Cephalobeard wrote: I'm sure Robert Sillyman would be incredibly powerful, if he is a fieldable unit. If they're similar to their 30k Counterparts, they will cost hundreds of points and have tons of abilities.
Get it right.
It's Gill-Man and he will come to take your manhood with his Coat of Stars.
NivlacSupreme wrote: Im fine with both of those choices as long as i can play them with my BA. on a different note aren't HH armys legal in 40K? i know you can have volkite weapons so what about primarchs
Zywus wrote: If they start bringing back lost primarchs 40K has well and truly jumped the shark.
This. 1000x this.
but if they only brought back living primarchs then it would be kind of unfair on BA players. DA has a living primarch, regular chapters do and the space wolves guy has actually been seen.
Who said life is fair? Where is that written?
This isnt life. This is a wargame. game is right in the name
You do realize 40k is a lot like Fox News and has never been about being "fair and balanced".
Your living in a day dream expecting every primarch to return.
I said at the time, when the pre-heresy Kharn came out, he looked like a dog taking a leak against a lamp post.
and now the 40k Kharn looks like he's tripping over a dog and is about to fall flat on his face!
Maybe I'm getting older, but the modern action pose on the sculpts, doesn't seem to be as good as action poses on older sculpts. The detail is good, but the dynamism seems to be 'forced,' for want of a better word.
gungo wrote: You do realize 40k is a lot like Fox News and has never been about being "fair and balanced".
Your living in a day dream expecting every primarch to return.
Why you think GW would not release all primarchesh? Free money. Don't bother saying anything about fluff since that's never been stopping GW from inventing new models.
Dorn would be a good choice for a "the imperium is dying but by damn we will have one last fight" character. Dressed in the black of mourning, leading the black Templars in one last crusade. I suspect the rest of the imperium would rally round him also.
Promethius wrote: Dorn would be a good choice for a "the imperium is dying but by damn we will have one last fight" character. Dressed in the black of mourning, leading the black Templars in one last crusade. I suspect the rest of the imperium would rally round him also.
This MUST be the only choice. No other chapter deserves the right to lead the Imperium's bat crazy, blood frothing madness attempt at roaring one last act of defiance into every face of Xenos and Heretic filth. Even if humanity ceases to exist, the Templars will still manage to find a way to crusade against whatever race survives.
I would be least unhappy if it was Vulkan. I would be most unhappy if it was Guilliman.
You know it won't be Vulkan though because they already have a 40k model named Vulkan and that might confuse Little Timmy's mother when he asks for Vulkan for Christmas (she might buy the less expensive one).
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: I would be least unhappy if it was Vulkan. I would be most unhappy if it was Guilliman.
You know it won't be Vulkan though because they already have a 40k model named Vulkan and that might confuse Little Timmy's mother when he asks for Vulkan for Christmas (she might buy the less expensive one).
But if Vulkan returns, that should mean that all of the items from his scavenger hunt have been found, and there is no longer any need for He'stan to carry the name "Vulkan".
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: I would be least unhappy if it was Vulkan. I would be most unhappy if it was Guilliman.
You know it won't be Vulkan though because they already have a 40k model named Vulkan and that might confuse Little Timmy's mother when he asks for Vulkan for Christmas (she might buy the less expensive one).
But if Vulkan returns, that should mean that all of the items from his scavenger hunt have been found, and there is no longer any need for He'stan to carry the name "Vulkan".
Yay! Maybe the Dark Eldar can kill whatsisface, Chapter Master Tushy'buns, and He'stan can become the new Chapter Master!
gungo wrote: You do realize 40k is a lot like Fox News and has never been about being "fair and balanced".
Your living in a day dream expecting every primarch to return.
Why you think GW would not release all primarchesh? Free money. Don't bother saying anything about fluff since that's never been stopping GW from inventing new models.
Why? Because they don't have too and still get free monies!!! A single dead character model isn't really free monies either especially since forgeworld will have a likely better resin sculpt for sale.
And as much as you want to neglect 40k fluff it's been fairly consistent for the almost 30+ years of stagnation it's been sitting within.
Speaking as a fan of the fluff, I think it's great they're advancing the plot. I hear you on arguments that involving the Primarchs would mean sort of a "monster of the week" development, but I feel like that's already where the fluff is. Space Marines can only fight the nefarious Eldar without real plot development for so long.
I think bringing in a new phase in the plot where Primarchs are active again and things are crumbling brings so much more to the table, both in terms of fluff and gaming. I know we're supposed to "play it out" without GW's help, but at the end of the day the eternal teasing of what "may" happen in the fluff is maddening.
TL;DR IF they pull it off right they could have some really interesting developments both for the fluff and for gaming.
Cephalobeard wrote: I'm sure Robert Sillyman would be incredibly powerful, if he is a fieldable unit. If they're similar to their 30k Counterparts, they will cost hundreds of points and have tons of abilities.
Get it right.
It's Gill-Man and he will come to take your manhood with his Coat of Stars.
Would be most happy to have Dorn return. As previously suggested, leading Templars. Hell yes. I'd rebuy a Templar army for that.
Russ returning? I might find an old mangy dog to piddle on. Fething hate that worthless mutt of a primary. Being an A-hole to his fellow primarchs, encouraging his men to be raging hypocrites (Psyker BS), and teaching his men to be disrespectful of everyone...yeah. He can stay gone. He has no value. I'd actually like to see the entire SW chapter wiped. They can keep the current codex and just switch everything over to a Khorne counterpart (but performing exterminatus on the Psyker entry).
Well, I wouldn't seriously piddle on a dog. But the rest of it was pretty legit, yeah. Including likely buying a full new Templar army if Dorn returns (and rules to lead them).
Nah Man Pichu wrote: Speaking as a fan of the fluff, I think it's great they're advancing the plot. I hear you on arguments that involving the Primarchs would mean sort of a "monster of the week" development, but I feel like that's already where the fluff is. Space Marines can only fight the nefarious Eldar without real plot development for so long.
I think bringing in a new phase in the plot where Primarchs are active again and things are crumbling brings so much more to the table, both in terms of fluff and gaming. I know we're supposed to "play it out" without GW's help, but at the end of the day the eternal teasing of what "may" happen in the fluff is maddening.
TL;DR IF they pull it off right they could have some really interesting developments both for the fluff and for gaming.
On the contrary I don't see any interesting developments in our future. Advancing the plot, bringing back the primarchs and taking the setting into even more of a morning-cartoon style show where everything is about a handful of superhumans battling "monster of the week" would completely ruin 40K for me. Making it an advancing plot centered on the returning primarcs make the world feel small and bereft of any stake.
And that'seven if they pull it off right. But we know they wont.
It would be sad to see the last good bastion of 40K (the fluff) ruined but, at least we have 30K, so long as the FW section can keep relatively untainted by "GW proper", who seems to turn everything they touch into **** lately
Zywus, are you for real? You seem completely unaware that the fluff has never been 'good.'
Interesting, certainly. Amusing, definetly.
But actualy good? No mate, you making a mountain out of a mole hill.
It's been 'monster of the week' for at least 4 editions. If you don't like that, then thats alright - just write your own fluff.
That is the point of 40k's open nature, is it not?
If that doesn't suit you there's always the door.
Not trying to be rude, just trying to point out how silly that assumption is.
Resurrecting the primarchs only servers to further the trend of making the common soldier for each faction irrelevant.
Guardsmen are worthless and cannot preform any acts of heroism or defiance in the current game mechanics, instead they exist as a laughably inept group of faceless goons that exist only to die.
Tactical marines are experiencing the same fate that their guardsmen brothers are as well. Bolters are just useless when you can have grav weapons, imperial knights and giant titans blowing things up.
Why ever have a rifleman preform any role competently? I mean without them what would all of the big gak have to kill to make them look cool?
GW might as well have giant named characters and robots kill everything and remove any notion of the common soldier being useful.
Nah Man Pichu wrote: Speaking as a fan of the fluff, I think it's great they're advancing the plot. I hear you on arguments that involving the Primarchs would mean sort of a "monster of the week" development, but I feel like that's already where the fluff is. Space Marines can only fight the nefarious Eldar without real plot development for so long.
I think bringing in a new phase in the plot where Primarchs are active again and things are crumbling brings so much more to the table, both in terms of fluff and gaming. I know we're supposed to "play it out" without GW's help, but at the end of the day the eternal teasing of what "may" happen in the fluff is maddening.
TL;DR IF they pull it off right they could have some really interesting developments both for the fluff and for gaming.
On the contrary I don't see any interesting developments in our future. Advancing the plot, bringing back the primarchs and taking the setting into even more of a morning-cartoon style show where everything is about a handful of superhumans battling "monster of the week" would completely ruin 40K for me. Making it an advancing plot centered on the returning primarcs make the world feel small and bereft of any stake.
And that'seven if they pull it off right. But we know they wont.
It would be sad to see the last good bastion of 40K (the fluff) ruined but, at least we have 30K, so long as the FW section can keep relatively untainted by "GW proper", who seems to turn everything they touch into **** lately
Lol you think 40k fluff is only now turning into a Saturday morning cartoon!!!
Hint: the main reason people like 40k is it's always been a Saturday morning cartoon. Literally everything about it is overblown and completely unbelievable and exaggerated. This is what makes 40k great.
So yes I want to see a giant half wolf genetically altered regenerating super human soldier with a two handed axe leading genetetically grown super soldiers Riding giant wolves with a hammer and shield charging at unkillable Egyptian themed robots. Because you know it's a freakin sat morning cartoon game.
Sledgehammer wrote: Resurrecting the primarchs only servers to further the trend of making the common soldier for each faction irrelevant.
Guardsmen are worthless and cannot preform any acts of heroism or defiance in the current game mechanics, instead they exist as a laughably inept group of faceless goons that exist only to die.
Tactical marines are experiencing the same fate that their guardsmen brothers are as well. Bolters are just useless when you can have grav weapons, imperial knights and giant titans blowing things up.
Why ever have a rifleman preform any role competently? I mean without them what would all of the big gak have to kill to make them look cool?
GW might as well have giant named characters and robots kill everything and remove any notion of the common soldier being useful.
I understand where you're coming from; the basic trooper has been on the backfoot for quite some time now, regardless of army. That being said, you're not gonna see these guys in every game, and if Calgar and Abaddon are Lords of War, you can bet primarchs will be too.
gungo wrote: Why? Because they don't have too and still get free monies!!! A single dead character model isn't really free monies either especially since forgeworld will have a likely better resin sculpt for sale.
And as much as you want to neglect 40k fluff it's been fairly consistent for the almost 30+ years of stagnation it's been sitting within.
They get even MORE money. It's not like plastic BA primarch would eat sales of plastic Russ...And what you mean by dead anyway? Obviously it would be usable model of primarch come back to life.
And who says FW is going to put in 40kBA primarch in resin? If not then having 30k BA primarch and 40kBA primarch aren't mutually exclusive.
And in case you haven't noticed GW has been rewriting and changing 40k fluff all the time and it's been only increasing...GW isn't too bothered by about the idea and IT'S ALREADY CHANGING! Who says GW won't change it further? 2 years ago idea of primarches coming back in any form was impossible to contemplate. Now it's confirmed. CHANGE! GW isn't bound by history which they have already demonstrated for decades.
I do wonder whether it will be Dorn, seeing as his rules went up in the HH books a long time ago, but there's been no sign of a model from FW. Trust me, go listen to the IF fans in the FW thread and Dorn is very conspicuous by his absence!
Sledgehammer wrote: Guardsmen are worthless and cannot preform any acts of heroism or defiance in the current game mechanics, instead they exist as a laughably inept group of faceless goons that exist only to die.
I remember I used to take big 30-man platoons of Guardsmen quite a bit, sit them on objectives and not even bothering to roll for orders or shoot with them because what was the point? They couldn't meaningfully hurt the monstrous creature spam, Wraithlords and jetbikes the metagame disintegrated into, save for the odd suicidal plasma gunner or heavy weapons team. Spending 80% of the painting and modeling for an army on the least useful units in it is a pastime I simply cannot recommend.
Jadenim wrote: I do wonder whether it will be Dorn, seeing as his rules went up in the HH books a long time ago, but there's been no sign of a model from FW. Trust me, go listen to the IF fans in the FW thread and Dorn is very conspicuous by his absence!
Doubtful. I would expect them to be different looking in 30k and 40k(for starters Dorn lost a hand in between...). FW will release resin Dorn for 30k, GW eventually plastic Dorn for 40k. Question is just when.
Jadenim wrote: I do wonder whether it will be Dorn, seeing as his rules went up in the HH books a long time ago, but there's been no sign of a model from FW. Trust me, go listen to the IF fans in the FW thread and Dorn is very conspicuous by his absence!
Doubtful. I would expect them to be different looking in 30k and 40k(for starters Dorn lost a hand in between...). FW will release resin Dorn for 30k, GW eventually plastic Dorn for 40k. Question is just when.
And the answer (for the FW side) is that they'll release 30k Dorn when the story gets back to a place where he's involved, same with Alpharius. Next is Russ and then Magnus.
Jadenim wrote: I do wonder whether it will be Dorn, seeing as his rules went up in the HH books a long time ago, but there's been no sign of a model from FW. Trust me, go listen to the IF fans in the FW thread and Dorn is very conspicuous by his absence!
Doubtful. I would expect them to be different looking in 30k and 40k(for starters Dorn lost a hand in between...). FW will release resin Dorn for 30k, GW eventually plastic Dorn for 40k. Question is just when.
And the answer (for the FW side) is that they'll release 30k Dorn when the story gets back to a place where he's involved, same with Alpharius. Next is Russ and then Magnus.
But is the model coming when story moves or is the story moving where the models are
Neronoxx wrote:Zywus, are you for real? You seem completely unaware that the fluff has never been 'good.'
Interesting, certainly. Amusing, definetly.
But actualy good? No mate, you making a mountain out of a mole hill.
It's been 'monster of the week' for at least 4 editions. If you don't like that, then thats alright - just write your own fluff.
That is the point of 40k's open nature, is it not?
If that doesn't suit you there's always the door.
Not trying to be rude, just trying to point out how silly that assumption is.
bs.
The fluff on a large scale has been mostly unchanged since 2nd edition and If something is interesting and amusing, is it such a stretch to call it "good"? I agree that what's been produced lately has been mostly sub-par but necron-blood angels bromance and Draigo sillyness generally don't affect the underlying themes of the settinghey can be dismssed as isolated occurences with a bit of mental gymnastics. Bringing back primarcs would affect the setting far more deeply.
And what's with that passive aggresive crap? Of course I can give up on 40K. And I probably will. The game is already borderline unplayable and if the fluff is to advance in this way, the setting will become completely uninteresting too. What' do you want to achive by saying that other than specifically being rude?
Nah Man Pichu wrote: Speaking as a fan of the fluff, I think it's great they're advancing the plot. I hear you on arguments that involving the Primarchs would mean sort of a "monster of the week" development, but I feel like that's already where the fluff is. Space Marines can only fight the nefarious Eldar without real plot development for so long.
I think bringing in a new phase in the plot where Primarchs are active again and things are crumbling brings so much more to the table, both in terms of fluff and gaming. I know we're supposed to "play it out" without GW's help, but at the end of the day the eternal teasing of what "may" happen in the fluff is maddening.
TL;DR IF they pull it off right they could have some really interesting developments both for the fluff and for gaming.
On the contrary I don't see any interesting developments in our future. Advancing the plot, bringing back the primarchs and taking the setting into even more of a morning-cartoon style show where everything is about a handful of superhumans battling "monster of the week" would completely ruin 40K for me. Making it an advancing plot centered on the returning primarcs make the world feel small and bereft of any stake.
And that'seven if they pull it off right. But we know they wont.
It would be sad to see the last good bastion of 40K (the fluff) ruined but, at least we have 30K, so long as the FW section can keep relatively untainted by "GW proper", who seems to turn everything they touch into **** lately
Lol you think 40k fluff is only now turning into a Saturday morning cartoon!!!
Hint: the main reason people like 40k is it's always been a Saturday morning cartoon. Literally everything about it is overblown and completely unbelievable and exaggerated. This is what makes 40k great.
So yes I want to see a giant half wolf genetically altered regenerating super human soldier with a two handed axe leading genetetically grown super soldiers Riding giant wolves with a hammer and shield charging at unkillable Egyptian themed robots. Because you know it's a freakin sat morning cartoon game.
It's not why I or many (perhaps most) like 40k. And no, it has not always been a Saturday morning cartoon. At least not to the extent it'll be with a moving narrative focused on a few superheroes battling a few supervillains as opposed to the grimdark, vast and stagnant setting that drew me in many years ago.
Great that you want to have wolf lords of the wolf wolf riding wolves armed with wolf blade of the wolf wolf. It's not what I'm after i 40K and it's not what makes (made) 40K great to me.
Sledgehammer wrote:Resurrecting the primarchs only servers to further the trend of making the common soldier for each faction irrelevant.
Guardsmen are worthless and cannot preform any acts of heroism or defiance in the current game mechanics, instead they exist as a laughably inept group of faceless goons that exist only to die.
Tactical marines are experiencing the same fate that their guardsmen brothers are as well. Bolters are just useless when you can have grav weapons, imperial knights and giant titans blowing things up.
Why ever have a rifleman preform any role competently? I mean without them what would all of the big gak have to kill to make them look cool?
GW might as well have giant named characters and robots kill everything and remove any notion of the common soldier being useful.
Agreed. It's been going on for years but bringing back primarcs is a giant leap towards this. Not much feeling of a vast galaxy if the narrative is a handful of superheroes running around all over the place battling each others, with nothing else having consequence. Like some pro-wrestling promotion set in the 40K universe.
Thebiggesthat wrote: This isn't the place for fluff arguments or 40k timeline chat.
Some of us want to know about the releases, and all this cyclic argument is drowning it out
The fact that some folk evidently don't see that the two things are inextricably linked is part of the problem, frankly.
It's also why the discussion is pointless, Zywus. You're not going to get anywhere around these parts trying to discuss the background material, because some folk just don't care either way, and plenty more are still stuck in that edgelordy mindset where they have to trash 40K fluff so everyone grasps that hey, they might be playing with toy soldiers, but they're not total nerds or anything, yeah?
What if Dorn did die, but has been resurrected, sigmarine style, with his own legion of long-dead space marine heroes, as the Emperor's literal angels, for the final battle against chaos.
Next release after the 40k Killteam Skirmish boxed game (preorder Aug 27) will be a Chaos Space Marine campaign book (with new formations), new CSM psychic powers and the Kharn plastic model. Based on rumors from the reliable Atia
Kharn's preorder is September 3. The other items are rumored to be available then as well. So their preorder should be either 3rd or 10th of September.
Well there is also the lost/erased Primarch that could pop up again in a "End times" scenario. Also regarding Imperial not having primarch level heroes. I think Macharius is one of if not the greatest normal human in imperium history?
Nah Man Pichu wrote: Speaking as a fan of the fluff, I think it's great they're advancing the plot. I hear you on arguments that involving the Primarchs would mean sort of a "monster of the week" development, but I feel like that's already where the fluff is. Space Marines can only fight the nefarious Eldar without real plot development for so long.
I think bringing in a new phase in the plot where Primarchs are active again and things are crumbling brings so much more to the table, both in terms of fluff and gaming. I know we're supposed to "play it out" without GW's help, but at the end of the day the eternal teasing of what "may" happen in the fluff is maddening.
TL;DR IF they pull it off right they could have some really interesting developments both for the fluff and for gaming.
On the contrary I don't see any interesting developments in our future. Advancing the plot, bringing back the primarchs and taking the setting into even more of a morning-cartoon style show where everything is about a handful of superhumans battling "monster of the week" would completely ruin 40K for me. Making it an advancing plot centered on the returning primarcs make the world feel small and bereft of any stake.
And that'seven if they pull it off right. But we know they wont.
It would be sad to see the last good bastion of 40K (the fluff) ruined but, at least we have 30K, so long as the FW section can keep relatively untainted by "GW proper", who seems to turn everything they touch into **** lately
Lol you think 40k fluff is only now turning into a Saturday morning cartoon!!!
Hint: the main reason people like 40k is it's always been a Saturday morning cartoon. Literally everything about it is overblown and completely unbelievable and exaggerated. This is what makes 40k great.
So yes I want to see a giant half wolf genetically altered regenerating super human soldier with a two handed axe leading genetetically grown super soldiers Riding giant wolves with a hammer and shield charging at unkillable Egyptian themed robots. Because you know it's a freakin sat morning cartoon game.
It's not why I or many (perhaps most) like 40k. And no, it has not always been a Saturday morning cartoon. At least not to the extent it'll be with a moving narrative focused on a few superheroes battling a few supervillains as opposed to the grimdark, vast and stagnant setting that drew me in many years ago.
Great that you want to have wolf lords of the wolf wolf riding wolves armed with wolf blade of the wolf wolf. It's not what I'm after i 40K and it's not what makes (made) 40K great to me.
Don't lie to urself 40k was always a day morning cartoon.
Seriously giant Jesus Angel primarchs
Space trooper style alien bugs
Egyptian robots
Space dwarfs
Zoats
Space vampires
space werewolves
Overblown guns the size of cars
Giant manga robots
This is like an 8 year old boys wet dream. This stuff is really really bad cartoon fiction and always has been.
Stop kidding yourself like this is a deeply involved historically fan fiction it's never been anywhere but cartoon porn for grown men.
Nah Man Pichu wrote: Speaking as a fan of the fluff, I think it's great they're advancing the plot. I hear you on arguments that involving the Primarchs would mean sort of a "monster of the week" development, but I feel like that's already where the fluff is. Space Marines can only fight the nefarious Eldar without real plot development for so long.
I think bringing in a new phase in the plot where Primarchs are active again and things are crumbling brings so much more to the table, both in terms of fluff and gaming. I know we're supposed to "play it out" without GW's help, but at the end of the day the eternal teasing of what "may" happen in the fluff is maddening.
TL;DR IF they pull it off right they could have some really interesting developments both for the fluff and for gaming.
On the contrary I don't see any interesting developments in our future. Advancing the plot, bringing back the primarchs and taking the setting into even more of a morning-cartoon style show where everything is about a handful of superhumans battling "monster of the week" would completely ruin 40K for me. Making it an advancing plot centered on the returning primarcs make the world feel small and bereft of any stake.
And that'seven if they pull it off right. But we know they wont.
It would be sad to see the last good bastion of 40K (the fluff) ruined but, at least we have 30K, so long as the FW section can keep relatively untainted by "GW proper", who seems to turn everything they touch into **** lately
Lol you think 40k fluff is only now turning into a Saturday morning cartoon!!!
Hint: the main reason people like 40k is it's always been a Saturday morning cartoon. Literally everything about it is overblown and completely unbelievable and exaggerated. This is what makes 40k great.
So yes I want to see a giant half wolf genetically altered regenerating super human soldier with a two handed axe leading genetetically grown super soldiers Riding giant wolves with a hammer and shield charging at unkillable Egyptian themed robots. Because you know it's a freakin sat morning cartoon game.
It's not why I or many (perhaps most) like 40k. And no, it has not always been a Saturday morning cartoon. At least not to the extent it'll be with a moving narrative focused on a few superheroes battling a few supervillains as opposed to the grimdark, vast and stagnant setting that drew me in many years ago.
Great that you want to have wolf lords of the wolf wolf riding wolves armed with wolf blade of the wolf wolf. It's not what I'm after i 40K and it's not what makes (made) 40K great to me.
Don't lie to urself 40k was always a day morning cartoon.
Seriously giant Jesus Angel primarchs
Space trooper style alien bugs
Egyptian robots
Space dwarfs
Zoats
Space vampires
space werewolves
Overblown guns the size of cars
Giant manga robots
This is like an 8 year old boys wet dream. This stuff is really really bad cartoon fiction and always has been.
Stop kidding yourself like this is a deeply involved historically fan fiction it's never been anywhere but cartoon porn for grown men.
There were no primarchs in the current setting. They used to be figures of legend from the distant past.
The Egyptian robots used to be mindless servants of Lovecraftian elder gods. Not robot Egyptians.
The space vampires used to be a dying chapter afflicted with a terrible curse that would inevitably destroy them. Now Your Army Sucks *guitar solo*.
Space werewolves used to be space vikings. Now wolfy wolf wolf wolf aroooo!
Also Kaldor fething Draigo.
It's been getting harder and harder to hand wave away the damage being done in recent years to a setting I used to like. gak's been circling the drain for some time now, it's true. That flushing noise you hear is Teh Space Emporer awakening from his Golden Throne.
Warhams-77 wrote: Next release after the 40k Killteam Skirmish boxed game (preorder Aug 27) will be a Chaos Space Marine campaign book (with new formations), new CSM psychic powers and the Kharn plastic model. Based on rumors from the reliable Atia
I will laugh so hard when the all the formations do is grant Hatred vs various FOC slots.
Nvs wrote: So is it an all new campaign book? Or is it the second half of the fenris book which will be more CSM focused?
Unknown, Nvs, but everything that was leaked about it sounded like it will not be the continuation of Warzone Fenris. Especially because of Sad Panda's remark that 40k Thousand Sons will be later than sooner and 40k Magnus will be released after the 30k Ahriman who is part of the next HH board game. This campaign book will be about a new Warzone I guess. Anyone knows what happened at the end of Death Masque? Any hints?
Nvs wrote: So is it an all new campaign book? Or is it the second half of the fenris book which will be more CSM focused?
Unknown, Nvs, but everything that was leaked about it sounded like it will not be the continuation of Warzone Fenris. Especially because of Sad Panda's remark that 40k Thousand Sons will be later than sooner and 40k Magnus will be released after the 30k Ahriman who is part of the next HH board game. This campaign book will be about a new Warzone I guess. Anyone knows what happened at the end of Death Masque? Any hints?
Death Masque ending
Spoiler:
Kill Team Artemis kills all the Harlequins, Eldrads plan is ruined, the Eldar God is not birthed, but a small shard of it survives and is thrown off into who-knows-where
Khârn wants to be able to shake your hand with his dominant hand and a pistol is easier to holster than his axe. What a great guy, that Khârn, always thinking of others first.
People often remark "yeah, he might be psychotic, and guilty of genocide without number, but he will always look you in the eye and shake your hand before he fillets you and eats your spleen."
casvalremdeikun wrote: Khârn wants to be able to shake your hand with his dominant hand and a pistol is easier to holster than his axe. What a great guy, that Khârn, always thinking of others first.
Well, Khorne does promote good manners . Plus Khorne cares not from which hand the axe holds.
timd wrote: Yeah, I'm late to the party, but perhaps his dominant hand changed because he became more sinister?
Nicely done.
I'd say that suggesting Kharn has a dominant hand implies that one hand is worse at killing. Which is impossible. Every part of Kharn down to his bunny ears is perfectly killy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrookM wrote: We really need an Argel Tal mini, so we can have those besties on the tabletop together..!
Almost certainly going to happen whenever FW gets around to the book covering the Shadow Crusade. I think by the old plan we would have it by now, but it seems like it's been pushed back quite a bit.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And the Squats come back, only they put warpgold runes into their skin, and the Orks have an identity crisis, grow bigger and change their name.
Moopy wrote: So, we have a plastic Ahriman standing on a Mk III marine.
Can anyone point toward rumors or confirmations of a plastic Mk III boxed set akin to BaC?
Too many pages/threads to rummage through at this point.
It seems likely, given he's part of a box and it would be weird to have something under his feet that is aesthetically divergent from everything else.
timd wrote: Yeah, I'm late to the party, but perhaps his dominant hand changed because he became more sinister?
Nicely done.
I'd say that suggesting Kharn has a dominant hand implies that one hand is worse at killing. Which is impossible. Every part of Kharn down to his bunny ears is perfectly killy.
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BrookM wrote: We really need an Argel Tal mini, so we can have those besties on the tabletop together..!
Almost certainly going to happen whenever FW gets around to the book covering the Shadow Crusade. I think by the old plan we would have it by now, but it seems like it's been pushed back quite a bit.
Yeah the Shadow Crusade book was meant to be book 6 after Calth, back when Tempest was just coming out. Daemon Angron will also be in that book.
hopefully "new rules" means replacements like they did with... the Iron Priest or something for Wolves I think (had one version in the codex, and then an updated one in Wulfen I think). I'll be happy with a true Decurion type of thing that fixes some of the issues.
So looks like a cross between a warzone book and a Chaos version of the AoD supplement. With the black crusade tag on the side it seems GW really are revisiting and possibly expanding on the events of the old world wide campaign. With that in mind could the weapon Abbadon is after be one of the Blackstone fortresses?
Chaos is a large and diverse faction that needs a lot of work both in the rules and models department. Hopefully this is the start of more things to come and not just a one off.
Warhammer Facebook wrote:We saw the new Khârn model earlier this week, courtesy of Warhammer TV.
But a champion with as legendary a reputation as The Betrayer needs an equally legendary war.
And here’s what’s on the way — Traitor’s Hate, a campaign book that chronicles the opening battle of the 13th Black Crusade.
For Warhammer 40,000 fans, this is a huge event in the timeline of the galaxy, but for Chaos Space Marine fans, this is even more: the start of a vengeance 10,000 years in the making.
Find out more about this new book next weekend.
games-workshop.com/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=traitorshatecover
The Blood Angels will be defeated (but played up as a heroic sacrifice), but it will turn out to be a Pyrrhic Victory for Chaos as either the Blood Angels sabotage and destroy the weapon and/or Kharn does it himself.
Well, saw the Traitor's Hate stuff and talked about it to the redshirt. Supposedly it has datasheets for all renegade knight patterns seperatly instead of the single one from the box, i.e. Warden, Crusader and so on. Dedications are in.
Kharn will get a new datasheet, but will mostly stay the same except for one change. Maybe the rumored Eternal Warrior, the guy refused to clarify that. He can be taken in CSM and KDK.
Black Legion meta formation is the usual decurion stuff. Several formations combine daemons and CSM. It's all about BL and CS, so no stuff for other legions.
The psychic disciplines are not god-specific and availiable to all psykers.
Names of the new heretic Psychic Disciplines.
Ectomancy (mmm, Ecto Cooler)
Geomortis
Sinisturm
Heretech
Ashiraya wrote: Wow, that is one hell of an unimpressive psychic power.
it's a domino effect without the condition of an unsaved wound to trigger the extra effect ... D6 hits that trigger another set of D6 hits on every other unit within 6"
Looks like a full on warzone/campaign book then?
Chaos has a lot of fincast/metal models as well as several that require the basic CSM kit. Hopefully GW are using the black crusade and Fenris releases to update models and units on the edges(eg Rubrics and fingers crossed Bezerkers). So when they do release a new Chaos codex in the (hopefully near)future there's not such a crapton of models/rules they have to redo at the same time.
I sure hope the rules are at least okay-ish this time. The combing daemons and marines at least has me curious. I don't expect them to be game changing or even good, given the last time Chaos got formations. The Daemons ones were very limiting and only moderately useful. While the CSM ones were simply awful. Hopefully, they won't be Black Legion or Crimson Slaughter specific this time. There are other CSM forces in need of love too.
I pickup Kharn cause I like the mini, but I wait on the Campaign book till we here the contents.
Chaos Legionnaire wrote: Well, it's about time the Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter, and Khorne finally got a supplement....
Oh well. All part of the plan I suppose.
Laughs. Yeah, the two everyone's least favourite Chaos factions.
I'm guessing this first supplement is BL and CS, and the second one is CS with BL. The third one is Khorne, which is were Knights get a dinobot update called "Knight-mare".
Well, saw the Traitor's Hate stuff and talked about it to the redshirt. Supposedly it has datasheets for all renegade knight patterns seperatly instead of the single one from the box, i.e. Warden, Crusader and so on. Dedications are in.
Wonder if that means they're completely trashing the paired guns fun you could have with the Renegade datasheet.
Can't pierce power armour? Check.
Costs more than anything comparable from the main rulebook or whatever SM can take? Check.
Involves lots of random rolling? Check.
Can't pierce power armour? Check.
Costs more than anything comparable from the main rulebook or whatever SM can take? Check.
Involves lots of random rolling? Check.
Sounds like Chaos.
Most witchfire powers are garbage, this isn't news. But hey, if it fits your narrative...
Can't pierce power armour? Check.
Costs more than anything comparable from the main rulebook or whatever SM can take? Check.
Involves lots of random rolling? Check.
Sounds like Chaos.
Most witchfire powers are garbage, this isn't news. But hey, if it fits your narrative...
Can't pierce power armour? Check.
Costs more than anything comparable from the main rulebook or whatever SM can take? Check.
Involves lots of random rolling? Check.
Sounds like Chaos.
Most witchfire powers are garbage, this isn't news. But hey, if it fits your narrative...
Most garbage witchfires don't cost 2 Warp Charge.
Probably because of the potential jumping. Still only worth 1 but I can understand the asinine reasoning their designers might use.
Can't pierce power armour? Check.
Costs more than anything comparable from the main rulebook or whatever SM can take? Check.
Involves lots of random rolling? Check.
Sounds like Chaos.
Most witchfire powers are garbage, this isn't news. But hey, if it fits your narrative...
Most garbage witchfires don't cost 2 Warp Charge.
Probably because of the potential jumping. Still only worth 1 but I can understand the asinine reasoning their designers might use.
This power would be perfect for a Chaos spoiler army though. Like build an army around maximizing random wound allocation. Run as many MSU cultist units as possible and run them all through difficult terrain every turn too. Then we can all languish in D6 hell together.
Can't pierce power armour? Check.
Costs more than anything comparable from the main rulebook or whatever SM can take? Check.
Involves lots of random rolling? Check.
Sounds like Chaos.
Ironic, considering this is the exact power (and warp charge cost) that was released for space marines in angels of death; fumination, lightning arc. .
I am going to laugh if these new disciplines are literally the Space Marine ones from Angels of Death with new names.
I'll cry if it's that with all the good powers replaced with terrible ones to make 4 terrible disciplines.
EDIT: Looking back at the rumoured names that might actually be the case, with the exception of the rumoured Heretek power. So maybe a few powers from each discipline will be copy-pastes with a few new powers to add some flavour.
Can't pierce power armour? Check.
Costs more than anything comparable from the main rulebook or whatever SM can take? Check.
Involves lots of random rolling? Check.
Sounds like Chaos.
Ironic, considering this is the exact power (and warp charge cost) that was released for space marines in angels of death; fumination, lightning arc. .
I stand corrected. Lightning Arc is identical all the way down to the Warp Charge cost. And is also awful.
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Matt.Kingsley wrote: I'll cry if it's that with all the good powers replaced with terrible ones to make 4 terrible disciplines.
But GW would never do such a thing. Not to Chaos, right? Right...?
Ive also heard there be stuff for cult troops in there. Would be nice. This has the potential to be a real bait and switch if the exact same detachments and whatnot from the BL and CS supplements are in this, and nothing else. I'm hoping for at least one new detachment, or at least additional formations for those two detachments that have cult troops.
It does look like a big kit, but I'm not sure if a tenner less than a Aquila strongpoint or Fortress of redemption is worth it. Still at least its not a limited release this time round. And perhaps this means that the big plasma cannon emplacement might come back in plastic as well?
A plastic Void Generator? Nice. I was one of the folks who tried ordering it online 3 hours after its release to find out it was sold out. I couldn't find one reasonably priced on any secondary markets.
Really? Never seen one in the flesh. Just heard that it was a pain to assemble and fit properly and assumed it was resin Hopefully they have done a better job with the generator.
Has anyone seen the price for khárn? On the pic you cant make it out. Looks £15? If so that's excellent. Its likely not but hey after deathwatch characters who knows
Motograter wrote: Has anyone seen the price for khárn? On the pic you cant make it out. Looks £15? If so that's excellent. Its likely not but hey after deathwatch characters who knows
Trying to make out other values and comparing those price marks looks to be bit more than that though could be incorrect. Photo very blurry so I could be misreading big time.
Motograter wrote: Has anyone seen the price for khárn? On the pic you cant make it out. Looks £15? If so that's excellent. Its likely not but hey after deathwatch characters who knows
Motograter wrote: Has anyone seen the price for khárn? On the pic you cant make it out. Looks £15? If so that's excellent. Its likely not but hey after deathwatch characters who knows
The price I can make out is 43 Canadian dollars. That is the same price as the tech priest dominus unfortunately.
Red_Ink_Cat wrote: ...but ... void shield generator ... in plastic? ...for only $100??
Well, I'm never buying a "limitted release" or collector's model produced by GW ever again
To be fair it's not that much cheaper than the resin version.
Resin (or really wasn't it polystone?) will still probably look better.
The void shield generator in resin had about two years of being much better rulewise than the plastic version will get after the faq.
So given that the psychic disciplines in Traitor's Hate are possibly a (possibly worse) rehash of the AoD psychic disciplines, and given that AoD did not contain any new formations - just compiled existing ones and organized them into a bunch of new super detachments - what are the chances that the formations are exactly the same as the Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter supplements organized into a new super detachment?
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: So given that the psychic disciplines in Traitor's Hate are possibly a (possibly worse) rehash of the AoD psychic disciplines, and given that AoD did not contain any new formations - just compiled existing ones and organized them into a bunch of new super detachments - what are the chances that the formations are exactly the same as the Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter supplements organized into a new super detachment?
I would bet a whole "Start Collecting" box that they aren't.
There may be some rehashed formations (probably the helbrute ones and the Kharn one) but I suspect most of the formations (and the inevitable decurion style superformation) in here will be open to all flavours of chaos marine.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: So given that the psychic disciplines in Traitor's Hate are possibly a (possibly worse) rehash of the AoD psychic disciplines, and given that AoD did not contain any new formations - just compiled existing ones and organized them into a bunch of new super detachments - what are the chances that the formations are exactly the same as the Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter supplements organized into a new super detachment?
I would bet a whole "Start Collecting" box that they aren't.
There may be some rehashed formations (probably the helbrute ones and the Kharn one) but I suspect most of the formations (and the inevitable decurion style superformation) in here will be open to all flavours of chaos marine.
I wouldn't count on it. Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter are mentioned specifically here. The IG superformation is available only to Cadians, so it's not like there's no precedent.
gungo wrote:To be fair it's not that much cheaper than the resin version.
Resin (or really wasn't it polystone?) will still probably look better.
The void shield generator in resin had about two years of being much better rulewise than the plastic version will get after the faq.
Yeah... I did not get mine in the original release - bought it probs 2 years ago second hand NIB. I paid through the fething nose for it
It was my favorite, most prized model.
Also FAQ? What do we know about the rules changing?
120 cad for the generator and 43 cad for Kharn !!!!
After the reasonably priced watchmaster (30$), I tought GW were adopting a more sensible pricing strategy. Seem like they have no idea where they are going
Nice to see the generator actually being put into production properly. That was a stupid decision to make [limiting the original release] and just seemed to add to the view that GW doesn't know what the feth they are doing.
Also, Haha at those who have a stockpile of them for resale and those that paid silly prices from scrapers
I imagine formation wise will depend on what if anything comes out. Khárn by himself with a book and cards is not gonna do much.
New zerkers, chaos marines, havocs, updated termies, oblit/muties, power armoured lord, new vehicles or at least some extra onto the rhino and land raider. Any of those would be a huge boon to chaos fans. Fingers crossed its more than just the betrayer
streetsamurai wrote:120 cad for the generator and 43 cad for Kharn !!!!
After the reasonably priced watchmaster (30$), I tought GW were adopting a more sensible pricing strategy. Seem like they have no idea where they are going
Sadly instead of the saviour that alot of people were hoping Kevin Roundtree is, I guess he is a Master Magician. GW is now all Smoke and Mirrors. Same old same old. I really have no faith in the new 40K 8th edition. I hope I am wrong, I really do, but now the pattern of GW pricing is coming out, it's just smoke and mirrors. The box sets look like GW is a great deal and once you start buying them and only want individual kits, you still have to pay through the roof.
Just look at Nids. Want anything else besides a Hive Tyrant, Warriors and Gargoyles there are no savings now for them. So has GW really changed? Yeah they have changed with a cheaper buy in, but to stay you still need to pay.
Maybe the Age of Roundtree will not last long after all. Smoke and Mirrors. While people love magic tricks and shows, they still don't like to be considered suckers to keep continuing. Until 8th edition comes out for the Real GW to see where they are, right now, GW is till making crap rules. Just look at the CSM new psychic powers. Same old GW.
Again, I hope I am proven wrong but now would be a good time to change the rules to a better system not a year from now.
streetsamurai wrote:120 cad for the generator and 43 cad for Kharn !!!!
After the reasonably priced watchmaster (30$), I tought GW were adopting a more sensible pricing strategy. Seem like they have no idea where they are going
Sadly instead of the saviour that alot of people were hoping Kevin Roundtree is, I guess he is a Master Magician. GW is now all Smoke and Mirrors. Same old same old. I really have no faith in the new 40K 8th edition. I hope I am wrong, I really do, but now the pattern of GW pricing is coming out, it's just smoke and mirrors. The box sets look like GW is a great deal and once you start buying them and only want individual kits, you still have to pay through the roof.
Just look at Nids. Want anything else besides a Hive Tyrant, Warriors and Gargoyles there are no savings now for them. So has GW really changed? Yeah they have changed with a cheaper buy in, but to stay you still need to pay.
Maybe the Age of Roundtree will not last long after all. Smoke and Mirrors. While people love magic tricks and shows, they still don't like to be considered suckers to keep continuing. Until 8th edition comes out for the Real GW to see where they are, right now, GW is till making crap rules. Just look at the CSM new psychic powers. Same old GW.
Again, I hope I am proven wrong but now would be a good time to change the rules to a better system not a year from now.
What should they do, then? Make products at a loss?
You claiming Roundtree's effort as "smoke and mirrors" is silly. If you can't afford it, there is nothing Roundtree can do. These are niche products requiring a plastic mold. That's a very expensive combination.
GW's pricing is not easily fixable until there are more players. There won't be more players until the game is fixed. Roundtree is trying to fix the game. Once completed, the prices come down. There is no smoke and mirrors involved, just a long, drawn-out recovery from the garbage heap he inherited. It may take through 8th ed to fix the game. If so, and if he keeps doing everything else to fix the game, I am willing to wait.
At this point, I would rather them wait to release the good stuff until the next codex/edition. Let them put up mediocre rules to help sell the models in the time being.
zedmeister wrote: Nice to see the generator actually being put into production properly. That was a stupid decision to make [limiting the original release] and just seemed to add to the view that GW doesn't know what the feth they are doing.
Also, Haha at those who have a stockpile of them for resale and those that paid silly prices from scrapers
Now, about the plasma obliterator...
Hope we see them soon. When I got to Sweden to study in September the FLGS had 4 so I told the 40Kapoc group back home in 'Murica and yep, they wanted all of those plasma obliterators. But yeah, would love to have a few more for the tables.
Ah, I see.
I followed his log on Warseer where I believe he went under a different alias.
I have no other alias, I am Subtle Discord! *Cough!* ok, maybe not so melodramatic, but I have no other handles. I have a clone WIP log here at Dakka as well, that now shows the same content that all of my 'Legion Rising' logs contain, but my B&C WIP log is the longest, reaching all the way back to my first post.
If people like the current small selection of what I have to offer, just wait, this is just the beginning. I'm taking my final thesis year at college studying Industrial Design (so I can even better at making awesome stuff!) and once that's finished spring 2017, The Dark Works will become a full-time endeavor, and I have much more planned.
In closing, my shop is about quality over quantity, so look closely at the pictures of my kits. What you see is exactly what you'll get. I pride myself on the fit, finish, and execution of every kit I produce now, and plan to produce in the future. I hope to become the official unofficial 'other' Forge World, so to speak.
JimOnMars wrote: What should they do, then? Make products at a loss?
You claiming Roundtree's effort as "smoke and mirrors" is silly. If you can't afford it, there is nothing Roundtree can do. These are niche products requiring a plastic mold. That's a very expensive combination.
GW's pricing is not easily fixable until there are more players. There won't be more players until the game is fixed. Roundtree is trying to fix the game. Once completed, the prices come down. There is no smoke and mirrors involved, just a long, drawn-out recovery from the garbage heap he inherited. It may take through 8th ed to fix the game. If so, and if he keeps doing everything else to fix the game, I am willing to wait.
If 8th is just as bad as 7th, then feth it.
Make a product at a loss? Give me a break there would be more sales. For the longest time, I say from 2000-2010 it showed people are willing to accept crap/poor/poorly written rules and still stay with GW. But GW finally priced themselves out for a lot of people. So yes, lower your prices to get those people back again. People will not come back if the prices are not lowered. The smoke and mirrors of these new boxsets looked like GW changed, and heck even I started buying again, but now all I see that these "get started now sets" are nothing but the free "plastic crack hit" to get you in or come back. . Thing is, for a lot of people coming in new, they will shocked to see the rest of the game is still expensive to play and will not be sticking around. So how is GW going to get back all those people who left? How is GW going to get those people who started to keep buying?
Time will tell. So far time is telling that in the 5 months, January to May the "get started boxsets" are not working and people are not buying after they are bought the Get Started Box sets. I know I haven't bought anything for my armies after getting the boxsets since I don't see the value in them. Plastic crack will only take the company so far and people get cured real fast when they see the prices of the other products that you can't buy in a Get Started box set.
So GW will need to start lowering their prices if they want people to start seeing the value on the whole, not just getting into it. Right now especially the mess that the 40K rules are in right now, there is no value for a lot of people. For some there is, but they are not buying enough to keep giving GW profits anymore.
buddha wrote: My hopes of having useful chaos marines is getting dashed with each new rumor release. No legions, khorne focused, no new points. Le sigh.
The optimist in me hopes that the Black crusade series and Fenris part two are being used to prepare the ground for a new codex. The pessimist thinks that they are throwing Chaos a minimum effort bone. Guess time will tell
Well... the more rumors on this *potential* chaos release... ie: 'Traitors Hate'
the less I give a feth.
*If* these rumors are right, it stinks of yet another disjointed Black Legion 'chaos undivided but totally clueless on the battlefield' book with useless formations. This, mashed with Crimson Slaughter because they're still trying to shift posessed models.
This appears to be going in the same Khorne-fest direction that AoS went in with some 'undivided' for everyone else.
Guess my money will go towards another couple of boxes of plastic Vikings and Saxons in that case.
If I ever get around to it, I'll just stick to my plan of buying an Imperial Bastion or Mechanicum building set from a discounter and $12 plasma ball from Amazon. Congrats, GW, instead of getting me to buy a shiny new kit, I'll just buy an older one instead and a third party piece to go with it.
JimOnMars wrote:
What should they do, then? Make products at a loss?
You claiming Roundtree's effort as "smoke and mirrors" is silly. If you can't afford it, there is nothing Roundtree can do. These are niche products requiring a plastic mold. That's a very expensive combination.
GW's pricing is not easily fixable until there are more players. There won't be more players until the game is fixed. Roundtree is trying to fix the game. Once completed, the prices come down. There is no smoke and mirrors involved, just a long, drawn-out recovery from the garbage heap he inherited. It may take through 8th ed to fix the game. If so, and if he keeps doing everything else to fix the game, I am willing to wait.
If 8th is just as bad as 7th, then feth it.
Make a product at a loss? Give me a break there would be more sales. For the longest time, I say from 2000-2010 it showed people are willing to accept crap/poor/poorly written rules and still stay with GW. But GW finally priced themselves out for a lot of people. So yes, lower your prices to get those people back again. People will not come back if the prices are not lowered. The smoke and mirrors of these new boxsets looked like GW changed, and heck even I started buying again, but now all I see that these "get started now sets" are nothing but the free "plastic crack hit" to get you in or come back. . Thing is, for a lot of people coming in new, they will shocked to see the rest of the game is still expensive to play and will not be sticking around. So how is GW going to get back all those people who left? How is GW going to get those people who started to keep buying?
Time will tell. So far time is telling that in the 5 months, January to May the "get started boxsets" are not working and people are not buying after they are bought the Get Started Box sets. I know I haven't bought anything for my armies after getting the boxsets since I don't see the value in them. Plastic crack will only take the company so far and people get cured real fast when they see the prices of the other products that you can't buy in a Get Started box set.
So GW will need to start lowering their prices if they want people to start seeing the value on the whole, not just getting into it. Right now especially the mess that the 40K rules are in right now, there is no value for a lot of people. For some there is, but they are not buying enough to keep giving GW profits anymore.
Firstly, people will have less of an issue with price if they're enthusiastic to play the game. There's a line, of course, but a better game is quite possibly a bigger priority for a return to growth than lower prices. Perhaps not for you personally, but you aren't every GW customer.
Secondly, GW reported a much better second half (January to May) than first half. So if it isn't the SC boxes, what is it?
You will not see a lowering of prices. You will continue to see an increase in value, if that isn't enough for you, then your GW journey is likely already over for you.
For me, it lives or dies by what happens with 8th 40K, prices be damned.
Wulfmar wrote: Well... the more rumors on this *potential* chaos release... ie: 'Traitors Hate'
the less I give a feth.
*If* these rumors are right, it stinks of yet another disjointed Black Legion 'chaos undivided but totally clueless on the battlefield' book with useless formations. This, mashed with Crimson Slaughter because they're still trying to shift posessed models.
This appears to be going in the same Khorne-fest direction that AoS went in with some 'undivided' for everyone else.
Guess my money will go towards another couple of boxes of plastic Vikings and Saxons in that case.
At the very least Age of Sigmar had the nurgle stuff from End Times and new Tzeentch stuff from Silver Towers.
Kharn at $33? Makes sense. It's not as low as some of the recent clampacks but it is a named character vs a generic. Lower demand for a chqracter tied to 1/4 of one army vs generics thay can be used by anyone. And deathwatch are especially low since a small team of them make a good allied detachment. I'm expecting Eldrad to be 33 or 36 as well.
That's a sweet VSG
But the problem I have with this and GW vsg is most people play the 3 shield relay and 3 of either of those is $300 and a ton of space on the board. However most times I see people play it with 1 vsg representing 3 building relays but I don't think that is kosher.
Azreal13 wrote:
Firstly, people will have less of an issue with price if they're enthusiastic to play the game. There's a line, of course, but a better game is quite possibly a bigger priority for a return to growth than lower prices. Perhaps not for you personally, but you aren't every GW customer.
True but people are not enthusiastic to play the game. There are less and less people playing. Also it's still a years off before 8th comes in. That is still one more year where people are still not enthusiastic to play the game. You would think now with this new Chaos rules coming out would be a good time to show how GW is changing for the rules. So I guess we don't have to wait till next year, just 2 weeks and we should have our answer where GW is going with 40K rules.
Secondly, GW reported a much better second half (January to May) than first half. So if it isn't the SC boxes, what is it?
No idea. You telling me that sales in the first half really tanked that bad? After all if it wasn't for the licensing to video games there is still a 4 million pound 8 million dollar loss. So if the second half did better, than that means a huge freaking loss in the first half.
You will not see a lowering of prices. You will continue to see an increase in value, if that isn't enough for you, then your GW journey is likely already over for you.
For me, it lives or dies by what happens with 8th 40K, prices be damned.
I am not the only one who doesn't see value right now.
I agree that great clear concise rules, people will have a less of an issue purchasing high priced products. But we are not there yet for great clear concise rules are we? Are people going to wait till 8th edition? One year away is a lot of time for people to loose interest. Like I said, especially for Chaos Space Marine fans, if this new product coming out is just pathetic like a lot of people are thinking right now they are not going to have faith that 8th edition will fix it. After all they will be the last or first codex again for a new edition.
Azreal13 wrote:
Firstly, people will have less of an issue with price if they're enthusiastic to play the game. There's a line, of course, but a better game is quite possibly a bigger priority for a return to growth than lower prices. Perhaps not for you personally, but you aren't every GW customer.
True but people are not enthusiastic to play the game. There are less and less people playing. Also it's still a years off before 8th comes in. That is still one more year where people are still not enthusiastic to play the game. You would think now with this new Chaos rules coming out would be a good time to show how GW is changing for the rules. So I guess we don't have to wait till next year, just 2 weeks and we should have our answer where GW is going with 40K rules.
They're in 7th, therefore they are hard wired into the 7th way of doing things. Panda has already called this edition a dead duck from GW's perspective, and that we won't be getting any more meaningful updates. There is zero reason to expect Traitor's Hate to show anything but conformation to the established campaign book paradigm already laid down. It will be indicative of nothing to come in 8th.
Although, if the leaked power being a direct clone of a C:SM power is true, that could be a positive if it's an inclination of them making C:CSM closer in parity (and what simpler way to establish parity in the short term than mirror imaging?)
Secondly, GW reported a much better second half (January to May) than first half. So if it isn't the SC boxes, what is it?
No idea. You telling me that sales in the first half really tanked that bad? After all if it wasn't for the licensing to video games there is still a 4 million pound 8 million dollar loss. So if the second half did better, than that means a huge freaking loss in the first half.
I'm not telling you anything, GW themselves published that very thing. They had a poor first half and disappointing December, but managed to make up a lot of ground in the latter half of the year. £4m doesn't even come close to $8m, even prior to Brexit, but that's not important, their revenue YOY was about the same. Profit is no indicator in this regard, far more things can impact profit than can impact revenue. (GW claim they've reinvested a bunch of it into the retail arm, and if that isn't just spin, and it probably isn't, they actually made about the same profit as last year, they just spent more of it.)
You will not see a lowering of prices. You will continue to see an increase in value, if that isn't enough for you, then your GW journey is likely already over for you.
For me, it lives or dies by what happens with 8th 40K, prices be damned.
I am not the only one who doesn't see value right now.
Really?
Calth, Overkill, Kill team, Renegade, Stormcloud Assault, Start Collecting, £18 models free with White Dwarf, with discounted subscriptions, bundles of characters at a significant discount etc, etc, etc.
You're not seeing the value? Even when most of these are available through third parties at even further discounts?
Sorry, but there's no arguing with that - maybe you don't want to buy these things, but there's no denying the value, these discounts, when factored into the generally high quality of construction of GW kits, which arguably justifies a premium over some manufacturers (just not the premium they've been trying to extract,) make them compelling offers.
If 8th manages to make the game interesting to me to play once again, GW will have turned things around completely for me. But that is the biggest and hardest one of all.
without jumping into aos being better for 40k, I would gladly prefer a 7th with nerfed invi, charging passengers from stationary vehicles, option to disembark from a chariot, and faq refinement
streetsamurai wrote:120 cad for the generator and 43 cad for Kharn !!!!
After the reasonably priced watchmaster (30$), I tought GW were adopting a more sensible pricing strategy. Seem like they have no idea where they are going
Sadly instead of the saviour that alot of people were hoping Kevin Roundtree is, I guess he is a Master Magician. GW is now all Smoke and Mirrors. Same old same old. I really have no faith in the new 40K 8th edition. I hope I am wrong, I really do, but now the pattern of GW pricing is coming out, it's just smoke and mirrors. The box sets look like GW is a great deal and once you start buying them and only want individual kits, you still have to pay through the roof.
Just look at Nids. Want anything else besides a Hive Tyrant, Warriors and Gargoyles there are no savings now for them. So has GW really changed? Yeah they have changed with a cheaper buy in, but to stay you still need to pay.
Maybe the Age of Roundtree will not last long after all. Smoke and Mirrors. While people love magic tricks and shows, they still don't like to be considered suckers to keep continuing. Until 8th edition comes out for the Real GW to see where they are, right now, GW is till making crap rules. Just look at the CSM new psychic powers. Same old GW.
Again, I hope I am proven wrong but now would be a good time to change the rules to a better system not a year from now.
Agreed. I've said it before but I don't really understand the love Roundtree is getting from a segment of the community. The start collecting box are not better than the old battalion boxes (in fact, they are probably worst, since they include an overpriced character, which most of the time, make buying them multiple times unappealing), and the exciting new product and armies (specialist games, genestealer cult, dw, HH) were probably initiated under Kirby., considering the lead time. I'll give him a bit of credit for making GW a bit more open, but even then, that is pretty much the least of my concern.
I guess it's a typical crowd reaction. A bit like how politician are always highly regarded not long after they enter office, even if they don't change the policies of their predecessor
It was the same exact price!
Don't mind them. They just want to cry about anything GW do.
However on the flip side polystone is a much better detail material than plastic so I do expect a small degradation in quality however polystone does weight a ton.
Ghaz wrote: Am I the only one who's noticed that it says it comes on seven sprues?
With scenery, the number of sprues hardly indicates anything. If sprues mean 'frames that are separate in a box", then Overlord Bastion (Chaos Dreadhold) alone comes with 12 or so sprues.
Unless GW are using sliding molds, the pillars alone require at least four parts each. That easily fills one sprue that would be duplicated four times. I'm looking forward to see how this is made in plastic.
I figured out the price issue. After a little Google fu, I realised that the price of the generator is the same in the west but much more expensive in the east. I guess this is because they are shipping from the uk instead of China. Still sucks though. The yen price has increased from ¥10,000 to ¥13,000. I hope this is a lesson to everyone to check facts carefully before overreacting.
What should they do, then? Make products at a loss?
They wouldn't be making product at loss. See how deathwatch captain is cheaper. Hell it didn't get price increase DESPITE GETTING EXTRA SPRUE!
Look at the other companies who sell similar quality plastic for cheaper. And GW has potential to sell even cheaper for better profits. They are the ones who could swamp market with high quality cheap models. Other companies couldn't compete with price if GW wanted to.
Your arqument would carry more weight if there wouldn't be other companies selling cheaper despite being less suited for cheap mass production than GW...
GW prices are high because GW decided they are ferrari or apple of miniatures so can put in deluxe price tag. Cheap models don't fit into their "we are seller of elite miniatures" image.
gungo wrote: It was the same exact price!
Don't mind them. They just want to cry about anything GW do.
No. It was cheaper for us. It is now more expensive. 42% more. We're not just 'cry[ing] about anything GW do'. Get a clue.
While it is understandable to be annoyed with both other users and GW, this does seem to have been a unique situation. The standard GW rate is $100 Us equals $170 Australian as seen with other products they sell. Since the previous version of the generator was manufactured in China it was cheaper for those on this side of the world. It makes me wish they would make more stuff in China.
GW set prices according to some algorithm only they understand, and maintain the same price in all territories regardless of foreign exchange differences.
If the price has gone up in Japan after transferring production from China to the UK, it clearly doesn't take into account the collapse in value of the GBP and simultaneous rise of the JPY.
I'm not sure it's fair to say that everything good GW has done lately is one step forward and one product that's more expensive in one place is two steps back...
ImAGeek wrote: I'm not sure it's fair to say that everything good GW has done lately is one step forward and one product that's more expensive in one place is two steps back...
They were already many steps back. You could even say they were in step 'debt'. They have a long way to go.
Putting out the same model in cheaper materials for 142% the price is not step forward.
And to think the DW prices had me actually hopeful. Well, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
I'm not sure it's fair to say that everything good GW has done lately is one step forward and one product that's more expensive in one place is two steps back...
Why not? they make improvements and then they revert to Kirby methodology, Like making the new plastic Kharn more expensive . How difficult is it to check that they have a similar set that is cheaper and has more in it?
The Void Shield Generator comes on SEVEN sprues. A Wraithknight costs 90 EUR. It has three sprues (as big as six of the smaller infantry ones). There is no step backwards, the price is okay for what you get. Even when looking beyond GW pricing. Privateer Press is making you pay through the nose for such a kit.
Could someone please provide a White Dwarf photo of the price of the original resin kit? I have not found it online and would like to see how much it was in EUR / GBP.
Has anyone even been reading my posts? In the west (Europe and North America)the new void shield generator is the same price as the resin one. In the east (Japan, Australia etc) it is more expensive. That said the new version is in line with standard price differences between Uk and America. The malefic gate for example is $100 is the states and $170 in Australia.
I am certain that this is due to the place in which the products are manufactured and has nothing to do with the change in material.
The steep price of the new Kharn is a much more reasonable thing to be annoyed about.
Chikout wrote: Has anyone even been reading my posts? In the west (Europe and North America)the new void shield generator is the same price as the resin one. In the east (Japan, Australia etc) it is more expensive. That said the new version is in line with standard price differences between Uk and America. The malefic gate for example is $100 is the states and $170 in Australia.
I am certain that this is due to the place in which the products are manufactured and has nothing to do with the change in material.
The steep price of the new Kharn is a much more reasonable thing to be annoyed about.
The people complaining about the price don't care about your facts. They just want to whine and complain about 'evil' GW and there 'evil' price-gouging ways.
That's a sweet VSG
But the problem I have with this and GW vsg is most people play the 3 shield relay and 3 of either of those is $300 and a ton of space on the board. However most times I see people play it with 1 vsg representing 3 building relays but I don't think that is kosher.
Might want to try reading the rules on the VSG first, one generator can be upgraded to have 3 shields.
The number of sprues alone is irrelevant. It's the number of different sprues that matters. A sprue by itself costs GW pennies to make. It's the mold that is expensive. So unless three or more different molds are involved, the cost is unjustifiable.
Is that why we're getting a supplement made out of cut content from two reprints as well as copies of loyalist powers with new spooky names?
To be perfectly fair, all the supplements in the world could not fix the mess that CSM have been in since mid-6th.
We straight up need a new book. Yeah, supplemental additions like expanded disciplines, formations and detachments is all well and nice...but it doesn't fix the core problems. It's literally sticking a bandaid over necrosis to cover it up instead of trying to treat it. A pretty band aid though. It even has Ninja Turtles on it.
CSM core problems?
Points costs - to my knowledge we're pretty much the only army that lacks a beneficial army wide special rule...and the closest equivalent we get is faction specific and we have to pay points for it. Our units are awkwardly overpointed across the board as though it was a 5th ed. Codex.
Random tables - Chaos =/= Random. 40k Chaos is more akin to Anarchy than Randomness. Spawndom and ascension are elements of corruption, not randomness. Part of my problem with the Eye of the Gods table is the fact it penalises us with its very existence. We don't have half the options Loyallist SM characters get - those are floating inside the table somewhere. And our points are tweaked to account for 'a benefit we may possibly get if we roll the right combination of numbers'.
Same with possessed - random table of trash rules, points cost tweaked to account for something we might get.
Not that we are guaranteed to get. Not that we can reliably get. But what we may possibly get. And these overpointed CSM characters don't account for the dud rolls we get - you know, Shred on the guy armed with Lightning Claws. +1 Initiative on the guy with the Power Fist. +1 BS on the close combat character. Those duds. Those right stinkers.
And I'm not even touching on our strange Jack-Of-All-Trades list which is remarkably sub par in every single trade because almost every other army is a specialist that does it better. We've been left this bland, open list to try and let us build Legions while SMs have had Chapter Tactics for 2 editions of their book now which pretty much does the same thing, better. Like, conceptually, WTF even is Chaos? Renegades? Dark Mechanicus? Legions? I don't know. And I get a codex of sub par flexi units for variety rather than GW taking the risk of splitting into multiple faction books or even using a simplistic trait system that has existed before and was much loved then.
No, to fix this we essentially would need a whole new codex with rules rebalanced, units tweaked and more.
Instead we get a supplement.
An overpointed unit will still be horrendously overpointed even if it's in a formation. Even if that formation is part of a decurion. Tacking on more special rules isn't what our rotting festering sore of a wound needs for treatment. I mean, hells yeah, I'm happy with the idea of a TMNT band-aid...but kind of want to point out that we could do with some anti-septic at the very least to try and help fix some of the problems.
Apparently, the sprues are laser cut and each one cost tens of thousands of dollars to make. So multiple sprues that are the same drastically reduces the cost to GW. From what I can tell, GW doesn't really appear to use gated sprues (sprues that are the same for one part, but different for another). There are telltale marks on gated sprues that indicate that. So if there is a sprue that is largely identical, but still contains different parts, that requires a completely different, highly expensive, mold to produce.
It really is bizarre that the price is drastically different for countrits like Australia and Japan, but not the US. Sorry to all the Aussies out there.
So that people can compare the 2014 price to the new price:
Spoiler:
Currency: Old/New British Pound Moneys: 65/60 Euro: 85/85 dkr: 650/600 skr: 780/720 nkr: 720/660 (A bit fuzzy) zl: 325/300 (Again, fuzzy) fething USA! Burgers, Chicks, and Freedom Guns!: 100/100 Canadian Monopoly Money: 120/120 (In the new picture, it kind of looks like 170. Fuzzy) AU (Astronomical Units? fething awesome!): 120/170 NZ: 130/200, because feth you! rmb (Now I know you’re just making gak up, GW): 650/600 Yen: 10,500/13,800 (Might be 13,600)
So, it went down in price in some areas, but up substantially in others.
So the plastic one is cheaper in China and the UK, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Poland, the same in the US, Canada and the European Union and more expensive in Australia, New Zealand and Japan compared to the old one.
Ok then. It being cheaper in China kinda ruins the "old one was made in China so costs all countries in the Eastern Hemisphere less" theory.
The sad fact is that GW charges an outrageous shipping charge to the east. When I order a product here in Japan on the Japanese web store it is usually shipped from the uk. They obviously sell few enough products here that it is not worth keeping a warehouse in Japan stocked. This has a direct effect on the pricing. I am sure Australia is similar, though I would imagine they have a much bigger audience there.
Edit. Ok I'll admit the China price is an outlier. That's odd. They are paying £68 at current exchange rates. Here in Japan it is £103
Ghaz wrote: Am I the only one who's noticed that it says it comes on seven sprues?
With scenery, the number of sprues hardly indicates anything. If sprues mean 'frames that are separate in a box", then Overlord Bastion (Chaos Dreadhold) alone comes with 12 or so sprues.
The Dreadhold is also a bundle, giving you the Skull Keep plus extra sprues.
Why does GW even bother with different pricing in different locations. Just put everything in £s and let the exchange rates and S&H take care of the rest.
I am not the only one who doesn't see value right now.
Really?
Calth, Overkill, Kill team, Renegade, Stormcloud Assault, Start Collecting, £18 models free with White Dwarf, with discounted subscriptions, bundles of characters at a significant discount etc, etc, etc.
You're not seeing the value? Even when most of these are available through third parties at even further discounts?
Sorry, but there's no arguing with that - maybe you don't want to buy these things, but there's no denying the value, these discounts, when factored into the generally high quality of construction of GW kits, which arguably justifies a premium over some manufacturers (just not the premium they've been trying to extract,) make them compelling offers.
If 8th manages to make the game interesting to me to play once again, GW will have turned things around completely for me. But that is the biggest and hardest one of all.
You said value in the game, I am not talking about individual boxsets that clearly have savings value for money. But for your example since I am mostly filmier with Tyranids where is the value if I want to buy Mawlocks? I don't have no money savings there? Also where is the value in Mawlocks because of poor wording, and poor rules and then FAQs that make them even more confusing now?
Please don't say there is no arguing, I am going by what you said. So if I don't see value why are you moving the goal posts now? Maybe we are talking about two totally different things. You are talking money value, I am talking about gaming value and worth value in time, energy, money and effort.
ImAGeek wrote: I'm not sure it's fair to say that everything good GW has done lately is one step forward and one product that's more expensive in one place is two steps back...
They were already many steps back. You could even say they were in step 'debt'. They have a long way to go.
Putting out the same model in cheaper materials for 142% the price is not step forward.
And to think the DW prices had me actually hopeful. Well, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Can you please explain your 142% price? How much was it before and how much is it now for you?
Gordon Shumway wrote: Why does GW even bother with different pricing in different locations. Just put everything in £s and let the exchange rates and S&H take care of the rest.
Because the exchange rate changes literally every minute. Between clicking put in cart and go to checkout the price will have changed. On Brexit day you would have some prices changing by 20% in one day. They also want to have the same price on the web store as they do instore. Every business in the world operates on a similar principle to GW.
Take video games. If we go by current exchange rates persona 5 is £55 in the uk, £45 is the us and £71 in Japan.
To get back on topic the October white dwarf has an ultimate guide to something redacted by the inquisition. So more 40k then?
Holy crap, it went down in price in the UK (-8%), and up here? Give me a break...
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Ok then. It being cheaper in China kinda ruins the "old one was made in China so costs all countries in the Eastern Hemisphere less" theory.
So I guess it's back to "Minimum wage!".
Chikout wrote: Edit. Ok I'll admit the China price is an outlier. That's odd.
You could almost say that shipping has nothing to do with it. Of course that's not true, shipping is a factor, but not a +42% factor, not when the price goes down elsewhere in the world.
Gordon Shumway wrote: Why does GW even bother with different pricing in different locations. Just put everything in £s and let the exchange rates and S&H take care of the rest.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! For Americans at least, we get some simple to excellent discounts if we pay for GW products in other countries in their currency. Selfish, but enjoyable so far Someone already mentioned the real reason above.
Or an archaic one, and still think that £1 = AUD$3. The closest it's been to that was £1 = AUD$2.60, and that was in October 2008. As I recall it, something pretty significant happened in 2008... can't remember what it was called though... GFC... Global Fried Chicken? Nah that doesn't sound right...
I realy want to know how they are planning to sell this monster (VSG) ? With the current rules it's a thing to use but when the FAQ gets official it's not half as good. I bet they will make it immune to melta, haywire and grav even after the FAQ to increase sales.
jesper77 wrote: I realy want to know how they are planning to sell this monster (VSG) ? With the current rules it's a thing to use but when the FAQ gets official it's not half as good. I bet they will make it immune to melta, haywire and grav even after the FAQ to increase sales.
They probably plan to sell it in a box. Don't quote me on that though.
jesper77 wrote: I realy want to know how they are planning to sell this monster (VSG) ? With the current rules it's a thing to use but when the FAQ gets official it's not half as good. I bet they will make it immune to melta, haywire and grav even after the FAQ to increase sales.
Sorry, got lost in all the numerous pages that GW released as their drafts so I missed it, what exactly is it that nerfs the VSG in the FAQ?
jesper77 wrote: I realy want to know how they are planning to sell this monster (VSG) ? With the current rules it's a thing to use but when the FAQ gets official it's not half as good. I bet they will make it immune to melta, haywire and grav even after the FAQ to increase sales.
Sorry, got lost in all the numerous pages that GW released as their drafts so I missed it, what exactly is it that nerfs the VSG in the FAQ?
I believe the nerf is that the entire unit must be within 12" of the VSG to get the shield save.
No more conga-lining the units to spread across the board.
jesper77 wrote: I realy want to know how they are planning to sell this monster (VSG) ? With the current rules it's a thing to use but when the FAQ gets official it's not half as good. I bet they will make it immune to melta, haywire and grav even after the FAQ to increase sales.
Sorry, got lost in all the numerous pages that GW released as their drafts so I missed it, what exactly is it that nerfs the VSG in the FAQ?
I believe the nerf is that the entire unit must be within 12" of the VSG to get the shield save.
No more conga-lining the units to spread across the board.
But the rules for the void shield already said the entire unit had to be inside to get the benefit.
Some people will try just about anything to get an advantage in this game, thank feth I only play with people I know these days.
Ah well, I managed to get two of the resin ones for cheap enough, hopefully the plastic one is a good fit if I decide to make the formation
Kijamon wrote: But the rules for the void shield already said the entire unit had to be inside to get the benefit.
Incorrect!
Stronghold Assault wrote:Each projected void shield has a 12" area of effect (measured from any point on the Void Shield Generator building), known as a Void Shield Zone. Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield. If a unit is within 12" of more than one Void Shield Generator, and so within more than one Void Shield Zone when it is hit, randomly determine which of the buildings' projected void shields is hit.
Warhammer 40,000: The Rules wrote:Distances between models and all other objects (which can be other models, terrain features and so on) are always measured from the closest point on one base to the closest point on the other base. Distances between units are always measured to and from the bases of the closest models in each of the units.
Q: The coverage range of the Void Shield Generators’ void shields is 12". If a unit is not entirely within the 12" range, does it still benefit from the Projected Void Shield special rule?
A: No.
Q: The coverage range of the Void Shield Generators’ void shields is 12". If a unit is not entirely within the 12" range, does it still benefit from the Projected Void Shield special rule?
A: No.
Kijamon wrote: But the rules for the void shield already said the entire unit had to be inside to get the benefit.
Incorrect!
Stronghold Assault wrote:Each projected void shield has a 12" area of effect (measured from any point on the Void Shield Generator building), known as a Void Shield Zone. Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield. If a unit is within 12" of more than one Void Shield Generator, and so within more than one Void Shield Zone when it is hit, randomly determine which of the buildings' projected void shields is hit.
Warhammer 40,000: The Rules wrote:Distances between models and all other objects (which can be other models, terrain features and so on) are always measured from the closest point on one base to the closest point on the other base. Distances between units are always measured to and from the bases of the closest models in each of the units.
Come on, they even made the effort to write this:
Each projected void shield has a 12" area of effect (measured from any point on the Void Shield Generator building), known as a Void Shield Zone. Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield.
...instead of this:
Any shooting attack targeting a unit within 12'' of the Void Shield Generator instead hits the projected void shield.
Yes, it's not 100% clear but one could see what they intended - an unusual piece of terrain where you get a Void shield instead of a cover save. And you don't get a cover save provided by terrain for any models that are not within. It's not a nerfing, just a clarification.
Gordon Shumway wrote: Why does GW even bother with different pricing in different locations. Just put everything in £s and let the exchange rates and S&H take care of the rest.
That is all well and good when buying online from one supplier but when you have people selling items in physical stores you can't just get them to change the price daily based on the exchange rate.
Surprisingly retail is a lot more complicated that.
Chikout wrote: The sad fact is that GW charges an outrageous shipping charge to the east. When I order a product here in Japan on the Japanese web store it is usually shipped from the uk. They obviously sell few enough products here that it is not worth keeping a warehouse in Japan stocked. This has a direct effect on the pricing. I am sure Australia is similar, though I would imagine they have a much bigger audience there.
Edit. Ok I'll admit the China price is an outlier. That's odd. They are paying £68 at current exchange rates. Here in Japan it is £103
Australia does have a warehouse they even box products there to keep costs down.(sending sprues/flat boxes to save space) That warehouse supplies nz and au.
Gordon Shumway wrote: Why does GW even bother with different pricing in different locations. Just put everything in £s and let the exchange rates and S&H take care of the rest.
That is all well and good when buying online from one supplier but when you have people selling items in physical stores you can't just get them to change the price daily based on the exchange rate.
Surprisingly retail is a lot more complicated that.
Living in a town without a GW retailer, I continually forget that they have actual stores as I do all my purchasing online. My bad there.
Kijamon wrote: But the rules for the void shield already said the entire unit had to be inside to get the benefit.
Incorrect!
Stronghold Assault wrote:Each projected void shield has a 12" area of effect (measured from any point on the Void Shield Generator building), known as a Void Shield Zone. Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield. If a unit is within 12" of more than one Void Shield Generator, and so within more than one Void Shield Zone when it is hit, randomly determine which of the buildings' projected void shields is hit.
Warhammer 40,000: The Rules wrote:Distances between models and all other objects (which can be other models, terrain features and so on) are always measured from the closest point on one base to the closest point on the other base. Distances between units are always measured to and from the bases of the closest models in each of the units.
Come on, they even made the effort to write this:
Each projected void shield has a 12" area of effect (measured from any point on the Void Shield Generator building), known as a Void Shield Zone. Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield.
...instead of this:
Any shooting attack targeting a unit within 12'' of the Void Shield Generator instead hits the projected void shield.
Yes, it's not 100% clear but one could see what they intended - an unusual piece of terrain where you get a Void shield instead of a cover save. And you don't get a cover save provided by terrain for any models that are not within. It's not a nerfing, just a clarification.
Yes, with a little more effort they could have written what they intended to write instead of something different. With a little more effort.
lol. If your idea of fun is to continually roll dices to get 4+, and to prance around a table to get a reroll, AOS sure is a better game. And lol agains at AOS rules being clear. There's been a ton of complaints about how unclear and confusing the rules are despite being only 4 pages long
for the sake of avoiding irreversible levels of derail-able thread closing material, got me a new rumor ^^ ... guess what apparently someone said he spotted a new abaddon model in the campaign
aracersss wrote: for the sake of avoiding irreversible levels of derail-able thread closing material, got me a new rumor ^^ ... guess what apparently someone said he spotted a new abaddon model in the campaign
Shut. The. Front. Door. You mean the Abaddon the Armless memes might FINALLY die? If it looks good, I might actually pick it up. I have decided to give in and start collecting character models I like from other factions. First was Eldrad from Death Masque. I like the Winged Autarch model too. I will probably pick up a Tau Crisis Suit Commander at some point. And a nice Abaddon would be a fun addition to my collection. I am not ready to pull the trigger on that Kharn model, yet.
aracersss wrote: for the sake of avoiding irreversible levels of derail-able thread closing material, got me a new rumor ^^ ... guess what apparently someone said he spotted a new abaddon model in the campaign
Shut. The. Front. Door. You mean the Abaddon the Armless memes might FINALLY die? If it looks good, I might actually pick it up. I have decided to give in and start collecting character models I like from other factions. First was Eldrad from Death Masque. I like the Winged Autarch model too. I will probably pick up a Tau Crisis Suit Commander at some point. And a nice Abaddon would be a fun addition to my collection. I am not ready to pull the trigger on that Kharn model, yet.
That meme won't die because he's incompetent at his job, despite what his fans would have you believe.
aracersss wrote: for the sake of avoiding irreversible levels of derail-able thread closing material, got me a new rumor ^^ ... guess what apparently someone said he spotted a new abaddon model in the campaign
Shut. The. Front. Door. You mean the Abaddon the Armless memes might FINALLY die? If it looks good, I might actually pick it up. I have decided to give in and start collecting character models I like from other factions. First was Eldrad from Death Masque. I like the Winged Autarch model too. I will probably pick up a Tau Crisis Suit Commander at some point. And a nice Abaddon would be a fun addition to my collection. I am not ready to pull the trigger on that Kharn model, yet.
That meme won't die because he's incompetent at his job, despite what his fans would have you believe.
Oh, don't get me wrong, the Failbaddon memes aren't going anywhere (though, who knows, maybe the Black Crusade campaign will fix that), but the Armless memes probably will.
I mentioned earlier that the October issue if wd has an ultimate guide to "redacted by the inquisition". The abaddon rumour makes me wonder if it will be the black legion.
Where this Abbadon is going to die idea came from? If somebody saw new model then new model is plastic which means unlikely to get killed off in a hurry.
Wakshaani wrote:So, if Abaddon got bumped, who'd take over as Chief Badguy of Chaos and/or Leader of the Black legion?
Abaddon isn't dying. The memes about his model being armless are going to die. They originate from his metal model having very heavy arms that refused to stay glued in place. A new plastic model likely won't have this problem.
tneva82 wrote:Where this Abbadon is going to die idea came from? If somebody saw new model then new model is plastic which means unlikely to get killed off in a hurry.
He isn't. I think the above poster misread my post about the *MEMES* about Abaddon dying as Abaddon himself dying.
Yea, I don't believe for a single second that a new abbadon will pop up soon. When they finally get to updating CSM, sure. But not a moment before then. That isn't to say it is impossible. I could very well be wrong.
pepsuber wrote: Yea, I don't believe for a single second that a new abbadon will pop up soon. When they finally get to updating CSM, sure. But not a moment before then. That isn't to say it is impossible. I could very well be wrong.
Why? This new campaign is the 13th Black Crusade. I'd say Abaddon, the architect of said Black Crusade, has a reasonable chance of showing up.
Because we are just starting the black crusade. Id expect later on toward the end he'd get personally involved in the narrative and then the model would be released.
pepsuber wrote: Yea, I don't believe for a single second that a new abbadon will pop up soon. When they finally get to updating CSM, sure. But not a moment before then. That isn't to say it is impossible. I could very well be wrong.
Well most iconic chaos character who's the one launching black crusades...would seem more appropriate to have his model here than regular codex update. Codex is codex, black crusade is Abbadon's pet project.
pepsuber wrote: Yea, I don't believe for a single second that a new abbadon will pop up soon. When they finally get to updating CSM, sure. But not a moment before then. That isn't to say it is impossible. I could very well be wrong.
Why? This new campaign is the 13th Black Crusade. I'd say Abaddon, the architect of said Black Crusade, has a reasonable chance of showing up.
It wouldn't surprise me if at this point, GW set about updating ALL of the CSM characters. I would certainly welcome an updated Abaddon, as his current model pales in comparison to his 30K model. It'd be silly not to if they're doing the 13th Black Crusade
tneva82 wrote: Where this Abbadon is going to die idea came from? If somebody saw new model then new model is plastic which means unlikely to get killed off in a hurry.
Having a model has never had any bearing on which characters are 'currently' alive.
tneva82 wrote: Where this Abbadon is going to die idea came from? If somebody saw new model then new model is plastic which means unlikely to get killed off in a hurry.
Having a model has never had any bearing on which characters are 'currently' alive.
Yes I know that but how many new models GW has released in plastic only for them to get killed off right away? Like handful models with AOS that came with sculpted square bases and that's about it...
No such worry in 40k so...
Just because they could do that doesn't mean they will when previous history points "no".
The only way we see an updated Abaddon is if he's a massive £100 kit, riding a fel-forged three-headed mecha-Horus with all sorts of strength D. I'm amazed Ahriman isn't riding a Sphinx.
Bull0 wrote: The only way we see an updated Abaddon is if he's a massive £100 kit, riding a fel-forged three-headed mecha-Horus with all sorts of strength D. I'm amazed Ahriman isn't riding a Sphinx.
Well, it's 30k Ahriman. 40k Ahriman could well be...
Joke:. New Abaddon will be the chaos version of a Centurion or Dreadknight. Abaddon inside a bigger Abaddon suit (that looks identical to him). Like the king in the last episodes of the original Voltron, he has a Mecha designed in his likeness.
In conjuction with the 13th Black Crusade campaign book and the associated plot line advancement, Abaddon will be a dual kit. Can be built as either pre-13th Black Crusade Abaddon the Despoiler or post-13th Black Crusade
Spare me if it was already known before, but there shall be a new box called "Favoured of Chaos" for about the same price as the Void Shield Generator and released at the same time.
If I understood correctly it shall contain one Daemon Prince and 15 Possessed, but don't quote me on the content as I was not paying much attention when I was told.
Bull0 wrote: The only way we see an updated Abaddon is if he's a massive £100 kit, riding a fel-forged three-headed mecha-Horus with all sorts of strength D. I'm amazed Ahriman isn't riding a Sphinx.
Strangely enough I might buy that. Go nicely with my egyptian thousand sons.
lol. If your idea of fun is to continually roll dices to get 4+, and to prance around a table to get a reroll, AOS sure is a better game. And lol agains at AOS rules being clear. There's been a ton of complaints about how unclear and confusing the rules are despite being only 4 pages long
They removed the joke rules when they updated it, but I am not sure what the first is an insult to, and yeah most of the time the complaints have been by people who haven't actually read the rules once.
I do hope to see abbadon as something better though, that model is still so very aged.
jesper77 wrote: I realy want to know how they are planning to sell this monster (VSG) ? With the current rules it's a thing to use but when the FAQ gets official it's not half as good. I bet they will make it immune to melta, haywire and grav even after the FAQ to increase sales.
Sorry, got lost in all the numerous pages that GW released as their drafts so I missed it, what exactly is it that nerfs the VSG in the FAQ?
The shield is no longer immune against grav, haywire and melta and the whole unit has to be inside the shield.
lol. If your idea of fun is to continually roll dices to get 4+, and to prance around a table to get a reroll, AOS sure is a better game. And lol agains at AOS rules being clear. There's been a ton of complaints about how unclear and confusing the rules are despite being only 4 pages long
They removed the joke rules when they updated it, but I am not sure what the first is an insult to, and yeah most of the time the complaints have been by people who haven't actually read the rules once.
I do hope to see abbadon as something better though, that model is still so very aged.
Hmm no. Just checked and they are still there on the warscrolls on their webpage, and they even put some on a fyreslayer. And yes, i guess that the one who complained about the rules being unclear didn't take the five minutes it take to read this 4 pages rag. Make sense. Anyway, this is off topic, and i have no desire to talk about aos any longer.
Yes a new abadon would be nice, but i hope they will release some new units too. So far weve seen kharn and arihman, and got a rumour about a new abadon. yet, no news on new kits
lol. If your idea of fun is to continually roll dices to get 4+, and to prance around a table to get a reroll, AOS sure is a better game. And lol agains at AOS rules being clear. There's been a ton of complaints about how unclear and confusing the rules are despite being only 4 pages long
They removed the joke rules when they updated it, but I am not sure what the first is an insult to, and yeah most of the time the complaints have been by people who haven't actually read the rules once.
I do hope to see abbadon as something better though, that model is still so very aged.
Hmm no. Just checked and they are still there on the warscrolls on their webpage, and they even put some on a fyreslayer. And yes, i guess that the one who complained about the rules being unclear didn't take the five minutes it take to read this 4 pages rag. Make sense. Anyway, this is off topic, and i have no desire to talk about aos any longer.
Yes a new abadon would be nice, but i hope they will release some new units too. So far weve seen kharn and arihman, and got a rumour about a new abadon. yet, no news on new kits
The joke rules aren't in the actual AoS rules for almost every model. The ones you mean were just the tide-over rules to use the models in AoS at the start. As far as I know the only joke rule in the actual updated AoS rules are the Fyreslayer one.
lol. If your idea of fun is to continually roll dices to get 4+, and to prance around a table to get a reroll, AOS sure is a better game. And lol agains at AOS rules being clear. There's been a ton of complaints about how unclear and confusing the rules are despite being only 4 pages long
They removed the joke rules when they updated it, but I am not sure what the first is an insult to, and yeah most of the time the complaints have been by people who haven't actually read the rules once.
I do hope to see abbadon as something better though, that model is still so very aged.
Hmm no. Just checked and they are still there on the warscrolls on their webpage, and they even put some on a fyreslayer. And yes, i guess that the one who complained about the rules being unclear didn't take the five minutes it take to read this 4 pages rag. Make sense. Anyway, this is off topic, and i have no desire to talk about aos any longer.
Yes a new abadon would be nice, but i hope they will release some new units too. So far weve seen kharn and arihman, and got a rumour about a new abadon. yet, no news on new kits
I second that. I realy wanna see a large overhaul of chaos. A lot of the kits are utterly outdated, like Plague Marines.
Hmm no. Just checked and they are still there on the warscrolls on their webpage,
The one's that show an entire army's scrolls? Those would be the legacy scrolls, typically the updated rules are now on the model's page itself, With exceptions, <Many heroes got squatted so their rules can only be found in the legacy scrolls, same with Brettonia and TK, so if you use those armies you'll still be doing For the Cup! They are more amusing then anything else.
Yeah not going to lie, while I'm sure some armies may be more entitled to army updates (SoB), CSM has had some models that look desperately outdated or just poor in general. Would love to see some new sprue's to fix them up and hopefully give them a more pleasing aesthetic once they figure out what they actually want CSM to be.
With GWs recent penchant for including two new special characters sculpts with a box full of existing models, a campaign supplement, and mini rulebook, it would not supprise me to see Abadon leading a squad of Chaos Space Marines, CSM terminators, and Hellbrute against some comparable loyalist forces in a $150 box with his face on the included mini rulebook.
Wakshaani wrote:So, if Abaddon got bumped, who'd take over as Chief Badguy of Chaos and/or Leader of the Black legion?
Abaddon isn't dying. The memes about his model being armless are going to die. They originate from his metal model having very heavy arms that refused to stay glued in place. A new plastic model likely won't have this problem.
tneva82 wrote:Where this Abbadon is going to die idea came from? If somebody saw new model then new model is plastic which means unlikely to get killed off in a hurry.
He isn't. I think the above poster misread my post about the *MEMES* about Abaddon dying as Abaddon himself dying.
Actually no, I was speculating about in-universe 'Line of succession', more or less, for Chaos. Who's Abby's Second in Command? Who might lead the Black Legion if he died or, you know, burbled for failing "for the last time"? Who commands forces loyal to the four Chaos gods that can actually leave the Eye, rather than the Primarchs who're stuck at home?
I figure Abby will be with us forever, and doubly-so if they release a new model for him, but, brainstorming.instead of one Big Bad who loses or the universe is destroyed, what about 'warlordism', where you get several smaller people striking out and doing their own thing, inflicting smaller wounds but being allowed to win, vs Abby's "Welp, guess we're done with the 40K universe. It was a good run," style of villainy.
Spinning this into pure fanfic here, I'd look for something akin to:
1 Khorne-following ragey guy
1 Tzeentch-following mystic type
1 Nurgle plaguey guy
1 Slanesshi wiggly git
(These four are classics for a reason, natch)
Then add a few more.
Clone of Horus, Junior. Younger, supposedly brilliant but not that powerful physically. Created by Fabius Bile, so he's not really trusted. Has no backing from the Chaos gods after abby "failed for the last time" and is trying to pick up support. REALLY wants to reclaim the Talon of Horus, for obvious reasons.(Can we call him 'Kebeshenuf'? I dunno.)
"I'm a Uniter, not a Divider!" ... someone (Word Bearer?) who sees the hole left and steps up, seeking to get the blessings of all four chaos gods and take over as the center of the line. Still early In his quest, obviously, but gives you an opening for stories.
"Captain Black" ... new head of the Black Legion, or, rather, the leader of the largest slice left after Abby goes down and the Chaos Gods express their displeasure. Doesn't pledge to any one god, more focuses on Marine war material and tactics instead of magic, has a large support base but few, if any, demons.
"Sneaky McInsidious" ... more of a cultist type, who favors gradually oozing over planets, converting the populace, and consuming from the inside since this whole "Drop a bunch of marines and screaming deamons from the sky" thing hasn't exactly worked out for them so well.
Prince Demonwings ... Somebody has to be all warped and yucky, right? Might wind up with Abby's demon sword, more likely that he's on a quest to reclaim it, knowing that it carries with it legitimacy of rule. (Kind of like how the clone's after the Talon)
Leaves plenty of room for Chaos players to create and cheer for their own guy to get some placement, moves the story forward (gasp!), and gives some more personality to "Da bad guys". Bonus: ou can sell 9 times as many character models.
lol. If your idea of fun is to continually roll dices to get 4+, and to prance around a table to get a reroll, AOS sure is a better game. And lol agains at AOS rules being clear. There's been a ton of complaints about how unclear and confusing the rules are despite being only 4 pages long
They removed the joke rules when they updated it, but I am not sure what the first is an insult to, and yeah most of the time the complaints have been by people who haven't actually read the rules once.
I do hope to see abbadon as something better though, that model is still so very aged.
Guess the 4+ thing is related to that AOS has not that much variety in target numbers being mostly 3+, 4+ and 5+. Often like 2 rolls one which is 4+ and one is 3+. d6 is already so limited scale one needs to use full range or it's "the same".
One problem 40k h2h chart has. It's basically "do I hit on 3+ or 4+".
For what it's worth, the formation of DP + Possessed in the BL supplement is called "The Tormented", so it looks like "Favored of Chaos" might be a new formation (or the same one made generic with a new name).
The current one is 1 Daemon Prince, 2-5 units of Possessed, Black Legion specific formation, has a rule where the Possessed have WS5/I5 and Rending by default, but if they aren't in combat you must make a Ld test and if you fail they can only move D6" for movement, but auto pass if they're within 18" of the Daemon Prince.
Hmm no. Just checked and they are still there on the warscrolls on their webpage,
The one's that show an entire army's scrolls? Those would be the legacy scrolls, typically the updated rules are now on the model's page itself, With exceptions, <Many heroes got squatted so their rules can only be found in the legacy scrolls, same with Brettonia and TK, so if you use those armies you'll still be doing For the Cup! They are more amusing then anything else.
Yeah not going to lie, while I'm sure some armies may be more entitled to army updates (SoB), CSM has had some models that look desperately outdated or just poor in general. Would love to see some new sprue's to fix them up and hopefully give them a more pleasing aesthetic once they figure out what they actually want CSM to be.
You are wrong again, since I've just checked the long beards warscroll and the mumbling rules is still there. And if you find these kind of rules amusing, lets just say that we have a very different defniniton of the word.
lol. If your idea of fun is to continually roll dices to get 4+, and to prance around a table to get a reroll, AOS sure is a better game. And lol agains at AOS rules being clear. There's been a ton of complaints about how unclear and confusing the rules are despite being only 4 pages long
They removed the joke rules when they updated it, but I am not sure what the first is an insult to, and yeah most of the time the complaints have been by people who haven't actually read the rules once.
I do hope to see abbadon as something better though, that model is still so very aged.
Guess the 4+ thing is related to that AOS has not that much variety in target numbers being mostly 3+, 4+ and 5+. Often like 2 rolls one which is 4+ and one is 3+. d6 is already so limited scale one needs to use full range or it's "the same".
One problem 40k h2h chart has. It's basically "do I hit on 3+ or 4+".
not only that, but a few options gives you the choice between hitting on a 3+ and wounding on a 4+ or hitting on a 4+ and wounding on a 3+. Which is statistically exactly the same thing, and really proves how shallow the game is.
Lol, anyway, this time I really means it, I'll stop this discussion since we are really steering off topic
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chikout wrote: If favoured of chaos is a demon prince and 15 possessed, then it is one box of possessed for free. A reasonable discount but not my favourite models.
that's a pretty gakky 25% discount. Don't most box usually gives a much better discount than this ?
Edit: Just checked and yes, most start collecting boxes are giving discount between 35% and 40%. So yeah, this box is not a really good deal. Especially considering that all models in it are rather old
Wakshaani wrote:So, if Abaddon got bumped, who'd take over as Chief Badguy of Chaos and/or Leader of the Black legion?
Abaddon isn't dying. The memes about his model being armless are going to die. They originate from his metal model having very heavy arms that refused to stay glued in place. A new plastic model likely won't have this problem.
tneva82 wrote:Where this Abbadon is going to die idea came from? If somebody saw new model then new model is plastic which means unlikely to get killed off in a hurry.
He isn't. I think the above poster misread my post about the *MEMES* about Abaddon dying as Abaddon himself dying.
Actually no, I was speculating about in-universe 'Line of succession', more or less, for Chaos. Who's Abby's Second in Command? Who might lead the Black Legion if he died or, you know, burbled for failing "for the last time"? Who commands forces loyal to the four Chaos gods that can actually leave the Eye, rather than the Primarchs who're stuck at home?
I figure Abby will be with us forever, and doubly-so if they release a new model for him, but, brainstorming.instead of one Big Bad who loses or the universe is destroyed, what about 'warlordism', where you get several smaller people striking out and doing their own thing, inflicting smaller wounds but being allowed to win, vs Abby's "Welp, guess we're done with the 40K universe. It was a good run," style of villainy.
Spinning this into pure fanfic here, I'd look for something akin to:
1 Khorne-following ragey guy
1 Tzeentch-following mystic type
1 Nurgle plaguey guy
1 Slanesshi wiggly git
(These four are classics for a reason, natch)
It's already established that Abbadon has an inner circle of general's each representing forces of one of the chaos gods. Each has their own warband and it's unlikely any would capitulate to anyone besides Horus. Unless Abaddon is killed in a way similar to how the emperor killed Horus, Abaddon would likely be brought back to life by the chaos gods.
You are wrong again, since I've just checked the long beards warscroll and the mumbling rules is still there. And if you find these kind of rules amusing, lets just say that we have a very different defniniton of the word.
I take you didn't actually read it considering it's now just one of three abilities, unless somehow the unit itself can talk since the former rule was "Old Grumblers: In your hero phase, you can complain about something in a suitably Dwarfish manner." which is now "In your hero phase, this unit will complain about something". Which means it's gone from "Do this LARP thing" and now "Pick an ability you'd like"... Somewhat noting of the irony of your previous snark about five minutes to read a few pages of rules.
not only that, but a few options gives you the choice between hitting on a 3+ and wounding on a 4+ or hitting on a 4+ and wounding on a 3+. Which is statistically exactly the same thing, and really proves how shallow the game is.
Probably due to far more abilities and things that modify the various stats, but hey if that's bothersome I understand that it's not for everyone, but yes this is offtopic.
So do we know anymore psychic abilities from the new book? Or is what's known just what's been posted so far.
Hmm no. Just checked and they are still there on the warscrolls on their webpage,
The one's that show an entire army's scrolls? Those would be the legacy scrolls, typically the updated rules are now on the model's page itself, With exceptions, <Many heroes got squatted so their rules can only be found in the legacy scrolls, same with Brettonia and TK, so if you use those armies you'll still be doing For the Cup! They are more amusing then anything else.
Yeah not going to lie, while I'm sure some armies may be more entitled to army updates (SoB), CSM has had some models that look desperately outdated or just poor in general. Would love to see some new sprue's to fix them up and hopefully give them a more pleasing aesthetic once they figure out what they actually want CSM to be.
You are wrong again, since I've just checked the long beards warscroll and the mumbling rules is still there. And if you find these kind of rules amusing, lets just say that we have a very different defniniton of the word.
lol. If your idea of fun is to continually roll dices to get 4+, and to prance around a table to get a reroll, AOS sure is a better game. And lol agains at AOS rules being clear. There's been a ton of complaints about how unclear and confusing the rules are despite being only 4 pages long
They removed the joke rules when they updated it, but I am not sure what the first is an insult to, and yeah most of the time the complaints have been by people who haven't actually read the rules once.
I do hope to see abbadon as something better though, that model is still so very aged.
Guess the 4+ thing is related to that AOS has not that much variety in target numbers being mostly 3+, 4+ and 5+. Often like 2 rolls one which is 4+ and one is 3+. d6 is already so limited scale one needs to use full range or it's "the same".
One problem 40k h2h chart has. It's basically "do I hit on 3+ or 4+".
not only that, but a few options gives you the choice between hitting on a 3+ and wounding on a 4+ or hitting on a 4+ and wounding on a 3+. Which is statistically exactly the same thing, and really proves how shallow the game is.
Lol, anyway, this time I really means it, I'll stop this discussion since we are really steering off topic
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chikout wrote: If favoured of chaos is a demon prince and 15 possessed, then it is one box of possessed for free. A reasonable discount but not my favourite models.
that's a pretty gakky 25% discount. Don't most box usually gives a much better discount than this ?
Edit: Just checked and yes, most start collecting boxes are giving discount between 35% and 40%. So yeah, this box is not a really good deal. Especially considering that all models in it are rather old
That's cos its not a start collecting box? Its just a formation. Doesn't matter about the age.
As for the aos vs 40k rules debate. Both are crap. 40k is a mess and sooner 7th ed dies the better
Hmm no. Just checked and they are still there on the warscrolls on their webpage,
The one's that show an entire army's scrolls? Those would be the legacy scrolls, typically the updated rules are now on the model's page itself, With exceptions, <Many heroes got squatted so their rules can only be found in the legacy scrolls, same with Brettonia and TK, so if you use those armies you'll still be doing For the Cup! They are more amusing then anything else.
Yeah not going to lie, while I'm sure some armies may be more entitled to army updates (SoB), CSM has had some models that look desperately outdated or just poor in general. Would love to see some new sprue's to fix them up and hopefully give them a more pleasing aesthetic once they figure out what they actually want CSM to be.
You are wrong again, since I've just checked the long beards warscroll and the mumbling rules is still there. And if you find these kind of rules amusing, lets just say that we have a very different defniniton of the word.
lol. If your idea of fun is to continually roll dices to get 4+, and to prance around a table to get a reroll, AOS sure is a better game. And lol agains at AOS rules being clear. There's been a ton of complaints about how unclear and confusing the rules are despite being only 4 pages long
They removed the joke rules when they updated it, but I am not sure what the first is an insult to, and yeah most of the time the complaints have been by people who haven't actually read the rules once.
I do hope to see abbadon as something better though, that model is still so very aged.
Guess the 4+ thing is related to that AOS has not that much variety in target numbers being mostly 3+, 4+ and 5+. Often like 2 rolls one which is 4+ and one is 3+. d6 is already so limited scale one needs to use full range or it's "the same".
One problem 40k h2h chart has. It's basically "do I hit on 3+ or 4+".
not only that, but a few options gives you the choice between hitting on a 3+ and wounding on a 4+ or hitting on a 4+ and wounding on a 3+. Which is statistically exactly the same thing, and really proves how shallow the game is.
Lol, anyway, this time I really means it, I'll stop this discussion since we are really steering off topic
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chikout wrote: If favoured of chaos is a demon prince and 15 possessed, then it is one box of possessed for free. A reasonable discount but not my favourite models.
that's a pretty gakky 25% discount. Don't most box usually gives a much better discount than this ?
Edit: Just checked and yes, most start collecting boxes are giving discount between 35% and 40%. So yeah, this box is not a really good deal. Especially considering that all models in it are rather old
That's cos its not a start collecting box? Its just a formation. Doesn't matter about the age.
As for the aos vs 40k rules debate. Both are crap. 40k is a mess and sooner 7th ed dies the better
Even the "last?" remaining non-start collecting box bundle, the Tyranid swarm, has a much better discount than this. (38% discount ).
THis box set is not terrible, but it's nothing too exciting either
Welp, looks like Chaos got their update. That should tide them over for the next 3 years.
So... when does the next SM flyer drop?
I get you are trying to be funny....
But it's really not anymore.
We haven't seen next weeks leaks, so maybe wait till then?
Sure thing, boss. We haven't seen the week after next either. Or the one after that. Should probably hold off commenting for the next year at least just to be on the safe side.
Ouch, $35 for kharn! Jeez, gw has been doing a lot of good to try to win back the ground they lost in the gaming community, but they need to be more competative on their pricing.
crazy, blood frothing madness attempt at roaring one last act of defiance into every face of Xenos and Heretic filth. Even if humanity ceases to exist, the Templars will still manage to find a way to crusade against whatever race survives.
but, at least we have 30K, so long as the 
I like advancing fluff and new rules for bad guys. Curious to see the psyker powers and the detachment.
Looking forward to something different though.
...for only $100?? 
