If the Blood Angels had Captain Dracula on Giant Vampire Bat you'd rip the piss out of them too, but they don't.
Canis Wolfborn was really the one that started the heavy handed wolf thing - his name is basically Wolfy mcWolfface, he's equipped with Wolf Claws, he's riding a Wolf... There's nothing comparable in the blood angels or dark angels ranges.
"Leman Russ, most fearsome of the Emperor's primarch sons"
So Mortarion, Horus, Curze, Angron and Perturabo don't count? All of those were pretty scary even before they turned traitor and became actual literal daemons and/or glowing red.
EDIT:
Bull0 wrote: If the Blood Angels had Captain Dracula on Giant Vampire Bat you'd rip the piss out of them too, but they don't.
Canis Wolfborn was really the one that started the heavy handed wolf thing - his name is basically Wolfy mcWolfface, he's equipped with Wolf Claws, he's riding a Wolf... There's nothing comparable in the blood angels or dark angels ranges.
No, but the Blood Angels do have "blood fists" on their Dreadnoughts instead of power fists, even though they're exactly the same thing. And bloodstrike missiles. It's not as bad as the Space Wolves - they've yet to get Thunderblood Cavalry or Angelblood Bloodtalon Gunships - but it's still pretty bad.
Bull0 wrote: If the Blood Angels had Captain Dracula on Giant Vampire Bat you'd rip the piss out of them too, but they don't.
Canis Wolfborn was really the one that started the heavy handed wolf thing - his name is basically Wolfy mcWolfface, he's equipped with Wolf Claws, he's riding a Wolf... There's nothing comparable in the blood angels or dark angels ranges.
Pretty much this.
And the fact that he has claws... could you think of a less useful weapon for a cavalryman outside of just stock standard power fists?
Bull0 wrote: If the Blood Angels had Captain Dracula on Giant Vampire Bat you'd rip the piss out of them too, but they don't.
Canis Wolfborn was really the one that started the heavy handed wolf thing - his name is basically Wolfy mcWolfface, he's equipped with Wolf Claws, he's riding a Wolf... There's nothing comparable in the blood angels or dark angels ranges.
I wasn't implying that the Dark Angels or Blood Angels were comparable. I was simply stating that everybody picks and models their armies how ever they like. For the record if there was a Bat rider in 40k i would not " rip the piss out of them". I would just say its not for me, but I will gladly kill it in a game.
Accolade wrote: I like that it keeps the marines look less like caricatures of their particular themes. Space Wolves are particularly egregious with this in 40k, saturated head-to-toe in wolves.
What? You don't like these?
Or these?
Imagine if we could have a werewolf Space Wolf dude with wolf claws riding a space wolf? Wouldn't that be awesome?
Personally Canis Wolfborn is the Miniature that got me into Space Wolves. I never understood the bashing people do of what other people like. For me I like my Space wolves on thunderwolves or turned into werewolves, for others not so much. I personally have no interest in Blood angels or Dark angels, but I can see why people like them, and I don't go shame them for too many robes or winged blood drops on their models.This hobby is about getting together with friends or meeting new people. Not slamming things other people like just because you don't. Everybody has a opinion, and that is what message boards are for. But you can say you do not like something without insulting the people who do.
Brilliant post.
The truth is the hobby is what you make of it, if someone really doesn't like the overly wolfy aesthetic of the Space wolves, but still likes their old fluff, there's absolutely nothing stopping them building a classic looking space wolf army, there are plenty of bits available to do just that, especially on forgeworld.
kronk wrote: Showed my wife the box contents and told her I was thinking of ordering one. She emailed back, you're getting 2, right? (She wants the Sisters).
fething A!
That's how you know GW nailed it with this release
kronk wrote: Showed my wife the box contents and told her I was thinking of ordering one. She emailed back, you're getting 2, right? (She wants the Sisters).
fething A!
Oh if your wife is ok...
Perfect wife ever *_*
I'll take 2 box for my New Space Wolves project Custodes and Sisters is just for fun.
Death Company should totally have bat-winged jump troops with space vampire heads! EASY retcon job for a new unit, and just give everything Shred and Rending and peeps will buy them whether they like the models or not!
Ashenwyte wrote: They're definitely going to be released separately, as the Custodes are a multi part kit.
The Custodes shields look great. I'll have to use them as storm shields.
That's what I am hoping. Getting five more for a total of ten would be great. I like the Shields as well. The Custodes look over-the-top but that is a good thing, IMO. More Tartaros Terminators would be good too.
Almost certain. Everything in BaC is out on its own, and Custodes will probably be mighty popular anyway (especially with 40k rules as well).
On an unrelated note, if anyone in the UK is planning to pre-order and wants to offload the Sisters for a reasonable price, please let me know, I'd love to pick up a squad but it'll be a while before I can afford the full BoP set.
Azazelx wrote: Speaking of books, which HH novels go with the Prospero box? Obviously Prospero Burns. Any others?
And which - if any - go with Betrayal at Calth?
Know No Fear is the first Calth book, and A Thousand Sons is the good Prospero book.
If you think Space Wolf minis have gotten silly, just wait until you read Abnett's Prospero Burns, an attempt to distance Space Wolves from their slightly campy William King days by going full Batman and Robin over-the-top stupid.
How do the Custodes work rule wise? Are they another faction like the Deathwatch? Wouldn't mind picking them and the Sisters up for some Allies for my Dark Angels.
Paradigm wrote: Almost certain. Everything in BaC is out on its own, and Custodes will probably be mighty popular anyway (especially with 40k rules as well).
On an unrelated note, if anyone in the UK is planning to pre-order and wants to offload the Sisters for a reasonable price, please let me know, I'd love to pick up a squad but it'll be a while before I can afford the full BoP set.
I'm hoping for separate releases for both Custodes and Sisters of Silence, but I'm always of the opinion of I'll not bank on it until I see it. I know Custodes should see a separate release, but how likely are Sisters to get the same?
I am also in the boat of wanting to pick up a squad of Sisters if people are planning on offloading them. We already have too many marines to justify buying another huge boxed set with 30 more Tac Marines just for the 5 Custodes and 5 Sisters. (I am under no illusion that people would sell their Custodes - crossing fingers for the separate army/box release for them.)
jreilly89 wrote: How do the Custodes work rule wise? Are they another faction like the Deathwatch? Wouldn't mind picking them and the Sisters up for some Allies for my Dark Angels.
I hope so. I really, really hope so. Lore wise I am beyond in love with Custodes, and want to field them more than anything.
Mathematically custodes should cost around £10 for 5. £95 for the box, I rounded up to £100. 47 miniatures, I rounded up to 50. Selling them for 15 (what i'm willing to pay) would get you a nice profit
Bull0 wrote: If the Blood Angels had Captain Dracula on Giant Vampire Bat you'd rip the piss out of them too, but they don't.
Canis Wolfborn was really the one that started the heavy handed wolf thing - his name is basically Wolfy mcWolfface, he's equipped with Wolf Claws, he's riding a Wolf... There's nothing comparable in the blood angels or dark angels ranges.
Weeeeeeell BA did had that vibe in 5-th edition - Blood angels Sanguinary guard with angelus boltguns that fires bloodshard ammo)
And there was that overly-angelic parts - and wings in particulary - Sanguinor-Astorath-Sanguinary guard all came with wings and wing bits.
Thankfuly that wasn't heavily used in new 7-th edition.
But I agree space wolves in 40k looks like they lived in Eye of terror all this years becoming a blue dog-worshipers instead of harsh-brutal-grey-norse-warriors as they were in 30k.
I think Prospero box is a perfect start for a truth space wolves player, not that McWolfy posers on wolves.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: So it looks like at long last SM are getting access to the mighty reaper autocannon. Maybe they'll finally be able to compete with their traitorous brethren on an even footing!
NivlacSupreme wrote: Mathematically custodes should cost around £10 for 5. £95 for the box, I rounded up to £100. 47 miniatures, I rounded up to 50. Selling them for 15 (what i'm willing to pay) would get you a nice profit
Even people selling off parts of the box are going to charge way more then that. Calth marines in sets of 10 were selling for 25$+ GWs contemptor selling separate is 60$, so people sell it for 30 on ebay. Basically take the price you think GW will sell it for, and half it and that is what it is worth on the secondhand market.
Some guesses, but based on calth...
10 Marines = 50$ gw = 25$ ebay
5 Custodes = 60$ gw = 30$ ebay
5 sisters = 60$ gw 30$ ebay
5 Termies = 65$ gw = 40$ ebay
Characters 50$ gw = 15$ish ebay (yea less then half but they are not in a high demand so they usually sell cheap.)
They might go 50 for SoS and Custodes, but I easily see them charging same as 5 termies.
This is why its just always better to buy this big box and sell off what you don't need then to buy a single box as it is crazy expensive.
I really like what they are doing with these themed Games in a Box, and in this case (just like BaC before it), the models are multi-part kits that will be released later. It gives people an opportunity to get the new minis and a (possibly) cool themed game to go along with them for cheaper than you would be able to buy them individually later. I love the characters, I love the Custodes and SoS, I even love most of the Marines...I've just never been a fan of the medieval knight looking helmets on the MkII/MkIII armor. I realize they are paying homage to the clasic design/concept art and cover art on the HH novels, and really these are a cleaned up CAD version of the ForgeWorld versions anyway...I just think they look goofy. I know this will appeal to tons of 40k/30k fans though, so good on GW and overall I am impressed despite my minor aesthetic nitpick.
I don't have the time or desire to keep up with all of the 30k novels and lore, but I still have a deep rooted love and appreciation for the whole HH concept as a back story to the 40k universe. I hope they keep doing stuff like this and developing the range of plastic models further...ultimately giving us the entire range of power armor marks from MkI to MkVIII and possibly beyond. The options create much more variety for collectors/gamers to field/paint Space Marine legions made up of several different versions. To me this makes sense thematically, showing the reverence they show for the wargear due to it's historical, spiritual, and monetary value to the chapter. It also allows collectors/gamers to field the Traitor Legions they want at the historical time-frame they desire AND makes for some really cool eclectic 40K Chaos Space Marine forces when mixed with the current (and hopefully, future) range of kits available.
I still want to do a Dark Angels Legion in their original black armor, but I am a sucker for MkVI Corvus 'beakie' armor as I first started collecting Space Marines back in the Rogue Trader era of the game. So, I am a bit torn, as I don't really know 'canon-wise' when the armor color change 'officially' happened....and, I'm operating under the assumption that MkVI power armor came post-HH and the breakup of the legions into chapters.
Also, I still hold on fairly strongly to the lore presented in the Deathwing expansion to the original Space Hulk game where the Deathwing started painting their Terminator armor bone-white (and Native American tribe theme, feathers, etc.) after the incident where Cloud Runner and friends liberated their plains-people tribes from the Genestealer infestation on their recruiting world. Was this before or after they changed from black to green? Has this been retconned?
Any of you lore-gurus care to enlighten me on how all of these issues 'line-up' historically in canon?
Paradigm wrote: Almost certain. Everything in BaC is out on its own, and Custodes will probably be mighty popular anyway (especially with 40k rules as well).
On an unrelated note, if anyone in the UK is planning to pre-order and wants to offload the Sisters for a reasonable price, please let me know, I'd love to pick up a squad but it'll be a while before I can afford the full BoP set.
I'm hoping for separate releases for both Custodes and Sisters of Silence, but I'm always of the opinion of I'll not bank on it until I see it. I know Custodes should see a separate release, but how likely are Sisters to get the same?
I am also in the boat of wanting to pick up a squad of Sisters if people are planning on offloading them. We already have too many marines to justify buying another huge boxed set with 30 more Tac Marines just for the 5 Custodes and 5 Sisters. (I am under no illusion that people would sell their Custodes - crossing fingers for the separate army/box release for them.)
Just as likely that the Sisters will get a seperate release as the Custodes. They're both full multipart multi-option kits.
Fango wrote: I still want to do a Dark Angels Legion in their original black armor, but I am a sucker for MkVI Corvus 'beakie' armor as I first started collecting Space Marines back in the Rogue Trader era of the game. So, I am a bit torn, as I don't really know 'canon-wise' when the armor color change 'officially' happened....and, I'm operating under the assumption that MkVI power armor came post-HH and the breakup of the legions into chapters.
Also, I still hold on fairly strongly to the lore presented in the Deathwing expansion to the original Space Hulk game where the Deathwing started painting their Terminator armor bone-white (and Native American tribe theme, feathers, etc.) after the incident where Cloud Runner and friends liberated their plains-people tribes from the Genestealer infestation on their recruiting world. Was this before or after they changed from black to green? Has this been retconned?
Any of you lore-gurus care to enlighten me on how all of these issues 'line-up' historically in canon?
MK VI armour were available during the heresy. The Raven guard had the most of them and were primarily responsible for the field testing of that mark but it did feature among other legions as well, though in lesser quantities. So you can absolutely use some mark VI in a Dark angels force.
The deathwing incident would most certainly have taken place after the heresy and thus after changing of the armour color to green, which happened in the direct aftermath of the heresy, during the battle of Caliban. Before that, the Dark angels recruited primarily (exclusively?) from Caliban, so the mere fact that Cloud Runner and friends visit their recruiting world is a good indication. Also, genestealer cults generally didn't pop up until well after the heresy was long finished.
jreilly89 wrote: How do the Custodes work rule wise? Are they another faction like the Deathwatch? Wouldn't mind picking them and the Sisters up for some Allies for my Dark Angels.
Don't think that the Dark Angels would want the Custodes anywhere near their operations...
jreilly89 wrote: How do the Custodes work rule wise? Are they another faction like the Deathwatch? Wouldn't mind picking them and the Sisters up for some Allies for my Dark Angels.
Don't think that the Dark Angels would want the Custodes anywhere near their operations...
Fango wrote: I still want to do a Dark Angels Legion in their original black armor, but I am a sucker for MkVI Corvus 'beakie' armor as I first started collecting Space Marines back in the Rogue Trader era of the game. So, I am a bit torn, as I don't really know 'canon-wise' when the armor color change 'officially' happened....and, I'm operating under the assumption that MkVI power armor came post-HH and the breakup of the legions into chapters.
It happened because of a miscommunication between GW and the artist for the original Space Marine: Epic Battles in the Horus Heresy box. They were supposed to have black armor in the art but somehow they got painted as dark green. Here is a little heresy for ya: Since that box art is specifically for a Horus Heresy product, the Dark Angels had green armor DURING the heresy...
That said, my Dark Angels were painted BEFORE the big boo boo and they will remain black until the end of their days...
Fango wrote: I still want to do a Dark Angels Legion in their original black armor, but I am a sucker for MkVI Corvus 'beakie' armor as I first started collecting Space Marines back in the Rogue Trader era of the game. So, I am a bit torn, as I don't really know 'canon-wise' when the armor color change 'officially' happened....and, I'm operating under the assumption that MkVI power armor came post-HH and the breakup of the legions into chapters.
It happened because of a miscommunication between GW and the artist for the original Space Marine: Epic Battles in the Horus Heresy box. They were supposed to have black armor in the art but somehow they got painted as dark green. Here is a little heresy for ya: Since that box art is specifically for a Horus Heresy product, the Dark Angels had green armor DURING the heresy...
That said, my Dark Angels were painted BEFORE the big boo boo and they will remain black until the end of their days...
Tim
Thanks for that. This is one of my favorite pieces of official 40k art, hands down. They seem have Mk7-style helmets as well.
Fango wrote: I still want to do a Dark Angels Legion in their original black armor, but I am a sucker for MkVI Corvus 'beakie' armor as I first started collecting Space Marines back in the Rogue Trader era of the game. So, I am a bit torn, as I don't really know 'canon-wise' when the armor color change 'officially' happened....and, I'm operating under the assumption that MkVI power armor came post-HH and the breakup of the legions into chapters.
It happened because of a miscommunication between GW and the artist for the original Space Marine: Epic Battles in the Horus Heresy box. They were supposed to have black armor in the art but somehow they got painted as dark green.
That's the out-of-universe reason. In-universe, they changed color at the end of the heresy, after the siege of terra.
I think it's a rather neat touch to incorporate stuff like that miscommunication into the lore.
With the 40k rules for Sisters, I'm interested as to how the fluff is going to be rewritten - we know Custodes still exist in 40k - and we know "blanks" exist but in even rarer numbers. As far as I know there are no 40k era Sisters references ? We know the 40k black ships are crewed by Inquisition / SoB.
With Primarchs coming back I am wondering if we're going to see some time shenanigans going on or the Imperium accessing some heresy era failsafes like the one hinted at in codex grey knights.
Looks like I will be needing 30 Boarding Shields to make my Breachers. Luckily there is a nice Shapeways site that sells them for $18 USD for 10 shields. That is less than half of what Forgeworld charges.
Azazelx wrote: Speaking of books, which HH novels go with the Prospero box? Obviously Prospero Burns. Any others?
And which - if any - go with Betrayal at Calth?
Know No Fear is the first Calth book, and A Thousand Sons is the good Prospero book.
If you think Space Wolf minis have gotten silly, just wait until you read Abnett's Prospero Burns, an attempt to distance Space Wolves from their slightly campy William King days by going full Batman and Robin over-the-top stupid.
Do you think the boardgame will contain wet leopards, and will they be growling?
Prospero Burns was a great read!!!
it made the Wolves look proper badass...
i like both books...
A Thousand Sons is from the Prospero side, and Prospero Burns is from the Fenris side...
both give a great look into the culture of each Legion, and their planets...
very informative novels, in my opinion, and i would recommend reading both just for the background they provide
I have my name on the list for Burning of Prospero and I have three Mk IV Tactical Squads on their way. My Imperial Fists will be up and running soon. I hope the Custodes rules are good. I am thinking I will make a few with the sword/shield and a few with the spear. I still can't fully decide what I want to do with the Sisters of Silence. I really need to see more of their models to make a decision. I will be selling off Ahriman. I want to keep the cool looking Wolf Lord though.
Seeing this follow up box for the Horus Heresy and it becoming even more popular amongst players/ collectors. I'm very much in anticipation of another Horus Heresy box set next year containing the standard legion specific 2 characters, the rumoured new jet bikes x3, plastic javelin attack speeder x1, x30 MK6 armour marines possibly the box would/could be based on Alpha Legion vs Raven Guard?
I'm really hoping on something along these lines, will be perfect to boost my alpha legion force..
If the next game was Emperor, Sanguinius and Horus I'd buy it, even if the gameplay was just a straight copy of the White Dwarf Horus vs Emprah on the battle barge game. Especially as me and my brother played that more times than any other GW game - it was amazing fun!
Jamie24 wrote: Seeing this follow up box for the Horus Heresy and it becoming even more popular amongst players/ collectors. I'm very much in anticipation of another Horus Heresy box set next year containing the standard legion specific 2 characters, the rumoured new jet bikes x3, plastic javelin attack speeder x1, x30 MK6 armour marines possibly the box would/could be based on Alpha Legion vs Raven Guard?
I'm really hoping on something along these lines, will be perfect to boost my alpha legion force..
What are people's thoughts?
J
I think we should wait til Sad Panda/atia pipes up. Til then that rumour is salty at best.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Ok, secured my set (hopefully) along with a set of Calth.
60 Marines... what will I do with those?
Hopefully you were able to get a discount on them. I hate to see how much that would cost you if you paid full price. As for 60 marines, what chapter are you looking at and is it 30K or 40K you going to make them into?
Jamie24 wrote: Seeing this follow up box for the Horus Heresy and it becoming even more popular amongst players/ collectors. I'm very much in anticipation of another Horus Heresy box set next year containing the standard legion specific 2 characters, the rumoured new jet bikes x3, plastic javelin attack speeder x1, x30 MK6 armour marines possibly the box would/could be based on Alpha Legion vs Raven Guard?
I'm really hoping on something along these lines, will be perfect to boost my alpha legion force..
What are people's thoughts?
J
I think we should wait til Sad Panda/atia pipes up. Til then that rumour is salty at best.
Even if it was a plastic version of the Scimitar jet bikes that would still be cool...
Davor wrote: Hopefully you were able to get a discount on them. I hate to see how much that would cost you if you paid full price. As for 60 marines, what chapter are you looking at and is it 30K or 40K you going to make them into?
I never buy retail prices. That's a mug's game. So yeah, I found a way to not pay the stupid price GWOZ wants for them.
If FW made Ultramarine Cataphractii pads, I'd get some'a them. Overall I don't know what I want to do with them. Some of them will become Deathwatch, I know that, but the rest?
My fav Heresy-era Legion has always been World Eaters.
Davor wrote: Hopefully you were able to get a discount on them. I hate to see how much that would cost you if you paid full price. As for 60 marines, what chapter are you looking at and is it 30K or 40K you going to make them into?
I never buy retail prices. That's a mug's game. So yeah, I found a way to not pay the stupid price GWOZ wants for them.
If FW made Ultramarine Cataphractii pads, I'd get some'a them. Overall I don't know what I want to do with them. Some of them will become Deathwatch, I know that, but the rest?
My fav Heresy-era Legion has always been World Eaters.
You are lucky. I have yet to find a discount retailer in Japan.
Jamie24 wrote: Seeing this follow up box for the Horus Heresy and it becoming even more popular amongst players/ collectors. I'm very much in anticipation of another Horus Heresy box set next year containing the standard legion specific 2 characters, the rumoured new jet bikes x3, plastic javelin attack speeder x1, x30 MK6 armour marines possibly the box would/could be based on Alpha Legion vs Raven Guard?
I'm really hoping on something along these lines, will be perfect to boost my alpha legion force..
What are people's thoughts?
J
I hope they dont do this, because by that point I will likely have the bulk of my Raven Guard done and be in no mood to redo or swap out the Mk IV for Mk VI.
Jamie24 wrote: Seeing this follow up box for the Horus Heresy and it becoming even more popular amongst players/ collectors. I'm very much in anticipation of another Horus Heresy box set next year containing the standard legion specific 2 characters, the rumoured new jet bikes x3, plastic javelin attack speeder x1, x30 MK6 armour marines possibly the box would/could be based on Alpha Legion vs Raven Guard?
I'm really hoping on something along these lines, will be perfect to boost my alpha legion force..
What are people's thoughts?
J
I hope they dont do this, because by that point I will likely have the bulk of my Raven Guard done and be in no mood to redo or swap out the Mk IV for Mk VI.
I would much rather the next game be from the midpoint in the conflict and include plastic MkVs.
Jamie24 wrote: Seeing this follow up box for the Horus Heresy and it becoming even more popular amongst players/ collectors. I'm very much in anticipation of another Horus Heresy box set next year containing the standard legion specific 2 characters, the rumoured new jet bikes x3, plastic javelin attack speeder x1, x30 MK6 armour marines possibly the box would/could be based on Alpha Legion vs Raven Guard?
I'm really hoping on something along these lines, will be perfect to boost my alpha legion force..
What are people's thoughts?
J
I hope they dont do this, because by that point I will likely have the bulk of my Raven Guard done and be in no mood to redo or swap out the Mk IV for Mk VI.
I would much rather the next game be from the midpoint in the conflict and include plastic MkVs.
Im with you there. If it was plastic Mk V, oooh boy, I'd be all over that. I know alot of people hate Mk V, but I love it.
Jamie24 wrote: Seeing this follow up box for the Horus Heresy and it becoming even more popular amongst players/ collectors. I'm very much in anticipation of another Horus Heresy box set next year containing the standard legion specific 2 characters, the rumoured new jet bikes x3, plastic javelin attack speeder x1, x30 MK6 armour marines possibly the box would/could be based on Alpha Legion vs Raven Guard?
I'm really hoping on something along these lines, will be perfect to boost my alpha legion force..
What are people's thoughts?
J
I hope they dont do this, because by that point I will likely have the bulk of my Raven Guard done and be in no mood to redo or swap out the Mk IV for Mk VI.
You should reason like this: I hope they do this, because by that point I will likely have the bulk of my Raven Guard done and be in mood for a new project like redo or swap out the Mk IV for Mk VI.
Yep, it would be good, if we got other mk in plastic inside a similar box, but if it won't harm other releases schedule (or existence).
Plastic heresy marines is good and all, but Xenos don't get enough attention!
I don't know which box to get first.. I like the contents of Prospero more, but I'm kinda paranoid about BaC evaporating.
Jamie24 wrote: Seeing this follow up box for the Horus Heresy and it becoming even more popular amongst players/ collectors. I'm very much in anticipation of another Horus Heresy box set next year containing the standard legion specific 2 characters, the rumoured new jet bikes x3, plastic javelin attack speeder x1, x30 MK6 armour marines possibly the box would/could be based on Alpha Legion vs Raven Guard?
I'm really hoping on something along these lines, will be perfect to boost my alpha legion force..
What are people's thoughts?
J
I hope they dont do this, because by that point I will likely have the bulk of my Raven Guard done and be in no mood to redo or swap out the Mk IV for Mk VI.
You should reason like this: I hope they do this, because by that point I will likely have the bulk of my Raven Guard done and be in mood for a new project like redo or swap out the Mk IV for Mk VI.
I should like bulk Mk VI yeah, but I work at such a slow rate that I doubt I will have the Army I'm gonna start with the Prospero boxes done by then, so reworking something that is done will be bothersome.
It seems to be a common misconception that certain legions were limited to particular armour marks. There's nothing wrong with going for a theme or preferring one mark over the other. But you really shouldn't feel like you have to use a specific mark because of your legion choice.
Zywus wrote: Why would you need to redo existing marines just because MK VI would be released?
It's not like every Ravenguard marine wore MK VI anyway. Probably not even the majority until perhaps after Istvaan.
Mostly because I could change the Mk IV into yet another force while making the Mk VI into the Raven Guard. 3 Armies rather than 1 big one.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GoatboyBeta wrote: It seems to be a common misconception that certain legions were limited to particular armour marks. There's nothing wrong with going for a theme or preferring one mark over the other. But you really shouldn't feel like you have to use a specific mark because of your legion choice.
Of that I am aware, but like I mentioned I think I'd rather have 3 forces than 1 large, I have no issue with mixed armor.
GoatboyBeta wrote: It seems to be a common misconception that certain legions were limited to particular armour marks. There's nothing wrong with going for a theme or preferring one mark over the other. But you really shouldn't feel like you have to use a specific mark because of your legion choice.
Obviously you can use whichever figures you like and make it work, but for me who's mostly interested in the fluff and hobby side, I actually wish the source material was more detailed about who had which Marks of armor when so that I could model a really specific 'accurate' force or two. I'm used to building WWII tank models, where I was adding or removing bolt heads from the fender or a tank based on the historical pictures I was using for reference. Basically, I'm a dork so I want the source material to be detailed enough to explain that kind of minutiae. Like I said before, I'm probably going to trade some sprues between my Prospero and Calth sets, because I think the 1k Sons on Prospero will look better and make more sense with MkIV armor with some FW details, and let the Wolves have the MkIIIs for their frontline assault.
GoatboyBeta wrote: It seems to be a common misconception that certain legions were limited to particular armour marks. There's nothing wrong with going for a theme or preferring one mark over the other. But you really shouldn't feel like you have to use a specific mark because of your legion choice.
This.
It bothers me quite a bit to see that misconception. It's a form of flanderization in a way. Not as bad as in 40K with it's special-snowflake lists (apparently every single White Scar marine is welded onto a bike or land speeder even though over half of the chapter consist of tactical marines).
If anything, it would be somewhat notable for a marine force of some size around the time of the heresy to be totally uniformly armoured. Unless it's something like a newly raised company all equipped at the same time from the same shipment.
Obviously you can use whichever figures you like and make it work, but for me who's mostly interested in the fluff and hobby side, I actually wish the source material was more detailed about who had which Marks of armor when so that I could model a really specific 'accurate' force or two. I'm used to building WWII tank models, where I was adding or removing bolt heads from the fender or a tank based on the historical pictures I was using for reference. Basically, I'm a dork so I want the source material to be detailed enough to explain that kind of minutiae. Like I said before, I'm probably going to trade some sprues between my Prospero and Calth sets, because I think the 1k Sons on Prospero will look better and make more sense with MkIV armor with some FW details, and let the Wolves have the MkIIIs for their frontline assault.
That's the thing with 40k. It's all been deliberately the opposite. Since it's entirely fictional, even when they fill in the details for specific forces in specific periods, they have left gaps for players to use their own creativity and create their own narrative for their forces. The amount of detail being filled in currently by the big HH books and the novels is about as far as it's going to go - and they will always retcon even those to make new models fit into their timelines.
I so badly want that ahriman in my emperors children! too bad that A: he has the thousand sons shoulder pad and B: emperors children didn't like psykers
NivlacSupreme wrote: I so badly want that ahriman in my emperors children! too bad that A: he has the thousand sons shoulder pad and B: emperors children didn't like psykers
With a hobby knife, a little green stuff to fill in detail, and a head swap, I think he'll make a very solid librarian for any legion. The SW character looks far less salvageable.
NivlacSupreme wrote: I so badly want that ahriman in my emperors children! too bad that A: he has the thousand sons shoulder pad and B: emperors children didn't like psykers
With a hobby knife, a little green stuff to fill in detail, and a head swap, I think he'll make a very solid librarian for any legion. The SW character looks far less salvageable.
Separate head, arms, shoulderpads, backpack... This model will be easy as pie to swap stuff in or out of.
NivlacSupreme wrote: I so badly want that ahriman in my emperors children! too bad that A: he has the thousand sons shoulder pad and B: emperors children didn't like psykers
With a hobby knife, a little green stuff to fill in detail, and a head swap, I think he'll make a very solid librarian for any legion. The SW character looks far less salvageable.
Separate head, arms, shoulderpads, backpack... This model will be easy as pie to swap stuff in or out of.
It'll be great for swapping out stuff for another SW character, but it is fairly worthless for other legions. Ahriman is a little harder to work with since his shoulder pauldrons are molded on.
The Space Wolf or Ahriman? Either one could be done fairly easily, but the Space Wolf would be the easier to explain. I like collecting character miniatures, so I will probably keep the Space Wolf the way he is and paint him up.
Separate head, arms, shoulderpads, backpack... This model will be easy as pie to swap stuff in or out of.
It'll be great for swapping out stuff for another SW character, but it is fairly worthless for other legions. Ahriman is a little harder to work with since his shoulder pauldrons are molded on.
You just need to think creativity, my friend. Khorne Berserker parts, possibly WE, possibly Iron Warrior. Of course it helps if you collect several armies. HBMC's Deathwatch idea is a good one as well.
The Space Wolf or Ahriman? Either one could be done fairly easily, but the Space Wolf would be the easier to explain. I like collecting character miniatures, so I will probably keep the Space Wolf the way he is and paint him up.
The Wolf. Ahriman gets to be Ahriman. The mini's too cool to change it.
It's amazing how good Space Wolves can look when they're clean. You can see an army of grey warriors, each an exceptional fighter, as being very intimidating - the Emperor's attack dog, ready to do anything to please their master.
Meanwhile, in regular GW Land we get Wolfy McWolfawolf, the Wolf of Castle Peltclaw, etc. etc.
Power Elephant wrote: Does this mean that TS and SW get their 30k rules? TS are my favorite legion.
Well, Forgeworld is releasing the Russ model, it only seems fair that he would get rules to accompany him and his legion. I wouldn't put money on it, but it will probably happen soon. It is sort of funny, Rogal Dorn has rules but no model, Russ has a model but no rules.
Man, those cleaned up Space Wolves are making it a little hard to commit to what Legion I am going to make. I still think I will go with Imperial Fists, but every once and a while I think I want to make some Wolves instead. I could add on a few wolfy details, but not a lot.
NivlacSupreme wrote: Anybody know what the max unit size for custodes will be? I'm planning on having 20 and I kind of want to use them as a honor guard for my primarch
We know next to nothing about the Custodes or Sisters of Silence beyond the dubious stuff from 4chan.
NivlacSupreme wrote:Anybody know what the max unit size for custodes will be? I'm planning on having 20 and I kind of want to use them as a honor guard for my primarch
Why would a Primarch have Costodes for honour guard? Or you mean just the minis will be honour guard but part of the Legion?
NivlacSupreme wrote:Anybody know what the max unit size for custodes will be? I'm planning on having 20 and I kind of want to use them as a honor guard for my primarch
Why would a Primarch have Costodes for honour guard? Or you mean just the minis will be honour guard but part of the Legion?
Truth be told, it's your army, your fluff. I'm planning to make Iron Warriors (kinda hard to decide ) out of those MK IIIs, but I'll use 40k Space Marines - Iron Hands rules for them. I don't like my marines heretical
NivlacSupreme wrote:Anybody know what the max unit size for custodes will be? I'm planning on having 20 and I kind of want to use them as a honor guard for my primarch
Why would a Primarch have Costodes for honour guard? Or you mean just the minis will be honour guard but part of the Legion?
Truth be told, it's your army, your fluff. I'm planning to make Iron Warriors (kinda hard to decide ) out of those MK IIIs, but I'll use 40k Space Marines - Iron Hands rules for them. I don't like my marines heretical
Yes I know that. I fully believe in My minis, My time, My money I can do what ever I want. I thought fluff wise it can't be done and I am asking just in case I was wrong in that regard. If you can't do it fluff wise, I would say go ahead and do it anyways. Rule of cool and all.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's amazing how good Space Wolves can look when they're clean. You can see an army of grey warriors, each an exceptional fighter, as being very intimidating - the Emperor's attack dog, ready to do anything to please their master.
Meanwhile, in regular GW Land we get Wolfy McWolfawolf, the Wolf of Castle Peltclaw, etc. etc.
I think my ultimate idea of Space Wolf models is mostly clean but with some engraved nordic style knotwork in places and maybe some *small* details like a wolf tooth necklace or some models have a wolf fur cape or loincloth.
The 40k ones are just too busy and when you have too much detail nothing at all stands out, it just looks like a mess.
GoatboyBeta wrote: It seems to be a common misconception that certain legions were limited to particular armour marks. There's nothing wrong with going for a theme or preferring one mark over the other. But you really shouldn't feel like you have to use a specific mark because of your legion choice.
This.
It bothers me quite a bit to see that misconception. It's a form of flanderization in a way. Not as bad as in 40K with it's special-snowflake lists (apparently every single White Scar marine is welded onto a bike or land speeder even though over half of the chapter consist of tactical marines).
If anything, it would be somewhat notable for a marine force of some size around the time of the heresy to be totally uniformly armoured. Unless it's something like a newly raised company all equipped at the same time from the same shipment.
What I think it really boils down to is that Marks of armor are one of the distinguishing characteristics from army to army. That makes it a thematic device to define your army and so long as you're aware of that and use it purposefully it should only matter to you.
When it comes to different marks of armor its mostly a case of preference of the Legion, the timing within the Heresy, and the fluff behind your force. Some Legion did have preferred patterns of armor that were in disproportionate use and only adopted a greater mix as the heresy progressed. Greater uniformity is a distinctive quality of this era though how far you take that is upto you. In general as long as individual squads are distinctly the same pattern of armor I think it's still setting appropriate... though even that convention is flexible with the likes of shattered legions, Istavaan survivors, and black shields.
Let's use the Raven Guard as an example... by the current point of the Heresy, there are the survivors of Istavaan, there were the homeworld guarding marines, there were the Terran marines who survived their suicide mission and decided to do their own thing, there were the neophytes on their homeworld that end up being quickly elevated to marines to re bolster the ravenguard ranks, and there are the Raptors rapid grown from genetech given to Corax by the emperor... when you think about it each one of these groups would likely have a different mix, balance, and composition armor patterns and you can narrate who they are with it. The Istavaan survivors could have armor that mixed from scavenged pieces if it's during or shortly after that or if it's even later a mix of MkIV and MkV to show that they've been requipped. Meanwhile those older Terrain Raven Guard would almost exclusively be using the older patterns of armor. And so on.
Azazelx wrote: Just blame second edition. Or late RT, actually.
Isn't that around the time when Space Wolves were humanitarians who cared about the little guys and fought with tactics and sensible equipment? As opposed to the Vlka Fenryka, illiterate frat boys who hate the sniveling weaklings who can't fend for themselves, while screaming into into battle like berserker furries with dementia?
Yes I know that. I fully believe in My minis, My time, My money I can do what ever I want. I thought fluff wise it can't be done and I am asking just in case I was wrong in that regard. If you can't do it fluff wise, I would say go ahead and do it anyways. Rule of cool and all.
You forgot your fluff. It's your to do what you want. Ergo couple special characters have bit the dust in my groups universe.
Not hard to contrive a reason to have Custodes on the battlefield, and once they're there, where better for them to be than fighting alongside a primarch? Seems fine really.
I've found myself with more money at this point in the month than I'd normally have (pimpin' ain't easy) so I might have to take the plunge on this. I'll be saving it for the wife/kids to "give me for christmas", though, if I do.
In general as long as individual squads are distinctly the same pattern of armor I think it's still setting appropriate... though even that convention is flexible with the likes of shattered legions, Istavaan survivors, and black shields.
Where on earth did you get this idea? Why would a squad ever be equipped the same, unless it was just recently raised and every member was brand new, or everyone in it happened to be re-equipped at the same time and no one had suffered any battle damage since?
I would say based on simple logic that the norm would be for every unit down to the squad level to have a mix of armor styles. All it takes to end up with a mix is a few more experienced marines who retained older marks, or marines who suffered battle damage and had field repairs done with a mix of available armor that fit. I'd say that would be incredibly common in any situation. A whole squad with identical armor would be the exception, unless there was a reason to go out of your way to use a certain mark (say Mk III for breachers) and that would require additional effort on the part of the armorers.
Look at any picture of any military unit from any point in history, and where multiple patterns of an item are available, you are likely to see a mix within that group. That goes for fresh units, veterans, and anything in between. It's a logistics issue and it wouldn't get any better being light years from a forge world.
JohnnyHell wrote: If the next game was Emperor, Sanguinius and Horus I'd buy it, even if the gameplay was just a straight copy of the White Dwarf Horus vs Emprah on the battle barge game. Especially as me and my brother played that more times than any other GW game - it was amazing fun!
That's what they need to do with their next boxed set - say, set aboard Horus's ship above Terra, with the Emperor and his favored sons against Horus and the traitor primarchs (Ala Assassination Force). So, one of each primarch, Emperor and Horus and 10-15 regular marines?
Make the ship tiles compatible with Space Hulk (but Chaosfied) and include rules for the models in the other boxed sets (but not the minis) and I'll bet everyone will lose their mind trying to get a copy ("You can use Calth, Prospero AND Deathwatch figures? Reserve my copy now!!!).
In general as long as individual squads are distinctly the same pattern of armor I think it's still setting appropriate... though even that convention is flexible with the likes of shattered legions, Istavaan survivors, and black shields.
Where on earth did you get this idea? Why would a squad ever be equipped the same, unless it was just recently raised and every member was brand new, or everyone in it happened to be re-equipped at the same time and no one had suffered any battle damage since?
I would say based on simple logic that the norm would be for every unit down to the squad level to have a mix of armor styles. All it takes to end up with a mix is a few more experienced marines who retained older marks, or marines who suffered battle damage and had field repairs done with a mix of available armor that fit. I'd say that would be incredibly common in any situation. A whole squad with identical armor would be the exception, unless there was a reason to go out of your way to use a certain mark (say Mk III for breachers) and that would require additional effort on the part of the armorers.
Look at any picture of any military unit from any point in history, and where multiple patterns of an item are available, you are likely to see a mix within that group. That goes for fresh units, veterans, and anything in between. It's a logistics issue and it wouldn't get any better being light years from a forge world.
Although it should be said we're talking about a wargame with a strong visual component, so that squads containing too many marks of armors in the same unit will lack cohesiveness and visual appeal. It's good to have some level of consistency and a plan.
Personally I use Mk.4 for my basic WE, but Mk.2 on my sergeants to indicate that my company has a lot of newer marines being led by grizzled veterans.
JohnnyHell wrote: If the next game was Emperor, Sanguinius and Horus I'd buy it, even if the gameplay was just a straight copy of the White Dwarf Horus vs Emprah on the battle barge game. Especially as me and my brother played that more times than any other GW game - it was amazing fun!
That's what they need to do with their next boxed set - say, set aboard Horus's ship above Terra, with the Emperor and his favored sons against Horus and the traitor primarchs (Ala Assassination Force). So, one of each primarch, Emperor and Horus and 10-15 regular marines?
Make the ship tiles compatible with Space Hulk (but Chaosfied) and include rules for the models in the other boxed sets (but not the minis) and I'll bet everyone will lose their mind trying to get a copy ("You can use Calth, Prospero AND Deathwatch figures? Reserve my copy now!!!).
Horus, Sanguinius, Emprah, lots of daemons, handful of Sons of Horus veterans, handful of Blood Angels veterans, handful of Custodes. Hnnnnng
Automatically Appended Next Post: The armor marks thing I think is basically a matter of taste, by the way. There are plenty of in-universe justifications for doing monomark squads and for doing mixed squads. You do you.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's amazing how good Space Wolves can look when they're clean. You can see an army of grey warriors, each an exceptional fighter, as being very intimidating - the Emperor's attack dog, ready to do anything to please their master.
Meanwhile, in regular GW Land we get Wolfy McWolfawolf, the Wolf of Castle Peltclaw, etc. etc.
I agree too. I like the occasional runes or wolf pelt cloak, but the viking/wolf theme of the Space Wolves is so much more effective and beautiful when it is used with restraint.
In general as long as individual squads are distinctly the same pattern of armor I think it's still setting appropriate... though even that convention is flexible with the likes of shattered legions, Istavaan survivors, and black shields.
Where on earth did you get this idea? Why would a squad ever be equipped the same, unless it was just recently raised and every member was brand new, or everyone in it happened to be re-equipped at the same time and no one had suffered any battle damage since?
I would say based on simple logic that the norm would be for every unit down to the squad level to have a mix of armor styles. All it takes to end up with a mix is a few more experienced marines who retained older marks, or marines who suffered battle damage and had field repairs done with a mix of available armor that fit. I'd say that would be incredibly common in any situation. A whole squad with identical armor would be the exception, unless there was a reason to go out of your way to use a certain mark (say Mk III for breachers) and that would require additional effort on the part of the armorers.
Look at any picture of any military unit from any point in history, and where multiple patterns of an item are available, you are likely to see a mix within that group. That goes for fresh units, veterans, and anything in between. It's a logistics issue and it wouldn't get any better being light years from a forge world.
It really depends on whether you are doing an early-Heresy or late-Heresy style force. Some Legions preferred certain armour marks over others. This, combined with logistics not being an issue before the outbreak of the Heresy, led to legions almost entirely equipped with a single mark. The Iron Hands for example used MkIII almost exclusively, because MkII was not very well suited for their style of warfare and MkIV was not available in significant numbers because Horus and Kelbor Hal redirected most of that to the traitor legions. This also goes for a lot of other Legions. An early-Heresy force should be much more uniform than a late-Heresy force. And even by the late Heresy uniformly equipped squads would be very common. Forgeworlds have massive production outputs. If a legion gets a new supply of power armour, it is not going to be just a few suits, it is going to be hundreds or thousands at least. More than enough to outfit entire new squads with the same equipment. Of course the exception here would be the shattered legions and groups detached from the main legion that may not be able to get the necessary supplies.
Whether you want uniform or mixed squads, it does not matter. There is plenty of justification and examples in the fluff for either.
Azazelx wrote: Just blame second edition. Or late RT, actually.
Isn't that around the time when Space Wolves were humanitarians who cared about the little guys and fought with tactics and sensible equipment? As opposed to the Vlka Fenryka, illiterate frat boys who hate the sniveling weaklings who can't fend for themselves, while screaming into into battle like berserker furries with dementia?
Somewhat, yes. Early-RT-era none of the original chapters were really fleshed out or were much more than a colour scheme and a logo. 40k's Space Wolves are still humanitarians that care about the little guys as far as I can tell. When if their smallest piece of equipment now has Nordic runes etched into it with a wolf skull bolted on. Russ' original guys were a bunch of Richards and somehow that's evolved into the Wolves becoming the "nice" chapter over the last 10k.
Azazelx wrote: Just blame second edition. Or late RT, actually.
Isn't that around the time when Space Wolves were humanitarians who cared about the little guys and fought with tactics and sensible equipment? As opposed to the Vlka Fenryka, illiterate frat boys who hate the sniveling weaklings who can't fend for themselves, while screaming into into battle like berserker furries with dementia?
I don't recall a lot about the space wolves being huge humanitarians around 2nd ed. The first thing I remember hearing regarding that, was that Logan Grimnar was pissed that the Grey knights kept killing entire populations where there had been a chaos incursion. I don't remember them being any more or less kind than various other chapters.
The figures released around the end of 1st ed, and the codex in 2nd ed had 'some' viking stuff. there was a few with helmets off and some wild(ish) hair styles. The Dark/Blood angels all had stuff that characterized them at this time as well, so I didn't think the Space wolves were all that different.
The funny thing is that when I was in high school/college and I played 40k, I loved SW, but when I came back to the game in my late 20's, they didn't really appeal to me as much. Maybe it was their new styling as the 'wild vikings', but, I lost my interest in them. I stopped collecting them after the 5th ed codex, and focused more on CSM. After that the 'Santa Claws' era hit, and I didn't really dig them anymore.
Now in my late 30's early 40's, I'm all about the salamanders. I like their cool armor and obsession with heat based weaponry and hammers.
These new playsets that GW has been making are really cool. I'm blown away how willing they've become to delve into their own lore and produce stuff for 40k based on it. I stopped playing 40k for years, but when things like adeptus mechanicus, knights, and harliquin codexs started to become a reality, I started to pay more attention. I always said, If they do a genestealer cult codex, I'M BACK IN!
Azazelx wrote: Just blame second edition. Or late RT, actually.
Isn't that around the time when Space Wolves were humanitarians who cared about the little guys and fought with tactics and sensible equipment? As opposed to the Vlka Fenryka, illiterate frat boys who hate the sniveling weaklings who can't fend for themselves, while screaming into into battle like berserker furries with dementia?
Somewhat, yes. Early-RT-era none of the original chapters were really fleshed out or were much more than a colour scheme and a logo. 40k's Space Wolves are still humanitarians that care about the little guys as far as I can tell. When if their smallest piece of equipment now has Nordic runes etched into it with a wolf skull bolted on. Russ' original guys were a bunch of Richards and somehow that's evolved into the Wolves becoming the "nice" chapter over the last 10k.
It is though oddly appropriate to represent the slow but inevitable decline of the whole imperium including the space wolves back towards superstition and ignorance during the subsequent 10,000 years. (and GW in the subsequent past 10 years until recently)
Hmmm, pre-orders in two days and not really a lot of good leaks. I know there was a completed Custodes with a comparison to a Tactical Marine on Atia's blog, but no completed Sister with a size comparison. I really hope they didn't mess up and make the Sisters the size of Marines. They are still normal humans, not 7 ft tall monstrosities.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Hmmm, pre-orders in two days and not really a lot of good leaks. I know there was a completed Custodes with a comparison to a Tactical Marine on Atia's blog, but no completed Sister with a size comparison. I really hope they didn't mess up and make the Sisters the size of Marines. They are still normal humans, not 7 ft tall monstrosities.
Normal humans aka guardsmen are almost the size of 7ft tall monstrosities so I think the chances of them somehow more true scales are pretty slim.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Hmmm, pre-orders in two days and not really a lot of good leaks. I know there was a completed Custodes with a comparison to a Tactical Marine on Atia's blog, but no completed Sister with a size comparison. I really hope they didn't mess up and make the Sisters the size of Marines. They are still normal humans, not 7 ft tall monstrosities.
Normal humans aka guardsmen are almost the size of 7ft tall monstrosities so I think the chances of them somehow more true scales are pretty slim.
well, at least there was some effort with the Deathwatch to make the Marines taller than usual.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Scale creep is one of the things I really detest about 40k. If Deathwatch are getting bigger, Custodes bigger yet again... No thanks.
Custodes are supposed to be bigger, the issue is not "scale creep", it's that the scale changed, long ago, for everything except Space Marines because GW needed to keep newer SM kits compatible with the previous couple of generations in each case.
Almost every human model GW have released for over a decade has been 29-31mm to the eyes, and the only reason SM aren't 37-40mm to the eyes is commercial. People can keep pretending the issue with 40K is that every model exceptSM are out of scale because the current plastics are about the right size compared to ancient metal Guardsmen if they like, but it's firmly unconvincing.
Cephalobeard wrote: With white dwarf going to monthly our leaks in general got slowed down real hard.
We'll see, Warhammer TV can jump on rumors and leaks right away... and they not only confirm but go a step further But some pics like the Custodians seem to come from folks who are supposed to wait to talk about/review this stuff until pre-release day. Though I'll count release day in New Zealand as good and can't wait to chime in.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Scale creep is one of the things I really detest about 40k. If Deathwatch are getting bigger, Custodes bigger yet again... No thanks.
For the love of god... the Deathwatch legs are just in a different stance. That's the only thing that makes them "bigger".
The Custodes are meant to be bigger and stronger than your usual Astartes. They're the Emperor's elite guard.
i know there is certainly a Bling creep but that i dont mind as much.
There were some comparison pictures a while back. They are noticeably taller, but that is due to a combination of factors. 1. Their stance is less crouched than normal marine kits. That gives them the appearance of being taller than a regular marine. 2. They are slightly taller at individual lengths. Their legs are longer, but that could be due to Mk VIII.
Incorrect, I own 30 deathwatch marines. They are on a shelf next ro my recently built dark angels. The deathwatch mark 8 suits are noticeable larger. If you put the walking legs next to any prior marine legs, they are easily at least 1/16" bigger They stand much taller than any prior marine made 1/16" to 1/8" taller. They also look to be a correct scale against imperial guard, genestealer cult models, etc.
The only issue I saw was the deathwatch overkill kill team Cassius are tiny compared to the new deathwatch units. I also had a hard time mixing the mark 8 armor pieces with other marine bits as you get marines with abnormally large torsos or marines that are all legs... (ok that was a bit of an exaggeration, but it is noticable).
There is an unboxing video on Youtube. They obviously haven't read the rules ("same as BaC") but it gives a good look into the booklets and some of the other content we haven't seen in detail before
casvalremdeikun wrote: Hmmm, pre-orders in two days and not really a lot of good leaks. I know there was a completed Custodes with a comparison to a Tactical Marine on Atia's blog, but no completed Sister with a size comparison. I really hope they didn't mess up and make the Sisters the size of Marines. They are still normal humans, not 7 ft tall monstrosities.
By the same token, they're a small but elite, handpicked force. They could easily all be well over 6' with lifts in their boots that increase their height.
These "guardsmen" from different "regiments" all come from the same "homeworld" and have a lot of variation in height.
And really bloody big guys are relatively rare, but they're out there.
(also, Shaq, Yao Ming, Khali, Paul Wight, etc - we know the guys because really large guys can become famous sportspeople much more easily than nameless really large women.
Scale Creep - The sizes are all the same. GW doesn't do scale well and isn't going to change anytime soon. Fully expect sisters to be the same size as. If you look at the latest vid posted 3 days ago on Warhammer TV, they are same height as marines. Deathwatch isn't bigger.
I did lol on the Greigor prospero burns vid though. "Russ with a heavy heart released the wolfs" He was actually more then willing to murder thousand sons, soooo no heavy heart there.
The "poster" for thousand sons, while cool, is kinda off. It wasn't their thirst for knowledge that damned them, Magnus sold them off to Tzeentch long time ago.
So totally getting this! Mk3 is my favorite of the armor. I've got 10 Marines for my Chapter in Mk3 from FW right now and wished I could get more but FW purchases are a special event deal for me. So happy I can get some plastic Mk3 and get 30 more marines in it.
And yes, I am trying to build a full Chapter, for display purposes, so 1000 Marines plus the Company and Chapter Commands, and the Librarians, and the Chaplins, and special Marines that aren't counted in the 1000 and are part of the Reclusiam. Yeah, I'm pretty nuts!
str00dles1 wrote: Scale Creep - The sizes are all the same. GW doesn't do scale well and isn't going to change anytime soon. Fully expect sisters to be the same size as. If you look at the latest vid posted 3 days ago on Warhammer TV, they are same height as marines. Deathwatch isn't bigger.
I did lol on the Greigor prospero burns vid though. "Russ with a heavy heart released the wolfs" He was actually more then willing to murder thousand sons, soooo no heavy heart there.
The "poster" for thousand sons, while cool, is kinda off. It wasn't their thirst for knowledge that damned them, Magnus sold them off to Tzeentch long time ago.
He was willing to do it when it needed to be done (in his mind at least) but he didn't necessarily want to do it - in Prospero Burns he pleads with Magnus to make it bloodless.
Guess I'll have to pick up a box. I have little interest in the SoS and less in the Custodes, but I suspect those might be highly sought after on the 2nd hand market so it shouldn't be too hard to get a fair chunk of the investment back.
JohnHwangDD wrote: That's a chicken & egg defense there. Custodes and esp. Deathwatch don't need to be any bigger. Nor anything else. But GW keeps doing it.
That said, my non-SM (IG, Eldars, Inquisition) are all metal, precisely because they scale well with the SM plastics.
Custodes actually NEED to be bigger. They have been described as bigger very long. If miniatures were same size it would be violating fluff.
Now of course you can arque fluff is wrong but that fluff was created loooooong before this release was even dreamed up by somebody.
I am curious on which part of the 30K lore they will visit next.
Betrayal at Calth and now The Burning of Prospero.
Next the outcast dead? World eaters? Alpha legion (40 space marines and you have to find who the Alpha legion infiltrator is, in the end we are Alpharius! )
Or because they brought back Genestealer cult the next will be slann or Fimir? Ambul madness? )
BrookM wrote: The battle of Phall would be neat. An upgrade sprue for Breachers would be very, very hot.
Man, if they do that and I wasted my money on the SW v. TS boxed set, I will be quite unhappy with myself. I am going to be using Shapeways to get shields for all of my Mk III Marines (YAY Breachers!). I will probably pay a buttload more than I would if they do box with a Breacher Upgrade Sprue.
Phall definitely would have been a cool boxed set. Perhaps have a Warsmith character, but who knows what they would put in for a Fists character.
The more I think about it, I am keeping the Sisters of Silence. I need to come up with a good color scheme for them. I am thinking a lighter gold or silver and bright blue and white.
For the love of god... the Deathwatch legs are just in a different stance. That's the only thing that makes them "bigger".
Not true. Deathwatch legs are definitely larger than previous marine legs. They're longer and thicker, even the feet are larger.
This is why I'm really interested seeing whether the marines in this new set are similarly upscaled. But as people have pointed out, they probably are not, in order to match the Forgeworld products.
For someone who's not up on all the fluff, would Sons of Medusa have been around/wearing Mark III? I really like that armor but didn't know that's what it was called (saw it on the cover(s) of a couple of HH books I actually have read.
privateer4hire wrote: For someone who's not up on all the fluff, would Sons of Medusa have been around/wearing Mark III? I really like that armor but didn't know that's what it was called (saw it on the cover(s) of a couple of HH books I actually have read.
Sons of Medusa descended from the Iron Hands, so yea that sounds like a great idea.
For the love of god... the Deathwatch legs are just in a different stance. That's the only thing that makes them "bigger".
Not true. Deathwatch legs are definitely larger than previous marine legs. They're longer and thicker, even the feet are larger.
This is why I'm really interested seeing whether the marines in this new set are similarly upscaled. But as people have pointed out, they probably are not, in order to match the Forgeworld products.
I own both the latest Blood Angel Kits and the Deathwatch kits. They are the same length of in the legs. The reason why people think the deathwatch are taller is because a fully assembled Deathwatch marine a.) Is almost standing straight up and b.) Creates an optical illusion of height with the mk VIII torsos, which are the exact same length as the normal kits (not accounting the collar."
privateer4hire wrote: For someone who's not up on all the fluff, would Sons of Medusa have been around/wearing Mark III? I really like that armor but didn't know that's what it was called (saw it on the cover(s) of a couple of HH books I actually have read.
Sons of Medusa descended from the Iron Hands, so yea that sounds like a great idea.
For the love of god... the Deathwatch legs are just in a different stance. That's the only thing that makes them "bigger".
Not true. Deathwatch legs are definitely larger than previous marine legs. They're longer and thicker, even the feet are larger.
This is why I'm really interested seeing whether the marines in this new set are similarly upscaled. But as people have pointed out, they probably are not, in order to match the Forgeworld products.
I own both the latest Blood Angel Kits and the Deathwatch kits. They are the same length of in the legs. The reason why people think the deathwatch are taller is because a fully assembled Deathwatch marine a.) Is almost standing straight up and b.) Creates an optical illusion of height with the mk VIII torsos, which are the exact same length as the normal kits (not accounting the collar."
Just not true. Deathwatch legs are indeed thicker and longer than regular Marine legs, apart from the pose. Also the heads sits slightly higher on the Mk8 torsos.
I own both the latest Blood Angel Kits and the Deathwatch kits. They are the same length of in the legs. The reason why people think the deathwatch are taller is because a fully assembled Deathwatch marine a.) Is almost standing straight up and b.) Creates an optical illusion of height with the mk VIII torsos, which are the exact same length as the normal kits (not accounting the collar."
Then I kindly recommend visiting an ophthalmologist. You are wrong. I too have assembled both kits (and most other marine kits) and I in fact have the parts right in front of me. DW legs are bigger. It is not the pose. You can measure yourself if you don't believe me. It is most noticeable at the foot and the thigh, both being about a millimetre longer than in older kits. Other parts are slightly bigger too, but that's harder to accurately measure.
I own both the latest Blood Angel Kits and the Deathwatch kits. They are the same length of in the legs. The reason why people think the deathwatch are taller is because a fully assembled Deathwatch marine a.) Is almost standing straight up and b.) Creates an optical illusion of height with the mk VIII torsos, which are the exact same length as the normal kits (not accounting the collar."
Then I kindly recommend visiting an ophthalmologist. You are wrong. I too have assembled both kits (and most other marine kits) and I in fact have the parts right in front of me. DW legs are bigger. It is not the pose. You can measure yourself if you don't believe me. It is most noticeable at the foot and the thigh, both being about a millimetre longer than in older kits. Other parts are slightly bigger too, but that's harder to accurately measure.
I have measured them and found them the same. Might I suggest acquiring a new reality, as yours is obviously flawed? It has occured to me the conversation is now off track. I apologize - As for the Mk III, any ideas on converting them into proper assault marines without Jump Packs.
I own both the latest Blood Angel Kits and the Deathwatch kits. They are the same length of in the legs. The reason why people think the deathwatch are taller is because a fully assembled Deathwatch marine a.) Is almost standing straight up and b.) Creates an optical illusion of height with the mk VIII torsos, which are the exact same length as the normal kits (not accounting the collar."
Then I kindly recommend visiting an ophthalmologist. You are wrong. I too have assembled both kits (and most other marine kits) and I in fact have the parts right in front of me. DW legs are bigger. It is not the pose. You can measure yourself if you don't believe me. It is most noticeable at the foot and the thigh, both being about a millimetre longer than in older kits. Other parts are slightly bigger too, but that's harder to accurately measure.
I have measured them and found them the same. Might I suggest acquiring a new reality, as yours is obviously flawed? It has occured to me the conversation is now off track. I apologize - As for the Mk III, any ideas on converting them into proper assault marines without Jump Packs.
I'm sure I saw a load of bolt pistol and chainsword on a sprue in one of the leaked pics. You may not have to do much converting at all.
Neronoxx wrote: I have measured them and found them the same. Might I suggest acquiring a new reality, as yours is obviously flawed?
These were closest the same pose I could find. The lines on the right are the same length as they're on the legs. Are we now done?
Now, as I hope that we have to everyone's satisfaction established that the Deathwatch are indeed in a new larger scale than the previous kits, we can move on to discuss the relevant part which is whether the marines in this box are in the new or in the old scale.
Neronoxx wrote: I have measured them and found them the same. Might I suggest acquiring a new reality, as yours is obviously flawed?
These were closest the same pose I could find. The lines on the right are the same length as they're on the legs. Are we now done?
Now, as I hope that we have to everyone's satisfaction established that the Deathwatch are indeed in a new larger scale than the previous kits, we can move on to discuss the relevant part which is whether the marines in this box are in the new or in the old scale.
I am not disagreeing with you because I think the Mk VIII legs are definitely longer, but an anterior/posterior shot with measurements to go with your lateral shot would be a good idea. Like I said in a post a while back, the stance does influence everything as well.
Yeah, or Deathwatch. Some seemed as big as that guys shows, with different images on each side, and one in particular was filled with smaller "push-outs"? Is that the word, small pieces you "pop" out? with what seemed a space marine statue, among other smaller pieces of terrain.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Those legs are bent at basically the same angle. It's not like he's comparing standing to kneeling.
the hip abduction matters though. The comparison is only being made from one frame of reference. Again, I agree they are longer, but in order to get a complete idea of the actual change, anterior/posterior and lateral images are needed.
Anyway, I want more leaks! Still no good pictures of the full tactical squad!
It goes on preorder tomorrow. If betrayal at calth goes on last chance i'm going to freak
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just realized that ahrimans cake is only attached at the backpack! I hate capes and am now much more willing to put the work into converting him
I just realized that ahrimans cake is only attached at the backpack! I hate capes and am now much more willing to put the work into converting him
I'm not bothered by capes, myself, where they make for a certain dramatic look. But the ease of working with the Ahriman mini sans cape will make it easier to get a second librarian out of the mini, which is useful.
It's a Dakka thing. I forgot about it, happened to me last week. I waited a bit still double post, then did what you did and no longer double post. Next time you see a double post don't edit it. It will fix it's self in a few minutes. I think you might need to reset what you wanted.
Crimson wrote: Now, as I hope that we have to everyone's satisfaction established that the Deathwatch are indeed in a new larger scale than the previous kits, we can move on to discuss the relevant part which is whether the marines in this box are in the new or in the old scale.
I expect they'll be the same scale as the Calth ones. They're essentially copies of the resin sculpts just like the ones in Calth are. The real question is what they actually look like set beside the Sisters and Custodes models.
Sigh...another case of GW not understanding their own rules. I would love to see a Detachment though. I am hoping the White Dwarf article on them has one.
Definitely keeping the Sisters of Silence now. An army of frickin' Culexus Assassin-esque Psyker hunters would be fun as hell.
My setup for my Custodes will be two Guardian Spears, three Sword and board. I am not sure what I will do with my Sisters.
They might be but the SoS are nuts. For 5 points more than a squad of marines you get 5 WS4 BS4 I5 A2 models that are also Culexus assasins and swing AP2 at initiative S4. The lack if invul and only 3+ armor hurts but who cares with the huge benefits you're getting. For the same price as a culexus you can shut down half the board for psychic powers. If GW realizes they made them impossible to play.
No frag grenades for Custodes?
I suppose with 2+, 2W, EW they probably dont need it but a bit strange imo since they seem geared towards a dedicated CC unit.
(oh right Nid Stealers :( ).
It's too bad the Custodes aren't relentless. Makes the Spear a little less good. As good as the Custodes are, they are actually priced fairly reasonably. The Sisters are dirt cheap for what they do. The Sword version might be the way to go.
I have decided I am going to give my Sisters of Silence white armor, blue cloaks, and make them all redheads. Custodes will get purple cloaks and plumes.
NivlacSupreme wrote: I was thinking about taking 2 units of 10 custodes each. one with shields and swords for melee and one with guardian spears for range
An 1120 point pair of units? That's quite an investment, although the sword and board unit should be quite survivable.
ERJAK wrote: They might be but the SoS are nuts. For 5 points more than a squad of marines you get 5 WS4 BS4 I5 A2 models that are also Culexus assasins and swing AP2 at initiative S4. The lack if invul and only 3+ armor hurts but who cares with the huge benefits you're getting. For the same price as a culexus you can shut down half the board for psychic powers. If GW realizes they made them impossible to play.
They are T3, 1W, 3+ models. It’s not going to take a lot to erase them from the table. They are also footslogging, or bumming a transport off someone. Nasty in CC? Yup. But not without flaws and weak points.
NivlacSupreme wrote: I was thinking about taking 2 units of 10 custodes each. one with shields and swords for melee and one with guardian spears for range
An 1120 point pair of units? That's quite an investment, although the sword and board unit should be quite survivable.
If these suckers are usable in HH like that my army will finally be 3000+ points. Well I dont have an army but i'm getting this and calth from some friends for christmas. Maybe just grab 2 S+S units and use them to tarpit enemy commanders?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ratius wrote: I had always pictured Phil Kelly as like this mid 50s guy with a grey beard. Im like wtf?
IKR? He's just a pasty nervous looking guy. On the other hand GW is hiring their target market.
The Guardian spear seems to imply you can shoot it like a bolter and charge, but doesn't explicitly overrule the rapid fire rule. Has that been faqed for the deathwatch version?
Interestingly, there's a nice wee How To Paint: Burning of Prospero guide coming out... and it features some of the other legions too which is nice. Including Alpha Legion and Death Guard . Gotta say- this paint scheme for AL is A LOT better than the blue with green highlights!
angelofvengeance wrote: Interestingly, there's a nice wee How To Paint: Burning of Prospero guide coming out... and it features some of the other legions too which is nice. Including Alpha Legion and Death Guard . Gotta say- this paint scheme for AL is A LOT better than the blue with green highlights!
Prospero Termies are really bland. Was thinking about buying the box since I really like the custodes, Arihman and Gaigor, but wasn't sure since I'm not a fan of the sister, and don't really need 30 more tac marines. Thankfully the blandness of the termies made by decision easy. Will just buy the Custodes and mayber Gaigor off an Ebay seller.
streetsamurai wrote: Prospero Termies are really bland. Was thinking about buying the box since I really like the custodes, Arihman and Gaigor, but wasn't sure since I'm not a fan of the sister, and don't really need 30 more tac marines. Thankfully the blandness of the termies made by decision easy. Will just buy the Custodes and mayber Gaigor off an Ebay seller.
To me, it`s a plus, don`t like too much bling on Marines, or anything, really
ERJAK wrote: They might be but the SoS are nuts. For 5 points more than a squad of marines you get 5 WS4 BS4 I5 A2 models that are also Culexus assasins and swing AP2 at initiative S4. The lack if invul and only 3+ armor hurts but who cares with the huge benefits you're getting. For the same price as a culexus you can shut down half the board for psychic powers. If GW realizes they made them impossible to play.
They are T3, 1W, 3+ models. It’s not going to take a lot to erase them from the table. They are also footslogging, or bumming a transport off someone. Nasty in CC? Yup. But not without flaws and weak points.
even in close combat, they are not that scary unless they are facing termi-equivalent. A squad of ork boys of the same value would handle them easily
streetsamurai wrote: Prospero Termies are really bland. Was thinking about buying the box since I really like the custodes, Arihman and Gaigor, but wasn't sure since I'm not a fan of the sister, and don't really need 30 more tac marines. Thankfully the blandness of the termies made by decision easy. Will just buy the Custodes and mayber Gaigor off an Ebay seller.
To me, it`s a plus, don`t like too much bling on Marines, or anything, really
lol, yeah I guess if you're a minimalist when it comes to miniature, they look great. But I don't. I think that a busy mini like the custodes or gaigor is much cooler. Or as they say in english: different stroke for different folk.
angelofvengeance wrote: Interestingly, there's a nice wee How To Paint: Burning of Prospero guide coming out... and it features some of the other legions too which is nice. Including Alpha Legion and Death Guard . Gotta say- this paint scheme for AL is A LOT better than the blue with green highlights!
I wonder why GW don't put more pictures of the minis up - for example, they have one group shot of the Custodes which you can't really enlarge without going pixelly, but then they only give two 360 rotation shots of individual models - there isn't a decent close up of the sword chap. Similar for the Sisters.
Overall I love the box set - as others, I don't have much need for 30 more Marines but will be looking for bargains on eBay for Custodes, Sisters and Not-Bjorn.
ERJAK wrote: They might be but the SoS are nuts. For 5 points more than a squad of marines you get 5 WS4 BS4 I5 A2 models that are also Culexus assasins and swing AP2 at initiative S4. The lack if invul and only 3+ armor hurts but who cares with the huge benefits you're getting. For the same price as a culexus you can shut down half the board for psychic powers. If GW realizes they made them impossible to play.
They are T3, 1W, 3+ models. It’s not going to take a lot to erase them from the table. They are also footslogging, or bumming a transport off someone. Nasty in CC? Yup. But not without flaws and weak points.
You misunderstand, the fact that they have reasonable CC stats makes them nuts because the psychic shut off+peruls grenade is worth 75 points by itself. So they're relatively easy to kill in shooting and are fragile in close combat. That doesn't matter because most death stars have VERY minimal shooting and the they won't even be in CQC with a star until you're sure you can kill it. Plus you can take 2 squads for the same price as the culexusish and shut off a huge area. Oh and at 2 attacks base I5 S4 Ap 2 and 3+ armor equal points of ork boys lose half their unit and flees and gets swept.
ERJAK wrote: They might be but the SoS are nuts. For 5 points more than a squad of marines you get 5 WS4 BS4 I5 A2 models that are also Culexus assasins and swing AP2 at initiative S4. The lack if invul and only 3+ armor hurts but who cares with the huge benefits you're getting. For the same price as a culexus you can shut down half the board for psychic powers. If GW realizes they made them impossible to play.
They are T3, 1W, 3+ models. It’s not going to take a lot to erase them from the table. They are also footslogging, or bumming a transport off someone. Nasty in CC? Yup. But not without flaws and weak points.
You misunderstand, the fact that they have reasonable CC stats makes them nuts because the psychic shut off+peruls grenade is worth 75 points by itself. So they're relatively easy to kill in shooting and are fragile in close combat. That doesn't matter because most death stars have VERY minimal shooting and the they won't even be in CQC with a star until you're sure you can kill it. Plus you can take 2 squads for the same price as the culexusish and shut off a huge area. Oh and at 2 attacks base I5 S4 Ap 2 and 3+ armor equal points of ork boys lose half their unit and flees and gets swept.
lol, not even close. YOu need to do some stats before claiming something like that, cause it is simply not true. I did, and a unit of 12 boys will easily handle a unit of 5 sisters (considering both are not charging, cause if both charge, the sister would get even more of a trouncing because of furious charge)) in cc, and the boys are 3 points less expensive.
5 sisters do 10 attacks, need 4+ to hit (5 left) and 4+ to wounds (so an average of 2.5, we will round it up to 3 wounds)
12-3= 9 boys left, 3 attacks each make 27 attacks, 13,5 hit (round up to 14), 4+ to hit, so 7 wounds. Sisters would in average take a bit more than 2 wounds, but we roud it down
After, it is a disaster for the sister
3 sisters left, so 6 attacks, 3 hit, 1,5 wounds , so 2 dead orks
9-2= 7 orks, so 21 attacks, 10 hits (rounded down from 10, 5 to give the sisters the benefit of the doubt), which translate to 5 wounds, sisters would take 2 wounds.
last round
1 sister left, 2 attacks, 1 hit, 1 wound (rounded up, to give the sister a chance)
6 orks left, 18 attacks, 9 hit, 4 wounds (rounded down to give the sister a chance), a dead unit of sisters.
I have an excel matrix on my other computer which use mathematical expectation to calculate who would win in a cc between 2 units, I can run it if you want to, but it is obvious orks boys would win anyway. it's true that the orlks could run after the first round of combat, but it is a very slim one, and it is the only chance for the sisters to win this encounter. Anyway, no ork general worth his salt would have a unit of boys not being led by a nobz.
MrFlutterPie wrote: What if the SOS entry is a single data sheet that you can just drop into an army like assassins?
Aren't assassins a single elite choice that can just be added to an army?
Sorry if double post but to answer No. The assasins have their own detachment you can allie in.
Ah back to the drawing board. Seriously though how to we add them in? I wonder if we getting a small glimpse of what the new 8ed foc. might end up looking like.
SoS seem very much a rock/paper/scissor unit. They will take down well over their points in top end deathstars, but go down like 2 copper harlots to basic troops.
Seeing I’m not a big fan of deathstars, psychic or otherwise, I’m OK with this.
Nevelon wrote: SoS seem very much a rock/paper/scissor unit. They will take down well over their points in top end deathstars, but go down like 2 copper harlots to basic troops.
Seeing I’m not a big fan of deathstars, psychic or otherwise, I’m OK with this.
Agreed.
I like these kind of units. They have an utility against a certain type of ennemies, but will not dominate the battlefield against everyone. You will need tactics and good manouvering for them to be worth their points.
Super Space Marines based off the Emperor's own genetic code? Nah. They're just right.
not saying fluff-wise, but point wise.
For 50 points, they seem to be way too stong. A kitted out termi is worth more points than that, and a custode is a lot stronger.
They're not way too strong at all. Who cares what their stats are if they are too slow to do anything. With their basic loadout they have no invul save, and with stormshields they simply have terrible AP3 power swords. If they got to keep their spears AND have a stormshield then they would be strong (Doesn't matter if both items are two handed, just look at thunderhammers and relic blades)
NatWest online bank is down from 2am - 2:40am, really!?
Sat up to order and still bloody can't because of the bank haha.
May be worth buying the full box just for the custodes and sisters then selling the rest back again.
Should get them for less than the current £45 price for both.
The custodes seem a bit like assault terminators, where you need to decide between survivability and offense. But unlike the termis, the good AP2 hits are not the same guys as the defense. For the termis, you might just want some lightning claws to help cut your way out of tarpits. For the Custodes, I think of their options more like hidden power fists. A couple of guys up front tanking hits, and the cleavers behind them.
Also, welcome back wound allocation shenanigans. A squad where everyone is a character with 2W. Hello, Look out Sir!
Just finished watching the video. Kind of amused they got near the end and said something like "oh, and you get a bunch of cool miniatures, too".
The scenarios sound pretty cool esp. the teleporting travel one. I've really liked their board games from the past year plus and am hoping this one has rules that are just as engaging. I buy these for the board game and it was interesting to see them devote half an hour to focusing just on game play.
Outpost preorders up @71.25 (25% off) , gre eBay sellers now listing infantry blocks at 18.99 a set (10 marines, 5 sisters etc). I suspect 25% will be the norm for this weekend. Pretty bad that 3 from outpost is only £30 more than the equivalent of one at rrp from GW in New Zealand!
TwilightSparkles wrote: Outpost preorders up @71.25 (25% off) , gre eBay sellers now listing infantry blocks at 18.99 a set (10 marines, 5 sisters etc). I suspect 25% will be the norm for this weekend. Pretty bad that 3 from outpost is only £30 more than the equivalent of one at rrp from GW in New Zealand!
WOW! That's only $140 AUD delivered! I have pre-ordered mine from them already, cheers mate
ruralguard wrote: Anyone else noticed the dreadnought / walker painted in Custodian colours in the background of the photo on their rules page?
Good eye. That is a Contemptor in gold and red. They had dreads in the old art books. And Land Raiders and Jetbikes and Terminators among other things.
Some more info about the November WD from the GW webstore. It comes with rules for using Contemptor dreads in BoP
Contents
November’s White Dwarf is here, and with it a free download allowing you to add Grombrindal, the White Dwarf himself, to your games of Total War: Warhammer (with a handy 20% of the game itself if you haven’t got it yet). Inside, Prospero Burns! We’ve got the complete lowdown on the great new boxed game The Horus Heresy: Burning of Prospero, with a first look in Planet Warhammer, plus Designers’ Notes, Illuminations and some exclusive extra rules. Elsewhere we’ve got an ’Eavy Metal Masterclass on painting cloth, the Ultimate Guide to Commorragh and all your favourites like A Tale of Four Warlords, Golden Demon, the Battle Report and more!
In this packed issue, you’ll find:
Planet Warhammer – All the news
Contact – Our letters page
A Tale of Four Keyboards – Total War: Warhammer comes to White Dwarf
Golden Demon
A Tale of Four Warlords
Temporal Distort
Hall of Fame
A World in Flames – We take a look at the Burning of Prospero
The Ultimate Guide to… Commorragh
Army of the Month – Rik Turner’s Blood Ravens
The General’s Almanack – A brand-new series about gaming in the Age of Sigmar
Battle Report: The Border War
Armies on Parade
Illuminations: Prospero
Battleground: The Fortress of Kah’Rahkél
Rules for the Lord-Veritant in Warhammer Age of Sigmar, the Legio Custodes in Horus Heresy, and Contemptor Dreadnoughts in Burning of Prospero.
Sprues and Glue
Paint Splatter
’Eavy Metal Masterclass
Readers’ Models
In the Bunker
It looks like :( There are a lot of other painting/army projects articles though. Tabletop rules for new miniatures, a feature I was missing in the last two WDs, are back.
Unless I'm missing something, it just says that the faction is part of the Armies of the Imperium. It doesn't actually give them a formation or anything, so they're stuck with the normal CAD, which they can't really fill. So they're stuck in unbound.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Outpost preorders up @71.25 (25% off) , gre eBay sellers now listing infantry blocks at 18.99 a set (10 marines, 5 sisters etc). I suspect 25% will be the norm for this weekend. Pretty bad that 3 from outpost is only £30 more than the equivalent of one at rrp from GW in New Zealand!
TwilightSparkles wrote: Outpost preorders up @71.25 (25% off) , gre eBay sellers now listing infantry blocks at 18.99 a set (10 marines, 5 sisters etc). I suspect 25% will be the norm for this weekend. Pretty bad that 3 from outpost is only £30 more than the equivalent of one at rrp from GW in New Zealand!
TwilightSparkles wrote: Outpost preorders up @71.25 (25% off) , gre eBay sellers now listing infantry blocks at 18.99 a set (10 marines, 5 sisters etc). I suspect 25% will be the norm for this weekend. Pretty bad that 3 from outpost is only £30 more than the equivalent of one at rrp from GW in New Zealand!
Probably eBay or one of the bits sellers, to example the Troll Trader has them up for £18, and £2 odd P and P. Postage probably kills it for you in Australia though. (Or maybe not, looks like it is sub £3).
richstrach wrote: No Blanchitsu in the new issue? That's rapidly become my favourite part!
This is the best news I've had all night. I'm looking forward to the next issue because of this alone.
you don't like seeing a few of our own Dakka users having their work featured, with beautiful photography, in White Dwarf???
strange...
for most of us that have grown up painting GW miniatures, having our work featured in WD is a life-long dream...
seeing it come true is a beautiful thing, which is part of what makes Blanchitsu so cool...
chaos45 wrote: ya the custodians and sisters both seem underpointed compared to other type units point wise.
So yet more power creep for new releases as usual.
An AP 2 STR 4 wpn alone at initiative is normally 15+ pts lol.....and sisters get that + a ton of special rules.
Custodes for 50ppm far outshine any other unit at that ppm level.
People always make these claims as if the game is static and that there isn't a new edition right around the corner.
It is quite possible that their points costs reflect an eventual larger plan to recost many current models and make them cheaper as part of a general restructuring for 8th edition. Ultimately GW wants people to field (and thus buy) more modes, not less.
We already saw a reduction for say Helbrutes, etc.
Besides nothing is cheaper than all those free razorbacks...
These pdfs and the WD rules are just get-by rules. For Age of Darkness Custodes will get a full army list in the 30k Inferno book next year, so do Sisters who will have rules to ally them with other HH armies - so both are fully supported by Forgeworld.
We don't even have Cataphractii rules for anything but Codex SM in 40k and this is a similiar patchwork approach, a service for players who would like to use them in their tabletop games already.
Maybe when GW is going to offer them as individual kits for 30k/40k there could be a proper 40k Codex release.
But for now these are just some 'experimental rules' thrown in for the fun. Was anyone really expecting they would be proper fleshed-out factions as of today? Next year when they get some vehicles and more models from Forgeworld it will be their full release.
I dont believe they will be more than a small 'fluffy' 40k unit like Rogue Traders are for quite a while.
Huh, I only just now noticed that the backs of Tertarus termies are pants-on-head slowed. It's literally half a regular termie back glued to half a PA power pack. Is it like this on FW models too?
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: Probably eBay or one of the bits sellers, to example the Troll Trader has them up for £18, and £2 odd P and P. Postage probably kills it for you in Australia though. (Or maybe not, looks like it is sub £3).
Hmm... that's cheaper than I've seen them elsewhere. Thanks.
lord_blackfang wrote: Huh, I only just now noticed that the backs of Tertarus termies are pants-on-head slowed. It's literally half a regular termie back glued to half a PA power pack. Is it like this on FW models too?
richstrach wrote: No Blanchitsu in the new issue? That's rapidly become my favourite part!
Oh man, you missed out. Visions had Blanchitsu in every issue. Eye candy of the maximum degree. Blanchitsu style conversions, painting techniques and mind set is pretty much the pinnacle of the hobby. Can't get more 40k than that! I'd recommend everyone to join the inq28 group on facebook, we have all the masters in there.
Not the biggest fan of Mk3, which is a shame if I want some pre-heresy or VOTL Death Guard iin their original gear, but very tempted by this. If I wasn't waiting for a Wayland order that was shipped THREE weeks ago and now worried about losing another parcel from the UK I'd probably order it right now.
My only critique of the models would be the SoS. They should get roughly half of the bling you could remove from the Custodes, then both units would be improved. Plastic femals in armour that is somehwat plain is a great base for many conversions, but as super special snow flake blanks they should be a bit more tricked out, IMO, and the sculpting itself seems a bit lacking compared to the other minis and releases like GSC humans.
Sorry if it's been mentioned already but are they going to release (or have they) the rules for the Chaos models in the box (like Ahriman) for normal 40K?
Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote: Sorry if it's been mentioned already but are they going to release (or have they) the rules for the Chaos models in the box (like Ahriman) for normal 40K?
Loremaster Of Awesomeness wrote: Sorry if it's been mentioned already but are they going to release (or have they) the rules for the Chaos models in the box (like Ahriman) for normal 40K?
Wouldn't his rules be in the chaos codex already?
I thought he had a different weapon in the new set and so maybe some different rules
I think the biggest problem with SoS and Custodes in 40k in this current iteration, even if we are meant to think a unit of them is a formation unto itself, is that for many of us who only play under ITC rules or have local ITC events, the whole "three detachment/formation max" rules is already stretched to its limits.
If a single unit of Sister of Silence eats up one of my three "things" I feel like they just can't work, while I would really, really love them to.
In regards to the Blanchitsu thing... I love conversions, and I love seeing people's work, but I hate Blanch's model type stuff. Dunno why. Just can't stand it. I like his drawings for daemons, but that is the limit of what I enjoy. His furies? Awesome. His models? Um...no thanks.
I know it's an example of subjective opinions. They just definitely aren't for me. Although it definitely seems I'm in the minority on that one.
Planning on ordering my first unit of custodes later. Then sell my old dark eldar for the money for 2 more squads and then get the last 5 with the game
One of, if not the biggest comp/tournament pack for 40k in the US (and world?), and the one events like the LVO use. In my part of the country its also the dominant rule-set for competitive 40k.
One of its rules is that army lists may not include more than three detachments/formations, which usually means people struggle to fit in things like the always popular Culexus Assassin, etc. Assuming the Sisters/Custodes are meant to be treated as a "our unit is its own formation", it means it will be very, very hard to fit them into most competitive lists, even though their rules suggest units which have value at the competitive level.
At T5, it’s not like they were going to be doubled out very often anyway. And with 2W each, it’s not like they are going to hang out forever. EW is a lot scarier of a 4W chapter master on a bike. I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s irrelevant here, but it’s a minor perk at best.
Wilson wrote:A hint towards the future of 40k prepare for age of unbound sigmarines !
Don't even joke like that right now. On other forums some people are freaking out because of someone suggesting something. A good way if you want to troll people but it's really freaking some people out right now.
Ratius wrote:No frag grenades for Custodes?
I suppose with 2+, 2W, EW they probably dont need it but a bit strange imo since they seem geared towards a dedicated CC unit.
(oh right Nid Stealers :( ).
Now, for my Imperial Fists, do I want to put Graviton Guns on my Breachers or something else? And on my Veteran Tactical Squads(that will have the Marksmen ability for obvious reasons), do I want Heavy Bolters with Suspensor Webs or Plasmaguns?
I can't wait for this boxed set! Preorder at Frontline Gaming confirmed.
I would love to do some math-hammer on the ideal uses of "Block" on those Custodes, but man... in essence, don't they become incredibly useful at tying up Super Heavies? A Knight relies a fair bit on their Str D melee to tear things up, but if a min Custodes unit can roll all five of their blocks against it, it seems like a very potent way to take the piss out of them.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I think the biggest problem with SoS and Custodes in 40k in this current iteration, even if we are meant to think a unit of them is a formation unto itself, is that for many of us who only play under ITC rules or have local ITC events, the whole "three detachment/formation max" rules is already stretched to its limits.
If a single unit of Sister of Silence eats up one of my three "things" I feel like they just can't work, while I would really, really love them to.
And many of us could care less about artificial house rules like ITC.
Thankfully GW isn't designing stuff with ITC in mind
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I think the biggest problem with SoS and Custodes in 40k in this current iteration, even if we are meant to think a unit of them is a formation unto itself, is that for many of us who only play under ITC rules or have local ITC events, the whole "three detachment/formation max" rules is already stretched to its limits.
If a single unit of Sister of Silence eats up one of my three "things" I feel like they just can't work, while I would really, really love them to.
And many of us could care less about artificial house rules like ITC.
Thankfully GW isn't designing stuff with ITC in mind
Just saying...
Oh, I don't think GW should design giving something like the ITC any consideration... I appreciate that even widely well received, it is still a tournament comp. I just know most of the players in my area, or at least the tournament crowd will be particularly effected by this trend toward micro-armies. Considering it largely works fine for Age of Sigmar, I don't mind it as a general move, and do think it speaks to a direction for 8th Ed. and also a win-fall for expanding/creating armies that couldn't support a whole Codex unto themselves, but which could still be explored in cool ways.
Right now Sisters of Silence are an example of that, though to be fair, as written they really are unusable in anything but Unbound play.
Yeah, while I think GW really does need to be house-ruled to have reasonable balance, GW's problem is that initial need, not a failure to adhere to rules they didn't make.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I think the biggest problem with SoS and Custodes in 40k in this current iteration, even if we are meant to think a unit of them is a formation unto itself, is that for many of us who only play under ITC rules or have local ITC events, the whole "three detachment/formation max" rules is already stretched to its limits.
If a single unit of Sister of Silence eats up one of my three "things" I feel like they just can't work, while I would really, really love them to.
They're perfect ally for my War Convocation. Better than a Culexus. Probably good with Battle Company too, though they have less need for deathstar counter.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I would love to do some math-hammer on the ideal uses of "Block" on those Custodes, but man... in essence, don't they become incredibly useful at tying up Super Heavies? A Knight relies a fair bit on their Str D melee to tear things up, but if a min Custodes unit can roll all five of their blocks against it, it seems like a very potent way to take the piss out of them.
To which the knight will use his stomp rule to get his piss back.
When life hands you custodians make lemonade
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I think the biggest problem with SoS and Custodes in 40k in this current iteration, even if we are meant to think a unit of them is a formation unto itself, is that for many of us who only play under ITC rules or have local ITC events, the whole "three detachment/formation max" rules is already stretched to its limits.
If a single unit of Sister of Silence eats up one of my three "things" I feel like they just can't work, while I would really, really love them to.
They're perfect ally for my War Convocation. Better than a Culexus. Probably good with Battle Company too, though they have less need for deathstar counter.
I feel like with War Convocation they'll suffer from a lack of transports to borrow, thus going back to the old "Escape Hatch" trick to make them of any use, but you're absolutely right that they will be lovely in a Battle Company. I'll definitely run some with my Iron Hands.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I hadn't see this posted yet, but GW's official response to using these units in 40k...
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I think the biggest problem with SoS and Custodes in 40k in this current iteration, even if we are meant to think a unit of them is a formation unto itself, is that for many of us who only play under ITC rules or have local ITC events, the whole "three detachment/formation max" rules is already stretched to its limits.
If a single unit of Sister of Silence eats up one of my three "things" I feel like they just can't work, while I would really, really love them to.
They're perfect ally for my War Convocation. Better than a Culexus. Probably good with Battle Company too, though they have less need for deathstar counter.
I feel like with War Convocation they'll suffer from a lack of transports to borrow, thus going back to the old "Escape Hatch" trick to make them of any use, but you're absolutely right that they will be lovely in a Battle Company. I'll definitely run some with my Iron Hands.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I hadn't see this posted yet, but GW's official response to using these units in 40k...
Apparently they really are only for unbound play. Hmmm...
I feel like the "unbound only" answer from GW is a stopgap because they realized they dropped the ball on his and overlooked how their own rules work. So they said "uh.... yeah..... unbound only, yup that was intentional..."
I don't buy it.
No way they are going to absolutely kill sales of these models by doing this. I anticipate some additional rules/formations/detachments coming via a future Whitedwaef, etc.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I think the biggest problem with SoS and Custodes in 40k in this current iteration, even if we are meant to think a unit of them is a formation unto itself, is that for many of us who only play under ITC rules or have local ITC events, the whole "three detachment/formation max" rules is already stretched to its limits.
If a single unit of Sister of Silence eats up one of my three "things" I feel like they just can't work, while I would really, really love them to.
They're perfect ally for my War Convocation. Better than a Culexus. Probably good with Battle Company too, though they have less need for deathstar counter.
I feel like with War Convocation they'll suffer from a lack of transports to borrow, thus going back to the old "Escape Hatch" trick to make them of any use, but you're absolutely right that they will be lovely in a Battle Company. I'll definitely run some with my Iron Hands.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I hadn't see this posted yet, but GW's official response to using these units in 40k...
"The kits in this set are designed primarily for Horus Heresy games, but rules are provided to let you add them to your Warhammer 40,000 games if you want to. You are quite right – currently this is limited to Unbound games, or you and your opponent agreeing they can be included for some other narrative reason.
Neither force is currently an active military force in the galaxy (The Adeptus Custodes don't leave Terra, and the Sister of Silence have not bean widely active for 9,000 years) , so they don't feature in any current Imperial formations, which tend to reflect active forces at the close of the 41st millennium.
Both do still exist though, so who knows, we might just see more of them in future."
For now anyway. The "who knows, we might just see more of them in future." line, and the fact that they made plastic models on box able sprues suggests that there's going to be something more codex like in the future for 40k.
There was a rumour on Faeit a while ago about a "War in the webway" theme for a bunch of future releases. While OFC salt is a requirement, the 1K sons part of it seems to be panning out. With the webway gate below the Imperial palace the Custodes and SoS could be well placed to act as the Imperial faction in that story line.
