The Thousand Sons can now dedicate their Sorcerers to one of the nine Cults of the Legion – a callback to their arcane roots on fallen Prospero – providing them with a plethora of new tactical options.
Would you say I have a plethora of new tactical options?
Note how they used the phrase "tactical options" and not "powers" or "abilities". My prediction is that Thousand Sons will get 9 new stratagems, each locked to a specific Cult keyword. Then they'll get a special rule that will allow a pure Thousand Sons army to give each sorcerer or exalted sorcerer a Cult of the Legion keyword from a list of 9. The keyword won't confer any bonus but will allow use of the associated stratagem.
A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?
Because at least this way other factions get something.
Malika2 wrote: Im still waiting for that impactful, forever changing the fluff, kinda stuff they've promised us... :p
Dark Angels got a Primaris character.....thats about it I believe - if its not related to Marines its not likely to matter.
I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet
Probably scared at the massive tears, screaming and backlash that "only" giving certain marine chapters a "mere" supplement (that no other actual proper Faction has even a single one of) would have caused. There is already moaning baout what "little" they are getting in any case.
deTox91 wrote: A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are. Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?
You are overestimating how decisive this book will be, it's going to be a giant nothing burger plot wise. Every one of the PA books feels like it's the middle book of a trilogy, just giving the existing factions a quick mention, introducing problems it won't resolve, and then moves onto something else before you can feel invested. The Thousand sons will end the book on the edge of victory, with the DA and GK having completed some herculean task that gives them a slight chance to stem the tides, and before we can find out how that turns out we'll get space furries vs orks. We just have to accept that the PA series will live and die by its rules and not it's story.
*edit* Btw, does anyone know how well these are selling? My FLGS seems to think they are a dud, but a sample size of one is hardly conclusive. Out of my local friend group, none of them have bought a PA, and most haven't even bothered to get the rules online. Is that everyone else's experience?
deTox91 wrote: A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?
You are overestimating how decisive this book will be, it's going to be a giant nothing burger plot wise. Every one of the PA books feels like it's the middle book of a trilogy, just giving the existing factions a quick mention, introducing problems it won't resolve, and then moves onto something else before you can feel invested. The Thousand sons will end the book on the edge of victory, with the DA and GK having completed some herculean task that gives them a slight chance to stem the tides, and before we can find out how that turns out we'll get space furries vs orks. We just have to accept that the PA series will live and die by its rules and not it's story.
Well Viglis was a big some total of "nothing changed, move along now" as well to be fair. It reminded me of the Warmachien/Hordes campaign books where lots of major characters fight and never quite manage to kill each other
Voss wrote: Except, you know, multiple traits, relics and army rules for free.
But yeah, identical other than that minor detail.
What do you mean? Do Admech and Marines not get their army traits, relics and rules if you take them as allies?
Or are you referring to the fact that there are a couple generic Drukhari relics you can choose to take on different drukhari HQs?
I'm saying that you should probably read the Dark Eldar codex if you think its 'identical.' If you bring an archon, haemonculus and succubus, they each get a warlord trait and relic. The kabal, coven and kult each get their obsesssions and general army traits and having the others turns nothing off.
Yep, there is one stratagem that interacts between the three drukhari factions, granting a warlord trait to a succubus and a haemonculus for 1cp. Not a relic though we just have the regular relic strat every faction gets. There is also i believe one aura that works off the DRUKHARI keyword.
So does that mean Saint Celestine is also a part of the Imperial Guard codex? She's got an aura that affects guardsmen.
The Thousand Sons can now dedicate their Sorcerers to one of the nine Cults of the Legion – a callback to their arcane roots on fallen Prospero – providing them with a plethora of new tactical options.
Would you say I have a plethora of new tactical options?
Note how they used the phrase "tactical options" and not "powers" or "abilities". My prediction is that Thousand Sons will get 9 new stratagems, each locked to a specific Cult keyword. Then they'll get a special rule that will allow a pure Thousand Sons army to give each sorcerer or exalted sorcerer a Cult of the Legion keyword from a list of 9. The keyword won't confer any bonus but will allow use of the associated stratagem.
A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?
Because at least this way other factions get something.
Nah, we got time for SW to beat orks, Death watch to beat Necrons, Custody to beat Harlequins, then, I dunno. Time for a new marine faction!
I find the not-progression of storyline in 40k to be rather interesting, because that is not at all the case for AoS. Their plot lines have not only been a big deal but have had a good mix of the poster-boys (Stormcast instead of Marines) losing.
The funny part is that 8th edition, in and of itself, was a huge bit of progression...and the various battleboxes have made it quite clear that there is stuff happening that is a Big Deal.
Cripes people, Forgebane detailed the fact that Cawl is currently engaged in a war with the Necrons over Blackstone deposits across the Imperium.
deTox91 wrote: A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?
You are overestimating how decisive this book will be, it's going to be a giant nothing burger plot wise. Every one of the PA books feels like it's the middle book of a trilogy, just giving the existing factions a quick mention, introducing problems it won't resolve, and then moves onto something else before you can feel invested. The Thousand sons will end the book on the edge of victory, with the DA and GK having completed some herculean task that gives them a slight chance to stem the tides, and before we can find out how that turns out we'll get space furries vs orks. We just have to accept that the PA series will live and die by its rules and not it's story.
Well Viglis was a big some total of "nothing changed, move along now" as well to be fair. It reminded me of the Warmachien/Hordes campaign books where lots of major characters fight and never quite manage to kill each other
Yes, because Cadia being destroyed definitely qualifies as "nothing changed".
deTox91 wrote: A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?
You are overestimating how decisive this book will be, it's going to be a giant nothing burger plot wise. Every one of the PA books feels like it's the middle book of a trilogy, just giving the existing factions a quick mention, introducing problems it won't resolve, and then moves onto something else before you can feel invested. The Thousand sons will end the book on the edge of victory, with the DA and GK having completed some herculean task that gives them a slight chance to stem the tides, and before we can find out how that turns out we'll get space furries vs orks. We just have to accept that the PA series will live and die by its rules and not it's story.
Well Viglis was a big some total of "nothing changed, move along now" as well to be fair. It reminded me of the Warmachien/Hordes campaign books where lots of major characters fight and never quite manage to kill each other
Yes, because Cadia being destroyed definitely qualifies as "nothing changed".
PA books are selling for the factions within, but not as campaign books. I'm pretty sure BA players bought Baal, Craftworld players bought Phoenix Rising etc.
I just wish their were more missions, the narrative is really weak.
I haven't been keeping up with all 171 pages of this thread and I didn't see anything in the first couple pages. Is there expected to a be a Daemons supplement at some point?
puma713 wrote: I haven't been keeping up with all 171 pages of this thread and I didn't see anything in the first couple pages. Is there expected to a be a Daemons supplement at some point?
all armies can expect to see some sort of support yes.
puma713 wrote: I haven't been keeping up with all 171 pages of this thread and I didn't see anything in the first couple pages. Is there expected to a be a Daemons supplement at some point?
puma713 wrote: I haven't been keeping up with all 171 pages of this thread and I didn't see anything in the first couple pages. Is there expected to a be a Daemons supplement at some point?
puma713 wrote: I haven't been keeping up with all 171 pages of this thread and I didn't see anything in the first couple pages. Is there expected to a be a Daemons supplement at some point?
nataliereed1984 wrote: Come to think of it... Harlequins don't even have any named characters...
And wasn't that female Shadowseer character, who's been big in the lore, a big part of the initial trailers, featuring that bald female inquisitor?
Honestly... that would be an IDEAL Harlequin release! Give them a mini for a cool, compelling named character, who plays a significant role in the current story, is herself a psyker, and has tons of pre-existing backstory!
Give me her and Fulgrim at the culmination of PA and I'll be thinking, despite not playing either faction (as of yet), "You know? Not bad, GW. Coulda been better, but nice conclusion".
You mean Sylandri Veilwalker?
The problem is we're not sure whether that's really the name of an individual or the name of a character role, like the Dread Pirate Roberts, since as far as we know Harlequins give up their identities and literally become the characters they play.
Same can be said of Cypher, and is literally true of the Phoenix Lords, but they're still great characters!
Malika2 wrote:Im still waiting for that impactful, forever changing the fluff, kinda stuff they've promised us... :p
Grimgold wrote:You are overestimating how decisive this book will be, it's going to be a giant nothing burger plot wise. Every one of the PA books feels like it's the middle book of a trilogy, just giving the existing factions a quick mention, introducing problems it won't resolve, and then moves onto something else before you can feel invested. The Thousand sons will end the book on the edge of victory, with the DA and GK having completed some herculean task that gives them a slight chance to stem the tides, and before we can find out how that turns out we'll get space furries vs orks. We just have to accept that the PA series will live and die by its rules and not it's story.
Didn’t GW report in a twitch stream that all of the Psychic Awakening takes place during the Indomitus Crusade? If they were telling the truth then this is charter 2 with the 13th Black Crusade/ end of 7th edition being the first and the Dark Imperium/ beginning of 8th edition the third. So it looks like this series is more like the Horus Heresy, we know the ending we’re just getting the middles filled in.
You know, I cannot for the life of me get people complaining that 40k supplements don't move the plot forward along enough...
*uses walker to very, very slowly ascend up to the soapbox*
In MY day, it was implicitly understood that the plot didn't move! And dagnabbit, we didn't WANT it to!
40k was, is, and, Throne willing, ever SHALL be, a game for enjoying fun personalized narrative gaming with your friends!
It's not a cutthroat tournament game, and it's not an ongoing saga.
The STORY is about YOU AND YOUR ARMY. The outcome of majour plot point is WHATEVER HAPPENS IN YOUR GAME.
For a solid 20 years or more (I think?) the biggest "story advancement" was "Oh no there's a bunch of undying, self-repairing, soulless Egypt-themed Terminators with ridiculously powerful weapons waking up!"… and even THAT was meant to feed to the one and ONLY "current" story point:
Everything was going really, really, really badly, and doomsday for the galaxy was right around the corner. It was just a question of HOW.
The exact same was true of Warhammer fantasy, too!
The clock was, for both settings, perpetually frozen at TWO! MINUTES! TO MIIIIIIIDNIGHT! The hands that threaten dooooooom!
Cadia and its allied Imperial forces were ALWAYS making a valiant last stand against the 13th Black Crusade, to hold the Cadian gate, because if Cadia fell, Chaos could swarm out of the Eye of Terror en masse, straight to Holy Terra! The Tyraids were ALWAYS overwhelming the Blood Angels, who (even with the aid of Necrons!) couldn't repel the massive swarm, and would likely soon be devoured! Daemons were ALWAYS threatening to breach Khaine's Gate, and spill forth into Comorragh to devour the souls of the Dark Eldar that had cheated them from their claim to their souls for so long! The Golden Throne was ALWAYS on the verge of flickering out! Thraka was ALWAYS pounding on Yarrick's gates! And so on.
How do the stories end? Well IT FRICKING DEPENDS:
Does your Chaos army beat your friend's Cadian IG army?
Does your Blood Angels army beat your friend's Tyranid army?
Does your Dark Eldar army beat your friend's Daemon army?
That was the point!!!!
If new stuff came along, that wasn't already part of the lore anyway, the general understanding was that it was just portions of the very very very big galaxy that had just not yet been described (as there's TONS of stuff that hasn't). Like the Tau Empire.
This was all done so the players had as much room to imagine and enjoy the story for themselves as possible. Just like "Oh there's 1000s of SM chapters!" and "We don't even KNOW who two of the Primarchs were!" and "Is the Emperor alive? Is He a God? Is he just a psyker? Is he actually a gross mouldy corpse on a chair and it's only the sacrificed psykers that keep the astronomicon going?".
The more GW answers, the more they tell the ongoing story themselves, the more that that is taken from us. Clearly they decided to shift their focus... which I dislike, PARTICULARLY as concerns the still raw wound of End Times... but just look at the silliness they've had to do to make this work in 40k: "All our big climactic events we held to for decades? All anticlimactically concluded, with NONE of them having any consequences anywhere NEAR the scale we said! Some had no real consequences at all! And also everyone inexplicably got the dates wrong, so that way we don't have to rename it 41k. Even though our current events span over a century. AND our normal human and T'au characters haven't aged a day in all that time! Even the ones who were already old-as-dirt, like Yarrick! But it's all good, because plot advancement!"
-ing SPARE ME.
I get that the idea of a SUDDEN apocalypse was more relevant in the 80s, with its Cold War fears, than now, where instead the idea of severe irreparable damage to the place everyone lives and the environment they depend on, a part of the civilization that's pretty much permanently ruined cos it was in the wrong part of that place, and everything SLOWLY COLLAPSING AND GOING TO , makes more sense, and is more relatable, with the fears of climate change, economic collapse, and resurgent fascism we have now... but still...
Don't YOU want to be the author of your army's story???
I don't mind some story developments but I will agree that regarding a moving story the phrase "be careful what you wish for" comes to mind. I've played games with a rapidly developing story and it can be exhausting to keep up with (suddenly new sourcebooks even ones you'd otherwise not care about are ESSENTIAL. Imagine if for example every new codex, supplement and game expansion was a massive change to the setting that you needed to buy to keep up with the game?) expensive and runs the risk of wrecking what you loved about it.
nataliereed1984 wrote: You know, I cannot for the life of me get people complaining that 40k supplements don't move the plot forward along enough...
The more GW answers, the more they tell the ongoing story themselves, the more that that is taken from us. Clearly they decided to shift their focus... which I dislike, PARTICULARLY as concerns the still raw wound of End Times... but just look at the silliness they've had to do to make this work in 40k: "All our big climactic events we held to for decades? All anticlimactically concluded, with NONE of them having any consequences anywhere NEAR the scale we said! Some had no real consequences at all! And also everyone inexplicably got the dates wrong, so that way we don't have to rename it 41k. Even though our currents span over a century. AND our normal human and T'au characters haven't aged a day in all that time! But it's all good, because plot advancement!"
-ing SPARE ME.
..we have to stop running into one another. despite where i disagree, you also nail it, especially in the spots like the one above.
the more they tell directly, the more the payoff isn't worth it. being so close to ruin oughta be where it stays in my opinion. more to the point, theres no way these supplements WILL drastically change much by my count... we already had that recently. the fires still arent out from the last one. enoguh gone on to sour me as it is.
i just wanna see what the rules from all this'll be, especially the xeno and the guard.
BrianDavion wrote: I don't mind some story developments but I will agree that regarding a moving story the phrase "be careful what you wish for" comes to mind. I've played games with a rapidly developing story and it can be exhausting to keep up with (suddenly new sourcebooks even ones you'd otherwise not care about are ESSENTIAL. Imagine if for example every new codex, supplement and game expansion was a massive change to the setting that you needed to buy to keep up with the game?) expensive and runs the risk of wrecking what you loved about it.
Totally.
The more the story advances, the chances of something happening that severely, or even irreparably compromises something you used to love, gets exponentially higher.
Like remember the transition of Oldcrons to Newcrons? Imagine there being a chance of something like that happening EVERY YEAR.
Especially when you take into consideration the natural staff turnover at GW.
Worst case scenario, you get End Times 2: Ecclesiarchal Boogaloo, followed by Age of Guilliman.
nataliereed1984 wrote: You know, I cannot for the life of me get people complaining that 40k supplements don't move the plot forward along enough...
Rant aside, I think it's less about forward momentum and more about impact. The end of 7th/start of 8th saw the first change to the status quo in a long time, and I don't think GW is in a hurry to do that again. Instead they're using these campaign books to fill in the gaps, and flesh out areas of the new status quo.
The problem is, none of these new battlefields have any real impact on anything. They all end in basically a stalemate, and nothing really happens. The end result is that a bunch of dudes fought a bunch of other dudes and... here have half a book of new Marine rules.
The campaigns have to feel meaningful for them to be anything other than window dressing for a [Whatever Flavour] Marine Codex update.
I don't think we're gonna get significant plot advancement until they decide they've sold enough primaris marines and it's time for everyone to replace their collections with even bigger marines. I don't see that happening for a while.
In my opinion the best thing GW could do is focus on campaigns for smaller slices of space. Imagine if GW focuses closely on a sector or so at a time, they start by putting out a sourcebook or website that details the sector, major worlds how they interact etc. and really fleshes it out. they then do campaign books that focus on the fighting for said sector. do it right and they can make the stakes feel real, while also not having it be a "this single planet is important to the fate of the entire galaxy" which inevitably means "a buncha people die and the status quo doesn't change" is all they CAN do. but if they focus on smaller conflicts they can oddly make the stakes feel more real and more important by, oddly, being less important.
I mean, using the plague wars event as an example, it wasn't a bad idea but it was connected to a larger battle that we all knew the Imperium was going to win, GW's not going to destroy the Ultramarines. BUT, introduce the "Toberham sector" that happens to contain the homeworld of the Sons of Fury Chapter, they can possiably up the stakes. BUT they have to do this properly by developing the area, and well.. letting us know who the Sons of Fury are, and why we should give a damn about them.
now imagine if they drag this event out over a few years of products, we're given this new space marine chapter, a chaos warband operating in the area new craftworld that is in this sector. etc. and all these factions are fleshed out in black library novels etc and given some real character... suddenly we feel there could be some stakes, especially when the summer campaign has the new CSM warband vs the new marine chapter and we're told the faction that loses will be destroyed in canon.
Sure some petty minor sucessor chapter isn't going to be big stakes for the universe, it'd be the type of thing that might pass uncommented in a single sentence in a codex, but.. build it up right and it'll be emotionally important. which when people say they want important events is what they REALLY mean
Or they could start killing off established characters that don't have a model or maybe only have one in finecast. Like I was pretty sure Kor Phaeron was gonna cack it in PA2. Doesn't Guilliman have a sword that can permakill daemons? Oh no Lorgar has finally emerged from his solitude to lay waste to Ultramar! But where's his plastic model reveal? Oh...
BrianDavion wrote: especially when the summer campaign has the new CSM warband vs the new marine chapter and we're told the faction that loses will be destroyed in canon.
And you have found a good way to ensure nobody cares about those especially to point of building army for them
Quite impressively, GW seems to have found the worst of both worlds.
By promising impactful events and changing storylines, the people who like those are now disappointed by what has been delivered so far, while those who prefer the static setting fear what might be coming up.
They managed to package these things in books that are codex supplements more than they are campaign expansions, meaning they also basically dissatisfy their entire player base on another level: either you play faction X that is covered in one of these PA books, but would have preferred to get a faction-X-focussed supplement without the other stuff stuck on, or you want a general campaign, and instead find yourself with a mini-faction-X supplement you have no use for.
Don't know who came up with this, but it doesn't seem ideal. Reminds me a bit of the Necromunda mess, where more than anything they seem interested in just selling a pile of largely pointless books, and perhaps the occasional new miniature.
I understand the sentiment of wanting to keep things in a status quo state, but having a state over several decades eventually just invites entropy. So I understand very well if GW wants to change that state once in awhile.
It also makes it much harder to introduce new units when you have things in frozen state as you can only pull a rabbit out of a hat in such a state.
The problem I have with the PA books so far is that they are small content patches/fixes with some lore attached that should most likely be free up until an actual point release comes for the faction.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: I don't think we're gonna get significant plot advancement until they decide they've sold enough primaris marines and it's time for everyone to replace their collections with even bigger marines. I don't see that happening for a while.
I think plot advancement will resume after 9E appears next summer, although not on the same scale as Gathering Storm / 8E. They introduced a bunch of faction-specific plot points over the last few years that are clearly intended to be explored later (such as Necrons with blackstone, Tyranids 'settling' & fortifying a world). We'll likely see more of these in PA too.
Now that GW are past the breakneck 8E codex release schedule they can go back to releasing new edition 9E codexes alongside new models & units that focus on new fluff.
No they haven't been, but I seem to remember an interview where they talked about it all leading to something in the end. That there were common threads that should become more apparent with each consecutive book that are ultimately clues to the big event in the end. I think the first PAs basically don't have these clues/they're so minor that they'll only be picked up on after the fact.
I can't really figure out where I read/heard this. I'm pretty sure it was an official capacity so maybe it was the GW podcast. If I'm way off and it was just some silly rumour then I apologise.
Even if true though, it might all still just be GW hyperbole
PiñaColada wrote: No they haven't been, but I seem to remember an interview where they talked about it all leading to something in the end. That there were common threads that should become more apparent with each consecutive book that are ultimately clues to the big event in the end. I think the first PAs basically don't have these clues/they're so minor that they'll only be picked up on after the fact.
I can't really figure out where I read/heard this. I'm pretty sure it was an official capacity so maybe it was the GW podcast. If I'm way off and it was just some silly rumour then I apologise.
Even if true though, it might all still just be GW hyperbole
So far, some hints seem to imply the following, in descending order of likelihood:
1) Fulgrim returns.
2) "Endless Spells" for 40k. Psychic Awakening is basically Malign Portents.
3) Something to do with the Emperor waking up, in some fashion.
I don't think endless spells are coming actually.
Too many opportunities for them, and yet not a single own.
Now we're getting the two most prominent psyker factions in the next book, and no models for endless spells.
As for fulgrim, I'm not sold on him being back before one more loyalist primarch comes back. likely russ.
Endless Spells are definitely a possibility. There has been several background references that sound like them, 9th is coming and can include them in the core rules and it's been a proven sales channel in their other flagship game.
PiñaColada wrote: No they haven't been, but I seem to remember an interview where they talked about it all leading to something in the end. That there were common threads that should become more apparent with each consecutive book that are ultimately clues to the big event in the end. I think the first PAs basically don't have these clues/they're so minor that they'll only be picked up on after the fact.
I can't really figure out where I read/heard this. I'm pretty sure it was an official capacity so maybe it was the GW podcast. If I'm way off and it was just some silly rumour then I apologise.
Even if true though, it might all still just be GW hyperbole
Endless Spells in 9th.
What was it PA2 described? A flock of golden eagles? A manifestation of the Emperor's sword that cleaved light? Other things that all sound very similar to Endless Spell models that exist in AoS.
BoomWolf wrote: I don't think endless spells are coming actually.
Too many opportunities for them, and yet not a single own.
Now we're getting the two most prominent psyker factions in the next book, and no models for endless spells.
As for fulgrim, I'm not sold on him being back before one more loyalist primarch comes back. likely russ.
Well, I was saying what stuff has been hinted at for release at the finale of PA.
So far, the "Endless Spell" phenomena that have been popping up in the PA books have been rare, bizarre instances, but there being some grand psychic shockwave or something at the culmination of the story - perhaps even as partly side effect of Magnus' ritual - that then leaves them all over the place is very much in the realm of possibility.
As for the loyalists getting another primarch before chaos does, there's nothing really to base that on in PA whatsoever. The only real support for it would be the unsubstantiated assumptions that they're going to have returning primarchs be relatively balanced between the factions, and that they even intend to have more than one loyalist primarch at all.
Meanwhile, hints about Fulgrim activity and sightings and prophecies have been dropping right and left ALL OVER the PA books, with nary a whisper about any loyalists. There's more hints that the EMPEROR might be waking up than that Russ, Vulkan, The Lion or The Khan are coming back!
Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
nataliereed1984 wrote: You know, I cannot for the life of me get people complaining that 40k supplements don't move the plot forward along enough...
*uses walker to very, very slowly ascend up to the soapbox*
In MY day, it was implicitly understood that the plot didn't move! And dagnabbit, we didn't WANT it to!
40k was, is, and, Throne willing, ever SHALL be, a game for enjoying fun personalized narrative gaming with your friends!
It's not a cutthroat tournament game, and it's not an ongoing saga.
The STORY is about YOU AND YOUR ARMY. The outcome of majour plot point is WHATEVER HAPPENS IN YOUR GAME.
For a solid 20 years or more (I think?) the biggest "story advancement" was "Oh no there's a bunch of undying, self-repairing, soulless Egypt-themed Terminators with ridiculously powerful weapons waking up!"… and even THAT was meant to feed to the one and ONLY "current" story point:
Everything was going really, really, really badly, and doomsday for the galaxy was right around the corner. It was just a question of HOW.
The exact same was true of Warhammer fantasy, too!
The clock was, for both settings, perpetually frozen at TWO! MINUTES! TO MIIIIIIIDNIGHT! The hands that threaten dooooooom!
Cadia and its allied Imperial forces were ALWAYS making a valiant last stand against the 13th Black Crusade, to hold the Cadian gate, because if Cadia fell, Chaos could swarm out of the Eye of Terror en masse, straight to Holy Terra! The Tyraids were ALWAYS overwhelming the Blood Angels, who (even with the aid of Necrons!) couldn't repel the massive swarm, and would likely soon be devoured! Daemons were ALWAYS threatening to breach Khaine's Gate, and spill forth into Comorragh to devour the souls of the Dark Eldar that had cheated them from their claim to their souls for so long! The Golden Throne was ALWAYS on the verge of flickering out! Thraka was ALWAYS pounding on Yarrick's gates! And so on.
How do the stories end? Well IT FRICKING DEPENDS:
Does your Chaos army beat your friend's Cadian IG army?
Does your Blood Angels army beat your friend's Tyranid army?
Does your Dark Eldar army beat your friend's Daemon army?
That was the point!!!!
If new stuff came along, that wasn't already part of the lore anyway, the general understanding was that it was just portions of the very very very big galaxy that had just not yet been described (as there's TONS of stuff that hasn't). Like the Tau Empire.
This was all done so the players had as much room to imagine and enjoy the story for themselves as possible. Just like "Oh there's 1000s of SM chapters!" and "We don't even KNOW who two of the Primarchs were!" and "Is the Emperor alive? Is He a God? Is he just a psyker? Is he actually a gross mouldy corpse on a chair and it's only the sacrificed psykers that keep the astronomicon going?".
The more GW answers, the more they tell the ongoing story themselves, the more that that is taken from us. Clearly they decided to shift their focus... which I dislike, PARTICULARLY as concerns the still raw wound of End Times... but just look at the silliness they've had to do to make this work in 40k: "All our big climactic events we held to for decades? All anticlimactically concluded, with NONE of them having any consequences anywhere NEAR the scale we said! Some had no real consequences at all! And also everyone inexplicably got the dates wrong, so that way we don't have to rename it 41k. Even though our current events span over a century. AND our normal human and T'au characters haven't aged a day in all that time! Even the ones who were already old-as-dirt, like Yarrick! But it's all good, because plot advancement!"
-ing SPARE ME.
I get that the idea of a SUDDEN apocalypse was more relevant in the 80s, with its Cold War fears, than now, where instead the idea of severe irreparable damage to the place everyone lives and the environment they depend on, a part of the civilization that's pretty much permanently ruined cos it was in the wrong part of that place, and everything SLOWLY COLLAPSING AND GOING TO , makes more sense, and is more relatable, with the fears of climate change, economic collapse, and resurgent fascism we have now... but still...
Don't YOU want to be the author of your army's story???
Yeah I was never a fan of the whole "Move things forward" approach either. The galaxy is effectively infinite, there should be no shortage of possibilities without having to move through time in a drastic way. When they introduced the Tau they didn't say "We've jumped ahead 600 years to find this new species", because they didn't have to. Same with any other developments. Yes they can run through a few decades in fast forward for the sake of continuity but they don't have to label it as a new epoch or take us forward by a millennium, it isn't necessary.
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
I really don't think that's the last book. It's just the last of the second "wave", like Blood of Baal was the last of the first "wave". I don't know why people keep making this mistake…
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
I really don't think that's the last book. It's just the last of the second "wave", like Blood of Baal was the last of the first "wave". I don't know why people keep making this mistake…
Especially because GW posted a picture of all factions that would get something from PA and Custodes specifically had their symbol on it. Nothing for them yet save that there is a character coming down the line with a Sisters of Silence character (so I'm betting those will release with whatever PA book Custodes end up in).
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
I really don't think that's the last book. It's just the last of the second "wave", like Blood of Baal was the last of the first "wave". I don't know why people keep making this mistake…
Especially because GW posted a picture of all factions that would get something from PA and Custodes specifically had their symbol on it. Nothing for them yet save that there is a character coming down the line with a Sisters of Silence character (so I'm betting those will release with whatever PA book Custodes end up in).
Obvs agreed on your first point, but: I thought those two characters were meant to be a special, limited edition Black Library release, to coincide with their book?
I like them moving things forward. After a while the same mysteries, the same looming apocalypse, got really stale. Doubly so when one felt they would always stay that way. I see things revealed, things happening, creating room for new mysteries and evolved threats. It doesn't destroy the setting.
nataliereed1984 wrote: You know, I cannot for the life of me get people complaining that 40k supplements don't move the plot forward along enough...
*uses walker to very, very slowly ascend up to the soapbox*
In MY day, it was implicitly understood that the plot didn't move! And dagnabbit, we didn't WANT it to!
40k was, is, and, Throne willing, ever SHALL be, a game for enjoying fun personalized narrative gaming with your friends!
It's not a cutthroat tournament game, and it's not an ongoing saga.
The STORY is about YOU AND YOUR ARMY. The outcome of majour plot point is WHATEVER HAPPENS IN YOUR GAME.
For a solid 20 years or more (I think?) the biggest "story advancement" was "Oh no there's a bunch of undying, self-repairing, soulless Egypt-themed Terminators with ridiculously powerful weapons waking up!"… and even THAT was meant to feed to the one and ONLY "current" story point:
Everything was going really, really, really badly, and doomsday for the galaxy was right around the corner. It was just a question of HOW.
The exact same was true of Warhammer fantasy, too!
The clock was, for both settings, perpetually frozen at TWO! MINUTES! TO MIIIIIIIDNIGHT! The hands that threaten dooooooom!
Cadia and its allied Imperial forces were ALWAYS making a valiant last stand against the 13th Black Crusade, to hold the Cadian gate, because if Cadia fell, Chaos could swarm out of the Eye of Terror en masse, straight to Holy Terra! The Tyraids were ALWAYS overwhelming the Blood Angels, who (even with the aid of Necrons!) couldn't repel the massive swarm, and would likely soon be devoured! Daemons were ALWAYS threatening to breach Khaine's Gate, and spill forth into Comorragh to devour the souls of the Dark Eldar that had cheated them from their claim to their souls for so long! The Golden Throne was ALWAYS on the verge of flickering out! Thraka was ALWAYS pounding on Yarrick's gates! And so on.
How do the stories end? Well IT FRICKING DEPENDS:
Does your Chaos army beat your friend's Cadian IG army?
Does your Blood Angels army beat your friend's Tyranid army?
Does your Dark Eldar army beat your friend's Daemon army?
That was the point!!!!
If new stuff came along, that wasn't already part of the lore anyway, the general understanding was that it was just portions of the very very very big galaxy that had just not yet been described (as there's TONS of stuff that hasn't). Like the Tau Empire.
This was all done so the players had as much room to imagine and enjoy the story for themselves as possible. Just like "Oh there's 1000s of SM chapters!" and "We don't even KNOW who two of the Primarchs were!" and "Is the Emperor alive? Is He a God? Is he just a psyker? Is he actually a gross mouldy corpse on a chair and it's only the sacrificed psykers that keep the astronomicon going?".
The more GW answers, the more they tell the ongoing story themselves, the more that that is taken from us. Clearly they decided to shift their focus... which I dislike, PARTICULARLY as concerns the still raw wound of End Times... but just look at the silliness they've had to do to make this work in 40k: "All our big climactic events we held to for decades? All anticlimactically concluded, with NONE of them having any consequences anywhere NEAR the scale we said! Some had no real consequences at all! And also everyone inexplicably got the dates wrong, so that way we don't have to rename it 41k. Even though our current events span over a century. AND our normal human and T'au characters haven't aged a day in all that time! Even the ones who were already old-as-dirt, like Yarrick! But it's all good, because plot advancement!"
-ing SPARE ME.
I get that the idea of a SUDDEN apocalypse was more relevant in the 80s, with its Cold War fears, than now, where instead the idea of severe irreparable damage to the place everyone lives and the environment they depend on, a part of the civilization that's pretty much permanently ruined cos it was in the wrong part of that place, and everything SLOWLY COLLAPSING AND GOING TO , makes more sense, and is more relatable, with the fears of climate change, economic collapse, and resurgent fascism we have now... but still...
Don't YOU want to be the author of your army's story???
Don't YOU want to be the author of your army's story???
I'm unclear how this works. If I wanted to do that, I'd write fanfics. And honestly talking about game-based fanfics is like talking about dreams. No one else really cares.
That my <army> beats Bob's <army> today but loses tomorrow, mostly because of army building and/or dice isn't a narrative experience, and definitely isn't me 'authoring' the 'story.'
Its a game, one of dozens I might play in a given year, one of maybe millions played by various people. It has no context or consequence. It isn't related to the setting or the story (whether the latter exists or not). Hopefully playing the game is fun, but that's about all I expect out of it. A fun social experience while gaming. On a good game night, I'd hope to get a couple in.
The background pretty much has to be interesting in its own right, and enjoyable as a solo experience, because it isn't going to come up in game.
Which circles back around to PA. Its a horrible vehicle for setting, story and rules, because it doesn't linger long enough to establish anything, or give anyone a reason for acting. There isn't enough story or setting to matter, just some nameless worlds of no particular importance where various named characters don't really accomplish anything. Its just overpriced rules sheets for a couple factions at a time.
The few times GW has tried to get players involved in the 'narrative' of a world-wide campaign, they ignored, retconned and revised the results. This time, they aren't even trying (which seems at least more honest and wise).
Some eldar got in a slap fight, various people punched chaos forces in the face on a shrine world, and the 'so what?' question never even gets raised.
I like writing the story of my army, which is why I like a progressing storyline that they can also progress in. If the setting remains static, so does the story of my army. With events happening I can write my army into the fluff in how it reacts and deals with those events, getting to be a part of them rather than needing to shoehorn them into the defense of Cadia (that will always be stuck on its last stand regardless of what my army does) or have progression limited to XYZ homebrew system that can't have any greater affect on the galaxy at large.
Also, the AoS global campaigns were not ret-conned or ignored and actually did impact the setting in a significant way. There are even rules for sub-factions that only exist because they were successfully defended during a world campaign.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Also, the AoS global campaigns were not ret-conned or ignored and actually did impact the setting in a significant way. There are even rules for sub-factions that only exist because they were successfully defended during a world campaign.
I remember the Storm of Chaos in 2004 quite clearly. If GW had stuck by those results, big bad Archaon would've been turned into a spawn for that epic failure. That campaign literally could not have gone any worse for the Chaos forces.
nataliereed1984 wrote: You know, I cannot for the life of me get people complaining that 40k supplements don't move the plot forward along enough...
*uses walker to very, very slowly ascend up to the soapbox*
In MY day, it was implicitly understood that the plot didn't move! And dagnabbit, we didn't WANT it to!
40k was, is, and, Throne willing, ever SHALL be, a game for enjoying fun personalized narrative gaming with your friends!
It's not a cutthroat tournament game, and it's not an ongoing saga.
Spoiler:
The STORY is about YOU AND YOUR ARMY. The outcome of majour plot point is WHATEVER HAPPENS IN YOUR GAME.
For a solid 20 years or more (I think?) the biggest "story advancement" was "Oh no there's a bunch of undying, self-repairing, soulless Egypt-themed Terminators with ridiculously powerful weapons waking up!"… and even THAT was meant to feed to the one and ONLY "current" story point:
Everything was going really, really, really badly, and doomsday for the galaxy was right around the corner. It was just a question of HOW.
The exact same was true of Warhammer fantasy, too!
The clock was, for both settings, perpetually frozen at TWO! MINUTES! TO MIIIIIIIDNIGHT! The hands that threaten dooooooom!
Cadia and its allied Imperial forces were ALWAYS making a valiant last stand against the 13th Black Crusade, to hold the Cadian gate, because if Cadia fell, Chaos could swarm out of the Eye of Terror en masse, straight to Holy Terra! The Tyraids were ALWAYS overwhelming the Blood Angels, who (even with the aid of Necrons!) couldn't repel the massive swarm, and would likely soon be devoured! Daemons were ALWAYS threatening to breach Khaine's Gate, and spill forth into Comorragh to devour the souls of the Dark Eldar that had cheated them from their claim to their souls for so long! The Golden Throne was ALWAYS on the verge of flickering out! Thraka was ALWAYS pounding on Yarrick's gates! And so on.
How do the stories end? Well IT FRICKING DEPENDS:
Does your Chaos army beat your friend's Cadian IG army?
Does your Blood Angels army beat your friend's Tyranid army?
Does your Dark Eldar army beat your friend's Daemon army?
That was the point!!!!
If new stuff came along, that wasn't already part of the lore anyway, the general understanding was that it was just portions of the very very very big galaxy that had just not yet been described (as there's TONS of stuff that hasn't). Like the Tau Empire.
This was all done so the players had as much room to imagine and enjoy the story for themselves as possible. Just like "Oh there's 1000s of SM chapters!" and "We don't even KNOW who two of the Primarchs were!" and "Is the Emperor alive? Is He a God? Is he just a psyker? Is he actually a gross mouldy corpse on a chair and it's only the sacrificed psykers that keep the astronomicon going?".
The more GW answers, the more they tell the ongoing story themselves, the more that that is taken from us. Clearly they decided to shift their focus... which I dislike, PARTICULARLY as concerns the still raw wound of End Times... but just look at the silliness they've had to do to make this work in 40k: "All our big climactic events we held to for decades? All anticlimactically concluded, with NONE of them having any consequences anywhere NEAR the scale we said! Some had no real consequences at all! And also everyone inexplicably got the dates wrong, so that way we don't have to rename it 41k. Even though our current events span over a century. AND our normal human and T'au characters haven't aged a day in all that time! Even the ones who were already old-as-dirt, like Yarrick! But it's all good, because plot advancement!"
-ing SPARE ME.
I get that the idea of a SUDDEN apocalypse was more relevant in the 80s, with its Cold War fears, than now, where instead the idea of severe irreparable damage to the place everyone lives and the environment they depend on, a part of the civilization that's pretty much permanently ruined cos it was in the wrong part of that place, and everything SLOWLY COLLAPSING AND GOING TO , makes more sense, and is more relatable, with the fears of climate change, economic collapse, and resurgent fascism we have now... but still...
Don't YOU want to be the author of your army's story???
No, I don't feel any need to write self-insert/marty-stu/isekai/shipping fanfics about 40k because I am not a teenage girl.
The dice tell the story I want to hear. The rest is just noise.
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
I really don't think that's the last book. It's just the last of the second "wave", like Blood of Baal was the last of the first "wave". I don't know why people keep making this mistake…
Especially because GW posted a picture of all factions that would get something from PA and Custodes specifically had their symbol on it. Nothing for them yet save that there is a character coming down the line with a Sisters of Silence character (so I'm betting those will release with whatever PA book Custodes end up in).
Obvs agreed on your first point, but: I thought those two characters were meant to be a special, limited edition Black Library release, to coincide with their book?
What BrianDavion said. I'm betting it's all pretty close together, though I didn't know they were getting another BL book. It also explains why White Dwarf didn't give Sisters of Silence any new rules despite doing it for Assassins and Inquisition: they're what Custodes are getting in PA.
nataliereed1984 wrote: You know, I cannot for the life of me get people complaining that 40k supplements don't move the plot forward along enough...
*uses walker to very, very slowly ascend up to the soapbox*
In MY day, it was implicitly understood that the plot didn't move! And dagnabbit, we didn't WANT it to!
40k was, is, and, Throne willing, ever SHALL be, a game for enjoying fun personalized narrative gaming with your friends!
It's not a cutthroat tournament game, and it's not an ongoing saga.
Spoiler:
The STORY is about YOU AND YOUR ARMY. The outcome of majour plot point is WHATEVER HAPPENS IN YOUR GAME.
For a solid 20 years or more (I think?) the biggest "story advancement" was "Oh no there's a bunch of undying, self-repairing, soulless Egypt-themed Terminators with ridiculously powerful weapons waking up!"… and even THAT was meant to feed to the one and ONLY "current" story point:
Everything was going really, really, really badly, and doomsday for the galaxy was right around the corner. It was just a question of HOW.
The exact same was true of Warhammer fantasy, too!
The clock was, for both settings, perpetually frozen at TWO! MINUTES! TO MIIIIIIIDNIGHT! The hands that threaten dooooooom!
Cadia and its allied Imperial forces were ALWAYS making a valiant last stand against the 13th Black Crusade, to hold the Cadian gate, because if Cadia fell, Chaos could swarm out of the Eye of Terror en masse, straight to Holy Terra! The Tyraids were ALWAYS overwhelming the Blood Angels, who (even with the aid of Necrons!) couldn't repel the massive swarm, and would likely soon be devoured! Daemons were ALWAYS threatening to breach Khaine's Gate, and spill forth into Comorragh to devour the souls of the Dark Eldar that had cheated them from their claim to their souls for so long! The Golden Throne was ALWAYS on the verge of flickering out! Thraka was ALWAYS pounding on Yarrick's gates! And so on.
How do the stories end? Well IT FRICKING DEPENDS:
Does your Chaos army beat your friend's Cadian IG army?
Does your Blood Angels army beat your friend's Tyranid army?
Does your Dark Eldar army beat your friend's Daemon army?
That was the point!!!!
If new stuff came along, that wasn't already part of the lore anyway, the general understanding was that it was just portions of the very very very big galaxy that had just not yet been described (as there's TONS of stuff that hasn't). Like the Tau Empire.
This was all done so the players had as much room to imagine and enjoy the story for themselves as possible. Just like "Oh there's 1000s of SM chapters!" and "We don't even KNOW who two of the Primarchs were!" and "Is the Emperor alive? Is He a God? Is he just a psyker? Is he actually a gross mouldy corpse on a chair and it's only the sacrificed psykers that keep the astronomicon going?".
The more GW answers, the more they tell the ongoing story themselves, the more that that is taken from us. Clearly they decided to shift their focus... which I dislike, PARTICULARLY as concerns the still raw wound of End Times... but just look at the silliness they've had to do to make this work in 40k: "All our big climactic events we held to for decades? All anticlimactically concluded, with NONE of them having any consequences anywhere NEAR the scale we said! Some had no real consequences at all! And also everyone inexplicably got the dates wrong, so that way we don't have to rename it 41k. Even though our current events span over a century. AND our normal human and T'au characters haven't aged a day in all that time! Even the ones who were already old-as-dirt, like Yarrick! But it's all good, because plot advancement!"
-ing SPARE ME.
I get that the idea of a SUDDEN apocalypse was more relevant in the 80s, with its Cold War fears, than now, where instead the idea of severe irreparable damage to the place everyone lives and the environment they depend on, a part of the civilization that's pretty much permanently ruined cos it was in the wrong part of that place, and everything SLOWLY COLLAPSING AND GOING TO , makes more sense, and is more relatable, with the fears of climate change, economic collapse, and resurgent fascism we have now... but still...
Don't YOU want to be the author of your army's story???
No, I don't feel any need to write self-insert/marty-stu/isekai/shipping fanfics about 40k because I am not a teenage girl.
The dice tell the story I want to hear. The rest is just noise.
Yes, because that's exactly what writing your own bit of narrative entails. Hot lovin' between Yarrick and Ghazghkull. Or the Lay of the Fair Maiden Venomthrope.
(No, I don't know if either of those exist. And yes, I dread typing those in a search bar and finding out.)
It's just creatively exploring the setting, and producing your own story instead of participating in somebody else's. Using custom characters with names, traits and a history instead of the blank chess pieces they otherwise are.
Fine if you like the game for being the game. I'm not saying you lack imagination, or are otherwise wrong for doing that. But let's not pretend that at the end of the day, we're not just playing with a bunch of plastic soldiers. Like proper adults. (Because it's a grimdark setting that's a socio-political commentary, and wargames are highly strategic beyond their entertainment value. Or something. Anyway, my Battle Nuns are shooting at your Bloodskullblooddaemon, that's 15 dice needing 3s... *makes pew pew noises* ...)
I think at the end of the day, PA was just NuGW doing their usual thing of hyping things up immensely and then the majority of people were let down when it wasn't a bang, but a whimper. The PA 'campaign' was built up as the biggest thing since sliced bre- uhh, the 13th Black Crusade, but then their marketing changed tact when it became apparent it wouldn't be, and is now just "Wow if you're a loyalist Marine player these are like the bestist books ever for rules, wow!" with narry a mention of lore save the trailers.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I like writing the story of my army, which is why I like a progressing storyline that they can also progress in. If the setting remains static, so does the story of my army. With events happening I can write my army into the fluff in how it reacts and deals with those events, getting to be a part of them rather than needing to shoehorn them into the defense of Cadia (that will always be stuck on its last stand regardless of what my army does) or have progression limited to XYZ homebrew system that can't have any greater affect on the galaxy at large.
Also, the AoS global campaigns were not ret-conned or ignored and actually did impact the setting in a significant way. There are even rules for sub-factions that only exist because they were successfully defended during a world campaign.
You mean the campaign where a faction could gain points by buying models, back when 90% of releases were Sigmarines and 10% Sylvaneth? When WHFB players were still largely angry and not playing it, so the new blood was all playing Order? There was no way that Order weren't going to win and GW knew it.
I'll grant you that Malign Portents was decent though, but very much being choose-your-own-adventure and the Necroquake occuring at the end anyway, the end was always written.
Didn’t GW report in a twitch stream that all of the Psychic Awakening takes place during the Indomitus Crusade? If they were telling the truth then this is charter 2 with the 13th Black Crusade/ end of 7th edition being the first and the Dark Imperium/ beginning of 8th edition the third. So it looks like this series is more like the Horus Heresy, we know the ending we’re just getting the middles filled in.
Not so far as I'm aware, Lazarus came about after the indomitus ended, because Balthazar died in the period of the indomintus campaign (though he is not explicitly said to be part of it). Another big hint is that this is happening after the events covered in the DA codex, which was a hundred+ years after the crusade.
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
Has there been confirmation 6th being last? Seems last 2 books would have to have tons of factions crammed. Dg, necron, ork, wolves, deathwatch, tau, ig, custodian, harlequin, gsc maybe. Others? 9 at least.
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
Has there been confirmation 6th being last? Seems last 2 books would have to have tons of factions crammed. Dg, necron, ork, wolves, deathwatch, tau, ig, custodian, harlequin, gsc maybe. Others? 9 at least.
Admech
Daemons
Knights (and chaos) methinks
No fething way that book 6 is the last book. too many factions left.
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
Has there been confirmation 6th being last? Seems last 2 books would have to have tons of factions crammed. Dg, necron, ork, wolves, deathwatch, tau, ig, custodian, harlequin, gsc maybe. Others? 9 at least.
Admech
Daemons
Knights (and chaos) methinks
No fething way that book 6 is the last book. too many factions left.
It's also unclear if Harlequin's have gotten their content yet... I don't think they are mentioned at all in the actual Phoenix Rising book but they appeared in one of the short stories leading up to it and the named Shadowseer was in a couple of the teaser trailers.
*edit: just realized harlequins were already mentioned above...
Disappointed that the next book won't be out in time for the LVO deadline, probably by just 1 week. Would have been nice to see if DA and GK had enough going for them to reward their inclusion in the event.
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
Has there been confirmation 6th being last? Seems last 2 books would have to have tons of factions crammed. Dg, necron, ork, wolves, deathwatch, tau, ig, custodian, harlequin, gsc maybe. Others? 9 at least.
Admech
Daemons
Knights (and chaos) methinks
No fething way that book 6 is the last book. too many factions left.
They can cram a few pages of names for most factions quite easily. Only Marines are getting (decent) supplement level support - otherwise its pot luck.
I'd assume we're getting two more after Saga of the Beast (PA6), that one should drop in march so another two would be april & may. Give it a month or so breathing room and we're in July for 9th.
It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out in the end but I'm thinking at least one of the remaining PAs will be a bigger release, with a boxset tie in. I'm sort of assuming it's PA6 since we've had a few very orky looking rumour engines (plus the mystery of the KFF big mek). That'd make sense as well considering I doubt they'd release a boxset too close upon the release of 9th and its inevitable boxset.
bullyboy wrote: Disappointed that the next book won't be out in time for the LVO deadline, probably by just 1 week. Would have been nice to see if DA and GK had enough going for them to reward their inclusion in the event.
Don't worry there's plenty of time to be disappointed when the new rules actually hit, see Tyranids.
I think at the end of the day, PA was just NuGW doing their usual thing of hyping things up immensely and then the majority of people were let down when it wasn't a bang, but a whimper. The PA 'campaign' was built up as the biggest thing since sliced bre- uhh, the 13th Black Crusade, but then their marketing changed tact when it became apparent it wouldn't be, and is now just "Wow if you're a loyalist Marine player these are like the bestist books ever for rules, wow!" with narry a mention of lore save the trailers.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I like writing the story of my army, which is why I like a progressing storyline that they can also progress in. If the setting remains static, so does the story of my army. With events happening I can write my army into the fluff in how it reacts and deals with those events, getting to be a part of them rather than needing to shoehorn them into the defense of Cadia (that will always be stuck on its last stand regardless of what my army does) or have progression limited to XYZ homebrew system that can't have any greater affect on the galaxy at large.
Also, the AoS global campaigns were not ret-conned or ignored and actually did impact the setting in a significant way. There are even rules for sub-factions that only exist because they were successfully defended during a world campaign.
You mean the campaign where a faction could gain points by buying models, back when 90% of releases were Sigmarines and 10% Sylvaneth? When WHFB players were still largely angry and not playing it, so the new blood was all playing Order? There was no way that Order weren't going to win and GW knew it.
I'll grant you that Malign Portents was decent though, but very much being choose-your-own-adventure and the Necroquake occuring at the end anyway, the end was always written.
The one which had two Destruction battletomes released during it and one of the cities survived by only a few percentage points, where the degree of Order victory was written into subsequent fluff beyond just that they won. Yeah, that campaign.
Didn’t GW report in a twitch stream that all of the Psychic Awakening takes place during the Indomitus Crusade? If they were telling the truth then this is charter 2 with the 13th Black Crusade/ end of 7th edition being the first and the Dark Imperium/ beginning of 8th edition the third. So it looks like this series is more like the Horus Heresy, we know the ending we’re just getting the middles filled in.
Not so far as I'm aware, Lazarus came about after the indomitus ended, because Balthazar died in the period of the indomintus campaign (though he is not explicitly said to be part of it). Another big hint is that this is happening after the events covered in the DA codex, which was a hundred+ years after the crusade.
GW has explicitly said these take place during the indomitus crusade.
keep in mind the Indomatus crusade is, kinda sortta still ongoing. the entire post GS era is refered to as the "era indomatus" so that doesn't mean much, also we don't know many details of the indomatus crusade, there's a LOT of room for stuff to happen. we know for a FACT the crusade suffered losses and defeats
The Indomitus Crusade came to end back in Dark Imperium. Guilliman held a triumph and declared it over. Officially and everything, dispersing the various armies and chapters to new assignments (though some he took with him to Ultramar to fight Typhus and Morty)
It's one of the first things that happens in that book.
Devastation of Baal happened after that and Blood of Baal happened after DoB.
Unless there are already major retcons going on, PA as a whole is post crusade... but someone's going to have to source it better than 'maybe someone working for GW might have said something in a twitch stream.' Do none of the PA books have dates?
Also keep in mind that the indomatus crusade wasn't just one big fleet. accompanying Gulliman, rather it was ten individual large fleets made up of multiple battlegroups.each with their own process of seeing to their own logistics etc. that combined with the nature of warp travel, communications issues etc means something like the indomatus crusade doesn't just stop when called to, I'd argue stopping all crusade elements is, proably impossiable, and Gulliman admits that his "crusade end" was more so the IoM can point to a event and say "it ended victoriously here yay" in the history books.
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
Has there been confirmation 6th being last? Seems last 2 books would have to have tons of factions crammed. Dg, necron, ork, wolves, deathwatch, tau, ig, custodian, harlequin, gsc maybe. Others? 9 at least.
Admech
Daemons
Knights (and chaos) methinks
No fething way that book 6 is the last book. too many factions left.
They can cram a few pages of names for most factions quite easily. Only Marines are getting (decent) supplement level support - otherwise its pot luck.
Sorry but less hyperbole please. Don't want to appear totally ridiculous do we?
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
Has there been confirmation 6th being last? Seems last 2 books would have to have tons of factions crammed. Dg, necron, ork, wolves, deathwatch, tau, ig, custodian, harlequin, gsc maybe. Others? 9 at least.
Admech
Daemons
Knights (and chaos) methinks
No fething way that book 6 is the last book. too many factions left.
They can cram a few pages of names for most factions quite easily. Only Marines are getting (decent) supplement level support - otherwise its pot luck.
Sorry but less hyperbole please. Don't want to appear totally ridiculous do we?
I think its an accurate description. We have so far had, know about:
Full Supplements for Blood Angels and Black Templars, new Mephiston model, Dark Angel supplement coming, 10 pages of extra rules, strats and relics for generic Marines, Grey Knights getting bits and pieces.
New rules, strats, relics for Chaos Marines - oh and name pages! Chaos Marine Sorcerer, Thousand Sons getting new options for Sorcerers.
Other than Marines we have:
Craftworld Eldar - rules updates for Banshees and 1 Phoenix Lord, new models for same,Craftworld Craits.
Dark Eldar: rules update for Drazar and Incubi, new models for same, bad traits for Kabals etc
Tyranids got new relics, strats Hive fleet options
Anyone else get anything yet?
GW can just give a page of names and claim that faction got "something", or even just point to the narrative/secnario elements and still live up to the letter of their statement that everyone will get something
They can cram a few pages of names for most factions quite easily. Only Marines are getting (decent) supplement level support - otherwise its pot luck.
Sorry but less hyperbole please. Don't want to appear totally ridiculous do we?
Indeed. I still have several different army lists written up for Tyranid units that now look playable thanks to PA3. Soooo many more options to choose from!
It's also unclear if Harlequin's have gotten their content yet... I don't think they are mentioned at all in the actual Phoenix Rising book but they appeared in one of the short stories leading up to it and the named Shadowseer was in a couple of the teaser trailers.
*edit: just realized harlequins were already mentioned above...
If I was going to bet on one Xenos faction getting a new model from PA...
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
Has there been confirmation 6th being last? Seems last 2 books would have to have tons of factions crammed. Dg, necron, ork, wolves, deathwatch, tau, ig, custodian, harlequin, gsc maybe. Others? 9 at least.
Admech
Daemons
Knights (and chaos) methinks
No fething way that book 6 is the last book. too many factions left.
They can cram a few pages of names for most factions quite easily. Only Marines are getting (decent) supplement level support - otherwise its pot luck.
Sorry but less hyperbole please. Don't want to appear totally ridiculous do we?
They can cram a few pages of names for most factions quite easily. Only Marines are getting (decent) supplement level support - otherwise its pot luck.
Sorry but less hyperbole please. Don't want to appear totally ridiculous do we?
Indeed. I still have several different army lists written up for Tyranid units that now look playable thanks to PA3. Soooo many more options to choose from!
It's also unclear if Harlequin's have gotten their content yet... I don't think they are mentioned at all in the actual Phoenix Rising book but they appeared in one of the short stories leading up to it and the named Shadowseer was in a couple of the teaser trailers.
*edit: just realized harlequins were already mentioned above...
If I was going to bet on one Xenos faction getting a new model from PA...
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
Has there been confirmation 6th being last? Seems last 2 books would have to have tons of factions crammed. Dg, necron, ork, wolves, deathwatch, tau, ig, custodian, harlequin, gsc maybe. Others? 9 at least.
Admech
Daemons
Knights (and chaos) methinks
No fething way that book 6 is the last book. too many factions left.
They can cram a few pages of names for most factions quite easily. Only Marines are getting (decent) supplement level support - otherwise its pot luck.
Sorry but less hyperbole please. Don't want to appear totally ridiculous do we?
I think its an accurate description. We have so far had, know about:
Full Supplements for Blood Angels and Black Templars, new Mephiston model, Dark Angel supplement coming, 10 pages of extra rules, strats and relics for generic Marines, Grey Knights getting bits and pieces.
New rules, strats, relics for Chaos Marines - oh and name pages! Chaos Marine Sorcerer, Thousand Sons getting new options for Sorcerers.
Other than Marines we have:
Craftworld Eldar - rules updates for Banshees and 1 Phoenix Lord, new models for same,Craftworld Craits.
Dark Eldar: rules update for Drazar and Incubi, new models for same, bad traits for Kabals etc
Tyranids got new relics, strats Hive fleet options
Anyone else get anything yet?
GW can just give a page of names and claim that faction got "something", or even just point to the narrative/secnario elements and still live up to the letter of their statement that everyone will get something
So your list is that basically the marine books get brought to parity and other factions are getting expanded flavourful rules, including diy factions, strats, relics warlord traits and new mechanics.
I saw this on reddit earlier, I'm really not sure what to make of it. To be so pixelated that must be zoomed in to a massive degree from a bigger image, or it's fake.
If they're not fake, what are the odds they belong in a 8.5/9th ed starter?
Geez GeeDubs give previous releases some time to simmer, miniatures ain't like movies where you spend a few hours with them and then just be done with them.
Franticly barfing out more and more leads to exhaustion of both customer and producer.
We'll find out in a few days. If this is something more then some guy's kitbashed impulsor or something I expect now that the image has leaked GW'll make some sort of announcement on WHC within the next 24 hours.
I saw this on reddit earlier, I'm really not sure what to make of it. To be so pixelated that must be zoomed in to a massive degree from a bigger image, or it's fake.
If they're not fake, what are the odds they belong in a 8.5/9th ed starter?
So far every image based primaris leak has been true. So doubt its fake.
Lol to space marine players who are going to have an obsolete codex rolling into the new year. Congrats to white scar primaris players, your dreams are coming true.
keep in mind assuming that imagine is true, it could be blood angels only (I doubt it but all we know is it's in BA colours) also, we're marine players we're USED to getting new stuff outside our codex...
it's honestly not that big a deal
but yeah WHC's resp[onse time being what it is I expect if it's legit we'll know within 24 hours
The Phazer wrote: Some of the "sleeper" hints that people have assumed are the Emperor could be about the Lion I guess.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if PA is effectively a countdown to a Primarch coming back as the intro to 9th, just as Gathering Storm was to 8th, but it's definitely been weaker at building tension so far. Then again, if you assume that the last book would bring that to a head then you'd assume that it would be Russ with it being SW related.
Has there been confirmation 6th being last? Seems last 2 books would have to have tons of factions crammed. Dg, necron, ork, wolves, deathwatch, tau, ig, custodian, harlequin, gsc maybe. Others? 9 at least.
Admech
Daemons
Knights (and chaos) methinks
No fething way that book 6 is the last book. too many factions left.
They can cram a few pages of names for most factions quite easily. Only Marines are getting (decent) supplement level support - otherwise its pot luck.
Sorry but less hyperbole please. Don't want to appear totally ridiculous do we?
I think its an accurate description. We have so far had, know about:
Full Supplements for Blood Angels and Black Templars, new Mephiston model, Dark Angel supplement coming, 10 pages of extra rules, strats and relics for generic Marines, Grey Knights getting bits and pieces.
New rules, strats, relics for Chaos Marines - oh and name pages! Chaos Marine Sorcerer, Thousand Sons getting new options for Sorcerers.
Other than Marines we have:
Craftworld Eldar - rules updates for Banshees and 1 Phoenix Lord, new models for same,Craftworld Craits.
Dark Eldar: rules update for Drazar and Incubi, new models for same, bad traits for Kabals etc
Tyranids got new relics, strats Hive fleet options
Anyone else get anything yet?
GW can just give a page of names and claim that faction got "something", or even just point to the narrative/secnario elements and still live up to the letter of their statement that everyone will get something
So your list is that basically the marine books get brought to parity and other factions are getting expanded flavourful rules, including diy factions, strats, relics warlord traits and new mechanics.
well parity with each other I guess............ Dark eldar really did not get that - Tyranids seem to have done well. My actual point was people should not be expecting Marine tier support.
Looks like a new.....Marine...skimmer - if true something else that should have been in the actual Codex like the generic rules for Marines in PA2?
Oh man just what 40k needed rn more space marines. I thought for SURE the fact that we got a frigging ork boot in the recent rumor mill might mean we could be getting something, anything for anybody else...but no. Of course it's more marines. because we don't have a flyer with a PRIMARIS marine in the cockpit yet, we just have twelve marine flyers with REGULAR marines modeled in the cockpit! The tiny helmet bit that nobody ever sees is all wrong, and they don't even have any stubbers!
BrianDavion wrote: well just so long as it doesn't mean another 6 month long marine release wave.
That seems likely - we have to have model/s for Space Wolves and maybe Deathwatch, plus any other Chapters they decide need a supplement.
We know we are getting a Flyer for Ad Mech - with the possible new Marine skimmer maybe they are doing an air based box set like the coming AOS one?
that strikes me as the most likely. Maybe a death from the skies expansion set? a flier IS one of the things Marine players have been saying they'd like to see for Primaris. and a number of armies out there would benifit from having a flier added. Off the top of my head...
Custodes
Sisters of Battle
Admech (we know it's coming)
Gene Stealer cults (I'd LOOOOVE to see them given some sort of armed civilian flier model)
Harliquins (I think)
Chaos Marines in general (yes they have the dragon but a transport's kinda an obvious hole)
so that's about a half dozen armies that could be a good months of release based around some sort of special boxed set event if GW was of a mind
Space Marine haters may as well buckle up and face the inevitable.
In that picture, there are new bikes, a new speeder, a new Gravis model in top left corner, a new tank (maybe 2 if one to right is different).
I think it is safe to say that when all this is released, the old marine line is finished. We knew it was coming (despite detractors), but I hoped it was just a few more years. I can still keep playing my oldies in narrative for sure, but they mostly have been outclassed by the new models.
Time to get as much play out of my Ravenwing and Deathwing this year as I can.
JSG wrote: Eyes are already welling up, tears ready to flow. Please God let this leak be true.
If primaris can get new bikers then there is still hope that chaos will get the same. Or at least I can put new chaos marines in biggerized primaris bikes.
bullyboy wrote: Space Marine haters may as well buckle up and face the inevitable.
In that picture, there are new bikes, a new speeder, a new Gravis model in top left corner, a new tank (maybe 2 if one to right is different).
I think it is safe to say that when all this is released, the old marine line is finished. We knew it was coming (despite detractors), but I hoped it was just a few more years. I can still keep playing my oldies in narrative for sure, but they mostly have been outclassed by the new models.
Time to get as much play out of my Ravenwing and Deathwing this year as I can.
\
Hopefully you have some fluffy Thousand Sons players in your area.. I always have REALLY good games against Deathwing/Ravenwing lists.. I run Rubrics and Sorcerers, not Magnus + Tzaangors and the like.
JSG wrote: Eyes are already welling up, tears ready to flow. Please God let this leak be true.
If primaris can get new bikers then there is still hope that chaos will get the same. Or at least I can put new chaos marines in biggerized primaris bikes.
Here's hoping . Personally I'm looking forward to a plastic Ghaz, though I wouldn't say no to those bikes if real.
Honestly, I was waiting for the releases to come that would actually directly REPLACE marine stuff. We've had the Dreadnought, we've had...I guess tactical marines? no options, but they kinda do the same job. Aggressors are terminator-esque, but for some reason they looked at those chonky boys and thought "hmmm, no, let's not give them the 2+ armor save that would make them proper termie replacements"
Inceptors are definitely not assault marines. Reivers are sort of scouts, but they again flattened them out and crammed them into the 3+ armor slot. We've yet to see any really assault-focused primaris unit outside of one of the two options from the box in Reivers.
We still have no Primaris units with many of the most iconic weapons that space marines have had. no primaris melta, no primaris Grav, no primaris lascannons, no primaris Chainswords, no primaris storm shields, no primaris thunder hammers (Yes, I know that there's a random bit on some upgrade sprue somewhere, I mean a unit actually equipped with those things). No replacement for Vindicators, assault terminators, land speeders bikers Devastators Assault Marines Predators
If there's gonna be a primaris release...again, I'd much rather see it be a release that brings us closer to the day when a space marine player can just take his army and say "OK, now all these dudes count as the Primaris equivalent".
Part of the reason I'm so vocally annoyed by these endless primaris marine releases is because I actually give a gak about a bunch of marine players who have been getting endlessly shafted by Primaris bullcrap since the start of the edition, the entire structural core of their armies getting hosed so GW can try to force them into buying primaris stuff instead. We had two space marine players with drop pod armies just straight up quit at the start of the edition.
In that picture, there are new bikes, a new speeder, a new Gravis model in top left corner, a new tank (maybe 2 if one to right is different).
A tank and a speeder sure. But are you sure the bikes are new? It is so pixelated that they could just be the old ones. Also, the 'gravis' is kinda iffy as well.
JSG wrote: Eyes are already welling up, tears ready to flow. Please God let this leak be true.
Probably worth noting that this is a pre-emptive message for the people who are vocal about the marine support. Expect it, don't whine about it and let it pass.
If we're lucky this could be classic marines being squatted, plus if this is real we have no context for what/where/when this release is for.
In that picture, there are new bikes, a new speeder, a new Gravis model in top left corner, a new tank (maybe 2 if one to right is different).
A tank and a speeder sure. But are you sure the bikes are new? It is so pixelated that they could just be the old ones. Also, the 'gravis' is kinda iffy as well.
Those bikes are huge and more like a chopper compared to the current ones imo.
In that picture, there are new bikes, a new speeder, a new Gravis model in top left corner, a new tank (maybe 2 if one to right is different).
A tank and a speeder sure. But are you sure the bikes are new? It is so pixelated that they could just be the old ones. Also, the 'gravis' is kinda iffy as well.
To me the bikes look longer, with two passengers each. I guess making every bike an attack bike would make the new stuff different enough.
In that picture, there are new bikes, a new speeder, a new Gravis model in top left corner, a new tank (maybe 2 if one to right is different).
A tank and a speeder sure. But are you sure the bikes are new? It is so pixelated that they could just be the old ones. Also, the 'gravis' is kinda iffy as well.
To me the bikes look longer, with two passengers each. I guess making every bike an attack bike would make the new stuff different enough.
Oh man I hope so, I am totally writing a custom ruleset for a game of hyper-chicken between my Harlequin bikes and numarine bikes if that's true.
In that picture, there are new bikes, a new speeder, a new Gravis model in top left corner, a new tank (maybe 2 if one to right is different).
A tank and a speeder sure. But are you sure the bikes are new? It is so pixelated that they could just be the old ones. Also, the 'gravis' is kinda iffy as well.
Definitely new bikers. Those bases are the large ovals. Space Marines bikes are on the 75mm oval, those in the picture are definitely 90mm ovals.
BrianDavion wrote: well just so long as it doesn't mean another 6 month long marine release wave.
That seems likely - we have to have model/s for Space Wolves and maybe Deathwatch, plus any other Chapters they decide need a supplement.
We know we are getting a Flyer for Ad Mech - with the possible new Marine skimmer maybe they are doing an air based box set like the coming AOS one?
that strikes me as the most likely. Maybe a death from the skies expansion set? a flier IS one of the things Marine players have been saying they'd like to see for Primaris. and a number of armies out there would benifit from having a flier added. Off the top of my head...
Custodes
Sisters of Battle
Admech (we know it's coming)
Gene Stealer cults (I'd LOOOOVE to see them given some sort of armed civilian flier model)
Harliquins (I think)
Chaos Marines in general (yes they have the dragon but a transport's kinda an obvious hole)
so that's about a half dozen armies that could be a good months of release based around some sort of special boxed set event if GW was of a mind
Custodes have Forge World flyers IIRC - making them more official or plastic would be welcomed - especially when you look at GW designed flyers - exception the new Ad Mech one!
Sisters - a converted blinged Valykryire would be nice - just cos the model is cool
Cults - yep upgunner Arcus lifters and the cool shuttle whose name I forget
Harlequins - they should have one agreed - just for aeriel displays
CSMarines - well still waiting fot the drop pod but yep they should have them.
but others think its just a wave after wave of Primaris Marines - again.
Eh, kinda mixed about this reveal. It fills a role missing in the all-primaris line up, but the fatigue of Space Marine launches is already reaching a boiling point among groups. If they're smart about it, this'll be the next wave launched in the summer, but I get the feeling it's going to be in the vanilla Space Marine Psychic Awakening supplement. Either way though, it gives even more ammunition for those who desire varied releases.
Darsath wrote: Eh, kinda mixed about this reveal. It fills a role missing in the all-primaris line up, but the fatigue of Space Marine launches is already reaching a boiling point among groups. If they're smart about it, this'll be the next wave launched in the summer, but I get the feeling it's going to be in the vanilla Space Marine Psychic Awakening supplement. Either way though, it gives even more ammunition for those who desire varied releases.
Faith and fury was the vanilla supplement, my guess is these will come with the revised/next edition.
Darsath wrote: Eh, kinda mixed about this reveal. It fills a role missing in the all-primaris line up, but the fatigue of Space Marine launches is already reaching a boiling point among groups. If they're smart about it, this'll be the next wave launched in the summer, but I get the feeling it's going to be in the vanilla Space Marine Psychic Awakening supplement. Either way though, it gives even more ammunition for those who desire varied releases.
If we look at Primaris as just more of the same, yeah I could get the fatigue, but if we're being honest, Primaris is a whole new army/model line. It's like if this website had been around back then, people would be on here constantly complaining about new Tau models coming out within the first couple years of their release.
The writing is on the wall for the old marines. Their time is done.
Darsath wrote: Eh, kinda mixed about this reveal. It fills a role missing in the all-primaris line up, but the fatigue of Space Marine launches is already reaching a boiling point among groups. If they're smart about it, this'll be the next wave launched in the summer, but I get the feeling it's going to be in the vanilla Space Marine Psychic Awakening supplement. Either way though, it gives even more ammunition for those who desire varied releases.
If we look at Primaris as just more of the same, yeah I could get the fatigue, but if we're being honest, Primaris is a whole new army/model line. It's like if this website had been around back then, people would be on here constantly complaining about new Tau models coming out within the first couple years of their release.
The writing is on the wall for the old marines. Their time is done.
I remember at the start of 8th edition, Games Workshop were very adamant that the new line was not intended to replace the old models. I find it shocking how willing people are to accept being lied to so brazenly. I'd be furious if it were me.
Darsath wrote: Eh, kinda mixed about this reveal. It fills a role missing in the all-primaris line up, but the fatigue of Space Marine launches is already reaching a boiling point among groups. If they're smart about it, this'll be the next wave launched in the summer, but I get the feeling it's going to be in the vanilla Space Marine Psychic Awakening supplement. Either way though, it gives even more ammunition for those who desire varied releases.
If we look at Primaris as just more of the same, yeah I could get the fatigue, but if we're being honest, Primaris is a whole new army/model line. It's like if this website had been around back then, people would be on here constantly complaining about new Tau models coming out within the first couple years of their release.
The writing is on the wall for the old marines. Their time is done.
Yeah, a whole new army line replacing the most up-to-date army line in the entire game. I still chuckle every time someone says "OLD marines" when I look at the troop kits for half the factions I play. If the tactical marine kit is "old" what the feth are Cadians/Guardians/Termagants?
If we look at Primaris as just more of the same, yeah I could get the fatigue, but if we're being honest, Primaris is a whole new army/model line. It's like if this website had been around back then, people would be on here constantly complaining about new Tau models coming out within the first couple years of their release.
The writing is on the wall for the old marines. Their time is done.
Yep. Having half the army to be old and ugly sculpts is just awkward. Sooner everything gets Primarised the better. The problem is that marines have more units than anyone else, so updating everything requires hella lot of releases.
Darsath wrote: Eh, kinda mixed about this reveal. It fills a role missing in the all-primaris line up, but the fatigue of Space Marine launches is already reaching a boiling point among groups. If they're smart about it, this'll be the next wave launched in the summer, but I get the feeling it's going to be in the vanilla Space Marine Psychic Awakening supplement. Either way though, it gives even more ammunition for those who desire varied releases.
If we look at Primaris as just more of the same, yeah I could get the fatigue, but if we're being honest, Primaris is a whole new army/model line. It's like if this website had been around back then, people would be on here constantly complaining about new Tau models coming out within the first couple years of their release.
The writing is on the wall for the old marines. Their time is done.
Yeah, a whole new army line replacing the most up-to-date army line in the entire game. I still chuckle every time someone says "OLD marines" when I look at the troop kits for half the factions I play. If the tactical marine kit is "old" what the feth are Cadians/Guardians/Termagants?
This is what gets me most.
Marines are rounding out and entirely new plastic army to replace their already complete and updated plastic army.
Where as half the Eldar and Dark Eldar armies still havent been updated to plastic!
Hell only knows how old the plastic Guardsmen and Orks are.
GW laser focus on Marines never used to bother me so much, but even I'm kinda at my limits.
Darsath wrote: Eh, kinda mixed about this reveal. It fills a role missing in the all-primaris line up, but the fatigue of Space Marine launches is already reaching a boiling point among groups. If they're smart about it, this'll be the next wave launched in the summer, but I get the feeling it's going to be in the vanilla Space Marine Psychic Awakening supplement. Either way though, it gives even more ammunition for those who desire varied releases.
I'd love to see a more varied release schedule with roughly equal releases for the various factions. I don't think that's ever going to happen, though. I'm a Necron player and have no interest in starting a new army from scratch. If the allies rules allowed me to add other faction units to my army, I'd probably be more excited to hear about non-Necron stuff. As it stands, I just see a bunch of stuff that isn't for me. Other than the odd resin to plastic replacement model, I haven't seen an actual new unit in years. It's really hard to stay interested in a game when you go years in between seeing a new release that gives you new army build options.
GaroRobe wrote: I'd be surprised if we got a reveal today. They're probably saving it for the open day in less than a week
Yeah. Dec. 25 was hardly a 'full reveal' to me, though, and I'm sure many others feel the same way (especially DA, GK and TS).
Three short stories are up for Ritual of the Damned, with zero rules content between them. The other books weren't like that.. Open Day reveals better be fantastic.
I do feel the need to remind us on the point that this could be a fake. If true, then obviously Games Workshop wouldn't feel any need to post anything.
Darsath wrote: Eh, kinda mixed about this reveal. It fills a role missing in the all-primaris line up, but the fatigue of Space Marine launches is already reaching a boiling point among groups. If they're smart about it, this'll be the next wave launched in the summer, but I get the feeling it's going to be in the vanilla Space Marine Psychic Awakening supplement. Either way though, it gives even more ammunition for those who desire varied releases.
I'd love to see a more varied release schedule with roughly equal releases for the various factions. I don't think that's ever going to happen, though. I'm a Necron player and have no interest in starting a new army from scratch. If the allies rules allowed me to add other faction units to my army, I'd probably be more excited to hear about non-Necron stuff. As it stands, I just see a bunch of stuff that isn't for me. Other than the odd resin to plastic replacement model, I haven't seen an actual new unit in years. It's really hard to stay interested in a game when you go years in between seeing a new release that gives you new army build options.
Funny, I actually prefer that. I'd rather have a stable army 5-8 years than throw money away on a few pages of increasingly temporary books
Darsath wrote:I do feel the need to remind us on the point that this could be a fake. If true, then obviously Games Workshop wouldn't feel any need to post anything.
Agreed. That's pixelated to the point of absurdity, to the point that it has to be intentional.
Which makes it easy to hide faked or stretched models.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: Did Deathwatch get anything in one of the earler books? Did i wiss ir, or will it be in this last book with SoS and the rest of the orphan rules?
The list of Psychic Awakening books we have right now is not the totality of the releases. Deathwatch are probably just going to be a later release.
I hope the new vehicle is named the Primaris Infenestrator. If the guard are the hammer of the emperor, and the Space Marines the sword, this vehicle is the thrown brick through the windows of the enemies of mankind!
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: Did Deathwatch get anything in one of the earler books? Did i wiss ir, or will it be in this last book with SoS and the rest of the orphan rules?
The list of Psychic Awakening books we have right now is not the totality of the releases. Deathwatch are probably just going to be a later release.
The guy on the French 40k forum who posted early PA2/3 info has another post today (via google translate):
A source indicates that the Tome 6 would not be Orks Vs Wolfs as leaks had previously announced.
Orks yes but not Wolf.
It seems that it will be the DW given the echoes of the awakening
To be fair you could (and I would) argue that the marine base design needed updated more than some of the other factions. It was when they released Cadians that I became unhappy with the marine scale and I stopped painting them around then. It was only the release of Primaris marines that got me back into space marines. So by my reckoning, marines have been in need of an update for 10+ years.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: Did Deathwatch get anything in one of the earler books? Did i wiss ir, or will it be in this last book with SoS and the rest of the orphan rules?
The list of Psychic Awakening books we have right now is not the totality of the releases. Deathwatch are probably just going to be a later release.
The guy on the French 40k forum who posted early PA2/3 info has another post today (via google translate):
A source indicates that the Tome 6 would not be Orks Vs Wolfs as leaks had previously announced.
Orks yes but not Wolf.
It seems that it will be the DW given the echoes of the awakening
I don't believe this. GW already revealed the title of book 6 to be "Saga of the Beast". I can't recall any instance of "saga" not related to SWs.
nataliereed1984 wrote: You know, I cannot for the life of me get people complaining that 40k supplements don't move the plot forward along enough...
*uses walker to very, very slowly ascend up to the soapbox*
In MY day, it was implicitly understood that the plot didn't move! And dagnabbit, we didn't WANT it to!
40k was, is, and, Throne willing, ever SHALL be, a game for enjoying fun personalized narrative gaming with your friends!
It's not a cutthroat tournament game, and it's not an ongoing saga.
The STORY is about YOU AND YOUR ARMY. The outcome of majour plot point is WHATEVER HAPPENS IN YOUR GAME.
For a solid 20 years or more (I think?) the biggest "story advancement" was "Oh no there's a bunch of undying, self-repairing, soulless Egypt-themed Terminators with ridiculously powerful weapons waking up!"… and even THAT was meant to feed to the one and ONLY "current" story point:
Everything was going really, really, really badly, and doomsday for the galaxy was right around the corner. It was just a question of HOW.
The exact same was true of Warhammer fantasy, too!
The clock was, for both settings, perpetually frozen at TWO! MINUTES! TO MIIIIIIIDNIGHT! The hands that threaten dooooooom!
Cadia and its allied Imperial forces were ALWAYS making a valiant last stand against the 13th Black Crusade, to hold the Cadian gate, because if Cadia fell, Chaos could swarm out of the Eye of Terror en masse, straight to Holy Terra! The Tyraids were ALWAYS overwhelming the Blood Angels, who (even with the aid of Necrons!) couldn't repel the massive swarm, and would likely soon be devoured! Daemons were ALWAYS threatening to breach Khaine's Gate, and spill forth into Comorragh to devour the souls of the Dark Eldar that had cheated them from their claim to their souls for so long! The Golden Throne was ALWAYS on the verge of flickering out! Thraka was ALWAYS pounding on Yarrick's gates! And so on.
How do the stories end? Well IT FRICKING DEPENDS:
Does your Chaos army beat your friend's Cadian IG army?
Does your Blood Angels army beat your friend's Tyranid army?
Does your Dark Eldar army beat your friend's Daemon army?
That was the point!!!!
If new stuff came along, that wasn't already part of the lore anyway, the general understanding was that it was just portions of the very very very big galaxy that had just not yet been described (as there's TONS of stuff that hasn't). Like the Tau Empire.
This was all done so the players had as much room to imagine and enjoy the story for themselves as possible. Just like "Oh there's 1000s of SM chapters!" and "We don't even KNOW who two of the Primarchs were!" and "Is the Emperor alive? Is He a God? Is he just a psyker? Is he actually a gross mouldy corpse on a chair and it's only the sacrificed psykers that keep the astronomicon going?".
The more GW answers, the more they tell the ongoing story themselves, the more that that is taken from us. Clearly they decided to shift their focus... which I dislike, PARTICULARLY as concerns the still raw wound of End Times... but just look at the silliness they've had to do to make this work in 40k: "All our big climactic events we held to for decades? All anticlimactically concluded, with NONE of them having any consequences anywhere NEAR the scale we said! Some had no real consequences at all! And also everyone inexplicably got the dates wrong, so that way we don't have to rename it 41k. Even though our current events span over a century. AND our normal human and T'au characters haven't aged a day in all that time! Even the ones who were already old-as-dirt, like Yarrick! But it's all good, because plot advancement!"
-ing SPARE ME.
I get that the idea of a SUDDEN apocalypse was more relevant in the 80s, with its Cold War fears, than now, where instead the idea of severe irreparable damage to the place everyone lives and the environment they depend on, a part of the civilization that's pretty much permanently ruined cos it was in the wrong part of that place, and everything SLOWLY COLLAPSING AND GOING TO , makes more sense, and is more relatable, with the fears of climate change, economic collapse, and resurgent fascism we have now... but still...
Don't YOU want to be the author of your army's story???
Oh man, this. ALL of this.
It's a great, emotional post....BUT, do you figure that people who play WW2 games are unable to establish a narrative? Are 40K players likewise unable to "rewrite" history when they play BL versus Cadians? Are there no new areas to explore?
JWBS wrote: To be fair you could (and I would) argue that the marine base design needed updated more than some of the other factions. It was when they released Cadians that I became unhappy with the marine scale and I stopped painting them around then. It was only the release of Primaris marines that got me back into space marines. So by my reckoning, marines have been in need of an update for 10+ years.
I mean, that's just like, your opinion man.
I listed those three factions specifically because I believe their basic troops models are a major problem with them that causes people to be turned off from playing them. All three have basic troops that are:
-Hailing from about 3rd edition, with extremely option-poor, basically monopose sprues
-extremely cheap in-game, meaning players need to buy large numbers of these extremely old sculpts
-I'll be charitable and say they have....controversial elements surrounding their visual design.
With Guardsmen that's the super-aggressive heroic scaling to the point of falling in to the uncanny valley (with cadians but ESPECIALLY with catachans), the weird scale issues where they're enormous compared to space marines and even other supposedly human-scale models, and the fact that to make basic options from the kit you need to buy not one but three different kit boxes (Guardsman Kit, Command Squad Kit, and Heavy Weapons Team kit are required to have all the options a Guardsman Squad has in game).
With Guardians it's the bizarre pose, the fact that they're totally monopose with pretty much no room for variant poses beyond holding a gun underslung and taking a standing dump, and the ever-unpopular cone hat design.
With 'Gaunts it's the monopose nature, the stability (for hormagaunts who basically always fall forward) and the overall weird concept of a velociraptor with a laser gun for Termagants.
over the years I've played, I have played against more people who specifically structure their army to avoid those three basic troop types at all costs than I have people who play that army and just use those troops. All-wraith Eldar, All-tank or All-stormtrooper Guard, and all-monster or all-genestealer nids are far more common than one of those armies that just uses those basic building-block troop kits.
By contrast, space marines have always been a universal constant. At time of obsoletion there were something like NINE kits for tactical squad equivalents. Tactical Kit, BA Tacticals, DA Vets, Mk3 marines, Mk4 marines, and Space Wolf Pack even before you get in to the semi-distinct variants like GK, DW and CSM, or the second, fully supported marines-only game put out by Forgeworld. Claiming marines were not popular and were desperate for a redesign is a WILD-ass claim to me.
Primaris brought marines' scale to where they were meant to be with respect to human figures, specifically cadians who as I've already mentioned were way out of scale, but effectively made everything that other factions had that was supposed to look superhuman and imposing into weird silly dwarves. The upright necron units are also supposed to be 8-9 feet tall, as are Ork Nobz, Genestealers, heck - Chaos Marines are the most hilarious example. We now have a setting where humanity is supposedly fighting this uphill battle against terrifying foes...who are all scrawny little bitches who lose every battle to the big giant super-powerful heroes.
In fiction, in models, and in game, all the narrative tension has exited stage left with the addition of Primaris Marines. Great for Marty-Stu fanfiction, terrible for a game where you want ANYBODY to volunteer to play the NPCs who get boffed.
What are the 'echoes of awakening' that would make Deathwatch be somehow obvious?
The psyker heavy xenos species have already been done, and human psykers aren't really the purview of deathtwatch. Sure they'll shoot them if the pop up, but as a narrative focus for an army that's so heavily themed that's pretty gibberish.
@the_scotsman- not to detract from your other points, but I suspect that going by recent kits, 'modern' remakes of basic guard, nids and eldar would be more monopose, not less.
JWBS wrote: To be fair you could (and I would) argue that the marine base design needed updated more than some of the other factions. It was when they released Cadians that I became unhappy with the marine scale and I stopped painting them around then. It was only the release of Primaris marines that got me back into space marines. So by my reckoning, marines have been in need of an update for 10+ years.
I mean, that's just like, your opinion man.
I listed those three factions specifically because I believe their basic troops models are a major problem with them that causes people to be turned off from playing them. All three have basic troops that are:
-Hailing from about 3rd edition, with extremely option-poor, basically monopose sprues
-extremely cheap in-game, meaning players need to buy large numbers of these extremely old sculpts
-I'll be charitable and say they have....controversial elements surrounding their visual design.
With Guardsmen that's the super-aggressive heroic scaling to the point of falling in to the uncanny valley (with cadians but ESPECIALLY with catachans), the weird scale issues where they're enormous compared to space marines and even other supposedly human-scale models, and the fact that to make basic options from the kit you need to buy not one but three different kit boxes (Guardsman Kit, Command Squad Kit, and Heavy Weapons Team kit are required to have all the options a Guardsman Squad has in game).
With Guardians it's the bizarre pose, the fact that they're totally monopose with pretty much no room for variant poses beyond holding a gun underslung and taking a standing dump, and the ever-unpopular cone hat design.
With 'Gaunts it's the monopose nature, the stability (for hormagaunts who basically always fall forward) and the overall weird concept of a velociraptor with a laser gun for Termagants.
over the years I've played, I have played against more people who specifically structure their army to avoid those three basic troop types at all costs than I have people who play that army and just use those troops. All-wraith Eldar, All-tank or All-stormtrooper Guard, and all-monster or all-genestealer nids are far more common than one of those armies that just uses those basic building-block troop kits.
By contrast, space marines have always been a universal constant. At time of obsoletion there were something like NINE kits for tactical squad equivalents. Tactical Kit, BA Tacticals, DA Vets, Mk3 marines, Mk4 marines, and Space Wolf Pack even before you get in to the semi-distinct variants like GK, DW and CSM, or the second, fully supported marines-only game put out by Forgeworld. Claiming marines were not popular and were desperate for a redesign is a WILD-ass claim to me.
Primaris brought marines' scale to where they were meant to be with respect to human figures, specifically cadians who as I've already mentioned were way out of scale, but effectively made everything that other factions had that was supposed to look superhuman and imposing into weird silly dwarves. The upright necron units are also supposed to be 8-9 feet tall, as are Ork Nobz, Genestealers, heck - Chaos Marines are the most hilarious example. We now have a setting where humanity is supposedly fighting this uphill battle against terrifying foes...who are all scrawny little bitches who lose every battle to the big giant super-powerful heroes.
In fiction, in models, and in game, all the narrative tension has exited stage left with the addition of Primaris Marines. Great for Marty-Stu fanfiction, terrible for a game where you want ANYBODY to volunteer to play the NPCs who get boffed.
Some good points. I would never claim that marines weren't popular, just that I disliked them. Either way, they were going to be releasing more and more marine kits no matter what, we all know this to be the case. I'd much prefer them to release something for the other faction alongside (maybe alternating between Primaris and Xenos) than an uninterrupted flow of Primaris. I'm glad they're doing Primaris instead of marines though.
Voss wrote: What are the 'echoes of awakening' that would make Deathwatch be somehow obvious?
The psyker heavy xenos species have already been done, and human psykers aren't really the purview of deathtwatch. Sure they'll shoot them if the pop up, but as a narrative focus for an army that's so heavily themed that's pretty gibberish.
I mean they are the only marine subfaction without their own psychic doctrine (or, in the case of Space Marines, seven psychic doctrines). Knowing how GW writes rules, I'm guessing we'll see powers kind of like this:
1: Greenskinsbane: WC6, select an enemy ORKS unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
2: Greater Bad: WC6, select an enemy T'A'U E'M'P'I'R'E unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
3: Knife Ears to a Brainfight: WC6, select an enemy AEULDAEURURUEURUEUIRI unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
4: You Won't Be Back: WC6, select an enemy NECRON unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
5: Tyranope: WC6, select an enemy TYRANIDS unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
6: Super Applicable Very Useful Power You'll Get To Use All The Time: WC6, select an enemy SSLYTH unit visible to the caster. That unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
Voss wrote: What are the 'echoes of awakening' that would make Deathwatch be somehow obvious?
The psyker heavy xenos species have already been done, and human psykers aren't really the purview of deathtwatch. Sure they'll shoot them if the pop up, but as a narrative focus for an army that's so heavily themed that's pretty gibberish.
Echos of awakening sounds like necrons. We know Blackstone is a big deal vs the warp, so potentially crons vs admech/ deathwatch? Deathwatch and crons get the rules focus in the book, admech gets a new codex alongside like sisters?
1) Release new Marine Codex to consolidate new units so vanilla players buy it
2) Release supplements and campaign books for each of the major chapters so that red/blue/black/green/grey/other green/yellow/other black/white/other other black players buy them
3) Release new mega speeder etc. so that *everyone* buys new book!
4) ???
5) See step 1)
Lord Damocles wrote: 1) Release new Marine Codex to consolidate new units so vanilla players buy it
2) Release supplements and campaign books for each of the major chapters so that red/blue/black/green/grey/other green/yellow/other black/white/other other black players buy them
3) Release new mega speeder etc. so that *everyone* buys new book!
4) ???
5) See step 1)
They did also crowbar in 10 pages of generic Marine rules into PA 2 rather than put them in the Codex that it belongs in. After all its not like they could have used those 10 pages for anything else......
I saw this on reddit earlier, I'm really not sure what to make of it. To be so pixelated that must be zoomed in to a massive degree from a bigger image, or it's fake.
If they're not fake, what are the odds they belong in a 8.5/9th ed starter?
So far every image based primaris leak has been true. So doubt its fake.
Lol to space marine players who are going to have an obsolete codex rolling into the new year. Congrats to white scar primaris players, your dreams are coming true.
So unit or two gets added. Another supplement to buy at most
GaroRobe wrote: I'd be surprised if we got a reveal today. They're probably saving it for the open day in less than a week
Yeah. Dec. 25 was hardly a 'full reveal' to me, though, and I'm sure many others feel the same way (especially DA, GK and TS).
Three short stories are up for Ritual of the Damned, with zero rules content between them. The other books weren't like that.. Open Day reveals better be fantastic.
So what about pa4 you wanted to be revealed? Full rules?
I'm excited from that preview pic that 40k is again coming to the single biggest selling home computer ever, the C64! I can't wait to play with primaris in glorious full 320x200 resolution as shown above.
warboss wrote: I'm excited from that preview pic that 40k is again coming to the single biggest selling home computer ever, the C64! I can't wait to play with primaris in glorious full 320x200 resolution as shown above.
warboss wrote: I'm excited from that preview pic that 40k is again coming to the single biggest selling home computer ever, the C64! I can't wait to play with primaris in glorious full 320x200 resolution as shown above.
Can't wait!
Must experience the full glory of 8 bit too
soo ....where did I store the best of home computers ......
MiguelFelstone wrote:*hits the TURBO button on his 486 DX2
I was never brave enough to press that on my first computer, lol. I'm wierdly nostalgic for the c64 despite never using one. I grew up on two hours a week on the Apple II throughout the 80's (one hour at the public library on saturday and one hour in computer class a week).
1hadhq wrote:Can't wait!
Must experience the full glory of 8 bit too
soo ....where did I store the best of home computers ......
Basement, garage, or back of the closet would be the likeliest spots in my personal experience.
Manfred von Drakken wrote:Hey, gang - there's a separate thread for the new Primaris leak. Let's keep that there, and keep this one for Psychic Awakening, eh?
And here we are, at the end of 2019, and not a single rule leak about this next book. What exactly are these factions getting? Usually something would have been leaked by now, the DA super doctrine, the Ravenwing/Deathwing benefits, Grey Knight doctrine....not a peep.
bullyboy wrote: And here we are, at the end of 2019, and not a single rule leak about this next book. What exactly are these factions getting? Usually something would have been leaked by now, the DA super doctrine, the Ravenwing/Deathwing benefits, Grey Knight doctrine....not a peep.
If Blood of Baal was any indication it will be 20 pages of DA and 2 or 3 pages of GK content.
bullyboy wrote: And here we are, at the end of 2019, and not a single rule leak about this next book. What exactly are these factions getting? Usually something would have been leaked by now, the DA super doctrine, the Ravenwing/Deathwing benefits, Grey Knight doctrine....not a peep.
If Blood of Baal was any indication it will be 20 pages of DA and 2 or 3 pages of GK content.
yeah, I get that (if true), but still astonished we haven't seen a single rule leak of any kind. Not a model (which we got), or fluff, but an actual, single rule.
bullyboy wrote: And here we are, at the end of 2019, and not a single rule leak about this next book. What exactly are these factions getting? Usually something would have been leaked by now, the DA super doctrine, the Ravenwing/Deathwing benefits, Grey Knight doctrine....not a peep.
If Blood of Baal was any indication it will be 20 pages of DA and 2 or 3 pages of GK content.
lemme correct it for you.
"If blood of Bhaal was any indication it'll be 15 odd pages of reprints of phobos rules so dark angels offically have a source for them, then a page of relics, a page of new strats, a page of random names for each of the three factions"
bullyboy wrote: And here we are, at the end of 2019, and not a single rule leak about this next book. What exactly are these factions getting? Usually something would have been leaked by now, the DA super doctrine, the Ravenwing/Deathwing benefits, Grey Knight doctrine....not a peep.
If Blood of Baal was any indication it will be 20 pages of DA and 2 or 3 pages of GK content.
yeah, I get that (if true), but still astonished we haven't seen a single rule leak of any kind. Not a model (which we got), or fluff, but an actual, single rule.
The AoS box & books are happening first, so they get priority.
'Real' leaks are likely to be along what Miguel suggests. Exactly what you'd expect but in Black* instead of Red
Personally, I hope the Thousand Sons' current chapter tactic becomes their "Doctrine Bonus" (it is beyond dumb that GW is still withholding doctrine bonuses from CSM factions after also denying them the redesigned chapter tactics that also help vehicles...They're literally the exact same gak but now 1 Iron Hands predator can almost fight two Chaos Predators....) and the new traits are stuff that actually helps the whole army.
All this time people have been talking about giving marines CT's to their whole army, i've been here just like... "my chapter tactic affects 8 models in my 2,000pt MEQ army....and I run actual Rubrics as my troops..."
I think Sons might be the biggest winners from this supplement. 9 cabals and points rises both suggest good things coming their way. I would have said 'our' way a few years ago, but I grew tired of their extremely limited roster and playstyle, and mine have been gathering dust (honk) for a while now.
grouchoben wrote: I think Sons might be the biggest winners from this supplement. 9 cabals and points rises both suggest good things coming their way. I would have said 'our' way a few years ago, but I grew tired of their extremely limited roster and playstyle, and mine have been gathering dust (honk) for a while now.
So Thousand Sons lose like 99% of their Legion in the Heresy, then almost all the remaining turn into automatons yet they go from 5 to 9 cults? Hmmm, seems that GWimo doesn't understand just how few TS are actually left. That assumes absolutely 0 casualties in Ten Thooooooooooossssssannd years (which based on normal marine combat deaths would be quite high)
Kirasu wrote: So Thousand Sons lose like 99% of their Legion in the Heresy, then almost all the remaining turn into automatons yet they go from 5 to 9 cults? Hmmm, seems that GWimo doesn't understand just how few TS are actually left. That assumes absolutely 0 casualties in Ten Thooooooooooossssssannd years (which based on normal marine combat deaths would be quite high)
That's true, but automatons are not necessarily a bad thing, the one unit the bugs me the most are the Psychic Dreadnoughts, Magnus literally designed them and now suddenly he can't make them anymore?
Also Prospero was brought back, with all the armouries and all, imagine how many models that could unlock...if only we were loyalists, the price of heresy is so steep
Kirasu wrote: So Thousand Sons lose like 99% of their Legion in the Heresy, then almost all the remaining turn into automatons yet they go from 5 to 9 cults? Hmmm, seems that GWimo doesn't understand just how few TS are actually left. That assumes absolutely 0 casualties in Ten Thooooooooooossssssannd years (which based on normal marine combat deaths would be quite high)
So... you know the fluff better than those who wrote it?
Kirasu wrote: So Thousand Sons lose like 99% of their Legion in the Heresy, then almost all the remaining turn into automatons yet they go from 5 to 9 cults? Hmmm, seems that GWimo doesn't understand just how few TS are actually left. That assumes absolutely 0 casualties in Ten Thooooooooooossssssannd years (which based on normal marine combat deaths would be quite high)
that just suggests further splintering, Also chances are the 1k sons cults consist of more then just Marines, I bet a 1k son cult consists of some sorcs at the pinnacle, and then a buncha mortal cultists etc learning at their feet.
Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.
bullyboy wrote: Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.
I belive in this case the dark angels didn't trust them but gave them a shot, and eventually.. they earned the trust, also no reason not to trust Primaris you have created yourselves
bullyboy wrote: Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.
If we're talking about the Lazarus story?
They're trusting a member of the Inner Circle who has now crossed the Rubicon Primaris. Remember that we have three "types" of Primaris: 1) The Awoken--these are the ones that Cawl had in stasis. 2) The Indoctrinated--these are the newly recruited individuals. 3) The Ascended--these are Shrike, Lazarus, Khan, etc. They're Astartes that have undergone the upgrades.
Lazarus was a member of the Inner Circle before becoming a Primaris. He's undergone the upgrades and is one of the Ascended, not the Awoken or Indoctrinated.
bullyboy wrote: Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.
If we're talking about the Lazarus story?
They're trusting a member of the Inner Circle who has now crossed the Rubicon Primaris. Remember that we have three "types" of Primaris:
1) The Awoken--these are the ones that Cawl had in stasis.
2) The Indoctrinated--these are the newly recruited individuals.
3) The Ascended--these are Shrike, Lazarus, Khan, etc. They're Astartes that have undergone the upgrades.
Lazarus was a member of the Inner Circle before becoming a Primaris. He's undergone the upgrades and is one of the Ascended, not the Awoken or Indoctrinated.
Yup.
The DA's problem to begin with was not with the idea of primaris, it was with the outsiders that got sent in to "mingle in"
Lazzy was an insider to begin with. the fact he got primarised does not mean the DA are any less suspicious of Cawl's canned marines, or rowboat's recruitment drives.
bullyboy wrote: Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.
If we're talking about the Lazarus story?
They're trusting a member of the Inner Circle who has now crossed the Rubicon Primaris. Remember that we have three "types" of Primaris:
1) The Awoken--these are the ones that Cawl had in stasis.
2) The Indoctrinated--these are the newly recruited individuals.
3) The Ascended--these are Shrike, Lazarus, Khan, etc. They're Astartes that have undergone the upgrades.
Lazarus was a member of the Inner Circle before becoming a Primaris. He's undergone the upgrades and is one of the Ascended, not the Awoken or Indoctrinated.
Yup.
The DA's problem to begin with was not with the idea of primaris, it was with the outsiders that got sent in to "mingle in"
Lazzy was an insider to begin with. the fact he got primarised does not mean the DA are any less suspicious of Cawl's canned marines, or rowboat's recruitment drives.
From what I read in that White Dwarf for Dark Angels, there was a small story about an Awokened Primaris Marine that had been at the very least considered for more secret stuff. They left it on a cliffhanger, and with GW saying Lazarus is the first Primaris in the inner circle, I can assume that the guy in the story didn’t make the cut, but he was at least considered.
But the story has Azrael stating to trust the new members, not just Lazarus (who is really one of them). To stop looking over their shoulders, and trying to keep things close and restricted, but instead to drive out against their enemies with full force, making those enemies tremble with the full force of the First legion.
"As our friends and enemies encircle us, we look upon fellow Dark Angels with distrust. Broken and bleeding, we reject those who have made oaths to our Chapter, some of whom are true sons of Caliban. Even amongst this most trusted gathering, a Master of our own stands as Primaris, his deeds enough to earn him a place within this circle, yet we still treat Primaris with inherent suspicion.!"
"No longer shall we be on the defensive, allowing our enemies to manoeuvre around us. No longer shall we be idle on our hunt, oblivious to what secrets run free. We shall strike out, hunt with scent or no, and remind our enemies why we are the First. Kindle the fire that burns within you, nurture it into a searing fury, and bring down retribution upon Magnus and his sorcerous legions for the destitution they have brought upon our Chapter."
Azrael knows that the only way to be victorious is to be less fractitious and strike with the full force of the Unforgiven. It's the only way the Chapter survives.
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From what I read in that White Dwarf for Dark Angels, there was a small story about an Awokened Primaris Marine that had been at the very least considered for more secret stuff. They left it on a cliffhanger, and with GW saying Lazarus is the first Primaris in the inner circle, I can assume that the guy in the story didn’t make the cut, but he was at least considered.
Don't forget, Lazarus was already Inner Circle before crossing the Rubicon Primaris. So it's not like they brought a Primaris into the Inner Circle, they took an Inner Circle member and had him cross the Rubicon to save his life.
bullyboy wrote: Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.
The thing is, they had a moment of division, a way to start differentiating the thirty-one flavors of marines (and wider divisions in the Imperium, such as Guilliman's secular practicality vs the 'traditional' Imperial religious zeal), and just... opted not to do that with anyone who had doubts about the primaris.
It was a plot point that just... didn't go anywhere, and went nowhere absurdly quickly, to the point that there was no reason to introduce it in the first place. 8th edition already picked up a century later in the timeline. At year 100 it was 'some still have doubts,' and now at maybe year 101ish, its all fine and good. They could have just said 'and a century later, everybody is fine with primaris' when they introduced them.
bullyboy wrote: Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.
The thing is, they had a moment of division, a way to start differentiating the thirty-one flavors of marines (and wider divisions in the Imperium, such as Guilliman's secular practicality vs the 'traditional' Imperial religious zeal), and just... opted not to do that with anyone who had doubts about the primaris.
It was a plot point that just... didn't go anywhere, and went nowhere absurdly quickly, to the point that there was no reason to introduce it in the first place. 8th edition already picked up a century later in the timeline. At year 100 it was 'some still have doubts,' and now at maybe year 101ish, its all fine and good. They could have just said 'and a century later, everybody is fine with primaris' when they introduced them.
Exactly. I was all for the DA distrust in the beginning, but if you're not going to follow that with rules, just get rid of that piece of fluff and move on. Of course GW were never going to restrict new marine sales to DAs, so why pretend there is a story there that may prevent DA from incorporating them.
"Yeah, you know that interesting character trait that was one of the major defining features of this faction for seven editions? It was getting in the way of flogging new minis, so we got rid of it." - Someone at GW
Duskweaver wrote: "Yeah, you know that interesting character trait that was one of the major defining features of this faction for seven editions? It was getting in the way of flogging new minis, so we got rid of it." - Someone at GW
Turning them into moping untrustworthy idiots obessed with the Fallen was the first step on their descent.
Duskweaver wrote: "Yeah, you know that interesting character trait that was one of the major defining features of this faction for seven editions? It was getting in the way of flogging new minis, so we got rid of it." - Someone at GW
Which editions are you including? Because they started featureless like all the other marines, became Native American flavored and then were randomly retconned into generic knights/Templars with trust issues and a sudden love of the color green.
They've had the circles within circles / hunt for the Fallen / stubbornly suspicious of outsiders stuff since Codex Angels of Death in 2nd edition / 1996. And that is part of what people who actually play DA have liked about them for the past 23 years. So I don't know what the hell you two are talking about.
And yet here we are, with story progression, Luther escaping, the known whereabouts of the Lion, an attack on the Rock itself, but you're just pissed because they want to sell you models.
I'm not 'pissed' about anything, just rolling my eyes a bit at GW's apparent willingness to throw out 23 years' worth of DA characterisation to sell some new plastic crack.
"We've spent 10,000 years not trusting anyone and obsessing over our Secret Shame (TM), but hey Azrael gave a speech so now just let's forget all that." - Some Random Dark Angel
Duskweaver wrote: I'm not 'pissed' about anything, just rolling my eyes a bit at GW's apparent willingness to throw out 23 years' worth of DA characterisation to sell some new plastic crack.
"We've spent 10,000 years not trusting anyone and obsessing over our Secret Shame (TM), but hey Azrael gave a speech so now just let's forget all that." - Some Random Dark Angel
Azrael's speech didn't say, "Okay, we're letting all the newbies into the Inner Circle." He basically said, "Keeping brothers out of the Inner Circle just they're Primaris is actually a silly policy. If a Brother is worthy, let him in."
Duskweaver wrote: They've had the circles within circles / hunt for the Fallen / stubbornly suspicious of outsiders stuff since Codex Angels of Death in 2nd edition / 1996. And that is part of what people who actually play DA have liked about them for the past 23 years. So I don't know what the hell you two are talking about.
Funny I guess my Dark Angels army is not something I play with - wierd cos I thought i did - but hey you must be right. Some of use remember the original DA lore....
Duskweaver wrote: I'm not 'pissed' about anything, just rolling my eyes a bit at GW's apparent willingness to throw out 23 years' worth of DA characterisation to sell some new plastic crack.
"We've spent 10,000 years not trusting anyone and obsessing over our Secret Shame (TM), but hey Azrael gave a speech so now just let's forget all that." - Some Random Dark Angel
Why the feth would they mistrust someone just because they have couple of extra organs? I can understand why they would distrust the original Mars-produced Primaris, but there is exactly zero reason to mistrust any of the Primaris they have themselves produced during the last century or the upgraded ones.
bullyboy wrote: Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.
The thing is, they had a moment of division, a way to start differentiating the thirty-one flavors of marines (and wider divisions in the Imperium, such as Guilliman's secular practicality vs the 'traditional' Imperial religious zeal), and just... opted not to do that with anyone who had doubts about the primaris.
It was a plot point that just... didn't go anywhere, and went nowhere absurdly quickly, to the point that there was no reason to introduce it in the first place. 8th edition already picked up a century later in the timeline. At year 100 it was 'some still have doubts,' and now at maybe year 101ish, its all fine and good. They could have just said 'and a century later, everybody is fine with primaris' when they introduced them.
Exactly. I was all for the DA distrust in the beginning, but if you're not going to follow that with rules, just get rid of that piece of fluff and move on. Of course GW were never going to restrict new marine sales to DAs, so why pretend there is a story there that may prevent DA from incorporating them.
Of course you can have DA distrust primaris AND have primaris usable in DA. Not every DA knows anything all that big. Actually majority of them are just regular marines who have no idea whatsoever about fallen etc and are fighting xenos, chaos etc just as any other marine chapter.
Where does it say primaris marines must be part of inner circle to begin with to sell them to DA players? No IC primaris. Problem solved. It's not even big deal whether model is IC or not. The rule isn't that useful to begin with. Actually better to not have IC rule and be cheaper...
Duskweaver wrote: "Yeah, you know that interesting character trait that was one of the major defining features of this faction for seven editions? It was getting in the way of flogging new minis, so we got rid of it." - Someone at GW
Having a faction gimp itself because of "story" just doesn't cut it for a competitive table top game.
Either this is a story that we read and treat its canon like gospel, or it's a table top game we play with no regard for the canon. I do not believe we can have it both ways.
Duskweaver wrote: "Yeah, you know that interesting character trait that was one of the major defining features of this faction for seven editions? It was getting in the way of flogging new minis, so we got rid of it." - Someone at GW
Having a faction gimp itself because of "story" just doesn't cut it for a competitive table top game.
Either this is a story that we read and treat its canon like gospel, or it's a table top game we play with no regard for the canon. I do not believe we can have it both ways.
Duskweaver wrote: "Yeah, you know that interesting character trait that was one of the major defining features of this faction for seven editions? It was getting in the way of flogging new minis, so we got rid of it." - Someone at GW
Having a faction gimp itself because of "story" just doesn't cut it for a competitive table top game.
Either this is a story that we read and treat its canon like gospel, or it's a table top game we play with no regard for the canon. I do not believe we can have it both ways.
The DA distrusting primaris to the degree suggested ironically stems from the gamey nature of the product. In universe this is just another founding, but to players it's "omg my army has been squatted".
The DA distrusting primaris to the degree suggested ironically stems from the gamey nature of the product. In universe this is just another founding, but to players it's "omg my army has been squatted".
Duskweaver wrote: I'm not 'pissed' about anything, just rolling my eyes a bit at GW's apparent willingness to throw out 23 years' worth of DA characterisation to sell some new plastic crack.
"We've spent 10,000 years not trusting anyone and obsessing over our Secret Shame (TM), but hey Azrael gave a speech so now just let's forget all that." - Some Random Dark Angel
Look, if you WANT to dislike the new developments there will always be a way to do it. But in a realistic sense this is false binary; they aren't completely mistrusting or completely trusting, they are somewhere in-between. Anyone paying attention to quality of fluff would know that.
Duskweaver wrote: "Yeah, you know that interesting character trait that was one of the major defining features of this faction for seven editions? It was getting in the way of flogging new minis, so we got rid of it." - Someone at GW
Having a faction gimp itself because of "story" just doesn't cut it for a competitive table top game.
Either this is a story that we read and treat its canon like gospel, or it's a table top game we play with no regard for the canon. I do not believe we can have it both ways.
The DA distrusting primaris to the degree suggested ironically stems from the gamey nature of the product. In universe this is just another founding, but to players it's "omg my army has been squatted".
That is why I generally pay not mind to the stories for this game.
Duskweaver wrote: "Yeah, you know that interesting character trait that was one of the major defining features of this faction for seven editions? It was getting in the way of flogging new minis, so we got rid of it." - Someone at GW
Having a faction gimp itself because of "story" just doesn't cut it for a competitive table top game.
Either this is a story that we read and treat its canon like gospel, or it's a table top game we play with no regard for the canon. I do not believe we can have it both ways.
The Dark Eldar would like a word, please...
This implies the story reason for gimping Dark Eldar is tangible rather than the asspull it is
Duskweaver wrote: "Yeah, you know that interesting character trait that was one of the major defining features of this faction for seven editions? It was getting in the way of flogging new minis, so we got rid of it." - Someone at GW
Having a faction gimp itself because of "story" just doesn't cut it for a competitive table top game.
Either this is a story that we read and treat its canon like gospel, or it's a table top game we play with no regard for the canon. I do not believe we can have it both ways.
The Dark Eldar would like a word, please...
DE don't regularly get their entire line updated with hordes of brand new models. They aren't split in to 12 different factions, and they aren't scared of new technology.
I don't get the critics on the evolution of the fluff of the DA personally (and I am an old DA player). Yes Azrael discourse is indeed shocking but he is clearly taking this stance because Luther is free and out in the open - something his speech is clearly indirectly referencing. The DA necessity to go beyond simply defending the secret has been advanced for a few years now through various plot points. And Azrael has never really been presented as the most obsessed of the DA - what the story could gain from now is a little insight on how some of the most extreme member of the inner circle, such as Asmodai, are taking Azrael's stance on primaris.
This is why I always thought that the introduction of the primaris in the DA should have created some massive event involving Asmodai (and maybe even his death or his treason ?), but sadly this old madman seems to be rather quiet.
Duskweaver wrote: "We've spent 10,000 years not trusting anyone and obsessing over our Secret Shame (TM), but hey Azrael gave a speech so now just let's forget all that." - Some Random Dark Angel
Woah, even random Dark Angels knows the 10 000 years of Dark Angels history, and knows of the Secret Shame™ ? And I though those guys were secretive about their past lol.
That's pretty awesome. Though I wish the helmeted version was the helmet he was holding. This is the third time we can have a dark angel with the sword on the helmet, since the lieutenant and the upgrade sprue come with that same head, though the little bumps are new.
Every time a Pink Horror is slain, you add two Blue Horrors to the unit. Every time a Blue Horror is slain, you get a base of Brimstone Horrors. Don’t have the models? Don’t worry! You can choose to inflict mortal wounds instead. The cost of Horrors has been upped to compensate for this, but these spell-slinging nesting dolls wreak more arcane havoc than ever before.
I do hope Horrors are tweaked in 40K with this next PA book, and that their cost is increased to represent the splitting nature (rather than needing to purchase separate units of Blue and Brimstone horrors).
Every time a Pink Horror is slain, you add two Blue Horrors to the unit. Every time a Blue Horror is slain, you get a base of Brimstone Horrors. Don’t have the models? Don’t worry! You can choose to inflict mortal wounds instead. The cost of Horrors has been upped to compensate for this, but these spell-slinging nesting dolls wreak more arcane havoc than ever before.
I do hope Horrors are tweaked in 40K with this next PA book, and that their cost is increased to represent the splitting nature (rather than needing to purchase separate units of Blue and Brimstone horrors).
Nah, Tzeentch has been 1,000,000% cooler in AOS than 40k for ages now. Tzeentch in 40k is soooooo boooooring.
Kanluwen wrote: I wouldn't be shocked if the 'wings' are optional for the helmeted head.
Here's hoping. Otherwise I'll probably just pop a Forgeworld DA helmet on this guy and call it good.
Honestly after seeing these pics, am I the only one who thinks this basically confirms this model can be built as "Lazarus" OR a generic Company Master?
The artwork behind shows the winged helmet being worn. Whilst artwork is never a guarantee, it is interesting that the artwork shows it.
The helmet is exactly the same as the one being carried minus the wings.
It's good but also smart to make him more of a multi-part/generic captain option to be honest, the company masters of the dark angels are distinct with their robes, why release 2x different kits if one can suffice.
I was slightly shocked they didn't bother to include 1 or 2 robed torsos in the dark angel primaris upgrade sprue to be honest.
Automatically Appended Next Post: the name is different on the shoulder pad also I might add, which almost certainly means it is a dual function kit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And finally, a comment by the W40k facebook page directly states the kit is dual purpose and can build masters and chapter masters.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: The artwork behind shows the winged helmet being worn. Whilst artwork is never a guarantee, it is interesting that the artwork shows it.
The helmet is exactly the same as the one being carried minus the wings.
It's good but also smart to make him more of a multi-part/generic captain option to be honest, the company masters of the dark angels are distinct with their robes, why release 2x different kits if one can suffice.
I was slightly shocked they didn't bother to include 1 or 2 robed torsos in the dark angel primaris upgrade sprue to be honest.
Automatically Appended Next Post: the name is different on the shoulder pad also I might add, which almost certainly means it is a dual function kit.
Kromlech actually has some really good "Prime Legionaries" bodies with both Tabard and Robed options that look really good. I've been using them for my DA sergeants and I'm very happy with how they turned out.
So comparing him with the other picture, he has at least 4 different arms and 3 different heads. They should definitely do this more often.
Yep. A pretty versatile kit. I really wish they would give the new weapon options and combos to all primaris captains instead of just DA ones, though that seems unlikely.
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GaroRobe wrote: Is he wielding an old style Bolter? It doesn't look Primaris.
It's a bolt carbine. The SW primaris lieutenant has similar looking one and various phobos primaris have them as well, except with some extra doodahs.
Kinda regret trading all of my marines from the DG/Marine boxed set. I have some Dark Angels marines laying around. I would hope that DW/RW get better abilities.
jivardi wrote: Kinda regret trading all of my marines from the DG/Marine boxed set. I have some Dark Angels marines laying around. I would hope that DW/RW get better abilities.
I miss the days of a pure DW/RW army.
I don't miss lugging around 50 pounds of pewter, but i'd do it again in a heart beat for some decent Deathwing rules.
Well looks like to me that the one smart guy in GW, who had the foresight on that upcoming Canoness for Sisters to have proper weapon options for HQ model, survived somehow last year and is now somehow bringing options to Primaris models.
Sotahullu wrote: Well looks like to me that the one smart guy in GW, who had the foresight on that upcoming Canoness for Sisters to have proper weapon options for HQ model, survived somehow last year and is now somehow bringing options to Primaris models.
that or the special character has a bolt carbine. or the modeler just gave him a old fashioned looking bolt gun cause he liked the look. we'll see what happens when he see the datasheet
greyknight12 wrote: Any other GK rumors beyond “they get psychic stuff”? Hoping for a little more this weekend.
Gk tends to get the short end of the stick.. not unlike how Dark Angels do as well.
Poor DA just the only new model and full supplement - life is harsh I guess.
yeah never saw DA as getting the short end of the stick ever, yes they went 5th edition without a codex, and yes they fell behind space wolves, blood angels and vanilla marines for that edition, but dark angels have, by and large done alright. they're certainly not in nearly as a bad a place as some factions are.
BrianDavion wrote: Given that the next book is Dark Angels, grey knights and 1k sons it's going to be 100% marines.
Grey Knights aren't Space Marines, they don't share a gene-seed with any chapter.
By this logic any power armored individual is a Space Marine ...
By your logic space wolves aren't Space Marines
Space Wolves have a Primarch, as do all Space Marine chapters. Grey Knights do not.
Space Wolves in war are directed by and under the authority of a greater (Space Marine) body, Grey Knights as agents of the Inquisition answer only to the Emperor himself.
I could go on.
Not sharing geneseed with other chapters doesn't make them 'not space marines' (for one thing that was also officially true of Salamanders as well). They have geneseed and all the associated organs.
And no, Space Wolves (or any other chapter) don't answer to a greater authority.
Also, given the cover book title is 'Codex Adeptus Astartes Grey Knights...' that entire idea that GK aren't space marines is completely incorrect.
Per the preview images of said codex, they're the 666th Chapter of Space Marines
Crimson wrote: Grey Knight are Space Marines. It says so unambiguously in all versions of their background. The end.
Maybe they were Space Marines, as were the Rubric Marines, but they sure as aren't by the time they put their armor on, hell Rubric Marines aren't even biological anymore, it's all dust, they can't take off their armor.
I guess if Ruberto is your daddy then your a Space Marine?
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Voss wrote: Not sharing geneseed with other chapters doesn't make them 'not space marines' (for one thing that was also officially true of Salamanders as well). They have geneseed and all the associated organs.
And no, Space Wolves (or any other chapter) don't answer to a greater authority.
Also, given the cover book title is 'Codex Adeptus Astartes Grey Knights...' that entire idea that GK aren't space marines is completely incorrect.
Per the preview images of said codex, they're the 666th Chapter of Space Marines
I don't see a lot of commonality between the two, but you are technically correct (the best kind).
Edit: Also if Grey Knights are Space Marines why do they suck so much? Huh? Yeah that's what i thought.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I personally love how one of the GK's special rules is a rule that specifically makes Smite worse.
Ditto the Thousand Sons. But I guess since the leaders of units of Rubrics are only Aspiring Sorcerers, they're still having trouble with the most basic spell.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I personally love how one of the GK's special rules is a rule that specifically makes Smite worse.
Ditto the Thousand Sons. But I guess since the leaders of units of Rubrics are only Aspiring Sorcerers, they're still having trouble with the most basic spell.
Wouldn't that be fun? Aspiring to something for 10,000 years.
Considering that Grey Knights and Thousand Sons are the all-psychic armies and only armies that can really get away with smite-spamming, having their troops only deal 1 damage on smite seems like a fine balance decision to me. Now, limiting GK characters to just 1 seems a little obnoxious and will hopefully be reversed here to be in line with the Sons, whose characters get normal smites.
Also, it's worth noting that the Sons are still recruiting sorcerors into their ranks. I doubt any of the current Aspiring Sorcs were originally members of the legion at this point, given battlefield losses, mutation problems, and general tzeentchy back-stabbing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I personally love how one of the GK's special rules is a rule that specifically makes Smite worse.
Ditto the Thousand Sons. But I guess since the leaders of units of Rubrics are only Aspiring Sorcerers, they're still having trouble with the most basic spell.
Wouldn't that be fun? Aspiring to something for 10,000 years.
1) Tzeentch loves aspiring. Ambition is One Of His Things (TM).
2) They still induct new psykers into the Legion, usually a talented cultist.
I remember a Short where this Dreadnought Chaos Lord was trying to sell off Eldar soulstones to the highest bidder, and gets all pissed off when he realizes none of the Legionnaires that showed up were even around during the Heresey, including a Thousand Son. So they have gained new members.
MiguelFelstone wrote: Grey Knights aren't Space Marines, they don't share a gene-seed with any chapter.
They share geneseed with the Exorcist chapter. Checkmate, atheist!
what's atheism got to do with anything?
Some sort of meme, I think.
From several years back.
Correct! I got it Edit: I'm old
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Benionin wrote: Considering that Grey Knights and Thousand Sons are the all-psychic armies and only armies that can really get away with smite-spamming, having their troops only deal 1 damage on smite seems like a fine balance decision to me. Now, limiting GK characters to just 1 seems a little obnoxious and will hopefully be reversed here to be in line with the Sons, whose characters get normal smites.
I'd accept this as a way to balance them if everything about them didn't blow. Take spells for example, you'd think we'd have access to the best available but in reality we have some of the worst. Our stratagems are lackluster (at least by comparison) and our relics are a joke.
The current model for balancing Grey Knights doesn't work, and it hasn't worked for a long time.
Benionin wrote: Considering that Grey Knights and Thousand Sons are the all-psychic armies and only armies that can really get away with smite-spamming, having their troops only deal 1 damage on smite seems like a fine balance decision to me. Now, limiting GK characters to just 1 seems a little obnoxious and will hopefully be reversed here to be in line with the Sons, whose characters get normal smites.
Also, it's worth noting that the Sons are still recruiting sorcerors into their ranks. I doubt any of the current Aspiring Sorcs were originally members of the legion at this point, given battlefield losses, mutation problems, and general tzeentchy back-stabbing.
IMO, I think the better way would be the other way round, giving the "targetable" troops and units the full smite, but not the characters (except perhaps giving it "back" to the characters as a mono-faction bonus). Otherwise, you just end up with the same concept of a gaggle of characters hiding behind a cheap allied screen, instead of the full army it should reward.
I can see it now, the Tau symbol in that pic they showed starts rotting and shrivelling.
Watch it be a "say sike" moment and the new reworked Deathguard stuff come along side them in the book. Tau get ten pages, while the rest is Morty and co.
Note there\s not been reveal which marine gets supplement in the PA5. But don't worry. Still room for more marines to stuff into it. If nothing else ultramarines gets yet more rules.
That won't stop xenos players claiming they are. This PA won't count just like Phoenix Rising didn't.
Eh the name of the supplement doesn't hint who is going to get biggest share. From ritual of damnation one could think PA4 is TS supplement rather than DA supplement.
As other threads have discussed, we are getting a new Shadowsun for PA 5.
So:
A new character: Lazarus
A redesigned character: Shadowsun
A Reborn character: (Could also be Lazarus, but I doubt it. Maybe Ragnar Blackmane gets Primaris-ed)
"The various Marine Chapters" got supplements that stripped their characters out of the codex...
Not sure why people think you're going to get the "Marine Supplements". You're likely going to see:
-Updated Shadowsun rules(she has different weapons at least)
-"Create Your Own Sept" rules
-Some additional stratagems.
Kanluwen wrote: I love how the automatic assumption is "tHeRe hAs tO bE a MaRiNe fAcTiOn!!1!!" in The Greater Good.
Cause we totally don't have room for another Xenos vs Xenos book, ala Phoenix Rising right? Totally no room for Farsight vs Tau!
There does not HAVE to be a marine faction, but rumor has it that its DG VS Tau.
Total guess as far as I'm concerned, but not too far-fetched.
Farsight VS Tau though? that would make no sense. the enclaves are not in war with the empire, in fact in face of greater danger the two cooperate.
A Marine Chapter is most likely - three way fight between Chaos one and a Loyal one against the Tau possibly. That way we can have lots of new Marine rules.....
A conflict between Farsignt Enclave and the Empire is not that unlikely, especially if certain Ethereals are as stupid and provocative as they are in the lore. The enclave is a constant dagger in the side of their whole society needing the ruling body to survive. If they have a period of relative peace, they are likely to try and elminate them or at least Farsight so they can go in and save the day and take it over again. The Tau are no less liekly to splinter than any other faction. Gw broke an entire Craftworld - a civil war between the Tau would give them new options......
No tau won't be getting a supplement and they really shouldn't be. Supplement level content is fine though.
yeah cos only Marines diserve that level of support in actual Supplements and pretend campaign packs How many have they had now?
looks like it'll be Tau vs GSCs given the new picture someone posted.
That would be interesting - we know that there are cults active in the Empire - both from GSC codex and BL novels. If they can infect an Ethereal - that would be major.
Kanluwen wrote: I love how the automatic assumption is "tHeRe hAs tO bE a MaRiNe fAcTiOn!!1!!" in The Greater Good.
Cause we totally don't have room for another Xenos vs Xenos book, ala Phoenix Rising right? Totally no room for Farsight vs Tau!
There does not HAVE to be a marine faction, but rumor has it that its DG VS Tau.
Total guess as far as I'm concerned, but not too far-fetched.
Farsight VS Tau though? that would make no sense. the enclaves are not in war with the empire, in fact in face of greater danger the two cooperate.
A Marine Chapter is most likely - of a Chaos one and a Loyal one against the Tau possibly.
A conflict between Farsignt Enclave and the Empire is not that unlikely, especially if certain etherials are as stupid and provative as they are in the lore. The enclave is a constant dagger in the side of their whole society needing the ruling body to survive. If they have a period of relative peace, they are likely to try and elminate them or at least Farsight so they can go in and save the day and take it over again. The Tau are no less liekly to splinter than any other faction. Gw broke an entire Craftworld - a civil war between the Tau would give them new options......
No tau won't be getting a supplement and they really shouldn't be. Supplement level content is fine though.
yeah cos only Marines diserve that level of support in actual Supplements and pretend campaign packs How many have they had now?
Dunno but do you want a T'au Sept per month for however many months?
Kanluwen wrote: I love how the automatic assumption is "tHeRe hAs tO bE a MaRiNe fAcTiOn!!1!!" in The Greater Good.
Cause we totally don't have room for another Xenos vs Xenos book, ala Phoenix Rising right? Totally no room for Farsight vs Tau!
There does not HAVE to be a marine faction, but rumor has it that its DG VS Tau.
Total guess as far as I'm concerned, but not too far-fetched.
Farsight VS Tau though? that would make no sense. the enclaves are not in war with the empire, in fact in face of greater danger the two cooperate.
A Marine Chapter is most likely - of a Chaos one and a Loyal one against the Tau possibly.
A conflict between Farsignt Enclave and the Empire is not that unlikely, especially if certain etherials are as stupid and provative as they are in the lore. The enclave is a constant dagger in the side of their whole society needing the ruling body to survive. If they have a period of relative peace, they are likely to try and elminate them or at least Farsight so they can go in and save the day and take it over again. The Tau are no less liekly to splinter than any other faction. Gw broke an entire Craftworld - a civil war between the Tau would give them new options......
No tau won't be getting a supplement and they really shouldn't be. Supplement level content is fine though.
yeah cos only Marines diserve that level of support in actual Supplements and pretend campaign packs How many have they had now?
Dunno but do you want a T'au Sept per month for however many months?
with the Tau release slowly strung out over that many months.
Kanluwen wrote: I love how the automatic assumption is "tHeRe hAs tO bE a MaRiNe fAcTiOn!!1!!" in The Greater Good.
Cause we totally don't have room for another Xenos vs Xenos book, ala Phoenix Rising right? Totally no room for Farsight vs Tau!
There does not HAVE to be a marine faction, but rumor has it that its DG VS Tau.
Total guess as far as I'm concerned, but not too far-fetched.
Farsight VS Tau though? that would make no sense. the enclaves are not in war with the empire, in fact in face of greater danger the two cooperate.
A Marine Chapter is most likely - of a Chaos one and a Loyal one against the Tau possibly.
A conflict between Farsignt Enclave and the Empire is not that unlikely, especially if certain etherials are as stupid and provative as they are in the lore. The enclave is a constant dagger in the side of their whole society needing the ruling body to survive. If they have a period of relative peace, they are likely to try and elminate them or at least Farsight so they can go in and save the day and take it over again. The Tau are no less liekly to splinter than any other faction. Gw broke an entire Craftworld - a civil war between the Tau would give them new options......
No tau won't be getting a supplement and they really shouldn't be. Supplement level content is fine though.
yeah cos only Marines diserve that level of support in actual Supplements and pretend campaign packs How many have they had now?
Dunno but do you want a T'au Sept per month for however many months?
A single supplement would be a book of lore and updated rules for one of more Septs. There is no reason to inflict the constant waves of Marine releases we have been having, couple of models and a book then onto the next actual non Marine faction - why would that be an issue? Each Faction gets a supplement a month for a few months - yes that would mean less marines but hey I am sure the game would survive.
Kanluwen wrote: I love how the automatic assumption is "tHeRe hAs tO bE a MaRiNe fAcTiOn!!1!!" in The Greater Good.
Cause we totally don't have room for another Xenos vs Xenos book, ala Phoenix Rising right? Totally no room for Farsight vs Tau!
There does not HAVE to be a marine faction, but rumor has it that its DG VS Tau.
Total guess as far as I'm concerned, but not too far-fetched.
Farsight VS Tau though? that would make no sense. the enclaves are not in war with the empire, in fact in face of greater danger the two cooperate.
A Marine Chapter is most likely - of a Chaos one and a Loyal one against the Tau possibly.
A conflict between Farsignt Enclave and the Empire is not that unlikely, especially if certain etherials are as stupid and provative as they are in the lore. The enclave is a constant dagger in the side of their whole society needing the ruling body to survive. If they have a period of relative peace, they are likely to try and elminate them or at least Farsight so they can go in and save the day and take it over again. The Tau are no less liekly to splinter than any other faction. Gw broke an entire Craftworld - a civil war between the Tau would give them new options......
No tau won't be getting a supplement and they really shouldn't be. Supplement level content is fine though.
yeah cos only Marines diserve that level of support in actual Supplements and pretend campaign packs How many have they had now?
Dunno but do you want a T'au Sept per month for however many months?
A single supplement would be a book of lore and updated rules for one of more Septs. There is no reason to inflict the constant waves of Marine releases we have been having, couple of models and a book then onto the next actual non Marine faction - why would that be an issue? Each Faction gets a supplement a month for a few months - yes that would mean less marines but hey I am sure the game would survive.
ok not sure you understand what we're saying here, the marine supplements meant GW purposefully stretched out the model release far longer then they would have with another army. so instead of a single splash release then move onto the next, they took a single codex worth of releases and stretched it out for 3 months.
now let';s get back on subject before the mods decide to issue more bans.
Aenar wrote: At the very least the Farsight Enclaves should get a Supplement of their own. The other septs are fine as they are in the Codex.
Speaking of the new Shadowsun model: absolutely gorgeous. Let's hope for some decent rules as well.
Well unless Shadowsun is running off to Farsight land not likely in this campaign book - although were they not proposed as a breeding couple at one point?
ok not sure you understand what we're saying here, the marine supplements meant GW purposefully stretched out the model release far longer then they would have with another army. so instead of a single splash release then move onto the next, they took a single codex worth of releases and stretched it out for 3 months.
So not what i suggested and said then - the last few PA books have been Marine Supplements so this could be a Tau supplement? Although I would prefer a proper one and as others have said its unlikely as only Marines can have that.
If its Deathguard against Tau - that seems very unpsychic unless Shadowsun has suddenly become unblunt due to super new tau tech (its really not impossible)?
It would have been cool to have Tau psychic subject races at this point but the no model, no rules BS kicks in I guess.
if you look at the uncropped image in the new tau thread there are genestealer minis above shadowsun's head, so that's the enemy (well one of them at least)
Kanluwen wrote: I love how the automatic assumption is "tHeRe hAs tO bE a MaRiNe fAcTiOn!!1!!" in The Greater Good.
Cause we totally don't have room for another Xenos vs Xenos book, ala Phoenix Rising right? Totally no room for Farsight vs Tau!
There does not HAVE to be a marine faction, but rumor has it that its DG VS Tau.
Total guess as far as I'm concerned, but not too far-fetched.
Farsight VS Tau though? that would make no sense. the enclaves are not in war with the empire, in fact in face of greater danger the two cooperate.
looks like it'll be Tau vs GSCs given the new picture someone posted.
There's no way Tau can defeat GSC all by themselves without help. Aren't the Raven Guard known to operate in the area? Have they featured in a PA yet? Maybe we could get some more marine content that way.
Aenar wrote: At the very least the Farsight Enclaves should get a Supplement of their own. The other septs are fine as they are in the Codex.
Speaking of the new Shadowsun model: absolutely gorgeous. Let's hope for some decent rules as well.
Well unless Shadowsun is running off to Farsight land not likely in this campaign book - although were they not proposed as a breeding couple at one point?
ok not sure you understand what we're saying here, the marine supplements meant GW purposefully stretched out the model release far longer then they would have with another army. so instead of a single splash release then move onto the next, they took a single codex worth of releases and stretched it out for 3 months.
So not what i suggested and said then - the last few PA books have been Marine Supplements so this could be a Tau supplement? Although I would prefer a proper one and as others have said its unlikely as only Marines can have that.
If its Deathguard against Tau - that seems very unpsychic unless Shadowsun has suddenly become unblunt due to super new tau tech (its really not impossible)?
It would have been cool to have Tau psychic subject races at this point but the no model, no rules BS kicks in I guess.
The issue is your earlier definition of a supplement is correct, however in GW land a supplement is an additional expanded rules for one of the sub factions, so a supplement for T'au might be detailed rules and fluff for the vior'la sept and none of the others. To cover all the septs would take multiple supplements (by gw logic).
T'au have some experience fighting the cults. Peter F.'s Twisted Coil series dives into that, the Greater Evil especially. Then there was that planet that became infested and quarantined until the possibly infected Ethereal gave the "all clear."
Kanluwen wrote: I love how the automatic assumption is "tHeRe hAs tO bE a MaRiNe fAcTiOn!!1!!" in The Greater Good.
Cause we totally don't have room for another Xenos vs Xenos book, ala Phoenix Rising right? Totally no room for Farsight vs Tau!
There does not HAVE to be a marine faction, but rumor has it that its DG VS Tau.
Total guess as far as I'm concerned, but not too far-fetched.
Farsight VS Tau though? that would make no sense. the enclaves are not in war with the empire, in fact in face of greater danger the two cooperate.
looks like it'll be Tau vs GSCs given the new picture someone posted.
There's no way Tau can defeat GSC all by themselves without help. Aren't the Raven Guard known to operate in the area? Have they featured in a PA yet? Maybe we could get some more marine content that way.
Be better to have a Inquisiton character or similar advising
Whilst Marines don't need to appear in everything - Deathwatch would be a better choice as its their thing (as well as killing Tau for the inevitable double cross by both sides)
That won't stop xenos players claiming they are. This PA won't count just like Phoenix Rising didn't.
So do you believe that the Tau will get a full supplement like the various Marine Chapters has? Ir is it a mainly name pages......
The "Shadowsun" model looks ok I guess - although a new different name character would have been nice.
Tau will likely get some relics, some stratigiums a list of names etc. the useal supplement level support everyone has been getting.
I wish my Aeldari factions got that level of support in their book. Given that the Nids were distinctly hit and miss with their book as well I'm not too hopeful for anything particularly creative here.
GaroRobe wrote: T'au have some experience fighting the cults. Peter F.'s Twisted Coil series dives into that, the Greater Evil especially. Then there was that planet that became infested and quarantined until the possibly infected Ethereal gave the "all clear."
Having the Empire fight the Enclave would be in the GSC's interest. Could make a really interesting campaign/story.... could do
Aenar wrote: At the very least the Farsight Enclaves should get a Supplement of their own. The other septs are fine as they are in the Codex.
Speaking of the new Shadowsun model: absolutely gorgeous. Let's hope for some decent rules as well.
Well unless Shadowsun is running off to Farsight land not likely in this campaign book - although were they not proposed as a breeding couple at one point?
ok not sure you understand what we're saying here, the marine supplements meant GW purposefully stretched out the model release far longer then they would have with another army. so instead of a single splash release then move onto the next, they took a single codex worth of releases and stretched it out for 3 months.
So not what i suggested and said then - the last few PA books have been Marine Supplements so this could be a Tau supplement? Although I would prefer a proper one and as others have said its unlikely as only Marines can have that.
If its Deathguard against Tau - that seems very unpsychic unless Shadowsun has suddenly become unblunt due to super new tau tech (its really not impossible)?
It would have been cool to have Tau psychic subject races at this point but the no model, no rules BS kicks in I guess.
The issue is your earlier definition of a supplement is correct, however in GW land a supplement is an additional expanded rules for one of the sub factions, so a supplement for T'au might be detailed rules and fluff for the vior'la sept and none of the others. To cover all the septs would take multiple supplements (by gw logic).
You are making the assumption that GW can only do things the one way though.
There's no way Tau can defeat GSC all by themselves without help. Aren't the Raven Guard known to operate in the area? Have they featured in a PA yet? Maybe we could get some more marine content that way.
The last time the Raven Guard faced the Tau they lost their Chapter Master, at the very hands of Shadowsun. I doubt they’d be inclined to fight on the same side anytime soon.
GaroRobe wrote: T'au have some experience fighting the cults. Peter F.'s Twisted Coil series dives into that, the Greater Evil especially. Then there was that planet that became infested and quarantined until the possibly infected Ethereal gave the "all clear."
Having the Empire fight the Enclave would be in the GSC's interest. Could make a really interesting campaign/story.... could do
That would be quite interesting. I could see the angle for the Cult starting an Empire civil war centered around that Ethereal whos possibly infected, spreading propeganda and contacting the Faraight Enclaves. Could be a nice little polical story.
But it will likely just be a planet infested with a cult, Tau forces show up to cull, que "Oh no, there at more of them than we thought!", Fighting intensifies, someone important dies, the Tau manage to send a strike team into the Cult sanctuary, kill Papa Patty, and weaken the Cult enough to push them back.
Then roll credits to leave it at a stalemate until the next Patriarch arises from the Genestealers.
Kanluwen wrote: I love how the automatic assumption is "tHeRe hAs tO bE a MaRiNe fAcTiOn!!1!!" in The Greater Good.
Cause we totally don't have room for another Xenos vs Xenos book, ala Phoenix Rising right? Totally no room for Farsight vs Tau!
There does not HAVE to be a marine faction, but rumor has it that its DG VS Tau.
Total guess as far as I'm concerned, but not too far-fetched.
Farsight VS Tau though? that would make no sense. the enclaves are not in war with the empire, in fact in face of greater danger the two cooperate.
looks like it'll be Tau vs GSCs given the new picture someone posted.
I honestly wonder how they're gonna make that work. They can't have the Genestealer Cult arise on a Tau world because someone might convert a model, so I wonder how Tau are gonna end up fighting human rebels who have to be specifically miners for the GW sculpts to make sense.
Maybe they conquer a human world and don't know to look out for the genestealer infestation?
As a side note: Can GSC pretty please get cult traits that affect more than like 5 units in the codex maybe? Since, y'know, we acknowledged that felt crappy with marines, and it feels extra special silly with GSC where all the vehicles are open-topped so you can see it's the very same guys manning the trucks. GSC have 3 layers of units that don't get tactics: The Brood Brothers, who have to be Guard but with a super limited model selection and no traits because...well because it would be silly to have the choice of 5-point and 4-point identical models in your two troop choices. And Genestealers and Patriarchs can't have cult traits because ????? and then vehicles actually manned by cultists who are definitely a part of the cult don't get cult traits even when they absolutely make sense like Rusted Claw because ??????????????????????????
GaroRobe wrote: T'au have some experience fighting the cults. Peter F.'s Twisted Coil series dives into that, the Greater Evil especially. Then there was that planet that became infested and quarantined until the possibly infected Ethereal gave the "all clear."
Having the Empire fight the Enclave would be in the GSC's interest. Could make a really interesting campaign/story.... could do
That would be quite interesting. I could see the angle for the Cult starting an Empire civil war centered around that Ethereal whos possibly infected, spreading propeganda and contacting the Faraight Enclaves. Could be a nice little polical story.
But it will likely just be a planet infested with a cult, Tau forces show up to cull, que "Oh no, there at more of them than we thought!", Fighting intensifies, someone important dies, the Tau manage to send a strike team into the Cult sanctuary, kill Papa Patty, and weaken the Cult enough to push them back.
Then roll credits to leave it at a stalemate until the next Patriarch arises from the Genestealers.
Yeah sadly I think they are much more likely to do that so nothing really happens or matters - ah well - see what happens.
BrianDavion wrote: Tau will likely get some relics, some stratigiums a list of names etc. the useal supplement level support everyone has been getting.
Yep. Every non-marine. Marines get more because marines.
Kanluwen wrote: I love how the automatic assumption is "tHeRe hAs tO bE a MaRiNe fAcTiOn!!1!!" in The Greater Good.
Cause we totally don't have room for another Xenos vs Xenos book, ala Phoenix Rising right? Totally no room for Farsight vs Tau!
There does not HAVE to be a marine faction, but rumor has it that its DG VS Tau.
Total guess as far as I'm concerned, but not too far-fetched.
Farsight VS Tau though? that would make no sense. the enclaves are not in war with the empire, in fact in face of greater danger the two cooperate.
A Marine Chapter is most likely - three way fight between Chaos one and a Loyal one against the Tau possibly. That way we can have lots of new Marine rules.....
A conflict between Farsignt Enclave and the Empire is not that unlikely, especially if certain Ethereals are as stupid and provocative as they are in the lore. The enclave is a constant dagger in the side of their whole society needing the ruling body to survive. If they have a period of relative peace, they are likely to try and elminate them or at least Farsight so they can go in and save the day and take it over again. The Tau are no less liekly to splinter than any other faction. Gw broke an entire Craftworld - a civil war between the Tau would give them new options......
No tau won't be getting a supplement and they really shouldn't be. Supplement level content is fine though.
yeah cos only Marines diserve that level of support in actual Supplements and pretend campaign packs How many have they had now?
looks like it'll be Tau vs GSCs given the new picture someone posted.
That would be interesting - we know that there are cults active in the Empire - both from GSC codex and BL novels. If they can infect an Ethereal - that would be major.
Yep - although the point about non human GSC models is a good one - will GW show a single infect Tau hybrid or just do the easy - its a human world....
-ing SPARE ME.
well parity with each other I guess............ Dark eldar really did not get that - Tyranids seem to have done well. My actual point was people should not be expecting Marine tier support.
. Personally I'm looking forward to a plastic Ghaz, though I wouldn't say no to those bikes if real.
Totally no room for Farsight vs Tau!
How many have they had now?
