus knights before a second set of plastic ones.
mjl7atlas wrote: Any news on knight variants making it to the field soon?
They did some livestream thing for the game where they mentioned a few titan classes off-hand but I don't know if that means they'll actually make it to titanicus. Imperators, psi-titans, scout titans, and some weapon changes like the grapple claw thing the warhounds in Betrayer had. Also more knights is a rumor, which would also be nice. I'd like to be able to run an all-titanicus standing in for space marines army because that sounds like a terrible but fun idea, and thinner/thicker knights would make that a bit easier.
I'd expect resin cerastus and acastus knights before a second set of plastic ones.
If the alternate weapon frame isn’t available separately, I’ll strongly question why they even put magnet holes in the damn models in the first place.
Ditto. THAT SUCKS! Scalpers are having a field day.
This really put dampers in me. Can't really afford multiple warlords. Would need like 3 at least(2 for my bigger legion, 1 for smaller) and don't even NEED that many. 4 warlords? Sheesh. Way too much. And if this is how they are going to get others...I'm being force fed to end up with like 8 warlords???
If the alternate weapon frame isn’t available separately, I’ll strongly question why they even put magnet holes in the damn models in the first place.
Ditto. THAT SUCKS! Scalpers are having a field day.
This really put dampers in me. Can't really afford multiple warlords. Would need like 3 at least(2 for my bigger legion, 1 for smaller) and don't even NEED that many. 4 warlords? Sheesh. Way too much. And if this is how they are going to get others...I'm being force fed to end up with like 8 warlords???
Well, I did say -if-, there’s no hard confirmation yet.
That said, I bought my Warlord under the understanding of there being weapon packs in the pipeline: I have zero intention of running two gigantic lasers that push my reactor every time they fire.
Luckily I didn't bother to follow the hype and buy the Reaver and Warlord with crappy loadout.
And good job on that knight, they finally made a waving crotch banner. But I wonder what's other option on the sprue, because 2 on the sprue there must be some hefty space left, just not enough for a 3rd one.
If the alternate weapon frame isn’t available separately, I’ll strongly question why they even put magnet holes in the damn models in the first place.
Ditto. THAT SUCKS! Scalpers are having a field day.
This really put dampers in me. Can't really afford multiple warlords. Would need like 3 at least(2 for my bigger legion, 1 for smaller) and don't even NEED that many. 4 warlords? Sheesh. Way too much. And if this is how they are going to get others...I'm being force fed to end up with like 8 warlords???
Well, I did say -if-, there’s no hard confirmation yet.
That said, I bought my Warlord under the understanding of there being weapon packs in the pipeline: I have zero intention of running two gigantic lasers that push my reactor every time they fire.
Problem is that community article mentions no separate sprue...
Basic loadout isn't bad but it's not something you want multiples. Well except carapace which is very good and useful.
Interesting, but as others have said, the fact that the Warlord is a complete kit, not just a weapon sprue is a shame, hopefully they'll release the weapons sprues seperately, either as an online exclusive, or maybe in the future they'll do another Warlord with a different load out and then release a boxed set of the various weapons sprues.
Also interesting that it seems like they managed to fit 2 heads, 2 Plasma guns, the power claw and the two laser blasters (which seem bigger than the missile launchers) onto a single sprue, thought the original sprue was already pretty packed.
Also a shame there are only two scenery tiles, I was hoping they'd have 4 for release as I'm now torn as to whether to get 2 of each to make a 4x4 board and then ending up with spare tiles if they release more in the future (though I guess that adds some variety and the possibily of a 6x4 board), but obviously the tiles aren't cheap!
Suprised that the Knights are apparently plastic, didn't expect that, though I guess the lance would be pretty fragile in resin. Wonder if we'll get resin upgrade parts to make the other FW knight variants with the same basic body, or whether they'll also be plastic kits.
Chopstick wrote: And good job on that knight, they finally made a waving crotch banner. But I wonder what's other option on the sprue, because 2 on the sprue there must be some hefty space left, just not enough for a 3rd one.
The Lancer is quite a lot bigger than the standard GW knight, so 2 on a spue the same size sounds about right, especially as it has a few more options, unlike the original knights which had none.
Picking through the Facebook post, the social media intern was unprepared for the backlash and is giving contradictory answers due to not having the info.
Glad I didn't buy anymore warlords yet then, if they are going to do alternate weapons like this and not a separate sprue set. Will be very irritating if there ends up like 4 different warlord boxes with multiple different weapon options that we want to mix! I suspect they will still do a separate weapon sprue set soon though.
The cerastus look cool. They are specificall said to be Lancers, but it says in the article they come with various arm options so hopefully they can make Acherons and Castigators as well.
GW might be doing warlords like they've done kit releases like the new AdMech VS Necron - a boxed set first and then later they'll release the bits separately. So its a short term pain for people.
Ooh, just realised that the Warlord has the enlarged front carapace plates without the Shields that appears in some of the pictures in the Tempest book, which I assumed was a pre-production version of the model. AFAIK that option hasn't been released for the full size version.
Tavis75 wrote: Ooh, just realised that the Warlord has the enlarged front carapace plates without the Shields that appears in some of the pictures in the Tempest book, which I assumed was a pre-production version of the model. AFAIK that option hasn't been released for the full size version.
I’ll admit that interests me more than sticking a Lucius head onto a mars body.
Tavis75 wrote: Ooh, just realised that the Warlord has the enlarged front carapace plates without the Shields that appears in some of the pictures in the Tempest book, which I assumed was a pre-production version of the model. AFAIK that option hasn't been released for the full size version.
I feel for the poor social media intern of FW Facebook page, this won't be their brightest day unless we see a correction very soon. A new slightly different Warlord is cool and all, but I'd rather have a solid, honest answer to people's questions than "don't worry, more awesome stuff is coming and it's gonna be awesome awesome".
Tavis75 wrote: Interesting, but as others have said, the fact that the Warlord is a complete kit, not just a weapon sprue is a shame, hopefully they'll release the weapons sprues seperately, either as an online exclusive, or maybe in the future they'll do another Warlord with a different load out and then release a boxed set of the various weapons sprues.
Also interesting that it seems like they managed to fit 2 heads, 2 Plasma guns, the power claw and the two laser blasters (which seem bigger than the missile launchers) onto a single sprue, thought the original sprue was already pretty packed.
Also a shame there are only two scenery tiles, I was hoping they'd have 4 for release as I'm now torn as to whether to get 2 of each to make a 4x4 board and then ending up with spare tiles if they release more in the future (though I guess that adds some variety and the possibily of a 6x4 board), but obviously the tiles aren't cheap!
Suprised that the Knights are apparently plastic, didn't expect that, though I guess the lance would be pretty fragile in resin. Wonder if we'll get resin upgrade parts to make the other FW knight variants with the same basic body, or whether they'll also be plastic kits.
But, good to see plenty of release coming!
Gw has fueled expectations itself. No official statement ever, but they have done clearly so. Statements, Rumors... and most important, holes in the existing Warlord Titan, to show us "This models are made for magnets". This is not a shame. It's just tricking consumers in a legally, but morally questionablemorale manner...
I'm hyped for AT again. And once again, I'll be spending my hobby budget for the immediate future on other stuff instead. Come 2019 though I'll have a couple of Warlords, Reavers, and a quartet of Warhounds.
Tavis75 wrote: Interesting, but as others have said, the fact that the Warlord is a complete kit, not just a weapon sprue is a shame, hopefully they'll release the weapons sprues seperately, either as an online exclusive, or maybe in the future they'll do another Warlord with a different load out and then release a boxed set of the various weapons sprues.
Also interesting that it seems like they managed to fit 2 heads, 2 Plasma guns, the power claw and the two laser blasters (which seem bigger than the missile launchers) onto a single sprue, thought the original sprue was already pretty packed.
Also a shame there are only two scenery tiles, I was hoping they'd have 4 for release as I'm now torn as to whether to get 2 of each to make a 4x4 board and then ending up with spare tiles if they release more in the future (though I guess that adds some variety and the possibily of a 6x4 board), but obviously the tiles aren't cheap!
Suprised that the Knights are apparently plastic, didn't expect that, though I guess the lance would be pretty fragile in resin. Wonder if we'll get resin upgrade parts to make the other FW knight variants with the same basic body, or whether they'll also be plastic kits.
But, good to see plenty of release coming!
Gw has fueled expectations itself. No official statement ever, but they have done clearly so. Statements, Rumors... and most important, holes in the existing Warlord Titan, to show us "This models are made for magnets". This is not a shame. It's just tricking consumers in a legally, but morally questionablemorale manner...
So we are still missing quite a lot of weapons for the Warlord. So what's that gonna be, two more variants in two separate boxes to get the gatling blasters and volcano cannons and such?
Vintersorg wrote: So we are still missing quite a lot of weapons for the Warlord. So what's that gonna be, two more variants in two separate boxes to get the gatling blasters and volcano cannons and such?
Volcanos? Those we already have. I guss second box with macro gatling, gatling carapac and turbo laser. All in one sprue was never likely
The new knights are plastic correct? They look awesome but FW resin is just too stupid expensive now.
I love the subtle design changes on the Warlord, the new head variant is my favourite so far and the extra bits on the shoulders are a nice touch as well.
I am still holding out buying any kits as I expect a big bundled deal to come along in the next year or two but I expect that this will become my preferred game system at some point!
Vintersorg wrote: So we are still missing quite a lot of weapons for the Warlord. So what's that gonna be, two more variants in two separate boxes to get the gatling blasters and volcano cannons and such?
We still need the Quake Cannon, Macro Gatler, and all the Carapace weapons, so probably another 2 Warlords at least if they decide to go with this route.
Vintersorg wrote: So we are still missing quite a lot of weapons for the Warlord. So what's that gonna be, two more variants in two separate boxes to get the gatling blasters and volcano cannons and such?
We still need the Quake Cannon, Macro Gatler, and all the Carapace weapons, so probably another 2 Warlords at least if they decide to go with this route.
I'm going to use a local black friday sale to get an epic knight army at 50% off and a two boxes of warhounds because they are my favorite and come with the majority normal weapons
TBD wrote: Is it me or does the board in the top picture look like it is impossible to put down your (bigger) models on most of it's surface in a decent manner
Commander Cain wrote: The new knights are plastic correct? They look awesome but FW resin is just too stupid expensive now.
I love the subtle design changes on the Warlord, the new head variant is my favourite so far and the extra bits on the shoulders are a nice touch as well.
I am still holding out buying any kits as I expect a big bundled deal to come along in the next year or two but I expect that this will become my preferred game system at some point!
Plastic, yes. FW confirmed this on their FB site.
The shoulders look nice, yes. I might buy one at some point to differentiate the chassii a bit, but that is not high on the priority list as much as them getting their gak sorted out. Separate upgrade release or (a very considerate and well-mannered) riot.
Spacious?? You can only put the Reavers and Warlords in the lane in the middle. They look absolutely terrible to me
I'm planning on buying a 4x4 Urbanmatz mat and a big box of the AT buildings to go along with the GM buildings and some non-building terrain I already have. That will be a lot cheaper than four of those FW tiles and a lot more practical Imo.
TBD wrote: Is it me or does the board in the top picture look like it is impossible to put down your (bigger) models on most of it's surface in a decent manner
They're quite spacious:
Spoiler:
Problem is routes accessible are rather fixed. Even roads have places tricky to put. And outside roads warlords are REALLY struggling. Seems like it could hurt replayability to have warlords move on same predetermined routes.
TBD wrote: Spacious?? You can only put the Reavers and Warlords in the lane in the middle. They look absolutely terrible to me
I'm planning on buying a 4x4 Urbanmatz mat and a big box of the AT buildings to go along with the GM buildings and some non-building terrain I already have. That will be a lot cheaper than four of those FW tiles and a lot more practical Imo.
That’s actually intentional, Warlords are meant to have difficulty with positioning.
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Rayvon wrote: To be fair they never promised that weapons would come on a separate sprue by themselves.
I have been brushing up on my CAD and toying with the idea to get a 3D printer for a while, this might be the final push i need.
You know, you’re the second person to say this and I’m not sure it’s actually true.
You know, you’re the second person to say this and I’m not sure it’s actually true.
In the seminar I was in they said that weapon upgrades were coming but it was never stated they would be available as a separate sprue, Everyone has been talking about them for ages though and I would not be surprised if it was mentioned at some point, their communication can be poor at the best of times. I have a feeling they will come separately at a later date.
Rayvon wrote: To be fair they never promised that weapons would come on a separate sprue by themselves.
I have been brushing up on my CAD and toying with the idea to get a 3D printer for a while, this might be the final push i need.
Though if they don't sell separately then those magnet slots are pretty much useless as short of buying full kit and throwing titan itself to garbage bin you don't have spare weapons to utilize magnetic arms
Rayvon wrote: To be fair they never promised that weapons would come on a separate sprue by themselves.
I have been brushing up on my CAD and toying with the idea to get a 3D printer for a while, this might be the final push i need.
Though if they don't sell separately then those magnet slots are pretty much useless as short of buying full kit and throwing titan itself to garbage bin you don't have spare weapons to utilize magnetic arms
Really? I see 4 different arm weapons now (I think). If I have 2 warlords, and 4 weapons, can't I magnetise each weapon and have...some different number of weapon options? Or do I have to have one with fist / plasma, and one with 2 volcanoes (or whatever the original arm guns are).
i was looking forward to replacing my 3D printed weapons with new detailed plastic pieces from an upgrade sprue for my four Warlords. I guess that’s what I get for being an early adopter...
Rayvon wrote: To be fair they never promised that weapons would come on a separate sprue by themselves.
I have been brushing up on my CAD and toying with the idea to get a 3D printer for a while, this might be the final push i need.
Though if they don't sell separately then those magnet slots are pretty much useless as short of buying full kit and throwing titan itself to garbage bin you don't have spare weapons to utilize magnetic arms
Really? I see 4 different arm weapons now (I think). If I have 2 warlords, and 4 weapons, can't I magnetise each weapon and have...some different number of weapon options? Or do I have to have one with fist / plasma, and one with 2 volcanoes (or whatever the original arm guns are).
Those new weapons look like they mount in the same way as the Volcanos, they have the same bicep so they probably have the same magnet slot as well.
Or do I have to have one with fist / plasma, and one with 2 volcanoes (or whatever the original arm guns are).
It should probably be noted that the new Warlord comes with two arm-mounted plasma guns, and a power fist.
Can't say I like the way that this is going. If they don't release a weapons package, then add me to the list of unhappy players. At $110US each, I can't exactly afford to buy new models just to get a new gun I want to use, and I know I'm not alone. If they follow through on this stupid idea, then I foresee a lot of proxied weapons, and third party 3D printed weapons. If they refuse to release a separate weapons pack, then they're just going to shoot themselves in the foot in the long run by losing out on sales as a lot of people can't afford to shell out for that many warlords. The only people I can see who might be willing to go along with this mess are the ones who were already planning on running a Myrmidon maniple.
Or do I have to have one with fist / plasma, and one with 2 volcanoes (or whatever the original arm guns are).
It should probably be noted that the new Warlord comes with two arm-mounted plasma guns, and a power fist.
Can't say I like the way that this is going. If they don't release a weapons package, then add me to the list of unhappy players. At $110US each, I can't exactly afford to buy new models just to get a new gun I want to use, and I know I'm not alone. If they follow through on this stupid idea, then I foresee a lot of proxied weapons, and third party 3D printed weapons. If they refuse to release a separate weapons pack, then they're just going to shoot themselves in the foot in the long run by losing out on sales as a lot of people can't afford to shell out for that many warlords. The only people I can see who might be willing to go along with this mess are the ones who were already planning on running a Myrmidon maniple.
Yep. Hopefully it's some misinformation. I could live with say for a while only this and later separate(I could even buy 1 so that my mortis has 2 warlords as well) but otherwise...Yeah nope. I just declare what weapons each titan has and live with non-WYSIWYG. I don't need 6 warlords per legion!
Here’s the best part: they didn’t design, CAD, and built the molds in the last two months, if this sprue is being cast right now for a release soon it was already done when AT launched. The lead time on plastic injection molds of GW’s quality is longer than that.
Fajita Fan wrote: Here’s the best part: they didn’t design, CAD, and built the molds in the last two months, if this sprue is being cast right now for a release soon it was already done when AT launched. The lead time on plastic injection molds of GW’s quality is longer than that.
Umm yeah that's given. What's so interesting about that though?
Eumerin wrote: Can't say I like the way that this is going. If they don't release a weapons package, then add me to the list of unhappy players. At $110US each, I can't exactly afford to buy new models just to get a new gun I want to use, and I know I'm not alone. If they follow through on this stupid idea, then I foresee a lot of proxied weapons, and third party 3D printed weapons. If they refuse to release a separate weapons pack, then they're just going to shoot themselves in the foot in the long run by losing out on sales as a lot of people can't afford to shell out for that many warlords. The only people I can see who might be willing to go along with this mess are the ones who were already planning on running a Myrmidon maniple.
Well, it's believable that it *could* be handled this way, unfortunately. However, I can also imagine plans changing after they get an inkling of the volume of 3D printing sales that will result from this. AT players are more likely to be vets with disposable incomes, but most won't be buying new Warlords to get a few extra bits.
Well that's extremely disappointing. Firstly, because I should be happy that I'm getting Cerastus Knights which I very much wanted, but instead I'm just annoyed they're holding the Mars Beta head and variant weapon loadouts hostage behind another full-price model purchase that I have no use for. Secondly, because Andy Hoare has really seriously degraded my opinion of him by resorting to weaselly semantics about how he never actually specifically said the words "the upgrade sprues will be sold on their own".
Still, as Eumerin says, they're only hurting themselves, folk will 3D model these and release them to the community now just to spite GW for this.
Yodhrin wrote: Well that's extremely disappointing. Firstly, because I should be happy that I'm getting Cerastus Knights which I very much wanted, but instead I'm just annoyed they're holding the Mars Beta head and variant weapon loadouts hostage behind another full-price model purchase that I have no use for. Secondly, because Andy Hoare has really seriously degraded my opinion of him by resorting to weaselly semantics about how he never actually specifically said the words "the upgrade sprues will be sold on their own".
Still, as Eumerin says, they're only hurting themselves, folk will 3D model these and release them to the community now just to spite GW for this.
Models have been out there based on the full size models since before AT was released once they announced the scale. I actually rather enjoyed tinkering with other weapon models to create my own.
Models have been out there based on the full size models since before AT was released once they announced the scale. I actually rather enjoyed tinkering with other weapon models to create my own.
Looking forward to this myself. Warglaives seem to be a good source for Reavers https://imgur.com/a/pJyMTaI what you finding good for Warlords? Contemptors, Telemon, Redemptor? I imagine the options are pretty much infinite but I'd like to see a few examples before I go buying bits that I don't already have.
Yodhrin wrote: Well that's extremely disappointing. Firstly, because I should be happy that I'm getting Cerastus Knights which I very much wanted, but instead I'm just annoyed they're holding the Mars Beta head and variant weapon loadouts hostage behind another full-price model purchase that I have no use for. Secondly, because Andy Hoare has really seriously degraded my opinion of him by resorting to weaselly semantics about how he never actually specifically said the words "the upgrade sprues will be sold on their own".
Still, as Eumerin says, they're only hurting themselves, folk will 3D model these and release them to the community now just to spite GW for this.
Models have been out there based on the full size models since before AT was released once they announced the scale. I actually rather enjoyed tinkering with other weapon models to create my own.
I've only been able to find carapace laser blasters and the plasma annihilator in the "proper" style, the others I've seen have all been original "counts-as" designs, or in a couple of cases "you have to know a guy" 3D models you have to buy. Hopefully that will now change, and we'll get the heads and aux-shield plates as well.
I didn't expect to see the cerastus knights so soon. They look good too. Luckily I purposely waited and never bought any warlords so I'm not that angry at the moment. I am concerned about the impact this will have on the already small playerbase though. Hopefully the backlash makes them rethink this method of releasing upgrade sprues.
Thargrim wrote: Luckily I purposely waited and never bought any warlords so I'm not that angry at the moment. I am concerned about the impact this will have on the already small playerbase though. Hopefully the backlash makes them rethink this method of releasing upgrade sprues.
Pretty much the case for me (more happy accident tbh, I spent my toy soldier money on different toy soldiers, and I may not even be buying this second round of Warlords - there may actually be a weapon sprue available when I finally do get round to it. It seems to make sense to me that they'll release one eventually).
Rather fear people are over reacting at the moment.
They’ve said there’s a new weapon sprue, being packaged with the Warlord.
But they’ve not said ‘it’ll be out later on it’s own’. Peeps are acting like they’ve said that, and then, I dunno, drop kicked their Hamster out the window, aiming for their Nan.
Consider Speed Freeks, Forgebane and even Deathwatch Overkill. All contain or contained ‘exclusive’ models, which have since seen a formal release on their own.
Thargrim wrote: Luckily I purposely waited and never bought any warlords so I'm not that angry at the moment. I am concerned about the impact this will have on the already small playerbase though. Hopefully the backlash makes them rethink this method of releasing upgrade sprues.
Pretty much the case for me (more happy accident tbh, I spent my toy soldier money on different toy soldiers, and I may not even be buying this second round of Warlords - there may actually be a weapon sprue available when I finally do get round to it. It seems to make sense to me that they'll release one eventually).
Problem is with this release pattern even if they had released all the patterns AT ONCE it wouldn't have helped at all. It would still result in waaaay too many warlords for me to buy. I'm not made out of cash
They’ve said there’s a new weapon sprue, being packaged with the Warlord.
But they’ve not said ‘it’ll be out later on it’s own’. Peeps are acting like they’ve said that, and then, I dunno, drop kicked their Hamster out the window, aiming for their Nan.
Consider Speed Freeks, Forgebane and even Deathwatch Overkill. All contain or contained ‘exclusive’ models, which have since seen a formal release on their own.
We have no word it comes separately anyway. What we do know is it won't be for a while minimum. The uncertainty is not doing anybody here any favours. Even GW. Many people are going to look at 3rd parties to fulfill the weapon purchaces with this. It's been already long wait for weapons and now with months even in best case and that's with zero quarantees it comes on their own. Why wait for months for uncertain result when 3rd parties can do it right now?
They’ve said there’s a new weapon sprue, being packaged with the Warlord.
But they’ve not said ‘it’ll be out later on it’s own’. Peeps are acting like they’ve said that, and then, I dunno, drop kicked their Hamster out the window, aiming for their Nan.
Consider Speed Freeks, Forgebane and even Deathwatch Overkill. All contain or contained ‘exclusive’ models, which have since seen a formal release on their own.
No. But Andy Hoare has been reacting to people annoyed by the present situation with words to the effect of "I never actually said we'd be selling the upgrades separately", which is hardly confidence-building. And actually, peeps are acting like they watched a lot of seminars and marketing streams which all *strongly* suggested there would be separate upgrade sprues, bought expensive models on the basis that in future they would have access to those upgrade sprues, and are now being told if they want the upgrade sprues they have to buy that same expensive model again. Feeling and expressing some irritation at that sequence of events isn't even remotely as unreasonable as you're trying to paint it as.
Consider Speed Freeks, Forgebane and even Deathwatch Overkill. All contain or contained ‘exclusive’ models, which have since seen a formal release on their own.
And when they announce that they're going to release the weapons on their own, then we'll talk. But as others have noted, no one at SG, FW, or GW has ever positively stated that the sprues will be available independently. And even if they are, the pattern that you're laying out will literally involve releasing each weapon as part of a Warlord release *before* they release an add-on weapons sprue. I'm guessing that next month we'll see an announcement of a Reaver with a different weapons load-out. If they were to do an alternating release schedule of a warlord with new weapons, followed by a reaver with new weapons, and only release the weapons sprues separately *after* all of that, then we could be waiting a very, very long time. In the meantime, people will continue to complain about the inability to get the models they need, which is the complaint that has dogged this game since release.
But nobody has said they aren’t doing that, which isn’t the impression you’d get from the early reactions.
Maybe they’re not currently planning it. Maybe they are.
But the reaction I’ve seen ought to persuade!
The reaction is along the lines of, "They'd better hurry up and announce this, or they're going to miss out to people with 3D printers due to stupidity and short-sightedness at their offices."
I have a 3d printer with excellent resolution, might be time for me to 3d design or find online some CAD warlord weapons. Does anyone know of any aside from the carapace laser blasters on shapeways and the knight missile pods from the same place?
Models have been out there based on the full size models since before AT was released once they announced the scale. I actually rather enjoyed tinkering with other weapon models to create my own.
Looking forward to this myself. Warglaives seem to be a good source for Reavers https://imgur.com/a/pJyMTaI what you finding good for Warlords? Contemptors, Telemon, Redemptor? I imagine the options are pretty much infinite but I'd like to see a few examples before I go buying bits that I don't already have.
Look at my gallery for close up pics of my Warlord Gatling and Reaver melta, I used a mix of 3D printed and GW bits for those, especially contempor parts. Reaver Turbolaser was made from a Sentinel exhaust, warp missile was made from an IG hunter killer, and the chainfist is some big chainsaw meant to look like a terminator chainfist. The Reaver volcano is made from a failed 3d printed design (mistakes happen) but I also found plenty of 3D printable designs online like laserblasters, megabolters, and plasmas and then modified them for printing in TinkerCAD, a free online website that’s easy to learn. Many US public library systems all over the country have publicly available 3D printers were you print for a nominal fee, mostly just the weight of the plastic. It can take a few tries to get it right, the blue weapons you see in my gallery were printed too big and I scaled them down later, that’s what you see primed.
I don’t support ripping off game companies by duplicating their work (I don’t print models like marines or tanks that are available to buy) but I started my weapon variants as soon as I got my titans when official weapon options weren’t available. If I’m going to have to buy all new titans to get the official plasma cannons or laserblasters I may as well keep the ones I printed.
ph34r wrote: I have a 3d printer with excellent resolution, might be time for me to 3d design or find online some CAD warlord weapons. Does anyone know of any aside from the carapace laser blasters on shapeways and the knight missile pods from the same place?
There's a plasma annihilator floating about as well, but other than that not yet.
This is a d*** move by GW, and andy hoare's reaction on social media stinks. GW has mislead the consumer and they know it, and are trying to blame us!
Like a wife beater blaming his wife for making him hit her.
Fajita Fan wrote: TinkerCAD, a free online website that’s easy to learn.
I second this. I don't own a 3D printer, and have never attempted to print an object. But I've fiddled a bit with TinkerCAD, and it's quite easy to use. I used it to design a substitute ambidextrous Reaver arm (similar to, but not exactly the same as the arms on the sprue), and it wasn't all that hard to do. Mind you, I haven't actually printed out the arm in question, so there might be issues with the design I made. But problems would likely be easy enough to correct if I were to actually try and use the design I made.
Hmm slightly disappointing, but not totally unexpected. I guess the remaining Warlord and Reaver weapons will get the same treatment. Hopefully the weapon sprue's will become available separately in the future, otherwise mixing and matching is gonna get a bit pricey. Although the silver lining is there will not be a shortage of Titan body's
That said I'll probably be getting this new Warlord kit and price willing a couple of the Knight boxes.
Funny thing i would have preordered 3 at half price of titan instantly. Now not sure will i even bother with 1 or just keep models as is unless they release them separately. Wysiwyg nice, not nice enough to buy like 10 warlords this would end up with(3rd pattern included)
Models have been out there based on the full size models since before AT was released once they announced the scale. I actually rather enjoyed tinkering with other weapon models to create my own.
Looking forward to this myself. Warglaives seem to be a good source for Reavers https://imgur.com/a/pJyMTaI what you finding good for Warlords? Contemptors, Telemon, Redemptor? I imagine the options are pretty much infinite but I'd like to see a few examples before I go buying bits that I don't already have.
Look at my gallery for close up pics of my Warlord Gatling and Reaver melta, I used a mix of 3D printed and GW bits for those, especially contempor parts. Reaver Turbolaser was made from a Sentinel exhaust, warp missile was made from an IG hunter killer, and the chainfist is some big chainsaw meant to look like a terminator chainfist. The Reaver volcano is made from a failed 3d printed design (mistakes happen) but I also found plenty of 3D printable designs online like laserblasters, megabolters, and plasmas and then modified them for printing in TinkerCAD, a free online website that’s easy to learn. Many US public library systems all over the country have publicly available 3D printers were you print for a nominal fee, mostly just the weight of the plastic. It can take a few tries to get it right, the blue weapons you see in my gallery were printed too big and I scaled them down later, that’s what you see primed.
I don’t support ripping off game companies by duplicating their work (I don’t print models like marines or tanks that are available to buy) but I started my weapon variants as soon as I got my titans when official weapon options weren’t available. If I’m going to have to buy all new titans to get the official plasma cannons or laserblasters I may as well keep the ones I printed.
The dual Belicosa plus Apocalypse loadout has grown on me. It's reactor-intensive, sure, but the Warlord has pips to spare and the weapons complement each other really well. Plus those pie plates just wreck Knights.
And that's good because I'm not buying a car to get some shiny new hubcaps.
For anyone interested in ALL KINDS of 3d printed designs that people have uploaded like taco holders, flower pots, keychains, toys, and more you all should check out Makerbot's site thingiverse.com. The designs will print on any printer, not just a Makerbot.
Happy to see new models released, they are gorgeous. Curious to see the price for the knights ...
Much less happy to see a full alternate kit for the warlord and no separate weapons sprue.
I think a better move would have been to release both the full alternate kit and the new weapons' sprue at the same time. That way you would have early adopters (me included) happy not to have to buy a complete kit to have the new weapons, and "new" adopters happy because they have a broader range to choose from.
Hoping for the weapons' sprues to become available as standalone at a later stage (the sooner the better).
Even hoping for the old days to come back when you could actually order bits directly from GW (just dreaming …).
This said, nothing would prevent reselling the carapace and skeleton sprues although I fear it would be difficult to recoup the investment.
Now, for those enjoying conversions, I think keeping the weapons for the already owned AT warlords, converting the skeletons into a daemonic titan or a lighter knight for 40K and
reselling them might be a possibility.
This said, nothing would prevent reselling the carapace and skeleton sprues although I fear it would be difficult to recoup the investment.
Now, for those enjoying conversions, I think keeping the weapons for the already owned AT warlords, converting the skeletons into a daemonic titan or a lighter knight for 40K and
reselling them might be a possibility.
I can't imagine the market for a bare warlord skeleton is going to be worth very much, how much demand is there for that? Bits resellers are going to have a glut of them on the market.
They’ve said there’s a new weapon sprue, being packaged with the Warlord.
But they’ve not said ‘it’ll be out later on it’s own’. Peeps are acting like they’ve said that, and then, I dunno, drop kicked their Hamster out the window, aiming for their Nan.
Consider Speed Freeks, Forgebane and even Deathwatch Overkill. All contain or contained ‘exclusive’ models, which have since seen a formal release on their own.
No. But Andy Hoare has been reacting to people annoyed by the present situation with words to the effect of "I never actually said we'd be selling the upgrades separately", which is hardly confidence-building. And actually, peeps are acting like they watched a lot of seminars and marketing streams which all *strongly* suggested there would be separate upgrade sprues, bought expensive models on the basis that in future they would have access to those upgrade sprues, and are now being told if they want the upgrade sprues they have to buy that same expensive model again. Feeling and expressing some irritation at that sequence of events isn't even remotely as unreasonable as you're trying to paint it as.
Irritation is totally understandable given the weapon points having holes meant for magnets and this sentence from the Warhammer Community site:
"The next consideration was to fit the Warlord Titan onto three frames, divided into body, armour and weapons – which means that, in the future, we can easily produce a new set of weapons, or new armour and heads, anything we might want to add to give the customers more modularity. This feature will be replicated on the Reavers and Warhounds as well, allowing for loads of room to grow down the line." They never said an individual weapon sprue or a la carte options but I hope they didn't expect us to assume we'd have to buy whole different models to get more weapon options.
I always thought they could have thrown players a bone by packaging the Crusader weapon sprue in the Landraider box but those didn't have magnet holes built in and the alternate weapon sprue has been available separately for years. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Upgrade-Pack-Land-Raider-Crusader
There are also loads of 3rd party bits companies, I'm actually kinda surprised we haven't seen a couple of previews for resin AT scale weapons from places like Kromlech or Scibor, maybe this will spur that on.
While they may not be an exact match for the weapons, Dreamforge do have some great looking plastic arms such as gattling guns, fists, and meltas that would be great on a warlord. https://dreamforge-games.com/collections/all
They also have two sizes of walkers that would be great additions to the game. I measured my 15mm one and it is 13cm tall which I think is the same size as a reaver. The 28mm version is taller than a warlord though so might not fit in quite as well.They also look incredible!
It does seem pretty lame...but GW's been doing bizarre and illogical release schedules/methods for a bit lately. Chewing up some of that goodwill they've been garnering.
However...I wouldn't panic since I know the 3D and resin market will jump on this and provide excellent options at better-than-GW costs. Heck, a community like YakTribe will probably pick it all up and create rules for new Titans, Knights and weapon options anyway.
Elbows wrote: It does seem pretty lame...but GW's been doing bizarre and illogical release schedules/methods for a bit lately. Chewing up some of that goodwill they've been garnering.
However...I wouldn't panic since I know the 3D and resin market will jump on this and provide excellent options at better-than-GW costs. Heck, a community like YakTribe will probably pick it all up and create rules for new Titans, Knights and weapon options anyway.
That's the thing. The 3D market is building up so quickly that it's a pretty dumb move on GW's part. I suspect that they haven't even thought about it. Hopefully they reconsider in a hurry.
Well, using the term "weapons upgrades" probably wasn't the best idea the FW guys have ever had. Still, this is the danger of forgetting that rumor mongers generated this and not FW. Sort of like watching the Mandella effect play out and everyone crying foul when reality doesn't match their memory.
I can imagine the opposite scenario though. "GW charged me $110 for a warlord and now they want me to pay another $40 (or whatever) for a couple weapons that should have been included in the first place!"
Breotan wrote: Well, using the term "weapons upgrades" probably wasn't the best idea the FW guys have ever had. Still, this is the danger of forgetting that rumor mongers generated this and not FW. Sort of like watching the Mandella effect play out and everyone crying foul when reality doesn't match their memory.
Folk keep saying stuff like this, but I will happily assert that if you had asked 99% of the people who're now pronouncing on how silly we all were for taking words at face value rather than parsing every potential meaning and then assuming the worst what they expected to be coming up for AT releases, they'd have said "weapon upgrade packs" as well. It's not like people indulged in some ridiculous "pack, packs, the Packers, pecker, woodpeckers, woody woodpecker, cartoons, Loony Toons - Bugs Bunny class Titan confirmed!!!!" free-association, pretty much everybody was anticipating weapon packs and that's down to nobody but FW. Even if we assume for the moment that they always intended to release things in this way, they would have to be literally blind to have missed how their marketing was being interpreted by the community, and even accounting for GW's daft timeline around information they could have firmly nipped this whole issue in the bud three months ago. They chose to do nothing. Andy Hoare, while a member of the bigger FB communities to do with AT until fairly recently, chose to say nothing. Even now, when even the most perfunctory "...and you'll be able to buy these sprues separately Soon(tm)" remark could defuse a substantial chunk of the discontent, they choose to say nothing. Well, they choose to say nothing except vague semantic nitpickery to try and absolve themselves of any responsibility.
So either they're genuinely so obtuse they didn't notice that what they were saying could be taken several ways and that people were taking it the wrong way, or simply don't care how we took it, in which case it's a bit rich for them and the Honour Guard now riding around calling people liars for ascribing one of a couple of possible meanings to words that were actually said by Andy & other SG folks to get uppity about people's irritation, or they knew damn well what was happening and made an entirely cynical business decision to withhold accurate information in the hopes people would buy Warlords they otherwise wouldn't have, in which case I'd say a negative reaction is well deserved.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I can imagine the opposite scenario though. "GW charged me $110 for a warlord and now they want me to pay another $40 (or whatever) for a couple weapons that should have been included in the first place!"
Kind of lose lose.
Except, as above, that's not right. People were expecting weapon upgrade packs. People have been expecting weapon upgrade packs ever since we first found out the contents of the Warlord box and Andy & co started talking on streams and at events about how the kit was magent-ready and more weapons would be coming in plastic. Even the people who didn't like the idea of being sold a "basic model" that they would then have to pay extra to flesh out properly were resigned to that being how things were going to be. The worst actually meeting people's expectations would have resulted in is the normal level of grumbling, the shitstorm is because they managed to exceed the level of bumming everyone was already prepared for.
Not to mention it's just bad for customers regardless of what expectations were and leading to less sales. I went from 1 per warlord(so 3 minimum, potentially 3 more) to 0. Idea of buying total of 10(assuming next sprue is samish) and yet more if 4th sprue comes...yep nope.
People are leaning toward 3rt parties or simply play non wysiwyg.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I can imagine the opposite scenario though. "GW charged me $110 for a warlord and now they want me to pay another $40 (or whatever) for a couple weapons that should have been included in the first place!"
Kind of lose lose.
Better than getting charged 110 just for a couple weapons. Now they've just made everyone that got in early on the game look like an idiot and gave everyone who was on the fence a reason to drop the idea entirely. It's really just a bit "gotcha!" from GW.
I made a post when I was on the fence asking whether they said there were going to be seperate weapons sprues - or in predictable GW fashion, they'd make their customers buy a whole new warlord like they did with the castellan knights. People posted links to the statements that they were going to be seperate. If they were going to pull cheap tricks like this, then they could have just not said anything and I would have held off, seen the BS they're pulling, and dropped the idea entirely.
I've got plenty of money for my hobby, but it's not unlimited and there are things I can get much more mileage out of than minis from a company intent on reaming it's customers with pricing gimmicks. If i can get a OK gaming PC or a good chunk of a 40k army i like, I'll probably get the army. If i can get a tiny bit of the army i like because of GW's price gimmicks, I'll take the PC.
Breotan wrote: Well, using the term "weapons upgrades" probably wasn't the best idea the FW guys have ever had. Still, this is the danger of forgetting that rumor mongers generated this and not FW. Sort of like watching the Mandella effect play out and everyone crying foul when reality doesn't match their memory.
Folk keep saying stuff like this, but I will happily assert that if you had asked 99% of the people who're now pronouncing on how silly we all were for taking words at face value rather than parsing every potential meaning and then assuming the worst what they expected to be coming up for AT releases, they'd have said "weapon upgrade packs" as well.
I, like many people, assumed that weapon packs would eventually be available. The difference is that I knew I was making an ASSUMPTION based on how things went for Necromunda and Blood Bowl, not on statements attributed to FW. Why? Because I hadn't actually read anything from FW on the subject and if they didn't actually say it then can't be reasonably expected for them to do it. Maybe they will have upgrade packs for their titans, maybe they won't. That was my expectation and that is why I only bought the two Warlords that came with the great big box. I can always buy later once I see how things actually play out.
I've been around long enough to know how FW operates, many of us have. Look on FW's web site and you'll see other FW releases have gone either way regarding upgrade/full kit. For example, they released the House Terryn Upgrade Kit which was just some resin add-on bits then released the Questoris Knights which were full kits instead of bits/conversion kits - no upgrade sprues there. FW generally doesn't say things like "upgrade sprues coming soon" unless it's up next for release because the schedule for their resin stuff is truly glacial. Don't expect their definition of "soon" to match your own. Ever.
If you insist on upgrades instead of new models, feel free to look for 3rd party alternatives for your "extra" titans, or print your own if you have a 3d printer available. Eventually stuff will start appearing on places like Shapeways so you can always go to them if you really want. Or convert your own as others have/are doing. Or don't. It's all up to you.
I would caution everyone not to get mad because FW didn't stop the community from formulating and perpetuating inaccurate information. I don't think they've ever done this. Just look at all the 6mm vs. 10mm arguments flying around the forums, they could EASILY put an end to that by actually measuring their stuff, doing the math, and saying "this is the scale", but they don't. Instead of making a purchasing decision based on assumptions about what FW is going to do, approach it with a measure of caution. If FW actually says something then it's all good, pile in. Otherwise, hedge your bets. It's been this way for decades so I'm not really sure why people seem to have lost sight of this.
I think it's also important to note that the only reason why people haven't been rushing en masse to 3D printing as a solution for the missing weapons is because they were holding out for weapons packs. The hassle of designing the weapons was balanced against the cost of exercising a little patience, and spending a few additional dollars (or whatever your local currency is). Most people decided to go the patience route. But if FW is going to change that "few additional dollars" to "$330US to outfit one Warlord titan with the weapons load-out that you want for your Axiom maniple," then an awful lot of people are going to decide that the hassle of 3D printing is suddenly worth it.
- The $330US cost comes from the idea that you'll want to outfit your Warlord with a carapace weapon, and two arm weapons that are from different warlord kits.
Eumerin wrote: I think it's also important to note that the only reason why people haven't been rushing en masse to 3D printing as a solution for the missing weapons is because they were holding out for weapons packs.
I expect many will. Myself, I'm lazy and too poor to buy a SLA/DLP printer at the moment. Unless some amazing stuff pops up on Shapeways quickly, I'll likely grab one or two of the new titan kits. I'm looking to increase the number of Warlords I have anyway so why not?
I think it's also important to note that the only reason why people haven't been rushing en masse to 3D printing as a solution for the missing weapons is because they were holding out for weapons packs. The hassle of designing the weapons was balanced against the cost of exercising a little patience, and spending a few additional dollars (or whatever your local currency is). Most people decided to go the patience route. But if FW is going to change that "few additional dollars" to "$330US to outfit one Warlord titan with the weapons load-out that you want for your Axiom maniple," then an awful lot of people are going to decide that the hassle of 3D printing is suddenly worth it.
- The $330US cost comes from the idea that you'll want to outfit your Warlord with a carapace weapon, and two arm weapons that are from different warlord kits.
Yep. The one that this decision hurts most is sales of the official weapons. Why buy them when you can buy 3rd parties. Or even not buy at all. We have rules in cards. That's the way I'm going to go to.
Chopstick wrote: I guess they might be packing an upgrade kit once they made all of them. But right now they're making it exclusive to the Titan variant box.
Or they just released 2 box, weapon upgrade and new titan variant at the same time. GW doesn't seem to mind about making extra packaging for stuff.
Based on FW's responses 2nd is not going to happen. Best we can hope is 1st or them separate later like warglaives first came in forgebane box and few months later on their own.
Eumerin wrote: I think it's also important to note that the only reason why people haven't been rushing en masse to 3D printing as a solution for the missing weapons is because they were holding out for weapons packs.
I expect many will. Myself, I'm lazy and too poor to buy a SLA/DLP printer at the moment. Unless some amazing stuff pops up on Shapeways quickly, I'll likely grab one or two of the new titan kits. I'm looking to increase the number of Warlords I have anyway so why not?
Anycubic Photon is a great 3d printer for $400, much cheaper than other high resolution printers.
I made a post when I was on the fence asking whether they said there were going to be seperate weapons sprues - or in predictable GW fashion, they'd make their customers buy a whole new warlord like they did with the castellan knights. People posted links to the statements that they were going to be seperate. If they were going to pull cheap tricks like this, then they could have just not said anything and I would have held off, seen the BS they're pulling, and dropped the idea entirely.
I was on the fence as well, waiting to see what was going to happen and how well it was going to take off in my area.
Needless to say, I’m not going to bother for a while now. The biggest thing for me, alongside having a glorious Maniple, was being able to load them out with all kinds of crazy weaponry and just have a laugh playing the game. Don’t get me wrong, the models are fantastic, but, I can’t afford to buy a new Warlord, Warhound or Reaver box each time they release a different option, just so I can further diversify my force in terms of loadouts.
I’m going to give it 6 months and then I’ll revisit everything to see the state of the releases and make a new decision then.
Well. It's not a complete disaster. I was going to get at least one more Warlord, so now it's going to be this new load out, which I will magnetize and have complete flexibility over the weapons.
So Andy "Corporate" Hoare keeps saying that "I was very careful not to say separate weapon upgrades" back in the pre release videos.
Fair enough but the flip side is that they planned this dick move from the start but to avoid tanking release sales he did not have the balls to say "weapon upgrades will cost £90 per loadout"
This is the type of gak that kills game systems, but I guess it's the customers fault because New GW and reasons.
SeanDrake wrote: So Andy "Corporate" Hoare keeps saying that "I was very careful not to say separate weapon upgrades" back in the pre release videos.
Fair enough but the flip side is that they planned this dick move from the start but to avoid tanking release sales he did not have the balls to say "weapon upgrades will cost £90 per loadout"
This is the type of gak that kills game systems, but I guess it's the customers fault because New GW and reasons.
Smoke and Mirrors
Yea, I think subconsciously I thought this might happen as I kept all my new toys sealed !
They really dont help themselves do they, I have spoken to many people this morning that are dropping AT altogether because they are fed up with this gak.
It's a kick in the teeth for all those who jumped on board in a big way and thus bought lots of warlords. Thankfully I'm not in that camp, but I Can certainly see how many people leaped in ready to get upgrade packs and are now looking at having to buy new warlords.
THAT said ebay will likely be a saving grace as split kits might become popular enough to support spare bits; but they might end up like gold-dust. Plus its a hoop people shouldn't have to jump through.
It's a shame and I really hope GW can react to this negative press and review their policy.
They would get away with this for knights, possibly evne reavers, but the Warlords are so expensive and big that people just don't need 20 of the things.
Overread wrote: It's a kick in the teeth for all those who jumped on board in a big way and thus bought lots of warlords. Thankfully I'm not in that camp, but I Can certainly see how many people leaped in ready to get upgrade packs and are now looking at having to buy new warlords.
Nah no more warlords for me. Hell I was actually planning to buy more warlords(long term plan was 3 more) but with this assuming 3 patterns of warlord I would need at least 10 to have enough weapons for me then. Nope. Ain't going to happen. I just play non wysiwyg if I can't find suitable 3rd parties and certainly has made those extra 3 warlords into long term plans.
I was ready to buy 5-6 sprues(scaled down to 3 when it was revealed one had 2 plasmas rather than 1 I thought) but if they don't come separately...Well I'll probably get those new knights and other new chassis but warlord+reaver+warhound wise I'm set. One legion with 2/2/4 and one with 1/2/4. Good enough.
edit: One way to look at it. FW was kind enough to make AT lot cheaper to play. Forget weapon upgrade sprues. If no such things then just play with stock model and use cards to identify weapons. If they don't sell item they obviously won't get money for it.
His Master's Voice wrote: Has there been any communique from GW on the subject of separate upgrade packs or are the last three or so pages all speculation?
As far as I can tell it's speculation mixed with enough salt to pay the salary of a small Roman legion.
What I find interesting to note is that people somehow did not see the Warlord thing coming, especially given how things went down with Imperial Knights a few years back. Which in turn makes me wonder A: what exactly they based their expectations on, B: why they did not dampen said expectations (because let's be honest, it is GW we are talking about here) and C: why they are being so impatient, it's been only a few short months since AT was released after all.
On the other hand, maybe I should be scratching my head about why I'm not railing against GW instead. Yes, maybe my viewpoint is the weird one.
I have no idea about 3D printing annoyingly. I have a mate with one I assume I just send him the files?
Shapeways is silly money £40 for 2 pairs of weapons! Might as well buy a new warlord.
One thing to note, it says "Weapon Sprue" so I imagine the new kit will have the original Volcano Cannons excluded, which is a shame as I would have picked one up to convert them to other weapon types.
I already have 4 warlords so do not "need" any more. Just a crap load of weapons.
His Master's Voice wrote: Has there been any communique from GW on the subject of separate upgrade packs or are the last three or so pages all speculation?
As far as I can tell it's speculation mixed with enough salt to pay the salary of a small Roman legion.
What I find interesting to note is that people somehow did not see the Warlord thing coming, especially given how things went down with Imperial Knights a few years back. Which in turn makes me wonder A: what exactly they based their expectations on, B: why they did not dampen said expectations (because let's be honest, it is GW we are talking about here) and C: why they are being so impatient, it's been only a few short months since AT was released after all.
On the other hand, maybe I should be scratching my head about why I'm not railing against GW instead. Yes, maybe my viewpoint is the weird one.
a) Andy Hoare has dropped in
b) Knights actually have all weapons in box. Not comparable. Bring knights up when you get all the weapons in warlord box like you get with knights. You comparing 2 totally different things. Apples and oranges doesn't even begin to cover the difference.
It was making a big deal about magnets that did it. Magnets matter if there's going to be a way to buy weapons without having to get a duplicate Warlord.
This does seem like it's been badly mishandled. Hopefully GW realise this is a massive own goal or a decent 3rd party steps in to meet demand
a) Andy Hoare has dropped in
b) Knights actually have all weapons in box. Not comparable. Bring knights up when you get all the weapons in warlord box like you get with knights. You comparing 2 totally different things. Apples and oranges doesn't even begin to cover the difference.
Andy actually dropped in? That's neat, didn't know that.
As far as B goes, are you actually telling me that they did not release the Knight Paladin/Errant at first, only to release the Warden/Gallant/Crusader later on with merely an additional weapon sprue and price-tag? Woops, must have remembered that wrong. Sorry, my bad!
Which does bring me to a far more important thing: what do you all reckon the price of that new Warlord kit is going to be? The same as the current one? Or am I looking at more than 85 euros? (Minus whatever I can scrape off of that between the exchange rates and discounts, of course )
Anybody willing to take a stab at guessing the price of those Cerastus Knights as well? Because I am hoping they'll be the same price as the current ones, but we all know what they say about hope.
a) Andy Hoare has dropped in
b) Knights actually have all weapons in box. Not comparable. Bring knights up when you get all the weapons in warlord box like you get with knights. You comparing 2 totally different things. Apples and oranges doesn't even begin to cover the difference.
Andy actually dropped in? That's neat, didn't know that.
As far as B goes, are you actually telling me that they did not release the Knight Paladin/Errant at first, only to release the Warden/Gallant/Crusader later on with merely an additional weapon sprue and price-tag? Woops, must have remembered that wrong. Sorry, my bad!
Which does bring me to a far more important thing: what do you all reckon the price of that new Warlord kit is going to be? The same as the current one? Or am I looking at more than 85 euros? (Minus whatever I can scrape off of that between the exchange rates and discounts, of course )
Anybody willing to take a stab at guessing the price of those Cerastus Knights as well? Because I am hoping they'll be the same price as the current ones, but we all know what they say about hope.
As I said. Compare it again when they sell all weapons in one warlord box rather than pattern per box. For comparison that would be following boxes for knights:
a) paladin
b) errant
c) crusader
d) gallant
e) warrant
f) preceptor
See? How many kits that is? You think warlords going that is same thing as knights now? At least with knights you could wait to get full box and have all options. Now you will need 3 boxes of warlord for 1 complete warlord. WAAAAAAY different.
So, I'll admit I'm thoroughly late to the party, but...
How many weapons packs are there going to be? Is it just one, which comes with all weapons and a warlord or are there going to be different boxes for different builds? Like, if you had the Grand Master box and you bought an extra warlord with the weapons upgrades, would you have enough weapons to outfit all three in different load outs?
Also, is the price going to be the same as the standard warlord, or is there going to be a $30 price increase for the extra sprue or some nonsense like that?
How many weapons packs are there going to be? Is it just one, which comes with all weapons and a warlord or are there going to be different boxes for different builds? Like, if you had the Grand Master box and you bought an extra warlord with the weapons upgrades, would you have enough weapons to outfit all three in different load outs?
Also, is the price going to be the same as the standard warlord, or is there going to be a $30 price increase for the extra sprue or some nonsense like that?
For first this has just some of the weapons. It will still lack gatling blaster carapace, macro gatlling arm weapon, quake cannon arm, turbo laser destructor carapace and vulcan mega bolter array. AT LEAST one more box if not 2 will be coming up.
For last one if it's in addition to others it's def going to be more expensive. Alternatively same price but lacks the standard weapon sprue.
a) Andy Hoare has dropped in
b) Knights actually have all weapons in box. Not comparable. Bring knights up when you get all the weapons in warlord box like you get with knights. You comparing 2 totally different things. Apples and oranges doesn't even begin to cover the difference.
Andy actually dropped in? That's neat, didn't know that.
As far as B goes, are you actually telling me that they did not release the Knight Paladin/Errant at first, only to release the Warden/Gallant/Crusader later on with merely an additional weapon sprue and price-tag? Woops, must have remembered that wrong. Sorry, my bad!
Which does bring me to a far more important thing: what do you all reckon the price of that new Warlord kit is going to be? The same as the current one? Or am I looking at more than 85 euros? (Minus whatever I can scrape off of that between the exchange rates and discounts, of course )
Anybody willing to take a stab at guessing the price of those Cerastus Knights as well? Because I am hoping they'll be the same price as the current ones, but we all know what they say about hope.
As I said. Compare it again when they sell all weapons in one warlord box rather than pattern per box. For comparison that would be following boxes for knights:
a) paladin
b) errant
c) crusader
d) gallant
e) warrant
f) preceptor
See? How many kits that is? You think warlords going that is same thing as knights now? At least with knights you could wait to get full box and have all options. Now you will need 3 boxes of warlord for 1 complete warlord. WAAAAAAY different.
Don't compare apples and oranges.
Yeah but you're talking like you can build all the baneblades (fellblade, Glaive, that megabolter one) from the same kit. It doesn't always work like that, same with loads of their stuff. How many kits are based around the rhino chasis? How many separate purchases do you need to buy to build them all? Loads. Sometimes we get the good (a kit with loads of options - but you pay for the options that you won't be using, so it's not all upside), sometimes we don't. Personally I'm not mad that I can't build a fellblade and a glaive from the same kit. I don't own either, but I like them both, and maybe one day I'll buy a fellblade, and I won't be annoyed that I don't have the glaive gun in there too.
How many weapons packs are there going to be? Is it just one, which comes with all weapons and a warlord or are there going to be different boxes for different builds? Like, if you had the Grand Master box and you bought an extra warlord with the weapons upgrades, would you have enough weapons to outfit all three in different load outs?
Also, is the price going to be the same as the standard warlord, or is there going to be a $30 price increase for the extra sprue or some nonsense like that?
On current evidence, there is not going to be weapon upgrades available. You buy a Warlord and chose whether you want the one that has the sprue for two Volcano Cannons and Apocalypse Missile Launcher or the one that has the sprue for two Sunfury Plasma's, Laser carapace weapons and a power claw. Note that rules exist for the Quake Cannon and Mega Gattling Blaster arm weapons and the Gattling Blaster and Vulcan Mega Bolter carapace weapons so it's entirely possible that we'll end up with 4 seperate Warlords released with different loadouts. Not that you're ever likely to want to run 4 Warlords in a game.
Yeah but you're talking like you can build all the baneblades (fellblade, Glaive, that megabolter one) from the same kit. It doesn't always work like that, same with loads of their stuff. How many kits are based around the rhino chasis? How many separate purchases do you need to buy to build them all? Loads. Sometimes we get the good (a kit with loads of options - but you pay for the options that you won't be using, so it's not all upside), sometimes we don't. Personally I'm not mad that I can't build a fellblade and a glaive from the same kit. I don't own either, but I like them both, and maybe one day I'll buy a fellblade, and I won't be annoyed that I don't have the glaive gun in there too.
Ummm...You can build baneblade so that you can swap between loadouts. Baneblade one game, shadowsword next, then stormlord, doomhammer...And you can do that on knights. Only thing stopping warlords from doing that is there's no weapons because FW decided not to sell the weapon sprues on their own.
This is like selling baneblade kit with only one variants weapons each. But thing is GW doesn't do it like that. They sell ALL variants in one box so with magnets(which warlord kit was pretty much needlessly designed with) you can swap variants. Sure if you want 3 baneblade chassis at once you need 3 models. But again apples and oranges to here. We are talking about inability to have warlord with swappale weapons with one kit. Same ability baneblades has. Same ability knights have. Same ability most of GW models are. Even basic tactical marines are more magnet friendly kit than warlord.
I occasionally wonder why they didn't go with more weapon options. The original AT was fantastic because it had such a range of builds you could try with the six Warlords in the box.
a) Andy Hoare has dropped in
b) Knights actually have all weapons in box. Not comparable. Bring knights up when you get all the weapons in warlord box like you get with knights. You comparing 2 totally different things. Apples and oranges doesn't even begin to cover the difference.
Andy actually dropped in? That's neat, didn't know that.
As far as B goes, are you actually telling me that they did not release the Knight Paladin/Errant at first, only to release the Warden/Gallant/Crusader later on with merely an additional weapon sprue and price-tag? Woops, must have remembered that wrong. Sorry, my bad!
Which does bring me to a far more important thing: what do you all reckon the price of that new Warlord kit is going to be? The same as the current one? Or am I looking at more than 85 euros? (Minus whatever I can scrape off of that between the exchange rates and discounts, of course )
Anybody willing to take a stab at guessing the price of those Cerastus Knights as well? Because I am hoping they'll be the same price as the current ones, but we all know what they say about hope.
As I said. Compare it again when they sell all weapons in one warlord box rather than pattern per box. For comparison that would be following boxes for knights:
a) paladin
b) errant
c) crusader
d) gallant
e) warrant
f) preceptor
See? How many kits that is? You think warlords going that is same thing as knights now? At least with knights you could wait to get full box and have all options. Now you will need 3 boxes of warlord for 1 complete warlord. WAAAAAAY different.
Don't compare apples and oranges.
Yeah but you're talking like you can build all the baneblades (fellblade, Glaive, that megabolter one) from the same kit. It doesn't always work like that, same with loads of their stuff. How many kits are based around the rhino chasis? How many separate purchases do you need to buy to build them all? Loads. Sometimes we get the good (a kit with loads of options - but you pay for the options that you won't be using, so it's not all upside), sometimes we don't. Personally I'm not mad that I can't build a fellblade and a glaive from the same kit. I don't own either, but I like them both, and maybe one day I'll buy a fellblade, and I won't be annoyed that I don't have the glaive gun in there too.
I think your analogy failed when you tried to use Forge World resin kits, when you buy a Fellblade you only want the Fellblade. The point here is that whilst the Questoris Knights had 2 separate releases with the same kit being re-released with an extra sprue, Cruxeh has missed that it was very much an extra sprue added into the box, it did not replace an existing sprue (as is what is happening with the Warlord as the Sunfury/Turbo Laser sprue will replace the Volcano Cannon/Missile Launcher sprue) and that the second release was very much ment to replace the earlier one, in this case both Warlords are very much meant to be sold alongside each other.
I'm sure early adopters of Imperial Knights were a bit annoyed about that as well, but there was over a year between the two releases as opposed to the 5 months between the two Warlords, and when you are running an army of just Knights you kind of want loads of them anyway whereas whilst you can run a Warlord heavy Battlegroup in AT it is very much meant to be the centerpiece running with smaller Warhounds and Reavers.
Nurglitch wrote: I occasionally wonder why they didn't go with more weapon options. The original AT was fantastic because it had such a range of builds you could try with the six Warlords in the box.
Can't get players to buy 3 boxes to get complete titan that way
Yeah but you're talking like you can build all the baneblades (fellblade, Glaive, that megabolter one) from the same kit. It doesn't always work like that, same with loads of their stuff. How many kits are based around the rhino chasis? How many separate purchases do you need to buy to build them all? Loads. Sometimes we get the good (a kit with loads of options - but you pay for the options that you won't be using, so it's not all upside), sometimes we don't. Personally I'm not mad that I can't build a fellblade and a glaive from the same kit. I don't own either, but I like them both, and maybe one day I'll buy a fellblade, and I won't be annoyed that I don't have the glaive gun in there too.
Ummm...You can build baneblade so that you can swap between loadouts. Baneblade one game, shadowsword next, then stormlord, doomhammer...And you can do that on knights. Only thing stopping warlords from doing that is there's no weapons because FW decided not to sell the weapon sprues on their own.
This is like selling baneblade kit with only one variants weapons each. But thing is GW doesn't do it like that. They sell ALL variants in one box so with magnets(which warlord kit was pretty much needlessly designed with) you can swap variants. Sure if you want 3 baneblade chassis at once you need 3 models. But again apples and oranges to here. We are talking about inability to have warlord with swappale weapons with one kit. Same ability baneblades has. Same ability knights have. Same ability most of GW models are. Even basic tactical marines are more magnet friendly kit than warlord.
Yeah I may have misunderstood your point slightly. Point I was making though was that there are plenty of kits where you need to buy a whole kit to get the weapon you want. I see why people are pissed about the Warlord. Personally I'm ambivolent (I haven't invested yet, and when I do, I'm the type that will buy two Knights, and build them with two different loadouts, rather than messing around with magnets, which is also what I'll do with AT Warlords. I don't even game. I just like to build and paint and collect, so magnets aren't really a thing I value). Still, there is the possibility that we'll see Titan weapon sprues at some point (not likely very soon - people seem very annoyed, and they've not said "It's ok, weapon sprues are on the way" - which leads me to beleive that they're a long way off if we do indeed see them eventually).
If the alternate weapon frame isn’t available separately, I’ll strongly question why they even put magnet holes in the damn models in the first place.
It's almost as if the present isn't the future... I would suggest, strongly, that the inclusion of magnet holes in the model, intentionally, means either a bit more patience. Or, of course, you can join those saying the sky is falling because a second warlord was released with different loadout.
I've met Andy Hoare a couple of times, not only is he incredibly laid back and approachable, he's a very decent human being. He's also the only person who's written for 40k in every major incarnation, FFG, GW, BL & FW. He's been with GW since the 90s working in the Golden Age of Andy Chambers, JJ, Fat Bloke, Gav Thorpe etc.
I've not met you, I assume you're a great human being as well, but that comment makes you sound like a proper gak, which I'd hope you're not. So knock it off.
Nurglitch wrote: I occasionally wonder why they didn't go with more weapon options. The original AT was fantastic because it had such a range of builds you could try with the six Warlords in the box.
Can't get players to buy 3 boxes to get complete titan that way
In my experience that sort of thing is just a gift to the bitz sellers, which recently GW has cracked down on by limiting unit options to what they get in the box. The more I think about it, but the more I'd imagine it's a compromise between getting all the different weapons on the frames, and getting all the other content like heads and other body parts.
Regarding the magnet thing, it's probably important to consider that the person who designed the models 18 months ago isn't the marketing person making the packaging and pricing decisions.
I think this is a real misstep for various reasons, but let's see how things sort out. Plans may change if 3D printers and shops in China do a very brisk business while sales of sunfury Warlords underwhelm.
I've met Andy Hoare a couple of times, not only is he incredibly laid back and approachable, he's a very decent human being. He's also the only person who's written for 40k in every major incarnation, FFG, GW, BL & FW. He's been with GW since the 90s working in the Golden Age of Andy Chambers, JJ, Fat Bloke, Gav Thorpe etc.
I've not met you, I assume you're a great human being as well, but that comment makes you sound like a proper gak, which I'd hope you're not. So knock it off.
Someone’s status as a “decent human being” or history is fantastically irrelevant to whether or not they’re currently engaging in the worst kind of weasely corporate semantic games. If Ghandi was working customer service for Apple and tried to spin removing headphone jacks as good customer service, I wouldn’t cut him slack on a stupid statement for unrelated good behaviour.
Companies don’t like to admit fault or apologise, and he’s acting in the capacity of a company representative in this instance.
I may end up printing weapons for all the players at my GW store. I wasn’t going to get into distribution of printed parts because I wanted to support the “new GW” but this move has genuinely pissed me off.
This is a complete fail for GW. WIth the release of AT and the promise of Weapon Sprue's, holes for magnets etc they'd won back a load of veteran players filled with nostalgia and hope this was a turning point. They'd also killed off the 3rd Party kit makers as all the weapons would be available. With this move they've effectively given 3rd Party makers the geen light to start selling weapons by ceating the market for them. No one is going to pay £60 to get a weapon variant.
If this was the route GW were planning, both Warlord variants should have been in the GM Box at the start. Now people have multiple Warlords awaiting the weapon sprue and they do this
SO if you want the missile pack for the Knights, there will be a new box set comming out with the same Knights, but now with a missile pod.
GW is still actively engaged in the “release kit, upgrade it a few months later” - just look at how Armigers/Helverins were done.
It’s a fairly gakky move, but don’t expect GW to change their policies any time soon. I’d be shocked if we see the weapon sprues released as their own thing.
I’m glad I didn’t dive into this too deep, and still have my old AT stuff from the 80’s.
It sucks if you've bought 3+ Warlords with the magnets in place waiting for the weapons to arrive separately. Not so bad if you were waiting for the weapons before picking up those extra Warlords. We've still got resin add-ons coming though, right?
Yeah, what's interesting is that this isn't as big of a deal for the later adopters as the early adopters. I know people who are still on the fence about AT, and if they decide to jump in, they should have a few options for Warlord weapon kits. It's not as good as having all weapons available, but at least they aren't married to volcano cannons.
What I wonder about is the size of the late adopter market vs. the size of the early adopter market. My gut says that a fairly high percentage of the people who will play AT have already bought into AT. At least compared to 40K, etc. Definitely a potential misstep.
The real issue isn't early adaptors but early big adaptors. Those who went out and have bought 4, 5, 6 warlords already are the ones hurt. Those with only one or two are pretty much ok as they now know the status and can continue to expand - its an annoyance but won't likely stop them.
The ones who jumped in the deep end hard will get hurt most by this; thing is if GW had released a weapon pack and a new warlord with weapon pack most of those who already own 6 or more warlords would likely still have continued to buy more warlords.
Thing is those big players might not be many, but they are often the most eager in a club for a game. If you lose them then you lose the person that likely made more casual gamers pick up the game to start with. It's a silly move by GW since in the end it doesn't really help the community, esp when GW themselves put magnetic slots in the mould and hinted very very strongly that expansion weapons were coming; whilst also saying out right that some would be optoinal weapons sold in resin only. They've also done Necromunda with individual hand upgrades on FW. Granted there is some annoyance there in that they repeat weapons between kits, but htey still sold them all as individual weapons. So all the groundwork and expectation was that we'd see a weapon upgrade pack - likely with a warlord + upgrade bundle.
Plus GW made loads of noise about how they designed the sprues to be upgradeable by design - whilst that did suggest they'd release upgraded kits with new warlords with new weapons (and armour segments) there was still a view that we'd see the option to buy the weapon sprue separate as it wasn't part of the core sprue of the model itself.
The other thing is that it is likely going to curtail warlord sales now because people will be waiting for the next warlord weapon upgrade full kit. So instead of getting 2 or 3 of the new warlord they'll get 1 and magnetize it and wait for the next one. So if anything GW is stalling their own sales boom and stealing their own thunder. Plus they could resolve it all with a simple "It's not out yet but wait 2 months and we'll have an upgrade sprue for you at retail." or even "Direct order only weapon sprue"
I'm not sure that most players need more than two Warlords. Most would be fine with one. I won't be running any, or at least not until Ordo Sinister are available.
But yeah, fully agree that people weren't crazy for thinking there would be separate weapon kits.
As someone with only one warlord and intent of buying a second at some point anyhow, this is still an inconvenience because I’d effectively be buying two warlords with the weapons I want for -one-, and if further down the road they release a third warlord variant with another plastic sprue instead of making future weapons resin, I’d have three without enough variant weapons to adequately equip them except as mix and matches of their respective monobuilds.
I’d have been only too happy to buy a second warlord and two weapon packs, then buy another two weapon packs when the third variant came out. As is, I’m not sure what approach I’ll take but it’s certain to make them less money from me.
If I’d bought the grandmaster set I’d be absolutely livid.
My annoyance is that you can't mix and match weapons freely between your warlords now. So if you want them all to have rockets you've got to buy all rocket equipped ones, but then if you want the turbo lasers you have to buy a whole new set of warlords.
I still think we'll see a weapon upgrade sprue sold on its own at some point; GW is just not going to say its coming right now because they want you to buy the Warlord rather than wait; even though its not actually going to work because those who would wait are now more likely to not even buy the warlord.
For me I've only got one Warlord, so I'm fine if i get another for different weapons. But I'm not happy that I can't just upgrade the weapons without buying whole Warlords.
gorgon wrote: I'm not sure that most players need more than two Warlords. Most would be fine with one. I won't be running any, or at least not until Ordo Sinister are available.
But yeah, fully agree that people weren't crazy for thinking there would be separate weapon kits.
The first list I made was 3 Warlords at 1500pts and my second list was 4 at 2000pts. It may not be the best but it fits my legio’s background.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nels1031 wrote: Looks like they listened and the weapon sprues are coming separately, and new Reaver announced, with separate sprue.
Yesterday, you got your first look at the forthcoming Warlord Battle Titan with Plasma Annihilator and Power Claw, bringing even more city-destroying firepower to the battlefields of Adeptus Titanicus. The response on our Forge World Facebook page has been immense, with thousands of you expressing your excitement, and many of you asking whether you’ll be able to get the new weapon options separately.
Well, we’ve heard your voices and, having incanted the litanies of swift delivery, we can confirm the weapon frame from the new Warlord Battle Titan with Plasma Annihilator and Power Claw will be made available separately early in the new year.
Probably they planned it all along and made it look like it was just because of their grace that they granted us that wish. But regardless, we got separate sprues.
...we can confirm the weapon frame from the new Warlord Battle Titan with Plasma Annihilator and Power Claw will be made available separately early in the new year.
Well, there you go - balm for all the sore butts out there.
Vintersorg wrote: Probably they planned it all along and made it look like it was just because of their grace that they granted us that wish.
Sorry if this breaks any minimal content rules, but...LOL I'm thinking about re-reaading this thread from the release pic of the new Warlord onwards, see what the comments look like in retrospect. But not really.
Great news anyway.
I don't care whether this is a swift rethink due to the complaints from people who thought they'd been told it was going to happen based on what GW suggested (but I admit didn't explicitly state)
or if it's an announcement of something that was going to happen anyway but was planned for later
whatever it means those who don't want to make an entire legion can make do with one or two warlords only, and the game will be stronger for it
...we can confirm the weapon frame from the new Warlord Battle Titan with Plasma Annihilator and Power Claw will be made available separately early in the new year.
Well, there you go - balm for all the sore butts out there.
I wonder if there's a version of "have your cake and eat it" that's even stronger in its implication of how supercilious the speaker is being, given that if your immediately following comment that people who feel this was a gimmick(I don't, by the by, just incompetence) are cynics is correct all those "sore butts" are the only reason this is happening at all.
So - you're welcome, enjoy the separate weapon sprue that so many of us registering our dislike of FW's business practices and communication policy has ensured you will have access to.
From the way that article is worded, the messages FW are postng on their Facebook feed and the fact these are coming "SOMETIME" next year I think it's clear the separate weapon packs aren't something they were going to do until the outrage yesterday.
On the plus side at least they are listening to feedback and have had the sense to react this quick to it. Might just save AT from an early grave.
Vintersorg wrote: Probably they planned it all along and made it look like it was just because of their grace that they granted us that wish. But regardless, we got separate sprues.
Well, either they
A. planned it all along
or
B. were responsive to customer feedback.
Either is good. There really isn't a negative here.
...we can confirm the weapon frame from the new Warlord Battle Titan with Plasma Annihilator and Power Claw will be made available separately early in the new year.
Well, there you go - balm for all the sore butts out there.
Yesterday, you got your first look at the forthcoming Warlord Battle Titan with Plasma Annihilator and Power Claw, bringing even more city-destroying firepower to the battlefields of Adeptus Titanicus. The response on our Forge World Facebook page has been immense, with thousands of you expressing your excitement, and many of you asking whether you’ll be able to get the new weapon options separately.
Well, we’ve heard your voices and, having incanted the litanies of swift delivery, we can confirm the weapon frame from the new Warlord Battle Titan with Plasma Annihilator and Power Claw will be made available separately early in the new year.
I don't care whether this is a swift rethink due to the complaints from people who thought they'd been told it was going to happen based on what GW suggested (but I admit didn't explicitly state)
or if it's an announcement of something that was going to happen anyway but was planned for later
I'm guessing the latter. Otherwise we likely would have had simultaneous announcements of weapons packs including the weapons from the original warlord and reaver releases. I'm sure that those will be out eventually. But as it stands right now, if a new player wants to combine a volcano cannon and plasma gun on the same titan, then they'll need to make sure that they get the original warlord, and the weapon pack for the new titan. Better than nothing, but not the optimal way to do things.
Time for one more bit of speculation, though. IIRC, the reaver has three sprues, all of the same size. So I'm guessing that the reaver weapons sprue will sell for either $20US, or $25US. Any guesses on the warlord?
That'd be the carapace weapon, which appears to be a Turbo Laser Destructor. Worth noting is that unlike the arm weapons on the reaver, the carapace weapons can be magnetized without needing to perform surgery.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I don't care whether this is a swift rethink due to the complaints from people who thought they'd been told it was going to happen based on what GW suggested (but I admit didn't explicitly state)...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: On the Reaver sprue, is that the Volcanon Cannon as well, or the bit covered by the shielding for the Melta?
I see the Turbo Laser Destructor in the upper left-hand corner, the housing for the melta in the upper-right, and the barrels for the melta (which are missing from the housing) on the right, just below the center of the sprue.
Hmm... Now all we need to know is if the original weapon sprue would be up separately: Far less important of course, but it does make a difference to my purchasing habits.
If weapon sprues are all up separately, I can buy a sunfury Titan now and the spare apocalypse launchers for it later.
If not, I’m better off waiting for the upgrade sprues and then buying a second belicosa Titan and two upgrade sprues.
changemod wrote: Hmm... Now all we need to know is if the original weapon sprue would be up separately: Far less important of course, but it does make a difference to my purchasing habits.
If weapon sprues are all up separately, I can buy a sunfury Titan now and the spare apocalypse launchers for it later.
If not, I’m better off waiting for the upgrade sprues and then buying a second belicosa Titan and two upgrade sprues.
Fair question actually.
Me, I’ve already got the now ‘original’ Warlord. I didn’t magnetise it, because not only am I quite, quite lazy, but I like that load out for a Warlord that’s the only one of its class in a Maniple. Apocalypse Launchers to help tackle shields, supporting your little guys or just polishing off, then two almighty Boomsticks to hopefully finish the job, or at least inflict heavy damage.
Sunfuries? I’m not massively sold on myself. Still holding on for the Quake Cannons and other useful ‘messing with my opponents positioning’ guns. They just seem more fun to me
Someone at FW woke up today and realised they needed to make a Command Check, successfully rolling a 3+ for Emergency PR Repairs.
This is great news, I only have the 1 Warlord and at present have no real desire to buy another, so separat upgrade sprues were a must. The alternate heads for both the Warlord and Reaver look great as well.
Vintersorg wrote: Probably they planned it all along and made it look like it was just because of their grace that they granted us that wish. But regardless, we got separate sprues.
Well, either they
A. planned it all along
or
B. were responsive to customer feedback.
Either is good. There really isn't a negative here.
Honestly right now I'd say its a second Golden Age, or at least well on the way to one.
Great respect for GW to react to this player feedback; its not free for them to change product ideas and release new things and the like, but seeing them react to customer feedback is great. PLUS the bigger news for us is that they saw such a big reaction that they've made this change for AT which suggests its got a very healthy global market and fanbase supporting it as a game. Great stuff for its continued support and expansion of content.
changemod wrote: Hmm... Now all we need to know is if the original weapon sprue would be up separately: Far less important of course, but it does make a difference to my purchasing habits.
If weapon sprues are all up separately, I can buy a sunfury Titan now and the spare apocalypse launchers for it later.
If not, I’m better off waiting for the upgrade sprues and then buying a second belicosa Titan and two upgrade sprues.
I can't imagine that they won't have the upgrade sprue out eventually. The question is how long it will take. I wouldn't be surprised if the original weapons sprue is not currently being made, which would mean that you would need to wait until they restarted production on it again. Though obviously that's a guess on my part.
Presumably we'll get a warlord kit with a new weapons load-out every 2-3 months, and the associated weapons sprue for the new weapons.
Now that we’re praising GW does anyone want to guess what this little wonder will cost? It’s 1/3 of a $110 model so I’m assuming it’ll be in the neighborhood of $35. I’m not sure what that is in European funny money.
My guess is £30-40; which is insane prices and thus I should be happy when they announce the real price (and if I'm right then I've already spent all that price shock emotion right now rather than later)
zedmeister wrote: What seems to have been missed in all the racket is this throw away line:
Wait, did we just announce a Reaver Battle Titan? Huh. Guess we did
Thoughts? Reaver variant perhaps?
Isn't it just the Reaver they pictured - the one with the new weapons and variant head?
Princeps of burgeoning Titan maniples will be pleased to know the same is also true of the weapon frame from the yet-to-be-announced Reaver Battle Titan with Melta Cannon and Chainfist – perfect for those of us who like to magnetise weapon fittings for optimum versatility.
Yes, I believe it is!
So no, not a new variant, just a new weapon loadout and swanky new head.
zedmeister wrote: What seems to have been missed in all the racket is this throw away line:
Wait, did we just announce a Reaver Battle Titan? Huh. Guess we did
Thoughts? Reaver variant perhaps?
TBH I don't see different weapon loadouts / armour plates as "New titans", or even variants. IMO we have Warhounds, Reavers, Warlords, and Imperators. A "New" Titan has to be called something other than one of these four (Knights are different, to me a new pattern is something to be excited about, even though it is still technically a "Knight"). So a "New" Reaver variant is basically just a Reaver titan IMO, nothing very noteworthy.
It’s really nice that GW are listening these days.
What would be even nicer is if some of the “fans” could learn how to ask for things without hurling insults and generally being rude about it.
I mean all, literally all of the GW employees I’ve met have been lovely, friendly people genuinely trying to do the best job they can. I think we owe it to them to play nicely and ask politely.
What would be even nicer is if some of the “fans” could learn how to ask for things without hurling insults and generally being rude about it.
I mean all, literally all of the GW employees I’ve met have been lovely, friendly people genuinely trying to do the best job they can. I think we owe it to them to play nicely and ask politely.
Direct customer service has always been highly ranked with GW. Their customer support is very well setup and always has been. All through even the finecast era the customer support side of GW (at least in the UK) has always been top rate. It was the management communication and support that was lacking for many years, but they've turned tables on that totally.
Heck don't forget in the past when leaks happened the old GW was likely to send lawyer letters and DMCA takedowns; last time we got a sprue leak GW released a spoiler video in under a day's worth of work (and the fact it went live online in the late evening suggests staff got overtime to work on it or had flexi-time to do it). Of course I'm sure someone somewhere in the chain got in trouble for it, but they reacted in a way that bolstered their marketing and community interaction.
Regarding the cost of a weapon sprue, I would guess something around £20 - 25.
That is based on the current cost of the original warlord at £65. The box content is 3 sprues + 1 base + 1 small transfer sheet. A similar sized base is sold for £3, FW transfer sheets are at £16 for an A4, hence assuming £5 for the warlord one. Assuming each sprue is valued the same, that would give £19 per sprue as a minimum. Expecting a premium to be added to it, especially in view of the potential demand implied by the community's response to yesterday's announcement.
I personally would be quite happy to see £20 (or lower … dreams are allowed).
cole1114 wrote: The funniest thing is there's no way the weapon sprues weren't already planned, with them being announced just a day after.
The weapon sprue existence was a given, them being packaged separately “a few months later” is quite believable - designing a single packaging box is a lot quicker than designing a whole new sprue. GW is prone to “doh” moments like these, the big thing is in the past they’d just trundle along like nothing happened, rather than actually try to fix the issue. This is one of those few cases I actually believe that GW realized they made a screw up, and in a roundabout way, are scrambling to try to fix it, but kinda coming across as if they planned it all along.
If GW had released the modified Warlord, then two weeks later put the weapon sprue up separately, then I would believe it was planned.
This actually strikes me as similar to what happened with Shadow War: Armageddon, where the popularity was so much greater than they anticipated they ended up releasing the separate rulebook - with the PDF content enclosed; that was not originally their plan, as I recall.
cole1114 wrote: The funniest thing is there's no way the weapon sprues weren't already planned, with them being announced just a day after.
They did say this was explicitly not the case however.
And I don't believe them. They had those sprue pictures and article ready way too fast.
Not really. GW has their own Photography studio setup so getting a photo of a sprue is really quick for them. Plus they already designed the sprues to work independent of each other so that, for casting, they can just cast up loads of core parts as needed and put them into different complete kits. So the weapon sprue was always going to be its own separate casting.
The rest of the article is a few lines of text. Very easy to do in a day. Chances are the longer part was discussing and reacting to the feedback, working out if they could do this financially and how they plan to release them; then agreeing to the delivery format and such. Actually writing it out and getting the photo was likely the quickest part.
Plus don't forget the release is very soon so chances are they already have or started work on the sprue photos for the product page anyway.
cole1114 wrote: The funniest thing is there's no way the weapon sprues weren't already planned, with them being announced just a day after.
They did say this was explicitly not the case however.
And I don't believe them. They had those sprue pictures and article ready way too fast.
They likely already had the sprue picture ready. The warlord titan already in the store has a picture of each of the individual sprues that come in the box, and there's no reason to believe that the new weapon sprue (which is the only thing different about the new titan) hadn't already had its picture taken for use on the store page with the new titan box. The article would have taken less than an hour to write. Throw in the probably already existing pictures of the new reaver and the new weapons sprue for the new reaver (which exists for the same reason that the warlord weapon sprue would already exist), and you've got today's post.
I'm not sure why you would think that a twenty-four hour turnaround on that announcement would be "way too fast."
cole1114 wrote: The funniest thing is there's no way the weapon sprues weren't already planned, with them being announced just a day after.
They did say this was explicitly not the case however.
And I don't believe them. They had those sprue pictures and article ready way too fast.
Yuh-huh, sure, what really happened is that GW purposefully released a preview article that didn't mention them, had their FB comms people pretend to have no information, have Andy Hoare make specific comments about never having promised separate sprues, wait a full day as a full scale backlash went on, and then released a pre-prepared article about something they were already intending to do.
All in order to...
Yeah that's where it breaks down a little. What's the goal here, to get people to buy the sprues? We were already going to, that's why there was a backlash. To get people to think their marketing and comms have improved? Until yesterday most folk already did. At best, executing their Very Smart Master Plan has left them exactly where they were before the initial announcement, with a community of generally satisfied if impatient people willing to buy the product. Realistically, it's left them roughly where they started but looking a bit daft, and with big chunks of their community who were previously unaware now very much aware that 3D printing is a thing that can look pretty damn good(there were a lot of comments about it both on their page and on AT fan pages).
As to the sprue pics - you mean, the sprue pics of the sprue that's going to be included in the upcoming nuWarlord box that they'd likely already taken for that box's webstore page anyway?
But sure, whatever, GW are master manipulators and the community reaction was totally futile
Sprue sales were always planned. The Titans were built with the design intention of magnetizing loadouts. Add-on sales from sprues of weapons/heads/legio armor plates etc makes absolute sense.
Was was not planned, I strongly suspect, was the negative backlash from the sale of the Warlord with new weapons and the immediate panic that this meant no sprues were going to be made available.
So when the FWFB page said 'we're doing this because of feedback', they mean the community page response and reassurance that yes, sprues will be available was a direct response to that, to soothe the nerves of those in full panic mode.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Sprue sales were always planned. The Titans were built with the design intention of magnetizing loadouts. Add-on sales from sprues of weapons/heads/legio armor plates etc makes absolute sense.
Was was not planned, I strongly suspect, was the negative backlash from the sale of the Warlord with new weapons and the immediate panic that this meant no sprues were going to be made available.
So when the FWFB page said 'we're doing this because of feedback', they mean the community page response and reassurance that yes, sprues will be available was a direct response to that, to soothe the nerves of those in full panic mode.
This. They were always planning to sell the upgrade sprue and just didn't announce it at the same time as the warlord with the weapons. They didn't expect the backlash so they announced the upgrade a bit sooner than they thought they'd need to.
In any case, the community's response probably provided them some information about how the potential demand for individual weapons' sprues might look like.
I'm happy they communicated quickly and provided us with pictures of the sprues. I think these pictures allow to answer some questions people (me included) had with regards to how best to magnetize the warlord's weapons.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Sprue sales were always planned. The Titans were built with the design intention of magnetizing loadouts. Add-on sales from sprues of weapons/heads/legio armor plates etc makes absolute sense.
Was was not planned, I strongly suspect, was the negative backlash from the sale of the Warlord with new weapons and the immediate panic that this meant no sprues were going to be made available.
So when the FWFB page said 'we're doing this because of feedback', they mean the community page response and reassurance that yes, sprues will be available was a direct response to that, to soothe the nerves of those in full panic mode.
I think GW themselves have forgotten that they don't have a good track record of being consumer friendly. Hell even today their products are generally overpriced and lack the customisability of the past. It's not a stretch to imagine they would pull some kind of asinine stunt like selling new weapons only inside complete kits. They may be generating some good will by re-releasing old games and listening to customer feedback (although they are spending a lot of that, imo, by gaking all over Warhammer and 40k), but they have a hell of a way to go before people will stop automatically assuming the worst of them.
So when the FWFB page said 'we're doing this because of feedback', they mean the community page response and reassurance that yes, sprues will be available was a direct response to that, to soothe the nerves of those in full panic mode.
Gonna disagree here.
Yes, the weapons are magnetized. But that means that if you have one of the old titans, and get one of the new titans, then you could give both titans a plasma cannon on one arm, and a volcano cannon on the other. Or, if you just have the new titan, you can presumably swap the power claw in to replace one of the plasma cannons.
IMO, if they had planned from the start to release a weapons upgrade package right away, then we'd have also seen an announcement about a sprue with the carapace missile launchers and volcano cannons. The fact that we haven't suggests to me that this is a spur of the moment thing. They looked at the production lines and the run that they had planned for the new warlord kit, and determined that they could run an extra bunch of the new weapons sprue. I figure that there's no announcement yet about the old weapons sprue because they'd need to start up a new production line right away in order to get that done, and the schedule won't accommodate that at this time.
If the separate sprues were always the plan then yesterday when the fanbase started nerd raging the response we would of gotten would have been " don't worry guys there coming, look out for an announcement soon".
instead we got a bunch of GW employees go on the defensive saying "but we never said we would release weapon packs, you've got the wrong end of the stick, that's not our fault".
Todays warhammer community article is PR damage limitation, the decision to sell seprate weapon packs has been made in the last 24 hours.
So looking to the future there is probably one more set of weapon options for both the Reaver and Warlord to come, and then(assuming they don't change there mind about the Imperator)we are in uncharted waters as far as Titans go?
The Knights OTH look like they have plenty of existing patterns to keep them in releases for a while yet. Although I do wonder if each of the Cerastus types will get there own kit, or if they will be FW addons to the Lancer.
I recall a while back someone spoke openly that they were working on the psychic titan warlord frame so there is that to come at some stage. After that there's a fair few Knight scale patterns they can work on and a few bigger than knight smaller than reaver titans.
Plus most people fully expect them to branch off into Chaos titans; likely starting with alternative armour options on the Warlord; and then steadily getting more demonic and warped sculpts.
That said as its a titan game they might dip into areas of the lore and pull out more rare and lost to time titans and knights and the like.
Imperator I think could happen one day but its a long way off (I REALLY want to see one though - Imperator was one of the first models I ever got and built)
GoatboyBeta wrote: So looking to the future there is probably one more set of weapon options for both the Reaver and Warlord to come, and then(assuming they don't change there mind about the Imperator)we are in uncharted waters as far as Titans go?
The Knights OTH look like they have plenty of existing patterns to keep them in releases for a while yet. Although I do wonder if each of the Cerastus types will get there own kit, or if they will be FW addons to the Lancer.
The carapace turbolasers for the reaver are a new design. The rest of the weapons already exist for the 28mm models. But now any further warlord arms or carapace guns are going to be new designs.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Sprue sales were always planned. The Titans were built with the design intention of magnetizing loadouts. Add-on sales from sprues of weapons/heads/legio armor plates etc makes absolute sense.
Was was not planned, I strongly suspect, was the negative backlash from the sale of the Warlord with new weapons and the immediate panic that this meant no sprues were going to be made available.
So when the FWFB page said 'we're doing this because of feedback', they mean the community page response and reassurance that yes, sprues will be available was a direct response to that, to soothe the nerves of those in full panic mode.
So, once again - why did Andy Hoare intentionally go out onto FB during the backlash and specifically say in reply to someone using this exact argument that they intentionally never promised separate sprues? Not that they never promised them right away. Not that they never promised not to release them in a box with a Titan. That he was careful specifically not to say they'd be available separately?
Honestly it's genuinely a little bit sad to see some folk going full Info Wars out of desperation to maintain that the community's response was unjustified. I suppose that's the only recourse left when the response is too overwhelmingly one-sided to paint it as a disgruntled minority.
He should have said they always planned to release the sprues separately after a splash release as a new Warlord variant. By saying this was in direct response to customer feedback they sorta opened the door for this to happen again with future release decisions. I seriously hope they use this as a lesson for how they announce or plan products in the future.
I suspect there were already people within FW who thought it’d be a good idea to release the sprue separately, and they were losing the argument until the community backlash backed them up. Now they’ve given themselves 2-3 months to create new packaging for a sprue that already exists, probably less than their standard process but still reasonable.
I’m happy. Though honestly, I would have tolerated something like, “After we release three more Warlord variants, we’ll sell their weapon sprues together in a box.” It should take two more sprues to fit the Warlord’s remaining weapons. (The Reaver’s another story - it’ll be missing two carapace weapons once the new one comes out, not enough to justify a new sprue.)
I don’t think they need to worry that they’re training us to get angry; there’ve been other times when we were pretty unanimously angry and nothing happened (e.g. the FW regional pricing adventure, which we know some employees were arguing against). And more importantly, it usually isn’t unanimous.
They don't even need packaging for it. They can release the sprue as direct order only and ship it in a white bag like they do for things like the Necromunda weapons from FW or any of the "white box" items from GW direct.
Overread wrote: They don't even need packaging for it. They can release the sprue as direct order only and ship it in a white bag like they do for things like the Necromunda weapons from FW or any of the "white box" items from GW direct.
Ideally they'll package it for in-store sales. It'll make retailers happy with them, and less likely to turn to non-mail order solutions, such as local individuals with a 3D printer.
Overread wrote: I recall a while back someone spoke openly that they were working on the psychic titan warlord frame so there is that to come at some stage. After that there's a fair few Knight scale patterns they can work on and a few bigger than knight smaller than reaver titans.
Plus most people fully expect them to branch off into Chaos titans; likely starting with alternative armour options on the Warlord; and then steadily getting more demonic and warped sculpts.
That said as its a titan game they might dip into areas of the lore and pull out more rare and lost to time titans and knights and the like.
Imperator I think could happen one day but its a long way off (I REALLY want to see one though - Imperator was one of the first models I ever got and built)
I think any real work being done on the Psi Titan will be regarding it's rules, psychic powers aren't a thing at the moment in AT. Physically the only difference is the left arm cannon, which is a unique weapon to the Psi Titan.
I think the timing of the imperator Titan will be very hard to predict, because we have no way of knowing how much backburner work and feasibility studies have been done on it, in either scale. In some ways a 40k scale imperator is ludicrous, but on the other hand the company know that the Warlord was profitable, if there is a market for an imperator they could Impose a huge price ticket on it, and it would certainly hit the cool factor a lot of designers would love to have under their belt. A Titanicus scale one is much more feasible and practical, and they’ll likely have at least fielded the idea and done a little concept work by now.
Plus, from some artwork we know they’ve at least decided what a modern imperator looks like.
Should we expect it soon? Not really, no. Can we accurately predict how much they’ve looked into the idea? Probably not.
I’m not sure from what I’ve seen of the game how well it would fit in from a gameplay perspective... But as a display piece I imagine it’d fly off shelves.
I wish they’d do a few Admech guys as scenery. Tech priests to stand on a warlord’s balcony perhaps. maybe some secutarii for basing purposes. Just anyone who’d fit in thematically and give a sense of scale by comparison.
Though yes, if they did epic figures they’d probably prioritise marines instead.
changemod wrote: I think the timing of the imperator Titan will be very hard to predict, because we have no way of knowing how much backburner work and feasibility studies have been done on it, in either scale. In some ways a 40k scale imperator is ludicrous, but on the other hand the company know that the Warlord was profitable, if there is a market for an imperator they could Impose a huge price ticket on it, and it would certainly hit the cool factor a lot of designers would love to have under their belt. A Titanicus scale one is much more feasible and practical, and they’ll likely have at least fielded the idea and done a little concept work by now.
Plus, from some artwork we know they’ve at least decided what a modern imperator looks like.
Should we expect it soon? Not really, no. Can we accurately predict how much they’ve looked into the idea? Probably not.
I’m not sure from what I’ve seen of the game how well it would fit in from a gameplay perspective... But as a display piece I imagine it’d fly off shelves.
I wish they’d do a few Admech guys as scenery. Tech priests to stand on a warlord’s balcony perhaps. maybe some secutarii for basing purposes. Just anyone who’d fit in thematically and give a sense of scale by comparison.
Though yes, if they did epic figures they’d probably prioritise marines instead.
Do you mean this? https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b0/29/9f/b0299fc7e6855e794141fe64b3b1e946.jpg I'm hoping for some further refinement if so. All the other classes have significantly changed since the Titan Legions. This Imperator looks pretty much the same as that old ass one (which I loved, but want to see an update).
I must be the only person in the world who thinks the Imperator is a terrible model. I don't think it ever looked good, and the years haven't done it any favors. :(
I'd rather see a dozen different knight variants any day of the week.
Back in the day the Imperitor was amazing. But like the old plastic Warlord it has not aged well. Unfortunately its not had the chance for a full makeover like the rest of the Imperial machines so recent artwork has stuck with a tweaked version of the old design. While its certainly possible for GW or FW to make a Titanicus scaled version(I'd guess in size it would be somewhere between the 40k models for Dominus and Cerastus class Knights),I'm not going to hold my breath.
Personally I'm much more interested in the talk of new types of Titans. Not being constrained to reimagining old designs, GW/FW have a lot more freedom to be creative in both the models and there rules.
I'd rather get lucius versions of models before getting an imperator. I vastly prefer lucius titans to mars ones, the boxier look is just... satisfying.
MajorWesJanson wrote: The carapace turbolasers for the reaver are a new design. The rest of the weapons already exist for the 28mm models. But now any further warlord arms or carapace guns are going to be new designs.
The AT Reaver Volcano cannon is actually a new design, a 28mm version exists but it is different to the version on the new Reaver sprue, which has more in common with the Warlord Volcano cannon.
Wondering now when we're going to see these things released, obviously the weapon sprue and Reaver probably won't be until after Christmas, but they suggested that the Knights, Warlord and scenery would be out this month which suggests a pre-order for all of it this weekend (or possibly next weekend even though that technically means it wont be out till next month).
Planning on picking up a couple of pairs of Knights and some of the scenery tiles (can't decide whether to get two for now and hope for some other variants soon or go for four so I can do a full battlefirled straight away, and paint them all at one for consistency, my choice may depend on if they bundle as a 2-pack or 4-pack with a discount), may also get a full Warlord so I can get a few of the weapon variants now.
Also, it's not mentioned in the article but I assume there will also be command terminals for the knights released as they won't be much use without them, but strange that that isn't mentioned.
I like they they have done the reaver volcano cannon different from the 40k version. It looks much more similar to and in keeping with the look of the turbolasers, laser destructors and the Warlord volcano cannon.
angryboy2k wrote: I must be the only person in the world who thinks the Imperator is a terrible model. I don't think it ever looked good, and the years haven't done it any favors. :(
I'd rather see a dozen different knight variants any day of the week.
You're not the only one, I hate the look of the Imperitor and am rather glad they've said they have no intention of making one.
So I bought a Reaver a while back to paid with an Epic Armageddon force, since the scaling issues weren't really half as bad as anyone previously thought, but rather than use the included oval base, I mounted it to an 80mm round base. Would this be an issue if I decided I wanted to jump in to playing actual Adeptus Titanicus?
LOL, very accurate. Very glad they came to their senses, or at the very least clarified it for us if that was the plan all along. The difference in reaction was like night and day in another community I'm part of. People who were on the fence about this game lost any interest they had this Monday. And then when yesterday's announcement came, and they made it clear that the weapon sprues would come out separately, 2 people went from uninterested to actually taking the plunge.
Also, what pattern is that second Warlord head on the new sprue? Not the Mars-Beta (btw, love that they made it) but the other one. And the Reaver looks mean as hell. Very excited for this.
angryboy2k wrote: I must be the only person in the world who thinks the Imperator is a terrible model. I don't think it ever looked good, and the years haven't done it any favors. :(
I'd rather see a dozen different knight variants any day of the week.
You're not the only one, I hate the look of the Imperitor and am rather glad they've said they have no intention of making one.
Was it not mentioned on that "maybe we'll make a" wishlist? Where they said a new titan between knight/warhound, one between warhound/reaver, and they basically went all the way up the scale to Imperator? i really don't see why the hell they wouldn't make an Imperator. Locistically, comercially, gamewise, lorewise, no problems at all fitting an Imperator into AT at some point.
ekwatts wrote: So I bought a Reaver a while back to paid with an Epic Armageddon force, since the scaling issues weren't really half as bad as anyone previously thought, but rather than use the included oval base, I mounted it to an 80mm round base. Would this be an issue if I decided I wanted to jump in to playing actual Adeptus Titanicus?
Eh, not really. If your friends aren't too rigid, just go with that as is (the Reaver doesn't need a fire corridor and the templates just show how a 90 degree angle fits on an oval) or if the size becomes a rules issue, just have a paper cutout with you and hover the proper size over the Reaver to clarify.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Back in the day the Imperitor was amazing. But like the old plastic Warlord it has not aged well. Unfortunately its not had the chance for a full makeover like the rest of the Imperial machines so recent artwork has stuck with a tweaked version of the old design. While its certainly possible for GW or FW to make a Titanicus scaled version(I'd guess in size it would be somewhere between the 40k models for Dominus and Cerastus class Knights),I'm not going to hold my breath.
Personally I'm much more interested in the talk of new types of Titans. Not being constrained to reimagining old designs, GW/FW have a lot more freedom to be creative in both the models and there rules.
GW or FW will eventually make an AT/New-Epic Imperator - it may take a while, and it may be after they (hopefully) bring back Epic Proper, but I've no doubt they'll get around to it some day!
Mysterio wrote: GW or FW will eventually make an AT/New-Epic Imperator - it may take a while, and it may be after they (hopefully) bring back Epic Proper, but I've no doubt they'll get around to it some day!
Indeed. Even though they say it's unlikely, there'll be at least one designer itching to sculpt one. I wouldn't be surprised if some concept art hasn't already been sketched up.
TigerMafia wrote: Also, what pattern is that second Warlord head on the new sprue? Not the Mars-Beta (btw, love that they made it) but the other one. And the Reaver looks mean as hell. Very excited for this.
That head is based on the original Warlord titan head (from the old version of AT), a 28mm version of it has been spotted at shows along with the extened carapace sections that are also in this kit (there's a picture of it a few pages back), but it hasn't been released yet so no official title for it. I wonder now if the versions seen were just upscaled prototype versions of the parts in this new warlord kit, rather than something designed for a proper 28mm release.
ekwatts wrote: So I bought a Reaver a while back to paid with an Epic Armageddon force, since the scaling issues weren't really half as bad as anyone previously thought, but rather than use the included oval base, I mounted it to an 80mm round base. Would this be an issue if I decided I wanted to jump in to playing actual Adeptus Titanicus?
As Sherrypie said, this shouldn't be much of an issue. Unless maybe if you go for tournament games.
One easy solution I see is to magnetize the oval base and round base, with the oval base going under the round one of course.
The AT Reaver Volcano cannon is actually a new design, a 28mm version exists but it is different to the version on the new Reaver sprue, which has more in common with the Warlord Volcano cannon.
Are you talking about the reaver sprue in the news link? People keep talking about a volcano cannon on the sprue, but I'm not seeing it. I see the carapace weapon in the upper left-hand corner of the sprue. And I see the barrels of the melta weapon just below the center-right of the sprue. Where's the volcano cannon?
The stuff at the top right is only the outer layer of the melta cannon. There are supposed to be two barrels poking out of the end of the melta, and those aren't visible in the upper right pieces. So it appears to me that the two barrels in the middle center-right are glued together, and then the parts in the upper right are assembled around them.
The stuff at the top right is only the outer layer of the melta cannon. There are supposed to be two barrels poking out of the end of the melta, and those aren't visible in the upper right pieces. So it appears to me that the two barrels in the middle center-right are glued together, and then the parts in the upper right are assembled around them.
No I think if you look at the top right, the very small piece labelled (30) is the end of the melta (the circles being on the other side). Middle right gun certainly seems to be a volcanoe (look at piece 19 - the "vein" running along the bottom, and the little nodule on the underside of the "arm end". These would be invisible if encased in the melta bits. You can see how the melta is constructed and attached to the arm, then view it on the pic of the new reaver. The middle right gun (18 & 19) is not part of the melta.
The stuff at the top right is only the outer layer of the melta cannon. There are supposed to be two barrels poking out of the end of the melta, and those aren't visible in the upper right pieces. So it appears to me that the two barrels in the middle center-right are glued together, and then the parts in the upper right are assembled around them.
Alright, I'll accept that it's a second gun. Though that's as much to do with piece 20 (which is an attachment point for one of the arms; the melta attachment point is clearly visible with the melta pieces, which means that this one must connect to something else) as anything else.
It does make sense, given that the first reaver had two arm guns and a melee weapon. I don't know why they didn't advertise it. But at the same time, they also didn't advertise the carapace weapon that's mounted on the model.
angryboy2k wrote: I must be the only person in the world who thinks the Imperator is a terrible model. I don't think it ever looked good, and the years haven't done it any favors. :(
I'd rather see a dozen different knight variants any day of the week.
You're not the only one, I hate the look of the Imperitor and am rather glad they've said they have no intention of making one.
Was it not mentioned on that "maybe we'll make a" wishlist? Where they said a new titan between knight/warhound, one between warhound/reaver, and they basically went all the way up the scale to Imperator? i really don't see why the hell they wouldn't make an Imperator. Locistically, comercially, gamewise, lorewise, no problems at all fitting an Imperator into AT at some point.
No, as far as I remember the last talk regarding Imperator's was around the game launch and they said "no plans". I can't help feeling that on a 4x4 the Imperator would be a bit big.
It’d be half again taller than a Warlord, roughly 28mm Imperial Knight-ish plus the spires. I gave half a thought to building one with a Knight and all my AT terrain sprues but I don’t have much interest. I’d much rather kitbash some Nids, Eldar, or Necrons.
Imperator is big and likely would easily start to hit the near £100 model bracket. So I figure we won't see one for a long while yet, AT needs a lot more of its core game out, perhaps even as far as Chaos and Xenos before GW can consider building something that big and expensive.
Since when are FW doing plastic expansions? And why did Necromunda get them? I hate resin...
Since the budget allows them to. The other specialist game get the minimized budget treatment because GW simply didn't want to waste money. Anything that is not mainline 40k, Aos is a waste of money.
However for AT once GW realized that the "Titan Owner Club" and the "Titan Owner Wannabe Club" are rich and huge demographic they decided to invest more, and they hit the jackpot.
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