Must say I'm going to cut against the grain and declare myself not a fan. There's nothing technically wrong with it, everything looks detailed, it seems an accurate representation of the art, but it doesn't make me want it.
Only bit that interests me is the tilt shield, it could be a decent alternative Storm Shield.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Is it me, or does the silhouette in the video at the end look like a different gun? I'm hoping it is.
Scratch that... looks like the thermal cannon.
FW are bound to do variations of these right... Imagine what might turn up with the HH line, there may be some mega mechanicum styles show up.
if these sell as well as I suspect they will (sounds like ANYONE with an Imperium army is strongly looking at em) I imagine these won;t be the last things we might see.
assuming the knights sell well I think the lesson GW'll take from it is that smallish super heavies that as playable in a medium sized 40k game are gonna be popular. (in a 1500 point game a knights not gonna be out of place)
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BrookM wrote: Just got word that the Knight will be the same price as a Baneblade, so €110 / £85 / $140 USD
thats what I expected. no shock there
TBH i dont think they will sell that well, they are nice and all but at 150 that is an extra 50% more expensive than the DF one and Esthetics aside, DF is just simply a better pice of engenniering and much better model. I can see my self buying the DF wich is an expensive but superb model with articulations and posing on the level of action figures, i dont see my self paying 50% more for an already expensive static model, regardless of the lore behind it. I mean, buying all the accesory parts for DF one brings them closer thou it is stil cheaper and they are not really nesesary. I mean its a gw kit, it will sell, how ever you dont see baneblades all over the place.
You say "aesthetic aside", but for me, half the point of buying a model is the aesthetic. The other half is whether or not it's in an army I collect and whether or not it's useful on the table top.
Action figure posing doesn't mean a whole lot to me if I'm not a fan of the aesthetic. I don't hate the DF models, but I much prefer the Knight aesthetic.
And that is cool, dont get me wrong, but a very big chunk of the GW customers are in it for the game. Its a nice kit, that is why i compared it to the bane blade, same price point. I can see this model appealing to lore fans with limited modeling skills (as in good painters but not nesesarily at moding). So it is appealing but expensive and it will only attract a fraction of GW customers (imperial players,whom are also of limited modding skills and lore fanatics), thats why i said, i can see it selling on the level of baneblades, a little more since its not guard only, but again, you dont see baneblades all over the place.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Is it me, or does the silhouette in the video at the end look like a different gun? I'm hoping it is.
Scratch that... looks like the thermal cannon.
FW are bound to do variations of these right... Imagine what might turn up with the HH line, there may be some mega mechanicum styles show up.
if these sell as well as I suspect they will (sounds like ANYONE with an Imperium army is strongly looking at em) I imagine these won;t be the last things we might see.
assuming the knights sell well I think the lesson GW'll take from it is that smallish super heavies that as playable in a medium sized 40k game are gonna be popular. (in a 1500 point game a knights not gonna be out of place)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrookM wrote: Just got word that the Knight will be the same price as a Baneblade, so €110 / £85 / $140 USD
thats what I expected. no shock there
TBH i dont think they will sell that well, they are nice and all but at 150 that is an extra 50% more expensive than the DF one and Esthetics aside, DF is just simply a better pice of engenniering and much better model. I can see my self buying the DF wich is an expensive but superb model with articulations and posing on the level of action figures, i dont see my self paying 50% more for an already expensive static model, regardless of the lore behind it. I mean, buying all the accesory parts for DF one brings them closer thou it is stil cheaper and they are not really nesesary. I mean its a gw kit, it will sell, how ever you dont see baneblades all over the place.
You say "aesthetic aside", but for me, half the point of buying a model is the aesthetic. The other half is whether or not it's in an army I collect and whether or not it's useful on the table top.
Action figure posing doesn't mean a whole lot to me if I'm not a fan of the aesthetic. I don't hate the DF models, but I much prefer the Knight aesthetic.
And that is cool, dont get me wrong, but a very big chunk of the GW customers are in it for the game. Its a nice kit, that is why i compared it to the bane blade, same price point. I can see this model appealing to lore fans with limited modeling skills (as in good painters but not nesesarily at moding). So it is appealing but expensive and it will only attract a fraction of GW customers (imperial players,whom are also of limited modding skills and lore fanatics), thats why i said, i can see it selling on the level of baneblades, a little more since its not guard only, but again, you dont see baneblades all over the place.
I dont mean it as a derogative term, i am barely above limited skills my self, will do some conversions and filling, but sculpting is definitely out. Being a lore fanatic is definetly not a bad thing, its just being a fan. But thats how i see it, with a limited target audience, which wont be helped by the fact that there is a better kit out there that also happens to be 33% cheaper.
I dont mean it as a derogative term, i am barely above limited skills my self, will do some conversions and filling, but sculpting is definitely out. Being a lore fanatic is definetly not a bad thing, its just being a fan. But thats how i see it, with a limited target audience, which wont be helped by the fact that there is a better kit out there that also happens to be 33% cheaper.
I think "Better kit" is subjective. I don't like the Dreamforge one, but I like the GW one quite a bit.
The silhouette at the end shows a walker with 2 guns - none of the leaks so far has shown this pattern of knight.
I know the rules leak doesn't have options for changing the CCW for a gun but maybe that will be an option in the Codex??
I dont mean it as a derogative term, i am barely above limited skills my self, will do some conversions and filling, but sculpting is definitely out. Being a lore fanatic is definetly not a bad thing, its just being a fan. But thats how i see it, with a limited target audience, which wont be helped by the fact that there is a better kit out there that also happens to be 33% cheaper.
I think "Better kit" is subjective. I don't like the Dreamforge one, but I like the GW one quite a bit.
The DFG one can fit nicely into the 40k style with a little conversion work and the right paintjob:
It's just a matter of adding details like banners, purity seals, shields etc. to 40k it up a bit.
That said, the Knight is a very nice-looking model just by itself.. either are valid choices.
I dont mean it as a derogative term, i am barely above limited skills my self, will do some conversions and filling, but sculpting is definitely out. Being a lore fanatic is definetly not a bad thing, its just being a fan. But thats how i see it, with a limited target audience, which wont be helped by the fact that there is a better kit out there that also happens to be 33% cheaper.
I think "Better kit" is subjective. I don't like the Dreamforge one, but I like the GW one quite a bit.
Not in this context, Aesthetics are subjective, engeniering is not, the DF is a better kit because it is a better piece of engeniering, with articulations and keyed arm options. I do not factor aethetics into it, some will like the GW esthetics some will the DF, its a matter of taste.
xxvaderxx wrote: And that is cool, dont get me wrong, but a very big chunk of the GW customers are in it for the game. Its a nice kit, that is why i compared it to the bane blade, same price point. I can see this model appealing to lore fans with limited modeling skills (as in good painters but not nesesarily at moding). So it is appealing but expensive and it will only attract a fraction of GW customers (imperial players,whom are also of limited modding skills and lore fanatics), thats why i said, i can see it selling on the level of baneblades, a little more since its not guard only, but again, you dont see baneblades all over the place.
I think you're wrong in who you think it will appeal to. I'm sure as hell not a lore fanatic... I played Epic 40k in it's mid-90's form, but I didn't even know about Knights until the rumour surfaced not all that long ago. As far as my modelling skills, meh, I'm not great but I have scratch built a couple of models and extensively converted a lot of my models.
Yet the knight appeals to me, largely from an aesthetic perspective. I'd rather have a model I like the look of but has more limited posing than a model that has awesome posing that I think looks "meh", especially when there's probably going to be 30-60 hours of building and painting involved.
I think you're trying to get too far in to the psychology of the intended audience and missing the mark. The intended audience is the people who think it looks cool, want to use it in a game and are willing to pay the price for it. Obviously there's a lot of sub categories within that, but I don't think there's a lot of benefit going in to that.
For me personally, if I'm spending a couple of months building and painting a model, the fact it costs $150 instead of $100 is largely irrelevant to me. That's not even a tank of gas in my fun hobby car, which I would burn in the space of a weekend, lol.
I'd buy this (mainly for the aesthetics), paint it black as those Freeblades (merc's that can ally) and run it with my Iron Hands Raukaan. Love the model. Best thing GW produced in a long time. I don't care about the price in this case.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The intended audience is the people who think it looks cool, want to use it in a game and are willing to pay the price for it. Obviously there's a lot of sub categories within that, but I don't think there's a lot of benefit going in to that.
For me personally, if I'm spending a couple of months building and painting a model, the fact it costs $150 instead of $100 is largely irrelevant to me. That's not even a tank of gas in my fun hobby car, which I would burn in the space of a weekend, lol.
I essentially agree, thou i also think that that target is essentialy included on what i mentioned before and are you, in fact i imagine that is mostly people like who bought the banebladed. Which again is cool, just not my cup of tea, but i dont think they will sell thouthands of them either, again, on the level may be a little more than baneblades.
I dont mean it as a derogative term, i am barely above limited skills my self, will do some conversions and filling, but sculpting is definitely out. Being a lore fanatic is definetly not a bad thing, its just being a fan. But thats how i see it, with a limited target audience, which wont be helped by the fact that there is a better kit out there that also happens to be 33% cheaper.
I think "Better kit" is subjective. I don't like the Dreamforge one, but I like the GW one quite a bit.
Not in this context, Aesthetics are subjective, engeniering is not, the DF is a better kit because it is a better piece of engeniering, with articulations and keyed arm options. I do not factor aethetics into it, some will like the GW esthetics some will the DF, its a matter of taste.
There's a large group of people, which includes me, where the aesthetics ARE the point of a model. If I didn't give a damned about the aesthetics, I'd use paper cut outs.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The intended audience is the people who think it looks cool, want to use it in a game and are willing to pay the price for it. Obviously there's a lot of sub categories within that, but I don't think there's a lot of benefit going in to that.
For me personally, if I'm spending a couple of months building and painting a model, the fact it costs $150 instead of $100 is largely irrelevant to me. That's not even a tank of gas in my fun hobby car, which I would burn in the space of a weekend, lol.
I essentially agree, thou i also think that that target is essentialy included on what i mentioned before and so you, in fact i imagine that is mostly people like who bought the banebladed. Which again is cool, just not my cup of tea, but i dont think they will sell thouthands of them either, again, on the level may be a little more than baneblades.
I don't think they'll sell tons of them either... just not for the reasons you concocted.
BrookM wrote: The official announcement sent to all stores notes that the Knight is an option for six armies: "This week arrives a new exciting model for Imperial Guard and every Space Marine army out there! That is nearly half of all the 40K armies and therefore this release will appeal to a lot of your customers!"
So, Imperial for now.
Yeah, that seems most likely. However, there's still that 1% chance that they've actually included CSM in the "every Space Marine army" bit (IG + 4SM factions + CSM = 6). I can dream...
Anyway, the model is so great I think I'll buy it anyway, for the sake of building, painting and converting it to Chaos. In case it doesn't get an official CSM option, my friends may stil allow me to use it in games.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: There's a large group of people, which includes me, where the aesthetics ARE the point of a model. If I didn't give a damned about the aesthetics, I'd use paper cut outs.
Then in my context you can say you like it better, which is different than it being better. You might like a chevrolet better than a cadillac, but having worked for GM i can tell you cadillacs are the better cars (better materials, support, engeniering and so on).
AllSeeingSkink wrote: There's a large group of people, which includes me, where the aesthetics ARE the point of a model. If I didn't give a damned about the aesthetics, I'd use paper cut outs.
Then in my context you can say you like it better, which is different than it being better. You might like a chevrolet better than a cadillac, but having worked for GM i can tell you cadillacs are the better cars (better materials, support, engeniering and so on).
In the context of a model, if the primary reason for buying it is the aesthetics, then the better model is the model which has the aesthetics you desire. Therefore, "better" is subjective.
If I want to buy a P-51 model, it really doesn't matter what technical advantages a P-47 model might have, the better model is the one that's actually a P-51.
BrookM wrote: The official announcement sent to all stores notes that the Knight is an option for six armies: "This week arrives a new exciting model for Imperial Guard and every Space Marine army out there! That is nearly half of all the 40K armies and therefore this release will appeal to a lot of your customers!"
So, Imperial for now.
I wish I could say I was surprised that the Sisters get screwed again, but I really can't.
BrookM wrote: The official announcement sent to all stores notes that the Knight is an option for six armies: "This week arrives a new exciting model for Imperial Guard and every Space Marine army out there! That is nearly half of all the 40K armies and therefore this release will appeal to a lot of your customers!"
So, Imperial for now.
Yeah, that seems most likely. However, there's still that 1% chance that they've actually included CSM in the "every Space Marine army" bit (IG + 4SM factions + CSM = 6). I can dream...
Anyway, the model is so great I think I'll buy it anyway, for the sake of building, painting and converting it to Chaos. In case it doesn't get an official CSM option, my friends may stil allow me to use it in games.
Nope:
A plastic kit that makes either the Knight Paladin or the Knight Errant. This massive centerpiece kit that stands over 15cm tall and has a lot of additional components to add variety. This model will be popular as it can be used by nearly half the 40K armies – Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels.
BrookM wrote: The official announcement sent to all stores notes that the Knight is an option for six armies: "This week arrives a new exciting model for Imperial Guard and every Space Marine army out there! That is nearly half of all the 40K armies and therefore this release will appeal to a lot of your customers!"
So, Imperial for now.
Not even ALL imperials, it seems. Great news !
angelofvengeance wrote: I can see a few Game of Thrones ideas being thrown at these lol. Targaryen, Stark, Baratheon, Lannister, Greyjoy, Arryn, Tully etc etc
Do you really want to see your models die a terrible and cruel and inescapable death ?
SarisKhan wrote: Yeah, that seems most likely. However, there's still that 1% chance that they've actually included CSM in the "every Space Marine army" bit (IG + 4SM factions + CSM = 6). I can dream...
Or it will be Imperial Guard + Rainbow marines + Green marines + Red marines + Grey marines + Silver marines, i.e. only loyalist marine forces.
BrookM wrote: The official announcement sent to all stores notes that the Knight is an option for six armies: "This week arrives a new exciting model for Imperial Guard and every Space Marine army out there! That is nearly half of all the 40K armies and therefore this release will appeal to a lot of your customers!"
So, Imperial for now.
Not even ALL imperials, it seems. Great news !
I suppose the Inquisition and Sisters don't count to the bean-counters.
In the context of a model, if the primary reason for buying it is the aesthetics, then the better model is the model which has the aesthetics you desire. Therefore, "better" is subjective.
And I think that's the only way this discussion can ever end - everyone's taste is purely personal and subjective.
I have the Dreamforge Leviathan, and will also be looking at getting a Knight to paint. Simply because the aesthetics of both appeal to me, but in different ways.
If people prefer one to the other, like both, or like neither, who am I to dictate to anyone where there tastes must lie?
AllSeeingSkink wrote: There's a large group of people, which includes me, where the aesthetics ARE the point of a model. If I didn't give a damned about the aesthetics, I'd use paper cut outs.
Then in my context you can say you like it better, which is different than it being better. You might like a chevrolet better than a cadillac, but having worked for GM i can tell you cadillacs are the better cars (better materials, support, engeniering and so on).
In the context of a model, if the primary reason for buying it is the aesthetics, then the better model is the model which has the aesthetics you desire. Therefore, "better" is subjective.
If I want to buy a P-51 model, it really doesn't matter what technical advantages a P-47 model might have, the better model is the one that's actually a P-51.
Then you like the P-51 better and P-47 is the superior model. You liking it better factors you preferences as the determining factor, it being a superior model factors its engeniering. I like the F-14 tomcat better than the f-22 raptor, the raptor thou is clearly the superior jet.
BrookM wrote: The official announcement sent to all stores notes that the Knight is an option for six armies: "This week arrives a new exciting model for Imperial Guard and every Space Marine army out there! That is nearly half of all the 40K armies and therefore this release will appeal to a lot of your customers!"
So, Imperial for now.
Yeah, that seems most likely. However, there's still that 1% chance that they've actually included CSM in the "every Space Marine army" bit (IG + 4SM factions + CSM = 6). I can dream...
Anyway, the model is so great I think I'll buy it anyway, for the sake of building, painting and converting it to Chaos. In case it doesn't get an official CSM option, my friends may stil allow me to use it in games.
At this stage of the game with GW ramming rulebooks willy-nilly on players and the crazy Ally Table I say tell your friends and go for it unless they are a bunch of TFG they should agree and it's like you are going to play in one of the thousands official tournaments GW is currently supporting.
BrookM wrote: I suppose the Inquisition and Sisters don't count to the bean-counters.
Or maybe they just know that most stores never even saw any Sisters of Battle (or Inquisition outside of silver marines), and therefore GW do not want to make those stores discover that there exist a bunch of weird armies which they are not allowed to sell rules (and maybe even models) for.
BrookM wrote: But, but, but, according to the laws of the internets, you CANNOT possibly like both!
But, but, but...there's all these videos of girls on the internet who seem to like EVERYTHING!!! Why can't I be like them?!!!
On a serious note - maybe I really should be stringently deriding anyone else opinions, and accusing them of wearing "tin foil hats" for daring to suggest an idea or theory.
Nah, stuff it, I'm too old, and haven't got the energy, for "internet arguments" or trolls...
AllSeeingSkink wrote: There's a large group of people, which includes me, where the aesthetics ARE the point of a model. If I didn't give a damned about the aesthetics, I'd use paper cut outs.
Then in my context you can say you like it better, which is different than it being better. You might like a chevrolet better than a cadillac, but having worked for GM i can tell you cadillacs are the better cars (better materials, support, engeniering and so on).
In the context of a model, if the primary reason for buying it is the aesthetics, then the better model is the model which has the aesthetics you desire. Therefore, "better" is subjective.
If I want to buy a P-51 model, it really doesn't matter what technical advantages a P-47 model might have, the better model is the one that's actually a P-51.
Then you like the P-51 better and P-47 is the superior model. You liking it better factors you preferences as the determining factor, it being a superior model factors its engeniering. I like the F-14 tomcat better than the f-22 raptor, the raptor thou is clearly the superior jet.
Engineering.
But we aren't talking about cars or planes. We are talking about model kits. The purpose of a car is transportation. If a car transports you better than another car, that makes it the better car (even that is massively subjective). The purpose of a jet fighter is to be better than other jet fighters at shooting each other down, and perhaps some ground attack as well. The jet fighter that does that better is the better jet fighter. Even within that there are a whole bunch of if's and but's.
If you're going to talk about cars, the better analogy is probably comparing a car to a truck. Which is better? Well that entirely depends on what you want to do with it. If you have a large load to carry it doesn't matter if the car is 3 times more efficient if it can't carry your load... the truck is better.
Anyway, point = "better" is a subjective term in the context of model kits. I'm going to bed now
Having said that, I think the move to ever bigger models is a worrying trend in term sof the game itself, yes, they are mostly cool looking things and as objects I like them, but they inevitable end up two feet apart on a 6x4 gaming table and it just looks stupid.
The game isnt one to compare to reality really, but a table of a couple of squads of marines and a transport or two facing a few squads of eldar and the odd tank sort of 'fit' into the table as a believable battle.
A honking great wraithknight and a couple of these? Not so much.
The biggest problem is that you can't really go much larger on table size than 6'x4' - that 2' is what you can reach comfortably to move models around. Personally, I'm starting to turn towards 15mm scale like FoW for these higher model count battles. Fortunately, for 28mm skirmish there's also Bolt Action that guarantees that there's no big gribblies coming to the table - unless they release some 'Nazi secret weapons' stuff
The size of the latest models really affects the terrain, too. I guess with the new larger models, you should have multiple pieces of 2-3 stories high terrain, just to block the LOS. With the current kits, you have to start looking how Battletech/mecha tables are set up, heightwise, to make it interesting to move infantry and big walkers around. Even the big walkers SHOULD have to make tactical choices, which pieces to maneuver around etc.. So more cityfight terrain?
I'm a member of a gaming club, but I never thought of this. Our terrain has remained the same for the last 5 years, while the miniatures from GW has gotten bigger and bigger. There are now flyers and monsters on the table, so it has become really difficult getting cover from anything important.
bubber wrote: The silhouette at the end shows a walker with 2 guns - none of the leaks so far has shown this pattern of knight.
I know the rules leak doesn't have options for changing the CCW for a gun but maybe that will be an option in the Codex??
I think it's just the CCW we already saw in the other pics, only from an different angle.
Some people mentioned terrain. Is the game outgrowing current table sizes? Too many big gribblies on the table and you don't have space for buildings/terrain. I can't imagine trying to maneuver these around and dealing with charges to get that D cc weapon in action, "I'm just going to move this hill and this building so I can put this model down here..."
I'm more than likely going to end up in the "I think DFG make a better kit" camp, but how about we suspend this argument until it gets released, or at least until get get some nice images of the sprues and assembly options.
Who knows, GW may surprise the pants off of us and this will have all the good stuff that the Leviathan and Mortis have thanks to their slide tooling etc.
I just love the way we all talk about GW being totally incompetent one minute but then accuse them of machiavellian astuteness the next. Pick one. Also, if they'd made it more expensive, would you be happier?
I like how you haven't addressed my point and try to defect onto something else.
Picking up on that anyway, I actually think its pretty stupid to hit back on the 3rd party market both with the case that they brought against Chapterhouse as it was far too overreaching and the over reaction yanking units when they lost the case. Lego has a thriving bits market for things that Lego won't make (like scale versions of real life guns) and they support their bits market, perfect case of the clear market leader in a niche area not being a d-bag and still maintaining sales & IP.
Oh and I think the Knight should be free on the cover of the next White Dwarf.
Mate... I responded to your original point, you raised some other gak about codex prices, then you accused ME of "defecting" (you meant "deflecting" I guess). No, no, no. Not playing.
Surely any discussion over relative merits of design/engineering is irrelevant until we see the sprues or have them in hand?
The DFG walkers have a level of articulation that's more or less unprecedented, that is to be lauded and admired, but cannot be compared fairly to a few small pictures of a constructed model and rumours about what a kit is like.
Looks like either way works, though the White Dwarf only gives you some of the rules for fielding them, not everything, for which you'll need the codex.
I think they did the same with the new Dwarf units: Give stats and rules, but nothing beyond that.
Bull0 wrote: Mate... I responded to your original point, you raised some other gak about codex prices, then you accused ME of "defecting" (you meant "deflecting" I guess). No, no, no. Not playing.
Please show me where I complained about codex prices in this thread, as I can't find anything like that when I did a search on my posts. Does your ION shield deflect for all sides or do you have to choose a side upfront?
sockwithaticket wrote: Surely any discussion over relative merits of design/engineering is irrelevant until we see the sprues or have them in hand?
The DFG walkers have a level of articulation that's more or less unprecedented, that is to be lauded and admired, but cannot be compared fairly to a few small pictures of a constructed model and rumours about what a kit is like.
Some people have the uncanny ability to divine engineering quality from a photo of a blurry WD picture and determine how the sprue is laid out and what articulation options it has.
Natfka is posting rumours that this kit is going to be $160. That is the same cost as the Lord of Skulls kit (which is pretty bulky). I hope the Knight kit doesn't go above $140 or it might price me out of it.
Looky Likey wrote: Does your ION shield deflect for all sides or do you have to choose a side upfront?
The ion shield just protects one side (front/left/right or rear), but you get to set it on initial deployment then at the start of each of your opponents shooting phases before they shoot anything so you can pick the most usefull side to protect
EDIT: and the way the rules written you'd get to do it against each subsequent opponent in a multiplayer match too
Looky Likey wrote: Does your ION shield deflect for all sides or do you have to choose a side upfront?
The ion shield just protects one side (front/left/right or rear), but you get to set it on initial deployment then at the start of each of your opponents shooting phases before they shoot anything so you can pick the most usefull side to protect
EDIT: and the way the rules written you'd get to do it against each subsequent opponent in a multiplayer match too
You choose when being shot at during the start of the shooting phase.
GW have finally done something new and unprecedented, which is release an amazing update of an old epic class for 40k; and people are still complaining.
In the end, no one is going to mourn the loss of your income. Buy the DFG leviathan. Buy the Knight. Buy either. Buy none. Just don't whine about it.
Broadsides are bigger models than Space Marine Dreadnoughts, but I never seen anyone wonder why they're not vehicles.
Really? I can recall quite a few complaints about that back when the Tau were new.
Well to be fair the original broadsided were just crisis suits with metal bits stuck on. They were the size of a crisis suits, just with guns bigger than them.
Like this acctuly
The metal parts were the guns, SMS, feet, and two little things that covered the jet pack.
Nothing prevents us from putting spiky bits and the Star of Chaos on our Knights As far as playability goes, Apoc is an obvious green light to use them, at worst.
Perhaps FW could provide some conversion kits and/or rules to use Knights in CSM armies.
Solis Luna Astrum wrote: Fairly reliable source told me I should have $140 ready for the pre-order.
You mean like the previous page?
Also, we've heard $120, so who knows at this point.
Actually, a local store, to me, (Battlegrounds) threw up a pic of the Imperial Knight and said "The big man is $140.00". Now, I am feeling fairly confident in that price point, but I wont 100% confident until my main store close by has the pre-orders up for that cost.
sennacherib wrote: WOULD have thought to include a chaos version in the rules.
I would happily use them as is with CSM at the moment. Chaos specific rules ( USR's / weapon options and such ) may appear later in a WD, if not the Codex itself ?
sennacherib wrote: Seems like GW, being as they are financially sucking heavily right now, WOULD have thought to include a chaos version in the rules.
THat is of course acting on the assumption that they actually think.
Fail.
it might be they want to hold off and do it properly.
it might also be that their bean coutners crunched the numbers and realized that they'll proably not lose a substantial number of sales (I don't see a lotta chaos players compared to Imperial players)
it could also be that the corperate thinking is that the idea behind this is to give access to super heavies to the Imperial factions, to try and spur slaes of the necron, chaos and ork super heavies as a counter
I dunno if Chaos can get them, from what I saw of the magazine, looks like it's going to be a new Codex for mechanicum. Looks like you can bring 6 of these in your army. And the can ally with imperial army's
Perhaps gw realise the lord of skulls dont sell as much as they want, so by giving "half of the armies" access to a new big bad model (or two),
but deny chaos to use it, they may sell some more of their even more expencive lord of skulls.
Just a thought.
Edit: i dont really think it makes sense, giving chaos acces to this model would be far more profitable than thinking it
Somehow compeate with stuff like the skull lord, but I can see how gw could reason thus.
Fayric wrote: Perhaps gw realise the lord of skulls dont sell as much as they want, so by giving "half of the armies" access to a new big bad model (or two),
but deny chaos to use it, they may sell some more of their even more expencive lord of skulls.
Just a thought.
Edit: i dont really think it makes sense, giving chaos acces to this model would be far more profitable than thinking it
Somehow compeate with stuff like the skull lord, but I can see how gw could reason thus.
yeah thats my read. they're hoping these knights will enchourage other super heavy sales and increase support for escalation
When your company has lost a lot in sales, denying yourself sales on something that you have already invested heavily in seems stupid.
However, the lord of lawnmowers may not have sold all that well, and as a result they probably want to get more people to buy it by denying chaos access to something like the knight. Problem is, the lawnmower is lamer looking, more expensive, and Khorne Specific. As a Nurgle player i won't likely buy that thing ever (though i have seen a great nurgle conversion of it.).
sennacherib wrote: When your company has lost a lot in sales, denying yourself sales on something that you have already invested heavily in seems stupid.
However, the lord of lawnmowers may not have sold all that well, and as a result they probably want to get more people to buy it by denying chaos access to something like the knight. Problem is, the lawnmower is lamer looking, more expensive, and Khorne Specific. As a Nurgle player i won't likely buy that thing ever (though i have seen a great nurgle conversion of it.).
I do believe GW learned something from the Khornemower, not as much as they should have, but something. They released a asinine looking model I still can't believe is a thing for a subset of one army, and not a particularly popular or effective subset. Best case scenario there was mediocre sales. Now, a slightly cheaper superheavy drawn from a reasonably well-established section of the fluff and available to Guard and all the colours of Marines (I have a Marine army, and I still find it hard to actually consider them all wholly seperate army, and the fact that GW itself has apparently referred to this being available to all marines counts as "half the armies" is quite saddening), well worst case scenario, it'll sell better than the Khornemower.
As for Chaos getting this, I think it's largely inevitable, but not without it being re-packed with Chaos bits. Remember, GW won't release anything that they can't sell the exact model/wargear for anymore, and do no encourage much in the way of hobby creativeness, so I don't think you'll see them say later "Knights can be used by the forces of Chaos, but must demonstrate their chaotic allegiance on the model," as think of those heinous third party bits manufacturers who will then sell Chaos bits for Knights!
Nevermind you had to buy the bloody model in the first place from GW (which still confuses me in general; aftermarket bits will get you kicked out of a store, despite you buying the full GW kit originally).
sennacherib wrote: Problem is, the lawnmower is lamer looking, more expensive, and Khorne Specific. As a Nurgle player i won't likely buy that thing ever (though i have seen a great nurgle conversion of it.).
That's my issue with the existing Chaos super heavies. They're either Khorne specific (mower, brass scorpion) or overly expensive (titans, thunderhawk) There isn't really anything at the lower end of the price spectrum for the other gods, unless you're running CD rather than CSM. Though, Tzeentch is in a slightly better boat, as the scorpion does vaguely fit with the Egyptian theme for the Sons.
I'm still a mix of doubtful and hopeful that we'll have a viable way to use these in a CSM army (other than traitor guard, knight, CSM allies).
looking over the warhammer 40k wiki entry on knights it's also worth noting that chaos has their own knight varients. specificly the "Deamon Knights of Slaanish"
they have 3 types, and 2 of them are similer eneugh I could see GW releasing a duel kit down the road.
Which means the codex maybe out on the last day for new rules for adepticon. Let's see if they swing the banhammer for the championships on this codex.
prankster wrote: Yeah, Slaanesh did have some knights added back in the days of epic. Though they're closer to the Eldar ones than the imperial ones in appearance.
Yeah, they'd be very very differnt from the knights here, as well as differnt from the Lord of skulls. they'd be mobile weapons platform deamon engines I suspect
I believe they were called Hell Knights/Daemon Knights (and they had different variants) and they were the approximate Chaos counter to Imperial Knights back in the epic days.
Not sure how they'd be different from the Imperial ones other than being chaos empowered. The back story for them was that an Imperial governor had a household of Knights on retainer (palace guard) and had enjoyed hunting his planet's indigenous big-game species to the point of being obsessed with it. His household guard of Knights participated in these events and the obsession was shared with the pilots to where Slaanesh had taken root amongst them. They then hunted their own PDF units and anything they could to the point of all-out civil war.
I'd have no problem if they brought them back.....
ThirdUltra wrote: I believe they were called Hell Knights/Daemon Knights (and they had different variants) and they were the approximate Chaos counter to Imperial Knights back in the epic days.
Not sure how they'd be different from the Imperial ones other than being chaos empowered. The back story for them was that an Imperial governor had a household of Knights on retainer (palace guard) and had enjoyed hunting his planet's indigenous big-game species to the point of being obsessed with it. His household guard of Knights participated in these events and the obsession was shared with the pilots to where Slaanesh had taken root amongst them. They then hunted their own PDF units and anything they could to the point of all-out civil war.
I'd have no problem if they brought them back.....
ThirdUltra wrote: I believe they were called Hell Knights/Daemon Knights (and they had different variants) and they were the approximate Chaos counter to Imperial Knights back in the epic days.
Not sure how they'd be different from the Imperial ones other than being chaos empowered. The back story for them was that an Imperial governor had a household of Knights on retainer (palace guard) and had enjoyed hunting his planet's indigenous big-game species to the point of being obsessed with it. His household guard of Knights participated in these events and the obsession was shared with the pilots to where Slaanesh had taken root amongst them. They then hunted their own PDF units and anything they could to the point of all-out civil war.
I'd have no problem if they brought them back.....
Interesting, however, I still have the old WD when these made their first appearance. I'd have to go back through it to match the details of it to the link. Most of what I posted was from memory from back then (circa 1994-95).
Red Viper wrote: Hard for me to justify a model this expensive that is "only" 1/4 to 1/5 of my army.
I can get entire playable forces in other games for the same price. It's a cool model though, just not for me.
I'm sure they could make more money overall by bringing the price down and selling many times the number they will at £80 or thereabouts. The knight isn't that big, it's smaller and less complex a kit than many varied plastic models at half the price. But they seem to want to keep prices way up and move less stock.
Vaguely on topic... I saw a Wraithknight next to a Stompa for the first time the other day. It's laugh out loud funny that they are the same price. The Stompa is three times the size of the Wraithknight in terms of bulk.
Anyone know what the DImensions are? How tall and WIde? Is this more like the lord of skulls or is it bigger closer to a Stompa! wanna Loot one but needs to "as is" for either a Mega-Dread or Stompa.....
I've given up on 40k, I went to a tournament where a player bought a Skypad, a Riptide and one of those stupid Eldar Super knights....He put all his troops on the skypad and then put the Tau and Eldar big models behind them on the pad.
5 games, he tabled 4 different good armies with good generals, and then tabled another "Cheese-mong army" an entire army of actual Wolves led by Canis, it was like 90 wolves or something stupid.
All I can say....Load of Bollocks. Allies has made 6th stupid, just cherry pick the "Good Units" and balls to the fluff. It makes uber-power gamers cream themselves.
I cannot see these Knights as anything other than just another reason to have another UBER unit in a force, allied away. Don't even start me on the stupidity, of the Skull Lord £100 model which can be used by any force....WTF!!!! Next it will be Psykers for Black Templars, or pleasant Dark Eldar, Intelligent orks.
40k has massively lost it's way, I'm playing 30k pretty much all the time now, it's far more engaging and far more fluffy. Plus I can still use these Knights! I literally haven't a clue with 40k and all the addition rule books and crap. Escalation, apocalypse, Strong Hold Assault, the core rules, + codexes, I need an extra bag just for the books. I've disengaged so much from GW, I add a little bit to my FW army now and again, and I bought the Big books, but otherwise I won't be buying 40k anymore. I only play 30k because there are like 16 of us in my gaming group each with a different Legion force, so it makes life interesting, plus we were doing this back when it was the BOLS Heresy Rules.
The Surveyor wrote: Anyone know what the DImensions are? How tall and WIde? Is this more like the lord of skulls or is it bigger closer to a Stompa! wanna Loot one but needs to "as is" for either a Mega-Dread or Stompa.....
Pardon my previous rage post....On a more positive note....There models will be awesome for conversions and I'm sure my jaw will be on the floor when people convert these. Especially if I could see an entire house of Knights in AD-MECH colours for 30k!
Broadsides are bigger models than Space Marine Dreadnoughts, but I never seen anyone wonder why they're not vehicles.
Really? I can recall quite a few complaints about that back when the Tau were new.
Well to be fair the original broadsided were just crisis suits with metal bits stuck on. They were the size of a crisis suits, just with guns bigger than them. .
Yes... and both the Crisis and Broadside should have been treated as Walkers.
Broadsides are bigger models than Space Marine Dreadnoughts, but I never seen anyone wonder why they're not vehicles.
Really? I can recall quite a few complaints about that back when the Tau were new.
Well to be fair the original broadsided were just crisis suits with metal bits stuck on. They were the size of a crisis suits, just with guns bigger than them. .
Yes... and both the Crisis and Broadside should have been treated as Walkers.
Why? Statwise, they have always been jet infantry/infantry. They are powered suits, more like the tau version of terminator armor than a dreadnought.
BunkerBob wrote: I want to know what their codex will look like. It could still be a lukewarm turd floating in a sea of khorne flakes.
The rules have been posted here multiple times, unless they've since been edited out. I think that they're kind of cool, yet pretty mediocre. I'll take one because of the cool factor and because hey, large melta blasts are pretty cool.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Why? Statwise, they have always been jet infantry/infantry. They are powered suits, more like the tau version of terminator armor than a dreadnought.
Because they're not powered suits. They're a walking vehicle with a guy sitting in a little capsule in the middle. The only difference between a Crisis suit and a dreadnought is that the Crisis pilot can get out by himself.
BunkerBob wrote: I want to know what their codex will look like. It could still be a lukewarm turd floating in a sea of khorne flakes.
The rules have been posted here multiple times, unless they've since been edited out. I think that they're kind of cool, yet pretty mediocre. I'll take one because of the cool factor and because hey, large melta blasts are pretty cool.
BoLS was talking about a new codex coming, I was speaking of that lukewarm turd. The knight looks fun to build but it is not worth loosing a baneblade to me.
The Surveyor wrote: Anyone know what the DImensions are? How tall and WIde? Is this more like the lord of skulls or is it bigger closer to a Stompa! wanna Loot one but needs to "as is" for either a Mega-Dread or Stompa.....
15 CM tall, that much is told to the stores.
It is in the neighborhood of a megadread that is for sure it definitely towers over normal deff dreads.
Right so, 15cm, about 6". That makes the Mumak-sized base much more likely then, since if you size one of the full-body pictures such that the model is about 6" high, the base is approx 7" wide. Given it has a wide stance, it's actually quite close to being in-scale.
A touch more expensive than the DFG Leviathan, but I think despite the more ornate kit, it will likely be less "well designed" in posability since the Leviathan is amazing in that regard. The Leviathan is also larger. Combine the two and yeah, GW seems to be charging more for less, as usual.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Why? Statwise, they have always been jet infantry/infantry. They are powered suits, more like the tau version of terminator armor than a dreadnought.
Because they're not powered suits. They're a walking vehicle with a guy sitting in a little capsule in the middle. The only difference between a Crisis suit and a dreadnought is that the Crisis pilot can get out by himself.
Crisis suits are also jet pack infantry, and I'm not sure how you would do that. They really don't make sense to be walkers at all. IIRC centurions are that size, should they be walkers? What about the dreadknight, or the wraith lord, or the wraith knight? Size should not determine type. They are a lot more like a large terminator then a dreadnought. They are not piloted in the conventional sense, they are worn. Rules-wise making them walkers would be bad and kind of clunky. They were never designed to be walkers and should not be walkers. And if you did make them walkers you would have broadsides with the ability to move and shoot as full BS. And you would have to create rules for jet pack walkers. I kind of agree that the riptide should have been a walkers but that's mostly because I think it should have never been created. It is a un-fluffy pile of.... well you get the idea. They could have just kept broadsides with railguns or given railguns a beam like ability. Also they ARE powered suits.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Crisis suits are also jet pack infantry, and I'm not sure how you would do that.
The Jet Pack rules were originally created for Crisis suits. It's not like they were made infantry instead of vehicles because they had to fit into existing rules... GW could as easily have made their jetpacks a vehicle upgrade that worked the same way.
What about the dreadknight, or the wraith lord, or the wraith knight?
Did you miss what started this whole tangent in the first place?
They were never designed to be walkers...
Yes, that was the point. When they were released, some players thought that they should have been designed as walkers.
I'm not one of them. Personally, I feel 40K would be better served by just removing the vehicle rules and counting them all as Monstrous Creatures instead. But this little tangent started because someone suggested that the Riptide 'couldn't be' a vehicle because Crisis suits aren't.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Crisis suits are also jet pack infantry, and I'm not sure how you would do that.
The Jet Pack rules were originally created for Crisis suits. It's not like they were made infantry instead of vehicles because they had to fit into existing rules... GW could as easily have made their jetpacks a vehicle upgrade that worked the same way.
True
What about the dreadknight, or the wraith lord, or the wraith knight?
Did you miss what started this whole tangent in the first place?
It did start yesterday .
They were never designed to be walkers...
Yes, that was the point. When they were released, some players thought that they should have been designed as walkers.
I'm not one of them. Personally, I feel 40K would be better served by just removing the vehicle rules and counting them all as Monstrous Creatures instead. But this little tangent started because someone suggested that the Riptide 'couldn't be' a vehicle because Crisis suits aren't.
Really, silly me . I do think the riptide could completely be a walker. It would make it more manageable (although it might need a price tweak), but it really should not have been ever created. It is a fluff defying abomination.
Nor is most of the discussion from the ensuing thread.
That's kind of the point of reading the thread.
Because we all know that we have 30+ pages of pure gold. The important stuff like videos and pictures are usually posted in the OP. If they aren't there somebody might assume it hasn't been posted.
Nor is most of the discussion from the ensuing thread.
That's kind of the point of reading the thread.
Because we all know that we have 30+ pages of pure gold. The important stuff like videos and pictures are usually posted in the OP. If they aren't there somebody might assume it hasn't been posted.
I haven't put the video in the OP because it is the usual pointless nonsense that adds no actual info to what we already had, but then I did also assume that people generally will scroll through pages they haven't read to catch up on new pics or info, even if they don't read every post.....
Although looking back, I felt like there were bigger versions of the main pics in the OP in here somewhere (which I saved to my tablet of course ). I was able to zoom in and read the text easier... but maybe that was just due to it being on a tablet and nothing else.
Very likely, I was having issues with the original pics, as they all had the same file name once I downloaded them into my tablet, meaning I couldn't attach them, so I uploaded them to photobucket and hot linked from there.
I think Pretre posted them as attachments, so filter thread for him and you should find bigger copies.
So, taking one of the large photos and scaling the base to a Mumak base (180mm/7" long) gives a knight that is 150mm/6" tall. Scaling to a 120mm oval base makes the Knight much too short (under 5").
I dunno if this is "grain of salt" time, but BOLS has a "Imperial Knights and your Wallet" thread on these which is reporting that the transfer/ decal sheet will only be sold seperately for USD$20.
It's posted in the comments on the thread, and no-one is screaming the poster (Mike M) down, they all seem to be agreeing with him that it raises the price to USD$160.
I didn't see this mentioned in the original post here, has anyone heard anything to suggest "bollocks" or is it legitimate?
Padre wrote: I dunno if this is "grain of salt" time, but BOLS has a "Imperial Knights and your Wallet" thread on these which is reporting that the transfer/ decal sheet will only be sold seperately for USD$20.
It's posted in the comments on the thread, and no-one is screaming the poster (Mike M) down, they all seem to be agreeing with him that it raises the price to USD$160.
I didn't see this mentioned in the original post here, has anyone heard anything to suggest "bollocks" or is it legitimate?
I am usually one to hoot and hollar at GW making me pay too much for their stuff, but 160 for a mini titan, I am not groaning at this one. its such a model that I imagine there are going to be special decal transfer sheets for it, I might just pring some images off, cut em and stencil em if I need to. but the OP has "Priced the same as Lord of Skulls" so roughly 160 range anyway.
Well, much as Faeit is mistrusted as a source he's got a price list up that looks valid. $140 for the knight kit and $20 (direct) for the transfer sheet. Though there's no indication whether you get a sheet in the box or not. Personally, I suspect that the separate sheet is aimed at those who just want to add them to other things. Either way, $140 for the knight (with or without transfers) is vaguely acceptable in my book, especially once discounters get it up.
prankster wrote: Either way, $140 for the knight (with or without transfers) is vaguely acceptable in my book, especially once discounters get it up.
Oh, I'm not commenting on the price, if this indeed turns out to be the case (my obvious hope, though, is that the $20 refers to additional transfer sheets, and that you do get one included with the Knight.)
I'm just interested to see what the fact of the matter is.
And how did we get OT to the point of talking about discounters' sex lives?! I don't care if they "get it up" or not!
prankster wrote: Either way, $140 for the knight (with or without transfers) is vaguely acceptable in my book, especially once discounters get it up.
Oh, I'm not commenting on the price, if this indeed turns out to be the case (my obvious hope, though, is that the $20 refers to additional transfer sheets, and that you do get one included with the Knight.)
I'm just interested to see what the fact of the matter is.
And how did we get OT to the point of talking about discounters' sex lives?! I don't care if they "get it up" or not!
I see what you did thar, and you got an exalt for it.
Man, rumors of this coming out in March, Ig coming out in March, Diablo III expansion coming out in March... My wallet is going to hate me. Good thing I have two weeks of vacation in March and a tax return coming in soon.
I wonder how much plastic card in would need to make this look more like a mini warhound. I for one really don't like the way it looks, granted on my work computer only one of the pictures shows up so it might be a lot better than I think. This and the new plastic storm troopers make me wonder who got canned and who replaced them. Along with the rumored plastic salamanders my attention to new 40k sky rocketed.
Ruberu wrote: Man, rumors of this coming out in March, Ig coming out in March, Diablo III expansion coming out in March... My wallet is going to hate me. Good thing I have two weeks of vacation in March and a tax return coming in soon.
I wonder how much plastic card in would need to make this look more like a mini warhound. I for one really don't like the way it looks, granted on my work computer only one of the pictures shows up so it might be a lot better than I think. This and the new plastic storm troopers make me wonder who got canned and who replaced them. Along with the rumored plastic salamanders my attention to new 40k sky rocketed.
Yep, could be a real expensive month...OR you could hold off on the Knights until you see what goodies FW come up with to customise them.
"Plastic Salamanders"? I hadn't heard about them - interesting. (I take it you're talking fire-loving, dark-skinned, Primarch Vulkan-type Salamanders, and not...lizards?)
"Plastic Salamanders"? I hadn't heard about them - interesting. (I take it you're talking fire-loving, dark-skinned, Primarch Vulkan-type Salamanders, and not...lizards?)
Salamaders as in IG transports with auto cannons .
20 USD for a transfer sheet? Seriously? Even if this was A3, this would still mean like 20000% of the material costs in revenue. I wonder who would even consider this.
"Plastic Salamanders"? I hadn't heard about them - interesting. (I take it you're talking fire-loving, dark-skinned, Primarch Vulkan-type Salamanders, and not...lizards?)
Salamaders as in IG transports with auto cannons .
angelofvengeance wrote: I can see a few Game of Thrones ideas being thrown at these lol. Targaryen, Stark, Baratheon, Lannister, Greyjoy, Arryn, Tully etc etc
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Do you really want to see your models die a terrible and cruel and inescapable death ?
Well no, but then again nobody has to worry about GRRM deciding they die (unless he's a GM or Tournie Official lol).
Besides- what do we say to the God of Death? Not today...
Kosake wrote: 20 USD for a transfer sheet? Seriously? Even if this was A3, this would still mean like 20000% of the material costs in revenue. I wonder who would even consider this.
Fluffwise the Knight Households often have their own quasi-planetary defense forces. So there is always a possibility of having a decal sheet with Knight transfers for tanks and infantry models as well. That wouldn't be that illogical.
Kosake wrote: 20 USD for a transfer sheet? Seriously? Even if this was A3, this would still mean like 20000% of the material costs in revenue. I wonder who would even consider this.
I'm sure a lot of GW fans will buy it.
It's almost the same price as an A4 Forge World transfer sheet, and plenty of people purchase those.
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BrookM wrote: Seeing as that's what I'm going for with my Guard right about now, I for one would actually like that a lot.
I've been meaning of making some guard allies for my Raven Guard. I'll probably just make them a PDF with a Knight from the planet that Deliverance orbits.
For now it seems only IG and SM get to use them as allies. There's still hope, though. FW might release some conversion kits and rules for Chaos Knights, or even GW could do that in the near future.
Well it's $20, not 20 pounds, that's more like 12 pounds. But yeah, I'll wait until I see them, it might come with transfers in the kit and you can just pay for extras. GW have sold additional transfer sheets in the past.
If the transfers do cost that much and there aren't any in the box, I probably won't be buying any.
The Knight isn't really THAT big, so I'm a bit disappointed at the price, was hoping for something close to the Wraithknight, given it's shorter but bulkier.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Well it's $20, not 20 pounds, that's more like 12 pounds. But yeah, I'll wait until I see them, it might come with transfers in the kit and you can just pay for extras. GW have sold additional transfer sheets in the past.
If the transfers do cost that much and there aren't any in the box, I probably won't be buying any.
I'm exactly the same - hoping they're additional sheets...because I won't be buying them otherwise.
I think that's got to be the case though...cause otherwise it's a whole new level of bulls%^&e that GW will have stooped to.
$170 for the Knight huh? I am pleasantly surprised about that, was expecting it to be in the $200's. Now to work out a nice way to fit it into my SM army...
Cant wait for the knights, what are these noble families anyway? Are knights piloted by members of a noble house?
When they first came out (Epic, circa 92?), Knights were manned by the households of the noble families that Governed Maiden/Garden world. The knights themselves were to herd Dinosaurs (made of sweet sweet meat) that supplied Hiveworlds, but they also doubled up for defence duty.
I don't think they retconned that but they used to have cool Electric/Physic dischargers to herd dino burgers about. Think giant cattle prods that could be used in CC. One had a groin mounted Heavy Stubber too!
So $210 US to get your first Knight. Yeah, I can see these selling like hotcakes alright. /sarcasmoff
GWs desperation for cash is really starting to show....
I also love how the prices are even higher than conversion rates for Canada. A $140 knight in the US should be about $153 Canadian. Instead it is $170 Canadian.
My bet, we'll have plastic titans coming in Summer of this year. Those will go for about $350 a kit and GW will expect players to scoop them up by the thousands. Because according to current GW management, our hobby is BUYING GW product....
I am actually surprised they offer separate Transfers.
It would allow people with 3rd party products like PP Colossals or DF Leviathans to use them for a bit more 40K styling. Seem, contrary to the auto-haters, a rather genuinely cool move by GW.
And as above, I don't think the existence of a separate transfer sheet means there'll be no transfers in the box. I could be wrong though.
So $210 US to get your first Knight. Yeah, I can see these selling like hotcakes alright. /sarcasmoff
GWs desperation for cash is really starting to show....
I also love how the prices are even higher than conversion rates for Canada. A $140 knight in the US should be about $153 Canadian. Instead it is $170 Canadian.
My bet, we'll have plastic titans coming in Summer of this year. Those will go for about $350 a kit and GW will expect players to scoop them up by the thousands. Because according to current GW management, our hobby is BUYING GW product....
Its because its compared to the British pound not the US dollar. It gets really annoying when its stuff that is made in the US.
I don't see why people think $140 for these things is okay. Unless everyone is scaling this thing completely wrong, its only a little taller than a trygon. Its really not that big. When you compare a stomper, which is massive at 115, this thing is an absolute rip off.
Goresaw wrote: I don't see why people think $140 for these things is okay. Unless everyone is scaling this thing completely wrong, its only a little taller than a trygon. Its really not that big. When you compare a stomper, which is massive at 115, this thing is an absolute rip off.
Because DreamForge Leviathans are RRP USD 157,50 + USD 45,50 for extra weapons (while the Knight has all options included).
PP Colossals are RRP USD 162,- or thereabouts.
It's not a cheap kit by GW standards, admittedly, but even a pricy GW kit is still more affordable than the rest of the "wargaming industry".
So $210 US to get your first Knight. Yeah, I can see these selling like hotcakes alright. /sarcasmoff
GWs desperation for cash is really starting to show....
I also love how the prices are even higher than conversion rates for Canada. A $140 knight in the US should be about $153 Canadian. Instead it is $170 Canadian.
My bet, we'll have plastic titans coming in Summer of this year. Those will go for about $350 a kit and GW will expect players to scoop them up by the thousands. Because according to current GW management, our hobby is BUYING GW product....
Its because its compared to the British pound not the US dollar. It gets really annoying when its stuff that is made in the US.
Goresaw wrote: I don't see why people think $140 for these things is okay. Unless everyone is scaling this thing completely wrong, its only a little taller than a trygon. Its really not that big. When you compare a stomper, which is massive at 115, this thing is an absolute rip off.
It is a rip off and yeah it's not great value, but at the end of the day if the model is cool, it's still worth it to me. Though I will definitely be getting it from discounters.
I increasingly find myself buying stuff from FW because it looks cool even though it's far worse value-per-model than GW stuff, let alone other companies.
Goresaw wrote: I don't see why people think $140 for these things is okay. Unless everyone is scaling this thing completely wrong, its only a little taller than a trygon. Its really not that big. When you compare a stomper, which is massive at 115, this thing is an absolute rip off.
Same was said about the riptide being $100 and the wraithknight being $140 but they became part of most peoples collections. If this thing manages to break past the super heavy bans then it'll be a regular staple. And if it can allied in with tau or eldar you are going to see some of the stupidest combinations this game has ever seen.
People will buy this model. Folks said the same thing about the Wraithknight and I know I see one to two in nearly every Eldar army. Same thing with the Riptide.
I expect to see fully painted Knights all over the internet by the end of March.
Because DreamForge Leviathans are RRP USD 157,50 + USD 45,50 for extra weapons (while the Knight has all options included).
The Crusader is $120 and the Mortis $110. Extra weapons are $35.00.
I suspect the Knight will have two weapon options included. The two we have seen so far. With other, possibly much more effective, weapons being FW. But that is my opinion.
If I were GW I would have shot for a $110 price point, making the knight a clear winner. As it is there will be a lot of DF Knights being used. Not least because many people already own them and are looking for an excuse to use them. I like the knight model, and will probably pick one up. But if I were to say wish to field a knight household, DF would be my go to models, Online they are under $100 each, $120 in the local store if he decided to carry them with this change to 40k.
Because DreamForge Leviathans are RRP USD 157,50 + USD 45,50 for extra weapons (while the Knight has all options included).
The Crusader is $120 and the Mortis $110. Extra weapons are $35.00.
I suspect the Knight will have two weapon options included. The two we have seen so far. With other, possibly much more effective, weapons being FW. But that is my opinion.
If I were GW I would have shot for a $110 price point, making the knight a clear winner. As it is there will be a lot of DF Knights being used. Not least because many people already own them and are looking for an excuse to use them. I like the knight model, and will probably pick one up. But if I were to say wish to field a knight household, DF would be my go to models, Online they are under $100 each, $120 in the local store if he decided to carry them with this change to 40k.
waaayyyyy back in this thread, it was already covered what a retailer (same one that posted pic of cover) saw in the kit (mentioned on BoLS).... "...lots of skulls, banners, multiple head options, big fist, chainsword arm, shielded cannon arm, a large gatling weapon..." , and more, ....etc.....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pretre wrote: Aren't the 15mm DF models the ones that are the right size, not the 28mm? And those are only $50.
this thread is getting so redundant! waaayyyyy back, it was covered the 15mm is 4.5" tall & the 28mm is 8.5" tall (and 2" bigger in diameter).... the IK is supposedly 7" tall....
Automatically Appended Next Post: for $20 I can get a 5.75" lost planet 2 ptx-140 to go with my DKOK army....better aesthetic for my army & on converted base = 7"....
Automatically Appended Next Post: also, Titanfall action figs are coming of Dec 2014, they are going to be 1/35th scale (6-7" tall).....
waaayyyyy back in this thread, it was already covered what a retailer (same one that posted pic of cover) saw in the kit (mentioned on BoLS).... "...lots of skulls, banners, multiple head options, big fist, chainsword arm, shielded cannon arm, a large gatling weapon..." , and more, ....etc.....
That would be excellent. I missed it somehow when I read the entire thread.
for $20 I can get a 5.75" lost planet 2 ptx-140 to go with my DKOK army....better aesthetic for my army & on converted base = 7"....
Not an aesthetic I like, but great for you.
also, Titanfall action figs are coming of Dec 2014, they are going to be 1/35th scale (6-7" tall).....
Dec 2014....
Also there are the 7" Pacific Rim toys. For those looking for a different aesthetic.
Aside from the fact it apparently costs the same, kit pricing is less to do with the overall size of the finished model and more to do with the number of sprues, and consequently the number of moulds that need to be developed.
While the Knight isn't as bulky as the Baneblade! it might require multiple sprues in order to work, then factor in that GW are now introducing their price rises on a launch by launch basis rather than once a year, and here we are, likely fewer sprues but incorporating a price rise = same price.
pretre wrote: Aren't the 15mm DF models the ones that are the right size, not the 28mm? And those are only $50.
I believe they are 4.7 inch, so with a bulky base it should be good to go. This is what I was thinking of doing (GW one costs to much IMO), though I cant see any weapons options for it. I was going to use this to get back into 40k (love the fluff, just not the rules), especially with the rumour of mechanicus being in the book but if I cant get any weapon options for the DF one I may have to bow out. I was going to get back into 40k with the new Sisters, but no plastics were released, I then was going to get back into it with the codex Inquisition, but it wasn't what I was looking for. I have some battlesuits lying around that I enjoyed painting (well one of them painted!) So I may still do a farsight enclave for an all battlesuit army.
waaayyyyy back in this thread, it was already covered what a retailer (same one that posted pic of cover) saw in the kit (mentioned on BoLS).... "...lots of skulls, banners, multiple head options, big fist, chainsword arm, shielded cannon arm, a large gatling weapon..." , and more, ....etc.....
That would be excellent. I missed it somehow when I read the entire thread.
for $20 I can get a 5.75" lost planet 2 ptx-140 to go with my DKOK army....better aesthetic for my army & on converted base = 7"....
Not an aesthetic I like, but great for you.
also, Titanfall action figs are coming of Dec 2014, they are going to be 1/35th scale (6-7" tall).....
Dec 2014....
Also there are the 7" Pacific Rim toys. For those looking for a different aesthetic.
waaayyyyy back in this thread, it was already covered what a retailer (same one that posted pic of cover) saw in the kit (mentioned on BoLS).... "...lots of skulls, banners, multiple head options, big fist, chainsword arm, shielded cannon arm, a large gatling weapon..." , and more, ....etc.....
That would be excellent. I missed it somehow when I read the entire thread.
for $20 I can get a 5.75" lost planet 2 ptx-140 to go with my DKOK army....better aesthetic for my army & on converted base = 7"....
Not an aesthetic I like, but great for you.
also, Titanfall action figs are coming of Dec 2014, they are going to be 1/35th scale (6-7" tall).....
Dec 2014....
Also there are the 7" Pacific Rim toys. For those looking for a different aesthetic.
waaayyyyy back in this thread, it was already covered what a retailer (same one that posted pic of cover) saw in the kit (mentioned on BoLS).... "...lots of skulls, banners, multiple head options, big fist, chainsword arm, shielded cannon arm, a large gatling weapon..." , and more, ....etc.....
That would be excellent. I missed it somehow when I read the entire thread.
for $20 I can get a 5.75" lost planet 2 ptx-140 to go with my DKOK army....better aesthetic for my army & on converted base = 7"....
Not an aesthetic I like, but great for you.
also, Titanfall action figs are coming of Dec 2014, they are going to be 1/35th scale (6-7" tall).....
Dec 2014....
Also there are the 7" Pacific Rim toys. For those looking for a different aesthetic.
pretre wrote: Aren't the 15mm DF models the ones that are the right size, not the 28mm? And those are only $50.
I believe they are 4.7 inch, so with a bulky base it should be good to go. This is what I was thinking of doing (GW one costs to much IMO), though I cant see any weapons options for it. I was going to use this to get back into 40k (love the fluff, just not the rules), especially with the rumour of mechanicus being in the book but if I cant get any weapon options for the DF one I may have to bow out. I was going to get back into 40k with the new Sisters, but no plastics were released, I then was going to get back into it with the codex Inquisition, but it wasn't what I was looking for. I have some battlesuits lying around that I enjoyed painting (well one of them painted!) So I may still do a farsight enclave for an all battlesuit army.
I got 4.5" right off Dreamforges website, regardless, the pic of the IK with Eldar Avatar (4.6" , at sword tip, tall from FW), says it all... The 15mm DF model would look like an oversized dread or a baby knight...
I've heard estimates of 190mm tall (with wraithknights at 230mm, and warhounds at 270mm) from comparing it to the Trigon (or whatever that bug is) which is said to be 150mm tall depending on the pose.
So roughly 7.5 inches tall for the Knight with the wraithknight being held a 9 inch. So that's not that bad. Big bulky of course but 7.5 inches sound right with the description I keep hearing of a Knight being "between a Riptide and Wraithknight".
Best guess is they stand on the same base as the WK, which is the flyer base.
Because DreamForge Leviathans are RRP USD 157,50 + USD 45,50 for extra weapons (while the Knight has all options included).
The Crusader is $120 and the Mortis $110. Extra weapons are $35.00.
Not this side of the pond, they are not. Crusader is USD 157,55 (and with discount, it ends up around USD 126,- though GW kits will also have a ~ 15% to 20% discount from most etailers).
Could be an import thing though, meaning Crusaders end up cheaper than GW Knights in the states, but more expensive than GW Knights east of the Atlantic.
Because DreamForge Leviathans are RRP USD 157,50 + USD 45,50 for extra weapons (while the Knight has all options included).
The Crusader is $120 and the Mortis $110. Extra weapons are $35.00.
Not this side of the pond, they are not. Crusader is USD 157,55 (and with discount, it ends up around USD 126,- though GW kits will also have a ~ 15% to 20% discount from most etailers).
Could be an import thing though, meaning Crusaders end up cheaper than GW Knights in the states, but more expensive than GW Knights east of the Atlantic.
Well direct from DF is 98 usd, granted it does not come with the same equipment, but honestly you could use it box standard for all the dif it makes, it is not like there is going to be 8 leviathans on the table all with different gear.
Because DreamForge Leviathans are RRP USD 157,50 + USD 45,50 for extra weapons (while the Knight has all options included).
The Crusader is $120 and the Mortis $110. Extra weapons are $35.00.
Not this side of the pond, they are not. Crusader is USD 157,55 (and with discount, it ends up around USD 126,- though GW kits will also have a ~ 15% to 20% discount from most etailers).
Could be an import thing though, meaning Crusaders end up cheaper than GW Knights in the states, but more expensive than GW Knights east of the Atlantic.
Well direct from DF is 98 usd, granted it does not come with the same equipment, but honestly you could use it box standard for all the dif it makes.
I still have a Crusader and a Mortis from the Kickstarter. But Shipping directly from DF for a Crusader is USD 58,- meaning it's USD 156,- already. Add 20% import tax and possibly a customes handling charge, and you're looking at close to USD 200,- . GW ships for free. No tax.
DF Leviathan is RRP USD 157,55 on Wayland, or 126ish after Wayland discount. Or GBP 95,- RRP, 76 after discount
GW Knight will be RRP USD 140,- on Wayland, or 112 to 119ish after Wayland discount (ya know, just like the Baneblade). Or GBP 85,- RRP, 72,50 after discount
Guys, as much as I love both products, can we drop that line of discussion? It's seriously been done to death. There's really not much more to say about it until we get to see the Knight sprues and how posable they are, how many weapons they come with, etc...
Any speculation as to when the book will hit, and if it will be a physical book rather than digital? I'm surprised they're putting out the knight and the IG 'dex the same weekend... hoping to get people to buy the knight and then be on the hook for getting the rules later, I guess?
angelofvengeance wrote: Well no, but then again nobody has to worry about GRRM deciding they die (unless he's a GM or Tournie Official lol).
Go away, I haven't read all the books yet
Yeah, I know. I was just trolling. The spoilers are actually empty. I have not finished reading the books too. The only thing we can be sure of, though, is that peoples will die !
I foresee another upcoming problem with the upcoming knights for those who own the Dreamforge Leviathan.
After all, it's only a matter of time until a leviathan counting as a knight and one counting as a warhound show up on the same table...
Engine of War wrote: I've heard estimates of 190mm tall (with wraithknights at 230mm, and warhounds at 270mm) from comparing it to the Trigon (or whatever that bug is) which is said to be 150mm tall depending on the pose.
So roughly 7.5 inches tall for the Knight with the wraithknight being held a 9 inch. So that's not that bad. Big bulky of course but 7.5 inches sound right with the description I keep hearing of a Knight being "between a Riptide and Wraithknight".
Best guess is they stand on the same base as the WK, which is the flyer base.
We have been hearing that the size is "over 150mm", which in GW speak usually means "just over 150mm". If it was 7.5", they would be saying "over 190mm".
Based on scaling the photos we have seen, the base has to be the Mumak base (7" x 5.5"/180 x 140mm). If it were on a WK/flyer 120mm base the knight would be under 5" tall. See my post on page 35 for a scaled pic with the base 7" long and print it out. If its on a 7" Mumak base, the knight is just over 6" tall.
DF Leviathan is RRP USD 157,55 on Wayland, or 126ish after Wayland discount. Or GBP 95,- RRP, 76 after discount
GW Knight will be RRP USD 140,- on Wayland, or 112 to 119ish after Wayland discount (ya know, just like the Baneblade). Or GBP 85,- RRP, 72,50 after discount
GW Knight wins.
Didnt notice your link. Also wasn't trying to argue anything, just posting up a price.
Guys since im not familiar with the escalation rules i want to ask something that has not been mentioned as far as i know.
The Knight is a SH walker right? Since its a walker doesnt that mean that it can be repaired? Am i missing something?
Are SH not repaired like regular walkers? Because if that is the case allying a Knight to a SM army with IHCT and a MotF(or 2)
and some servitors... maybe... will be well... great!!! It potentially doubles its survaivability right? I must be missing something...
please do let me know. Thanx in advance!
You can do all the jethro hillbilly figurin' and numbers ciphering you want.... It was clearly stated "...about an inch less than the wraithknight ..." And that wk is 9" tall... So the imp knight must be a min 7.5" to 8" tall.... Depending on configuration....The epicast 28mm was 8" to 9" tall... Over at warseer someone took an epic Titan and epic knight and looked at height of 28mm Titan and did the math and figured 8" for a 28mm knight...
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: You can do all the jethro hillbilly figurin' and numbers ciphering you want.... It was clearly stated "...about an inch less than the wraithknight ..." And that wk is 9" tall... So the ok must be a min 7.5" to 8" tall.... Depending on configuration....The epicast 28mm was 8" to 9" tall... Over at warseer someone took an epic Titan and epic knight and looked at height of 28mm Titan and did the math and figured 8" for a 28mm knight...
Where has this been "clearly stated?"
I'm trying to keep the OP up to date, and I haven't seen this.
Equally, you can't take any sense of logic about scale and transfer it to GW models, they just don't roll that way.
There is a pic of new imp knight next to eldar avatar that is 4.5" tall.... Someone with time on there hands needs to get pic of ruler in between them making sure avatar top is at 4.5....
RiTides wrote: Any speculation as to when the book will hit, and if it will be a physical book rather than digital? I'm surprised they're putting out the knight and the IG 'dex the same weekend... hoping to get people to buy the knight and then be on the hook for getting the rules later, I guess?
Do we still think the IG codex is a March release? It's got to be April, at this point. No way GW would try to shoehorn two huge releases like this into the same weekend, or even month.
RiTides wrote: Any speculation as to when the book will hit, and if it will be a physical book rather than digital? I'm surprised they're putting out the knight and the IG 'dex the same weekend... hoping to get people to buy the knight and then be on the hook for getting the rules later, I guess?
Do we still think the IG codex is a March release? It's got to be April, at this point. No way GW would try to shoehorn two huge releases like this into the same weekend, or even month.
It's one kit, it just happens to be a highly anticipated one which has garnered an enthusiastic reception because it is made from awesominium
With the new weekly release cycle, we really can't call what will be month X or Y now, because GW can be totally flexible week to week. Frankly, they could have the next 2 months new stuff sat in their distribution centres, and almost decide week to week what to send out if they felt like it.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: There is a pic of new imp knight next to eldar avatar that is 4.5" tall.... Someone with time on there hands needs to get pic of ruler in between them making sure avatar top is at 4.5....
the avatar in the pic is the FW avatar i do believe
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: There is a pic of new imp knight next to eldar avatar that is 4.5" tall.... Someone with time on there hands needs to get pic of ruler in between them making sure avatar top is at 4.5....
No way the Knight is over 6" based on that picture. I think 15cm will hold up.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: There is a pic of new imp knight next to eldar avatar that is 4.5" tall.... Someone with time on there hands needs to get pic of ruler in between them making sure avatar top is at 4.5....
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: You can do all the jethro hillbilly figurin' and numbers ciphering you want.... It was clearly stated "...about an inch less than the wraithknight ..." And that wk is 9" tall... So the imp knight must be a min 7.5" to 8" tall.... Depending on configuration....The epicast 28mm was 8" to 9" tall...
Epicast 28mm Knight was less than 6" tall, probably closer to 5.5" tall. I had one.
Most gamers seem to estimate model heights the same optimistic way they estimate the lengths of that specifically male appendage.
Here is a Trygon (5 3/8") tall next to an 6.5" tall Armorcast Towering Destroyer Knight. Note that the head of the Trygon is at chest height to the knight. Note in the WD Trygon/knight pic that the Imperial Knight has its head in its chest and that the Trygons head is the same height as the Imperial Knights head. No way the new Knight is any taller than the Eldar Knight in this photo.
When we were figuring the heights of various models for Armorcast the Imperial knight Paladin came in at 6". The Wraithknight scales up perfectly from the Epic Fire Gale, as does the Armorcast Towering Destroyer. See bottom pic.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: There is a pic of new imp knight next to eldar avatar that is 4.5" tall.... Someone with time on there hands needs to get pic of ruler in between them making sure avatar top is at 4.5....
No way the Knight is over 6" based on that picture. I think 15cm will hold up.
I see I was ninja'd.... 6" it is.
Automatically Appended Next Post: sweet! I can use my lost planet 2 fig I have.... same height!
Anyway... now the Knight comes at the start of next month... does it mean the IG will be the month after that? If so the rumored kits from past weeks might come in the weeks in between?(Like the Chaos Chosen kit that went around in the rumor threads.) I have no idea.
pretre wrote: Aren't the 15mm DF models the ones that are the right size, not the 28mm? And those are only $50.
I believe they are 4.7 inch, so with a bulky base it should be good to go.
DF also released a limited edition 5.5" tall resin version. Mine should work well for a knight using the extra weapons from the GW kit...
T
They did indeed, and I had a bunch! Still have 4 . However, I don't think I'll ever field more than one knight, so will use GW's. Hoping to model my 15mm Leviathans slightly lower and use them as tall Ironclads to go with the big GW kit . Should look pretty sweet!
Just to refer back to the discussion about decals earlier, there are companies that make sheets of decals with Heraldic Imagery for historical knights etc..
I personally plan to source some of these, because I'm a special snowflake and my knight(s) won't be rocking the same devices as every other pleb!
People have my permission to use this idea, on the understanding that I will petulantly drop kick your model across the room if I ever see it IRL and it has the same ones as mine!
Goresaw wrote: I don't see why people think $140 for these things is okay. Unless everyone is scaling this thing completely wrong, its only a little taller than a trygon. Its really not that big. When you compare a stomper, which is massive at 115, this thing is an absolute rip off.
Same was said about the riptide being $100 and the wraithknight being $140 but they became part of most peoples collections. If this thing manages to break past the super heavy bans then it'll be a regular staple. And if it can allied in with tau or eldar you are going to see some of the stupidest combinations this game has ever seen.
I only bought my Riptide because there was a 30% discount. The idea of spending more than £50 on a model is just insane, I'm hoping a lot of people did the same. Wayland games were out of stock for a good while after on Tau goods
Aside from the fact it apparently costs the same, kit pricing is less to do with the overall size of the finished model and more to do with the number of sprues, and consequently the number of moulds that need to be developed.
While the Knight isn't as bulky as the Baneblade! it might require multiple sprues in order to work, then factor in that GW are now introducing their price rises on a launch by launch basis rather than once a year, and here we are, likely fewer sprues but incorporating a price rise = same price.
The problem there is that is actually a sensible way of pricing a model kit, but GW instead just likes to throw a dart at the wall to see what price tag they hit with it.
The idea of anything in this hobby being a 'rip off' is ridiculous. It either has value to you equal to the cost and you buy it, or it doesn't and you don't.
I will be buying thirty of them and dressing my eldest son up as their leader.
BakAG wrote: Guys since im not familiar with the escalation rules i want to ask something that has not been mentioned as far as i know.
The Knight is a SH walker right? Since its a walker doesnt that mean that it can be repaired? Am i missing something?
Are SH not repaired like regular walkers? Because if that is the case allying a Knight to a SM army with IHCT and a MotF(or 2)
and some servitors... maybe... will be well... great!!! It potentially doubles its survaivability right? I must be missing something...
please do let me know. Thanx in advance!
I like that idea because I run two MOTF and a tech marine in my army. I usually never get to repair anything because vehicles just go pop, but this just might work.
Tannhauser42 wrote: As a superheavy, when it dies, you have to use that big huge template to determine who gets hit by the massive explosion..
Ah, ok.
In that case, the bigger problem would be not the price, but the fact that the Apocalypse templates are no longer available, and haven't been since the week the new Apocalypse was released.
Tannhauser42 wrote: As a superheavy, when it dies, you have to use that big huge template to determine who gets hit by the massive explosion..
Ah, ok.
In that case, the bigger problem would be not the price, but the fact that the Apocalypse templates are no longer available, and haven't been since the week the new Apocalypse was released.
Games Workshop wrote:This box set contains three types of templates for use in your games of Apocalypse. The Apocalyptic Mega Blast Template is truly massive. At 15" in diameter it's the biggest template we've ever made (so big that it comes in 4 separate parts that need to be clipped together). It contains measurements for 4 sizes of templates, at diameters of 5", 7", 10" and 15".
The Hellstorm Template is the largest flamer template available. Over 16" in length, and 5" wide, it includes both the standard flamer and Hellstorm Template within its design.
Finally, the Apocalyptic Barrage Marker is made of 5 clip together, ordnance sized templates (that's a 5" diameter on each template to you and me).
These are an essential purchase for anyone who wants to play games of Apocalypse.
Availability: No Longer Available Part Code: 99220199050
BakAG wrote: Guys since im not familiar with the escalation rules i want to ask something that has not been mentioned as far as i know.
The Knight is a SH walker right? Since its a walker doesnt that mean that it can be repaired? Am i missing something?
Are SH not repaired like regular walkers? Because if that is the case allying a Knight to a SM army with IHCT and a MotF(or 2)
and some servitors... maybe... will be well... great!!! It potentially doubles its survaivability right? I must be missing something...
please do let me know. Thanx in advance!
I like that idea because I run two MOTF and a tech marine in my army. I usually never get to repair anything because vehicles just go pop, but this just might work.
Nope, won't work. No repairing Allied vehicles per BRBFAQ.
The old blast marker was smaller. If you need the 15" one, the old one's not going to be much use.
It does raise the question of why they would be selling the old templates when at least 2 of them don't fit the current rules... but not selling the new ones.Or at least the question of why, if they still had so many of the old ones left, they would change them for the new Apocalypse release.
Not as bad I suppose, and I suspect the new ones will suddenly and miraculously become available once they've got shot of all the old ones.
I'd definitely want the 'poseable' barrage template over the four leaf clover one though.
Weirdly, I went to the exact same location in the site, searched for 'apocalypse' and 'templates' as separate searches and as one phrase, and the site never showed me those, only the newer, unavailable, blue ones. Odd....
The old blast marker was smaller. If you need the 15" one, the old one's not going to be much use.
It does raise the question of why they would be selling the old templates when at least 2 of them don't fit the current rules... but not selling the new ones.Or at least the question of why, if they still had so many of the old ones left, they would change them for the new Apocalypse release.
thew old ones will work with some tape measureing I guess but yeah, it is a bit odd
Well i just did some calculations based on the US price in the Imperial Knight and it will come out roughly $240 Australian Dollars/$270 New Zealand Dollars while the Dreamforge Crusader from Wayland will be $143 Australian Dollars thats $97 Australian cheaper to get the dreamforge kit.
Achaylus72 wrote: Well i just did some calculations based on the US price in the Imperial Knight and it will come out roughly $240 Australian Dollars/$270 New Zealand Dollars...
No idea what you're basing your calculations on, but that's unlikely given that it's CAN$170.
The Baneblade is US$140, and OZ$165. I would expect the Knight to be the same in Oz, given the same US price.
DF Leviathan is RRP USD 157,55 on Wayland, or 126ish after Wayland discount. Or GBP 95,- RRP, 76 after discount
GW Knight will be RRP USD 140,- on Wayland, or 112 to 119ish after Wayland discount (ya know, just like the Baneblade). Or GBP 85,- RRP, 72,50 after discount
bodazoka wrote: This is how I sum up the 90% of the last 50 posts..
"Ermagherd the price *heavy breath" ... doesn't play an army that can ally the knight, buy's one anyway
"Ermagherd the price *heavy breath" ... Buy's 3 of them
"Ermagherd the price *heavy breath" ... Play's warmachine
What about "people bitching about people bitching about the price of the model?" Surely that merits inclusion on your wee list? Also, I should point out that ascribing actions to posters like you're doing there is pretty much the opposite of "summing up", better known as "inventing stuff wholesale to suit your own limited preconceptions."
I won't buy one of these, nor do I play Warmachine, so when I say the price is too damn high, you can't spout your tired catchphrases in response like a mentally challenged parrot. Your little comedy routine might work on 4chan or wherever people like you congregate these days, but it can only made the judicious grieve.
Achaylus72 wrote: Well i just did some calculations based on the US price in the Imperial Knight and it will come out roughly $240 Australian Dollars/$270 New Zealand Dollars while the Dreamforge Crusader from Wayland will be $143 Australian Dollars thats $97 Australian cheaper to get the dreamforge kit.
The Escalation book gives you the sizes of the templates, yeah? So use a compass and make your own?
But yeah, I measured my Trygon, it's 130mm tall, I measured the head of my Trygon as a reference, then added the appropriate height to get to the Knight. By my calcs, the Knight is 150-155mm to the top of it's hunch. (5.9 to 6.1")
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The Escalation book gives you the sizes of the templates, yeah? So use a compass and make your own?
But yeah, I measured my Trygon, it's 130mm tall, I measured the head of my Trygon as a reference, then added the appropriate height to get to the Knight. By my calcs, the Knight is 150-155mm to the top of it's hunch. (5.9 to 6.1")
I was hoping for something larger, oh well.
You've done the math so you would know but that doesn't sound right. I would have thought it closer to 8 or 9 inches but there you go, still a great looking model.
There are many dick jokes here but they aren't needed.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The Escalation book gives you the sizes of the templates, yeah? So use a compass and make your own?
But yeah, I measured my Trygon, it's 130mm tall, I measured the head of my Trygon as a reference, then added the appropriate height to get to the Knight. By my calcs, the Knight is 150-155mm to the top of it's hunch. (5.9 to 6.1")
I was hoping for something larger, oh well.
You've done the math so you would know but that doesn't sound right. I would have thought it closer to 8 or 9 inches but there you go, still a great looking model.
There are many dick jokes here but they aren't needed.
Not as bad I suppose, and I suspect the new ones will suddenly and miraculously become available once they've got shot of all the old ones.
I'd definitely want the 'poseable' barrage template over the four leaf clover one though.
Weirdly, I went to the exact same location in the site, searched for 'apocalypse' and 'templates' as separate searches and as one phrase, and the site never showed me those, only the newer, unavailable, blue ones. Odd....
The way I see it is its the same price as a tank of fuel. I will probably spend more time painting and assembling the model than that tank of fuel will last.
Man math.......making unnecessary purchases possible
I mentioned that last week, a few times actually. Back then, it was sitting at £40, not £55.
MAYBE THAT IS THE GAME GW PLAYS! They monitor how excited we are a week or so before a release and judge how much the price is gonna jump from what it would be from any reasonable not money grubbing fun sucking corporation who loves their customers and letting them play a game
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The Escalation book gives you the sizes of the templates, yeah? So use a compass and make your own?
But yeah, I measured my Trygon, it's 130mm tall, I measured the head of my Trygon as a reference, then added the appropriate height to get to the Knight. By my calcs, the Knight is 150-155mm to the top of it's hunch. (5.9 to 6.1")
I was hoping for something larger, oh well.
You've done the math so you would know but that doesn't sound right. I would have thought it closer to 8 or 9 inches but there you go, still a great looking model.
There are many dick jokes here but they aren't needed.
Who is joking?
Well no one has made a dick joke about my post, the inches it looks like and the inches measured. There is maybe 85 jokes that could be made about things a certain size looking bigger to me, me adding a few inches to the models height and measuring the head of a trygon...a long erect snake like fella.
What's important is I thought the Knight would be bigger than the measurements predicted using some math.
I mentioned that last week, a few times actually. Back then, it was sitting at £40, not £55.
And your point is, exactly...what? Where did you mention it, in what thread, and what does it have to do with me being courteous to the bloke who brought us the Leviathan?
I mentioned that last week, a few times actually. Back then, it was sitting at £40, not £55.
But again, it's not really comparable, as long as we don't know how deep a discount we'll find for the GW Knight. Comparing RRP vs. RRP is a fair benchmark. Comparing a GW RRP vs. a deep discount from one etailer is a fallacy, just like it would be comparing the DF Leviathan at RRP with a GW Knight at 20% discount from Wayland Games.
Hell, there are already offers for the Knight with ~ USD 25,- discount out there, before it's even released (!!). If you look (and willing to wait), you'll probably find discounts similar to the Northstar one for the Leviathan for the GW Knight as well.
Daston wrote: The way I see it is its the same price as a tank of fuel. I will probably spend more time painting and assembling the model than that tank of fuel will last.
Man math.......making unnecessary purchases possible
Where do you live and what do you drive that a tank of fuel costs that much? I thought Australian prices were bad, my car runs on premium and it still doesn't cost that much to fill, lol.
Agamemnon2 wrote: What about "people bitching about people bitching about the price of the model?" Surely that merits inclusion on your wee list? Also, I should point out that ascribing actions to posters like you're doing there is pretty much the opposite of "summing up", better known as "inventing stuff wholesale to suit your own limited preconceptions."
I won't buy one of these, nor do I play Warmachine, so when I say the price is too damn high, you can't spout your tired catchphrases in response like a mentally challenged parrot. Your little comedy routine might work on 4chan or wherever people like you congregate these days, but it can only made the judicious grieve.
Chill out dude... its plastic toys.
Forgot to mention if you can find a cheaper alternative I'm all ears... No one has as yet.
Agamemnon2 wrote: What about "people bitching about people bitching about the price of the model?" Surely that merits inclusion on your wee list? Also, I should point out that ascribing actions to posters like you're doing there is pretty much the opposite of "summing up", better known as "inventing stuff wholesale to suit your own limited preconceptions."
I won't buy one of these, nor do I play Warmachine, so when I say the price is too damn high, you can't spout your tired catchphrases in response like a mentally challenged parrot. Your little comedy routine might work on 4chan or wherever people like you congregate these days, but it can only made the judicious grieve.
Chill out dude... its plastic toys.
Dude...these are plastic toys! Why arent you freaking out more?!?!
Father Gabe on Faeit 212 wrote:1) The models in the White Dwarf are resin versions of the Imperial Knights. The actual plastic versions are a bit more streamed lined and will look slightly different. Kit contains (3) different heads.
2) The transfer sheet has approximately 250(+) decals. They contain decals for the following: Various Knight Households, Adeptus Mechanicus and Freelance versions. Before anyone asks, no I don't know if this means there are rules for these (3) factions or if it will be included in a book, etc. I should know more very soon.
3) Not a lot of info on Codex: Legion of the Damned beyond awesome artwork. The information that was provided was similar to the White Dwarf leak, mentioning they can be used as allies. Whether or not it can be used as a normal army.
Father Gabe on Faeit 212 wrote:1) The models in the White Dwarf are resin versions of the Imperial Knights. The actual plastic versions are a bit more streamed lined and will look slightly different. Kit contains (3) different heads.
2) The transfer sheet has approximately 250(+) decals. They contain decals for the following: Various Knight Households, Adeptus Mechanicus and Freelance versions. Before anyone asks, no I don't know if this means there are rules for these (3) factions or if it will be included in a book, etc. I should know more very soon.
3) Not a lot of info on Codex: Legion of the Damned beyond awesome artwork. The information that was provided was similar to the White Dwarf leak, mentioning they can be used as allies. Whether or not it can be used as a normal army.
Resin master? Do they mean 3D printed like the Dwarf models?
Father Gabe on Faeit 212 wrote:1) The models in the White Dwarf are resin versions of the Imperial Knights. The actual plastic versions are a bit more streamed lined and will look slightly different. Kit contains (3) different heads.
2) The transfer sheet has approximately 250(+) decals. They contain decals for the following: Various Knight Households, Adeptus Mechanicus and Freelance versions. Before anyone asks, no I don't know if this means there are rules for these (3) factions or if it will be included in a book, etc. I should know more very soon.
3) Not a lot of info on Codex: Legion of the Damned beyond awesome artwork. The information that was provided was similar to the White Dwarf leak, mentioning they can be used as allies. Whether or not it can be used as a normal army.
Resin master? Do they mean 3D printed like the Dwarf models?
GW sculpts their models digitally, than they print them to make molds, cast resin masters and finally go into production.
There hasn't been a painted plastic model on a GW box in years. 'Eavy Metal always paints resin masters.
The painted Dwarf models were not the 3D printed ones, but resin masters as well. It simply had print-lines from the 3D prints showing in the molds made from the 3D prints.
Thanks for the tip. This pisses me off, very bad form on GW's part not to keep essentials like templates in distribution. It's fun going to random sites like that for what you think is the first time, only to find out on checkout that you've registered there before.
Thanks for the tip. This pisses me off, very bad form on GW's part not to keep essentials like templates in distribution. It's fun going to random sites like that for what you think is the first time, only to find out on checkout that you've registered there before.
I've HEARD that the latest release of apoclypse failed and that was a big part of the reason behind escalation, and presumably knights.
Maybe they wanna ensure there's some sort of demand before they bring in the templates.
They've made the templates, they were a limited Apoc release.
I assume that like plastic kits, all the development costs are loaded at the front end with a product like this, so to keep them unavailable is most likely to try and force sales on the old set, which, as someone else said, begs the question 'why make the change if you've got a load of the old ones still to shift?'
azreal13 wrote: They've made the templates, they were a limited Apoc release.
This. The decision to make them a limited release was made before the new Apocalypse dropped, not as a response to sales.
I assume that like plastic kits, all the development costs are loaded at the front end with a product like this, so to keep them unavailable is most likely to try and force sales on the old set, which, as someone else said, begs the question 'why make the change if you've got a load of the old ones still to shift?'
I doubt that't the reason, since the old templates aren't going to sell to anyone except those still playing the old Apocalypse... who would most likely already have them by now.
I doubt that't the reason, since the old templates aren't going to sell to anyone except those still playing the old Apocalypse... who would most likely already have them by now.
Precisely. But having a bunch of those gathering dust (and costing money) in your warehouse might lead to a decision to say the new ones will be a one-off, buy em while they last.
I cannot wait to see some conversions to War hounds. I've been looking at it and It would be achievable. It would take significant amounts of time. But if someone was to create maybe a "Walker Conversion Kit" for various models....
Elongate the legs, different feet, expand the Carapace and add a new head.
You could even buy the proper FW War hound weapons.
I am excited to see what these models will be used for conversions!
azreal13 wrote: They've made the templates, they were a limited Apoc release.
This. The decision to make them a limited release was made before the new Apocalypse dropped, not as a response to sales.
I assume that like plastic kits, all the development costs are loaded at the front end with a product like this, so to keep them unavailable is most likely to try and force sales on the old set, which, as someone else said, begs the question 'why make the change if you've got a load of the old ones still to shift?'
I doubt that't the reason, since the old templates aren't going to sell to anyone except those still playing the old Apocalypse... who would most likely already have them by now.
I doubt that't the reason, since the old templates aren't going to sell to anyone except those still playing the old Apocalypse... who would most likely already have them by now.
Precisely. But having a bunch of those gathering dust (and costing money) in your warehouse might lead to a decision to say the new ones will be a one-off, buy em while they last.
But the whole problem could have been avoided by not changing the templates!
As it stands, they've paid the development cost on a bunch of new ones, which nobody can buy, and have somewhere between some and a lot of cash tied up in redundant stock that nobody wants.
But the whole problem could have been avoided by not changing the templates!
As it stands, they've paid the development cost on a bunch of new ones, which nobody can buy, and have somewhere between some and a lot of cash tied up in redundant stock that nobody wants.
Perhaps. But if they'd stick with the old templates, the probably would've sold 3 more to the 3 people interested in Apoc that didn't have them.
Now, after the first Apoc, they had a rough idea of how many people are interested in Apoc, and could sell all of them something new, with a one-off production run that was conservatively based on previous Apoc-release sales to be sure to sell out.
Pure speculation on my part and possibly a bit out there but could new templates be included in the rumoured new 7th Edition starter set?
If Escalation and Stronghold are being rolled into the new rulebook this would be a justified reason for doing a new starter set so soon after 6th Edition?
StraightSilver wrote: Pure speculation on my part and possibly a bit out there but could new templates be included in the rumoured new 7th Edition starter set?
If Escalation and Stronghold are being rolled into the new rulebook this would be a justified reason for doing a new starter set so soon after 6th Edition?
The idea is good, but the 40K Radio rumours say that Dark Vengeance will continue to be the starter set for 7th.
Well seems that GW is getting something big and walking for imperials as well.
I had the luck to get all off my Dreamforge "knights" for a very soft price
( IIRC one was a mere 40 pounds UK + 12,50 Courier Shipping )
And looking at the new pictures I can tell that a Crusader minus some armor pieces looks a hell more convincing.
Plusses are:
- Fully poseable
- 200+ parts ( for hours of fun )
- Not covered in skulls
- Weapons can be swapped
- Covers both mentioned models ( Gatling --> fast fire battlecannon, Melta separate model, and big CC weapon )
- You can really fit a humans sized model in the head and still have 13 armor
Minus
- Its slightly bigger
- GW events willl ban you ( but then again their Events KGB goes haywire after spotting a non-sanctioned resin shoulderpad anyhow )
BTW The model itself looks like an copy of the old Epic reaver /armorcast reaver minus the carapace weapon, esp. the legs and feet.
I have no issues with people criticising GW, or anyone but...
Soulhunter wrote: Well seems that GW is getting something big and walking for imperials as well.
I had the luck to get all off my Dreamforge "knights" for a very soft price
( IIRC one was a mere 40 pounds UK + 12,50 Courier Shipping )
And looking at the new pictures I can tell that a Crusader minus some armor pieces looks a hell more convincing.
Plusses are:
- Fully poseablewe have no idea how the GW kit goes together until we at least see sprue pics
- 200+ parts ( for hours of fun )we have no idea how many parts are in the GW kit
- Not covered in skulls neither is the GW one
- Weapons can be swappedso can the GW one
- Covers both mentioned models ( Gatling --> fast fire battlecannon, Melta separate model, and big CC weapon ) so does the GW kit, with a good possibly of more expansion kits via FW, just like the DFG - You can really fit a humans sized model in the head and still have 13 armor and....?
Minus
- Its slightly bigger
- GW events willl ban you ( but then again their Events KGB goes haywire after spotting a non-sanctioned resin shoulderpad anyhow )
BTW The model itself looks like an copy of the old Epic reaver /armorcast reaver minus the carapace weapon, esp. the legs and feet. no, it looks like an old Epic scale knight, up scaled with enough detail to suit the larger scale, and, if anything, looks like a Warlord
azreal13 wrote: I have no issues with people criticising GW, or anyone but...
Soulhunter wrote: Well seems that GW is getting something big and walking for imperials as well.
I had the luck to get all off my Dreamforge "knights" for a very soft price
( IIRC one was a mere 40 pounds UK + 12,50 Courier Shipping )
And looking at the new pictures I can tell that a Crusader minus some armor pieces looks a hell more convincing.
Plusses are:
- Fully poseablewe have no idea how the GW kit goes together until we at least see sprue pics
- 200+ parts ( for hours of fun )we have no idea how many parts are in the GW kit
- Not covered in skulls neither is the GW one
- Weapons can be swappedso can the GW one
- Covers both mentioned models ( Gatling --> fast fire battlecannon, Melta separate model, and big CC weapon ) so does the GW kit, with a good possibly of more expansion kits via FW, just like the DFG - You can really fit a humans sized model in the head and still have 13 armor and....?
Minus
- Its slightly bigger
- GW events willl ban you ( but then again their Events KGB goes haywire after spotting a non-sanctioned resin shoulderpad anyhow )
BTW The model itself looks like an copy of the old Epic reaver /armorcast reaver minus the carapace weapon, esp. the legs and feet. no, it looks like an old Epic scale knight, up scaled with enough detail to suit the larger scale, and, if anything, looks like a Warlord
Ninja'd! I was specifically going to ask about the weapons swap considering its already been said that the Knight kit will have optional weapons...and heads! Oh myyy.
Sorry, that is getting on my nerves, 
Man, rumors of this coming out in March, 
.
I thought Australian prices were bad, my car runs on premium and it still doesn't cost that much to fill, 
goes haywire after spotting a non-sanctioned resin shoulderpad anyhow 