tauist wrote: that executioner will look badass with a vintage Mk marine helmet conversion! (yes, I hate bare headed marines. I always convert bare heads to helmeted ones - being bareheaded on war front makes zero sense to me).
I tend to go for helmets but bare heads don't bother me in that way.
The pose captures the warrior in a moment of time.
What if that moment of time is AFTER their helmet has already been damaged?
tauist wrote: that executioner will look badass with a vintage Mk marine helmet conversion! (yes, I hate bare headed marines. I always convert bare heads to helmeted ones - being bareheaded on war front makes zero sense to me).
tauist wrote: that executioner will look badass with a vintage Mk marine helmet conversion! (yes, I hate bare headed marines. I always convert bare heads to helmeted ones - being bareheaded on war front makes zero sense to me).
He's got a Chaplain skull helm on.
I’m still thinking of a head swap; not a huge fan of that head.
Might go with the bearded one off the UM upgrade sprue, or something from the reivers. So many options.
I believe the whole idea behind the Judicator pose it's show how devoted to his he is role.
The left arm it's armored with a bit bigger pauldron (it has an extra ornament that may shield him even further from that angle.
The right arm it's free and without armored pauldron (mimics some kind fo japanese samurais images at least in anime) with the idea having the arm without restrictions when it comes to wield the sword.
Ironically it's just the opposite of the new Banshees design (they wield the pauldron and a secondary shield bit in the melee arm) instead.
Maybe the modeller who work in both like some of this old fight aesthetic.
I want to him to have a rule were Slaanesh models can't attack him because they admire his fashionable clothing - or attack him twice as hard for being jealous of his man candy-ness.
Nevelon wrote: There is a time for sleek and clean sci-fi armor.
There is a time for tactical operators with straps and pouches.
And then there is a time to roll around in gothic cathedral, pick up an impractically large sword, and go execute some heretics.
This is that time.
Amen.
My only lament right now is that until I see the 9th ed rules I can't work on a new army because I don't know enough about the rules to make informed decisions.
tauist wrote: that executioner will look badass with a vintage Mk marine helmet conversion! (yes, I hate bare headed marines. I always convert bare heads to helmeted ones - being bareheaded on war front makes zero sense to me).
He's not bareheaded, but yes, he'll also benefit greatly from a head-swap to a more intimidating looking helmet.
Luckily there's quite a few of those readily available - some are even already in the Primaris range!
tauist wrote: that executioner will look badass with a vintage Mk marine helmet conversion! (yes, I hate bare headed marines. I always convert bare heads to helmeted ones - being bareheaded on war front makes zero sense to me).
He's not bareheaded, but yes, he'll also benefit greatly from a head-swap to a more intimidating looking helmet.
Luckily there's quite a few of those readily available - some are even already in the Primaris range!
I'm hoping the sword doesn't impede some heads. A nice hooded head (probably the Death Watch one) would do leaps and bounds for him
bullyboy wrote: I can't unsee the new logo though. Why isn't the "A" centered? Why does the end of the "R" bleed over the boundary? Who signed off on this.....Maverick or Goose?
At least the models are great
Nevelon wrote: There is a time for sleek and clean sci-fi armor.
There is a time for tactical operators with straps and pouches.
And then there is a time to roll around in gothic cathedral, pick up an impractically large sword, and go execute some heretics.
This is that time.
The Bladeguard Veterans certainly reflect that but the normal Assault Intercessors (which I believe to be the standard Bladeguard troop) still maintain the Primaris aesthetic we've all come to love.
So its the best of both worlds to me. The veterans certainly look like Primaris that have been thoroughly integrated into marine chapters.
CKO wrote: So dreadnaughts and the like will be able to shoot and attack in melee?
Unknown. They said tanks, not vehicles but do they separate those presumably with keyword added in errata or was their tank catch-all for all vehicles is not known
I know in prior editions “tank” was a keyword and not every vehicle had it. Might be going back to that.
Sure, but it was a time when vehicle rules alone occupied 8 full pages of the 7th ed' rulebook, not even counting those of transports.
I was then possible to devote some bespoke rules for certain type of vehicles.
I feel that they will avoid entering in not so necessary complications.
So they will avoid the pain of browsing through almost all codices, errata this and that datasheet, but not others, on arbitrary classifications.
Every <vehicle> will gain the right to shoot into melee, I'm pretty sure.
Did anyone notice that all the new Necron models are sculpted with chipped and deteriorated armour? Unlike the "clean" sculpts of the current range. A bit strange that half of your army will look brand new while the other half like they had their fair share of fighting...
Some people won't mind, but it will sure bug me...
I'm glad someone translated it. And that's hilarious. GW is pretty open with using memes like that. Although it doesn't beat "I want to get off Mr. Bone's wild ride" being referenced.
I'm still hoping for some flayed ones. But, with minor conversions, I bet the two things accompanying Orikan the Diviner's new model (it has to be him) would be a great basis for some. Scythe hands kind of fit their MO
stahly wrote: Did anyone notice that all the new Necron models are sculpted with chipped and deteriorated armour? Unlike the "clean" sculpts of the current range. A bit strange that half of your army will look brand new while the other half like they had their fair share of fighting...
Some people won't mind, but it will sure bug me...
It’s going off the idea that the more expendable you are, the worse quality your necrodermis is. Worn and not fully effective necrodermis for the chaff has been a thing for a while.
stahly wrote: Did anyone notice that all the new Necron models are sculpted with chipped and deteriorated armour? Unlike the "clean" sculpts of the current range. A bit strange that half of your army will look brand new while the other half like they had their fair share of fighting...
Some people won't mind, but it will sure bug me...
stahly wrote: Did anyone notice that all the new Necron models are sculpted with chipped and deteriorated armour? Unlike the "clean" sculpts of the current range. A bit strange that half of your army will look brand new while the other half like they had their fair share of fighting...
Some people won't mind, but it will sure bug me...
Just smooth the damage out with green stuff
My Necrons include some with bits missing and still regenerating, missing limbs etc - same as my Undead
stahly wrote: Did anyone notice that all the new Necron models are sculpted with chipped and deteriorated armour? Unlike the "clean" sculpts of the current range. A bit strange that half of your army will look brand new while the other half like they had their fair share of fighting...
Some people won't mind, but it will sure bug me...
Did you notice that the old kits look and new kits compatible, so you can mix and match chipped/damaged bits with clean ones?
I'm glad someone translated it. And that's hilarious. GW is pretty open with using memes like that. Although it doesn't beat "I want to get off Mr. Bone's wild ride" being referenced.
I'm still hoping for some flayed ones. But, with minor conversions, I bet the two things accompanying Orikan the Diviner's new model (it has to be him) would be a great basis for some. Scythe hands kind of fit their MO
I'm sorry when did they reference Mr. Bone's Wild Ride?
I'm still hoping for some flayed ones. But, with minor conversions, I bet the two things accompanying Orikan the Diviner's new model (it has to be him) would be a great basis for some. Scythe hands kind of fit their MO
I'm not sure about that. It seems to be part of the new edition starter box and I cant remember GW ever putting a SC in one of those before. My money would be on some new Cryptek variant.
Tokhuah wrote: Given the Necron focus in 9th do you think this would be an optimal time to sell a painted Necron army?
Now is the best time to sell a Necron army though all the markets were just flooded with people doing the exact same thing. So good luck getting the price you want for it!
What are your predictions, or fears, about the blast weapons making maximum hits against hordes of infantry ?
They could make the rule pretty short and simple, by adding a simple paragraph in the weapon types section of the rulebook.
Something aligned on some rules seen in Psychic awakening books, like :
For weapons with random number type, if you target a unit made of X models or more, do not roll the number of shots : it automatically makes the maximum number. For example, a heavy D6 weapon makes 6 shots. It could be that straightforward, avoiding the need to errata the codices.
The big question, what will be the threshold ?
10 ? 11 ? 20 ?
Ravajaxe wrote: What are your predictions, or fears, about the blast weapons making maximum hits against hordes of infantry ?
They could make the rule pretty short and simple, by adding a simple paragraph in the weapon types section of the rulebook.
Something aligned on some rules seen in Psychic awakening books, like :
For weapons with random number type, if you target a unit made of X models or more, do not roll the number of shots : it automatically makes the maximum number. For example, a heavy D6 weapon makes 6 shots. It could be that straightforward, avoiding the need to errata the codices.
The big question, what will be the threshold ?
10 ? 11 ? 20 ?
They already stated Blast is a new keyword that will be added to appropriate weapon entries in codex's.
I suspect that implies that Tank is probably also going to be a new keyword and I noticed on a rewatch of the stream that it's the host that says shoot into combat to shoot out of combat and the rules guy's face certainly implies the host just got the rule wrong.
Tokhuah wrote: Given the Necron focus in 9th do you think this would be an optimal time to sell a painted Necron army?
hard to say, I mean a lotta those units are likely going to see new plastic kits so you might see intreast in them drop. that said, now's the time to sell when people expect them to be uber powerful. when most likely the real result will be 'crons getting the same level of attention as death guard (big event at edition's start, then forgotten)
The obvious conversion for flayed ones to me would be the new warriors with their dings and scratches, simply replace their hands, repose a little, add some green stuff.
I did similar with the old warriors and a hobby knife to add dings and scratches, though I never got around to the sheets of skin because sculpting fabric consistently scares me.
I would assume that the terrain piece, if they're getting one(Guard, Marines, Tyranids, and AdMech haven't gotten them), would be the bit in the back by the Monolith.
Spoiler:
It looks about the right size for an army terrain piece...but it also looks like it might be three sets of 'pylons' grouped together?
Well, we have a tiny selection of terrain for Tau, Eldar, and Chaos so it isn't out of the realm of possibility. Personally, I love the look of this and hope it gets released.
Breotan wrote: Well, we have a tiny selection of terrain for Tau, Eldar, and Chaos so it isn't out of the realm of possibility. Personally, I love the look of this and hope it gets released.
T'au too. They have a lot of "mobile" terrain. I suppose you could count the GSC drill, even though it's more plain. Orks also have that mek shop (plus the OOP terrain from that ork racing game)
Breotan wrote: Well, we have a tiny selection of terrain for Tau, Eldar, and Chaos so it isn't out of the realm of possibility. Personally, I love the look of this and hope it gets released.
T'au too. They have a lot of "mobile" terrain. I suppose you could count the GSC drill, even though it's more plain. Orks also have that mek shop (plus the OOP terrain from that ork racing game)
Speed Freeks terrain isn't OOP, it comes with Mekboy Workshop.
Huh. This whole time I thought tank already was a keyword that just hadn't been given any rules.
I'm torn by the existence of assault intercessors. On the one hand it seems like another knife in the back of traditional marines, on the other the models are nice and I really want to see what tacticus jump packs look like. On the third hand, having seen suppressors, I'm scared to find out what the tacticus jump packs will look like because I fear it'll appear just as underpowered. I want my big square boosters.
Man those new marine bikes have zero rake. They are just bottomed out. What an absolutely stupid error. I get that they are never going to be practical but they should at least be able to move and steer without stretching the imagination.
Nevelon wrote: Looking at the bilkes, I think the front strut might extend for movement, but the combat deployment is retracted.
At least that’s what I’m telling myself so I can pretend they can actually move.
Looks to me like the front forks curve in behind the wheel, attaching to the frame with a central pivot, so the whole fork will pivot sideways to turn.
They're an awful design... If I were inclined to collect Primaris marines, I think I would be looking to convert the current bikes with Primaris riders rather than buying these.
Red Corsair wrote: Man those new marine bikes have zero rake. They are just bottomed out. What an absolutely stupid error. I get that they are never going to be practical but they should at least be able to move and steer without stretching the imagination.
Zustiur wrote: Huh. This whole time I thought tank already was a keyword that just hadn't been given any rules.
I'm torn by the existence of assault intercessors. On the one hand it seems like another knife in the back of traditional marines, on the other the models are nice and I really want to see what tacticus jump packs look like. On the third hand, having seen suppressors, I'm scared to find out what the tacticus jump packs will look like because I fear it'll appear just as underpowered. I want my big square boosters.
I like the older bikes more than the new ones, and FW bikes more than either.
Eh.
I like the Assault Intercessors - if they are troops they will be great for Assault focused marine chapters, if they aren't, they'll be trash. I see they have the crossed arrows of Assault style squads, so they might end up being FA, but on the other hand that means the box set will have no Troop choices...
I also don't like the fact the Veterans there seem to have gold shoulders - unless they are something like Primaris Company Veterans/Company Command Squad.
Nevelon wrote: Looking at the bilkes, I think the front strut might extend for movement, but the combat deployment is retracted.
At least that’s what I’m telling myself so I can pretend they can actually move.
Looks to me like the front forks curve in behind the wheel, attaching to the frame with a central pivot, so the whole fork will pivot sideways to turn.
They're an awful design... If I were inclined to collect Primaris marines, I think I would be looking to convert the current bikes with Primaris riders rather than buying these.
From a visual asthethic perspective, I think they'd have been better as repulsor bikes with the plating underneath to better fit the slightly improved tech level of the primaris compared with fat wheeled old marines.
Turning them into repulsor bikes would be a ridiculously easy conversion, with a couple of plates from the grav tank... just leave off the front forks and the back wheel, and add a grav plate front and rear.
Red Corsair wrote: Man those new marine bikes have zero rake. They are just bottomed out. What an absolutely stupid error. I get that they are never going to be practical but they should at least be able to move and steer without stretching the imagination.
I don't mind these new bikes, but I can see why making them grav-bikes would have perhaps been a better aesthetic for the Primaris. It'd make 'em fit with all their eyesore tanks.
Crazyterran wrote: I like the older bikes more than the new ones, and FW bikes more than either.
Eh.
I like the Assault Intercessors - if they are troops they will be great for Assault focused marine chapters, if they aren't, they'll be trash. I see they have the crossed arrows of Assault style squads, so they might end up being FA, but on the other hand that means the box set will have no Troop choices...
I also don't like the fact the Veterans there seem to have gold shoulders - unless they are something like Primaris Company Veterans/Company Command Squad.
Incursors have the crossed arrows as well and they are Troops. So there is a precedent there. So I could see them going either way. But I am thinking they will be Troops. Which is good. More options would be great. Though it gives Marines six Troops choices, which is a bit dumb.
Really hoping that the Assault Intercessors aren't just a weapon swap for Intercessors for the same points as a Bolt Rifle. They have to have some sort of delivery mechanism that isn't an Impulsor or they're not gonna be much use. Base rules might change enough to make foots logging melee units work, but I wouldn't count on it.
On the up-side, those shield veteran thingies practically scream Black Templars, so that is nice.
insaniak wrote: Turning them into repulsor bikes would be a ridiculously easy conversion, with a couple of plates from the grav tank... just leave off the front forks and the back wheel, and add a grav plate front and rear.
Yup. I'd love to say that I came up with it on my own but I saw this a while back so already have a prototype that someone put together for home 3d printing.
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H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't mind these new bikes, but I can see why making them grav-bikes would have perhaps been a better aesthetic for the Primaris. It'd make 'em fit with all their eyesore tanks.
Consistency does help. The example I posted above even comes standard in ultramarinish blue... it's a sign from the Emperor! Do it!
The more Blanchesque Necron kits look amazing, but I am baffled at GW's media strategy. I sat through a 2 hour stream to see a primaris marine with a chainsword and a redone necron warriors kit, then within a few hours all this extra gonzo stuff shows up. I can only think how much more exciting the stream would have been if they'd dropped some of this stuff on us then.
soviet13 wrote: The more Blanchesque Necron kits look amazing, but I am baffled at GW's media strategy. I sat through a 2 hour stream to see a primaris marine with a chainsword and a redone necron warriors kit, then within a few hours all this extra gonzo stuff shows up. I can only think how much more exciting the stream would have been if they'd dropped some of this stuff on us then.
The rest of this was not intended to be revealed. They even alluded to the "potato camera" aka someone leaked the upcoming release and took a terrible photo. Since the photo was already out there, GW just decided to go ahead and show off everything. Which is what they usually do with leaks now. They did it with Magnus, teased the Sons of Behemet, and a ton of other leaks. So this is just GW being nice, not them not understanding how to properly preview models.
That stuff got leaked via people fooling around in the coding for the new 40k page in all likelihood. It was going to be revealed in time. The stream was the reveal.
But I don't see the harm in going "We're announcing a new edition... and here's the starter box where you can get the great new rulebook!".
We don't end up with people going "I watched an hour and a half and saw Primaris Marines with Chainswords and replacement Necron Warriors... where's the rest?"
Of course GW aren't in a position one could envy. They're stuck revealing the new edition whilst still having 3 PA books to get through.
Yeah, the community article today seemed as if it were in response to the spilling of the new starter contents.
In any case, revealing everything that’s been revealed this weekend (inadvertent or not) is the better move over drip feeding models from the starter over the course of June until the complete contents are finally shown off in July when preorders go live.
As has been mentioned, I’m sure GW themselves have a backlog of stuff including the PA books from which to create content.
Just because I'm ignorant to the method of design -> casting -> resale, why are these miniatures colored this way? Are they like, initial sculpts or something?
Just because I'm ignorant to the method of design -> casting -> resale, why are these miniatures colored this way? Are they like, initial sculpts or something?
I hope there’s eventually Primaris Captains and Lieutenants at least on bikes. I’d love to convert the style of bikes we’re getting into some gnarly hog
I’m of two minds. The unplanned leaks saved the Saturday reveal, but clearly GW wanted to save those for later. Showing literally 4-5 of those dozen new models from the large Necron and Space Marine would have made the official GW stream a real success. But in the end, control of messaging is elusive in the internet age. It’ll shrink whatever the next reveal is (or obviate it all together), but no big deal. In the end, I’m looking forward to the releases.
dienekes96 wrote: I’m of two minds. The unplanned leaks saved the Saturday reveal, but clearly GW wanted to save those for later. Showing literally 4-5 of those dozen new models from the large Necron and Space Marine would have made the official GW stream a real success. But in the end, control of messaging is elusive in the internet age. It’ll shrink whatever the next reveal is (or obviate it all together), but no big deal. In the end, I’m looking forward to the releases.
GW has a history of teasing this kind of stuff out over time to keep the hype up. This is probably a couple weeks of content gone, though they'll probably come back to them later and toss in a rule or two to pad it out later.
ClockworkZion wrote: GW has a history of teasing this kind of stuff out over time to keep the hype up. This is probably a couple weeks of content gone, though they'll probably come back to them later and toss in a rule or two to pad it out later.
Nothing wrong with longer teases, especially for a major release, but it's clear they've got a ton of new kits outside of the new starter box lined up, so I don't see why announcing the starterbox alongside the announcement of the new edition would have been so hard.
ClockworkZion wrote: GW has a history of teasing this kind of stuff out over time to keep the hype up. This is probably a couple weeks of content gone, though they'll probably come back to them later and toss in a rule or two to pad it out later.
Nothing wrong with longer teases, especially for a major release, but it's clear they've got a ton of new kits outside of the new starter box lined up, so I don't see why announcing the starterbox alongside the announcement of the new edition would have been so hard.
Hard? No. But they likely wanted to tease this out over weeks until the actual edition launch was ready to go. Probably an article a week like they've done for other stuff in the past.
GW love to drag things out to create as much hype as possible, because they are fully aware that there is a large chunk of their target audience, who are very susceptible to hype.
It also helps take focus off their immediate price increases
stonehorse wrote: GW love to drag things out to create as much hype as possible, because they are fully aware that there is a large chunk of their target audience, who are very susceptible to hype.
It also helps take focus off their immediate price increases
If I was a more cynical person I'd say the leaked pics are entirely a reaction to the anger over price increases. Nothing stops gamers in their tracks like the new shinies.
Soulless wrote: So the Judiciar is what, a space marine commisar?
Roumered to be some sort of dualist charictor that makes an enemy unit strike last in CC.
Though I suspect he'll do nothing untill they get their new 3.0 Codex.
stonehorse wrote: GW love to drag things out to create as much hype as possible, because they are fully aware that there is a large chunk of their target audience, who are very susceptible to hype.
It also helps take focus off their immediate price increases
If I was a more cynical person I'd say the leaked pics are entirely a reaction to the anger over price increases. Nothing stops gamers in their tracks like the new shinies.
I suspect the blurry images are GW deliberately leaking them. No way non-GW could so consistently get bad picture out. Sure I could see sometimes. But every single time? With these ages phone cameras make it easy to get non blurry photo yet nobody ever manages that trick? Either every rumour leaker is so incompetent they manage to misuse camera big time or it's GW deliberately leaking it.
Soulless wrote: So the Judiciar is what, a space marine commisar?
Roumered to be some sort of dualist charictor that makes an enemy unit strike last in CC.
Though I suspect he'll do nothing untill they get their new 3.0 Codex.
I'm betting he's a loyalist Master of Executions.
And if loyalists get a new codex before the older chaos and xenos codexes are updated I predict more salt than in the entire Pacific. By both players of said factions and loyalist players whose codex still has ink drying from the printers.
I mean, there no ‘if’ about that. They’ve new toys so their Codex will be first out of the gate. Prep your salt if that’s how you need to react, but Marines will be first and Necrons second.
Leave jetbikes to custodes (as they are that rare) in the imperium.
As soon as they start having grav tanks, grav bikes etc etc, it's overlapping too much with Eldar.
Also, I think it looks cooler, and it seems more brutal to not be mounted on a jet bike. Charging head first into the enemy, on a massive bike, weapons blazing, the mental image is better on a land based bike, you don't need agility if you're aiming to hit hard and from a straight line charge. The bikes can be bigger and sturdier as well with wheels, they'd have to be more sleek if they were jet bikes, again taking away from part of their potency, which would be hitting fast with a hell of a lot of mass.
Soulless wrote: So the Judiciar is what, a space marine commisar?
Roumered to be some sort of dualist charictor that makes an enemy unit strike last in CC.
Though I suspect he'll do nothing untill they get their new 3.0 Codex.
I'm betting he's a loyalist Master of Executions.
And if loyalists get a new codex before the older chaos and xenos codexes are updated I predict more salt than in the entire Pacific. By both players of said factions and loyalist players whose codex still has ink drying from the printers.
Tbf the inspiration of the Exesword compared to it's implementation on the model is meh at best.
As for the salt, i don't know, new models require new rules otoh they stated explicitly that the codexes and PA aswell as vigilus would span over, i think they will get a shadowspear type deal with an updated v1.5 dex not unlike we got down the line.
Soulless wrote: So the Judiciar is what, a space marine commisar?
Roumered to be some sort of dualist charictor that makes an enemy unit strike last in CC.
Though I suspect he'll do nothing untill they get their new 3.0 Codex.
I'm betting he's a loyalist Master of Executions.
And if loyalists get a new codex before the older chaos and xenos codexes are updated I predict more salt than in the entire Pacific. By both players of said factions and loyalist players whose codex still has ink drying from the printers.
Tbf the inspiration of the Exesword compared to it's implementation on the model is meh at best.
As for the salt, i don't know, new models require new rules otoh they stated explicitly that the codexes and PA aswell as vigilus would span over, i think they will get a shadowspear type deal with an updated v1.5 dex not unlike we got down the line.
That's what I expect as well. Or possibly including the rules for the new models in a new campaign book, so purchase of the a new codex wouldn't be a requirement, as they did with Vigilus Ablaze.
Soulless wrote: So the Judiciar is what, a space marine commisar?
Roumered to be some sort of dualist charictor that makes an enemy unit strike last in CC.
Though I suspect he'll do nothing untill they get their new 3.0 Codex.
I'm betting he's a loyalist Master of Executions.
And if loyalists get a new codex before the older chaos and xenos codexes are updated I predict more salt than in the entire Pacific. By both players of said factions and loyalist players whose codex still has ink drying from the printers.
Tbf the inspiration of the Exesword compared to it's implementation on the model is meh at best.
As for the salt, i don't know, new models require new rules otoh they stated explicitly that the codexes and PA aswell as vigilus would span over, i think they will get a shadowspear type deal with an updated v1.5 dex not unlike we got down the line.
That's what I expect as well. Or possibly including the rules for the new models in a new campaign book, so purchase of the a new codex wouldn't be a requirement, as they did with Vigilus Ablaze.
They already let the cat out the back on stream, their is a new Marine codex with added Crusade content for all your narative game needs.
Not to mention when has the contents of the starter box not been one of the first codex's to drop across the last 5 editions.
stonehorse wrote: GW love to drag things out to create as much hype as possible, because they are fully aware that there is a large chunk of their target audience, who are very susceptible to hype.
It also helps take focus off their immediate price increases
If I was a more cynical person I'd say the leaked pics are entirely a reaction to the anger over price increases. Nothing stops gamers in their tracks like the new shinies.
I suspect the blurry images are GW deliberately leaking them. No way non-GW could so consistently get bad picture out. Sure I could see sometimes. But every single time? With these ages phone cameras make it easy to get non blurry photo yet nobody ever manages that trick? Either every rumour leaker is so incompetent they manage to misuse camera big time or it's GW deliberately leaking it.
At least the necron pic is heavily pixelated because it's a thumbnail, not because of a potato camera.
They also said/wrote that new Books will come with new Rules/Models etc. and one has to be the first, no matter if the rules were written with 9th in mind or not.
Than there is the new Logo and Layout.
And as the 40k Website makes clear what the 3 Factions to start this Edition are, a new Codex Marines, Necrons and SoB is to be expected, and yes even if there is an update kind of thing, at least the new narritive stuff will only be there.
So maybe the matched play people don't need to get the new book while the casual narritive player will need it.
Also expect a new CA soon after as new points costs and rules adjustment for everyone else will be needed as well
It would be great in Primaris Marines got their own Codex, with these new additions their model line is pretty large. If not, the new Marine Codex is going to be a hefty bugger.
I suspect that the new stuff we have seen for the Primaris Marines is only the beginning of a 3rd wave, so again, would make more sense to split the Marine Codexes.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Really hoping that the Assault Intercessors aren't just a weapon swap for Intercessors for the same points as a Bolt Rifle. They have to have some sort of delivery mechanism that isn't an Impulsor or they're not gonna be much use. Base rules might change enough to make foots logging melee units work, but I wouldn't count on it.
On the up-side, those shield veteran thingies practically scream Black Templars, so that is nice.
stonehorse wrote: It would be great in Primaris Marines got their own Codex, with these new additions their model line is pretty large. If not, the new Marine Codex is going to be a hefty bugger.
I suspect that the new stuff we have seen for the Primaris Marines is only the beginning of a 3rd wave, so again, would make more sense to split the Marine Codexes.
New Primaris models are coming out with such regularity that it would quickly be outdated. Best case scenario you're buying a new 'dex every year, worse you're carting around MORE supplement books.
stonehorse wrote: It would be great in Primaris Marines got their own Codex, with these new additions their model line is pretty large. If not, the new Marine Codex is going to be a hefty bugger.
I suspect that the new stuff we have seen for the Primaris Marines is only the beginning of a 3rd wave, so again, would make more sense to split the Marine Codexes.
New Primaris models are coming out with such regularity that it would quickly be outdated. Best case scenario you're buying a new 'dex every year, worse you're carting around MORE supplement books.
GW would love that! A way to get people to replace their Codexes every few months, as opposed to every few years. Yeah, I can see GW dreaming of being able to do that to their fan base.
stonehorse wrote: It would be great in Primaris Marines got their own Codex, with these new additions their model line is pretty large. If not, the new Marine Codex is going to be a hefty bugger.
I suspect that the new stuff we have seen for the Primaris Marines is only the beginning of a 3rd wave, so again, would make more sense to split the Marine Codexes.
New Primaris models are coming out with such regularity that it would quickly be outdated. Best case scenario you're buying a new 'dex every year, worse you're carting around MORE supplement books.
GW would love that! A way to get people to replace their Codexes every few months, as opposed to every few years. Yeah, I can see GW dreaming of being able to do that to their fan base.
They just need to sack off printed Codex's now to be honest. Have a subscription based system for Codex's and update as you go... New model released? Update the codex and the rules are there.
Make it fairly reasonable price wise per codex, and allow discounts for multi subscriptions, or a price for all rules.
Better for the customers, better for them, better for the environment, it's a win all round really. No need for FAQ's or chapter approved as it can be incorporated straight into the rules. And well, the FAQ can be in the codex for clarifying any equations that occur.
They could even be super amazing to the customers and provide credit at the end of the year towards next years subscription to a codex if that codex happened to have zero updates.
Crimson wrote: When was the updated marine codex released? Feels like it was very recently?
Wasn't it like this time last year?
EDIT: It was August last year
In that case it would be rather bizarre if they released a new one again. I usually don't complain about too rapid releases, but a codex should last at least two years from its release.
If they did, as a gesture of good will, they should allow anyone to swap the codex to the new one, or at least give them an electronic version for free.
Anyway, subscription model is needed. I get the argument some have that they don't want to carry around, or refer to a tablet/their phone all the time, but it is certainly better than the 7 books/Faqs to make an army work approach.
Could be a bit like the Chaos v2 Codex - an updated one so new players have everything in one place, but existing players can get by with a PDF update.
How else are GW supposed to givr marine players rules for their shiney new models because they have all run out of models to paint by now, they needed aome new models to avoid it becoming repeates of the same pose.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Asmodai wrote: Could be a bit like the Chaos v2 Codex - an updated one so new players have everything in one place, but existing players can get by with a PDF update.
They already nixed that as it's got all the cool new narative play mechanics, everyone needs those.
Simply put if you play marines wxcept that you are now the cash cow that GW intends to milk untill you leave.
But enjoy your entire new second range while failcast is still forced upon other armies.
Its either a new Codex or another supplement. With just the 9th starter box contents we are looking at six new or modified data sheets at least. Then there is whatever else comes out in the following wave.
They are going to have to split the book at some point. Otherwise Codex SM is going to end up bigger than the 40k rule book.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: If they did, as a gesture of good will, they should allow anyone to swap the codex to the new one, or at least give them an electronic version for free .
why should they do it, or why should they care?
people buy it anyway
Codex Necrons and Codex Marines first with all the new models - if we are lucky then the Supplements will not be redone as thats a uneeded resource drain.
Codex Adepta Sororitas is a good posisbility given the prominance of them and that GM seeming to trying to embrace the idea of a male AND female imperial lead army. (good thing in my view)
Hopefully then some more Chaos and Xenos factions despite the inevitable clamour for the Wolves and the Angels - who want their own super unique Codex and all the new toys......
The fact that Sisters are also showing as a featured army when the got a Codex this year so are unlikely to get another one so soon makes me think there’s a slim chance the new Marine stuff will be in a supplement type book rather than yet another Codex.
Both Sisters and Marines books share some design beats (e.g. anti-soup mechanisms) that make them appear to be ‘9th ready’ books and Necrons seem to be the first new codex (since there’s a new cover floating round). Perhaps they’ll just release a supplement with the Crusade rules for the first two and all the new data sheets?
ScarletRose wrote: If I was a more cynical person I'd say the leaked pics are entirely a reaction to the anger over price increases. Nothing stops gamers in their tracks like the new shinies.
It's simpler than that. The price increases were announced days before the 40K reveal specifically so they'd get buried under the new 40K stuff. You don't even need leaks for that.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: If they did, as a gesture of good will, they should allow anyone to swap the codex to the new one, or at least give them an electronic version for free.
Or maybe let us swap our brand new datacards that are about to be completely invalidated. I made the plunge with datacards for Chaos and Marines as I figured they were the newest and therefore the least likely to be instantly replaced.
Lord Zarkov wrote: The fact that Sisters are also showing as a featured army when the got a Codex this year so are unlikely to get another one so soon makes me think there’s a slim chance the new Marine stuff will be in a supplement type book rather than yet another Codex.
Both Sisters and Marines books share some design beats (e.g. anti-soup mechanisms) that make them appear to be ‘9th ready’ books and Necrons seem to be the first new codex (since there’s a new cover floating round). Perhaps they’ll just release a supplement with the Crusade rules for the first two and all the new data sheets?
A Crusade Supplement would be nice but codexes are what GW does.
ScarletRose wrote: If I was a more cynical person I'd say the leaked pics are entirely a reaction to the anger over price increases. Nothing stops gamers in their tracks like the new shinies.
It's simpler than that. The price increases were announced days before the 40K reveal specifically so they'd get buried under the new 40K stuff. You don't even need leaks for that.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: If they did, as a gesture of good will, they should allow anyone to swap the codex to the new one, or at least give them an electronic version for free.
Or maybe let us swap our brand new datacards that are about to be completely invalidated. I made the plunge with datacards for Chaos and Marines as I figured they were the newest and therefore the least likely to be instantly replaced.
Nope.
Datacards are mostly maelstrom objectives, psychic powers and stratagems - while you might be missing some (as is everyone with a PA update), the cards you do have should remain valid.
Lord Zarkov wrote: The fact that Sisters are also showing as a featured army when the got a Codex this year so are unlikely to get another one so soon makes me think there’s a slim chance the new Marine stuff will be in a supplement type book rather than yet another Codex.
Both Sisters and Marines books share some design beats (e.g. anti-soup mechanisms) that make them appear to be ‘9th ready’ books and Necrons seem to be the first new codex (since there’s a new cover floating round). Perhaps they’ll just release a supplement with the Crusade rules for the first two and all the new data sheets?
A Crusade Supplement would be nice but codexes are what GW does.
True, hence ‘slim chance’
Although a Crusade Supplement would allow them to cover off red marines, green marines and maybe even grey marines at the same time as blue marines...
Lord Zarkov wrote: The fact that Sisters are also showing as a featured army when the got a Codex this year so are unlikely to get another one so soon makes me think there’s a slim chance the new Marine stuff will be in a supplement type book rather than yet another Codex.
Both Sisters and Marines books share some design beats (e.g. anti-soup mechanisms) that make them appear to be ‘9th ready’ books and Necrons seem to be the first new codex (since there’s a new cover floating round). Perhaps they’ll just release a supplement with the Crusade rules for the first two and all the new data sheets?
A Crusade Supplement would be nice but codexes are what GW does.
What I’m hoping is that there are generic crusade rules in the main rulebook, but with faction specific stuff in the codexes. Sort of like warlord traits and strats, or more hopefully like tactical objectives (which are much less relevant to have your specific ones). So you can get by with the basic XP paths/upgrades/whatever they use for the system, but once you get your individual ones, you can use those instead.
This way they are not forced to push new codexes just so people can play the new system.
Not looking forward to shelling out for new books.
stonehorse wrote: It would be great in Primaris Marines got their own Codex, with these new additions their model line is pretty large. If not, the new Marine Codex is going to be a hefty bugger
Imho, they should have just done the base increase and released primaries. Then as the range got larger slowly phase out the original marine scale.
Primaris just seemed awkward to me in terms of explaining them. That said, I don't read the novels or further lore.
Love the necron stuff. Will have to get some of the models.
Sanjay
stonehorse wrote: It would be great in Primaris Marines got their own Codex, with these new additions their model line is pretty large. If not, the new Marine Codex is going to be a hefty bugger
Imho, they should have just done the base increase and released primaries. Then as the range got larger slowly phase out the original marine scale.
Primaris just seemed awkward to me in terms of explaining them. That said, I don't read the novels or further lore.
Love the necron stuff. Will have to get some of the models.
Sanjay
I'm fairly convinced they'll be retconned to normal marines at some point, or they'll just drop the primaris word at some point and let the fluff reconcile itself as time goes on.
Tactical marines will be used in an interchangeable fashion with intercessors, bolt rifles will be interchangeable as bolters.
Lord Zarkov wrote: The fact that Sisters are also showing as a featured army when the got a Codex this year so are unlikely to get another one so soon makes me think there’s a slim chance the new Marine stuff will be in a supplement type book rather than yet another Codex.
Both Sisters and Marines books share some design beats (e.g. anti-soup mechanisms) that make them appear to be ‘9th ready’ books and Necrons seem to be the first new codex (since there’s a new cover floating round). Perhaps they’ll just release a supplement with the Crusade rules for the first two and all the new data sheets?
The anti soup thing is opposite of 9th ed ready. If core rules already rewards mono adding more to codex(and to just sisters and marines) is just silly.
Lord Zarkov wrote: The fact that Sisters are also showing as a featured army when the got a Codex this year so are unlikely to get another one so soon makes me think there’s a slim chance the new Marine stuff will be in a supplement type book rather than yet another Codex.
Both Sisters and Marines books share some design beats (e.g. anti-soup mechanisms) that make them appear to be ‘9th ready’ books and Necrons seem to be the first new codex (since there’s a new cover floating round). Perhaps they’ll just release a supplement with the Crusade rules for the first two and all the new data sheets?
The anti soup thing is opposite of 9th ed ready. If core rules already rewards mono adding more to codex(and to just sisters and marines) is just silly.
I agree but I wondernif by 9th edition ready, they mean 9th is a CC edition as both marines and Sisters have some powerful CC builds that don't exactly excelle in 8th without these mono faction buff upon buff upon buff.
That or 9th is leaning ever harder away from CC.
Lord Zarkov wrote: The fact that Sisters are also showing as a featured army when the got a Codex this year so are unlikely to get another one so soon makes me think there’s a slim chance the new Marine stuff will be in a supplement type book rather than yet another Codex.
Both Sisters and Marines books share some design beats (e.g. anti-soup mechanisms) that make them appear to be ‘9th ready’ books and Necrons seem to be the first new codex (since there’s a new cover floating round). Perhaps they’ll just release a supplement with the Crusade rules for the first two and all the new data sheets?
The anti soup thing is opposite of 9th ed ready. If core rules already rewards mono adding more to codex(and to just sisters and marines) is just silly.
Other factions will probably get bonuses when they get their new codexes. Whenever that happens. Of course it would be silly to start with the older codexes.
Lord Zarkov wrote: The fact that Sisters are also showing as a featured army when the got a Codex this year so are unlikely to get another one so soon makes me think there’s a slim chance the new Marine stuff will be in a supplement type book rather than yet another Codex.
Both Sisters and Marines books share some design beats (e.g. anti-soup mechanisms) that make them appear to be ‘9th ready’ books and Necrons seem to be the first new codex (since there’s a new cover floating round). Perhaps they’ll just release a supplement with the Crusade rules for the first two and all the new data sheets?
The anti soup thing is opposite of 9th ed ready. If core rules already rewards mono adding more to codex(and to just sisters and marines) is just silly.
Other factions will probably get bonuses when they get their new codexes. Whenever that happens. Of course it would be silly to start with the older codexes.
No evidence so far of that. People thought pa gives to others. It didn't. And pouring bonus if you go for bonus is just silly. Marine and sister rule makes sense if core rules don't encourage mono. If they do they are silly.
I have to wonder why people think GW will produce a new Codex Space Marines a year after the last codex when they can just do either a Psychic Awakening-styple supplement or Shadowspear-style codex expansion for all the new units?
Codex Necrons is probably the first new codex on the 9th edition hit list. The last codex was released in March 2018, making it over two years old. We know it is getting a ton of new models that need unit entries. Roll in whatever they do in Pariah along with additional rules expansion that didn't make that cut and you have a codex full of new goodies.
While I don't think 9th is leaning away from CC I also don't expect to see it lean into it either. Sure, CC will be stronger if stuff like sneaking through terrain is a thing, but with changes to vehicles and points may keep it from gaining too much power.
I only expected PA to be a sort of 8.5 update for most books (I didn't expect to see further Marine character options in Faith and Fury though). Basically a get in, give armies every rule that's already done and playtesters, and then get out.
I don't hate the idea, but I feel that Chapter Approved could be a better vehicle for some of these smaller rules updates over a whole campaign setting (especially if said campaign setting lacks rules for playing out the battles it describes).
alextroy wrote: I have to wonder why people think GW will produce a new Codex Space Marines a year after the last codex when they can just do either a Psychic Awakening-styple supplement or Shadowspear-style codex expansion for all the new units?
Codex Necrons is probably the first new codex on the 9th edition hit list. The last codex was released in March 2018, making it over two years old. We know it is getting a ton of new models that need unit entries. Roll in whatever they do in Pariah along with additional rules expansion that didn't make that cut and you have a codex full of new goodies.
For new players.
Someone comes in, grabs the starter box, wants to play marines. You want to put a codex in their hand and make the sale. It would be confusing for new players to have to grab 2-3 books to get started.
For old hands, we’d be fine (and probably prefer) just to get a quick patch rather then replace a book so new the ink is still wet.
alextroy wrote: I have to wonder why people think GW will produce a new Codex Space Marines a year after the last codex when they can just do either a Psychic Awakening-styple supplement or Shadowspear-style codex expansion for all the new units?
Codex Necrons is probably the first new codex on the 9th edition hit list. The last codex was released in March 2018, making it over two years old. We know it is getting a ton of new models that need unit entries. Roll in whatever they do in Pariah along with additional rules expansion that didn't make that cut and you have a codex full of new goodies.
Honestly I expect a Shadowspear style book in the box for both armies and Necrons having all the rules from their book in the codex when it drops a few weeks later.
The real question is if all the Necron updates in Pariah will also be in there.
Kanluwen wrote: Why would you think the updates from Pariah wouldn't be in any new codex?
Because if they release the codex and Pariah right next to each other and the extra Necron rules are in the codex it's either going to tick off Necron players who bought Pariah, or lead to less sales from those who only buy the books for the rules.
alextroy wrote: I have to wonder why people think GW will produce a new Codex Space Marines a year after the last codex...
Are you new to GW or is this sarcasm?
I'm not new to GW and I can't remember a time when any codex was replaced inside of a year. Unless it happened in 4th, I was out of the game at that time.
I am excited for the SM and Necron refresh and I am sure more models will be moving to legends as GW continues to squat more ranges. I will be more excited when they finally start doing this for Aeldari, but by that time the Primaris will be as big as the current Bobby G model.
Seriously though. Repackaging is coming and Necron warriors will be in a 5 man for $50 box. Maybe they will price them $10/wound instead of number of models.
Uriels_Flame wrote: I am excited for the SM and Necron refresh and I am sure more models will be moving to legends as GW continues to squat more ranges. I will be more excited when they finally start doing this for Aeldari, but by that time the Primaris will be as big as the current Bobby G model.
Seriously though. Repackaging is coming and Necron warriors will be in a 5 man for $50 box. Maybe they will price them $10/wound instead of number of models.
I'd expect Warriors to come in a 10 box for $60 which seems to be the standard for troops.
alextroy wrote: I have to wonder why people think GW will produce a new Codex Space Marines a year after the last codex...
Are you new to GW or is this sarcasm?
I'm not new to GW and I can't remember a time when any codex was replaced inside of a year. Unless it happened in 4th, I was out of the game at that time.
I think the shortest timeframe yet was 1.5 years
but, I can't remember if there ever was a faction which was part of the core box and did not get a new Codex
-vehicles shooting in CC replaces Overwatch
-Ruin terrain works like it does in apoc, making cover easier to gain but making it easier to assault terrain
-they return the "Hide" action allowing melee unuts to give up offensive action to mostly or entirely avoid being shot.
At least, based on their "9 things" hints thats what id love to see.
alextroy wrote: I have to wonder why people think GW will produce a new Codex Space Marines a year after the last codex...
Are you new to GW or is this sarcasm?
I'm not new to GW and I can't remember a time when any codex was replaced inside of a year. Unless it happened in 4th, I was out of the game at that time.
I think the shortest timeframe yet was 1.5 years
but, I can't remember if there ever was a faction which was part of the core box and did not get a new Codex
Some might say 5th Edition Orks count, since they got their codex 7 months before 5th edition was released. They weren't even the last codex released in 4th, if I'm getting my publication dates right (that would be Daemons).
alextroy wrote: I have to wonder why people think GW will produce a new Codex Space Marines a year after the last codex when they can just do either a Psychic Awakening-styple supplement or Shadowspear-style codex expansion for all the new units?.
Why? Isn't it obvious? Money.
Their time honoured method is keep chucking out new codexes to replace old ones and after that release yet another.
It's print me some money button. Better question is why wouldn't they push it?
alextroy wrote: I have to wonder why people think GW will produce a new Codex Space Marines a year after the last codex when they can just do either a Psychic Awakening-styple supplement or Shadowspear-style codex expansion for all the new units?.
Why? Isn't it obvious? Money.
Their time honoured method is keep chucking out new codexes to replace old ones and after that release yet another.
It's print me some money button. Better question is why wouldn't they push it?
I think someone on here mentioned that during the stream they mentioned some of the stuff about crusade was right out of the space marine codex. I don't remember that part myself, but maybe someone else who watched it can confirm.
I think it's pretty likely that we are getting new Dexes for both Necrons and SM. I think GW is trying to pivot to doing online updates more often, hence why they are offering the free digital copy now if you buy the hardcopy.
Some might say 5th Edition Orks count, since they got their codex 7 months before 5th edition was released. They weren't even the last codex released in 4th, if I'm getting my publication dates right (that would be Daemons).
4th Edition Ork Codex was the Prime example of what it means to be written with the next Editon in mind, it won't work in none of them
I'd expect Warriors to come in a 10 box for $60 which seems to be the standard for troops.
Ehhh...the 'standard for troops' is that there isn't really one.
True, I mean Cadians aren't that expensive (yet). But generally speaking the cost for troop unit boxes tend to be cheaper.
I wouldn't be shocked if the $60 pricetag for Necron Warriors doesn't happen BUT if it does? It would be similar to the Mortek Guard for Ossiarch Bonereapers, who were a box of 20 for $60.
The whole mess with Chainrasps was something that there was a looooooooooot of feedback on.
Some might say 5th Edition Orks count, since they got their codex 7 months before 5th edition was released. They weren't even the last codex released in 4th, if I'm getting my publication dates right (that would be Daemons).
4th Edition Ork Codex was the Prime example of what it means to be written with the next Editon in mind, it won't work in none of them
Which is why I have pointed out that they have said the esition was written in mind of the existing books.
The newsletter competition, which is where they are giving us the chance to get ahold of something from the awesome preview and new edition, has ten prizes..
I'm going to go ahead and say it.....marines are a mess, an absolute mess.
GW cannot keep adding and adding, without cutting at some point. So now we have all these new units to add, plus the ones from the earlier photo (landspeeder and new vehicle), and we're still not done with the Primaris "waves".
So, unless they are ready to release the new models in addition to the starter set, I don't see the codex coming right out the gate. And if they do, they need to just break it off as Primaris only.
I have heard others say that Codex:SM and Sisters were designed specifically with 9th in mind, so is an update needed so soon?
I don't know where I stand with it....as I started the post with, it's just a serious mess right now.
I feel paint colors determine the toyetic factor for a lot of GW's products. I mean look at anything in studio Ultramarine paint schemes. Toyetic as he'll. But once the community gets ahold of it they tend to add that darker feel to the models through less clean and bright schemes.
alextroy wrote: I have to wonder why people think GW will produce a new Codex Space Marines a year after the last codex when they can just do either a Psychic Awakening-styple supplement or Shadowspear-style codex expansion for all the new units?.
Why? Isn't it obvious? Money.
Their time honoured method is keep chucking out new codexes to replace old ones and after that release yet another.
It's print me some money button. Better question is why wouldn't they push it?
I think someone on here mentioned that during the stream they mentioned some of the stuff about crusade was right out of the space marine codex. I don't remember that part myself, but maybe someone else who watched it can confirm.
I think it's pretty likely that we are getting new Dexes for both Necrons and SM. I think GW is trying to pivot to doing online updates more often, hence why they are offering the free digital copy now if you buy the hardcopy.
About 1 Hour 5 into the stream where Pete foley etc are discussing the 9 changes animation.
I agree that Paint Scheme makes a huge difference in the way a model is perceived. But the size, shape, and proportion of the models has at least an equal impact on the overall look of a miniature. In the case of these new Necron models, it's the look on their "faces" that strikes me as being particularly cartoonish.
ClockworkZion wrote: I feel paint colors determine the toyetic factor for a lot of GW's products. I mean look at anything in studio Ultramarine paint schemes. Toyetic as he'll. But once the community gets ahold of it they tend to add that darker feel to the models through less clean and bright schemes.
alextroy wrote: I have to wonder why people think GW will produce a new Codex Space Marines a year after the last codex when they can just do either a Psychic Awakening-styple supplement or Shadowspear-style codex expansion for all the new units?.
Why? Isn't it obvious? Money.
Their time honoured method is keep chucking out new codexes to replace old ones and after that release yet another.
It's print me some money button. Better question is why wouldn't they push it?
I think someone on here mentioned that during the stream they mentioned some of the stuff about crusade was right out of the space marine codex. I don't remember that part myself, but maybe someone else who watched it can confirm.
I think it's pretty likely that we are getting new Dexes for both Necrons and SM. I think GW is trying to pivot to doing online updates more often, hence why they are offering the free digital copy now if you buy the hardcopy.
About 1 Hour 5 into the stream where Pete foley etc are discussing the 9 changes animation.
At 1:20 they mention that as they come across each faction they'll build on the core and do bespoke stuff for each faction - example a Space Marine character who gets too badly damaged can be interred in a Dreadnought.
Does suggest that they'll be "coming across" Marines pretty soon.
Norchack wrote: I agree that Paint Scheme makes a huge difference in the way a model is perceived. But the size, shape, and proportion of the models has at least an equal impact on the overall look of a miniature. In the case of these new Necron models, it's the look on their "faces" that strikes me as being particularly cartoonish.
ClockworkZion wrote: I feel paint colors determine the toyetic factor for a lot of GW's products. I mean look at anything in studio Ultramarine paint schemes. Toyetic as he'll. But once the community gets ahold of it they tend to add that darker feel to the models through less clean and bright schemes.
Are the Bonereapers Necrons in the mortal realms or are the Necrons Bonereapers in space?
Malika2 wrote: Hmm, isn't all this adding new stuff just to phase out the existing regular Space Marines?
It's what we all assume/expect ar this point. Minimarine legends.
Having two vast bloated ranges (three if you include HH) is not ideal if nothing else in terms of limited shelf space.
Now that units are coming out that older units can be proxied for - especially the bikes it may be that they slowly phase them out but I don't think they will whilst they are still selling.
Malika2 wrote: Hmm, isn't all this adding new stuff just to phase out the existing regular Space Marines?
It's what we all assume/expect ar this point. Minimarine legends.
They just have no enthusiasm left for regular marines is all. Kinda the natural side effect of going “check out these double marines!”, you instantly brand the older units as inferior and the newer ones as gimmicky, cheapening both.
I wouldn’t really assume anything about phasing out astartes from 40k until you have a decent decade of hindsight to see how they start scrambling to pull together their scattershot approach.
Malika2 wrote: Hmm, isn't all this adding new stuff just to phase out the existing regular Space Marines?
It's what we all assume/expect ar this point. Minimarine legends.
They just have no enthusiasm left for regular marines is all. Kinda the natural side effect of going “check out these double marines!”, you instantly brand the older units as inferior and the newer ones as gimmicky, cheapening both.
I wouldn’t really assume anything about phasing out astartes from 40k until you have a decent decade of hindsight to see how they start scrambling to pull together their scattershot approach.
Also they have completed the Marine range - unlike many other full Race factions they have a vast and often even units duplicated within the range.
Malika2 wrote: Hmm, isn't all this adding new stuff just to phase out the existing regular Space Marines?
They once again made a point of directly saying it isn't.
And...once again, you'd be an absolute fool to believe them. Old marines will be phased out, it just isn't going to happen in six months like some people predict.
1) They'll not get any new releases except the occasional character or named character. Example is the new librarian in terminator armour.
2) They'll slowly but surely get outclassed in the game to where points-wise and meta-wise you're better off with Primaris units.
3) In a while, and I mean...a long while, the kits will be retired. Many of the plastic kits are already 15-20+ years old, and while GW likes to let kits linger for up to 25 years, they simply won't be replacing them with new versions - ever.
This will happen, and to think otherwise is absolutely silly. However, GW isn't going to suddenly discontinue old marines overnight, and likely not for several years. Old marines will remain in the codex because millions of players around the world have them, and will have them for the foreseeable future.
Your old marines will be fine for another 10-15 years, easy...but it's likely their rules will continue to suck and they'll fade from the market and store slowly.
Norchack wrote: I agree that Paint Scheme makes a huge difference in the way a model is perceived. But the size, shape, and proportion of the models has at least an equal impact on the overall look of a miniature. In the case of these new Necron models, it's the look on their "faces" that strikes me as being particularly cartoonish.
I'd argue that they're less human in shape which makes the Crons feel even more alien.
Malika2 wrote: Hmm, isn't all this adding new stuff just to phase out the existing regular Space Marines?
It's what we all assume/expect ar this point. Minimarine legends.
They just have no enthusiasm left for regular marines is all. Kinda the natural side effect of going “check out these double marines!”, you instantly brand the older units as inferior and the newer ones as gimmicky, cheapening both.
I wouldn’t really assume anything about phasing out astartes from 40k until you have a decent decade of hindsight to see how they start scrambling to pull together their scattershot approach.
Also they have completed the Marine range - unlike many other full Race factions they have a vast and often even units duplicated within the range.
What else does the Marine range need?
Well they need 8 different kinds of veterans like what the old marines have... but in primaris flavor. Also classic marine devastators in primaris flavor. Maybe a predator in primaris hover tank flavor... god I wish they never opened the Pandora’s box of primaris marines...
A goood chunk of the Marine line is already no longer mandatory stock so them being pushed to direct only could happen over the next couple years to free up shelf space.
Danny76 wrote: I’m gonna assume the new starter is £120.
The newsletter competition, which is where they are giving us the chance to get ahold of something from the awesome preview and new edition, has ten prizes..
Each is the same £120 worth of prize.
As I can’t be bothered to type it again,
Particularly as they say it’s relevant to the new edition. Nothing else it could be..
Malika2 wrote: Hmm, isn't all this adding new stuff just to phase out the existing regular Space Marines?
They once again made a point of directly saying it isn't.
And...once again, you'd be an absolute fool to believe them. Old marines will be phased out, it just isn't going to happen in six months like some people predict.
1) They'll not get any new releases except the occasional character or named character. Example is the new librarian in terminator armour.
2) They'll slowly but surely get outclassed in the game to where points-wise and meta-wise you're better off with Primaris units.
3) In a while, and I mean...a long while, the kits will be retired. Many of the plastic kits are already 15-20+ years old, and while GW likes to let kits linger for up to 25 years, they simply won't be replacing them with new versions - ever.
This will happen, and to think otherwise is absolutely silly. However, GW isn't going to suddenly discontinue old marines overnight, and likely not for several years. Old marines will remain in the codex because millions of players around the world have them, and will have them for the foreseeable future.
Your old marines will be fine for another 10-15 years, easy...but it's likely their rules will continue to suck and they'll fade from the market and store slowly.
Are you aware the heresy sub-brand has immense financial leverage to exploit and next to no room for primaris to be shoehorned in?
I don’t think it’s a new Immortal kit, as we’ve seen those as they are in the big group image.
Spoiler:
I’m wondering if it might be an HQ. Squad leader type.
The guy in front of the walker on the right with the halberd type weapon has the same carapace and body design. No joke I think they are essentially Necron Lieutenant equivalents. Funny thing is, one is shooty and one is stabby just like the Dark Imperium Marines.
Danny76 wrote: I’m gonna assume the new starter is £120.
The newsletter competition, which is where they are giving us the chance to get ahold of something from the awesome preview and new edition, has ten prizes..
Each is the same £120 worth of prize.
As I can’t be bothered to type it again,
Particularly as they say it’s relevant to the new edition. Nothing else it could be..
Since Blood of the Phoenix was £140, wonder if that will make this new starter $200 USD.
I tried finding something exactly priced on the UK website but failed.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Also, I think it looks cooler, and it seems more brutal to not be mounted on a jet bike. Charging head first into the enemy, on a massive bike, weapons blazing, the mental image is better on a land based bike, you don't need agility if you're aiming to hit hard and from a straight line charge. The bikes can be bigger and sturdier as well with wheels, they'd have to be more sleek if they were jet bikes, again taking away from part of their potency, which would be hitting fast with a hell of a lot of mass.
Of course, the reason they're charging head first into the enemy is that the bike doesn't appear design to be able to steer...
Malika2 wrote: Hmm, isn't all this adding new stuff just to phase out the existing regular Space Marines?
They once again made a point of directly saying it isn't.
And...once again, you'd be an absolute fool to believe them. Old marines will be phased out, it just isn't going to happen in six months like some people predict.
1) They'll not get any new releases except the occasional character or named character. Example is the new librarian in terminator armour.
2) They'll slowly but surely get outclassed in the game to where points-wise and meta-wise you're better off with Primaris units.
3) In a while, and I mean...a long while, the kits will be retired. Many of the plastic kits are already 15-20+ years old, and while GW likes to let kits linger for up to 25 years, they simply won't be replacing them with new versions - ever.
This will happen, and to think otherwise is absolutely silly. However, GW isn't going to suddenly discontinue old marines overnight, and likely not for several years. Old marines will remain in the codex because millions of players around the world have them, and will have them for the foreseeable future.
Your old marines will be fine for another 10-15 years, easy...but it's likely their rules will continue to suck and they'll fade from the market and store slowly.
So you agree they're not being phased out
10+ years and 5+ editions from now does not matter
ClockworkZion wrote: I feel paint colors determine the toyetic factor for a lot of GW's products. I mean look at anything in studio Ultramarine paint schemes. Toyetic as he'll. But once the community gets ahold of it they tend to add that darker feel to the models through less clean and bright schemes.
The Black Templar paint scheme makes the Primaris models look 1000x better in my opinion.
ClockworkZion wrote: I feel paint colors determine the toyetic factor for a lot of GW's products. I mean look at anything in studio Ultramarine paint schemes. Toyetic as he'll. But once the community gets ahold of it they tend to add that darker feel to the models through less clean and bright schemes.
The Black Templar paint scheme makes the Primaris models look 1000x better in my opinion.
Definitely. Having a more subdued and good contrast colour scheme like BT really help emphasize the sleeker aspects of the Primaris models without going into the Hasbro valley feel.
I feel like they may go the stormcast chamber route with Primaris.
Chamber 1: The first stormcast aka the first primaris. This was before they had refined the direction they were going to take the models. Both ranges are just basic models which look good but lack a clear direction or theme.
Chamber 2: The Vanguard Stormcast and the Vanguard Primaris. Both with less armor and more emphasis on speed/stealth. You can use these new models with your previous force, or you could make a wholey vanguard force.
Chamber 3: Whatever the magic stormcast from the new boxset were called. And these assault primaris. Although the chainsword intercessors look generic, they all have the new "crux dominatus" symbol on their forearms. Which tie them directly to the rest of the line, the more ornate bladeguard brethern and HQ, who also feature that symbol pretty heavily.
(I know there are other chambers, like Draconis, but they're releases are smaller. I think the above examples work better for my theory)
Malika2 wrote: Hmm, isn't all this adding new stuff just to phase out the existing regular Space Marines?
They once again made a point of directly saying it isn't.
And...once again, you'd be an absolute fool to believe them. Old marines will be phased out, it just isn't going to happen in six months like some people predict.
1) They'll not get any new releases except the occasional character or named character. Example is the new librarian in terminator armour.
2) They'll slowly but surely get outclassed in the game to where points-wise and meta-wise you're better off with Primaris units.
3) In a while, and I mean...a long while, the kits will be retired. Many of the plastic kits are already 15-20+ years old, and while GW likes to let kits linger for up to 25 years, they simply won't be replacing them with new versions - ever.
This will happen, and to think otherwise is absolutely silly. However, GW isn't going to suddenly discontinue old marines overnight, and likely not for several years. Old marines will remain in the codex because millions of players around the world have them, and will have them for the foreseeable future.
Your old marines will be fine for another 10-15 years, easy...but it's likely their rules will continue to suck and they'll fade from the market and store slowly.
So you agree they're not being phased out
10+ years and 5+ editions from now does not matter
I truly believe this new edition will be the end of the (Old) one wound marines. Both your points are valid, but I think the timeframe for 10+ is being very generous. We haven’t seen the story so far for “War of the Spider” or “Pariah” but I have a sneaking suspicion that these storylines will have some lasting impact on the future of the “Olderines”. (I’m trademarking that!) Since Dark Imperium came out, the storyline has already progressed to this point over 200+ years. Obviously life expectancy in the 40K verse is short and brutal. Attrition takes its toll. The writers and designers have this in mind. When those Primaris speeders and predators come out (probably at release of 9th), it will have come full circle. The writing is on the wall. GW isn’t making regular marine stuff anymore. Models are being retired to make way for the new. Obsolescence.
I have an entire company of Olderines Ultramarines , so I’m going to play as much as I can with mine. I’ll be obsolete soon according to my Gene-father Robbie G.
StarFyre wrote: surprised they havent made terminator primaris yes. they would look so cool.
sanjay
Don’t aggressors kind of fit that?
Lorewise they fit the same role, but people love Terminators. I could see a better proportioned Terminator design releasing in the future, but not in the near future.
I’m almost scared that the traditional MEQ is going to be overshadowed by primaris... right after they got through being inferior to hordes. Also kind of hoping (very selfishly) that the meta floods with d2 primarikillers so my chaos space marines have some sort of advantage over them... part of me wouldn’t mind also if primaris marines were eventually just normal tru-scale marines and loyalists get their infinite options stunted. If I could run chosen as several types of highly specialized specialists without having to pay an arm and a leg for bits like noize boiz or zerkerz, I would be happy. Codex: Disco lord and dinobots: roll out is getting kind of stale for me. As is codex Abby and however many heavy weapons you can fit in this list and his bubble.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I totally get why my personal opinion is a complete nightmare for the majority and why it shouldn’t be.
macluvin wrote: I’m almost scared that the traditional MEQ is going to be overshadowed by primaris... right after they got through being inferior to hordes. Also kind of hoping (very selfishly) that the meta floods with d2 primarikillers so my chaos space marines have some sort of advantage over them... part of me wouldn’t mind also if primaris marines were eventually just normal tru-scale marines and loyalists get their infinite options stunted. If I could run chosen as several types of highly specialized specialists without having to pay an arm and a leg for bits like noize boiz or zerkerz, I would be happy. Codex: Disco lord and dinobots: roll out is getting kind of stale for me. As is codex Abby and however many heavy weapons you can fit in this list and his bubble.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I totally get why my personal opinion is a complete nightmare for the majority and why it shouldn’t be.
CSM are on the cusp of being good. They just need better legion rules and I'd argue that marks should alter the statline again.
Some really nice models there. Not too keen on the bling bling overload on some primaris there since I do prefer the clean look of the armour. With that said when the detail VS clean armour balance is reached you get some really well designed models. The new Judiciar does that for me. Damn good model.
macluvin wrote: I’m almost scared that the traditional MEQ is going to be overshadowed by primaris... right after they got through being inferior to hordes. Also kind of hoping (very selfishly) that the meta floods with d2 primarikillers so my chaos space marines have some sort of advantage over them... part of me wouldn’t mind also if primaris marines were eventually just normal tru-scale marines and loyalists get their infinite options stunted. If I could run chosen as several types of highly specialized specialists without having to pay an arm and a leg for bits like noize boiz or zerkerz, I would be happy. Codex: Disco lord and dinobots: roll out is getting kind of stale for me. As is codex Abby and however many heavy weapons you can fit in this list and his bubble.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I totally get why my personal opinion is a complete nightmare for the majority and why it shouldn’t be.
CSM are on the cusp of being good. They just need better legion rules and I'd argue that marks should alter the statline again.
I would be so cool with better legion traits and marks of chaos doing stuff besides unlocking stratagems. I mean 11ppm meq’s are not bad per se. I just wish we could have legitimately more powerful marines swelling with the power of chaos and the warp but at least they finally did SOMETHING about a chaos space marine being literally a space marine with less war gear options (back when grav was the beez neez) and crappier/no legion/chapter traits...
Norchack wrote: I agree that Paint Scheme makes a huge difference in the way a model is perceived. But the size, shape, and proportion of the models has at least an equal impact on the overall look of a miniature. In the case of these new Necron models, it's the look on their "faces" that strikes me as being particularly cartoonish.
I'd argue that they're less human in shape which makes the Crons feel even more alien.
Though they certainly look less human, they also look cartoonish. Those two aren't mutually exclusive.
ok so my take was, if they also made terminators (just updates of the existing ones), its easier for them to get rid of the older line and long run, just use primaris adn rebalance them as THE marines.
Ouze wrote: I have to say, that robe is bugging me. Why is it under his chest armor, but over his pants? All the way in or all the way out, bro.
I assume it's the robe he wears everyday, so it's not sized to fit over his armour, so the chestplate it buckled in place over it.
He has belly armour. It's over the top of his belly armour, and underneath his chest armour. It's woven between the two. It's quite silly.
The gut plates could be part of the soft armour undersuit. We know Phobos is a stripped down version of the Tacticus armour, and the plates could be part of that soft armour instead of the torso armour.
So he's sacrificing hard plate for the sake of this robe? Skeptical.
macluvin wrote: I’m almost scared that the traditional MEQ is going to be overshadowed by primaris... right after they got through being inferior to hordes. Also kind of hoping (very selfishly) that the meta floods with d2 primarikillers so my chaos space marines have some sort of advantage over them... part of me wouldn’t mind also if primaris marines were eventually just normal tru-scale marines and loyalists get their infinite options stunted. If I could run chosen as several types of highly specialized specialists without having to pay an arm and a leg for bits like noize boiz or zerkerz, I would be happy. Codex: Disco lord and dinobots: roll out is getting kind of stale for me. As is codex Abby and however many heavy weapons you can fit in this list and his bubble.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I totally get why my personal opinion is a complete nightmare for the majority and why it shouldn’t be.
CSM are on the cusp of being good. They just need better legion rules and I'd argue that marks should alter the statline again.
I would be so cool with better legion traits and marks of chaos doing stuff besides unlocking stratagems. I mean 11ppm meq’s are not bad per se. I just wish we could have legitimately more powerful marines swelling with the power of chaos and the warp but at least they finally did SOMETHING about a chaos space marine being literally a space marine with less war gear options (back when grav was the beez neez) and crappier/no legion/chapter traits...
Exactly my thought too. Make Chaos Undivided the default (+1 attack) and let them trade that for other buffs (S, T, WS, a 6++ or +1 to invul) and we can even work it into the points cost at base.
Norchack wrote: I agree that Paint Scheme makes a huge difference in the way a model is perceived. But the size, shape, and proportion of the models has at least an equal impact on the overall look of a miniature. In the case of these new Necron models, it's the look on their "faces" that strikes me as being particularly cartoonish.
I'd argue that they're less human in shape which makes the Crons feel even more alien.
Though they certainly look less human, they also look cartoonish. Those two aren't mutually exclusive.
True, but I feel paint scheme is more to blame than the shape of the head for any "cartoon" effect people are getting.
Ouze wrote: I have to say, that robe is bugging me. Why is it under his chest armor, but over his pants? All the way in or all the way out, bro.
I assume it's the robe he wears everyday, so it's not sized to fit over his armour, so the chestplate it buckled in place over it.
He has belly armour. It's over the top of his belly armour, and underneath his chest armour. It's woven between the two. It's quite silly.
The gut plates could be part of the soft armour undersuit. We know Phobos is a stripped down version of the Tacticus armour, and the plates could be part of that soft armour instead of the torso armour.
So he's sacrificing hard plate for the sake of this robe? Skeptical.
Phobos still gives a 3+ so it's not like it's a negative for him to do so.
On Robes and the 41st millennium; Cadian pattern uniforms are woven from Kevlar-equivalent tight-weave ballistic cloth so there’s no reason a Space Marine’s (or Sister of Battle’s) robe can’t be made of the same stuff, probably even with more layers because power armour.
That is in fact one of the key things with Imperial technology; just because it looks impractical that doesn’t mean it serves no purpose.
Yeah, if we can make cloth bullet proof, so could they 39000 years later.
Just because the memes say the IoM is primitive and backwards, doesn't mean they are.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yeah, if we can make cloth bullet proof, so could they 39000 years later.
Just because the memes say the IoM is primitive and backwards, doesn't mean they are.
Even their primitive and backward tech is lightyears aheadnof ours.
Ouze wrote: I have to say, that robe is bugging me. Why is it under his chest armor, but over his pants? All the way in or all the way out, bro.
I assume it's the robe he wears everyday, so it's not sized to fit over his armour, so the chestplate it buckled in place over it.
He has belly armour. It's over the top of his belly armour, and underneath his chest armour. It's woven between the two. It's quite silly.
The gut plates could be part of the soft armour undersuit. We know Phobos is a stripped down version of the Tacticus armour, and the plates could be part of that soft armour instead of the torso armour.
So he's sacrificing hard plate for the sake of this robe? Skeptical.
Phobos still gives a 3+ so it's not like it's a negative for him to do so.
Yeah that makes no sense. SM armour is the best they can make it. But they can also make it better by removing a lot of it, in the case of phobos, and having less of it increases stealth / agility attributes but doesn't decrease toughness.
Anyway, for the sake of not wanting to continue the debate I'll accept that this mark of SM armour is mostly standard Tactitus plate, but with a Phobos stomach plate (which is as good as a standard on for protection, despite being not there, and being just an undersuit) for the sake of fitting on his over-gut, under-cuirass tabbard (which is prolly bullet proof ballistic cloth, despite any evidence to indicate).
Cloth that is impenetrable to a bullet seems like such a waste of resources to a Gaurdsman... even if it stops the bullet the force will still punch straight through and either cause massive internal bleeding, or if it’s just a sheet of bulletproof cloth, the bullet would still enter their skin with a piece of cloth keeping the metal from contacting the blood basically... it’s basically just a bullet condom. A marine would be able to shrug that sort of punishment off.
ClockworkZion wrote: I feel paint colors determine the toyetic factor for a lot of GW's products. I mean look at anything in studio Ultramarine paint schemes. Toyetic as he'll. But once the community gets ahold of it they tend to add that darker feel to the models through less clean and bright schemes.
The Black Templar paint scheme makes the Primaris models look 1000x better in my opinion.
I would go further and say almost any other chapter looks better. I have always hated Ultramarines being the poster boy chapter as their color scheme is just so... lame. It's just blue. Plain blue. Everything is blue.
Still better than their fluff though. 'Jack of all trades, masters of tactics, also masters of everything else.'
ClockworkZion wrote: I feel paint colors determine the toyetic factor for a lot of GW's products. I mean look at anything in studio Ultramarine paint schemes. Toyetic as he'll. But once the community gets ahold of it they tend to add that darker feel to the models through less clean and bright schemes.
The Black Templar paint scheme makes the Primaris models look 1000x better in my opinion.
I would go further and say almost any other chapter looks better. I have always hated Ultramarines being the poster boy chapter as their color scheme is just so... lame. It's just blue. Plain blue. Everything is blue.
Still better than their fluff though. 'Jack of all trades, masters of tactics, also masters of everything else.'
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if they one day transition. Look at the new Necron. I imagine most of the range will be repainted with the bronze look. Mainly because it looks good and not very Terminatory. The real question will be if we'll see a bronze Trazyn or Imotekh
Another example would be the Tau. They were always shown off with the orange color scheme before the white color scheme replaced them. And some of the Eldar stuff is getting Ynnari-ed. The question would be what would replace Ultramarines? Crimson Fist are blue, but were also poster boys once. Shame Guiliman is the Ultramarines primarch, so that'll be keeping them in the limelight for the next few years.
Scrolling through the Instagram showed someone doing a Photoshop of the current Primaris Chaplain's head on our Loyalist Executioner and that looked pretty darn good in case you needed some inspiration.
So something I noticed is that "judicate" means "to judge" and with the Judicator carrying an Executioner's sword I guess GW is saying he is Judge, Jury and Executioner in one.
I'm fairly convinced they'll be retconned to normal marines at some point, or they'll just drop the primaris word at some point and let the fluff reconcile itself as time goes on.
Tactical marines will be used in an interchangeable fashion with intercessors, bolt rifles will be interchangeable as bolters.
Maybe next edition it will start.
As an interim, I could see them potentially start to combine entries - tactical/assault/devastator/Bike squads could all be combined with their Primaris equivalents, with the Primaris upgrade a bought option for the unit. It would take some minor tweaking here and there, but the larger the Primaris range grows, the more impractical it becomes to keep both old and new marines in the one book as separate units. They either need to combine them, drop some old units, or split them out into a Primaris-specific codex.
ClockworkZion wrote: So something I noticed is that "judicate" means "to judge" and with the Judicator carrying an Executioner's sword I guess GW is saying he is Judge, Jury and Executioner in one.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I would go further and say almost any other chapter looks better. I have always hated Ultramarines being the poster boy chapter as their color scheme is just so... lame. It's just blue. Plain blue. Everything is blue.
Still better than their fluff though. 'Jack of all trades, masters of tactics, also masters of everything else.'
I gotta agree with you here.
It's a blue color that reminds me of Duplo blocks, or some kinda preschool kids' toy. It's just that generic 'meh' blue. It kills me.
Well... I'll be. I hate being mostly right when making toungue in cheek ironic prediction.
However, the necrons seem to be getting a BUCKLOAD of stuff. At least some xenos are getting models and a lot of models at that!
A lot to unpack....
I didint manage to watch the whole thing live, but, I was immediately concerned as the very first thing said was something along the lines of "Well we wont beat a round the bush. We have a new edition. We were able to implement all the crazy ideas we had. It seems we gate a crazy idea every 60 seconds" - Having to bring 4 mostly uselesss book to a game makes sense plus having FAQ to FAQs makes perfect sense now... I mean can they really not see a problem with this approach... ugh...
But at least some sort of battle scribe type app is on the horizon. Maybe even some sort of living ruleset/Digital codex that will get FAQ within 2 weeks to go with the physical codex which is essentially incorrect after 2 week because of the "we have a wacky idea every 60 seconds" approach..
On the aesthetic front:
1. Logo - hate it. I'm in half a mind to try and get a petition going to bring it back. It was timeless. I really dislike the new logo... I thought it would grow on me but its just so bland and lame... YMMV.
3. Gothic'ed up Primarines - Really like those guys! Not sure abotu the chaplain chaosy looking dudes.. But at least it seems like 40k again. (Too bad about the logo..)
4. Non symetrical tripod Necron.. Ohh boy... For the love.. Thats gotta be the worse model ive seen GW make since I started back up in the hobby. Yieks...!
I certainly wont be starting a new army or buying any new books now. Was considering get the harlequin and DE books but might as well wait for the new Codexes.. Its going to be an expensive year it seems.
To all those who dug their heels in and said 9th edition is happening I guess I owe an apology for thinking you're bonkers. GW really are that dumb.. Good luck selling those PA /WDPA books lol.
The problem is GW doesn't break up the solid blue colour scheme enough. It would look a lot nicer if they had the pauldrons white with gold trim, gold knee pads. More bling.
They also don't do enough to make the blue pop. It's very flat.
That being said, Black Templars all the way. Best scheme, best chapter.
The problem is GW doesn't break up the solid blue colour scheme enough. It would look a lot nicer if they had the pauldrons white with gold trim, gold knee pads. More bling.
They also don't do enough to make the blue pop. It's very flat.
That being said, Black Templars all the way. Best scheme, best chapter.
Personally much prefer Black Templar look but each to their own.
The chaos looking chaplain dudes im not sold on. Seems like some sort of heretical stuff going on
The problem is GW doesn't break up the solid blue colour scheme enough. It would look a lot nicer if they had the pauldrons white with gold trim, gold knee pads. More bling.
They also don't do enough to make the blue pop. It's very flat.
That being said, Black Templars all the way. Best scheme, best chapter.
Ultramarines with more bling ???
Let's agree to disagree on this one I am not certain either that's the necrons were the one in a dire need of so many new kits but... it's always nice to have ! I'm super happy for the new warriors, they really feel the same but better
I'm fairly convinced they'll be retconned to normal marines at some point, or they'll just drop the primaris word at some point and let the fluff reconcile itself as time goes on.
Tactical marines will be used in an interchangeable fashion with intercessors, bolt rifles will be interchangeable as bolters.
Maybe next edition it will start.
As an interim, I could see them potentially start to combine entries - tactical/assault/devastator/Bike squads could all be combined with their Primaris equivalents, with the Primaris upgrade a bought option for the unit. It would take some minor tweaking here and there, but the larger the Primaris range grows, the more impractical it becomes to keep both old and new marines in the one book as separate units. They either need to combine them, drop some old units, or split them out into a Primaris-specific codex.
Again, this feels like the natural progression of the marine line.
Canonically most(?) chapters should be using the Primaris method when creating new space marines, right? That means the current breed of marine would eventually peter out as their like are not being replenished, not to mention the ones that are crossing the Rubicon Primaris.
Eventually there wont be a need for qualifying Space Marines as specifically being primaris or not as they will all be primaris.
So too with the GW product lines. Though to be clear, I feel that's still many years off.
My best case scenario is a revamp of pre-primaris marine kits to be in line with the Space Marine Heroes series of miniatures.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: [ I'm fairly convinced they'll be retconned to normal marines at some point, or they'll just drop the primaris word at some point and let the fluff reconcile itself as time goes on.
Tactical marines will be used in an interchangeable fashion with intercessors, bolt rifles will be interchangeable as bolters.
Maybe next edition it will start.
I do not think we will see a retcon because of the Horus Heresy. The firstborns are so entrenched in that lore. My gut is telling me that 9th will be the final edition of 1W marines. The final campaign GW will kill off all the remaining firstborns and characters who did not cross the rubicon.
GW will eventually redo their normal marine units as primaris scale.
You'll be using primaris tacticals.
But because everything will be primaris, any marine model you deploy will be primaris.
The evidence is in the upcoming releases - the assault marines and bikers look like updates of existing normal units , but because they've created this primaris narrative they've had to release them that way.
We'll get primaris tactical squads and devestator squads eventually and the replacement will be complete.
Huh. Dark Imperium starter is already last chance to buy.
Didn't think that would happen quite that fast, given the release backlog that needs to be worked through
Hellebore wrote: GW will eventually redo their normal marine units as primaris scale.
You'll be using primaris tacticals.
But because everything will be primaris, any marine model you deploy will be primaris.
The evidence is in the upcoming releases - the assault marines and bikers look like updates of existing normal units , but because they've created this primaris narrative they've had to release them that way.
We'll get primaris tactical squads and devestator squads eventually and the replacement will be complete.
Maybe they will just side step the issue and we'll all move on as if the Primaris thing never happened and they were just normal marines all along. Once they all the same size.. They will just be marines am I right.
Voss wrote: Huh. Dark Imperium starter is already last chance to buy.
Didn't think that would happen quite that fast, given the release backlog that needs to be worked through
Being a starter box, they probably have a massive stockpile still. LCTB means they won't make any more, but also helps them shift what they already have.
Eldarain wrote: And shift it to start collecting Death Guard and possibly Primaris.
Honestly I really wish they'd do that with more box sets. It'd make it easier to get exclusive models and the sets could be sold cheaper than a full multi-part set would be.
Right now, one of the most popular games is Kill-Team.
I'm wondering if we'll see it revamped. I mean, it's fine the way it is- it's completely independent of 40k proper. But since they mentioned that the game would be re-balanced for every scale... I wonder if that'll mean we'll see some kind of Kill-Team option in the core rulebook for that.
Likely not, but wishful thinking. A Kill-Team game with some of the Crusade rules could be a decent enough start to making a pretty fun campaign game.
Eldarain wrote: And shift it to start collecting Death Guard and possibly Primaris.
Honestly I really wish they'd do that with more box sets. It'd make it easier to get exclusive models and the sets could be sold cheaper than a full multi-part set would be.
It makes sense to me for them to get some more life out of the investment.
Some precedence as well between the original AoS starter set and more recently Shadowspear. They even brought back Black Reach in a way with the Vedros sets.
Right now, one of the most popular games is Kill-Team.
I'm wondering if we'll see it revamped. I mean, it's fine the way it is- it's completely independent of 40k proper. But since they mentioned that the game would be re-balanced for every scale... I wonder if that'll mean we'll see some kind of Kill-Team option in the core rulebook for that.
Likely not, but wishful thinking. A Kill-Team game with some of the Crusade rules could be a decent enough start to making a pretty fun campaign game.
What happens to Kill Team? Absolutely nothing. It’s still there, and it’s still great. Kill
Team is its own rules set, so it isn’t affected by changes
to the main Warhammer 40,000 game. However, with new
editions come new models, and several of these will be
infiltrating their way into Killzones in the near future (...and
the far future).
What happens to Kill Team? Absolutely nothing. It’s still there, and it’s still great. Kill
Team is its own rules set, so it isn’t affected by changes
to the main Warhammer 40,000 game. However, with new
editions come new models, and several of these will be
infiltrating their way into Killzones in the near future (...and
the far future).
Kinda what I figured. I mean, I'm still standing by the theory that 8th Edition was basically a public beta for 9th Edition and this was planned all along- so a lot of the rules aren't really changing that much, 9th is pretty much just a series of 'lessons learned' from 8th.
However, I've been dancing with GW long enough to know how they'll operate.
If they think there's a good enough reason to slightly modify 9th Edition rules to make a new Kill-Team, they'll certainly do it. After all, most of it is a copy/paste job anyway.
Regarding the new rules for vehicles in cc: will they be able to fire all their guns into cc like pistols? Or will it be similar to the "Steel Behemoth" rule for super heavy tanks? I.E. a Leman Russ could fire its sponson weapons into cc but its turret weapon would have to target models more than 1 away? And since rules like that are one of the things that made super heavys better than normal vehicles will they get some other ability to make up for everything else having it?
I wonder if the new rules will fix dumb rules like plasma guns exploding more often at night.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Likely not, but wishful thinking. A Kill-Team game with some of the Crusade rules could be a decent enough start to making a pretty fun campaign game.
Maybe they revamp KT with a new expansion - Kill-Team: Crusade.
Basically take the Crusade rules, whatever they may be, and adapt them to the existing KT rules. Include other things that might help KT, like 9th's expanded terrain rules or whatever, in the same book.
ClockworkZion wrote: I feel paint colors determine the toyetic factor for a lot of GW's products. I mean look at anything in studio Ultramarine paint schemes. Toyetic as he'll. But once the community gets ahold of it they tend to add that darker feel to the models through less clean and bright schemes.
The Black Templar paint scheme makes the Primaris models look 1000x better in my opinion.
I would go further and say almost any other chapter looks better. I have always hated Ultramarines being the poster boy chapter as their color scheme is just so... lame. It's just blue. Plain blue. Everything is blue.
Still better than their fluff though. 'Jack of all trades, masters of tactics, also masters of everything else.'
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if they one day transition. Look at the new Necron. I imagine most of the range will be repainted with the bronze look. Mainly because it looks good and not very Terminatory. The real question will be if we'll see a bronze Trazyn or Imotekh
Another example would be the Tau. They were always shown off with the orange color scheme before the white color scheme replaced them. And some of the Eldar stuff is getting Ynnari-ed. The question would be what would replace Ultramarines? Crimson Fist are blue, but were also poster boys once. Shame Guiliman is the Ultramarines primarch, so that'll be keeping them in the limelight for the next few years.
They reason the studio paints a very simplistic Ultramarines colourscheme is Marines are supposed to be the starter army, painting good looking high detail black, Yellow, White is way more challenging for most new players.
The only other army they are likely to change it to is Salamanders, though that would probably require vulkan making an appearance.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Maybe they revamp KT with a new expansion - Kill-Team: Crusade.
Basically take the Crusade rules, whatever they may be, and adapt them to the existing KT rules. Include other things that might help KT, like 9th's expanded terrain rules or whatever, in the same book.
That would be very cool. Well, depending on how in-depth the Crusade system goes. I try not to get too hyped up about things, because GW said that Kill-Team would have a campaign system similar to Necromunda. And if you take some potent barbiturates, squint, and have recently sustained a head injury- at a passing glance at 70 MPH they are similar. So, for all I know this campaign system could be an afterthought some employee came up with and jotted down on a notecard while he was curling out a turd after lunch.
Hellebore wrote: GW will eventually redo their normal marine units as primaris scale.
You'll be using primaris tacticals.
But because everything will be primaris, any marine model you deploy will be primaris.
The evidence is in the upcoming releases - the assault marines and bikers look like updates of existing normal units , but because they've created this primaris narrative they've had to release them that way.
We'll get primaris tactical squads and devestator squads eventually and the replacement will be complete.
Maybe they will just side step the issue and we'll all move on as if the Primaris thing never happened and they were just normal marines all along. Once they all the same size.. They will just be marines am I right.
I mean, I fully expect there to be only 2 wound marine model rules in the game in a few years. So I will be able to use my older marine models as primaris because they'll be the only kind of marine with rules and unless GW is going to start banning models that are a certain age, every space marine deployed from then on will effectively be a primaris marine because there won't be another profile to confuse them with.
The only reason I can see them keeping relic 1W marine units around is to deliberately make them suck, but keep their profile so it's harder for people to 'counts as' them as primaris marines....
Gadzilla666 wrote: Regarding the new rules for vehicles in cc: will they be able to fire all their guns into cc like pistols? Or will it be similar to the "Steel Behemoth" rule for super heavy tanks? I.E. a Leman Russ could fire its sponson weapons into cc but its turret weapon would have to target models more than 1 away? And since rules like that are one of the things that made super heavys better than normal vehicles will they get some other ability to make up for everything else having it?
I expect turret weapons at least to be able to fire out of CC, mainly because it makes zero sense to shoot a battle cannon within a foot or two of your own tank (if that is even possible due to the angle etc).
If you are only able to shoot at the unit engaged in close combat, some tanks will gain hardly any benefit at all, a predator annihilator for example, good look killing those grots with 4 lascannon shots. This may be a mute point though, as it seemed to show in the graphics that tanks could just run over the infantry units, so we may see a form of tank shock return where tanks can just leave combat at will, causing damage to the infantry unit.
Hellebore wrote: GW will eventually redo their normal marine units as primaris scale.
You'll be using primaris tacticals.
But because everything will be primaris, any marine model you deploy will be primaris.
The evidence is in the upcoming releases - the assault marines and bikers look like updates of existing normal units , but because they've created this primaris narrative they've had to release them that way.
We'll get primaris tactical squads and devestator squads eventually and the replacement will be complete.
Sure. But the only reason they did create the Primars narrative was so the old Marines would not be discontinued or immediately be replaced by comparable Primaris releases.
You can still use your old Marine bikers either on their own or together with Primaris bikers. That's literally the only reason the Primaris narrative exists. So that things like the old Marine bikes aren't insta-squatted but get a nice long sunset of many, many years for fans/collecters of these models.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Regarding the new rules for vehicles in cc: will they be able to fire all their guns into cc like pistols? Or will it be similar to the "Steel Behemoth" rule for super heavy tanks? I.E. a Leman Russ could fire its sponson weapons into cc but its turret weapon would have to target models more than 1 away? And since rules like that are one of the things that made super heavys better than normal vehicles will they get some other ability to make up for everything else having it?
I expect turret weapons at least to be able to fire out of CC, mainly because it makes zero sense to shoot a battle cannon within a foot or two of your own tank (if that is even possible due to the angle etc).
If you are only able to shoot at the unit engaged in close combat, some tanks will gain hardly any benefit at all, a predator annihilator for example, good look killing those grots with 4 lascannon shots. This may be a mute point though, as it seemed to show in the graphics that tanks could just run over the infantry units, so we may see a form of tank shock return where tanks can just leave combat at will, causing damage to the infantry unit.
Tank Shock returning would be nice. And Thunderblitz for super heavy tanks too would be great!
Hellebore wrote: GW will eventually redo their normal marine units as primaris scale.
You'll be using primaris tacticals.
But because everything will be primaris, any marine model you deploy will be primaris.
The evidence is in the upcoming releases - the assault marines and bikers look like updates of existing normal units , but because they've created this primaris narrative they've had to release them that way.
We'll get primaris tactical squads and devestator squads eventually and the replacement will be complete.
Sure. But the only reason they did create the Primars narrative was so the old Marines would not be discontinued or immediately be replaced by comparable Primaris releases.
You can still use your old Marine bikers either on their own or together with Primaris bikers. That's literally the only reason the Primaris narrative exists. So that things like the old Marine bikes aren't insta-squatted but get a nice long sunset of many, many years for fans/collecters of these models.
I don't think so. They never needed a narrative of any kind, they could have just released new marines in a different scale, they've been doing that for decades anyway, this wasn't something new. They've never needed a story reason why they made marines bigger than the older models before.
If they'd just released them as 'new' marine models with new weapon options, and made all marines W2 then you could have used your old marines alongside them regardless, because they all counted as the same thing.
The reason they DIDN'T go this route, was because it didn't compel existing marine players to buy the new models. The primaris concept is entirely there to ensure there's a division between old and new models so that existing marine players are pushed towards re-buying their own army all over again.
In 5 years when every marine unit is replaced with primaris models and all marine rules are primaris rules, then it won't matter if you deploy a 2006 tactical marine squad or a 2022 primaris tactical squad. Because they'll be using the same rules.
What they will have done though, is ensured that they squeezed twice the cash out of players by convincing them to rebuy their own army back, when in 5 years it won't matter because the models will all have the same rules anyway.
alextroy wrote: I have to wonder why people think GW will produce a new Codex Space Marines a year after the last codex when they can just do either a Psychic Awakening-styple supplement or Shadowspear-style codex expansion for all the new units?
I remember my first game of 40k... I thought my chaos space marines were bad hombres. Then I played tau in 7th... all they did was explode and run away... then 8th happened right before I was about to invest in traitor legions... and now 9th is happening. Here’s to not watching my dudes explode and run away in 9th! Glad I was separated from my hobby for almost all of 8th. I think it is going to live up to its expectations relative to 8th, as in it will be an improvement and a step in the right direction. They at least are acknowledging the community’s complaints about the rules.
I don't think so. They never needed a narrative of any kind, they could have just released new marines in a different scale, they've been doing that for decades anyway, this wasn't something new. They've never needed a story reason why they made marines bigger than the older models before.
If they'd just released them as 'new' marine models with new weapon options, and made all marines W2 then you could have used your old marines alongside them regardless, because they all counted as the same thing.
The reason they DIDN'T go this route, was because it didn't compel existing marine players to buy the new models. The primaris concept is entirely there to ensure there's a division between old and new models so that existing marine players are pushed towards re-buying their own army all over again.
In 5 years when every marine unit is replaced with primaris models and all marine rules are primaris rules, then it won't matter if you deploy a 2006 tactical marine squad or a 2022 primaris tactical squad. Because they'll be using the same rules.
What they will have done though, is ensured that they squeezed twice the cash out of players by convincing them to rebuy their own army back, when in 5 years it won't matter because the models will all have the same rules anyway.
Well, if they hadn't invented "primaris", the ol Tactical Marine miniatures would've been obsolete 3 years ago. The only reason it's still around and viable to play with (with or without a collector adding Primaris), despite all the 2017 scaremongers "predicting" it would go away, is because the new models are "primaris" and GW added a lore reason to have both (if you want).
If Tactical Marines get phased out in 5 years (and I think it'll probably be more), that'd be 8 years you get to play with them over and beyond all the fearmonger claims that they would soon be squatted due to Primaris (which they probably would've been, if Intercessors had simply been the "new tactical").
8 years is far and away more than most miniature games ever last (not to mention individual miniatures from other companies' miniatures games remain viable). If "Primaris" get's people 8 years of extra playtime (probably more) out of old miniatures, that's fantastic (and very much worth the somewhat bumpy narrative), not to mention the pretty hard slap in the face of all the idiots proclaiming the end of old Marines since early 2017.
Eldarain wrote: And shift it to start collecting Death Guard and possibly Primaris.
Honestly I really wish they'd do that with more box sets. It'd make it easier to get exclusive models and the sets could be sold cheaper than a full multi-part set would be.
It makes sense to me for them to get some more life out of the investment.
Some precedence as well between the original AoS starter set and more recently Shadowspear. They even brought back Black Reach in a way with the Vedros sets.
I'd like to see a reprint of ABR, they did it with dark vengence,
Not because GW has actually planned to do him, but because GW is basically picking up the most popular rumors from the last years and makes them come true
Not because GW has actually planned to do him, but because GW is basically picking up the most popular rumors from the last years and makes them come true
Something gnawing at me tells me that if it is a loyalist, it will be Vulkan. As a massive fan of the Salamanders, I expect this to be what they do! But, it will probably be Fulgrim. I'm wondering what the fluff advancement will be like too.
I’m thinking GW isn’t going to do anything with Kill Team this edition. I figure we will get a couple WD articles when new Space Marine units come out so people can use them, and then at the end of the year will get a poorly edited Annual and that’s about all the support the game will get until it dies. They haven’t done anything with it since Elites, and I don’t think they are strongly motivated to, as it sells fine.
I think a lot of people who were working on it got pulled to go work on Warcry, which makes sense as the rules system is much less clunky and in general it’s just a better game. Now if they could make a rule set that elegant for 40k skirmish (or hell even port over Necro rules) we would be in a great spot.
Sabotage! wrote: I’m thinking GW isn’t going to do anything with Kill Team this edition. I figure we will get a couple WD articles when new Space Marine units come out so people can use them, and then at the end of the year will get a poorly edited Annual and that’s about all the support the game will get until it dies. They haven’t done anything with it since Elites, and I don’t think they are strongly motivated to, as it sells fine.
I think a lot of people who were working on it got pulled to go work on Warcry, which makes sense as the rules system is much less clunky and in general it’s just a better game. Now if they could make a rule set that elegant for 40k skirmish (or hell even port over Necro rules) we would be in a great spot.
Malika2 wrote: Hmm, isn't all this adding new stuff just to phase out the existing regular Space Marines?
They once again made a point of directly saying it isn't.
And...once again, you'd be an absolute fool to believe them. Old marines will be phased out, it just isn't going to happen in six months like some people predict.
1) They'll not get any new releases except the occasional character or named character. Example is the new librarian in terminator armour.
2) They'll slowly but surely get outclassed in the game to where points-wise and meta-wise you're better off with Primaris units.
3) In a while, and I mean...a long while, the kits will be retired. Many of the plastic kits are already 15-20+ years old, and while GW likes to let kits linger for up to 25 years, they simply won't be replacing them with new versions - ever.
This will happen, and to think otherwise is absolutely silly. However, GW isn't going to suddenly discontinue old marines overnight, and likely not for several years. Old marines will remain in the codex because millions of players around the world have them, and will have them for the foreseeable future.
Your old marines will be fine for another 10-15 years, easy...but it's likely their rules will continue to suck and they'll fade from the market and store slowly.
Are you aware the heresy sub-brand has immense financial leverage to exploit and next to no room for primaris to be shoehorned in?
Do keep in mind that that's Forgeworld territory. But even then it would mean that the regular Terminators, normal Tactical Marines, all the flyers, modern Rhinos and Land Raiders, those Space Marines wearing Space Marines (Centurions?), the old blocky Dreadnoughts, Scouts (to name a few) could be phased out. Of all the plastic kits of the original Space Marine line only the Horus Heresy kits have any relevance.
I think a lot of people who were working on it got pulled to go work on Warcry, which makes sense as the rules system is much less clunky and in general it’s just a better game. Now if they could make a rule set that elegant for 40k skirmish (or hell even port over Necro rules) we would be in a great spot.
Warcry better game than killteam? sorry not in this universe. (at least not at a competitive level)
The mechanics of activations and 2 actions ( copied from necromunda) its really great yes. The rest of the game is a meaningless dice roll, and no one has yet been able to do a balanced mission system.. while kill team already has several that work well.
If they collected information from tournaments like they do with 40k, and adjusted unit points, especially from elites the game would win even more
Sabotage! wrote: I’m thinking GW isn’t going to do anything with Kill Team this edition. I figure we will get a couple WD articles when new Space Marine units come out so people can use them, and then at the end of the year will get a poorly edited Annual and that’s about all the support the game will get until it dies. They haven’t done anything with it since Elites, and I don’t think they are strongly motivated to, as it sells fine.
I think a lot of people who were working on it got pulled to go work on Warcry, which makes sense as the rules system is much less clunky and in general it’s just a better game. Now if they could make a rule set that elegant for 40k skirmish (or hell even port over Necro rules) we would be in a great spot.
Sam aka Bottle was the lead on Warcry and I don't believe he worked on Kill Team (not to say others weren't moved over)
Malika2 wrote: But even then it would mean that ... Land Raiders... could be phased out.
The day that Marines are phased out in favour of Primaris, I think you'll find the Land Raider suddenly gets "upgraded" and can now suddenly carry Primaris Marines.
Malika2 wrote: But even then it would mean that ... Land Raiders... could be phased out.
The day that Marines are phased out in favour of Primaris, I think you'll find the Land Raider suddenly gets "upgraded" and can now suddenly carry Primaris Marines.
Why would they do that when they can introduce instead the Cawl Hover Raider with T9 and a 1+ save and can carry 15 Primaris. Oh and it's £80.
Malika2 wrote: But even then it would mean that ... Land Raiders... could be phased out.
The day that Marines are phased out in favour of Primaris, I think you'll find the Land Raider suddenly gets "upgraded" and can now suddenly carry Primaris Marines.
The Chapter organisation of the Silver Templars (Ultima Founding) already features Land Raiders, so presumably background-wise Primaris do actually fit in them compfortably.
Malika2 wrote: But even then it would mean that ... Land Raiders... could be phased out.
The day that Marines are phased out in favour of Primaris, I think you'll find the Land Raider suddenly gets "upgraded" and can now suddenly carry Primaris Marines.
Or they just upscale terminators and let then run in landraiders.
Anyway, the whole thing get really strange with Chaos Marines not beeing primarised, just upscaled. In my oppinion, GW has painted themself in to a corner, and the way they get out of it will leave a mess sooner or later.
Malika2 wrote: But even then it would mean that ... Land Raiders... could be phased out.
The day that Marines are phased out in favour of Primaris, I think you'll find the Land Raider suddenly gets "upgraded" and can now suddenly carry Primaris Marines.
Why would they do that when they can introduce instead the Cawl Hover Raider with T9 and a 1+ save and can carry 15 Primaris. Oh and it's £80.
now you are just being silly, it won't be that cheap.
I do expect a lot of "on a result of a '1'" and the same for a '6' to become a natural one and six, as with the Ork Codex - suspect thats what was intended in the first place but someone was having a bad day and they have run with it
Well, the land raider could do with an update in all honesty, it is starting to look tired now compared to other big kits in terms of detail etc.
Not saying this should be done soon for all the xenos players out there who want to cry at the suggestion, but it is a tired kit. It's 20 years old now.
I want it still to be tracked when they finally get around to doing it, like I want terminators to have storm/combi bolters and power fists as the main armament when they get round to doing that also.
It would be a shame for the rhino to go, but since that is in sisters of battle it wouldn't be dead and would live on there, the impulsors and repulsers can live on as the new rhino and predators, but I don't want a land raider to be grav, it must be tracked, just for nostalgia reasons more than anything. They can still be perpetuated as some ageing relics from the heresy, with most been 10,000 years old then as well.
I mean, I fully expect there to be only 2 wound marine model rules in the game in a few years. So I will be able to use my older marine models as primaris because they'll be the only kind of marine with rules and unless GW is going to start banning models that are a certain age, every space marine deployed from then on will effectively be a primaris marine because there won't be another profile to confuse them with.
The only reason I can see them keeping relic 1W marine units around is to deliberately make them suck, but keep their profile so it's harder for people to 'counts as' them as primaris marines....
Notice how you're not seeing classic Marines in promotional material. There's a reason for that
Notice how often the word 'Rubicon' is getting thrown around. There's a reason for that.
Notice how Fabius Bile has come back, and he's got his hands on some Primaris Marines already. There's a reason for that.
What it means- "Primaris" is just going to be referred to simply as a 'phase' in upgrading the Space Marine process to justify changing all Marines over (including Heretic Astartes). The 'Rubicon' is going to be the point referred to when this upgrade took place (As in "crossing the Rubicon"- passing the point of no return).
I'm fairly certain this is what will happen:
-You will not see any more 'original' Space Marines. Grognards will cry, even though they claim they haven't played since third edition.
-All Space Marines- tacticals, devastators, etc. will get a Primaris stat line (2 wounds, 2 attacks), Grognards will cry about balance even though they claim to not care about balance.
-You will still be able to use your old Space Marine models if you want, but Grognards will still cry because other people aren't using old Space Marine models.
-Rhinos will still be usable by scouts, and it's still a Sororitas vehicle so it won't phase out. Grognards will cry even though they were claiming Rhinos were useless a few weeks ago.
-Land Raiders will be capable of transporting Primaris Marines. Grognards will cry because that's just what they do when something happens.
I'm not gonna say you should take my word for it. Not gonna hurt my feelings if you choose not to believe some random dude on the internet, it makes sense.
I'll just say it like this- I'm a bit less worried about if this is going to happen, and more waiting to see the reaction for when it's announced.
If I were you, sometime around mid-June I'd take a look at that Legends list.
As there was talk about the primaris using the classic vehicles, one thing I really hope they change in the new edition is to allow the primaris to ride drop pods. That would make those new assault marines instantly more usable.
Crimson wrote: As there was talk about the primaris using the classic vehicles, one thing I really hope they change in the new edition is to allow the primaris to ride drop pops. That would make those new assault marines instantly more usable.
Yeah. For all the complaining people did about the lack of melee Primaris units, getting them into melee requires the big shoebox or the slightly smaller shoebox.
Crimson wrote: As there was talk about the primaris using the classic vehicles, one thing I really hope they change in the new edition is to allow the primaris to ride drop pops. That would make those new assault marines instantly more usable.
Yeah. For all the complaining people did about the lack of melee Primaris units, getting them into melee requires the big shoebox or the slightly smaller shoebox.
i fail to see how the shoeboxes would help if the shoebox carry rules especially the get out of them rules still suck about as they do now.
Not Online!!! wrote: i fail to see how the shoeboxes would help if the shoebox carry rules especially the get out of them rules still suck about as they do now.
They have to get out and do a head count, then make sure everyone brought their vroom-vroom cutters and stabby-stabs like they were told before they charge into a fight.
Malika2 wrote: But even then it would mean that ... Land Raiders... could be phased out.
The day that Marines are phased out in favour of Primaris, I think you'll find the Land Raider suddenly gets "upgraded" and can now suddenly carry Primaris Marines.
Why would they do that when they can introduce instead the Cawl Hover Raider with T9 and a 1+ save and can carry 15 Primaris. Oh and it's £80.
now you are just being silly, it won't be that cheap.
I do expect a lot of "on a result of a '1'" and the same for a '6' to become a natural one and six, as with the Ork Codex - suspect thats what was intended in the first place but someone was having a bad day and they have run with it
I thought so too. But after orks plenty codexes where that didn't happen. More of same effect bespoke does for which we have to thank meltaguns that works differently to another weapon named meltagun
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Well, the land raider could do with an update in all honesty, it is starting to look tired now compared to other big kits in terms of detail etc.
Not saying this should be done soon for all the xenos players out there who want to cry at the suggestion, but it is a tired kit. It's 20 years old now.
I want it still to be tracked when they finally get around to doing it, like I want terminators to have storm/combi bolters and power fists as the main armament when they get round to doing that also.
It would be a shame for the rhino to go, but since that is in sisters of battle it wouldn't be dead and would live on there, the impulsors and repulsers can live on as the new rhino and predators, but I don't want a land raider to be grav, it must be tracked, just for nostalgia reasons more than anything. They can still be perpetuated as some ageing relics from the heresy, with most been 10,000 years old then as well.
You want old school vehicles and termies? Just come over to the right side of the Great Rift.
Theoretically for secrets and easter eggs, of which there's exactly one (a Munitorum Armoured Container is in one the initial shots). Everything else they're just talking about things that are front and center in the shot, or showing a still because 'it looks cool.'
Also they just come out and say that the big Necron tripod guy is a Skorpekh Lord, a new HQ choice (rather than a elite slot dread).
Though they seem to think it has four arms rather than three, so...
Crimson wrote: As there was talk about the primaris using the classic vehicles, one thing I really hope they change in the new edition is to allow the primaris to ride drop pods. That would make those new assault marines instantly more usable.
Crimson wrote: As there was talk about the primaris using the classic vehicles, one thing I really hope they change in the new edition is to allow the primaris to ride drop pods. That would make those new assault marines instantly more usable.
Amen.
Especially as Black Templars too. Depends on cost of Drop Pods as usual though.
The issue with primaris and small marines is less about the marines themselves, but all the supporting units. Eliminating Tacs, Assault and Devs is no big deal, but eliminating Rhinos, Raiders, Dreads, Preds, Vindicators, Whirlwinds, Storm-fliers, drop pods, etc is a whole different ballgame.
I will gladly play with my old boys for as long as I can. I find the new Primaris vehicles to be hideous in comparison to the Land Raider and Rhino variants. I have yet to buy a single Repulsor or Impulsor for any of my marine lists (Dark Angels, Ravenguard, Deathwatch) just because I find them ugly. I'm sure I'll break down at some point to add them, but not sure when that will be. I'm finishing up my Dark Angels old marine force and then will break into a Primaris add on, my Ravenguard are moslty primaris but are infantry based (minus the Invictor warsuits), and my Deathwatch don't have any Primaris painted currently.
So by the bases of the new GW prizes, if we assume the mistery boxes will be the new start collecting, we are talking about a 120 pounds, 160€, 200$ starter for this edition.
From 95 pounds and 125€ for Dark Imperium thats a great increase. When boxes were more close to 100€ , they were palatable, very ease to split in half with somebody. When they are closer to 200€ it is much harder to do. Psychologically is hard to justify.
I think a lot of people who were working on it got pulled to go work on Warcry, which makes sense as the rules system is much less clunky and in general it’s just a better game. Now if they could make a rule set that elegant for 40k skirmish (or hell even port over Necro rules) we would be in a great spot.
Warcry better game than killteam? sorry not in this universe. (at least not at a competitive level)
The mechanics of activations and 2 actions ( copied from necromunda) its really great yes. The rest of the game is a meaningless dice roll, and no one has yet been able to do a balanced mission system.. while kill team already has several that work well.
If they collected information from tournaments like they do with 40k, and adjusted unit points, especially from elites the game would win even more
Are you talking about the "skirmish game" that often takes 1.5 hours to play because of the excessive amount of dice rolling and because both sides just line up in cover and shoot at each other with no one ever taking any real damage? Or the one where everyone argues how to resolve wounds from weapons that inflict multiple wounds? Or the one with a super messed up version of alternating activation? The one where most games the scenario doesn't even come into play? Yeah, no thanks.
Warcry and Necromunda aren't meant to be competitive games, but they are fluid and they are fun. When you roll dice, things happen. Movement matters. The short duration of Warcry games means if you don't play the scenario, and instead just focus on killing everyone, you will lose.
I'm not knocking anyone for wanting to play a competitive game, that can be fun too. But GW doesn't make good competitive games (barring Warhammer Underworlds). You'd be much better off looking into Infinity or even Warmachine if you want competitive games to play in tournaments.
Not to drag this too far off topic, but I think it's pretty clear Kill Team is on life support and has no plans of any significant future content. I think 9th edition bringing back Combat Patrol is even more evidence of this, especially as you will likely be able to play a game of combat patrol in the same amount of time as a game of Kill Team.
Do keep in mind that that's Forgeworld territory. But even then it would mean that the regular Terminators, normal Tactical Marines, all the flyers, modern Rhinos and Land Raiders, those Space Marines wearing Space Marines (Centurions?), the old blocky Dreadnoughts, Scouts (to name a few) could be phased out. Of all the plastic kits of the original Space Marine line only the Horus Heresy kits have any relevance.
A fair few of these kits are still used in the heresy. Only the centurions and and modern flyer models don't have rules. Even GW terminators and tactical marines can be used with simple removal of some of the aquillas and the like.
Agreed, the Primaris MEQ is bland compared to the vintage stuff. Vehicles arent that accurately scaled anyways, so why couldn't they keep most of the old ones in existence? Its not like you could have fit 10 vintage marines inside a rhino now was it
Malika2 wrote: But even then it would mean that ... Land Raiders... could be phased out.
The day that Marines are phased out in favour of Primaris, I think you'll find the Land Raider suddenly gets "upgraded" and can now suddenly carry Primaris Marines.
The Chapter organisation of the Silver Templars (Ultima Founding) already features Land Raiders, so presumably background-wise Primaris do actually fit in them compfortably.
I have never really understood why GW made it so Primaris couldn't ride in Land Raiders, at least the "normal" sized ones. I would have accepted if they said those in Gravis armor were banned. Terminators are larger than Intercessors and they can fit in. Heck, Custodes have Land Raiders and they fit in. Primaris? Nope. I think that that little change would have upped the value of both Primaris AND the Land Raider. Let's just face it, the Land Raider does need a boost.
On a side note, when 8th launched I made an all-Primaris force using almost nothing but Dark Vengeance Marines. One of the few exceptions was a Terminus Ultra, as it doesn't carry anyone anyway.
FWIW, I actually prefer the simpler return to vanilla primaris except for higher rank characters above Lieutenant. If you want to glam up your space Barbie (like I did!), you have the choice to do so but it's not required.
I was listening to a video on the Legion of the Damned and paired with Psychic Awakening I could see them coming back, with a damned version of Ferrus.
That or give us Rogal. A Primarch would actively need to try to die the way people claim he did. Suicide by heretic doesn't fit his character.
Malika2 wrote: But even then it would mean that ... Land Raiders... could be phased out.
The day that Marines are phased out in favour of Primaris, I think you'll find the Land Raider suddenly gets "upgraded" and can now suddenly carry Primaris Marines.
The Chapter organisation of the Silver Templars (Ultima Founding) already features Land Raiders, so presumably background-wise Primaris do actually fit in them compfortably.
I have never really understood why GW made it so Primaris couldn't ride in Land Raiders, at least the "normal" sized ones. I would have accepted if they said those in Gravis armor were banned. Terminators are larger than Intercessors and they can fit in. Heck, Custodes have Land Raiders and they fit in. Primaris? Nope. I think that that little change would have upped the value of both Primaris AND the Land Raider. Let's just face it, the Land Raider does need a boost.
On a side note, when 8th launched I made an all-Primaris force using almost nothing but Dark Vengeance Marines. One of the few exceptions was a Terminus Ultra, as it doesn't carry anyone anyway.
Do you know how obnoxious the Manlet Marine defenders would be about squatting if Primaris were allowed the regular transports?
As I said, and he says, it’s just an informed guess.
I’m in two minds. £120 is a fair chunk of bread, no denying it, and no point in denying it. That I can afford it doesn’t matter here.
But.
Big but, like the sort Sir Mix A Lot serenaded us about....
If the two pics we’ve seen are indeed the contents? It seems more than we usually get in starter sets. If that’s right, that’s an important lens to view the price through.
No it doesn’t lower the price, or make it more affordable. But it would be a reminder that a higher price doesn’t necessarily means lower value.
I mean, the Intercessor Assaulr Squad would likely retail for the same as an Intercessor squad. Or £35. So that alone is a little over 25% of the cost.
Necron Warriors? Box seems to contain 20. They’re currently £22.50 for 10. Let’s say in the region of £45 (could be higher, could be lower. But I’m assuming the same, as you can see)
So already, that’s a retail of £80.00, leaving £40.99
Necrons then get what looks to be three Characters, possibly 4, a squad of the HTH Destroyers, and that glorious four legged tol boi.
Marines? 3 Bikes, Lt and 4 Bladeguard, 3 Bikes, Little Jimmy Head Chopper and a Chaplain.
So there’s a decent chunk of stuff in the box. So whilst the cost has almost certainly gone up, possibly to £120.00, I’m not entirely sure the overall value has gone down?
Kanluwen wrote: Wouldn't be shocked if there's 'Warscroll Card' styled things in there as well.
I'm not going to lie: I'd personally like something like this.
As long as they're in a somewhat reasonable 'card' size, at least. FFS I can't stand the way GW sizes all their cards because I sleeve every damned card I can.
Looking at you, Necromunda cards... and those card sleeves that were available for like a month.
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Do you know how obnoxious the Manlet Marine defenders would be about squatting if Primaris were allowed the regular transports?
You're talking about grognards that cry about every new release or change and freak out on the internet over it, but they also claim they haven't played since 3rd Edition was done. I think the worst thing we do is indulge them by letting them believe that their bellowing and whinging has worth.
Kanluwen wrote: Wouldn't be shocked if there's 'Warscroll Card' styled things in there as well.
I'm not going to lie: I'd personally like something like this.
As long as they're in a somewhat reasonable 'card' size, at least. FFS I can't stand the way GW sizes all their cards because I sleeve every damned card I can.
Looking at you, Necromunda cards... and those card sleeves that were available for like a month.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Do you know how obnoxious the Manlet Marine defenders would be about squatting if Primaris were allowed the regular transports?
You're talking about grognards that cry about every new release or change and freak out on the internet over it, but they also claim they haven't played since 3rd Edition was done. I think the worst thing we do is indulge them by letting them believe that their bellowing and whinging has worth.
Yeah I remember the Centurion freakout. They weren't even the most offending model visually and were easily modified to look better. I blame people that get their opinions from 1d4chan since they're basically the Fox News/MSNBC of 40k info.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Yeah I remember the Centurion freakout. They weren't even the most offending model visually and were easily modified to look better. I blame people that get their opinions from 1d4chan since they're basically the Fox News/MSNBC of 40k info.
You have always seemed like a person with a decent head on your shoulders, so I'm sure you won't be shocked at these things:
-A lot of people have opinions on 40k stuff that are basically 'meme' opinions. Very few of them actually play 40k, in fact- I'd wager that a huge chunk of this very site doesn't actually play the game, at best they own (or have pirated) a Codex.
-A lot of people just look at a Codex and do what I call 'Speculative Wargaming'. It's even worse with Necromunda, because based on the complaints about certain things I can tell exactly who's played an actual campaign and who's read the rulebook at home by themselves and just speculated.
-Out of the people that actually DO play the game, you could double the time they spend playing, building, painting, and learning their army and it wouldn't equal the amount of time they spend whining about it on the internet.
So you agree they're not being phased out
