Dakka Wolf wrote: Does anyone know if the Drop Pod rule extends to the Lucius/Dreadnought Drop Pods? Might make Murderfang a worthwhile inclusion again.
No, it doesn't. It's not in the Imperail Armour Errata. Just because the rule might have the same name it doesn't have to have the same effect
Dakka Wolf wrote: Does anyone know if the Drop Pod rule extends to the Lucius/Dreadnought Drop Pods? Might make Murderfang a worthwhile inclusion again.
Not yet, no. It’s an omission, similar to Death Guard Legion Trait accidentally not applying to all HELBRUTE units, that an FAQ revision to I:FotAA or the SM patch document will hopefully correct.
Why do they hate Dreads in Drop Pods???
It's not like people were Drop Podding three Psyker Dreads with Heavy Flamers and Pyromancy in people's faces on the first turn...
For anybody playing ITC missions, I have been using 2 units of cyber wolves with 1 model in each squad. they are awesome for holding objective and cheap and are eligible unit for the secondary objective Engineers! I only noticed this because my opponent pointed it out. Also the thought of dog mechanics is adorable
Jimbobbyish wrote: For anybody playing ITC missions, I have been using 2 units of cyber wolves with 1 model in each squad. they are awesome for holding objective and cheap and are eligible unit for the secondary objective Engineers! I only noticed this because my opponent pointed it out. Also the thought of dog mechanics is adorable
I don't actually think that's such a good idea. Mortars are a thing and you'd hate to lose your engineer unit on turn 1.
Khornate25 wrote: Hi people ! What is our best option to deal with Knights in ypur opinion ?
We don't really have one.
Our best options are Thunderwolf Cavalry, Wulfen, Leviathan Dreads and Long Fangs but all of them have issues against Knights.
Khornate25 wrote: Hi people ! What is our best option to deal with Knights in ypur opinion ?
We don't really have one.
Our best options are Thunderwolf Cavalry, Wulfen, Leviathan Dreads and Long Fangs but all of them have issues against Knights.
If your plan is to duff it, a Phobos rune priest could hamstring it. Can’t walk away from a fight if you!re too slow to get your massive base out of 1”
Khornate25 wrote: Hi people ! What is our best option to deal with Knights in ypur opinion ?
Best way to kill knight is charge them and get past their invul save. Wulfen will eat knights. Keep your wulfen safe from over watch using rune priest powers like tempests wrath and hallucination. Follow up with the strat that makes your army -1 to hit within 6” of the priest after a successful power and your wulfen will potentially be -3 to hit. I have eaten many a knight with my wulfen.
Khornate25 wrote: Hi people ! What is our best option to deal with Knights in ypur opinion ?
We don't really have one.
Our best options are Thunderwolf Cavalry, Wulfen, Leviathan Dreads and Long Fangs but all of them have issues against Knights.
If your plan is to duff it, a Phobos rune priest could hamstring it. Can’t walk away from a fight if you!re too slow to get your massive base out of 1”
How does that power work?
I don't have the booklet on me today.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Is there a rule that says units must use all their attacks or shots?
No, why?
I don't know when, but is was clarified somewhere. Some people claimed you had to fire your Castellan Missiles T1 or in overwatch until it got officially FAQed.
So the new Invictor really looks like fun and gives us the posibility of a nice T1 charge. I wanted to include it but I dind't have any other vehicles in my list so I don't think it would have worked out.
After I had resisted long, I recently painted up the Loyal32. So I thought why not replacing the Company Commanders with Tank Commanders? They are good and would complement the Invictor.
In my list I now only have s Smash Lord, Wulfen and Long Fangs from the old marines range, which makes me a bit sad…
Smash Lord
Phobos Runepriest with Master of the Vanguard
2x5 Infiltrators
5 Intercessors
5 Wulfen
3 Agressors
Invictor /Flamer
Suppressors
Eliminators
Long Fangs, 4 Las, 1 Missile, WG w/SS
2x Tank Commanders with Las/Plasma
3 Infantry Squads
Vindicare Assassin
Against most opponents, the Invictor and Infiltrators will deploy ahead to try a T1 charge, while the Smash Lord moves up the field and the Wulfen, Aggressors and Runepriest come in T2.
Versus Orks and GSC I would probably deploy everything with the Infiltrators further back to prevent T1 charges with Da Jump etc
When I have painted up some Incursors I might take 2x5 instead of the Intercessors and an Infiltrator squad.
I'm also toying with the idea of a second Invictor. But where to get the points for it?
I'm new to the pack. Any insite to playing long fangs and wulfen well is appreciated. I know there are strats to ignore hit modifiers but I'm struggling to find a way to make Wulfen work.
I have been running 2 squads with 4 TH + SS each. I have had some success running them up the field with all my Rhinos and dreadnoughts. Either my opponent focuses on the Wulfen or my vehicles.
But for the ITC mission league i'm joining this month I am Running one Wulfen squad outflanking with 2 squads of Skyclaws with a TH in each squad. Wulfen Kill and Hunt abilities work on bloodclaw units with in 12" giving you plenty of wiggle room to get reroll charges for both skyclaw units.
kaiservonhugal wrote: I'm new to the pack. Any insite to playing long fangs and wulfen well is appreciated. I know there are strats to ignore hit modifiers but I'm struggling to find a way to make Wulfen work.
Long Fangs are great. All the benefits of Devastators but they can pack 5 heavy weapons rather than 4 and bring their own reroll to the game. I always take 1 pack.
Wulfen work best with Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield and a Wolf Priest to lead them. They really need a transport too which means either a LRC or (preferably) a Storm Wolf.
Be very careful about investing in a Wolf Priest and a transport. Mainstream chaplains (and dark apostles) have changed their Hit roll aura which requires their feet to be one the table at all times and can fail.
My Dark Apostle no longer rides with Berzerkers, and I’m not even going to bother getting a chaplain for any of my loyalists.
lindsay40k wrote: Be very careful about investing in a Wolf Priest and a transport. Mainstream chaplains (and dark apostles) have changed their Hit roll aura which requires their feet to be one the table at all times and can fail.
My Dark Apostle no longer rides with Berzerkers, and I’m not even going to bother getting a chaplain for any of my loyalists.
Wolf Priest still works like the old chaplain. First, it's in a different codex, second it uses a different data sheet.
lindsay40k wrote: Be very careful about investing in a Wolf Priest and a transport. Mainstream chaplains (and dark apostles) have changed their Hit roll aura which requires their feet to be one the table at all times and can fail.
My Dark Apostle no longer rides with Berzerkers, and I’m not even going to bother getting a chaplain for any of my loyalists.
Wolf Priest still works like the old chaplain. First, it's in a different codex, second it uses a different data sheet.
Pretty sure the warning was because that is likely to change once SW get their new rules, so it works like the old for now but that can not be counted on to remain so.
COLD CASH wrote: pretty telling 31 pages of this sub and the new sm is already at 31 pages!
Wolves got shafted so hard this edition.
All of the non-vanilla Marines got shafted. I play both Dark Angels and Space Wolves, and both are languishing at bottom tables in competititve events for the most part. That's why I've quit playing my DA in tournaments, preferring to field my Tau.
Even Blood Angels are not doing well. The Slamguinius gimmick is the only thing they have going for them, and that's just an ingredient of Imperial soup. Deathwatch are not much better either, since GW decided that they can't use both SIA and Bolter Discipline at the same time. And let's not talk about the poor, poor Grey Knights. Sooner or later GW will hopefully remember that other Marines exist.
Pretty telling that I stored 7000pts of my Wolves into the basement and I'm starting an Imperial Fist army.
Still kinda wondering why SW/DA/BA are not released as supplements like the "vanilla" chapters.. what do we really gain from having our own full codex at this point?
Ragnar69 wrote: So the new Invictor really looks like fun and gives us the posibility of a nice T1 charge. I wanted to include it but I dind't have any other vehicles in my list so I don't think it would have worked out.
After I had resisted long, I recently painted up the Loyal32. So I thought why not replacing the Company Commanders with Tank Commanders? They are good and would complement the Invictor.
In my list I now only have s Smash Lord, Wulfen and Long Fangs from the old marines range, which makes me a bit sad…
Smash Lord
Phobos Runepriest with Master of the Vanguard
2x5 Infiltrators
5 Intercessors
5 Wulfen
3 Agressors
Invictor /Flamer
Suppressors
Eliminators
Long Fangs, 4 Las, 1 Missile, WG w/SS
2x Tank Commanders with Las/Plasma
3 Infantry Squads
Vindicare Assassin
Against most opponents, the Invictor and Infiltrators will deploy ahead to try a T1 charge, while the Smash Lord moves up the field and the Wulfen, Aggressors and Runepriest come in T2.
Versus Orks and GSC I would probably deploy everything with the Infiltrators further back to prevent T1 charges with Da Jump etc
When I have painted up some Incursors I might take 2x5 instead of the Intercessors and an Infiltrator squad.
I'm also toying with the idea of a second Invictor. But where to get the points for it?
I love the invictor and definitely want to run 3 of them... but, I have pointed it out in other posts, but invictors DO NOT benefit from our faction traits as they are vehicles and warsuits and our traits only affect infantry, cavalry, and dreads.
You all will probably crucify me, but I am wanting to run a bunch of reivers using the stalker pack vigilus detachment. w/ grapnel launchers, get the reivers behind LOS blocking terrain and charge things on the other side, kicking off the 3D6 charging strat we get from stalker pack; that way the reivers can either tie up big things w/ bodies or make squishy units disappear. just some thoughts. just wish they were troops as I'd love to run a couple battalions based around them.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Is there a rule that says units must use all their attacks or shots?
No, why?
I don't know when, but is was clarified somewhere. Some people claimed you had to fire your Castellan Missiles T1 or in overwatch until it got officially FAQed.
Hostage taking.
Pa ge 179 – Choose Unit to Shoot With Change the fourth sentence to read:‘Unless otherwise noted, each model in the unit attacks with all of the ranged weapons it is armed with – if a model in the firing unit has any weapons that can only be used once per battle, you can choose whether or not the model will fire that weapon.
for the past 3 games I have been running Bjorn and 2 vendreads with a twin LC each with some success. I would hide them first turn, then walk them out firing with BS +3 re-rolling 1s. I also have a bare bones WGBL tagging along.
Now, is there a better bang for my points compared to this? For extra clarification the 3 dreads and a Unit of Long fangs with 5 ML make up the core of my army list's shooting.
Jimbobbyish wrote: for the past 3 games I have been running Bjorn and 2 vendreads with a twin LC each with some success. I would hide them first turn, then walk them out firing with BS +3 re-rolling 1s. I also have a bare bones WGBL tagging along.
Now, is there a better bang for my points compared to this? For extra clarification the 3 dreads and a Unit of Long fangs with 5 ML make up the core of my army list's shooting.
Just played pick up game, 7 dread list against 5 chaos knights.
Bjorn, murder fang, 2 wulfen dreads and 3 Ven dreads. Only bjorn had ranged attacks. Everyone else was running Blizzard shield and big axe.
The little wolfy robots crushed the big spiky robots. I do need some shooting, after I crushed his 3 big knights my dreads that were left were just chasing his chicken walkers around the table. (His list came lost on the top table at a 16 person tournament last week so it was a competitive match, played friendly)
Najia cast tempest wrath and the poped cloaked by the storm, my ven dreads poped smoke. I had an Iron priest for healing. They were staggeringly survivable.
Any one else using Blizzard shields? Anyone else using massed dreads?
Sort of?
Invictor Warsuits aren’t really Dreads but they start in charge and incinerator range or get blown away before they get a turn - either works.
Then my Wolf Guard Bikers with combi-plasma/storm shield or Storm Bolter /Storm Shield loadouts race up and join the commotion.
Still struggles with T8 if I don’t nab first turn but can take the win in most matches that I do take the play.
Dunno about the rest of you but a B.A. type upgrade will probably be enough for me to try my wolves again. My iron hands are still broke as hell, but if they actually offer us a niche and abilities/strats/relics to actually occupy that niche then ill be happy.
COLD CASH wrote: Dunno about the rest of you but a B.A. type upgrade will probably be enough for me to try my wolves again. My iron hands are still broke as hell, but if they actually offer us a niche and abilities/strats/relics to actually occupy that niche then ill be happy.
I was looking at the Blood Angles upgrades and wondering when that was coming to space wolves.
Anyone know? Is it in the works? Is there a date or is it all just speculation?
with the rate early/mid january seems to be good guess. They are coming pretty fast. 4th book is pretty much over the corner now. About time we need to hear about 5th and further books!
tneva82 wrote: with the rate early/mid january seems to be good guess. They are coming pretty fast. 4th book is pretty much over the corner now. About time we need to hear about 5th and further books!
tneva82 wrote: with the rate early/mid january seems to be good guess. They are coming pretty fast. 4th book is pretty much over the corner now. About time we need to hear about 5th and further books!
Something you’re hoping for in the 5th or 6th?
Well apart from generally wanting to know what is coming next necron's would def be my interest 1, 2 and 3 have been fairly irrelevant for me(I have small blood angel force but that would require investing more money to really utilize so pass for now), 4th has at least ork stuff(and I have small wolf force but same issue as blood angels except even bigger). Leaves necrons for my active forces. Guess IG and Imperial knights could have something but those aren't getting active use. Necrons are the ones I'm mostly waiting. Orks & Necrons are my favourite armies but orks are so god damn slow I find hard to be motivated to play. Necrons are more fun in that less time pressure.
So psychic awaking 3 is blood angles and Tyrinids. Pa 2 was phinix rising fun elfs, no fun elfs and undead elfs (no a good book IMO) What wasPA 1? Which one did I miss?
Headlss wrote: So psychic awaking 3 is blood angles and Tyrinids. Pa 2 was phinix rising fun elfs, no fun elfs and undead elfs (no a good book IMO) What wasPA 1? Which one did I miss?
And you say pa 4 is wolves and orks?
Looking at the lineup realesed at Warhammer world yesterday it looks like wolves will PA 6. But all our characters dropped significantly in CA19. Saw it on D6 evolution YouTube.
I don't have my book on hand but it looks like Wulfen Dreadnought with Axe and shield dropped about 30pts and I think a unit of wulfen dropped 25pts too! I'm also excited about 6pt fenrisian wolves, still more points then I think they should cost but it's a lot better then 8pts.
Anyone know anything about the rumors that GW screwed up the fast attack page in CA 2019 by printing the CA 2018 prices (land speeder and bikers going up)?
Headlss wrote: So psychic awaking 3 is blood angles and Tyrinids. Pa 2 was phinix rising fun elfs, no fun elfs and undead elfs (no a good book IMO) What wasPA 1? Which one did I miss?
And you say pa 4 is wolves and orks?
PA 1 was Phoenix Rising, 2 was Faith and Fury (BT and Chaos)
bananathug wrote: Anyone know anything about the rumors that GW screwed up the fast attack page in CA 2019 by printing the CA 2018 prices (land speeder and bikers going up)?
That seems to be the common opinion but no one at GW have confirmed it yet. Wait for the errata I guess. To be fair, I don't run many FA units, just 3 Cyberwolves for Reserve denials.
Niiai wrote: Did SW get the price reduction they needed? I remember how we where forgitten last time.
We got a fair range of reductions. Our Primaris stuff is all in line of course.
Arjac Rockfist down 35 points to 110
Bjorn down 30 points to 150
Canis Wolfborn down 25 points to 100
Harald Deathwolf down 53 points to 135
Krom Dragongaze down 15 points to 75
Logan Grimnar down 30 points to 140
Logan Grimnar on Stormrider down 35 points to 155
Lukas the Trickster down 30 points to 80
Murderfang down 45 points to 125
Njal Stormcaller down 23 to 115
Njal Stormcaller in Runic Terminator Armour down 28 to 125
Ragnar Blackmane down 41 points to 100
Svangir and Ulfgir down 4 points to 4
Ulrik the Slayer down 25 points to 85
Primaris Battle Leader down 5 points to 65
Primaris Rune Priest down 3 points to 90
Primaris Wolf Priest down 3 points to 77
Rune Priest down 8 points to 80, Runic Axe down 2 points to 10
Rune Priest in Terminator Armour down 2 points to 100
Rune Priest with Jump Pack down 4 points to 108
Wolf Guard Battle Leader in Terminator Armour down 21 points to 70
Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Thunderwolf down 18 points to 86
Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf down 23 to 95
Wolf Priest down 3 points to 72
Wolf Priest in Terminator Armour down 5 points to 90
Wolf Priest with Jump Pack down 7 points to 90
Blood Claws down 1 point to 12, Wolf Guard Pack Leader down 2 points to 14, Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader down 3 points to 23
Grey Hunters down 1 point to 12, Wolf Guard Pack Leader down 2 points to 14, Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader down 3 points to 23
Reivers down 2 points to 16
Elites - Wolf Guard Pack Leader up 2 points to 16
Elites - Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader up 3 points to 26
Wulfen down 5 points to 23 - Frost claws down 4 to 11, Great frost axe down 8 to 9,
Wulfen Dreadnought down 5 points to 65, Fenrisian great axe down 20 points to 30
Long Fangs down 1 point to 13, Wolf Guard Pack Leader down 2 points to 14, Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader down 3 points to 23
Fenrisian Wolf down 2 points to 6
Land Speeders up 25 points to 70...
Skyclaws up 1 point to 16
Strangely it looks like all our FA options have reverted to the original Codex prices. I think that this is actually a misprint so look out for the FA section getting FAQed at some point in the next couple of weeks.
Hmm, our Wolf Guard units now pay premium for their sergeants? And why does WGs with jump pack still cost 19 while Vanguard only cost 17? Also, TWC still sucks.
The drop for Wulfen is a surprise and not really needed but welcome anyways. At least they can compensate my Lord's hammer
No change for the Leviathan is also a surprise. I would have bet my left arm that it gets an increase because I'm currently painting one
Doesn't change much for my list.
PS: Helfrost Cannons, Frost Weapons, Tempest Hammer and Wolf Claws also got cheaper
Wolf mounts are a trap option, jump pack is way better. FLY and INFANTRY key words (and a small footprint and silhouette) give you so many advantages, especially with ruins on the field. Most GW terrain kits are ruins and they are easily scratch build so you will find them on nearly every table and often making up the largest junk if not even the majority of the terrain.
Niiai wrote: I was shure we all waited for -twc decrease.
Storm Shields for TWC went down to 5 pts so that is a 5pt saving given that SS is pretty popular on these guys.
I am not promising the Leviathan is unchanged. I think all the FW stuff is at the back in a separate section. I just did the highlights from the SW section.
Also our Frost weapons have gotten cheaper. They are just 1pt more than the corresponding power weapon which makes them pretty good for +1S.
Niiai wrote: I was shure we all waited for -twc decrease.
Storm Shields for TWC went down to 5 pts so that is a 5pt saving given that SS is pretty popular on these guys.
I am not promising the Leviathan is unchanged. I think all the FW stuff is at the back in a separate section. I just did the highlights from the SW section.
Also our Frost weapons have gotten cheaper. They are just 1pt more than the corresponding power weapon which makes them pretty good for +1S.
I have the book, no change on Leviathan, 175 base, storm cannons 50, so 303 total with flamers.
T5 is not anymore what it used to be, lasguns still wound you on 5+
New terrain rules are interesting, some terrain has a cover bubble so small pieces of it might become more common on tables which is good for melee armies but field terrain has mobility modifiers that will hurt melee armies and hurt them bad.
Space Wolves who already struggle getting into melee are going to hurt even worse.
Niiai wrote: Actually lasgunned wounded T5 on 5s back then as well.
I actually skipped 5th, but in all other editions except 8th S3 needed a 6+ vs T5 so I assume it was the same in 5th.
I want to like TWC, but seeing them fail game after game because of the Ruins rules and their large bases made it impossible. I also felt sorry for my opponent last time I faced TWC because I exploited those weakneses
Niiai wrote: I was shure we all waited for -twc decrease.
Storm Shields for TWC went down to 5 pts so that is a 5pt saving given that SS is pretty popular on these guys.
I am not promising the Leviathan is unchanged. I think all the FW stuff is at the back in a separate section. I just did the highlights from the SW section.
Also our Frost weapons have gotten cheaper. They are just 1pt more than the corresponding power weapon which makes them pretty good for +1S.
I Appreciate the drop for Thunder cav SS but I think it’s stupid that it’s 5 and not 2 like other non characters. Especially since they can’t use terrain as well like others here have mentioned or go up levels on buildings.
Yes they can. Chapter approved ruins rules say anything can go in ruins now but only infantry/swarms/beasts/or fly keyword can go to different levels of the ruins. Everything else has to stay on the bottom floor.
Plus infantry can simple move though walls. Cavalry has to move around or over them as there are no doors wide enough for their bases, costing a lot of movement
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: I Appreciate the drop for Thunder cav SS but I think it’s stupid that it’s 5 and not 2 like other non characters. Especially since they can’t use terrain as well like others here have mentioned or go up levels on buildings.
TWC have a lot of wounds though. They will get far more value out of a SS than a 1-wound WG or even a 2-wound WG in TDA. I think Wulfen get almost too much value out of 2-pt SS but I won't complain too loudly.
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: I Appreciate the drop for Thunder cav SS but I think it’s stupid that it’s 5 and not 2 like other non characters. Especially since they can’t use terrain as well like others here have mentioned or go up levels on buildings.
TWC have a lot of wounds though. They will get far more value out of a SS than a 1-wound WG or even a 2-wound WG in TDA. I think Wulfen get almost too much value out of 2-pt SS but I won't complain too loudly.
Niiai wrote: If they botched the fast attack choises, perhaps they will come in an FAQ? The thunderwolves are there. It would be nice to see a drop in points.
A bunch of us are sending emails (politely) to uk.custserv@gwplc.com to point this out. If enough of us draw attention to it, maybe we will get it fixed.
The Wulfen don’t move fast so while they make a lot of saves they’re a high priority target that don’t often make combat let alone make their points back.
I'm happy about the points drop to WGBL and Wolf lord on thunder wolves! I really do thing the FA section was mistakenly copy and pasted from the index. I cant imagine they would reduce the cost of HQ Thunder wolves and not TWC. I'm also praying for 4~5pt Fenrisian wolves!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just saw that Ragnar's two wolves Svangir and Ulfgir are now 4pts! there is hope!
Niiai wrote: If they botched the fast attack choises, perhaps they will come in an FAQ? The thunderwolves are there. It would be nice to see a drop in points.
A bunch of us are sending emails (politely) to uk.custserv@gwplc.com to point this out. If enough of us draw attention to it, maybe we will get it fixed.
I sent an email there as well. Perhaos we get it in thr faq.
Niiai wrote: If they botched the fast attack choises, perhaps they will come in an FAQ? The thunderwolves are there. It would be nice to see a drop in points.
A bunch of us are sending emails (politely) to uk.custserv@gwplc.com to point this out. If enough of us draw attention to it, maybe we will get it fixed.
I sent an email there as well. Perhaos we get it in thr faq.
Jimbobbyish wrote: I'm happy about the points drop to WGBL and Wolf lord on thunder wolves! I really do thing the FA section was mistakenly copy and pasted from the index. I cant imagine they would reduce the cost of HQ Thunder wolves and not TWC. I'm also praying for 4~5pt Fenrisian wolves!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just saw that Ragnar's two wolves Svangir and Ulfgir are now 4pts! there is hope!
Jimbobbyish wrote: I'm happy about the points drop to WGBL and Wolf lord on thunder wolves! I really do thing the FA section was mistakenly copy and pasted from the index. I cant imagine they would reduce the cost of HQ Thunder wolves and not TWC. I'm also praying for 4~5pt Fenrisian wolves!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just saw that Ragnar's two wolves Svangir and Ulfgir are now 4pts! there is hope!
I wonder if we will get thunder hammers for our Intercessor sgts next month with the next PA book. Seeing the BA sgts get them gives me hope but I understand that may upset some people. Before anyone says it I don’t think it would replace the regular marine squads solely on the fact that you can take termies, a Storm shield, and have 2 special cc weapons in an MSU squads. I just think that it adds more punch to a unit that already has a better gun then basic grey hunters and a decent number of attacks as well as more wounds
Jimbobbyish wrote: I'm happy about the points drop to WGBL and Wolf lord on thunder wolves! I really do thing the FA section was mistakenly copy and pasted from the index. I cant imagine they would reduce the cost of HQ Thunder wolves and not TWC. I'm also praying for 4~5pt Fenrisian wolves!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just saw that Ragnar's two wolves Svangir and Ulfgir are now 4pts! there is hope!
Fenrisian wolves dropped to 6pts each.
The FA section is copy pasted from the old index
FAQ is now out. Drop in points of landspeeders, skyclaws and swiftclaws, but everything else (including Thunderwolves) stay the same price. I hope as someone who really likes thunderwolves that means they'll get something nice in PA.
Jimbobbyish wrote: I'm happy about the points drop to WGBL and Wolf lord on thunder wolves! I really do thing the FA section was mistakenly copy and pasted from the index. I cant imagine they would reduce the cost of HQ Thunder wolves and not TWC. I'm also praying for 4~5pt Fenrisian wolves!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just saw that Ragnar's two wolves Svangir and Ulfgir are now 4pts! there is hope!
Fenrisian wolves dropped to 6pts each.
The FA section is copy pasted from the old index
FAQ is now out. Drop in points of landspeeders, skyclaws and swiftclaws, but everything else (including Thunderwolves) stay the same price. I hope as someone who really likes thunderwolves that means they'll get something nice in PA.
I was glad to see stuff was fixed. TWC staying the same is disappointing but their shields dropped in 5 points so that's something. I'm looking forward to Saga of the Beast especially after the stuff Dark Angels got, a lot of their stratagems benefit Terminators and Bikes more then primaris marines. We might see stratagems focusing on TWC and Fenris wolves, also Transhuman Physiology would be great of TWC and Wulfen, if we get it!
On the topic of tactics, I'll be running my TWC with SS and PF, IMO they will still be effective in combat and ill save some points on TH in case (when) they are shot off the table. I'll save the TH for Wolf Lords/WGBL on TWC.
Jimbobbyish wrote: I'm happy about the points drop to WGBL and Wolf lord on thunder wolves! I really do thing the FA section was mistakenly copy and pasted from the index. I cant imagine they would reduce the cost of HQ Thunder wolves and not TWC. I'm also praying for 4~5pt Fenrisian wolves!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just saw that Ragnar's two wolves Svangir and Ulfgir are now 4pts! there is hope!
Fenrisian wolves dropped to 6pts each.
The FA section is copy pasted from the old index
FAQ is now out. Drop in points of landspeeders, skyclaws and swiftclaws, but everything else (including Thunderwolves) stay the same price. I hope as someone who really likes thunderwolves that means they'll get something nice in PA.
I was glad to see stuff was fixed. TWC staying the same is disappointing but their shields dropped in 5 points so that's something. I'm looking forward to Saga of the Beast especially after the stuff Dark Angels got, a lot of their stratagems benefit Terminators and Bikes more then primaris marines. We might see stratagems focusing on TWC and Fenris wolves, also Transhuman Physiology would be great of TWC and Wulfen, if we get it!
On the topic of tactics, I'll be running my TWC with SS and PF, IMO they will still be effective in combat and ill save some points on TH in case (when) they are shot off the table. I'll save the TH for Wolf Lords/WGBL on TWC.
Isn't TransPhys infantry only? TWC are cavalry.
Anyway, I hope for something good for especially TWC but I'm not expecting much because GW has disappointed me too many times already this edition as far as the Wolves go. It's the only army I own that is shelved for gameplay reasons because I view it as nonfunctional even for casual games. White Scars are just literally Space Wolves 2.0 right now (which is how I run my Wolves collection at the moment).
Anyway, I hope for something good for especially TWC but I'm not expecting much because GW has disappointed me too many times already this edition as far as the Wolves go. It's the only army I own that is shelved for gameplay reasons because I view it as nonfunctional even for casual games. White Scars are just literally Space Wolves 2.0 right now (which is how I run my Wolves collection at the moment).
Shoot I didn't know it only works on infantry, at least Wulfen will get a lot out of it.
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: I wonder if we will get thunder hammers for our Intercessor sgts next month with the next PA book. Seeing the BA sgts get them gives me hope but I understand that may upset some people.
Given that every other Marine army can now take THs on the Intercessor Sergeants, it would be very disappointing if we are not able to. Hopefully we will get the "Veteran Intercessor" stratagem too. That would give give our IPL 5 TH attacks on the first round of combat hitting on 3s. I have 2 packs of Intercessors ready to build and I am just waiting to see what wargear is available post-PA6 before I get the glue out.
Jimbobbyish wrote: I'm happy about the points drop to WGBL and Wolf lord on thunder wolves! I really do thing the FA section was mistakenly copy and pasted from the index. I cant imagine they would reduce the cost of HQ Thunder wolves and not TWC. I'm also praying for 4~5pt Fenrisian wolves!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just saw that Ragnar's two wolves Svangir and Ulfgir are now 4pts! there is hope!
Fenrisian wolves dropped to 6pts each.
The FA section is copy pasted from the old index
FAQ is now out. Drop in points of landspeeders, skyclaws and swiftclaws, but everything else (including Thunderwolves) stay the same price. I hope as someone who really likes thunderwolves that means they'll get something nice in PA.
I was glad to see stuff was fixed. TWC staying the same is disappointing but their shields dropped in 5 points so that's something. I'm looking forward to Saga of the Beast especially after the stuff Dark Angels got, a lot of their stratagems benefit Terminators and Bikes more then primaris marines. We might see stratagems focusing on TWC and Fenris wolves, also Transhuman Physiology would be great of TWC and Wulfen, if we get it!
On the topic of tactics, I'll be running my TWC with SS and PF, IMO they will still be effective in combat and ill save some points on TH in case (when) they are shot off the table. I'll save the TH for Wolf Lords/WGBL on TWC.
Isn't TransPhys infantry only? TWC are cavalry.
Anyway, I hope for something good for especially TWC but I'm not expecting much because GW has disappointed me too many times already this edition as far as the Wolves go. It's the only army I own that is shelved for gameplay reasons because I view it as nonfunctional even for casual games. White Scars are just literally Space Wolves 2.0 right now (which is how I run my Wolves collection at the moment).
No, it works on all models except vehicles and servitors. So if we get it unchanged we could even use it on the small wolves I'm hoping for power fists for the primaris characters because the DAs got a model. For sergeants the fist is expensive enough, no hammer needed
I’m hoping for Primaris Wolf Guard.
A Primaris unit with that can be customised by model rather than as a unit with full access to melee weapons and the Storm Shields.
Dakka Wolf wrote: I’m hoping for Primaris Wolf Guard.
A Primaris unit with that can be customised by model rather than as a unit with full access to melee weapons and the Storm Shields.
Not gonna happen until they release a Primaris Veterans box with all the required bits for that.
Dakka Wolf wrote: I’m hoping for Primaris Wolf Guard.
A Primaris unit with that can be customised by model rather than as a unit with full access to melee weapons and the Storm Shields.
We are more likely to get access to the Veteran Intercessor stratagem. It gives us a unit that is technically Wolf Guard but without them having to give us a more flexible kit.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Stinks that we'll probably get Primaris Wulfen first.
Don’t remember where I read it but I saw a comment on a rumor site saying that a GW employee had related that wulfen size and stats were meant to be Primaris like as they knew the new edition was years in the making. Don’t know how plausible that is but I did read it. Also I feel the wulfen are totally fine as is and appreciated the points drops recently.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Stinks that we'll probably get Primaris Wulfen first.
Don’t remember where I read it but I saw a comment on a rumor site saying that a GW employee had related that wulfen size and stats were meant to be Primaris like as they knew the new edition was years in the making. Don’t know how plausible that is but I did read it. Also I feel the wulfen are totally fine as is and appreciated the points drops recently.
There was a fair discussion about it on this site and they came to the same conclusion but that was before both Angels got their unique units.
I'm wondering if I'm missing something. I know that around the end of September last year that we received a FAQ allowing us to use some of the newer Primaris stuff (Eliminators, Suppressors, etc), however I went looking today to check and it appears the FAQ is gone. I'm hoping that I'm wrong and that someone can point out what the FAQ is called or link it directly. But otherwise it appears that these units are currently illegal for us to run.
JakeSiren wrote: I'm wondering if I'm missing something. I know that around the end of September last year that we received a FAQ allowing us to use some of the newer Primaris stuff (Eliminators, Suppressors, etc), however I went looking today to check and it appears the FAQ is gone. I'm hoping that I'm wrong and that someone can point out what the FAQ is called or link it directly. But otherwise it appears that these units are currently illegal for us to run.
It was in a general SM update together witv BAs and DAs.
We still have the points in CA and the datasheets in the boxes, so they are still legal for us
From News & rumors PA so take it with a pinch of salt.
PiñaColada wrote: Apparently someone sent Valrak Ragnars stats and he does have the primaris keyword (he wrote as much over on B&C). So no big surprise there but it pretty much confirms what everyone suspected, new & improved Ragnar will be tied into this release.
EDIT: Wildweasel over on B&C transcribed this from a Valrak stream "W6, A7. Sword is Str+2 AP-4 D2 Aura that gives a 6" pile-in or consolidate if not in 3" (hard to tell exactly) Aura: Reroll non-VEHICLE charges Stanadard Captain/Jarl buff Berzerk Rage: Shoack Assault is +3A instead of 1 Belt of Russ 4++"
With ten attacks on the charge he can deal some nice damage, I wouldn't send him after anything with toughness 7 or more but everything else is game, also a 6" pile-in or consolidate aura is neat. I might take him if its true, his current stats and abilities have prevented me from taking him.
Jimbobbyish wrote: With ten attacks on the charge he can deal some nice damage, I wouldn't send him after anything with toughness 7 or more but everything else is game, also a 6" pile-in or consolidate aura is neat. I might take him if its true, his current stats and abilities have prevented me from taking him.[/size]
Pop seeking a saga to reroll wounds and even T7 targets would need to start worrying about him. With that strat, he could do about 10 damage to T7/8 on the charge (assuming no Invulnerable save etc). So he could easily solo a Dread.
Love the new Ragnar model.... not that anyone with half a brain could see it coming. However I am waiting to be dissapointed with the rules, as per for the poor wolves this edition.
Garrlor wrote: Love the new Ragnar model.... not that anyone with half a brain could see it coming. However I am waiting to be dissapointed with the rules, as per for the poor wolves this edition.
Yeah, we will be getting a special assault doctrine that works only from turn 3 onwards when our army is already blown to bits. Maybe we get something to prevent overwatch or increases charg range.
Garrlor wrote: Love the new Ragnar model.... not that anyone with half a brain could see it coming. However I am waiting to be dissapointed with the rules, as per for the poor wolves this edition.
Yeah, we will be getting a special assault doctrine that works only from turn 3 onwards when our army is already blown to bits. Maybe we get something to prevent overwatch or increases charg range.
I am already underwhelmed by the "story" aspect of it, going full pelt on all the terrible injuries Ragnar sustained. Then just a quick and by the way, he chopped of Ghaz's head.... It smacks to me of a half assed wolf piece heading our way. Orcs are going to be the big winners here, especially given how marines have been dominating elsewhere.
Garrlor wrote: Love the new Ragnar model.... not that anyone with half a brain could see it coming. However I am waiting to be dissapointed with the rules, as per for the poor wolves this edition.
Yeah, we will be getting a special assault doctrine that works only from turn 3 onwards when our army is already blown to bits. Maybe we get something to prevent overwatch or increases charg range.
I am already underwhelmed by the "story" aspect of it, going full pelt on all the terrible injuries Ragnar sustained. Then just a quick and by the way, he chopped of Ghaz's head.... It smacks to me of a half assed wolf piece heading our way. Orcs are going to be the big winners here, especially given how marines have been dominating elsewhere.
To go along with the "story" GW put out for Ragnar's conversion...(I use the term story very loosely); which one of his arms was "severed"? Did they just reattach it like an Ork Painboy would? Or did they put a bionic on? And then if so why are both arms armored?
Garrlor wrote: Love the new Ragnar model.... not that anyone with half a brain could see it coming. However I am waiting to be dissapointed with the rules, as per for the poor wolves this edition.
Yeah, we will be getting a special assault doctrine that works only from turn 3 onwards when our army is already blown to bits. Maybe we get something to prevent overwatch or increases charg range.
To be fair, Blood Angels got an assault Doctrine and are doing pretty well with it. It provides the army with extra punch in the late game so it becomes about conserving your forces early on and taking out key threats. The fact that all Marines are now forced to cycle through Doctrines helps a bit as Chapters with Devastator Doctrines now only get the benefits for 1 turn.
Honestly, I hope we also get the Thousand Sons treatment, giving each of our Great Company some special traits and relic, to rival the nine Cults of Thousand Sons.
Did some basic math. With Ragnar, he has a base of 7 attacks and gets 3 on the charge. With the space wolves assualt doctrine this is at least 1 or two attacks, and if you pop the "touch of the wild" he can get on average an extra 5 attacks, for a potential of 16 to 17 attacks on the charge. If you kill a character, then you can be refunded your cp cost too.
That axe is pretty awesome, and the beast-hunter litany isn't bad either. Combine that with the Primaris strat to convert natural 6's to hit into a wound as well, and that's a heavy hitting Intercessor squad.
Babar_babar wrote: The special doctrine is not very hot (even for an assault doctrine), the strats seem pretty good
The competitive way to run wolves is probably to discard the enhanced doctrine and take another small detachment of codex marines to get access to thunderfire cannons, scout troops, and otherwise shore up the wolves’ weaknesses.
I really hope some of the new stratagems help wolves charge out of deep strike. What the wolves really need is a way to get our hard hitters to the enemy; we’re not lacking for melee attacks and damage even before these new rules.
Though frankly, just getting doctrines, veteran intercessors, and transhuman physiology will immensely boost our offence and survivability. Transhuman physiology might even make wulfen survivable while footslogging.
Jimbobbyish wrote: I have 2 questions unrelated to PA. Do Fenris wolves get shock assult, and has anyone tried to take 60 or more of them?
Fenrisian Wolves do NOT get SA unfortunately, kind of like how Chaos Cultists, Poxwalkers, and Tzaangors (in the various Chaos books) don't get Hateful Assault.
I can't imagine any scenario where you would want to run a huge number of Fenrisian Wolves. A few seem like a potential source of "bad touching" a tank to shut down its shooting, but otherwise I think they are a bit too fragile.
Mixed feelings... We STILL didn't get the mobility we need. Hopefully TransPhys and things like that will allow us to hold out until we actually reach CC.
Anyway, maybe a Razorback Grey Hunter rush might be worthwhile. T1 keep GH in Razorbacks. Razorbacks hose down screens with AP-2 Assault Cannons. T2 disembark GH and pour AP-4 plasma into their elites and tanks. T3+ CHARGE FOR THE GLORY OF RUSS AND THE ALLFATHER. Also outflanking Aggressors might be nice. T1 they're protected from enemy fire, T2 they come in and lay down a storm of AP -1 fire and hopefully they'll be in charge distance by T3.
I am finding the idea of thunder wolf calv with that new strat interesting. I already have a large wolf force (15 thunderwolves total) that I have had success with this edition (pure melee, chain swords and storm shields) due to being hard to kill. Now this makes a single large blob very nasty and a serious threat to the enemy infantry without actually increasing their cost which I like.
Ragnar looks to be nasty as well. Hope he is priced well, him and krom could really make a nasty couple of hqs running around doing whatever they want.
The preview does mention that Space Wolves will get access to the basic Space Marine litanies. So you'll be able to get a Wolf Priest with the +2 charge and 6'' Pile-in/Consolidate. That helps a lot with deep-strike charges.
bmsattler wrote: The preview does mention that Space Wolves will get access to the basic Space Marine litanies. So you'll be able to get a Wolf Priest with the +2 charge and 6'' Pile-in/Consolidate. That helps a lot with deep-strike charges.
Actualy not as the priest needs to be on the table at the start of the round. So he can't inspire when he DSs.
bmsattler wrote: The preview does mention that Space Wolves will get access to the basic Space Marine litanies. So you'll be able to get a Wolf Priest with the +2 charge and 6'' Pile-in/Consolidate. That helps a lot with deep-strike charges.
Actualy not as the priest needs to be on the table at the start of the round. So he can't inspire when he DSs.
As with codex space marines, you put him in a Jetpack or bike and anticipate where the deepstrikes will need him to be.
Anyway, maybe a Razorback Grey Hunter rush might be worthwhile. T1 keep GH in Razorbacks. Razorbacks hose down screens with AP-2 Assault Cannons. T2 disembark GH and pour AP-4 plasma into their elites and tanks. T3+ CHARGE FOR THE GLORY OF RUSS AND THE ALLFATHER. Also outflanking Aggressors might be nice. T1 they're protected from enemy fire, T2 they come in and lay down a storm of AP -1 fire and hopefully they'll be in charge distance by T3.
A local has been running 3 battalions of 5 man primaris squads with assault bolters and power fists to some success,
The problem is that the wulfen have to deploy on a table edge. It's not possible to get to the enemies edge with your priest, so you have to come from one of the other edges. So either you take 2 priests to cover both edges or you have to choose one edge already at deployment. A smart opponent counters this.
I wonder if foot slogging the wulfen would be better. Have some incursors and invictors to deploy them for t2 charge and have some other valuable units like a leviathan to distract some more shooting.
A stormwolf might be another option, but such an expensive model that doesn't fill a mandatory slot means less CP
Pandabeer wrote:Mixed feelings... We STILL didn't get the mobility we need. Hopefully TransPhys and things like that will allow us to hold out until we actually reach CC.
Anyway, maybe a Razorback Grey Hunter rush might be worthwhile. T1 keep GH in Razorbacks. Razorbacks hose down screens with AP-2 Assault Cannons. T2 disembark GH and pour AP-4 plasma into their elites and tanks. T3+ CHARGE FOR THE GLORY OF RUSS AND THE ALLFATHER. Also outflanking Aggressors might be nice. T1 they're protected from enemy fire, T2 they come in and lay down a storm of AP -1 fire and hopefully they'll be in charge distance by T3.
Bjorn can lend re-rolls 1 to the razor back push, more so if he is the warlord. your idea takes advantage of all 3 doctrines!
Azuza001 wrote:I am finding the idea of thunder wolf calv with that new strat interesting. I already have a large wolf force (15 thunderwolves total) that I have had success with this edition (pure melee, chain swords and storm shields) due to being hard to kill. Now this makes a single large blob very nasty and a serious threat to the enemy infantry without actually increasing their cost which I like.
Ragnar looks to be nasty as well. Hope he is priced well, him and krom could really make a nasty couple of hqs running around doing whatever they want.
Do you run them in large squads or min? I like to run mine with PF/SS but with the new strat I might try to save some points and see how that plays out.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also touch of the wild can be played on our character dreads!
Anyway, maybe a Razorback Grey Hunter rush might be worthwhile. T1 keep GH in Razorbacks. Razorbacks hose down screens with AP-2 Assault Cannons. T2 disembark GH and pour AP-4 plasma into their elites and tanks. T3+ CHARGE FOR THE GLORY OF RUSS AND THE ALLFATHER. Also outflanking Aggressors might be nice. T1 they're protected from enemy fire, T2 they come in and lay down a storm of AP -1 fire and hopefully they'll be in charge distance by T3.
A local has been running 3 battalions of 5 man primaris squads with assault bolters and power fists to some success,
I have been running 3x3 squads, a wolf guard battle leader with ss and thunder hammer on wolf, wolf lord with th and ss on wolf, a squad of wolf guard in term armor with ss and storm bolters, and a squad of wulfen with th and ss. It's just a ton of bodies all at 3++ covering a large field. I plan on upgrading 1 of those squads to a 6 wolf team and combine the other 2 into another 6 wolf team.
two lascannon chaplain dreads, two priests and two battle leaders I believe, 2 redemptors or 3 invictors, mostly bare bones equip..
You think "oh i'll be fine until he reaches combat" and then you eat 135 bolter shots on turn 1 as they run in.
9 specific SW strats(pretty much all excellent tier), 2 pages of sweet relics(pretty much all the SW specific relics are again full upgrades.)
3 strats usable by TW CAV.
Move but dont count as moved for bolter discipline? i doubt this works on aggressors but ?
Ragnar 120 points yippee kiya MF!!!!
So my biggest take away is there maybe no wolves on Fenris but there is gonna be alot on the wargaming tables. (also a specific strat just for wolves woot woot)
I'm excited about all the stats my TWC can use! 1cp mortal wounds on charge, 1cp mortal wounds on 6s vs Infantry, 1cp 2 damage teeth & claws, transhuman physiology. Our Fenrisian wolves got some love too,1cp re-roll hits 3" to FRIENDS! I feel like wolf priest are a must, the SW litany really is great.
On the negative side... £105 for the box set. Someone somewhere is smoking crack.
Sorry, not paying that for 11 Marine models that I want, as I will struggle to make much back from the Orcs.
On the plus side... so many ways to play wolves. Dreadnaughts supported by a wolf priest, Skyclaws DS next to a wolf priest and then smashing into enemy lines before bounding somewhere else... I think some of the really under appreciated units in the codex will see some play time now. Thunderwolves and Fen Wolves are going to be getting on the table again I am sure.
Can't vanilla marines take as many extra relics as they want for 1 CP each? Seems like we are still stuck with 2 extras for 3 CPs max.
Some nice new strats for sure, but that means we are more CP hungry than before. So are Combat doctines good enough to abstain from the bodies and CP of the loyal 32?
I'm also not getting the box though I want Incursors. If Ragnar ends for an reasonable price in ebay I will get him, else I wait for the single release.
Ragnar69 wrote: Can't vanilla marines take as many extra relics as they want for 1 CP each? Seems like we are still stuck with 2 extras for 3 CPs max.
Yeah, same for Blood Angels and Dark Angels. :( Seems like GW were just too lazy to update this one.
We Space Wolves are CP hungry army anyway, so it maybe better to take the only real useful two relics and save the CPs for those good in game stratagems, like Transhuman Physiology, Death Grip Bite, Storm Strike (if you take the flyer), Vicious Executioner, and defintely Kene sense and Hounour the Chapter.
by not getting a new codex space wovles, dark angels and blood angels did however keep some of the older, admittingly of dubious use, strats that space marines lost, such as kill shot etc
Haven't heard anyone talking about the huge buff our Terminators got... Fury of the Champions/ First is a mild buff for most chapters because of the restrictive loadout of their Terminators. However, every single Wolf Guard Terminator model can take a combi-plasma. I'm sure I don't need to tell you more than that.
I'd be interested to see what the average results are when Ragnar uses the Touch of the Wild and Seeking a Saga strategims. Even fighting once, it looks comparable to a Grav Devastator squad using Gravitic Amplification at first glance.
bmsattler wrote: I'd be interested to see what the average results are when Ragnar uses the Touch of the Wild and Seeking a Saga strategims. Even fighting once, it looks comparable to a Grav Devastator squad using Gravitic Amplification at first glance.
He would need to make it to combat. Granted, he can reroll charges, but you still gotta get him there. No Drop Pod on him anymore.
Pandabeer wrote: Haven't heard anyone talking about the huge buff our Terminators got... Fury of the Champions/ First is a mild buff for most chapters because of the restrictive loadout of their Terminators. However, every single Wolf Guard Terminator model can take a combi-plasma. I'm sure I don't need to tell you more than that.
Throw on Keen Senses and they’ll never blow up and can also fire the bolter half of their combi weapons to clear chaff while killing tough things with plasma. They’re also Wolf Guard, so they can use Vicious Executioners to cause mortal wounds in melee. Teleport in Arjac with them and they get even more absurd.
Their main downside is that they’re slow and can’t withdraw from combat and shoot, so they’re vulnerable to being tarpitted or kites. You’ll be paying a lot of points for one, maybe two rounds of good plasma shots.
bmsattler wrote: I'd be interested to see what the average results are when Ragnar uses the Touch of the Wild and Seeking a Saga strategims. Even fighting once, it looks comparable to a Grav Devastator squad using Gravitic Amplification at first glance.
He would need to make it to combat. Granted, he can reroll charges, but you still gotta get him there. No Drop Pod on him anymore.
IMHO they really need to allow primaris to use drop pods, it's so key to the marine identity. sadly GW being GW if they give Primaris a drop pod it'll be something like "primaris dominus drop castle" a 250 point combo drop pod fortitification that no one really wants
Pandabeer wrote: Haven't heard anyone talking about the huge buff our Terminators got... Fury of the Champions/ First is a mild buff for most chapters because of the restrictive loadout of their Terminators. However, every single Wolf Guard Terminator model can take a combi-plasma. I'm sure I don't need to tell you more than that.
Throw on Keen Senses and they’ll never blow up and can also fire the bolter half of their combi weapons to clear chaff while killing tough things with plasma. They’re also Wolf Guard, so they can use Vicious Executioners to cause mortal wounds in melee. Teleport in Arjac with them and they get even more absurd.
Their main downside is that they’re slow and can’t withdraw from combat and shoot, so they’re vulnerable to being tarpitted or kites. You’ll be paying a lot of points for one, maybe two rounds of good plasma shots.
you could use the strat true grit to help clear tarpits, but that's more cp.
So ragnar is pretty nasty, but add dark angels in and use the lion and the wolf strat on him.... add +1 to ws, str, attacks, and leadership? He doesn't need the ws but str 7 in cc with all those crazy attacks.... add in additional attacks on a 4+ and fight twice strat... this guy will slaughter anything not t8 in combat! Deamon princes better run!
Azuza001 wrote: So ragnar is pretty nasty, but add dark angels in and use the lion and the wolf strat on him.... add +1 to ws, str, attacks, and leadership? He doesn't need the ws but str 7 in cc with all those crazy attacks.... add in additional attacks on a 4+ and fight twice strat... this guy will slaughter anything not t8 in combat! Deamon princes better run!
You can use the new primaris rhino transport thing if you want, cant remember its name off the top of my head. Also outflank is a thing still and works amazingly for aggressors so it should work fine for Ragnar if you wanted as well.
And if anyone is taking Ragnar they are going to be taking Impulsors, Wulfen, Razorbacks, Skyclaws, Bikers, anything with a jetpack, infiltrators to add a mid table road bump.... Lots of fast units to bring the pain as quickly as possible.
As for anything T8 in combat, I reckon he is still a massive threat even against T8 stuff. Yes its a CP sink but being able to delete a knight in a turn....
Garrlor wrote: As for anything T8 in combat, I reckon he is still a massive threat even against T8 stuff. Yes its a CP sink but being able to delete a knight in a turn....
The stratagem "Seeking a Saga" only costs 1CP but allows rerolls of all failed to-wound rolls against a target with a higher power rating. Rerolling all those wounds against T8 targets and Ragnar can solo a Knight pretty easily on the charge, even without HotC/OIDDDE. Like Smash Captains, he is pretty good anyway but against a big threat, you can pump in some CPs to turn him into a combat monster.
Unlike BAs though, the lack of Jump Pack holds him back so he is not a guided missile the way people use Slamguinius. With his aura, he needs to be either leading a charge or HI-ing to protect your midfield units.
Azuza001 wrote: You can use the new primaris rhino transport thing if you want, cant remember its name off the top of my head. Also outflank is a thing still and works amazingly for aggressors so it should work fine for Ragnar if you wanted as well.
Outflanking with a 9" non rerollable charge (one dice at most and only for 1 unit) is not a viable thing in today's standards sorry
War howl allows rerolls as Atlatl Jones pointed out. I don't understand the negativity here, all i did was point out he could be even better in cc with dark angels and the result is "it will never work dont waste your time".
I completely forgot about seeking a saga, that strat is definitely going to be useful on him.
I still think outflanking is the best option. Him showing up with a squad or two of grey hunters all packing max amount of plasma on a back line will force your opponent into being stuck between your main force and this background force. Even if you deploy them on a flank it's still an effective group that could do serious damage with ranged firepower and potentially even more hurt if they get in. If they don't then they are distracting your opponent as whatever your unit of choice moves up and hits them (wulfen, thunder wolves, whatever).
On a different note I also like the idea of incursors. They are cheap enough that losing them doesnt hurt much but once t3 hits when they fight every 6 to hit will be 3 auto hits with ap-1, not the best but serious enough that it could be a surprisingly effective shock assault.
Outrider detachment with a Phobos rune Priest and 3 units of Suppressors. Move up near to the priest and procede to stop overwatch on the units you are going to charge in turn 3. And you can use the priest to help shield them. Not a bad force multiplier for 371 points.
2x Wulfen Dreadnought [8 PL, 104pts] . Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield . . Blizzard Shield: Storm bolter
. . Great Wolf Claw: Great Wolf Claw, Storm bolter
+ Heavy Support +
Long Fangs [11 PL, 164pts] . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang Pack Leader: Chainsword
. . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader: Storm shield
. . Cyclone missile launcher and storm bolter: Cyclone missile launcher, Storm bolter
2x [Thunderwolf Cavalry [8 PL, 162pts] . Thunderwolf Cavalry: Power fist, Storm shield
. Thunderwolf Cavalry: Power fist, Storm shield
. Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader: Power fist, Storm shield
Total: 111 PL, 1CP, 1,975pts
I use to run 2x Wulfen but they could not keep up with the razorbacks. I did use to run 1 wulfen squad and 2 min skyclaws with 2 PF each, all DS, the 12" bubble the wulfen provide for bloodclaws helps when DS .
Jimbobbyish wrote: I normaly run my SW with all units on the board, save for long fangs if lack of cover is a issue. With the new stratagems I'm planning to run:
2x Wulfen Dreadnought [8 PL, 104pts] . Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield . . Blizzard Shield: Storm bolter
. . Great Wolf Claw: Great Wolf Claw, Storm bolter
+ Heavy Support +
Long Fangs [11 PL, 164pts] . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang Pack Leader: Chainsword
. . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader: Storm shield
. . Cyclone missile launcher and storm bolter: Cyclone missile launcher, Storm bolter
2x [Thunderwolf Cavalry [8 PL, 162pts] . Thunderwolf Cavalry: Power fist, Storm shield
. Thunderwolf Cavalry: Power fist, Storm shield
. Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader: Power fist, Storm shield
Total: 111 PL, 1CP, 1,975pts
I use to run 2x Wulfen but they could not keep up with the razorbacks. I did use to run 1 wulfen squad and 2 min skyclaws with 2 PF each, all DS, the 12" bubble the wulfen provide for bloodclaws helps when DS .
Why don't you have chainswords on your grey hunters? It literally has no cost, points nor in wargear you have to drop.
Jimbobbyish wrote: I normaly run my SW with all units on the board, save for long fangs if lack of cover is a issue. With the new stratagems I'm planning to run:
2x Wulfen Dreadnought [8 PL, 104pts] . Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield . . Blizzard Shield: Storm bolter
. . Great Wolf Claw: Great Wolf Claw, Storm bolter
+ Heavy Support +
Long Fangs [11 PL, 164pts] . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang Pack Leader: Chainsword
. . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader: Storm shield
. . Cyclone missile launcher and storm bolter: Cyclone missile launcher, Storm bolter
2x [Thunderwolf Cavalry [8 PL, 162pts] . Thunderwolf Cavalry: Power fist, Storm shield
. Thunderwolf Cavalry: Power fist, Storm shield
. Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader: Power fist, Storm shield
Total: 111 PL, 1CP, 1,975pts
I use to run 2x Wulfen but they could not keep up with the razorbacks. I did use to run 1 wulfen squad and 2 min skyclaws with 2 PF each, all DS, the 12" bubble the wulfen provide for bloodclaws helps when DS .
Why don't you have chainswords on your grey hunters? It literally has no cost, points nor in wargear you have to drop.
He has, in the top line.
So honestly not much did change in my lists. The relics are nice but with the 3rd costing 2 CP and Wulfen Stone and Armor of Russ being autoincludes, I won't use them much.
To get enough CP, we need 2 battalions or a brigade. When doing pure Wolves, I always have 3 elites and 3 heavy, so a brigade is cheaper as 3x1 Cyberwolf is cheaper than a 4th character. But Brigade means that everything that doesn't fill a mandatory slot is unaffordable.
Here is a list with only models I have painted. incursions and impulsor sure look interesting, but they are still on the shopping list
Spoiler:
Smash Lord, TH/SS, JP, Wulfen Stone, Sage of the Wolfkin or Hunter
Primaris Rune Priest, Armour of Russ, Stealth Adept (-1 to hit)
Wolf Priest, JP
5 Grey Hunters , chainswords, flamer (no points left for plasma )
2x5 Infiltrators
5 Intercessors, chainsword, standard bolters
5 Intercessors, chainsword, stalker bolters
5 Intercessors, power fist, auto bolters
Leviathan, 2 Storm Cannons
Eliminators, 3 snipers
Long Fangs, 5 plasma + WG with SS
I will probably decide from game to game if something outflanks. But in my recent games the board edges have been blocked well so I think I'll try to footslog my Wulfen next time and see how it goes with Transhuman Phys. and a Leviathan to distract the heavy weapons
I Have been thinking about a wolf lord in phobos armor with the relic stalker boltgun and marksman warlord trait. Is one, strength 6, ap -3, 4 damage shot rerolling hits and wounds worth it or would you rather take eliminators?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nvm I cant even justify taking it over a wulfen stone, the potential to give out extra attacks even at 3" is better then 1 shot a turn that could whiff on a invulnerable save.
Jimbobbyish wrote: I Have been thinking about a wolf lord in phobos armor with the relic stalker boltgun and marksman warlord trait. Is one, strength 6, ap -3, 4 damage shot rerolling hits and wounds worth it or would you rather take eliminators?
I would rather take a Phobos Lord with the Morkai Bolts. Giving your entire army rerolls of 1s to-Wound against a particular target is fantastic and he only needs to hit (35/36 chance) for the effect to kick in.
Jimbobbyish wrote: I Have been thinking about a wolf lord in phobos armor with the relic stalker boltgun and marksman warlord trait. Is one, strength 6, ap -3, 4 damage shot rerolling hits and wounds worth it or would you rather take eliminators?
I would rather take a Phobos Lord with the Morkai Bolts. Giving your entire army rerolls of 1s to-Wound against a particular target is fantastic and he only needs to hit (35/36 chance) for the effect to kick in.
Jimbobbyish wrote: I Have been thinking about a wolf lord in phobos armor with the relic stalker boltgun and marksman warlord trait. Is one, strength 6, ap -3, 4 damage shot rerolling hits and wounds worth it or would you rather take eliminators?
I would rather take a Phobos Lord with the Morkai Bolts. Giving your entire army rerolls of 1s to-Wound against a particular target is fantastic and he only needs to hit (35/36 chance) for the effect to kick in.
Jimbobbyish wrote: I Have been thinking about a wolf lord in phobos armor with the relic stalker boltgun and marksman warlord trait. Is one, strength 6, ap -3, 4 damage shot rerolling hits and wounds worth it or would you rather take eliminators?
I would rather take a Phobos Lord with the Morkai Bolts. Giving your entire army rerolls of 1s to-Wound against a particular target is fantastic and he only needs to hit (35/36 chance) for the effect to kick in.
Marksman Honor doesn't work on Relics.
well that's a bust
Indeed. Sometimes GW thinks they prevent broken stuff from happening, but in reality it wouldn't be broken.
Jimbobbyish wrote: I Have been thinking about a wolf lord in phobos armor with the relic stalker boltgun and marksman warlord trait. Is one, strength 6, ap -3, 4 damage shot rerolling hits and wounds worth it or would you rather take eliminators?
I would rather take a Phobos Lord with the Morkai Bolts. Giving your entire army rerolls of 1s to-Wound against a particular target is fantastic and he only needs to hit (35/36 chance) for the effect to kick in.
Marksman Honor doesn't work on Relics.
well that's a bust
Indeed. Sometimes GW thinks they prevent broken stuff from happening, but in reality it wouldn't be broken.
You don't need the relic rifle or the WLT. You just need the Morkai Bolts and the Phobos Lord's innate reroll. The Morkai bolts provide a buff to potentially the entire rest of the army all by themselves.
I'm pretty pissed that they again messed up the points:
- inconsistent costing of Wolf Guard Pack Leaders
- jump packs for Wulf Guard cost 5 instead of the usual 3
- sky claws too expensive
- 70 points for a Land Speeder? seriously?
I am annoyed they left ulrik the same, he doesnt get litanies like everyone else? Sure his rules are a bit different but he is a wolf priest, he should be treated as such. :p
Azuza001 wrote: I am annoyed they left ulrik the same, he doesnt get litanies like everyone else? Sure his rules are a bit different but he is a wolf priest, he should be treated as such. :p
I am pretty sure Ulrik will get an updated datasheet in the FAQ to include litanies. I suspect the only reason that they haven't published it already is due to the CV lockdown.
If you look at other "master" chaplains in other armies, they get to choose an additional litany and can chant 2 litanies per turn. I think most people would be happy with Ulrik being fielded with those house-rules until the proper sheet comes out. It's not like there are any tournies to worry about at the moment. :(
Azuza001 wrote: I am annoyed they left ulrik the same, he doesnt get litanies like everyone else? Sure his rules are a bit different but he is a wolf priest, he should be treated as such. :p
I am pretty sure Ulrik will get an updated datasheet in the FAQ to include litanies. I suspect the only reason that they haven't published it already is due to the CV lockdown.
If you look at other "master" chaplains in other armies, they get to choose an additional litany and can chant 2 litanies per turn. I think most people would be happy with Ulrik being fielded with those house-rules until the proper sheet comes out. It's not like there are any tournies to worry about at the moment. :(
It strikes me as incredibly lazy or neglectful that they didn't include that in the book itself or at least release an update online on the day of release.
Azuza001 wrote: I am annoyed they left ulrik the same, he doesnt get litanies like everyone else? Sure his rules are a bit different but he is a wolf priest, he should be treated as such. :p
I am pretty sure Ulrik will get an updated datasheet in the FAQ to include litanies. I suspect the only reason that they haven't published it already is due to the CV lockdown.
If you look at other "master" chaplains in other armies, they get to choose an additional litany and can chant 2 litanies per turn. I think most people would be happy with Ulrik being fielded with those house-rules until the proper sheet comes out. It's not like there are any tournies to worry about at the moment. :(
It strikes me as incredibly lazy or neglectful that they didn't include that in the book itself or at least release an update online on the day of release.
as noted, it's almost certainly a mistake the and GLOBAL PANDEMIC may be hurting their response time
Yes, in the grand scheme of things it's a silly thing to complain about. I do find it funny however that every PA book so far has had a seriously silly mistake in it (like forgetting to put point values on their units they add to the book?)
I am not to concerned I just find annoying, I was looking forward to rocking Ulrik with the new stuff but I can wait another bit of time.
Azuza001 wrote: I am annoyed they left ulrik the same, he doesnt get litanies like everyone else? Sure his rules are a bit different but he is a wolf priest, he should be treated as such. :p
I am pretty sure Ulrik will get an updated datasheet in the FAQ to include litanies. I suspect the only reason that they haven't published it already is due to the CV lockdown.
If you look at other "master" chaplains in other armies, they get to choose an additional litany and can chant 2 litanies per turn. I think most people would be happy with Ulrik being fielded with those house-rules until the proper sheet comes out. It's not like there are any tournies to worry about at the moment. :(
It strikes me as incredibly lazy or neglectful that they didn't include that in the book itself or at least release an update online on the day of release.
as noted, it's almost certainly a mistake the and GLOBAL PANDEMIC may be hurting their response time
A global pandemic isn't an excuse for incompetence that was happening without the pandemic. The pandemic isn't the cause of this, people not caring is.
Justyn wrote: I would guess his data sheet wasn't in the book because people would have complained he wasn't Primarisized with a new figure.
The other PA books have included new Datasheets for special character chaplains, even if they are not Primaris. This is to give Characters like Lemartes and Astorath access to Litanies.
Azuza001 wrote: I am annoyed they left ulrik the same, he doesnt get litanies like everyone else? Sure his rules are a bit different but he is a wolf priest, he should be treated as such. :p
I am pretty sure Ulrik will get an updated datasheet in the FAQ to include litanies. I suspect the only reason that they haven't published it already is due to the CV lockdown.
If you look at other "master" chaplains in other armies, they get to choose an additional litany and can chant 2 litanies per turn. I think most people would be happy with Ulrik being fielded with those house-rules until the proper sheet comes out. It's not like there are any tournies to worry about at the moment. :(
It strikes me as incredibly lazy or neglectful that they didn't include that in the book itself or at least release an update online on the day of release.
as noted, it's almost certainly a mistake the and GLOBAL PANDEMIC may be hurting their response time
A global pandemic isn't an excuse for incompetence that was happening without the pandemic. The pandemic isn't the cause of this, people not caring is.
.. I thought it was obvious that my comment about their response time was in answer to your comment that they didn't p[ut an online update on the day of release.
so I have been running a battalion with 3 Min grey hunter squads (plasma, combi-plasma) in 3 razorbacks with AC at its core, this has a heavy focus on shooting. It's a staple in most of my lists,
Now would it be crazy to swing it to the other extreme? Say 2 battalions with 6 Min blood claws squads in 3 rhinos. I got this Idea when I was thinking about using 2 Min wulfen (4 th/ss) squads with a max unit of TWC (6 frost swords/ss). the plan is to rush everything up the field at ounce. wulfen will lag behind but the give a 12" aura for blood claws. Is it susceptible to shooting, yes. will my opponent have enough to get through 3 multi wound units with 3++ and 3 rhinos, maybe but they sure as hell will be sweating bullets.
Azuza001 wrote: Yeah, the pandemic is delaying all fixes and stuff at this point. Nothing to worry about honestly.
yup, don't expect a FAQ for.. proably 2-3 months.
I mean it's not really a big deal TBH. with social distancing going on the only 40k you should be getting is finally convincing your dad, mom, little brother, little sister, older brother, older sister, room mate etc, to give the game a try with you.
(.. my dad lasted half a game before he decided it was "too confusing" for him)
and in that kinda enviroment, house ruling is simple eneugh.
I got 2 games in over the weekend with my wolves (advantages of having someone who plays live with you I guess lol), 1st vs imperial guard (steel legion) and 2nd vs Custodies.
1st game was a slaughter. I dont have my exact list but it basically was 2 batallions and looked like this.
Bjorn w/ twin lazy cannons
Ragnar
Wolf lord on thunderwolf with storm shield, thunder hammer, saga of the wolfkin, wolfenstone.
Wolf guard battle leader on thunderwolf with companions blade, storm shield
Iron priest w/ tempest hammer
Njal in term armor with stormcaller, jaws of worldwolf, fury of the wolf spirits
3 venerable dreads w/ axe and shield
Murderfang
Redemptor with plasma cannon and onslaught gatling
4 x 5 man grey hunter with bolt guns, bolt pistols, chain swords
2x 10 man grey hunter with 2 plasma guns, plasma pistol, wolf guard battle leader with combi plasma, all with chainswords.
Spoiler:
Vs an imperial steel legion of armageddon. Bud had 7 chimeras with flamers, a Russ with the vindicator cannon on it, 3 bassilisks, a ton of infanry (each squad had a missile launcher and a grenade launcher, think he had 7 squads?), 3 heavy weapons teams, 2 with heavy bolters and 1 with las cannons.
We were playing eternal war from 2019 chapter approved, the first mission where each objective on the table was a vp at the end of your turn.
Deployment I outflanked the 2 large grey hunter squads and ragnar.
I went first, advanced the venerable dreads, murderfang, and njal up towards the center of the table. Small hunter squads held onto backfield objectives. Bjorn and the redempter stood still and held the center of my deployment zone. Njal successfully cast stormcaller and I spent the cp for -1 to hit bubble. The ven dreads then popped smoke making them -2 to hit. Bjorn and the redeptor killed a basilisk, my grey hunters killed a few snipers but most of his troops were in chimeras so I couldn't really get any easy targets.
His turn he got some guys out of a few chimeras, moved the rest forward and fired into me with what he had. He managed to drop 1 venerable to 6 wounds left, a 2nd to 6, drop the redemptor to 8 (I used the strat for -1 dmg and the redemptor was getting -1 from njal), and killed a squad of grey hunters.
My t2 I moved forward again with dreads, repaired my redemptor up to 11 wounds, but left the outflanks still off the table. He had covered his back field pretty well. Powers njal had moved to grab an objective the hunters I lost were holding so I did jaws of the wolf and smite, ended up killing 6 guardsmen (yawn.... lol), then I unleashed bjorn and redemptor again. This time they dropped a 2nd basilisk to 6 wounds left. But as everything moved up I charged with the majority of my force. One venerable ended up in cc with a chimera, a 2nd one was fighting guardsmen, 3rd made it into cc with a sentinel, my wolf lord made it into combat with a chimera, and murderfang made it into combat with his russ (though I did lose 5 wounds to overwatch, poor murderfang).
I popped the strat from the new book for chrs to generate additional attacks on a 4+ on murderfang. It was incredible overkill, I ended up doing 24 total wounds to the russ after everything was said and done. That strat seems very overpowered for its cost, 1cp for basically a 50% increase in combat effectiveness is nuts. The others all killed their targets easily.
His t2 he tried to hold his ground, all the guardsmen were piling out of their tanks, everyone was backing off so that things could get targeted, and he managed to finish off murder fang, drop a venerable to 3 and another to 2 and drop the repulser to 7 wounds. The biggest issue he was having was I had cut his army in half and the guns he wanted to use couldn't focus fire down a single target.
My turn 3 I was behind by 2vp. Ragnar and friends finally showed up. I had to separate the 2 10 man squads because there wasn't enough room in his back field to get them all, so 10 were with ragnar in the back and 10 deployed on the other side near sike chimeras heading for njal. They killed the the damaged basilisk with overcharged plasma, then the other squad killed a chimera with overcharged plasma but 3 of my guns over heated in that squad so lol.... bjorn and redemptor dropped the final basilisk to 1 wound, charges happened with the squad with ragnar making an 11" charge thanks to his reroll into a company commander, my wolf lord made it in with his warlord, and each ven dread was in combat with guard squads. Even the wolf guard battle leader got in vs a sentinel.
I popped the strat on the wolf lord and he killed his company commander warlord but dead (again massive overkill). The 10 man utterly ruined the commanders day. Dreads were wiping squads out left and right, and we called it because at this point he was down to about 35% of his army and had lost every anti tank gun he had except for that 1 wound basilisk which wasn't going to be around much longer.
What I learned from that game was that Strat seems really overpowering. I cant see them leaving that at 1cp. Unfortunately I didnt get a chance in that game to really see how some of the new stuff worked.
Spoiler:
Game 2 vs custodies is harder to explain. We were playing mission 4 from chapter approved, the new beachhead mission.
He was playing pure custodies. I dont know custodies models very well off the top of my head but this is what I remember.
He had a land raider, 3 shield captains on bikes, 2 regular shield captains, 4 squads of 3 infanty, a banner bearer with -1 to hit and a relic that gave them the on a 4+ shoot / swing ability, and a squad of deep striking terms.
My list was very different, I went with a deployment phase reactionary force.
Wolf lord on thunderwolf with storm shield and thunder hammer. Relic wolfstone and wolfkin saga.
Wolf guard battle leader with companions blade and storm shield.
Ragnar
Krom
5 wolf guard terms with storm shields and storm bolters.
2x 10 man grey hunters, max plasma again.
4x 5 man grey hunters, bolt gun and chainswords
2x bloodclaws, srg had powerfists
2 x 3 man thunderwolf cav with storm shields and chainswords
2 x 6 man longfang packs, each with a battle leader with storm shield and 4 missile launchers
2 drop pods.
The idea behind my list was I could try and dictate what was going on bases on what my opponent brought and who was going first. I deployed 2and so I ended up putting 1 longfang squad in 1 drop pod, the 2 blood claw squads in the 2nd pod, krom outflanked with the 2 big plasma teams, the thunderwolves set up as close to the 2 center objectives as they could, and ragnar, the terms, and the wolford / wolf guard battle leader set up behind them.
I am not going to go into as much detail on this game, but things I found out....
10 man grey hunters in combat with custodies regular guys can do serious dmg in cc at the assault doctrine.
Hell just getting to the assault doctrine is so good with wolves now. Exploding 6's is really good.
Ragnar made it into combat this game on t2. So I popped the strat for more attacks, swung vs a dawn eagle bike at full health, and killed it dead. Unfortunately this left ragnar out in the middle of the field where his chr special rule couldn't help him and he got blown away directly after that lol.
The free cp when you kill a chr is soooooo nice. I found I was making sure that there was always a chr around for me to charge.
The wolf lord on thunderwolf with doctines and the new strat is so good it's crazy. 7 attacks with the hammer hitting on 2's rolling 1's at str 8 ap-4 flat 3 with 4+ giving an additional attack and 6's giving 2? He was a one man wrecking crew, got knocked down to 2 wounds but he killed so many custodians it was epic.
Even normal thunderwolf calv becomes quite good once you hit the assault doctrine. And being able to do 2dmg with the wolves if needed is quite helpful.
So those are what I have learned so far. I am really digging the new stuff, it doesnt put us in top competitive form but it does give us enough tricks and toys that making a list with everything we have now is hard to choose.....
Ragnar69 wrote: We have a new book and lots of time due to Corona lockdown and still hardly any new posts here?
I think this clearly shows that the book slightly improved our current tactics but didn't really create new ones.
We have a lot of time to build and paint yes Playing games? Not so much because most people don't want to meet IRL just to play a game right now. So unless you have a housemate/partner/child to play with most people won't be able to play for a while.
Ragnar69 wrote: We have a new book and lots of time due to Corona lockdown and still hardly any new posts here?
I think this clearly shows that the book slightly improved our current tactics but didn't really create new ones.
We have a lot of time to build and paint yes Playing games? Not so much because most people don't want to meet IRL just to play a game right now. So unless you have a housemate/partner/child to play with most people won't be able to play for a while.
You can play online with things like tabletop sim or follow GW's advice and use webcams.
There are only a few new things the book really gives us uniquely to us that make much of a difference vs normal marines. It doesnt make us as strong as ravenguard or iron hands but we can be a contender now. The big issues are still the same ones, wolves dont do alpha strikes well, they are firmly in the turn 2/3 assault group.
Having said that man oh man do those doctines help. With the turn two outflank of grey hunters in mass, plasma at ap-4 and bolters at ap-1 double tap, then getting into combat with so many attacks in the assault doctrine with ap-1 and free chainswords.... man oh man can our basic infantry hurt even in small numbers.
I don’t have any thunderwolf cavalry currently but I’m tempted to buy a couple boxes now. With storm shields and chainswords they’re only a few more points than TH/SS wulfen, but can potentiallly put out a ton of mortal wounds using crushing assault and vicious executioners. Plus they seem like they’d be a tough distraction carnifex.
Has anyone had a chance to use them since the new rules dropped?
Haven’t used them, but am also intrigued about them, current thought is that they’ve certainly become better and aside from the upper 10% of competitive lists something to look at most times you build a list. At the higher level they’re still a train wreck due to the limitations of the Calvary keyword/ no flying
Atlatl Jones wrote: I don’t have any thunderwolf cavalry currently but I’m tempted to buy a couple boxes now. With storm shields and chainswords they’re only a few more points than TH/SS wulfen, but can potentiallly put out a ton of mortal wounds using crushing assault and vicious executioners. Plus they seem like they’d be a tough distraction carnifex.
Has anyone had a chance to use them since the new rules dropped?
I guess it depends on the terrain. My meta with lots of ruins, mostly multi-level, really hurt everything without the infantry or fly key words. Ruins usually have only on one or two sides openings large enough for the TWC to enter, the walls are too high to move over and they can't go upstairs. This makes ruins basically impassable for TWC.
I used 2 squads of 3 vs custodies. I only got 2 into cc with a 3 man custodies guard squad (2 spears and 1 storm shield and sword vs my chainsword / storm shield wolves). Since I was charging I got to swing first and thanks to the shear number of attacks I killed 2 of them then survived the brunt of their attack back. Ended up killing them the next turn once I hit turn 3 assault doctrine. The mortal wounds is what caused enough dmg to kill them so yeah, they are a threat if you have the cp. After turn 3 though I only had 1cp a turn (thanks to the free cp for killing a chr in cc) and that was spent on the generate free hits on a 4+ strat for my wolf lord.
I think they need to be a single large group of 6 now to really make use of the strats.
Just a heads up Battlescribe has a issue with the blizzard shield on the dreadnoughts, They show up as 30 points. also the Wolf priest has a issue when picking litanies. The mountain breaker helm does not show up as a option for relics.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think it'll be fixed soon
Automatically Appended Next Post: On a separate note, How many dedicated ranged units do you guys normally take? I tend to stick with Bjorn with TLLC, Long Fangs with MLs, then 2 Ven dreads with TLLC.
Jimbobbyish wrote: On a separate note, How many dedicated ranged units do you guys normally take? I tend to stick with Bjorn with TLLC, Long Fangs with MLs, then 2 Ven dreads with TLLC.
Depends on the points. At 1500 I normally take 1 unit of Long Fangs, 1 of Hellblasters, Bjorn and 2 TLAC Razorbacks. That is less armour busting than you bring but my Grey Hunters each pack a melta gun and combi melta and of course there are a sprinkling of power fists in there too. It seems to work well so far.
Niiai wrote: Do somebody run meltagun in 8th edition?
Apparently Karhedron
I have plasma Long Fangs, a Leviathan, Suppressors and eliminators in my current 2k list but hadn't a chance to play it yet.
Dedicated Melee are the characters and Wulfen.
Everything else is "melee at opportunity", i.e. Invictor, Agressors, all troops
Niiai wrote: Do somebody run meltagun in 8th edition?
Apparently Karhedron
Yup, just a handful. They are not my primary anti-tank but I run mechanised wolves which generally means fewer bodies meaning I like my squads to be able to threaten a variety of targets. Not sure it is meta-busting but i have a pretty good track record with the list.
I like the idea of meltas but can't ever justify them in my lists, plasma is just better in 95% of the situations it seems. If melta was the same cost as plasma that would be all I would need to justify going that direction but at its current cost, not so much.
Yeah, being more expensive than plasma is insulting. If you shoot 3 meltas at a Leman Russ, 1 misses, one fails to wound und the last does around 4 damage. 3 over-charged rapid firing plasmas do nearly the same, have longer range and are more versatile.
Melters and flamers really are wasted points in 8th.
Let's talk Wolf Priests instead. Do you take one and if yes, what loadout and what litany? And how to keep close to your melee units.
Lets assume you want to buff your melee outflankers/DSs. So he has to be on the board at the start of T2 and be pretty close to the enemy. This is only possible if you have other forward units protecting him, i.e. Invictors, Incursors, Infiltrators, Impulsors with Intercessors, Bikers, Jump Units,...
The problem with outflanking is that he never reaches the enemies table edge in T2, so he has to chose on short table edge to support at deployment as he is probably not fast enough to reach either if he starts in the middle. And even if he is, he has to gun there at top speed T1, making it obvious for the enemy what is hapening. So maybe support DS termis or Wolf Guard with jump packs instead? Or have him advance with foot-slogging wulfen that try to get close with transhuman physiology?
1) on bike
Legends only, no litanies and costs 135 points. So not really an option though that 20" movement with turbo-boost would be great
2) Primaris Wolf Priest
I could see one in an Impulsor with veteran Intercessors
3) with jump pack
probably my favorite. Infantry and Fly keywords are great
I always go with jump packs because if you have him in a vehicle turn 1, unless you disembark that same turn, your going have to wait till Turn 3 to use litanies
Agreed, Jump Packs are the way to go. With a 12" move (and D6" Advance if needed) you can usually get them in position for anything coming in T2.
I am trying to work out if there is any mileage in combining them with Blood Claws in Pods for a T1 charge. Only problem is no rerolls, I would prefer having Wulfen/Ragnar around to power this.
Or is it simply easier and cheaper to use Incursors if you want some cheap and choppy Troops to distract your opponent on T1.
Its true you can set up a t1 assault with wolf priest / ragnar / blood claws by using a jump pack on the priest, drop pods for the blood claws (or use sky claws), and an impulsor. It requires some serious "setup of proper units in proper places " but is doable. I don't think its worth the setup when you can instead setup a very strong t2 charge much easier and with better results.
Karhedron wrote: Agreed, Jump Packs are the way to go. With a 12" move (and D6" Advance if needed) you can usually get them in position for anything coming in T2.
I am trying to work out if there is any mileage in combining them with Blood Claws in Pods for a T1 charge. Only problem is no rerolls, I would prefer having Wulfen/Ragnar around to power this.
Or is it simply easier and cheaper to use Incursors if you want some cheap and choppy Troops to distract your opponent on T1.
Azuza001 wrote: Its true you can set up a t1 assault with wolf priest / ragnar / blood claws by using a jump pack on the priest, drop pods for the blood claws (or use sky claws), and an impulsor. It requires some serious "setup of proper units in proper places " but is doable. I don't think its worth the setup when you can instead setup a very strong t2 charge much easier and with better results.
I have used 4x Min skyclaw squads with 2x PFDS with wulfen providing a 12" reroll charge (it worked 50% of the time). Now with a wolf priest 2+ charge aura could really make a difference, you can give him Saga of Majesty for 9" aura on litanies.
Automatically Appended Next Post: when the Phobos +1 charge warlord trait could still effect non-Phobos units, the 4 squads DS worked more often. I still had to have the Phobos libby on the table and using the psychic power to move twice to get him into place, but if it could work then it can especially work now with a Chaplin moving 12" and 9" aura.
To me something I have always wanted to try but won't in my local meta (at least not vs friends, tournaments would be different) is the phobos / rune priest combo for killing chrs. Phobos casts curse on a chr slowing it down then rune casts jaws of the world wolf... thats a lot of mortal wounds to an enemy chr (or squad) within 18"....
Back on the wolf priest, him doing +2 to charge makes him quite good. I hate giving him a jump pack (wolves like their paws on the ground! Bonus points if you remember that rule!) But its really the best option. Give him a power fist and unleash him on the enemy.
Jimbobbyish wrote: On a separate note, How many dedicated ranged units do you guys normally take? I tend to stick with Bjorn with TLLC, Long Fangs with MLs, then 2 Ven dreads with TLLC.
I'm making some terminators with combi plasmas to deep strike with Fury of the Champions, but I haven't had a chance to try them out yet. On the top of my "to build" pile is a Stormfang to try out with the new Storm Strike and Vengeance of the Machine Spirit stratagems.
Otherwise, I have TLC Bjorn, PC Long Fangs, and Eliminators, plus lots of Intercessors who have mixed roles.
MurderFang is a viable option for Hero of the chapter, he only counts as a warlord for the warlord traits and he doesn't have a preset trait. Give him Saga of the hunter and he can advance and charge!
I've been watching a lot of battle reports recently of Space Wolves versus whatever, I came across this guy's videos where he uses thunderwolf Cavalry, wulfen, and drop poding bloodclaws to great effect. He also uses a chaplain to provide 2 + charge range to deep striking units, Rengar and his + 3 consolidation, and really focuses on thunderwolf Cavalry with vicious Executioners, crushing assault, and death grip bite. He is also the guy that pointed out the MurderFang start.
lindsay40k wrote: Is there anything that a Wolf Priest can do to make the +2” charge more reliable? 1/9 chance of failing with a reroll is a wobbly moving part
combo him with wulfen, wolf priest provides +2 charge, wulfen can re-roll charges. I use them both to run up the field and provide their buffs to 4 min skyclaws squads with 2 pf ds to clear screens. Wulfen's rerolls and extra attack buffs bloodclaws at 12", and give the wulf priest Saga of Majesty
lindsay40k wrote: Is there anything that a Wolf Priest can do to make the +2” charge more reliable? 1/9 chance of failing with a reroll is a wobbly moving part
combo him with wulfen, wolf priest provides +2 charge, wulfen can re-roll charges. I use them both to run up the field and provide their buffs to 4 min skyclaws squads with 2 pf ds to clear screens. Wulfen's rerolls and extra attack buffs bloodclaws at 12", and give the wulf priest Saga of Majesty
Think he refers to the priest rolling for power. 3+ to work, with CP 8/9. He doesn't like the 1/9 chance of failing. So he's looking for ways to get priest even more reliable. Only way I can think of is taking 2 if you can try same with both(don't know rules well enough can you try to recite what failed before. I know same can't be active at least more than once but is it like psychic casting?)
Jimbobbyish wrote: MurderFang is a viable option for Hero of the chapter, he only counts as a warlord for the warlord traits and he doesn't have a preset trait. Give him Saga of the hunter and he can advance and charge!
Not sure if that is legal. Murderfang's special rules state that he cannot be your Warlord. "Hero of the Chapter" states that the model is "regarded as your Warlord for the purposes of that Warlord Trait". It does not say that he just gets a WL trait, it states that the model is considered a WL for the purpose of the trait which conflicts with Murderfang's special rules.
I am not certain but I would say that MF's rules mean he is not a valid candidate for HotC.
lindsay40k wrote: Is there anything that a Wolf Priest can do to make the +2” charge more reliable? 1/9 chance of failing with a reroll is a wobbly moving part
combo him with wulfen, wolf priest provides +2 charge, wulfen can re-roll charges. I use them both to run up the field and provide their buffs to 4 min skyclaws squads with 2 pf ds to clear screens. Wulfen's rerolls and extra attack buffs bloodclaws at 12", and give the wulf priest Saga of Majesty
Think he refers to the priest rolling for power. 3+ to work, with CP 8/9. He doesn't like the 1/9 chance of failing. So he's looking for ways to get priest even more reliable. Only way I can think of is taking 2 if you can try same with both(don't know rules well enough can you try to recite what failed before. I know same can't be active at least more than once but is it like psychic casting?)
You can recite it only one per turn, regardless if it was inspiring or not
Yeah, it’s the reliability. Multiple overlapping measures is an answer - get the rerolls and the attempted boost, hopefully it’ll be enough
I’m coming into this as a Word Bearer whose Dark Apostles are 97% reliable and have a Space Wolf friend looking for combos
Two units with lots of rerolls isn’t terrible IME, we have similar stuff with Warp Talons and you can usually get someone in there, if the charging unit are cheaper troops then it’s definitely a viable gimmick at the very least
Jimbobbyish wrote: MurderFang is a viable option for Hero of the chapter, he only counts as a warlord for the warlord traits and he doesn't have a preset trait. Give him Saga of the hunter and he can advance and charge!
Not sure if that is legal. Murderfang's special rules state that he cannot be your Warlord. "Hero of the Chapter" states that the model is "regarded as your Warlord for the purposes of that Warlord Trait". It does not say that he just gets a WL trait, it states that the model is considered a WL for the purpose of the trait which conflicts with Murderfang's special rules.
I am not certain but I would say that MF's rules mean he is not a valid candidate for HotC.
I think it's legal. "regarded" =/= "is" and in the stratagem it does not state that the target becomes a warlord, only to regard it as such. Another way to say it is MurderFang does not become a warlord, you just pretend he is only for the trait.
Murderfangs rule was written back when the only way to get a warlord trait was to make him your warlord. While raw you may have an argument to make its pretty obvious that its intent is Murderfang can't get a trait. If this shutdown wasn't an issue there probably would already be a faq about it. Do what you will but I won't run murder that way, I prefer friends to that.
Azuza001 wrote: Murderfangs rule was written back when the only way to get a warlord trait was to make him your warlord. While raw you may have an argument to make its pretty obvious that its intent is Murderfang can't get a trait. If this shutdown wasn't an issue there probably would already be a faq about it. Do what you will but I won't run murder that way, I prefer friends to that.
It only stops you from making him your warlord, not from giving him a warlord trait. It's the same for the strategem feild commander. You pick a character who isn't your warlord and give the a warlord trait. And only for the warlord trait do you regard the character as your warlord. In the case for MurderFang he's fine because he still isn't your warlord, he just has a warlord trait.
Both field commander and hero of the chapter do not make a 2nd warlord, because you can only have 1. It just gives a non-warlord character a warlord trait.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm ganna make a post on you make the call I'm curious if there are similar situations in other armies!
I have used 4x Min skyclaw squads with 2x PFDS with wulfen providing a 12" reroll charge (it worked 50% of the time). Now with a wolf priest 2+ charge aura could really make a difference, you can give him Saga of Majesty for 9" aura on litanies.
How about switching one pack of BCs for a WG pack leader, WG battle leader with jump pack and wolf lord with jump pack. Maybe using the Vigilius Stalker detachment?
If you place your pods cleverly they might give the chars some protection from shooting and with the fight again stratagem we actually might kill something worthy of a saga T1
edit: ahh, pods can't take Jumpers anymore. Might still be worth a look
what's also nice, you recite at the start of the turn. If it fails, simply stay back and keep your pods in orbit
Azuza001 wrote: Murderfangs rule was written back when the only way to get a warlord trait was to make him your warlord. While raw you may have an argument to make its pretty obvious that its intent is Murderfang can't get a trait. If this shutdown wasn't an issue there probably would already be a faq about it. Do what you will but I won't run murder that way, I prefer friends to that.
It only stops you from making him your warlord, not from giving him a warlord trait. It's the same for the strategem feild commander. You pick a character who isn't your warlord and give the a warlord trait. And only for the warlord trait do you regard the character as your warlord. In the case for MurderFang he's fine because he still isn't your warlord, he just has a warlord trait.
Both field commander and hero of the chapter do not make a 2nd warlord, because you can only have 1. It just gives a non-warlord character a warlord trait.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm ganna make a post on you make the call I'm curious if there are similar situations in other armies!
Again while all this may be true you can't use the field commander strat to give murderfang the warlord trait because he can't be made a Stalker Pack character. This would be the only instance I can think of where this comes up, off the top of my head I can't think of another chr that has the "you can't be the warlord" rule. To be fair like I said raw i am pretty sure your safe, but rai with friends I wouldn't do this because it seems pretty clear they didn't want murderfang getting a warlord trait.
On a similar note, I have been thinking about taking a outrider detachment with a WGBL with JPSSPF and 3 min squads of skyclaws with WG and 2 PF. The plan has been mentioned, Wolf priest and Wulfen provide buff for charging to the skyclaws. now is it worth spending a cp for the specialist detachment, and another for field commander? or save the cp?
Jimbobbyish wrote: On a similar note, I have been thinking about taking a outrider detachment with a WGBL with JPSSPF and 3 min squads of skyclaws with WG and 2 PF. The plan has been mentioned, Wolf priest and Wulfen provide buff for charging to the skyclaws. now is it worth spending a cp for the specialist detachment, and another for field commander? or save the cp?
I can see where you’re coming from, this could deliver, what, forty S8 attacks? If you’re going to put this quantity of eggs in a basket, it might be worth giving the WGBL a Thunder Hammer. The PF’s slightly swingy output has consequences for the rest of the detachment.
lindsay40k wrote: I can see where you’re coming from, this could deliver, what, forty S8 attacks? If you’re going to put this quantity of eggs in a basket, it might be worth giving the WGBL a Thunder Hammer. The PF’s slightly swingy output has consequences for the rest of the detachment.
This is a tricky one. THs now cost far more on Characters than power fists (more than 4 times as much) for only a 50% increase in average wounds output.
I am leaning towards fist on my Characters while I put the Hammers on units like Terminators, Wulfen, TWC and Veteran Intercessors. Giving the WGBL the Wulfen Stone might be a good idea (unless you plan to keep the whole lot near the Wulfen in which case Armour of Russ might be better).
punisher357 wrote: Quick question...I'm not a Space Wolves player so I'm unfamiliar.
Do Space Wolves have a shooting weapon/attack that generates extra hits on a to hit roll of 6+? Does it have ap? Is it strength 4? Str 5?
We have:
Savage Fury: While the Assault Doctrine is active, an unmodified roll of 6 to hit in melee will grant an additional hit.
Touch of the Wild (1 CP): In the Fight phase, pick a character. He now gets an extra attack on a 4+ to hit
Vicious Executioners (1 CP): One WOLF GUARD unit during the fight phase gets to deal a MW on top of any normal damage when they roll a natural 6 to hit.
Max Wolf Guard with JP, SS and chain swords, and Max TWC with SS and chain swords can dish out a good deal of MW with Vicious Executioners, Hammer of wrath, and Crushing Assault!
Sprinkle in some PF or TH in each squad and drop Arjack near by to really bring the pain.
So I think Space Wolves have the distinction of being the first Space Marine army with a unit made 100% redundant by a primaris unit. unless I've missed something these new assault intercessors are going to be straight up better in everyway over blood claws
BrianDavion wrote: So I think Space Wolves have the distinction of being the first Space Marine army with a unit made 100% redundant by a primaris unit. unless I've missed something these new assault intercessors are going to be straight up better in everyway
GH still have a place - being able to move in with 2x Plas and a combi-plas plus power fists. If we move away from Plasma to Melta, they are still effective and fulfil a good role especially if backed up with a Rhino.
The Assualt primaris will be amazing for SW though, if they can ride in Impulsors then we will really bring the pain.
Editing to add- I just saw your post in the other thread. Bloodclaws may be redundant now, but they may also get a drop in points in the new edition which will keep them relevent.
Yeah I dont see gh being replaced by any of that. We can still take 2 plasma, a combi plasma, and a plasma pistol in a 10 man squad. We still have chainswords, bolters, and bolt pistols on our basic guys. We still can have more special ccw than a regular intercessor squad and have more range firepower than a cc intercessor squad.
Until we know more there is still a lot of unknowns but I wouldn't be jumping on the "everyones been replaced by primaris" just yet.
Azuza001 wrote: Yeah I dont see gh being replaced by any of that. We can still take 2 plasma, a combi plasma, and a plasma pistol in a 10 man squad. We still have chainswords, bolters, and bolt pistols on our basic guys. We still can have more special ccw than a regular intercessor squad and have more range firepower than a cc intercessor squad.
Until we know more there is still a lot of unknowns but I wouldn't be jumping on the "everyones been replaced by primaris" just yet.
Oh I know mate, however when I saw the assault Intercessors I immediately thought of 2 Impulsors full with Ragnar and a Primaris WGBL rocking up to enemy lines. A pack of GH in a Rhino packing as much plas as possible would be a nice complement .
BCs in pods still can go for a T1 charge with +2 (Wolf Priest) and re-roll (Wulfen).
I'm not sure if assault bolter intercessors aren't the better loadout for Impulsors. They can at least clean some bubble wraps with shooting after disembarking T1.
I bet the shield guys will have some bodyguard rules. I would love to build them with WUlfen shields, but they are impossbie to get hold of on bits sites. Does anyone know any 3rd party alternatives? Kromlech has big shields but they feature the Thor rune instead of wolfy images so I'm not totaly sold on those.
A query. Do we think Morkais Teeth Bolts affects all wound rolls on a marked model or just one?. It says ‘a wound roll’ but the inference is that it is per attack so effects all dice?
I'm a bit worried that the shield guys seem to have an Iron Halo. This implies changes to storm shields, I.e. only working in melee. As kings of the storm shields, this would hurt us like nobody else. But it would also explain why they made them so cheap.
To be honest I remember when storm shields only worked in cc. When they made them work outside of cc I was amazed. It wouldn't surprise me to see it shift back to cc only again.
Yeah, but Why did they extent it to shooting? Because they never made it into combat. And they seem to be aware of that if those shield dudes get iron halos. But what about wulfen or TWC? They are already hard to deliver right now and might become unusable without invuln VS shooting
If they removed the ranged save of SS, we would not only be the slowest assault army, but also the squishiest. It’s not like storm shields even do that much versus the weight of shots available in the game but seeing as GW doesn’t want to supply our elite CC units with proper delivery, SS are about the only gimmick we have.
Still waiting for any of the 9th leaks to explain why our PA was so uninspiring and frankly extremely low power.
Ragnar69 wrote: Yeah, but Why did they extent it to shooting? Because they never made it into combat. And they seem to be aware of that if those shield dudes get iron halos. But what about wulfen or TWC? They are already hard to deliver right now and might become unusable without invuln VS shooting
it could be the iron halos are just cosmetic. or it could represent that there is another build option, such as "1 handed sword and sheild or two handed sword" etc.
Attack bikes probably not for us as we only have BS4. It looks promising for the rest but it will depend on the points I assume.
Personally I still prefer Suppressors over Speeders for their suppression rule even if they still have the -1
Ugh, I hate that Swift Claws, Sky Claws, and Blood Claws are BS 4+. GW changed regular SM scouts to BS 3+, but it appears our neophytes didn't get the memo.
Niiai wrote: Lanspeeders, landraiders, attack bikes and dreadnoughts are back in 9th edition?
At least Land Raiders. Wonder what category Flamestorm Cannons will be though. Hope that flamer weapons will be special-cased to work in Engagement Range even though they're technically Blast weapons. That would make Land Raider Redeemers Emperor-damned awesome.
Also Razorbacks. Now you'll be able to charge into the fray after dropping your cargo with them like a Rhino would AND keep shooting your twin Assault cannon.
I feel the Wolves have gotten a ton of new options with the new rules and the new models from the Indomitus box (ASSAULT PRIMARIS! Finally some worthy units to sent along with Ragnar in an Impulsor).
I feel wolves will benefit a great deal from the primarisnon bikes with chainswords. Most of our bikes are WS4, if that drops to WS3 a lot can happen. And a good charge range on them as well probably. Combine with new terain rules to hide behind is all good.
Hi all, growing up all I ever wanted was a Death army in Fantasy and a Space Wolves army in 40k. Got my Death army in AoS and am thinking now's the time to fulfill that other childhood wish of mine.
I'm going go take the plunge in 9th edition and buy the starter, focusing on a primaris force. My main question I suppose, how are Space Wolves supposed to play? I'm not bothered about being super competitive and wanted something a bit more fluffy.
I get the impression they're supposed to be a CC monster machine? Are they quick? Reliant on magic? Any advice you can offer would be great.
Additionally, Space Wolves are average at shooting since they are space marines, but really shine in close combat. In particular, the Wulfen are one of the best close combat units in the game. Space Wolf characters are some of the hardest hitting melee monsters in the game. And both of those can fight on death, which means that even if Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard or Chaos Possessed wipe a unit out on the charge, they will still die when you hit them back.
Space Wolves main challenge to date has been getting into melee. The smaller board sizes they are talking about in 9th and the denser terrain will likely help in that regard. So will the rumored changes to how reserves will work. One of the problems with suggesting how any army will work in 9th edition is that we don't know how all the changes will influence the game going forward. Speculation is still fun though!
Lastly, I'll just suggest that you consider holding off on purchasing units until the rules for 9th come out. Its possible that units might be really good now, but something happens that makes them really bad and now you're stuck with a sub-par group of models. Either pick units for the cool factor, or give it a bit of time to develop.
Additionally, Space Wolves are average at shooting since they are space marines, but really shine in close combat. In particular, the Wulfen are one of the best close combat units in the game. Space Wolf characters are some of the hardest hitting melee monsters in the game. And both of those can fight on death, which means that even if Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard or Chaos Possessed wipe a unit out on the charge, they will still die when you hit them back.
Space Wolves main challenge to date has been getting into melee. The smaller board sizes they are talking about in 9th and the denser terrain will likely help in that regard. So will the rumored changes to how reserves will work. One of the problems with suggesting how any army will work in 9th edition is that we don't know how all the changes will influence the game going forward. Speculation is still fun though!
Lastly, I'll just suggest that you consider holding off on purchasing units until the rules for 9th come out. Its possible that units might be really good now, but something happens that makes them really bad and now you're stuck with a sub-par group of models. Either pick units for the cool factor, or give it a bit of time to develop.
Much appreciated for the response. I'll start reading that website later tonight.
So it's looking mainly like CC. Tbh, that's more my style and hopefully 9th will help melee armies. I ran Death Guard in 8th so I'm used to mobility issues.
Regarding models, I'm going to buy the new starter as I think they look immense but I hadn't considered anything else beyond that. My only issue is they're not exactly 'wolfy' but I'm not too bad with conversations. I especially love the bikes but is it just weird having wolves on bikes? It's not traditionally their thing.
I'm more after the cool factor, however, I don't want to get steamrollered so thanks for the pointers.
The Start collectinh primaris space wolves is also great. Intercessors are Good and can be Made choppy with the Veteran Strat and a power fist. Agressors are ace and the Leader is a great model.
Add a Box of Wulfen and you should be close to 1500 points.
To fill out 2000 I would add some more shooting, I.e. Long Fangs or Suppressors.
Edit: for Long Fangs you basically have to buy a vanilla marine Devastator squad and a Grey hunters pack. But you will gain lots 9f wolf bits and melee weapons to bling out your primaries.
Ragnar69 wrote: The Start collectinh primaris space wolves is also great. Intercessors are Good and can be Made choppy with the Veteran Strat and a power fist. Agressors are ace and the Leader is a great model.
Add a Box of Wulfen and you should be close to 1500 points.
To fill out 2000 I would add some more shooting, I.e. Long Fangs or Suppressors.
Edit: for Long Fangs you basically have to buy a vanilla marine Devastator squad and a Grey hunters pack. But you will gain lots 9f wolf bits and melee weapons to bling out your primaries.
Aye, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna flog the 'crons to buy the SC Space Wolves.
Cheers for the pointers. Another question, what books do I need? I assume the Space Wolves Codex and Saga of the Beast... do you need the Space Marines Codex though? I'm aware that they all will become invalidated as soon as the 9th edition Codex lands but who knows when that will be.
Ragnar69 wrote: Only those 2. There is also a Vigilus book with some rules, but they are cheap so no need to get it. SM codex is useless for us.
If you want Forgeworld units you need that Index as well, but I would wait for 9th edition version before comitting there
Thanks. Will stop pestering for now. You've all been really helpful. That's good to know about the SM book.
I've got the Vigilus books so will doublecheck them. Was only focusing on the fluff and chaos stuff when I got them.
As I general rule I avoid FW - I'm a slow painter and there's enough at GW to keep me entertained.
the vigulius book ios basicly only if you wanna run blood claw and reiver heavy. it might see a new lease on life if they FAQ it to allow assault intercessors though
After a quick look at the rules, having to make a successful charge against all units you declare or else you fail all stinks. on the other hand Overwatch being limited to a stratagem is a plus for us.
There maybe a change coming to the SS that could effect our Wulfen and TWC, Unless this is a different Storm Shields with the same name.
Spoiler:
If all SS change I hope we'll see a discount on TWC but most likely not.
Niiai wrote: The new bikes will be good for SW, no?
Yeah, Devastating Charge for +2 attacks which synergizes perfectly with our special doctrine and hot off the press we can have a Primaris Biker Chaplain riding along with them! (I'm going to assume the SW version will simply be a Primaris Biker Wolf Priest).
Man, Assault Intercessor squads are dead on arrival imo. They lack speed, special weapons, abilities like devastating charge. They can't disembark and charge out of a moving vehicle, and cannot use drop pods.
Jimbobbyish wrote: Man, Assault Intercessor squads are dead on arrival imo. They lack speed, special weapons, abilities like devastating charge. They can't disembark and charge out of a moving vehicle, and cannot use drop pods.
Can you promote them to veteran Intercessors? If yes throwing 5 of them and a captain or lieutenant in an Impulsor with Shield Dome might be a nice little package. Not worth focusing everything on but too big to ignore. Might divert some shots from a Repulsor Executioner or something and if it doesn't it'll likely sneak through and your Assault Intercessors can disembark and wreak havoc T2.
Jimbobbyish wrote: Man, Assault Intercessor squads are dead on arrival imo. They lack speed, special weapons, abilities like devastating charge. They can't disembark and charge out of a moving vehicle, and cannot use drop pods.
I’m assuming you say this because they can’t first turn charge? Why would they need to? I’ve been using intercessors with Assault bolters and a hammer in impulsors for a Little while now and have had massive success. Even did well in the two test games I just played woth the new core rules. The new terrain rules really kept my impulsors alive and well until my next command phase when the troops got out with ragnar and som support characters and crushed my opponents earning secondaries while the impulsors gathered objective points almost unscathed. If you plan accordingly alpha strikes are crap. Patience has definitely paid off more with my wolves then impetuosity. I don’t see 9th edition being point and click like 8th.
Edit: try the impulsors with assault grenade launchers. Move and advance them into positions and still fire. Then turn 2 disembark 3” then move etc.
Jimbobbyish wrote: Man, Assault Intercessor squads are dead on arrival imo. They lack speed, special weapons, abilities like devastating charge. They can't disembark and charge out of a moving vehicle, and cannot use drop pods.
I’m assuming you say this because they can’t first turn charge? Why would they need to? I’ve been using intercessors with Assault bolters and a hammer in impulsors for a Little while now and have had massive success. Even did well in the two test games I just played woth the new core rules. The new terrain rules really kept my impulsors alive and well until my next command phase when the troops got out with ragnar and som support characters and crushed my opponents earning secondaries while the impulsors gathered objective points almost unscathed. If you plan accordingly alpha strikes are crap. Patience has definitely paid off more with my wolves then impetuosity. I don’t see 9th edition being point and click like 8th.
Edit: try the impulsors with assault grenade launchers. Move and advance them into positions and still fire. Then turn 2 disembark 3” then move etc.
I think my point was missed a bit, I mentioned all the things they lack that out other units have for example: regular intercessors might have less attacks then the assault versions, but they have access to better guns, power weapons and work with the impulsor much better like you have stated.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Its a similar situation to grey hunters and blood claws, but GH can be armed to the teeth with weapons, and blood claws get bonuses for charging and are buffed by wulfen with extra attacks and re-roll charges at 12".
Has anyone compared Ragnar to other wolf Lord builds in terms of efficiency? I love Ragnar and I have him however when trying to build smaller list for ninth edition in anticipation of our models costing more points I began comparing other options.
Both characters for comparison will be supported by jump pack wolf priest with Wulfen Stone:
Wolf lord on thunder wolf- dual wolf claws , master crafted, saga of the wolf kin. 106pts ( as of now) That’s 8 attacks (11 with wolf) S5 Dmg 2 reroll 1s and reroll all failed wounds for free.
Ragnar- 11 attacks Buffed by Stone ,Reroll charges, attack first if warlord.
Both characters only wound bigger targets at 5+ , Ragnar will be better against elite infantry until the Lord reroll’s to wound. Ragnar can re-roll wounds for one CP with seeking a saga. The thunder wolf lord is T5 7w and Ragnar is only T4 6w. Both have a 4++. Wolf lord is faster but ragnar can go in impulsor. I guess choice between them will come down to terrain amount and games size/ opponent with the lord being 14 pts cheaper. Thoughts?
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: Has anyone compared Ragnar to other wolf Lord builds in terms of efficiency? I love Ragnar and I have him however when trying to build smaller list for ninth edition in anticipation of our models costing more points I began comparing other options.
Both characters for comparison will be supported by jump pack wolf priest with Wulfen Stone:
Wolf lord on thunder wolf- dual wolf claws , master crafted, saga of the wolf kin. 106pts ( as of now) That’s 8 attacks (11 with wolf) S5 Dmg 2 reroll 1s and reroll all failed wounds for free.
Ragnar- 11 attacks Buffed by Stone ,Reroll charges, attack first if warlord.
Both characters only wound bigger targets at 5+ , Ragnar will be better against elite infantry until the Lord reroll’s to wound. Ragnar can re-roll wounds for one CP with seeking a saga. The thunder wolf lord is T5 7w and Ragnar is only T4 6w. Both have a 4++. Wolf lord is faster but ragnar can go in impulsor. I guess choice between them will come down to terrain amount and games size/ opponent with the lord being 14 pts cheaper. Thoughts?
imo, it comes down to speed and whats in your army. If you are taking Impulsors then go with ragnar, any other situation smash captain or twc captain would get into combat more reliably.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
SW around the 37min mark.
frost ax/sword cost as much as a PFPF only went up 1pt. TH down 1pt.
Looks like wolf guard terminators are the big winners, which only go up by 4 points when loaded with combi plasma and storm shield. Also, the old rules for plasma and shields weren’t changed by the FAQ, so we can field unblowupable plasma termi bombs for a little while longer at least.
Swiftclaws also made out well, though their chainswords are still the old AP 0 ones.
Automatically Appended Next Post: OTOH, Wulfen with hammer and shield are +8 points, or +6 points with great axes.
My biggest complaint is that TWC went up 5 points, their SS went up 3 points, and frost swords went up 5 points too (might as well switch to PF).
the price hike wont stop me from taking them but it hurts all the same.
Jimbobbyish wrote: My biggest complaint is that TWC went up 5 points, their SS went up 3 points, and frost swords went up 5 points too (might as well switch to PF).
the price hike wont stop me from taking them but it hurts all the same.
Will they get updated with the new stormshield? As in T5, 2+ and 4++?
Jimbobbyish wrote: My biggest complaint is that TWC went up 5 points, their SS went up 3 points, and frost swords went up 5 points too (might as well switch to PF).
the price hike wont stop me from taking them but it hurts all the same.
Will they get updated with the new stormshield? As in T5, 2+ and 4++?
We don't know. So far only the new Bladeguard have that rule. I guess they will not change it before the next codex ( and the plasma change as well ).
Their only downside that I can see is the lack of Thunderhammer. That will probably come with the full unit entry (If GW want them to sell well).
Has anyone compared Ragnar to other wolf Lord builds in terms of efficiency? I love Ragnar and I have him however when trying to build smaller list for ninth edition in anticipation of our models costing more points I began comparing other options.
Ragnar is a beast. He averages 14 hits with Touch of the Wild. With a modicum of luck you can wipe a 10 man Primaris squad with him in one phase. A Thunder Hammer Storm Shield Lord with Saga of the Wolfkin and the Wulfenstone and Touch of the Wild will approach him in damage dealt, but lose out on AP. Add into that you investing your Warlord Trait, a Relic, and losing out on Ragnar's re-roll charges (Ragnar's Invun is worse but he has two more wounds, a wash to me). Personally I'd only take a Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf/Jetpack over Ragnar for a beatstick character. And then only because of the increased mobility.
My biggest complaint is that TWC went up 5 points, their SS went up 3 points
I find that to be a bit harsh. A 20% hike.
and frost swords went up 5 points too
The choice to make a lot of gear (especially melee weapons) either 5pts or 10pts regardless of the differences was stupid if you ask me. Some options will just not get picked using those points. You will take the best 5pt option or the best 10 point option and the rest will never get used.
Getting back to my Wolves after a considerable hiatus focusing on Orks. I'm really loving some of the primaris stuff aesthetically compared to the oldmarines (add the fact that most my minimarines were painted with much less skill than I have now acquired), so I would preferably take as many primaris units as possible. I'm not opposed to using some GH or LF here or there but mostly I'd love to use primaris (and terminators) only.
But therein lies my question, which units are worthwhile for wolves? I have stuff unassembled and kinda wondering how some of these units fit in SW lists:
Infiltrators/ Incursors
Aggressors
Inceptors
Primaris Ancient
Gravis Captain
Repulsor variants (don't have any of these yet but going to run two Impulsors so maybe at least one for target saturation?)
Any of these even worth assembling? I'm getting the Indomitus box and those units all seem pretty solid, already kitbashed some sweet Wolfblade veterans, not loving their vanilla aesthetic for Wolves.. maybe some sanding and green stuff to make them work.
Infiltrators and incursors are good for early board control and that seems to be important in 9th. So I would take 1 or 2 units especially as our scouts can't fill that niche.
Agressors are great, lots of dakka, very punchy. Perfect units to fight over the midfield objectives.
I don't think ancients are worth it.
Instead of inceptors I would rather take either WG with jump packs and combi weapons or Long fangs with plasma cannons
Never tried the repulsors but their points cost does not appeal to me. I would again prefer fangs with plasma, very cheap and good strats along with an inbuilt reroll 1
Gravis captain is decent if your plan is to use him to support the fight for the midfield . If you want to be more aggressive you need more speed
I'm thinking about 10 termis with arjac and a Wulfen stone terminator lord teleporting in but that's over 700 points. If you can't drop near a juice target or better 2 you might be screwed.
Ithe new primarily chaplain on bike looks very tasty with saga of majesty
grouchoben wrote:Just a small addendum to add that plasma inceptors were one of the biggest winners of the 9e repoint. They are crazily cheap now.
Sadly I only have the Bolter Inceptors from Dark Imperium.
Ragnar69 wrote:Infiltrators and incursors are good for early board control and that seems to be important in 9th. So I would take 1 or 2 units especially as our scouts can't fill that niche.
Agressors are great, lots of dakka, very punchy. Perfect units to fight over the midfield objectives.
I don't think ancients are worth it.
Instead of inceptors I would rather take either WG with jump packs and combi weapons or Long fangs with plasma cannons
Never tried the repulsors but their points cost does not appeal to me. I would again prefer fangs with plasma, very cheap and good strats along with an inbuilt reroll 1
Gravis captain is decent if your plan is to use him to support the fight for the midfield . If you want to be more aggressive you need more speed
I'm thinking about 10 termis with arjac and a Wulfen stone terminator lord teleporting in but that's over 700 points. If you can't drop near a juice target or better 2 you might be screwed.
Ithe new primarily chaplain on bike looks very tasty with saga of majesty
Thanks for your input!
Inceptors or Infiltrators? I feel the 12" anti DS bubble might be a winner in the new edition. Would you go with a 10 man squad for more staying power or split them up for two bubbles?
Gravis WL could be perfect for slogging with the Aggressors however they can't really protect him for long since they are only 3 models. I'm probably going to be running Ragnar and Björn so I'm getting kinda strapped for HQ slots anyway, better take a RP, a WGBL or a WP I suppose.
But I guess I'll build the Infiltrators (any compelling reasons to take Inceptors instead?) and Aggressors at this point.
Oh, one more question, any good reason to build Intercessors with anything else than Bolt Rifles? I have 10 yet to be assembled.
Incursors are cheaper than infiltrators and a bit better in melee. But either is viable. I tend to rather take two small squads than 1 big.
Auto bolt rifles are good. Make them veterans, give them a fist and go for the enemy. You can even advance and shoot if you need the mobility or put them in an impulsor.
The standard marine melee arms actually fit primaris well enough, no need to go hunting for Salamders or Imperial Fist upgrade sprues if you want a hammer or fist
I like the idea of Space Wolf Incursors simply because you can get your super-doctrine, the paired combat knives, and a wolf priest chant to get 3 extra hits for every 6 to hit in combat. Its not the strongest, but its really cool to me.
IMO it's good if you're up against another close combat army, you can stagger your forces increase your chance of heroically intervening. I'm imagining using wolves as a screen with other beefier units to heroically intervene.
But all this is moot until the New Codex actually comes out
IMO it's good if you're up against another close combat army, you can stagger your forces increase your chance of heroically intervening. I'm imagining using wolves as a screen with other beefier units to heroically intervene.
But all this is moot until the New Codex actually comes out
Oh wow, if it's 6"Heroic Intervention for everything that's absolutely bonkers.
The Reaper variant of the new Gladiator tank also looks very tasty for SW. Annihilate any screens with 24 S5 AP-2 D1 shots. Plus however much dakka those Tempest Bolters on the front spit out.
IMO it's good if you're up against another close combat army, you can stagger your forces increase your chance of heroically intervening. I'm imagining using wolves as a screen with other beefier units to heroically intervene.
But all this is moot until the New Codex actually comes out
Oh wow, if it's 6"Heroic Intervention for everything that's absolutely bonkers.
No it's not, we will lose the 6", it's not any more in the chapter tactic. All we can hope is that we keep the PA strat so we have it at least once per turn
IMO it's good if you're up against another close combat army, you can stagger your forces increase your chance of heroically intervening. I'm imagining using wolves as a screen with other beefier units to heroically intervene.
But all this is moot until the New Codex actually comes out
Oh wow, if it's 6"Heroic Intervention for everything that's absolutely bonkers.
No it's not, we will lose the 6", it's not any more in the chapter tactic. All we can hope is that we keep the PA strat so we have it at least once per turn
Umm yeah, I guess you're right. Maybe they realized 6" heroic on Björn and Ragnar is a bit much. Sad. I'd probably keep the current one instead, 3" interventions are pretty easy to dodge. 6" not so easy.
kodos wrote: we need to wait for the Supplement anyway
until that it does not matter what we lose or not as it is just a low effort intermediate solution anyway
PA will remain valid right? Or was that really just rules for 2 months in the middle of a pandemic so no one will have been able to play with them?
They said that the best things from PA will be in the new codex as well.
PA will stay as valid as the Vigilus books. So fine in normal play but might get banned from tournaments at some Point
the new tournament rules from GW are very clear about that, for now only special Detachments are banned from tournaments
PA rules are valid until the Supplement is there, than we know if there is still something useful left from it or not
But for now I am thinking more about what to do with the Marines until that
Vehicles can be converted into the Primaris version easily with plastic card and weapon bits
Marines are a lot more work specially as the SW feet are not easy to cut into pieces
but selling them now might be a risk and buyers might be hard to find
Tiberius501 wrote: I thought this at first, however the actual Defenders of Humanity rule itself states that only troops get affected by it.
Does it?
This is what I've seen in both my digital copy and, uh, other sources:
A unit with this ability that is within range of an objective marker (as specified in the mission) controls the objective marker even if there are more enemy models within range of that objective marker. If an enemy unit within range of the same objective marker has a similar ability, then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of it as normal
I don't see anything in the 9th edition Space Wolves FAQ that changes the wording here.
Jimbobbyish wrote: Now that SW are rolled into SM codex, do we not get access to their PA book and units (centurions)
I'm suspecting that there will be a list of units that SW, DA, BA, etc. will be able to take from the regular Marines list. It probably won't include every regular SM unit (for example, why would SW want Tactical Squads when we already have an equivalent, Grey Hunters?). The supplements will include all the unique units and special characters and their updated rules.
kodos wrote: we might get them with the Codex and they are taken way with the Supplement
or Centurions go Legends anyway with the Codex
centurions are too new. If I was to compile a list of things I'd expect to see moved to legends anytime soon from marines it'd stuff that is old and or resin. I think MOST of the rhino chassis vehicles are gonna be safe for a time (simply because the rhino is used by CSMs and SOBs. had the SOB rhino been an entirely new sculpt that woulda had me worried)
kodos wrote: the new tournament rules from GW are very clear about that, for now only special Detachments are banned from tournaments
PA rules are valid until the Supplement is there, than we know if there is still something useful left from it or not
Well unless they specifically ban out PA eventually even supplement won't invalidate PA
I did not say that they invalidate it but that we will see if it is still useful
GW said the Codex will be the "best of" of 8th Edi rules, so even if PA is still valid after Supplement, there might be nothing in worth taking with the the new rules
kodos wrote: we might get them with the Codex and they are taken way with the Supplement
or Centurions go Legends anyway with the Codex
centurions are too new. If I was to compile a list of things I'd expect to see moved to legends anytime soon from marines it'd stuff that is old and or resin. I think MOST of the rhino chassis vehicles are gonna be safe for a time (simply because the rhino is used by CSMs and SOBs. had the SOB rhino been an entirely new sculpt that woulda had me worried)
There is nothing "too new" as the kits have already paid them off
And replacing the Rhino is no problem as long as the updated bits from SoB or Chaos still fit, which is basically the front plate and the doors.
and while the Rhino itself might be still available, still not reason to not put it somewhere "unseen" for Marines
it is more of the thing what GW really want for Marines, if there would be Primaris Terminators, there is no real reason to keep Centurions around
or the other way around, don't bring new Termis if you keep Centurions for Primaris
Jimbobbyish wrote: Now that SW are rolled into SM codex, do we not get access to their PA book and units (centurions)
SM didn't have much in the way of a PA book (that's basically what their supplements were), but yes, we'll get access to the various character upgrades from Faith and Fury. I'll certainly be trying out a biker Master of Sanctity as soon as I manage to figure out how I can play a corona-proof game at home
ryzouken wrote: Some hilarity:
Primaris wolf lord costs 5pts more than a primaris captain (defensible given the anti morale strat the former has over the latter)
Invictor warsuit twin ironhail autocannon costs 30pt for wolves, 0 for the rest. Also, incendium cannon has no listed value for the wolves.
Suppressors cost 105 for the unit for marines. Wolves pay only 60.
These points are fething loony.
These points are irrelevant as they are superseded by the Munitorium Fieldmanual
ryzouken wrote: Some hilarity:
Primaris wolf lord costs 5pts more than a primaris captain (defensible given the anti morale strat the former has over the latter)
Invictor warsuit twin ironhail autocannon costs 30pt for wolves, 0 for the rest. Also, incendium cannon has no listed value for the wolves.
Suppressors cost 105 for the unit for marines. Wolves pay only 60.
These points are fething loony.
Probably typo's that will be FAQ-ed (except the captain one maybe).
BrianDavion wrote: this BTW ius proably WHY GW's folding the codex into the space marines codex. less chance for errors to creep in
That'd at most be a positive side effect. Main reason is the homologation of the various Marine factions through the various Primaris releases and this being an excellent opportunity for GW to give each First Founding Chapter an equal amount of attention from now on instead of for example the Space Wolves constantly being in the spotlight while the Imperial Fists have mostly been yellow Ultramarines without access to their special characters up until recently. What we'll likely see is that every First Founding chapter and DW gets 1 exclusive Primaris unit down the road (probably going to be primaris Wulfen or primaris TWC for us) instead of SW having different kits for nearly everything.
I made a space wolves related post there but seems most sensable to stay ehre till our supplement comes. TBH I'd rather see a megathread for each chapter..
with that said, has anyone else realized how fething AWESOME grey hunters could be in 9E? it looks like boltguns are gonna be range 30 too so we could very well end up with grey hunters being "basicly as good as intercessors" for less points
BrianDavion wrote: I made a space wolves related post there but seems most sensable to stay ehre till our supplement comes. TBH I'd rather see a megathread for each chapter..
with that said, has anyone else realized how fething AWESOME grey hunters could be in 9E? it looks like boltguns are gonna be range 30 too so we could very well end up with grey hunters being "basicly as good as intercessors" for less points
Shoot you beat me here I copyed your quote from the news thread to bring it here. Grey hunters can take a WGL, that's 1-3 special weapons and 1-2 melee weapons.
Grey Hunters have always been awesome, hence why they got a big nerf at some point as "no unit that is meant to be the core tax should be awesome".
but people still made them work
yet we still have to wait for the new Codex to see what happens because the "troops must be bad" stuff can be there again
and for now Wolfguard Outriders are a possibility as well.
kodos wrote: Grey Hunters have always been awesome, hence why they got a big nerf at some point as "no unit that is meant to be the core tax should be awesome".
but people still made them work
yet we still have to wait for the new Codex to see what happens because the "troops must be bad" stuff can be there again
and for now Wolfguard Outriders are a possibility as well.
Outriders are gonna technicly be a claw unit. unless we get a strat to turn a primaris unit into wolfguard. as for troops having to suck, GW seems to deliberatly trying to make marines feel "elite and awesome" so.. we'll see
It depends on how we get access to units in general with the supplement
if Wolguard just became a Bladeguard with other keywords it is different if it stays like in old days to be a unit with access to everything but Primaris
if all specific units will only be old marines and Primaris just get a keyword change it will be boring at best
so lot of possibility from 9th will be awesome to shelf your Wolves for 10th
People keep mentioning that Boltguns are going to range 30 and I don't think that's right. I think that's just the Sternguard's special issue boltguns as that was the kit that had a lot of the changes to Marines leaked from. Now, if they gave those bolters to all veterans, including Wolf Guard, well that would be cool. If I'm wrong about the bolters, please feel free to correct me, as I would actually like to be wrong about it.
the leaded Datasheet was from the regular Command Box, and they always used normal weapons
yet we don't know what is going to change, and it could be that it is only the Command Unit that gets special crafted Bolters and no one else
Hiya. Not tactic question as such but runepriest with jump pack and min sized units of grey hunter, wolfen and thunderwolf cavalry. Did PL upgrade increase PL's in those enough 25PL went to 27PL?
Either I'm misremembering opponents list or he had 2 PL too big army. Not too unhappy especially as his thunderwolf literally did nothing all game so didn't really affect but if it's due to PL changes good idea to inform him(he's casual player and isn't neccessarily following net that much so possible he isn't even aware of whole PL change)
1, 2 and 3 have been fairly irrelevant for me(I have small blood angel force but that would require investing more money to really utilize so pass for now), 4th has at least ork stuff(and I have small wolf force but same issue as blood angels except even bigger). Leaves necrons for my active forces. Guess 
Guess I'll have to bite the bullet then:
(I'm going to assume the 
