I really don''t see that many classes of titan coming out, I could see something smaller than the warhound or something bigger than the warlord but other than that I fuger we'd just see traitor or corrupted or daemonicly possesed titan kits. And even then the worry would be fw resin ugprade kits for existing titans.
Well, there’s still the Titans based off the Slaanesh Questor and Subjugator Titans from 2nd edition epic. They could be the between Warhound and Reaver Titan class.
Anyway, do people think we'll see a plastic Imperator at some stage?
Don’t see why not, though probably not plastic. It’ll be a big seller. Slow as buggery in game with firepower enough to flatten a Warlord. Hope they reintroduce plasma management like in 2nd edition but somewhat simplified a bit.
I dunno, the warlord is already about as slow and unwieldly as I feel meaningful in game, I'd rather see daemon/possessed warlord equiv to the psi titan before anything bigger gets put out. Even AT's designer in the AMA basically said they never planned to do anything that big, I mean even 4 warlords is about 2000pts so I don't know what good like a 1000pt titan would be for the game. It'd be a sick model, I hope they make it, but game wise, AT doesn't scale up very well because of the alternating activations.
gorgon wrote: They have multiple Imperial Titan chassis in development...
What's your source on this? Just curious.
Looks like you're the one who wrote this up:
LOL! I guess I was hoping for a newer information source.
I was honestly expecting some of that to be out by now, and the never ending Knight releases have surprised me given their older plans. Well, I guess we can continue to hope!
Yeah, I too would have thought we'd have more than one new chassis by now, given that we're two years past the launch. Pandemic was probably a huge monkey wrench to be fair. Stuff undoubtedly dropped off the manufacturing schedule in order for GW to get their big releases out this year...and keep up with pent-up demand.
I'm all for a modern Imperator kit, it'd be a gorgeous centerpiece. I sort of feel like they would have the same gameplay issues as titans in 40k, the scale is just not right for them. Imperator/Warbringer should have crazy devastating weapons able to reach across multiple table lengths. Is that actually fun to play with?
Imperators need 3mm scale? Seems a bit drastic to me, surely an update of the current system (not unlikely, given the various iterations of the other modern specialist games) could accommodate an Imperator? Incidentally, this would also be an ideal time to release such a kit.
I think they could be toned down with plasma management. A bit like orders but with a lot more give and take. Want to fire at full strength with the Imperator Plasma Annihilator? You ain't moving or doing much repairing. Need to active your close range defences? You'll need to sacrifice your long range firepower. That kind of thing.
Yeah, I reckon Imperators should be no slower in a straight line than Warlords but have a boosted manoeuvre of 1
That said, I also want them to have D6 bonus reactor charges/turn to represent their insanely overpowered reactor. Bad things happen if the roll is more than the remaining pips on the stress track though.
Also, a reserve Void array for the castle (main voids down? Roll location as normal, hits on the castle (special location) get to roll void saves on their separate track) and maybe head.
But mostly I don’t want them in-game until there are infantry for it to transport/be boarded by.
To me the Imperator is the same as a knight in 40K. Yes it can fit on the table and look awesome; but it needs a bigger style of battles to really work well. So I can't see them being present until later in the games development; when there are larger collections out there and people can envision putting 5 warlords down to counter an Imperator etc....
It'll be a waste of time and resource for an already snail pace release game. The release of AI massively slow down progress on AT, in the near future when another game come out it'll be even slower for both AT and AI.
Prometheum5 wrote: I'm all for a modern Imperator kit, it'd be a gorgeous centerpiece. I sort of feel like they would have the same gameplay issues as titans in 40k, the scale is just not right for them. Imperator/Warbringer should have crazy devastating weapons able to reach across multiple table lengths. Is that actually fun to play with?
This. It also turns my victory options into “can I knack the Imperator or not”.
However, I think it would better suit Full Epic battles.
Mr_Rose wrote: Yeah, I reckon Imperators should be no slower in a straight line than Warlords but have a boosted manoeuvre of 1
That said, I also want them to have D6 bonus reactor charges/turn to represent their insanely overpowered reactor. Bad things happen if the roll is more than the remaining pips on the stress track though.
Also, a reserve Void array for the castle (main voids down? Roll location as normal, hits on the castle (special location) get to roll void saves on their separate track) and maybe head.
But mostly I don’t want them in-game until there are infantry for it to transport/be boarded by.
Infantry are already in the game, molech has them "titan hunter infantry". They're really good too.
I think the team is just being very careful to not get people's hopes up. Same as how whenever Epic is mentioned they say no its not coming.
Right now its a 30K era game and that's all they will market it as. Even though with its general success we would expect to see Chaos and Xenos appear at some stage.
I'd wager we might see an Imperator once Xenos start landing since the Xenos have their own Imperator equivalents through things like mega gargants and such. Granted I recall the old TL rules one Imperator was worth around 2 mega gargants or thereabouts. Thing is once you step the game up at that level I'm sure an Imperator will work; esp since by then the Imperium will have legions of knights
SamusDrake wrote: Ordered Defence of Ryza and will leave it there for the time being.
Hopefully the game will pick up over christmas and the new year...
Push the starter set locally/with friends, it's been slowly working here, my sales pitch is "it's 280$ worth of models for 180$, and only 6 models to paint, you may actually play this game". My buddy's almost got his starter painted, playing on sunday. Hardcore pragmatism works, not a lot of people can paint a whole 40k or aos army but actually can make the time for 5-10 models.
Unfortunately the gaming tables are closed in my area due to the covid situation. Been surviving on the odd game with my brother for the last few months and with little variation in the game its grown stale.
The starter set is definitely the best release so far for Titanicus and Its always tempting, but its sadly more of what we already own. We've thought long and hard about either the Warlord and Warbringer but they are a bit outside our budget for the game, although hopefully a discount set at christmas will put that to rights.
SamusDrake wrote: Unfortunately the gaming tables are closed in my area due to the covid situation. Been surviving on the odd game with my brother for the last few months and with little variation in the game its grown stale.
The starter set is definitely the best release so far for Titanicus and Its always tempting, but its sadly more of what we already own. We've thought long and hard about either the Warlord and Warbringer but they are a bit outside our budget for the game, although hopefully a discount set at christmas will put that to rights.
Well if you have the chance to game with your brother, give our AT scenario a try and lemme know what ya think https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/787202.page#10920502 We're working on V3, should be out soon, just waiting on crucible of retribution to make sure we're not adding stuff that's redundant. Hopefully the book arrives next week.
Warbringer I'm liking over warlord if you guys had to choose. I like that it's that extra little bit faster and with a bit of conversion can swap weapons with reavers. I like my warlord but it is cumbersome and expensive, tends to get relegated to bigger games.
Racerguy180 wrote: Starter set plus whatever box of knights/other titans you want is a great value and allows you to fill out as you want depending on maniple/legio.
still GW's best game....ever!!!!!!!
more so everytime I play. 2 more locals are getting starter boxes so I'm excited. one is really intrested in the new "unaligned" legions.
Nice!
It really is their best game
Ya dark tide look awesome. Blackshields sound really cool.
Well if you have the chance to game with your brother, give our AT scenario a try and lemme know what ya think https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/787202.page#10920502 We're working on V3, should be out soon, just waiting on crucible of retribution to make sure we're not adding stuff that's redundant. Hopefully the book arrives next week.
Warbringer I'm liking over warlord if you guys had to choose. I like that it's that extra little bit faster and with a bit of conversion can swap weapons with reavers. I like my warlord but it is cumbersome and expensive, tends to get relegated to bigger games.
That I shall look forward to.
Speaking of which, we came up with a homebrew which took AT to the micro-scale; knights act independently and a single Scion, Warhound or Reaver would take command of them. Should get off my lazy ass and make a similar effort. I guess a new thread wouldn't hurt...
Yes, the Warbringer is certainly the better candidate. We love the look of the Warlord better - especially the Sunfury variant - but as you say he's really a titan for larger games.
Tried to come up with suitable scenerarios for a solitaire-coop mission, but nothing springs to mind yet. At best we envision a lone warhound running a gauntlet to regroup with its battle group.
I wonder if we ever see a Hardcover Rulebook, "second" Edition maybe?
Overread wrote: I think the team is just being very careful to not get people's hopes up. Same as how whenever Epic is mentioned they say no its not coming.
I already changed to the point, that I don't believe what ever they confirm, or deny...
RazorEdge wrote: I wonder if we ever see a Hardcover Rulebook, "second" Edition maybe?
Overread wrote: I think the team is just being very careful to not get people's hopes up. Same as how whenever Epic is mentioned they say no its not coming.
I already changed to the point, that I don't believe what ever they confirm, or deny...
I’m more lightly worried they’d oversize it, I remember some guy claiming it would be similar in size to a full scale reaver when it’d obviously be more like a full scale imperial knight with some shoulder buildings.
Yeah idk what he was on about when he said that. Maybe it was just a hyperbolic joke and we missed the context, because when you look at the Titan Legions Imperator, it's a lot more massive than a Warlord but it's only about twice the height. The fluff for official size varies a bit, but as far as models go (and this is the only official Imperator we've ever had), the claim they made back then was absurdly overestimated A 40K scale Castellan would be sufficient.
Well if you have the chance to game with your brother, give our AT scenario a try and lemme know what ya think https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/787202.page#10920502 We're working on V3, should be out soon, just waiting on crucible of retribution to make sure we're not adding stuff that's redundant. Hopefully the book arrives next week.
Warbringer I'm liking over warlord if you guys had to choose. I like that it's that extra little bit faster and with a bit of conversion can swap weapons with reavers. I like my warlord but it is cumbersome and expensive, tends to get relegated to bigger games.
That I shall look forward to.
Speaking of which, we came up with a homebrew which took AT to the micro-scale; knights act independently and a single Scion, Warhound or Reaver would take command of them. Should get off my lazy ass and make a similar effort. I guess a new thread wouldn't hurt...
Yes, the Warbringer is certainly the better candidate. We love the look of the Warlord better - especially the Sunfury variant - but as you say he's really a titan for larger games.
Tried to come up with suitable scenerarios for a solitaire-coop mission, but nothing springs to mind yet. At best we envision a lone warhound running a gauntlet to regroup with its battle group.
Maybe the warhound agaisnt some battlefield assets like the armageddon missile battery or the macro cannon, could modify how titan hunter infantry work. They're all pretty resilient too, usually best to step on them.
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JWBS wrote: Yeah idk what he was on about when he said that. Maybe it was just a hyperbolic joke and we missed the context, because when you look at the Titan Legions Imperator, it's a lot more massive than a Warlord but it's only about twice the height. The fluff for official size varies a bit, but as far as models go (and this is the only official Imperator we've ever had), the claim they made back then was absurdly overestimated A 40K scale Castellan would be sufficient.
I feel like anything more than about 30-40% taller than a warlord just gets really absurd. It just needs to be bigger and have a cool castle on the top. I don't think it'd be great for the game but it is one hell of iconic model, for me it was my first exposure to 40k, giant card board cut out of that thing in front of gw in the mall, like it even comes before a space marines in terms of symbol of the absurdity and awesome scale that makes up 40k.
The rapier would be better for the game though, really hope that rumour ends up being true.
Spoiler:
This is one of the better attempts I've seen, if gw can pull off something like this, perhaps a bit shorter, it'd be incredible to behold
I feel like anything more than about 30-40% taller than a warlord just gets really absurd. It just needs to be bigger and have a cool castle on the top.
I agree. Imperator should be to Warlord what Warlord is to Reaver, that would be in keeping with the spirit imo. Warlords are a lot bigger than Reavers, which are a lot bigger than Warhounds, but none of them are ludicrously outsizing the next one up, example -
so I think if you take something the size of a 40K Knight and add the buildings on top, that would be sufficient
(could perhaps be a little bigger but definitely doesn't need to be twice the height)
Most of the conversions I’ve seen are based on the Dominus class knight, which happens to be just a little bigger than the regular Questoris in that image. Also a bit broader in the shoulder.
Something around the size of the 40K Dominus Knight would probably be good for an Imperators main body with the "castle" on top giving extra height. I would be wary of using the old Epic models for comparative sizes though as that ranges internal scale was vague at best and the Titan models were much smaller(old Epic Warlord is smaller than the AT Warhound)
Aside from the Epic rehashes I hope we do get some new types, and that they add some variation to the body types and silhouettes in the model line.
In one of the engine kill articles, one of the studio guys converted a castellan into an Imperator using civitas bits. something along those lines would be cool for an actual kit.
A second edition would certainly happen. The question is if it remains Imperial VS Imperial or if they use a second edition to advance either to include actual warped chaos titans and/or to include xenos races appearing.
Meanwhile, Friday sees two new patterns of Questoris Knight released for Adeptus Titanicus. The Magaera is armed with the destructive lightning cannon, which can obliterate smaller targets and cause damage to larger ones thanks to the Blast and Rending traits. Its sister Knight, the Styrix, is armed with a volkite chieorovile – the perfect weapon for stripping void shields from enemy Titans. Both are armed with a Hekaton siege claw, meaning they can finish off anything that survives their deadly barrages at close range.
These Knights are also equipped with ionic flare shields, giving them great protection as they quickly move into position. Any Princeps will definitely want to add a Banner of these Knights to their force.
The Magaera is armed with the destructive lightning cannon, which can obliterate smaller targets and cause damage to larger ones thanks to the Blast and Rending traits.
The Magaera is armed with the destructive lightning cannon, which can obliterate smaller targets and cause damage to larger ones thanks to the Blast and Rending traits.
Could this be a hint of something smaller?
I think it just means smaller targets in the game like other knights, as opposed to bigger targets like titans.
The Magaera is armed with the destructive lightning cannon, which can obliterate smaller targets and cause damage to larger ones thanks to the Blast and Rending traits.
Could this be a hint of something smaller?
I think it just means smaller targets in the game like other knights, as opposed to bigger targets like titans.
I agree, I doubt we would see Armiger Knights or Epic that soonish....
Chopstick wrote: Atrapos is next, art in new book, no sight of armiger.
Meltagun(the infantry version) is S8, and autocannon is s4 in this game, so Armiger is cheap source for both Anti Titan and shield stripping.
Just Atrapos as you say and then Asterios and we're up to date on Knights.
Not sure if the Armiger or the even the Dominus will appear. Dominus appears a bit weird and disjointed for this game. It's my opinion that it's been eminently scaled around games of 40K and not much thought about how it'd work in engagements in general in the universe. Largely short range weapons with a few exceptions. Not forgetting that it's festooned with smaller callibre weaponry. Looking at the 30k rules (see here) and applying a heap of back of cigarette packet guessing, the knight's armaments could be:
Main guns: - Thundercoil Harpoon could be a cut down version of the Ursus Claw - melee range only - Conflaguration Cannon would be an Inferno gun - Volcanon Lance could like a single shot Acastus Magma Lascannon round - Plasma Decimator would be weaker Plasma Blastgun with no blast
General range of most weapons would be 16"-20" with the Volcano Lance an exception.
The Armigers would be a far more interesting proposition especially if they bring out the Armiger Moirax Knights and their esoteric Weapons. Graviton Pulsars and Conversion Beamers could be quite effective.
The range of weapon in this game is effectively their 40k/30k range divided by 3, except for a few because rule writers aren't sober that day. And those weapons broke the game some way or the other.
And Thundercoil Harpoon isn't used the same way as Ursus Claw.
Next releases are blatantly going to be the Knight Atrapos (probably in resin as similar hull detailing to the styrix and magaera) and the Warbringer with the Volcano cannon
JWBS wrote: Yeah idk what he was on about when he said that. Maybe it was just a hyperbolic joke and we missed the context, because when you look at the Titan Legions Imperator, it's a lot more massive than a Warlord but it's only about twice the height. The fluff for official size varies a bit, but as far as models go (and this is the only official Imperator we've ever had), the claim they made back then was absurdly overestimated A 40K scale Castellan would be sufficient.
Imperator 55m, warlord 33m. Thus about 2/3 as tall as warlord does it. Most of that extra height being the big cathedral.
Castellan is probably decent start for the body itself to have head sufficiently tall. Cathedral would add bit more I think. Castellan isn't that much taller than regular knight which is about warlord size.
Left foot
Left leg
Right foot
Right leg
Hips
Banner
Body left
Body right
Body front
Reactor
Carapace
Shoulder × 2
Gun elbow
CCW elbow/body
Gun shield/barrel
CCW claw
Probably, anyway. They could, with the flexibility of resin, make the body one or two pieces instead and have more to spare for weapon details though. The plastic models are actually in more parts; the castigator for example has 4-6 bits for the gun depending on how you count the ammo feed and hopper.
@Zedmeister and Mr_Rose thanks for the likely part breakdown, I should not be shocked having already put together a plastic Questoris set.
I am usually quite price flexible on GW products, but given my entry point to the game was the bargainous 2 Reaver/2 Warhounds/2 Cerastus set for sub £80 these are just too expensive for me. I just hope that FW taking these means that GW has been able to concentrate on a new plastic Titan for release at some point in quarter 1 or 2 2021.
Got a set each. Will probably get another set each some point in the future to make a full maniple of 4 knights each.
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ListenToMeWarriors wrote: @Zedmeister and Mr_Rose thanks for the likely part breakdown, I should not be shocked having already put together a plastic Questoris set.
I am usually quite price flexible on GW products, but given my entry point to the game was the bargainous 2 Reaver/2 Warhounds/2 Cerastus set for sub £80 these are just too expensive for me. I just hope that FW taking these means that GW has been able to concentrate on a new plastic Titan for release at some point in quarter 1 or 2 2021.
No worries. Obviously, it's all personal prefernces. Just wanted to mention the part count is not unusal compared to the plastics. Models are nice but the FW quality control will put off more than most. Still, AT (along with Necromunda and AI) is my main GW game these days so, with no money going on the 40k moneypit, I can spare a bit extra for the resin.
I'm skipping these. I'm happy to support the game by buying books and cards until we can get some plastic kits that aren't Knights.
The Open War deck is *great*...so great that I picked up a second deck. Not to scalp, but because I know at least one of my friends will probably miss out on it and regret it later.
gorgon wrote: The Open War deck is *great*...so great that I picked up a second deck. Not to scalp, but because I know at least one of my friends will probably miss out on it and regret it later.
I'd go further and say it's amazing for what it offers. Real shame that the cards are limited but it's easy enough to transfer to a series of tables that you can roll off on, so hopefully GW will move to duplicate the cards with tables in books.
SamusDrake wrote: Is the Open War deck focused on open play, or just a quick way to get matched play up and running?
Both really. Deck is divided into Deployment maps, Primary Objectives, Secondary Objectives, planetary effects and battlefield effects. You don't have to use all options in a deck, so if you wanted to leave out secondary objectives for example, you can. There's no refernce to open or matched play in the deck. If you're able to, grab a deck.
gorgon wrote: The Open War deck is *great*...so great that I picked up a second deck. Not to scalp, but because I know at least one of my friends will probably miss out on it and regret it later.
I'd go further and say it's amazing for what it offers. Real shame that the cards are limited but it's easy enough to transfer to a series of tables that you can roll off on, so hopefully GW will move to duplicate the cards with tables in books.
I ordered my second deck from Amazon at regular price just the other day. So there may be some still out there for players who are interested. Personally, I'd say they should be if they're a fan of AT.
I'd like to put my deck in sleeves, but if I do that I'm going to need a new deck box, and they don't really exist in that size that I can find. *Sigh*...those first world problems...
SamusDrake wrote: Is the Open War deck focused on open play, or just a quick way to get matched play up and running?
Both really. Deck is divided into Deployment maps, Primary Objectives, Secondary Objectives, planetary effects and battlefield effects. You don't have to use all options in a deck, so if you wanted to leave out secondary objectives for example, you can. There's no refernce to open or matched play in the deck. If you're able to, grab a deck.
Yeah I think that's the best part about it, because you can drop any cards it's very easy to edit. Damn shame it's limited though, it seems infinitely better than the lackluster core match play scenarios. It's not perfect mind you, I'd be dropping all the tri angular deployment maps out of the deck right off the bat.
I think the shame with the new knights is we have to wait for the player base to see the rules for the models they're trying to sell us. That's just a damn shame, I really think they should preview the command terminal a bit more, right now we're not even 100% sure on banner size, it's like 3-6 because they're questoris but these are also new command terminals with different weapons and rules so it could be 2-4 for all we know, also don't even know if there's weapon options on either model so that also affects knowing how many a player might need to purchase to pull off a certain loadout.
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SamusDrake wrote: Is the Open War deck focused on open play, or just a quick way to get matched play up and running?
Wish I had preordered them but its yet another sign of GW jerking AT players around. Not good at all.
Oh, the knight kits released so far have been in at least their minimum banner size. If the new machanicum knights were at least 3 knights they would have been just included the third and increased the price accordingly.
Wish I had preordered them but its yet another sign of GW jerking AT players around. Not good at all.
Oh, the knight kits released so far have been in at least their minimum banner size. If the new machanicum knights were at least 3 knights they would have been just included the third and increased the price accordingly.
Just sent you a PM - ignore the eBay link as I found a place cheaper and reputable
Not right away(hobby budget) but eventually likely. Especially shield stripping one interests
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Chopstick wrote: Magaera is pointless because its gun is just a worse version of rapid fire battle cannon, and it's probably is more expensive.
Until you run into squadrons or knight banners.
Also funny assumption it will be more expensive AND worse. Now if gw main studio wrote rules sure. Plastic vs resin. However fw has shown less inclination to screw resin rules for sake of profit
Also funny assumption it will be more expensive AND worse. Now if gw main studio wrote rules sure. Plastic vs resin. However fw has shown less inclination to screw resin rules for sake of profit
You don't expect to hit 2 knights with a 3" blast unless you fought a pretty dumb player, or the shot scattered, which mean you lose the bonus hit for center shot, and even worse, it could hit your own unit. In that case the RFBC does 2 shot, and risk-free.
Styrix - max banner 4 knights - Initial price is 100 for two + weapons which are between 10-15pts an arm. Additional knights can be added for 45pts per chassis. Graviton gun upgrade with a S3 hit with concussive. Won't do much apart from slap em about a bit. Can be armed with two Volkite Chieroviles(!) Magaera - pretty much the same
Styrix - max banner 4 knights - Initial price is 100 for two + weapons which are between 10-15pts an arm. Additional knights can be added for 45pts per chassis. Graviton gun upgrade with a S3 hit with concussive. Won't do much apart from slap em about a bit. Can be armed with two Volkite Chieroviles(!)
Magaera - pretty much the same
They seem way too expensive point wise, I was excited to see 100pts and 2-4 cuz it meant something I could potentially cram into a battlegroup but if they're gonna be like 140-160pts for 2 it just seems silly, that's almost as much as 2 lancers. The hekaton's are unfortunately only S6, they have rending but sorta dissapointing. Definitely happy you can potentially do dual volkite, that seems like the only viable build IMO.
Any chance we could get specific costing for the styrix's weapons? It's a bit weird being asked to buy something by forgeworld essentially blind.
So, Stupid question probably
do you think they will ever add like, Xenos Factions? They have enough Super Heavies to make it worth it i think for others.
Tau can get like Stormsurges, Riptides, Surpremacy suits and the like.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, Stupid question probably
do you think they will ever add like, Xenos Factions? They have enough Super Heavies to make it worth it i think for others.
Tau can get like Stormsurges, Riptides, Surpremacy suits and the like.
Probably years away. The setting for the game is unabashedly the HH, and they apparently have more Imperial Titans in the works, and presumably corrupted (Chaos) versions of the Imperial lines. It feels like COVID really hit AT harder than some of the other lines, as we've been getting campaign books but with extremely light miniatures support.
If xenos happens, I expect it'd have a historical setting like the HH, and Orks and Eldar would be the favorites to get support in that scenario.
I don't see xenos happening, even the chaos titan and knights along with blackshields, I suspect sadly will likely just be fw upgrade kits for plastic titans and won't even have their own "corrupted" or "blackshield" command terminals. Even the last fw efforts point to low effort on the gaming accesory side, with no option to even buy the command terminals in card stock, you get crappy paper that doesn't even hold the pips without a hole punch. Why buy a psi titan to just get the crappy paper command terminal? le sigh
One consideration for the styrix a friend pointed out, each claw is doing 2 attacks, so dual claw might be ok given they have rending.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, Stupid question probably do you think they will ever add like, Xenos Factions? They have enough Super Heavies to make it worth it i think for others. Tau can get like Stormsurges, Riptides, Surpremacy suits and the like.
They said in one of the early videos that they'll do different campaigns to introduce Xenos factions - War of the Beast was mentioned for Orks.
Crablezworth wrote: I don't see xenos happening, even the chaos titan and knights along with blackshields, I suspect sadly will likely just be fw upgrade kits for plastic titans and won't even have their own "corrupted" or "blackshield" command terminals. Even the last fw efforts point to low effort on the gaming accesory side, with no option to even buy the command terminals in card stock, you get crappy paper that doesn't even hold the pips without a hole punch. Why buy a psi titan to just get the crappy paper command terminal? le sigh
IIRC they can do the paper ones in-house but need to contract out the thicker ones.
In other news; checking out the new strategem card in White Dwarf!
"Venerable Machine spirit".
For one titan only and at a cost of 2, it raises the WS and BS +1 for the rest of the battle and may issue repair and charge orders without a command check.
Downside is that the command value is reduced by 3.
SamusDrake wrote: In other news; checking out the new strategem card in White Dwarf!
"Venerable Machine spirit".
For one titan only and at a cost of 2, it raises the WS and BS +1 for the rest of the battle and may issue repair and charge orders without a command check.
Downside is that the command value is reduced by 3.
Seems cool, it also has that if it fails its command check to quell the machine spirit the belligerent result is automatically applied.
Seems cool, sorta like a titan of legend. The ballistic bump is just all around great regardless of load out, whether high shot or blast heavy. Definitely cool on a reaver or up.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, Stupid question probably
do you think they will ever add like, Xenos Factions? They have enough Super Heavies to make it worth it i think for others.
Tau can get like Stormsurges, Riptides, Surpremacy suits and the like.
Not for the foreseeable future, sadly.
However, there are such things as ork freebooter titans and knights. With little effort one could easily use plasticard to convert models in the current range, and if memory serves correctly...there are those who have written homebrew rules for such a faction.
At the very least, I could see it happening in White Dwarf...
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, Stupid question probably
do you think they will ever add like, Xenos Factions? They have enough Super Heavies to make it worth it i think for others.
Tau can get like Stormsurges, Riptides, Surpremacy suits and the like.
Not for the foreseeable future, sadly.
However, there are such things as ork freebooter titans and knights. With little effort one could easily use plasticard to convert models in the current range, and if memory serves correctly...there are those who have written homebrew rules for such a faction.
At the very least, I could see it happening in White Dwarf...
I think the only viable route is count as, like tau for example could work as an all knight force, acastus could be superiority armour, stormsurge could or riptides could be questoris, lancers could just be a bunch of crisis on a base like taking oof or landing with their jetpacks so they're the same height overall, like a swarm base from 40k.
Orks or eldar count as could work but you'd need some really absurdly big gargants for orks and eldar would need to scale up some of their titans so their size/base makes sense.
Crablezworth wrote: I don't see xenos happening, even the chaos titan and knights along with blackshields, I suspect sadly will likely just be fw upgrade kits for plastic titans and won't even have their own "corrupted" or "blackshield" command terminals. Even the last fw efforts point to low effort on the gaming accesory side, with no option to even buy the command terminals in card stock, you get crappy paper that doesn't even hold the pips without a hole punch. Why buy a psi titan to just get the crappy paper command terminal? le sigh
Since I discovered the joys of rubber steel sheet, now I actually prefer the paper terminals.
The 30K titans are the same as the 40K titans. So there is nothing to stop GW advancing the games age forward and introducing Chaos tainted and totally custom warped titans and then on toward Xenos.
Indeed because of the nature of the game at some stage they will likely have to do it to keep having releases.
I see it as something that will happen, when is hard to say and could well be years off. I think the AT team is very strict in never saying yes nor no because its not current marketing. In fact the only long term marketing GW has ever really done is the Old World game tease. Otherwise they tend to focus on a more 3 month or so window of marketing and info release (with them now attempting an annual update for Necromunda).
The 30K titans are the same as the 40K titans. So there is nothing to stop GW advancing the games age forward and introducing Chaos tainted and totally custom warped titans and then on toward Xenos.
Indeed because of the nature of the game at some stage they will likely have to do it to keep having releases.
I see it as something that will happen, when is hard to say and could well be years off. I think the AT team is very strict in never saying yes nor no because its not current marketing. In fact the only long term marketing GW has ever really done is the Old World game tease. Otherwise they tend to focus on a more 3 month or so window of marketing and info release (with them now attempting an annual update for Necromunda).
AT's reddit has a AMA with the original game designer, it was basically just meant to be like 3-5 titans, that's also the unlikeliness of ever seeing the imperator or warmongers because he's asked about it and it's basically just too out of whack with the other titans. Now this I believe was before the warbringer came out, not sure if that was in the works from the start. I personally find controllong more than 5 titans pretty daunting in terms of space and mental capacity. Unless gargants and eldar titans function more or less similarly to the titans I just don't ever see it. Also, what works well about the game is the mirrored nature, its what keeps it somewhat balanced but also both sides tend to know the stats quickly because all the weapons and titans/knights are available to them.
Unless epic is in the works I just don't see AT expanding in that direction. If we're lucky we'll get more plastic kits for chaos/blackshields, but even then, this is a company that's been able to keep like 2 legio decal sheets in stock/manufactured, for a game that has rules for dozens of titan legions. Not to mention you don't have on the fw side them pumping out legio specific upgrade kits for heraldry, just like shield plaques and banners/flags. So I dunno, the game didn't even make sense marketing wise until the newest starter, which is fantastic. But even the initial starter is sorta baffling, having like the two extremes in scale in the game and a crazy high price with little savings compared to the new starter.
It's more possile they expand AT with something like Pseudo-Epic with very very rudimentary Units like Space Marine Infantry & Tanks or start to release a full Epic (which is set also in the HH) before they release Xenos für AT.
Well, I wouldn't expect pseudo-Epic, and I don't know why xenos would have to be structured differently in terms of force composition either.
It could still be 3-5 Titans, but with Phantoms-Revenants-Wraithknights or Great Gargants-Gargants-Stompas, etc. instead of the Imperial makes/size classes.
Orks have a huge range of Titans, meanwhile forces ilke Eldar and Tyranids can easily have new titans added. The only reason we don't have more of them is because those respective ranges didn't start in the original Titan Legions game and when they did arrive in Epic/Epic40K etc... those games didn't last long before they died off. So there just wasn't time to take their ranges further.
I do agree the design team were very cautious with the game, but I think that if it keeps selling strongly they will keep adding to what they will do and the more it sells the more chance Warped Chaos titans and Xenos will appear. They just don't want to say "yes" until its "Yes in 3 months time the product is on the shelf".
The only hiccup is the general "what the heck is FW doing" which seems to be changing to the specialist game market and has more chance for more resources to be allocated to those games than to the resin side of FW for 40K/AoS
I've just sent an email for the suggestion of Freebooters in White Dwarf.
Considering conversions are easy with plasticard and ork components from Aeronautica, its asking little compared to "please sir, may we have our xenos now?"
Also requested they +1 the bolt cannon on the Castigator, while increasing the point value by 10 and reduce the attack dice to 6. I informed them that we're mostly interested in the kit for the Acheron alone.
Who knows, but all I know is that if we don't ask, we don't get. Lets hope so.
Overread wrote: Orks have a huge range of Titans, meanwhile forces ilke Eldar and Tyranids can easily have new titans added. The only reason we don't have more of them is because those respective ranges didn't start in the original Titan Legions game and when they did arrive in Epic/Epic40K etc... those games didn't last long before they died off. So there just wasn't time to take their ranges further.
Pedant alert - I must correct you on how long Eldar Titans have been out. The original Eldar phantom titan debuted in White Dwarf 110 - a month after the release of the original Adeptus Titanicus boxed game in 1988. Warlock titans were added around 1991/92 with the release of the Space Marine 2nd edition Renegades Supplement. White Dwarf 186 showed the Eldar Renevent Scout Titans. White Dwarf 189 showed the Tyranid Bio-Titans. That was some 25-30 years ago. They were around a really long time. We've had two variants of Phantom Titan in Epic, 1 Warlock and 3 different types of Revenants including the infamous piston variant. And that's not including the 40k scale titans from Forgeworld.
gorgon wrote: Well, I wouldn't expect pseudo-Epic, and I don't know why xenos would have to be structured differently in terms of force composition either.
It could still be 3-5 Titans, but with Phantoms-Revenants-Wraithknights or Great Gargants-Gargants-Stompas, etc. instead of the Imperial makes/size classes.
But orks don't fight in gargant whaags, ork battles don't consist of a handful of gargants or stompas and nothing else. Granted titans rarely fight "alone" but they're far more independent and the structure is there on both sides of the game, I don't think eldar and orks would make sense in the same way. Some of the worse balance abuse in battlefleet gothic came from them having too many factions and out there mechanics instead of sticking closer to the core mechanics like imperial and chaos fleets. Wanting them to make a model is just not the same as making a game better imo, again if they're restarting epic it seems more viable, but I really doubt they'd just move AT forward 10 thousand years just to add xenos factions in a game named after titans.
There was an armylist for Epic in which players could deploy a Gargant mob. The Eldar Titans were also organized in separate clans, this might not be retconned though since Titans are now often painted in Craftworld colours.
Also requested they +1 the bolt cannon on the Castigator, while increasing the point value by 10 and reduce the attack dice to 6. I informed them that we're mostly interested in the kit for the Acheron alone.
Both guns have incorrect Strength and range value, correct range should be 12" long range for each. Castigator cannon also do more shot, or same shot with re-roll 1.
Malika2 wrote: There was an armylist for Epic in which players could deploy a Gargant mob. The Eldar Titans were also organized in separate clans, this might not be retconned though since Titans are now often painted in Craftworld colours.
I understand, but they're not independent, divided into clan with their own support fleet and sent off to do very organized, separate, whaaaging. Legions rarely operate alone, but are pretty much designed to like space marines, with their own attendant fleets and support staff, it's honestly what makes the game work, both loyalist and traitor still more or less operate similiarly, fly around in big ships with robots and make planetfall where necessary.
Epic only works because it's not hyper focussed on one aspect but total war in the 40k universe, AT really is more specific to conflicts where both sides wielded titans.
I just don't see it, and worry if they do go that route. This is the same company that won't re-release the acastus command terminal, but have continued selling it in packs of 5, even though the most you can field is one, with full errors. I feel like if they expand into xenos, you'll only see more of those issues.
Crablezworth wrote: This is the same company that won't re-release the acastus command terminal, but have continued selling it in packs of 5, even though the most you can field is one, with full errors.
For legio forces, yes. However, One can have a banner of Acastus for every lance in the household.
Crablezworth wrote: This is the same company that won't re-release the acastus command terminal, but have continued selling it in packs of 5, even though the most you can field is one, with full errors.
For legio forces, yes. However, One can have a banner of Acastus for every lance in the household.
Guess they get to have up to 5 terminals with errors
Crablezworth wrote: This is the same company that won't re-release the acastus command terminal, but have continued selling it in packs of 5, even though the most you can field is one, with full errors.
For legio forces, yes. However, One can have a banner of Acastus for every lance in the household.
Err, no? Auxiliary Banners are one per maniple or lance, if you play bigger games or run multiple light maniples you can have multiple banners of Acastii as well.
Yeah but the multiple maniple thing has taken on a whole new dimension with custom legio rules from ryza, it's not so much multiple maniples being the prob, it's that they can be different legios that makes things a bit nuts with ryza, in addition to running 4 total acastus/asterius
Crablezworth wrote: Yeah but the multiple maniple thing has taken on a whole new dimension with custom legio rules from ryza, it's not so much multiple maniples being the prob, it's that they can be different legios that makes things a bit nuts with ryza, in addition to running 4 total acastus/asterius
Not sure I follow. How is running multiple legios any different than it has been from the very beginning? Mostly you're weakening your ability to focus and giving the other side stratagem points unless the game is over 3k points or something and you really need that flexibility for a specific plan. Also, how does that relate to the Acastii in any way?
Err, no? Auxiliary Banners are one per maniple or lance, if you play bigger games or run multiple light maniples you can have multiple banners of Acastii as well.
Y'know, I've totally overlooked that small detail. I had the assumption it was one auxilary banner per titan battleforce.
Errata: Goodness gracious! I swear to you all that I'm not drunk! I'm just writting complete gibberish today...
Crablezworth wrote: Yeah but the multiple maniple thing has taken on a whole new dimension with custom legio rules from ryza, it's not so much multiple maniples being the prob, it's that they can be different legios that makes things a bit nuts with ryza, in addition to running 4 total acastus/asterius
Not sure I follow. How is running multiple legios any different than it has been from the very beginning? Mostly you're weakening your ability to focus and giving the other side stratagem points unless the game is over 3k points or something and you really need that flexibility for a specific plan. Also, how does that relate to the Acastii in any way?
You can maximize both legios's maniples to an insane degree given the wargear and traits and still take 4 acastus, something that's already game breaking.
That sounds more like an Acastus problem than anything else though. Taking 4 Knights of any type shouldn't be game-breaking no matter what the force organisation rules might be.
JWBS wrote: That sounds more like an Acastus problem than anything else though. Taking 4 Knights of any type shouldn't be game-breaking no matter what the force organisation rules might be.
It's both that the acastus is under costed and given their rarity it shouldn't be possible to see 4 together.
I think it would be kind of a shame though in a game where you can stick 2 Warlords and multiple Reavers and Warhounds on the table if you couldn't manage to include 4 of a certain type of Knight in there, whether they be canonically rare or not.
Jeezo some of you lot really won't be satisfied until Knights really are just speedbumps eh.
If you're still having problems with Acastus even after the nerfing they got - which could be dealt with fine even before that with a modicum of tactics provided you weren't playing on Planet Bowling Ball - perhaps it's time to examine your strategy for any sign of PEBKAC rather than continuing to insist the game is the problem.
Crablezworth wrote: Yeah but the multiple maniple thing has taken on a whole new dimension with custom legio rules from ryza, it's not so much multiple maniples being the prob, it's that they can be different legios that makes things a bit nuts with ryza, in addition to running 4 total acastus/asterius
Not sure I follow. How is running multiple legios any different than it has been from the very beginning? Mostly you're weakening your ability to focus and giving the other side stratagem points unless the game is over 3k points or something and you really need that flexibility for a specific plan. Also, how does that relate to the Acastii in any way?
You can maximize both legios's maniples to an insane degree given the wargear and traits and still take 4 acastus, something that's already game breaking.
Those are completely separate things, I don't get why you brought the legios up in this instance. Ryza legios also aren't that wacky. Of course you can focus more on any single aspect of the game with them, but not to any degree I'd call insane.
Yodhrin wrote: Jeezo some of you lot really won't be satisfied until Knights really are just speedbumps eh.
If you're still having problems with Acastus even after the nerfing they got - which could be dealt with fine even before that with a modicum of tactics provided you weren't playing on Planet Bowling Ball - perhaps it's time to examine your strategy for any sign of PEBKAC rather than continuing to insist the game is the problem.
LOL, where were you yesterday when I needed you!
For the record Yodhrin I'm actually happy with the Acastus since the FAQ nerf. Just hate the auxiliary banner rule which prevents me from ordering more of them.
Yodhrin wrote: Jeezo some of you lot really won't be satisfied until Knights really are just speedbumps eh.
If you're still having problems with Acastus even after the nerfing they got - which could be dealt with fine even before that with a modicum of tactics provided you weren't playing on Planet Bowling Ball - perhaps it's time to examine your strategy for any sign of PEBKAC rather than continuing to insist the game is the problem.
LOL, where were you yesterday when I needed you!
For the record Yodhrin I'm actually happy with the Acastus since the FAQ nerf. Just hate the auxiliary banner rule which prevents me from ordering more of them.
Is what's he's said even correct though? He's pretty much the only person I've ever seen saying they're "just fine" before nerfs. He's been called out on it several times in this thread, I've even seen people accuse him of not having played against them since his comments on pre-nerf Acastus are so bizarrely out of synch with almost everyone else that plays the game (literally everyone else in my case - I've honestly never seen anyone, other than Yohdrin, say that pre-nerf Acastus are remotely acceptable, and if I have to choose between him being a genius above all others in the field of plastic replica Titan warfare, or just outlandishly erroneous in his proclamations, I have to choose the latter).
Yes and I was one of them to call them out, which I'm surprised you don't recall. I was also the first one in this very topic to identify that the Acastus had a serious problem. And I even put them to the test.
And the fact is that I identified it as a points and banner size problem and GW agreed because that was the exact action they took against the unit in the FAQ.
In the games I was playing pre-FAQ the Legio would always get wiped out as the points imbalance meant the Household could afford to add a Warhound to its force, because the Porphrions were "buy-one-get-one-free". Post FAQ that Warhound is gone and the Legio now wins as many games as it loses.
Last year I did not agree with Yodhrin, but the results speak for themselves and now agree with them. And its not just my games - even in the recent WD battlereport, the Loyalists with the only Porphyrions in the game was utterly wiped out. A single Warlord dealt with them because the player - by their own admission - was careless.
This post is not mean't in any provocative way, and hope we can keep this discussion healthy.
I'm referring specifically to the claim that pre-nerf Acastus were okay, something that he apparently still believes, and you apparently don't, but idk. I'd also argue that the change to the numbers of Acastus allowable was not implemented because it was the 'right' nerf, but because it was the easiest nerf (it was basically a veto on Acastus first adopted by TOs, since they can't reasonably be expected to modify points or profiles, and then reasonably be expected to diffuse this info throughout the community w/o friction). I'd argue that this nerf was embraced by the AT team due to laziness because, frankly, it's a massively anti-fun change that makes no sense for players or even when considering fluff (Three Warlord titans, Avatars incarnate of the Omnissiah in your army? Sure. No problem. Four ACASTUS KNIGHTS you say? Are you insane man? Absolutely not!). The Acastus limit sucks, personally I don't think this can be reasonably argued. It only exists, after all, because they cocked up the balance on them.
JWBS wrote: I'm referring specifically to the claim that pre-nerf Acastus were okay, something that he apparently still believes, and you apparently don't, but idk. I'd also argue that the change to the numbers of Acastus allowable was not implemented because it was the 'right' nerf, but because it was the easiest nerf (it was basically a veto on Acastus first adopted by TOs, since they can't reasonably be expected to modify points or profiles, and then reasonably be expected to diffuse this info throughout the community w/o friction). I'd argue that this nerf was embraced by the AT team due to laziness because, frankly, it's a massively anti-fun change that makes no sense for players or even when considering fluff (Three Warlord titans, Avatars incarnate of the Omnissiah in your army? Sure. No problem. Four ACASTUS KNIGHTS you say? Are you insane man? Absolutely not!). The Acastus limit sucks, personally I don't think this can be reasonably argued. It only exists, after all, because they cocked up the balance on them.
It would have been a much nicer change to simply drop blast from the weapons instead of hard cap numbers allowed.
The Acastus weapons stat are completely garbage made up and does not scale accordingly to the HH/8th ed rule. Range is too long, missile pod had more range, is stronger and does more shot than intended, blast is not big enough to be considered a blast weapon in AT.
Chopstick wrote: The Acastus weapons stat are completely garbage made up and does not scale accordingly to the HH/8th ed rule. Range is too long, missile pod had more range, is stronger and does more shot than intended, blast is not big enough to be considered a blast weapon in AT.
Agreed, it's 40k version is nowhere near as powerful as the AT version. They're basically just really big lascannons.
Crablezworth wrote: Yeah but the multiple maniple thing has taken on a whole new dimension with custom legio rules from ryza, it's not so much multiple maniples being the prob, it's that they can be different legios that makes things a bit nuts with ryza, in addition to running 4 total acastus/asterius
Not sure I follow. How is running multiple legios any different than it has been from the very beginning? Mostly you're weakening your ability to focus and giving the other side stratagem points unless the game is over 3k points or something and you really need that flexibility for a specific plan. Also, how does that relate to the Acastii in any way?
You can maximize both legios's maniples to an insane degree given the wargear and traits and still take 4 acastus, something that's already game breaking.
Those are completely separate things, I don't get why you brought the legios up in this instance. Ryza legios also aren't that wacky. Of course you can focus more on any single aspect of the game with them, but not to any degree I'd call insane.
Because you can do both, create 2 custom legios, one for each maniple, in addition to running 4 acastus.
Back to the styrix, disappointed that voidbraker isn't per shot but per weapon, so volkite doesn't seem that great. The siege claw though is interesting because it's 2 attacks per claw, so I could see trying dual claw. Graviton doesn't seem worth it.
zedmeister wrote: Voidbreaker applies for each time the weapon hits?
Each volkite that causes at least a hit causes one additional hit. I thought it was per shot initially. The styrix can take two volkites, still seems sorta meh.
You get 4 shots so each of those that hit gets and additional voidbreaker hit. Not too shabby. They’ll not do anywhere near as much work on unshielded targets though
zedmeister wrote: You get 4 shots so each of those that hit gets and additional voidbreaker hit. Not too shabby. They’ll not do anywhere near as much work on unshielded targets though
It's conditional on if the weapon hits, it's not per hit. If the weapon hits, voidbraker adds x hits.
JWBS wrote: I'm referring specifically to the claim that pre-nerf Acastus were okay, something that he apparently still believes, and you apparently don't, but idk. I'd also argue that the change to the numbers of Acastus allowable was not implemented because it was the 'right' nerf, but because it was the easiest nerf (it was basically a veto on Acastus first adopted by TOs, since they can't reasonably be expected to modify points or profiles, and then reasonably be expected to diffuse this info throughout the community w/o friction). I'd argue that this nerf was embraced by the AT team due to laziness because, frankly, it's a massively anti-fun change that makes no sense for players or even when considering fluff (Three Warlord titans, Avatars incarnate of the Omnissiah in your army? Sure. No problem. Four ACASTUS KNIGHTS you say? Are you insane man? Absolutely not!). The Acastus limit sucks, personally I don't think this can be reasonably argued. It only exists, after all, because they cocked up the balance on them.
The banner size needs further elaboration. This was a much larger knight than the Cerastus or Questoris, packing considerable firepower and armour. So much so that the Warhound was a closer comparison. Consider the following...
...notice that the maximum is double the minimum for the Questoris and Cerastus, and I'm sure those whom have the new resin knight will confirm that the Mechanicum knights are also in banners of 2-4 knights. Given that the Acastus is the apex knight and almost as tanky as the Warhound, a banner of 1-2 makes more sense. The weapons on the Acastus need little help from the coordinated strike order, and even just two knights will provide a bonus of +2 strength and a total of 14 structure points. Speak of the devil, lets take a look at the total structure points with maximum knights pre-FAQ...
...while the drop in structure points is greater with the Acastus at the new post-FAQ maximum of 14 structure points, the Questoris and Cerastus share the same toughness chart( direct, devastating & critical )while the Acastus has higher values. I would compare with the Mechanicum knights once again, but sadly do not have their terminal to compare and know little of its details.
My point is this; the three main knights get smaller in banner size the higher their scale goes, and being larger have access to more powerful weaponary and enjoy higher structure points. The smaller knights need a larger banner size as they rely more on the coordinated strike order to beef up the strength of their weaker weapons, so that they can damage the void shields and structure of a titan...
...and clearly the Acastus needs no help on the firepower front if it can cause harm to even a Warlord with just a single knight!
So being fair to the design team, they were fixing the banner size to properly scale the Acastus, which was probably a case of the printer's being sent an outdated photoshop file. Looking into the crystal ball, I'd say that the Armiger( if released ) will be in a banner of 4-8 knights, and with even weaker weapons than the Questoris.
The range and the 360 arc is also a pretty nasty combination, and it's secondary weapon is barrage so not a lot of hiding from them given the 360 arc like a reaver's carapace.
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zedmeister wrote: Not how I read it. I read it for each hit, in a similar way to the rapid trait
Word for word "If a voidbraker WEAPON hits a target with active void shields, the target's controlling player must make a number of additional saves as shown by the number in brackets after the trait." in this case (1) so what it says is provided a weapon with the voidbraker trait hits at least once, it causes 1 additional save if the void shields are active. It's not per shot, but you're required to hit at least once against a target with active void shields to cause 1 more save. Now that's per weapon, so two volkites would each benefit once provided each one hit at least once againt active voidshields,
Hey at least dual claw on either one seems cool, lots of attacks.
I'm wondering how the atropos will work, can't see there being more than 2 in a banner, figuerd it be just one due to rarity. Given it's weapon may have the vortex trait.
Word for word "If a voidbraker WEAPON hits a target with active void shields, the target's controlling player must make a number of additional saves as shown by the number in brackets after the trait." in this case (1) so what it says is provided a weapon with the voidbraker trait hits at least once, it causes 1 additional save if the void shields are active. It's not per shot, but you're required to hit at least once against a target with active void shields to cause 1 more save. Now that's per weapon, so two volkites would each benefit once provided each one hit at least once againt active voidshields,
See, I read that the other way. With four shots, if you hit twice, that weapon has hit twice triggering the effect twice. The community article also hints towards it as well:
These have the Voidbreaker (1) trait, meaning that enemy Titans must take an additional shield save every time this weapon hits
Also, having the Volkite weapon cause damage per additional hit fits in with how it works in 30k.
I'm wondering how the atropos will work, can't see there being more than 2 in a banner, figuerd it be just one due to rarity. Given it's weapon may have the vortex trait.
Never had the pleasure and ain't got a clue about this chap. What does he do when he's at home, then?
But orks don't fight in gargant whaags, ork battles don't consist of a handful of gargants or stompas and nothing else.
No, they don't. But there's nothing that says that the ork mobz on the battlefield can't be armed largely with bolters, and thus completely unable to hurt the titans and knights that are battling the gargants. And if they can't influence the battle, then there's no need to include them.
IIRC (it's been a while since I saw it), there are one or two mentions of ground troops on the battlefield in the middle of a game of AT. Either the description of one of the strategic asset markers, or one of the strategy cards I believe makes mention of ground troops. So troops can be on the ground. But only the heavy weapon units are going to have anything strong enough to annoy a titan.
As for Epic -
I would recommend not even thinking about it until we start to see super-heavy tanks. Something like a Shadowsword that's got a weapon powerful enough to hurt a titan could be added to the game easily, and will probably appear before any full-scale - or even psuedo - Epic release.
If and when Eldar get a release, I hope at least one model retains the centauroid configuration that we saw in the old Bright Stallion Eldar knight.
I'm wondering how the atropos will work, can't see there being more than 2 in a banner, figuerd it be just one due to rarity. Given it's weapon may have the vortex trait.
Never had the pleasure and ain't got a clue about this chap. What does he do when he's at home, then?
Left arm is a graviton singularity cannon and a good candidate for a vortex weapon (with extremely short range) in AT Right arm is a lascutter; it’s actually a melee weapon of considerable potency, basically an industrial cutting laser of the sort the Mechanicus uses to manufacture knights and Titans in the first place, but on a combat chassis.
Both weapons have variable yield but AT abstracts a lot of that. Not sure how it would shake out but overall it should be quite capable of mincing other Knights but very restricted in range. Which of course is compensated for by the Cerastus class chassis.
Word for word "If a voidbraker WEAPON hits a target with active void shields, the target's controlling player must make a number of additional saves as shown by the number in brackets after the trait." in this case (1) so what it says is provided a weapon with the voidbraker trait hits at least once, it causes 1 additional save if the void shields are active. It's not per shot, but you're required to hit at least once against a target with active void shields to cause 1 more save. Now that's per weapon, so two volkites would each benefit once provided each one hit at least once againt active voidshields,
See, I read that the other way. With four shots, if you hit twice, that weapon has hit twice triggering the effect twice. The community article also hints towards it as well:
These have the Voidbreaker (1) trait, meaning that enemy Titans must take an additional shield save every time this weapon hits
Also, having the Volkite weapon cause damage per additional hit fits in with how it works in 30k.
RAW it's 1 additional save if you hit, not per hit.
"These have the Voidbreaker (1) trait, meaning that enemy Titans must take an additional shield save every time this weapon hits" Meaning exactly that, if the weapon causes a hit, the titan must make one additional save. It's not indicating per hit, merely that you must cause a hit to benefit from the enemy having to take 1 additonal save. It's entirely possible we see voidbraker weapons where's voidbraker 2 or voidbraker 3. X indicated if anthing even further that it doesn't function like rapid.
Rule as intended it's possible they meant per shot, rules as written it doesn't say that.
The fluff was they're very rare and used often to combat specifically xenos. In 30k it basically can leave a 5 inch blast that ends up moving around, so hoping it gets vortex.
RAW it's 1 additional save if you hit, not per hit.
"These have the Voidbreaker (1) trait, meaning that enemy Titans must take an additional shield save every time this weapon hits" Meaning exactly that, if the weapon causes a hit, the titan must make one additional save. It's not indicating per hit, merely that you must cause a hit to benefit from the enemy having to take 1 additonal save. It's entirely possible we see voidbraker weapons where's voidbraker 2 or voidbraker 3. X indicated if anthing even further that it doesn't function like rapid.
Again, I see it the other way. Every weapon hit triggers the effect as in every succesfull hit. I'm tempted to e-mail the Forgeworld lads, see if I get a response...
SamusDrake wrote: Gotta say its a shame we didn't get a boxset this Christmas. Maybe something new in January?
Engine Kill is due this week coming, so if there is anything in the pipeline we'd likely see it then.
Knowing our luck it'll be to inform us of an amazing feature of the game we've been overlooking all this time....
"ENGINE KILL! GAIN THE INITIATIVE! Did you know you can roll off to see who gets to go first? Grab your dice everybody cause today we are looking at how to roll those D10s to victory!"
But orks don't fight in gargant whaags, ork battles don't consist of a handful of gargants or stompas and nothing else.
No, they don't. But there's nothing that says that the ork mobz on the battlefield can't be armed largely with bolters, and thus completely unable to hurt the titans and knights that are battling the gargants. And if they can't influence the battle, then there's no need to include them.
IIRC (it's been a while since I saw it), there are one or two mentions of ground troops on the battlefield in the middle of a game of AT. Either the description of one of the strategic asset markers, or one of the strategy cards I believe makes mention of ground troops. So troops can be on the ground. But only the heavy weapon units are going to have anything strong enough to annoy a titan.
Right. And let's not forget that the background is imaginary and constantly mutating to fit their business needs. It's always been that way and always will be.
RAW it's 1 additional save if you hit, not per hit.
"These have the Voidbreaker (1) trait, meaning that enemy Titans must take an additional shield save every time this weapon hits" Meaning exactly that, if the weapon causes a hit, the titan must make one additional save. It's not indicating per hit, merely that you must cause a hit to benefit from the enemy having to take 1 additonal save. It's entirely possible we see voidbraker weapons where's voidbraker 2 or voidbraker 3. X indicated if anthing even further that it doesn't function like rapid.
Again, I see it the other way. Every weapon hit triggers the effect as in every succesfull hit. I'm tempted to e-mail the Forgeworld lads, see if I get a response...
You would simply be wrong. Rulebook page 39: "If a Voidbreaker weapon hits a target with active void shields, [...] a number of additonal saves as shown in brackets after the trait." It does not say "For each hit" like Rapid does, as an example. The same is said in Quake, Concussive and so on. Knights attack with a one combined weapon at a time, so until errata'd the whole Banner gets +1 out of their Voidbreaker shots. Not too impressive, really.
Sherrypie wrote: You would simply be wrong. Rulebook page 39: "If a Voidbreaker weapon hits a target with active void shields, [...] a number of additonal saves as shown in brackets after the trait." It does not say "For each hit" like Rapid does, as an example. The same is said in Quake, Concussive and so on. Knights attack with a one combined weapon at a time, so until errata'd the whole Banner gets +1 out of their Voidbreaker shots. Not too impressive, really.
I've stuck in a query so who knows if I get a response or not.
As you explain it, it makes the Styrix seem a bit shabby. Not sure why they didn't just go with rapid instead to bring them inline with how Volkites work in 30K (i.e. hits giving additional hits). A full banner would, on average with a 4+ BS would get 6+1 hits. Nice models, crap rules. Perhaps they're being cautious with the Knights after the Acastus debacle...
Still, nice models regardless of rules, and I'll have at most a banner of each with my Makabius lads.
Sherrypie wrote: You would simply be wrong. Rulebook page 39: "If a Voidbreaker weapon hits a target with active void shields, [...] a number of additonal saves as shown in brackets after the trait." It does not say "For each hit" like Rapid does, as an example. The same is said in Quake, Concussive and so on. Knights attack with a one combined weapon at a time, so until errata'd the whole Banner gets +1 out of their Voidbreaker shots. Not too impressive, really.
I've stuck in a query so who knows if I get a response or not.
As you explain it, it makes the Styrix seem a bit shabby. Not sure why they didn't just go with rapid instead to bring them inline with how Volkites work in 30K (i.e. hits giving additional hits). A full banner would, on average with a 4+ BS would get 6+1 hits. Nice models, crap rules. Perhaps they're being cautious with the Knights after the Acastus debacle...
Still, nice models regardless of rules, and I'll have at most a banner of each with my Makabius lads.
Yeah, the Acastus most likely hangs above them for some time as a reminder that certain conservatism is required with writing new units. I feel the current situation to be a misreading on the designers' part, where the thought was indeed per hit while the writing isn't. My expectation would have been a Voidbreaker X, where X is the number of said arms in the Banner, which could be an easy FAQ ruling to make them actually worthwhile additions to lists.
RAW it's 1 additional save if you hit, not per hit.
"These have the Voidbreaker (1) trait, meaning that enemy Titans must take an additional shield save every time this weapon hits" Meaning exactly that, if the weapon causes a hit, the titan must make one additional save. It's not indicating per hit, merely that you must cause a hit to benefit from the enemy having to take 1 additonal save. It's entirely possible we see voidbraker weapons where's voidbraker 2 or voidbraker 3. X indicated if anthing even further that it doesn't function like rapid.
Again, I see it the other way. Every weapon hit triggers the effect as in every succesfull hit. I'm tempted to e-mail the Forgeworld lads, see if I get a response...
You would simply be wrong. Rulebook page 39: "If a Voidbreaker weapon hits a target with active void shields, [...] a number of additonal saves as shown in brackets after the trait." It does not say "For each hit" like Rapid does, as an example. The same is said in Quake, Concussive and so on. Knights attack with a one combined weapon at a time, so until errata'd the whole Banner gets +1 out of their Voidbreaker shots. Not too impressive, really.
So it's even worse than thought, dang. Guess it's all about them claws.
Sherrypie wrote: You would simply be wrong. Rulebook page 39: "If a Voidbreaker weapon hits a target with active void shields, [...] a number of additonal saves as shown in brackets after the trait." It does not say "For each hit" like Rapid does, as an example. The same is said in Quake, Concussive and so on. Knights attack with a one combined weapon at a time, so until errata'd the whole Banner gets +1 out of their Voidbreaker shots. Not too impressive, really.
I've stuck in a query so who knows if I get a response or not.
As you explain it, it makes the Styrix seem a bit shabby. Not sure why they didn't just go with rapid instead to bring them inline with how Volkites work in 30K (i.e. hits giving additional hits). A full banner would, on average with a 4+ BS would get 6+1 hits. Nice models, crap rules. Perhaps they're being cautious with the Knights after the Acastus debacle...
Still, nice models regardless of rules, and I'll have at most a banner of each with my Makabius lads.
On the plus side, there's now a 140pt all cc option if you do 4 claws. The rending and amount of attacks is decent. Also nice to regen on 6's in the damage control phase. Might fit better into some lists than lancers.
Yeah, the option for claws is an interesting one. 4 attacks per knight and one heck of a Charge isn't the worst deal if you can also run a couple of surprise Gravs in their midst to mess with your opponent's positioning for long range units to exploit. The Gravs might still be mostly for funsies, they don't really need them except to auto-Shake other knights due to Concussive.
Sherrypie wrote: Yeah, the option for claws is an interesting one. 4 attacks per knight and one heck of a Charge isn't the worst deal if you can also run a couple of surprise Gravs in their midst to mess with your opponent's positioning for long range units to exploit. The Gravs might still be mostly for funsies, they don't really need them except to auto-Shake other knights due to Concussive.
The gravs I'm not sold on, my fear is rotating the enemy titan and losing side or rear arc or worse potentially bringing their fron arc to bear and making it so they can hit back in their activation. I like the pushing result that can cause a titan collide with stuff but it's hard to guarantee.
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zedmeister wrote: Don’t forget they also get to reduce the strength of incoming blast weapons as well so you can avoid a complete toasting from plasma blastguns...
Yeah, my hope would be with a 2 knight banner to just hide them as much as possible.
I can't explain how much they messed up the gun on that thing, a damn shame. The lascutter seems underwhelming, they describe it like cutting legs off of titans. Disappointed.
"A Strength of 6 and 3” Blast means units of smaller foes will be torn apart, and not even the thick armour of Battle Titans will be proof against such force."
Ahhahaa, in what universe Right, that is just hilarious. I don't doubt the gun can actually do things, Str 6 can do work in numbers and so on, but to say it's something impressive in a couple of Blasts is just pure marketing spiel. For some reason these bits always seem to think low strength shots are effective against Knights.
The cutter on the other hand can be pretty nice, because that actually can be massed and the d10 does hurt. When you're looking at results of 11 on the average and more when your nippy Knights are positioned to someone's sides, piling on those attacks will kill Titans.
Sherrypie wrote: "A Strength of 6 and 3” Blast means units of smaller foes will be torn apart, and not even the thick armour of Battle Titans will be proof against such force."
Ahhahaa, in what universe Right, that is just hilarious. I don't doubt the gun can actually do things, Str 6 can do work in numbers and so on, but to say it's something impressive in a couple of Blasts is just pure marketing spiel. For some reason these bits always seem to think low strength shots are effective against Knights.
The cutter on the other hand can be pretty nice, because that actually can be massed and the d10 does hurt. When you're looking at results of 11 on the average and more when your nippy Knights are positioned to someone's sides, piling on those attacks will kill Titans.
I just can't believe they forgot they wrote rules in the core rulebook for vortex and then didn't use them. This thing should have been an incredibly rare deadly killer and instead its a likely over costed joke. Was reading fluff of one of them cutting the leg out from one titan to have it fall into the other, doesn't seem remotely possible with these rules.
Yeah, the Lascutter does seem to be the star of the show. The Gavition Singularity Cannon would be just right.... against squadrons of Baneblades and Land Raiders.
Sherrypie wrote: The cutter on the other hand can be pretty nice, because that actually can be massed and the d10 does hurt. When you're looking at results of 11 on the average and more when your nippy Knights are positioned to someone's sides, piling on those attacks will kill Titans.
Lasutter is definitely a nasty piece of work. Having a bunch of them carve up a reaver in the rear and then slapping it about with the graviton cannon. They'll definitely make a nuisance of themselves
Also these don't seem to come with the crotch banner, come on, even the plastic one on a tiny sprue had them, what's the excuse for the resin kit? Too lazy? Too incompetent?
Chopstick wrote: Also these don't seem to come with the crotch banner, come on, even the plastic one on a tiny sprue had them, what's the excuse for the resin kit? Too lazy? Too incompetent?
Just checked crucible of retribution and the artwork shows the thigh armour too just like the 30k/40k model.
Another addition to Adeptus Knightanicus that I'll gladly ignore. Good news is that we only have Dominus and and Asterius to go now before the Knight well runs dry and they're forced to make something new for a new release.
JWBS wrote: Good news is that we only have Dominus and and Asterius to go now before the Knight well runs dry and they're forced to make something new for a new release.
Ya true, which reminds me I probably should paint my asterius conversion.
Chopstick wrote: There're knight preceptor and chaos knights also.
Well if the preceptor has the same weapon as the atrapos I can see it being sorta hit and miss. Chaos knights sound awesome, but honestly hope they get their own plastic, which sadly is not likely. Probably just resin kits or upgrade kits.
It's not the same weapon, Preceptor las impulsor is a gun, not a melee weapon. Atrapos lascutter is a welding tool, las impulsor is more of a laser shotgun.
Chopstick wrote: It's not the same weapon, Preceptor las impulsor is a gun, not a melee weapon. Atrapos lascutter is a welding tool, las impulsor is more of a laser shotgun.
pancakeonions wrote: So I follow this thread passively... It's sometimes cool to see where AT is going.
But I'm not that keen on these models.
Have they ever, since released, teased/hinted at/winked/raised their eyebrows at the possibility of releasing Xenos titans?
I'd buy Eldar in a heartbeat if they introduced them to this game. I'd even consider Ork!
(but I think they never will. Am I wrong???)
One can hope, I mean, the eldar titans do exist as models...but I'd be much more inclined to believe GW would first do the various space marine/admech superheavy vehicles than the ready-to-go xenos titans, because GW is allergic to xenos.
Imperials on imperials every game all day babyyyyyyyyy
Another FW release so the next GW titan should be with us shortly...
At this rate I don't want another titan, they'll just mess it up. It really feels like whoever wrote the rules for these don't play the game.
Quite surprised you would feel that way. Has the Warbringer upset that balance in the titan roster, do you think?
I dunno, I find warlords too unwieldly most of the time, so warbringer has certainly become my preference over warlord. Rapier sounds cool but warhound is about as light a titan as I want, unless it's just the same as a warhound with lighter armour/faster movement. Something conceiveable between warhound and reaver but I dunno.
To be honest, we're not going to see another Titan release until at least the next book so January at the earliest. The next Engine Kill will probably have a teaser.
These knights are to fill the gaps. Shame they haven't done some of the more esoteric Titan Weapons or even just a Reaver Carapace Plasma Blastgun for example or the Saturnyne Lascutter for the Warlord
I dunno, I find warlords too unwieldly most of the time, so warbringer has certainly become my preference over warlord. Rapier sounds cool but warhound is about as light a titan as I want, unless it's just the same as a warhound with lighter armour/faster movement. Something conceiveable between warhound and reaver but I dunno.
Thats a good point as the Warhound and Acastus make up that fine line between titan and knight. As the Acastus provides firepower to rival a titan, maybe the Rapier is the titan's answer to the speedy-melee advantage of the knights?
A titan between the hound and reaver would be ideal. The reaver and hounds are our preferred titans but we'd like another option. If such a titan is released and uses weapons from either the Warhound or Reaver, we'll be pleased.
Glad to hear you have taken a shine to the Warbringer. Its point value is still steep( for a low point game ) but its stats do look good. Was hoping its price would have been inbetween the Reaver and Warlord, but sadly not to be. Still, its one we keep in mind just incase...
SamusDrake wrote: As the Acastus provides firepower to rival a titan, maybe the Rapier is the titan's answer to the speedy-melee advantage of the knights?
That would fit in with the rumour the Raiper is supposed to represent the uncorrupted Questor and Subjugator Slaanesh Scout Titans. A pair of powerclaws would do some work:
zedmeister wrote: To be honest, we're not going to see another Titan release until at least the next book so January at the earliest. The next Engine Kill will probably have a teaser.
These knights are to fill the gaps. Shame they haven't done some of the more esoteric Titan Weapons or even just a Reaver Carapace Plasma Blastgun for example or the Saturnyne Lascutter for the Warlord
We could see a new warbringer anytime seeing as they've shown it with other arm weapons.
SamusDrake wrote: As the Acastus provides firepower to rival a titan, maybe the Rapier is the titan's answer to the speedy-melee advantage of the knights?
That would fit in with the rumour the Raiper is supposed to represent the uncorrupted Questor and Subjugator Slaanesh Scout Titans. A pair of powerclaws would do some work:
Yeah if it was cc for arms and center gun it'd be cool. In terms of reactor and shield track, it'd have to be the same as warhound or risk being too light imo.
I dunno, I find warlords too unwieldly most of the time, so warbringer has certainly become my preference over warlord. Rapier sounds cool but warhound is about as light a titan as I want, unless it's just the same as a warhound with lighter armour/faster movement. Something conceiveable between warhound and reaver but I dunno.
Thats a good point as the Warhound and Acastus make up that fine line between titan and knight. As the Acastus provides firepower to rival a titan, maybe the Rapier is the titan's answer to the speedy-melee advantage of the knights?
A titan between the hound and reaver would be ideal. The reaver and hounds are our preferred titans but we'd like another option. If such a titan is released and uses weapons from either the Warhound or Reaver, we'll be pleased.
Glad to hear you have taken a shine to the Warbringer. Its point value is still steep( for a low point game ) but its stats do look good. Was hoping its price would have been inbetween the Reaver and Warlord, but sadly not to be. Still, its one we keep in mind just incase...
I've liked the warbringer more since upgrading the top to belicossa volcano cannon.
SamusDrake wrote: As the Acastus provides firepower to rival a titan, maybe the Rapier is the titan's answer to the speedy-melee advantage of the knights?
That would fit in with the rumour the Raiper is supposed to represent the uncorrupted Questor and Subjugator Slaanesh Scout Titans. A pair of powerclaws would do some work:
A power-clawed Scout Titan would be wonderful for my Audax. Not sure that we're going to get that, but I'd absolutely love it and my opponents would probably...not.
That it then, the last of the Forge World knights. Only things that remain from the Imperial Knights book are the Questoris Preceptor and the two Dominus class.
Not sure the preceptor will see the light of day since it’s literally an Errant but with a worse gun and a special rule for buffing Warmigers, which also aren’t appearing.
So maybe just the Dominus as a plastic kit, with one of each class and we can finally get to some new Titans?
There're still no melee focused Titan in the game. There're easy spot for new Titans, just not much.
Design wise the whole line is outdated as Titans carry less guns than tiny Imperium vehicle. That's why Imperial Knight can outgun Titans so easily, because they're not outdated.
schoon wrote: I'm beginning to wonder if there's a creative reason for no other Titan designs out (and a preponderance of Knights).
After all, a new Titan design is something their creative team would want to get right. Perhaps it's caught up in revisions and approvals...
My guess is the general state of 2020 combined with the Indomitus release probably played hell with the production schedule. I reckon they've got 1-2 designs either laid down in tooling or on the drawing board, but are stuck in a queue somewhere.
Release for this game had been slow since 2019 (AI release) and had nothing to do with 2020. They showed plastic upgrade sprue for Questoris and in interview said plastic acheron and castigator was done but release the questoris upgrade 6 months later, and Cerastus knight in 2020.
AI eat all the manpower and resource needed for AT, and AI got lots of release in such short window of time.
Chopstick wrote: There're still no melee focused Titan in the game. There're easy spot for new Titans, just not much.
Design wise the whole line is outdated as Titans carry less guns than tiny Imperium vehicle. That's why Imperial Knight can outgun Titans so easily, because they're not outdated.
Wut?
Reavers can focus on melee and do it well, though I do agree it would be funky to see one precisely meant for melee.
Titan guns blast other vehicles to bits and knights do not outgun titans in any way outside the Acastii, who have borked rules disconnected from their fluff. Every other type of knight gets plastered over the nearest wall in a shoot-out with the big fellas.
Chopstick wrote: There're still no melee focused Titan in the game. There're easy spot for new Titans, just not much.
Design wise the whole line is outdated as Titans carry less guns than tiny Imperium vehicle. That's why Imperial Knight can outgun Titans so easily, because they're not outdated.
Wut?
Titan guns blast other vehicles to bits and knights do not outgun titans in any way outside the Acastii, who have borked rules disconnected from their fluff. Every other type of knight gets plastered over the nearest wall in a shoot-out with the big fellas.
Avenger Gatling cannon power were nerfed, even though this thing have the same caliber round as the titan vulcan cannon because it'll be too much for a titan to handle (easy fluffy rule fix without nerfing the gun into being useless)
A single Questoris carry 4 guns, 5 if you also count the other anti-infantry only weapons on RFBC and Avenger. A Leman russ have 4 guns. The biggest battle machine ever made have 2/3/4+4 guns. The Warbringer was made recently so at least they have some sense to put 2 Hydra turret and 3 Anti infantry turret on it, but it's still a puny amount guns for a Titan. Dominus and new primaris tanks pack so much firepower it make the titan look embarrassingly bad, like a thing forever stuck in the past.
An equally pointed banner of knight have enough firepower to out gun any Titans, if you count fluff the Doom of molech start with banners of Knight errant blasting an Emperor titan to bits by attacking its reactor.
Not only that but Titan without support by knight/secutarii and air force are extremely vulnerable to boarding and air strike due to lack of turrets and anti air, T'au force destroyed a warhound in a single dive with a AX-1-0, meanwhile in one of the Titan comic a genestealer(or maybe a gaunt) manage to breach into the hull of a warlord and almost butcher the whole crew (actually one of the other titan got boarded and infested by nid) This should not have been a thing if they redesign the titan to modern standard.
In art, and probably some book, warhound was depicted with gun in their mouth, decade later and there're still no such thing in any kit.
TL: DR : modernize the titans so a tiny tank don't have more guns than it.
So, more guns is just flat out better huh? I'm guessing you're pretty pleased that every new vehicle design from GW has a minimum of 9 stubber variants stuck on it before it can progress past the concept phase.
Mr_Rose wrote: That it then, the last of the Forge World knights. Only things that remain from the Imperial Knights book are the Questoris Preceptor and the two Dominus class.
Not sure the preceptor will see the light of day since it’s literally an Errant but with a worse gun and a special rule for buffing Warmigers, which also aren’t appearing.
So maybe just the Dominus as a plastic kit, with one of each class and we can finally get to some new Titans?
If they were willing to to a swarm base, similar to rippers and scarabs in 40k, I reckon you could just about squeeze armigers in.
I disagree that titans need a lot more guns. They are more like post Dreadnought battleships with multiple heavy gun mounts and point defense compared to Knights, which carry a larger mix of various smaller calibre guns.
I would like to see the Warhound and Reaver pick up some point defense though like the warlord and Warbringer carry. It would be pretty easy to mount a pair of mauler bolters on the reaver, say on the forward side of the shoulders where they merge into the body, just below the shoulder plates. On the warhound, either on the chin or a rear mounted mauler would be nice.
Rules wise, the lascannons on the 40k warlord need to go back to 2 shots. Why did they drop to 1?
Well, since the Reaver got its variant box (Jan 2019?) to finish off the big three chassis, I *think* Knights have had five new kits to the Titans' two. Titans received a lot of weapon bits during that time also, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to feel that Titans have been taking a backseat for a while now. Clearly there isn't going to be a new Titan every quarter, mind you.
I still say the issue is clearly about manufacturing capacity during COVID and other games getting priority...even within SG. It's highly possible that we would have had the Warbringer variant by now if times were normal. I'd lay money that they have completed Titan designs that are sitting on ice.
Whatever the new Titan designs end up looking like, I hope they don’t follow this trend of sticking guns on every available surface.
The newer 40k Knights look horrible imho, with guns stuck all over the shoulders, armpits and back. Every new marine vehicle gets countless grenade/missile launchers and stubbers stuck all over the chassis. It’s horrible design.
Nostromodamus wrote: Whatever the new Titan designs end up looking like, I hope they don’t follow this trend of sticking guns on every available surface.
The newer 40k Knights look horrible imho, with guns stuck all over the shoulders, armpits and back. Every new marine vehicle gets countless grenade/missile launchers and stubbers stuck all over the chassis. It’s horrible design.
Reminds me of my toy soldier converting philosophy when I was 14.
"So, how do we make this better? More guns, or bigger guns?"
"Why not both??"
All that said, I think the Dominus Knights (if that's what you mean by 'Newer Knights') in 40K look fine. Better than the Questoris even.
I, too, am dismayed by this trend of sticking guns everywhere. The ridiculous overgunning of models in the last 10 or so years is the basis for 40k's crappy gameplay.
gorgon wrote: Well, since the Reaver got its variant box (Jan 2019?) to finish off the big three chassis, I *think* Knights have had five new kits to the Titans' two. Titans received a lot of weapon bits during that time also, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to feel that Titans have been taking a backseat for a while now. Clearly there isn't going to be a new Titan every quarter, mind you.
In that case the Titans are enjoying the back seat of a Limousine!
isn't that kinda supposed to be the point? the Mechanicum is abhorrent to change and since the titans predate most everything else in the Imperial Arsenal, they see no reason to improve upon that which is Godlike. I would rather them have a sort of FNP/plus 1 to voids to regular knight class weapons.
JWBS wrote:They can just start releasing the Titan Legions / Space Marine weapons if they want to give further specialisations to existing chasis types
MajorWesJanson wrote: I disagree that titans need a lot more guns. They are more like post Dreadnought battleships with multiple heavy gun mounts and point defense compared to Knights, which carry a larger mix of various smaller calibre guns.
Funny you brought that up because Battleships carry A LOT OF GUNS. This isn't "toy maker's philosophy" this is common sense, if something is big, it need defense to cover the weak spot, and to make up for the huge size. Otherwise we'll just stick to fast moving vehicle or aircraft with 1 or 2 big guns.
A resdesign solve the problem of adding new Titan chasis because every new chasis will be comapred to the trio-OG titans. Why is warbringer have AA while warlord didn't have any? Warbringer have 3 underside turrets, and WL have 4, shouldn't Reaver have 2 and Warhound have 1 by that logic?
And then you realized that they had to remove the Vulcan bolter from the arioch claw for this game because it'd be too good, why can't any other weapons ultilize this sub-weapon system like that? I'm surprised people was ok with "pretending a gun didn't exist" for balance instead of having thing properly designed so we can reenact a proper titan battle without "rules patch" for "balance reason". And maybe we can even play with aircrafts too, because all titans would have AA.
But it look like another 20 years+ before the resin mold at FW broke and they had to make a new titans design for the OG trio, maybe a new "pattern" like what they did to the Lightning.
The Questoris can have more weapons than either of the other two types of knights, but are generally weaker. Same when comparing the Warbringer to the Warlord; only the carapace weapon matches a Warlord's for might.
One other consideration is what weapons are available to a titan or knight; the Reaver, Warlord and Questoris enjoy being jacks-of-all trades. The remaining units however are more limited in their roles.
Quick question, so we have a bunch of Titans mentioned in the background that don't have models yet (Rapier, Punisher, etc). I was wondering if this also goes for Knights. Are there Knight types mentioned in the background that don't have models/designs yet?
Malika2 wrote: Quick question, so we have a bunch of Titans mentioned in the background that don't have models yet (Rapier, Punisher, etc). I was wondering if this also goes for Knights. Are there Knight types mentioned in the background that don't have models/designs yet?
Not really. You could make a case for the old "Epic scale" knights, but I think most of them are basically variants of the Questoris Pattern knight.
I do wonder. Are we expecting the newer Knight Patterns making an appearance, like the Armigers or the Dominus patterns?
Certainly possible. It doesn't seem like new plastic sprues will be happening for AT anytime soon, so they'd probably be resin if they come in the near future. I've definitely had my fill of Knights. I mean...ugh. But when FW is cranking them out in resin, it's not like they're being manufactured in place of new plastic Titans. If they weren't creating resin Knights, we'd be getting...basically nothing.
Since AT s set in 30k during the heresy and its knight releases follow the Heresy black and red books, according to those only the Knight Acastus Asterius and the Armiger type Morirax are the only two 30k era knights they have not done.
Those would be my guess that they will do before going into tainted titans and perhaps more weapon options for existing titans.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: For a game called "Adeptus Titanicus" there sure isn't a lot of Titans and a lot of Knights, huh?
Lord, Bringer, Hound, Reaver and the Warlord-Sinister. Five titans.
Questoris, Cerastus, Acastus, Mechanicum-Questoris, Mechanicum-Cerastus. Five knights.
If we're counting the different arming of the knights then its chump change compared to the selection of weapons the titans have available to them. And the expansions have definitely been far kinder to titans....
But yes, it is time for a new titan now. If going with just the core game the knights are only in the advanced rules and just support units. The titans shouldn't go too long without a release to keep players interested.
So here's hoping somehow you can just add a single atrapos to an existing banner instead of having to take two minimum. It's unfortunate that we'll have to wait until someone receives their atrapos before we see the command terminal.
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Wha-Mu-077 wrote: For a game called "Adeptus Titanicus" there sure isn't a lot of Titans and a lot of Knights, huh?
The knights are good but the titan's are still the main attraction, the modular nature of their weapons mounts makes the game actually have a lot of playability without needing to add new models all that often.
Man, I really like the Atrapos models, and I’m not surprised at the price, but... I could get a set of Warhounds for the same price from GW, or £10 cheaper elsewhere.
ImAGeek wrote: Man, I really like the Atrapos models, and I’m not surprised at the price, but... I could get a set of Warhounds for the same price from GW, or £10 cheaper elsewhere.
Absolutely.
In hindsight, If I were to start again with a knight force it would be just the two plastic Cerastus kits and a box of hounds. Everything else is either too expensive or hassle.
Curiously, the Atrapos points are not listed with the usual "+ weapons" bit, so they might either have no options at all or have any combination of them included in the base cost already.
Still, roughly 100 points per Cerastus body starts pushing it towards being a stylistic choice. If they can have two lascutters, that'll be funky.
Sherrypie wrote: Curiously, the Atrapos points are not listed with the usual "+ weapons" bit, so they might either have no options at all or have any combination of them included in the base cost already.
Still, roughly 100 points per Cerastus body starts pushing it towards being a stylistic choice. If they can have two lascutters, that'll be funky.
Yes, that part is certainly interesting. If it includes the weapon cost in the 200 points then they would be rather good units, rules wise. Yet, there a box on the back of the card that is hidden...hmmm.
Sherrypie wrote: Curiously, the Atrapos points are not listed with the usual "+ weapons" bit, so they might either have no options at all or have any combination of them included in the base cost already.
Still, roughly 100 points per Cerastus body starts pushing it towards being a stylistic choice. If they can have two lascutters, that'll be funky.
Yes, that part is certainly interesting. If it includes the weapon cost in the 200 points then they would be rather good units, rules wise. Yet, there a box on the back of the card that is hidden...hmmm.
Eh, debatable. A pair of Lancers is 170 points and have better saves with their gauntlets, which raises their survivability more than the flare shield and very rarely happening autosimulacra on the Mechanicum knigths. The grav gun is still pretty meh for the points. I don't think using them as shown here is shooting yourself in the foot, but they aren't really much to write home about either in comparison.
TBH I wish they'd let you mix & match within a banner. The fluff for my own Order would easily permit the occasional Mechanicum chassis as a unit leader, but I can't justify whole units of them trotting around. Obviously you couldn't mix entirely different chassis together, but I'm not seeing a particularly good reason you couldn't have a banner of two Lancers and an Atropos or what have you.
Eh, debatable. A pair of Lancers is 170 points and have better saves with their gauntlets, which raises their survivability more than the flare shield and very rarely happening autosimulacra on the Mechanicum knigths. The grav gun is still pretty meh for the points. I don't think using them as shown here is shooting yourself in the foot, but they aren't really much to write home about either in comparison.
The C-Lancers are the bread winners of the knights so far. I would get another pair to make a full banner for my Legio, but Wayland sadly isn't selling them at the moment. Starting to wonder if the current sets without the slim terminals and weapon cards are about to be repackaged...
The Atropos is definitely more useful than the Castigator, and would probably use it over the Acheron too.
Yodhrin wrote: TBH I wish they'd let you mix & match within a banner. The fluff for my own Order would easily permit the occasional Mechanicum chassis as a unit leader, but I can't justify whole units of them trotting around. Obviously you couldn't mix entirely different chassis together, but I'm not seeing a particularly good reason you couldn't have a banner of two Lancers and an Atropos or what have you.
As freeblades that would be reasonable, unless I've over looked something. However, to keep things simple I'd have them as additional marshals to a minimum banner. For example...
...the Autosimulacra might not make sense fluff-wise, but I don't think it would hurt the game any to let it stand. It would be a bit strange using two terminals for one banner, but one of them could just be for rules reference while the other one keeps track of points. The basic stats for structure, BS, WS and command are identical...yes, seems alright.
Crablezworth wrote: Truly disappointing, should have been a banner of one with a bad ass vortex gun.
No, it shouldn't have been that.
Yeah, as much as I'd have liked to see something a bit more interesting with the gun, knight banners simply shouldn't start from one in any default scenario in the current mechanical framework. Cheap activations that are hard to remove due to firepower splitting should be very sparsely available for under 200 points.
Crablezworth wrote: Truly disappointing, should have been a banner of one with a bad ass vortex gun.
No, it shouldn't have been that.
Yeah, as much as I'd have liked to see something a bit more interesting with the gun, knight banners simply shouldn't start from one in any default scenario in the current mechanical framework. Cheap activations that are hard to remove due to firepower splitting should be very sparsely available for under 200 points.
It's meant to be incredibly rare, now apparently it's so rare you can take 2-4 of them in a banner. Would much rather had it been 0-1 and decently cool.
The atropos is my favorite Knight chassis so itll probably be the only resin ones I buy. as much as I want styrix & maegera, atropos looks better to me.
they just really need to get on with the rapiers.....
Knight preceptor can be dealt with via a resin weapon for the las impeller. Chaos Knights won’t feature as they appear in 40k. At least not until they done corrupted Titans
Crablezworth wrote: Truly disappointing, should have been a banner of one with a bad ass vortex gun.
No, it shouldn't have been that.
Yeah, as much as I'd have liked to see something a bit more interesting with the gun, knight banners simply shouldn't start from one in any default scenario in the current mechanical framework. Cheap activations that are hard to remove due to firepower splitting should be very sparsely available for under 200 points.
It's meant to be incredibly rare, now apparently it's so rare you can take 2-4 of them in a banner. Would much rather had it been 0-1 and decently cool.
Vortex weapons on the scale implied in the rules aren't really fitted on knights, simple as that. Why they aren't yet available as missile banks on Warlords or battlefield assets is another question entirely, since those would be the places where they do belong. On rarity, let's remember GW fails at numbers whenever they write anything. Having a couple of suits in your list does not mean they aren't rare treats on the galactic scale but having individual knights sucks from the mechanical point of view, so...
I’m confused why we’re arguing about what weapons the Atrapos should have, when we know what weapons it has from 40k and neither of them are vortex weapons?
It is, but it's effect is rather limited. A traditional 40k blast template doesn't even register on the scale where AT operates, and as I said, "on the scale implied in the rules" where Vortex weapons leave rolling warp holes the size of buildings on the table and hit harder than most titan scale weapons bypassing shields... just don't put that on knights, where it doesn't belong.
Just a question for those running Ursus claws and Natrix lances; are they any good against enemy hounds, reavers and knights? Or are they best used on Lords and Bringers?
I'm considering a trio of warhounds for a Lupercal maniple, but trying to avoid repeating whats on the other side of the table, so to speak.
ImAGeek wrote: I’m confused why we’re arguing about what weapons the Atrapos should have, when we know what weapons it has from 40k and neither of them are vortex weapons?
Because it has a wandering template in 30k/40k that still used templates.
Anyhow yes it can’t be *too* devastating because it’s a knight weapon in a titan game, but I think most people were expecting a literal black hole gun to be more exciting than “S6 shot”.
It is, but it's effect is rather limited. A traditional 40k blast template doesn't even register on the scale where AT operates, and as I said, "on the scale implied in the rules" where Vortex weapons leave rolling warp holes the size of buildings on the table and hit harder than most titan scale weapons bypassing shields... just don't put that on knights, where it doesn't belong.
Then it'll be a non-blast weapon, a lot of large blast weapon are non-blast in this game.As mentioned a lot of time before, the Graviton cannon is not a true vortex weapon, it's an unstable weapon that can create a vortex warp hole. and also have the equally chance of destroying its own user. If they had written the rule that way and gave it the correct range (12"), it wouldn't even be that great. Weapon work fine in 30/40k, don't know why it suddenly not belong here? There're plenty of space on the card to write a new rule for the weapon.
Also the rule that give blast weapon double hit is an inherently broken mechanic
It is, but it's effect is rather limited. A traditional 40k blast template doesn't even register on the scale where AT operates, and as I said, "on the scale implied in the rules" where Vortex weapons leave rolling warp holes the size of buildings on the table and hit harder than most titan scale weapons bypassing shields... just don't put that on knights, where it doesn't belong.
Just a suggestion, perhaps take a gander at the 30k atrapos rules. It literally has a chance of generating a roaming template that eats stuff, much like a vortex grenade. It wouldn't need be every shot, could be like on 6's or something. There's a description of an atrapos in the latest book killing two titans by running between them and cutting the leg of one so if fell into the other, they're meant to be quite the knight.
ImAGeek wrote: I’m confused why we’re arguing about what weapons the Atrapos should have, when we know what weapons it has from 40k and neither of them are vortex weapons?
Because it has a wandering template in 30k/40k that still used templates.
Anyhow yes it can’t be *too* devastating because it’s a knight weapon in a titan game, but I think most people were expecting a literal black hole gun to be more exciting than “S6 shot”.
I have the black books those appeared and have read them, yes. Again, making a teeny template that rolls around on a scale where turbo lasers work like laser pointers is rather irrelevant in comparison to how Vortex is currently written in the rules (that being d6 S10 hits bypassing shields). That's what I'm objecting to, not the possibility of having more oompf in the gun than one S6 blast. It could have a chance to gain extra strenght on sixes or something similar while hurting itself on ones, sure.
Regarding that leg-cutting, it's pretty good at that as is. Two attacks, hitting on 2+ rerolling ones against non-Warhound titans and from behind the you have a 60 % chance per hit to score at least Devastating hits against Reavers. A pair of those guys can rather reliably cut down a titan on Charge.
Regarding that leg-cutting, it's pretty good at that as is. Two attacks, hitting on 2+ rerolling ones against non-Warhound titans and from behind the you have a 60 % chance per hit to score at least Devastating hits against Reavers. A pair of those guys can rather reliably cut down a titan on Charge.
Would really have preferred it being a unit of one, one the upside apparently it comes with a thick card terminal, hoping that becomes a trend.
Reading the open engine war cards, vox screech (battlefield effects) they mention psi-titans and corrupted titans are unaffected by this rule. So hopefully we'll see some more teased on that front. The titanicus video game has a cool corrupted warlord with a tail and they're apparently attempting to release the single player campaign by xmas.
1) Alternative starter set for Knight Household games.
2) Smallest titan yet for skirmishing.
3) Chaos hound & reaver plastic/resin kits from forgeworld.
4) The Warbringer variant and upgrade sprue.
5) Asterius and a revised terminal.
6) A small battle titan than can use both hound and reaver weapons.
7) Or....no new titans at all but brand new plastic weapon sprues for existing titans with accompanying cards.
8) Expansion book for Corrupted chaos titans and renegades.
9) Expansion that includes the first solo-coop campaign.
10) New scenery.
11) Resin beasts for beast hunts.
...yet we just don't know and its GW turn to bat...
all of those things would be great. I just worry that since they're given less priority by the mainline production, it'll take 10yrs at the current rate before they'd get to most of them.
1) Alternative starter set for Knight Household games.
2) Smallest titan yet for skirmishing.
3) Chaos hound & reaver plastic/resin kits from forgeworld.
4) The Warbringer variant and upgrade sprue.
5) Asterius and a revised terminal.
6) A small battle titan than can use both hound and reaver weapons.
7) Or....no new titans at all but brand new plastic weapon sprues for existing titans with accompanying cards.
8) Expansion book for Corrupted chaos titans and renegades.
9) Expansion that includes the first solo-coop campaign.
10) New scenery.
11) Resin beasts for beast hunts.
...yet we just don't know and its GW turn to bat...
More plastic Titans and corrupted Titans are definitely coming unless the whole game gets cancelled. They've talked about 'tweener Titans in the pipeline, and at this point we've only seen one. Regarding corrupted Titans, my chips are on a Banelord as a counterpoint to the Warlord Psi-Titan.
IIRC, they said BFG will take a while. And with COVID wrecking release schedules, I wouldn't expect it anytime soon.
They've definitely been mentioning the Rapier here and there. I feel like it's probably next, but that might just be me wishlisting. I'd really like a new Titan option for my Ember Wolves.
It's funny...they mentioned a Kado book at the same time they were talking up S&I. And yet we've had two books since and no Kado. The old fluff suggests it may unveil some corrupted Titans and Knights, so maybe it was pushed back because the minis aren't ready/up yet in the production queue.
The alliegence rules in Defence of Ryza makes reference to Corrupted and Renegade titans - you may or may not take them depending on your alliegence. Definitely in the works somewhere...
Just out of curiosity, in 40K do the Chaos hound and reaver differ - rules wise - from their imperial counter parts? If so, could that be a clue as to what we can expect going forward?
I think instead of new titan classes I'd rather see variants like lucius pattern version of the current mars titans. The classes are all pretty well spaced out in terms of scale/armour. The varients could just offer different stats at that scale, like a lucius warhound could be slightly slower but have better armour, same exact weapon options and so on.
I think regardless of a corrupted titan kit being plastic or resin, they really should consider simply a chaos plastic sprue or sprues to truly render one's legion traitor/chaos af. Late stage, like corpses hanging on chains level chaos should you wish.
Corrupted is tough if it's resin because they'll likely have to gear it towards one of the chaos gods so it's likely to look khorne or nurgle af. Again a plastic kit with a lot of bits would be preferable if one wishes to take a more individed approach or just to have variance out there.
I really really hope we start to see proper corrupted Chaos Titans at some point. To me it would be a sign of long term viability in AT as well as a show of the designers being willing to branch out from purely Imperial designs. I think whilst its basically civil war titans its missing a certain something to the game.
That rule is only there because of the redundant "you can only take one banner for your army" house rule, which should have been "both sides must take equal amounts of Acastus.". With the points increase and banner reduction it serves no purpose.
What I do agree with though, is a revision of its weapons. I wouldn't remove the blast trait( its supposed to be long-range artilary and the only option for an all-knight force ) but the strength on the cannons need to be reduced and most certainly the missile rack should not be as devasting as a reaver's carapace missile launcher. Consider that the Acastus lacks a titan's plasma generator and is smaller, its output shouldn't be as powerful as a titan's. Enough to be a serious threat to a Warhound and maybe give a battle titan a bloody nose, but nothing more. With such changes I'd drop the base cost of the Acastus by about 15-20 points.
Acactus weapon don't have a big enough blast in normal 30k/40k to be considered a blast weapon in this game. The Strength value of main cannon is correct in relation to similar weapon.
Weapon made with rule writer's own fatansy lead to broken and messy rule. stick to the one already established, tried and true in other publications and convert them back into this game should always be the case.
At the end of the day its up to GW to fix those rules and we'll just wait until then. In the meantime I'm just not going to buy anymore of those kits and instead looking forward to a new titan.
I guess a new thread wouldn't hurt...
