BrianDavion wrote: Tau will likely get some relics, some stratigiums a list of names etc. the useal supplement level support everyone has been getting.
Yep. Every non-marine. Marines get more because marines.
Marines got more because they'd already gotten supplement level support so they needed to ensure marine players got SOMETHING oput of F&F. this is also why chaos got deamon weapon rules, so that black legion and renegade players would buy it.
So the community page has a blurb from the next months white dwarf and it mentions the return of the silent king to 40k and it dawned on me then how similar his actual name, Szarekh, is to Illuminor Szeras and I am starting to think that large model that comes on an oval base with stalker legs will be him. Sort of like the Necron version of a primarch.
It gets me a bit more excited for a new large character model for my crons, since it seemed strange that it would just be a redesign of a named cryptek originally. If the Silent King returns that would make for some epic narrative involving none eldar xenos for once.
Red Corsair wrote: So the community page has a blurb from the next months white dwarf and it mentions the return of the silent king to 40k and it dawned on me then how similar his actual name, Szarekh, is to Illuminor Szeras and I am starting to think that large model that comes on an oval base with stalker legs will be him. Sort of like the Necron version of a primarch.
It gets me a bit more excited for a new large character model for my crons, since it seemed strange that it would just be a redesign of a named cryptek originally. If the Silent King returns that would make for some epic narrative involving none eldar xenos for once.
Large model with Stalker Legs? Was this a Rumour Image?
Kanluwen wrote: Someone pointed out over in the Tau thread that the Genestealers looked a bit different. We might be seeing the Purestrain kit finally!
The Shadowsun image has a notable protrusion that none of the current images I can find have:
Spoiler:
The current kit has those 'kneeplates' as modeled directly onto the exoskeleton:
Spoiler:
Tau versus GSC is kinda cool, throw in AdMech and we are set for party.
Also, Purestrains are in need of some love so new kit doesn't harm.
Tau versus GSC is kinda cool, throw in adMech and we are set for party.
Also, Purestrains are in need of some love so new kit doesn't harm.
I'm pretty sure ad mech will be throwing down with Necrons, Then again I never saw the DA vs thousand sons thing coming so I could be completely wrong.
If it is Tau vs GSC I hope that this turns out to be some massive screw up by the ethereals that created a situation they needed shadowsun to bail them out of. Like they were experimenting with using GSC to make psychic Tau, things went sideways, and now they have a strain of GSC that is a threat to the empire as a whole. They send in shadowsun to clean things up and she continues her journey of disillusionment with the leadership of the tau.
Kanluwen wrote: Someone pointed out over in the Tau thread that the Genestealers looked a bit different. We might be seeing the Purestrain kit finally!
The Shadowsun image has a notable protrusion that none of the current images I can find have:
Spoiler:
The current kit has those 'kneeplates' as modeled directly onto the exoskeleton:
Spoiler:
Could just be a genestealer from the Deathwatch Overkill box (although i'd like a new 'full' box of them with a bit of pose variety so here's hoping)
Voss wrote: I think the difference in genestealer is just down to the absurdist edge highlighting used.
It is. Its one of the of style stealers we see in the GSC codex.
right, the Genestealers in the studio GSC army are all the DW overkill models.
Same o ainting style, not necessarily that one model repeated. The Codex shows both the standard and DW:OK models alongside each other in the same exaggerated-highlights scheme.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The only source for that is a throw away line in some recent short story.
Ok still official canon!
And what's the specific line anyway?
"Even the mighty Grey Knights, from whose seed Rauth's Chapter had been born, could hardly have been more suited to the task."
For context, Rauth is a member of the Exorcists assigned to Deathwatch Kill Team Talon.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The only source for that is a throw away line in some recent short story.
Ok still official canon!
And what's the specific line anyway?
"Even the mighty Grey Knights, from whose seed Rauth's Chapter had been born, could hardly have been more suited to the task."
For context, Rauth is a member of the Exorcists assigned to Deathwatch Kill Team Talon.
Headhunted, pg 279 Hero's of the Space Marines
Such a bad throwaway line. For all intents and purposes anyone citing The Exorcists as a Grey Knights successor were just spouting fanon from 1d4chan.
Red Corsair wrote: So the community page has a blurb from the next months white dwarf and it mentions the return of the silent king to 40k and it dawned on me then how similar his actual name, Szarekh, is to Illuminor Szeras and I am starting to think that large model that comes on an oval base with stalker legs will be him. Sort of like the Necron version of a primarch.
It gets me a bit more excited for a new large character model for my crons, since it seemed strange that it would just be a redesign of a named cryptek originally. If the Silent King returns that would make for some epic narrative involving none eldar xenos for once.
Linking Szeras and Szarekh just because their names start with Sz seems... well, pretty thin. And honestly those two are practically opposites: Szeras was the architect of biotransference and continues to look to ways to augment the necron form because, as the Iron Hands say, the Flesh is Weak. Meanwhile Szarekh completely regrets the biotransference fate and would like to reverse it if he could. I doubt the two would ever work together. Besides, Szarekh has people for that. The Praetorians have been fulfilling his wishes for a while.
Welp, since we already knew Sisters of Battle and GSC would be in the same book this bums me out if we have to buy a big box set to get Shadowsun. At least I can probably find someone to offload Sisters on but GSC will be harder, I don't know anyone who doesn't dislike their models.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The only source for that is a throw away line in some recent short story.
Ok still official canon!
And what's the specific line anyway?
"Even the mighty Grey Knights, from whose seed Rauth's Chapter had been born, could hardly have been more suited to the task."
For context, Rauth is a member of the Exorcists assigned to Deathwatch Kill Team Talon.
Headhunted, pg 279 Hero's of the Space Marines
Such a bad throwaway line. For all intents and purposes anyone citing The Exorcists as a Grey Knights successor were just spouting fanon from 1d4chan.
It's still official, and there is nothing to contradict it anywhere.
In context, the kill team is going after an Ork psyker, so the Exorcist's abilities make them more useful than the anti-daemonic specialist Grey Knights,
LoftyS wrote: Welp, since we already knew Sisters of Battle and GSC would be in the same book this bums me out if we have to buy a big box set to get Shadowsun. At least I can probably find someone to offload Sisters on but GSC will be harder, I don't know anyone who doesn't dislike their models.
Crossing my fingers it's Tau vs. Sisters box set.
Odds are very good that the only release is Shadowsun by herself.
So you probably won't be 'bummed out.'
LoftyS wrote: Welp, since we already knew Sisters of Battle and GSC would be in the same book this bums me out if we have to buy a big box set to get Shadowsun. At least I can probably find someone to offload Sisters on but GSC will be harder, I don't know anyone who doesn't dislike their models.
Crossing my fingers it's Tau vs. Sisters box set.
Odds are very good that the only release is Shadowsun by herself.
So you probably won't be 'bummed out.'
When exactly is the fact that sisters are with genestealers been said?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The only source for that is a throw away line in some recent short story.
Ok still official canon!
And what's the specific line anyway?
"Even the mighty Grey Knights, from whose seed Rauth's Chapter had been born, could hardly have been more suited to the task."
For context, Rauth is a member of the Exorcists assigned to Deathwatch Kill Team Talon.
Headhunted, pg 279 Hero's of the Space Marines
Such a bad throwaway line. For all intents and purposes anyone citing The Exorcists as a Grey Knights successor were just spouting fanon from 1d4chan.
It's still official, and there is nothing to contradict it anywhere.
In context, the kill team is going after an Ork psyker, so the Exorcist's abilities make them more useful than the anti-daemonic specialist Grey Knights,
The writers get stuff wrong all the time though. Didn't one guy refer to a Primarch when they meant Chapter Master in one of the older novels, for example?
They get stuff wrong all the time. IIRC Wraight has Freki as a male wolf and Geri as female, whereas they're traditionally both male in older fluff, and Wraight is undoubtedly one of their best authors, one of the only good ones imo. It's still all canon in cases like this, that's the general custom from what I gather. You're best off disregarding the egregious stuff from your personal head canon imo, it's better than arguing the toss online. Thus I mostly ignore all GW fluff except the good stuff (aka the stuff I like personally) and thus everything remains glorious.
doesn't mean they're gonna be in the same book, sisters are clearly fighting chaos marines in their set up my guess is thats just a preview of upcoming models. which is good news for tau given that they're being displayed along side the massive sisters release
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Such a bad throwaway line. For all intents and purposes anyone citing The Exorcists as a Grey Knights successor were just spouting fanon from 1d4chan.
We get it, you hate that part of the lore. Still part of official cannon, so just learn to deal with it, though.
LoftyS wrote: Welp, since we already knew Sisters of Battle and GSC would be in the same book
Don't worry, a SoB logo means nothing, we had one prominently displayed for Faith and Fury, no new models and no new rules for Sisters in it...
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Such a bad throwaway line. For all intents and purposes anyone citing The Exorcists as a Grey Knights successor were just spouting fanon from 1d4chan.
We get it, you hate that part of the lore. Still part of official cannon, so just learn to deal with it, though.
LoftyS wrote: Welp, since we already knew Sisters of Battle and GSC would be in the same book
Don't worry, a SoB logo means nothing, we had one prominently displayed for Faith and Fury, no new models and no new rules for Sisters in it...
Yeah SoB have really had it rough these last few months ....
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Such a bad throwaway line. For all intents and purposes anyone citing The Exorcists as a Grey Knights successor were just spouting fanon from 1d4chan.
We get it, you hate that part of the lore. Still part of official cannon, so just learn to deal with it, though.
LoftyS wrote: Welp, since we already knew Sisters of Battle and GSC would be in the same book
Don't worry, a SoB logo means nothing, we had one prominently displayed for Faith and Fury, no new models and no new rules for Sisters in it...
Yeah SoB have really had it rough these last few months ....
more than 2 decades of pain mate. Finally get an army update and apparently thats too much for some
Mr Morden wrote: Finally get an army update and apparently thats too much for some
Not exactly, i'm happy for my sisters. I just wish some of the other factions got some equity, and i surely wouldn't complain about what you've gotten thus far.
I was just giving LoftyS some information so they know it doesn't mean that Sisters will be featured in the rule section of PA whatever, and therefore will leave room for other factions.
You seems easily triggered into a sarcastic quip though.
Red Corsair wrote: So the community page has a blurb from the next months white dwarf and it mentions the return of the silent king to 40k and it dawned on me then how similar his actual name, Szarekh, is to Illuminor Szeras and I am starting to think that large model that comes on an oval base with stalker legs will be him. Sort of like the Necron version of a primarch.
It gets me a bit more excited for a new large character model for my crons, since it seemed strange that it would just be a redesign of a named cryptek originally. If the Silent King returns that would make for some epic narrative involving none eldar xenos for once.
Linking Szeras and Szarekh just because their names start with Sz seems... well, pretty thin. And honestly those two are practically opposites: Szeras was the architect of biotransference and continues to look to ways to augment the necron form because, as the Iron Hands say, the Flesh is Weak. Meanwhile Szarekh completely regrets the biotransference fate and would like to reverse it if he could. I doubt the two would ever work together. Besides, Szarekh has people for that. The Praetorians have been fulfilling his wishes for a while.
I think you misunderstood me entirely. I am not theorizing based on lore or background or wish listing. I was speculating that the rumor monger that said Szeras would be getting a large multi legged model may have no idea what they are looking at since they didn't seem to know much about Necrons themselves and couldn't even get Szeras name straight. I don't recall the rumors orinator but I think I saw it from Kirioth,
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The only source for that is a throw away line in some recent short story.
Ok still official canon!
And what's the specific line anyway?
"Even the mighty Grey Knights, from whose seed Rauth's Chapter had been born, could hardly have been more suited to the task."
For context, Rauth is a member of the Exorcists assigned to Deathwatch Kill Team Talon.
Headhunted, pg 279 Hero's of the Space Marines
Such a bad throwaway line. For all intents and purposes anyone citing The Exorcists as a Grey Knights successor were just spouting fanon from 1d4chan.
Irrelevant for the topic though. You don't have to have successor chapters to be space marine.
bullyboy wrote: So I'm confused....SOB preorders begin January 11th, and I expect this will be at least a 2 week release. When the heck is PA4 actually coming out?
Alongside one of the Sisters waves? It's just a book and 1 model.
Smotejob wrote: It's a release with grey knights in it, therefore it will have minimal fanfare with the spotlight on their other more awesome projects
Grey knights, Thousand sons, and Dark angels are all factions where GW usually just chucks it out there and moves on as quickly as possible.
Which is really weird because they're also the factions (along with Blood Angels and Space wolves) where people seem the most passionate about the faction they're playing.
bullyboy wrote: So I'm confused....SOB preorders begin January 11th, and I expect this will be at least a 2 week release. When the heck is PA4 actually coming out?
Alongside one of the Sisters waves? It's just a book and 1 model.
it could also come out end of january. I mean.. if we have to wait big deal, sisters have been waiting 20 years, 2 weeks won't kill the factions in PA4
bullyboy wrote: So I'm confused....SOB preorders begin January 11th, and I expect this will be at least a 2 week release. When the heck is PA4 actually coming out?
Alongside one of the Sisters waves? It's just a book and 1 model.
it could also come out end of january. I mean.. if we have to wait big deal, sisters have been waiting 20 years, 2 weeks won't kill the factions in PA4
It's the forced frustration that's getting very boring with GW hype. They tease us for some "incredible" preview on the 24th, then no information at all. The SoB were the same : great hype with the boxset, then no news ; and when the news appears we suddenly learn that it is a limited edition boxset ... I hate this kind of hype.
Funny. You keep saying no news when they do give news. Just not full rules previews. Those always start after preorders. But guess for some PA needs to be special snowflake where GW has to change entire preview system just for the product.
tneva82 wrote: Funny. You keep saying no news when they do give news. Just not full rules previews. Those always start after preorders. But guess for some PA needs to be special snowflake where GW has to change entire preview system just for the product.
You are making no sense. I'm not asking for a preview of the content of the book or something, just a clear date and complete purchasing information. It has nothing to do with the faction involved in PA4 because it was the exact same for the SoB boxset : why keeping the fact that it was a limited edition boxset and the fact that the preorder period will last 2 weeks until the very last moment ? It's a way to create frustration, and it's boring.
Ghaz wrote: As usual, you will get the date the Sunday before it goes on pre-order.
As usual, you will get the price when it goes on pre-order.
And I personally think that the usual is boring and create frustration : GW should change to make it clearer so that when they hype something, they give us a date or at least a time frame, like they did with the full sister release after the fiasco that was the boxset release.
Man, that Death vs Chaos book sounds amazing...I wish we could have some kind of evil vs evil campaign for 40k. Necrons vs Iron Warriors, Tyranids vs Orks...
the_scotsman wrote: Man, that Death vs Chaos book sounds amazing...I wish we could have some kind of evil vs evil campaign for 40k. Necrons vs Iron Warriors, Tyranids vs Orks...
it's just a campaign book though, no boxed set etc.
Ghaz wrote: As usual, you will get the date the Sunday before it goes on pre-order.
My issue is that we've known about the contents of PA4 for awhile now. We were teased about a big reveal Xmas Day, and it really wasn't. Then all of a sudden we have this complete lull in the releases (its the holidays, i get it). So instead of chucking out the hyped PA4 the first week after the holidays we get Aether wars instead, then told next is Sisters of Battle, but still nothing regarding PA4. If it was supposed to be late January, why start the hype in late November, early December.? It's just a book and 1 model, hardly worth the build up so far.
Sure, they could squeeze it in with the Sisters releases, but that seems odd. We've also not heard a squeak about the rules content, the usual rumour mills are absolutely silent, it's quite strange really. I know it's Dark Angels and secrets etc, but damn, this thing has been kept hush for quite a while now. So I guess bravo to the GW team for keeping it hidden, I guess? I still find it strange, especially when we've had a pretty good source in accurate rumours from the French sector.
bullyboy wrote: If it was supposed to be late January, why start the hype in late November, early December.? It's just a book and 1 model, hardly worth the build up so far.
You guys don't think they'll preview PA4 today? Meaning it'll go on pre-order the 11th.. I just sort of assumed that'd be the case seeing as they didn't even mention it at the open day as far as I'm aware..
PiñaColada wrote: You guys don't think they'll preview PA4 today? Meaning it'll go on pre-order the 11th.. I just sort of assumed that'd be the case seeing as they didn't even mention it at the open day as far as I'm aware..
That's one heck of a break after 3 Ritual of the Damned short stories and no rules previews yet.. In any case, the past 3 weeks had a short story released on Monday: Dec 16, Dec 23, Dec 30. So I hope tomorrow, Jan 6, we'll see previews for the book and hopefully it will go up WITH sisters stuff on the 11th.
It sort of feels like somewhere along the line things got delayed with the PA stuff.
If we assume that shadowsun was going to be revealed on the new year open day around 6 months ago, it feels like PA IV should have been announced for pre-order/released this weekend just gone and there's been a delay.
Maybe shadownsun wasn't going to be revealed but GW has listened to the disgruntling of xenos fans and decided to show it to prove it's not all super marines.
Maybe it's the sisters of battle releases that has caused the delay... Who knows really, but it does seem a little all over the place, out of order and congested all of a sudden with the PA releases.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: It sort of feels like somewhere along the line things got delayed with the PA stuff.
If we assume that shadowsun was going to be revealed on the new year open day around 6 months ago, it feels like PA IV should have been announced for pre-order/released this weekend just gone and there's been a delay.
Maybe shadownsun wasn't going to be revealed but GW has listened to the disgruntling of xenos fans and decided to show it to prove it's not all super marines.
Maybe it's the sisters of battle releases that has caused the delay... Who knows really, but it does seem a little all over the place, out of order and congested all of a sudden with the PA releases.
You would like to hope sharing a month with any faction having a total relaunch would prove it's not all marines really
endlesswaltz123 wrote: It sort of feels like somewhere along the line things got delayed with the PA stuff.
If we assume that shadowsun was going to be revealed on the new year open day around 6 months ago, it feels like PA IV should have been announced for pre-order/released this weekend just gone and there's been a delay.
Maybe shadownsun wasn't going to be revealed but GW has listened to the disgruntling of xenos fans and decided to show it to prove it's not all super marines.
Maybe it's the sisters of battle releases that has caused the delay... Who knows really, but it does seem a little all over the place, out of order and congested all of a sudden with the PA releases.
Lol. PA4 is not out in the start of the month and it's delay. It's been PA a month pretty consistently. It's 5.1. Plenty weeks left and already delays?
Not to mention any delay would have been decided months ago. And congested? What's congested. PA4 January, PA5 February, PA6 March. Fits PA1, 2 and 3. What congestion?
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Maybe shadownsun wasn't going to be revealed but GW has listened to the disgruntling of xenos fans and decided to show it to prove it's not all super marines.
40K has felt congested for a long time - the fact that some factions (CSM, SM) must buy three books for their rules is a good illustration of that fact.
WhiteDog wrote: 40K has felt congested for a long time - the fact that some factions (CSM, SM) must buy three books for their rules is a good illustration of that fact.
Ill trade you that SM book for a never used only dropped once GK codex, think how much time and effort you'll save not having to play your games or buy new books/models!
WhiteDog wrote: 40K has felt congested for a long time - the fact that some factions (CSM, SM) must buy three books for their rules is a good illustration of that fact.
Ill trade you that SM book for a never used only dropped once GK codex, think how much time and effort you'll save not having to play your games or buy new books/models!
I personally don't play SM (I have a DA army but no SM) so I didn't buy the last SM codex. But I did buy the CSM "v2" and felt robbed. I also bought vigilus ablaze and faith and fury and you can imagine how happy I am to go play with a friend with those three books plus my army. You will soon be able to buy a psychic awakening for GK I'm sure you're thrilled about that.
WhiteDog wrote: But I did buy the CSM "v2" and felt robbed. I also bought vigilus ablaze and faith and fury and you can imagine how happy I am to go play with a friend with those three books plus my army. You will soon be able to buy a psychic awakening for GK I'm sure you're thrilled about that.
I'm sorry, i didn't know, i wouldn't have made a sarcastic comment if i knew it was thatbad (CSM "v2" looks like SM "1.1" to me).
Also i'm not thrilled, i'm worried, GW has had such a bad track record with this faction. "Fix" after "fix" after "fix" 2 years going. Add to that the fact that it's seemly delayed and that worry seems justified.
OK, so earliest release date is now the 25th, but more realistically it will be Feb 1st allowing a 2 week release for the SOB. Could be wrong, but that's the way it's looking.
How is it the 25th? who has shared confirmation that it will not release alongside sisters stuff the 11th? Does sisters stuff go on preorder the 11th? where are you getting this info
Brometheus wrote: How is it the 25th? who has shared confirmation that it will not release alongside sisters stuff the 11th? Does sisters stuff go on preorder the 11th? where are you getting this info
Sisters got THREE kits for preorder in 11th. Out of at least 16 I think they will in the end need to cover all units in their codex. This rate keeps up sisters will be five week release...
Unless the PA comes to preorder together with sister week #2 then first preorder could be 25th. And that's assuming week 2 for sisters is last one but that means 13 kits in one go for sisters(at which point not go for more even). It could very well be sisters are 3-4 week release. Though whether successive is another thing. We know all sisters will be out by start of april unless GW changes their patterns but that's it.
Brometheus wrote: Very well I was wrong because I didn't see the article/news. I'll leave my previous post up to admit it my shame lol
Well I was expecting PA4 to come sooner as well. But then again I wasn't expecting sister release to be this small. I had been F5'ing a lot and cursed aloud when I saw how little sisters ended up getting for first week(weirdest thing is no canoness. You literally can't start with legal battallion with next week orders as your only HQ is special character...Which you don't want to field in small games...).
Ah well. Wasn't expecting full sister release now but was expecting most with rest coming month or two later. Way off. Alas not in positive direction :-/
LOL! At least it's a good story. I've never seen a CSM seem quite so...reasonable.
He seems to have some rather severe blinders on. There are points where he seems to realize what's actually going on, but talks himself out of it.
There's also some other indicators that he isn't as wise and knowledgeable as he wants to think. For all that's he internally monologing about the ignorance of others, he happily accepts that each arrival is exactly the right number and unironically accepts the idea of 'freshly reblessed' fuel hoses.
He seems to have some rather severe blinders on. There are points where he seems to realize what's actually going on, but talks himself out of it.
There's also some other indicators that he isn't as wise and knowledgeable as he wants to think. For all that's he internally monologing about the ignorance of others, he happily accepts that each arrival is exactly the right number and unironically accepts the idea of 'freshly reblessed' fuel hoses.
I think overestimating there own wisdom is something of a 1k sons trait though I do like that it shows in there own deluded way the Sons still think they are doing the right thing.
He seems to have some rather severe blinders on. There are points where he seems to realize what's actually going on, but talks himself out of it.
There's also some other indicators that he isn't as wise and knowledgeable as he wants to think. For all that's he internally monologing about the ignorance of others, he happily accepts that each arrival is exactly the right number and unironically accepts the idea of 'freshly reblessed' fuel hoses.
I think overestimating there own wisdom is something of a 1k sons trait though I do like that it shows in there own deluded way the Sons still think they are doing the right thing.
Well, if the Emperor had waited, like, 30 seconds to hear Magnus out, none of this would've happened.
the Emperor did listen to him, but did not believed him after he was manipulated by Chaos to open a portal for daemons to enter Terra and destroyed the new webway
If you expected any of the ambigiously-worded Tyranid rules to be decided in their favour, then lol.
just as importantly
We have received a number of questions
asking if, as a successor Chapter of the Imperial Fists, the
Black Templars benefit from both the Knights of Sigismund
and Legacy of Dorn rules (and whether they get access to the
Imperial Fists’ Warlord traits, Stratagems, psychic powers and
Relics etc. in addition to the Black Templars ones presented in
Faith and Fury). To be clear, although the Black Templars are
an Imperial Fists successor Chapter, they deviate significantly
from its tactics and doctrines, and as such we have provided a
bespoke, dedicated set of rules to represent them on the tabletop
in Faith & Fury. They cannot make use of any of the rules
found in Codex Supplement: Imperial Fists.
(emphisis mine)
seriously how anyone expected anything other then that baffles me.
kodos wrote: the Emperor did listen to him, but did not believed him after he was manipulated by Chaos to open a portal for daemons to enter Terra and destroyed the new webway
I might be misrembering but as I recall Magnus broke into the Throne room, went up to the Emperor (metaphorically) then realised what he'd done and the spell broke because he couldn't both concentrate and freak out he'd ruined dads plan.
seriously how anyone expected anything other then that baffles me.
I don't think anyone was expecting anything else, but before this the rules definitely gave them both sets of rules. It is good that they clearly stated that this is no the case.
seriously how anyone expected anything other then that baffles me.
I don't think anyone was expecting anything else, but before this the rules definitely gave them both sets of rules. It is good that they clearly stated that this is no the case.
Yep. It really should have been errata for the IF supplement quite a while ago. Or possibly in the main SM rules about ambiguous or multiple possible parent chapters/rule sets.
But it did need to be stated.
LOL! At least it's a good story. I've never seen a CSM seem quite so...reasonable.
He seems to have some rather severe blinders on. There are points where he seems to realize what's actually going on, but talks himself out of it.
There's also some other indicators that he isn't as wise and knowledgeable as he wants to think. For all that's he internally monologing about the ignorance of others, he happily accepts that each arrival is exactly the right number and unironically accepts the idea of 'freshly reblessed' fuel hoses.
I must admit, as a Thousand Sons fan and player, I found that story pretty poor to read if I’m honest.
The only thing of substance I gleaned from the story was that there are a lot of ships arriving to Prospero, always with 10 aspirants on board, of which 1 gets turned into part of the beacons flame. I also have no idea why there are so many “Imperial” references in the story. From praying to the machine spirits to open the doors, to “blessed” fuel hoses.
Maybe it’s just me being tired, but it felt like I had to force myself to carry on reading to the end.
It links to an earlier short story where the two civilians join up, I am guessing this short story is a bridge to another that will be more conclusive.
kodos wrote: the Emperor did listen to him, but did not believed him after he was manipulated by Chaos to open a portal for daemons to enter Terra and destroyed the new webway
I might be misrembering but as I recall Magnus broke into the Throne room, went up to the Emperor (metaphorically) then realised what he'd done and the spell broke because he couldn't both concentrate and freak out he'd ruined dads plan.
it was mentioned in on of the other books that Magnus delivered his initial message about Horus but it was taken as blaming someone else of a greater betrayal to justify his actions.
Summoning bonuses are useless as long as you have to reserve points for them, you might as well just buy the unit and not play down. I dont think units should be free, but they really need to adopt an AoS style system where you earn points by accomplishing tasks and then can spend them on summoned units.
If having a Tzeentch detachment breaks Cults of Prospero Resurrected (if its a thing), bet your butt I'll be ditching my Tz battalion detachment and just summoning Horrors and Flamers.
I take this rumor to the salt mine, its practically identical to what some people (myself included) has written down as pure guesswork on this very thread.
The fact it would create a bookeeping nightmare furthers the fact its dubious.
BoomWolf wrote: I take this rumor to the salt mine, its practically identical to what some people (myself included) has written down as pure guesswork on this very thread.
The fact it would create a bookeeping nightmare furthers the fact its dubious.
I'm waiting to see what Grey Knights get, by far the worst faction in the game, and the buff only applies to MONOGKs, so unless it's akin to the leak or better it won't change anything.
quickfuze wrote: Summoning bonuses are useless as long as you have to reserve points for them, you might as well just buy the unit and not play down. I dont think units should be free, but they really need to adopt an AoS style system where you earn points by accomplishing tasks and then can spend them on summoned units.
The AoS style systems are about 80% imbalanced and 20% good, because 80% of the armies more or less get summoning mechanics in addition to their normal ones as a free (or nearly so) upgrade. It isn't like GW nerfs other parts of the army to compensate. I understand the frustration of reserve points, but having played both sides I found the reserve points to be better in practice due to GWs ineptitude at balancing game mechanics.
BoomWolf wrote: I take this rumor to the salt mine, its practically identical to what some people (myself included) has written down as pure guesswork on this very thread.
The fact it would create a bookeeping nightmare furthers the fact its dubious.
I'm waiting to see what Grey Knights get, by far the worst faction in the game, and the buff only applies to MONOGKs, so unless it's akin to the leak or better it won't change anything.
well if GKs get additional spells and some juicy strats that'd IMHO be pretty key.
I still think GW is so afraid of the way summoning could bring legions of unpaid for units to the table in previous editions that they (as usual) swung the pendulum far too hard in the opposite direction.
I always thought summoning daemons should be free points, but count as a psychic action. Perhaps make it work like Smite, in that you can "cast" it several times per turn, it just gets harder each time. Also, the larger the summoned unit, the harder to cast.
Unfortunately the nature of GW is they cannot currently be trusted to balance 0-point summons. They cannot even be trusted to balance the original point cost of the units being summoned!
They could bring back Dimensional Instability to help balance summoning.
The other option would be that summoning is just a way to deploy already bought units. That would be useful if daemons didn't already have ways to deepstrike themselves, or if it could get around some of the deepstrike restrictions. It'd be worth having to do the psychic test for an already paid for unit if you could bring them in within 3" of enemy units or something.
GW's ability of finding the correct balance aside, balancing the mechanic with one limited resource (points) instead of another limited resource (psychic actions, bought indirectly through points spend on psykers) doesn't seem like much of a difference IMO.
The other option would be that summoning is just a way to deploy already bought units. That would be useful if daemons didn't already have ways to deepstrike themselves, or if it could get around some of the deepstrike restrictions. It'd be worth having to do the psychic test for an already paid for unit if you could bring them in within 3" of enemy units or something.
Just removing the need to appear near the summoner would already make it decent. It's would basically be Da Jump for daemons.
The other option would be that summoning is just a way to deploy already bought units. That would be useful if daemons didn't already have ways to deepstrike themselves, or if it could get around some of the deepstrike restrictions. It'd be worth having to do the psychic test for an already paid for unit if you could bring them in within 3" of enemy units or something.
Just removing the need to appear near the summoner would already make it decent. It's would basically be Da Jump for daemons.
That would probably make it worth it even with having to pay for the daemons.
Is this how the cults work in hh? Making every psyker a different cult sounds like a lot of book keeping to keep track of.
Summoning demons surely has its advantages, not last the fact that you can tailor to the situtation. Problem is that it is tied to a char which needs to sacrifice movement, and then appears close to that char, so you have some serious limits on the placement of those demons. If some of those restrictions were lifted, i could see them being used even with reinforcement points still in place.
I feel like that Soulblaze stratagem, if accurate, could let Rubrics do some real work, especially on Primaris marines. And an ability to swap units around has some interesting potential (or at least it does for Disciples of Tzeentch over in AoS).
I also wonder how these rules, if accurate, would interact with Magnus and Ahriman.
As to the summoning thing, I think a good fix would be if there was a stratagem that said like "Once per game, at the start of your turn you can exchange 1 CP for 100 reserve points, or 3CP for 200 reserve points". This way at most you could only get like 200 points of "free" daemons (so no more than 10% of most games total points) and you have to give up CP to do it. I think this would be a much better balance, especially if GW got rid of the restriction on movement and summoning. Like someone said before me, if a unit could move and summon I would probably use summoning more now.
BoomWolf wrote: I take this rumor to the salt mine, its practically identical to what some people (myself included) has written down as pure guesswork on this very thread.
The fact it would create a bookeeping nightmare furthers the fact its dubious.
Clearly you do not play Drukhari. Bookeeping nightmares have never stopped GW before!
Not sure if it's been mentioned here (can't find it anywhere) but Valrak has done a video in which he has information that relates to PA5 and PA6.
PA5 - Apparently Tau may be against Death Guard rather than GSC in their book (or perhaps both). Apparently on the Psychic Awakening galaxy map the Tau symbol appears near the location of the Startide Nexus which is also a place the Death Guard are headed to.
PA6 - Apparently the voice actor that did the voice over for "James Workshop" has a credit on his CV of voice-overs - "Saga of the Beast - Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka - Games Workshop - Black Library - Matthew Renshaw". The assumption is that there's either a trailer with Ghazzy's voice in it or Valrak believes there's going to be an accompanying audio drama from Black Library with Saga of the Beast. So, if it wasn't abundantly clear already, Ghazzy is the Ork focus of Saga of the Beast. Valrak expects a new Ghazzy model because of this.
PA5 - Apparently Tau may be against Death Guard rather than GSC in their book (or perhaps both). Apparently on the Psychic Awakening galaxy map the Tau symbol appears near the location of the Startide Nexus which is also a place the Death Guard are headed to.
The Tau vs DG short story will probably post next week and there's another one with GSC in it by themselves. What if the book has all three? :]
PA5 - Apparently Tau may be against Death Guard rather than GSC in their book (or perhaps both). Apparently on the Psychic Awakening galaxy map the Tau symbol appears near the location of the Startide Nexus which is also a place the Death Guard are headed to.
The Tau vs DG short story will probably post next week and there's another one with GSC in it by themselves. What if the book has all three? :]
Or what if Tau vs DG is nothing but the usual nonsense, that keeps getting amplified?
There's art that got passed around with DG vs Tau, as if it was "proof" but it wasn't new.
PA5 - Apparently Tau may be against Death Guard rather than GSC in their book (or perhaps both). Apparently on the Psychic Awakening galaxy map the Tau symbol appears near the location of the Startide Nexus which is also a place the Death Guard are headed to.
The Tau vs DG short story will probably post next week and there's another one with GSC in it by themselves. What if the book has all three? :]
Or what if Tau vs DG is nothing but the usual nonsense, that keeps getting amplified?
There's art that got passed around with DG vs Tau, as if it was "proof" but it wasn't new.
There is a "proof". On the website, the simbol of tau indicating a new anomaly has appeared... and it's in the north east of the galaxy, far above the empire.
It's possible it will be a threeway. Wasn't there a tweet stating tau would have more opponents?
This is the only thing that GW officially have stated:
Shadowsun drops in alongside the release of book 5 of Psychic Awakening, titled “The Greater Good”, but we’ll have to wait a little bit longer before we find out who the T’au will be up against.
That symbol, by the way, is if you overlay the map of the Imperium from the main book on the world of "Kar Duniash".
The short stories haven't been a 100% accurate indicator of anything--"Gift of Hope" for example is about Harlequins and yet Phoenix Rising didn't have 'em.
"The Weak and the Strong" had Astra Militarum, yet Blood of Baal didn't have 'em.
"Keeping Order" had Astra Militarum, yet Faith and Fury didn't have them.
I wouldn't be shocked if they shoehorn Death Guard in, but literally right now if you were to go and look at Valrak's own twitter feed at the time of the Open Day(which he was at), he says "Tau vs GSC" with no mention of Death Guard.
This Tau story details them as a major and terrifying opponent, seemingly not only encountering them on planet combat but also in major space battles. If anything I'd be surprised it's GSC with those other two factions!
That would explain the genestealers in the background of that Open Day banner with Shadowsun, though, if we were taking it into consideration as a tease element.
GSC and Death Guard actually have something in common from an adversary POV, both tend to attack you with insidious biological weapons So I could see them tossing them together agaisnt the Tau in some sort of horrific theme of "the Tau must purge their own while fighting the death guard and tau for the greater good"
I like the idea of the Tau vs GSC vs DG set-up. It's one of the rare instances where none of the three would even consider the other two as temporary allies so basically all three want to wipe the other two out.
Jidmah wrote: I like the idea of the Tau vs GSC vs DG set-up. It's one of the rare instances where none of the three would even consider the other two as temporary allies so basically all three want to wipe the other two out.
Yea, I also like it, not only for the reasons you've mentioned but also because each of the factions (arguably) represent a different side of the same thematic coin - each believe they are working for the "greater good" for one reason or another and all of them are completely brainwashed.
BrianDavion wrote: GSC and Death Guard actually have something in common from an adversary POV, both tend to attack you with insidious biological weapons So I could see them tossing them together agaisnt the Tau in some sort of horrific theme of "the Tau must purge their own while fighting the death guard and tau for the greater good"
So basically the tau would be dealing with a bit of a zombie outbreak from the dg and a bit of a "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" situation from gsc at the same time while having to deal with the actual opposing armies?
Jidmah wrote: I like the idea of the Tau vs GSC vs DG set-up. It's one of the rare instances where none of the three would even consider the other two as temporary allies so basically all three want to wipe the other two out.
Yea, I also like it, not only for the reasons you've mentioned but also because each of the factions (arguably) represent a different side of the same thematic coin - each believe they are working for the "greater good" for one reason or another and all of them are completely brainwashed.
That's actually awesomely true. Actually, it fits so well, it makes me think that GW couldn't possible have done that...
They could tie in the experiments Tau have been doing on genestealers (deathwatch: shadowbreaker) which would also tie in the ordo xenos as it was some within the ordo that gave the tau the specimens to work upon (operation blackseed).
One the of the experiment cells becomes compromised due to the psychic awakening, specimens escape and bam, we got an infestation on our hands.
For those have not read the book, it's implied that tau GSC hybrids don't develop the psychic connections, thus do not call the hive mind... I'd need to go back and read the book again but it's implied this can be useful against nids.
Never going to happen mind in PA but it would be cool. No idea how I could fit the DG into that.
WarCom wrote:You can also build this model as a Primaris Master, armed with a bolt carbine with special issue ammunition and a power fist, including a helmeted option and a bare head with a bionic eye.
Nice that it can be built as a generic Primaris Master. But, I hope that is just an option and not restrictive. Because there is a power sword in the box, and it would be ridiculous if the Master can't take it and has to use the fist...
WarCom wrote:You can also build this model as a Primaris Master, armed with a bolt carbine with special issue ammunition and a power fist, including a helmeted option and a bare head with a bionic eye.
Nice that it can be built as a generic Primaris Master. But, I hope that is just an option and not restrictive. Because there is a power sword in the box, and it would be ridiculous if the Master can't take it and has to use the fist...
We can already build a master with power sword and bolt rifle, or a master with gauntlet and plasma pistol. Now there is a third configuration, and I guess he has a bolt carbine and not a normal bolter simply to differentiate it from others.
“Nice that it can be built as a generic Primaris Master. But, I hope that is just an option and not restrictive. Because there is a power sword in the box, and it would be ridiculous if the Master can't take it and has to use the fist...”
I’m assuming it’s in case you want the carbine and the sword and the carbine one is not locked into being with the fist.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Well, ol Grey Knights been doing well at this weekend's Warhammer World Invitational Season Finale GT.
Spoiler:
So you're saying there's a chance.
Not sure if hes running the same list he won with recently, but it's not mono GKs, It's a single detachment, barely over the threshold (Guard & Custodies allies), and that's only because he squeezed 3 GMNDs into a battalion.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Sounds like he is doing well with a guard/custodes army despite having so many grey knights in it
To be fair he did pick our strongest unit to invest 1/3rd of his army in, and they vote and award points for artistic efforts(?) in a "GT" that was invite only - stuff like that really skews the results.
So, we're saying that half the book will be new Dark Angel rules, then GKs and 1KSons will get a page of new relics, a page of new Stratagems and a Name Generator?
H.B.M.C. wrote: So, we're saying that half the book will be new Dark Angel rules, then GKs and 1KSons will get a page of new relics, a page of new Stratagems and a Name Generator?
that'd be my guess. Dark Angels will get the bulk of the new rules in terms of page count but that'll just be because of Primaris reprints, once you eliminate that every faction'll get a page of relics, a page of strats, a name generator, and a page of "mono codex bonus" rules (which in the case of dark angels will be doctrine+ super doctrine)
H.B.M.C. wrote: So, we're saying that half the book will be new Dark Angel rules, then GKs and 1KSons will get a page of new relics, a page of new Stratagems and a Name Generator?
88 pages in the book
-16 pages are short stories
-40 pages for copy Pasted + new dark angel rules and fluff
-4 for Front and Back cover art
-2 for appendix and contents
-6 for random page art
-2 for 1k and gk name generator tables
That leaves ~9 pages of content and fluff for Thousand Sons and Greyknights.
LMFAO, no wonder why they haven't teased this book at all on their community page.
It's a disaster!
They have a Psychic Awakening about the two most Psychically powerful cabals (Thousand Sons and Grey Knights) only to release a new model for Dark Angels.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So, we're saying that half the book will be new Dark Angel rules, then GKs and 1KSons will get a page of new relics, a page of new Stratagems and a Name Generator?
88 pages in the book
-16 pages are short stories
-40 pages for copy Pasted + new dark angel rules and fluff
-4 for Front and Back cover art
-2 for appendix and contents
-6 for random page art
-2 for 1k and gk name generator tables
That leaves ~9 pages of content and fluff for Thousand Sons and Greyknights.
LMFAO, no wonder why they haven't teased this book at all on their community page.
It's a disaster!
They have a Psychic Awakening about the two most Psychically powerful cabals (Thousand Sons and Grey Knights) only to release a new model for Dark Angels.
9 pages is sufficant.
We can assume 1 page of WL traits, 1 page of strats, 1 page of relics, 1 page devoted to their mono codex bonus. with the remaining page possiably unique GK litanies for a chaplain
H.B.M.C. wrote: So, we're saying that half the book will be new Dark Angel rules, then GKs and 1KSons will get a page of new relics, a page of new Stratagems and a Name Generator?
88 pages in the book
-16 pages are short stories
-40 pages for copy Pasted + new dark angel rules and fluff
-4 for Front and Back cover art
-2 for appendix and contents
-6 for random page art
-2 for 1k and gk name generator tables
That leaves ~9 pages of content and fluff for Thousand Sons and Greyknights.
LMFAO, no wonder why they haven't teased this book at all on their community page.
It's a disaster!
They have a Psychic Awakening about the two most Psychically powerful cabals (Thousand Sons and Grey Knights) only to release a new model for Dark Angels.
9 pages is sufficant.
We can assume 1 page of WL traits, 1 page of strats, 1 page of relics, 1 page devoted to their mono codex bonus. with the remaining page possiably unique GK litanies for a chaplain
9 Pages for the most powerful psyker factions in the PSYCHIC AWAKENING versus ~40 for some normies in green
H.B.M.C. wrote: So, we're saying that half the book will be new Dark Angel rules, then GKs and 1KSons will get a page of new relics, a page of new Stratagems and a Name Generator?
88 pages in the book
-16 pages are short stories
-40 pages for copy Pasted + new dark angel rules and fluff
-4 for Front and Back cover art
-2 for appendix and contents
-6 for random page art
-2 for 1k and gk name generator tables
That leaves ~9 pages of content and fluff for Thousand Sons and Greyknights.
LMFAO, no wonder why they haven't teased this book at all on their community page.
It's a disaster!
They have a Psychic Awakening about the two most Psychically powerful cabals (Thousand Sons and Grey Knights) only to release a new model for Dark Angels.
9 pages is sufficant.
We can assume 1 page of WL traits, 1 page of strats, 1 page of relics, 1 page devoted to their mono codex bonus. with the remaining page possiably unique GK litanies for a chaplain
9 Pages for the most powerful psyker factions in the PSYCHIC AWAKENING versus ~40 for some normies in green
BAHAHAH
those "40 pages" which you predict, based entirely on how many blood angels got, are almost all reprints of primaris units. once you eliminate that... they get the same content as everyone else. but hey don't let the facts get in the way. Now do you have someone relevant to add to this thread or are you just trying to hijack the PA thread with anti-marine BS?
Not to mention that the 88pg one doesn't have the short stories. That's the limited edition one. So there are 16 more pages than your already accounting for.....
Hulksmash wrote: Not to mention that the 88pg one doesn't have the short stories. That's the limited edition one. So there are 16 more pages than your already accounting for.....
even without short stories there's useally about a dozen pages of fluff,
Could go back to complaining about the actual imbalance between Technicolors and the rest since the summer but we have countless threads about that. Keep tilting at page counts.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Sounds like he is doing well with a guard/custodes army despite having so many grey knights in it
To be fair he did pick our strongest unit to invest 1/3rd of his army in, and they vote and award points for artistic efforts(?) in a "GT" that was invite only - stuff like that really skews the results.
How does awarding points for being competitive in your painting skew results in a competitive event about painted miniatures? Lol,
If anything, it'd skew results and if you were not to award points for that. Or it wouldn't be genuinely competitive. That'd be like scoring only the swimming in a triathlon. Kinda misses the whole point of the sport/discipline, lol.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Sounds like he is doing well with a guard/custodes army despite having so many grey knights in it
To be fair he did pick our strongest unit to invest 1/3rd of his army in, and they vote and award points for artistic efforts(?) in a "GT" that was invite only - stuff like that really skews the results.
How does awarding points for being competitive in your painting skew results in a competitive event about painted miniatures? Lol,
If anything, it'd skew results and if you were not to award points for that. Or it wouldn't be genuinely competitive. That'd be like scoring only the swimming in a triathlon. Kinda misses the whole point of the sport/discipline, lol.
Means in other tournaments this "grey knight" army would drop even lower. Not to mention calling it grey knight army is stretch. Is any army using loyal 32 ig army then?
Means in other tournaments this "grey knight" army would drop even lower. Not to mention calling it grey knight army is stretch. Is any army using loyal 32 ig army then?
Sure. But that's just proves that other tournaments are less competitive as you need to compete in fewer aspects of the painted miniatures hobby, thus requiring less skills, being a less-rounded "athlete", etc.. to get to the top.
Is that army a Grey Knight army? Probably not, but that's a different debate (which the ITC and other tournament outfits also have every couple of years).
BrianDavion wrote: those "40 pages" which you predict, based entirely on how many blood angels got, are almost all reprints of primaris units. once you eliminate that... they get the same content as everyone else.
No, they don't. Please stop pushing this ridiculous false narrative.
Marines get supplement-tier content.
Everyone else gets less.
We've seen this time and time again. The respective Chaos sub factions received less than BT in FnF. Tyranids did not get as many rules as BA in BoB.
but hey don't let the facts get in the way. Now do you have someone relevant to add to this thread or are you just trying to hijack the PA thread with anti-marine BS?
It seems to me that you're mistaking "facts" with "your opinion". Stating actual facts (that non-codex Marine factions receive less than codex Marines in all of the PA books) is not "anti-marine BS". You should stop getting so defensive and start thinking objectively.
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tneva82 wrote: Not to mention calling it grey knight army is stretch. Is any army using loyal 32 ig army then?
How else would you define this list?
Spoiler:
Grey Knights Battalion | 3 x Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight (Dreadfist, Dreadknight Teleporter, Gatling Psylancer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword), 3 x 5 Strike Squad (Falchions, Storm Bolters), 5 Interceptors (Falchions, Storm Bolters) |
Custodes Supreme Command | 3 x Shield Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike (Hurricane Bolter)|
Astra Militarum Battalion | 2 x Company Commander (Boltgun), 3 x Infantry Squad (Lasguns), Infantry Squad (Lasguns, Boltgun)
It's absolutely a GK list - the majority of the points are spent on GK units!?
BrianDavion wrote: those "40 pages" which you predict, based entirely on how many blood angels got, are almost all reprints of primaris units. once you eliminate that... they get the same content as everyone else.
No, they don't. Please stop pushing this ridiculous false narrative.
Marines get supplement-tier content.
Everyone else gets less.
We've seen this time and time again. The respective Chaos sub factions received less than BT in FnF. Tyranids did not get as many rules as BA in BoB.
but hey don't let the facts get in the way. Now do you have someone relevant to add to this thread or are you just trying to hijack the PA thread with anti-marine BS?
It seems to me that you're mistaking "facts" with "your opinion". Stating actual facts (that non-codex Marine factions receive less than codex Marines in all of the PA books) is not "anti-marine BS". You should stop getting so defensive and start thinking objectively.
and you should read the previews. they're told us Grey Knights are getting something called "masters of the warp" if they are mono codex. and 1k sons are getting rules for their cults they can take, if mono codex. in short, each is presumably getting relics, strats, warlord traits (because this is what everyone has gotten) and 1k sons and grey knights are getting a doctrine equivilant too. Dark Angels are getting a ton of primaris stuff as well no doubt, but given that the rules for anything new to come out in 8th edition has been in the box, and we've been told the stuff is avaliable for DAs, SWs and BAs that hardly qualifies as new
tneva82 wrote: Not to mention calling it grey knight army is stretch. Is any army using loyal 32 ig army then?
How else would you define this list?
Spoiler:
Grey Knights Battalion | 3 x Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight (Dreadfist, Dreadknight Teleporter, Gatling Psylancer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword), 3 x 5 Strike Squad (Falchions, Storm Bolters), 5 Interceptors (Falchions, Storm Bolters) |
Custodes Supreme Command | 3 x Shield Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike (Hurricane Bolter)|
Astra Militarum Battalion | 2 x Company Commander (Boltgun), 3 x Infantry Squad (Lasguns), Infantry Squad (Lasguns, Boltgun)
It's absolutely a GK list - the majority of the points are spent on GK units!?
Whilst the majority of the list is Grey Knights, having 600-650 points of a 1750 point list as different factions 100% makes it an Imperium list in my eyes. I'm also guessing that the Warlord wasn't a Grey Knight unit either, but i can't confirm that.
A pure list is a 100% pure list. A soup list is everything else.
It's a shame that the replays on twitch are paywalled, as i'd like to go back and see how he played the mission. Guessing he just had more board control overall for the missions.
BrianDavion wrote: those "40 pages" which you predict, based entirely on how many blood angels got, are almost all reprints of primaris units. once you eliminate that... they get the same content as everyone else.
No, they don't. Please stop pushing this ridiculous false narrative.
Marines get supplement-tier content.
Everyone else gets less.
We've seen this time and time again. The respective Chaos sub factions received less than BT in FnF. Tyranids did not get as many rules as BA in BoB.
but hey don't let the facts get in the way. Now do you have someone relevant to add to this thread or are you just trying to hijack the PA thread with anti-marine BS?
It seems to me that you're mistaking "facts" with "your opinion". Stating actual facts (that non-codex Marine factions receive less than codex Marines in all of the PA books) is not "anti-marine BS". You should stop getting so defensive and start thinking objectively.
Let's put this to the test:
Tyranids got:
Relics: 1 page
Stratagems: 2 pages
Hive fleet adaptations: 2 pages
Adaptive Physiology: 2 pages
Psychic powers: 1 page
= 8 pages of new core rules. Oddly enough that's the same number of new rules pages that White Scars or Raven Guard got in their 'supplement-tier content'.
BA got:
Relics: 2 pages
Stratagems: 3 pages
Psychic powers: 1 page
Warlord traits: 1 page
Litanies: 1 page
= 8 pages of new core rules
Flesh Tearers also recieved 3 pages of new rules that overlap with the above. These cannot be used by Blood Angels.
Finally there's a revised datasheet for Mephistion (which are also included in his assembly instructions and don't require a purchase of PA3), and Death Company Intercessors technically count as a new unit. So depending on your POV that's 9-10 pages of new rules for Blood Angels. Everything else was either directly reprinted from the last FAQ or consisted of revised datasheets to incorporate the FAQ changes, so already existed prior to PA3. So all Tyranids need is a alternate datasheet for an existing model kit to be on par with Blood Angels?
Means in other tournaments this "grey knight" army would drop even lower. Not to mention calling it grey knight army is stretch. Is any army using loyal 32 ig army then?
Sure. But that's just proves that other tournaments are less competitive as you need to compete in fewer aspects of the painted miniatures hobby, thus requiring less skills, being a less-rounded "athlete", etc.. to get to the top.
Is that army a Grey Knight army? Probably not, but that's a different debate (which the ITC and other tournament outfits also have every couple of years).
Or other tournaments aren't pay to win and measure your skill
Relics: 1 page
Stratagems: 2 pages
Hive fleet adaptations: 2 pages
Adaptive Physiology: 2 pages
Psychic powers: 1 page
= 8 pages of new core rules. Oddly enough that's the same number of new rules pages that White Scars or Raven Guard got in their 'supplement-tier content'.
BA got:
Relics: 2 pages
Stratagems: 3 pages
Psychic powers: 1 page
Warlord traits: 1 page
Litanies: 1 page
= 8 pages of new core rules
Flesh Tearers also recieved 3 pages of new rules that overlap with the above. These cannot be used by Blood Angels.
Finally there's a revised datasheet for Mephistion (which are also included in his assembly instructions and don't require a purchase of PA3), and Death Company Intercessors technically count as a new unit. So depending on your POV that's 9-10 pages of new rules for Blood Angels. Everything else was either directly reprinted from the last FAQ or consisted of revised datasheets to incorporate the FAQ changes, so already existed prior to PA3. So all Tyranids need is a alternate datasheet for an existing model kit to be on par with Blood Angels?
Why are you counting pages?
I said number of rules. BA received more RULES than Tyranids. You even highlighted the sentence in your quotation. Page counts aren't particularly useful when those pages can have any number of images taking up ridiculous amounts of space. It also doesn't take into account the fact that Nids must give up things to take their new things - eg - Hive Fleet Adaptions, Adaptive Physiology. What do BA give up for their rules?
You've also forgotten the page(s) BA received detailing their improved sub faction bonus it looks like, if that's your metric.
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BrianDavion wrote: and you should read the previews. they're told us Grey Knights are getting something called "masters of the warp" if they are mono codex. and 1k sons are getting rules for their cults they can take, if mono codex. in short, each is presumably getting relics, strats, warlord traits (because this is what everyone has gotten) and 1k sons and grey knights are getting a doctrine equivilant too.
I don't recall refuting this? Nor would I be surprised, GK and TS are, after all, still Marines.
Dark Angels are getting a ton of primaris stuff as well no doubt, but given that the rules for anything new to come out in 8th edition has been in the box, and we've been told the stuff is avaliable for DAs, SWs and BAs that hardly qualifies as new
New stuff doesn't qualify as new? Got it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kdash wrote: Whilst the majority of the list is Grey Knights, having 600-650 points of a 1750 point list as different factions 100% makes it an Imperium list in my eyes. I'm also guessing that the Warlord wasn't a Grey Knight unit either, but i can't confirm that.
A pure list is a 100% pure list. A soup list is everything else.
I completely agree, it is definitely an "Imperium" list but then if I were to further sub-categorise it I'd call it a "GK/Imperium soup" list. I certainly think it's primary GK.
GW got you guys again!. when 8th dropped an everything was in an index we all cheered-no more constant codex release- update after update for each new edition.
SInce this is supposed to be the final incarnation of the game.
I have not bought a book in years including all the supplements. why?
.I don't just play 8th
.I play 40K for fun
.I don't play ITC rules
.I only use CP for critical re-rolls not for stratagems(I never use them, so I don't even keep track of them anymore and good thing since it has turned into a super bloated system like formations in 7th)
.I don't CP farm
.I don't use the stupid cards that constantly change the objectives every turn for each player-preferring hard fixed objectives for both players.
.the only things I use when I play that are "special"-the generic captain re-roll 1s bubble, the salamanders chapter abilities-+2 strength on my warlord, single re-rolls per unit for hit/wound, negating ap-1 weapons, generic devastator doctrine and finally a single generic relic to give my warlord 5+ FNP
So all this debate about bloat, balance and the cost of buying all these books doesn't affect me at all. i have all the models i need to play my army in 8th I will gladly play against you if you want to use these things (except for ITC and the cards I won't play that game) however I will and have continued to play a more streamlined version of 8th while having fun doing it, if I can't beat you with how I fight on the tabletop (and those fickle dice gods) then that's on me......so far i have done just fine.
Let's say orks gets datasheets of the buggies they got with codex in pa6. You think orks should be cheering fos those new pages?
It'd be more like Orks being able to ally and soup with necrons, while Necrons gain new faction traits (just for allying with orks).
As it's models and units that are totally new to the faction, but already exist.
So what units ba got what they couldn't use before? Shadowspear box units they got with faq already. Seen them in use by blood angels for months so no those datasheets don't really count as new
GW got you guys again!. when 8th dropped an everything was in an index we all cheered-no more constant codex release- update after update for each new edition.
SInce this is supposed to be the final incarnation of the game.
I have not bought a book in years including all the supplements. why?
.I don't just play 8th
.I play 40K for fun
.I don't play ITC rules
.I only use CP for critical re-rolls not for stratagems(I never use them, so I don't even keep track of them anymore and good thing since it has turned into a super bloated system like formations in 7th)
.I don't CP farm
.I don't use the stupid cards that constantly change the objectives every turn for each player-preferring hard fixed objectives for both players.
.the only things I use when I play that are "special"-the generic captain re-roll 1s bubble, the salamanders chapter abilities-+2 strength on my warlord, single re-rolls per unit for hit/wound, negating ap-1 weapons, generic devastator doctrine and finally a single generic relic to give my warlord 5+ FNP
So all this debate about bloat, balance and the cost of buying all these books doesn't affect me at all. i have all the models i need to play my army in 8th I will gladly play against you if you want to use these things (except for ITC and the cards I won't play that game) however I will and have continued to play a more streamlined version of 8th while having fun doing it, if I can't beat you with how I fight on the tabletop (and those fickle dice gods) then that's on me......so far i have done just fine.
Wow did you write this while staring into a mirror? Been here for many years and this might be the most self indulgent post I’ve seen in a very long time.
GW got you guys again!. when 8th dropped an everything was in an index we all cheered-no more constant codex release- update after update for each new edition.
SInce this is supposed to be the final incarnation of the game.
I have not bought a book in years including all the supplements. why?
.I don't just play 8th
.I play 40K for fun
.I don't play ITC rules
.I only use CP for critical re-rolls not for stratagems(I never use them, so I don't even keep track of them anymore and good thing since it has turned into a super bloated system like formations in 7th)
.I don't CP farm
.I don't use the stupid cards that constantly change the objectives every turn for each player-preferring hard fixed objectives for both players.
.the only things I use when I play that are "special"-the generic captain re-roll 1s bubble, the salamanders chapter abilities-+2 strength on my warlord, single re-rolls per unit for hit/wound, negating ap-1 weapons, generic devastator doctrine and finally a single generic relic to give my warlord 5+ FNP
So all this debate about bloat, balance and the cost of buying all these books doesn't affect me at all. i have all the models i need to play my army in 8th I will gladly play against you if you want to use these things (except for ITC and the cards I won't play that game) however I will and have continued to play a more streamlined version of 8th while having fun doing it, if I can't beat you with how I fight on the tabletop (and those fickle dice gods) then that's on me......so far i have done just fine.
"Heh, you're all a bunch of silly children. Rule bloat? Broken rules? Not for me, I'm above that; except of course when I use some of the strongest rules in the game, but, well, ... I'm just that good."
tneva82 wrote: So what units ba got what they couldn't use before? Shadowspear box units they got with faq already. Seen them in use by blood angels for months so no those datasheets don't really count as new
I think it's more about the fact that on one tier here, you've got The Lesser Races, who've been getting
-Usually some kind of bonus thing, like each legion got 6 bonus relic/Wl trait/strat, and craftworlds got aspect powers, and nids got Bad Relics But You Can Put Them On Models Nid Players Care About. Drukhari didn't get gak, but hey.
And on another tier, you've got the two marine subfactions we've seen so far, who IGNORING ALL THE PRIMARIS REPRINTS, have gotten
-Redesigned, buffed chapter tactics.
This is fething huge. Marines, CSM, Admech, Daemons, GK, DA, BA, DW, Tsons, CWE , a bunch of codexes honestly were in the era when chapter tactics were...kinda low effort copy-pasted ass. If there was a -1 trait, it was always 100% the best one. A bunch would be total horsegak. Often, they would arbitrarily not work on vehicles (more on that later). Part of what people mean when they say "supplement tier" bonuses is that the army-wide rules that are supposed to reflect your chosen dudes got carefully massaged and buffed often massively for loyalist marines, and CSM who had...basically the exact same level of stuff, often even worse (See: Word Bearers, Night Lords) got diddly gak in that respect. Still the -1 to hit trait is always best. Still most of them are garbage. Same for CWE. Even though it would have been extremely easy to do alongside custom chapter traits.
-Chapter traits now work on vehicles
Bet you a shiny nickel that since CSM didn't get this, Tsons and GK will not get a chapter trait that works on their vehicles and they will not get their traits on vehicles. Everyone agreed with marine players that it was stupid that CTs didn't help vehicles. Now that marines have it, where is it on CSM, Tsons, DG, GK, GSC, Admech and I thiiink custodes? I'm not sure on them, but I think their land raiders don't get their trait.
-Doctrines+Super Doctrines
Rumor has it that Tsons and GK get something in this vein, but no non-soup bonuses for Chaos stuff (AKA the most commonly souped to hell macro-faction in the game) and Aeldari stuff (another faction where you commonly see the best units from CWE and Harlies stapled on to DE troops)
-6 warlord traits (3 if you're flesh tearers)
-6 Relics (well, 12 if you're blood angels/8 for flesh tearers)
-8 Stratagems
-BT got 6 chapter-specific litanies
-Special Master characters, with their own list of warlord traits and about 10 relics(?)
There's such a massive list of stuff you get if you're playing a loyalist marine faction I'm having trouble keeping track of it all. These books are essentially a supplement for whatever loyalist marine faction is in it + a bonus white dwarf article for anyone else in the book. I don't know if they'll be giving GK the full supplement suck-off but if they don't keep them as second class citizen marines I don't know if the book basically named after the Tsons is going to have ANY tsons rules content in it.
For reference, BT got 34 distinct new Chapter-specifi rules in F&F whereas the Chaos Legions got 27 or 28, depending on Legion. The difference is entirely explainable by the six chapter-specific litanies the BT got. One of the new BT rules is just a rule telling you you're not allowed to use other rules, but is included for transparency's sake ("Chosen Champion").
BT had 6 Warlord traits. Each Legion got 6 Warlord Traits.
BT had 8 Stratagems. Each Legion got 7 or 8 Stratagems.
BT had 5 Relics. Each Legion got 6 Relics.
BT had 6 unique Maelstrom Objectives. Each Legion got 6 Maelstrom Objectives.
BT got the Knights of Sigismund, the Legions got no equivalent.
BT got 6 unique Chaplain Litanies, the Legions didn't.
BT thus got ~20% more unique rules.
This is, of course, not taking into account the power level of said rules. Knights of Sigismund is much better than some of the Stratagems of the Legions, but some of the Stratagems of the Legions are far better (especially the Night Lords' no fallback Stratagem, which is strictly better while being half the cost!), and none of the Legions wasted space on telling you you're not allowed to use things ("Chosen Champion"). Getting more rules without taking into account the relative power level of said rules is an exercise in futility, but it is not incorrect to state that the Black Templars got more rules than any given Chaos Legion from a strictly numerical point of view.
Personally, I'd say the World Eaters are the ones with the most room to complain; they're also limited by a "no Psykers!" rule but didn't get an equivalent of the six Litanies the Templars got to compensate for the relative lack of rules compared to their peers.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: For reference, BT got 34 distinct new Chapter-specifi rules in F&F whereas the Chaos Legions got 27 or 28, depending on Legion. The difference is entirely explainable by the six chapter-specific litanies the BT got. One of the new BT rules is just a rule telling you you're not allowed to use other rules, but is included for transparency's sake ("Chosen Champion").
BT had 6 Warlord traits. Each Legion got 6 Warlord Traits.
BT had 8 Stratagems. Each Legion got 7 or 8 Stratagems.
BT had 5 Relics. Each Legion got 6 Relics.
BT had 6 unique Maelstrom Objectives. Each Legion got 6 Maelstrom Objectives.
BT got the Knights of Sigismund, the Legions got no equivalent.
BT got 6 unique Chaplain Litanies, the Legions didn't.
BT thus got ~20% more unique rules.
This is, of course, not taking into account the power level of said rules. Knights of Sigismund is much better than some of the Stratagems of the Legions, but some of the Stratagems of the Legions are far better (especially the Night Lords' no fallback Stratagem, which is strictly better while being half the cost!), and none of the Legions wasted space on telling you you're not allowed to use things ("Chosen Champion"). Getting more rules without taking into account the relative power level of said rules is an exercise in futility, but it is not incorrect to state that the Black Templars got more rules than any given Chaos Legion from a strictly numerical point of view.
Personally, I'd say the World Eaters are the ones with the most room to complain; they're also limited by a "no Psykers!" rule but didn't get an equivalent of the six Litanies the Templars got to compensate for the relative lack of rules compared to their peers.
Also, just casually two of BT's rules are a bonus effect added on to their chapter tactic and Doctrines, plus all those rules now applying to vehicles. So two blanket army-wide rules you get all the time on all of your everything and now you get them on vehicles too.
(pssst: THAT'S WHY IT DOESNT FEEL LIKE THE LEGIONS GOT AS MUCH. BECAUSE ALL THEIR gak IS STUFF YOU GET ONLY 1-2 OF OR HAVE TO SPEND CP ON, AND BTS GOT A HUGE ARMY-WIDE BOOST, DESPITE BEING NEARLY IDENTICAL UNITS BECAUSE THEYRE BOTH MARINES.)
As a DA player, I'll take that 40 pages.....cheers.
Although the usual Anti-Marine crew are back at it again, it's already been pointed out that the majority of those pages are official datasheets for units that they have had access to for months. I'm pretty sure the only new datahseet will be Lazarus, unless they give DA access to Centurions (since they mentioned them in the fluff WD article), but I doubt it.
And guess what....shock horror, it will probably be the same for the SW too when they come around.
I am interested to see what GKs get though. They don't need a ton to make them competitive (ish), they just need the right tweak. They should get a reduction in CPs for some of their strats though, hope that happens.
At least we shall see this week and get a full reveal at the weekend from online videos.
As for Chaos not getting the same treatment, heresy is it's own reward
I said number of rules. BA received more RULES than Tyranids. You even highlighted the sentence in your quotation. Page counts aren't particularly useful when those pages can have any number of images taking up ridiculous amounts of space.
What's your personal definition of a 'rule', though? The Iron Hands "The Flesh is Weak" trait has three distinct effects. Does that count as one rule, or three? I think most people would consider the new Sisters Acts of Faith ability as a single special rule, although it can be used in several different circumstances. Is each circumstance a 'rule'?
Counting pages is a perfectly sensible way to approximate what the volume of new content factions receive. Determining what constitutes a 'rule' can be far more subjective and dependent on circumstance. Unless GW start structuring game rules into legal-style clauses (for the record I hope they don't) then who has the 'most rules' will always depend on subjective interpretation.
Still, looking are some of the obvious equivalents the difference isn't a huge as your first post implied:
23 BA vs 17 Nid stratagems (other marine supplements typically get 16)
6 vs 7 psychic powers
6 warlord traits vs 10 adaptive physiologies
EDIT: Are the obscuration discipline & vanguard warlord traits here actually new content for the Blood Angels, or just reprinted from shadowspear? not sure
You accused BrianDavion of pushing a 'ridiculous false narrative' when he is demonstrably correct, and you're clearly pushing your own narrative on the volume of new marine content. Funnily enough if you'd argued about the equivalent quality of that content then we'd probably be in agreement, as there are some odd design decisions throughout the PA series that imply at least an unconscious bias (not just toward marines).
An Actual Englishman wrote: It also doesn't take into account the fact that Nids must give up things to take their new things - eg - Hive Fleet Adaptions, Adaptive Physiology. What do BA give up for their rules?
Nids can take Adaptive Physiology via stratagem too, they don't have to give up a warlord trait for it. Hive Fleet Adaptions are comparable to successor chapters and are subject to similar (although not identical) trade-offs; i.e. Flesh Tearers lose access to named units like Dante & Mephistion but can use BA rules with certain limitations. Tyranids lose rules linked to named Hive Fleets, but keep access to their special characters.
An Actual Englishman wrote: You've also forgotten the page(s) BA received detailing their improved sub faction bonus it looks like, if that's your metric.
I also skipped the page that defines what 'Tyranids units' are and how GSC interact with them. Technically new rules, but the waters get a bit muddy when pointing out things mixed in with recent FAQ changes or written to prevent future FAQ queries.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: For reference, BT got 34 distinct new Chapter-specifi rules in F&F whereas the Chaos Legions got 27 or 28, depending on Legion. The difference is entirely explainable by the six chapter-specific litanies the BT got. One of the new BT rules is just a rule telling you you're not allowed to use other rules, but is included for transparency's sake ("Chosen Champion").
BT had 6 Warlord traits. Each Legion got 6 Warlord Traits.
BT had 8 Stratagems. Each Legion got 7 or 8 Stratagems.
BT had 5 Relics. Each Legion got 6 Relics.
BT had 6 unique Maelstrom Objectives. Each Legion got 6 Maelstrom Objectives.
BT got the Knights of Sigismund, the Legions got no equivalent.
BT got 6 unique Chaplain Litanies, the Legions didn't.
BT thus got ~20% more unique rules.
This is, of course, not taking into account the power level of said rules. Knights of Sigismund is much better than some of the Stratagems of the Legions, but some of the Stratagems of the Legions are far better (especially the Night Lords' no fallback Stratagem, which is strictly better while being half the cost!), and none of the Legions wasted space on telling you you're not allowed to use things ("Chosen Champion"). Getting more rules without taking into account the relative power level of said rules is an exercise in futility, but it is not incorrect to state that the Black Templars got more rules than any given Chaos Legion from a strictly numerical point of view.
Personally, I'd say the World Eaters are the ones with the most room to complain; they're also limited by a "no Psykers!" rule but didn't get an equivalent of the six Litanies the Templars got to compensate for the relative lack of rules compared to their peers.
Also, just casually two of BT's rules are a bonus effect added on to their chapter tactic and Doctrines, plus all those rules now applying to vehicles. So two blanket army-wide rules you get all the time on all of your everything and now you get them on vehicles too.
(pssst: THAT'S WHY IT DOESNT FEEL LIKE THE LEGIONS GOT AS MUCH. BECAUSE ALL THEIR gak IS STUFF YOU GET ONLY 1-2 OF OR HAVE TO SPEND CP ON, AND BTS GOT A HUGE ARMY-WIDE BOOST, DESPITE BEING NEARLY IDENTICAL UNITS BECAUSE THEYRE BOTH MARINES.)
That was already the case in Codex: Space Marines. It's not a rule that's new to Faith & Fury. The comparison was on who got more stuff in Faith & Fury. No need to all-caps me.
GW got you guys again!. when 8th dropped an everything was in an index we all cheered-no more constant codex release- update after update for each new edition.
SInce this is supposed to be the final incarnation of the game.
I have not bought a book in years including all the supplements. why?
.I don't just play 8th
.I play 40K for fun
.I don't play ITC rules
.I only use CP for critical re-rolls not for stratagems(I never use them, so I don't even keep track of them anymore and good thing since it has turned into a super bloated system like formations in 7th)
.I don't CP farm
.I don't use the stupid cards that constantly change the objectives every turn for each player-preferring hard fixed objectives for both players.
.the only things I use when I play that are "special"-the generic captain re-roll 1s bubble, the salamanders chapter abilities-+2 strength on my warlord, single re-rolls per unit for hit/wound, negating ap-1 weapons, generic devastator doctrine and finally a single generic relic to give my warlord 5+ FNP
So all this debate about bloat, balance and the cost of buying all these books doesn't affect me at all. i have all the models i need to play my army in 8th I will gladly play against you if you want to use these things (except for ITC and the cards I won't play that game) however I will and have continued to play a more streamlined version of 8th while having fun doing it, if I can't beat you with how I fight on the tabletop (and those fickle dice gods) then that's on me......so far i have done just fine.
"Heh, you're all a bunch of silly children. Rule bloat? Broken rules? Not for me, I'm above that; except of course when I use some of the strongest rules in the game, but, well, ... I'm just that good."
except I am not a bandwagon jumper I have used salamanders since 5th edition
everything I use save the 3 salamanders specific chapter traits (one of which is very situational since my warlord is a techmarine who doesn't want to get into CC) are generic and available for every single space marine chapter.
by that margin everybody using stratagems+ their chapter specific traits + chapter specific relics+ all the generic abilities actual are using stronger rules than me.
the humor is all the concern for all these things that GW does with rules that creates angst in the community when it really doesn't need to.
you don't have to use stratagems/deck build, you don't have to CP farm, you don't have to use fan rules (ITC) to actually play and have an enjoyable game.
And you don't have to buy all the books, hell I ran without the salamander special traits until another salamander player started playing at the FLGS and got me to start using them.
last 3 games I player-
.VS tyranids with nobody using stratagems or CP-nids won taking more objectives
.VS black Templar and all the stratagems he could throw at me-salamanders won
.VS DKOK very bloody fight with high casualties salamanders squeezed out a win.
bullyboy wrote: As a DA player, I'll take that 40 pages.....cheers.
Although the usual Anti-Marine crew are back at it again, it's already been pointed out that the majority of those pages are official datasheets for units that they have had access to for months. I'm pretty sure the only new datahseet will be Lazarus, unless they give DA access to Centurions (since they mentioned them in the fluff WD article), but I doubt it.
And guess what....shock horror, it will probably be the same for the SW too when they come around.
I am interested to see what GKs get though. They don't need a ton to make them competitive (ish), they just need the right tweak. They should get a reduction in CPs for some of their strats though, hope that happens.
At least we shall see this week and get a full reveal at the weekend from online videos.
As for Chaos not getting the same treatment, heresy is it's own reward
Dark Angels player states he likes his faction getting super special treatment - wow thats wierd... Yeah its a been a few months since they were last and extensively featured in WD....
Is a so called Campaign book the best place to cram in 40 pages of ever so slightly different and mostly reprinted rules? Its a Dark Angels Supplement with some other stuff thrown in as it was for Blood Angels and likely will be Space Wolves and Deathwatch.
Having an actual campaign story and related elements taking up the same space in a Campaign book might have been a more interesting.....than Marine supplement number.....
So, I'm playing nids and I've decided to use the new custom hive fleet tactics they premiered in BoB. I'm assuming like with Codex: Definitely The Same Support Everybody Else Gets, I get to choose a hive fleet to be an 'offshoot' of, and I get to get the unique stratagems, relics, wl traits etc unique to that hive fleet, right?
Oh, you say I only get to use 11 of those new stratagems, and none of the new psychic powers?
Oh, you say any given Tyranid Hive Fleet gets 12 strats, Adaptive Physiology, 1 Wl trait, 1 power, and 1 relic? But that makes it seem like the blood angels got about twice as much stuff, and I know that's not true.
Is a so called Campaign book the best place to cram in 40 pages of ever so slightly different and mostly reprinted rules?
Until GW get around to modernising their rules development & distribution approach then this is probably the Least Bad™ way to do it. Brings each faction in line with their recent online-only updates alongside their new content. Personally I'd rather have 20 updated datasheets to look at during a game than a couple of FAQ pages that say "replace all instances of X with Y on pages 50 through 65".
the_scotsman wrote: But that makes it seem like the blood angels got about twice as much stuff, and I know that's not true.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: For reference, BT got 34 distinct new Chapter-specifi rules in F&F whereas the Chaos Legions got 27 or 28, depending on Legion. The difference is entirely explainable by the six chapter-specific litanies the BT got. One of the new BT rules is just a rule telling you you're not allowed to use other rules, but is included for transparency's sake ("Chosen Champion").
BT had 6 Warlord traits. Each Legion got 6 Warlord Traits.
BT had 8 Stratagems. Each Legion got 7 or 8 Stratagems.
BT had 5 Relics. Each Legion got 6 Relics.
BT had 6 unique Maelstrom Objectives. Each Legion got 6 Maelstrom Objectives.
BT got the Knights of Sigismund, the Legions got no equivalent.
BT got 6 unique Chaplain Litanies, the Legions didn't.
BT thus got ~20% more unique rules.
This is, of course, not taking into account the power level of said rules. Knights of Sigismund is much better than some of the Stratagems of the Legions, but some of the Stratagems of the Legions are far better (especially the Night Lords' no fallback Stratagem, which is strictly better while being half the cost!), and none of the Legions wasted space on telling you you're not allowed to use things ("Chosen Champion"). Getting more rules without taking into account the relative power level of said rules is an exercise in futility, but it is not incorrect to state that the Black Templars got more rules than any given Chaos Legion from a strictly numerical point of view.
Personally, I'd say the World Eaters are the ones with the most room to complain; they're also limited by a "no Psykers!" rule but didn't get an equivalent of the six Litanies the Templars got to compensate for the relative lack of rules compared to their peers.
Also, just casually two of BT's rules are a bonus effect added on to their chapter tactic and Doctrines, plus all those rules now applying to vehicles. So two blanket army-wide rules you get all the time on all of your everything and now you get them on vehicles too.
(pssst: THAT'S WHY IT DOESNT FEEL LIKE THE LEGIONS GOT AS MUCH. BECAUSE ALL THEIR gak IS STUFF YOU GET ONLY 1-2 OF OR HAVE TO SPEND CP ON, AND BTS GOT A HUGE ARMY-WIDE BOOST, DESPITE BEING NEARLY IDENTICAL UNITS BECAUSE THEYRE BOTH MARINES.)
That was already the case in Codex: Space Marines. It's not a rule that's new to Faith & Fury. The comparison was on who got more stuff in Faith & Fury. No need to all-caps me.
I think what really needs to be hammered home here is that Black Templars are a single chapter, equivelant to a single legion, yet your own summary proves they got more than 7 whole legions combined.
Blood Angels got more, at least as much as, 6 whole Hive Fleets combined.
What? They absolutely didn't get more than 7 Legions combined. Each Legion got between 27 and 28 unique new rules, Black Templars got 34. Two times 27 is 54, which is well ahead of 34, and that's with 5 more Legions to go. Templars got ~20% more rules than any individual Legion, but combined it's not even a contest (and indeed shouldn't be, since it's 7 vs. 1).
And on another tier, you've got the two marine subfactions we've seen so far, who IGNORING ALL THE PRIMARIS REPRINTS, have gotten
-Redesigned, buffed chapter tactics.
This is fething huge. Marines, CSM, Admech, Daemons, GK, DA, BA, DW, Tsons, CWE , a bunch of codexes honestly were in the era when chapter tactics were...kinda low effort copy-pasted ass. If there was a -1 trait, it was always 100% the best one. A bunch would be total horsegak. Often, they would arbitrarily not work on vehicles (more on that later). Part of what people mean when they say "supplement tier" bonuses is that the army-wide rules that are supposed to reflect your chosen dudes got carefully massaged and buffed often massively for loyalist marines, and CSM who had...basically the exact same level of stuff, often even worse (See: Word Bearers, Night Lords) got diddly gak in that respect. Still the -1 to hit trait is always best. Still most of them are garbage. Same for CWE. Even though it would have been extremely easy to do alongside custom chapter traits.
-Chapter traits now work on vehicles
Bet you a shiny nickel that since CSM didn't get this, Tsons and GK will not get a chapter trait that works on their vehicles and they will not get their traits on vehicles. Everyone agreed with marine players that it was stupid that CTs didn't help vehicles. Now that marines have it, where is it on CSM, Tsons, DG, GK, GSC, Admech and I thiiink custodes? I'm not sure on them, but I think their land raiders don't get their trait.
This. This explains exactly all the hate Marines are getting, 3-4 constant passive effects that affect you WHOLE army are MUCH better then Stratagems, which can be very powerful yes, but you can not realistically use more then 2-3 a game as they tend to cost 2-3CP each, and you'll always need to spend a whole lot on clutch re-rolls and eventually on prepared positions which will leave you with 4/6 CP for strats, then when you're out that's it no more tricks, while the passive effects are still there kicking you in the teeth.
That's why the "Supplement tier" rules every non-SM army is getting doesn't really feel "Supplement tier" at all, since everything is pay-locked behind a pretty limited resource.
Nah, yall are right, it makes total sense for gw to be using this campaign book series to reprint the same set of primaris datasheets 4 times, and only specifically loyalist space marines should get a bonus for not taking allies, since they're the only faction that has seen annoying soulless soup armies supplanting fluffy lists. Also, theyre the only ones who need chapter traits on vehicles or whose chapter traits are outdated in design.
Now if youll excuse me, I have to pack up my tournament list, its ahriman+3 daemon princes of tzeentch and for my troops I took poxwalkers because tsons troops and tanks dont get chapter tactics. Id use plague marines but their chapter tactic got obsoleted with bolter discipline pretty much entirely.
People, we are drifting into the marine debate again... which has been explicitly banned from this thread by the mods under the threat of exterminatus.
Of all the PA narratives, this is far and away the best one. We get to see how Tau will interact with Death Guard and GSC, that's awesome!
I can't tell you how refreshing it is to have a narrative where every faction involved doesn't know everything about every other faction. The "narrative omnipotence" of space marines, eldar and chaos marines has gotten so old.
It sounds like the GSC are going to be emerging from the ranks of gue-vesa. While that's interesting, it's ultimately limited IMO because I know GW is never going to give any rules support for something that doesn't have models.
Proper GSC are going to always have to be ex-miners, because the official models for GSC are miners, with some limited bones thrown in for Brood Brothers as long as you're OK with your not-guardsmen being regular guardsmen with no regiment bonuses.
So, it'd be cool to see GSC rules that allow your cult to be from the various worlds of the imperium - industrial worlds, forge worlds, T'au axiliaries (Where you'd think GS cults and rogue psykers would be running absolutely rampant), hive worlds with gang weaponry, guard regiments...but I doubt we'll ever see anything like that. That's too much like a ruleset that embraces conversions and player creativity.
I know that they're technically SM but I think between Sisters' Sacred Rites and now GK's "Tides" we can reasonably believe that every faction moving forward will get some army-wide iteration of Doctrines.
I don't think anyone doubted it, but I think this cements it.
Nah Man Pichu wrote: I know that they're technically SM but I think between Sisters' Sacred Rites and now GK's "Tides" we can reasonably believe that every faction moving forward will get some army-wide iteration of Doctrines.
I don't think anyone doubted it, but I think this cements it.
I'd like to hope so. It's just bizarre that they've chosen not to implement it for CSM or any xenos faction so far.
So, it'd be cool to see GSC rules that allow your cult to be from the various worlds of the imperium - industrial worlds, forge worlds, T'au axiliaries (Where you'd think GS cults and rogue psykers would be running absolutely rampant), hive worlds with gang weaponry, guard regiments...but I doubt we'll ever see anything like that. That's too much like a ruleset that embraces conversions and player creativity.
I agree, when GW doesn't fulfill my wishlisting for rules and models it's their own lack of player engagement and creativity. For shame!
Nah Man Pichu wrote: I know that they're technically SM but I think between Sisters' Sacred Rites and now GK's "Tides" we can reasonably believe that every faction moving forward will get some army-wide iteration of Doctrines.
I don't think anyone doubted it, but I think this cements it.
I'd like to hope so. It's just bizarre that they've chosen not to implement it for CSM or any xenos faction so far.
Would you not call Tyranid's adaptations or whatever they were called a version of that? The ones that gave boosts to individual units? (Full disclosure I have spent no time reading up on them so I'm speaking from ignorance, feel free to correct me)
Regarding Chaos I genuinely think we'll see that in the future, Carl from the Independent Characters seems to think so and while he's pretty good about not revealing secrets he's not supposed to, he usually has a decent finger on the pulse.
Tentatively, this *might* be exactly what the doctor ordered for GK.
Tides of Everything in Cover is definitely what you want to start the game with...aaaalmost all the time, and an extra psychic discipline is 100% necessary. I also like that there are defensive and support options, instead of just the balls-to-the-wall table by turn 3 all offense nonsense that doctrines provide.
If anything, I think Everything in Cover and Wall of Smites might be a little OP compared to the lackluster +1d on infantry psi weaponry and RR 1s in melee. But hey, maybe if you construct your army around it psilencer spam with D3+1D or 2D psycannons would be strong.
RR 1s in melee seems like a stronk turn 2/3 cleanup option.
If the strats are good and they get a redesigned chapter tactic+CTs on vehicles, GKs might be back baby.
Nah Man Pichu wrote: I know that they're technically SM but I think between Sisters' Sacred Rites and now GK's "Tides" we can reasonably believe that every faction moving forward will get some army-wide iteration of Doctrines.
I don't think anyone doubted it, but I think this cements it.
Nah.
No Eldar, nor Nids got Doctrine-Equivalents.
And every time the (fake-)rumour industry get’s lost in predicting GW patterns, they just look stupid: Codex: Nurgle Daemonkin inc, because there was a Khorne one. Plastic Noise Marines inc, because there were Rubrics and Plaguemarines. 2 Primarchs a year, because there were 2 Primarchs in previous years. New HH box set X vs Y because a alte and Prospero were a thing, etc..
Pattern-based guesses is literally the “insider source” BoLS keeps referencing and it’s always wrong.
Nah Man Pichu wrote: I know that they're technically SM but I think between Sisters' Sacred Rites and now GK's "Tides" we can reasonably believe that every faction moving forward will get some army-wide iteration of Doctrines.
I don't think anyone doubted it, but I think this cements it.
Nah.
No Eldar, nor Nids got Doctrine-Equivalents.
And every time the (fake-)rumour industry get’s lost in predicting GW patterns, they just look stupid: Codex: Nurgle Daemonkin inc, because there was a Khorne one. Plastic Noise Marines inc, because there were Rubrics and Plaguemarines. 2 Primarchs a year, because there were 2 Primarchs in previous years. New HH box set X vs Y because a alte and Prospero were a thing, etc..
Pattern-based guesses is literally the “insider source” BoLS keeps referencing and it’s always wrong.
They also didn't get fullup codices. Psychic Awakening is, despite people continually insisting, not updating our codices. It's adding extraneous stuff.
And every time the (fake-)rumour industry get’s lost in predicting GW patterns, they just look stupid: Codex: Nurgle Daemonkin inc, because there was a Khorne one. Plastic Noise Marines inc, because there were Rubrics and Plaguemarines. 2 Primarchs a year, because there were 2 Primarchs in previous years. New HH box set X vs Y because a alte and Prospero were a thing, etc..
Pattern-based guesses is literally the “insider source” BoLS keeps referencing and it’s always wrong.
And on the flipside, there were people insisting that Grey Knights wouldn't get a "Doctrines" style system like this.
You're right that the "rumor industry" tends to look stupid though.
So, it'd be cool to see GSC rules that allow your cult to be from the various worlds of the imperium - industrial worlds, forge worlds, T'au axiliaries (Where you'd think GS cults and rogue psykers would be running absolutely rampant), hive worlds with gang weaponry, guard regiments...but I doubt we'll ever see anything like that. That's too much like a ruleset that embraces conversions and player creativity.
I agree, when GW doesn't fulfill my wishlisting for rules and models it's their own lack of player engagement and creativity. For shame!
Nah Man Pichu wrote: I know that they're technically SM but I think between Sisters' Sacred Rites and now GK's "Tides" we can reasonably believe that every faction moving forward will get some army-wide iteration of Doctrines.
I don't think anyone doubted it, but I think this cements it.
I'd like to hope so. It's just bizarre that they've chosen not to implement it for CSM or any xenos faction so far.
Would you not call Tyranid's adaptations or whatever they were called a version of that? The ones that gave boosts to individual units? (Full disclosure I have spent no time reading up on them so I'm speaking from ignorance, feel free to correct me)
Regarding Chaos I genuinely think we'll see that in the future, Carl from the Independent Characters seems to think so and while he's pretty good about not revealing secrets he's not supposed to, he usually has a decent finger on the pulse.
I'm just saddened by the fact that the game is so limited by the actual builds of the models that GW produces. GW's GSC models are a mining colony, therefore all GSC must be miners, despite their fluff placing them in every layer of imperial society.
The adaptive biologies are replacements for relics. They affect a single unit (or big monster) and you exchange your relic for it. It isn't a doctrine, any way you slice it.
Eldar I can understand not needing doctrines - they're so competitive already and people already take them as pure lists. It'd be cool to have a bonus to having a pure Drukhari army using only one of the sub-sub-factions, because they're so restrictive. Nobody takes non-soup drukhari lists.
For Chaos, it'd be cool if it were tied to having a full God list. It does seem to be happening at some point, if Tsons are getting a thing.
I just hope we don't end up with all xenos not getting one because they can't take allies in the first place, so we have to give armies who COULD take allies a bonus XD.
On top of all of that, the Grey Knights have a completely new set of litanies for their Chaplains. Used at the right time, these Litanies of Purity can swing a battle in your favour.
Huh. Shows how much attention I pay to GK. I didn't even know they had chaplains. But why does the store link they have go to the Primaris Chaplain?
I just hope we don't end up with all xenos not getting one because they can't take allies in the first place, so we have to give armies who COULD take allies a bonus XD.
Here's a question, and I'm sorry because it's definitely a bit doomy and gloomy.
It seems these doctrine equivalents are specifically to reward mono-faction builds.
Are we less likely to see them on xenos because they have soup armies far less often?
Idk what the tourney scene is like so maybe that's a thing, just wondering out loud.
I just hope we don't end up with all xenos not getting one because they can't take allies in the first place, so we have to give armies who COULD take allies a bonus XD.
Here's a question, and I'm sorry because it's definitely a bit doomy and gloomy.
It seems these doctrine equivalents are specifically to reward mono-faction builds.
Are we less likely to see them on xenos because they have soup armies far less often?
Idk what the tourney scene is like so maybe that's a thing, just wondering out loud.
That's a valid question, although Orks, Necrons and Tau are the only factions with no allies. You'd expect them to just have marginally better rules rather than something spelling it out.
They also didn't get fullup codices. Psychic Awakening is, despite people continually insisting, not updating our codices. It's adding extraneous stuff.
Well, the prediction was made in large part on Blood Angels and now Grey Knights getting Doctrine-equivalents in ... drum rolls ... Psychic Awakening.
Also, there is no second wave or 8.5 series of Codexes for everyone. Marines got an update, but there is no pattern. It’s just a one-off alongside loads of new models. But there is no “second generation” of Codexes for everyone. There is no “new” game-strength level for which Nu-Marines are somehow the first entry instead of being simply a game-writers screw-up.
PA is the best most armies can hope for until 9th.
They also didn't get fullup codices. Psychic Awakening is, despite people continually insisting, not updating our codices. It's adding extraneous stuff.
Well, the prediction was made in large part on Blood Angels and now Grey Knights getting Doctrine-equivalents in ... drum rolls ... Psychic Awakening.
Also, there is no second wave or 8.5 series of Codexes for everyone. Marines got an update, but there is no pattern. It’s just a one-off alongside loads of new models. But there is no “second generation” of Codexes for everyone. There is no “new” game-strength level for which Nu-Marines are somehow the first entry instead of being simply a game-writers screw-up.
PA is the best most armies can hope for until 9th.
Yeah I was beating that "it's not a codex" drum for a while, but I'll go ahead and say I was wrong, there's definitely some more expansive rules releases for some factions and not others.
That being said these are all "Space Marine" subfactions, so they're just being caught up to the parent codex. That's my line and I'm sticking unreasonably to it.
Honestly I think 9th's right around the corner. Might even be announced at Adepticon. SO we might be seeing newer better codexes sooner than you think.
I just hope we don't end up with all xenos not getting one because they can't take allies in the first place, so we have to give armies who COULD take allies a bonus XD.
Here's a question, and I'm sorry because it's definitely a bit doomy and gloomy.
It seems these doctrine equivalents are specifically to reward mono-faction builds.
Are we less likely to see them on xenos because they have soup armies far less often?
Idk what the tourney scene is like so maybe that's a thing, just wondering out loud.
I mean...no. Pretty much all armies that have access to allies have been using them except for in those instances where the only allies available (GSC in the Index post-tactical reserves rule while Nids had their codex, for example, or Ynnari pre-codexes) were strictly worse in every way than one other faction.
Most competitive aeldari lists use allies. Heck most Necron, Tau and Ork competitive lists use allies, by mixing subfactions to get the best rules. You know how Doctrines were supposed to be a fix for that too?
In my relatively casual club it's a different story. There are I think 2 regular players who use any allies at all, and mixing subfactions is rare. Most people just played with their chosen subfaction before doctrines, and after doctrines the only thing that happened was a massive buff to marines that drove nearly everyone not playing marines out.
I hope they come back. The two SOB players did, after they finally got a functional codex. So, hopefully we see Tsons and GK again after this update.
I just hope we don't end up with all xenos not getting one because they can't take allies in the first place, so we have to give armies who COULD take allies a bonus XD.
Here's a question, and I'm sorry because it's definitely a bit doomy and gloomy.
It seems these doctrine equivalents are specifically to reward mono-faction builds.
Are we less likely to see them on xenos because they have soup armies far less often?
Idk what the tourney scene is like so maybe that's a thing, just wondering out loud.
I mean...no. Pretty much all armies that have access to allies have been using them except for in those instances where the only allies available (GSC in the Index post-tactical reserves rule while Nids had their codex, for example, or Ynnari pre-codexes) were strictly worse in every way than one other faction.
Most competitive aeldari lists use allies. Heck most Necron, Tau and Ork competitive lists use allies, by mixing subfactions to get the best rules. You know how Doctrines were supposed to be a fix for that too?
I was under the impression that we had in fact seen more mono-faction SM lists in the tourneys. So wouldn't that be considered a fix?
The adaptive biologies are replacements for relics. They affect a single unit (or big monster) and you exchange your relic for it. It isn't a doctrine, any way you slice it.
I am sorry to say that you're wrong. They're replacements for warlord traits. You still get your relics, but you trade your warlord trait to use these new rules, which is actually a good thing.
PA is definitely not a codex update for all non marine armies. We know that the new codici are defined by the anti soup buffs, and no non-marine faction in PA got it.
The adaptive biologies are replacements for relics. They affect a single unit (or big monster) and you exchange your relic for it. It isn't a doctrine, any way you slice it.
I am sorry to say that you're wrong. They're replacements for warlord traits. You still get your relics, but you trade your warlord trait to use these new rules, which is actually a good thing.
The adaptive biologies are replacements for relics. They affect a single unit (or big monster) and you exchange your relic for it. It isn't a doctrine, any way you slice it.
I am sorry to say that you're wrong. They're replacements for warlord traits. You still get your relics, but you trade your warlord trait to use these new rules, which is actually a good thing.
Yeah, you're right - I had that mixed up. One of the two "you get one" things. Not a doctrine.
I just hope we don't end up with all xenos not getting one because they can't take allies in the first place, so we have to give armies who COULD take allies a bonus XD.
Here's a question, and I'm sorry because it's definitely a bit doomy and gloomy.
It seems these doctrine equivalents are specifically to reward mono-faction builds.
Are we less likely to see them on xenos because they have soup armies far less often?
Idk what the tourney scene is like so maybe that's a thing, just wondering out loud.
I mean...no. Pretty much all armies that have access to allies have been using them except for in those instances where the only allies available (GSC in the Index post-tactical reserves rule while Nids had their codex, for example, or Ynnari pre-codexes) were strictly worse in every way than one other faction.
Most competitive aeldari lists use allies. Heck most Necron, Tau and Ork competitive lists use allies, by mixing subfactions to get the best rules. You know how Doctrines were supposed to be a fix for that too?
I was under the impression that we had in fact seen more mono-faction SM lists in the tourneys. So wouldn't that be considered a fix?
Sure. If soup is a problem, monofaction bonuses appear to have been a solution.
They were also a solution to seeing any faction other than marines Tau and Eldar, so maybe not the best solution possible?
Again: I'm hopeful that if all the factions get mono-bonuses, we'll be back in the fairly balanced state we were in just with less soup lists. That'd be great. But I do find it real weird that the faction that most got souped to hell (CSM) got no bonus, and the marine faction that most got souped (Blood Angels) got an allowance to be taken with other marine allies.
If we start to see GKDA and Tsons after this update, it'll be the best PA book yet, by far.
And please, please, I'm begging you GW, everyone understood how much it sucked that 33% of the marine codex units could not have chapter tactics, we all agreed it needed to be fixed. PLEASE do the same thing for GSC.
Non-character units in the GSC codex: 13
Non-character units that can use their chapter tactics: 5
Yeah I was beating that "it's not a codex" drum for a while, but I'll go ahead and say I was wrong, there's definitely some more expansive rules releases for some factions and not others.
That being said these are all "Space Marine" subfactions, so they're just being caught up to the parent codex. That's my line and I'm sticking unreasonably to it.
Honestly I think 9th's right around the corner. Might even be announced at Adepticon. SO we might be seeing newer better codexes sooner than you think.
Agreed. I also think that for some of these factions some of these PA rules are beta versions of what we'll get in updated 9E codexes, while others will be a much longer-term thing. Hypothetically speaking, Craftworlds could see a revised codex in 8-10 months while BA keep using these rules for 2-3 years. It'll depend on who GW have new models in development for.
Spoletta wrote: PA is definitely not a codex update for all non marine armies. We know that the new codici are defined by the anti soup buffs, and no non-marine faction in PA got it.
How do you “know”.
There are no new Codexes.
If there were, it’s improbable they’d all have a doctrines-mono-factions-equivalent.
It’s a random one-off thing GW did for Marines to go along with the new model range. That’s it. The end.
The adaptive biologies are replacements for relics. They affect a single unit (or big monster) and you exchange your relic for it. It isn't a doctrine, any way you slice it.
I am sorry to say that you're wrong. They're replacements for warlord traits. You still get your relics, but you trade your warlord trait to use these new rules, which is actually a good thing.
Well then that makes me sad.
To clarify, you can:
Use one adaptive physiology instead of a warlord trait for free
Use one adaptive physiology and a warlord trait for 1 CP
Use two adaptive physiologies for 1 CP
Which is still cool because Tyranid codex warlord traits are largely ass, and adaptive physiologies are pretty good.
Spoletta wrote: PA is definitely not a codex update for all non marine armies. We know that the new codici are defined by the anti soup buffs, and no non-marine faction in PA got it.
How do you “know”.
There are no new Codexes.
If there were, it’s improbable they’d all have a doctrines-mono-factions-equivalent.
It’s a random one-off thing GW did for Marines to go along with the new model range. That’s it. The end.
And sisters.
And grey knights.
And thousand sons.
They're all different rules, but they're still army-wide bonuses you get on top of chapter tactics for selecting only one faction and only one <subfaction> for your whole army.
Yeah I was beating that "it's not a codex" drum for a while, but I'll go ahead and say I was wrong, there's definitely some more expansive rules releases for some factions and not others.
That being said these are all "Space Marine" subfactions, so they're just being caught up to the parent codex. That's my line and I'm sticking unreasonably to it.
Honestly I think 9th's right around the corner. Might even be announced at Adepticon. SO we might be seeing newer better codexes sooner than you think.
Agreed. I also think that for some of these factions some of these PA rules are beta versions of what we'll get in updated 9E codexes, while others will be a much longer-term thing. Hypothetically speaking, Craftworlds could see a revised codex in 8-10 months while BA keep using these rules for 2-3 years. It'll depend on who GW have new models in development for.
I keep thinking that to myself. Some have theorized the SM codex is the first of 9th edition's, or at least "9th compatible".
Which means in like 2-3 years it'll come back around and we'll all be complaining about how bad SM are and how badly they've got the "early codex syndrome"
Spoletta wrote: PA is definitely not a codex update for all non marine armies. We know that the new codici are defined by the anti soup buffs, and no non-marine faction in PA got it.
How do you “know”.
There are no new Codexes.
If there were, it’s improbable they’d all have a doctrines-mono-factions-equivalent.
It’s a random one-off thing GW did for Marines to go along with the new model range. That’s it. The end.
And sisters.
And grey knights.
And thousand sons.
They're all different rules, but they're still army-wide bonuses you get on top of chapter tactics for selecting only one faction and only one <subfaction> for your whole army.
In before "but they all wear power armour so they're just marines".
I'm not a GK player but their changes seem a pretty decent buff tbh, permanent cover with -1 to hit is nice.
I really liked that story. It does a really good job at showing what a terror Death Guard are without making the T'au seem incompetent, a rare thing in WH40k lore.
Jidmah wrote: I really liked that story. It does a really good job at showing what a terror Death Guard are without making the T'au seem incompetent, a rare thing in WH40k lore.
Almost a reasonable person's reaction if they have no real idea what Chaos is or what it's capable of.
In a lot of ways the Tau are almost the audience stand-in, I love it.
Dudeface wrote: I'm not a GK player but their changes seem a pretty decent buff tbh, permanent cover with -1 to hit is nice.
I'm a GK player, and i feel the same way about these buffs as i did every other marine update. SMs were a total joke before the new codices, and they totally deserved it.
I think people are underestimating how good that S8 2MDG cannon is going to be for taking out, well, anything.
Spoletta wrote: PA is definitely not a codex update for all non marine armies. We know that the new codici are defined by the anti soup buffs, and no non-marine faction in PA got it.
How do you “know”.
There are no new Codexes.
If there were, it’s improbable they’d all have a doctrines-mono-factions-equivalent.
It’s a random one-off thing GW did for Marines to go along with the new model range. That’s it. The end.
And sisters.
And grey knights.
And thousand sons.
They're all different rules, but they're still army-wide bonuses you get on top of chapter tactics for selecting only one faction and only one <subfaction> for your whole army.
In before "but they all wear power armour so they're just marines".
I'm not a GK player but their changes seem a pretty decent buff tbh, permanent cover with -1 to hit is nice.
It's not permanent -1 to hit, it gives them cover in the open, and -1 to hit if they're on terrain (ie if they would already have cover).
Honestly, it seems really really good. The only thing that could ruin it is if the swapper spell is really tough to cast, like a WC8 or something (which GK would have to roll a 7 for). You need it to be a super reliable swap from turn to turn, because in most games depending on your army setup it's gonna be
turn 1: Sneaky Knights
Turn 2: Stabby Knights/Shooty Special Gun Knights/Smiteyknights
Turn 3: Swap to whatever you need, probably either Stabby Knights or back to Sneaky Knights to close out the game.
Dudeface wrote: I'm not a GK player but their changes seem a pretty decent buff tbh, permanent cover with -1 to hit is nice.
I'm a GK player, and i feel the same way about these buffs as i did every other marine update. SMs were a total joke before the new codices, and they totally deserved it.
I think people are underestimating how good that S8 2MDG cannon is going to be for taking out, well, anything.
I think it depends on just what your army looks like. A typical current GK list with 3x dreadknights, draigo and a paladin squad is definitely going to go for the melee one. A MSU spam list is going to get mileage from damage 2 smites. And a list with tons of psi weapons is definitely gonna want the +damage psi guns.
Are incinerators psiguns too? or just cannons/lencers? I assume they're not. Poor incinerators, redheaded stepchild since 8th dropped lol.
Honestly I think 9th's right around the corner. Might even be announced at Adepticon. SO we might be seeing newer better codexes sooner than you think.
So has GW finally thrown in the towel? I thought 8th was supposed to be the final edition/incarnation of 40K and "we are just going to keep tweaking 8th every year and not make any new editions"
or is 9th supposed to be 0.8.25 like some video game update?
Interesting. You do have to take a Brother-Captain if you want to use a squad of purifiers in this way, though.
MORE THAN 3"
Purifiers have a 3" smite.
Same as the whole "9" range weapon can't hit something after deep strike."
I don't think it works anyway. The Dynamic Insertion strategem only works on a unit that has been set-up using the Teleport Strike ability.
A unit of Purifiers set-up using the Teleportarium strategem isn't being set up using the Teleport Strike ability and isn't a valid target for Dynamic Insertion.
Interesting. You do have to take a Brother-Captain if you want to use a squad of purifiers in this way, though.
MORE THAN 3"
Purifiers have a 3" smite.
Same as the whole "9" range weapon can't hit something after deep strike."
I don't think it works anyway. The Dynamic Insertion strategem only works on a unit that has been set-up using the Teleport Strike ability.
A unit of Purifiers set-up using the Teleportarium strategem isn't being set up using the Teleport Strike ability and isn't a valid target for Dynamic Insertion.
Ah, yep. You are correct there. Hmm. So it's pretty much just a "so you say you took Incinerators" stratagem. That's pretty weak tbh.
sadly the same is true for Purgation Squad so the 2 ideal targets for that stratagem are some of the only ones in our codex that cant be affected by it (as of yet)
Interesting. You do have to take a Brother-Captain if you want to use a squad of purifiers in this way, though.
MORE THAN 3"
Purifiers have a 3" smite.
Same as the whole "9" range weapon can't hit something after deep strike."
I don't think it works anyway. The Dynamic Insertion strategem only works on a unit that has been set-up using the Teleport Strike ability.
A unit of Purifiers set-up using the Teleportarium strategem isn't being set up using the Teleport Strike ability and isn't a valid target for Dynamic Insertion.
so i guess the question would be what unit is a good target for this strat.
I'm not sitting a squad of paladins with 4 flamers next to my enemy gunline without an option to tag their tanks - that´s just asking for them to be obliterated (ill take my chances with a FTTF reroll charge of 9")
Might be situationaly useful for them if they get a nice spot in cover somewhere in the enemy deployment zone though i guess.
For a squad of 10 strikes (for 2 flamers) id rather just take 10 stormbolters and psibolt with them for the cp
Emulgator wrote: so i guess the question would be what unit is a good target for this strat.
It doesn't necessarily have to be about which weapons work best at <9", it could be what targets it allows them to hit.
All factions can easily screen against 9" deep strikes but covering every possible 3" gap is harder, especially in low model count armies. Enemy characters & artillery will be very vulnerable to poor placement with this strat.
It can also take choice away from the opponent. A unit shows up and says "you have to kill me" means you have dictated at least some part of the opponent's action next turn. That can be a very useful tool in the right context.
True. I guess it's just not a huge confidence booster for me that the most obvious 2 units to make this stratagem work wonders are not usable with it.
I can see it as an occasional use stratagem, generally with like a small strike squad dropping in and murking a character with psybolts, but it's not something you'd build into your list.
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing?
Still need to see the biggest thing GK need for success: Some charge roll boosting abiliites. for a deep strike oriented army that has to leverage melee to compete, a single warlord trait that boosts their odds up to 45% doesn't cut it.
Honestly I think 9th's right around the corner. Might even be announced at Adepticon. SO we might be seeing newer better codexes sooner than you think.
So has GW finally thrown in the towel? I thought 8th was supposed to be the final edition/incarnation of 40K and "we are just going to keep tweaking 8th every year and not make any new editions"
or is 9th supposed to be 0.8.25 like some video game update?
I wouldn't call it throwing in the towel. Any system is going to need updates.
Word round the cooler is that it'll be similar to AoS' update where the core of the game remains the same, just implementing tweaks and improvements.
I suspect the "9th edition" moniker is just an easier way than saying 8.25, because that's probably what it'll be.
The WC story says that Shadowsun is stuck on the other side of the startide nexus and the death guard fleet was heading for it. That means that either (1) the book is set before the story and is about her efforts to stop the DG, presumably wiping them out somehow between recording the message and the drone arriving (2) she will abandon her mission to come back through the nexus in order to save the tau (which would seem odd given that the story has her make a strong commitment to not doing that), (3) the book will be about her fighting someone other than the DG, (4) the book will be split between the action at either end of the STN or (5) the book will not focus on her at all (which would seem weird given that she is getting a miniature and new rules). I think that (1) seems most likely from what little we have seen.
The story says that shadowsun has fought death guard, orks (be'gel) and tyranids (y'he) on the other side of the STN. The assumption that GSC would be featured seems to come from seeing some genestealers on the shadowsun preview photos. But it seems possible that those were just some random genestealers on a tyranid-infested world in that part of the story rather than them being one of the main opponents.
Lazarus / generic primaris master seems to have worse proportions than other primaris. Not sure if it's the pose, the robes or actually the sculpt, but he seems to have the gorilla arms and stumpy legs of an old marine.
Lazarus / generic primaris master seems to have worse proportions than other primaris. Not sure if it's the pose, the robes or actually the sculpt, but he seems to have the gorilla arms and stumpy legs of an old marine.
I noticed that too, I'm hoping it's just the angle.
The WC story says that Shadowsun is stuck on the other side of the startide nexus and the death guard fleet was heading for it. That means that either (1) the book is set before the story and is about her efforts to stop the DG, presumably wiping them out somehow between recording the message and the drone arriving (2) she will abandon her mission to come back through the nexus in order to save the tau (which would seem odd given that the story has her make a strong commitment to not doing that), (3) the book will be about her fighting someone other than the DG, (4) the book will be split between the action at either end of the STN or (5) the book will not focus on her at all (which would seem weird given that she is getting a miniature and new rules). I think that (1) seems most likely from what little we have seen.
The story says that shadowsun has fought death guard, orks (be'gel) and tyranids (y'he) on the other side of the STN. The assumption that GSC would be featured seems to come from seeing some genestealers on the shadowsun preview photos. But it seems possible that those were just some random genestealers on a tyranid-infested world in that part of the story rather than them being one of the main opponents.
Lazarus / generic primaris master seems to have worse proportions than other primaris. Not sure if it's the pose, the robes or actually the sculpt, but he seems to have the gorilla arms and stumpy legs of an old marine.
The short story end with the Tau asking themselves why is it that the DG fleet didn't get through the nexus yet. Imo there is a good chance that a third party got involved and prevented the advance of the DG, and that thanks to that third party Shadowsun is still in the fight.
WhiteDog wrote: Imo there is a good chance that a third party got involved and prevented the advance of the DG, and that thanks to that third party Shadowsun is still in the fight.
The AdMech saved them with a flock of chicken flyers!
The WC story says that Shadowsun is stuck on the other side of the startide nexus and the death guard fleet was heading for it. That means that either (1) the book is set before the story and is about her efforts to stop the DG, presumably wiping them out somehow between recording the message and the drone arriving (2) she will abandon her mission to come back through the nexus in order to save the tau (which would seem odd given that the story has her make a strong commitment to not doing that), (3) the book will be about her fighting someone other than the DG, (4) the book will be split between the action at either end of the STN or (5) the book will not focus on her at all (which would seem weird given that she is getting a miniature and new rules). I think that (1) seems most likely from what little we have seen.
The story says that shadowsun has fought death guard, orks (be'gel) and tyranids (y'he) on the other side of the STN. The assumption that GSC would be featured seems to come from seeing some genestealers on the shadowsun preview photos. But it seems possible that those were just some random genestealers on a tyranid-infested world in that part of the story rather than them being one of the main opponents.
Lazarus / generic primaris master seems to have worse proportions than other primaris. Not sure if it's the pose, the robes or actually the sculpt, but he seems to have the gorilla arms and stumpy legs of an old marine.
The short story end with the Tau asking themselves why is it that the DG fleet didn't get through the nexus yet. Imo there is a good chance that a third party got involved and prevented the advance of the DG, and that thanks to that third party Shadowsun is still in the fight.
They are also worried that they did go through and they did not see them or there is a temporal issue....basically they are worried.....
This is the first story that has interested me and tempting me to get a book - hopefully we will get more lore pages than the same old reprinted Marine datalsates
I mean this in the best possible way, but the Tau make great victims
The 40k universe is a really weird and dark place. Exposing the Tau to its horrors has a way of making it feel fresh to me, especially if its told from there point of view.
Honestly I think 9th's right around the corner. Might even be announced at Adepticon. SO we might be seeing newer better codexes sooner than you think.
So has GW finally thrown in the towel? I thought 8th was supposed to be the final edition/incarnation of 40K and "we are just going to keep tweaking 8th every year and not make any new editions"
or is 9th supposed to be 0.8.25 like some video game update?
Gw always says this is ultimate edition and no more every edition.
Who believes them? Let me sell genuine genie then
New editions and codexes are print money easily buttons. Gw aint abandoning it
Jidmah wrote: I really liked that story. It does a really good job at showing what a terror Death Guard are without making the T'au seem incompetent, a rare thing in WH40k lore.
Same, the story was really quite excellent.
I think this might be the most engaging PA story yet. I'm actually excited to see what happens between these factions, there are so many cool parallels GW can draw upon if they want.
They're all insidious.
They're all brainwashed.
They all believe they are doing the "right" thing.
They're all about "spreading" something.
They all make use of humans in some grim way.
Yea I'm starting to buy into this PA. Hopefully the stakes will be a bit higher. We know Shadowsun won't die because she get's a new model, but one side of the Startide Nexus might get pretty funky. The GSC could all die to a man. No major DG players will croak but I bet GW add a named daemon or daemon prince that is summarily executed.
Oh man those fethed up T'au veterans seem cool AF too. The 4th expansion guys, who have seen things. Maybe there'll be a rule to make a unit "4th Expansion Survivors" and they get bonuses against Psykers or something?
I have never been keen on any of these factions but GW are drawing me in, it's a shame they've not done this with any of the other PA books!
Oh man those fethed up T'au veterans seem cool AF too. The 4th expansion guys, who have seen things. Maybe there'll be a rule to make a unit "4th Expansion Survivors" and they get bonuses against Psykers or something?
I like that it showed that Tau have relatively little experience of the galaxy and chaos still. Their great traumatic experience in the 4th sphere was just a demonic incursion, they think fleets can't just vanish when in 40k they very much can and they're just running into Nurgle.
The WC story says that Shadowsun is stuck on the other side of the startide nexus and the death guard fleet was heading for it. That means that either (1) the book is set before the story and is about her efforts to stop the DG, presumably wiping them out somehow between recording the message and the drone arriving (2) she will abandon her mission to come back through the nexus in order to save the tau (which would seem odd given that the story has her make a strong commitment to not doing that), (3) the book will be about her fighting someone other than the DG, (4) the book will be split between the action at either end of the STN or (5) the book will not focus on her at all (which would seem weird given that she is getting a miniature and new rules). I think that (1) seems most likely from what little we have seen.
The story says that shadowsun has fought death guard, orks (be'gel) and tyranids (y'he) on the other side of the STN. The assumption that GSC would be featured seems to come from seeing some genestealers on the shadowsun preview photos. But it seems possible that those were just some random genestealers on a tyranid-infested world in that part of the story rather than them being one of the main opponents.
It would be cool if they did (4). Shadowsun stalls DG as best she can before continuing her "expansion". During her travels she fights Nids and all of a sudden her Gue'la look a bit purple and bald and keep talking about a multi-armed emperor then bam! GSC up the wazoo! At the same time blueberries sweat profusely as a rotten, tentacular fleet arrives on the other side of the Startide Nexus and starts shooting viscous liquid all over their gak. Shadowsun deals with the purple Gue'la on her end (or has she?!) then heads back to sort the Startide Nexus because she received a message drone from a blueberry covered in gunk and melting. On arrival back to the other side of the Startide Nexus more purple, bald Gue'la appear with bigger, bitier friends, DG turn around (slowly) and get involved. It's a mad shoot out and everyone ends up covered in gunk. DG leave as they've run out of gunk and Mortarion sends them a message telling them their gunk is needed elsewhere, the bald Gue'la are eradicated (or are they?!!?) and Shadowsun get's a new "suit" (model) for her troubles before going back to her expansion business.
Oh man those fethed up T'au veterans seem cool AF too. The 4th expansion guys, who have seen things. Maybe there'll be a rule to make a unit "4th Expansion Survivors" and they get bonuses against Psykers or something?
Oh man those fethed up T'au veterans seem cool AF too. The 4th expansion guys, who have seen things. Maybe there'll be a rule to make a unit "4th Expansion Survivors" and they get bonuses against Psykers or something?
I wondered if they were GSC
Just extreme Warp PTSD. Theres some lore from a few months back about them massacring the Kroot. Poor bird bois
Oh man those fethed up T'au veterans seem cool AF too. The 4th expansion guys, who have seen things. Maybe there'll be a rule to make a unit "4th Expansion Survivors" and they get bonuses against Psykers or something?
I wondered if they were GSC
Just extreme Warp PTSD. Theres some lore from a few months back about them massacring the Kroot. Poor bird bois
I'm guessing it's because they encountered a Genestealer Cult among the auxiliaries.
GoatboyBeta wrote: I mean this in the best possible way, but the Tau make great victims
The 40k universe is a really weird and dark place. Exposing the Tau to its horrors has a way of making it feel fresh to me, especially if its told from there point of view.
Oh man those fethed up T'au veterans seem cool AF too. The 4th expansion guys, who have seen things. Maybe there'll be a rule to make a unit "4th Expansion Survivors" and they get bonuses against Psykers or something?
I wondered if they were GSC
Just extreme Warp PTSD. Theres some lore from a few months back about them massacring the Kroot. Poor bird bois
I'm guessing it's because they encountered a Genestealer Cult among the auxiliaries.
Oh lord, give me GSC Kroot.
Its worth mentioning that the Tau now created a minor warp entity of the Greater Good. The 4th Sphere Tau realized that even though its not a religious, the auxiliaries were pretty much worshipping the Great Good, which led to some weird Greater Good daemon with multiple arms that led them out of the warp. So they hate any psychic sensitive race, since they're pretty much responsible
Honestly I think 9th's right around the corner. Might even be announced at Adepticon. SO we might be seeing newer better codexes sooner than you think.
So has GW finally thrown in the towel? I thought 8th was supposed to be the final edition/incarnation of 40K and "we are just going to keep tweaking 8th every year and not make any new editions"
or is 9th supposed to be 0.8.25 like some video game update?
Gw always says this is ultimate edition and no more every edition.
Who believes them? Let me sell genuine genie then
New editions and codexes are print money easily buttons. Gw aint abandoning it
When did GW ever say an edition was the last edition? I don't remember them saying that at any point but I could have just missed it.
At any rate, FWIW the edition update for AoS did improve the rules rather well and it was only when they got into releasing game-breaking battletomes that we ended up in a worse spot than before. A well-established trend most of us recognize, I'd say.
Oh man those fethed up T'au veterans seem cool AF too. The 4th expansion guys, who have seen things. Maybe there'll be a rule to make a unit "4th Expansion Survivors" and they get bonuses against Psykers or something?
I wondered if they were GSC
Just extreme Warp PTSD. Theres some lore from a few months back about them massacring the Kroot. Poor bird bois
I'm guessing it's because they encountered a Genestealer Cult among the auxiliaries.
Sounded more like chaos cultists corrupted the auxiliaries. Or just such horrors among the human servants of the DG that things got out of hand.
All we're really told is the 4th Sphere troops refused to talk about it.
Oh man those fethed up T'au veterans seem cool AF too. The 4th expansion guys, who have seen things. Maybe there'll be a rule to make a unit "4th Expansion Survivors" and they get bonuses against Psykers or something?
I wondered if they were GSC
Just extreme Warp PTSD. Theres some lore from a few months back about them massacring the Kroot. Poor bird bois
I'm guessing it's because they encountered a Genestealer Cult among the auxiliaries.
Sounded more like chaos cultists corrupted the auxiliaries. Or just such horrors among the human servants of the DG that things got out of hand.
All we're really told is the 4th Sphere troops refused to talk about it.
we actually get some more info in the Novel "War of Secrets"
but yeah the GK preview makes it pretty clear GKs are gonna come out pretty well, we can confirm from this "a doctrine equivilant" "new psykic powers" "
new relics" and new litanies.
intreastingly eneugh they've not previewed a new WARLORD trait. hopefullyl GKs get one of that too, their previous WL traits kinda sucked.
Though just giving Grey Knight Chaplains access to the +2" charge / 6" consolidate aura litany would instantly elevate the re-roll charges WL-trait (which was the one people were taking anyhow) quite a bit.
What I liked about the short story is that the DG bolters "sounded wet" - so maybe the bolters with plague weapon rule are areally coming as some people in the DG tactics thread are wishing. I also liked how they portrayed Chaos here, it's pretty rare that chaos appears actually creepy in 40K. Most of the time they say it's creepy, but then glorios Space Marines bolter chaos to hell nonetheless.
As to why DG isn't there yet - they are leaving it open whether Shadowsuns message is coming from a distant past - or even the future, right? So, either there's a 3rd player involved (tyranids are the obvious one given rumors, Imperium, because there's always some imperium OR, looking at the galactic map, even Necrons) or it's just some time-warping warp stuff.
bullyboy wrote: As a DA player, I'll take that 40 pages.....cheers.
Although the usual Anti-Marine crew are back at it again, it's already been pointed out that the majority of those pages are official datasheets for units that they have had access to for months. I'm pretty sure the only new datahseet will be Lazarus, unless they give DA access to Centurions (since they mentioned them in the fluff WD article), but I doubt it.
And guess what....shock horror, it will probably be the same for the SW too when they come around.
I am interested to see what GKs get though. They don't need a ton to make them competitive (ish), they just need the right tweak. They should get a reduction in CPs for some of their strats though, hope that happens.
At least we shall see this week and get a full reveal at the weekend from online videos.
As for Chaos not getting the same treatment, heresy is it's own reward
Dark Angels player states he likes his faction getting super special treatment - wow thats wierd... Yeah its a been a few months since they were last and extensively featured in WD....
Is a so called Campaign book the best place to cram in 40 pages of ever so slightly different and mostly reprinted rules? Its a Dark Angels Supplement with some other stuff thrown in as it was for Blood Angels and likely will be Space Wolves and Deathwatch.
Having an actual campaign story and related elements taking up the same space in a Campaign book might have been a more interesting.....than Marine supplement number.....
You're throwing a lot of salt at the DAs my friend. You do realize our WD "feature" if it can truly be called that was nothing more than a rather boring mission and not anywhere comparable to previous WD minidex updates. I know I know, DA are part of the evil SM faction that gets all the updates... Except we don't. We still don't have a start collecting kit, when some factions that already had kits are getting new ones. Ignoring Vigilus, which featured all factions, we haven't been featured (rules-wise) in a supplement since Pandorax, which gave us 2 Apocalypse formations and that was it. We did appear in Warzone Fenris, but only as secondary characters, with no major plot advancements or rules updates. Our current codex features an obscene amount of worthless strategems, relics, and pyschic powers (not saying they're all bad, but compared to other dex releases, it's pretty depressing). I will grant that we were in the poster boys for 6th and 7th and featured in the DV starter kit, but that was pretty much all GW did with our army. We never got a new multipart RW bike kit to match the newer models featured in the starter. Prior to the gathering storm, we were the only loyalist faction with a primarch whose location was known and was in good health, but we got passed over for the UM, the true poster boys of 40k. GW has spent the past decade doing just enough to keep DA players appeased without giving us anything substantial. I realize other factions need an update, believe me, I want GW to update those factions. Necrons have been trash since 8th dropped and they haven't had new models in over 15 years! But just because other factions need updates doesn't mean DA don't. Be happy that one of the worst factions in 8th is finally getting some attention. Every player should want a balanced game and playing a bad army really sucks. Aside from the Necrons, GKs, DAs, and TS all were in major need of a rules update, I'm amazed given how bad these factions were that we weren't featured first in PA.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Didn't necrons get a new character model in that necron v mechanicus box set a few years back? And how long ago was the plastic overlord?
Plastic Overlord came out with the Immortals/Deathmarks I think.
bullyboy wrote: As a DA player, I'll take that 40 pages.....cheers.
Although the usual Anti-Marine crew are back at it again, it's already been pointed out that the majority of those pages are official datasheets for units that they have had access to for months. I'm pretty sure the only new datahseet will be Lazarus, unless they give DA access to Centurions (since they mentioned them in the fluff WD article), but I doubt it.
And guess what....shock horror, it will probably be the same for the SW too when they come around.
I am interested to see what GKs get though. They don't need a ton to make them competitive (ish), they just need the right tweak. They should get a reduction in CPs for some of their strats though, hope that happens.
At least we shall see this week and get a full reveal at the weekend from online videos.
As for Chaos not getting the same treatment, heresy is it's own reward
Dark Angels player states he likes his faction getting super special treatment - wow thats wierd... Yeah its a been a few months since they were last and extensively featured in WD....
Is a so called Campaign book the best place to cram in 40 pages of ever so slightly different and mostly reprinted rules? Its a Dark Angels Supplement with some other stuff thrown in as it was for Blood Angels and likely will be Space Wolves and Deathwatch.
Having an actual campaign story and related elements taking up the same space in a Campaign book might have been a more interesting.....than Marine supplement number.....
You're throwing a lot of salt at the DAs my friend. You do realize our WD "feature" if it can truly be called that was nothing more than a rather boring mission and not anywhere comparable to previous WD minidex updates. I know I know, DA are part of the evil SM faction that gets all the updates... Except we don't. We still don't have a start collecting kit, when some factions that already had kits are getting new ones. Ignoring Vigilus, which featured all factions, we haven't been featured (rules-wise) in a supplement since Pandorax, which gave us 2 Apocalypse formations and that was it. We did appear in Warzone Fenris, but only as secondary characters, with no major plot advancements or rules updates. Our current codex features an obscene amount of worthless strategems, relics, and pyschic powers (not saying they're all bad, but compared to other dex releases, it's pretty depressing). I will grant that we were in the poster boys for 6th and 7th and featured in the DV starter kit, but that was pretty much all GW did with our army. We never got a new multipart RW bike kit to match the newer models featured in the starter. Prior to the gathering storm, we were the only loyalist faction with a primarch whose location was known and was in good health, but we got passed over for the UM, the true poster boys of 40k. GW has spent the past decade doing just enough to keep DA players appeased without giving us anything substantial. I realize other factions need an update, believe me, I want GW to update those factions. Necrons have been trash since 8th dropped and they haven't had new models in over 15 years! But just because other factions need updates doesn't mean DA don't. Be happy that one of the worst factions in 8th is finally getting some attention. Every player should want a balanced game and playing a bad army really sucks. Aside from the Necrons, GKs, DAs, and TS all were in major need of a rules update, I'm amazed given how bad these factions were that we weren't featured first in PA.
Ok I'll bite - Complaining that "oh no we only got this load of updates, features, special models and general lavished upon treatment is not really helping the cause."
Compare the oh so poor Dark Angels sub-sub-faction (Imperial-Marine-Dark Angels) to all the other non Marine factions......and realise that because Dark Angels is having yet more stuff - other people dont - its as simple as that - limited resources spent on one thing mean its not on another case in point having a Dark Angel character (how many do we have now) means no other faction gets one with this so called campaign book.
But lets get back to talking about something other than just Marines - the Tau story was awesome, the possibilities are many - will they explore them?
Models - obviously not - does not sound like more Tau - either war weary jaded Tau veterans or GSC Tau or Human auxlieries but at least they are in the lore - love to see models of any of these.....
NinthMusketeer wrote: Didn't necrons get a new character model in that necron v mechanicus box set a few years back? And how long ago was the plastic overlord?
The plastic Overlord was released with the 7th edition codex (White Dwarf Weekly #52, 24 January 2015).
WhiteDog wrote: Morden saying he'll bite while almost every post he make on this forum has some form of whine about DA.... This topic is getting ridiculous.
the mods have warned multiple times about hijacking these threads to complain about space marines getting stuff, ignore and report.
WhiteDog wrote: Morden saying he'll bite while almost every post he make on this forum has some form of whine about DA.... This topic is getting ridiculous.
the mods have warned multiple times about hijacking these threads to complain about space marines getting stuff, ignore and report.
So pretty much all the dangels stuff has supposedly leaked. I dunno if I can post it all but there's some neat stuff. Couple examples (not the full thing, because again I dunno if it's ok to post it all) below.
Spoiler:
Doctrine
Whilst the Devastator Doctrine is active, the range characteristic of all Heavy and Rapid Fire weapons equipped on DARK ANGELS units with this ability is increased by 6", and the range characteristic of all Assault and Pistol weapons equipped on Dark Angels units with this ability is increased by 3"
Litany
If this litany is inspiring, then when a friendly DARK ANGELS INFANTRY unit that is within 6" of this unit and did not ADVANCE or FALL BACK this turn is chosen to shoot with, models in that unit can shoot with ranged weapons as if their unit had remained stationary.
Hopefully this is the buff that GK needed. I didn't know how bad they were hurting before until someone here showed me and WOW- they did need some help.
Deathwatch are pretty ok, I guess- I'm not holding out for them to get anything new- well, mainly because most of the time I can make any new model into a Deathwatch model, even if it's not intended to be.
I'm still disappointed that Inquisition wasn't the add-on that both of these factions needed to make them really lethal.
cole1114 wrote: So pretty much all the dangels stuff has supposedly leaked. I dunno if I can post it all but there's some neat stuff. Couple examples (not the full thing, because again I dunno if it's ok to post it all) below.
Spoiler:
Doctrine
Whilst the Devastator Doctrine is active, the range characteristic of all Heavy and Rapid Fire weapons equipped on DARK ANGELS units with this ability is increased by 6", and the range characteristic of all Assault and Pistol weapons equipped on Dark Angels units with this ability is increased by 3"
Litany
If this litany is inspiring, then when a friendly DARK ANGELS INFANTRY unit that is within 6" of this unit and did not ADVANCE or FALL BACK this turn is chosen to shoot with, models in that unit can shoot with ranged weapons as if their unit had remained stationary.
a range buff for devestatore doctrine? that's actually intreasting. It's not gonna be game breaking but could be pretty useful.
cole1114 wrote: So pretty much all the dangels stuff has supposedly leaked. I dunno if I can post it all but there's some neat stuff. Couple examples (not the full thing, because again I dunno if it's ok to post it all) below.
Spoiler:
Doctrine
Whilst the Devastator Doctrine is active, the range characteristic of all Heavy and Rapid Fire weapons equipped on DARK ANGELS units with this ability is increased by 6", and the range characteristic of all Assault and Pistol weapons equipped on Dark Angels units with this ability is increased by 3"
Litany
If this litany is inspiring, then when a friendly DARK ANGELS INFANTRY unit that is within 6" of this unit and did not ADVANCE or FALL BACK this turn is chosen to shoot with, models in that unit can shoot with ranged weapons as if their unit had remained stationary.
a range buff for devestatore doctrine? that's actually intreasting. It's not gonna be game breaking but could be pretty useful.
They also get a 2CP stratagem to let a deathwing unit deepstrike within 6" of a ravenwing unit, and outside of 6" of an enemy unit. And a bunch more stuff.
Crimson wrote: The buff that the GK need is the Primaris GK, but unfortunately that's not happening yet.
Never wanted Primaris, still don't. I'll be perfectly happy killing them.
GK look pathetic next to the Primaris. They're supposed to be super astartes and now they're small and feeble compared to other marines.
Are you talking models or rules?
GK are the faction that can get a scale update like Thousand Sons since they stand so far apart from the aesthetics of other marines. With GW saying no Primaris I imagine they'll get such an update in the far future.
Crimson wrote: The buff that the GK need is the Primaris GK, but unfortunately that's not happening yet.
Never wanted Primaris, still don't. I'll be perfectly happy killing them.
GK look pathetic next to the Primaris. They're supposed to be super astartes and now they're small and feeble compared to other marines.
This sums up pretty well the whole primaris thing in my opinion...
Ironically, the introduction of the GK metal terminators on 40mm bases had a similar problem and reception. Lol, what's that BSG quote? All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
Crimson wrote: The buff that the GK need is the Primaris GK, but unfortunately that's not happening yet.
Never wanted Primaris, still don't. I'll be perfectly happy killing them.
GK look pathetic next to the Primaris. They're supposed to be super astartes and now they're small and feeble compared to other marines.
I'm not compensating for anything, i don't need huge marines
Its the hugeness, its the proportions. The GK kits looked amazing when they first came out, nowadays... well.
Still, I'd rather they prioritize updating all the various metal and resin kits still littering various model lines.
cole1114 wrote: So pretty much all the dangels stuff has supposedly leaked. I dunno if I can post it all but there's some neat stuff. Couple examples (not the full thing, because again I dunno if it's ok to post it all) below.
Spoiler:
Doctrine
Whilst the Devastator Doctrine is active, the range characteristic of all Heavy and Rapid Fire weapons equipped on DARK ANGELS units with this ability is increased by 6", and the range characteristic of all Assault and Pistol weapons equipped on Dark Angels units with this ability is increased by 3"
Litany
If this litany is inspiring, then when a friendly DARK ANGELS INFANTRY unit that is within 6" of this unit and did not ADVANCE or FALL BACK this turn is chosen to shoot with, models in that unit can shoot with ranged weapons as if their unit had remained stationary.
a range buff for devestatore doctrine? that's actually intreasting. It's not gonna be game breaking but could be pretty useful.
Their trait already encourages DA to be a boring gunline, and this is doubling down on that. But dull as it may be, they'll be good at it.
cole1114 wrote: So pretty much all the dangels stuff has supposedly leaked. I dunno if I can post it all but there's some neat stuff. Couple examples (not the full thing, because again I dunno if it's ok to post it all) below.
Spoiler:
Doctrine
Whilst the Devastator Doctrine is active, the range characteristic of all Heavy and Rapid Fire weapons equipped on DARK ANGELS units with this ability is increased by 6", and the range characteristic of all Assault and Pistol weapons equipped on Dark Angels units with this ability is increased by 3"
Litany
If this litany is inspiring, then when a friendly DARK ANGELS INFANTRY unit that is within 6" of this unit and did not ADVANCE or FALL BACK this turn is chosen to shoot with, models in that unit can shoot with ranged weapons as if their unit had remained stationary.
a range buff for devestatore doctrine? that's actually intreasting. It's not gonna be game breaking but could be pretty useful.
They also get a 2CP stratagem to let a deathwing unit deepstrike within 6" of a ravenwing unit, and outside of 6" of an enemy unit. And a bunch more stuff.
Sick. Where are you seeing these? PM me if you can't post
If that leak is true, I hate that super doctrine. Luckily, it seems that RW and DW are getting some serious help with relics, traits and strats which they will need since they never utilize the basic Tactic or super doctrine apparently. I want to be in Tactical Doctrine as soon as possible for the bikes and terminators. I expect this is why RW and Dw are getting a lot of love, they don't make use of the Chapter Tactic or super doctrine.
I see the DA super doctrine (assuming these rumors are true) as actually being more a mild doctrine buff, and not a "... ohh who are you kidding you wanna be in X doctrine all the time" that some of the other doctrines are. from a game design POV, TBH it's proably one of the better designed doctrines out there. as It'll be a useful bonus to have but yeah, you're still going to shift through the doctrines
this bums me out if we have to buy a big box set to get Shadowsun. At least I can probably find someone to offload Sisters on but 
