Yes, due to the scale there will not be roads. Also, see teaser trailer.
This said, there could perhaps be some sort of trail markers instead, indicating more or less safe passages through the wastes - but neither roads nor railways.
I am actually designing rules for a road based Mad Max style game in an ash waste setting (using large road sections and a rolling battlefield) - but this requires extreme space. Game mechanics is a mix between X-Wing (movement trays and initiatives), Robo Rally (card based pre-planning of turns) and Necromunda (fighting).
El Torro wrote: I've been wondering what kind of terrain is going to come with this expansion. Sure, it wouldn't make sense to have the board as densely packed as fights in the Underhive. Just an appropriate mat should be fine, with maybe some occasional rocky outcrops or rubble here and there.
If GW go down this route though they're passing up an opportunity to sell us more stuff.
Well, the first thing to note is that there is a reason these convoys are out in the Ash wastes in the first place.
Necromunda is a core Imperial world, one of the most important planets outside the Sol system. It was also a heavily developed metropolis millennia before it became part of the Imperium. Based on what we know of Imperial infrastructure, the hives themselves are almost cerainly connected by extensive and advanced transit networks- likely rail links (maglevs are a thing in 40k) and motorways. These are probably kept open by the PDF and enforcers to maintain commerce and passenger transit. This is supported by this map of Necromunda with lines between the hives, including one labelled the "Great Ash Road". Raids on these would probably be very rare as the planetary goverment has a massive interest in keeping these major routes open.
So why go out into the wastes at all? I believe the Orlocks in particular operate a number of mines out in the Ash wastes, so resource acquisition is a major reason. Other resource examples could be to hunt useful critters or plants, or perhaps to obtain water. Necromunda used to have a planet-wide metropolis before a major xenos attack resulted in only the hive spires protruding from the Ash wastes, so ruins (with potential archeotech) should be poking out of the ash dunes or being uncovered in strip mining all over the place. House smuggling operations may also wish to avoid the main arterial routes and any scrutiny with their checkpoints to sneak goods around the planet, so they may have hide-outs to store contraband stockpiles or hide from pursuit. Particularly risky House activities could be secreted away in the wastes, especially experimentation that is wildly illegal under Imperial law- such as labs working on the Delaque psykers.
The nomads themselves must also have some kind of infrastructure or facilities to cope with such a harsh environment- in particular there must be "oases" that they can obtain water from (actual natural water bodies/aquifers, moisture farms, areas where a hive water-pipe is leaking, etc), and perhaps they move between these in caravans. They must also have reliable food sources.
There may also be isolated military installations out in the wastes, some of which could be abandoned and represent a good place to set up a hideout, or somewhere to loot for resources.
All of the activity above would lead to small settlements popping up to service the convoys and miners, and maybe trade with the nomads on occasion- these would probably be little more than defended stockades with a fuel station and trading post, maybe a secure water source. The recent market kit could look really good in a settlement like this.
As such, terrain could represent everything from open Ash waste dunes, to nomad oases, to ancient runes half-buried in the sand, to mining outposts, to small service station settlements. The existing Ryza-pattern ruins would likely make great terrain for a lot of this.
I would add that you would also venture into the wastes to move things between cities without being known. Smuggling to evade taxes, stuff that you're not supposed to move, relocating assets you don't want people to know about...
Since the skies have eyes (orbital auguries in 40k ling) this actually makes it more interesting. Sometimes you WANT to be moving during a dust storm or other obstructing weather.
And of course security is whatever you can afford. So basically a lot of the storyline should be haphazard smuggling gangs and ambushes.
We also already know there are multiple permanent settles out in the Wastes. These range from top secret House facilities, waystations, villages et al.
And yeah, I can imagine the new terrain will factor in.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I do reckon that, whilst pricey, two or three Gang Strongholds could make a decent waystation type location?
Absolutely, there's even a water tower. In fact the whole Stronghold is far more sensible when outdoors rather than inside the Underhive in the first place as it's basically a walled courtyard. It also connects to the Mortalis floor tiles rather poorly. Heck, now that I'm thinking about it, it might have been designed as an Ash Wastes outpost in the first place and released early for some reason. The water tower is very Mad Max.
Oooooh. I think I’ve just shifted my campaign concept. Ash Waste Settlement, setup over buried ruins. Gangs are exploring and exploiting the ruins in a sort of Dungeoneering style.
StraightSilver wrote: I knocked this together quickly in MS Paint but I think 2 of the rumour engines are almost certainly the land train.
Top left and top right images make me think of photos with oilify and/or cartoon filter over it, used as a cheap and quick thing for online comics.
Based on that, I think there is a model of that land train...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I do reckon that, whilst pricey, two or three Gang Strongholds could make a decent waystation type location?
lord_blackfang wrote: In fact the whole Stronghold is far more sensible when outdoors rather than inside the Underhive in the first place as it's basically a walled courtyard.
Oh it absolutely does work as an 'outside' terrain feature:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I do reckon that, whilst pricey, two or three Gang Strongholds could make a decent waystation type location?
lord_blackfang wrote: In fact the whole Stronghold is far more sensible when outdoors rather than inside the Underhive in the first place as it's basically a walled courtyard.
Oh it absolutely does work as an 'outside' terrain feature:
That outpost needs to be surrounded by thousands of tyranid gants and gargoyles while guardsmen wait for valkyries to arrive and airlift them out
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I do reckon that, whilst pricey, two or three Gang Strongholds could make a decent waystation type location?
lord_blackfang wrote: In fact the whole Stronghold is far more sensible when outdoors rather than inside the Underhive in the first place as it's basically a walled courtyard.
Oh it absolutely does work as an 'outside' terrain feature:
That outpost needs to be surrounded by thousands of tyranid gants and gargoyles while guardsmen wait for valkyries to arrive and airlift them out
That would be cool!
I think the sweet spot for the Stronghold is 2.5.
I have 2 currently and think the 3rd would round it out nicely.
Don't forget it's fully comptible with Mortalis walls and pillars, and the latter are much more accessible than extra Stronghold corner parts if you want to do wonky shapes.
I liked the trailer for Necromorka. I wish they'd shown at least one model, though. Oh well, guess that's something to look forward to in the coming months then.
zamerion wrote: We ushered in a whole host of reveals at LVO, but that was just the start. Next week we’re diving into a sizzling slate of news and announcements,
HOPE WE HAVE MORE NEWS
It will be an announcement giving us a date for a future announcement, where they will show 1 blurry pic or crappy animation and make another announcement about the date of the final announcement.
Oooooh. I think I’ve just shifted my campaign concept. Ash Waste Settlement, setup over buried ruins. Gangs are exploring and exploiting the ruins in a sort of Dungeoneering style.
Graphite wrote: You can just use a shoebox. Which will be a little cheaper than an official GW model, and comes with free shoes.
Are you trying to cynically imply that a tiny plastic truck will cost more than a new pair of shoes?
Because of course it will
Well i can buy a relatively decent-ish pair of shoes for 50 USD online, while the Goliath truck already costs 60 USD, and i suspect the new Necromunda thing will be a good bit larger and/or more expensive...
Absolutely, there's even a water tower. In fact the whole Stronghold is far more sensible when outdoors rather than inside the Underhive in the first place as it's basically a walled courtyard.
Why would it make more sense for a roofless structure with no interior sections to exist outdoors, in an environmentally-hostile setting, than within a temperature-controlled and weatherless* indoor dome?
You could make the stronghold a good-looking outdoor outpost, but it would require either freestanding buildings inside it or some flat scenery that conveys the idea of entrances to underground interior sections, to pass the verisimilitude test.
*depending on how the failing hive infrastructure is working on that day
Actually a lot of the Necromunda regions have rainfall. It's just not from clouds but from the system run-off or an old habitat eco system that broke years back; or waste liquids from industry high up in the factory levels that had spilt and trickled down through the gaps.
Chances are you'd want your own roof over your head least you wake up bathing in acid rainfall or worse.
And then there are the gangs. The Ash Wastes are full of interesting (and murderous) denizens, only some of whom will be familiar to longtime inhabitants of the underhive. That means new factions to play.
Key to the setting is the terrain – games take place not in the twisted, cramped environs we’re used to, but in the vast openness of Necromunda’s irradiated surface, making them a unique new challenge. As such, you can expect new terrain and new vehicles, including the ones hinted at in the reveal trailer. Gangs aren’t just scuffling in the Ash Wastes for no reason – they’re protecting (or attacking) valuable convoys as they roll across the dunes. Rest assured, you’ll be able to represent these situations faithfully in your games…
In the run-up to the release of Necromunda: Ash Wastes, we thought we’d show off some of the myriad locations in this incredible setting. Below is a small portion of the vast map we put together while we developed the setting. We’ll zoom in and describe some of these places in the future, but for now, here’s a look at the Palatine Cluster – the centre of which is, of course, Hive Primus.
Some very interesting art in this update. From the size of it, The Crucible (House Orlock's seat of power) is big - the icon is as big as some of the minor hives in the cluster.
There seem to be a fair few airports, too - which would make sense as Primus is the only spaceport on planet. I wonder if they double as satellite spaceports since they're in the Paletine cluster? I would assume so, since landing the shear number of grain barges a day Necromunda will need on Hive Primus itself would be an air traffic control nightmare. Orbital defence battery is a nice touch.
Eh, wish they’d shown this off at the reveal, or not bothered with the reveal and just done the article. A minor whimbrle sure, but not an entirely unjustified whimbrle.
Seems this is a full new setting, so if you want to stick to the Underhive, you can. I’m up for that, as they should play really quite differently.
Hopefully we’ll get chunkier info and eyes on Precious Things before long.
I for one am already pondering rules for ambushing Ambots. A remote trigger thing with them bursting out of ash dunes.
Dread Master wrote: So, according to our very detailed roadmap, we can expect box, book, book, book, box, box, box. Intriguing, and simultaneously irritating.
Box of all the things.
6 months of books to cover everything in the box, while all things are paywalled in the giant box.
6 months of releasing bits from the box seperately.
Dread Master wrote: So, according to our very detailed roadmap, we can expect box, book, book, book, box, box, box. Intriguing, and simultaneously irritating.
Box of all the things.
6 months of books to cover everything in the box, while all things are paywalled in the giant box.
6 months of releasing bits from the box seperately.
Dread Master wrote: So, according to our very detailed roadmap, we can expect box, book, book, book, box, box, box. Intriguing, and simultaneously irritating.
Box of all the things.
6 months of books to cover everything in the box, while all things are paywalled in the giant box.
6 months of releasing bits from the box seperately.
A full year of Ash Wastes!
Sadly, I think there’s an element of truth in this, but I don’t think it will be quite that bad. Specialist games have a habit of throwing out random extra stuff on a regular basis, particularly for Necromunda. In fact the Necromunda team feels much more like FW of old; a bunch of lore-soaked nerds who come up with cool ideas and just make models of them.
The Ash Wastes are full of interesting (and murderous) denizens, only some of whom will be familiar to longtime inhabitants of the underhive. That means new factions to play.
Okay guys, you can moan about the mystery books whilst I look forward to the brand new factions that haven't been seen before even by veterans of the original incarnations of the game.
Scavs, spyrers, rats, nomads are all that's left from the original factions, from what I can remember. Maybe fully realised guilders will be the new thing, or slavers, or some sort of droid contingent.
Geifer wrote: After that wonderfully informative roadmap I now know exactly what to look forward to. Thanks, GW!
Could be caution being shown due to ongoing unpredictability in supply.
Or they’re just playing Tight Mouth Larry.
Likely the former, which is why I'd prefer that they show a model instead. No matter how understandable GW's reluctance is to put dates on the roadmap, without them it has precious little use. "We're going to release stuff". Yeah. Who knew? At least a picture of a model is something you can enjoy regardless of any potential delays its release might suffer.
Dread Master wrote:So, according to our very detailed roadmap, we can expect box, book, book, book, box, box, box. Intriguing, and simultaneously irritating.
Geifer wrote:After that wonderfully informative roadmap I now know exactly what to look forward to. Thanks, GW!
Don’t you guys get it? This is how maps work in the Wastes; you’re being given a fully immersive experience!
Dread Master wrote:So, according to our very detailed roadmap, we can expect box, book, book, book, box, box, box. Intriguing, and simultaneously irritating.
Geifer wrote:After that wonderfully informative roadmap I now know exactly what to look forward to. Thanks, GW!
Don’t you guys get it? This is how maps work in the Wastes; you’re being given a fully immersive experience!
No! A map has an X so you know where to go. Without an X it's not a map. And that map has no X.
I know that because the one-armed, one-eyed, one-legged bloke who sold me a real map to the Wastes told me so. And he should know. He had a map, and the map had an X.
Graphite wrote: There seem to be a fair few airports, too - which would make sense as Primus is the only spaceport on planet. I wonder if they double as satellite spaceports since they're in the Paletine cluster? I would assume so, since landing the shear number of grain barges a day Necromunda will need on Hive Primus itself would be an air traffic control nightmare.
I wouldn't be surprised if only Helmawr's personal supplies are delivered to the spaceport, and the imports for the plebs are just dumped into the wastes from orbit and trucked back by freelancers.
Maybe more than that - the "On hive" spaceport might be for passengers (it's close to the Strangers Tower so they can get the filthy Xenos out of sight quickly) while the outlying fields are for cargo.
The fact that we're getting 3 books this year doesn't surprise me, it's Necromunda after all. 3 boxes does surprise me though. I'm not even sure why they would release 3 boxed sets, assuming a box isn't just a vehicle. The first one would be the starter box I guess. The follow ups could be a set of generic vehicles and a set of terrain perhaps?
Whatever we get I just hope that we know what is coming in boxes 2 and 3 before box 1 goes up for preorder. Too much to hope for maybe.
El Torro wrote: Whatever we get I just hope that we know what is coming in boxes 2 and 3 before box 1 goes up for preorder. Too much to hope for maybe.
El Torro wrote: The fact that we're getting 3 books this year doesn't surprise me, it's Necromunda after all. 3 boxes does surprise me though. I'm not even sure why they would release 3 boxed sets, assuming a box isn't just a vehicle. The first one would be the starter box I guess. The follow ups could be a set of generic vehicles and a set of terrain perhaps?
Whatever we get I just hope that we know what is coming in boxes 2 and 3 before box 1 goes up for preorder. Too much to hope for maybe.
That's 3 books and the boxed set in one quarter, for the likely context.
I don't know what to make of 3 books, to be honest. I'm guessing one book might be the Ash Waste Nomads in their own form of a "House Of..." book and the other is a pseudo-"Fighting in the Ash Wastes" rulebook with a new unit for each of the "House of..." factions. Maybe the 3rd is an updated core rulebook or something? Maybe Enforcers will get an "Imperial House" book?
Personal take:
The boxed sets are going to be adding some stuff to the "base" gangs. Not just vehicles. Some kind of new ganger type or the like. It is worth mentioning that Orlock could easily be getting Drudges added to them...which would also be good to double up for GSC, and be an opportunity to add in the missing Seismic Cannon and Mining Laser options for the Orlock Road Captain and Road Sergeants.
Might also be an excuse to repack/expand the basic gang boxes with their expansion sprues?
I don't know what to make of 3 books, to be honest. I'm guessing one book might be the Ash Waste Nomads in their own form of a "House Of..." book and the other is a pseudo-"Fighting in the Ash Wastes" rulebook with a new unit for each of the "House of..." factions. Maybe the 3rd is an updated core rulebook or something? Maybe Enforcers will get an "Imperial House" book?
I wouldn't be surprised if there is one gang per book. I don't think the book would cover just the gang, but other facets of the game too. We don't know how many completely new gangs are coming out with Ash Wastes, but we know it's more than just Ash Waste Nomads. Having one book to cover all the new gangs would just be too convenient.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is one gang per book. I don't think the book would cover just the gang, but other facets of the game too. We don't know how many completely new gangs are coming out with Ash Wastes, but we know it's more than just Ash Waste Nomads. Having one book to cover all the new gangs would just be too convenient.
Here's the exact quote:
This toxic, rad-scoured landscape is too expansive to fit into a single book. In fact, the wastes are so vast we’re introducing them with a massive new boxed set, which will be followed soon after by a whole series of books exploring the factions that battle across the wastes.
And then there are the gangs. The Ash Wastes are full of interesting (and murderous) denizens, only some of whom will be familiar to longtime inhabitants of the underhive. That means new factions to play.
Key to the setting is the terrain – games take place not in the twisted, cramped environs we’re used to, but in the vast openness of Necromunda’s irradiated surface, making them a unique new challenge. As such, you can expect new terrain and new vehicles, including the ones hinted at in the reveal trailer. Gangs aren’t just scuffling in the Ash Wastes for no reason – they’re protecting (or attacking) valuable convoys as they roll across the dunes. Rest assured, you’ll be able to represent these situations faithfully in your games…
This is why I'm speculating the way I am for this. It might very well be that there's a new "House of Iron" book coming already, introducing the Drudges...or that there is a book that will look at the factions that are involved with transporting stuff across the wastes by land or by air or whatever.
Boxed Set - Orlocks and Ash Wastes Nomads, land train and bikes and terrain. Rules for the ash wastes.
Release 1 - Land train on its own, rules for the major gangs.
Release 2 - Ash Wastes Nomads on their own, expanded book for them.
Release 3 - New vehicle for everyone.
I think the nightmare would be if they did Ash Waste Nomads+6-10 vehicles and upgrade sprues. We'd literally be here for the next few years and, as we saw with the elite boxes, some ideas just aren't all that good. For every cyber brain squid thing, we get sky surfers (Chopper for Oz!) or zombie archers or slightly shorter and slightly taller Goliaths.
So if they do a vehicle/unit per gang it would be Goliath choppers, Esher dune buggy, Orlock truck and... Delaque cyber truck? Cawdor garbage hauler? Van Saar hovercraft? At some point it would be like the wacky races.
They don't say that it all has to be vehicular combat, right? Maybe some factions can't do certain missions where they would have to defend, but instead get missions where they have to raid settlements or ruins or the like?
They don't say that it all has to be vehicular combat, right? Maybe some factions can't do certain missions where they would have to defend, but instead get missions where they have to raid settlements or ruins or the like?
I’m kind of hoping we can nick vehicles off each other.
I of course mean in game. You try to nick my actual models? Madame Hammer and Mr Knees are going to have a falling out!
Would be ace if they also included PDF, which yes, would be a cheap cop-out model wise, but would love to convert up an ash waste Chimera and gasmask guard.
BrookM wrote:Would be ace if they also included PDF, which yes, would be a cheap cop-out model wise, but would love to convert up an ash waste Chimera and gasmask guard.
I reckon book one will just add generic vehicles for the standard house gangs, then each book after will be new Ash Wastes gangs like the House of series.
Release 1 - Land train on its own, rules for the major gangs.
This is GW we're talking about: each car will be it's own release, will cost as much as a land raider, and each gang's crew will be a separate bits release with rules that contradict the book they ship with.
They said terrain was critical, so one of those releases should be terrain, no? I'm really curious as to what this terrain is.
I'm expecting the 'Land Train', as we've seen, likely compatible with the current Container kit. Some sort of smaller buggie (hopefully a modular duo), and then some outrider style bikes would be nice. My main concern with the vehicle is the same concern I had last time Ash Wastes came around in the old Necromunda magazine: How do you rep crews? You going to need a Land Train for every gang, with their own unique crew? That's going to get very expensive very quick (especially if every Land Train is Battlewagon priced).
As for the Ash Wasters themselves, bikes or beasts? Both? Neither? I can't imagine all Ash Waste games are Max Max road affairs, as sometimes you'd be on foot. Sometimes you'd be assaulting/defending settlements. Other gangs... perhaps some of them won't be involved? Would Gestalt-Intelligence Alien Descendants masquerading as 'Delaques' even leave the hive? Would Escher? Could Cawdor afford to (unless they're using Flintstone cars, in which case yes please!)?
Geifer wrote: After that wonderfully informative roadmap I now know exactly what to look forward to. Thanks, GW!
Call it a roadmap without any destinations.
Kanluwen wrote: I love how we're supposed to expect 100% knowledge from day one...coolcoolcool.
BrookM wrote: Would be ace if they also included PDF, which yes, would be a cheap cop-out model wise, but would love to convert up an ash waste Chimera and gasmask guard.
It would be a great excuse to add a "Conscripts" unit, with autoguns or lasguns to the game.
This is all pretty exciting but the way it's worded sounds like it's pretty far off. Like maybe august or later in the year. And i'm not interested in another boxed set that costs as much as dark uprising did...no thanks!
Remember back in the day when new releases would just turn up in White Dwarf, two weeks before they landed on the shelves, and we had to pay £5 for the privilege of this 'Advance notice', and any rumour of upcoming products that surfaced on the internets were some sort of white whale that we would eagerly lap up like the deranged addicts that we so clearly are? Yeah me neither .
The first box is the starter, so two "gangs" and terrain.
I personally think they will start with a huge bang: two never before seen "gangs" and the terrain in question is actually the land train. It is just too damn big to be a faction's vehicle. It will have rules to represent movement- a rolling battlefield like we've seen in some of the White Dwarf Flashpoints or some such thing, but it's terrain for sure.
The next two books are the expanded books for the gangs in the starter, which will have FW extras to go with them. The third book and the box behind it will drop at the same time, and both will be for a third "gang".
I'm putting gang in quotes because these aren't all gangs in the same way the core six are- like enforcers, the word gang just doesn't fit certain factions.
I actually expect that there WON'T be releases of the conventional gangs from the original game tied to this expansion at all- we already have 2 GW kits per classic gang and FW extras on top. That range is complete.
The bespoke Ash Waste factions will be fluff connected to some of the big six perhaps, but they will be their own thing with their own aesthetic.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'm expecting the 'Land Train', as we've seen, likely compatible with the current Container kit. Some sort of smaller buggie (hopefully a modular duo), and then some outrider style bikes would be nice. My main concern with the vehicle is the same concern I had last time Ash Wastes came around in the old Necromunda magazine: How do you rep crews? You going to need a Land Train for every gang, with their own unique crew? That's going to get very expensive very quick (especially if every Land Train is Battlewagon priced).
As for the Ash Wasters themselves, bikes or beasts? Both? Neither? I can't imagine all Ash Waste games are Max Max road affairs, as sometimes you'd be on foot. Sometimes you'd be assaulting/defending settlements. Other gangs... perhaps some of them won't be involved? Would Gestalt-Intelligence Alien Descendants masquerading as 'Delaques' even leave the hive? Would Escher? Could Cawdor afford to (unless they're using Flintstone cars, in which case yes please!)?
Land Train I could see as a single sprue of 1-2 flatbed chassis with the wheel sets and able to connect together, then a separate sprue of a cab which mounts to the front of one to make an engine. Keep the flatbed top universal so you can add a munitorum container or the fragdrill like how the galvanic haulers can now. Titanicus already has a fuel tank comparable to the munitorum containers, and other similar modules could be added as terrain/train cars to the range.
It would be cool to see different vehicles themed to the different gangs like how there are 6 ork buggies loosely themed to the different klans. Escher with animal mounts kinda loke seekers of slaanesh. Goliath with a version of the Goliath truck from GSC. Van Saar with hover buggies like the Mule in Firefly- Serenity. Delaque with a smaller version of the terrax termite drill. Enforcers with a Repressor that can be ported into 40K later.
A repeat of the travesty of un-creativity that was the 6 different Ork buggies is something I 100% do not want for Necromunda. 6 set models with zero game options, zero build options, no modularity and no cross-kit compatibility. For Orks. ORKS!!! No... don't want that at all.
[EDIT]: Actually yeah, if the Goliaths can't take a Goliath truck, then really what the feth's the point of this whole affair?
I'd rather see we got a handful of vehicles that can be universally used by the gangs, but each one has a ton of options. I'm not that interested in seeing stupid stuff like a massive van saar hovercraft with plasma cannons popping out everywhere. The game has already moved kinda far away from the gritty scrapper gangs with poor weapons upgrading as a campaign goes on. It's already perhaps moved into the territory where it's weird some of this stuff has flown under the radar of the powers that be for so long.
Bespoke vehicles for each faction (minimum of six, maybe up to ten or twelve) seems highly unlikely though for such niche product line. Some sort of modular system would be the dream, but still very speculative given we know almost nothing about what's coming (having said that, the existing range is pretty expansive now that I think about it).
What makes you think it will be a niche product line? It's clearly the next "phase" of Necromunda. Unique vehicles would be almost mandatory considering the amount of unique flare each race has visually for their troops.
Now what is more likely is that GW will use more complex model partings so that you can have more types of vehicle built with a single kit. Optional parts; optional builds etc So that they can perhaps get away with just two or three sprue kits per factoin which can then build multiple vehicles for their group.
Much like most of the factions only have two plastic sprue of models for the core game, yet optional weapons let you build those into a wide range of troop types.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Land Train I could see as a single sprue of 1-2 flatbed chassis with the wheel sets and able to connect together, then a separate sprue of a cab which mounts to the front of one to make an engine. Keep the flatbed top universal so you can add a munitorum container or the fragdrill like how the galvanic haulers can now. Titanicus already has a fuel tank comparable to the munitorum containers, and other similar modules could be added as terrain/train cars to the range.
Kind of what I was thinking. A box with the semi and possibly a trailer and then another box with two trailers that you can chain to make as long a land train as you like. The latter I'd imagine has two flatbeds and a sprue that makes a casemate so you can have a bunker for the front and back of your land train, and room to put containers, crates or gangers in between.
Overread wrote: What makes you think it will be a niche product line? It's clearly the next "phase" of Necromunda. Unique vehicles would be almost mandatory considering the amount of unique flare each race has visually for their troops.
Now what is more likely is that GW will use more complex model partings so that you can have more types of vehicle built with a single kit. Optional parts; optional builds etc So that they can perhaps get away with just two or three sprue kits per factoin which can then build multiple vehicles for their group.
Much like most of the factions only have two plastic sprue of models for the core game, yet optional weapons let you build those into a wide range of troop types.
GW could make generic vehicles they can sell to anyone, with generic/mercenary crew if you will to complete them, and then make an upgrade sprue for each faction that has both crew and upgrade parts to let vehicles represent your faction.
Not sure if that's going to happen, though. Necromunda makes use of upgrade sprues, so the idea is already established in principle. But it really depends how much in love the designers are with their special snowflake freakshow. These days STC doesn't mean anything anymore and everything is custom for maximum faction identity. A generic vehicle doesn't really fit into that paradigm anymore, as much as I'd like it to.
That cave art seems to show what looks to be more or less literally a Munitorum Armoured Container on a trailer, possibly with a cab.
Seems like a reasonable start, also makes a “mine head” with the cranes a viable option too.
GW could make generic vehicles they can sell to anyone, with generic/mercenary crew if you will to complete them, and then make an upgrade sprue for each faction that has both crew and upgrade parts to let vehicles represent your faction.
Not sure if that's going to happen, though. Necromunda makes use of upgrade sprues, so the idea is already established in principle. But it really depends how much in love the designers are with their special snowflake freakshow. These days STC doesn't mean anything anymore and everything is custom for maximum faction identity. A generic vehicle doesn't really fit into that paradigm anymore, as much as I'd like it to.
The problem is that to try and make a single kit that can cover the chunky Goliaths, the light Escher, the Techno Delaque and others - you could do it but its going to be one huge single kit with a vast amount of options. Or you'll be selling a generic "hull" with a bunch of addon kits, each one specific to a house.
I just don't see it being possible really. Esp as these are likely going to feature a lot of open top vehicles and such. Even something as small as a bike would need different proportions for different riders and different legs and upper bodies and arms and head and all.
I think GW will go into this with a sensible approach to diversity and we'll see at least one unique kit per faction that will build at least one or more vehicle types.
What I do think we will see are new factions that appear only in this road-wars game.
Another thing to consider is transports, I'm sure we'll get a chance to put people on foot; heck GW might even go for mounted rules so that if your vehicle takes enough damage you can stop/crash and (on a dice roll with the latter) alight and continue the fight on foot.
It would fit GW's MO to put two new gangs with a vehicle each in the starter box, then bring house gangs into the game one by one over the course of 18 months with a new codex and custom vehicle. That way they force everyone to buy a new gang while they wait for their old gang to be viable again.
However I still think it's going to be generic vehicles, one by one, and each book will be tied to a vehicle kit, like I said on the onset.
Book of Truck Book of Buggy Book of Bike
And I insist that all the books together will invalidate the get-you-by book in the giant box.
Book of Truck - Orlock
Book of Buggy - Goliath
Book of Bike - Escher
Book of Hoverbike - Van Saar
Book of Peddlebike - Cawdor
Book of Ornithropter - Delaque
Book of Sirens - Palanite Enforcers
Book of Ecological-car - Corpse Grinder Cult
Book 1 - Updated Necromunda Rulebook including all errata, Trade Post, Blackmarket. I would assume that the Core rules of Necromunda won't actually be any different in the wastes - there's no reason why it can't all be compiled.
Book 2 - Nomads and other waste dwellers (Nomads. Orks? Updated Stealers? Ratskins?)
Book 3 - Book of the Wastes. Ash Waste equivalent of the Book of Peril - Hazardous terrain effects. Additional vehicle rules.
Remember - the objective is to make EVERYONE want to buy ALL the books.
I don't think we'll see any House Of... books for this iteration. They're finally getting into "add more areas of Necromunda".
2023 - Spaceships? The crashed ship graveyard and the Eye of Selene? Something akin to Space Hulk tiles?
Maybe Necromunda will add hostile animals/xenos similar to Warcry's monster mechanic. Giant spiders, etc, that just wander around the board. Given that it's the Ash Wastes, I imagine it would be easier to add this mechanic since there's probably a lot less terrain than a typic Necro board
I wonder if we'll see some 'upgrade sprues' for the Goliath Truck & Atalan Jackals, or if they'll re-cut the sprues with gangers rather than GSC.. (but you can always kitbash/convert)
It's possible the land train could have a generic crew (just a servitor wired into the cab) and lots of flat space for whichever gang you want to put in it.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: It's possible the land train could have a generic crew (just a servitor wired into the cab) and lots of flat space for whichever gang you want to put in it.
If they'd have any sense, they'd leave the crew and weapons out and have them on a gang upgrade sprue alongside interior details for one of the containers (Escher with Chem vats, Delaque with Scanners, Goliath with dumbells and lifting benches)
GW could make generic vehicles they can sell to anyone, with generic/mercenary crew if you will to complete them, and then make an upgrade sprue for each faction that has both crew and upgrade parts to let vehicles represent your faction.
Not sure if that's going to happen, though. Necromunda makes use of upgrade sprues, so the idea is already established in principle. But it really depends how much in love the designers are with their special snowflake freakshow. These days STC doesn't mean anything anymore and everything is custom for maximum faction identity. A generic vehicle doesn't really fit into that paradigm anymore, as much as I'd like it to.
The problem is that to try and make a single kit that can cover the chunky Goliaths, the light Escher, the Techno Delaque and others - you could do it but its going to be one huge single kit with a vast amount of options. Or you'll be selling a generic "hull" with a bunch of addon kits, each one specific to a house.
I just don't see it being possible really. Esp as these are likely going to feature a lot of open top vehicles and such. Even something as small as a bike would need different proportions for different riders and different legs and upper bodies and arms and head and all.
I think GW will go into this with a sensible approach to diversity and we'll see at least one unique kit per faction that will build at least one or more vehicle types.
What I do think we will see are new factions that appear only in this road-wars game.
Another thing to consider is transports, I'm sure we'll get a chance to put people on foot; heck GW might even go for mounted rules so that if your vehicle takes enough damage you can stop/crash and (on a dice roll with the latter) alight and continue the fight on foot.
Goliaths, sure, those guys may be a little on the wide side. The others are all more or less similar in bulk. An Escher or Delaquee not filling out a seat as much as an armored Van Saar really shouldn't be a problem. You'd have to get creative with Goliaths, but it's hardly impossible. Make the driver area roomy enough to accommodate a Goliath but have a default normal people seat in there for the gangs' upgrade sprue drivers to go. The Goliath sprue would have to include and alternate, swappable seat, possibly with integrated driver legs. Closed cab is another option.
True, everyone riding the same bikes wouldn't work, but bikes are hardly large. There's more something like the Orlock jetpacks or Van Saar skyboards that are on a gang specific sprue.
zedmeister wrote: I reckon the bigger land trains will be generic kits with gang add ons. Smaller buggies and bikes being gang specific.
Yeah, there's a good chance of that. There's no way GW is going to make half a dozen or more large land train kits.
Indeed, you also have to consider this is the Specialist Games department so they don't have as much access to plastic production. They're not going to hoover up their entire plastic allocation for 6 different large vehicle hulls leaving the rest of their games to resin production
I think it will be generic kit for train which is basically 3 containers with wheels and locomotive... then different faction transfers for that. And the rest will be clan sets and upgrades.
On the video the train stopped and they were sabotaged but IIRC there was no other vehicles right?
zedmeister wrote: Indeed, you also have to consider this is the Specialist Games department so they don't have as much access to plastic production. They're not going to hoover up their entire plastic allocation for 6 different large vehicle hulls leaving the rest of their games to resin production
I mean they hoovered it up for multiple different plastic kits for Necromunda and we've recently seen weapon packs shift from resin to plastic. GW is clearly investing more into giving specialist games more plastic access and chances are this goes hand in hand with them expanding operations and likely improving their workflow and warehousing as covid safe practice starts to come to an end and staff can likely return to working shoulder-to-shoulder and not having to walk only one way around the factory and such
I think it's tough to say. Necromunda has obviously been a good enough seller to get continued releases and more access to plastic production, so there's definitely more than one gang box every three months possible (Covid delays aside). But if you replace the single box of old with two boxes, say for a House core vehicle (heavy buggy, for instance) and escort vehicle (bikes and trikes) box to get the full Mad Max treatment to all factions, you just doubled the amount of kits per release slot. And you'd be looking at the same old problem of the six Houses taking a year and a half before we get to the last one. Then there's Outcasts, there is obvious need to slot in Ash Waste Nomads, you may want Enforcers to join the action (including that young hotshot called Max ) and that leaves out any Xenos, critters or cultists (although Genestealers happen to be in a good spot here, so they don't count). Also, terrain.
That is a lot of stuff, and potentially a years-long wait for the unlucky factions at the end of the queue. My suggestions for upgrade kits for generic vehicles is partially motivated by that. Once the actual vehicles are out, and provided GW could be bothered to release upgrades for more than one faction at once, you could cut down the wait by half and get everyone in on the action by summer next year (not true, because Covid, but you know).
Now of course you could say that's been Necromunda for the past five years, but hey, since GW has increased its production capacity (except for Covid, but you know) they may want to pick up the pace if Necromunda really is as good a seller as its continued plastic support suggests.
Judging from the current pace of releases production and/or distribution is still very much struggling and GW was already like 6 months behind with releases 6 months ago. I wouldn't put any money on them picking up the pace, if anything the vaguness of the announcements with no timelines implies they've resigned themselves to "it's ready when it's ready" rather than making solid plans.
It's also likely because the current situation keeps throwing random things into the mix that mess up forecasts. Even if the virus keeps at bay there's issues with shipping to consider. A container load of plastics or boxes that gets stuck in port somewhere or a sudden sharp rise in costs which makes them cut a side games releases to save money etc... All are things that can mess up the flow.
Also whilst the Omicron variant is proving to be less serious, it still can pass through a population super fast so suddenly you can end up with most of your work force off sick for a week.
lord_blackfang wrote: Judging from the current pace of releases production and/or distribution is still very much struggling and GW was already like 6 months behind with releases 6 months ago. I wouldn't put any money on them picking up the pace, if anything the vaguness of the announcements with no timelines implies they've resigned themselves to "it's ready when it's ready" rather than making solid plans.
Well 6 months for some, on time for others. Fury & Deep box was released on the month it was planned by the time it was completed product wise.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: It's possible the land train could have a generic crew (just a servitor wired into the cab) and lots of flat space for whichever gang you want to put in it.
In the video, the drivers looked like they had enforcer type helmets. Definitely a different vibe to the gang security in the cargo cars. The attackers also approached with lots of foot step sounds, like attack of the Ninjas or something. No big VRRROOOOOOM! like what a passing buggy should have sounded like. The blurry pictures of the attackers could be some sort of buggy but it could also be some dark eldar type open sand skiff.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Either way, I'm ready
lord_blackfang wrote: It would fit GW's MO to put two new gangs with a vehicle each in the starter box, then bring house gangs into the game one by one over the course of 18 months with a new codex and custom vehicle. That way they force everyone to buy a new gang while they wait for their old gang to be viable again.
However I still think it's going to be generic vehicles, one by one, and each book will be tied to a vehicle kit, like I said on the onset.
Book of Truck Book of Buggy Book of Bike
And I insist that all the books together will invalidate the get-you-by book in the giant box.
Outside the new vehicle mechanics, it would be pretty easy to guess what's coming. Another 7 cycle (3-1-3) campaign. No catch-up mechanics (winner takes all). More territories. More skills (broken and imbalanced). More weapons. More bounty hunters. More scenarios (run/drive across the board, into the enemy, pick up some boxes and run back to your side again). A chance to make random changes to core rules. Not looking forward to this at all.
I don’t think we will see a regurgitation of the house gangs plus vehicles. I think the logistics of the gangs have been laid out pretty well across the books, and outside the confines of Hive Primus, the Orlocks rule the highways. That said, they will have a house gang presence in what’s coming, but the others will only through possible new factions as proxies, or Their relationship to House Orlock. The article Yesterday tells us only some of what’s coming will be familiar. The rest are new factions. That doesn’t leave much room for the established houses, from my pov.
Insurgency Walker wrote: But the kits man.......the kits! Plenty of old rules to use if you want.
Couldn't care less about new kits to be honest. There are so many new kits every day, week and months. If I wanted to create mad max vehicles, I would have done so with everything that's already available. Don't need a new boxed game to do so.
zedmeister wrote: Yeah, I'm hoping instead of enforcer patrols, we'll see the Spiders on patrol...
Spiders are Guard, not PDF.
Well technically Spider is (at least in the older lore) a house and a high up one, above the usual six we know...
They ran both the PDF and raising regiments for the guard.
Don't know if that would still be the case in modern lore...
zedmeister wrote: Yeah, I'm hoping instead of enforcer patrols, we'll see the Spiders on patrol...
Spiders are Guard, not PDF.
Well technically Spider is (at least in the older lore) a house and a high up one, above the usual six we know...
They ran both the PDF and raising regiments for the guard.
Don't know if that would still be the case in modern lore...
So, I can't find anything about it currently...but from what I can spot?
It says they were a "clan" and "gang", not a House. That dates back to C: Imperialis though.
Since that timeframe, PDF has been distinguished from Guard. PDFs are "local", ranging from instances like the Spiders where it is a ruling House controlled+outfitted gang while the Guard are controlled by the Imperium proper.
The Spiders were a house gang that got so large and successful that they were recruited wholesale as the Necromundan 8th Regiment. No-one knows what House they were originally from but then Houses rise and fall and change over time. The current big six are neither the only ones currently on Necromunda, nor the only ones to ever exist.
That said, the Van Saar do use the spider as their logo…
Dread Master wrote: I don’t think we will see a regurgitation of the house gangs plus vehicles. I think the logistics of the gangs have been laid out pretty well across the books, and outside the confines of Hive Primus, the Orlocks rule the highways. That said, they will have a house gang presence in what’s coming, but the others will only through possible new factions as proxies, or Their relationship to House Orlock. The article Yesterday tells us only some of what’s coming will be familiar. The rest are new factions. That doesn’t leave much room for the established houses, from my pov.
Agreed, I think SG will design 4+ new factions, they'll be more-or-less standalone, but may have favourable relationships with a specific gang and rules to integrate that gang into this setting expansion.
zedmeister wrote: Indeed, you also have to consider this is the Specialist Games department so they don't have as much access to plastic production. They're not going to hoover up their entire plastic allocation for 6 different large vehicle hulls leaving the rest of their games to resin production
It isn't like there are Titanicus or Aeronautica releases getting in the way. If the Norse team is plastic and not resin, that is likely the only thing jamming up their schedule.
All I can think of Ash Wastes, is that Dark Future was a thing once*, drawing on (sorry, 'inspired by') Car Wars, and is now running headlong into Gorkamorka and getting mashed up in Necromunda so it can get totally branded as 'this was totally our thing all along' IP protection and spill back into the world with a new look.
So I look forward to seeing what kind of vehicles and gangers are going to be zooming around the post apocalyptic future, regardless of what name is on the box. Hopefully the gangs will be a little more intersting than the 2017 redux.
*Plus all the one-off racing games they did in WD along the way.
So, I can't find anything about it currently...but from what I can spot?
It says they were a "clan" and "gang", not a House. That dates back to C: Imperialis though.
Since that timeframe, PDF has been distinguished from Guard. PDFs are "local", ranging from instances like the Spiders where it is a ruling House controlled+outfitted gang while the Guard are controlled by the Imperium proper.
Yeah that's a bit of confusion on my part, there's references to Clan Houses, so I've conflated them.
I agree that Clan Spider absolutely have no control over the N 8th they just supplied the men and women, but I was pretty sure that they handled the PDF around the Ork and Genestealer hives
It's a bit moot now seeing as the role I described them as having seems to be done by "Noble" House Greim now...
But they do have the last official model from the N 8th that I've seen so maybe the Spiders are a clan/gang under Greim now?
Flinty wrote: The game needs more engineering a d civilian vehicles anyway… good excuse to use this in either crane mode
Spoiler:
Or escort mode
Spoiler:
I thought about converting a Skorpius Dunerider for Necromunda as some kind of boat/ferry - more or less a nice terrain piece with house rules for special scenarios. But with this expansion I think I could use it in more ways and games.
I suppose there will be rules for mounts, so Serberys Raiders and Steeds of Slaanesh are excellent conversion material.
So this is coming up for preorder next week. Depending on the price I guess it's a welcome release for those who want to build up their terrain collection. I won't be buying it as I already have two Gang Strongholds and don't think I need a third.
So this is coming up for preorder next week. Depending on the price I guess it's a welcome release for those who want to build up their terrain collection. I won't be buying it as I already have two Gang Strongholds and don't think I need a third.
Well, I have two Strongholds too I panic-bought from an online store for... reasons..., but if the price is okay I could see myself getting that box. Not only is the whole Necromunda terrain very versatile, but having a nice fort is also a good preparation for the ash wastes.
Dryaktylus wrote: Well, I have two Strongholds too I panic-bought from an online store for... reasons..., but if the price is okay I could see myself getting that box. Not only is the whole Necromunda terrain very versatile, but having a nice fort is also a good preparation for the ash wastes.
Keep talking like that and I might be convinced to pick up two of these boxes
Judging by blackfang's analysis (which sounds more or less right) this box contains about £180 worth of terrain. If it retails for £125 (why not?) we're basically getting the Stronghold for free.
We'll know the actual retail price within the next few days I assume.
Depends if this is a discount box or just a bundle order…
I only have 1 stronghold, 4x wall and 2x stair kits and 2x boxes of pipes And 2x boxes of floor tiles (need a single tile if anyone has an extra to sell). I can probably splurge on this box to build a much bigger zone mortalis 3x3 board.
But this can’t be the terrain for ash waste? That sounds like another big necromunda terrain box. However this is still one of the best terrain sets GW ever created. I don’t k is why they don’t expand this set into killteam and 40K marketing.
I missed Hive Warzone previously. I only have 1x Dark Uprising, 1x Stronghold and the new Market so this looks like a good way to add to the collection.
gungo wrote: Depends if this is a discount box or just a bundle order…
Do GW pre-announce their bundle orders? I haven't noticed them do that before. Also this kit contains bits that can't be bought individually at the moment so I'm pretty sure it will be its own unique box.
gungo wrote: But this can’t be the terrain for ash waste? That sounds like another big necromunda terrain box.
It doesn't look like this is the first Ash Wastes box, at least I sure hope it's not. Just an addition for the current Necromunda.
So this is coming up for preorder next week. Depending on the price I guess it's a welcome release for those who want to build up their terrain collection. I won't be buying it as I already have two Gang Strongholds and don't think I need a third.
Well, I have two Strongholds too I panic-bought from an online store for... reasons..., but if the price is okay I could see myself getting that box. Not only is the whole Necromunda terrain very versatile, but having a nice fort is also a good preparation for the ash wastes.
Same here, 2 Strongholds and I've been thinking 3 is the median for all of the necromunda terrain kits.
More stairs/Platforms & walls/columns can't hurt.
Looks interesting depending on price (I have none of this terrain, so... ).
I'm amused by the article, however. It looks like they left out the first paragraph, jumping right past the intro and the name for whatever this box/bundle is.
I also wonder if they're just ditching stock for a shift to 'Ash Wastes' terrain, which presumably isn't going to be this kind of thing. I really hope they don't retire Zone Mortalis terrain and bases, but GW likes to GW...
Looks like another bundle where the bad stuff (barricades, pipes) eats up any actual discount on the good stuff (stronghold, walls, platforms).
Looks like a nice starter set if you have no terrain, but I suspect the discount isn't deep enough for me, since it's not all good stuff. It's like paying regular price for the items I'm interested in and getting extra gak I don't want for free.
Everything is useful terrain if you don't have any of that type.
But "medium scatter" is a much easier type to acquire and/or build than "modular LoS-blocking multistory" terrain is. I can use more of one type than the other.
Feels like I've been accumulating GW pipes for 10+ years now, and they're subpar to a lot of printed/scratchbuilt scatter that is shorter and allows passage over it. Pipes are serious movement roadblocks, but you can still shoot over them, so they exacerbate the shooting-heavy Necromunda paradigm.
The barricades are fine, but every person in my group bought one or more Necromunda starter sets, so we're past the point of needing more barricades unless we decide to play a custom scenario where our gangs are teleported to the Plane of Barricades.
Hmm, £170 is too steep for me. It's basically just Hive Warzone (which was a good deal), plus £5 for inflation, but you have to buy Stronghold to get the Warzone deal. I have plenty of Strongholds so that's not an attractive offer for me, I'll skip this (kind of a relief tbh, given GSC and HH and Chaos Knights all on the horizon, I'm glad this offer wasn't too good to pass).
Looks like 207 GBP / 270€ of content if we're generious valuing the OOP pipes, I don't recall if that's half a box or a quarter of a box. 15% ish discount is much worse than what we're used to in this size category.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I guess I'm still getting one if retail discounts apply, I was going to get the walls and stairs anyway and a 3rd Stronghold half off is something I guess, and pipes and barricades instead of a second doors sprue is fine.
The zone sector is a good set, but you're probably looking at needing 3 of them to cover a table well and that's where it starts to sting, I think at £100-125 it would have been a huge hit.
scarletsquig wrote: The zone sector is a good set, but you're probably looking at needing 3 of them to cover a table well and that's where it starts to sting, I think at £100-125 it would have been a huge hit.
This hobby is so absurd when you consider sentences like this. Three sets is like.. 690 USD and that's all unassembled product that you still need a ton of other things to actually use.
I feel like releasing the individual kits would build more hype for the bundle, as we would all be guessing at how small the discount would be and folks that didn't want to break the bank could get the parts they really wanted. Instead we are all talking about an insane price for people starting out to pay for a hill of grey plastic. Their terrain is cool, but it's easy enough to make walls and stairs outa junk. Why are they inflating the price so much and selling in bundles so big they seem like restock orders for bits sellers.
Value is relative but at the end of the day its just freaking miniature plastic walls and stairs. Doesn't matter how much in the box I would not pay more than £50 for that sort of product. Terrain is terrain after all and back to the old days where we had NONE there was still very nice tables around.
Today market has options so yeah.
Specially bad due to Necromunda verticality but I rather do it myself to be honest.
This Zone mortalis plastic set is just amazing in both modularity and quality… However it really benefits most from the separate plastic tiles. A 3x3 board of this is just awesome to play on for any type of killteam of necromunda campaign.
Mdf may be cheaper but quality wise it’s also much cheaper… my only complaint on this set is how expensive it is and I was really hoping this box would be cheaper as said you really need 2 of these boxes as a base for a good size board.
I still may pick up this box from a 3rd party retailer with 15% off… and I already own 9 tiles, 4 wall boxes and 2 stair boxes, 1 old and 1 newer pipe, and a stronghold. All I need is this and a market place to fill out my perfect 3x3 board for kill team, necromunda or a crusade combat patrol size game.
gungo wrote: This Zone mortalis plastic set is just amazing in both modularity and quality… However it really benefits most from the separate plastic tiles. A 3x3 board of this is just awesome to play on for any type of killteam of necromunda campaign.
I find the tiles limiting in terms of variety and aesthetic options.
They're fine if you're committed to using nothing but GW terrain, but the second you want to get creative and mix in non-GW stuff-- that isn't sized for the tile grid -- you may encounter problems slotting those dimensions in with everything else. Same problem if you want to do something like a board with streets/structures on a diagonal.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well you can see plenty of plastic Zone Mortalis builds on the interwebs that cost mre than a car
I always want to know when I see those online whether the person who owns them is incredibly wealthy or just terrible with their money.
There's also the gaming store angle, either paying wholesale prices and perhaps even getting some kind of tax incentive (this isn't a purchase of stock, it's a business expense). It could also be a commission for a gaming club so that price has been split between a bunch of people, or if the youtube channel is big enough then the channel pays for this (or they sell it off afterwards).
Tastyfish wrote: There's also the gaming store angle, either paying wholesale prices and perhaps even getting some kind of tax incentive (this isn't a purchase of stock, it's a business expense).
Not even that. Depending on your level of store account, you could get $200ish worth of product a month for in-store terrain or event prizes.
gungo wrote: This Zone mortalis plastic set is just amazing in both modularity and quality… However it really benefits most from the separate plastic tiles. A 3x3 board of this is just awesome to play on for any type of killteam of necromunda campaign.
I find the tiles limiting in terms of variety and aesthetic options.
They're fine if you're committed to using nothing but GW terrain, but the second you want to get creative and mix in non-GW stuff-- that isn't sized for the tile grid -- you may encounter problems slotting those dimensions in with everything else. Same problem if you want to do something like a board with streets/structures on a diagonal.
You can add non-gw terrain to the tiles but you lose the ability to transport this stuff and modularity. For the most part the zone mortal is tiles provide a sturdy base where you don’t need to glue everything together instead you get a Lego like appeal where you can constantly take apart and rebuild into varying setups. The new zone mortalis market terrain doesn’t slot into the tiles and works. There may be some issues with certain pieces not lining up exactly where you want because of the asinine sub-grid layout and the tiles don’t work in diagonals but for the most part you can add anything to these boards.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well you can see plenty of plastic Zone Mortalis builds on the interwebs that cost mre than a car
I always want to know when I see those online whether the person who owns them is incredibly wealthy or just terrible with their money.
Why not both?
Or perhaps they’re a full grown adult with their own income who once their monthly obligations are paid are free to do precisely as they want with their own money, and certainly aren’t answerable to random chumps on the internet?
lord_blackfang wrote: Well you can see plenty of plastic Zone Mortalis builds on the interwebs that cost mre than a car
I always want to know when I see those online whether the person who owns them is incredibly wealthy or just terrible with their money.
Why not both?
Or perhaps they’re a full grown adult with their own income who once their monthly obligations are paid are free to do precisely as they want with their own money, and certainly aren’t answerable to random chumps on the internet?
Do you know, I stumbled upon a very intereting video the other day. Can't remember the name or who the host was, but she was talking specifically about GW and their high priced bundles. She made an interesting point about how some people with autism and other disorders struggle with money. This, coupled with FOMO, makes them very suseptible to GW's current limited box set shenanigans. So, back to your point, yes it's none of our business what people spend their cash on. But, mentioning that the limited bundles or these terrain boxes are very highly priced and you'd be better off getting them piecemeal or using alternatives, may get someone currently wound up with hype and FOMO to think again and not overextend themselves financially.
Honestly as a community we really need to step away from the continual judging of other peoples perception of value within the hobby.
It's fine to consider something as overpriced; or to consider that the value on offer isn't worth it to ourselves. But we really need to stop imposing that viewpoint upon everyone else within the hobby in general. Our own person assessment of if something is worth the cost isn't the same as another persons. I also think its being rude/spoilsport/downer/etc... to always load that kind of attitude toward things that other people take great joy in buying, building, painting and owning.
There's no problem in saying "I don't like X" or "I think X is overpriced" in moderation or "hey that looks neat but Y from another firm looks better/is cheaper/is easier to work with".
Vorian wrote: You would not be better off getting them separately though, would you?
Depends on so many things. What's a persons budget? Can they afford to splurge £170 on this considering that there's a load of more GW bundle boxes coming that they could end up wanting (Ash Wastes, the next 40k or the next AoS box)? When are they likely to paint said terrain? Will it just get stuck in storage for 3-5 years? Longer? Would a £30 box be a better investment as their hobby priorities could change or they may hate the experience of painting and they end up with regreting their £170 purchase. I'd say that if you can afford it and are currently building up a Necromunda or 40k board using this terrain and then it'll probably be worth it as you're planning on buying the parts anyway and the box will save you a bit. if you're just going to dump it into storage, then I'd say don't bother as your paying to GW to store the terrain and there's a chance it'll just end up getting sold off for a loss.
Some GW bundles offer no saving. At all. But then, they don’t exactly tend to include exclusive models the way a paired battle set does (at least early access to said models).
But these sets do offer a saving.
And I hate to sound callous, because I’m normally a dirty lefty, but if a given customer has poor impulse control, I’m not really sure what GW can be expected to do about that?
As someone who gets all the GW shinies and dumps them into storage I have to say, I never made a loss getting rid of them. It's not as good as MTG but it's a pretty safe money storage.
Heck if you want to talk about FOMO, MTG is far worse than GW. Sure the price per unit is cheaper, but at the same time top decks for their standard format cycle every few month and the "top cards" can sell for way more than some GW kits all for a single sheet of card with some ink on it. At least with a GW kit a higher price normally means a larger model, with card games a higher value on a card typically just means they randomly printed less of them than other cards (eg the rare cards instead of commons).
On cost and value... our family of 4 went to see a play on Broadway and it was $500 even before food, transport and souvenirs. 2 hours but totally worth it.
Now obviously $500 for Broadway or GW terrain or a day of golf or 30 minutes of driving race cars on a track, or skydiving is too much if you don't have $500 to spare.
But once you do, who's to judge?
Which isn't to say people can't complain about prices, or suggest alternatives. I've had as much fun with plastic card, toys and food containers as I've had with expensive GW sets.
Just be aware we're all in different economic circumstances and at different places in our lives.
Vorian wrote: You would not be better off getting them separately though, would you?
Depends on so many things. What's a persons budget? Can they afford to splurge £170 on this considering that there's a load of more GW bundle boxes coming that they could end up wanting (Ash Wastes, the next 40k or the next AoS box)? When are they likely to paint said terrain? Will it just get stuck in storage for 3-5 years? Longer? Would a £30 box be a better investment as their hobby priorities could change or they may hate the experience of painting and they end up with regreting their £170 purchase. I'd say that if you can afford it and are currently building up a Necromunda or 40k board using this terrain and then it'll probably be worth it as you're planning on buying the parts anyway and the box will save you a bit. if you're just going to dump it into storage, then I'd say don't bother as your paying to GW to store the terrain and there's a chance it'll just end up getting sold off for a loss.
Come on now. They've just offered a bundle at a discount. Let's not get into the realms of the ridiculous.
Some people may prefer cheaper options, some may prefer printing stuff - but if people want GWs stuff and feel the price is what they are willing to pay, that's up to them.
Overread wrote: Heck if you want to talk about FOMO, MTG is far worse than GW. Sure the price per unit is cheaper, but at the same time top decks for their standard format cycle every few month and the "top cards" can sell for way more than some GW kits all for a single sheet of card with some ink on it. At least with a GW kit a higher price normally means a larger model, with card games a higher value on a card typically just means they randomly printed less of them than other cards (eg the rare cards instead of commons).
Magic cards have intrinsic value as playing pieces, making them a more legitimate currency than $ or €, fight me
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: And I hate to sound callous, because I’m normally a dirty lefty, but if a given customer has poor impulse control, I’m not really sure what GW can be expected to do about that?
Nothing. GW is probably exploiting various mental holes and vulnerabilities in us all (as is MTG, Computer Gaming, etc). I'm just saying, we should be pointing out that these boxes are expensive and we shouldn't shy away from mentioning that if someone seems a bit too enthusiastic at buying it.
Value is relative…
Some people budget themselves a hobby budget every month. This doesn’t make them bad with money…
Some people find value in spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on painting services… (I rather do it myself)
Some people find value in buying expensive but discounted bundles.
I tend to mostly buy discounted bundles or from 3rd party online retailers instead of individual splash releases which are way more expensive seperately.
I build everything quickly but I tend to magnetize like crazy and paint slowly. So I have a ton of Gw terrain on specific themed boards I like to create.
I have friends who enjoy painting w me and helps paint stuff. Although they can get annoyed on certain models that aren’t easy to paint even with all the magnetizing.
It’s possible to be responsible with your money and able to buy these big expensive sets, build them quickly without having boxes laying around and paint stuff at a reasonable pace and not be an autistic person who suffers from FOMO…which is frankly a childish irresponsible and unintelligent response that reaks of sour grapes.
Toofast wrote: Both. My friend and his wife have a combined income of $400k and just filed bankruptcy because they couldn't pay their credit card bills.
Probably did a 3 storied 6x4 Zone Mortalis board huh
tauist wrote: 170GBP? Sorry GW, I'll have to pass on this one. Come back when you can offer a significant discount
Going to have to agree. I waited years after Dark Uprising to purchase that. This is a nice set and if I was starting out it would be good. If it was under $200 it would be good but it is only terrain. Atleast with Dark Uprising you got two gangs, and everything to play with a book, dice, counters, cards, like everything. And that was a bit rediculously priced for the time of release. This will have to be a pass for me as well.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: On cost and value... our family of 4 went to see a play on Broadway and it was $500 even before food, transport and souvenirs. 2 hours but totally worth it.
Now obviously $500 for Broadway or GW terrain or a day of golf or 30 minutes of driving race cars on a track, or skydiving is too much if you don't have $500 to spare.
But once you do, who's to judge?
Which isn't to say people can't complain about prices, or suggest alternatives. I've had as much fun with plastic card, toys and food containers as I've had with expensive GW sets.
Just be aware we're all in different economic circumstances and at different places in our lives.
Yeah the price doesn't bother me the slightest. But the value? The terrain is nice and all, but I would expect a premium game to go with such quality terrain. The rules for the stronghold alone is lackluster. Watchtower counts as rolling 12 for spotting attackers in sentry missions. But how tall is it? And how far can a mini be without being spotted? But then someone will certainly say that's easily fixed. Yes, it sure is. Measure 12" from the base of the tower instead (not sure how that would affect 'balance' of sentry missions, they're already deemed unplayable by some).
The thing is, I don't pay premium price for a game where every other piece on the table needs simple fixes.
JWBS wrote: £170 will certainly be the price going forward, the 10% increase is already accounted for.
You’d think but it’s on updated price list at £190! all individual Zone Mortalis kits are going up £5 from what I can see.
Truth be told I didn't even think that the new bundle box would be around long enough to be affected by the price hike. The less than stellar discount on it makes more sense if it's a regular item that's stocked for a longer period of time.
I have no words, the Sector barely has 4 kits worth of stuff in it, so content goes up by 20, price goes up by 20, relative savings go down from an already modest 15ish %
Yeah, BB got it in the neck. But then they’ve consistently been among the best value items in the range so I guess they figured that it balanced out in some sort of meta-contextual way…
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Didn't they say terrain is going up by 20% versus 10% for miniatures?
Nope:
So, regrettably, we’ll soon be increasing prices a little.
In many cases, this will be about 5%. So, as an example of what you can expect on most kits, a box of Space Marine Intercessors will go up just £1 from £35 to £36.*
A few things are going up about 10% (e.g. books, scenery, resin miniatures), and there are a couple of outliers (e.g. Blood Bowl teams and metal miniatures) which are going up around 20%.
The price change will come into effect on the 7th of March.
It does feel like unpleasant FOMO - buy it RIGHT NOW or pay more later!
How do you manage to not break down into uncontrollable FOMO at the end of each day when the stores close, if that's what you think fomo means?
Isn't this pretty clearly a "Fear Of Missing Out" on a "reduced" price? Because it sure feels like FOMO, if so. Same idea as the "special boxes" or the "Early Bird Specials" from crowdfundings...
I mean, if you think it's not the same idea, I don't know what to tell you... other than back when I was working at GW, every time they had a price "adjustment" they drilled onto us how important was for us to communicate it to the customers, so they would not "miss out" on the "bargain" prices. We had special training session and everything.
Collecting together a host of Zone Mortalis scenery kits to build a total of 106 pieces of highly detailed terrain – every element of which is designed to be compatible or interchangeable with the others – this box is your one-stop shop for building a Necromunda table with multiple tiers and elevations.
There's no need to limit yourself to Necromunda, either – this terrain is also ideal for use in games of Warhammer 40,000 and Kill Team.
This 438-piece kit contains:
Zone Mortalis Gang Stronghold
- 1x Watchtower
- 1x Gunk Tank
- 1x Set of Stronghold Gates
- 4x Stronghold Walls
- 2x Stronghold Corners
- 1x Stronghold Wall Extension
Zone Mortalis Platforms and Stairs
- 2x Sets of Stairs
- 16x Platforms
- 2x Wide Platforms
- 12x Railings
- 4x Ladders
- 1x Lift
I think new products will have the new prices baked in. It's just that the old stuff will stay as it is.
But I guess we'll have to wait until the next basic release comes out to know. Probably the next one is Eldar Guardians, right? So, if that box comes out at AUD$98, same as equivalent units, then the prices are staying as is. If it comes out at AUD$103 (ie. +5%), then we'll know that GW are very careful with their wording (unlike their rules, amirite? *rimshot* ) and when they said they weren't raising prices what they actually meant was not raising prices on the existing range.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: It's a third party item that would be of direct value to people who are interested in Necromunda.
This is "Necromunda Underhive News & Rumours".
Not "Necromunda Underhive News, Rumours, and Third Party Stuff That Might Be Interesting".
And you're not going to make any acknowledgement of your inconsistent bullying behaviour?
If you consider that "bullying behavior", then I apologize to you for it.
But considering the fact that there's a poster on this forum who has outright stated that he does nothing but post at me to troll me, knowing I have him on ignore and the moderation team does zilch? You'll get over it.
Kanluwen wrote: This is the Necromunda thread, not the "third party kickstarter thread".
Not seeing "Official GW product only" in the title. The third party product being talked about is literally a resculpt of 1995 Necromunda terrain.
BrookM wrote:HERE BE THE DISCUSSION OF NECROMUNDA NEWS AND RUMOURS, ANY AND ALL OTHER DISCUSSION, BE IT MINIATURE DESIGN, CUSTOM RULES AND WHATNOT GOES ELSEWHERE, MANY THANKS!
You could also view the OP and see that nothing in it is third-party.
lord_blackfang wrote: You can backseat mod all you want, but an actual mod posted the previous picture of that 3rd party kickstarter, so good luck.
And then posted nothing more, as per usual.
He's not obligated to post anything more about it, this isn't a subscription service. Anyone can post a pic of anything Necro news related and then abandon the thread forever if they choose, doesn't mean you get to boss the content. I suppose we should all be thankful you didn't start he thread so at least you can't request a thread lock when the fancy takes you, as is your wont (anyone that doubts this can check post history, currently seven N&R threads locked on his first 'threads started' page, not an accident).
Group intervention needed here? Go ahead, virtual hugs to everyone now!
On a Necromunda note since I haven't read the latest fluff... are the delaque human or something else? They are way taller than human and you cant see beneath those long coats...
BaronIveagh wrote: Still Just cheap enough that I can't get a good SLA printer for the same money.
Photon Mono 4k is 9$ more than US MSRP for the Sector. Granted, in practice you also need a significant amount of paraphernalia.
Yeah, typically a full set with that costs about 800, though the printer itself is cheap.
...no, not in the slightest as much as that. Hell, I've had three resin printers and still haven't spent that much... well, no, actually I think the third printer pushed it up to that. But still.
lord_blackfang wrote: You can backseat mod all you want, but an actual mod posted the previous picture of that 3rd party kickstarter, so good luck.
And then posted nothing more, as per usual.
He's not obligated to post anything more about it, this isn't a subscription service. Anyone can post a pic of anything Necro news related and then abandon the thread forever if they choose, doesn't mean you get to boss the content. I suppose we should all be thankful you didn't start he thread so at least you can't request a thread lock when the fancy takes you, as is your wont (anyone that doubts this can check post history, currently seven N&R threads locked on his first 'threads started' page, not an accident).
Only one of which was locked per my request, the BT one. One of them was even locked by Kid_Kyoto despite having been started as a clean thread specifically to clear out the leaked images that people kept posting for the Indomitus starter.
But hey. Next big preview, you can run the OP and keep it open after the event ends(like most of them are in my "threads started" page, assuming that they weren't being dragged off topic). I don't give a crap. I don't get any thanks, acknowledgement, or anything of substance for it.
I literally only do it because my schedule allowed me to and because I feel like it's nice to have a constantly updated original post.
lord_blackfang wrote: Haven't read anything myself but there were rumblings of them being the pre-imperial xeno natives of Necromunda.
This is very interesting. Delaque being xeno makes sense regarding the weird scale of them. I need to pick some greenstuff and xenophy them accordingly. I mean even the gang expansion models are SO alien like.
For the Delaque, it would seem that under the crust of Necromunda is a sea. In that sea there are the "original" inhabitants of the planet(pre human colonization). The Piscean Spectre is a construct using an alien brain to power/control it.
The connection between the alien consciousness & the humans is still a bit murky.
This expansion has the potential to take Necromunda into new playgrounds but I do wonder if it will still be the Necromunda has we know it. I hope they dont go too much into mega heroes with huge monsters route and keep it low tech and scum based
NAVARRO wrote: This expansion has the potential to take Necromunda into new playgrounds but I do wonder if it will still be the Necromunda has we know it. I hope they dont go too much into mega heroes with huge monsters route and keep it low tech and scum based
I mean, Necromunda isn't even Necromunda as we know it.
I'd be surprised if the upcoming expansion is still the same game. After all they even have two different names: it's not Underhive anymore but Ash Wastes. Why should it be the same game?
Blackie wrote: I'd be surprised if the upcoming expansion is still the same game. After all they even have two different names: it's not Underhive anymore but Ash Wastes. Why should it be the same game?
Good point, maybe instead of confusing inches we can have triangles and hexagons.
Blackie wrote: I'd be surprised if the upcoming expansion is still the same game. After all they even have two different names: it's not Underhive anymore but Ash Wastes. Why should it be the same game?
Do they? It hasn't been called Underhive since... the 2017 Underhive box has it? Even the Gang War books which immediately followed were just 'Necromunda: Gang War X'.
I'd imagine it's still Necromunda: Ash Wastes in the same vein as Dark Uprising and the like; a new set with the same basic core rules (albeit consistency of those rules is seemingly optional) with some new content bolted on to account for the different style of scenario/vehicles. i.e. still the same game but with extras and a different campaign.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Forget that! Let's go full-on Imperial, with rods, chains, links and... uhh... barleycorns!
At least I could get a ruler in those measurements!
JimmyWolf87 wrote:
Blackie wrote: I'd be surprised if the upcoming expansion is still the same game. After all they even have two different names: it's not Underhive anymore but Ash Wastes. Why should it be the same game?
Do they? It hasn't been called Underhive since... the 2017 Underhive box has it? Even the Gang War books which immediately followed were just 'Necromunda: Gang War X'.
I'd imagine it's still Necromunda: Ash Wastes in the same vein as Dark Uprising and the like; a new set with the same basic core rules (albeit consistency of those rules is seemingly optional) with some new content bolted on to account for the different style of scenario/vehicles. i.e. still the same game but with extras and a different campaign.
Assuming that they just add vehicle rules into the main Necromunda ruleset, at what point do we just end up back at 2nd edition 40K??
Assuming that they just add vehicle rules into the main Necromunda ruleset, at what point do we just end up back at 2nd edition 40K??
At the point where you jettison the campaign system, start running around with squads of Space Marines and Orks, start seeing terminator armour saves on 2d6, ignore ammo rolls, introduce Sustained Fire dice...
People seem to forget that Ash Wastes existed (with vehicles! and riding beasts!) previously and we didn't just end up playing 2e, there's plenty of room to add vehicles into Necromunda without just making it 40k
Boxed Set - Orlocks and Ash Wastes Nomads, land train and bikes and terrain. Rules for the ash wastes.
) and that leaves out any Xenos, critters or cultists (although Genestealers happen to be in a good spot here, so they don't count). Also, terrain.
)
