They're slightly reformatted too I think, little smaller than the old ones.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So bad news, either fw is lying or there was a miscommunication but no card terminal, still paper with no holes punched
Along those lines, as I'm going to make a go of building my own Warlord Sinister, is there a download available of its terminal and cards, and/or are they available for purchase in one of the terminal/card packs?
Alpharius wrote: Along those lines, as I'm going to make a go of building my own Warlord Sinister, is there a download available of its terminal and cards, and/or are they available for purchase in one of the terminal/card packs?
It's more or less the same as the warlord terminal just different point cost and locked in left arm weapon. But I believe the armour values and pips are all the same otherwise.
SamusDrake wrote:No idea about the terminals save for googling some images, which I tend to do.
Intrigued as to your plan to build the Sinister. Scratch build? 3D Printed? Kit-bash? Loo-rolls?
Probably a bit of all that - I've got access to a nice 3D printer these days too!
Crablezworth wrote:
Alpharius wrote: Along those lines, as I'm going to make a go of building my own Warlord Sinister, is there a download available of its terminal and cards, and/or are they available for purchase in one of the terminal/card packs?
It's more or less the same as the warlord terminal just different point cost and locked in left arm weapon. But I believe the armour values and pips are all the same otherwise.
Spoiler:
That's a nice image, if nothing else I should be able to print one out.
I was hoping for an 'official' one being available for download (I thought that FQ/GW already did that for us?) or purchase in a pack - and I'm surprised that the weapons at least didn't show up in one of the various card packs that were for sale...
Yeah it's a bit weird they won't even give us the option to self gouge ourselves. Double weird on the card front, they had no prob doing one off card prints in the warbringer's box. There's pics of the sinistre tenebre card in shadow and iron I think.
If the Rapier scout is next, it would make sense for them to print the 5 pack of just that terminal.
As for cards, I'd personally love it if they did an "Omnissiah-issued weapons pack, with the carapace weapons for the warbringer, claw and lance for the warhound, psy titan arm, and then some new options they can add in resin later like carapace plasma and support missiles for the warlord, sonic disruptor for the warbringer carapace or warlord arms, carapace flamer and maybe volkite for the reaver.
MajorWesJanson wrote: If the Rapier scout is next, it would make sense for them to print the 5 pack of just that terminal.
As for cards, I'd personally love it if they did an "Omnissiah-issued weapons pack, with the carapace weapons for the warbringer, claw and lance for the warhound, psy titan arm, and then some new options they can add in resin later like carapace plasma and support missiles for the warlord, sonic disruptor for the warbringer carapace or warlord arms, carapace flamer and maybe volkite for the reaver.
They might also mix other "missing" cards in with the Rapier pack.
I'd love to see more weapon options for existing Titans. Hard to say what's in the future though.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: How long until GW decides they can get more money out of Titanicus by putting Marines in it though
Honestly the problem is, marines don't really add a ton in terms of interesting gameplay. They just have a handful of superheavy tanks that would realistically be involved in titanic combat, and they're not particularly compelling, I would argue they're less iconic than stuff like Baneblades - like really, how many people can recall from memory what a Falchion or a Mastodon looks like - and in general they would not seem to have much of an actual reason to be involved. If you've got a giant robot protected by impenetrable shields that can flatten cities with its cannons, you're not going to commit infantry assets to that battlefield that cost you 200000 times more per head and that don't make a lick of difference.
But hey, AT does have the rule that a single melta gun can cause a S8 ignoring void shields hit, so really the most cost-effective weapon in the game would be a space marine assault squad with a pair of melta guns for 32 points
They could just make cool models for existing battlefield assets and they'd sell like hot cakes. The could make it so the smaller assets are what's used to control an objectives like with goonhammer's home brew scenario.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: How long until GW decides they can get more money out of Titanicus by putting Marines in it though
Honestly the problem is, marines don't really add a ton in terms of interesting gameplay. They just have a handful of superheavy tanks that would realistically be involved in titanic combat, and they're not particularly compelling, I would argue they're less iconic than stuff like Baneblades - like really, how many people can recall from memory what a Falchion or a Mastodon looks like - and in general they would not seem to have much of an actual reason to be involved. If you've got a giant robot protected by impenetrable shields that can flatten cities with its cannons, you're not going to commit infantry assets to that battlefield that cost you 200000 times more per head and that don't make a lick of difference.
But hey, AT does have the rule that a single melta gun can cause a S8 ignoring void shields hit, so really the most cost-effective weapon in the game would be a space marine assault squad with a pair of melta guns for 32 points
Don't the Legions have entire Special weapon squads so upto 20 marines ALL with Melta guns?
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: How long until GW decides they can get more money out of Titanicus by putting Marines in it though
Honestly the problem is, marines don't really add a ton in terms of interesting gameplay. They just have a handful of superheavy tanks that would realistically be involved in titanic combat, and they're not particularly compelling, I would argue they're less iconic than stuff like Baneblades - like really, how many people can recall from memory what a Falchion or a Mastodon looks like - and in general they would not seem to have much of an actual reason to be involved. If you've got a giant robot protected by impenetrable shields that can flatten cities with its cannons, you're not going to commit infantry assets to that battlefield that cost you 200000 times more per head and that don't make a lick of difference.
But hey, AT does have the rule that a single melta gun can cause a S8 ignoring void shields hit, so really the most cost-effective weapon in the game would be a space marine assault squad with a pair of melta guns for 32 points
Don't the Legions have entire Special weapon squads so upto 20 marines ALL with Melta guns?
On one hand, even more bloody Marines in everything
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: How long until GW decides they can get more money out of Titanicus by putting Marines in it though
Honestly the problem is, marines don't really add a ton in terms of interesting gameplay. They just have a handful of superheavy tanks that would realistically be involved in titanic combat, and they're not particularly compelling, I would argue they're less iconic than stuff like Baneblades - like really, how many people can recall from memory what a Falchion or a Mastodon looks like - and in general they would not seem to have much of an actual reason to be involved. If you've got a giant robot protected by impenetrable shields that can flatten cities with its cannons, you're not going to commit infantry assets to that battlefield that cost you 200000 times more per head and that don't make a lick of difference.
But hey, AT does have the rule that a single melta gun can cause a S8 ignoring void shields hit, so really the most cost-effective weapon in the game would be a space marine assault squad with a pair of melta guns for 32 points
Don't the Legions have entire Special weapon squads so upto 20 marines ALL with Melta guns?
Up to 10, but other than that, yes.
As to reasons for fielding... I was under the assumption that marines and rhinos and the like could get inside the shields. Were I a princeps, I would not like to have space marines with access to the unarmored and unshielded bits of my titan... then again, that's what battlefield assets are like in AT.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: How long until GW decides they can get more money out of Titanicus by putting Marines in it though
Honestly the problem is, marines don't really add a ton in terms of interesting gameplay. They just have a handful of superheavy tanks that would realistically be involved in titanic combat, and they're not particularly compelling, I would argue they're less iconic than stuff like Baneblades - like really, how many people can recall from memory what a Falchion or a Mastodon looks like - and in general they would not seem to have much of an actual reason to be involved. If you've got a giant robot protected by impenetrable shields that can flatten cities with its cannons, you're not going to commit infantry assets to that battlefield that cost you 200000 times more per head and that don't make a lick of difference.
But hey, AT does have the rule that a single melta gun can cause a S8 ignoring void shields hit, so really the most cost-effective weapon in the game would be a space marine assault squad with a pair of melta guns for 32 points
Don't the Legions have entire Special weapon squads so upto 20 marines ALL with Melta guns?
On one hand, even more bloody Marines in everything
On second hand, Plastic Epic-Scale Marines
as much as the first is true and not a good thing, the second would be 30K(mk III, IV, V)PLASTIC marines, which is obviously a worthy application of Astartes
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: How long until GW decides they can get more money out of Titanicus by putting Marines in it though
Honestly the problem is, marines don't really add a ton in terms of interesting gameplay. They just have a handful of superheavy tanks that would realistically be involved in titanic combat, and they're not particularly compelling, I would argue they're less iconic than stuff like Baneblades - like really, how many people can recall from memory what a Falchion or a Mastodon looks like - and in general they would not seem to have much of an actual reason to be involved. If you've got a giant robot protected by impenetrable shields that can flatten cities with its cannons, you're not going to commit infantry assets to that battlefield that cost you 200000 times more per head and that don't make a lick of difference.
But hey, AT does have the rule that a single melta gun can cause a S8 ignoring void shields hit, so really the most cost-effective weapon in the game would be a space marine assault squad with a pair of melta guns for 32 points
Don't the Legions have entire Special weapon squads so upto 20 marines ALL with Melta guns?
On one hand, even more bloody Marines in everything
On second hand, Plastic Epic-Scale Marines
as much as the first is true and not a good thing, the second would be 30K(mk III, IV, V)PLASTIC marines, which is obviously a worthy application of Astartes
as much as the first is true and not a good thing, the second would be 30K(mk III, IV, V)PLASTIC marines, which is obviously a worthy application of Astartes
But we already have Mark III and IV as plastic kits.
FW had repeatedly said that this is a game of Titans, not a retread of Epic.
They have enough Titan material to keep them going for years, so while I understand that some would like to see the game go that way, it's not in FW's plans.
schoon wrote: FW had repeatedly said that this is a game of Titans, not a retread of Epic.
They have enough Titan material to keep them going for years, so while I understand that some would like to see the game go that way, it's not in FW's plans.
If a GW exec says,
"Hey guys I noticed you could include Marines in this game, how about you do that?" FW would ask "How many?" and that'd be that.
schoon wrote: FW had repeatedly said that this is a game of Titans, not a retread of Epic.
They have enough Titan material to keep them going for years, so while I understand that some would like to see the game go that way, it's not in FW's plans.
If a GW exec says,
"Hey guys I noticed you could include Marines in this game, how about you do that?" FW would ask "How many?" and that'd be that.
While technically true, I can't see that happening based on what they have publicly announced about their intentions for the game.
I'm happy to entertain evidence to the contrary, though. I loved Epic, but I also understood how it eventually failed under the weight of too many SKUs.
Make Epic it’s own thing, don’t add the stuff to Titanicus. They were always separate games anyway, weren’t they? And frankly I don’t trust them to add loads of stuff to Titanicus like that while keeping it the pretty damn good game it is now.
They might make tiny marines when they ran out of ideas and too lazy to come up with new one. Plus making them cost penny compared to a knight or titans.
I, too, want some tiny Vindicare to put on the balcony on the Warbringer, maybe a tiny titan cockpit with the Princerp.
I'd love to see an Horus Heresy Epic game, which could use AT Titans and Knights models, but would prefer seeing the systems being separate. Would be great to have some 8mm Heresy-era plastic infantry.
CorwinB wrote: I'd love to see an Horus Heresy Epic game, which could use AT Titans and Knights models, but would prefer seeing the systems being separate. Would be great to have some 8mm Heresy-era plastic infantry.
Given the snail pace release schedule for Titanicus and Aeronautica, this sounds sensible.
I really hope they don't do Horus Heresy Epic scale. If just because it locks out all the Xenos races :(
I can't see them making the systems separate scales, they'd scale them the same. The rules would be different. Heck even in the first editions of all these things the rules between AT and Titan Legions and Epic were different - you don't need fine grain control over titans when you've got dozens of other units to command as well.
Also don't forget marines change a lot after the HH events; whilst titans basically don't. So right now its early HH battles with titans, but they can advance the story to any point they want without having to change titans save that traitor armies would become more warped and mutated. Which is something I really hope they do "soon". Imperial VS Imperial is nice, but there's so much more out there
Overread wrote: I really hope they don't do Horus Heresy Epic scale. If just because it locks out all the Xenos races :(
I can't see them making the systems separate scales, they'd scale them the same. The rules would be different. Heck even in the first editions of all these things the rules between AT and Titan Legions and Epic were different - you don't need fine grain control over titans when you've got dozens of other units to command as well.
Also don't forget marines change a lot after the HH events; whilst titans basically don't. So right now its early HH battles with titans, but they can advance the story to any point they want without having to change titans save that traitor armies would become more warped and mutated. Which is something I really hope they do "soon". Imperial VS Imperial is nice, but there's so much more out there
To be fair, I’ve yet to see anything about Titanicus as a system that’s actually heresy specific other than as an excuse to have one faction, two if you count knight households separately from Titans.
Hmm, interesting. Trying to work out what sort of size that is (I'm assuming all the shots are of one model, though guess it could be two different ones). It looks almost like it could be Warlord sized, if not bigger. The shoulder\upper arm looks similar to the warlord but bulkier and that gun looks pretty hefty, like a more powerful sunfury (could just be a different design for something smaller, but that would seem unusual when we already have designs for various scales of plasma weapon). Obviously the old Imperator had a big plasma weapon, but the carapace doesn't look right for that (no massive cathedral on it!)
The top carapace looks like it could be quite open (like the Warbringer) and obviously looks to have some sort of air defence turret. The two air intakes also match the Warlord though side by side rather than one above the other, which also suggests it's warlord sized.
Cant quite work out what's going on with that segmented armour down the front though, seems weirdly positioned and can't work out exactly how it all fits together from that angle.
And obviously, there's the question, will we get a 40k scaled one.
Looks bipedal to me, and those plasma guns are mounted above the legs. Not underslung like Punishers description(head as well IIRC). Going by the number and spacing of the armour trim studs I'm guessing its in the Warbringer or Warlord size range. Carapace/Shoulders look interesting. Quite bulky and open with some kind of heavy point defence and with a large gap between them. Maybe a non Warbringer based Nemesis type? But that multi segmented section is confusing. It looks to far forward to be part of the chest/crotch armour.
GoatboyBeta wrote: But that multi segmented section is confusing. It looks to far forward to be part of the chest/crotch armour.
Yeah, it is weird, the largest panel looks like it is chest armour but then the smaller panels coming down from it seem really weirdly placed, so maybe further forward than that, I'm wondering if the body is quite flat and protrudes a long way forward from the waist and those panels are in the underside of it? Or maybe they are something else entirely, the difference in focus suggests they are much closer to the camera than the waist section, but can't work out what they could be.
Well goodness me, I thought this was Adeptus Titanicus, not "Adeptus Titanicus"...pffffhhh.
...oh hang on....doh!
Seriously, though, its great to have at least one new titan on the way but was deep down hoping for something just under the Reaver.
Going forward, I have two hopes for the game. The first is an expansion that allows a player to create their own custom maniples. The second is new rules that enhance household vs household battles, because the current rules feel like band-aid for levelling the playing field with titans.
The weapons suggest a Warbringer or Warlord, but the abdomen area seems very flexible as if to suggest a mobile frame. The carapace is a bit odd and looks like a heavy hitter carapace.
Y’know, at first I thought it was the Volcano Cannon Warbringer, but laid out like that it’s clearly a different, but quite similar beast.
I’m going to concur with the notion that this is just a regular non-Nemesis Warbringer chassis. Beefy looking plasma cannon there, hope the stats aren’t too out of whack.
Seems to have single-barrel defence cannon too.
I think it's too big to be a Rapier (unless it's the big scale FW one.....) but too small to be anything larger than Warlord. I've estimated this with the highly scientific 'squinting a bit' method and assuming that the AA gun on the back is a single-barrelled version of the one on the Warbringer.
There are mentions of a big ol' grab-bag of other Titans in the fluff, especially the black books. Most of them are just names though but a couple have more details. I think the Carnivore is described as a medium range battle titan around about Reaver size and the Mirage is a heavier battle titan.
My guess is Mirage, the space on the back holds some kind of battlefield command station and its a 'spell casting' Titan. Its maybe Warlord or Warbringer size, but shorter and wider. My 2cents.
I think that picture stitch is slightly off and its a lot bulkier than it appears. I think an extra plate has snuck in, you can see where the mars Cog is disrupted and the torso is slightly asymmetrical. Good on the guy who put it together though
If it is a bit smaller, could be a non-nemesis Warbringer, with battle titan scale plasma arms, and a normal carapace mount instead of the warlord scale one. Heavier armor for being closer range instead of walking fire support.
I think you're looking at 2 different Titans here. Biggest giveaway is that the Paint Job doesn't match. One is aboviously the Warbringer variant, the other could be a few things. So lets assume the obvious picture with the Red and Blue paint is the Warbringer variant, that leaves the dark coloured one.
Also consider which Armour plates they've used to construct it, given the plastic kits contain both Chaos & Imperial, they've used the Chaos ones. And we have an Imperial variant in the Psy Titan , could this be a Chaos one to balance things out?
But, if the Psy is Forgeworld, it's doubtful a dedicated Chaos one would be all plastic, and it's also doubtful that they'd showcase a resin one. Having said this, based on the sales of the Psy titan, they could have made the desision to do the Banelord in plastic. Even if you've an Imperial force, as a colector you'd want the Banelord.
Also consider the paintjob, similar colour to that of the Psy Titan, could it be a Reaver Psy?
Point is, there's not much here other than causing huge specualtion (which it already has). If I was a betting man, the 2nd Warbringer Variant.
My money is on a larger-than-Warlord but smaller-than-Imperator new titan. It seems quite massive and reminiscent of this Jess Goodwin sketch
Good catch, that torso armour definitely could be inspired by that sketch. In the same way a Warbringer uses Warlord-class weapons, we could see an in-between class of titan using Emperor-class weaponry.
TheSecretSquig wrote: I think you're looking at 2 different Titans here. Biggest giveaway is that the Paint Job doesn't match. One is aboviously the Warbringer variant, the other could be a few things. So lets assume the obvious picture with the Red and Blue paint is the Warbringer variant, that leaves the dark coloured one.
Also consider which Armour plates they've used to construct it, given the plastic kits contain both Chaos & Imperial, they've used the Chaos ones. And we have an Imperial variant in the Psy Titan , could this be a Chaos one to balance things out?
But, if the Psy is Forgeworld, it's doubtful a dedicated Chaos one would be all plastic, and it's also doubtful that they'd showcase a resin one. Having said this, based on the sales of the Psy titan, they could have made the desision to do the Banelord in plastic. Even if you've an Imperial force, as a colector you'd want the Banelord.
Also consider the paintjob, similar colour to that of the Psy Titan, could it be a Reaver Psy?
Point is, there's not much here other than causing huge specualtion (which it already has). If I was a betting man, the 2nd Warbringer Variant.
The ‘blue’ on the blue and red one is just the bluey-black they use for Legio Mortis. It’s just the one Titan.
My money is on a larger-than-Warlord but smaller-than-Imperator new titan. It seems quite massive and reminiscent of this Jess Goodwin sketch
Good catch, that torso armour definitely could be inspired by that sketch. In the same way a Warbringer uses Warlord-class weapons, we could see an in-between class of titan using Emperor-class weaponry.
If the Titan is inspired by the old sketch(big if) then the the lower leg armour would go all the way to the upper leg, like armoured knee high boots with an extended front.
I'd bet that weird double skeleton underneath isn't present on the finished model, that just seems to make no sense at all, way too many ball joints. The other distinctive design cues are definitely from the sketch though.
zedmeister wrote: Good memory there Mendi. Looks plausible. Not sure how heavy a class this will be..?
Could also be some sort of Warlord command titan. I remember the Legatus class was supposed to be a command titan
Legatus class? Where was that one mentioned?
Probably around 10-15 year ago, someone on Warseer mentioned being able to quiz Gw staff at some point about the canned Codex Titanicus II from 1st edition and the contents. They let slip a few Titan classes that were planned but never made it. The Legatus was one of them.
Further things occur to me. Those plasma weapons could be the updated plasma destructors - destructive potential equivalent to the imperator plasma annihilator but without the volume. Also, if there are no carapace weapons beyond the AA guns, maybe it carriers a carapace landing pad and/or fire control tower. Finally, if it is some sort of command Titan, it may be more of a force multiplier?
A good catch thanks to the collective mind, it seems the first post of the Jes Goodwin sketch was on a Discord group.
From the twitch streams I remember, they mentioned willingness to bring additional titan classes bracketing the existing Warhound - Reaver and Warlord classes. My guess is this one is just above Warlord size. It gives me the feeling it is massive, the extra armour would make sense for a slow one with big guns. The Warlord class Nemesis variants had limited manoeuvrability in the original game (which sadly I don't own), so might be something related or at least inspired by.
Quite curious to see what it will be.
In any case, I'm happy there is another titan joining the fray soon(ish?).
The only drawback I see with the layered armour plates is that there will be even more trim to paint ... oh God ... lol.
Hmm, most people pegging it as above Warlord size. I'd be thrilled if this were the case but my inner pessimist is telling me this is going to be closer to Reaver (the original artwork has an Adept for scale and it puts the Titan somewhere in the Reaver range).
JWBS wrote: Hmm, most people pegging it as above Warlord size. I'd be thrilled if this were the case but my inner pessimist is telling me this is going to be closer to Reaver (the original artwork has an Adept for scale and it puts the Titan somewhere in the Reaver range).
Well, that art is over 30 years old and would probably put them roughly at the same size as a knight!
Trim for the trim god. I dig it, more variety to the legion as it grows ever larger. Good motivation to get painting, if there's some new shinies already waiting to join the queue
*squints*
Well damn That would probably put it close to the Warhound in size. Which is kind of spooky as the old plastic Warlord model is just a touch shorter than the current AT Warhound.
JWBS wrote: Hmm, most people pegging it as above Warlord size. I'd be thrilled if this were the case but my inner pessimist is telling me this is going to be closer to Reaver (the original artwork has an Adept for scale and it puts the Titan somewhere in the Reaver range).
With the small yet crisp detail present in the model, I expect it will be closer to the Warbringer Titan in size. The in-between size seems like a perfect niche for GW to produce the lesser known variants without overshadowing the main product line.
Honestly I'd rather see more small-medium sized titans. I feel that the Warlords are as big as they should go for anything other than special scenarios.
Albertorius wrote: Honestly I'd rather see more small-medium sized titans. I feel that the Warlords are as big as they should go for anything other than special scenarios.
I agree, as cool as a big model is, it's the small to mid range stuff that'd be more interesting to see. The warlords are already pretty cumbersome, hoping this thing isn't much bigger, Don't want every scenario to be kill the big 1000pt thing.
Albertorius wrote: Honestly I'd rather see more small-medium sized titans. I feel that the Warlords are as big as they should go for anything other than special scenarios.
I agree, as cool as a big model is, it's the small to mid range stuff that'd be more interesting to see. The warlords are already pretty cumbersome, hoping this thing isn't much bigger, Don't want every scenario to be kill the big 1000pt thing.
Don't they make the biggest super things a bit overcosted to avoid this type of stuff though? Like, to stop everyone just going straight for the mega deathstar, make it a little weaker than it should be, so that the cool factor has a cost and people are less likely to default it (I dunno, maybe they don't, I'm not a player but I seem to remember they mostly do this. Same for computer strategy games etc).
Albertorius wrote: Honestly I'd rather see more small-medium sized titans. I feel that the Warlords are as big as they should go for anything other than special scenarios.
I agree, as cool as a big model is, it's the small to mid range stuff that'd be more interesting to see. The warlords are already pretty cumbersome, hoping this thing isn't much bigger, Don't want every scenario to be kill the big 1000pt thing.
Don't they make the biggest super things a bit overcosted to avoid this type of stuff though? Like, to stop everyone just going straight for the mega deathstar, make it a little weaker than it should be, so that the cool factor has a cost and people are less likely to default it (I dunno, maybe they don't, I'm not a player but I seem to remember they mostly do this. Same for computer strategy games etc).
Yeah I guess my concern is AT isn't really apoc, it's activation based. I already have friends that think the game will work 2v2 and every game of AT should be high point level and model count. When I point out it's the opposite and games from about 1000-2000 are sorta the limit of the system given space and time limits, can only play for so long and fit so many terminals. When AT launched the starter was a bit silly just because it was the two extremes of the scale, warlords and knights. Game only felt fleshed out when warhounds/reavers came out. I don't mind people collecting a big AT model I just don't want it to change the game in the wrong direction. Even the main designer of AT when asked about a model as big as the imperator kinda shrugged it off, the game was really conceived as like 3-5 big robots a side duke it out, even the knight stuff feels like its straining things and sortof a sideshow. I'm stoked on new titans if they make sense and flesh things out scale wise, if this new titan isn't as big as we think and more just a different scale 9-10 titan, like some have suspected more on the command or support side, it'd be better for the game than some monstrous scale 14 thing that everyone wants jammed into every game.
Cards on the table, in my end of things it was all the massive models like baneblades and knights that ruined 40k. Scale creep and culture of everyone getting their way just lead to a race to the bottom. What used to be a combined arms tactical turn based game became having a super heavy and skyshield in every game ever. AT needs fresh blood but it needs people to play the game for what it is, not enter it on false pretenses. The player that only want to play with their 3 warlords every game, so to speak. I've got a pretty fleshed out battlegroup, I'd say im comfortable anywhere between about 1000-2000, outside that on the low end or high I'm just not that interested. But I can be flexible and make battlegroups work in that framework, I've also magnetized everything weaponry for flexibility.
But I'm optimistic it won't be some massive model, I think it will actually be scale 10 like a warlord, just hoping we don't get another porphyrion moment.
Part of me wishes they would do an Imperator, just to get the damn thing out of the way so everyone can move on.
But the rest of me agrees that its fine if the Warlord stays as the biggest boy on the table, and there is plenty of space for expanding the range without going bigger.
Going by the teaser vid I could see an engine that's maybe between the Warbringer and Warlord in size. But more heavily armoured and without carapace guns, as its arm weapons are so power hungry.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Part of me wishes they would do an Imperator, just to get the damn thing out of the way so everyone can move on.
But the rest of me agrees that its fine if the Warlord stays as the biggest boy on the table, and there is plenty of space for expanding the range without going bigger.
Going by the teaser vid I could see an engine that's maybe between the Warbringer and Warlord in size. But more heavily armoured and without carapace guns, as its arm weapons are so power hungry.
Ya if it's effectively a faster warlord without carapace weapons that could be really cool. The biggest problem with the warlord's cc prowess is it's just too damn slow to be scary on the offense like a reaver, so if this thing can give cc reavers a moment of pause it could be good for the game.
The game does work 2v2, even well above, Crablez. I enjoyed the 5k per side megabattle we had with 3v2, though it surely benefits from altering the activation sequence a bit at those levels so all participants get to contribute more effectively.
Still, those are the odd special events and the game is at its tightest around the 1750 points mark. Here's hoping the new fella will find a place in that frame
Crablezworth wrote: Cards on the table, in my end of things it was all the massive models like baneblades and knights that ruined 40k. Scale creep and culture of everyone getting their way just lead to a race to the bottom. What used to be a combined arms tactical turn based game became having a super heavy and skyshield in every game ever. AT needs fresh blood but it needs people to play the game for what it is, not enter it on false pretenses. The player that only want to play with their 3 warlords every game, so to speak. I've got a pretty fleshed out battlegroup, I'd say im comfortable anywhere between about 1000-2000, outside that on the low end or high I'm just not that interested. But I can be flexible and make battlegroups work in that framework, I've also magnetized everything weaponry for flexibility.
But I'm optimistic it won't be some massive model, I think it will actually be scale 10 like a warlord, just hoping we don't get another porphyrion moment.
I've been wondering why I hated Knights and other Super-Heavies in 6th-8th edition, and probably 9th if I tried, was that they're all a big chunk of points all balled up into an uninteresting lump - something that Epic Space Marine did well, in my opinion at least, was chopping Titans up into tank or infantry-squad-sized chunks, so you could shoot off weapons or shields or whatever (the problem being it was always better to decapitate the enemy Titan, or blow its reactor...). Having a massive model that combines the advantages of 2+ other models while not retaining any interesting limits would be bad, but I get the impression the new AT at least as the machinery to overcome that.
A non-Nemesis Warbringer that takes elements from that old concept sketch would make me a very happy chappie. A bigger-than-a-Warlord-but-not-an-Imperator would be less welcome, since I'd have to rewrite the fluff for my Legio to allow it and I quite like the fluff as-is.
Interested to see more anyway, so the teaser has done its job.
EDIT: And TBH I wish they'd hurry up and do some Build Your Own Maniple rules like they did with Legios. I don't even care if the bonuses they let you pick aren't very good, I just want efficient ways to include exactly the engines I want in my force, which is difficult if you want an a-typical mixture.
Yodhrin wrote: A non-Nemesis Warbringer that takes elements from that old concept sketch would make me a very happy chappie. A bigger-than-a-Warlord-but-not-an-Imperator would be less welcome, since I'd have to rewrite the fluff for my Legio to allow it and I quite like the fluff as-is.
Interested to see more anyway, so the teaser has done its job.
EDIT: And TBH I wish they'd hurry up and do some Build Your Own Maniple rules like they did with Legios. I don't even care if the bonuses they let you pick aren't very good, I just want efficient ways to include exactly the engines I want in my force, which is difficult if you want an a-typical mixture.
You could include it as a support titan from another Legio...
Yodhrin wrote: A bigger-than-a-Warlord-but-not-an-Imperator would be less welcome, since I'd have to rewrite the fluff for my Legio to allow it and I quite like the fluff as-is.
Don't forget the bigger-than-a-Warlord price tag that would come with it.
Yodhrin wrote: EDIT: And TBH I wish they'd hurry up and do some Build Your Own Maniple rules like they did with Legios. I don't even care if the bonuses they let you pick aren't very good, I just want efficient ways to include exactly the engines I want in my force, which is difficult if you want an a-typical mixture.
Excellent point here, and one I hadn't really considered before.
Yes, "Make Your Own Maniple" would be a good addition, though I don't really see them doing it till there are a couple more Titan classes out there.
Until then, there's just too much incentive to continue doing 3-4 more Maniples per book.
That hip armour/crotch plate pic is a dead giveaway that it's going to be bigger than a warlord.
1. The warlord crotch-plate is similar in design but with only two separate layers; the warbringer also has this but it's second plate is much smaller.
2. The knee armour plates on reaver, warbringer and warlord represent a progression of that ablative armour panel with it getting bigger and nearer the hip as the size increases: this 'hip armour' preview would fit onto the end of that series.
3. Both the warbringer and the warlord titans have motive units on either side of the 'waist' extraneous to the ablative armour panels and in this we can see this same design feature, but integrated into and within an ablative armour layer.
i don't see them intentionally bucking design themes like these
SirDonlad wrote: That hip armour/crotch plate pic is a dead giveaway that it's going to be bigger than a warlord.
1. The warlord crotch-plate is similar in design but with only two separate layers; the warbringer also has this but it's second plate is much smaller.
2. The knee armour plates on reaver, warbringer and warlord represent a progression of that ablative armour panel with it getting bigger and nearer the hip as the size increases: this 'hip armour' preview would fit onto the end of that series.
3. Both the warbringer and the warlord titans have motive units on either side of the 'waist' extraneous to the ablative armour panels and in this we can see this same design feature, but integrated into and within an ablative armour layer.
i don't see them intentionally bucking design themes like these
The vibe i get is it has a rather squat torso, like more in line with warhound/reaver's my head is in my stomach design than wargbringer or warlord's more robust shoulder build out. The best visual evidence I feel for it being bigger than warlord is the weapons and weapon arms seem "big" or thicker than a warlord at least where it meets the arm/shoulder.
SirDonlad wrote: That hip armour/crotch plate pic is a dead giveaway that it's going to be bigger than a warlord.
1. The warlord crotch-plate is similar in design but with only two separate layers; the warbringer also has this but it's second plate is much smaller.
2. The knee armour plates on reaver, warbringer and warlord represent a progression of that ablative armour panel with it getting bigger and nearer the hip as the size increases: this 'hip armour' preview would fit onto the end of that series.
3. Both the warbringer and the warlord titans have motive units on either side of the 'waist' extraneous to the ablative armour panels and in this we can see this same design feature, but integrated into and within an ablative armour layer.
i don't see them intentionally bucking design themes like these
The vibe i get is it has a rather squat torso, like more in line with warhound/reaver's my head is in my stomach design than wargbringer or warlord's more robust should build out. The best visual evidence I feel for it being bigger than warlord is the weapons and weapon arms seem "big" or thicker than a warlord at least where it meets the arm/shoulder.
Agreed. I’m not really getting a height vibe from what we’ve seen. Something akin to
The Siege Titan was mentioned in Titandeath - "among the largest class of Imperial Titan, being larger and heavier than a Warlord, and is designed specifically to tear down enemy fortifications. The Titan's hand armaments are a Disruption Field-covered wrecking ball and multi-headed drill."
The Punisher is from "The Beast Must Die" - "The Punisher-class titan is a rare, tri-legged pattern of Imperial Titan. The Punisher-class Titan, the Modus Destructor, was armed with twin tezlan accelerators with under-slung plasma annihilators and was deployed to the planet of Ullanor during the War of the Beast to defend the Mechanicus command center on the planet."
The vibe i get is it has a rather squat torso, like more in line with warhound/reaver's my head is in my stomach design than wargbringer or warlord's more robust shoulder build out. The best visual evidence I feel for it being bigger than warlord is the weapons and weapon arms seem "big" or thicker than a warlord at least where it meets the arm/shoulder.
Yep, I think the body is likely to be more squat looking at it, the reactor air intakes being side by side rather than one above the other also suggests that.
The hip joint also looks bulkier and more complex than previous titans, almost looks like there is a double joint there with an extra metal piece between the thigh and crotch section with possibly a set of pistons either side of it, but can't make out enough detail to be sure.
I still can't work out what is going on with that front armour panel though, the angles on it just don't look quite right to match up with either the chest or crotch, but maybe the photo is just at a really bad angle. I do like the fact that they've taken a cue from that old piece of artwork, I remember seeing that used in White Dwarf in the first preview of the original AT game and I much preferred the look over the warlord, so was disappointed that a model never showed up.
Strange that they're giving us a new titan before the Warbringer variant isn't it though? Hey maybe they'll give us two new titans at the same time, that would be nice.
JWBS wrote: Strange that they're giving us a new titan before the Warbringer variant isn't it though? Hey maybe they'll give us two new titans at the same time, that would be nice.
Could be the Warbringer variant ends up being a resin add on maybe, or they just decided not to preview it as we've already seen the 40k version and it is just a weapon swap (with maybe a few different cosmetic details thrown in).
Spent some more time looking at the images and am seeing more design cues suggestive of the new titan being larger than the warlord.
Spoiler:
1. the circular vents in the top two stills are the same design as the ones on the front of the void sheild stacks on a warlord except the warlord ones have less slats (the preview version has five) and less defention to those slats - the part-shroud over the top of the vent is consistent. 2.the leftmost plasma weapon has the bottom of an ablative armour panel at the top of that still which is protecting the 'upper arm' articulation - this feature is only found on the warlord. the warbringer has extra panels near that area, but they are connected to the shoulder armour,. not directly to the 'skeleton'. 3. the hip articulation is much more advanced that any titan released to date - this preview type is double articulated on both sides! 4. the shape of the red ablative armour panels in the top pair of stills mimics the shape of that found on the warbringer but in this version we see 'rivets' on the surrounding edging but we also see that this version has a raised edge or rim to it.
increased elaborate detail comes with increased scale.
If i was going off the deep end i would be calling this a nemesis class warlord or maybe the first centre-line weapon mount variant where the 'head' is moved up onto the top of the carapace to make way for a Deathstrike Cannon..
My vote is larger than Warlord, just because we've heard the team discuss new Titans as 'tweeners, and I think the slot above Warlord may have been mentioned at some point.
Doesn't help my Ember Wolves at all, and it probably won't be something I'd add to my burgeoning True Messengers either. But it'd be very cool to have a new Titan in the game..
SamusDrake wrote: The new issue of White Dwarf( 460 ) includes a 4-page guide to getting the most out of the maniples.
Would you say worth pickling up or no?
No, it's literally explaining what the different maniple types are and how to use them. So written for very new or inexperienced players. There's no new rules in the magazine.
Unless you want to collect every WD article on AT ever written, I wouldn't bother.
In a nutshell, don't buy it just for that one article. Its nice to have something about AT in the magazine these days, but you can just zip over to Goonhammer for tactics all the same.
Indeed. The last preview was a bit annoying after a long year of waiting, so hopefully we'll not only see that titan in full but also an accompanying book too.
xttz wrote: Don't think they've shown any AT stuff in online previews like this. However the next Engine Kill article is due next week, so fingers crossed...
I thought they've revealed Knights and splatbooks before?
xttz wrote: Don't think they've shown any AT stuff in online previews like this. However the next Engine Kill article is due next week, so fingers crossed...
I thought they've revealed Knights and splatbooks before?
Yeah they have. And the new Titan was teased in literally the last preview they hyped up.
Probably going to be a release of the firewasps transfers, new titan, book( for its maniples ) and the Warbringer variant.
Last years knight releases were disappointing, so either an FAQ to improve the current knights or a new Dominus plastic kit would be more than welcome.
Probably going to be a release of the firewasps transfers, new titan, book( for its maniples ) and the Warbringer variant.
Last years knight releases were disappointing, so either an FAQ to improve the current knights or a new Dominus plastic kit would be more than welcome.
Lol. They're showing the new Titan, and that's it The other 8 things you listed, not happening.
Probably going to be a release of the firewasps transfers, new titan, book( for its maniples ) and the Warbringer variant.
Last years knight releases were disappointing, so either an FAQ to improve the current knights or a new Dominus plastic kit would be more than welcome.
Don't overhype the previews. That tends to lead to Disappointment Avenue.
They tend to be small, and particularly now, the preview can be for things that are months off from release.
They were always terrible with illustrated scales, although their written scales have stayed fairly consistent from the original AT to the current one.
I love Mark Gibbons' work, but this one was a little ridiculous.
Don't overhype the previews. That tends to lead to Disappointment Avenue.
They tend to be small, and particularly now, the preview can be for things that are months off from release.
Knights aside, I wouldn't say thats overhyping. But on the other hand, I must agree on the "when" as Titanicus has a rather annoying track record of being an after thought, even in normal times.
Hellebore wrote: They were always terrible with illustrated scales, although their written scales have stayed fairly consistent from the original AT to the current one.
I love Mark Gibbons' work, but this one was a little ridiculous.
Nah, that’s a perfectly normal Reaver; it’s the town that’s off. You see, that image depicts the invasion of Minopolis IIIf the garden moon and personal palace of the Governor of Minopolis III. The ruined cityscape is actually one of several miniaturised duplicates of cities on Minopolis IIIb-d that the governor commissioned to aid in planning and surveillance.
Various groups seem to be under the impression that GW's releasing an Imperator. I'm very sceptical as IMO an Imperator would just be an auto-win going off the fluff.
I'm going with an Apocalypse Titan - bigger than a Warlord but definitely a Battle Titan. Expect Nemesis but bigger. Enough Firepower to flatten a shielded Reaver in a turn with a bit of luck. Possibly Emperor Class Weapon on the Carapace
Its not an imperator for me. No steps on the feet or doors for infantry - legs are supposed to be troop carrying aren't they. Update of the old drawing as above and probably a heavier variant than the warlord
In the fluff a bunch of Knight Errant from House Devine obliterated the Imperator Paragon of Terra within seconds and still had time to escape the nuclear blast of its demise.
Guess that one didn't have enough armors and turrets to defend itself.
Quick & dirty, proportions likely off but this should give a rough idea, pretty excited, I hope well' see more (I know "hope" ...), my wallet is dying already ... again ...
It's definitely (probably) based on that artwork, you can see the other knee doohicky on the schematic in the upper left. It is that same perforated dome thing. And it might have the weird double-hip thing.
That's a deep cut, a Titan based on a one-off drawing from the late 80's!
Edit: I took another look at the pictures, I think the piece I circled in red is the same part in both pictures, with the titan being shot at different angles
How big will this titan be is an excellent question. I believe it might be bigger than the warlord.
Making the assumption that the two elements I point to in the following picture have the same dimensions as on the Warlord, I applied a rule of three (using powerpoint and excel). I arrive at a width of approximately 10cm and a height of approximately 15- 16.5cm. The lower part of the carapace would be 1.5cm wide, the height of the lower part of the leg would be 7cm. I am not taking into account any distorsions effects, so it is just an "educated" guess.
I'm really curious as to how big it will be. Wait & see.
Fraggle wrote: Its not an imperator for me. No steps on the feet or doors for infantry - legs are supposed to be troop carrying aren't they. Update of the old drawing as above and probably a heavier variant than the warlord
Yeah, you could be right on this one.
Not seeing a weapon on its carapace aside from the AA-gun, which makes me wonder if its Warlord size, but its armament is roughly on par with a Warbringer. Difference might be that it doesn't have a carapace weapon but instead two warlord-grade arm cannons, and very tough armour - with loads of little close-range guns. Probably a titan for sitting on an objective and being a royal pain to budge.
But it'll be interesting to see the full model on Saturday. The leg detail looks really good.
Heck,, I could almost not care what it is,, I am just overjoyed that we are finally getting a Titan for Titanicus instead of more knights,, knights are cool and all but this game is not called Knightanicus.....
Can I briefly express the sincere hope that this is just the stand-out show piece to start this year’s releases with a bang, and we will also get a roadmap to a) more Titan classes and b) rules for corrupted and possessed titans?
You're all forgetting a key ingredient here. Regardless of class, rules, balance, fluff everything.......................... This Titan relaese will be whatever GW beleive will sell a lot of and have re-useability with variants of. The missing ingredient is £££. It's whatever they beleive will make them the most £££.
Also, it's going to be made from plastic guys. I'm betting this won't be a resin or pewter titan. It's a plastic titan and they wan't to make money from it, as much money as possible.
If it is a imperator then they’ve intentionally left off the castle, so major points against it there. It just genrally doesn’t match the modern art for imperators.
That said, GW have historically framed themselves as a model company first, and in this case I’m 1000% with them on that. I want to have an imperator model sooner or later, and I don’t really care what effect it would have on the associated game either way.
Imperators aren’t a health of the game consideration, they’re a “I want to own an imperator” consideration. A health of the game consideration would be finally getting on releasing a non-mirror match faction so we can diversify the meta and playerbase.
On the Facebook page, I was going to post a "Reset the clock" meme for all the "It's an Imperator" posts but I quickly realized I'd be resetting the clock so often the damned thing wouldn't be able to tell time any more.
Since this model appears to be based on concept art for the Warlord, the most likely prospect is a Nemesis Warlord, possibly a siege Titan of some sort. If so, the main gun would likely be a Hellstorm Cannon since it's already carrying what looks like a Plasma Annihilator. Yes, it could still be a Warbringer variant but I think that's unlikely given the significant changes in armor and overall style.
Some people have suggested it could be a Nightgaunt but you need maneuverability to get in close enough to use the CC weapon that variant is known for. The armor arrangement in the pictures suggest this Titan isn't exactly nimble.
If it isn't a Nemesis Warlord then it might be used as the Executor class Titan. Other than the one entry about Ullanor Prime, the narrative is wide open for GW to use.
Finally, there is the possibility that we're being snookered. That the pictures don't belong to a single model. In this scenario the legs belong to one while the shoulder belongs to a different one. While I'd love to see two models released, I think that's most likely wishful thinking on my part. Even so, it's still more plausible than an Imperator.
I've seen a few people say that sketch from G&E is a Warlord but I have that book and nowhere does it say that the sketch is a Warlord. Why do you say this sketch is a Warlord? Is there an interview where he says it's a Warlord or something? (I know he's done plenty of interviews where he's discussed his art, that's the only thing I can think of where he may have expounded on this particular piece).
Interesting. If you look at the “blueprint” in the teaser image you can just make out the second connection between the hips and knee, just like the sketch. Now I can’t wait to see what the left “knee pad” is; maybe a missile launcher or something?
JWBS wrote: I've seen a few people say that sketch from G&E is a Warlord but I have that book and nowhere does it say that the sketch is a Warlord. Why do you say this sketch is a Warlord? Is there an interview where he says it's a Warlord or something? (I know he's done plenty of interviews where he's discussed his art, that's the only thing I can think of where he may have expounded on this particular piece).
Its one of the original art pieces for Adeptus Titanicus, before the first kit settled on the beetleback design. Not sure if it was ever explicitly linked to the Warlord name though.
It is pretty cool to see more of these deep dives to take ancient art and update them to fit in the modern/functional titan styling
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'm curious and a bit wallet fearful if they have simultaneously designed this new titan for AT and 40k scale
Yep, I'm wondering that, I initially thought the latest preview image looked more like 40k scale looking at the armour, but looking again at the detail of the interior knee I think it's probably AT scale, though the level of detail does help to suggest that it is definitely a large AT model. Will definitely be hard to resist a 40k scale version if it exists. The level of design work required for a new Titan makes me think that they'd be likely to design for 40k as well, as I get the impression that Titans are actually pretty big sellers for FW (my release day Warbringer is numbered in the 200's so they were confident enough to cast up a fair number straight off).
I've also seen the mention of the Nightgaunt, but that doesn't really work unless they've just taken the name and changed the fluff, as, as far as I can see the Nightgaunt is described as a fast close combat Titan, whereas this does not look at all fast and doesn't have any close combat weapons that we have seen, though of course there could be more weapon options than just the twin plasma weapons we've seen so far.
That original artwork was my favourite Titan design back when I first saw it in WD 106, advertising the upcoming release of Adeptus Titanicus, so really exciting to finally see it (or something very much like it) as a model, never thought we'd actually get knee guns (even though they do seem to make quite a lot of sense (in a 40k way) for dealing with smaller targets).
edit - I'm also wondering what the little bit of detail is in the very top right of the new image, almost looks like something curving down and round from the back of the waist section, as the position doesn't look quite right for part of the opposite leg.
edit - I'm also wondering what the little bit of detail is in the very top right of the new image, almost looks like something curving down and round from the back of the waist section, as the position doesn't look quite right for part of the opposite leg.
I think that might be the tip of the lower barrel of that weird quad-plasma nightmare gun. It may have just crept into the image.
2 main arm guns, 2 upper arm guns, 2 point defence las cannons in the chest, 4 AA guns, 2 knee guns, the carapace missile launcher and I can see at least one rear point defence gun (I assume it has at least 2 though if not more)
JWBS wrote: It's massive. I bought a couple of 40K Knights to build my Imperators, but it looks like that won't be big enough now due to the scale of this thing.
Imperator 55m, warlord 33. So imperator should be about 66% bigger than warlord. 40k knights haven't been right size ever
Truly a beautiful behemoth. I was iffy on the Nemesis Warbringer when it first came out and it grew on me - this thing is just a really fresh design straight out of the gate. I dunno, I'm in love. Question is how many is the least unreasonable number for me to purchase...
And thank god it's in plastic, because after building Forge world titanicus knights and aeronautica planes, I would probably quit this hobby.
Not really feeling it, it feels bigger for bigger sake not like any one aspect of the design requires it to be bigger than a warlord. The one head choice rivals the warbringer for worst titan head, its just too close to medieval heavy infantry head, like too on the nose. It feels too much like this:
I so hope they do a 40k scale version as I think there could be some really nice details tucked away in that body, so much stuff going on! Though admittedly, the price is likely to be horrific, could imagine it easily hitting the £2k mark!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crablezworth wrote: Not really feeling it, it feels bigger for bigger sake not like any one aspect of the design requires it to be bigger than a warlord. The one head choice rivals the warbringer for worst titan head, its just too close to medieval heavy infantry head, like too on the nose.
I like that head option, assuming you mean the one in the photo collage, not so keen on the main one shown (though would use it for variety), really don't like the look of the one the book cover, but maybe it would look better in a different picture.
Just looking again at the point defence weapons in the chest, just assumed they were lascannons, but looking closely, they actually appear to be battlecannons!
I'm entirely satisfied with the Warmaster. Not as elegant or magnificent as the Warlord, less sleek than some of the smaller titans, more hunched and ogrish and brutal looking than anything we have currently. Nice contrast, pretty good addition to the line overall. I expect the Emperator to look a lot more regal and fabulous, which would be great too imo.
lord_blackfang wrote: I hope to god some weaponry is abstracted and we don't have to resolve 14 guns a turn.
Yeah that was a thought I had too, but it leads me to my main thought which is, why does it not visually justify itself? Like till now we haven't seen mismatching weaponry so just seems weird to see like missiles in one leg and a gun in the other. It's got twice the aa guns of the warbringer, but those already do nothing special on the warbringer and just get rolled into ardax.
Also not satisfied with the name, warmaster just doesn't work for me, it's also going to sound weird adjacent to any reference to horus.
Twice? It had the same amount of Hydra flak cannon as Warbringer, and those have no rule in AT, gun can only point upward, there're nothing there to shoot.
Warmaster as a name actually fits for me. We have the scout Warhound, the medium Warbringer, the classic Warlord, now the massive Warmaster, and then the Emperor class Warmonger.
Interesting, it does seem to be exactly the size of an imperator without a top castle. I hope this doesn’t lead to them oversizing the Imperator later.
One though is we don't know the power requirements to fire its main guns; firing both on a turn might mean it can't then use some/many of its support weapons in that same turn due to the power drain. So it might be that its got a fearsome amount of firepower, but has to make key choices in what its firing when.
Oh yeah thats the good stuff New Titan types have been one of the things I've been looking forward to the most ever since the AT reboot was announced, and the Warmaster does not disappoint. Looks like alternate armpit/shoulder guns on the cover of the new book(reminiscent of the old metal Warlords carapace guns). But still the same arm guns, so I guess that's all the options the kit comes with.
Speaking of the book. I guess there will be some new Legio's in there, or are we up to 16 loyalists already? The cover colour scheme is not one I recognise.
Inserting new titans is a little confusing from a lore perspective though, purely in the sense that we do know variants have been hovering around in the vague conceptual aether for a long time, but what I want to know is some hard info on comparative rarity.
Have we been largely only seeing four Titan types all these years because the warbringer and warmonger are far, far rarer, or are we just to shut up and accept a retcon that these were just off screen in hundreds of sources talking about titans in action?
changemod wrote: Inserting new titans is a little confusing from a lore perspective though, purely in the sense that we do know variants have been hovering around in the vague conceptual aether for a long time, but what I want to know is some hard info on comparative rarity.
Have we been largely only seeing four Titan types all these years because the warbringer and warmonger are far, far rarer, or are we just to shut up and accept a retcon that these were just off screen in hundreds of sources talking about titans in action?
GW has been retconning in new units that have always been there for like 15 years man
lord_blackfang wrote: I forgot the physical constraints of AT dashboards. Yea probably a lot of those guns won't have individual profiles and dice rolls. Gameplay is saved!
Not to mention it might have a bigger command sheet than normal. but presumably the little guns are "ardex Defensor" types or similar. This thing presumably moves like a brick, so it will need them...
changemod wrote: Inserting new titans is a little confusing from a lore perspective though, purely in the sense that we do know variants have been hovering around in the vague conceptual aether for a long time, but what I want to know is some hard info on comparative rarity.
Have we been largely only seeing four Titan types all these years because the warbringer and warmonger are far, far rarer, or are we just to shut up and accept a retcon that these were just off screen in hundreds of sources talking about titans in action?
GW has been retconning in new units that have always been there for like 15 years man
It’s infinitely more noticeable when you retcon in a vast giant mech than when you retcon in “these space marines have gravity guns!”.
Overread wrote: One though is we don't know the power requirements to fire its main guns; firing both on a turn might mean it can't then use some/many of its support weapons in that same turn due to the power drain. So it might be that its got a fearsome amount of firepower, but has to make key choices in what its firing when.
That would actually mirror the rules of the Plasma Destructors from Epic 2nd edition. If you shot off the plasma destructor, you couldn’t move or shoot any other weapon. It was a devastating weapon though
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, not noted is the new book looks to have new legios in it due to the fact it has Legio Metallica on the front:
Absolutely love the Warmaster, shame about the name though as we already have Warhound, Warlord and Warbringer, wouldn't kill GW to think of something a bit more original.
As for the model however, love it. I agree that it may be better to just simplify the additional weapons into an Ardex-like system. I still doubt they'll eventually release an Imperator however.
On another note, the Warmaster's head on the Loyalist Legios book seems to be different from either of the ones previewed today. I know the previous kits have come with two head designs but not three, are GW giving a hint that there may be different variants of the Warmaster in the future?
It has different armpit-guns too; looks like Warhound turbolasers to me. One of the silhouettes in the video also had different main guns, some sort of triple-barrelled monstrosity.
So definitely another variant out there…
changemod wrote: Inserting new titans is a little confusing from a lore perspective though, purely in the sense that we do know variants have been hovering around in the vague conceptual aether for a long time, but what I want to know is some hard info on comparative rarity.
Have we been largely only seeing four Titan types all these years because the warbringer and warmonger are far, far rarer, or are we just to shut up and accept a retcon that these were just off screen in hundreds of sources talking about titans in action?
GW has been retconning in new units that have always been there for like 15 years man
Exactly. I much prefer it that way. Like when they created the Leman Russ Executioner, it wasn't a case of "This is brand new. There's a guy called Dellisarius Tall, and he invented it, and he's invented loads more stuff, and that's why you have a model of it". No, they just said the Executioner is a variant of the LR, and it's been around forever, and the galaxy is a big place and history is a long time and that's why you're only just seeing it now, and we accepted that because that was better. 40K is just straight up better as a setting than as a storyline.
I think the retcons are something you just have to accept when reading fiction based on a expanding product line. It even happens with supposedly new things like the Primaris, as anything outside there first wave is notably absent from even recent stories.
But even the original AT background noted that the Warhound, Reaver and Warlord were just the most common Titan types.
Valkyrie wrote: Absolutely love the Warmaster, shame about the name though as we already have Warhound, Warlord and Warbringer, wouldn't kill GW to think of something a bit more original.
In the dark future of the 41st millennium there is only war!
But even the original AT background noted that the Warhound, Reaver and Warlord were just the most common Titan types.
We even had some known missing titans with the scout titans that were the pre-cursors of the very light Slaaneshi models (and that still aren't in the game).
I'm ambivalent about this new titan, but mostly because I'm not sure that the game needs something that's even slower than the Warlord.
Valkyrie wrote: Absolutely love the Warmaster, shame about the name though as we already have Warhound, Warlord and Warbringer, wouldn't kill GW to think of something a bit more original.
As for the model however, love it. I agree that it may be better to just simplify the additional weapons into an Ardex-like system. I still doubt they'll eventually release an Imperator however.
On another note, the Warmaster's head on the Loyalist Legios book seems to be different from either of the ones previewed today. I know the previous kits have come with two head designs but not three, are GW giving a hint that there may be different variants of the Warmaster in the future?
The box image shows it's a Warmaster with a specific loadout, which tends to imply there will be another variant in the future (though we're still missing Volcano Warbringer).
Edit - Also just noticed the book shows two laser cannons instead of a launcher for the armpit weapons!
Yeah its been like that for decades and most wargames are the same. Heck if you read BL books there are loads of things that get mentioned which never appear in any of their games all the time. What we see and what we read common stories about are the most common things present in the setting; which doesn't mean that there are not vast legions fighting on hundreds of worlds with different weapons that we've yet to see.
If you don't learn to accept that you'll go nuts with almost any wargame because they all follow that same path of releasing things years if not decades (for the long runners) after launch which have "always been in the setting" just unseen until that time.
Brutal-looking machine, though - how tall do y'all think it'll be, aside from the AA guns?
I estimate it would be between 15 - 16.5cm tall.
Incidentally, the trailer is titled "Attack of the 134ft titan". 134ft approximately equals 41 meters.
Assuming a 2 meter tall space marine would be represented by a 8mm tall model (remember the "scale" discussion that emerged when AT was relaunched in 2018), 41 meters would translate into 164mm.
Curious to see if this holds and if my reasoning earlier in the thread is correct.
Eager to get my hands on the model, the sooner the cooler!
I think it's going to be a decent bit taller than a 40K Knight, even a Castellan style one, and roughly as wide (making it appear a little more slender)
Price maybe around £100 gwrp if we're lucky? Maybe a touch over that (hopefully not over £110. The Gargant at £120 was a disappointment to almost everyone, but that being said, this will probably be larger than a Gargant, which is actually smaller than a Castellan).
Love the Warmaster, but the one thing I'm not crazy about is the paired plasma guns. Hoping there's another arm in the box or some choices, two of the same weapon just isn't as visually interesting, especially when it's oversized plasma-coils as that's my least favorite weapon look.
Prometheum5 wrote: Love the Warmaster, but the one thing I'm not crazy about is the paired plasma guns. Hoping there's another arm in the box or some choices, two of the same weapon just isn't as visually interesting, especially when it's oversized plasma-coils as that's my least favorite weapon look.
I always paint plasma coils in copper, like they’re conductive material that directs the “flow” of the plasma. I always find the bright blue “this is plasma!” look a bit jarring.
changemod wrote:
Inserting new titans is a little confusing from a lore perspective though, purely in the sense that we do know variants have been hovering around in the vague conceptual aether for a long time, but what I want to know is some hard info on comparative rarity.
Have we been largely only seeing four Titan types all these years because the warbringer and warmonger are far, far rarer, or are we just to shut up and accept a retcon that these were just off screen in hundreds of sources talking about titans in action?
This surprised me a little as well. GW and FW have been leaving breadcrumbs about other Titans all throughout their books. Some are probably throw-away one-offs just to make the universe seem bigger, but there are consistent mentions of some Titan classes (the Rapier is mentioned pretty regularly). The Warmaster, as far as I know, is not one of them. Seems a bit of a surprise that something this big hasn't been mentioned at all!
Still, I am not complaining. Looking for logic in the wartorn darkness of the 41st millennium kinda sucks the fun out of of a ridiculous made-up world where giant robots kick the snot out of each other. Perhaps, lots of people saw it and it was further away then they thought and ended up believing it was just a runty Warbringer and never recorded it.
I think I figured out what bothers me about the Warmaster: lack of carapace swoop.
With the other classes we saw no carapace (Warhound), just a shelll (Reaver), or hardpoints mounted on a beetle-like carapace (Warbringer and Warlord).
I may need to find a way to mod the carapace with a little more flair. Maybe enlongated cooling towers to the rear?
Prometheum5 wrote: Love the Warmaster, but the one thing I'm not crazy about is the paired plasma guns. Hoping there's another arm in the box or some choices, two of the same weapon just isn't as visually interesting, especially when it's oversized plasma-coils as that's my least favorite weapon look.
I always paint plasma coils in copper, like they’re conductive material that directs the “flow” of the plasma. I always find the bright blue “this is plasma!” look a bit jarring.
That is exactly what I do. The blue glow completely ruins the scale look. I keep the copper just for plasma coils so they stand out from gold or brass bits.
Mr_Rose wrote: It has different armpit-guns too; looks like Warhound turbolasers to me. One of the silhouettes in the video also had different main guns, some sort of triple-barrelled monstrosity.
So definitely another variant out there…
Ah ok the missile launchers being apocalypse missile launchers makes more sense of the overall design and thus lack of large shoulder guns.
In effect the Warmaster Titan mounts five “Titan weapon” slots, but avoids having the fourth and fifth be quite as large as they could be in order for them to share space with defensive anti-air platforms to ward off things like say, the Manta. Theoretically without the anti air taking up space those guns could have been Warlord arm guns.
It’s interesting, makes me wonder what they’re going to do with the cathedral atop the Imperator when they do it... And make no mistake, going by current artwork of imperators standing next to Warlords, the Warmaster is absolutely around the same size when you don’t include the spires.
It’s always been a very strange design from an offensive standpoint- None of the guns mounted on a Imperator’s cathedral seem to be even the size of warhound arm weaponry.
I always just told myself that the two main Imperator weapons together are the equal of four Warlod weapons, plus then you have a couple of warhound sized weapons up top and several smaller guns scattered around elsewhere (crotch, knees, back) making the Imperator a lot more powerful than a WL even before considering the troop capacity and other logistical stuff included with the Imperator.
changemod wrote: Inserting new titans is a little confusing from a lore perspective though, purely in the sense that we do know variants have been hovering around in the vague conceptual aether for a long time, but what I want to know is some hard info on comparative rarity.
Have we been largely only seeing four Titan types all these years because the warbringer and warmonger are far, far rarer, or are we just to shut up and accept a retcon that these were just off screen in hundreds of sources talking about titans in action?
Ugh - conceptualizing the addition of new stuff as "retcons" is how we ended up with nu40K and AoS where everything they add to the games is brand-new and plot advancing, and the whole thing just becomes an endless treadmill where a cool addition only seems to exist with any focus for a brief moment before the next dozen new things have come along and the cool thing is barely mentioned again(because why would they, if you were going to buy it you would have at the time, and now they want you to buy the new thing).
The framing for the setting was supposed to be the idea of an ever-expanding window - we could see into this other world, but only part of it, and only the bits within the field of view that were in focus. When they "added" "new" things they were simply revealing parts of the setting that had always been there. Of course, you can cock up with that concept just as easily as with any other, but in principle it works perfectly fine.
As to Senor Chonkus - I like it a lot. I'd absolutely love it if it were more in the Warbringer/Warlord size range, but they've brought that old Jes concept sketch into the modern design language pretty flawlessly IMO. Whether I buy one or not...eh. I'd have to rewrite my fluff as I've said before, and planning & executing a couple of organ harvesting murders to fund the thing is a lot of effort...
Prometheum5 wrote: Love the Warmaster, but the one thing I'm not crazy about is the paired plasma guns. Hoping there's another arm in the box or some choices, two of the same weapon just isn't as visually interesting, especially when it's oversized plasma-coils as that's my least favorite weapon look.
I always paint plasma coils in copper, like they’re conductive material that directs the “flow” of the plasma. I always find the bright blue “this is plasma!” look a bit jarring.
That is exactly what I do. The blue glow completely ruins the scale look. I keep the copper just for plasma coils so they stand out from gold or brass bits.
That's an entirely valid approach, but the blue glow thing isn't impossible or wrong in-scale, it could be something akin to Chernekov radiation:
Tavis75 wrote: I so hope they do a 40k scale version as I think there could be some really nice details tucked away in that body, so much stuff going on! Though admittedly, the price is likely to be horrific, could imagine it easily hitting the £2k mark!
changemod wrote: Inserting new titans is a little confusing from a lore perspective though, purely in the sense that we do know variants have been hovering around in the vague conceptual aether for a long time, but what I want to know is some hard info on comparative rarity.
Have we been largely only seeing four Titan types all these years because the warbringer and warmonger are far, far rarer, or are we just to shut up and accept a retcon that these were just off screen in hundreds of sources talking about titans in action?
Ugh - conceptualizing the addition of new stuff as "retcons" is how we ended up with nu40K and AoS where everything they add to the games is brand-new and plot advancing, and the whole thing just becomes an endless treadmill where a cool addition only seems to exist with any focus for a brief moment before the next dozen new things have come along and the cool thing is barely mentioned again(because why would they, if you were going to buy it you would have at the time, and now they want you to buy the new thing).
The framing for the setting was supposed to be the idea of an ever-expanding window - we could see into this other world, but only part of it, and only the bits within the field of view that were in focus. When they "added" "new" things they were simply revealing parts of the setting that had always been there. Of course, you can cock up with that concept just as easily as with any other, but in principle it works perfectly fine.
As to Senor Chonkus - I like it a lot. I'd absolutely love it if it were more in the Warbringer/Warlord size range, but they've brought that old Jes concept sketch into the modern design language pretty flawlessly IMO. Whether I buy one or not...eh. I'd have to rewrite my fluff as I've said before, and planning & executing a couple of organ harvesting murders to fund the thing is a lot of effort...
As I was Trying to communicate, a fifth (or sixth) “common” Titan pattern would be a change on an extremely large scale that’s kinda weird in context of existing fiction. You kinda notice when a Warhound walks past way more than you notice that “oh gosh, some of those marines had gravity guns this whole time!”
You’re the second person who’s gone “Ugh it’s a setting not a story”, and frankly I agree? Of course treating 40k as if it’s one big story is how we get incoherent gibberish like Abaddon cutting the entire galaxy in half. And that’s the angle I was coming from because I am concerned with sufficiently large breaches of setting consistency as to take me out of things for a moment.
So yeah, I was wanting to know if this never before seen Titan type was an infrequent anomaly or a semi common mainline unit that it’s a little weird to have not seen towering over battlefields, visible from dozens of miles away, in any number of deployments in any number of prior sources.
The thing that excited me most about the reveal was seeing Legio Metalica on the book cover art. I was surprised that we'd got this long without them getting rules considering they did transfer sheets a while back. Pleased to see my chosen faction of god-engines getting a bit of attention!
The Warmaster, I'm not quite sure what I think of it yet, but that's okay because it's also what I expected. Generally new titan designs need to bounce around my head for a little while before I warm up to them. The Warbringer was the same, and I can remember when FW first launched the Reaver and I thought it looked silly - and nowadays I absolutely love them. I certainly think the head shown on the book cover art looks better than the two painted variants that they've shown us, and it would go a long way towards making the model look right for me, so I hope you get that head in the kit. On the whole though, very pleased that they're expanding out into new titan classes, and I hope to see a few more.
Tavis75 wrote: I so hope they do a 40k scale version as I think there could be some really nice details tucked away in that body, so much stuff going on! Though admittedly, the price is likely to be horrific, could imagine it easily hitting the £2k mark!
How big would that be...?
Wrap your baby brother/infant child in tinfoil as a proxy…
I'm not actually sure if the Warmaster rules are going to be in the Loyalist legios book. It seems to be just a compilation of the Loyalist rules (hopefully they will include and reprint the loyalist strategems and titans of legend in there)
There's no mention of any new rules or maniples which would include this new beast (hopefully they call them heavy maniples, so Myrmadon gets some company. And Extermigus really should have been one)
Another potential is that the Heretic compendium will come out later alongside the Belicosa warbringer so that variant is released.
So yeah, I was wanting to know if this never before seen Titan type was an infrequent anomaly or a semi common mainline unit that it’s a little weird to have not seen towering over battlefields, visible from dozens of miles away, in any number of deployments in any number of prior sources.
You wrote a whole post saying you understand the need for a setting with necessary imaginative leeway and then in the last two lines you've essentially said "Also I want retcons". I don't get it.
Tavis75 wrote: I so hope they do a 40k scale version as I think there could be some really nice details tucked away in that body, so much stuff going on! Though admittedly, the price is likely to be horrific, could imagine it easily hitting the £2k mark!
Just looking again at the point defence weapons in the chest, just assumed they were lascannons, but looking closely, they actually appear to be battlecannons!
I hope not in 40k scale for a while. My custom cabinet just fits a warlord, this monster would be too big. And looking at the legs, they look to include some of the most annoying elements of the Reaver and Warbringer, plus the new internal supports. Wonder if it has a rear patio like the warlord?
So yeah, I was wanting to know if this never before seen Titan type was an infrequent anomaly or a semi common mainline unit that it’s a little weird to have not seen towering over battlefields, visible from dozens of miles away, in any number of deployments in any number of prior sources.
You wrote a whole post saying you understand the need for a setting with necessary imaginative leeway and then in the last two lines you've essentially said "Also I want retcons". I don't get it.
No? I said “Also I want to know when something is jarring”.
So yeah, I was wanting to know if this never before seen Titan type was an infrequent anomaly or a semi common mainline unit that it’s a little weird to have not seen towering over battlefields, visible from dozens of miles away, in any number of deployments in any number of prior sources.
You wrote a whole post saying you understand the need for a setting with necessary imaginative leeway and then in the last two lines you've essentially said "Also I want retcons". I don't get it.
No? I said “Also I want to know when something is jarring”.
it’s a little weird to have not seen towering over battlefields, visible from dozens of miles away, in any number of deployments in any number of prior sources.
The reason we don't have fluff detailing people's experiences seeing this towering over battlefields, visible for miles around, and we don't have it from umpteen different verified sources at different times is because this model didn't exist in our universe, so the writers didn't write about it in the 40K universe. Now, I know you know this, you aren't delusional or psychotic. A real world explanation of this isn't what you're asking for in order to make this feel less jarring to you. What you want is an "in-universe" explanation as to why we don't have fluff of this guy towering over dozens of battlefields throughout the timeline. You want a "This titan is super rare guyz" or "some crazy techie just rediscovered the blueprints for this and they're cranking them out again". In essence, you want a retcon (or at least you want story mode as opposed to setting) is what you wrote there, whether you know it or not, either that or I'm just misunderstanding you entirely but I've read it several times and it really seems like you want some in-universe fluff to make this less jarring for you.
changemod wrote: Inserting new titans is a little confusing from a lore perspective though, purely in the sense that we do know variants have been hovering around in the vague conceptual aether for a long time, but what I want to know is some hard info on comparative rarity.
Have we been largely only seeing four Titan types all these years because the warbringer and warmonger are far, far rarer, or are we just to shut up and accept a retcon that these were just off screen in hundreds of sources talking about titans in action?
Ugh - conceptualizing the addition of new stuff as "retcons" is how we ended up with nu40K and AoS where everything they add to the games is brand-new and plot advancing, and the whole thing just becomes an endless treadmill where a cool addition only seems to exist with any focus for a brief moment before the next dozen new things have come along and the cool thing is barely mentioned again(because why would they, if you were going to buy it you would have at the time, and now they want you to buy the new thing).
The framing for the setting was supposed to be the idea of an ever-expanding window - we could see into this other world, but only part of it, and only the bits within the field of view that were in focus. When they "added" "new" things they were simply revealing parts of the setting that had always been there. Of course, you can cock up with that concept just as easily as with any other, but in principle it works perfectly fine.
As to Senor Chonkus - I like it a lot. I'd absolutely love it if it were more in the Warbringer/Warlord size range, but they've brought that old Jes concept sketch into the modern design language pretty flawlessly IMO. Whether I buy one or not...eh. I'd have to rewrite my fluff as I've said before, and planning & executing a couple of organ harvesting murders to fund the thing is a lot of effort...
As I was Trying to communicate, a fifth (or sixth) “common” Titan pattern would be a change on an extremely large scale that’s kinda weird in context of existing fiction. You kinda notice when a Warhound walks past way more than you notice that “oh gosh, some of those marines had gravity guns this whole time!”
You’re the second person who’s gone “Ugh it’s a setting not a story”, and frankly I agree? Of course treating 40k as if it’s one big story is how we get incoherent gibberish like Abaddon cutting the entire galaxy in half. And that’s the angle I was coming from because I am concerned with sufficiently large breaches of setting consistency as to take me out of things for a moment.
So yeah, I was wanting to know if this never before seen Titan type was an infrequent anomaly or a semi common mainline unit that it’s a little weird to have not seen towering over battlefields, visible from dozens of miles away, in any number of deployments in any number of prior sources.
Fair enough, apologies for misunderstanding you.
I expect the line they'll take is that these "intermediate" engines are fairly commonplace during the Crusade/Heresy era, but become very uncommon and even rare afterwards. There are enough engine conflicts during the Heresy that the fact they haven't "focused" on these newer ones before now can be excused, and a lot of pre-Heresy tech vanishes entirely or turns into priceless relics even just a couple of thousand years later, so by the time we get to most of the other non-Heresy engine conflicts we've seen before they'll probably end up being things most Legios have one or two of if any at all.
That said, I would agree that they're going to have to stop pretty soon unless they want it to start getting a bit ridiculous, in lore terms or otherwise. The Imperator - which I suppose is inevitable now given the size of this chap - plus the Rapier gives seven "basic" chassis, I think that's probably enough especially given potential for variants(non-Nemesis Warbringers, for ex). Beyond that any Imperial designs should be hyper specialist engines that were always rare, IMO, and they should crack on with Chaos versions of the existing engines(TBH, they should probably do them sooner rather than later, so they still have one or two Imperial releases in the pipeline for later).
So yeah, I was wanting to know if this never before seen Titan type was an infrequent anomaly or a semi common mainline unit that it’s a little weird to have not seen towering over battlefields, visible from dozens of miles away, in any number of deployments in any number of prior sources.
You wrote a whole post saying you understand the need for a setting with necessary imaginative leeway and then in the last two lines you've essentially said "Also I want retcons". I don't get it.
No? I said “Also I want to know when something is jarring”.
it’s a little weird to have not seen towering over battlefields, visible from dozens of miles away, in any number of deployments in any number of prior sources.
The reason we don't have fluff detailing people's experiences seeing this towering over battlefields, visible for miles around, and we don't have it from umpteen different verified sources at different times is because this model didn't exist in our universe, so the writers didn't write about it in the 40K universe. Now, I know you know this, you aren't delusional or psychotic. A real world explanation of this isn't what you're asking for in order to make this feel less jarring to you. What you want is an "in-universe" explanation as to why we don't have fluff of this guy towering over dozens of battlefields throughout the timeline. You want a "This titan is super rare guyz" or "some crazy techie just rediscovered the blueprints for this and they're cranking them out again". In essence, you want a retcon, is what you wrote there, whether you know it or not, either that or I'm just misunderstanding you entirely but I've read it several times and it really seems like you want some in-universe fluff to make this less jarring for you.
Okay, you seem to not know what retcon actually means. A retcon is sliding something in without a clean and organic explanation that doesn’t change existing details. A retcon would be something with no explanation or an inadequate one.
Anyhow to be perfectly blunt I only really got into this in more detail because I was annoyed at two separate people assuming I was a “the universe is a single story” type rather than a “The universe is a setting in which innumerable stories can take place” type, and was kinda annoyed at that. Before that, I made a fairly simple point that I’d like to know how rare these new types are meant to be so I know if it’s a little weird that they’re showing up now or not. It’s not something I’m overly bothered with, and fully intend to buy this model at the first opportunity.
Personally I find it easiest to just presume that Warmaster is the proper class name, and the occasional mentions of titans that are more powerful than a Warlord, like Imperius Volcanus, called the old Nemesis class like Revoka, or the siege titan Atranican are Warmaster hulls.
I'm more annoyed that the Warlord heavy plasma was called a plasma Annihilator, while the new larger one is the Destructor, when those used to be flipped.
Arbitrator wrote: So are the Loyalist/Traitor books just compendium of the Legios releases across the various books thus far or are they completely new/both?
There's going to be at least some new in there - the Loyal Legions book has Legio Metalica on the cover, and they haven't had rules yet.
MajorWesJanson wrote:I'm not actually sure if the Warmaster rules are going to be in the Loyalist legios book. It seems to be just a compilation of the Loyalist rules (hopefully they will include and reprint the loyalist strategems and titans of legend in there)
There's no mention of any new rules or maniples which would include this new beast (hopefully they call them heavy maniples, so Myrmadon gets some company. And Extermigus really should have been one)
Another potential is that the Heretic compendium will come out later alongside the Belicosa warbringer so that variant is released.
They mentioned the rules for the Warmaster will be available in the box on the command terminal, but I don't think they said anything about maniples including this beast. I guess we'll have more info this coming Tuesday when the Engine Kill article is released.
Arbitrator wrote: So are the Loyalist/Traitor books just compendium of the Legios releases across the various books thus far or are they completely new/both?
Says 16 Legios for loyalist, who currently have 15:
They could be including Legio Tritonis 'Dark Tide' though as a Blackshield legio.
If not, the cover shows a Legio Metalica titan, which doesnt have rules yet and would make 16.
Knight houses, Loyalists have
Donar
Indra
Kaska
Kaushik
Mamaragon
Tazkhar
Orhlacc
Vornherr
Vyronii
Sidus
Taranis
Zavora
Col'khak
Moritain
which looks like 14, but the blurb only lists 12.
So yeah, I was wanting to know if this never before seen Titan type was an infrequent anomaly or a semi common mainline unit that it’s a little weird to have not seen towering over battlefields, visible from dozens of miles away, in any number of deployments in any number of prior sources.
You wrote a whole post saying you understand the need for a setting with necessary imaginative leeway and then in the last two lines you've essentially said "Also I want retcons". I don't get it.
No? I said “Also I want to know when something is jarring”.
it’s a little weird to have not seen towering over battlefields, visible from dozens of miles away, in any number of deployments in any number of prior sources.
The reason we don't have fluff detailing people's experiences seeing this towering over battlefields, visible for miles around, and we don't have it from umpteen different verified sources at different times is because this model didn't exist in our universe, so the writers didn't write about it in the 40K universe. Now, I know you know this, you aren't delusional or psychotic. A real world explanation of this isn't what you're asking for in order to make this feel less jarring to you. What you want is an "in-universe" explanation as to why we don't have fluff of this guy towering over dozens of battlefields throughout the timeline. You want a "This titan is super rare guyz" or "some crazy techie just rediscovered the blueprints for this and they're cranking them out again". In essence, you want a retcon, is what you wrote there, whether you know it or not, either that or I'm just misunderstanding you entirely but I've read it several times and it really seems like you want some in-universe fluff to make this less jarring for you.
Okay, you seem to not know what retcon actually means. A retcon is sliding something in without a clean and organic explanation that doesn’t change existing details. A retcon would be something with no explanation or an inadequate one.
Anyhow to be perfectly blunt I only really got into this in more detail because I was annoyed at two separate people assuming I was a “the universe is a single story” type rather than a “The universe is a setting in which innumerable stories can take place” type, and was kinda annoyed at that. Before that, I made a fairly simple point that I’d like to know how rare these new types are meant to be so I know if it’s a little weird that they’re showing up now or not. It’s not something I’m overly bothered with, and fully intend to buy this model at the first opportunity.
Yeah I know, I realised after I typed that that I had veered off into setting/story vs retcon (retcon has various different definitions btw, the basic google definition being "a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events,..", quite vague and also allowing for the presentation of information). Anyway, I hope we don't see any type of "These are super rare now" exposition because frankly I'm sick of that particular one being used in this setting. I'd honestly prefer they just act like these have always been a thing and just skip the "Now, you may be wondering why we're only just seeing this titan. Well, let me tell you (funny story actually), these are quite rare, as it happens..." thing they often do in these situations.
The head that's previewed on the book cover at least looks the best of the one's shown so far. The one's they're showing just look way too much like this thing, I feel like, like with the warbringer's head, changing that can do a lot to make the model look better overall. I also want to see more of the top and back to see if there's place to glue 6mm servitors and techpriests.
Crablezworth wrote: The head that's previewed on the book cover at least looks the best of the one's shown so far. The one's they're showing just look way too much like this thing, I feel like, like with the warbringer's head, changing that can do a lot to make the model look better overall. I also want to see more of the top and back to see if there's place to glue 6mm servitors and techpriests.
“Way too much like” as if the elongated crusader helmet isn’t one of the best damn heads I’ve seen on an imperial walker.
Tavis75 wrote: I so hope they do a 40k scale version as I think there could be some really nice details tucked away in that body, so much stuff going on! Though admittedly, the price is likely to be horrific, could imagine it easily hitting the £2k mark!
How big would that be...?
Based on the size comparison image, about 24.5 inches (My Warlord is approx 17.75 to the top edge of carapace armour, not including the guns and reactors, though obviously will vary slightly depending on the leg positioning), so it’s not ridiculous. On Facebook the comment from FW was “That would be a huge kit, but who knows what the future may hold.” Which makes it sound fairly likely!
Tavis75 wrote: I so hope they do a 40k scale version as I think there could be some really nice details tucked away in that body, so much stuff going on! Though admittedly, the price is likely to be horrific, could imagine it easily hitting the £2k mark!
Just looking again at the point defence weapons in the chest, just assumed they were lascannons, but looking closely, they actually appear to be battlecannons!
I hope not in 40k scale for a while. My custom cabinet just fits a warlord, this monster would be too big. And looking at the legs, they look to include some of the most annoying elements of the Reaver and Warbringer, plus the new internal supports. Wonder if it has a rear patio like the warlord?
I reckon it will have a patio, could be wrong but I reckon there might be a platform right around the middle just above the stabilisers, the armour there even looks to have crenellations, and seems there is space for a flat open area.
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Dysartes wrote: Did they say what the silver think on the right shin guard (as we look at the screen) is?
I know the scale is off, but it makes be think of a massive incense burner...
In the original concept art I assumed it was a missile launcher of some sort, as the design matches the arm missile launcher, so I imagine something like that, missiles or grenades for clearing ground troops.
Not my cup of tea( way too big ) but it will breath new life into the game.
So would Chaos, Ork, and Eldar titans. Just saying.
Agreed. Adding more and more Imperial (and non-mutated Chaos) Titans is just like Marine bloat. I am still waiting for Eldar and Orks. At least games like BFG made an attempt to include those factions from the beginning.
Otherwise it's a bit "meh" from me and wallet stays closed.
AT I think needs to step into the Chaos line of corrupted titans at the very least. It would be a huge thing for the game to get some chaos titan models and at least shows GW are confident in the game beyond the Imperial fanbase.
What's interesting is that AN already has a lot of xenos to start with and they've even made some xenos ground assets so clearly someone at FW likes Xenos (even if its mostly Tau ).
I'd love to see Tyranids in AT, but I know they will likely be one of the latter forces to get added.
The only bonus is that because titans basically don't change through the ages they can just advance the storyline and all the Imperial titans remain valid. I'd just like to see Chaos and Xenos get a look in before the game has 50 different knights and 30 different titans for the Imperials alone
Overread wrote: AT I think needs to step into the Chaos line of corrupted titans at the very least. It would be a huge thing for the game to get some chaos titan models and at least shows GW are confident in the game beyond the Imperial fanbase.
What's interesting is that AN already has a lot of xenos to start with and they've even made some xenos ground assets so clearly someone at FW likes Xenos (even if its mostly Tau ).
I'd love to see Tyranids in AT, but I know they will likely be one of the latter forces to get added.
The only bonus is that because titans basically don't change through the ages they can just advance the storyline and all the Imperial titans remain valid. I'd just like to see Chaos and Xenos get a look in before the game has 50 different knights and 30 different titans for the Imperials alone
Tyranid Bio-Titans would allow Pacific Rim Kaijiu vs. Jaeger fights.
GW needs to expand back the range of Tyranid weapons from what they had in Epic though as FW's interpretation of Tyranid Titans reduced them to just basically Scything Talons and the generic Bio-Cannon.
Overread wrote: AT I think needs to step into the Chaos line of corrupted titans at the very least. It would be a huge thing for the game to get some chaos titan models and at least shows GW are confident in the game beyond the Imperial fanbase.
Have courage my friend as Defence of Ryza mentions that corrupted titans and renegade knight banners will be covered in future supplements.
Overread wrote: AT I think needs to step into the Chaos line of corrupted titans at the very least. It would be a huge thing for the game to get some chaos titan models and at least shows GW are confident in the game beyond the Imperial fanbase.
What's interesting is that AN already has a lot of xenos to start with and they've even made some xenos ground assets so clearly someone at FW likes Xenos (even if its mostly Tau ).
I'd love to see Tyranids in AT, but I know they will likely be one of the latter forces to get added.
The only bonus is that because titans basically don't change through the ages they can just advance the storyline and all the Imperial titans remain valid. I'd just like to see Chaos and Xenos get a look in before the game has 50 different knights and 30 different titans for the Imperials alone
Tyranid Bio-Titans would allow Pacific Rim Kaijiu vs. Jaeger fights.
GW needs to expand back the range of Tyranid weapons from what they had in Epic though as FW's interpretation of Tyranid Titans reduced them to just basically Scything Talons and the generic Bio-Cannon.
In fairness the only reason Tyranids don't have more titan models is because every time Epic got going it died off before giving Tyranids much and the Imperials got bloated lines because of the long AT and Titan Legions games of old. Meanwhile big titan models were always slower FW sellers and Tyranids just don't have enough market buying to make them want to make dozens of different super-sized titan models and weapons so yeah I can see why weapons and options got limited. Orks and Eldar have the same situation even though both have every reason to have extensive titan models and weapon options.
Basically there's no lore barrier against Xenos having as many diverse titan types as Imperials. The only downside of leaving them out of the game for so long is that when they do come along their lines will likely look less interesting purely from a variety point when compared to a fully fleshed out Imperial model line.
So would Chaos, Ork, and Eldar titans. Just saying.
Indeed!
Chaos is definitely in the works, but for now I would forget about the xenos. Unless Orks and Eldar had a notable role in the Horus Heresy era, I doubt we'll see them in Adeptus Titanicus.
That said, the rule book( pg 17 ) mentions the Balthor Sigma Intervention, where the World Eaters are supported by super heavies and an attack by "xenos titan analogues" which are determined to be Eldar...
Thing is AT can just advance its storyline to any point; the Imperial titans won't change visually nor design wise. They are timeless machines essentially in the setting.
Orks and Eldar certainly have limited appearances during the Horus Heresy period whilst Tyranids, Dark Eldar and Tau and such don't appear or come on the scene in a big way until much later in the setting.
So thinking about the Loyalist and later Traitor Legio books. What are the chances of a third book for maniples and missions? Or will GW keep them as a selling point for the campaign books?
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