Sinful Hero wrote: That's probably too much info for dakka- The mods don't like points costs and rules laid out so obviously. Might rewrite it in a much simpler way
Sinful Hero wrote: That's probably too much info for dakka- The mods don't like points costs and rules laid out so obviously. Might rewrite it in a much simpler way
better now?^^
Much better I think. It seems like it would be fun to play! OOE seems kinda lonely though- besides Swarmy he's the only CC monster.
Sinful Hero wrote: That's probably too much info for dakka- The mods don't like points costs and rules laid out so obviously. Might rewrite it in a much simpler way
better now?^^
Much better I think. It seems like it would be fun to play! OOE seems kinda lonely though- besides Swarmy he's the only CC monster.
yeah but the limit was 1750
it's a compromise!^^
ooe is the armour 14 hunter
the devilgaunt bomb can deliver pretty damage (60 shots str 4) on zergy units
the swarmy is there for the fluff mostly also for the reserve buff
malanthrope can be used defensively or it can provide a huge shield to the devilgaunt bomb!^^
rippers are there to steal objectives.. but with the spinefists can say something to the rearguard
i miss some synapse but... the leviathan let's me reroll so the really bad things are on a 25%...
as i've said... it's a list to have fun (my opponent is a da at his 2nd match i don't aim to win i'm looking to make him enjoy the game)
Just got back from TSHFT Open in Seattle and I am exhausted (not just from the gaming, but from all that drinking!). Will update this thread tomorrow.
BTW, out of about 60 players at the GT, there were about 14-15 Tyranid players.
11 of them ran the Barbed Hierodule!
1 of them ran 5 flyrants.
1 of them ran zoans+neuros in tyrannocytes.
1 of them ran the Deathleaper Assassin Brood.
I'm not sure yet how Tyranids did, but it wasn't as great as in other tourneys. InControl, who finished 2nd at Brawl in the Fall, didn't do as well here, finishing the tournament 3-2.
I didn't bring Nids for this tournament. Instead, I brought my Necrons. My battle reports will come out a little later this week.
Everybody loves to win, I know that, but I also like to have fun! I have never seen an assualty Nids list before; they're always FMC spam or...well usually just FMC spam. I know that the meta favors shooty armies but my favorite units in the Tyranid codex are unfortunately CC units. So here's a fun list that I made featuring all of my favorite units.
Close Combat Tyranids: 1000pts
HQ: 385pts
Swarmlord
-Tyrant Guard 2x
Troops: 30pts
Mucolid
Mucolid
Elites:185pts
Malanthrope
Lictor
Lictor
Fast Attack: 400pts
Dimachaeron
Dimachaeron
It's just a fun list overall. The Lictors stay in reserves and then deepstrike onto an objective later in the game, or maybe they just start on one, I'm not entirely sure but this list is for purely aesthetic and entertainment purporses. My Swarm-Star (Swarmlord, tyrant guard, Dimas, and Malanthrope) march up the field and hopefully survive until they can charge into combat and eat everything. For a 2000 point game I would drop one guard and both lictors to add in a lictor forest brood and a subterranean swarm. All the lictors would infiltrate turn 1 and the enemy would have to make a tough decision: Focus on the Swarm-Star before it makes it across the board, or focus on the lictors because with the Swarmlord's special rules the Subterranean swarm will probably arrive on turn 2 and if the lictors aren't dead they will be causing lots of trouble. I doubt either list competitive but they sure would be fun! I do have one hypothetical question though: If you had two seperate Malanthrope/venomthrope units giving within 6" of the same unit, would the shrouded stack? Logically it would but I don't know if the rules would allow it or not.
As always, thanks for your time! If you could make an assualt oriented Tyranid list what units would you take?
P.S. Fun Fact: The most expensive single model in the Tyranid codex is the Hive Tyrant which can get itself up to 485 points.
Because we couldn't fit all these accumulated data in 1 page....nor could we do it in 280 pages.
+1 Internet
@Boburrito I would change the Lictors into Hormagaunts to provide a mobile screen for the Dimachaerons so that you get a nice cover save wile moving up.
Wilson wrote: I think we're better off when self allying isn't allowed as it prevents much more naughty spam in other armies.
I can think of exactly one example of this. Necrons spamming Annihilation barges, aka the most undercosted unit in all of 40k. Every other army has a pretty good ability to spam their scary stuff without a self ally.
Wilson wrote: I think we're better off when self allying isn't allowed as it prevents much more naughty spam in other armies.
I can think of exactly one example of this. Necrons spamming Annihilation barges, aka the most undercosted unit in all of 40k. Every other army has a pretty good ability to spam their scary stuff without a self ally.
>.> looking at you Jy2. 3 CCBs and 4 Annibarges?? Don't think your fellow bug lovers don't know what you're up to
Sinful Hero wrote: Speaking of... Seems like a fairly short review to me, but I'd appreciate any input to add to beef it up if needed.
Zoanthrope
The Zoanthrope is a Psychic Tyranid creature, coming in with Mastery Level 2 and a stock 3++ invulnerable save. With a single model brood (can be taken up to six models), this is the cheapest form of Synapse available to Tyranids, and the cheapest Psyker to boot. The Zoanthrope works best as a backfield unit, providing synapse , Warp charge, and potentially buffing Psychic powers to it's fellow Tyranids.
1. The Zope is fairly cheap for what it is. Fairly durable, with psychic support to assist other units.
2. At Mastery level 2, the Zope adds psychic dice to your pool at a fair price.
3. The Zope comes stock with Dominion and Warp Blast, meaning it has both a buffing power(longer synapse range), and an offensive power for when things get too close.
4. Unfortunately the Zope is slow - it has neither Fleet nor a fast movement speed. On the other hand, it relies totally on Psychic powers meaning it can always to choose to run during the shooting phase, hopefully allowing it to keep up with a more aggressive unit.
The Zope has the potential to roll for a variety of powers, which can sometimes drastically change it's effective role in a list besides baby-sitting. Rolling Catalyst or Onslaught reinforces the Zope's role as a buff/backfield support unit. Paroxysm or The Horror can give the Zope a debuff role*. Psychic Scream let's the Zope take on a more offensive role*. The latter two are not considered ideal uses of the unit, because of the inherent fickle nature of Psychic powers. Manifest, roll to hit, roll to wound(if applicable), take saves(if applicable), and getting through Deny the Witch are usually too many checks to successfully make use of the offensive psychic powers.
*Note: Usually the Zope can perform these roles best when it has access to a Tyrannocyte. If it's not in range of an enemy unit, the powers are basically useless! The Zope becomes little less than a synapse source, and a Warp charge battery. Although that is probably its best role anyway.
NOTE - Depending on terrain, the Zoanthrope, especially when taken in units of 1 to maximize warp charge contribution, is a First Blood liability if there is not enough Blocking-LOS terrain. Due to being a fairly tall model, it is actually hard to hide him in normal terrain. Thus, if First Blood is a concern, then consider getting a bastion or bunker to house him into (or to provide a BLOS piece of terrain for him).
Grade: B
Neurothrope
The Leviathan expansion book added a few new rules to Zoanthrope broods - units can go up to six models and they can upgrade to a new character if they contain three or more models known as the Neurothrope. The Neurothrope gives the brood access to a fourth power: Spirit Leech. Spirit Leech is a pure offensive power that can only be used by the Nope. If successful, it gives you more Warp charge points to use for your other Zopes to manifest Warp Blast. If you take a Neurothrope, know that you fully intend to use the brood as an offensive unit, preferably in a Tyrannocyte as the unit is generally too slow to get close enough to maximize it's psychic might.
Wilson wrote: I think we're better off when self allying isn't allowed as it prevents much more naughty spam in other armies.
I can think of exactly one example of this. Necrons spamming Annihilation barges, aka the most undercosted unit in all of 40k. Every other army has a pretty good ability to spam their scary stuff without a self ally.
>.> looking at you Jy2. 3 CCBs and 4 Annibarges?? Don't think your fellow bug lovers don't know what you're up to
It's probably the last time I can run them anyways. Who knows what the new Necron codex, coming out later this month, will bring? I'll probably have to start from scratch with them in a couple of weeks.
As for self-allies, it's looking like its getting less and less necessary, just as dual-CAD is becoming less and less of an issue. All the new codices coming out have basically been able to let you run very similar to dual-CAD builds in basically a CAD + Detachment format. With Necrons, if you really wanted, you can run 6 Annibarges by going CAD + Mephrit. Tyranids have CAD + Leviathan. In probably a few more months, self-allying probably won't even be necessary anymore.
Wilson wrote: I think we're better off when self allying isn't allowed as it prevents much more naughty spam in other armies.
I can think of exactly one example of this. Necrons spamming Annihilation barges, aka the most undercosted unit in all of 40k. Every other army has a pretty good ability to spam their scary stuff without a self ally.
>.> looking at you Jy2. 3 CCBs and 4 Annibarges?? Don't think your fellow bug lovers don't know what you're up to
It's probably the last time I can run them anyways. Who knows what the new Necron codex, coming out later this month, will bring? I'll probably have to start from scratch with them in a couple of weeks.
As for self-allies, it's looking like its getting less and less necessary, just as dual-CAD is becoming less and less of an issue. All the new codices coming out have basically been able to let you run very similar to dual-CAD builds in basically a CAD + Detachment format. With Necrons, if you really wanted, you can run 6 Annibarges by going CAD + Mephrit. Tyranids have CAD + Leviathan. In probably a few more months, self-allying probably won't even be necessary anymore.
I'm not a tourny player, but is the current norm for tournies to ban a CAD+CAD while being ok with a CAD+Levithan approuch?
Wilson wrote: I think we're better off when self allying isn't allowed as it prevents much more naughty spam in other armies.
I can think of exactly one example of this. Necrons spamming Annihilation barges, aka the most undercosted unit in all of 40k. Every other army has a pretty good ability to spam their scary stuff without a self ally.
>.> looking at you Jy2. 3 CCBs and 4 Annibarges?? Don't think your fellow bug lovers don't know what you're up to
It's probably the last time I can run them anyways. Who knows what the new Necron codex, coming out later this month, will bring? I'll probably have to start from scratch with them in a couple of weeks.
As for self-allies, it's looking like its getting less and less necessary, just as dual-CAD is becoming less and less of an issue. All the new codices coming out have basically been able to let you run very similar to dual-CAD builds in basically a CAD + Detachment format. With Necrons, if you really wanted, you can run 6 Annibarges by going CAD + Mephrit. Tyranids have CAD + Leviathan. In probably a few more months, self-allying probably won't even be necessary anymore.
I'm not a tourny player, but is the current norm for tournies to ban a CAD+CAD while being ok with a CAD+Levithan approuch?
First of all, let me give you a little history about the current format.
BAO was the 1st major GT to run the new 7th Edition rules. Back then, there was no detachments like they have now. The only concern was dual-CAD. As such, it was easy to remedy. Just ban dual-CAD and ally for self-allies for those armies that can't ally and don't have formations.
Fast forward 8-9 months later and a lot has changed. There's been about 7-8 new army updates coming out ever since and each can take a special detachment which is basically similar to another CAD. There is also a lot of formations to come out since then.
Now, the tournament standards have changed. Now, most major tournaments are like this - maximum of 2 detachments with a limit of 0-1 on each. You have:
You can run any of the 2 combos above. You just can't run more than 2 of them because of the 0-1 limit. Thus, you can run CAD + Leviathan, but you can't run dual-CAD or dual-Leviathan detachments. You can't run 2 Skyblight formations or 2 Living Artillery formations, but you can run Skyblight + LAN. Basically, each detachment needs to be unique and you can only run 2 detachments. That is the only requirement nowadays.
So it's been a while since we discussed 'NIds-Daemons lists (DaemBugs is my favored term), and I can't get the ideas outta my head. I know a lot of tourneys don't allow CtA allies, but well maybe one can hope. They are my two favorite armies so it seems natural to want to run the two together. I also can't imagine two forces who really wouldn't give less of a damn who they fight with one way or the other. As such, I like it. I've been running one list with two Flyrants, Fatey, ScreamerStar, and 16 Hounds + Khorne Herald (list here) to decent success. 4-0 so far, not against top-tier lists, but respectable ones nonetheless. I've been trying to work a 3rd Flyrant in the list (cause why not?) and I posted it to the Army List forum. It was thoroughly trounced, not without reason, by one very vocal critic. I am hoping to bring it to the knowledgeable and helpful people of the Tyranid thread for a second opinion. New thread is here for those interested in the critique. Without further adieu, here is the DaemoBug list that I think could be strong:
Wilson wrote: I think we're better off when self allying isn't allowed as it prevents much more naughty spam in other armies.
I can think of exactly one example of this. Necrons spamming Annihilation barges, aka the most undercosted unit in all of 40k. Every other army has a pretty good ability to spam their scary stuff without a self ally.
>.> looking at you Jy2. 3 CCBs and 4 Annibarges?? Don't think your fellow bug lovers don't know what you're up to
It's probably the last time I can run them anyways. Who knows what the new Necron codex, coming out later this month, will bring? I'll probably have to start from scratch with them in a couple of weeks.
As for self-allies, it's looking like its getting less and less necessary, just as dual-CAD is becoming less and less of an issue. All the new codices coming out have basically been able to let you run very similar to dual-CAD builds in basically a CAD + Detachment format. With Necrons, if you really wanted, you can run 6 Annibarges by going CAD + Mephrit. Tyranids have CAD + Leviathan. In probably a few more months, self-allying probably won't even be necessary anymore.
I'm not a tourny player, but is the current norm for tournies to ban a CAD+CAD while being ok with a CAD+Levithan approuch?
First of all, let me give you a little history about the current format.
BAO was the 1st major GT to run the new 7th Edition rules. Back then, there was no detachments like they have now. The only concern was dual-CAD. As such, it was easy to remedy. Just ban dual-CAD and ally for self-allies for those armies that can't ally and don't have formations.
Fast forward 8-9 months later and a lot has changed. There's been about 7-8 new army updates coming out ever since and each can take a special detachment which is basically similar to another CAD. There is also a lot of formations to come out since then.
Now, the tournament standards have changed. Now, most major tournaments are like this - maximum of 2 detachments with a limit of 0-1 on each. You have:
You can run any of the 2 combos above. You just can't run more than 2 of them because of the 0-1 limit. Thus, you can run CAD + Leviathan, but you can't run dual-CAD or dual-Leviathan detachments. You can't run 2 Skyblight formations or 2 Living Artillery formations, but you can run Skyblight + LAN. Basically, each detachment needs to be unique and you can only run 2 detachments. That is the only requirement nowadays.
seems kinda stupid. the end result is they're screwing the armies that don't have unique detachments yet,
Well when it was implemented they were just trying to level the playing field for armies that didn't have supplements or formations to pseudo self ally, as I understand it. The first CAD-like detachments came out with the SW release (and maybe orks?), but the abuses weren't really as obvious until the Dark Eldar release, and to a greater extent, Tyranids. Still can't say I have anything against a Pentyrant list though
BrianDavion wrote: seems kinda stupid. the end result is they're screwing the armies that don't have unique detachments yet,
Stupid indeed, because they were well aware of Codex specific Detachments at the time of BAO, and initially wrote the army comp rules "0-1 CAD or Codex Specific Detachment". It wasn't until later that they retconned it so that you could take a CAD and a Codex specific detachment. I ran a tourney right after BAO, and copied their army comp rules from when a Codex Specific counted as a CAD, and had several attendees point it out to me when BAO changed to allow a codex specific alongside a CAD, and I updated our army Comp Rules to match. I didn't believe it, because it opened the door to spammier lists, and the stated reason to restrict the number of CADs was to reduce spam and promote fun games, and that logic completely falls apart with the current army comp rules. (22 Venoms, 5 Flyrants, or 3 Flyrants + 3 Crones + 3 Heldrakes)
They hinted at running an exit poll about this, but it would have made sense if they had done it with the poll about invisibility, and most likely they are going to have to have trouble selling out before they make any changes to the Army Comp that they developed at the very start of 7th edition, and that the core team seems happy with. I would like to see the results of a poll. I've run an informal one at my last Tourney. Most people think Codex specific detachments should count as a CAD and should be limited to 0-1. A few people think that there should be unlimited CADS. 0 people think that it should be 2 detachments, but allow a CAD alongside a Codex specific detachment. I would expect a poll of LVO attendees to return very similar results, and even if it didn't, I would like to see it.
Our Tourney next week is LVO format. I don't TO the march tourney (I think the TO is using Da Boyz army comp rules), but I will run a formal poll at it to decide army comp rules for the May tourney, because I'm certain we would have trouble maintaining attendance if we stuck with the LVO rules.
I have a bit of a list conundrum if anyone has advice. There is a local team tournament coming up on the 31st that I will be attending with my brother. The tournament will be at 2000 points (1000 per player) and the only composition restrictions present as of this writing are no super heavy units, models must be WYSIWYG, and all lists must be battle-forged. I suspect things will be limited to 1 detachment per player as well, but that hasn't been set in stone yet. So far, I've heard of two Blood Angel + Eldar teams, a Space Wolves + IG/AM team, and a Dark Eldar + either Inquisition or more Dark Eldar team.
Detachment 2: Iyandan (brother)
HQ: Spirit Seer with Wraithforge Stone (restores a wound to a friendly Eldar MC on a 3+)
TROOPS: 5x Dire Avengers
TROOPS: 5x Dire Avengers
DT: 1x Wave Serpent with Twin-linked Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon, Holofields
DT: 1x Wave Serpent with Twin-linked Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon, Holofields
HEAVY: 1x Wraithknight
HEAVY: 1x Wraithknight
The main thing I am unsure of with my list is the Fighter Ace and Regeneration on the Tyrant. My normal inclination is bodies over upgrades, but in this situation his survivability is highly important given the Tyrant is the only form of synapse in the list (thought admittedly this only affects the Gargoyles)... I really would like to keep the formation for the respawning objective secure gargoyles though, as I suspect the mission set will probably incorporate maelstrom missions in some manner and if nothing else they should work well with the Eldar half (blinding tarpit for Wraithknights, screen for Serpents).
astro_nomicon wrote: So it's been a while since we discussed 'NIds-Daemons lists (DaemBugs is my favored term), and I can't get the ideas outta my head. I know a lot of tourneys don't allow CtA allies, but well maybe one can hope. They are my two favorite armies so it seems natural to want to run the two together. I also can't imagine two forces who really wouldn't give less of a damn who they fight with one way or the other. As such, I like it. I've been running one list with two Flyrants, Fatey, ScreamerStar, and 16 Hounds + Khorne Herald (list here) to decent success. 4-0 so far, not against top-tier lists, but respectable ones nonetheless. I've been trying to work a 3rd Flyrant in the list (cause why not?) and I posted it to the Army List forum. It was thoroughly trounced, not without reason, by one very vocal critic. I am hoping to bring it to the knowledgeable and helpful people of the Tyranid thread for a second opinion. New thread is here for those interested in the critique. Without further adieu, here is the DaemoBug list that I think could be strong:
It's a good list, but why no malanthrope? Is it because you don't own one or is FW not allowed? If FW is allowed, then I highly recommend swapping out the Vope+Zope for the Mope. Even though you lose 1 WC, you also have 1 less KP, less of a First Blood liability and a much more resilient unit than the 2 other units combined.
Personally, If I were to do Daemonids, I'd go with a flying circus:
seems kinda stupid. the end result is they're screwing the armies that don't have unique detachments yet,
But it's the future of 40K. You can't go backwards. You need to plan for the future and this is it. At least for the armies without unique detachments yet, there is always self-allying or bringing in Imperial Knight allies (whether Come the Apocalypse or not).
5 x 10 man Veteran squads with 3 meltaguns, and Tauroxs
3 x Deathstrikes!
If you're running a flyrant-heavy list, then you've got this. Ground guards have no answers for flyers.
Strat_N8 wrote: I have a bit of a list conundrum if anyone has advice. There is a local team tournament coming up on the 31st that I will be attending with my brother. The tournament will be at 2000 points (1000 per player) and the only composition restrictions present as of this writing are no super heavy units, models must be WYSIWYG, and all lists must be battle-forged. I suspect things will be limited to 1 detachment per player as well, but that hasn't been set in stone yet. So far, I've heard of two Blood Angel + Eldar teams, a Space Wolves + IG/AM team, and a Dark Eldar + either Inquisition or more Dark Eldar team.
Detachment 2: Iyandan (brother)
HQ: Spirit Seer with Wraithforge Stone (restores a wound to a friendly Eldar MC on a 3+)
TROOPS: 5x Dire Avengers
TROOPS: 5x Dire Avengers
DT: 1x Wave Serpent with Twin-linked Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon, Holofields
DT: 1x Wave Serpent with Twin-linked Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon, Holofields
HEAVY: 1x Wraithknight
HEAVY: 1x Wraithknight
The main thing I am unsure of with my list is the Fighter Ace and Regeneration on the Tyrant. My normal inclination is bodies over upgrades, but in this situation his survivability is highly important given the Tyrant is the only form of synapse in the list (thought admittedly this only affects the Gargoyles)... I really would like to keep the formation for the respawning objective secure gargoyles though, as I suspect the mission set will probably incorporate maelstrom missions in some manner and if nothing else they should work well with the Eldar half (blinding tarpit for Wraithknights, screen for Serpents).
Honestly, I wouldn't recommend Skyblight by itself. Synapse is a big crutch in this type of list. It really falls apart once your opponent kills your flyrant and with 2K of firepower, that really isn't all that hard to do.
Want to be mean? Just run Leviathan with 3 flyrants, malanthrope + some troops and you're set.
Speedy rules question for the swarm which came up in a game last night. We were discussing Hierophant upgrades and the transport option came up. Using it as an assault unit carrier was discussed and I mentioned that an interesting use for it is to carry a Venomthrope and benefit from a huge Shrouding bubble. This raised some eyebrows so we spent some time hunting for the rules that enable this to happen and came up with nothing.
Can someone point me to the right passage(s)/book(s) for this?
Embarking
--SNIP--
If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.
astro_nomicon wrote: So it's been a while since we discussed 'NIds-Daemons lists (DaemBugs is my favored term), and I can't get the ideas outta my head. I know a lot of tourneys don't allow CtA allies, but well maybe one can hope. They are my two favorite armies so it seems natural to want to run the two together. I also can't imagine two forces who really wouldn't give less of a damn who they fight with one way or the other. As such, I like it. I've been running one list with two Flyrants, Fatey, ScreamerStar, and 16 Hounds + Khorne Herald (list here) to decent success. 4-0 so far, not against top-tier lists, but respectable ones nonetheless. I've been trying to work a 3rd Flyrant in the list (cause why not?) and I posted it to the Army List forum. It was thoroughly trounced, not without reason, by one very vocal critic. I am hoping to bring it to the knowledgeable and helpful people of the Tyranid thread for a second opinion. New thread is here for those interested in the critique. Without further adieu, here is the DaemoBug list that I think could be strong:
It's a good list, but why no malanthrope? Is it because you don't own one or is FW not allowed? If FW is allowed, then I highly recommend swapping out the Vope+Zope for the Mope. Even though you lose 1 WC, you also have 1 less KP, less of a First Blood liability and a much more resilient unit than the 2 other units combined.
Personally, If I were to do Daemonids, I'd go with a flying circus:
Be'lakor
Lord of Change - Lvl 3, 1x Exalted, 1x Greater
3x Nurglings
3x Nurglings
Daemon Prince - Tzeentch, 3+, Wings, Lvl 2
Thanks. Yeah I do not own a malanthrope at the moment. I just started back getting my bugs into shape from 5th edition nids (hooray 50 genestealers on the shelf!) I might try my hand at converting one before too long. Can't really afford FW price tags right now. That list looks solid but it's even worse at malestrom than mine (ostensibly) and I already feel a bit shaky on that front with my list. I also have a hard time taking Tzeentch Princes over Nurgle Princes. Would you be summoning with the LoC and DP? Or are you shooting for Iron Arm/Endurance/Invis/Shrouding with the DP? I'm also not a huge fan of the Prince being ML2, and lacking rewards, but eh whacha gonna do?
I've run this at 2 GT's and it lost once to me being an idiot and once to abhorent dice rolls.
Flyrant - 230
Dual Devourer
Flyrant - 230
Dual Devourer
Venomthrope - 45
2xZoanthrope - 100
2x3 DS Rippers - 90
2xCrone - 310
Lord of Change - 255
Lvl 3
2x11 Horrors - 198
4 Screamers - 100
Tzeentch DP - 285
Wings, Level 3
It has lots of mobility, lots of WC and lots of summoning points. The sheer number of FMC's means you handle other FMC's/Flyers relatively well and overall it allows you to summon and dominate on Maelstrom.
That said I'm shifting to a 3 Tyrant build which drops the screamers and 1 horror unit and then changing the DS rippers into mucolids. Then seeing if I have points for a Malethrope instead of a venomthrope.
Sinful Hero wrote: Might want to simplify those point costs- it may be a little too descriptive for dakkadakka.
But it looks like you shouldn't have too much trouble to me with 3 Flyrants.
Edited the points cost, good catch. I just copied and pasted from the list document.
What would be your target priority? I'm thinking take out the Deathstrikes before they can fire, but then I've got Pask and his Punisher to worry about.
Sinful Hero wrote: Might want to simplify those point costs- it may be a little too descriptive for dakkadakka.
But it looks like you shouldn't have too much trouble to me with 3 Flyrants.
Edited the points cost, good catch. I just copied and pasted from the list document.
What would be your target priority? I'm thinking take out the Deathstrikes before they can fire, but then I've got Pask and his Punisher to worry about.
Personally, if it shoots a template, I wouldn't worry about it until you take everything else out. Maybe take out the Tauroxes? Jy2 or ther other more experienced players could probably give you better advice on that.
Sinful Hero wrote: Might want to simplify those point costs- it may be a little too descriptive for dakkadakka.
But it looks like you shouldn't have too much trouble to me with 3 Flyrants.
Edited the points cost, good catch. I just copied and pasted from the list document.
What would be your target priority? I'm thinking take out the Deathstrikes before they can fire, but then I've got Pask and his Punisher to worry about.
Personally, if it shoots a template, I wouldn't worry about it until you take everything else out. Maybe take out the Tauroxes? Jy2 or ther other more experienced players could probably give you better advice on that.
It shoots a one shot, str 10 ap1 apocalyptic blast, but it can't fire first turn, then after that it can fire on a 4+, but you get +1 to that roll for every turn it didn't move and -1 for every weapon destroyed result.
But then again opening up the Tauroxs will give my Mawlocs something to do!
I wouldn't be that worried about the Deathstrikes even if it can hit your Flyrants when they're in the air (which I'm not sure it can). It won't ID any of your big bugs except maybe the Malanthrope, and it should be getting a 2+ cover save. It'll put some hurt on the gargoyles, but just place them in cover and chain a few back to the Mope.
Pask should be your first priority. He's about the only thing that's threatening to the Flyrants. If he screws up and deploys Pask within EGrub range, you're golden. If not, you might wanna start opening up Tauroxes so your turn 2 arrivals can do work on the contents. Then go after Pask on turn 2 where you should be able to Egrub him as well as get side or rear armor.
Sentry pylons are horrific and the fact I can't jink against them is brutal. How do I deal with them??? I'd need two turns of shooting at them with my 3 Flyrants to statistically finish them - that's mental.
But if I focus on the pylons then I'm ignoring the 15 wraiths Floating around the board.
I love this necron list. HATE the fact I have to play it though :[
It depends on what you are playing with Wilson. Mostly you can ignore it with FMCs Swooping. Ground based units will suffer. Try to use cover and venom/malanthropes.
Wilson wrote: Sentry pylons are horrific and the fact I can't jink against them is brutal. How do I deal with them??? I'd need two turns of shooting at them with my 3 Flyrants to statistically finish them - that's mental.
We always play sentry pylon's Death Ray as a Beam. Beams can't hit Swooping FMC's. So keep to the Sky. Hunt down the Anhillation barges, and then blow up the Wraiths and jetbikes. A low model count list with a Barbed heirodule and 2-3 flyrants will make mincemeat of that list.
Also, AFAIK Sentry Pylons don't ignore cover, so Jink Away, and keep everything on the ground in the range of a shrouded giver.
ETA: I looked in the IA:Apoc ver 3 book to make sure my buddy doesn't play them wrong, and I see nothing at all about ignoring cover or Jink.
astro_nomicon wrote: I wouldn't be that worried about the Deathstrikes even if it can hit your Flyrants when they're in the air (which I'm not sure it can). It won't ID any of your big bugs except maybe the Malanthrope, and it should be getting a 2+ cover save. It'll put some hurt on the gargoyles, but just place them in cover and chain a few back to the Mope.
Pask should be your first priority. He's about the only thing that's threatening to the Flyrants. If he screws up and deploys Pask within EGrub range, you're golden. If not, you might wanna start opening up Tauroxes so your turn 2 arrivals can do work on the contents. Then go after Pask on turn 2 where you should be able to Egrub him as well as get side or rear armor.
Yeah it can't hit me once I'm in the air, which makes it better as it can't shoot first turn.
It will ignore cover though, but I think you are right, Pask has to be my first priority. Hammer and Anvil Deployment should help me. Not many places to hide from Hive Tyrants in that Deployment.
Wilson wrote: Sentry pylons are horrific and the fact I can't jink against them is brutal. How do I deal with them??? I'd need two turns of shooting at them with my 3 Flyrants to statistically finish them - that's mental.
We always play sentry pylon's Death Ray as a Beam. Beams can't hit Swooping FMC's. So keep to the Sky. Hunt down the Anhillation barges, and then blow up the Wraiths and jetbikes. A low model count list with a Barbed heirodule and 2-3 flyrants will make mincemeat of that list.
Also, AFAIK Sentry Pylons don't ignore cover, so Jink Away, and keep everything on the ground in the range of a shrouded giver.
ETA: I looked in the IA:Apoc ver 3 book to make sure my buddy doesn't play them wrong, and I see nothing at all about ignoring cover or Jink.
Obyron and the overlord go with the pylons and teleport around the board so I cannot ignore them and the TO has faq'd it that a death ray hits everything ( expect flyers) so I cannot ignore them.
I have essentially the same list as Eldercaveman but with 2 Mawloc's, hive crone , dakkafex in pod, Dima in pod, malanthrope, Mucolids, rippers, 3 Flyrants.
Wilson wrote: Sentry pylons are horrific and the fact I can't jink against them is brutal. How do I deal with them??? I'd need two turns of shooting at them with my 3 Flyrants to statistically finish them - that's mental.
We always play sentry pylon's Death Ray as a Beam. Beams can't hit Swooping FMC's. So keep to the Sky. Hunt down the Anhillation barges, and then blow up the Wraiths and jetbikes. A low model count list with a Barbed heirodule and 2-3 flyrants will make mincemeat of that list.
Also, AFAIK Sentry Pylons don't ignore cover, so Jink Away, and keep everything on the ground in the range of a shrouded giver.
ETA: I looked in the IA:Apoc ver 3 book to make sure my buddy doesn't play them wrong, and I see nothing at all about ignoring cover or Jink.
Obyron and the overlord go with the pylons and teleport around the board so I cannot ignore them and the TO has faq'd it that a death ray hits everything ( expect flyers) so I cannot ignore them.
I have essentially the same list as Eldercaveman but with 2 Mawloc's, hive crone , dakkafex in pod, Dima in pod, malanthrope, Mucolids, rippers, 3 Flyrants.
1st you need to talk to your TO, because things shouldn't hit FMCs that can't hit fliers.
2nd I hate that this is the case, but a Barbed Heirodule is a Tyranid answer to Necrons in so many, many different ways. It is so hard to beat necrons without a Barbed heirodule, and it would absolutely obliterate that pylon star.
3rd I'm not sure about IC's joining pylons. Because pylons can't be locked in Combat but IC's obviously can, so if you ever manage to get an assault off on the pylons, you will separate them from the IC's, and thus take away his teleport trick, and you should try to get a TO ruling on this. Also, while my RAW interpretation is that only Obyron must be able to move to teleport, you might dig into this a bit, because the pylons are immobile.
4th Remember that since the Pylons are Artillery, the IC's can't LOS wounds to them. So a single Warp Lance from a Flyrant will take out one of the IC's. He might LOS from one IC to the other, but make him take those 3++ invuls. If you want to tailor, you could throw some zoeys in a pod instead of the Dimacharon.
Wilson wrote: Sentry pylons are horrific and the fact I can't jink against them is brutal. How do I deal with them??? I'd need two turns of shooting at them with my 3 Flyrants to statistically finish them - that's mental.
We always play sentry pylon's Death Ray as a Beam. Beams can't hit Swooping FMC's. So keep to the Sky. Hunt down the Anhillation barges, and then blow up the Wraiths and jetbikes. A low model count list with a Barbed heirodule and 2-3 flyrants will make mincemeat of that list.
Also, AFAIK Sentry Pylons don't ignore cover, so Jink Away, and keep everything on the ground in the range of a shrouded giver.
ETA: I looked in the IA:Apoc ver 3 book to make sure my buddy doesn't play them wrong, and I see nothing at all about ignoring cover or Jink.
Obyron and the overlord go with the pylons and teleport around the board so I cannot ignore them and the TO has faq'd it that a death ray hits everything ( expect flyers) so I cannot ignore them.
I have essentially the same list as Eldercaveman but with 2 Mawloc's, hive crone , dakkafex in pod, Dima in pod, malanthrope, Mucolids, rippers, 3 Flyrants.
1st you need to talk to your TO, because things shouldn't hit FMCs that can't hit fliers.
I'd agree here, and I'm having a dig through the FAQ now to look at this my self.
2nd I hate that this is the case, but a Barbed Heirodule is a Tyranid answer to Necrons in so many, many different ways. It is so hard to beat necrons without a Barbed heirodule, and it would absolutely obliterate that pylon star.
Barbed Heirodule's aren't allowed in with the comp.
3rd I'm not sure about IC's joining pylons. Because pylons can't be locked in Combat but IC's obviously can, so if you ever manage to get an assault off on the pylons, you will separate them from the IC's, and thus take away his teleport trick, and you should try to get a TO ruling on this. Also, while my RAW interpretation is that only Obyron must be able to move to teleport, you might dig into this a bit, because the pylons are immobile.
I thought the trick with the PylonStar wasn't so much jumping it around, but deep striking it in and messing things up with it? Getting into combat with it would be a good counter to be fair. Chances are you'll take out the rest of the models, and then sweep it off the board.
4th Remember that since the Pylons are Artillery, the IC's can't LOS wounds to them. So a single Warp Lance from a Flyrant will take out one of the IC's. He might LOS from one IC to the other, but make him take those 3++ invuls. If you want to tailor, you could throw some zoeys in a pod instead of the Dimacharon.
Again I have to agree here, if he is jumping it around the board, throw those Devourer's on it and get rid of the IC's.
Edit: Found the relevant FAQ rulings,
From the main 40kGT FAQ's
A template or blast shooting attack with Skyfire can hit a Swooping FMC. If the blast would scatter on a
ground unit, models on the ground under the template are hit normally as well.
From the Additional Caledonian FAQ's
A Doom Scythe’s Death Ray and the Sentry Pylon’s Focused Death Ray may hit Swooping
FMC’s like other Blast/Template weapons. However the ray’s initial point may only target
the Swooping FMC if it is also using the Skyfire rule.
tag8833 wrote: ETA: I looked in the IA:Apoc ver 3 book to make sure my buddy doesn't play them wrong, and I see nothing at all about ignoring cover or Jink.
You're only allowed to declare Jink when targeted.
FDRs don't target the unit so you never have the rules opportunity to declare Jink.
A template or blast shooting attack with Skyfire can hit a Swooping FMC. If the blast would scatter on a
ground unit, models on the ground under the template are hit normally as well.
From the Additional Caledonian FAQ's
A Doom Scythe’s Death Ray and the Sentry Pylon’s Focused Death Ray may hit Swooping
FMC’s like other Blast/Template weapons. However the ray’s initial point may only target
the Swooping FMC if it is also using the Skyfire rule.
Those rulings are quite significant. With those rulings and Comp in place you are essentially playing a different game than we are. Look around for what extreme rulings they have that buff some tyranid unit into absurdity. Also, if they are being so literal with blasts, consider Living Artillery Node. Without the LVO nerf to Blasts and terrain, it is quite powerful. Grab yourself some gargoyles, and put the Dimacharon on the table. Definitely add a 2nd Malanthrope.
I could tailor a list to beat that necron list even with those FAQ's and army comp in place, but that list would be unbalanced and perform poorly against other opponents. Here is an example:
tag8833 wrote: ETA: I looked in the IA:Apoc ver 3 book to make sure my buddy doesn't play them wrong, and I see nothing at all about ignoring cover or Jink.
You're only allowed to declare Jink when targeted.
FDRs don't target the unit so you never have the rules opportunity to declare Jink.
How do you arrive at this interpretation? You draw 2 points that don't scatter. So everything under the line is explicitly targeted. Just like everything under a Flame template is targetted. That was the basis for the absurd (from a realism point of view) argument over invisibility creating a magical wall that prevents you from placing flame templates on units near them.
A template or blast shooting attack with Skyfire can hit a Swooping FMC. If the blast would scatter on a
ground unit, models on the ground under the template are hit normally as well.
From the Additional Caledonian FAQ's
A Doom Scythe’s Death Ray and the Sentry Pylon’s Focused Death Ray may hit Swooping
FMC’s like other Blast/Template weapons. However the ray’s initial point may only target
the Swooping FMC if it is also using the Skyfire rule.
Those rulings are quite significant. With those rulings and Comp in place you are essentially playing a different game than we are. Look around for what extreme rulings they have that buff some tyranid unit into absurdity. Also, if they are being so literal with blasts, consider Living Artillery Node. Without the LVO nerf to Blasts and terrain, it is quite powerful. Grab yourself some gargoyles, and put the Dimacharon on the table. Definitely add a 2nd Malanthrope.
I could tailor a list to beat that necron list even with those FAQ's and army comp in place, but that list would be unbalanced and perform poorly against other opponents. Here is an example:
tag8833 wrote: ETA: I looked in the IA:Apoc ver 3 book to make sure my buddy doesn't play them wrong, and I see nothing at all about ignoring cover or Jink.
You're only allowed to declare Jink when targeted.
FDRs don't target the unit so you never have the rules opportunity to declare Jink.
How do you arrive at this interpretation? You draw 2 points that don't scatter. So everything under the line is explicitly targeted. Just like everything under a Flame template is targetted. That was the basis for the absurd (from a realism point of view) argument over invisibility creating a magical wall that prevents you from placing flame templates on units near them.
Tailoring a list to beat anything is easy. but list submission was nearly a month ago!
So I've been cycling my way through the various formations, and now my eyes are set on the Skytyrant formation. Here's a Couple of questions I wanted to bring before the group, to see who has used the bugger.
1. What do you outfit the Tyrant with?
2. How many Gargoyles do you like to bring?
For number one, the seemingly obvious choices are the Reaper of Obliterax and EGrubs as a HP stripper/overwatch for Knights. But, the other two upgrades I see being worth it are Adrenal Glands for strength 8 on the charge, and the Maw-Calws potentially. Once that Flyrant kills a model with the Claws, the whole unit gets Preferred enemy vs a Codex, which is pretty darn cool and very useful for the Gargoyles attached. At a low cost it seems worth it, but it also seems to be not a big deal to cut it out if points are scarce. Right now I think the "default" Skytyrant for me is Wings, AGlands, EGrubs and the Reaper, with the Maw claws sneaking in if I can spare the points. What do you guys like to run them with?
Secondly, the number of Gargoyles... I own 40 of the suckers, but I was thinking that 30 would be a pretty good number without making the unit too expensive. I am tempted to up the ante to 40, but that would requite I do a little more painting... I think 30 will be good for now though.
So, who here has used the Skytyrant, and how did you kit it out?
jifel wrote: So I've been cycling my way through the various formations, and now my eyes are set on the Skytyrant formation. Here's a Couple of questions I wanted to bring before the group, to see who has used the bugger.
1. What do you outfit the Tyrant with?
2. How many Gargoyles do you like to bring?
For number one, the seemingly obvious choices are the Reaper of Obliterax and EGrubs as a HP stripper/overwatch for Knights. But, the other two upgrades I see being worth it are Adrenal Glands for strength 8 on the charge, and the Maw-Calws potentially. Once that Flyrant kills a model with the Claws, the whole unit gets Preferred enemy vs a Codex, which is pretty darn cool and very useful for the Gargoyles attached. At a low cost it seems worth it, but it also seems to be not a big deal to cut it out if points are scarce. Right now I think the "default" Skytyrant for me is Wings, AGlands, EGrubs and the Reaper, with the Maw claws sneaking in if I can spare the points. What do you guys like to run them with?
Secondly, the number of Gargoyles... I own 40 of the suckers, but I was thinking that 30 would be a pretty good number without making the unit too expensive. I am tempted to up the ante to 40, but that would requite I do a little more painting... I think 30 will be good for now though.
So, who here has used the Skytyrant, and how did you kit it out?
This mostly theory, but I think the trade off is MawClaws, or the Reaper (Go big, or save points) Without the Mawclaws I think you really want to plump for Ancient enemy (?) the one that give Prefered Enemy. I personally lean towards Toxic, MawClaws Scything, Thorax Hive...but a PE Reaper Tyrant is dead killy. I lean heavily towards spending as few points as I can, so I expect to use x20 Gargoyles (plus I only own 20 ) I don't think more than 30 is a good use of points though.
I really like SkyTyrant, it gives us the fast moving CC beast we have been missing
What is a decent TAC loadout for shrikes? I'm thinking Rending Claws and a Deathspitter keeps their cost down while letting them threaten several unit types. They can't crack really tough nuts, but they can take on everything in between.
jifel wrote: So I've been cycling my way through the various formations, and now my eyes are set on the Skytyrant formation. Here's a Couple of questions I wanted to bring before the group, to see who has used the bugger.
1. What do you outfit the Tyrant with? 2. How many Gargoyles do you like to bring?
For number one, the seemingly obvious choices are the Reaper of Obliterax and EGrubs as a HP stripper/overwatch for Knights. But, the other two upgrades I see being worth it are Adrenal Glands for strength 8 on the charge, and the Maw-Calws potentially. Once that Flyrant kills a model with the Claws, the whole unit gets Preferred enemy vs a Codex, which is pretty darn cool and very useful for the Gargoyles attached. At a low cost it seems worth it, but it also seems to be not a big deal to cut it out if points are scarce. Right now I think the "default" Skytyrant for me is Wings, AGlands, EGrubs and the Reaper, with the Maw claws sneaking in if I can spare the points. What do you guys like to run them with?
Secondly, the number of Gargoyles... I own 40 of the suckers, but I was thinking that 30 would be a pretty good number without making the unit too expensive. I am tempted to up the ante to 40, but that would requite I do a little more painting... I think 30 will be good for now though.
So, who here has used the Skytyrant, and how did you kit it out?
Here's a little rundown.
Guns: E. Grubs: A+. Mandatory, you don't want a dreadnought stopping your skytyrant from doing what it is meant to do. Other Thorax Weapon: D. You should be taking E.Grubs unless you are specifically list tailoring. Heavy Venom Cannon: C-. This isn't a shooty deathstar. Stranglethorn Cannon: C-. This isn't a shooty deathstar. TL Deathspitter: F. TL Devourer: C. Losing one attack is not worth it.
Tyrant Upgrades. Indescribably Horror: D. Everything you care about is fearless. Prehensile Pincer: D. What were they thinking when they added tails? Old Adversary: A+. The main problem with the Tyrant as a Melee deathstar is not enough hits. Against most low Toughness things the allows you to reroll wounds as well eliminating the need and consequences of Toxin Sacs.
Bio Artifacts: Maw Claws: C. Sounds good, but impossible to reliably take advantage of it. Your 1st combat is usually going to be your biggest, and so you want the BS+LW or RoO, then in later combats when you can afford an offensive penalty, you also don't need preferred enemy on your gargoyles anymore. Miasma Cannon: D. You need all of your attacks. No Guns. Also you don't want to risk killing yourself out of charge range. Reaper of Obliterax: A-. Shred is nice, but if you have old adversary you are already reaping the primary benefit of it, and it only really helps you with high T MC's where the +1 Strength is actually a negative. The Ymgarl Factor: C+. This is the best place to put it, but it costs too much.
Biomorphs: Acid Blood: C-. Too Expensive. Adrenal Glands: B-. Fleet would be awesome, but unfortunately adding it to the gargoyles is not worth it. +1 Strength doesn't really matter except against vehicles, and skytyrant is not for killing vehicles. Regen: B+. Too expensive, however it is highly likely that you get 1 wound back per game. Put your Tyrant out front, and Jink for a 2+, and take wounds on that 2+ until you fail one, then start LOSing to the Gargoyles. Toxin Sacs: D. This is worse than OA or Shred vs almost everything. Only exception is a high toughness MC with Eternal Warrior like a GUO with endurance.
CC Weapons: BS: B-. Initiative 5 is not high enough. BS + LW: A. ID on 6's is what you need when you run into multi wound things. RCs: D. There is literally no situation where this matters. STs. A. An extra attack is important, and they are free.
My favorite builds Are Tyrant (Wings, BS + LW, E.Grubs, Old Adversary, Scything Talons) with 20-30 Gargoyles or Tyrant (Wings, RoO, E.Grubs, Old Adversary, Scything Talons) with 30 Gargoyles or Tyrant (Wings, RoO, E.Grubs, Old Adversary, Scything Talons, Regen) with 20-30 Gargoyles
Here is a rundown vs a Wraith Knight: Notice how the performance gets better with OA and worse with Adrenal Glands. I know how I would spend 15 points.
Here is a rundown vs an Imperial Knight
*Bonus are the bonus hull points you will do on average due to pens with an explodes result. So Adrenal Glands do give you a bonus there, but most cases you should take the 1.6 extra hull point you get for E.Grubs Wall of Death, and in that case you are still better off smashing.
I'll be happy to run math for other wargear options and matchups for you if you want.
Hey I'm just starting my own Tyranid swarm and I had a few questions regarding things. How do they fare against daemons/orks? My friend is a daemon phenom and I haven't had too much luck with any other army. Same with my other friend, he plays Orks. More questions to follow as they become apparent to me.
Gamerely wrote: Hey I'm just starting my own Tyranid swarm and I had a few questions regarding things. How do they fare against daemons/orks? My friend is a daemon phenom and I haven't had too much luck with any other army. Same with my other friend, he plays Orks. More questions to follow as they become apparent to me.
Tyranids are actually remarkably good against both Daemons and Orks. If those are your problem armies, Nids can make those problems go away!
@tag8833:
I appreciate the writeup, and I must agree with you on almost all of your points. The only one I diagree with you on is the Adrenal Glands. When the Reaper is taken, I feel like they become an A+ as it gives a very important Strength 8, that magical threshold where it will instant kill most Characters, and also glances most Vehicles on a 2+, which coincidentally makes it so that a Skytyrant now averages more than 3 glances against rear Armor 10. Useful I would think!
Right now, my current leaning is:
Flyrant with Reaper, AGlands, EGrubs, and Old Adversary with 25 Gargoyles.
I know that the OA and Reaper is half redundant, but I still like the reroll 1s to hit to make me feel like the Scything Talons actually matter...
I appreciate the writeup, and I must agree with you on almost all of your points. The only one I diagree with you on is the Adrenal Glands. When the Reaper is taken, I feel like they become an A+ as it gives a very important Strength 8, that magical threshold where it will instant kill most Characters, and also glances most Vehicles on a 2+, which coincidentally makes it so that a Skytyrant now averages more than 3 glances against rear Armor 10. Useful I would think!
Right now, my current leaning is: Flyrant with Reaper, AGlands, EGrubs, and Old Adversary with 25 Gargoyles.
I know that the OA and Reaper is half redundant, but I still like the reroll 1s to hit to make me feel like the Scything Talons actually matter...
You make a Compelling point. So I looked at a few things. First here is what it looks like vs a T4 model:
Except for the number of IDs, the performance for OA, BS+LW is exactly the same as the performance for OA, RoO, AG. So if you've got a multiwound T4 character with a good invul, or many multiwound T4 models like Warriors, then you would indeed want to spend the points.
Now lets look at what happens when you charge a Vehicle. *Note HOW is not included*
AV 10
That is a pretty significant advantage, But with E.Grubs, I'm still going to take out most AV 12 with my cheaper version.
AV 11
If it makes the charge it can kill an Annihilation barge in one round of combat, which is pretty useful.
AV 12
Most AV12 are walkers, and letting them charge into the Wall of Death is better than charging them, but if you do have to you have even odds of killing it with your build. Also useful vs Baneblades.
AV 13
Don't charge Gorkanaunts or CCBs, well maybe CCBs, but you should let the Gargoyles do the damage.
AV 14
Not going to do much vs Land Raiders, but it does more than I expected.
We are talking about 40 points more on a model that is almost certainly going to die before the end of the game. Will it justify those points? If you get the charge on a Group of Raveners or an Annihilation Barge, then the answer is yes. I'm not completely convinced, but I also gave it a short shift in my initial review.
ETA: It does make me wonder. 40 Points is the same cost as the Ymgarl Factor... Nope, still not worth it unless you are mainly killing Space marines.
Sinful Hero wrote: What is a decent TAC loadout for shrikes? I'm thinking Rending Claws and a Deathspitter keeps their cost down while letting them threaten several unit types. They can't crack really tough nuts, but they can take on everything in between.
Rending Claws are a very good choice. I consider Deathspitters optional, plain Devourers do pretty dang well. One alternative build I really like is Flesh Hooks, and Scything Talons...that gives you two pistol shots, and counts as grenades. With the Rending Claws they can be surprisingly killy.
I've got two lists that I want to try out but I don't know which one would be more competitive. I wanted to base them around two Dimachaerons in Pods (as i'm just about to get the model) but I'm unsure on the best way to support them.
The list has more Tyrannocytes so that I can overload the opponent with threats. I considered a Bastion, but I was able to fit in the Biovores by having an Aegis and I can have three Large Blasts shot at from behind a 2+ Cover save if I leave the Malanthrope with the Biovores. I also have access to the Strategic Traits with this list which would be more useful.
Has less Pods but starts with more on the board. The Living Artillery could also get a few Pins in, making it easier for the Dimachaeron to get into combat. Had enough points for Gargoyles, to tarpit a unit or to score an Objective.
Frozocrone wrote: I've got two lists that I want to try out but I don't know which one would be more competitive. I wanted to base them around two Dimachaerons in Pods (as i'm just about to get the model) but I'm unsure on the best way to support them.
Thoughts and criticisms would be appreciated!
If you are reserving 550 points that are assaulty, you should modify your reserves in some way. I think you probably drop one flyrant from list 2 so that it fits in a CAD and can take an Aegis with a Comms relay. Add more gargoyles, and upgrade you troops to Rippers with 1 squad of roughly 20 Hormagants. Add Lictors to taste. Going to struggle mightily vs Ad Lance, but at least your Dimacharons will get a chance to assault before turn 5.
I am not sold on Dimacharons in a pod. 40% of the time they show up and die immediately (Tau, Eldar). 40% of the time I've basically got the game won without them (Space Marines, Orks). They only impact 1 in 5 games (Necrons, IG), and in some games you want them on the board to start, and are better off dropping the pods empty (Demons, Drop Pods)
So I've been thinking about the Hive Fleet Detachment and the Warlord table that comes with it. It seems lackluster compared to the very decent Strategic table, however I wonder if it has some merit if you plan to use a Tyranid Prime with either a large unit of Warriors or a large brood of Devilgaunts.
Rolling on that table gives you a reasonable chance of obtaining either Infiltrate for the Prime and its unit (which admittedly you can get from Strategic too), but also the chance to get the whole unit Preferred Enemy which would make either a large unit of Warriors or a large unit of Devilgaunts very dangerous at range without having to go through the trouble of running the Maw Claws and hoping to kill something in melee.
You also make your Tyrants slightly less appealing as they won't grant Slay the Warlord.
Sinful Hero wrote: Might want to simplify those point costs- it may be a little too descriptive for dakkadakka.
But it looks like you shouldn't have too much trouble to me with 3 Flyrants.
Edited the points cost, good catch. I just copied and pasted from the list document.
What would be your target priority? I'm thinking take out the Deathstrikes before they can fire, but then I've got Pask and his Punisher to worry about.
Spread out (and spread out objectives as well). Kill his transports/troops. Box him in to prevent him escaping. If you get a chance to kill Pask, go for it but don't go out of the ways to do so. If he's in the front, then kill him. However, most likely he will be in the back with transports as a screen. In that case, kill transports in the 1st pass with your flyrants (they'll probably be out of egrubs range anyways). Then in the 2nd pass, you can take out Pask. Also, make sure to deploy your flyrants 31" from Pask (his effective range is 30") and you won't have to worry about his alpha-strike if you are going 2nd.
Mawlocs when they come in should take out transports or any disembarked troops. I wouldn't worry too much about deathstrikes as long as you space out.
Sentry pylons are horrific and the fact I can't jink against them is brutal. How do I deal with them??? I'd need two turns of shooting at them with my 3 Flyrants to statistically finish them - that's mental.
But if I focus on the pylons then I'm ignoring the 15 wraiths Floating around the board.
I love this necron list. HATE the fact I have to play it though :[
I don't believe those pylons should be able to hit your FMC's when they are swooping so just go and kill everything else. You can save the pylonstar for last. Just make sure you spread out. And try to go first against them. Going 2nd can be really, really bad. You may think that staying within malanthrope range is good against them, but it really isn't.
BTW, pure RAW for the deathray is stupid. Say, you have 2 flyrants in range of your malan. He then hits all 3 with the DR line with 3 pylons. Do you know how many S10 AP1 hits each unit will take? By pure RAW, that's 18 S10 AP1 hits on EACH FRIGGIN' UNIT!!!
Anyways, some tips:
1. Always stay in cover or jink against Pylon shooting.
2. Target priority. I would go with this:
A) Farseer+jetbikes if you can reach them. You don't want that bastard summoning. Keep him in Shadows range if it is convenient, but don't go out of your ways to do so.
B) Wraiths or Annibarges. Don't go out of your ways to kill those annibarges because it may take you out of position. Whichever is more convenient (most likely the wraiths), focus on that. Make sure to FOCUS-FIRE on them.
C) Troops
D) Pylonstar. If you focus on it, try to position your flyrants so that they hit in on the side without any characters.
3. SPREAD OUT!
4. Be prepared to lose units. Don't play in too much of a protective mode. That's the problem with a lot of players sometimes. They're too afraid to lose units and so they don't play them like they should. Treat every single unit in your army as a pawn waiting to be sacrificed if it can bring your army closer to victory. And that includes your flyrants as well.
5. Mawloc can go after the pylonstar. They won't do as much damage due to majority T7, but they'll hit probably 6-8 times if they land directly. Priority should be the summoning farseer, but if that is not feasible, then go after the pylonstar with your mawloc(s). BTW, if the farseer uses his spirit stones to summon daemons, he won't have an Invuln save. That means you can potentially kill him with the mawloc or force him to do a lot of Look-Out-Sirs.
Wilson wrote: Sentry pylons are horrific and the fact I can't jink against them is brutal. How do I deal with them??? I'd need two turns of shooting at them with my 3 Flyrants to statistically finish them - that's mental.
We always play sentry pylon's Death Ray as a Beam. Beams can't hit Swooping FMC's. So keep to the Sky. Hunt down the Anhillation barges, and then blow up the Wraiths and jetbikes. A low model count list with a Barbed heirodule and 2-3 flyrants will make mincemeat of that list.
Also, AFAIK Sentry Pylons don't ignore cover, so Jink Away, and keep everything on the ground in the range of a shrouded giver.
ETA: I looked in the IA:Apoc ver 3 book to make sure my buddy doesn't play them wrong, and I see nothing at all about ignoring cover or Jink.
Correct, they don't ignore cover.
However, even cover might not be enough due to the idiotic wording of their rule. Say, they hit 3 rippers (just 1 unit) and 1 flyrant (assuming on the ground still) with 3 pylons. Guess how many hits each unit takes? 24 friggin' S10 hits!!! Even cover won't be enough to save them.
Obyron and the overlord go with the pylons and teleport around the board so I cannot ignore them and the TO has faq'd it that a death ray hits everything ( expect flyers) so I cannot ignore them.
Even flyers who are flying?!? That's crazy!!!
You may want to double-check with the TO during the game, but that is very much against RAW or RAI.
But if that is the case, then you've got no choice but to focus your flyrants against the star. Just try to position them such that you shooting will be closest to the pylons themselves rather than against the characters.
However, if that is not possible, then go after the character with Phaeron. If you take him out, then the unit cannot shoot after moving. That will basically immobilize them if they want to shoot.
3rd I'm not sure about IC's joining pylons. Because pylons can't be locked in Combat but IC's obviously can, so if you ever manage to get an assault off on the pylons, you will separate them from the IC's, and thus take away his teleport trick, and you should try to get a TO ruling on this. Also, while my RAW interpretation is that only Obyron must be able to move to teleport, you might dig into this a bit, because the pylons are immobile.
4th Remember that since the Pylons are Artillery, the IC's can't LOS wounds to them. So a single Warp Lance from a Flyrant will take out one of the IC's. He might LOS from one IC to the other, but make him take those 3++ invuls. If you want to tailor, you could throw some zoeys in a pod instead of the Dimacharon.
I don't quite remember if it was a FW or a LVO/BAOFAQ, but it basically says that if there is a character in the unit, then the pylons can be locked in combat, at least while the character(s) is still alive. However, after he dies, then they are no longer locked in combat. Makes sense to me.
Pylons are not immobile. They can move. They just can't shoot while doing so....unless there is a character in the unit to give them Relentless (i.e. Phaeron).
Obyron can teleport his unit out of combat. It is RAW from his rules. His Veil of Darkness is better than the normal Veils of Darkness.
Eldercaveman wrote: I thought the trick with the PylonStar wasn't so much jumping it around, but deep striking it in and messing things up with it? Getting into combat with it would be a good counter to be fair. Chances are you'll take out the rest of the models, and then sweep it off the board.
Cannot sweep as the pylons are Fearless. You can't lock them in combat because Obyron can teleport them out of it with his special rule (he is the only one in the Necron army that can do this).
Edit: Found the relevant FAQ rulings,
From the main 40kGT FAQ's
A template or blast shooting attack with Skyfire can hit a Swooping FMC. If the blast would scatter on a
ground unit, models on the ground under the template are hit normally as well.
From the Additional Caledonian FAQ's
A Doom Scythe’s Death Ray and the Sentry Pylon’s Focused Death Ray may hit Swooping
FMC’s like other Blast/Template weapons. However the ray’s initial point may only target
the Swooping FMC if it is also using the Skyfire rule.
Fortunately, the pylons don't have Skyfire.
Just make sure not to have another unit nearby where they can start the line off of in order to hit your flyrant.
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Sinful Hero wrote: What is a decent TAC loadout for shrikes? I'm thinking Rending Claws and a Deathspitter keeps their cost down while letting them threaten several unit types. They can't crack really tough nuts, but they can take on everything in between.
Keep them cheap. I like rending claws. That gives them some flexibility against normal infantry, elite infantry, high-T units and vehicles as well. As for the gun, just keep the standard devourers.
Gamerely wrote: Hey I'm just starting my own Tyranid swarm and I had a few questions regarding things. How do they fare against daemons/orks? My friend is a daemon phenom and I haven't had too much luck with any other army. Same with my other friend, he plays Orks. More questions to follow as they become apparent to me.
Run flyrants with devourers. Those are the bane of a daemon armies.
If you like swarms, run gargoyles. They are fast enough to hit multiple Daemons units if you need to. Also run an assault close-combat Tyranid unit. Your goal is to force Daemonic Instability tests against them. You may want to try out the SkyTyrant formation for this.
BTW, you can check out my battle report to see how I dealt with Daemons:
Gamerely wrote: Hey I'm just starting my own Tyranid swarm and I had a few questions regarding things. How do they fare against daemons/orks? My friend is a daemon phenom and I haven't had too much luck with any other army. Same with my other friend, he plays Orks. More questions to follow as they become apparent to me.
Tyranids are actually remarkably good against both Daemons and Orks. If those are your problem armies, Nids can make those problems go away!
@tag8833:
I appreciate the writeup, and I must agree with you on almost all of your points. The only one I diagree with you on is the Adrenal Glands. When the Reaper is taken, I feel like they become an A+ as it gives a very important Strength 8, that magical threshold where it will instant kill most Characters, and also glances most Vehicles on a 2+, which coincidentally makes it so that a Skytyrant now averages more than 3 glances against rear Armor 10. Useful I would think!
Right now, my current leaning is:
Flyrant with Reaper, AGlands, EGrubs, and Old Adversary with 25 Gargoyles.
I know that the OA and Reaper is half redundant, but I still like the reroll 1s to hit to make me feel like the Scything Talons actually matter...
I used to think that AG was a necessity for my SkyTyrant formation but now, I don't find it to be all that important. Here's why:
With the Skytyrant formation, you will be doing a lot of multi-assaults. Spread out those gargoyles for wider board control and most of the time, you can and will hit multiple units. In such a case, Furious Charge won't matter. For the rare occassion that you only want to assault 1 unit, yeah, AG may help. But more often than not, I find it better to hit multiple units.
Instead, I'd go with more gargoyles. The more, the better. 30 is probably the sweet spot.
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Frozocrone wrote: I've got two lists that I want to try out but I don't know which one would be more competitive. I wanted to base them around two Dimachaerons in Pods (as i'm just about to get the model) but I'm unsure on the best way to support them.
The list has more Tyrannocytes so that I can overload the opponent with threats. I considered a Bastion, but I was able to fit in the Biovores by having an Aegis and I can have three Large Blasts shot at from behind a 2+ Cover save if I leave the Malanthrope with the Biovores. I also have access to the Strategic Traits with this list which would be more useful.
Has less Pods but starts with more on the board. The Living Artillery could also get a few Pins in, making it easier for the Dimachaeron to get into combat. Had enough points for Gargoyles, to tarpit a unit or to score an Objective.
Thoughts and criticisms would be appreciated!
I don't see this as a which-is-better dilemma, but rather, more of a personal preference. Both lists are great and definitely viable. It's just a matter of whether you want to run 2 or 3 flyrants. You can't really go wrong with either.
A word of caution, however. Eldar and Tau will shred your malanthrope behind the Aegis, as well as a centurionstar with Perfect Timing. That's the reason why I run a bastion instead - against these armies which you will see a lot of in tournament play.
Frozocrone wrote: I've got two lists that I want to try out but I don't know which one would be more competitive. I wanted to base them around two Dimachaerons in Pods (as i'm just about to get the model) but I'm unsure on the best way to support them.
The list has more Tyrannocytes so that I can overload the opponent with threats. I considered a Bastion, but I was able to fit in the Biovores by having an Aegis and I can have three Large Blasts shot at from behind a 2+ Cover save if I leave the Malanthrope with the Biovores. I also have access to the Strategic Traits with this list which would be more useful.
Has less Pods but starts with more on the board. The Living Artillery could also get a few Pins in, making it easier for the Dimachaeron to get into combat. Had enough points for Gargoyles, to tarpit a unit or to score an Objective.
Thoughts and criticisms would be appreciated!
Wow, it is hard not to like either of these...I think I'll suggest #2 because it has more Winged Tyrants. Neiher list suits my style, because I like having Troops, but both of these look like they can win games. Could you find enough points to get Fighter Ace? that would be a very nice upgrade on the Warlord.
I've been checking your bat reps jy2 and they're good stuff! Seems like shadow in the warp is FANTASTIC against daemons. Seems like bringing a lot of flyrants is the common tactic. I've read through the run-through for the different units. I wonder how viable other builds are. I typically like to maximize putting more guys on the field over single strong units. Especially against my friends who usually runs 30 boyz at a time, or 20 flesh hounds and a death star of plague drones.
Wilson wrote: Sentry pylons are horrific and the fact I can't jink against them is brutal. How do I deal with them??? I'd need two turns of shooting at them with my 3 Flyrants to statistically finish them - that's mental.
We always play sentry pylon's Death Ray as a Beam. Beams can't hit Swooping FMC's. So keep to the Sky. Hunt down the Anhillation barges, and then blow up the Wraiths and jetbikes. A low model count list with a Barbed heirodule and 2-3 flyrants will make mincemeat of that list.
Also, AFAIK Sentry Pylons don't ignore cover, so Jink Away, and keep everything on the ground in the range of a shrouded giver.
ETA: I looked in the IA:Apoc ver 3 book to make sure my buddy doesn't play them wrong, and I see nothing at all about ignoring cover or Jink.
Correct, they don't ignore cover.
However, even cover might not be enough due to the idiotic wording of their rule. Say, they hit 3 rippers (just 1 unit) and 1 flyrant (assuming on the ground still) with 3 pylons. Guess how many hits each unit takes? 24 friggin' S10 hits!!! Even cover won't be enough to save them.
That isn't how I read their rules, nor how I've seen them played. Here is the rule in question:
Focussed Death Ray: To fire the focussed death ray, nominate a point on the battlefield anywhere within its range, then nominate a second point within 3D6" of the first. Draw a straight line (Considered to be 1mm in width) between the two points. Every unit (Friendly or Enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to twice the number of models underneath the line.
I read that to mean that for 3 death ray Pylons, they would do 18 hits to the rippers and 6 hits to the flyrant, because of the 1st part of the sentence limiting the models to those inside the unit. I see the reason you drew your conclusion that it is not limited to models in the specific unit, but like many things 40k when a rule has 2 valid RAW arguments, it goes to a RAI argument, and I think the RAI is clear. Each unit takes a number of hits proportional to the number of models of that unit that are under the beam.
Well I got well and truly bummed at cally however Nathan Roberts and a few other guys are doing pretty well on the top tables! I beleive Nathan is running a triple Flyrant and skyblight list in the final.
jy2 wrote: However, even cover might not be enough due to the idiotic wording of their rule. Say, they hit 3 rippers (just 1 unit) and 1 flyrant (assuming on the ground still) with 3 pylons. Guess how many hits each unit takes? 24 friggin' S10 hits!!! Even cover won't be enough to save them.
That isn't how I read their rules, nor how I've seen them played. Here is the rule in question:
Focussed Death Ray: To fire the focussed death ray, nominate a point on the battlefield anywhere within its range, then nominate a second point within 3D6" of the first. Draw a straight line (Considered to be 1mm in width) between the two points. Every unit (Friendly or Enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to twice the number of models underneath the line.
I read that to mean that for 3 death ray Pylons, they would do 18 hits to the rippers and 6 hits to the flyrant, because of the 1st part of the sentence limiting the models to those inside the unit. I see the reason you drew your conclusion that it is not limited to models in the specific unit, but like many things 40k when a rule has 2 valid RAW arguments, it goes to a RAI argument, and I think the RAI is clear. Each unit takes a number of hits proportional to the number of models of that unit that are under the beam.
RAI, I agree with you and that's how I play it as well.
However, like I said, the RAW is stupid....but it is also very clear.
In tournament play, better check with the TO.
Wilson wrote: Well I got well and truly bummed at cally however Nathan Roberts and a few other guys are doing pretty well on the top tables! I beleive Nathan is running a triple Flyrant and skyblight list in the final.
Sorry to hear. How'd your match against the Necron Pylonstar go?
BTW, does Nathan post here on dakka? Know his dakka handle?
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Gamerely wrote: I've been checking your bat reps jy2 and they're good stuff! Seems like shadow in the warp is FANTASTIC against daemons. Seems like bringing a lot of flyrants is the common tactic. I've read through the run-through for the different units. I wonder how viable other builds are. I typically like to maximize putting more guys on the field over single strong units. Especially against my friends who usually runs 30 boyz at a time, or 20 flesh hounds and a death star of plague drones.
In that case, gargoyles are our best gribblies. They are fast, can shoot and are also a better tarpit unit due to their Blinding Poison. Moreover, they can also hurt high Toughness units that hormies/termies cannot.
Definitely take a look at the SkyTyrant formation. I think you'd like it.
My experience with Shrikes (albeit not that much experience), which I'm testing for a tourney is that they want to get into combat asap and not waste time shooting - I've lost the unit a few times due in no small part to it having spent time shooting (and doing very little damage). Sure, it adds versatility, but I feel like when I spend that much on a unit, 6 devourers isn't going to cut it - not least when I could have a unit of gaunts spit out a huge amount more shots from the same weapon for far cheaper.
Anyway, I would agree with Rending Claws as a fairly cheap option that lets them deal with /most/ things - but am also going to try dropping the devourer and running Scytals+AG to essentially just accelerate them into combat and let them have more hits when they get there.
General question, are people under the impression that you have to take the leviathan warlord traits if you use that detachment?
I seem to recall lots of people saying you do, but I read it for myself this weekend before my first game at Cally, rather than just assuming. And you still get he option of swapping out.
Eldercaveman wrote: General question, are people under the impression that you have to take the leviathan warlord traits if you use that detachment?
I seem to recall lots of people saying you do, but I read it for myself this weekend before my first game at Cally, rather than just assuming. And you still get he option of swapping out.
The Hive Fleet Detachment states outright that you have to use the Hive Fleet Warlords table.
Eldercaveman wrote: General question, are people under the impression that you have to take the leviathan warlord traits if you use that detachment?
I seem to recall lots of people saying you do, but I read it for myself this weekend before my first game at Cally, rather than just assuming. And you still get he option of swapping out.
The Hive Fleet Detachment states outright that you have to use the Hive Fleet Warlords table.
Yeah I thought it did, but I read it this weekend and it says your warlord may choose to roll on this table rather than the ones in Warhammer 40,000 the rules or codex Tyranids. Unless somehow I've completely forgotten how to read which wouldn't be beyond he realms of possibility.
Eldercaveman wrote: General question, are people under the impression that you have to take the leviathan warlord traits if you use that detachment?
I seem to recall lots of people saying you do, but I read it for myself this weekend before my first game at Cally, rather than just assuming. And you still get he option of swapping out.
The Hive Fleet Detachment states outright that you have to use the Hive Fleet Warlords table.
Yeah I thought it did, but I read it this weekend and it says your warlord may choose to roll on this table rather than the ones in Warhammer 40,000 the rules or codex Tyranids. Unless somehow I've completely forgotten how to read which wouldn't be beyond he realms of possibility.
It is a detachment requirement. From the Detachment Requirements section :"If your Warlord is from this Detachment, then you must roll on the Hive Fleet Leviathan Warlord Traits table to see which Warlord Trait it has". I am not seeing a way around this off hand.
I can confirm It, I saw the real book myself today too during the event (as in the softcover version not the eversion).
It says you MAY roll on Leviathan table NOT must. Therefore now there is 2 versions and no one has any clue which is correct, we went with book version because it was seen as more official.
Just as an aside Cally results are now out, a Tyranid player came both 2nd and 5th.
The guy who won the event overall was using a pylon star.
The Tyranid player who came 5th 20nil'd me in my second game. His list really was a bad match up for mine especially in a kill points mission.
I finished 43rd which is good, I was hoping top 50, and considering my 3rd and 4th games (a loss and draw respectively) were both my games too lose for various reasons, I let them slip, I pretty happy with that postion.
Wilson came across some real tough draws all weekend, he draw the pylon star round 1! He finished 136 in the end.
Benlisted wrote: My experience with Shrikes (albeit not that much experience), which I'm testing for a tourney is that they want to get into combat asap and not waste time shooting - I've lost the unit a few times due in no small part to it having spent time shooting (and doing very little damage). Sure, it adds versatility, but I feel like when I spend that much on a unit, 6 devourers isn't going to cut it - not least when I could have a unit of gaunts spit out a huge amount more shots from the same weapon for far cheaper.
Anyway, I would agree with Rending Claws as a fairly cheap option that lets them deal with /most/ things - but am also going to try dropping the devourer and running Scytals+AG to essentially just accelerate them into combat and let them have more hits when they get there.
If you go this way you should find the points for Flesh Hooks...two pistol shots, and "counts as grenades" for a CC unit, that is pure gold. I would use that in preference to Adrenals, and you save 1 point per.
Jpr wrote: I can confirm It, I saw the real book myself today too during the event (as in the softcover version not the eversion).
It says you MAY roll on Leviathan table NOT must. Therefore now there is 2 versions and no one has any clue which is correct, we went with book version because it was seen as more official.
Check the detachment requirements. Not the Warlord table requirements. If you don't use the detachment, you can use the The leviathan table or the BRB tables
Tyranids' placed 2nd and 5th at the 180 man Caledonian open.
Both were running Leviathan Primary for triple flyrants.
2nd place allied in Skyblight formation, while 5th allied Skytyrant formation.
I would consider that a very good showing by the bugs.
Deshkar wrote: Tyranids' placed 2nd and 5th at the 180 man Caledonian open.
Both were running Leviathan Primary for triple flyrants.
2nd place allied in Skyblight formation, while 5th allied Skytyrant formation.
I would consider that a very good showing by the bugs.
imho it's a bad sign...
an "all flying" list means that if the opponent hasn't skyfire he has no chances
Deshkar wrote: Tyranids' placed 2nd and 5th at the 180 man Caledonian open.
Both were running Leviathan Primary for triple flyrants.
2nd place allied in Skyblight formation, while 5th allied Skytyrant formation.
I would consider that a very good showing by the bugs.
imho it's a bad sign...
an "all flying" list means that if the opponent hasn't skyfire he has no chances
Most of the strongest list these days can deal with it. If they aren't bringing a cutthroat competitive list themselves, they definitely wouldn't survive against one.
A lot of the other nids also brought 3-4 flyrants themselves, but most of them were in the middle or slightly below the pack. If so many opponents can't deal with it, the top 15 will be filled with all nids or daemons, but that's not even anywhere near the case.
Deshkar wrote: Tyranids' placed 2nd and 5th at the 180 man Caledonian open.
Both were running Leviathan Primary for triple flyrants.
2nd place allied in Skyblight formation, while 5th allied Skytyrant formation.
I would consider that a very good showing by the bugs.
imho it's a bad sign...
an "all flying" list means that if the opponent hasn't skyfire he has no chances
Which is what competitive play is all about. Maximizing your chances of winning. It doesn't matter if you're playing 40k, MTG or anything else for that matter; if you can hose huge swathes of what your opponents can bring with no detriment to your own strengths then you do so.
azazel70820 wrote: Rules clarification. Spores don’t score right? So that holds true for Kill points and Maelstrom objectives right?
yeah thats right.
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Eldercaveman wrote: Just as an aside Cally results are now out, a Tyranid player came both 2nd and 5th.
The guy who won the event overall was using a pylon star.
The Tyranid player who came 5th 20nil'd me in my second game. His list really was a bad match up for mine especially in a kill points mission.
I finished 43rd which is good, I was hoping top 50, and considering my 3rd and 4th games (a loss and draw respectively) were both my games too lose for various reasons, I let them slip, I pretty happy with that postion.
Wilson came across some real tough draws all weekend, he draw the pylon star round 1! He finished 136 in the end.
haha no excuses for me, I just had a really poop tournament. I imagine if I played my fifth and final game I would have probably received the Wooden spoon and got me some of those tutti-fruiti lollipops.
I'm super psyched Nids did so well and well done on your result man! James played extremely well and totally deserved the win for being such a lovely dude!
I'm looking forward to the next one and it was truly rad to meet everyone there.
Frozocrone wrote: I've got two lists that I want to try out but I don't know which one would be more competitive. I wanted to base them around two Dimachaerons in Pods (as i'm just about to get the model) but I'm unsure on the best way to support them.
The list has more Tyrannocytes so that I can overload the opponent with threats. I considered a Bastion, but I was able to fit in the Biovores by having an Aegis and I can have three Large Blasts shot at from behind a 2+ Cover save if I leave the Malanthrope with the Biovores. I also have access to the Strategic Traits with this list which would be more useful.
Has less Pods but starts with more on the board. The Living Artillery could also get a few Pins in, making it easier for the Dimachaeron to get into combat. Had enough points for Gargoyles, to tarpit a unit or to score an Objective.
Thoughts and criticisms would be appreciated!
Thank you tag, jy2 and pinecone for commenting. Would removing two Tyrannocytes from the first list be worth it? Then I could decide whether to start the Dimachaerons or Carnifexes on the board depending on the army I'm facing (maybe have some screening/tarpit units).
Eldercaveman wrote: Just as an aside Cally results are now out, a Tyranid player came both 2nd and 5th.
The guy who won the event overall was using a pylon star.
The Tyranid player who came 5th 20nil'd me in my second game. His list really was a bad match up for mine especially in a kill points mission.
I finished 43rd which is good, I was hoping top 50, and considering my 3rd and 4th games (a loss and draw respectively) were both my games too lose for various reasons, I let them slip, I pretty happy with that postion.
Wilson came across some real tough draws all weekend, he draw the pylon star round 1! He finished 136 in the end.
Deshkar wrote: Tyranids' placed 2nd and 5th at the 180 man Caledonian open.
Both were running Leviathan Primary for triple flyrants.
2nd place allied in Skyblight formation, while 5th allied Skytyrant formation.
I would consider that a very good showing by the bugs.
imho it's a bad sign...
an "all flying" list means that if the opponent hasn't skyfire he has no chances
Yeah, a flyrant-spam list is an anti-meta list. It's banking on the average list not bringing enough skyfire to deal with it. You can't take it on with just an average amount of skyfire. You actually need to slightly tailor your TAC list to be more anti-flyer based. This, in turns, unbalances your army to all the other armies. That's the type of "monky wrench" a flyer-heavy Tyranid army brings to the tournament meta.
Eldercaveman wrote: Just as an aside Cally results are now out, a Tyranid player came both 2nd and 5th.
The guy who won the event overall was using a pylon star.
The Tyranid player who came 5th 20nil'd me in my second game. His list really was a bad match up for mine especially in a kill points mission.
I finished 43rd which is good, I was hoping top 50, and considering my 3rd and 4th games (a loss and draw respectively) were both my games too lose for various reasons, I let them slip, I pretty happy with that postion.
Wilson came across some real tough draws all weekend, he draw the pylon star round 1! He finished 136 in the end.
haha no excuses for me, I just had a really poop tournament. I imagine if I played my fifth and final game I would have probably received the Wooden spoon and got me some of those tutti-fruiti lollipops.
I'm super psyched Nids did so well and well done on your result man! James played extremely well and totally deserved the win for being such a lovely dude!
I'm looking forward to the next one and it was truly rad to meet everyone there.
That's a bummer Simon. Oh well, better luck next time.
Frozocrone wrote: I've got two lists that I want to try out but I don't know which one would be more competitive. I wanted to base them around two Dimachaerons in Pods (as i'm just about to get the model) but I'm unsure on the best way to support them.
The list has more Tyrannocytes so that I can overload the opponent with threats. I considered a Bastion, but I was able to fit in the Biovores by having an Aegis and I can have three Large Blasts shot at from behind a 2+ Cover save if I leave the Malanthrope with the Biovores. I also have access to the Strategic Traits with this list which would be more useful.
Has less Pods but starts with more on the board. The Living Artillery could also get a few Pins in, making it easier for the Dimachaeron to get into combat. Had enough points for Gargoyles, to tarpit a unit or to score an Objective.
Thoughts and criticisms would be appreciated!
Thank you tag, jy2 and pinecone for commenting. Would removing two Tyrannocytes from the first list be worth it? Then I could decide whether to start the Dimachaerons or Carnifexes on the board depending on the army I'm facing (maybe have some screening/tarpit units).
I think you should at least 1 of the tyrannocyte pods for list #1. All those tyrannocytes are just liabilities in Big Guns or VP missions.
I don't know if it's because you don't have the models or just based on principle, but I'd swap out (for List #1) 1 dakkafex+pod + biovore for another 1 flyrant + mucolid and go with Leviathan. I think that would be a stronger army. It'll also be less of a liability in the missions I mentioned above.
Frozocrone wrote: I've got two lists that I want to try out but I don't know which one would be more competitive. I wanted to base them around two Dimachaerons in Pods (as i'm just about to get the model) but I'm unsure on the best way to support them.
The list has more Tyrannocytes so that I can overload the opponent with threats. I considered a Bastion, but I was able to fit in the Biovores by having an Aegis and I can have three Large Blasts shot at from behind a 2+ Cover save if I leave the Malanthrope with the Biovores. I also have access to the Strategic Traits with this list which would be more useful.
Has less Pods but starts with more on the board. The Living Artillery could also get a few Pins in, making it easier for the Dimachaeron to get into combat. Had enough points for Gargoyles, to tarpit a unit or to score an Objective.
Thoughts and criticisms would be appreciated!
Thank you tag, jy2 and pinecone for commenting. Would removing two Tyrannocytes from the first list be worth it? Then I could decide whether to start the Dimachaerons or Carnifexes on the board depending on the army I'm facing (maybe have some screening/tarpit units).
Pedantic mode on: I think you can always choose to start on the table, and drop the pods empty. But I personally would be much happier with more ground presence, so I would run 2 Tyrannocytes, and spend the savings elsewhere.
Late entry: Also a Battle forged CAD gets Objective secured, so you should take plenty of things that benefit from the rule. If not why not run Leviathan?
At the last tournament I got to taking about aa new style list with a few of the Tyranid players.
WE were talking about a list that had no tyrants for competitive play. I know heresy. Tyrants are a must you say. The thought we came up with is the only truly must take was the malenthroup and the barbed H. So the question was what to take.
Here is a list that we came up with on the fly to get the discussion going. It is rough but the idea is to have a great tool box to use I think.
++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1732pts) ++
Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]
Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]
Tyranid Prime [Deathspitter, Flesh Hooks, Lashwhip & Boneswords, Toxin Sacs]
Malanthrope
17x Hormagaunt [17x Toxin Sacs]
3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike]
3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike]
17x Devourer Termagant
Biovore Brood (80pts) [Biovore, Biovore]
Carnifex [Adrenal Glands, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms]
Toxicrene (160pts)
Barbed Hierodule (565pts)
As you can see it is a few points shy.
Tyrant spam is very strong. But their has to be another way to play. Thought I ask for ideas to work on a kind of anti meta list.
Could always stick a Tervigon or two as your HQs, and rely on a Broodlord for Warlord. Add Pods and they can drop some more nids in the backfield without the Termagant tax. Could work it into a sort of beta strike list- include a Comms and drop a ton of pods/Mawlocs in, with a good stout base(Such as a Tyrannofex or some such).
If you take a Prime, make him cheap I'd say. Give him a miasma cannon or Deathspitter and stick him with some other warriors to use his BS/WS: a few formations already run Warriors so that could be a good place to stick him if you already have to run him.
shadowfinder wrote: At the last tournament I got to taking about aa new style list with a few of the Tyranid players.
WE were talking about a list that had no tyrants for competitive play. I know heresy. Tyrants are a must you say. The thought we came up with is the only truly must take was the malenthroup and the barbed H. So the question was what to take.
Here is a list that we came up with on the fly to get the discussion going. It is rough but the idea is to have a great tool box to use I think.
++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1732pts) ++
Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]
Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]
Tyranid Prime [Deathspitter, Flesh Hooks, Lashwhip & Boneswords, Toxin Sacs]
Malanthrope
17x Hormagaunt [17x Toxin Sacs]
3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike]
3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike]
17x Devourer Termagant
Biovore Brood (80pts) [Biovore, Biovore]
Carnifex [Adrenal Glands, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms]
Toxicrene (160pts)
Barbed Hierodule (565pts)
As you can see it is a few points shy.
Tyrant spam is very strong. But their has to be another way to play. Thought I ask for ideas to work on a kind of anti meta list.
I've tried running the Prime quite a few times, and I've always been disappointed. If you are going to go this route, though, I would suggest just dropping the Deathspitter and relying on Flesh Hooks for shooting, then give him Scything Talons for the extra attack. He is primarily a close combat beast, and I presume he goes with the 17 Horms in a pod, so I think you are probably going to want to run him (and the Horms) once he lands. I know it's only 5 points for the Deathspitter, but it just doesn't synergize with the rest of the build and it seems a waste to lose out on the extra attack. If you want a shooty Prime, I would suggest putting him in a Pod with Devilgaunts.
Edit: oops, I see you also have 17 Devilgaunts (missed that the first time). So I guess you are giving yourself the option of going with either one at deployment? Sounds decent.
I'm not surprised at all by the Cale results.
LeviaBlight is as said strong in the current meta. So strong lots of players are running it which means we'll have to see now how the armies change to counter.
I fully expect LeviaBlight to win a GT.. Hoping LVO..
L0rdF1end wrote: I'm not surprised at all by the Cale results.
LeviaBlight is as said strong in the current meta. So strong lots of players are running it which means we'll have to see now how the armies change to counter.
I fully expect LeviaBlight to win a GT.. Hoping LVO..
I might actually bring it to the LVO. Or my Pentyrant list.
The way I see it, there are 3 very strong, tournament Tyranid builds currently:
1. Triple-flyrant Leviathan w/Barbed Hierodule.
2. Triple-flyrant Leviathan w/Skyblight or SkyTyrant
The most gutting thing about my Cslly results is my game 3 and 4 which I narrowley lost and drew respectively were games I could have easily taken, but I slacked off after dominating early in both games.
I learnt a valuable lesson in both games. Be ruthless.
L0rdF1end wrote: I'm not surprised at all by the Cale results.
LeviaBlight is as said strong in the current meta. So strong lots of players are running it which means we'll have to see now how the armies change to counter.
I fully expect LeviaBlight to win a GT.. Hoping LVO..
I might actually bring it to the LVO. Or my Pentyrant list.
The way I see it, there are 3 very strong, tournament Tyranid builds currently:
1. Triple-flyrant Leviathan w/Barbed Hierodule.
2. Triple-flyrant Leviathan w/Skyblight or SkyTyrant
3. Pentyrants
Wish I could disagree. Personally I lean towards Leviathan, with a SkyTyrant, as fitting my style the best. Though I still think Hyper Toxic Node has promise either with standard CAD, or Leviathan. Mostly because it provides 3 Broods of Venos outside of CAD That just looks dang tempting to me.
shadowfinder wrote: At the last tournament I got to taking about aa new style list with a few of the Tyranid players.
WE were talking about a list that had no tyrants for competitive play. I know heresy. Tyrants are a must you say. The thought we came up with is the only truly must take was the malenthroup and the barbed H. So the question was what to take.
Here is a list that we came up with on the fly to get the discussion going. It is rough but the idea is to have a great tool box to use I think.
++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1732pts) ++
Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]
Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]
Tyranid Prime [Deathspitter, Flesh Hooks, Lashwhip & Boneswords, Toxin Sacs]
Malanthrope
17x Hormagaunt [17x Toxin Sacs]
3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike]
3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike]
17x Devourer Termagant
Biovore Brood (80pts) [Biovore, Biovore]
Carnifex [Adrenal Glands, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms]
Toxicrene (160pts)
Barbed Hierodule (565pts)
As you can see it is a few points shy.
Tyrant spam is very strong. But their has to be another way to play. Thought I ask for ideas to work on a kind of anti meta list.
I've tried this sort of list quite a lot. It was my dream to Show up at LVO with a 0 tyrant list equiped to challenge the top meta. It just isn't a good way to go. Its an unbalanced, able to win certain games, but fairly easy to derail. The Tyranid prime is overcosted by 1/2 and has no answer to 2+ armor saves that can challenge him out.
With this list in particular you are going to struggle mightily to pop vehicles. Barbie can help you with that, but Barbie + 1 Dakkafex isn't enough. Imagine facing AD Lance. Also, 1 Dakkafex isn't enough anti-air. Imagine how this list would fare vs a trip flyrant + Barbie list? Not very well.
When not running Flying Circus the Rippers aren't very valuable. You could drop them for some Gargoyles which are always useful. My best success with a No Tyrant list was running bioblast node.
Spoiler:
Tyranid CAD:
Tyranid Prime (Miasma Cannon, Scything Talons)
Got my butt kicked by Tau, but my Trip flyrant gets its butt kicked just as easily by tau. I was able to take out Wave serpent spam (But it was close), and I reliably beat most marine builds. I had some trouble vs Wraith Spam Eldar, but I guess that isn't part of the competitive meta. Necron AV13 was always close. I did OK vs Dark Eldar, but lost all my Carnifexes. Against Drop pod marines it was a sight to behold. Pulled off one turn 2 tabling. I only played Ad Lance once. Killed 2 Knights, but they took out most of my stuff (2 dakkafexes died to an explosion), and I didn't have enough left to outscore them.
Frozocrone wrote: I've got two lists that I want to try out but I don't know which one would be more competitive. I wanted to base them around two Dimachaerons in Pods (as i'm just about to get the model) but I'm unsure on the best way to support them.
The list has more Tyrannocytes so that I can overload the opponent with threats. I considered a Bastion, but I was able to fit in the Biovores by having an Aegis and I can have three Large Blasts shot at from behind a 2+ Cover save if I leave the Malanthrope with the Biovores. I also have access to the Strategic Traits with this list which would be more useful.
Has less Pods but starts with more on the board. The Living Artillery could also get a few Pins in, making it easier for the Dimachaeron to get into combat. Had enough points for Gargoyles, to tarpit a unit or to score an Objective.
Thoughts and criticisms would be appreciated!
Thank you tag, jy2 and pinecone for commenting. Would removing two Tyrannocytes from the first list be worth it? Then I could decide whether to start the Dimachaerons or Carnifexes on the board depending on the army I'm facing (maybe have some screening/tarpit units).
My opinion is that 2 Dimachaerons in pods is probably a mistake. I'm not convinced that Dimachaerons in pods is ever a TAC approach. There are games where it will be big, and games where it will be 275 points wasted on something with no impact. And you have not 1, but 2 of those.
The more I play with the Dimachaeron, the more I'm convinced that he almost needs a list built around supporting him to make him work. Otherwise you are mainly simplifying your opponent's target priority and reducing your ability to alpha strike. That's why I like list #2 better. You've got a significantly stronger Alphastrike, and the ability to prepare the board for the Dimacharon to arrive and do his thing. If you do want to pursue list #1, I suggest you Drop 1 Dimacharon and pod for 2 units of outflanking mixed gants. Like this:
Then you've got 85 points left over. Probably another Malanthrope for Synapse. Your biggest concern at that point is Necron AV 13 wall, but I think in about 2 weeks when the new codex drops, that may look a little different. Ad Lance will give you some trouble too, but depending on what they bring with it, you should have no problem killing 2 Knights, and outscoring the last one
shadowfinder wrote: At the last tournament I got to taking about aa new style list with a few of the Tyranid players.
WE were talking about a list that had no tyrants for competitive play. I know heresy. Tyrants are a must you say. The thought we came up with is the only truly must take was the malenthroup and the barbed H. So the question was what to take.
Here is a list that we came up with on the fly to get the discussion going. It is rough but the idea is to have a great tool box to use I think.
++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1732pts) ++
Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]
Tyrannocyte [5x Deathspitters]
Tyranid Prime [Deathspitter, Flesh Hooks, Lashwhip & Boneswords, Toxin Sacs]
Malanthrope
17x Hormagaunt [17x Toxin Sacs]
3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike]
3x Ripper Swarm [3x Deep Strike]
17x Devourer Termagant
Biovore Brood (80pts) [Biovore, Biovore]
Carnifex [Adrenal Glands, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms]
Toxicrene (160pts)
Barbed Hierodule (565pts)
As you can see it is a few points shy.
Tyrant spam is very strong. But their has to be another way to play. Thought I ask for ideas to work on a kind of anti meta list.
The problem with this type of list is that you lack mobility to deal with the faster lists. Sure you have some mobility with the tyrannocyte spores, but once they drop, they are basically static. Faster armies such as mechdar, White Scars, Dark Eldar venom-spam, Necrons, jumping Tau (Farsight Enclaves) can just get out of the way while focusing down 1 unit at a time. Then you can't catch them. Nor are you particularly adept at taking down these types of mech-spam lists.
Also, this type of lists will have problems against true deathstar armies (i.e. seer council, the greentide, centstar) as the units themselves really don't have the means to directly take on the deathstars nor will they be able to lock them down (Hit-&-Run with the seer council, Gate with the centstar and the greentide will just about wipe out anything that charges it). At least with flyrants, they are better able to ignore the deathstars and to go after the "support" units. A ground Tyranid list just doesn't have the mobility nor the flexibility to be able to do this.
If you can make a ground-&-pound Tyranid work against top-tier competition, then that's great! I don't mean to be a downer, but personally, I just don't see it working in theoryhammer.
I might actually bring it to the LVO. Or my Pentyrant list.
The way I see it, there are 3 very strong, tournament Tyranid builds currently:
1. Triple-flyrant Leviathan w/Barbed Hierodule.
2. Triple-flyrant Leviathan w/Skyblight or SkyTyrant
3. Pentyrants
Wow sleeping on me in two threads jy2. No #lictorshame on your list hurts so much.
Lol. You list is an exception. It takes more skill to pull it off than most people have. To this day, I think a lot of people still don't understand how your list works. Thus, I think it will still be a rarity to see it in competitive play. But yeah, #lictorshame is also another very strong tournament Tyranid build and it will have the advantage of surprise against most players.
BTW, your list was pre-Leviathan. How do you think Leviathan would affect your list? Would you take the 3rd flyrant or would you stick with the 2. And if you go with triple-flyrants, what would you drop in your list to make room? I suppose at least 1 mawloc and some genestealers?
Hey guys, I know it has been a long while since my last posts, but life has been hectic. Anyhow, I am curious if anyone has any experience running that Malceptor as a support battery rather than focusing on that anti armor spell?
By the way, can someone help me out with some math hammer on averages? I had an odd thought on averages in relation to winning.
Skytyrant Formation
Hive Tyrant Wings, 1 x Tl Devourers, Reaper of Obliterax, Electroshock Grubs (This load out is more for WYSIWYG)
12 x Gargoyles
12 x Gargoyles
1749
The only thing that has me doubting this list is that all the missions are Eternal War, and I don't know how much staying power the army will have to score late game. What do you guys think?
Skytyrant Formation
Hive Tyrant Wings, 1 x Tl Devourers, Reaper of Obliterax, Electroshock Grubs (This load out is more for WYSIWYG)
12 x Gargoyles
12 x Gargoyles
1749
The only thing that has me doubting this list is that all the missions are Eternal War, and I don't know how much staying power the army will have to score late game. What do you guys think?
To me, that's just too many hive crones. 2 is the max that I would go with. Personally, I'd swap out 1 hive crone for a mawloc and with the extra points, get a couple more gargoyles.
Skytyrant Formation
Hive Tyrant Wings, 1 x Tl Devourers, Reaper of Obliterax, Electroshock Grubs (This load out is more for WYSIWYG)
12 x Gargoyles
12 x Gargoyles
1749
The only thing that has me doubting this list is that all the missions are Eternal War, and I don't know how much staying power the army will have to score late game. What do you guys think?
To me, that's just too many hive crones. 2 is the max that I would go with. Personally, I'd swap out 1 hive crone for a mawloc and with the extra points, get a couple more gargoyles.
Yeah I like that change actually, means I only I have to paint up one model as well XD. So it's either this list, or a Pylon Star depending on what the new codex does to it.
Skytyrant Formation
Hive Tyrant Wings, 1 x Tl Devourers, Reaper of Obliterax, Electroshock Grubs (This load out is more for WYSIWYG)
12 x Gargoyles
12 x Gargoyles
1749
The only thing that has me doubting this list is that all the missions are Eternal War, and I don't know how much staying power the army will have to score late game. What do you guys think?
To me, that's just too many hive crones. 2 is the max that I would go with. Personally, I'd swap out 1 hive crone for a mawloc and with the extra points, get a couple more gargoyles.
Yeah I like that change actually, means I only I have to paint up one model as well XD. So it's either this list, or a Pylon Star depending on what the new codex does to it.
steady on the Pylon star man. I would imagine that will get FAQ'd soon.
besides, a centurion star/farsight bomb/ lynx etc would wreck it.
p.s I like that list and wrote out a practically identical one to it!
Skytyrant Formation Hive Tyrant Wings, 1 x Tl Devourers, Reaper of Obliterax, Electroshock Grubs (This load out is more for WYSIWYG) 12 x Gargoyles 12 x Gargoyles
1749
The only thing that has me doubting this list is that all the missions are Eternal War, and I don't know how much staying power the army will have to score late game. What do you guys think?
To me, that's just too many hive crones. 2 is the max that I would go with. Personally, I'd swap out 1 hive crone for a mawloc and with the extra points, get a couple more gargoyles.
Yeah I like that change actually, means I only I have to paint up one model as well XD. So it's either this list, or a Pylon Star depending on what the new codex does to it.
steady on the Pylon star man. I would imagine that will get FAQ'd soon.
besides, a centurion star/farsight bomb/ lynx etc would wreck it.
p.s I like that list and wrote out a practically identical one to it!
Yeah I'm holding off for the new codex to see if it's worth it, GW will never FAQ it, because it's just a combo they won't ever be aware of. But I think lots of events will start FAQ'ing around it. Battlefield is still going to be using the OldCron codex so it will still be doable with that. It's just whether or not I should drop the £220 on the Pylon's and Orpheus if it's not worth it when the new book comes out.
I got smashed by a similar list ran buy Mike from the Irish ETC team in my second game.
Skytyrant Formation
Hive Tyrant Wings, 1 x Tl Devourers, Reaper of Obliterax, Electroshock Grubs (This load out is more for WYSIWYG)
12 x Gargoyles
12 x Gargoyles
1749
The only thing that has me doubting this list is that all the missions are Eternal War, and I don't know how much staying power the army will have to score late game. What do you guys think?
To me, that's just too many hive crones. 2 is the max that I would go with. Personally, I'd swap out 1 hive crone for a mawloc and with the extra points, get a couple more gargoyles.
Yeah I like that change actually, means I only I have to paint up one model as well XD. So it's either this list, or a Pylon Star depending on what the new codex does to it.
steady on the Pylon star man. I would imagine that will get FAQ'd soon.
besides, a centurion star/farsight bomb/ lynx etc would wreck it.
p.s I like that list and wrote out a practically identical one to it!
Yeah I'm holding off for the new codex to see if it's worth it, GW will never FAQ it, because it's just a combo they won't ever be aware of. But I think lots of events will start FAQ'ing around it. Battlefield is still going to be using the OldCron codex so it will still be doable with that. It's just whether or not I should drop the £220 on the Pylon's and Orpheus if it's not worth it when the new book comes out.
I got smashed by a similar list ran buy Mike from the Irish ETC team in my second game.
I honestly expect either one of the following to happen with pylons vs FMC:
1. FW to FAQ the death and specify what it can hit. ( i.e to follow the wording for beams)
2. GW to FAQFMC rule - i.e not being able to hit FMC with blasts/ template weapons
3. GW to rewrite the wording for death rays in the new book and FW to imitate the wording in an update.
and of course finally, FW to FAQ the wording on that focussed DR rule. haha double hits per model for each unit... Man clearly didn't have his berroca that day!
I have a few local tourneys coming up over the next few months and i'll be running sky tyrant. I think you'll need 2 venoms though otherwise you might struggle to spread shrouding.
Skytyrant Formation
Hive Tyrant Wings, 1 x Tl Devourers, Reaper of Obliterax, Electroshock Grubs (This load out is more for WYSIWYG)
12 x Gargoyles
12 x Gargoyles
1749
The only thing that has me doubting this list is that all the missions are Eternal War, and I don't know how much staying power the army will have to score late game. What do you guys think?
To me, that's just too many hive crones. 2 is the max that I would go with. Personally, I'd swap out 1 hive crone for a mawloc and with the extra points, get a couple more gargoyles.
I agree, except I would buy Old Adversary instead of extra Gargoyles..
Skytyrant Formation
Hive Tyrant Wings, 1 x Tl Devourers, Reaper of Obliterax, Electroshock Grubs (This load out is more for WYSIWYG)
12 x Gargoyles
12 x Gargoyles
1749
The only thing that has me doubting this list is that all the missions are Eternal War, and I don't know how much staying power the army will have to score late game. What do you guys think?
Too many Crones as mentioned.
All of my lists are LeviaBlight at the moment.
2. GW to FAQFMC rule - i.e not being able to hit FMC with blasts/ template weapons
Never going to happen. It is too close to admitting an error, and meaningful FAQs are against company policy.
If they had any urge to do it, they would have done so in the FAQ they released to 7th that let Knights move double their Move through Cover roll. They didn't even bother to copy and paste that FAQ to GC's.
So the De La Warr open is coming up and as its not too far away Im going to try and go.
Its a bit odd, 5 rounds at 2000pts, No FW, but unlimited detachments, using modified BAO missions (whatever that ends up being).
My initial fun sounding list is:
Leviathan:
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Venomthrope
Mucolid
Mucolid
Mawloc
Mawloc
Deathleaper Assassin Brood
SkyTyrant Swarm w/Reaper and dual 15-20 garg broods
A massive initial footprint, lots of firepower, but doesnt depend on Tyrants as I'm wary of people packing more skyfire. This isnt a particularly competitive list, but a fun one that I think can win missions.
Other ideas are Leviathan + Primary for 4 tyrants and an HQ Tervigon dropping down in a Tyrannocyte.
Or via Leviathan + Primary, 4 Tyrants and 5 Dakkafexes w/gargs and venomthrope and Mucolids.
2. GW to FAQFMC rule - i.e not being able to hit FMC with blasts/ template weapons
Never going to happen. It is too close to admitting an error, and meaningful FAQs are against company policy.
If they had any urge to do it, they would have done so in the FAQ they released to 7th that let Knights move double their Move through Cover roll. They didn't even bother to copy and paste that FAQ to GC's.
Sean touched on the advent of Leviathan when it came out. I believe he said that he doesn't plan to take advantage of the extra FOC allowances because he feels like it is over the top to basically have double CADIIRC.
While I can sympathize with that feeling, if anyone is going to go to a tournament with the intent of actually competing, I don't think you can realistically handicap yourself like that (unless you, like Sean, are an exceptional general. And if so, more power to you!)
I have been experimenting with a Quad Flyrant list to some good success vs adlance, flying circus daemons and white scars. My list for 1850:
The only issue I've been having with it is that I would definitely like to change the bastion to a void shield generator, but then I give up the Comms Relay, which is a big deal. I mean, some armies can alpha the bastion away with some decent reliability, especially if they have two turns before I make my rolls. But even so, the warlord trait is as reliable as MOA (so only 1/3) and requires the warlord to be alive as well. With so many units that mostly want to stay off the board (or at least have more control over what turn they come in on) I don't think that I can give up the Comms to gain the shield generator.
And just an FYI, whoever said that the Leviathan detachment can't take a fortification is incorrect. I have the book right in front of me and you have both a LOW slot as well as a fortification slot. So if you wanted to, you could take a Barbed Hierodule, plus LAN, plus a void shield generator. FYI that's a pretty nasty triple threat at range. Trapdoor spider is licking its chops
Has anyone here tried stretching the Venom/Zoanthrope box by making the Venomthropes, then building the Zoeys by either scratch building tails or buying the bits from ebay? It looks like it would be pretty simple but I was just wondering if there were any hidden snags
The Hardback on pg 50 has no Fort slot- @luke1705 do you have a softcover version? It could be they printed two different charts...
@astro_nomicon
Looking at the sprues online, I think just sculpting tails could get you by. Only snafu I see are the chimneys on their back- I think those are shared so you'd have to do without or mock something up.
Sinful Hero wrote: The Hardback on pg 50 has no Fort slot- @luke1705 do you have a softcover version? It could be they printed two different charts...
Here is a screenshot of my EPUB version (No Fortification):
Spoiler:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
luke1705 wrote: I have been experimenting with a Quad Flyrant list to some good success vs adlance, flying circus daemons and white scars. My list for 1850:
The only issue I've been having with it is that I would definitely like to change the bastion to a void shield generator, but then I give up the Comms Relay, which is a big deal. I mean, some armies can alpha the bastion away with some decent reliability, especially if they have two turns before I make my rolls. But even so, the warlord trait is as reliable as MOA (so only 1/3) and requires the warlord to be alive as well. With so many units that mostly want to stay off the board (or at least have more control over what turn they come in on) I don't think that I can give up the Comms to gain the shield generator.
You don't want a VSG if you are playing by the LVOFAQ and running an extreme flying circus like that. Too many lists will use your Void Shield Generator against you. If you run one, you need to have enough board presence to deny your enemy the use of it.
An Example: That list should table White Scars bikes with ease. However, Give them a VSG, and they might just survive until the end of the game.
A local 1500pt tourney is this weekend where I DONT want to bring a friendly list. Unfortunately I dont have my Mucolids in the mail yet, so I have to spend some points on rippers.
CAD:
Flyrant w/Devs and electro
Mucolid
Ripper
11x Gargoyle
Hopefully the Gargoyle/Dima/Malanthrope can be a big distraction fex for me while the four Tyrants remove any threats. Barring Mucolids, any ways to make this more cut throat?
Iechine wrote: So the De La Warr open is coming up and as its not too far away Im going to try and go.
Its a bit odd, 5 rounds at 2000pts, No FW, but unlimited detachments, using modified BAO missions (whatever that ends up being).
My initial fun sounding list is:
Leviathan:
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Venomthrope
Mucolid
Mucolid
Mawloc
Mawloc
Deathleaper Assassin Brood
SkyTyrant Swarm w/Reaper and dual 15-20 garg broods
A massive initial footprint, lots of firepower, but doesnt depend on Tyrants as I'm wary of people packing more skyfire. This isnt a particularly competitive list, but a fun one that I think can win missions.
Other ideas are Leviathan + Primary for 4 tyrants and an HQ Tervigon dropping down in a Tyrannocyte.
Or via Leviathan + Primary, 4 Tyrants and 5 Dakkafexes w/gargs and venomthrope and Mucolids.
Looks mighty nice! Have you considered Leviathan/ Sky Blight? That lets you put Objective Secured into a Leviathan force...?
Iechine wrote: So the De La Warr open is coming up and as its not too far away Im going to try and go.
Its a bit odd, 5 rounds at 2000pts, No FW, but unlimited detachments, using modified BAO missions (whatever that ends up being).
My initial fun sounding list is:
Leviathan:
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Flyrant w/Devs and Electro
Venomthrope
Mucolid
Mucolid
Mawloc
Mawloc
Deathleaper Assassin Brood
SkyTyrant Swarm w/Reaper and dual 15-20 garg broods
A massive initial footprint, lots of firepower, but doesnt depend on Tyrants as I'm wary of people packing more skyfire. This isnt a particularly competitive list, but a fun one that I think can win missions.
Other ideas are Leviathan + Primary for 4 tyrants and an HQ Tervigon dropping down in a Tyrannocyte.
Or via Leviathan + Primary, 4 Tyrants and 5 Dakkafexes w/gargs and venomthrope and Mucolids.
Oh, it's competitive. A lot of armies will have trouble with this build.
All of those list ideas sound pretty good.
luke1705 wrote: Sean touched on the advent of Leviathan when it came out. I believe he said that he doesn't plan to take advantage of the extra FOC allowances because he feels like it is over the top to basically have double CADIIRC.
While I can sympathize with that feeling, if anyone is going to go to a tournament with the intent of actually competing, I don't think you can realistically handicap yourself like that (unless you, like Sean, are an exceptional general. And if so, more power to you!)
I have been experimenting with a Quad Flyrant list to some good success vs adlance, flying circus daemons and white scars. My list for 1850:
The only issue I've been having with it is that I would definitely like to change the bastion to a void shield generator, but then I give up the Comms Relay, which is a big deal. I mean, some armies can alpha the bastion away with some decent reliability, especially if they have two turns before I make my rolls. But even so, the warlord trait is as reliable as MOA (so only 1/3) and requires the warlord to be alive as well. With so many units that mostly want to stay off the board (or at least have more control over what turn they come in on) I don't think that I can give up the Comms to gain the shield generator.
And just an FYI, whoever said that the Leviathan detachment can't take a fortification is incorrect. I have the book right in front of me and you have both a LOW slot as well as a fortification slot. So if you wanted to, you could take a Barbed Hierodule, plus LAN, plus a void shield generator. FYI that's a pretty nasty triple threat at range. Trapdoor spider is licking its chops
Good list. That is the type of list I would run - flyrant-spam + pure MSU.
Seems like there is a conflict in the different sources for Leviathan with regards to fortifications.
Iechine wrote: A local 1500pt tourney is this weekend where I DONT want to bring a friendly list. Unfortunately I dont have my Mucolids in the mail yet, so I have to spend some points on rippers.
CAD:
Flyrant w/Devs and electro
Mucolid
Ripper
11x Gargoyle
Hopefully the Gargoyle/Dima/Malanthrope can be a big distraction fex for me while the four Tyrants remove any threats. Barring Mucolids, any ways to make this more cut throat?
4 flyrants @ 1500 is the equivalent of 5 flyrants @ 1850. Don't worry, you've got yourself a list that is definitely NOT friendly.
BTW, flip flop the mucolid with 1 of the rippers from the Leviathan detachment to give yourself 2 ObSec units.
As a matter of fact, I'd recommend swapping out 1 unit of rippers for another mucolid, dropping the gargoyles and getting yourself a tyrannocyte for the dima.
Just a quick question: Why are DS'd ripper taken over walking termagants or just plain old 2-3 Mucaloid Spores? Rippers cost more than gaunts, are ruined by templates, and have unreliable entry.
After playing a game using the Skytyrant Swarm, I don't see a reason to ever go back to Skyblight. Having that at least one melee presence on the table, it is much easier to keep your flyrants and/or harpys alive. I used two 15 gargoyle units (so 30 effective ablative wounds). Best idea ever.
I have tentative plans to go to Darkstar in a couple months. Is it worth it to drop down to 3-4 flyer to take a fex brood? because even though Knights have problems dealing with flyers, I also have a nigh impossible time of killing even one (It's the WD knight with the 3++ melta cannon and re-rolling bull flop)
Soups wrote: Just a quick question: Why are DS'd ripper taken over walking termagants or just plain old 2-3 Mucaloid Spores? Rippers cost more than gaunts, are ruined by templates, and have unreliable entry.
Its primarily the effect of BAO mission objective placement rules. Most objectives end up deep in deployment zones and Gants can't get there very easily, and opponents that don't know what they are doing will often leave rippers alone so they can objective camp. Mucaloid's aren't a very good troop choice because they move, run, and Charge at 1/2 speed, and they can't score.
Soups wrote: Just a quick question: Why are DS'd ripper taken over walking termagants or just plain old 2-3 Mucaloid Spores? Rippers cost more than gaunts, are ruined by templates, and have unreliable entry.
Its primarily the effect of BAO mission objective placement rules. Most objectives end up deep in deployment zones and Gants can't get there very easily, and opponents that don't know what they are doing will often leave rippers alone so they can objective camp. Mucaloid's aren't a very good troop choice because they move, run, and Charge at 1/2 speed, and they can't score.
I always heard the argument that Obsec is over rated (to some), and taking mucolids provides better DSing distraction because no one wants 1-3 Str 8 explody death in their lines, thereby protecting the flyers by distraction. I personally don't think Obsec is important for Nids because I think there is only 1 good troop by itself (Tervigon) or at least a good suicide squad of devilgaunts.
Soups wrote: Just a quick question: Why are DS'd ripper taken over walking termagants or just plain old 2-3 Mucaloid Spores? Rippers cost more than gaunts, are ruined by templates, and have unreliable entry.
Its primarily the effect of BAO mission objective placement rules. Most objectives end up deep in deployment zones and Gants can't get there very easily, and opponents that don't know what they are doing will often leave rippers alone so they can objective camp. Mucaloid's aren't a very good troop choice because they move, run, and Charge at 1/2 speed, and they can't score.
I always heard the argument that Obsec is over rated (to some), and taking mucolids provides better DSing distraction because no one wants 1-3 Str 8 explody death in their lines, thereby protecting the flyers by distraction. I personally don't think Obsec is important for Nids because I think there is only 1 good troop by itself (Tervigon) or at least a good suicide squad of devilgaunts.
Obsec isn't critical, but does have some value. Lictors are a less survivable way to get a deep striking scorer, but they are slightly more reliable. Mucolids are terrifying from a theory hammer point of view, but in game they are more of a novelty.
Traceoftoxin wrote: Rumors of the Deceiver giving a -2 LD bubble makes me ponder integrating one somehow into a nid army with deathleaper's assassin brood, or vice versa.
I'll believe it when I see it. Lol.
I'm thinking more of a Tyranid/Necron Airforce build with:
3x Flryants
3x Mucolids
Necron troops in flyers
Doomscythe formation with 2-4 doom scythes.
Don't know if this is at all possible. I guess we'd just have to wait until the new Necron codex comes out.
Went to a local RTT today. Ended up 4th (of 20) because I screwed up on the Scouring and thought all objectives were worth the same. I lost a game because I landed a flyrant on a 1 point objective instead of a 3 point one. I tabled both of my other opponents. It was a bummer too, because without me at the final table, Eldar Serpent Spam walked away with it.
But the most interesting part of the tourney was an interaction between a Dread Knight and my Barbed Heirodule. I was well on my way to tabling a Grey Knights player. Except for a Dread Knight which is just really really tough to kill. However I took 1 wound off, and was in great position to charge it with my Barbed Heirodule who hadn't suffered a wound yet. I denied force, and he failed Sanctuary, so I figured for sure barbie would be able to kill it. Unfortunately it has higher WS, and I, so it hits 1st. Did 3 Wounds to barbie, and I failed all 3 FNP's, which is ok, because my 6 attacks should be enough. 1 Hit, and I roll a 1 to wound. Well that stank, but I still have stomps. I roll 3 Stomps. (1, 1, and 4). Did a Wound, but it made it save. So I started sweating a bit, if It gets force off I'm dead. Thankfully I deny force again, and he doesn't have enough dice for Santuary after he using cleansing flame on my Flyrants. But the Dread Knight hit 4 times, wounded 4 times, and I failed 4 FNP rolls, and lost the Barbed Heirodule without doing a single wound to the Dread Knight.
I thought that charge was a no-brainer. Statistically, I do 3 wounds and he makes 1 save, and I kill it in the 2nd round of combat having lost 3 wounds myself. If I didn't charge he was probably going to get the charge off on me, and the difference in attacks seemed like a good idea. Did I misplay it? At the end of the game he had the dread knight (one wound left) and 2 purifiers and a single terminator. Meanwhile I lost 2 ripper bases and the barbed heirodule.
The basic idea is to keep the tyrants in that magical 12" border-zone so they never take damage, unless the opponent has interceptor. Especially great if you get onslaught on most/all of the flyrants, so you can still threaten targets mid-board, then FMC-run back to the zone. Still not bad if you end up getting +1 wound on everything. Not sure if it's entirely necessary on the harpy, but a 6 wound harpy is nothing to sneeze at.
StarHunter25 wrote: I've been toying with an "I hate having friends" list recently, by means of hoping for a bunch of good rolls on the Nid's Ace chart.
The basic idea is to keep the tyrants in that magical 12" border-zone so they never take damage, unless the opponent has interceptor. Especially great if you get onslaught on most/all of the flyrants, so you can still threaten targets mid-board, then FMC-run back to the zone. Still not bad if you end up getting +1 wound on everything. Not sure if it's entirely necessary on the harpy, but a 6 wound harpy is nothing to sneeze at.
210 points invested into fighter ace malarky... I'd like to watch that but if you roll hot on 1s and 2s you're going to be close to tears. Theres nothing more depressing than 3 inches more of synapse.
So I came in third at that tourny, but not with the list I wanted. Last time I went to this bunker I didnt bring FW and they said "Oh you could have" and I played against a lot of it, so this time I brought FW and they said "No FW this tourney". : /
Would have been helpful to post on your page.
I had to hastily borrow some models from a friend of mine who had them on display...replacing the Dimachaeron and Malanthrope with a Venom, Lictor, and Tyrannofex. : /
So having a TON of dead weight my flyrants did their best. I maxed every game but the second, which I lost primary on in the last turn by magically not taking the last hull point off a Gorkanaught with a massive amount of Flyrant fire into his rear armor, which was standing on an objective I was ready to take. These things happen.
StarHunter25 wrote: I've been toying with an "I hate having friends" list recently, by means of hoping for a bunch of good rolls on the Nid's Ace chart.
The basic idea is to keep the tyrants in that magical 12" border-zone so they never take damage, unless the opponent has interceptor. Especially great if you get onslaught on most/all of the flyrants, so you can still threaten targets mid-board, then FMC-run back to the zone. Still not bad if you end up getting +1 wound on everything. Not sure if it's entirely necessary on the harpy, but a 6 wound harpy is nothing to sneeze at.
Sadly, you may only upgrade a single model to a flyer ace. So I'd stick that on your warlord, but other than that you have an extra 140 points! Personally I would upgrade that Venom to a Mal and add some Gargs, or trim a few points for a second Crone.
Sadly, you may only upgrade a single model to a flyer ace.
My reading of it is that you get one free Fighter Ace in missions that have the Fighter Aces special rule. If the mission does not have that rule, you can pay 35 points to upgrade "any" eligible model to a Fighter Ace, implying more than one in a regular list.
tag8833 wrote: Went to a local RTT today. Ended up 4th (of 20) because I screwed up on the Scouring and thought all objectives were worth the same. I lost a game because I landed a flyrant on a 1 point objective instead of a 3 point one. I tabled both of my other opponents. It was a bummer too, because without me at the final table, Eldar Serpent Spam walked away with it.
But the most interesting part of the tourney was an interaction between a Dread Knight and my Barbed Heirodule. I was well on my way to tabling a Grey Knights player. Except for a Dread Knight which is just really really tough to kill. However I took 1 wound off, and was in great position to charge it with my Barbed Heirodule who hadn't suffered a wound yet. I denied force, and he failed Sanctuary, so I figured for sure barbie would be able to kill it. Unfortunately it has higher WS, and I, so it hits 1st. Did 3 Wounds to barbie, and I failed all 3 FNP's, which is ok, because my 6 attacks should be enough. 1 Hit, and I roll a 1 to wound. Well that stank, but I still have stomps. I roll 3 Stomps. (1, 1, and 4). Did a Wound, but it made it save. So I started sweating a bit, if It gets force off I'm dead. Thankfully I deny force again, and he doesn't have enough dice for Santuary after he using cleansing flame on my Flyrants. But the Dread Knight hit 4 times, wounded 4 times, and I failed 4 FNP rolls, and lost the Barbed Heirodule without doing a single wound to the Dread Knight.
I thought that charge was a no-brainer. Statistically, I do 3 wounds and he makes 1 save, and I kill it in the 2nd round of combat having lost 3 wounds myself. If I didn't charge he was probably going to get the charge off on me, and the difference in attacks seemed like a good idea. Did I misplay it? At the end of the game he had the dread knight (one wound left) and 2 purifiers and a single terminator. Meanwhile I lost 2 ripper bases and the barbed heirodule.
I don't think you did anything wrong...bad die rolls are not a tactical failing. Just failing 7 FNPs is a anomalous result. Congrats on doing so well despite the wrath of the dice gawds.
tag8833 wrote: Went to a local RTT today. Ended up 4th (of 20) because I screwed up on the Scouring and thought all objectives were worth the same. I lost a game because I landed a flyrant on a 1 point objective instead of a 3 point one. I tabled both of my other opponents. It was a bummer too, because without me at the final table, Eldar Serpent Spam walked away with it.
But the most interesting part of the tourney was an interaction between a Dread Knight and my Barbed Heirodule. I was well on my way to tabling a Grey Knights player. Except for a Dread Knight which is just really really tough to kill. However I took 1 wound off, and was in great position to charge it with my Barbed Heirodule who hadn't suffered a wound yet. I denied force, and he failed Sanctuary, so I figured for sure barbie would be able to kill it. Unfortunately it has higher WS, and I, so it hits 1st. Did 3 Wounds to barbie, and I failed all 3 FNP's, which is ok, because my 6 attacks should be enough. 1 Hit, and I roll a 1 to wound. Well that stank, but I still have stomps. I roll 3 Stomps. (1, 1, and 4). Did a Wound, but it made it save. So I started sweating a bit, if It gets force off I'm dead. Thankfully I deny force again, and he doesn't have enough dice for Santuary after he using cleansing flame on my Flyrants. But the Dread Knight hit 4 times, wounded 4 times, and I failed 4 FNP rolls, and lost the Barbed Heirodule without doing a single wound to the Dread Knight.
I thought that charge was a no-brainer. Statistically, I do 3 wounds and he makes 1 save, and I kill it in the 2nd round of combat having lost 3 wounds myself. If I didn't charge he was probably going to get the charge off on me, and the difference in attacks seemed like a good idea. Did I misplay it? At the end of the game he had the dread knight (one wound left) and 2 purifiers and a single terminator. Meanwhile I lost 2 ripper bases and the barbed heirodule.
Congrats. Nothing you can do about the dice, no matter what the mathhammer says.
But always pay attention to the missions. Otherwise, you'd be kicking yourself because you could have won the game.
Iechine wrote: So I came in third at that tourny, but not with the list I wanted. Last time I went to this bunker I didnt bring FW and they said "Oh you could have" and I played against a lot of it, so this time I brought FW and they said "No FW this tourney". : /
Would have been helpful to post on your page.
I had to hastily borrow some models from a friend of mine who had them on display...replacing the Dimachaeron and Malanthrope with a Venom, Lictor, and Tyrannofex. : /
So having a TON of dead weight my flyrants did their best. I maxed every game but the second, which I lost primary on in the last turn by magically not taking the last hull point off a Gorkanaught with a massive amount of Flyrant fire into his rear armor, which was standing on an objective I was ready to take. These things happen.
I know how you feel, buddy. That happened to me at the BAO 2013. All I had to do was to kill a dreadnought with 12 TL-S6 shots against its AV10 rear armor....and I could only manage 2 glances. That cost me the win.
Crimson Heretic wrote: Can somebody shine some light on the purpose of these units and if they are even worth trying to play?lictors, raveners,trigon, mawloc?
Lictors - great as a harassment, distraction unit. Invaluable in Maelstrom-type scenarios due to their pinpoint deepstriking. Helps to make Tyranids more MSU, though a liability in Purge missions.
Raveners - a very fast and highly dangerous threat, especially if you take them in numbers. However, their poor saves means that if they don't have cover, you're going to lose that unit through volume-of-fire (something Eldar and Tau can easily do with cover-ignoring massed firepower).
Trygon - a 3rd tier Tyranid assault unit, behind the dimachaeron, the Swarmlord and the toxicrene.
Mawloc - a great unit with excellent mobility. The cheapest point-per-wound unit in the Tyranid army and 1 of only 2 large blast AP2 weapons in the codex. He is also used to mess with the enemy deployment and movement.
Crimson Heretic wrote: Can somebody shine some light on the purpose of these units and if they are even worth trying to play?lictors, raveners,trigon, mawloc?
There's some reviews in the first post of this thread you can check out. They're up-to-date.
Iechine wrote: So I came in third at that tourny, but not with the list I wanted. Last time I went to this bunker I didnt bring FW and they said "Oh you could have" and I played against a lot of it, so this time I brought FW and they said "No FW this tourney". : /
Would have been helpful to post on your page.
I had to hastily borrow some models from a friend of mine who had them on display...replacing the Dimachaeron and Malanthrope with a Venom, Lictor, and Tyrannofex. : /
So having a TON of dead weight my flyrants did their best. I maxed every game but the second, which I lost primary on in the last turn by magically not taking the last hull point off a Gorkanaught with a massive amount of Flyrant fire into his rear armor, which was standing on an objective I was ready to take. These things happen.
I know how you feel, buddy. That happened to me at the BAO 2013. All I had to do was to kill a dreadnought with 12 TL-S6 shots against its AV10 rear armor....and I could only manage 2 glances. That cost me the win.
Think that's bad?
I put 36 twin-linked devourer shots from Flyrants into the rear of a Valkyrie at Cally and only did 1 hull point. Which led to me losing the game!
So, I played a 2k tournament today with double Skyblight and triple sporefield formations. Skyblight was mean and 60 re spawning gargoyles were too much for my opponents on maelstrom missions. Smart players went for the hive tyrants first and I was left without synapse for two turns one game, but was actually not too bad. Gargoyles gone to ground on an objective was a plus most of the time. Triple Sporefield is cool, but infiltrating them did nothing other than create a wall mid board my opponent couldn't cross. Setting up 18" was too far to realistically reach any gun line army. Most players just wrote off my table half unless they could drop pod or fly behind with a flyer so it did good for board manipulation. I might try them again and deep strike all of them instead.
pinecone77 wrote: Congrats on doing so well despite the wrath of the dice gawds.
I'm great at getting 3-5th. In fact, I've never placed outside that range in my relatively few(5) tourney appearances. I usually run into Tau, and drop 1 game, and beat the rest of my opponents handily. This tourney had 3 Tau players, but I probably could have handled 2 of the 3. The player who normally is my Tau Nemesis was the judge and thus not playing.
It was an interesting Meta. 3 Tau, 1 Eldar, and 1 Dark Eldar / Eldar, and the only losses any of them had were to each other. I would have been demolished by 1 of the Tau lists, and it would have been an uphill battle vs the other 2, but the Eldar lists that won would have been easy. The Dark Eldar player was a potential bad matchup (7 Venoms, 2 Fliers, Deep Striking Fire Dragons) I might have been able to beat it, but I really don't know.
The Grey Knights player is my hero. He runs a bit of everything, and always wins dirty. At the end of 5 he never has more than a few models left alive, and yet almost always wins unless the game goes on and he is tabled.
I ran a RTT yesterday, and had a crazy ringer list with me to play the Byes if they wished. It was 1850.
Primary - CAD (tyranids)
Flyrant Mucolid 3x Rippers Harridan
CtA Ally - Imperial Knights
Cerastus Lancer Cerastus Acheron
I had 8 models. In both of the games i ended up playing I tabled or nearly tabled the other player. However since it was a bye, they got points for the round regardless of the result. I have to say, It's not a list i'd bring for a friendly or casual game but it made me feel really powerful using it.
I'm playing against a Grey Knights player later today for our weekly casual league. He's been a bit cocky lately when facing tyranids, as our other tyranid player is still fairly new and not able to win very often. Here's what i'm taking with me to show him up (hopefully) today:
Exocrine ----------- He enjoys using Draigo and Terminators, and Dreadknights mostly. I feel like my list will have the tools needed to handle the challenge. I'll check back in with results later.
I played a 1250 point game last week and feel like I punted it for the loss... :-/
I had 2 Flyrants, 4 Dakkafexes, Malanthrope, 2 Mucolids.
He had the 500 point Knight, 4 Thunderwolves (2 fists), 2 Dreads with hellfrost cannons, Bjorn with a hellfrost cannon, in a formation where they all get 5++.
He got first turn but flubbed on all his hellfrost rolls and rolled a 12" for the scatter on the Knight. I wanted first blood so 2 Flyrants and 2 Dakkafexes (that were Onslaughted) should've killed one of the Dreadnaughts... but I only ended up doing a single hull point.
Throughout the game, Gerantius never had to make a single invul save - because it was pointless to shoot the Devs at him and my Warp Blast literally never hit.
My Carnifexes were absolutely useless in CC - the Thunderwolves slaughtered them without losing a single wound.
Please tell me my dice failed me. I'm not sure I can handle sucking that bad. I ended up killing 2 dreadnaughts and leaving the Thunderwolves with a single model, getting tabled on turn 7 (because I decided to charge Bjorn with Gerry 7" away instead of flying off to shoot Bjorn in the rear).
Incognito15 wrote: Hey all i am new to nids and have an 1850 tournament coming up. I own two hive tyrants and no forgeworld otherwise i have most models.
If you werent flyrant spamming what would you take? Do you feel like a venomthrope is nessecary?
Definitely include the venomthrope if you are not running the malanthrope. As a matter of fact, consider running either 2 of the venoms or getting a fortification (bastion or bunker) to house him in.
Then fill out the rest of the army with these units, depending on which you like:
Flyrants - when you get more
Zoanthropes (warp charge battery and backfield Synapse)
Dakkafexes (in tyrannocytes)
Tervigon (in tyrannocytes)
Ripper Swarms
Mucolids
Termagants
Gargoyles
Biovores
Tyrannofex (in tyrannocytes)
Dimachaeron (in tyrannocytes) - even though you don't have the model, he is a good assault unit to consider
Mawlocs
Living Artillery formation
Barbed Hierodule
nidsNguard wrote: Didn't see the Toxicrene on the main page. Whats the thoughts of that vs the Dimachaeron?
I'll put out the review for it later today.
The consensus of most Tyranid players is that the Dimachaeron is the best Tyranid assault unit in the army. Everything else is secondary, including the toxicrene. However, the toxicrene is 50-pts cheaper so if you're on a "budget", then consider the toxicrene as an assault unit. But if you can afford it, go for the dimachaeron instead.
pinecone77 wrote: Congrats on doing so well despite the wrath of the dice gawds.
I'm great at getting 3-5th. In fact, I've never placed outside that range in my relatively few(5) tourney appearances. I usually run into Tau, and drop 1 game, and beat the rest of my opponents handily. This tourney had 3 Tau players, but I probably could have handled 2 of the 3. The player who normally is my Tau Nemesis was the judge and thus not playing.
It was an interesting Meta. 3 Tau, 1 Eldar, and 1 Dark Eldar / Eldar, and the only losses any of them had were to each other. I would have been demolished by 1 of the Tau lists, and it would have been an uphill battle vs the other 2, but the Eldar lists that won would have been easy. The Dark Eldar player was a potential bad matchup (7 Venoms, 2 Fliers, Deep Striking Fire Dragons) I might have been able to beat it, but I really don't know.
The Grey Knights player is my hero. He runs a bit of everything, and always wins dirty. At the end of 5 he never has more than a few models left alive, and yet almost always wins unless the game goes on and he is tabled.
Why would you consider his (the GK player's) wins to be dirty? I'd consider it either brilliant or damn lucky, but not dirty.
tetrisphreak wrote: I ran a RTT yesterday, and had a crazy ringer list with me to play the Byes if they wished. It was 1850.
Primary - CAD (tyranids)
Flyrant
Mucolid
3x Rippers
Harridan
CtA Ally - Imperial Knights
Cerastus Lancer
Cerastus Acheron
I had 8 models. In both of the games i ended up playing I tabled or nearly tabled the other player. However since it was a bye, they got points for the round regardless of the result. I have to say, It's not a list i'd bring for a friendly or casual game but it made me feel really powerful using it.
I'm playing against a Grey Knights player later today for our weekly casual league. He's been a bit cocky lately when facing tyranids, as our other tyranid player is still fairly new and not able to win very often. Here's what i'm taking with me to show him up (hopefully) today:
-----------
He enjoys using Draigo and Terminators, and Dreadknights mostly. I feel like my list will have the tools needed to handle the challenge. I'll check back in with results later.
Good list. However, you could really use a tyrannocyte for your dimachaeron.
rigeld2 wrote: I played a 1250 point game last week and feel like I punted it for the loss... :-/
I had 2 Flyrants, 4 Dakkafexes, Malanthrope, 2 Mucolids.
He had the 500 point Knight, 4 Thunderwolves (2 fists), 2 Dreads with hellfrost cannons, Bjorn with a hellfrost cannon, in a formation where they all get 5++.
He got first turn but flubbed on all his hellfrost rolls and rolled a 12" for the scatter on the Knight. I wanted first blood so 2 Flyrants and 2 Dakkafexes (that were Onslaughted) should've killed one of the Dreadnaughts... but I only ended up doing a single hull point.
Throughout the game, Gerantius never had to make a single invul save - because it was pointless to shoot the Devs at him and my Warp Blast literally never hit.
My Carnifexes were absolutely useless in CC - the Thunderwolves slaughtered them without losing a single wound.
Please tell me my dice failed me. I'm not sure I can handle sucking that bad. I ended up killing 2 dreadnaughts and leaving the Thunderwolves with a single model, getting tabled on turn 7 (because I decided to charge Bjorn with Gerry 7" away instead of flying off to shoot Bjorn in the rear).
Ok, your dice failed you, so please stop sucking so bad. Haha.... j.k.!
@Jy2 - thanks for the input! I considered a tyrannocyte on the Dima but I've seen this guy play and he typically deep strikes close with his terminators and draigo. I figure if he's coming to me, i can save points on the pod and just deploy the Dimachaeron. The only thing that i'm worried about is a lucky gatling psilencer with force one-shotting any of my MC's but that's just a risk i'll have to take. (3 to hit, 6 to wound, and then fail a 3+ save or 2+ cover save (if possible)).
He was wondering why we don't just open the floodgates and allow unlimited detachments in tournament play (though still with the limit of 0-1 for each detachment) and how my Pentyrant Tyranid would change in such a case.
And here is my response:
"Actually, without a limit to detachments (and assuming 0-1 for each detachment), I wouldn't even call it Pentyrant list anymore. And honestly, I probably won't be running the running the Sporefield formation. Instead I would run something like this:
Wall of Martyrs Imperial Defence Emplacement w/1 extra Barricade
Tyranid Allies:
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Mucolid
Eldar Allies:
Farseer - Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Spirit Stones of Anath'lan
3x Windrider Jetbikes
This abomination of a list may be weak in Maelstrom objectives, at least initially, but it will get stronger later in the game. Flyrants will control/limit the movement of the enemy. With 15 Warp Dice base, Mantleseer will zip around and reliably summon daemons wherever they are needed. It gets stronger and stronger in Maelstrom objectives over time, that is, if it even matters (or should I say, if the opponent doesn't get tabled by the flyrants).
Without limits, abomination lists like these would become reality. There are more - much, much more - but this is just 1 example off the top of my head about a list that I could realistically run in such a case. "
Incognito15 wrote: Hey all i am new to nids and have an 1850 tournament coming up. I own two hive tyrants and no forgeworld otherwise i have most models.
If you werent flyrant spamming what would you take? Do you feel like a venomthrope is nessecary?
Yes, shrouding is too dang good not to take. I have posted a dozen or so lists that only use two Tyrants, so you might take a look and see if it gives you any ideas. What are the perameters of the Tourney? That would help us give better advice.
Jy2 just to be fair, if tournaments "opened up" their comp to true 7th (with a 0-1 limit per unique detachments) then your sextyrant list is illegal. An ally detachment cannot have the same faction as your primary. I know BAO changes this rule, but if the format shifted to open everything up I cannot see why BAO would maintain self-allying.
Edit - also players are already doing daemon-summoning eldar lists even with current comp systems.
tetrisphreak wrote: Jy2 just to be fair, if tournaments "opened up" their comp to true 7th (with a 0-1 limit per unique detachments) then your sextyrant list is illegal. An ally detachment cannot have the same faction as your primary. I know BAO changes this rule, but if the format shifted to open everything up I cannot see why BAO would maintain self-allying.
Edit - also players are already doing daemon-summoning eldar lists even with current comp systems.
But then couldn't you just replace the Allied Bugs with a SkyTyrant? ... Yeah Warhammer is so poorly ballenced, that going all "cra-cra" is easy...I was thinking a Leviathan list with a Gargant run by Stealer hybrid Meks...
tetrisphreak wrote: Jy2 just to be fair, if tournaments "opened up" their comp to true 7th (with a 0-1 limit per unique detachments) then your sextyrant list is illegal. An ally detachment cannot have the same faction as your primary. I know BAO changes this rule, but if the format shifted to open everything up I cannot see why BAO would maintain self-allying.
Edit - also players are already doing daemon-summoning eldar lists even with current comp systems.
Well, if the BAO opened up their format, it's all just speculation on what they would or would not do. I don't know for sure whether they would or would not allow for self-allies. However, I am basing my list on their current composition, but just expanded to allow for more unique detachments. And in such a case, allowing the current trend of self-allying is certainly a reasonable assumption to make.
But really, the list is just hypothetical. There are no actual rules governing how it could actually function in a comped environment, other than assumptions you are speculating upon.
And yes, Daemon summoning lists already exist. Though how many also do Daemon summoning backed by 6 flyrants?
pinecone77 wrote: Congrats on doing so well despite the wrath of the dice gawds.
I'm great at getting 3-5th. In fact, I've never placed outside that range in my relatively few(5) tourney appearances. I usually run into Tau, and drop 1 game, and beat the rest of my opponents handily. This tourney had 3 Tau players, but I probably could have handled 2 of the 3. The player who normally is my Tau Nemesis was the judge and thus not playing.
It was an interesting Meta. 3 Tau, 1 Eldar, and 1 Dark Eldar / Eldar, and the only losses any of them had were to each other. I would have been demolished by 1 of the Tau lists, and it would have been an uphill battle vs the other 2, but the Eldar lists that won would have been easy. The Dark Eldar player was a potential bad matchup (7 Venoms, 2 Fliers, Deep Striking Fire Dragons) I might have been able to beat it, but I really don't know.
The Grey Knights player is my hero. He runs a bit of everything, and always wins dirty. At the end of 5 he never has more than a few models left alive, and yet almost always wins unless the game goes on and he is tabled.
Why would you consider his (the GK player's) wins to be dirty? I'd consider it either brilliant or damn lucky, but not dirty.
I meant dirty in that he never has much left at the end of the game. He isn't dishonest at all, he just grinds it out without any flash and pulls victories out based on superior generalship. He went 2-1 with his only loss being a turn 7 tabling by the overall Champion Eldar, and he would have won that game if it ended on 5, and tied it at the end of 6. The last tourney that I saw him play at he went 3-0, but got 2nd because of battle points. When he played AD Lance with Necron Flying Circus he only got 4 battle points.
One of my biggest dissatisfaction with Tyranids is the inability to run a board control, grind-it-out sort of list in Eternal War missions. If I want to compete with Tau and Eldar, I've got to get big, get flashy, and blow them off the table or lose, and even then, many Tau lists are unbeatable unless the opponent isn't prepared for me. Maelstrom fixes that, allowing me to punish Tau and Eldar for their gunline (but totally mobile, so I guess not Gunline?) ways.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jy2 wrote: I was discussing with another player in my battle report thread:
He was wondering why we don't just open the floodgates and allow unlimited detachments in tournament play (though still with the limit of 0-1 for each detachment) and how my Pentyrant Tyranid would change in such a case.
And here is my response:
"Actually, without a limit to detachments (and assuming 0-1 for each detachment), I wouldn't even call it Pentyrant list anymore. And honestly, I probably won't be running the running the Sporefield formation. Instead I would run something like this:
Wall of Martyrs Imperial Defence Emplacement w/1 extra Barricade
Tyranid Allies:
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Mucolid
Eldar Allies:
Farseer - Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Spirit Stones of Anath'lan
3x Windrider Jetbikes
This abomination of a list may be weak in Maelstrom objectives, at least initially, but it will get stronger later in the game. Flyrants will control/limit the movement of the enemy. With 15 Warp Dice base, Mantleseer will zip around and reliably summon daemons wherever they are needed. It gets stronger and stronger in Maelstrom objectives over time, that is, if it even matters (or should I say, if the opponent doesn't get tabled by the flyrants).
Without limits, abomination lists like these would become reality. There are more - much, much more - but this is just 1 example off the top of my head about a list that I could realistically run in such a case. "
So your position is the 5 flyrants is great, but 6 is too much, and shouldn't be allowed by Army Composition rules?
From my point of view any Army Composition rules that allow more than 3 Flyrants has serious problems for meaningful and fun competitive play.
pinecone77 wrote: Congrats on doing so well despite the wrath of the dice gawds.
I'm great at getting 3-5th. In fact, I've never placed outside that range in my relatively few(5) tourney appearances. I usually run into Tau, and drop 1 game, and beat the rest of my opponents handily. This tourney had 3 Tau players, but I probably could have handled 2 of the 3. The player who normally is my Tau Nemesis was the judge and thus not playing.
It was an interesting Meta. 3 Tau, 1 Eldar, and 1 Dark Eldar / Eldar, and the only losses any of them had were to each other. I would have been demolished by 1 of the Tau lists, and it would have been an uphill battle vs the other 2, but the Eldar lists that won would have been easy. The Dark Eldar player was a potential bad matchup (7 Venoms, 2 Fliers, Deep Striking Fire Dragons) I might have been able to beat it, but I really don't know.
The Grey Knights player is my hero. He runs a bit of everything, and always wins dirty. At the end of 5 he never has more than a few models left alive, and yet almost always wins unless the game goes on and he is tabled.
Why would you consider his (the GK player's) wins to be dirty? I'd consider it either brilliant or damn lucky, but not dirty.
I meant dirty in that he never has much left at the end of the game. He isn't dishonest at all, he just grinds it out without any flash and pulls victories out based on superior generalship. He went 2-1 with his only loss being a turn 7 tabling by the overall Champion Eldar, and he would have won that game if it ended on 5, and tied it at the end of 6. The last tourney that I saw him play at he went 3-0, but got 2nd because of battle points. When he played AD Lance with Necron Flying Circus he only got 4 battle points.
One of my biggest dissatisfaction with Tyranids is the inability to run a board control, grind-it-out sort of list in Eternal War missions. If I want to compete with Tau and Eldar, I've got to get big, get flashy, and blow them off the table or lose, and even then, many Tau lists are unbeatable unless the opponent isn't prepared for me. Maelstrom fixes that, allowing me to punish Tau and Eldar for their gunline (but totally mobile, so I guess not Gunline?) ways.
Yeah, that's what I assumed you meant. Still, I don't think the term you are looking for is "dirty". It kind of has a negative connotation to it. I think a more suitable term is a "grind-out".
So your position is the 5 flyrants is great, but 6 is too much, and shouldn't be allowed by Army Composition rules?
From my point of view any Army Composition rules that allow more than 3 Flyrants has serious problems for meaningful and fun competitive play.
My position is that you can build some crazy sh*t with unlimited detachments. Now whether one is better than the other is somewhat subjective and everyone has different "standards" with regards to what they consider cheesy. But regardless, more freedom = more craziness.
So if the new Quantam shielding rumours are true (AV13 all around but loses it upon being glanced), what would be the best list to bring against Necrons? Same old Flyrant spam?
EDIT: Apparently it goes away after the first pen, so no more Devourer shots into the rear. No Carnifex = no party?
Frozocrone wrote: So if the new Quantam shielding rumours are true (AV13 all around but loses it upon being glanced), what would be the best list to bring against Necrons? Same old Flyrant spam?
EDIT: Apparently it goes away after the first pen, so no more Devourer shots into the rear. No Carnifex = no party?
I really don't want to speculate on this until we've got concrete rules from the new dex....but if it were true, then we're screwed!
Haha....not really. We'll find a way.
So AV13 quantum shielding all the way around? Whoa....that's pretty good. As a Necron player also, I sure hope that's true.
He was wondering why we don't just open the floodgates and allow unlimited detachments in tournament play (though still with the limit of 0-1 for each detachment) and how my Pentyrant Tyranid would change in such a case.
And here is my response:
"Actually, without a limit to detachments (and assuming 0-1 for each detachment), I wouldn't even call it Pentyrant list anymore. And honestly, I probably won't be running the running the Sporefield formation. Instead I would run something like this:
Wall of Martyrs Imperial Defence Emplacement w/1 extra Barricade
Tyranid Allies:
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Mucolid
Eldar Allies:
Farseer - Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Spirit Stones of Anath'lan
3x Windrider Jetbikes
This abomination of a list may be weak in Maelstrom objectives, at least initially, but it will get stronger later in the game. Flyrants will control/limit the movement of the enemy. With 15 Warp Dice base, Mantleseer will zip around and reliably summon daemons wherever they are needed. It gets stronger and stronger in Maelstrom objectives over time, that is, if it even matters (or should I say, if the opponent doesn't get tabled by the flyrants).
Without limits, abomination lists like these would become reality. There are more - much, much more - but this is just 1 example off the top of my head about a list that I could realistically run in such a case. "
Don't limit the detachments. Instead limit the factions you are allowed to play. I think this is where most people get hung up on. Your bugs couldn't summon daemons then. Try unlimited detachments, but a hard lock on only one faction allowed per player. Then the mythical cheese beast loses his teeth.
Don't limit the detachments. Instead limit the factions you are allowed to play. I think this is where most people get hung up on. Your bugs couldn't summon daemons then. Try unlimited detachments, but a hard lock on only one faction allowed per player. Then the mythical cheese beast loses his teeth.
That's going to cause even more of an uproar. So no CSM + Daemons? No Eldar + Dark Eldar? No GK's + Space Marines? Man, I'm not going down that rabbit-hole!
astro_nomicon wrote: I don't think many players would be happy about completely losing allies this far into the game.
If they banned the allies matrix tomorrow, I'd be fine with it.
Actually, I'd be fine with it also. I'm more of a purist and wouldn't mind strolling down 5th Edition memory lane.
Of course we all know that isn't going to fly with most gamers, not after all the time and money they've invested into their "Secondary" armies. Once you give someone a taste of the good stuff, it's going to be damn hard to get him to stop. #plasticcrack
DarthDiggler wrote: Don't limit the detachments. Instead limit the factions you are allowed to play. I think this is where most people get hung up on. Your bugs couldn't summon daemons then. Try unlimited detachments, but a hard lock on only one faction allowed per player. Then the mythical cheese beast loses his teeth.
I'm not thrilled with that as a solution either. It promotes even more spam, i.e. even more unbalanced lists and Rock-Paper-40k.
I think it would be simpler to have unlocking detachments (before you can take a 2nd HS, you must take an Elite and FA), Percentage limits, or Rarity classification. My favorite idea is Douche points, but that is politically untenable in the foreseeable future. Honestly there are thousands of ways to fix the mess that is army Comp.
Don't limit the detachments. Instead limit the factions you are allowed to play. I think this is where most people get hung up on. Your bugs couldn't summon daemons then. Try unlimited detachments, but a hard lock on only one faction allowed per player. Then the mythical cheese beast loses his teeth.
That's going to cause even more of an uproar. So no CSM + Daemons? No Eldar + Dark Eldar? No GK's + Space Marines? Man, I'm not going down that rabbit-hole!
astro_nomicon wrote: I don't think many players would be happy about completely losing allies this far into the game.
If they banned the allies matrix tomorrow, I'd be fine with it.
Actually, I'd be fine with it also. I'm more of a purist and wouldn't mind strolling down 5th Edition memory lane.
Of course we all know that isn't going to fly with most gamers, not after all the time and money they've invested into their "Secondary" armies. Once you give someone a taste of the good stuff, it's going to be damn hard to get him to stop. #plasticcrack
GK and Marines are the same faction right? So they could still ally together.
How much Eldar does Frankie have in his DE lists?? It's not like these factions can not stand on their own. Instead of using other allies to solve problems, people will have to use formations and detachments within their own faction. It keeps servo skulls out of Tyranid lists. It keeps farseers from summoning Daemons off of Tyranid Warp Charges. It eliminates a lot of what people imagine the worst of 40k is right now.
DarthDiggler wrote: Don't limit the detachments. Instead limit the factions you are allowed to play. I think this is where most people get hung up on. Your bugs couldn't summon daemons then. Try unlimited detachments, but a hard lock on only one faction allowed per player. Then the mythical cheese beast loses his teeth.
I'm not thrilled with that as a solution either. It promotes even more spam, i.e. even more unbalanced lists and Rock-Paper-40k.
I think it would be simpler to have unlocking detachments (before you can take a 2nd HS, you must take an Elite and FA), Percentage limits, or Rarity classification. My favorite idea is Douche points, but that is politically untenable in the foreseeable future. Honestly there are thousands of ways to fix the mess that is army Comp.
I disagree. I do not think it increases spam, but instead will reduce it. A player could not spam the two best units from two separate factions (Eldar and Tau) which might compliment each other weaknesses. Now if Eldar just spam their own best unit, they run into more problems with a hard counter. This will eliminate that type of spamming, at least from someone trying to win best general.
I think a one faction rule will allow TAC lists (which are notoriously un-spammy) to thrive again.
GK and Marines are the same faction right? So they could still ally together.
How much Eldar does Frankie have in his DE lists?? It's not like these factions can not stand on their own. Instead of using other allies to solve problems, people will have to use formations and detachments within their own faction. It keeps servo skulls out of Tyranid lists. It keeps farseers from summoning Daemons off of Tyranid Warp Charges. It eliminates a lot of what people imagine the worst of 40k is right now.
DarthDiggler wrote: Don't limit the detachments. Instead limit the factions you are allowed to play. I think this is where most people get hung up on. Your bugs couldn't summon daemons then. Try unlimited detachments, but a hard lock on only one faction allowed per player. Then the mythical cheese beast loses his teeth.
I'm not thrilled with that as a solution either. It promotes even more spam, i.e. even more unbalanced lists and Rock-Paper-40k.
I think it would be simpler to have unlocking detachments (before you can take a 2nd HS, you must take an Elite and FA), Percentage limits, or Rarity classification. My favorite idea is Douche points, but that is politically untenable in the foreseeable future. Honestly there are thousands of ways to fix the mess that is army Comp.
I disagree. I do not think it increases spam, but instead will reduce it. A player could not spam the two best units from two separate factions (Eldar and Tau) which might compliment each other weaknesses. Now if Eldar just spam their own best unit, they run into more problems with a hard counter. This will eliminate that type of spamming, at least from someone trying to win best general.
I think a one faction rule will allow TAC lists (which are notoriously un-spammy) to thrive again.
That rule would favor Imperial armies to a ridiculous extent, as Imperials are the only "faction" in the galaxy that have like 10 different codexes to choose from. Every other faction would be limited to one codex (or codex + supplement in the case of Iyanden/Farsight Enclaves lists). I can't really see this as anything other than a pro IOM rule.
Okay so, I used a Crone last night and was pretty underwhelmed. This was probably down in no small part to me thinking it could launch 4 missles + vect strike in one turn, when in fact it can fire 2 missles or 1 and vector strike. With its potential for anti air/armour much lesser than what I expected, I just wanted to ask how others tend to play it?
Benlisted wrote: Okay so, I used a Crone last night and was pretty underwhelmed. This was probably down in no small part to me thinking it could launch 4 missles + vect strike in one turn, when in fact it can fire 2 missles or 1 and vector strike. With its potential for anti air/armour much lesser than what I expected, I just wanted to ask how others tend to play it?
What else did you have in your list?
At the moment I'm loving 3 Flyrants, Skytyrant and 2 Crones. Crones thrive off redundancy in my experience.
Benlisted wrote: Okay so, I used a Crone last night and was pretty underwhelmed. This was probably down in no small part to me thinking it could launch 4 missles + vect strike in one turn, when in fact it can fire 2 missles or 1 and vector strike. With its potential for anti air/armour much lesser than what I expected, I just wanted to ask how others tend to play it?
What else did you have in your list?
At the moment I'm loving 3 Flyrants, Skytyrant and 2 Crones. Crones thrive off redundancy in my experience.
Well I guess that's part of the issue, I'm testing a Highlander list, so 1 Flyrant, 1 Crone! I guess that changes things, but I can certainly see the value in it with more fliers.
Benlisted wrote: Okay so, I used a Crone last night and was pretty underwhelmed. This was probably down in no small part to me thinking it could launch 4 missles + vect strike in one turn, when in fact it can fire 2 missles or 1 and vector strike. With its potential for anti air/armour much lesser than what I expected, I just wanted to ask how others tend to play it?
What else did you have in your list?
At the moment I'm loving 3 Flyrants, Skytyrant and 2 Crones. Crones thrive off redundancy in my experience.
Well I guess that's part of the issue, I'm testing a Highlander list, so 1 Flyrant, 1 Crone! I guess that changes things, but I can certainly see the value in it with more fliers.
Yeah Crones will struggle in Highlander, are you testing it against other Highlander lists?
Which list do I choose for a 1500 point tourney mission will be maelstrom or standard mission or a mix we don’t know. I expect something like the ETC missions.
I was going to take my space wolves but with a busy social life they aren’t ready so I’m going back to my nids who I’ve done reasonably well with.
However, I haven’t played nids for about six months so don’t have any of the new models so I don’t have DImachaeron, Muclids, Barbed Heirodule, Malanthrope, or Tyrannocytes, (after the new codex came out I move house twice and threw out my old spore pods ).
Apart from a harpy I have every unit in the codex.
So which list is best?
List 1, Hive Guard have always done well for m, as t6 and impaler cannons surprise opponents, I know they aren’t top tier. Idea is to have air superiorty backed up with shooting from the fexes and hive guard, gaunts bubble wrap and tarpit and ripper swarms deep strike onto objectives.
HQ.
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, Warlord. 240
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, 240
Troops
30 Termagants, Fleshborers, 120
3 ripper swarms, deep strike, 45
3 ripper swarms, deep strike, 45
3 ripper swarms, deep strike, 45
Fast attack
Hive Crone, 155
Heavy Support
2 x Carnifex, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. 300
Total points 1500
List 2. Probably more mobile with lictor and Mawloc, Mawloc has never done very well for me before but he is a big psychological threat. I think this list would be much stronger for the maelstorm games.
HQ.
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, Warlord. 240
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, 240
Benlisted wrote: Okay so, I used a Crone last night and was pretty underwhelmed. This was probably down in no small part to me thinking it could launch 4 missles + vect strike in one turn, when in fact it can fire 2 missles or 1 and vector strike. With its potential for anti air/armour much lesser than what I expected, I just wanted to ask how others tend to play it?
What else did you have in your list?
At the moment I'm loving 3 Flyrants, Skytyrant and 2 Crones. Crones thrive off redundancy in my experience.
Well I guess that's part of the issue, I'm testing a Highlander list, so 1 Flyrant, 1 Crone! I guess that changes things, but I can certainly see the value in it with more fliers.
Yeah Crones will struggle in Highlander, are you testing it against other Highlander lists?
What's the Highlander event you are testing for?
A 1500pt one with some heavy restrictions: no more than 1 of each troop, no formations, one CAD only + allies, 2 sources max. There is no first blood but you instead get points for denying StW and Linebreaker. It's actually been very difficult to write a solid list... I'm going with:
6 Shrikes (RC/ST and either AG or FH, not decided)
6 Raveners (RC)
Crone
Carnifex, 2x TL-Devs Tyrannocyte (normally for Zoans)
I'm uncertain on the Zoans, Fex and Crone (and Deathleaper to an extent) - the aim of the list is to get up in my opponent's face and overload them with threats, which it does quite well, but the listed units have been underperforming a little. I need to playtest more.
Benlisted wrote: Okay so, I used a Crone last night and was pretty underwhelmed. This was probably down in no small part to me thinking it could launch 4 missles + vect strike in one turn, when in fact it can fire 2 missles or 1 and vector strike. With its potential for anti air/armour much lesser than what I expected, I just wanted to ask how others tend to play it?
Well, it is not a Super unit...it works best in pairs. It's golden age was way back when folks could only get a couple of Tyrants into a list, so the short comings were more tolerable.
That being said it can be very good, Haywire is one of the few dependable Anti armor (AV 13+) we have, and even with the nurfs, a S8 vector strike is still dang nice. Add in a acid spray and you have a monster that can do work in all phases of the game.
I find them a mite overpriced. but they are still more likely to contribute than a Harpy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hivefleethannibal wrote: Which list do I choose for a 1500 point tourney mission will be maelstrom or standard mission or a mix we don’t know. I expect something like the ETC missions.
I was going to take my space wolves but with a busy social life they aren’t ready so I’m going back to my nids who I’ve done reasonably well with.
However, I haven’t played nids for about six months so don’t have any of the new models so I don’t have DImachaeron, Muclids, Barbed Heirodule, Malanthrope, or Tyrannocytes, (after the new codex came out I move house twice and threw out my old spore pods ).
Apart from a harpy I have every unit in the codex.
So which list is best?
List 1, Hive Guard have always done well for m, as t6 and impaler cannons surprise opponents, I know they aren’t top tier. Idea is to have air superiorty backed up with shooting from the fexes and hive guard, gaunts bubble wrap and tarpit and ripper swarms deep strike onto objectives.
HQ.
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, Warlord. 240
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, 240
Troops
30 Termagants, Fleshborers, 120
3 ripper swarms, deep strike, 45
3 ripper swarms, deep strike, 45
3 ripper swarms, deep strike, 45
Fast attack
Hive Crone, 155
Heavy Support
2 x Carnifex, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. 300
Total points 1500
List 2. Probably more mobile with lictor and Mawloc, Mawloc has never done very well for me before but he is a big psychological threat. I think this list would be much stronger for the maelstorm games.
HQ.
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, Warlord. 240
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Electroshock grubs, Twin liked devourers with brain leech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. Level 2 psycher, 240
Heavy Support
2 x Carnifex, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms, twin linked devourers with brainleech worms. 300
Mawloc 140
Total points 1500
I like list two, because I like Mawloc, though I would swap one Brood of Termagants for Hormagaunts. But that is a "style" thing. List one I think I would trim one Hive Guard, and some Termagants and grab a Mawloc...
Something i found fun in a small game (Maelstrom league, escalation)...
Dropping a Tervigon in a nidsack.
You all of a sudden have a pair of monstrous creatures and a small swarm of gants to eat up space on the board. A great way to cover multiple objectives.
A quick question for those of you who are using the SkyTyrant Swarm formation (Hive Tyrant + Gargoyles).
How do you handle the love-hate relationship of Gargoyles and terrain? By this I mean that Gargoyles have such a crappy armour save, they really want to be in terrain to increase their survivability. But being Jump Infantry, this means that each model needs to take a dangerous terrain test when *ending* its move in terrain, and also when *starting* its move in terrain.
Realistically that would mean that each Gargoyle has about a 13% chance of dying to terrain every time it moves. And with a footprint as big as that Swarm, it's not unrealistic to think that the unit won't clear some terrain pieces in one go, and thus need multiple tests.
It would seem that you lose a lot of Gargoyles that way, just by moving. So how do you guys handle this? Do you avoid terrain, and rely on a 5+ cover save from Malanthropes? Or do you hug terrain anyway, and accept the inevitable losses?
Polkadragon wrote: A quick question for those of you who are using the SkyTyrant Swarm formation (Hive Tyrant + Gargoyles).
How do you handle the love-hate relationship of Gargoyles and terrain? By this I mean that Gargoyles have such a crappy armour save, they really want to be in terrain to increase their survivability. But being Jump Infantry, this means that each model needs to take a dangerous terrain test when *ending* its move in terrain, and also when *starting* its move in terrain.
Realistically that would mean that each Gargoyle has about a 13% chance of dying to terrain every time it moves. And with a footprint as big as that Swarm, it's not unrealistic to think that the unit won't clear some terrain pieces in one go, and thus need multiple tests.
It would seem that you lose a lot of Gargoyles that way, just by moving. So how do you guys handle this? Do you avoid terrain, and rely on a 5+ cover save from Malanthropes? Or do you hug terrain anyway, and accept the inevitable losses?
cheers
Sam
When possible, take intervening Terrain over area with Gargoyles. Also, don't put the entire unit in terrain, just the front 8-9. If he's punching through that many 2/3++ cover saves (assuming a Malanthrope) then he isn't shooting much at anything else. Finally, you can land your gargoyles right in front of terrain and then run them in, meaning you only have to take a test to leave, not to enter.
Hey guys! I tried Nids back early in 7th, but I had to stop 40k for a bit. (Excuse my noob questions, I like Nids but don't much about them)
I had a real hard time dealing with AV12/13/14 with our standard Flyrant, Devourers, eGrubs, Dakkafex lists.
Has things changed? I understand eGrubs is a good way to deal with it but it's not 100% chance to take off HP. And in the end your only running 2 or 3 Flyrants in a list for 2-3 eGrubs chances... How do you vet nid players deal with AV12-14 consistently? Wave Serpents even... ugh >_< Such a PITA
Also, how do you deal with the likes of MCs like Wraithknights spams or Triptide? Is the answer shoot them a lot? Our S6 vs T8 of a Wraithknight doesn't seem very efficient... thoughts on this as well?
Looking forward to your answers! I'm trying to get back into 40k and trying to decide on what army to start up. My meta is pretty competitive and would like to be able to roll with the top armies like White Scars, Eldar, Daemons/CSM and Tau that keep placing up there.
TLDR:
1) How do standard Nid lists deal with AV12/13/14 reliably? Wave Serpents spam too?
2) How to deal with MCs like Nurgle Daemons, Wraithknights and to a lesser extent TripTide?
Polkadragon wrote: A quick question for those of you who are using the SkyTyrant Swarm formation (Hive Tyrant + Gargoyles).
How do you handle the love-hate relationship of Gargoyles and terrain? By this I mean that Gargoyles have such a crappy armour save, they really want to be in terrain to increase their survivability. But being Jump Infantry, this means that each model needs to take a dangerous terrain test when *ending* its move in terrain, and also when *starting* its move in terrain.
Realistically that would mean that each Gargoyle has about a 13% chance of dying to terrain every time it moves. And with a footprint as big as that Swarm, it's not unrealistic to think that the unit won't clear some terrain pieces in one go, and thus need multiple tests.
It would seem that you lose a lot of Gargoyles that way, just by moving. So how do you guys handle this? Do you avoid terrain, and rely on a 5+ cover save from Malanthropes? Or do you hug terrain anyway, and accept the inevitable losses?
cheers
Sam
I tend to stay in the open, every shot at a Gargoyle is a shot that did not go vs my Tyrant. The whole point (IMHO) of the Gargoyles is to take wounds for the Tyrant. I don't care if it is direct fire, or "look out M'ams!"
Polkadragon wrote: A quick question for those of you who are using the SkyTyrant Swarm formation (Hive Tyrant + Gargoyles).
How do you handle the love-hate relationship of Gargoyles and terrain? By this I mean that Gargoyles have such a crappy armour save, they really want to be in terrain to increase their survivability. But being Jump Infantry, this means that each model needs to take a dangerous terrain test when *ending* its move in terrain, and also when *starting* its move in terrain.
Realistically that would mean that each Gargoyle has about a 13% chance of dying to terrain every time it moves. And with a footprint as big as that Swarm, it's not unrealistic to think that the unit won't clear some terrain pieces in one go, and thus need multiple tests.
It would seem that you lose a lot of Gargoyles that way, just by moving. So how do you guys handle this? Do you avoid terrain, and rely on a 5+ cover save from Malanthropes? Or do you hug terrain anyway, and accept the inevitable losses?
cheers
Sam
I tend to stay in the open, every shot at a Gargoyle is a shot that did not go vs my Tyrant. The whole point (IMHO) of the Gargoyles is to take wounds for the Tyrant. I don't care if it is direct fire, or "look out M'ams!"
Could you not put the Hive Tyrant at the front, and jink when he is shot at, for a 2+ cover save with Malonthrope support?
syypher wrote: 1) How do standard Nid lists deal with AV12/13/14 reliably? Wave Serpents spam too?
Option #1: Barbed Heirodule. He solves problems that other tyranid units really can't.
***** Big Gap *****
Option #2: Crones. S8 Vector Strike + Haywire missiles.
Option #3: Flyrants. E.Grubs and Warp Lance
***** Big Gap *****
Option #4: Carnifexes or Dimachaerons in Assault.
It just got worse playing 'nids on account of Necron becoming AV:13 all the way around. Annihilation barges went up to 120 points, but they are still autotake, and Necron lists should try to spam as many of them as possible. Thankfully, they now lose tesla if snapshooting, so they won't be plucking our flier out of the air quite as easily.
syypher wrote: 2) How to deal with MCs like Nurgle Daemons, Wraithknights and to a lesser extent TripTide?[/b]
Option #1: Barbed Heirodule. Once again, solving problems that other Tyaniids don't. Riptides and Dreadknights are still a problem, but other MC's go down fairly easily.
***** Big Gap *****
Option #2: Flyrants. Weight of Fire + psychic scream and Warp Lance. Its not great, but its what we have.
Option #3: Tarpit. 20 Gargoyles work well for this. Stick them on there, and neutralize the threat for a while.
***** Big Gap *****
Option #4: Dimachaerons in Assault. They can kill MC's in assault, but most of those MC's can kill them right back, and without Grenades, they are a risky proposition.
Option #5: Dakkafexes. Weight of Fire.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldercaveman wrote: Could you not put the Hive Tyrant at the front, and jink when he is shot at, for a 2+ cover save with Malonthrope support?
With only 4 wounds that is a dangerous proposition.
Polkadragon wrote: A quick question for those of you who are using the SkyTyrant Swarm formation (Hive Tyrant + Gargoyles).
How do you handle the love-hate relationship of Gargoyles and terrain? By this I mean that Gargoyles have such a crappy armour save, they really want to be in terrain to increase their survivability. But being Jump Infantry, this means that each model needs to take a dangerous terrain test when *ending* its move in terrain, and also when *starting* its move in terrain.
Realistically that would mean that each Gargoyle has about a 13% chance of dying to terrain every time it moves. And with a footprint as big as that Swarm, it's not unrealistic to think that the unit won't clear some terrain pieces in one go, and thus need multiple tests.
It would seem that you lose a lot of Gargoyles that way, just by moving. So how do you guys handle this? Do you avoid terrain, and rely on a 5+ cover save from Malanthropes? Or do you hug terrain anyway, and accept the inevitable losses?
cheers
Sam
Sure! I just consider the point of having the Gargoyles as taking wounds, so I don't put much effort into protecting them. The best way to kill the Tyrant is volume of fire...if somebody is fool enough to shoot the Gargoyles first...well I'm pleased to let them. My problem is when I am cheerful while removing them, and grinning, they tend to "get wise" So I need to work on my poker face.
I tend to stay in the open, every shot at a Gargoyle is a shot that did not go vs my Tyrant. The whole point (IMHO) of the Gargoyles is to take wounds for the Tyrant. I don't care if it is direct fire, or "look out M'ams!"
Could you not put the Hive Tyrant at the front, and jink when he is shot at, for a 2+ cover save with Malonthrope support?
Hmmm...sorry my reply is up mixed into the quote...
It just got worse playing 'nids on account of Necron becoming AV:13 all the way around. Annihilation barges went up to 120 points, but they are still autotake, and Necron lists should try to spam as many of them as possible. Thankfully, they now lose tesla if snapshooting, so they won't be plucking our flier out of the air quite as easily.
With all the other buffs to the other units, I'm not sure they are still autotake.
It just got worse playing 'nids on account of Necron becoming AV:13 all the way around. Annihilation barges went up to 120 points, but they are still autotake, and Necron lists should try to spam as many of them as possible. Thankfully, they now lose tesla if snapshooting, so they won't be plucking our flier out of the air quite as easily.
With all the other buffs to the other units, I'm not sure they are still autotake.
Also, to be fair, the Annihilation Barges have been confirmed not to have rear armor 13. The rumormonger made a mistake and clarified it later, but Quantum Shielding is the exact same as before.
Now, onto killing heavy armor: Flyrants hitting rear/side armor are our most common option, but the Barbed Heirodule is good too. Worth mentioning, in addition to all of the above, is Zoeys in a Pod. I personally wouldn't take it, but it should be mentioned. But, ignoring and killing other things is always effective, as these kinds of units usually put out less damage for their points than other units because they are paying extra for toughness. Ignore that wraithknight, kill those Guardians!
Thank you guys! As usual the Hives support is great (I use to be a Nid player when I first got into 40k way back in 5th )
Another question... What do competitive Nid lists look like now a days? What do they have in them? I know there might be many ways to do a good list but things get streamlined after a while as to whats top tier, great, good, bad, don't take usually. I'd like to start looking around for deals on models and a good competitive list can be a good base for me to start with!
syypher wrote: Thank you guys! As usual the Hives support is great (I use to be a Nid player when I first got into 40k way back in 5th )
Another question... What do competitive Nid lists look like now a days? What do they have in them? I know there might be many ways to do a good list but things get streamlined after a while as to whats top tier, great, good, bad, don't take usually. I'd like to start looking around for deals on models and a good competitive list can be a good base for me to start with!
Thanks!
Pretty much all the units have reviews in the original post by jy2 so you can get a sense of whats good and bad.
Generally, Flyrants and Malanthrope/Venomthrope are auto-takes (you could build an army on Flyrants like Serpentspam and still do well).
syypher wrote: Thank you guys! As usual the Hives support is great (I use to be a Nid player when I first got into 40k way back in 5th )
Another question... What do competitive Nid lists look like now a days? What do they have in them? I know there might be many ways to do a good list but things get streamlined after a while as to whats top tier, great, good, bad, don't take usually. I'd like to start looking around for deals on models and a good competitive list can be a good base for me to start with!
Thanks!
Pretty much all the units have reviews in the original post by jy2 so you can get a sense of whats good and bad.
Generally, Flyrants and Malanthrope/Venomthrope are auto-takes (you could build an army on Flyrants like Serpentspam and still do well).
Serpents can super score though and their payload too. Do nids forgo their troops choices usually?
syypher wrote: Thank you guys! As usual the Hives support is great (I use to be a Nid player when I first got into 40k way back in 5th )
Another question... What do competitive Nid lists look like now a days? What do they have in them? I know there might be many ways to do a good list but things get streamlined after a while as to whats top tier, great, good, bad, don't take usually. I'd like to start looking around for deals on models and a good competitive list can be a good base for me to start with!
Thanks!
Pretty much all the units have reviews in the original post by jy2 so you can get a sense of whats good and bad.
Generally, Flyrants and Malanthrope/Venomthrope are auto-takes (you could build an army on Flyrants like Serpentspam and still do well).
Serpents can super score though and their payload too. Do nids forgo their troops choices usually?
Either they use the 15pt Mucolid minimum troops, or take several broods of Rippers oddly enough. For maelstrom Hormagaunts are also good scoring units just because of how fast they can travel and be objective secured.
syypher wrote: Thank you guys! As usual the Hives support is great (I use to be a Nid player when I first got into 40k way back in 5th )
Another question... What do competitive Nid lists look like now a days? What do they have in them? I know there might be many ways to do a good list but things get streamlined after a while as to whats top tier, great, good, bad, don't take usually. I'd like to start looking around for deals on models and a good competitive list can be a good base for me to start with!
Thanks!
Pretty much all the units have reviews in the original post by jy2 so you can get a sense of whats good and bad.
Generally, Flyrants and Malanthrope/Venomthrope are auto-takes (you could build an army on Flyrants like Serpentspam and still do well).
Serpents can super score though and their payload too. Do nids forgo their troops choices usually?
That's a play style preference. Some like DS Rippers to get Objectives, some like Mucolids as they are dirt cheap, some like swarming the board with Hormagaunts and Termagants (Devourers)...whatever you play. Even a Tervigon if you so wish.
Personally I'm all for the big bugs, so I use Rippers in CAD as they get OS, Mucolids in Hive Fleet Detachment (fills up Troops for 45 points).
gigasnail wrote: Dunno how much you guys are keeping up with the cron thread, but quantum shielding is unchanged, it's not all sides as was initially reported.
Those wraiths though...that's just dirty. They make me feel funny, and I like it.
Haha I know right?! This isn't the thread for it, but wraithwing is BACK baby! Not that I ever left it haha. Definitely not so sure that barges are as auto-take as they once were. Jinking is now a real decision that actually greatly lowers damage output.
Back to Nids, I was able to attend a local rtt this past weekend down in Somerville, NJ and man was it a blast! I filled in at the last moment for someone else due to the inclement weather and I'm really glad I did. It was labeled as a LVO prep tournament and I believe it! I played against serpent spam in the first round, daemons allied with leviathan in the second round, and against Nick Nanavati in the finals (apologies if I've butchered his name). Also got to meet Sean Nayden and see his updated #lictorshame list firsthand (beautifully-painted army by the way).
Though I'm not attending the LVO this year, I would definitely bring the list that I brought here if I was, which was: (in shorthand)
First round was against a new player running 5 serpents and a wraithknight (I know he had other stuff but I can't recall what), and we had less time to play because we arrived late and were sticking to the schedule, but he did manage to seize on me and get first blood on one of my hive tyrants through 2+ cover (what is cover, Eldar ask?). However, Flyrants really do just get exponentially better the more of them you take because they can just murder everything. Even wave serpents as long as you don't roll ones (which I didn't do a great job of tbh but it worked out well enough). Took the game 8-1 using the BAO missions, which will also be used at the LVO.
Second round against the Daemons/Nids player was odd because I just couldn't forge the narrative. Why are Flyrants shooting at Flyrants?? Both of our dice were hot early so first blood wasn't managed until bottom of 3 (seriously) but I finally got it and took that game 9-1. He didn't start summoning early enough to keep up with the maelstrom objectives I was pumping out and it was the scouring so he conceded at the bottom of 4. Fateweaver did manage to stay off the board enough to avoid giving up warlord. So sneaky!
Last round was against Nick and man his list was nuts. It was pure Daemons and I won't spoil it because I don't think he'll change much for the LVO but man. I was never left with a good decision and I messed up in a key situation late game, thinking that horrors that he had were summoned rather than his actual OS troops, plus forgetting that I could Mawloc my own guys to end a combat early enough to kill off his guys. Definitely could have been able to tie if I had played that right, but that's what happens when you go up against a GT winner. A mistake or two will cost you. Still a great game and had a blast. Didn't wind up placing due to battle points, but it was a great time nonetheless.
gigasnail wrote: Dunno how much you guys are keeping up with the cron thread, but quantum shielding is unchanged, it's not all sides as was initially reported.
Those wraiths though...that's just dirty. They make me feel funny, and I like it.
Take flyrant/dakka-spam and dakka the crap out of them. That's the only way to beat them, by VoF (volume-of-fire).
It's funny how Necrons went from wraiths to AV13 barges and now back to wraiths again.
Back to Nids, I was able to attend a local rtt this past weekend down in Somerville, NJ and man was it a blast! I filled in at the last moment for someone else due to the inclement weather and I'm really glad I did. It was labeled as a LVO prep tournament and I believe it! I played against serpent spam in the first round, daemons allied with leviathan in the second round, and against Nick Nanavati in the finals (apologies if I've butchered his name). Also got to meet Sean Nayden and see his updated #lictorshame list firsthand (beautifully-painted army by the way).
Though I'm not attending the LVO this year, I would definitely bring the list that I brought here if I was, which was: (in shorthand)
First round was against a new player running 5 serpents and a wraithknight (I know he had other stuff but I can't recall what), and we had less time to play because we arrived late and were sticking to the schedule, but he did manage to seize on me and get first blood on one of my hive tyrants through 2+ cover (what is cover, Eldar ask?). However, Flyrants really do just get exponentially better the more of them you take because they can just murder everything. Even wave serpents as long as you don't roll ones (which I didn't do a great job of tbh but it worked out well enough). Took the game 8-1 using the BAO missions, which will also be used at the LVO.
Second round against the Daemons/Nids player was odd because I just couldn't forge the narrative. Why are Flyrants shooting at Flyrants?? Both of our dice were hot early so first blood wasn't managed until bottom of 3 (seriously) but I finally got it and took that game 9-1. He didn't start summoning early enough to keep up with the maelstrom objectives I was pumping out and it was the scouring so he conceded at the bottom of 4. Fateweaver did manage to stay off the board enough to avoid giving up warlord. So sneaky!
Last round was against Nick and man his list was nuts. It was pure Daemons and I won't spoil it because I don't think he'll change much for the LVO but man. I was never left with a good decision and I messed up in a key situation late game, thinking that horrors that he had were summoned rather than his actual OS troops, plus forgetting that I could Mawloc my own guys to end a combat early enough to kill off his guys. Definitely could have been able to tie if I had played that right, but that's what happens when you go up against a GT winner. A mistake or two will cost you. Still a great game and had a blast. Didn't wind up placing due to battle points, but it was a great time nonetheless.
Congrats on a fine job indeed.
I hope I get to play Nick at the LVO. Oh, and Sean as well!
gigasnail wrote: Dunno how much you guys are keeping up with the cron thread, but quantum shielding is unchanged, it's not all sides as was initially reported.
Those wraiths though...that's just dirty. They make me feel funny, and I like it.
Haha I know right?! This isn't the thread for it, but wraithwing is BACK baby! Not that I ever left it haha. Definitely not so sure that barges are as auto-take as they once were. Jinking is now a real decision that actually greatly lowers damage output.
Back to Nids, I was able to attend a local rtt this past weekend down in Somerville, NJ and man was it a blast! I filled in at the last moment for someone else due to the inclement weather and I'm really glad I did. It was labeled as a LVO prep tournament and I believe it! I played against serpent spam in the first round, daemons allied with leviathan in the second round, and against Nick Nanavati in the finals (apologies if I've butchered his name). Also got to meet Sean Nayden and see his updated #lictorshame list firsthand (beautifully-painted army by the way).
Though I'm not attending the LVO this year, I would definitely bring the list that I brought here if I was, which was: (in shorthand)
A quick recap of the games I played:
[spoiler]
First round was against a new player running 5 serpents and a wraithknight (I know he had other stuff but I can't recall what), and we had less time to play because we arrived late and were sticking to the schedule, but he did manage to seize on me and get first blood on one of my hive tyrants through 2+ cover (what is cover, Eldar ask?). However, Flyrants really do just get exponentially better the more of them you take because they can just murder everything. Even wave serpents as long as you don't roll ones (which I didn't do a great job of tbh but it worked out well enough). Took the game 8-1 using the BAO missions, which will also be used at the LVO.
Second round against the Daemons/Nids player was odd because I just couldn't forge the narrative. Why are Flyrants shooting at Flyrants?? Both of our dice were hot early so first blood wasn't managed until bottom of 3 (seriously) but I finally got it and took that game 9-1. He didn't start summoning early enough to keep up with the maelstrom objectives I was pumping out and it was the scouring so he conceded at the bottom of 4. Fateweaver did manage to stay off the board enough to avoid giving up warlord. So sneaky!
Last round was against Nick and man his list was nuts. It was pure Daemons and I won't spoil it because I don't think he'll change much for the LVO but man. I was never left with a good decision and I messed up in a key situation late game, thinking that horrors that he had were summoned rather than his actual OS troops, plus forgetting that I could Mawloc my own guys to end a combat early enough to kill off his guys. Definitely could have been able to tie if I had played that right, but that's what happens when you go up against a GT winner. A mistake or two will cost you. Still a great game and had a blast. Didn't wind up placing due to battle points, but it was a great time nonetheless.[/spoler]
Sounds like a good showing! Do you happen to remember the general scheme of the DaemoNids player's list? I've been running Daemons + Leviathan lately, and it's been a lot of fun.
I'd also love to here what Nick is running out of curiosity, but alas, let's not spoil it.
So I played a league game at 1500 last night and brought:
3 Flyrants with eGrubs (warlord with Regen)
3 Mucolids
4 Dakkafexes
Mope
My opponent was IG with a platoon, a vet squad (all with plasma) a LCHWS, a Manticore, the quad-mortar thing, and a Stormsword (the baneblade with 10" ignores cover S10AP1) and an Aegis line with a quad gun.
I'm not sure if I just went on tilt trying to figure out how to handle a 14/13/12 superheavy with 9 HP or if it was actually hard for me to handle... but I lost (barely - I had FB, Warlord, Linebreaker but he had 2 objectives). I was winning until turn 4 where he uncovered a skyfire objective with his Stormsword. Probably didn't help that I rolled really bad for powers (Horror x2, Scream, Parox x3) and when Paroxysm landed I never rolled above a 1.
Did I just panic and lose to myself by targeting everything but the superheavy? I nearly tabled him other than that vehicle (and would've won turn 5 but the game went to 7).
Hard to say without seeing the turn by turn...and hindsight is 20/20...but I would have killed all that plasma with flyrants and plowed forward to asault the tank with the fexes...running instead of shooting even for a turn or so
gigasnail wrote: Dunno how much you guys are keeping up with the cron thread, but quantum shielding is unchanged, it's not all sides as was initially reported.
Those wraiths though...that's just dirty. They make me feel funny, and I like it.
Haha I know right?! This isn't the thread for it, but wraithwing is BACK baby! Not that I ever left it haha. Definitely not so sure that barges are as auto-take as they once were. Jinking is now a real decision that actually greatly lowers damage output.
Back to Nids, I was able to attend a local rtt this past weekend down in Somerville, NJ and man was it a blast! I filled in at the last moment for someone else due to the inclement weather and I'm really glad I did. It was labeled as a LVO prep tournament and I believe it! I played against serpent spam in the first round, daemons allied with leviathan in the second round, and against Nick Nanavati in the finals (apologies if I've butchered his name). Also got to meet Sean Nayden and see his updated #lictorshame list firsthand (beautifully-painted army by the way).
Though I'm not attending the LVO this year, I would definitely bring the list that I brought here if I was, which was: (in shorthand)
First round was against a new player running 5 serpents and a wraithknight (I know he had other stuff but I can't recall what), and we had less time to play because we arrived late and were sticking to the schedule, but he did manage to seize on me and get first blood on one of my hive tyrants through 2+ cover (what is cover, Eldar ask?). However, Flyrants really do just get exponentially better the more of them you take because they can just murder everything. Even wave serpents as long as you don't roll ones (which I didn't do a great job of tbh but it worked out well enough). Took the game 8-1 using the BAO missions, which will also be used at the LVO.
Second round against the Daemons/Nids player was odd because I just couldn't forge the narrative. Why are Flyrants shooting at Flyrants?? Both of our dice were hot early so first blood wasn't managed until bottom of 3 (seriously) but I finally got it and took that game 9-1. He didn't start summoning early enough to keep up with the maelstrom objectives I was pumping out and it was the scouring so he conceded at the bottom of 4. Fateweaver did manage to stay off the board enough to avoid giving up warlord. So sneaky!
Last round was against Nick and man his list was nuts. It was pure Daemons and I won't spoil it because I don't think he'll change much for the LVO but man. I was never left with a good decision and I messed up in a key situation late game, thinking that horrors that he had were summoned rather than his actual OS troops, plus forgetting that I could Mawloc my own guys to end a combat early enough to kill off his guys. Definitely could have been able to tie if I had played that right, but that's what happens when you go up against a GT winner. A mistake or two will cost you. Still a great game and had a blast. Didn't wind up placing due to battle points, but it was a great time nonetheless.
Sounds like a good showing! Do you happen to remember the general scheme of the DaemoNids player's list? I've been running Daemons + Leviathan lately, and it's been a lot of fun.
I'd also love to here what Nick is running out of curiosity, but alas, let's not spoil it.
The Daemonid player was running just the barebones leviathan with 3 Flyrants and 3 mucolids (he did have EGrubs on them). He ran screamerstar with 3 heralds, 2 min squads of nurglings, fate weaver and a bastion. Off the top of my head that is right around 1850; might have had an odd upgrade here or there.
Nick's Daemon list honestly might be the best list in the game right now. I will gladly start talking about what we as Nids can do to combat it once LVO is finished, but I mean I did the math haha. There aren't a lot of good options other than hope that saves start failing/Grimoire fails (which with the Fatey re-roll in a pinch is quite unlikely)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rigeld2 wrote: So I played a league game at 1500 last night and brought:
3 Flyrants with eGrubs (warlord with Regen)
3 Mucolids
4 Dakkafexes
Mope
My opponent was IG with a platoon, a vet squad (all with plasma) a LCHWS, a Manticore, the quad-mortar thing, and a Stormsword (the baneblade with 10" ignores cover S10AP1) and an Aegis line with a quad gun.
I'm not sure if I just went on tilt trying to figure out how to handle a 14/13/12 superheavy with 9 HP or if it was actually hard for me to handle... but I lost (barely - I had FB, Warlord, Linebreaker but he had 2 objectives). I was winning until turn 4 where he uncovered a skyfire objective with his Stormsword. Probably didn't help that I rolled really bad for powers (Horror x2, Scream, Parox x3) and when Paroxysm landed I never rolled above a 1.
Did I just panic and lose to myself by targeting everything but the superheavy? I nearly tabled him other than that vehicle (and would've won turn 5 but the game went to 7).
Doesn't seem likely. That Skyfire objective is just unfortunate. Usually with a super heavy like that I would just table the rest of the army as well. Maybe if I could box it in with Carnifexes....
Leviathan Formation: 3HQ 3 Troops everything else normal CAD, may reroll IB Skytyrant: Flyrant with 2x gargoyle units, acts as a unit and you may LoS! on a 2+ but the Flyrant may never swoop.
Leviathan Formation: 3HQ 3 Troops everything else normal CAD, may reroll IB Skytyrant: Flyrant with 2x gargoyle units, acts as a unit and you may LoS! on a 2+ but the Flyrant may never swoop.
AWE SNAP I THINK I JUST FOUND WHAT IMA BE PLAYING!!!! NIDS!!!! (Been tossing around ideas of Tau or Eldar too)
Thanks Lechine. That sounds awesome Where would I find the Skytyrant formation? I need to have all the books present to use the formations/ etc. at my locals.
Another topic.. we have a lot of Tau and Eldar players. Any advice on what units are good vs them? I'd like to make a TAC list and theres a bunch of those in our locals so I'd like to be prepared.
ductvader wrote: Hard to say without seeing the turn by turn...and hindsight is 20/20...but I would have killed all that plasma with flyrants and plowed forward to asault the tank with the fexes...running instead of shooting even for a turn or so
I think what may have done me in was the fact that I deployed first, and only deployed my Flyrants. My plan was to make his huge cannon useless for as long as possible, but that didn't take into account the lack of much LoS blocking terrain.
I'm thinking I did okay with what I had, but I may have overreacted to the firepower that thing could put out... plus the Skyfire objective was a game changer.
Leviathan Formation: 3HQ 3 Troops everything else normal CAD, may reroll IB Skytyrant: Flyrant with 2x gargoyle units, acts as a unit and you may LoS! on a 2+ but the Flyrant may never swoop.
AWE SNAP I THINK I JUST FOUND WHAT IMA BE PLAYING!!!! NIDS!!!! (Been tossing around ideas of Tau or Eldar too)
Thanks Lechine. That sounds awesome Where would I find the Skytyrant formation? I need to have all the books present to use the formations/ etc. at my locals.
Another topic.. we have a lot of Tau and Eldar players. Any advice on what units are good vs them? I'd like to make a TAC list and theres a bunch of those in our locals so I'd like to be prepared.
Skytyrant is in the Leviathan book, as well as the rules for Mucoloids, Tyrannocytes, Toxicrenes, Maleceptors, Sporecyst and a bunch of other formations.
A standard start to a Leviathan TAC list is
3 x Flying Hive Tyrants with 2 x TL Devourers and Electrogrubs (haywire templates)
Malonthrope (Venomthrope if you aren't allowed FW)
Then either 3 x Swarms of Deep striking rippers
or 3 x Mucoloids, depending on your preference, points range, missions being used etc.
After that there are Crones if you want more FMC's and face a lot of Mech/Knights etc
Mawlocs if you face lots of infantry and they are useful in Maelstrom.
Dakkafexes (especially in pods) are a solid TAC unit.
Leviathan Formation: 3HQ 3 Troops everything else normal CAD, may reroll IB Skytyrant: Flyrant with 2x gargoyle units, acts as a unit and you may LoS! on a 2+ but the Flyrant may never swoop.
AWE SNAP I THINK I JUST FOUND WHAT IMA BE PLAYING!!!! NIDS!!!! (Been tossing around ideas of Tau or Eldar too)
Thanks Lechine. That sounds awesome Where would I find the Skytyrant formation? I need to have all the books present to use the formations/ etc. at my locals.
Another topic.. we have a lot of Tau and Eldar players. Any advice on what units are good vs them? I'd like to make a TAC list and theres a bunch of those in our locals so I'd like to be prepared.
Skytyrant is in the Leviathan book, as well as the rules for Mucoloids, Tyrannocytes, Toxicrenes, Maleceptors, Sporecyst and a bunch of other formations.
A standard start to a Leviathan TAC list is
3 x Flying Hive Tyrants with 2 x TL Devourers and Electrogrubs (haywire templates)
Malonthrope (Venomthrope if you aren't allowed FW)
Then either 3 x Swarms of Deep striking rippers
or 3 x Mucoloids, depending on your preference, points range, missions being used etc.
After that there are Crones if you want more FMC's and face a lot of Mech/Knights etc
Mawlocs if you face lots of infantry and they are useful in Maelstrom.
Dakkafexes (especially in pods) are a solid TAC unit.
Leviathan Formation: 3HQ 3 Troops everything else normal CAD, may reroll IB Skytyrant: Flyrant with 2x gargoyle units, acts as a unit and you may LoS! on a 2+ but the Flyrant may never swoop.
AWE SNAP I THINK I JUST FOUND WHAT IMA BE PLAYING!!!! NIDS!!!! (Been tossing around ideas of Tau or Eldar too)
Thanks Lechine. That sounds awesome Where would I find the Skytyrant formation? I need to have all the books present to use the formations/ etc. at my locals.
Another topic.. we have a lot of Tau and Eldar players. Any advice on what units are good vs them? I'd like to make a TAC list and theres a bunch of those in our locals so I'd like to be prepared.
Skytyrant is in the Leviathan book, as well as the rules for Mucoloids, Tyrannocytes, Toxicrenes, Maleceptors, Sporecyst and a bunch of other formations.
A standard start to a Leviathan TAC list is
3 x Flying Hive Tyrants with 2 x TL Devourers and Electrogrubs (haywire templates)
Malonthrope (Venomthrope if you aren't allowed FW)
Then either 3 x Swarms of Deep striking rippers
or 3 x Mucoloids, depending on your preference, points range, missions being used etc.
After that there are Crones if you want more FMC's and face a lot of Mech/Knights etc
Mawlocs if you face lots of infantry and they are useful in Maelstrom.
Dakkafexes (especially in pods) are a solid TAC unit.
ductvader wrote: Hard to say without seeing the turn by turn...and hindsight is 20/20...but I would have killed all that plasma with flyrants and plowed forward to asault the tank with the fexes...running instead of shooting even for a turn or so
I think what may have done me in was the fact that I deployed first, and only deployed my Flyrants. My plan was to make his huge cannon useless for as long as possible, but that didn't take into account the lack of much LoS blocking terrain.
I'm thinking I did okay with what I had, but I may have overreacted to the firepower that thing could put out... plus the Skyfire objective was a game changer.
Sounds like the dice just turned against you. Without Skyfire or if the game ended earlier you would have had it won, right?
syypher wrote: That's great! Thanks I love the way Mawlocs look too so that's awesome.
Btw, Hulksmash made a compilation of where to find dataslates/formations HERE which is useful for just about anybody.
ductvader wrote: Hard to say without seeing the turn by turn...and hindsight is 20/20...but I would have killed all that plasma with flyrants and plowed forward to asault the tank with the fexes...running instead of shooting even for a turn or so
I think what may have done me in was the fact that I deployed first, and only deployed my Flyrants. My plan was to make his huge cannon useless for as long as possible, but that didn't take into account the lack of much LoS blocking terrain.
I'm thinking I did okay with what I had, but I may have overreacted to the firepower that thing could put out... plus the Skyfire objective was a game changer.
Sounds like the dice just turned against you. Without Skyfire or if the game ended earlier you would have had it won, right?
Agreed to the slight over reaction. It's a dangerous weapon, but not really all too dangerous to what you brought.
gigasnail wrote: Dunno how much you guys are keeping up with the cron thread, but quantum shielding is unchanged, it's not all sides as was initially reported.
Those wraiths though...that's just dirty. They make me feel funny, and I like it.
Haha I know right?! This isn't the thread for it, but wraithwing is BACK baby! Not that I ever left it haha. Definitely not so sure that barges are as auto-take as they once were. Jinking is now a real decision that actually greatly lowers damage output.
Back to Nids, I was able to attend a local rtt this past weekend down in Somerville, NJ and man was it a blast! I filled in at the last moment for someone else due to the inclement weather and I'm really glad I did. It was labeled as a LVO prep tournament and I believe it! I played against serpent spam in the first round, daemons allied with leviathan in the second round, and against Nick Nanavati in the finals (apologies if I've butchered his name). Also got to meet Sean Nayden and see his updated #lictorshame list firsthand (beautifully-painted army by the way).
Though I'm not attending the LVO this year, I would definitely bring the list that I brought here if I was, which was: (in shorthand)
First round was against a new player running 5 serpents and a wraithknight (I know he had other stuff but I can't recall what), and we had less time to play because we arrived late and were sticking to the schedule, but he did manage to seize on me and get first blood on one of my hive tyrants through 2+ cover (what is cover, Eldar ask?). However, Flyrants really do just get exponentially better the more of them you take because they can just murder everything. Even wave serpents as long as you don't roll ones (which I didn't do a great job of tbh but it worked out well enough). Took the game 8-1 using the BAO missions, which will also be used at the LVO.
Second round against the Daemons/Nids player was odd because I just couldn't forge the narrative. Why are Flyrants shooting at Flyrants?? Both of our dice were hot early so first blood wasn't managed until bottom of 3 (seriously) but I finally got it and took that game 9-1. He didn't start summoning early enough to keep up with the maelstrom objectives I was pumping out and it was the scouring so he conceded at the bottom of 4. Fateweaver did manage to stay off the board enough to avoid giving up warlord. So sneaky!
Last round was against Nick and man his list was nuts. It was pure Daemons and I won't spoil it because I don't think he'll change much for the LVO but man. I was never left with a good decision and I messed up in a key situation late game, thinking that horrors that he had were summoned rather than his actual OS troops, plus forgetting that I could Mawloc my own guys to end a combat early enough to kill off his guys. Definitely could have been able to tie if I had played that right, but that's what happens when you go up against a GT winner. A mistake or two will cost you. Still a great game and had a blast. Didn't wind up placing due to battle points, but it was a great time nonetheless.
Sounds like a good showing! Do you happen to remember the general scheme of the DaemoNids player's list? I've been running Daemons + Leviathan lately, and it's been a lot of fun.
I'd also love to here what Nick is running out of curiosity, but alas, let's not spoil it.
The Daemonid player was running just the barebones leviathan with 3 Flyrants and 3 mucolids (he did have EGrubs on them). He ran screamerstar with 3 heralds, 2 min squads of nurglings, fate weaver and a bastion. Off the top of my head that is right around 1850; might have had an odd upgrade here or there.
Nick's Daemon list honestly might be the best list in the game right now. I will gladly start talking about what we as Nids can do to combat it once LVO is finished, but I mean I did the math haha. There aren't a lot of good options other than hope that saves start failing/Grimoire fails (which with the Fatey re-roll in a pinch is quite unlikely)
Ha yeah, that's pretty much the exact same 3 Flyrant + Daemons list I cooked up when thinking about it. I'm not a huge fan of it though, So I've been sticking with 2 Flyrants a slightly smaller ScreamerStar and a big unit of Hounds + Herald. Althoughhh, I just got my 3rd Flyrant so I'm sure I'll have to get it on the table before too long.
Looking for some advice guys on Nids VS AV13 and above, Land Raiders, Bunkers, frontal armor on heavies, Preds etc.
Leaving aside getting into combat and trying rear armor hits (which fail VS bunkers/LRs) what do you recommend without picking something fairly whacky or throwing a spanner in an army build?
Ratius wrote: Looking for some advice guys on Nids VS AV13 and above, Land Raiders, Bunkers, frontal armor on heavies, Preds etc.
Leaving aside getting into combat and trying rear armor hits (which fail VS bunkers/LRs) what do you recommend without picking something fairly whacky or throwing a spanner in an army build?
Flyrants and Haywire grubs. Crones, strength 8 Vectors and haywire missiles. Carnifexes in pods, even dakkfexes still get through heavy armour whilst remaining TAC choices.
Ratius wrote: But dakkafexes are str 6 no? So VS LRs they dont work? And VS frontal AV13 too?
Their guns are Str 6 but they themselves are base Str9 so pod them in and they can assualt heavy armour and bunkers etc without having to do a single smash attack, and they have a TAC purpose after they have crushed the tin can open.
Fly over it and pour S6 shots into it. If they're going for the full 3x 6 Uber 4+ RP Wraithwing its 1650 pts and that's even before a single NightScythe, so your FMC will be relatively safe. That's probably no a list most people will bring though as it's so hideously unbalanced. Pouring S6 shots into Wraiths with RP probably isn't a worthwhile endeavor. If people start bringing the Wraithwing of old it really won't be much different than before. Yes the wraiths are better, but all the support elements of the old Wraithwing (Anti-Airhillation Barges and NightScythes) got hit pretty decently by the nerf bat AND went up 30-40 points.
Mawloc goes where Mawloc pleases. Doesn't need to target a unit when it deep strikes in, so it can counter invisibility or even come up into a combat on purpose (or accidentally if it misses haha) in this case my Flyrants really wanted to shoot at a unit in combat so it would have actually been ideal for me to murder my own rippers in the movement phase to free up the unit to be lit up in the shooting phase
syypher wrote: Thank you guys! As usual the Hives support is great (I use to be a Nid player when I first got into 40k way back in 5th )
Another question... What do competitive Nid lists look like now a days? What do they have in them? I know there might be many ways to do a good list but things get streamlined after a while as to whats top tier, great, good, bad, don't take usually. I'd like to start looking around for deals on models and a good competitive list can be a good base for me to start with!
Thanks!
Pretty much all the units have reviews in the original post by jy2 so you can get a sense of whats good and bad.
Generally, Flyrants and Malanthrope/Venomthrope are auto-takes (you could build an army on Flyrants like Serpentspam and still do well).
Serpents can super score though and their payload too. Do nids forgo their troops choices usually?
I don't, but many do. It is a "style" issue in the end. People who don't have any use for OS can build lists that ignore it, and still do well. The Hive Queen is pleased, and Hungry.
Leviathan Formation: 3HQ 3 Troops everything else normal CAD, may reroll IB Skytyrant: Flyrant with 2x gargoyle units, acts as a unit and you may LoS! on a 2+ but the Flyrant may never swoop.
This is so cool. I'm going to be placing an order soon for my models, could use a bit of help to flesh out my order to 1850 as that's what most people play at in my LFGS. (Most are pretty competitive, pretty large community too) There's a ton of Tau, Eldar and Daemons and a smattering of other competitive builds like White Scars, triple Imperial Knights and some pretty nasty Orc formations etc.
List thus far:
4 Flyrants (1 in the SkyTyrant formation)
3 Mucolid troops
2 Malanthrope
1 Hive Crone (We have a couple IK and triple IK players)
1 Mawloc (To help disrupt IG and Tau)
20 Gargoyles (2 broods)
That leaves me with about 260 pts of stuff to put in... What do you guys think I should put in to fill out the rest of my army order? Maybe a bunch of solo Lictors? Can the artillery formation fit with that points? Is it worth it? Dimachron + Pod? Not sure how to round it all out >_<
Leviathan Formation: 3HQ 3 Troops everything else normal CAD, may reroll IB Skytyrant: Flyrant with 2x gargoyle units, acts as a unit and you may LoS! on a 2+ but the Flyrant may never swoop.
This is so cool. I'm going to be placing an order soon for my models, could use a bit of help to flesh out my order to 1850 as that's what most people play at in my LFGS. (Most are pretty competitive, pretty large community too) There's a ton of Tau, Eldar and Daemons and a smattering of other competitive builds like White Scars, triple Imperial Knights and some pretty nasty Orc formations etc.
List thus far:
4 Flyrants (1 in the SkyTyrant formation)
3 Mucolid troops
2 Malanthrope
1 Hive Crone (We have a couple IK and triple IK players)
1 Mawloc (To help disrupt IG and Tau)
20 Gargoyles (2 broods)
That leaves me with about 260 pts of stuff to put in... What do you guys think I should put in to fill out the rest of my army order? Maybe a bunch of solo Lictors? Can the artillery formation fit with that points? Is it worth it? Dimachron + Pod? Not sure how to round it all out >_<
Looks like a great start to a pretty competitive list. The one that I have is pretty similar. I wouldn't grab 2 Malanthropes though. Not only are they stupidly durable for the points, but their main job is to protect the Flyrants turn 1 (always go second btw you are the definition of an anti-alpha strike list and your alpha strike is devastating)
I would exchange the second Malanthrope for a bastion with Comms (what I run) and pop the Malanthrope inside the bastion. Not only is it great BLOS terrain, but it covers your hive tyrant in the battlements on top with no 25% obscurement requirement, itself gives 4+ cover to any models obscured by the building, AND the Malanthrope's 6" bubble extends from any part of the building. You'll be rocking 2+ cover all the way home. You can even give that cover to your Flyrants while they swoop if you are still in range, which for the ones hiding behind it (warlord) is easy for a turn (and even 2 turns if your opponent is aggressive and you can bank sideways while still shooting his pants off)
The Mawloc isn't bad, but you will miss 2/3 times without lictors (plural, because one can and will die if your opponent cares) guiding it in. The Comms is also crucial, giving you re-rolls for failed or successful reserves so that you can have the lictors come down a turn earlier.
As for the crone, I would recommend thinking about going all out with Skyblight if you go that route. You already have 2/3 of the gargoyles. It's not as good as it once was though and the crones are only TL vs flyers. Hive tyrants can take hull points off of Knights much more reliably. Just make sure they have the haywire upgrade for the thorax.
You could also try out the Skytyrant formation. Although you can't do that with leviathan + Tyranid CAD + Skytyrant as that is 3 sources and typically disallowed at the tournament scene, but might be worth trying to work in. Maybe not top tier, but it's pretty close.
I'm still tweaking the Dimachaeron + pod. Haven't really found a way to make it super competitive, but for normal games dropping it or a Carnifex in is super fun. Living artillery really isn't necessary (also is a third source) with 3-4 Flyrants anyhow. Whatever you need to kill, you can just drown in VOF from the tyrants.
The list is Leviathan + Skytyrant formation though already. Did I miss something? or build it wrong?
I'll definitely swap out for the Bastion + Comms! That sounds like a no brainer with all the benefits you explained!
Also, all the LFGS in my meta is following suite with LVO and starting to do 3 or 4 sources allowed per tournament. I think 3 sources is going to be the new thing this coming year, but that's just a guess. LVOs doing it I believe so maybe others will follow too.
syypher wrote: Hmm.. great insight luke! Much appreciated!
The list is Leviathan + Skytyrant formation though already. Did I miss something? or build it wrong?
I'll definitely swap out for the Bastion + Comms! That sounds like a no brainer with all the benefits you explained!
Also, all the LFGS in my meta is following suite with LVO and starting to do 3 or 4 sources allowed per tournament. I think 3 sources is going to be the new thing this coming year, but that's just a guess. LVOs doing it I believe so maybe others will follow too.
Pretty sure that LVO is doing standard 2 source still but if your meta allows more (as does mine) then go for it! The only reason I limit myself is because most major tournaments still do so I want to have more practice with that format.
And I was mistaken (glossed over your post sorry). I thought you were bringing Leviathan + Tyranid CAD + Skytyrant. In that case, you could have 6 flying hive tyrants if you wanted to! Which is why most tournaments don't allow it. Spam becomes even more prevalent. I might also try 2 squads of 20 Gargs for your Skytyrant. Too many armies can chew through 20 wounds in a turn or two, and tanking more than a wound or two is really dangerous with your tyrant unless you give him regen
syypher wrote: Hmm.. great insight luke! Much appreciated!
The list is Leviathan + Skytyrant formation though already. Did I miss something? or build it wrong?
I'll definitely swap out for the Bastion + Comms! That sounds like a no brainer with all the benefits you explained!
Also, all the LFGS in my meta is following suite with LVO and starting to do 3 or 4 sources allowed per tournament. I think 3 sources is going to be the new thing this coming year, but that's just a guess. LVOs doing it I believe so maybe others will follow too.
Pretty sure that LVO is doing standard 2 source still but if your meta allows more (as does mine) then go for it! The only reason I limit myself is because most major tournaments still do so I want to have more practice with that format.
And I was mistaken (glossed over your post sorry). I thought you were bringing Leviathan + Tyranid CAD + Skytyrant. In that case, you could have 6 flying hive tyrants if you wanted to! Which is why most tournaments don't allow it. Spam becomes even more prevalent. I might also try 2 squads of 20 Gargs for your Skytyrant. Too many armies can chew through 20 wounds in a turn or two, and tanking more than a wound or two is really dangerous with your tyrant unless you give him regen
Just note that the Leviathan detachment doesn't have a Fortification slot- you'd have to take a normal CAD someway to get a bastion.
Valid point. So you can't do bastion plus Skytyrant plus Leviathan under the normal 2 source restriction, and even while going to 3 sources you would need a minimum of 5 troops. But I mean, mucolids. Seriously. Also rippers are so great at dropping in, owning/contesting an objective, and then not caring what happens after that
Leviathan Formation: 3HQ 3 Troops everything else normal CAD, may reroll IB Skytyrant: Flyrant with 2x gargoyle units, acts as a unit and you may LoS! on a 2+ but the Flyrant may never swoop.
This is so cool. I'm going to be placing an order soon for my models, could use a bit of help to flesh out my order to 1850 as that's what most people play at in my LFGS. (Most are pretty competitive, pretty large community too) There's a ton of Tau, Eldar and Daemons and a smattering of other competitive builds like White Scars, triple Imperial Knights and some pretty nasty Orc formations etc.
List thus far:
4 Flyrants (1 in the SkyTyrant formation)
3 Mucolid troops
2 Malanthrope
1 Hive Crone (We have a couple IK and triple IK players)
1 Mawloc (To help disrupt IG and Tau)
20 Gargoyles (2 broods)
That leaves me with about 260 pts of stuff to put in... What do you guys think I should put in to fill out the rest of my army order? Maybe a bunch of solo Lictors? Can the artillery formation fit with that points? Is it worth it? Dimachron + Pod? Not sure how to round it all out >_<
Plenty of things to spend 260 on. Maybe take a look at a Tyrannocyte of two, and/or a Big Bug to put inside them? Or a Tervigon?
Leviathan Formation: 3HQ 3 Troops everything else normal CAD, may reroll IB Skytyrant: Flyrant with 2x gargoyle units, acts as a unit and you may LoS! on a 2+ but the Flyrant may never swoop.
This is so cool. I'm going to be placing an order soon for my models, could use a bit of help to flesh out my order to 1850 as that's what most people play at in my LFGS. (Most are pretty competitive, pretty large community too) There's a ton of Tau, Eldar and Daemons and a smattering of other competitive builds like White Scars, triple Imperial Knights and some pretty nasty Orc formations etc.
List thus far:
4 Flyrants (1 in the SkyTyrant formation)
3 Mucolid troops
2 Malanthrope
1 Hive Crone (We have a couple IK and triple IK players)
1 Mawloc (To help disrupt IG and Tau)
20 Gargoyles (2 broods)
That leaves me with about 260 pts of stuff to put in... What do you guys think I should put in to fill out the rest of my army order? Maybe a bunch of solo Lictors? Can the artillery formation fit with that points? Is it worth it? Dimachron + Pod? Not sure how to round it all out >_<
Plenty of things to spend 260 on. Maybe take a look at a Tyrannocyte of two, and/or a Big Bug to put inside them? Or a Tervigon?
So I actually have about 635 points left over... There are a lot of Tau, Eldar, DE and Daemons in my area... Hmm...
Maybe just another Flyrant + other stuff? Not really sure. Anyone got any advice on stuff specifically good against those armies? I'm going to read through the tacticas on the front page in a bit. Finally got some free time
Leviathan Formation: 3HQ 3 Troops everything else normal CAD, may reroll IB Skytyrant: Flyrant with 2x gargoyle units, acts as a unit and you may LoS! on a 2+ but the Flyrant may never swoop.
This is so cool. I'm going to be placing an order soon for my models, could use a bit of help to flesh out my order to 1850 as that's what most people play at in my LFGS. (Most are pretty competitive, pretty large community too) There's a ton of Tau, Eldar and Daemons and a smattering of other competitive builds like White Scars, triple Imperial Knights and some pretty nasty Orc formations etc.
List thus far:
4 Flyrants (1 in the SkyTyrant formation)
3 Mucolid troops
2 Malanthrope
1 Hive Crone (We have a couple IK and triple IK players)
1 Mawloc (To help disrupt IG and Tau)
20 Gargoyles (2 broods)
That leaves me with about 260 pts of stuff to put in... What do you guys think I should put in to fill out the rest of my army order? Maybe a bunch of solo Lictors? Can the artillery formation fit with that points? Is it worth it? Dimachron + Pod? Not sure how to round it all out >_<
Plenty of things to spend 260 on. Maybe take a look at a Tyrannocyte of two, and/or a Big Bug to put inside them? Or a Tervigon?
So I actually have about 635 points left over... There are a lot of Tau, Eldar, DE and Daemons in my area... Hmm...
Maybe just another Flyrant + other stuff? Not really sure. Anyone got any advice on stuff specifically good against those armies? I'm going to read through the tacticas on the front page in a bit. Finally got some free time
Consider upgrading some Mucolids to Rippers for the CAD, so you can get some OS in there. Also, since you have a whole CAD you're basically not using, Lictors go very well with Mawlocs, and Mawlocs are your best friend against Tau (and are quite serviceable against the other armies on your list).
Reading on some of the tacticas per unit I think Lictors + Mawloc would be cool. Put some threat around the board.
But the thing about all my Flyrants is that they were so durable and hard to hit. Makes my enemies have a hard target priority. With Lictors everywhere for my Mawloc it seems like it kind of weakens the toughness of the list...
Maybe... a 5th Flyrant? Or can there be TOO many Flyrants? So a 5th Flyrant and maybe a Dakkafex brood in a Tyrannocyte? Or do I need a large brood of Gargoyles like I see a lot of to tarpit stuff?
Don't really know how to optimize Nid lists still >_< Even after all the reading. mmm
Reading on some of the tacticas per unit I think Lictors + Mawloc would be cool. Put some threat around the board.
But the thing about all my Flyrants is that they were so durable and hard to hit. Makes my enemies have a hard target priority. With Lictors everywhere for my Mawloc it seems like it kind of weakens the toughness of the list...
Maybe... a 5th Flyrant? Or can there be TOO many Flyrants? So a 5th Flyrant and maybe a Dakkafex brood in a Tyrannocyte? Or do I need a large brood of Gargoyles like I see a lot of to tarpit stuff?
Don't really know how to optimize Nid lists still >_< Even after all the reading. mmm
If you can play 5 Flyrants in your area, then yeah not a lot else matters.
Haha lucky for me, most everyone runs really competitive lists that most people consider "cheese." It's just known as competitive now here and no one calls it that anymore.
It's funny, I use to always run competitive lists, and I would hear cheese all the time. Now that everyone runs competitive lists and top tier lists, I never hear it anymore (except online ;P)
syypher wrote: Hmm.. great insight luke! Much appreciated!
The list is Leviathan + Skytyrant formation though already. Did I miss something? or build it wrong?
I'll definitely swap out for the Bastion + Comms! That sounds like a no brainer with all the benefits you explained!
Also, all the LFGS in my meta is following suite with LVO and starting to do 3 or 4 sources allowed per tournament. I think 3 sources is going to be the new thing this coming year, but that's just a guess. LVOs doing it I believe so maybe others will follow too.
Pretty sure that LVO is doing standard 2 source still but if your meta allows more (as does mine) then go for it! The only reason I limit myself is because most major tournaments still do so I want to have more practice with that format.
And I was mistaken (glossed over your post sorry). I thought you were bringing Leviathan + Tyranid CAD + Skytyrant. In that case, you could have 6 flying hive tyrants if you wanted to! Which is why most tournaments don't allow it. Spam becomes even more prevalent. I might also try 2 squads of 20 Gargs for your Skytyrant. Too many armies can chew through 20 wounds in a turn or two, and tanking more than a wound or two is really dangerous with your tyrant unless you give him regen
Just note that the Leviathan detachment doesn't have a Fortification slot- you'd have to take a normal CAD someway to get a bastion.
iirc, someone a few pages back was pointing out that there were discrepancies between the digital and irl versions of leviathan: one of them did have a fortification slot and the warlord was not forced to roll on the leviathan table, whilst the other had the opposite. Would need someone to verify that though as I dont own either.
syypher wrote: Hmm.. great insight luke! Much appreciated!
The list is Leviathan + Skytyrant formation though already. Did I miss something? or build it wrong?
I'll definitely swap out for the Bastion + Comms! That sounds like a no brainer with all the benefits you explained!
Also, all the LFGS in my meta is following suite with LVO and starting to do 3 or 4 sources allowed per tournament. I think 3 sources is going to be the new thing this coming year, but that's just a guess. LVOs doing it I believe so maybe others will follow too.
Pretty sure that LVO is doing standard 2 source still but if your meta allows more (as does mine) then go for it! The only reason I limit myself is because most major tournaments still do so I want to have more practice with that format.
And I was mistaken (glossed over your post sorry). I thought you were bringing Leviathan + Tyranid CAD + Skytyrant. In that case, you could have 6 flying hive tyrants if you wanted to! Which is why most tournaments don't allow it. Spam becomes even more prevalent. I might also try 2 squads of 20 Gargs for your Skytyrant. Too many armies can chew through 20 wounds in a turn or two, and tanking more than a wound or two is really dangerous with your tyrant unless you give him regen
Just note that the Leviathan detachment doesn't have a Fortification slot- you'd have to take a normal CAD someway to get a bastion.
iirc, someone a few pages back was pointing out that there were discrepancies between the digital and irl versions of leviathan: one of them did have a fortification slot and the warlord was not forced to roll on the leviathan table, whilst the other had the opposite. Would need someone to verify that though as I dont own either.
Digital and Hardback are consistent- no Fortification. Don't know about the softcover, but since it hasn't been brought back up I'm assuming the issue has been resolved.
I believe the wording for the Warlord is the same as well, but I don't remember what the agreement on that was.
How would you guys recommend taking on walkers? I had a for fun game against my friends all dreadnought list and I just about got tabled almost entirely in the assault phases due to lack of any kind of save against those high ap weapons. Is there any reliable anti walker unit that you keep around? Or would it just be better to shoot the bajeezus out of them?
Gamerely wrote: How would you guys recommend taking on walkers? I had a for fun game against my friends all dreadnought list and I just about got tabled almost entirely in the assault phases due to lack of any kind of save against those high ap weapons. Is there any reliable anti walker unit that you keep around? Or would it just be better to shoot the bajeezus out of them?
EGrubs are D3 Haywire on Ocerwatch (Wall of Flame)
Devourers w/ BLW work well if you can get behind rear armour (Flyrants do this well)
You can also tarpit them with a unit of Hormagaunts or so. Just because you can't hurt it doesn't mean you can't charge.
Gamerely wrote: How would you guys recommend taking on walkers? I had a for fun game against my friends all dreadnought list and I just about got tabled almost entirely in the assault phases due to lack of any kind of save against those high ap weapons. Is there any reliable anti walker unit that you keep around? Or would it just be better to shoot the bajeezus out of them?
EGrubs are D3 Haywire on Ocerwatch (Wall of Flame)
Devourers w/ BLW work well if you can get behind rear armour (Flyrants do this well)
You can also tarpit them with a unit of Hormagaunts or so. Just because you can't hurt it doesn't mean you can't charge.
I did tarpit one of his ven dreads with 20 gaunts, that kept him out of my hair for the entire game. But pretty much everything else I brought got deathified. Flyrant was the only real threat, but he shot him out of the sky. Hauruspex died before even getting a hit off against murderfang, Trygon whiffed 3 assault phases, Carnifex died before his initiative phase. Very educational battle.
Gamerely wrote: How would you guys recommend taking on walkers? I had a for fun game against my friends all dreadnought list and I just about got tabled almost entirely in the assault phases due to lack of any kind of save against those high ap weapons. Is there any reliable anti walker unit that you keep around? Or would it just be better to shoot the bajeezus out of them?
EGrubs are D3 Haywire on Ocerwatch (Wall of Flame)
Devourers w/ BLW work well if you can get behind rear armour (Flyrants do this well)
You can also tarpit them with a unit of Hormagaunts or so. Just because you can't hurt it doesn't mean you can't charge.
I did tarpit one of his ven dreads with 20 gaunts, that kept him out of my hair for the entire game. But pretty much everything else I brought got deathified. Flyrant was the only real threat, but he shot him out of the sky. Hauruspex died before even getting a hit off against murderfang, Trygon whiffed 3 assault phases, Carnifex died before his initiative phase. Very educational battle.
Sadly so.
The Haruspex is reasonable at opening up regular vehicles and could in theory tie up a large infantry squad for an entire game thanks to wound recovery, but against anything intended for melee it is out-classed.
The Trygon is really de-powered for its cost in today's world. It needs some combination of its re-rolls back, a speed boost, the ability to handle walkers/heavy vehicles or a boost to its survivability (I've always thought it would be cool to choose between using the electric field as either a shooting attack or a 4+ Invulnerable save).
The Carnifex is meh if it gets charged.You need to bubble wrap them or have a counter-assault unit with them (they work great in pairs for this reason). On the charge you have your D3 HoW attacks which can really put the hurt on an opponent.
If you're looking for melee MCs then really the only decent options are a Reaper Tyrant in a Skytyrant formation, the Toxicrene, the Dimachaeron and to an extent a group of Carnifexes with Crushing Claws.
I know the ablative wounds while shooting is awesome, but it's a bit confusing to me. Do you still hit the Flyrant with 6s if you don't have skyfire? What does it take to hit the gargoyles? (regular BS?)
Also tactically, is it mostly to give your Flyrant more wounds? Or do you actually make your Flyrant combat style and use the gargs as meat shields in an assault that way?
Not really sure the best way to utilize this formation, though I see it being played and discussed a lot.
syypher wrote: What's the main draw for Skytyrant formation?
I know the ablative wounds while shooting is awesome, but it's a bit confusing to me. Do you still hit the Flyrant with 6s if you don't have skyfire? What does it take to hit the gargoyles? (regular BS?)
Also tactically, is it mostly to give your Flyrant more wounds? Or do you actually make your Flyrant combat style and use the gargs as meat shields in an assault that way?
Not really sure the best way to utilize this formation, though I see it being played and discussed a lot.
The basic idea is that the tyrant cannot be targeted individually because he is part of the unit. You could also use him to take 2+ cover saves and help increase the durability of the gargoyles but I don't like that as much. A couple snake eyes and you've lost many more points than you had bargained for. Also, the hive tyrant can never fly (arguably even after the gargoyles all die, which I believe is RAW but not likely RAI) so the whole squad will always be targeted at normal BS (and wounded at the majority toughness of the gargoyles)
The same concept occurs in combat. Unless you can (and want to) challenge the hive tyrant, the hive tyrant cannot have wounds allocated directly to it by the opponent. So you get a bunch of high strength AP 2 attacks that won't go away until all the gargoyles die. So take 30-40 and have a field day. The hive tyrant has no real need for guns, although I would probably still grab EGrubs to deal with high AV
Oh hmm, interesting. That's what I thought as far as usage goes. Thanks for clarifying!
On the Malanthrope... where do I get his rules? I'm getting one from a local player here but the tournaments require I have the book/rules for all my models. I couldn't find it in the Black Library.
syypher wrote: Oh hmm, interesting. That's what I thought as far as usage goes. Thanks for clarifying!
On the Malanthrope... where do I get his rules? I'm getting one from a local player here but the tournaments require I have the book/rules for all my models. I couldn't find it in the Black Library.
Also, where are the Mucolid rules o_o?
Malanthrope is in Imperial Armour IV (along with the various Bio-titans, Dimachaeron and a couple of other niche creatures).
Mucolids are in Shield of Baal: Leviathan (along with the Toxicrene, Maleceptor, revised Zoanthrope broods, Sporocysts, Tyrannocytes and five new formations (Hypertoxic Node, Neural Node, Spore Field, Skytyrant, Skyblight and Skytide), the Cities of Death rules and Fighter Aces.
IA: IV is great (lovely story, beautiful book, good rules for our larger monsters) but SoB: Leviathan has so much great stuff in it that it's basically mandatory.
Other than that, there is the trio of Rising Leviathan dataslates. RL1 is Genestealers and Lictors, RL2 is Endless Swarm (respawning Gaunts), Skyblight and Living Artillery and RL3 is Carnifexes (plus a few bits for ground Tyrants and tunnelers, but those are mediocre in the current version of the game).
syypher wrote: Oh hmm, interesting. That's what I thought as far as usage goes. Thanks for clarifying!
On the Malanthrope... where do I get his rules? I'm getting one from a local player here but the tournaments require I have the book/rules for all my models. I couldn't find it in the Black Library.
Also, where are the Mucolid rules o_o?
Malanthrope is in Imperial Armour IV (along with the various Bio-titans, Dimachaeron and a couple of other niche creatures).
Mucolids are in Shield of Baal: Leviathan (along with the Toxicrene, Maleceptor, revised Zoanthrope broods, Sporocysts, Tyrannocytes and five new formations (Hypertoxic Node, Neural Node, Spore Field, Skytyrant, Skyblight and Skytide), the Cities of Death rules and Fighter Aces.
IA: IV is great (lovely story, beautiful book, good rules for our larger monsters) but SoB: Leviathan has so much great stuff in it that it's basically mandatory.
Other than that, there is the trio of Rising Leviathan dataslates. RL1 is Genestealers and Lictors, RL2 is Endless Swarm (respawning Gaunts), Skyblight and Living Artillery and RL3 is Carnifexes (plus a few bits for ground Tyrants and tunnelers, but those are mediocre in the current version of the game).
So I have a question. I am starting Nids and I just went to a 16 man Championship that was uber competitive the lists were like this:
(We are playing Modified maelstrom (6 obj, so I do not want max Flyrants)
Screamer Star w void shields
Land Raider Typhoon and Land Raider Achilles? on Skyshield
Barbed Hierodule Nids
Necron Wraithwing (yay got better)
Centurion Star (6 psykers!!)
CD flying circus
CD max flesh hounds w summoning
Twolf Star w eldar
Dual wraithknight w a FW knight and void shields
White Scars w IK and Nemesis strike force
12 Drop Pod list
and more i am forgetting.
Anyway I am trying to come up with a Tyranid List that I can take and do well at missions where you have 6 obj you have to potentially grab each turn.
Incognito15 wrote: So I have a question. I am starting Nids and I just went to a 16 man Championship that was uber competitive the lists were like this:
(We are playing Modified maelstrom (6 obj, so I do not want max Flyrants)
Screamer Star w void shields
Land Raider Typhoon and Land Raider Achilles? on Skyshield
Barbed Hierodule Nids
Necron Wraithwing (yay got better)
Centurion Star (6 psykers!!)
CD flying circus
CD max flesh hounds w summoning
Twolf Star w eldar
Dual wraithknight w a FW knight and void shields
White Scars w IK and Nemesis strike force
12 Drop Pod list
and more i am forgetting.
Anyway I am trying to come up with a Tyranid List that I can take and do well at missions where you have 6 obj you have to potentially grab each turn.
Thanks.
It shouldn't be too hard...try a Std CAD and use 5 or 6 Troops. then add in a good Formation like SkyTyrant, or Leviathan. Many current lists minimize Troops. so they can get Moar Tyrants! (tm)( ) A good to fair answer to Deathstars is to tarpit, and a Troop heavy force can do that with ease. You will likely want a Bastion or the like, though it is not mandatory...put a Comms relay in there if you like to Tunnel etc...
An alternative build, that is way harder to play, is to add in a Deathleaper Assassin Brood Formation. Lictors are not OS, but they are tre Killy. And fairly durable. Mawlocs are always a good unit to add, and with a Lictor spam, they become even more awesome!
You may want to try a few things out, so you can see what sort of build best suits you. A standard CAD, and Skyblight is an old classic, and it should do very well in Maelstrom.
Incognito15 wrote: So I have a question. I am starting Nids and I just went to a 16 man Championship that was uber competitive the lists were like this:
(We are playing Modified maelstrom (6 obj, so I do not want max Flyrants)
Screamer Star w void shields
Land Raider Typhoon and Land Raider Achilles? on Skyshield
Barbed Hierodule Nids
Necron Wraithwing (yay got better)
Centurion Star (6 psykers!!)
CD flying circus
CD max flesh hounds w summoning
Twolf Star w eldar
Dual wraithknight w a FW knight and void shields
White Scars w IK and Nemesis strike force
12 Drop Pod list
and more i am forgetting.
Anyway I am trying to come up with a Tyranid List that I can take and do well at missions where you have 6 obj you have to potentially grab each turn.
Thanks.
Single Lictor units and rippers are great at grabbing objectives. Mawlocs are great at countering death stars, invisible or otherwise
Incognito15 wrote: So I have a question. I am starting Nids and I just went to a 16 man Championship that was uber competitive the lists were like this: (We are playing Modified maelstrom (6 obj, so I do not want max Flyrants)
Anyway I am trying to come up with a Tyranid List that I can take and do well at missions where you have 6 obj you have to potentially grab each turn.
You want to start building your list with neccessities.
2 Flyrants -> you need these to pop armor. 2 Malanthropes -> Synapse + Survivability. 20 Gargoyles or more -> These guys are Maelstrom All Stars, and will help contain the enemy in their deployment zone. 20 Hormagants or more -> Our best maelstrom scorers. You can run them in min broods, or in a brood up to 20 to use as a tarpit. 0-1 Zoey -> Synapse + warp charge battery
From there you have lots of options. I love Dakkafexes in Maelstrom, and would consider spamming them Mixed Termagants (1/2 Devourer, 1/2 Fleshborers or Spinefist) work well. More Hormagants or Gargoyles. Mawlocs. Some formations you might consider: Living Artillery, Skytyrant, Sporefield, Deathleaper's Assassin brood, Bioblast Node. Hypertoxic node (drop a Malanthrope), or Phodian Annihilation Swarm might work, but I don't have experience with them. Manufactorum Genestealers can work if you build the rest of the list around them.
Barbed Heirodules fill so many holes in the Tyranid Codex but aren't ideal for maelstrom because they are themselves a pricey deathstar, and Maelstrom favors MSU.
ETA: Skyblight can work well in Maelstrom because of respawning OS Gargoyles.
So thanks for everyones help so far with helping build my Tyranid army up. I've officially made the conversion and traded away all my Tau and Eldar! Full on Nids now!
Now as I've been saying, our meta is pretty damn competitive. Some peeps call it "cheese" or spam builds but it's just really good tight tournament list builds usually (We enjoy it!) So here is the lists I've come up with so far. Would love to hear your opinions on it. I'm going to be building stuff and getting more models to finish it up soon. Any criticism good or bad is welcomed!
I like list 1 better. I think I would split the Gargoyles into two units of 10 though so that they could go after two objectives, but 20 works well as as a tarpit
Hey guys, I've had no time for 40k in the last month or two, I'm feeling pretty rusty LOL it's crazy how much edge you lose when you go from playing multiple games daily to not even reading about the hobby in months. Just wondering if there has been any updates for nids, last one I kept up with was the Mucolid kit!
SHUPPET wrote: Hey guys, I've had no time for 40k in the last month or two, I'm feeling pretty rusty LOL it's crazy how much edge you lose when you go from playing multiple games daily to not even reading about the hobby in months. Just wondering if there has been any updates for nids, last one I kept up with was the Mucolid kit!
Not really, the new hotness is Necrons at the minute
SHUPPET wrote: Anything that gives us troubles specifically?
MSS are a thing of the past for us. They're now a 3D6 Fear test in a challenge lol.
Wraiths got T5 for a 5 points increase and are now beast, they can also buy I5 (From I2) for 3 points.
Bargelords got nerfed, Tesla can't fire snap shots, RP is like a better FNP now, Warriors are min squads of 10, Scarabs are garbage, Flayed ones are godly (5 Attacks on the charge with shred), Annibarge went up by 30 points, 2+ save upgrade is now once per army, characters invo save is now a 4++ instead of 3++ and Scythes got more expensive.
Oh and the T-Ctan is a 250 point MC now, he got gutted.
The only thing that might cause problems is an Obelisk which is now AV14 all around base (no quantum shielding needed) and can deal with FMC's quite easily
Frozocrone wrote: The only thing that might cause problems is an Obelisk which is now AV14 all around base (no quantum shielding needed) and can deal with FMC's quite easily
It's a 500 point vehicle right?... if it couldn't deal with FMCs I'd be amazed.
heya guys
new to the Nids scene and I'm sorry of this is the wrong section,but for starting out Nids,do you recommend the Wrath of the hive mind set for starters? I play to start with a 500 point army then expand to 1000
Frozocrone wrote: The only thing that might cause problems is an Obelisk which is now AV14 all around base (no quantum shielding needed) and can deal with FMC's quite easily
It's a 500 point vehicle right?... if it couldn't deal with FMCs I'd be amazed.
Yeah, got the nerf bat after escalation, highly unlikely you'll see it.
syypher wrote: So thanks for everyones help so far with helping build my Tyranid army up. I've officially made the conversion and traded away all my Tau and Eldar! Full on Nids now!
Now as I've been saying, our meta is pretty damn competitive. Some peeps call it "cheese" or spam builds but it's just really good tight tournament list builds usually (We enjoy it!) So here is the lists I've come up with so far. Would love to hear your opinions on it. I'm going to be building stuff and getting more models to finish it up soon. Any criticism good or bad is welcomed!
List 1 definitely. Your carnifexes hit the board and immediately do something, versus a turn three charge at the earliest for your Dimachaeron.
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Pertruabo wrote: heya guys
new to the Nids scene and I'm sorry of this is the wrong section,but for starting out Nids,do you recommend the Wrath of the hive mind set for starters? I play to start with a 500 point army then expand to 1000
Yeah, it should be a really good start. Your next purchases might be the dual-Carnifex box to give you plenty of stompy monsters.
Pertruabo wrote: heya guys
new to the Nids scene and I'm sorry of this is the wrong section,but for starting out Nids,do you recommend the Wrath of the hive mind set for starters? I play to start with a 500 point army then expand to 1000
It is a fine choice...I suggest you consider magnets for the Tervigon/Tyrannofex though, hard to know which will be best for you, till you play a bunch of games.
Thanks for the input. Yeah I like the Dimachaeron but like you all pointed out, it won't be doing anything until turn 3 at the earliest.
Anything you guys see as glaring weaknesses or anything that can be adjusted with the list to make it even better or have more "teeth"? I'm trying to make it TAC as possible. Wish it had more anti-high AV though. I guess Carnys can punch and the eGrubs can pull me through most situations.
Also the Gargs are for the tarpitting So I think I'll keep it at 20. But 2x groups of 10 sounds great for those certain missions..
Looks "toothy" enough to me. You've got Tyrannocytes, Carnifexes, and Rippers to control/contest objectives, plus the firepower of Flyrants and carnifexes to mess with anything other than av13/T10, and Egrubs and Carnifex assault to deal with AV13+.
Sinful Hero wrote: Looks "toothy" enough to me. You've got Tyrannocytes, Carnifexes, and Rippers to control/contest objectives, plus the firepower of Flyrants and carnifexes to mess with anything other than av13/T10, and Egrubs and Carnifex assault to deal with AV13+.
Haha thanks. I was actually messing around with doing 5x Flyrants and it's doable but I feel like the list misses out on being able to deal with other angles when I go that route >_<
Sinful Hero wrote: Looks "toothy" enough to me. You've got Tyrannocytes, Carnifexes, and Rippers to control/contest objectives, plus the firepower of Flyrants and carnifexes to mess with anything other than av13/T10, and Egrubs and Carnifex assault to deal with AV13+.
Haha thanks. I was actually messing around with doing 5x Flyrants and it's doable but I feel like the list misses out on being able to deal with other angles when I go that route >_<
5 x Flyrants = win. ( pretty much)
If you can do it and not be hated by your gaming group then do it!
Sinful Hero wrote: Looks "toothy" enough to me. You've got Tyrannocytes, Carnifexes, and Rippers to control/contest objectives, plus the firepower of Flyrants and carnifexes to mess with anything other than av13/T10, and Egrubs and Carnifex assault to deal with AV13+.
Haha thanks. I was actually messing around with doing 5x Flyrants and it's doable but I feel like the list misses out on being able to deal with other angles when I go that route >_<
5 x Flyrants = win. ( pretty much)
If you can do it and not be hated by your gaming group then do it!
Only problem there is you have even fewer models to score objectives if you end up with a maelstrom objectives, or some thing similar. Plus you basically trade the E. grubs and wings for 15 S5 shots and a second body to score objectives.
Tyrannocytes are actually great at grabbing objectives and stupidly hard to remove when you sit them in some nice cover (and I mean, if you have the Malanthrope up there too, then good night!)
Carnifex are also better than most people give them credit for in Maelstrom. Although they are slow, they are also excellent area denial units. Few are the models courageous enough to move into charge range of a carnifex unless they are certain that they can down it before it gets the charge (tough to do if the Fex comes out of a pod). Plus, they are great distraction Carnifexes (especially because they are actually Carnifexes!). Every shot at them is a shot that isn't at a hive tyrant. 4/5 Flyrants ought to have a huge upper hand against most armies for the eternal war missions/objectives, so if you can keep up for the first couple turns in maelstrom, you'll be fine since the scales will progressively tip more and more in your favor (assuming BAO/LVO format here)
Frozocrone wrote: I'm thinking of running a Skyblight/Hive Fleet Detachment list for an 1850 tourny coming up in my LGC.
What would be the best way to deploy the Gargoyles? All in DS reserve so that you can DS in if they respawn, or all on table or a mix?
I think that's something that needs to be decided on a match-by-match basis. If you have several in your deployment zone deploy one or two normally; if they're scattered everywhere you might deep strike in a few.
Frozocrone wrote: The only thing that might cause problems is an Obelisk which is now AV14 all around base (no quantum shielding needed) and can deal with FMC's quite easily
It's not a big deal. It doesn't have skyfire, Tesla got nerfed (no more addition hits if snapfiring) and with 6HP's, we can easily chip away at it with egrubs.
More importantly will be what is in the rest of the army. The Obelisk shouldn't be a huge target priority. There are other units more dangerous/important in the Necron army.
Pertruabo wrote: heya guys
new to the Nids scene and I'm sorry of this is the wrong section,but for starting out Nids,do you recommend the Wrath of the hive mind set for starters? I play to start with a 500 point army then expand to 1000
Personally, I wouldn't recommend it, but it really depends on what type of playstyle you like. If you like bugs on the ground, then its ok. But frankly, I'd invest in a Hive Tyrant box (make a flyrant), get some ripper swarms and the carnifex kit. These are units that you can build your army on.
Thanks for the input. Yeah I like the Dimachaeron but like you all pointed out, it won't be doing anything until turn 3 at the earliest.
Anything you guys see as glaring weaknesses or anything that can be adjusted with the list to make it even better or have more "teeth"? I'm trying to make it TAC as possible. Wish it had more anti-high AV though. I guess Carnys can punch and the eGrubs can pull me through most situations.
Also the Gargs are for the tarpitting So I think I'll keep it at 20. But 2x groups of 10 sounds great for those certain missions..
I'm assuming the carnifexes you are running are dakkafexes? And your rippers have Deepstrike?
Frozocrone wrote: I'm thinking of running a Skyblight/Hive Fleet Detachment list for an 1850 tourny coming up in my LGC.
What would be the best way to deploy the Gargoyles? All in DS reserve so that you can DS in if they respawn, or all on table or a mix?
It really depends on what your opponent brings, but typically, I'd deploy 2 and deepstrike 1 (minimum). Sometimes, I only deploy 1 and deepstrike 2, but I almost always keep 1 in reserves to deepstrike in later.
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SHUPPET wrote: Anything that gives us troubles specifically?
Nothing really.
I don't yet know what will be the new Necron super-build, but I can tell you right now that IMO, they aren't as scary as the Oldcrons.
Eldercaveman wrote: If I have a Leviathan primary, and a formation. Does that formation count as being from the Leviathan detachment?
If not, and I select my warlord from the formation, does it get to choose where it takes it warlord trait from?
No, the formation will not have any of the special rules and Command Benefits of the Leviathan detachment, though it can still benefit from Warlord traits and army buffs if it was a Battle Brothers ally (like Tyranids + Tyranids).
For the formation, you pick the Warlord trait from the BRB. You cannot pick it from a Detachment that it isn't a part of. So for example, Leviathan + Skyblight. The Flyrant in the Skyblight formation cannot pick a Leviathan Warlord trait. It can only pick from the traits from the BRB.
I lean heavily towards spending as few points as I can, so I expect to use x20 Gargoyles (plus I only own 20 
Could you find enough points to get Fighter Ace? that would be a very nice upgrade on the Warlord. 
Would removing two Tyrannocytes from the first list be worth it? Then I could decide whether to start the Dimachaerons or Carnifexes on the board depending on the army I'm facing (maybe have some screening/tarpit units).
That just looks dang tempting to me. 
... 
