Well ok to steer things back on what we 'have' as rumors:
1. Independent Characters podcast says that they are super excited for the 'character' they will have from Ritual of the Damned, particularly for Thousand Sons.
2. A guy on bolterandchainsword says he was told there is a Dark Angels primaris sort of captain coming, who is apparently good at killing characters.
I've been creeping hard for any leaks and these two things are the only things with any substance I've found. It's quite dark out there.
bullyboy wrote: ugh, came back to read about DA goodies and all there is some boring nonsense about TS.
Yeah I feel you, in a release featuring grey knights no one should be allowed to complain more than us and yet I have to read pages of rubric nonsense, ugh. Time to bring Karol and Fezzik in here and take back our rightful place!
WhiteDog wrote: It feels like GW will release a new box, like PA 1, and not just a unique mini am I wrong ?
Straight off the bat in January?
Seems unlikely, IMO.
Probably gonna be Primaris-Ezekiel or Asmodai or something along those lines, and then the rest of the Sisters release, roughly mirroring the release window GSC had in January/February 2019.
Shadowspear came out in March? So it'd be more likely we see a big new box around then, I think.
"Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion to lead the charge in this terrible age. These legendary heroes will include reborn, reimagined and brand-new characters, but we can’t reveal any more details at the moment."
Personally I think GW are on cruise control until the SoB launch in early Feb, after that we have that rumour engine that looks suspiciously like an updated Ghaz backpack which could easily coincide with Saga of the Beast in March.
There really might end up being a boxset here with PA4 but other than a wild guess (which might still end up correct of course) I have no idea how people arrived on that conclusion
PiñaColada wrote: Personally I think GW are on cruise control until the SoB launch in early Feb, after that we have that rumour engine that looks suspiciously like an updated Ghaz backpack which could easily coincide with Saga of the Beast in March.
There really might end up being a boxset here with PA4 but other than a wild guess (which might still end up correct of course) I have no idea how people arrived on that conclusion
It's because of this : I guess I thought they would not make so much hype just for one simple character.
"Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion to lead the charge in this terrible age. These legendary heroes will include reborn, reimagined and brand-new characters, but we can’t reveal any more details at the moment."
:(
Each book will be accompanied by 1 character, that doesn't preclude further kits as well.
I'd honestly be surprised if the DA got more than a special character and rules for Primaris in bone and black. But that parcel does look like it has the DA sword icon on it, and the tree is very much like a SM tactical badge.
I guess I thought they would not make so much hype just for one simple character.
Eh, it's one picture of a Christmas present, days before Christmas. The only thing I'd take from that is that the new character will be DA since the sword on the box is their logo sans wings. As far as GW hype goes, this is pretty mild and I'd temper expectations way down.
"Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion to lead the charge in this terrible age. These legendary heroes will include reborn, reimagined and brand-new characters, but we can’t reveal any more details at the moment."
:(
Each book will be accompanied by 1 character, that doesn't preclude further kits as well.
Despite the complete lack of evidence to suggest there will remotely be more than that.
I guess I thought they would not make so much hype just for one simple character.
Well, if they reveal new stuff, it probably wont be PA-related. Lol.
I am pretty sure there will be a box set or another for 40k (and for AoS) again in the new year. And loads of other stuff they could reveal. New Blood Bowl teams? A new Warcry box. More AT stuff. More 40K stuff parallel / alongside Psychic Awakening in the early summer. ETc.., etc.., etc.
PiñaColada wrote: Personally I think GW are on cruise control until the SoB launch in early Feb, after that we have that rumour engine that looks suspiciously like an updated Ghaz backpack which could easily coincide with Saga of the Beast in March.
There really might end up being a boxset here with PA4 but other than a wild guess (which might still end up correct of course) I have no idea how people arrived on that conclusion
It's because of this : <snip>
I guess I thought they would not make so much hype just for one simple character.
They do have other product lines.
Last year Gloomspite transitioned right into the Genestealer release.
This year, Sisters are already queued up for late January pre-order (and we haven't seen retributors, zephyrim or non-monopose arcos/repentia), there are chaos/warcry models waiting (plus another warcry terrain box?), PA3 and the DA captain, and as-yet-unseen lurking Hysh/Giants releases for AoS.
Any or all of those could be used for 'festive reveals.'
Keep in mind last year's reveal was the Gloomspite 'Bad Moon' video and the Vostryoan made to order, so expectations don't need to be sky-high. While the video was great, it didn't actually show off models.
PiñaColada wrote: Personally I think GW are on cruise control until the SoB launch in early Feb, after that we have that rumour engine that looks suspiciously like an updated Ghaz backpack which could easily coincide with Saga of the Beast in March.
There really might end up being a boxset here with PA4 but other than a wild guess (which might still end up correct of course) I have no idea how people arrived on that conclusion
It's because of this : <snip>
I guess I thought they would not make so much hype just for one simple character.
They do have other product lines.
Last year Gloomspite transitioned right into the Genestealer release.
This year, Sisters are already queued up for late January pre-order (and we haven't seen retributors, zephyrim or non-monopose arcos/repentia), there are chaos/warcry models waiting (plus another warcry terrain box?), PA3 and the DA captain, and as-yet-unseen lurking Hysh/Giants releases for AoS.
Any or all of those could be used for 'festive reveals.'
Keep in mind last year's reveal was the Gloomspite 'Bad Moon' video and the Vostryoan made to order, so expectations don't need to be sky-high. While the video was great, it didn't actually show off models.
They’ve said they’re doing a full reveal of PA4 on Christmas Day.
So today’s Warhammer Community article is “we have a good article that has the information you want three days from now”. Yea we know that already. Between the year in review and this we got a hole load of junk the past couple of days. I want GW to hurry up and just break my TS heart already.
"Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion to lead the charge in this terrible age. These legendary heroes will include reborn, reimagined and brand-new characters, but we can’t reveal any more details at the moment."
:(
Each book will be accompanied by 1 character, that doesn't preclude further kits as well.
Despite the complete lack of evidence to suggest there will remotely be more than that.
Phoenix rising came with 2 characters and 2 units?
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
Why would you count it as that? Psychic Awakening hasn't had rules for SoB yet.
F&F got the new Sorcerer model as the model release. BoB got Meph. That's 2 releases with a single character, and 1 with a box set that had 2 characters and two units. The norm so far is 1 character baseline.
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
Why would you count it as that? Psychic Awakening hasn't had rules for SoB yet.
F&F got the new Sorcerer model as the model release. BoB got Meph. That's 2 releases with a single character, and 1 with a box set that had 2 characters and two units. The norm so far is 1 character baseline.
No the minimum is 1 character baseline, 3 books isn't enough for there to be a normal.
Likewise I hope there arent PA rules for sisters, I'd be offended to have to buy a codex then an expansion 5 minutes later
"Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion to lead the charge in this terrible age. These legendary heroes will include reborn, reimagined and brand-new characters, but we can’t reveal any more details at the moment."
:(
Note that it doesn't say "only" the character, so drawing a conclusion that there is just a single champion per book as the only models released is not accurate. There could certainly be a boxset with the new champion and pre-exisitng models to make up the rest. Very possible.
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
Why would you count it as that? Psychic Awakening hasn't had rules for SoB yet.
F&F got the new Sorcerer model as the model release. BoB got Meph. That's 2 releases with a single character, and 1 with a box set that had 2 characters and two units. The norm so far is 1 character baseline.
sisters where prominant in the story however, it's clear GW was enaging in connected marketing. I'm not saying it was intended as a F&F boxset but GW may well have seen it as essentially that. (they occasionally have some odd views) F&F was deliberately put into a 2 week pre-order cycle along with the sisters box. so clearly GW saw it as "part of the same release".
I agree it is too early to call a trend, but I think it is reasonable to set expectations at one character per book. Like many I still remember the days when the current release pace was unimaginable, so it doesn't seem all that bad overall.
That is distinct from the quality of said releases, however.
xeen wrote: So today’s Warhammer Community article is “we have a good article that has the information you want three days from now”. Yea we know that already. Between the year in review and this we got a hole load of junk the past couple of days. I want GW to hurry up and just break my TS heart already.
Its the holidays. Heck, as Decembers go, this has had more than usual. Usually things dry up the first week after the big box announcement, which is just a formality.
Dudeface wrote:Phoenix rising came with 2 characters and 2 units?
And yet somehow that isn't _evidence_ that yet another PA book will have more than a character, especially after multiple books with just a character and an article saying that for further books, there will be _a_ character.
Everything so far points to a model.
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
Why would you count it as that? Psychic Awakening hasn't had rules for SoB yet.
F&F got the new Sorcerer model as the model release. BoB got Meph. That's 2 releases with a single character, and 1 with a box set that had 2 characters and two units. The norm so far is 1 character baseline.
The Sisters of Battle army box actually has "Faith & Fury" printed on it in light grey font, behind the more prominent black letters "Adepta Sororitas Sisters of Battle Army Set". So there is in fact a clear link between the second Psychic Awakening release and the SoB army box. I expect this to be the only thing we see of the sisters in PA, also considering their symbol was the main symbol shown for the Faith and Fury PA.
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
Why would you count it as that? Psychic Awakening hasn't had rules for SoB yet.
F&F got the new Sorcerer model as the model release. BoB got Meph. That's 2 releases with a single character, and 1 with a box set that had 2 characters and two units. The norm so far is 1 character baseline.
The Sisters of Battle army box actually has "Faith & Fury" printed on it in light grey font, behind the more prominent black letters "Adepta Sororitas Sisters of Battle Army Set". So there is in fact a clear link between the second Psychic Awakening release and the SoB army box. I expect this to be the only thing we see of the sisters in PA, also considering their symbol was the main symbol shown for the Faith and Fury PA.
I didn't catch that but you're right it's absurdly faint but it's there. and yeah IMHO SoBs won't get anything new, although I could happily create a laundry list of things I';d like to see in a supplement
xeen wrote: So today’s Warhammer Community article is “we have a good article that has the information you want three days from now”. Yea we know that already. Between the year in review and this we got a hole load of junk the past couple of days. I want GW to hurry up and just break my TS heart already.
Its the holidays. Heck, as Decembers go, this has had more than usual. Usually things dry up the first week after the big box announcement, which is just a formality.
Dudeface wrote:Phoenix rising came with 2 characters and 2 units?
And yet somehow that isn't _evidence_ that yet another PA book will have more than a character, especially after multiple books with just a character and an article saying that for further books, there will be _a_ character.
Everything so far points to a model.
Well no, but likewise the same article doesn't say there will only be _a_ character model. So there is no evidence of anything other than a minimum you can expect.
If we use some logic, however foreign it is to GW practice, we can assume we'll mostly get light releases with these books. As they seem to be doing a lot of restructuring and these releases as being a stop gap it makes sense it would see light releases that didn't have a window on their own to link in a larger way so they released them with these.
I wouldn't say it's a sure thing but it makes sense when you break it all down. The sisters releases being the big thing kind of in the mix.
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
Why would you count it as that? Psychic Awakening hasn't had rules for SoB yet.
F&F got the new Sorcerer model as the model release. BoB got Meph. That's 2 releases with a single character, and 1 with a box set that had 2 characters and two units. The norm so far is 1 character baseline.
The Sisters of Battle army box actually has "Faith & Fury" printed on it in light grey font, behind the more prominent black letters "Adepta Sororitas Sisters of Battle Army Set". So there is in fact a clear link between the second Psychic Awakening release and the SoB army box. I expect this to be the only thing we see of the sisters in PA, also considering their symbol was the main symbol shown for the Faith and Fury PA.
I didn't catch that but you're right it's absurdly faint but it's there. and yeah IMHO SoBs won't get anything new, although I could happily create a laundry list of things I';d like to see in a supplement
Its actually quite sad how faint it is - what was the point if no ne sees it and they don't publicise it as part of the thing? Damn GW are wierd sometimes.
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
Why would you count it as that? Psychic Awakening hasn't had rules for SoB yet.
F&F got the new Sorcerer model as the model release. BoB got Meph. That's 2 releases with a single character, and 1 with a box set that had 2 characters and two units. The norm so far is 1 character baseline.
The Sisters of Battle army box actually has "Faith & Fury" printed on it in light grey font, behind the more prominent black letters "Adepta Sororitas Sisters of Battle Army Set". So there is in fact a clear link between the second Psychic Awakening release and the SoB army box. I expect this to be the only thing we see of the sisters in PA, also considering their symbol was the main symbol shown for the Faith and Fury PA.
I didn't catch that but you're right it's absurdly faint but it's there. and yeah IMHO SoBs won't get anything new, although I could happily create a laundry list of things I';d like to see in a supplement
Its actually quite sad how faint it is - what was the point if no ne sees it and they don't publicise it as part of the thing? Damn GW are wierd sometimes.
except I understood it was connected to the F&F launch, otherwise why would GW have done the whole "2 week pre-order" thing for the book?
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
Why would you count it as that? Psychic Awakening hasn't had rules for SoB yet.
F&F got the new Sorcerer model as the model release. BoB got Meph. That's 2 releases with a single character, and 1 with a box set that had 2 characters and two units. The norm so far is 1 character baseline.
sisters where prominant in the story however, it's clear GW was enaging in connected marketing. I'm not saying it was intended as a F&F boxset but GW may well have seen it as essentially that. (they occasionally have some odd views) F&F was deliberately put into a 2 week pre-order cycle along with the sisters box. so clearly GW saw it as "part of the same release".
GW occasionally has some odd logic
A couple of the narrative missions in the book had rules for Sisters too, so they were involved with PA2.
Of course if GW if had put any useful Sisters rules in that book but separate from their codex release, folks would have screeched about 'DLC content' instead.
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
Why would you count it as that? Psychic Awakening hasn't had rules for SoB yet.
F&F got the new Sorcerer model as the model release. BoB got Meph. That's 2 releases with a single character, and 1 with a box set that had 2 characters and two units. The norm so far is 1 character baseline.
The Sisters of Battle army box actually has "Faith & Fury" printed on it in light grey font, behind the more prominent black letters "Adepta Sororitas Sisters of Battle Army Set". So there is in fact a clear link between the second Psychic Awakening release and the SoB army box. I expect this to be the only thing we see of the sisters in PA, also considering their symbol was the main symbol shown for the Faith and Fury PA.
I didn't catch that but you're right it's absurdly faint but it's there. and yeah IMHO SoBs won't get anything new, although I could happily create a laundry list of things I';d like to see in a supplement
Its actually quite sad how faint it is - what was the point if no ne sees it and they don't publicise it as part of the thing? Damn GW are wierd sometimes.
Might have been something that was played up a little more if there was still stock left, but once everything sold out in hour one of the pre-order, not a lot of point in continuing to drum up interest in something you can't get rather than switching to things that you can.
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
Why would you count it as that? Psychic Awakening hasn't had rules for SoB yet.
F&F got the new Sorcerer model as the model release. BoB got Meph. That's 2 releases with a single character, and 1 with a box set that had 2 characters and two units. The norm so far is 1 character baseline.
sisters where prominant in the story however, it's clear GW was enaging in connected marketing. I'm not saying it was intended as a F&F boxset but GW may well have seen it as essentially that. (they occasionally have some odd views) F&F was deliberately put into a 2 week pre-order cycle along with the sisters box. so clearly GW saw it as "part of the same release".
GW occasionally has some odd logic
A couple of the narrative missions in the book had rules for Sisters too, so they were involved with PA2.
Of course if GW if had put any useful Sisters rules in that book but separate from their codex release, folks would have screeched about 'DLC content' instead.
When you say rules for Sisters - what exactly was there?
Might have been something that was played up a little more if there was still stock left, but once everything sold out in hour one of the pre-order, not a lot of point in continuing to drum up interest in something you can't get rather than switching to things that you can.
well yes but making the words indistinct was before it sold out - which was a different cock up.
"Each book will be accompanied by an epic champion to lead the charge in this terrible age. These legendary heroes will include reborn, reimagined and brand-new characters, but we can’t reveal any more details at the moment."
:(
Note that it doesn't say "only" the character, so drawing a conclusion that there is just a single champion per book as the only models released is not accurate. There could certainly be a boxset with the new champion and pre-exisitng models to make up the rest. Very possible.
I like the way you read things, but you're giving me hope for the eventual punch in the balls.
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
Why would you count it as that? Psychic Awakening hasn't had rules for SoB yet.
F&F got the new Sorcerer model as the model release. BoB got Meph. That's 2 releases with a single character, and 1 with a box set that had 2 characters and two units. The norm so far is 1 character baseline.
sisters where prominant in the story however, it's clear GW was enaging in connected marketing. I'm not saying it was intended as a F&F boxset but GW may well have seen it as essentially that. (they occasionally have some odd views) F&F was deliberately put into a 2 week pre-order cycle along with the sisters box. so clearly GW saw it as "part of the same release".
GW occasionally has some odd logic
A couple of the narrative missions in the book had rules for Sisters too, so they were involved with PA2.
Of course if GW if had put any useful Sisters rules in that book but separate from their codex release, folks would have screeched about 'DLC content' instead.
When you say rules for Sisters - what exactly was there?.
as he said some rules in the narrative missions. namely one of the narraitve misions has a strat that allows a nearby SOB unit to re-rolls 1s to hit and wound in melee if a unit within 3 inches was destroyed.
it's not much I agree, (really the campaign segment of F&F kinda stinks. you have a grand total of two narrative missions, despite the book covering three theatres)
It's actually some interesting lore, though there must be something missing because the numbers seem off, I got the impression the DA sent a company, and to take on a smallish legion like the thousand sons (of which there are certainly more than a thousand) they should probably have sent a few chapters of marines.
It's actually some interesting lore, though there must be something missing because the numbers seem off, I got the impression the DA sent a company, and to take on a smallish legion like the thousand sons (of which there are certainly more than a thousand) they should probably have sent a few chapters of marines.
if a brotherhood or two of the grey knights are also there that's a pretty potent force.
It's actually some interesting lore, though there must be something missing because the numbers seem off, I got the impression the DA sent a company, and to take on a smallish legion like the thousand sons (of which there are certainly more than a thousand) they should probably have sent a few chapters of marines.
if a brotherhood or two of the grey knights are also there that's a pretty potent force.
Compared to possible a few thousand members of the TS?
Only plot armor would save them against these odds.
BrianDavion wrote: one could argue we've had more boxed sets for PA books then we've had books without, if one counts the SoB box as a tie in biox for F&F
Why would you count it as that? Psychic Awakening hasn't had rules for SoB yet.
F&F got the new Sorcerer model as the model release. BoB got Meph. That's 2 releases with a single character, and 1 with a box set that had 2 characters and two units. The norm so far is 1 character baseline.
sisters where prominant in the story however, it's clear GW was enaging in connected marketing. I'm not saying it was intended as a F&F boxset but GW may well have seen it as essentially that. (they occasionally have some odd views) F&F was deliberately put into a 2 week pre-order cycle along with the sisters box. so clearly GW saw it as "part of the same release".
GW occasionally has some odd logic
A couple of the narrative missions in the book had rules for Sisters too, so they were involved with PA2.
Of course if GW if had put any useful Sisters rules in that book but separate from their codex release, folks would have screeched about 'DLC content' instead.
When you say rules for Sisters - what exactly was there?.
as he said some rules in the narrative missions. namely one of the narraitve misions has a strat that allows a nearby SOB unit to re-rolls 1s to hit and wound in melee if a unit within 3 inches was destroyed.
it's not much I agree, (really the campaign segment of F&F kinda stinks. you have a grand total of two narrative missions, despite the book covering three theatres)
Well we did not get a names page in our Codex so I am guessing thats a likely Sisters "Special".
Problem is its not a proper campaign but Supplements for certain factions with some filler - compare PA to Shield of Baal
BrianDavion wrote: well in fairness sisters being who they are a names list for sisters would be irrelevant, they recruit from across the entire IoM.
Well......So do the Black Templars and other crusading/fleet Chapters....did they get one? It just seemed an odd omission and something they could slot into a PA book and say - look guys we gave you this.
GaroRobe wrote: New Valrak vid hints that the DA we will get is a guy named Lazarus. Who was recently introduced in the lore. And hates Thousand Sons with a passion.
Wow, is he going to guess our weights after we step on a scale too?
GaroRobe wrote: New Valrak vid hints that the DA we will get is a guy named Lazarus. Who was recently introduced in the lore. And hates Thousand Sons with a passion.
Wow, is he going to guess our weights after we step on a scale too?
Its less random guessing and more so he was sent some of those GWPA stories that get published online, before they were released. The Grey Knight one and the DA one. Plus, Lazarus fits into the current theme of Primaris releases. The characters are either already established or have popped up in lore in recent years. Kind of surprising they killed off the Dark Vengenace model to replace him with this guy, but the fact that they specified he hates Thousand Sons seems to indicate we'll be getting him.
GaroRobe wrote: New Valrak vid hints that the DA we will get is a guy named Lazarus. Who was recently introduced in the lore. And hates Thousand Sons with a passion.
Wow, is he going to guess our weights after we step on a scale too?
Did you know what the short stories were and what the character would be before he leaked it? Most people thought we'd have a "reborn" DA and a new character for PA5.
GaroRobe wrote: New Valrak vid hints that the DA we will get is a guy named Lazarus. Who was recently introduced in the lore. And hates Thousand Sons with a passion.
Wow, is he going to guess our weights after we step on a scale too?
Did you know what the short stories were and what the character would be before he leaked it? Most people thought we'd have a "reborn" DA and a new character for PA5.
Yes. That the DA character was going to be a newbody from some recent fluff piece and not a classic character came up... a month ago? More?
You can dig back in this thread if you really want to, but this isn't a surprise.
I'm not particularly convinced that knowing what the 'stories' were is useful or relevant. Certainly not in advance, and not particularly after reading them. Magnus is bad and doing bad things, and GK can have one-on-one psychic duels with primarchs and be fine, and are indifferent to human life. Yay!
GaroRobe wrote: New Valrak vid hints that the DA we will get is a guy named Lazarus. Who was recently introduced in the lore. And hates Thousand Sons with a passion.
Wow, is he going to guess our weights after we step on a scale too?
Did you know what the short stories were and what the character would be before he leaked it? Most people thought we'd have a "reborn" DA and a new character for PA5.
Yes. That the DA character was going to be a newbody from some recent fluff piece and not a classic character came up... a month ago? More?
You can dig back in this thread if you really want to, but this isn't a surprise.
I'm not particularly convinced that knowing what the 'stories' were is useful or relevant. Certainly not in advance, and not particularly after reading them. Magnus is bad and doing bad things, and GK can have one-on-one psychic duels with primarchs and be fine, and are indifferent to human life. Yay!
He was brought up as a rumour or "it might be that guy mentioned in WD"? The second story is interesting because it confirms Lazarus. Supposedly.
Psychic duel with a primarch? Magnus just psychic bitch-slapped him, that wasn't a duel. And it was just Magnus from a potential future that hasn't happened yet!
NinthMusketeer wrote: Psychic duel with a primarch? Magnus just psychic bitch-slapped him, that wasn't a duel. And it was just Magnus from a potential future that hasn't happened yet!
Did you not notice the multiple paragraphs of psychic pressure and rejection through reciting articles of faith? Which stilled or quieted the warp presence, and the specific note that nothing had invaded the sanctum in such and such years? That back and forth went on for quite a while.
Call it whatever you want, but it looked like a contest of wills and warp abilities to me.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Psychic duel with a primarch? Magnus just psychic bitch-slapped him, that wasn't a duel. And it was just Magnus from a potential future that hasn't happened yet!
Did you not notice the multiple paragraphs of psychic pressure and rejection through reciting articles of faith? Which stilled or quieted the warp presence, and the specific note that nothing had invaded the sanctum in such and such years? That back and forth went on for quite a while.
Call it whatever you want, but it looked like a contest of wills and warp abilities to me.
Spoiler:
I dunno, it sure felt like a random thing messing with him, because it's not till Magnus looks at the grey knight that he blacks out and the scribe gets quite literally vaporized by the overpressure. And you know, if a grey knight is telling you to run, he's probably not got a handle on the situation. His victory, if you can call it that, was that he didn't instantly explode by grazing minds with Magnus.
Not to continue to kick grey knights while they are down, but it was pretty clear the moment Magnus noticed him he was in trouble. The voice he hears early on was probably a random sorceror or daemon given the way it's written.
It also mentions that many scribes had died in that spot, so no, that sanctum was not completely impenetrable given the scribes nasty habit of dying before he had time to learn their names.
Since there is a dearth of new info on PA RotD, Wild baseless conspiracy time, maybe lazarus is balthazar and the DA faked his death to protect him from the consequences of killing a DW kill team to steal a xeno artifact. The name would make more sense, because of that whole coming back from the dead.
Grimgold wrote: Since there is a dearth of new info on PA RotD, Wild baseless conspiracy time, maybe lazarus is balthazar and the DA faked his death to protect him from the consequences of killing a DW kill team to steal a xeno artifact. The name would make more sense, because of that whole coming back from the dead.
Or just go wild with the coming back theories.
Lazarus it's the code name for the testing versions of the codex while the new model is Lion itself here we go down the rabbit hole.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Psychic duel with a primarch? Magnus just psychic bitch-slapped him, that wasn't a duel. And it was just Magnus from a potential future that hasn't happened yet!
Did you not notice the multiple paragraphs of psychic pressure and rejection through reciting articles of faith? Which stilled or quieted the warp presence, and the specific note that nothing had invaded the sanctum in such and such years? That back and forth went on for quite a while.
Call it whatever you want, but it looked like a contest of wills and warp abilities to me.
The ending gave me the impression that if it was Magnus, then he was just toying with the Grey Knight. Letting him have little ‘perceived’ victories.
In terms of making wild predictions the day before the full reveal, here are my guesses:
DA will get fairly minimal coverage, Doctrines and the new character. If we're lucky, the Fallen will get some rules, although after much thought I have no idea what they would need to be able to field an army.
TS will get some fancy sorcery themed flavor add-ons, possibly another psychic discipline because they really needed to have 24 powers instead of 18 to choose from.
And, in an opinion that seems to go counter to what most people in this thread are guessing (calling this the DA supplement and all), I'm guessing that the Grey Knights will actually be the headliners of this book, getting updated rules, doctrines, etc.
Let's be honest here, can Grey Knights use all of the new Primaris kits? No, so the meat of the book will be dedicated to DA who can utilize all that new plastic crack.
bullyboy as a very valid point. Dark Angels will have to take up close to the same space as Blood Angels did in there book because the majority of that space is datasheet after datasheet of Primaris models added to Codex Space Marines (Models with updated rules, Vanguard Space Marines, Repulsor Executioner). The Dark Angels will get all that also.
what would be nice is if this book was a little bigger than the previous ones with full expansion to DAs, a significant boost to GK and some cool new toys for TS.
alextroy wrote: bullyboy as a very valid point. Dark Angels will have to take up close to the same space as Blood Angels did in there book because the majority of that space is datasheet after datasheet of Primaris models added to Codex Space Marines (Models with updated rules, Vanguard Space Marines, Repulsor Executioner). The Dark Angels will get all that also.
they will, but once all that is done, how much NEW stuff with dark angels get? unlike blood angels, the dark angels don't even have a famous sucessor chapter to get some screen time
alextroy wrote: bullyboy as a very valid point. Dark Angels will have to take up close to the same space as Blood Angels did in there book because the majority of that space is datasheet after datasheet of Primaris models added to Codex Space Marines (Models with updated rules, Vanguard Space Marines, Repulsor Executioner). The Dark Angels will get all that also.
they will, but once all that is done, how much NEW stuff with dark angels get? unlike blood angels, the dark angels don't even have a famous sucessor chapter to get some screen time
Did I read you right? After all that new stuff is done how much more new stuff will DA get? None, ideally. A codex supplement is already way more than most.
Benionin wrote: In terms of making wild predictions the day before the full reveal, here are my guesses:
DA will get fairly minimal coverage, Doctrines and the new character. If we're lucky, the Fallen will get some rules, although after much thought I have no idea what they would need to be able to field an army.
TS will get some fancy sorcery themed flavor add-ons, possibly another psychic discipline because they really needed to have 24 powers instead of 18 to choose from.
And, in an opinion that seems to go counter to what most people in this thread are guessing (calling this the DA supplement and all), I'm guessing that the Grey Knights will actually be the headliners of this book, getting updated rules, doctrines, etc.
DA will get what BA got - so most of the book, and they even have a new boxed set - The re-released Dark Vengeance models
Also likely the character model for the book (plus super doctrine and loads of Primaris. "Minimal" is only by comparsion to non-marine factions.
So presumably, the new Dark Angel content is what BA got and updated data sheets/new Primaris unit datasheets (not really new content, just revisions). I could only wonder what depth Grey Knights and Thousand Sons will get. The depth level of Thousands Sons could be an indicator for what the Death Guard get in whatever book they are in.
I'm not looking for anything special for my DA, just make what we have playable. Give us the strats, the litanies, upgrade our chapter tactic and make the super doctrine fluffy. make Ravenwing and Deathwing both be playable. Don't need any special releases.
alextroy wrote: bullyboy as a very valid point. Dark Angels will have to take up close to the same space as Blood Angels did in there book because the majority of that space is datasheet after datasheet of Primaris models added to Codex Space Marines (Models with updated rules, Vanguard Space Marines, Repulsor Executioner). The Dark Angels will get all that also.
they will, but once all that is done, how much NEW stuff with dark angels get? unlike blood angels, the dark angels don't even have a famous sucessor chapter to get some screen time
The Fallen -the lost but not quite damned
Ok not a successor chapter more like a splinter of the original legion.
alextroy wrote: bullyboy as a very valid point. Dark Angels will have to take up close to the same space as Blood Angels did in there book because the majority of that space is datasheet after datasheet of Primaris models added to Codex Space Marines (Models with updated rules, Vanguard Space Marines, Repulsor Executioner). The Dark Angels will get all that also.
they will, but once all that is done, how much NEW stuff with dark angels get? unlike blood angels, the dark angels don't even have a famous sucessor chapter to get some screen time
The Fallen -the lost but not quite damned
Ok not a successor chapter more like a splinter of the original legion.
seperate rules for the fallen would be neat but would seem at odds with the nature of this. if it was a DA vs the fallen book I'd totally be expecting fallen rules but...
At the head of the Dark Angels forces is Master Lazarus – former Sergeant, now Captain of the Dark Angels 5th Company! For those of you who remember The Wrath of Magnus, Lazarus was laid low by the fell sorcery of the XV Legion. Reborn as the first Primaris Space Marine of the Inner Circle, he’s back with a dark vengeance and an even deeper hatred for psykers.
Plus
For the Dark Angels, this book brings the Chapter into line with recent Space Marines updates, and also includes lots of juicy new rules content, especially for Deathwing and Ravenwing commanders.
The Grey Knights get plenty of new tricks too, including a particularly powerful new ability called Masters of the Warp, which rewards you for taking a dedicated army of Grey Knights, channelling a specific aspect of the warp to provide an army-wide bonus.
The Thousand Sons can now dedicate their Sorcerers to one of the nine Cults of the Legion – a callback to their arcane roots on fallen Prospero – providing them with a plethora of new tactical options.
We’ll have more news on the book closer to its release.
I was hoping TS would at least get rules for the nine cults but more as a Army wide rule not just sorcerers. Hopefully they can be applied to rubrics and scarab occult terminators.
In the grim darkness of the dark future, there is only...
primarines!
Just as expected, a grand total of 1 miniature for (yaaay) primaris again... but nonetheless still manages to dissapoint... Or not even that, I think it is just super boring
I think I know the shittist "story" of the book as well, TS do bad things, they are almost fulfilling their goal, when suddenly then GK and DA arrives and slaughter every one except Magnus and Ahriman, so the ritual fails, DA and GK suffer "heavy" casualties (of the handful they were sent in), TS lose thousands and thousands of rubrics, auxiliaries and sorcerers, but somehow in the end it is all again a stalemate just as it were before beginning...
So yet more money I can save... They could have released a proper DA supplement/codex/whatever and save us the trolling hype.
I could not care less about rules, but as I said, I suspect it will be a full DA supplement except for the name... so yay!
Look, sadly it's one of those things we should expect by now. It might contain fun rules (hopefully it does) but a PA release just doesn't mean all that much. I was super excited when they announced PA because I assumed it'd be a book every 3-4 months and they'd always be accompanied by a boxset containing some new stuff, like Phoenix Rising (but not hella overpriced).
What we ended up getting isn't that and until they reveal a boxset alongside a PA release there just isn't all that much to get hyped about beforehand.
Hopefully he has an alternate build like Mephiston. Don't like the helmet in hand. That helmet would look really good on his head. Otherwise, not really seeing anything terrible with him.
I usually like primaris but find the Liutenants kind of plain. This DA guy though, really looks the part. Great feel of aristocratic nobility of the first mixed with the new style.
Darn it, I Always fall for the Dark Angels (no pun intended), despite my go to marines being SW.
Warpspy wrote: In the grim darkness of the dark future, there is only...
primarines!
Just as expected, a grand total of 1 miniature for (yaaay) primaris again... but nonetheless still manages to dissapoint... Or not even that, I think it is just super boring
I think I know the shittist "story" of the book as well, TS do bad things, they are almost fulfilling their goal, when suddenly then GK and DA arrives and slaughter every one except Magnus and Ahriman, so the ritual fails, DA and GK suffer "heavy" casualties (of the handful they were sent in), TS lose thousands and thousands of rubrics, auxiliaries and sorcerers, but somehow in the end it is all again a stalemate just as it were before beginning...
So yet more money I can save... They could have released a proper DA supplement/codex/whatever and save us the trolling hype.
I could not care less about rules, but as I said, I suspect it will be a full DA supplement except for the name... so yay!
I'm not sure anyone expected anything less tbh, only 2 more marine amendment books to go and we're home free. Until then just roll with it, not worth being negative or disappointed.
Fayric wrote: I usually like primaris but find the Liutenants kind of plain. This DA guy though, really looks the part. Great feel of aristocratic nobility of the first mixed with the new style.
Complete opposite for me. They make their minis ludicrously busy these days, have done for years. The Primaris lieutenants are, for the most part, refreshingly understated and utilitarian.
no matter what the model people'll claim it's wrong. wrong faction, wrong unit, it looks dumb etc. can't please everyone and those not pleased are always gonna be the loudest
Well lets face it, while that might not be a primarised Azrael, if you make a Watcher holding a combi-plasma, he could pass as a primarised Azrael without any trouble.
He's a nice model. Detailed but not overly busy. And more fancy DA power swords/winged helms are always welcome, even if they are crap primaris ones. Although I guess it could be passed off as a MkIV helmet.
Warpspy wrote: In the grim darkness of the dark future, there is only...
primarines!
Just as expected, a grand total of 1 miniature for (yaaay) primaris again... but nonetheless still manages to dissapoint... Or not even that, I think it is just super boring
I think I know the shittist "story" of the book as well, TS do bad things, they are almost fulfilling their goal, when suddenly then GK and DA arrives and slaughter every one except Magnus and Ahriman, so the ritual fails, DA and GK suffer "heavy" casualties (of the handful they were sent in), TS lose thousands and thousands of rubrics, auxiliaries and sorcerers, but somehow in the end it is all again a stalemate just as it were before beginning...
So yet more money I can save... They could have released a proper DA supplement/codex/whatever and save us the trolling hype.
I could not care less about rules, but as I said, I suspect it will be a full DA supplement except for the name... so yay!
This. It'll feel exceptionally bad to buy a book entirely for DA, with a DA on the cover even, for a few pages of rules and a name generator
I'm ready to make a bet : I believe the book will come with a few hints about a possible primrization or Azrael, Sammael and/or Belial.
I would have loved if GW had released a primaris interrogator chaplain that would have killed Asmodai in a single combat or something like that, and not just another new captain that does not change anything in the lore of the DA.
I am just utterly baffled why they don't use the chance to redo one of the more iconic Dark Angel characters so they can stop selling metal/resin ones.
Would have also preferred something a little more dynamic. I think he is probably the worst of the new Primaris marine characters so far. he is growing on me a little, but I will definitely need a different head. It;s just a shame that BA get a spectacular Mephiston model, and this is the best they can do for DA....basically a copy of a Primaris Lt they have already made....in robes.
Eldarsif wrote: I am just utterly baffled why they don't use the chance to redo one of the more iconic Dark Angel characters so they can stop selling metal/resin ones.
A new Ezekiel would have been such a good idea ... but I guess this will give them a lot of opportunity for future DA miniatures.
No, the big crimbo reveal is 2 army books for Age of Sigmar and a throwaway mini for 40k so you lot don't chainsaw your tits off for not getting a release for 1 month.
Was anyone actually surprised by the release of a Primaris Dark Angels character for Ritual of the Damned? I mean… this has been a 100% consistent pattern ever since September…
SPOILERS: Saga of The Beast will have a Space Wolves one, too.
Also, I personally don't mind that the DA guy is less dynamic than other Primaris characters have been. DA are the really stoic, grim, resolute, reserved ones after all, and this dude does look stoic, grim, resolute and reserved.
And as others said, the Big News here is Aether War, not the 40k stuff.
Apple Peel wrote: So presumably, the new Dark Angel content is what BA got and updated data sheets/new Primaris unit datasheets (not really new content, just revisions). I could only wonder what depth Grey Knights and Thousand Sons will get. The depth level of Thousands Sons could be an indicator for what the Death Guard get in whatever book they are in.
When both armies released, Death guard got (and still have) way, waaaay more than thousand sons, both in terms of units and new models. What TS get is in no way, shape or form an indicator for what DG will get because I fully believe they will continue the trend
nataliereed1984 wrote: Was anyone actually surprised by the release of a Primaris Dark Angels character for Ritual of the Damned? I mean… this has been a 100% consistent pattern ever since September…
SPOILERS: Saga of The Beast will have a Space Wolves one, too.
Also, I personally don't mind that the DA guy is less dynamic than other Primaris characters have been. DA are the really stoic, grim, resolute, reserved ones after all, and this dude does look stoic, grim, resolute and reserved.
And as others said, the Big News here is Aether War, not the 40k stuff.
And Marines have still had fewer new models during PA than Eldar. GW need to cool it with all the Xenos releases.
nataliereed1984 wrote: Was anyone actually surprised by the release of a Primaris Dark Angels character for Ritual of the Damned? I mean… this has been a 100% consistent pattern ever since September…
SPOILERS: Saga of The Beast will have a Space Wolves one, too.
Also, I personally don't mind that the DA guy is less dynamic than other Primaris characters have been. DA are the really stoic, grim, resolute, reserved ones after all, and this dude does look stoic, grim, resolute and reserved.
And as others said, the Big News here is Aether War, not the 40k stuff.
And Marines have still had fewer new models during PA than Eldar. GW need to cool it with all the Xenos releases.
I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic, cos "Space Marines are getting too little support, Eldar are getting too much" is… quite a take.
nataliereed1984 wrote: Was anyone actually surprised by the release of a Primaris Dark Angels character for Ritual of the Damned? I mean… this has been a 100% consistent pattern ever since September…
SPOILERS: Saga of The Beast will have a Space Wolves one, too.
Also, I personally don't mind that the DA guy is less dynamic than other Primaris characters have been. DA are the really stoic, grim, resolute, reserved ones after all, and this dude does look stoic, grim, resolute and reserved.
And as others said, the Big News here is Aether War, not the 40k stuff.
And Marines have still had fewer new models during PA than Eldar. GW need to cool it with all the Xenos releases.
I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic, cos "Space Marines are getting too little support, Eldar are getting too much" is… quite a take.
Yet factually true.
Space Elves: Two special characters, two units.
Space Marines: Mephiston and a literal who? BT got nothing.
nataliereed1984 wrote: Was anyone actually surprised by the release of a Primaris Dark Angels character for Ritual of the Damned? I mean… this has been a 100% consistent pattern ever since September…
SPOILERS: Saga of The Beast will have a Space Wolves one, too.
Also, I personally don't mind that the DA guy is less dynamic than other Primaris characters have been. DA are the really stoic, grim, resolute, reserved ones after all, and this dude does look stoic, grim, resolute and reserved.
And as others said, the Big News here is Aether War, not the 40k stuff.
And Marines have still had fewer new models during PA than Eldar. GW need to cool it with all the Xenos releases.
I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic, cos "Space Marines are getting too little support, Eldar are getting too much" is… quite a take.
Yet factually true.
Space Elves: Two special characters, two units.
Space Marines: Mephiston and a literal who? BT got nothing.
"So far, in these four books, over the last couple months, alone, with no consideration to anything else, or anything before that, or the wider patterns of GW releases, Eldar have gotten more new stuff than Space Marines, therefore Space Marines are unsupported and Xenos are getting too much" is not a very good argument.
nataliereed1984 wrote: Was anyone actually surprised by the release of a Primaris Dark Angels character for Ritual of the Damned? I mean… this has been a 100% consistent pattern ever since September…
SPOILERS: Saga of The Beast will have a Space Wolves one, too.
Also, I personally don't mind that the DA guy is less dynamic than other Primaris characters have been. DA are the really stoic, grim, resolute, reserved ones after all, and this dude does look stoic, grim, resolute and reserved.
And as others said, the Big News here is Aether War, not the 40k stuff.
And Marines have still had fewer new models during PA than Eldar. GW need to cool it with all the Xenos releases.
I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic, cos "Space Marines are getting too little support, Eldar are getting too much" is… quite a take.
Yet factually true.
Space Elves: Two special characters, two units.
Space Marines: Mephiston and a literal who? BT got nothing.
"So far, in these four books, over the last couple months, alone, with no consideration to anything else, or anything before that, or the wider patterns of GW releases, Eldar have gotten more new stuff than Space Marines, therefore Space Marines are unsupported and Xenos are getting too much" is not a very good argument.
This isn't some debate, we're posting on dakka. You can rearrange the truth to suit your biases and I'll complain about the lack of new space marine models.
If you start saying stuff like "factually true", yeah… it starts going in the territory of debate, rather than just expressing preferences.
You personally want more space marine models? Sure! Cool! Like what you want! But saying it's a fact that Space Marines are less supported than Eldar and GW needs to stop releasing so much Xenos is the kind of extraordinary claim you really need to be able to properly back up.
No, the big crimbo reveal is 2 army books for Age of Sigmar and a throwaway mini for 40k so you lot don't chainsaw your tits off for not getting a release for 1 month.
Hah! That was quite funny. Yeah, I get that AoS get yet another big release, despite their minnow's share of the market. Jeez, the number of new armies that game has had since 8th dropped boggles the mind. I'm almost tempted to get into it, despite its substandard ruleset, just to play in a game where new units (and armies!) are commonplace. Over in 40k, unless you're a marine player, you're champing at the bit to get your hands on a resculpt to replace your 23-year-old resin. Would love to see AoS releases scaled back to reflect market share, to be frank, and all that talent and effort put into the better written and supported game...
nataliereed1984 wrote: If you start saying stuff like "factually true", yeah… it starts going in the territory of debate, rather than just expressing preferences.
You personally want more space marine models? Sure! Cool! Like what you want! But saying it's a fact that Space Marines are less supported than Eldar and GW needs to stop releasing so much Xenos is the kind of extraordinary claim you really need to be able to properly back up.
debate
/dɪˈbeɪt/
noun
a formal discussion on a particular matter in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward and which usually ends with a vote.
"last night's debate on the Education Bill"
verb
argue about (a subject), especially in a formal manner.
"MPs debated the issue in the Commons"
There's a growing apathy in the fanbase. I've been noticing it growing over the last couple months, and it seems to be in more places and in groups I wouldn't expect it. I suspect it's only because the game is kind of in a rut right now, and we'll be out of it soon enough, but a couple years ago a release like this would probably have been more forgiving.
People posting dictionary definitions as a cheap substitute for argument and thought is, IMO, one of the All-Time Top Five Desert Island Most Ridiculous Internet Disagreement Habits. The definitions don't even contradict my point!
I swear some of you wouldn't be happy unless 40k was entirely about Space Marines fighting Chaos Marines…
Anyway, Merry Christmas, I hope there's some SM releases you enjoy in store for you in the remaining PA releases.
Why did they give Lazarus two head options? I'm not one to complain about having options, but it's literally just him with hair or him with no hair and a cyber eye. Why not give him one regular head option and a hooded option, since a helmet was clearly not a possibility?
GaroRobe wrote: Why did they give Lazarus two head options? I'm not one to complain about having options, but it's literally just him with hair or him with no hair and a cyber eye. Why not give him one regular head option and a hooded option, since a helmet was clearly not a possibility?
I wouldn't be shocked if it's an intentional thing for people to be able to add 'generic' Company Masters, if they want to. Remember that the generic Space Wolf, Blood Angel, and Dark Angel 'lieutenants' all had names but no unique rules.
GaroRobe wrote: Why did they give Lazarus two head options? I'm not one to complain about having options, but it's literally just him with hair or him with no hair and a cyber eye. Why not give him one regular head option and a hooded option, since a helmet was clearly not a possibility?
I wouldn't be shocked if it's an intentional thing for people to be able to add 'generic' Company Masters, if they want to. Remember that the generic Space Wolf, Blood Angel, and Dark Angel 'lieutenants' all had names but no unique rules.
I suppose that's the case, though I think Lazarus is intended to be an official HQ choice, unlike those randomly named generic HQ options they released awhile back. (They did something similar for the Nighthaunt and Deathguard releases too.)
Overall, he's not a bad model. But I hope his cape will be easy to remove. The model looks a lot better when its edited out, imo
ArcaneHorror wrote: Anyone else considering using the new AoS Magister model as a sorcerer on disk?
Other way around, actually. I've been using my old WHFB sorcerer on disc as a Gaunt Summoner. I'm going to have to see the rules for the new Magister to see what Fate has planned for that model.
well, I'm kind of surprised DA didn't get an updated dude, but this is a bit better though - don't have to essentially shelf any of your old models to make way for a Primaris!
GaroRobe wrote: Why did they give Lazarus two head options? I'm not one to complain about having options, but it's literally just him with hair or him with no hair and a cyber eye. Why not give him one regular head option and a hooded option, since a helmet was clearly not a possibility?
He might have a 3rd, helmeted option. One of the photos shows him holding a bolt gun in his right hand.
GaroRobe wrote: Why did they give Lazarus two head options? I'm not one to complain about having options, but it's literally just him with hair or him with no hair and a cyber eye. Why not give him one regular head option and a hooded option, since a helmet was clearly not a possibility?
He might have a 3rd, helmeted option. One of the photos shows him holding a bolt gun in his right hand.
Where're you finding more photos other than the one of the christmas announcement?
GaroRobe wrote: Why did they give Lazarus two head options? I'm not one to complain about having options, but it's literally just him with hair or him with no hair and a cyber eye. Why not give him one regular head option and a hooded option, since a helmet was clearly not a possibility?
He might have a 3rd, helmeted option. One of the photos shows him holding a bolt gun in his right hand.
Where're you finding more photos other than the one of the christmas announcement?
GaroRobe wrote: Why did they give Lazarus two head options? I'm not one to complain about having options, but it's literally just him with hair or him with no hair and a cyber eye. Why not give him one regular head option and a hooded option, since a helmet was clearly not a possibility?
He might have a 3rd, helmeted option. One of the photos shows him holding a bolt gun in his right hand.
Where're you finding more photos other than the one of the christmas announcement?
it was apparently on the Gw instagram page. Showed a head with bionic eye (for reasons?), and an arm with bolter instead of helmet.
Another great job with a primaris marine! I really do like the proportions other than the wings on the helmet. I would have preferred those to be about 50% smaller to go with the more realistic proportions of the Mk X armor. YMMV.
Darsath wrote: There's a growing apathy in the fanbase. I've been noticing it growing over the last couple months, and it seems to be in more places and in groups I wouldn't expect it. I suspect it's only because the game is kind of in a rut right now, and we'll be out of it soon enough, but a couple years ago a release like this would probably have been more forgiving.
Its because GW is bloating their rules system again, and trying to sell us a dozen books with extra rules that should have been in the codex to begin with. And also, because we know there will be a new edition once all those patchwork "Campaign" books are out, making them obsolete.
Its like they accidentaly showed us what we are getting for our birthday present and we dont particulary like it, but we have to wait for it and are supposed to act happy and surprised once we get it.
Well atleast thats my interpretation of "the state of the hobby", feel free to adopt a more positive version.
Nice to see DA, GK, & TS getting updates in the new book. Looking forward to DG getting something new as well, especially if they’re faced off against salamanders. Or (dare I dream!?!?) GSC!
I’m really hoping a new primarch will appear at some point as a result of PA. Don’t care if they’re loyalist or chaos, I just want more of them in proper 40k (that’s not a slant on HH). I think they’re a fun addition to the game & background, and their models are always (of the 3 we have...) fun and over the top.
Marshal Loss wrote: Looks like they should have just tweaked him a little with a combi-plasma and 2x hooded midgets to make him a Primaris Azrael.
Oh well, the disappointment that is PA continues - not that it's unexpected. Hopefully the rules are solid.
I agree with this sentiment. PA has felt very disappointing so far.
On the other hand, at least they're being honest about it.
They did say this book (and the next ones) would come with a single model, so behold... Exactly as advertised.
The AoS boxed set is a nice reveal for their upcoming books. The contents don't particularly grab me, but I'm sure there are people looking forward to that stuff.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Darsath wrote: There's a growing apathy in the fanbase. I've been noticing it growing over the last couple months, and it seems to be in more places and in groups I wouldn't expect it. I suspect it's only because the game is kind of in a rut right now, and we'll be out of it soon enough, but a couple years ago a release like this would probably have been more forgiving.
The apathy definitely exists. I've also noticed it. Not convinced we'll be out of it soon though.
skullking wrote: Nice to see DA, GK, & TS getting updates in the new book. Looking forward to DG getting something new as well, especially if they’re faced off against salamanders. Or (dare I dream!?!?) GSC!
I’m really hoping a new primarch will appear at some point as a result of PA. Don’t care if they’re loyalist or chaos, I just want more of them in proper 40k (that’s not a slant on HH). I think they’re a fun addition to the game & background, and their models are always (of the 3 we have...) fun and over the top.
I think Fulgrim is a very likely possibility. There's been lots of hints about him scattered around in PA, and they fit the usual MO for how GW teases something big. I'll be very very genuinely surprised if he doesn't have a 40k-version model by this time next year.
If he comes out at the end of Psychic Awakening, they could even do some clever "full circle" wordplay by calling the final book "Phoenix Returning" or something.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Darsath wrote: There's a growing apathy in the fanbase. I've been noticing it growing over the last couple months, and it seems to be in more places and in groups I wouldn't expect it. I suspect it's only because the game is kind of in a rut right now, and we'll be out of it soon enough, but a couple years ago a release like this would probably have been more forgiving.
The apathy definitely exists. I've also noticed it. Not convinced we'll be out of it soon though.
Since you're one of the main sources of it on this forum that doesn't surprise me.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Why don't you buy the new releases?
If the answer is "because I don't like them" then congratulations, you've finally understood.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Darsath wrote: There's a growing apathy in the fanbase. I've been noticing it growing over the last couple months, and it seems to be in more places and in groups I wouldn't expect it. I suspect it's only because the game is kind of in a rut right now, and we'll be out of it soon enough, but a couple years ago a release like this would probably have been more forgiving.
The apathy definitely exists. I've also noticed it. Not convinced we'll be out of it soon though.
Since you're one of the main sources of it on this forum that doesn't surprise me.
This forum is not representative of the hobby as a whole. The apathy exists in far more places and is far more widespread than many here seem to believe.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Why don't you buy the new releases?
If the answer is "because I don't like them" then congratulations, you've finally understood.
They're not for my faction, that's why I don't buy them.
The latest releases for 40k have been for your faction so I find your complaint about this equal parts hilarious and tragic.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Why don't you buy the new releases?
If the answer is "because I don't like them" then congratulations, you've finally understood.
They're not for my faction, that's why I don't buy them.
The latest releases for 40k have been for your faction so I find your complaint about this equal parts hilarious and tragic.
Isn't that just a rephrased version of "I don't like Space Marines, so I don't buy them"?
If anything is tragic here, it's your incessant gatekeeping about who is allowed to have an opinion on things. Shouldn't you be taking a page out of your own book and stop complaining until Necrons have gotten as many releases as Orks this edition?
I think you'd struggle to find a Space Marine player who's enthusiastic about Primaris Lieutenant relase #48 this edition. We don't want them any more than you guys do. You'd be indignant as all gak if I told you that you should be enthusiastic about more of the same, yet you assume that every Space Marine player unthinkingly, unflinchingly lines up to enthusiastically buy whatever GW releases. Why?
Looking at the blurb for the next book. Thousand Sons are getting new stuff for the NINE Cults of the Legion? Weren't there five? Or is Heresy-era content "legends" that can be freely retconned without consequence now?
It's been Nine Cults for quite awhile now. Nine is the sacred number of Tzeetch, much like Seven is sacred to Nurgle. Presumably, the legion was reorganized once they settled on Planet of Sorcerors. They would've had to do so anyway, what with 90% of them being soulless automata now, and Ahriman getting banished with his buddies.
I actually really like the model, my only little gripe is that the wings look bolted on. If you look at other DA helmets with wings they look like they are part of the helmet, this looks like someone gave a techmarine a set of wings to attach to a helmet, and his only tool was a hot glue gun. I suppose they are going to spin us the yarn these were the wings from his helmet from before he was primaris, and that he insisted they be attached to his new helmet. But that is a very minor nit to pick, especially since you can change the helmet out for the boltgun.
Notice it doesn't say DA and GK get tactical doctrines, and while it says the grey knights get something else entirely, which hints that the DA will get something different as well. The focus on ravenwing and deathwing is welcome, and I can't wait to see what is in the previews. Ravenwing is already close to being good, so I don't think it will take much too push them into being useful. Deathwing on the other hand, need a lot of work. I don't think terminators will ever be general purpose, but if GW can give them a valid competitive use case, I'd be thrilled.
For instance if deathwing can use ravenwing as a springboard for shorter charges from deep strike, I'd be sold. It's fluffy and it addresses a big issue with terminators in a way that makes ravenwing better as well. Imagine a land speeder zooming past enemy screens and allowing a squad of deathwing knights to make a six inch charge.
Either/Or wrote: Dark angel master is incredibly “meh,” like couldn’t be more ”meh” if that was there goal. Not bad-perfectly nice model. Just BORING.
Note: I like marines and DA in particular, this is not a complaint about more marine models.
Yeah, he should have been grimdark slam dunking (Michael Jordan style!) an ork head into an open carnifex mouth trophy net simulateously balance spinning a power sword by its hilt on the other hand while trailing a plume of megaroll toilet paper length purity seals to his base. I think that would better capture the stoic warrior monk asthetic of the Dark Angels.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Why don't you buy the new releases?
If the answer is "because I don't like them" then congratulations, you've finally understood.
They're not for my faction, that's why I don't buy them.
The latest releases for 40k have been for your faction so I find your complaint about this equal parts hilarious and tragic.
Isn't that just a rephrased version of "I don't like Space Marines, so I don't buy them"?
If anything is tragic here, it's your incessant gatekeeping about who is allowed to have an opinion on things. Shouldn't you be taking a page out of your own book and stop complaining until Necrons have gotten as many releases as Orks this edition?
I think you'd struggle to find a Space Marine player who's enthusiastic about Primaris Lieutenant relase #48 this edition. We don't want them any more than you guys do. You'd be indignant as all gak if I told you that you should be enthusiastic about more of the same, yet you assume that every Space Marine player unthinkingly, unflinchingly lines up to enthusiastically buy whatever GW releases. Why?
No. I don't particularly dislike SM. I have neither the budget or time to commit to them though. Not that I have to justify why I don't purchase a model to you.
The key difference between Space Marine players and everyone else is that you actually HAVE releases. All the time. Loads of them. And still you complain because this particular model release, despite having a tabard, is not the correct colour and does not have the correct pauldron to suit you. My heart bleeds. Really. It must be hard. Truly the marine player is saintly in their patience.
Meanwhile, though I play a specific 'chapter' of Orks, I'm told that I should be happy for the release of a unit completely unrelated (say - Thraka) to my particular 'chapter'. The double standards at play are unbelievable. Ironically, I'd love a new Thraka model because I'd convert the hell out of it to suit my chapter, which is maybe what you should do with this, if you want new marines in tabards so bad.
For the record I've always maintained that all factions should have parity of model releases. Necrons absolutely should have as many releases as Orks and everyone else, no matter the faction.
Either/Or wrote: Dark angel master is incredibly “meh,” like couldn’t be more ”meh” if that was there goal. Not bad-perfectly nice model. Just BORING.
Note: I like marines and DA in particular, this is not a complaint about more marine models.
Yeah, he should have been grimdark slam dunking (Michael Jordan style!) an ork head into an open carnifex mouth trophy net simulateously balance spinning a power sword by its hilt on the other hand while trailing a plume of megaroll toilet paper length purity seals to his base. I think that would better capture the stoic warrior monk asthetic of the Dark Angels.
You're forgetting being surrounded swirly smoke coming from the cencers!
Either/Or wrote: Dark angel master is incredibly “meh,” like couldn’t be more ”meh” if that was there goal. Not bad-perfectly nice model. Just BORING.
Note: I like marines and DA in particular, this is not a complaint about more marine models.
Yeah, he should have been grimdark slam dunking (Michael Jordan style!) an ork head into an open carnifex mouth trophy net simulateously balance spinning a power sword by its hilt on the other hand while trailing a plume of megaroll toilet paper length purity seals to his base. I think that would better capture the stoic warrior monk asthetic of the Dark Angels.
You're forgetting being surrounded swirly smoke coming from the cencers!
The original DA characters (Azrael, Ezekiel, Asmodai) all fit in the DA style whilst being different from each other and the other marine character models at the time. Doesn’t need to be over the top to be interesting or different. This model would be fine in the context of new codex+couple new releases, but as the token release for the foreseeable future it’s blah. Compare this to mephiston (other than his stupid collar).
Its a shame they went all out on Phoenix Rising with the massive Blood of the Phoenix boxset(which was beyond most players budgets), but then just released a single model on each of the following episodes.
The new Marine and chaos Sorcerer models are really good, but I really don't see why they didn't include a plastic Lictor or Deathleaper for Blood Of Baal.
Still, I'm hopeful for two releases; a new Commander Shadowsun and Ghazghkull Thraka.
I feel like with these two, very clearly (IMO) Ork rumour engines that Orks are dang near guaranteed to get something with or around Saga of the Beast. Honestly, considering SoB are getting their full release soon, I'm not sure if there's much hope for PA5 to bring anything substantial.
Do we even know who the Tau are fighting there? Is it DG or maybe Admech and/or guard? Because admech has some things in the pipeline that we know of so if they're in PA5 then Tau is definitely getting diddly squat
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Why don't you buy the new releases?
If the answer is "because I don't like them" then congratulations, you've finally understood.
They're not for my faction, that's why I don't buy them.
The latest releases for 40k have been for your faction so I find your complaint about this equal parts hilarious and tragic.
Isn't that just a rephrased version of "I don't like Space Marines, so I don't buy them"?
If anything is tragic here, it's your incessant gatekeeping about who is allowed to have an opinion on things. Shouldn't you be taking a page out of your own book and stop complaining until Necrons have gotten as many releases as Orks this edition?
I think you'd struggle to find a Space Marine player who's enthusiastic about Primaris Lieutenant relase #48 this edition. We don't want them any more than you guys do. You'd be indignant as all gak if I told you that you should be enthusiastic about more of the same, yet you assume that every Space Marine player unthinkingly, unflinchingly lines up to enthusiastically buy whatever GW releases. Why?
No. I don't particularly dislike SM. I have neither the budget or time to commit to them though. Not that I have to justify why I don't purchase a model to you.
The key difference between Space Marine players and everyone else is that you actually HAVE releases. All the time. Loads of them. And still you complain because this particular model release, despite having a tabard, is not the correct colour and does not have the correct pauldron to suit you. My heart bleeds. Really. It must be hard. Truly the marine player is saintly in their patience.
Meanwhile, though I play a specific 'chapter' of Orks, I'm told that I should be happy for the release of a unit completely unrelated (say - Thraka) to my particular 'chapter'. The double standards at play are unbelievable. Ironically, I'd love a new Thraka model because I'd convert the hell out of it to suit my chapter, which is maybe what you should do with this, if you want new marines in tabards so bad.
Am I telling you that though? No? I'm fairly certain I've consistently been on record saying I want other factions getting more cool things too.
If it's OK for you to want your particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things (which I would 100% support and get behind), why then is it not OK for me to want my particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things? What happened to double standards being bad?
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Why don't you buy the new releases?
If the answer is "because I don't like them" then congratulations, you've finally understood.
They're not for my faction, that's why I don't buy them.
The latest releases for 40k have been for your faction so I find your complaint about this equal parts hilarious and tragic.
Isn't that just a rephrased version of "I don't like Space Marines, so I don't buy them"?
If anything is tragic here, it's your incessant gatekeeping about who is allowed to have an opinion on things. Shouldn't you be taking a page out of your own book and stop complaining until Necrons have gotten as many releases as Orks this edition?
I think you'd struggle to find a Space Marine player who's enthusiastic about Primaris Lieutenant relase #48 this edition. We don't want them any more than you guys do. You'd be indignant as all gak if I told you that you should be enthusiastic about more of the same, yet you assume that every Space Marine player unthinkingly, unflinchingly lines up to enthusiastically buy whatever GW releases. Why?
No. I don't particularly dislike SM. I have neither the budget or time to commit to them though. Not that I have to justify why I don't purchase a model to you.
The key difference between Space Marine players and everyone else is that you actually HAVE releases. All the time. Loads of them. And still you complain because this particular model release, despite having a tabard, is not the correct colour and does not have the correct pauldron to suit you. My heart bleeds. Really. It must be hard. Truly the marine player is saintly in their patience.
Meanwhile, though I play a specific 'chapter' of Orks, I'm told that I should be happy for the release of a unit completely unrelated (say - Thraka) to my particular 'chapter'. The double standards at play are unbelievable. Ironically, I'd love a new Thraka model because I'd convert the hell out of it to suit my chapter, which is maybe what you should do with this, if you want new marines in tabards so bad.
Am I telling you that though? No? I'm fairly certain I've consistently been on record saying I want other factions getting more cool things too.
If it's OK for you to want your particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things (which I would 100% support and get behind), why then is it not OK for me to want my particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things? What happened to double standards being bad?
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Why don't you buy the new releases?
If the answer is "because I don't like them" then congratulations, you've finally understood.
They're not for my faction, that's why I don't buy them.
The latest releases for 40k have been for your faction so I find your complaint about this equal parts hilarious and tragic.
Isn't that just a rephrased version of "I don't like Space Marines, so I don't buy them"?
If anything is tragic here, it's your incessant gatekeeping about who is allowed to have an opinion on things. Shouldn't you be taking a page out of your own book and stop complaining until Necrons have gotten as many releases as Orks this edition?
I think you'd struggle to find a Space Marine player who's enthusiastic about Primaris Lieutenant relase #48 this edition. We don't want them any more than you guys do. You'd be indignant as all gak if I told you that you should be enthusiastic about more of the same, yet you assume that every Space Marine player unthinkingly, unflinchingly lines up to enthusiastically buy whatever GW releases. Why?
No. I don't particularly dislike SM. I have neither the budget or time to commit to them though. Not that I have to justify why I don't purchase a model to you.
The key difference between Space Marine players and everyone else is that you actually HAVE releases. All the time. Loads of them. And still you complain because this particular model release, despite having a tabard, is not the correct colour and does not have the correct pauldron to suit you. My heart bleeds. Really. It must be hard. Truly the marine player is saintly in their patience.
Meanwhile, though I play a specific 'chapter' of Orks, I'm told that I should be happy for the release of a unit completely unrelated (say - Thraka) to my particular 'chapter'. The double standards at play are unbelievable. Ironically, I'd love a new Thraka model because I'd convert the hell out of it to suit my chapter, which is maybe what you should do with this, if you want new marines in tabards so bad.
Am I telling you that though? No? I'm fairly certain I've consistently been on record saying I want other factions getting more cool things too.
If it's OK for you to want your particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things (which I would 100% support and get behind), why then is it not OK for me to want my particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things? What happened to double standards being bad?
Orks aren't a Sub-faction, so the comparison you made at the end is moot.
SamusDrake wrote: To not have a new Tau model for an episode called "The Greater Good" would be quite disappointing.
Apparently 1d4Chan mentions the Death Guard as the likely opposition faction.
I'm really curious as to what they do with Tau. They're hardly weak as they stand, but they're very mono-build, and really lack viable options. I'm curious how they implement new rules without breaking the codex.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Why don't you buy the new releases?
If the answer is "because I don't like them" then congratulations, you've finally understood.
They're not for my faction, that's why I don't buy them.
The latest releases for 40k have been for your faction so I find your complaint about this equal parts hilarious and tragic.
Isn't that just a rephrased version of "I don't like Space Marines, so I don't buy them"?
If anything is tragic here, it's your incessant gatekeeping about who is allowed to have an opinion on things. Shouldn't you be taking a page out of your own book and stop complaining until Necrons have gotten as many releases as Orks this edition?
I think you'd struggle to find a Space Marine player who's enthusiastic about Primaris Lieutenant relase #48 this edition. We don't want them any more than you guys do. You'd be indignant as all gak if I told you that you should be enthusiastic about more of the same, yet you assume that every Space Marine player unthinkingly, unflinchingly lines up to enthusiastically buy whatever GW releases. Why?
No. I don't particularly dislike SM. I have neither the budget or time to commit to them though. Not that I have to justify why I don't purchase a model to you.
The key difference between Space Marine players and everyone else is that you actually HAVE releases. All the time. Loads of them. And still you complain because this particular model release, despite having a tabard, is not the correct colour and does not have the correct pauldron to suit you. My heart bleeds. Really. It must be hard. Truly the marine player is saintly in their patience.
Meanwhile, though I play a specific 'chapter' of Orks, I'm told that I should be happy for the release of a unit completely unrelated (say - Thraka) to my particular 'chapter'. The double standards at play are unbelievable. Ironically, I'd love a new Thraka model because I'd convert the hell out of it to suit my chapter, which is maybe what you should do with this, if you want new marines in tabards so bad.
Am I telling you that though? No? I'm fairly certain I've consistently been on record saying I want other factions getting more cool things too.
If it's OK for you to want your particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things (which I would 100% support and get behind), why then is it not OK for me to want my particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things? What happened to double standards being bad?
envy is a terriable thing.
What am I envious of again? His jealousy at DA getting an extra character release while his chapter didn't get one? Righto. Terriable logic.
Walrus - The complaining of ANY marine player (excluding GK because they can't use Primaris) is not justified given their glut of releases. I'm not sorry BT didn't get a new character model, they've had enough other releases so I have no sympathy.
SamusDrake wrote: To not have a new Tau model for an episode called "The Greater Good" would be quite disappointing.
Apparently 1d4Chan mentions the Death Guard as the likely opposition faction.
I'm really curious as to what they do with Tau. They're hardly weak as they stand, but they're very mono-build, and really lack viable options. I'm curious how they implement new rules without breaking the codex.
Well fluff wise it would make sense as Tau were defending a wormhole (created by Tau's attempt at warp travel) from massive Death Guard armada.
And I also kinda expect there being some new stuff for Tau at that title.
SamusDrake wrote: To not have a new Tau model for an episode called "The Greater Good" would be quite disappointing.
Apparently 1d4Chan mentions the Death Guard as the likely opposition faction.
I'm really curious as to what they do with Tau. They're hardly weak as they stand, but they're very mono-build, and really lack viable options. I'm curious how they implement new rules without breaking the codex.
Well fluff wise it would make sense as Tau were defending a wormhole (created by Tau's attempt at warp travel) from massive Death Guard armada.
And I also kinda expect there being some new stuff for Tau at that title.
Yeah, if it is DG as the secondary faction (if), I'd definitely bet on T'au getting the new model. DG got their entire range refreshed and (massively) expanded comparatively recently and aren't wanting for new toys right now.
That said, I love the current models for Shadowsun and Farsight. I think Darkstrider could benefit a lot more from an update.
Warpspy wrote: I think we'll see what GW said, one character for each book...
Sooo... it will be a Deathwatch primaris and a Space Wolves primaris.
Just to be more precise, it's at least one character per book. Sometimes it's more.
Pheonix Rising got both Jain Zar and the massive letdown that was Drazhar.
Also, it's not necessarily a named character, as Faith & Fury had only the new chaos sorcerer and, arguably, the monopose canoness.
No.
Again, as they said and we've just had demonstrated, the next threePA books will come with _a character_model. Phoenix Rising happened before that announcement. It isn't an example of what can happen with the next three books.
They've told us precisely what to expect, and did exactly what they said they would.
There is no reason to set people up for disappointment by claiming 'one' equals 'one to twenty'
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Why don't you buy the new releases?
If the answer is "because I don't like them" then congratulations, you've finally understood.
They're not for my faction, that's why I don't buy them.
The latest releases for 40k have been for your faction so I find your complaint about this equal parts hilarious and tragic.
Isn't that just a rephrased version of "I don't like Space Marines, so I don't buy them"?
If anything is tragic here, it's your incessant gatekeeping about who is allowed to have an opinion on things. Shouldn't you be taking a page out of your own book and stop complaining until Necrons have gotten as many releases as Orks this edition?
I think you'd struggle to find a Space Marine player who's enthusiastic about Primaris Lieutenant relase #48 this edition. We don't want them any more than you guys do. You'd be indignant as all gak if I told you that you should be enthusiastic about more of the same, yet you assume that every Space Marine player unthinkingly, unflinchingly lines up to enthusiastically buy whatever GW releases. Why?
No. I don't particularly dislike SM. I have neither the budget or time to commit to them though. Not that I have to justify why I don't purchase a model to you.
The key difference between Space Marine players and everyone else is that you actually HAVE releases. All the time. Loads of them. And still you complain because this particular model release, despite having a tabard, is not the correct colour and does not have the correct pauldron to suit you. My heart bleeds. Really. It must be hard. Truly the marine player is saintly in their patience.
Meanwhile, though I play a specific 'chapter' of Orks, I'm told that I should be happy for the release of a unit completely unrelated (say - Thraka) to my particular 'chapter'. The double standards at play are unbelievable. Ironically, I'd love a new Thraka model because I'd convert the hell out of it to suit my chapter, which is maybe what you should do with this, if you want new marines in tabards so bad.
Am I telling you that though? No? I'm fairly certain I've consistently been on record saying I want other factions getting more cool things too.
If it's OK for you to want your particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things (which I would 100% support and get behind), why then is it not OK for me to want my particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things? What happened to double standards being bad?
Orks are a full Faction
Dark Angels are a sub faction of Marines which are a sub faction of the Imperium. So Sub-Sub-Faction - nearly a full submarine.....
You need to measure and compare the support of a Named Ork Warband for a specific Kulture to be be playing fair.
The new DA model is not bad, but this does seem to be the DA Supplement book we all assumed it would be, next Stop Wolfy Wolf Wolf Suppplement and Deathwatch Supplement.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Why don't you buy the new releases?
If the answer is "because I don't like them" then congratulations, you've finally understood.
They're not for my faction, that's why I don't buy them.
The latest releases for 40k have been for your faction so I find your complaint about this equal parts hilarious and tragic.
Isn't that just a rephrased version of "I don't like Space Marines, so I don't buy them"?
If anything is tragic here, it's your incessant gatekeeping about who is allowed to have an opinion on things. Shouldn't you be taking a page out of your own book and stop complaining until Necrons have gotten as many releases as Orks this edition?
I think you'd struggle to find a Space Marine player who's enthusiastic about Primaris Lieutenant relase #48 this edition. We don't want them any more than you guys do. You'd be indignant as all gak if I told you that you should be enthusiastic about more of the same, yet you assume that every Space Marine player unthinkingly, unflinchingly lines up to enthusiastically buy whatever GW releases. Why?
No. I don't particularly dislike SM. I have neither the budget or time to commit to them though. Not that I have to justify why I don't purchase a model to you.
The key difference between Space Marine players and everyone else is that you actually HAVE releases. All the time. Loads of them. And still you complain because this particular model release, despite having a tabard, is not the correct colour and does not have the correct pauldron to suit you. My heart bleeds. Really. It must be hard. Truly the marine player is saintly in their patience.
Meanwhile, though I play a specific 'chapter' of Orks, I'm told that I should be happy for the release of a unit completely unrelated (say - Thraka) to my particular 'chapter'. The double standards at play are unbelievable. Ironically, I'd love a new Thraka model because I'd convert the hell out of it to suit my chapter, which is maybe what you should do with this, if you want new marines in tabards so bad.
Am I telling you that though? No? I'm fairly certain I've consistently been on record saying I want other factions getting more cool things too.
If it's OK for you to want your particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things (which I would 100% support and get behind), why then is it not OK for me to want my particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things? What happened to double standards being bad?
Orks are a full Faction
Dark Angels are a sub faction of Marines which are a sub faction of the Imperium. So Sub-Sub-Faction - nearly a full submarine.....
You need to measure and compare the support of a Named Ork Warband for a specific Kulture to be be playing fair.
The new DA model is not bad, but this does seem to be the DA Supplement book we all assumed it would be, next Stop Wolfy Wolf Wolf Suppplement and Deathwatch Supplement.
Calling it a campaign book is pretty sad.
In terms of the game, Dark angels are just as much an army as Orks are, even if fluff-wise they are not.
Clan Kultures are on the same levels as successor chapter tactics.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Why don't you buy the new releases?
If the answer is "because I don't like them" then congratulations, you've finally understood.
They're not for my faction, that's why I don't buy them.
The latest releases for 40k have been for your faction so I find your complaint about this equal parts hilarious and tragic.
Isn't that just a rephrased version of "I don't like Space Marines, so I don't buy them"?
If anything is tragic here, it's your incessant gatekeeping about who is allowed to have an opinion on things. Shouldn't you be taking a page out of your own book and stop complaining until Necrons have gotten as many releases as Orks this edition?
I think you'd struggle to find a Space Marine player who's enthusiastic about Primaris Lieutenant relase #48 this edition. We don't want them any more than you guys do. You'd be indignant as all gak if I told you that you should be enthusiastic about more of the same, yet you assume that every Space Marine player unthinkingly, unflinchingly lines up to enthusiastically buy whatever GW releases. Why?
No. I don't particularly dislike SM. I have neither the budget or time to commit to them though. Not that I have to justify why I don't purchase a model to you.
The key difference between Space Marine players and everyone else is that you actually HAVE releases. All the time. Loads of them. And still you complain because this particular model release, despite having a tabard, is not the correct colour and does not have the correct pauldron to suit you. My heart bleeds. Really. It must be hard. Truly the marine player is saintly in their patience.
Meanwhile, though I play a specific 'chapter' of Orks, I'm told that I should be happy for the release of a unit completely unrelated (say - Thraka) to my particular 'chapter'. The double standards at play are unbelievable. Ironically, I'd love a new Thraka model because I'd convert the hell out of it to suit my chapter, which is maybe what you should do with this, if you want new marines in tabards so bad.
Am I telling you that though? No? I'm fairly certain I've consistently been on record saying I want other factions getting more cool things too.
If it's OK for you to want your particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things (which I would 100% support and get behind), why then is it not OK for me to want my particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things? What happened to double standards being bad?
Orks are a full Faction
Dark Angels are a sub faction of Marines which are a sub faction of the Imperium. So Sub-Sub-Faction - nearly a full submarine.....
You need to measure and compare the support of a Named Ork Warband for a specific Kulture to be be playing fair.
The new DA model is not bad, but this does seem to be the DA Supplement book we all assumed it would be, next Stop Wolfy Wolf Wolf Suppplement and Deathwatch Supplement.
Calling it a campaign book is pretty sad.
In terms of the game, Dark angels are just as much an army as Orks are, even if fluff-wise they are not.
Clan Kultures are on the same levels as successor chapter tactics.
They are a sub sub faction of the Imperium Faction - I have shown that above - what part of my statement was incorrect.
I meant what I said. I'm fully behind Speed Freeks or Snakebitez or what have you getting their own cool things. When I said that I was cool with people wanted cool stuff for their sub-factions, that is what I meant: being cool with people wanting cool things for their sub-factions. At no point did I assume "Orks" were a subfaction. A Goffs player gets rather minimal benefit from the various Buggies, a Khorne player doesn't benefit much from the new Slaanesh releases, someone playing Saim-Hann doesn't get a lot from new Banshees and Jain Zar, and a Black Templars player doesn't get much out of seventyfive-billion different shooting units.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Well, at least SOMEONE is getting a Primaries Marine with a tabard...
Yea it must be hard when your 'only' releases are a ton of new models that make any other factions' releases pale in comparison. I don't know how you cope.
Why don't you buy the new releases?
If the answer is "because I don't like them" then congratulations, you've finally understood.
They're not for my faction, that's why I don't buy them.
The latest releases for 40k have been for your faction so I find your complaint about this equal parts hilarious and tragic.
Isn't that just a rephrased version of "I don't like Space Marines, so I don't buy them"?
If anything is tragic here, it's your incessant gatekeeping about who is allowed to have an opinion on things. Shouldn't you be taking a page out of your own book and stop complaining until Necrons have gotten as many releases as Orks this edition?
I think you'd struggle to find a Space Marine player who's enthusiastic about Primaris Lieutenant relase #48 this edition. We don't want them any more than you guys do. You'd be indignant as all gak if I told you that you should be enthusiastic about more of the same, yet you assume that every Space Marine player unthinkingly, unflinchingly lines up to enthusiastically buy whatever GW releases. Why?
No. I don't particularly dislike SM. I have neither the budget or time to commit to them though. Not that I have to justify why I don't purchase a model to you.
The key difference between Space Marine players and everyone else is that you actually HAVE releases. All the time. Loads of them. And still you complain because this particular model release, despite having a tabard, is not the correct colour and does not have the correct pauldron to suit you. My heart bleeds. Really. It must be hard. Truly the marine player is saintly in their patience.
Meanwhile, though I play a specific 'chapter' of Orks, I'm told that I should be happy for the release of a unit completely unrelated (say - Thraka) to my particular 'chapter'. The double standards at play are unbelievable. Ironically, I'd love a new Thraka model because I'd convert the hell out of it to suit my chapter, which is maybe what you should do with this, if you want new marines in tabards so bad.
Am I telling you that though? No? I'm fairly certain I've consistently been on record saying I want other factions getting more cool things too.
If it's OK for you to want your particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things (which I would 100% support and get behind), why then is it not OK for me to want my particular sub-faction to get dedicated, cool things? What happened to double standards being bad?
Orks are a full Faction
And the example was about how it is unfair to expect all Ork players to be enthusiastic because one particular Ork subfaction gets something that doesn't fit at all into other Ork factions. Like, it says so right there. "Orks" is not the sub-faction, the one to which the "completely unrelated unit", in this case Thraka, belongs to is.
Ehhhhh.. I totally 100% get where non-marine players are coming from in thinking it's silly to compare an SM chapter to a full race like Orks (with their own sub-factions, like Deathskulls, Goffs, Evil Suns, etc), and totally 100% get their frustration with SM players complaining they aren't getting enough support (as exemplified by my response to the "Eldar have gotten more new models in the last two months than Space Marines! HOW DARE!" nonsense above) ... but when you're saying Space Marines are just a sub-faction of Imperium, that's ridiculous. That's like saying Orks are just a sub-faction of Xenos. Yeah, it's not a 1:1 comparison, since Xenos can't synergise like the Imperium or Chaos do, but that's the trade-off for playing a more unique army. The hierarchy is clearly Super-Factions (Imperium, Chaos, Xenos), Factions (Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Orks), and Sub-Factions (Dark Angels, Emperor's Children, Deathskulls).
They are a sub sub faction of the Imperium Faction - I have shown that above - what part of my statement was incorrect.
We're both fully aware your statement was about game design (tabletop representation) and not "fluff" (story representation).
Using fluff arguments as game design arguments is not constructive; acting like you weren't talking about game design at all when someone points that out is just disingenuous.
We do not need to measure and compare the support of Dark angels with the Bad moonz klan culture for a fair discussion because, in terms of game design, they are simply not on the same level and have not been for at least 3 editions.
Both Orks and Dark angels are a full faction when we're talking game design.
I wish they would differentiate the Ork Klans, for example, from each other to a greater degree than today. It allows for a larger span of playstyles in the game without having to invent new factions out of thin air.
They are a sub sub faction of the Imperium Faction - I have shown that above - what part of my statement was incorrect.
We're both fully aware your statement was about game design (tabletop representation) and not "fluff" (story representation).
Using fluff arguments as game design arguments is not constructive; acting like you weren't talking about game design at all when someone points that out is just disingenuous.
We do not need to measure and compare the support of Dark angels with the Bad moonz klan culture for a fair discussion because, in terms of game design, they are simply not on the same level and have not been for at least 3 editions.
Both Orks and Dark angels are a full faction when we're talking game design.
Dark Angels share a HUGE amount of units with several other factions - Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Death Watch - in addition to having soup options with the wider imperium. Ork armies can only field ork units, and only Goffs can field Thraka.
It's... it's just NOT AT ALL COMPARABLE. Saying Dark Angels are the same as Orks relative to release schedule is as ridiculous as saying "Space Marines are a sub-faction of Imperium"!! You're ALL making ridiculous arguments!
I know I'm bored on my holiday break but WHY do I keep tabbing over here... OY!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AlmightyWalrus wrote: I wish they would differentiate the Ork Klans, for example, from each other to a greater degree than today. It allows for a larger span of playstyles in the game without having to invent new factions out of thin air.
Back on topic - I fully expect Saga of the Beast will introduce "create your own clan culture" rules similar to other PA books.
Sure, DA are a full faction but they're also lucky enough to share almost all their units with the overwhelmingly most regularly updated range in space marines.
I think the issue is more along the lines that if SM took a break for a full year from getting releases and that amount of releases instead went into the less lovingly updated factions then we'd be halfway there in regards to phasing out the old gak that's still crumbling around. Obviously SM has plenty of old gak of their own but they still have so many newer sculpts that it almost doesn't matter.
Necrons need plenty of love IMO, Tau should be expanded in regards to aux units, Ork HQs are a freakin disaster. Like you can't go into a store and buy a HQ without having to buy nobs or some KT starter set, everything else is online only. That's just an extremely dumb barrier of entry.
Edit: But in regards to Orks in Saga of the Beast, if they give grots some sort of mini-kultur and give warbikers a justification to exist now that deffkoptas are lowered in points then I'll be happy. Throw on a couple of relics and strats and I'm pleasantly surprised
nataliereed1984 wrote: Ehhhhh.. I totally 100% get where non-marine players are coming from in thinking it's silly to compare an SM chapter to a full race like Orks (with their own sub-factions, like Deathskulls, Goffs, Evil Suns, etc), and totally 100% get their frustration with SM players complaining they aren't getting enough support (as exemplified by my response to the "Eldar have gotten more new models in the last two months than Space Marines! HOW DARE!" nonsense above) ... but when you're saying Space Marines are just a sub-faction of Imperium, that's ridiculous. That's like saying Orks are just a sub-faction of Xenos. Yeah, it's not a 1:1 comparison, since Xenos can't synergise like the Imperium or Chaos do, but that's the trade-off for playing a more unique army. The hierarchy is clearly Super-Factions (Imperium, Chaos, Xenos), Factions (Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Orks), and Sub-Factions (Dark Angels, Emperor's Children, Deathskulls).
Actually I was being generous in just using the Game terms so in reality it should be in fluff/lore terms
Racial Faction: Orks, Eldar, Tyranids, etc and MANKIND
Sub Faction: The Imperium is the largest sub faction of MANKIND - comparable to the entire Craftworlds or a Ork Kulture
Sub-Sub faction: Space Marines is a sub-faction of the Imperium
Sub-sub-sub-faction: Any specific Chapter such as.........Dark Angels.
As there has been incredable indulgence of Marines, especially the Angels and Wolves in the last few decades the support for a few thousand individuals has been massive compared to any of the untold billions of any given race.
The people who gripe about the likes of dark angels, space wolves and blood angels is super super super annoying. They should, and must remember that there was a time when certain factions did not exist in terms of their own army or even in the fluff (Necrons, Tau and Dark Eldar) when these had their own faction codex's, even if dark angels and blood angels was combined.
Now, I can see the annoyance in regards to marine releases in general, but back off on some of the OG factions in the game, it's really really really boring to read the same bullc**p over and over again from the same people.
If we're going to go full-out absurd, then "Racial Faction" is just a subset of "order", which is a subset of "class", which is a subset of "phylum", which is a subset of "kingdom", which is a subset of "domain", which is all gathered under what we call "life".
Except, perhaps, for Daemons and Necrons, which would not be what we understand as "life". Necrons might, but it's a bit iffy.
nataliereed1984 wrote: Ehhhhh.. I totally 100% get where non-marine players are coming from in thinking it's silly to compare an SM chapter to a full race like Orks (with their own sub-factions, like Deathskulls, Goffs, Evil Suns, etc), and totally 100% get their frustration with SM players complaining they aren't getting enough support (as exemplified by my response to the "Eldar have gotten more new models in the last two months than Space Marines! HOW DARE!" nonsense above) ... but when you're saying Space Marines are just a sub-faction of Imperium, that's ridiculous. That's like saying Orks are just a sub-faction of Xenos. Yeah, it's not a 1:1 comparison, since Xenos can't synergise like the Imperium or Chaos do, but that's the trade-off for playing a more unique army. The hierarchy is clearly Super-Factions (Imperium, Chaos, Xenos), Factions (Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Orks), and Sub-Factions (Dark Angels, Emperor's Children, Deathskulls).
Actually I was being generous in just using the Game terms so in reality it should be in fluff/lore terms
Racial Faction: Orks, Eldar, Tyranids, etc and MANKIND
Sub Faction: The Imperium is the largest sub faction of MANKIND - comparable to the entire Craftworlds or a Ork Kulture
Sub-Sub faction: Space Marines is a sub-faction of the Imperium
Sub-sub-sub-faction: Any specific Chapter such as.........Dark Angels.
As there has been incredable indulgence of Marines, especially the Angels and Wolves in the last few decades the support for a few thousand individuals has been massive compared to any of the untold billions of any given race.
Sure, but the release schedule isn't done in accordance with the lore, and even if it did, the lore itself (for very obvious reasons) gives much more attention to humans, so...
And besides, humans are - in the 42nd millennium - far more diverse than any other race, and outnumber every other race (at least in terms of "currently present, awake, and within the galactic disk and the gravitational influence of SMBH Sagittarius A*"). Soooo...
AlmightyWalrus wrote: There's a silly amount of Orks in the Galaxy, almost certainly far more Orks than humans.
I mean, there's a WHOLE LOTTA ORKS, but there's a whole lotta humans and THEN a ton more! If orks outnumbered humans the Imperium would be kaput very, very soon, and there'd be a lot more WAAAGH glyphs on the galactic map.
But... the official lore doesn't give hard numbers so that DOES leave this somewhat open to interpretation. Nonetheless, humans are still a lot more diverse than orks, and the focus of the game is (naturally) skewed towards humans, so... putting "Orks" on the same level as "Imperium" when evaluating release schedules is still very silly.
And, again, I say this as someone who does not currently play Space Marines, DOES play a Xenos army, and DOES love Orkz a lot more than SM.
An Actual Englishman wrote: For the record I've always maintained that all factions should have parity of model releases. Necrons absolutely should have as many releases as Orks and everyone else, no matter the faction.
Oh yeah, I remember you saying that about Sisters. Wait no it was the opposite and Orks would get more because they were more popular . Perplexing!
Notice how almost each codex has a bunch of subfactions? Chapters, Regiments, Craftworlds, Kabals, Orders, Klan, Forge Worlds, Hive Fleet, Tomb World, etc? Notice how the books generally gives you are least some encouragement to create your own? It is my opinion that “Creating your own” should be treated as the default and not the exception but it's usually there nonetheless. There are a few factions that don't have that. Custodes (I think), Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Death Guard, Thousand Sons. For me it is usually a sign that those factions are too small and too restricted to deserve a full codex. Some because they should actually be one of the subfactions (angels and wolves with marines, DG and TS to either CSM or Chaos god dedicated books), others because they just work better as allies, that can be fielded as a force of their own, but more as an exception than as the default expectation (Custodes, Grey Knights, Deathwatch). [edit]I forgot Ynnari. They don't get any subfactions either. But what to say about Ynnari? I'm not even sure how to spell Ynnari.[/edit]
This is the problem when a none native speaker attempts to discuss something in their non-native tongue.
Oh FFS… do you REALLY need to bring xenophobic digs into this? They CLEARLY speak English fluently (arguably more fluently than some native speakers here…) can you at least keep your rebuttals focused on their points rather than their nationality?!
And again, I am saying this as someone who UNDERSTANDS AND SHARES YOUR CORE FRUSTRATION.
I guess now I understand how people who agree with Slayer on his basic points feel.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: The people who gripe about the likes of dark angels, space wolves and blood angels is super super super annoying. They should, and must remember that there was a time when certain factions did not exist in terms of their own army or even in the fluff (Necrons, Tau and Dark Eldar) when these had their own faction codex's, even if dark angels and blood angels was combined.
Now, I can see the annoyance in regards to marine releases in general, but back off on some of the OG factions in the game, it's really really really boring to read the same bullc**p over and over again from the same people.
Removed - Rule #1 please
They've not taken action probably because it is Christmas Day. I doubt you'll find many people outside the emergency services working today.
What I've learned from this thread : I'm not allowed to complain if I don't see a new Ragnar Blackmane model for Saga of the Beast. I can't complain because I play 'Space Marines', even though that particular model is almost 30 years old (and I bought him when he came out).
I also play Eldar, and the majority of my Phoenix Lords (and Warp Spiders) are almost as old. Can't complain there, either, because Necrons haven't had as many units.
Dark Angels got a single model (and a pretty boring one at that), so all the anti-marine players can rejoice and carry on with their Christmas festivities!
Really hope the rules for the DAs are impressive because that model is currently the least inspired among all the new marine characters (besides maybe Tiggy). Also want to see the GKs get a significant boost. Not concerned about TS, you have a Primarch therefore you have no voice
EDIT: Never mind. This is just going to be a repeat of every thread with discussions about Marine releases lately, where the Mods have to come in and sift through the wreckage.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Right now the only realistic primarch return for Loyalists would be Russ.
I am a proponent of the Lions return, but on the tabletop he wouldn't be any different than Guilliman.
I could see him being slightly more shooty, less buffy, possibly faster.
It would be hard to NOT be less buff-y than Guilliman. From a lore perspective, I'd rather see the Lion return. Between him, Luther, and the Fallen, there's a more interesting set of stories to tell. Russ howling at the moon with his dogs sounds kinda boring.
For the sake of all of us, can we please just use the ignore button and prevent EVERY SINGLE RELEASE from descending into the same derivative nonsense?
This is news and rumours, not whining and moaning. Can we get a sub forum for that btw?
[quote=wraith[cs] 780018 10670564 null]What I've learned from this thread : I'm not allowed to complain if I don't see a new Ragnar Blackmane model for Saga of the Beast. I can't complain because I play 'Space Marines', even though that particular model is almost 30 years old (and I bought him when he came out).
I also play Eldar, and the majority of my Phoenix Lords (and Warp Spiders) are almost as old. Can't complain there, either, because Necrons haven't had as many units.
Dang.
Isn't Ragnars head sword and backpack in the SW upgrade sprue? A guy at my club just custom built his own new Ragnar.
Da will most likely get rules bringing them up to the same level pa3 brought ba to.
The more interesting thing will be seeing just how good the new gk mono bonus is. Although I'm glad they're getting it it does open up the question of if they can do it for gk in pa why couldn't they give mono faction bonuses to other factions featured so far in pa?
The ts teaser shows that gw is willing to bring hh rules to 40k once again just like many of the legions rules in faith and fury did. That's good. Just wish they'd go further with it.
cole1114 wrote: My bold prediction: Dangels will be improved enough by this book that they fly to the top of competitive rankings and actually require a nerf.
Not that impossible.
DA were among the best marine factions prior to the marine codex.
If they receive the codex goodies too, they will easily become really strong. Not only that, but DA have always been the best marines at actually killing marines, so in a marine meta they rejoyce.
cole1114 wrote: My bold prediction: Dangels will be improved enough by this book that they fly to the top of competitive rankings and actually require a nerf.
Not that impossible.
DA were among the best marine factions prior to the marine codex.
If they receive the codex goodies too, they will easily become really strong. Not only that, but DA have always been the best marines at actually killing marines, so in a marine meta they rejoyce.
I'm guessing they're gonna get a save boost. And we've all seen what that did to ossiarchs with petrifex elite...
Warnings and suspensions have been handed out like coal and other things one would rather not find in a stocking or under the tree.
That said, kindly stay on topic, do not devolve into whinging about X/Y/Z again for the umpteenth time and please people, do try to be excellent to one another.
warboss wrote: Another great job with a primaris marine! I really do like the proportions other than the wings on the helmet. I would have preferred those to be about 50% smaller to go with the more realistic proportions of the Mk X armor. YMMV.
Yeah, that helmet would have been great for the Primaris Azreal conversion I did not long ago. Not sure how many DA players need another HQ option though - good job most of them just got cheaper I guess!
cole1114 wrote: My bold prediction: Dangels will be improved enough by this book that they fly to the top of competitive rankings and actually require a nerf.
I really hope so. My last game with DA was against Ultras and the difference in rules quality was night and day. Literally every unit they used was affected by some new special rule or stratagem, while my marines were stuck with the unmodified stats.
More than anything I just want my ~3k points of Deathwing to be viable.
You know? I actually kind of love the big ridiculous eff-off Dark Angel helmet-wings on a nice pragmatic knightly little primaris helmet. It's a sort of hilarious blend of Space Marines at their most over-the-top with their most restrained, and old early 90s GW design philosophy meeting the late 2010s design philosophy. I appreciate you, silly little helmet! Keep doing your thing! Don't let the haters bring you down!
nataliereed1984 wrote: And again, I am saying this as someone who UNDERSTANDS AND SHARES YOUR CORE FRUSTRATION.
I share it too. [edit]Redacted: Damn I didn't see there was a full next page after the one I was answering on[/edit] Anyway, if by chance the message was about me, thanks for your comment on my language skills, it's really appreciated!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lazarus got his name on his shoulder lol. What a freak. Everyone knows that shoulders are for writing the name of long dead saints!
nataliereed1984 wrote: And again, I am saying this as someone who UNDERSTANDS AND SHARES YOUR CORE FRUSTRATION.
I share it too. [edit]Redacted: Damn I didn't see there was a full next page after the one I was answering on[/edit]
Anyway, if by chance the message was about me, thanks for your comment on my language skills, it's really appreciated!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lazarus got his name on his shoulder lol. What a freak. Everyone knows that shoulders are for writing the name of long dead saints!
nah the shoulder pads are for writing the names of that space marine hero who wore the armor back in the 37 millenium and you're assured died heroicly, being a hero, for heroic reasons!
Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.
We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.
[quote=wraith[cs] 780018 10670564 null]What I've learned from this thread : I'm not allowed to complain if I don't see a new Ragnar Blackmane model for Saga of the Beast. I can't complain because I play 'Space Marines', even though that particular model is almost 30 years old (and I bought him when he came out).
I also play Eldar, and the majority of my Phoenix Lords (and Warp Spiders) are almost as old. Can't complain there, either, because Necrons haven't had as many units.
nataliereed1984 wrote: And again, I am saying this as someone who UNDERSTANDS AND SHARES YOUR CORE FRUSTRATION.
I share it too. [edit]Redacted: Damn I didn't see there was a full next page after the one I was answering on[/edit]
Anyway, if by chance the message was about me, thanks for your comment on my language skills, it's really appreciated!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lazarus got his name on his shoulder lol. What a freak. Everyone knows that shoulders are for writing the name of long dead saints!
nah the shoulder pads are for writing the names of that space marine hero who wore the armor back in the 37 millenium and you're assured died heroicly, being a hero, for heroic reasons!
If it's primaris the armor didn't exist back in the 37th millennium.
the_scotsman wrote: Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.
We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.
For as few models that they have, harlies is one of the best codexes out there. Nothing is an auto choice and compared to Eldar, they are spoiled for their relics. Strats and WTs are also good.
Things I would like to see...
Troupe Master on skyweaver
Death Jester improvements (maybe even a named character)
An infiltrating foot unit (with rules that center around disruption)
Another hvy version of the voidweaver with different weapons (one being indirect)
A flier
Regardless, they are still a very fun army to play.
the_scotsman wrote: Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.
We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.
For as few models that they have, harlies is one of the best codexes out there. Nothing is an auto choice and compared to Eldar, they are spoiled for their relics. Strats and WTs are also good.
Things I would like to see...
Troupe Master on skyweaver
Death Jester improvements (maybe even a named character)
An infiltrating foot unit (with rules that center around disruption)
Another hvy version of the voidweaver with different weapons (one being indirect)
A flier
Regardless, they are still a very fun army to play.
eh, I disagree, having played them as a full army since their release in 7th I long for the days my wargear and units felt like a fun bag of tricks instead of eldar-shaped slaanesh daemons, but it's OT.
Maybe Harli's vs Custodes, "Golden throne messanger run 2 webway boogaloo?
GW did say everyone will get something. On the other side of that pairing...I’m not sure what Custodes will get. I thought for awhile it’d be sisters of silence but with them getting a WD index I’m not so sure.
the_scotsman wrote: Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.
We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.
Or they could add more options since having 1 choice for infantry, 1 for bike and one for a vehicle (Technically 2 I guess but we all know it's 1) is always going to grow boring fast. At the current state I wish they were still just add ons to the other eldar factions, it seemed like they were planning on fleshing them out, but several years later and here we are still
the_scotsman wrote: Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.
We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.
Or they could add more options since having 1 choice for infantry, 1 for bike and one for a vehicle (Technically 2 I guess but we all know it's 1) is always going to grow boring fast. At the current state I wish they were still just add ons to the other eldar factions, it seemed like they were planning on fleshing them out, but several years later and here we are still
At least we didn't buy into Ynnari.
You know, that fun exciting dynamic faction they introduced and then totally didn't warp and twist and mangle to the point where I don't even know anymore how you would construct a Ynnari army legally.
Or Drukhari, where the army got divided into 3 tiny armies that interact exactly as much as Space Marines interact with Admech.
Or Corsairs. *shudder*
I'm playing an Eldar faction and I've still got rules for all my models, haven't been required to buy 200 bucks of new stuff to keep my lists legal, and haven't seen any wild swings of the nerfbat all edition. Counting those blessings.
nataliereed1984 wrote: And again, I am saying this as someone who UNDERSTANDS AND SHARES YOUR CORE FRUSTRATION.
I share it too. [edit]Redacted: Damn I didn't see there was a full next page after the one I was answering on[/edit]
Anyway, if by chance the message was about me, thanks for your comment on my language skills, it's really appreciated!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lazarus got his name on his shoulder lol. What a freak. Everyone knows that shoulders are for writing the name of long dead saints!
nah the shoulder pads are for writing the names of that space marine hero who wore the armor back in the 37 millenium and you're assured died heroicly, being a hero, for heroic reasons!
If it's primaris the armor didn't exist back in the 37th millennium.
Shoulder pads and some other features are interchangeable.
the_scotsman wrote: Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.
We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.
Or they could add more options since having 1 choice for infantry, 1 for bike and one for a vehicle (Technically 2 I guess but we all know it's 1) is always going to grow boring fast. At the current state I wish they were still just add ons to the other eldar factions, it seemed like they were planning on fleshing them out, but several years later and here we are still
At least we didn't buy into Ynnari.
You know, that fun exciting dynamic faction they introduced and then totally didn't warp and twist and mangle to the point where I don't even know anymore how you would construct a Ynnari army legally.
Or Drukhari, where the army got divided into 3 tiny armies that interact exactly as much as Space Marines interact with Admech.
Or Corsairs. *shudder*
I'm playing an Eldar faction and I've still got rules for all my models, haven't been required to buy 200 bucks of new stuff to keep my lists legal, and haven't seen any wild swings of the nerfbat all edition. Counting those blessings.
Different factions of the Drukhari interact with eachother all the time! They literally need each other in order for their society to function. They hate each other, only fight together out of necessity through clenched teeth, and stab one another in the back the second they get back to Commoragh, but that's all part of the fun of the faction. On top of that, they have special rules regarding how you can construct your army that make it a lot more viable to run multiple smaller detachments (though this gets effed up when tournament rules or whatever ignore them being an exception and insist that Drukhari have to stick to the same three-detachment-max rule as everyone else…).
ANYWAY…
Totally agreed on the mess they made of Ynarri, though. We are now in a situation where the two biggest Ynarri-aligned characters outside of the triad - Lelith Hesperax and Eldrad Ulthuan - CANNOT BE RUN IN YNARRI DETACHMENTS WITH YNARRI RULES. That is… that is definitely something else.
In regards to the Harlequins, Drukhari, and Craftworlds it does feel like the future is more or less Codex: Aeldari rather than three factions meant to stand alone. Hell, I even think the Ynnari was a contingency plan to do just that originally.
Eldarsif wrote: In regards to the Harlequins, Drukhari, and Craftworlds it does feel like the future is more or less Codex: Aeldari rather than three factions meant to stand alone. Hell, I even think the Ynnari was a contingency plan to do just that originally.
I think Ynnari was the method they planned on utilizing to 'freshen up' the range. One of the big things that kept getting hinted at by Goodwin at the time we saw the Visarch was that he might be a sign of how to expect things to look in the future; archaic but new.
It's, personally, a component of why I think it's taken so long for them to actually do anything specific with the Ynnari as a standalone faction. It feels like they intended on the faction getting an army in and of itself.
Eldarsif wrote: In regards to the Harlequins, Drukhari, and Craftworlds it does feel like the future is more or less Codex: Aeldari rather than three factions meant to stand alone. Hell, I even think the Ynnari was a contingency plan to do just that originally.
I think Ynnari was the method they planned on utilizing to 'freshen up' the range. One of the big things that kept getting hinted at by Goodwin at the time we saw the Visarch was that he might be a sign of how to expect things to look in the future; archaic but new.
It's, personally, a component of why I think it's taken so long for them to actually do anything specific with the Ynnari as a standalone faction. It feels like they intended on the faction getting an army in and of itself.
The tie in novels do have at least one other major character they could have introduced (although we are still hampered by the no model, no rules crap)
I donlt recall them having any specilaist units described - its more that the various followers do what they always do?
I must be rare in actually liking the division of the three elements of DE Society in the game, true they could bring back the great characters that they dropped - again because of the no model crap. That woud go along way.
In regards to the Harlequins, Drukhari, and Craftworlds it does feel like the future is more or less Codex: Aeldari rather than three factions meant to stand alone. Hell, I even think the Ynnari was a contingency plan to do just that originally.
Which is fethed up given they are spending so much time deperatly trying to highlight the relatively tiny differences between Marine Chapters but trying to bring together the various Eldar factions which already are so very different.
Eldarsif wrote: In regards to the Harlequins, Drukhari, and Craftworlds it does feel like the future is more or less Codex: Aeldari rather than three factions meant to stand alone. Hell, I even think the Ynnari was a contingency plan to do just that originally.
I think Ynnari was the method they planned on utilizing to 'freshen up' the range. One of the big things that kept getting hinted at by Goodwin at the time we saw the Visarch was that he might be a sign of how to expect things to look in the future; archaic but new.
It's, personally, a component of why I think it's taken so long for them to actually do anything specific with the Ynnari as a standalone faction. It feels like they intended on the faction getting an army in and of itself.
If so, it's weird that they wouldn't have gone with Exodites instead.
I mean, I personally think Exodites sound kind of boring, even with the dinosaurs, but it's one of those rare examples of a significant faction that's been a part of the lore for decades, and a meaningful player on the galactic stage, but hasn't been released.
I mean… is there anyone else like that? Barghesi and Hrud, I guess?
(I personally think Kill Team would be a great context in which to introduce actual Hrud minis. A whole Hrud army doesn't make much sense, but a small band of them? Heck yeah! Would've been a lot more fun for the Rogue Trader expansion than the Gellerpox Infected)
Nightlord1987 wrote: Right now the only realistic primarch return for Loyalists would be Russ.
I am a proponent of the Lions return, but on the tabletop he wouldn't be any different than Guilliman.
They would perform pretty differently, in the HH Guliman was second or third string when it came to his personal combat ability, the Lion was top tier, arguably one of the three strongest. If guilliman could fight mortarion to a stand still, and Magnus could be beaten by a normal marine (grimnar), the Lion would probably be able to take down either of the current daemon primarchs on his own. Which means he would play nothing like guilliman, where as guilliman wants to hang back and buff, the lion would be in the enemies face, deleting entire squads of opponents.
Kanluwen wrote: Exodites don't work as anything outside of a one-off campaign army, unless the fluff is dramatically reworked.
Why not?
Because really they only fight if someone shows up on their doorstep, and they go right back to breeding dinosaurs and picking berries once the Craftworlds wander in and clean their porch.
DaPino wrote: What has been the timeframe for rule previews on the previous books?
I'm dying to find out more about the cult rules for thousand sons.
The Typical Schedule is:
Release Date: Product Available
Release Date - 7 Days: Pre-Order Date
Release Date - 8 to 12 Days: Rules Preview
Release Date - 13 Days: Announcement of Pre-Order next Saturday
DaPino wrote: What has been the timeframe for rule previews on the previous books?
I'm dying to find out more about the cult rules for thousand sons.
The Typical Schedule is:
Release Date: Product Available
Release Date - 7 Days: Pre-Order Date
Release Date - 8 to 12 Days: Rules Preview
Release Date - 13 Days: Announcement of Pre-Order next Saturday
Well, in that case I'm almost hoping we get an announcement of Preorder around Jan. 4, and full release around the 25th.
I wouldn't be surprised to see PA4 previewed this Sunday with pre-order on the 4th. It's a relatively small release they can squeeze in before the Sisters kits later in Jan.
xttz wrote: I wouldn't be surprised to see PA4 previewed this Sunday with pre-order on the 4th. It's a relatively small release they can squeeze in before the Sisters kits later in Jan.
Hopefully that would mean detail articles next week, and we can find out what cool new stuff we are getting.
Kanluwen wrote: Exodites don't work as anything outside of a one-off campaign army, unless the fluff is dramatically reworked.
Why not?
Because really they only fight if someone shows up on their doorstep, and they go right back to breeding dinosaurs and picking berries once the Craftworlds wander in and clean their porch.
Same could be said of Genestealer Cults, actually GSC are worse. They plan for one big fight, then all get digested anyway
Kanluwen wrote: Exodites don't work as anything outside of a one-off campaign army, unless the fluff is dramatically reworked.
Why not?
Because really they only fight if someone shows up on their doorstep, and they go right back to breeding dinosaurs and picking berries once the Craftworlds wander in and clean their porch.
Same could be said of Genestealer Cults, actually GSC are worse. They plan for one big fight, then all get digested anyway
I mean, the Codex lore disputes this. They actively spread their cults to systems, sectors... etc. Many actually make a Pilgrimage to the planet that is being Tyrani-formed by Hive Fleet Tiamat, and then are sent off with a purpose once their 'Prophets' set foot on the world.
I could see Exodites becoming active and beginning a war in the name of Khaine/WorldSpiritKhaine, using the Webway to travel, rather than starships. While I don't think it's likely, the 41st millennium is full of possibilities.
Remember that the Fifth Generation Purestrain Genestealers can be sent out to other areas on the same planet, or even other planets, in order to begin the cycle again...
Not just purestrains, but a whole cult was basically 'regenerated' from a single fourth generation coming back to a planet after it had been purged of a Genestealer infestation... because they had the forethought to send someone off world.
People need to stop acting like GSC are a small contained thing that the Tyranids dismiss as just biomass when they're actually an effective and insidious tool that is used.
Kanluwen wrote: Exodites don't work as anything outside of a one-off campaign army, unless the fluff is dramatically reworked.
Why not?
Because really they only fight if someone shows up on their doorstep, and they go right back to breeding dinosaurs and picking berries once the Craftworlds wander in and clean their porch.
Same could be said of Genestealer Cults, actually GSC are worse. They plan for one big fight, then all get digested anyway
Unless they're wrong or interrupted (See: Vigilus).
Exodites fight only on their own doorstep, but anyone might invade them. The same argument could be made against T'au... their empire is only in a TINY* little portion of the Ultima Segmentum, so they're "supposed" to only fight Imperial Guard, Orks, Drukhari, Chaos, Ultramarines and other nearby chapters, Deathwatch & Ordo Xenos, Sautekh Dynasty, Order of the Argent Shroud, Triplex Phall, Hive Fleets Kraken, Behemoth and MAYBE Leviathan, and whichever craftworld is around there (I forget). But we make it work. We think up explanations, or, alternatively, don't care. It's worked fine for over half of 40k's existence.
One can always fall back on "the warp did it", after all.
If GW wanted to build a whole new Eldar faction, Exodites would've been at least as viable as Ynnari.
Nonetheless, here we are. They tried Ynarri, and either changed their minds, or completely flubbed the landing.
But I'd hope we can all agree that despite troupe versatility, Harlequins could really, really, REALLY use a broader choice of units, and PA would be a nice excuse to give it to them.
Carnikang wrote: Not just purestrains, but a whole cult was basically 'regenerated' from a single fourth generation coming back to a planet after it had been purged of a Genestealer infestation... because they had the forethought to send someone off world.
People need to stop acting like GSC are a small contained thing that the Tyranids dismiss as just biomass when they're actually an effective and insidious tool that is used.
Yup, they note in the codex that sometimes the Tyranids never even turn up so the cult simply continues to expand until they are stopped.
In PA1, it's written that some younger Exodites have become more proactive about this whole rebuilding the Eldar empire thing and have fought alongside the Biel-Tan Swordwind. So GW could if they wanted justify the introduction of Exodites as a faction by using this angle of them stirring from their previous isolation.
If GW could retcon Oldcrons into Newcrons, bring back multiple Primarchs, split the Imperium in two, blow up Cadia, and create the Ynnari ex nihilo, I'm sure they can think up a reason for dinosaur-riding Amish Eldar to get involved in galactic politics.
Come to think of it... Harlequins don't even have any named characters...
And wasn't that female Shadowseer character, who's been big in the lore, a big part of the initial trailers, featuring that bald female inquisitor?
Honestly... that would be an IDEAL Harlequin release! Give them a mini for a cool, compelling named character, who plays a significant role in the current story, is herself a psyker, and has tons of pre-existing backstory!
Give me her and Fulgrim at the culmination of PA and I'll be thinking, despite not playing either faction (as of yet), "You know? Not bad, GW. Coulda been better, but nice conclusion".
xttz wrote: I wouldn't be surprised to see PA4 previewed this Sunday with pre-order on the 4th. It's a relatively small release they can squeeze in before the Sisters kits later in Jan.
Hopefully that would mean detail articles next week, and we can find out what cool new stuff we are getting.
I am really hoping it's preorder 4th and out on 11th. 11th is deadline for new material to be allowed at LVO in Vegas. I'd like to take DAs if possible, but don't want to take them with existing rules. So currently my schedule is, keep painting Ravenguard, hope for DA release on 11th (giving me 2 days to decide on list) and fall back on Eldar wraiths if the other 2 fail
I guess we will know this Sunday if the DA will be preorder on the 4th,.
nataliereed1984 wrote: Come to think of it... Harlequins don't even have any named characters...
And wasn't that female Shadowseer character, who's been big in the lore, a big part of the initial trailers, featuring that bald female inquisitor?
Honestly... that would be an IDEAL Harlequin release! Give them a mini for a cool, compelling named character, who plays a significant role in the current story, is herself a psyker, and has tons of pre-existing backstory!
Give me her and Fulgrim at the culmination of PA and I'll be thinking, despite not playing either faction (as of yet), "You know? Not bad, GW. Coulda been better, but nice conclusion".
You mean Sylandri Veilwalker?
The problem is we're not sure whether that's really the name of an individual or the name of a character role, like the Dread Pirate Roberts, since as far as we know Harlequins give up their identities and literally become the characters they play.
nataliereed1984 wrote: Come to think of it... Harlequins don't even have any named characters...
And wasn't that female Shadowseer character, who's been big in the lore, a big part of the initial trailers, featuring that bald female inquisitor?
Honestly... that would be an IDEAL Harlequin release! Give them a mini for a cool, compelling named character, who plays a significant role in the current story, is herself a psyker, and has tons of pre-existing backstory!
Give me her and Fulgrim at the culmination of PA and I'll be thinking, despite not playing either faction (as of yet), "You know? Not bad, GW. Coulda been better, but nice conclusion".
You mean Sylandri Veilwalker?
The problem is we're not sure whether that's really the name of an individual or the name of a character role, like the Dread Pirate Roberts, since as far as we know Harlequins give up their identities and literally become the characters they play.
Basically a Phoenix lord then.... It really doesn't matter if it's one or the other really, it only partially affects the fluff if that, it wouldn't stop a special character with the 'name'.
dan2026 wrote: Are Harlys the olny faction in the game that doesn't have a named special character?
Thats pretty weird when you think about it.
Would make sense then to introduce one with their eventual PA book.
Sisters of Silence - they have one coming with a new model though.
I should of said codex faction really.
In fact Harlys also have the lowest unit codex unit count in the game at 7.
Even Custards have more. And they have a special character!
I want to know what’s gonna be happening with Orks and AdMech the most. I hope AdMech are in the next book, I’m really curious to find out what the wing rumour engine ends up being.
Genestealer Cults are in a weird spot and have been since their inception with the Primus, Patriarch, and Magus. They were limited more or less like special characters but were unnamed.
the_scotsman wrote: Honestly, harlequins do not need more random army-wide rules, they need an update to their base rules to make them less one note and boring.
We have tons of troupe-specific stuff, stratagems, warlord traits, etc...the problem is that the rules for troupes, bikes, and death jesters are soooooo booooring in 8th.
Or they could add more options since having 1 choice for infantry, 1 for bike and one for a vehicle (Technically 2 I guess but we all know it's 1) is always going to grow boring fast. At the current state I wish they were still just add ons to the other eldar factions, it seemed like they were planning on fleshing them out, but several years later and here we are still
At least we didn't buy into Ynnari.
You know, that fun exciting dynamic faction they introduced and then totally didn't warp and twist and mangle to the point where I don't even know anymore how you would construct a Ynnari army legally.
Or Drukhari, where the army got divided into 3 tiny armies that interact exactly as much as Space Marines interact with Admech.
Or Corsairs. *shudder*
I'm playing an Eldar faction and I've still got rules for all my models, haven't been required to buy 200 bucks of new stuff to keep my lists legal, and haven't seen any wild swings of the nerfbat all edition. Counting those blessings.
Different factions of the Drukhari interact with eachother all the time! They literally need each other in order for their society to function. They hate each other, only fight together out of necessity through clenched teeth, and stab one another in the back the second they get back to Commoragh, but that's all part of the fun of the faction. On top of that, they have special rules regarding how you can construct your army that make it a lot more viable to run multiple smaller detachments (though this gets effed up when tournament rules or whatever ignore them being an exception and insist that Drukhari have to stick to the same three-detachment-max rule as everyone else…).
ANYWAY…
Totally agreed on the mess they made of Ynarri, though. We are now in a situation where the two biggest Ynarri-aligned characters outside of the triad - Lelith Hesperax and Eldrad Ulthuan - CANNOT BE RUN IN YNARRI DETACHMENTS WITH YNARRI RULES. That is… that is definitely something else.
Yeah, we can take 3 HQs and 3 troops and gain 3CP, or we can take a Battalion with 2Cp and 3 troops and gain 5CP. Very viable, much special rule, wow.
Craftworld Eldar detachments synergize better with Drukhari units than Drukhari units from different factions synergize with each other, because I can cast psychic powers from my craftworld units like Jinx, Terrify, and Doom and have them interact with my Drukhari units.
Like I said, the interactions you get between them are identical to what you get if you bring Space Marines and Admech in the same list. They're available as allies, and that's...about it?
dan2026 wrote: Are Harlys the olny faction in the game that doesn't have a named special character?
Thats pretty weird when you think about it.
Would make sense then to introduce one with their eventual PA book.
Militarum Tempestus used to not, but getting rolled into the main codex changes that on technicality.
We actually did have a named character added near the end of 7th. He came in the "Death Masque" box.
His model was the normal Death Jester model, you didn't get a new model for him.
He added 1 special rule to the standard Death Jester rules.
In the little fluff booklet alongside the Deathwatch special character they released with the same box (Who did have a unique mini, and is still in the game) he got shot in the face at the end of the book after the Harlequins lost spectacularly.
And then when 8th dropped he poofed out of existence. I think they mentioned at some point in the Rising Storm fluff that he's some kind of force ghost now?
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww yeah Xenos rule support!!!
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Voss wrote: Except, you know, multiple traits, relics and army rules for free.
But yeah, identical other than that minor detail.
What do you mean? Do Admech and Marines not get their army traits, relics and rules if you take them as allies?
Or are you referring to the fact that there are a couple generic Drukhari relics you can choose to take on different drukhari HQs?
Genestealer Cults are in a weird spot and have been since their inception with the Primus, Patriarch, and Magus. They were limited more or less like special characters but were unnamed.
Which is AWESOME by the way, and I wish they would do this for more factions. I get the fun, flavorful rules you usually get with special characters, but it's not limited to a certain sub-faction and as a trade-off they're not spammable. GSC special characters are how everyone's special characters should work.
dan2026 wrote: Are Harlys the olny faction in the game that doesn't have a named special character?
Thats pretty weird when you think about it.
Would make sense then to introduce one with their eventual PA book.
Sisters of Silence - they have one coming with a new model though.
I should of said codex faction really.
Genestealer Cults.
I guess you are right.
It just feels weird because GS Cults have had so much more support than Harlys it isn't even funny.
Cults have 20 unique units by my count, where as Harlys have only 8!
And one of those 8 you can only take 1 per army!
the_scotsman wrote: Which is AWESOME by the way, and I wish they would do this for more factions. I get the fun, flavorful rules you usually get with special characters, but it's not limited to a certain sub-faction and as a trade-off they're not spammable. GSC special characters are how everyone's special characters should work.
Yes exactly! Named characters are so unnecessary. If you want your character to have a name, give them one! I'm so sad that all these new awesome Primaris characters are chapter locked, I'd much prefer if they were generic as the Primaris could certainly use some variety in their HQ loadouts.
The Thousand Sons can now dedicate their Sorcerers to one of the nine Cults of the Legion – a callback to their arcane roots on fallen Prospero – providing them with a plethora of new tactical options.
Would you say I have a plethora of new tactical options?
Note how they used the phrase "tactical options" and not "powers" or "abilities". My prediction is that Thousand Sons will get 9 new stratagems, each locked to a specific Cult keyword. Then they'll get a special rule that will allow a pure Thousand Sons army to give each sorcerer or exalted sorcerer a Cult of the Legion keyword from a list of 9. The keyword won't confer any bonus but will allow use of the associated stratagem.
Voss wrote: Except, you know, multiple traits, relics and army rules for free.
But yeah, identical other than that minor detail.
What do you mean? Do Admech and Marines not get their army traits, relics and rules if you take them as allies?
Or are you referring to the fact that there are a couple generic Drukhari relics you can choose to take on different drukhari HQs?
I'm saying that you should probably read the Dark Eldar codex if you think its 'identical.' If you bring an archon, haemonculus and succubus, they each get a warlord trait and relic. The kabal, coven and kult each get their obsesssions and general army traits and having the others turns nothing off.
The Thousand Sons can now dedicate their Sorcerers to one of the nine Cults of the Legion – a callback to their arcane roots on fallen Prospero – providing them with a plethora of new tactical options.
Would you say I have a plethora of new tactical options?
Note how they used the phrase "tactical options" and not "powers" or "abilities". My prediction is that Thousand Sons will get 9 new stratagems, each locked to a specific Cult keyword. Then they'll get a special rule that will allow a pure Thousand Sons army to give each sorcerer or exalted sorcerer a Cult of the Legion keyword from a list of 9. The keyword won't confer any bonus but will allow use of the associated stratagem.
The Thousand Sons can now dedicate their Sorcerers to one of the nine Cults of the Legion – a callback to their arcane roots on fallen Prospero – providing them with a plethora of new tactical options.
Would you say I have a plethora of new tactical options?
Note how they used the phrase "tactical options" and not "powers" or "abilities". My prediction is that Thousand Sons will get 9 new stratagems, each locked to a specific Cult keyword. Then they'll get a special rule that will allow a pure Thousand Sons army to give each sorcerer or exalted sorcerer a Cult of the Legion keyword from a list of 9. The keyword won't confer any bonus but will allow use of the associated stratagem.
A whole planet was pulled out from the warp and its the TS home planet, Magnus is pulling off the biggest spell in the history of spells, and yet... this is a DA book, we'll just get a bunch of stratagems, and get roundhouse kicked in the teeth to showcase how cool marines are.
Feels bad man, I don't get why they didn't just release marine supplements instead of hijaking Psychic awakening for everybody else, did we run out of marine chapters yet?
the_scotsman wrote: Which is AWESOME by the way, and I wish they would do this for more factions. I get the fun, flavorful rules you usually get with special characters, but it's not limited to a certain sub-faction and as a trade-off they're not spammable. GSC special characters are how everyone's special characters should work.
Yes exactly! Named characters are so unnecessary. If you want your character to have a name, give them one! I'm so sad that all these new awesome Primaris characters are chapter locked, I'd much prefer if they were generic as the Primaris could certainly use some variety in their HQ loadouts.
They would need to bring back actually having plenty of options for Characters rather than the mess we see with the latest Canoness rules.
characters and another teased 
