the void raven appears to have a larger base and taller flight stand compared to the razorwings around it, not sure if that's a camera lens trick or real though.
Maybe it will be even harder to hit than normal fliers.
and for the battlereport setup there are 3 void ravens and 1 razorwing. all on the same size bases
SJM wrote: So... Theyre not making plastic grotesques?
That is crazy.
No it isn't. They only update existing models for 1 unit per release now. Well, exception given to orks, miraculously. Wracks were massively more requested.
Not sure, since they make no market research and don't ask what customers want to have.
SJM wrote: So... Theyre not making plastic grotesques?
That is crazy.
No it isn't. They only update existing models for 1 unit per release now. Well, exception given to orks, miraculously. Wracks were massively more requested.
Not sure, since they make no market research and don't ask what customers want to have.
I'll refer you to earlier on where I suspected that this was coincidence.
AzureDeath wrote: So does anyone else remember my Void Raven I constructed outta 2 razorwings a few years back? I think I hit their concept pretty dead on. What ya'll think?
I feel like this is proof anyone can be a games workshop designer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And yes, I think it looks almost identical.
Except the Voidraven was designed and was to be released the same time as the Razorwing, but they had trouble with the cockpit being warped. I assume they fixed the warping issues rather than building the entire thing from scratch, especially when you consider the fact that GW don't give 2 gaks about community, nor do they care about what ever people convert together.
Except the Voidraven was designed and was to be released the same time as the Razorwing, but they had trouble with the cockpit being warped. I assume they fixed the warping issues rather than building the entire thing from scratch
The new kit appears to have 2 weapon options. One would think they would have mentioned the different weapon configuration in the flyer suppliment if they were really that far along.
Of course if the cockpit comes on a different sprue and it also comes with a set of extra weapons, you might be right.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: The fact that GW did not make the wracks a dual kit with Grotesques confounds the hell out of me considering that:
1.) Nearly every kit has been a dual kit in some form due to GW wanting to save on shelf space.
2.) Wracks and Grotesques are so similar that it would be a snap.
Like why aren't Ogryns and Guardsmen a dual kit?
What about Tau Battlesuits and Firewarriors?
What they should have done, is created 2 types of wracks. One ranged and one close combat, but instead it seems they just added a special weapon to an otherwise flawed concept (purely CC unit with no regular shooting weapon and BS4)
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: The fact that GW did not make the wracks a dual kit with Grotesques confounds the hell out of me considering that:
1.) Nearly every kit has been a dual kit in some form due to GW wanting to save on shelf space.
2.) Wracks and Grotesques are so similar that it would be a snap.
Like why aren't Ogryns and Guardsmen a dual kit?
What about Tau Battlesuits and Firewarriors?
What they should have done, is created 2 types of wracks. One ranged and one close combat, but instead it seems they just added a special weapon to an otherwise flawed concept (purely CC unit with no regular shooting weapon and BS4)
Maybe the wracks come together like some sort of Power Rangers megazord of even Voltron. They just need to put some pegs on the wracks and BOOM! Up that cost kit another $10 for dual compatibility.
Azure you hit it dead on man! The comment about anyone could be a GW model designer, well there are some pretty talented modelers here on Dakka! So I think a few of them could do well as a full time designer.
I had the first Dark Eldar for a demo army, I enjoyed the builds and painting a dark army, these new models really blow the old away! Really impressed, the flyers look like great kits.
Thanks for posting all the pictures and information about the upcoming release!
Some new stuff is over at natfka. New archon, succubus, and vect + dais models will supposedly be released. In turn 3 DE get armywide feel no pain, and turn 5 gets fearless. Supposedly from a commenter who read the WD, if you have a haemonculus, effects are stronger, or Urien of course.
you can kind of get into the cockpit conversation on that though...
Pilot: There's a whole bunch of tanks down there. Pick one to drop our mini-blackhole on. Make sure you video-tape the results for the chips, dips, chains and whips party later! '
Gunner: Hey look, a small squad of insignificant guardsmen! Bombs away!
Pilot: Dude, why?
Gunner: One of them looked at me funny!
Pilot: You need to lay off the combat drugs! Did you at least get footage?
I have always thought that succubus weapon was one of the hellion glaives. Although you can't actually give it to them as a piece of wargear. Maybe that has changed
jimkurtjimmy wrote: I have always thought that succubus weapon was one of the hellion glaives. Although you can't actually give it to them as a piece of wargear. Maybe that has changed
It's now an relic in the codex. 50points, AP6 and +1 init
jimkurtjimmy wrote: I have always thought that succubus weapon was one of the hellion glaives. Although you can't actually give it to them as a piece of wargear. Maybe that has changed
It's now an relic in the codex. 50points, AP6 and +1 init
jimkurtjimmy wrote: I have always thought that succubus weapon was one of the hellion glaives. Although you can't actually give it to them as a piece of wargear. Maybe that has changed
You can give em power weapons so in this case it'd be a power lance.
I only just started collecting/playing DE so I am far from experienced...but doesn't turn 3 FnP just sound kind of crummy? The general consensus is that DE alpha strike, and kill you fast OR they just get steamrolled....so do you veteran DE players think this would be good for keeping you in the game longer, or would it just be too little too late?
It's hard to tell since we had differing explanations of how things work. Someone mentioned the pain tokens work the same as they do now but we get a second effect based of the turn you're on. If that's the case, things would be fine.
If it's as you said and the whole prior system was scrapped in favor of a per turn system, I'd agree with you that FnP on turn 3 would be a bit late.
Metalhed2434 wrote: I only just started collecting/playing DE so I am far from experienced...but doesn't turn 3 FnP just sound kind of crummy? The general consensus is that DE alpha strike, and kill you fast OR they just get steamrolled....so do you veteran DE players think this would be good for keeping you in the game longer, or would it just be too little too late?
Well, one battle isn't a full war of attrition.
I guess the tactic of DE would be now to sneak around picking out (and eliminating) the dangerous stuff and then go for the kill/kidnapping/slaughter/fun on helpless and frightened victims. So Power from Pain isn't a necessary aim to get fit for a battle (by desperately wiping out some units) but a natural consequence of it.
Metalhed2434 wrote: I only just started collecting/playing DE so I am far from experienced...but doesn't turn 3 FnP just sound kind of crummy? The general consensus is that DE alpha strike, and kill you fast OR they just get steamrolled....so do you veteran DE players think this would be good for keeping you in the game longer, or would it just be too little too late?
My guess is you will have pain tokens as well that add 1 to whatever turn it is so Wracks and Hamy would still start with FNP (or have it on turn 2) and by turn 3 or 4 be fearless. Not too bad seeing as we had to kill a full unit before to get it
I really hope the Void has more than one bomb....and I really really hope they give the DE flyers similar rules to the Eldar flyers instead of non useful supersonic....
Metalhed2434 wrote: I only just started collecting/playing DE so I am far from experienced...but doesn't turn 3 FnP just sound kind of crummy? The general consensus is that DE alpha strike, and kill you fast OR they just get steamrolled....so do you veteran DE players think this would be good for keeping you in the game longer, or would it just be too little too late?
In theory I actually prefer the new rule. Since the old system required wiping out a unit to get the benefit, which usually takes a couple of turns anyway, you starts getting into issues of order of fire so that you don't finish off the unit with a vehicle, or worrying about breaking a unit rather than wiping it out. Typically you would only have a couple of units get a pain tokens by turn 3 anyway so this is a buff IMHO.
Tactically it doesn't change much for me. Use mobility to overwhelm weak or exposed units while using terrain/distance to minimize return fire in the first few turns, then focus on hard targets and objectives in the late game.
FnP on t3 bodies with g-string armor sucks anyway. I'd prefer they dump PFP all together and just give coven units FnP and give the rest a steep points discount. You know they value PFP way too high when figuring unit costs, and its a terrible rule for most of our infantry anyway.
jimkurtjimmy wrote: I have always thought that succubus weapon was one of the hellion glaives. Although you can't actually give it to them as a piece of wargear. Maybe that has changed
It's now an relic in the codex. 50points, AP6 and +1 init
Are you sure about that? AP6 and +1 init aren't particularly useful for a hero at 50 pts, even if added to the +1STR and +1A. Especially compared to agonisers.
jimkurtjimmy wrote: I have always thought that succubus weapon was one of the hellion glaives. Although you can't actually give it to them as a piece of wargear. Maybe that has changed
It's now an relic in the codex. 50points, AP6 and +1 init
Are you sure about that? AP6 and +1 init aren't particularly useful for a hero at 50 pts, especially compared to agonisers.
Red Corsair wrote: FnP on t3 bodies with g-string armor sucks anyway. I'd prefer they dump PFP all together and just give coven units FnP and give the rest a steep points discount. You know they value PFP way too high when figuring unit costs, and its a terrible rule for most of our infantry anyway.
In my experience, a lot of units won't get pain tokens at all, so army wide FNP on turn 3 is pretty good. I can foresee holding units in reserve being more useful, as then they'll only need to weather one turn at the most before FNP kicks in .
Red Corsair wrote: FnP on t3 bodies with g-string armor sucks anyway. I'd prefer they dump PFP all together and just give coven units FnP and give the rest a steep points discount. You know they value PFP way too high when figuring unit costs, and its a terrible rule for most of our infantry anyway.
Metalhed2434 wrote: I only just started collecting/playing DE so I am far from experienced...but doesn't turn 3 FnP just sound kind of crummy? The general consensus is that DE alpha strike, and kill you fast OR they just get steamrolled....so do you veteran DE players think this would be good for keeping you in the game longer, or would it just be too little too late?
In theory I actually prefer the new rule. Since the old system required wiping out a unit to get the benefit, which usually takes a couple of turns anyway, you starts getting into issues of order of fire so that you don't finish off the unit with a vehicle, or worrying about breaking a unit rather than wiping it out. Typically you would only have a couple of units get a pain tokens by turn 3 anyway so this is a buff IMHO.
Tactically it doesn't change much for me. Use mobility to overwhelm weak or exposed units while using terrain/distance to minimize return fire in the first few turns, then focus on hard targets and objectives in the late game.
Good point! Seems to make sense, I cannot wait to get a few more games in with this dex, so I have a better understanding for reference once the new one comes out.
Leggy wrote: In my experience, a lot of units won't get pain tokens at all, so army wide FNP on turn 3 is pretty good. I can foresee holding units in reserve being more useful, as then they'll only need to weather one turn at the most before FNP kicks in .
PFP might be completely removed. Perhaps GW thinks pain tokens are too difficult to keep track of, they could completely get rid of the rule
Leggy wrote: In my experience, a lot of units won't get pain tokens at all, so army wide FNP on turn 3 is pretty good. I can foresee holding units in reserve being more useful, as then they'll only need to weather one turn at the most before FNP kicks in .
PFP might be completely removed. Perhaps GW thinks pain tokens are too difficult to keep track of, they could completely get rid of the rule
PFP is apparently still in, as it was apparently referenced in the battle report. You may be right about the tokens though
Red Corsair wrote: FnP on t3 bodies with g-string armor sucks anyway. I'd prefer they dump PFP all together and just give coven units FnP and give the rest a steep points discount. You know they value PFP way too high when figuring unit costs, and its a terrible rule for most of our infantry anyway.
They're T4!
99% of DE are not T4, just wracks.
Reaves, Haemoculi, and Drazhar. Certianly a lot more common than T6
Leggy wrote: In my experience, a lot of units won't get pain tokens at all, so army wide FNP on turn 3 is pretty good. I can foresee holding units in reserve being more useful, as then they'll only need to weather one turn at the most before FNP kicks in .
PFP might be completely removed. Perhaps GW thinks pain tokens are too difficult to keep track of, they could completely get rid of the rule
PFP is apparently still in, as it was apparently referenced in the battle report. You may be right about the tokens though
Well I am sure PFP of some form is still in there. That might be the thing that gives all DE something different based on the turn number, or it might come from doing something else.
One would imagine DE would also get Fear+Hate Slanesh like CWE as an additional USR
jimkurtjimmy wrote: I have always thought that succubus weapon was one of the hellion glaives. Although you can't actually give it to them as a piece of wargear. Maybe that has changed
It's now an relic in the codex. 50points, AP6 and +1 init
Dude...I almost dropped my laptop out of shock, don't scare me like that.
From what I've been reading in battle reps, it's been useful for our brethren to wait a turn or two before launching their close combat assault, so this might be for the best if we coil back like a snake before striking.
Dude...I almost dropped my laptop out of shock, don't scare me like that.
From what I've been reading in battle reps, it's been useful for our brethren to wait a turn or two before launching their close combat assault, so this might be for the best if we coil back like a snake before striking.
Or like a cat, playing with its food. I feel like the new rule is very fluffy, in that I think the Dark Eldar are energized by the thrill of battle itself and the suffering in the air, rather than just getting the last hit in. Can Dark Eldar feed off of the pain of their fellow dark eldar?
Dude...I almost dropped my laptop out of shock, don't scare me like that.
From what I've been reading in battle reps, it's been useful for our brethren to wait a turn or two before launching their close combat assault, so this might be for the best if we coil back like a snake before striking.
Or like a cat, playing with its food. I feel like the new rule is very fluffy, in that I think the Dark Eldar are energized by the thrill of battle itself and the suffering in the air, rather than just getting the last hit in. Can Dark Eldar feed off of the pain of their fellow dark eldar?
Yeah, in the Path of the [Dark Eldar] books, most of the characters don't have a problem imposing pain and torment on other Dark Eldar. Vect's sanctuary pretty much has a slaughterhouse for naughty Archons. The arenas of Commorragh have Dark Eldar that fight like gladiators against mon'keigh fodder or themselves. Doesn't matter where the pain comes from, just as long as it keeps coming.
Okay, got the White Dwarf, and reading it thoroughly. With regards to the battle report, I am thinking/seeing the following;
1. The Wyches and Beasts are not part of the same unit. That dream has gone.
2. The three Talos and one Cronos _seem_ to be a single choice (Heavy Support, presumably).
3. Voidravens appear to be Heavy Support, the Razorwing Fast Attack, _if_ this army is battle-forged (there are three detachments, so I am presuming so).
4. As for the result of the battle report, the Dark Eldar got first turn and started with all three Voidravens on the table rather than having them wait for reserves (a special one-off scenario rule, not a Codex one). Meanwhile the Guard have their Tempestus units, plus Valkyries and a bunch of Ogryns arriving in Turn 3. Don't know if the points values are equal, but if they are...
5. Deployment - no one here would deploy as the Guard player did by choice. Leman Russ as close as possible to the enemy? When your objective is to keep your side of the table clear of enemy units?
6. Reading between the lines, i think I see how Feel no Pain works. As said here earlier, they get new benefits every turn.
Turn 1 - Nothing
Turn 2 - Furious Charge, I would guess by the descriptions in the text.
Turn 3 - Feel no Pain for _every_ Dark Eldar on the table.
Turn 4: Not sure yet. If FC is not turn 2, it is here.
Turn 5: Fearless.
If you have a Haemonculus with you (or Urien is close), that unit is effectively a turn ahead. Or maybe, just maybe, the _effect_ is improved by the presence of a Haemonculus. So, Furious Charge gets +2 S, FnP gets 4+. All a bit ambiguous.
7. Voidravens get some sort of Jink that does not affect their firing. Maybe. Again, a bit ambiguous there.
8. The Archon and Incubi gets ambushed by Ogryns and has to be rescued by Wyches and Grotesques. Tempted to say no change there then...
9. Void Mine we have heard about, killing a whole guard unit. However, it should be noted that, elsewhere in the battle, one gets dropped (with precision, they say) on Ogryns, killing just one and wounding another, and a third gets dropped on a Guard Command Squad, killinga bunch but leaving the commander and medic alive. So, not all powerful.
Remember, all just my interpretation of the battle report text, few actual rules are mentioned!
SarisKhan wrote: I still struggle to comprehend how did the DE player manage to destroy the IG tanks with so little AT.
Considering they should have been priority targets, the Hydras are still firing away in Turn Four... Oh, and remember the armoured vehicles were deployed very far forward - perfect targets for Haywire Wyches and Talos.
SarisKhan wrote: You sure that "Voidraven Jink" isn't just good ol' Flickerfield?
Would make sense, but they specifically say 'dodging' in the text. They also go on about the Hydras reducing the efficiency of the Voidravens, but there is still a lot of firepower coming down from them (and hitting). As I say, all a bit ambiguous on that front.
I see. They really seem to make a strenuous effort for the battle reports to play out nothing like a normal game. And an explicit mention of "dodging" clears things a bit.
The latest white dwarf daily is out, and has the exact same picture posted earlier in the week by the guy who claimed to have white dwarf and visions in hand
Rygnan wrote: The latest white dwarf daily is out, and has the exact same picture posted earlier in the week by the guy who claimed to have white dwarf and visions in hand
I was kinda hoping they would have done a little better than "slightly bigger razorwing" with the voidraven. Like, I'm sure glad it doesn't look any worse, but I expected something more than literally a razorwing with extra engines and a longer nose. Especially for $80. For that much money I think they could have put in more of an effort in the design phase.
It's not a bad model, just underwhelming...like I've already seen it years ago but now I'm being asked to pay twice as much for it because it has an extra canopy bit.
I really hope they have something better to show after this and that the voidraven isn't the the high point of this release, because it's starting to look awful disappointing to me.
Does anyone know yet whether the bonuses stack, or just last for the turn? Because having FCFNP Fearless on Everything by the end game could keep things close up to the last turn, and be very interesting to account for as an opponent.
Red Corsair wrote: FnP on t3 bodies with g-string armor sucks anyway. I'd prefer they dump PFP all together and just give coven units FnP and give the rest a steep points discount. You know they value PFP way too high when figuring unit costs, and its a terrible rule for most of our infantry anyway.
They're T4!
I wasn't referring to wracks. Notice I suggested they just run stock with FnP eh
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oaka wrote: Talos' coming out of a webway portal with turn 3 feel no pain wouldn't be too bad.
I love me some turn 4 first time assaults!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Paradigm wrote: Does anyone know yet whether the bonuses stack, or just last for the turn? Because having FCFNP Fearless on Everything by the end game could keep things close up to the last turn, and be very interesting to account for as an opponent.
I agree but I doubt it will give much pause. By turn 5 DE troops are usually pathetic remnants, I am doubting FnP and fearless will matter much if they want them gone. The fearless is nice, but in my experience most moral checks come early on with the destruction of our paper airplanes. Lets hope they fixed no escape somehow btw.
Paradigm wrote: Does anyone know yet whether the bonuses stack, or just last for the turn? Because having FCFNP Fearless on Everything by the end game could keep things close up to the last turn, and be very interesting to account for as an opponent.
From what I can tell in the battle report, you keep all previous turn's effects.
Paradigm wrote: Does anyone know yet whether the bonuses stack, or just last for the turn? Because having FCFNP Fearless on Everything by the end game could keep things close up to the last turn, and be very interesting to account for as an opponent.
From what I can tell in the battle report, you keep all previous turn's effects.
That's not bad. I can foresee it having an amplification effect on the way the battle is going. If the DE are winning well by T3+, they're going to win even better, but if they take a pasting before the for stuff can kick in then it will be too little, too late and the boosts will be wasted.
This just makes me want to face DE more, they're one of only two armies I've never faced and/or owned, the other being demons.
From all of my games with DE, the whole win big/lose big is a real thing. This is generally because we're powerful to start, but we drop off a lot quicker than other armies when thing start going down. I don't really care for the idea of the PFP having no bearing on what we actually kill, but I can see it having a very positive effect on games.
Basically, when we're getting to later turns where DE are generally lackluster... PFP gives an edge that could bring them back into the game and perhaps somewhat mitigate the win big/lose big thing. I don't think it will totally solve it, but this may just be GW's attempt to keep games with DE more interesting for longer. We'll see how it works, but I'm tentatively optimistic about the attempt.
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Just got the codex, there's no Vect or Dais :(
Just a new Archon and Succubus.
Kabalite warriors can be upgraded to Trueborn,
same for Wychies - Bloodbrides (but no new models)
we obviously lost all the other special characters since
there's no models for them, so just Drazhar, Urien and Lelith left.
Still cant believe we lost Vect, could it possibly be he's going to be a white dwarf release? I really doubt that for something like Vect, unless he's going to be a limited edition model, which again I doubt that'll happen.
There's 3 different pictures of the new Archon with different heads and weapons so seems like a nice kit.
As for the Mandrakes, they lost the 5+inv, but got shrouded + stealth. They also start automatically with baleblast and the only change to it is instead of pinning it's got soul blaze.
There's quite alot of equipment compared to the other recent books. The webway portal now grants you deepstrike to the model, his unit and their transport.
Clonefield is a 4+ inv save. Shadow field the same as before.
I havent gone through it all yet as as I said there's alot of stuff, think all the equipment from before is still mostly there in some form or another + some more new stuff.
Power from Pain gives a set bonus depending upon what round it is, with no other requirements. The bonus's stack, so by the end of the game, your units really have a lot of bonus's.
1. None,
2. Feel No Pain 6+
3. Becomes Feel No Pain 5+
4. Add Furious charge
5. Add Fearless
6. Add Rage
If Warriors can just upgrade to Trueborn, does that mean we have trueborn troops? Does it also mean that Trueborn are subject to the same special weapons restrictions as Warriors, making them suck horribly?
How can there be no Vect!?!?! They have the possibility of making an amazing model/vehicle combo that I am sure they could charge out the ass for and still sell tons of them. Did anyone ever find out what that "Mystery item" was that was rumored a few weeks ago? The one that was "$4.00 less than the cost of 3 terminator packs" or something worded similarly stupid... This will crush me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: These Rumors are killing me....I NEED SOLID ANSWERS!!!!
What a let down if true. Whole release is kinda meh.
If the guy really has the codex it would be nice if he could expand on the void raven since a new kit with the same rules makes it a pointless addition.
So much about my hopes of next week having Incubi, a combo kit with a super heavy type unit/dais :(
Ovion wrote: Might have preordered the Archon edition....
So I can let you know what's in it as soon as it arrives in a week or so!
Ordered from where? lol
FLGS.
They're going to order it as soon as it goes up tomorrow. (And I'm going to call them to make sure).
MongooseMatt wrote:Okay, got the White Dwarf, and reading it thoroughly. With regards to the battle report, I am thinking/seeing the following;
1. The Wyches and Beasts are not part of the same unit. That dream has gone.
meh
2. The three Talos and one Cronos _seem_ to be a single choice (Heavy Support, presumably).
Yes please.
3. Voidravens appear to be Heavy Support, the Razorwing Fast Attack, _if_ this army is battle-forged (there are three detachments, so I am presuming so).
Holy crap I hope so.
4. As for the result of the battle report, the Dark Eldar got first turn and started with all three Voidravens on the table rather than having them wait for reserves (a special one-off scenario rule, not a Codex one). Meanwhile the Guard have their Tempestus units, plus Valkyries and a bunch of Ogryns arriving in Turn 3. Don't know if the points values are equal, but if they are...
meh
5. Deployment - no one here would deploy as the Guard player did by choice. Leman Russ as close as possible to the enemy? When your objective is to keep your side of the table clear of enemy units?
meh
6. Reading between the lines, i think I see how Feel no Pain works. As said here earlier, they get new benefits every turn.
Turn 1 - Nothing
Turn 2 - Furious Charge, I would guess by the descriptions in the text.
Turn 3 - Feel no Pain for _every_ Dark Eldar on the table.
Turn 4: Not sure yet. If FC is not turn 2, it is here.
Turn 5: Fearless.
If you have a Haemonculus with you (or Urien is close), that unit is effectively a turn ahead. Or maybe, just maybe, the _effect_ is improved by the presence of a Haemonculus. So, Furious Charge gets +2 S, FnP gets 4+. All a bit ambiguous.
Interesting, but will have to wait to see how it plays out and how Haems / Covens affect it...
7. Voidravens get some sort of Jink that does not affect their firing. Maybe. Again, a bit ambiguous there.
Probably flickers, and they just call it dodging tbh.
8. The Archon and Incubi gets ambushed by Ogryns and has to be rescued by Wyches and Grotesques. Tempted to say no change there then...
That's... wierd... the Str4+ AP2 strikes should massacre the Ogryns.
9. Void Mine we have heard about, killing a whole guard unit. However, it should be noted that, elsewhere in the battle, one gets dropped (with precision, they say) on Ogryns, killing just one and wounding another, and a third gets dropped on a Guard Command Squad, killinga bunch but leaving the commander and medic alive. So, not all powerful.
Kinda too vague to tell sadly.
Remember, all just my interpretation of the battle report text, few actual rules are mentioned!
Is interesting...
I'm kinda locked in now. Just gotta hope it doesn't suck.
Losing the duke although expected is going to make me very sad. But we can't lose vect. I mean he is our Calgar/grimnar/azrael. Does GW disdain money and dark eldar that much?
I'm a bit skeptical too. That guy with the 'Codex' contradicts what was pulled out the White Dwarf (although, granted, this is all kind of fuzzy info). On Turn 2 is it FnP 6+ or Furious Charge like the WD said?
Yeah, let's see a photo...If you have a dex you could have a photo posted just as quick as writing a big huge post like that. God, Idk why I get so worked up!
If Warriors can just upgrade to Trueborn, does that mean we have trueborn troops? Does it also mean that Trueborn are subject to the same special weapons restrictions as Warriors, making them suck horribly?
They could have different weapon options for the upgrade or non upgraded. Or they could just suck. You never know.
Hulksmash wrote: Yeah, I'm not buying that a dude got a codex before they have even started taking pre-orders.
It's not impossible (though admittedly unlikely). The local FLGS got the Dwarf Army Book before pre-orders came out. I got a lot of crap over on Bugman's Brewery for a couple of weeks while I was posting info from the book....
As for the Mandrakes, they lost the 5+inv, but got shrouded + stealth. They also start automatically with baleblast and the only change to it is instead of pinning it's got soul blaze.
They already had stealth. Looks like they still suck, but perhaps a point drop or other equipment would make them viable.
The webway portal now grants you deepstrike to the model, his unit and their transport.
Silly and much less useful, but certainly cleans up the rules.
Clonefield is a 4+ inv save.
simpler, but useless. T3 characters can't take many wounds anyway
Power from Pain gives a set bonus depending upon what round it is, with no other requirements. The bonus's stack, so by the end of the game, your units really have a lot of bonus's.
1. None,
2. Feel No Pain 6+
3. Becomes Feel No Pain 5+
4. Add Furious charge
5. Add Fearless
6. Add Rage
Fearless Turn 5 is alright, but everything else is very meh.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The voidraven is $115!
To be fair, conceptually it's quite effective, as it inflicts more damage with a single attack.
Unfortunately, there are too many steps for it to become truly effective, and it does not stack.
If those rumors about the webway portals are true, then I have lost hope that the new codex will offer a unique new army style that might actually get me back into the game.
Source of the Natfka rumors all in german but pretty easy to understand with google translate. Read the comments too as it sounds like their source is commenting. Salt and all but these guys are pretty legit and it does seem to jive with the WD batrep
Source of the Natfka rumors all in german but pretty easy to understand with google translate. Read the comments too as it sounds like their source is commenting. Salt and all but these guys are pretty legit and it does seem to jive with the WD batrep
40Kings wrote:"Man munkelt außerdem, dass dieses Menschen auch schon ein paar interessante Fakten über den neuen Codex präsentieren wollen…Im Folgenden findet Ihr eine erste Einschätzung, die auf Gerüchten (!) basiert, die mir so von hier und da zu Ohren gekommen sind."
"It's also said that this people want to present even a few interesting facts about the new Codex ... Below you will find a first estimate, based on rumors (!), Which are to me so came from here and there to ears."
I feel bad about buying the Archon Edition, even discounted.
It's sad, because at £120 I'd have bought it with a smile, rather than bitterness.
All the new codexes include a LoW so far, the omission of it is telling that the rumors are made up.
additionally that they poster did not include formation/detachment info also is telling they do not have the new codex as that is currently a big thing towards army selection and certainly the new codex will have 1 formation 1 detachment.
they also did not mention the separate wyche / kabal relics which have been rumored.
The german site seems to just be a collection of rumors from other sites, and includes these bad rumors.
IIRC faeit has had mostly false rumors since the Nids codex.
TBH out of all of this I am really looking forward to the painting guide, as there really aren't any new model releases so far past the voidraven, everything "new" seems to just be old finecast sculpts redone in plastic, from the wracks to the new succubus. And already got those as finecast filled in with that crap green stuff paint they had to sell to fill in the the "fineholes" in their finecrap.
Yea that is all crap. The white noise is being repackaged and snowballing out from faeit22 and every time someone else repackages this crap it gets harder to separate it from truth. Wait for pictures fellas.
We have already got our "big" kit for this release. They never do 2 big kits, not even for marines. As sad as it may be, Vect probably got the axe. And really, with his ride, he was over 400pts. He'd not likely to see a lot of action anyways.
If they cut vect surely they will add a named archon. Wouldn't make since not to have one since kabals make up a 3rd of the army. (Im dividing d e up by kabals, cults, and covens)
Got my datacards ordered. I've never bought these things before, so here's hoping I'll enjoy them more than the 4 pack of beers I could have bought for the same price!
Nocturnus wrote: We have already got our "big" kit for this release. They never do 2 big kits, not even for marines. As sad as it may be, Vect probably got the axe. And really, with his ride, he was over 400pts. He'd not likely to see a lot of action anyways.
Space Wolves got a flier and a Lord of War character on custom ride.
Plus, the Void Raven has been around forever, so it's not like they had to design it.
Apologies if someone has done this, but I pulled the images file from datasheets on GW.com shown in the Archon edition.
Took them to Photoshop, cleaned them up to the best of my ability.
Here's what little I could glean.
Venoms are up to 65 pts base. There are 5 wargear options below it ranging from 10 pts to 30 pts. I can't make out what they are.
The first line is the most puzzling to me. I'll be damned if it doesn't say "45/model." I have no clue what it means. Perhaps 10 man squads can split into two venoms, getting the second at a 20 pt discount. I haven't really thought about what this means.
Court of the Archon is a "see below" for points, I'm assuming it's the same.
Beastmasters are "see below" so I expect unchanged.
It looks like Wracks are 50 pts, assuming that's a 5 squad now.
Ravagers appear to be 120 now
Haemonculi at 60.
Succubus is 40 before gear.
Other points listed are 150, 140, 50, 110 -- but I can't tell what they are.
Also we have special and basic character model for coven and wyches, generic archon, should also have vect. I'm intrigued for next week. Just 2 clampacks would be v weak
Nocturnus wrote: We have already got our "big" kit for this release. They never do 2 big kits, not even for marines. As sad as it may be, Vect probably got the axe. And really, with his ride, he was over 400pts. He'd not likely to see a lot of action anyways.
Space Wolves got a flier and a Lord of War character on custom ride.
Plus, the Void Raven has been around forever, so it's not like they had to design it.
True, but that's all they got. We are getting a big flyer, 3 plastic characters and a box of plastic troops/elites. And just because the flyer was ready a long time ago, really means nothing. Pretty sure they don't base releases on when a model was created/designed.
Awful static, though. So was the old one but even that pose was still more interesting than "ass cheeks squeezed very tightly because if I move I'll gak myself".
If that's the succubus then I like it, looks like a "proper" pose for an HQ model, though honestly it doesn't look much different from a regular wych.
Notice there's no lord of war listed and no Vect in the HQ slot. Looking more and more like he is not in the codex.
Also a nice picture of the new succubus
Wow! I suspected they were replacing the Succubus. Good to see it's much nicer than the new Haemonculus. I guess Vect is gone. Jury is still out on the plastic Archon. Some pics look great and others look like crap. I can't wait to see it on the sprue and see if we get some options. I wonder if the Finecast Archon will be yanked.
Notice there's no lord of war listed and no Vect in the HQ slot. Looking more and more like he is not in the codex.
Also a nice picture of the new succubus
Wow! I suspected they were replacing the Succubus. Good to see it's much nicer than the new Haemonculus. I guess Vect is gone. Jury is still out on the plastic Archon. Some pics look great and others look like crap. I can't wait to see it on the sprue and see if we get some options. I wonder if the Finecast Archon will be yanked.
Who knows? I plan on snagging the last Archon off the shelf at my FLGS just in case tomorrow.
There has to a be low selection. Everyone has one and suddenly the DE just miss out on that free slot. Wow. Revenant Titans with Eldar Allies a go-go then.
Indeed. I could understand if it was a 'GW exclusive' as that might encourage foot traffic. But at this point i am better off waiting a week or two for Succubus kit to be available at an Independent store along with the codex and bomber. I would have picked up the Codex direct from GW at the same time.
Although...does the Archon version of the codex come with the battle.cards? Could be a way of making another LE product look better value, perhaps?
I never thought i would see GW going out of their way to get less money from me. :\
Souleater wrote: Indeed. I could understand if it was a 'GW exclusive' as that might encourage foot traffic. But at this point i am better off waiting a week or two for Succubus kit to be available at an Independent store along with the codex and bomber. I would have picked up the Codex direct from GW at the same time.
Although...does the Archon version of the codex come with the battle.cards? Could be a way of making another LE product look better value, perhaps?
I never thought i would see GW going out of their way to get less money from me. :\
It's like they are aliens. Some of their decisions are logical, some of them are definitely not. No discernible pattern. As if they had an entirely different way of thinking than normal people.
From the sample of the codex on iBooks, it sounds like Commorragh is having a few problems of its own during these End Times. Vect and Malys are having quite the lover's quarrel lol.
I'm willing to bet that Vect isn't gone from the game altogether, but that he gets his own supplement. There's got to be loads they can do with the background and rules for his kabal, it's too big to drop and ignore.
kitch102 wrote: I'm willing to bet that Vect isn't gone from the game altogether, but that he gets his own supplement. There's got to be loads they can do with the background and rules for his kabal, it's too big to drop and ignore.
There has never been any supplement-only miniatures, so don't hold your breath.
Jury is still out on the plastic Archon. Some pics look great and others look like crap. I can't wait to see it on the sprue and see if we get some options.
It's not the sub-standard pics that make the Archon look rubbish, it's the ridiculous stand-to-attention legs it's got. How anyone OKs that from the design team is truly beyond me. Then again GW have always produced daft, nonsensical poses from time to time. This one will be vying with Belial for least practical.
@SarisKhan: other than his cloak most of the 'bits' making him seem to have been copied straight from existing DE models. (Or they have actually used bits from other kits to make the kit seem better.)
You could probably build him out of your bits box if you find a suitable cloak if you want to go with 'better legs'
I am disappointed we didn't get a female Archon. I know we have the lady from the Archon's Court but it could have been a nice model.
(And I can't believe a non-Haemie model would wear such a raggedy cloak. I know it's flayed skin but dah-ling that's so last season!)
I'm sure Dark Eldar will get a supplement with a LOW in next week. ( If it hasn't been confirmed already - I don't know)
It makes me wonder about the whole LOW thing, maybe the characters that are being made into LOW will have are going to play a key part in story progression next year? just like their doing in WFB right now.
I'm going to buy the new Archon kit and replace his legs with those of a Kabalite. Problem solved!
But if people do that they go: 'Oh, customers like/don't mind/ will tolerate nonsensical poses. Anything goes!' and given other plastic character prices you'd be looking at £15 - 18 (80 - 96 zloty according to Bing) for half a model.
eohall wrote:Cards already NLA? I had only myself to blame for sleeping on the WWP when it was up, but this...
Contact your local store / FLGS.
I know my local store ordered 5 for floor stock, and when I asked to preorder the cards they just earmarked one of those.
Sidstyler wrote:The "Archon Edition" is actually sold out on the US site. I have no fething idea why, but...there it is.
Sol out on the UK site too.
I imagine because it's you know sold out..
Which shows how much love the Dark Eldar get - the Space Wolf and Ork ones took weeks to sell out.
Additionally, I'm glad I contacted my FLGS letting them know it was out a day early, or I'd have missed it.
UltraPrime wrote:
kitch102 wrote: I'm willing to bet that Vect isn't gone from the game altogether, but that he gets his own supplement. There's got to be loads they can do with the background and rules for his kabal, it's too big to drop and ignore.
There has never been any supplement-only miniatures, so don't hold your breath.
There are Dataslate only Minis though.
And have been White Dwarf only, Supplement only and expansion only models in the past.
(Cypher, Ork flyers, Stormtalon, Assassins, various non-Forgeworld Superheavies / Lords of War)
Souleater wrote:@SarisKhan: other than his cloak most of the 'bits' making him seem to have been copied straight from existing DE models. (Or they have actually used bits from other kits to make the kit seem better.)
You could probably build him out of your bits box if you find a suitable cloak if you want to go with 'better legs'
I am disappointed we didn't get a female Archon. I know we have the lady from the Archon's Court but it could have been a nice model.
(And I can't believe a non-Haemie model would wear such a raggedy cloak. I know it's flayed skin but dah-ling that's so last season!)
As you've said, a lot of it looks like it's either used other parts of the DE line as a base, or has just used other DE parts as a base.
Willing to bet this means it uses the standard Front/Rear torso, and Leg/Head connections as all other Kabalite stuff, meaning you can just take any female torso and/or head parts, and whack it in there.
Souleater wrote: @SarisKhan: other than his cloak most of the 'bits' making him seem to have been copied straight from existing DE models. (Or they have actually used bits from other kits to make the kit seem better.)
You could probably build him out of your bits box if you find a suitable cloak if you want to go with 'better legs'
I am disappointed we didn't get a female Archon. I know we have the lady from the Archon's Court but it could have been a nice model.
(And I can't believe a non-Haemie model would wear such a raggedy cloak. I know it's flayed skin but dah-ling that's so last season!)
Looking at the craftworlder hq section, Id say DE is in great shape with all this new plastic and options.
And similarity with common infantry could be a blessing that allow for even more options and custom builds.
kitch102 wrote: I'm willing to bet that Vect isn't gone from the game altogether, but that he gets his own supplement. There's got to be loads they can do with the background and rules for his kabal, it's too big to drop and ignore.
There has never been any supplement-only miniatures, so don't hold your breath.
What about Chaos and Be'Lakor? Does this not count?
Sidstyler wrote: The "Archon Edition" is actually sold out on the US site. I have no fething idea why, but...there it is.
500 copies. That's right around the reseller crowd with a few dozen hardcore fans thrown in.
The funny thing is that's just the Dracon edition. The Archon edition lacks the Haemonculus supplement (which somehow makes it $80 less...) and that is still available. I hate to tell you but this is typical of all GW limited releases. As soon as any limited release, or probably any new release at all, goes live, there are always in the ball park of 500 purchases in the first day.
Sidstyler wrote:The "Archon Edition" is actually sold out on the US site. I have no fething idea why, but...there it is.
Sol out on the UK site too.
I imagine because it's you know sold out..
Oh. Makes sense, I guess.
So, 500 copies worldwide, how does that compare to previous LE books then? Are Dark Eldar really more popular (with apparently more hardcore fans) or are they just producing less of them since the previous releases took weeks to sell out?
Why oh why are datacards/objective cards made in such low supply?
I get up this morning to check the new releases and they're already no longer available - except on ebay where I could pay 4x the price.
Ffs GW, no wonder you're losing money. I now have to spend that extra hobby cash on an ebay scalper rather than on other stuff from GW.
I assume their marketing dept are muppets.
I missed Space Hulk as well. That's a load of money GW haven't got from me that I wanted to give them.
Sidstyler wrote:The "Archon Edition" is actually sold out on the US site. I have no fething idea why, but...there it is.
Sol out on the UK site too.
I imagine because it's you know sold out..
Oh. Makes sense, I guess.
So, 500 copies worldwide, how does that compare to previous LE books then? Are Dark Eldar really more popular (with apparently more hardcore fans) or are they just producing less of them since the previous releases took weeks to sell out?
Faster.
I don't recall the previous ones selling out within a few hours of release.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Why oh why are datacards/objective cards made in such low supply?
I get up this morning to check the new releases and they're already no longer available - except on ebay where I could pay 4x the price.
.
I checked as Strictly began (so ~9:00pm in the UK) They had already sold out.So it isn't that you overslept but that the supply was too low. And, again, I know others have raised this but why are these types of card limited in the first place?
Gimgamgoo wrote: Why oh why are datacards/objective cards made in such low supply?
I get up this morning to check the new releases and they're already no longer available - except on ebay where I could pay 4x the price.
.
I checked as Strictly began (so ~9:00pm in the UK) They had already sold out.So it isn't that you overslept but that the supply was too low. And, again, I know others have raised this but why are these types of card limited in the first place?
Because they aren't printed by Games Workshop themselves and they use up valuable shelf space.
Also, what gets sold out so quickly is the webstore allocation of the cards. Your local GW should get anywhere from 2 to 10 copies of cards for the shelves. It varies wildly as to how many they get though, with releases like Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and Orks getting the upper range of 10 and releases like the Lore of Undeath for WHFB getting 3 at my local GW.
I was contemplating the Archon edition as I love limited edition stuff... however I could not justify it for the extra cash (and we are renovating our basement). The only reason I'd want it is the orange page edges and objective coins (now plastic/resin), but that's not worth the extra $70/$100. I bought the Wolf Guard edition codex, but that had gold page edges, metal coins, art prints, and the books didn't have slip covers (I hate slip covers, they get damaged so easily). GW should not have put slip covers on the DE books!
I also bought the wolf guard edition as it came with the Grimnar supplement, only to see the supplement released the next week -wthGW :(
I think GW needs to add some more content to these LE books to make them a better deal for the cost.
Wilson wrote: I'm sure Dark Eldar will get a supplement with a LOW in next week. ( If it hasn't been confirmed already - I don't know)
It makes me wonder about the whole LOW thing, maybe the characters that are being made into LOW will have are going to play a key part in story progression next year? just like their doing in WFB right now.
that could be cool :]
What progression lol? In 20 years of playing nothing has changed in the plot.
kitch102 wrote: I'm willing to bet that Vect isn't gone from the game altogether, but that he gets his own supplement. There's got to be loads they can do with the background and rules for his kabal, it's too big to drop and ignore.
There has never been any supplement-only miniatures, so don't hold your breath.
What about Chaos and Be'Lakor? Does this not count?
That mini is ancient acutally, at least 8 years old. What you and others fail to miss is the fact they have not made ANY slates or supplements for units without existing models, making the likelyhood more wishlisting.
I've been working on the assumption that the kit comes with some cool plastic bits, but sure, laugh at me. I can afford that, I only need to see sprue pics first.
SarisKhan wrote: I've been working on the assumption that the kit comes with some cool plastic bits, but sure, laugh at me. I can afford that, I only need to see sprue pics first.
But you can literally get 10 kabalites or wyches WITH tons of extra bits... Thats what kills me about these clam shell characters, 30 is too much even for some extra weapons or heads. But as you said, it,s your money.
I like the Voidraven, but it'd be nice if there was something more to it than just "bigger Razorwing". I'm not really seeing the point in the additional cockpit.
Frozen Ocean wrote: I like the Voidraven, but it'd be nice if there was something more to it than just "bigger Razorwing". I'm not really seeing the point in the additional cockpit.
One can only hope this thing is pinpoint accurate considering they dedicated an entire cockpit for a single use bomb.
Also, what gets sold out so quickly is the webstore allocation of the cards.
I know. But for them to have underestimated the potential demand so that they run out within hours rather than days or weeks seems a tad poor. I just think they would have a better idea of their market
Wilson wrote: I'm sure Dark Eldar will get a supplement with a LOW in next week. ( If it hasn't been confirmed already - I don't know)
It makes me wonder about the whole LOW thing, maybe the characters that are being made into LOW will have are going to play a key part in story progression next year? just like their doing in WFB right now.
that could be cool :]
What progression lol? In 20 years of playing nothing has changed in the plot.
I'm one of those people that believes once all of the codex's are updated for 6th/7t,h they will look to moving the story. not dramatically - the emperor's status won't change but I think an armageddon 2.0 will happen . perhaps a demon prince Primarch will show up. The void dragon will escape Mars and enable ad mech armies in 40k. The Tau will expand again.
Wilson wrote: I'm sure Dark Eldar will get a supplement with a LOW in next week. ( If it hasn't been confirmed already - I don't know)
It makes me wonder about the whole LOW thing, maybe the characters that are being made into LOW will have are going to play a key part in story progression next year? just like their doing in WFB right now.
that could be cool :]
What progression lol? In 20 years of playing nothing has changed in the plot.
I'm one of those people that believes once all of the codex's are updated for 6th/7t,h they will look to moving the story. not dramatically - the emperor's status won't change but I think an armageddon 2.0 will happen . perhaps a demon prince Primarch will show up. The void dragon will escape Mars and enable ad mech armies in 40k. The Tau will expand again.
you know, something like that.
Well that's not the same thing then.
We have had the 13th crusade and the 3rd war for Armageddon already and nothing changed. It's just another campaign. They also haven't done a large summer campaign in many years and we were fortunate to get Stormclaw which is a smaller version of those past events.
GW very much likes things where they're at because progression of any meaningful kind means someone has to be regressing. I think things will stay deadlocked, but hey that's just from my experience, could happen I suppose. More likely, once necrons and BA are done, we see a new Chaos codex, they are always the first redo generally.
Edit: Also take note that when GW ran summer campaigns of the past scale they had forums and were an active member of the community. Heck in Storm of Chaos and Eye of Terror player world wide would register regionally as good or bad and submit results for GW to sort through to decide as a community who was winning. Sounds so alien today.
Frozen Ocean wrote: I like the Voidraven, but it'd be nice if there was something more to it than just "bigger Razorwing". I'm not really seeing the point in the additional cockpit.
One can only hope this thing is pinpoint accurate considering they dedicated an entire cockpit for a single use bomb.
I know that tech is rarely practical in 40k, but "glass bubble with a guy looking down" has got to be one of the worst attempts at logic they have ever done. Meanwhile, Space Marines get a single-seat gunship with a 360° nose turret, so it's not like they don't understand that a pilot doesn't have to focus solely on flying. I just hope that the front cockpit is mostly flush with the actual craft so that painting it over won't look too odd, or that it can be fixed in some other way.
Frozen Ocean wrote: I like the Voidraven, but it'd be nice if there was something more to it than just "bigger Razorwing". I'm not really seeing the point in the additional cockpit.
One can only hope this thing is pinpoint accurate considering they dedicated an entire cockpit for a single use bomb.
I know that tech is rarely practical in 40k, but "glass bubble with a guy looking down" has got to be one of the worst attempts at logic they have ever done. Meanwhile, Space Marines get a single-seat gunship with a 360° nose turret, so it's not like they don't understand that a pilot doesn't have to focus solely on flying. I just hope that the front cockpit is mostly flush with the actual craft so that painting it over won't look too odd, or that it can be fixed in some other way.
Glass bubble with guy looking down is how bombers in the real world were made for many years. It's identifiable to people and you can see its a bomber. Maybe it's super strong space elf glass with an advanced targeting array for the bombardier.
and no Baron... oh well thats my army/ fethed. Looks like I'll have to make a new list...
Frozen Ocean wrote: I know that tech is rarely practical in 40k, but "glass bubble with a guy looking down" has got to be one of the worst attempts at logic they have ever done. Meanwhile, Space Marines get a single-seat gunship with a 360° nose turret, so it's not like they don't understand that a pilot doesn't have to focus solely on flying. I just hope that the front cockpit is mostly flush with the actual craft so that painting it over won't look too odd, or that it can be fixed in some other way.
Well I'm kinda going to find out in a round about way.. my glass is all painted in.
winterman wrote:https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/codex-dark-eldar-enhanced/id921973285?mt=11 Notice there's no lord of war listed and no Vect in the HQ slot. Looking more and more like he is not in the codex.
and no Baron... oh well thats my army/ fethed. Looks like I'll have to make a new list...
Frozen Ocean wrote: I know that tech is rarely practical in 40k, but "glass bubble with a guy looking down" has got to be one of the worst attempts at logic they have ever done. Meanwhile, Space Marines get a single-seat gunship with a 360° nose turret, so it's not like they don't understand that a pilot doesn't have to focus solely on flying. I just hope that the front cockpit is mostly flush with the actual craft so that painting it over won't look too odd, or that it can be fixed in some other way.
Well I'm kinda going to find out in a round about way.. my glass is all painted in.
Panic...
Worst case, you can either go unbound, or create a Datasheet for the Baron, which is just the original unit, but adjusted with 7th rules or whatever. I doubt anyone would care.
Good God, the DE special characters sure hit the chopping block hard, eh? I'm glad to see that with all the stuff going on with the Chapterhouse suit that the customers were the ones to get punished- they were surely the most deserving.
That being said, were there ever a bunch of 3rd party characters being sold? I seem to recall most kits being modifications to existing kits (shoulderpads, Stormraven bodies, etc.) but I thought the trouble of special characters was that their names are so specific that the only way you could market a 3rd party version that people would accept/recognize would be to call them by their literal name, which would be an obvious infringement...
...I don't know why I'm trying to ascribe logic to this. The special characters will be culled, army compositions will be lost, and the number of units you need to play will go up. And people will cheer, shrug at the characters (who needs them anyway!!), say "unbound" to any loss of army compositions, and celebrate that they can pack an extra $200 worth of models into a 1500 point army.
(This all being said, DE are one of my favorite two armies)
(Also, if any of this ends up being untrue and special characters are *not* culled, I will change my tune. But these changes are consistent with the last few releases so I'm pretty confident in my opinion on this.)
Accolade wrote: Good God, the DE special characters sure hit the chopping block hard, eh? I'm glad to see that with all the stuff going on with the Chapterhouse suit that the customers were the ones to get punished- they were surely the most deserving.
That being said, were there ever a bunch of 3rd party characters being sold? I seem to recall most kits being modifications to existing kits (shoulderpads, Stormraven bodies, etc.) but I thought the trouble of special characters was that their names are so specific that the only way you could market a 3rd party version that people would accept/recognize would be to call them by their literal name, which would be an obvious infringement...
...I don't know why I'm trying to ascribe logic to this. The special characters will be culled, army compositions will be lost, and the number of units you need to play will go up. And people will cheer, shrug at the characters (who needs them anyway!!), say "unbound" to any loss of army compositions, and celebrate that they can pack an extra $200 worth of models into a 1500 point army.
(This all being said, DE are one of my favorite two armies)
(Also, if any of this ends up being untrue and special characters are *not* culled, I will change my tune. But these changes are consistent with the last few releases so I'm pretty confident in my opinion on this.)
Personally, I'll be adding any missing character to my Extended Codex as I update it to 7th.
I'll release them all as 'dataslates' individually for people too.
I severely doubt anyone will have a problem with it in the days of Unbound.
eohall wrote:Cards already NLA? I had only myself to blame for sleeping on the WWP when it was up, but this...
Contact your local store / FLGS.
I know my local store ordered 5 for floor stock, and when I asked to preorder the cards they just earmarked one of those.
I'd have to take a bus to NYC to get to my "local" GW, but it may be worth calling up some FLGSs.
and no Baron... oh well thats my army/ fethed.
Looks like I'll have to make a new list...
Frozen Ocean wrote: I know that tech is rarely practical in 40k, but "glass bubble with a guy looking down" has got to be one of the worst attempts at logic they have ever done. Meanwhile, Space Marines get a single-seat gunship with a 360° nose turret, so it's not like they don't understand that a pilot doesn't have to focus solely on flying. I just hope that the front cockpit is mostly flush with the actual craft so that painting it over won't look too odd, or that it can be fixed in some other way.
Well I'm kinda going to find out in a round about way.. my glass is all painted in.
Panic...
Just run it as unbound or take 2 tiny troop choices.
I think he already understands that. It's the fact that they invalidated another list that was entirely legal last week.
It's just like Draigowing, Logan wing, Purifier troops, Nob troops. Sure you can still get by but unbound should be written off, most places won't touch that format.
To me the bigger concern of this is the homogenization of armies. Why build a coven army if in 4 years it may no longer be legal, nope best to play straight from the book and build white dwarf armies. This may not happen I admit, but it's a thought anyway.
Panic wrote: yeah,
Hellions as troops isn't as important as it once was, but it was nice and for my army fluffy...
The itunes list does look very light on DE characters!
There is still hope that it's a not a complete list??
or that guys and girls like Malys, the Baron and Kheradruakh are unit upgrades??
Panic...
Maybe I'm missing something and I've checked App Store, black library, and a few other places. What list are people referring too when they state that things like no lord of war and stuff?
TheKbob wrote: I've only half paid attention to the release, but I can see the trend continuing. I only hope more and more people say "No Thanks."
I 100% agree with you, GW still thinks they are the ONLY company when clearly there are better ones who usually are cheaper. It is quite sad they still think this way, hopefully when enough people say no thanks to them they'll go back to the days of old when they actually let us know months in advance before models came out and lower their prices back to those times
TheKbob wrote: I've only half paid attention to the release
I've got to say that hearing that Vect is no longer in the MAIN codex is very very disappointing to hear about, and if he is then going to be only avaiable in some supplement codex I am going to be uber pissed the off. I mean I never used any of the special characters as it was because DE was really a fourth army for me anyway but still that would be a blatant money grab on GW part.
TheKbob wrote: I've only half paid attention to the release
I've got to say that hearing that Vect is no longer in the MAIN codex is very very disappointing to hear about, and if he is then going to be only avaiable in some supplement codex I am going to be uber pissed the off. I mean I never used any of the special characters as it was because DE was really a fourth army for me anyway but still that would be a blatant money grab on GW part.
He won't be in a supplement, so you can stop worrying about so-called 'money grabs'.
Thanatos73 wrote:
Glass bubble with guy looking down is how bombers in the real world were made for many years. It's identifiable to people and you can see its a bomber. Maybe it's super strong space elf glass with an advanced targeting array for the bombardier.
I personally think it looks good.
Except that was when cameras didn't exist, or any form of advanced targeting. I like the cockpit as a cockpit (it looks like it would give you quite the thrill when flying, as you're surrounded by almost no material that isn't transparent - I know from my own experience that nothing quite makes you feel like you're flying than having any sort of windows below you in an aircraft) and it looks nice, but unfortunately it seems much harder to cover up the standard "Wave Serpent cockpit" than the nose one, and I'd really prefer it to only have one. I like planes, so I'll be getting the Voidraven to go with my growing collection of flyers from various armies, although I've meant to get a Razorwing for a long time so I might get that first, or maybe at the same time.
Ovion wrote:It also states the entire bubble is a tactical display.
That's just a silly way to work around it! If they had a unique helmet that was obviously connected to the craft (I know they could have displays and stuff in the round helmet, but it wouldn't be obvious, especially not when the model is literally looking at the ground), it would work better. Especially if the bomber was actually the rear cockpit.
I have no problem with armies getting weaker. I hope all of the armies get toned down a notch. The game needs things like wyverns, centurion stars, wave serpents to go away.
However, I know two things that ruin this.
First, they are completely removing any sort of flavor from the armies. They are so unbearably bland. Second, there's no possible way they'll continue to adjust armies down. Soon enough, they'll return to their flying rodent gak insane tranny c'tan levels of stupid. And all these armies that have been 'adjusted down' will be left up gak creek for 3-5 years.
What kills me if vect is gone is the fact that 2 months earlier despite logan having a model already and a wolf drawn chariot being asinine and against all SW canon they still dedicated resources and man hours to that god awful POS instead of making a Vect + dais kit which we needed in the DE line.
Red Corsair wrote: What kills me if vect is gone is the fact that 2 months earlier despite logan having a model already and a wolf drawn chariot being asinine and against all SW canon they still dedicated resources and man hours to that god awful POS instead of making a Vect + dais kit which we needed in the DE line.
Red Corsair wrote: What kills me if vect is gone is the fact that 2 months earlier despite logan having a model already and a wolf drawn chariot being asinine and against all SW canon they still dedicated resources and man hours to that god awful POS instead of making a Vect + dais kit which we needed in the DE line.
Disagree with Logan comment, but beauty in the eye of the beholder, blah blah...
Lone Cat wrote: 1. Tell me about an elf with many arms. Does he wears the armor of the same grade the IG troops wear?
2. What happens to the two slave girls?
Red Corsair wrote: What kills me if vect is gone is the fact that 2 months earlier despite logan having a model already and a wolf drawn chariot being asinine and against all SW canon they still dedicated resources and man hours to that god awful POS instead of making a Vect + dais kit which we needed in the DE line.
Disagree with Logan comment, but beauty in the eye of the beholder, blah blah...
But I do agree with Vect portion.
I like the new logan, I just don't agree with the chariot. I'd care less about the chariot if it wasn't taking time and resources from other things the game could really use. Why add unasked for things while ignoring please sort of deal.
- Huskblades are ap3, cheaper, not a relic
- Racks now work on all Splinter weapons
- Wych weapons nerfed. Hydras confer Shred, Razors reroll To Hit, Shardnet/Impaler reroll 1s on To Hit and To Wound
- Stun Claw is +1S, ap6, confers ID in challenge
- Shadow Field is more expensive
- Incubi are still ap2
- Torment Gren. Launchers can now be fired, 24", blast, s1, unit hit tests Ld, takes a wound for each point it failed, no armor or cover saves, doesnt work against ATSKNF - Night Shield confers Stealth
- Hex Rifle inflicts ID on Precision Hits
- Soul Trap gives +1s for each usnaved wound inflicted in a challenge
- Reavers no longer attack while moving, now bladevanes are improved HoW. Caltrops inflict D6 rending HoWs, Gravs inflict Concussive
- Spirit Probe now improves FnP of all Deldar in 6" by 1 to a max od 4+
- Phantasm works like TGL, shorter range
- Ossefactor is assault 1, fleshbane, ap2. If something is killed then the victims unit get d6 hits with s equal to t of the victim, ap-, ignores cover
- Liquifier is now s3
- Implosion Msls are s6 ap2 blast
- Chain Flails now only give Shred
- Talos has 3 attacks, same as Cronos
- Borh Haemy and Archon improve PfP, they let a unit add a 1 to the turn number for PrP, this stacks
- Warlord traits are ultrashitty, one gives the warlord +1 ws...
- Artefacts look average too, there is the old Djinn blade which works almost the same, a helmet that gives adamantium will in 12" and perils on any double, a terrible pistol, an ghostplate that gives -2 Ld in 6" and Fear, also one of the items does not work against atsknf. There is also Animus Vitae which is a one use, assault 1, s4 ap2, 8" that if a unsaved wound is inflicted lets all Deldar add 1 to the turn number for PfP effects until the end of the game
- it says that Dodge now works against any wounds inflicted in fight sub phase, I am nit sure if overwatch counts or not
- bomber is 10 av on all sides
- it looks like Venom Blade can only be taken by the Acothyst now
- no flickerfields for anything other than venoms
- sails let a vehicle flat out 24"
- lances on infantry are a bit cheape
Faeit has an update:
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Court of the archon is now between 1 and 12 models chosen in any combination from the 4 types (so can have 12 sslyths if you want etc, thissame exact method is applied to the beastmasters where you now dont even need to take beastmasters if you wanted to), Lhamean 10pts, Ur-ghul 15, Medusae 25 and sslyth 25 and can take a venom or raider. Stats wise they look the same as before, some equipment changed though. The Lhamean now has a Shaimeshi blade, 2+ poison with a 6 to wound causing instant death (there's quite a few weapons with this rule). The medusae's eyeburst changed to a S4 template ap3.
Hellion's are fast attack, no way to change, same for wracks (elites) the only 2 squads that change their role are the kabalite warriors when they upgrade (3pts per model) to trueborn and the wyches upgrading to bloodbrides (3pts), they both are then considered Elites.
The succubus has a new weapon exclusive to her, the Archite glaive which can be used 1 or 2 handed, 1handed is S user, AP3 melee while the other is +1S, Ap2 and two handed.
I'm kind of intrigued with that "Court of the Archon" rule.
- Huskblades are ap3, cheaper, not a relic
- Racks now work on all Splinter weapons
- Wych weapons nerfed. Hydras confer Shred, Razors reroll To Hit, Shardnet/Impaler reroll 1s on To Hit and To Wound
- Stun Claw is +1S, ap6, confers ID in challenge
- Shadow Field is more expensive
- Incubi are still ap2
- Torment Gren. Launchers can now be fired, 24", blast, s1, unit hit tests Ld, takes a wound for each point it failed, no armor or cover saves, doesnt work against ATSKNF - Night Shield confers Stealth
- Hex Rifle inflicts ID on Precision Hits
- Soul Trap gives +1s for each usnaved wound inflicted in a challenge
- Reavers no longer attack while moving, now bladevanes are improved HoW. Caltrops inflict D6 rending HoWs, Gravs inflict Concussive
- Spirit Probe now improves FnP of all Deldar in 6" by 1 to a max od 4+
- Phantasm works like TGL, shorter range
- Ossefactor is assault 1, fleshbane, ap2. If something is killed then the victims unit get d6 hits with s equal to t of the victim, ap-, ignores cover
- Liquifier is now s3
- Implosion Msls are s6 ap2 blast
- Chain Flails now only give Shred
- Talos has 3 attacks, same as Cronos
- Borh Haemy and Archon improve PfP, they let a unit add a 1 to the turn number for PrP, this stacks
- Warlord traits are ultrashitty, one gives the warlord +1 ws...
- Artefacts look average too, there is the old Djinn blade which works almost the same, a helmet that gives adamantium will in 12" and perils on any double, a terrible pistol, an ghostplate that gives -2 Ld in 6" and Fear, also one of the items does not work against atsknf. There is also Animus Vitae which is a one use, assault 1, s4 ap2, 8" that if a unsaved wound is inflicted lets all Deldar add 1 to the turn number for PfP effects until the end of the game
- it says that Dodge now works against any wounds inflicted in fight sub phase, I am nit sure if overwatch counts or not
- bomber is 10 av on all sides
- it looks like Venom Blade can only be taken by the Acothyst now
- no flickerfields for anything other than venoms
- sails let a vehicle flat out 24"
- lances on infantry are a bit cheape
Not impressed.
Assuming this is true they took a fethed codex and fethed it just that few inches further, in as many orifices as possible.
granted DE like that sort of thing, but by and large this codex doesn't seem like it's worth getting out of bed for,
I don't doubt i will be able to find ways to play my DE with the new codex, but it's an uphill struggle now...
Hm.. With those rumors, is there even a reason to play with DE? You basically deploy your raiders and then lose the game since they have no flicker fields and fairly useless night shields. Lots of weird assault buffs in a game that is dominated by shooting and knights!
The most recent codexes have been pretty weak tea.
The ork one at least allows for you to lose the game in a some-what orky manner (though they did take a lot of the fun out of it).
The DE one... You show up. Look pretty. Die without doing a fething thing. (unless the codex is hiding something decent to balance out the bucket of crap we look to be getting in the face).
I'll try to be objective until the codex actually drops so that i can look at it, but GW seems determined to make me lose any empathy for the game i've been playing almost my entire life (melodrama to 11, captain!)
Uhhh... not sure what's with all the "DE can't ever do anything " posts.
Dark Lances ruin Lords of War. Haywire does it even faster. DE can take both in droves. Warriors and witches in raiders backed up by Ravagers and fliers can put a serious hurt on pretty much anyone. I don't see any rumors nurfing this. If you take redundant units, you can survive and DE can take a lot of long range fire power.
Am i the only one disappointed completely by the model line and releases? The void raven is just a unit they used to have but never had a model for. As far as new models go they didn't get much of crap. They didn't get new units either. Also what's wrong with GW now. They can't even release new units they just re-release old stuff these days. Then they make a mini-dex for full price that had supposedly a few units and formations.
I love dark eldar and their theme but something absolutely new may have been cool. This release felt kind of un-inspired. I mean they could just release a few new things to make the army feel fresh.
GW has been just releasing new codexes with no new units though i guess. That was half the point of the re-releases for me.
Don't get me wrong i think the void raven bomber looks cool but it's mostly just the jetfighter with a little extra stuff and the wracks are mostly the same too. I loved the theme and models of the previous release of dark eldar and they seemed amazing but this release feels very lackluster. Just two to three new units is all i ask.
Pretty lame. Nightshields being stealth is the only thing I feel good about, and even that is purely because it's more powerful. Old nightshields were cooler.
You think stealth is better than reduced range and flickerfield? That was a great combo before.. now raiders just get +1 to cover saves? Totally inferior to what was possible before, especially considering 7ths change to jink.
We don't seem to have gotten any new units. While adding new units for the sake of it can be iffy, it seems odd that we got nothing.
We have lost several characters, at least one of which made for interesting variants.
The models we have been given are okay but could have been used to fill the blanks we had (this is the galling part of the release, for me). Or replace the FC Beastpacks with plastic equivalents, for example.
And the Coven stuff that should be part of the codex is another separate 'book'.
On the plus side...we didn't have to wait twelve years for an update! Yay!
I don't mind the lack of new units, but the loss of Malys and all the flavor in the 'dex is as soul-crushing as it was predictable.
Predictable's the name of the game though- none of this comes as a surprise. Codex: Space Marines was the last Great Codex- everything since has ranged from ass (Tyranids) to decent but bland and uninspired (Imperial Guard).
Razorwing in FA.
Court is usable.
All vehicles have deep strike.
Power from pain seems better.
Splinter racks work on all splinter weapons (10 trueborn in a raider with cannons and carbines is 34 reroll to hit poison shots).
WWP gives ds without scatter.
Wyches special weapons improved.
Reavers lost bladevanes but the how improvement looks good.
Possible 3 talos / chronos in 1 hs slot.
NS giving stealth.
All rumors still of course.
However, I occasionally run a grotesque deathstar at the moment (10 grots, Urien, 10 spiritseers).
Based on the court changes I can now take sslyth instead who can shoot as well as have loads of high strength attacks.
No more bladevane or flickerfields feel kinda disappointing... wytches still have their overwatch -> no dodge -> die dilemma
I always appreciated bladevane and nightshields because they were tactically interesting: one was pretty much always a risk and the other gave an advantage for smart positioning.
If this is true I'm actually happy that my order for a new DE force is still on hold since 7th dropped... dodged a bullet
Gorgeous models, but I'd like for my pretty plastic dudesman to also do something unique on the field
I wonder, what about our anti-air options? Since Reavers might lose their Bladevaning-The-FMC abilities, are we supposed to make do with our Flyers alone?
One of the good changes is that we are rumoured to gain some anti-Psyker relics.
Shingen wrote: Razorwing in FA.
Court is usable.
All vehicles have deep strike.
Power from pain seems better.
Splinter racks work on all splinter weapons (10 trueborn in a raider with cannons and carbines is 34 reroll to hit poison shots).
WWP gives ds without scatter.
Wyches special weapons improved.
Reavers lost bladevanes but the how improvement looks good.
Possible 3 talos / chronos in 1 hs slot.
NS giving stealth.
All rumors still of course.
However, I occasionally run a grotesque deathstar at the moment (10 grots, Urien, 10 spiritseers).
Based on the court changes I can now take sslyth instead who can shoot as well as have loads of high strength attacks.
IMO I don't agree
Power form pain was fine for me
Night shields are not as good now
Wyches are still total drek against other infantry - you know the ones they are supposed to be better against - should have just copied the stats from Dark Elf Witch Elves. I bet they still have WS 4 FFS.
Its bizare how powerful my Eldar Codex /army is which they can't be bothered to balance new codexes against or drop it to match.
Pfp like that is perfect for me as I like to go second and deep strike practically everything meaning as soon as troops arrive t2 on opponents t3 they get FNP.
Depends how you play but for me it's spot on.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SarisKhan wrote: I wonder, what about our anti-air options? Since Reavers might lose their Bladevaning-The-FMC abilities, are we supposed to make do with our Flyers alone?
One of the good changes is that we are rumoured to gain some anti-Psyker relics.
Reroll to hit shardcarbines will kill fmc, razorwings in FA means you can take AA and still keep ravagers.
SarisKhan wrote: I wonder, what about our anti-air options? Since Reavers might lose their Bladevaning-The-FMC abilities, are we supposed to make do with our Flyers alone?
Reroll to hit shardcarbines will kill fmc, razorwings in FA means you can take AA and still keep ravagers.
Much better than now at least!
Good idea, mass TL Poison is a decent solution. And I've been already thinking about getting a Razorwing... or two...
Swapping current bladevanes for an improved HoW is a straight nerf- there's no getting around it. Unless we're looking at something like strength 6 AP3 HoW (which we're almost assuredly not- more likely it's just strength 6 HoW), then the ability is now garbage because Reavers are garbage in assault against everything and HoW that allows cover-saves isn't going to force enough wounds through to even the odds for them.
Bladevanes was great before because it allowed Reavers to avoid committing to an assault they couldn't win by just turbo-boosting over the unit and continuing to enjoy their 3+ jink-save. Now, they're going to have to actually get into an assault to do any damage, which means death.
I suppose one way to alleviate that problem would be to give them hit and run via the Bar- oops.
rtb01 wrote: I'd hang fire on the razorwings, theyre still in heavy support on the site.
Maybe they're holding off on that until the Codex comes out?
Re: the Voidraven- after seeing the 360 view of it, looks like the missiles are no longer just stuck on the underbelly of the aircraft but now stored in pods.
I hope that ossefactors have good range
Also ,chronos looks good if rumors are true ,with that new blast and fnp buff he seems to be nice support/shooting unit
Vargheist wrote: I hope that ossefactors have good range
Also ,chronos looks good if rumors are true ,with that new blast and fnp buff he seems to be nice support/shooting unit
BlaxicanX wrote: Swapping current bladevanes for an improved HoW is a straight nerf- there's no getting around it. Unless we're looking at something like strength 6 AP3 HoW (which we're almost assuredly not- more likely it's just strength 6 HoW), then the ability is now garbage because Reavers are garbage in assault against everything and HoW that allows cover-saves isn't going to force enough wounds through to even the odds for them.
Bladevanes was great before because it allowed Reavers to avoid committing to an assault they couldn't win by just turbo-boosting over the unit and continuing to enjoy their 3+ jink-save. Now, they're going to have to actually get into an assault to do any damage, which means death.
I suppose one way to alleviate that problem would be to give them hit and run via the Bar- oops.
I think so too
It was useful in my experience because my opponent used to turbo-boost behind my units, making me split off something to try and charge them. It was surely interesting because they were often near enough to try a charge but it was not assured.
Once in combat... reavers were usually done for.
The old bladevane was good, while HoW is nothing to write home about on a reaver (which isn't actually suited to close combat).
It seems the trend is to cut off the unique abilities of each army... this does not bode well for my necrons either.
If it's an attempt to balance stuff, this isn't balance but it's making everything bland
Reaver nerf does suck. The gun is terrible, the points are stupid expensive, and they aren't as durable as their preppy kin. Unless they're like 12 points a model, its pass. (Don't see why you'd nerf em. You'd think they'd love ot sell more 45 dollar kits).
As for the nightshields/flickerfield nerf. I don't see this as a nerf. This is actually a bit of a buff. Especially with splinter racks.
Basically, in this day and age, everyone's range except for Tau is 42 or above. There are soooo many auto cannons, las cannons, battle cannons, etc. Shaving 6 inches won't save you. Drop pod melta will still explode your face even on a single die.
The yacht club only works now adays because you can jink turn one without moving. Stealth basically makes your jink a 3 up. Thats pretty nice. And remember, if you jink, your passengers still fire at full BS. Hence the racks. The emphasis on the boat has shifted to an emphasis on the contents.
Am I polishing a turd? Hell yes. Compared to preppydar we're still ork levels of bad. But I truly don't see the loss of flickers and nightshields as a nerf.
The big nerf is if (and I think they did) increase the points of the boats and everything else. Stuff already cost too much for a cardboard box on a hover platform.
Goresaw wrote: I need to see point values before we truly judge.
Reaver nerf does suck. The gun is terrible, the points are stupid expensive, and they aren't as durable as their preppy kin. Unless they're like 12 points a model, its pass. (Don't see why you'd nerf em. You'd think they'd love ot sell more 45 dollar kits).
As for the nightshields/flickerfield nerf. I don't see this as a nerf. This is actually a bit of a buff. Especially with splinter racks.
Basically, in this day and age, everyone's range except for Tau is 42 or above. There are soooo many auto cannons, las cannons, battle cannons, etc. Shaving 6 inches won't save you. Drop pod melta will still explode your face even on a single die.
The yacht club only works now adays because you can jink turn one without moving. Stealth basically makes your jink a 3 up. Thats pretty nice. And remember, if you jink, your passengers still fire at full BS. Hence the racks. The emphasis on the boat has shifted to an emphasis on the contents.
Am I polishing a turd? Hell yes. Compared to preppydar we're still ork levels of bad. But I truly don't see the loss of flickers and nightshields as a nerf.
The big nerf is if (and I think they did) increase the points of the boats and everything else. Stuff already cost too much for a cardboard box on a hover platform.
I did not say they were weak but this list leaves a sour taste in my mouth - sepcially compared to my still OP Eldar Codex
get rid of all the SC's - yeah we knew it was coming but its still rubbish
Wyches appear to be still crap at what they are supposed to be exceptional at.
no flickerfields except on Venoms - awesome................I assume it does not protect against the template attack on passengers either
Husk blade now AP3
Artefacts..........
Liquifer worse
Night shield was quite fun before now................
Regarding the Reavers, some of the rumours mentioned that their new HoW will have Rending and that they gain the Hit and Run USR. I wanted them to act as anti-FMC in my army, but they could actually see some other use if that rumour turns out true.
Fayric wrote: Reavers needed a nerf, honestly.
And nightshields for 3+ jink is just awesome.
Not really.
There's so much ignore cover out there that this is pretty much useless in a lot of games.
And of course in doing so you're really hampering the only long ranged firepower you have in return, which of course means that the poison weapons you have are going to be of even less use if you're not opening up enemy tanks etc.
Anyone saying DE is a weak army dont know how to play it.
This will be the last time we see this line of argument used in the thread.
If this is the level of argument one is going to bring to the forum then it's better you just don't bother posting.
.. so my reavers have now been turned from a fast harassing unit into a one shot suicide unit, that will presumably be unable to be supported by anything as radical as a character on a bike as there's no model for that ..? Thanks GW.
Poison racks affecting all poison weapons might be helpful, far less so though if splinter cannons are indeed salvo. And of course you survive the raider exploding around first time something looks at it.
These are my immediate thoughts on how my army list will change (obviously points dependant)
HQ
The Baron is out. There goes my HQ. However the new webway portal is interesting. Dropping an Archon plus either a retinue of Sslyth and Lhamaeans or a group of grotesques right into my opponents back line on turn 2/3 could be fun.
Probably use a haemy or two too if I feel a key unit (like the grotesques above)need a PFP boost.
TROOPS
Haywire Wyches are gone. A single grenade just won't cut it. I also can't see myself using Wyches in larger groups either.. However, raiders full of Kaballites got boosted. Free DS and racks work on cannons. That's my go-to option so far. This may shock you, but I MIGHT even throw a shredder in here if they're similarly priced and get shred.
ELITES
I rarely used Elites before. Occasionally a blastboat or Incubi squad got a run out. The latter might still see use. Grotesques have already been mentioned too.
Mandrakes may actually be usable, as ignores cover lacks the pervasiveness in my group that others seem to suffer. Set up camp on an objective early on with a 2+ save and use baleblast to irritate. They won't be gamechangers but it'll be nice for such pretty models to see the table.
FAST ATTACK
I think this section got disrupted the most. No Baron for the beastpack, blade vanes became boring, and choices have to compete with the Razorwing too.
Bikes will likely get used for tank hunting. Heatlances in the shooting phase, then charge with rending if hullpoints need stripping or fallback to safety if not.
Hellions might get a run out. They might not. They're cheaper, but what would I do with them?
There's been no work on Scourges. I find them very fragile for their current points so don't tend to use them. However with Haywire Wyches out I will be looking for reliable anti-tank, and they get haywire blasters. (I like haywire, ok). Would like to know more.
Beast packs got nerfbatted. Still fast and potentially dangerous though, depending on points.
Razorwing will get play, through sheer favouritism. I converted my own before the current model came out.
HEAVY SUPPORT
Both my Ravagers are going to be sat behind cover, as far from the enemy as is effective, blasting away. No change there then. Stealth will be handy. DS likely won't. So far, in my head, most of the unit choices I want are starting off the table. There's only these and (Shockingly) mandrakes that will prevent a T1 auto lose.
Talos are slow but fun. It'll be nice to have the option of taking more without losing Ravagers. Never used a Chronos but if they take the same slot as Talos that might change.
The Voidraven apparently got more expensive and lost a point of armour on front & side. Plus it's competing with Ravagers and pain engines. PLUS although I love the model, it's £50. It's certainly not my first choice.
LORD OF WAR
I'd be really excited to use a LoW, IF WE HAD ONE.
Sincerly disappointed we don't get an option here. However LoW haven't really taken off in my group anyway. I won't be disadvantaged by my lack.
Leggy wrote: These are my immediate thoughts on how my army list will change (obviously points dependant)
HQ
The Baron is out. There goes my HQ. However the new webway portal is interesting. Dropping an Archon plus either a retinue of Sslyth and Lhamaeans or a group of grotesques right into my opponents back line on turn 2/3 could be fun.
Probably use a haemy or two too if I feel a key unit (like the grotesques above)need a PFP boost.
TROOPS
Haywire Wyches are gone. A single grenade just won't cut it. I also can't see myself using Wyches in larger groups either.. However, raiders full of Kaballites got boosted. Free DS and racks work on cannons. That's my go-to option so far. This may shock you, but I MIGHT even throw a shredder in here if they're similarly priced and get shred.
ELITES
I rarely used Elites before. Occasionally a blastboat or Incubi squad got a run out. The latter might still see use. Grotesques have already been mentioned too.
Mandrakes may actually be usable, as ignores cover lacks the pervasiveness in my group that others seem to suffer. Set up camp on an objective early on with a 2+ save and use baleblast to irritate. They won't be gamechangers but it'll be nice for such pretty models to see the table.
FAST ATTACK
I think this section got disrupted the most. No Baron for the beastpack, blade vanes became boring, and choices have to compete with the Razorwing too.
Bikes will likely get used for tank hunting. Heatlances in the shooting phase, then charge with rending if hullpoints need stripping or fallback to safety if not.
Hellions might get a run out. They might not. They're cheaper, but what would I do with them?
There's been no work on Scourges. I find them very fragile for their current points so don't tend to use them. However with Haywire Wyches out I will be looking for reliable anti-tank, and they get haywire blasters. (I like haywire, ok). Would like to know more.
Beast packs got nerfbatted. Still fast and potentially dangerous though, depending on points.
Razorwing will get play, through sheer favouritism. I converted my own before the current model came out.
HEAVY SUPPORT
Both my Ravagers are going to be sat behind cover, as far from the enemy as is effective, blasting away. No change there then. Stealth will be handy. DS likely won't. So far, in my head, most of the unit choices I want are starting off the table. There's only these and (Shockingly) mandrakes that will prevent a T1 auto lose.
Talos are slow but fun. It'll be nice to have the option of taking more without losing Ravagers. Never used a Chronos but if they take the same slot as Talos that might change.
The Voidraven apparently got more expensive and lost a point of armour on front & side. Plus it's competing with Ravagers and pain engines. PLUS although I love the model, it's £50. It's certainly not my first choice.
LORD OF WAR
I'd be really excited to use a LoW, IF WE HAD ONE.
Sincerly disappointed we don't get an option here. However LoW haven't really taken off in my group anyway. I won't be disadvantaged by my lack.
You know, I would have said that there might be a LoW in the codex proper, BUT you'd think that if there was GW would be showing it off. Like, "enjoy our new oversized talos-gimp, complete with explosive ballgag and powerwhips"
What's the deal with Wyches and a "single grenade"? Sure they can throw only one in the Shooting Phase, but they're free to use one-per-each in Assault Phase when fighting a Vehicle.
Deep within the twisted city of Nottingham, a race of dark creatures, twisted parodies of a once great race, plots the doom of all. These creatures delight in the torment of others, and regularly launch realspace raids to take from the wallets of lesser races.
Pray they do not update your codex while you're still alive...
Only the Hekatrix in a Wych unit has access to Haywire now, apparently. That means 1 attack in the shooting phase, and one in close combat.
I can't say definitively which source it's from. I've been reading rumours all over the net. Possibly Warseer though.
agnosto wrote:Will someone please explain to me how a 3+ cover save on a paper mache vehicle is better than a 4++ ?
Flickers are a 5+*.
Honestly, so much of this is likely rumours, and is definately not confirmed till I have the book in my hands.
Though if Webway Portals now give just ONE unit Deepstrike... what's the point? Also, feth anyone who bought the Webway Portal Marker, or ran a Webway list.
And what am I going to do with these? (Old image, more work done since, but still)
mercury14 wrote: Wyches lack haywire grenades now? Where do we see this?
Also maybe Reaver bike point cost has been reduced. That could give them potential.
Eldar Jetbikes are 17 points a model for a troops unit with 3+ armor.
Marines are 21 points a model for a T5 3+ save unit that can be made into troops.
Ork bikes are 18 PPM for a T5 4+ armor model
Reaver Jetbikes are currently 22 PPM for a FA unit with 5+ armor, but the ability to do d3 wounds by turboboosting over a unit.
New bladevanes seem to trade that for an improved HoW attack, so they have to get into combat and face overwatch and cc attacks.
They need to at least drop to 15-16 points a model to be on par with other bike units. 16 points would be +7 points over a warrior, which fits the pricing of recent marine bikes, while Orks pay 12 points for their bikes since it adds in the eavy armor upgrade as well. Meanwhile Guardians get bikes for 8 points and they get power armor added in that price.
agnosto wrote:Will someone please explain to me how a 3+ cover save on a paper mache vehicle is better than a 4++ ?
Flickers are a 5+*.
Honestly, so much of this is likely rumours, and is definately not confirmed till I have the book in my hands.
Though if Webway Portals now give just ONE unit Deepstrike... what's the point?
Also, feth anyone who bought the Webway Portal Marker, or ran a Webway list.
And what am I going to do with these?
(Old image, more work done since, but still)
BFG terrain...
Webway strike got severely damaged ages ago, frankly I prefer deepstrike now, you can drop a maximized unit of grotesques into the heart of the enemy.
agnosto wrote: Will someone please explain to me how a 3+ cover save on a paper mache vehicle is better than a 4++ ?
Its not. But being as flickerfields were a ++5 , not a ++4 up, I'll take the thing that exists in our reality.
Ah, that's right. For some reason I was thinking of the old Tau disruption pods (Tau were my first army and I just got into DE about 5 months ago).
Edit:
I'm constantly hypnotized by the videos in MGS's signatures.
Also, when disruption pods were nerfed nobody really complained about it too much because, well...riptides; what did DE get? A flier that's on the board for 2 or 3 turns a game and is made out of tissue. Yay?
Edit v2.0:
I get how all the fear-based stuff is fluffy but fear is a nearly useless USR in 40K (works fairly well in fantasy). If all the "Gets this rule that doesn't work on ATSKNF" and Warlord traits on Faeit are true, you can just ignore most of the wargear and warlord traits...makes the game simpler I suppose.
Fayric wrote: Reavers needed a nerf, honestly.
And nightshields for 3+ jink is just awesome.
Anyone saying DE is a weak army dont know how to play it.
3+ cover is strong, but isnt that good when looking at ALL the Ignore cover out there, Everyone that will think about fighting DE will make sure to bring Ignore cover. DA, tau, Eldar, SM, IG, Necros and CSM will eat through Cover and wreck us if any type of tailoring is made.
The -6" and 5++ was amazing combo to stop these from happening.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Webway strike got severely damaged ages ago, frankly I prefer deepstrike now, you can drop a maximized unit of grotesques into the heart of the enemy.
at least when we used the WWP template your guys gained an extra 3" away from the model that dropped the WWP plus their 6 move... It wasn't bad for trueblaster squads who could spread out and fire...
Now they will be all clumped up within 6" if they shoot instead of running to spread out...
The whole DE player base was crying out for a return to the old assault portals!
mercury14 wrote: If Night Shields give stealth that's a substantial buff over the pretty useless -6" thing.
-6" stopped melta attacks they had to deep strike/ move within 6"! OK staying 18" from bolters wasn't a big win... but bolters had to be within 6" to rapid fire.
Not so great when get are now getting rapid fired with twice as many bolter rounds.... And have to deal with melta guns again...
Shingen wrote: Sometimes when I read some of the crying on this forum it literally does make me lol.
Dark Eldar are not tier 1 that's for sure but there are still ways of screwing over mechdar and other lists.
Wait send see what the codex beings.
Notice you are poking fun at others here? Seriously guy, stupid strategy unless you want to start a flame war and get the thread locked. Argue with points related to what we have heard rather then being that dick who laughs at others disappointment.
mercury14 wrote: Wyches lack haywire grenades now? Where do we see this?
Also maybe Reaver bike point cost has been reduced. That could give them potential.
Eldar Jetbikes are 17 points a model for a troops unit with 3+ armor.
Marines are 21 points a model for a T5 3+ save unit that can be made into troops.
Ork bikes are 18 PPM for a T5 4+ armor model
Reaver Jetbikes are currently 22 PPM for a FA unit with 5+ armor, but the ability to do d3 wounds by turboboosting over a unit.
New bladevanes seem to trade that for an improved HoW attack, so they have to get into combat and face overwatch and cc attacks.
They need to at least drop to 15-16 points a model to be on par with other bike units. 16 points would be +7 points over a warrior, which fits the pricing of recent marine bikes, while Orks pay 12 points for their bikes since it adds in the eavy armor upgrade as well. Meanwhile Guardians get bikes for 8 points and they get power armor added in that price.
Honestly Reavers should hit the 12ppm mark. T4 with a 5+ save and one of the WORST guns on any bike in the game all on a GEQ...yea 12PPM, especially if bladevaning becomes HoW. Consider a seeker is 12ppm right now and is miles ahead IMO as a FA dedicated assault unit.
That won't happen though considering we know hellions are 13ppm and are just flat worse then even reavers lol.
- Huskblades are ap3, cheaper, not a relic
- Racks now work on all Splinter weapons
- Wych weapons nerfed. Hydras confer Shred, Razors reroll To Hit, Shardnet/Impaler reroll 1s on To Hit and To Wound
- Stun Claw is +1S, ap6, confers ID in challenge
- Shadow Field is more expensive
- Incubi are still ap2
- Torment Gren. Launchers can now be fired, 24", blast, s1, unit hit tests Ld, takes a wound for each point it failed, no armor or cover saves, doesnt work against ATSKNF - Night Shield confers Stealth
- Hex Rifle inflicts ID on Precision Hits
- Soul Trap gives +1s for each usnaved wound inflicted in a challenge
- Reavers no longer attack while moving, now bladevanes are improved HoW. Caltrops inflict D6 rending HoWs, Gravs inflict Concussive
- Spirit Probe now improves FnP of all Deldar in 6" by 1 to a max od 4+
- Phantasm works like TGL, shorter range
- Ossefactor is assault 1, fleshbane, ap2. If something is killed then the victims unit get d6 hits with s equal to t of the victim, ap-, ignores cover
- Liquifier is now s3
- Implosion Msls are s6 ap2 blast
- Chain Flails now only give Shred
- Talos has 3 attacks, same as Cronos
- Borh Haemy and Archon improve PfP, they let a unit add a 1 to the turn number for PrP, this stacks
- Warlord traits are ultrashitty, one gives the warlord +1 ws...
- Artefacts look average too, there is the old Djinn blade which works almost the same, a helmet that gives adamantium will in 12" and perils on any double, a terrible pistol, an ghostplate that gives -2 Ld in 6" and Fear, also one of the items does not work against atsknf. There is also Animus Vitae which is a one use, assault 1, s4 ap2, 8" that if a unsaved wound is inflicted lets all Deldar add 1 to the turn number for PfP effects until the end of the game
- it says that Dodge now works against any wounds inflicted in fight sub phase, I am nit sure if overwatch counts or not
- bomber is 10 av on all sides
- it looks like Venom Blade can only be taken by the Acothyst now
- no flickerfields for anything other than venoms
- sails let a vehicle flat out 24"
- lances on infantry are a bit cheape
Main thing that made me sad here is (if it turns out to be true) reavers don't do flyover attacks anymore, that was my favourite tactic.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Webway strike got severely damaged ages ago, frankly I prefer deepstrike now, you can drop a maximized unit of grotesques into the heart of the enemy.
at least when we used the WWP template your guys gained an extra 3" away from the model that dropped the WWP plus their 6 move... It wasn't bad for trueblaster squads who could spread out and fire...
Now they will be all clumped up within 6" if they shoot instead of running to spread out...
The whole DE player base was crying out for a return to the old assault portals!
mercury14 wrote: If Night Shields give stealth that's a substantial buff over the pretty useless -6" thing.
-6" stopped melta attacks they had to deep strike/ move within 6"!
OK staying 18" from bolters wasn't a big win... but bolters had to be within 6" to rapid fire.
Not so great when get are now getting rapid fired with twice as many bolter rounds....
And have to deal with melta guns again...
Panic...
Actually bolters need 9" to rapid fire. Rapid fire is not a set 12", it is half od max range. Nightshields reduce the range to 18" thus making rapid fire 9"
Melta never really mattered because our boats are made of paper. Plasma is probably the better bet because you get twice the shots. and still explodes us on a 5+.
Gah, really hope those rumours are false. AP3 huskblades makes challenges really hard, harder than they are currently with a S3 model. Ditto on the shadowfield, isn't it expensive enough now?! Not sure what the point of Archons is if they're more expensive for less slashy. Relics sound entirely pointless.
Based on the Succubus rumours, she'll probably become the default HQ for riding with Incubi.
Ossefactor & Dodge rules sound good, but the Reaver rumour really sucks the character out of them. No flickerfields on Raiders really hurts their gunship potential.
What's the point of making the liquifer S3 too?
If these are true, seems like a lot of nerfs & character removal for no reason.
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