King Pyrrhus wrote: The limited edition price seems crazy to me. £110 is way more then I'm willing to pay.
Seeing as the normal version of the book is £30, I was expecting £50 and I might have paid £60. Instead now I'll just buy the normal version from my flgs for 20% off.
Kharn is more expensive than (in pricing order, and again not including Monstrous Creatures):
1. Blood Angel Chaplain
2. Blood Angel Terminator Librarian
3. Space Marine Command Squad (WTF?)
4. The combined set that has the plastic Marine Captain, Chaplain and Librarian in one bundle (WT-F'ing-F!!!)
5. The (also blatantly overpriced) Tech-Priest Enginseer
6. Big Mek w/Shokk Attack Gun
7. The Space Marine Captain box
8. Twice the price of the BA Termy Libby.
9. Over twice the price of every other HQ mini, from the Painboy through to Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken.
The only command units more expensive are the Tech-Priest dude from the Ad Mech army (but you can get him in the Starterbox so who cares), the two-pack 30K heroes, the Crisis Commander... and that's it (exclusding Squad + HQ bundles).
I say again:
What.
The.
Feth.
GW?
Yeah, but an Australian chaos players cost of living is so much higher than one who plays space marines, everything is more expensive, chaos cars, chaos golf clubs, chaos scuba diving....
streetsamurai wrote: Ho wow. Just check the rates and the nez Zealand dollar is pretty much equivalent to the canadian dollar. Is there really people over there who buy these insanely priced minis?
Chikout wrote:As I said before, try complaining directly to Gw.(in a slighty more polite way than what the f.) Alternatively don't buy the mini.
A lot of us are doing that now. That is why this is so surprising. GW is still up to it's old tricks.
SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
King Pyrrhus wrote: The limited edition price seems crazy to me. £110 is way more then I'm willing to pay. Seeing as the normal version of the book is £30, I was expecting £50 and I might have paid £60. Instead now I'll just buy the normal version from my flgs for 20% off.
WarGW never changes.
I was going to say this but thought, yes GW is changing. Then again, maybe they are not, just using smoke and mirrors now and instead of the saviour of the game for us, Mr Roundtree is just a magician.
Atleast the cards are a bit more specific about what their disciplines do. I have no clue about the SM Cards. Are these now roughly copied from SM or not?
Spoiler:
- Sinistrum Discipline: tear away the psychic energies of your foes, bolster your own, and annihilate with hideous curses from the darkness of the void;
- Heretech Discipline: drive your mind into the inner workings of enemy war machines, dominate their machine spirits with the cruel will of a torturer and make armoured might into weakness;
- Ectomancy Discipline: draw upon the power of the Warp, manifesting crackling black lightning with which to scorch the foe, burn projectiles out of the air or tear holes in reality;
- Geomortis Discipline: rip open great chasms, cause the ground itself to erupt in geysers of razor-sharp rock or even reshape the world into a form more – or less – pleasing to the eye.
Still email in the brief note about concerns with pricing beyond way uneven between currencies.
It isn't as simple as plugging in the exchange rate. People have no idea how trade works and think that it's free trade everywhere. Then you have to worry about taxes and repatriating profits. Do people really think GW is overcharging for the fun of it?
To import a car to NZ from the UK as an example it's roughly 3000 pounds in duties and documentation. GW product will fall under luxury goods
Still email in the brief note about concerns with pricing beyond way uneven between currencies.
It isn't as simple as plugging in the exchange rate. People have no idea how trade works and think that it's free trade everywhere. Then you have to worry about taxes and repatriating profits. Do people really think GW is overcharging for the fun of it?
To import a car to NZ from the UK as an example it's roughly 3000 pounds in duties and documentation. GW product will fall under luxury goods
SicSemperTyrannis wrote: Atleast the cards are a bit more specific about what their disciplines do. I have no clue about the SM Cards. Are these now roughly copied from SM or not?
Spoiler:
- Sinistrum Discipline: tear away the psychic energies of your foes, bolster your own, and annihilate with hideous curses from the darkness of the void;
- Heretech Discipline: drive your mind into the inner workings of enemy war machines, dominate their machine spirits with the cruel will of a torturer and make armoured might into weakness;
- Ectomancy Discipline: draw upon the power of the Warp, manifesting crackling black lightning with which to scorch the foe, burn projectiles out of the air or tear holes in reality;
- Geomortis Discipline: rip open great chasms, cause the ground itself to erupt in geysers of razor-sharp rock or even reshape the world into a form more – or less – pleasing to the eye.
Those tables are fun, so I'm happy that CSM would have access to them.
For those comparing Kharn to price of other plastic HQs, also remember the Kharm is a unique model, meaning most people will only ever include one in their collection. The HQs I'm seeing named as examples are generics. I honestly expect all named/unique HQs to cost more than generics.
SicSemperTyrannis wrote: Atleast the cards are a bit more specific about what their disciplines do. I have no clue about the SM Cards. Are these now roughly copied from SM or not?
Spoiler:
- Sinistrum Discipline: tear away the psychic energies of your foes, bolster your own, and annihilate with hideous curses from the darkness of the void;
- Heretech Discipline: drive your mind into the inner workings of enemy war machines, dominate their machine spirits with the cruel will of a torturer and make armoured might into weakness;
- Ectomancy Discipline: draw upon the power of the Warp, manifesting crackling black lightning with which to scorch the foe, burn projectiles out of the air or tear holes in reality;
- Geomortis Discipline: rip open great chasms, cause the ground itself to erupt in geysers of razor-sharp rock or even reshape the world into a form more – or less – pleasing to the eye.
That's pretty much Identical to the SM ones
Librarius - anti psychic
Technomancy - Vehicles
Fulmination - lightning
Geomancy - Earth
Still email in the brief note about concerns with pricing beyond way uneven between currencies.
It isn't as simple as plugging in the exchange rate. People have no idea how trade works and think that it's free trade everywhere. Then you have to worry about taxes and repatriating profits. Do people really think GW is overcharging for the fun of it?
To import a car to NZ from the UK as an example it's roughly 3000 pounds in duties and documentation. GW product will fall under luxury goods
Well said.
The import duty into New Zealand on toys (including scale models) is 5%.
The mark up over UK is almost 100%.
Unless they're flying them out in hand luggage, it's difficult to justify based on import costs.
Still email in the brief note about concerns with pricing beyond way uneven between currencies.
It isn't as simple as plugging in the exchange rate. People have no idea how trade works and think that it's free trade everywhere. Then you have to worry about taxes and repatriating profits. Do people really think GW is overcharging for the fun of it?
To import a car to NZ from the UK as an example it's roughly 3000 pounds in duties and documentation. GW product will fall under luxury goods
Well said.
The import duty into New Zealand on toys (including scale models) is 5%.
The mark up over UK is almost 100%.
Unless they're flying them out in hand luggage, it's difficult to justify based on import costs.
Sersi wrote: I just hope there is at least some representation of the other cults besides Khorne. Give me a relentless Noise Marine formation and all is forgiven.
Well they do mention word bearers on the website, so hopefully whatever they get is at least generic enough to not be stuck with khorne.
Kharn is more expensive than (in pricing order, and again not including Monstrous Creatures):
1. Blood Angel Chaplain
2. Blood Angel Terminator Librarian
3. Space Marine Command Squad (WTF?)
4. The combined set that has the plastic Marine Captain, Chaplain and Librarian in one bundle (WT-F'ing-F!!!)
5. The (also blatantly overpriced) Tech-Priest Enginseer
6. Big Mek w/Shokk Attack Gun
7. The Space Marine Captain box
8. Twice the price of the BA Termy Libby.
9. Over twice the price of every other HQ mini, from the Painboy through to Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken.
The only command units more expensive are the Tech-Priest dude from the Ad Mech army (but you can get him in the Starterbox so who cares), the two-pack 30K heroes, the Crisis Commander... and that's it (exclusding Squad + HQ bundles).
I say again:
What.
The.
Feth.
GW?
I'm increasingly convinced GW is deliberately increasing the prices in your region to get you personaly to rage quit, in an attempt to silence your 40K posting.
Still email in the brief note about concerns with pricing beyond way uneven between currencies.
It isn't as simple as plugging in the exchange rate. People have no idea how trade works and think that it's free trade everywhere. Then you have to worry about taxes and repatriating profits. Do people really think GW is overcharging for the fun of it?
To import a car to NZ from the UK as an example it's roughly 3000 pounds in duties and documentation. GW product will fall under luxury goods
So how come Forgeworld is sold for roughly the same price in the UK as in NZ and AUS? FW product fall under luxury goods as well.
What is more plausible?:
- GW does overcharge NZ and AUS simply because they think they can get away with it (otherwise put "for the fun of it")
- FW (and thus by extension GW) sell stuff to NZ/AUS at a loss because they would need to sell it at double the cost to cover taxes and duties
Maelstrom of Gore - Kharn
- 48 (6x8 or 3x16?) Berzerkers
Heldrake Terror Pack - 2 Heldrakes
Raptor Talon - Lord w/jetpack
- 5 Raptors
- 5 Warp Talons
Favoured of Chaos:
- Daemon Prince
- 15 Possessed
They all look bland as hell (especially the Warband, which I guess is our decurion), and they account for 6 of the 11 formations in Traitor's Hate, so not holding out much hope that the others are better. the Helforged Warpack is very similar to the BL Daemon Engine Pack formation, the Favoured of Chaos looks a lot like The Tormented and the Chaos Warband is basically a variation on Black Legion warband, so even calling these "New" is pushing it
Maelstrom of Gore - Kharn
- 48 (6x8 or 3x16?) Berzerkers
A picture from the book shows Kharn with 8 units of 8 Zerkers with 3 LoS, which doesn't help at all.
If they wanted the formation to be KDK compatible they would make it 6x8 since KDK Zerkers have to be taken in min squads of 8. 3x16 would be silly since metal bawkses would be null and void, unless they are getting Fleet and Move Through Cover like the OTHER Maelstron of Gore Apoc formation, which would also make Icons redundant (woo less points per squad). All I want is that one page with that one formation with that one little line, "May be taken with Khorne Deamonkin".
Maelstrom of Gore - Kharn
- 48 (6x8 or 3x16?) Berzerkers
Heldrake Terror Pack - 2 Heldrakes
Raptor Talon - Lord w/jetpack
- 5 Raptors
- 5 Warp Talons
Favoured of Chaos:
- Daemon Prince
- 15 Possessed
They all look bland as hell (especially the Warband, which I guess is our decurion), and they account for 6 of the 11 formations in Traitor's Hate, so not holding out much hope that the others are better. the Helforged Warpack is very similar to the BL Daemon Engine Pack formation, the Favoured of Chaos looks a lot like The Tormented and the Chaos Warband is basically a variation on Black Legion warband, so even calling these "New" is pushing it
It is lame how similar they are but there's not a lot of units in the codex.
So how come Forgeworld is sold for roughly the same price in the UK as in NZ and AUS? FW product fall under luxury goods as well.
What is more plausible?:
- GW does overcharge NZ and AUS simply because they think they can get away with it (otherwise put "for the fun of it")
- FW (and thus by extension GW) sell stuff to NZ/AUS at a loss because they would need to sell it at double the cost to cover taxes and duties
For the same reason I buy FW in pounds. Because FW does not carry stock in the country. It is all shipped on demand from the UK to individuals.
GW has to ship and physically place product in stores and carries an inventory.
Maelstrom of Gore - Kharn
- 48 (6x8 or 3x16?) Berzerkers
Heldrake Terror Pack - 2 Heldrakes
Raptor Talon - Lord w/jetpack
- 5 Raptors
- 5 Warp Talons
Favoured of Chaos:
- Daemon Prince
- 15 Possessed
They all look bland as hell (especially the Warband, which I guess is our decurion), and they account for 6 of the 11 formations in Traitor's Hate, so not holding out much hope that the others are better. the Helforged Warpack is very similar to the BL Daemon Engine Pack formation, the Favoured of Chaos looks a lot like The Tormented and the Chaos Warband is basically a variation on Black Legion warband, so even calling these "New" is pushing it
Source? Or did someone just count the models in the pictures?
Still email in the brief note about concerns with pricing beyond way uneven between currencies.
It isn't as simple as plugging in the exchange rate. People have no idea how trade works and think that it's free trade everywhere. Then you have to worry about taxes and repatriating profits. Do people really think GW is overcharging for the fun of it?
To import a car to NZ from the UK as an example it's roughly 3000 pounds in duties and documentation. GW product will fall under luxury goods
Well said.
The import duty into New Zealand on toys (including scale models) is 5%.
The mark up over UK is almost 100%.
Unless they're flying them out in hand luggage, it's difficult to justify based on import costs.
Once again. Well said. Must point out that his argument is even less solid when you consider that GW already sells comparable product to Kharn at about half the price in NZ. But then, this is the internet. Youll always find a few persons trying to defend the indefensible
Maelstrom of Gore - Kharn
- 48 (6x8 or 3x16?) Berzerkers
Heldrake Terror Pack - 2 Heldrakes
Raptor Talon - Lord w/jetpack
- 5 Raptors
- 5 Warp Talons
Favoured of Chaos:
- Daemon Prince
- 15 Possessed
They all look bland as hell (especially the Warband, which I guess is our decurion), and they account for 6 of the 11 formations in Traitor's Hate, so not holding out much hope that the others are better. the Helforged Warpack is very similar to the BL Daemon Engine Pack formation, the Favoured of Chaos looks a lot like The Tormented and the Chaos Warband is basically a variation on Black Legion warband, so even calling these "New" is pushing it
You're missing the knight. They are part of the traitor's hate formation bundles. So most likely just a single knight of any kind as a formation.
And then there is the triple lord of skull formation on the same page as the kharn formation. Doesn't mean that's it's really a formation, but it seems pretty likely to me.
Finally there are the predator/vindicator squadrons, which I could see them doing as formations. Like the pieplate loyalist one. If so, that's 10 formations.
I got the collectors edition anyway, because yay chaos and I like black legion.
Yet at the same time I'm fully expecting the formations to be subpar even when compared to the supplement ones we got. What with the random sprinkling of helbrutes and all. Least the supplement made some of those choices optional.
gigasnail wrote: Hopefully its just a sampling of what you *can* take in the formation, not what you *must* take.
Maybe. They have a terminator lord and a jump pack lord. Seems kinda weird to force that on people. I get it for the starter box formations, but here?
I can see myself using the BL supplement warband once in a while, but this one seems really bad. Warp Talons, possessed, helbrutes AND a terminator lord?...eeeh...yyeaa...no thanks.
Not to mention that the retinue plus lord doesn't fit into a land raider ^_-
So how come Forgeworld is sold for roughly the same price in the UK as in NZ and AUS? FW product fall under luxury goods as well.
What is more plausible?:
- GW does overcharge NZ and AUS simply because they think they can get away with it (otherwise put "for the fun of it")
- FW (and thus by extension GW) sell stuff to NZ/AUS at a loss because they would need to sell it at double the cost to cover taxes and duties
For the same reason I buy FW in pounds. Because FW does not carry stock in the country. It is all shipped on demand from the UK to individuals.
GW has to ship and physically place product in stores and carries an inventory.
Ok, so how come every other miniature company in the world can have their models sold in KZ/AUS for a price similar to what they sell them for in the UK?
PP, Mantic, Spartan etc...
If your answer is "those companies don't run their own stores" then the question is; If Mantic et al. would need to double their prices in order to keep stores in NZ/AUS, how can the local retailers survive by currently selling every kind of models (expept GW's) for a price comparable to what they're sold for in the UK?
For all the folk whining about khorne, if you actually read the blurb its crimson slaughter, black legion and word bearers. Khárn, lord of skulls and the khárn with 64 berzerkers are the only khorne things in the book. This just so happens to be when they release khárn
I just remembered Maelstrom of Gore was from Warzone Pandorax! Kharn/chaos Lord, 8 8-man zerker squads and you get Fleet, Move Through Cover and add 3" to charge moves
the bundle can't make 8-man squads, so maybe they've dropped that requirement and allowed it to be used in not-apoc games, but that still seems a little bad for "New" formations
Charax wrote: I just remembered Maelstrom of Gore was from Warzone Pandorax! Kharn/chaos Lord, 8 8-man zerker squads and you get Fleet, Move Through Cover and add 3" to charge moves
the bundle can't make 8-man squads, so maybe they've dropped that requirement and allowed it to be used in not-apoc games, but that still seems a little bad for "New" formations
Yeah, this isn't the best for such a costly formation. But, movement buffs are in the right direction for things Bezerkers need to make them playable.
Motograter wrote: For all the folk whining about khorne, if you actually read the blurb its crimson slaughter, black legion and word bearers. Khárn, lord of skulls and the khárn with 64 berzerkers are the only khorne things in the book. This just so happens to be when they release khárn
None of the three mentioned are cult legions. Khorne was the only cult got a formation in the last iteration of Black Legion. Crimson Slaughter did have cult specific formations; though it did have a few relics. Oh and those Warhammer store specific formations for Khorne, and the White dwarf formations for Khorne. Kharn the reason Khorne got a formation here, well so what? Daemonkin got a codex because of the new Blood Thirster model, maybe. The point is GW over represents Khorne. Hell, I'd even say there's a very clear Khorne bias. There was anything stopping them releasing a different plastic character afterall.
The description of the warband includes this bit:
>These cruel and selfish renegades compete with each other on the battlefield, each kill spurring the others on to match and exceed the violence on display in a feedback loop that only ends when every single enemy lies in ruin.
This new formation isn't new. It's just the same Black Legion warband we already have.
The psychic powers are also all but confirmed to just be reprints of the loyalist psychic powers based on the discipline names and descriptions on the pre-order page.
Still email in the brief note about concerns with pricing beyond way uneven between currencies.
It isn't as simple as plugging in the exchange rate. People have no idea how trade works and think that it's free trade everywhere. Then you have to worry about taxes and repatriating profits. Do people really think GW is overcharging for the fun of it?
To import a car to NZ from the UK as an example it's roughly 3000 pounds in duties and documentation. GW product will fall under luxury goods
Absolutely, especially to Nz or Oz. But at least folks could ask GW directly and maybe get some response they could believe.
It is worth pointing that video games are also extremely expensive in Australia.
What bothers me is the lack of pricing logic. If Kharn is the same price as the dominus in the UK, they should be the same price everywhere. It makes pricing seem arbitrary and thoughtless.
So they respond to being more profitable overseas by putting the price up. A weak pound is good for exporters like gw.
On topic. We have a spare week between Kharn and gorechosen. More chaos or some random hobby stuff?
Chikout wrote: It is worth pointing that video games are also extremely expensive in Australia.
What bothers me is the lack of pricing logic. If Kharn is the same price as the dominus in the UK, they should be the same price everywhere. It makes pricing seem arbitrary and thoughtless.
Games are only expensive depending on where you buy them, 30-40 percent discount is the norm.
What bothers everyone is the logic, I can buy two Kharns for almost the same price as a fortress of the Unforgiven or whatever it's name is. I think the difference is like 10 bucks.
2 28 mm figures or a massive terrain piece.
Didn't notice the focus on Blood Angels before today's app blurb. Wonder if they are getting anything new.
Know this isn't happening and I could just make one but I'd love to see some BA ruins/corpses as basing for CSM release .
Chikout wrote: So they respond to being more profitable overseas by putting the price up. A weak pound is good for exporters like gw.
On topic. We have a spare week between Kharn and gorechosen. More chaos or some random hobby stuff?
I'm not even sure I believe it myself, but foreign exchange rates have very much been the villain in the narrative of the last few years of preambles (alongside "our own staff" and a bunch of other stuff Kirby felt he could point fingers at.)
A weak pound is good if you're competing with other markets as it can make you cheaper by comparison, if I were to speculate, I'd guess GW are trying to make the same margin in sterling, rather than try and capitalise on a more competitive price to stimulate demand, hence the price increase.
I'm not trying to defend it, I definitely don't agree with it, just trying to understand it. If, that is, there's any logic, however wonky, to understand at all.
Chikout wrote: On topic. We have a spare week between Kharn and gorechosen. More chaos or some random hobby stuff?
No models no rules. We're getting the rules in the first week, and there's no indication of any new units. Resculpts of existing units? Well we've seen the Failcast Sorcerer and Warpsmith in this week's web bundles so they're out. New Berzerkers? Out. Havocs. Out. The campaign is supposed to feature Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter, Word Bearers(!), and Khorne so plague marines, noise marines, and Thousand Sons are likely out. Most likely candidates for new CSM in the next week?
Plastic Dark Apostle to coincide with the formations we haven't seen.
Chaos Deimos-pattern Rhino/Predator/Vindicator.
Plastic Obliterator/Mutilator dual kit.
Spoiler:
Or that's what it would be if this was CSM Fantasyland. But since this is reality it's gonna be new SM bikes, a plastic Marneus Calgar, 4 new SM-only psychic disciplines, an AoS Stormcast Eternal with angel wings, fingerless cutoff gloves and a 7-string B.C. Rich Warlock, and an all new line of hobby paints to replace the existing one in its entirety. See ya next week!
As Abbadon the Despoiler launches his 13th Black Crusade, the diabolical Lord Xophas bypasses the Cadian Gate and leads an invasion of the Diamor System. On the Warmaster’s orders, Xorphas commands the Crimson Slaughter, Black Legion and Word Bearers forces as he seeks a monstrous source of power that could spell the doom of the Imperium itself.
As Abbadon the Despoiler launches his 13th Black Crusade, the diabolical Lord Xophas bypasses the Cadian Gate and leads an invasion of the Diamor System. On the Warmaster’s orders, Xorphas commands the Crimson Slaughter, Black Legion and Word Bearers forces as he seeks a monstrous source of power that could spell the doom of the Imperium itself.
I believe Xophas is a typo. Either that or he gains letters to his True Name the close he gets to Terra.
The import duty into New Zealand on toys (including scale models) is 5%.
The mark up over UK is almost 100%.
Unless they're flying them out in hand luggage, it's difficult to justify based on import costs.
Once again. Well said. Must point out that his argument is even less solid when you consider that GW already sells comparable product to Kharn at about half the price in NZ. But then, this is the internet. Youll always find a few persons trying to defend the indefensible
A big mac in the UK is 3.2 sterling and 6 nzd. If a big mac is almost double and it's food with one of the biggest, most efficient distributors what hope do you think GW will have being less than double?
The GW site states that the Traitor's Hate book pits Chaos against Blood Angels, AdMech amd Knights, has there been any indication that in the new few weeks we might see an Imperium Black Crusade book? So far as I'm aware these campaigns usually come in twos (Leviathan, Exterminatus, Kay'on, Mont'ka, ect) Thoughts? I want my Blood Angel Decurion
Man, I really hope this is where we see the AdMech and Blood Angels Decurions. Not that it will get me to waste any more money on my Blood Angels, but it would be cool to see more rules for them. I would really like Tank Squadrons for them. Especially since basically every update to a Space Marine faction (including CSM) has added squadrons.
The import duty into New Zealand on toys (including scale models) is 5%.
The mark up over UK is almost 100%.
Unless they're flying them out in hand luggage, it's difficult to justify based on import costs.
Once again. Well said. Must point out that his argument is even less solid when you consider that GW already sells comparable product to Kharn at about half the price in NZ. But then, this is the internet. Youll always find a few persons trying to defend the indefensible
A big mac in the UK is 3.2 sterling and 6 nzd. If a big mac is almost double and it's food with one of the biggest, most efficient distributors what hope do you think GW will have being less than double?
Well, firstly that link isn't to anything meaningful, it is simply to a list of links. I actually went to chapter 95 (I think) of the PDFs of different tariffs, and found the toys (including scale models) entry, and it is 5%
If there are other duties, fair enough, but that still doesn't explain the margin, especially when you factor it will be paid on the wholesale price.
Secondly, £3.20 is equal to NZ$5.83 at current rates, so...
Automatically Appended Next Post: This is getting further and further OT though, so if anyone feels the need, probably better start a thread over in DD
So, it seems like GW is going through and remaking several old Finecast characters in Plastic. It started way back with Logan Grimnar, but we have had Ulrik the Slayer, and now Kharn and possibly Abaddon based on rumors. I am wondering if we will see a new Mephiston or Dante out of this. Just spit-balling.
I am really excited for the next volume in Black Crusade. Hopefully we see more Chaos and some Blood Angels!
Just realized, Kharns price also reflects that this is a non-essential model they've been selling for $20 for 20 years?
A lot of people have this model, and may not "upgrade."
Azreal13 wrote: Rumour has it he's included in the next 30K box, so he'll al,PST certainly be part of a good deal, depending on your wants vs the rest of the box.
I wish to make a thousand sons 30k army to add to my list of forces so far I have 2 BOC sets -1 dread that I have in my 40k thousand sons
Still holding on the book but hopefully 60 guys and 10 terms and a dread will give me a good core force
H.B.M.C. wrote: So... rule reprints of the same formations from before, psychic powers that other armies already had, and a super-over priced Special Character model.
It really does suck to play an NPC army.
My thought from that is that this is a quick fix for CSM / quick buck for GW, because they know that 8th is not too far off and don't want to bother writing more rules for 7th.
Just saw all this on their site. I've never collected Chaos for any of their games but thought the character looked cool. Then I saw the price.
A tick in the wrong direction column from my viewpoint.
But then they just made progress via Death Masque and Kill Team and even removing bundles that were receiving complaints due to severe price inconsistencies.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So... rule reprints of the same formations from before, psychic powers that other armies already had, and a super-over priced Special Character model.
It really does suck to play an NPC army.
My thought from that is that this is a quick fix for CSM / quick buck for GW, because they know that 8th is not too far off and don't want to bother writing more rules for 7th.
It's basically a rules compendium for CSM than a major new thing. Angels of Death had a few original things, but was mostly new psychic powers, rules for the Calth Models taken from FW and limited to the options in the plastic kits, and chapter specific rules from Kauyon, Raukan, Sentinels of Terra, and Salamanders given one as well.
The next army to get the same treatment will hopefully be Nids. Their rules are all over the place, and could use consolidation in one book with a few other things thrown in (Genestealer Cult?)
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: I wonder if they'll add the betrayal at calth models' rules to this for chaos marines. Since they are half of the set and all...
That would certainly be cool, though I am really not expecting it. It is about the only way I would start up a CSM army right now since most of their models are ancient. The Calth models look fantastic. Maybe if the Cult Marines get an update. I would totally be all over an Emperor's Children army based off the Calth sets.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So... rule reprints of the same formations from before, psychic powers that other armies already had, and a super-over priced Special Character model.
It really does suck to play an NPC army.
My thought from that is that this is a quick fix for CSM / quick buck for GW, because they know that 8th is not too far off and don't want to bother writing more rules for 7th.
The next army to get the same treatment will hopefully be Nids. Their rules are all over the place, and could use consolidation in one book with a few other things thrown in (Genestealer Cult?)
Based on the blurb for Traitor's Hate, Blood Angels, Ad Mech, and Imperial Knights (wut?) are probably getting stuff next. Tyranids should get something, though I can't really see how.
GoatboyBeta wrote: IK are probably a combo formation or two with AM forces and/or renegades
I am kinda thinking the same thing. I am fully expecting a reprint of the War Convocation formation from White Dwarf. I still have my fingers crossed for something good coming to Blood Angels. Some Deep Strike Turn 1 or Assault out of Deep Strike would be very appreciated. I wouldn't mind getting scouting Baal Predators back.
That or they'll be like the SoB in the Baal campaign or the CSMs, Grey Knights and Dark Angels in the Fenris campaign; be in fluff only and get no rules.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: That or they'll be like the SoB in the Baal campaign or the CSMs, Grey Knights and Dark Angels in the Fenris campaign; be in fluff only and get no rules.
That is certainly a possibility I haven't ruled out. It certainly would fit with GW's behavior in regard to the Blood Angels.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: That or they'll be like the SoB in the Baal campaign or the CSMs, Grey Knights and Dark Angels in the Fenris campaign; be in fluff only and get no rules.
That is certainly a possibility I haven't ruled out. It certainly would fit with GW's behavior in regard to the Blood Angels.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So... rule reprints of the same formations from before, psychic powers that other armies already had, and a super-over priced Special Character model.
It really does suck to play an NPC army.
My thought from that is that this is a quick fix for CSM / quick buck for GW, because they know that 8th is not too far off and don't want to bother writing more rules for 7th.
It's basically a rules compendium for CSM than a major new thing. Angels of Death had a few original things, but was mostly new psychic powers, rules for the Calth Models taken from FW and limited to the options in the plastic kits, and chapter specific rules from Kauyon, Raukan, Sentinels of Terra, and Salamanders given one as well.
The next army to get the same treatment will hopefully be Nids. Their rules are all over the place, and could use consolidation in one book with a few other things thrown in (Genestealer Cult?)
I would be more surprised if Tyranids didn't get something for the "40k End Times".
Do we think Ahriman and his crew will be one of two factions in a box set or sold otherwise?
I really like the new sculpt and think the new 1000 sons will follow his look but hope I don't have to go in with someone or have to get rid of a second faction.
Skerr wrote: Do we think Ahriman and his crew will be one of two factions in a box set or sold otherwise?
I really like the new sculpt and think the new 1000 sons will follow his look but hope I don't have to go in with someone or have to get rid of a second faction.
30k sons will have a similar look. 40k version not so much
Skerr wrote: Do we think Ahriman and his crew will be one of two factions in a box set or sold otherwise?
I really like the new sculpt and think the new 1000 sons will follow his look but hope I don't have to go in with someone or have to get rid of a second faction.
It's probably 30k Ahriman from the rumoured Prospero themed Betrayal at Calth type box. By probably I mean Atia and Sad Panda have said it so it's almost certain. It'll be available separately at some point though.
The import duty into New Zealand on toys (including scale models) is 5%.
The mark up over UK is almost 100%.
Unless they're flying them out in hand luggage, it's difficult to justify based on import costs.
Once again. Well said. Must point out that his argument is even less solid when you consider that GW already sells comparable product to Kharn at about half the price in NZ. But then, this is the internet. Youll always find a few persons trying to defend the indefensible
A big mac in the UK is 3.2 sterling and 6 nzd. If a big mac is almost double and it's food with one of the biggest, most efficient distributors what hope do you think GW will have being less than double?
I'm not sure I understand your argument, since it seems to prove the exact opposite of what you are saying. 3.2 pounds is 5,83 NZD according to the current rate, so the difference is negligible (They big mac (6 nzd) is more expensive in NZ by about 3% compared to the UK). Kharn, on the other side, is 22 pounds (which by the current rate is 40,10 NZD) and they sell him for 75 nzd. So they overcharge by a whooping 87%. As you surely realise, there is a hell of a difference between 3% and 87%.
Amd we are talking about a miniature that is already way overpriced even in the UK (a few years ago, these clam pack characters were not even 10 pounds, and no, inflation was not nearly high enough to account for the difference)
godardc wrote: Calth's Space Marines were pretty neutral. If the Thousands Sons really look like this, they will sell less boxes.
But I do hope they look like this !
Not sure about that. I don't think they could make another generic box of 30k space marines and expect it to sale as much as the first HH box did. After the first box, I guess the market for generic 30k sm is a bit saturated
That is fantastic. Somehow I missed that this whole time. My Word Bearers are all in MK III (My favourite) but damn was it financially off-putting to think about expanding the infantry in the future.
what's supposed to be in the box besides space marines. Wasn't there supposed to be some sisters of silence and arbiters?
I'd be honestly surprised if some of the marines are not distinctively thousand sons. With Arihman in the box, it would be a bit weird if all the other marines are generic. But then, what do I know.
godardc wrote: Calth's Space Marines were pretty neutral. If the Thousands Sons really look like this, they will sell less boxes.
But I do hope they look like this !
I'm thinking the 2 characters will be specific and everything else will be generic.
Custodes... awesome. Looks like I will have to dive further into hh (I can't decide between which legion to play -al or soh. I prefered al but everyone plays them now.
I love that chaos is getting more love too. Love the new kharn. I am a bit dissapointed for dropping $185 on the le book only to hear there are no new formations in it (I hope this is wrong). I hope there is a new abaddon and new chaos books in the not too distant future.
Well there are formations. Whether they are any good is a different story. And possibly copying space marines powers and formations is setting a dangerous precedent.
FW makes upgrade kits for mk 2-4 for them with a mark 3 like head that is TS only
All of the TS heads that FW make are Mk IV. That said, the Achaean pattern helmets look dandy on Mk II/III. Pity Mk II armor is such a pain to work on if there's even slight mold slippage, and Mk III is only a little better in resin.
Well if we do get copies of the psychic powers we at least stand a much better chance of assaulting. I'll need a whole lot more sorcerers by the looks, khorne themed or not.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I haven't heard any rumours about relics. Didn't the other campaign books come with new relics too?
Eldarain wrote: I just want mobility. The 4th-5th paradigm tied to a mostly assault focused list is brutal.
run and charge, deep strike and charge, outflank and charge, transport alterations, something.
Hell yeah, gimme all o' that.
Hell I would be even glad If I only could charge 1W6 inches without extra attacks and initiative 1 but just let my units fething do something afer deepstriking.
Virules wrote: Can't believe people will start getting copies in 5 days and we have zero rules leaks so far! Only for Chaos of course haha.
Those recent leaks where never leaks in the first place. This is an deliberate GW strategy, to manage the hype. The question is why. Do they still want to protect some of the deathwatch hype, create a slow zone to build up the hype later on with more cool CSM releases or are the rules that bad that they want us to preorder without having seen them first.
Lol this isn't the end times this is just an other black crusade.
We now have the 40k End Times Campaign for about a year now
No we don't, we have been calling it the end times for over a year now. But this doesn't make it the end times does it. Do we really expect an WFB/AoS game changing move where tons of characters, factions get killed and the setting being slaughtered to the point of no return or do we just expect a cool black crusade style campaign with some thematic releases and perhaps a new edition at the end. My money is on the last one, this isn't the end times. This is just an other hyped up version of a black crusade, and that isn't a bad thing.
yeah moving forward. It did so the last black crusade. Moving forward isn't the same as look pretty stuff that could destroy the world.. oops it did, reality ends all your heroes die the end.
My guess is that the only characters being flunked into the hungry void are those who still have no plastic model and don't have enough sales to justify a new mold.
Automatically Appended Next Post: But hey who knows, I could be wrong. The emperor could die, the dragon could awake, the tau could dominate the universe and the orks could become mind controlled by eldrad. Just to be all eaten by the hungry tyranid mass. If such things happen I would gladly admit being wrong.
You can't have a not so end time end time.
That's like having a national world war.
If my works don't notice anything major outside perhaps a cool waagh led by a new warboss then it's not the end time. The story just being an other chapter in the human civilwar & the linked fall of the eldar is kinda business as usual. Daemon princes and human heroes come and go. Ths would be just another crusade, or whatever you call the campaign.
If my orks suddenly become entries in codex the old ones or are no longer o this plane then it's the end time
The biggest difference being that we are essentially 3-4 books into the End Times already narratively speaking. Plenty of narrative options which advance the story that don't Sigmar the setting.
One of the Orks or Tyranids in Octarius finally gain ascendancy and a new supplement for one or both comes out representing the unique and altered effects that long struggle had on both races.
Eldrads actions will almost certainly have an affect on the Eldar story moving forward. Wraith units in particular.
The Wulfen story could have some drastic effects on the Space Wolves place in the Imperium going forward.
The biggest question is how successful will Abaddon's latest foray be. Plenty of options to play with between Cadia, Ulthwe, the Marine chapters there and the Necron links on Cadia itself.
oldzoggy wrote: To put it in a space marine context do any of you guys actually believe that the upcoming campaign will dwarf the entire Horus herecy ?
oldzoggy wrote: To put it in a space marine context do any of you guys actually believe that the upcoming campaign will dwarf the entire Horus herecy ?
Allegedly there is going to be a Tau break out during next years global campaign. How reliable that part of the rumor mill is I don't know. Seems plausible with the plotline to invent a faster FTL drive than our current one which is slower than true warp drive.
If that happens you can bet gak will hit the fan for sure. One of the things slowing us down is two fold. One we have slower ships so it means we need a lot more of our forces dedicated to patrols and set up so they can quickly relay to hot spots where needed. Two the slower drive limits how far we can go in single leaps and overall expansion of the Empires borders since if we expand too far too fast without adequate supply chain we can over extend and its GG.
As a big Tau fan I can say that is a plausibility as well as some other stuff.
As for my dark kin I know there is that gate Vect is trying to protect and I think in lore rumors of some sort of dark wraithguard project or something. I don't know my DE lore as well as I would like. The Eldar wide plot to resurrect Yennead seems to have hit a snag so it remains to be seen where they will turn. Allegedly one shard of him escaped.
We all have heard solid rumors of primarchs returning. Could this get as big as the Horus Heresy? It could get bigger if the SIlent King wakes up and all the end game planes of the factions are put in motion. It might take the Prmiarchs to stave off the tide.
oldzoggy wrote: To put it in a space marine context do any of you guys actually believe that the upcoming campaign will dwarf the entire Horus herecy ?
GW has more resources than FW so if GW wants to they can. I think they are trying to do something as big as FW's Horus Heresy series. That series has really driven the single greatest increase in the purchase of models that GW and FW combined have seen since GW did Lord of the Rings. So GW has the means and motivation to make something bigger than the Heresy series has been. To that end GW will very likely try to make this new campaign fictionally as significant as the Heresy itself.
This type of narrative driven game play is what GW really wants to push, but I think the biggest challenge to it is that the players most interested in this type of play are already playing FW's Horus Heresy campaign setting.
I can't wait for the blueberries to try and reason with the Tyranids, only to get nommed on a little. Too bad what should happen in the fluff is all but impossible to execute in the game.
I really want the Tyranids to get a new Big Bug. Something on the order of a Wraithknight or Stormsurge in terms of power and cost.
You know what???? This is a good time to be a 40k fan and that's what matters. The setting has been dull as mist for ages and now GW are putting effort into making it good again. It may not go quickly but its shaping up to have a good run into the next edition. Obviously 8th edition will make or break GW. Time will tell
Sad Panda has implied that 8th will be quite different from 7th and that is a big reason why it has been campaign books instead of Codexes for some time now (Deathwatch being a welcome exception to the trend)
If it is the game's done. 7th has to be the worst set of rules ever produced by any company. A patch wont fix it. Needs a total reboot and GW know this. If they call it in again like 6th to 7th the damage would be irreparable
Biggest worry for me is, just how badly the new ruleset will feth over the current Heresy rules done by Forge World. I'd hate having to rebuy their red books yet again.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really want the Tyranids to get a new Big Bug. Something on the order of a Wraithknight or Stormsurge in terms of power and cost.
BrookM wrote: Biggest worry for me is, just how badly the new ruleset will feth over the current Heresy rules done by Forge World. I'd hate having to rebuy their red books yet again.
Yeah. That stung. I was just eyeing up the digital versions contemplating them in hopes they might offer the upgrade the way they did with Kill Team when an update comes.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really want the Tyranids to get a new Big Bug. Something on the order of a Wraithknight or Stormsurge in terms of power and cost.
Don't get too excited. It'd still be T6.
I'd still take it. Right now we have much less powerful for twice the cost. Anywhere close to equal on either front would be a huge improvement.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I can't wait for the blueberries to try and reason with the Tyranids, only to get nommed on a little. Too bad what should happen in the fluff is all but impossible to execute in the game.
I am pretty sure they have done that in the fluff, got nommed and decided not to do that again. They may be blue, but that doesn't mean they are stupid.
There is a very clear difference between attempting to befriend a species and arrange an agreement that is for the 'greater good' and being willfully stupid and climbing into a carnifex's mouth.
After any real interaction with the 'nids it is pretty clear that negotiation is off the table.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really want the Tyranids to get a new Big Bug. Something on the order of a Wraithknight or Stormsurge in terms of power and cost.
Don't get too excited. It'd still be T6.
That would be disappointing. Tyranid players (read: not me) deserve something better than that.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I really want the Tyranids to get a new Big Bug. Something on the order of a Wraithknight or Stormsurge in terms of power and cost.
Don't get too excited. It'd still be T6.
Don't be such a negative nancy! It will be T6 and have FNP whenever it succeds with "Howling Roar", a special rule that doesn't work against Fearless and ATSKNF, that will show them Orkz!
casvalremdeikun wrote: I can't wait for the blueberries to try and reason with the Tyranids, only to get nommed on a little. Too bad what should happen in the fluff is all but impossible to execute in the game.
I really want the Tyranids to get a new Big Bug. Something on the order of a Wraithknight or Stormsurge in terms of power and cost.
There are people who still think the Tau send peace offers to the orks and nids? They've begun to cease diplomatic contact with some races for obvious reasons. I can't wait for next years campaign. I'll have to bring my AAA game for the Farsight Enclaves (Tau).
casvalremdeikun wrote: I can't wait for the blueberries to try and reason with the Tyranids, only to get nommed on a little. Too bad what should happen in the fluff is all but impossible to execute in the game.
I really want the Tyranids to get a new Big Bug. Something on the order of a Wraithknight or Stormsurge in terms of power and cost.
There are people who still think the Tau send peace offers to the orks and nids? They've begun to cease diplomatic contact with some races for obvious reasons. I can't wait for next years campaign. I'll have to bring my AAA game for the Farsight Enclaves (Tau).
Tau have barely had any contact with nids, so why would they know to not try diplomacy? Literally the only race fluffwise Tau don't try and negotiate with is the Orks, for obvious reasons
Motograter wrote: You know what???? This is a good time to be a 40k fan and that's what matters. The setting has been dull as mist for ages and now GW are putting effort into making it good again. It may not go quickly but its shaping up to have a good run into the next edition. Obviously 8th edition will make or break GW. Time will tell
So this week we will hear about the new Supplement for Blood Angels, called Angel's Blade. It will involve Chaos Space Marines invasion on some planet (of course). 9 new formations, 2 new detachments as well as Death Company relics and tactical objectives, wargear upgrades and 3 new missions to top it all of.
New Blood Angel Termie Captain DC Chaplain and updates to Assault and Devastator squads.
Angels' Blade (supplement) - 30GBP / 39EUR
BA Death Company Strike Force - 80GBP / 105EUR
BA Archangels Orbital Intervention Force - 80GBP / 100EUR
BA Chapter Ancients - 65GBP / 80EUR
We will also get new boxes for Blood Angels Vanguard, Assault, Sternguard and Company Command.
Oh I can't wait to see the Dark Eldar end times release is. Rumor has it next year is also exodites. If DE get even a model or two I'll be happy. Even just formations and a part in the story. Something to give them a boost.
So this week we will hear about the new Supplement for Blood Angels, called Angel's Blade. It will involve Chaos Space Marines invasion on some planet (of course). 9 new formations, 2 new detachments as well as Death Company relics and tactical objectives, wargear upgrades and 3 new missions to top it all of.
New Blood Angel Termie Captain DC Chaplain and updates to Assault and Devastator squads.
Angels' Blade (supplement) - 30GBP / 39EUR
BA Death Company Strike Force - 80GBP / 105EUR
BA Archangels Orbital Intervention Force - 80GBP / 100EUR
BA Chapter Ancients - 65GBP / 80EUR
We will also get new boxes for Blood Angels Vanguard, Assault, Sternguard and Company Command.
So this week we will hear about the new Supplement for Blood Angels, called Angel's Blade. It will involve Chaos Space Marines invasion on some planet (of course). 9 new formations, 2 new detachments as well as Death Company relics and tactical objectives, wargear upgrades and 3 new missions to top it all of.
New Blood Angel Termie Captain DC Chaplain and updates to Assault and Devastator squads.
Angels' Blade (supplement) - 30GBP / 39EUR
BA Death Company Strike Force - 80GBP / 105EUR
BA Archangels Orbital Intervention Force - 80GBP / 100EUR
BA Chapter Ancients - 65GBP / 80EUR
We will also get new boxes for Blood Angels Vanguard, Assault, Sternguard and Company Command.
Well, feth. They might actually get some money out of me for my Blood Angels. Especially if the formations are actually good. At any rate, I will probably get Angel's Blade.
Now, I am curious if the updates to the Assault and Devastator Squads are going to be new kits or just updated rules. If it is new kits, PLEASE BE FRAG CANNON DEVASTATORS! If it is just new rules, Grav Cannons for Blood Angels Devastators confirmed! Which is great, because I only need to get one box of Devastators.
Apparently we will be getting Blood Angels Vanguard, Sternguard, Assault, and Company Command kits. More than likely, they will just be the standard kits with the Blood Angels Upgrade Sprues included. I am totally okay with that too. It worked well enough for the Deathwatch, so there is no point in reinventing the wheel.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Apparently we will be getting Blood Angels Vanguard, Sternguard, Assault, and Company Command kits. More than likely, they will just be the standard kits with the Blood Angels Upgrade Sprues included. I am totally okay with that too. It worked well enough for the Deathwatch, so there is no point in reinventing the wheel.
Don't get me wrong, this is good news. But instead of finally getting new models for csm, we get yet more marines......sigh. And GW know that their kits suck, otherwise they wouldn't resort to what amounts to false advertising on the maelstrom of gore cover art.
On the plus side, to me that means they are at least considering to give us all new wargear options in the new codex. I can't think of any other reason they would delay releasing new kits for so long.
A 136 page Warhammer 40.000 campaign supplement and update to the Codex: Blood Angels, detailing a Chaos Space Marine invasion of the Diamor System at the beginning of Abaddon’s 13th Black Crusade, from the Blood Angels perspective. This book contains lots of new rules to be used alongside the Blood Angels Codex. It contains 9 new formations and 2 powerful new Detachments, Death Company Relics, Death Company Tactical Objectives, revised Wargear of Baal section, 3 new Altar of War missions, new datasheets for the Blood Angel Terminator Captain, Death Company Chaplain and updated datasheets of the Assault Squad and Devastator Squad.
Will be £30.
Other Stuff:
B.A. Vanguard Veteran Squad £ 28.00
B.A Assault Squad £ 28.00
B.A. Sternguard Veteran Squad £ 33.00
B.A. Company Command £ 28.00
B.A. Death Company Strike Force £ 80.00
B.A. Archangels Orbital Intervention Force £ 80.00
B.A. Chapter Ancients £ 65.00
casvalremdeikun wrote: Apparently we will be getting Blood Angels Vanguard, Sternguard, Assault, and Company Command kits. More than likely, they will just be the standard kits with the Blood Angels Upgrade Sprues included. I am totally okay with that too. It worked well enough for the Deathwatch, so there is no point in reinventing the wheel.
Don't get me wrong, this is good news. But instead of finally getting new models for csm, we get yet more marines......sigh. And GW know that their kits suck, otherwise they wouldn't resort to what amounts to false advertising on the maelstrom of gore cover art.
On the plus side, to me that means they are at least considering to give us all new wargear options in the new codex. I can't think of any other reason they would delay releasing new kits for so long.
Well, it is Blood Angels, so just how good the material is going to be is debatable. I can almost assure you the majority of it is just reprinted stuff from the Exterminatus book. One of the bundles even has the name of an Exterminatus formation (Archangels Orbital Intervention Force). The Terminator Captain and Terminator Chaplain were released last year. And like I said, the "new" kits are probably just the standard kits with a Blood Angels Upgrade Sprue packed in. So beyond the book, nothing is actually new. And even then, the book is going to be a bunch of reprints.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I can't wait for the blueberries to try and reason with the Tyranids, only to get nommed on a little. Too bad what should happen in the fluff is all but impossible to execute in the game.
I really want the Tyranids to get a new Big Bug. Something on the order of a Wraithknight or Stormsurge in terms of power and cost.
There are people who still think the Tau send peace offers to the orks and nids? They've begun to cease diplomatic contact with some races for obvious reasons. I can't wait for next years campaign. I'll have to bring my AAA game for the Farsight Enclaves (Tau).
Tau have barely had any contact with nids, so why would they know to not try diplomacy? Literally the only race fluffwise Tau don't try and negotiate with is the Orks, for obvious reasons
The Tau Empire destroyed a whole tyranid have fleet... That's not "barely any contact" to me.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: So I guess that confirms it? New CSM release was plastic Kharn and that's it?
And a book! I don't think that is a for sure thing. We still could very well see a third volume to this. But I am not counting on it. BA are really just getting a book and some repacked kits, it seems.
Honestly, all I am hoping for is to get all the options that C:SM and DA share with BA, but with all of the options those two have added in. Like Grav Cannon Devastators and whatnot. I also want tank squadrons!
casvalremdeikun wrote: Apparently we will be getting Blood Angels Vanguard, Sternguard, Assault, and Company Command kits. More than likely, they will just be the standard kits with the Blood Angels Upgrade Sprues included. I am totally okay with that too. It worked well enough for the Deathwatch, so there is no point in reinventing the wheel.
Don't get me wrong, this is good news. But instead of finally getting new models for csm, we get yet more marines......sigh. And GW know that their kits suck, otherwise they wouldn't resort to what amounts to false advertising on the maelstrom of gore cover art.
On the plus side, to me that means they are at least considering to give us all new wargear options in the new codex. I can't think of any other reason they would delay releasing new kits for so long.
Well, it is Blood Angels, so just how good the material is going to be is debatable. I can almost assure you the majority of it is just reprinted stuff from the Exterminatus book. One of the bundles even has the name of an Exterminatus formation (Archangels Orbital Intervention Force). The Terminator Captain and Terminator Chaplain were released last year. And like I said, the "new" kits are probably just the standard kits with a Blood Angels Upgrade Sprue packed in. So beyond the book, nothing is actually new. And even then, the book is going to be a bunch of reprints.
I hear you. I don't play marines, but even I can see that blood angels get treated barely any better than csm these days. Only chapter can think of that gets shafted even harder might be black templar
Hopefully Vanguard Vets get a nice boost to make them a viable choice against Death Company, but I'm overjoyed with just formations to be honest, and probably tank squadrons.
BrookM wrote: But how can the Blood Angels be back in number when they've lost close to everything during the Shield of Baal campaign?
How about in M35 three quarters of the Chapter got lost in the Warp. But the Warp being a fickle thing spat them back out in the M41, but from the BA's perspective only a day has passed. As if by magic the BA's are now back up to full strength.
So this week we will hear about the new Supplement for Blood Angels, called Angel's Blade. It will involve Chaos Space Marines invasion on some planet (of course). 9 new formations, 2 new detachments as well as Death Company relics and tactical objectives, wargear upgrades and 3 new missions to top it all of.
New Blood Angel Termie Captain DC Chaplain and updates to Assault and Devastator squads.
Angels' Blade (supplement) - 30GBP / 39EUR
BA Death Company Strike Force - 80GBP / 105EUR
BA Archangels Orbital Intervention Force - 80GBP / 100EUR
BA Chapter Ancients - 65GBP / 80EUR
We will also get new boxes for Blood Angels Vanguard, Assault, Sternguard and Company Command.
Well, feth. They might actually get some money out of me for my Blood Angels. Especially if the formations are actually good. At any rate, I will probably get Angel's Blade.
Now, I am curious if the updates to the Assault and Devastator Squads are going to be new kits or just updated rules. If it is new kits, PLEASE BE FRAG CANNON DEVASTATORS! If it is just new rules, Grav Cannons for Blood Angels Devastators confirmed! Which is great, because I only need to get one box of Devastators.
I would not get your hopes up for Frag Cannons, but Grav would be a no brainier for GW to add.
I wish that GW would go the AOS style Grand Alliance books for the codex's and supplements. Cheap, softback and full to the brim of the relevant warscrolls (data sheets for 40k obviously). It does not feel like a long time since I shelled out for the BA codex upon its initial release and a lot of the changes (scouts, dreadnought extra attacks) we already know about.
Background and fiction could then go in a separate release.
So this week we will hear about the new Supplement for Blood Angels, called Angel's Blade. It will involve Chaos Space Marines invasion on some planet (of course). 9 new formations, 2 new detachments as well as Death Company relics and tactical objectives, wargear upgrades and 3 new missions to top it all of.
New Blood Angel Termie Captain DC Chaplain and updates to Assault and Devastator squads.
Angels' Blade (supplement) - 30GBP / 39EUR
BA Death Company Strike Force - 80GBP / 105EUR
BA Archangels Orbital Intervention Force - 80GBP / 100EUR
BA Chapter Ancients - 65GBP / 80EUR
We will also get new boxes for Blood Angels Vanguard, Assault, Sternguard and Company Command.
Well, feth. They might actually get some money out of me for my Blood Angels. Especially if the formations are actually good. At any rate, I will probably get Angel's Blade.
Now, I am curious if the updates to the Assault and Devastator Squads are going to be new kits or just updated rules. If it is new kits, PLEASE BE FRAG CANNON DEVASTATORS! If it is just new rules, Grav Cannons for Blood Angels Devastators confirmed! Which is great, because I only need to get one box of Devastators.
I would not get your hopes up for Frag Cannons, but Grav would be a no brainier for GW to add.
Oh I know. A man can dream though. And it isn't like man-portable Frag Cannons don't exist. But I am still going to make a Grav Cannon Dev Squad for sure.
That moment when BA are getting more stuff than CSMs in a campaign series about the Black Crusade.
Fething typical.
At least this means people can't say CSMs are better than BA and are more loved by GeeDubs... Ah who am I kidding they'll say it anyway while they blast us to bits with their new Grav Cannons just because they aren't mounted on Centurions.
SicSemperTyrannis wrote: From what I constantly read people complain about grav all the time. So could someone please complete the following sentence for me?
Having more grav in the game is good because _____________ .
BA will still pay more for practically everything than their C:SM and DA counterparts, so it isn't like we are getting a huge boost. And reprinted formations are hardly a great addition.
SicSemperTyrannis wrote: From what I constantly read people complain about grav all the time. So could someone please complete the following sentence for me?
Having more grav in the game is good because _____________ .
Because it's close to the word gravy?
I'm glad to see the void generator back, hopefully for a lot longer than the last time... thing got up to crazy prices on ebay.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: I wish that GW would go the AOS style Grand Alliance books for the codex's and supplements. Cheap, softback and full to the brim of the relevant warscrolls (data sheets for 40k obviously). It does not feel like a long time since I shelled out for the BA codex upon its initial release and a lot of the changes (scouts, dreadnought extra attacks) we already know about.
Background and fiction could then go in a separate release.
Two questions for you.
Would you buy an expensive supplement that included both fluff and rules. If those rules where good / "needed" for your army ?
Would you buy the campaign fluff book if there was no rules in them when it was priced the same as the rules only campaign book with good /"needed" rules for your army ?
Of only the first is yes then you know why GW doesn't sell the second option.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: That moment when BA are getting more stuff than CSMs in a campaign series about the Black Crusade.
Fething typical.
At least this means people can't say CSMs are better than BA and are more loved by GeeDubs... Ah who am I kidding they'll say it anyway while they blast us to bits with their new Grav Cannons just because they aren't mounted on Centurions.
In what universe is BA getting more here? They are getting a book and some repacked kits (confirmed by Atia). That's it. CSM is getting Khârn. While not much, it is more than BA is getting.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: That moment when BA are getting more stuff than CSMs in a campaign series about the Black Crusade.
Fething typical.
At least this means people can't say CSMs are better than BA and are more loved by GeeDubs... Ah who am I kidding they'll say it anyway while they blast us to bits with their new Grav Cannons just because they aren't mounted on Centurions.
In what universe is BA getting more here? They are getting a book and some repacked kits (confirmed by Atia). That's it. CSM is getting Khârn. While not much, it is more than BA is getting.
You are getting more new packing material and box covers!!!
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: I wish that GW would go the AOS style Grand Alliance books for the codex's and supplements. Cheap, softback and full to the brim of the relevant warscrolls (data sheets for 40k obviously). It does not feel like a long time since I shelled out for the BA codex upon its initial release and a lot of the changes (scouts, dreadnought extra attacks) we already know about.
Background and fiction could then go in a separate release.
Two questions for you.
Would you buy an expensive supplement that included both fluff and rules. If those rules where good / "needed" for your army ?
Would you buy the campaign fluff book if there was no rules in them when it was priced the same as the rules only campaign book with good /"needed" rules for your army ?
Of only the first is yes then you know why GW doesn't sell the second option.
Or they could transition to the AoS format and there are rules but they are literally for the campain setting and all pointed formations and units are strictly kept to battletomes. And those books seem to get bought. Lord knows I started buying the gw ones not because of rules but because of plot advancement. AND I'm primarily a tournament player and not a narrative player.
The only thing CSMs gets more of it Formations (11 to 9), however BA also get a 2nd Detachment, relics, new wargear, and 2 'new' units (Terminator Captain technically isn't new, but the DC Chaplain is).
The only thing CSMs get that BA don't is 4 'new' Disciplines... that BA had access to RAI before-hand.
Also this is what... the 4th set of Relics for BA (including the ones in their codex already) and the second set of Tactical Objectives?
You're getting more rules, and splash repacks is better than Kharn given how expensive he is. While they aren't new, it's more releases than CSMs are getting.
If it turns out that there's a 3rd part with more CSM stuff, I'll shut my mouth after admitting I was wrong and too hasty. Until then though BAs look to be getting the better deal out of the major CSM campaign.
The only thing CSMs gets more of it Formations (11 to 9), however BA also get a 2nd Detachment, relics, new wargear, and 2 'new' units (Terminator Captain technically isn't new, but the DC Chaplain is).
The only thing CSMs get that BA don't is 4 'new' Disciplines... that BA had access to RAI before-hand.
Also this is what... the 4th set of Relics for BA (including the ones in their codex already) and the second set of Tactical Objectives?
You're getting more rules, and splash repacks is better than Kharn given how expensive he is. While they aren't new, it's more releases than CSMs are getting.
If it turns out that there's a 3rd part with more CSM stuff, I'll shut my mouth after admitting I was wrong and too hasty. Until then though BAs look to be getting the better deal out of the major CSM campaign.
Time to keep your word
Because not only Is the csm book bigger with more new formations
And new powers but they also have new relics not just for traitors hate but also for the renegade knight.
There are no new models for ba the DC chaplain already exists. And with 4+ supplments for chaos I wouldn't be claiming a BA have more relics.
There are two detschments (yippee) which can only ever use one of. And even with that extra detschment your still less than the csm supplements 11+1
So how are BA getting more rules again?
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: So I guess that confirms it? New CSM release was plastic Kharn and that's it?
You almost sound surprised. I can see how Black Crusade releases will go now.
Non-Imperial release -> Space Marine release -> Non-Imperial release -> Space Marine release -> Non-Imperial release -> Brand new unit/army designed to be allied with Space Marines -> Space Marine release -> Non-Imperial release.
Maybe Imperial Guard will get something, but I'm not holding my breath.
There's no CSM relics in this Campaign... only Renegade Knights are getting relics.
CSMs only have 2 Supplements, so that's 3 lists of Relics total.
Last I checked the BA codex didn't have any generic DC Chaplains, just Chaplains. New rules there. Model might not be new but the rules are.
2 potential Decurions (1 is definitely a Decurion) is better than 1 Decurion. Even if the 2nd detachment isn't Decurion-style, it'll give more choice than the 2 Formation CSMs get.
You can complain about repacks all you want, but it's still 6 more model releases than CSMs are getting, even if they aren't new models. That's like saying Deathwatch only got 3 model releases because everything else was repacks.
The only thing CSMs gets more of it Formations (11 to 9), however BA also get a 2nd Detachment, relics, new wargear, and 2 'new' units (Terminator Captain technically isn't new, but the DC Chaplain is).
The only thing CSMs get that BA don't is 4 'new' Disciplines... that BA had access to RAI before-hand.
Also this is what... the 4th set of Relics for BA (including the ones in their codex already) and the second set of Tactical Objectives?
You're getting more rules, and splash repacks is better than Kharn given how expensive he is. While they aren't new, it's more releases than CSMs are getting.
If it turns out that there's a 3rd part with more CSM stuff, I'll shut my mouth after admitting I was wrong and too hasty. Until then though BAs look to be getting the better deal out of the major CSM campaign.
Time to keep your word
Because not only Is the csm book bigger with more new formations
And new powers but they also have new relics not just for traitors hate but also for the renegade knight.
There are no new models for ba the DC chaplain already exists. And with 4+ supplments for chaos I wouldn't be claiming a BA have more relics.
There are two detschments (yippee) which can only ever use one of. And even with that extra detschment your still less than the csm supplements 11+1
So how are BA getting more rules again?
You sure about the new relics thing? I see the product description says relics for Renegade Knights, but nothing for CSM is mentioned.
Not a competition thing, I hope BA get lots of good stuff, but I'd love for you to be right about CSM relics. It's just the first I've heard/read of it,
FW has been futureproofing the latest red books so not sure if you can read new rules into that but can see more adaptability to a less cumbersome ruleset.
Although, I'm not exactly crying with the amount of money I have now...
I saw an interesting article from natfka (bleh) but looks to be promising, if only a band aid on a much bigger problem (external and the codex itself). I'll keep an eye on it, but I'm not overly optimistic about it.
Well as a long time player of Blood Angels and one who still plays using the awesome 2014 codex, I'd like to express my preemptive joy at whatever goodies this new book contains, when I play it against my equally gleeful friend who will use his CSM and the goodies in his awesome new book
Perhaps the BA unleashed ALL the Death Company? (I.E including the ones locked up in the tower and perhaps some drafted from Successor Chapters)
Hench why they have the Strength to fight Chaos after Ghazghull Armageddon 2: Electric Boogaloo and Shield of Baal
Why are people even comparing CSM to BA anyway? Apples to oranges... BA is only a single chapter. A more accurate comparison would be Black Legion to BA, or Crimson Slaughter to BA.
FoxPhoenix135 wrote: Why are people even comparing CSM to BA anyway? Apples to oranges... BA is only a single chapter. A more accurate comparison would be Black Legion to BA, or Crimson Slaughter to BA.
Because that doesn't make sense since BA is a seperate codex that doesn't use any rules from the space marine codex because that's still considered a completely different codex. This is like saying dark eldar are the same as eldar.
Furthermore poor csm such a bad army it only got 2nd place at NoVa. Where was the closest BA army?
FoxPhoenix135 wrote: Why are people even comparing CSM to BA anyway? Apples to oranges... BA is only a single chapter. A more accurate comparison would be Black Legion to BA, or Crimson Slaughter to BA.
Because that doesn't make sense since BA is a seperate codex that doesn't use any rules from the space marine codex because that's still considered a completely different codex. This is like saying dark eldar are the same as eldar.
Furthermore poor csm such a bad army it only got 2nd place at NoVa. Where was the closest BA army?
So someone at the ultra high end of competitive Warhammer has made a very specific list to do a very specific thing and suddenly CSM are all good? (I don't even know what the list is)
It would be nice if the post could be kept to useful content instead of back and forth on who is the "poor" army.
FoxPhoenix135 wrote: Why are people even comparing CSM to BA anyway? Apples to oranges... BA is only a single chapter. A more accurate comparison would be Black Legion to BA, or Crimson Slaughter to BA.
Because that doesn't make sense since BA is a seperate codex that doesn't use any rules from the space marine codex because that's still considered a completely different codex. This is like saying dark eldar are the same as eldar.
Furthermore poor csm such a bad army it only got 2nd place at NoVa. Where was the closest BA army?
So someone at the ultra high end of competitive Warhammer has made a very specific list to do a very specific thing and suddenly CSM are all good? (I don't even know what the list is)
It would be nice if the post could be kept to useful content instead of back and forth on who is the "poor" army.
Actually, I'm fairly certain that the second place wasn't CSM at all, but Renegades and Heretics from IA:13...
The only thing CSMs gets more of it Formations (11 to 9), however BA also get a 2nd Detachment, relics, new wargear, and 2 'new' units (Terminator Captain technically isn't new, but the DC Chaplain is).
The only thing CSMs get that BA don't is 4 'new' Disciplines... that BA had access to RAI before-hand.
Also this is what... the 4th set of Relics for BA (including the ones in their codex already) and the second set of Tactical Objectives?
You're getting more rules, and splash repacks is better than Kharn given how expensive he is. While they aren't new, it's more releases than CSMs are getting.
If it turns out that there's a 3rd part with more CSM stuff, I'll shut my mouth after admitting I was wrong and too hasty. Until then though BAs look to be getting the better deal out of the major CSM campaign.
DC Chaplain already exists. It is the Jump Pack Chaplain with an Inferno Pistol with the winged Jump Pack. So literally nothing new. And your bundles include stuff like a free Daemon Prince. Based on the bundles coming, I would not be surprised in the least if the formations for BA are reprints of the Exterminatus book. One of the formations, the Archangels Orbital Intervention Force is from that book. Others likely will be as well. The BA relic lists are only three relics besides the codex, so as of right now we only have 12 relics, only 9 of which can ever be used by one army.
So no, we are not getting more rules, we are getting old rules repackaged. The Death Company Strike Force is probably one of the only new formations. And we are getting no new models. So it is a net win for Chaos.
Are you actually concluding from the fact that they're doing a bundle for a formation from Exterminatus that all/most of the content in this new book will just be reprinted from Exterminatus?
Because that seems like a bit of a leap? You may turn out to be right but isn't it just speculation?
Bull0 wrote: Are you actually concluding from the fact that they're doing a bundle for a formation from Exterminatus that all/most of the content in this new book will just be reprinted from Exterminatus?
Because that seems like a bit of a leap? You may turn out to be right but isn't it just speculation?
Um that's exactly what every chaos person posting here actually did based off the web bundles and considering they know nothing about the formations in the chaos supplement and even less about the BA dex.
Bull0 wrote: Are you actually concluding from the fact that they're doing a bundle for a formation from Exterminatus that all/most of the content in this new book will just be reprinted from Exterminatus?
Because that seems like a bit of a leap? You may turn out to be right but isn't it just speculation?
Not every formation, but several will probably be pulled from that book. I am not complaining about that either. I don't have Exterminatus. Several of thone formations are pretty good(need errata though).
That Bezerker formation is actually pretty good. +3 to charge and Fleet are the kind of bonuses Zerkers need. The Red Rain is pretty brutal too. Unfortunately, 4-8 units of Bezerkers is a bit of a heavy tax.
These formations are pretty average-tier in terms of useability. That Decurion is pretty awful though, from my first glance. A free Chaos Boon each turn? Really? 400pts of free Rhinos is equal to a free Chaos Boon.. and it's not even Ob. Sec?
Edit: I guess the Chaos Warband core detatchment is Ob. sec.. so there is that.
Roknar wrote: so what's new with kharn? he looks the same to me?
Yeah, there are no changes to his stats. I was really hoping that there would be a way to use him in KDK. A lot of the formations really don't look that terrible. Not stellar. But some of them have pretty good benefits. Assault out of Deep Strike is good and Fleet+3" for Zerkers is pretty nice too.
In case that wasn't already mentioned, the Chapter Ancient bundle is a box of 3 Dreadnoughts (which I believe are 3 Furiosos). So they are at quite a discount for the people who really are into Dreadnoughts.
The decorian is free hatred and veterans of long war for all and reroll warlord trait.
And choose any model with champion of chaos rule each turn and roll on the chaos boon table and that model keeps the result for the rest of the game.
It's egh but it's fairly flexible since the core choice of lost and damned isn't bad with being cheap and able to respawn each time it dies on a 4+.
But what does maelstrom of gore core choice get?
rollawaythestone wrote: These formations are pretty average-tier in terms of useability. That Decurion is pretty awful though, from my first glance. A free Chaos Boon each turn? Really? 400pts of free Rhinos is equal to a free Chaos Boon.. and it's not even Ob. Sec?
Edit: I guess the Chaos Warband core detatchment is Ob. sec.. so there is that.
Free veterans of long war does save quite a bit of points depending on your lists.
Roknar wrote: so what's new with kharn? he looks the same to me?
Yeah, there are no changes to his stats. I was really hoping that there would be a way to use him in KDK. A lot of the formations really don't look that terrible. Not stellar. But some of them have pretty good benefits. Assault out of Deep Strike is good and Fleet+3" for Zerkers is pretty nice too.
Kharn is immune to Insta death from force is that new?
Core choices
Cults respawning on 4+ is good
Beserkers with +3 move and fleet and double assault phase just for zerkers is good
The chaos warband is a bit more points but it's not bad in the decorian either since it gives 2 rolls each turn on the boon table that are until end of game and every model is obj secured and you can swap out alms it every named character into the formation. It's almost not worth taking this formation outside the decorian because what's the point you only gain more?
Auxilary
Raptor wing allowing to deep strike and charge is great with free jump pack on lord and reducing leadership is good.
3 demon engines with 1 having 4+ invul (3+ with demon rule) other 2 having rage, and all 3 being able to use demo forge 2x is nice.
Why the hell aren't Veterans of the Legions a core choice for the Black Crusade detachment when the Maelstrom is?
I was all set to say how this isn't SO bad and at least you can make a fluffy legion force with the Crusade detachment when I noticed the little crossed swords and all hope for my army died.
Oh well, guess we wait for the rest of the Crusade books now...hopefully the Renegade Knights give us something to look forward to
jifel wrote: So leaked formations is good to see, even if most of them are meh. But, where are those leaked psychic powers at...?
There is a few stinkers but majority formation rules are solid.
Charge after deepstrike
Respawn entire unit on 4+
Fleet and +3 to charge with double assault for a turn
3+ invul on demon engine with 2x demonforge a game
Obj secured on every model with double boons that you choose which to keep each turn and that last until end of game.
These are some of the best formation rules most armies get.
Those are blurry on my phone. I must ask for someone to type this out or a link to someone that types this out!
- Kharn: no change as far as I can tell
- maelstrom of gore:
Kharn/chaos lord (free MoK)+ 4-8 units of zerkers
They get +3 charge range and fleet and once per game (basically) get to to attack twice while the opponent only gets to fight back once.
- Black crusade detachement Command: 1 lord/sorc/prince ( can be special chars)
Core:
either Chaos warband/maelstrom of gore/lost and the damned
Aux: everything else
Reroll warlord trait in VANILLA ONLY
free hatred(armies of imperium) and VotLW Every turn 1 character gets a free roll on the boons table
-Chaos warband:
1 lord (can be special)
0-1 sorc (can be special)
1-5 chosen/termies/possessed
2-6 marines
1-3 raptors/talons/bikes
1-3 havocs/helbrutes
obsec and they get to roll twice on the table (inlcuding the free roll)
- trinity of blood:
3 lords of skulls
rampage
free S6/AP4 hits on units that are locked with them ( 1 hit per model in the affected unit)
twinlinked if you shoot at the same target
- Favoured of Chaos:
1 prince + 3-5 possessed
The possessed get all mutations at the start of the fight sub-phase if within 12 of the prince.
- raptor talon::
1 lord (free jump pack but not optional)+3-5 Raptors/talons
can charge after deepstrike (disordered)
enemies charged by two or more subtract 2 leadership until end of turn.
- Fist of the gods :
1 warpspith + 3-5 predators/vindicators/land raiders
6++ within 12 of the smith
+1 to repair roll (for those in the formation)
- Cult of destruction :
1-3 warpsmiths + 3-5 oblits/mutilators
you basically get to frontload the damage by shooting/attacking twice in a turn. each smith needs to buff a different unit.
- heldrake terror pack :
2-4 drakes
enemies within 12 of 2/3/4 drakes suffer 1/2/3 leadership pen
Vector strikes against pinned/falling back/ gone to ground units now take D6 S7/AP2 instead.
- Hellforged Warpack :
1 smith + 3-5 hellbrutes/defilers/fiends
get to use daemon forge 3 times
one can be named alpha and becomes a character and gains a 4++. If it dies the rest get rage.
- the lost and the damned :
1 apostle + 4-9 cultists
they come back on a 4+ and get to outflank (when they return on a 4+ only)
6" aoe zealot from the apostle (only for the cultists and him)
And finally updated vindicators and preds. They can squadron up to 3 and as long as all 3 are alive:
vinds get the same apoc blast.
preds get tank hunter and monster hunter. No D for us.
Oh and theres also a terminator annihilation force, veterans of the legion (cult troops) and spawn but those don't have any dataslates in that leak
So basically if you have two Warpsmiths two Obliterator squads shoot twice. That definitely helps with their giant cost.
Outside of that the Objective Secured is nice and every character rolling twice on the boon table isn't a bad thing. I like regular CSM more than Tactical Marines so I'll take it at least once to try. Also cool that Heldrakes got partially fixed.
Maulerfiends gaining rage easily is so awesome.
There's potential here but it is still worse than the top 4 codices. My guess is that some formations will pop up for sure. Especially the 5 Maulerfiends!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the fact there's no way to get Plague Marines in here is garbage to me. Oh well.
My guess is Veterans of the Legions is like the drone formation in the Tau codex. Zero dataslate, but just lets you take them. That way GW can be like, see, you can take a cult troop.
I want to stick with the BL warband, but the option of special chars and ObSec is too good to pass up compared to pseudo preferred enemy. Not to mention you actually get to benefit from these rolls due the detachment.
Not so sure about the pack gaining rage easily. They're not a squadron after all. Still a pretty decent formation. Especially if we get the ability to give power of the machine spirit to a defiler.
I'll probably still stick to a CAD though, just so I can get my FW fix. Any chance of them updating IA13 to work with this?
This makes chaos marines a viable mid tier army now. I think they can all finally shut up until the Dark Eldar get some love. Please. Or must you whine for another 10,000 years?
At any rate I'm happy you finally got something good. You don't even have the rumored primarch yet either. The poor IG also need some love and orks now too.
Gamgee wrote: This makes chaos marines a viable mid tier army now. I think they can all finally shut up until the Dark Eldar get some love. Please. Or must you whine for another 10,000 years?
At any rate I'm happy you finally got something good. You don't even have the rumored primarch yet either. The poor IG also need some love and orks now too.
Seriously people moaning about Chaos players moaning (or any other army) is just as annoying. Lots of armies need sorting out, the game as a whole is all over the place. Lots of armies have reason to moan.
FoxPhoenix135 wrote: Why are people even comparing CSM to BA anyway? Apples to oranges... BA is only a single chapter. A more accurate comparison would be Black Legion to BA, or Crimson Slaughter to BA.
Because that doesn't make sense since BA is a seperate codex that doesn't use any rules from the space marine codex because that's still considered a completely different codex. This is like saying dark eldar are the same as eldar.
Furthermore poor csm such a bad army it only got 2nd place at NoVa. Where was the closest BA army?
What was the list? I guarantee there's few or any actual Chaos Marines, probably just Daemons/KDK with probably a CS detachment or a BL detachment for the Cabal. that doesn't mean gak since virtually every Chaos list you see has barely any actual marines in it.
FoxPhoenix135 wrote: Why are people even comparing CSM to BA anyway? Apples to oranges... BA is only a single chapter. A more accurate comparison would be Black Legion to BA, or Crimson Slaughter to BA.
Because that doesn't make sense since BA is a seperate codex that doesn't use any rules from the space marine codex because that's still considered a completely different codex. This is like saying dark eldar are the same as eldar.
Furthermore poor csm such a bad army it only got 2nd place at NoVa. Where was the closest BA army?
What was the list? I guarantee there's few or any actual Chaos Marines, probably just Daemons/KDK with probably a CS detachment or a BL detachment for the Cabal. that doesn't mean gak since virtually every Chaos list you see has barely any actual marines in it.
From what I've seen it was a Renegade Artillery army.
FoxPhoenix135 wrote: Why are people even comparing CSM to BA anyway? Apples to oranges... BA is only a single chapter. A more accurate comparison would be Black Legion to BA, or Crimson Slaughter to BA.
Because that doesn't make sense since BA is a seperate codex that doesn't use any rules from the space marine codex because that's still considered a completely different codex. This is like saying dark eldar are the same as eldar.
Furthermore poor csm such a bad army it only got 2nd place at NoVa. Where was the closest BA army?
What was the list? I guarantee there's few or any actual Chaos Marines, probably just Daemons/KDK with probably a CS detachment or a BL detachment for the Cabal. that doesn't mean gak since virtually every Chaos list you see has barely any actual marines in it.
From what I've seen it was a Renegade Artillery army.
Ah yes I forgot about that one, the one spamming the Rapier weapons?
Anyways, I am unsure how to react to the leaks. They don't look terrible? But don't look good, although Raptors charging on deep strike is HUGE (I know that much) and I think from what I saw, the Warband gives EVERYTHING Obsec so that's good too I think. I also hav not actually played a game... can I get a brief overview from someone more experienced, does this make CSM (as in running actual CSMs not Cultist spam) a viable midrange army? As a fluff player that's all I want, to run a fluffy CSM force focused on Marines and not get my butt handed to me by default.
rollawaythestone wrote: I don't see how it gives everything in the decurion Ob Sec. It says "All units in a Chaos Warband.."
That's what I meant, sorry. it says everything in the Chaos Warband detachment (or is that a formation? Sorry unsure of terminology) gets Obsec, which would mean Raptors/havocs/bikes/terminators etc. not just the regular Marines.
At glance this doesn't look bad. The Warband looks nice the Decurion (that's the Black Crusade force I guess) is nice with free VotLW. Seems like a good way to do a fluffy Black Legion type of force. Shame no legion tactics, but really was not expecting that. I just hope that it makes the actual MARINES a viable midtier army, not the normal stuff we see with cultist spam and then daemon allies to do the real work.
It is a mid range army now. I can easily see myself making some builds out of formations here if needed. It won't be the army that shakes the ITC to its knees though outside of some possible niche allies shenanigans.
However if your not a very good player of the game in the first place then no amount of special rules or super op units will let you win. Just a broad warning to those who think they are better than they are that if you don't do well with this instantly its probably not the army anymore but your skill level.
It's good advice for any player of any army. You don't improve your game by getting mad at the army and rules. You get better by rationally thinking through how you can do better. Maybe they do have the better army maybe not. You need to evaluate your losses to see what your doing wrong and to fix the problem.
Then again most people are about as effective at self evaluation as a wet sponge for picking up water.
A Kytan Daemon Engine of Khorne may be used as a Lords of War choice in an army chosen from either the Chaos Space Marines, Khorne Daemonkin or Chaos Daemons Factions. When taken in a Khorne Daemonkin army, the Kytan Daemon Engine has the Blood for the Blood God! special rule (see Codex: Khorne Daemonkin). In addition, it may be selected instead of a Khorne Lord of Skulls in any Detachment where such a war machine is available.
Gamgee wrote: It's good advice for any player of any army. You don't improve your game by getting mad at the army and rules. You get better by rationally thinking through how you can do better. Maybe they do have the better army maybe not. You need to evaluate your losses to see what your doing wrong and to fix the problem.
Then again most people are about as effective at self evaluation as a wet sponge for picking up water.
Normally would agree but in 40k there are clearly disparate power levels. Skill can only go so far when you're playing at a severe disadvantage out of the game.
Anyways, it sounds like this supplment isn't the saving grace of Chaos (not that I think anyone thought it would be) but it's some good buffs to bring the army up a bit? That's all I need. I'm still torn between KDK or CSM but this book may help swing it towards what I really want which is a nice, fluffy Black Legion type of list that focuses on CSM, some daemon engines, no cult troops and some vehicles maybe.
I think this will be a situation where two would be better than three. With three you have too much of your army invested in so few units. With two you have enough to get some other stuff.
Edit
It is true there are, but high skill can make all the difference sometimes. Too often I see unskilled players with terrible armies playing against armies that are only marginally better than theirs and they claim their army is the worst and needs buffs. It irks me.
ashikenshin wrote: Does anyone know if you can take Crimson Slaughter relics with these formations?
Also, really like the raptor formation. The models look really cool and now they are a bit usable.
Also interested in this because Crimson slaughter Possessed would be fething dope. 3++ beasts with shrouded and rending are actually pretty darn good I'd say.
The way the formation is worded (mutations from their table instead of "vessels of chaos table") seems like it's intended to work with both tables.
ashikenshin wrote: Does anyone know if you can take Crimson Slaughter relics with these formations?
Also, really like the raptor formation. The models look really cool and now they are a bit usable.
Also interested in this because Crimson slaughter Possessed would be fething dope. 3++ beasts with shrouded and rending are actually pretty darn good I'd say.
The way the formation is worded (mutations from their table instead of "vessels of chaos table") seems like it's intended to work with both tables.
I was thinking the same thing. I just wonder exactly how you'd make it happen. I guess they would just have 1 result until the combat phase of the first turn (assuming they're close enough to the DP)?
Sure you can, but it only works once you're in combat (fight sub-phase) so it's not as good as you think. Still, it amounts to free storm shields in combat. Throw in a cursed earth and they have a 2++ in combat.
ashikenshin wrote: Does anyone know if you can take Crimson Slaughter relics with these formations?
Also, really like the raptor formation. The models look really cool and now they are a bit usable.
Also interested in this because Crimson slaughter Possessed would be fething dope. 3++ beasts with shrouded and rending are actually pretty darn good I'd say.
The way the formation is worded (mutations from their table instead of "vessels of chaos table") seems like it's intended to work with both tables.
I was thinking the same thing. I just wonder exactly how you'd make it happen. I guess they would just have 1 result until the combat phase of the first turn (assuming they're close enough to the DP)?
The Daemon Prince would clearly need wings and MoN to keep him alive. He wouldn't be that dangerous and would mostly exist as a tarpit.
Throwing a boon on a daemon prince each turns sounds great.
Still no way to get berserkers to their target well. Even with fleet and +3 inches to charge.. they're still just as easy to pick off long before they reach their targets.
The only hope is that maybe the raptor talons or scouting flesh hounds could distract the enemy.
Gordon Shumway wrote: Running 3 Kytan in the trinity of blood formation is going to be utterly brutal.
It certainly would be if you could actually do that.
According to the Kytan rules, you can.
"A Kytan Daemon Engine of Khorne may be used as a Lords of War choice in an army chosen from either the Chaos Space Marines, Khorne Daemonkin or Chaos Daemons Factions. When taken in a Khorne Daemonkin army, the Kytan Daemon Engine has the Blood for the Blood God! special rule (see Codex: Khorne Daemonkin). In addition, it may be selected instead of a Khorne Lord of Skulls in any Detachment where such a war machine is available."
Roknar wrote: Sure you can, but it only works once you're in combat (fight sub-phase) so it's not as good as you think. Still, it amounts to free storm shields in combat. Throw in a cursed earth and they have a 2++ in combat.
Technically the fight sub-phase takes place, even if there are not motions to be done during the phase itself. So they don't have to be in close combat for the formation benefit to take effect.
Roknar wrote: Sure you can, but it only works once you're in combat (fight sub-phase) so it's not as good as you think. Still, it amounts to free storm shields in combat. Throw in a cursed earth and they have a 2++ in combat.
Technically the fight sub-phase takes place, even if there are not motions to be done during the phase itself. So they don't have to be in close combat for the formation benefit to take effect.
I was looking through the BRB to find the words to that effect, as I could have sworn I read that at some point. Is it on a specific page, or just commonly understood or somesuch?
I'm increasingly convinced 
Anyways enough of Tau I can't wait to show that redeployment pick to my 
Let's see how the books look and what is actually to be released over the next weeks and few months.
