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Post by: judgedoug
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:In any case, I left appreciating WFB, but wanting to genuinely play KoW. I feel like the hobbyist in me could love collecting/painting a WFB army, but the obscenely quick, elegant, tactical play of KoW just really impresses. If you haven't seen it played, try to, because while we've all heard the "quick to learn/fast playing" line from other game companies, it is almost shocking how lean, but not shallow KoW ends up being.
The great thing is you can use your high fantasy WHFB models in Kings of War, as KoW is model-neutral. Use whatever you want!
I'm currently painting an army composed of Red Box Games' Helsvakt and Mierce Miniatures' Fomoraic models.
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Post by: Eilif
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:So I thought I would share something for fence-sitters and those considering the game…
...What really struck me was that KoW was a game where I felt the nuance and depth was really happening in the movement phase (orders). Between the quick turns and movement really bearing the weight of a players complex decisions, I felt like the game really depicted what I would expect this scale of battle to look like. Considering both games were played at 2000pts of their respective points-systems, KoW also had a great table presence with what, at a glance, appeared to be twice the model count on the table.
WFB seemed to just drag down with players frequently arguing about minutia in terms of which models could and couldn't contribute to combat, etc... and movement seemed secondary to a surprisingly long "magic" phase. The Elf player also seemed to do the VAST majority of his work during the magic phase, and seemed markedly disinterested in worrying about positioning, etc.
You do a great job of laying ot the fundamental difference between the games, and largely between GW and Mantic rules. For a number of reasons, KoW really is a game that focuses on maneuvering. That is not to say that WHFB doesn't reward good maneuvering, but the Magic phase, interaction of various special rules, and other minutiae take much of the focus of playing GW rules.
The positive side of this is that WHFB factions have a flavor and uniqueness that plays out in the game more than KoW. However, I'll take streamlined tactical gameplay over game-slowing faction-specific detail any day. IMHO, the specificity of WHFB is the kind of thing that belongs in Warband skirmishes and RPG's, not company-level battle games.
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Post by: judgedoug
 Eilif wrote:
The positive side of this is that WHFB factions have a flavor and uniqueness that plays out in the game more than KoW. However, I'll take streamlined tactical gameplay over game-slowing faction-specific detail any day. IMHO, the specificity of WHFB is the kind of thing that belongs in Warband skirmishes and RPG's, not company-level battle games.
I dunno, several of the KoW army wide special rules add in a huge amount of flavor - all Undead being Shambling (and the Evil Dead magic), all Dwarves being headstrong, all Orcs having Crushing Strength, Men having Very Inspiring - that makes them play quite differently than other armies with literally no extra fiddly time added.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Update #12 Nov 20 2014
A little piece of history!
Yesterday we broke through the original Kings of War Kickstarter Backer number – which means our special backer goal has fallen!
We will now enhance the artwork to a whole new level of detail, and print a limited Kickstarter-only commemorative run of this brand new Map of Mantica and add it free to every pledge of Living Legend ($50) and up.
The reverse side of the map will be a poster featuring the new Kings of War 2nd Edition artwork.
Where are we going next?
The next phase of this campaign is going to be focusing in on new units – whether that be filling in the gaps in the existing armies, or adding new units to the army lists and making some new models.
Participation Time
The guys in the studio and the rules committee has been bashing ideas against each other for new units that we could add to the existing armies. We want Kings of War to be the stand-out fantasy game that makes people go “wow!” and we’re looking for new additions that make the army distinctly “Mantic”.
With Matt Gilbert’s help, we’ve posted up a list of the new units up for consideration over here on the Mantic Blog. Let us know which you like, which you don’t and what ideas you have in the comments.
Here’s a little snippet from the Dwarfs, Forces of Nature and Forces of the Abyss:
Dwarfs
- fliers (break out of the dwarfs-are-slow-with-guns stereotype)
- giant ravens and eagles suggested to fit the mountain theme rather than machines
- stone golem/giant thing "Iron Ancestor"? "Hall Guardian"?
- dwarf sorcerer/rune priest/earth/fire priests
- Jezzails/Siege Snipers/Long-rifles
Forces of Nature
- "Wild" elves
- war hawks/eagles
- witches
- caller of the elementals (inspiring minor hero - effectively an ASB)
- shrine of the elements zapping war engine - sylvan kin champion
Forces of the Abyss
- Evil humans
- beastmen
- Abyssal war-engines
- darkspawn (unit that comes with zap or can swap for breath)
- imps
We’ve not forgotten the existing lists either, and will be creating units to fill in the gaps in range at the moment – we’ll be adding each of these units free to their respective Mega-Armies so that they get better in value, and grow in points costs as well!
Here are some sneaky teaser images of the first few…
[teasers to ??? to bother cut and pasting)
]
And finally…
The name of the Kickstarter game is backer number, and Matt Gilbert has created these excellent Kings of War avatars to help us spread the word.
You can download them all here:
Download Kings of War 2 Avatar Pack (ZIP, 5mb)
Please help us spread the word – the more backers we get, the more stretch goals we’ll break, the more free stuff we can give you!
PS: Don't forgot to check out yesterday's Add-on Wednesday offerings for some great deals!
/
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Post by: Azreal13
BEASTMEN!!,
But, you know, Mierce type aesthetic (ie brutal and feral) rather than GW style (ie alright but with some really derpy crap)
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Post by: judgedoug
posted on the blog but I'll repost here
Kingdoms of Men should have arbalests/scorpions. That omission is holding the army back from truly being able to represent Romans through Medievals.
Beastmen should be in the Nature list and therefore Neutral! Not all beastmens are baddies. Plus "beastmen" can cover a wild array of things (and perhaps the unit should have options, like choose one of these "feral, +1 CS for xxx points; winged, unit has Fly, for xxx points; headstrong for xxx points; long-legged (ignores movement penalties) for xxx points; something else; something else, OR something else."
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Post by: squall018
I would love for them to add beastmen to the abyssal or forces of nature armies. I have always wanted a beastmen army for WHFB, but never wanted to pay GW prices for a horde army. I would use it for both WHFB and KOW, but I would buy a boatload.
The new dwarf artwork is pretty sweet too!
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Post by: NTRabbit
The blog also mentions the giant centrepiece units a lot of people have been hanging out for
http://manticblog.com/2014/11/20/new-units-for-kings-of-war-2nd-edition/
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Post by: Sabotage!
Oh man, if they did some well executed evil humans in mail/full helms or plate/full helms, especially if in hard plastic, Mantic would see a ton of cash from me. Finding generic evil human troops is surprisingly difficult these days (well at least ones that look half decent and are proportioned like a normal human).
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Post by: Paradigm
One of the comments on that post mentions Dwarf Bear Cavalry with steam-powered Rotary Cannons.
Mantic, sculpt it and they will come...
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I predict a bit of a surge from this,
but later a crash as people realise most if not all of this is not going to be made (or if It's made not in hard plastic).....
remember they've said they'll be limited in what they can do in this material in this KS
(longer term if they can do all that in decent material Brilliant)
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Post by: .Mikes.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:What really struck me was that KoW was a game where I felt the nuance and depth was really happening in the movement phase (orders). Between the quick turns and movement really bearing the weight of a players complex decisions, I felt like the game really depicted what I would expect this scale of battle to look like.
Nailed it.
I read this as 'asbestos scorpions' and my first thought was, "....go on."
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Eilif wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote: dragqueeninspace wrote:
Why would they become the standard over the men at arms kit which is 33% better with twice the options? Yes they would be fantasy but they would be just as likely to not fit into the aesthetic of a random army as the historics.
Because Perry minis are not fantasy minis. They don't look like fantasy minis for a variety of reasons. They look dinky next to almost any plastic fantasy miniature. Their weapons lack that je ne sais quoi that makes fantasy weapons exciting; plus they are dinky. Their poses are boring; fantasy miniatures should ideally look ready to fight mythical beasts, but Perry minis are better posed for their more historically-accurate battle with dysentery.
Now, I haven't bought any of their most recent kits since the WOTR infantry let me down hard, so it's possible this new kit fixes all of those issues. If so, please let me know.
I agree that they would become the standard non- GW option based on being fantasy and radically more affordable than GW, and they were scaled to Mantic rather than perry, they would fit in better with a wider variety of fantasy minis.
That said, I disagree about the necessity of dramatic poses for rank-and-file fantasy minis. For heroes, I like something flamboyant, but for rank and file I actually prefer more subdued poses for both the look and the ease of ranking.
Asside from pose and size, I'd be curious what you didn't like about the WorR infantry. I don't own them, but they seem nice in all the reviews I've seen.
I'm pretty much a pose and size queen. With my eyesight, the overall shape and design aesthetic is what draws me to a mini, rather than crisp details or intricate sculpting. I'm also more of a modeler than a gamer, so a unit with essentially one build for ranking is the opposite of what I enjoy. Besides that, the kits are very well designed. The sculpting is easily on par with GW (for obvious reasons) and the pieces go together well. There are a lot of options that other people would probably find exciting, but it is impossible to model each mini in the kit into an attacking pose.
Truly, they are the Ferrari of minivans.
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Post by: Tanakosyke22
Alright, I might be tempted to do something with Beastmen also now if that happens. I hope the rules will still be free on their website.
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Post by: edlowe
Anybody else feel that this ks is a bit of a venture into the unknown? And I mean that in a good way.
I wasn't expecing the world wide campaign, especially as such an early goal. Then again you coukd say its an 'Over priced' goal to give away free units later.
I did think we would be seeing some new units to fill existing missing gaps but it looks like we maybe heading towards getting some brand new units and concepts to make the armies more 'mantic unique' (Dwarf eagle riders?)
Im not sure where this ks will end up but I do hope they won't forget the abyssals and give us the moloch units that many of us want.
Should be an interesting ride.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
I think they should change Beastmen to Goatmen and do them with a medieval style.
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Post by: adamsouza
 RobertsMinis wrote:I think they should change Beastmen to Goatmen and do them with a medieval style.
When you say beastmen I think of goatmen first and this guy second
I would be okay with either 
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Post by: Eilif
Very interested in evil humans and beastmen, but as others have suggested, only if it's in hard plastic.
BobtheInquisitor wrote:I'm pretty much a pose and size queen. With my eyesight, the overall shape and design aesthetic is what draws me to a mini, rather than crisp details or intricate sculpting. I'm also more of a modeler than a gamer, so a unit with essentially one build for ranking is the opposite of what I enjoy. Besides that, the kits are very well designed. The sculpting is easily on par with GW (for obvious reasons) and the pieces go together well. There are a lot of options that other people would probably find exciting, but it is impossible to model each mini in the kit into an attacking pose.
Thanks Bob,
Seeing where you're coming from, your comments make alot of sense. As you point out, like most historical figs, Perry figs in general don't seem to be focused on dynamic action poses, but rather a mix.
 judgedoug wrote: Eilif wrote:
The positive side of this is that WHFB factions have a flavor and uniqueness that plays out in the game more than KoW. However, I'll take streamlined tactical gameplay over game-slowing faction-specific detail any day. IMHO, the specificity of WHFB is the kind of thing that belongs in Warband skirmishes and RPG's, not company-level battle games.
I dunno, several of the KoW army wide special rules add in a huge amount of flavor - all Undead being Shambling (and the Evil Dead magic), all Dwarves being headstrong, all Orcs having Crushing Strength, Men having Very Inspiring - that makes them play quite differently than other armies with literally no extra fiddly time added.
KoW armies definitely have some flavor in the form of a general rule or two to give an army a bit of a twist. Enough to differentiate an army, but KoW still has many instances where two races will have units that are near-identical. This really doesn't bother me. I have no problem with an elf on a horse and a human on a horse having relative parity, but some folks cant' stand it.
WHFB writers appeal to this kind of person and seem so obsessed flavor and differentiation that they create near- RPG levels of differentiation between units and then numerous special rules on top of that.
I didn't mean to dig on KoW, I just wanted to be realistic about the contrast in levels of differentiation and "flavor" between the two games. I'd rather have more abstraction and a cleaner playing experience than a crunchy ruleset with too much detail.
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Post by: GrimDork
Looking over that full list of things they potentially want to add... I'd say at least half of it would just be bringing KoW to parity with WFB in terms of unit types offered per faction. There are some unique/unusual gems, however, like eagles/ravens for dwarfs and a slave unit for twilight kin.
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Post by: adamsouza
I would like larger undead, like Undead Ogres.
Something beefier than an Ogre Zombie/Skeleton, like Ogre Revenants
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
I'm going to go with the working assumption that anything in Dungeon Saga WILL become a unit before long. They aren't a company big enough (yet) to ignore an already tooled mold for something like Undead Trolls.
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Post by: adamsouza
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:I'm going to go with the working assumption that anything in Dungeon Saga WILL become a unit before long. They aren't a company big enough (yet) to ignore an already tooled mold for something like Undead Trolls.
I was unaware as I didn't follow Dungeon Saga.
That troll will do nicely.
and I guess that means this is what we can look forward to for the Abyss
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Post by: squall018
They are tooling all that stuff for DS in boardgame plastic. So I wouldn't assume that all of that will crossover to KOW.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I wouldn't be surprised to find rules for Dungeon Saga's figures in Kings of War (and vice versa, for that matter).
Board game pieces or not, zombie trolls would certainly fill an interesting niche in an undead army.
Plus, I can remember seeing quite a few people out there who padded their fantasy armies with Battlemaster figures back in the day! No different than that really.
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Post by: adamsouza
 highlord tamburlaine wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to find rules for Dungeon Saga's figures in Kings of War (and vice versa, for that matter).
Board game pieces or not, zombie trolls would certainly fill an interesting niche in an undead army.
Plus, I can remember seeing quite a few people out there who padded their fantasy armies with Battlemaster figures back in the day! No different than that really.
My first Undead Army for Warhammer Fantasy had units made up mostly of Heroquest Skeletons and Zombies. I must have bought six boxes of Heroquest just to bulk up on baddies
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Zombie Trolls will pull double duty for me as "Plague Molochs" to go with my Creature Caster beasties as allies for my Orc/Ogre tribe.
LOVE the way allies are handled in KoW 
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Post by: GrimDork
^Oh I know! It almost makes the fan-lists for non-mantic races unnecessary (though I still appreciate them), you can get a lot of counts-as mileage out of combining just a couple of different armies.
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Post by: Zond
I'm in for a dollar. Not sure if I want the rules or models or even anything however plenty of time to make my mind up.
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Post by: adamsouza
Zond wrote:I'm in for a dollar. Not sure if I want the rules or models or even anything however plenty of time to make my mind up.
Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to share you general apathy for the KoW2 KS 
I just noticed that those all say Kickstarter Exclusive.
Still hoping they make nonhuman undead models.
Ogres have an entire army, aren't there enough dead Ogres around for necromancers to raise ? 
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Post by: judgedoug
 adamsouza wrote:
I just noticed that those all say Kickstarter Exclusive.
Still hoping they make nonhuman undead models.
Ogres have an entire army, aren't there enough dead Ogres around for necromancers to raise ?
The resin versions were KS Exclusive; the boardgame plastic versions are not.
As for undead ogres, I posit that using the Allies rule, field them as Lesser Obsidian Golems as they have Shambling as well (so can be Dark Surged).
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Post by: GrimDork
The *exclusive* part is that they're in resin. I think there's a good chance the board game plastic minis will see a retail release separate from the main box, especially if we nag them enough
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Post by: adamsouza
I don't have any issue with using board game plastic minis if they provide more variety to available forces.
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Post by: GrimDork
Oh me either, I'm planning to make some trays to mount the stuff from DS, and probably Bones 2 as well. All of those models are in the boxed game for sure, the specific thing you linked was the collectors edition resin add-on which itself was exclusive to backers.
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Post by: Zond
Hardly apathy. Just watching with interest, even if nothing immediately appeals to me.
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Post by: GrimDork
^That's why they invented the 48 hour warning system, and why clicking that button is dangerous  Hmm seems like an OK deal, remind me! Come back in a few weeks, holy crap, I WANT ALL THE THINGS.
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Post by: Gallahad
Eilif wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote: dragqueeninspace wrote:
Why would they become the standard over the men at arms kit which is 33% better with twice the options? Yes they would be fantasy but they would be just as likely to not fit into the aesthetic of a random army as the historics.
Because Perry minis are not fantasy minis. They don't look like fantasy minis for a variety of reasons. They look dinky next to almost any plastic fantasy miniature. Their weapons lack that je ne sais quoi that makes fantasy weapons exciting; plus they are dinky. Their poses are boring; fantasy miniatures should ideally look ready to fight mythical beasts, but Perry minis are better posed for their more historically-accurate battle with dysentery.
Now, I haven't bought any of their most recent kits since the WOTR infantry let me down hard, so it's possible this new kit fixes all of those issues. If so, please let me know.
I agree that they would become the standard non- GW option based on being fantasy and radically more affordable than GW, and they were scaled to Mantic rather than perry, they would fit in better with a wider variety of fantasy minis.
That said, I disagree about the necessity of dramatic poses for rank-and-file fantasy minis. For heroes, I like something flamboyant, but for rank and file I actually prefer more subdued poses for both the look and the ease of ranking.
Asside from pose and size, I'd be curious what you didn't like about the WorR infantry. I don't own them, but they seem nice in all the reviews I've seen.
Aside from pose and size, I don't dislike too much. But that seems a bit like a car salesman asking "aside from the design and the seating capacity, what don't you like about this car?" I like the Perry proportions, but they are too short to use with most of my figures. Their weapons also break easily (see the bent halberd on the sprue shot you posted), and they are much harder to paint to a high standard than larger figures. Based on what actually shows up painted on the internet, I would wager that a large portion of Perry sales of their WOTR stuff go to people intending to use them for fantasy stuff. Just look at the number of Game of Thrones logs over on lead adventure for example.
Edit: Sorry I took this off topic. I'm in for a dollar in full apathy mode. I even regret the dollar.
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Post by: Mymearan
Eilif wrote:
judgedoug wrote: Eilif wrote:
The positive side of this is that WHFB factions have a flavor and uniqueness that plays out in the game more than KoW. However, I'll take streamlined tactical gameplay over game-slowing faction-specific detail any day. IMHO, the specificity of WHFB is the kind of thing that belongs in Warband skirmishes and RPG's, not company-level battle games.
I dunno, several of the KoW army wide special rules add in a huge amount of flavor - all Undead being Shambling (and the Evil Dead magic), all Dwarves being headstrong, all Orcs having Crushing Strength, Men having Very Inspiring - that makes them play quite differently than other armies with literally no extra fiddly time added.
KoW armies definitely have some flavor in the form of a general rule or two to give an army a bit of a twist. Enough to differentiate an army, but KoW still has many instances where two races will have units that are near-identical. This really doesn't bother me. I have no problem with an elf on a horse and a human on a horse having relative parity, but some folks cant' stand it.
WHFB writers appeal to this kind of person and seem so obsessed flavor and differentiation that they create near- RPG levels of differentiation between units and then numerous special rules on top of that.
I didn't mean to dig on KoW, I just wanted to be realistic about the contrast in levels of differentiation and "flavor" between the two games. I'd rather have more abstraction and a cleaner playing experience than a crunchy ruleset with too much detail.
Hmm, this makes me less interested in KoW. I'm more interested in fluff and flavor than a super tight ruleset. I'm one of those people who wants each unit to be unique.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Can't have everything I guess..
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Post by: Daedleh
Army "traits" are something that we're exploring in the rules committee to give every race a bit of unique character, however if they are done then they will be just as simple as the existing traits such as Evil Dead. I do agree that "human with a spear and shield" should be near identical to "other armies human with a spear and shield", but wouldn't mind it if the other army gets +1 nerve from melee attacks as its trait.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
From the KS comments just now
@ Rob - there won't be any more hard plastic for the Forces of the Abyss for the time being sorry!
so to me that suggest that the might have a single sprues (probably no more) worth of time at the factory left and they're holding on to it at the moment in case we reach the forces of nature
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Post by: adamsouza
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:From the KS comments just now
@ Rob - there won't be any more hard plastic for the Forces of the Abyss for the time being sorry!
so to me that suggest that the might have a single sprues (probably no more) worth of time at the factory left and they're holding on to it at the moment in case we reach the forces of nature
They have the DS Abyssal Warrior, Moloch, Effrit, Hellhound, and tortured soul to fall back on to fill the Abyssal ranks.
With 10 Days left they've already hit 7 times their goal to get the books printed, maybe they are trying to keep this KS contained to something they can ship on time.
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Post by: scarletsquig
I'm fine with waiting a little longer to get all the Abyssals (large infantry etc. excluded) in hard plastic.
130 infantry should be enough for a decent army in the mean time and I can always paint up some spare Orcs red to use as Abyssal Warriors.
Would be great to see a Mantic KS that only focuses on a single army, and aims to create 6 hard plastic kits. This one is still a bit scattershot in many ways.
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Post by: Theophony
Well I'm in for a £1 for now, too close to Christmas/Black Friday for me to do anything but the basic pledge and later up the pledge manager.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Bump it up a notch Theo then we can get the stretch goals up!
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Post by: adamsouza
Possible OCD on my part, but it bothers me that all the Mega-Starter Army deals depic the full model count, except the forces of the Abyss, which has a model count of 131 and depicts 11.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
adamsouza wrote:Possible OCD on my part, but it bothers me that all the Mega-Starter Army deals depic the full model count, except the forces of the Abyss, which has a model count of 131 and depicts 11.
Also the Orc army has lots of Orclings that aren't depicted.
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Post by: Eilif
Mymearan wrote: Eilif wrote:
KoW armies definitely have some flavor in the form of a general rule or two to give an army a bit of a twist. Enough to differentiate an army, but KoW still has many instances where two races will have units that are near-identical. This really doesn't bother me. I have no problem with an elf on a horse and a human on a horse having relative parity, but some folks cant' stand it.
WHFB writers appeal to this kind of person and seem so obsessed flavor and differentiation that they create near- RPG levels of differentiation between units and then numerous special rules on top of that.
I didn't mean to dig on KoW, I just wanted to be realistic about the contrast in levels of differentiation and "flavor" between the two games. I'd rather have more abstraction and a cleaner playing experience than a crunchy ruleset with too much detail.
Hmm, this makes me less interested in KoW. I'm more interested in fluff and flavor than a super tight ruleset. I'm one of those people who wants each unit to be unique.
It's possible KoW might not be for you.
Mantic has said that there will be alot of new background and fluff in the book, and as said, there are some overarching special rules that give a bit of flavor to each faction, but that's not going to give the kind of detail that WHFB has. When looking for their ideal ruleset, each player has to decide is how much of a faction's fluff must be specifically reflected in the gameplay. You can have RPG-like levels of detail, but it's going to give you a game as rules-heavy and long-playing as WHFB. If you enjoy WHFB, then that's cool, and there's nothing wrong with that.
From my perspective, however, WHFB is an outlier that has made many gamers think that it's normal and ideal for a "Company" level ruleset to have the same amount of detail as a warband skirmish set. Most writers of larger-scope games realize that as the game gets bigger, it naturally should become more abstract in order to facilitate playability. I love having (sometimes writing myself) fluff and background for my minis. That fluff is reflected in the minis, how I paint and convert them, and their backstory. I don't need every nuance of that to be a special rule or additional statistic.
As a semi-relate aside, I wonder if the trend toward less painted minis has -consciously or unconsciously- made folks more reliant on rules to get across the "character" of a unit. When a unit doesn't look the part, do ever-more-detailed rules take on the full burden of representation? We only play with painted minis, so for me and my club the character of the unit is visual as well as rules-based.
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Post by: judgedoug
 Alex C wrote: adamsouza wrote:Possible OCD on my part, but it bothers me that all the Mega-Starter Army deals depic the full model count, except the forces of the Abyss, which has a model count of 131 and depicts 11.
Also the Orc army has lots of Orclings that aren't depicted.
Lots and lots. Like 30 or so.
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Post by: adamsouza
Adam Souza wrote: Any chance of fat little Orcling sized Forces of The Abyss models on the Lower Abyssals and Succibi Sprues ?
Tiny Devils would be cool
Mantic Games wrote: @ Adam - Yep!
@ Marcin - what would make the range for you? I've got at least three more "things" for the Forces of the Abyss in the plan
This news is full of win
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Post by: RobertsMinis
I want imps riding on hellhounds...
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I want Hell Hounds Riding Hover Boards!
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Post by: AlexHolker
adamsouza wrote:Adam Souza wrote: Any chance of fat little Orcling sized Forces of The Abyss models on the Lower Abyssals and Succibi Sprues ?
Tiny Devils would be cool
Mantic Games wrote: @ Adam - Yep!
@ Marcin - what would make the range for you? I've got at least three more "things" for the Forces of the Abyss in the plan
This news is full of win
Hopefully they will only be on the Lower Abyssal sprues.
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Post by: NTRabbit
New Undead unit, Soul Reaver Cavalry aka Vampire Knights, $200k stretch
Even better, a new Elf King on Dragon which is just a flat out add on as of now, no need to unlock it via stretch 
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Well there you go. As predicted, Tyrant of Halpi (Big Dragon kit from Dungeon Saga) just got introduced to proper KoW.
That, coupled with entering a phase of stretch-goals that look to be adding genuine value to the mega-armies makes me feel good about where we are going.
Its a bit pie-in-the-sky, but I would love for each mega army bundle to end up with two more units than they started with, for free, and then maybe the single hero model some already have. That would finally put it at objectively "better" a value than any other offer Mantic has for army bundles.
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Post by: Rainbow Dash
but their succubi aren't naked...why are there no awesome daemonette replacements?
Why hasn't the world given us those?
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Post by: GrimDork
Ok, the undead army is more intriguing now, metal vampire cavalry sound pretty neat. Also, pretty cool of them to add the elf hero in like that. I guess I won't feel bad about having my Tyrant of Halpi w/o elf king option as for the same price he came with a set of tiles and cards. Not sure I want another large dragon though, looks like a wonderful value for others though
And the stretch for the metal undead is only 10k? Neat.
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
I am confused why a number of the stretches (Dwarf Warsmith, Necromancer/Soul Reaver Cavalry) are for products that Mantic already have models for. What happened to filling the gaps in the army lists?
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Post by: Zatsuku
I don't know about the Warsmith and the Necromancer, but I believe the Soul Reavers are discountinued.
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Post by: squall018
Zatsuku wrote:I don't know about the Warsmith and the Necromancer, but I believe the Soul Reavers are discountinued.
They are discontinued. So they are resculpting and retooling and all that stuff. I really wish they would have gone for plastics on the undead calvary. Oh well.
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Post by: NTRabbit
I don't see a Necromancer in the store, but the Warsmith is there.
Put the Ogre Warlock higher up the priority list tbh
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Fang-tastic Friday
Yesterday we shared with you a rather long list of potential new units, but we’re not ignoring the existing armies either – as these little teaser images suggest:
What could they be?
Since we're heading into the weekend and we're more than two thirds of the way to unlocking the campaign, we thought you might want to know what's coming next - take a look at this!
NEW! BONUS: $200,000 - Undead Soul Reaver Cavalry
Vampirism is a terrible curse, exacting as heavy a toll on those afflicted as it does on their victims. With each murder, driven by their biological imperative to feed on the fresh blood of the living, their souls become that much heavier with the weight of their guilt. Soul Reavers are those Vampires who simply lose themselves to the frenzy of the slaughter, always striving for ever greater heights of blood-soaked debauchery. Their armour and heraldry are a sneering mockery of the Knightly Orders of Men, and their only desire is to impale as many corpses as possible on the end of their wicked lances.
Let us know which designs you like the best in the comments.
Why Soul Reavers?
Soul Reavers are a very characterful elite unit in the Undead army. The models we used to make for them have long since been discontinued, the moulds burned out. With the sculptors we now have, we can make better miniatures that befit their unique status in the army, filling in one of the only gaps left in the Undead range.
How good are they in a game?
Expert warriors, supernaturally quick and cursed with an unquenchable blood-lust, these vampiric knights are deadly warriors and one of the most powerful units an Undead general can field.
In the 1st edition rules, a troop of 5 Knights makes 13 attacks at Crushing Strength (2). That means they roll 13 six-sided dice, needing to roll 3’s or more to hit, and often wounding on 2’s or more. Ouch.
Where Soul Reavers really come into play is attacking on the flanks, where they double their attacks, or attacking in the rear, where they treble them (that means 78 attacks from a regiment of 10 Soul Reavers!)
With a Defence of 6 they are incredibly hard to hurt, and the Speed of 8 means they are one of the more mobile Undead units, so you can see why they have a pretty hefty points value attached to them, and are highly valued by Undead generals.
How do I get them?
If we hit this stretch goal, we will sculpt and produce a set of brand new metal elite Undead Soul Reaver knights on plastic horses. These miniatures can be fielded by any Evil or Neutral aligned army, including: Undead, Ogres, Orcs, Goblins, Forces of the Abyss, Forces of Natures, Kingdoms of Men, Abyssal Dwarfs and Twilight Kin.
To get yours, you can add on a set of 5 new Soul Reavers by raising your pledge $25.
In addition, we will include a set of 5 metal vampire Soul Reaver cavalry FREE in the Undead Mega-Starter Army ($100).
You can include this Mega-Starter Army in a pledge of God of War ($150 and Early Bird) or add one on to your existing pledge.
In-focus: Undead Mega-Starter Army
From staples like Skeleton Warriors and Zombie Hordes, to fast-paced Ghouls and ethereal Wraiths, the Undead Mega-Starter army builds on the core of this army with Werewolves for a little extra punch and a Necromancer for those all important magic-casting abilities.
Besides being just a characterful part of the Undead force, Necromancers (and you’ll probably want more than one of them if we’re honest) grant your force some extra abilities.
For example, Dark Surge in it’s current form allow you to move any Shambling unit a certain distance in the shooting face, making for some fantastic counter-attacking situations, or just to help a unit of it’s way to making a vital charge that bit easier. Couple that with Heal and Zap, and you’ve got an excellent supporting character for your hordes of Undead.
The Undead Mega-Starter Army contains 134 miniatures, including a new hero figure, monstrous infantry and a mix of solid units for variety and choice. Once we unlock the Soul Reaver Cavalry, the total value of the Undead Mega-Starter Army will save you in the region of $80 off RRP – quite a chunk of change!
And finally… a new hero emerges!
We've got plenty more for each faction coming soon - including this beauty...
This is the new Elf King on Dragon and there is no stretch goal for it.
We've created a metal rider for the plastic Dungeon Saga Dragon, which comes with a separate plastic neck component that allows you to add a rider in a saddle - in this case, the new Elf King with Lance figure:
You can now add this figure straight on to your pledge for $25 if you want one
Thank you so much for supporting the Kings of War Kickstarter. Your help makes all of this possible. Please keep spreading the word - the more backers we get, the more free stuff we can give you!
[/quote
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Post by: edlowe
yep, but the new one looks full of win
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Post by: Rolt
The new soul reavers look pretty nice, got a bit of a Final Fantasy Judge/Dragoon vibe to them, and only 10k to unlock? Pfft easy.
So guys and gals any guesses what these could be:
This one looks like a siege weapon with a Basilean solider, so possibly a Trebuchet, which is one of the mention units on Mantics blog.
And this ones gotta be a Trent/Forest Elemental, just look at the mushrooms growing up the bark leg and the vine/root rock fist.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Whoever is answering the comments wasn't sure what exactly that dragon is going to be made out of.
I hope Mantic would consider just making a flat out hard plastic modular dragon kit. That would be pretty rocking. Give it options (like they said) for a neck with a saddle to accommodate a mounted rider, maybe some armored pieces...
A nice generic dragon kit could serve a lot of uses across a lot of games!
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Post by: sukura636
highlord tamburlaine wrote:Whoever is answering the comments wasn't sure what exactly that dragon is going to be made out of.
I hope Mantic would consider just making a flat out hard plastic modular dragon kit. That would be pretty rocking. Give it options (like they said) for a neck with a saddle to accommodate a mounted rider, maybe some armored pieces...
A nice generic dragon kit could serve a lot of uses across a lot of games!
Would cost an arm, a leg, and part of your soul to tool.
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Post by: Santtu
When I saw the weapons, I wished from all my heart that it would mean new Soul Reavers. And by golly, did Mantic deliver. In metal even, like models are supposed to be.
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Post by: adamsouza
 sukura636 wrote: highlord tamburlaine wrote:Whoever is answering the comments wasn't sure what exactly that dragon is going to be made out of.
I hope Mantic would consider just making a flat out hard plastic modular dragon kit. That would be pretty rocking. Give it options (like they said) for a neck with a saddle to accommodate a mounted rider, maybe some armored pieces...
A nice generic dragon kit could serve a lot of uses across a lot of games!
Would cost an arm, a leg, and part of your soul to tool.
The Reaper Bones line is already infested with dragons, all you need is the appropriate rider
More importantly, why isn't anyone talking about Batman sneaking into KoW ?
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Post by: GrimDork
He won't be around for too long. Blaine will come around to break his spine eventually 
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
Some form of Tyranid has snook in on the right as well.
Are we assuming that the Knights will be new, unique sculpts whilst the horses will be the old ones from the Revenant cavalry?
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Post by: sukura636
I'm wondering how they would look on the basilean mounts, painted appropriately.
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
Good call, it would help differentiate them from the Revenant's too.
I think add ons such as the elf dragon rider are a step in the right direction for increasing funding, but it is still a bit broad with everybody wanting different units/characters for their armies. I think Scarlet's idea of single army mini kicks is the way to go in the future.
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Post by: sukura636
Or at least, one at a time. Part of me would have wanted to stick with the Abyssals for one more unit.
People do seem to think the KS has a much larger scope that it actually does.
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Post by: agnosto
I'm sorry, I can't resist... The concept art:  The execution: 
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Post by: DaveC
Ah well at least this time it's being done digitally and their digital sculptor usually does a good job getting the concepts and miniature to match.
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Post by: GrimDork
Sad for the Drakkons, it looks like they were trying to go for a proper drake or a non weird-if-you-think-about-it-six-limbed-dragon look. I mean most things don't have wings AND arms AND legs. Unless they're bugs. But then dragons that DO have wings and arms and legs tend to look cooler.
I could like the Drakkons but they have terrible stumpy leg syndrome, the wings are too small, and yeah the faces are a bit derpy. If the legs and wings were better though the faces wouldn't be sooo bad.
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Post by: Riquende
Meh. Gary Morley sculpts I believe (the talent behind old Nagash and the franchise-killers that were the LotR Swan Knights).
I have the middle one somewhere (free 'gift' from Maelstrom's closing down farrago), I might give to someone I dislike for Christmas.
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Post by: Rolt
In all fairness the concept art wasn't very good either, in a horrible sense the sculpts are accurate.
Although with that said said: Y U No sculpt arms mister sculptor?
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Post by: judgedoug
Isn't that the concept for this?
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Post by: RobertsMinis
Don't let facts get in the way...
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Post by: judgedoug
I just assumed as the actual dragon looks almost dead on to the concept art, whereas the Drakons do not.
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Post by: agnosto
judgedoug wrote:I just assumed as the actual dragon looks almost dead on to the concept art, whereas the Drakons do not.
The pose in the art is a spitting image of the prince on dragon model so I understand the confusion because I might be the one confused.
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Post by: Santtu
adamsouza wrote:More importantly, why isn't anyone talking about Batman sneaking into KoW ?
What about Kain next to him? Now that's ironic.
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Post by: jorny
The Drakon concept shows a bit what I mean with Mantic not being strong on concept design.
It is almost as if their designs don't go through enough design iterations. Which would explain the hit and miss situation with some of their designs. If the concept artist manage to hit something right on the mark the first time it turns out fine, otherwise....almost.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
So what's with the new metal cavalry (yuck!) being available to 8 armies? Reminds me of GW's recent everyone-can-buy-this desperate cash grabs.
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Post by: GrimDork
That's how the allies system for KoW has always worked. As long as they match up on the good/evil axis, you can bring several different forces together within your army. You still have to follow the rules so to get an undead character in an orc army, you'd have to take some kind of block of undead troops. I think the 20-man size and up is considered 'steady' or whatever word they use for it and each one of those unlocks both a character and a war machine. Unless they tweaked it for 2.0 to be a little different.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Um... that's how everything in KoW works... so I wouldn't say cash-grab in the least.
Neutral factions can ally or be used by anyone, and Evil or Good can ally with anything else Evil or Good, or any Neutral faction.
They were just pointing out to backers that this isn't JUST an Undead stretch-goal per se.
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Post by: Krinsath
 lord_blackfang wrote:So what's with the new metal cavalry (yuck!) being available to 8 armies? Reminds me of GW's recent everyone-can-buy-this desperate cash grabs.
That's just the Allies rule in KoW written out to my understanding. The game has always been:
Good can ally with Good and Neutral
Evil can ally with Evil and Neutral
Neutral can ally with Neutral and Evil OR Good
This translates to any given unit being able to be fielded by 8 or so armies all the time, and that's in the existing rules (someone correct me if that's wrong). It also allows folks to tailor their list to capture a certain feel they want, or align with their existing model collection.
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Post by: GrimDork
Such as kingdoms of men for samurai nabbing some ogres to use as oni.
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Post by: Azazelx
 Riquende wrote: Azazelx wrote:
That really doesn't help anything, because then you're losing another hero or warmachine. Not a great trade-off.
Another bemoaned 'tactic' was a swarm of mounted standard bearers rushing off to hunt warmachines; so this solution actually addresses two problems instead of one! Are you really using all your hero slots every game? I can't say I've ever approached even half of the heroes I have room for. I can't accept it's a trade-off; it's just a new way of using units that were previously being abused. Hopefully they get do get a 'hero' profile with a few more attacks etc to account for a slight points bump.
You're quoting someone else there. Eilif I think.
Your 0-3 solution doesn't work for me as it's unlike anything else in the 'FO' rules. The proposed solution fits far better, achieves the aim of limiting spam armies, and has no real downsides that I can see, unless for some reason you were spamming heroes (like the aforementioned flag-waving cannon-hunters)
Also remember that (unless it's been said that it's changing, which is possible), a regular unit allows you to take one hero AND one warmachine, not one or the other.
It might be different to everything else in the FO rules, but if it works...
Honestly, I'm happy to stop arguing at this stage. I'd like to see (and play) the Beta rules and play with Beta army lists when they come out. That way I could offer more informed feedback - which hopefully can be taken on board - since at the moment I'm grumbling about something that sounds like it'll be quite a negative without (being able to see) the whole picture. It's just important that the rules committee don't treat non-tourney players as an afterthought - while balanced rules are a must, the polar extreme opposite of GW's attitude isn't that great either, since it's just as cold to a different bunch of players. Automatically Appended Next Post: adamsouza wrote:I would like larger undead, like Undead Ogres.
Something beefier than an Ogre Zombie/Skeleton, like Ogre Revenants
Undead Mammoths!
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Post by: adamsouza
A Mammoth Revenant would make a suitable Undead chariot
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Post by: AlexHolker
That sculpt still looks like crap, though. Instead of sculpting the corner of the mouth like the corner of a mouth, attaching to the upper and lower lip, he sculpted it like they are dimples, attaching well above the upper lip.
As for the undead cavalry, Mantic needs to realise that a vampire's fangs should not be visible when the vampire's mouth is shut. That's why all their previous vampires look like buck-toothed morons.
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Post by: Pacific
Has this update been posted yet?
#14
With this latest goal broken, we now have the funds to produce the Kings of War Campaign Book and the digital platform for logging results.
This new book will present all-new background for a particular events in Mantica’s history, where your actions will dictate the outcome of the battle and the effects forever.
We will include a copy of the campaign book digitally free in every pledge of Living Legends ($50) and up.
The Necromancer Lord Mortibris has ascended using the wisdom of Valandor, torn from the pages of his own Tome. The terrible power unleased has sundered the very fabric of the world, creating a new outlet for the powers of the Abyss, spewing out the creatures of darkness to besmirch the world above. The good peoples of the world must unite in the face of this new threat, or face extinction.
So, where are we off to next? You know it – it’s all about those Undead Soul Reavers.
Click here to read more about the next goal.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war-fantasy-battle-game-2nd-edition/posts/1059638
You can also add on a physical copy of the book, and a character pack of heroes from the main storyline too…
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Post by: lord_blackfang
This is the face a vampire makes when he comes home in the morning and sees the hunchback had taken a dump on his coffin.
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Post by: GrimDork
Not sure if I should discipline...
OR MURDER.
The more I look at the sketch the more I have to agree, damn hunchback!
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Post by: carlos13th
Yeah I dont like the teeth sticking out of the open mouth thing either. Automatically Appended Next Post:  GrimDork wrote:Such as kingdoms of men for samurai nabbing some ogres to use as oni.
I think Ogres are included in the KOM list as standard anyway.
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Post by: Talking Banana
I think Mantic need to realize that their concept artists are the lifeblood of their business, and put the appropriate time and effort into finding (and paying for) the best ones they can find.
This is not a blanket condemnation. They have hired good ones - often, in my opinion - and the resulting minis are the main reason I buy Mantic's products. But as has been said over and over, Mantic's success with concept art has been hit and miss. And not just in terms of the final product not matching the concept art, either. There are some concepts that should never have been taken seriously in the first place, and either revised or replaced by the work of a better artist, rather than used as is.
Somehow a start up with few financial resources like Minion miniatures managed to do the legwork of finding and hiring a concept artist whose work easily ranks at the top of the entire field. Not only equal to the best of what Mantic's concept artists have done, but equal to anything that GW's have done. Frankly, I'd say his concept work frequently surpasses both.
If Minion can afford to do that, it suggests to me that this is either a time or a money issue. If its a time issue, Mantic may simply not have invested the time and effort required to go out and look for the best concept artists, or at least, not to do so rigorously and routinely, just sometimes. If it's a cost-saving issue, I don't get it. Any mini company worth its salt should be prepared to pay what it takes to get the best concept art. Trying to save by going cheap with lesser talent is penny wise, pound foolish. Even the best sculptors can't turn a bad concept drawing into a great figure, after all, particularly if they're being faithful to it.
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Post by: Riquende
I would pay for mounted Batman knights. The other concepts, not so much (not a fan of Soul Reavers in the game currently, they hit crazy hard but they're so expensive pointswise, and if cavalry as a rule is going up, then...)
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Post by: Mymearan
Yeah I have no idea why Mantic has such bad concept art. I agree that they have some good pieces, but almost everything I've seen looks... Amateurish. Especially compared to things like, as you mentioned, Minion.
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Post by: cygnnus
Well, I had to jump in for the rules and extras. Don't need any more models at this point, but I'll happily support some better rules...
Valete,
JohnS
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Post by: XC18
I am not really familiar with Kings of War. Do you guys know where I can find information about army playstyle between each race? that would help to chose a starter set with the kickstarter
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Post by: decker_cky
XC18 wrote:I am not really familiar with Kings of War. Do you guys know where I can find information about army playstyle between each race? that would help to chose a starter set with the kickstarter
The rules are all available online:
http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html
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Post by: adamsouza
KoW Stategy Thread in the Mantic section. On top of the excellent advice contained within there are links to guides for new players on Orcs, Undead, Kindgom of Man, and Abyssal Dwarves. You should check it out.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Cheers for the link adamsouza. Interesting stuff! Automatically Appended Next Post: Mymearan wrote:Yeah I have no idea why Mantic has such bad concept art. I agree that they have some good pieces, but almost everything I've seen looks... Amateurish. Especially compared to things like, as you mentioned, Minion.
Because, (as with most things) new ideas are usually a quick doodle on a bit of paper and the rest is left up to the imagination.
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Post by: Denilsta
Mymearan wrote:Yeah I have no idea why Mantic has such bad concept art. I agree that they have some good pieces, but almost everything I've seen looks... Amateurish. Especially compared to things like, as you mentioned, Minion.
This. I really want to get into the game and almost did in the last KS.....but the miniatures and concept art just keeps putting me off. I keep hearing how good the rules are and the game play video in the KS itself looks good, but I cannot think of a single army where at least half the range does not want me to gauge my eyes out with a wooden spoon. I could use proxies from another range but it does defeat the point of KoW being an affordable mass unit game.
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Post by: Pacific
Haha, well if you have that kind of reaction to the minis then it's probably best to stick clear
I think the appeal of KoW is two-fold: A clean/concise and balanced rule set combined with a cheap miniatures and cheap overall mass-battle army cost.
If you like the miniatures I think its an absolute no-brainer, if you don't I guess it depends on what kind of miniature game you want to play. Fortunately Mantic are very relaxed about people using non-Mantic minis, even in official tournaments - I think one last year was won by someone who didn't have a single Mantic miniature in their army. Personally, I think $50 inc. P&P (which equates very well into £ with current exchange rates) is definitely worth a punt for a new rules set, but YMMV.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
I guess it's a bit like Marmite- you love it or you hate it lol.
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Post by: Azazelx
 Denilsta wrote:Mymearan wrote:Yeah I have no idea why Mantic has such bad concept art. I agree that they have some good pieces, but almost everything I've seen looks... Amateurish. Especially compared to things like, as you mentioned, Minion.
This. I really want to get into the game and almost did in the last KS.....but the miniatures and concept art just keeps putting me off. I keep hearing how good the rules are and the game play video in the KS itself looks good, but I cannot think of a single army where at least half the range does not want me to gauge my eyes out with a wooden spoon. I could use proxies from another range but it does defeat the point of KoW being an affordable mass unit game.
Depends how important the word "official" is to you. I use figures from a wide variety of manufacturers, as do a lot of us who play and post here. The point (to me) of KoW is that it's a good fantasy mass battle ruleset, and I can use almost all of my GW/Warhammer Forge/ AoW/Reaper/Mantic/Perry/Rackham/Foundry/etc/yougettheidea figures in it.
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Post by: cygnnus
Denilsta wrote:Mymearan wrote:Yeah I have no idea why Mantic has such bad concept art. I agree that they have some good pieces, but almost everything I've seen looks... Amateurish. Especially compared to things like, as you mentioned, Minion.
This. I really want to get into the game and almost did in the last KS.....but the miniatures and concept art just keeps putting me off. I keep hearing how good the rules are and the game play video in the KS itself looks good, but I cannot think of a single army where at least half the range does not want me to gauge my eyes out with a wooden spoon. I could use proxies from another range but it does defeat the point of KoW being an affordable mass unit game.
Alternately, regardless of what figures one uses or the ultimate cost of an army, one could be interested in KoW as a *better* (fully realizing that "better" is subjective) set of rules than the bodged together, increasingly big kit-centric, rules that WHFB have become.
I certainly don't plan on buying a new army with Mantic models at this point, since I have several large GW armies, but I'll be buying the rules and. hopefully, getting some of my local gaming group to play them instead of WHFB.
Valete,
JohnS
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Post by: RobertsMinis
The more people playing the game, the more chance Mantic will sell an army in the future and the more rule books they will sell in the future.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Can someone who already plays help me out with something I had mentioned earlier?
Namely, can someone clarify some of the finese of charging in KoW? Its the sole area I feel like the rules don't do justice to, as things like "nudge an enemy unit so that you can be in base contact" doesn't feel very specific.
Likewise, if multiple units charge in, you "share" frontage with both units, but which one gets moved in order to fit both?
If the only way to physically fit your unit in base contact with your target involves pushing several other untis out of the way, do you? Do you just try to get as much base-to-base contact as possible?
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Post by: judgedoug
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Namely, can someone clarify some of the finese of charging in KoW? Its the sole area I feel like the rules don't do justice to, as things like "nudge an enemy unit so that you can be in base contact" doesn't feel very specific. Likewise, if multiple units charge in, you "share" frontage with both units, but which one gets moved in order to fit both? If the only way to physically fit your unit in base contact with your target involves pushing several other untis out of the way, do you? Do you just try to get as much base-to-base contact as possible?
One of the requirements is that " the unit has physically enough space to move into contact with the target. " So if you would like to charge a target that you can see but there's things in front of it and the area between those things is say 60mm and you frontage is 100mm you won't be able to charge them. You cannot charge Target because there's not enough room for You to fit between the two Screens. You'd have to charge a Screen (or not charge at all) But if both of those Screens wish to charge You, they can: "If two or more of your units are able to charge the same enemy unit, they can do so, as long as they can fit. Just issue a simultaneous order to all of the units that are charging the same target. Once contact is made, any units that have charged the same facing of the target will have to share the space available as equally as possible, so shuffle them sideways as shown in Diagram E. If there isn’t enough space for all of the units to fit against the facing of the target they are charging, some of the units will not charge and must be given a different order." Since you can always premeasure in KoW, those Screens can premeasure their charge and make sure they can both fit against You without overlapping other units. If both could not fit (say there's a big rock on each side of You and slightly ahead), only one Screen could charge You.
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Post by: Rolt
Update:
Basilean Heavy Arbalest Warmachine - $205,000
While the prowess of the Paladin orders and the stolid strength of the Men at Arms of Basilea are what win many a war for the Hegemony,
it is the Arbalest that wins many of their battles. Easily capable of decimating a unit of infantry, or blunting the most determined cavalry charge,
this ingenious war engine is the pride of the military academy of Basilea. Operating on a complex tension system, this devastating device
hurls projectiles with such force that almost nothing will stop them.
The Basilean Heavy Arbalest Warmachine can be added to your pledge for $15. One will also be included in the Basilean Mega-Starter Army ($100).
Forces of the Abyss Iffrit - $210,000
All Abyssal creatures are born of the flames, and most have some kind of pyromantic talent, but none are the equal of the Iffrits. Born in and moulded
by the deepest and hottest furnace flames of the infernal pit, Iffrits are constantly suffused in flickering, demonic flames. They often transport themselves forwards on a
column of fire, and shoot massive and deadly fireballs from their clawed fists which burn hot enough to reduce even a fully armoured warrior to mere dust and
ashes in an eyeblink. Iffrits are thankfully rare, but where they do appear, doom will surely follow for all those who face them.
The Abyssal Iffrit can be added to your pledge for $8. One Iffrit It will also be included in the Forces of the Abyss Mega-Starter Army ($100).
Seems like both of these could be hit by tomorrow with any luck.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
So a 100mm frontage essentially needs to fit flush if it is going to legally charge another unit with 100mm frontage?
In theory doesn't this mean even the smallest of screening units utterly protects something behind it if it even denies you 1mm worth of frontage?
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Post by: Daedleh
No, you don't need to fit flush but you do need to move into contact with the target unit. If you can't fit through the screening units' gaps (60mm in judgedougs example) then you can't charge.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Ok, so my question then becomes, "what constitutes contact"? How much of the base needs to fit?
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Post by: GrimDork
But if there was a single screening unit covering say half of the target, but you had enough range/ room to get around it, that works?
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Post by: Daedleh
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Ok, so my question then becomes, "what constitutes contact"? How much of the base needs to fit?
1mm+, though it's very rare for people to try and claim something like that (it's something that I want clarified for the next edition) - usually it's a good 10mm or so that people want. I personally recommend a house rule of 10mm+ contact.
GrimDork wrote:But if there was a single screening unit covering say half of the target, but you had enough range/ room to get around it, that works?
Yes.
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Post by: jorny
 Rolt wrote:Update:
Basilean Heavy Arbalest Warmachine - $205,000
While the prowess of the Paladin orders and the stolid strength of the Men at Arms of Basilea are what win many a war for the Hegemony,
it is the Arbalest that wins many of their battles. Easily capable of decimating a unit of infantry, or blunting the most determined cavalry charge,
this ingenious war engine is the pride of the military academy of Basilea. Operating on a complex tension system, this devastating device
hurls projectiles with such force that almost nothing will stop them.
The Basilean Heavy Arbalest Warmachine can be added to your pledge for $15. One will also be included in the Basilean Mega-Starter Army ($100).
This is pretty much what I mean that Mantic have a problem with their concepts. I fear that this model will not look good even if it follows the concept art fully. The concept art isnt' good enough. The perspective is weird (why isn't that projectile straight? And why isn't the bow 90 degrees to the carriage?) and the proportiona of the arbalest makes it looks will look like a toy instead of a mean war machine. And once again, the stupid vizors on the basilean helmets. Why make a vizor that blocks your vision when it doesn't even protects your face?
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Post by: judgedoug
GrimDork wrote:But if there was a single screening unit covering say half of the target, but you had enough range/ room to get around it, that works?
So something like this after you charge would look like this Since you need LOS to charge someone, then a better screen would be You can't even see Target, so your only charge option would be the Screen. so, let's set up this situation with units. You = heavy knight cavalry badasses Screen = cheap troop of lameo infantry armed with flyswatters Target = heavy elite infantry with great weapons and magic item giving +1 to hit or some other uber junk easy tactics in this case might be You are now in a position where, do you charge the Screen? You'll probably kill them, leaving you open to a countercharge next turn by Target elite uber dudes. Or do you not charge, and then next turn either a) Screen charges you, or b) Screen executes an Advance and turns 90 and walks out of the way of Target, then Target charges You. See? This brings us into other sweet sidestep tactics, such as Since You can't fit inbetween Screens to hit juicy Target, you either charge a Screen, leave them be, etc. But if you don't then your enemy can Sidestep a Screen on his turn (half move, strafing left or right), opening the gap so the he declares simultaneous charge with Target uber elites and the non-sidestepping Screen against You. And if your opponent anticipates you charging a Screen, he can have his Screens positioned at slight 30-45 degree angles, so if you charge a Screen and don't defeat it, the other Screen can get a flank charge; or if you Charge a Screen and do defeat it, you'll use your free movement to rotate in place to make sure your frontage is facing the Screen and Target, but then You will get double charged next turn. (IE, how to defend against and defeat an all-cav army)
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Post by: GrimDork
Sweet, thanks for that You might consider a quick copy-paste into Mr. Souzas thread in the mantic forums, stuff like that has to be helpful to us new players!
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Post by: Nostromodamus
What?
Smart positional play and good interaction between units can defeat an uber point sink unit of doom?
Stop the madness!
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Post by: judgedoug
Over 50% of Kings of War is about maneuvering. Blindly sending your units forward and attempting to rely on magic or monsters will get you murdered post-haste. For example, since monsters are on square bases (usually 50x50), it actually makes it easier to get flank charges on them versus trying to flank a normal wide-frontage/shallow-depth unit. Oh, big mean Giant, eh? Well, even a dinky old unit can wreck a monster's day by slamming him in the flank.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Exactly my point.
Makes a refreshing change from WFB's concept of "sink enough points into a thing and win" units.
Much more like Warmaster in that regard.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Well, like the game I watched earlier this week, it is REALLY obvious to a new player that this game is emphasized in the maneuver/order phase, and I LOVE that as it should be what tactical war-gaming needs to be about.
I feel like Warmahordes is another game of inches/measurement, but that game just ends up feeling so "super serious" to me that I personally just cannot enjoy it (despite being invested in four armies with 100pts+ of each)
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Post by: adamsouza
I'm a big fan of the tactical manuvering in KoW. The only other game I played where manuvering felt this important was BattleFleet Gothic.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
I haven't gotten to play it yet, but i'm cautiously hoping Planetfall from Spartan has a similar feel. I know flanking and arcs do play a big part in it.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
A metal siege engine? That's a good idea...for a masochist.
And leave the Basilean visors alone! They worked really hard to look distinctive, and that's all they got. Unless you count the silly feather.
But really, how can you not love a block of smug infantry that all say "deal with it"?
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Post by: .Mikes.
Alex C wrote:
Makes a refreshing change from WFB's concept of "sink enough points into a thing and win" units.
As a Dwarf player I love it when people sink tonnes of points into single units.
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Post by: Eilif
Denilsta wrote:
This. I really want to get into the game and almost did in the last KS.....but the miniatures and concept art just keeps putting me off. I keep hearing how good the rules are and the game play video in the KS itself looks good, but I cannot think of a single army where at least half the range does not want me to gauge my eyes out with a wooden spoon. I could use proxies from another range but it does defeat the point of KoW being an affordable mass unit game.
With respect, I think this exactly the wrong perspective to bring to a game like KoW. If you're dealing with a game like Warmachine where there is a set tournament scene that requires same-brand minis, then you have to like the whole package. If you only game at a GW store, then you should probably stick with 40k rules and minis.
However, with a game like KoW, it's best to approach the minis and rules as separate entities, each to be judged on their own merit. AFAIK, most Mantic tourneys don't require Mantic armies except to qualify for best painted. If you like the rules, use them, if you like the figs use them. If you like the rules but not figs, use different figs. If you like figs, but not rules, then find other rules. I really like the rules, but the Mantic faction I like best is in a material I don't. No matter, I use the game with different figs, and really enjoy it and if the faction gets made in hard plastic, I'll buy them then. In the mean time I'm having a ball with a brilliantly written ruleset and figures of my choosing.
Obviously there's alot to be said for the figs you play with to match the pictures in the fluff, but I think many gamers would have more satisfying experiences if they stopped limiting their own choices and were open to the idea of separately choosing the minis and rules that they found most appealing. From my perspective as someone with less gaming time than I'd like, life's too short to game with figures, rules or people that you don't like.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Oh, my, the angles on that drawing are really bad.
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Post by: Denilsta
Eilif wrote: Denilsta wrote:
This. I really want to get into the game and almost did in the last KS.....but the miniatures and concept art just keeps putting me off. I keep hearing how good the rules are and the game play video in the KS itself looks good, but I cannot think of a single army where at least half the range does not want me to gauge my eyes out with a wooden spoon. I could use proxies from another range but it does defeat the point of KoW being an affordable mass unit game.
With respect, I think this exactly the wrong perspective to bring to a game like KoW. If you're dealing with a game like Warmachine where there is a set tournament scene that requires same-brand minis, then you have to like the whole package. If you only game at a GW store, then you should probably stick with 40k rules and minis.
However, with a game like KoW, it's best to approach the minis and rules as separate entities, each to be judged on their own merit. AFAIK, most Mantic tourneys don't require Mantic armies except to qualify for best painted. If you like the rules, use them, if you like the figs use them. If you like the rules but not figs, use different figs. If you like figs, but not rules, then find other rules. I really like the rules, but the Mantic faction I like best is in a material I don't. No matter, I use the game with different figs, and really enjoy it and if the faction gets made in hard plastic, I'll buy them then. In the mean time I'm having a ball with a brilliantly written ruleset and figures of my choosing.
Obviously there's alot to be said for the figs you play with to match the pictures in the fluff, but I think many gamers would have more satisfying experiences if they stopped limiting their own choices and were open to the idea of separately choosing the minis and rules that they found most appealing. From my perspective as someone with less gaming time than I'd like, life's too short to game with figures, rules or people that you don't like.
I completely agree, but I am a more unique situation, I started collecting GW pre slotted but stopped and sold all of my huge armies when my first child came along 8 years ago (plus was very disillusioned with GW). I'm more of a painter collector these days but I do miss the play of large battles, so I am effectively starting from scratch.
To start a whole new GW army to uses as better looking KoW proxies is just to expensive and as much as I want to I could never use figures like the KoW Elven Dragon riders, goblin Gerbil riders or the panther riders that look like the victims of a mad taxidermist. There are some good looking models in their ranges but they are so damn inconsistent. I might just pledge for the rule book and see how it goes from there. There is also a chance Mantic may update their range in future...
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Post by: Azazelx
If the Mantic models do little or nothing for you overall (and that's understandable) I'd probably look into a second-hand WHFB army. - unless you were interested in Undead, which are Mantic's strongest range.
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Post by: Riquende
Or, if you wanted to use Kingdoms of Men - or use the loose allies system to have a large KoM contingent - then the world('s recent glut of plastic historicals) is/are your oyster.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
Don't forget the world of excellent metal historical models, which aren't as expensive as some people may think.
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Post by: Zond
I'm half tempted to get the rules and go 15mm for cheap huge battles. Still undecided on the rules though. :-P
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Zond wrote:I'm half tempted to get the rules and go 15mm for cheap huge battles. Still undecided on the rules though. :-P
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Post by: RobertsMinis
Zond wrote:I'm half tempted to get the rules and go 15mm for cheap huge battles. Still undecided on the rules though. :-P
I have fairly limited experience, but the bigger the battle the better KOW plays. I think there are some people playing it at 15mm, they changed inches into cms in the rules.
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Post by: lord marcus
two points:
the visors do not make sense from a protective standpoint. this is fantasy however, and things don't have to make sense.
For those talking about smaller scales, I have several 6mm kings of war armies.
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Post by: Alpharius
Where are you sourcing your 6mm figs from?
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Post by: lord marcus
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Post by: Aesop the God Awful
Alex C wrote:Zond wrote:I'm half tempted to get the rules and go 15mm for cheap huge battles. Still undecided on the rules though. :-P
Try " KoW in 28mm? Too pricey, time-consuming and space inefficient."
Microworld is great. I especially like their Dark Elves
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Post by: Theophony
 lord marcus wrote:two points:
the visors do not make sense from a protective standpoint. this is fantasy however, and things don't have to make sense.
For those talking about smaller scales, I have several 6mm kings of war armies.
The metal bikini chicks of the world would argue that protection is in the eye of the wearer
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Post by: Fenriswulf
After the last KoW kickstarter, I was left feeling rather annoyed with how the miniatures turned out, so I can definitely understand how you feel in regards to using them for your forces.
But as everyone else has said, there are a plethora of different companies out there offering armies that go for a lot cheaper than GW. Hell, even if you shop around you can buy a lot of GW LotR stuff for really low prices now GW seems set to finish up with it once the Hobbit is all done and dusted. I bought 25 full LotR goblin sprues for $50 off ebay, which is enough to make a hell of a lot of units of goblin rabble, sharpsticks and spitters. Looking elsewhere I found that 1/72 plastic orc wargs are perfect as cheap fleabag riders. Everything else can be improvised, and very cheaply. D&D pre-painted miniatures can help you out with larger stuff if you want to be thematic about it too.
I also have put together a Twilight Kin list using GW Mordor and Isengard units, which will be a combined force under Sauron as either an Abyssal Fiend, or Death Stalker Simulacre. Then there's something else I am working on which uses the Elves (both Rivendell and Lothlorien) as a KoM force, with potential additional troops that uses Rohan, Easterling and Harad miniatures, and in a setting that's not LotR. And as an added bonus they could also be used to proxy Elves and Twilight Kin as well if I so desire.
KoM is so flexible you could use miniatures from tons of manufacturers to represent Dark Ages Celts and Saxons, Romans, Samurai, Middle Ages factions from pretty much anywhere, all the way into the Renaissance with Pike and Shot units. And if their units aren't what you like, choose another faction and have your units 'count as' something you do like.
This is the thing I love about KoM in comparison to Warhammer. Warhammer is fairly strict, with you wanting to have units which at least look somewhat like what you want to be using them as. Plus special rules and the like make them have a very distinct flavour to them. KoW on the other hand is a lot wider in scope, and with a ton of choices, allowing you to choose exactly what force you want to field, and how they look when you do. Fight stoneage clubweilding cavemen with wooly mammoths and other prehistoric creatures as stand in Orcs one game, and the next it's Renaissance era dudes aiming a musket at you while blocks of impenetrable pikes stand in your way.
Once Mantic has got it into their head that quality will beat quantity every single time (or at least quality that's good enough to stand next to other suppliers like Perry in terms of detail and design, despite them not being everyone's cup of tea), then they're really going to take off. Get some awesome solid designs down of a multitude of fantasy units and people are going to come flocking. Unfortunately, they still seem to be stuck with the same bad design ideas as before, and this will hinder their progress. I still own a ton of their Undead, and have plans for that too, it's just going to take time for them to catch up with some of the other players out there.
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Post by: Eilif
Denilsta wrote:
I completely agree, but I am a more unique situation, I started collecting GW pre slotted but stopped and sold all of my huge armies when my first child came along 8 years ago (plus was very disillusioned with GW). I'm more of a painter collector these days but I do miss the play of large battles, so I am effectively starting from scratch.
To start a whole new GW army to uses as better looking KoW proxies is just to expensive and as much as I want to I could never use figures like the KoW Elven Dragon riders, goblin Gerbil riders or the panther riders that look like the victims of a mad taxidermist. There are some good looking models in their ranges but they are so damn inconsistent. I might just pledge for the rule book and see how it goes from there. There is also a chance Mantic may update their range in future...
I see, that does put you in a tough situation. Building any KoW or WHFB sized army is a quite big proposition no matter which brand of minis you use. There are alot of other manufactures of fantasy miniatures out there, but some are a bit obscure. Let me know what kind of army you'd like to see and I'll see what I can find for you.
Azazelx wrote:If the Mantic models do little or nothing for you overall (and that's understandable) I'd probably look into a second-hand WHFB army. - unless you were interested in Undead, which are Mantic's strongest range.
This is actually a great suggestion. I see second hand WHFB armies at good bargains quite regularly.
Riquende wrote:Or, if you wanted to use Kingdoms of Men - or use the loose allies system to have a large KoM contingent - then the world('s recent glut of plastic historicals) is/are your oyster.
RobertsMinis wrote:Don't forget the world of excellent metal historical models, which aren't as expensive as some people may think.
Two other great suggestions. Many historical metals are less than $2 each, and many can be $1 or less.. Most historical plastics are in the $0.60 to 1 buck range each.
Zond wrote:I'm half tempted to get the rules and go 15mm for cheap huge battles. Still undecided on the rules though. :-P
I think that -especially for older gamers- if you showed the KoW rules without the mention of base size or measurements, they'd assume that it is an element-based system designed for 6-15mm miniatures. KoW reads to me as a system with the kind of abstractions usually seen in smaller scaled games that has been scaled up to 28mm. Not a bad thing, in my book.
RobertsMinis wrote:
I have fairly limited experience, but the bigger the battle the better KOW plays. I think there are some people playing it at 15mm, they changed inches into cms in the rules.
That's my experience as well. You can have fun small battles, but the system really begins humming around 1200 points and above as you get more units on the board.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
The Fires of the Abyss! We’ve approached that magical time of the campaign – just 7 days remain until the end. At midnight 1st December the campaign comes to a halt. It’s set to be an exciting end to the campaign – especially as we’ll have a few surprises this week along the way to make it fun and enjoyable as we knock over stretch goal after stretch goal And we've started the week in style, funding the sculpting and production of the Basilean Heavy Arbalest, which we’ve now included free in the Basilean Mega-Starter Army. You can also add on additional Heavy Arbalests for $15.  Next up we’re on to the Abyssal Iffrit magic-caster for the Forces of the Abyss.  And then? Well, we’re going to take a walk on the wildside… NEW! BONUS: $220,000 – Forest Shamblers When the Elves of the Glades go to war, even the forests themselves animate. These ogre-sized creatures are lumbering and implacable, able to crush smaller opponents with a single blow. Often their slowness is mistaken for stupidity by the lesser races, but this could not be further from the truth – Shamblers think at the same pace as the trees around them – and when you are a walking tree, speed is not of the essence.  Excitingly, the Forest Shamblers not only fit into the Elf Force List, they’re also the first unit for the Forces of Nature army – a hint of things to come before the end perhaps? If we hit this stretch goal, we will sculpt and produce a set of Forest Shamblers – which can be fielded by any Good or Neutral aligned army, including the Elves and the Forces of Nature. With this goal broken, we will include a set of metal 3 Forest Shamblers in the Elf Mega-Starter Army ($100). You can include this Mega-Starter Army in a pledge of God of War ($150) and Early Bird) or add one on to your existing pledges. You can also add on a set of the Forest Shamblers for $15 to your pledge.  Want more for the Forces of Nature? Please help us spread the word! And finally… Ronnie has gotten a busier than usual week ahead of him as he will be a special guest on Forja y Desven TV tomorrow night and Chilling Wargamers on Wednesday evening. Not only that but he’s doing a live chat on the Mantic Facebook page tomorrow at 7:00pm GMT. And after all that, he’s then travelling to Ireland to film the Weekender for Beasts of War. So stay tuned and keep an eye out for Mr Renton spilling the beans on all things Kings of War (and probably some DreadBall as well…)
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Post by: RobertsMinis
Those Forest Shamblers seem excellent value. I'm in for a couple.
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Post by: GrimDork
5 dollars for a metal ogre-sized model? Yeah that's not bad. A basic ogre regiment for $15 isn't bad at all. The elf army is really starting to get bulky with the extra character and now another blog of ogre quality troops, and they were already leading or close to leading the pack at points for money.
I guess soul reavers being really high points cost helps out the undead quite a bit too.
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Post by: SilverMK2
Hoping for some larger abyssals to get added
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Post by: Bolognesus
Isn't it a troop sized unit at fifteen bucks though? Three models is nice, six would be insane.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
 Bolognesus wrote:Isn't it a troop sized unit at fifteen bucks though? Three models is nice, six would be insane.
It is 15 for 3... Or in my case 30 for 6 and potentially 60 for 12!
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Post by: edlowe
RobertsMinis wrote: Bolognesus wrote:Isn't it a troop sized unit at fifteen bucks though? Three models is nice, six would be insane.
It is 15 for 3... Or in my case 30 for 6 and potentially 60 for 12!
if They look good come the survey, I can see my self getting a few sets 60 for 12 does sound temping
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Post by: adamsouza
Forest Fires
Just an update to let you know that we've just got the Abyssal Iffrit funded and locked in!!
With this stretch goal broken, we’ve now included the Abyssal Iffrit free in every Forces of the Abyss Mega-Starter Army. You can add on these on to your pledge for $100, or choose it as your choice of Mega-Starter Army as part of a God of War pledge.
You can also add on the Abyssal Iffrit with alternate options for $8.
Next up: BONUS $220,000 - Forest Shamblers!
When the Elves of the Glades go to war, even the forests themselves animate. These ogre-sized creatures are lumbering and implacable, able to crush smaller opponents with a single blow. Often their slowness is mistaken for stupidity by the lesser races, but this could not be further from the truth – Shamblers think at the same pace as the trees around them – and when you are a walking tree, speed is not of the essence.
Quick amendment to the last update – we did say the Forest Shamblers can be featured in Good and Neutral armies.
Well, the Forest Shamblers are part of the Elf (Good aligned) and Forces of Nature army, which are Neutral aligned, meaning that even Evil armies can take them as well. That means they’ll fight for anyone of the armies on offer here!
When we break this goal, we will include a set of metal 3 Forest Shamblers in the Elf Mega-Starter Army ($100). You can include this Mega-Starter Army in a pledge of God of War ($150) and Early Bird) or add one on to your existing pledges.
You can also add on a set of the Forest Shamblers for $15 to your pledge.
That’s it for now – but with only 6 days of the campaign left to go, don’t be surprised to find a surprise update winging its way to you later today
Let us know in the comments what you want to see next the most. Until then, onwards!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Mantic confirmed on the KS thread that they have Molochs and 1 other item planned for additions to Abyss before the end of the KS, and it is not Hellhounds
Also Ogres will be getting something new, that is not Ogre Calvary
"we won't be doing any Ogre Cavalry, too big and too expensive sorry"
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Post by: Eilif
Oooh.
I missed the fact that the shamblers are metal. That's very tempting. I don't play elves in KoW, but I've got elves and woodland creature warbands for Song of Blades and Heroes and they would be a nice addition.
Should we assume they will all be the same sculpt?
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Post by: RobertsMinis
Eilif wrote:Oooh.
I missed the fact that the shamblers are metal. That's very tempting. I don't play elves in KoW, but I've got elves and woodland creature warbands for Song of Blades and Heroes and they would be a nice addition.
Should we assume they will all be the same sculpt?
I think it is 3 different sculpts.
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Post by: NTRabbit
Am I the only one hoping that the shamblers are taller than Ogre sized?
Walking trees gotta be big yo
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Post by: Eilif
RobertsMinis wrote: Eilif wrote:Oooh.
I missed the fact that the shamblers are metal. That's very tempting. I don't play elves in KoW, but I've got elves and woodland creature warbands for Song of Blades and Heroes and they would be a nice addition.
Should we assume they will all be the same sculpt?
I think it is 3 different sculpts.
Thanks!
I dug through the comments and apparently they've confirmed '3 Variants". Even if variants just meant alternate arms and/or heads, that'd be enough for me.
The tree people just moved up my list!
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Post by: Rolt
Update: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war-fantasy-battle-game-2nd-edition/posts/1063841
Basilean High Paladin on Dragon! - $25 add-on
Ogre Warlock - $8 add-on
An Ogre Warlock is also being added for free to all Ogre Mega-Starter Army ($100) deals/pledges, no stretch goal for this either which is cool.
Seems like Mantic are really trying to build up momentum for the last 6 days, obviously something big is planned, say like a certain Nature Army.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Quite like the Ogre Warlock model. Looks big and angry lol.
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Post by: primalexile
I really hope for add on Wednesday they offer resin alternatives.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
There might not be a lot of spare capacity for resin casting at the moment due to various Kickstarters (including DS)... But I am only speculating.
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Post by: jorny
What madness is this? A Basilean concept that actually looks good! What will happen next? Cats chasing dogs? Rain falling from the ground to the sky?
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Post by: JoshInJapan
I really hope they finally release Orc Sniffs...
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I've updated the army values,
thanks to those who posted todays updates
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Post by: RobertsMinis
If my memory serves me correctly, Orc Sniffs were sculpted... I don't know whether they were 3 Ups or for metal hybrid or just metal.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Sounds like we'll be seeing those Ogre Braves before all is said and done as well.
Who knows what wonders and horrors an Add On Wednesday will bring...
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Post by: judgedoug
RobertsMinis wrote:
If my memory serves me correctly, Orc Sniffs were sculpted... I don't know whether they were 3 Ups or for metal hybrid or just metal.
http://manticforum.com/forum/kings-of-war/orcs/3219-plastic-orc-archers-sniffs-already-sculpted
Sculpted to be plastic. Never released.
I wonder if they commissioned a small-size Renedra sprue of the Sniff bits to be pared with the pre-existing Orc models.
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Post by: JoshInJapan
I would be perfectly happy if they simply produced those models. I would just as satisfied with an accessory sprue to convert some of the oh-so-many orcs I have yet to paint from the first kickstarter.
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Post by: NTRabbit
Worth mentioning that the Valandor & Ba'al character pack, who originated from the Dungeon Saga campaign, just got new concept art after public consultation in the DS updates which doesn't seem to have filtered into the KoW page yet
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Post by: GrimDork
Paladin looks good, though he looks a bit like he-man in armor. A bit WoW-ish, really buff. But wait he's an angel or something right? Part angel? I remember angel in there some where.
Demon is promising, I'll need to see a render before I get excited, but I don't dislike the concept. Looks like a demon, there are rotting parts to imply undead (which he is, undead demon). I think the face is *almost* there. Something about it says general or Lt, or top brute, he doesn't quite have mastermind/evil overlord just yet. It's close. Maybe enough. Wonder if either or both will be getting weapons.
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Post by: NTRabbit
Pretty sure Valandor and Ba'al are the two halves of one Celestian, angel and demon. Valandor finally won and killed Ba'al, but he was raised from the dead by Mortibris, who I think has tenuous control of him at best.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Are they plastic? And will Valandor be tall enough to count as a not-Emperor?
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Post by: RobertsMinis
They are going to be board game plastic as they are just the DS models being reused. Automatically Appended Next Post: And I'd be pretty happy if the models come out as good as the art. That undead demon just looks right.
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Post by: SeanDrake
Hi unable to link on my mobile but shamblers funded and next goal is an orc war drum which looks kinda cool.
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Post by: ulgurstasta
Orc War Drum
Man the concept art doesn't match the current design at all, do mantic Orcs even have hair?
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Ba'al looks like a Gargoyle who's had a run-in with an angry mason.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
These Orcs don't have hair either....
They're wearing Maw Beast pelts.
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Post by: Aesop the God Awful
Those look pretty damn dreadful.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Yeah they look like bad 1980's GW designs. They can do it a lot better than this.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
I think they look like what an Orc Shaman in Mantica would look like. I upped my pledge to get a couple.
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Post by: squall018
I think they look pretty good myself. That being said, I know better than to pledge on concept art alone, so I will be waiting to see if they are worth it.
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Post by: Alpharius
The overall look and feel here has been pretty disappointing.
I can only hope that Mantic takes some time after this campaign to really reassess things and comes back with a better plan and system in regards to an overall design aesthetic and dedicated quality control in all phases.
Maybe a 'disappointing' KS here will 'help' them in that?
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Post by: ulgurstasta
Alex C wrote:These Orcs don't have hair either....
They're wearing Maw Beast pelts.
Ha! I didn't see the orcs faces inside the mawbeasts maw
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Post by: Nostromodamus
 Alpharius wrote:The overall look and feel here has been pretty disappointing.
I can only hope that Mantic takes some time after this campaign to really reassess things and comes back with a better plan and system in regards to an overall design aesthetic and dedicated quality control in all phases.
Maybe a 'disappointing' KS here will 'help' them in that?
Dunno what you're on about Alph, I'm loving the project.
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Post by: Alpharius
Alex C wrote: Alpharius wrote:The overall look and feel here has been pretty disappointing.
I can only hope that Mantic takes some time after this campaign to really reassess things and comes back with a better plan and system in regards to an overall design aesthetic and dedicated quality control in all phases.
Maybe a 'disappointing' KS here will 'help' them in that?
Dunno what you're on about Alph, I'm loving the project.
I guess we'll just have to agree that opinions differ!
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Post by: adamsouza
It's at nearly 10 times it funding goal with 5 days remaining, so I can't see Mantic being very dissapointed.
Ronnie did an interview 2 weeks before the KS where he said Mantic wasn't expecting, or pushing, for this KS to be big. They wanted to fund the Book + Plastic Abyssals with anything after that being gravy.
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Post by: Theophony
I just have a feeling that the "stretch goals" for this are things they already have done and just waiting a good release time. If the funding doesn't jump I'm sure we will see something along the lines of "we were so excited about how well the KS went that we decided to also offer these other items during the pledge manager". My pledge is staying a 1, until I see the Final final pledge manager and see some of these sculpts show up.
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Post by: Hulksmash
Yeah, I'm going to go in for $1. Just so I can grab a large number of the plastic daemon infantry if it turns out well.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
 Theophony wrote:I just have a feeling that the "stretch goals" for this are things they already have done and just waiting a good release time. If the funding doesn't jump I'm sure we will see something along the lines of "we were so excited about how well the KS went that we decided to also offer these other items during the pledge manager". My pledge is staying a 1, until I see the Final final pledge manager and see some of these sculpts show up.
So pretty much like any Mantic KS then?
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Post by: Bioptic
They overfunded the first KoW Kickstarter so much that they ended up filling out a big chunk of their entire line just from that (albeit making a loss overall).
All I see this doing is plugging some gaps in the existing line and creating a new army, possibly a second if things go really well. A pretty major success by any metric - unless you don't like the models resulting of course!
On a personal level, I indeed feel that Mantic could do with investing in an actual overall art direction, as currently they feel a bit too much at the mercy of individual sculptors and concept artists. I actually quite like parts of this approach when it results in truly strange and different stuff, but since Mantic's properties tend towards the generic it can end up feeling unfocused instead.
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Post by: Pacific
 Fenriswulf wrote:Yeah they look like bad 1980's GW designs. They can do it a lot better than this.
For those of who love the 80's GW designs, I think that is definitely a bonus.
Absolutely love the style of them!
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Post by: Da Boss
I look at the designs, and I think "This looks cool! It looks like a bargain!"
And then I scroll through the armies, and look at the Orc army (because I love Orcs) and see the Trolls, and remember some other concepts that looked really good, and how they turned out, and decide to wait.
If Tre Manor can have sculpts getting finished during the campaign, I dunno, maybe it just raises my expectations of being shown what I'm getting.
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Post by: judgedoug
 Da Boss wrote:I look at the designs, and I think "This looks cool! It looks like a bargain!"
And then I scroll through the armies, and look at the Orc army (because I love Orcs) and see the Trolls, and remember some other concepts that looked really good, and how they turned out, and decide to wait.
If Tre Manor can have sculpts getting finished during the campaign, I dunno, maybe it just raises my expectations of being shown what I'm getting.
You can do what I did and have an Orc army made up of Mantic Orc plastics (being one of my favorite design aesthetics for orcs) and Mantic pvc Gore Riders (because they are actually one of the only good pvc kits) mixed with Mierce monsters (Wyvern, Trolls).
That way you don't have the crap models but the army still looks awesome.
edit: amusingly enough a couple of my Orc heroes are Tre Manor sculpts for Reaper.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Add-on wednesday delivers...
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Post by: Da Boss
Yeah, but I will wait for retail so I can buy the ones I know look good. I'd be interested in pledging for Abyssals, but I will not pledge for mantic models with just a render because they've proven to be unreliable in the past.
I am also interested in the Orcs, but much of that army is restic, and restic stinks. The other one I like is the Ogres, which is all restic or their apparently quite poor goblins. I keep see-sawing. If I could be confident about the abyssals I would go for it, but I think it's not worth the risk of a disappointment.
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
Not really, all of the Orc infantry is proper plastic, only the trolls/Gore riders and chariots are restic. In my experience these models are great in the material.
Disappointed that the Abyssal Dwarf Great Winged Abyssal is the same dragon sculpt with an additional metal head.
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
Alex C wrote: Theophony wrote:I just have a feeling that the "stretch goals" for this are things they already have done and just waiting a good release time. If the funding doesn't jump I'm sure we will see something along the lines of "we were so excited about how well the KS went that we decided to also offer these other items during the pledge manager". My pledge is staying a 1, until I see the Final final pledge manager and see some of these sculpts show up.
So pretty much like any Mantic KS then?
Or any Kickstarter that has a chance of actually hitting schedule.
The Auld Grump - we only added 300 things with stretch goals, what do you mean that it is going to take longer than planned?
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Post by: agnosto
I like some of this but will wait to see retail execution before plunking any money down. Mantic has taught me a painful lesson that their final product doesn't always match the concepts and prices at MM are sometimes cheaper than KS prices anyway (1/2 price battlezones anyone?).
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Post by: judgedoug
Da Boss wrote:I am also interested in the Orcs, but much of that army is restic, and restic stinks.
Orc Ax and Greatax are hard plastic. (interchangeable bodies, actually). Orc Morax are the plastic sprues plus metal left arms.
Gore Riders are pvc but are surprisingly good. They were my first actual pvc models and I was quite impressed and thought it was a reasonable material. (It was all downhill from there, though; but the Gore Riders are good. I own 30 of them)
I dislike the troll aesthetic personally, so that's why I use Mierce trolls.
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
They are only half price if the MM servers allow you to checkout
@Judgedoug there are no Morax in the Ork army deals, it is the all plastic Ax and Greatax that are included. All together more than 75% of the big army deal is in hard plastic.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I just got some Mantic trolls for ten bucks with shipping. We'll see how they stack up. Never minded the aesthetic of them. Just big dumb trolls.
HOWEVER- I had never thought of getting some Mierce ones to use. Duh. Because I don't have enough Darklands stuff already, right?
Guess it's back to ebay to hunt up some cheap trolls...
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Post by: Azazelx
 jorny wrote:A Basilean concept that actually looks good! What will happen next? Cats chasing dogs?
My old cat did this whenever dogs got a bit too close. She was a tough one. Still, it takes more than cats chasing dogs to see a Basilean concept make it all the way to great miniatures!
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Sorely tempted to get the scenery stuff added to my pledge...
Update #20
It's back... Add-on Wednesday is here!
It’s big, it’s bad and it’s back. Yes it’s Add-on Wednesday!
Just to recap, Add-on Wednesday is that special time of the week where we release a number of cool add-ons to enhance your experience. Whether it’s etched army dice or a hard plastic gaming table, each is entirely optional but gives you more value and more bang for your buck.
So what do we have on offer today? Well let’s find out…
The first is pretty self-explanatory - an extra copy of the 2nd Edition Rulebook, resplendent in hardback form with all the background, rules, army list and hobby you need to play. That means if you have friends who want a copy they could piggyback on your pledge and you could share the postage.
NEW! Kings of War 2nd Edition Hardback Rulebook
NEW! Fantasy Terrain
Buildings and scenery break up the battlefield, obscuring line of sight and influencing the strategy you’ll need to best crush your opponent. Our friends over at 4Grounds have a beautiful range of pre-painted scenery which will look great on your battlefield!
Made out of MDF, with a little card detailing (and even teddy bear fur on the thatched roofs!) all you need to assemble these great buildings is PVA glue.
NEW! Secret Weapon Rolling Field 6’x4’ hard plastic gaming table
This beauty by our friends at Secret Weapon is from their tablescapes range and made entirely out of hard plastic. It’s fully modular and clips apart for easy storage. All you need to do is paint it!
Painted Tile Example:
And lastly…
NEW! Abyssal Dwarf Supreme Ironcaster on Great Winged Abyssal
What’s worse than a vicious magic-caster Dwarf from the Abyss? One that’s mounted on a mystical flying beast of darkness, that’s what.
Yesterday we featured the Basilean High Paladin on Dragon – today we’ve got an Abyssal Dwarf Supreme Ironcaster on Great Winger Abyssal!
A new metal rider and metal head for the plastic dragon kit, there’s no stretch goal for this one, you can just simply add it on to your pledge for $25. Enjoy
Updated Art
We’ve got updated art from Dungeon Saga for our Undead Demonlord Ba' el and celestial Valandor campaign character pack – check them out:
Undead Demonlord Ba' el
Cast to the deepest pit of the Abyss, his soul trapped and bound in the very Tome of Valandor itself, Ba’ el has now returned to take his revenge. Half mad with rage and spite, his physical frame racked by the changes wrought upon it by the weird powers of the Abyss, Ba’ el has only one focus – the destruction of his ‘brother’ Valandor, and his ascension to true Godhood.
Valandor
A legendary hero from the time before the Great Flood, Valandor’s true nature was revealed when he returned to battle the creatures of the Abyss once again. Now he faces a terrible choice – destroy one half of his immortal being, or watch the world of mortals burn to ashes.
These two leading characters are available to add on to your pledge in our $20 campaign pack.
And finally…
We are now just 5 days until the end of the campaign and between now and then we’ve got Black Friday, and we have to do something a bit special for Black Friday, right?
So, we’re considering two new pledge levels that makes getting several – or all – of the armies a bit easier on the wallet. Would a bulk army pledge level interest you? Let us know in the comments.
Ooh, and before we go, Ronnie Renton will be on Chilling Wargamers tonight live at 8:00pm GMT. Don't miss it!
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Post by: Pacific
Azazelx wrote: jorny wrote:A Basilean concept that actually looks good! What will happen next? Cats chasing dogs?
My old cat did this whenever dogs got a bit too close. She was a tough one. Still, it takes more than cats chasing dogs to see a Basilean concept make it all the way to great miniatures!
Is that the cat in your avatar? I can believe it
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Post by: judgedoug
highlord tamburlaine wrote:I just got some Mantic trolls for ten bucks with shipping. We'll see how they stack up. Never minded the aesthetic of them. Just big dumb trolls.
HOWEVER- I had never thought of getting some Mierce ones to use. Duh. Because I don't have enough Darklands stuff already, right?
Guess it's back to ebay to hunt up some cheap trolls...
Actually, let me rephrase. I use Ysian Brutes for my Orc Trolls, and Norse Trolls for my Goblin Trolls. Thematically fits better
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Post by: Azazelx
Different cat. She was smaller and much more sweet looking, but tough as a bag of nails. This one is a boy. He's bigger and stronger but she'd still have beat the gak out of him.
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Post by: DaveC
Just listening to the Chilling Wargamers chat, there will be new pledge levels for French and Spanish versions of the rules tomorrow. They are still looking into German.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
Listening here as well. That is great news for the game.
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Post by: DaveC
Ratmen for KoW are possible depends on how the VeerMyn do in DZ first
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Post by: RobertsMinis
Other interesting things were that they would consider going back to the Men of Arms but there are other human armies they would like to explore first namely Norse (a mention of Ice Giants) and Middle Eastern (mentions of Genies).
There are plans for something special on Friday, Forces of Nature related was hinted at.
Ronnie is actually very funny.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I really wish they would just move on to board game plastic instead of restic or metal for elite units or monsters. Metal heroes are somewhat acceptable, except half the metal Mantic heroes I've bought were underwhelming for their price.
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Post by: overtyrant
Plastic boards and scenery look great. Bit pricey but look great.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
The quality of the secret weapons boards is top notch. 4ground stuff is great - painted and easy to build. It does have the limitations of MDF and the joins can look a bit meh.
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Post by: scarletsquig
I have a Secret Weapon board, it is absolutely amazing. If you have the cash it is the final word in a high quality modular gaming surface that will last a lifetime.
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Post by: primalexile
Frontline Gaming mats are a much better option imho, but that is an argument for another thread.
These updates have been so underwhelming I have actually dropped my pledge from 250.00 to 1.00. Metal figures and just crappy concept art are not doing it for me on this one.
I could be tempted back up to a mega army if Abyssal's get armored humans.. I would love to see a troop type of humans wearing armor similar to forgeworlds chaos dwarves.
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Post by: sukura636
 primalexile wrote:Frontline Gaming mats are a much better option imho, but that is an argument for another thread.
These updates have been so underwhelming I have actually dropped my pledge from 250.00 to 1.00. Metal figures and just crappy concept art are not doing it for me on this one.
I could be tempted back up to a mega army if Abyssal's get armored humans.. I would love to see a troop type of humans wearing armor similar to forgeworlds chaos dwarves.
This is not the lawsuit you're looking for
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Post by: adamsouza
I'm just really suprised they didn't throw in the Dungeon Siege Abyssals as an add-on or stretch goal.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Well either they people have asked loud enough (or they feel this is doing sufficiently badly) to do what they've been insisting they would not do
Army upgradges
Update #21 Nov 27 2014
Happy Thanksgiving!
We just wanted to say Happy Thanksgiving to our friends in the United States and all of our friends around the world.
Without you and the countless other hobbyists in the world we could not run these kind of creative projects. We love our games, and you guys help make it possible. Thank you.
As is tradition, we’re in that Black Friday-crazed weekend of special deals and tantalising offers – and we know a little something about crazy crazy deals. And we’re going to start some of that madness right here, right now.
Welcome to the start of our Black Friday Weekend Spectacular!
NEW PLEDGE LEVEL!
Tomorrow we are going to unleash the limited Ultimate pledge which will nab you all of the Mega Armies - perfect if you want all the armies or have friends or local club players who want to get into Kings of War together.
For $850 it will get you:
- a God of War pledge ($150), including any 2 Starter Armies or 1 Mega-Starter Army
- Any 8 Mega-Starter Armies ($800)
That’s one $100 Mega-Starter Army totally free!
If we end up doing a new Mega-Starter Armies for any reason (nature?), then we’ll include that one free as well.
These will only be available in highly limited numbers, so grab them before they’re gone - they will be made live tomorrow around 5:30pm GMT!
NEW! ARMY BOOSTERS
So, you’ve picked your pledge level and you’ve picked what army/armies you want – but now you want to go a little bit further? Well, after being asked and asked and asked for it, we’ve put together some Army Boosters that allow you to expand your starter and mega-starter armies with heroes, elite troops and warmachines.
These discounted army boosters are sets configured especially for the Kickstarter, and contain some of the more specialist kits not usually stocked in stores. They are perfect for adding more variety and choice to your force.
Check them out:
All but the Ogres have an Army Booster option now available to add-on to your pledge for $75, saving you around 25% from buying the kits individually whilst addin greater choice and variety to your force.
For the Ogres we recommend adding on a Starter Army.
Want more stretch goals?
Well we are now less than $1400 away from unlocking the Orc War Drum and then boom…
... we’ll include it in the Orc Mega-Starter Army and make it available for $15 to add on.
Since we're so close to breaking the goal, we're going to let you know what the next Stretch Goal is now - we won't post up an update when we break the Orc War Drum.
So, earlier in the week we gave you the Ogre Warlock…
… now it’s time for the Ogre Berserker Braves!
NEW! BONUS $240,000 Ogre Berserker Braves
Hand picked by a Warlock, these young warriors, while deemed not fit enough to be included in the great mercenary companies of the Ogres, nevertheless are fearsome warriors. Fuelled by sheer devotion and versed in the lore and mysticism of their people, they provide not only a physical defence for the Warlock but also a powerful source of energy for him to tap and turn against his foes.
If we hit this stretch goal, we will sculpt and produce the Berserker Braves for the Ogres. This unit is neutral aligned, meaning that you can also use the ally rules to take them in any Evil or Good army as well.
The Ogre Berserker Braves actually boost the Ogre Warlock with additional special rules, making him considerably more capable in his abilities. Similarly, the Warlock gives the Braves a little boost as well, in addition to their Headstrong ability that allows them to possibly shake off Wavering results.
You can add on a set of 3 metal Ogre Berserker Braves onto your pledge for $15.
We will also include the Berserker Braves in the Ogre Mega-Starter Army ($100). You can include this Mega-Starter Army in a pledge of God of War ($150) and Early Bird) or add one on to your existing pledges.
And that's your lot! Make sure you check back tomorrow - just 4 days remaining!
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Some of those "add-ons" look better than others, but as value goes, i'm thinking i'll stick with my plan of adding a second matching mega-army bundle to any army I go in for. It just seems like you get a lot more for another $100 than you do for $75, especially in light of every faction looking to end up with a free hero and elite unit per mega-army bundle anyway.
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Post by: ced1106
Dungeon Stone Tiles took all my KS budget, but Mantic has a 15% off BF sale this weekend, including pre-ordering their CRAZY BOXES!
This year, they have a SF one, and a Christmas one. $75 USD gets you free shipping.
I hear it may be difficult to find individual models. Amazon has some search results?
Black Friday Weekend Madness
This weekend we have Black Friday, Cyber Monday, our Kickstarter is ending and a total weekend of madness and fun in between – we’ve even put out our weekly newsletter on a Thursday instead of Friday it’s that crazy!
To help celebrate Thanksgiving and to kickstart your Black Friday Extravaganza, we’ve set-up this discount code for the Mantic Webstore. Get 15% off everything in the Mantic Webstore by using the code:
THANKSGIVING2014
Whether you’re eyeing up that copy of DreadBall you wanted to get the kids for Christmas or maybe you’ve spied the return of the Christmas Crazy Box, you can use this code to get 15% off. The code expires midnight GMT Monday 1st December - don’t miss it!
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Post by: Tamereth
Still feeling underwhelmed by this Kickstarter, there's just not been enough new stuff. Even most of the abyss stuff is from the DS Kickstarter.
Here's hoping the last weekend brings us forces of nature and some excitement.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
The Sci-fi Crazy Box looks tempting.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Wrong.
KoW Lower Abyssals and Succubi are being tooled as sprue plastic with head/weapon options and Imps on the frame, and the Hero model wasn't in the DS KS.
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Post by: GrimDork
I have sooo much deadzone stuff I'm not sure I could order the SciFi box. Too bad no all fantasy box, KoW units are pretty splashable so even 10 elves or 3 werewolves can easily see play.
Are these higher this year or is the smaller size always $40? 15% off should cover shipping a single box at least.
Curious as to the BF/closing weekend deals/reveals. Should beinteresting.
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Post by: adamsouza
 Tamereth wrote:Still feeling underwhelmed by this Kickstarter, there's just not been enough new stuff.
New Edtion of the game
New Counters
New Army Creator App
New Chess Clock App
New Map of Mantica
New Campaign Book
New Tyrant Blaine
New Necromancer
New Soul Reavers
New Mage Quuen
New Forest Shamblers
New War Wizard
New Arbalest
New Ogre Shaman
New Lower Abyssals
New Abyssal Magi
New Abyssal Imps
New Abyssal Succubi
New Abyssal Champion
New Abyssal Iffrit
New Elf King On Dragon
New Basilean Lord On Dragon
New Abyssal Supreme Isoncaster on Greater Winged Abyssal
New Dwarf Warsmith
New Orc War Drums
New Army Specific Dice
New Ogre Beserker Braves
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Post by: Compel
Oh feth, it is NOT allowed to be crazy box time already.
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Post by: adamsouza
How good are the Crazy box deals ? I've never bought or seen one.
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Post by: Eilif
I bought one a couple years ago. It definitely contained more than double the value compared to the price. Mantic doesn't have a huge resale value, so unless you're splitting it with a friend who has different interests I'd probably skip it.
IIRC, I split it with 2 other folks and we all were very happy with what we got. If I had bought it on my own, I probably wouldn't have been as pleased with the value as compared to what I would have found useful.
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Post by: Compel
They're usually very good, to be honest, though it helps to be quite comfortable, or at least, open minded with most of mantics various models. EG, if you hate restic or want to burn any Basileans on a pyre, don't buy them.
They're quite good as gifts too to entice someone into mantic. - "Here's a box of random mantic models, see what you like and call me in the morning for a game."
Here's a couple of examples from last year:
C for Chovar
1 Bag of 10 Corporation Marines
1 Bag of Basilean panthers
1 Sprue of 10 Elven Bowmen Command
1 Sprue of 2 Orx Warpath Command
1 Sprue of 2 Deadzone humans and 1 Deadzone Yndij
1 Bag of Dreadball Z'zor with Guard and Striker
1 Silver Paint pot (anyone know the actual colour?)
1 Loka Skeleton pawn
1 pair of clippers
D for Deadzone
1 Warpaint Gold
1 pair of clippers
1 KOW Orc Command arm sprue (Hrm, no bodies)
1 bag of 2 Dreadball Asterians
1 Loka... Fire elemental?
1 bag of Ogres with 2 guns
1 Deadzone sprue with Marauder boy and Goblin Sniper
1 Warpath Veermyn Sprue
1 Sprue of 10 Elven Bowmen Command
--------------------------------------------------
To be honest, I've only assembled a few of the models from my crazy boxes and haven't painted a single one yet... But still, they're good value.
Oh, a thought, are the starter armies points and game balanced? I'm thinking of getting the Abyssal Dwarfs and Abyssals starter armies and it'd be nice if they could square off against each other in intro games.
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Post by: adamsouza
There were points totals listed earlier in the thread.. They were all within a few hundred points of each other, with Undead being the highest, if I remember correctly. No way to tell for Abyssals, since their army is getting a complete rules overhaul to go with the new models.
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Post by: squall018
Also remember the crazy boxes don't come with bases, so order some if you don't have any extra lying around.
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Post by: GrimDork
The sale goes on until the first maybe? I'd like to see a couple of breakdowns from open day, especially the difference between the generic and scifi only boxen.
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Post by: JoshInJapan
So, most of the recent stretch goals are for metal models. Does this mean that Mantic is trying to move production back in-house? I would have no complaints about that, as they do fine work on their metal models.
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Post by: judgedoug
The implication is that they are not going to make any more restic/pvc models. When was the last one that was made/released? Everything recently has been hard plastic, metal, or Mars Attacks boardgame plastic.
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Post by: carlos13th
I found the crazy boxes to be a great deal for what you get yet paradoxically a waste of money to me. It's a nice selection from a variety of mantics ranges but realistically there is probably a great deal of it you will never touch.
If your after just some stuff to paint up, stuff for the bits box or a sample of mantics range then it's a goo deal but if their is a specific game or army you want to get into then it probably won't provide you with what you need to get into that.
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Post by: .Mikes.
I haven't been one of those people who have been calling for a KoW version fo Deadzone. It just didn't appeal to me.
Until, for reasons unknown, on my ride to work this morning my mind started thinking about a small band of elves fighting their into a ruined castle, the archers taking up positions so the few swrd elves could defend a moss covered gate from an attack, and thought, "Why the hell hasn't this been locked in yet?!"
I don't know why I started thinking about it this morning, and i don't know why but I'd rather it wasn't on a grid-based board, but count me in the corner as somoene who wants KoW Deadzone now.
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Post by: AlexHolker
adamsouza wrote:How good are the Crazy box deals ? I've never bought or seen one.
There are too many terrible models in Mantic's range for a lucky dip to be worth buying.
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Post by: edlowe
Crazy boxes are a bit of a mixes bag but i did find a use for over half the content of three boxes including the start of an ogre force. Plus the clippers are good.
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Post by: Bioptic
Crazy boxes are quite literally a mixed bag! It tends to be Mantic getting rid of their cheap (i.e. hard plastic sprues) stock, or the stuff that is outdated (like the posters that come in boxes of elves, copies of the Mantic journal, KoW supplements that are going to be replaced in v2.0), with a mix of more up to date stuff in smaller volumes, like Deadzone mercenaries, Dreadball MVPs, or individual bags of Restic troops.
They can include quite up to date stuff (last year I got some Deadzone models in advance of the Kickstarter being posted out).
And yes, make sure to order plenty of extra bases if you don't have them around! Getting sent 20 undead and 10 corporation marines and 6 orcs etc. etc. will chew through spare bases like nobody's business.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Just to check before I do so - If I switch my pledge out from the $50 Living Legend to the $1 pledge, and then later in the pledge manager add the extra $49 to get the Living Legend pledge, do I then also get the free bonus' or do I miss out on them?
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Post by: squall018
Fenriswulf wrote:Just to check before I do so - If I switch my pledge out from the $50 Living Legend to the $1 pledge, and then later in the pledge manager add the extra $49 to get the Living Legend pledge, do I then also get the free bonus' or do I miss out on them?
As long as you upgrade to the "pledge level" and not just buy things piecemeal in the pledge manager, you will get the bonus stuff.
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Post by: scarletsquig
judgedoug wrote:The implication is that they are not going to make any more restic/pvc models. When was the last one that was made/released? Everything recently has been hard plastic, metal, or Mars Attacks boardgame plastic.
Deadzone Asterians/ Forgefathers. It is possible they might be sticking with the material for Deadzone if nothing else, although even with that the new models released during the survey were all metal.
I will not be sad to see it go.
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Post by: adamsouza
The Fires of the Abyss Rise Once More!
We hope everyone had their fill of Thanksgiving Dinner if you celebrated the festivities yesterday, and everyone has had their fill of the Army Boosters we posted up.
No? Then go check them out on the home page
In this update, we unleash a new pledge level, a new stretch goal, more goodies and give you a little hint of what’s to come over the weekend.
Let’s do this!
UNLOCKED! Ogre Berserker Braves
The Ogre Berserker Braves are locked in and funded! As a neutral aligned Large Infantry unit, these brutes will fight for any army, Good, Evil or Neutral.
The Ogre Berserker Braves have been added to the Ogre Mega-Starter Army ($100), which you can add on to your pledge or choose as part of a God of War pledge.
NEW! BONUS $250,000 - Abyssal Molochs
Molochs are solitary creatures of a similar stature and strength to an Ogre. Operating in small packs, these creatures are the heavy hitters of the Abyssal hordes, finding themselves directed to where the fighting is fiercest. As likely to turn on one another as to fight the enemy, they are nevertheless useful as a distraction to an opposing army if nothing else.
If we hit this stretch goal, we will produce a set of metal Molochs will alternative weapons. These can be fielded by any Evil or Neutral aligned army, and are different sculpts from the one in Dungeon Saga.
You can add on the Abyssal Molochs for $15 to your pledge. We will include a set of 3 Abyssal Molochs in the Forces of the Abyss Mega-Starter Army ($100).
You can include this Mega-Starter Army in a pledge of God of War ($150) and Early Bird) or add one on to your existing pledges.
NEW! Goblin Warmachines
Yesterday we funded the War Drum for the Orcs, today we’ve also got a little special something for our Goblin cousins…
Goblin Sharpstick Thrower
Whether the Goblins saw Elven bolt throwers and decided to try and copy them, or whether they just got the idea on their own of a large contraption to fling spears at the enemy is not really clear. Crudely built as the Sharpstick Thrower appears, there is no denying its effectiveness, the mechanism propelling the spear at such velocity that a lucky hit will pierce even the thickest armour.
Goblin Rock Lobber
Like the Sharpstick thrower, it is not clear whether this contraption was an attempt to copy other, more elegant designs or just an idea that the Goblins hit upon. Looking like nothing so much as a giant, slightly wobby catapult, this war engine lobs large misshapen rocks at the enemy from far behind the lines. This alone explains the enthusiasm of those Goblins lucky enough to crew one, and the fights that break out amongst them for the honour in the first place.
Above we have got the Goblin Sharpstick Thrower and Goblin Rock Lobber. The kit includes one chassis and crew plus weapon options to build either a Sharpstick Thrower or Rock Lobber.
No stretch goal required! You can now add on the Goblin Warmachine to your pledge for $15.
We will also include two Goblins Warmachines in the Goblin Mega-Starter Army – This way you can build either 2 Sharpstick Throwers, 2 Rock Lobbers, or one of each.
NEW! Basius by Wargames Bakery
Our friends over at Wargames Bakery have created Basius, a fantastic double sided pad for creating your own textured bases for your miniatures!
Want to know more about Basius before adding it on to your pledge?
Click here to find out more about the Kings of War Pad and all it's details. For How-To guides and more from Wargames Bakery, you can go to their website here.
New Pledge Level
The new limited Ultimate Tyrant pledge is live - perfect if you want all the armies or have friends or local club players who want to get into Kings of War together. For $850 you get:
- a God of War pledge ($150), including any 2 Starter Armies or 1 Mega-Starter Army
- Any 8 Mega-Starter Armies ($800)
That’s one $100 Mega-Starter Army totally free!
If we end up doing a new Mega-Starter Army (Force of Nature?), then we’ll include that one free as well.
These are only available in highly limited numbers, so grab them before they’re gone.
And finally…
Reckon we should tackle this next? In Hard Plastic?
Let us know in the comments XD
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Post by: RobertsMinis
There could be other reasons for no restic - factory booked out, low demand for fantasy models etc. Some models are great in restic, like the Plague Stage 1, Iron Ancestors etc.
And lots more goodies added!
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Post by: Rolt
*Wow, sniped and edited*
so guys and gals this is next in hard plastic!
Hope everyones ready for maximum highlording
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Thanks, Goblins. Now I have that song stuck in my head... Rock Lobster!
Plastic dragonment could put Mantic back on the map, though.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
I like the Dragon people. Though I don't want to paint lots of flames!
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Post by: adamsouza
What Faction do Dragonmen belong to ?
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Rolt wrote:
*Wow, sniped and edited*
so guys and gals this is next in hard plastic!
Hope everyones ready for maximum highlording
We need Alpharius and his Highlord meme stat...
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Post by: GrimDork
Salamanders, a block infantry for the nature.
Pretty neat.
If they ever get all of the nature profiles set up with proper models, it'll be a really neat range.
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Post by: Gallahad
Why can't anything Mantic makes just have regular leg proportions? I doubt that Mantic would lose customers by making realistic looking demons in hard plastic, but they definitely loose customers by going with the "I am designed so 3 year olds can make me stand up" proportions. I know that there are people that don't mind the cartoony WOW look, but are those same people turned off by models that look more realistic? Are there people out there looking for a cartoony mass fantasy battle game? Many of these models wouldn't look much out of place in a game of Super Dungeon Explore.
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Post by: DaveC
Hmmm $15 for 3 metal Molochs or $25 for a DS Infernal crypts? they've already confirmed Hellhounds won't be done in the KoW KS I think I'd get more bang for my buck with a second Infernal crypts set (even if the Molochs are monopose but there is always hot water)
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Post by: Theophony
High lord needs a towel....and a shower after seeing that .
My wife really won't mind waiting another year for a new roof, windows and doors...will she?
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Post by: cygnnus
 Gallahad wrote:
...I doubt that Mantic would lose customers by making realistic looking demons in hard plastic...
Gotta admit, I'm curious what "realistic looking" means when talking about a creature of the imagination... I can only take "realistic" in this context to mean, "what I want it to look like...".
Valete,
JohnS
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Post by: Bolognesus
Gallahad wrote:Why can't anything Mantic makes just have regular leg proportions? I doubt that Mantic would lose customers by making realistic looking demons in hard plastic, but they definitely loose customers by going with the "I am designed so 3 year olds can make me stand up" proportions. I know that there are people that don't mind the cartoony WOW look, but are those same people turned off by models that look more realistic? Are there people out there looking for a cartoony mass fantasy battle game? Many of these models wouldn't look much out of place in a game of Super Dungeon Explore.
Take a look at leg/torso ratios on crocodiles; for once, these proportions actually look quite right to me...
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Post by: adamsouza
I know the Abyssal Army is undergoing a rewrite, but I really hope they do something with the Moloch stat line
Molochs Large Infantry
Unit Size Sp Me Ra De At Ne Pts
Troop (3) 5 4+ – 4+ 12 12/14 120
Regiment (6) 5 4+ – 4+ 24 15/17 200
Special: Crushing Strength (1)
Lower Abyssals Infantry
Unit Size Sp Me Ra De At Ne Pts
Troop (10) 5 4+ – 4+ 20 11/13 115
Regiment (20) 5 4+ – 4+ 20 14/16 150
Horde (40) 5 4+ – 4+ 40 21/23 285
The only reason to take them over the Lower Abyssals is to get crushing Strength(1), for 5 points more, with 8 less attacks.
Ogre Beserker Braves are comperable, but for 20 points more you get 3 more attacks and Headstrong
Ogre Berserker Braves Large Infantry
Unit Size Sp Me Ra De At Ne Pts
Troop (3) 6 4+ – 4+ 15 12/14 140
Regiment (6) 6 4+ – 4+ 30 15/17 225
Special: Headstrong, Crushing Strength (1)
Ogre Warriors Large Infantry
Unit Size Sp Me Ra De At Ne Pts
(1) 6 3+ – 5+ 3 10/12 45
Troop (3) 6 3+ – 5+ 9 12/14 115
Regiment (6) 6 3+ – 5+ 18 15/17 190
Special: Crushing Strength (1)
Options
• Exchange shields with two-handed weapons for free
(lower Defence to 4+, but gain Crushing Strength (2))
Ogre Warriors have 3 fewer attacks but 1 better Me and De for 5 points less
They can even trade that extra point of De for a second level of Crushing Strength
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Post by: Alpharius
adamsouza wrote:What Faction do Dragonmen belong to ?
Why...the Highlord Faction, of course!
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Rolt wrote:
We need Alpharius and his Highlord meme stat...
Indeed!
Hard Plastic is the only way forward!!!
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
The gobin war machines are pretty good value too as I'm sure anybody with a little modelling skill will be able to build both from the bits
I wonder how many crew it will come with?
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Post by: Compel
Ever get the feeling a meme has just flown completely over your head?
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Post by: adamsouza
 Compel wrote:Ever get the feeling a meme has just flown completely over your head?
Yeah, the Highlord thing made me feel like Drax
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Post by: Alpharius
There's a certain user here that goes particularity bonkers over anything lizard and/or dragon man related.
That same user may or may not have a brother who has a similar reaction towards non-goat beastmen. Gnolls maybe.
Maybe.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
Compel wrote:Ever get the feeling a meme has just flown completely over your head?
I'm more disappointed when I get an internet meme!
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Post by: GrimDork
Supposedly they are rebuilding the abyssal list from the ground up. And rebalancing all everything.
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Post by: Rolt
But Alp everyone loves Gnolls, and Kobolds. Everyone.
Now Mantic just need to make some hard plastic gnolls...
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Post by: Baragash
GrimDork wrote:Supposedly they are rebuilding the abyssal list from the ground up. And rebalancing all everything.
Nothing "supposed" about it, the alpha draft(s) were done before KoW2 started
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Post by: adamsouza
 Baragash wrote: GrimDork wrote:Supposedly they are rebuilding the abyssal list from the ground up. And rebalancing all everything.
Nothing "supposed" about it, the alpha draft(s) were done before KoW2 started
Please make Molochs not suck
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I've checked with Mantic and the goblin war machine should come with 3 crew
(which should make getting 2 war machines out of one kit even easier(
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
 cygnnus wrote: Gallahad wrote:
...I doubt that Mantic would lose customers by making realistic looking demons in hard plastic...
Gotta admit, I'm curious what "realistic looking" means when talking about a creature of the imagination... I can only take "realistic" in this context to mean, "what I want it to look like...".
Valete,
JohnS
Good job imitating a troll! I almost bought it!
No semi-normal person could possibly have missed his precise meaning by somehow ignoring all context whatsoever.
You do understand that we have a good idea of how limbs work, both on humans and animals, and that these demons tend to have a mix of human and animal features, so I'm glad I don't have to explain it in even simpler terms.
The old argument that anything that isn't 100% real life should thus be acceptable in any proportions or warpage "just because it isn't real" is pretty funny in this millennium.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bolognesus wrote:
Take a look at leg/torso ratios on crocodiles; for once, these proportions actually look quite right to me...
Crocodiles are quadrupeds who spend a lot of time in water. Are these Salamanders semi-aquatic? They have digitigrade legs, which seems at odds with that. And what about the upper arms? I suppose they could be brachiators, but I doubt that's what most people think of when they think of dragons.
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Post by: cygnnus
BobtheInquisitor wrote: cygnnus wrote: Gallahad wrote:
...I doubt that Mantic would lose customers by making realistic looking demons in hard plastic...
Gotta admit, I'm curious what "realistic looking" means when talking about a creature of the imagination... I can only take "realistic" in this context to mean, "what I want it to look like...".
Valete,
JohnS
Good job imitating a simpleton troll! I almost bought it!
No semi-normal person could possibly have missed his precise meaning by somehow ignoring all context whatsoever.
You do understand that we have a good idea of how limbs work, both on humans and animals, and that these demons tend to have a mix of human and animal features, so I'm glad I don't have to explain it in even simpler terms.
The old argument that anything that isn't 100% real life should thus be acceptable in any proportions or warpage "just because it isn't real" is pretty funny in this millennium.
I love it! Making an observation that what is a "realistic" depiction of a Demon ultimately comes down to personal preferences, and now I'm a simpleton troll (sorry, lest I ignore all context whatsoever I should hasten to add than i'm, apparently, just "imitating" one) and not a "semi-normal person". Huh... Such hostility and need to be "right". To each their own, I suppose...
Valete,
JohnS
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
EDIT: Brachiating dragons might actually be really cool.
I'm also not as concerned about the salamander's limb proportions in the art as I am in the Mantic sculptor's ability not to interpret the art in the most over-the-top Mighty Mouse style possible. I am still smarting over the brachiating werewolves. Automatically Appended Next Post: cygnnus wrote:
I love it! Making an observation that what is a "realistic" depiction of a Demon ultimately comes down to personal preferences, and now I'm a simpleton troll (sorry, lest I ignore all context whatsoever I should hasten to add than i'm, apparently, just "imitating" one) and not a "semi-normal person". Huh... Such hostility and need to be "right". To each their own, I suppose...
Valete,
JohnS
Okay, I did go too far and I apologize. I tried to edit it down a bit just after I posted it but you were too quick. "It's not real" is one of my buttons. At least it wasn't a WW1 German in Space.
To be back on topic, I agree that it comes down to personal preference, and I share Gallahad's. I was responding to your implication that his preference was wrong because demons aren't real, therefore ape-men. I'm sorry I got hostile.
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Post by: AlexHolker
The Salamanders are terrible. It's not just the legs, which are inadequate for a biped. The tail is bad as well. The torso should not be vertical and the tail should not be horizontal - the tail should be relatively rigid and much closer to parallel to the rest of the spine. That would do a much better job of conveying the creature's reptilian nature than sticking the wrong legs and wrong tail on it.
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Post by: Eilif
 AlexHolker wrote:The Salamanders are terrible. It's not just the legs, which are inadequate for a biped. The tail is bad as well. The torso should not be vertical and the tail should not be horizontal - the tail should be relatively rigid and much closer to parallel to the rest of the spine. That would do a much better job of conveying the creature's reptilian nature than sticking the wrong legs and wrong tail on it.
I think I agree, though I don't have the biological background. I just saw the legs and thought "why's he got such stumpy legs? Is he a Salamander dwarf" Realism be darned, I think a Salamander-man should look cool and those tiny legs just don't.
Good to hear they'll be hard plastic though. Cheaper material + more options per fig + easier to work with = Plastic = Better!
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Post by: Alpharius
It's Mantic's House Style, like restic used to be their House Material.
They've seemingly finally figured out that no one wants restic, so maybe there's still hope for well proportioned legs someday too?
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Post by: Rolt
Looks like were only about $500 odd from hitting the Molochs, hopefully we'll see some of the Nature Army previews by tonight.
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Post by: GrimDork
Looks like we're really ramping up if that's the case. Maybe
?
I've not been following as closely as I usually do =/
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Post by: Rolt
Update: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war-fantasy-battle-game-2nd-edition/posts
$275,000 Hard Plastic Salamanders:
Salamanders are heavy infantry that can be armed with hand weapons and shields or two handed weapons that can cleave a man in half, leaving a
fiery streak swathing through the air. They can be taken as an elite infantry choice in the new Force of the Abyss Force List, or chosen as part of the
Forces of Nature where, as a neutral-aligned unit, can be taken as part of any other army too.
Massively strong, Salamanders are a tough opponent on the battlefield and an asset to any fighting force. If we hit this stretch goal, we will be able to sculpt, tool
and produce the Salamanders in hard plastic – the first real core unit for the Forces of Nature. You will be able to add them on to your pledge for $15.
And some info on the new army sets:
he Salamanders will be added alongside the Forest Shamblers into a Starter ($50) and Mega-Starter Army ($100). These will get filled up over the course of the final weekend and last day.
The Starter Army ($50) contents begins at:
- 20 Salamanders (which can be armed with hand weapon and shields or two handed weapons)
- 3 Forest Shamblers
- ?????????????????
The Mega-Starter Army ($100) begins at:
- ?????????????????
- 40 Salamanders (which can be armed with hand weapon and shields or two handed weapons)
- 6 Forest Shamblers
- ?????????????????
- ?????????????????
You’ll notice that there are still a few items currently blanked out. We’ll flesh these out as we go along hitting more goals.
If you’re super confident of beating our next goals, you could go ahead and pledge for an additional army now - remember you don’t make your choices on armies until after
the campaign has finished, which gives us plenty of time to get them funded. And if we don’t break them all, you can always choose something else ☺
Enjoy.
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Post by: GrimDork
Gonna be a tough slog to 275k but I think enough people like the salmanders to see it happen.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Tyrant pledge level is really driving up the total as well, though they're limited and only so many backers are going to be after 850 dollar pledges.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I think Alpharius is more excited about getting to highlord things up in here more than I am at this point!
I shall reserve judgement on the salamanders until we see some renders at least. Curious as to what kinds of option parts they'd have. Hopefully some non flaming/ smoking ones. I don't want to have to paint all those flames!
Interesting to see they'll have a 2 handed weapon option available as well. Hopefully they'll have something beyond big rocks and pointy sticks like most reptiles seem to get stuck with.
I think the Salamanders would also make good abyssal stand ins for those that don't like the cartoony imp style.
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Post by: GrimDork
Well the salamanders are already technically heavy infantry for the abyssals as it is. From the art we've seen so far I'm assuming they'll have proper forged weapons, maybe of the molten hot variety.
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Post by: jorny
Mantica! Where mighty armies waddle onto the field of battle to bring death and destruction to their enemies!
The short legs aside (funny that their dwarfs are better proportioned than many others), the game looks really interesting. The question is what army to build.
Maybe the dwarfs? I'll just have to swap all the shields to something that looks better. Are they stuck to the body or are they glued on?
On the other hand Ral Partha Europe is having a sale this weekend. How is the kingdom of men list? Fun to play, or just vanilla?
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Post by: .Mikes.
GrimDork wrote:Looks like we're really ramping up if that's the case. Maybe
?
I've not been following as closely as I usually do =/
It's getting there:
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Post by: GrimDork
Ooh yeah look at that. Fancy.
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Post by: Azreal13
highlord tamburlaine wrote:I think Alpharius is more excited about getting to highlord things up in here more than I am at this point!
I shall reserve judgement on the salamanders until we see some renders at least. Curious as to what kinds of option parts they'd have. Hopefully some non flaming/ smoking ones. I don't want to have to paint all those flames!
Interesting to see they'll have a 2 handed weapon option available as well. Hopefully they'll have something beyond big rocks and pointy sticks like most reptiles seem to get stuck with.
I think the Salamanders would also make good abyssal stand ins for those that don't like the cartoony imp style.
Will it harsh your mellow if I point out the salamanders are technically amphibians and not lizards?
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Post by: RobertsMinis
jorny wrote:Mantica! Where mighty armies waddle onto the field of battle to bring death and destruction to their enemies!
The short legs aside (funny that their dwarfs are better proportioned than many others), the game looks really interesting. The question is what army to build.
Maybe the dwarfs? I'll just have to swap all the shields to something that looks better. Are they stuck to the body or are they glued on?
On the other hand Ral Partha Europe is having a sale this weekend. How is the kingdom of men list? Fun to play, or just vanilla?
There are a few models on the sprue with molded on shields.
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Post by: GrimDork
Looks like 2/5 on the troop sprue for Ironclads, and none on the command sprue. If you're just going to add new shields, should be pretty easy to shave down the integral shields to do it.
1
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Post by: Eilif
GrimDork wrote:Looks like 2/5 on the troop sprue for Ironclads, and none on the command sprue. If you're just going to add new shields, should be pretty easy to shave down the integral shields to do it.
If you have a motor tool (the Dremel 543 bit is ace for this kind of work) you can quickly do this sort of work, though it would be best if the shield you're replacing them with is as big or bigger, at least for the ones you have to grind off.
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
Some new KOW or possible DKH images coming out at the open day, all from the twitter account of @FistyGlueMan
Ogre
Orcs
Abyssal Demons
Misc inc Blaine
KOW 2nd Edition Cheat Sheet
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Post by: RobertsMinis
Some lovely and interesting greens. I see they have bulked up the troll legs but not to the extent that they look out of place with the existing trolls but probably not enough to make the peanut gallery want to buy them.
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Post by: Riquende
Interesting rules sheet.
Incidentally, I wonder if regiments armed with missile weapons are now worth taking at all?
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Anyone notice the Salamander in the background of the Blaine pic? Also, the Dryad druid looks particularly badass..
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Post by: RobertsMinis
The improvement to Zap is interesting. Wind-blast is going to make games very interesting...
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
More from @FistyGlueMan
3d printed abyssal
Render of Abyssal Succubi
3d Abyssals for Dungeon Saga:
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Post by: overtyrant
Both 3D print and render are very bad but then I did not expect much from these
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Post by: Ahtman
That 3D Succubi model better be a WIP. The clear resin ones and the parts look fairly nice though. The painted one at top is hard to tell.
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Post by: AlexHolker
The proportions on the Succubus don't look good, but it's hard to tell how much of that is just the failure to post a screenshot of the render instead of taking a photo at an angle of a computer monitor displaying the render. If it's not, though... seriously, Mantic, fire whatever moron told you tiny legs look good.
EDIT: Actually, seeing as we have the rectangle of the screen as a guide, we can do this:
It's not too bad once you see it head on, but they really need to add a navel to break up the abdomen.
1
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Post by: Black Nexus
Succubi is WIP, and it's an awful photo at a bad angle to judge it from.
The Lower Abyssal in that photo has just started being painted too.
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Post by: Alpharius
 Azreal13 wrote: highlord tamburlaine wrote:I think Alpharius is more excited about getting to highlord things up in here more than I am at this point!
I shall reserve judgement on the salamanders until we see some renders at least. Curious as to what kinds of option parts they'd have. Hopefully some non flaming/ smoking ones. I don't want to have to paint all those flames!
Interesting to see they'll have a 2 handed weapon option available as well. Hopefully they'll have something beyond big rocks and pointy sticks like most reptiles seem to get stuck with.
I think the Salamanders would also make good abyssal stand ins for those that don't like the cartoony imp style.
Will it harsh your mellow if I point out the salamanders are technically amphibians and not lizards?
I think they're aiming more for a 1E AD&D "Salamander" here:
IIRC, AD&D Salamanders are native to the Elemental Plane of Fire...
Additionally, that Lesser Abyssal looks...abysmal.
And not in a good way.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Yeah it's why I am staying well away from buying any. Been burnt before by Mantic, never again.
The sad thing is, if they hired some genuinely talented artists, sculptors and 3d artists, they could clean up in an absolutely massive way. Unfortunately they still seem to be stuck in the "near enough is good enough" mindset which plagued the first KoW kickstarter.
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Post by: DaveC
Well I'll be sticking with Manics Sci-Fi offerings only it looks like seeing the miniatures from the open day has convinced me that their fantasy range is not for me. They just saved me money on the Kow KS and extras for DS (I'll stick with the base pledge). On the other hand it looks like Deadzone 2 and Warpath will take that money - you Mantic you win
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