Indeed, I think with any game system YMMV. It is just a case of getting out there and playing it once the free Warscrolls are out. Then either adopt the game or stick with your WHFB edition of choice or another system that does suit you.
The Warscroll PDFs are up on the Canadian site too. If you go to a unit page in the store there is a link in the bottom right side to download the warscrolls for that race, or at least there is for Lizardmen.
Also, even though the Lizardmen are listed as fighting against chaos, they all seem to have the "Daemon" keyword for some reason...
Azreal13 wrote: It's reassuring, but still doesn't count for much without a way of putting down roughly equal armies.
In fact, it'll be even more heartbreaking if it plays well but nobody has a clue how to get two equal forces to show it.
It will probably come down to playing a bunch more games, and coming to a 'consensus' with your buddies. I feel confident that this could be done with a bit of trial and error. Heck, I could see a thread here popping up in the future where troops of different factions are compared and what not. A sort of 'community' effort to so to speak.
Pick-up games though? A lot more unpredictable animal, unfortunately.
I am all for a simple (fast) rules set - but the AoS one seems unfinished/untested (much like GW's Triumph and Treachery).
Sudden Death is boring, deciding victories on model count alone gives a massive bonus to elite (SM) forces, missile targeting (LOS through other units) needs clarification and so does movement (measure up and down if climbing walls?), no way (apart from Armour Save) to defend oneself in CC, piling in to CC weapon range results in models ending un in a pile, etc.
Also the measuring from the tip of the model combined with no facing and no part of the model being allowed to move more than the Move results in very strange movement. Such as when my Cold One Knights had enemies behind them and had to move+charge backwards into CC (attacking with the tip of their tails) in order to reach the enemy...
The Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings PDFs have certain units (skeleton warriors, morghasts, etc.) that say Death Wizards also know the "Summon ___" spell.
Do I have to have a unit of skeletons/morghasts/etc. for them to know that spell, or do they know it automatically?
kendoka wrote: I am all for a simple (fast) rules set - but the AoS one seems unfinished/untested (much like GW's Triumph and Treachery).
Sudden Death is boring, deciding victories on model count alone gives a massive bonus to elite (SM) forces
Sudden death is a bit more nuanced than that but it does still sound rushed - if you're outnumbered at deployment you get to choose a special objective that if you achieve it, you win a major victory. Low model count armies are more likely to have shock troops / strong units that are going to be good at achieving that objective, so it seems likely you'll get it fairly often. It will definitely have an effect on army composition though - I guess you'll want multiple characters so you have some choice over which to make the assassination target, a strong resilient unit you can make the unit target, etc, if you're playing a high model count army. If it's a race to the bottom to avoid giving the other guy the objective then that's interesting in itself, but it's going to be a bit of a pain generally...
Had a look at some warscrolls and I'm pleased to see some flavour of the old army books is retained instead of a flat list of unit cards. Honestly this scroll format is great for me, and I'm starting to get used to the weird fluff, I just wish there were some way of balancing the fether.
WTF - in the Ogre Kingdom rules for Greasus Goldtooth:
"Then, offer your opponent a bribe (this can be anything you want to offer). If your opponent accepts the bribe then the chosen effect takes place - otherwise, nothing happens. Players are free to haggle over the offered bribe, or propose a counter-offer."
The models are nice. No doubt about it. And no surprise there since the pictures are everywhere... Some of the piece splits are weird. In some cases, the seams are in the middle of shoulder pads, in some cases, notl.
As nice as they are, they're freakin' huge... I'm half convinced that's a deliberate attempt to "rescale" the game and make older models obsolete.
The big Khonre beastie is even sillier in person. It's entre back is covered with the "emerging" skulls. I'm sure some foilks will like it, but I thought it was the definitel loser of the lot.
As bad as that big nasty is, the Lord is just amazing. Very cool model if Khorne's your thing. I can see that model going into a lot of 40K armies...
In fact, I can see a lot of AoS boxes being sold to 40k World Eater players... Again, not a suprise as others have noted the same thing.
As for the rules...
Ugh. Just ugh...
Unless I missed something, this is not a full game. Point blank, there simply *has* to be something else coming. Don't know if that's the "free" WarsScrolls or something else.
The scenarios are just, really, for what's in the box. This is not something you can use your "legacy" models for. The bulk of the scenarios I saw specified the excat WarScrolls AND number of models you use... But at least one had, "Use the following models *plus* any others you have in your collection".
As for gameplay, about the only hope I can see in the game is if the interaction of special rules for units in the WarScrolls add enough depth to the game to make it interesting. Of course, Wyrd and Privateer Press have huge leads on that front albeit in more complicated rules sets. It'll be interesting to see if the "4 page rules" really mean it's a simple game once there are 10's or 100's of WarScrolls driving game play.
All in all, there's nothing I saw today that makes AoS the slightest bit more tempting. The models are nice, but that's about it...
Oh, and the new whippy sticks are horrible. They' have a new deisgn that is seriously funclutionally lacking. Rather than being solid pieces of plastic, they're "hollow" in the middle/bottom making them far wider than the old sticks, less flexible and much more clunky. A ciompltely minor thing since most folks it seems don't use whippy sticks anyway, but I was shocked at how functionally impaired they seemed to be,.
Schmapdi wrote: WTF - in the Ogre Kingdom rules for Greasus Goldtooth:
"Then, offer your opponent a bribe (this can be anything you want to offer). If your opponent accepts the bribe then the chosen effect takes place - otherwise, nothing happens. Players are free to haggle over the offered bribe, or propose a counter-offer."
After seeing the Warscrolls I'm actually quite liking AoS.
I still hate the fact there's no points system and that it's completely replacing WHFB, though...
At least I have more of a reason to put standards in my Tomb King units. Resurrect all the skeletons!
Also the rules (for TK skeletons, anyway) push you toward taking at least a 30 strong horde; they have a rule stating that if you have 20 warriors in the unit they increase their attacks by one and if you have at least 30 they increase their attacks by 2.
... Is it awful that some of the rules sound super fun? I want to use my Warhammer Giant just for things like "Timber!!!"
Also, "Monster" and "Hero" keywords are used wherever relevant, so I really do think us making a "standard" of say...
-1 Hero Warscroll
-1 Monster Warscroll
- 3 any regular Warscroll
- 100 model cap
- No unit can have more than 20 wounds worth of models
... seems increasingly viable.
Where are you seeing these limitations?
Because I see some of the Warscrolls that -start- with 20 wounds worth of models, and says you can have more....?
-confuzzled-
Just throwing it out there as a "format" I can imagine stores/events running as a balancing mechanism. I didn't see it, but I do see that any model that seems to have high wounds has "Monster" or "Hero" with "Hero" conferring additional Hero-Phase rules as per the four-page instructions.
As such, and especially because, at a glance the only BROKEN part of the rules seems to be the potentially unlimited size of units, I can see very minor agreements from the community, translating pretty quickly into a playable game.
Even if we go with my above and simply trim to the following, it would allow for Sudden Victory to be a factor/bid system meta-game, while keeping the rest managable.
- 1x Hero scroll
- 1x Monster scroll
- 3x Unit scrolls
- Max 100 Models.
The Grail Vow: You can re-roll all failed
hit rolls for this unit if, before rolling the
dice, you hold aloft a grail or goblet and
shout ‘For the Lady’ in a heroic voice.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Were all the skaven effects 13" before?
Scanned over the Warriors of Chaos PDF, and Wulfrik's Gift of Tongues ability stood out. Not for a good reason. Basically if an enemy hero is near Wulfrik you make fun of your opponent, and if they change expression Wulfrik gets rerolls vs heroes that turn.
Yea, sure it is cute, but that sort of rule has no place in a game with as much time investment as WAOS, and in practice it will just be played as "Wulfrik gets rerolls vs heroes." How do you possibly adjudicate the rule in a tournament or even just a friendly game otherwise?
The Timber rule for giants struck me the same way. It is funny to have the giant fall over and crush stuff (even if it is strange that other giant monsters don't) but laying the model over to see what it hits is just a mess. There have been many different giant models from GW alone, even before conversions, that the effect is going to be pretty significant across games. Yay for modelling for advantage!
On the other hand, I do like that monsters get less effective across various margins as they take damage. I also like how many wounds the bigger, scarier monsters and characters have. Still, I keep reading things and thinking "Ugh... yet another rule to ignore or argue over before house ruling."
The Grail Vow: You can re-roll all failed
hit rolls for this unit if, before rolling the
dice, you hold aloft a grail or goblet and
shout ‘For the Lady’ in a heroic voice.
And He Did Say ‘War’, and the World
Did Tremble...: If Settra the Imperishable
uses this ability, you must hold out your
hand and utter ‘War’ in a supremely
commanding tone. If you do, then until
your next hero phase you can add 1 to all
hit rolls for Death units in your army
that are within 18" of Settra in the combat
phase. If a Deathrattle unit is affected
by this ability, you can also add 1 to their
wound rolls in the combat phase. However,
if Settra is your general, you must not
kneel for any reason during the battle. If
you do, even once, you immediately lose
the battle. Settra does not kneel!
And He Did Say ‘War’, and the World Did Tremble...:
If Settra the Imperishable uses this ability, you must hold out your hand and utter ‘War’ in a supremely commanding tone. If you do, then until your next hero phase you can add 1 to all hit rolls for Death units in your army that are within 18" of Settra in the combat phase. If a Deathrattle unit is affected by this ability, you can also add 1 to their wound rolls in the combat phase. However, if Settra is your general, you must not kneel for any reason during the battle. If you do, even once, you immediately lose the battle. Settra does not kneel!
Me: "Waaaar!"
Him: "TO!"
TO: "What?"
Him: "This guys cheating. He keeps adding +1 to his to hit rolls, but his tone is only mildly commanding at best."
Yeah there now seem to be lots of rules that 'require' you to shout something in some kind of tone.
Taking Settra gives you a command ability that tells you to hold out your hand and in a commanding (sorry, supremely commanding) tone say "War".
EDIT: ninja'd... twice!
All for ignoring these 'requirements' say "Aye"
EDIT2: Also kinda sad that the Heirotitan is gone. Dammit GW you only came up with that unit last book! EDIT3: And goodbye every TK special character except Settra and Khalida... may you rest in eternal slumber.
The additional rules for standards and musicians make them auto include as well. Terrible for balance but maybe a "sweetener" for veteran players with old armies?
Cavalry get 10" movement too, at least in the Bret list.
Schmapdi wrote: WTF - in the Ogre Kingdom rules for Greasus Goldtooth:
"Then, offer your opponent a bribe (this can be anything you want to offer). If your opponent accepts the bribe then the chosen effect takes place - otherwise, nothing happens. Players are free to haggle over the offered bribe, or propose a counter-offer."
This is how GW wants us to play the game?
That's kind of freakin' awesome, actually...
People are so concerned, and perhaps rightly, with tournament/competitive viability... but ye Gods does this game seem to have a ton of fun. My aforementioned "TIMBER!!!!" rule for Giants is hilarious, and something I know friends and I will get a kick out of.
I know people are upset, and surely WHFB is gone and dead... but this totally different game does look terribly fun in its own way.
Honestly the rules with strange requirements are the only thing keeping my interest now. It's basically GW admitting it's not a tournament game and then going all the way with the rules knowing that.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Yeah there now seem to be lots of rules that 'require' you to shout something in some kind of tone.
Taking Settra gives you a command ability that tells you to hold out your hand and in a commanding (sorry, supremely commanding) tone say "War".
EDIT: ninja'd... twice!
All for ignoring these 'requirements' say "Aye"
EDIT2: Also kinda sad that the Heirotitan is gone. Dammit GW you only came up with that unit last book!
EDIT3: And goodbye every TK special character except Settra and Khalida... may you rest in eternal slumber.
Checking out the rules for the Empire Warscrolls and came across this:
Pride of the Reiksguard:
Helborg’s skill is as legendary as his moustache is magnificent.
You can re-roll any failed hit rolls when attacking with the Runefang so long as you have a bigger and more
impressive moustache than your opponent.
Is this new or old? And is it the mini's moustache or the player's? Who decides on the impressiveness of the 'stache?
EDIT: Ok it seems to be new and most armies have something humorous and similar.
I totally disagree. This actually wants me to make play fantasy.
Fair point I kinda meant more for serious play if (when?) someone actually manages to make AoS balanced enough to play in a tournament setting or similar.
wana10 wrote: Between the grail vow and greasus and probably more to come i'm liking some of what i'm seeing in a "that's ridiculous i love it' kind of way.
Not in a game sort of way but it does make for good comedy.
edit* Arrowstorm! once per game peasant bowman can quadruple their shots if they number more than 20!
Seriously, this game is written pretty transparently for GW staff to run on the Sunday kids-only game, where whichever team yells "WAAAGH!" the loudest gets first turn, and the rules/balance don't actually matter because they let kids put down whatever models they have and make up rules as they go along to try and make every single Little Timmy feel like a special snowflake.
The problem is that "style" of game is only appealing to children, or bored adults looking to have a bit of a laugh very occasionally. You can't build an actual sodding game system around it; you're supposed to dumb-down the actual game system for those kinds of events, to give kids a chance to pick up the rules at their own pace and enjoy themselves while they build up a proper army over time. Without that trajectory, that sense that you're actually doing something with your hobby time rather than just playing a slightly more formal version of you and your mates running about the wooded part of the school playground yelling "pchew, pchew" and pretending to be Aliens vs Predator, on what basis do they expect people to keep buying after the first couple of weeks? They cannot seriously believe this crap is going to net them a big enough increase in volume to make up for the fact that lots of folk who would previously have bought a couple of hundred models will now be getting bored & walking away after only buying a couple of boxes, can they?
Also: dear sweet merciful Christ the fluff, the terrible, terrible fluff
I opened the first PDF for the first faction I'm a fan of in the Old World, the Empire, and I'm greeted by; "In fair Sigmaron the free people of humanity gather, preserving heraldry and cultural traditions from civilisations ground beneath the weight of unceasing strife." ...
Going by the comments; are there really that many people who enjoy making a tit out of themselves in public? Because that's what is happening when one grown-a** man reaches menacingly across a game table and exclaims "WAAAAAARRR!" in a silly voice. That kind of thing might be funny when it's a guy you know doing it spontaneously for a bit of a laugh, but the idea of doing that kind of thing in every game I play against any random person at a local club actually sounds like a profoundly socially uncomfortable experience to me.
Sorry for the shameless plug, but here is an extensive review of the Age of Sigmar starter set, including a closer look at the book and the lore, as well as large high quality pictures of the sprues, and what we think about Age of Sigmar: http://taleofpainters.blogspot.de/20...r-starter.html
We've actually been provided with a review sample by Games Workshop, completely unexpected and unrequested. Quite a shocker indeed There must be much at stake for GW with this release indeed.
Also, no point costs or army selection guidelines are real. Models aren't push fit but require glue. Anything else?
Lot's of loverly shouting for the greenskins (or whatever they are called now)
eg
Waaa gh! Drummer
Models in this unit may be Waaagh!
Drummers. You can add 2 to the charge
rolls of a unit that includes any Waaagh!
Drummers, but only if you bellow
‘Waaagh!’ when rolling the dice.
Standards and musicians have rules that are army specific.
For example, a TK standard resurrects D6 skeletons, a skaven standard lets them retreat and charge in the same turn, lizzies penalize enemy Battleshock tests.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Yeah there now seem to be lots of rules that 'require' you to shout something in some kind of tone.
Taking Settra gives you a command ability that tells you to hold out your hand and in a commanding (sorry, supremely commanding) tone say "War".
EDIT: ninja'd... twice!
All for ignoring these 'requirements' say "Aye"
EDIT2: Also kinda sad that the Heirotitan is gone. Dammit GW you only came up with that unit last book!
EDIT3: And goodbye every TK special character except Settra and Khalida... may you rest in eternal slumber.
Ancient Dignity: Dragons are ancient and prideful creatures, and the Elves that ride them are no less haughty, but from such nobility and dignity stems an inner strength. If, during your entire hero phase, you can maintain a dignified (even arrogant) composure and not smile, smirk or laugh regardless of your opponent’s antics, you may re-roll all hit rolls of 1 made for models in a Dragon Host until your next hero phase.
Wow, mikhaila's post really turned my opinion on this release from fairly negative to a lot more positive. However, it's now gone to the point of tragic, as the nearly confirmed news of there being no points feels like finding the perfect house, only to realize it has no bathrooms. It just isn't going to work
One Bat Short of a Belfry: Konrad is a
violent lunatic, and his temper does little
to help his stretched sanity. If, during
your hero phase, you talk to Konrad von
Carstein, you can re-roll all hit rolls of
1 for him until your next hero phase. If
Konrad von Carstein talks back to you,
re‑roll all failed hit rolls instead.
Come on, like you can't just ignore the shouting crap if you don't like it? It's hardly a big deal. I don't expect to see tournaments enforcing it (or playing Age of Sigmar in the first place).
Anyone that that will be a problem for is going to have a bigger problem with the lack of points costs, etc. A little levity, god.
I think they're really just trying to make the point "this is all just a fun, jokey experience guys, like playing imaginary cop vs. robber when you were a child." The problem then comes at how much money people are willing to fork out for something that really isn't a "game" by the definition of the word, more like a miniature-aided rpg. I feel that amount will be much lower than the previous game.
pretre wrote: One Bat Short of a Belfry: Konrad is a
violent lunatic, and his temper does little
to help his stretched sanity. If, during
your hero phase, you talk to Konrad von
Carstein, you can re-roll all hit rolls of
1 for him until your next hero phase. If
Konrad von Carstein talks back to you,
re‑roll all failed hit rolls instead.
This game is going to be the marmite of the gaming community. I thus far like its yeasty goodness.
GW saw how much fun Ork players having in 40K (and Orcs in Fantasy? Dunno no one I know played O&G) yelling Waagh! and made it a requirement for everyone
While fun... my god, auto-losing if I kneel when I take Settra... that's harsh.
That rule for Kondrad... I have to admit that whole thing about him talking back is funny. I take back what I said before... I'm now saying a resounding "Nay!" (this is for my "ignore the requirement to shout silly things" thing from earlier)
I was reading the entries for my counts force and I am finding it quite disappointing. Just feels a bit too simplified for my taste, its like you dont even have to look at the rules, oh yeah just roll, its always 3s or 4s to hit and wound anyway.
Then I thought you guys were making joke posts, you actually shout stuff now? I dont even wanna know what you have to do for Slannesh rules.
Lizard scrolls look ok to me at first glance. I like how slaans can summon skinks all over the place, and you can have units of salamanders without those pesky handlers. With the bonuses you get for big units I'm also thinking it might be handy to still keep em ranked and on trays the old fashioned way, at least till you have to pile in
pretre wrote: One Bat Short of a Belfry: Konrad is a
violent lunatic, and his temper does little
to help his stretched sanity. If, during
your hero phase, you talk to Konrad von
Carstein, you can re-roll all hit rolls of
1 for him until your next hero phase. If
Konrad von Carstein talks back to you,
re‑roll all failed hit rolls instead.
I officially won't hear another negative word about warscroll day.
pretre wrote: One Bat Short of a Belfry: Konrad is a
violent lunatic, and his temper does little
to help his stretched sanity. If, during
your hero phase, you talk to Konrad von
Carstein, you can re-roll all hit rolls of
1 for him until your next hero phase. If
Konrad von Carstein talks back to you,
re‑roll all failed hit rolls instead.
This game is going to be the marmite of the gaming community. I thus far like its yeasty goodness.
13 Improbable Victory!: Against all probability and reason, you immediately win the battle (and are hereafter branded a cheat – not that that should bother a true skaven general).
(so all Skaven players need to pick up a couple of dice with a 7 on them...)
Some of these special rules remind me of that incredibly awkward, and epic fail, of an advertising campaign where McDonalds was letting random people get their food for free if they hugged someone or something like that...
I get it GW. We're not supposed to care about points. We're not supposed to play in tournaments. We're supposed to forge a narrative with random die rolls. We're supposed to yell "WAAAGGGHH!" when we have a unit charge. That's all fine and dandy. When it's not forced... I have friends I game with where yelling WAAAAGGGHHHH is what we do. I don't expect my game to require it, however, because I also have friends where that's not how we roll.
pretre wrote: One Bat Short of a Belfry: Konrad is a
violent lunatic, and his temper does little
to help his stretched sanity. If, during
your hero phase, you talk to Konrad von
Carstein, you can re-roll all hit rolls of
1 for him until your next hero phase. If
Konrad von Carstein talks back to you,
re‑roll all failed hit rolls instead.
This game is going to be the marmite of the gaming community. I thus far like its yeasty goodness.
pretre wrote: One Bat Short of a Belfry: Konrad is a
violent lunatic, and his temper does little
to help his stretched sanity. If, during
your hero phase, you talk to Konrad von
Carstein, you can re-roll all hit rolls of
1 for him until your next hero phase. If
Konrad von Carstein talks back to you,
re‑roll all failed hit rolls instead.
I officially won't hear another negative word about warscroll day.
Also, if Konrad does talk back to you...well....we'll just cross that bridge when we come to it.
Pride of the reiksguard: Helborg’s
skill is as legendary as his moustache is magnificent. You can re-roll any failed hit rolls when attacking with the Runefang
so long as you have a bigger and more impressive moustache than your opponent.
Hooded Villain: A Great Moonclan’s Warboss is a mean-spirited villain whose
beady red eyes stare malevolently from beneath his hood before he launches his
attack. You can re-roll any hit dice when this Warboss attacks, but only if you are
either wearing a hood or you can beat your opponent in a staring contest before
rolling the dice (first one to blink or look away loses).
pretre wrote: One Bat Short of a Belfry: Konrad is a
violent lunatic, and his temper does little
to help his stretched sanity. If, during
your hero phase, you talk to Konrad von
Carstein, you can re-roll all hit rolls of
1 for him until your next hero phase. If
Konrad von Carstein talks back to you,
re‑roll all failed hit rolls instead.
I officially won't hear another negative word about warscroll day.
Also, if Konrad does talk back to you...well....we'll just cross that bridge when we come to it.
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
But 5 year olds can't grow moustaches let alone impressive ones, haha
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Oh come on. It's man dollies. Who doesn't act like a five-year old occasionally?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Great Book of Grudges: When Thorgrim
is set up, select an enemy unit on the
battlefield. You can re-roll any failed
wound rolls when a Dispossessed model
from your army targets that unit. In
addition, if you lose the battle, write down
the name of your opponent’s general. The
next time Thorgrim faces this general,
you can select an additional 3 enemy units
for this ability to apply to (one must be or
include the enemy general).
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
With that kind of attitude, I bet you get to re-roll 1s with all your Dwarf units.
Liquid Fortification: You can add 1 to
the Bravery of Josef Bugman and any
Dispossessed unit from your army
within 4" of him whilst you are holding
a drink.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Yeah there now seem to be lots of rules that 'require' you to shout something in some kind of tone.
Taking Settra gives you a command ability that tells you to hold out your hand and in a commanding (sorry, supremely commanding) tone say "War".
EDIT: ninja'd... twice!
All for ignoring these 'requirements' say "Aye"
EDIT2: Also kinda sad that the Heirotitan is gone. Dammit GW you only came up with that unit last book!
EDIT3: And goodbye every TK special character except Settra and Khalida... may you rest in eternal slumber.
You have to remember that the game is balanced around having fun in a beer and pretzels setting not in a tournament. Nothing stopping you from doing as you said and ignoring/autopassing these requirements. Tournaments will no doubt autopass these requirements to avoid arguments.
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Oh come on. It's man dollies. Who doesn't act like a five-year old occasionally?
Occasionally? Sure, once in a while, when I'm gaming with a few mates I know well, having a few beers.
Having to act like a child in every game I play, in front of random strangers at a club or store, in order to use the special rules of many of my units? No. That, to me, sounds like a profoundly socially uncomfortable experience, but I suppose GW cares even less for the money of people with ASDs than they do for the money of tournament gamers and people who like functional rules.
Tbh im not the type of guy to be so 'open' with new people and since my friends dont play Warhammer, I might find it a bit 'cringey' shouting things to people I dont know well but itll make games at the store a little more interesting.
These fourth wall breaking rules are something I can get behind.
NOTE: The vast majority of these special rules are tied to special characters. If you don't want them in tournaments, just ban special characters. Though I do love the idea of gamers growing mustaches, buying bribe-muffins and installing tiny speakers into their Konrad models...
pretre wrote: One Bat Short of a Belfry: Konrad is a
violent lunatic, and his temper does little
to help his stretched sanity. If, during
your hero phase, you talk to Konrad von
Carstein, you can re-roll all hit rolls of
1 for him until your next hero phase. If
Konrad von Carstein talks back to you,
re‑roll all failed hit rolls instead.
I officially won't hear another negative word about warscroll day.
Also, if Konrad does talk back to you...well....we'll just cross that bridge when we come to it.
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Yeah we all play with toy soldiers cos we are that mature !
13 Improbable Victory!: Against
all probability and reason, you
immediately win the battle (and
are hereafter branded a cheat –
not that that should bother a true
skaven general).
(so all Skaven players need to pick up a couple of dice with a 7 on them...)
I recommend d12's. (13 comes up on 12/144 outcomes) for your best odds. After all, It says roll 2 dice, not 2 d6s
I am at a complete loss is this a joke of some kind this is not a game but I guess gw can turn round and finally shut every one up that says this or that cost to many points or some things unbalanced because there is nothing there at all pmsl
I am so completely confused how this mounts to a game yes if you seriously sit down and work it all out great but as far as I can see gone are the pick up games it doesn't make a whole lot of sense you can't say only aloud 10 scrolls because you can have 30 guys of what ever type you like in there.
They have left the players to create the balance them selves it seems like gw have just thrown the toys out the pram with a we are sick of hearing people bitch at us about balance here you go a game with zero balance or as much as each individual group thinks right how ? What the hell happened ? This is a huge f*ck you from gw to the gamers and am not sure if its to be taken in some sort of humour or its vindictive in some way.
I don't know if this is brilliant marketing buy what ever as much as you want and field 10 full units to your oppents 1 biggest pocket book wins lol.
Honestly unless we are all missing something or something else comes out age of sigma has just killed warhammer few months then production ends feckin hell honestly am still a bit shocked at all this and I don't think I am alone
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!: If you spill the blood of your opponent then you win the game automatically so long as you have at least one khorne model on the table.
unmercifulconker wrote: BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!: If you spill the blood of your opponent then you win the game automatically so long as you have at least one khorne model on the table.
Too much?
Not enough - you have to also rip his head off then polish up the skull, Predator-style.
Bull0 I just yelped loudly in laughter, I know DEMAND that someone has a recorder for Konrad that spouts sassy comments about the past turn and your opponent.
News headlines "A user of the online miniature wargaming forum DakkaDakka, unmercifulconker, has murdered a man he was playing with over a game of toy soldiers just to win a game"
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
We play with toy soldiers for fun... and for some of us, write rules about them to make a living. I write fiction, and thus make up stories in my head all day, and people pay me to share those with them.
Ultimately, not everything needs to be so deadly serious. There are plenty of games that cater to us all.
Right now, we have had a mournful, weird, sometimes draining emotional rollercoaster for the last few days... These funny rules are a summer rain, in equal measure annoying, and refreshing.
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Yeah we all play with toy soldiers cos we are that mature !
I recall Miss Demeanor from Magic
If you look up I explain my feelings on the matter, but on you go, much easier to believe that anyone who's troubled by this rubbish is a joyless monster than remember that not everyone in the world finds certain things as easy as you do.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: News headlines "A user of the online miniature wargaming forum DakkaDakka, unmercifulconker, has murdered a man he was playing with over a game of toy soldiers just to win a game"
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Yeah we all play with toy soldiers cos we are that mature !
I recall Miss Demeanor from Magic
If you look up I explain my feelings on the matter, but on you go, much easier to believe that anyone who's troubled by this rubbish is a joyless monster than remember that not everyone in the world finds certain things as easy as you do.
I posted at the same time as loads of over people.
Wow touchy much - kinda hard to disagree with your description of yourself after that post.............
Seriously mate - lots of us love this sort of thing - so maybe YOU should stop being so judgemental - maybe?
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Yeah we all play with toy soldiers cos we are that mature !
I recall Miss Demeanor from Magic
If you look up I explain my feelings on the matter, but on you go, much easier to believe that anyone who's troubled by this rubbish is a joyless monster than remember that not everyone in the world finds certain things as easy as you do.
Wow touchy much - kinda hard to disagree with your description of yourself after that post.............
Oooh goody, making fun of autism now. Do carry on, maybe you can get everyone guffawing with a routine about how funny it is watching wheelchair users try to negotiate stairs.
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Yeah we all play with toy soldiers cos we are that mature !
I recall Miss Demeanor from Magic
If you look up I explain my feelings on the matter, but on you go, much easier to believe that anyone who's troubled by this rubbish is a joyless monster than remember that not everyone in the world finds certain things as easy as you do.
Wow touchy much - kinda hard to disagree with your description of yourself after that post.............
Oooh goody, making fun of autism now. Do carry on, maybe you can get everyone guffawing with a routine about how funny it is watching wheelchair users try to negotiate stairs.
If you like - what exactly is your problem with people having fun or apparently having any kind of opinion other than what matches your own.
Reach of the Great Maw: As an Ogre player, during your action phase, you may choose to remove any model from play so long as you eat the model there with your opponent as witness.
unmercifulconker wrote: Reach of the Great Maw: As an Ogre player, during your action phase, you may choose to remove any model from play so long as you eat the model there with your opponent as witness.
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Yeah we all play with toy soldiers cos we are that mature !
I recall Miss Demeanor from Magic
If you look up I explain my feelings on the matter, but on you go, much easier to believe that anyone who's troubled by this rubbish is a joyless monster than remember that not everyone in the world finds certain things as easy as you do.
You should have the courtesy of not calling people out for enjoying what they enjoy. Your junk is someone else's treasure and vice versa.
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Yeah we all play with toy soldiers cos we are that mature !
I recall Miss Demeanor from Magic
If you look up I explain my feelings on the matter, but on you go, much easier to believe that anyone who's troubled by this rubbish is a joyless monster than remember that not everyone in the world finds certain things as easy as you do.
Wow touchy much - kinda hard to disagree with your description of yourself after that post.............
Oooh goody, making fun of autism now. Do carry on, maybe you can get everyone guffawing with a routine about how funny it is watching wheelchair users try to negotiate stairs.
I have used a power-wheelchair ever since I was born...
... I have faced incredible social anxiety in just feeling like I "deserve" my place out in the world and amongst people.
So yeah... I know how hard it can be, I really do.
I also know the healing value in allowing yourself to have fun periodically, and say to hell with the judgements of others. I applaud you though for over-coming, and socializing in this hobby, and I wish you many happy games in a system that you really enjoy.
Well i was on the fence about the lack of balance thing before but with the special rules im in bugger it, should be fun playing against some freinds family with the rules.
"Braying Warcry: Red-hot rage festers in
the savage minds of Wargors, their only
desire to rend and destroy. You can add 1
to all hit rolls made for a Wargor if, before
rolling the dice, you let loose a primal
warcry. Your warcry must use no actual
words, but angry grunts and raging snorts
are encouraged."
"Pride of the Reiksguard: Helborg’s
skill is as legendary as his moustache is
magnificent. You can re-roll any failed hit
rolls when attacking with the Runefang
so long as you have a bigger and more
impressive moustache than your opponent."
The Mad Count: Marius Leitdorf is an
exceptional swordsman, even if he is totally
insane. If, during your hero phase, you
pretend to ride an imaginary horse, you
can re-roll failed hit rolls for the Averland
Runefang until your next hero phase. If
you actually talk to your imaginary horse
you can re-roll failed wound rolls as well.
I am laughing my head off. This is the worst miniatures game in human history.
But no, guys,GW is a good company that seriously cares about making a quality game.
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
I know. I can't believe that people like to enjoy themselves and have fun. There's no room for fun in gaming!
"The landscapes of the Mortal Realms can
both aid and hinder your warriors. Unless
stated otherwise, a model can be moved
across scenery but not through it (so you
can’t move through a solid wall, or pass
through a tree, but can choose to have a
model climb up or over them)."
"The landscapes of the Mortal Realms can
both aid and hinder your warriors. Unless
stated otherwise, a model can be moved
across scenery but not through it (so you
can’t move through a solid wall, or pass
through a tree, but can choose to have a
model climb up or over them)."
They way I read it it means you need to have enough movement to scale the terrain, costing additional movement depending on the height instead just phasing through.
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
This.
And people wonder why they have to do the spiel of "Oh wargaming/mandollies are not just for kids!" when they tell people about their hobby. GW is the public face of this hobby in this country and they've just reinforced the stereotype. I'm gonna LOVE gak like this going on in the FLGS. People jumping around and shouting like morons as the rule of the game force them to do so...
It is what it is. I think it's time for the people with sticks up their bums to bow out, it's not like your moaning is going to accomplish anything now, apart from getting you a buff to Longbeards.
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
This.
And people wonder why they have to do the spiel of "Oh wargaming is not just for kids!" when they tell people about their hobby. I'm gonna LOVE gak like this going on in the FLGS. People jumping around and shouting like morons as the rule of the game force them to do so...
People play the games in different ways and have fun in different ways - I am quite happy to make noises, talk to my figures and other stuff and thats without the rules to back it up - on the other hand I don't personally enjoy playing rules lawyers and similar............
Our club can get pretty loud anyway - especially when people are enjoying the games.
Oh and we are in our 30s and 40s for the msot part....................
Signpost to war: Units that start their movement phase within 6" of a signpost can move an extra inch in that phase
Its very similiar to rules I made up when I was 10, and had some models, an never read the rule book......
There's is literally no point in taking some units now. taking Men at Arms is just asking to Auto lose.
Its like a chess game, where an opponent brings 6 queens and you get 10 Pawns and your opponent has the balls to say you have an advantage because you outnumber him.....
Comrade wrote: Its very similiar to rules I made up when I was 10, and had some models, an never read the rule book......
There's is literally no point in taking some units now. taking Men at Arms is just asking to Auto lose.
Its like a chess game, where an opponent brings 6 queens and you get 10 Pawns and your opponent has the balls to say you have an advantage because you outnumber him.....
Right. So from what I'm seeing so far, your two options are:
1. Play the scenario that tells you how many queens and pawns to take
2. Pick models and agree on a battle that feels right to both players
I mean, I get it -- Neither will make for great tournaments. I'm not entirely convinced that they can't make for good pick-up games, because MOST people I meet randomly are actually pretty cool people, and I think I could trust myself and them to choose out a couple of reasonably equal-ish armies, or at least pick out the obvious problems. But of course, that's not everyone's experience, and it takes away a lot from (virtually eliminates) the competitive listbuilding angle.
Thanks. That has a link to the Core Rules as well as the Scenery War Scroll (which many ignored).
haroon wrote: This system is terrible, and it would be a really bad idea for GW to adapt it for 40k which I why I am positive they are working on it :/
40K players must see the doom writing on the wall. They will evolve to this. they will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
haroon wrote: This system is terrible, and it would be a really bad idea for GW to adapt it for 40k which I why I am positive they are working on it :/
I doubt that very much. GW makes WAY too much money selling codex and campaign books to the 40k crowd to cannibalize those sales.
The only reason they did this was because "nobody" was buying Fantasy (or at least, a greatly reduced population).
RatBot wrote: "Braying Warcry: Red-hot rage festers in
the savage minds of Wargors, their only
desire to rend and destroy. You can add 1
to all hit rolls made for a Wargor if, before
rolling the dice, you let loose a primal
warcry. Your warcry must use no actual
words, but angry grunts and raging snorts
are encouraged."
"Pride of the Reiksguard: Helborg’s
skill is as legendary as his moustache is
magnificent. You can re-roll any failed hit
rolls when attacking with the Runefang
so long as you have a bigger and more
impressive moustache than your opponent."
The Mad Count: Marius Leitdorf is an
exceptional swordsman, even if he is totally
insane. If, during your hero phase, you
pretend to ride an imaginary horse, you
can re-roll failed hit rolls for the Averland
Runefang until your next hero phase. If
you actually talk to your imaginary horse
you can re-roll failed wound rolls as well.
Imagine, just for a moment, that someone had posted those rules three months ago as rumours. What sort of reception do you think they'd have got?
Thanks. That has a link to the Core Rules as well as the Scenery War Scroll (which many ignored).
haroon wrote: This system is terrible, and it would be a really bad idea for GW to adapt it for 40k which I why I am positive they are working on it :/
40K players must see the doom writing on the wall. They will evolve to this. they will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
Hidden in the "Scenery Scrolls" is actually a very major rule about "walls and fences", in terms of cover. I'm surprised that one didn't make its way into the four-pager.
Still cannot say I like the sigmarites or whatever they are called at all, the helmets just look weird.
I reckon I might actually get some dwarves in and have a bash now I have seen some warscrolls, seems like it could actually be fun, even though im not really into shouting and stuff while I play but thats hardly a negative, its not like its a requirement.
I do feel for the chaps that were after balance though, shame not everyone is happy.
RatBot wrote: "Braying Warcry: Red-hot rage festers in
the savage minds of Wargors, their only
desire to rend and destroy. You can add 1
to all hit rolls made for a Wargor if, before
rolling the dice, you let loose a primal
warcry. Your warcry must use no actual
words, but angry grunts and raging snorts
are encouraged."
"Pride of the Reiksguard: Helborg’s
skill is as legendary as his moustache is
magnificent. You can re-roll any failed hit
rolls when attacking with the Runefang
so long as you have a bigger and more
impressive moustache than your opponent."
The Mad Count: Marius Leitdorf is an
exceptional swordsman, even if he is totally
insane. If, during your hero phase, you
pretend to ride an imaginary horse, you
can re-roll failed hit rolls for the Averland
Runefang until your next hero phase. If
you actually talk to your imaginary horse
you can re-roll failed wound rolls as well.
Imagine, just for a moment, that someone had posted those rules three months ago as rumours. What sort of reception do you think they'd have got?
People would be wondering if they were in one of Kid_Kyoto's threads.
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Yeah we all play with toy soldiers cos we are that mature !
I recall Miss Demeanor from Magic
If you look up I explain my feelings on the matter, but on you go, much easier to believe that anyone who's troubled by this rubbish is a joyless monster than remember that not everyone in the world finds certain things as easy as you do.
Wow touchy much - kinda hard to disagree with your description of yourself after that post.............
Oooh goody, making fun of autism now. Do carry on, maybe you can get everyone guffawing with a routine about how funny it is watching wheelchair users try to negotiate stairs.
If you like - what exactly is your problem with people having fun or apparently having any kind of opinion other than what matches your own.
I typed out several snarky responses to this bait, but I've decided I'm going to actually try and make an effort to convey my view on this, even though I fully expect to be rewarded with a series of "get over it, lulz" and "lighten up broskie!" posts.
This kind of thing isn't just a bit of fun to someone like myself. It's taken twenty years for me to reach a point I can interact with people in public in a way that appears "normal" to them and to observers, and doing so requires constant effort on my part. I cannot tell when someone is annoyed, or offended, or bored by what I say or do, I have no access to the constant stream of subconscious information most people are processing during social interactions, and because of the often ridiculous social conventions people follow I have to -on top of trying to consciously analyse the other person's behaviour to try and glean their intent- carefully moderate my behaviour, as the other person will likely not actually tell me when I have annoyed, offended, or bored them, they will just assume that I know full-well what I've done and am continuing to do it because I dislike them, meaning they either leave the conversation and end up telling others that I'm an unpleasant person, or they will explode angrily, from my perspective out of nowhere, and I have no way to respond to that. I'm not fishing for sympathy here, I'm just trying to provide context so you can understand where I'm coming from.
This kind of OTT behaviour isn't something I can do in front of random strangers, or even just acquaintances, because I'm not getting any cues from them, no feedback. By requiring this kind of "acting up" in the actual rules for the game, rather than leaving humour up to spontaneity as it should be, I'm left with essentially two choices; don't play the game(since organised play with friends I know well enough to relax around is rare these days), or refuse to use that part of the rules and explain why(or else be branded a killjoy, see above replies to my initial distaste). Out of interest, have you ever seen how most people tend to react when they're told by the person they're talking to that person has some form of mental health issue or disorder? When the most common responses to the "explain why" option are going to be either mockery or profound awkwardness, you can perhaps grasp why that's an unappealing option.
For you this kind of "mandated fun" isn't a problem, because if you enjoyed that kind of humour as part of your gaming experience anyway nothing has really changed for you, or if it has changed it's not in a way that causes you any trouble. For folk like myself, or for just generally socially awkward or shy people(who, you might have noticed, are fairly prevalent in geekdom), it's a genuine impediment. Just as, for you, lack of a ramp into a building causes no problems, but is a fairly big deal for a wheelchair user.
2. Pick models and agree on a battle that feels right to both players
I mean, I get it -- Neither will make for great tournaments. I'm not entirely convinced that they can't make for good pick-up games, because MOST people I meet randomly are actually pretty cool people, and I think I could trust myself and them to choose out a couple of reasonably equal-ish armies.
The problem with this is there is no base level for comparison. What do you say before the game? You cant say 2000 point game, how do you describe the size of battle you wish to play? Do you say 15 unit game? but do 2 dwarf hammer units = 3 units of zombies? = 1 unit of khorne cav???
One player is speaking in oranges the other in apples.
Hidden in the "Scenery Scrolls" is actually a very major rule about "walls and fences", in terms of cover. I'm surprised that one didn't make its way into the four-pager.
It makes the guy who was ranting about how you had to "put models on top of fences in order for them to claim cover saves" look like a goon, in my opinion.
What an absolute joke. GW have officially given up any pretense that they actually make games. I sincerely hope my local FLGS decides to ban this kind of stupid behavior.
kendoka wrote: I am all for a simple (fast) rules set - but the AoS one seems unfinished/untested (much like GW's Triumph and Treachery).
Sudden Death is boring, deciding victories on model count alone gives a massive bonus to elite (SM) forces, missile targeting (LOS through other units) needs clarification and so does movement (measure up and down if climbing walls?), no way (apart from Armour Save) to defend oneself in CC, piling in to CC weapon range results in models ending un in a pile, etc.
Also the measuring from the tip of the model combined with no facing and no part of the model being allowed to move more than the Move results in very strange movement. Such as when my Cold One Knights had enemies behind them and had to move+charge backwards into CC (attacking with the tip of their tails) in order to reach the enemy...
Needs some tweaking (and points).
From our playtesting:
Skip sudden death.
We measure from the base.
Dont worry about the distance parts of the model moves if you are just rotating the model on it's center. Especially on round bases this makes sense.
Yeah, looks like I won't be painting up my Dark Elves.
I'm sure talking to your models, yelling at your opponent, and making silly gestures will be super hilarious the fiftieth time you do it. I guess I'm getting too old for this gak.
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Yeah we all play with toy soldiers cos we are that mature !
I recall Miss Demeanor from Magic
If you look up I explain my feelings on the matter, but on you go, much easier to believe that anyone who's troubled by this rubbish is a joyless monster than remember that not everyone in the world finds certain things as easy as you do.
Wow touchy much - kinda hard to disagree with your description of yourself after that post.............
Oooh goody, making fun of autism now. Do carry on, maybe you can get everyone guffawing with a routine about how funny it is watching wheelchair users try to negotiate stairs.
If you like - what exactly is your problem with people having fun or apparently having any kind of opinion other than what matches your own.
I typed out several snarky responses to this bait, but I've decided I'm going to actually try and make an effort to convey my view on this, even though I fully expect to be rewarded with a series of "get over it, lulz" and "lighten up broskie!" posts.
This kind of thing isn't just a bit of fun to someone like myself. It's taken twenty years for me to reach a point I can interact with people in public in a way that appears "normal" to them and to observers, and doing so requires constant effort on my part. I cannot tell when someone is annoyed, or offended, or bored by what I say or do, I have no access to the constant stream of subconscious information most people are processing during social interactions, and because of the often ridiculous social conventions people follow I have to -on top of trying to consciously analyse the other person's behaviour to try and glean their intent- carefully moderate my behaviour, as the other person will likely not actually tell me when I have annoyed, offended, or bored them, they will just assume that I know full-well what I've done and am continuing to do it because I dislike them, meaning they either leave the conversation and end up telling others that I'm an unpleasant person, or they will explode angrily, from my perspective out of nowhere, and I have no way to respond to that. I'm not fishing for sympathy here, I'm just trying to provide context so you can understand where I'm coming from.
This kind of OTT behaviour isn't something I can do in front of random strangers, or even just acquaintances, because I'm not getting any cues from them, no feedback. By requiring this kind of "acting up" in the actual rules for the game, rather than leaving humour up to spontaneity as it should be, I'm left with essentially two choices; don't play the game(since organised play with friends I know well enough to relax around is rare these days), or refuse to use that part of the rules and explain why(or else be branded a killjoy, see above replies to my initial distaste). Out of interest, have you ever seen how most people tend to react when they're told by the person they're talking to that person has some form of mental health issue or disorder? When the most common responses to the "explain why" option are going to be either mockery or profound awkwardness, you can perhaps grasp why that's an unappealing option.
For you this kind of "mandated fun" isn't a problem, because if you enjoyed that kind of humour as part of your gaming experience anyway nothing has really changed for you, or if it has changed it's not in a way that causes you any trouble. For folk like myself, or for just generally socially awkward or shy people(who, you might have noticed, are fairly prevalent in geekdom), it's a genuine impediment. Just as, for you, lack of a ramp into a building causes no problems, but is a fairly big deal for a wheelchair user.
Fair enough - but I should say that I apparently I have similar issues with my interactions with people - people have even suggested that I am somewhere on the Autistic specturm - although a friend who works with Autistic children a her job is not convinced. I understand to a small degree what you are saying but I also tend to respond with annoyance - again apparently I have anger issues...........amongst other things.
As I mentioned in my post - I replied at the same time as various others - including your reply to another - mine was intended to be joky - hence the use of eomitcons something I do way too much of ..... I just saw a unexpected response to a amusing game mechanic =- similar things I have experienced in games like Lunch Money. Your post - likely wrongly came across as mocking thoose who can enjoy such childish nonsense - for some of us Childishness is an important way of dealing with the real world........
I tend to use humour alot - it avoids dealing with real life too much which I often find tiresome - but thats likely just me.......
Don't know if this has been posted, but I've seen some discussion in the WHF threads about the use of the new names. Under faction they have kept the normal names (for now at least). But if you check under race, you see all the new names have been posted. Here's the list of the new races:
Aelf (elves)
Beastmen
Daemon
Duardin (dwarves)
Grot (goblins)
Human (former empire and brets)
Mortal (former WoC)
Mummy (Tomb Kings, specifically the actual tomb kings)
Ogor (former OK)
Orruk (orks)
Seraphon (former lizardmen)
Skaven
Skeleton (both VC skelies and TK)
Sylvaneth (tree kin from WE. Very interesting that these were split off. Maybe part of the destruction forces now?)
Troggoth (only trolls)
Vampires (just the vampires from VC)
Interestingly, I can't find the gnoblars in this list. I would have thought that they'd be in either Ogor or Grot. But they're not in either. I wonder if GW will get rid of them of it was just a formatting error.
Right I'm very confused... take this for example -
War Boar
Some Orc Warbosses ride to battle on War Boars; these models have Move 9" instead of 5" and gain the War Boar’s Tusks attack.
So obviously it is better to be mounted on a War boar, but as I understand it, there are no points.... so if your warboss is on a war boar he is better but is the same value as the Warboss on foot? Is there a down side to being on a Warboar? Or has this just made every Orc Warboss model not on a Warboar obsolete?
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Yeah we all play with toy soldiers cos we are that mature !
I recall Miss Demeanor from Magic
If you look up I explain my feelings on the matter, but on you go, much easier to believe that anyone who's troubled by this rubbish is a joyless monster than remember that not everyone in the world finds certain things as easy as you do.
Wow touchy much - kinda hard to disagree with your description of yourself after that post.............
Oooh goody, making fun of autism now. Do carry on, maybe you can get everyone guffawing with a routine about how funny it is watching wheelchair users try to negotiate stairs.
If you like - what exactly is your problem with people having fun or apparently having any kind of opinion other than what matches your own.
I typed out several snarky responses to this bait, but I've decided I'm going to actually try and make an effort to convey my view on this, even though I fully expect to be rewarded with a series of "get over it, lulz" and "lighten up broskie!" posts.
This kind of thing isn't just a bit of fun to someone like myself. It's taken twenty years for me to reach a point I can interact with people in public in a way that appears "normal" to them and to observers, and doing so requires constant effort on my part. I cannot tell when someone is annoyed, or offended, or bored by what I say or do, I have no access to the constant stream of subconscious information most people are processing during social interactions, and because of the often ridiculous social conventions people follow I have to -on top of trying to consciously analyse the other person's behaviour to try and glean their intent- carefully moderate my behaviour, as the other person will likely not actually tell me when I have annoyed, offended, or bored them, they will just assume that I know full-well what I've done and am continuing to do it because I dislike them, meaning they either leave the conversation and end up telling others that I'm an unpleasant person, or they will explode angrily, from my perspective out of nowhere, and I have no way to respond to that. I'm not fishing for sympathy here, I'm just trying to provide context so you can understand where I'm coming from.
This kind of OTT behaviour isn't something I can do in front of random strangers, or even just acquaintances, because I'm not getting any cues from them, no feedback. By requiring this kind of "acting up" in the actual rules for the game, rather than leaving humour up to spontaneity as it should be, I'm left with essentially two choices; don't play the game(since organised play with friends I know well enough to relax around is rare these days), or refuse to use that part of the rules and explain why(or else be branded a killjoy, see above replies to my initial distaste). Out of interest, have you ever seen how most people tend to react when they're told by the person they're talking to that person has some form of mental health issue or disorder? When the most common responses to the "explain why" option are going to be either mockery or profound awkwardness, you can perhaps grasp why that's an unappealing option.
For you this kind of "mandated fun" isn't a problem, because if you enjoyed that kind of humour as part of your gaming experience anyway nothing has really changed for you, or if it has changed it's not in a way that causes you any trouble. For folk like myself, or for just generally socially awkward or shy people(who, you might have noticed, are fairly prevalent in geekdom), it's a genuine impediment. Just as, for you, lack of a ramp into a building causes no problems, but is a fairly big deal for a wheelchair user.
Exalted, I'm in a similar position, though no where near as severe. So far I'm thinking I'm just going to deadpan things like saying Waaagh! as my orc's charge, or just say I don't want the advantage. It looks like the silly rules are completely optional, so I can't see them being massive issues
Freytag93 wrote: Don't know if this has been posted, but I've seen some discussion in the WHF threads about the use of the new names. Under faction they have kept the normal names (for now at least). But if you check under race, you see all the new names have been posted. Here's the list of the new races:
Aelf (elves)
Beastmen
Daemon
Duardin (dwarves)
Grot (goblins)
Human (former empire and brets)
Mortal (former WoC)
Mummy (Tomb Kings, specifically the actual tomb kings)
Ogor (former OK)
Orruk (orks)
Seraphon (former lizardmen)
Skaven
Skeleton (both VC skelies and TK)
Sylvaneth (tree kin from WE. Very interesting that these were split off. Maybe part of the destruction forces now?)
Troggoth (only trolls)
Vampires (just the vampires from VC)
Interestingly, I can't find the gnoblars in this list. I would have thought that they'd be in either Ogor or Grot. But they're not in either. I wonder if GW will get rid of them of it was just a formatting error.
What you missed is that the actual Battlescrolls have "keywords" in there.
"Sylvaneth" have their own keyword within the Wood Elf Battlescrolls.
So, the keywords for--say--a Dark Elf Assassin are:
Order, Aelf, Exiles, Hero, Dark Elf Assassin
SJM wrote: Right I'm very confused... take this for example -
War Boar
Some Orc Warbosses ride to battle on War Boars; these models have Move 9" instead of 5" and gain the War Boar’s Tusks attack.
So obviously it is better to be mounted on a War boar, but as I understand it, there are no points.... so if your warboss is on a war boar he is better but is the same value as the Warboss on foot? Is there a down side to being on a Warboar? Or has this just made every Orc Warboss model not on a Warboar obsolete?
I really think if they would have left out the "or more" from the Unit size this could have gone sooooo much better.
Example: Skaven slaves, 1 warscroll is a unit of 20 or more skaven slaves.
How easy would it have been to just leave out "or more" and now we all know 1 warscroll for skaven slaves is 20 models. if you want 40 skaven slaves you now have to take 2 warscrolls. That seemed to easy I guess?
Yodhrin wrote: Wow. I'm actually a bit surprised so many people find the idea of a game system that requires you to behave like a five year old appealing.
Yeah we all play with toy soldiers cos we are that mature !
I recall Miss Demeanor from Magic
If you look up I explain my feelings on the matter, but on you go, much easier to believe that anyone who's troubled by this rubbish is a joyless monster than remember that not everyone in the world finds certain things as easy as you do.
Wow touchy much - kinda hard to disagree with your description of yourself after that post.............
Oooh goody, making fun of autism now. Do carry on, maybe you can get everyone guffawing with a routine about how funny it is watching wheelchair users try to negotiate stairs.
If you like - what exactly is your problem with people having fun or apparently having any kind of opinion other than what matches your own.
I typed out several snarky responses to this bait, but I've decided I'm going to actually try and make an effort to convey my view on this, even though I fully expect to be rewarded with a series of "get over it, lulz" and "lighten up broskie!" posts.
This kind of thing isn't just a bit of fun to someone like myself. It's taken twenty years for me to reach a point I can interact with people in public in a way that appears "normal" to them and to observers, and doing so requires constant effort on my part. I cannot tell when someone is annoyed, or offended, or bored by what I say or do, I have no access to the constant stream of subconscious information most people are processing during social interactions, and because of the often ridiculous social conventions people follow I have to -on top of trying to consciously analyse the other person's behaviour to try and glean their intent- carefully moderate my behaviour, as the other person will likely not actually tell me when I have annoyed, offended, or bored them, they will just assume that I know full-well what I've done and am continuing to do it because I dislike them, meaning they either leave the conversation and end up telling others that I'm an unpleasant person, or they will explode angrily, from my perspective out of nowhere, and I have no way to respond to that. I'm not fishing for sympathy here, I'm just trying to provide context so you can understand where I'm coming from.
This kind of OTT behaviour isn't something I can do in front of random strangers, or even just acquaintances, because I'm not getting any cues from them, no feedback. By requiring this kind of "acting up" in the actual rules for the game, rather than leaving humour up to spontaneity as it should be, I'm left with essentially two choices; don't play the game(since organised play with friends I know well enough to relax around is rare these days), or refuse to use that part of the rules and explain why(or else be branded a killjoy, see above replies to my initial distaste). Out of interest, have you ever seen how most people tend to react when they're told by the person they're talking to that person has some form of mental health issue or disorder? When the most common responses to the "explain why" option are going to be either mockery or profound awkwardness, you can perhaps grasp why that's an unappealing option.
For you this kind of "mandated fun" isn't a problem, because if you enjoyed that kind of humour as part of your gaming experience anyway nothing has really changed for you, or if it has changed it's not in a way that causes you any trouble. For folk like myself, or for just generally socially awkward or shy people(who, you might have noticed, are fairly prevalent in geekdom), it's a genuine impediment. Just as, for you, lack of a ramp into a building causes no problems, but is a fairly big deal for a wheelchair user.
SJM wrote: Right I'm very confused... take this for example -
War Boar
Some Orc Warbosses ride to battle on War Boars; these models have Move 9" instead of 5" and gain the War Boar’s Tusks attack.
So obviously it is better to be mounted on a War boar, but as I understand it, there are no points.... so if your warboss is on a war boar he is better but is the same value as the Warboss on foot? Is there a down side to being on a Warboar? Or has this just made every Orc Warboss model not on a Warboar obsolete?
yea.... im very confused. help?
You are reading it correct. They are the same 'value' just as a goblin is the same 'value' as a Chaos Warrior in AoS.......
SJM wrote: Right I'm very confused... take this for example -
War Boar
Some Orc Warbosses ride to battle on War Boars; these models have Move 9" instead of 5" and gain the War Boar’s Tusks attack.
So obviously it is better to be mounted on a War boar, but as I understand it, there are no points.... so if your warboss is on a war boar he is better but is the same value as the Warboss on foot? Is there a down side to being on a Warboar? Or has this just made every Orc Warboss model not on a Warboar obsolete?
yea.... im very confused. help?
The limiting factor is price, of course. If you can't afford a warboss on a boar, you have to make do with the less useful footslogging version. Because this is a real game with real, meaningful rules!
2. Pick models and agree on a battle that feels right to both players
I mean, I get it -- Neither will make for great tournaments. I'm not entirely convinced that they can't make for good pick-up games, because MOST people I meet randomly are actually pretty cool people, and I think I could trust myself and them to choose out a couple of reasonably equal-ish armies.
The problem with this is there is no base level for comparison. What do you say before the game? You cant say 2000 point game, how do you describe the size of battle you wish to play? Do you say 15 unit game? but do 2 dwarf hammer units = 3 units of zombies? = 1 unit of khorne cav???
One player is speaking in oranges the other in apples.
How do you compare armies? You cant
Its absolutely laughable
This is pretty much the number one problem. I see no reason not to mount every tomb king I own on a 12 wound - half damage taking warsphinx.
I will give this a try. I will have to learn it good enough beforehand to teach it to the only other fantasy player I know, which happens to be dyslectic.
But I shall give it a fair chance, and get in a few games with the guy before we judge the game too harshly.
Yet, from what I've read so far... I don't exactly have high hopes that this is a game any of us want to play.
If i had to sum up this release in one word, it would be "weird."
The rules that encourage amateur dramatics make it feel like a bizarre hybrid of tabletop wargame and party game...maybe I would have preferred them as an optional expansion. Personally I would prefer to avoid them, as public clowning isn't my thing. Maybe if I was among friends and the atmosphere was right, but again, it feels weird to have them there in the normal everyday rules.
And the game itself is equally strange...I still havent quite got over the idea of GW giving away free rules. I feel like there must be a catch coming, or maybe they really are just aiming to be a model company these days. However, I greatly like the idea of a game with simple core rules where your unit cards influence what can be done, with the interplay of units almost being a game in itself; it reminds me a little of stat cards in Deadzone. My main interest lies in seeing whether you can get a good fantasy skirmish campaign going. If you can't, I'll probably just get Frostgrave instead.
I just wish the rules about measuring from the model and unlimited army size weren't so open to abuse (not to mention you and your opponent's models being allowed to rampage over each other's bases!). I foresee these being major obstacles to enjoying the game and a potential source of arguments between players (MFA, etc). At the very least, if the game turns out to be bad, I didn't waste money on it.
Xyxox wrote: I can confirm. Ronnie Renton is laughing his @$$ off.
I had a good talk with Ronnie the other day on facebook. He hadn't heard about the changes. And like the rest of us had a huge "WTF?" moment
But a golden opportunity for KOW. I'm talking to Joe Neet this week about running some KOW2 tournaments as soon as it's out. Taking pre-orders now.
As a player, i might have preferences. But as a store? i'll line up the KOW pony next to the AOS pony and ride both as hard as i can with one foot on each and the reins in my teeth.
So, mayhaps I missed it, but can you have mixed units? Like 1 unit of 20 with 10 sword guys + 10 spear guys? Or would they have to be 2 separate units like before?
liking what I read for my lizards and night goblins so far. I'm prolly gonna get the rules + scroll PDFs I need printed into a little book at Staples though.. cuz I'm old, and I need a book.
They've nuked the fridge, they've jumped the shark.
I said this in another thread- I'd call GW a Mickey Mouse operation, but that would be an insult to cartoon mice everywhere.
You can't really accuse them of inconsistency, though. This is the logical progression of the path that we've seen for some time in 40K. Everything is made up, and the points don't matter.
Whilst some of these rules are entertaining to me,imho I am still sadly unsatisfied with these recent developments. This is not to disparage those happy with AoS.
Fezman wrote: If i had to sum up this release in one word, it would be "weird."
The rules that encourage amateur dramatics make it feel like a bizarre hybrid of tabletop wargame and party game...maybe I would have preferred them as an optional expansion. Personally I would prefer to avoid them, as public clowning isn't my thing. Maybe if I was among friends and the atmosphere was right, but again, it feels weird to have them there in the normal everyday rules.
And the game itself is equally strange...I still havent quite got over the idea of GW giving away free rules. I feel like there must be a catch coming, or maybe they really are just aiming to be a model company these days. However, I greatly like the idea of a game with simple core rules where your unit cards influence what can be done, with the interplay of units almost being a game in itself; it reminds me a little of stat cards in Deadzone. My main interest lies in seeing whether you can get a good fantasy skirmish campaign going. If you can't, I'll probably just get Frostgrave instead.
I just wish the rules about measuring from the model and unlimited army size weren't so open to abuse (not to mention you and your opponent's models being allowed to rampage over each other's bases!). At the very least, if the game turns out to be bad, I didn't waste money on it.
Good choice. That game does look absolutely amazing, and early reviews make it sound like the true successor to Mordheim.
They've nuked the fridge, they've jumped the shark.
I said this in another thread- I'd call GW a Mickey Mouse operation, but that would be an insult to cartoon mice everywhere.
You can't really accuse them of inconsistency, though. This is the logical progression of the path that we've seen for some time in 40K. Everything is made up, and the points don't matter.
So this is the pinnacle of their madness?
The 40k community just breathed a collective sigh of relief as maybe old man GW will be back on his meds when it is time to update to 8th.
"The endless Dance:
If you are dancing
while rolling the dice for the Masque’s
attacks in the combat phase, you can re-
roll any failed hit rolls. If, at any point, you
can coerce your opponent to join in, you
can re-roll any failed wound rolls as well."
I will also say that some of comedy rules, at least to me, seem entertaining 'on paper' but I have feeling that this might be less so, at least to me, in practice.
nudibranch wrote: I will also say that some of comedy rules, at least to me, seem entertaining 'on paper' but I have feeling that this might be less so, at least to me, in practice.
I think the design team had a retreat to Denver Colorado for two weeks while inventing these war scrolls.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: So wait... are the scenery Warscrolls like Fortifications in 40K or are they just 'normal' terrain for use instead of the random effect roll?
They are similar to Fortifications.
Most of them have special rules of some kind. Some are deadly. Some give you minor benefits.
So...my new army is 2 Fateweavers and a Screaming Bell. On my first turn, during the Hero phase I use Peal of Doom then use Fateweaver's ability Oracle of Eternity to give myself a 13. I win and have the bonus of playing exactly like a Skaven.
Can anyone help me here? I'm reading the rules and there is no point system? how can my 1 wound dwarfs stand up to 4 wound ogres? how is this fair? am i missing something? Not trying to be a troll or anything or bitch, i just want to know if I'm missing something that helps this game to be fair for all partys involved?
xaszatm wrote: So...my new army is 2 Fateweavers and a Screaming Bell. On my first turn, during the Hero phase I use Peal of Doom then use Fateweaver's ability Oracle of Eternity to give myself a 13. I win and have the bonus of playing exactly like a Skaven.
Why not put down a set of 3 of these? Just in case...
PuddlePirate wrote: Can anyone help me here? I'm reading the rules and there is no point system? how can my 1 wound dwarfs stand up to 4 wound ogres? how is this fair? am i missing something? Not trying to be a troll or anything or bitch, i just want to know if I'm missing something that helps this game to be fair for all partys involved?
There are no points. The rules explicitly state you can put as many models on the battlefield until no more can fit.
xaszatm wrote: So...my new army is 2 Fateweavers and a Screaming Bell. On my first turn, during the Hero phase I use Peal of Doom then use Fateweaver's ability Oracle of Eternity to give myself a 13. I win and have the bonus of playing exactly like a Skaven.
Why not put down a set of 3 of these? Just in case...
xaszatm wrote: So...my new army is 2 Fateweavers and a Screaming Bell. On my first turn, during the Hero phase I use Peal of Doom then use Fateweaver's ability Oracle of Eternity to give myself a 13. I win and have the bonus of playing exactly like a Skaven.
Why not put down a set of 3 of these? Just in case...
Considering it explicitly says you cheated to do it, you'd be hard pressed to pull this off in any competitive setting. Most events have rules against cheating.
xaszatm wrote: So...my new army is 2 Fateweavers and a Screaming Bell. On my first turn, during the Hero phase I use Peal of Doom then use Fateweaver's ability Oracle of Eternity to give myself a 13. I win and have the bonus of playing exactly like a Skaven.
Why not put down a set of 3 of these? Just in case...
Because I want to keep at least 2 of my teeth?
There is a special rule for that somewhere don't worry. Probably a bonus for doubling the loss of teeth.
Well it does seem like they took some measures to stop people from playing a single Bloodthirster warscroll and playing 30 of them of the one warscroll. However it doesnt stop people from just using all 30 warscrolls for 30 bloodthirsters.
the "or more" clause is really getting to me. I agree, how do you balance when it just says or more. Of course I want more if there is no point value...
My main problem is that is has replaced fantasy. If this was a quirky little off-shoot, I wouldn't be bothered by this. But now I can only play 8th on Wednesdays as it's considered a specialist game. I think I'll start attending non-GW gaming groups...
nudibranch wrote: I will also say that some of comedy rules, at least to me, seem entertaining 'on paper' but I have feeling that this might be less so, at least to me, in practice.
That's my take on it as well. A lot of this is hilarious on a first readthrough, and would be amusing (with the right crowd) the first time or two... but after that is going to get old really quickly.
Chopxsticks wrote: Well it does seem like they took some measures to stop people from playing a single Bloodthirster warscroll and playing 30 of them of the one warscroll. However it doesnt stop people from just using all 30 warscrolls for 30 bloodthirsters..
You're better off taking them individually anyway, so you can tailor the size of your force against your opponent to stay under the 30% for Sudden Death.
Must say I'm suprised that these shouting and acting bonuses are as popular as they seem to be here.
Now, I'm (almost) as fond of some in-character immersive fooling around as the next guy BUT, having it proscribed by the game takes all the fun out of it for me.
I have a feeling that these proscribed phrases and mannerisms will get old rather quick. Really, really old in fact.
Posting my thoughts on this release from the WHFB General Discussions:
Accolade wrote: Yeah, seeing that the game has become a "throw models down, throw dice and see how wins" without any attempt at balancing...
Look, it's fine for a board game, or something else that you don't spend much money on. As far as a game where you're buying a rather large army with nothing codified, it seems pointless. So I suppose I might get a couple of kits I've always liked for WHFB, but I can't see myself investing any further. I'll just go to W/MH for a tactical fantasy experience.
Motograter wrote:40k is next. Deny away doubters but I would be worried
Seeing the way things are going with crazy bonuses and free points in the form of detachments, I feel this track with 40k is already on the march.
This game is going to determine whether people buy GW's models because they collect figures or because they like to play the game.
nudibranch wrote:My main problem is that is has replaced fantasy. If this was a quirky little off-shoot, I wouldn't be bothered by this. But now I can only play 8th on Wednesdays as it's considered a specialist game. I think I'll start attending non-GW gaming groups...
Yeah, I feel this is the single biggest gripe people have with AOS. Were it something of a starter for new people, I'd give it full thumbs up. But since it's subverted a future 9th, it's a difficult pill to swallow.
Apologies in advance for this question as I don't play Fantasy.
In terms of the arguments around points, what would stop someone using the current point system in 8th to get a balanced match, and yet still use the new war scrolls and rules to play. i.e we decide we are playing a 1500 point battle with our current armies, however we use the new rules and warscrolls to play the battle.
If that works, then only the new armies that are introduced would have an issue outside of the box sets.
Let me acknowledge that I have absolutely no interest in playing this game at all but I do think I understand what GW has tried to create here and it's as unique as it is stupid (imho).
First of all, it's a cooperative game not a competitive one. However, AoS is not like other cooperative games where we cooperate to achieve some common game condition together (win) and therefore share in the resulting happiness. GW assumes that just being part of the process is winning enough.
So you're supposed to enter into it with NO expectation of balance. Not even of the "hey, don't be an a-hole, my army is half as powerful as yours" variety, because you are not actually competing with the other player. You are cooperating with him/her in creating a common experience.
GW seems to assume that their games don't have any additive value beyond their ability to create a narrative, or at least that such narrative value is worth spending many dollars and time on models and paint. Which it certainly isn't to anyone I know. If I was looking for a common storytelling experience, I think I'd just join a book club.
I think I might set up a popcorn stand at the local FLGS on AoS night. So people have some snacks while they watch adults competitively act like lunatics around a table.
Are they larping nerds playing a tabletop game? Are there poltergeists attacking them? Did they take LSD before they started their game?
Who knows, but take a seat and have some popcorn ($2 of course).
Has anybody else noticed the the single largest and most visible wargames miniature company has just become the biggest laughingstock in the entire industry?
Azreal13 wrote: Oh goody, games of AoS are going to have all the officially sanctioned "fun" of an office Christmas party.
Thinking about it, this comment really has hit the nail on the head. It really does have that awkward forced humour of the games an an office party. "Best beard of the year" awards and all that sort of thing.
Azreal13 wrote: Oh goody, games of AoS are going to have all the officially sanctioned "fun" of an office Christmas party.
Thinking about it, this comment really has hit the nail on the head. It really does have that awkward forced humour of the games an an office party. "Best beard of the year" awards and all that sort of thing.
It sounds like a Christmas office party or the games the Children's Librarian would play with the kids at the library I worked at.
Some of those rules are pretty funny but it will get old fast and what will be left is a unbalanced simpleton of a ruleset for very expensive miniatures. I really cant get my head around the fact that it doesnt just coexist with whfb, kids would start with this but look up to "serious warhammer" and join when ready.
I'd say it's a joke and a cash grab before whfb reboot planned for Total War release but then why the "only round bases in boxes" business? A bit too far for a joke.
Spy_Smasher wrote: Let me acknowledge that I have absolutely no interest in playing this game at all but I do think I understand what GW has tried to create here and it's as unique as it is stupid (imho).
First of all, it's a cooperative game not a competitive one. However, AoS is not like other cooperative games where we cooperate to achieve some common game condition together (win) and therefore share in the resulting happiness. GW assumes that just being part of the process is winning enough.
So you're supposed to enter into it with NO expectation of balance. Not even of the "hey, don't be an a-hole, my army is half as powerful as yours" variety, because you are not actually competing with the other player. You are cooperating with him/her in creating a common experience.
GW seems to assume that their games don't have any additive value beyond their ability to create a narrative, or at least that such narrative value is worth spending many dollars and time on models and paint. Which it certainly isn't to anyone I know. If I was looking for a common storytelling experience, I think I'd just join a book club.
So it works if we swap the definitions of competitive and co-operative around? Two players in a versus match with victory conditions is now a co-operative game? Call me old fashioned, but i'd rather stick to the original definitions and just say this is borked. Having to say/shout things during the game just reinforces that this is aimed at small children. Not my cup of tea.
Xyxox wrote: Has anybody else noticed the the single largest and most visible wargames miniature company has just become the biggest laughingstock in the entire industry?
Dude..., you're like...10 years too late with that...
I also feel that if they updated all the armies for 8th Ed, then made End of Times and then releasing AoS it would have been better.
because people would have two ways of playing battle, 1) in the normal way, using your 8Th Ed rules and army books if you have enough time to do it, 2) AoS games that last 1 hour with like 30 models on the table.
The Problem has someone before said, is that AoS as replaced Warhammer Battle.
it would have been interessting or at least acceptable if it was a side game in the univers of Battle, like Mordheim or Hero quest, but has it is...
I think our Battle players will mostly stay to 8th Ed between themselfs and occasionaly use the AoS rules for a quicky or if they want to play with a 40k player.
personnaly i would not mind to play a Game of AoS with like 1 Vampire lord, 2 units of Zombies, 1 unit of Skeletons and a few ghouls or Crypt things/Varghulvs-what-is-it and a Corpse Cart.
And i don't mind the silly rules, since its been 15 years that i shout Blood for the Blood god when my Khornate champions manages to make great deeds of War or win challenges, heck i even have Debauchery-Blood for the Blood God song on my phone and i play the first 5 seconds of it when i generate Blood Tithe points with my KDK.
but yeah, our lot is not really the socially awkward one, and we crack some stupid jokes during the game according to what happens on the table.
Actually, having watched that video I don't see them playing it as that at all. It is 4 minutes of model porn. It is all in direct line with exactly what Kirby was saying. We are a miniatures company. We create collectible minis. And to be honest, the models are very very nice. Maybe they're not your style, but they are certainly not garbage.
I was bitten by the fantasy bug shortly before this whole rumor of 9th started. I really think its deplorable the way GW built up fantasy and released all those new army books and models only to do this shortly thereafter. No respect for that at all. Wood elves especially got GORGEOUS new models, from what i gather an exciting army book, and then BOOM. end time -> this stuff.
I think a lot of criticism I've read on here is still premature. I think people should give it a chance. But if Kings of War was a stock right now I would be buying in as fast as I could.
I have no desire to see GW get away with the murder they have committed to Warhammer fantasy and it is WAY beyond due time that people went to a competitor in droves.
Love the models, love the hobby, hate the company. They've done nothing but extort their customers for as long as I have been involved.
It's really actually making me question if I want to keep up with the hobby in general including 40k.
If anything happens like this to 40k I'm out. I collect Orks, they're generally a horde army, horde armies seem to have no benefit at all, just load up on the biggest most expensive units and your good to go!!.....
..... wait a minute, most expensive units? hrm....
In terms of the arguments around points, what would stop someone using the current point system in 8th to get a balanced match, and yet still use the new war scrolls and rules to play.
The problem with that idea is that the points costs in 8th edition are formulated (however inconsistently) for WHFB. Age of Sigmar is a completely different game. Aspects of it are similar to Warhammer Fantasy, but so much of it has changed, and most critically the units' characteristics and the way they deal damage has changed... and so their WHFB points costs are meaningless in the new game.
so it is out in new zealand not sure how i got set to that lol. Think it is 75 new zealand dollars and was 250$ when I clicked on it in canada website.
SJM wrote: Hrm, no I'm staying clear of this to be honest.
It's really actually making me question if I want to keep up with the hobby in general including 40k.
If anything happens like this to 40k I'm out. I collect Orks, they're generally a horde army, horde armies seem to have no benefit at all, just load up on the biggest most expensive units and your good to go!!.....
..... wait a minute, most expensive units? hrm....
A Wraithknight is only marginally more expensive than a full mob of 30 orks. So, no, it's not pay to win. It's simply unfair.
Really hoping some reliable rumor mongers start posting about what the new incarnation of the races will be. As funny as these Ravening Scrolls are I'd really like to know the real direction they are taking things.
It appears that everything will be in this larger scale now. Perhaps that's why the core units haven't been getting updated.
The World Before Time is gone. Shattered. Consigned to an oblivion no-one thought possible. The metallic core of that ill-fated world was hurled through the cosmos, the God-King Sigmar clinging desperately to its sigmarite surface. Aeons passed, until the core caught the attention of the great drake Dracothion; it was he who rescued Sigmar, and taught him the secrets of the Mortal Realms - connected by Realmgates and peacefully populated for many years.
But even in this utopia, Chaos would find a way to corrupt and distort everything. The Age Of Chaos gradually turned life in the realms into hell. Embracing wisdom instead of strength, Sigmar retreated to the Celestial Realm and began assembling the greatest mortal warriors, steeping them in the magic of the stars and instilling them with absolute divinity.
The Stormcast Eternals, as Sigmar named them, are ready. Sigmar’s storm is lined up to unleash its fury on the forces of chaos. The realms will tremble and the skies will scorch as the legions of the Dark Gods feel the blistering rage of the Stormhosts!
The Age Of Sigmar has arrived.
Warhammer Age of Sigmar is a fantastic starter set for any and all fans of Warhammer! Detailing the first incursions of the Realmgate Wars, this box set contains everything you need to begin your adventures in the Age Of Sigmar. There’s a stunning amount of goodies contained inside - you get:
Forty-seven incredible Citadel miniatures (no, really, forty-seven) to start off your collection, including:
One Lord-Celestant
One Lord-Relictor
Three Retributors
Two units of five Liberators
Three Prosecutors
One Mighty Lord of Khorne
One Bloodsecrator
One Bloodstoker
One Khorgorath
Five Blood Warriors
Two units of ten Bloodreavers
A ninety-six page Warhammer Age of Sigmar book containing:
All new background information on the realms and factions in the Age of Sigmar;
Guides to all the included miniatures - who they are, their place in their army and their abilities, plus pages of incredible showcases;
A thrilling play-through narrative, introducing the deep, compelling story behind Warhammer Age of Sigmar;
All the rules and Warscrolls for every miniature included in the box.
As well as this, the box contains:
A four-page rules set (this is everything you need to know to begin playing);
A pack of twelve dice;
Two range rulers;
Two Stormcast Eternal Transfer sheets.
All in all, this is a spectacular-value boxed set for any and all fans of Warhammer. Get yours, and dive into the Age Of Sigmar now!
Yeah I'll probably still stick mainly to WHFB and play AoS if I have a spare hour and a half, or if for some reason I'm at my local GW and not looking for a game of 40k.
That said, AoS still looks fun to me, it's just the whole 'no points' thing really rubs me the wrong way. I basically have to come up with my army on the spot.
Then again, I haven't played a game of it yet, so I'll see how I and the other members of my club feel after we've had a few practice games (I'm so annoyed that I got my wisdom teeth removed yesterday... otherwise I'd be able to go into the club's monthly meeting tomorrow and try it out...)
There's a story that when Tom Leher, one of America's most gifted political satirists, learned that Henry 'secret bombings' Kissenger won the Nobel Peace Prize he said 'I can't top that' and promptly retired.
Today I understand why.
As I said before, it turn it looks like when i writing fake rumors about the formless void and such, I was an optimist.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: There's a story that when Tom Leher, one of America's most gifted political satirists, learned that Henry 'secret bombings' Kissenger won the Nobel Peace Prize he said 'I can't top that' and promptly retired.
Today I understand why.
As I said before, it turn it looks like when i writing fake rumors about the formless void and such, I was an optimist.
Except I think GW out humored you mate. They took it way too far and ultimately went beyond everyone's expectations.
You'd better get used to shouting 'waaargh' a lot of playing Orcs whether you like it or not.
I can't actually believe what I'm reading. It's like if Wizards of the Coast decided every MtG set from now on was going to be an un-set. It's bizarre.
Well it seems to me that GW's fluff writing, and comedic talent are on the same level in this game. I leave it to the reader to determine what that level is. Please note, I'm not addressing the rules as I've not played them.
Just my personal opinion, but I had enough 'mandatory fun days' while I was in the Military. I'm sure as hell not going to pay to participate in something like this. Just not for me I'm afraid.
I'm actually in two minds. I want people to have fun in any way they choose to, but if this is a success and it gets ported over to 40K, then...
From the review posted earlier in the thread (thanks for the link btw):
He created the Stormhost Eternals, warriors filled to the brim with the holy magic of heaven. Immortal and of super-human strength and build, they are clad in armour of Sigmarite and capable of shooting lighting bolts with their magical weapons.
Can someone confirm the above or is it just blogger artistic flourish? I cringe at the idea of the eternals being armored in something that rhymes with ceramite and armed with something that is actually physically in the word "bolter".
Pride of the reiksguard: Helborg’s
skill is as legendary as his moustache is magnificent. You can re-roll any failed hit rolls when attacking with the Runefang
so long as you have a bigger and more impressive moustache than your opponent.
Wait, is that true? So you're basically fethed if you're female. Huh.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Am I missing something here, or is this new "warhammer" literally just running and charging at the enemy with pretty much zero subtlety?
It's like 10-15% of last edition.
Warhammer: Lobotomy Edition
I know they continue to tell us that they're a model company first and a games company second, but this is ridiculous.
I've been playing just with the starter set and been pleasantly surprised by the subtlety, or strategy so far. Gets a lot better i think with more and different figures. Not a lot of magic and shooting in the starter set, but a lot of special abilities.
And of course, Khorne should be running screaming at the enemy
Pride of the reiksguard: Helborg’s
skill is as legendary as his moustache is magnificent. You can re-roll any failed hit rolls when attacking with the Runefang
so long as you have a bigger and more impressive moustache than your opponent.
Wait, is that true? So you're basically fethed if you're female. Huh.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Am I missing something here, or is this new "warhammer" literally just running and charging at the enemy with pretty much zero subtlety?
It's like 10-15% of last edition.
Warhammer: Lobotomy Edition
I know they continue to tell us that they're a model company first and a games company second, but this is ridiculous.
I've been playing just with the starter set and been pleasantly surprised by the subtlety, or strategy so far. Gets a lot better i think with more and different figures. Not a lot of magic and shooting in the starter set, but a lot of special abilities.
And of course, Khorne should be running screaming at the enemy
Mikhalia, can you take a peek at the fluff section and see if the eternal shoot bolts of lightning and are armored in sigmarite? See my above post for why.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Am I missing something here, or is this new "warhammer" literally just running and charging at the enemy with pretty much zero subtlety?
It's like 10-15% of last edition.
Warhammer: Lobotomy Edition
I know they continue to tell us that they're a model company first and a games company second, but this is ridiculous.
I've been playing just with the starter set and been pleasantly surprised by the subtlety, or strategy so far. Gets a lot better i think with more and different figures. Not a lot of magic and shooting in the starter set, but a lot of special abilities.
And of course, Khorne should be running screaming at the enemy
Are shooting armies at a big advantage? I am liking more and more what I am seeing, but would like to know how that works.
So I was just reading through the Scenery BattleScroll, and ran across the entry for the Balewind Vortex.
If you own the model, your wizards automatically know the spell that can summon it and it gives you an in-game advantage at no in-game cost.
That is brazenly "pay to win"...
I understand that most games have a degree if "pay to win" in that if one player has more models/options/whatever he has an advantage. No problem. And I know that friends can "agree" use a non-GW models as a "counts as" Balestorm Vortex. But at a GW store? Or in a pick-up game where someone might not agree?
Which now makes the "free" rules and BattleScrolls make sense.
GW is attempting to implement the Freemium App model for miniatures games.
Yeah... Out of principle I don't support any freemium Apps, and I sure ain't gonna support freemium miniatures games. The incetive there is to make a game that's *just* good enough to get you to start playing, but not good enough that you feel compelled to make the additional purchases. Southpark nailed it.
Maybe it's an overreaction to one BattleScroll, but if this is where GW is going, I think I am completely done with GW now across the board.
pretre wrote: One Bat Short of a Belfry: Konrad is a
violent lunatic, and his temper does little
to help his stretched sanity. If, during
your hero phase, you talk to Konrad von
Carstein, you can re-roll all hit rolls of
1 for him until your next hero phase. If
Konrad von Carstein talks back to you,
re‑roll all failed hit rolls instead.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Am I missing something here, or is this new "warhammer" literally just running and charging at the enemy with pretty much zero subtlety?
It's like 10-15% of last edition.
Warhammer: Lobotomy Edition
I know they continue to tell us that they're a model company first and a games company second, but this is ridiculous.
I've been playing just with the starter set and been pleasantly surprised by the subtlety, or strategy so far. Gets a lot better i think with more and different figures. Not a lot of magic and shooting in the starter set, but a lot of special abilities.
And of course, Khorne should be running screaming at the enemy
Mikhalia, can you take a peek at the fluff section and see if the eternal shoot bolts of lightning and are armored in sigmarite? See my above post for why.
They absolutely wear 'Sigmarite' armor and wield 'Lightning Hammers'. It's in a few spoiled page screenshots before. They're also the mightiest mortals who are elevated to 'demigodhood' and end up taller, stronger than normal men, in service of their Immortal God-king...
So yeah. Literal space marines. They even have a deployment rule identical to drop pods...
Confused. I've been reading the warscrolls and in the vampire counts ones they say Death Wizards know spells. But no one has that as a special tag. Some have Death and Wizard but there are no death wizards. Even the Necromancers were referenced as deathmage in their scroll.
Other than that god I wish there was a balance mechanism cause this looks so damn fun!
Note that it seems it won't be straight forward to make all the goofy gimmick stuff just auto-pass. For example, this one doesn't work under that approach:
Everyone Has Their Price: If Greasus Goldtooth uses this ability, select an enemy unit anywhere on the battlefield and choose one of the effects listed below:
- The unit cannot move in its next turn.
- The unit cannot move, attack or cast spells in its next turn.
- All models in the unit immediately flee.
- The unit changes sides and immediately comes under your control.
Then, offer your opponent a bribe (this can be anything you want to offer). If your opponent accepts your bribe, the chosen effect takes place – otherwise, nothing happens. Players are free to haggle over the offered bribe, or propose a counter-offer...
There is actually sort of an interesting mechanic in that one, but only within the completely unstructured overall mindset of the game.
GW is attempting to implement the Freemium App model for miniatures games.
They started treating 40k like it was a free to play game but pay to win... except that it's never free to play. You trade $$ in certain formations straight up for free points as you get free units as long as you actually bought them.
So I guess they're really aiming for this game to be played with friends and not something you can do with strangers. A lot of people would be uncomfortable doing this sort of stuff with strangers.
Also I predict that FLGS and GW stores will be the worst neighbors when someone is playing AoS.
Pride of the reiksguard: Helborg’s
skill is as legendary as his moustache is magnificent. You can re-roll any failed hit rolls when attacking with the Runefang
so long as you have a bigger and more impressive moustache than your opponent.
Wait, is that true? So you're basically fethed if you're female. Huh.
Pride of the reiksguard: Helborg’s
"moustache is magnificent You can re-roll any failed hit rolls when attacking with the Runefang..."
rest is a joke from GW.
"...so long as you have a bigger and more impressive moustache than your opponent."
It is curious.. silly rules only appear in old armies, not in the Starter Set
Hulksmash wrote: Confused. I've been reading the warscrolls and in the vampire counts ones they say Death Wizards know spells. But no one has that as a special tag. Some have Death and Wizard but there are no death wizards. Even the Necromancers were referenced as deathmage in their scroll.
Other than that god I wish there was a balance mechanism cause this looks so damn fun!
Death wizards are just models with the Death and Wizard keywords.
That means Tomb Kings Liche Preists get to know those spells to (since they are also Death Wizards) and Vampire Count wizards get to know some of the TK spells (like repairing Necrosphinxes, summon Skeleton Archers, etc.)
That is curious. I'm sure a lot of players would be confused when they buy a starter set and someone they're playing with (especially if it's a stranger) starts shouting because reasons.
This is like trying to watch LotR and suddenly Aragorn shouts "LEEROOOY JENKIIIIIINS". Sure it's funny, but in a really bad way.
cygnnus wrote: So I was just reading through the Scenery BattleScroll, and ran across the entry for the Balewind Vortex.
If you own the model, your wizards automatically know the spell that can summon it and it gives you an in-game advantage at no in-game cost.
That is brazenly "pay to win"...
I understand that most games have a degree if "pay to win" in that if one player has more models/options/whatever he has an advantage. No problem. And I know that friends can "agree" use a non-GW models as a "counts as" Balestorm Vortex. But at a GW store? Or in a pick-up game where someone might not agree?
Which now makes the "free" rules and BattleScrolls make sense.
GW is attempting to implement the Freemium App model for miniatures games.
Yeah... Out of principle I don't support any freemium Apps, and I sure ain't gonna support freemium miniatures games. The incetive there is to make a game that's *just* good enough to get you to start playing, but not good enough that you feel compelled to make the additional purchases. Southpark nailed it.
Maybe it's an overreaction to one BattleScroll, but if this is where GW is going, I think I am completely done with GW now across the board.
Valete,
JohnS
I will probably spend a litle bit on eBay for 40K just to complete a couple of projects, but after that I'll never purchase another GW product from anywhere ever again. It's not worth the risk.
They absolutely wear 'Sigmarite' armor and wield 'Lightning Hammers'. It's in a few spoiled page screenshots before. They're also the mightiest mortals who are elevated to 'demigodhood' and end up taller, stronger than normal men, in service of their Immortal God-king...
So yeah. Literal space marines. They even have a deployment rule identical to drop pods...
Thanks (but not really as it is stupid beyond belief) for the confirmation. For all those folks who decried the calls of the sigmarines being space marine copies, is there anyone that doesn't believe that now that GW is literally rhyming and reusing the same words as in 40k to describe both their arms and armaments on top of all the rest of the similarities both in looks and fluff? Sounds like it's time for an apology from all those folks who kept saying it wasn't so since apparently GW has officially run out of ideas. I anxiously await the vigorous mia culpas from the folks who so vocally declared that the similarities were either imagined or skin deep.
This isn't a game without points, formations, or some way to level opponents. That's like saying you can play monopoly but you can just take as many properties as you want. Also money. And pieces. So buy multiple monopoly boxes. o.0
Tank_Dweller wrote: Do we know how the chaos minis compare size wise to the existing range... i'm just wondering if new stuff for existing armies will blend or not.
I gave a link to the box on gw website everyone is ignoring for some reason the big red guy is hellbrute size
Technically it is a game, just not a balanced one. (To be a game it need to have rules and both a win and lose state. AoS fulfills those requirements).
Tank_Dweller wrote: Do we know how the chaos minis compare size wise to the existing range... i'm just wondering if new stuff for existing armies will blend or not.
Do we know if GW is okay? Has someone checked on them?
The last couple of games were "Grandma calling you the wrong name." But its getting to be like when Grandma puts her cat in the freezer, and you need to decide if Grandma needs help, or if that's just, like, her "cat freezer."
