A Kytan Daemon Engine of Khorne may be used as a Lords of War choice in an army chosen from either the Chaos Space Marines, Khorne Daemonkin or Chaos Daemons Factions. When taken in a Khorne Daemonkin army, the Kytan Daemon Engine has the Blood for the Blood God! Special rule (see Codex: Khorne Daemonkin). In addition, it may be selected instead of a Khorne Lord of Skulls in any Detachment where such a war machine is available.
What about the formations of the black legion suplement which came out a few months ago ( cyclopia cabal for example)
And what artefacts we use? (black legion, crimson or chaos space marine codex?
Thanks if some one can answer
Everything works as normal. You can use any supplement you want. The only thing you have to be mindful of is that this detachment doesn't let you reroll on the supplement warlord trait table. With the new free VotLW this supplement is pretty much DLC for the Black Legion supplement lol.
It's no different than using the supplement normally. You can still use the supplement formations. They won't benefit from the command benefits of this new detachment of course.
The thing I kind of dislike about this detachment is the amount of character you need to take. Fluffwise it kinda works but assuming you take a warband and hell forge pack, that's at least 2 lords and a warpsmith for a minimal configuration. And I'm almost certain that you really want a psyker or two with the new powers which adds another one or two. All of which are only useful after about 100 points. So even with a very rough estimate, that's a whopping 500 points before considering any units. It adds up quite fast.
I'd feel more comfortable if the lord provided more synergy with the army with this detachment. In a CAD it works because of the troop unlocks, but here they feel a bit underwhelming in that regard.
If you read the fuzzy fine print, in the warband, all named characters can be substituted in for the chaos lord. in the command detachment thingy, its the same thing. ahriman in place of sorcerers.
Humm, what are the chances of some updated datasheets with new points in the book? Probably not everything, but perhaps just a few real fixer-ups like the lord of skulls, defiler, etc. They did it in the Fenris campaign book.
buddha wrote: Humm, what are the chances of some updated datasheets with new points in the book? Probably not everything, but perhaps just a few real fixer-ups like the lord of skulls, defiler, etc. They did it in the Fenris campaign book.
I had hoped for that as well,but I think that would be too much to hope for.
The codex update thing does not make financial sense for GW.
Why have new players just buy a codex when we can have them buy the outdated codex plus pretty much mandatory supplements that are required to make the faction even modestly competitive?
I think out of these leaks the cultist, warband, and talon formations are solid. The rest are pretty awful really. A 6++ on vehicles? Really, GW?
Orthon wrote: The codex update thing does not make financial sense for GW.
Why have new players just buy a codex when we can have them buy the outdated codex plus pretty much mandatory supplements that are required to make the faction even modestly competitive?
I think out of these leaks the cultist, warband, and talon formations are solid. The rest are pretty awful really. A 6++ on vehicles? Really, GW?
I wouldn't call the Warp Talon one great. They still cost way to many points. Then they loose their charge bonus, don't have have assault grenades, and have no deep strike scatter mitigation. Unless you take allied daemons for icons. I'd rather take some Raptors in the Warband formation. At least they have Objsec to claim an objective, and can still shoot if they blow their scatter and can take special weapons. Agree on the Warband and Cultist formations being good. Sadly I don't play cultists I've got Daemonettes for light troops.
Are the Cult and Terminator Auxiliaries actual formations or just part of the detachment?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So the main question is whether or not we are given permission to replace the CSM with cult marines.
Nope, if you want cult units, they're their own auxiliary with no special rules, so as always, you're gak out of luck if you want to play a cult legion other than world eaters, who get their own core choice. If you want EC / TS / DG then you're looking at a CAD, same as always. Though as mentioned, you can do fluffy Death Guard with typhus / lost and damned / plague Marines / whatever else.
Skerr wrote: Answered my next question about being able to take multiple cultists formations.
So raptors do not get disorganized charge and warp talons do?.
Anyone in the formation has to make a disordered charge off of deep strike.
"Predatory Warriors: Units in this formation can charge on the same turn they arrived from deep strike reserve, but always count as making a disordered charge when they do so."
I'd still rather take my chances with psychic power aided regular assaults. Although if it turns out that we can now use the dimensional key with some degree of success, this might not be bad at all.
Accurately deepstriking meltas and flamers AND then assaulting rather than waiting to be shot to pieces, terrain or not thanks to grenades. And since you can drop them where you need them to be, you could always use the HoW and if you do want to take warp talons, you could drop them where terrain isn't an issue.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So the main question is whether or not we are given permission to replace the CSM with cult marines.
Nope, if you want cult units, they're their own auxiliary with no special rules, so as always, you're gak out of luck if you want to play a cult legion other than world eaters, who get their own core choice. If you want EC / TS / DG then you're looking at a CAD, same as always. Though as mentioned, you can do fluffy Death Guard with typhus / lost and damned / plague Marines / whatever else.
At least it seems like virtually all formations are indeed proper formations. So the talons and heldrake pack work well with a night lords theme. But yea, cult legions don't seem to get anything besides new psychic powers.
So, I noticed that Ahriman can be taken in at least one of these formations.
Which of course makes me wonder, if GW has him fighting in this war zone, will he be participating in the whole Warzone Fenris thing?
So Word Bearers are mentioned as participating in this campaign and the superformation has a Dark Apostle-themed core formation. We also got a core Khorne formation.
What are the chances the next Fenris book features a core Alpha Legion-themed formation alongside the core Tzeentch one? Alpha Legion were mentioned in one of the promo pieces for that warzone.
Huh. This is better than what I expected. Thinking the gems in this... update... might not be obvious.
1) Warp Talons that can assault the turn they deep strike might actually be useful, what with blind and all. Thinking this is a nice close-assault bomb to drop on some long range guns.
2) That's 4 - 9 units of cultists that can re-enter combat outflanking after they are destroyed. Thinking this is a good tactic for seizing objectives late in the game, you can just start dropping them on anything that is not already secured.
3) Maulerfiends with Rage is just nuts. Others have pointed this out, but thinking this is now the primary way for CSMs to eat tanks.
4) Berzerkers can finally charge like they mean it. Thinking the items above are big enough distractions that maybe they stand a chance of getting into combat.
Obsec tzeench termies?
Obsec bikers at cheaper prices than imperials?
Warpsmith formations with multiple daemonforge uses and a 4++ on one unit?
Deep strike jump packs?
I keep telling people this is great. More useful than the Tau formations you almsot never see used. Even all the updates that added in formations not every single one was a winner. The fact that chaos looks like it has 3-4 really solid ones is damn good. All Necrons have is decurion ect.
Gamgee wrote: I keep telling people this is great. More useful than the Tau formations you almsot never see used. Even all the updates that added in formations not every single one was a winner. The fact that chaos looks like it has 3-4 really solid ones is damn good. All Necrons have is decurion ect.
I'm surprised the assaulting after deepstriking lord isn't exciting more people. .
Gamgee wrote: I keep telling people this is great. More useful than the Tau formations you almsot never see used. Even all the updates that added in formations not every single one was a winner. The fact that chaos looks like it has 3-4 really solid ones is damn good. All Necrons have is decurion ect.
I'm surprised the assaulting after deepstriking lord isn't exciting more people. .
There is definitely a couple gems here. The Lord is very cool, and just as I was plotting out my Slaughterpriest conversion with Possessed wings too
I am just glad it's not broken busted like tau and eldar, lots of versatility, decent bonuses, and overall a interesting feel to the entire thing. Will be interesting to see all the rules together and potentially the relics/renegade Knights.
Nominate a unit before deployment, the formation get Hatred (because OF COURSE it'd be Hatred) against that unit and can shoot at that unit immediately after they Deep Strike, as well as shooting normally that turn (against the same or a different target.
If the target unit is completely destroyed at any point, you immediately pick a new target and get the same bonuses against them
Shame that you already will have Hatred against half the armies out there, but it makes Reaper Autocannons less junky, not that I'd encourage ANYBODY to use them. It does make Termicide better though and that's what counts. Go all out with 6-8 Plasma shots and then finish with the meh Bolters.
Gamgee wrote: I keep telling people this is great. More useful than the Tau formations you almsot never see used. Even all the updates that added in formations not every single one was a winner. The fact that chaos looks like it has 3-4 really solid ones is damn good. All Necrons have is decurion ect.
I'm surprised the assaulting after deepstriking lord isn't exciting more people. .
It's exciting the hell out of me and I'm glad you mentioned it.
WangoFett wrote: Ok how about this: DS, pop all those plasma shots, then RUN so you are closer to an objective or at least no-longer in a tasty pie shape.
Hadn't considered it that way. Much better than some ineffectual bolter fire in most cases.
it's VERY situational - to use the rule fully you have to DS in and hope you land in range/LOS of your nominated target
Between the Terminators and the Raptors I can see the Dimensional Key becoming way more popular - pop the key, get the Raptors exactly where you want them and DS in the Annihilation squad near their target
Taking the Burning Brand on the lord might be a good idea - DS in, burn, burn again in the shooting phase
what a dissapointing release .. makes me sad the only formation that will see a lot of play is the spawns one with mark of nurgle and we will see even more armies with spawn tide. Basically worst release ever.
fearzffs wrote: what a dissapointing release .. makes me sad the only formation that will see a lot of play is the spawns one with mark of nurgle and we will see even more armies with spawn tide. Basically worst release ever.
LOL! Sadly, the spawn is the cheapest auxiliary and might actually be the best even though it has no special rules...
fearzffs wrote: what a dissapointing release .. makes me sad the only formation that will see a lot of play is the spawns one with mark of nurgle and we will see even more armies with spawn tide. Basically worst release ever.
Yes, you are quite right, this is the worst release ever, and no other formations will get a look in. Especially not the formations being discussed above.
-The Lost and the Damned (apostle w/9x cultists w/flamers)
-Heldrake terror pack 4x heldrake
-15x nurgle spawn
Codex cultist, heldrake, & spawn is alive and well!
nah an airsuperiority detachment is better with 2 heldrakes the spawns are a must and the lost and the damned. And with the points to spare guess what Sorcerers cabal !
Yes !
At least CSM got a decent decurion. A nice and flexible core, some nice aux formations, detatchment bonuses that are somewhat usefull more often than not. Looking at my Ghazcuroon, looking back at this one... I never thought I'd say that, but I envy CSM players a little.
hordrak wrote: At least CSM got a decent decurion. A nice and flexible core, some nice aux formations, detatchment bonuses that are somewhat usefull more often than not. Looking at my Ghazcuroon, looking back at this one... I never thought I'd say that, but I envy CSM players a little.
The CSM ones have some strong possibilities, and a mix of fluff themed potential and chaos versions of loyalist formations. Not brokenly strong, like the free transports of the SM, or Eldar, but those are too strong and need toned back instead.
If only IG, Orks, and Dark Eldar had formations like this.
Don't even tease me about Dark Eldar formations this good. The coolest news I heard was the Frontline guys saying a reliable source knew about plans for the DE its on one of their episodes from quite awhile ago.
Something about most DE weapons adding blind and all sorts of cool stuff. People on the internet called BS since they thought it was a new codex, but it sounded like it was formation benefits.
I sure hope that happens. Any plans for Eldar/DE/Harlie campaign books any time soon Sad Panda?
jah-joshua wrote: very cool sculpt!!!
you are on fire today, Chikout
i can't wait to paint some little duels between Heresy T.Sons and wolves...
cheers
jah
Too kind. The benefits of a boring job. I will be leaking nx info later. Sad panda's got nothing on some random guy braving the depths of the Internet from an office in Japan.
On topic, any info on the contents of those ba bundles?
From one point of view, it seems as if the rules just indicates what happens the moment they arrive from DS, other than it has to perform one to gain the extra shooting attack, but on second thought, how would you address subsequent free shooting attacks, if the clause allowing it occurs during DS deployment
... in other words do you have to DS again to benefit from the next free shooting attack?
I would highly doubt that. Each detachment would get its own rules. The RIptide wing doesn't benefit from the rules of the FSE or Tau decurions since its just its own formation.
If that were true it would make space marines even more obnoxious when the FAQ's are trying to tone down their super friends deathstars.
The difference there is the the FSE and Tau decurions are specific detachments.
The Crimson Slaughter benefits are like the generic FSE benefits, you name a detachment as being CS and get the CS bonuses on top of those of the Detachment (like FSE and their Crisis Suit troops).
However I don't think you can make a Black Crusade detachment a CS detachment, since one gives you free VotLW upgrades and the other makes it so you can't have any units with VotLW. I don't see anything stopping you from taking one of the Traitor's Hate Formations outside of a Black Crusade Detachment and making it CS.
Gotta admit, this is nice stuff for Chaos Space Marines. I'm curious about how many unique powers they are getting as it looks they have at least one each per discipline that Loyalists won't get. Now they just need to update the actual codex itself and a good chunk of the model range.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: The difference there is the the FSE and Tau decurions are specific detachments.
The Crimson Slaughter benefits are like the generic FSE benefits, you name a detachment as being CS and get the CS bonuses on top of those of the Detachment (like FSE and their Crisis Suit troops).
However I don't think you can make a Black Crusade detachment a CS detachment, since one gives you free VotLW upgrades and the other makes it so you can't have any units with VotLW. I don't see anything stopping you from taking one of the Traitor's Hate Formations outside of a Black Crusade Detachment and making it CS.
Hmm, the favoured of Chaos formation taken as Crimson slaughter makes possessed actually pretty viable. You'll have 3 squads of possessed with shrouded, beast, rending and 3++.
Considering the crimson slaughter are leading the csm from book 1 I cant see why crimson slaughter rules cant be applied. Though it is gw and chaos so massive oversights are to be expected
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Caederes wrote: Gotta admit, this is nice stuff for Chaos Space Marines. I'm curious about how many unique powers they are getting as it looks they have at least one each per discipline that Loyalists won't get. Now they just need to update the actual codex itself and a good chunk of the model range.
Sgt. Cortez wrote: Hmm, the favoured of Chaos formation taken as Crimson slaughter makes possessed actually pretty viable. You'll have 3 squads of possessed with shrouded, beast, rending and 3++.
You receive the bonus in the fight phase, so Shrouded and Beast won't do you much good. So no, GW has STILL not managed selling us Possessed
Not to derail the topic from the current CSM offerings, which I'm pleased to see by the way, but has anyone reported on the recent Blood Angels offerings regarding the Traitor's Hate campaign?
Namely the reported Angel's Blade
From BOLS - Grot Orderly on Sept. 05 2016:
“So this week we will hear about the next week’s new Supplement for Blood Angels, called Angel’s Blade. It will involve Chaos Space Marines invasion on some planet (of course). 9 new formations, 2 new detachments as well as Death Company relics and tactical objectives, wargear upgrades and 3 new missions to top it all of.
New Blood Angel Termie Captain DC Chaplain and updates to Assault and Devastator squads.
Angels’ Blade (supplement) – 30GBP / 39EUR
BA Death Company Strike Force – 80GBP / 105EUR
BA Archangels Orbital Intervention Force – 80GBP / 100EUR
BA Chapter Ancients – 65GBP / 80EUR
We will also get new boxes for Blood Angels Vanguard, Assault, Sternguard and Company Command.”
I for one am curious to see if any of these rumors come to pass. I really hope they give BA a functioning decurion similar to what Chaos is getting/has gotten with the Traitor's Hate book. It would be nice to be on at least closer to equal footing to both SM and DA at some point in the near future.
Based on what this is saying, and the rumor blurbs released on facebook yesterday:
It seems Death Company may play a larger role in these formations.
Looking forward to seeing more on this. Has anyone else heard anything regarding BA in the coming weeks?
This is probably ruled at the beginning of the BC section of the book. Are BC rules defined as an update to Codex: CSM or a supplement like CS and BL?
CS 2016:
I guess it is possible to stack these boni but we cannot be sure until we saw if the first page and the Relics and Warlord Traits pages say otherwise. Some armies have 'separate branches' of army building and effects cannot be combined. Orks, Sanctus Reach, the Ghazghkull supp and FW's Dreadmob list for example. That CS ruling is quite a new thing. I was told in case of Angels of Death and one of the SM supplements GWfaq'ed a similiar issue so it cannot be combined.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Red_Thirst The official GW email to retailers was posted a few pages back by Mongoose.Matt
Let me find it
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MongooseMatt
Retailers have just got this on Angel's Blade:
A 136 page Warhammer 40.000 campaign supplement and update to the Codex: Blood Angels, detailing a Chaos Space Marine invasion of the Diamor System at the beginning of Abaddon’s 13th Black Crusade, from the Blood Angels perspective. This book contains lots of new rules to be used alongside the Blood Angels Codex. It contains 9 new formations and 2 powerful new Detachments, Death Company Relics, Death Company Tactical Objectives, revised Wargear of Baal section, 3 new Altar of War missions, new datasheets for the Blood Angel Terminator Captain, Death Company Chaplain and updated datasheets of the Assault Squad and Devastator Squad.
Will be £30.
Other Stuff:
B.A. Vanguard Veteran Squad £ 28.00
B.A. Assault Squad £ 28.00
B.A. Sternguard Veteran Squad £ 33.00
B.A. Company Command £ 28.00
B.A. Death Company Strike Force £ 80.00
B.A. Archangels Orbital Intervention Force £ 80.00
B.A. Chapter Ancients £ 65.00
Ah I missed it then, saw it had been posted yesterday on BoLS but didn't go far enough back in the thread here. My bad.
With all the cool new stuff coming out for Chaos I'm cautiously optimistic to see what BA get with these formations, and detachments.
Also, and this is wishful thinking on the order of magnitude, but I'm hoping these updated datasheets for Assault & Devastator squads give access to Evicerators for assault marines, and Grav Cannons + Amps for the Devastators.
The pure wishlister in me hopes that BA devastators will get Frag Cannons as an option... Man oh man I'd field Blood Angels Devastators armed with frag cannons all day, every day, and twice on Sundays.
Guess we'll see what we can see later on in the coming week.
I do think Leviathan / Exterminatus was a missed opportunity. Blood Angels should have been fixed in those books, and shouldn't have a book AGAIN.
But if Traitor's Hate can help, it still a win, I guess.
godardc wrote: Why do we have Traitor's Hate before Fenris Part II ? Was something released between Leviathan and Exterminatus ? Kauyon and Montka ?
I was wondering this myself, and I see Matt's reply just above (after clicking the quote button) which answers the question. I expect they'll release it at some point before the end of the year, but who knows how soon.
It's not nearly as bad as in years past, but the old mantra of 'hurry up and wait' still holds some truth to it.
Also, thanks to Matt for the quick reply to the question.
No problem, Red_Thirst, it is worth reposting anyway Fingers-crossed for a good BA update - they deserve a decurion. It looks like they will get two actually, so there is a good chance these will make the army better.
hordrak wrote: At least CSM got a decent decurion. A nice and flexible core, some nice aux formations, detatchment bonuses that are somewhat usefull more often than not. Looking at my Ghazcuroon, looking back at this one... I never thought I'd say that, but I envy CSM players a little.
The CSM ones have some strong possibilities, and a mix of fluff themed potential and chaos versions of loyalist formations. Not brokenly strong, like the free transports of the SM, or Eldar, but those are too strong and need toned back instead.
If only IG, Orks, and Dark Eldar had formations like this.
What's broken about the Eldar decurion? Most people don't even use it. The Aspect Shrine is a bit bonkers but that's it.
godardc wrote: I do think Leviathan / Exterminatus was a missed opportunity. Blood Angels should have been fixed in those books, and shouldn't have a book AGAIN. But if Traitor's Hate can help, it still a win, I guess.
I agree completely. I was so optimistic about the Leviathan/Exterminatus set and formations and to be sure there were a couple of interesting ones in there, but they didn't fix the core codex which is decidedly behind the curve being released prior to the new Necron codex and Decurions becoming the order of the day.
I'll be honest. I don't want free transports or Librarian Conclaves. I just want something fun, and functional that can stand on close to equal footing with SM & DA.
I'm liking the new Chaos stuff that's inbound. Looking forward to playing against it on the tabletop soon.
What's broken about the Eldar decurion? Most people don't even use it. The Aspect Shrine is a bit bonkers but that's it.
I concur with this. None of the Eldar Decurions are what I would consider broken. The best one of them is the Wind Rider Host, in my opinion, but even it isn't broken by itself. It's Jump shoot jump units that are maddeningly frustrating.
Now Aspect Shrine is crazy trains good. Two to three squads of Warp Spiders that are BS:5, hitting and wounding on 2+, can run and shoot the turn they arrive from Deep Strike and can teleport away in the ensuing assault phase before they get flickerjump when you shoot at them? Mother of mercy they're horrifying. Pants gakkingly horrifying.
Then you factor in the jetbikes... and It (by it, I mean your army) devolves quickly. It's banana hammers.
godardc wrote: Why do we have Traitor's Hate before Fenris Part II ? Was something released between Leviathan and Exterminatus ? Kauyon and Montka ?
What we were referencing to as Fenris II will probably be the Thousand Sons + Magnus Daemonprimarch release later in the year. According to Sad Panda Magnus comes after the HH Ahriman - who should be in the next HH boardgame.
Then there is Silver Tower. Sad Panda mentioned a quite impressive range of Tzeentch miniatures (mostly for AoS). Silver Tower was released in April, and if Assassinorum and BaC are a hint for things to come, several of the Silver Tower models could see a re-release half a year later, so around October. According to Sad Panda there will be crossover possibilities for these Tzeentch models with 40k. We have Pink, Blue and Brimstone Horrors in ST. They would be a good candidate for a Q4 release, the latter two getting new multipart boxes I guess.
Then the next HH boardgame and the Thousand Sons release afterwards. According to an interview with the author of the Warzone Fenris sequel novel, Legacy of Russ which was already released as an ebook series, the Warzone Fenris situation could be continued in other systems.
godardc wrote: Why do we have Traitor's Hate before Fenris Part II ? Was something released between Leviathan and Exterminatus ? Kauyon and Montka ?
What we were referencing to as Fenris II will probably be the Thousand Sons + Magnus Daemonprimarch release later in the year. According to Sad Panda Magnus comes after the HH Ahriman - who should be in the next HH boardgame.
Then there is Silver Tower. Sad Panda mentioned a quite impressive range of Tzeentch miniatures (mostly for AoS). Silver Tower was released in April, and if Assassinorum and BaC are a hint for things to come, several of the Silver Tower models could see a re-release half a year later, so around October. According to Sad Panda there will be crossover possibilities for these Tzeentch models with 40k. We have Pink, Blue and Brimstone Horrors in ST. They would be a good candidate for a Q4 release, the latter two getting new multipart boxes I guess.
Then the next HH boardgame and the Thousand Sons release afterwards. According to an interview with the author of the Warzone Fenris sequel novel, Legacy of Russ which was already released as an ebook series, the Warzone Fenris situation could be continued in other systems.
The Spawn one is "You get to take some spawn, yay". no special rules
You can take an infinite amount of singular Spawns though. If the game/tournament isn't about Kill Points (a.k.a crap tournament that favours deathstars) it could be a very effective and disrupting MSU.
Now Aspect Shrine is crazy trains good. Two to three squads of Warp Spiders that are BS:5, hitting and wounding on 2+, can run and shoot the turn they arrive from Deep Strike and can teleport away in the ensuing assault phase before they get flickerjump when you shoot at them? Mother of mercy they're horrifying. Pants gakkingly horrifying.
Then you factor in the jetbikes... and It (by it, I mean your army) devolves quickly. It's banana hammers.
Just my opinion on that. Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
Ironically, my Harlequins have a field trip against Warpspider armies.
Red__Thirst wrote: Ah I missed it then, saw it had been posted yesterday on BoLS but didn't go far enough back in the thread here. My bad.
With all the cool new stuff coming out for Chaos I'm cautiously optimistic to see what BA get with these formations, and detachments.
-Red__Thirst-
Lol cool new stuff. Nope. Id not hold your breath for blood angels getting fixed or cool stuff, chaos definitely hasn't. Though as BA are imperial it wouldn't surprise me but chaos got crapped on yet again
Matt.Kingsley wrote: The difference there is the the FSE and Tau decurions are specific detachments.
The Crimson Slaughter benefits are like the generic FSE benefits, you name a detachment as being CS and get the CS bonuses on top of those of the Detachment (like FSE and their Crisis Suit troops).
However I don't think you can make a Black Crusade detachment a CS detachment, since one gives you free VotLW upgrades and the other makes it so you can't have any units with VotLW. I don't see anything stopping you from taking one of the Traitor's Hate Formations outside of a Black Crusade Detachment and making it CS.
The free VotLW is optional. So if you made your Black Crusade a CS detachment you would not be able to utilize it. The Favoured of Chaos cannot be a CS formation because the Daemon Prince has VotLW. Other than that I don't see any conflicts.
Black Crusade gives Hatred (Armies of the Imperium) so all you're missing out on is the +1 Ld. Would be good for a fluffy NL army.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: The difference there is the the FSE and Tau decurions are specific detachments.
The Crimson Slaughter benefits are like the generic FSE benefits, you name a detachment as being CS and get the CS bonuses on top of those of the Detachment (like FSE and their Crisis Suit troops).
However I don't think you can make a Black Crusade detachment a CS detachment, since one gives you free VotLW upgrades and the other makes it so you can't have any units with VotLW. I don't see anything stopping you from taking one of the Traitor's Hate Formations outside of a Black Crusade Detachment and making it CS.
The free VotLW is optional. So if you made your Black Crusade a CS detachment you would not be able to utilize it. The Favoured of Chaos cannot be a CS formation because the Daemon Prince has VotLW. Other than that I don't see any conflicts.
Black Crusade gives Hatred (Armies of the Imperium) so all you're missing out on is the +1 Ld. Would be good for a fluffy NL army.
Crimson slaughter only stops you from purchasing veterans of the long war, it doesn't stop you from taking models that have it by default, otherwise they wouldn't be able to take thousand sons/rubric marines.
Red__Thirst wrote: Ah I missed it then, saw it had been posted yesterday on BoLS but didn't go far enough back in the thread here. My bad.
With all the cool new stuff coming out for Chaos I'm cautiously optimistic to see what BA get with these formations, and detachments.
-Red__Thirst-
Lol cool new stuff. Nope. Id not hold your breath for blood angels getting fixed or cool stuff, chaos definitely hasn't. Though as BA are imperial it wouldn't surprise me but chaos got crapped on yet again
Wow, bitter much? These new chaos formations are actually pretty cool I think. They certainty have potential anyway.
Sorry to hear you think otherwise, but to each their own.
Red__Thirst wrote: Ah I missed it then, saw it had been posted yesterday on BoLS but didn't go far enough back in the thread here. My bad.
With all the cool new stuff coming out for Chaos I'm cautiously optimistic to see what BA get with these formations, and detachments.
-Red__Thirst-
Lol cool new stuff. Nope. Id not hold your breath for blood angels getting fixed or cool stuff, chaos definitely hasn't. Though as BA are imperial it wouldn't surprise me but chaos got crapped on yet again
Wow, bitter much? These new chaos formations are actually pretty cool I think. They certainty have potential anyway.
Sorry to hear you think otherwise, but to each their own.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
Lol not bitter just pointing out information. Having had these formations for a few days even checking them over and over while some are average its still a waste of a book. Chaos used to be good. 8th will hopefully sort them but I'm not holding out hope. As you say each to their own
Possessed crimson slaughter Rhino rush may be a decent tactic, since they will grant the rhino shrouded at the start of the fight sub phase, until the start of the next turn, so if you pop smoke the rhinos will will become quite difficult to take down with the 2+ cover save.
Chikout wrote: Hastings just popped up in the war of sigmar comments section to say that we will be seeing Magnus Angorn, Mortarion, Russ and Guilliman in 40k.
No Corax?
Dropped.
I can't wait to see Magnus/Angorn/Mortarion get easily crushed by Russ and Gulliman in one page of fluff.
How would the Rhinos benefit from Shrouded against shooting when the DP+Possessed -formation only grants the bonuses at the start of the Fight sub-phase, lasting until the end of that turn. The Possessed of CS have a different wording on theirs (start of turn until next player turn) and directly contradict the Traitors Hate -formations wording. Ergo:
I highly doubt the Black Crusade Detachments can be made into Crimson Slaughter ones to abuse their special rules combined with the formation rules. Ask about it in the certainly upcoming FAQ/post your questions - query on FB. I bet my money on GW saying you can't do that.
Red__Thirst wrote: Ah I missed it then, saw it had been posted yesterday on BoLS but didn't go far enough back in the thread here. My bad.
With all the cool new stuff coming out for Chaos I'm cautiously optimistic to see what BA get with these formations, and detachments.
-Red__Thirst-
Lol cool new stuff. Nope. Id not hold your breath for blood angels getting fixed or cool stuff, chaos definitely hasn't. Though as BA are imperial it wouldn't surprise me but chaos got crapped on yet again
Wow, bitter much? These new chaos formations are actually pretty cool I think. They certainty have potential anyway.
Sorry to hear you think otherwise, but to each their own.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
Lol not bitter just pointing out information. Having had these formations for a few days even checking them over and over while some are average its still a waste of a book. Chaos used to be good. 8th will hopefully sort them but I'm not holding out hope. As you say each to their own
less salty tears the best formations are respawning in cheap units is one of the best formation benefits. (Especially with zealot and typhus) You can poo poo it all you want but the most powerful formation effects are respawning (free points), free upgrades, assault After deep strike, summoning, and buff stacking/sharing. And chaos just got most of those effects and are still crying. On top of a cheap flexible decurion. It's not game breaking but they are good effects any codex would want. You don't think blood Angels would want a few of thier assault units to have change after deep strike? Even with disorganized lol your kidding yourself.
Chikout wrote: Hastings just popped up in the war of sigmar comments section to say that we will be seeing Magnus Angorn, Mortarion, Russ and Guilliman in 40k.
with rogal dorn rumored to be the first loyalist primarch to show up this makes sense.
3 loyal primarchs, 3 chaos primarchs.
then with the added rumor of additional returning primarchs that may no longer side with the imperium/chaos.
SUper excited to see how this all plays out in the next year.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: The difference there is the the FSE and Tau decurions are specific detachments.
The Crimson Slaughter benefits are like the generic FSE benefits, you name a detachment as being CS and get the CS bonuses on top of those of the Detachment (like FSE and their Crisis Suit troops).
However I don't think you can make a Black Crusade detachment a CS detachment, since one gives you free VotLW upgrades and the other makes it so you can't have any units with VotLW. I don't see anything stopping you from taking one of the Traitor's Hate Formations outside of a Black Crusade Detachment and making it CS.
The free VotLW is optional. So if you made your Black Crusade a CS detachment you would not be able to utilize it. The Favoured of Chaos cannot be a CS formation because the Daemon Prince has VotLW. Other than that I don't see any conflicts.
Black Crusade gives Hatred (Armies of the Imperium) so all you're missing out on is the +1 Ld. Would be good for a fluffy NL army.
Crimson slaughter only stops you from purchasing veterans of the long war, it doesn't stop you from taking models that have it by default, otherwise they wouldn't be able to take thousand sons/rubric marines.
The rule states:
No units in a Crimson Slaughter Detachment or Formation can have the Veterans of the Long War special rule except Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines and Noise Marines.
Do Thousand Sons have the Veterans of the Long War special rule? Are they Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines or Noise Marines?
Chikout wrote: Hastings just popped up in the war of sigmar comments section to say that we will be seeing Magnus Angorn, Mortarion, Russ and Guilliman in 40k.
with rogal dorn rumored to be the first loyalist primarch to show up this makes sense.
3 loyal primarchs, 3 chaos primarchs.
then with the added rumor of additional returning primarchs that may no longer side with the imperium/chaos.
SUper excited to see how this all plays out in the next year.
On one hand, I'm really excited to see what they're doing with 40k under this new direction. The setting feels fun and interesting again, though the rules could... still use some work, let's say.
On the other hand, as a Necron player, I'm just kinda twiddling my thumbs while SM and CSM are getting all this stuff. I want a Silent King model, darn it!
Would really like to see the DA get some love, though I have the feeling it will be a few years. It's also pretty clear that the Lion will probably be the last Primarch that FW produces, so my wait will be a long one.
Retrogamer0001 wrote: Would really like to see the DA get some love, though I have the feeling it will be a few years. It's also pretty clear that the Lion will probably be the last Primarch that FW produces, so my wait will be a long one.
Depends. There are less alive and "possibly alive" primarchs in 40k than in 30k, and he's one of the ones that is pretty heavily implied to be alive and in wait. If he's not one of the first, he won't be long behind I'd imagine.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: The difference there is the the FSE and Tau decurions are specific detachments.
The Crimson Slaughter benefits are like the generic FSE benefits, you name a detachment as being CS and get the CS bonuses on top of those of the Detachment (like FSE and their Crisis Suit troops).
However I don't think you can make a Black Crusade detachment a CS detachment, since one gives you free VotLW upgrades and the other makes it so you can't have any units with VotLW. I don't see anything stopping you from taking one of the Traitor's Hate Formations outside of a Black Crusade Detachment and making it CS.
The free VotLW is optional. So if you made your Black Crusade a CS detachment you would not be able to utilize it. The Favoured of Chaos cannot be a CS formation because the Daemon Prince has VotLW. Other than that I don't see any conflicts.
Black Crusade gives Hatred (Armies of the Imperium) so all you're missing out on is the +1 Ld. Would be good for a fluffy NL army.
Crimson slaughter only stops you from purchasing veterans of the long war, it doesn't stop you from taking models that have it by default, otherwise they wouldn't be able to take thousand sons/rubric marines.
The rule states:
No units in a Crimson Slaughter Detachment or Formation can have the Veterans of the Long War special rule except Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines and Noise Marines.
Do Thousand Sons have the Veterans of the Long War special rule? Are they Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines or Noise Marines?
Those are excempt from that rule. that is berzerkers, plague marines and noise marines. Thousand Sons get the middle finger because chaos.
Man, if Dorn is actually coming, I will 100% be buying him. Sure, my army is just his offshoot children, but he will probably still be okay with them. C:SM need some Lord of War characters actually worth the title.
Between Dorn and more BA, I will be set.
I am really hoping the updated Assault Marine datasheat allows them to be taken as Troops.
Chikout wrote: Hastings just popped up in the war of sigmar comments section to say that we will be seeing Magnus Angorn, Mortarion, Russ and Guilliman in 40k.
So I notice that Fulgrim is missing from that list. Which makes sense given the rumors...
If Guilliman is coming to 40k, I am willing to bet that GW has some shoddy writer (cough cough Ward cough cough) say that his primarch physique overcomes the poison in his system and could have this whole time.
Chikout wrote: Hastings just popped up in the war of sigmar comments section to say that we will be seeing Magnus Angorn, Mortarion, Russ and Guilliman in 40k.
So I notice that Fulgrim is missing from that list. Which makes sense given the rumors...
You mean the idiotic rantings of pedantic fear mongers?
Yeah. Good luck with that.
You know what does make sense?
Fulgrim staying in his pleasure palace because why bother invading the realspace when he can just snort 666 flavors of coke?
Hastings said we will see X, Y and Z. That doesn't mean anything other than what it means.
King Pariah wrote: If Guilliman is coming to 40k, I am willing to bet that GW has some shoddy writer (cough cough Ward cough cough) say that his primarch physique overcomes the poison in his system and could have this whole time.
Or (arguably) worse: Guilliman is a perpetual.
It's generally pretty accepted that Guilliman has been slowly healing inside his stasis field for the last 10,000 years. He WILL be back for the End Times, the same as Vulkan, Corax, The Khan, Russ, The Lion, and Dorn.
Getting ready to cry about the fluff butchery ahead. The End Times is "here" has been a long running thing in 40k since I got in the hobby many moons ago.
I could just about live with it if the Space Wolves are taking a pasting and Bjorn is summoned to help them fight, he's battling away and then a portal opens, the 13th company piles out and turns the tide of battle. Bjorn's robot lenses focus upon a figure in the middle of the portal stepping through. He can't believe it. Fights his way closer, through daemons and things that should really pulverise him. His armour is smashed and dented but he fights his way through, gets to the figure and it is indeed who he thought he had seen. "I have returned, Bjorn".
THE END.
I do not want to hear anything else. I don't want to know what he was doing, why he hasn't been home. By all means push that clock forward to 1 second to midnight but don't give us a whole story about what Leman Russ makes of the 41st Millenia. Just have him appear and we'll figure out the rest in our heads.
Wow, bitter much? These new chaos formations are actually pretty cool I think. They certainty have potential anyway.
Sorry to hear you think otherwise, but to each their own.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
It's terribad.
So you get free +1 Ld, woopdedoop. You still get run down in cc (swept) which SM don't, and you can't go over Ld10, and some units already get it.
Hatred (Imperium) is the only real bonus of the detachment. Woop.
The codex still sucks utter balls and most of your units are still terribad, and you still don't have grav, centurions, stormtalons, etc etc etc
Once again GW are just terribad. They needed to fix the codex first.
Oh and Kharn... no EW. So he dies to krak missiles, thnder hammer/PF to the face, meltaguns, etc etc... just awful. Clearly GW do absolutely no playtesting whatsoever any more. It's just embarrassingly bad.
I don't even play CSM, I just want them to fix the ridiculous imbalance between the codices. It's like they hire small children or something. Complete asshats. Totally incompetent.
So you get free +1 Ld, woopdedoop. You still get run down in cc (swept) which SM don't, and you can't go over Ld10, and some units already get it.
Hatred (Imperium) is the only real bonus of the detachment. Woop.
The codex still sucks utter balls and most of your units are still terribad, and you still don't have grav, centurions, stormtalons, etc etc etc
Once again GW are just terribad. They needed to fix the codex first.
Oh and Kharn... no EW. So he dies to krak missiles, thnder hammer/PF to the face, meltaguns, etc etc... just awful. Clearly GW do absolutely no playtesting whatsoever any more. It's just embarrassingly bad.
I don't even play CSM, I just want them to fix the ridiculous imbalance between the codices. It's like they hire small children or something. Complete asshats. Totally incompetent.
Ladies and gentlemen. I present, for your viewing displeasure....
Cancer. The post.
Chikout wrote: Hastings just popped up in the war of sigmar comments section to say that we will be seeing Magnus Angorn, Mortarion, Russ and Guilliman in 40k.
So I notice that Fulgrim is missing from that list. Which makes sense given the rumors...
You mean the idiotic rantings of pedantic fear mongers?
Yeah. Good luck with that.
You know what does make sense?
Fulgrim staying in his pleasure palace because why bother invading the realspace when he can just snort 666 flavors of coke?
Hastings said we will see X, Y and Z. That doesn't mean anything other than what it means.
I personally don't really believe they'll erase Slaanesh from the setting. I do however find it much more likely that they'll allow him/her to lapse into SoB status - no new releases ever again and only occasional fluff mentions in passing.
So you get free +1 Ld, woopdedoop. You still get run down in cc (swept) which SM don't, and you can't go over Ld10, and some units already get it.
Hatred (Imperium) is the only real bonus of the detachment. Woop.
The codex still sucks utter balls and most of your units are still terribad, and you still don't have grav, centurions, stormtalons, etc etc etc
Once again GW are just terribad. They needed to fix the codex first.
Oh and Kharn... no EW. So he dies to krak missiles, thnder hammer/PF to the face, meltaguns, etc etc... just awful. Clearly GW do absolutely no playtesting whatsoever any more. It's just embarrassingly bad.
I don't even play CSM, I just want them to fix the ridiculous imbalance between the codices. It's like they hire small children or something. Complete asshats. Totally incompetent.
Ladies and gentlemen. I present, for your viewing displeasure....
Cancer. The post.
I've gone ahead and attached a picture of bismuth to remind you that you didn't have to be the edgiest thing we've all seen today, but you still are.
Clearly GW do absolutely no playtesting whatsoever any more. It's just embarrassingly bad.
I don't even play CSM, I just want them to fix the ridiculous imbalance between the codices. It's like they hire small children or something. Complete asshats. Totally incompetent.
I believe if you do a search on this board and the previous archives - this may be the most quoted/rehashed/easy thing said each time a new codex/supplement is put out since 3rd edition.
Is the lack of suprise going to cause you to quit playing the game? Because there are plenty of folks who will pick up your collection in the Swap Shop.
Since we have the leaks, and the tears are falling I'm not sure there's much "news" left here...
From one point of view, it seems as if the rules just indicates what happens the moment they arrive from DS, other than it has to perform one to gain the extra shooting attack, but on second thought, how would you address subsequent free shooting attacks, if the clause allowing it occurs during DS deployment
... in other words do you have to DS again to benefit from the next free shooting attack?
Eternal warrior and for him not to turn into a daemon prince or spawn cos of some stupid @$$ table.
As for slaanesh being written out, please come on. The whole emperors children legion, the eldar, dark eldar, harlequins are all tied to slaanesh. GW ain't removing jack.
Eternal warrior and for him not to turn into a daemon prince or spawn cos of some stupid @$$ table.
As for slaanesh being written out, please come on. The whole emperors children legion, the eldar, dark eldar, harlequins are all tied to slaanesh. GW ain't removing jack.
Holy hell I forgot about that. At least in the Detachment you can roll two boons and choose one or both, so you can avoid this horrible fate.
Motograter wrote: As for slaanesh being written out, please come on. The whole emperors children legion, the eldar, dark eldar, harlequins are all tied to slaanesh. GW ain't removing jack.
You know...For starters Slaanesh being removed from current timeline doesn't mean past changes so what you stated would still exists. For second having Slaanesh temporarily being out affects them even less while would allow them freedom for not having to even pretend there's going to be models for Slaanesh in immediate vicinity. Ie why he's out in AOS.
Who's saying anything about permanent removal? More likely and entirely feasible scenario would be to put Slaanesh on similar state as it's in AOS.
From one point of view, it seems as if the rules just indicates what happens the moment they arrive from DS, other than it has to perform one to gain the extra shooting attack, but on second thought, how would you address subsequent free shooting attacks, if the clause allowing it occurs during DS deployment
... in other words do you have to DS again to benefit from the next free shooting attack?
The rule confers other bonus than DS shooting and yeah as is to shoot again you need to DS again so unless you can do it you don't get that benefit against new target.
Motograter wrote: As for slaanesh being written out, please come on. The whole emperors children legion, the eldar, dark eldar, harlequins are all tied to slaanesh. GW ain't removing jack.
You know...For starters Slaanesh being removed from current timeline doesn't mean past changes so what you stated would still exists. For second having Slaanesh temporarily being out affects them even less while would allow them freedom for not having to even pretend there's going to be models for Slaanesh in immediate vicinity. Ie why he's out in AOS.
Who's saying anything about permanent removal? More likely and entirely feasible scenario would be to put Slaanesh on similar state as it's in AOS.
From one point of view, it seems as if the rules just indicates what happens the moment they arrive from DS, other than it has to perform one to gain the extra shooting attack, but on second thought, how would you address subsequent free shooting attacks, if the clause allowing it occurs during DS deployment
... in other words do you have to DS again to benefit from the next free shooting attack?
The rule confers other bonus than DS shooting and yeah as is to shoot again you need to DS again so unless you can do it you don't get that benefit against new target.
I can make a long post for you to show that slaanesh is not actually out of AOS but this is not the point of the topic anywaaaay. I will be mainly buying traitor's hate for the fluff.
I can make a long post for you to show that slaanesh is not actually out of AOS but this is not the point of the topic anywaaaay. I will be mainly buying traitor's hate for the fluff.
He's missing. Ie currently not actively goign around. Which is precisely my point. He's been temporarily taken out. He can be put to same status in 40k as well until GW's release schedule allow support(or they figure what the heck they want to do if that's the reason for delay).
If you disagree I'm sure you can point new slaanesh release in AOS...Or fluff piece that shows what he's doing. Last I read he's missing and his followers are looking for him. Ie he's MIA.
Read again what I wrote. I didn't say he's out for good. I said he's temporarily out. TEMPORARILY.
adverb
adverb: temporarily
for a limited period of time; not permanently.
Again: If you disagree with that statement feel free to provide proof which shows Slaanesh is actively around in AOS.
Page 39 or 38 I think. Pretty sure I also saw the leak somewhere in the discussions forum in the "OH GOD Traitors hate" thread....or something along those lines.
I can make a long post for you to show that slaanesh is not actually out of AOS but this is not the point of the topic anywaaaay. I will be mainly buying traitor's hate for the fluff.
He's missing. Ie currently not actively goign around. Which is precisely my point. He's been temporarily taken out. He can be put to same status in 40k as well until GW's release schedule allow support(or they figure what the heck they want to do if that's the reason for delay).
If you disagree I'm sure you can point new slaanesh release in AOS...Or fluff piece that shows what he's doing. Last I read he's missing and his followers are looking for him. Ie he's MIA.
Read again what I wrote. I didn't say he's out for good. I said he's temporarily out. TEMPORARILY.
adverb
adverb: temporarily
for a limited period of time; not permanently.
Again: If you disagree with that statement feel free to provide proof which shows Slaanesh is actively around in AOS.
They state for some reason that slaanesh champions still gain blessings from slaanesh and they actually allude to the fact that slaanesh may actually allowed itself to be captured for what reason we don't know. Plus for once the followers are getting interesting development compared to the other chaos followers. Hell a slaaneshi lord was the main antagonist in the last realm gate book. It's also noted that the major lords are in talks with clan enshin trading secrets and information.
Even if slaanesh is "missing" it's touch is still felt Just because it "appears" slaanesh is out of the game it is clearly not going by the events that have occurred in the campaign books, short stories and black library novels. Plus the fact even Archaon considers slaanesh to still be a part of the pantheon. What is slaanesh planning? We don't know but we do also know that for some reason Tzeentch wants to find slaanesh as well even though he got it captured in the first place for what reason does he now want to find his brother so desperately? Well we gotta wait for the tzeentch book/dark elves battle tomes possibly.
Plus all the followers are looking for slaanesh in different and interesting ways. WHFB and warhammer general fluff has been always made out that slaanesh is the youngest but may possibly become the strongest hence why it's brothers are watching it.
Fluff wise slaanesh has gotten a lot of development almost as much as Khorne I feel. I could go on more but I don't want to derail the topic. Slaanesh is far from being irrelevant even though it is "missing" honestly this is the best thing to happen to slaanesh fluff so far because we are getting serious development for once.
Still excited for the fluff in the traitors hate supplement.
Davor wrote: Why is Slaanesh gone in 40K? I know why he/she is not in Age of Sigmar but when did he disappear in 40K?
It's cause of the whole eldar nonsense before with the deathwatch release people are fearing that slaanesh is going to get squatted. Heck some people think slaanesh was squatted from AOS. On facebook people were going nuts and GW simply responded. "Such little faith in the dark prince you think the eldar can best him so easily?" Or some such I think eldar are going to get a lesson in hubris.
Of course people still think this is going to happen. Or that slaanesh being missing in AOS means the slaanesh is irrelevant(which is far from the case it's the opposite) and this will happen in 40k.
Kijamon wrote: Getting ready to cry about the fluff butchery ahead. The End Times is "here" has been a long running thing in 40k since I got in the hobby many moons ago.
I could just about live with it if the Space Wolves are taking a pasting and Bjorn is summoned to help them fight, he's battling away and then a portal opens, the 13th company piles out and turns the tide of battle. Bjorn's robot lenses focus upon a figure in the middle of the portal stepping through. He can't believe it. Fights his way closer, through daemons and things that should really pulverise him. His armour is smashed and dented but he fights his way through, gets to the figure and it is indeed who he thought he had seen. "I have returned, Bjorn".
THE END.
I do not want to hear anything else. I don't want to know what he was doing, why he hasn't been home. By all means push that clock forward to 1 second to midnight but don't give us a whole story about what Leman Russ makes of the 41st Millenia. Just have him appear and we'll figure out the rest in our heads.
Please?
Hell yeah, that's how they should do it ! Great fluf
About the terminators, I'm certain there are some psy power allowing players to deep stike the pysker and his unit, aren't they ?
So you get free +1 Ld, woopdedoop. You still get run down in cc (swept) which SM don't, and you can't go over Ld10, and some units already get it.
Hatred (Imperium) is the only real bonus of the detachment. Woop.
The codex still sucks utter balls and most of your units are still terribad, and you still don't have grav, centurions, stormtalons, etc etc etc
Once again GW are just terribad. They needed to fix the codex first.
Oh and Kharn... no EW. So he dies to krak missiles, thnder hammer/PF to the face, meltaguns, etc etc... just awful. Clearly GW do absolutely no playtesting whatsoever any more. It's just embarrassingly bad.
I don't even play CSM, I just want them to fix the ridiculous imbalance between the codices. It's like they hire small children or something. Complete asshats. Totally incompetent.
Well we know GW are trying to change. Asking the community for feedback, the new look WD, the FAQ and Errata, Painting tutorials on YouTube, The General's Handbook.
These supplements are probably intended as a stop gap for the new chaos codex. We know 8th ed is around the corner and it would be silly to release a new codex for them now.
Change is at best, slow and painful. We are seeing improvements from GW. You can't just expect them to change overnight.
By all means voice your displeasure to GW, just don't be a about it.
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: I'm not that keen on the idea, that primarchs are going to appear in 40k.
Mystery lost. even more attention to marines, even through we have a whole game devoted just to them.
So many interesting things could be done - mercs, gene cults, new alien races, even imperium: mechanicus getting even more stuff, ordo "____"..
Yep, couldn't agree more. Really don't like the turn 40k seems to be taking. Now, it seems, it will be even more about superheroes rather than the ordinary grunts
I sent GW an email thanking them for all the cool releases recently and told them I would like a new xenos race. Facebook is not such a good place for that.
They said thanks and they'll let the design team know but can't make any promises. So if people keep nicely and politely asking we might see that new xenos race yet.
Gamgee wrote: I sent GW an email thanking them for all the cool releases recently and told them I would like a new xenos race. Facebook is not such a good place for that.
They said thanks and they'll let the design team know but can't make any promises. So if people keep nicely and politely asking we might see that new xenos race yet.
Indeed, a new xeno race is long overdue and would be much more exciting than adding primarchs
Automatically Appended Next Post:
aracersss wrote: isn't genestealer cult the next xenos army release coming in the future?
the facebook page has a blurp on psychic powers. It mentions this as well:
It's hard to pick a favourite, as there are so many good ones, but we like 'Flayerstorm', where a Sorcerer can literally rip chunks off enemy vehicles and throw them at nearby units!
That sounds like it's a new power no? Don't see anythingthat would match that description.
** although on second though that's probably machine flense**
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: I'm not that keen on the idea, that primarchs are going to appear in 40k.
Mystery lost. even more attention to marines, even through we have a whole game devoted just to them.
So many interesting things could be done - mercs, gene cults, new alien races, even imperium: mechanicus getting even more stuff, ordo "____"..
Yep, couldn't agree more. Really don't like the turn 40k seems to be taking. Now, it seems, it will be even more about superheroes rather than the ordinary grunts
You know what would actually be cooler than primarch's returning for the End Times? Primarchs not returning for the End Times.
"Father! You said you would return for the Wolftime! Why have you forsaken us?"
I mean, I like the thought of using Mortarion, but then I couldn't line him up on my shelf next to Mortarion. I mean WTF, it would be a never ending battle on my shelf, because Typhon hates Mortation, and Mortarion is a bad ass Daemon Prince. I would never get any sleep.
I can make a long post for you to show that slaanesh is not actually out of AOS but this is not the point of the topic anywaaaay. I will be mainly buying traitor's hate for the fluff.
He's missing. Ie currently not actively goign around. Which is precisely my point. He's been temporarily taken out. He can be put to same status in 40k as well until GW's release schedule allow support(or they figure what the heck they want to do if that's the reason for delay).
If you disagree I'm sure you can point new slaanesh release in AOS...Or fluff piece that shows what he's doing. Last I read he's missing and his followers are looking for him. Ie he's MIA.
Read again what I wrote. I didn't say he's out for good. I said he's temporarily out. TEMPORARILY.
adverb
adverb: temporarily
for a limited period of time; not permanently.
Again: If you disagree with that statement feel free to provide proof which shows Slaanesh is actively around in AOS.
You seriously need to let this go. Slaanesh is not going anywhere it was confirmed at game day. AOS is a "narrative" campaign. Slaanesh will be back when they address the Aelfs and their storyline. There is no evidence of Slaanesh being gone in 40K. Deathwatch would have been a perfect time to remove hir if they intended too. What we got was the exact opposite the removal of the only known way to defeat hir. Also Slaanesh is not missing anything the other gods aren't model wise either. All the cults need models. Slaanesh daemon got most of their models first.
redleger wrote: I mean, I like the thought of using Mortarion, but then I couldn't line him up on my shelf next to Mortarion. I mean WTF, it would be a never ending battle on my shelf, because Typhon hates Mortation, and Mortarion is a bad ass Daemon Prince. I would never get any sleep.
King Pariah wrote: If Guilliman is coming to 40k, I am willing to bet that GW has some shoddy writer (cough cough Ward cough cough) say that his primarch physique overcomes the poison in his system and could have this whole time.
Davor wrote: Why is Slaanesh gone in 40K? I know why he/she is not in Age of Sigmar but when did he disappear in 40K?
It's cause of the whole eldar nonsense before with the deathwatch release people are fearing that slaanesh is going to get squatted. Heck some people think slaanesh was squatted from AOS. On facebook people were going nuts and GW simply responded. "Such little faith in the dark prince you think the eldar can best him so easily?" Or some such I think eldar are going to get a lesson in hubris.
Of course people still think this is going to happen. Or that slaanesh being missing in AOS means the slaanesh is irrelevant(which is far from the case it's the opposite) and this will happen in 40k.
Anyway this is not the point of the topic.
Thank you for the explanation. I thought I missed something happening and it already happened. Good to know I didn't miss anything yet.
So the Ahriman looks amazing but is there any info on the space wolves character or how many minis it comes with? i might sell the characters and add them to my 40k army.
Roknar wrote: I'd be more interested in the psychic powers. I'm still desperately holding on the chance of them not being 1:1 copies.
Why? Do you want inferior CSM versions?
Inferior? No. Different? Yes.
The redeeming part is that it makes sense fluff wise to keep them, given how the 30k marines got them too. But it's such a dull choice.
Their not even balanced considering the state of the base codex, though close enough I spose.
Where's the hate in these? Isn't the whole point of going rogue to relish in those juicy forbidden rituals and spells?
Thy're called sorcerers for a reason, these aren't warp fuelled at all. Maybe if they would let us use more warpcharges for psychic powers in general?
Stronger spells by risking more perils seems like a fluffy and appropriate mechanic.
giving us the same powers is just sooooo boring.
Roknar wrote: I'd be more interested in the psychic powers. I'm still desperately holding on the chance of them not being 1:1 copies.
Why? Do you want inferior CSM versions?
Inferior? No. Different? Yes.
For Chaos they mean the same thing. We're talking about an army who, in 3rd edition were limited to 3 heavy weapons per Havoc squad just so they could be "different" from Devastators.
shadowfinder wrote: Looking for the Spawn formation info. Did any one see it?
?
There is no spawn formation. They are an auxiliary choice.
Just like the Cult units sadly. Both of them don't have a page number where they could be specified so we can assume there are no additional rules to them.
Chikout wrote: Hastings just popped up in the war of sigmar comments section to say that we will be seeing Magnus Angorn, Mortarion, Russ and Guilliman in 40k.
So I notice that Fulgrim is missing from that list. Which makes sense given the rumors...
You mean the idiotic rantings of pedantic fear mongers?
Yeah. Good luck with that.
You know what does make sense?
Fulgrim staying in his pleasure palace because why bother invading the realspace when he can just snort 666 flavors of coke? Hastings said we will see X, Y and Z. That doesn't mean anything other than what it means.
I imagine something like Hedonism Bot in Futurama.
Fulgrim: Oooooh my, my brother primarchs are returning to realspace?! MORE WINE SERVANTS
Chaos Marine: But my lord, shouldn't we be there?
Fulgrim: Of course not! There will be time for battle, my sweet child *licks his face, winks* Until then, we cavort!
RE: Guilliman, fluff has always said that pilgrims swear that his wounds are healing. So nothing new. I'm honestly hoping this heralds a new 40k version that has the returned Primarchs in some small measure, leading their factions as separate factions e.g. Russ and the Wolves as mercenaries/pillagers (because Werewolf Vikings), Guilliman having a new Imperium (again? didn't he do that in a book?) in a parallel to the Byzantine Empire to the Imperium's Rome, etc.
RE: Traitor's Hate, it looks decent enough to make me indecisive again in what I want to play. Lucky for me I don't actually have much of anything assembled :p I mean, it doesn't look THAT bad. Competitive? No, but not garbage for casual/laid back games. I'm already debating doing a Chaos Warband as my first purchases, unless I choose to go with Daemonkin instead because let's be honest, they seem like they are more fun overall than regular Chaos even with this book.
Chikout wrote: Hastings just popped up in the war of sigmar comments section to say that we will be seeing Magnus Angorn, Mortarion, Russ and Guilliman in 40k.
Roknar wrote: I'd be more interested in the psychic powers. I'm still desperately holding on the chance of them not being 1:1 copies.
Why? Do you want inferior CSM versions?
Inferior? No. Different? Yes.
For Chaos they mean the same thing. We're talking about an army who, in 3rd edition were limited to 3 heavy weapons per Havoc squad just so they could be "different" from Devastators.
Well, the change in GW's ways can't be denied. So there is always hope. For me that hope also happens to involve deluding myself into the idea that the inclusion of the same powers is a fluff consideration rather than a sign of turning csm into spikey marines lol.
Roknar wrote: I'd be more interested in the psychic powers. I'm still desperately holding on the chance of them not being 1:1 copies.
Why? Do you want inferior CSM versions?
Inferior? No. Different? Yes.
For Chaos they mean the same thing. We're talking about an army who, in 3rd edition were limited to 3 heavy weapons per Havoc squad just so they could be "different" from Devastators.
Well, the change in GW's ways can't be denied. So there is always hope. For me that hope also happens to involve deluding myself into the idea that the inclusion of the same powers is a fluff consideration rather than a sign of turning csm into spikey marines lol.
I guess you're right. None of the Formation bonuses cause your dudes to kill themselves so I guess GW has turned over a new leaf with CSM.
redleger wrote: I mean, I like the thought of using Mortarion, but then I couldn't line him up on my shelf next to Mortarion. I mean WTF, it would be a never ending battle on my shelf, because Typhon hates Mortation, and Mortarion is a bad ass Daemon Prince. I would never get any sleep.
Yeah he'd be beside himself.
wow,not sure what happened. That totally should have been Typhon/Typhus. damn you cell phone!
Runic wrote: How would the Rhinos benefit from Shrouded against shooting when the DP+Possessed -formation only grants the bonuses at the start of the Fight sub-phase, lasting until the end of that turn. The Possessed of CS have a different wording on theirs (start of turn until next player turn) and directly contradict the Traitors Hate -formations wording. Ergo:
The Crimson slaughter book I have says they keep there buff until the start of the controlling players next turn, so you would keep shrouding in your opponents turn, then at the start of your turn you lose it, and then at the start of the fight sub phase you would regain shrouding and the 3+ invulnerable save, so the only thing you wouldn't benefit from is becoming beasts.
Do Thousand Sons have the Veterans of the Long War special rule? Are they Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines or Noise Marines?
It says they can't take the veterans of the long war special rule aka purchasing it, they aren't taking it, since they have it built in as apart of there profile.
If they couldn't take Daemon princes at all why would they bother having the Daemonheart relic outright say can't be taken by a daemon prince ?
Jesus Christ the HQ's don't pay for their Terminator Armor. That is going to make justifying Typhus a lot harder.
Maybe, but you do need 3 units of termies to get it for free, which are really rough in terms of options.
"
I was writing, arguing that this is pretty decent. Especially with the new powers. The best would be to stick 3 min sized units on a piece of terrain and port them around. Geomancy also happens to then give them ignore cover (from behind los-blocking cover...gogo modelling for advantage -_-).
It was all good until I reminded myself that all they get is regular old bolters. You can't even use the formation bonus with any ranged weapons worth a damn.
After shooting once, their combi bolters are used up so you can't fire them twice. In order to use the autocannons you'd need to buy an extra 6 at least, but that increases the cost so much you're better off with regular autocannon havocs. Hatred is useless for shooting and they can't assault after deepstriking, so in order to benefit from the rules you're almost forced to port them with a piece of terrain and then shoot and charge.... with combi-bolters. Except they only get to shoot twice if you deep strike so that's out too.
I dunno, I might be missing something, but this seems like a trap formation.
Runic wrote: How would the Rhinos benefit from Shrouded against shooting when the DP+Possessed -formation only grants the bonuses at the start of the Fight sub-phase, lasting until the end of that turn. The Possessed of CS have a different wording on theirs (start of turn until next player turn) and directly contradict the Traitors Hate -formations wording. Ergo:
The Crimson slaughter book I have says they keep there buff until the start of the controlling players next turn, so you would keep shrouding in your opponents turn, then at the start of your turn you lose it, and then at the start of the fight sub phase you would regain shrouding and the 3+ invulnerable save, so the only thing you wouldn't benefit from is becoming beasts.
That really makes no sense since you will never benefit from being a beast if it isn't active during your own movement phase, shooting or charge phase.
Edit: Nope, seems you're right. You ROLL at the start of your turn, get the effect at the start of the fight sub-phase and it ends at the start of your next turn. For one second it looked like chaos got thrown a bone.
Do Thousand Sons have the Veterans of the Long War special rule? Are they Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines or Noise Marines?
It says they can't take the veterans of the long war special rule aka purchasing it, they aren't taking it, since they have it built in as apart of there profile.
If they couldn't take Daemon princes at all why would they bother having the Daemonheart relic outright say can't be taken by a daemon prince ?
Do you have the old or current version of the CS supplement?
The newer one changed the wording completely to forbid taking units with VotLW if they aren't Noise Marines, Bezerkers or Plague Marines.
Do Thousand Sons have the Veterans of the Long War special rule? Are they Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines or Noise Marines?
It says they can't take the veterans of the long war special rule aka purchasing it, they aren't taking it, since they have it built in as apart of there profile.
If they couldn't take Daemon princes at all why would they bother having the Daemonheart relic outright say can't be taken by a daemon prince ?
Do you have the old or current version of the CS supplement?
The newer one changed the wording completely to forbid taking units with VotLW if they aren't Noise Marines, Bezerkers or Plague Marines.
The old one stated no unit can take VOTLW (except the cult troops)
The new one states no unit in a CS Detachment can HAVE the VOTLW rule.
So the slight different wording is what has people doubt the Daemon Prince.
Also note, the Daemonheart relic states cannot be taken by Daemon Prince.
And I guess they forgot about the Dark Apotheosis result that would give you VOTLW.
Jesus Christ the HQ's don't pay for their Terminator Armor. That is going to make justifying Typhus a lot harder.
Maybe, but you do need 3 units of termies to get it for free, which are really rough in terms of options.
"
I was writing, arguing that this is pretty decent. Especially with the new powers. The best would be to stick 3 min sized units on a piece of terrain and port them around. Geomancy also happens to then give them ignore cover (from behind los-blocking cover...gogo modelling for advantage -_-).
It was all good until I reminded myself that all they get is regular old bolters. You can't even use the formation bonus with any ranged weapons worth a damn.
After shooting once, their combi bolters are used up so you can't fire them twice. In order to use the autocannons you'd need to buy an extra 6 at least, but that increases the cost so much you're better off with regular autocannon havocs. Hatred is useless for shooting and they can't assault after deepstriking, so in order to benefit from the rules you're almost forced to port them with a piece of terrain and then shoot and charge.... with combi-bolters. Except they only get to shoot twice if you deep strike so that's out too.
I dunno, I might be missing something, but this seems like a trap formation.
I think you're under-estimating the flexibility the formation offers. It allows you to target Interceptors before they shoot your Terminators or other Deep Striking units (i.e. the Raptors in the formation that lets them assault from reserves), it essentially lets you run after shooting to get on an objective or spread out against incoming fire, it lets you do things like destroy a transport then shoot the unit inside (do this against something like a Wave Serpent with Fire Dragons inside, they don't resist twin-linked bolter fire that well) or destroy a big target (i.e. Riptide) and kill a lesser infantry unit (i.e. Pathfinders/Marker Drones) all in the same turn. Terminators are Terminators, even with just bare Power Weapons they are still stronger than your average unit in a melee so the Hatred buff is more of a nice added bonus. Termicide Terminators (i.e. small units with combi-weapons and power weapons) are relatively inexpensive, can do a lot of damage and get the benefit of being aided by a Chaos Lord with free Terminator armour (which is super good, he's basically a half price Terminator Captain who loses out on a 4++ but can pay for that or a 3++) who can also take a combi-weapon. The formation is hardly "a trap", if you use your brain you can put the buffs to good use. Say what you want about bolters, you can still ping off units that survive by hiding out of sight/range with them fairly easily. Especially if you slag a transport ferrying vulnerable infantry on the turn you drop. I'm not saying it's by any means a great formation but implying that it's a trap is tomfoolery.
Slayer le boucher wrote: I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...
Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...
To show off the new model in the picture.
GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.
Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.
Slayer le boucher wrote: I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...
Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...
To show off the new model in the picture.
GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.
Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.
People kee saying that Kharn needs to be better. No, he doesnt. He is already fantastic.
What needs to be better is the Chaos Space Marine melee delivery system. Fix that, you 'fix' Kharn.
Slayer le boucher wrote: I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...
Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...
To show off the new model in the picture.
GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.
Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.
People kee saying that Kharn needs to be better. No, he doesnt. He is already fantastic.
What needs to be better is the Chaos Space Marine melee delivery system. Fix that, you 'fix' Kharn.
i dunno, i wouldn't mind something to help keep a T4 character alive past that 4++, considering he's supposed to be notoriously difficult to kill, and IH chapter master random has a 2+/3++ (possibly rerollable), jink, T5, EW, and a possible 2+ FNP.
but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.
The formations would be good and rather good IF the CSM and terminators had the same weapon loadouts as the SM. And why in the love of Khorne would you have to make a disordered chargé with the raptors? Why not just a ordinary charge? I Realy dont get it. Check out the formations they created when they made a formation for RG. No scatter if within 9" of scouts, Charge after DS with up to 3 Vanguard units. If the formation is taken as a decurion you have all this godies R1. Thats insane!
I'm seeing a lot of battered wife syndrome going on here. Once you compare these to what SM get you realize these aren't really "good" - they're just "good... for Chaos".
Slayer le boucher wrote: I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...
Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...
To show off the new model in the picture.
GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.
Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.
People kee saying that Kharn needs to be better. No, he doesnt. He is already fantastic.
What needs to be better is the Chaos Space Marine melee delivery system. Fix that, you 'fix' Kharn.
i dunno, i wouldn't mind something to help keep a T4 character alive past that 4++, considering he's supposed to be notoriously difficult to kill, and IH chapter master random has a 2+/3++ (possibly rerollable), jink, T5, EW, and a possible 2+ FNP.
but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.
or, just get rid of grav. i'm cool with that too.
That Chapter Master costs 265+ points though. What were you expecting? Kharn is 100 less points...
Slayer le boucher wrote: I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...
Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...
To show off the new model in the picture.
GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.
Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.
People kee saying that Kharn needs to be better. No, he doesnt. He is already fantastic.
What needs to be better is the Chaos Space Marine melee delivery system. Fix that, you 'fix' Kharn.
i dunno, i wouldn't mind something to help keep a T4 character alive past that 4++, considering he's supposed to be notoriously difficult to kill, and IH chapter master random has a 2+/3++ (possibly rerollable), jink, T5, EW, and a possible 2+ FNP.
but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.
or, just get rid of grav. i'm cool with that too.
That Chapter Master costs 265+ points though. What were you expecting? Kharn is 100 less points...
Wrong. An IH captain with a Chain of Gorgon, Cataphractii Terminator armor (for the rerollable invul), a chainfist and a combimelta is only 20 points more than Kharn.
but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.
If that's all you're looking for in a delivery system, check out Spawn.
You need one that can carry all of our 6" move infantry 12-18" a turn though. We already know Spawn are the answer to getting a juggerlord or nurgle fisty-claw biker into combat, it's the footsloggers that need help.
i dunno, i wouldn't mind something to help keep a T4 character alive past that 4++, considering he's supposed to be notoriously difficult to kill, and IH chapter master random has a 2+/3++ (possibly rerollable), jink, T5, EW, and a possible 2+ FNP.
but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.
or, just get rid of grav. i'm cool with that too.
Might be me but I would prefer get rid of the IH type of combos. Power level is too up high and night on unkillable with basic weapon guys aren't even fun.
That's why I also prefer 2nd ed. No matter who you are looking at you can kill it. Even humble lascannon is of a worry to guys like daemon princes, greater daemons etc. Basic marine characters only really reliable tool from getting pasted is not get shot in the first place...
You don't want to try charging across open field against squad with lascannon with lone chapter master in 2nd ed. It's walk in the park in 7th ed.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: I'm seeing a lot of battered wife syndrome going on here. Once you compare these to what SM get you realize these aren't really "good" - they're just "good... for Chaos".
Pretty much this. The underlying and fundamental flaws of the CSM codex , particularly with pricing, doesn't suddenly fix themselves by adding more rules. Our big formation gives us Hatred and +1LD... its nice they're for free... but loyalist units get more before they even take formations.
Trying to discover more about this week's releases, we are looking at a lot of Blood Angels on the pre-order list. A new Blood Angels supplement called the Angels Blade tops the list. Here is the latest.
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Black Crusade: Angels Blade (Blood Angel Supplement)
Blood Angels: Death Company Strike Froce
Blood Angles: Archangels Orbital Intervention Force
Blood Angles: Chapter Ancients
Blood Angel Assault Squad
Blood Angel Stern Guard Veteran Squad
Blood Angel Company Command
The Beast Arises 10: Last Son of Dorn (Book)
The Red Path (Book)
Blood Angels!
Two weeks ago I bought and built a full Sternguard squad for my successors...
Interested to know what the chapter ancients could be.
"Fezza213
My prediction, Guilliman returns and takes back the mantle of lord commander of the imperium. Sensing the impending doom the adeptus custodes become Guillimans personal body guard while leaving a token force to guard the emperor. New 40k army is released in the form of adeptus custodes with Guilliman as their leader (Ultramarines are sad but Guilliman uses them as the other space marines use the imperial guard, front line fodder)."
75hastings69 • 8 hours ago
Some of this would tie in with what I heard. I asked in a different thread what is better than marines...... answer new marines "
So Custodes as the "new marines" I could see it happening..Good to see Steve out about spreading rumours again!!
[sorry of the text I just copied and pasted what I could and apologies if this has been posted.]
He edited his comment saying Skaven not "plague army". EDIT: Nevermind looked at the wrong comment.
I guess its probably too early to be excited for Nurgle Daemonkin?
What else could it be? Its gotta be Nurgle Daemonkin. Right?
But hastings could've just said that. Except he didn't. He said 'new plague army.'
Thats an obvious fit for Nurgle Daemonkin, but Sad Panda/Atia said earlier in the year(if i recall correctly) that there wouldnt be any more 'Darmonkin' codexi.
So if not Nurgle Daemonkin, what?
It could be a Nurgle 'sourcebook'. Less a mishmash of Csm and CD but more a full-fledged expansion for nurgle.
It could also be...and let me finish.
The Hrud.
The Hrud, while obscure, do naturally have a time entropy field that is fairly plague-like in results. It's a long shot, but after this year, I'd say its possible.
Plastic Custodes models will be in the next HH boardgame according to Sad Panda. Sisters of Silence as well. That 'Guilliman storyline' getting a comment from Hastings though, is new info
Automatically Appended Next Post: A Deathguard-focused campaign book, maybe? Like in End Times with several plastic kits? Blight drones, Plague Marines and Mortarion?
Trying to discover more about this week's releases, we are looking at a lot of Blood Angels on the pre-order list. A new Blood Angels supplement called the Angels Blade tops the list. Here is the latest.
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Black Crusade: Angels Blade (Blood Angel Supplement)
Blood Angels: Death Company Strike Froce
Blood Angles: Archangels Orbital Intervention Force
Blood Angles: Chapter Ancients
Blood Angel Assault Squad
Blood Angel Stern Guard Veteran Squad
Blood Angel Company Command
The Beast Arises 10: Last Son of Dorn (Book)
The Red Path (Book)
Blood Angels!
Two weeks ago I bought and built a full Sternguard squad for my successors...
Interested to know what the chapter ancients could be.
So loyalist chapters not only get their own special codexes, now they also get codex supplements? It's like "Hey, let's do new CSM supplements! So who should we flesh out some more.. oh, I know, how about some loyalist chapters?" This lack of love for traitor legions is getting a bit silly
The chapter ancients is probably 2x Dread box, my guess.
Warhams-77 wrote: Plastic Custodes models will be in the next HH boardgame according to Sad Panda. Sisters of Silence as well. That 'Guilliman storyline' getting a comment from Hastings though, is new info
Automatically Appended Next Post: A Deathguard-focused campaign book, maybe? Like in End Times with several plastic kits? Blight drones, Plague Marines and Mortarion?
Yeah- Custodes in the next boardgame, returning Primarchs- it makes sense for a Custodes army to head the counter crusade and plus it gives GW the new "elite marine" range to push- sets the tone to almost Heresy levels. I hope the xenos up their games in some way as well- a new evolution of Tyranids, new Tau advances, ancient tech employed by the older races [eldar/necrons] and bigger, badder orks.
The plague army- plague zombies with cult options from the Plague guard could be quite likely- maybe dedicated daemon engines?
Tyranid got a crap ton of monstrous beasties... tyranid armies are not fun to play against with nidzilla armies. Eldar got d spam, tau got a gazillion new toys, I think it's time the imperium and chaos gets more love (chaos needs it... they've been, well, lacking for some time now.
Warhams-77 wrote: Plastic Custodes models will be in the next HH boardgame according to Sad Panda. Sisters of Silence as well. That 'Guilliman storyline' getting a comment from Hastings though, is new info
Automatically Appended Next Post: A Deathguard-focused campaign book, maybe? Like in End Times with several plastic kits? Blight drones, Plague Marines and Mortarion?
While id love to see new nurgle stuff I don't think they would. They didn't with khorne even though they could have but chose not to bother. Could easily update the ridiculously old berzerkers, made plastic blood slaughterers etc
455_PWR wrote: Tyranid got a crap ton of monstrous beasties... tyranid armies are not fun to play against with nidzilla armies. Eldar got d spam, tau got a gazillion new toys, I think it's time the imperium and chaos gets more love (chaos needs it... they've been, well, lacking for some time now.
More thinking models and fluff for the xenos - not taking away from Chaos' need at all.
I've still got very mixed feelings about this supplement.
Between Heldrake Terror Pack and the Raptor Talon formation I think you've got a good basis to make a scary, dirty-fighting Night Lords army. Pop Mark of Slaanesh on the Chaos Lord (To represent his likeliness to sucker-punch, as opposed to daemonic allegiance) and give him the Murder Sword and for 115 points you've got one scary-ass character killer.
With all the vehicle formations now on offer between our various books I think putting together an Iron Warriors themed army is definitely doable.
The new detachment is perfect for Black Legion or Word Bearers, with their champions constantly seeking out new ways to appease the gods and receive their favor.
It's a shame Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children have been shafted. I'm also not a fan of the formation sizes - I don't like having to field more than 2 of the same unit, so 3+ and 4+ requirements make me sad.
I think Possessed getting all 3 mutations is really cool, it's just a shame you've got to keep them within 12" of the Daemon Prince to benefit. If this formation had just been 2+ units of Possessed with all 3 mutations as a flat bonus I really would have considered using them as Crimson Slaughter.
The Obliterator formation is daft. I've never understood why they have to swap their weapons after firing and this new formation just makes it even more annoying.
Ultimately they could have just made this a dark mirror of Angels of Death. If they'd put the same amount of effort in we'd have finally gotten our Legion Tactics, new Artefacts for each Legion and unique detachments. Instead it's sort of... another half-effort.
Any chance somebody can finally enlighten us to the Psychic Powers?
Edit: It's also a shame the Chaos Warband's "Favoured Scions" rule specifically states it only grants an additional roll on the boon table as a result of the Champion of Chaos special rule. If it had applied to the Boon of Mutation psychic power and Gift of Mutation it would be crazy-cool.
Sorry for the nooblet question, but how does the timing around these rumors typically work out? Like, if we're hearing about upcoming preorders for BA stuff, when should we expect to see those go up?
New HH box with plastic Custodes also sounds amazing. As someone who's just dipping his toes back into 40k and trying to do it in a limited fashion, I love the variety that exists in all of these boxed games that lets me get a little bit of all sorts of cool stuff in a form I can actually use!
Edit: It's also a shame the Chaos Warband's "Favoured Scions" rule specifically states it only grants an additional roll on the boon table as a result of the Champion of Chaos special rule. If it had applied to the Boon of Mutation psychic power and Gift of Mutation it would be crazy-cool.
Slaves to the Darkness allows this, but for one character a turn.
None at all sorry. There are other 40k things too..... new plague army, rubric marines & LoC etc. etc. but I have no idea when any of it is due out. I was expecting the GS Cult codex to hit by end of 2016 but I'm not so sure now.
Jesus Christ the HQ's don't pay for their Terminator Armor. That is going to make justifying Typhus a lot harder.
Maybe, but you do need 3 units of termies to get it for free, which are really rough in terms of options.
"
I was writing, arguing that this is pretty decent. Especially with the new powers. The best would be to stick 3 min sized units on a piece of terrain and port them around. Geomancy also happens to then give them ignore cover (from behind los-blocking cover...gogo modelling for advantage -_-).
It was all good until I reminded myself that all they get is regular old bolters. You can't even use the formation bonus with any ranged weapons worth a damn.
After shooting once, their combi bolters are used up so you can't fire them twice. In order to use the autocannons you'd need to buy an extra 6 at least, but that increases the cost so much you're better off with regular autocannon havocs. Hatred is useless for shooting and they can't assault after deepstriking, so in order to benefit from the rules you're almost forced to port them with a piece of terrain and then shoot and charge.... with combi-bolters. Except they only get to shoot twice if you deep strike so that's out too.
I dunno, I might be missing something, but this seems like a trap formation.
I think you're under-estimating the flexibility the formation offers. It allows you to target Interceptors before they shoot your Terminators or other Deep Striking units (i.e. the Raptors in the formation that lets them assault from reserves), it essentially lets you run after shooting to get on an objective or spread out against incoming fire, it lets you do things like destroy a transport then shoot the unit inside (do this against something like a Wave Serpent with Fire Dragons inside, they don't resist twin-linked bolter fire that well) or destroy a big target (i.e. Riptide) and kill a lesser infantry unit (i.e. Pathfinders/Marker Drones) all in the same turn. Terminators are Terminators, even with just bare Power Weapons they are still stronger than your average unit in a melee so the Hatred buff is more of a nice added bonus. Termicide Terminators (i.e. small units with combi-weapons and power weapons) are relatively inexpensive, can do a lot of damage and get the benefit of being aided by a Chaos Lord with free Terminator armour (which is super good, he's basically a half price Terminator Captain who loses out on a 4++ but can pay for that or a 3++) who can also take a combi-weapon. The formation is hardly "a trap", if you use your brain you can put the buffs to good use. Say what you want about bolters, you can still ping off units that survive by hiding out of sight/range with them fairly easily. Especially if you slag a transport ferrying vulnerable infantry on the turn you drop. I'm not saying it's by any means a great formation but implying that it's a trap is tomfoolery.
A single Termicide unit has a whopping 3, maybe 4 bolters. Those aren't going to do anything at all. Especially if taking out a tank because then you're literally only firing 4/8 NON-twinlinked bolter shots.
The ability to fire before being mulched by interceptor is nice, but who actually uses interceptor? Tau and maybe admech? I don't know how popular admech are, but that seems like a token advantage to me. 85-90 % o the time you're going to land/mishap and fire you're combi weapons like you always do. And more often than not you won't even be able to use the rule, since that would mean landing all 3 units within range of the target unit. If one unit doesn't make it, they just sit still because you can only run in the shooting phase.
Sure you can mark a tank and then fire and scatter, but is that really something you want to pay some 400 points for? You're only making 3 guys harder to hit with blast weapons, normal ranged fire is unaffected.
Especially next to a formation that can do about as much damage for the same cost, but can then assault rather than scatter and isn't forced to deepstrike in the same area. Well unless you want to use the leadership debuff, which is about as helpful as the hatred buff.
They also have a lord which isn't decorational.
The shooting part of the rule is pretty much useless imho. It provides so little a benefit that you may as well forget about it. You're actually better of taking 2 termicide units that you use normally and put the third unit with the lord into a raider to charge into the designated unit. That way you can skip the apostle for re-rolls to hit. I don't know of anybody that actually uses that many terminators but I spose that's something you could do. Except you then need a land raider which makes this bad again.
The formation has barely any practical benefit beyond letting one termicide unit scatter to MAYBE save one guy. If we had more ranged options for our HQs besides the burning brand this would have been good.
Though I have to admit, that being able to drop two AP3 torrent flamers onto potentially two different units sounds like it could be fun. Which also supports leaving the terminators completely barebones. Save perhaps for combi flamers if you have the balls to deepstrike that closely.
Slayer le boucher wrote: I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...
Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...
To show off the new model in the picture.
GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.
Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.
People kee saying that Kharn needs to be better. No, he doesnt. He is already fantastic.
What needs to be better is the Chaos Space Marine melee delivery system. Fix that, you 'fix' Kharn.
i dunno, i wouldn't mind something to help keep a T4 character alive past that 4++, considering he's supposed to be notoriously difficult to kill, and IH chapter master random has a 2+/3++ (possibly rerollable), jink, T5, EW, and a possible 2+ FNP.
but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.
or, just get rid of grav. i'm cool with that too.
That Chapter Master costs 265+ points though. What were you expecting? Kharn is 100 less points...
Wrong. An IH captain with a Chain of Gorgon, Cataphractii Terminator armor (for the rerollable invul), a chainfist and a combimelta is only 20 points more than Kharn.
LOL you mean the build that nobody uses? Okay.
You're always buying a bike and because of that a Thunder Hammer. The mobility and T5 is more valuable to people you do realize? Anyone can realistically kit out a Captain similar to the price of Kharn, but nobody does.
Edit: It's also a shame the Chaos Warband's "Favoured Scions" rule specifically states it only grants an additional roll on the boon table as a result of the Champion of Chaos special rule. If it had applied to the Boon of Mutation psychic power and Gift of Mutation it would be crazy-cool.
Slaves to the Darkness allows this, but for one character a turn.
Oh really? That's cool! But I don't remember where to find that rule, what book/unit/formation is it from?
Edit: It's also a shame the Chaos Warband's "Favoured Scions" rule specifically states it only grants an additional roll on the boon table as a result of the Champion of Chaos special rule. If it had applied to the Boon of Mutation psychic power and Gift of Mutation it would be crazy-cool.
Slaves to the Darkness allows this, but for one character a turn.
Oh really? That's cool! But I don't remember where to find that rule, what book/unit/formation is it from?
It's the command benefit of the Chaos decurion. 1 boon table each turn for 1 character. If you have the Favoured Scions rule you get 2 rolls.
That doesn't necessarily mean you get the dual roll for boon of mutation and/or gift of mutation. I had made a thread about that when the BL supplement hit but I got no answers. Boon of mutation does mention the champion of chaos rule and is dangerous enough imho to not be OP with two rolls, but I doubt it's possible/intended.
Roknar wrote: That doesn't necessarily mean you get the dual roll for boon of mutation and/or gift of mutation. I had made a thread about that when the BL supplement hit but I got no answers. Boon of mutation does mention the champion of chaos rule and is dangerous enough imho to not be OP with two rolls, but I doubt it's possible/intended.
The command benefit specifically states "Champion of Chaos" rule, which triggers the Favored of Scions rule, so yeah you get the two rolls on turn one.
That's not what I meant. The decurion gives you a free roll on the boon table or two if its a character from the warband, including turn one.
But the scion rule gives you two rolls whenever you earn a roll as per the champion of chaos rule. And boon of mutation gives you a roll on the boon table also as per the champion of chaos rule. That raises the question whether the scion rule also appiles to boon of mutation. Allowing two rolls instead of one from the power.
Roknar wrote: That's not what I meant. The decurion gives you a free roll on the boon table or two if its a character from the warband, including turn one.
But the scion rule gives you two rolls whenever you earn a roll as per the champion of chaos rule. And boon of mutation gives you a roll on the boon table also as per the champion of chaos rule. That raises the question whether the scion rule also appiles to boon of mutation. Allowing two rolls instead of one from the power.
The Terminator bonus is basically a "Shoot and Run" though I can see it being...cute with a Burning Brand. And Tau are relevant enough that being able to negate Interceptor is not unwelcome. Alas, that Chaos Terminator options are fairly underwhelming themselves...*shrug*
What I want to know is (if other ways to mitigate DS Scatter come about) whether one can do shenanigans with Weapon Emplacements and the Targeted For Annihilation ability (mass-firing the same Macro-Cannon).
I do like the relative flexibility of the Chaos Warband, and universal obsec is very nice indeed.
There was an interesting comment on facebook about the heldrake formation.
How exactly are we supposed to benefit from vector striking pinned units. Units falling back will be rare but possible. Units that have gone to ground is all but impossible. Only the terminator annihilation force even has a chance to make that happen. WEll technically overwatching could cause that to happen but who in their right mind would go to ground from overwatch? But even they can't cause pinning. So how the hell are you supposed to pin a unit before the psychic phase. Both GtG and pinning have already worn off by the time the movement phase of your next turn comes up and we can't exactly shoot in the opponents turn.
Is it possible to pin a unit during overwatch? Checked that and no that's not possible.
streetsamurai wrote: it's starting to get really boring that the bonus every assault units/armies gains is to move faster.
Isn't that what assault units need though? I mean, I played in 3rd during the "Rhino Rush" days when BA could overcharge or whatever it was called and get into assault range Turn 1. In an edition where shooting is the main way of dealing damage, what else would you give assault-oriented units and armies to help them close the gap and not get shot off the board?
Don't mention AoS in this thread. It makes a lot of sphincters really tight...
That's because there's a large majority (it would seem) who would object strongly to the whole universe being utterly destroyed and all the old fluff abandoned.
I suspect if, rather than phrasing it as "AOSify 40K" you simply said "remove a lot of rules bloat from 40K and streamline the whole thing" you'd receive a very different reaction.
Slayer le boucher wrote: I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...
Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...
To show off the new model in the picture.
GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.
Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.
People kee saying that Kharn needs to be better. No, he doesnt. He is already fantastic.
What needs to be better is the Chaos Space Marine melee delivery system. Fix that, you 'fix' Kharn.
i dunno, i wouldn't mind something to help keep a T4 character alive past that 4++, considering he's supposed to be notoriously difficult to kill, and IH chapter master random has a 2+/3++ (possibly rerollable), jink, T5, EW, and a possible 2+ FNP.
but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.
or, just get rid of grav. i'm cool with that too.
That Chapter Master costs 265+ points though. What were you expecting? Kharn is 100 less points...
Wrong. An IH captain with a Chain of Gorgon, Cataphractii Terminator armor (for the rerollable invul), a chainfist and a combimelta is only 20 points more than Kharn.
LOL you mean the build that nobody uses? Okay.
You're always buying a bike and because of that a Thunder Hammer. The mobility and T5 is more valuable to people you do realize? Anyone can realistically kit out a Captain similar to the price of Kharn, but nobody does.
I use it all the time. He's a complete beat-stick in combat because he takes a whupping and then counters with a haymaker. Adding him to a unit of cataphractii terminators makes him even more beat-stick. He can even deep strike, so that's better than kharn's delivery system, no?
Basically a big redo of the rules or a big change in thinking on what units types are is the only way to fix 40k now.
AoS rules change maybe IDK....but the 40k rules/codex are horrible right now, I hear it from everyone I know and its my opinion as well. Its why so many people moved to the more playable/balanced 30k.
The tons of vehicles counting as monstrous creatures with high T and lots of wounds BS they did...plus super friends has killed off almost any interest many have in 40k.
in an AoS type system they could make marines/normal troops usable again---as right now they are nothing but pieces to be shot off the board or be obj sec and sit and not die as long as possible...so basically worthless short of the marines horde of bodies type armies for scoring points.
In AoS type system a marines would just have a flat wound rating no matter how big the baddy/T vehicles/monstrous creature they were attacking and be somewhat usable again.
Any reboot would/should hopefully be better than the mess the current writers have made of the system. They need to bring in a new game rules program manager to oversee a system that makes sense and at least has some balance. im fine with some units being cool/cooler than others but right now balance is a wasted mess.
But if you do mathhammer, kharn is better. If you pit them against eachother, kharn wins (ap2, almost double attacks, almost all will hit, most will wound eBen agains t5). Comparing him to a space marine captain is also a bit unrealistic. Chaos doesn't have many of the options or point cost reductions that the space Maries have had since they have had two codex books and several supplements in the time of one chaos book. This entire argument has become apples vs oranges.
He can be used very effectively with other options (forgeworld drop pods, etc). In reality, he is an amazing character with two downsides: only 5++ and no eternal warrior (when he is reincarnated in the fluff?). Those are the only problems I've seen or ran into when using him.
He works well in a chaos drop pod from fw, a land raider, rhino,n or in a large mob of marines or cultists. He has turned the tired of games in the past for sure.
As for the apples vs oranges argument, cataphract only gives you a reroll on a 1, you still fail about 36% of the time, and everyone knows terminator armor is easy to crack these days. T5 is also fairly easy to beat with heavy weapons, mcs, fleshbane, and a plethora of ap2 and d weapons out there. No character is invincible and striking at I1 is horrible unless you are going up against a normal ap3 melee character with average strength. Those are good characters, but once in melee kharn and many other characters (abaddon, calgar, ragnar, logan) are far better.
Roknar wrote: There was an interesting comment on facebook about the heldrake formation.
How exactly are we supposed to benefit from vector striking pinned units. Units falling back will be rare but possible. Units that have gone to ground is all but impossible. Only the terminator annihilation force even has a chance to make that happen. WEll technically overwatching could cause that to happen but who in their right mind would go to ground from overwatch? But even they can't cause pinning. So how the hell are you supposed to pin a unit before the psychic phase. Both GtG and pinning have already worn off by the time the movement phase of your next turn comes up and we can't exactly shoot in the opponents turn.
Is it possible to pin a unit during overwatch? Checked that and no that's not possible.
I'm glad you brought this up. I was thinking about it last night how the Heldrakes would never be able to get the d6 from vector striking a pinning unit since they get pinned in the shooting phase and the Heldrake vector strikes in the movement phase. Go to Ground will also happen in the shooting phase and a Falling back unit will most likely recover or go off the table edge by the time the Heldrakes move phase comes back up.
At first it seemed like a cool ability, but in reality it can almost never occur because of the core rules of the game. Ha.
Overall I'm not all doom and gloom about this supplement. I think it deserves a chance and possibly can be a successful mid to upper mid tier codex. Comparing this to any of the broken formations or combinations is unrealistic and unproductive.
Don't mention AoS in this thread. It makes a lot of sphincters really tight...
That's because there's a large majority (it would seem) who would object strongly to the whole universe being utterly destroyed and all the old fluff abandoned.
I suspect if, rather than phrasing it as "AOSify 40K" you simply said "remove a lot of rules bloat from 40K and streamline the whole thing" you'd receive a very different reaction.
Fluff wise, no, rules wise yes.
Could you imagine if Bolters always wounded on 4+ and Heavy Bolters wounded on 3+? Characters that buff units, but cannot be attached. Vehicles with a save roll. Thats what I want.
No one wants 40k to be sigmared story setting wise. 40k lore is so much better than the gak that was fantasy (no offence wfb fans) but the 40k rules are a complete mess and embarrassing frankly. The 40K rules need a total, complete overhaul and if they do it like they did with AoS and generals handbook and they updated everything like they done 40k would likely be THE GAME to play. That's not a bad thing, its a good thing. Update all the forces then have general books, imperial, chaos and xenos then have split off factions.
As for on topic this is merely book 1 of black crusade. Hopefully the next chaos installment will be a bit meatier
The topic here is "GW News & Rumours [40K]: 30k Ahriman, 40k Kharn, Void Shield gen & CSM Black Crusade supplement" - please keep the AoS stuff in the AoS thread(s).
Roknar wrote: There was an interesting comment on facebook about the heldrake formation.
How exactly are we supposed to benefit from vector striking pinned units. Units falling back will be rare but possible. Units that have gone to ground is all but impossible. Only the terminator annihilation force even has a chance to make that happen. WEll technically overwatching could cause that to happen but who in their right mind would go to ground from overwatch? But even they can't cause pinning. So how the hell are you supposed to pin a unit before the psychic phase. Both GtG and pinning have already worn off by the time the movement phase of your next turn comes up and we can't exactly shoot in the opponents turn.
Is it possible to pin a unit during overwatch? Checked that and no that's not possible.
Slayer le boucher wrote: I don't even see the point of doing a new Kharn datasheet, if its not to modify it in any form...
Since you still need the CSM codex for the rest of the units and rules...
To show off the new model in the picture.
GW is getting better with models and releases, and (mostly) on pricing. But they need to work on the rules still. No update to Kharn is as bad as merely tacking on the new stats to fliers in DFtS and not trying to fix the problem planes.
Direction seems to be changing for the better, but still, supertankers are slow to move.
People kee saying that Kharn needs to be better. No, he doesnt. He is already fantastic.
What needs to be better is the Chaos Space Marine melee delivery system. Fix that, you 'fix' Kharn.
i dunno, i wouldn't mind something to help keep a T4 character alive past that 4++, considering he's supposed to be notoriously difficult to kill, and IH chapter master random has a 2+/3++ (possibly rerollable), jink, T5, EW, and a possible 2+ FNP.
but, yes, for the love of all that is evil, grav-proof delivery system is needed.
or, just get rid of grav. i'm cool with that too.
That Chapter Master costs 265+ points though. What were you expecting? Kharn is 100 less points...
Wrong. An IH captain with a Chain of Gorgon, Cataphractii Terminator armor (for the rerollable invul), a chainfist and a combimelta is only 20 points more than Kharn.
LOL you mean the build that nobody uses? Okay.
You're always buying a bike and because of that a Thunder Hammer. The mobility and T5 is more valuable to people you do realize? Anyone can realistically kit out a Captain similar to the price of Kharn, but nobody does.
I use it all the time. He's a complete beat-stick in combat because he takes a whupping and then counters with a haymaker. Adding him to a unit of cataphractii terminators makes him even more beat-stick. He can even deep strike, so that's better than kharn's delivery system, no?
Now the fact you're saying that adding him to a Terminator unit adds to his beatstickness makes me question whether or not to take you seriously. Terminators are garbage, regular or Craphactii.
Not to say Kharn has a better delivery system. You have to use the new formation or use an Assault Claw or sling him up with Hounds. The latter isn't even hard with some practice (I've been having to do similar things with Wraithstar), so I'd advocate for a combination of the former and the latter. Assault Claws are pretty darned expensive so I overall advise against it unless you got guaranteed Invisibility from Belakor. That's probably a good sized game.
Cant believe I have survived without internet for this long, just got back online, so many things to catch up on. My WD arrived early in the week and since I wasnt able to see kill team release, seeing it first time in the WD brought back a little nostalgia of being a kid in the hobby.
Overall loved the new WD, sooooo happy its back to monthly. I'm still going back to read it now and again.
So ready for the next Black Crusade. The Templars will have a field day.
Well if the powers are indeed the same we have at least two psychic powers to enable first turn assault. I haven't seen the Angels of death powers in action so I dunno how well that'S working out for marines, but it sounds like the best way to get our units into assault right now.
Trying to discover more about this week's releases, we are looking at a lot of Blood Angels on the pre-order list. A new Blood Angels supplement called the Angels Blade tops the list. Here is the latest.
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Black Crusade: Angels Blade (Blood Angel Supplement)
Blood Angels: Death Company Strike Froce
Blood Angles: Archangels Orbital Intervention Force
Blood Angles: Chapter Ancients
Blood Angel Assault Squad
Blood Angel Stern Guard Veteran Squad
Blood Angel Company Command
The Beast Arises 10: Last Son of Dorn (Book)
The Red Path (Book)
well i just through out my command squad!!! i dont like the old bases
Blood Angels!
Two weeks ago I bought and built a full Sternguard squad for my successors...
Interested to know what the chapter ancients could be.
Roknar wrote: Well if the powers are indeed the same we have at least two psychic powers to enable first turn assault. I haven't seen the Angels of death powers in action so I dunno how well that'S working out for marines, but it sounds like the best way to get our units into assault right now.
Infiltrate a unit of TS, move up in the Rhino, cast the power on the Rhino, swap the sorcerer and his melee bodyguards, declare charge?
Roknar wrote: There was an interesting comment on facebook about the heldrake formation.
How exactly are we supposed to benefit from vector striking pinned units. Units falling back will be rare but possible. Units that have gone to ground is all but impossible. Only the terminator annihilation force even has a chance to make that happen. WEll technically overwatching could cause that to happen but who in their right mind would go to ground from overwatch? But even they can't cause pinning. So how the hell are you supposed to pin a unit before the psychic phase. Both GtG and pinning have already worn off by the time the movement phase of your next turn comes up and we can't exactly shoot in the opponents turn.
Is it possible to pin a unit during overwatch? Checked that and no that's not possible.
I'm glad you brought this up. I was thinking about it last night how the Heldrakes would never be able to get the d6 from vector striking a pinning unit since they get pinned in the shooting phase and the Heldrake vector strikes in the movement phase. Go to Ground will also happen in the shooting phase and a Falling back unit will most likely recover or go off the table edge by the time the Heldrakes move phase comes back up.
At first it seemed like a cool ability, but in reality it can almost never occur because of the core rules of the game. Ha.
Overall I'm not all doom and gloom about this supplement. I think it deserves a chance and possibly can be a successful mid to upper mid tier codex. Comparing this to any of the broken formations or combinations is unrealistic and unproductive.
Obviously they expect us to tank shock them.....obviously...
It be nice if we got catapractii, it would give Tzeentch a viable army since Tzeentch catapractii would be awesome and you could do a full cataphractii terminator army with the formation.
Roknar wrote: There was an interesting comment on facebook about the heldrake formation.
How exactly are we supposed to benefit from vector striking pinned units. Units falling back will be rare but possible. Units that have gone to ground is all but impossible. Only the terminator annihilation force even has a chance to make that happen. WEll technically overwatching could cause that to happen but who in their right mind would go to ground from overwatch? But even they can't cause pinning. So how the hell are you supposed to pin a unit before the psychic phase. Both GtG and pinning have already worn off by the time the movement phase of your next turn comes up and we can't exactly shoot in the opponents turn.
Is it possible to pin a unit during overwatch? Checked that and no that's not possible.
Only way to use this with pinning is pregame via the Warlord Trait everyone rerolls so they can get infiltrate or cover in ruins.
Apart from forgetting that tank shocks exists, that still doesn't allow you to pin. Although it might allow for the odd silly list involving a lot of destroyer blades lol. Using Blood of Mackan and Scourge of the Greenskins for good measure.
Roknar wrote: There was an interesting comment on facebook about the heldrake formation.
How exactly are we supposed to benefit from vector striking pinned units. Units falling back will be rare but possible. Units that have gone to ground is all but impossible. Only the terminator annihilation force even has a chance to make that happen. WEll technically overwatching could cause that to happen but who in their right mind would go to ground from overwatch? But even they can't cause pinning. So how the hell are you supposed to pin a unit before the psychic phase. Both GtG and pinning have already worn off by the time the movement phase of your next turn comes up and we can't exactly shoot in the opponents turn.
Is it possible to pin a unit during overwatch? Checked that and no that's not possible.
Only way to use this with pinning is pregame via the Warlord Trait everyone rerolls so they can get infiltrate or cover in ruins.
Not even then. That forces pinning on the first turn only and that would require a landing pad to even have a drake, which then wouldn't be allowed to zoom iirc.
Roknar wrote: Well if the powers are indeed the same we have at least two psychic powers to enable first turn assault. I haven't seen the Angels of death powers in action so I dunno how well that'S working out for marines, but it sounds like the best way to get our units into assault right now.
Actually though.....that would literally make me complete my CSM army immediately. Need a delivery system? Here have a heretic version of the SM "teleport a unit across the board and assault"
Would make a ton of sense that CSM have very similar but corrupted powers.
Further, it would solve a ton of problems that CSM have....just let the cabal roll on these new powers and call it a day. Cabal, CSMCAD, plus favorite formation or a Daemons CAD/allied detachment. Boom competitive army (if the psychic powers are good).
I know it will be drown in the middle of all of the Chaos talk but:
- Chapter Ancients: 3 Furioso Dreadnoughts
- Death Company Strike Force: 1 BA Chaplain with Jump Pack, 3 Death Company Squads, 1 Death Company Dreadnought (AKA a Furioso)
- Archangels Orbital Intervention Force: 2 BA Terminator Assault Squads, 1 Terminator Squad
Everything else is just a repack with a BA upgrade sprue. Only slightly different thing that I know of is that the Company Command includes both a Command Squad and a Commander (and the BA sprue of course).
Rydria wrote: It be nice if we got catapractii, it would give Tzeentch a viable army since Tzeentch catapractii would be awesome and you could do a full cataphractii terminator army with the formation.
Would be nice. Not a huge fan of the aesthetic but it would be great to see more termies on the board.
Interesting 3 source idea for a terminator deathstar I just thought of:
Take even just regular tzeentch terminators. Nice big squad. 4++ invuln.
Take a KDK character (I think you could even mix marks but let's say you can't so it's a tzeentch guy). Insert character into squad. Squad has a model with the daemon rule but not instability, so this is ok yes?
Take a Daemons detachment/formation and give someone the grim. Grim the kdk character's squad. It applies to the whole squad as long as one model in the squad has the daemon rule.
2++ terminators.....if only they weren't so slow, but hey they are not going to die.
Probably way too many tax units to make this viable for most armies.....but if you really want to do a Chaos version of superfriends....
Uriels_Flame wrote: Wouldn't Chaos only have access to Cataphractii technically?
Or will that derail things further...
All three common forms of Terminator armor existed during the heresy and Chaos fled into the Eye of Terror with fleets of factory ships and half the Mechanicum... while the Eye of Terror has expanded to encompass near by Forgeworlds in the past, and renegade chapters would bring whatever armor they had... so chaos marines would still have access to all of them.
Roknar wrote: A single Termicide unit has a whopping 3, maybe 4 bolters. Those aren't going to do anything at all. Especially if taking out a tank because then you're literally only firing 4/8 NON-twinlinked bolter shots.
Think idea is to deep strike and then pour either those combi-melta's or combi-plasma(to rear armour) rather than bolters for anti-tank duty
Pop next to wave serpent, bust the serpent with combi weapons, pepper surviving fire dragons with bolters.
Still not super hot but at least you are aiming right tool for the job at hand.
You only need two boxes, as the base unit is 3 terminators. And you have a Terminator body to convert into a lord or sorcerer with the extra bits the Terminator lord comes with.
Wulfson_40K wrote: I know it will be drown in the middle of all of the Chaos talk but:
- Chapter Ancients: 3 Furioso Dreadnoughts
- Death Company Strike Force: 1 BA Chaplain with Jump Pack, 3 Death Company Squads, 1 Death Company Dreadnought (AKA a Furioso)
- Archangels Orbital Intervention Force: 2 BA Terminator Assault Squads, 1 Terminator Squad
Everything else is just a repack with a BA upgrade sprue. Only slightly different thing that I know of is that the Company Command includes both a Command Squad and a Commander (and the BA sprue of course).
All of that makes good sense. Too bad that the Orbital force contains the plain Terminator squad. I hate decals and would love molded shoulder pauldrons for the plain Terminators. I am probably going to get two of the Assault Marine repacks. I really hope that Angel's Blade allows Assault Marine spam. The new kit is pretty nice, I just have had zero reason to get it until now.
I may be getting some Baal Predators if they fix them too.
Rydria wrote: It be nice if we got catapractii, it would give Tzeentch a viable army since Tzeentch catapractii would be awesome and you could do a full cataphractii terminator army with the formation.
Would be nice. Not a huge fan of the aesthetic but it would be great to see more termies on the board.
Interesting 3 source idea for a terminator deathstar I just thought of:
Take even just regular tzeentch terminators. Nice big squad. 4++ invuln.
Take a KDK character (I think you could even mix marks but let's say you can't so it's a tzeentch guy). Insert character into squad. Squad has a model with the daemon rule but not instability, so this is ok yes?
Take a Daemons detachment/formation and give someone the grim. Grim the kdk character's squad. It applies to the whole squad as long as one model in the squad has the daemon rule.
2++ terminators.....if only they weren't so slow, but hey they are not going to die.
Probably way too many tax units to make this viable for most armies.....but if you really want to do a Chaos version of superfriends....
Not remotely how it works. The unit that you're hitting with the grimoire has to have the daemon rule. Since the terminators aren't daemons they can't be hit with a grimoire.
If you really want to do this, you just take obliterators or warp talons. Give them mark of Tzeentch for the +1 invulnerable. Then hit them with the grimoire for the 2+. Then fish for the veil of time equivalent (if there is such a power in the new chaos psychic powers) for the re-roll for saves.
Rydria wrote: It be nice if we got catapractii, it would give Tzeentch a viable army since Tzeentch catapractii would be awesome and you could do a full cataphractii terminator army with the formation.
Would be nice. Not a huge fan of the aesthetic but it would be great to see more termies on the board.
Interesting 3 source idea for a terminator deathstar I just thought of:
Take even just regular tzeentch terminators. Nice big squad. 4++ invuln.
Take a KDK character (I think you could even mix marks but let's say you can't so it's a tzeentch guy). Insert character into squad. Squad has a model with the daemon rule but not instability, so this is ok yes?
Take a Daemons detachment/formation and give someone the grim. Grim the kdk character's squad. It applies to the whole squad as long as one model in the squad has the daemon rule.
2++ terminators.....if only they weren't so slow, but hey they are not going to die.
Probably way too many tax units to make this viable for most armies.....but if you really want to do a Chaos version of superfriends....
Not remotely how it works. The unit that you're hitting with the grimoire has to have the daemon rule. Since the terminators aren't daemons they can't be hit with a grimoire.
If you really want to do this, you just take obliterators or warp talons. Give them mark of Tzeentch for the +1 invulnerable. Then hit them with the grimoire for the 2+. Then fish for the veil of time equivalent (if there is such a power in the new chaos psychic powers) for the re-roll for saves.
Expensive but you can do it without the grimoire.
Say 5++ warp talons
4++ mark of tzeentch
3++ cursed earth
2++ sanctuary, but it makes them take dangerous terrain
Mark of Tzeentch caps its bonus at 3+ by the way, so this will never work with that mark and you might as well just take nurgle. Tzeentch may be a crafty god, but with his marines he plays pretty fair.
Or...
Lvl 3 Sorceror with Prophet of the Voices in a unit of 10 MoT Possessed with daemons to get Grimoire to (Potentially get)...
5++ (Daemon)
4++ (MoT)
3++ (Sanctuary/Cursed Earth)
2++ Grimoire
OR
Roll 3++ Invun on Mutations Table
2++ (Grimoire)
Or field the Formation that gets all the results on the Mutations Table for FREE 3++ invun then use Cursed Earth/Sancuary for 2++
This is CRIMSON SLAUGHTER
(Hold On, Heralds can take 30 points of wargear, cant i just take an Exalted reward, make it a 0 for a relic to get Grimoire?)
OR
Formation (Lvl 3 MoS Daemon Prince, Rolling on Daemonology (Malefic) and MoS Possessed with Icons of Excess)
So...
3++ (Mutations)
2++ (Cursed Earth)
Alternate 2++ (Grimoire of true names given Via Herald)
Kirasu wrote: It's funny that anyone thinks that triple Lord of Skulls is a "real" formation. Rules aside, the points alone makes it a no-go.
The formation is good if you use Kytan Daemon engines instead who are only 525 points, it actually fixes one of there main weaknesses since it is impossible to tarpit them when at start of the movement phase everything gets a auto str6 ap4 hit.
can we safely assume, pre orders of next week will center on gore chosen, same way lost patrol did back then; making the 24th the last week for sept, which may be a minor aos release plus the announcement of the new exclusive terminators?
Kirasu wrote: It's funny that anyone thinks that triple Lord of Skulls is a "real" formation. Rules aside, the points alone makes it a no-go.
The formation is good if you use Kytan Daemon engines instead who are only 525 points, it actually fixes one of there main weaknesses since it is impossible to tarpit them when at start of the movement phase everything gets a auto str6 ap4 hit.
If that actually works(I assume it does, I am not totally familiar with the Kytan's rules), that is pretty awesome. At 1575 pts, it is still a big investment though.
455_PWR wrote: Tyranid got a crap ton of monstrous beasties... tyranid armies are not fun to play against with nidzilla armies. Eldar got d spam, tau got a gazillion new toys, I think it's time the imperium and chaos gets more love (chaos needs it... they've been, well, lacking for some time now.
I get the sense that I am in the minority here, but I agree with this. I play BA and have been losing for years. I definitely welcome some updates and am excited about the Primarchs returning. Given the Forge World models I am not surprised at all to see this happen. It also just gives more options to players for either larger games or being able to play games with fewer models, the way Sigmar has taken the Fantasy game. So I say bring on the superheroes!
That feels like a no-win situation. If they copy and paste people complain that they copy and pasted. If they don't copy and paste, people complain that the powers aren't as good as the SM powers and say they should have just copy and pasted.
I suppose it depends what someone wanted in the first place. I wanted totally unique powers. Given there are what, 30 or so new powers, some overlap isn't a big deal. But if EVERY power is literally just new text, that's not at all what I wanted.
Doesn't matter what I want, in the end, but what we get and how we use it.
aracersss wrote: can we safely assume, pre orders of next week will center on gore chosen, same way lost patrol did back then; making the 24th the last week for sept, which may be a minor aos release plus the announcement of the new exclusive terminators?
Can you confirm that every psychic power is identical in this deck to loyalist ones?
Is there mention about blessings that gives AP3 and gets ot to unit?
troa wrote: That feels like a no-win situation. If they copy and paste people complain that they copy and pasted. If they don't copy and paste, people complain that the powers aren't as good as the SM powers and say they should have just copy and pasted.
about it.
Blood Angels!
