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"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/06/30 20:01:36


Post by: Gorlack


Update #2:




Update:

New rumours from Stickmonkey regarding a Codex Tau Empire supplement:


Anonymous source on faeit212, probably Stickmonkey wrote:
Tau Mercs

another Tau Supplement is in the works, it lines up with a few other rumours I've heard about the Tau before it was released to the world. Vespid and Kroot HQ choices, and the ability to play a non "Tau" Lists.


Stickmonkey on Faeit 212 wrote:
I have a little more on the Tau mercs supplement.

First, I was told this wasnt planned be out til Q1.

Second, I was told that either this or one of the eldar supplements would be the first with a model wave to go along with it. I wasnt told which models or which eldar supplement.

warning: what follows is my speculation

My best guesses are a plastic pack kroot hq, which I saw in design before. This would be a slightly bigger kroot than the current troops. Had a tau rifle, not a kroot gun. A bit more armor than a standard kroot. Standing on a rock in a "crossing the Delaware" pose. Caveat that this was still in CAD, lots can change, and it was last fall.

Also a vespid plastic kit thats been ready for a while.

My eldar guess would be the first round of the plastic aspects with beil-tan.

When the tau dex was released I went back to my sources about the allied races not getting support after seeing so much studio work on them, and this was eventually what I was told.


There is also a rumour (confirmed?) that the printed version of Codex Farsight will be released in October.



Old post:
It has been mentioned briefly in other threads, but figured it deserved its own.

In the White Dwarf there is this little blurb:

Commander O'Shovah is a maverick, a greatly admired military leader who has broken ranks with the Tau Empire and carved out a highly militarised region on the edge of Tau space, known as the Farsight Enclave.

This expansion for Codex: Tau Empire, available for iPad, explores the breakaway Farsight Enclave in greater detail than ever. It contains new background, a timeline of events, rules for using your Tau Empire collection and a glorious gallery of Citadel miniatures painted in the colours of the Farsight Enclave by the 'Eavy Metal team and the Design Studio army painters. This is the perfect compaion for your Tau Empire codex on the iPad.


As a long time Tau player I gotta say I'm both very thrilled and deeply disappointed.

Will be so sweet to finally se long passages of fluff and artwork of one of the more intriguing facets of the Empire - and especially the rules. But iPad only? Hope this at least gets converted to either PC or Android as a lot of the other stuff has. But can't see why Iyanden got a hard back release, but Farsight is relegated to digital only... Hope sales will prompt them to make it in book format.

No word on release date in the WD. Can someone with an iPad check if it's already out?

EDIT:
This picture went up as a teaser:



Translated it says: "Independence from the empire. Join the rebellion."

Still no definite word on digital only vs. printed version.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/06/30 20:10:55


Post by: cincydooley


It isn't up for preorder yet.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/06/30 20:41:46


Post by: spiralingcadaver


Well, if this had been 8ish years ago, I would have probably exploded- he was my favorite tau character.

Cool it's happening, lame that it's ipad and probably absurdly overpriced, either way.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/06/30 21:10:25


Post by: Grinshanks


I'm guessing it will be a similar release to the Iyanden supplement.

Limited edition hardback - £50
Hard back - £30
Ibook version (Ipad/Iphone) - £30
Ebook (epub file without the bells and whistles like ibook version) - £20

Can't see them differing in pricing and format too much from what they did there...

...touchwoodthecostdoesntincrease!


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 06:10:33


Post by: Grey Therion


I was at a local tournament today (1750points) and out of 6 Tau players there were only 3 Crisis Suits in TOTAL! The Riptide is just sturdier and easier to use under time pressure environment.

At the previous tournament I tried making a list around Crisis Suits and ended up fighting to see who would get last place!

I am excited to see what they do with the rules in the supplement and I think that it can be a great opportunity for the company to sell more Crisis Suits (and to have mine get un-boxed and out on the field again)!


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 06:17:15


Post by: lord_blackfang


The funny part is, if Iyanden is anything to go by, that you'll still be able to use Shadowsun in a Farsight army.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 06:36:54


Post by: davethepak


As a long time tau player, I think this is cool ....

However, I will wait for the non apple version.

Also, I would really rather have had my kroot supplement....


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 06:50:31


Post by: Krellnus


I'll definitley be getting this.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 06:53:08


Post by: Zweischneid


 lord_blackfang wrote:
The funny part is, if Iyanden is anything to go by, that you'll still be able to use Shadowsun in a Farsight army.


And why shouldn't you be able to? As long as you're not forced to use Shadowsun, I don't see the issue.

Those that believe it is not fluffy won't use Shadowsun, whether they would be allowed to or not.

Those that do want to use them together, be it for "historical" games, or perhaps for a nice campaign that finds Shadowsun and Farsight re-united against a terrible new enemy, have the option to do so.

Disallowing units never helps anyone.



"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 07:35:45


Post by: Peregrine


Can't say I'm surprised by this. It was incredibly obvious that there was going to be a Farsight "supplement" the moment the Eldar one was announced. But I'm still not going to reward GW for cutting material from the codex just so they can sell it separately later.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 07:56:49


Post by: shamikebab


What kind of rules do people think we might see? No Ethereals?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 08:11:57


Post by: Sigvatr


 Peregrine wrote:
Can't say I'm surprised by this. It was incredibly obvious that there was going to be a Farsight "supplement" the moment the Eldar one was announced. But I'm still not going to reward GW for cutting material from the codex just so they can sell it separately later.


Pretty much, yes. What's worse: are people at tournaments now expected to not only know the codex' rules but also those from every single supplement? I can't see this happening anytime soon.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 08:18:10


Post by: BrookM


This was somewhat hinted at more than two years ago on a less than reputable site.

I wonder if we'll see Earth Caste engineers and Fire Warrior heavy weapon teams as was hinted at back then.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 08:18:28


Post by: shamikebab


 Peregrine wrote:
Can't say I'm surprised by this. It was incredibly obvious that there was going to be a Farsight "supplement" the moment the Eldar one was announced. But I'm still not going to reward GW for cutting material from the codex just so they can sell it separately later.


What have they cut? You can play a Farsight army with the regular codex (just as you can play an Iyanden army with Codex Eldar.)


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 08:25:34


Post by: Zweischneid


If it's build like the Iyanden Supplement, I would guess it will have half-a-dozen of missions that tells the break-away of the Farsight enclaves (and that might include a 1st mission that actually includes Shadowsun and/or Aun'Va and/or a bunch of Ethereals to represent the time when things were still jolly good between them, just like Iyanden has missions from before Yriel got his Spear, etc.. . ).

The optional rules, as with Iyanden, will likely work with the missions (as in, you get Shadow Council with the Iyanden book 'cause you need it in the"The Cleansing of Menimshemash"-mission, not because you "need" it to play Iyanden more generally).


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 08:50:56


Post by: Fafnir


GW releases two supplemental books that, while having their own share of flaws, manage to be introduce some cool units, show off some very interesting fluff, and shows a genuine sense of passion in their design. Better yet, these supplements manage to be unique, and manage to add some real diversity to the armies they support.

GW then backs away from the idea of supplemental codecies, because apparently, having to mix all of those books to form one army holds back the game.

10 years later, they start releasing supplemental add-ons that would fit right in with the rest of their original codex, and are probably nothing more than information removed from the original books in the first place.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 09:12:06


Post by: Zweischneid


 Fafnir wrote:
, and are probably nothing more than information removed from the original books in the first place.


Have you read the Iyanden Book?

I cannot remember a "full/regular" Codex in the last 10-15 years that had anything similar to the stuff in the Iyanden Codex. Planetstrike/Cities of Death Strategems, "historic" missions, the Altar of War (which, for non-Supplement Codexes isn't published in the book, but as additional eBook thus far), etc....-

Even the "person-focussed" fluff of the Iyanden book isn't what you see in "regular" Codexes these days. The closest thing, arguably, was the 4th Edition Space Marines Codex, which was in large parts a giant advertisement/fan-boy-plug by Graham McNeill for his Uriel Ventris character / novels.



"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 09:13:45


Post by: lord_blackfang


Yeah, I loved Armageddon and Eye of Terror too.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 09:23:43


Post by: Fafnir


I was talking about the Daemonhunters/Witchhunters codecies, but Armageddon/EoT count too, I guess.

Older codecies had special missions in them. There's no reason why the fluff and added content couldn't have been easily stuffed in with the main codex. And don't go trying to justify it with 'volume of content.' For a $60 codex, you should be getting a hell of a lot more than 104 pages.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 09:51:26


Post by: Zweischneid


 Fafnir wrote:


Older codecies had special missions in them. There's no reason why the fluff and added content couldn't have been easily stuffed in with the main codex. And don't go trying to justify it with 'volume of content.' For a $60 codex, you should be getting a hell of a lot more than 104 pages.


You have to go back veeeeeeeeeeery far to have Codexes with missions in them.

Yes, it could've been included in the Codex. I don't like the current Codex format either with all those bloated "text-book-style" 1-page entries for every single damn unit in the book. Older Codexes didn't need that either and if the "regular" Codexes, especially the 6th Edition Codexes, would take a lesson or two from the Iyanden book, they'd be much improved.

But that is besides the points.

It's two very different things saying (a) content was purposefully left out of the main Codex, just to make the Iyanden book, vs. (b) there's good stuff in the Iyanden book, that could've been included in the Eldar Codex even though (!) it would've necessitated writing the Eldar Codex in a very, very different format to ... say ... the Dark Angels or Tau Codex.

The Eldar Codex has everything all other 6th Edition Codexes have too.

Moreover, a lot of the stuff you have in the Iyanden Codex would downright suck in the Eldar Codex. A psyker primaris power or Warlord Traits that work only on Wraithguards would be a major pain in a "general" Eldar Codex, as they would gimp effectively every Eldar army that happens to not include Wraith-type units or even Wraithguard in particular.

I don't even want to imagine the nerd-rage we would've seen if those were included in the "main-Dex": "But I play a Saim-Hann-themed-Jetbike-army and now I roll Warlord-traits that only work for Wraith-stuff and my Warlocks default to a Primaris Power that gives Wraithblades Furious Charge and GW's obviously only writing rules to sell their new Wraith-stuff, yadda, yadda, yadda....."


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 11:55:05


Post by: Backfire


 Peregrine wrote:
Can't say I'm surprised by this. It was incredibly obvious that there was going to be a Farsight "supplement" the moment the Eldar one was announced. But I'm still not going to reward GW for cutting material from the codex just so they can sell it separately later.


I don't understand how these supplements can be said to have been "cut" from the main codex. Compared to 4th edition Tau & Eldar codices, the 6th Edition Codices seem to contain just as much if not more fluff and options for building 'supplement armies' even without said supplements, so the new books are just gravy.

That said, I don't think everything is perfect in the new order: whilst I like the amount of fluff in current codices, it could be more efficient. Unit and vehicle descriptions have got just too damn long. Not every tank needs full page of text to explain what it does. That space could be used better, not to mention how tedious it gets reading hype about the units page after page. Also, GW is really shooting itself in the foot with their insistence of everything having to be "premiem" and priced accordingly. If you want to encourage people buy & build Iyanden armies (an admirable goal, in itself), don't price the books so damn expensive. Not everything has to be hardcover full-4-colour prints. Put some of the stuff on White Dwarf so that magazine gets something do.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 12:04:58


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Fafnir wrote:
10 years later, they start releasing supplemental add-ons that would fit right in with the rest of their original codex, and are probably nothing more than information removed from the original books in the first place.


They do have a real "Day 1 DLC" feel to them, don't they?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 12:14:44


Post by: SickSix


Don't expect any new models. And looks like non-apple users will have to wait an indeterminate amount of time.

Oh and expect to be able to make a Riptide your warlord! LOL


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 13:20:32


Post by: Amun-Rom


 Sigvatr wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
Can't say I'm surprised by this. It was incredibly obvious that there was going to be a Farsight "supplement" the moment the Eldar one was announced. But I'm still not going to reward GW for cutting material from the codex just so they can sell it separately later.


Pretty much, yes. What's worse: are people at tournaments now expected to not only know the codex' rules but also those from every single supplement? I can't see this happening anytime soon.


I've never played in a tournament where I was required to know all the rules in every other Codex.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 13:44:43


Post by: Ralis


 SickSix wrote:
Don't expect any new models. And looks like non-apple users will have to wait an indeterminate amount of time.

Oh and expect to be able to make a Riptide your warlord! LOL


No. I very much doubt that you'll have the option to make Riptide a warlord. After all Farsight is supposed to have broken way from the rest of the empire before it came out.

I think people would have a better chance of seeing crisis suits as troops. even though in my opinion it would make more sense to be able to make pathfinders troops especially since they've made them special weapon teams as opposed to scouts and spotters.... heck marker drones are better at marker light spam as they can jump shoot jump...


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 13:46:53


Post by: DaddyWarcrimes


I just hope they elaborate on the Dawn Blade and what it has done to Farsight.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 15:21:40


Post by: Peregrine


Backfire wrote:
I don't understand how these supplements can be said to have been "cut" from the main codex. Compared to 4th edition Tau & Eldar codices, the 6th Edition Codices seem to contain just as much if not more fluff and options for building 'supplement armies' even without said supplements, so the new books are just gravy.


That's exactly the problem. There's no expansion of the (Farsight) fluff in the new Tau codex, just the same old fluff re-printed. Meanwhile Farsight himself has lost the "fluffy" rules and been simplified instead of adding things. It's an obvious missed opportunity to expand on a popular character, and to make a true alternate list (crisis suits as troops?) instead of just a different HQ. At the time it felt like lazy writing, that GW was just re-packaging the existing material to get the codex published as fast as possible. But as soon as the Eldar supplement was released it was pretty obvious that the new Farsight material wasn't there because it was going to be an extra book to buy.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 15:33:17


Post by: Sidstyler


Ralis wrote:
No. I very much doubt that you'll have the option to make Riptide a warlord. After all Farsight is supposed to have broken way from the rest of the empire before it came out.


I very much doubt that will stop GW from making it an option, lol. Trust me, there will be some bs fluff pulled out of their ass to try and explain why the Farsight Enclaves not only have many riptides, but use them way more extensively than the Empire itself.

If I dared I'd even put money down that Farsight gets the option to take a riptide suit himself, with an up-sized Dawn Blade crafted by his own engineers who did extensive research on it and somehow managed to duplicate it.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 16:28:21


Post by: hotsauceman1


Riptide as warlord?
Im liking this idea. But if i was to guess, somehow stealth suits become troops


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 16:46:45


Post by: Kroothawk


 Peregrine wrote:
There's no expansion of the (Farsight) fluff in the new Tau codex, just the same old fluff re-printed.

There is a slight expansion of fluff of the Farsight enclave.

At the moment I don't expect a full supplement like on Iyanden, but we will see.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 17:53:54


Post by: spectreoneone


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptide as warlord?
Im liking this idea. But if i was to guess, somehow stealth suits become troops


Although I wouldn't necessarily count that out on account that GW likes to pull some weird retcons at times, I would see Crisis suits becoming troops before stealth suits.

Riptide as a warlord? I'll pass. Honestly, I think they shouldn't allow the Farsight Enclaves to have Riptides, but that would be counterproductive to selling more of their shiny new gobs of plastic gold.

Despite the price, I'm snatching it up, 'cause hey, it's Tau, and I'll blow my money on that any day. Nevermind that $45-50 doesn't seem all that bad after I dropped $90 on IA3: 2nd Ed. (which is an awesome book for those who like to play Tau or Elysians, but I digress).


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 18:33:45


Post by: warboss


 Grey Therion wrote:
I was at a local tournament today (1750points) and out of 6 Tau players there were only 3 Crisis Suits in TOTAL! The Riptide is just sturdier and easier to use under time pressure environment.

At the previous tournament I tried making a list around Crisis Suits and ended up fighting to see who would get last place!

I am excited to see what they do with the rules in the supplement and I think that it can be a great opportunity for the company to sell more Crisis Suits (and to have mine get un-boxed and out on the field again)!


And all that would have been solved by making the Iridium upgrade a normal support system but that wouldn't sell new kits similar to removing BS4 targetting array upgrades in preference to markerlights (which require actual new models to add in most cases).

I'm going to guess that the Farsight list will have the option of crisis suit troops which was sorely missing from the Empire codex. I was expecting it as a special ability for Farsight frankly.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 18:42:54


Post by: Rented Tritium


We should probably go back and re-examine any farsight related rumors, especially FOC rumors, that we got early in the tau rumor season, as some of them may have come from sources who saw this book without realizing it wasn't the tau codex.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 19:02:40


Post by: Davespil


I'll pass. No desire to send $50 for a slightly altered army list. I can use farsight in my games right now. These supplements are a waste. If they did. say all 7 craft worlds in one book. then it would be a great idea. But one craftworld for $50. People are spending way too much money of fluff. Cause thats mostly what your getting. Same thing with this farsight codex. If I wanted to read crappy writing I'd buy one of their terribly written novels.

If only GW would put their time and energy in to not making crappy failcast models poised on one leg with a sword stiking out the side. Yeah, thats not gonna cause any breakage issues...


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 22:07:00


Post by: Nilok


 spectreoneone wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptide as warlord?
Im liking this idea. But if i was to guess, somehow stealth suits become troops


Although I wouldn't necessarily count that out on account that GW likes to pull some weird retcons at times, I would see Crisis suits becoming troops before stealth suits.

Riptide as a warlord? I'll pass. Honestly, I think they shouldn't allow the Farsight Enclaves to have Riptides, but that would be counterproductive to selling more of their shiny new gobs of plastic gold.

Despite the price, I'm snatching it up, 'cause hey, it's Tau, and I'll blow my money on that any day. Nevermind that $45-50 doesn't seem all that bad after I dropped $90 on IA3: 2nd Ed. (which is an awesome book for those who like to play Tau or Elysians, but I digress).


From the new Tau Codex, someone is feeding Farsight new weapons and prototypes from the Tau Empire. Not only dose Farsight have access to these blueprints, but he now has the manufacturing capabilities to produce these units just like the Tau Empire.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 22:25:11


Post by: Ravenous D


 lord_blackfang wrote:
The funny part is, if Iyanden is anything to go by, that you'll still be able to use Shadowsun in a Farsight army.


I thought that was strange too, the only downside to using Iyanden is that your spiritseers (not warlocks) get Voice of Twilight, and you get more remnants of glory and a new warlord table. You gain the ability to take some very serious buffs that Im positive wasn't entirely thought out.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/01 23:07:25


Post by: Ovion


Sidstyler wrote:
Ralis wrote:
No. I very much doubt that you'll have the option to make Riptide a warlord. After all Farsight is supposed to have broken way from the rest of the empire before it came out.
I very much doubt that will stop GW from making it an option, lol. Trust me, there will be some bs fluff pulled out of their ass to try and explain why the Farsight Enclaves not only have many riptides, but use them way more extensively than the Empire itself.

If I dared I'd even put money down that Farsight gets the option to take a riptide suit himself, with an up-sized Dawn Blade crafted by his own engineers who did extensive research on it and somehow managed to duplicate it.
You say this like it's a bad thing....

Personally, I would go out, buy a second riptide and the inevitable Fartide Conversion Kit (or two for dual wielded swords), and make that sucker up!

That said... I wouldn't pay £30 for the supplement anyway... soooo, there's that.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 15:13:01


Post by: spectreoneone


 Nilok wrote:
 spectreoneone wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptide as warlord?
Im liking this idea. But if i was to guess, somehow stealth suits become troops


Although I wouldn't necessarily count that out on account that GW likes to pull some weird retcons at times, I would see Crisis suits becoming troops before stealth suits.

Riptide as a warlord? I'll pass. Honestly, I think they shouldn't allow the Farsight Enclaves to have Riptides, but that would be counterproductive to selling more of their shiny new gobs of plastic gold.

Despite the price, I'm snatching it up, 'cause hey, it's Tau, and I'll blow my money on that any day. Nevermind that $45-50 doesn't seem all that bad after I dropped $90 on IA3: 2nd Ed. (which is an awesome book for those who like to play Tau or Elysians, but I digress).


From the new Tau Codex, someone is feeding Farsight new weapons and prototypes from the Tau Empire. Not only dose Farsight have access to these blueprints, but he now has the manufacturing capabilities to produce these units just like the Tau Empire.

Yeah, I know about the retcon of that...pretty lame way of putting Farsight on equal footing with the rest of the Tau Empire. I think GW could have been a little more creative than that. I would have liked to see the Farsight Enclave with more homegrown variants of the Crisis suit, or versions tailored to the Enclave's unique fighting style/doctrine. Obviously, as I stated before, stuff like that doesn't sell more of the new top dollar kits.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 15:17:21


Post by: Rented Tritium


 spectreoneone wrote:
 Nilok wrote:
 spectreoneone wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptide as warlord?
Im liking this idea. But if i was to guess, somehow stealth suits become troops


Although I wouldn't necessarily count that out on account that GW likes to pull some weird retcons at times, I would see Crisis suits becoming troops before stealth suits.

Riptide as a warlord? I'll pass. Honestly, I think they shouldn't allow the Farsight Enclaves to have Riptides, but that would be counterproductive to selling more of their shiny new gobs of plastic gold.

Despite the price, I'm snatching it up, 'cause hey, it's Tau, and I'll blow my money on that any day. Nevermind that $45-50 doesn't seem all that bad after I dropped $90 on IA3: 2nd Ed. (which is an awesome book for those who like to play Tau or Elysians, but I digress).


From the new Tau Codex, someone is feeding Farsight new weapons and prototypes from the Tau Empire. Not only dose Farsight have access to these blueprints, but he now has the manufacturing capabilities to produce these units just like the Tau Empire.

Yeah, I know about the retcon of that...pretty lame way of putting Farsight on equal footing with the rest of the Tau Empire. I think GW could have been a little more creative than that. I would have liked to see the Farsight Enclave with more homegrown variants of the Crisis suit, or versions tailored to the Enclave's unique fighting style/doctrine. Obviously, as I stated before, stuff like that doesn't sell more of the new top dollar kits.

Not sure I agree. "They make their own" is a lot less creative than "they are getting them from someone, but nobody knows who." Especially when you include the lifespan stuff, the new fluff really creates a lot of interesting questions.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 16:51:22


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


Why is this ipad only? Does GW not want to make money?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 17:10:24


Post by: Harriticus


GW gets into the day 1 DLC game.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 17:14:10


Post by: Sidstyler


Nah, that would be Iyanden really. It's been a few months since Tau Empire came out so this is just regular DLC. Unless we can prove that the Farsight fluff and rules were purposely withheld for the supplement which, frankly I think we all know that's the case, but still.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 17:14:11


Post by: agnosto


 Harriticus wrote:
GW gets into the day 1 DLC game.


They learned a new trick from the people that made the warhammer quest app; $5 for 1/2 a game and then the privilege to spend more money on the stuff that was released at the same time as then app.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 19:23:59


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


 Rented Tritium wrote:
 spectreoneone wrote:
 Nilok wrote:
 spectreoneone wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptide as warlord?
Im liking this idea. But if i was to guess, somehow stealth suits become troops


Although I wouldn't necessarily count that out on account that GW likes to pull some weird retcons at times, I would see Crisis suits becoming troops before stealth suits.

Riptide as a warlord? I'll pass. Honestly, I think they shouldn't allow the Farsight Enclaves to have Riptides, but that would be counterproductive to selling more of their shiny new gobs of plastic gold.

Despite the price, I'm snatching it up, 'cause hey, it's Tau, and I'll blow my money on that any day. Nevermind that $45-50 doesn't seem all that bad after I dropped $90 on IA3: 2nd Ed. (which is an awesome book for those who like to play Tau or Elysians, but I digress).


From the new Tau Codex, someone is feeding Farsight new weapons and prototypes from the Tau Empire. Not only dose Farsight have access to these blueprints, but he now has the manufacturing capabilities to produce these units just like the Tau Empire.

Yeah, I know about the retcon of that...pretty lame way of putting Farsight on equal footing with the rest of the Tau Empire. I think GW could have been a little more creative than that. I would have liked to see the Farsight Enclave with more homegrown variants of the Crisis suit, or versions tailored to the Enclave's unique fighting style/doctrine. Obviously, as I stated before, stuff like that doesn't sell more of the new top dollar kits.

Not sure I agree. "They make their own" is a lot less creative than "they are getting them from someone, but nobody knows who." Especially when you include the lifespan stuff, the new fluff really creates a lot of interesting questions.


Agreed, it looks like the Tau aren't as unified in the Greater Good as we'd have thought. IMO this adds some nice flavour to the previously (more) monolithic Tau.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 20:15:07


Post by: cincydooley


 agnosto wrote:
 Harriticus wrote:
GW gets into the day 1 DLC game.


They learned a new trick from the people that made the warhammer quest app; $5 for 1/2 a game and then the privilege to spend more money on the stuff that was released at the same time as then app.


Oh bs. There was no trick there, and there was certainly no "1/2 a game." What you paid $6.99 was MORE than a full game with plenty of variety of characters. Get over it.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 20:36:38


Post by: agnosto


 cincydooley wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
 Harriticus wrote:
GW gets into the day 1 DLC game.


They learned a new trick from the people that made the warhammer quest app; $5 for 1/2 a game and then the privilege to spend more money on the stuff that was released at the same time as then app.


Oh bs. There was no trick there, and there was certainly no "1/2 a game." What you paid $6.99 was MORE than a full game with plenty of variety of characters. Get over it.


Retract your claws good madam. Complete game says you; however, it was released with DLC thus the term "day 1 DLC" which as any sane person will tell you is naught but a money grab.

On Topic.
Though I like the idea of these supplements, the pricing and single-source availability are off-putting.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 20:38:18


Post by: cincydooley


You say "money grab" I say extra optional characters.

It's a full game, regardless of Day 1 Characters that you can add as options.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 20:41:45


Post by: agnosto


 cincydooley wrote:
You say "money grab" I say extra optional characters.

It's a full game, regardless of Day 1 Characters that you can add as options.


Sorry to drag this off topic everyone.

Let's disagree on our definition of "full game" and leave it there. To me, if you're developing the "additions" parallel to the entire game, there's no justifiable reason not to include it. I completely understand adding content later and charging a reasonable fee but same day additional content is just a not so subtle way to try and reach in your pocket.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 21:08:22


Post by: Mr.Church13


 agnosto wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
You say "money grab" I say extra optional characters.

It's a full game, regardless of Day 1 Characters that you can add as options.


Sorry to drag this off topic everyone.

Let's disagree on our definition of "full game" and leave it there. To me, if you're developing the "additions" parallel to the entire game, there's no justifiable reason not to include it. I completely understand adding content later and charging a reasonable fee but same day additional content is just a not so subtle way to try and reach in your pocket.


Except for the fact that they were designing it from the beginning as DLC to make some money before the used market takes the profit out. No one's making anyone buy it, and honestly I've never seen a single piece of "Day 1" DLC that was completely neccissary to play or enjoy the game.

Back on topic:
I can't see a comparison to "Day 1" DLC working as the Iyanden suppliment is completely optional and you can run an Iyanden style list (Yriel Included) with just the main book and it still be awesome. Not to mention the Tau Suppliment is definitely not "Day 1" as the dex dropped in April(?).


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 21:21:07


Post by: agnosto


Mr.Church13 wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
You say "money grab" I say extra optional characters.

It's a full game, regardless of Day 1 Characters that you can add as options.


Sorry to drag this off topic everyone.

Let's disagree on our definition of "full game" and leave it there. To me, if you're developing the "additions" parallel to the entire game, there's no justifiable reason not to include it. I completely understand adding content later and charging a reasonable fee but same day additional content is just a not so subtle way to try and reach in your pocket.


Except for the fact that they were designing it from the beginning as DLC to make some money before the used market takes the profit out. No one's making anyone buy it, and honestly I've never seen a single piece of "Day 1" DLC that was completely neccissary to play or enjoy the game.

Back on topic:
I can't see a comparison to "Day 1" DLC working as the Iyanden suppliment is completely optional and you can run an Iyanden style list (Yriel Included) with just the main book and it still be awesome. Not to mention the Tau Suppliment is definitely not "Day 1" as the dex dropped in April(?).


We're going to have to disagree; if it was developed as DLC the whole time then why wasn't it part of the game the day it was released...yeah, money grab. Characters and "expansion" are only optional because they weren't included in the original game because they wanted to charge extra for them. It's fine, it's the latest app business trend, there's no reason to defend it like I'm saying it's dirty, I'm not though I don't like it, but let's be honest about what it is.

It can be viewed as Day 1 because it most assuredly was ready in April or do you think they can write something completely from scratch in a couple of months...though I guess they could with all of the rehashing that their writers do.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 22:08:13


Post by: warboss


Is this thread still even remotely about the Farsight codex? Because it will come out months after the Tau Empire release making any discussion of DAY 1 anything derailing to the subject at hand.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 22:15:56


Post by: catharsix


I'm surprised that no one has made the comparison to the Chapter Approved articles that gave neat fluff and rules for various SM Chapters/CSM Legions/etc. (back in, 2000-2002-ish?)

I thought those were great (if sometimes not always balanced, but then some codecies aren't balanced either). I have seen many here on Dakka lament the move away from things like that. This new supplement system seems like a step back toward that, though with perhaps more content, but a MUCH steeper price tage (compared to the price of a single issue of WD that had the rules you were looking for).

I'd love to see Chapter Approved return, but this policy of price spikes and limiting new content to expensive add-ons seems to be the new model.

Speaking of that model, I wonder if all the sound and fury about GW's various recent actions will actually signify anything. Will it drive away enough customers to hurt the bottom line? To do so it would have to more than offset the additional revenue generated by price hikes and rationing out content in expensive ways...

-C6


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 22:21:27


Post by: BryllCream


I hope fifth edition codexes get some supplement love, though probably not since they'll be invalidated fairly soon.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 22:25:06


Post by: warboss


 catharsix wrote:
I'm surprised that no one has made the comparison to the Chapter Approved articles that gave neat fluff and rules for various SM Chapters/CSM Legions/etc. (back in, 2000-2002-ish?)


As you said, I think those old enough to remember those articles/lists/compilations would likely remember the price that was so much lower for about the same amount of rules. The only thing we have to go on so far is the Iyanden codex and it's got about as much stuff as the Iyanden part of the old Craftworld codex supplement but at over triple the price for about 1/5 the rules (since the old one had all the craftworlds in one book).


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/02 22:48:09


Post by: BryllCream


I can't help but think you're twisting this somewhat. You can't value something algorithmically based on your arbitrary variables.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 00:00:42


Post by: warboss


 BryllCream wrote:
I can't help but think you're twisting this somewhat. You can't value something algorithmically based on your arbitrary variables.


What I can't do is make you or anyone else assign the same value as each person values things differently (fluff, rules, presentation like hardcover and full color vs b&w softcover). I absolutely can value it according to my own personal views.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 00:21:25


Post by: HarryLeChien


Oh c'mon - Craftworld Eldar may have had 5 times the rules but it was a third of the page count, had colour on only 8 pages (not including the end covers) and was soft back. Those things aren't variables but absolutes, you're paying three times the price for three times the page count in hard back and full colour. What value you assign to the content is ofc up to you.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 02:44:03


Post by: uberjoras


I would be pretty pleased with just a couple changes like 'no kroot/vespids/(ethereals?)', crisis/stealth suits moved to troops, and a good deal of additions in wargear etc. I'd be happy if, for example, every shas'vre could take onager gauntlets.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 03:32:05


Post by: gossipmeng


I'm very excited for this .... I was planning on doing some urban colour scheme for my Tau.... but they might end up red.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 04:57:18


Post by: warboss


HarryLeChien wrote:
Oh c'mon - Craftworld Eldar may have had 5 times the rules but it was a third of the page count, had colour on only 8 pages (not including the end covers) and was soft back. Those things aren't variables but absolutes, you're paying three times the price for three times the page count in hard back and full colour. What value you assign to the content is ofc up to you.


Yes, and I stated that above. If the Iyanden book for 6e was instead a Craftworld book with 10 pages of rules (since Iyanden only has 2, I'll extrapolate it out), I'd agree that the cost would justify most of the price increase along with the fancy color pages and hard bound cover. Unfortunately, 2 pages of rules is *not* enough to justify the price for me even if it was bound in Unicorn leather and printed in full color ink derived from dodo bird eggs. I buy the books for the rules and that is the "meat" of the meal for me; the fluff and pretty pictures are the garnish and side items. YMMV.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 06:56:42


Post by: spiralingcadaver


The only times I've ever bought a rulebook not for the rules:
-when I was about to get the rogue trader core set for like $5
-twice with Forge World, and regretted one of those.
-the coffe table books for the chaos factions, the Uplifting Primer, and a couple others. Technically not rules books, but certainly gaming, since they aren't novels or w/e

No way would I spend that much for 2 pages of rules. I'm offended enough to be expected to pay $10 for a No Quarter with some drivel, previews, and 2 pages of theme lists.

The gaming book worth that sort of price with nearly no gaming value is nearly as rare as said unicorn leather.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 06:59:11


Post by: Noctem


Ya, I don't think you're supposed to buy the supplement just for the 2 pages of rules =P it's more if you're interested in more backstory and such.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 07:04:47


Post by: Fafnir


 spiralingcadaver wrote:

No way would I spend that much for 2 pages of rules. I'm offended enough to be expected to pay $10 for a No Quarter with some drivel, previews, and 2 pages of theme lists.

The gaming book worth that sort of price with nearly no gaming value is nearly as rare as said unicorn leather.


I paid less for some of my university textbooks, and some of those I still end up using all the time (I do appreciate those rare gems). It's pretty telling when my university's book store starts to look cheap.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 07:20:53


Post by: Zweischneid


People really need to stop obsessing over the rules. The rules are the least important part of the Iyanden supplement and, as pointed out frequently, not the reason to buy it.

Buy it for the background and history and the historical missions that allow you to re-create the Iyanden background on the table. And to make these missions work, they've also added a few rules... big deal.

It's really more a Crusade of Fire-style book, but build around an actual faction (and their history in the 40K universe) instead of some pointless conflict made up only for Crusade of Fire, which noone ever heard about before.


I really don't see how this is a problem. If you are genuinely interesting in Iyanden (or Farsight); you want that background, whether it has rules or not (for Iyanden at least, as the fluff is pure brilliance, we'll see how it'll go for Farsight). If you aren't interested in Iyanden, there'd be no reason to buy this book, even if it came with several hundred pages of rules, no?

Not to mention that, for games in general, rules should always be less, not more, if humanly possible. A game (gaming supplement) with 20 pages of rules is usually superior to a game (gaming supplement) with 50 pages of rules.



"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 07:27:01


Post by: Noctem


Besides, if you're only interested in the rules, why would you even buy this thing? I'm sure you could have a friend tell you the few rules that are in there =P


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 07:35:12


Post by: Peregrine


 Zweischneid wrote:
If you aren't interested in Iyanden, there'd be no reason to buy this book, even if it came with several hundred pages of rules, no?


Unless you play competitively and want to know what your opponents could have in your army, but don't want to pirate it. It's not a trivial problem when the cost of keeping up with the competition has just doubled (or more, if armies get more than one supplement).

Not to mention that, for games in general, rules should always be less, not more, if humanly possible. A game (gaming supplement) with 20 pages of rules is usually superior to a game (gaming supplement) with 50 pages of rules.


I agree in most cases. The problem is that the price tag of the book is for a codex-size book when many people are just interested in a page or two of rules. If there was an option to buy a rules-only version for $5 people would be a lot happier with it.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 07:37:57


Post by: jonolikespie


 Zweischneid wrote:
People really need to stop obsessing over the rules. The rules are the least important part of the Iyanden supplement and, as pointed out frequently, not the reason to buy it.


See, you say that but I keep seeing this advertised as 'you should have these rules if you want to play a Iyanden themed army'.

And as for the battle missions and stuff in there and the 'Crusade of Fire-style book' comment.. didn't Crusade of Fire suck and does anyone actually play those missions ever?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 09:23:50


Post by: Zweischneid


 jonolikespie wrote:


And as for the battle missions and stuff in there and the 'Crusade of Fire-style book' comment.. didn't Crusade of Fire suck and does anyone actually play those missions ever?


Sure.

No-one cares about Crusade of Fire, because it's an event nobody heard about ever, made up solely for that book. Which is why Iyanden is so much better. It does the same format, but with a string of events/40K history you actually care about (i.e. those related to the Craftworld Iyanden).

Also, the fact that you need about 1000 quid worth of Zone Mortalis stuff to play Crusade of Fire "as intended", but only those 2 pages of extra-rules in the Iyanden book


 Peregrine wrote:


Unless you play competitively and want to know what your opponents could have in your army, but don't want to pirate it.


If you play competitively, wouldn't it be more challenging to not know what your opponents could bring, relying on your finely honed competitive skills instead? Seems like a truly competitively minded person wouldn't want to delude their skills like that.

That said, even if you think you need all the rules (and not in photocopy from a friend), just make sure you'll never go to a tournament that allows Forge World books. Saves you about a thousand bucks right there, more than enough to buy an Iyanden Supplement or 10 for to stay "on top".

 Peregrine wrote:


I agree in most cases. The problem is that the price tag of the book is for a codex-size book when many people are just interested in a page or two of rules. If there was an option to buy a rules-only version for $5 people would be a lot happier with it.


But why would any sane person just be interested in the rules for the sake of the rules, without the background that provides the reason to have these rules in the first place?

 jonolikespie wrote:

See, you say that but I keep seeing this advertised as 'you should have these rules if you want to play a Iyanden themed army'.


You don't. McDonalds advertises their food as healthy and Marlborough advertises their tar-sticks as giving you manly character. It's advertisement.

Yriel, Spiritseers, etc.. are all in the main Eldar Codex. No yellow paint is included with the Iyanden book.

That said, if you want to play an Iyanden themed army.... I would advise you to buy the Iyanden supplement for the Iyanden-themed background!


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 09:38:42


Post by: Sidstyler


 jonolikespie wrote:
And as for the battle missions and stuff in there and the 'Crusade of Fire-style book' comment.. didn't Crusade of Fire suck and does anyone actually play those missions ever?


Yes, it did. And no, they don't. When Crusade of Fire came out the first thing most people asked was "Does it have rules in it?", and when we learned it was just more pointless fluff and unbalanced scenarios to re-enact battles from said pointless fluff, it was ignored. GW promptly sold all 30 copies they produced (slight exaggeration) to the few people who do like that kinda thing, and then reprinted the flyer crap from the book later on for Death from the Skies.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 09:43:15


Post by: Peregrine


 Zweischneid wrote:
If you play competitively, wouldn't it be more challenging to not know what your opponents could bring, relying on your finely honed competitive skills instead? Seems like a truly competitively minded person wouldn't want to delude their skills like that.


You know what would also make the game more challenging? Letting your opponent play a 2000 point army against your 200 point army. Real competition is about having a level playing field with victory decided through better play, not surprising your opponent with rules they didn't know about. So if you want to compete and don't want to steal the book the cost of playing competitively with Eldar in the game just doubled compared to other armies, with no end in sight.

But why would any sane person just be interested in the rules for the sake of the rules, without the background that provides the reason to have these rules in the first place?


I already told you why: because other people might use them, and some of us like to be familiar with what our opponents could bring, not just our own armies.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 09:44:55


Post by: Sidstyler


 Zweischneid wrote:
But why would any sane person just be interested in the rules for the sake of the rules, without the background that provides the reason to have these rules in the first place?


Why would any sane person be interested in the fluff when it's painfully obvious, from GW's many retcons, that they don't even give a gak about the fluff themselves and use it more as a marketing vehicle to sell you new, expensive kits?

Case in point, the Tau riptide. A big, stupid-looking model that doesn't fit Tau battle doctrine at all, so they had to write a little blurb in the new codex with Puretide himself advocating its use. So Tau go from using superior planning and tactics to overcome any foe, to adopting the Imperium's "bigger is better" attitude. How can anyone take this crap seriously anymore?

And as for Iyanden, the rules in the book actually do give you lots of benefits and no drawbacks for anyone wanting to play a wraith-heavy Eldar army, even ones that aren't painted yellow. Technically you can run wraith-heavy with the codex, but when using Iyanden gives you nothing but extra perks for doing so then why would you?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 09:50:07


Post by: Zweischneid


 Peregrine wrote:


You know what would also make the game more challenging? Letting your opponent play a 2000 point army against your 200 point army. Real competition is about having a level playing field with victory decided through better play, not surprising your opponent with rules they didn't know about. So if you want to compete and don't want to steal the book the cost of playing competitively with Eldar in the game just doubled compared to other armies, with no end in sight.


Not my definition of competition, and if it were, there's no "level playing field" in 40K to start with (unless you play a tournament with only a single identical list for everyone). Even if all 40K books were balanced, or striving to be balanced, the rock-paper-scissor nature of a lot of things in 40K makes "competitive 40K" about as sensible as .. well ... "competitive rock-paper-scissor".

That aside, as said, it seems unfair to deprive players around the world who actually/occasionally would want to play missions / games for the joy of the 40K background / historic missions of the option having a page or two of optional rules that give the missions a bit more flavour, only so a few tournament-players suffering from some deluded completionist-obsession can save themselves a few bucks.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 09:57:13


Post by: Sidstyler


 Zweischneid wrote:
That aside, as said, it seems unfair to deprive players around the world who actually/occasionally would want to play missions / games for the joy of the 40K background / historic missions of the option having a page or two of optional rules that give the missions a bit more flavour, only so a few tournament-players suffering from some deluded completionist-obsession can save themselves a few bucks.


I don't think they should be deprived of that, but I can't help but think there's a way to give everyone what they want without making the gamers pay $50 for a book that they'll only get to use two pages of. I'd spend $5-10 on a "rules-only" downloadable .pdf from their website if they'd sell me one, and since they've been releasing all those little cheap rules downloads I imagine they could do that for people with a digital reader easily enough.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 10:00:04


Post by: Peregrine


 Zweischneid wrote:
Not my definition of competition, and if it were, there's no "level playing field" in 40K to start with (unless you play a tournament with only a single identical list for everyone). Even if all 40K books were balanced, or striving to be balanced, the rock-paper-scissor nature of a lot of things in 40K makes "competitive 40K" about as sensible as .. well ... "competitive rock-paper-scissor".


So the solution is to make things even more unbalanced by having surprise rules that you've never seen?

That aside, as said, it seems unfair to deprive players around the world who actually/occasionally would want to play missions / games for the joy of the 40K background / historic missions of the option having a page or two of optional rules that give the missions a bit more flavour, only so a few tournament-players suffering from some deluded completionist-obsession can save themselves a few bucks.


Fortunately there's a solution to this problem: put the rules in the damn codex. We're only having this discussion because GW removed those two pages of rules from the codex so they could sell a second $50 book.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 10:01:34


Post by: Zweischneid


 Sidstyler wrote:


I don't think they should be deprived of that, but I can't help but think there's a way to give everyone what they want without making the gamers pay $50 for a book that they'll only get to use two pages of. I'd spend $5-10 on a "rules-only" downloadable .pdf from their website if they'd sell me one, and since they've been releasing all those little cheap rules downloads I imagine they could do that for people with a digital reader easily enough.


True. And since so many people seem to want to include Forge World in tourneys these days, I hope they include all Forge World rules in that pdf too. Compared to the Forge World cost of being "tourney-prepped" in your sense, a US$ 50,- Iyanden book is pretty much negligible.

Until then, tourney organizers could of course simply disallow Codex Supplements (and, ideally, Forge World) from tournaments that target the more competitive people in the Hobby.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Peregrine wrote:


Fortunately there's a solution to this problem: put the rules in the damn codex. We're only having this discussion because GW removed those two pages of rules from the codex so they could sell a second $50 book.


No. GW put the rules in the Iyanden Book, because the missions that need you to have these rules are ... surprise ... in the Iyanden book.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 10:10:55


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Sidstyler wrote:
I don't think they should be deprived of that, but I can't help but think there's a way to give everyone what they want without making the gamers pay $50 for a book that they'll only get to use two pages of.


Not all that long ago they released that did just that. It's this one. Has the army list, then takes a few pages at the end to give faction specific rules/changes to the main army list. No need for a new book. No need to buy a second book just to play your army.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 10:14:15


Post by: Fafnir


 Zweischneid wrote:

No. GW put the rules in the Iyanden Book, because the missions that need you to have these rules are ... surprise ... in the Iyanden book.


So then they could put the missions in the codex too. Problem solved.

Better yet, they could fold it all into one codex. For $60, I should sure as hell be getting more than 100 pages.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 10:17:02


Post by: Zweischneid


 Fafnir wrote:
 Zweischneid wrote:

No. GW put the rules in the Iyanden Book, because the missions that need you to have these rules are ... surprise ... in the Iyanden book.


So then they could put the missions in the codex too. Problem solved.

Better yet, they could fold it all into one codex. For $60, I should sure as hell be getting more than 100 pages.


True. I would love to see missions and things in the Codex, making them more "story-oriented" and less "text-book-oriented".

If Iyanden (Farsight, etc...) are a success, maybe that'll be the direction it will go one day. One can hope.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 10:31:15


Post by: Peregrine


 Zweischneid wrote:
Compared to the Forge World cost of being "tourney-prepped" in your sense, a US$ 50,- Iyanden book is pretty much negligible.


The difference here is that FW books give a much better ratio of cost to rules quantity. For example, I recently paid ~$100 for the new edition of IA3, which includes all of the FW Tau units and a complete Elysian drop troops army list. The Iyanden supplement costs half as much, but has a lot less than half the content.

No. GW put the rules in the Iyanden Book, because the missions that need you to have these rules are ... surprise ... in the Iyanden book.


So the rules are only legal if you're playing the special supplement missions, and you can't use them with your Eldar army in generic missions?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 10:39:34


Post by: Fafnir


 Zweischneid wrote:

If Iyanden (Farsight, etc...) are a success, maybe that'll be the direction it will go one day. One can hope.


Why the hell would the ever consider doing that? When the fanbase is so ridiculously stupid, enough to shell out $60 twice over, why the hell would you ever consider consolidating what should be one book into one book?

And I don't like using the word 'stupid' to describe people in a sensible discussion, but I honestly cannot find a sensible reason to actually go out spend money to actually buy into that.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 11:14:12


Post by: Zweischneid


 Fafnir wrote:
 Zweischneid wrote:

If Iyanden (Farsight, etc...) are a success, maybe that'll be the direction it will go one day. One can hope.


Why the hell would the ever consider doing that? When the fanbase is so ridiculously stupid, enough to shell out $60 twice over, why the hell would you ever consider consolidating what should be one book into one book?

And I don't like using the word 'stupid' to describe people in a sensible discussion, but I honestly cannot find a sensible reason to actually go out spend money to actually buy into that.


Not nearly as "stupid" as people thinking they need to buy every god-damn publication from GW, even for armies they don't play, just so they are "prepared".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Peregrine wrote:


So the rules are only legal if you're playing the special supplement missions, and you can't use them with your Eldar army in generic missions?


What is legal?

I don't think the GW police is gonna storm your house if you use the rules somewhere else. But why would anyone want to? Without the context of the Iyanden Background, which is in turn brought to life in the missions, they are just random numbers and stats. What's the point? I can write you 10 pages of random rule-swap-gak and "this-item-lets-one-HQ-do-X" for a dollar if that's what you're looking for.

They mean nothing without the context.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 11:26:07


Post by: Peregrine


 Zweischneid wrote:
But why would anyone want to? Without the context of the Iyanden Background, which is in turn brought to life in the missions, they are just random numbers and stats. What's the point? I can write you 10 pages of random rule-swap-gak and "this-item-lets-one-HQ-do-X" for a dollar if that's what you're looking for.


Sigh. Again you ignore the point I've made several times, that for many of us it's about what other people are using. If the Iyanden supplement rules are legal for use in general games outside of the special Iyanden missions then my Eldar opponent might have them in their army, and I want to know what those rules are. I don't really care about the fluff, I just don't want to be surprised by rules I've never seen before.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 11:55:13


Post by: Zweischneid


 Peregrine wrote:


Sigh. Again you ignore the point I've made several times, that for many of us it's about what other people are using. If the Iyanden supplement rules are legal for use in general games outside of the special Iyanden missions then my Eldar opponent might have them in their army, and I want to know what those rules are. I don't really care about the fluff, I just don't want to be surprised by rules I've never seen before.


And I've said repeatedly, that this is not a viable standard to measure a hobby game against. If you impose this completionist-standard upon yourself that you need to absolutely have every last shred of rules GW publishes for 40K, than that is your decision. Your choice. Your cross to bear.

99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of 40K player don't need everything. They need the rulebook, the Codex for the army they are playing and, if they fancy, optional rules, supplements and/or expansions that expand their game.

Likewise, I've never seen a tournament that requires people to have ALL the rules. They usually ask you to have the rules for your army only (and if everyone does that, you will always have the option of looking up your opponent's rules in the rules he/she brought along).



"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 12:04:59


Post by: Mr.Church13


 Peregrine wrote:
 Zweischneid wrote:
But why would anyone want to? Without the context of the Iyanden Background, which is in turn brought to life in the missions, they are just random numbers and stats. What's the point? I can write you 10 pages of random rule-swap-gak and "this-item-lets-one-HQ-do-X" for a dollar if that's what you're looking for.


Sigh. Again you ignore the point I've made several times, that for many of us it's about what other people are using. If the Iyanden supplement rules are legal for use in general games outside of the special Iyanden missions then my Eldar opponent might have them in their army, and I want to know what those rules are. I don't really care about the fluff, I just don't want to be surprised by rules I've never seen before.


So why not have the opponent let you look at his copy of the rules? It's just two pages as you say and not at all hard to digest.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 13:57:26


Post by: ironicsilence


has this "codex" been released yet? Has anyone actually seen the rules in it? Or is it all just guessing and raging?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 14:48:50


Post by: gossipmeng


 Peregrine wrote:
[

Unless you play competitively and want to know what your opponents could have in your army, but don't want to pirate it. It's not a trivial problem when the cost of keeping up with the competition has just doubled (or more, if armies get more than one supplement).


You could always go to your local store and check out the book.... if is only 2 pages of rules after all. Wouldn't take more than 5 minutes to skim it.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 14:51:52


Post by: Ovion


 gossipmeng wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
[

Unless you play competitively and want to know what your opponents could have in your army, but don't want to pirate it. It's not a trivial problem when the cost of keeping up with the competition has just doubled (or more, if armies get more than one supplement).
You could always go to your local store and check out the book.... if is only 2 pages of rules after all. Wouldn't take more than 5 minutes to skim it.
Unfortunately, on this count you can't.
Supplements are direct only. :(

To be honest, it's got 2/3 the content of a regular codex, so really, by rights, it should be 2/3 the cost - and honestly, I'd be OK at £20.
Having looked at Iyanden, it's got a ton of great info and artwork. £30 is just a bit much at the end of the day...


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 14:53:46


Post by: evancich


Is this book digital only or will there be a dead tree version?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 14:54:14


Post by: undertow


 Harriticus wrote:
GW gets into the day 1 DLC game.
Except in this case by 'Day 1' you mean 'Day 60' (or so).


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 14:55:32


Post by: Ovion


The assumption is, it'll be digital, then a few weeks later we'll get it in Direct Only Hardback, same as with Iyanden.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 14:59:19


Post by: OverwatchCNC


Mr.Church13 wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Zweischneid wrote:
But why would anyone want to? Without the context of the Iyanden Background, which is in turn brought to life in the missions, they are just random numbers and stats. What's the point? I can write you 10 pages of random rule-swap-gak and "this-item-lets-one-HQ-do-X" for a dollar if that's what you're looking for.


Sigh. Again you ignore the point I've made several times, that for many of us it's about what other people are using. If the Iyanden supplement rules are legal for use in general games outside of the special Iyanden missions then my Eldar opponent might have them in their army, and I want to know what those rules are. I don't really care about the fluff, I just don't want to be surprised by rules I've never seen before.


So why not have the opponent let you look at his copy of the rules? It's just two pages as you say and not at all hard to digest.


Exactly. This is one of your constant arguments in favor of allowing FW in tournament play, how is it different for the supplements. Not to mention the rules in the Iyanden book, while they take up 2 pages, are hardly 2 full pages worth of rules changes. The number of changes and just how different the rules are from Codex: Eldar is slight. You can literally engage in a conversation on a Forum about the rules supplements and be fully informed, no pirating needed.

From the FW in Tournaments Thread.
 Peregrine wrote:
 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
The reasonable counter to this argument is that Games Workshop sponsors exactly 0 tournaments these days.


But the point is FW rules are part of the game, and excluding them should be treated with the same contempt as the comp-heavy events that do stuff like banning allies or making dedicated transports 0-1 because it "isn't fluffy". The default should be that everything in the standard game is legal, and people don't have to worry about the new Eldar codex being randomly banned because some people don't like it.

For the record, I'm neither for nor against, though I don't like the idea of running into a "Hey, gotcha!" situation unless I pay out the ass for a ton of books I'll never use myself.


How is that any different from the situation with codex armies? Buying every codex in the game to be familiar with the armies you don't play costs even more than buying all the FW books, and somehow people manage to deal with it. Either you borrow them from someone else, you ask to look at the relevant rules before each game, or you pirate them like most people already do. And even if you don't want to do any of those things you can still just read tactics forums and get a pretty good idea of what most competitive-level units can do.

And at least, unlike the SoB "codex", you can buy everything. You're going to be pretty surprised if an SoB player shows up at a tournament and you haven't pirated their codex.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 15:00:46


Post by: rohansoldier


 Ovion wrote:
 gossipmeng wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
[

Unless you play competitively and want to know what your opponents could have in your army, but don't want to pirate it. It's not a trivial problem when the cost of keeping up with the competition has just doubled (or more, if armies get more than one supplement).
You could always go to your local store and check out the book.... if is only 2 pages of rules after all. Wouldn't take more than 5 minutes to skim it.
Unfortunately, on this count you can't.
Supplements are direct only. :(

To be honest, it's got 2/3 the content of a regular codex, so really, by rights, it should be 2/3 the cost - and honestly, I'd be OK at £20.
Having looked at Iyanden, it's got a ton of great info and artwork. £30 is just a bit much at the end of the day...


- The Iyanden supplement is not direct only. My local GW store has copies of it (the guy running it tried to sell me one as he knows I play Eldar).

I would happily pay £30 if the book had around 10-15 pages of fluff and 2-4 pages of rules for each of the unique craftworlds (Ulthwe, Biel Tan, Saim Hann, Alaitoc and Iyanden) like the last Codex Craftworld Eldar did. That to me would be worth the money. Codex Iyanden at £30 is not.

Then again I don't plan to play a fluffy Iyanden Wraith list. If I did, I might be more interested in the background which would make me more likely to buy the book.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 15:11:22


Post by: Ovion


 rohansoldier wrote:
 Ovion wrote:
 gossipmeng wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
[

Unless you play competitively and want to know what your opponents could have in your army, but don't want to pirate it. It's not a trivial problem when the cost of keeping up with the competition has just doubled (or more, if armies get more than one supplement).
You could always go to your local store and check out the book.... if is only 2 pages of rules after all. Wouldn't take more than 5 minutes to skim it.
Unfortunately, on this count you can't.
Supplements are direct only. :(

To be honest, it's got 2/3 the content of a regular codex, so really, by rights, it should be 2/3 the cost - and honestly, I'd be OK at £20.
Having looked at Iyanden, it's got a ton of great info and artwork. £30 is just a bit much at the end of the day...


- The Iyanden supplement is not direct only. My local GW store has copies of it (the guy running it tried to sell me one as he knows I play Eldar).

I would happily pay £30 if the book had around 10-15 pages of fluff and 2-4 pages of rules for each of the unique craftworlds (Ulthwe, Biel Tan, Saim Hann, Alaitoc and Iyanden) like the last Codex Craftworld Eldar did. That to me would be worth the money. Codex Iyanden at £30 is not.

Then again I don't plan to play a fluffy Iyanden Wraith list. If I did, I might be more interested in the background which would make me more likely to buy the book.
My local GW told me that it's direct only (which is also why thrid party stores don't have it), and was complaining because he wanted a proper look at it.
Your local GW must of got it somehow though.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 15:16:30


Post by: Sidstyler


Speaking of which, the US website says Iyanden is shipping in several weeks, so I guess it's available again.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 16:24:13


Post by: OverwatchCNC


Just for clarity again if you're fine with having to pay large amounts of money for FW rules I don't see how you can be against paying less for the Iyanden Supplement. Then again, as you have stated before, no one can be completely familiar with all the rules from all the codices let alone all the codices+FW books so why make mountain out of a mole hill on this one? If you can't be 100% familiar with all the rules anyway that is, again according to you.

Peregrine wrote:
Breng77 wrote:
(as there are what 13 or so FW IA books)


Depends on the army. For my Tau I just need the codex and IA3. And when the codex costs $50 and Riptides are $80 each spending another $80-90 on IA3 isn't a big deal.

 hippesthippo wrote:
Now imagine what it will be like once everyone else has finished buying/painting their IG armies, bc it has only just started.



"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 20:37:42


Post by: Kroothawk


There will be no paper version in July. And ATM I am not sure, if the supplement is in any way as big as the Iyanden one.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 20:44:50


Post by: Peregrine


Re: my supposed "inconsistency" with FW vs. supplements:

1) I'm not arguing that the supplements should be banned. If they say "for normal games" (IOW, not limited to the special supplement missions) then you can take them and should be allowed to use them in tournaments. Just like with FW books the difficulty/cost of getting access to the rules doesn't justify telling people they aren't welcome at events unless they change their perfectly legal army.

2) FW books are a lot more reasonable as a product. Yes they're expensive, but you get a lot of content for that price. For example, for $45 (including shipping) IA:Aeronautica (a pure rules book) compiles 47 units across pretty much every army. For $90 IA3 gives you all of the Tau units and the complete Elysian drop troops list, in addition to 200+ pages of fluff, campaign missions, color schemes, etc. For $50 the Iyanden supplement gives you two pages of rules and 70 pages of fluff. See the difference?

So, my point is not that getting access to the Iyanden rules is impossible, or that they need to be banned. My point is that I hate GW for removing stuff from the codex to release it as day-one DLC and effectively doubling the price of the Eldar codex for much less than double the content. Whether or not you personally need/want the book there are people who want to have a copy of all of the rules for 40k, and GW's new day-one DLC plan is a significant increase in the cost of doing so.

(Of course let's be honest here: many of them will just pirate the book, but it's not exactly hard to imagine day-one DLC pushing more people to say " this" and just pirate everything.)


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 21:31:45


Post by: DarkSoldier


 agnosto wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
 Harriticus wrote:
GW gets into the day 1 DLC game.


They learned a new trick from the people that made the warhammer quest app; $5 for 1/2 a game and then the privilege to spend more money on the stuff that was released at the same time as then app.


Oh bs. There was no trick there, and there was certainly no "1/2 a game." What you paid $6.99 was MORE than a full game with plenty of variety of characters. Get over it.


Retract your claws good madam. Complete game says you; however, it was released with DLC thus the term "day 1 DLC" which as any sane person will tell you is naught but a money grab.

On Topic.
Though I like the idea of these supplements, the pricing and single-source availability are off-putting.

A game is not distributed the moment it's gone gold. There is a lot of time between when the game goes gold and when it reaches shelves. There is also time near the end of the dev cycle when the developers can't just add new content. At that time, code writers and asset creators aren't twiddling their thumbs, they're making DLC content and/or fixing bugs that will be available as soon as possible. Day 1 DLC is not necessarily content withheld with the intent of making the customer pay more; it depends on the attitudes of the developer and publisher.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 21:55:55


Post by: Dysartes


 undertow wrote:
 Harriticus wrote:
GW gets into the day 1 DLC game.
Except in this case by 'Day 1' you mean 'Day 60' (or so).


I believe Day 1 was a reference to the Iyanden book, which was advertised in WD in the Eldar release issue, as opposed to this Farsight "book".


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 23:11:42


Post by: Micky


I'm actually kinda excited about the book, mostly because I'm interested in reading all the fluff. the Farsight faction fluff has always been kinda scarce, restricted to one or two pages of total content in the codex, and I'm really kinda keen to get the whole story behind them.


Another thing... I'm actually kinda excited about the idea of being able to play a Farsight Enclave force, with fluffy and yes admittedly quite minimal (two pages *grumble*) rules to support that, and also without having to take Farsight as my warlord.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 23:23:45


Post by: Nocturus


Does anyone have the date this is supposed to be released?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 23:43:38


Post by: Mr.Church13


There is one thing that kinda bugs me about this whole thing. Do we actually know if the supplement will only contains two pages of rules? I doubt it would be less but it could always be more.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 23:51:51


Post by: warboss


Mr.Church13 wrote:
There is one thing that kinda bugs me about this whole thing. Do we actually know if the supplement will only contains two pages of rules? I doubt it would be less but it could always be more.


Keep an open and optimistic mindset. It may even have 50% more pages of rules than the Iyanden one at no additional cost. Who luvs ya, baby! GW does!


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/03 23:58:01


Post by: Fafnir


 warboss wrote:
Who luvs ya, baby! GW does!


Well, in the same way that a physically abusive partner does.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 06:49:24


Post by: Zweischneid


 Peregrine wrote:


2) FW books are a lot more reasonable as a product. Yes they're expensive, but you get a lot of content for that price. For example, for $45 (including shipping) IA:Aeronautica (a pure rules book) compiles 47 units across pretty much every army. For $90 IA3 gives you all of the Tau units and the complete Elysian drop troops list, in addition to 200+ pages of fluff, campaign missions, color schemes, etc. For $50 the Iyanden supplement gives you two pages of rules and 70 pages of fluff. See the difference?


That is simply not true.

a) Forge World has in its entire history not produced a book even remotely as fun to read as the Iyanden Codex.

b) There are no missing rules in the Eldar Codex. It's written to the exact format of all other 6th Edition Codexes and allows you, among other things, to play an Iyanden Army without trouble.

c) The rules in the Iyanden book would be largely counterproductive in the main Eldar Codex. Quite the opposite. Things like, say, Warlord Traits or Primaris Psyker powers that work on Wraithguards only would've sparked major nerd-rage among people who, say, want to play a Saim-Hann Jetbike army only to have their Warlord end up with a Wraithguard-buffing power.

d) The Iyanden Book gives plenty of missions and a few alternative colour-schemes. And it does NOT give you an alternative list, and does NOT give you rules for new units, so you don't NEED to buy it like you'd need to buy IA3 for an Elysian Drop Troop list or to use a particular Tau Vehicle that isn't in the GW main Codex. I thought that was the point? That is why Iyanden is optional.



"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 07:56:44


Post by: Peregrine


 Zweischneid wrote:
a) Forge World has in its entire history not produced a book even remotely as fun to read as the Iyanden Codex.


That's personal preference. IMO the Iyanden book was nothing special.

b) There are no missing rules in the Eldar Codex. It's written to the exact format of all other 6th Edition Codexes and allows you, among other things, to play an Iyanden Army without trouble.


Of course there are missing rules. The Iyanden rules should have been in the codex, just like C:SM didn't have only Ultramarines rules with supplements for the other chapters.

c) The rules in the Iyanden book would be largely counterproductive in the main Eldar Codex. Quite the opposite. Things like, say, Warlord Traits or Primaris Psyker powers that work on Wraithguards only would've sparked major nerd-rage among people who, say, want to play a Saim-Hann Jetbike army only to have their Warlord end up with a Wraithguard-buffing power.


Only if GW is completely incompetent. It would be trivially easy to make multiple warlord trait tables that you could roll on, a third set of psychic powers, etc.

d) The Iyanden Book gives plenty of missions and a few alternative colour-schemes. And it does NOT give you an alternative list, and does NOT give you rules for new units, so you don't NEED to buy it like you'd need to buy IA3 for an Elysian Drop Troop list or to use a particular Tau Vehicle that isn't in the GW main Codex. I thought that was the point? That is why Iyanden is optional.


Wait, so let me get this straight: the Iyanden book has much less content than IA3 for over half the price and you think this is a good thing?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 08:12:32


Post by: Zweischneid


 Peregrine wrote:


Wait, so let me get this straight: the Iyanden book has much less content than IA3 for over half the price and you think this is a good thing?


It's not an argument about good or bad. The Iyanden books is - in my personal opinion as you say - one of the best books for WH40K in a long, long, very long time. But that might just be me.

Yet your (!) argument was that - starting from an IMO somewhat deluded assumption that there is a necessity to own all rules, even those you don't play personally - there is an implicit pressure on GW's behalf to buy this book.

If that is true, than the pressure to buy the IA3 book, which (unlike Iyanden) actually does include rules necessary to play units which you cannot play straight from the Tau Codex / Imperial Guard Codex, is infinitely greater. If you argue that Iyanden rules could've easily been integrated into the Eldar Codex, than the IA3 rules could've just as easily been integrated into the Tau / Imperial Guard Codex.

Finally, IA books are significantly more expensive than the Iyanden book, so (assuming a need-to-buy-obligation) the financial burden imposed by IA books is significantly greater. This, you keep justifying with the fact that the IA books simply offer quantitatively more rules, even though it is widely acknowledged that in smooth game design, less is usually more as far as rules go.

The fact that Forge World actually needed to write an entire new army list to make Elysians work, rather than using - occam's razor - the standard Imperial Guard list, perhaps with an alternative HQ or a variant Warlord Trait list, is testimony to the vastly inferiour game-developing skills among the Forge World team compared to the GW-studio and the brilliant minimalist approach seen, not least, in the Iyanden book.




"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 08:24:03


Post by: shamikebab


 Peregrine wrote:


Of course there are missing rules. The Iyanden rules should have been in the codex, just like C:SM didn't have only Ultramarines rules with supplements for the other chapters.


So there are missing rules from the Dark Angels, Daemons, Tau and CSM codices then are there?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 08:35:56


Post by: Slayer le boucher


 Zweischneid wrote:
People really need to stop obsessing over the rules. The rules are the least important part of the Iyanden supplement and, as pointed out frequently, not the reason to buy it.

Buy it for the background and history and the historical missions that allow you to re-create the Iyanden background on the table. And to make these missions work, they've also added a few rules... big deal.

It's really more a Crusade of Fire-style book, but build around an actual faction (and their history in the 40K universe) instead of some pointless conflict made up only for Crusade of Fire, which noone ever heard about before.


I really don't see how this is a problem. If you are genuinely interesting in Iyanden (or Farsight); you want that background, whether it has rules or not (for Iyanden at least, as the fluff is pure brilliance, we'll see how it'll go for Farsight). If you aren't interested in Iyanden, there'd be no reason to buy this book, even if it came with several hundred pages of rules, no?

Not to mention that, for games in general, rules should always be less, not more, if humanly possible. A game (gaming supplement) with 20 pages of rules is usually superior to a game (gaming supplement) with 50 pages of rules.



I agree, but in the cases of players who have been around for decades, what does the Iyanden book really add as new Fluff?

Of course there is the 6th retcon of some of the things, and maybe addition to one or two characters fluff and such, but does it provides enough new material for someone who knows the Eldar fluff since Rogue trader or 3Ed?

I mean if they do a World Eaters or Traitor Legions or whatnot supplement, i hardly think that any of the new fluff, will make me buy it, but then again i bought the RoC books for 50$, but their is the collectible and OOP aspect and value of thoses.

So in the end, does the new bits of fluff really appeal and justify that the rules arn't the most important thing in the book?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 08:51:29


Post by: Peregrine


 Zweischneid wrote:
Yet your (!) argument was that - starting from an IMO somewhat deluded assumption that there is a necessity to own all rules, even those you don't play personally - there is an implicit pressure on GW's behalf to buy this book.


And I clearly said that the extra cost is a problem IF you want to have access to all of the rules for 40k. If you're one of the people who don't care about that congratulations, this doesn't apply to you. But the fact that you don't feel the need to own everything doesn't mean that everyone else shares your opinion.

If you argue that Iyanden rules could've easily been integrated into the Eldar Codex, than the IA3 rules could've just as easily been integrated into the Tau / Imperial Guard Codex.


Except that:

1) The IG codex was printed long before supplements existed or the Elysian list was updated for 6th edition. Putting those rules in the IG codex would have been impossible.

2) There's established precedent that FW kind of does their own thing. Continuing to have rules for FW models published in separate books is entirely different from day-one DLC like the supplements.

Finally, IA books are significantly more expensive than the Iyanden book, so (assuming a need-to-buy-obligation) the financial burden imposed by IA books is significantly greater. This, you keep justifying with the fact that the IA books simply offer quantitatively more rules, even though it is widely acknowledged that in smooth game design, less is usually more as far as rules go.


Yes, it's about twice as expensive, but it also contains more than twice as much content (both fluff and rules). If you look at what you get for your money the FW book is a much better deal.

Also, less is more when you're talking about elegant design of single items. It's not at all the same when you're talking about getting one item vs. many items.

The fact that Forge World actually needed to write an entire new army list to make Elysians work, rather than using - occam's razor - the standard Imperial Guard list, perhaps with an alternative HQ or a variant Warlord Trait list, is testimony to the vastly inferiour game-developing skills among the Forge World team compared to the GW-studio and the brilliant minimalist approach seen, not least, in the Iyanden book.


Err, lol? Trying to make the IG codex work as a proper Elysian army would have been an awkward mess. It could be done, but by the time you've made all the necessary changes you've got a document that is much less elegant than just making a separate army list. But I don't know, maybe you think a bunch of Iyanden-style "replace X option with Y option" nonsense is better design than just re-printing everything with X replaced with Y.

Also, "brilliant minimalist design" is a pretty optimistic way of describing it. I prefer "lazy design", since that's exactly what it is: you get a set of add-on rules that even you admit aren't all that important, and no restrictions on taking un-fluffy elements or balancing factors to make you pay a price for getting the new options.



"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 08:52:44


Post by: Zweischneid


 Slayer le boucher wrote:


I agree, but in the cases of players who have been around for decades, what does the Iyanden book really add as new Fluff?

So in the end, does the new bits of fluff really appeal and justify that the rules arn't the most important thing in the book?


Does the 40K Fluff justify one of the most expensive games around?

If the fluff isn't for you, you might as well play Snap, Flip-a-Coin or Rock-Paper-Scissor? No? The entire hobby of 40K (and the money one needs to spend on it) certainly cannot in any way be justified by the rules (really, have you ever seen somebody say they play 40K for the rules? Would you play 40K with abstract Risk-Gaming-Pieces simply because it's such a great set of rules?)

That said, what fluff was there about Iyanden?

Codex Eldar 4th Edition wrote:
“Once the largest and most populous of the craftworlds, Iyanden has been reduced to a shadow of its former glory in a bitter war with the Tyranid race. It was an attack by the Tyranid hive fleet known as Kraken that rang the death knell for the craftworld. Thousands upon thousands of its warriors fell in battle against the Great Devourer. On the verge of utter defeat, Iyanden was saved from extermination by the return of Prince Yriel and his Eldritch Raiders.“


Codex Eldar 6th Edition wrote:
"Once the largest and most populous of all the craftworlds, Iyanden has been reduced to a shadow of its former glory in a bitter war with the Tyranids. Thousands upon thousands of its noble warriors fell in battle against the Great Devourer. On the verge of utter defeat, Iyanden was saved from extermination by the return of Prince Yriel and his Eldritch Raiders."


All "we" knew from the 4th Edition Codex Eldar was that they were intergalactic roadkill too slow to get out of the way of the incoming Nids.

And the 6th Edition Codex Eldar fluff is a celebration of Phil Kelly's incredible copy-&-paste skills.

I think Iyanden's story was a story well worth telling in more detail. But, obviously, if you're not interested in an expansion Iyanden's background, don't buy the book! (duh!) Because you're not missing anything!! Why would you be even interested in the 2 pages of rules in the book if you're not interested in the background in the first place?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 08:53:44


Post by: Peregrine


 shamikebab wrote:
So there are missing rules from the Dark Angels, Daemons, Tau and CSM codices then are there?


Tau are obviously missing the Farsight stuff. When the codex was released I immediately noticed a Farsight-shaped hole in the book that suddenly made sense when the Iyanden supplement was announced. Like the Eldar codex they've pretty obviously cut out that content to sell it as another expensive book.

DA/CSM/Demons, I don't think so, since we haven't heard anything about new supplements for them yet and I haven't seen too many complaints about things that are obviously missing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Zweischneid wrote:
Why would you be even interested in the 2 pages of rules in the book if you're not interested in the background in the first place?


Because you want to know what your opponents are going to bring, or because it makes your Eldar army better at winning. You really need to learn that not everyone shares your priorities and stop assuming that if they don't care as much about the fluff as you do they shouldn't be playing 40k.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 08:58:46


Post by: AlmightyWalrus


 Peregrine wrote:

DA/CSM/Demons, I don't think so, since we haven't heard anything about new supplements for them yet and I haven't seen too many complaints about things that are obviously missing.


Legion rules?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 08:59:00


Post by: Zweischneid


 Peregrine wrote:


Because you want to know what your opponents are going to bring, or because it makes your Eldar army better at winning. You really need to learn that not everyone shares your priorities and stop assuming that if they don't care as much about the fluff as you do they shouldn't be playing 40k.


I know that not everyone shares my priorities. You and I have different opinions.

But it seems ludicrous to ask GW to not publish rules so people not interested in these rules either way would not have to buy them out of some self-imposed rule to "own everything", even though there are actually people out there that do enjoy expanded background rules for, as one example, the Iyanden Craftworld, and would actually want to buy it in order to actually play it.

It's like saying "I don't like Orks and would never play them, but because I "must" buy the book because I may face them on the table, I'd rather have GW discontinue Orks". I believe the "right" for people who enjoy Orks to actually have an Ork Codex would trump the "economical concerns" of the non-Ork-playing-obsessive-book-collectors.

There is, in your words, a "precedent" among tournaments, etc.. to bring the rules for YOUR army and models, and to have those rules available for your opponent to look at if needed. That particular norm has worked very well in the past. It would work like a charm with the Iyanden (or any other) Supplement too.





"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 09:03:51


Post by: shamikebab


 Peregrine wrote:
 shamikebab wrote:
So there are missing rules from the Dark Angels, Daemons, Tau and CSM codices then are there?


Tau are obviously missing the Farsight stuff. When the codex was released I immediately noticed a Farsight-shaped hole in the book that suddenly made sense when the Iyanden supplement was announced. Like the Eldar codex they've pretty obviously cut out that content to sell it as another expensive book.

DA/CSM/Demons, I don't think so, since we haven't heard anything about new supplements for them yet and I haven't seen too many complaints about things that are obviously missing.


But what content is in those books that isn't in the Eldar and Tau books? If they announce a Codex: World Eaters will Codex CSM suddenly have missing rules? Making a supplement doesn't suddenly mean there are things missing from the original codex. What codex has 2 warlord tables, 2 sets of relics etc? It would be a bit odd if Codex Eldar randomly had the rule to make a Wraithknight or Wraithlord your warlord. This is extra stuff, not held back for 'dlc' stuff.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 09:06:05


Post by: Peregrine


 Zweischneid wrote:
But it seems ludicrous to ask GW to not publish rules so people not interested in these rules either way would not have to buy them out of some self-imposed rule to "own everything", even though there are actually people out there that do enjoy expanded background rules for, as one example, the Iyanden Craftworld, and would actually want to buy it in order to actually play it.


I'm not asking them to not publish the rules, I'm asking them to put them in the codex instead of keeping them separate to sell as day-one DLC. If the fluff about Iyanden is so great then they can sell a fluff-only supplement (with special missions if you want) that doesn't contain rules that are used in normal games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 shamikebab wrote:
Making a supplement doesn't suddenly mean there are things missing from the original codex.


The important part is that it's a supplement soon after the codex is released. A supplement for C:SM would be fine, since it's almost certainly new material that couldn't have been in the codex even if GW wanted it to be. But when you have stuff like the Tau codex having minimal fluff and rules for Farsight because they're about to release a $50 Farsight book it really is something missing from the codex.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 09:12:22


Post by: Zweischneid


 Peregrine wrote:
 Zweischneid wrote:
But it seems ludicrous to ask GW to not publish rules so people not interested in these rules either way would not have to buy them out of some self-imposed rule to "own everything", even though there are actually people out there that do enjoy expanded background rules for, as one example, the Iyanden Craftworld, and would actually want to buy it in order to actually play it.


I'm not asking them to not publish the rules, I'm asking them to put them in the codex instead of keeping them separate to sell as day-one DLC. If the fluff about Iyanden is so great then they can sell a fluff-only supplement (with special missions if you want) that doesn't contain rules that are used in normal games.


But why would you separate the rules from the fluff that goes with them? It's like asking GW to publish the rules for Orks in the Chaos Marines Codex? If the Iyanden fluff and the Iyanden missions are in the Iyanden book, why would you separate the rules to a different book?

The Ork rules are also published in the Ork Codex with the Ork fluff, not in the Chaos Space Marine Codex, even though it might be the more economically convenient place for people who'd rather only by the CSM-Dex. The Elysian Rules are published in the IA3 book along with the appropriate fluff, not in the (brand new) Tau Codex or Imperial Guard Codex.

And, frankly, a "normal" game that depends on the Iyanden rules while ignoring the Iyanden background would be anything but "normal". It'd be an atrocity.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 09:16:39


Post by: shamikebab


 Peregrine wrote:


The important part is that it's a supplement soon after the codex is released. A supplement for C:SM would be fine, since it's almost certainly new material that couldn't have been in the codex even if GW wanted it to be. But when you have stuff like the Tau codex having minimal fluff and rules for Farsight because they're about to release a $50 Farsight book it really is something missing from the codex.


Well they have Farsight, what more did the last Tau codex have?

The Iyanden rules would have made no sense in the Eldar codex.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 09:17:17


Post by: Peregrine


 Zweischneid wrote:
But why would you separate the rules from the fluff that goes with them? It's like asking GW to publish the rules for Orks in the Chaos Marines Codex? If the Iyanden fluff and the Iyanden missions are in the Iyanden book, why would you separate the rules to a different book?


That's a ridiculous comparison. Remember that we're talking about "brilliant minimalist design" where Iyanden are Eldar with just a few minor changes? Putting those changes in the Eldar codex as another option makes perfect sense.

And, frankly, a "normal" game that depends on the Iyanden rules while ignoring the Iyanden background would be anything but "normal". It'd be an atrocity.


And guess what: not everyone plays the game like you. I'm glad that you love fluff, but some of us have to deal with things like someone using the Iyanden supplement rules because their Wave Serpent/flamer Wraithguard spam list (built because it wins tournaments, not because it's fluffy) really likes it when the Wraithguard get to shoot and run.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 shamikebab wrote:
Well they have Farsight, what more did the last Tau codex have?


The previous codex didn't have much more (except some "fluffy" rules that most people hated), but a new codex should expand the army, not just copy/paste the same old content from the previous codices. Farsight is really popular fluff-wise with Tau players (far more than any of the other characters) and the lack of new material in the codex felt like a really sad missed opportunity. Except now we know that it was a deliberate choice to sell a $50 Farsight book.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 09:23:41


Post by: shamikebab


Should it? If each codex expanded on the previous then they would eventually become overly complicated.

They could do more fluff but then I think that about every codex.

You were talking about missing rules though. What missing Farsight rules were there from the Tau codex?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 09:29:25


Post by: Zweischneid


 Peregrine wrote:


And guess what: not everyone plays the game like you. I'm glad that you love fluff, but some of us have to deal with things like someone using the Iyanden supplement rules because their Wave Serpent/flamer Wraithguard spam list (built because it wins tournaments, not because it's fluffy) really likes it when the Wraithguard get to shoot and run.



If they do, most tournaments will require them to bring the Iyanden book along for you to look at.

Again, I do understand where you coming from, even if I don't agree.

It's a question of proportionality, not principle. The "need-to-see-all-rules-before-the-tournament" are small sub-group of tournament-players, who in turn are only a sub-group of all 40K players. That this small group (to which you apparently belong, and I apparently don't) should hold the entire 40K publishing process hostage in the way you would prefer is simply far, far, far, far beyond any reasonable commensurability.

There are other "sub-groups" in the hobby, some with gaming-preferences diametrically opposite to the "style" you prefer, and you wouldn't be happy having their style imposed on you either.

The "everyone-brings-the-rules-for-their-own-army-to-a-tournament-so-the-opponent-can-look" is a good solution that has worked well for decades. It has worked for you too in past tournaments, I am sure.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 09:35:59


Post by: Peregrine


 shamikebab wrote:
Should it? If each codex expanded on the previous then they would eventually become overly complicated.


Sure, if you keep doing it forever. But don't forget that the Tau had a 4th edition codex that was criticized for being too limited (especially once terrible internal balance made most of the units unplayable). There was a lot of room to expand, but other than the mandatory-for-6th (pointless and unfluffy) flyers and (pointless and unfluffy) large-base MC there wasn't very much expansion.

You were talking about missing rules though. What missing Farsight rules were there from the Tau codex?


I don't know what GW had in mind. People were hoping that Farsight would make crisis suits troops (with Shadowsun doing the same with stealth suits), but who knows if GW will do it. But whatever the rules end up being I don't think they're going to be anything that couldn't have gone in the codex.

 Zweischneid wrote:
That this small group (to which you apparently belong, and I apparently don't) should hold the entire 40K publishing process hostage in the way you would prefer is simply far, far, far, far beyond any reasonable commensurability.


Where's the hostage-holding? If all the rules are in the codex where they should be (with supplements doing fluff, not standard-game rules) everyone wins. The only loss is the ability to sell an extra $50 book as day-one DLC.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 09:42:32


Post by: Zweischneid


 Peregrine wrote:


Where's the hostage-holding? If all the rules are in the codex where they should be (with supplements doing fluff, not standard-game rules) everyone wins. The only loss is the ability to sell an extra $50 book as day-one DLC.


Quite the opposite. I'd consider it immensely unethical if the Iyanden rules were in the Eldar Codex with a sticky note saying "the missions and background these rules are meant to be used with will come in a different book". THAT would be unethical commercial behaviour.

There is a reason we have "Codexes" in the first place, and not all rules in the BRB. Because the fluff is in the Codexes!!!! Because Warhammer 40K is not Risk and the fluff is what drives the ship.

There is nothing lost by publishing rules wherever and whenever the background these rules are meant to emulate are happened to be published. Hell, I wish each Black Library book would come with a little rules-appendix for one or two things happening in the book.

If you they become relevant in a tourny, people will have to bring them along. Everyone wins.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 09:59:09


Post by: Fafnir


 Zweischneid wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:


Where's the hostage-holding? If all the rules are in the codex where they should be (with supplements doing fluff, not standard-game rules) everyone wins. The only loss is the ability to sell an extra $50 book as day-one DLC.


Quite the opposite. I'd consider it immensely unethical if the Iyanden rules were in the Eldar Codex with a sticky note saying "the missions and background these rules are meant to be used with will come in a different book". THAT would be unethical commercial behaviour.


It's as if you intentionally find the most absent minded and difficult ways to do things.

Take the Iyanden rules, put them in the codex, make them fit with the rest of the book. There's no reason to put a note alluding to a specific expansion book. The basic introductory Iyanden fluff is already in the codex.

There is a reason we have "Codexes" in the first place, and not all rules in the BRB. Because the fluff is in the Codexes!!!! Because Warhammer 40K is not Risk and the fluff is what drives the ship.


If "fluff is what drives the ship," then that would be a perfect excuse to keep it entirely separate from the rules, and to sell it on its own merits.

Of course, if "the fluff is what drives the ship," then it must be a sign of considerable unease with how that ship is being run if the fluff ends up being hilariously and horribly retconned at every possible opportunity.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 10:07:14


Post by: Zweischneid


 Fafnir wrote:


If "fluff is what drives the ship," then that would be a perfect excuse to keep it entirely separate from the rules, and to sell it on its own merits.

Of course, if "the fluff is what drives the ship," then it must be a sign of considerable unease with how that ship is being run if the fluff ends up being hilariously and horribly retconned at every possible opportunity.


Not any more than it must be a sign of considerable unease with how that ship is being run if the rules are constantly retconned every 4 years or so, assuming the rules are what drives the ship.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 10:07:42


Post by: shamikebab


 Fafnir wrote:

Take the Iyanden rules, put them in the codex, make them fit with the rest of the book. There's no reason to put a note alluding to a specific expansion book. The basic introductory Iyanden fluff is already in the codex.


So should all Space Marines be in one rule book? How about having Eldar and Dark Eldar in the same book? I don't recall anyone saying rules were left out of the Space Marine codex when Blood Angels got a codex.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 10:14:57


Post by: Fafnir


Zweischneid wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:


If "fluff is what drives the ship," then that would be a perfect excuse to keep it entirely separate from the rules, and to sell it on its own merits.

Of course, if "the fluff is what drives the ship," then it must be a sign of considerable unease with how that ship is being run if the fluff ends up being hilariously and horribly retconned at every possible opportunity.


Not any more than it must be a sign of considerable unease with how that ship is being run if the rules are constantly retconned every 4 years or so, assuming the rules are what drives the ship.


Well, the rules clearly don't run the ship, because they're garbage.

By GW's own admission, they're in it for the models.

shamikebab wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:

Take the Iyanden rules, put them in the codex, make them fit with the rest of the book. There's no reason to put a note alluding to a specific expansion book. The basic introductory Iyanden fluff is already in the codex.


So should all Space Marines be in one rule book?


Actually, most of them should actually be consolidated into one book. Not much of value would be lost.

How about having Eldar and Dark Eldar in the same book?


Straw men are something everyone can appreciate, really.

I don't recall anyone saying rules were left out of the Space Marine codex when Blood Angels got a codex.


Consider the release windows of the armies in this example. Then consider just how stupid this comparison is.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 10:15:45


Post by: blood lance


 Zweischneid wrote:
Not any more than it must be a sign of considerable unease with how that ship is being run if the rules are constantly retconned every 4 years or so, assuming the rules are what drives the ship.

What? A rules update is a bad thing? Making progress (Debatable I guess) is bad? Considering this is a game, if it had no rules, or basic foundation of how to play, it wouldn't be a game. I'd say rules are driving the ship.
Edit; also, this seems to be going a bit OT, perhaps make another thread for this discussion?
OP; Sounds good. I place my money on the Farsight book being next month or the month after.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 10:19:59


Post by: Zweischneid


 Fafnir wrote:


Well, the rules clearly don't run the ship, because they're garbage.

By GW's own admission, they're in it for the models.


If the rules are garbage, and explicitly not the focus of the company, why are you so obsessed with having "all the rules" (and GW releasing rules in a way that makes it easy for you to "get them all").

At the very least, you should probably be obsessed with having "all the models", if you need to have some form of "must-have-it-all" obsession at all and the models are, by GW's own admission, the core of the whole thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
blood lance wrote:

What? A rules update is a bad thing? Making progress (Debatable I guess) is bad?


I don't think a rules update is a bad thing, just like I don't think a fluff update is a bad thing. Quite the opposite. Lazy copy-&-paste Codexes that don't add anything new (e.g. the 6th Edition Eldar or Daemons Codex) are probably the ones GW shouldn't have updated. The books that actually do something new and creative with the fluff (Necrons, Iyanden) are the ones that are the most enjoyable to read.

blood lance wrote:

Considering this is a game, if it had no rules, or basic foundation of how to play, it wouldn't be a game. I'd say rules are driving the ship.


Well, I'd argue that for people looking for good rules, there are millions of alternative games out there with far better rules, far lower entry-costs, a far better organized tournament-circus, often with far higher prize-money, etc... . If that is your priority, why are you playing 40K?




"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 10:24:30


Post by: Fafnir


I don't play GW games anymore, but that doesn't mean I want to not play GW games anymore.

GW splitting their rules into supplements in order to push people to buy even more ridiculously overpriced books is only serving to make it ever more difficult to see a point where I could consider coming back to play GW's games. It's a move in a direction that is bad for gamers.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 10:28:31


Post by: Zweischneid


 Fafnir wrote:
I don't play GW games anymore, but that doesn't mean I want to not play GW games anymore.


But why do you want to play 40K?

If Games Workshop were to publish a "rules-only" edition with only the rules, and 20 fluff-free army lists (red army, blue army, fast army, horde army, floaty army), all as a free pdf and to be used with US$ 0.01 coloured plastic counters, would you jump back in?

What's the appeal of 40K without the fluff (and the models that originate from the fluff)?

What exactly is in the 40K rules (!) that makes it worth spending hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, if you could instead just pick up a US$ 10,- Chess Set or a used box of Risk or Monopoly on eBay and play "competitively" with some of the best players in the world for many ten-thousands of dollars (or hundred-thousands for chess) of prize money?



"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 10:30:22


Post by: shamikebab


I think the problem is people seem to be under the impression that these supplementary codices are compulsory. Codex Eldar and Codex Tau are complete codices, just as Codex Space Marines is a complete codex. You don't need Iyanden to play Eldar (You don't even need Iyanden to play a fluffy Iyanden list!) It's just an optional extra for fans that want to read more fluff of that craftowlrd/chapter/sect, a few missions and some items and rule modifiers for flavor.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 10:33:33


Post by: Zweischneid


 shamikebab wrote:
I think the problem is people seem to be under the impression that these supplementary codices are compulsory. Codex Eldar and Codex Tau are complete codices, just as Codex Space Marines is a complete codex. You don't need Iyanden to play Eldar (You don't even need Iyanden to play a fluffy Iyanden list!) It's just an optional extra for fans that want to read more fluff of that craftowlrd/chapter/sect, a few missions and some items and rule modifiers for flavor.


Well, the argument was that some people on this forum felt it was compulsory to buy the Iyanden Supplement (and the Eldar Codex) despite not even playing Iyanden or Eldar at all.

Is the Iyanden book compulsory to play an Iyanden army? I think not, but it's a different argument.

The ludicrous argument was that some people feel GW somehow "forces" them to buy Iyanden, even though they (competitively) play, say, Chaos Space Marines.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 11:15:29


Post by: jonolikespie


 Zweischneid wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:
I don't play GW games anymore, but that doesn't mean I want to not play GW games anymore.


But why do you want to play 40K?

If Games Workshop were to publish a "rules-only" edition with only the rules, and 20 fluff-free army lists (red army, blue army, fast army, horde army, floaty army), all as a free pdf and to be used with US$ 0.01 coloured plastic counters, would you jump back in?

What's the appeal of 40K without the fluff (and the models that originate from the fluff)?

What exactly is in the 40K rules (!) that makes it worth spending hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, if you could instead just pick up a US$ 10,- Chess Set or a used box of Risk or Monopoly on eBay and play "competitively" with some of the best players in the world for many ten-thousands of dollars (or hundred-thousands for chess) of prize money?


I'm sorry but that looks like a blatant strawman argument to me.
Yes fluff is important, I don't think anyone here has argued that they should release books without fluff.

The point Fafnir was trying to make (and you seem to have tried to ignore) is that GW have turned 40k into something he no longer wants to play. I am in the exact same boat here, I like the 40k fluff, the game was my first real wargame and I want to like it, but with the way GW are treating it I can't get excited about it.

That isn't going to change any time soon if GW keep doing things like releasing these codex supplements. In Australia they are charging $124 for the rulebook, $84 for a codex and now $84 for a codex supplement. I am not getting back into any game that costs me $293 in rules alone. If they simply added most of the Iyanden fluff and all 2 pages of rules to the Eldar codex then it might actually justify the price of it to begin with but all I see looking at this is GW trying to squeeze more money out of people for rulebooks despite repeatedly claiming to be a model company, not a rules company whenever someone pointed out the rules are not as good as other games on the market.

Also everyone saying you don't NEED that book is right. You don't need the Iyanden book to play a Iyanden army. But what happens then the new Marine codex comes out and you can no longer take bikes as a troop choice without the White Scars supplement? Then you DO need it.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 11:23:58


Post by: shamikebab


Well now you're just guessing, Codex Eldar let's you take Wraithguard as troops without having to buy Codex Iyanden, so surely there is as much chance that Codex Space Marines will let you take bikes as troops?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 11:26:18


Post by: Zweischneid


 jonolikespie wrote:


The point Fafnir was trying to make (and you seem to have tried to ignore) is that GW have turned 40k into something he no longer wants to play. I am in the exact same boat here, I like the 40k fluff, the game was my first real wargame and I want to like it, but with the way GW are treating it I can't get excited about it.


Well, the point I keep hearing is that the way they would like (!) GW to go about make 40K again a game they "want to play", is to draw a more stringent separation between the "rules-publications" and the "fluff-publications". So it is not a straw-man argument, unless you have some credible argument on why anyone would want those rules by themselves, separate from the fluff, which would presumably depend on some quality that is intrinsic to the rules themselves, and not the fluff. I fail to see this quality in the 40K rules, hence why I am asking you (and others).

For a game build around fluff, it would seem counter-productive and unnecessarily obfuscate to separate the two. If the fluff is important to you, as you claim, you'd see the ludicrousness of trying to separate out the game rules from the fluff for a game that thrives on the appeal of its fluff (and not on the appeal of its sleek game-rules independent/separate of its fluff).

I am not saying GW doesn't do (a lot of) things wrong, or that their prices couldn't be different. But if they release some 50 pages of Iyanden fluff, than that is the place the Iyanden rules should be too!!

If they don't release more in-depth Iyanden fluff, there'd be no point to have more in-depth Iyanden rules in the first place. Not even in the Eldar Codex. They'd just be rules without a purpose.

 jonolikespie wrote:


Also everyone saying you don't NEED that book is right. You don't need the Iyanden book to play a Iyanden army. But what happens then the new Marine codex comes out and you can no longer take bikes as a troop choice without the White Scars supplement? Then you DO need it.


If that will be the case with a White Scars supplement, I'll be with you on that point.

At this point in time, I see GW moving into the opposite direction, away from things like Death from the Skies (which was fully guilty of your complaints) and towards things like the Iyanden Book, which explicitly has only optional, mission-inspired "flavour" rules that are not needed to play Iyanden, while leaving all the "essential" Iyanden stuff (Yriel, Wraithguard troops, etc..) in the main Eldar book.




"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 12:09:56


Post by: Therion


At this point in time, I see GW moving into the opposite direction

Look, this hobby (GW gaming) is absolutely stacked full of conflicting wants and needs. Some want a tournament game, some want a beer & pretzels game. Some want huge models, some want rank and file maneouvring. Some want player involved skill like guessing distances, some want things to be as automatic as possible. Some like random 'cinematic' events, some like everything to be as predictable as possible.

Clearly, some people like Apocalypse, since GW thinks that's where the money is at. I, as a 22 year veteran of playing GW games, think that Apocalypse is a laughable, travesty of a game. I also think allies and fortifications were an idiotic thing to add to 40K, and once they do the same to Warhammer Fantasy they will deliver the killing blow to that game and any competitive circuit it used to have. However, clearly, some people disagree with me, since they think beer & pretzels games where every toy from your bitz box can play for your army is cool and where some spell from a dusty tome removes entire table pieces without anyone being able to counter. HAHA look I killed three dozens of your models with my automatically hitting super duper stratagem cards! HAHA! Yeah, I'm not laughing, but sure enough hundreds of people disagree with me.

Likewise, some people don't have a problem with the way GW prices things. None at all. They look at the costs of other hobbies available to them and consider GW gaming rather cheap. Some people don't agree and have left the hobby because of the pricing.

In the big picture of things what difference do you think it makes whether you agree with Codex: Iyanden or Farsight Enclave or not? GW decides it wants to add 1 paragraph of rules in a 50 dollar book then that's what GW will do. There are people this won't affect at all, people who are fine with this, and people who dislike it, but it'll be just like the thousand other things wrong and right in this hobby. Is it a big deal in this mess? I doubt it.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 12:20:58


Post by: BrookM


BL just put this on-line:



"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 12:39:41


Post by: Sidstyler


That looks kinda cool. Not liking how this looks like a "digital only" release, though, because this is a release I would have actually been interested in picking up as a physical book. I'm not buying a fething iPad for this.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 12:49:50


Post by: Oaka


I'm looking forward to this release, if the fluff is as extensive as the Iyanden supplement it will be a good read. There is so much left-to-the-imagination stuff about Farsight that he's one of the more interesting variances in an otherwise controlled Tau empire. I'm also interested in seeing whether there will be any new models/units that accompany the release, or whether it will be just new rules to add to the existing Tau codex. I am hoping for new units, because I have had my fingers crossed for a Codex: Kroot for several years now, and I could only see it happening if precedence is set for new unit entries in a codex supplement. Iyanden didn't have this, when it could have been easy to add an Iyanna or Wraithseer unit entry and model with the codex release, so I don't feel too optimistic that these codex supplements will be used to introduce new sculpts.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 13:28:34


Post by: Sidstyler


There are some cool things they could do for this release, but likely won't. They released Farsight and direct-only shoulderpads in Finecast with the Tau release and I expect that's all we'll get.

They won't release a new battlesuit kit, because I doubt even GW is willing to risk pissing people off that much. Tau players were waiting years for a Tau update in hopes it would also mean a redesigned crisis suit kit to go with it, instead we got a repack of the old, gakky suits. Imagine how much rage there will be if a mere two months after the fact the "real" kit comes out and the repack was just an obvious attempt to reduce stock before putting the new one out there. Then again maybe they don't care and they just assume new and old players alike will flock to stores (their stores, no others, of course) to buy the new kit even if they haven't finished assembling the ones they bought weeks ago. In any case I doubt we'll see new kits or characters anyway since none of that came out with the Iyanden supplement.

The best anyone can hope for is more Finecast conversion bits, maybe alternate heads, shields, or things like shoulder pads/armor for the existing crisis suit kit to convert Farsight's bodyguards or just generic Enclave suits with. Farsight is supposed to be using an older mark of battlesuit with customized armor and other enhancements from his own engineers so it would be kinda cool if you could convert other suits up to sort of match him.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 13:58:58


Post by: Savageconvoy


This may be a bit stupid of a question, but... why would you pre-order an e-book? Are you worried they are going to run out of internets?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 14:03:20


Post by: Sidstyler


Considering how GW has been lately I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow "ran out" of downloads and there was a 4-6 week wait to get more.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 14:06:13


Post by: Savageconvoy


They will only run out of the limited collectors edition digital codex. It's the same book, but with different cover art and a modified price to reflect such quality.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 14:48:26


Post by: gossipmeng


Well at least we have some concrete information now, was getting sick of reading the debate on whether or not codex supplements touch us inappropriately.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 15:14:31


Post by: Amun-Rom


Have we been able to confirm if this will have no physical release? That seems like that would be a huge mistake. If I'm forced to buy an iPad in order to have access to 40k material, I honestly will sell my entire collection and never touch GW again.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 15:20:12


Post by: Fenrir Kitsune


 Amun-Rom wrote:
Have we been able to confirm if this will have no physical release? That seems like that would be a huge mistake. If I'm forced to buy an iPad in order to have access to 40k material, I honestly will sell my entire collection and never touch GW again.


I highly doubt that you will. Hyperbole through and through.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 15:21:01


Post by: SickSix


 Savageconvoy wrote:
This may be a bit stupid of a question, but... why would you pre-order an e-book? Are you worried they are going to run out of internets?


Exalted. But then again this is GW we are talking about.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 15:50:29


Post by: UltraPrime


That always makes me smile. Adding '...but then again, this is GW' to justify anything you like never gets old!


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 16:18:37


Post by: Shandara


Well, they may believe this Interweb thing is a passing fad, so keeping it limited ensures they won't be left with unsellable digital codexes!


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 16:22:01


Post by: gossipmeng


On warseer I saw that the text reads: "Independence from the empire. Join the rebellion."


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 18:16:53


Post by: MajorStoffer


 Shandara wrote:
Well, they may believe this Interweb thing is a passing fad, so keeping it limited ensures they won't be left with unsellable digital codexes!


And if it doesn't sell well, they might have to destroy the product to ensure no one knows it didn't sell well. Therefore, GW will, logically, destroy the internet.

Or better yet, they'll make their own Citadel FineWeb. It's not like it could be any worse than Internet Explorer.





More seriously, I'm rather dismayed that they publicly stated they're going to increase support for non-Apple digital products, with slightly lower prices no less, and then a Farsight expansion, which is a damned sight more interesting, and probably has a lot more potential sales volume than Iyanden is apple-only.

Hey, uhm, GeeDubs, I like most of your models, I like your game, but I'll sooner prance around town naked on a purple pony screaming "I am the chosen one!" to everyone in sight than buy an iPad for your supplements.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 18:58:35


Post by: Emode


I'd be more interested in reading the fluff than using the rules, but I dont think I will drop the money on it. Am I the only one that thinks you should get a code to download the i-pad version for free when you buy the hard copy? I feel robbed paying £30 for the book, I would spend it on an app.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 19:20:30


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


If they gave a copy of the download along with the hardcover lots of folk would then sell the book (brand new) second hand

so although it would be cool, it's not going to happen

(it doesn't even happen for much cheaper ordinary fiction)



"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 21:20:48


Post by: Sidstyler


Yeah, and lots of people could buy the book, scan it, make their own .pdf, and then sell it on second hand, no? So if that's what they're afraid of then they might as well stop selling books entirely.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 21:31:38


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Well they could do, but then they'd be criminals (even if they don't see themselves that way)

If they gave away a digital copy with the physical copy no crime would be committed and at least some are deterred by not wanting to break the law


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 22:03:12


Post by: Gorlack


Updated the OP with the picture... Weird that this gets so little hype and weird that it's to be released on the same date as Apoc - makes me fear a non physical copy is the route they are taking.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 22:16:04


Post by: overtyrant


Yeah, you bad criminals lol!

On a serious note is there an actual law to stop you scanning something you own? I would quite frankly be surprised if there was, I'm sure its only if you 'share' it online, so if you keep it for personal use, where's the harm?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 22:17:47


Post by: warboss


Obviously the answer could vary significantly depending on the country but at least in the US I believe it's ok for you to copy it for your own personal use but not to disseminate it.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 22:31:27


Post by: ph34r


 Sidstyler wrote:
Yeah, and lots of people could buy the book, scan it, make their own .pdf, and then sell it on second hand, no? So if that's what they're afraid of then they might as well stop selling books entirely.
Yeah, that's illegal and takes a lot of effort so it's really not the same.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 22:33:21


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


overtyrant wrote:
Yeah, you bad criminals lol!

On a serious note is there an actual law to stop you scanning something you own? I would quite frankly be surprised if there was, I'm sure its only if you 'share' it online, so if you keep it for personal use, where's the harm?


In the US I think it's ok under their 'fair use' doctrine (but I think it would have to be you making a copy of your book, not for example grabbing a download from a torrent site just because you own the physical copy)

In the UK it's not allowed (even if most people think it is)


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/04 23:42:37


Post by: Micky


Considering Iyanden started as iPad only and then a physical book came later, its reasonable to assume this will be the same.

I don't expect any new models (maybe some conversion bits if we're lucky), but if there's some slight mods to wargear and some different warlord traits and that sort of thing, I'm gonna support that. And yes, of course it costs too fething much =P

I'll repeat what I said earlier... I'm excited about the possibility / promise of being able to field a Farsight Enclave force that doesn't necessarily have to include Farsight himself. The thing where its the special character that changes your list always bugged me.

It's the same with Marines, with all those special characters being required for alternate chapters to even have access to their own rules. It's nonsense.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 03:45:59


Post by: HoverBoy


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Well they could do, but then they'd be criminals (even if they don't see themselves that way)

If they gave away a digital copy with the physical copy no crime would be committed and at least some are deterred by not wanting to break the law

Um you might wanna recheck your laws, reselling the book is fine, scanning it is also fine unless you then try to sell the scan.
Once you buy it it's your property and you're free to do whatever with it, we all saw what trying to do things otherwise got Microsoft – hate and rage.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 04:02:00


Post by: Trozen


 Micky wrote:
Considering Iyanden started as iPad only and then a physical book came later, its reasonable to assume this will be the same.

I don't expect any new models (maybe some conversion bits if we're lucky), but if there's some slight mods to wargear and some different warlord traits and that sort of thing, I'm gonna support that. And yes, of course it costs too fething much =P

I'll repeat what I said earlier... I'm excited about the possibility / promise of being able to field a Farsight Enclave force that doesn't necessarily have to include Farsight himself. The thing where its the special character that changes your list always bugged me.

It's the same with Marines, with all those special characters being required for alternate chapters to even have access to their own rules. It's nonsense.


Man I agree. I like the Farsight Enclave, but I do not like fielding Farsight. I hope there are options that make it distinctive without fielding him.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 04:03:55


Post by: hotsauceman1


Please please PLEASE be on android, I may only have a phone but I want it.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 04:11:48


Post by: Fafnir


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Please please PLEASE be on android, I may only have a phone but I want it.


Hah!


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 09:19:55


Post by: Kroothawk


 Micky wrote:
Considering Iyanden started as iPad only and then a physical book came later, its reasonable to assume this will be the same.

Iyanden iPad and book version were announced the same time and release dates only a week apart.
No Farsight book in sight. So it is not the same. I suspect, the Farsight thing is much much thinner, maybe the price will tell.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 12:41:59


Post by: Sidstyler


 HoverBoy wrote:
Once you buy it it's your property and you're free to do whatever with it


Not in America, ironically.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 12:45:01


Post by: HoverBoy


 Sidstyler wrote:
 HoverBoy wrote:
Once you buy it it's your property and you're free to do whatever with it


Not in America, ironically.

For the love of god people, what the hell are you letting your government do over there!


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 13:00:31


Post by: Yonan


 HoverBoy wrote:
 Sidstyler wrote:
 HoverBoy wrote:
Once you buy it it's your property and you're free to do whatever with it


Not in America, ironically.

For the love of god people, what the hell are you letting your government do over there!

What's even worse, is that we're letting their government do it over here too, somewhat.

In Australia you are legally allowed to format shift a physical book you own into a digital copy. If you no longer have the physical copy, you must delete the digital copy. You have to do the scanning yourself - using a version scanned from a different copy of the same book doesn't count and is still illegal. Good luck proving it though, so you should be sweet.

I'd be all for some reasonably priced digital copies.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 13:39:47


Post by: chaos0xomega


So, I just combed through 6 pages of debate about the merits (or lack thereof) of supplemental codecies, can someone point me to where the actual rumors about the contents of this book (/pdf thing) are? Any rules rumors whatsoever? Any fluffy rumors at all? No?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 13:43:59


Post by: Sidstyler


No, that image on the previous page is literally all we have right now.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 13:44:29


Post by: ajsnips44


Please God....please let crisis be troop choices


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 13:47:38


Post by: Gorlack


 Sidstyler wrote:
No, that image on the previous page is literally all we have right now.


While it isn't much more, the July White Dwarf did have this text (also in the first post):

Commander O'Shovah is a maverick, a greatly admired military leader who has broken ranks with the Tau Empire and carved out a highly militarised region on the edge of Tau space, known as the Farsight Enclave.

This expansion for Codex: Tau Empire, available for iPad, explores the breakaway Farsight Enclave in greater detail than ever. It contains new background, a timeline of events, rules for using your Tau Empire collection and a glorious gallery of Citadel miniatures painted in the colours of the Farsight Enclave by the 'Eavy Metal team and the Design Studio army painters. This is the perfect compaion for your Tau Empire codex on the iPad.


But besides that we have neither any rumours, nor any actual information.


The only other thing is a rumour from before the Tau codex was released that O'Shovah would make Crisis as troops in the new codex, and since it didn't happen some people are wondering if the rumour monger mixed up the supplement with the real codex. But it's speculation at best to assume that it's included in this supplement (though I bet it would make it sell!).


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 14:19:56


Post by: Sidstyler


Oh yeah, definitely...though kind of an odd marketing move considering that it looks like there won't be any insanely overpriced $50 hardcover book to push this time around?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 14:25:06


Post by: chaos0xomega


Yeah, assuming there were a couple dozen pages of actual fluff I might actually pay $50 for a hardcover of this one... Iyanden? Not so much.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/05 16:13:26


Post by: Aeroroot


I'd probably buy it if it came out in hardcover. I'm more in this game for the painting and fluff than anything else. Theres also a sense of "completeness" if you will from having all the rulebooks of a race, and I would rather have a hard copy than a digital one at the moment. I have serious issues with GW (I think I am not alone in that), but I can understand that it's a business model, not a personal vendetta (though my wallet tells me otherwise). I would be surprised if they didn't come out with a hardcover codex suppliment to order, since it sounds like the Iyanden one sold so well. Maybe it just isn't enough fluff to make an entire book? If so, that doesn't bode well for any other future suppliments in my opinion.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/06 02:45:57


Post by: FearPeteySodes


ajsnips44 wrote:
Please God....please let crisis be troop choices


So many times this!


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/06 18:31:21


Post by: Archonate


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptides as troops.

Not quite yet, but this is the inevitable future that will bring the galaxy under Tau rule.
A Riptide for every Fire Warrior.

Get with the program GW. Android is way ahead of Apple by virtue of the simple fact that it's not NEARLY as proprietary.
Android compatibility will cover a lot more bases, accessibility-wise, than Apple compatibility.
I would buy this if it were on Android. I highly doubt I'm the only one.
Nobody is going to drop the Benjamins for an iPad just so they can have your new book. (Especially when they have superior tablets which cost less.)


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/06 20:35:18


Post by: cincydooley


 Archonate wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptides as troops.

Not quite yet, but this is the inevitable future that will bring the galaxy under Tau rule.
A Riptide for every Fire Warrior.

Get with the program GW. Android is way ahead of Apple by virtue of the simple fact that it's not NEARLY as proprietary.
Android compatibility will cover a lot more bases, accessibility-wise, than Apple compatibility.
I would buy this if it were on Android. I highly doubt I'm the only one.
Nobody is going to drop the Benjamins for an iPad just so they can have your new book. (Especially when they have superior tablets which cost less.)


This is a tired argument and is all based on personal preference. That proprietary format, as has been discussed MANY times, is one of the primary reasons for GW to launch products on iOS.

Plenty of people "drop the Benjamin's" for an iPad for tons of other reasons. Whatever superiority you allude to is, again, purely based on personal preference.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/06 20:55:10


Post by: Ovion


 cincydooley wrote:
 Archonate wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptides as troops.

Not quite yet, but this is the inevitable future that will bring the galaxy under Tau rule.
A Riptide for every Fire Warrior.

Get with the program GW. Android is way ahead of Apple by virtue of the simple fact that it's not NEARLY as proprietary.
Android compatibility will cover a lot more bases, accessibility-wise, than Apple compatibility.
I would buy this if it were on Android. I highly doubt I'm the only one.
Nobody is going to drop the Benjamins for an iPad just so they can have your new book. (Especially when they have superior tablets which cost less.)


This is a tired argument and is all based on personal preference. That proprietary format, as has been discussed MANY times, is one of the primary reasons for GW to launch products on iOS.

Plenty of people "drop the Benjamin's" for an iPad for tons of other reasons. Whatever superiority you allude to is, again, purely based on personal preference.
Actually, no - there are plenty of better tablets (spec wise, features wise) that cost less than the 'equivalent' ipad.

It's kind of apples thing, costing between 50% and 600% more than the equivalent not-apple product.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/06 21:45:33


Post by: cincydooley


 Ovion wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
 Archonate wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptides as troops.

Not quite yet, but this is the inevitable future that will bring the galaxy under Tau rule.
A Riptide for every Fire Warrior.

Get with the program GW. Android is way ahead of Apple by virtue of the simple fact that it's not NEARLY as proprietary.
Android compatibility will cover a lot more bases, accessibility-wise, than Apple compatibility.
I would buy this if it were on Android. I highly doubt I'm the only one.
Nobody is going to drop the Benjamins for an iPad just so they can have your new book. (Especially when they have superior tablets which cost less.)


This is a tired argument and is all based on personal preference. That proprietary format, as has been discussed MANY times, is one of the primary reasons for GW to launch products on iOS.

Plenty of people "drop the Benjamin's" for an iPad for tons of other reasons. Whatever superiority you allude to is, again, purely based on personal preference.
Actually, no - there are plenty of better tablets (spec wise, features wise) that cost less than the 'equivalent' ipad.

It's kind of apples thing, costing between 50% and 600% more than the equivalent not-apple product.


And again, "better" is entirely subjective. Some prefer to pay for the stable platform, access to iTunes, etc.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/06 22:23:01


Post by: kelewan


I have an iPhone and an iPad I have owned android and I would say that I think they are sh*t so that's my opinion

Back to topic,

I'm quite interested to this supplement and I hope that there is some battles that would allow me to use shadowsun and farsight together. I'm hoping for a chaos supplement to follow


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/06 22:43:15


Post by: Azazelx


 Peregrine wrote:
Can't say I'm surprised by this. It was incredibly obvious that there was going to be a Farsight "supplement" the moment the Eldar one was announced. But I'm still not going to reward GW for cutting material from the codex just so they can sell it separately later.


They're starting to go the way of Day-1 DLC...


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/07 10:10:15


Post by: blood lance


 Azazelx wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
Can't say I'm surprised by this. It was incredibly obvious that there was going to be a Farsight "supplement" the moment the Eldar one was announced. But I'm still not going to reward GW for cutting material from the codex just so they can sell it separately later.


They're starting to go the way of Day-1 DLC...

The Iyanden one was definitely stuff taken out of the codex. Stuff in that book could have easily been in the eldar codex. The Farsight Enclaves, one of the most under developed concepts in 40k kind of deserve a book of their own. Ill hate the price, but I'll get it if its in book format. If it isn't, they're idiots.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/07 11:00:23


Post by: UltraPrime


I think this thread is now going in circles...


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/07 11:04:58


Post by: Iracundus


The Eldar Codex comes in at 105 pages. The Iyanden Codex had about 30 pages of fluff, 2 pages of general rules, 2 pages of Strategems, and a few scenarios. That would have expanded the Eldar Codex by over a third, just on one Craftworld. No doubt then other Craftworld players would be wanting their own sections. If they all had about equal sized sections, then the Eldar Codex would have been over double in size and higher in price. Of course then some might then be complaining of having to pay increased price for Craftworlds they don't play.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/07 11:12:33


Post by: Fafnir


Iracundus wrote:
The Eldar Codex comes in at 105 pages. The Iyanden Codex had about 30 pages of fluff, 2 pages of general rules, 2 pages of Strategems, and a few scenarios. That would have expanded the Eldar Codex by over a third, just on one Craftworld. No doubt then other Craftworld players would be wanting their own sections. If they all had about equal sized sections, then the Eldar Codex would have been over double in size and higher in price. Of course then some might then be complaining of having to pay increased price for Craftworlds they don't play.


Or maybe they could have kept it at the same price, and it wouldn't seem as ridiculous for once.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/07 11:22:55


Post by: BryllCream


 Fafnir wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
The Eldar Codex comes in at 105 pages. The Iyanden Codex had about 30 pages of fluff, 2 pages of general rules, 2 pages of Strategems, and a few scenarios. That would have expanded the Eldar Codex by over a third, just on one Craftworld. No doubt then other Craftworld players would be wanting their own sections. If they all had about equal sized sections, then the Eldar Codex would have been over double in size and higher in price. Of course then some might then be complaining of having to pay increased price for Craftworlds they don't play.


Or maybe they could have kept it at the same price, and it wouldn't seem as ridiculous for once.

So they have doubled the content but kept the price the same?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/07 12:17:23


Post by: Kroothawk


 BryllCream wrote:
So they have doubled the content but kept the price the same?

Instead they doubled the price and kept the content the same


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/07 20:16:15


Post by: Fafnir


 BryllCream wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
The Eldar Codex comes in at 105 pages. The Iyanden Codex had about 30 pages of fluff, 2 pages of general rules, 2 pages of Strategems, and a few scenarios. That would have expanded the Eldar Codex by over a third, just on one Craftworld. No doubt then other Craftworld players would be wanting their own sections. If they all had about equal sized sections, then the Eldar Codex would have been over double in size and higher in price. Of course then some might then be complaining of having to pay increased price for Craftworlds they don't play.


Or maybe they could have kept it at the same price, and it wouldn't seem as ridiculous for once.

So they have doubled the content but kept the price the same?


Considering the price of the books and what we're getting now, they could do a fair bit more than doubling the content, and that still wouldn't be unreasonable.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/07 20:22:54


Post by: Mr.Church13


I still don't know how people have detailed knowledge of the inner workings of GW and know for a fact that the rules and fluff in the Iyanden and further suppliments were in their respective codexes to begin with.

It's really amazing that I was writing great Iyanden lists day 1 and then theyre all like "Man, don't you know that they didnt even put your rules in your codex?"

And I was all like "Woah, wait...you mean I can't play a fully themed Iyanden army untill this suppliment hits shelves because it's required to paint your Eldar yellow or play Wriathguard?"

And they were all like "YUUUUP!"


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/07 21:03:49


Post by: SickSix


UltraPrime wrote:
I think this thread is now going in circles...


This isn't the Iyanden supplement thread?

Oh do I go to the eldar thread to read about the Farsight supplement...


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/11 10:05:00


Post by: reds8n


T'would seem likely that a physical release of this tome will be available in October.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/11 10:40:56


Post by: Sidstyler


October? That's quite the gap between digital and physical product release.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/11 13:39:24


Post by: Peregrine


 Sidstyler wrote:
October? That's quite the gap between digital and physical product release.


Not entirely surprising given all the stock problems they've had. I can believe that an october release date is the first opportunity they'll get to put it into the printing schedule. And of course the fact that they can sell lots of high-profit-margin digital copies to people who don't want to wait is just a nice bonus...


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/11 13:56:44


Post by: TheDraconicLord


Well, I'll be glad to have it as long as it has decent fluff and new artwork all rolled into a new beautiful book. I really enjoyed reading the Iyanden book so here's hoping for another good book!


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/11 13:57:51


Post by: Kroothawk


 reds8n wrote:
T'would seem likely that a physical release of this tome will be available in October.

Is this a random guess or do you have info on that?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/11 13:58:39


Post by: reds8n


A whisper from me learned friends.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/11 14:07:28


Post by: Panic


yeah,
Seems strange to leave it soo long , lots of people myself included don't want to buy digital. ibook or pdf...

I only buy paper copies, so GW will have to wait till october to get my money.
And with the availablity of pdf versions they are taking quite the gamble that I'll still be interested in picking up a hard copy of something I've probabily already read 3 months earlier...

Panic...



"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/11 14:57:01


Post by: Hulksmash


Hmmm...wonder if it'll be on nook/kindle format before then. I'm definitely interested in this. Otherwise I guess I'll wait till October to get my hard copy while someone tells me the two pages of rules


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 18:20:37


Post by: TheCadreofFi'rios


Wooooo yay!! I hope Farsight gets more overpowered.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 18:44:46


Post by: victorydeluxe


 Hulksmash wrote:
Hmmm...wonder if it'll be on nook/kindle format before then. I'm definitely interested in this. Otherwise I guess I'll wait till October to get my hard copy while someone tells me the two pages of rules


I went to my GW today and asked the same question; apparently they were flirting with the idea of putting it on ebook format and used Iyaden and some of the smaller books out there to test the market. Supposedly they prefer to release codexs first on Apple because of the stricter DRM. Though with the physical copy of Farsight coming in October, I'm not sure if the three month gap period is just to 'test the water' or what.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 18:47:15


Post by: hotsauceman1


Isnt the eldar codex on epub?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 19:01:03


Post by: victorydeluxe


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Isnt the eldar codex on epub?


My mistake, it seems its Eldar and not Iyaden on epub/mobi.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 20:54:15


Post by: Peregrine


 victorydeluxe wrote:
Supposedly they prefer to release codexs first on Apple because of the stricter DRM.


Oh good, the idiots at GW are still hiding their heads in the sand and pretending that DRM actually does anything to prevent a copy of the book being posted within 15 minutes of release. I'm so glad that paying customers are restricted to the ipad so that people who are going to pirate the book have to wait a few minutes for someone to break the DRM.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 21:31:37


Post by: davou


 Archonate wrote:


Get with the program GW. Android is way ahead of Apple by virtue of the simple fact that it's not NEARLY as proprietary.
Android compatibility will cover a lot more bases, accessibility-wise, than Apple compatibility.
I would buy this if it were on Android. I highly doubt I'm the only one.
Nobody is going to drop the Benjamins for an iPad just so they can have your new book. (Especially when they have superior tablets which cost less.)


While this wasn't the case when they first released digital product, it probably was when the first started planning it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, this thing is up for pre-order now.... In ebook format


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Farsight-Enclaves.html


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just pre-ordered the digital product and got the following; Available to download from 20/07/2013


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 21:45:21


Post by: overtyrant


From there Black Library page:

Also included are new missions and rules to use with your Tau Empire collection in games of Warhammer 40,000, so you can re-enact the great victories of the Enclaves, and lead commander Farsights’ elite battlesuit cadres to glory.

I highlighted the part I am most intrested in as if I can take an all battlesuit army then this supplement will have by itself got me back into 40k


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 21:51:20


Post by: Ironwill13791


An all battlesuit army would definitely get me to throw all my money at the Tau instead of my daemons.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 21:57:10


Post by: hotsauceman1


Ok so it can do Epub and mobi. Which one of those works on android?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 21:57:11


Post by: Hulksmash


Hmmm....might get it if it's actually available in July for download. The website itself says August. Glad to see it'll be available though since the Eldar Supplement still isn't available.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 22:02:13


Post by: vitki


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok so it can do Epub and mobi. Which one of those works on android?


Either should work. It depends on what your e-reader app supports.
Kindle and Nook apps support both IIRC.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 22:04:57


Post by: hotsauceman1


Android does have several Epub read apps that you can use, aswell and Adope digital Editions opens epub on your comp


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/12 22:11:26


Post by: Ovion


I recommend MoonReader or MoonReader+ for Android.

MoonReader is free, but I think there's ads, and it's not quite as smooth or polished.

MoonReader+ costs a little (I think £3?) (though is often on a half price sale), is ad free, and slightly faster than its free version.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 03:38:06


Post by: Kirby


Here you guys, some pictures of the supplement:

http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/07/farsight-supplement-tau-codex/

Some of the wording looks like Crisis Suits could be Troops.

And love this.... Seismic Fibrillator Node - identified as a potential extra shooting phase...


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 03:53:52


Post by: cincydooley


Couldn't help but notice this when I followed the link:

http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Warhammer-40000-The-Rules.html

For $32 that's pretty damn full of win.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 03:59:21


Post by: tastytaste


Looks like Kirby forgot to take the screen shots from the itunes page.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/book/farsight-enclaves-codex-tau/id673249523?mt=11

Totally loving the $32 buck basic rules! Bundle


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 04:00:35


Post by: cincydooley


It appears that the iBooks version is now up for preorder in iTunes for $39 as well. I'll probably be willing to pay that extra 7 bucks for all the pop ups.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 04:01:13


Post by: warboss


Interesting... I like the idea of Farsight rebelling because his eyes were opened and not necessarily because he was corrupted by chaos. I always figured he went rogue because of a new found dedication to Khorne.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 04:05:54


Post by: tastytaste


 cincydooley wrote:
It appears that the iBooks version is now up for preorder in iTunes for $39 as well. I'll probably be willing to pay that extra 7 bucks for all the pop ups.


The Pop ups are so worth every penny on any of the ipad versions


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 04:19:31


Post by: cincydooley


 tastytaste wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
It appears that the iBooks version is now up for preorder in iTunes for $39 as well. I'll probably be willing to pay that extra 7 bucks for all the pop ups.


The Pop ups are so worth every penny on any of the ipad versions


Couldn't agree more. I play enough to know MOST of the rules, but those quick references are, IMO, a real selling point.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 04:19:34


Post by: hotsauceman1


Anyone notice? The riptide is piloted by Earth Caste.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 04:25:17


Post by: Ovion


 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Anyone notice? The riptide is piloted by Earth Caste.
Tau codex says made by Earth Caste Engineers, piloted by Fire Caste.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 04:27:12


Post by: hotsauceman1


I wonder then what "Earth Caste Pilot Array" is then. Sounds like a new piece of wargear. What if is allows for greater ballistic skill?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And "Warscraper drone" means.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 04:50:31


Post by: Kingsley


This looks real promising to me, especially since I have about a dozen unused Crisis Suits right now...


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 06:30:57


Post by: HoverBoy


 Kirby wrote:
And love this.... Seismic Fibrillator Node - identified as a potential extra shooting phase...

In all likelihood a way to slow down the enemy's movement.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 06:31:48


Post by: paulson games


I find it wierd that they are doing pre-orders for a digital product, it's not like they need to get a product count so they can pile up inventory in a warehouse.

Its a digital product which is unlimted in quantity and takes no space. Taking money upfront and making people wait for a digital download is just another silly thing that shows GW is total fail when it comes to the internet.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 06:33:11


Post by: Kanluwen


 paulson games wrote:
I find it wierd that they are doing pre-orders for a digital product, it's not like they need to get a product count so they can pile up inventory in a warehouse.

Its a digital product which is unlimted in quantity and takes no space. Taking money upfront and making people wait for a digital download is just another silly thing that shows GW is total fail when it comes to the internet.

You say this when Steam does preorders and most albums released digitally as well have a 'preorder' period before the release.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 06:41:03


Post by: paulson games


One of many reasons why I don't use steam. It makes no sense to pre-order digital items as most pre-orders don't offer any pricebreaks or incentive. Why give a company money in advance when you will get the product at the same time as everybody else? I have better things to do with my money then to let GW sit on it for a month.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 06:50:29


Post by: Ovion


I find that Steam generally does offer a pre-order sale on things (usually 10% off).
And/Or particular bonuses for pre-ordering (like when you get GAME 2/3, you get game 1(+2) for free when you preorder and/or exclusive ingame items),
Also often when the release date needs to coincide with a physical release, and they want to ensure they can get their money at the same time as people going and preordering a physical copy.
OR, in some cases it's a long-term preorder, that helps fund the game.
I also can't help but feel it's to help pay whatever setup fees they may have (though I haven't looked at what it takes or costs to put a game on Steam).

These are all sensible excuses / justifications for doing so, though even then some of it is a bit silly.

GW are just treating their digital product the same as their physical product.
And while for some things (like when a Physical and Digital Codex, or Apoc) are set to be released, and they don't want them leaked, giving people the option so they can get more direct sales makes some sense.

For things already released (like the 40k rulebook), or not due to get a physical for months (Farsight Supplement), or is going to be digital only, you're right, it makes exactly zero sense at all.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 07:55:14


Post by: Develain


Can someone confirm if O'shovah makes Crisis Suits Troops in this supplement?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 08:39:21


Post by: Kroothawk


Since they are officially shown as previews on the Black Library website, here some pics:














Plus from the itunes website:






"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 08:43:57


Post by: blood lance


This, actually sounds quite good. Can't wait for the actual hard copy to come out, its strange there's absolutely no mention of this on the GW website, at all. Not even a link to the BL page.
Also, is that "August 2013" the release date? I can't see why someone would pre-order something with no solid release date.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 09:01:16


Post by: Lovepug13


Does anyone have any update on potential rules?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 09:14:08


Post by: stubacca


might be slightly off topic but is there any news on a supposed Allies supplement?? or will that encompass ALL armies, rather than being race specific?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 10:41:57


Post by: thejughead


The actual Download is July 20th. August is for the Ipad version.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 12:22:37


Post by: spectreoneone


 Ovion wrote:
I find that Steam generally does offer a pre-order sale on things (usually 10% off).
And/Or particular bonuses for pre-ordering (like when you get GAME 2/3, you get game 1(+2) for free when you preorder and/or exclusive ingame items),
Also often when the release date needs to coincide with a physical release, and they want to ensure they can get their money at the same time as people going and preordering a physical copy.
OR, in some cases it's a long-term preorder, that helps fund the game.
I also can't help but feel it's to help pay whatever setup fees they may have (though I haven't looked at what it takes or costs to put a game on Steam).

Pretty much this. EA does pre-orders through Origin as well. Pre-orders are the new "thing" for digital content. I think GW is just jumping on the bandwagon. In the case of this, though, GW doesn't get a dime until release, because Apple does not charge you until the content is delivered on the release date.

This is marketing, people. It drums up excitement. GW is not dumb, nor are they inept or non-sensical. They wouldn't be the biggest minatures company if they didn't know a thing or two about selling product. I can guarantee you that outside of the microcosm or wargaming that is Dakka, there are thousands of Tau players that hit that pre-order button as soon as it was available. Doesn't always make sense, but it works.

All of that aside, I am highly excited about this. Reading through the previews just made me want it even more, and I did indeed pre-order the supplement. $40 isn't bad, especially when you consider that it's pretty much the same size as the Codex (according to the equivalent print page count).


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 12:28:49


Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin


Someone said on Warseer that the hardcopy was being held back to October, no idea how accurate that is and/or why. Seems to make little sense to me if correct.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 12:34:08


Post by: HoverBoy


It's kinda weird how EA and GW seem to share so many policies.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 13:00:15


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Someone said on Warseer that the hardcopy was being held back to October, no idea how accurate that is and/or why. Seems to make little sense to me if correct.


It may depend on where they are being printed and how soon after being finished they are putting it out, with the current release schedule they're printing more than they used to do even allowing for them seeming to forget Fantasy almost completely)

It could be they just can't get enough printed (and distributed world wide) fast enough to release the hard copy before October

It could be they want to see the sales numbers for the digital version going first

or there might be 'Deep and Sinister' reasons (cue spooky music & conspiracy theories)


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 13:14:28


Post by: Haight


 paulson games wrote:
One of many reasons why I don't use steam. It makes no sense to pre-order digital items as most pre-orders don't offer any pricebreaks or incentive. Why give a company money in advance when you will get the product at the same time as everybody else? I have better things to do with my money then to let GW sit on it for a month.


Actually... pre-ordering on steam usually has a 10-15% price break.


On topic:


Has anyone figured out yet if this will be available physically ? I don't use smart phones or tablets (i know, i'm a luddite, but i don't believe in getting yet another two devices that require near yearly upgrading, on top of a monthly bill... ), so a desktop digital or physical version are the options i'm looking for.

Thanks to anyone who can point me towards confirmation.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 13:17:25


Post by: Platuan4th


Haight wrote:


Thanks to anyone who can point me towards confirmation.


If you're looking for confirmation, you won't get it until it goes up for pre-order on GW's site. Anything else is a rumor, no matter how good or accurate the person has been in the past.

That said, rumors are saying October for the physical version.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 13:23:37


Post by: spectreoneone


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Someone said on Warseer that the hardcopy was being held back to October, no idea how accurate that is and/or why. Seems to make little sense to me if correct.


It may depend on where they are being printed and how soon after being finished they are putting it out, with the current release schedule they're printing more than they used to do even allowing for them seeming to forget Fantasy almost completely)

It could be they just can't get enough printed (and distributed world wide) fast enough to release the hard copy before October

It could be they want to see the sales numbers for the digital version going first

or there might be 'Deep and Sinister' reasons (cue spooky music & conspiracy theories)

I don't think it's anything deep and sinister. I think that GW is pushing themselves to the limit when it comes to pushing out products, and they can't get their book releases to the printer fast enough. If they have a finished product, digital distribution is far simpler, especially when you don't have to rely on your own distribution system. That's why I think it was a very wise decision for them to use the iTunes marketplace for their first foray into digital content. I'm not going to get into the whole Apple versus Android argument or the merits and flaws of the platforms, because when it comes down to it, the iTunes is much more established, and has far more volume than Google's marketplace. It just makes sense to use the largest digital distribution platform in the world to distribute your first digital product.

Obviously we see that GW has now expanded beyond iTunes, and all of the Apple naysayers can breate their collective sighs of relief that we have cross-platform digital products. This is a good thing for GW, and it will be a good thing for those of us that play GW's games. But, I do forsee this model of supplements being released digitally weeks, if not months, before physical products come out. I don't think it will really hurt their sales, because these supplements are more niche products than mainstream products (not all Tau players will have any interest in Farsight's army, for example). I also feel that many folks will begin to eschew the hardback books/codexes because they can have a very efficient and streamlined library all contained within one digital device.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 13:49:00


Post by: Savageconvoy


 Kroothawk wrote:
Spoiler:










I really like how everything looks like standard art with a red recolor. Really adds to the feeling that it's worth being seperate from the main codex.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 13:57:57


Post by: cincydooley


 paulson games wrote:
I find it wierd that they are doing pre-orders for a digital product, it's not like they need to get a product count so they can pile up inventory in a warehouse.

Its a digital product which is unlimted in quantity and takes no space. Taking money upfront and making people wait for a digital download is just another silly thing that shows GW is total fail when it comes to the internet.


iTunes must be a huge Internet fail too.

People really will find any reason to complain when it comes to GW.

Also, the iTunes version isn't releasing in August. It says July 20th just like on the black library website.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 14:36:06


Post by: agnosto


I'd like a digital (non-iOS) copy of the codex as well...Not to complain but releasing it for alternative formats at the same time as the supplement would have made sense, like with the Eldar books...


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 14:50:16


Post by: Hulksmash


They are releasing both at the same time. BL is selling the standard digital to release on 7-20 and ITunes is selling the apple version to be released on 7-20. The only format not out on 7-20 will be standard print.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 14:56:14


Post by: agnosto


 Hulksmash wrote:
They are releasing both at the same time. BL is selling the standard digital to release on 7-20 and ITunes is selling the apple version to be released on 7-20. The only format not out on 7-20 will be standard print.


I think you misunderstood me, I would like a non-iOS version of the codex. This supplement is all well and good but I'd like a digital copy of the codex as well; currently, Eldar is the only ebook codex that's listed on their site..

http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Codex


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 14:57:52


Post by: Hulksmash


Ah, I did in fact misunderstand. I'm sure they'll get around to it. They've got the rulebook now and will likely go back and start releasing non-iOS of the codexes to match the iTunes offerings.

I'm just glad they seem to be getting into the habit of releasing them together (i.e. Eldar Codex, Tau Supplement) which is good since I don't do iPad.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 15:52:06


Post by: agnosto


 Hulksmash wrote:
Ah, I did in fact misunderstand. I'm sure they'll get around to it. They've got the rulebook now and will likely go back and start releasing non-iOS of the codexes to match the iTunes offerings.

I'm just glad they seem to be getting into the habit of releasing them together (i.e. Eldar Codex, Tau Supplement) which is good since I don't do iPad.


I feel the same way. I have an iPad for work but don't think the product justifies the price. I think I'm a bit strange in that I certainly have the money to purchase an iPad but don't like the closed ecosystem that is all things iOS. That said, I do wish apple would offer the iBook app on Google Play because I do like the auto-update function that keeps the digital products up to date with FAQs/Errata... Ah well, I guess I can't have it all.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 15:54:11


Post by: thejughead


The site says October 20th for the Hardcopy.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 16:37:08


Post by: Kroothawk


The Farsight fluff was slightly expanded in the Codex. Now we will see if the Farsight Enclave is indeed the "Chaos Tau" or the "finally free from ethereal oppression" faction some claim it to be.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 16:43:57


Post by: jah-joshua


from the sample pages, Kroot, it looks like the Enclave is Ethereal free, not Chaos Tau...

cheers
jah


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 17:03:48


Post by: Iracundus


Reading the excerpted pages, the section entitled "Tendrils of Doubt" describes O'Shovah realizing that the enclaves were functioning well on their own without Ethereal oversight, except for the factor of poor morale (from the deaths of the 3 Ethereals that had originally accompanied their expedition). This combined with his earlier realization about the warp, daemons, and the potential of the warp (such as warp travel like the Imperium uses) and the knowledge the Ethereals had kept the knowledge away from the general Tau population.

My speculation is that O'Shovah concludes the Ethereals have become a tyrannical class keeping the Tau in ignorance in order to maintain their tight grip on power, and that the other castes can function without the Ethereals once they break free of their indoctrination. I don't like the whole "Chaos made me do it" excuse to suddenly turn individuals into cackling villainous versions of their former selves. An ideological epiphany and rebellion led by true believers in the cause is much more realistic and nuanced, allowing players to agree or disagree with the cause themselves, and allowing the individual Tau to remain deciders of their own fate rather than being coerced by outside forces like daemonic possession or dark artifacts.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 17:11:38


Post by: Kroothawk


I call it the "Freedom to massacre anyone you want without fear of punishment"


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/13 17:17:26


Post by: Iracundus


 Kroothawk wrote:
I call it the "Freedom to massacre anyone you want without fear of punishment"


The Greater Good as advocated by the Ethereals and whatever O'Shovah calls his ideology may not actually differ very much. I would speculate the difference is just who is in charge, with the Farsight Enclaves being rid of the "parasitic" Ethereals. In practice I would speculate that if Farsight and the Fire Caste were the new caste in charge, then they may subconsciously still end up being more aggressive and less quick to see the benefits of a good diplomatic policy.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 00:17:25


Post by: Slayer le boucher


http://forofreakfactory.mforos.com/1035375/11267302-codex-o-shovah-fotos-y-rumores-a-dia-14/#103079772


1 - FOC Changes: *If Farsight is included in your primary detachment, he must be your Warlord

*Crises Suits are now Troops choices

*Cannot take Ethereals (special character or normal) or Shadowsun, but Fireblades are now Elite choices and can be taken 1-3 per slot

2 - Special Issue Wargear (can choose from this list or the original Tau list, but not both):

*Seismic Fibrillator Node -- One use only. Reduces target unit's moving, running/flat out moves, assault moves, and jet pack/jet bike moves in the assault phase by 3".

*Fusion Blades -- User's close combat attacks become S8 AP1 Melta, Unwieldy

*Advanced Jump Accelerator -- Replace Battlesuit's Jetpack, granting it a 9" move in movement phase and 3D6" in the assault phase.

*High Yield Shield Generator -- Grants user a 3++ Invulnerable save

*Advanced Markerlight Pod -- Battlesuit gear that, if it hits, grants two markerlight hits (these can be used by the Battlesuit and his unit, like a networked markerlght)

*Advanced Railrifle -- Solid Shot: S8 AP1 Rapid Fire, 60" or Submunition: S4 AP4 Large Blast, 60"

*Integrated Defense Matrix Node -- One use only. All friendly Codex: Tau Empire units within 18" of the user may overwatch at full BS for a single turn

3 - Special Rules: *All units with the option to take Bonding Knife Ritual get the upgrade for free *Unconventional Doctrine -- All Crises Battlesuits, Tau Commanders, Crises Bodyguard, and Farsight himself exchange the Supporting Fire special rule with the Rage and Furious Charge USRs.



"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 00:26:38


Post by: AnonAmbientLight


 Slayer le boucher wrote:
1 - FOC Changes: *If Farsight is included in your primary detachment, he must be your Warlord

*Crises Suits are now Troops choices

*Cannot take Ethereals (special character or normal) or Shadowsun, but Fireblades are now Elite choices and can be taken 1-3 per slot

2 - Special Issue Wargear (can choose from this list or the original Tau list, but not both):

*Seismic Fibrillator Node -- One use only. Reduces target unit's moving, running/flat out moves, assault moves, and jet pack/jet bike moves in the assault phase by 3".

*Fusion Blades -- User's close combat attacks become S8 AP1 Melta, Unwieldy

*Advanced Jump Accelerator -- Replace Battlesuit's Jetpack, granting it a 9" move in movement phase and 3D6" in the assault phase.

*High Yield Shield Generator -- Grants user a 3++ Invulnerable save

*Advanced Markerlight Pod -- Battlesuit gear that, if it hits, grants two markerlight hits (these can be used by the Battlesuit and his unit, like a networked markerlght)

*Advanced Railrifle -- Solid Shot: S8 AP1 Rapid Fire, 60" or Submunition: S4 AP4 Large Blast, 60"

*Integrated Defense Matrix Node -- One use only. All friendly Codex: Tau Empire units within 18" of the user may overwatch at full BS for a single turn

3 - Special Rules: *All units with the option to take Bonding Knife Ritual get the upgrade for free *Unconventional Doctrine -- All Crises Battlesuits, Tau Commanders, Crises Bodyguard, and Farsight himself exchange the Supporting Fire special rule with the Rage and Furious Charge USRs.



is this wishful thinking, or did you see this somewhere?

Inquiring Shas'la want to know!


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 00:28:29


Post by: warboss


 Slayer le boucher wrote:
1 - FOC Changes: *If Farsight is included in your primary detachment, he must be your Warlord

*Crises Suits are now Troops choices

*Cannot take Ethereals (special character or normal) or Shadowsun, but Fireblades are now Elite choices and can be taken 1-3 per slot

2 - Special Issue Wargear (can choose from this list or the original Tau list, but not both):

*Seismic Fibrillator Node -- One use only. Reduces target unit's moving, running/flat out moves, assault moves, and jet pack/jet bike moves in the assault phase by 3".

*Fusion Blades -- User's close combat attacks become S8 AP1 Melta, Unwieldy

*Advanced Jump Accelerator -- Replace Battlesuit's Jetpack, granting it a 9" move in movement phase and 3D6" in the assault phase.

*High Yield Shield Generator -- Grants user a 3++ Invulnerable save

*Advanced Markerlight Pod -- Battlesuit gear that, if it hits, grants two markerlight hits (these can be used by the Battlesuit and his unit, like a networked markerlght)

*Advanced Railrifle -- Solid Shot: S8 AP1 Rapid Fire, 60" or Submunition: S4 AP4 Large Blast, 60"

*Integrated Defense Matrix Node -- One use only. All friendly Codex: Tau Empire units within 18" of the user may overwatch at full BS for a single turn

3 - Special Rules: *All units with the option to take Bonding Knife Ritual get the upgrade for free *Unconventional Doctrine -- All Crises Battlesuits, Tau Commanders, Crises Bodyguard, and Farsight himself exchange the Supporting Fire special rule with the Rage and Furious Charge USRs.



Interesting... it's definitely a mixed bag that shows the fire caste predominance fairly well with the loss of the touchy feely supporting fire replaced by more aggressive rules (albeit less useful for tau in general). It's a viable alternative and not just an everything-is-better supplement like with Iyanden. As thematic armies go, they actually did a pretty good job IMO although I would have preferred if they made the fusion blade a regular system and not a once-per-army option.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 00:31:11


Post by: Slayer le boucher


Spanish forums, but i can't remember who showed to me first...

i had added the link but seems that i did something wrong.

Edited my initial post with the link.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 00:41:14


Post by: Savageconvoy


That... That is silly. Equipment to overwatch at full BS, but suits of all flavor lose Support fire.

This is interesting though. If it's true it'll allow insane amounts of suit variation. Squads of Fusion blade and HYSG would be so fun to use.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 00:43:15


Post by: AnonAmbientLight


 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Spanish forums, but i can't remember who showed to me first...

i had added the link but seems that i did something wrong.

Edited my initial post with the link.


Thanks for the info!

I agree, it's a mixed bag and i'm glad, especially if all this info holds out.

I was hoping it would be an option, not a requirement for future lists to go farsight enclave. I still can't past judgement until the codex is in hand, but i'm pretty excited for the supplement. Enough to hold off from buying any more models until i see what i can work with.

Damn it GW....


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 00:45:41


Post by: Lucarikx


Oh man, looks like GW has managed to snag my money again.....

Lucarikx


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 00:48:41


Post by: Savageconvoy


Suits as troops, mobile CC units with 3++ and S8 AP1 attacks, and Rapid fire HRR. Now I really have to see this for myself. This sounds like there is no reason to use the regular codex.
I'll have to see the limitations. I know that most will be signature systems with rapid fire HRR probably on a SC broadside.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 00:59:39


Post by: Slayer le boucher


Don't think its for Whole units those wargear, but more like Signature systems.

of course you can then take a few of them in a Bodyguard units and stuff, but we still don't know if they are limited to 1 per detachement or not...

My gues would be that they are.

Dunno how it was in the Iyanden book, if it wasn't a one per army items( at least not all of them) then maybe it will be so with the Farsight book, but i really doubt it.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 01:00:09


Post by: Noctem


Hmm those all would be awesome, but seems a little OP! How would they have managed to get these rules since the physical copy isn't close being printed and the digital isn't out? Insider?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 01:00:11


Post by: Melchiour


Some of this are things I expected but some seem insane. Like the rapid fire Heavy rail rifle. If these pan out to be true I see a lot of Farsight lists being played.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 01:01:25


Post by: DarthSpader


if thgose detials are accurate, i will for sure be picking this up asap. i love the idea of a suit themed list


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 01:29:49


Post by: chaos0xomega


If nothing else, the booknsounds like it will be a good excusento convert up some new crisis suits


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 01:44:37


Post by: Sidstyler


 Melchiour wrote:
Some of this are things I expected but some seem insane. Like the rapid fire Heavy rail rifle.


"Insane"?...more like "Wow that might actually be worth using now!"

The heavy rail rifle needed two shots to begin with. As it is there's really no point in taking it, it got nerfed so hard. Hell, just giving it rapid fire might not even be enough to fix it because you still only get 30" range, if I'm not mistaken. I like that they gave it a submunition too, even if it is kinda gakky.

Noctem wrote:
Hmm those all would be awesome, but seems a little OP!


I don't see how anything in there is "OP", honestly.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 02:05:58


Post by: SickSix


 Slayer le boucher wrote:
http://forofreakfactory.mforos.com/1035375/11267302-codex-o-shovah-fotos-y-rumores-a-dia-14/#103079772


1 - FOC Changes: *If Farsight is included in your primary detachment, he must be your Warlord

*Crises Suits are now Troops choices

*Cannot take Ethereals (special character or normal) or Shadowsun, but Fireblades are now Elite choices and can be taken 1-3 per slot

2 - Special Issue Wargear (can choose from this list or the original Tau list, but not both):

*Seismic Fibrillator Node -- One use only. Reduces target unit's moving, running/flat out moves, assault moves, and jet pack/jet bike moves in the assault phase by 3".

*Fusion Blades -- User's close combat attacks become S8 AP1 Melta, Unwieldy

*Advanced Jump Accelerator -- Replace Battlesuit's Jetpack, granting it a 9" move in movement phase and 3D6" in the assault phase.

*High Yield Shield Generator -- Grants user a 3++ Invulnerable save

*Advanced Markerlight Pod -- Battlesuit gear that, if it hits, grants two markerlight hits (these can be used by the Battlesuit and his unit, like a networked markerlght)

*Advanced Railrifle -- Solid Shot: S8 AP1 Rapid Fire, 60" or Submunition: S4 AP4 Large Blast, 60"

*Integrated Defense Matrix Node -- One use only. All friendly Codex: Tau Empire units within 18" of the user may overwatch at full BS for a single turn

3 - Special Rules: *All units with the option to take Bonding Knife Ritual get the upgrade for free *Unconventional Doctrine -- All Crises Battlesuits, Tau Commanders, Crises Bodyguard, and Farsight himself exchange the Supporting Fire special rule with the Rage and Furious Charge USRs.



If this is true, can you imagine what the Farsight Bomb will be like?

I have 14 battle suits with magnetized arms and the old Farsight model. Not to mention about 60 firewarrior models.

I think I will be purchasing this when hardcopy is released.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 02:14:18


Post by: WarOne


 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Someone said on Warseer that the hardcopy was being held back to October, no idea how accurate that is and/or why. Seems to make little sense to me if correct.


Perhaps to build enough copies for ordering.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 02:16:05


Post by: Warboss Imbad Ironskull


Actually I like the idea of doing a Farsight Enclave and not using Farsight. Opens up alot of possibilities for fluff and character creation.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 02:16:10


Post by: Melchiour


Quick question. Looking at the images shown in that article it looks like they have riptide named O'Vesa. A possible character riptide?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 02:42:49


Post by: chaos0xomega


 Sidstyler wrote:
 Melchiour wrote:
Some of this are things I expected but some seem insane. Like the rapid fire Heavy rail rifle.


"Insane"?...more like "Wow that might actually be worth using now!"

The heavy rail rifle needed two shots to begin with. As it is there's really no point in taking it, it got nerfed so hard. Hell, just giving it rapid fire might not even be enough to fix it because you still only get 30" range, if I'm not mistaken. I like that they gave it a submunition too, even if it is kinda gakky.

Noctem wrote:
Hmm those all would be awesome, but seems a little OP!


I don't see how anything in there is "OP", honestly.


You do realize the rifle along w the rest of the wargear is one per army right? You can get all excited by the new one but its only going ti be one suit that gets it, not going to really do anything to change the situation.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 03:21:20


Post by: davou


chaos0xomega wrote:
 Sidstyler wrote:
 Melchiour wrote:
Some of this are things I expected but some seem insane. Like the rapid fire Heavy rail rifle.


"Insane"?...more like "Wow that might actually be worth using now!"

The heavy rail rifle needed two shots to begin with. As it is there's really no point in taking it, it got nerfed so hard. Hell, just giving it rapid fire might not even be enough to fix it because you still only get 30" range, if I'm not mistaken. I like that they gave it a submunition too, even if it is kinda gakky.

Noctem wrote:
Hmm those all would be awesome, but seems a little OP!


I don't see how anything in there is "OP", honestly.


You do realize the rifle along w the rest of the wargear is one per army right? You can get all excited by the new one but its only going ti be one suit that gets it, not going to really do anything to change the situation.


Yup, and not worth giving up iridium for.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 03:44:40


Post by: Micky


So they'll have Rage and Furious Charge... for what, 4 S6 attacks on the charge?

Great.

But they're still WS2, I'll bet.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 03:52:19


Post by: Sidstyler


chaos0xomega wrote:
You do realize the rifle along w the rest of the wargear is one per army right? You can get all excited by the new one but its only going ti be one suit that gets it, not going to really do anything to change the situation.


No I didn't. So that makes the cries of "omg OP!" even more ridiculous then.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 04:44:40


Post by: pantsonhead


Someone posted exactly these rules as explicit wishlisting on 3plusplus:
http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/07/farsight-supplement-tau-codex/#comment-59279

Wishlisting here, have to see what really comes in the Suppliment, but if I could have my druthers:

1 – FOC Changes:
*If Farsight is included in your primary detachment, he must be your Warlord
*Crises Suits are now Troops choices
*Cannot take Ethereals (special character or normal) or Shadowsun, but Fireblades are now Elite choices and can be taken 1-3 per slot

2 – Special Issue Wargear (can choose from this list or the original Tau list, but not both):
*Seismic Fibrillator Node — One use only. Reduces target unit's moving, running/flat out moves, assault moves, and jet pack/jet bike moves in the assault phase by 3".
*Fusion Blades — User's close combat attacks become S8 AP1 Melta, Unwieldy
*Advanced Jump Accelerator — Replace Battlesuit's Jetpack, granting it a 9" move in movement phase and 3D6" in the assault phase.
*High Yield Shield Generator — Grants user a 3++ Invulnerable save
*Advanced Markerlight Pod — Battlesuit gear that, if it hits, grants two markerlight hits (these can be used by the Battlesuit and his unit, like a networked markerlght)
*Advanced Railrifle — Solid Shot: S8 AP1 Rapid Fire, 60" or Submunition: S4 AP4 Large Blast, 60"
*Integrated Defense Matrix Node — One use only. All friendly Codex: Tau Empire units within 18" of the user may overwatch at full BS for a single turn


See MRC's comment.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 05:05:23


Post by: tuiman


All new Cities of Death stratagems exclusive in codex:Farsight?

Didn't think anybody played that anymore


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 07:07:38


Post by: Sidstyler


They don't, but GW wants to keep up the illusion that it still supports older products, and maybe has a few vain hopes that people will still buy them.

Also, I just found out one of my favorite artists on deviantArt is responsible for the cover art: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Games-Workshop-Codex-Farsight-Enclaves-385501669


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 16:12:01


Post by: Lucarikx


Wow, it was that artist!

To bad those "rules" were just wishlisting. T_T

Lucarikx


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 16:41:03


Post by: MechaBeast


Damn it, i thought i was done buying crisis suits.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 16:44:54


Post by: Rainbow Dash


so they're bringing back supplements, but worse and more inconvenient


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 17:00:02


Post by: Chaplain Pallantide


Edit - nevermind didn't see that the rules were a wishlist! My bad for not reading as thoroughly as I should have


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 17:02:21


Post by: warboss


 Chaplain Pallantide wrote:
I just don't understand why these optional rules couldn't have been included in the main rule book? Seriously, why not have battlesuit commanders unlock crisis suits as troops? They would have made much more money moving suits to troops and freeing up the elite slots for people to take multiple Riptides...GW never ceases to amaze me.


Because then they wouldn't be able to sell you a supplement to the codex that is priced more than an old softcover codex with 1/10 the rules content.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 17:36:56


Post by: Mr.Church13


Do people just "Forget" that theese things are packed with great fluff and battle missions.

I'm guessing at this point GW should just remove all the stories, close Black Library, switch to a tournament only you can't play friendly games that aren't tournaments format, and release only $20 rules packets in 3 ring binders so that changing the rules everytime a tournament player whines is super easy.

As a fluffy/theme player these books are awesome and not just about the rules.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 17:44:19


Post by: Rainbow Dash


Mr.Church13 wrote:
Do people just "Forget" that theese things are packed with great fluff and battle missions.

I'm guessing at this point GW should just remove all the stories, close Black Library, switch to a tournament only you can't play friendly games that aren't tournaments format, and release only $20 rules packets in 3 ring binders so that changing the rules everytime a tournament player whines is super easy.

As a fluffy/theme player these books are awesome and not just about the rules.


back in the day they didn't haven fluff and stuff, keeping the books smaller and thus cheaper.
You read books if you wanted fluff...
less then, about 20 pages in a codex is actually useful
back in the day that's usually around how many they had, not 100
I don't need all that extra crap and a 60 dollar price tag, there's rulebooks for other miniature games that cost less then that


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 17:46:27


Post by: warboss


Mr.Church13 wrote:
Do people just "Forget" that theese things are packed with great fluff and battle missions.

I'm guessing at this point GW should just remove all the stories, close Black Library, switch to a tournament only you can't play friendly games that aren't tournaments format, and release only $20 rules packets in 3 ring binders so that changing the rules everytime a tournament player whines is super easy.

As a fluffy/theme player these books are awesome and not just about the rules.


And that's your right as a consumer and fellow dakkite to have a different *opinion* but getting cranky about it and suggesting wild and frankly stupid suggestions/scenarios is pointless. I personally buy rulebooks for rules... the fluff is the icing on the cake but not the actual cake. I'm not forgetting the stories but rather relegate them to a much lower priority for justifying the price. For me, paying that much for 2 pages of rules (in the Iyanden case) is about as enticing as getting a spoon full of cake slathered in a cup of icing.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 18:03:59


Post by: stonefox


I'm not familiar with iPads but I have a friend who has one. Is it difficult to hook it up to a printer and make a print version?

It's me. I'm the 20-something y.o. grandpa who uses an iPhone but the iPad is way too technological for me.

I'm really happy about the all-suit army though. After coming back from my hiatus I found my old stash and apparently there were more suits than I thought. Looks like at least one of each FW suit, 20 in all, plus another 20 regular suits. All unassembled, but at least that means I can convert them into what I need.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 18:24:35


Post by: BryllCream


So...those weren't the actual rules?


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 18:47:48


Post by: Clunker


As good as they sounded, they were stated as just being "Wishlisting" by the person who originally posted them.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 21:14:07


Post by: Slayer le boucher


Yeah, while on he Ebbok images that you can see on the web there is mentions of Earth cast Array, Sismic Fibrillator Nod and Fusion blades, those i posted where actually wishlist from someone on 3++ blog...

i was mislead because i found those on a spanish forum...


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 21:33:32


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 Rainbow Dash wrote:
Mr.Church13 wrote:
Do people just "Forget" that theese things are packed with great fluff and battle missions.

I'm guessing at this point GW should just remove all the stories, close Black Library, switch to a tournament only you can't play friendly games that aren't tournaments format, and release only $20 rules packets in 3 ring binders so that changing the rules everytime a tournament player whines is super easy.

As a fluffy/theme player these books are awesome and not just about the rules.


back in the day they didn't haven fluff and stuff, keeping the books smaller and thus cheaper.
You read books if you wanted fluff...
less then, about 20 pages in a codex is actually useful
back in the day that's usually around how many they had, not 100
I don't need all that extra crap and a 60 dollar price tag, there's rulebooks for other miniature games that cost less then that


That was third edition, and it was honestly crap.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 21:35:40


Post by: Ferrum_Sanguinis


No word on a possible print version yet? Geez GW, I want to give YOU my money, not Apple!


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 21:39:09


Post by: ashikenshin


 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
No word on a possible print version yet? Geez GW, I want to give YOU my money, not Apple!


I think october for the printed version.


"Farsight - Tau supplement" - released, discussion starts pg 8, new rumours on pg. 22 @ 2013/07/15 23:34:43


Post by: UltraPrime


 MechaBeast wrote:
http://cdn.cultofmac.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/blogipadprintingbig2.jpg

Does this help?

Fantastic. Made me laugh!