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Platuan4th wrote:I never said they were real Arbites, I said we'd seen the rules they're going to have. Mkoll(and other sources) have already said that the shotties are only in the plastic Storm Trooper kit because Witch Hunter "Arbite" Stormies can get Shotguns. Trust me, I know what real Arbites are like.

Tru dat. I've come to accept the fact that GW has abandoned any real use for Arbites - my life is happier because of it.

I wonder if the Salamander won't hold up to 10 men to leave space for the advisors you can take with your command squad.

Has anyone had any luck recently with scouting sentinels getting side armor shots on enemy tanks? If put together solidly, I could see an IG list really forcing enemy armor to stay close to the center and far back to avoid that turn 2-3 flank move. Unless sentinels get competition from undercosted heavy weapon units I suppose.

Either way, I need to start saving some scratch for this new army. The IRS really executed some well placed auto penetrating attacks on my behind...

I definitely forsee myself getting a LOT more armor after this book comes out. Yeah, I'll be picking up 4 new command squads and a couple of recut infantry squads, but that will mostly be just to totally plastic-ize my IG forces. Almost everything else I'll be getting is tanks and sentinels.

I'm holding out judgement on the Ogryns until some finalized rules are leaked.

All-in-all, I just can't wait until May!

I have had luck w/ Scouting Sentinels...but I am not going to lie. I have only used them at 1k, and 2 of em do alright for me. No real complaints....

And I think the book is lending itself to just that Scotty. More armour...that's what people love, and what GW knows will/should sell well. I too must add more thanks now that I have 150+ IG guys running around, begging to be painted. Ogryns.....I don't know. I do rather like the newer models they have for them but do not know if they will make the cut for my army even if they do get a nice boost

I can't wait to see the actual contents of the Cadian command sprues, if there's a swagger stick and fancy officer armour included I will have to use them and create a fancy commanding Baneblade commander.

Scottywan82 wrote:I definitely forsee myself getting a LOT more armor after this book comes out. Yeah, I'll be picking up 4 new command squads and a couple of recut infantry squads, but that will mostly be just to totally plastic-ize my IG forces. Almost everything else I'll be getting is tanks and sentinels.

I'm holding out judgement on the Ogryns until some finalized rules are leaked.

All-in-all, I just can't wait until May!

I think that H.B.M.C. is the only one of us not getting more tanks.

I think that GW may have addressed the KP fix and you guys just missed it. Among the listed HQ choices there is one tiny little name that under a new ruleset could easily make KP's moot and his presence manditory. Creed, Ursakar E. Creed.

Okay, kids - more responses from Mkoll to Dakka's questions over on Boot Camp:

To answer some more of Dakka Dakka's members questions here we go.

1) The weapon costs are roughly balanced. Grenade Launchers and Flamers are both 5 Points while the Melta is 10 and sadly yes the Plasma is 15(Fluffwise Guard regiments often lack these weapons) The Heavy Weapons weigh in at Heavy Bolter and Stubber at 5, Mortar and Autocannon and Missile Launcher at 10 and Lascannon at 15.

2) The Arbite Riot Teams have no rules in the IG codex, as such I cannot comment on what they will entail sorry. All I am told is there will a boxset for them. I think it will be the Storm Trooper box with extra bits but as I posted in my release I am not for sure on it, they could be separate.

3) When I say less Kasrkin more Imperium I mean just that. They do not have the Cadian look and Armour style and have some throwbacks to the Special Forces of 3rd Edition. However that is just 1 of the greens I have seen.

4) In my list the Valk does indeed take up a FA slot always, however I know that isn't quite right and I think that the idea that Storm Troopers will get them as Transport options is likely. However normal guard getting them as an option seems very slim.

5) The amount of releases. As those who play various GW games and armies may know GW works on a wave release system. Often a new army will only have an initial release and then another one. However some armies(Empire, Orcs and Dwarves WFB being the main and the Orks in 40K)have had several. This seems to be how the guard will work out. Please note the Planet Strike will give all armies a few new toys and thus be a full out release not a guard wave. This leaves us with 2(including initial) or 3 max, which doesn't seem to bad at all.

6) The Salamander cannot hold men, however it has been talked about giving it a 5 man hold to allow a Command Squad to use it more. The option for it currently is to add some cheap fire support to your squad and protect them. I think that a transport option is likely though.

7) Yes Armour seems to be the focus of the new codex. While Infantry will be very useful(provided Kill Points is fixed)GW is screaming buy or armour it is cool! I am not sure what this will lead to in the final product(maybe all those Spanish Tanks will make it.....)but Infantry is to me still the backbone of an IG army.

Hmmm those point costings are good. I am liking the sound of it.

Well, it's a good thing I hardly have any plasmas then. Guess I'll just use more flamers and meltas instead.

Personally I hope they do what they got right in the Ork Codex. The army should be able to win using it's background tactics. If they do this I will be happy.

Mkoll, if you're out there, thank you for all this work!

Lucky you BrookeM! I happen to have about 15 metal plasma dudes and I greatly enjoy watching them blow themselves up! Upping the price on plasma guns held by models with a 5+ save kinda makes me mad. They are balanced out cost wise because they never seem to make their Gets Hot save. I can't help myself from getting started on the logic behind the 'Fluffwise, IG don't typically have alot of plasma' argument because their is so much variation in the naure of IG! I have LR's with plasma turrets for sake! If there is a squad in my army that dosen't have a plasma gun in it it's only because they rock the meltaguns! Why should my army be defined as low-tech AND the most variable force in known existence?

Death By Monkeys wrote:1) The weapon costs are roughly balanced. Grenade Launchers and Flamers are both 5 Points while the Melta is 10 and sadly yes the Plasma is 15(Fluffwise Guard regiments often lack these weapons) The Heavy Weapons weigh in at Heavy Bolter and Stubber at 5, Mortar and Autocannon and Missile Launcher at 10 and Lascannon at 15.

Wait, what? Heavy Stubber?

Because those warrior eunuchs are the favourites of the Imperium and much like any favoured child, get the best stuff. Thus leaving the leftovers for the rest of the family.

Screw those posers, we got the tanks.

Part of this is junk. A heavy stubber would not cost the same as a heavy bolter. Not unless it's "assault 3" instead of heavy 3.

Am I incorrect or are lascannons, HB's, and missile launchers going down in price?

My one question to MKoll would be: What does the Vulture and Valkyrie cost point wise?? The same as in the Forge World books? Less? More? That's the main think on my mind.

Thanks,
Chappy P!

15 pts for a Plasma Gun?

On a BS4 T4 Sv3+ Marine that fights up close, 15 pt Plasma makes sense. But on a BS3 T3 Sv5+ Guardsman? No way. That's slowed.

___

Janthkin wrote:If the delta between las/plas and ML/GL gets high enough, we'll all end up playing Mauleed-pattern IG. *sigh* I don't own that many Steel Legion MLs, and never did have any for my Mordian/Praetorian coalition.

I'm pretty much all MLs already, and I just picked up some Mortars, so I'll be OK. What I worry about is Las/ML becoming too high relative to the squad base itself. And if Plasma/Melta also becomes prohibitive, that's going to be a real problem.

At that point, I have no real need for Guardsmen except as Scoring bodies. So full-Mech, never open the hatch, never disembark. Lame.
____

Chimera_Calvin wrote:So, Valks take up a F/A slot rather than being a transport option and Vultures (if IG get them) also take up a F/A slot.

So Elysians are out of the question, then...

I think Command HQ and Storms could have Valks as Transport options, but I wouldn't expect it for anyone else.

Elysians should probably move to become Stormtroopers rather than ordinary Guardsmen.
____

Scottywan82 wrote:I definitely forsee myself getting a LOT more armor after this book comes out.

All-in-all, I just can't wait until May!

As I already have plenty of armor, I probably won't be getting much more - just enough to finish a Basilisk Battery for Apoc. If the Medusa appears, I might add one of those, too.

But I tell you this: 15-pt Plasma is cooling my enthusiasm for the new book.

____

BrookM wrote:Well, it's a good thing I hardly have any plasmas then. Guess I'll just use more flamers and meltas instead.

I have about a dozen Plasma, and they're non-convertible metal models.

Elysians should become storm troopers?

Oh no no no no..

Elysians are just regular Guardsmen that fall from the sky, nothing elite about them. I'd say read up IA3 but hardly anybody wants to shelf out money for that one..

Death By Monkeys wrote:1) The weapon costs are roughly balanced. Grenade Launchers and Flamers are both 5 Points while the Melta is 10 and sadly yes the Plasma is 15(Fluffwise Guard regiments often lack these weapons) The Heavy Weapons weigh in at Heavy Bolter and Stubber at 5, Mortar and Autocannon and Missile Launcher at 10 and Lascannon at 15.

.

Points are almost spot on to what I guessed they would be, though I actually had the stubber in the special section, there is absolutly no reason to take a stubber over a heavy bolter unless they make it more shots. like heavy 6, or 2 of them for 5 points .

The increase in price for plasma is a little surprising, BS 3 and 5+ save means they kill themselves alot compared to a marine, but its really a non issue with the fact a normal squad of guardmen is 40 points now instead of 60. Auto cannons and missle launchers are 10 points so a 5 point drop from now ( a good call on the missle launcher), I had the Las-cannon at 20 points , but 15 is even better and is actually a 10 point drop. I know my favored squad set up currently is the ten guys (60) plasma (10) and an auto cannon (15)- so that squad is 85 points, the same set up under the new suspected costs is only 65, thats 20 points off the cost.

I think the 5 point Grenade launcher is fair( if only the krak shot was ap3 , or the whole thing was assault 2), as is the 10 point melta ( maybe, the range makes it iffy at 10 points), but I honestly feel with guard they should of just given them a flamer for free, low armor 1 attack troops aren't going to really do much with a flamer really. A single mortar is a squad is kinda pants for 10 points really should be only 5 as it competes well with a bs3 heavy bolter , not so much agianst a bs3 auto cannon of missle launcher.

Now if we use the current book as a guide( might not be a good idea considering the marine changes) all the weapons were the same price every where.
that means the heavy weapons squads with 3 las cannons will only be 85 points ( 10 guys even) the current version is 110 and only 6 guys. This means the special weapon squads will be even nicer, 70 points for a squad with 3 meltas, well plus the 55 to 65 points for the chimera ( which is also a 30 some points savings).

The big question I have is if the platoon officer squads and the company officer squads will still be able to take heavy weapons, I kinda like my little 5 man las-cannon teams, or as my group calls them, " The commanders sniper rifle".

I'm pleased w/ the point cost for the weapons and yes I do run plasma in a lot of my squads. Sure the extra 5 points isn't that great but almost every other weapon got cheaper! What isn't to love about that?!?! 5 points more for PG - 2 point drop in IG cost = your still doing better than what we had. i'll take it w/ a smile

If the Mortar is getting considerably better, then 10 pts is fair.

Death By Monkeys wrote:sadly yes the Plasma is 15(Fluffwise Guard regiments often lack these weapons)

Mother fker.

Although I usually don't use expressions like this, if true, this will truly be an EPIC FAIL on GW's part. I have always said that if something is rare, then you make it rare. You don't just make it more expensive. Expensive does not equal rare. Expensive just equals expensive.

The Plasma Gun is not worth 15 points on a BS3 model with a 5+ save. It just isn't. How can you pay the same cost for a Plasma Gun that you do on a fing Marine! It's absurd.

And as people said, if the Stubber and the HB are the same as they are now, and both cost 5 points, then there's no point in bringing the Stubber. Why would you pay the same cost for a gun with less Strength and less AP? It has to be Assault 3 to be worthwhile.

2) The Arbite Riot Teams have no rules in the IG codex, as such I cannot comment on what they will entail sorry. All I am told is there will a boxset for them. I think it will be the Storm Trooper box with extra bits but as I posted in my release I am not for sure on it, they could be separate.

This whole plastic Arbite thing doesn't ring true to me at all. Why would GW release a plastic kit which is basically just an alternative set of weapons for a single choice in a single Codex when they could just include shotguns in the plastic stormy kit and be done with it?

Death By Monkeys wrote:3) When I say less Kasrkin more Imperium I mean just that. They do not have the Cadian look and Armour style and have some throwbacks to the Special Forces of 3rd Edition. However that is just 1 of the greens I have seen.

Which is sad as the Kasrkin are such lovely models. My only thought is that they'll keep Kasrkin on sale at the same time as the new plastic Stormies.

4) In my list the Valk does indeed take up a FA slot always, however I know that isn't quite right and I think that the idea that Storm Troopers will get them as Transport options is likely. However normal guard getting them as an option seems very slim.

You mean there isn't a Captain Thor Norse special character (due Q3 2028, Wave 11.2) who allows you to take a 'Flight of the Valkyries' army where Guard squads can take Valks as standard?

This leaves us with 2(including initial) or 3 max, which doesn't seem to bad at all.

Which would be fine if they were doing it in a way that made sense. I have supported this wave idea since day one as I think it's a good way of maintaining interest and ensuring that all the new releases for an army aren't dumped on new players in the space of a month leaving them with nothing new for 4 years (or longer). But the way GW is going about it is just horrible:

1. We don't know when a wave is coming until a month or so before it hits.
2. We don't know what will ever be in a wave until a month or so before it hits.
3. We don't know if anything left out of a second wave (looking at Ork Buggies and Flash Gitz as examples) will ever be made.

It's one thing to stagger releases to keep interest up. It's another to keep players in the dark about whether you're even going to make a miniature for a Codex entry or not. I'd take a 5 year drought of releases and support to ensure that we got everything in the Codex upon release and in one go than a more balanced approach to releases where we never know what's going on.

6) The Salamander cannot hold men, however it has been talked about giving it a 5 man hold to allow a Command Squad to use it more. The option for it currently is to add some cheap fire support to your squad and protect them. I think that a transport option is likely though.

I hope it does get a transport option for the Command Squad.

7) Yes Armour seems to be the focus of the new codex.

Which just makes the lack of armour releases in the first wave all the more perplexing, unless it's a cynical way for GW to clear old stock while people scramble to buy new tanks only for them to release shiny new re-cut kits with new turret and artillery options in Waves 4, 8, 11 and 42.

BYE

JohnHwangDD wrote:If the Mortar is getting considerably better, then 10 pts is fair.

S5 AP5 Ignores Cover Saves would be a great start.

But it won't.

BYE

*gasp*, our heavy weapons might actually cost what they should.

I like what I'm hearing.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
And as people said, if the Stubber and the HB are the same as they are now, and both cost 5 points, then there's no point in bringing the Stubber. Why would you pay the same cost for a gun with less Strength and less AP? It has to be Assault 3 to be worthwhile.

Aside from allowing LatD players from having it here to allow them to use their armies, my thought is there maybe more to it. Maybe platoons with infiltrating or scout can only take certain heavy weapons.

The heavy stubber might be twin-linked? Isn't it twin-linked in the Death Korps list?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Well if priced as rumored the las plas combo just dropped a net 5 points plus any cost of troopers. Thats not bad.

Absent a confirm, the stubber may be an assault weapon. Inverely it might be classed as a special weapon such that a squad could be outfitted with both HB and stubber. Just thinking out loud here.

If the HS is "Heavy", then it needs to be twin-linked to be at all useful.

But really, the HS should be a 5-pt Special Weapon so you can throw 6 shots downrange.

Ozymandias wrote:The heavy stubber might be twin-linked? Isn't it twin-linked in the Death Korps list?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Yes, on their army list (siege army) it costs 10 pts.