sieGermans wrote: So, aside from Turn 1 shenanigans, does this mean we still can’t move and charge following teleporting in from a monolith on Turn 2+?
Eonfuzz wrote: Would our "Emergency Invasion Beams" stratagem now force disembarking units to take causalities on a roll of 1?
As we are now "Disembarking as if it were a transport" while its being destroyed?
As a side note; Imotekh is now a dumpster fire, the deletion of his Warlord Trait is a sad thing to behold.
Destroying the night scythe does not say treat it as a transport, so no reason to trigger roll of 1 for passengers, although that would have been peferable to losing the entire unit
Also o is it that bad for necrons with the CP regenerate? You'd need to spend 6CP before you would expect to have 2 back. If you can limit yourself to 3 per turn, of our starting 9, you're still pretty good.
So basically the format is this:
CA: rules changes, points changes
BIG FAQ 1: rules changes, points changes
BIG FAQ 2: rules changes while thinking about CA changes since it's already in the printers
Necrons are getting the points drops in CA. Don't worry. FAQs are to tone down the super strong/annoying stuff. CA is to buff the trash (while also toning down the good stuff)
rvd1ofakind wrote: So basically the format is this:
CA: rules changes, points changes
BIG FAQ 1: rules changes, points changes
BIG FAQ 2: rules changes while thinking about CA changes since it's already in the printers
Necrons are getting the points drops in CA. Don't worry. FAQs are to tone down the super strong/annoying stuff. CA is to buff the trash (while also toning down the good stuff)
The question is are point drops enough? We still lack enough AT and have some really big problems with how our rules are written.
Also necrons arent probably the only faction to get point drops and with this FAQ doing nothing to limit soup im still very skeptical
The question is are point drops enough? We still lack enough AT and have some really big problems with how our rules are written.
Also necrons arent probably the only faction to get point drops and with this FAQ doing nothing to limit soup im still very skeptical
We dont lack enough AT, the number of guns we have with S8+ is sufficient. One problem is random shots and random damage, like the DDA. The other is high point costs for those units.
The question is are point drops enough? We still lack enough AT and have some really big problems with how our rules are written. Also necrons arent probably the only faction to get point drops and with this FAQ doing nothing to limit soup im still very skeptical
We dont lack enough AT, the number of guns we have with S8+ is sufficient. One problem is random shots and random damage, like the DDA. The other is high point costs for those units.
No it isn't. We have 5. One is on an vehicle. The other is on an expensive vehicle that no one takes Another is on surprisingly fragile infantry. One is on a flyer that can't even shoot at full accuracy. One is on a walker.
Neither of these can been spammed and are expensive. Every other army can field heavy weapons much more frequently than necrons. Nearly of our heavy weapons are vehicle based, and that's a problem, as that's one unit that can be gunned down and there goes our heavy weapons. Compare this to Space Marines, which can have lascannons in tac squads, lascannons in heavy squads, lascannons on vehicles, etc. Necrons cannot simply saturate the field with S8 weapons fire like the other armies can.
The question is are point drops enough? We still lack enough AT and have some really big problems with how our rules are written.
Also necrons arent probably the only faction to get point drops and with this FAQ doing nothing to limit soup im still very skeptical
We dont lack enough AT, the number of guns we have with S8+ is sufficient. One problem is random shots and random damage, like the DDA. The other is high point costs for those units.
No it isn't.
We have 5.
One is on an vehicle.
The other is on an expensive vehicle that no one takes
Another is on surprisingly fragile infantry.
One is on a flyer that can't even shoot at full accuracy.
One is on a walker.
Neither of these can been spammed and are expensive. Every other army can field heavy weapons much more frequently than necrons.
All of our heavy weapons are vehicle based, and that's a problem, as that's one unit that can be gunned down and there goes our heavy weapons. Compare this to Space Marines, which can have lascannons in tac squads, lascannons in heavy squads, lascannons on vehicles, etc.
Necrons cannot simply saturate the field with S8 weapons fire like the other armies can.
Thank you.
This PLUS the random damage makes for very poor AT in my eyes
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Huh, they couldn't before? Weird. Still would have been better if you could use them after the vehicle moves though.
No not better, that implies they were good and got better, less gak is the right sentence, because they were gak, continue to be gak but are now less gak. Just take a Nephrekh Battalion and include whatever units you'd put on the Tomb World in deep strike with the CP from the Nephrekh Battalion.
I know better fits, but it really is still gak. I wish I was willing to believe to believe that it isn't considered coming in from reinforcements. Or that they actually just fething fixed it by changing it to end of Movement phase, like I don't know, EVERY OTHER REINFORCEMENT RULE IN THE GAME.
And then, for the love of Szarek allow my Monoliths to shoot out of melee, 4 Orks should not be able to negate almost 400 pts worth of moving fortress until someone comes and saves the damsel in distress that is my Monolith. It's Titanic and practically immovable, let us have this.
Did you win any tournaments with your Lychguard as Troops?
Bizazedo wrote: That would be true if the FAQ change didn't say we treated them as disembarking from a transport. They're not considered reinforcements.
I know what you're getting at, that originally they're considered on the Tomb World, but the FAQ explicitly says to treat them when disembarking for all rules purposes All rules purposes. And that was added at the same time as the tactical reserves.
Like, let me ask you, why else would you change the wording to that as it only affects disembarking? Why not just leave it as is?
(Not saying I'm right, btw, just find it fascinating. I wouldn't do it yet without opponent buy-in).
They are considered to be reinforcements until they arrive.
After they arrive yes, they still can't arrive turn 1 though.
Because now you can move after disembarking.
I'd suggest everyone who reads rules they find ambiguous and rules in their own favour do this. As is though, there is nothing that says that they are not reinforcements while they are reinforcements.
Tied a game against Tau and won a game against Thousand Sons with my Orikan balance list.
List:
Spoiler:
73 Models Sautekh Battalion (5) 8 CP 1996
1 Lord (hyperphase sword) {Veil of Darkness} 76
1 Orikan the Diviner {Hyperlogical Strategist} 115
10 Warriors 120
18 Warriors 216
19 Warriors 228
1 Ghost Ark 160
10 Lychguard (warscythes) 300
5 Deathmarks 95
6 Destroyers (gauss cannons) 300
1 Doomsday Ark 193
1 Doomsday Ark 193
Tie vs Tau.
Spoiler:
My opponent had 5 HQs, 1 being the sneaky female commander, 1 being a regular commander and then 3 other support character. He also ran as many sniper drones as he could, some firewarriors, a single Riptide and a unit of Broadsides protected by 10 shield drones.
I forgot to bring my Deathmarks which was dumb, might have snuck in a victory if not for that. I put both my HQs in my Ghost Ark T1 to avoid the snipers. I ignored the Riptide and Broadsides pretty much the entire game because I had no way to get to my opponent's shield drones and my opponent was spending CP every turn to get a 3+ invul on his Riptide so I figured any shooting going into the suits would be wasted. Not sure if it was a good idea, I could have been really aggressive with my Doomsday Arks since they didn't have any good targets for the big profile of their gun anyway, that would probably have yielded better results. My Lychguard got teleported turn 1 with my Lord and killed a unit of Fire Warriors and an HQ I think, the Lord died to close combat attacks from a squad of Fire Warriors, not too terrible. At the end of the game I had Orikan and my Destroyers, both units hiding in a corner of the table because my opponent had more firepower left than I did. Orikan never used his improved profile for anything and melee wasn't a thing, I could have done with a regular Cryptek.
Win vs Thousand Sons
Spoiler:
Magnus, Ahriman, one or two Exalted Sorcs on discs, some Tzaangor sorcerer dudes, 2x6 Enlightened (the ones with the bows), 30 Tzaangor, 2x10 Rubrics in Rhinos.
Forgot my Deathmarks again... That's why they were in the list though, I've gotten pretty good at remembering all my start of turn stuff, now I just need to remember to DS T2/T3. I used the Veil of Darkness to move my Destroyers to a flank, my opponent had no way to deal with them so they just murdered stuff all game. I placed my Lord on top of a terrain feature he had no way to get down from, had I not done that I might have had a chance at the Objective game. Magnus killed my WL but I got him back with resurrection protocols, Magnus died to Lychguard and Doomsday Arks and between my Doomsday Arks and Destroyers I slowly wiped out the rest of his list. I was far behind on objectives turn 5 and would have lost, but the game continued to turn 6 and I wiped out my opponent. My opponent forgot to use his dark matter crystal to T1 charge, not sure how that would have changed the game, but he had 30 Tzaangors doing nothing except capturing an objective and taking heat from a Warrior blob. Orikan got empowered and survived with a single wound every turn for several turns against a unit Tzaangor enlightened. His aura was also nice for the Lychguard, he was definitely worth it in this game and Lychguard were okay, the ability to tank for Orikan was extremely nice.
The list is okay, very fun and feels very varied, but I think I'd do better with Mephrit Warrior spam with just a regular Cryptek and no Lychguard. The Lychguard being a priority take down isn't so bad since it allows me to keep my Destroyers alive for longer, but I could have just brought another unit of Destroyers. As is I don't see Lycguard being worth it if your opponent is going full tilt as my opponents were obviously bringing soft lists between Orks, Thousand Sons with Rubrics and Tau sniper spam. I'm not sure what to move onto next, perhabs some Doomscythe spam to try out the Stratagem. I still haven't done almost anything with the Tesseract Vault. I'm pretty sure that the DDAs and Destroyers were doing the majority of the heavy lifting for the list
The question is are point drops enough? We still lack enough AT and have some really big problems with how our rules are written.
Also necrons arent probably the only faction to get point drops and with this FAQ doing nothing to limit soup im still very skeptical
We dont lack enough AT, the number of guns we have with S8+ is sufficient. One problem is random shots and random damage, like the DDA. The other is high point costs for those units.
No it isn't.
We have 5.
One is on an vehicle.
The other is on an expensive vehicle that no one takes
Another is on surprisingly fragile infantry.
One is on a flyer that can't even shoot at full accuracy.
One is on a walker.
Neither of these can been spammed and are expensive. Every other army can field heavy weapons much more frequently than necrons.
Nearly all of our heavy weapons are vehicle based, and that's a problem, as that's one unit that can be gunned down and there goes our heavy weapons. Compare this to Space Marines, which can have lascannons in tac squads, lascannons in heavy squads, lascannons on vehicles, etc.
Necrons cannot simply saturate the field with S8 weapons fire like the other armies can.
Thank you.
This PLUS the random damage makes for very poor AT in my eyes
Yeah, its limited AT and random to boot.
This whole thing where a unit can only take a specific heavy weapon that can't be found anywhere else needs to go away. The only reason why it worked in 3rd was because Gauss was a swiss army knife; it worked on everything effectively well. After they changed the vehicle rules in 5th it stopped being as useful, and its certainly not as versatile in 8th.
Necrons simply need to have other weapon options like the other armies do so they can adapt to threats like everyone else.
Destroyers should have the option to take other weapons. Likewise for Heavy Destroyers.
Annihilation Barges should be able to take heavy gauss cannons.
Immortals should probably be given some sort of heavy weapon. Like a gauss cannon or a tesla cannon, or some sort of particle weapon. Not a destructor though or a heavy gauss cannon. It doesn't...feel right, I guess. Maybe because seeing an immortal with a gun like that would look silly.
You'd think that as much as they'd keep pushing this whole necrons with identity thing, they'd give them more varied loadouts.
You need 2 max anti-tank units. If the unit was doing insane damage and had insane survivability- you just need one. It all comes back to points cost as long as you have inefficient anti-tank units. If DDAs cost 120 points each and destroyers cost 30 pts each, necrons would have great antitank.
rvd1ofakind wrote: You need 2 max anti-tank units. If the unit was doing insane damage and had insane survivability- you just need one. It all comes back to points cost as long as you have inefficient anti-tank units. If DDAs cost 120 points each and destroyers cost 30 pts each, necrons would have great antitank.
I would still argue for more reliable dmg output on the DDAs (2D3 shots D3+3Dmg or D6min3)
Annihilation Barges should be able to take heavy gauss cannons.
Immortals should probably be given some sort of heavy weapon. Like a gauss cannon or a tesla cannon, or some sort of particle weapon.
Love this idea! Would also help if stalkers got a good price drop, and I feel like heavy Gauss cannons should get heavy 2 (the barges and stalkers could get heavy 4 twin cannons). Tesla destructors with either dmg 2, or str 8 would make a huge difference. Not sure which would be better though...
DDA needs to either auto hit or get a fixed 3/4 shots. This random shots with random dmg thing is stupid and needs changing for every army.
Once necrons have the tools to compete it's much easier to balance points. At the moment it just feels like whatever happens in CA it's not going to be enough...
I just want our old rules back in some format. Make Gauss weapons cause an additional MW to vehicles on a wound role of 6.
It'd make heavy destroyer's even more irrelevant I guess, but if we don't get anti-tank weapons on our infantry, we should be able to 'glance' stuff to death like we used to.
I do miss the kill-everything-ness of the Gauss. Now that everything is wounds-on-6, them simply giving it a -1AP over a normal Bolter just doesn't cut it. Mortal wounds are very powerful though, I'd be wary of handing out a mortal-wound generator to our basic guns! Plus would take away some of the Synaptic Disintegrator's schtick.
Yeah, mortal wounds are pretty disgusting. They should stay as a rarity. Maybe a simple +1 strength (not wound. That would mean a flayer could damage T10 units on a 5+) against vehicles would be enough, or +1 damage.
IanVanCheese wrote: I just want our old rules back in some format. Make Gauss weapons cause an additional MW to vehicles on a wound role of 6.
It'd make heavy destroyer's even more irrelevant I guess, but if we don't get anti-tank weapons on our infantry, we should be able to 'glance' stuff to death like we used to.
OMG this would fix so much of my problems! Was just getting stomped by BA and SW playing buddies today, and one of my biggest issues is handling big stuff. My SW buddy was rushing rhinos, stormfang, and ven dreads up at me and I was having issues even scratching the paint with two DDAs, Heavy Destroyers and a stalker (reg destroyers were in reserve). Granted popping smoke and using the -1 hit stratagem didn't help, but I was hoping I'd do SOMETHING.
At least this buff to gauss would make using infantry well worth it again. Currently have 10 gauss immortals and 40 warriors just kinda gathering dust.
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote: I do miss the kill-everything-ness of the Gauss. Now that everything is wounds-on-6, them simply giving it a -1AP over a normal Bolter just doesn't cut it. Mortal wounds are very powerful though, I'd be wary of handing out a mortal-wound generator to our basic guns! Plus would take away some of the Synaptic Disintegrator's schtick.
Maybe, but if it was limited to vehicles, it would keep them in check a bit. I don't think +1 Str is enough of a buff, and we already have ways to make Gauss get an extra -1 and it's not helping us take down armour.
With that said, a +1 to wound vs vehicles would work. We need something. Necrons units were designed around this idea that Gauss wrecked armour, hence no special/heavy weapons. Now that it doesn't, we don't have to usual options to deal with the big stuff. Also making Gauss scary to tanks again gives Warriors another reason to exist. ATM no one is running warriors.
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote: I do miss the kill-everything-ness of the Gauss. Now that everything is wounds-on-6, them simply giving it a -1AP over a normal Bolter just doesn't cut it. Mortal wounds are very powerful though, I'd be wary of handing out a mortal-wound generator to our basic guns! Plus would take away some of the Synaptic Disintegrator's schtick.
Then again, if Gauss weapons did mortal wounds on 6s, that would equate to ~4.44 mortal wounds being dished out on average by 20 warriors in rapid fire range. I feel like that's not gamebreaking, but still enough to have an impact. And it could be further balanced by making it only proc against vehicles, or the mortal wound replacing the regular damage on flayers and blasters.
Even if warriors could dish out mortal wounds I doubt it would be gamebreaking tbh. Just give them that very needed edge.
I agree as well, that its obvious they mean the last sentence for mono and nightscythe to overwrite any previous rules and as written i dont see many judges stopping it if at all.
Its still a hefty as heck tax to take a mono or nightscythe, until maybe C.A. but it is nice to have that option back.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Except there's the inconsistency of such a weapon only doing that to vehicles. Gauss used to be special when it could sound anything on a 6.
Gauss has always been more effective against vehicles than other targets though. While it always wounded on 6s against other models, the main strength of Gauss was that vehicles suffered a glancing hit. In earlier editions that could permanently cripple a vehicle, and in 7th a blob of warriors in rf would reliably kill any 3 hp or less vehicle in the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Besides, almost nothing had t8+ anyway, so always wounding on 6s barely ever even came into play outside of apocalypse games
If gauss were to get weird mortal wounds, I'd rather the exception be that they don't spread to multiple models in a unit, so the mortal wound generation would be a factor against hive tyrants and dreadnoughts but not guardsmen.
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote: I do miss the kill-everything-ness of the Gauss. Now that everything is wounds-on-6, them simply giving it a -1AP over a normal Bolter just doesn't cut it. Mortal wounds are very powerful though, I'd be wary of handing out a mortal-wound generator to our basic guns! Plus would take away some of the Synaptic Disintegrator's schtick.
Maybe, but if it was limited to vehicles, it would keep them in check a bit. I don't think +1 Str is enough of a buff, and we already have ways to make Gauss get an extra -1 and it's not helping us take down armour.
With that said, a +1 to wound vs vehicles would work. We need something. Necrons units were designed around this idea that Gauss wrecked armour, hence no special/heavy weapons. Now that it doesn't, we don't have to usual options to deal with the big stuff. Also making Gauss scary to tanks again gives Warriors another reason to exist. ATM no one is running warriors.
I run warriors, but only in games larger than 1000 points. They are overpriced (they probably need to be 10 points, for their armor, min squad size and range), but they are fairly effective against light infantry, and if used in conjunction with a Ghost Ark they can be a strong front line. The Ghost Ark is also a neat infantry killer; my opponents are always taken by surprise just how many shots it can churn out at short range.
You could use tesla, but I find that they tend to drop off against things with 5+ saves and relying on 6s to proc tend to lead to disappointment. They are more expensive too, and the fact that -1 modifiers remove the tesla ability is a huge problem. They should have kept it on natural 6s; necron lightning weapons from battlefleet gothic, which were most likely the source of inspiration for tesla, didn't care about things like holofields or other abilities that reduce weapon accuracy, and Tesla weapons in 5th procced on a natural 6 too.
No it isn't.
We have 5.
One is on an vehicle.
The other is on an expensive vehicle that no one takes
Another is on surprisingly fragile infantry.
One is on a flyer that can't even shoot at full accuracy.
One is on a walker.
No it isn't.
We have 5.
One is on an vehicle.
The other is on an expensive vehicle that no one takes
Another is on surprisingly fragile infantry.
One is on a flyer that can't even shoot at full accuracy.
One is on a walker.
No it isn't.
We have 5.
One is on an vehicle.
The other is on an expensive vehicle that no one takes
Another is on surprisingly fragile infantry.
One is on a flyer that can't even shoot at full accuracy.
One is on a walker.
Yes, they are expensive, which can be fixed with point drops. We dont lack AT.
Four of those are Forge World and one of those is single shot weapon. Not everyone has access to Forge World nor is willing to pay for model + yet another rulebook, and I don't consider a single use weapon that can fail to be viable anti-tank.
And that still doesn't change the fact that nearly every other army can take heavy weapons on more than 1 specific type of unit.
rvd1ofakind wrote: You need 2 max anti-tank units. If the unit was doing insane damage and had insane survivability- you just need one. It all comes back to points cost as long as you have inefficient anti-tank units. If DDAs cost 120 points each and destroyers cost 30 pts each, necrons would have great antitank.
You are not wrong here, but with the current points values of our anti-tank, it really leaves a lot to be desired, also I do not want necrons to be OP or anything, I feel that only a few things really need point reductions (transports mostly) and the rest could stand to get a little bump in the rules. A DDA for example having 3-4 shots instead of random would be amazing, 3 shots on the doom scythe always, perhaps QS on our flyers, ETC.
Four of those are Forge World and one of those is single shot weapon. Not everyone has access to Forge World nor is willing to pay for model + yet another rulebook, and I don't consider a single use weapon that can fail to be viable anti-tank.
And that still doesn't change the fact that nearly every other army can take heavy weapons on more than 1 specific type of unit.
That doesnt change the fact that we have sufficient numbers of AT guns. I would even consider imotekhs storm ability an AT gun. One shot only, but highly unlikely to fail, with a command re-roll. Same for the ctans, their powers deal MW, perfect AT. Very, very few vehicles have a FNP ability.
Four of those are Forge World and one of those is single shot weapon. Not everyone has access to Forge World nor is willing to pay for model + yet another rulebook, and I don't consider a single use weapon that can fail to be viable anti-tank.
And that still doesn't change the fact that nearly every other army can take heavy weapons on more than 1 specific type of unit.
That doesnt change the fact that we have sufficient numbers of AT guns. I would even consider imotekhs storm ability an AT gun. One shot only, but highly unlikely to fail, with a command re-roll. Same for the ctans, their powers deal MW, perfect AT. Very, very few vehicles have a FNP ability.
Just because they exist doesn't mean they're good, or can be fielded in sufficient quantities.
Just because they exist doesn't mean they're good, or can be fielded in sufficient quantities.
Once they get point drops they can be fielded in sufficient quantities.
Did anyone realize that wraith got nerfed even more by the new FLY movement rule ? They arent infantry, so they cant charge through walls of ruins, like infantry can do. They have to fly inside the ruin in the movement phase, delaying their charge another turn.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Except there's the inconsistency of such a weapon only doing that to vehicles. Gauss used to be special when it could sound anything on a 6.
Gauss has always been more effective against vehicles than other targets though. While it always wounded on 6s against other models, the main strength of Gauss was that vehicles suffered a glancing hit. In earlier editions that could permanently cripple a vehicle, and in 7th a blob of warriors in rf would reliably kill any 3 hp or less vehicle in the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Besides, almost nothing had t8+ anyway, so always wounding on 6s barely ever even came into play outside of apocalypse games
Actually the old wounding chart had it so S4 couldn't hurt T7. While not often happening, it still happened.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Except there's the inconsistency of such a weapon only doing that to vehicles. Gauss used to be special when it could sound anything on a 6.
Gauss has always been more effective against vehicles than other targets though. While it always wounded on 6s against other models, the main strength of Gauss was that vehicles suffered a glancing hit. In earlier editions that could permanently cripple a vehicle, and in 7th a blob of warriors in rf would reliably kill any 3 hp or less vehicle in the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Besides, almost nothing had t8+ anyway, so always wounding on 6s barely ever even came into play outside of apocalypse games
Actually the old wounding chart had it so S4 couldn't hurt T7. While not often happening, it still happened.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Except there's the inconsistency of such a weapon only doing that to vehicles. Gauss used to be special when it could sound anything on a 6.
Gauss has always been more effective against vehicles than other targets though. While it always wounded on 6s against other models, the main strength of Gauss was that vehicles suffered a glancing hit. In earlier editions that could permanently cripple a vehicle, and in 7th a blob of warriors in rf would reliably kill any 3 hp or less vehicle in the game.
More importantly the vehicles didn't have saves, whereas things with toughness did. Making it a vehicle killer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Besides, almost nothing had t8+ anyway, so always wounding on 6s barely ever even came into play outside of apocalypse games
Actually the old wounding chart had it so S4 couldn't hurt T7. While not often happening, it still happened.
Anyway, thought I might as well give some feed back about the game I had against nids -
Mission was Contact Lost, Deployment was Vanguard strike. Game was 1250 points.
My list - Novokh Dynasty Lord (Lord of War with immortal pride, warscythe) Cryptek (Veil of Darkness carrier, canoptek cloak) 15 warriors Ghost Ark 5 scytheguard 5 shieldguard 3 destroyers 3 scarabs 3 scarabs 5 tesla immortals 6 gauss immortals
His list - Hive Kraken Tyrant with Cameleonic Mutation, heavy venom cannon, 2 deathspitters with slimer maggots (Forgot his trait. I think it was synaptic lynchpin.) Two Thornbacks with that -1 to hit biomorph, stranglethorn cannon and more deathspitters with slimer maggots (or maybe they were just carnifexes. There's like, 3 entries for them now. Nids are weird, it was so simple in 4th ed. Just one entry and you could kit them how you want) 27 hormagants 17 termagants, all with devourers. I think at least 10 genestealers Broodlord 3 Hive Guard with impaler cannons (hate these bloody things. You will learn to hate them)
It was a close match, but in the end it was a Necron victory, at about 10-6 by turn 6. Can't really give a true turn by turn report as a lot of stuff happened, but here's a brief summary -
Immortal Pride is still useless at dispelling
Ghost Arks are surprisingly good anti-infantry. Warriors are also pretty good anti-infantry.
Always have some sort of deepstrike unit to get rid of annoying artillery like units, such as hive guard.
Monsters no longer ignore armor in 8th unless they have equipment that does that. This is huge, as it means that depending on your opponent's load out, you could totally get into combat with destroyers and not worry about losing them in a single turn. His tyrant was built for shooting and did not have wings, which means that charging him with destroyers means that he can't shoot if he leaves, and he can't deal much damage in CC due to the lack of AP and multiple damage. Likewise with dakka-fexes. You could even do the same with scytheguard.
Remember that psykers can't cast the same power in a turn, and that the rules for that are in the psychic section. He didn't, I knew about but couldn't find it (thought it was in the matched game rules), and lost my scytheguard for my trouble to smite spam.
If your opponent is fielding any sort of weapon that has multiple shots on their basic infantry en masse, be very wary and try to reduce their numbers. I underestimated how dangerous devourer gaunts are and lost my warriors. At least they killed his broodlord though.
When fighting against fast buggers like tyranids, always be aware of the possibility of a turn one charge. Hormagants and Genestealers can totally do that, though in my case I got lucky with the genestealers.
Maelstrom can be fickle and cruel. First 2 turns the objectives I got were terrible, but then it swung in my favor and my opponent got the terrible objectives.
Always try to get bonus VP missions. Killing his Hive Tyrant and reaching his back deployment zone gave me extra VP. If you get the Dust and Ashes mission, put it on your fastest character and hide him. Easy VP.
I think he may have flubbed some rules, because when trying to find the names of their equipment, I couldn't find anything that the termagants could take that can reduce armor by one, or anything that thornbacks could take that confers a -1 to hit modifier against them. Edit : Ah no, now that I think of it, the thornbacks might have just been generic carnifexes. So the -1 modifier from the spore cysts would make sense.
Remember that psykers can't cast the same power in a turn, and that the rules for that are in the psychic section. He didn't, I knew about but couldn't find it (thought it was in the matched game rules), and lost my scytheguard for my trouble to smite spam..
Smite is exempt from this, each smite needs +1 to cast (5 for first, 6 next, etc. while still doing D6 on 11 or 12)
and yes it should be in the matched play section as it's not a rule for Narrative.
otherwise well played, especially vs the HiveGuard .. trying to get around them is a trick in itself, the damn things are nasty.
Kraken Genestealers are amazing .. pick best from 3D6 to advance, 1CP to double the distance (possible 20" advance) and then charge ... yeah they be Mean and nasty!
Remember that psykers can't cast the same power in a turn, and that the rules for that are in the psychic section. He didn't, I knew about but couldn't find it (thought it was in the matched game rules), and lost my scytheguard for my trouble to smite spam..
Smite is exempt from this, each smite needs +1 to cast (5 for first, 6 next, etc. while still doing D6 on 11 or 12)
and yes it should be in the matched play section as it's not a rule for Narrative.
otherwise well played, especially vs the HiveGuard .. trying to get around them is a trick in itself, the damn things are nasty.
Kraken Genestealers are amazing .. pick best from 3D6 to advance, 1CP to double the distance (possible 20" advance) and then charge ... yeah they be Mean and nasty!
Nope, read the rules under the psychic section in the brb NOT the matched play section. A psychic power cannot be cast the same power in the same turn, smite included. The +1 penalty is only if another psyker casts smite in the same turn as the first one. The example in the even gives an example of this. Notice how it doesn't have the psyker casting the smite again? Its because GW assumes that its clear to everyone that it can't do that. Its something a lot of people seem to get wrong, and GW needs to put their foot down and reiterate it.
Also, I didn't get around the hive guard. The reason why I added the part about deepstrikers was because I didn't have them available (well, other than the veil, but I prefer to keep that reserved for emergencies), so throughout the game they shot at me until I finally got the destroyers in range by turn 5. And that's only because I made some really lucky saves on them. That said, even if I did have deep strikers it probably wouldn't have helped much. He had the guard right up against the corner behind the carnifexes and a big crate, so even if I did veil them in, used deathmarks (again, not in the army), or used the crypt (impossible to do with Novokh for obvious reasons), it probably wouldn't have been effective as I wouldn't have been in effective range.
Weapons that ignore LoS are really good in this edition. Every army should have that sort of option. Especially of the 36" range variety.
Remember that psykers can't cast the same power in a turn, and that the rules for that are in the psychic section. He didn't, I knew about but couldn't find it (thought it was in the matched game rules), and lost my scytheguard for my trouble to smite spam..
Smite is exempt from this, each smite needs +1 to cast (5 for first, 6 next, etc. while still doing D6 on 11 or 12)
and yes it should be in the matched play section as it's not a rule for Narrative.
otherwise well played, especially vs the HiveGuard .. trying to get around them is a trick in itself, the damn things are nasty.
Kraken Genestealers are amazing .. pick best from 3D6 to advance, 1CP to double the distance (possible 20" advance) and then charge ... yeah they be Mean and nasty!
Nope, read the rules under the psychic section in the brb NOT the matched play section. A psychic power cannot be cast the same power in the same turn, smite included. The +1 penalty is only if another psyker casts smite in the same turn as the first one. The example in the even gives an example of this. Notice how it doesn't have the psyker casting the smite again? Its because GW assumes that its clear to everyone that it can't do that. Its something a lot of people seem to get wrong, and GW needs to put their foot down and reiterate it.
Also, I didn't get around the hive guard. The reason why I added the part about deepstrikers was because I didn't have them available (well, other than the veil, but I prefer to keep that reserved for emergencies), so throughout the game they shot at me until I finally got the destroyers in range by turn 5. And that's only because I made some really lucky saves on them. That said, even if I did have deep strikers it probably wouldn't have helped much. He had the guard right up against the corner behind the carnifexes and a big crate, so even if I did veil them in, used deathmarks (again, not in the army), or used the crypt (impossible to do with Novokh for obvious reasons), it probably wouldn't have been effective as I wouldn't have been in effective range.
Weapons that ignore LoS are really good in this edition. Every army should have that sort of option. Especially of the 36" range variety.
Smite is specifically mentioned as something that can be spammed. Thus why they added the rule that each time Smite is cast beyond the first (with some exceptions) is at +1 cost (5 first, 6 second, 7 third, etc max of 11).
Remember that psykers can't cast the same power in a turn, and that the rules for that are in the psychic section. He didn't, I knew about but couldn't find it (thought it was in the matched game rules), and lost my scytheguard for my trouble to smite spam..
Smite is exempt from this, each smite needs +1 to cast (5 for first, 6 next, etc. while still doing D6 on 11 or 12)
and yes it should be in the matched play section as it's not a rule for Narrative.
otherwise well played, especially vs the HiveGuard .. trying to get around them is a trick in itself, the damn things are nasty.
Kraken Genestealers are amazing .. pick best from 3D6 to advance, 1CP to double the distance (possible 20" advance) and then charge ... yeah they be Mean and nasty!
Nope, read the rules under the psychic section in the brb NOT the matched play section. A psychic power cannot be cast the same power in the same turn, smite included.
The +1 penalty is only if another psyker casts smite in the same turn as the first one. The example in the even gives an example of this. Notice how it doesn't have the psyker casting the smite again? Its because GW assumes that its clear to everyone that it can't do that.
Its something a lot of people seem to get wrong, and GW needs to put their foot down and reiterate it.
Also, I didn't get around the hive guard. The reason why I added the part about deepstrikers was because I didn't have them available (well, other than the veil, but I prefer to keep that reserved for emergencies), so throughout the game they shot at me until I finally got the destroyers in range by turn 5. And that's only because I made some really lucky saves on them.
That said, even if I did have deep strikers it probably wouldn't have helped much. He had the guard right up against the corner behind the carnifexes and a big crate, so even if I did veil them in, used deathmarks (again, not in the army), or used the crypt (impossible to do with Novokh for obvious reasons), it probably wouldn't have been effective as I wouldn't have been in effective range.
Weapons that ignore LoS are really good in this edition. Every army should have that sort of option. Especially of the 36" range variety.
Smite is specifically mentioned as something that can be spammed. Thus why they added the rule that each time Smite is cast beyond the first (with some exceptions) is at +1 cost (5 first, 6 second, 7 third, etc max of 11).
Yes, by another psyker. Not by the same one.
"Psychic Focus : With the exception of Smite, each psychic power can only be attempted once per turn, rather than once per psyker per turn" pg 215
"A psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once in a turn" pg 178
The rule on pg 215 does not over rule the one on pg 178. This is something GW really needs to make clear, because apparently a lot of people are getting it wrong.
The smite rule in the FAQ just makes it so that if another psyker casts smite, they have to add +1 to their roll. It does not override the core psychic rule on pg178
torblind wrote: Smites can only be cast once by a psyker each phase. This has been clarified in multiple YMDC posts and the wording really leaves little doubt.
How did you cut down the genestealers? Did they charge into scarabs, you then flew off and tesla'd them?
And yet people get it wrong, just because the FAQ doesn't say "A psyker cannot cast the same power twice in the same turn, smite included".
Poorly, actually. Its quite funny, first he tried doing a first turn charge against my scarabs on my right flank, failed, then I charged his genestealers with scarabs and shieldguard. I did shoot him a little bit, but since my warriors were engaged with hormagaunts and since the tesla immortals were on the other flank, I only had my gauss immortals and ark available. Between his invul and catalyst (think that's the one that gives 5+ FNP) and my terrible rolling, he lost like, 2 genestealers. Remember that it was Vanguard strike, so the flank was pretty far away. I did try dispelling catalyst, but Immortal Pride is crap at that. The Lychguard and scarabs killed some more, reducing them to 6. There were more than 10, less than 20. Lets settle with "more than I'd like in my face on the first turn". I know its at least 10 because when I killed enough of them he said he longer got their bonus. Idk, it was enough to be a huge problem.
Then he disengaged with the stealers, shot the scarabs off the table, shot the lychguard until there was one left with 1 wound (thank you shield stratagem. Tore off 2 wounds a carnifex too), and charged the lychguard with the stealers (apparently kraken can do that) because he really didn't want them coming back. Hilariously enough, he only failed 2 saves. Had he failed 1 or still had 2 wounds I would have rerolled it, but alas it finally died. Still, drew nearly everyone's fire and stopped the genestealers from moving closer to my guns, so good job then. Gauss immortals finished them off. Reduced them to 2 in shooting phase (again, terrible rolling + invuls), and charged. He moved the stealers a bit closer when he consolidated, so they weren't terribly exposed.
I should probably add that by the end of the game, I had my lord, ark, 2 scarabs, destroyers, cryptek and tesla immortals left, and he had nothing. It was a brutal battle. I got super lucky during the last few turns, because my destroyers just wouldn't die, even with 5+ and 4+ saves from all of the impaler and deathspitter shots. Turns out destroyers can take quite a bit of punishment provided they aren't hit by too many multiple damage shots or ap modifiers.
Even though the lychguard all died, I still liked their performance. They were a nice counter charge unit that forced him to draw his attention to them, leaving other parts of my army intact. Had he used the smite properly, the scytheguard might have even killed his Tyrant instead of my destroyers and lord doing it.
In case anyone is wondering how I dealt with Hive Guard without deepstrikers or losing half my army to them; I stayed out of range. Its a 6'x4' field and they are slow units with 36" range guns that he put in the corner. Which is the worse place to put a unit like that, as they can only really hit stuff that are around the middle of the table. I just kept my important units away from the middle. The scarabs and the shieldguard I had on my flank took some hits, but overall casualties from Hive Guard were quite few. By the time I moved into range of them most of his forces were already dead.
The Doomsday Ark is really good for this reason, as due to its 72" range the only way to avoid getting shot at is to break line of sight or hug the furthest table edge. If you do what I do and follow the rule of thumb of having 25% of the board covered by terrain (spread out, obviously. I found this is the perfect amount of terrain to use. Not too cluttered, but not too open. Its a good idea to have a LoS blocker in the middle of the table too, to make it fair), then there should be a firing line somewhere that your opponent has to avoid or get shot at. If I had one then dealing with his carnifexes would have been so much easier, as whilst the Hive Guard could stay hidden, the dakkafexes still need LoS.
Hey so I haven't been playing with my robots for some considerable time now, however im super pumped for the new FW walker. Thing looks insane! Has there been any new leaks regarding its profile besides what was released by GW?
Lord with HyperPhase Sword
Overlord with VoD, Staff of Light
x10 Tesla Immortals
x10 Telsa immortals
x10 Warriors
x4 Scarabs to absorb smites and turn 1 knight charges
x5 Wraiths
x6 Destroyers
Doomsday Ark
Gauss Pylon
I figure between the DDA, Pylon, and Destroyers with EP, I should almost certainly kill the knight (Likely a Gallant) turn 1.
Then, the pylon starts blasting drones, and dda switches to tanks. Destroyers play pinch hitters.
Thoughts?
So, quick-takes update. This game went very, very smoothly. Ended up losing the Destroyers to Plasma and Blight Launchers, Wraiths to assorted focus fire and plague tanks, and the scarabs to smites as intended.
Pylon is more than a match for a solo Knight, rolled hot for the number of shots, and it was all downhill from there. Despite the high price tag, its certainly worth it. Tuck it into a corner with bubble wrap and decent LOS and it just devastates. Solo DDA paired with the Pylon was ok. About what I expected.
I really wish I had a few more points to sub the warriors for more immortals, but there is 0 wiggle room for it. Ah well.
What's your take on Nephrek Tesla Immortals? I need two cheap Troop choices to fill out my batallion and I was thinking about getting two 5-man squads of those. With Nephrek they are pretty mobile (for Necron Infantry anyway) and after advancing they can still pop off 10 shots on GEQs.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Except there's the inconsistency of such a weapon only doing that to vehicles. Gauss used to be special when it could sound anything on a 6.
Gauss has always been more effective against vehicles than other targets though. While it always wounded on 6s against other models, the main strength of Gauss was that vehicles suffered a glancing hit. In earlier editions that could permanently cripple a vehicle, and in 7th a blob of warriors in rf would reliably kill any 3 hp or less vehicle in the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Besides, almost nothing had t8+ anyway, so always wounding on 6s barely ever even came into play outside of apocalypse games
Actually the old wounding chart had it so S4 couldn't hurt T7. While not often happening, it still happened.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Except there's the inconsistency of such a weapon only doing that to vehicles. Gauss used to be special when it could sound anything on a 6.
Gauss has always been more effective against vehicles than other targets though. While it always wounded on 6s against other models, the main strength of Gauss was that vehicles suffered a glancing hit. In earlier editions that could permanently cripple a vehicle, and in 7th a blob of warriors in rf would reliably kill any 3 hp or less vehicle in the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Besides, almost nothing had t8+ anyway, so always wounding on 6s barely ever even came into play outside of apocalypse games
Actually the old wounding chart had it so S4 couldn't hurt T7. While not often happening, it still happened.
S4 in 7th wounded T7 on a 6.
I was talking about 4th-5th I apologize.
No, even in 4-5th S4 wounded T7 on a 6 and couldn't hurt T8. Unless they were gauss. Bolters couldn't hurt wraithlords, but flayers could. Not that it was that effective, but they could.
Ynnari's main trick and defining army feature is soul burst, which basically gives one of their units a free action every time a unit dies on either side (I think there's a once per phase restriction on it but I don't quite recall). You mostly need to worry about shining spears, which are a fast bike assault unit, and dark reapers, which are a long range heavy support that carry an anti-everything missile launcher.
As for how to fight them... shrug? I've never actually won a game against Ynnari so I don't feel like I can testify to that. They don't have a death hex equivalent so wraiths might help.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Except there's the inconsistency of such a weapon only doing that to vehicles. Gauss used to be special when it could sound anything on a 6.
Gauss has always been more effective against vehicles than other targets though. While it always wounded on 6s against other models, the main strength of Gauss was that vehicles suffered a glancing hit. In earlier editions that could permanently cripple a vehicle, and in 7th a blob of warriors in rf would reliably kill any 3 hp or less vehicle in the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Besides, almost nothing had t8+ anyway, so always wounding on 6s barely ever even came into play outside of apocalypse games
Actually the old wounding chart had it so S4 couldn't hurt T7. While not often happening, it still happened.
S4 in 7th wounded T7 on a 6.
I was talking about 4th-5th I apologize.
No, even in 4-5th S4 wounded T7 on a 6 and couldn't hurt T8.
Unless they were gauss. Bolters couldn't hurt wraithlords, but flayers could. Not that it was that effective, but they could.
I'm like absolutely positive S4 couldn't touch T7 in 4th. Lord knows where my rulebook would even be though.
How would you build a tournament list around the Deceiver there days
I have had some success with Mephrit silver tide bringing warriors into RF range turn 1, but what else could one to mix things up.
Sword and board lychguard? Anrakyr? Even shifting sideways in own deployment zone could have advantages
C'tan work very well with the Deceiver, the 9" bubble smite can be insane if you manage to get two or even three off in the first turn you're really doing some damage. Tesseract Vaults are are pretty nice with the Deceiver if you are playing against someone who is trying to avoid your Vault(s). A single Vault also makes it easier to put the right powers on the right models since with the Deceiver, the Nightbringer and a Vault you have 8 powers, which means you can take two powers twice. Doing a suicide run with C'tan is pretty fun against armies based on aura synergy, not only do they have to deal with the massive damage of your aura powers they also have to deal with you exploding.
A Ghost Ark can unload it's contents which can charge in the same turn whether an HQ or 10 or even a measly 10-man Warrior unit meant to tie up tanks that aren't properly bubbled up.
Sword and board Lychguard are never good, Warscythes pack a punch and can work if you're bringing a metric ton of Destroyers to take heat off them. Anrakyr brings too little value to transport with the Deceiver IMO, I'd rather bring another unit of Lychguard.
The traditional thing was to bring Wraiths and Scarabs along, those still aren't terrible choices, but I'm not too hooked on them since the FLY nerf.
Doctoralex wrote: I got a 2v2 tourney coming up this weekend. Me and my buddy are going over each faction and kind of speculating what we can expect.
However, there is one army neither of us has any experience with, nor do I see them in any battle-reports online.
Ynarri.
Can you guys tell me what their strengths/weaknesses are? What kind of tricks do we need to be weary of? What are their key units?
When a unit dies within 7" of a non-vehicle Ynnari unit it gets to move, shoot, charge or fight. There's an HQ choice that has a psychic power that allows a unit to do it. Avoid killing units near Ynnari units, just whittle them down, they don't get back up .
Played a round vs Ynnari with a Sautekh double Tesseract Vault List. Scored a thousand pts worth of casualties and my opponent surrendered.
Spoiler:
I brought Sam Henley's list which he did well with at some tournament, except everything I brought was Sautekh while I think he brought Nihilakh Vaults and he might have had some different Relics.
1 Cryptek (staff of light + canoptek cloak + the abyssal staff) 85
5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 85
5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 85
5 Immortals (tesla carbines) 85
1 Doomsday Ark 193
1 Doomsday Ark 193
1 Doomsday Ark 193
1 Tesseract Vault 496
1 Tesseract Vault 496
My opponent had a couple units of Shining Spears, a unit of Dark Reapers, three Dark Eldar gunboats and some assorted bits and bobs.
I dealt around 15 MWs with the Vaults to some Shining Spears which were deployed right at the edge of his DZ for some reason, his Warlock with the -1 Sv power got popped because it was within 18" of a Vault. My DDAs popped most of his Dark Reapers. Shining Spears took fire from DDAs because they were within range of my entire army, they had 1 model and 2 models left respectively, 2 models left on the Dark Reapers. I forgot to use the Stratagem to get another power off, not that I really needed it. My opponent could have saved one of the units with the heroism Strat but chose just to take the morale tests, they all died and he surrendered.
My opponent could have paid 2 CP to grab cover for his bikes so he'd have a 2+ instead of 3+ against the 35 AP- and 30 AP-1 shots I had, second he could not have put them in range of my entire army, I was likely to go first, not using insane heroism was silly.
I'm not sure how bad I feel, the game was dumb and I laughed at how bad the game was, my opponent definitely wasn't having fun though, but he was bringing just as competitive an army as I was. Still felt bad though, not much of a game, more a one-sided slaughter, definitely showed the potential power of a multi-Vault list, but I've seen how bad Vaults do against list that play defensively and just hang back.
So Ynnari are like the opposite of necrons? Instead of wiping them out at once, you have to grind them down slowly?
Which ones are Ynnari units? Aren't they just a faction, where everything in the list could be Ynnari, or are there specific things to look out for?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So Ynnari are like the opposite of necrons? Instead of wiping them out at once, you have to grind them down slowly?
Which ones are Ynnari units? Aren't they just a faction, where everything in the list could be Ynnari, or are there specific things to look out for?
Ynnari are in the same index as Necrons, if you want all the details you might as well read them yourself. Aeldari units can give up their Craftworld/Cult/Kabal trait to get the Soulburst ability, but as long as they have a Craftworld/Kabal Detachment they can still use the Craftworld/Kabal Stratagems on the Ynnari units.
Ynnari units with lots of damage output or high mobility are scary, Wraithflamers used to be insane, now it's mostly Dark Reapers and Shining Spears I think. Ynnari aren't really that much stronger than Codex Craftworlds or Codex Drukhari it seems, playing around their strengths is probably a lot easier than playing around -1 to hit or 6+ FNP. But if you let those Dark Reapers get multiple turns of shooting twice with their full number of models off you're going to get hurt real bad. Killing Yvraine or the Dark Reapers seems absolutely essential, but they can do some movement shenanigans after shooting so they can be really hard to get rid off depending on terrain. Getting rid of the Doom Farseer and the Jinx Warlock are also really important, especially if you have any big important units. Getting to shoot Dark Reapers before they shoot is only going to be a thing against someone who doesn't know what they're doing I think. Maybe my opponent thought I wouldn't "waste" Dd6 weapons on them and would let him trigger Soulburst by killing a Ravager.
Sword and board Lychguard are never good, Warscythes pack a punch and can work if you're bringing a metric ton of Destroyers to take heat off them. Anrakyr brings too little value to transport with the Deceiver IMO, I'd rather bring another unit of Lychguard.
I was thinking about using them in 1500 points Battalion in conjunction with Cryptek (Veil) + Zandrekh and Vargard to bring a 10 man squad into the enemies face and I figured that the Sword and Board ones are preferable due to their 4+ invul. save since they will be rather exposed after deleting their target in the first turn.
With the DISPERSION FIELD AMPLIFICATION-stratagem they even get a 3+ invul for the entire enemy shooting phase plus the MW on 6s and there will most likely only be characters in the same area, so they are pretty much the only thing that can be targeted if done right. For T7 targets, there is always the DISRUPTION FIELDS-stratagem.
It's gimmicky and expensive, but it sounds like a fun thing to do at 1,5k points.
It's gimmicky and expensive, but it sounds like a fun thing to do at 1,5k points.
It is fun, I used that type of list against Grey Knights and we had a good game. I wouldn't bring it to a tournament unless I was looking for a pity prize.
Great, I'm tempted to try this exact gimmick against a Tyranid friend of mine, might steal that list for later
It should at least be fun. I recommend charging small bugs with destroyers when the opportunity presents itself. They'll kill half a dozen and shrug off the return attacks, and if you can lock the bugs in CC you can't be shot. In your turn you can fall back and shoot thanks to fly.
While the Monolith is still quite bad, it does offer tremendous flexibility once its on the board. With the dimensional corridor strat I had the option of sending the destroyers anywhere within 13" of the monolith (~32" diameter circle) to get shots. Had the Lychguard survived past turn 1 there would have been a ~38" diameter circle centered on the monolith that they could have reliably charged things in. My 5x Immortal "grot squads" could use it to grab any objectives within ~15.5" of the 'lith (~36" diameter circle). If CA2018 gives them a decent point cost reduction I'd be tempted to use 2 Monoliths which could provide excellent board control.
Edit:
Here's a very silly list that can hit ridiculously hard if it gets first turn:
Zandrekh
Obyron
Cryptek w/veil
10x Scytheguard
20x Flayed Ones
Deceiver
5x Destroyers
3x Scarabs
3x Scarabs
Monolith
-Deceiver moves himself, the Monolith, and Zandrekh to within 12" of the enemy.
-The Lychguard Dimaensional Corridor for a turn 1 charge.
-Obyron Ghostwalks the Flayed ones to Zandrekh for a T1 charge
-The Cryptek Veils the Destroyers for much shooting.
So the whole army (except 6 Scarabs) teleports into the opponents face turn 1.
It should at least be fun. I recommend charging small bugs with destroyers when the opportunity presents itself. They'll kill half a dozen and shrug off the return attacks, and if you can lock the bugs in CC you can't be shot. In your turn you can fall back and shoot thanks to fly.
How are you locking 24 gaunts in CC with your 6 destroyers ?
Here's a very silly list that can hit ridiculously hard if it gets first turn:
Zandrekh
Obyron
Cryptek w/veil
10x Scytheguard
20x Flayed Ones
Deceiver
5x Destroyers
3x Scarabs
3x Scarabs
Monolith
-Deceiver moves himself, the Monolith, and Zandrekh to within 12" of the enemy.
-The Lychguard Dimaensional Corridor for a turn 1 charge.
-Obyron Ghostwalks the Flayed ones to Zandrekh for a T1 charge
-The Cryptek Veils the Destroyers for much shooting.
So the whole army (except 6 Scarabs) teleports into the opponents face turn 1.
Big downside is your list only really works if you roll a 3 on the D3. The deceiver and other units must stay more than 12" away from enemy models. The lychguard must be setup wholly within 3" of the monolith, which means they are 9.1" away from enemy models. Turn 1 charge is only 28% successful. Obyron ghostwalk works fine though, the flayed ones would be 5.1" from the enemy. But they are mediocre, not worth the points. Another downside is if nemesor would lose a wound. RAW, the lychguard would suffer a MW on 2+ AND obyron would also suffer a MW on 2+, if they are within 3" of nemesor.
So, you need a 3 on your D3 and the lychguard would need to roll a 9 to charge T1 for your list to wor,k and you would attack 90 horrors, 90 cultists, or whatever chaff there is.
How are you locking 24 gaunts in CC with your 6 destroyers ?
One way would be(if possible) charge unit A but pile into unit B(but not charge that) so that one model is unable to move out thus preventing unit from falling back. Trickier now that you can't move over enemy in assault phase and can't declare them as charge target as obviously trapped one will be taken as casualty.
Personally I hate this kind of gaming but ah well assault armies are often dependant on this. Wish GW would balance assault armies while removing this kind of gaming
How are you locking 24 gaunts in CC with your 6 destroyers ?
Big downside is your list only really works if you roll a 3 on the D3. The deceiver and other units must stay more than 12" away from enemy models. The lychguard must be setup wholly within 3" of the monolith, which means they are 9.1" away from enemy models. Turn 1 charge is only 28% successful. Obyron ghostwalk works fine though, the flayed ones would be 5.1" from the enemy. But they are mediocre, not worth the points. Another downside is if nemesor would lose a wound. RAW, the lychguard would suffer a MW on 2+ AND obyron would also suffer a MW on 2+, if they are within 3" of nemesor.
So, you need a 3 on your D3 and the lychguard would need to roll a 9 to charge T1 for your list to wor,k and you would attack 90 horrors, 90 cultists, or whatever chaff there is.
Locking units in CC: After making your attacks, you consolidate in such a way that 1 of the enemy models is surrounded and cannot fall back. You only need to lock one model to prevent a whole unit from falling back. Your opponent may be able to prevent this with careful casualty removal. It's a very fiddly technique, but it's always worth keeping an eye out for the opportunity.
The deceiver moves himself + D3 units, so a 3+ is required to take 2 units with him (I think you can still use a CP to reroll this for a 8/9 chance). Failing that, the cryptek can veil Zandrekh, then Obyron can bring the Flayed Ones, leaving the Destroyers to their own devices.
As per the new FAQ you can now move after exiting the Monolith, so the back of the Lychguards bases will be 8" from the front of the Lith at the end of the movement phase. If the monolith was 12" from the enemy that leaves them with a 3" charge.
If you go first it is two guaranteed first turn charges.
As for screens; it has to be a good screen, and well positioned. This attack can come from anywhere along the opponents battle line. You have a Monolith and destroyers to clear the screens. The two assault units will be inches away from said screens, so if they are cleared in the shooting phase you can charge things deployed close behind them.
Also, Zandrekh is a very small model, so your opponent needs to make sure they leave absolutely no gaps behind their lines or they'll get Flayed Ones in the bum.
In addition, you maybe able to use the aforementioned trick to lock screening units in combat and prevent you from being shot. Zandrekh + Obryon allow you to leave combat and charge again in the same turn, so if you do lock a screen (or get tar-pitted) you can go after something else in your turn.
But yes, this list could be heavily neutered by good screening. Although your opponent does then have a horde of angry robots with Cryptek buffs right in their face.
Ultimately the list is bad because if you go second the whole trick will be telegraphed a turn in advance, and the monolith being destroyed stops it in it's tracks.
Edit: Some further thoughts: With Zandrekh, Obyron, a Veil-tek, and a powerful CC unit, you only need a gap big enough for two bases to be 9" away from enemy models in order to launch a first turn assault. In my experience such gaps are very common in battle lines trying to defend themselves from deep strike shenanigans. It's not the combo the list is going for, but is a nice sneaky fallback option for when you go second or get screened out.
True, the lychguard can now move after being set up from the monolith. Still, an extremely expensive way to get turn 1 charges. Monolith, cryptek, obyron and nemesor are ~800(!) points. As for lócking a single model up with destroyers, that seems very unlikely, FLY doesnt ignore models anymore in the charge/fight phase.
Yeah fly doesn't help anymore. It's just a trick many units can use to their advantage when the opportunity presents itself. I've done it before with Destroyers against 5 man marine scout units that have advance deployed. It's very easy in that scenario.
Other thoughts on possible teleport shenanigans:
On any given turn you can Dimensional Corridor Zandrekh out of a monolith (average ~12" with an advance), then Ghostwalk Obyron and a CC unit 6" from Zan, then charge an average of 8" (7" charge to within an inch).
12+6+8= 26
So with all those pieces in play you can charge at anything within a 58" diameter circle centered on the Monolith.
The only requirement being that you have 1CP and Obyron is within 6" of the CC unit you want. You could pull a unit out of assault and use it to charge something on the other side of the board. Then do it again next turn!
I feel like all my lists in the foreseeable future will contain Zan + Oby, a Veil-tek, Monolith, and deceiver for maximum teleporting action. It might not be good, but it will be interesting.
If they get a massive points drop or a good invulnerable save (maybe Q-shields) I could see a Two Monolith list working. Popping units between them and being a large block of wounds to chew through. Remember that melee armies love to lock units in combat to leapfrog and shield from fire on your turn, Dimensional Corridor stops that strategy cold.: )
Pyrothem wrote: If they get a massive points drop or a good invulnerable save (maybe Q-shields) I could see a Two Monolith list working. Popping units between them and being a large block of wounds to chew through. Remember that melee armies love to lock units in combat to leapfrog and shield from fire on your turn, Dimensional Corridor stops that strategy cold.: )
Brrrrrrruuuuuhhhhhhhhh
If they dropped Monoliths to 340 points, and gave them QS....that'd be worth considering...
Monolith could get an invsv, but thats it. No QS, large units dont get that. And btw, you cant dimensional corridor friendly models when they are within 1" of enemy models.
Pyrothem wrote: If they get a massive points drop or a good invulnerable save (maybe Q-shields) I could see a Two Monolith list working. Popping units between them and being a large block of wounds to chew through. Remember that melee armies love to lock units in combat to leapfrog and shield from fire on your turn, Dimensional Corridor stops that strategy cold.: )
Brrrrrrruuuuuhhhhhhhhh
If they dropped Monoliths to 340 points, and gave them QS....that'd be worth considering...
Yeah I'd take that. Either a drop to 340 and QS or leave them as they are points-wise and give them QS and a 2+ or 4++.
I don't think Necrons are a million miles from viable at a higher level, but they need lots of little changes to most units rather than any big sweeping ones.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: Yeah fly doesn't help anymore. It's just a trick many units can use to their advantage when the opportunity presents itself. I've done it before with Destroyers against 5 man marine scout units that have advance deployed. It's very easy in that scenario.
Other thoughts on possible teleport shenanigans:
On any given turn you can Dimensional Corridor Zandrekh out of a monolith (average ~12" with an advance), then Ghostwalk Obyron and a CC unit 6" from Zan, then charge an average of 8" (7" charge to within an inch).
12+6+8= 26
Is that the T1 charge distance above mentioned? Because if that's all don't count on it. If enemy doesn't want you to get T1 charges 26" threat range is quite easily avoidable. Gun lines will just shrug it off. At least h2h armies might have to consider will deploying bit further off or giving you T1 charge be worse
torblind wrote: Maybe drop the monolith to roughly the price of two leman russes? Trading damage output for teleporting gimmicks and (albeit worthless) deep strike
It has the firepower of a single Russ and it's durability is only equal to that of two Russes if it gets to heal for multiple turns. It doesn't have an option to fire at half rate of fire in order to move twice, DS has just been nerfed so I don't really feel the Monolith is superior to the Russ in terms of mobility. It cannot teleport people, those are Stratagems, Russes can also benefit from Stratagems. Monolith Stratagems are better than Russ Stratagems, but they're not better than Extermination Protocols. Russes get objec sec. Russes generate more CP per point invested. Dropping them to the price of two Russes is the least GW can do.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: Yeah fly doesn't help anymore. It's just a trick many units can use to their advantage when the opportunity presents itself. I've done it before with Destroyers against 5 man marine scout units that have advance deployed. It's very easy in that scenario.
Other thoughts on possible teleport shenanigans:
On any given turn you can Dimensional Corridor Zandrekh out of a monolith (average ~12" with an advance), then Ghostwalk Obyron and a CC unit 6" from Zan, then charge an average of 8" (7" charge to within an inch).
12+6+8= 26
Is that the T1 charge distance above mentioned? Because if that's all don't count on it. If enemy doesn't want you to get T1 charges 26" threat range is quite easily avoidable. Gun lines will just shrug it off. At least h2h armies might have to consider will deploying bit further off or giving you T1 charge be worse
No,I wasn't suggesting that as a turn one charge distance. It would be if you just started the Monolith at the edge of your deployment zone, but I think it needs to be advanced deployed with the Deceivers Grand Illusion ability. Doing that puts the 'lith 12" from the enemy which makes charging out of it with the dimensional corridor strat easy.
The 26" distance for Dimansional Corridor > Zandrekh > Obyron > assault unit that I described in that quote is something you could do in later turns, after you have already made a guaranteed T1 charge with Grand Illusion. Or something you could do if you go second and people move back from the Grand Illusioned Monolith (in the unlikely event that they don't just destroy it).
As for changes to the Monoliths rules; Quantum Shielding seems very unlikely, I don't think Chapter Approved will change rules to that extent. I think point reductions are the most we can hope for, and possibly an exception that lets the Emergency Invasion Beam strat work on turn 1. The only thing in the Codex that really needs it's rules changing is the Tesla Destructor, a buff to that could fix three of our worst units: Annihilation Barge, Night Scythe, and Doom Scythe.
I have played the Gauss pylon (also with T8/3+) only once in 8th (where's the fun, really), against AM.
Even with 5++, 5 LRBT variants brough tit down 17 wounds in his first turn of shooting, using only Dmg2 and D3 weapons and heavy bolters.
I don't know how average that is, but his rolls weren't overly particularly.
Not sure how readily available D2-D3 weapons are for others, but QS might not be that big of a deal perhaps. QS would likely shift them to use their lascannons on our destroyers and tomb blades instead.
sieGermans wrote:I had this vague recollection that the new Necron MC was due to land this Christmas... was that just wishful thinking?
Thats what i was told by the FW guys at the european warhammer fest this year. Christmas is still 10 weeks away, though. Warhammer community had a preview of it some days ago, saying its coming soon.
A) It's too expensive
B) It's utility as a transport is questionable
C) Its not very survivable
The Monolith is a prime target for points changes so A) should be addressed. They've already started to open up utility so it works better with the rules. That's B)
We don't know about C) but you'd have to assume it might be addressed by improving it's save characteristic to 2+, giving it an invulnerable save, raising its Toughness or giving it QS.
Given that they literally refer to it in the datasheet as a Floating Fortress, I'd personally like T9 and a 2+ save. T9 would mean 4's to wound with Lascannons which I think is appropriate.
As a bonus, I'd quite like it if the Portal of Exile, which is essentially the Eternity Gate in reverse, mirrored that ability so it triggered on charge moves ending within 3" of the Monolith.
We're getting a bit into wishlisting. Probably should take that to the Proposed rules section, there is a thread for it.
Otherwise, until adjusted, mine will gather dust.
I got a game vs Eldar tonight. Should be interesting stuff. Probably semi-casual, so I might try branching out a little bit, run stuff i dont normally use.
Try not using destroyers With the new lack of turn 1 deep strike with them and probably increase in points. get out of the habit of an auto include while it doesn't matter
That and will confused your opponent expecting to fight all the destroyers
moonsmite wrote: Try not using destroyers With the new lack of turn 1 deep strike with them and probably increase in points. get out of the habit of an auto include while it doesn't matter
That and will confused your opponent expecting to fight all the destroyers
Nah, i aint gonna hamstring myself because of potential new rules.
I don't know if they will nerf destroyers or that whatever hypothetical nerf they get will make them unusable. They may just conclude that the last thing we need right now is a nerf to one of the only standouts in the codex and leave them alone. It's hard to say.
Frankly, I don't think they are overpowered. They are strong, sure. But because of the way strategems work you can't spam them effectively and they aren't exactly the hardest thing around to get off the board. And everyone runs the right weapons to do the job.
If they were going to change the cost of Extermination Protocols it would have happened in the FAQ when they changed the cost of a whole bunch of other stratagems. I'm gonna be optimistic and say that nerfing the worst faction in the game isn't on GW's radar.
torblind wrote: I have played the Gauss pylon (also with T8/3+) only once in 8th (where's the fun, really), against AM.
Even with 5++, 5 LRBT variants brough tit down 17 wounds in his first turn of shooting, using only Dmg2 and D3 weapons and heavy bolters.
I don't know how average that is, but his rolls weren't overly particularly.
Not sure how readily available D2-D3 weapons are for others, but QS might not be that big of a deal perhaps. QS would likely shift them to use their lascannons on our destroyers and tomb blades instead.
QS might have a psychological impact though.
I don't think the Pylon is remotely good anymore with the DS nerf, the scenario you mentioned seems perfectly average to me without having done the math.
QS increases durability by 20% against D2 weapons, 28% against Dd3 weapons, 50% against D3 weapons, 117% against Dd6 weapons, 125% against Dd6 with a minimum of D3.
FNP increases durability by 20%/50%/100%/200% for FNP 6+/5+/4+/3+ respectively. QS being influenced more by a single roll means you have a great place to spend your re-rolls if you say roll a 6 against a D6 wound, with FNP you just have to take what you can get more or less.
QS is great fun to play with when you're a lucky SoaB but I don't think the rule fits Necrons very well, I'd like it better if Necrons had reliable technology and the only unreliable things available to Necrons were C'tan Shards.
A) It's too expensive B) Its utility as a transport is questionable C) It's not very survivable
D) It's slow. E) It's useless in close-combat. F) It doesn't have much dakka. G) Its anti-charge ability is easily bypassed. H) It has an uneven pts cost.
rvd1ofakind wrote: My fav. configuration for Tomb Blades is 4 particle 5 gauss all 3+ ofc. I kill particles first so gauss actually does it's thing.
You know...i'd NEVER considered running them as a mixed group...because i'm so used to our squads not being able to mix and match anything...huh...not a bad idea...
rvd1ofakind wrote: My fav. configuration for Tomb Blades is 4 particle 5 gauss all 3+ ofc. I kill particles first so gauss actually does it's thing.
I too like this idea but my only gripe with this idea is that while the 4 PBeamers are "tax" and are used to soak wounds and give you the ability to select what comes back to life via RP. You are still losing out on 4 Gauss tomb blades.
If you have 2 units of Blades, 1st with 9 Gauss and 2nd has 5 Gauss 4 PBs. And you lose 4 models in both units. While you are stripped of 4 Gauss TBs and 4 PBeamer TB. The 1st unit is actually going to be better because you will be RPing 4 Gauss TBs rather than 4 PBeamer TBs.if that makes sense?
Your 1st unit will last as long as the 2nd unit but the 1st one has a better chance of doing reliable dmg as it will always have more Gauss than the 2nd.
I would just run a unit of 9 PBeamers and have them advance around the board to grab objectives and be a mobile screen/distraction Carnifex.
Also, you should try running some as 3+ and 5++ for your exact reasons above. You get to choose what comes back via RP. So, with having both options you can designated which model takes what dmg e.g. shot with a weapon with AP -1? Take it on a Shield Vane TB. Being shot at with a weapon with AP -4? Take it on the Shadowloom TB. Better survivability and if in a Nihilakh detachment (just throwing this out their) you can make them 4++.
rvd1ofakind wrote: My fav. configuration for Tomb Blades is 4 particle 5 gauss all 3+ ofc. I kill particles first so gauss actually does it's thing.
I too like this idea but my only gripe with this idea is that while the 4 PBeamers are "tax" and are used to soak wounds and give you the ability to select what comes back to life via RP. You are still losing out on 4 Gauss tomb blades.
If you have 2 units of Blades, 1st with 9 Gauss and 2nd has 5 Gauss 4 PBs. And you lose 4 models in both units. While you are stripped of 4 Gauss TBs and 4 PBeamer TB. The 1st unit is actually going to be better because you will be RPing 4 Gauss TBs rather than 4 PBeamer TBs.if that makes sense?
Your 1st unit will last as long as the 2nd unit but the 1st one has a better chance of doing reliable dmg as it will always have more Gauss than the 2nd.
I would just run a unit of 9 PBeamers and have them advance around the board to grab objectives and be a mobile screen/distraction Carnifex.
Also, you should try running some as 3+ and 5++ for your exact reasons above. You get to choose what comes back via RP. So, with having both options you can designated which model takes what dmg e.g. shot with a weapon with AP -1? Take it on a Shield Vane TB. Being shot at with a weapon with AP -4? Take it on the Shadowloom TB. Better survivability and if in a Nihilakh detachment (just throwing this out their) you can make them 4++.
rvd1ofakind wrote: My fav. configuration for Tomb Blades is 4 particle 5 gauss all 3+ ofc. I kill particles first so gauss actually does it's thing.
I too like this idea but my only gripe with this idea is that while the 4 PBeamers are "tax" and are used to soak wounds and give you the ability to select what comes back to life via RP. You are still losing out on 4 Gauss tomb blades.
If you have 2 units of Blades, 1st with 9 Gauss and 2nd has 5 Gauss 4 PBs. And you lose 4 models in both units. While you are stripped of 4 Gauss TBs and 4 PBeamer TB. The 1st unit is actually going to be better because you will be RPing 4 Gauss TBs rather than 4 PBeamer TBs.if that makes sense?
Your 1st unit will last as long as the 2nd unit but the 1st one has a better chance of doing reliable dmg as it will always have more Gauss than the 2nd.
I would just run a unit of 9 PBeamers and have them advance around the board to grab objectives and be a mobile screen/distraction Carnifex.
Also, you should try running some as 3+ and 5++ for your exact reasons above. You get to choose what comes back via RP. So, with having both options you can designated which model takes what dmg e.g. shot with a weapon with AP -1? Take it on a Shield Vane TB. Being shot at with a weapon with AP -4? Take it on the Shadowloom TB. Better survivability and if in a Nihilakh detachment (just throwing this out their) you can make them 4++.
Do you get to choose for RP?
Yup. You just nominate what models you want to bring back e.g. 2 Shadowlooms and 2 Shield Vanes. And than you roll separately for each pair. Or nominate different colour dice to each model and roll all at once.
rvd1ofakind wrote: My fav. configuration for Tomb Blades is 4 particle 5 gauss all 3+ ofc. I kill particles first so gauss actually does it's thing.
I too like this idea but my only gripe with this idea is that while the 4 PBeamers are "tax" and are used to soak wounds and give you the ability to select what comes back to life via RP. You are still losing out on 4 Gauss tomb blades.
If you have 2 units of Blades, 1st with 9 Gauss and 2nd has 5 Gauss 4 PBs. And you lose 4 models in both units. While you are stripped of 4 Gauss TBs and 4 PBeamer TB. The 1st unit is actually going to be better because you will be RPing 4 Gauss TBs rather than 4 PBeamer TBs.if that makes sense?
Your 1st unit will last as long as the 2nd unit but the 1st one has a better chance of doing reliable dmg as it will always have more Gauss than the 2nd.
I would just run a unit of 9 PBeamers and have them advance around the board to grab objectives and be a mobile screen/distraction Carnifex.
Also, you should try running some as 3+ and 5++ for your exact reasons above. You get to choose what comes back via RP. So, with having both options you can designated which model takes what dmg e.g. shot with a weapon with AP -1? Take it on a Shield Vane TB. Being shot at with a weapon with AP -4? Take it on the Shadowloom TB. Better survivability and if in a Nihilakh detachment (just throwing this out their) you can make them 4++.
Do you get to choose for RP?
Yup. You just nominate what models you want to bring back e.g. 2 Shadowlooms and 2 Shield Vanes. And than you roll separately for each pair. Or nominate different colour dice to each model and roll all at once.
What's the choice in that? Each dead model has a dice that gets a 5+ or not. Or what did you talk about selecting in the first place?
rvd1ofakind wrote: My fav. configuration for Tomb Blades is 4 particle 5 gauss all 3+ ofc. I kill particles first so gauss actually does it's thing.
I too like this idea but my only gripe with this idea is that while the 4 PBeamers are "tax" and are used to soak wounds and give you the ability to select what comes back to life via RP. You are still losing out on 4 Gauss tomb blades.
If you have 2 units of Blades, 1st with 9 Gauss and 2nd has 5 Gauss 4 PBs. And you lose 4 models in both units. While you are stripped of 4 Gauss TBs and 4 PBeamer TB. The 1st unit is actually going to be better because you will be RPing 4 Gauss TBs rather than 4 PBeamer TBs.if that makes sense?
Your 1st unit will last as long as the 2nd unit but the 1st one has a better chance of doing reliable dmg as it will always have more Gauss than the 2nd.
I would just run a unit of 9 PBeamers and have them advance around the board to grab objectives and be a mobile screen/distraction Carnifex.
Also, you should try running some as 3+ and 5++ for your exact reasons above. You get to choose what comes back via RP. So, with having both options you can designated which model takes what dmg e.g. shot with a weapon with AP -1? Take it on a Shield Vane TB. Being shot at with a weapon with AP -4? Take it on the Shadowloom TB. Better survivability and if in a Nihilakh detachment (just throwing this out their) you can make them 4++.
Do you get to choose for RP?
Yup. You just nominate what models you want to bring back e.g. 2 Shadowlooms and 2 Shield Vanes. And than you roll separately for each pair. Or nominate different colour dice to each model and roll all at once.
What's the choice in that? Each dead model has a dice that gets a 5+ or not. Or what did you talk about selecting in the first place?
The choice depends on what models you sacrificed. If each model in a unit has a different upgrade and/or gun you should nominate what your RPing e.g. you lose 5 TBs and 3 where Shield Vanes and 2 where Shadowlooms. Well say you rolled RP and only get 3 5+ out of 5 die but you didn't nominate what you wanted to RP. You dont get to choose what 3 models come back - 2 Shieldvanes, 1 Shadowlooms. 2 Shadowlooms, 1 Shield Vane etc because you never informed what models you wanted to bring back before the RP roll. You at least need to tell your opponent what models your RPing if your unit has models with different guns and loadouts. You RP per model, meaning you roll 1 die at a time. You should only group roll RP if all models in a unit are the same. E.g. if running 5 Destroyers you would roll 5 normal RPs. But if one of those model is a Heavy destroyer you have to nominate what Sequence your RPing.
The choice depends on what models you sacrificed. If each model in a unit has a different upgrade and/or gun you should nominate what your RPing e.g. you lose 5 TBs and 3 where Shield Vanes and 2 where Shadowlooms. Well say you rolled RP and only get 3 5+ out of 5 die but you didn't nominate what you wanted to RP. You dont get to choose what 3 models come back - 2 Shieldvanes, 1 Shadowlooms. 2 Shadowlooms, 1 Shield Vane etc because you never informed what models you wanted to bring back before the RP roll. You at least need to tell your opponent what models your RPing if your unit has models with different guns and loadouts. You RP per model, meaning you roll 1 die at a time. You should only group roll RP if all models in a unit are the same. E.g. if running 5 Destroyers you would roll 5 normal RPs. But if one of those model is a Heavy destroyer you have to nominate what Sequence your RPing.
You roll a dice for every model you lost. For every successful roll you can bring back one model. You can choose freely. Nothing in the RP rule says you have to choose a model first, before you roll.
The choice depends on what models you sacrificed. If each model in a unit has a different upgrade and/or gun you should nominate what your RPing e.g. you lose 5 TBs and 3 where Shield Vanes and 2 where Shadowlooms. Well say you rolled RP and only get 3 5+ out of 5 die but you didn't nominate what you wanted to RP. You dont get to choose what 3 models come back - 2 Shieldvanes, 1 Shadowlooms. 2 Shadowlooms, 1 Shield Vane etc because you never informed what models you wanted to bring back before the RP roll. You at least need to tell your opponent what models your RPing if your unit has models with different guns and loadouts. You RP per model, meaning you roll 1 die at a time. You should only group roll RP if all models in a unit are the same. E.g. if running 5 Destroyers you would roll 5 normal RPs. But if one of those model is a Heavy destroyer you have to nominate what Sequence your RPing.
You roll a dice for every model you lost. For every successful roll you can bring back one model. You can choose freely. Nothing in the RP rule says you have to choose a model first, before you roll.
Bit surely you would decide which unit you roll for? And does it say to do that in the rules?
moonsmite wrote: With the current Beta FAQ for strat regen. It brings the question
How many CP would we need to get back to make it worth taking the Sautekh Warlord trait over any other trait
Personally expecting to get back 2 in a game. But would it be worth having a more survivable warlord over these CP?
I never thought it was worth it in the first place. Its even worse than it was before now.
Well if you run something akin to a silver tide you likely will spend 2 CP on morale, so going with that trait matches the benefit of sautekh trait.
I find that when I regenerate CPs I am less careful with my points, spending more than I otherwise would, and more than the 1 in 3 advantage would suggest.
moonsmite wrote: With the current Beta FAQ for strat regen. It brings the question
How many CP would we need to get back to make it worth taking the Sautekh Warlord trait over any other trait
Personally expecting to get back 2 in a game. But would it be worth having a more survivable warlord over these CP?
I never thought it was worth it in the first place. Its even worse than it was before now.
Well if you run something akin to a silver tide you likely will spend 2 CP on morale, so going with that trait matches the benefit of sautekh trait.
I find that when I regenerate CPs I am less careful with my points, spending more than I otherwise would, and more than the 1 in 3 advantage would suggest.
If you are running silver tide, and aren't running immortal pride for your WL trait, you're doing it wrong IMO, you should be getting the fearless bubble for free, and spending the CP on extra MWBD charges from Phaeron's will
Yeah I wrote horrible English, meant to say going with the trait that lets you pass morale already buys you 2cp you otherwise would spend with hyoerlogical strategist, in a silver tide. So already on par or better there.
Yeah, you pretty much need Immortal Pride if you are running big blobs of warriors. Not having to take morale tests saved my warrior blob quite a few times.
BTW, particle tomb blades are basically as good as gauss tomb blades against the right targets. So taking 4 of those in my unit of 9 is not a detriment to me. It's 3 shots.
With my list, I am usually burning 4cp before the first round ever starts, so regen is hugely important to me still. I have yet to run out of CP before turn 5 since the FAQ dropped.
The choice depends on what models you sacrificed. If each model in a unit has a different upgrade and/or gun you should nominate what your RPing e.g. you lose 5 TBs and 3 where Shield Vanes and 2 where Shadowlooms. Well say you rolled RP and only get 3 5+ out of 5 die but you didn't nominate what you wanted to RP. You dont get to choose what 3 models come back - 2 Shieldvanes, 1 Shadowlooms. 2 Shadowlooms, 1 Shield Vane etc because you never informed what models you wanted to bring back before the RP roll. You at least need to tell your opponent what models your RPing if your unit has models with different guns and loadouts. You RP per model, meaning you roll 1 die at a time. You should only group roll RP if all models in a unit are the same. E.g. if running 5 Destroyers you would roll 5 normal RPs. But if one of those model is a Heavy destroyer you have to nominate what Sequence your RPing.
You roll a dice for every model you lost. For every successful roll you can bring back one model. You can choose freely. Nothing in the RP rule says you have to choose a model first, before you roll.
Bit surely you would decide which unit you roll for? And does it say to do that in the rules?
Don't have necron codex with me and not that experienced with necrons(been too busy painting adeptus titanicus and orks for 6k apoc to start working on my necrons) but check the wording between RP and transports blowing up where you roll number of models in transport and pick casualties rather than roll for each unit(thus not having 1/6 chance of having your expensive character die out of that if he has cheap chaff to sacrifice instead). Maybe gives hint how it should be rolled with RP.
rvd1ofakind wrote: BTW, particle tomb blades are basically as good as gauss tomb blades against the right targets. So taking 4 of those in my unit of 9 is not a detriment to me. It's 3 shots.
I actually really like the idea of particle tomb blades. It synergizes quite well with nephrekh, as you can take advantage of the extra advance distance as much as you want. The problem with taking tesla is that if you advance, you lose the extra hits which is what you want tesla for. Tesla is also about double the cost of a particle caster, with just one more shot at a lower strength. If you advance its objectively inferior to particles.
rvd1ofakind wrote: BTW, particle tomb blades are basically as good as gauss tomb blades against the right targets. So taking 4 of those in my unit of 9 is not a detriment to me. It's 3 shots.
I actually really like the idea of particle tomb blades. It synergizes quite well with nephrekh, as you can take advantage of the extra advance distance as much as you want.
The problem with taking tesla is that if you advance, you lose the extra hits which is what you want tesla for. Tesla is also about double the cost of a particle caster, with just one more shot at a lower strength. If you advance its objectively inferior to particles.
Also they're cheap. Sometimes you just need many fast bodies.
rvd1ofakind wrote: BTW, particle tomb blades are basically as good as gauss tomb blades against the right targets. So taking 4 of those in my unit of 9 is not a detriment to me. It's 3 shots.
I actually really like the idea of particle tomb blades. It synergizes quite well with nephrekh, as you can take advantage of the extra advance distance as much as you want.
The problem with taking tesla is that if you advance, you lose the extra hits which is what you want tesla for. Tesla is also about double the cost of a particle caster, with just one more shot at a lower strength. If you advance its objectively inferior to particles.
Also they're cheap. Sometimes you just need many fast bodies.
That's the big thing I was thinking about. I'm basically taking these things instead of troops and that leaves me a little lacking in bodies. I'm thinking that if I can squeeze in a third squad by taking two squads of these guys it could counter a big weakness I see with the list I'm building. On the other hand, I would have to build another squad of these little sobs to try it. And that makes me sad. Very very sad.
rvd1ofakind wrote: BTW, particle tomb blades are basically as good as gauss tomb blades against the right targets. So taking 4 of those in my unit of 9 is not a detriment to me. It's 3 shots.
I actually really like the idea of particle tomb blades. It synergizes quite well with nephrekh, as you can take advantage of the extra advance distance as much as you want.
The problem with taking tesla is that if you advance, you lose the extra hits which is what you want tesla for. Tesla is also about double the cost of a particle caster, with just one more shot at a lower strength. If you advance its objectively inferior to particles.
Also they're cheap. Sometimes you just need many fast bodies.
That's the big thing I was thinking about. I'm basically taking these things instead of troops and that leaves me a little lacking in bodies. I'm thinking that if I can squeeze in a third squad by taking two squads of these guys it could counter a big weakness I see with the list I'm building. On the other hand, I would have to build another squad of these little sobs to try it. And that makes me sad. Very very sad.
Yeah, I have 12, and they have been ongoing uncompleted projects for 1.5 years now. Magnetized even. Little buggers.
Also since they have -1 to hit, guys tend to shoot at other things first, warriors, immortals, certainly destroyers. If you bring more bodies, making them 6+ man (or bike) strong, they are even more reluctant to start shooing at them since they have RP, and they'd rather clear other, easier to kill, units with RP first (in my experience)
Alsp PBeamers are nice with mehprit, Assault 3 S6 -1 is not too shabby for its price. The perfect companion for 20 warriors sent up with the deceiver.
The choice depends on what models you sacrificed. If each model in a unit has a different upgrade and/or gun you should nominate what your RPing e.g. you lose 5 TBs and 3 where Shield Vanes and 2 where Shadowlooms. Well say you rolled RP and only get 3 5+ out of 5 die but you didn't nominate what you wanted to RP. You dont get to choose what 3 models come back - 2 Shieldvanes, 1 Shadowlooms. 2 Shadowlooms, 1 Shield Vane etc because you never informed what models you wanted to bring back before the RP roll. You at least need to tell your opponent what models your RPing if your unit has models with different guns and loadouts. You RP per model, meaning you roll 1 die at a time. You should only group roll RP if all models in a unit are the same. E.g. if running 5 Destroyers you would roll 5 normal RPs. But if one of those model is a Heavy destroyer you have to nominate what Sequence your RPing.
You roll a dice for every model you lost. For every successful roll you can bring back one model. You can choose freely. Nothing in the RP rule says you have to choose a model first, before you roll.
Bit surely you would decide which unit you roll for? And does it say to do that in the rules?
Don't have necron codex with me and not that experienced with necrons(been too busy painting adeptus titanicus and orks for 6k apoc to start working on my necrons) but check the wording between RP and transports blowing up where you roll number of models in transport and pick casualties rather than roll for each unit(thus not having 1/6 chance of having your expensive character die out of that if he has cheap chaff to sacrifice instead). Maybe gives hint how it should be rolled with RP.
You do pick a unit, and you roll RP for every model in that that unit, then you can freely select which models get resurrected. You certainly dont have to say that this one dice is for that one model.
Automatically Appended Next Post: May i suggest that everyone emails FW and tells them to change the D6 damage on the singularity generators from the seraptek heavy construct to something like 2D3 or anything else less random. I did, maybe they change it, if enough people email them.
The choice depends on what models you sacrificed. If each model in a unit has a different upgrade and/or gun you should nominate what your RPing e.g. you lose 5 TBs and 3 where Shield Vanes and 2 where Shadowlooms. Well say you rolled RP and only get 3 5+ out of 5 die but you didn't nominate what you wanted to RP. You dont get to choose what 3 models come back - 2 Shieldvanes, 1 Shadowlooms. 2 Shadowlooms, 1 Shield Vane etc because you never informed what models you wanted to bring back before the RP roll. You at least need to tell your opponent what models your RPing if your unit has models with different guns and loadouts. You RP per model, meaning you roll 1 die at a time. You should only group roll RP if all models in a unit are the same. E.g. if running 5 Destroyers you would roll 5 normal RPs. But if one of those model is a Heavy destroyer you have to nominate what Sequence your RPing.
You roll a dice for every model you lost. For every successful roll you can bring back one model. You can choose freely. Nothing in the RP rule says you have to choose a model first, before you roll.
Bit surely you would decide which unit you roll for? And does it say to do that in the rules?
Don't have necron codex with me and not that experienced with necrons(been too busy painting adeptus titanicus and orks for 6k apoc to start working on my necrons) but check the wording between RP and transports blowing up where you roll number of models in transport and pick casualties rather than roll for each unit(thus not having 1/6 chance of having your expensive character die out of that if he has cheap chaff to sacrifice instead). Maybe gives hint how it should be rolled with RP.
You do pick a unit, and you roll RP for every model in that that unit, then you can freely select which models get resurrected. You certainly dont have to say that this one dice is for that one model.
Automatically Appended Next Post: May i suggest that everyone emails FW and tells them to change the D6 damage on the singularity generators from the seraptek heavy construct to something like 2D3 or anything else less random. I did, maybe they change it, if enough people email them.
I have to disagree there, it quite clearly says you roll a dice for each model and the roll decides the outcome for the model
Im unsure what torblind is getting all necrons are the same unless your talking about different kitted out tombblades. Then yes you would have to roll seperately for the different ones! Otherwise it makes no difference.
It does say "roll a D6 for each slain model" "on a 5+, the model's reanimation protocols activate". So yes, technically you have to do it model by model, but then you use fast dice and roll all at the same time if it is the samy type of model.
p5freak wrote: Please cite the rule from the codex where it says you must select a certain single model first, and roll one dice for that model. I just don't see it.
Well, I see it where it says roll a dice for each model and on a 5+ the reanimation protocols activate and you set it back up with it's unit
One trick you can do by rolling the RP one by one is when you are just out of range of a Cryptek. If you roll them 1 by 1, the first new model you can place might just get you within the Cryptek’s range, letting you roll the rest on a 4+
Doctoralex wrote: One trick you can do by rolling the RP one by one is when you are just out of range of a Cryptek. If you roll them 1 by 1, the first new model you can place might just get you within the Cryptek’s range, letting you roll the rest on a 4+
That goes against every other similar mechanic in the game. Resolving wounds when shooting for example.
No it doesn't. This is in the faq. If you're shooting into an infantry unit that has 10 models, 3 of which aren't on a ruin, I can roll until I kill those 3 and then roll the other 7 with +1 for cover in the same shooting section.
Doctoralex wrote: One trick you can do by rolling the RP one by one is when you are just out of range of a Cryptek. If you roll them 1 by 1, the first new model you can place might just get you within the Cryptek’s range, letting you roll the rest on a 4+
That goes against every other similar mechanic in the game. Resolving wounds when shooting for example.
I would never do it or allow it.
When making saves you can do it one at a time to remove a model outside of cover to get cover for the rest of the unit, so not really?
If for some reason you wanted to you can do a Reanimation Protocol roll for a model in one unit, then take a Reanimation Protocol roll for another unit, then do a couple of My Will Be Done targets, generate objectives and then finally go back to the first unit and do the remaining Reanimation Protocol rolls for that unit. You're not making the rolls for units, you're making for models and it all happens at the start of the turn.
Also thanks to Doctoralex I'd never even considered that. Of course, you'd usually just want to be in range and you're going to hate yourself if you roll two fours before you roll a 5+.
Doctoralex wrote: One trick you can do by rolling the RP one by one is when you are just out of range of a Cryptek. If you roll them 1 by 1, the first new model you can place might just get you within the Cryptek’s range, letting you roll the rest on a 4+
That goes against every other similar mechanic in the game. Resolving wounds when shooting for example.
I would never do it or allow it.
When making saves you can do it one at a time to remove a model outside of cover to get cover for the rest of the unit, so not really?
If for some reason you wanted to you can do a Reanimation Protocol roll for a model in one unit, then take a Reanimation Protocol roll for another unit, then do a couple of My Will Be Done targets, generate objectives and then finally go back to the first unit and do the remaining Reanimation Protocol rolls for that unit. You're not making the rolls for units, you're making for models and it all happens at the start of the turn.
Also thanks to Doctoralex I'd never even considered that. Of course, you'd usually just want to be in range and you're going to hate yourself if you roll two fours before you roll a 5+.
Resolving wounds to gain cover from one salvo was admitadly news to me, I'd happily stand corrected on that.
Doesn't that on its own invalidate the rule that models must be entirely in cover to get benefit of cover? If you just remove those 4 guys out of cover first, then the remaining 6 are in cover, by the 4th failed saving throw and now lo and behold, remaining unit is in cover, and get +1. Effectively you get cover save for any mode in cover, regardless of models outside because you just remove those first? Does not sound right although I havent yet gone down the YMDC route on this one.
Neat idea with the cryptek and RP, thanks for that.
RAW, you cant fast roll saves against wounds. But if everything is the same, why not. On to cover. Infantry receives the benefit of cover when the entire unit is within terrain. Other units only when they are within terrain, and at least 50% obscured from the firers view. Note that it doesnt have to be the piece of terrain where the unit is, which is obscuring it. It could be another unit, friendly, or enemy. Models can only see through other models in their own unit. Lots of threads in YMDC about this.
From the designers commentary :
Q: When determining whether a model
benefits from cover, does the model’s
entire unit need to be fully on or within
terrain, or just the model making a
particular saving throw?
3
A: All of the models in a unit need to be at
least partially on or within terrain if any of
the models are to receive the +1 bonus to
their saving throw.
Note, however, that it is possible for a unit to
gain the benefit of cover as it suffers casualties
during the Shooting phase by removing those
models that are not on, or within terrain. As
soon as the last model that was not on or within
terrain is slain, the rest of the unit immediately
starts to receive the benefit of cover.
p5freak wrote: Neat idea with the cryptek and RP, thanks for that.
RAW, you cant fast roll saves against wounds. But if everything is the same, why not. On to cover. Infantry receives the benefit of cover when the entire unit is within terrain. Other units only when they are within terrain, and at least 50% obscured from the firers view. Note that it doesnt have to be the piece of terrain where the unit is, which is obscuring it. It could be another unit, friendly, or enemy. Models can only see through other models in their own unit. Lots of threads in YMDC about this.
The specific issue is, if you have 4 infantry models outside of cover and 6 modesl on cover, all from 1 unit. You then receive 10 wounds. And you decide to roll them one by one. The first 4 saving rolls fail, and you remove the 4 models out of cover. You then claim the remaining 6 are now in cover, making the hole unit being in cover, and you move on to rolling the remaining 6 wounds with a +1 modifier.
I am highly surprised this is allowed as it would nullify the entire meaning of having the entire unit within cover in the first place. Has this been down the YMDC route?
Q: When determining whether a model
benefits from cover, does the model’s
entire unit need to be fully on or within
terrain, or just the model making a
particular saving throw?
A: All of the models in a unit need to be at
least partially on or within terrain if any of
the models are to receive the +1 bonus to
their saving throw.
Note, however, that it is possible for a unit to
gain the benefit of cover as it suffers casualties
during the Shooting phase by removing those
models that are not on, or within terrain. As
soon as the last model that was not on or within
terrain is slain, the rest of the unit immediately
starts to receive the benefit of cover.
This is nothing new, its been there since the designers commentary has been released. No need to go down the YMDC route.
p5freak wrote: Neat idea with the cryptek and RP, thanks for that.
RAW, you cant fast roll saves against wounds. But if everything is the same, why not. On to cover. Infantry receives the benefit of cover when the entire unit is within terrain. Other units only when they are within terrain, and at least 50% obscured from the firers view. Note that it doesnt have to be the piece of terrain where the unit is, which is obscuring it. It could be another unit, friendly, or enemy. Models can only see through other models in their own unit. Lots of threads in YMDC about this.
The specific issue is, if you have 4 infantry models outside of cover and 6 modesl on cover, all from 1 unit. You then receive 10 wounds. And you decide to roll them one by one. The first 4 saving rolls fail, and you remove the 4 models out of cover. You then claim the remaining 6 are now in cover, making the hole unit being in cover, and you move on to rolling the remaining 6 wounds with a +1 modifier.
I am highly surprised this is allowed as it would nullify the entire meaning of having the entire unit within cover in the first place. Has this been down the YMDC route?
Well it would remove some flexibility in casualty removal. If you want to remove guys in the cover first(due to them being more sacrificiable) tough luck.
But all shots from a salvo are simultaneous, right? Ie unit A fires at my unit, I remove 6 casualties. unit B also shoots at them and now they have cover since the remaining 4 are in terrain.
Is it commonly accepted that the last 2 guys I removed in salvo A also have cover? I may roll saves one by one, but that doesn't change the fact that all shooting in a salvo is simultaneous and 'immediately' cannot happen till after it is resolved?
torblind wrote: But all shots from a salvo are simultaneous, right? Ie unit A fires at my unit, I remove 6 casualties. unit B also shoots at them and now they have cover since the remaining 4 are in terrain.
Is it commonly accepted that the last 2 guys I removed in salvo A also have cover? I may roll saves one by one, but that doesn't change the fact that all shooting in a salvo is simultaneous and 'immediately' cannot happen till after it is resolved?
The answer is literally written down in the thread above, in the FAQ snippet.
Other precedent for this - Tau marker lights. You can roll these one at a time (e.g. a unit of 6 marker drones), once you get a hit the ML takes effect for the remaining shots.
Probably some armies like scion plasma spam would hard-counter the list, but I can see a lot of lists, particularly ones tooled up for Knights, struggling to shift those bodies.
If we get the promised price drops in CA, this might turn into something maybe?
Probably some armies like scion plasma spam would hard-counter the list, but I can see a lot of lists, particularly ones tooled up for Knights, struggling to shift those bodies.
If we get the promised price drops in CA, this might turn into something maybe?
Double battalion certainly is interesting, but will it be diverse enough?
Perhaps spend another 2 CP on a relic since you still get to regenerate freely before turn 1
Isn't the Rule of Three going to prohibit that list? I know one batallion has tesla and the other gauss but can't you only take 3 of any datasheet, irrespective of gear choices?
dapperbandit wrote: Isn't the Rule of Three going to prohibit that list? I know one batallion has tesla and the other gauss but can't you only take 3 of any datasheet, irrespective of gear choices?
Troops are still good
Also the WL isn't on the field to regenerate those CPs anyway that I suggested.
Probably some armies like scion plasma spam would hard-counter the list, but I can see a lot of lists, particularly ones tooled up for Knights, struggling to shift those bodies.
If we get the promised price drops in CA, this might turn into something maybe?
Double battalion certainly is interesting, but will it be diverse enough?
Perhaps spend another 2 CP on a relic since you still get to regenerate freely before turn 1
You don't get to regenerate CP spent before your WL is placed on the battlefield. If you want to do the trick with a Sautekh WL and a bunch of Nephrekh units using the DS Strat you need to place the WL on the field first before using those Stratagems. The relic is bought before deployment so no regeneration for that or if you wanted to re-roll the result on your Transcendent C'tan's personality.
For the list I'd get at least 2x10 Tesla to get max value from your OLs' MWBD, cut a few of the Gauss Immortals to make room for that, ideally you'd want even more than that because your opponent will target the big units first, so I'd go 3x10 Tesla 1x8 Tesla and 3x5 Gauss. Knights don't have a problem with clearing out MEQ so your list design is way off if you're looking for a Knight counter, it's going to be absolutely brutal against Orks though so it's not necessarily a bad list if Orks are going to be the new meta.
I think the way cover works is the way it should work, it only makes sense the people in cover are the last to die and that they are harder to kill.
moonsmite wrote: With the current Beta FAQ for strat regen. It brings the question
How many CP would we need to get back to make it worth taking the Sautekh Warlord trait over any other trait
Personally expecting to get back 2 in a game. But would it be worth having a more survivable warlord over these CP?
If you're running void/warscythe then the personal re-roll isn't bad, that's something to keep in mind as well. When I'm running a Lord or Cryptek I don't really see any benefit in making him tougher because he's going to die to a stiff breeze anyways. Like the BA Smashcaptain WL needs two wounds instead of 1, easily done, doing 4 wounds with a DP is also fairly easy in a turn, if I'm running an Overlord I'm probably running a Battalion in which case HypeStrat is amazing.
The only times when Hyperlogical Strategist isn't necessarily the best is for a D Lord or a Catacomb Command Barge which might want a defensive strat or if you're running silver tide in which case I agree with the other posters about Immortal Pride being better. The rest of the WL traits don't really compare and should never be taken on a Sautekh WL, Thrall of the Silent King is the best of the bad but it doesn't compare to HypeStrat. Half my reason for ever taking Sautekh is just the WL trait, it is that amazing and unless you're playing incredibly CP hungry armies (Tesseract Vaults come to mind) then it is just as good as it was before and I would always take it.
It's also a question of what armies you're making when playing Sautekh, Implacable Conqueror is pretty good in the right list, but that list isn't Sautekh.
Won a game against a Dark Angels and Astra Militarum alliance with the same list. My opponent didn't get to shoot with his 10 Hellblasters for the first two turns due to a huge LOS blocking piece of terrain blocking view of my entire army. He dropped down a unit of 10 Terminators and did a little bit of shooting damage but they got cut down after failing their charge.
I lost a 2k CA Maelstrom game with the same list against an Ulthwe list. I did pretty well in killing all his infantry, but he won through Maelstrom objectives and running circles around my Lychguard with his grav tanks. I forgot about the FLY change and accidentally got my Destroyers killed because they're too fat to fit between the 2" gap between models in a Lychguard unit and can no longer fly.
I won a 2k CA Maelstrom game with Novokh Lychguard spam against DG. My opponent didn't really pick his targets very well and didn't manage to kill anything but a unit of 10 Warriors in his first two shooting phases and got pushed back and didn't really get many objectives. It was his first time against Necrons, I don't think he appreciated how important target priority was. I accidentally left too little room to manouvre a unit of Lychguard through another Lychguard unit twice meaning I got fewer models in because I had to conga line my Lychguard to maintain coherency with one that was locked between another two units. I think I'll be more careful when mixing units up next time.
I still think the list is bad due to its weakness against fast units with FLY, it seems better than the Kutlakh list I tried earlier though, perhaps it's that third unit of Lychguard that is needed to make Kutlakh better. Maybe it's about not including Tesla Immortals, chaff and horde units I can use to my advantage as a jumping off board or as hostages to prevent my opponent from shooting at my Lychgaurd, clearing them away may actually be a mistake.
Lost a CA Maelstrom game with Novokh Lychguard spam against AM. He brought 9 of the FW flametanks with D6 S6 AP-1 D2 autohits each and a 6" explosion for D6 MWs that triggers on a 4+, I surrendered turn 3 when I got "outflanked" and lost Anrakyr and my only Cryptek and subsequently failed my Crypteks 4+ Reanimation roll, without any CP left I surrendered with a Lord, 2 Lychguard, 23 Warriors, 2 Destroyers at the end of his third turn (he was comically unlucky), having killed four 80 pt tanks and a 47 pt unit of Guard.
My opponent didn't tailor and I asked him if he wanted me to bring a list giving him more challenge but he allowed me to see if I could somehow pull out a win. Despite my best efforts of taking hostages and piling into things I didn't charge it just wasn't nearly enough. I think I might try putting my characters in the second rank instead of the third or fourth rank behind all my Lychguard, that might make it possible for them to charge with the Lychguard, which could have prevented my opponent from circling around me and getting to my characters in the back, it also means fewer guys standing around to provide range to my aura buffs.
Has anyone built around using other canoptek units with the Adaptive Subroutines stratagem?
6 Nephrek Acanthrites could advance 18" and shoot their meltaguns to within 6" meltaguns range. A unit of tomb blades could tag along and bring their gauss fire in rapid fire range of the same target.
This could potentially obliterate all MEQ/TEQ units on an entire flank.
They would be survivable enough -1 to hit, multiple wounds, decent save, RP) that he would likely divert the entire rest of his army to do anything noteworthy to them.
Ofcourse elite infantry aren't that prominent at this point in 8th. And the acanthrites really should have had S8 on their cutter. Don't really have much else going for them.
It was a tough fight as I ended up going second, and he had an 60 strong screen of little bugs- both very bad things for this type of list. 12 Hive Guard are also pretty scary.
The bugs deployed predictably in order of size: Hormagants at the front, Stealers behind, Warriors and Hive guard at the back, with all the characters in the middle to give out their buffs.
I put all my units in the back corner of my deployment zone ready to teleport, then Grand Illusion-ed the Monolith and Zandrekh (my "teleport homers") right in front of his army. This was obviously very risky going second, but the maths told me that 2 units of Hive Guard (one firing twice with a stratagem) do not kill a Monolith with average rolls.
Turn 1 The bugs spread out their screen a bit on turn 1, and took the Monolith down to 6 wounds.
On my turn 1 I brought the Flayed ones through the Monolith with Dimensional Corridor and charged his screen; 40 Gaunts shredded. I decided not to charge with the Scytheguard as they would be wasted on gaunts. The Destroyers (veiled by the Cyptek) and Monolith softened up some Stealers.
Turn 2 Nids turn 2 saw most of the bugs descend on the Flayed ones in a feeding frenzy, while the last 20 Hormagants moved to screen out the Lychguard. I got lucky here as the Hive guard split fire between the Monolith and Lychguard, leaving the former on 1 wound, and only knocking over a few of the latter, who would get back up thanks to the Cryptek.
It looked very bad for the Necrons going into my second turn, having traded 20 Flayed ones for 40 Gaunts, and the Monolith being on its last legs. Fortunately Zandrekh was able to pull something out of the bag: He put MWBD and reroll charges on the Lychguard, then advanced towards one end of the Gaunt screen. Obyron then Ghostwalked himself and the Lychguard 6" further ahead, sidestepping the screen and setting up a charge on some Hive Guard, who were subsequently cut down. Meanwhile the Destroyers, and Monolith shot the other Hive Guard unit dead, and the Deceiver valiantly charged the Gaunts.
Turn 3 The Stealers Killed the Deceiver in CC, while the Warriors charged (but failed to wipe out) the Lychguard. The remaining Stealers and Gaunts scratched ineffectually at the monoliths paintwork.
On my 3rd turn, despite a heroic performance on turn 2, it was clear that I was not going to win the current fight. However, all the carnage so far had been taking place on the edge of the Tyranid deployment zone, leaving my Scarabs to peacefully score objectives elsewhere. Zandrekh did a 180, running away from the Nid lines, and Obyron Ghostwalked what was left of the Lychguard to safety. With the Destroyers also pulling back the bugs were left with nothing but a 2W Monolith to eat. That was all they did in their uneventful 4th turn.
Turn 4 On the Necron turn 4 Zandrekh did another 180 to launch Obyron and the Lychguard (now reinforced by two turns of RP) back into the Tyranids. Their valiant last stand kept the Tyranids from being able to score more objectives than the Scarabs and destroyers. Necrons Win!
TLDR: The Necrons launched themselves into a Tyranid horde with wanton abandon, and were slaughtered. However, this was enough to keep the Tyranids from scoring objectives, which a couple of Scarab units were able to scoop up and secure the win.
Hyperlogical Strategist is still solid, depending how you use it. In my list I almost always put 4 units in reserve at the beginning, so the 1 CP a round limit doesn't apply to those. After that, I'll still typically regen 2-3 the rest of the game, the end result being I rarely run out before turn 5-6
Nice report! I'm gonna field a very similar list, once all my stuff has arrived.
As for the hordes, did you not bring Seismic Assault on the Deceiver?
I did take Seismic assault but never used it. Instead I went with Sky of Falling Stars which usually does 6 wounds across 3 units. Seismic assault will only do 3 wounds on average to a 20 man squad. The Hive Guard and Warriors were viable targets for SoFS.
Had a very nice game today, against CSM/khorne daemons. He had a bloodthirster, two rhinos with 5 khorne berserkers and a champion/dark apostle in each, hellforged predator stuffed with flamers, 3 skull cannons, one hellbrute with plasma and rocket launcher, a unit of 8 havocs with 4 lascannons, 5 chaos space marines, 4 blood crushers, and 6 flesh hounds. My list :
We played the open war cards, dawn of war deployment. We had two goals. The player who kills the most points (for units completely destroyed) wins, or if one player holds two objective markers, one is his own deployment zone, and the other in the opponents deployment zone. My opponent deployed first, but i got turn 1. On the left side scarabs rushed forwards, followed by 10 immortals (buffed by the CCBsMWBD), and the CCB. My objective marker was about 10 inches from the left table edge, and his was about the same on the opposite side, diagonally.
In the middle the other scarab unit advanced, followed by advancing wraiths, and the destroyer lord. My two pylons almost killed a skullcannon, 1 wound left. Tesla immortals killed 2 blood crushers. CCB tried killing the 1 wound skull cannon, but failed. Wraith failed their charge on the middle rhino and the hellbrute. End of my turn 1.
Opponents turn 1
On the left side he advanced his rhino and popped smoke. The 2 blood crushers moved towards the scarabs, the hellforged predator too. In the middle the flesh hounds and the blood thirster moved towards the wraith, the rhino advanced trying to go round the wraith/scarab line, but didnt make it. On the left side the flamer predator killed 6 (!) scarab bases, one skull cannon killed 2 immortals from the 5 model unit which was sitting on my objective marker. The rest of his army concentrated his fire on my wraiths, two were killed. He charged the wraith with the hounds and the bloodthirster, killing another two of them. The remaining two wraith killed two hounds.
My turn 2
On the left side the scarabs, immortals, and CCB moved towards the rhino. Scarabs in the middle moved towards the rhino, wraith fell back from the hounds and bloodthirster towards the rhino. My destroyer lord moves towards the bloodthirster. My two pylons killed the flamer predator, it was within 18", multiple 2D6 damage hits discarding lowest roll reduced it to a pile of molten metal. Immortals buffed by MWBD from the CCB killed the remaining two blood crushers. At the end of my movement phase the cryptek veiled the 6 destroyers in the corner where his objective marker was. I played EP and shot the havocs, but only managed to kill 6 of them, they were in cover. On the left side immortals and scarabs charged the rhino and managed to surround it, it was at the table edge, which helped. Which means the rhino was trapped, the berzerkers couldnt disembark, and it couldnt fall back. In the middle the 2 wraiths and the scarabs charged the other rhino, also surrounding it, no disembark, and no fall back. The destroyer lord manages to do 2 damage to the bloodthirster before he gets ripped apart.
Opponents turn 2
His bloodthirster moved towards my wraith, the hounds move towards the scarabs. The 5 model unit CSM moves towards his objective marker. He concentrates his fire on the destroyers, which are in the open, and manages to kill 4 of them. The wraith and the scarabs manage to kill the rhino., and because there is no space the berzerkers inside are killed. The bloodthirster kills my two remaining wraith.
My turn 3
I only reanimate 1 destroyer, which sucks. The destroyers and cryptek move towards the havocs/CSM. The two pylons finish off the remaining skull cannons. The destroyers kill 4 CSM and charge the rest, but fail to kill the last havoc and the last marine, one destroyer is killed by them. Cryptek fails his charge. The scarabs try to hurt the bloodthirster, but only do 2 damage. In return the bloodthirster almost wiped out the entire unit, killing 7 bases. On the left side the immortals and the scarabs hit the rhino, but fail to do any major damage.
My opponent turn 3
His bloodthirster falls back from the 1 scarab base and moves towards his objective marker, good for me that he cant charge the destroyers, yet. Unfortunately he is outside of 36" range of my pylons, cant shoot him. My pylons were inside a ruin, impossible to move out with their 3" movement. The 1 CSM and the 1 remaining havoc kill one destroyer which had 1 wound left.
My turn 4
I fail to reanimate any destroyers. Immortals and scarabs still try to hurt the rhino, again failing to do any major damage. The cryptek makes his charge. Destroyers manage to kill the last marine, the one havoc remains. Cryptek fails his attack. The bloodthirster charges all of them, and of course kills them all.
Opponents turn 4
Not much left on the field. The bloodthirster moves towards my objektive marker, but is about 60" away, so he cant reach it. The last havoc with lascannon fails to hurt a pylon. Meanwhile the immortals and scarabs reduced the rhino to 3 wounds.
My turn 5 and my opponents turn 5 nothing relevant happens, the bloodthirster is to far away, and the immortals and scarabs fail to kill the rhino.
In the end i killed 1324 points, and my opponent 1052, i won. The CCB didnt do much, there were no characters to shoot, those were trapped inside the rhino. Wraiths didnt do much either, they were more of a distraction carnifex, absorbing a lot of fire, which they usually do. I almost won when the destroyers would have killed the marines, but they failed. Trapping the two rhinos tied up 10 berzerkers and two characters which would have done a lot of damage. The two pylons did very well, they killed more than their point cost, which is 350.
Wow his list is so bad compared to yours. Bloodcrushers and Bloodthirster are one of the most overpriced units in the game. He basically played 300 pts down just from that. He also footslogged them... yikes...
It was a tough fight as I ended up going second, and he had an 60 strong screen of little bugs- both very bad things for this type of list. 12 Hive Guard are also pretty scary.
The bugs deployed predictably in order of size: Hormagants at the front, Stealers behind, Warriors and Hive guard at the back, with all the characters in the middle to give out their buffs.
I put all my units in the back corner of my deployment zone ready to teleport, then Grand Illusion-ed the Monolith and Zandrekh (my "teleport homers") right in front of his army. This was obviously very risky going second, but the maths told me that 2 units of Hive Guard (one firing twice with a stratagem) do not kill a Monolith with average rolls.
Turn 1 The bugs spread out their screen a bit on turn 1, and took the Monolith down to 6 wounds.
On my turn 1 I brought the Flayed ones through the Monolith with Dimensional Corridor and charged his screen; 40 Gaunts shredded. I decided not to charge with the Scytheguard as they would be wasted on gaunts. The Destroyers (veiled by the Cyptek) and Monolith softened up some Stealers.
Why Jeanstealers no charge Monolith n Zany t1? He scare 3 attacks?
p5freak wrote: Had a very nice game today, against CSM/khorne daemons. He had a bloodthirster, two rhinos with 5 khorne berserkers and a champion/dark apostle in each, hellforged predator stuffed with flamers, 3 skull cannons, one hellbrute with plasma and rocket launcher, a unit of 8 havocs with 4 lascannons, 5 chaos space marines, 4 blood crushers, and 6 flesh hounds. My list :
We played the open war cards, dawn of war deployment. We had two goals. The player who kills the most points (for units completely destroyed) wins, or if one player holds two objective markers, one is his own deployment zone, and the other in the opponents deployment zone. My opponent deployed first, but i got turn 1. On the left side scarabs rushed forwards, followed by 10 immortals (buffed by the CCBsMWBD), and the CCB. My objective marker was about 10 inches from the left table edge, and his was about the same on the opposite side, diagonally.
In the middle the other scarab unit advanced, followed by advancing wraiths, and the destroyer lord. My two pylons almost killed a skullcannon, 1 wound left. Tesla immortals killed 2 blood crushers. CCB tried killing the 1 wound skull cannon, but failed. Wraith failed their charge on the middle rhino and the hellbrute. End of my turn 1.
Opponents turn 1
On the left side he advanced his rhino and popped smoke. The 2 blood crushers moved towards the scarabs, the hellforged predator too. In the middle the flesh hounds and the blood thirster moved towards the wraith, the rhino advanced trying to go round the wraith/scarab line, but didnt make it. On the left side the flamer predator killed 6 (!) scarab bases, one skull cannon killed 2 immortals from the 5 model unit which was sitting on my objective marker. The rest of his army concentrated his fire on my wraiths, two were killed. He charged the wraith with the hounds and the bloodthirster, killing another two of them. The remaining two wraith killed two hounds.
My turn 2
On the left side the scarabs, immortals, and CCB moved towards the rhino. Scarabs in the middle moved towards the rhino, wraith fell back from the hounds and bloodthirster towards the rhino. My destroyer lord moves towards the bloodthirster. My two pylons killed the flamer predator, it was within 18", multiple 2D6 damage hits discarding lowest roll reduced it to a pile of molten metal. Immortals buffed by MWBD from the CCB killed the remaining two blood crushers. At the end of my movement phase the cryptek veiled the 6 destroyers in the corner where his objective marker was. I played EP and shot the havocs, but only managed to kill 6 of them, they were in cover. On the left side immortals and scarabs charged the rhino and managed to surround it, it was at the table edge, which helped. Which means the rhino was trapped, the berzerkers couldnt disembark, and it couldnt fall back. In the middle the 2 wraiths and the scarabs charged the other rhino, also surrounding it, no disembark, and no fall back. The destroyer lord manages to do 2 damage to the bloodthirster before he gets ripped apart.
Opponents turn 2
His bloodthirster moved towards my wraith, the hounds move towards the scarabs. The 5 model unit CSM moves towards his objective marker. He concentrates his fire on the destroyers, which are in the open, and manages to kill 4 of them. The wraith and the scarabs manage to kill the rhino., and because there is no space the berzerkers inside are killed. The bloodthirster kills my two remaining wraith.
My turn 3
I only reanimate 1 destroyer, which sucks. The destroyers and cryptek move towards the havocs/CSM. The two pylons finish off the remaining skull cannons. The destroyers kill 4 CSM and charge the rest, but fail to kill the last havoc and the last marine, one destroyer is killed by them. Cryptek fails his charge. The scarabs try to hurt the bloodthirster, but only do 2 damage. In return the bloodthirster almost wiped out the entire unit, killing 7 bases. On the left side the immortals and the scarabs hit the rhino, but fail to do any major damage.
My opponent turn 3
His bloodthirster falls back from the 1 scarab base and moves towards his objective marker, good for me that he cant charge the destroyers, yet. Unfortunately he is outside of 36" range of my pylons, cant shoot him. My pylons were inside a ruin, impossible to move out with their 3" movement. The 1 CSM and the 1 remaining havoc kill one destroyer which had 1 wound left.
My turn 4
I fail to reanimate any destroyers. Immortals and scarabs still try to hurt the rhino, again failing to do any major damage. The cryptek makes his charge. Destroyers manage to kill the last marine, the one havoc remains. Cryptek fails his attack. The bloodthirster charges all of them, and of course kills them all.
Opponents turn 4
Not much left on the field. The bloodthirster moves towards my objektive marker, but is about 60" away, so he cant reach it. The last havoc with lascannon fails to hurt a pylon. Meanwhile the immortals and scarabs reduced the rhino to 3 wounds.
My turn 5 and my opponents turn 5 nothing relevant happens, the bloodthirster is to far away, and the immortals and scarabs fail to kill the rhino.
In the end i killed 1324 points, and my opponent 1052, i won. The CCB didnt do much, there were no characters to shoot, those were trapped inside the rhino. Wraiths didnt do much either, they were more of a distraction carnifex, absorbing a lot of fire, which they usually do. I almost won when the destroyers would have killed the marines, but they failed. Trapping the two rhinos tied up 10 berzerkers and two characters which would have done a lot of damage. The two pylons did very well, they killed more than their point cost, which is 350.
Cool game, love the feeling when one realizes that attrition kicks in and the other guy now looses more than you do and you are reanimating (not that your RPs seem to have gone that well, but he was definitely losing more than you from the sound of it)
Why Jeanstealers no charge Monolith n Zany t1? He scare 3 attacks?
I skip a lot of details when I do a write up just to get the general point across without writing too much.
Zandrekh was far enough back from the bug lines after being Grand Illusion-ed that only gaunts could charge him turn 1 (but close enough that he could have launched an Obyron charge after advancing). If my opponent had taken the bait with his gaunts there would have been a big hole in his screen.
I actually got 3 on the D3 for Grand Illusion, and used the extra 1 to place the 20 Flayed ones behind the Monolith and Zan, ready to counter charge. My opponents main priority was not letting flayed ones charge Genestealers so he didn't take that bait either. Even if the Flayed ones hadn't been right there, they could have been teleported to Zandrek to counter charge anything that hit the Monolith.
By keeping his screen up and forcing me to trade Flayed Ones for gaunts we both thought he'd won, because everything else in my list is bad at killing genestealers. He still had about 15 left when the game ended.
Why Jeanstealers no charge Monolith n Zany t1? He scare 3 attacks?
I skip a lot of details when I do a write up just to get the general point across without writing too much.
Zandrekh was far enough back from the bug lines after being Grand Illusion-ed that only gaunts could charge him turn 1 (but close enough that he could have launched an Obyron charge after advancing). If my opponent had taken the bait with his gaunts there would have been a big hole in his screen.
I actually got 3 on the D3 for Grand Illusion, and used the extra 1 to place the 20 Flayed ones behind the Monolith and Zan, ready to counter charge. My opponents main priority was not letting flayed ones charge Genestealers so he didn't take that bait either. Even if the Flayed ones hadn't been right there, they could have been teleported to Zandrek to counter charge anything that hit the Monolith.
By keeping his screen up and forcing me to trade Flayed Ones for gaunts we both thought he'd won, because everything else in my list is bad at killing genestealers. He still had about 15 left when the game ended.
Wouldn't it had been worth the price for him to charge Zahndrekh with his genestealers? Ah he didnt do the.. what is it.. Kraken hive fleet which lets his genestealers double move before charging?
torblind wrote: Wouldn't it had been worth the price for him to charge Zahndrekh with his genestealers? Ah he didnt do the.. what is it.. Kraken hive fleet which lets his genestealers double move before charging?
He was Kraken. As I said, I placed Zandrekh far enough back that only the gaunts could charge (although now I think about it, I don't know if I factored in the double run). If that was possible he would have then lost his stealers to the Flayed ones, which may have been worth it. In hindsight, with the Nids having lost the game, he might has well have tried.
However, had he attempted that and then failed the charge, he would have been really screwed. The strategy he adopted gave him a safe bet at winning the fight, and it did pay off: he wiped out most of my army while still having all his characters, most of a stealer squad, half his Warriors, and a handful of gaunts left. I just won on objectives.
He had the choice between playing it safe and winning the fight, or taking a gamble in order to win the fight more. His downfall was probably in not anticipating me abandoning the fight midway through, (ghostwalking the Lychguard back out) which dragged things out, and didn't leave enough time for him to grab objectives.
Edit: I think a bigger mistake may have been assuming his warriors and Prime could kill the Lychguard, so he sent 20 Stealers after the Deceiver. He probably could have just ignored the Deceiver.
Why Jeanstealers no charge Monolith n Zany t1? He scare 3 attacks?
I skip a lot of details when I do a write up just to get the general point across without writing too much.
Zandrekh was far enough back from the bug lines after being Grand Illusion-ed that only gaunts could charge him turn 1 (but close enough that he could have launched an Obyron charge after advancing). If my opponent had taken the bait with his gaunts there would have been a big hole in his screen.
I actually got 3 on the D3 for Grand Illusion, and used the extra 1 to place the 20 Flayed ones behind the Monolith and Zan, ready to counter charge. My opponents main priority was not letting flayed ones charge Genestealers so he didn't take that bait either. Even if the Flayed ones hadn't been right there, they could have been teleported to Zandrek to counter charge anything that hit the Monolith.
By keeping his screen up and forcing me to trade Flayed Ones for gaunts we both thought he'd won, because everything else in my list is bad at killing genestealers. He still had about 15 left when the game ended.
You indeed didn't mention you using Grand Illusion to reposition your Flayed Ones before turn 1, that means you could not charge with them turn 1 like you did and it means your opponent could still charge Zahndrekh and the Monolith without fear of a countercharge from the Flayed Ones.
What I don't get is why your opponent didn't swarm the Monolith with his Hormagaunts on T1 if you placed it right in front of his army as you said. Or if you did not place it 12" away, why he didn't just back off and shoot your destroyers, ignoring your Monolith because it was too far away to do anything. I posted a couple of battle reports recently with my opponents doing some really stupid stuff, like placing half their army on one side of a piece of terrain and the other half on the other side, allowing me to more than halve the amount of shooting I took, but it seems to me that the Monolith is so easy to counterplay that the scenario you posted just isn't feasible when you're going second. I suppose the ability to move after being redeployed means you have an 8"+2d6" charge range from the Monolith, that's still not a great charge distance should your opponent simply walk 8" away from you.
I'd recommend making the Monolith and the Flayed Ones and Monolith Novokh, you're not benefitting from the Sautekh Trait and I think the ability to fight twice with the Flayed Ones would be huge (remember that you'd have to declare a charge against the unit(s) you'd want to fight with the Novokh Stratagem, not just your regular attacks, but this could have meant you got to kill all your opponent's Genestealers as well as their Gaunts. If you could get the Flayed Ones and the Monolith into the Veilteks Detachment and make that entire Detachment Novokh that would probably be a huge power boost to your army, you'd have to get rid of a couple of Destroyers to fit another Elite unit in your army though and that's not great.
You indeed didn't mention you using Grand Illusion to reposition your Flayed Ones before turn 1, that means you could not charge with them turn 1 like you did and it means your opponent could still charge Zahndrekh and the Monolith without fear of a countercharge from the Flayed Ones.
!!! oh S***. I totally cheated him! I even didn't charge with the Deceiver because I know you can't after a Grand Illusion. I caught myself off guard by rolling a 3 on the D3.
Had I not used GI on the Flayed ones I think the game would have played out the same, because they teleported anyway. And the threat of them counter charging did not require them to be GI, they could have teleported in by a variety of means.
As for the rest of your points:
When a horde of over 100 Tyranids deploy in a 12" Deployment zone (Dawn of War), there really isn't anywhere to move back to. In addition, there are a few different ways to use the teleporing tricks in this list. for example using Dimensional Corridor on Zandrekh, then ghostwalking a unit in, gives an average charge range of 25.5" from the Monolith.
Swarming the Monolith: This would have been more of an option had we not forgotten that the Flayed Ones weren't allowed to charge. Even without that, in order for it to be of any use the Monolith would have to be completely surrounded. That would have prevented a unit coming out of the Monolith to kill his screen... which would be completely unnecessary if said screen had just taken itself out of position to charge the monolith.
Ultimately, my list had two powerful assault units and various ways of teleporting into combat such as:
Dimensional Corridor to Monolith Ghostwalk to Zhandrekh Get Veiled in and try a 9" charge (8" with MWBD, sometimes a free reroll from Zan) Dimensional Corridor Zandrekh > Ghostwalk from Zandrkeh Dimensional Corridor Obyron to collect a unit > Ghostwalk from Zan Veil Obyron to collect a unit > Ghostwalk from Zan Veil Zandrekh > Ghostwalk to Zandrekh Veil Obyron to pick up a unit, Dimensional Corridor Zandrekh, then Ghostwalk picked up unit to Zandrekh Dimensional Corridor/Veil a unit to meet up with Obyron > Ghostwalk to Zandrekh Dimensional Corridor the Cryptek to pick up Zan> Vieil Zan> Ghostwalk to Zan There are possibly more combinations.
My opponent knew enough about the list to know that there were many different shenanigans, and had the good sense to know that ALL of them can be defended against by simply keeping your screens up, so he kept his screens up.
Re: Novokh. My previous list was Novokh and just used the Deceiver, Monolith and Veil. It worked well enough, and you lose a lot by going Sautekh, but I found teleporting around so entertaining that I wanted maximum teleport shenanigans. Mixing Dynastys limits which units can interact with each other and reduces options. This is not supposed to be a "good" list.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: ... but I found teleporting around so entertaining that I wanted maximum teleport shenanigans. Mixing Dynastys limits which units can interact with each other and reduces options. This is not supposed to be a "good" list.
I find it quite funny that at this point in the game mobility (and possibly Quantum Shielding) is the distinguishing factor for Necrons of all factions.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: ... but I found teleporting around so entertaining that I wanted maximum teleport shenanigans. Mixing Dynastys limits which units can interact with each other and reduces options. This is not supposed to be a "good" list.
I find it quite funny that at this point in the game mobility (and possibly Quantum Shielding) is the distinguishing factor for Necrons of all factions.
Yeah I never thought about all those teleport comboes, pretty cool
torblind wrote: Has anyone built around using other Canoptek units with the Adaptive Subroutines stratagem?
6 Nephrekh Acanthrites could advance 18" and shoot their meltaguns to within 6" meltaguns range. A unit of tomb blades could tag along and bring their gauss fire in rapid fire range of the same target.
This could potentially obliterate all MEQ/TEQ units on an entire flank.
They would be survivable enough -1 to hit, multiple wounds, decent save, RP) that he would likely divert the entire rest of his army to do anything noteworthy to them.
Of course, elite infantry isn't that prominent at this point in 8th. And the Acanthrites really should have had S8 on their cutter. Don't really have much else going for them.
I took a unit of 9 Nephrekh Acanthrites in a 750 pt game, the map was pretty open and my opponent was playing AM which have a WL trait that allows all units within 6" to re-roll failed wound rolls against a single unit you pick during deployment, I only had 4 CP so when my opponent killed the first three or four in the unit I tried waiting another turn to get more value, but then I was out of range of my Cryptek the next turn so I'd only be getting back up on a 5+ and the turn after that they were dead, losing I think 5 in one turn from the stupid horsemen with the exploding lances.
You're certainly getting the most bang for your buck CP-wise when reviving up to 480 pts for 2 CP, but the unit seems too expensive and you'll probably be forced to revive them sooner rather than later if you don't want to risk losing the entire unit before using the Stratagem even once. Each of them costs a fair bit more than a Destroyer, that's a hard sell for me, you get Reanimation Protocols for free on the Destroyers and what they lack in durability (-1 to hit) they make up for in range and the ability to grab cover. The nerf to FLY in the Charge and Fight phase is another nail in a coffin that I already didn't want to bother trying to open.
torblind wrote: Has anyone built around using other Canoptek units with the Adaptive Subroutines stratagem?
6 Nephrekh Acanthrites could advance 18" and shoot their meltaguns to within 6" meltaguns range. A unit of tomb blades could tag along and bring their gauss fire in rapid fire range of the same target.
This could potentially obliterate all MEQ/TEQ units on an entire flank.
They would be survivable enough -1 to hit, multiple wounds, decent save, RP) that he would likely divert the entire rest of his army to do anything noteworthy to them.
Of course, elite infantry isn't that prominent at this point in 8th. And the Acanthrites really should have had S8 on their cutter. Don't really have much else going for them.
I took a unit of 9 Nephrekh Acanthrites in a 750 pt game, the map was pretty open and my opponent was playing AM which have a WL trait that allows all units within 6" to re-roll failed wound rolls against a single unit you pick during deployment, I only had 4 CP so when my opponent killed the first three or four in the unit I tried waiting another turn to get more value, but then I was out of range of my Cryptek the next turn so I'd only be getting back up on a 5+ and the turn after that they were dead, losing I think 5 in one turn from the stupid horsemen with the exploding lances.
You're certainly getting the most bang for your buck CP-wise when reviving up to 480 pts for 2 CP, but the unit seems too expensive and you'll probably be forced to revive them sooner rather than later if you don't want to risk losing the entire unit before using the Stratagem even once. Each of them costs a fair bit more than a Destroyer, that's a hard sell for me, you get Reanimation Protocols for free on the Destroyers and what they lack in durability (-1 to hit) they make up for in range and the ability to grab cover. The nerf to FLY in the Charge and Fight phase is another nail in a coffin that I already didn't want to bother trying to open.
Also there isn't really any good targets for them in the typical AM setup, sentinels sure, but they're certainly overkill for that. The T7 vehicles are likely further back and you're faced with T8 LRBTs against which S7 is the worst possible strength for it's price.
They'd likely be far better suited for elite power armour units. Centurions and the like. Dreadnoughts perhaps.
I'm amazed that you have 9 of the little buggers. Did you try the wraith conversion?
Boy, normally I am not one who blames the dice in a match but that last one....
5x the DDA rolled a 1 for D6 shots.
3x the Nightbringer got a 1 on his D6 for his shooting. He also did one wooping mortal wound over 4 round with his powers.
And last but not least; 20 Warriors rapid-fire with MWBD, Solar Pulse and Talent for Anhilation. Killed a grant total of 5 SCIONS!!!
Doctoralex wrote: Boy, normally I am not one who blames the dice in a match but that last one....
5x the DDA rolled a 1 for D6 shots.
3x the Nightbringer got a 1 on his D6 for his shooting. He also did one wooping mortal wound over 4 round with his powers.
And last but not least; 20 Warriors rapid-fire with MWBD, Solar Pulse and Talent for Anhilation. Killed a grant total of 5 SCIONS!!!
Ugh....
Man I don't know what I'd do if I started getting unlucky again, I think I might just quit, or play Aeldari, mirror how I switched from Eldar to Necrons when the Warddex hit.
I'm amazed that you have 9 of the little buggers. Did you try the wraith conversion?
Never said I owned any Acanthrites. I have a converted Pylon, but have otherwise strayed from FW, between owning most of the codex stuff and the FW stuff not really being any better I just don't see much reason to get them since the models aren't really any better IMO. After my vacation next Feburary we'll see if I have money for the big new FW gripplie, if it's not 700 pts or something.
I won a 2K Maelstrom game against a newb with a mostly Primaris Ultramarine list with my Canonoptek Nephrekh + Sautekh Battalion + C'tan trio list. My opponent deployed 18" away from my Wraiths and all his units were deployed in one big blob. I got first turn and Deceiver pulled Nightbringer up 12" from my opponent's buff blob. I forgot to use MWBD. I should have switched one of the Nightbringer's powers for Cosmic Fire with the Stratagem to follow up the Deceiver's 9 unit Cosmic Fire, instead he fired a Transdimensional Thunderbolt at 4 units. I forgot to use the Nightbringers ranged attack T1. I used a random power with the Deceiver and it killed a single Primaris Marine, pretty underwhelming for 2 CP. I moved forward and shot with my Immortals, this was a mistake, it killed a few Primaris Marines, but if I'd hidden them away my opponent would have had nothing to shoot at during his turn. Wraiths charged T1 and made an unlucky Marine their prisoner, protecting my Deceiver and Nightbringer from shooting. My opponent killed 10 Immortals and a Wraith. At the end of my second turn I've killed the majority of my opponent's list and all but 10 Primaris Marines are locked in CC, my opponent surrenders at this point.
I think I need to be more careful with this list against newbs, between the Advance and charge stratagem, the switching power strat, the Deceiver's ability to relocate, the shards exploding when they die, all six powers of the C'tan, the ability to give Reanimation to Wraiths, the ability to suicide with Scarabs. Properly educating my opponent before the game begins is a huge hassle and winning based on your opponent not knowing what your units do isn't legitimate in my view. I do have all my rules handy with note cards and stuff, maybe it was just a newb doing newb stuff that had nothing to do with me not educating him about my list. I could have organised my Stratagem cards better, taken the ones not available to this list out of the deck so I'd have an easier time finding the ones I'm looking for and to make it less of a daunting task for my opponent to read all of them.
Doctoralex wrote: Boy, normally I am not one who blames the dice in a match but that last one....
5x the DDA rolled a 1 for D6 shots.
3x the Nightbringer got a 1 on his D6 for his shooting. He also did one wooping mortal wound over 4 round with his powers.
And last but not least; 20 Warriors rapid-fire with MWBD, Solar Pulse and Talent for Anhilation. Killed a grant total of 5 SCIONS!!!
Ugh....
Man I don't know what I'd do if I started getting unlucky again, I think I might just quit, or play Aeldari, mirror how I switched from Eldar to Necrons when the Warddex hit.
I'm amazed that you have 9 of the little buggers. Did you try the wraith conversion?
Never said I owned any Acanthrites. I have a converted Pylon, but have otherwise strayed from FW, between owning most of the codex stuff and the FW stuff not really being any better I just don't see much reason to get them since the models aren't really any better IMO. After my vacation next Feburary we'll see if I have money for the big new FW gripplie, if it's not 700 pts or something.
I won a 2K Maelstrom game against a newb with a mostly Primaris Ultramarine list with my Canonoptek Nephrekh + Sautekh Battalion + C'tan trio list. My opponent deployed 18" away from my Wraiths and all his units were deployed in one big blob. I got first turn and Deceiver pulled Nightbringer up 12" from my opponent's buff blob. I forgot to use MWBD. I should have switched one of the Nightbringer's powers for Cosmic Fire with the Stratagem to follow up the Deceiver's 9 unit Cosmic Fire, instead he fired a Transdimensional Thunderbolt at 4 units. I forgot to use the Nightbringers ranged attack T1. I used a random power with the Deceiver and it killed a single Primaris Marine, pretty underwhelming for 2 CP. I moved forward and shot with my Immortals, this was a mistake, it killed a few Primaris Marines, but if I'd hidden them away my opponent would have had nothing to shoot at during his turn. Wraiths charged T1 and made an unlucky Marine their prisoner, protecting my Deceiver and Nightbringer from shooting. My opponent killed 10 Immortals and a Wraith. At the end of my second turn I've killed the majority of my opponent's list and all but 10 Primaris Marines are locked in CC, my opponent surrenders at this point.
I think I need to be more careful with this list against newbs, between the Advance and charge stratagem, the switching power strat, the Deceiver's ability to relocate, the shards exploding when they die, all six powers of the C'tan, the ability to give Reanimation to Wraiths, the ability to suicide with Scarabs. Properly educating my opponent before the game begins is a huge hassle and winning based on your opponent not knowing what your units do isn't legitimate in my view. I do have all my rules handy with note cards and stuff, maybe it was just a newb doing newb stuff that had nothing to do with me not educating him about my list. I could have organised my Stratagem cards better, taken the ones not available to this list out of the deck so I'd have an easier time finding the ones I'm looking for and to make it less of a daunting task for my opponent to read all of them.
I applaud the attitude, but It's a lot to take in, I would say its a healthy part of becoming a better gamer that you learn by to grasp what your friendly opponent across the table talk about, when he informs you of what his army does. Even for a seasoned player not well aware of the necron codex that would be a lot to take in, from max advancing, CP to charge anyway, exploding scarabs, weird C'Tans and MW left and right.
He most likely couldn't take it all in anyway, but he got some good learning by seeing what it did to his army.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Did you proxy the Arcathrites with tomb blades then?
It looked very bad for the Necrons going into my second turn, having traded 20 Flayed ones for 40 Gaunts, and the Monolith being on its last legs. Fortunately Zandrekh was able to pull something out of the bag: He put MWBD and reroll charges on the Lychguard, then advanced towards one end of the Gaunt screen. Obyron then Ghostwalked himself and the Lychguard 6" further ahead, sidestepping the screen and setting up a charge on some Hive Guard, who were subsequently cut down.
Unfortunately, i'm pretty sure you what you did is a no go. When you remove a unit from the table, they lose all buffs, so those lychguard should have lost MWBD. Probably not a big deal, but mentioning it cause it irks me to no end to not be able to do it and launch scytheguard with a 8'' charge from the veil
It looked very bad for the Necrons going into my second turn, having traded 20 Flayed ones for 40 Gaunts, and the Monolith being on its last legs. Fortunately Zandrekh was able to pull something out of the bag: He put MWBD and reroll charges on the Lychguard, then advanced towards one end of the Gaunt screen. Obyron then Ghostwalked himself and the Lychguard 6" further ahead, sidestepping the screen and setting up a charge on some Hive Guard, who were subsequently cut down.
Unfortunately, i'm pretty sure you what you did is a no go. When you remove a unit from the table, they lose all buffs, so those lychguard should have lost MWBD. Probably not a big deal, but mentioning it cause it irks me to no end to not be able to do it and launch scytheguard with a 8'' charge from the veil
Pretty sure they only specified you lose the buffs if they leave via Psychic powers, so technically you keep MWBD if you use Veil etc.
Whether that's what they intended is another story, though I find it weird that you lose the buff in any case. Yet another nerf to Grey Knights, lord knows they needed it.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: ... but I found teleporting around so entertaining that I wanted maximum teleport shenanigans. Mixing Dynastys limits which units can interact with each other and reduces options. This is not supposed to be a "good" list.
I find it quite funny that at this point in the game mobility (and possibly Quantum Shielding) is the distinguishing factor for Necrons of all factions.
Necrons were actually always mobile outside Warriors. Immortals had Assault 2 24" weapons (which was cool with 4th edition's Rapidfire rules), the Monolith, Flayed Ones, Destroyers, Wraiths and Scarabs, and the Veil.
It looked very bad for the Necrons going into my second turn, having traded 20 Flayed ones for 40 Gaunts, and the Monolith being on its last legs. Fortunately Zandrekh was able to pull something out of the bag: He put MWBD and reroll charges on the Lychguard, then advanced towards one end of the Gaunt screen. Obyron then Ghostwalked himself and the Lychguard 6" further ahead, sidestepping the screen and setting up a charge on some Hive Guard, who were subsequently cut down.
Unfortunately, i'm pretty sure you what you did is a no go. When you remove a unit from the table, they lose all buffs, so those lychguard should have lost MWBD. Probably not a big deal, but mentioning it cause it irks me to no end to not be able to do it and launch scytheguard with a 8'' charge from the veil
Pretty sure they only specified you lose the buffs if they leave via Psychic powers, so technically you keep MWBD if you use Veil etc.
Whether that's what they intended is another story, though I find it weird that you lose the buff in any case. Yet another nerf to Grey Knights, lord knows they needed it.
It was strategems that the FAQ applies to, so ghostwalk and VoD are fine.
It looked very bad for the Necrons going into my second turn, having traded 20 Flayed ones for 40 Gaunts, and the Monolith being on its last legs. Fortunately Zandrekh was able to pull something out of the bag: He put MWBD and reroll charges on the Lychguard, then advanced towards one end of the Gaunt screen. Obyron then Ghostwalked himself and the Lychguard 6" further ahead, sidestepping the screen and setting up a charge on some Hive Guard, who were subsequently cut down.
Unfortunately, i'm pretty sure you what you did is a no go. When you remove a unit from the table, they lose all buffs, so those lychguard should have lost MWBD. Probably not a big deal, but mentioning it cause it irks me to no end to not be able to do it and launch scytheguard with a 8'' charge from the veil
Pretty sure they only specified you lose the buffs if they leave via Psychic powers, so technically you keep MWBD if you use Veil etc.
Whether that's what they intended is another story, though I find it weird that you lose the buff in any case. Yet another nerf to Grey Knights, lord knows they needed it.
It was strategems that the FAQ applies to, so ghostwalk and VoD are fine.
wow... this is right, if a bit scummy! I had never seen the distinction that they said ''from a stratagem''. Can't wait to try it out on 10 teleporting lychguard for that +1 to charge, or veil of darkness-ing a squad of 10 MWBD teslamortals!
Idea here is to place either 6 destroyers or the warriors, and to place the other in deepstrike. Deceiver places the wraiths on a midboard objective, possibly moves the dda to have better los. Pop the strat with the wraiths to give 2 up invul early to soak firepower, use nephrekh mobility for early board control and go from there. ITC missions.
Idea here is to place either 6 destroyers or the warriors, and to place the other in deepstrike. Deceiver places the wraiths on a midboard objective, possibly moves the dda to have better los. Pop the strat with the wraiths to give 2 up invul early to soak firepower, use nephrekh mobility for early board control and go from there. ITC missions.
Let me know your thoughts!
You'd be better off with Nephrekh Wraiths over Nihilakh Wraiths, keep in mind that the Stratagem is used at the end of your turn, so if your opponent gets first turn the Wraiths might be in trouble. I'd cut a few Warriors to get a full squad of Tesla Immortals for maximum damage output T1 with your Overlord. I also think the Spyder is overpriced.
I'd make the Nephrekh Battalion Sautekh, you can re-deploy key units with the Deceiver anyways and you won't benefit much from Immortal Pride I don't think. In that case, you'd want to keep the Wraiths Nihilakh. Making the entire list Sautekh is also a pretty good option, then change the Wraiths so you get two full squads of Immortals and then a bunch of Scarabs or replace the Spyder with a third DDA.
Idea here is to place either 6 destroyers or the warriors, and to place the other in deepstrike. Deceiver places the wraiths on a midboard objective, possibly moves the dda to have better los. Pop the strat with the wraiths to give 2 up invul early to soak firepower, use nephrekh mobility for early board control and go from there. ITC missions.
Let me know your thoughts!
You'd be better off with Nephrekh Wraiths over Nihilakh Wraiths, keep in mind that the Stratagem is used at the end of your turn, so if your opponent gets first turn the Wraiths might be in trouble. I'd cut a few Warriors to get a full squad of Tesla Immortals for maximum damage output T1 with your Overlord. I also think the Spyder is overpriced.
I'd make the Nephrekh Battalion Sautekh, you can re-deploy key units with the Deceiver anyways and you won't benefit much from Immortal Pride I don't think. In that case, you'd want to keep the Wraiths Nihilakh. Making the entire list Sautekh is also a pretty good option, then change the Wraiths so you get two full squads of Immortals and then a bunch of Scarabs or replace the Spyder with a third DDA.
I'd cut the Warrriors in favour of more Tesla Immortals. Warriors can't fire if you advance, better synergy with Immortals.
Honestly I'd cut the Deceiver. if you don't get first turn, the wraiths don't get the buff from stratagem and if you do, you can just advance them up the field onto an objective anyway. For the points he's costing you, I don't see him adding much here. Cut his ass, get a third Doomsday Ark, drop the spider and use the points to max out the Immortal squads.
Deceiver is fun, but he's so pricey you need to build around him to maximise his worth.
iGuy91 wrote: So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
When doing the math, make sure you calculate as if he has a 4+ invulnerable save against the shooting, since Traitor Knights still have the rotating ion shield stratagem for one point. You should be averaging 15 damage per Pylon.
iGuy91 wrote: So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
When doing the math, make sure you calculate as if he has a 4+ invulnerable save against the shooting, since Traitor Knights still have the rotating ion shield stratagem for one point. You should be averaging 15 damage per Pylon.
Shouldn't the math come out to 16? Since a shot's damage from the Pylon is doubled vs Titanic Targets, you can do 14, 16, or 18 points of damage with a unsaved wound, so 2 wounds from a Pylon is a guaranteed kill on any knight model in the game rolling minimum damage.
iGuy91 wrote: So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
When doing the math, make sure you calculate as if he has a 4+ invulnerable save against the shooting, since Traitor Knights still have the rotating ion shield stratagem for one point. You should be averaging 15 damage per Pylon.
Wait, Traitor Knights don't have the +1 invuln relic?
Idea here is to place either 6 destroyers or the warriors, and to place the other in deepstrike. Deceiver places the wraiths on a midboard objective, possibly moves the dda to have better los. Pop the strat with the wraiths to give 2 up invul early to soak firepower, use nephrekh mobility for early board control and go from there. ITC missions.
Let me know your thoughts!
You'd be better off with Nephrekh Wraiths over Nihilakh Wraiths, keep in mind that the Stratagem is used at the end of your turn, so if your opponent gets first turn the Wraiths might be in trouble. I'd cut a few Warriors to get a full squad of Tesla Immortals for maximum damage output T1 with your Overlord. I also think the Spyder is overpriced.
I'd make the Nephrekh Battalion Sautekh, you can re-deploy key units with the Deceiver anyways and you won't benefit much from Immortal Pride I don't think. In that case, you'd want to keep the Wraiths Nihilakh. Making the entire list Sautekh is also a pretty good option, then change the Wraiths so you get two full squads of Immortals and then a bunch of Scarabs or replace the Spyder with a third DDA.
I'd cut the Warrriors in favour of more Tesla Immortals. Warriors can't fire if you advance, better synergy with Immortals.
Honestly I'd cut the Deceiver. if you don't get first turn, the wraiths don't get the buff from stratagem and if you do, you can just advance them up the field onto an objective anyway. For the points he's costing you, I don't see him adding much here. Cut his ass, get a third Doomsday Ark, drop the spider and use the points to max out the Immortal squads.
Deceiver is fun, but he's so pricey you need to build around him to maximise his worth.
I actually like the warriors, I use them for bubble wrap around my DDA.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This may be wish listy a bit but...
Does anyone think we got robbed on not getting a Strategem like Tide of Traitors for Necrons? I mean, the whole theme of the army is Reanimate, rise from the dead. If we had a similar stratagem do you think that would increase our competitiveness. Probably just limit it to troops, or maybe even only warriors for balance purposes. Make it a once per game stratagem.
I suppose it would be nice to have, but your opponent will always aim to destroy whole squads anyway, so it would essentially have the same strengths and weaknesses that RP currently has.
I agree, however, that it would be a a very Necron thing to have, since it basically combines the deepstrike/teleport aspect with the resurrection mechanic.
In general I like to have diversity between armies, so I'm not a fan of having the same or very similar stratagems across different factions.
iGuy91 wrote: So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
When doing the math, make sure you calculate as if he has a 4+ invulnerable save against the shooting, since Traitor Knights still have the rotating ion shield stratagem for one point. You should be averaging 15 damage per Pylon.
Shouldn't the math come out to 16? Since a shot's damage from the Pylon is doubled vs Titanic Targets, you can do 14, 16, or 18 points of damage with a unsaved wound, so 2 wounds from a Pylon is a guaranteed kill on any knight model in the game rolling minimum damage.
effective BS 3+ (the profile is -1 against non-fly) at D6 shots per pylon, d3+6 damage per wound that gets past the invulnerable save of 4+ (they will use the stratagem to get a +1 invuln save)
I was using this dicehammer site to do the math, http://www.dice-hammer.com/#!/damage filling in the info it does come out to 15.56 average (after doubling) damage per Pylon.
If they did not use the stratagem it would be 20.74
iGuy91 wrote: So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
When doing the math, make sure you calculate as if he has a 4+ invulnerable save against the shooting, since Traitor Knights still have the rotating ion shield stratagem for one point. You should be averaging 15 damage per Pylon.
Wait, Traitor Knights don't have the +1 invuln relic?
The only relic they have is an enemy leadership modifier.
They do have the +1 invulnerability save stratagem that costs them 1 command point, which lasts until the end of the phase.
On a sidenote, I just noticed that the Night Shroud Bomber is somewhat different from its smaller siblings. It has T7 vs T6, which comes in handy, and for a 14W model it's top bracket lasts all the way down to 6W, its first at 3-5W it reaches its second highest level.
Its special bombardment ability is not much, and I don't see mysef digging 80£ + shipping for one any time soon, but if I come across one, it could be fun to play in a friendly game.
though I'm not sure who among my regular oponents would field a "unit of vehicles" to perhaps get the max out of its bomb.
Adeptus Mechanicus is the only army I can think of that regularly fields "units of vehicles" and even then I don't think the chicken walkers are considered to be top tier competitive (I just have one guy I play with who really loves them).
The difference between T6 and T7 isn't as big as you think, either. Most anti-tank is going to be S8 or S9, against which the difference in toughness is irrelevant. It only really comes up with autocannons... Which in my experience people only take when they's specifically tailoring against Necrons. >.>
IHateNids wrote: Just out of interest, whats the current viewpoints around the Milipedes?
you get a deep strike monster that's no pushover in combat, and comes with a gloom prism to boot for a measly 5pts extra
Finally built mine, and I'm wondering what the general concensus is in relation
The gloom prism is nice...but for survivability and deep striking you could just do Nephrehk Wraiths, and probably come out ahead IMO...which stinks because they are suuuuuper cool models.
IHateNids wrote: Just out of interest, whats the current viewpoints around the Milipedes?
you get a deep strike monster that's no pushover in combat, and comes with a gloom prism to boot for a measly 5pts extra
Finally built mine, and I'm wondering what the general concensus is in relation
The gloom prism is nice...but for survivability and deep striking you could just do Nephrehk Wraiths, and probably come out ahead IMO...which stinks because they are suuuuuper cool models.
True. I have built one, it's one of the coolest things I have, but it doesn't get much table time.
You could make a case for it as a way to counter gunlines, deep strike, shoot tanks with S10 and then charge them. But one centipede does not a spring make and we don't have that ich points to throw around
IHateNids wrote: Just out of interest, whats the current viewpoints around the Milipedes?
you get a deep strike monster that's no pushover in combat, and comes with a gloom prism to boot for a measly 5pts extra
Finally built mine, and I'm wondering what the general concensus is in relation
Its a very cool looking model, but rules wise it sucks. I have two borrowed from a friend to test them out, played them as sentinels. As usual with necrons its to expensive. The stalker only has a 12" gun with the usual highly random D6 shots, damage 3 is nice, though. No QS, no inv. You must play it as sautekh, to ignore the move and fire heavy weapon penalty. I had to advance to get it in weapon range, which means -1 to hit. Both got nerfed with the new tactical reserve beta rule. With the deceiver the sentinel cant shoot because you have to be more than 12" away from the enemy.
iGuy91 wrote: So, a buddy of mine is getting cocky thinking his traitor knight/deathguard list is unbeatable.
Is running an x2 Pylon List to counter the knights, and basically backfilling a whole lot of warriors a rude solution to this dilemma?
Mathematically, the Plyons should blow up both knights turn 1, so its a niche hard counter, but it would be oh-so gratifying.
When doing the math, make sure you calculate as if he has a 4+ invulnerable save against the shooting, since Traitor Knights still have the rotating ion shield stratagem for one point. You should be averaging 15 damage per Pylon.
If he plans to use 2 pylons to destroy 2 knights that means he's assuming to shoot at 1 per knight thus only one knight has extra inv boost. One is plain naked(and you would be likely better off shooting at the undamaged anyway if odds are good you will minimum put second to last bracket if not blow it up).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arachnofiend wrote: Adeptus Mechanicus is the only army I can think of that regularly fields "units of vehicles" and even then I don't think the chicken walkers are considered to be top tier competitive (I just have one guy I play with who really loves them).
The difference between T6 and T7 isn't as big as you think, either. Most anti-tank is going to be S8 or S9, against which the difference in toughness is irrelevant. It only really comes up with autocannons... Which in my experience people only take when they's specifically tailoring against Necrons. >.>
Orks have some as well which might see more use with codex.
Also autocannon type of weapons have become popular after dark eldars got in as they are perfect for hitting those DE vehicles as well and DE are pretty damn common in tournaments.
Played a game this weekend. Correct me if I am wrong, but the changes to the FLY keyword and how it doesn't work in charges does NOT impact our Wraiths. Is this correct?
Arachnofiend wrote: Adeptus Mechanicus is the only army I can think of that regularly fields "units of vehicles" and even then I don't think the chicken walkers are considered to be top tier competitive (I just have one guy I play with who really loves them).
The difference between T6 and T7 isn't as big as you think, either. Most anti-tank is going to be S8 or S9, against which the difference in toughness is irrelevant. It only really comes up with autocannons... Which in my experience people only take when they's specifically tailoring against Necrons. >.>
Orks have some as well which might see more use with codex.
Also autocannon type of weapons have become popular after dark eldars got in as they are perfect for hitting those DE vehicles as well and DE are pretty damn common in tournaments.
So the Night Shroud Bomber might have something going for it.
Not competitively, but something.
Funny how that mini-addiction starts churning in the back of one's mind with only that shred of an excuse to get a new model... something on ebay? hm.. not yet... £80.. is that really so bad... dunno.... resin sucks but this model has big plain pieces.. shouldn't be too bad... hm.., time to assemble and paint it... not important...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dynas wrote: Played a game this weekend. Correct me if I am wrong, but the changes to the FLY keyword and how it doesn't work in charges does NOT impact our Wraiths. Is this correct?
Wraiths had special mention in the necron faq, giving them the same limitation effectively
Dynas wrote: Played a game this weekend. Correct me if I am wrong, but the changes to the FLY keyword and how it doesn't work in charges does NOT impact our Wraiths. Is this correct?
Sadly Wraiths received the same treatment (see necron FAQ) as the harlequins.
To be fair, I forgot half the time they HAD that rule, so it won't effect my use of them too much. 99% of the time they are an intentional distraction Carnifex for me to have my enemy focus on while something else does the real killing.
Hey guys, I was thinking of picking up Necrons as a 2nd army and was wondering what the state of their codex is and how some of my favourite Cron units are. I tend to enjoy their beefier foot models. Not a fan of Flayed Ones, Warriors and Destroyers but I love Immortals, Deathmarks, Lychguard and Praetorian, as well as most of their bug servitors and flayers/vehicles.
GenRifDrake wrote: Hey guys, I was thinking of picking up Necrons as a 2nd army and was wondering what the state of their codex is and how some of my favourite Cron units are. I tend to enjoy their beefier foot models. Not a fan of Flayed Ones, Warriors and Destroyers but I love Immortals, Deathmarks, Lychguard and Praetorian, as well as most of their bug servitors and flayers/vehicles.
Necrons are... really bad right now. We're generally considered the second worst codex after Grey Knights. There's some rumor mill going around that we're getting serious buffs in Chapter Approved so you might want to wait until December before starting the army.
GenRifDrake wrote: Hey guys, I was thinking of picking up Necrons as a 2nd army and was wondering what the state of their codex is and how some of my favourite Cron units are. I tend to enjoy their beefier foot models. Not a fan of Flayed Ones, Warriors and Destroyers but I love Immortals, Deathmarks, Lychguard and Praetorian, as well as most of their bug servitors and flayers/vehicles.
Necrons are... really bad right now. We're generally considered the second worst codex after Grey Knights. There's some rumor mill going around that we're getting serious buffs in Chapter Approved so you might want to wait until December before starting the army.
It's more like "They are amazing in a casual setting" but "Very sub-par in a competitive setting".
The gist of it that you can't really go wrong in building a Necron army but you can't make it a super broken competitive tier army.
I mean yeah, anything works if you assume your opponent is bad at the game. I generally assume that people who ask about if a faction is good or not are working from the position of competing against people who are, on some level, playing to win, and if your opponent has an even marginally competitive mindset Necrons struggle on multiple levels.
Ok as if Rp'ing I've gone dormant for a few months from the hobby but I feel I should make an appearance. A friend of mine and shop owner is having a Birthday event where it's him vs all comers so like 10k vs 5x 2k armies etc where the number is at least equal to what he's running but can be more if a lot of people show up and we all get the minimum point lists.
And as if to add extra spice to the deadline my computers down at home with my only copy of the codex as well as all my pregen lists and various notes on how things interacted in my own words so I could re-acclimate myself promptly.
Anywho I need help coming up with a list to aid our unholy alliance against some Imperial soup.
I only have intel that one player will probably be running demons and will be playing Red Boi and maybe Cat on a keyboard, the rest of the composition is unknown.
Another one or two will probably be doing Tau, most likely they'll combine points and work together with one running infantry and the other armor/railguns.
Maybe one imperial guard player, likely running knights squad (guy i went in on our box set with) too but that's all the players I know well enough to guess..
-------------
Part of me says sit back and see how long I can last by doing something basic like Artillery support with a pylon and a couple of doomsday arks and maybe some repair units. But I have vague recollection that our artillery is kind of 'meh' in the sense its a coin flip on if it works and then we see if enemy ignores it for whatever reason.
Another part of me says 'if you are going super heavy anyway go in your face' and run 1 or 2 Tessearct ark, (maybe 1 pylon with tp if I have the points) and deceiver and just deploy into max saturation for power effects to bukakke his army and leave it to everyone else to clean up. Though I'd never used TA even before so with my brain on reset mode this could get pretty difficult pretty fast.
Even if I felt like being the 'vanguard' (since meat shield isn't fitting for crons) for advancing forces I know I dont want to run over 100 infantry if only because of space concerns that and the time it'd take to move all of that.
How bout doing teleport shenanigans. Deep strike two monoliths turn two or three, keep a couple of mephrit warriors or novokh lychguard in the back and eternity gate them forward to cause pain.
Or obyron zahndrekh teleporting.
Let the others worry about the gun line (Tau/guard) midfield (daemons) etc. While you go for the fun jump around
Admittedly the idea of Necron acting as commandos and completely trying to stay on the sidelines as much as possible until something interesting happens and then tp'ing in to go after targets of opportunity is hilarious to me.
I doubt the monoliths would work well though, since I cant gate in units that turn if I remember correctly... They'll probably get blasted down after arriving and i'll either need to spend 1 or 2 CP to get the 2 units out or their points are wasted.
Admittedly the idea of Necron acting as commandos and completely trying to stay on the sidelines as much as possible until something interesting happens and then tp'ing in to go after targets of opportunity is hilarious to me.
I doubt the monoliths would work well though, since I cant gate in units that turn if I remember correctly... They'll probably get blasted down after arriving and i'll either need to spend 1 or 2 CP to get the 2 units out or their points are wasted.
I was thinking not to use the Tombworld, but rather teleporting them from on the battlefield, just hold them back, surely hell be going after the killy stuff of those other armies before trying to wipe necron units. And killing the Monoliths doesnt come with the extra topping of slaying something expensive on the tomb world.
Turn 2 or 3 he is likely trying to maximize efforts against the most dangerous enemies, daemon princes drawing near etc. then boom, 40 shots S4 AP-2 with MWBD hitting on 2+, and 10 Lychguard with warscythes running around just wrecking face.
Monoliths eternity gate only works on tomb world units though doesn't it? Even if it doesn't I have to wait till the turn after the monoliths come down to gate anything over cause they descend at the end of movement but gate stuff at the start of movement~ correct?
Ahh dimensional Corridor, ok. Missed that the first couple times, my attention was probably drawn to the ones with invasion beam in the name and assuming there weren't others.
At what point/'s in the phase can that be used and how many times?
Ahh dimensional Corridor, ok. Missed that the first couple times, my attention was probably drawn to the ones with invasion beam in the name and assuming there weren't others.
At what point/'s in the phase can that be used and how many times?
At the start of your movement phase. The teleported unit counts as disembarked.
Ahh so same problem I felt was there before then with the mono's likely being destroyed before they can be used might be there. Though that's mostly my paranoia of 'yeah thats dangerous but I can cause a 1-2k force from being completely ineffectual if I destroy those instead~'. But at least I only need one to survive to pull it off.
Though I suppose I can hold two units off the board as well and invasion beam them in on their turn to draw more fire etc just in case. Plus if one does survive it'll only take me 1cp instead of 2 to get them both out.
Looks like this strat will eat up any/all of my CP for the game dependent on how extensively I do it...
Lothmar wrote: Ahh so same problem I felt was there before then with the mono's likely being destroyed before they can be used might be there. Though that's mostly my paranoia of 'yeah thats dangerous but I can cause a 1-2k force from being completely ineffectual if I destroy those instead~'. But at least I only need one to survive to pull it off.
Though I suppose I can hold two units off the board as well and invasion beam them in on their turn to draw more fire etc just in case. Plus if one does survive it'll only take me 1cp instead of 2 to get them both out.
Looks like this strat will eat up any/all of my CP for the game dependent on how extensively I do it...
If you tombworld a unit, you're encouraging him to take it out more. If you teleport the monolith in turn 2, other parts of your combined army are likely posing bigger threats than your underwhelming monolith and your warriors barely out of your deployment zone, that will reanimate any way. Or your slow foot slogging lychguard
Lothmar wrote: Ok as if Rp'ing I've gone dormant for a few months from the hobby but I feel I should make an appearance. A friend of mine and shop owner is having a Birthday event where it's him vs all comers so like 10k vs 5x 2k armies etc where the number is at least equal to what he's running but can be more if a lot of people show up and we all get the minimum point lists.
And as if to add extra spice to the deadline my computers down at home with my only copy of the codex as well as all my pregen lists and various notes on how things interacted in my own words so I could re-acclimate myself promptly.
Anywho I need help coming up with a list to aid our unholy alliance against some Imperial soup.
I only have intel that one player will probably be running demons and will be playing Red Boi and maybe Cat on a keyboard, the rest of the composition is unknown.
Another one or two will probably be doing Tau, most likely they'll combine points and work together with one running infantry and the other armor/railguns.
Maybe one imperial guard player, likely running knights squad (guy i went in on our box set with) too but that's all the players I know well enough to guess..
-------------
Part of me says sit back and see how long I can last by doing something basic like Artillery support with a pylon and a couple of doomsday arks and maybe some repair units. But I have vague recollection that our artillery is kind of 'meh' in the sense its a coin flip on if it works and then we see if enemy ignores it for whatever reason.
Another part of me says 'if you are going super heavy anyway go in your face' and run 1 or 2 Tessearct ark, (maybe 1 pylon with tp if I have the points) and deceiver and just deploy into max saturation for power effects to bukakke his army and leave it to everyone else to clean up. Though I'd never used TA even before so with my brain on reset mode this could get pretty difficult pretty fast.
Even if I felt like being the 'vanguard' (since meat shield isn't fitting for crons) for advancing forces I know I dont want to run over 100 infantry if only because of space concerns that and the time it'd take to move all of that.
Thoughts?
Tesseract Vaults are easy and fun to play. Necrons are more of a problem army than a solution army. Does your opponent have the firepower to take out an entire unit at a time? Or in this case does your opponent watch out for the 9" bubble smite. It should be really damn easy for your opponent to screen you out with Scouts if you're playing on less than three tables, even on four a screen of scouts stretching across the battlefield will make a Vault/Deceiver list relatively ineffective. I'd bring a Pylon definitely, you're sure to see some titanic action in a game this big. Taking a low-model count army is probably a good idea for time management purposes, you're probably not going to see the third turn anyway, but at least people won't be pointing at you when the game ends before it has begun. I would limit the amount of glasscannons I'd take in such a big battle, things like Destroyers don't have a chance at surviving in this sort of environment, so if I took those it would be as Nephrekh with DS. Depending on whether or not you each get +3 CP for battleforged I'd take a Sautekh WL.
I don't think our artillery is meh by any stretch, it's much better than silver tide definitely, which I would rank as the worst possible army you could bring to such a game. Nihilakh Spearhead Detachment 1 DDA, 2x1 Spyder with Fabricator Claw Array, 3 Scarabs, Cloaktek, Nihilakh Superheavy Detachment Pylon, 2 Tesseract Vaults would be my bet for the best army you could bring. It depends on what other allies you might get though, a melee strategy becomes much more appealing when your C'tan can hide behind a wave of Orks, they make much better meat shields than Praetorians do. In that case running a single Tesseract Ark with 5 shards would probably be good list as well.
Lothmar wrote: Ok as if Rp'ing I've gone dormant for a few months from the hobby but I feel I should make an appearance. A friend of mine and shop owner is having a Birthday event where it's him vs all comers so like 10k vs 5x 2k armies etc where the number is at least equal to what he's running but can be more if a lot of people show up and we all get the minimum point lists.
And as if to add extra spice to the deadline my computers down at home with my only copy of the codex as well as all my pregen lists and various notes on how things interacted in my own words so I could re-acclimate myself promptly.
Anywho I need help coming up with a list to aid our unholy alliance against some Imperial soup.
I only have intel that one player will probably be running demons and will be playing Red Boi and maybe Cat on a keyboard, the rest of the composition is unknown.
Another one or two will probably be doing Tau, most likely they'll combine points and work together with one running infantry and the other armor/railguns.
Maybe one imperial guard player, likely running knights squad (guy i went in on our box set with) too but that's all the players I know well enough to guess..
-------------
Part of me says sit back and see how long I can last by doing something basic like Artillery support with a pylon and a couple of doomsday arks and maybe some repair units. But I have vague recollection that our artillery is kind of 'meh' in the sense its a coin flip on if it works and then we see if enemy ignores it for whatever reason.
Another part of me says 'if you are going super heavy anyway go in your face' and run 1 or 2 Tessearct ark, (maybe 1 pylon with tp if I have the points) and deceiver and just deploy into max saturation for power effects to bukakke his army and leave it to everyone else to clean up. Though I'd never used TA even before so with my brain on reset mode this could get pretty difficult pretty fast.
Even if I felt like being the 'vanguard' (since meat shield isn't fitting for crons) for advancing forces I know I dont want to run over 100 infantry if only because of space concerns that and the time it'd take to move all of that.
Thoughts?
Tesseract Arks are easy and fun to play. Necrons are more of a problem army than a solution army. Does your opponent have the firepower to take out an entire unit at a time? Or in this case does your opponent watch out for the 9" bubble smite. It should be really damn easy for your opponent to screen you out with Scouts if you're playing on less than three tables, even on four a screen of scouts stretching across the battlefield will make a Vault/Deceiver list relatively ineffective. I'd bring a Pylon definitely, you're sure to see some titanic action in a game this big. Taking a low-model count army is probably a good idea for time management purposes, you're probably not going to see the third turn anyway, but at least people won't be pointing at you when the game ends before it has begun. I would limit the amount of glasscannons I'd take in such a big battle, things like Destroyers don't have a chance at surviving in this sort of environment, so if I took those it would be as Nephrekh with DS. Depending on whether or not you each get +3 CP for battleforged I'd take a Sautekh WL.
I don't think our artillery is meh by any stretch, it's much better than silver tide definitely, which I would rank as the worst possible army you could bring to such a game. Nihilakh Spearhead Detachment 1 DDA, 2x1 Spyder with Fabricator Claw Array, 3 Scarabs, Cloaktek, Nihilakh Superheavy Detachment Pylon, 2 Tesseract Arks would be my bet for the best army you could bring. It depends on what other allies you might get though, a melee strategy becomes much more appealing when your C'tan can hide behind a wave of Orks, they make much better meat shields than Praetorians do. In that case running a single Tesseract Ark with 5 shards would probably be good list as well.
I’m assuming you mean Tesseract Vault, as the Ark is now rather subpar.
Lothmar wrote: Ahh so same problem I felt was there before then with the mono's likely being destroyed before they can be used might be there. Though that's mostly my paranoia of 'yeah thats dangerous but I can cause a 1-2k force from being completely ineffectual if I destroy those instead~'. But at least I only need one to survive to pull it off.
Though I suppose I can hold two units off the board as well and invasion beam them in on their turn to draw more fire etc just in case. Plus if one does survive it'll only take me 1cp instead of 2 to get them both out.
Looks like this strat will eat up any/all of my CP for the game dependent on how extensively I do it...
Using Tomb World deployment always seems way too risky for me to even try it, it makes the monolith such an obvious target.
Two monoliths deepstriking on turn 2 would give you a good chance of having one left on turn 3, and you can use the Emergency Invasion Beam strat to bring one unit in if they are both destroyed. 2 Monoliths is very expensive though, and you wouldn't be bringing anything through them till turn 3.
Using the Deceiver to advance Deploy a Monolith, and then using the Dimensional Corridor strat on a unit already on the board lets you have something teleport in on turn 1. You also have a 50/50 chance of going first meaning your opponent can't do anything about it. 50/50 is still very risky though.
The best way to guarantee you can teleport a unit in someones face is to take a character with the Veil of Darkness Relic. If you want to teleport a CC unit, and guarantee a charge, you need a character with the Veil to teleport Zandrekh, then have Obyron teleport the CC unit in front of them (3" from the target). This is obviously a very expensive trick as it uses up 3 HQs. To prevent it from being horribly inefficient you need to make more use of those HQs. I did this quite well recently by taking a "normal" list of Immortals, Destroyers, and Doomsday Arks, supported by buffs from a Cryptek with Veil, Zandrekh, and Obyron. I had a full unit of Lychguard stood behind the Immortals and, when the time was right, teleported them into combat with the 3 HQs. So the characters were doing standard buffing work first to get more out of them.
An alternative strategy might be to use these 3 characters to teleport a big Lychguard into combat turn 1, then deepstrike a unit of 20 Flayed ones in nearby on turn 2. Obyron can then run to the flayed ones and teleport them to Zandrekh to avoid having to charge 9". So the play would be:
Deployment:
Veil Tek, Zandrekh, Obyron, 10 Scytheguard all deploy together hiding in a corner. 20 Flayed one are kept in deepstrike reserve.
Turn1:
Zandrekh puts MWBD and a random buff on the Lychguard. Veil-Tek teleports himself and Zandrekh 9" from the enemy. Obyron teleports himself and the Scytheguard 6" in front of Zan (3" form charge target) Lychguard charge.
Turn 2:
20 Flayed ones Deepstrike as close as possible to Obyron. Obyron advances towards Flayed ones (5"+D6" +6" range on the Ghostwalk mantle so 14.5" average, makes this fairly easy) Zandrekh advances towards another charge target. Obyron teleports himself and the Flayed ones 6" ahead of Zan for another short charge.
This seems like a good way to get extra use out of the teleporting trio past the first turn trick. They shove 2 units into combat, have plenty of crons to buff for the rest of the game, and can potentially keep pulling the FO/Lguard out of combat and sending them back in. Using Lychguard with shields increases the chances of the characters still being around to help the Flayed Ones on turn 2 (especially with the +1 invul Sv. strat) but reduces the power of the first turn gut punch.
Edit: The turn 2 description is slightly out of sequence as the Flayed ones don't deepstrike until after Zan and Oby have made their moves, but you get the idea.
He's playing as one out of 5 2k armies against a birthday kid's 10k army.
Coming in turn 2-3 means most big things have hot themselves to pieces, and are likely more focused on finishing the last few wounds on big things than taking on new, relatively harmless, Monoliths.
A few warriors or flayed ones lurking deep in their own deployment zone won't be perceived as a big threat either, its the perfect deception!
Dynas wrote: Played a game this weekend. Correct me if I am wrong, but the changes to the FLY keyword and how it doesn't work in charges does NOT impact our Wraiths. Is this correct?
Sadly Wraiths received the same treatment (see necron FAQ) as the harlequins.
Per FAQ
"During the Movement phase, models in this unit can move
across models and terrain as if they were not there.
Models in this unit can shoot and charge even if they
Fell Back this turn."
So can they still charge over models in the fight phase or no?
Dynas wrote: Played a game this weekend. Correct me if I am wrong, but the changes to the FLY keyword and how it doesn't work in charges does NOT impact our Wraiths. Is this correct?
Sadly Wraiths received the same treatment (see necron FAQ) as the harlequins.
Per FAQ
"During the Movement phase, models in this unit can move
across models and terrain as if they were not there.
Models in this unit can shoot and charge even if they
Fell Back this turn."
So can they still charge over models in the fight phase or no?
No, because it specifies in the Movement phase. The Fight phase is not the Movement phase.
So I've been making a new list and it occurred to me that perhaps the Destroyer Lord isn't getting enough credit. Yes, his buff isn't great, but its evident that he's intended to be a beat stick type character, and if you use him to baby sit destroyers you are using him wrong. It would seem that the reroll to wound buff in the shooting phase is to soften up a target so the D Lord and friends can charge it. It makes no sense to grade him according to his buff when that's not his intended role.
If you look at a D Lord's stat line, its actually better than the Overlord's. Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd. He has higher toughness, higher wounds, higher movement and an extra attack. He's cheaper than a CCB, which has 1 less attack, the same toughness and no invul.
He's the only HQ who can take a phylactery, which increases his resilience a bit and allows him to take a Nanoscarab casket, which starts off as a 4+, but if you burn 2 CP you can increase it to nearly 90% (Res strat + reroll strat) If you take the nightmare shroud, you can instead have a model with a 2+/3++ save that regens D3 wounds a turn. That's pretty tanky.
If you give him Eternal Madness + Novokh trait + Blood Scythe, you can have a character with 5-7 warscythe attacks that rerolls all hits and wounds on the charge, and in subsequent fight phases can reroll 1s to hit to keep up the pressure. If you swap out the Blood Scythe for a Voidreaper you have less attacks, but you now wound on 2+ against non-vehicles. It really depends on what you're fighting; if you expecting to go up against light infantry to medium infantry and vehicles, the blood scythe is good, as the extra attacks would be useful at thinning the hoard and the 3 damage from the reaper would be wasted on infantry with 1-2 wounds. If you are expecting to go up against monsters, heavy vehicles and infantry with at least 3 wounds, the voidreaper is better.
Yes, he can't take a void scythe (which is dumb), but if you are taking a relic scythe you wouldn't be getting that anyway.
Yes, it does suck that Destroyers can't take good melee weapons so you can't have a nice Destroyer murder squad, but his buff only works in the shooting phase anyway, and Destroyers aren't that terrible in CC, especially if you take the destroyer lord with them to deal with harder targets.
This is all theory crafting and I'll have to run some games first, but I do think the D Lord should be given a bit more consideration in list building.
Speaking of HQs, I'm really liking the Canoptek Cloak cryptek more than the Chronotek. The 5++ invul buff is only really worth it if you are baby sitting a warrior blob due to its short range, and that extra mobility allows the cryptek to get in position to heal vehicles or buff RP. If RP could be taken at the end of the turn instead at the beginning, that would make it so much better.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So I've been making a new list and it occurred to me that perhaps the Destroyer Lord isn't getting enough credit. Yes, his buff isn't great, but its evident that he's intended to be a beat stick type character, and if you use him to baby sit destroyers you are using him wrong.
It would seem that the reroll to wound buff in the shooting phase is to soften up a target so the D Lord and friends can charge it.
It makes no sense to grade him according to his buff when that's not his intended role.
If you look at a D Lord's stat line, its actually better than the Overlord's. Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd. He has higher toughness, higher wounds, higher movement and an extra attack. He's cheaper than a CCB, which has 1 less attack, the same toughness and no invul.
He's the only HQ who can take a phylactery, which increases his resilience a bit and allows him to take a Nanoscarab casket, which starts off as a 4+, but if you burn 2 CP you can increase it to nearly 90% (Res strat + reroll strat)
If you take the nightmare shroud, you can instead have a model with a 2+/3++ save that regens D3 wounds a turn. That's pretty tanky.
If you give him Eternal Madness + Novokh trait + Blood Scythe, you can have a character with 5-7 warscythe attacks that rerolls all hits and wounds on the charge, and in subsequent fight phases can reroll 1s to hit to keep up the pressure.
If you swap out the Blood Scythe for a Voidreaper you have less attacks, but you now wound on 2+ against non-vehicles.
It really depends on what you're fighting; if you expecting to go up against light infantry to medium infantry and vehicles, the blood scythe is good, as the extra attacks would be useful at thinning the hoard and the 3 damage from the reaper would be wasted on infantry with 1-2 wounds.
If you are expecting to go up against monsters, heavy vehicles and infantry with at least 3 wounds, the voidreaper is better.
Yes, he can't take a void scythe (which is dumb), but if you are taking a relic scythe you wouldn't be getting that anyway.
Yes, it does suck that Destroyers can't take good melee weapons so you can't have a nice Destroyer murder squad, but his buff only works in the shooting phase anyway, and Destroyers aren't that terrible in CC, especially if you take the destroyer lord with them to deal with harder targets.
This is all theory crafting and I'll have to run some games first, but I do think the D Lord should be given a bit more consideration in list building.
It's fine and all, bit I tend not to leave home without an MWBD source and he's competing with that spot.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So I've been making a new list and it occurred to me that perhaps the Destroyer Lord isn't getting enough credit. Yes, his buff isn't great, but its evident that he's intended to be a beat stick type character, and if you use him to baby sit destroyers you are using him wrong.
It would seem that the reroll to wound buff in the shooting phase is to soften up a target so the D Lord and friends can charge it.
It makes no sense to grade him according to his buff when that's not his intended role.
If you look at a D Lord's stat line, its actually better than the Overlord's. Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd. He has higher toughness, higher wounds, higher movement and an extra attack. He's cheaper than a CCB, which has 1 less attack, the same toughness and no invul.
He's the only HQ who can take a phylactery, which increases his resilience a bit and allows him to take a Nanoscarab casket, which starts off as a 4+, but if you burn 2 CP you can increase it to nearly 90% (Res strat + reroll strat)
If you take the nightmare shroud, you can instead have a model with a 2+/3++ save that regens D3 wounds a turn. That's pretty tanky.
If you give him Eternal Madness + Novokh trait + Blood Scythe, you can have a character with 5-7 warscythe attacks that rerolls all hits and wounds on the charge, and in subsequent fight phases can reroll 1s to hit to keep up the pressure.
If you swap out the Blood Scythe for a Voidreaper you have less attacks, but you now wound on 2+ against non-vehicles.
It really depends on what you're fighting; if you expecting to go up against light infantry to medium infantry and vehicles, the blood scythe is good, as the extra attacks would be useful at thinning the hoard and the 3 damage from the reaper would be wasted on infantry with 1-2 wounds.
If you are expecting to go up against monsters, heavy vehicles and infantry with at least 3 wounds, the voidreaper is better.
Yes, he can't take a void scythe (which is dumb), but if you are taking a relic scythe you wouldn't be getting that anyway.
Yes, it does suck that Destroyers can't take good melee weapons so you can't have a nice Destroyer murder squad, but his buff only works in the shooting phase anyway, and Destroyers aren't that terrible in CC, especially if you take the destroyer lord with them to deal with harder targets.
This is all theory crafting and I'll have to run some games first, but I do think the D Lord should be given a bit more consideration in list building.
It's fine and all, bit I tend not to leave home without an MWBD source and he's competing with that spot.
Take both then. You do need 2 HQs for a battalion after all I don't actually use MWBD that often, as strange as it sounds.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So I've been making a new list and it occurred to me that perhaps the Destroyer Lord isn't getting enough credit. Yes, his buff isn't great, but its evident that he's intended to be a beat stick type character, and if you use him to baby sit destroyers you are using him wrong.
It would seem that the reroll to wound buff in the shooting phase is to soften up a target so the D Lord and friends can charge it.
It makes no sense to grade him according to his buff when that's not his intended role.
If you look at a D Lord's stat line, its actually better than the Overlord's. Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd. He has higher toughness, higher wounds, higher movement and an extra attack. He's cheaper than a CCB, which has 1 less attack, the same toughness and no invul.
He's the only HQ who can take a phylactery, which increases his resilience a bit and allows him to take a Nanoscarab casket, which starts off as a 4+, but if you burn 2 CP you can increase it to nearly 90% (Res strat + reroll strat)
If you take the nightmare shroud, you can instead have a model with a 2+/3++ save that regens D3 wounds a turn. That's pretty tanky.
If you give him Eternal Madness + Novokh trait + Blood Scythe, you can have a character with 5-7 warscythe attacks that rerolls all hits and wounds on the charge, and in subsequent fight phases can reroll 1s to hit to keep up the pressure.
If you swap out the Blood Scythe for a Voidreaper you have less attacks, but you now wound on 2+ against non-vehicles.
It really depends on what you're fighting; if you expecting to go up against light infantry to medium infantry and vehicles, the blood scythe is good, as the extra attacks would be useful at thinning the hoard and the 3 damage from the reaper would be wasted on infantry with 1-2 wounds.
If you are expecting to go up against monsters, heavy vehicles and infantry with at least 3 wounds, the voidreaper is better.
Yes, he can't take a void scythe (which is dumb), but if you are taking a relic scythe you wouldn't be getting that anyway.
Yes, it does suck that Destroyers can't take good melee weapons so you can't have a nice Destroyer murder squad, but his buff only works in the shooting phase anyway, and Destroyers aren't that terrible in CC, especially if you take the destroyer lord with them to deal with harder targets.
This is all theory crafting and I'll have to run some games first, but I do think the D Lord should be given a bit more consideration in list building.
It's fine and all, bit I tend not to leave home without an MWBD source and he's competing with that spot.
Take both then. You do need 2 HQs for a battalion after all I don't actually use MWBD that often, as strange as it sounds.
It's not strange. Tesla immortals are decent on their own.
The OL/CCB are versatile though. The DLord is a one-trick smaller horse-like being. A lone DLord does not a flank make. You'd likely want to accompany him with wraiths, perhaps a tomb blade wing, or something to make the enemy chose targets and something for him to redce the CC threat against. And now you're building around him, not with him. But yeah, when you have those components in your army, he certainly fits like a glove.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So I've been making a new list and it occurred to me that perhaps the Destroyer Lord isn't getting enough credit. Yes, his buff isn't great, but its evident that he's intended to be a beat stick type character, and if you use him to baby sit destroyers you are using him wrong.
It would seem that the reroll to wound buff in the shooting phase is to soften up a target so the D Lord and friends can charge it.
It makes no sense to grade him according to his buff when that's not his intended role.
If you look at a D Lord's stat line, its actually better than the Overlord's. Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd. He has higher toughness, higher wounds, higher movement and an extra attack. He's cheaper than a CCB, which has 1 less attack, the same toughness and no invul.
He's the only HQ who can take a phylactery, which increases his resilience a bit and allows him to take a Nanoscarab casket, which starts off as a 4+, but if you burn 2 CP you can increase it to nearly 90% (Res strat + reroll strat)
If you take the nightmare shroud, you can instead have a model with a 2+/3++ save that regens D3 wounds a turn. That's pretty tanky.
If you give him Eternal Madness + Novokh trait + Blood Scythe, you can have a character with 5-7 warscythe attacks that rerolls all hits and wounds on the charge, and in subsequent fight phases can reroll 1s to hit to keep up the pressure.
If you swap out the Blood Scythe for a Voidreaper you have less attacks, but you now wound on 2+ against non-vehicles.
It really depends on what you're fighting; if you expecting to go up against light infantry to medium infantry and vehicles, the blood scythe is good, as the extra attacks would be useful at thinning the hoard and the 3 damage from the reaper would be wasted on infantry with 1-2 wounds.
If you are expecting to go up against monsters, heavy vehicles and infantry with at least 3 wounds, the voidreaper is better.
Yes, he can't take a void scythe (which is dumb), but if you are taking a relic scythe you wouldn't be getting that anyway.
Yes, it does suck that Destroyers can't take good melee weapons so you can't have a nice Destroyer murder squad, but his buff only works in the shooting phase anyway, and Destroyers aren't that terrible in CC, especially if you take the destroyer lord with them to deal with harder targets.
This is all theory crafting and I'll have to run some games first, but I do think the D Lord should be given a bit more consideration in list building.
It's fine and all, bit I tend not to leave home without an MWBD source and he's competing with that spot.
Take both then. You do need 2 HQs for a battalion after all I don't actually use MWBD that often, as strange as it sounds.
It's not strange. Tesla immortals are decent on their own.
The OL/CCB are versatile though. The DLord is a one-trick smaller horse-like being. A lone DLord does not a flank make. You'd likely want to accompany him with wraiths, perhaps a tomb blade wing, or something to make the enemy chose targets and something for him to redce the CC threat against. And now you're building around him, not with him. But yeah, when you have those components in your army, he certainly fits like a glove.
My favorite list contains a Novokh Outrider detachment of just melee units, D-lord, Wraiths and Scarabs.
The D-Lord uses the Novokh trait (Awakened By Murder) + Crimson Haze + Blood Scythe.
His movement lets him stay around the Wraiths/Scarabs as they push forward and Awakened By Murder helps the Wraiths/Scarabs make their attacks connect more often along with the possible Bonus attacks from Crimson Haze (which are also re-rollable).
The rest of the army is usually either a Mephrit or Sautekh Battalion that is pure shooting with the Overlord/Cryptek.
I like to use the voidscythe with my dlord. With the entropic strike stratagem i can do 3 damage pretty safely, against anything that is not a vehicle, irrespective of toughness. Hitting on 3+, re-rolling 1, and wounding on 2. AP-4 means only units with a 2+ sv get a chance to avoid it. Nice against enemy characters.
My D Lord is my most used HQ. I'll even run 2, both with Phylactery, one with the Blood Scythe, one with Voidreaper, wrap the two in a wraith squad, then wrap the Wraiths in many huge Scarab squads, add in 6 Spyders on full advance to keep rebuilding the Scarabs. Run Novokh, send the whole death ball to tie up and kill things as the rest of my army (mostly Warriors and 6 Sentry Pylons, with cloaktek, running Sauketh) takes objectives, or gets into gauss range.
Blndmage wrote: My D Lord is my most used HQ. I'll even run 2, both with Phylactery, one with the Blood Scythe, one with Voidreaper, wrap the two in a wraith squad, then wrap the Wraiths in many huge Scarab squads, add in 6 Spyders on full advance to keep rebuilding the Scarabs. Run Novokh, send the whole death ball to tie up and kill things as the rest of my army (mostly Warriors and 6 Sentry Pylons, with cloaktek, running Sauketh) takes objectives, or gets into gauss range.
Blndmage wrote: My D Lord is my most used HQ. I'll even run 2, both with Phylactery, one with the Blood Scythe, one with Voidreaper, wrap the two in a wraith squad, then wrap the Wraiths in many huge Scarab squads, add in 6 Spyders on full advance to keep rebuilding the Scarabs. Run Novokh, send the whole death ball to tie up and kill things as the rest of my army (mostly Warriors and 6 Sentry Pylons, with cloaktek, running Sauketh) takes objectives, or gets into gauss range.
That's kinda hilarious, does it work well?
Honestly?
I lose more than I win, but it's the kind of army I've wanted since I started in 3rd, with the new detachments, I can finally run what I have the way I want instead of being boxed on. The Rule of 2/3/4 really messed up my Scarabs. I've got 5 full squads.
Running full sized Scarab swarms as Novokh, with the Novokh Warlord trait has made them amazing. Novokh was the only Dynasty I played for a while, I'm only now trying others, or multipule detachments with differing Dynasties. I'd rather run all one, so the whole list can support itself, evenrything can back everything. I also try to fill datchments as best I can before starting another.
I haven't gotten a single new unit. Even my Wraiths and Spyders are the metal ones. A predynastic army, still in service to the C'tan. I wish the old Spyders weren't so pricey. I'd love a full set of nine, or more!
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd.
You know, I agree with most of your post, but this in particular is extremely funny to me given that basically every other faction gives their melee monster HQ's 2+ WS and reroll 1's to hit. Being "pretty absurd" isn't stopping Daemon Princes from never missing with their 7 S7 (or 8 S9, with a psychic power) attacks.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd.
You know, I agree with most of your post, but this in particular is extremely funny to me given that basically every other faction gives their melee monster HQ's 2+ WS and reroll 1's to hit. Being "pretty absurd" isn't stopping Daemon Princes from never missing with their 7 S7 (or 8 S9, with a psychic power) attacks.
well they'd bump him in price then. can't he fit his niche if they just keep fixing the game?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd.
You know, I agree with most of your post, but this in particular is extremely funny to me given that basically every other faction gives their melee monster HQ's 2+ WS and reroll 1's to hit. Being "pretty absurd" isn't stopping Daemon Princes from never missing with their 7 S7 (or 8 S9, with a psychic power) attacks.
I was literally about to post this verbatim. How many armies can claim to have a melee HQ that doesn't hit on a 2+?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd.
You know, I agree with most of your post, but this in particular is extremely funny to me given that basically every other faction gives their melee monster HQ's 2+ WS and reroll 1's to hit. Being "pretty absurd" isn't stopping Daemon Princes from never missing with their 7 S7 (or 8 S9, with a psychic power) attacks.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd.
You know, I agree with most of your post, but this in particular is extremely funny to me given that basically every other faction gives their melee monster HQ's 2+ WS and reroll 1's to hit. Being "pretty absurd" isn't stopping Daemon Princes from never missing with their 7 S7 (or 8 S9, with a psychic power) attacks.
...Oh yeah, that's true. Wtf, GW.
But nearly all of these HQs are more expensive, right? Not saying we couldn't use a better and more expensive CCHQ, but that's the lay of the land, right?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd.
You know, I agree with most of your post, but this in particular is extremely funny to me given that basically every other faction gives their melee monster HQ's 2+ WS and reroll 1's to hit. Being "pretty absurd" isn't stopping Daemon Princes from never missing with their 7 S7 (or 8 S9, with a psychic power) attacks.
...Oh yeah, that's true. Wtf, GW.
But nearly all of these HQs are more expensive, right? Not saying we couldn't use a better and more expensive CCHQ, but that's the lay of the land, right?
That depends, don't Space Marine characters hit on 2+s with rerolls? How much are they? Then again, they aren't as fast, but still.
The aforementioned claws Daemon Prince is 156 points, so for 25 points over Ghetto Celestine you're getting two psychic powers. That's kind of the general principle; yes most factions' smashy characters are more expensive than ours, but they also have a lot more utility and capability outside of melee combat. Only the Destroyer Lord is so narrowly focused.
That depends, don't Space Marine characters hit on 2+s with rerolls? How much are they?
Then again, they aren't as fast, but still.
A standard SM smash captain is 129 for a jump pack, stormshield, thunderhammer, 4x s8 -3 3d attacks hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s. (ws2+ with -1 to hit mod)
Vs 131 for a desty lord with a warscythe, phylactery and your choice of either, blood scythe or nanoscarab casket.
That depends, don't Space Marine characters hit on 2+s with rerolls? How much are they?
Then again, they aren't as fast, but still.
A standard SM smash captain is 129 for a jump pack, stormshield, thunderhammer, 4x s8 -3 3d attacks hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s. (ws2+ with -1 to hit mod)
Vs 131 for a desty lord with a warscythe, phylactery and your choice of either, blood scythe or nanoscarab casket.
He can also take a voidreaper. Voidreaper can replace warscythes, you don't have to take void scythes.
Ok, so the D lord is a little more expensive, but he still has a couple of extra points of toughness and regen, right?
That depends, don't Space Marine characters hit on 2+s with rerolls? How much are they?
Then again, they aren't as fast, but still.
A standard SM smash captain is 129 for a jump pack, stormshield, thunderhammer, 4x s8 -3 3d attacks hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s. (ws2+ with -1 to hit mod)
Vs 131 for a desty lord with a warscythe, phylactery and your choice of either, blood scythe or nanoscarab casket.
He can also take a voidreaper. Voidreaper can replace warscythes, you don't have to take void scythes.
Ok, so the D lord is a little more expensive, but he still has a couple of extra points of toughness and regen, right?
Also keep in mind, with his special phylactery he regens both opponent's and your turn. That'w 4W per turn.
That depends, don't Space Marine characters hit on 2+s with rerolls? How much are they?
Then again, they aren't as fast, but still.
A standard SM smash captain is 129 for a jump pack, stormshield, thunderhammer, 4x s8 -3 3d attacks hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s. (ws2+ with -1 to hit mod)
Vs 131 for a desty lord with a warscythe, phylactery and your choice of either, blood scythe or nanoscarab casket.
He can also take a voidreaper. Voidreaper can replace warscythes, you don't have to take void scythes.
Ok, so the D lord is a little more expensive, but he still has a couple of extra points of toughness and regen, right?
The main difference I see is that; SM Smash captain has the same WS as a standard Warscythe Destroyer Lord, SM gets a free DS from the jump pack for safety and 3++.
Dlord w/ nano Heals d3 wounds 2 times a battle round, comes back to life with D6 wounds, better Toughness and can take Dynasties to get more buffed.
If we discuss stratgems we can bring the Dlord back twice, +1 S (wounds captain on 2s now) and ignore invul on 1st attack.
That depends, don't Space Marine characters hit on 2+s with rerolls? How much are they? Then again, they aren't as fast, but still.
A standard SM smash captain is 129 for a jump pack, stormshield, thunderhammer, 4x s8 -3 3d attacks hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s. (ws2+ with -1 to hit mod)
Vs 131 for a desty lord with a warscythe, phylactery and your choice of either, blood scythe or nanoscarab casket.
He can also take a voidreaper. Voidreaper can replace warscythes, you don't have to take void scythes. Ok, so the D lord is a little more expensive, but he still has a couple of extra points of toughness and regen, right?
Also keep in mind, with his special phylactery he regens both opponent's and your turn. That'w 4W per turn.
Oh wow, I missed that Nanoscarab effect. That's really good for tanking.
You only get to regenerate if the dlord isnt slain. And when he is slain he only gets up on 4+. And you cant have both voidscythe and nanoscarab casket. The dlord can be repaired by a cloaktek.
p5freak wrote: You only get to regenerate if the dlord isnt slain. And when he is slain he only gets up on 4+. And you cant have both voidscythe and nanoscarab casket. The dlord can be repaired by a cloaktek.
That's true. But the Cloaktek has to get in position first. It would be so much better if RP and Living Metal was at the end of the movement phase, so you could get your buff givers in position first.
Right now I'm finding it a bit difficult to make use of the technomancer and repair abilities, as I have to get in position after doing my rolls, which gives my opponent a chance to finish off whatever he was shooting at in his turn.
Drider wrote: How does the cloaktek and nanoscarab interact? Do they stack or is it one or the other?
Good question. Some could argue that his 1 from living metal turns into a D3 from either one, thus the other cant be used because it requires the 1 from living metal.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Ah shoot, you're right. It says Save Characteristic, which would be what it says in the profile.
Which makes this warlord trait pretty much useless. Other factions have traits that improve their inv by 1.
Drider wrote: How does the cloaktek and nanoscarab interact? Do they stack or is it one or the other?
As pointed out, there's no room for the Canoptek Cloak and Nanoscarab Casket to stack since both explicitly change an existing value of 1 to D3. Once the NanoCasket has changed it, a nearby Cloaktek adds nothing since there's no 1 value there to alter.
p5freak wrote: Because necrons would be to powerful if they had a character with a 3+ inv
Theres probably truth in that...Just like with the „beat stick“ character DLord NOT hitting on 2s rerolling 1s but 3srerolling ones...
The only possible explanation Id have to why we see all of this is...During the design process they probably DID allowed them a 3+ inv and the DLord hitting on 2s BUT somehow gak their pants thinking about the backlash theyll get by all the „OMGZLOLZ NECRONS OP“ people...plus some bias...plus some „hate“...plus Chemical X...all this mixed together
That would be MY explanation...I cannot think of anything else...
ImPhaeronWeasel wrote: Well...is there a reason for why it only improves the normal save and not the inv. save other than „F*** YOU THATS WHY!“ ??
Because it's already an amazing relic?
Keep in mind that the smash captain can get a relic for 1 CP as well, can't just give your guy a free CP and then act like you're making a fair comparison, if you're spending CP every time the Captain takes a wound then he also becomes far more durable, re-rolling a 3+ is better than re-rolling a 4+, so yes we have a Strat that allows him to revive, SM have a Strat that allows him to survive. Both the Cloak and Phylactery replaces Living Metal so they don't stack. D-Lord isn't good, he's the best choice in a vacume, but his lack of supporting abilities means that he IMO is only the best choice in something like a small Novokh or Nephrekh Detachment, even then if you're taking a unit of 6 Wraiths the ability to get them back on a 4+ and the pts saved on taking a Cloaktek makes the D-Lord not even that amazing in that situation. The only situation in which he is actually amazing is when he gets to make full use of his support ability, while also rolling up the board and getting into melee. The D-Lord is tough, but why does your character need to be tough, isn't the character keyword meant to protect you? You're getting a bullet sponge that hides behind a bullet sponge, I'd rather take a Nightbringer if my HQ slot has already been filled.
I won an Eternal War game against Tau with my triple C'tan list, bombed the gak out of him with double Cosmic Fire by using Cosmic Power T1 with an infiltrating Deceiver and Nightbringer, he didn't screen properly and lost his Warlord to the mortal wound barrage, among other scattered damage. In the end, he had two Riptides, 8 shield drones and a markerlight guy, I had a Cloaktek and 1 CP to resurrect him for T7 (game ended T6 and I won through VP). I forgot to use my Transcendent C'tans two powers two turns in a row, I also forgot to shoot with my Nightbringer T1 and with my Cloaktek T4. I used Cosmic Powers twice this game, I've been way underestimating its power, Cosmic Fire is just insane against some lists and is easily worth the 1 CP if you don't have any other good powers. Rolling for the Transcendent C'tan is fun so I don't think I'll ever switch to just picking, this game I got 3++ and double power usage which was pretty neat. Ignore cover aura and re-roll failed wounds in the Fight phase just seem so much weaker than double power usage, not to mention the chance of getting the same thing twice, it's probably better just to pick whatever works best against your opponent. I feel like I'm being quite hard on myself with no take-backs, I was fairly sure I had just lost myself with the second time I forgot to use my powers, but between dominating the board and taking objectives all game and playing kill pts against Tau I managed to pull out a victory. Trying to reanimate 5 Wraiths twice resulted in an amazing 1 Wraith recovery, not worth the 4 CP this game, should have kept my Cryptek in range, still, 1.
Nah, the biggest problem our HQs have is the inability to access a 3++ save, and are really, really expensive without some kind of bubble buff utility.
Regardless how you see it, we've slid a long way from the tough as nails near unkillable characters we were in 7th, that others adviced against been trying to kill.
I think we all agree that necrons are just a very low tier arm...If tailored right maybe ok but thats it...i shelved my necrons in 40k AND KT.
I really dont mind having a „bad“ lower mid tier army...but its just that we literally have NO variety in list building if we want to compete even agains semi competitive lists. Destroyers are mandatory!!!! If not so are DDAs...dont try to build a lukst without them for 2k or 1.75k.
I actually did a „port crons“ list and used kuthlak to advance and charge...i had 4units plus the characters in a 2k match!!!! Are we Imperial Knights or something?
Its just ridiculous and Im getting angry just thinking about it...At least if wed have access to allies to build some fun admech/crons list but no....we have no variety PLUS we are gak whatever we take.
I wont sugar coat it...GW has to do something...so many players are selling their armies on ebay...I see less and less crons in events
Outside of maybe TVault spam for fluffy games Necrons are a DEAD faction ( no pun here)
Yeah, I find list building to be pretty difficult. We don't really have any options. Everything is just so damned expensive, and aren't really cost effective compared to other factions. Its as if GW is charging us a premium for resilience, when that should really be less than offense.
Don’t know if it got fixed or not since I cant reference the actual codex atm. Does Stormlord have the ability to MWBD either 2 Sautekhs or 1 unit of any other dynasty/non dynasty since it lists 'friendly'?
Kind of like independent non dynasty OL's like the traveler?
Ie - if you play co-op with another necron player running a different dynasty you could boost one of their infantry in range if you had extra uses laying around?
Lothmar wrote: Don’t know if it got fixed or not since I cant reference the actual codex atm. Does Stormlord have the ability to MWBD either 2 Sautekhs or 1 unit of any other dynasty/non dynasty since it lists 'friendly'?
Kind of like independent non dynasty OL's like the traveler?
Ie - if you play co-op with another necron player running a different dynasty you could boost one of their infantry in range if you had extra uses laying around?
Technically, there are 2 rules in play here.
1 is MWBD - Which says NECRON Infanry unit within 6 inches.
The second is
Phaeron of the Sautehk Dynasty - Which says "Immotekh can use his my will be done ability twice a turn, but only if you choose friendly SAUTEKH INFANTRY units to to be affected by it both times."
So yes, he gets 1 that can effect anyone. If he wants to use it twice, both units MUST be Sautehk.
Lothmar wrote: Don’t know if it got fixed or not since I cant reference the actual codex atm. Does Stormlord have the ability to MWBD either 2 Sautekhs or 1 unit of any other dynasty/non dynasty since it lists 'friendly'?
Kind of like independent non dynasty OL's like the traveler?
Ie - if you play co-op with another necron player running a different dynasty you could boost one of their infantry in range if you had extra uses laying around?
Technically, there are 2 rules in play here.
1 is MWBD - Which says NECRON Infanry unit within 6 inches.
The second is
Phaeron of the Sautehk Dynasty - Which says "Immotekh can use his my will be done ability twice a turn, but only if you choose friendly SAUTEKH INFANTRY units to to be affected by it both times."
So yes, he gets 1 that can effect anyone. If he wants to use it twice, both units MUST be Sautehk.
Oh so he can command praetorians then, as well he should, fluffwise.
Also he wants to be within 18" with his powefull staff. And praetorians want to be within 12" with their shooting, regardless of loudout. With a 6" MWBD it's not a horrible matchup. Well it's horrible for all the other usual reasons of course.
Hello folks. Here is the platinum question of the /thread.
Can Sauteks destroyers advance and shoot without penalty?
There is quote dubios idea that Yes, they can. And here some logic for support that.
Generally when GW whats to tell us that some weapons changes its profile, they do use "becomes" ,like in the Deathwatch special munition rules "e.g. Ap 0 weapon becomes(!) AP-2"
But in Sauteks Dynasty Code we may see "treat weapon as assault"
Which leads to an idea, that weapons profile itself wouldnt changes.
So we have a HEAVY barrle wich is not penaltised for moving due to Repulsor Platform rule, but we may shoot with it after advance.
If you can advance and shoot, its an assault weapon, not a heavy weapon.
You can only advance and shoot with assault weapons, ergo Repulsor platform would not work as it explicitly specifies heavy weapons. A weapon cannot be heavy and assault at the same time. You can pick one.
Repulsor platform also specifies that if the destroyer moves it doesn't suffer hit penalties. And advance is not the same as a move, its its own thing.
If Repulsor platform said "this unit does not suffer hit penalties from moving or advancing" then you'd have a point.
If you can advance and shoot, its an assault weapon, not a heavy weapon.
You can only advance and shoot with assault weapons, ergo Repulsor platform would not work as it explicitly specifies heavy weapons.
A weapon cannot be heavy and assault at the same time. You can pick one.
Repulsor platform also specifies that if the destroyer moves it doesn't suffer hit penalties. And advance is not the same as a move, its its own thing.
If Repulsor platform said "this unit does not suffer hit penalties from moving or advancing" then you'd have a point.
(bolded part) Is it though? By the book, all "Advancing" does is add to your Move characteristic. You still have to Move to actually, y'know, move.
Nevertheless, the first part of your argument still stands (can't be both Heavy and Assault)
If you can advance and shoot, its an assault weapon, not a heavy weapon.
You can only advance and shoot with assault weapons, ergo Repulsor platform would not work as it explicitly specifies heavy weapons. A weapon cannot be heavy and assault at the same time. You can pick one.
Repulsor platform also specifies that if the destroyer moves it doesn't suffer hit penalties. And advance is not the same as a move, its its own thing.
If Repulsor platform said "this unit does not suffer hit penalties from moving or advancing" then you'd have a point.
(bolded part) Is it though? By the book, all "Advancing" does is add to your Move characteristic. You still have to Move to actually, y'know, move.
Nevertheless, the first part of your argument still stands (can't be both Heavy and Assault)
If all it did was that, then you would still be able to shoot weapons other than assault. As it stops you from firing weapons other than assault, it ceases being a "move" in game terms and is now something else. I guess you could say that its a modified move, but it still isn't quite the same as an ordinary move.
So I've starting building necrons (knowing they are not competitive, but i don't play competitive) and I was wondering if the forgeworld pylon kit can build all of them or are they all separate kits?
momerathe wrote: Sorry, not "all it does". The fact remains though, that it modifies your move characteristic. Nowhere does it say you move OR advance.
Fair enough, but there are still weapon restrictions put into place if you advance.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
torblind wrote: Treating a weapon as an Assault weapon surely means you get -1 to hit if you advance, as you would with an assault weapon.
if you advance your sautekh warriors, wouldn't you fire their rapid fire weapons with -1 to hit then?
Yep, that's how it works. You also can't double tap with them, as they are no longer rapid fire.
Didn't see it on the points cost area but figured cause it's FW.
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Also would grand illusion, TP matrix or similiar place on the board after game has started abilities count as 'movement' for purposes of Nihilakhs reroll to hits of 1 ability?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is timesplinter cloak an invul save, or is it a Feel no pain esque ability and if you also have invul then you have armor or invul (use better) and cloaks 5+?
momerathe wrote: Sorry, not "all it does". The fact remains though, that it modifies your move characteristic. Nowhere does it say you move OR advance.
Fair enough, but there are still weapon restrictions put into place if you advance.
Of course you can shoot sautekh destroyer guns after advancing with -1 to hit.
Sautekh dynasty code
If a unit with this code Advances, it treats all ranged weapons it is equipped with as Assault weapons until the end of the turn (e.g. a Rapid Fire 1 weapon is treated as an Assault 1 weapon, and a Heavy D6 weapon is treated as an Assault D6 weapon etc.).
The heavy 3 gauss cannon becomes an assault 3 gauss cannon.
Also would grand illusion, TP matrix or similiar place on the board after game has started abilities count as 'movement' for purposes of Nihilakhs reroll to hits of 1 ability?
Grand illusion is before the first turn. Thus, it doesnt count as movement. Teleportation matrix happens at the end of the movement phase, thus it counts as movement.
Is timesplinter cloak an invul save, or is it a Feel no pain esque ability and if you also have invul then you have armor or invul (use better) and cloaks 5+?
Timesplinter cloak is a FNP like ability. In 8th its just called ignore wound. If you have an inv you choose that first, and after that the timesplinter cloak for every wound.
momerathe wrote: Sorry, not "all it does". The fact remains though, that it modifies your move characteristic. Nowhere does it say you move OR advance.
Fair enough, but there are still weapon restrictions put into place if you advance.
Of course you can shoot sautekh destroyer guns after advancing with -1 to hit.
Sautekh dynasty code
If a unit with this code Advances, it treats all ranged weapons it is equipped with as Assault weapons until the end of the turn (e.g. a Rapid Fire 1 weapon is treated as an Assault 1 weapon, and a Heavy D6 weapon is treated as an Assault D6 weapon etc.).
The heavy 3 gauss cannon becomes an assault 3 gauss cannon.
Yes, that's an exception. You can't shoot it with no penalty though, which is what the original claim was.
Didn't see it on the points cost area but figured cause it's FW.
----
Also would grand illusion, TP matrix or similiar place on the board after game has started abilities count as 'movement' for purposes of Nihilakhs reroll to hits of 1 ability?
Is timesplinter cloak an invul save, or is it a Feel no pain esque ability and if you also have invul then you have armor or invul (use better) and cloaks 5+?
Gauss Pylon's cost was changed in CA 2017, you can find the cost on page 123.
Grand Illusion happens before the first turn and is not considered moving, Reinforcements count as moving the turn they arrive, it seems like you're due for another read-through of the main rulebook. You'll have to read it several times before it sticks, thankfully it's short this edition.
Does it say it's an invulnerable save? If it's not invulnerable it's FNP and it won't stack with the WL trait found in the core rules. Nihilakh is generally considered the weakest faction, Tesla Immortals, Pylons and DDAs are your best options. The littler Pylons aren't too too bad, they were considered for competetive Necron lists between the time the first CA hit and the Necron Codex, now it's just not as good as the DDA.
UncleJetMints wrote: So I've starting building necrons (knowing they are not competitive, but i don't play competitive) and I was wondering if the forgeworld pylon kit can build all of them or are they all separate kits?
Separate, it seems you can't even buy the heat version which is sadly the best version. Try and contact FW and see if they have it or if one of the other kits contain the bits needed. Alternatively you could buy a Triarch Stalker, give it twin heavy gauss because that's the best option, then use the heat weapon from the Stalker to convert one of the little Pylons to the heat variant.
Didn't see it on the points cost area but figured cause it's FW.
----
Also would grand illusion, TP matrix or similiar place on the board after game has started abilities count as 'movement' for purposes of Nihilakhs reroll to hits of 1 ability?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is timesplinter cloak an invul save, or is it a Feel no pain esque ability and if you also have invul then you have armor or invul (use better) and cloaks 5+?
It's not what you're asking, but its worth pointing out - the Gauss Pylon doesn't suffer -1 to hit because of moving, as the main gun isn't a heavy weapon, it's a macro weapon.
Didn't see it on the points cost area but figured cause it's FW.
----
Also would grand illusion, TP matrix or similiar place on the board after game has started abilities count as 'movement' for purposes of Nihilakhs reroll to hits of 1 ability?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is timesplinter cloak an invul save, or is it a Feel no pain esque ability and if you also have invul then you have armor or invul (use better) and cloaks 5+?
It's not what you're asking, but its worth pointing out - the Gauss Pylon doesn't suffer -1 to hit because of moving, as the main gun isn't a heavy weapon, it's a macro weapon.
Also because they are Immoble and can't move.
Only the smaller, Sentry Pylons can move, and only 3".
Ok here's some list ideas im throwing together in my head for the shop game I mentioned.
All participants get 2k in an unholy alliance vs the hosts force (think 10k imperial soup).
Demon player is going Tank with invul / fnp mob and maybe some demon lords like red boi etc to draw agro.
Imp Guard player is playing knights (small ones and medium one I think) and lots of armor/tanks so long range and advancing armor.
Havent confirmed what Tau's doing but possibly 1 or 2 of them.
Taking suggestion builds as well since I haven't played in months and dont have my codex atm cause my laptop is down.
Note- i'd prefer to have as little as possible to manage cause that's shorter turns and there's going to be lots of other models out there so taking up less space can be helpful.
2k list
Spoiler:
(Artillery guard, waiting to TP up and engage)
Nephrek Overlord (Hyperphase sword, Veil) - 87
Warriors 20x - 240
Zoomy zoomy shooty Harassment
Mephrit Catacomb command Barge - (Staff of lightning, Tesla Cannon, Rez orb, Light field )196
Mephrit Destroyer lord (Staff) - 120
Mephrit Destroyers (50x4)+57) 4x destroyer, 1 heavy destroyer ; 257
Mephrit Annihilation barge - 146
Mephrit Annihilation barge - 146
Mephrit Annihilation barge - 146
(following the advance of forces as a screen till in range)
Nightbringer - 210
Nephrek Scarabs - 3x 39
Nephrek Scarabs - 3x 39
(Hunting in hyperspace, waiting for a target of opportunity or an area of the battlefield that needs pushed in desperately)
Mephrit Deathmark 10x - 190
Mephrit Deathmark 10x - 190
(Backline Ally Artillery guard till they port up to lend fire support)
Mephrit Cryptek 80 (veil)
Mephrit Warriors 20x - 240
----
V3
Zoomy zoomy shooty Harassment
Mephrit Catacomb command Barge - (Staff of lightning, Tesla Cannon, Rez orb, Light field )196
Mephrit Destroyer lord (Staff) - 120
Mephrit Destroyers (50x4)+57) 4x destroyer, 1 heavy destroyer ; 257
(Hunting in hyperspace, waiting for a target of opportunity or an area of the battlefield that needs pushed in desperately)
Mephrit Deathmark 10x - 190
Mephrit Deathmark 10x - 190
(following the advance of forces as a screen till in range)
Transcendant Ctan - 225
Nightbringer - 210
Nephrek Scarabs - 3x 39
Nephrek Scarabs - 3x 39
Didn't see it on the points cost area but figured cause it's FW.
----
Also would grand illusion, TP matrix or similiar place on the board after game has started abilities count as 'movement' for purposes of Nihilakhs reroll to hits of 1 ability?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is timesplinter cloak an invul save, or is it a Feel no pain esque ability and if you also have invul then you have armor or invul (use better) and cloaks 5+?
It's not what you're asking, but its worth pointing out - the Gauss Pylon doesn't suffer -1 to hit because of moving, as the main gun isn't a heavy weapon, it's a macro weapon.
Also because they are Immoble and can't move.
Only the smaller, Sentry Pylons can move, and only 3".
I think he was referring to when a Sentry Pylon arrives from reinforcements it'll be hitting on 4+, while the Gauss Pylon hits on 3+ when arriving this way, neither benefits from Nihilakh when they arrive from reinforcements. It makes Sautekh a relatively much better option on Sentry Pylons compared to Gauss Pylons, also because they don't benefit as much from +1 to saving throws Strat.
Lothmar wrote: Ok here's some list ideas im throwing together in my head for the shop game I mentioned.
All participants get 2k in an unholy alliance vs the hosts force (think 10k imperial soup).
Demon player is going Tank with invul / fnp mob and maybe some demon lords like red boi etc to draw agro.
Imp Guard player is playing knights (small ones and medium one I think) and lots of armor/tanks so long range and advancing armor.
Havent confirmed what Tau's doing but possibly 1 or 2 of them.
Taking suggestion builds as well since I haven't played in months and dont have my codex atm cause my laptop is down.
Note- i'd prefer to have as little as possible to manage cause that's shorter turns and there's going to be lots of other models out there so taking up less space can be helpful.
2k list
Spoiler:
(Artillery guard, waiting to TP up and engage)
Nephrek Overlord (Hyperphase sword, Veil) - 87
Warriors 20x - 240
Zoomy zoomy shooty Harassment
Mephrit Catacomb command Barge - (Staff of lightning, Tesla Cannon, Rez orb, Light field )196
Mephrit Destroyer lord (Staff) - 120
Mephrit Destroyers (50x4)+57) 4x destroyer, 1 heavy destroyer ; 257
Mephrit Annihilation barge - 146
Mephrit Annihilation barge - 146
Mephrit Annihilation barge - 146
(following the advance of forces as a screen till in range)
Nightbringer - 210
Nephrek Scarabs - 3x 39
Nephrek Scarabs - 3x 39
(Hunting in hyperspace, waiting for a target of opportunity or an area of the battlefield that needs pushed in desperately)
Mephrit Deathmark 10x - 190
Mephrit Deathmark 10x - 190
(Backline Ally Artillery guard till they port up to lend fire support)
Mephrit Cryptek 80 (veil)
Mephrit Warriors 20x - 240
----
V3
Zoomy zoomy shooty Harassment
Mephrit Catacomb command Barge - (Staff of lightning, Tesla Cannon, Rez orb, Light field )196
Mephrit Destroyer lord (Staff) - 120
Mephrit Destroyers (50x4)+57) 4x destroyer, 1 heavy destroyer ; 257
(Hunting in hyperspace, waiting for a target of opportunity or an area of the battlefield that needs pushed in desperately)
Mephrit Deathmark 10x - 190
Mephrit Deathmark 10x - 190
(following the advance of forces as a screen till in range)
Transcendant Ctan - 225
Nightbringer - 210
Nephrek Scarabs - 3x 39
Nephrek Scarabs - 3x 39
Didn't see it on the points cost area but figured cause it's FW.
----
Also would grand illusion, TP matrix or similiar place on the board after game has started abilities count as 'movement' for purposes of Nihilakhs reroll to hits of 1 ability?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is timesplinter cloak an invul save, or is it a Feel no pain esque ability and if you also have invul then you have armor or invul (use better) and cloaks 5+?
It's not what you're asking, but its worth pointing out - the Gauss Pylon doesn't suffer -1 to hit because of moving, as the main gun isn't a heavy weapon, it's a macro weapon.
Also because they are Immoble and can't move.
Only the smaller, Sentry Pylons can move, and only 3".
I think he was referring to when a Sentry Pylon arrives from reinforcements it'll be hitting on 4+, while the Gauss Pylon hits on 3+ when arriving this way, neither benefits from Nihilakh when they arrive from reinforcements. It makes Sautekh a relatively much better option on Sentry Pylons compared to Gauss Pylons, also because they don't benefit as much from +1 to saving throws Strat.
Hes saying its macro so no -1 to hit for the gauss pylon, unless shooting at a non flyer.
Nah I was checking if our LoW pylons Teleportation matrix counted as movement (which was yes apparently) for purposes of the Nihilakh dynasty bonus.
Ie if I hold it off board for safety in case init seized etc cause nothing sucks more then losing that many points straight out the gate.
----
Tor - Hmm, I see what you mean.. Maybe im hoping the QS will put in work. **chuckle** But if they do survive I want to be able to hopefully get them up to the next highest degradation, though I suppose the mandatory cryptek to get the CP can do that for bottom to mid ranking easy enough.
So subtract the spyders and add just 1 extra DDA and a better weapon for the OL then for list 1?
The gauss pylon is somewhat strange to me. It's main targets are obviously TITANIC FLY units. I can't think of any I would normally encounter in a 2k 40k game. When was this thing released and why ?
p5 - Yeah I noticed that too and never run into both at once. *chuckle*
So I usually only use them if im expecting titanic stuff or very beefy fliers/armor or if I want to give some DDA's an invul save.
The games this Saturday.
The shop host / bday boy gets 10k, all comers against them with 2k armies working together in an unholy alliance.
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Spoiler:
List V4 - Hard to decide if I want the Autopass morale or the reroll failed charge WL trait...
Porting up for powers and lightning
Mephrit Tesseract Vault - 496
Dependent on GI roll may place forward if any highl oppurtunity spaces are left open, or simply hold back in allied forces bubble wrap and advance.
Nightbringer - 210
Deciever - 225
Nephrek Scarabs 3x - 39
Nephrek Scarabs 3x - 39
DS Commandos
Nephrek Flayed one 20x - 340
Nephrek Flayed one 20x - 340
Commando leadership / buffs (hiding till needed)
The traveler - 167
Nephrek Cryptek (Veil, staff, chronometron, rez orb) - 130
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Also debating if it would be worth taking an Nephrek Overlord as well and holding it in reserve with translocation crypt so it can plop down with the DS commandos and the Cryptek veil jumping the Traveler into support range. Cause unfortunately it wont be available to provide the MWBD the round the commandos show up but if they survive to the following turn then that'll be useful from there on.
1986 + Nephrek OL (voidblade) 90 - 6x Scarabs 78 = 1998 & 1 CP for Trans crypt...
Automatically Appended Next Post: For a harassment/assassin catacomb command barge which do you think is the better artifact to pair with Merciless Tyrant?
Lightning field for the 4+ invul survivability and 50% chance to generate a MW per unit closeby.
Or Voltaic Staff for +1 Weapon Str, AP and Dmg compared to a staff of light (assuming this is what you'll go for with Merciless Tyrant.
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Also, has anyone used Resurrection Protocols on a CCBarge after it's exploded?
I laughed at the mental image of the vehicle exploding from being melee swarmed, the enemies cheering their victory only to look over as the vehicle lands after having flow up / backwards to land wherever it ends up 1" away at the end of the fight phase. *chuckle*
p5freak wrote: The gauss pylon is somewhat strange to me. It's main targets are obviously TITANIC FLY units. I can't think of any I would normally encounter in a 2k 40k game. When was this thing released and why ?
The Pylon was released a LONG time ago. Its a very old kit thats been in use since the 3rd ed codex, best I'm aware.
That being said, a base 2+ BS means it gets a 3+ to hit vs ground targets, which is juuust fine tbh. 2+ vs flyers is just gravy, and the base 2+ BS only really comes into play vs large flyers in games with such a target present, where it takes damage.
p5freak wrote: The gauss pylon is somewhat strange to me. It's main targets are obviously TITANIC FLY units. I can't think of any I would normally encounter in a 2k 40k game. When was this thing released and why ?
The Pylon was released a LONG time ago. Its a very old kit thats been in use since the 3rd ed codex, best I'm aware.
That being said, a base 2+ BS means it gets a 3+ to hit vs ground targets, which is juuust fine tbh. 2+ vs flyers is just gravy, and the base 2+ BS only really comes into play vs large flyers in games with such a target present, where it takes damage.
It's a nice counter for the -1 to hit that some flyers have
Fair point. I think it packs plenty of firepower. Issue is its hard to keep it survivable outside of taking it Nihiliakh to get access to the save boosting strategem.
p5freak wrote: The gauss pylon is somewhat strange to me. It's main targets are obviously TITANIC FLY units. I can't think of any I would normally encounter in a 2k 40k game. When was this thing released and why ?
I think the pylon's rules in this edition are based on fluff rather than what would actually make sense in terms of the game. In for example the fall of damnos, pylons are used to shoot down starships in orbit, which corresponds well with how they decided to stat it. In terms of what you'll actually see in a game, however, it makes no sense.
p5freak wrote: The gauss pylon is somewhat strange to me. It's main targets are obviously TITANIC FLY units. I can't think of any I would normally encounter in a 2k 40k game. When was this thing released and why ?
40k has more options than just 2k game. Funny that FW unit would be designed to work with other FW units. There's for example this 1128 pts very iconic titanic flyer unit available. Now albeit that's not often fielded but neither are titans yet rules exists for those.
p5freak wrote: The gauss pylon is somewhat strange to me. It's main targets are obviously TITANIC FLY units. I can't think of any I would normally encounter in a 2k 40k game. When was this thing released and why ?
I think the pylon's rules in this edition are based on fluff rather than what would actually make sense in terms of the game. In for example the fall of damnos, pylons are used to shoot down starships in orbit, which corresponds well with how they decided to stat it. In terms of what you'll actually see in a game, however, it makes no sense.
Do Magnus or Mortarion has the Titanic keyword?
I believe that super giant Tzeentch Daemon Lord bird has Titanic and fly. And pretty sure Annaggrath has it. But the price for these Daemon Lords are... well maybe only suitable for 3000pts games. So it basically come down to the Daemon Primarchs, if they had "Titanic"
p5freak wrote: The gauss pylon is somewhat strange to me. It's main targets are obviously TITANIC FLY units. I can't think of any I would normally encounter in a 2k 40k game. When was this thing released and why ?
I think the pylon's rules in this edition are based on fluff rather than what would actually make sense in terms of the game. In for example the fall of damnos, pylons are used to shoot down starships in orbit, which corresponds well with how they decided to stat it. In terms of what you'll actually see in a game, however, it makes no sense.
Do Magnus or Mortarion has the Titanic keyword?
I believe that super giant Tzeentch Daemon Lord bird has Titanic and fly. And pretty sure Annaggrath has it. But the price for these Daemon Lords are... well maybe only suitable for 3000pts games. So it basically come down to the Daemon Primarchs, if they had "Titanic"
Negative on primarch, positive for the big tzeentch and khorne greater daemons.
In competive 2k you won't face flying titanic units. Good thing then 40k is more than just competive 2k.
After seeing a battle report where a guy had printed small nice magic like cards for his characters and some other units, I thought they looked awesome, and just had to have that.
Turns out they are created with "Magic Set Editor". I created the full necron set, attached as an mse file that you can open with said program (which is free), and a pdf print out of the current version of things. I'm not 100% done proof reading them, but thought I'd throw it out there.
Automatically Appended Next Post: come to think of it, the information contained on those cards might be stretching it. It is copied from battlescribe though.
The Towering Construct rule is kinda neat. Would like to see that applied as a general rule to all weirdly shaped walkers like that (obviously thinking of the Triarch Stalker here).
As for the actual mechanics... Yeah that's bad. It has the usual Necron problem of having tons of AP when all the targets you'd want to shoot it at have high invuln saves. With only a 3+/5++ protecting it it's basically a Castellan with none of the things people use to protect their Castellans, which means it's gonna get blown the hell of the table before you even get to shoot with it.
I have no idea why you would go for the Singularity Generators when you get the Synaptic Obliterators and Transdimensional Projectors for the same cost.
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